Live Video: Obama’s Statement on Libya
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[Video removed…]
I was hoping for something stronger, but Obama simply issued a standard boilerplate call for Libya to refrain from violence against its citizens.
234 comments
1 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:08:03pm |
"bloodshed and violence is outrageous"
"violence must stop"
talking the talk...but what's next?
| 2 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:09:28pm |
MY guess is sanctions. We were waiting to get the Americans out before we said anything.
| 4 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:10:44pm |
"intensify our consultations with our allies"
That doesn't sound like it will register w/ the good colonel.
| 7 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:11:41pm |
I missed the first few minutes. Did he call for gaddafi to step down or just for the violence to stop?
| 9 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:12:31pm |
He's not bombing Libya! He's not frogmarching Gaddafi! Obama's apologizing! I'm outraged!
///
| 10 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:12:41pm |
re: #6 BishopX
Hmmm, no mention of Bahrain.
It only took a week to say something about Libya, I'm sure bahrain is next. Maybe in April.
| 11 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:12:41pm |
re: #7 RogueOne
He called for an end to the violence, no mention of the Colonel.
| 12 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:12:53pm |
That's it. Well, it won't make the armchair presidents happy since he didn't call for Gaddafi to step down. That seems to be the latest outrage/meme.
| 13 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:13:03pm |
re: #7 RogueOne
I missed the first few minutes. Did he call for gaddafi to step down or just for the violence to stop?
he said that the libyan government has a responsibility to not use violence. Nothing committal like "step down."
| 14 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:13:27pm |
re: #11 BishopX
He called for an end to the violence, no mention of the Colonel.
Well that's nice. Way to take a stand!
| 15 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:13:36pm |
re: #12 Gus 802
That's it. Well, it won't make the armchair presidents happy since he didn't call for Gaddafi to step down. That seems to be the latest outrage/meme.
Hasn't the U.S. essentially been on permanent call for Ghadaffi to step down since, I dunno, the eighties at least?
| 17 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:14:00pm |
Not much to see here. I was hoping for something stronger, but this was just a boilerplate call for Libya to respect the rights of the people and refrain from violence.
| 18 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:14:13pm |
| 19 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:14:20pm |
re: #12 Gus 802
That's it. Well, it won't make the armchair presidents happy since he didn't call for Gaddafi to step down. That seems to be the latest outrage/meme.
Yeah, gotta love it. They wanted him to cover Mubarak's ass, but fry Gaddafi's. Else they might not vote for him in '12!
My eyes roll any faster, they're gonna pop out of my skull.
| 20 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:14:37pm |
re: #14 RogueOne
Well that's nice. Way to take a stand!
And if he'd taken a stand, you'd be bashing him for that, too. You know it's true.
| 21 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:15:13pm |
re: #19 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, gotta love it. They wanted him to cover Mubarak's ass, but fry Gaddafi's. Else they might not vote for him in '12!
My eyes roll any faster, they're gonna pop out of my skull.
They're so smart aren't they? Always one step ahead of the president.
/
| 22 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:15:42pm |
re: #16 Gus 802
But Ronald Reagan would have...
/
Well, Reagan BOMBED Ghadaffi.
Now, who was the guy who challenged Ghadaffi to a one-on-one fight to the death in the Gulf of Aqaba at high noon on the Fourth of July? Some Republican congressman from Texas?
| 23 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:15:51pm |
This is a really intersting time for US foreign policy.
Monroe Doctrine-->Roosevelt Corollary-->Bush Doctrine.
Now the world is changing faster and on a larger scale than we could imagine. I don't know that we have the capability to assess how this acutely impacts our security, nor that we have the ability to act on any perceived threats. Its a bit scary.
| 24 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:16:32pm |
The thing I don't understand about guys like Kqadhahphee is why they try to hold on when the shit hits the fan. I'm sure a guy who's been a dictator for 40 years has plundered the country's wealth significantly, and probably has at least one exquisite Swiss bank account and a few plausible places to retire to.
| 25 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:16:35pm |
re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Reagan BOMBED Ghadaffi.
True, but only after direct terrorist actions against American citizens.
| 26 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:16:37pm |
So horribly off topic, so early too, and I am sorry to distract from Libya, but this is EXTREMELY important:
A confidential new report prepared by Goldman Sachs for its clients says spending cuts passed by the House of Representatives last week would be a drag on the economy, cutting economic growth by about two percent of GDP.
“Under the House passed spending bill [which cut spending by $61 billion],” says the report, which was obtained by ABC News, “the drag on GDP growth from federal fiscal policy would increase by 1.5pp to 2pp in Q2 and Q3 compared with current law.”
So, why are the Republicans pushing an economic policy that would almost force the US into a double dip recession? After all, they'd never do something for political gain, even if it screwed the economy over.
right? right?!?
| 27 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:16:40pm |
re: #20 Charles
And if he'd taken a stand, you'd be bashing him for that, too. You know it's true.
They're gonna bash him regardless. Why? Because he's got the audacity to be a Democrat and president.
| 28 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:16:57pm |
re: #20 Charles
And if he'd taken a stand, you'd be bashing him for that, too. You know it's true.
I've been railing against his refusal to take a stand since the Iranian elections. I gave him better marks on Egypt but still wanted him to come out and take a stand. I don't see why it's hard for our government to say "we don't like dictators and want them to go away".
| 29 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:17:47pm |
re: #27 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
They're gonna bash him regardless. Why? Because he's got the audacity to be a
Democratand president.
You misspelled "black"
| 30 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:18:21pm |
re: #26 bloodstar
So horribly off topic, so early too, and I am sorry to distract from Libya, but this is EXTREMELY important:
So, why are the Republicans pushing an economic policy that would almost force the US into a double dip recession? After all, they'd never do something for political gain, even if it screwed the economy over.
right? right?!?
Why? Because ideology trumps all. Ronaldus Maximus did it, it "worked," so damnit they're gonna do it too!
| 31 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:18:22pm |
re: #25 Charles
True, but only after direct terrorist actions against American citizens.
True, that.
| 32 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:18:24pm |
re: #24 negativ
The thing I don't understand about guys like Kqadhahphee is why they try to hold on when the shit hits the fan. I'm sure a guy who's been a dictator for 40 years has plundered the country's wealth significantly, and probably has at least one exquisite Swiss bank account and a few plausible places to retire to.
Because while absolute power corrupts absolutely, it also absolutely rocks!//kinda//
| 33 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:19:46pm |
re: #22 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Reagan BOMBED Ghadaffi.
Umm, He MISSED!!//
| 34 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:19:49pm |
re: #29 eastsider
You misspelled "black"
The man's skin color is a minor item compared to being a Democrat. The Right was all for Powell running back in '00, and for Condi running in '08.
| 35 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:20:14pm |
Curious what the lizards think: at what point (if any) does the US have a responsibility to step in with troops? What if we see a genocide unfolding?
| 36 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:20:59pm |
re: #14 RogueOne
Well that's nice. Way to take a stand!
I think we need to get out citizens out safely first. Can you imagine if we had a few 100 US hostages to deal with.
| 37 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:21:08pm |
re: #35 eastsider
Curious what the lizards think: at what point (if any) does the US have a responsibility to step in with troops? What if we see a genocide unfolding?
Considering our inaction in Darfur, that point would be never. Unless they are white Europeans killing each other.//
| 38 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:21:23pm |
re: #28 RogueOne
I've been railing against his refusal to take a stand since the Iranian elections.
You've been railing against everything Obama does since he was elected.
| 39 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:21:43pm |
re: #28 RogueOne
I've been railing against his refusal to take a stand since the Iranian elections. I gave him better marks on Egypt but still wanted him to come out and take a stand. I don't see why it's hard for our government to say "we don't like dictators and want them to go away".
You know I'm glad the President waits a week to comment on things happening in other countries...even though he has issued statements this week...because after the Bush Doctrine I appreciate a break on constantly stepping into other countries shit so it looks like our dick is the biggest in the world.
Really I care, but short of going in there and taking him out what can we do besides work behind the scenes?
| 40 |
_RememberTonyC Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:21:52pm |
I was in the UK last week visiting my son, who is studying in London. And I must say that the media in England has offered much better context in its coverage of the Libya story than the US media.
There is something about how these vicious Arab dictators treat their own people that should be a lesson not lost on the Palestinians. On it's worst day, Israel never treated the Palestinians as badly as khadafy is treating the Libyans. If they could allow themselves to see reality instead of buying the anti Jewish bullshit fed them by the likes of khadafy, the Palestinian Arabs might actually realize that Israel is potentially a far better neighbor than some of their own "brothers."
| 41 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:21:59pm |
If Obama called for Gaddafi to step down and it suddenly resulted in an escalation in violence he would be blamed for it. It would also be seen as US meddling by the people of the Middle East regardless of its perceived and theoretical support.
It should be noted that not all State Department and White House pronouncements are not made public.
Right now the usual suspects are whining, complaining, that Obama did not mention Gaddafi's name.
| 42 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:22:23pm |
re: #36 avanti
I think we need to get out citizens out safely first. Can you imagine if we had a few 100 US hostages to deal with.
I was under the impression all official US personnel are already out.
| 43 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:22:59pm |
re: #35 eastsider
Curious what the lizards think: at what point (if any) does the US have a responsibility to step in with troops? What if we see a genocide unfolding?
Why is it always our responsibility, and nobody else's? The US isn't made of money and disposable resources.
Sure, it would be nice if we had infinite troops and money to just play global superhero state for awhile, but we just can't do it. We don't have the money for this shit any more.
| 44 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:23:00pm |
I was hoping for something stronger, but Obama simply issued a standard boilerplate call for Libya to refrain from violence against its citizens.
Rock/ Hard Place
Can't come across as too aggressive,, can't ignore whats happening
Classic no win
| 45 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:23:31pm |
I think he didn't mention Gaddfi or stepping down on purpose because of the man himself. We all know G is nutz and a meglomanic who in his last speech railed over and over about defying the US and other powers as part of 'their' revolution. G makes the whole thing about him and him only.
The line of strategy I'm seeing is to not make it about him directly because that is exactly wants. He would love to have the latest US pres telling him what to do and then using that for even more crazy behavior. Also by not talking about him directly the admin is talking to him. You don't matter enough to talk about you directly.
We're dealing with a narcacissts psychotic personality here. One of the things that feeds these people is attention. G is probably pissed that Obama didn't name him.
| 46 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:24:00pm |
Beck just said Obama was willing to pull out the middle east's keystone to security in Egypt, now he's sitting back. Why ? Some evil plan will be revealed after the break./
| 47 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:24:24pm |
re: #39 webevintage
I in this case I'm really okay with the president being slow to speak. He was waiting to evacuate US personnel. Gaddafi is crazy enough to retaliate against Obama by killing/imprisoning US personnel.
This isn't like Egypt, were we had good relations with the regime, we don't have nearly as much space to walk the talk we're talking.
| 48 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:24:29pm |
And realistically speaking a man that is willing to bomb and shoot his own people would not listen to a call for him to step down from President Obama. Therefore that would make such a call rather self-serving.
| 49 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:24:52pm |
re: #38 Charles
You've been railing against everything Obama does since he was elected.
You said yourself you were hoping for something stronger. I agree but I've been at that point since the Iranian election riots.
| 50 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:25:33pm |
re: #45 Jadespring
We all know G is nutz and a meglomanic who in his last speech railed over and over about defying the US and other powers as part of 'their' revolution.
Was listening to a panel discussion very early this morning on one of the Al Jazeera satellite channels and most of the me participants on the panel were blaming "the west" in one way or another for the plight of Libya right now
| 51 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:25:39pm |
re: #43 Fozzie Bear
Why is it always our responsibility, and nobody else's? The US isn't made of money and disposable resources.
Sure, it would be nice if we had infinite troops and money to just play global superhero state for awhile, but we just can't do it. We don't have the money for this shit any more.
Its been our de-facto responsibility as the sole superpower for the last 20+ years. Not saying that that is "right," or that we've acted on every occasion of psychos murdering their own people, just that when shit like this goes down, we're the ones people look to for any possible action.
I asked the question because the rules/precedents on when we act seem a bit contradictory.
And that I wouldn't want to be the state department staffer figuring out US security strategy in dealing with nascent Arab democracies.
| 52 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:26:17pm |
re: #35 eastsider
Curious what the lizards think: at what point (if any) does the US have a responsibility to step in with troops? What if we see a genocide unfolding?
Back on topic.
Just from a purely layperson view....
We do have resources and assets in rage, particularly if we have NATO help, to make a pretty decent impact on Libya's air and naval capacity. BUT, we really don't have the capacity to get boots on the ground to stop the rampage of mercenaries through the streets. We're already stretched to the breaking point with our Army/Marines.
We can balance the fight, but we can't go in and win the fight or stop the carnage. And would it be worth it to go in? or would we end up creating more problems than we solve by America being perceived as throwing her weight around... again. (our intentions can be good, but if people take it the wrong way, we still take the hit)
| 53 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:26:41pm |
re: #47 BishopX
I in this case I'm really okay with the president being slow to speak. He was waiting to evacuate US personnel. Gaddafi is crazy enough to retaliate against Obama by killing/imprisoning US personnel.
This isn't like Egypt, were we had good relations with the regime, we don't have nearly as much space to walk the talk we're talking.
Yes there is that too. Right now there's still a lot of people that need to get out. That is a priority.
| 54 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:27:04pm |
re: #42 RogueOne
I was under the impression all official US personnel are already out.
Maybe, but several 100 US are left, and 100's more with dual citizenship that want out.
| 55 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:27:54pm |
re: #52 bloodstar
Back on topic.
Just from a purely layperson view...
We do have resources and assets in rage, particularly if we have NATO help, to make a pretty decent impact on Libya's air and naval capacity. BUT, we really don't have the capacity to get boots on the ground to stop the rampage of mercenaries through the streets. We're already stretched to the breaking point with our Army/Marines.We can balance the fight, but we can't go in and win the fight or stop the carnage. And would it be worth it to go in? or would we end up creating more problems than we solve by America being perceived as throwing her weight around... again. (our intentions can be good, but if people take it the wrong way, we still take the hit)
If there is any sort of 'going in' it will and should be done multilaterally.
| 56 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:28:06pm |
| 57 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:28:06pm |
the less said, the better...
BO has done exactly the right thing. first Egypt and now Libya...he doesn't need to ask Mo to step down...
| 58 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:28:22pm |
So the difference between Iran and Lybia and Egypt is that we were actual supporters of the Egyptian regime and so had some pull, but with Iran or Libya we've got nothing and could make things more dangerous by calling anyone out.
| 60 |
zora Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:29:19pm |
re: #28 RogueOne
because we like some dictators some of the time, just not all dictators all of the time.
| 61 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:29:25pm |
re: #50 sattv4u2
We all know G is nutz and a meglomanic who in his last speech railed over and over about defying the US and other powers as part of 'their' revolution.
Was listening to a panel discussion very early this morning on one of the Al Jazeera satellite channels and most of the me participants on the panel were blaming "the west" in one way or another for the plight of Libya right now
And? What else is new.
| 62 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:29:31pm |
If we do act militarily, the goal should be removing Gadaffi/Kadaffi/Qadafi/hamsandwich from power, no?
Forgive me if i'm a little leery of doing that. The last thing we need is yet another "you broke it, you bought it" scenario in the ME.
Perhaps no fly zones would be in order? I don't know. I just don't think there's much we can do.
| 63 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:29:48pm |
re: #52 bloodstar
I don't think there is a military option. We don't have the resources to do much of anything and NATO is shot.
| 64 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:30:05pm |
re: #28 RogueOne
I've been railing against his refusal to take a stand since the Iranian elections. I gave him better marks on Egypt but still wanted him to come out and take a stand. I don't see why it's hard for our government to say "we don't like dictators and want them to go away".
Er... probably because it's not true?
| 65 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:30:10pm |
OK, Beck now says it was Obama's plan to destabilize the middle east and to destroy freedom by starting in Egypt. The evil SOB/
| 66 |
justaminute Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:30:17pm |
re: #49 RogueOne
You said yourself you were hoping for something stronger. I agree but I've been at that point since the Iranian election riots.
What would you say if those in the Green party didn't want more from Obama than strong words of encouragement. They sure don't want an American bombing campaign. So what would you suggest?
| 68 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:30:25pm |
re: #58 webevintage
So the difference between Iran and Lybia and Egypt is that we were actual supporters of the Egyptian regime and so had some pull, but with Iran or Libya we've got nothing and could make things more dangerous by calling anyone out.
Yep. That pretty much gets to the nuts and bolts of it.
| 69 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:31:12pm |
re: #52 bloodstar
Back on topic.
Just from a purely layperson view...
We do have resources and assets in rage, particularly if we have NATO help, to make a pretty decent impact on Libya's air and naval capacity. BUT, we really don't have the capacity to get boots on the ground to stop the rampage of mercenaries through the streets. We're already stretched to the breaking point with our Army/Marines.We can balance the fight, but we can't go in and win the fight or stop the carnage. And would it be worth it to go in? or would we end up creating more problems than we solve by America being perceived as throwing her weight around... again. (our intentions can be good, but if people take it the wrong way, we still take the hit)
True. I just wonder the impact of military intervention, since the Libyan army seems like it was ineffective a few weeks ago, and that was before regular soldiers and higher ups started defecting.
It looks like you're dealing with roving bands of un-identifiable mercenaries killing at random. Not sure we have a solution for that, though 8 years in Iraq has probably provided a few lessons on it.
| 71 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:31:21pm |
re: #66 justaminute
What would you say if those in the Green party didn't want more from Obama than strong words of encouragement. They sure don't want an American bombing campaign. So what would you suggest?
Say the words "We don't like [insert name of dictator] and want them gone". Easy.
| 72 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:31:47pm |
do something!
do something!
I'm having a cocktail
| 73 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:32:20pm |
re: #65 avanti
OK, Beck now says it was Obama's plan to destabilize the middle east and to destroy freedom by starting in Egypt. The evil SOB/
OT (a tad)
Can't understand how you (plural) can complain about Beck all the time and the number of people who watch him and the ratings he gets while,,, well,,, WATCHING him!!!
| 74 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:32:26pm |
re: #71 RogueOne
Say the words "We don't like [insert name of dictator] and want them gone". Easy.
And that wouldn't post a danger to US citizens that remain in Lybia?
| 75 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:32:59pm |
re: #72 albusteve
do something!
do something!I'm having a cocktail
While you're up, I'll have a vodka martini, straight up with olives
| 76 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:33:11pm |
re: #64 Walter L. Newton
Er... probably because it's not true?
Good point, "no dictators, no oil" has been the policy for both sides for many years. Ya think we'll ask the Saudi's to disband their kingdom for example.
| 77 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:33:17pm |
re: #68 Jadespring
Yep. That pretty much gets to the nuts and bolts of it.
Thanks.
Can't wait to read what President Palin has to say.
I'm sure she will talk about "man pants" and "balls" "respect our authority" without one mention that doing anything besides talk involves real soldiers getting real killed.
I'm sick of war.
I want us out of Iran and Afghanistan and the Balkins too.
(totally unrealistic, but I really want it all to end.)
| 78 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:33:37pm |
re: #71 RogueOne
Say the words "We don't like [insert name of dictator] and want them gone". Easy.
then again, why the hell don't we mind our own damned business?...useless rhetoric is just that
| 79 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:33:41pm |
Uh oh. Just spotted a 180 outrageous outrage.
@politicsworld Politics Worldwide
by SimonPeel
Obama's just prepared way for military action against #Gaddafi regime. Don't forget he needs a war to aid his re-election next year.
| 80 |
sliv_the_eli Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:33:51pm |
re: #46 avanti
Beck just said Obama was willing to pull out the middle east's keystone to security in Egypt, now he's sitting back. Why ? Some evil plan will be revealed after the break./
He will be reading from the Protocols of the Elders of the Reform Movement.
//
| 81 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:33:55pm |
Also it should be obvious that Gaddfi is not going to go. The only way he's going to go is if the people around him force him go, one way or another. There's no reaching that guy.
That speech wasn't for G it was for everyone around G.
| 82 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:34:17pm |
re: #75 sattv4u2
While you're up, I'll have a vodka martini, straight up with olives
I'm not up, my laundry girls are fawning over Sugar Pop
| 83 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:34:32pm |
Obama didn't mention Gaddafi's name!!11ty
Obama is preparing for war!!11ty
| 84 |
eastsider Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:35:01pm |
re: #79 Gus 802
Uh oh. Just spotted a 180 outrageous outrage.
@politicsworld Politics Worldwide
by SimonPeel
Obama's just prepared way for military action against #Gaddafi regime. Don't forget he needs a war to aid his re-election next year.
Its somewhat sad that republicans think of war primarily as an election strategy. Or that they can't conceive of a political strategy that doesn't involve fear and warmongering.
| 85 |
darthstar Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:35:03pm |
re: #79 Gus 802
Uh oh. Just spotted a 180 outrageous outrage.
@politicsworld Politics Worldwide
by SimonPeel
Obama's just prepared way for military action against #Gaddafi regime. Don't forget he needs a war to aid his re-election next year.
Silly wingnuts...Obama doesn't need to invade another country to look presidential. That was the last guy.
| 86 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:35:14pm |
re: #73 sattv4u2
OT (a tad)
Can't understand how you (plural) can complain about Beck all the time and the number of people who watch him and the ratings he gets while,,, well,,, WATCHING him!!!
I feel the need to monitor the inmates in the asylum, but you make a valid point.
| 87 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:35:46pm |
re: #71 RogueOne
Say the words "We don't like [insert name of dictator] and want them gone". Easy.
Who knew it was so simple to deal with international politics? Sure, what could possibly go wrong with the President saying we want to see the leaders of countries deposed?
I'm sure all the other leaders in the region would understand.
| 88 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:36:12pm |
re: #34 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The man's skin color is a minor item compared to being a Democrat. The Right was all for Powell running back in '00, and for Condi running in '08.
Agreed. The race issue is in there, with some folks, but given the searing contempt also shown for Hillary during the race, and the hostility shown to Clinton when he was in office, I think it's more partisanship with a dash of racism than the other way around.
| 89 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:36:34pm |
re: #85 darthstar
Silly wingnuts...Obama doesn't need to invade another country to look presidential. That was the last guy.
| 90 |
Jadespring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:37:16pm |
re: #83 Gus 802
He didn't leave out the idea. He didn't say anything about the specific options. He left that window wide open. Do I think it's going to happen in some form? No probably not it's near the end of the list. But multilateral options and working with allies can mean a whole lotta things.
| 91 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:38:03pm |
I love it. All the wingnuts are shrieking on Twitter about me banning NJDHockeyfan.
Meanwhile, his account has been restored since early this morning when I received his email apologizing and asking to be reinstated.
| 92 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:38:27pm |
Breaking News! Charles Johnson Bans Someone! World Horrified!
| 93 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:38:36pm |
re: #90 Jadespring
He didn't leave out the idea. He didn't say anything about the specific options. He left that window wide open. Do I think it's going to happen in some form? No probably not it's near the end of the list. But multilateral options and working with allies can mean a whole lotta things.
Yeah. And if all options are open then it can go anywhere. Saying that it will lead to war is just one option of many and not really a logical conclusion. I did not hear any saber rattling.
| 95 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:38:57pm |
re: #91 Charles
I love it. All the wingnuts are shrieking on Twitter about me banning NJDHockeyfan.
Meanwhile, his account has been restored since early this morning when I received his email apologizing and asking to be reinstated.
Stern, but fair.
| 96 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:39:25pm |
re: #85 darthstar
Silly wingnuts...Obama doesn't need to invade another country to look presidential. That was the last guy.
And the guy before that
and the one before that
and the one ,,,,
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 97 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:39:52pm |
re: #49 RogueOne
You said yourself you were hoping for something stronger. I agree but I've been at that point since the Iranian election riots.
Yes, who cares if what you want would play directly into the Iranian government's hands, helping them delegitimize the protests.
| 98 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:40:24pm |
| 99 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:40:35pm |
re: #92 Charles
Breaking News! Charles Johnson Bans Someone! World Horrified!
A stalker gets his wings!
/
| 100 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:40:45pm |
re: #35 eastsider
preventing genocide would be a valid reason, though the UN charter does not really permit for that sort of thing without security council agreement either.
anyway, what is unfolding now is quite there yet. horrible as mass murder is, it's a far cry from genocide.
I'd say intervention would, at this time, be justified in a moral sense at least if not legally(idea behind the UN charter is essentially to prevent war regardless; it's ill-equipped to dealing with the world of today).
any doctrines of humanitarian intervention without UN consent are, sadly, highly controversial (NATO intervention in Yugoslavia for example) in a legal sense.
security council agreement would make any intervention greatly less controversial at least, and besides that, there's another argument to consider: there's a fair bit of anti-americanism in many arab nations; any US intervention could, however well-intentioned, destabilize any locally accepted democratic movement.
UN intervention as a whole would be much less controversial to say the least. if only for that, going the UN route would be vastly preferable here.
the main argument against would be the sovereignty argument, which is the dominant legal point here.
I don't really buy it personally: any legitimacy there was to this government evaporated when it turned out pretty much the entire population despises it and wants it gone; but that's just my feelings, not the law, and intervening in a foreign nations' sovereign affairs remains a slippery slope to be careful with.
as to the wording of Obama's speech: feelings about the US in those regions can be mixed, at least. his strong agreement with one parties' stand could be construed by the other party as "hey look, they're in cahoots with american, imperialist, evil etc..." now I'm not sure how strong these sentiments are in Libya but I'd be surprised if they played no role at all.
perhaps a hands-off approach can be the practically most beneficent one, if a little disappointing in the short run.
I'm sure there's a few capable strategists in the white house running 80-hour weeks these last few days. or this last month, for that matter...
| 101 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:41:13pm |
| 102 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:41:22pm |
re: #92 Charles
Breaking News! Charles Johnson Bans Someone! World Horrified!
where's obama's Speech Condeming you! he's being too Complaint to dictators everywhere!!!!1!!
/
| 103 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:42:15pm |
Now it went mainstream. From ABC News.
Obama Condemns Violence in Libya But Doesn't Mention Moammar Gadhafi
| 104 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:42:29pm |
re: #102 BishopX
where's obama's Speech Condeming you! he's being too Complaint to dictators everywhere!!!1!!
/
yes, but how exactly would shooting random commenters work? that'd make for an interesting twist to a debate...
/
| 105 |
Obdicut Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:42:30pm |
re: #91 Charles
I disagree, strenuously, with NJDHockeyfan on many, many issues. But I'm glad he's not banned, and that he apologized. He obviously is a patriotic dude who wants what's best for the country. We just disagree a lot on what that best is.
| 106 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:42:31pm |
re: #99 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
A stalker gets his wings!
/
NJD may sometimes poop in the punchbowl, but he isn't the stalker type, I don't think.
| 108 |
Renaissance_Man Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:43:34pm |
re: #103 Gus 802
Now it went mainstream. From ABC News.
Obama Condemns Violence in Libya But Doesn't Mention Moammar Gadhafi
Damn that liberal media!
| 109 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:43:35pm |
re: #105 Obdicut
Now watch the stalkers turn on him.
| 110 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:46:27pm |
re: #105 Obdicut
I disagree, strenuously, with NJDHockeyfan on many, many issues. But I'm glad he's not banned, and that he apologized. He obviously is a patriotic dude who wants what's best for the country. We just disagree a lot on what that best is.
Just to be clear, the banning happened because he linked to a website that was engaged in trying to "out" the Wisconsin Democrats who left the state, and I refuse to let LGF be used for that purpose. He was not banned simply for "indirect linking" to Gateway Pundit.
In any case, an apology was offered and accepted, and his account is restored.
| 111 |
avanti Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:46:50pm |
re: #105 Obdicut
I disagree, strenuously, with NJDHockeyfan on many, many issues. But I'm glad he's not banned, and that he apologized. He obviously is a patriotic dude who wants what's best for the country. We just disagree a lot on what that best is.
Very true, we need different voices or we'll just have a typical echo chamber blog.
| 112 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:46:55pm |
if Mo does not bug out, if he stays in Tripoli, it will be his last stand....someone will kill him, or he will be captured and lose his head....bet me
| 113 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:48:25pm |
re: #112 albusteve
Man, I don't have enough money just to give you some of it! There's already a fatwah out on his head, and he's pissed off a whole bunch of the tribes and army. It's really just a matter of time.
| 114 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:48:32pm |
Meanwhile, oil prices continue their ascent:
[Link: www.upstreamonline.com...]
Unrest in oil producing regions is a formula for oil-driven inflation.
| 115 |
Renaissance_Man Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:49:36pm |
re: #111 avanti
Very true, we need different voices or we'll just have a typical echo chamber blog.
No we won't.
| 116 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:49:59pm |
all's well in LGFville....some people come, others go and a few have multiple lives....Hockeyfan is not a bad guy, if he was he'd have been long gone
| 117 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:50:36pm |
re: #112 albusteve
trouble is, he's got quite a few of his personal guards and loyal military still willing to shoot and kill for him; if it has to come to this it will probably be an absolute bloodbath. hope and pray he runs and lives out his days somewhere hidden away, quietly.
it's too late to intervene anyway, probably. the chain of events set in motion here will climax too soon for any meaningful military response to be in place there...
| 118 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:50:38pm |
re: #34 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The man's skin color is a minor item compared to being a Democrat. The Right was all for Powell running back in '00, and for Condi running in '08.
You'll notice that they don't really like either one now. They only pretended to like Powell and Rice because they were then identified as starkly contrasting with the right's idea then of what a typical black person is. Rice and Powell turned out to like Obama because they're actually somewhat intelligent, so in the meantime the concept of a reasonable black person has shifted considerably along with the bad craziness. Now the Right likes Allen West because he hates the same people they hate, abused and basically tortured an Iraqi prisoner, and is as batshit insane as they are.
| 119 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:50:54pm |
re: #104 ThomasLite
yes, but how exactly would shooting random commenters work? that'd make for an interesting twist to a debate...
/
He probably contracts that out to a mercenary named Varek. Geo location combined with an ion cannon can be very effective. The call it "grilling trolls"!
/obligatory
| 120 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:51:02pm |
re: #113 BishopX
Man, I don't have enough money just to give you some of it! There's already a fatwah out on his head, and he's pissed off a whole bunch of the tribes and army. It's really just a matter of time.
I thought I was being profound....I've not kept up for a couple of days
| 121 |
wrenchwench Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:51:18pm |
re: #111 avanti
Very true, we need different voices or we'll just have a typical echo chamber blog.
A tip of the hat to you for being a pioneer of sorts in avoiding that. Good to see that your karma has recovered.
| 122 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:52:17pm |
re: #117 ThomasLite
Hi, Thomas. Whatever our disagreements, I'm glad you decided to be a more frequent commenter.
| 124 |
sliv_the_eli Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:52:44pm |
re: #84 eastsider
Its somewhat sad that republicans think of war primarily as an election strategy. Or that they can't conceive of a political strategy that doesn't involve fear and warmongering.
Accusing the occupant of the White House of using foreign conflicts for domestic political gains is not strictly a Replublican or Democrat issue, but one of whichever party is out of power. (Which should be obvious, since only the party in power can commit troops to war). Those of us old enough will remember Bill Clinton being accused of bombing Afghanistan and Sudan to distract attention from Lewinsky-gate (because anything worth criticising a government about must have the suffix "gate" attached to it). More recently, Dems accused the Bush administration of using war in Iraq and Afghanistan for domestic political gain. And I can remember many a college class in which one academic or another opined about presidents from both sides of the political aisle conducting war for domestic political advantage.
Now, does that mean that the question of what the domestic political ramifications might be is not even being considered? Of course not. At the very least, President Obama, like every president before him, has political operatives who are paid to think and advise him abuot those issues. (And nobody becomes President without the capacity to think in those terms, as well). However, even though I am not generally a supporter of President Obama, I don't think anyone can honestly (in the sense of intellectual honesty, not whether they actually believe such nonesense) say that President Obama is about to commit U.S. troops in Libya (hastily or otherwise), much less that he is about to start a new war in order to get re-elected. Aside from the sheer stupidity of such a move -- and, whatever else is the case, President Obama and his advisors are not sheerly stupid -- the pace and extent of upheaval in North Africa and the Middle East simply does not lend itself to the kind of control that makes military involvement a politically useful tool.
| 125 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:53:31pm |
| 126 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:53:52pm |
re: #122 Sergey Romanov
and hello to you, as well. I saw an interesting topic with
| 127 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:54:11pm |
| 128 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:54:23pm |
re: #125 Walter L. Newton
When are you going to have yours? I've been waiting :)
That's movement. As in bowel. I'm still waiting here. Think I ate too much cheese.
/
| 129 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:55:08pm |
re: #106 Fozzie Bear
NJD may sometimes poop in the punchbowl, but he isn't the stalker type, I don't think.
Nah, wasn't a slight against NJD, though I can see how it'd read that way. Have nothing against NJD, though as the sayin' goes, "I hardly know the guy!"
| 130 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:55:09pm |
CalTech won it's first in-Conference basketball game in 26 years..
I think Obama should invite them to the White House for lunch...
| 131 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:55:48pm |
re: #128 Gus 802
That's movement. As in bowel. I'm still waiting here. Think I ate too much cheese.
/
Have some prune juice. It's a warrior's drink!
/
| 132 |
wrenchwench Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:56:32pm |
| 133 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:56:36pm |
re: #126 ThomasLite
and hello to you, as well. I saw an interesting topic with
don't know what happened there; it seems the commenting engine does not like a less than sign.
it read something like "...less than 100 comments and I had something relevant to add, so why not.
I do so like the idea of having an actual rational debate over the internet. it's such a rare thing, hehe."
seems there's an anti "little bobby DROP TABLES..."-mechanism in place which killed that comment.
| 134 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:56:47pm |
Somebody on the news suggested a no fly zone for Libyan military flights. If it were really backed by the UN or a good coalition, I'd be fine with that. That would be a stronger measure, intended to save lives not meddle or regime change that I would support.
And BTW just prosecuting the pirates that killed the sailor on the Quest is not enough for me. Getting after the pirate bases or pirate mother ships would make perfect sense to me.
| 135 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:57:28pm |
re: #133 ThomasLite
It's a plot!!1
| 136 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:57:30pm |
re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Nah, wasn't a slight against NJD, though I can see how it'd read that way. Have nothing against NJD, though as the sayin' goes, "I hardly know the guy!"
grudges are bad juju....even after brawling my way into numerous deleted posts, time outs and a blocked account, I never hold a grudge...I want to go to heaven, dig it?
| 137 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:57:42pm |
Latest...
Hostage fear a key factor in Obama's muted Libya response
Washington (CNN) -- While President Obama has taken heat for a relatively muted response in the early days of the crisis in Libya, U.S. officials privately believe it was the best strategy because if Obama had bashed Libyan dictator Moammar Gadhafi it could have put the thousands of Americans who are in Libya in harm's way.
U.S. officials said there was a fear inside the administration that some of those Americans could have been taken hostage by Gadhafi, who once again made his distaste for America clear in rambling public remarks earlier this week and would relish the chance to escalate the crisis and drag U.S. citizens into the crossfire.
It's no accident that aides now say Obama is planning to make his first on-camera comments about the matter late Wednesday or early Thursday, just as a chartered ferry is expected to evacuate more than 500 Americans from Tripoli to nearby Malta.
Asked by CNN if Obama was being more cautious in his public comments because of the Americans in harm's way, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney acknowledged it was an "important factor" in the calculations.
Continues.
| 138 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:59:32pm |
re: #134 Rightwingconspirator
I'd say no fly zone + oil sanctions would be the way to go. Let's make bankrolling mercenaries to kill Libyans difficult.
| 139 |
Targetpractice Wed, Feb 23, 2011 2:59:53pm |
re: #137 Gus 802
Latest...
Ask anybody who got treated to Saddam's "loving care" during the lead-up to the First Gulf War the wisdom in making noises about seeing a dictator removed from office.
| 141 |
Idle Drifter Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:01:02pm |
re: #137 Gus 802
Latest...
That does make perfect sense though there's probably a battle group with an amphibious attachment and hospitable ships en route if not already on station. Just in case.
| 142 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:02:10pm |
| 143 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:02:12pm |
re: #141 Idle Drifter
I don't think the Navy makes hospitable ships.
| 144 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:02:40pm |
re: #141 Idle Drifter
That does make perfect sense though there's probably a battle group with an amphibious attachment and hospitable ships en route if not already on station. Just in case.
Possible but if there was a battle group underway we'd know about it.
| 145 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:03:39pm |
re: #138 BishopX
I'd say no fly zone + oil sanctions would be the way to go. Let's make bankrolling mercenaries to kill Libyans difficult.
I am wondering about the oils sanctions thing... on one hand we can lean on countries by stopping their sale of oil, on the other hand we get freaked out by the thought that the might stop selling oil. (does that make sense?)
| 146 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:04:15pm |
re: #143 BishopX
I don't think the Navy makes hospitable ships.
Technically, it buys them. I was under the impression that for the Atlantic the resources were still being used in Haiti, but I've not kept up with the news.
| 147 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:04:19pm |
re: #134 Rightwingconspirator
Somebody on the news suggested a no fly zone for Libyan military flights. If it were really backed by the UN or a good coalition, I'd be fine with that. That would be a stronger measure, intended to save lives not meddle or regime change that I would support.
And BTW just prosecuting the pirates that killed the sailor on the Quest is not enough for me. Getting after the pirate bases or pirate mother ships would make perfect sense to me.
no fly zone is a beautiful idea, the problem, once again, is the time it would take to set this up legitimately (which is what you seem to want as well). it'll all be over by then.
as to prosecuting the pirates: I'd dearly love to see more action taken, but it's virtually impossible to legally do so if you don't catch them either in the act or at least preparing.
doing more than that feels good, but it's basically a small-scale war (ships under foreign flag not proven to be engaging in illegal activities, plus hometowns on foreign shores) and I doubt you can actually convict anyone for looking like a pirate.
also, don't mistake this piracy for anything centrally led, or highly concentrated for that matter. most of it as I understand it is individual groups of perhaps 10-20 men, possibly in loose coordination with other such groups, operating from small fishermen's towns. you'd have to basically start a modern-day inquisition there...
intensive patrols and armed guards on ships will be the way to go there for a while, I fear...
| 148 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:04:31pm |
And threatening sanctions against Lybia is far worse than asking Mubarak to step down. Egypt was never under threat of sanctions.
| 150 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:05:26pm |
re: #146 freetoken
Technically, it buys them. I was under the impression that for the Atlantic the resources were still being used in Haiti, but I've not kept up with the news.
hospital ships, certainly.
hospitable ships? that's a matter of taste, I'd say.
| 151 |
wrenchwench Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:05:30pm |
re: #142 HoosierHoops
plus they beat Occidental.. President Obama's first College..
That's why he should invite the to DC..The President has class and is a good sport
I just thought of that. My brother was there at the same time. He thinks he remembers seeing him on campus--maybe.
| 152 |
BishopX Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:05:37pm |
re: #149 Idle Drifter
It's fine, we all do that some times. It wasn't intended as a snark.
Now, off to chicken curry dinner time.
| 153 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:06:30pm |
re: #150 ThomasLite
hospital ships, certainly.
hospitable ships? that's a matter of taste, I'd say.
Heh, compared to being bombed in some hellhole in the middle of nowhere...
| 154 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:07:56pm |
We should offer Libyan air force pilots a reward for abandoning their missions and landing in Malta. There's been a few so far including some ditching of aircraft and ejections. Could also set up a rescue operation for these pilot. Might be a crazy idea.
| 155 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:08:24pm |
re: #78 albusteve
then again, why the hell don't we mind our own damned business?...useless rhetoric is just that
Because I don't believe it's useless rhetoric nor do I believe taking a principled stand, especially against oppressive regimes, is a bad idea. Look how history views the Kennedy and Reagan Berlin speeches.
| 156 |
Idle Drifter Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:08:34pm |
re: #152 BishopX
It's fine, we all do that some times. It wasn't intended as a snark.
Now, off to chicken curry dinner time.
No problem. I haven't met my "Damn!" quota for today.
Hospital Ships are mainly in use by the military. Quite effective for getting massive numbers of civilians out.
| 157 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:08:35pm |
re: #103 Gus 802
Now it went mainstream. From ABC News.
Obama Condemns Violence in Libya But Doesn't Mention Moammar Gadhafi
Drudge bait.
| 158 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:09:11pm |
re: #134 Rightwingconspirator
And BTW just prosecuting the pirates that killed the sailor on the Quest is not enough for me. Getting after the pirate bases or pirate mother ships would make perfect sense to me.
Now there is a war I would support.
It has been done before.
| 159 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:09:17pm |
Idiocy of the day hour from Townhall:
Rich Galen has a post at Townhall flagging the rise in oil prices, warning it will lead to inflation (in which he is correct), but then ends with this:
Go to the Safeway. Buy milk, eggs, white bread, and peanut butter.
Now.
Like, yeah, go ahead and convince the end-times wingnuts that a rush on perishable goods is a good thing to do. That'll keep those prices down, eh?
| 160 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:09:38pm |
re: #152 BishopX
It's fine, we all do that some times. It wasn't intended as a snark.
Now, off to chicken curry dinner time.
Hey, that's what I'm making....
| 161 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:10:22pm |
re: #155 RogueOne
Because I don't believe it's useless rhetoric nor do I believe taking a principled stand, especially against oppressive regimes, is a bad idea. Look how history views the Kennedy and Reagan Berlin speeches.
Being that we still have some of our own in harms way how would your preferred rhetoric be useful?
| 162 |
Digital Display Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:10:31pm |
re: #150 ThomasLite
hospital ships, certainly.
hospitable ships? that's a matter of taste, I'd say.
Well now that DADT is a thing of the past..The Navy can finally have hospitable ships that are Fabulous!
*wink*
| 164 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:10:56pm |
re: #158 webevintage
Now there is a war I would support.
It has been done before.
ironically in what is now Libya...
| 165 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:11:52pm |
re: #162 HoosierHoops
Well now that DADT is a thing of the past..The Navy can finally have hospitable ships that are Fabulous!
*wink*
worth it if only for the "annoy-a-socon" factor!
| 166 |
Idle Drifter Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:11:57pm |
re: #159 freetoken
Idiocy of the
dayhour from Townhall:Rich Galen has a post at Townhall flagging the rise in oil prices, warning it will lead to inflation (in which he is correct), but then ends with this:
Like, yeah, go ahead and convince the end-times wingnuts that a rush on perishable goods is a good thing to do. That'll keep those prices down, eh?
Just like gold and guns. Though in my humble opinion you can never have too many guns! It's just there's never enough ammunition!
| 167 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:12:04pm |
re: #148 Gus 802
And threatening sanctions against Lybia is far worse than asking Mubarak to step down. Egypt was never under threat of sanctions.
We owned that dictator. I have a hard time believing we would have continued sending money to them if Mubarak was still holding out or he called in an air strike on tahrir.
| 168 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:12:41pm |
Religious fanatics openly calling for the destruction of the public school system: Do Wisconsin's Public Schools Deserve to Survive?
| 169 |
funky chicken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:16:12pm |
re: #1 eastsider
"bloodshed and violence is outrageous"
"violence must stop"
talking the talk...but what's next?
Hopefully, nothing. I certainly don't want to send our military over there.
| 170 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:17:13pm |
re: #168 Charles
Religious fanatics openly calling for the destruction of the public school system: Do Wisconsin's Public Schools Deserve to Survive?
good grief...I thought 'kill em all and let god sort em out' was a cliche...looks like some people are enjoying their freefall, their decent into chaos
| 171 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:17:55pm |
Gov Christie says unions are trying to break the middle class. It's fucking bizzaro world. Bankers are the salt of the earth. Laborers are greedy bastards.
| 172 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:18:49pm |
re: #168 Charles
Religious fanatics openly calling for the destruction of the public school system: Do Wisconsin's Public Schools Deserve to Survive?
yup. catholic schools score somewhat higher averages than public schools.
must be because of the religious input - no chance that it's just because most of the students from the worst of backgrounds tend to end up in the public school system, thereby prejudicing this test?
I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt and not attribute to malice that which can be attributed to stupidity, sadly...
oh, and those lovely catholic schools, if in line with church doctrine, teach evolution as fact. they can't possibly like that?
| 173 |
funky chicken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:19:32pm |
re: #159 freetoken
Go to the Safeway. Buy milk, eggs, white bread, and peanut butter.
Now.
White bread? I thought we'd all be growing our own wheat from Glenn Beck's survivalist seed kits so we womenfolk could get back in the kitchen bakin' bread all day like we should.
White bread? That's what he couldn't imagine doing without?
| 174 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:19:45pm |
re: #161 recusancy
Being that we still have some of our own in harms way how would your preferred rhetoric be useful?
Clinton said Qaddafi would be punished and Obama said "all options are on the table". I don't think taking the additional step of saying Qaddafi needs to go would have put any more stress on whatever citizens we have still in country.
| 175 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:21:27pm |
re: #170 albusteve
It also kind of reveals the conservative version of the Cloward Piven strategy. They want to create a crisis that would allow them to abolish public education, unions, welfare, social security, the EPA, and a whole host of government agencies and social programs. If that means creating a crisis so be it.
| 176 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:22:36pm |
re: #174 RogueOne
Clinton said Qaddafi would be punished and Obama said "all options are on the table". I don't think taking the additional step of saying Qaddafi needs to go would have put any more stress on whatever citizens we have still in country.
What would happen if Obama said Qaddafi had to go? Would he go? Would it make a difference? Or would it just make you feel warm and fuzzy?
| 177 |
freetoken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:23:08pm |
re: #168 Charles
Brings to mind the Iowa high school wrestler who lost his high profile match by forfeit not long ago. Today there is a background story on him and his family:
Stand puts wrestler in middle of culture war
[...]Joel's father, Jamie Northrup, sees two things some people just aren't getting: the nature of wrestling, and the nature of religion in today's America.
First, religion. The Northrups raise their eight kids with a strong biblical influence. (Mother Sara gave birth to number eight, Evan, on Friday morning, less than 24 hours after Joel defaulted his match.) The family attends Believers in Grace Ministries, a nondenominational church in Marion where Jamie volunteers as youth pastor. Their beliefs are simple: That Jesus Christ is their Lord and Savior; that the Bible is God's word; and that the Bible's lessons should be applied to everyday life.
That's why the Northrups opted for home-schooling. They wanted a quality education where they could talk about God. They wanted to be able to teach creationism alongside evolutionism. And they wanted a place without distractions like drugs, alcohol, sex.
[...]
| 178 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:23:18pm |
re: #174 RogueOne
Clinton said Qaddafi would be punished and Obama said "all options are on the table". I don't think taking the additional step of saying Qaddafi needs to go would have put any more stress on whatever citizens we have still in country.
it's quite possible that those loyal to Qaddafi do not have quite the degree of control, or even just the time, to go rounding up US citizens just because of a speech the prez made. still, doesn't hurt to be on the safe side and really, nothing would be achieved by just making some added noise...
| 179 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:23:29pm |
Oh look, Mike Huckabee is saying stupid shit again:
[Link: www.arktimes.com...]
... Huckabee opposes gay marriage on the grounds that, according to him, it destroys traditional families.
"There is a quantified impact of broken families," Huckabee said.
| 180 |
sliv_the_eli Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:23:33pm |
re: #158 webevintage
Now there is a war I would support.
It has been done before.
Not merely done, it was the primary reason that led to the creation of a real U.S. Navy and to the birth of the U.S. Marine Corps.
| 181 |
engineer cat Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:23:53pm |
Fox Reverses Poll Results To Falsely Claim Most Americans Favor Ending Collective Bargaining
isn't that special!
have you guys seen this yet?
| 182 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:24:34pm |
re: #179 webevintage
Oh look, Mike Huckabee is saying stupid shit again:
[Link: www.arktimes.com...]
That should be easy to test, who has a higher divorce rate, us or Canada?
| 183 |
blueraven Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:24:36pm |
re: #174 RogueOne
Clinton said Qaddafi would be punished and Obama said "all options are on the table". I don't think taking the additional step of saying Qaddafi needs to go would have put any more stress on whatever citizens we have still in country.
Maybe the President is not banking on what you think. I for one, am grateful. for that. I suspect other civilians that may be in that country, trying to get out are glad as well.
| 184 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:25:01pm |
re: #174 RogueOne
Clinton said Qaddafi would be punished and Obama said "all options are on the table". I don't think taking the additional step of saying Qaddafi needs to go would have put any more stress on whatever citizens we have still in country.
Obama could have said Gaddafi should go in 14 different languages and Gaddafi would remain in place. It would only be a self serving statement. Additionally, US citizens are not the only concern since we're no doubt consulting with our allies.
| 185 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:25:54pm |
re: #182 jamesfirecat
That should be easy to test, who has a higher divorce rate, us or Canada?
Hell, Arkansas, where we keep those gays from marrying, has a higher divorce rate then any other state but Nevada.
| 186 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:26:39pm |
Quit fantasizing. Obama said what he said so deal with it. He's not Bush, he's not Clinton, and he's not Reagan. And he's not taking orders from National Review and Pajamas Media.
| 187 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:26:47pm |
re: #176 recusancy
What would happen if Obama said Qaddafi had to go? Would he go? Would it make a difference? Or would it just make you feel warm and fuzzy?
Yes It would make a difference. Condemnation of the violence isn't enough, it has to be made clear that Qaddafi has to go. I still don't understand why that's a problem.
| 188 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:27:26pm |
re: #177 freetoken
so basically, he's not been outside much, he's still scared of girls and he's justifying this with religion.
I mean, not objectifying girls? really? wouldn't treating them the same as boys do that quite nicely? depending on his feelings about wrestling boys, of course...
| 189 |
funky chicken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:27:48pm |
re: #179 webevintage
Oh look, Mike Huckabee is saying stupid shit again:
[Link: www.arktimes.com...]
Well, if you have more marriages, you will likely have more divorces. I suppose that's a "quantified impact."
Um, yeah.
| 190 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:27:50pm |
re: #175 Killgore Trout
It also kind of reveals the conservative version of the Cloward Piven strategy. They want to create a crisis that would allow them to abolish public education, unions, welfare, social security, the EPA, and a whole host of government agencies and social programs. If that means creating a crisis so be it.
breaking a few eggs?...there are limits to their reach, I'm counting on it
| 191 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:28:05pm |
re: #187 RogueOne
Yes It would make a difference. Condemnation of the violence isn't enough, it has to be made clear that Qaddafi has to go. I still don't understand why that's a problem.
Holy shit you think Obama's powerful. Just his words will depose an obviously insane dictator.
| 192 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:28:09pm |
re: #187 RogueOne
Yes It would make a difference. Condemnation of the violence isn't enough, it has to be made clear that Qaddafi has to go. I still don't understand why that's a problem.
Because saying so allows Qaddafi to turn it into an issue of him standing firm against our imperalist decadent orders rather than him butcher his people.
| 194 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:29:07pm |
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
Sen Feinstein to introduce DOMA repeal bill today
| 195 |
blueraven Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:29:16pm |
re: #187 RogueOne
Yes It would make a difference. Condemnation of the violence isn't enough, it has to be made clear that Qaddafi has to go. I still don't understand why that's a problem.
Because it is an extremely volatile, fast moving situation over there. Qadaffi is nuts and blaming the west. You would make a crappy chess player.
| 196 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:29:36pm |
re: #191 recusancy
Holy shit you think Obama's powerful. Just his words will depose an obviously insane dictator.
| 197 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:29:48pm |
re: #187 RogueOne
Yes It would make a difference. Condemnation of the violence isn't enough, it has to be made clear that Qaddafi has to go. I still don't understand why that's a problem.
the Libyans are saying that for you....mind your own business...this 'do something' shit is getting old, it's reactionary and idealistic
| 199 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:30:00pm |
re: #195 blueraven
Because it is an extremely volatile, fast moving situation over there. Qadaffi is nuts and blaming the west. You would make a crappy chess player.
He'd be a crappy checkers player.
| 200 |
zora Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:31:19pm |
re: #188 ThomasLite
so basically, he's not been outside much, he's still scared of girls and he's justifying this with religion.
I mean, not objectifying girls? really? wouldn't treating them the same as boys do that quite nicely? depending on his feelings about wrestling boys, of course...
i feel sorry for the little guy. i have two boys and i don't know that i would want them wrestling a girl. actually, yes i do. i would not want them to wrestle a girl.
| 201 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:32:30pm |
re: #147 ThomasLite
I think (or the Navy should assert) the legalities of tactically boarding and seizing a pirate mother ship that was hijacked to begin with are in order. Especially if radar tracks the pirate attack boats back to the mother ship.
| 202 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:32:52pm |
| 203 |
recusancy Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:33:04pm |
re: #200 zora
i feel sorry for the little guy. i have two boys and i don't know that i would want them wrestling a girl. actually, yes i do. i would not want them to wrestle a girl.
Really? Any sport or just wrestling? There were a few girls in my hockey league in junior high.
| 204 |
brookly red Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:33:12pm |
re: #200 zora
i feel sorry for the little guy. i have two boys and i don't know that i would want them wrestling a girl. actually, yes i do. i would not want them to wrestle a girl.
/what in blazes are you 2 doing?!
uh, wrestling?
| 206 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:33:31pm |
re: #200 zora
Regardless of whether it's sexism or not on the boy's part, he would probably be mocked by his friends and maybe relatives if he beat the girl and he would be mocked if he was beaten by the girl. Society's attitude should be taken into account before judging him.
| 208 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:36:12pm |
| 209 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:37:11pm |
re: #208 Varek Raith
Nuke it!
Hur hur! Tonight we're going to party like it's 2004! When in doubt, call out the toy soldiers!
/
| 210 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:39:14pm |
| 211 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:39:28pm |
In the DKos posting about the Kochs there's this nifty link to daddy Koch's book:
Apparently his memoirs of building refineries for Onkel Joseph.
| 212 |
zora Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:39:45pm |
re: #203 recusancy
not sure. my boys don't play organized sports. not because i don't let them, but they have no interest and kind of suck at it. (same as their dad) i just don't want them roughing up girls. my oldest is tall and wears a size 15 shoe. if only he had a dollar for every time someone asks him if he plays basketball.
| 213 |
Varek Raith Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:39:45pm |
| 214 |
albusteve Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:40:53pm |
| 215 |
RogueOne Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:41:08pm |
| 218 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:42:49pm |
re: #35 eastsider
Curious what the lizards think: at what point (if any) does the US have a responsibility to step in with troops? What if we see a genocide unfolding?
When we're asked to step in, by somebody with standing to do the asking.
The problem is... how to precisely define "somebody with standing to do the asking."
| 219 |
Gus Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:42:53pm |
re: #211 Sergey Romanov
In the DKos posting about the Kochs there's this nifty link to daddy Koch's book:
[Link: www.scribd.com...]
Apparently his memoirs of building refineries for Onkel Joseph.
How I learned to stop worrying and love Stalin that helped pay for my sons ivy league tuition.
/
| 220 |
ThomasLite Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:45:27pm |
re: #201 Rightwingconspirator
I think (or the Navy should assert) the legalities of tactically boarding and seizing a pirate mother ship that was hijacked to begin with are in order. Especially if radar tracks the pirate attack boats back to the mother ship.
true enough. that is a big if, though.
try tracing rubber boats (often it's not much more) on radar for starters...re: #200 zora
really? I mean, she chose to perform in that sport... I think it's a good approach at taking down traditional gender stereotypes...
| 221 |
Idle Drifter Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:45:35pm |
| 222 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:45:48pm |
re: #43 Fozzie Bear
Why is it always our responsibility, and nobody else's? The US isn't made of money and disposable resources.
Sure, it would be nice if we had infinite troops and money to just play global superhero state for awhile, but we just can't do it. We don't have the money for this shit any more.
To quote P.J. O'Rourke (from 1991) -- "You say we're not the world's policeman... so who are you going to call? Sweden?"
| 223 |
zora Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:51:42pm |
re: #220 ThomasLite
good for her. my point was i feel sorry for the heat the 15 yr old boy is taking for forfeiting.
| 224 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 23, 2011 3:53:04pm |
re: #58 webevintage
So the difference between Iran and Lybia and Egypt is that we were actual supporters of the Egyptian regime and so had some pull, but with Iran or Libya we've got nothing and could make things more dangerous by calling anyone out.
The Iranian opposition movement has leadership and official spokespeople -- if they wanted our involvement they'd ask for it. They haven't asked for it.
Anything we might do to try to help would just undermine the side we're trying to help.
| 225 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 23, 2011 4:02:33pm |
re: #130 HoosierHoops
CalTech won it's first in-Conference basketball game in 26 years..
I think Obama should invite them to the White House for lunch...
That would seriously mess with his strategy of trying to always be the smartest guy in the room.
| 226 |
sagehen Wed, Feb 23, 2011 4:15:40pm |
re: #200 zora
i feel sorry for the little guy. i have two boys and i don't know that i would want them wrestling a girl. actually, yes i do. i would not want them to wrestle a girl.
Her coach wouldn't have her on the team if she couldn't compete at the same level as her teammates... the egalitarian non-sexist spirit only required that she be allowed a tryout, if she made the team it's on her own athletic merits.
| 227 |
Girl with a Pearl Earring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 4:48:53pm |
We don't know what's going on (diplomatically) behind the scenes, including what the U.S. is doing to get Americans, including our diplomats, out of the country. I believe Tripoli is an "unaccompanied" (i.e., no dependents) assignment for Americans working at the Embassy, but I assume that there are American business people working in Libya also.
I would be surprised if we do not see mass defections of Libyan diplomats (including intel officers) around the world requesting political asylum in the coming days. The Libyan Ambassador to the U.S. and the Libyan mission to the UN have already broken with Gadaffi. And if we have sources in the Libyan Government and/or security services, they will have to be protected and arrangements made for their asylum or exfiltration from Libya.
| 228 |
webevintage Wed, Feb 23, 2011 5:00:23pm |
re: #212 zora
not sure. my boys don't play organized sports. not because i don't let them, but they have no interest and kind of suck at it. (same as their dad) i just don't want them roughing up girls. my oldest is tall and wears a size 15 shoe. if only he had a dollar for every time someone asks him if he plays basketball.
It not "roughing up" if the teenage girl is on the school wrestling team. She would not be doing it if she could not handle it.
Please...we really are not the weaker sex.
and pandering to that teenage misogynist does nothing to further a future where women are allowed to do anything they want and can do.
| 229 |
funky chicken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 5:14:08pm |
re: #210 RogueOne
re: #199 recusancy
You can't play if you're not in the game.
Yeah, my husband's an Air Force pilot. War isn't a game, and this nut isn't targeting US citizens again. It's not our military's job to ensure global safety.
It sucks that madmen are in charge of police forces and military forces, but we simply can't fix the problem.
| 230 |
funky chicken Wed, Feb 23, 2011 5:16:18pm |
re: #222 sagehen
To quote P.J. O'Rourke (from 1991) -- "You say we're not the world's policeman... so who are you going to call? Sweden?"
Actually, France and Italy could handle policing a no-fly zone from their home territory if they wanted to.
We can't and shouldn't.
| 231 |
Girl with a Pearl Earring Wed, Feb 23, 2011 5:17:09pm |
| 232 |
Girl with a Pearl Earring Thu, Feb 24, 2011 5:57:48am |
The chaos and bloodshed:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
Evacuations (more chaos); Americans seem to be having more trouble getting out than others:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
| 233 |
ihateronpaul Thu, Feb 24, 2011 6:13:32am |
"hey man, stop that! no, really, stop that!"
COOL SPEECH BRO
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