Florida Mayoral Candidate ‘Jokes’ About Bombing Abortion Clinics

The right wing war against women’s rights gets even uglier
Wingnuts • Views: 36,796

Republican Mike Hogan, running for mayor of Jacksonville, Florida, told an audience in a Catholic Church Monday night that he wouldn’t bomb an abortion clinic, “but it may cross my mind.”

The audience laughed and applauded.

Hogan, a Baptist, said he will be “loving” the day that the U.S. Supreme Court overturns the Roe v. Wade decision allowing abortions. He told the audience of about 100 people at St. Joseph’s Catholic Church that “it was an awful decision by an awful court.”

Hogan added that the only thing he wouldn’t do was bomb an abortion clinic, then the law-and-order advocate added, with a laugh, “but it may cross my mind.”

The Mandarin crowd applauded.

After this disgusting remark, Hogan was confronted — and, of course, he said he was just joking.

After the forum, Hogan told The Times-Union he was simply joking about even thinking about bombing an abortion clinic.

“If I’ve got to measure everything I say, I mean, I’m not going to be politically correct,” Hogan said. “That was a joke. This was an audience for this. This is a Catholic Church. I guarantee you they are 110 percent pro-life.”

Wow. So now a Catholic Church is the perfect place to make “jokes” about committing terrorist acts?

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380 comments
1 S'latch  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:43:53am

So, pro-life means bombing people?

2 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:44:16am

“Wow. So now a Catholic Church is the perfect place to make “jokes” about committing terrorist acts?”


///What you’ve never been to an IRA wake?

(Too far?)

3 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:44:31am

It’s always a “joke” until it actually happens…

4 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:44:55am

Remember all the outrageous outrage when some left-wing “comedian” (Sarah Silverman?) made a “joke” about Sarah Palin getting gang-raped by a bunch of black men?

5 Kronocide  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:45:32am

Major WTF.

It seems like that the Theocratic Eruptions have increased significantly of late.

6 darthstar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:46:57am

And yet this fuck thinks he’s morally superior to others.

7 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:47:01am

Fucknut.

8 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:47:31am

Taking a page from Limbaugh’s “satire”, I see.

Fuck you, Hogan. That’s all I can come up with right now without risking my account.

9 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:48:53am
The Mandarin crowd applauded.

At a Catholic church no less.

Equally disturbing.

10 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:49:11am

I wouldn’t unleash a horde of ravenous chihuahuas on Mike Hogan’s dangling man bits, but it may cross my mind.

ITS A JOKE!

11 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:49:27am

Applause? Seriously? I’m not even sure where the humor here is supposed to be. It’s the same as saying “Well, I’d never rape a woman, but the thought may cross my mind”. Is this where things stand today on abortion, where this kind of unfunny, disgusting ‘joke’ can get cheers inside a church?

Ugh, I have no regrets leaving the Church. Wasted enough of my life dealing with it.

12 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:51:05am

re: #8 commadore183

Oh, and fuck the people who laughed and applauded to that shit. Disgusting.

13 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:51:37am

“Just giving the audience what it wants”. Some bishop (Galeone) better get in front of this.

14 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:51:42am

I wouldn’t have expected the crowd to laugh or applaud. Catholics aren’t normally supportive of violence towards abortion clinics, at all. Normally it’s just the extreme fringe.

Weird.

15 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:52:14am

And that’s the part that gets me. Had he made his “joke” and been met with boos or even just dead silence, that would be one thing. But getting cheers and applause? Am I the only one who can taste the bile?

16 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:52:52am

re: #14 Obdicut

I wouldn’t have expected the crowd to laugh or applaud. Catholics aren’t normally supportive of violence towards abortion clinics, at all. Normally it’s just the extreme fringe.

Weird.

They got caught up in the moment.

17 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:52:59am

re: #14 Obdicut

I wouldn’t have expected the crowd to laugh or applaud. Catholics aren’t normally supportive of violence towards abortion clinics, at all. Normally it’s just the extreme fringe.

Weird.

With only 100 attending, he had the self-selected overzealous minority.

18 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:54:07am
This was an audience for this. This is a Catholic Church. I guarantee you they are 110 percent pro-life.

I don’t get the logic. People who are 110% “pro-life” are the right audience for a joke about trying to kill people?

19 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:54:09am
Hogan told a reporter afterward the joke was appropriate because “this is a Catholic church. I guarantee you they are 110 percent pro-life.”

But Pete Kelley, president of the parish’s men’s club and the forum moderator, didn’t find the joke funny or its explanation acceptable. Overall, he said, Hogan missed the point that being “pro-life” means being against violence against abortion providers as well as the unborn.

“The core principle is that life in all forms is to be held sacred, from birth until death,” Kelley said. “It’s not ours to judge those who don’t place that same level of respect on life.”

The audience applauded for Hogan when he finished speaking, but Kelley said he didn’t think that signaled their approval of the joke.

“It caught a lot of people off guard that anyone would make that comment,” he said.

From: Catholics: Mike Hogan wrong to think they’re OK with clinic bombing humor

20 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:55:16am

re: #17 Decatur Deb

With only 100 attending, he had the self-selected overzealous minority.

That would do it. I will admit that I found it odd for Catholics to respond in such a way (Although I let some of my person feelings towards the Church seep in with my previous comment…).

21 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:56:15am

re: #19 Gus 802

From: Catholics: Mike Hogan wrong to think they’re OK with clinic bombing humor

Translation: “Hey, just because we clapped, doesn’t mean we agree!”

22 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:57:05am

re: #19 Gus 802

From: Catholics: Mike Hogan wrong to think they’re OK with clinic bombing humor

Well, it’s good that some people were appalled — however:

Parishioner Brian Shields, founder of a Catholic media company in Jacksonville, agreed the joke was a blunder but cautioned against overreaction.

“There’s no reason to get so serious about the whole thing,” Shields said. “Honestly, sometimes we say things that maybe we could have said better.”

23 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:57:55am

Oh, I see. He’s a Baptist. He made a judgment about what Catholics would appreciate. But he wasn’t too far off:

Parishioner Brian Shields, founder of a Catholic media company in Jacksonville, agreed the joke was a blunder but cautioned against overreaction.

“There’s no reason to get so serious about the whole thing,” Shields said. “Honestly, sometimes we say things that maybe we could have said better.”

Hmm, how would you say that better?

24 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:58:08am

re: #20 Simply Sarah

That would do it. I will admit that I found it odd for Catholics to respond in such a way (Although I let some of my person feelings towards the Church seep in with my previous comment…).

It’s a huge church, and they have to run run 6-7 Sunday services:

Image: fullview.jpg

25 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:58:45am

re: #22 Charles

Well, it’s good that some people were appalled — however:

Yeah. I would expect a condemnation from the local diocese and St. Joseph’s leadership but I won’t hold my breath. Under the rug it will go.

26 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 10:59:11am

re: #22 Charles

Well, it’s good that some people were appalled — however:

Seems like damage control is in full tilt. They clapped because he’d finished speaking, not because of his “joke.” But they think he could have said his “joke” in “better” terms.

27 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:00:07am

Racism, misogyny, bigotry, homophobia, and nativism. It’s only a matter of time before the GOP and its associated get designated as a hate group.

28 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:00:40am

Thou shalt not joketh about bombing clinics.
/the missing commandment

29 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:00:41am

re: #25 Gus 802

Yeah. I would expect a condemnation from the local diocese and St. Joseph’s leadership but I won’t hold my breath. Under the rug it will go.

Unless someone links to the bishop’s website:

[Link: www.dosafl.com…]

30 jaunte  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:01:45am
Hogan added that the only thing he wouldn’t do was bomb an abortion clinic, then the law-and-order advocate added, with a laugh, “but it may cross my mind.”


One more example of a conservative pol sneaking up to the line and deliberately putting his toe over it for effect, and they think it’s deniable.

31 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:02:16am

re: #29 Decatur Deb

Unless someone links to the bishop’s website:

[Link: www.dosafl.com…]

Twitter account…

[Link: twitter.com…]

32 Tumulus11  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:02:28am
‘That was a joke.’

. Maybe Mr. Hogan would like to try out his jokes on the families of Eric Rudolph’s victims.

‘Rudolph has also confessed to the bombings of an abortion clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs on January 16, 1997, a gay and lesbian nightclub, the Otherside Lounge, in Atlanta on February 21, 1997, injuring five, and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing part-time security guard Robert Sanderson and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons. Rudolph’s bombs were made of dynamite surrounded by nails which acted as shrapnel.’

33 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:02:51am

Violent rhetoric has become mainstreamed. Nobody blinks anymore. They applaud.

Great.

34 Lidane  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:06:13am

I’m going to keep my mouth shut about what this guy said, lest I risk my account.

HOWEVER, it’s amazing to me how insane the GOP has gotten lately. Someone at Frum’s site said this about the Nebraska bill and I agree here— if this is the GOP’s idea of normal governance and normal political talk, I’m curious what kind of base-whipping red meat they come up with in 2012.

35 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:06:57am
Webb said he isn’t personally offended by Hogan’s jest as a member of St. Joseph, but as a Catholic wanted to stress “that being pro-life” means believing that life runs “from conception to natural death.”

I don’t get this. Has the Catholic church moved towards rejecting modern medicine? If not, what does he mean by a natural death?

Is there some sort of schism going on in Catholicism?

36 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:07:21am

What’s the difference between bin Laden calling for violence against Westerners and “pro-lifers” calling for violence against abortion providers? It’s both terrorism, but only one is denounced as such by the GOP. Guess which one.

37 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:07:23am

re: #8 commadore183

Taking a page from Limbaugh’s “satire”, I see.

Fuck you, Hogan. That’s all I can come up with right now without risking my account.

Same here.

Quoted for effect.

38 prairiefire  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:07:39am

more snow and ice, sigh

39 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:08:01am

re: #35 Obdicut

I don’t get this. Has the Catholic church moved towards rejecting modern medicine? If not, what does he mean by a natural death?

Is there some sort of schism going on in Catholicism?

He’s referring to a life not ending due to murder/suicide/euthanasia.

40 jamesfirecat  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:08:09am

re: #34 Lidane

I’m going to keep my mouth shut about what this guy said, lest I risk my account.

HOWEVER, it’s amazing to me how insane the GOP has gotten lately. Someone at Frum’s site said this about the Nebraska bill and I agree here— if this is the GOP’s idea of normal governance and normal political talk, I’m curious what kind of base-whipping red meat they come up with in 2012.

Clearly Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, Newt Gingrich, Glenn Beck, and Rush Limbaugh will be joining together into some sort of Conservazord….

41 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:08:35am

I want to stress: Most Catholics that I know— and I know plenty— wouldn’t have applauded this. Most Catholics I know want restrictions on abortions, but not outright criminalization of it.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:08:50am

re: #4 Alouette

Remember all the outrageous outrage when some left-wing “comedian” (Sarah Silverman?) made a “joke” about Sarah Palin getting gang-raped by a bunch of black men?

That sounds like Silverman. What a potty-mouth that girl has. Did you know her sister is a rabbi?

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:09:23am

re: #9 Gus 802

At a Catholic church no less.

Equally disturbing.

At my father’s parish, that wouldn’t have met with approval.

44 celticdragon  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:09:39am

re: #22 Charles

Parishioner Brian Shields, founder of a Catholic media company in Jacksonville, agreed the joke was a blunder but cautioned against overreaction.

“There’s no reason to get so serious about the whole thing,” Shields said. “Honestly, sometimes we say things that maybe we could have said better.”

Maybe he thinks clinic workers should just be shot like union protesters.

That would be better. Yeah.

/

45 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:10:13am

re: #39 Simply Sarah

He’s referring to a life not ending due to murder/suicide/euthanasia by being in or near a clinic when it’s bombed.

Altered it a bit.

46 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:12:17am

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

That sounds like Silverman. What a potty-mouth that girl has. Did you know her sister is a rabbi?

I just looked it up. Actually it was not Silverman who made that “joke,” it was Sandra Bernhard, even uglier and less funny.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:12:22am

re: #18 wrenchwench

I don’t get the logic. People who are 110% “pro-life” are the right audience for a joke about trying to kill people?

Yeah, don’t get that one. I’m ‘110%’ pro-choice, but if you start cracking jokes about terrorist acts against Operation Rescue, I am not going to be smiling and applauding.

48 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:13:49am

re: #41 Obdicut

I want to stress: Most Catholics that I know— and I know plenty— wouldn’t have applauded this. Most Catholics I know want restrictions on abortions, but not outright criminalization of it.

Oh, sure. Most Catholics (Of which I know quite a lot) aren’t remotely like this. They tend to hold far less regressive and ridged positions on these types of issues than the Church actually teaches (And the Church doesn’t support this sort of violence, last I checked).

49 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:13:52am

Maybe the crowd would respond even better if Hogan made the old Father Nelson joke.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:15:29am

re: #35 Obdicut

I don’t get this. Has the Catholic church moved towards rejecting modern medicine? If not, what does he mean by a natural death?

Is there some sort of schism going on in Catholicism?

Well, yes. But that’s a subject for another day.

I think he means that you’re not permitted to hasten the death, by, say, abortion or euthanasia.

While not permitting euthanasia, the Church does not require extreme measures—you’re allowed to turn the life support machines off.

51 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:16:01am

And just so I’m entirely clear, I have no issues with Catholics (Lay or otherwise) in general. My problems are with the Papacy and the structure around it.

52 webevintage  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:17:48am

re: #4 Alouette

Remember all the outrageous outrage when some left-wing “comedian” (Sarah Silverman?) made a “joke” about Sarah Palin getting gang-raped by a bunch of black men?

She did?
Well, that was a nasty line that was crossed.

BUT that is the job of comedians. They cross lines. They say things we won’t say and they say really offensive things.
The court jester and all.
Comedians can say things a politicians or Rush or me or you could (or should say) say in public and get away with it.

What she said was gross (did she really say that?) and disgusting but there is no comparison. Apples, oranges and all that.

53 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:19:33am

re: #52 webevintage

She did?
Well, that was a nasty line that was crossed.

BUT that is the job of comedians. They cross lines. They say things we won’t say and they say really offensive things.
The court jester and all.
Comedians can say things a politicians or Rush or me or you could (or should say) say in public and get away with it.

What she said was gross (did she really say that?) and disgusting but there is no comparison. Apples, oranges and all that.

Rotten apple, rotten orange.

54 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:19:50am

I don’t buy the 110% pro-life anyway. Miami has a lot of Catholics. We have a lot of Catholic schools and churches. I wouldn’t say pro-choice Catholics are the majority, but I’ve met many more in my life than I thought I ever would.

I’m sure there were people who were deeply offended at his “joke”.

55 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:24:38am

I have to say as someone who was baptized Catholic as well as attended CCD courses that I first felt a bit of disillusionment with the church when I saw the reality between what was preached and practiced. I am not an Atheist but I became very distrustful of organized religion as a result of those experiences. My dad’s parents I know broke with the church over the issue of birth control. My grandmother had six kids and not all those births were easy.

56 jaunte  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:24:38am

re: #54 marjoriemoon

I guess 110% means 10% over the top.

57 iossarian  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:24:51am

Can’t stop by for long today, but did people see this from Rolling Stone?

Army deploys psy-ops on Senators

Bizarre. The claim is that the Army was using its propaganda unit to persuade Senators to increase their support for the war in Afghanistan.

58 albusteve  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:24:58am

inflammatory joking?….rhetoric so outrageous that it’s own defense is it’s outrageousness?…mainstreaming mayhem?…I predict first amendment issues with this shit sooner than later…just a strong hunch

59 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:25:46am

re: #52 webevintage

She did?
Well, that was a nasty line that was crossed.

BUT that is the job of comedians. They cross lines. They say things we won’t say and they say really offensive things.
The court jester and all.
Comedians can say things a politicians or Rush or me or you could (or should say) say in public and get away with it.

What she said was gross (did she really say that?) and disgusting but there is no comparison. Apples, oranges and all that.

Concerning Palin, Silverman did “The Great Schlep” during the campaign in 2008. It was a gimmick/joke where she told all the college students to visit their grandparents and convince them not to vote for Palin, but I think that’s her only tie to her, joke-wise.

And I agree about comedians. I happen to like Sarah Silverman. Sarah Bernhardt, not so much.

60 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:25:53am

re: #54 marjoriemoon

I don’t buy the 110% pro-life anyway. Miami has a lot of Catholics. We have a lot of Catholic schools and churches. I wouldn’t say pro-choice Catholics are the majority, but I’ve met many more in my life than I thought I ever would.

I’m sure there were people who were deeply offended at his “joke”.

There are a lot of “Catholics by default” (Which basically describes me for most of my like). Born into a nominally Catholic family, baptized, go to CCD, get confirmed, go to Church on Sunday and Holy Week and Christmas, wedding in a Catholic church, go to confession sometimes, etc. But if you were to ask them what the Church’s stance was on most issues (Outside maybe abortion and gay marriage and such), they probably don’t know them or much care.

61 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:27:06am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

I have to say as someone who was baptized Catholic as well as attended CCD courses that I first felt a bit of disillusionment with the church when I saw the reality between what was preached and practiced. I am not an Atheist but I became very distrustful of organized religion as a result of those experiences. My dad’s parents I know broke with the church over the issue of birth control. My grandmother had six kids and not all those births were easy.

Leave it to religion to suck all the fun out of God.

62 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:27:18am

re: #60 Simply Sarah

Most of my life, even.

63 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:27:49am

re: #60 Simply Sarah

There are a lot of “Catholics by default” (Which basically describes me for most of my like). Born into a nominally Catholic family, baptized, go to CCD, get confirmed, go to Church on Sunday and Holy Week and Christmas, wedding in a Catholic church, go to confession sometimes, etc. But if you were to ask them what the Church’s stance was on most issues (Outside maybe abortion and gay marriage and such), they probably don’t know them or much care.

It’s culture I guess. For the longest time I identified with Catholicism since it was the faith of my ancestors, had a priest for a great uncle, and to this day I wear a St. Patrick medallion on my neck but still I’ve never gotten holy communion. I think if my parents , both raised by devout Catholics had their way I wouldn’t have been baptized at all.

64 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:28:33am

Back later.

65 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:29:37am

re: #63 HappyWarrior

It’s culture I guess. For the longest time I identified with Catholicism since it was the faith of my ancestors, had a priest for a great uncle, and to this day I wear a St. Patrick medallion on my neck but still I’ve never gotten holy communion. I think if my parents , both raised by devout Catholics had their way I wouldn’t have been baptized at all.

Well, it’s like a lot of faiths. There’s ritual to it and it starts at a young age. You grow up with it and, at least until you start getting older, probably don’t question it much. After that, it’s just a question of how you react.

66 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:29:48am

re: #61 marjoriemoon

Leave it to religion to suck all the fun out of God.

Yeah, it was more the self righteousness that did it for me. My parents as I’ve said weren’t religious and didn’t bring my brothers and I up in that way. Plus my dad especially was very frank on sexual matters and other things. So we got looked down a bit by some of the more holier families in the neighborhoods which reflected in their kids. Was still friends with those kids but they were always a little bit condescending since we weren’t religious and we sure as hell weren’t conservatives. My dad’s an old hippie after all :).

67 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:29:53am

Not very funny pastor, considering the context, and the strong pro-life audience listening to your little talk.

68 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:32:46am

re: #60 Simply Sarah

There are a lot of “Catholics by default” (Which basically describes me for most of my like). Born into a nominally Catholic family, baptized, go to CCD, get confirmed, go to Church on Sunday and Holy Week and Christmas, wedding in a Catholic church, go to confession sometimes, etc. But if you were to ask them what the Church’s stance was on most issues (Outside maybe abortion and gay marriage and such), they probably don’t know them or much care.

I definitely agree with that. Secular Catholicism maybe?

I don’t know if the people pushing all these social issues into our political discourse are the majority or not, but they sure are very vocal about it.

I’m not blowing off what this guy said. His audience seemed to find it humorous. I don’t know what to think.

69 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:37:06am

Crazy is as crazy does, I always say.

70 latitude51  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:37:39am

So, he was just joking. He wasn’t being serious, or he doesn’t want anyone to take him seriously. I mean he wouldn’t want anyone to believe that he believes what he believes. He was joking, but he means it. Or did he just mean it as a joke? Ah, it’s not like it matters. It’s not really a serious issue anyway, abortions and bombing and all that.

/

71 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:38:07am

re: #69 b_sharp

Crazy is as crazy does, I always say.

Like coating a slip and slide with mayonaise?

72 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:39:19am

re: #68 marjoriemoon

I definitely agree with that. Secular Catholicism maybe?

I don’t know if the people pushing all these social issues into our political discourse are the majority or not, but they sure are very vocal about it.

I’m not blowing off what this guy said. His audience seemed to find it humorous. I don’t know what to think.

I’d say secular Catholicism is probably a semi-reasonable term, although I think that’s more true in Europe than in the States. In the States, it’s still a religious belief in God and Jesus, but a lot of Catholics I’ve seen seem to be relatively unfocused on the Catholic Church itself, which is pretty weird when you think about it. Basically, I think many are more Christian than Catholic, so to speak.

73 Lidane  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:40:51am

re: #60 Simply Sarah

There are a lot of “Catholics by default” (Which basically describes me for most of my like). Born into a nominally Catholic family, baptized, go to CCD, get confirmed, go to Church on Sunday and Holy Week and Christmas, wedding in a Catholic church, go to confession sometimes, etc. But if you were to ask them what the Church’s stance was on most issues (Outside maybe abortion and gay marriage and such), they probably don’t know them or much care.

That was me until I was about 18 or so, then I decided to stop lying to myself. I turned my back on organized religion and on Catholicism and haven’t regretted that decision yet.

I haven’t set foot in a church aside from the occasional wedding or funeral since.

74 iossarian  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:42:59am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like coating a slip and slide with mayonaise?

Madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of this year’s Mr. Madman competition.

75 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:43:32am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like coating a slip and slide with mayonaise?

Tastes great and is less filling.

76 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:45:53am

OT Two Hrs 8 min until the Shuttle launches. Astronauts now onboard the Discovery. Just finished comm checks.

77 philosophus invidius  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:46:03am

A plan:
1) Make racist/sexist comment or a comment condoning violence
2) Wait for it to get in the papers.
3) Give your response:
    a) say it was a just a joke
    b) say that your free speech rights are being violated by the evil leftwing
      PC police
4) Become a hero to millions of idiots.

78 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:46:53am

Betcha he will now raise tons of cash and win by a landslide. I have no faith at all that these kinds of comments are politically hurtful for Republicans. In fact I’m certain it’s how they win.

79 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:47:59am

re: #76 Bubblehead II

3 video links paged

80 latitude51  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:48:23am

re: #77 philosophus invidius

It works. Far too often.

81 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:48:51am

The joys of someone forgetting to mute themselves on a 15 person concall.

When the term “dumbass” comes thru loud and clear and the awkward silence that follows and no one could tell who said it.

82 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:50:09am

re: #78 moderatelyradicalliberal

Betcha he will now raise tons of cash and win by a landslide. I have no faith at all that these kinds of comments are politically hurtful for Republicans. In fact I’m certain it’s how they win.

I think that’s true, but Obama won in 2008 in face of the crazy madness and I’m betting another win in 2012.

There’s always hope!

83 What, me worry?  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:50:49am

Ok, have to go make my life useful. I’ll taunt you all another time.

84 iossarian  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:51:10am

re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The joys of someone forgetting to mute themselves on a 15 person concall.

When the term “dumbass” comes thru loud and clear and the awkward silence that follows and no one could tell who said it.

My favorite is when someone mutes their line and the other 14 are left with the choice between:

A) all hanging up and dialing in again, or

B) enjoying an elevator music backing track to the rest of the conversation

85 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:52:13am

Libyan rebels in control of oil fields

Rebels in Libya have taken control of oil fields in selected regions that have seized control from leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi, according to local reports.

In Benghazi organisers have started sending oil into the city from fields in the area, to ensure residents in need receive sufficent quantities of gas and electricity.

Key oil production terminals Ras Lanuf and Marsa El Brega, located near to the east of capital,Tripoli, were being protected by rebels.

86 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:52:47am

I never know what to say in cases like this. Do I just let it go because we all say stupid things at times, do I assume a Freudian slip and thus get a torturous peek into another person’s psyche causing me to wretch all over the floor, or do I assume evil intent and call it as I see it?

In this case, I think this guy needs his sphincter stretched with his fat head.

87 mikefromArlington  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:53:02am

Ahh…

I just can’t get enough of bombing jokes these days. I could listen to them all day then go to confession and confess about wanting to eat chocolate before dinner. I just can’t give up my Satanic indulgent urges to stuff myself!

88 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:53:09am

A while back someone posted this at a forum:

[Link: www.beliefnet.com…]

It’s a quiz that helps you to figure out which religion your beliefs are in line with.

Just be warned, as they say, they assume no legal responsibility for the fate of your soul.

Also, I can’t see a way to come up “Cthulu.”

89 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:53:41am

re: #87 mikefromArlington

Ahh…

I just can’t get enough of bombing jokes these days. I could listen to them all day then go to confession and confess about wanting to eat chocolate before dinner. I just can’t give up my Satanic indulgent urges to stuff myself!

Chocolate before dinner is a sin? What about chocolate every half hour all day long? Am I going to hell?

90 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:54:21am

re: #82 marjoriemoon

I think that’s true, but Obama won in 2008 in face of the crazy madness and I’m betting another win in 2012.

There’s always hope!

Truthfully, I’m not worried about Obama’s ability to win reelection. I’m worried about whether or not he can win in a wave big enough to sweep some of the crazies back out to sea. In the meantime the TP/GOP is going to do a tremendous amount of damage and some of it will be irreversible.

On the other hand, I’ve always felt that the best way to discredit the TPers would be to let them govern or should I say, not govern for a while.

91 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:54:51am

re: #89 EmmmieG

Chocolate before dinner is a sin? What about chocolate every half hour all day long? Am I going to hell?

Being addicted to chocolate would be hell if it didn’t taste so damned good.

92 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:55:17am

re: #89 EmmmieG

Chocolate before dinner is a sin? What about chocolate every half hour all day long? Am I going to hell?

Beer and chocolate is awesome.

93 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:56:15am

re: #86 b_sharp

I never know what to say in cases like this. Do I just let it go because we all say stupid things at times, do I assume a Freudian slip and thus get a torturous peek into another person’s psyche causing me to wretch all over the floor, or do I assume evil intent and call it as I see it?

In this case, I think this guy needs his sphincter stretched with his fat head.

I don’t think it was a slip. He was clearly playing to an audience that he thought would dig it. He may have been wrong, but that’s what happened.

94 jaunte  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:57:24am

re: #86 b_sharp

“Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding”
— They Might Be Giants

95 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:57:56am

re: #94 jaunte

“Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you’re only kidding”
— They Might Be Giants

What if you stink palmed him?

96 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:58:02am

re: #86 b_sharp

I never know what to say in cases like this. Do I just let it go because we all say stupid things at times, do I assume a Freudian slip and thus get a torturous peek into another person’s psyche causing me to wretch all over the floor, or do I assume evil intent and call it as I see it?

In this case, I think this guy needs his sphincter stretched with his fat head.

I lean towards the middle option, except the slip wasn’t Freudian. He said he’d never do it, so he knows it’s wrong, but that it might cross his mind, so we know the idea tempts him. It is a peek into his psyche, and it does cause retching.

97 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:58:22am

re: #91 b_sharp

Being addicted to chocolate would be hell if it didn’t taste so damned good.

Also, CPS never published photos of kids walking around in four day old diapers, in houses full of filth, with empty fridges and mom passed out on the couch because of a chocolate addiction.

Okay, sure, sometimes she hides in the closet so she won’t have to share, but that’s about it.

98 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 11:59:40am

Everytime I read Benghazi, I think Fugazi and “Waiting Room” starts playing in my head.

Youtube Video
99 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:00:21pm

Making jokes about bombing abortion clinics is entirely harmless to lots of these people, heck, they’re prepared to legally defend and try to justify those who actually do bomb clinics.

100 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:01:05pm

re: #97 EmmmieG

Also, CPS never published photos of kids walking around in four day old diapers, in houses full of filth, with empty fridges and mom passed out on the couch because of a chocolate addiction.

Okay, sure, sometimes she hides in the closet so she won’t have to share, but that’s about it.

I’m eating chocolate right now, with peanut butter on a whole wheat tortilla. 70% cocoa content, also labeled as “strong dark chocolate”.

101 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:01:07pm

re: #96 wrenchwench

I lean towards the middle option, except the slip wasn’t Freudian. He said he’d never do it, so he knows it’s wrong, but that it might cross his mind, so we know the idea tempts him. It is a peek into his psyche, and it does cause retching.

It really is insight into his lack of insight on the matter.

He is not particularly unique in the matter. It is his behavior that is germane.

Think LBJ.

102 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:01:28pm

re: #101 researchok

Or Nixon for that matter

103 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:02:41pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

I’m eating chocolate right now, with peanut butter on a whole wheat tortilla. 70% cocoa content, also labeled as “strong dark chocolate”.

How very Republican, er, Freuduan….
//

104 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:03:04pm

PIMF

105 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:03:57pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

I’m eating chocolate right now, with peanut butter on a whole wheat tortilla. 70% cocoa content, also labeled as “strong dark chocolate”.

I remember seeing semi-sweet chocolate in Germany labelled as “halb-bitter”.

Why “half-bitter”? At first I thought it was a philosophical is-the-glass-half-full-or-half-empty thing.

Then someone explained that it was just a matter of marketing: cocoa powder was more expensive than sugar, they were stressing the higher content of cocoa powder in the “half-bitter” stuff.

106 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:04:25pm

re: #101 researchok

It really is insight into his lack of insight on the matter.

He is not particularly unique in the matter. It is his behavior that is germane.

Think LBJ.

re: #102 researchok

Or Nixon for that matter

Nixon and Johnson said stupid things, but I should look at their behavior? Am I missing something?

107 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:04:48pm

re: #104 researchok

PIMF

Maybe, but it won’t help you get rid of the body…

108 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:05:44pm

re: #105 ralphieboy

I remember seeing semi-sweet chocolate in Germany labelled as “halb-bitter”.

Why “half-bitter”? At first I thought it was a philosophical is-the-glass-half-full-or-half-empty thing.

Then someone explained that it was just a matter of marketing: cocoa powder was more expensive than sugar, they were stressing the higher content of cocoa powder in the “half-bitter” stuff.

Germans are always asking “how late is it”, so I’m not surprised they’d focus on the “bitter” part.

/halb

109 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:05:50pm

re: #106 wrenchwench

re: #102 researchok

Nixon and Johnson said stupid things, but I should look at their behavior? Am I missing something?

Yes.

Both were less than racially sensitive as they say, but both acted in appropriate ways in that regard.

110 Spocomptonite  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:07:22pm

What surprises me most is that people in a Catholic Church laughed and applauded.

But then I realized that the Church was probably just the venue, and it was probably just random people and not the congregation that was in attendance. The Catholic church/faith has it’s issues, but a whole congregation laughing and clapping at abortion terrorism jokes is at a whole other level.

111 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:08:58pm

re: #109 researchok

Yes.

Both were less than racially sensitive as they say, but both acted in appropriate ways in that regard.

And, according to the parallel, you expect Mike Hogan acts appropriately? Maybe if, as would fit the parallel, his remarks were made in private, not at a public campaign meeting. In this case, I count “speech” as an act, and he blew it.

112 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:11:18pm

re: #107 MrSilverDragon

Maybe, but it won’t help you get rid of the body…

PIAA? Preview is an acquaintance?

PIMFWF? Preview is my fair weather friend?

113 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:12:05pm

Tortilla is gone.

Back to work.

114 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:12:18pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

PIAA? Preview is an acquaintance?

PIMFWF? Preview is my fair weather friend?

BUP!

115 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:13:37pm

re: #111 wrenchwench

And, according to the parallel, you expect Mike Hogan acts appropriately? Maybe if, as would fit the parallel, his remarks were made in private, not at a public campaign meeting. In this case, I count “speech” as an act, and he blew it.

Not at all.

I was responding to your remark on what was probably his psychological ‘motive’ and how you interpreted it.

Personally, I think the guy is an idiot.

It never ceases to amaze how the GOP as of late has manged to find the world possible candidates to run for election.

The luckiest day in Harry Reid’s life was the day the GOP announced they were running Sharon Angle as his opponent. What a gift that lunatic was!

116 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:14:27pm

More PIMF - worst possible candidate.

117 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:16:58pm

I wonder what would happen if a Muslim running for office “joked” about bombing some place having crossed his mind?

Okay, I lied—I don’t wonder. //

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:18:07pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

I wonder what would happen if a Muslim running for office “joked” about bombing some place having crossed his mind?

Okay, I lied—I don’t wonder. //

Anybody running for anything shouldn’t joke about bombing anything. Unless we are in an actual war, in which case they should be serious.

119 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:18:31pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

I wonder what would happen if a Muslim running for office “joked” about bombing some place having crossed his mind?

Okay, I lied—I don’t wonder. //


Depends on where he ws running for office: Oman or Oklahoma…

120 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:18:42pm

re: #12 commadore183

Oh, and fuck the people who laughed and applauded to that shit. Disgusting.

Fuck anyone who didn’t walk out at that moment. You lie down with pigs long enough, and you are indistinguishable from the pigs.

Every person left sitting in that church after that statement is a piece of shit not worthy of my piss should i discover them on fire.

121 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:19:40pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

I wonder what would happen if a Muslim running for office “joked” about bombing some place having crossed his mind?

Okay, I lied—I don’t wonder. //

Remember that Muslim comic who came on stage and immediately announced he was taking flying lessons?

There was that pregnant pause…long pause…until they realized it was a joke.

122 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:21:00pm

re: #121 researchok

It all depends on who is listening and what they expect and want to hear.

123 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:22:18pm

Actually, the bombing we did at the beginning of the Afghan war, where we dropped in MRE’s?

Joke away.

124 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:22:48pm

re: #119 ralphieboy

Depends on where he ws running for office: Oman or Oklahoma…

What do you think would happen if he was in Oman?

125 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:25:33pm

re: #124 CuriousLurker

What do you think would happen if he was in Oman?

Cultural bias isn’t so easy to break. Here or anywhere else.

It is a decades long process.

126 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:26:45pm

re: #110 Spocomptonite

What surprises me most is that people in a Catholic Church laughed and applauded.

But then I realized that the Church was probably just the venue, and it was probably just random people and not the congregation that was in attendance. The Catholic church/faith has it’s issues, but a whole congregation laughing and clapping at abortion terrorism jokes is at a whole other level.

Even if they had been all from that church, it was a very small portion of the congregation. It’s a huge parish:

[Link: www.stjosephsjax.org…]

127 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:27:43pm

Let me start by saying I’m of multiple minds about this. Just about Everyone’s had awful thoughts. Most of us don’t admit those thoughts except in the closest company. Most of us don’t make a ‘joke’ out of them in public.

It sounds like Mr. Hogan felt that the audience would be receptive to his kidding on the square ‘joke’, because believe me, I don’t think he was joking about having those thoughts cross his mind.

The telling point? They were receptive to it, because there’s a growing and pervasive element of the anti-abortion movement that is becoming radicalized. They’re being bombarded, and dare I say it, brainwashed into believing that abortion is so wrong, so evil, that any means must be taken to stop it.

I don’t condemn Him for having the thoughts. I condemn the toxic atmosphere that has poisoned any effort at rational debate about abortion. I condemn the radicalization and polarization of the anti-abortion crowd. I condemn the cheap political manipulation behind him making that remark and the gullability of the people who continue to fall for it. and finally, I condemn the implied support jokes like that give to the people who are willing to go one step further and take thoughts into actions.

128 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:29:28pm

re: #127 bloodstar

Your magnanimity is admirable, but he deserves condemnation. Joking about murder from the pulpit is beyond the bounds of human decency.

129 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:29:33pm

re: #127 bloodstar


I condemn the toxic atmosphere that has poisoned any effort at rational debate about abortion. I condemn the radicalization and polarization of the anti-abortion crowd. I condemn the cheap political manipulation behind him making that remark and the gullability of the people who continue to fall for it. and finally, I condemn the implied support jokes like that give to the people who are willing to go one step further and take thoughts into actions.

No truer words.

130 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:32:28pm

re: #124 CuriousLurker

What do you think would happen if he was in Oman?


Gotcha. They don’t have abortion clinics in Oman…

131 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:32:33pm

re: #128 Fozzie Bear

Your magnanimity is admirable, but he deserves condemnation. Joking about murder from the pulpit is beyond the bounds of human decency.

No doubt he was out of bounds.

He was playing in the mud pile as other clergy have, from Farrakhan to Wright, to Pfleger to Phelps.

He deserves to be excoriated.

132 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:33:28pm

re: #125 researchok

Cultural bias isn’t so easy to break. Here or anywhere else.

It is a decades long process.

True, but I’m not about to get suckered in to getting all defensive by making some knee-jerk assumption about an ambiguous statement, and then ending up looking like a fool.

133 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:34:52pm

re: #130 ralphieboy

Gotcha. They don’t have abortion clinics in Oman…

They don’t? I wouldn’t know as I’ve never been there.

134 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:35:18pm

re: #131 researchok

No doubt he was out of bounds.

He was playing in the mud pile as other clergy have, from Farrakhan to Wright, to Pfleger to Phelps.

He deserves to be excoriated.

Not “other clergy” in this case—he’s a Baptist layman political candidate. Still deserves to be excoriated.

135 dragonfire1981  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:35:35pm

I would believe the applause. During the last election I attended a Tea Party event to hear a candidate speak. He made a comment that the US department of education should be permanently eliminated and got a standing ovation.

136 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:36:20pm

Just stole one of the Princess’s cupcakes.

Now I’m going to go and take a nap.

I’m bad.

137 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:36:59pm

Although, for the record, she made two dozen and not for a specific reason.

138 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:37:09pm

re: #132 CuriousLurker

True, but I’m not about to get suckered in to getting all defensive by making some knee-jerk assumption about an ambiguous statement, and then ending up looking like a fool.

I with you on that.

Further, there is no need for you to get defensive.

You are not responsible for the bad acts of others even if they say they are acting on your behalf. Anywhere. Period. No one can hold acts of others against you. Ever. To do so is about as immoral as immoral gets.

You are your own person.

139 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:38:08pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

Not “other clergy” in this case—he’s a Baptist layman political candidate. Still deserves to be excoriated.

He is playing in their mud pile- a choice he made.

140 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:39:01pm

re: #138 researchok

Thank you for that reminder. {researchok}

141 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:39:18pm

re: #137 EmmmieG

Although, for the record, she made two dozen and not for a specific reason.

I like getting cupcakes in the mail.

FYI.

142 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:40:04pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

I wonder what would happen if a Muslim running for office “joked” about bombing some place having crossed his mind?

Okay, I lied—I don’t wonder. //

Somebody would make a sarcastic comment about “religion of peace”.

143 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:40:55pm

re: #142 recusancy

Somebody would make a sarcastic comment about “religion of peace”.

They are all gone now. Thank goodness.

144 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:41:06pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

They are all gone now. Thank goodness.

Who?

145 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:42:14pm

re: #142 recusancy

Somebody would make a sarcastic comment about “religion of peace”.

And the wingnuts would go into a frenzy.

146 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:42:36pm

What can we do here in the US to speed things up so we look more like Scandinavia when it comes to religion? How is it these Vikings are so much smarter than us?

147 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:43:36pm

re: #140 CuriousLurker

Thank you for that reminder. {researchok}

Statement of fact.

We all have free will- our choices determine whether or not we are saints, sinners or a part of the great imperfect and wonderful group of people that does the best we can.

My daughter says I’m a hero. I have good friends and I’m close to my family. I may be no saint but that’s good enough for me.

148 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:43:57pm

re: #143 Stanley Sea

They are all gone now. Thank goodness.

It was Charles that consistently made those comments. They were the title to numerous blog posts.

149 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:44:33pm

re: #144 recusancy

Who?

Those who used that phrase all the freaking time.

150 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:45:37pm

re: #148 recusancy

I came after the great awakening. Only the posters were saying it in my time here.

151 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:45:57pm

re: #128 Fozzie Bear

Your magnanimity is admirable, but he deserves condemnation. Joking about murder from the pulpit is beyond the bounds of human decency.

I agree. and I’m sorry i didn’t make that clear as I was writing.

Maybe I’m being too nice, I just think he honestly doesn’t realize what power his words have. I harbor this strange idealistic dream that somehow, if we can just find a way to tone the rhetoric down, things will sort themselves out.

I hope Mike Hogan can’t comprehend that there is another side, with real people, who could be harmed by his ‘joke’ and I have this idea that maybe, we can remind him and other people of that.

My fear is that Mike Hogan knows that and doesn’t care. That he’s using the rhetoric in order to score a cheap point on purpose, instead of accidentally.

Since I don’t know his mind, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (which is might be a bad idea, but otherwise all this crap just makes me want to despair with sadness).

152 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:46:24pm

re: #150 Stanley Sea

I came after the great awakening. Only the posters were saying it in my time here.

Me too.

153 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:47:01pm

re: #147 researchok

Statement of fact.

We all have free will- our choices determine whether or not we are saints, sinners or a part of the great imperfect and wonderful group of people that does the best we can.

My daughter says I’m a hero. I have good friends and I’m close to my family. I may be no saint but that’s good enough for me.

QFT

154 S'latch  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:47:47pm

re: #150 Stanley Sea

You registered one week before recusancy.

155 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:50:27pm

T -15 and counting. Minor Thermal Tile damage around the Crew hatch during close out. Being evaluated

156 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:51:31pm

re: #154 Lawrence Schmerel

You registered one week before recusancy.

Ha!

157 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:52:48pm

re: #154 Lawrence Schmerel

You registered one week before recusancy.

Whippersnappers

158 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:52:54pm

re: #156 Stanley Sea

I just noticed you have a new avatar pic—I like it!

159 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:55:06pm

re: #133 CuriousLurker

They don’t? I wouldn’t know as I’ve never been there.

Since you press the point I will Google it to see that I am not just babbling unsubstantiated BS.

(some minutes later)

Hmm. Am not the best googler, but I cannot come up with one.

And considering that extramarital sex is punishable by law there, I can not imagine you will find a legal abortion clininc.

160 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:55:46pm

re: #158 CuriousLurker

I just noticed you have a new avatar pic—I like it!

I just noticed his profile links to an old Gatorade commercial. Lol.

161 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:56:26pm

re: #156 Stanley Sea

…and speaking of your avatar:

Waves of sleep wash over seagulls

As darkness falls and thoughts turn to slumber, waves of sleep wash over seagulls huddling against the elements. This is not poetry, but a discovery made by a scientist who has been studying sleep in bird colonies.

He found that seagulls learn from each other when it is safe to nod off, resulting in “waves of sleep” passing through seagull colonies as the birds enter differing states of vigilance.

162 S'latch  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:56:32pm

re: #156 Stanley Sea

I registered 3 hours and 37 minutes before you did, back on June 15, 2004.

Whippersnapper.

163 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:56:47pm

re: #158 CuriousLurker

I just noticed you have a new avatar pic—I like it!

It’s OLD! Need to dig up something else. I really want a nic change, but oh well, I must live with my decisions.

164 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:57:27pm

Here’s a good one:

Records Claim Fox News Chief Told Publisher to Lie

It was an incendiary allegation — and a mystery of great intrigue in the media world: After the publishing powerhouse Judith Regan was fired by HarperCollins in 2006, she claimed that a senior executive at its parent company, News Corporation, had encouraged her to lie to federal investigators two years before.

The investigators had been vetting Bernard B. Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner who had been nominated to become secretary of Homeland Security and who had had an affair with Ms. Regan.

The goal of the News Corporation executive, according to Ms. Regan, was to keep the affair quiet and protect the then-nascent presidential aspirations of former Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani, Mr. Kerik’s mentor and supporter.

It’s way better…

165 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:57:30pm

re: #161 publicityStunted

I wonder if you gave a seagull a drug that made it very sleepy, and put it with a bunch of other seagulls, would he cause the others to take a nap?

166 S'latch  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:57:42pm

Sorry Stanly Sea. That was supposed to be a reply to re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

167 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:58:24pm

re: #160 Fozzie Bear

I just noticed his profile links to an old Gatorade commercial. Lol.

“Naturally we called our stuff Gatorade) GO GATORS!

168 engineer cat  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:58:28pm

told an audience in a Catholic Church Monday night that he wouldn’t bomb an abortion clinic, “but it may cross my mind.”

sociopath humor is the latest thing and catching on quick

169 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:58:36pm

re: #163 Stanley Sea

It’s OLD! Need to dig up something else. I really want a nic change, but oh well, I must live with my decisions.

We could have a nic change for SS contest…

//

170 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:59:18pm

Food & Wine’s Best Pizza Spots in the U.S.

No pineapple mentions.
Portland gets 2 mentions. One of them if right near me but I’ve never been in.

171 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:59:20pm

re: #133 CuriousLurker


Found it: according to

[Link: www.womenonwaves.org…]

Abortions are illegal in Oman.

172 S'latch  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:59:24pm

re: #157 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think a whole lot of folks were registered back on June 15, 2004. I can’t remember why.

173 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:59:28pm

re: #165 Fozzie Bear

I wonder if you gave a seagull a drug that made it very sleepy, and put it with a bunch of other seagulls, would he cause the others to take a nap?

You’re scaring me.
//

174 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 12:59:48pm

Well, a little bit of good news from this area.

The guy who tried to torch the mosque in Arlington, TX last July has been caught, and he has already pled guilty to the crimes. Glaspell was arrested on Tuesday, and pled guilty yesterday.

Arlington man pleads guilty to setting fire at mosque

Henry Glaspell, 34, faces a maximum of 20 years in prison and a $250,000 fine for the hate-crime conviction. Sentencing is scheduled for July 11.

According to court documents, Glaspell admitted:

That he set fire to playground equipment at the Dar El-Eman Islamic Center during a series of acts directed at people of Arab or Middle Eastern descent.

That he stole and damaged mosque property, threw used cat litter at the front door of the mosque, and shouted racial or ethnic slurs at people there on multiple occasions.

That he hated people of Arab or Middle Eastern descent, but not necessarily because they were Muslim.

Of course, even with all of this, there will be people who will claim that he wasn’t committing a hate crime.

175 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:00:10pm

re: #160 Fozzie Bear

I just noticed his profile links to an old Gatorade commercial. Lol.

Decatur Deb is a he
Stanley Sea is a she
Who’s confused? Not me :)

176 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:00:23pm

re: #161 publicityStunted


Hey baby, you wanna sleep with me?

I’m not that kind of gull!

177 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:00:32pm

re: #174 RadicalModerate

No no, you have it all wrong. It’s a LOVE crime. He loves burning mosques.

178 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:00:58pm

re: #151 bloodstar

I agree. and I’m sorry i didn’t make that clear as I was writing.

Maybe I’m being too nice, I just think he honestly doesn’t realize what power his words have. I harbor this strange idealistic dream that somehow, if we can just find a way to tone the rhetoric down, things will sort themselves out.

I hope Mike Hogan can’t comprehend that there is another side, with real people, who could be harmed by his ‘joke’ and I have this idea that maybe, we can remind him and other people of that.

My fear is that Mike Hogan knows that and doesn’t care. That he’s using the rhetoric in order to score a cheap point on purpose, instead of accidentally.

Since I don’t know his mind, I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt (which is might be a bad idea, but otherwise all this crap just makes me want to despair with sadness).

It is the first. The lack of comprehension.

I say that not knowing anything about Mike Hogan. But most people aren’t sociopaths. However, we all have our own Monkeysphere, meaning that we generally recognise and empathise with only a tiny amount of people. How we feel about people outside our Monkeysphere depends very much on our cultural attitudes.

In centuries past, it was totally culturally acceptable to watch violence and murder in the public sphere, such as in public executions or the like. It was totally culturally acceptable to treat slaves like slaves, and people of other kinds as cattle or subhumans. Violence against those whose beliefs are different from yours? Just part of life. One of the successes of civilisation has been the change in cultural attitudes, the respect for humanity even if we cannot directly empathise with it.

Part of what makes the Conservative cult so shocking is that they have reversed the cultural progress of centuries. (Not are reversing, but reversed; it’s done.) These are people who have been culturally raised to know that treating people like slaves, violence against those who think different for no reason than their difference, and the like, is wrong. Yet now, after immersion in a echo chamber that erases this cultural civilisation and preaches demonisation of other humans (ie., liberals, foreigners, ‘them’), it is once more acceptable to contemplate violence against ‘them’. You can joke about it, you can talk about it, you can agree with others when they talk about it.

As humans, we can’t empathise with everyone. But we have come a long way in our cultural attitudes. The cult media has reversed that in a couple of decades. That’s the power of modern communications.

179 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:01:30pm

re: #175 publicityStunted

Me perpetually. Until or unless our nicknames have boobs or something drawn on them, I will continually forget.

My apologies to all whose genders I have mis-identified.

180 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:02:55pm

Rumor mill watch:

Khadafi isn’t dead, although rumors are floating that he was shot earlier today. The rumors sent oil prices sharply lower, but there’s no evidence to back up the news.

181 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:03:14pm

re: #159 ralphieboy

Since you press the point I will Google it to see that I am not just babbling unsubstantiated BS.

(some minutes later)

Hmm. Am not the best googler, but I cannot come up with one.

And considering that extramarital sex is punishable by law there, I can not imagine you will find a legal abortion clininc.

I’m not pressing anything. You made a statement as if it was fact, and I simply said I didn’t know as I’d never been to Oman (not have I ever searched for the info).

I’m not familiar with Omani laws, but extramarital sex isn’t the only reason women seek abortions. While abortion isn’t forbidden by Islamic law, I admit I’d be surprised if they did have abortion clinics in a society as conservative as Oman. I would guess that women who require the procedure most likely go to a hospital or private doctor.

182 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:03:47pm

re: #180 lawhawk

Rumor mill watch:

Khadafi isn’t dead, although rumors are floating that he was shot earlier today. The rumors sent oil prices sharply lower, but there’s no evidence to back up the news.

You know you are in trouble when markets respond positively to news of your death.

183 S'latch  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:03:50pm

re: #180 lawhawk

I wonder if Khadafi is pro-life.

184 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:04:17pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

Food & Wine’s Best Pizza Spots in the U.S.

No pineapple mentions.
Portland gets 2 mentions. One of them if right near me but I’ve never been in.

I’m in a good pizza free zone I guess.

185 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:04:36pm

re: #172 Lawrence Schmerel

I think a whole lot of folks were registered back on June 15, 2004. I can’t remember why.

IIRC, that’s around the time the site began to require registration. It’s about the time I quit reading it for a while, anyway, as I’d get frustrated reading a point of view with which I disagreed and not being able to respond.

Yep, just checked, and Charles was registered that day as well. Go figure.

186 M. Dubious  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:04:48pm

re: #146 SpaceJesus

What can we do here in the US to speed things up so we look more like Scandinavia when it comes to religion? How is it these Vikings are so much smarter than us?

It’s the mjød.

187 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:05:02pm

re: #183 Lawrence Schmerel

I wonder if Khadafi is pro-life.

Sure, His. Other People?, not so much.

188 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:05:23pm

re: #163 Stanley Sea

It’s OLD! Need to dig up something else. I really want a nic change, but oh well, I must live with my decisions.

I have some seagull pics I took last year. I’ll send them to you, and if you like one of them you can use it.

189 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:05:39pm

re: #184 Stanley Sea

I’m in a good pizza free zone I guess.

It happens. You couldn’t get a decent burrito here in Portland until fairly recently.

190 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:06:26pm

re: #171 ralphieboy

Found it: according to

[Link: www.womenonwaves.org…]

Abortions are illegal in Oman.

Interesting. They’re even more restrictive than sharia.

191 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:06:43pm

My town has no decent pizzerias, but we have about 20 Lebanese restaurants, most of them excellent. Go figure.

192 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:06:47pm

I thought this was an Onion headline at first:

Shanghai announces ‘one-dog policy’

The city of Shanghai - which already follows China’s one-child policy - has announced a new rule for households. From May a one-dog policy will be introduced, and more than 600,000 unlicensed dogs will be declared illegal.

193 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:07:55pm

re: #184 Stanley Sea

I’m in a good pizza free zone I guess.


If you want good pizza, learn to make it. Not the least reason is that you can finally get it the way YOU want it. After all, umami is in the mouth of the taster.

194 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:09:22pm

re: #170 Killgore Trout

A bunch in NYC - and I can’t say I’ve been to all of ‘em. I think they missed a couple in NYC though (John’s on Bleecker for example), but the ones they did mention have quite the rep.

Interesting that by and large all of the pizzas mentioned are thin crust - not the deep dish variety.

195 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:09:30pm

re: #193 kirkspencer

Preheating the pan is key to a crispy crust, imo. If you put it in on a cold pan, it just doesn’t toast it the same way.

196 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:10:34pm

Those people don’t even pretend to be anything but barbarians any more, do they?

197 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:11:06pm

re: #195 Fozzie Bear

Pan? Pizza stone… that’s the way to go…

198 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:11:07pm

re: #172 Lawrence Schmerel

I think a whole lot of folks were registered back on June 15, 2004. I can’t remember why.

Thats the first day anyone could register.

199 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:12:23pm

re: #175 publicityStunted

Decatur Deb is a he
Stanley Sea is a she
Who’s confused? Not me :)

There are no women on the internet and all children are FBI agents.

200 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:13:37pm

re: #195 Fozzie Bear

Preheating the pan is key to a crispy crust, imo. If you put it in on a cold pan, it just doesn’t toast it the same way.


That works. Or if you’re using a baking stone in a hot oven you get the same effect. Assuming, that is, you want a crisp crust.

When I make pizza at home, my wife gets a flat, thin, crisp crust done on a stone. I get a deep, which I make in a cast iron skillet. My daughter gets calzones, which are started on a cold sheet. Guests … depends on what they want.

201 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:14:36pm

Has anyone seen or heard from Slumbering Behemoth lately? He’s been MIA for a while now… I miss him.

202 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:15:20pm

re: #201 CuriousLurker

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing - his last post was nearly a month ago.

203 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:15:55pm

Holy shit. Check out this billboard.

204 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:16:01pm

re: #194 lawhawk

A bunch in NYC - and I can’t say I’ve been to all of ‘em. I think they missed a couple in NYC though (John’s on Bleecker for example), but the ones they did mention have quite the rep.

Interesting that by and large all of the pizzas mentioned are thin crust - not the deep dish variety.

I think the only deep dish pie mentioned was in Chicago.

205 Stanghazi  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:18:09pm

re: #203 recusancy

Holy shit. Check out this billboard.

WOW

206 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:18:13pm

re: #202 publicityStunted

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing - his last post was nearly a month ago.

I hope he’s just on vacation or taking a break and everything’s okay.

207 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:18:43pm

re: #179 Fozzie Bear

Me perpetually. Until or unless our nicknames have boobs or something drawn on them, I will continually forget.

My apologies to all whose genders I have mis-identified.

Guilty of a bit of misgenderization on occasion myself, am I.

208 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:18:45pm

re: #203 recusancy

Posted that as a page yesterday…

209 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:20:09pm

*Sigh* I’ve gotta get back to work. BBL…

210 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:20:17pm

re: #203 recusancy

Holy shit. Check out this billboard.

Wow that is deeply fucked up.

It’s almost like the GOP has engaged in an all-out get-out-the-vote effort for the DNC. Do they not realize this shit will bite them in the ass?

211 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:20:55pm

re: #203 recusancy

Disgusting.

212 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:21:04pm

The ignorant masses. 48% of people think (or are not sure whether) the health care law has been repealed.

213 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:21:44pm

re: #207 b_sharp

Guilty of a bit of misgenderization on occasion myself, am I.

Seriously, we have a female nicknamed Stanley and a male nicknamed Deb. It’s confusing, lol.

214 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:23:21pm

re: #212 recusancy

The ignorant masses. 48% of people think (or are not sure whether) the health care law has been repealed.

Well, we voted in November for that angry guy, and we heard something about a judge, so its cool now, right?

/

215 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:25:57pm

21 minutes to launch. Weather is green. Everything is go.

Watch here: [Link: www.nasa.gov…]

216 b_sharp  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:25:59pm

re: #213 Fozzie Bear

Seriously, we have a female nicknamed Stanley and a male nicknamed Deb. It’s confusing, lol.

I gave up a while back and will just call everyone ‘hey you’ from now on.

I am considering changing my nick to ‘Spring Chicken’ so everyone knows I don’t get sex.

217 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:26:18pm

G.M. reported an annual profit. First time they’ve done that since ‘04. Union employees get profit sharing checks. I guess next time a Republican says the government can’t do anything right nobody will listen to them, right? Right??

218 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:27:37pm

Uh oh.

219 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:28:40pm

Range is red. No go. Problem with central command computer.

Poll coming up.

220 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:28:57pm

re: #212 recusancy

The ignorant masses. 48% of people think (or are not sure whether) the health care law has been repealed.

This reminds me of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal.

221 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:29:11pm

re: #215 Gus 802

Range safety is RED, due to an issue with the Range Safety computer.

222 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:29:35pm

re: #131 researchok

No doubt he was out of bounds.

He was playing in the mud pile as other clergy have, from Farrakhan to Wright, to Pfleger to Phelps.

He deserves to be excoriated.

Is that a magical balance fairy I see? (and btw, we could put quite a few basically mainstream conservative religious figures on that list, not just extremists).

Anyway, I know this won’t be a popular viewpoint, but I actually think the reaction to this is disproportionate, just as it was with Wright. The guy is a dick, undoubtedly, said something stupid, undoubtedly, but I think it is quite unlikely that he really supports the bombing of abortion clinics, and I think it is highly unlikely that people in the audience who might have snickered at his remark would do so either. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

I just think that there’s enough room to argue the issues on their merits and that little is gained by making too much out of this kind of issue. Beside the fact that it doesn’t go anywhere (Walker being duped in that interview yesterday being a case in point), it primarily just fuels the fire of the other side. They just come back with examples like the representative in MA who said something yesterday about blood in the streets.

223 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:29:35pm

re: #213 Fozzie Bear

Seriously, we have a female nicknamed Stanley and a male nicknamed Deb. It’s confusing, lol.

I find those situations tend to be the most confusing. User names that are totally neutral tend to lack that potential for cognitive dissonance.

224 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:30:44pm

re: #221 Bubblehead II

Range safety is RED, due to an issue with the Range Safety computer.

Yep. We’ll find out in a few minutes.

225 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:32:15pm

re: #200 kirkspencer

That works. Or if you’re using a baking stone in a hot oven you get the same effect. Assuming, that is, you want a crisp crust.

When I make pizza at home, my wife gets a flat, thin, crisp crust done on a stone. I get a deep, which I make in a cast iron skillet. My daughter gets calzones, which are started on a cold sheet. Guests … depends on what they want.

I am poor and have no stone. :(

I also think its hilarious that it can be possible for someone to be too poor to afford what is essentially a rock. HAHAHAHAHAHA

226 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:33:11pm

re: #222 Talking Point Detective

Is that a magical balance fairy I see? (and btw, we could put quite a few basically mainstream conservative religious figures on that list, not just extremists).

Anyway, I know this won’t be a popular viewpoint, but I actually think the reaction to this is disproportionate, just as it was with Wright. The guy is a dick, undoubtedly, said something stupid, undoubtedly, but I think it is quite unlikely that he really supports the bombing of abortion clinics, and I think it is highly unlikely that people in the audience who might have snickered at his remark would do so either. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

I just think that there’s enough room to argue the issues on their merits and that little is gained by making too much out of this kind of issue. Beside the fact that it doesn’t go anywhere (Walker being duped in that interview yesterday being a case in point), it primarily just fuels the fire of the other side. They just come back with examples like the representative in MA who said something yesterday about blood in the streets.


So you are saying his single remark is less significant? That he ought not be excoriated?

227 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:33:34pm

Planning on letting the count down go to T -5 before holding if Range Safety is still Red.

228 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:33:41pm

Countdown, countdown. Why is the image flipping?

229 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:34:15pm

re: #217 recusancy

G.M. reported an annual profit. First time they’ve done that since ‘04. Union employees get profit sharing checks. I guess next time a Republican says the government can’t do anything right nobody will listen to them, right? Right??

Yeah, it looks like GM is going to be ok for the time being and the Gov. will probably make a nice profit when we sell off the rest of our shares. Back when LGF was still a “right wing blog” it was very frustrating talking to conservative about the bailouts and stimulus. They absolutely refused to acknowledge any possibility that these things might work. The entire conservative movement just couldn’t bring themselves to accept the fact that the economy might recover. They failed to plan for an economic recovery and it’s going to hurt them in future elections.

230 webevintage  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:35:26pm

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

The Westboro Baptist Church recently made claims that Anonymous is targeting them and has pointed to a letter allegedly written by the group warning of attack against the church if they continue to protest at funerals. Westboro Baptist Church, led by the Rev. Fred Phelps, has drawn much media attention in the past for their fervent anti-gay stance and protests at the funerals of military servicemen displaying that belief.
During a live radio interview on The David Pakman Show, a source claiming to be from Anonymous called in to confront church spokesperson Shirley Phelps-Roper from the Westboro Baptist Church, saying that the letter was not in fact real. The caller then proceeded to hack a Westboro Baptist Church-owned website during the interview (which you can hear at 8:24 in the above video).

231 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:35:41pm

re: #225 Fozzie Bear

I am poor and have no stone. :(

I also think its hilarious that it can be possible for someone to be too poor to afford what is essentially a rock. HAHAHAHAHAHA

Go into Home Depot and buy a large unglazed tile. Should cost about 6-7 bucks at most..

232 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:37:35pm

Go, go, go, go…

233 webevintage  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:38:02pm

We’ve had the pizza discussion before.
I’m a pretty damn good cook, but making a decent pizza evades me.

Maybe my oven just does not get hot enough.
I have seen some recipe for cooking under the broiler…but then there is the whole “my crust never wants to do what I want it to do” annoyance.

234 Kruk  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:38:11pm

re: #176 ralphieboy

Hey baby, you wanna sleep with me?

I’m not that kind of gull!

The only gul I would turn gay for is Gul Dukat…

(Still bitter about how that character was treated in the last few seasons of DS-9).

235 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:38:35pm

Range has no concern for launch.

236 M. Dubious  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:38:38pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it looks like GM is going to be ok for the time being and the Gov. will probably make a nice profit when we sell off the rest of our shares. Back when LGF was still a “right wing blog” it was very frustrating talking to conservative about the bailouts and stimulus. They absolutely refused to acknowledge any possibility that these things might work. The entire conservative movement just couldn’t bring themselves to accept the fact that the economy might recover. They failed to plan for an economic recovery and it’s going to hurt them in future elections.

Yup. They went all in, betting on a limp horse.

237 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:38:39pm

re: #232 Gus 802

SRO is still a no go. Will hold at T -5.

238 opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:38:51pm

On the substance of the speech at the Catholic Church, I will applaud the day that Roe v. Wade is overturned. It removes the last single carrot keeping people voting for Republican politicians. Lower and middle class people don’t vote for Republicans because they want to see their wages and salaries decline, their unions busted, the social safetynet weakened or eliminated, infrastructure let to fall into disrepair, and the rich get richer. They vote for Republicans based upon “social issues” like abortion. I think the other hot issue of gay rights has pretty much run its course in keeping people voting for Republicans, so all that is left is abortion. Once it goes, then what does the Republican party have to offer lower and middle class people?

Oh…and on the issue of abortion - women were getting abortions long before Roe v. Wade was decided. They’ll just go back to getting them that way if Roe v. Wade is overturned. Heck, in many states, getting an abortion will be as easy or difficult as it is today anyway.

239 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:39:58pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

Yeah, it looks like GM is going to be ok for the time being and the Gov. will probably make a nice profit when we sell off the rest of our shares. Back when LGF was still a “right wing blog” it was very frustrating talking to conservative about the bailouts and stimulus. They absolutely refused to acknowledge any possibility that these things might work. The entire conservative movement just couldn’t bring themselves to accept the fact that the economy might recover. They failed to plan for an economic recovery and it’s going to hurt them in future elections.

I’m hopeful, but cautious.

This is one year. Taxpayers have yet to be paid back and rather than sit on the cash for a rainy day, GM is making disbursements.

See this Market Watch report.

Also, see this

240 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:40:41pm

re: #233 webevintage

We’ve had the pizza discussion before.
I’m a pretty damn good cook, but making a decent pizza evades me.

Maybe my oven just does not get hot enough.
I have seen some recipe for cooking under the broiler…but then there is the whole “my crust never wants to do what I want it to do” annoyance.

This is hard to admit, but until I found where my local grocery store was selling dough and sauce from the bake-it-yourself place at the front, I couldn’t make a decent pizza, either.

My crust was always bland.

241 Interesting Times  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:41:06pm

re: #222 Talking Point Detective

Beside the fact that it doesn’t go anywhere (Walker being duped in that interview yesterday being a case in point)

Really?

Madison police chief troubled by Walker’s comments on protesters

242 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:42:33pm

re: #233 webevintage

We’ve had the pizza discussion before.
I’m a pretty damn good cook, but making a decent pizza evades me.

Maybe my oven just does not get hot enough.
I have seen some recipe for cooking under the broiler…but then there is the whole “my crust never wants to do what I want it to do” annoyance.

I think the max temp in residential ovens is 550 (or maybe 650, I forget). The secret to a good crust is your baking sheet )or baking stone needs to be hot so keep it in the oven while it preheating. With a little trial and error you could figure it out. I spent years experimenting with home bread making with lots of failures.

243 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:42:43pm

re: #212 recusancy

The ignorant masses. 48% of people think (or are not sure whether) the health care law has been repealed.

Sounds good.

Seriously, it’d be great if cultists believed healthcare reform was repealed. They’ll never know the difference, really. And when they aren’t bankrupted for getting sick, or when they go to a doctor and they are covered under universal health care, they can smugly chuckle and think how great it was that good Americans stuck it to Obama and made their health care better.

244 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:42:44pm

re: #240 EmmmieG

This is hard to admit, but until I found where my local grocery store was selling dough and sauce from the bake-it-yourself place at the front, I couldn’t make a decent pizza, either.

My crust was always bland.

Fire brick is about $1.20 a piece.

Great stuff.

245 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:42:54pm

re: #226 researchok

So you are saying his single remark is less significant? That he ought not be excoriated?

Not exactly. He should be called out for making a stupid remark. It is important to maintain the discussion about how we all let our partisanship drive is into the hyperbolic.

But saying that everyone who didn’t immediately walk out is a dick, or saying that in his heart he really wants to bomb abortion clinics is, I think, over the top. And I think there needs to be a sense of balance in how comments like his are called into question. When the reaction is over the top, people on one side or the other only dig in deeper, defend themselves even more blindly. Ask him why he said something so stupid, with the assumption that he doesn’t support bombing abortion clinics, rather than than asking him whether he supports bombing abortion clinics, let alone assuming that he does.

Again, I look at the whole Reverend Wright kerfuffle (that took place at this site among many) as a pretty good example of how NOT to respond to this kind of situation.

246 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:43:47pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

With the GM stock trading below the IPO price, the government selling the stock at a profit isn’t going to happen. The breakeven point is quite a bit higher than even the IPO price. As long as the price remains at or below the IPO point, a quick sale of the remaining government shares wont happen without the government taking another loss.

The higher oil prices aren’t helping matters, and the reports about GM also indicate that the company is again resorting to higher incentives to bring sales - driving down the profit per vehicle. That’s a real bad sign.

247 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:43:58pm

re: #238 opal

You’re kidding, right? Roe gets overturned and there will be all the more reason to vote based on abortion, since it will be something that could actually be made mostly/totally (Depending on the nature of the ruling) illegal. Besides, they will want to protect their ‘gains’ and will, therefore, not give up on it.

As for access to abortions…you want to further degrade the safety of women seeking one by forcing her into some totally unregulated illegal practice? I mean, sure those with money will always be able to find somewhere to go that’s safe, but that’s the small minority. And saying they won’t be any harder to get than they are today only reflects on the horrible shape abortion access in currently in.

248 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:44:17pm

re: #245 Talking Point Detective

Not exactly. He should be called out for making a stupid remark. It is important to maintain the discussion about how we all let our partisanship drive is into the hyperbolic.

But saying that everyone who didn’t immediately walk out is a dick, or saying that in his heart he really wants to bomb abortion clinics is, I think, over the top. And I think there needs to be a sense of balance in how comments like his are called into question. When the reaction is over the top, people on one side or the other only dig in deeper, defend themselves even more blindly. Ask him why he said something so stupid, with the assumption that he doesn’t support bombing abortion clinics, rather than than asking him whether he supports bombing abortion clinics, let alone assuming that he does.

Again, I look at the whole Reverend Wright kerfuffle (that took place at this site among many) as a pretty good example of how NOT to respond to this kind of situation.

How about Farrakhan?

249 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:44:23pm

Access Arm Retracting. SRO is still Red. T -5 hold still in effect.

250 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:44:47pm

re: #222 Talking Point Detective

Anyway, I know this won’t be a popular viewpoint, but I actually think the reaction to this is disproportionate, just as it was with Wright. The guy is a dick, undoubtedly, said something stupid, undoubtedly, but I think it is quite unlikely that he really supports the bombing of abortion clinics, and I think it is highly unlikely that people in the audience who might have snickered at his remark would do so either. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

I could not disagree more. These kinds of “jokes” are the soil in which violent extremism grows. When GOP politicians do this kind of thing, they’re signaling to the radicals that they’re going to look the other way.

Sure, Hogan himself probably doesn’t support bombing clinics, but he’s giving a nod and a wink to those who do. He is FAR from the only politician who does this; it’s very common on the right wing.

And the right wing base is getting the message, in spades: Bad Craziness Watch: Right Wing Reaction to the Tiller Murder.

251 darthstar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:45:31pm

Gaddafi’s been shot? If so, he’s got no assets…the Swiss froze ‘em.

[Link: blogs.forbes.com…]

252 webevintage  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:45:41pm

re: #238 opal

Oh…and on the issue of abortion - women were getting abortions long before Roe v. Wade was decided. They’ll just go back to getting them that way if Roe v. Wade is overturned. Heck, in many states, getting an abortion will be as easy or difficult as it is today anyway.

I had this argument with my teenager (I know, arguing with a teenage man/boy is just a waste of time) the other day.
He’s annoyed that people would vote for Republicans just because of abortion and said if abortion would go away then there would be way less TEAGopers to deal with. I saw the beginning logic of his point but had to help him understand why reproductive rights are important.
We had to have a long discussion about coat hangers and dead women and equal rights. Not sure where he stands now, but…..

253 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:45:42pm

re: #239 researchok

from you second link…..

The stock has rebounded to $32.91 in recent trading.

The government has recovered $23.1 billion of its GM bailout. The government would have to sell its remaining shares at around $53 each to break even.

Goolsbee said the government would not engage in “market timing” to try to boost taxpayer returns by holding GM stock longer than necessary.


Ah, looks like we’re going to take a loss on that one.

254 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:45:57pm

re: #241 publicityStunted

Really?

Madison police chief troubled by Walker’s comments on protesters

How much of a hit do you think that Walker took on that interview? Do you think that it significantly affected the fight about the anti-union bill?

Watch the Fox News interview with him about the bogus interview. I highly doubt that anyone on his side on the issue will be swayed to any degree whatsoever. For folks on the other side it’s evidence that he’s a dick, but we already knew that.

255 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:46:59pm

Count Down stopped. Very small launch window. They either get it fixed in 2 min or it’s a scrub.

256 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:47:48pm

Launch is a go!!!!!!!!

257 Obdicut  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:48:01pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

I was in Italy with my mom a long time ago, having pizza. I know pizza wasn’t really a big thing in Italy originally, but they certainly adopted it with a zest once every American tourist wanted to have it.

Anyway, we were at one place where the crust was just perfect, just a bit of chew, very crisp, absolutely perfect.

My mom asked how hot the oven was.

The waiter said it was four hundred fifty degrees.

We thought “Well, that’s not that high— oh right, Celsius.”

832 degrees fahrenheit.

258 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:48:14pm

Got it fixed. Launch is now a go.

259 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:48:22pm

re: #248 researchok

How about Farrakhan?

I feel a bit differently about Farrakhan, as I do about someone like Pat Robertson: they do have a significant impact on issues.

Honestly, my immediate reaction is that the reaction to Farrakhan is more disproportionate than the reaction to Robertson. Clearly, Robertson influences exponentially more people - but I need to think more whether my viewpoint there is colored by my political orientation.

260 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:49:30pm

re: #253 Killgore Trout

from you second link…


Ah, looks like we’re going to take a loss on that one.

Yup.

And there is a limit to how many more cars the government will order this year.

And we’ve added on a whole new layer of legacy costs.

I don’t have any answers.

261 rwdflynavy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:50:04pm

re: #257 Obdicut

I was in Italy with my mom a long time ago, having pizza. I know pizza wasn’t really a big thing in Italy originally, but they certainly adopted it with a zest once every American tourist wanted to have it.

Anyway, we were at one place where the crust was just perfect, just a bit of chew, very crisp, absolutely perfect.

My mom asked how hot the oven was.

The waiter said it was four hundred fifty degrees.

We thought “Well, that’s not that high— oh right, Celsius.”

832 degrees fahrenheit.

I love Italian pizza. Best I ever had was a place called Pizza a Metro (Pizza by the meter) in Sorrento. Yummy!!!

262 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:50:25pm

T -3

263 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:50:27pm

re: #257 Obdicut

Dang Fahrenheit. I never parse it.

264 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:50:30pm

re: #257 Obdicut

I was in Italy with my mom a long time ago, having pizza. I know pizza wasn’t really a big thing in Italy originally, but they certainly adopted it with a zest once every American tourist wanted to have it.

Anyway, we were at one place where the crust was just perfect, just a bit of chew, very crisp, absolutely perfect.

My mom asked how hot the oven was.

The waiter said it was four hundred fifty degrees.

We thought “Well, that’s not that high— oh right, Celsius.”

832 degrees fahrenheit.

Heh. I’ve had my Big Green Egg up to about 750 before with no problem.

265 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:51:51pm

Removing the vent Cap and moving it away. T -2

266 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:52:20pm

re: #253 Killgore Trout

from you second link…


Ah, looks like we’re going to take a loss on that one.

Profit or not the objective was achieved. GM can stand on it’s own. Tons of jobs were saved and we’re getting at least a decent portion of our investment back.

267 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:52:38pm

re: #259 Talking Point Detective

I feel a bit differently about Farrakhan, as I do about someone like Pat Robertson: they do have a significant impact on issues.

Honestly, my immediate reaction is that the reaction to Farrakhan is more disproportionate than the reaction to Robertson. Clearly, Robertson influences exponentially more people - but I need to think more whether my viewpoint there is colored by my political orientation.

Fair enough.

Funny thing is, I used to be more tolerant about these things.

A years of LGF and I find myself less tolerant of any kind of bigotry, from the right or the left.

There isn’t a single example of really bad acts that have not been preceded by really bad rhetoric.

268 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:53:24pm

Almost launch….

269 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:53:29pm

Main Engine Start.

270 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:53:41pm

Go Baby Go!!!!

271 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:53:51pm

The countdown clock at the Shuttle page is going backwards.

272 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:13pm

It already launched. You must be on a delayed feed.

273 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:16pm

Watching that liftoiff never gets old.

274 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:26pm

re: #271 Gus 802

The countdown clock at the Shuttle page is going backwards.

I assume it’s just showing T+ now.

275 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:29pm

Looking Good.

276 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:42pm

re: #250 Charles

I could not disagree more. These kinds of “jokes” are the soil in which violent extremism grows. When GOP politicians do this kind of thing, they’re signaling to the radicals that they’re going to look the other way.

Sure, Hogan himself probably doesn’t support bombing clinics, but he’s giving a nod and a wink to those who do. He is FAR from the only politician who does this; it’s very common on the right wing.

And the right wing base is getting the message, in spades: Bad Craziness Watch: Right Wing Reaction to the Tiller Murder.

Those signals are coming through loud and strong outside of this kind of joke. Focusing on this is a weak strategy - easily defended, and in the end, unproductive as it only drives away people who might be swayed. People on the fence aren’t going to respond well to the insinuation that he or the people listening to him speak support bombing abortion clinics.

Go after Bill O’Reilly. He actually does damage on this issue.

277 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:56pm

Terrific images

278 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:58pm

Throttle Up.

279 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:54:58pm

re: #274 Simply Sarah

I assume it’s just showing T+ now.

No, it’s going backwards. It’s over 8 minutes now.

280 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:55:44pm

Booster Separation.

281 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:55:50pm

re: #279 Gus 802

No, it’s going backwards. It’s over 8 minutes now.

OK, that’s rather bizarre and confusing!

282 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:56:10pm

re: #279 Gus 802

No, it’s going backwards. It’s over 8 minutes now.

Must be counting in Arabic or Hebrew, right to left….

//

283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:56:50pm

Backpedaling should be a contact sport.

284 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:56:54pm

Fierce Gun Fight in Benghazi

Liveleak Video
285 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:57:14pm

Hooray! A good launch!

286 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:57:50pm

Speaking of hot, did you see those engines?

287 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:58:12pm

Image: chan2large.jpg

288 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:58:32pm

re: #267 researchok

Fair enough.

Funny thing is, I used to be more tolerant about these things.

A years of LGF and I find myself less tolerant of any kind of bigotry, from the right or the left.

There isn’t a single example of really bad acts that have not been preceded by really bad rhetoric.

I’m not suggesting tolerance of bigotry. I’m struggling with how to react in a way that is reflective of my disgust but that also works within a larger frame. In other words, it was a disgusting joke but I don’t think that it lends much credence to the assumption that he supports bombing abortion clinics. When you make that insinuation, IMO, your criticism loses credibility.

289 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:58:33pm

Just saw something fall off either the Shuttle or the external fuel tank. Didn’t look like it hit anything.

290 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:58:41pm

I don’t think there is a more awesome sight than a shuttle launch. Just a thing of beauty to me.

291 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:58:44pm

re: #276 Talking Point Detective

Those signals are coming through loud and strong outside of this kind of joke. Focusing on this is a weak strategy - easily defended, and in the end, unproductive as it only drives away people who might be swayed. People on the fence aren’t going to respond well to the insinuation that he or the people listening to him speak support bombing abortion clinics.

Go after Bill O’Reilly. He actually does damage on this issue.

Am I allowed to focus on more than one thing at a time?

And by the way, I’ve gone after Bill O’Reilly on this topic, and others, many times.

292 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:59:06pm

umm. did someone see what just flew off the shuttle? It looked smallish and square.

293 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 1:59:49pm

The Islamist who threatened SP creators got 25 years. Good.

294 garhighway  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:00:01pm

re: #88 EmmmieG

A while back someone posted this at a forum:

[Link: www.beliefnet.com…]

It’s a quiz that helps you to figure out which religion your beliefs are in line with.

Just be warned, as they say, they assume no legal responsibility for the fate of your soul.

Also, I can’t see a way to come up “Cthulu.”

Cool.

It appears that I am a secular humanist.

295 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:00:30pm

They are press to ATO.

Well, that’s a relief.

Anybody know what that means?

296 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:01:24pm

External tank jettisoned.re: #292 RadicalModerate

umm. did someone see what just flew off the shuttle? It looked smallish and square.

Yes I did. Doesn’t look like it struck the Shuttle.

297 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:01:31pm

9,800 MPH. Yeah, that will get you a speeding ticket.

298 Opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:02:10pm

re: #247 Simply Sarah

Roe v. Wade is all they’ve got.

Each state has its own law. Abortion was illegal for a long time, and somehow we did it. I lived in a small town while growing up, and everybody, everybody knew that two registered nurses ran our local “back alley.” Their fallback was a physician in family practice who prescribed prophylactic antibiotics (ostensibly for ear infections) and would open his office 24/7 if there was a bleeding problem. Also, though small, our local ER was a backup that would help women who had heavy bleeding problems. It wasn’t perfect, but it worked. As is right now, some really despicable politicians are running amok in DC doing all sorts of things that hurt the lower and middle classes to the benefit of the wealthy. They get away with it, because those same lower and middle class people vote for Republicans due to their stance on the “social issue” of abortion.

299 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:02:15pm

re: #295 EmmmieG

They are press to ATO.

Well, that’s a relief.

Anybody know what that means?

Abort to Orbit (ATO)

An Abort to Orbit (ATO) is available when the intended orbit cannot be reached but a lower stable orbit is possible. This occurred on mission STS-51-F, which continued despite the abort to a lower orbit. The Mission Control Center in Houston (located at Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center) observed an SSME failure and called “Challenger—Houston, Abort ATO. Abort ATO”.

The moment at which an ATO becomes possible is referred to as the “press to ATO” moment. In an ATO situation, the spacecraft commander rotates the cockpit abort mode switch to the ATO position and depresses the abort push button. This initiates the flight control software routines which handle the abort. In the event of lost communications, the spacecraft commander can make the abort decision and take action independently.

A hydrogen fuel leak in one of the SSMEs on STS-93 resulted in a slightly lower orbit than anticipated, but was not an ATO; if the leak had been more severe, it might have necessitated an ATO, RTLS, or TAL abort.

300 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:02:28pm

re: #297 commadore183

9,800 MPH. Yeah, that will get you a speeding ticket.

Ford now makes a cop car that will catch that?

301 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:02:54pm

Is Gabby’s husband on this shuttle flight?

302 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:03:08pm

re: #299 Gus 802

Abort to Orbit (ATO)

Wow. Now I do.

303 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:03:13pm

re: #291 Charles

Am I allowed to focus on more than one thing at a time?

And by the way, I’ve gone after Bill O’Reilly on this topic, and others, many times.

Sure - they’re not mutually exclusive, and I know you’ve gone after O’Reilly.

304 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:03:26pm

RE 296. Well that’s what you get for pre-typing a comment before the actual event happens. Oh’well stuff happens.

305 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:04:05pm

re: #301 recusancy

Is Gabby’s husband on this shuttle flight?

Training for one in late Spring.

306 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:05:36pm

Once the main engines ignited, I cranked the volume as high as I could to hear those engines roar. Loved it.

307 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:06:08pm

re: #88 EmmmieG

A while back someone posted this at a forum:

[Link: www.beliefnet.com…]

It’s a quiz that helps you to figure out which religion your beliefs are in line with.

Just be warned, as they say, they assume no legal responsibility for the fate of your soul.

Also, I can’t see a way to come up “Cthulu.”

Maybe answer the first questions by referring to gods slumbering in the deeps of the oceans, the one who is to come from the stars, and finally finish the quiz by banging your face on the keyboard randomly?

308 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:06:26pm

re: #298 Opal

The real issue is abortion, not Roe. Roe may have been the catalyst for what has become the anti-abortion movement, but it’s not the goal line for them.

309 Kragar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:07:13pm

Egypt military won’t allow “counter-revolution”

Egypt’s new military rulers assured the nation on Thursday they would guard against what protesters have called a counter-revolution by associates of Hosni Mubarak, deposed nearly two weeks ago in an 18-day uprising.

The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces said it noted the use of political expressions such as “the counter revolution” and denounced what it said were “attempts to create strife”, saying it was taking all steps to meet the people’s demands.

Protesters have said they fear a “counter revolution” whereby associates of Mubarak seek to creep back to power, perhaps by rebranding the president’s now crippled ruling party. They are also concerned by Mubarak-appointed ministers staying in their roles.

“There will be no return to the past. The sublime goal now is achieving the hopes and aspirations of the people,” the council said in a statement on its Facebook page.

310 Opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:08:16pm

re: #252 webevintage

Yes, coat hanger abortions are bad. Paid abortions in the back alley are a bit better depending upon who does them. Nurses and physicians had been performing back alley abortions for a long, long time before Roe v. Wade. If Roe is overturned, each state will make its own laws one way or another. In some cases that will mean abortion will be prohibited. In others, it will mean little or no change to today’s laws.

I think letting Roe be overturned will be a worthy tradeoff to get better governance.

311 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:08:47pm

Houston, we have a problem.

I think I left my iron on. Could someone go by my house and turn it off?

312 garhighway  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:08:48pm

re: #308 Simply Sarah

The real issue is abortion, not Roe. Roe may have been the catalyst for what has become the anti-abortion movement, but it’s not the goal line for them.

For the politicos that work the social conservatives, Roe is like heroin. If SCOTUS were to reverse Roe and the issue were to revert to the states, Karl Rove would hold a wake.

313 bratwurst  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:08:50pm

Beck is dragging Reverend Wright into the Libya story and implying that Obama doesn’t support Israel. I made it 8 minutes, but now I have to turn it off.

314 Opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:09:57pm

re: #308 Simply Sarah

It means that people vote against their own (and our lower and middle classes’) best economic interests on that one issue - Roe v. Wade. Is it worth it to our country?

315 Spocomptonite  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:10:02pm

re: #257 Obdicut

I was in Italy with my mom a long time ago, having pizza. I know pizza wasn’t really a big thing in Italy originally, but they certainly adopted it with a zest once every American tourist wanted to have it.

Anyway, we were at one place where the crust was just perfect, just a bit of chew, very crisp, absolutely perfect.

My mom asked how hot the oven was.

The waiter said it was four hundred fifty degrees.

We thought “Well, that’s not that high— oh right, Celsius.”

832 degrees fahrenheit.

I worked for a few months at a gas station that had a gourmet pizzeria in it, complete with a huge, gas-powered brick oven. They kept their oven at around 700-750 degrees. That’s good crust.

316 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:11:30pm

re: #314 Opal

It means that people vote against their own (and our lower and middle classes’) best economic interests on that one issue - Roe v. Wade. Is it worth it to our country?

Again, Roe being overturned would not kill abortion as a political wedge issue. If anything, it would just increase its power.

317 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:11:35pm

re: #315 Spocomptonite

I worked for a few months at a gas station that had a gourmet pizzeria in it, complete with a huge, gas-powered brick oven. They kept their oven at around 700-750 degrees. That’s good crust.

I still think you could get a real crispy crust if you just put a few pies around the engines just before you launched a shuttle.

318 bratwurst  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:11:37pm

D’oh! Failed to turn Beck off before he could mention Van Jones and Francis Fox Piven. Now I am getting up for real.

319 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:11:39pm

re: #288 Talking Point Detective

I’m not suggesting tolerance of bigotry. I’m struggling with how to react in a way that is reflective of my disgust but that also works within a larger frame. In other words, it was a disgusting joke but I don’t think that it lends much credence to the assumption that he supports bombing abortion clinics. When you make that insinuation, IMO, your criticism loses credibility.

Obsessing over what we find offensive is a losing proposition. Pathologies like obsession only escalate and that renders the individual less able to deal competently with reality.

What is effective is to transfer that anger into elevated behavior. Find an outlet to express not so much what bothers you (source of obsession) but rather express your higher ideals.

On a personal note, I used to be very defensive when it came to criticism of the right. After time here I find my core beliefs have been strengthened because I can reject what I know is BS. I will condemn the crazy and defend what I know to be truth. I cvan tell from personal experience the amount of hate mail I get from some elements of the right would stun you, all because I had the temerity to defend CJ. I still get that mail!

I don’t need to hate anyone, persecute anyone or marginalize anyone. I can agree with them, disagree with them or find common ground.

Not everyone is as aware as you are or understand where you come from. That is worth remembering. Further, just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are of lesser or no value.

This isn’t a zero sum game.

I have had occasion to change some opinions, and fortify others. The real strength comes from change and nuance.

My two cents.

320 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:11:39pm

re: #298 Opal

Roe v. Wade is all they’ve got.

Each state has its own law. Abortion was illegal for a long time, and somehow we did it. I lived in a small town while growing up, and everybody, everybody knew that two registered nurses ran our local “back alley.” Their fallback was a physician in family practice who prescribed prophylactic antibiotics (ostensibly for ear infections) and would open his office 24/7 if there was a bleeding problem. Also, though small, our local ER was a backup that would help women who had heavy bleeding problems. It wasn’t perfect, but it worked. As is right now, some really despicable politicians are running amok in DC doing all sorts of things that hurt the lower and middle classes to the benefit of the wealthy. They get away with it, because those same lower and middle class people vote for Republicans due to their stance on the “social issue” of abortion.

They don’t just vote because of abortion now. That may have been the original issue that attracted them, but the concept of ‘values’ has become part of the larger cult. ‘Values’ voters now have just one value - opposing liberals.

If abortion were illegal tomorrow, the Conservative cult would lose no voters. Political activism on the American Right is not about getting your policies enacted - it’s about sticking it to ‘lefties’. Most cult voters have no idea what policies they’re voting for in reality. They only know that the people they’re voting for make the right noises and hate liberals. Any policy they enact is therefore, by default, right.

321 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:12:16pm

re: #310 Opal

I think letting Roe be overturned will be a worthy tradeoff to get better governance.

if that’s the case, what are your views on Loving v Virginia and Griswold v Connecticut?

322 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:13:05pm

re: #313 bratwurst

Beck is dragging Reverend Wright into the Libya story and implying that Obama doesn’t support Israel. I made it 8 minutes, but now I have to turn it off.

The USA just vetoed the UN settlement resolution on Israel but that still didn’t satisfy some people. They’re committed to imaging the worst case scenario which hasn’t happened and probably never will. The fact remains that ALL previous administration have had qualms with the settlements and the Obama White House is really not much different than the previous administrations.

323 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:13:17pm

re: #321 bloodstar

if that’s the case, what are your views on Loving v Virginia and Griswold v Connecticut?

I’m pretty sure Griswold and its ilk would be next on the list once Roe went.

324 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:14:43pm

re: #319 researchok

Nice post.

325 Spocomptonite  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:14:51pm

re: #317 EmmmieG

I still think you could get a real crispy crust if you just put a few thousandpies around the engines just before you launched a shuttle.

This should be the send-off for the last shuttle mission: Space pizza party for the masses!

326 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:15:51pm

re: #324 Talking Point Detective

Nice post.

TY.

327 darthstar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:16:25pm

See? Jesus does answer prayers:

Pinging [Link: www.westborobaptistchurch.com…] [70.184.229.106] with 32 b
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.


Anonymous works in wondrous ways sometimes.

328 Gus  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:19:18pm

re: #327 darthstar

See? Jesus does answer prayers:

Anonymous works in wondrous ways sometimes.

Clearly the handiwork of Barret Brown, super genius.

//

329 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:19:42pm

re: #314 Opal

It means that people vote against their own (and our lower and middle classes’) best economic interests on that one issue - Roe v. Wade. Is it worth it to our country?

Why do you say that ‘lower and middle classes” vote based on Roe v Wade? What do upper classes base their votes on?

330 Opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:20:10pm

re: #320 Renaissance_Man

You may have a point about the cult-like nature of the conservatives. At least, however, moderates might be able to get through to them if the issue of abortion is taken out of the mix. What “values” do they have (beyond abortion) that would justify them and their fellow citizens seeing the country’s wealth concentrated in the hands of the very few and the dissolution of the social safety net? Not all would be persuaded that plutocracy is bad, but some would be.

331 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:20:38pm

Been thinking about whether the U.S. should intervene more in the situation in Libya. Listened to the radio pretty much all afternoon and heard Libyans expressing views on both sides.

I’d be interested in hearing what folks here think, if anyone’s interested.

332 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:21:00pm

re: #330 Opal

You may have a point about the cult-like nature of the conservatives. At least, however, moderates might be able to get through to them if the issue of abortion is taken out of the mix. What “values” do they have (beyond abortion) that would justify them and their fellow citizens seeing the country’s wealth concentrated in the hands of the very few and the dissolution of the social safety net? Not all would be persuaded that plutocracy is bad, but some would be.

Teh ghey.

333 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:21:07pm

re: #329 wrenchwench

Why do you say that ‘lower and middle classes” vote based on Roe v Wade? What do upper classes base their votes on?

Please.

You don’t the cannon.
//

334 darthstar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:21:17pm

re: #328 Gus 802

Clearly the handiwork of Barret Brown, super genius.

//

Anonymous posted a warning on WBBC’s downloads page this morningm but listed all of Westboro’s server IPs and vulnerable port numbers when they did so…my guess is some other people caught wind of that and started having fun…safe to say their system’s fucked for a bit.

335 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:21:55pm

re: #320 Renaissance_Man

They don’t just vote because of abortion now. That may have been the original issue that attracted them, but the concept of ‘values’ has become part of the larger cult. ‘Values’ voters now have just one value - opposing liberals.

If abortion were illegal tomorrow, the Conservative cult would lose no voters. Political activism on the American Right is not about getting your policies enacted - it’s about sticking it to ‘lefties’. Most cult voters have no idea what policies they’re voting for in reality. They only know that the people they’re voting for make the right noises and hate liberals. Any policy they enact is therefore, by default, right.

Agreed. I think that far and above the issues, the demonization of libz is what drives a lot of the right.

336 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:22:26pm

re: #334 darthstar

Anonymous posted a warning on WBBC’s downloads page this morningm but listed all of Westboro’s server IPs and vulnerable port numbers when they did so…my guess is some other people caught wind of that and started having fun…safe to say their system’s fucked for a bit.

I don’t see why everybody’s vehemently against anonymous.

337 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:22:34pm

re: #331 Talking Point Detective

Been thinking about whether the U.S. should intervene more in the situation in Libya. Listened to the radio pretty much all afternoon and heard Libyans expressing views on both sides.

I’d be interested in hearing what folks here think, if anyone’s interested.

Until we get our citizens (and others) out of harms way, I vote for low key.

Qaddafi is a lunatic- he will hold hostage or harm foreigners.

338 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:22:50pm

re: #332 Sergey Romanov

Teh ghey.

And that too. But is there really any difference between libz and teh gay? Aren’t all libz gays?

339 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:22:54pm

The anti-abortion argument as being pushed forward by the social right nowadays is about controlling the rights and bodies of women. Specifically, the recent attempt to re-define what rape is, not to mention what constitutes as an abortion. Almost every post-rape pregnancy termination is done via emergency “Plan B” contraception, and if that fails, RU-486. Surgical post-rape abortions are almost non-existent. The Republicans current legislative maneuvers are attempting to remove access to the first two non-surgical options.

340 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:23:05pm

re: #333 researchok

You don’t need the cannon.
//

341 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:23:50pm

re: #338 Talking Point Detective

And that too. But is there really any difference between libz and teh gay? Aren’t all libz gays?

That’s the “point of crystallization” instead of abortion. “Liberals” is not focused enough.

342 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:24:32pm

re: #337 researchok

Until we get our citizens (and others) out of harms way, I vote for low key.

Qaddafi is a lunatic- he will hold hostage or harm foreigners.

But what about after? As I understand, we don’t even have forces in the region. Could/should we enforce a no fly zone? I wonder if the reluctance to take a strong stance so far might be because the U.S. government isn’t yet convinced that he’s going down.

343 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:24:37pm

re: #336 recusancy

I don’t see why everybody’s vehemently against anonymous.

I don’t see why you think everybody is vehemently against anonymous :P

344 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:25:05pm

re: #343 Sergey Romanov

I don’t see why you think everybody is vehemently against anonymous :P

touche :)

345 darthstar  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:25:09pm

re: #336 recusancy

I don’t see why everybody’s vehemently against anonymous.

Hackers aren’t a positive contribution to society, generally speaking…but in this case they’re making a tiny slice of life difficult for a group of hateful bigots, so I’m celebrating.

346 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:25:56pm

re: #317 EmmmieG

I still think you could get a real crispy crust if you just put a few pies around the engines just before you launched a shuttle.

BBQ:

Youtube Video
347 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:26:05pm

re: #342 Talking Point Detective

But what about after? As I understand, we don’t even have forces in the region. Could/should we enforce a no fly zone? I wonder if the reluctance to take a strong stance so far might be because the U.S. government isn’t yet convinced that he’s going down.

After? Depends.

If he is still there, we go after him.

If there are arms trained in innocents, we go after them.

Rescue is a moral imperative, in my opinion.

348 Simply Sarah  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:26:07pm

re: #330 Opal

You may have a point about the cult-like nature of the conservatives. At least, however, moderates might be able to get through to them if the issue of abortion is taken out of the mix. What “values” do they have (beyond abortion) that would justify them and their fellow citizens seeing the country’s wealth concentrated in the hands of the very few and the dissolution of the social safety net? Not all would be persuaded that plutocracy is bad, but some would be.

And I realize now that I’ve let myself get focused too much on the why reversing Roe wouldn’t help, rather than the why the whole idea of wanting it reversed to “remove it as an issue” is madness. So, just because some segment of the population will vote against its real interests over an issue, we should just concede that issue to them? Do you have any idea what it is that you’re implying?

Well, a lot of people still have trouble with blacks, so Brown should go, too. If states want Jim Crow, let them. LGBTQalphabetsoup people? Well, they can work to change the minds of people. Women? Disabled? Poor? Other minorities? Tough for all of them, they make people vote against their “real interests”.

Please, this isn’t how we want this country to work. Or, at least, it’s not how I want it to work.

349 Talking Point Detective  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:26:55pm

re: #341 Sergey Romanov

That’s the “point of crystallization” instead of abortion. “Liberals” is not focused enough.

Haven’t heard the term before. I like it. Kind of like how Obama is a Communist/socialist/Hitler lover/racist/illegal alien/terrorist sympathizer/witch-doctor/lyin’ African/Ivy League elitist. Lump everything odious together, “crystallize” it, and call it a lib.

350 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:27:48pm

re: #344 recusancy

The Anon is chaotic neutral. They will bring good and they will bring bad. Hating on them too much is a bit like yelling at clouds while being Grandpa Simpson.

351 Opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:28:05pm

re: #329 wrenchwench

Many in the upper classes vote for whatever is good for the corporations and makes Wall Street hum. Not all, just many. They vote their pocketbooks (capital gains). When I speak of lower and middle classes, I am looking at those charts that show that over 70 percent of the US working households have an income of less than $75K.

352 recusancy  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:28:39pm

re: #345 darthstar

Hackers aren’t a positive contribution to society, generally speaking…but in this case they’re making a tiny slice of life difficult for a group of hateful bigots, so I’m celebrating.

True but I think a few anarchists are good to have. Keeps you on your toes and strengthens us. Not everybody positively contributes to society. If they fuck with a few zealots and banks along the way so be it. If they crack into our government we better learn from it.

353 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:29:14pm

re: #349 Talking Point Detective

Haven’t heard the term before. I like it. Kind of like how Obama is a Communist/socialist/Hitler lover/racist/illegal alien/terrorist sympathizer/witch-doctor/lyin’ African/Ivy League elitist. Lump everything odious together, “crystallize” it, and call it a lib.

Please capitalize “Lib”. We’re sensitive.

354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:32:49pm

re: #352 recusancy

True but I think a few anarchists are good to have. Keeps you on your toes and strengthens us. Not everybody positively contributes to society. If they fuck with a few zealots and banks along the way so be it. If they crack into our government we better learn from it.

They write punk music! They contribute! :D

355 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:34:23pm

re: #314 Opal

It means that people vote against their own (and our lower and middle classes’) best economic interests on that one issue - Roe v. Wade. Is it worth it to our country?

Huh?

356 Opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:35:03pm

re: #348 Simply Sarah

You could extrapolate it that way. Or, you could remember that at the federal level, that is THE social issue that keeps many people voting against their own economic best interests. Abortions will still be legal in some states. Women crossing state lines to obtain them is another issue.

357 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:35:29pm

re: #349 Talking Point Detective

I made it up. I was actually thinking about how impurities will be the centers of nucleation in some cases - be it crystallization or boiling. So these wedge issues are like these impurities/nucleation centers.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

358 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:36:23pm

re: #250 Charles

I could not disagree more. These kinds of “jokes” are the soil in which violent extremism grows. When GOP politicians do this kind of thing, they’re signaling to the radicals that they’re going to look the other way.

Sure, Hogan himself probably doesn’t support bombing clinics, but he’s giving a nod and a wink to those who do. He is FAR from the only politician who does this; it’s very common on the right wing.

And the right wing base is getting the message, in spades: Bad Craziness Watch: Right Wing Reaction to the Tiller Murder.

If it truly read like an off-color joke, hey who cares?

But that isn’t a joke, it’s a distinct message, it’s a dog-whistle, it’s a wink-wink nudge-nudge we’re on the same mad-bomber psycho side! The message is, we here in this church approve and endorse terrorist acts.

359 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:36:44pm

re: #356 Opal

You could extrapolate it that way. Or, you could remember that at the federal level, that is THE social issue that keeps many people voting against their own economic best interests. Abortions will still be legal in some states. Women crossing state lines to obtain them is another issue.

You’re making an incorrect assumption

360 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:37:19pm

re: #330 Opal

You may have a point about the cult-like nature of the conservatives. At least, however, moderates might be able to get through to them if the issue of abortion is taken out of the mix. What “values” do they have (beyond abortion) that would justify them and their fellow citizens seeing the country’s wealth concentrated in the hands of the very few and the dissolution of the social safety net? Not all would be persuaded that plutocracy is bad, but some would be.

The only value that matters - the fact that liberals are against those things.

Look at any of the ‘Family’ type organisations. Look at WorldNetDaily. All of these places have religious types opining loudly about ‘robust, muscular Christianity’, and how it is holy and good to oppose social justice. You aren’t going to convince these people plutocracy is bad. It’s not about the issue of plutocracy, the issue of abortion, the issue of social justice, or any issue at all. It’s identity politics - our kind is religious and decent, and their kind is not. We must listen to our kind. We must stand with our kind, our team. That’s all it is.

There are basically only three main kinds of Republican voters these days, and when I say ‘these days’, I mean since the Republican party stopped being the once-great party of Lincoln and started being the political representation of the Conservative cult media. The first are those who understand the odious nature of the issues that the modern Republican party stands for, and while they don’t believe in them themselves, they can’t bring themselves to vote Democrat out of old prejudices, and so convince themselves that voting R will only support the ‘sane’ Republicans. The second are those who don’t really know what the issues are, and don’t care to educate themselves, and just vote R because they support their team. And the last are the cultists, who vote R because they hate liberals.

Of these groups, only the first actually cares about the issues. And they already know that the issues are odious. They may be reached, but not by giving in on the issues that they don’t really support. The other two groups do not care about the issues. They don’t even know what to think about any given issue until someone on their side gives them an opinion. You see it all the time - an issue happens, and there’s some knee-jerk hatred of liberals or support of a right-wing canard. Then there’s a pause, until someone who they think of as educated lays out some bullshit reasons why they can oppose liberals/support their side, and then they can reliably trot out that ‘reasoning’, because someone on their team said it. You can’t reach these people through convincing them. You can only let them decide to change their mind themselves, or deprogram them.

361 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:40:06pm

re: #356 Opal

Ad your incorrect assumption is that socially conservative people with little education cannot be made to vote against their own interests unless abortion is legal.

Totally wrong, dude! They’re dumb people, they can be made to vote against their interests by scaring them about queers (which they did) by scaring them about health care (which they did) by scaring them about the evil black muslim president (ditto) by scaring them about rock music (rightyo), satanism, immigrants, public school indoctrination and so on and so forth.

They’re dumbasses. They’re easy to lead.

So this notion that abortion has caused these people to vote against their own interests is comedy. They don’t magically become critical thinkers if abortion is illegal. They’ll just pick another demon to hiss about, they’ll find a different scapegoat to try and hang in the town square

362 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:40:39pm

re: #361 WindUpBird

I never miss an opportunity to bring up satanism

363 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:42:46pm

re: #362 WindUpBird

I never miss an opportunity to bring up satanism

You need more yogurt in your life.

Lots more.
//

364 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:45:36pm

re: #360 Renaissance_Man

The only value that matters - the fact that liberals are against those things.

Look at any of the ‘Family’ type organisations. Look at WorldNetDaily. All of these places have religious types opining loudly about ‘robust, muscular Christianity’, and how it is holy and good to oppose social justice. You aren’t going to convince these people plutocracy is bad. It’s not about the issue of plutocracy, the issue of abortion, the issue of social justice, or any issue at all. It’s identity politics - our kind is religious and decent, and their kind is not. We must listen to our kind. We must stand with our kind, our team. That’s all it is.

There are basically only three main kinds of Republican voters these days, and when I say ‘these days’, I mean since the Republican party stopped being the once-great party of Lincoln and started being the political representation of the Conservative cult media. The first are those who understand the odious nature of the issues that the modern Republican party stands for, and while they don’t believe in them themselves, they can’t bring themselves to vote Democrat out of old prejudices, and so convince themselves that voting R will only support the ‘sane’ Republicans. The second are those who don’t really know what the issues are, and don’t care to educate themselves, and just vote R because they support their team. And the last are the cultists, who vote R because they hate liberals.

Of these groups, only the first actually cares about the issues. And they already know that the issues are odious. They may be reached, but not by giving in on the issues that they don’t really support. The other two groups do not care about the issues. They don’t even know what to think about any given issue until someone on their side gives them an opinion. You see it all the time - an issue happens, and there’s some knee-jerk hatred of liberals or support of a right-wing canard. Then there’s a pause, until someone who they think of as educated lays out some bullshit reasons why they can oppose liberals/support their side, and then they can reliably trot out that ‘reasoning’, because someone on their team said it. You can’t reach these people through convincing them. You can only let them decide to change their mind themselves, or deprogram them.


Lots of truth here.

What the GOP really lacks is a leader.

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:48:19pm

re: #363 researchok

You need more yogurt in your life.

Lots more.
//

Does the frozen stuff count?

366 researchok  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:50:02pm

re: #365 WindUpBird

Does the frozen stuff count?

That’ll work.

367 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:52:53pm

re: #310 Opal

Yes, coat hanger abortions are bad. Paid abortions in the back alley are a bit better depending upon who does them. Nurses and physicians had been performing back alley abortions for a long, long time before Roe v. Wade. If Roe is overturned, each state will make its own laws one way or another. In some cases that will mean abortion will be prohibited. In others, it will mean little or no change to today’s laws.

I think letting Roe be overturned will be a worthy tradeoff to get better governance.

You are willing to trade off women’s lives for an easier political future on other issues. Do I have that right? Because you know the death rate will go up. That’s why you said, “it wasn’t perfect” in #298.

368 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 2:54:25pm

re: #367 wrenchwench

You are willing to trade off women’s lives for an easier political future on other issues. Do I have that right? Because you know the death rate will go up. That’s why you said, “it wasn’t perfect” in #298.

and the power of women will go down, more women will be trapped in abhorrent situations with their pregnancy or their child uses as leverage against them

369 dragonfire1981  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 3:34:10pm

Whatcha gonna do pregnant mothers?? Whatcha gonna do when Mike Hogan runs wild on you??

370 opal  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 4:30:38pm

re: #367 wrenchwench

I don’t think it is an either-or situation. I think that the aggregate “bad” that comes from the conservative Republican movement at the federal level far outstrips the “bad” that could occur in some states that will choose to completely ban abortion and criminalize the crossing of state lines in order to obtain an abortion.

371 jea62  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 4:36:56pm

So, if the Catholic Church threatens to deny Holy Communion to politicians who support abortion, would they deny it to someone who blows up an abortion clinic?

Catholic Bingo BONUS: Here in Philly, 3 priests were just indicted by a grand jury for child molestation. Evidently Cardinal Bevilaqua was well acquainted with one of the going back a few decades. The grand jury would have indicted him as well but there wasn’t enough evidence to bring one.

Just in case you were all wondering exactly how moral the leadership of the church is…

372 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 4:47:15pm

re: #370 opal

I don’t think it is an either-or situation. I think that the aggregate “bad” that comes from the conservative Republican movement at the federal level far outstrips the “bad” that could occur in some states that will choose to completely ban abortion and criminalize the crossing of state lines in order to obtain an abortion.

I think your position is very poorly thought out.

You are still advocating a big step back and claiming it will result in a step forward. I think you treat the subject in a cavalier manner.

373 ThomasLite  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 6:13:44pm

re: #371 jea62

So, if the Catholic Church threatens to deny Holy Communion to politicians who support abortion, would they deny it to someone who blows up an abortion clinic?

depends. if the bomber were to show remorse for his actions, then yes.
the idea is that to receive the Holy Communion one has to be in a state of grace (translation? not sure here), which means that one has to have said confession and have had remorse for ones’ sins.
now a clinic bomber who feels remorse and resolves to not do it again (which the state will do for him anyway, but the state of mind matters in a religious matter, of course) and is in a state of grace should (and I think can) not be refused communion.
an abortion doctor who does not feel remorse for his actions and fully plans to continue on doing abortions is, obviously, if one considers abortion a mortal sin -which the church does-, not in that state of grace, and so, according to doctrine, should (must) be refused Communion.

not stating any personal opinions here; just general Catholic doctrine.
the reasoning for refusing abortion doctors the Holy Communion is valid as long as you accept the churches right to condemn abortions.
if an abortion doctor finds that unacceptable he is free to find another religion; if you find it abhorrent you’re free to, well, still not be a catholic, but the church is not being hypocritical or inconsistent in this.
how agreeable their doctrine is is another matter, but that’s religion for you.

374 Querent  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 6:55:58pm

Moral Derpitude.

So glad i built that Stupidioscope to handle as great a theoretical amount of stupidity as possible…

375 samgak  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 7:17:02pm

I don’t see anything wrong with the joke. He clearly doesn’t mean to imply that it is acceptable to bomb abortion clinics. It’s a little ridiculous that terrorism is supposed to be completely off-limits for humour (not that the joke is very funny). People used to crack jokes about suicide bombers all the time a few years ago. Are you seriously offended by his comments or is it just convenient to pretend to be? That kind of feigned outrage is pretty common in what passes for political discourse these days unfortunately. It’s a little like getting upset about Fawlty Towers’ “don’t mention the war” jokes, and claiming that they belittle the victims of Nazism. Yeah sure it does.

376 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 7:31:35pm

If I were running against him I’d be including “My opponent supports terrorism” to my platform. I wouldn’t be lying either.

377 samgak  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 7:51:12pm

re: #376 Romantic Heretic

Yes, you would be lying. You can’t infer from his comments that he supports terrorism.

Seriously I don’t even agree with him on the abortion issue but that kind of deliberate partisan misunderstanding of people’s comments gets under my skin, as does this notion that being “offended” confers the moral high ground.

378 Flavia  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 9:50:18pm

re: #4 Alouette

Remember all the outrageous outrage when some left-wing “comedian” (Sarah Silverman?) made a “joke” about Sarah Palin getting gang-raped by a bunch of black men?

Not Sarah Silverman - Sandra Bernhardt. Then again, would it have made a difference?

And yet the Right will insist that they never incite violence, & the call for polite discourse is weakness.

379 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Feb 24, 2011 9:55:01pm

I think he probably does support the bombing of abortion clinics and his comments reflect that - he’s just being “pc” by insisting he was joking.

What’s bothersome is the fact that a [presumably] Catholic audience cheered him on. Hypocrisy, anyone?

380 JEA62  Fri, Feb 25, 2011 8:56:33am

The rabid anti-abortion crowd “condemns” violence in public while secretly celebrating it.

They’re like the Mafia.


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