Shock! Kathryn Lopez Wants to ‘Turn Back the Clock’

The right wing war against women’s rights
Wingnuts • Views: 47,202

If you’re one of the billions of women whose lives have been brightened, improved, or even saved by the availability of modern contraception techniques, you may be under the impression that having choices is a good thing.

But here’s the National Review’s Kathryn Lopez, letting you know that the world was much better when women knew their place — barefoot, pregnant, and subservient to men: Contraception is Not the Solution.

Lopez wants you to realize that you’re really not happy and you’re really not free, despite how you may feel. Lopez wants you to admit that in truth you’re miserable, living in pain and desperation, subconsciously longing to be married and pregnant. Give up those false notions of freedom and choice, turn back the clock, and you’ll find “true happiness.”

And of course, Lopez is willing to parrot outright lies about Planned Parenthood to try to trick you into putting the chains back on.

We’ve come to expect less for and from ourselves, and for and from one another. In part, it’s the fruit of the contraceptive pill. New York magazine recently observed in a cover feature: “The pill is so ingrained in our culture today that girls go on it in college, even high school, and stay on it for five, 10, 15, even 20 years.” That, of course, has had all kinds of fallout: a false sense of freedom, security. And it has ravaged women’s fertility, as it seeks to mute exactly what women’s reproductive power is all about.

That’s why I want to turn back the clock — to a time when we valued love and marriage and didn’t expect, support and even encourage promiscuity. Life and history don’t work that way, obviously, there is no actual rewind. But we do have opportunities to learn from our mistakes.

The spending fight over Planned Parenthood in Congress is about a number of things. It’s primarily about good stewardship, as so much of the spending debate is. But beyond legislation, beyond anything Congress can or should do, it is a call to arms for a new sexual revolution. It’s about wanting more for ourselves and for those whom we love. It’s about ending the surrender to a contraceptive mentality that treats human sexuality as just another commercial transaction. …

That commercial does not, needless to say, do justice to the pain and desperation many women suffer when they find themselves thinking about an abortion, or popping pills in pursuit of something that masks itself as satisfaction but is really just a bad substitute, oftentimes making true happiness all the more illusory.

As evidence of the reckless and dangerous callousness at institutions supposedly dedicated to women’s health — failure to report the sex trafficking of minors, failure to report child abuse [A blatant lie; PP reported both of these incidents, and they were faked, anyway! – ed.] — continues to emerge, we can’t afford to lose sight of another, more fundamental conversation that we’ve got to have, among friends, in our homes and churches — a talk about what it means to be human.

Also see this excellent New York Times editorial, on the Republican Party’s appalling all-out War on Women.

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297 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:47:24am

There is a twisted logic behind this that the very existence and availablilty of contraception forces otherwise "moral" people to become promiscuous and irresponsible in their sex lives, leading to the erroneous conclusion that banning contraception will somehow force them to become chaste and responsible again.

2 albusteve  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:47:28am

no prisoners...submit or else

3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:47:47am

I loves me some birth control. My two planned children agree.

4 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:48:19am

That is simply Taliban thinking. Let's hear it for the 13th century!
//

5 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:48:31am

Not only a war on women but a war against Western civilization. Now, who did we last accuse of waging a war against Western civilization during height of the GWOT?

6 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:50:21am

Wombs are a natural resource which a nation is required to protect and defend.

And to exploit. Drill, baby, drill!!!

/

7 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:53:59am

Man, she really loves small government except when it gets in the way of her shoving her morals to the rest of us. Listen, if you want to use contraception when you have sex, that is your decision and right and if you don't, that also is. I have nothing against couples who choose to have large families but at the same time, I realize that not everyone wants a large family.

8 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:54:00am

Onion point/counterpoint:
U.S. Out Of My Uterus vs

We Must Deploy Troops To Jessica Linden's Uterus Immediately

To protect America's interests, it is sometimes necessary to mobilize and deploy a military force. We now stand on the brink of such a time.

The tactical importance of Jessica Linden's uterus to national security is twofold: First, with its rich, fertile walls, this uterus is a vital source of future Americans. Second, the uterus is situated in an extremely strategic location, leaving it vulnerable to a hostile foreign power. This uterus must be given top priority by the Pentagon. Establishing a strong U.S. military presence in Jessica Linden's uterine region is by far the most sensible course of action.

9 Obdicut  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:54:47am

She couches everything in such passive aggressive language it's difficult to see what she actually means.

The pill has "ravaged women’s fertility"? How? Women aren't less fertile after being on the pill. That's a lie often put about by opponents of contraception. The only thing the pill does is allow women to control their fertility. Apparently, this is really offensive to some people, that women could have sex without the risk of pregnancy. God knows why.

as it seeks to mute exactly what women’s reproductive power is all about.

The pill seeks? The pill seeks nothing. The pill is simply a pharmaceutical agent. What she really means is that those who promote continent sexuality, the use of birth control, are trying to 'mute' women's reproductive 'power'.

How it's empowering to become pregnant when you don't want to be, I have no idea.

It’s about ending the surrender to a contraceptive mentality that treats human sexuality as just another commercial transaction.

God, her writing is so bad it's almost hard to pick her argument apart. A mentality that contraceptives okay, she is saying, somehow makes human sexuality into a commercial transaction. I suppose, what she means by that is that two people mutually agree to have sex, just sex, because both of them want to, and neither of them want to have children result from that sex. This, of course, is not a commercial transaction, any more than it is to agree to a kiss, a dance, or anything else we do with each other that brings pleasure and intimacy.

, or popping pills in pursuit of something that masks itself as satisfaction but is really just a bad substitute, oftentimes making true happiness all the more illusory.

And here, of course, she's eliding 'popping pills' of a narcotic kind with taking the contraceptive pill in a responsible attempt to not wind up pregnant when one doesn't want to.

It's such a confused and incoherent argument. It assumes that the women who are reading it are gullible and guilt-filled. I hope nobody gets taken in by it.

10 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:55:23am

The way she talks about Planned Parenthood makes me SICK.

11 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:56:06am

re: #9 Obdicut

AKA pseudo-science.

12 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:57:12am

You know I'd have some respect for people like Lopez if they stopped the charade of claiming to be for smaller government. I'd still despise them for wanting the government to get involved in the most basic of human interactions but at least they'd be honest about what they believe and their intentions. People like Lopez aren't for smaller government at all and the fact that they think they are is an act of mass delusion on their part.

13 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:57:32am

re: #7 HappyWarrior

Man, she really loves small government except when it gets in the way of her shoving her morals to the rest of us. Listen, if you want to use contraception when you have sex, that is your decision and right and if you don't, that also is. I have nothing against couples who choose to have large families but at the same time, I realize that not everyone wants a large family.

People like Lopez can only be truly happy when they're dominating other people's lives.

14 Obdicut  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:57:50am

re: #11 Gus 802

AKA pseudo-science.

Pseudo-science, pseudo-psychology, and pseudo-concern for those poor women who are being dis-empowered by not being fertile every day of their lives. Those poor, poor women who think that sex can be meaningful to them outside marriage.

I wonder what she thinks about masturbation. Do we have another O'Donnell here?

15 blueraven  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:58:14am

Fuck you K Lo! Or maybe that's the problem, nobody wants to.

You dont speak for me or my daughter, who yes, is on the pill with my blessing!

16 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:58:17am

And my dad wants to know why I am not reading National Review. I just tell him I cannot get the articles for free online. The real reason is what I am reading, I do not like and I find it very repressive.

17 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:59:15am

Contraception is not the solution. What the hell is the problem anyway again? According to her? Pill-popping?

18 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:59:24am

re: #14 Obdicut

Pseudo-science, pseudo-psychology, and pseudo-concern for those poor women who are being dis-empowered by not being fertile every day of their lives. Those poor, poor women who think that sex can be meaningful to them outside marriage.

I wonder what she thinks about masturbation. Do we have another O'Donnell here?

Probably pre-Vatican I.

19 sod  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 10:59:39am

Contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies - and abortions. Seems like a good thing to me.

20 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:00:19am

re: #13 Charles

People like Lopez can only be truly happy when they're dominating other people's lives.

See right-wing authoritarianism.

21 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:00:22am

re: #13 Charles

People like Lopez can only be truly happy when they're dominating other people's lives.


For sure. It is darkly amusing though that these are the same people who don't think the government should be involved in improving health care but do think it should be telling men and women that they can't use contraception.

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:01:26am

re: #19 sod

Contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies - and abortions. Seems like a good thing to me.

All pregnancies are wanted - by God, remember? They are part of his Divine Plan. Even rape and incest. His ways are unfathomable to mere mortals, especially female mortals.

Which is why God hates all abortions and commands us to kill abortion doctors.

/

23 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:01:52am

re: #20 Gus 802

See right-wing authoritarianism.

Intro:

Right-wing authoritarianism (RWA) is a personality and ideological variable studied in political, social, and personality psychology. It is defined by three attitudinal and behavioral clusters which correlate together:

1. Authoritarian submission — a high degree of submissiveness to the authorities who are perceived to be established and legitimate in the society in which one lives.

2. Authoritarian aggression — a general aggressiveness directed against deviants, outgroups, and other people that are perceived to be targets according to established authorities.

3. Conventionalism — a high degree of adherence to the traditions and social norms that are perceived to be endorsed by society and its established authorities, and a belief that others in one's society should also be required to adhere to these norms.

24 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:02:00am

re: #21 HappyWarrior

For sure. It is darkly amusing though that these are the same people who don't think the government should be involved in improving health care but do think it should be telling men and women that they can't use contraception.

Not so focussed on the men, are they?

25 Obdicut  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:02:50am

re: #16 PhillyPretzel

It's the more offensive since it's so goddamn badly written. There are certainly cases to be made that women are encouraged to be overly sexual, and sexual too early in their lives. A good, coherent argument could be made that women are being asked to validate their sexuality through male sexuality, etc. It's an old, long-standing feminist argument, actually.

But it has nothing to do with fertility. At all. If a woman doesn't want, at that moment, to have children, it makes sense for her to be on birth control. Even if she's not planning on having sex, we're human beings, and there's a lot of children out there born from moments when two human beings, who hadn't planned on winding up in bed together, did.

So the bizarre mish-mashing of this weird, self-contradictory argument about fertility being a power of women that they're somehow 'ravaging' by controlling it, in with the argument about potential lack of satisfaction in casual sex, makes for a terribly, terribly written article. This is something I'd expect on some random person's blog, not in an actual magazine.

26 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:03:35am

re: #17 iceweasel

Contraception is not the solution. What the hell is the problem anyway again? According to her? Pill-popping?

Coitus interruptus?

27 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:03:50am

re: #24 iceweasel

Not so focussed on the men, are they?

Well I doubt Ms. Lopez is that high on condoms either. But yeah she's mostly giving women a hard time who choose to use the pill. She's a reactionary, pure and simple just like many modern "conservatives."

28 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:04:08am

re: #24 iceweasel

Not so focussed on the men, are they?

Men don't need so much control. Look at Eve: had Adam excercised a bit more control on her, we would still be in Paradise.

/

29 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:04:50am

re: #26 Gus 802

Coitus Interruptus should have been the name of a roman soldier in monty python.

30 rwmofo  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:05:10am

Why do we have to focus only on women? You wimpy guys who aren't planning on having any (more) children and haven't had your vasectomies yet need to stop babbling and get it done. I did 15 years ago.

BTW, I'm pro-choice, so don't waste your time trying to group me in with the pro-lifers.

31 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:05:39am

re: #26 Gus 802

Coitus interruptus?

Probably not even that. According to the more devout (?) intercourse is only for procreation only. There you have it Tea Partiers. No more sport intercourse for you.

32 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:06:57am

re: #30 rwmofo

Why do we have to focus only on women? You wimpy guys who aren't planning on having any (more) children and haven't had your vasectomies yet need to stop babbling and get it done. I did 15 years ago.

BTW, I'm pro-choice, so don't waste your time trying to group me in with the pro-lifers.

RINO!!!
:)

33 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:07:23am

re: #31 Gus 802

Probably not even that. According to the more devout (?) intercourse is only for procreation only. There you have it Tea Partiers. No more sport intercourse for you.

Just when they were about to go pro, too.

34 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:08:38am

re: #31 Gus 802

Probably not even that. According to the more devout (?) intercourse is only for procreation only. There you have it Tea Partiers. No more sport intercourse for you.

No wonder they're so angry all the time.
/

35 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:08:59am

re: #33 iceweasel

Just when they were about to go pro, too.

Wait until the anti-divorce crowd starts showing up. Or the ones that want to create obstacles to divorce. We can be like the old "Catholic countries" where divorce was forbidden.

36 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:09:21am
We've come to expect less for and from ourselves, and for and from one another. In part, it's the fruit of the contraceptive pill. New York magazine recently observed in a cover feature: "The pill is so ingrained in our culture today that girls go on it in college, even high school, and stay on it for five, 10, 15, even 20 years." That, of course, has had all kinds of fallout: a false sense of freedom, security. And it has ravaged women's fertility, as it seeks to mute exactly what women's reproductive power is all about.

First, women go to college, not girls.

Second, she undermines her weak, thin argument by focusing on the pill. Only 28% of women in the US "surrender to a contraceptive mentality " by using the pill.

37 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:09:44am

re: #35 Gus 802

Wait until the anti-divorce crowd starts showing up. Or the ones that want to create obstacles to divorce. We can be like the old "Catholic countries" where divorce was forbidden.

Not even so old. Ireland, right? Some crazy late date.

38 blueraven  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:10:03am

re: #30 rwmofo

Why do we have to focus only on women? You wimpy guys who aren't planning on having any (more) children and haven't had your vasectomies yet need to stop babbling and get it done. I did 15 years ago.

BTW, I'm pro-choice, so don't waste your time trying to group me in with the pro-lifers.

You know, I dont have a problem with pro life people in general. But the rabid movement to take away women's reproductive rights...No, Hell No!

The abortion issue cant be fixed by denying the sexuality of women.

39 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:10:42am

These people don't care about preventing abortions or unwanted children, just like they don't actually care about marriage beyond making sure only people they approve of can enter into one (Which, since they see sex outside of marriage as a terrible evil, plays into the contraception and abortion parts).

It's only about being able to impose their own morals and worldview on others, regardless of what problems that may cause and how counterproductive they may be. Women are the common target because, in their view, we're 'weak' and 'should focus on the role of birthing and raising children'. It's also easy to go after the group with less power and which has, traditionally, had their options limited.

40 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:11:19am

re: #37 iceweasel

Not even so old. Ireland, right? Some crazy late date.

Yep. "Legalized" in Argentina in 1987.

41 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:12:33am

Whenever I read these sexist screeds I always end up thinking, "Somebody really needs to get laid." Because I hear a lot of envy in rants like this.

They're pretty much saying, "If I can't get any, nobody else can either."

42 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:12:33am

re: #40 Gus 802

Yep. "Legalized" in Argentina in 1987.

Showing my age here but I was uh born in 1987. That's amazing.

43 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:14:03am

re: #38 blueraven

You know, I dont have a problem with pro life people in general. But the rabid movement to take away women's reproductive rights...No, Hell No!

The abortion issue cant be fixed by denying the sexuality of women.

They don't want to deny it, they want you defined by it. Fertility, that is. Sexuality without fertility doesnt exist for them. Another part of the anti-gay sentiment as well.

44 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:15:30am

From the "War on Women" editorial:

...Beyond the familiar terrain of abortion or even contraception, House Republicans would inflict harm on low-income women trying to have children or who are already mothers.

Their continuing resolution would cut by 10 percent the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children, better known as WIC, which serves 9.6 million low-income women, new mothers, and infants each month, and has been linked in studies to higher birth weight and lower infant mortality.

The G.O.P. bill also slices $50 million from the block grant supporting programs providing prenatal health care to 2.5 million low-income women and health care to 31 million children annually. President Obama’s budget plan for next year calls for a much more modest cut. ...

War on Women, Children, and Poor People, more like.

45 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:16:04am

re: #41 Romantic Heretic

Whenever I read these sexist screeds I always end up thinking, "Somebody really needs to get laid." Because I hear a lot of envy in rants like this.

They're pretty much saying, "If I can't get any, nobody else can either."

There's always the steampunk vibrator and dildo. Has a Victorian flare to it.

46 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:16:38am

re: #45 Gus 802

There's always the steampunk vibrator and dildo. Has a Victorian flare to it.

That google search must've been fun.
/

47 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:17:32am

re: #46 Varek Raith

That google search must've been fun.
/

Yeah. This was my other option.

48 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:17:38am

Oh, I get it.

Contraception = Promiscuity

Got it.

49 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:17:56am

re: #48 BigPapa

Oh, I get it.

Contraception = Promiscuity

Got it.

Perzactly.

50 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:18:02am
or popping pills in pursuit of something that masks itself as satisfaction but is really just a bad substitute, oftentimes making true happiness all the more illusory.

It's like she can't imagine happiness outside the role of married baby maker so she convinces herself it can't exist for anyone else either. (They may seem happy, but it's all a facade!)

Ah, these poor sinners and the tragic, fake happiness of their ungodly lifestyles...

51 Obdicut  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:18:11am

re: #44 wrenchwench

The hypocrisy there is gigantic. It's a program that reduces infant mortality. It is also, therefore, a program that reduces stillbirths and spontaneous abortions, since the risk factors for infant mortality and low birth rate are pretty much the same.

So they want to outlaw rational abortion, but are fine with an increase in infant mortality and spontaneous abortions.

52 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:18:22am

re: #43 iceweasel
So when is someone going to say why hasn't Lopez followed her own advice. If she really believes what she is "preaching" she should immediately resign from her job, have a few kids and forget about having anything that resembles a career.

53 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:19:25am
54 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:19:47am

WTF is this woman rambling about? American women (and men!) are perfectly free to forgo extramarital sex, contraception, abortion, etc. if they so choose. Hell, you don't need to pine for the first half 20th century, you can turn back the clock all you want to—look at the Amish.

It seems to me the only reason to write an article like that is because you want to mandate everyone else's morality based to your personal/religious beliefs. It's becoming increasingly difficult for me to believe that the GOP has any desire to see America remain a free & open society with a representative democracy.

55 Obdicut  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:20:02am

Oh, and apropos:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Men who abuse women physically and emotionally may also sabotage their partners’ birth control, pressuring them to become pregnant against their will, new reports suggest.

56 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:21:00am

Lopez message is quite simple, when you boil it down:

Women, Know Your Limits!

57 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:24:09am

Prophylactics kill a swimming sperm!

//

58 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:24:21am

re: #53 Gus 802

Phyllis Schlafly is "in the house" again.

I never understood Phyllis Schalafy. Ok, rant against women's rights while you yourself are a woman. And it's worth noting that every Republican president until Reagan supported ERA I believe.

59 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:26:07am

There is a Calvinist/Presbyterian approach to this too: namely that we are all innately sinful and need fear of divine retribution (or in the case of sex, the fear of pregnancy) to keep us moral.

These are sick people with a twisted sense of humanity, and it is little wonder that their policies, while based on a pious reading of Holy Scriptures, turn out so inhumane and in the end, un-Christian.

60 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:26:08am

re: #56 Jimmah

Lopez message is quite simple, when you boil it down:

Women, Know Your Limits!

LOL.
"...but I do love little kittens."
Classic.

Hey, what a sec.... I like kittens too!
/raises table napkin to mouth to hide his shame

61 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:27:23am

re: #41 Romantic Heretic

Whenever I read these sexist screeds I always end up thinking, "Somebody really needs to get laid." Because I hear a lot of envy in rants like this.

They're pretty much saying, "If I can't get any, nobody else can either."

Also, I suspect, "if I can't enjoy it, then nobody else can either."

"After all no-one could really like something as horrible as sex. Sex is only good because it has a purpose - making babies."

62 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:27:58am

re: #47 Gus 802

Yeah. This was my other option.

I updinged because im afraid to click your link.

63 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:28:28am

I will also admit that I, quite simply, have a lot of trouble understanding women espousing this kind of thinking. I just don't get it. I mean, I know people can be sold on ideas that run counter to their own interests, but that doesn't mean I can fathom why some women want to reduce our role to being housewives and baby makers. I mean, not just having those feelings, but loudly announcing them to the world and actively working to try and make them a reality.

64 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:28:42am

So this chick has to be married with several children and has never used birth control because she has never had premarital sex, and why the heck would anyone need to be on the pill if they are married? Am I right? Huh, am I?

65 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:28:50am

re: #58 HappyWarrior

I never understood Phyllis Schalafy. Ok, rant against women's rights while you yourself are a woman. And it's worth noting that every Republican president until Reagan supported ERA I believe.

Republican Party Platform of 1956

(Equal Rights) We recommend to Congress the submission of a constituti­onal amendment providing equal rights for men and women.

66 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:28:59am

re: #35 Gus 802

Wait until the anti-divorce crowd starts showing up. Or the ones that want to create obstacles to divorce. We can be like the old "Catholic countries" where divorce was forbidden.

Newt won't like that one.

67 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:29:04am

re: #62 iceweasel

I updinged because im afraid to click your link.

Looks...
Industrial.

68 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:30:27am

re: #63 Simply Sarah

I will also admit that I, quite simply, have a lot of trouble understanding women espousing this kind of thinking. I just don't get it. I mean, I know people can be sold on ideas that run counter to their own interests, but that doesn't mean I can fathom why some women want to reduce our role to being housewives and baby makers. I mean, not just having those feelings, but loudly announcing them to the world and actively working to try and make them a reality.

Women are some of the worst misogynists. I figured that out in middle school.

69 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:06am

re: #65 Gus 802

Republican Party Platform of 1956

(Equal Rights) We recommend to Congress the submission of a constituti­onal amendment providing equal rights for men and women.

Other stuff from that link:

In addition, the Eisenhower Administration has enforced more vigorously and effectively than ever before, the laws which protect the working standards of our people.

Workers have benefited by the progress which has been made in carrying out the programs and principles set forth in the 1952 Republican platform. All workers have gained and unions have grown in strength and responsibility, and have increased their membership by 2 millions.

Furthermore, the process of free collective bargaining has been strengthened by the insistence of this Administration that labor and management settle their differences at the bargaining table without the intervention of the Government. This policy has brought to our country an unprecedented period of labor-management peace and understanding.

We applaud the effective, unhindered, collective bargaining which brought an early end to the 1956 steel strike, in contrast to the six months' upheaval, Presidential seizure of the steel industry and ultimate Supreme Court intervention under the last Democrat Administration.

The Eisenhower Administration will continue to fight for dynamic and progressive programs which, among other things, will:

Stimulate improved job safety of our workers, through assistance to the States, employees and employers;

Continue and further perfect its programs of assistance to the millions of workers with special employment problems, such as older workers, handicapped workers, members of minority groups, and migratory workers;

Strengthen and improve the Federal-State Employment Service and improve the effectiveness of the unemployment insurance system;

Protect by law, the assets of employee welfare and benefit plans so that workers who are the beneficiaries can be assured of their rightful benefits;

Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex;

70 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:15am

re: #65 Gus 802

Republican Party Platform of 1956

(Equal Rights) We recommend to Congress the submission of a constituti­onal amendment providing equal rights for men and women.

"Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: "In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative.""

Man, is so wish a Zombie Eisenhower would run.....

71 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:20am

Of course, it doesn't stop at just doing away with contraceptives and abortion. Next comes barring women from the workplace, since women should be relying on men for their income, like good little wives. Along with that comes barring them from college, since it's a waste to send girls who are just gonna end up pregnant and in the kitchen to college. And finally, ending no-fault divorce, because "til death do us part" means something, damnit!

There, we're back to the way God intended America, the 1950s mindset in a 21st century world. All happy little Stepford Wives, birthing the next generation of Americans for Uncle Sam.

"The Handmaid's Tale," anyone?

72 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:42am

re: #67 Varek Raith

Looks...
Industrial.

LOL, yeah, I just took a chance and clicked. O_o

73 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:46am

re: #57 Gus 802

Prophylactics kill a swimming sperm!

//

"...he could have been a poet or he could have been a fool - oh you did a bad thing"

/The Smiths

74 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:47am

Until 1974, the German Constitution included a passage that stated that women were responsible for maintataining the household and raising for children, and until 1959, the husband's decisions were considered binding on all family matters, including his wife's employment.

75 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:31:55am

-No, we're really not free in the end. We only free if we live in God's Way.

-Women should not be allowed to gain pleasure from sex (unless her pleasure is consummation/satisfying her husband).

-Women should not be allowed to have control over fertility.

This woman basically wove a PIP (Pseudo Intellectual Pretzel) around these concepts.

76 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:32:00am

What I want to know is - I get the MatureSinglesOnly ad at the top, but why does this thread, of all things, still bring up Rand Paul telling me Obama is afraid in big bold letters?

77 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:32:02am

re: #70 Ericus58

"Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: "In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative.""

Man, is so wish a Zombie Eisenhower would run...

Yeah. When I think of the Republican Party of today I sometimes think to myself, "this is not my father's Republican Party."

78 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:32:20am

re: #57 Gus 802

Prophylactics kill a swimming sperm!

//

79 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:32:38am

re: #70 Ericus58

"Our great President Dwight D. Eisenhower has counseled us further: "In all those things which deal with people, be liberal, be human. In all those things which deal with people's money, or their economy, or their form of government, be conservative.""

Man, is so wish a Zombie Eisenhower would run...


With a Zombie Nixon as his running mate?

80 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:33:29am

re: #65 Gus 802

Republican Party Platform of 1956

(Equal Rights) We recommend to Congress the submission of a constituti­onal amendment providing equal rights for men and women.

I think Thomas Dewey supported ERA too. It really is mindblowing that the Republicans instead of growing more socially progressive have become more reactionary on these issues. Remember reading this story about Goldwater telling Bob Dolel about how he and Bob were now liberals in the GOP. It just amazes me that men like Goldwater and also Jerry Ford both who would be close to and in Goldie's case over 100 were more ahead on women and gay's rights than people like Lopez whom I wikied and see that she was born in 76.

81 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:33:41am

re: #69 Gus 802

Other stuff from that link:

The wingnuts do not approve!

Warning: Links to Landover Baptist butthurt message board.

82 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:33:44am

re: #66 CuriousLurker

Newt won't like that one.

'course he will. Nothing prevents him from buggering anything that moves. After all, if the wife doesn't agree, she'll...oh wait, that's right, she can't leave. Just get told, in so many words, that his infidelity is due to her failure as a wife, not to his inability to stay true to his vows.

83 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:33:47am

re: #79 ralphieboy

With a Zombie Nixon as his running mate?

Image: Robo_Nixon.png
NIXON'S BACK! MUHAHAHAHA!

84 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:34:19am

re: #69 Gus 802

Other stuff from that link:

Well no wonder the JBS thought Eisenhower was a communist.

85 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:34:36am

re: #84 moderatelyradicalliberal

Well no wonder the JBS thought Eisenhower was a communist.

They still do.

86 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:35:38am

re: #71 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
If you are familiar with the Honorverse this is the type of world Judith escaped from when she and 400 other women took (yes it was stolen) a starship into space.

87 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:35:46am

re: #66 CuriousLurker

Newt won't like that one.

I'd bet that New Newt™ would probably like it.

88 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:36:10am

re: #68 moderatelyradicalliberal

Women are some of the worst misogynists. I figured that out in middle school.

I know, I just wish I understood WHY. Are we still beaten down so much that we need to turn inward in self-loathing like this? Like, clearly things are better for women than it used to be, but I wonder how much of that is just on the surface and how much actually has real depth to it.

89 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:36:21am

re: #79 ralphieboy

With a Zombie Nixon as his running mate?

Dude - I'll take Nixon over .... well, just about any of the current crop of contenders actually.

/now that Spiro T. Agnew guy...... we gotta talk.

90 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:36:56am

"And if I had to do it over again I would do it differently. I learned my lesson though and asked for God's forgiveness through prayer." New Newt™

//

91 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:37:05am

re: #88 Simply Sarah
They are afraid of any type of progress.

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:37:19am

re: #89 Ericus58

/now that Spiro T. Agnew guy... we gotta talk.

You nattering nabob of negativism!

93 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:37:31am

re: #66 CuriousLurker

Newt won't like that one.

Sure he would. He became a Catholic after he got all of his divorces, remember? No thing he did before that matters.

//

94 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:37:53am

re: #93 moderatelyradicalliberal

Sure he would. He became a Catholic after he got all of his divorces, remember? No thing he did before that matters.

//

See above.

//

95 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:39:22am

re: #90 Gus 802

"And if I had to do it over again I would do it differently. I learned my lesson though and asked for God's forgiveness through prayer." New Newt™

//


Men can pray, be reborn and leave their past behind. Women get stuck raising their children...

96 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:39:25am

re: #92 ralphieboy

You nattering nabob of negativism!

Upding for the Dr. Smith quote!

97 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:39:27am

re: #89 Ericus58

Dude - I'll take Nixon over ... well, just about any of the current crop of contenders actually.

/now that Spiro T. Agnew guy... we gotta talk.

Are you sure???

98 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:40:22am

Regarding Nixon, I don't think there's a president that I don't have more mixed emotions about. I want to hate the guy for being a dick but I want to admire him in other ways too. I actually wrote a research paper that focused exclusively on his domestic policies. His memoirs were an interesting read for sure. In the standard presidential bios you read in textbooks, Nixon's father, Frank is painted as an orthodox Republican but in all actuality it seems that he was more of a progressive in the type of Robert LaFollite.

99 kirkspencer  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:40:40am

One underlying assumption is that a woman's primary purpose is to breed. A woman who regardless of all other accomplishes does not have children is a failure. Taking that further, then, is that a woman who delays their primary purpose is shirking their duty.

Adam and Eve lost for us the right to happiness for its own sake, and what we are left with is the duty God has given us and the happiness that comes from doing that duty. Those who shirk their duty, who seek happiness outside their duty, are against God.

Or so the assumption goes.

100 teleskiguy  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:41:09am

Have you noticed that women who are against abortion are women you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place? There's such a balance in nature.
-George Carlin

101 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:42:04am

"And you gotta understand that at the time I was relatively young. Right now if this happened today I would keep the Jaguar instead of trading it in for a Cheverolet. Perhaps I would buy it new rims, tires and replace the headliner." New Newt™

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:44:11am

re: #56 Jimmah

Lopez message is quite simple, when you boil it down:

Women, Know Your Limits!

And keep your virtue!

103 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:44:35am

re: #88 Simply Sarah

I know, I just wish I understood WHY. Are we still beaten down so much that we need to turn inward in self-loathing like this? Like, clearly things are better for women than it used to be, but I wonder how much of that is just on the surface and how much actually has real depth to it.

Oppressed people participate in their own oppression all the time. They're made collaboraters.

104 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:47:06am

re: #88 Simply Sarah

I know, I just wish I understood WHY. Are we still beaten down so much that we need to turn inward in self-loathing like this? Like, clearly things are better for women than it used to be, but I wonder how much of that is just on the surface and how much actually has real depth to it.

It's the internalizing of hatred that has been directed at you all of your life. You see it in other groups. There are some black people who don't like other black people with very dark skin even though having lighter skin does not save them from exposure to racism. It's the internalization of white supremacy. There are some gay men who do not like other gay men who are "effeminate". They want to distance themselves from the stereotypes about gay men being weak and girly even thought anti-gay bigots still don't like them either. Asians who get eye surgery, Jews (or other white ethnics) who get rhinoplasty, I could go on and on and on. It makes sense, in that it provides a false sense of security and protection from being a hated minority or marginalized group. Oh, and it's often unconscious and anyone engaging in it will deny it.

105 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:47:39am

A brief bio of Ms Lopez. [Link: encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...]

hmm no mention of family or spouse or children.

106 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:48:15am

re: #104 moderatelyradicalliberal

It makes sense, in that it provides a false sense of security and protection from being a hated minority or marginalized group. Oh, and it's often unconscious and anyone engaging in it will deny it.

Exactly. Every word.

Great comment.

107 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:48:16am

re: #103 iceweasel

Oppressed people participate in their own oppression all the time. They're made collaboraters.

Exactly.

108 jea62  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:48:50am

What Ms. Lopez' article is really about is the fact that birth rates among whites are down so drastically. That's what this is really all about - whites becoming a minority.

109 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:49:18am

re: #54 CuriousLurker

I do sometimes wonder if a lot of it is the projection of what they feel are their own personal failings and weaknesses onto others. I may feel I have the right to sleep with whomever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want (With, obviously, some exceptions), but that doesn't mean I actually want or will sleep with more than a few of the people I run into.

Women, like men, have a sex drive and it can sometimes get a bit out of control, but I trust myself to be able to keep it from getting so out of control that I start try to bed every person I see. Perhaps Ms. Lopez lacks such a level of trust in herself and assumes that's the case for all women.

110 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:50:06am

re: #91 PhillyPretzel

They are afraid of any type of progress.

I think you're pretty close there, however I believe it's more a fear of choices than a fear of progress.

With with freedom comes choices, with choices comes responsibility. Despite all the talk about "personal responsibility", I think many people are terrified of it. If someone else is making decisions for you, then THEY are responsible for any unfortunate outcomes as you were simply following orders. If you have to make your own choices, then you lose the ability to blame someone else for your failures and/or unhappiness.

111 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:51:47am

re: #109 Simply Sarah

I do sometimes wonder if a lot of it is the projection of what they feel are their own personal failings and weaknesses onto others. I may feel I have the right to sleep with whomever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want (With, obviously, some exceptions), but that doesn't mean I actually want or will sleep with more than a few of the people I run into.

This is the heart of homophobia, by the way. All those people claiming gay people can't be monogamous-- projection, pure and simple.

112 treasured people  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:55:53am

Good news from Israel. A new missile defense system is in place that will effectively knock out incoming rockets. Only problem is that each missile costs 100K. Well, it's good Israel just struck oil and gas off the northern coast to defray the cost.

113 skidancer  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:56:26am

This is real. Legislation is not.

114 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:58:11am

Kinda OT but man I am re-reading my paper on Nixon and I have little doubt he'd be derided as a RINO today. Newt Gingrich talks about abolishing the EPA while Nixon created it. Just amazing.

115 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:00:04pm

re: #110 CuriousLurker

I think you're pretty close there, however I believe it's more a fear of choices than a fear of progress.

With with freedom comes choices, with choices comes responsibility. Despite all the talk about "personal responsibility", I think many people are terrified of it. If someone else is making decisions for you, then THEY are responsible for any unfortunate outcomes as you were simply following orders. If you have to make your own choices, then you lose the ability to blame someone else for your failures and/or unhappiness.

You see it in authoritarian regimes, the people willingly becoming sheep, if only because it frees them from having to solve their own problems. The regime gives them jobs, gives them homes, gives them purpose, and they thrive in it. They are often the ones who most adamantly argue against toppling the regime, as they can only see the good things it has done for them, rationalizing the bad things away as "the price of peace/prosperity/etc." But, of course, when that regime does fall, they're always the first to stand up and scream "Befehl ist Befehl! I was only following orders!," that they didn't agree with the horrors that were happening by their hands, they just did what they were told.

Of note is that, in almost any authoritarian regime you care to name, one of the tenets was the promotion of the "family" as a necessary part of the regime working efficiently. That women were to "celebrate" their roles as wives and mothers, doing their "duty" in bearing and raising the sons who'd protect the country and do the heavy-lifting, as well as the daughters who'd go on to be wives and mothers themselves. Contraception was frowned upon, if not outright banned, and women were generally barred from professions that were seen as "man's work." From birth to death, a woman's "job" was to be a dutiful little hausfrau, nothing more.

116 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:01:17pm

K-Lo is influenced by people like this:

Fear of Reese Witherspoon Look-Alikes on the Pill

I was once approving of Ross Douthat as a New York Times oped columnist. But that was when I was younger. And easily misled.

From Ross Douthat, Privilege, bottom of p. 184:

One successful foray ended on the guest bed of a high school friend's parents, with a girl who resembled a chunkier Reese Witherspoon drunkenly masticating my neck and cheeks. It had taken some time to reach this point--"Do most Harvard guys take so long to get what they want?" she had asked, pushing her tongue into my mouth. I wasn't sure what to say, but then I wasn't sure this was what I wanted. My throat was dry from too much vodka, and her breasts, spilling out of pink pajamas, threatened my ability to. I was supposed to be excited, but I was bored and somewhat disgusted with myself, with her, with the whole business... and then whatever residual enthusiasm I felt for the venture dissipated, with shocking speed, as she nibbled at my ear and whispered--"You know, I'm on the pill..."

What squicks me out is (a) that the real turnoff for Ross Douthat is that she has taken responsibility for her own fertility and gone on the pill, and (b) that Ross Douthat does not take this to be a learning moment--is not self-reflective enough to say "Hmmm... If there are other men like me who are turned off by women who take responsibility for fertility control, isn't that likely to be a cause of more abortions?"

117 researchok  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:01:32pm

My two cents:

Rather than be the same as men, women ought to strive to be better than men.

The pornification of young girls, the sexualization of every aspect of a woman's persona and so on, has only served to encourage men to behave basely.

As the father of a daughter, I am proud she has choices. That said, as CL notes, with choices comes responsibility.

We are free to eat at the buffet every day of the week. It isn't necessarily what is good for us. Pointing that out is not a bad thing.

118 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:02:18pm

I read an article. This is what I read. I am a women and I think like this. I think other women think and do things like this. If all women thought like me and people that think like me then all the world would be better. Plus I really need all other women to think and be exactly like me because if they don't then there might be something wrong with the way I think because obviously there is only one right way for women to be women and for women to think about life.

I cannot function properly unless all people live and function in the same way.

It's too confusing.

119 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:02:20pm

re: #108 jea62

What Ms. Lopez' article is really about is the fact that birth rates among whites are down so drastically. That's what this is really all about - whites becoming a minority.

Yep, and I've seen wingnuts explicitly state versions of this. For example, the notion that us foolish liberal westerners with our progressive society are experiencing lower birth rates while the Islamic world are forging 'ahead' at an unstoppable rate. (Wingnuts, of course, feel that fundamentalist Islam has got it mostly right when it comes to sexual attitudes.)

120 Achilles Tang  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:02:46pm

That Lopez essay struck me as mostly incoherent, and when it finished with the phrase, "a talk about what it means to be human", I thought that most people already know that. Clearly this woman doesn't.

121 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:04:13pm

re: #112 treasured people

I updinged for the news on the defensive missile system.
But that page carried ads for groups like JONAH and NARTH.
Not cool.

122 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:05:20pm

Kathryn Lopez did a FIAT on us.

Feigned
Intellectual
Atavistic
Theory

123 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:06:01pm

re: #121 Ericus58

I updinged for the news on the defensive missile system.
But that page carried ads for groups like JONAH and NARTH.
Not cool.

Who are they?

124 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:06:52pm

re: #123 iceweasel

Who are they?

JONAH = Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality

125 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:07:07pm

re: #123 iceweasel

Who are they?

Anti-gay groups. I just looked them up on Wikipedia.

126 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:07:37pm

re: #124 Gus 802

JONAH = Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality

Oh. my. yikes. jimmah just googled NARTH too.

127 Jadespring  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:07:53pm

re: #123 iceweasel

Who are they?

Anti homosexuality groups.

128 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:08:21pm

re: #123 iceweasel

Who are they?

"JONAH, Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing, is a non-profit international organization dedicated to educating the world-wide Jewish community about the social, cultural and emotional factors which lead to same-sex attractions. JONAH works directly with those struggling with unwanted same-sex sexual attractions (SSA) and with families whose loved ones are involved in homosexuality.."

NARTH is similar.

I welcome them to their religious beliefs but can't agree with them.
That goes for any religion in this regard.

129 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:08:26pm

re: #126 iceweasel

Oh. my. yikes. jimmah just googled NARTH too.

Hi Ice and Jimmah!

130 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:09:00pm

re: #127 Jadespring

re: #125 CuriousLurker

re: #124 Gus 802

Thank all you people not too lazy to google, like me. :)

I never heard of these guys before.

131 CuriousLurker  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:09:29pm

I've gotta get back to work. TTYL, lizards.

132 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:09:35pm

re: #126 iceweasel

Oh. my. yikes. jimmah just googled NARTH too.

Which stands for...

National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality

133 researchok  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:09:37pm

re: #130 iceweasel

re: #125 CuriousLurker

re: #124 Gus 802

Thank all you people not too lazy to google, like me. :)

I never heard of these guys before.

You aren't missing much.

134 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:09:40pm

re: #117 researchok

I agree in part. To me, really, I'd like people to get to a point where we don't actually worry about women being lesser than or equal or greater than men, because we'd have moved beyond where that has any meaning and instead just see a person as a person. I mean, yes, there are differences between the average male and average female, but I don't see where that makes a difference.

As for oversexualization of women, I think there is certainly truth to that. This is where things get a bit tricky, since I feel a woman should have the right to, if she so wishes, have highly sexual self. It just becomes a problem of trying say this is allowed without actively encouraging it and making it what is expected as the norm, which we seem to be having some trouble with.

135 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:09:53pm

re: #128 Ericus58

"JONAH, Jews Offering New Alternatives for Healing, is a non-profit international organization dedicated to educating the world-wide Jewish community about the social, cultural and emotional factors which lead to same-sex attractions. JONAH works directly with those struggling with unwanted same-sex sexual attractions (SSA) and with families whose loved ones are involved in homosexuality.."

NARTH is similar.

I welcome them to their religious beliefs but can't agree with them.
That goes for any religion in this regard.

I'm with you.

136 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:10:17pm

re: #129 HoosierHoops

Hi Ice and Jimmah!

Hi there Hoops! Hows Winston?

137 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:10:43pm

Hi Hoops! How are you? How's OK?

138 Ericus58  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:10:54pm

Sure enjoyed the time spent with you all here again.
Take care and be well.

139 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:11:36pm

re: #136 Jimmah

Hi there Hoops! Hows Winston?

sleeping next to me.. Hope you guys are doing well

140 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:12:24pm

George Reker was a member of NARTH...

George Alan Reker's announces his resignation from the National Association of Research and Therapy of of Homosexuality, the "ex-gay" organization.

It's almost word for word like Larry Craig. Genuinely sad. Pathological on many levels. But sad on so many levels of human suffering, with Rekers as both victim and victimizer.

Let me get your luggage sir. /

141 jaunte  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:12:38pm

re: #61 Jimmah

Also, I suspect, "if I can't enjoy it, then nobody else can either."

"After all no-one could really like something as horrible as sex. Sex is only good because it has a purpose - making babies."

Anything fun is a temptation to pay more attention to your individual wants, and stop paying attention to being obedient to your leaders.

142 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:13:15pm

re: #139 HoosierHoops

sleeping next to me.. Hope you guys are doing well

we're digesting lasagna and trying not to spoil our cats like you spoil little winston. :) Good to see you, hope you're doing great!

143 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:13:17pm
144 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:13:52pm

re: #137 iceweasel

Hi Hoops! How are you? How's OK?

Doing well.. I love living next to OU..Lot's of stuff to do here

145 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:15:39pm

Let's see. I'm going to Bermuda next month. I need someone to assist me in my travels. My church doesn't have anyone available for a full week. Hmm, this site looks interesting. Rent Boy, novel name, maybe they can provide me with a travel assistant.

//

146 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:16:45pm

Uh sir. That's a gay escort site.

It is? How can you tell?

//

147 iceweasel  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:17:08pm

re: #140 Gus 802

George Reker was a member of NARTH...

Let me get your luggage sir. /

AHAHAHAHAHA-- I'd forgotten his name!

luggage-lifting shall be in the lexicon again. Ohyes.

148 researchok  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:18:06pm

re: #134 Simply Sarah

I agree in part. To me, really, I'd like people to get to a point where we don't actually worry about women being lesser than or equal or greater than men, because we'd have moved beyond where that has any meaning and instead just see a person as a person. I mean, yes, there are differences between the average male and average female, but I don't see where that makes a difference.

As for oversexualization of women, I think there is certainly truth to that. This is where things get a bit tricky, since I feel a woman should have the right to, if she so wishes, have highly sexual self. It just becomes a problem of trying say this is allowed without actively encouraging it and making it what is expected as the norm, which we seem to be having some trouble with.

I have no issue with healthy sexuality. Indeed, a woman has and should have the freedom to be as sexual as she pleases. It is in how we get there that poses the problem.

Magazines geared toward teens (and often read by pre teens) extolling the techniques of sexual activities as opposed to healthy emotional behavior does not make for a healthy sexuality. The same applies to adults- over indulging at the buffet isn't healthy, irrespective of the endeavor.

Adults understand healthy sexuality cannot be separated from healthy emotionality.

If sex is a commodity men will treat is as such. Biology dictates that to a very large degree, but that need not be the overt and principal behavior.

149 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:21:41pm

Early start tomorrow; goodnight from us both :)

150 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:25:02pm

re: #148 researchok

I have no issue with healthy sexuality. Indeed, a woman has and should have the freedom to be as sexual as she pleases. It is in how we get there that poses the problem.

Magazines geared toward teens (and often read by pre teens) extolling the techniques of sexual activities as opposed to healthy emotional behavior does not make for a healthy sexuality. The same applies to adults- over indulging at the buffet isn't healthy, irrespective of the endeavor.

Adults understand healthy sexuality cannot be separated from healthy emotionality.

If sex is a commodity men will treat is as such. Biology dictates that to a very large degree, but that need not be the overt and principal behavior.

I think that, really, it boils down to the fact that we're still trying to find the proper balance between actively condemning and actively condoning sexuality and sexual activity. I'm hopeful that, given a bit more time, we can reach a good in-between where the feeling is people are free to do as they please, both in being or not being high sexual. And yes, in general pre-teens are far too young and too undeveloped emotionally to be trying to actively push them towards considering engaging in sexual activity.

151 researchok  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:27:34pm

re: #150 Simply Sarah

I think that, really, it boils down to the fact that we're still trying to find the proper balance between actively condemning and actively condoning sexuality and sexual activity. I'm hopeful that, given a bit more time, we can reach a good in-between where the feeling is people are free to do as they please, both in being or not being high sexual. And yes, in general pre-teens are far too young and too undeveloped emotionally to be trying to actively push them towards considering engaging in sexual activity.

I can't disagree with any of that.

Like you, I hope we can reach the point where sexuality, emotionality, maturity are common.

A lot of heartache would be averted.

152 celticdragon  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:27:41pm

re: #3 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I loves me some birth control. My two planned children agree.

The Catholic socons are targeting Griswold V. Conn that established there is a constitutional right to privacy in one's own home and that states could not ban birth control for married couples.

An awful lot of right wing socons really, really hate that ruling, and insist that whatever rights you have are limited to what is enumerated in the Constitution and that there are no such things as unenumerated rights (like the right to breathe, get married, have nourishing food etc etc). A number of Founding Father expressed fears that having an explicit Bill of Rights would produce this sort of thinking.

Expect more attacks on this front. Getting rid of the the right to privacy means that Roe V Wade will be eviscerated and that the State can do anything it wants to regulate your private behavior.

How this is supposed to be small government conservatism is beyond me, but Calvanism and theocratic Catholicism were never really friendly to Enlightenment principles to begin with.

153 jaunte  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:30:44pm
That's why I want to turn back the clock -- to a time when we valued love and marriage and didn't expect, support and even encourage promiscuity. Life and history don't work that way, obviously, there is no actual rewind. But we do have opportunities to learn from our mistakes.


I would encourage K. Lopez to read some more history, specifically the history of Silverton Colorado, whose city fathers in the 1800's, while openly disparaging the 'soiled doves' of their red light district, placed the entire tax burden of the town on those women.

154 researchok  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:32:06pm

re: #150 Simply Sarah

I think that, really, it boils down to the fact that we're still trying to find the proper balance between actively condemning and actively condoning sexuality and sexual activity. I'm hopeful that, given a bit more time, we can reach a good in-between where the feeling is people are free to do as they please, both in being or not being high sexual. And yes, in general pre-teens are far too young and too undeveloped emotionally to be trying to actively push them towards considering engaging in sexual activity.

The daughter of a friend 'feel in love' and was pressured incessantly to have sex.

She finally did and was broken when the young man in question just upped and left. He got what he wanted- or at least some of it. The girl was inexperienced and thus not up to his requirements.

As you can imagine, the girl was devastated.

Yes, she'll get over it, I suppose, but the damage has been done- in that she feels she is 'less than'.

155 celticdragon  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:32:42pm

re: #103 iceweasel

Oppressed people participate in their own oppression all the time. They're made collaboraters.

Boldened for truth.

See: Female genital mutilation in SubSaharan Africa and the Middle East as a function of social controls perpetuated by females upon themselves from one generation to the next.

156 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:32:59pm

Speaking of Newt.

On the Stump, Gingrich Puts Focus on Faith

Excerpt:

On a recent winter night here, Mr. Gingrich, 67, stood on stage at a Catholic school with his wife, Callista, and introduced a film they produced about the role Pope John Paul II played in the fall of Communism in Poland. As Mr. Gingrich looked out over a crowd of 1,300 people, he warned that the United States had become too secular a society.

“To a surprising degree, we are in a situation similar to Poland’s in 1979,” he told the audience, which had gathered at a banquet for Ohio Right to Life, one of the nation’s oldest anti-abortion groups. “In America, religious belief is being challenged by a cultural elite trying to create a secularized America, in which God is driven out of public life.”

Begin eyeroll sequence now.

157 RadicalModerate  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:36:01pm

Oh, please, please let this be true.

From Barry Ritholtz's (author of the book "Bailout Nation") blog:

Roger Ailes to be Indicted

Last week, the NY Times broke the story that Roger Ailes had urged various colleagues to lie to Federal investigators; (David Corn explains the background to this here).
[Link: www.politicsdaily.com...]

Here’s what I learned recently: Someone I spoke with claimed that Ailes was scheduled to speak at their event in March, but canceled. It appears that Roger’s people, ostensibly using a clause in his contract, said he “cannot appear for legal reasons.”

I asked “What, precisely, does that mean?”

The response: “Roger Ailes will be indicted —probably this week, maybe even Monday.

158 celticdragon  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:36:07pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Speaking of Newt.

On the Stump, Gingrich Puts Focus on Faith

Excerpt:

Begin eyeroll sequence now.

This kind of historical revisionist obscenity is only possible when the target audience has no historical education whatsoever.

Funny how the GOP hates those librul social studies and history teachers, no?

159 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:36:32pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Speaking of Newt.

On the Stump, Gingrich Puts Focus on Faith

Excerpt:

Begin eyeroll sequence now.

Another one:

When the conversation turned to marriage at the end of the 30-minute interview, Mr. Gingrich seemed displeased, but fully expecting questions about his personal life along with his ideas to change the country. He said he hoped voters would “look at the totality of someone who is 67 years old and a grandfather.”

Asked if he believed that people were forgiving, he replied, “We’ll find out.”

No Newt. For myself it has nothing to do with forgiveness or your divorces of which I really could care less (other than perhaps the hypocritical aspect). It has everything to do with what comes out of your mouth. I forgive you Newt. Now go back to your cave.

160 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:42:19pm

re: #158 celticdragon

This kind of historical revisionist obscenity is only possible when the target audience has no historical education whatsoever.

Funny how the GOP hates those librul social studies and history teachers, no?

And he's perpetuating a myth. Colorado just voted to start their legislative sessions with prayer. This was passed by the Republican majority. I would have voted no. It could be contested or not. In any event there it is along with the 1000s of churches that dot the Colorado landscape. The USA is very, very, very far from being like Poland in 1979. That itself is an insult to history and those that suffered under the Communist dictatorship.

161 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:51:29pm

I know we don't do threads like this much anymore but this pisses me off....
Video: 11-year-old Palestinian stone-thrower arrested

Ynet has obtained footage showing Israeli police officers arresting an 11-year-old Palestinian who threw stones at security forces in the West Bank village of Nabi Salah on January 25.


In the video the officers can be seen putting the boy, Karim al-Tamimi, in a police vehicle after chasing him down. The boy's mother pleaded with the officers to allow her to accompany him to the Sha'ar Binyamin police station, but her request was denied.

This mother is there filming her own child throwing rocks at cars. It's bad enough that this is what she's encouraging her son to do but she films the attacks. Disgusting.

162 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:54:31pm

I think Ms Lopez should go .... pleasure herself after a few glasses of wine or mai tais. Better yet, have somebody do it for her.

Go ahead... it's OK. You won't go to hell.

163 Kronocide  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 12:56:28pm

re: #8 iceweasel

Onion point/counterpoint:
U.S. Out Of My Uterus vs

We Must Deploy Troops To Jessica Linden's Uterus Immediately

That's Uber Meta nuanced irony with a sublime satire twist on top.

Brilliant.

164 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:00:32pm

re: #160 Gus 802

God is not being banned from Public life, the people are just keeping Church and State separated. There is plenty of room for God in public life, just not as an established part of the government.

But their strategy is to make it sound as if Christianity, Family and Fertility are under attack so they can take aggressive measures to "defend" them.

165 calochortus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:01:19pm

I like to think of myself as this woman's worst nightmare. Not religious (at all, whatsoever), happy egalitarian marriage of over 3 decades, 2 kids (planned and spaced for our convenience...) Husband and I are both well educated and decided together that it would be a fine thing if I stayed home and raised the kids and kept house. No one made us do any of this.

The world does not fall apart without some authority telling women (or men) what to do about their roles in society.

166 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:02:10pm

re: #164 ralphieboy

God is not being banned from Public life, the people are just keeping Church and State separated. There is plenty of room for God in public life, just not as an established part of the government.

But their strategy is to make it sound as if Christianity, Family and Fertility are under attack so they can take aggressive measures to "defend" them.

Yes. It's in the same vein as "the war on Christmas" meme.

167 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:05:27pm

"It’s about wanting more for ourselves and for those whom we love. It’s about ending the surrender to a contraceptive mentality that treats human sexuality as just another commercial transaction. …"

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that making love with my husband, which I had previously thought of as a mutual expression of desire and love, strengthening the bonds of our marriage, and allowing us to celebrate one another as whole human beings, was actually just another commercial transaction because I was on the Pill.

Thank you, Ms. Lopez, you've ruined my Sunday morning.

//

168 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:05:33pm

re: #61 Jimmah

Also, I suspect, "if I can't enjoy it, then nobody else can either."

"After all no-one could really like something as horrible as sex. Sex is only good because it has a purpose - making babies."

Anhedonia as a basis for public policy really sucks.

169 RadicalModerate  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:05:34pm

Lots of pictures from yesterday's big pro-labor rally that was held in Madison, WI.
Unlike a typical Tea Party demonstration, not a single misspelled sign is to be seen.

Wisconsin - Awestruck, a photo diary

170 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:05:35pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Yes. It's in the same vein as "the war on Christmas" meme.

There are plenty of places to put up a Nativity scene, they do not have to be in public parks or properties.

As it is, I am perfectly fine with having Christians encroach on our ancient pagan midwinter festivities as long as they keep the message focused on "Peace on Earth and goodwill to men (and women and children)"

171 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:05:41pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Yes. It's in the same vein as "the war on Christmas" meme.

Damn Elves...

172 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:06:58pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

Damn Elves...

/their not rebelling now too, are they?

173 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:07:32pm

re: #172 brookly red

/their not rebelling now too, are they?

Only the ones in the coal mines...

174 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:07:56pm

re: #169 RadicalModerate

"I teach criminals to respect your rights"

Ouch. LOL.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:08:14pm

re: #17 iceweasel

Contraception is not the solution. What the hell is the problem anyway again? According to her? Pill-popping?

I don't exactly POP them. I take one a bedtime after I brush my teeth.

176 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:08:19pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

Only the ones in the coal mines...

well what part of naughty did they not understand?

177 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:08:48pm

re: #171 Varek Raith

Damn Elves...

I thought they were now outsourced.

//

178 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:08:58pm

re: #176 brookly red

well what part of naughty did they not understand?

Exactly.
Smithers, release the hounds.

179 calochortus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:10:16pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

Umm, yeah.

Then there's the fact that there were some Rh incompatibility issues with my second pregnancy and as the result, I wasn't likely to be able to be able to carry a third child to term and it would only get worse after that. So my husband and I should have been practicing abstinence for the rest of our marriage? Or should I just go ahead and miscarry regularly?
What a great idea./

180 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:12:03pm

BBIAB.
...Assuming the windows 7 service pack doesn't nuke my pc.

181 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:12:18pm

re: #178 Varek Raith

Exactly.
Smithers, release the hounds.

/the hounds are staging a slow down Sir, something about their veterinary benefits...

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:13:51pm

re: #105 PhillyPretzel

A brief bio of Ms Lopez. [Link: encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com...]

hmm no mention of family or spouse or children.

And apparently her work has been featured in Playboy. Reaching out to the heathens, I see.

183 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:13:59pm

re: #181 brookly red

/the hounds are staging a slow down Sir, something about their veterinary benefits...

I would think a dog would protest to not have vet benefits, just so they don't have to go.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:16:00pm

re: #121 Ericus58

I updinged for the news on the defensive missile system.
But that page carried ads for groups like JONAH and NARTH.
Not cool.

A7 is seriously weird at times. My principal is, if they run it, check for the JPost story.

185 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:16:49pm

Dear K-Lo,

No love,
Sane America

186 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:18:17pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Speaking of Newt.

On the Stump, Gingrich Puts Focus on Faith

Excerpt:

Begin eyeroll sequence now.

And Mr. Gingrich wants to create an America where if you don't believe in his version of God, you should be treated with contempt. Seriously, how people take Newt frigging Gingrich seriously on moral issues is a joke. I'd trust a prostitute or a pimp on omral issues more than Newt Gingrich and I am not kidding here.

187 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:18:55pm

re: #9 Obdicut

Apparently, this is really offensive to some people, that women could have sex without the risk of pregnancy. God knows why.

Because that would mean that women are having sex for the sheer joy and pleasure of it. That's why.

Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex. They're supposed to fear it because of the inevitable risk of pregnancy. Take away the risk and you take away the fear, which means that women will actually like sex and want it.

188 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:19:36pm

It's amazing how people like Kathryn Lopez blatantly lie about those Planned Parenthood sting videos. PP reported the incidents where Lila Rose's actors pretended to be prostitutes immediately, long before Rose's edited videos were released.

But they just repeat this lie without any compunctions, over and over, like robotic parrots. It's bizarre, almost sociopathic behavior.

189 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:23:39pm

Kathryn "Dugger" Lopez.

Yeah. That's healthy.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:24:54pm

re: #153 jaunte

I would encourage K. Lopez to read some more history, specifically the history of Silverton Colorado, whose city fathers in the 1800's, while openly disparaging the 'soiled doves' of their red light district, placed the entire tax burden of the town on those women.

I think a big problem is that people who see issues with modern-day sexuality tend to assume that if we could just go back--to the 50s, to the Victorians, whatever--we would find a better, purer way of handling it. The fact that in real life, sexuality in those times routinely didn't live up to cultural ideals--in sickening ways--doesn't seem to faze them, perhaps because they're not attracted so much to purity as to the power that those cultural ideals gave certain people.

I think one of the problems we are having now is that, frankly, for thousands of years, women were never given a self-motivated, authentic opportunity to control and enjoy their sexuality. Because their sexuality was in fact--ironic, Ms. Lopez--a commercial product. We're now in a world in which women can no longer be controlled by economic pressure to be chaste (or unchaste). Turns out there wasn't much behind the facade.

That said, I do not think that having some chick who writes for the National Review tell me about how I'd be happier if she took away my birth control is really going to cast light on anything.

191 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:25:24pm

re: #186 HappyWarrior

Seriously, how people take Newt frigging Gingrich seriously on moral issues is a joke.

It's like taking Limbaugh seriously on matters of war, or O'Reilly seriously when he talks about women. It just doesn't compute.

I'm convinced that Newt thinks he "won" the government shutdown battle in the 90's and that the Clinton impeachment made him and the rest of the GOP look good. It's the only explanation for why he's even bothering to have a public profile these days. He's delusional if he thinks he has a shot in hell of winning the White House.

192 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:28:22pm

re: #191 Lidane

It's like taking Limbaugh seriously on matters of war, or O'Reilly seriously when he talks about women. It just doesn't compute.

I'm convinced that Newt thinks he "won" the government shutdown battle in the 90's and that the Clinton impeachment made him and the rest of the GOP look good. It's the only explanation for why he's even bothering to have a public profile these days. He's delusional if he thinks he has a shot in hell of winning the White House.

I don't think for a moment even he believes he can win, but I don't think anyone would disagree that he can influence the conversation, and that I think is the intention.

193 jaunte  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:28:33pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist


...perhaps because they're not attracted so much to purity as to the power that those cultural ideals gave certain people.


I think that's it exactly. Lopez is not talking about what she pretends to be talking about.

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:28:52pm

re: #183 EmmmieG

I would think a dog would protest to not have vet benefits, just so they don't have to go.

"I'll just eat some grass and throw up in the back yard. I'll be fine."

195 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:28:52pm

re: #188 Charles

It's amazing that people like Kathryn Lopez can blatantly lie about those Planned Parenthood sting videos. PP reported the incidents where Lila Rose's actors pretended to be prostitutes immediately, long before Rose's edited videos were released.

But they just repeat this lie without any compunctions, over and over, like robotic parrots. It's bizarre, almost sociopathic behavior.

Simply repeat the same lie often enough, loudly enough, and people will assume it's the truth. Worked for ACORN, worked for "Obamacare," it will likely work for this as well. When you have a media that passes off editorials as "news" and prints whichever version of the truth helps the side the management supports, the truth will forever be available only to those who go looking for it.

196 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:31:26pm

re: #150 Simply Sarah

I think that, really, it boils down to the fact that we're still trying to find the proper balance between actively condemning and actively condoning sexuality and sexual activity. I'm hopeful that, given a bit more time, we can reach a good in-between where the feeling is people are free to do as they please, both in being or not being high sexual. And yes, in general pre-teens are far too young and too undeveloped emotionally to be trying to actively push them towards considering engaging in sexual activity.

As a writer of erotica this is something I struggle with all the time. Well, I don't expect pre-teens or younger teens to read my work. I know that teenagers do.

But striking a balance between the sheer joy of a sexual act while including the responsibility involved in it can be awfully tricky.

Generally I find the best bet is to make sure the characters have an emotional connection. Erotica works if they very much like one another, best if they're crazy in love. When characters, or people for that matter, care, acts of intimacy have great value.

To my mind this is what separates erotica from porn. Erotica, I hope, teaches people to value their partner and the act of sex. Porn reduces people and the act to cheap, flat and boring characters.

YMMV and all that.

197 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:31:30pm

re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist

"I'll just eat some grass and throw up in the back yard. I'll be fine."

/ what, a $20 copay for that?

198 calochortus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:32:06pm

re: #191 Lidane

Newt has in fact begun to spin the government shut-down as being a fine thing. I guess it's been long enough for people to have forgotten.

199 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:32:15pm
200 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:34:08pm

re: #157 RadicalModerate

Oh, please, please let this be true.

From Barry Ritholtz's (author of the book "Bailout Nation") blog:

Roger Ailes to be Indicted

I'm kvelling at the moment. Schadenfreude is such a wonderful thing.

Bad of me I know but I don't care.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:36:25pm

re: #199 Charles

Here's that cartoon that Geert Wilders suppressed:

Image: wilderscartoon.jpg

Douche? Why yes, you are!

Oh. It's in French.

//

202 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:36:46pm

re: #200 Romantic Heretic

I'm kvelling at the moment. Schadenfreude is such a wonderful thing.

Bad of me I know but I don't care.

I love to use that word but I can never spell it right...

203 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:38:04pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Douche? Why yes, you are!

Oh. It's in French.

//

/now you've done it. do you remember the last time some one said "douche" here?

204 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:40:55pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Douche? Why yes, you are!

Oh. It's in French.

//


For Geert.

205 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:41:31pm

re: #169 RadicalModerate

Lots of pictures from yesterday's big pro-labor rally that was held in Madison, WI.
Unlike a typical Tea Party demonstration, not a single misspelled sign is to be seen.

Wisconsin - Awestruck, a photo diary

They are all afraid the teachers will put them in a dunce cap so they take extra special care to spell their signs correctly.

206 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:42:23pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

I think one of the problems we are having now is that, frankly, for thousands of years, women were never given a self-motivated, authentic opportunity to control and enjoy their sexuality. Because their sexuality was in fact--ironic, Ms. Lopez--a commercial product. We're now in a world in which women can no longer be controlled by economic pressure to be chaste (or unchaste).

That's what kills me. It's like all these chastity fanatics don't know anything about history. For thousands of years, a woman's virginity was used by her family to secure political/financial connections. Marriage was rarely about love or affection and more about aligning your family with theirs for the best advantages you could get. The idea of sex purely for fun or as a sign of affection for your spouse is a recent one.

Birth control firmly places a woman's body and her sexuality in her hands, not anyone else's. She can make her own decisions. That's too much of a threat for some folks, I guess.

207 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:42:54pm

re: #205 moderatelyradicalliberal

They are all afraid the teachers will put them in a dunce cap so they take extra special care to spell their signs correctly.

I would not want to be the teacher that showed up with a mis-spelled sign... juss saying.

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:43:26pm

re: #205 moderatelyradicalliberal

They are all afraid the teachers will put them in a dunce cap so they take extra special care to spell their signs correctly.

I like the cop with the sign saying "I teach criminals to respect YOUR rights".

209 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:43:40pm

re: #124 Gus 802

JONAH = Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality

And what would these new alternatives be? Does this mean that they acknowledge that the old alternatives (celibacy and pretending to be straight) haven't worked so well?

210 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:44:17pm

re: #205 moderatelyradicalliberal

They are all afraid the teachers will put them in a dunce cap so they take extra special care to spell their signs correctly.

No one wants to show up at a protest of teachers with a misspelled sign.
XD

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:44:51pm

re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal

And what would these new alternatives be? Does this mean that they acknowledge that the old alternatives (celibacy and pretending to be straight) haven't worked so well?

No, it's one of these rip-off things where they fix you through therapy.

212 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:45:20pm

re: #198 calochortus

Newt has in fact begun to spin the government shut-down as being a fine thing. I guess it's been long enough for people to have forgotten.

Well, the GOP has certainly forgotten a lot of things.

They forgot that Perot's incoherent populism was a bad idea, and now we've got the Tea Party. They've forgotten that the government shutdown almost certainly led to Clinton being re-elected, and it would do much the same for Obama if they pull that trigger. They've forgotten that Clinton's numbers went UP after he was impeached, so they're now making noise about impeaching Obama over DOMA.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so damned pathetic.

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:46:03pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

No, it's one of these rip-off things where they fix you through therapy.

I read an amazingly funny article in Jane Magazine some years ago--ah, Jane, I miss you yet--by a young gay man who signed up with several of these 'make you straight' outfits, and reported on it for Jane.

214 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:46:44pm

re: #199 Charles

Here's that cartoon that Geert Wilders suppressed:

Image: wilderscartoon.jpg

Ah, the glory of the internet. Once something is out there, it's out there forever. Sometimes that is even better than other times.

215 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:47:11pm

re: #199 Charles

Here's that cartoon that Geert Wilders suppressed:

Image: wilderscartoon.jpg

The irony was no doubt missed by Geert and his pals.

216 Charles Johnson  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:47:16pm

Here's the advertisement that Kathryn Lopez is so horrified about, that doesn't show the pain and desperation she just knows these women really feel:

217 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:48:11pm

re: #206 Lidane

That's what kills me. It's like all these chastity fanatics don't know anything about history. For thousands of years, a woman's virginity was used by her family to secure political/financial connections. Marriage was rarely about love or affection and more about aligning your family with theirs for the best advantages you could get. The idea of sex purely for fun or as a sign of affection for your spouse is a recent one.

Birth control firmly places a woman's body and her sexuality in her hands, not anyone else's. She can make her own decisions. That's too much of a threat for some folks, I guess.

Exactly, they act as if the status quo of the past was something that women actually chose and didn't have imposed upon them. They seem to have no understanding that coerced virtue isn't virtue at all. There is no such thing as good or evil if you don't really have a choice to be either. Someone should tell this dumbasses that that's why God created free will.

218 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:49:59pm

self-hating conservative women! Gotta love that

Woe be to the weak mind who actually reads this superstitious, 12th century tripe and then decides this idiot is correct

219 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:03pm

re: #216 Charles

Here's the advertisement that Kathryn Lopez is so horrified about, that doesn't show the pain and desperation she just knows these women really feel:


[Video]

Look at those women walking around freely, deciding what they want for their futures! Shame on them! The stork is not optional!

220 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:18pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

No, it's one of these rip-off things where they fix you through therapy.

This shit should be illegal. This is selling snake oil and nobody should be able to sell bogus "cures" for anything for a profit. People, especially children should be legally protected from these charlatans.

221 calochortus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:25pm

re: #216 Charles

But, but that commercial is OUTRAGEOUS!!!11!! (Okay, it's sort of dumb, but its an ad, what do we expect?) Those women were shown looking at men as though they were OBJECTS! Comparing them to trips 'n' stuff! Eleventy.

222 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:28pm

re: #209 moderatelyradicalliberal

And what would these new alternatives be? Does this mean that they acknowledge that the old alternatives (celibacy and pretending to be straight) haven't worked so well?

I never looked up their methods. On a related note if you're curious I highly recommend watching Trembling Before G-D on Hulu. Description from Wiki:

Trembling Before G-d is an 2001 American documentary film about gay and lesbian Orthodox Jews trying to reconcile their sexuality with their faith. It was directed by Sandi Simcha DuBowski, an American who wanted to compare orthodox attitudes to homosexuality with his own upbringing as a gay Conservative Jew.

Although not related to JONAH some of the conservative rabbis providing counsel for the central figures of the film touch upon the subject matter.

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:32pm

re: #216 Charles

Here's the advertisement that Kathryn Lopez is so horrified about, that doesn't show the pain and desperation she just knows these women really feel:

[Video]

Well, it's fairly goopy. I do like the helpful stork, though. I'm glad the lady is nice to it when she turns down its offer.

Seriously, what does Lopez want? I'm an American woman on the Pill. I'm married. I've waited longer than I wanted to to have a baby, because I'm being financially responsible, and want to make sure I can raise one well before I launch a family.

What pain and desperation are we talking about here?

224 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:40pm

The stork is kinda weird.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:51:55pm

re: #217 moderatelyradicalliberal

Exactly, they act as if the status quo of the past was something that women actually chose and didn't have imposed upon them. They seem to have no understanding that coerced virtue isn't virtue at all. There is no such thing as good or evil if you don't really have a choice to be either. Someone should tell this dumbasses that that's why God created free will.

YES! THIS!!!

226 calochortus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:52:44pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

What pain and desperation are we talking about here?

The financial pain and desperation of the poor?

227 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:53:20pm

re: #221 calochortus

But, but that commercial is OUTRAGEOUS!!!11!! (Okay, it's sort of dumb, but its an ad, what do we expect?) Those women were shown looking at men as though they were OBJECTS! Comparing them to trips 'n' stuff! Eleventy.


/the dating scene in NYC is not for the timid...

228 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:55:29pm

re: #167 SanFranciscoZionist

it's almost like they're surrealist conservatives, like their position is itself a private joke meant less for policy and more as some kind of dadaesque experiment to see how much of America can be made to believe that they should have zero control over when they have kids

Let's make things so conservative we''re more conservative than the Amish!

No more contraception! No more doctor's visits, unless he comes to your home with the black bag! And he must be male, and look kinda like Leslie Nielsen!

Hell, screw modern medicine! Let's bust out the humors! Phrenology! BEGIN THE EXORCISM

You haven't had 19 children yet? BURN THE WITCH! SHE OWNS A NAOMI WOLF BOOK!!!

229 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:56:51pm

JOBS!

230 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:57:02pm

Proof that the Lybian uprising is a Zionist plot....

Israeli song strikes a chord with Libyan rebels


"Zenga Zenga," a YouTube clip, has gone viral amongst Libyan rebels in the past few days. What many of those opposing Libyan ruler Muammar Gaddafi don't realize is that the video, a mash-up of Gaddafi's speech and the hip-hop song "Hey Baby," is from Israel.
...
The video, which had nearly 400,000 hits on its original version and another 40,000 in the bikini-free version, was created by Israeli musician Noy Alooshe.

Nearly all of the comments on the video are in Arabic, with viewers debating in the talkbacks whether it is permissible to enjoy humor from an Israeli.

231 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:57:48pm

re: #216 Charles

THAT gave K-Lo the vapors? Seriously?

I think it's a great ad. It shows women happily making decisions about what they want to do with their lives. What's so bad about that?

232 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:58:23pm

re: #231 Lidane

THAT gave K-Lo the vapors? Seriously?

I think it's a great ad. It shows women happily making decisions about what they want to do with their lives. What's so bad about that?


See you previous sentence.
;)

233 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:59:04pm

re: #220 moderatelyradicalliberal

This shit should be illegal. This is selling snake oil and nobody should be able to sell bogus "cures" for anything for a profit. People, especially children should be legally protected from these charlatans.

A lot of things that just happened financially to this country should be illegal. A lot of quackery sold in health food stores should be illegal.

but this is America, so they aren't. The freedom to be abused and manipulated by fake therapists with fake credentials and a real desire to ruin lives, that seems to be one we're holding onto. :( The weak are taken advantage of by these hideous people, the smart are strong enough to know it's garbage

234 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 1:59:11pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

Lol

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:00:05pm

re: #229 Varek Raith

JOBS!

I guess standing outside a PP holding a fetus sign, making crazy eyes at everyone

I guess that's a job!

236 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:00:56pm

re: #228 WindUpBird

it's almost like they're surrealist conservatives, like their position is itself a private joke meant less for policy and more as some kind of dadaesque experiment to see how much of America can be made to believe that they should have zero control over when they have kids

Let's make things so conservative we''re more conservative than the Amish!

No more contraception! No more doctor's visits, unless he comes to your home with the black bag! And he must be male, and look kinda like Leslie Nielsen!

Hell, screw modern medicine! Let's bust out the humors! Phrenology! BEGIN THE EXORCISM

You haven't had 19 children yet? BURN THE WITCH! SHE OWNS A NAOMI WOLF BOOK!!!

Speaking of private jokes, I once read all of Leviticus and a I swear that guy was just playing a joke to see how far he could go before somebody asked "Are you sure about all of this?".

237 Lidane  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:01:11pm

re: #232 Varek Raith

See you previous sentence.
;)

Heh, true.

I have never been able to align myself with conservatism because of this kind of shit. If you claim to be all about personal responsibility and individual rights, then shouldn't advocating for birth control be a part of that? Birth control enables women to take personal responsibility for their body and their sexuality and to avoid pregnancy if they are not ready or willing to be a parent. You'd think women like K-Lo would be applauding The Pill rather than attacking it.

238 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:01:31pm

The recent conservative populism almost makes one nostalgic for some Romoney style real elitism. I mean this is populism where it's a bad thing to be a Harvard grad, a professor of constitutional law, and live on the east coast or a big city.

239 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:01:43pm

re: #236 moderatelyradicalliberal

Speaking of private jokes, I once read all of Leviticus and a I swear that guy was just playing a joke to see how far he could go before somebody asked "Are you sure about all of this?".

ahahahaha totally


"This Leviticus is turning out great, but it needs more squid monsters and raining blood"

240 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:02:39pm

re: #238 HappyWarrior

The recent conservative populism almost makes one nostalgic for some Romoney style real elitism. I mean this is populism where it's a bad thing to be a Harvard grad, a professor of constitutional law, and live on the east coast or a big city.

Well, when they represent stupid people, their goal is to convince stupid people that it's actually good to be stupid!


Quite simple, really! :D

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:02:53pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

ahahahaha totally

"This Leviticus is turning out great, but it needs more squid monsters and raining blood"

Leviticus is lacking in the squid monsters. I admit this.

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:03:16pm

OT--can anyone have a Daily Kos diary? What do you need to do?

243 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:03:43pm

re: #240 WindUpBird

Well, when they represent stupid people, their goal is to convince stupid people that it's actually good to be stupid!

Quite simple, really! :D

that is profound...

244 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:04:02pm

re: #240 WindUpBird

Well, when they represent stupid people, their goal is to convince stupid people that it's actually good to be stupid!

Quite simple, really! :D

Ha, true. It's just an interesting change from the more WASPiness the movement had in the past. It's gone from Wharton's Age of Innocence in style to They Took My Jerb. And there I had Edith Wharton and South Park in the same sentence, I am awesome.

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:04:11pm

I really like the lady in Madison whose sign says "Kill the bill with kindness".

246 Simply Sarah  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:04:24pm

re: #237 Lidane

Heh, true.

I have never been able to align myself with conservatism because of this kind of shit. If you claim to be all about personal responsibility and individual rights, then shouldn't advocating for birth control be a part of that? Birth control enables women to take personal responsibility for their body and their sexuality and to avoid pregnancy if they are not ready or willing to be a parent. You'd think women like K-Lo would be applauding The Pill rather than attacking it.

No, no. In the minds of anti-contraception people, the Pill takes away personal responsibility because it allows for the ability to have sex without the 'responsibility' of getting pregnant. Since, to them, the only point of sex is to reproduce, you're avoiding responsibility.

247 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:05:15pm

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

OT--can anyone have a Daily Kos diary? What do you need to do?

I think you just have to register. There used to be a waiting period of a week or two before you can post a diary. I don't know what the rules are these days.

248 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:05:21pm

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:05:59pm

re: #248 ozbloke

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

I'm still not setting foot in that weird place

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:06:29pm

re: #248 ozbloke

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

It's the Weekly World News, so I don't know about satire, but I doubt Zuckerberg would have given them the scoop.

251 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:06:40pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

Leviticus is lacking in the squid monsters. I admit this.

my favorite Leviticus thing is the bit about MOLTEN GODS

I know what it means, but those words together are just awesome

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:06:44pm

re: #249 WindUpBird

I'm still not setting foot in that weird place

I find it extremely helpful.

253 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:06:46pm

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

OT--can anyone have a Daily Kos diary? What do you need to do?

Just register an account and you can write one after that. I signed up and wrote a dairy the same day. I wrote it to console the then candidate Barack Obama supporters who didn't know they knew so many racists until he ran for president. The poor kids were truly distraught. Oh, and read the rules for dairy content or the dairy police will get you.

254 sod  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:07:01pm

Woot! Charles is listening to The Streets! That makes two people I know that like them (including me).

255 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:07:01pm

re: #248 ozbloke

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

if you go to those sites... you get what you get.

256 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:07:19pm

Snopes says no

I have not ever seen that source before, sorry for posting crap...

257 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:07:31pm

re: #248 ozbloke

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

yeah, the weekly world news is old school american tabloid gibberish, crazier than alex jones and much more fun

I have one of their t-shirts, where it was claimed they found "Satan's Skull" and they found it in New Mexico

258 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:07:41pm

re: #255 brookly red

if you go to those sites... you get what you get.

I got a shirt!

259 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:07:51pm

re: #248 ozbloke

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

The also have an exclusive expose on Skunk Ape

260 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:08:21pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

I find it extremely helpful.

Yeah, I do too. But I am grateful that my parents are tech dinosaurs and will never have a facebook account. It was hard enough teaching my Dad how to put CDs in and convert them to MP3.

261 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:08:31pm

re: #256 ozbloke

Snopes says no

I have not ever seen that source before, sorry for posting crap...

it's not crap! It's AMAZING

262 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:08:45pm

re: #259 Killgore Trout

The also have an exclusive expose on Skunk Ape

Where was the ape in that picture?

263 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:09:31pm

re: #260 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I do too. But I am grateful that my parents are tech dinosaurs and will never have a facebook account. It was hard enough teaching my Dad how to put CDs in and convert them to MP3.

I am a tech wizard (okay, not a wizard, a minor imp) and I won't set foot on Facebook *_* Takes up too much time, people I don't want to bug me will find me and bug me, bleah

264 Usually refered to as anyways  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:09:50pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

it's not crap! It's AMAZING

Classic, thanks, I'm going to hang my head in shame now.

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:10:44pm

re: #264 ozbloke

Classic, thanks, I'm going to hang my head in shame now.

it's cool! The WWn is the sort of thing you only saw in checkout stands in grocery stores in America, and I think even then many years ago

266 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:10:58pm

re: #261 WindUpBird

it's not crap! It's AMAZING

What a stunning expose on Dick Cheney. All long, I thought he was really Lionel Barrymore playing Mr. Potter transported to the present day. And Bigfoot's weight loss story is an inspiration to us all.

267 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:11:18pm

re: #251 WindUpBird

my favorite Leviticus thing is the bit about MOLTEN GODS

I know what it means, but those words together are just awesome

Interestingly, Leviticus clearly states that the wealthy are required to sacrifice more expensive animals as sin-offerings, and the poor are given less expensive options.

I have yet to see this held up by a so-con as an argument for progressive taxation.

268 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:11:35pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

it's cool! The WWn is the sort of thing you only saw in checkout stands in grocery stores in America, and I think even then many years ago

their still there...

269 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:11:40pm

re: #248 ozbloke

Anyone seen this?

FACEBOOK WILL END ON MARCH 15th!

Is that suppose to be satire?

Lol.
It's bull.
;)

270 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:12:17pm

re: #267 SanFranciscoZionist

Interestingly, Leviticus clearly states that the wealthy are required to sacrifice more expensive animals as sin-offerings, and the poor are given less expensive options.

I have yet to see this held up by a so-con as an argument for progressive taxation.

Hmmm Mike Tyson sacrificing his tiger.

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:12:34pm

re: #268 brookly red

their still there...

I think they stopped the paper version. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:13:20pm

re: #270 HappyWarrior

Hmmm Mike Tyson sacrificing his tiger.

Tigers are not an appropriate offering.

I would, however, approve of Mike Tyson taking on the tiger in a cage match. I would be rooting for the tiger.

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:13:40pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

I think they stopped the paper version. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

I haven't seen the paper edition in years

274 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:13:53pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

I think they stopped the paper version. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.

/I just wanted to use their & there in the same sentence...

275 wrenchwench  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:14:30pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

Tigers are not an appropriate offering.

I would, however, approve of Mike Tyson taking on the tiger in a cage match. I would be rooting for the tiger.

I could go along with that, up to (and including) the moment Tyson loses an ear.

276 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:14:32pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

Tigers are not an appropriate offering.

I would, however, approve of Mike Tyson taking on the tiger in a cage match. I would be rooting for the tiger.

You want the poor tiger to get mauled!?! For goodness sake, they are already endangered.

/

277 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:14:43pm

re: #268 brookly red

their still there...

Maybe in NY, but where I shop it's been ages since they've sold it in stores

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:14:48pm

"Please do not shoosh me. Librarians will not be silenced!"

Great signs.

279 HappyWarrior  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:15:25pm

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

Tigers are not an appropriate offering.

I would, however, approve of Mike Tyson taking on the tiger in a cage match. I would be rooting for the tiger.

Well shit, I dunno. It is interesting though how the fundamentalists never talk about that part. I guess there are some parts of the bible that even they can't see fit to apply to the modern day. One of my favorite Simpsons bits is when Flanders is calling Lovejoy for help. "I think I am coveting my own wife."

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:16:26pm

re: #275 wrenchwench

I could go along with that, up to (and including) the moment Tyson loses an ear.

"What about my kids? Their dad has an ear that looks like a damn doberman's!"

(Holyfield was a lot more restrained than I would have been about the whole thing. Then again, I would never get into the ring with Tyson--or, actually, in the same room with him, so there's that.)

281 dragonfire1981  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:17:19pm

Here's what gets me. These people seem to pretend that all the abortions, single parent families, marital infidelities and what have you are solely the fault of women somehow.

I know a lot more single mothers out there raising kids than I do single fathers. I know women walk out on kids too but I'm reasonably certain it's more common for a male to do it.

Pregnancy, marriage, raising kids. These all involve TWO people. Why shouldn't men be addressed with regards to these issues too? Just because we can't physically have kids? Are these people stupid enough to believe that because men can't get pregnant it's ok for us to be promiscuous because we'll never have to sacrifice a human life as a result?

Name me one thing, ONE thing the GOP/Tea Party has said or done addressing the sexual behaviors of males in a similar context. You can't because they haven't.

Speaking as a Christian here, I don't care if people have sex outside of marriage or have abortions, that's their right to do it. I might have a moral disagreement with them but that doesn't mean I consider them demons or something. I have always been taught that one of the greatest gifts God gave us (for those who believe in God) is the power to choose. Free will.

Why a Christian of all people would want to take that away just baffles me.

282 Gus  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:18:18pm

Need a nap. BBL

283 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:19:02pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

"What about my kids? Their dad has an ear that looks like a damn doberman's!"

(Holyfield was a lot more restrained than I would have been about the whole thing. Then again, I would never get into the ring with Tyson--or, actually, in the same room with him, so there's that.)

I was once at a buffet with him... I was afraid.

284 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:20:08pm

re: #279 HappyWarrior

Well shit, I dunno. It is interesting though how the fundamentalists never talk about that part. I guess there are some parts of the bible that even they can't see fit to apply to the modern day. One of my favorite Simpsons bits is when Flanders is calling Lovejoy for help. "I think I am coveting my own wife."

Hallmark should put that on an anniversary card...

285 JRCMYP  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:21:16pm

The real problem for Lopez isn't contraception. It's that we don't have a pill that makes women fertile *every single day* so that they never miss the chance to conceive during sex. The real problem is that you might get one over on mother nature if you aren't ovulating.

286 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:21:54pm

re: #277 WindUpBird

Maybe in NY, but where I shop it's been ages since they've sold it in stores

re Wiki: The tabloid has struggled with declining circulation figures due to competition from glossy tabloid publications. As of 2010, The National Enquirer sells for $3.49 on newsstands in the United States. Subscription rates are $1.90 per issue for 52 issues, and $2.40 for 26.

287 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:29:11pm

re: #286 brookly red

re Wiki: The tabloid has struggled with declining circulation figures due to competition from glossy tabloid publications. As of 2010, The National Enquirer sells for $3.49 on newsstands in the United States. Subscription rates are $1.90 per issue for 52 issues, and $2.40 for 26.

please tell me I didn't kill the thread...

288 brookly red  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:33:31pm

re: #287 brookly red

please tell me I didn't kill the thread...

maybe if I pump on it's chest a bit...

289 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:34:15pm
290 Kid A  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:40:20pm

re: #259 Killgore Trout

The also have an exclusive expose on Skunk Ape

I just posted this link on my wall. I can not WAIT for the reactions from people that use facebook as an outlet to broadcast their every waking move to the "world."

291 palomino  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:47:52pm

re: #192 brookly red

I don't think for a moment even he believes he can win, but I don't think anyone would disagree that he can influence the conversation, and that I think is the intention.

What does Newt bring to the table to "influence the conversation"? Theories of Obama's Kenyanism and hyperbole about the "gay secular fascism destroying America?" The conversation will be far to the right and filled with ODS whether Newt is there or not.

Someone with Newt's oversized ego probably can't be objectively realistic about his own chances. He probably sees this as a win-win. Maybe he gets the nod in a weak field; if not, he at least gets the kind of publicity he hasn't had since 1998.

292 Tigger2005  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 2:58:56pm

re: #51 Obdicut

The hypocrisy there is gigantic. It's a program that reduces infant mortality. It is also, therefore, a program that reduces stillbirths and spontaneous abortions, since the risk factors for infant mortality and low birth rate are pretty much the same.

So they want to outlaw rational abortion, but are fine with an increase in infant mortality and spontaneous abortions.

It's not hypocrisy in their minds, because for them infant mortality and spontaneous abortions are "God's will."

293 JRCMYP  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 3:15:22pm

re: #292 Tigger2005

You are exactly right.

294 theheat  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 4:06:01pm
Kathryn Lopez, letting you know that the world was much better when women knew their place — barefoot, pregnant, and subservient to men: Contraception is Not the Solution.

Sure, just look at Africa. That's worked out pretty well. Nothing makes God happier than starving children, churned out like widgets, with all the planning and future of stray dogs running the streets. I bet those women feel completely fulfilled as their starving bloated babies draw their last breaths. But - hey - it isn't like they can't keep making more when the last one or two or three die. One hates to speculate how contraception may have changed the landscape there, or perhaps India, being it's such a cruel and empty alternative.

No, the world needs to be filled to the brim with babies, just like guppies. Or rabbits. Or really humpy horny howly cats. Food, space, resources - that's in God's hands. Because God likes babies. And He loves sperm.
//

The fundie mindset isn't just completely detached from reality, or simply cruel, its global impact is dangerous, and shits on every other human and living organism on the planet.

295 washsox  Sun, Feb 27, 2011 11:16:55pm

I thought right wingers like Miss Lopez were for 'freedom and prosperity'. At least that's what they seem to preach all the time. Yet it seems Miss Lopez and her ilk want to take this country back to the 18th - 19th century all the time. Preaching the neocon gospel - 'Do as we say, not as we do...'

296 Ming  Mon, Feb 28, 2011 10:56:47am

If someone thinks abortion is murder, they should welcome contraception, because contraception prevents murder (abortion). No embryo, no murder. I understand how people can disagree about abortion; I'm conflicted about it myself, although I'm definitely pro-choice in regard to the first few months of a pregnancy. But why would anyone be against contraception, especially if they're truly against abortion?

297 DrBoobooday  Mon, Feb 28, 2011 2:33:04pm

She is just another conservative trying to shrink government. So it is small enough to fit in a uterus.


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