Libyan Fighting Intensifies, US Warships in Suez Canal

Civil war
Middle East • Views: 31,566

In the latest news from Libya, fierce fighting is being reported in strategic cities and towns such as the oil export terminal of Brega, as pro-Gaddafi forces try to retake areas seized by rebels.

Gaddafi swore today that he would never surrender:

“We put our fingers in the eyes of those who doubt that Libya is ruled by anyone other than its people,” he said as delegates chanted “God, Muammar, Libya, only.”

“We will enter a bloody war and thousands and thousands of Libyans will die if the United States enters or NATO enters,” Gaddafi added as I and other journalists sat on the floor just 10 m (yards) away from the man who has ruled Libya for 40 years.

And the US has sent two warships through the Suez Canal toward Libya…

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42 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:07:12pm

I am perplexed about the news that they now want to pursue Gaddafi for his role in the Lockerbee bombings.

On one hand, it is entirely unlikely that the plot was carried out without his knowledge or approval, but on the other hand, I find the timing of this move rather cynical and self-serving in light of the way we dealt with the trial of the actual bombers and the arrangements we made with Ghadafi over it...

2 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:09:18pm
It said the amphibious assault ships USS Kearsarge and USS Ponce entered the canal earlier in the day from the Red Sea, quoting Egyptian officials. The officials said the USS Kearsarge is carrying 42 helicopters.
3 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:10:36pm

Image: SHIP_LHD-3_USS_Kearsarge_lg.jpg

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:16:07pm

re: #3 Varek Raith

I put up a new page you might be interested in. As to Libya, this will get dicey. I hope we stay out of it.

5 Kragar  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:19:09pm

re: #4 LudwigVanQuixote

I put up a new page you might be interested in. As to Libya, this will get dicey. I hope we stay out of it.

The rebels for the most part say they want to do this without any foreign intervention of troops.

6 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:20:24pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The rebels for the most part say they want to do this without any foreign intervention of troops.

The U.S. wouldn't have won against the Brits in 1781 without help from France.

7 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:20:29pm

re: #3 Varek Raith

Image: SHIP_LHD-3_USS_Kearsarge_lg.jpg

That's the kind of ship you use for humanitarian aid.

8 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:23:09pm

OMG! Obama is using force to impose the leftist-Islamist New world Order!

9 Kragar  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:23:14pm

re: #6 Alouette

The U.S. wouldn't have won against the Brits in 1781 without help from France.

The reports I've seen is that they would be willing to accept aid and supplies but not troops.

10 Kragar  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:23:43pm

re: #7 Varek Raith

That's the kind of ship you use for humanitarian aid.

And amphibious assaults...

11 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:24:50pm

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And amphibious assaults...

Which we ain't gonna do in this case.
;)

12 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:26:03pm

U.S. contemplates options as Libyan unrest continues
Excerpt:

Former State Department Middle East official Joel Rubin, now with the progressive National Security Network, says the real question for the United States is defining an end goal.

"On the practical level, defining the goal is essential," Rubin said. "If we have learned anything from our recent experience of military adventures in the Arab world, it is that we have to have a clear and compelling goal that is achievable. And in the case of Libya, there are two goals … the first is humanitarian protection, and the second is removing Gaddafi." Rubin said that a no-fly zone is the option that analysts are discussing most frequently on the humanitarian front.

I hope we're learning from our recent experiences, but I seriously doubt it.

13 Kragar  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:26:18pm

Libyan rebels said to repulse mercenary attack

As council members in Benghazi left a meeting on Tuesday evening, Ali Abubaker, 40, a trader, said it would take "big pressure" to remove Colonel Gaddhafi . "We don't want to be in the situation where the people are turning against one another," he said, warning of the threat of civil war. "We'd like the honor of the Libyan people doing it themselves. But perhaps we need help."

Others strongly disagreed.

"No foreign intervention in Libya," said Essam al-Tawargi, an engineer. "With our guns, with our potential, we can bring Gaddhafi down."

That conviction was tested on Tuesday in Nalut, a city on the Tunisian border that the rebels said they now controlled, in part because local army units refused to fight them. "They said we cannot and we will not kill you because we are all Libyan," a rebel who gave his name only as Ayman said in a telephone interview.

He said that soldiers working for Colonel Gaddhafi still controlled the border but could not enter the city and that defectors from local army units had helped residents arm themselves. "At first we didn't have weapons, so we didn't use them," Ayman said. "But in this war we need weapons, so we get weapons from our soldiers in our army -- they have given them to us."

He said that the people in the mountain region near Nalut rose in rebellion after hearing reports of massacres in Benghazi. "They are my brothers," he said, "so of course I will fight for them."

He said the rebels in the mountains would march on Tripoli "when all of our region is free."

Rebels also said they continued to hold Zawiyah, an oil port just 30 miles from the capital, after fighting off an assault by Colonel Gaddhafi 's forces on Monday night.

14 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:26:46pm

re: #6 Alouette

The U.S. wouldn't have won against the Brits in 1781 without help from France.

We sought out the help of the French, they didn't barge in and declare that they were fighting our stead.

At this point, we should be hesitant to even consider doing more than providing aid and comfort to those who have been touched by this conflict. We have no way of knowing how this will shake out, and taking a side now may mean the difference between a friendly, democratic Libya and a theocratic hellhole.

15 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:27:11pm

Rebels also said they continued to hold Zawiyah, an oil port just 30 miles from the capital, after fighting off an assault by Colonel Gaddhafi 's forces on Monday night.

All those years in power and the poor guy never made General.//

16 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:27:54pm

re: #2 Varek Raith

A long tradition behind the name USS Kearsarge.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

17 Amory Blaine  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:29:07pm

Maybe we can pay for a war with Libya with tax cuts for the rich.

18 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:30:02pm

these freedom fighters are hard core tough guys who seem totally committed....I'm betting on them to depose Mo on their own

19 BishopX  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:30:10pm

I'd put money on the fact that we have people on the ground in Libya right now. I doubt we're engaging Qadaffi, but I would be really surprised if we didn't have people watching the chemical weapons depot and possibly providing communications and intel to rebel forces.

20 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:30:51pm

The idea of using a threat of force against Khadafi is that you must make it credible. Bringing in key elements from the US Navy make that threat credible, but diplomats and other key government officials are dismissing the idea of using military force to send Khadafi packing.

Rather, these ships are being positioned in case they're needed for the ensuing humanitarian crisis that is all but likely to occur in the aftermath of what I think we can safely call an insurrection, if not a civil war.

Taking military action would simply feed into Khadafi's paranoia and claims that this was all part of a US/al Qaeda conspiracy to go after him and Libya's oil (yes, wrap your head around that combination when you think about what Khadafi's said over the past week about who was behind the uprising and who benefits, etc.). It might even garner sympathy from those who would otherwise love to see Khadafi expelled from this mortal coil.

I further think that the ships are positioned so that if Khadafi and his loyalists open fire on humanitarian relief flights (removing foreign citizens and the like), that the US (under UN authority) could respond to defend those relief efforts.

21 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:31:42pm

First Barbary War

This is a good read about the Barbary Pirates.

Jefferson's War: America's First War on Terror 1801-1805

22 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:35:31pm

re: #20 lawhawk

It's not just Gaddafi, it's all the other tin dictators who right now are facing their own growing protests as they watch Libya, their own paranoia telling them that this isn't a result of their "benevolent" rule, but a plot hatched by those evil bastards in the West, but most especially the US. We give the impression that we're in any way supporting these rebels in Libya, that gives them the propaganda they need to assert that what's happening there is not a result of the people rising up on their own, it's just another plot cooked up by the US to assert it's global rule, another CIA operation designed to toss out an anti-US dictator and install a US-friendly one.

23 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:36:19pm

re: #1 ralphieboy

I am perplexed about the news that they now want to pursue Gaddafi for his role in the Lockerbee bombings.

On one hand, it is entirely unlikely that the plot was carried out without his knowledge or approval, but on the other hand, I find the timing of this move rather cynical and self-serving in light of the way we dealt with the trial of the actual bombers and the arrangements we made with Ghadafi over it...

kinda like how Switzerland suddenly froze his assets. like they haven't known for years/decades that he's a criminal and sleazebag.

24 garhighway  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:36:44pm

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not just Gaddafi, it's all the other tin dictators who right now are facing their own growing protests as they watch Libya, their own paranoia telling them that this isn't a result of their "benevolent" rule, but a plot hatched by those evil bastards in the West, but most especially the US. We give the impression that we're in any way supporting these rebels in Libya, that gives them the propaganda they need to assert that what's happening there is not a result of the people rising up on their own, it's just another plot cooked up by the US to assert it's global rule, another CIA operation designed to toss out an anti-US dictator and install a US-friendly one.

They'll accuse us of that either way.

We're handy.

25 Kragar  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:37:42pm

re: #21 rwdflynavy

First Barbary War

This is a good read about the Barbary Pirates.

Jefferson's War: America's First War on Terror 1801-1805

See also the Battle of Derne

The Battle of Derne was the first recorded land battle of the United States on foreign soil after the American Revolutionary War.[4] The battle was the decisive action of the First Barbary War, although Eaton was angered by what he called a 'sell-out' between Consul Lear and the bey. Hamet returned to Egypt and the mercenaries were never fully paid.

26 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:38:20pm

re: #24 garhighway

They'll accuse us of that either way.

We're handy.

We are, which is all the more reason not to give them plenty of "proof." Humanitarian aid is one thing, hard to do more than come up with conspiracy theories about how we're "poisoning babies" or "demanding loyalty for treatment." But we start giving weapons to the rebels or even putting boots on the ground to fight alongside them? Those conspiracy theories quickly take on a life of their own.

27 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:39:22pm

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not just Gaddafi, it's all the other tin dictators who right now are facing their own growing protests as they watch Libya, their own paranoia telling them that this isn't a result of their "benevolent" rule, but a plot hatched by those evil bastards in the West, but most especially the US. We give the impression that we're in any way supporting these rebels in Libya, that gives them the propaganda they need to assert that what's happening there is not a result of the people rising up on their own, it's just another plot cooked up by the US to assert it's global rule, another CIA operation designed to toss out an anti-US dictator and install a US-friendly one.

Close, it's the JOOOOS!!!///

Yemen's President Blames US, Israel for Arab Unrest

28 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:40:43pm

re: #22 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not just Gaddafi, it's all the other tin dictators who right now are facing their own growing protests as they watch Libya, their own paranoia telling them that this isn't a result of their "benevolent" rule, but a plot hatched by those evil bastards in the West, but most especially the US. We give the impression that we're in any way supporting these rebels in Libya, that gives them the propaganda they need to assert that what's happening there is not a result of the people rising up on their own, it's just another plot cooked up by the US to assert it's global rule, another CIA operation designed to toss out an anti-US dictator and install a US-friendly one.

And if we did nothing and let him commit genocide of his own people, which he surely will do, what will they say about us then?

It's lonely being the world's super power.

29 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:41:31pm

re: #27 rwdflynavy

Close, it's the JOOOS!!!///

Yemen's President Blames US, Israel for Arab Unrest

While he's actually fighting against hard-core Islamists.

30 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:42:53pm

re: #27 rwdflynavy

Close, it's the JOOOS!!!///

Yemen's President Blames US, Israel for Arab Unrest

*Thanks for the cover*
MUHAHAHA!

31 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:44:44pm

re: #28 marjoriemoon

And if we did nothing and let him commit genocide of his own people, which he surely will do, what will they say about us then?

It's lonely being the world's super power.

Nothing they weren't already saying about us after Darfur or Rwanda. It sucks, but true, we don't exactly have a great track history when it comes to stopping genocide.

32 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:44:52pm

re: #28 marjoriemoon

The Italians and French are right there. They can reach Libya from bases inside their borders. Let them handle any military intervention that might be required.

This is not, and should not be, our fight.

33 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:48:12pm

re: #23 funky chicken

kinda like how Switzerland suddenly froze his assets. like they haven't known for years/decades that he's a criminal and sleazebag.


And where does Europe get most of its oil from?

34 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:49:40pm

re: #31 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Nothing they weren't already saying about us after Darfur or Rwanda. It sucks, but true, we don't exactly have a great track history when it comes to stopping genocide.

That's not really what I meant tho. Doing nothing is not an option. We have to stop him or at least make an attempt to do so. "They" will always think the worst of us, until they need us. (Yemen comes to mind).

Too often we sat on the sidelines while millions have died. I know this is really an unpopular opinion, but I still believe it's true.

35 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:50:07pm

ArabRevolution تباً لكم ياطواغيت
by oxfordgirl

Why do I have a feeling that the American media machine is drumming up a #Libya invasion? Please tell me I am paranoid. #Feb17

36 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:50:30pm

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to throwing a little assistance their way in the form of air power, but putting American troops on the ground in Libya would be a horrible idea, imo.

37 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:51:35pm

re: #34 marjoriemoon

That's not really what I meant tho. Doing nothing is not an option. We have to stop him or at least make an attempt to do so. "They" will always think the worst of us, until they need us. (Yemen comes to mind).

Too often we sat on the sidelines while millions have died. I know this is really an unpopular opinion, but I still believe it's true.

Providing humanitarian aid is a good option, as is establishing a no-fly-zone with international help. But you put troops on the ground and pick a side, you have lost any sight of this being about the Libyan people. It ceases being their war and starts being our war.

38 albusteve  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:53:32pm

re: #36 Fozzie Bear

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to throwing a little assistance their way in the form of air power, but putting American troops on the ground in Libya would be a horrible idea, imo.

black ops....tune up the IDF gear and disallow any military aircraft to reach cruising speed...unless a defection is in progress of course....simply take them down and deny any accusations

39 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:56:43pm

re: #36 Fozzie Bear

I wouldn't be entirely opposed to throwing a little assistance their way in the form of air power, but putting American troops on the ground in Libya would be a horrible idea, imo.

I agree with that.

40 garhighway  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:58:45pm

Where are the "we need to depose Saddam because he's evil" folks, anyway? They should be all over this. Libya even has oil! The occupation will pay for itself!

"Regime change!!!"

/

41 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 12:59:31pm

re: #37 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Providing humanitarian aid is a good option, as is establishing a no-fly-zone with international help. But you put troops on the ground and pick a side, you have lost any sight of this being about the Libyan people. It ceases being their war and starts being our war.

But the no-fly zone is usually seen as the first step in military intervention. I do agree that we shouldn't send in ground troops.

There is good reason to believe that Ghadafi will carry out his threats. He really is just that crazy and his response to the protests was the most violent that we've seen yet.

42 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 2, 2011 1:11:44pm

Khadafi's pal Farrakhan says that Jews are pushing the US into a war in Libya.

Right. Let's just ignore that it was the Libyans who rose up to protest the regime. It was Libyans who revolted against the regime and stood united against Khadafi when Khadafi unleashed his mercenaries and military (which later defected in large numbers to the very opposition). It is Libyans who are dying for their rights and freedoms.

Anti Semitism is the refuge of scoundrels and scum. No surprise that Farrakhan is still at it.


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