James O'Keefe Goes After Another Right Wing Target: NPR

James O’Keefe Goes After Another Right Wing Target: NPR

Another sting video against another demonized right wing target

WingnutsMarch 2011 • Views: 32,940

ACORN sting film editor and admitted felon James O’Keefe is at it again, with a video that catches an NPR fundraiser, Ron Schiller (who has left NPR already), in the act of telling the truth. Notice that this time, O’Keefe’s actors posed as scary Muslims, of course; his pattern of race-baiting and bigotry couldn’t be any more clear: NPR Executives Caught On Video.

Here’s the section that has the right wing blogosphere shrieking the loudest:

Schiller: The current Republican Party, particularly the Tea Party, is fanatically involved in people’s personal lives and very fundamental Christian — and I wouldn’t even call it Christian. It’s this weird evangelical kind of move… it’s been hijacked by this group that…

Fake Muslim: The radical, racist, Islamophobic, Tea Party people?

Schiller: It’s not just Islamophobic, but really xenophobic. Basically, they believe in white, middle America, gun-toting — it’s pretty scary. They’re seriously racist, racist people.

Wingnuts everywhere are up in arms at the sheer outrageousness of these statements.

Unfortunately for them, Schiller was right on the money. The Tea Party is a xenophobic, regressive, reactionary movement that has done nothing but harm to the American political process, it’s dominated by fundamentalist Christians of the most intolerant kind, and it has a very significant component of unvarnished old-school racism. All true.

But he’s apparently not supposed to say these things in what he thinks is a private fundraising meeting with a potential donor, or the right wing will freak out.

It should be noted that this fundraising meeting wasn’t over a small donation — O’Keefe’s phony Muslims told Schiller they wanted to donate $5 million. It’s ridiculous to expect someone whose job is raising money for NPR to get into a big fight over politics with a $5 million donor.

UPDATE at 3/8/11 11:31:44 am

Is this stunt the same kind of thing as the prank call from “David Koch” to Governor Scott Walker? Both cases involve pretense, it’s true.

But the comparison ends there, because Scott Walker is a very public figure. There’s a significant difference between a prank phone call to a controversial governor and an elaborate, staged attempt to trick a private citizen into saying something that can be used to smear an entire organization — and the latter has been O’Keefe’s modus operandi in all of his sting videos.

UPDATE at 3/9/11 10:00:03 am

Correction: James O’Keefe and his accomplices were originally charged with a felony in the attempt to break into Mary Landrieu’s office and bug her phones, but the charge was reduced to a misdemeanor when they pled guilty.

Jump to bottom

394 comments

Sol Berdinowitz Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:08:04am

I believe the folks at Fox lauded him as the "Future of Investivage Journalism"

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:09:16am

James O'Keefe needs to get a real job. There, I used a right wing criticism of liberals on a right wing dipshit.

Obdicut Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:09:55am

Schiller also thinks it'd be great if NPR didn't have federal funding. Shouldn't conservatives like him?

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:12:16am

And frankly I agree with Charles, what did he say that was incorrect about the TP? They're obsessed with people's personal lives i.e. the fanatical opposition to abortion at every cycle that many of their candidates have and the opposition to not just gay marriage but civil unions as well. And yeah I haven't seen anything that suggests they're not xenophobic. If the GOP doesn't want this label then maybe they shouldn't court these guys.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:15:24am

Charles, I agree with you on TP fully (I was the first to say that Schiller told the truth on this). But what followed was much more problematic. And NPR apologized for everything objectionable Schiller said.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:15:51am

Their entire hatred of Obama is due to xenophobia. they can't stand that the face of america is changing-- HAS changed-- from the all white christian dream utopia. More accurately, that dream utopia never existed in the first place.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:17:20am

Well, of course they're jumping on. When a now former NPR executive makes some true statements are parts of the right, it's proof that NPR is just a leftist mouthpiece!

You know, just like how Beck and the rest of the on-air personalities at Fox News prove it's a legitimate and unbiased news organization.

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:18:18am

re: #6 iceweasel

Their entire hatred of Obama is due to xenophobia. they can't stand that the face of america is changing-- HAS changed-- from the all white christian dream utopia. More accurately, that dream utopia never existed in the first place.

Yep, I think other than Andrew Jackson, Obama is the first child of an immigrant to become president.

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:18:24am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

Charles, I agree with you on TP fully (I was the first to say that Schiller told the truth on this). But what followed was much more problematic. And NPR apologized for everything objectionable Schiller said.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

What people seem to be forgetting, though, is that this was a fundraising meeting. He wasn't there to get in arguments with people. He was courting what he thought was a potential big donor.

Schiller is a professional fundraiser; he had no input into the editorial side of NPR.

Big Steve Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:18:36am

Not to be the magic balance fairy here but....

But he’s apparently not supposed to say these things in what he thinks is a private meeting

Is this not the same as the radio guy who called the Governor of Wisconsin posing as one of the Koch Brothers and taped the conversation?

Jeff In Ohio Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:19:45am

re: #9 Charles

chiller is a professional fundraiser; he had no input into the editorial side of NPR.

Bingo.

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:20:28am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

Charles, I agree with you on TP fully (I was the first to say that Schiller told the truth on this). But what followed was much more problematic. And NPR apologized for everything objectionable Schiller said.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

What part of the video do you find more problematic? The part about being better off w/no federal funding?

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:20:39am

re: #10 Big Steve

Not to be the magic balance fairy here but...

Is this not the same as the radio guy who called the Governor of Wisconsin posing as one of the Koch Brothers and taped the conversation?

No, because one has a job as fundraiser and the other has a job as governor. Those are not supposed to be the same.

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:20:39am

re: #10 Big Steve

Not to be the magic balance fairy here but...

Is this not the same as the radio guy who called the Governor of Wisconsin posing as one of the Koch Brothers and taped the conversation?

No. Scott Walker is a very public figure. I think there's a significant difference between a prank phone call to a controversial governor and an elaborate, staged attempt to trick a private citizen into saying something that can be used to smear an entire group.

In fact, I don't think they're similar at all.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:21:24am

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

Charles, I agree with you on TP fully (I was the first to say that Schiller told the truth on this). But what followed was much more problematic. And NPR apologized for everything objectionable Schiller said.

[Link: www.npr.org...]

Because NPR is scared to death of being labeled as being in the pocket of liberals, especially with the push in Congress to remove what funding they do get (Which is going to be more than the 1-2 percent direct funding, since less money to stations would mean less to pay NPR licensing fees with).

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:21:36am

re: #9 Charles

What people seem to be forgetting, though, is that this was a fundraising meeting. He wasn't there to get in arguments with people. He was courting what he thought was a potential big donor.

Schiller is a professional fundraiser; he had no input into the editorial side of NPR.

Agreed 100%. I understand why people would be offended by him not objecting to antisemitism from the hoaxers or laughing with them, nodding.

But yes, "he had no editorial input" is the key pat.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:22:22am

To recap:

- NPR recent exec tells the truth: Tea Partiers are xenophobic bigots who want to subjugate women and persecute people who do not conform to their narrow religious views

- WI governor tells the truth: he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment

Don't see what all the fuss is about, myself.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:22:26am

re: #16 Sergey Romanov

(Then again, I also understand people who watch the process of sausage-making from start to finish.)

Jeff In Ohio Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:22:55am

Now if Shiller has said those things in public and about muslims or the president, he might be able to run for president under the GOP banner.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:23:11am

re: #12 blueraven

What part of the video do you find more problematic? The part about being better off w/no federal funding?

Watch the whole 11 minutes. (OK, there is also a 2 hours version.)

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:23:37am

re: #10 Big Steve

Not to be the magic balance fairy here but...

Is this not the same as the radio guy who called the Governor of Wisconsin posing as one of the Koch Brothers and taped the conversation?

Perhaps in a way, but the Governor is not a fundraiser for an organization. He is the governor, and as such should be representing the people of WI. Not groveling to some special interest.

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:23:43am

re: #16 Sergey Romanov

Agreed 100%. I understand why people would be offended by him not objecting to antisemitism from the hoaxers or laughing with them, nodding.

But yes, "he had no editorial input" is the key pat.

Actually, he did object to the statements about "Zionism" later in the video.

But again - his job wasn't to make a stand for anyone's opinions. It was to raise money. You don't raise money by getting in arguments with donors.

Political Atheist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:24:07am

From listening to NPR lately, they have editorially moved more centrist since Obama took office. Less to object to even if you lean right. Far enough to the middle a Dem friend called them Not Properly Liberal (enough). His words, not mine. This after they gave interview time to the Wisconsin gov.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:25:04am

re: #18 Sergey Romanov

(Then again, I also understand people who watch the process of sausage-making from start to finish.)

Duh. "who are offended by watching"

Jeff In Ohio Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:25:27am

Speaking of Teatard's With Video's, anybody catch the Susie B Anthony List's president on NPR yesterday going on about defunding Planned Parenthood and whining no one takes the stripper Lila Rose seriously?

Painful.

bubba zanetti Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:25:52am

What we he supposed to do? Jump across the table in a restaurant and punch the guy in the nose, exclaiming "Take that, Jew-hater!"

cineaste Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:26:13am

I've never seen a group more paranoid about criticism than the far right. They stomp their feet and cry anytime anyone says anything vaguely negative about them yet they happily tune in in droves to radio & TV that sews the wildest, most ill-informed insidious accusations about the left's ideologies, motivations, and intentions.

They seriously need to grow a thicker skin.

Also, they need to learn irony. Humor is so much more powerful than impotent rage. To whit: Jon Stewart.

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:27:54am

The fact O'Keefe is still seen as a credible person to the right is really telling. The dude will do anything to smear organizations that he doesn't like. Gee just like Andrew Breitbart.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:28:13am

re: #23 Rightwingconspirator

From listening to NPR lately, they have editorially moved more centrist since Obama took office. Less to object to even if you lean right. Far enough to the middle a Dem friend called them Not Properly Liberal (enough). His words, not mine. This after they gave interview time to the Wisconsin gov.

Well, I often get frustrated with NPR (Well, Morning/Weekend Edition and All Things Considered, at least) for:
- Giving time to only one side of a *clearly* controversial and contested issue, when it's clear that the one person being talked to isn't even trying to be objective.
- Fluffy stories on serious issues, where, at the end, I'm left to sit wondering when I was going to actually hear something useful/descriptive/etc.

Yes, I know this isn't exactly uncommon in news, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hold NPR to higher standards.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:28:35am

re: #26 bubba zanetti

What we he supposed to do? Jump across the table in a restaurant and punch the guy in the nose, exclaiming "Take that, Jew-hater!"

To be fair, Tea Partiers are quick to ostracize the crazy anti-Semites in their midst.

/ron paul

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:29:02am

re: #26 bubba zanetti

What we he supposed to do? Jump across the table in a restaurant and punch the guy in the nose, exclaiming "Take that, Jew-hater!"

If he were just an average guy, he should've walked away. But yes, he was doing his job as a fund-raiser.

cineaste Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:29:15am

re: #22 Charles

Actually, he did object to the statements about "Zionism" later in the video.

But again - his job wasn't to make a stand for anyone's opinions. It was to raise money. You don't raise money by getting in arguments with donors.

And it pales in comparison to the things that Roger Ailes says in public all the time.

I think the wing-nuts' motto should be: "We like our news like we like our religion. Dogmatic and not open to interpretation."

leftynyc Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:31:16am

Since he has already left NPR, there is nothing to stop him from tearing these losers a new asshole. If the worst of what he said is what is posted, I'm not seeing the problem. The teabaggers are fine with anyone calling liberals whatever they want but call them racists and I'm supposed to get outraged? Yawn.

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:31:26am

re: #20 Sergey Romanov

Watch the whole 11 minutes. (OK, there is also a 2 hours version.)

I did watch the 11 min video. He said some things that may seem awkward, but nothing that far out. I did not watch the whole 2 hr video so I am not sure if he was actually laughing at certain points in the conversation or had a strange reaction about something or not.

The way they edit the video makes a big difference. Have you watched the unedited video?

cineaste Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:31:48am

re: #29 Simply Sarah

Well, I often get frustrated with NPR (Well, Morning/Weekend Edition and All Things Considered, at least) for:
- Giving time to only one side of a *clearly* controversial and contested issue, when it's clear that the one person being talked to isn't even trying to be objective.
- Fluffy stories on serious issues, where, at the end, I'm left to sit wondering when I was going to actually hear something useful/descriptive/etc.

Yes, I know this isn't exactly uncommon in news, but that doesn't mean I don't want to hold NPR to higher standards.

seriously? You think NPR's reporting is on par with broadcast? I could not disagree more. They are far, far ahead. Programs like "Planet Money" have been doing some of the best reporting in the country on complicated issues.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:33:08am

re: #35 cineaste

seriously? You think NPR's reporting is on par with broadcast? I could not disagree more. They are far, far ahead. Programs like "Planet Money" have been doing some of the best reporting in the country on complicated issues.

Ah, I apologize if I wasn't clear. What I meant was that I get extra frustrated when NPR does that sort of thing specifically because I expect better from them.

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:33:55am

re: #27 cineaste

I've never seen a group more paranoid about criticism than the far right. They stomp their feet and cry anytime anyone says anything vaguely negative about them yet they happily tune in in droves to radio & TV that sews the wildest, most ill-informed insidious accusations about the left's ideologies, motivations, and intentions.

They seriously need to grow a thicker skin.

Also, they need to learn irony. Humor is so much more powerful than impotent rage. To whit: Jon Stewart.

Right wing attempts at "humor" almost always come off as mean spirited, ugly and somewhat baffling to people who don't understand right wing cant and the assorted inside jokes that True Believers all "get".

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:35:56am

re: #37 celticdragon

Right wing attempts at "humor" almost always come off as mean spirited, ugly and somewhat baffling to people who don't understand right wing cant and the assorted inside jokes that True Believers all "get".

hehe... remember that show on Fox that was supposed to be the right's version of the daily show? It was just awful. What was that called? I can't remember.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:36:06am

re: #34 blueraven

I did watch the 11 min video. He said some things that may seem awkward, but nothing that far out. I did not watch the whole 2 hr video so I am not sure if he was actually laughing at certain points in the conversation or had a strange reaction about something or not.

The way they edit the video makes a big difference. Have you watched the unedited video?

They've got what they see as most objectionable moments in those 11 minutes, during which we see either his non-reaction to extreme statements, like when one of the hoaxers was expressing the satisfaction that Hezbollah and Hamas voices are heard in balance to Israel or was blabbering about "Jewish control", or both NPR officials laughing at "National Palestinian Radio" joke and the woman saying something like "I like it". And again, to repeat, they weren't editors and they were doing a fund-raising job. But it wasn't a pretty sight either, OK?

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:36:46am

re: #31 Sergey Romanov

If he were just an average guy, he should've walked away. But yes, he was doing his job as a fund-raiser.

It's not even that. The unpleasant truth is that, unless you're a hermit, there will always be cases where you have to make snap judgments about whether to call someone out on their bigotry or not, and quite often the correct decision is to ignore it in the hopes of gently correcting it down the road.

A classic example is the word "gay". I am waging a one-man campaign to eliminate its use as a derogatory term, but you can't just say "I object to your homophobia" every time someone comes out with it. On the other hand, once you get to know someone you can then point out that you find that usage offensive (and explain why) without coming across as a self-righteous prick.

The other point to make here is that eventually people obviously lose the benefit of the doubt, but if you're otherwise a person who evidently believes in treating people equally and fairly, you get a hell of a lot more of leeway than if you're proposing SWAT teams to strap pregnant women down to padded beds if they look as if they're walking in a bouncy way to induce a miscarriage.

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:37:09am

re: #37 celticdragon

Right wing attempts at "humor" almost always come off as mean spirited, ugly and somewhat baffling to people who don't understand right wing cant and the assorted inside jokes that True Believers all "get".

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:38:18am

re: #38 recusancy

hehe... remember that show on Fox that was supposed to be the right's version of the daily show? It was just awful. What was that called? I can't remember.

Exactly. When you are basing your "humor" on high octane rage/grievance/religious bigotry then you find it isn't really that humorous in the end. It doesn't work at all.

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:38:29am

re: #38 recusancy

hehe... remember that show on Fox that was supposed to be the right's version of the daily show? It was just awful. What was that called? I can't remember.

The 1/2 Hour News Hour.

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:38:48am

re: #38 recusancy

hehe... remember that show on Fox that was supposed to be the right's version of the daily show? It was just awful. What was that called? I can't remember.

Red Eye?

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:38:54am

re: #43 jamesfirecat

The 1/2 Hour News Hour.

Ahh. That's it.

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:39:02am

re: #17 iossarian

To recap:

- NPR recent exec tells the truth: Tea Partiers are xenophobic bigots who want to subjugate women and persecute people who do not conform to their narrow religious views

- WI governor tells the truth: he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment

Don't see what all the fuss is about, myself.

Sure, except that Walker never actually said the words you put in his mouth, and the NPR guy did...

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:39:07am

re: #38 recusancy

hehe... remember that show on Fox that was supposed to be the right's version of the daily show? It was just awful. What was that called? I can't remember.

The Half Hour News Hour or something like that, wasn't it? I remembered watching the lead-in skit to the first show posted online (With Rush and Coulter) and feeling absolutely befuddled afterward.

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:39:09am

re: #41 iceweasel

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

You need to be able to laugh AT YOURSELF to be a truly great comedian.

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:39:34am

This is every bit as bad as journalists masquerading as combative citizens and going police station to police station trying to be obnoxious enough to get visited with Police abuse while the camera is rolling.

It's not news, it's manufactured news for a manufactured news site, and worse -- it's really a well timed political operation, from a punkass political operative. O'Keefe's every bit as slimy as Nixon's plumbers were.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:39:43am

re: #41 iceweasel

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

I think it's because humor is a way of accepting that we disagree without killing each other.

Interesting Times Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:39:48am

re: #41 iceweasel

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

Because humor, especially of the satirical variety, only works when it pokes fun at the powerFUL as opposed to the powerLESS.

Right-wing "humor", especially of the execrable Limbaugh variety, thrives on attacking the most helpless and vulnerable members of society.

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:40:12am

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

They've got what they see as most objectionable moments in those 11 minutes, during which we see either his non-reaction to extreme statements, like when one of the hoaxers was expressing the satisfaction that Hezbollah and Hamas voices are heard in balance to Israel or was blabbering about "Jewish control", or both NPR officials laughing at "National Palestinian Radio" joke and the woman saying something like "I like it". And again, to repeat, they weren't editors and they were doing a fund-raising job. But it wasn't a pretty sight either, OK?

I am not arguing that it wasn't a pretty sight. I agree. My point is the way they have edited video in the past, was this even a correct sequence in the dialogue?

How many people will listen to the entire 2 hours, and even then, is it edited?

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:40:46am

re: #51 publicityStunted

Because humor, especially of the satirical variety, only works when it pokes fun at the powerFUL as opposed to the powerLESS.

Right-wing "humor", especially of the execrable Limbaugh variety, thrives on attacking the most helpless and vulnerable members of society.

I like all the answers people have given, but I think this is right on the money.

cineaste Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:40:47am

re: #37 celticdragon

Right wing attempts at "humor" almost always come off as mean spirited, ugly and somewhat baffling to people who don't understand right wing cant and the assorted inside jokes that True Believers all "get".

Exhibit A: Red Eye

Obdicut Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:41:00am

re: #46 Buck

Why did Walker take the call from Koch?

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:41:15am

re: #41 iceweasel

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

Judging by the numerous "it was just a joke" excuses, the mainstream right-wing humor is all about murder, rape and forced conversions.

half-/

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:44:41am

re: #46 Buck

Sure, except that Walker never actually said the words you put in his mouth, and the NPR guy did...

Here we go.

Which of the following facts do you dispute:

A) the Koch brothers are mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment

B) The facts that Walker was very keen to take their call, and indeed that he accepts their direct and indirect campaign contributions, illustrate that he is in their employ

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:44:55am

I have no idea if the right-slanted humorous news shows/things took on all sides, so I can't comment on the ability of them to do that, but Stewart, for sure, hasn't been afraid to go after the left when he feels they're being stupid/easy targets.

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:46:38am

re: #41 iceweasel

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

Anger and hate don't work really well as a basis for humor. John Stewart rarely comes across as angry, and he is gracious to guests he disagrees with strongly. That is not an admired or encouraged trait on the Right, since the underlying assunmption is that people you are disagree with are anti-American, dangerous and enemies of everything you love. There is no room for gentle mocking or playful poking.

CS Lewis notes this tendency in this prologue to "The Screwtape Letters" where the denizens of Hell are utterly devoid of irony, and actual humor is a msytery to them. Everything is viewed within the realm of respect, positition and the WAR with the ENEMY.

John Stewart is simply outside of many people's ability to process, since their core assumptions don't allow for actual engagment with the ENEMY.

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:48:57am

re: #57 iossarian

Here we go.

Which of the following facts do you dispute:

A) the Koch brothers are mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment

B) The facts that Walker was very keen to take their call, and indeed that he accepts their direct and indirect campaign contributions, illustrate that he is in their employ

?

You don't know that he was "keen to take their call". Other than the fact that they have business interests in his state, and they gave $43,000 which is a small amount of the total he raised. (as opposed to the $200,000 unions gave his opposition.)

But, please don't let me stop you from making stuff up.

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:48:59am

re: #59 celticdragon

John Stewart is simply outside of many people's ability to process, since their core assumptions don't allow for actual engagment with the ENEMY.

This also explains a lot about the interwebs.

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:49:39am

It should also be noted that this fundraising meeting wasn't over some chump change donation -- O'Keefe's phony Muslims told Schiller they wanted to donate $5 million.

It's kind of ridiculous to expect someone whose job is raising money for NPR to get into a big fight over politics with a $5 million donor.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:50:29am

re: #61 iceweasel

This also explains a lot about the interwebs.

On days I decide that I really hate myself, I read the postings in unmoderated online comment sections. Yahoo! New is normally good for making me hate humanity.

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:51:16am

re: #60 Buck

You don't know that he was "keen to take their call". Other than the fact that they have business interests in his state, and they gave $43,000 which is a small amount of the total he raised. (as opposed to the $200,000 unions gave his opposition.)

But, please don't let me stop you from making stuff up.

Buck, they spent a lot more than that in negative ad campaigns against his opponent.

Citizens United!

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:52:11am

re: #60 Buck

You don't know that he was "keen to take their call". Other than the fact that they have business interests in his state, and they gave $43,000 which is a small amount of the total he raised. (as opposed to the $200,000 unions gave his opposition.)

But, please don't let me stop you from making stuff up.

If he wasn't keen to take the call why did he spend nearly 20 min outlining what was going on, and how he had thought about inserting faux union members into the crowd, and still planned to trick the dems into coming back by negotiating in bad faith?

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:52:53am

re: #60 Buck

You don't know that he was "keen to take their call". Other than the fact that they have business interests in his state, and they gave $43,000 which is a small amount of the total he raised. (as opposed to the $200,000 unions gave his opposition.)

But, please don't let me stop you from making stuff up.

The prank caller originally got through to Walker's Chief of Staff (or similar colleague), who told him that Walker would call him back. Because the guy was using skype to conceal his true identity, he said that wouldn't be possible, but he could call the same number back later. The Chief of Staff said that would be fine, and that they'd put him straight through to Walker.

Ergo: keen to take the call.

$43K was the direct contribution. They also made contributions via various organizations, and through support of the Republican Governors' campaign fund.

In any case, are you really sure you want to be arguing over whether Walker is a 5 or a 10-dollar hooker?

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:52:57am

re: #62 Charles

It should also be noted that this fundraising meeting wasn't over some chump change donation -- O'Keefe's phony Muslims told Schiller they wanted to donate $5 million.

It's kind of ridiculous to expect someone whose job is raising money for NPR to get into a big fight over politics with a $5 million donor.

From my understanding (can't watch the clip here)... a no-strings attached donation. So they're discussing content being somehow anti-Israeli with someone who doesn't control content, and they aren't asking for any control or change in that content.

Sounds like he was just being a Yes-man all the way to the bank, over a matter that would have absolutely no effect on NPR's operations other than having more money to spend.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:54:06am

re: #65 jamesfirecat

If he wasn't keen to take the call why did he spend nearly 20 min outlining what was going on, and how he had thought about inserting faux union members into the crowd, and still planned to trick the dems into coming back by negotiating in bad faith?

He was bored at work.

Taking calls from the Koch brothers is to Republican Governors what posting comments on LGF is to Lizards.

///

jaunte Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:54:41am

re: #66 iossarian

They also made contributions via various organizations, and through support of the Republican Governors' campaign fund.

NYT:

The visitor, Tim Phillips, the president of Americans for Prosperity, told a large group of counterprotesters who had gathered Saturday at one edge of what otherwise was a mostly union crowd that the cuts were not only necessary, but they also represented the start of a much-needed nationwide move to slash public-sector union benefits.
“We are going to bring fiscal sanity back to this great nation,” he said.

What Mr. Phillips did not mention was that his Virginia-based nonprofit group, whose budget surged to $40 million in 2010 from $7 million three years ago, was created and financed in part by the secretive billionaire brothers Charles G. and David H. Koch.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:54:49am

re: #63 Simply Sarah

On days I decide that I really hate myself, I read the postings in unmoderated online comment sections. Yahoo! New is normally good for making me hate humanity.

Any story where an unarmed African American man/pregant woman/elderly grandmother/sleeping home owner has been shot or beaten by the police is a great place to go to see how brazenly hateful people can still be. It is a sort of ungoing Milgram Experiments in sadism.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:55:02am

Do you think GOP will use it as an excuse to defund?

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:55:17am

re: #64 blueraven

Buck, they spent a lot more than that in negative ad campaigns against his opponent.

Citizens United!

As did the unions against him.

Bottom line for me is that people are quite happy to make up stuff and attribute it to Walker.

My point is only that.

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:55:35am

re: #71 Sergey Romanov

Do you think GOP will use it as an excuse to defund?

You have three guess and the first two do not count.

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:55:40am

re: #71 Sergey Romanov

Do you think GOP will use it as an excuse to defund?

Pretty sure thats why O'keefe did this in the first place.

Summer Seale Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:55:50am

For me, it just comes down to the fact that James O'Keefe is an overtly racist, white supremacist, fucking asshole.

All the rest surrounding the details of the story, and trying to relate it to another story involving a certain Governor, is mere quibbling.

James O'Keefe is just another Tim McVeigh lite, and it shows.

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:01am

It's not a coincidence that these sting videos all come out right at the same time as legislation against the very same targets: ACORN, Planned Parenthood, and NPR.

Mickey_being_mickey Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:11am

Enjoy your Tea Party ladies.

Tea Parties - Racism, Anti-Semitism and the Militia Impulse

Who is an American? Tea Parties, Nativism, and the Birthers

Anyone besides me tired of those pedantic Know-Nothings?

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:16am

re: #70 celticdragon

Any story where an unarmed African American man/pregant woman/elderly grandmother/sleeping home owner has been shot or beaten by the police is a great place to go to see how brazenly hateful people can still be. It is a sort of ungoing Milgram Experiments in sadism.

What really shocks me is that sometimes there are actually semi-sane comments that don't have 1000 thumbs-down on them.

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:17am

re: #71 Sergey Romanov

Do you think GOP will use it as an excuse to defund?

Are you kidding? This is prefab manufactured outraged slapped down just for that debate.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:32am

re: #72 Buck

As did the unions against him.

Bottom line for me is that people are quite happy to make up stuff and attribute it to Walker.

My point is only that.

Actual examples of making stuff up please.

You still haven't successfully denied either of my points A or B above.

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:34am

re: #72 Buck

It must be a hard life, constantly feeling persecuted by the cruel forces of reality.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:56:56am

re: #74 McSpiff

Pretty sure thats why O'keefe did this in the first place.

That is obvious. My question is more, whether they have an opportunity?

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:57:04am

re: #72 Buck

As did the unions against him.

Bottom line for me is that people are quite happy to make up stuff and attribute it to Walker.

My point is only that.

There's a difference between making a logical deduction and just making stuff up.

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:57:31am

re: #72 Buck

As did the unions against him.

Bottom line for me is that people are quite happy to make up stuff and attribute it to Walker.

My point is only that.

And just what is being made up? Cite?

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:57:45am

I'm sort of waiting for the heavily edited video showing why we need to outlaw the Democratic party in its entirety. Maybe next week.

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:57:53am

re: #63 Simply Sarah

On days I decide that I really hate myself, I read the postings in unmoderated online comment sections. Yahoo! New is normally good for making me hate humanity.

On days I decide I really hate myself, I just punch myself in the face.

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:58:14am

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

That is obvious. My question is more, whether they have an opportunity?

I think you'll see NPR defunded. I don't think the Dems will be willing to defend them after this.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:58:22am

re: #86 b_sharp

On days I decide I really hate myself, I just punch myself in the face.

Don't actually hate yourself that much then, I guess.

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:58:54am

re: #85 Simply Sarah

I'm sort of waiting for the heavily edited video showing why we need to outlaw the Democratic party in its entirety. Maybe next week.

How about a bill demanding it be called the Democrat Socialist party?

Oh wait, that actually happened.....

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:59:23am

I've noticed a move to the center in NPR's Israel-Palestinian coverage lately too, by the way. The bias used to be pretty irritating, but it seems to me as a very long-time listener that it's improved a lot.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 10:59:42am

re: #72 Buck

As did the unions against him.

You keep bringing this up and I'm not sure why. In a perfect world, yes, there would be much stricter limits on campaign spending and we wouldn't have the bullshit circus that currently makes it near-impossible for anyone vaguely normal to run for office.

But given that the world is not perfect, I am glad that people who actually, you know, represent working people like me have a say in the political process, and it's not all fat old white guys who want to save money by taking the monoxide detectors out of their mines.

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:00:07am

re: #85 Simply Sarah

I'm sort of waiting for the heavily edited video showing why we need to outlaw the Democratic party in its entirety. Maybe next week.

They are working on it, but the trick is simply make sure that nobody can vote for them in the first place...

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:01:25am

re: #87 McSpiff

I think you'll see NPR defunded. I don't think the Dems will be willing to defend them after this.

Why not? The Dems could use a little steel in the backbone, methinks.

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:02:07am

Dinner! Bye folks, have a good one.

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:02:28am

re: #92 celticdragon

They are working on it, but the trick is simply make sure that nobody can vote for them in the first place...

The naked opportunism in that article is quite something. "Young people skew liberal, therefore we must make it harder for young people to vote."

The GOP - increasing your opportunity to commit voter fraud since 1963.

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:02:41am

re: #91 iossarian

You keep bringing this up and I'm not sure why. In a perfect world, yes, there would be much stricter limits on campaign spending and we wouldn't have the bullshit circus that currently makes it near-impossible for anyone vaguely normal to run for office.

But given that the world is not perfect, I am glad that people who actually, you know, represent working people like me have a say in the political process, and it's not all fat old white guys who want to save money by taking the monoxide detectors out of their mines.

See the assholes who ran the Westray Mine for a convenient example!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The idea that we can simply get rid of unions because the battle is won is beyond short sighted.

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:02:51am

re: #80 iossarian

Actual examples of making stuff up please.

Number 17 above makes up what Walker actually said in the call.

You still haven't successfully denied either of my points A or B above.

I understand that you want to demonize the Kochs. But it is YOU who fail to prove the conspiracy. That I can't refute your over the top accusation is really not important to me.

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:03:15am

re: #92 celticdragon

They are working on it, but the trick is simply make sure that nobody can vote for them in the first place...

The new GOP majorities in New Hampshire are not getting nearly enough attention (Well, maybe outside of the state). They're going absolutely wild in what they're very seriously proposing. And since they have veto-proof majorities, they can do almost anything as long as they whip the party into line. I know repealing same-sex marriage is on the table, much to the confusion of the populace that voted for them on pledges that they'd focus on jobs and the economy. Maybe the voters should have thought about what they'd actually do before voting for them all...

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:03:53am

re: #93 celticdragon

Why not? The Dems could use a little steel in the backbone, methinks.

The outcome is being decided right now, and those will win whose frame will be more successful. Will it be "NPR is antisemitic" or "Another hoax by O'Keefe". (Yes, I'm obviously exaggerating.)

100

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:04:09am

re: #88 Simply Sarah

Don't actually hate yourself that much then, I guess.

I think my actions are less painful than yours.

101

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:04:18am

re: #93 celticdragon

Why not? The Dems could use a little steel in the backbone, methinks.

They could, but I'm really not sure they have it.

102

Obdicut Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:04:19am

re: #97 Buck

You seriously think that "The Koch brothers spend a lot of money influencing politics" is a conspiracy?

103

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:04:41am

re: #100 b_sharp

I think my actions are less painful than yours.

Oh, without a doubt. Hence my comment. :P

104

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:04:51am

re: #91 iossarian

You keep bringing this up and I'm not sure why. In a perfect world, yes, there would be much stricter limits on campaign spending and we wouldn't have the bullshit circus that currently makes it near-impossible for anyone vaguely normal to run for office.

But given that the world is not perfect, I am glad that people who actually, you know, represent working people like me have a say in the political process, and it's not all fat old white guys who want to save money by taking the monoxide detectors out of their mines.

Of course, that is why he is trying to snuff the unions while he fellates the ~~cock~~ err, um, Koch Brothers with their laughable astroturf Joe Teh Plummer!!ty! bus tours.

Or is that too uncivil of me?

105

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:06:53am

re: #97 Buck

You're talking points aren't even coherent anymore. There's no conspiracy about the Koch brothers. What they fund is a matter of public record. What those groups advocate is a matter of public record.

You look pretty fucking stupid denying what they have no problem admitting to.

106

moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:07:36am

re: #72 Buck

As did the unions against him.

Bottom line for me is that people are quite happy to make up stuff and attribute it to Walker.

My point is only that.

Looks like they had good reason.

107

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:08:04am

The "he" I refference is Governor Walker, by the by. That was not directed at Buck in any fashion.

108

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:08:10am

re: #105 McSpiff

You're talking points aren't even coherent anymore. There's no conspiracy about the Koch brothers. What they fund is a matter of public record. What those groups advocate is a matter of public record.

You look pretty fucking stupid denying what they have no problem admitting to.

So Walker has admitted "he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment"?

OK, link please.

109

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:09:19am

re: #108 Buck

I said nothing about Walker. At least try to read the posts before posting your half witted talking points.

110

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:09:20am

re: #108 Buck

So Walker has admitted "he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment"?

OK, link please.

See, the scary thing is that I wouldn't be surprised if such a statement got 30-40% support in polling on it.

111

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:10:01am

re: #106 moderatelyradicalliberal

Looks like they had good reason.

GOP 2011: Self interest, its not in your self interest.

112

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:10:15am

re: #109 McSpiff

I said nothing about Walker. At least try to read the posts before posting your half witted talking points.

It is you who is failing to read the posts. Cause that is what i am talking about.

113

Obdicut Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:10:37am

re: #108 Buck

By appearing to accept being shown a good time in California (hey-o), Walker may have actually, really, gosh-darned actually committed an ethics violation. I know that corruption is hold hat, but saying that you'll accept favors from people who benefit from your legislation is, really, actually something bad.

114

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:12:38am

re: #112 Buck

It is you who is failing to read the posts. Cause that is what i am talking about.

Oh sorry, you didn't mention the Koch brothers?

115

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:12:38am

re: #97 Buck

Number 17 above makes up what Walker actually said in the call.

I understand that you want to demonize the Kochs. But it is YOU who fail to prove the conspiracy. That I can't refute your over the top accusation is really not important to me.

re: #108 Buck

So Walker has admitted "he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment"?

OK, link please.

Dude, you are getting into Flat Earther territory now. You are demanding that people spoon feed you public info that is easily obtained so that you can then deny it based on the provenance, reporter or whatever.

It is shamless and dishonest, and you are simply being agressively ignorant.

116

SpaceJesus Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:13:09am

Who do these tea partiers and conservatives think they are fooling? After two centuries of social defeats such as slavery, female suffrage, and civil rights, they think we haven't caught on to the fact that they are bigoted assholes? Really?

117

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:13:20am

re: #113 Obdicut

By appearing to accept being shown a good time in California (hey-o), Walker may have actually, really, gosh-darned actually committed an ethics violation. I know that corruption is hold hat, but saying that you'll accept favors from people who benefit from your legislation is, really, actually something bad.

May have committed a felony, actually.

118

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:13:26am

re: #97 Buck

Number 17 above makes up what Walker actually said in the call.

I understand that you want to demonize the Kochs. But it is YOU who fail to prove the conspiracy. That I can't refute your over the top accusation is really not important to me.

Ho ho. Let's dig some quotes from the transcript (which is linked in full):

[Link: host.madison.com...]

Responding to "Koch"'s offer to contact one of the Dems who may be more favorable towards Walker:

Well, actually, in his case I wouldn’t call him and I’ll tell you why: He’s pretty reasonable but he’s not one of us, um, so I would let him be. I think he is in a position where he can maybe motivate that caucus, but he’s not a, he’s not an ally, he’s just a, he’s just a guy. He was in the Senate years ago. He was actually the Senate (word missing) here back in the ’80s and Tommy Thompson hired him to be the head of Health and Human Services. He went into the private sector, made real money and, uh, became a little more more open-minded.

Plans to use layoffs to intimidate the absent politicians:

The other thing is I’ve got layoff notices ready. We put out the at-risk notices. We’ll announce Thursday, and they’ll go out early next week. And we’ll probably get 5 to 6,000 state workers will get at-risk notices for layoffs. We might ratchet that up a little bit, you know.

Referring to what the Kochs can do for him (Walker):

The other thing is more long-term, and that is, after this, um, you know the coming days and weeks and months ahead, particulary in some of these, uh, more swing areas, a lot of these guys are gonna need, they don’t necessarily need ads for them, but they’re gonna need a message out reinforcing why this was a good thing to do for the economy and a good thing to do for the state. So to the extent that that message is out over and over again, that’s obviously a good thing.

More acknowledgment of Koch's support:

Thanks, thanks for all the support and helping us move the cause forward, and we appreciate it. We’re, uh, we’re doing the just and right thing for the right reasons, and it’s all about getting our freedoms back.

119

moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:14:04am

re: #98 Simply Sarah

The new GOP majorities in New Hampshire are not getting nearly enough attention (Well, maybe outside of the state). They're going absolutely wild in what they're very seriously proposing. And since they have veto-proof majorities, they can do almost anything as long as they whip the party into line. I know repealing same-sex marriage is on the table, much to the confusion of the populace that voted for them on pledges that they'd focus on jobs and the economy. Maybe the voters should have thought about what they'd actually do before voting for them all...

Bullshit, they weren't confused. Nobody over the age of 30 is confused about the differences between the two parties. The economy was bad and when the economy gets bad, people get mean. They look for scapegoats to blame and it's usually a group of people less powerful than themselves. The people who gave the TGOP these big majorities across the country just didn't want their taxes to go up and fuck anyone else who was adversely affected. They still wouldn't give a shit if the TGOP had been smart enough not to do things that would adversely affect people who voted for them.

120

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:14:08am

re: #114 McSpiff

Oh sorry, you didn't mention the Koch brothers?

As it relates to the the conspiracy outlined in #17, and attributed to Walker.

121

celticdragon Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:15:12am

re: #120 Buck

As it relates to the the conspiracy outlined in #17, and attributed to Walker.

You are playing games now.

122

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:15:17am

re: #120 Buck

As it relates to the the conspiracy outlined in #17, and attributed to Walker.

And you're saying there's an attempt to demonize the Koch brothers?

123

Jadespring Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:15:28am

re: #102 Obdicut

You seriously think that "The Koch brothers spend a lot of money influencing politics" is a conspiracy?

It kinda explains where his head is at though.

124

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:16:53am

re: #122 McSpiff

And you're saying there's an attempt to demonize the Koch brothers?

That Walker admits he is bought and paid for.

125

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:17:11am

re: #122 McSpiff

And you're saying there's an attempt to demonize the Koch brothers?

Of course there iis. You don't think they got those horns and cloven hooves by themselves do you?

126

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:17:32am

re: #119 moderatelyradicalliberal

Bullshit, they weren't confused. Nobody over the age of 30 is confused about the differences between the two parties. The economy was bad and when the economy gets bad, people get mean. They look for scapegoats to blame and it's usually a group of people less powerful than themselves. The people who gave the TGOP these big majorities across the country just didn't want their taxes to go up and fuck anyone else who was adversely affected. They still wouldn't give a shit if the TGOP had been smart enough not to do things that would adversely affect people who voted for them.

To some degree. That said, I honestly think there's a sizable section of the population that is, quite simply, clueless about all of that and really do just go by the statements in a campaign. "Oh! I know nothing else about him, but he said he'd focus on jobs and help the economy! I should vote for him!"

127

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:18:37am

re: #124 Buck

That Walker admits he is bought and paid for.

So why did you say the Koch were being demonized in #97 Buck? Demonize suggests that you view the Kock brothers as somehow breaking the law or acting improperly. You're the only person on this thread using that type of language. Do you not feel that the Koch brothers have the same rights to support their interests via the political process?

128

Killgore Trout Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:19:31am

Gopher (from the Love Boat)....
Fox Guest Mann-Grandy Rails Against "Stealth Jihad" In America, Ties Obama To Muslim Brotherhood

129

moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:19:41am

re: #116 SpaceJesus

Who do these tea partiers and conservatives think they are fooling? After two centuries of social defeats such as slavery, female suffrage, and civil rights, they think we haven't caught on to the fact that they are bigoted assholes? Really?

They won in landslides all across the country after just a two year break from them fucking up the country. Of course they think they are fooling people. They did fool people. People could have seen very clearly who they were and didn't care because Republicans don't raise taxes. If you don't give a shit about anything else, nothing else they plan on doing is a problem. The only reason they are in hot water is because they were crazy enough to go after Republican leaning white male voters like cops and firefighters.

130

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:19:43am

Chrome 10's out today.

131

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:20:07am

re: #124 Buck

That Walker admits he is bought and paid for.

If you called up Scott Walker's office and said, "Hi this is Buck ___, and I'd like to talk to the Governor, please!" ... do you think you'd get put right through to Scott?

132

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:21:09am

re: #127 McSpiff

So why did you say the Koch were being demonized in #97 Buck? Demonize suggests that you view the Kock brothers as somehow breaking the law or acting improperly. You're the only person on this thread using that type of language. Do you not feel that the Koch brothers have the same rights to support their interests via the political process?

I said: "I understand that you (iossarian) want to demonize the Kochs." I have no Idea what you think I said.

133

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:22:01am

Groups that are targeted by the right wing need to start vetting their meetings a lot better. They should have checked to make sure this Muslim group really existed.

134

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:22:03am

re: #131 Charles

If you called up Scott Walker's office and said, "Hi this is Buck ___, and I'd like to talk to the Governor, please!" ... do you think you'd get put right through to Scott?

If I had a large financial interest and business presence in the state, yes I think I would.

135

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:22:04am

re: #132 Buck

I said: "I understand that you (iossarian) want to demonize the Kochs." I have no Idea what you think I said.

Kind of a non-answer Buck. Not sure why you're avoiding such a simple question. What laws do you feel the Koch Brothers have broken?

136

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:22:27am

re: #1 ralphieboy

I believe the folks at Fox lauded him as the "Future of Investivage Journalism"

I have a terrible feeling that they may be right.

137

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:22:50am

re: #135 McSpiff

Kind of a non-answer Buck. Not sure why you're avoiding such a simple question. What laws do you feel the Koch Brothers have broken?

I have stopped beating my wife?

I never said that the Koch bothers have broken a law.

138

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:22:59am

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a terrible feeling that they may be right.

He can start up a group with Dan Rather!
/

139

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:23:16am

re: #133 Charles

Groups that are targeted by the right wing need to start vetting their meetings a lot better. They should have checked to make sure this Muslim group really existed.

Nobody learned nuthin' from Borat and Brueno.

140

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:23:18am

re: #137 Buck

I have stopped beating my wife?

I never said that the Koch bothers have broken a law.

So why demonize them?

141

Mostly sane, most of the time. Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:23:38am

re: #131 Charles

If you called up Scott Walker's office and said, "Hi this is Buck ___, and I'd like to talk to the Governor, please!" ... do you think you'd get put right through to Scott?

Not that this has anything to do with Walker's ethics, but I think the highest-up politician I could just call up and talk to would be my state congressman. (Oregon State Legislature, I mean.)

But I wouldn't. I'd just talk to him the next time I saw him in the hallways at church.

142

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:23:54am

re: #140 McSpiff

So why demonize them?

I am not.

143

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:24:02am

re: #124 Buck

That Walker admits he is bought and paid for.

Walker receives large infusions of financial support, both direct and indirect, from the Koch brothers. Walker also is pushing policies that are directly in line with what the Koch brothers want: less government regulation, less worker power, making it easier for the Kochs to make money, at the expense of people who are not obscenely rich.

If you want to argue about the causal relationship between those two facts, go ahead, but that's angels and pins as far as I'm concerned. If Walker wasn't pushing those policies, they'd put their money behind some other guy who was more amenable.

The bottom 40% of people in this country have nothing. Practically no wealth at all. And you're trying to convince us that Walker's just a guy who happens to be implementing the policies that will turn that into 60, then 80, then 99%, and arguing over whether talking strategy with the money men over the phone when you can't even be bothered to talk to your political opponents constitutes a conspiracy or not.

I've got to go (work calls) but this is some lame, lame shit.

144

moderatelyradicalliberal Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:24:02am

re: #133 Charles

Groups that are targeted by the right wing need to start vetting their meetings a lot better. They should have checked to make sure this Muslim group really existed.

True every left leaning or perceived left leaning group or organization should be on guard.

145

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:24:09am

re: #133 Charles

Groups that are targeted by the right wing need to start vetting their meetings a lot better. They should have checked to make sure this Muslim group really existed.

This is probably true. I just don't like where this seems to be going, though, where you need to heavily vet every group and person you talk to, since they might be out to tape you in an awkward situation.

146

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:24:56am

re: #142 Buck

I am not.

So I'm confused by your instance that the Koch brothers are involved with some conspiracy? Do you have a source for this?

147

Romantic Heretic Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:25:06am

re: #41 iceweasel

I've often wondered why that should be. I don't have an answer. There just isn't ever going to be a conservative version of Jon Stewart for example. Why?

Because the Tea Partiers are True Believing fanatics. A requirement for all fanatics is to have your sense of humor removed surgically when you sign on.

Humor is dangerous to Truth™. Humor shows it might not be true and it might not be good. So humor cannot be accepted.

semi/

148

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:25:30am

re: #10 Big Steve

Not to be the magic balance fairy here but...

Is this not the same as the radio guy who called the Governor of Wisconsin posing as one of the Koch Brothers and taped the conversation?

I didn't like that either.

149

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:25:30am

re: #146 McSpiff

So I'm confused by your instance that the Koch brothers are involved with some conspiracy? Do you have a source for this?

I never said that they were.

150

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:25:38am

re: #146 McSpiff

PIMF: insistence

151

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:26:13am

re: #26 bubba zanetti

What we he supposed to do? Jump across the table in a restaurant and punch the guy in the nose, exclaiming "Take that, Jew-hater!"

Well, that would have been nice of him.

152

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:26:56am

re: #149 Buck

I never said that they were.

And now you know what its like to argue with you Buck. Its a frustrating game of semantics that has fuck all to do with any sort of reality.

153

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:27:00am

re: #133 Charles

Groups that are targeted by the right wing need to start vetting their meetings a lot better. They should have checked to make sure this Muslim group really existed.

Yep, If this guy wanted to stay at NPR and they fired him I would have no beef with that since he should be smarter than to fall for this even though it was a well crafted scam.

If I had the time I'd dig a bit more, like who paid for the dummy website etc. but tied up at work

154

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:27:50am

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that would have been nice of him.

/

The 5M well-spent.

155

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:28:23am

What's O'Keefe's next target? Sesame Street?

156

tradewind Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:29:00am

Looks like some of the outrage is from NPR execs, directed at Schiller, who is leaving for another gig: From SVP of NPR marketing:
We are appalled by the comments made by Ron Schiller in the video, which are contrary to what NPR stands for.
Mr. Schiller announced last week that he is leaving NPR for another job.”

Read more: [Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

157

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:29:27am

re: #155 JasonA

What's O'Keefe's next target? Sesame Street?

Mr. Chef, Mr. Chef, show us your green card!

158

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:29:38am

re: #155 JasonA

What's O'Keefe's next target? Sesame Street?

Cookie Monster wants to do wealth distribution only this time with cookies!
nom, nom, nom :)

159

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:30:38am

re: #74 McSpiff

Pretty sure thats why O'keefe did this in the first place.

Plus, he'd already hit Planned Parenthood, and then Lila did it just lately.

160

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:31:18am

re: #152 McSpiff

And now you know what its like to argue with you Buck. Its a frustrating game of semantics that has fuck all to do with any sort of reality.

Right... you repeatedly accuse me of saying something I didn't, and then say somehow I am outside of reality? (at least I think you said that, frankly I didn't fully understand what you just said.)

161

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:31:42am

re: #75 Summer

For me, it just comes down to the fact that James O'Keefe is an overtly racist, white supremacist, fucking asshole.

All the rest surrounding the details of the story, and trying to relate it to another story involving a certain Governor, is mere quibbling.

James O'Keefe is just another Tim McVeigh lite, and it shows.

I don't think he has a thing in common with McVeigh. O'Keefe is having a good time being a celebrity, and attacking every he doesn't like, and getting pats. He would no more carry out a terrorist attack than he would tell the truth.

162

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:32:48am

re: #160 Buck

Right... you repeatedly accuse me of saying something I didn't, and then say somehow I am outside of reality? (at least I think you said that, frankly I didn't fully understand what you just said.)

Now you understand.

163

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:32:51am

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

That is obvious. My question is more, whether they have an opportunity?

Sure. What comes out on that tape is pretty par for the course in some circles.

164

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:34:29am

re: #97 Buck

Number 17 above makes up what Walker actually said in the call.

I understand that you want to demonize the Kochs. But it is YOU who fail to prove the conspiracy. That I can't refute your over the top accusation is really not important to me.

Number 17 is not 'what Walker said in the call', it's 'what we can deduce from what Walker said in the call, and what he has done'.

165

tradewind Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:34:31am

James O'Keefe is just another Tim McVeigh lite, and it shows

......an appalling lack of connection with reality. O'Keefe = McVeigh, really?

166

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:34:32am

re: #162 McSpiff

Now you understand.

I understand correctly that you repeatedly accuse me of saying something I didn't?

Fine, then your comments are another example of making stuff up.

167

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:35:20am

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Cookie Monster wants to do wealth distribution only this time with cookies!
nom, nom, nom :)

ONE highly-edited taken out of context hit job video! Aa! Aa! Aa!

168

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:36:22am

re: #167 JasonA

ONE highly-edited taken out of context hit job video! Aa! Aa! Aa!

Brought to by the letter b and number 8.
ba-loney
bull-shit

169

Jadespring Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:36:41am

re: #166 Buck

I understand correctly that you repeatedly accuse me of saying something I didn't?

Fine, then your comments are another example of making stuff up.

No. All he did was give an example of what you do yourself and did up thread. Let you look in the mirror so to speak. That you don't like what you saw is the point.

170

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:37:39am

Heh...

[Link: topics.npr.org...]

171

McSpiff Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:38:24am

re: #166 Buck

I understand correctly that you repeatedly accuse me of saying something I didn't?

Fine, then your comments are another example of making stuff up.

Right. I used your usual 'debate' tactic of arguing against things no one has said. Think about it. Read up on it. Learn from it.

172

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:38:27am

re: #120 Buck

As it relates to the the conspiracy outlined in #17, and attributed to Walker.

That's not a 'conspiracy'. Everyone has declared their donations and their intentions.

173

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:40:57am

And so it begins:

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

The oldest and one of the largest pro-Israel groups in the country is urging American Jews to call their congressmen and demand they de-fund NPR following the release of an undercover video showing two National Public Radio (NPR) executives agreeing as men pretending to be members of a Muslim Brotherhood front group lament “Zionist” control of U.S. media.

174

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:41:56am

re: #170 Charles

Heh...

[Link: topics.npr.org...]

Nice.

NPR Now Links to News Content on Other Websites

The NPR audience has a thirst for news. To provide a greater depth of coverage for each day's top stories, NPR.org now features links to stories on other news sites.
Automated Display of News Stories

NPR has partnered with technology company Daylife to bring you news stories from around the web. Daylife uses automated technology to gather news from thousands of websites and then display a sampling of relevant stories on NPR.org. Google News uses similar automated technology.

These automated news story pages, powered by Daylife, currently reside at [Link: musicnews.npr.org...] and at [Link: topics.npr.org....] Site visitors may also see boxes containing links to these stories on other NPR.org pages. These link boxes clearly state that the stories they contain are "From Around the Web".

[...]

175

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:43:58am

re: #174 wrenchwench

I don't think it's totally automated, though -- somebody chose the excerpt from my post, it isn't just the first 50 words or whatever. It was edited by someone.

176

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:44:47am

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not a 'conspiracy'. Everyone has declared their donations and their intentions.

Well you may think that saying that a politician "tells the truth", that "he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment" (the second part of #17) is simply a logical step. I however think that is not proven at all. And I say it describes a conspiracy if it were true.

Again, #17 makes it very clear that something was said in the prank phone call, and I don't see it.

177

Jadespring Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:46:03am

re: #176 Buck

Well you may think that saying that a politician "tells the truth", that "he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment" (the second part of #17) is simply a logical step. I however think that is not proven at all. And I say it describes a conspiracy if it were true.

Again, #17 makes it very clear that something was said in the prank phone call, and I don't see it.

You need to look up the definition of conspiracy. It doesn't mean what it appears you think it means.

178

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:46:06am

Roger L. Simon's article is called "The Protocols of the Elders of NPR".

179

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:46:18am

re: #133 Charles

Groups that are targeted by the right wing need to start vetting their meetings a lot better. They should have checked to make sure this Muslim group really existed.

Anyone who's being offered 5 million dollars by any group should check to make sure that group actually exists. This is a bit of a screw-up all around.

180

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:46:19am

re: #175 Charles

I don't think it's totally automated, though -- somebody chose the excerpt from my post, it isn't just the first 50 words or whatever. It was edited by someone.

I noticed that. The line they made the opening one is a good eye-grabber for the NPR site.

181

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:46:32am

re: #173 Sergey Romanov

And so it begins:

[Link: dailycaller.com...]

And what did our friends at CAIR do when they heard Juan Williams?

182

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:47:54am

re: #181 Buck

CAIR is not a respectable org, ZOA is.

183

Stanghazi Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:48:15am

What does Okeefe's probation entail? Anyone know?

184

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:49:15am

re: #181 Buck

And what did our friends at CAIR do when they heard Juan Williams?

Yeah. Saying something on national TV is exactly like saying something in a private conversation with a potential donor.

185

tradewind Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:49:18am

re: #71 Sergey Romanov
Why would they need an excuse?
After all, Schiller himself remarked that there was really no need for the government money..... NPR would be ' better off without it'.
No problem.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

186

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:49:24am

re: #183 Stanley Sea

What does Okeefe's probation entail? Anyone know?

Damn good question. Seriously, the guy's a loser if you ask me. All he does is try to make life miserable for other people.

187

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:50:05am

re: #182 Sergey Romanov

CAIR is not a respectable org, ZOA is.

A right leaning org.

188

reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:51:33am

re: #183 Stanley Sea

re: #186 HappyWarrior

I'm sure it has something to do with wearing polyester leisure suits
and platform shoes......A slap on the wrist in otherwords!/

189

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:51:45am

re: #176 Buck

Well you may think that saying that a politician "tells the truth", that "he is in the employ of mega-rich oligarchs who want to destroy the remaining vestiges of working- and middle-class empowerment" (the second part of #17) is simply a logical step. I however think that is not proven at all. And I say it describes a conspiracy if it were true.

Again, #17 makes it very clear that something was said in the prank phone call, and I don't see it.

It doesn't describe a conspiracy at all. You yourself have acknowledged that business presence and campaign donations would give you access to the governor. The attitude that Walker and the Koch's have taken on unions, labor law, etc. is open and clear.

If you agree with them, well and good, if you do not, well and good. What you're muddying up this thread with is a somewhat silly insistence that comment #17 says that Walker said in the phone call that he worked for the Koch brothers. That's not what it says.

190

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:51:53am

re: #185 tradewind

Why would they need an excuse?
After all, Schiller himself remarked that there was really no need for the government money... NPR would be ' better off without it'.
No problem.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

Of course he said that in the very video about which I asked whether it will be an excuse.

191

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:54:23am

re: #182 Sergey Romanov

CAIR is not a respectable org, ZOA is.

Stupid move. ZOA could do more and better with this than fall in line with the latest Republican talking point/defunding project.

192

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:55:03am

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

It doesn't describe a conspiracy at all. You yourself have acknowledged that business presence and campaign donations would give you access to the governor. The attitude that Walker and the Koch's have taken on unions, labor law, etc. is open and clear.

If you agree with them, well and good, if you do not, well and good. What you're muddying up this thread with is a somewhat silly insistence that comment #17 says that Walker said in the phone call that he worked for the Koch brothers. That's not what it says.

OK, then "he is in the employ" means something different for you than it does for me. OH... Maybe you think the people of Wisconsin can be described as "mega-rich oligarchs"... but then that would mean something different than I think as well.

Let's just admit that despite both speaking english, the words have very different meaning for me and you.

193

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:55:15am

re: #180 wrenchwench

I noticed that. The line they made the opening one is a good eye-grabber for the NPR site.

I refreshed the page, and it changed.

194

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:55:57am

re: #185 tradewind

Why would they need an excuse?
After all, Schiller himself remarked that there was really no need for the government money... NPR would be ' better off without it'.
No problem.
[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

I'm frankly of a similar line of thought. The GOP has been hammering on this for decades, and now it's simply another piece in the culture wars. PBS and NPR would survive without federal funding, and frankly, I don't see how it's worth it to them.

195

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:56:16am

I haven't watched the full video -- is there a section where Schiller actually agrees with any of the more outrageous statements by the fake Muslims? In the 11-minute video, the most he ever does is sort of nod, as if he's listening. When the fake Muslim says "Jews control the media," Schiller doesn't even nod - he just looks at the phony Muslim and then goes on to another subject.

Unless there's more than that in the full video, which I doubt, this is so stupid it's giving me a headache. "The Protocols of the Elders of NPR?" Good grief.

196

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:56:57am

re: #193 wrenchwench

I refreshed the page, and it changed.

Here's the corrected link:

[Link: topics.npr.org...]

197

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:57:23am

re: #195 Charles

I haven't watched the full video -- is there a section where Schiller actually agrees with any of the more outrageous statements by the fake Muslims? In the 11-minute video, the most he ever does is sort of nod, as if he's listening. When the fake Muslim says "Jews control the media," Schiller doesn't even nod - he just looks at the phony Muslim and then goes on to another subject.

Unless there's more than that in the full video, which I doubt, this is so stupid it's giving me a headache. "The Protocols of the Elders of NPR?" Good grief.

Especially when the real Protocols were used as justification for things like the pogroms and Holocaust but hey it's not like the right has the little thing called "perspective."

198

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:57:23am

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Stupid move. ZOA could do more and better with this than fall in line with the latest Republican talking point/defunding project.

I frankly understand why a Jewish org would react this way (without the recourse to I-P coverage) - that video is psychologically crafty this way. Still Morton Klein should have cooled off for a minute. He even called Schiller an "NPR head".

199

tradewind Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:57:58am

re: #187 recusancy
At least they're not named as an unindicted conspirator organization. CAIR is, and as such the Feds won't even deal with them anymore.

200

Jadespring Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:58:24am

re: #192 Buck

OK, then "he is in the employ" means something different for you than it does for me. OH... Maybe you think the people of Wisconsin can be described as "mega-rich oligarchs"... but then that would mean something different than I think as well.

Let's just admit that despite both speaking english, the words have very different meaning for me and you.

No Buck. Words in English have different meanings. That you don't happen to understand, know or comprehend the particular usage employed in comment #17 doesn't mean that they mean things to different people. It means you misunderstood it and took it to mean something that it didn't say.

201

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:58:32am

re: #192 Buck

OK, then "he is in the employ" means something different for you than it does for me. OH... Maybe you think the people of Wisconsin can be described as "mega-rich oligarchs"... but then that would mean something different than I think as well.

Let's just admit that despite both speaking english, the words have very different meaning for me and you.

M-W says:
Definition of EMPLOY
transitive verb
1
a : to make use of (someone or something inactive) b : to use (as time) advantageously < a job that employed her skills> c (1) : to use or engage the services of (2) : to provide with a job that pays wages or a salary
2
: to devote to or direct toward a particular activity or person < employed all her energies to help the poor>

202

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:58:40am

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

If you agree with them, well and good, if you do not, well and good. What you're muddying up this thread with is a somewhat silly insistence that comment #17 says that Walker said in the phone call that he worked for the Koch brothers. That's not what it says.

To be fair, if you were desperately looking for a way to divert the conversation away from the fact that the GOP is the party of "upwards wealth transfer", you could construe my point B in that way.

It's another example of Buck's admiration for Lewinsky-era Clinton legal argumentation.

203

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:58:58am

re: #195 Charles

I haven't watched the full video -- is there a section where Schiller actually agrees with any of the more outrageous statements by the fake Muslims? In the 11-minute video, the most he ever does is sort of nod, as if he's listening. When the fake Muslim says "Jews control the media," Schiller doesn't even nod - he just looks at the phony Muslim and then goes on to another subject.

Unless there's more than that in the full video, which I doubt, this is so stupid it's giving me a headache. "The Protocols of the Elders of NPR?" Good grief.

I don't think there's more - if there were more, it would have been in the 11 minutes (who watched 2 hours, seriously).

204

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 11:59:00am

re: #156 tradewind

Looks like some of the outrage is from NPR execs, directed at Schiller, who is leaving for another gig: From SVP of NPR marketing:
We are appalled by the comments made by Ron Schiller in the video, which are contrary to what NPR stands for.
Mr. Schiller announced last week that he is leaving NPR for another job.”

Read more: [Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

From your link

The video is edited to such an extent it is impossible to tell whether the two posers actually say or do what the narrator says they say or do, or what exactly Schiller is responding to.

And that is the problem here. O'Keefe and his mentor Breibart have manipulated so many videos, that it is difficult to know what the truth is.

Read more: [Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

205

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:00:00pm

Honestly, I'd like to see the full video before I condemn one way or the other. O'Keefe's a known dirty trickster. Why on earth should a video he sends be taken as credible?

206

tradewind Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:00:34pm

Time to frost the king cake:
Have a good Lent, everyone.
Off 'til after Easter.

207

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:00:36pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

Honestly, I'd like to see the full video before I condemn one way or the other. O'Keefe's a known dirty trickster. Why on earth should a video he sends be taken as credible?

Because it reinforces a certain point of view...

208

Big Steve Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:00:54pm

Been thinking more about this:

1. I disagree with the assumption that Schiller is not a public figure. By Supreme Court decision, he is a public figure.

a public official or any other person pervasively involved in public affairs

Being the head of funding for NPR would definitely qualify under this definition but he has other positions on the Boards of non-profit and for profit organizations that provide entertainment.

2. Second, no matter whether a public figure or not, ANYONE talking to anyone else on behalf of their employer is always at risk of tarnishing the employer's reputation by what they say. If one is talking to potential donors, the reputation of the employer....in this case NPR.....is not a trivial matter to be suborned by personal opinions.

3. Like SFZ I agree that one should have checked out any organization who is promising $5MM (which would have been 3% of their annual budget in one swoop.)

209

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:01:13pm

re: #178 Sergey Romanov

Roger L. Simon's article is called "The Protocols of the Elders of NPR".

Did you happen to read about his "encounter" with Ahmadinejad? He said he "felt the presence of evil" despite being pretty secular before that. I don't know whether his slide into wingnuttiness accelerated at that point, or if it's been a steady decline, but it shows no sign of leveling off.

210

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:01:41pm

re: #195 Charles

I haven't watched the full video -- is there a section where Schiller actually agrees with any of the more outrageous statements by the fake Muslims? In the 11-minute video, the most he ever does is sort of nod, as if he's listening. When the fake Muslim says "Jews control the media," Schiller doesn't even nod - he just looks at the phony Muslim and then goes on to another subject.

Unless there's more than that in the full video, which I doubt, this is so stupid it's giving me a headache. "The Protocols of the Elders of NPR?" Good grief.

This is stupid, indeed. But allow me to suggest that if a similar piece-of-crap statement had been made about a number of other American minority groups, he probably would have reacted more assertively.

Or, maybe a funder could have said "Gays are out to recruit children because they can't have any of their own," and he would have just changed the subject. I don't know.

Either way, O'Keefe proves nothing important. Moving right along.

211

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:02:23pm

re: #199 tradewind

At least they're not named as an unindicted conspirator organization. CAIR is, and as such the Feds won't even deal with them anymore.

I don't think anyone here is going to defend CAIR.

212

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:02:27pm

re: #165 tradewind

...an appalling lack of connection with reality. O'Keefe = McVeigh, really?

For what it's worth, I don't think there's much in common at all.

213

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:02:49pm

re: #206 tradewind

Time to frost the king cake:
Have a good Lent, everyone.
Off 'til after Easter.

Giving up LGF for Lent?

I shall withhold my usual downding.

214

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:03:33pm

re: #205 HappyWarrior

Honestly, I'd like to see the full video before I condemn one way or the other. O'Keefe's a known dirty trickster. Why on earth should a video he sends be taken as credible?

That's the thing. I can't believe anything he says or shows at this point. He's demonstrated his willingness to lie too many times.

215

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:03:39pm

re: #199 tradewind

At least they're not named as an unindicted conspirator organization. CAIR is, and as such the Feds won't even deal with them anymore.

I have no love lost for CAIR. But the "unindicted co-conspirator" label is absolute bullshit when applied to anyone without immunity.

216

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:04:53pm

re: #209 wrenchwench

Did you happen to read about his "encounter" with Ahmadinejad? He said he "felt the presence of evil" despite being pretty secular before that. I don't know whether his slide into wingnuttiness accelerated at that point, or if it's been a steady decline, but it shows no sign of leveling off.

No, a linkie will be appreciated! :)

217

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:05:20pm

Well, I certainly agree with Ron Schiller when he says he doesn’t find “Zionist or pro-Israel” ideas at NPR, “even among funders.

Nothing wrong with that....

218

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:05:41pm

From Simon's article:

That they all sat there through the worst kind of anti-Semitic bilge that would make even George Soros and Pat Buchanan blush is as predictable as it is sickening.

*eyeroll*

219

Stanghazi Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:07:47pm

re: #213 wrenchwench

Giving up LGF for Lent?

I shall withhold my usual downding.

Ha. Thanks for that.

220

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:08:03pm

re: #218 Sergey Romanov

From Simon's article:

*eyeroll*

We all know about the anti-Semitic bilge that Buchanan has spewed, and believe me, he would have been happy as a clam to talk to Sheikh al-Keefe, or whatever this character was called about the Jews and the media. Believe me, he wouldn't blush.

What has Soros said that puts him in such company? I haven't read his syndicated column recently.

221

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:08:13pm

re: #218 Sergey Romanov

From Simon's article:

...George Soros...

*eyeroll*

HE SOLD HIS FAMILY TO THE NAZIS!!!

222

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:08:59pm

re: #221 iossarian

HE SOLD HIS FAMILY TO THE NAZIS!!!

So that's where he got his initial investment capital!

223

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:09:33pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

That's the thing. I can't believe anything he says or shows at this point. He's demonstrated his willingness to lie too many times.

Exactly, O'Keefe has a huge cred problem and it's been by his own doing and actions.

224

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:09:42pm

re: #222 prononymous

So that's where he got his initial investment capital!

Yup, then he made a killing* on Siemens and Hugo Boss suits.

* intentional

225

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:09:57pm

re: #221 iossarian

HE SOLD HIS FAMILY TO THE NAZIS!!!

And he doesn't feel GUILTY!!!

Jesus. If a right-wing businessman with the same record were being attacked like this for his childhood in Nazi Europe, the screams would raise the roof.

226

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:10:34pm

re: #224 iossarian

I would actually like to withdraw comment 224, which is in very poor taste.

Apologies to anyone who was offended.

227

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:10:58pm

re: #221 iossarian

HE SOLD HIS FAMILY TO THE NAZIS!!!

He blamed Israel for what is happening in Egypt, and said that Israel was the main obstacle to democracy in the ME.

228

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:11:12pm

re: #223 HappyWarrior

Exactly, O'Keefe has a huge cred problem and it's been by his own doing and actions.

I'm a good target for this particular sting. I'm a pro-Israel activist, acutely aware of the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism that's acceptable in left-leaning American circles. I should go up like a rocket over this.

It's just that I've seen O'Keefe's work before. I'll pass on the hysterics on demand, thanks.

229

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:11:37pm

re: #227 Buck

He blamed Israel for what is happening in Egypt, and said that Israel was the main obstacle to democracy in the ME.

He's wrong on both counts, then.

230

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:11:57pm

One thing that bothers me and that is not addressed by the fact the it was a fundraising event. They presented themselves as basically an MB outlet. 5 million or 10, I don't think NPR should be sponsored by MB-linked groups, n'est-ce pas? Was Schiller so stupid as not to understand this?

231

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:12:09pm

re: #216 Sergey Romanov

No, a linkie will be appreciated! :)

Here you go.

So how does this make me religious?
Well, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, maybe no one is an atheist when confronted with what he finally acknowledges to be Evil. If there is Evil, there must be Good, no? And some force governing this game, something that, well, looks over it.

I know I am being irrational here, so I will stop. Being in the presence of Ahmadinejad’s evil, fleeting and haltingly put me in the presence of something else.

RTWT, as they say.

232

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:13:09pm

re: #230 Sergey Romanov

One thing that bothers me and that is not addressed by the fact the it was a fundraising event. They presented themselves as basically an MB outlet. 5 million or 10, I don't think NPR should be sponsored by MB-linked groups, n'est-ce pas? Was Schiller so stupid as not to understand this?

If we shouldn't have certain companies funded by certain groups we should make a law about it, otherwise live and let live.

Sorry but I've never been a fan of unspoken rules....

233

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:13:22pm

re: #227 Buck

He blamed Israel for what is happening in Egypt, and said that Israel was the main obstacle to democracy in the ME.

He didn't blame Israel. He did say something about an obstacle, but as I read it, more in a passive role.

234

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:14:13pm

re: #231 wrenchwench

Here you go.

RTWT, as they say.

My mother, who is a life long atheist said the same thing about the Islamic terrorists who hijacked her plane. She said, for the first time she saw true evil.

235

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:14:17pm

re: #232 jamesfirecat

It's not about the law. Should NPR take David Duke's money just because it's legal?

236

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:15:23pm

re: #230 Sergey Romanov

One thing that bothers me and that is not addressed by the fact the it was a fundraising event. They presented themselves as basically an MB outlet. 5 million or 10, I don't think NPR should be sponsored by MB-linked groups, n'est-ce pas? Was Schiller so stupid as not to understand this?

He may not have wanted to process that on the fly. It was an event, his job was to be charming, not to assess the advisability of taking money from a Muslim-Brotherhood linked group. I can only assume that if they hadn't turned out to be the O'Keefe Brigade, he would have written up some sort of report, and they would have examined the group before taking millions from them.

At least I hope so--having dealt with non-profit development and gifts people in the past, I know that they can be reasonably stupid.

237

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:15:25pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm a good target for this particular sting. I'm a pro-Israel activist, acutely aware of the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism that's acceptable in left-leaning American circles. I should go up like a rocket over this.

It's just that I've seen O'Keefe's work before. I'll pass on the hysterics on demand, thanks.

Yep, excellent point.

238

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:16:29pm

re: #234 Buck

My mother, who is a life long atheist said the same thing about the Islamic terrorists who hijacked her plane. She said, for the first time she saw true evil.

Tell about it, if you can.

239

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:16:41pm

re: #234 Buck

My mother, who is a life long atheist said the same thing about the Islamic terrorists who hijacked her plane. She said, for the first time she saw true evil.

Did she become religious after that?

240

Charles Johnson Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:16:47pm

re: #230 Sergey Romanov

One thing that bothers me and that is not addressed by the fact the it was a fundraising event. They presented themselves as basically an MB outlet. 5 million or 10, I don't think NPR should be sponsored by MB-linked groups, n'est-ce pas? Was Schiller so stupid as not to understand this?

I doubt they told anyone in advance that they were a Muslim Brotherhood group, that would have tipped someone off to their intentions. It was sprung on the execs at the dinner.

241

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:16:49pm

re: #234 Buck

My mother, who is a life long atheist said the same thing about the Islamic terrorists who hijacked her plane. She said, for the first time she saw true evil.

I don't know that atheism should prevent a person from acknowledging evil. Most atheists I know acknowledge good in people.

242

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:17:03pm

re: #233 Sergey Romanov

He didn't blame Israel. He did say something about an obstacle, but as I read it, more in a passive role.

If he meant it in a passive sense then he might be right ONLY IN THE SENSE THAT as long as Israel exists it gives the Middle Eastern dictators a target to turn their populations rage against instead of having that hatred directed against them because of what a shitty job they're doing leading their countries and looking after their people...

243

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:17:43pm

This is what Soros said:

The main stumbling block is Israel. In reality, Israel has as much to gain from the spread of democracy in the Middle East as the United States has. But Israel is unlikely to recognize its own best interests because the change is too sudden and carries too many risks. And some U.S. supporters of Israel are more rigid and ideological than Israelis themselves. Fortunately, Obama is not beholden to the religious right, which has carried on a veritable vendetta against him. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee is no longer monolithic or the sole representative of the Jewish community. The main danger is that the Obama administration will not adjust its policies quickly enough to the suddenly changed reality.

244

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:17:56pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

Good point.

245

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:17:58pm

re: #236 SanFranciscoZionist

He may not have wanted to process that on the fly. It was an event, his job was to be charming, not to assess the advisability of taking money from a Muslim-Brotherhood linked group. I can only assume that if they hadn't turned out to be the O'Keefe Brigade, he would have written up some sort of report, and they would have examined the group before taking millions from them.

At least I hope so--having dealt with non-profit development and gifts people in the past, I know that they can be reasonably stupid.

It's not clear to me, and I don't want to bother to read through everything, how much prep work had been done before Schiller got handed these guys, and what he thought the situation was.

246

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:18:01pm

re: #155 JasonA

What's O'Keefe's next target? Sesame Street?

Yes, he's going to dress up like a muslim and see if he can get big bird to join the Muslim Brotherhood.

247

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:18:30pm

re: #230 Sergey Romanov

One thing that bothers me and that is not addressed by the fact the it was a fundraising event. They presented themselves as basically an MB outlet. 5 million or 10, I don't think NPR should be sponsored by MB-linked groups, n'est-ce pas? Was Schiller so stupid as not to understand this?

They described themselves as MB funded, and he responded that he felt there was not enough of that voice in the media... much like the lack of women's voice.

248

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:19:37pm

re: #243 recusancy

This is what Soros said:

Buck, you seem to have been putting words in Mr. Soros' mouth. Do you have another quote?

249

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:19:53pm

re: #246 Thanos

Yes, he's going to dress up like a muslim and see if he can get big bird to join the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now I know why I was always told to have a good imagination, thanks. Visualizing that has me cracking up.

250

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:20:48pm

re: #247 Buck

They described themselves as MB funded, and he responded that he felt there was not enough of that voice in the media... much like the lack of women's voice.

He said 'Muslim', did he not? Rather than "Muslim Brotherhood"?

251

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:20:52pm

To be clear, if Schiller hadn't left I'd be demanding they fire him. Very poor judgement on his part.

That doesn't change the fact that O'Keefe is a baiting smear artist with no qualms about dishonestly editing video to make it sound like people are saying things they didn't.

IMO, the point is that NPR is apologizing and distancing themselves from someone that already left their organization - before the net-rage even started. Right wing politicians and pundits, meanwhile, have to be coerced into apologizing for antisemitism, if they do at all.

252

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:20:57pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck, you seem to have been putting words in Mr. Soros' mouth. Do you have another quote?

LOL. "I didn't mean to be taken literally when I said that Soros sold his family to the Nazis..."

253

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:21:25pm

re: #247 Buck

They described themselves as MB funded, and he responded that he felt there was not enough of that voice in the media... much like the lack of women's voice.

Not to mention that fact that as far as I'm concerned, this whole thing is enormously suspect just because it comes from O'Keefe. He lies, and he cuts and pastes.

254

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:21:29pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck, you seem to have been putting words in Mr. Soros' mouth. Do you have another quote?

He probably just read this article about that article.

255

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:22:09pm

Here's a fun little Cracked article I just stumbled on:

5 Ridiculous Things You Probably Believe About Islam

So for instance, in France they have about 3 million Muslim women. French police decided to figure out how many of them wore burqas and/or niqabs and found the number to be ... 367.
Read more: [Link: www.cracked.com...]

256

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:23:30pm

re: #249 HappyWarrior

Now I know why I was always told to have a good imagination, thanks. Visualizing that has me cracking up.

The sad fact is that he could probably recruit Oscar the Grouch... and besides that we all know that Bert is Bin Laden's buddy!.

257

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:23:33pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to mention that fact that as far as I'm concerned, this whole thing is enormously suspect just because it comes from O'Keefe. He lies, and he cuts and pastes.

He cuts... and pastes
Cuts and pastes
Cuts and pastes
Cut
Cut
Cut
Paste
Paste
Paste
It's the O'Keefe and Brietbart show!

258

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:23:52pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to mention that fact that as far as I'm concerned, this whole thing is enormously suspect just because it comes from O'Keefe. He lies, and he cuts and pastes.

And yet he still has people publishing his "findings."

259

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:24:13pm

/I just wonder how at this point there is anyone who wouldn't recognize O'Keefe? sheesh.

260

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:24:38pm

re: #254 recusancy

He probably just read this article about that article.

Rubin's best point there is the AIPAC issue, not because I carry much of a torch for AIPAC, as because the groups getting promoted as a counterbalance to them tend to be gormless and more advocates of 'give peace a chance' than of the state of Israel. I am not a J-Streeter.

But Soros didn't say what Buck said he said, and frankly, I'm in a bit of a mood about that right now.

261

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:25:27pm

re: #255 JasonA

Here's a fun little Cracked article I just stumbled on:

5 Ridiculous Things You Probably Believe About Islam

That stat is the one that always blows me away. All this hysteria about burqas and niqab, and the streets of Europe are being overrun--and practically no one wears it.

262

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:25:44pm

re: #257 jamesfirecat

Whizzing and pasting and Pooting through the day...

263

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:26:00pm

re: #242 jamesfirecat

If he meant it in a passive sense then he might be right ONLY IN THE SENSE THAT as long as Israel exists it gives the Middle Eastern dictators a target to turn their populations rage against instead of having that hatred directed against them because of what a shitty job they're doing leading their countries and looking after their people...

Recusancy posted the excerpt. Soros did not blame Israel for Egypt, so that's false for starters, as for being a stumbling block, he lays more blame at the feet of the US supporters that allegedly "are more rigid and ideological than Israelis themselves" (he means the religious right and the AIPAC). Again, these are just political musings and he is entitled to his opinions - but that doesn't come closer, not by a nanometer, to Pat Buchanan's stances. So there is no justification for Simon's diatribe.

264

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:26:16pm

re: #242 jamesfirecat

If he meant it in a passive sense then he might be right ONLY IN THE SENSE THAT as long as Israel exists it gives the Middle Eastern dictators a target to turn their populations rage against instead of having that hatred directed against them because of what a shitty job they're doing leading their countries and looking after their people...

Look, you can agree with him that the existence of Israel and the democracy there is a stumbling block to the spread of democracy. You can blame the Israel lobby groups and say they are causing the USA to fail to act in it's own interest. As it was outlined and echoed at Media Matters.

I see it as a shining beacon of democracy. And I see the people who lobby for Israels interest as representative of a great number of americans (jewish and not).

265

blueraven Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:26:21pm

re: #259 brookly red

/I just wonder how at this point there is anyone who wouldn't recognize O'Keefe? sheesh.

It wasn't O'Keefe in the video, it was a cohort.

266

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:26:24pm

re: #259 brookly red

/I just wonder how at this point there is anyone who wouldn't recognize O'Keefe? sheesh.

Okeef was not one of the "muslims".

267

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:26:43pm

re: #258 JasonA

And yet he still has people publishing his "findings."

Sure thing. His findings reliably cast a terrible light on people that his followers already didn't like.

268

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:27:16pm

re: #259 brookly red

/I just wonder how at this point there is anyone who wouldn't recognize O'Keefe? sheesh.

You saw "Team America, World Police", didn't you? They just stuck some fuzz on him.

269

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:27:19pm

re: #255 JasonA

Here's a fun little Cracked article I just stumbled on:

5 Ridiculous Things You Probably Believe About Islam

I read it. The most interesting stat I saw was how American Muslims give or take 3% share the same views of the American general public on evolution. Cracked may be humor but like The Onion they always kill the crazies with facts.

270

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:27:35pm

re: #265 blueraven

It wasn't O'Keefe in the video, it was a cohort.

thank you, I was wondering

271

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:27:40pm

re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist

(i)t comes from O'Keefe...as far as I'm concerned, this whole thing is...fact

O'Keefe appreciates your support.
/

272

subsailor68 Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:28:51pm

re: #235 Sergey Romanov

It's not about the law. Should NPR take David Duke's money just because it's legal?

Hi Sergey!

Good point, but having thought about it, I'd probably take the money, then make the following announcement:

"We're pleased to announce that David Duke has donated $2,000,00 to NPR. He told us that this was funding he was diverting from his own media endeavors.

We are, however, a little embarrassed that we forgot to tell him we're going to use the money to produce a profile of Morris Dees and the good work he and the Southern Poverty Law Center are doing.

Oh well, our bad."

;-)

273

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:29:10pm

re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist

Rubin's best point there is the AIPAC issue, not because I carry much of a torch for AIPAC, as because the groups getting promoted as a counterbalance to them tend to be gormless and more advocates of 'give peace a chance' than of the state of Israel. I am not a J-Streeter.

But Soros didn't say what Buck said he said, and frankly, I'm in a bit of a mood about that right now.

And I seem to be seriously overusing the word 'frankly' today.

274

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:29:59pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck, you seem to have been putting words in Mr. Soros' mouth. Do you have another quote?

When did I do that? Put words in his mouth?

275

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:30:12pm

re: #265 blueraven

It wasn't O'Keefe in the video, it was a cohort.

Lila Rose had the common sense to hire an actor, because O'Keefe's pimp outfit was so painfully stupid.

276

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:31:07pm

re: #264 Buck

Look, you can agree with him that the existence of Israel and the democracy there is a stumbling block to the spread of democracy. You can blame the Israel lobby groups and say they are causing the USA to fail to act in it's own interest. As it was outlined and echoed at Media Matters.

I see it as a shining beacon of democracy. And I see the people who lobby for Israels interest as representative of a great number of americans (jewish and not).

Buck, you completely misrepresented what he said, and you are still doing so, after making a giant issue about supposedly putting words in Walker's mouth IN THIS THREAD.

277

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:32:09pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

And I seem to be seriously overusing the word 'frankly' today.

It's a good word and it bears repeating.

278

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:32:37pm

re: #274 Buck

When did I do that? Put words in his mouth?

"He blamed Israel for what is happening in Egypt, and said that Israel was the main obstacle to democracy in the ME."

You have not produced such a quote.

279

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:32:43pm

re: #264 Buck

It's not an either or situation, Buck. A shining beacon of democracy can have very problematic policies (democracy does not guarantee sane policies in every sphere, you know), and just because people point out what they see as these problems doesn't mean that they're anti-shining beacon of democracy.

280

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:33:34pm

re: #279 Sergey Romanov

It's not an either or situation, Buck. A shining beacon of democracy can have very problematic policies (democracy does not guarantee sane policies in every sphere, you know), and just because people point out what they see as these problems doesn't mean that they're anti-shining beacon of democracy.

The Soros quote on the table also acknowledges that Israel's tentativeness about democracy in Egypt is because of the risks involved for them. That's absolutely true.

281

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:33:54pm

Now for something a little different. It is time for me to take a break, do some errands, listen to a remix of my favorite doom track, etc:

Youtube Video

282

Amory Blaine Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:34:27pm

Wow. NPR speaks the truth. Again.

283

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:34:33pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

The Soros quote on the table also acknowledges that Israel's tentativeness about democracy in Egypt is because of the risks involved for them. That's absolutely true.

True and justified.

284

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:34:41pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

And I seem to be seriously overusing the word 'frankly' today.

I don't give a damn.

285

garhighway Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:34:48pm

Here's my favorite part of the Koch/Walker call:

Murphy: Right, right. Well, we’ll back you any way we can. But, uh, what we were thinking about the crowds was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.

Walker: You know, the, well, the only problem with that — because we thought about that. The problem — the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this. The teachers union did some polling of focus groups, I think, and found out that the public turned on ’em the minute they closed school down for a couple days. The guys we’ve got left are largely from out of state, and I keep dismissing it in all my press conferences saying, ‘Eh, they’re mostly from out of state.’ My only fear would be is if there was a ruckus caused is that that would scare the public into thinking maybe the governor has gotta settle to avoid all these problems. You know, whereas, I’ve said, ‘Hey, you know, we can handle this, people can protest. This is Madison, you know, full of the ’60s liberals. Let ’em protest.’ It’s not gonna affect us. And as long as we go back to our homes and the majority of the people are telling us we’re doing the right thing, let ’em protest all they want. Um, so that’s my gut reaction, is that I think it’s actually good if they’re constant, they’re noisy, but they’re quiet, nothing happens, ’cause sooner or later the media stops finding ’em interesting.

You will notice that Walker's reaction was not "Mr. Koch, what you suggest is just wrong!"

Instead, it was a tactical review of why he thought about importing "troublemakers" was not likely to work.

Interesting moral compass there, Gov.

286

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:35:13pm

re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck, you completely misrepresented what he said, and you are still doing so, after making a giant issue about supposedly putting words in Walker's mouth IN THIS THREAD.

Look, it's very simple. Right after selling his mother to Goebbels for a half-hour with Eva Braun, Soros made the absurd claim that the only reason that democracy is not flourishing throughout the Middle East is that the Arabs don't want to do anything that Israel does, and that the best thing that Israel could do is become a dictatorship so that all the camel jockeys would become shining cities on the hill, just to be "not like the Jews".

For an encore, he pointed out that the moon landings were faked and gave a touching rendition of his 1956 smash hit, "Hound Dog".

287

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:35:20pm

re: #264 Buck

Look, you can agree with him that the existence of Israel and the democracy there is a stumbling block to the spread of democracy. You can blame the Israel lobby groups and say they are causing the USA to fail to act in it's own interest. As it was outlined and echoed at Media Matters.

I see it as a shining beacon of democracy. And I see the people who lobby for Israels interest as representative of a great number of americans (jewish and not).

You seem to have completely missed the point of my post DESPITE the fact that I tried to be as clear as possible.

So here we go again.

Israel as a nation is much less repressive and arguably "far better" than most middle Eastern Nations.

Because of this, there exist nations/leaders who are more interested in pointing fingers at them and hating them than to try and improve their own situation.

Israel is to blame is to blame for a lack of democracy in the middle east the same way that "Social issue of the day (abortion/gay marriage/gay adoption" is to "blame" for Republicans getting elected, in that it makes a useful lightning rod for those in charge to focus hate on so as to obscure how little they're actually accomplishing when it comes to making life better for the people they were elected to represent...

288

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:35:33pm

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of....

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

289

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:35:43pm

re: #283 Sergey Romanov

True and justified.

Hell yeah. I'd like to be more excited about the Egypt situation, but there are real reasons to be concerned about where we could go.

290

recusancy Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:37:06pm

re: #289 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell yeah. I'd like to be more excited about the Egypt situation, but there are real reasons to be concerned about where we could go.

Buck, do you think this statement from SFZ is a stumbling block to democracy?

291

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:37:17pm

re: #288 Thanos

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of...

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

That and kittens.

292

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:37:57pm

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

That and kittens.

And hamsters.

293

garhighway Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:37:57pm

re: #268 SanFranciscoZionist

You saw "Team America, World Police", didn't you? They just stuck some fuzz on him.

And headed down bakkalakkadakka street.

294

Four More Tears Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:37:58pm

re: #288 Thanos

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of...

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

"He tasks me. He tasks me, and I shall have him!"

295

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:38:16pm

re: #288 Thanos

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of...

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

I'm not baiting. I'm arguing in dead earnest.

296

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:38:39pm

re: #292 wrenchwench

And hamsters.

And honey badger that don't give a shit.

297

Randall Gross Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:38:50pm

re: #292 wrenchwench

And hamsters.

and puppies....
Image: kasey-puppy.jpg

298

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:39:48pm

re: #297 Thanos

and puppies...
Image: kasey-puppy.jpg

Wow, a real karma-magnet. :P

299

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:39:54pm

re: #293 garhighway

And headed down bakkalakkadakka street.

Dirka dirka.

300

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:40:23pm

re: #288 Thanos

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of...

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

Damn straight. I have had this smelly "choice isn't under attack" dangling on a hook all week. Time to switch to peanut butter.

301

goddamnedfrank Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:40:44pm

re: #273 SanFranciscoZionist

And I seem to be seriously overusing the word 'frankly' today.

I have patent pending on that.

302

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:40:46pm

re: #297 Thanos

and puppies...
Image: kasey-puppy.jpg

So...puppies and kittens sitting on Buck's face = +100?

303

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:40:49pm

re: #276 SanFranciscoZionist

Buck, you completely misrepresented what he said, and you are still doing so, after making a giant issue about supposedly putting words in Walker's mouth IN THIS THREAD.

You say that I do, but I don't see where I do.

In the Washington Post article he just tells us what they (Israel) is thinking, and places them as the only stumbling block between Egyptians and freedom is Israel.

The main stumbling block is Israel. In reality, Israel has as much to gain from the spread of democracy in the Middle East as the United States has. But Israel is unlikely to recognize its own best interests because the change is too sudden and carries too many risks. And some U.S. supporters of Israel are more rigid and ideological than Israelis themselves.

"The main stumbling block is Israel."... I think the sentence is clear.

and I link to the Soros funded Media Matters where a regular columnist says:

If one needs additional proof that the "pro-Israel" lobby and the policies it dictates to US policymakers are bad for both the U.S. and Israel, look no further than what is happening in Egypt.

Also "The lobby and the ever-faithful Congress". What does that mean to you? I mean it is not Stephen Walt enough?

304

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:41:01pm

re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist

Dirka dirka.

Va?

Uh, I mean

Wha?

305

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:41:01pm

Watching last night's Daily Show. I think they owe Iowahawk royalties. He did this NYT-style coverage of the heartland a long time ago.

Still funny as hell. "Your Wisconsin cheese will run red with blood..."

306

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:41:21pm

Oh, sorry...

I thought you said drinka drinka.

307

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:41:57pm

re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist

Dirka dirka.

One of the best scenes in that whole movie is the monologue about how the "infidels" killed his family and the terrorist is like "You have balls, I like balls." Really a funny movie I thought and most of the Hollywood celebs spoofed sans Sean Penn from what I understand really enjoyed their spoofing. Heck even read that Damon and Baldwin wanted to play themselves and Clooney is a friend of Parker and Stone.

308

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:42:10pm

re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist

Dirka dirka.

My favorite moment in Team America is still the part where the backup gal goes into the cantina to rescue Gary. She says "Gary?"

Someone yells, "An infidel! Kill her!"

She shoots everyone in the place, except the belly dancer and the bartender, and then says in the same exact tone, "Gary?"

309

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:43:16pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not baiting. I'm arguing in dead earnest.

A dead Ernest.

310

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:43:28pm

re: #304 Sergey Romanov

Va?

Uh, I mean

Wha?

Mohammed jihad!

311

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:43:49pm

re: #309 b_sharp

A dead Ernest.

is he no longer with us?

312

jamesfirecat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:43:52pm

re: #303 Buck

You say that I do, but I don't see where I do

She was talking about how you completely misread my 242.

313

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:43:57pm

re: #303 Buck

the only stumbling block between Egyptians and freedom is Israel.

Buck - you appear to just have said that "the only stumbling block between Egyptians and freedom is Israel" (that is a direct quote of your own words from your post).

Oh, shit, I've done it too. FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUU

314

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:44:32pm

re: #311 brookly red

is he no longer with us?

Varney has been dead for years. Since, uh, 2000, apparently.

315

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:44:34pm

re: #307 HappyWarrior

One of the best scenes in that whole movie is the monologue about how the "infidels" killed his family and the terrorist is like "You have balls, I like balls." Really a funny movie I thought and most of the Hollywood celebs spoofed sans Sean Penn from what I understand really enjoyed their spoofing. Heck even read that Damon and Baldwin wanted to play themselves and Clooney is a friend of Parker and Stone.

Alec Baldwin says that all his daughter's friends know the words to 'You are worthless Alec Baldwin', and sing it at him at birthday parties and such.

I'm kind of horrified that they were allowed to watch the movie, but, eh, Hollywood.

316

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:45:26pm

re: #280 SanFranciscoZionist

The Soros quote on the table also acknowledges that Israel's tentativeness about democracy in Egypt is because of the risks involved for them. That's absolutely true.

Wanting to be careful about it, is not the same as being a stumbling block. Israel is clearly supporting the idea of democracy, but warning about the all too common "one election" democracy.

317

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:45:59pm

re: #311 brookly red

is he no longer with us?

Sadly, he died 11 years ago, with that silly grin on his face.

318

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:46:04pm

re: #314 Simply Sarah

Varney has been dead for years. Since, uh, 2000, apparently.

that could explain the lack of sequels I guess...

319

albusteve Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:46:41pm

re: #288 Thanos

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of...

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

really?....how small
downding me bro

320

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:46:43pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

Alec Baldwin says that all his daughter's friends know the words to 'You are worthless Alec Baldwin', and sing it at him at birthday parties and such.

I'm kind of horrified that they were allowed to watch the movie, but, eh, Hollywood.

Hadn't heard that. Honestly I was initially surprised to hear Alec took it well but now that I think about it, I remember that Alec always does really well and has a lot of fun as a guest host on SNL.

321

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:46:57pm

re: #313 iossarian

Buck - you appear to just have said that "the only stumbling block between Egyptians and freedom is Israel" (that is a direct quote of your own words from your post).

Oh, shit, I've done it too. FFFUUU

The main stumbling block is Israel. In reality, Israel has as much to gain from the spread of democracy in the Middle East as the United States has. But Israel is unlikely to recognize its own best interests because the change is too sudden and carries too many risks.

Seems very clear to me.

322

thecommodore Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:47:01pm

As a Marxist Fascist (in the right wing world, it's possible to be both), what gets me more than the sheer moronic pretexts this douchebag O'Keefe keeps coming up with is the fact that my fellow Marxist Fascists keep getting duped by them (with the exception of Planned Parenthood, and Abby Beaudreau of CNN, who smelled at rat from the get go). If I was an NPR Marxist Fascist, and a group claiming to be part of the Muslim Brotherhood wanted to have lunch with me, and kept asking very leading questions, I'd pay the bill, and get up and leave.

Seriously, though, this clown keeps making waves because no one will stand up to him. NPR execs are probably running around right now with like chickens with their heads cut off trying to figure out how to do damage control, when the best damage control would be saying, "Um....consider the source. Thanks for playing, Jimbo."

I mean really, something JAMES O'KEEFE posts on a right wing website is going to freak these people out?

Remember how Tom Vilsack and others in the White House freaked out over the Shirley Sherrod affair...even though it started with something ANDREW FUCKING BREIRTBART posted on his website. Like....they were really afraid of that guy!!!

We can and should laugh at these right wing bastards, but you know what? The reason they're winning is because no one is willing to stand up to them. Especially the Democrats!

End of rant!

323

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:47:01pm

re: #318 brookly red

that could explain the lack of sequels I guess...

You only have to save Christmas once.

324

iossarian Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:47:51pm

re: #321 Buck

Seems very clear to me.

So "main" and "only" mean the same thing now?

I thought words had specific, precise meanings in Buckworld.

325

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:48:12pm

re: #255 JasonA

Here's a fun little Cracked article I just stumbled on:

5 Ridiculous Things You Probably Believe About Islam

That article is great! did you make it a page? you should!

326

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:49:02pm

OT: Gah—break time!

I started off the morning by stepping in cold cat vomit before I had my first cup of coffee.

Then, before I could stop her, my other cat peed in a box I left on the floor which in turn—when I picked it up to take it to the trash— then leaked a 10-foot trail of cat piss across my living room carpet. We are now not on speaking terms. It is a battle of the wills—she wants me to make eye contact and forgive her. I will NOT, at least not for another 12 hours.

Then UPS suddenly decided that the package they were supposed to deliver today, which had already been put on the truck, had an illegible address label. Now it's been rescheduled for tomorrow, so I'll have to spend another day sitting around waiting for it. I want to know how in the hell it made it all the way onto the truck in Newark if they couldn't read the damned label.

To top it all off, I just spent 30 minutes trying to figure out why a web site menu I'm working on refused to point to the correct URLs on some pages. Um, that would be because I didn't include the freaking file in the header that would tell them where to look. *headdesk, headdesk, headdesk*

*sniffles, looks around room for sympathy*

327

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:49:23pm

re: #324 iossarian

So "main" and "only" mean the same thing now?

I thought words had specific, precise meanings in Buckworld.

He didn't list any other stumbling block did he? It was the only one he listed.

328

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:49:29pm

re: #325 iceweasel

That article is great! did you make it a page? you should!

I think there may have actually been a page for it a while back.

329

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:50:01pm

re: #323 b_sharp

You only have to save Christmas once.

what? and I sat up all freaking night waiting to pop a cap in the Grinch's ass?

330

BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:50:35pm

re: #328 Simply Sarah

I think there may have actually been a page for it a while back.

Ah, cool. I'm not around enough lately to stay up to date. So much good stuff here and in the pages, so little time.

331

Slap Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:50:52pm

re: #258 JasonA

And yet he still has people publishing his "findings."

My cat keeps wanting his findings published.

I just tell him to leave them in the damned catbox and I'll scoop 'em in a minute.

332

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:50:54pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

OT: Gah—break time!

I started off the morning by stepping in cold cat vomit before I had my first cup of coffee.

Then, before I could stop her, my other cat peed in a box I left on the floor which in turn—when I picked it up to take it to the trash— then leaked a 10-foot trail of cat piss across my living room carpet. We are now not on speaking terms. It is a battle of the wills—she wants me to make eye contact and forgive her. I will NOT, at least not for another 12 hours.

Then UPS suddenly decided that the package they were supposed to deliver today, which had already been put on the truck, had an illegible address label. Now it's been rescheduled for tomorrow, so I'll have to spend another day sitting around waiting for it. I want to know how in the hell it made it all the way onto the truck in Newark if they couldn't read the damned label.

To top it all off, I just spent 30 minutes trying to figure out why a web site menu I'm working on refused to point to the correct URLs on some pages. Um, that would be because I didn't include the freaking file in the header that would tell them where to look. *headdesk, headdesk, headdesk*

*sniffles, looks around room for sympathy*

Oh, sorry, you meant you.

{{{CL}}}

333

MinisterO Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:51:12pm

re: #288 Thanos

Buck baiting -- the cheapest quickest way to earn Karma that I know of...

/That's not sarcasm, but it's also not meant to offend anyone or single any particular person out, it's just an observation of how things are in Lizardville.

Alas, lizards do tend to pile on the true believers.

334

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:51:40pm

re: #328 Simply Sarah

I think there may have actually been a page for it a while back.

Yeah it's an older article from them. They really did a great job though. Because I see people spout out a lot of the stuff mentioned. The most prominent one is Arab=Muslim. Which is funny when you see people go off on "Allah" and then you have to politely tell them "Hey, Arab Christians say Allah too." And if I am not mistaken, in this country there are more Arab Christians than Arab Muslims. We've been having Lebanese immigrants to the US since gosh at least the 19th century.

335

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:52:00pm

re: #329 brookly red

what? and I sat up all freaking night waiting to pop a cap in the Grinch's ass?

Sorry, but his heart already grew. Now he has an enlarged heart and is on the heart transplant list.

336

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:52:03pm

re: #332 b_sharp

{{puddy tat}}

Oh, sorry, you meant you.

{{{CL}}}

LOL, thank you! (I think...)

337

Simply Sarah Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:52:17pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

Sounds like the kinda morning where you just want to take a shower and go back to bed...

338

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:53:16pm

re: #337 Simply Sarah

{{CL}}

Sounds like the kinda morning where you just want to take a shower and go back to bed...

Exactly. But there's nothing like Lizard hugs to make one feel better. ;o)

339

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:54:12pm

re: #316 Buck

Wanting to be careful about it, is not the same as being a stumbling block. Israel is clearly supporting the idea of democracy, but warning about the all too common "one election" democracy.

I don't even know where to begin, so I'll try this:

1. Israel's first concern has to be maintaining the treaty with whatever government comes in.

2. I think Soros' analysis of Israel's role in the region is flawed and rather uninformed. But he does not seem to be the kind of foaming anti-Israel nut his enemies would like him to be.

3. You said that Soros blamed Israel for what was happening in Egypt, which does not seem to be the case.

340

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:54:29pm

re: #338 CuriousLurker

Exactly. But there's nothing like Lizard hugs to make one feel better. ;o)

Go on, forgive the kitty. She's a lot warmer than lizards.

341

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:55:04pm

re: #327 Buck

He didn't list any other stumbling block did he? It was the only one he listed.

OK, I'm ending this transmission.

342

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:55:40pm

re: #338 CuriousLurker

Exactly. But there's nothing like Lizard hugs to make one feel better. ;o)

More hugs.

343

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:57:34pm

re: #334 HappyWarrior

Yeah it's an older article from them. They really did a great job though. Because I see people spout out a lot of the stuff mentioned. The most prominent one is Arab=Muslim. Which is funny when you see people go off on "Allah" and then you have to politely tell them "Hey, Arab Christians say Allah too."

Jews too. It just means 'God'. Like 'Gott', or 'Dieu', or 'Eru Iluvatar'.

344

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:57:57pm

re: #340 wrenchwench

Go on, forgive the kitty. She's a lot warmer than lizards.

{{CuriousLurker}}

The temptation is strong, but she knows she's not supposed to do that and she has a nice fresh litter box that I just changed yesterday. I suppose I could forgive her after another hours or so though... heh.

345

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:59:01pm

re: #342 b_sharp

More hugs.

Hahahaha!

346

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:59:01pm

re: #344 CuriousLurker

The temptation is strong, but she knows she's not supposed to do that and she has a nice fresh litter box that I just changed yesterday. I suppose I could forgive her after another hours or so though... heh.

never announce a time table to end hostilities...

347

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Tue, Mar 8, 2011 12:59:08pm

mmmmm nothing better than finding a german deli that makes their own sausages, sauer-kraut and potato salad. Just had two huge bratwurst, homemade sauerkraut and german potato salad for lunch.

348

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:00:20pm

re: #343 SanFranciscoZionist

Jews too. It just means 'God'. Like 'Gott', or 'Dieu', or 'Eru Iluvatar'.

Didn't know this. Not surprised obviously since after all Islam, Judaism, and Christianity have the same roots.

349

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:00:23pm

re: #347 Dreggas

mmm nothing better than finding a german deli that makes their own sausages, sauer-kraut and potato salad. Just had two huge bratwurst, homemade sauerkraut and german potato salad for lunch.

Please, could you stand down wind?

350

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:00:30pm

re: #347 Dreggas

mmm nothing better than finding a german deli that makes their own sausages, sauer-kraut and potato salad. Just had two huge bratwurst, homemade sauerkraut and german potato salad for lunch.

Will they let you watch the sausage being made?

351

reine.de.tout Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:01:32pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

OT: Gah—break time!

I started off the morning by stepping in cold cat vomit before I had my first cup of coffee.

Then, before I could stop her, my other cat peed in a box I left on the floor which in turn—when I picked it up to take it to the trash— then leaked a 10-foot trail of cat piss across my living room carpet. We are now not on speaking terms. It is a battle of the wills—she wants me to make eye contact and forgive her. I will NOT, at least not for another 12 hours.

Then UPS suddenly decided that the package they were supposed to deliver today, which had already been put on the truck, had an illegible address label. Now it's been rescheduled for tomorrow, so I'll have to spend another day sitting around waiting for it. I want to know how in the hell it made it all the way onto the truck in Newark if they couldn't read the damned label.

To top it all off, I just spent 30 minutes trying to figure out why a web site menu I'm working on refused to point to the correct URLs on some pages. Um, that would be because I didn't include the freaking file in the header that would tell them where to look. *headdesk, headdesk, headdesk*

*sniffles, looks around room for sympathy*

Awwwww.
{{{{cl}}}}} hugs to you.

I always loved getting up on those days when all the animals seemed to have an urgent need to soil the floor/carpet/what the heck ever.

Now my biggest problem is that one of my cats sticks her head over the litter box, decides well, she must be there, and proceeds to poop on the FLOOR because her behind is NOT in the litter box. LOL. The joys of pet-parenting.

352

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:01:32pm

re: #350 wrenchwench

Will they let you watch the sausage being made?

Women do like watching sausages grow.

353

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:01:55pm

re: #346 brookly red

never announce a time table to end hostilities...

Oh, but you should see the melodrama over being ignored.

354

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:01:59pm

re: #347 Dreggas

mmm nothing better than finding a german deli that makes their own sausages, sauer-kraut and potato salad. Just had two huge bratwurst, homemade sauerkraut and german potato salad for lunch.

Braggert! Seriously though that sounds really good. There's a lovely deli about a fifteen walk from my apartment that is just awesome. Had a sub Friday that had pastrami, corned beef, Swiss cheese, coleslaw, and Russian dressing. They have excellent gyros too. Place is a little pricey and doesn't fall under my campus meal plan obviously but it is a nice treat.

355

reine.de.tout Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:02:33pm

re: #344 CuriousLurker

The temptation is strong, but she knows she's not supposed to do that and she has a nice fresh litter box that I just changed yesterday. I suppose I could forgive her after another hours or so though... heh.

But you know - the cat doesn't really care if you're made at her or not.

356

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:02:36pm

re: #351 reine.de.tout

Awww.
{{{cl}}} hugs to you.

I always loved getting up on those days when all the animals seemed to have an urgent need to soil the floor/carpet/what the heck ever.

Now my biggest problem is that one of my cats sticks her head over the litter box, decides well, she must be there, and proceeds to poop on the FLOOR because her behind is NOT in the litter box. LOL. The joys of pet-parenting.

Well, cat boxes are all icky.

357

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:02:42pm

re: #353 CuriousLurker

Oh, but you should see the melodrama over being ignored.

/yes, now just imagine that in a size 4...

358

TedStriker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:03:05pm

re: #60 Buck

You don't know that he was "keen to take their call". Other than the fact that they have business interests in his state, and they gave $43,000 which is a small amount of the total he raised. (as opposed to the $200,000 unions gave his opposition.)

But, please don't let me stop you from making stuff up.

Walker was keener to take the fake Koch's call than he was or is to take them from either the public employees' unions or the Democratic lawmakers. Compromise does not seem to be in his vocabulary...

359

reine.de.tout Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:03:31pm

re: #356 b_sharp

Well, cat boxes are all icky.

Oh, hecknonotinmyhouse! They are cleaned out daily.

360

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:04:02pm

re: #351 reine.de.tout

Awww.
{{{cl}}} hugs to you.

I always loved getting up on those days when all the animals seemed to have an urgent need to soil the floor/carpet/what the heck ever.

Now my biggest problem is that one of my cats sticks her head over the litter box, decides well, she must be there, and proceeds to poop on the FLOOR because her behind is NOT in the litter box. LOL. The joys of pet-parenting.

LOL, that's so funny (except for the part where you have to clean it up)! I love 'em to death but some days...

361

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:04:29pm

re: #348 HappyWarrior

Didn't know this. Not surprised obviously since after all Islam, Judaism, and Christianity have the same roots.

Well, the root is common to all the Semitic languages. In Hebrew, 'El' is generically 'god', and 'Elohim', the plural used as a singular, is used to refer to 'God' with a capital G.

Arabic-speaking Jews use 'Elohim', 'Adonai' and 'Allah', just as an Ashkenazi like myself will exclaim "Gottenyu!".

362

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:04:50pm

re: #356 b_sharp

Well, cat boxes are all icky.

back in the day before shredders I would use credit card statements as cat box liners... you want my account number? sure, go dig for it.

363

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:05:21pm

re: #348 HappyWarrior

Didn't know this. Not surprised obviously since after all Islam, Judaism, and Christianity have the same roots.

It's not about roots, it just means "God", so any monotheist (without relation to the Abrahamic tradition) can use it.

364

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:05:21pm

re: #359 reine.de.tout

Oh, hecknonotinmyhouse! They are cleaned out daily.

They got no style, they got no warm blankies, they got no soft pillows, and they got no fresh out of the dryer clothes. They icky.

365

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:05:22pm

re: #355 reine.de.tout

But you know - the cat doesn't really care if you're made at her or not.

Heh, yeah, it's more like "How DARE you ignore me."

366

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:06:23pm

re: #363 Sergey Romanov

It's not about roots, it just means "God", so any monotheist (without relation to the Abrahamic tradition) can use it.

Yeah, my mistake there. Guess my point is it amazes me that people freak out at the word "Allah" even though all it is Arabic for God.

367

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:06:39pm

re: #365 CuriousLurker

Heh, yeah, it's more like "How DARE you ignore me."

why do you think she peed in the box in the first place? it's a viscous cycle.

368

reine.de.tout Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:06:52pm

re: #364 b_sharp

They got no style, they got no warm blankies, they got no soft pillows, and they got no fresh out of the dryer clothes. They icky.

LOL.
Well, yes, you're right about that!

re: #365 CuriousLurker

Heh, yeah, it's more like "How DARE you ignore me."

Exactly.

369

HappyWarrior Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:06:59pm

re: #361 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, the root is common to all the Semitic languages. In Hebrew, 'El' is generically 'god', and 'Elohim', the plural used as a singular, is used to refer to 'God' with a capital G.

Arabic-speaking Jews use 'Elohim', 'Adonai' and 'Allah', just as an Ashkenazi like myself will exclaim "Gottenyu!".

Interesting stuff, did not know this.

370

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:07:20pm

re: #366 HappyWarrior

Yeah, my mistake there. Guess my point is it amazes me that people freak out at the word "Allah" even though all it is Arabic for God.

MandyManners comes to mind.

371

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:07:34pm

re: #367 brookly red

why do you think she peed in the box in the first place? it's a viscous cycle.

LOL, good point!

372

wrenchwench Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:08:05pm

re: #367 brookly red

why do you think she peed in the box in the first place? it's a viscous cycle.

Too viscous if it ran all over the floor. A lower viscosity would have been better.

373

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:08:44pm

re: #59 celticdragon

good post all around

374

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:08:44pm

re: #367 brookly red

why do you think she peed in the box in the first place? it's a viscous cycle.

It's called the molasses cycle.

375

brookly red Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:09:18pm

re: #372 wrenchwench

Too viscous if it ran all over the floor. A lower viscosity would have been better.

as soon as I hit post I knew someone would... I should have known it would be you.

376

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:10:06pm

re: #368 reine.de.tout

LOL.
Well, yes, you're right about that!

re: #365 CuriousLurker

Exactly.

I've been spending way too much time with my cat. I'm starting to think like him.

377

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:10:08pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

morning cat puke, I know it well -__-

378

theheat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:10:11pm

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

And zombies. Shamblers or runners - doesn't matter.

379

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:10:45pm

"But Mr. Huckabee is correct. The Kenyan view of the Mau Mau Revolution is quite different from the American view, which is generally, 'What is the Mau Mau Revolution?'"

380

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:10:56pm

re: #372 wrenchwench

Too viscous if it ran all over the floor. A lower viscosity would have been better.

I be fast, you be faster.

381

SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:12:14pm

re: #366 HappyWarrior

Yeah, my mistake there. Guess my point is it amazes me that people freak out at the word "Allah" even though all it is Arabic for God.

Throw that out into a nest of serious wingnuts and watch them go berserk. It's heresy, literally, as far as some folks are concerned.

382

theheat Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:13:43pm

re: #344 CuriousLurker

The temptation is strong, but she knows she's not supposed to do that and she has a nice fresh litter box that I just changed yesterday. I suppose I could forgive her after another hours or so though... heh.

Once you have a terrier, you'll gladly go back to cats.

Mine pukes because she eats ladybugs. Chokes them down like kibble. Then throws up everywhere. She doesn't listen, doesn't mind, doesn't care, and never gets tired. Every day is a new day with a terrier.

383

dragonfire1981 Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:17:49pm

Many Christians I know believe the Allah that Muslims worship is NOT the same god they do. They see Allah as a false deity or perhaps even some kind of demon.

On another note it bothers me the craziness of the Tea party has obscured the fact there are many decent reasonable non crazy Christians. Not everyone who follows Jesus is a tea partiers.

384

b_sharp Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:18:55pm

re: #382 theheat

Once you have a terrier, you'll gladly go back to cats.

Mine pukes because she eats ladybugs. Chokes them down like kibble. Then throws up everywhere. She doesn't listen, doesn't mind, doesn't care, and never gets tired. Every day is a new day with a terrier.

She would gladly re-live Groundhog Day each and every day no doubt.

385

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:20:20pm

re: #366 HappyWarrior

Yeah, my mistake there. Guess my point is it amazes me that people freak out at the word "Allah" even though all it is Arabic for God.

SFZ & Sergey are correct, as usual. The only thing I would add is that in Arabic the word Allah is very specific in that it refers only to the "one" (absolutely singular, unique monotheistic) God. Much like when people write God vs. god (where the lowercase version may represent some other deity.

Some Muslims will insist on using the term Allah so as to differentiate it from the Trinity and/or references to Jesus as god.

386

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:21:02pm

re: #382 theheat

Once you have a terrier, you'll gladly go back to cats.

Mine pukes because she eats ladybugs. Chokes them down like kibble. Then throws up everywhere. She doesn't listen, doesn't mind, doesn't care, and never gets tired. Every day is a new day with a terrier.

Ha! That's too funny.

387

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:21:21pm

re: #381 SanFranciscoZionist

Throw that out into a nest of serious wingnuts and watch them go berserk. It's heresy, literally, as far as some folks are concerned.

In this respect I love Russian merchant Afanasij Nikitin's chronicle of his travels to India and Persia in 15th century. There's some speculation that he converted to Islam, fueled in part by the fact that the last page of his chronicle has a phonetic spelling (in Cyrillic) of the Arabic/Muslim names of God (what follows is a translation, it really is Arabic in original):

[Link: tangentialia.wordpress.com...]

With God’s mercy, I crossed the three seas. The rest, God knows, Allah the Protector judges. Amen! Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim. Allah-u-akbar, good God, good Lord. Jesus the Spirit of God, peace to you. God is great. There is no God but God. God the Provident. Praise the Lord, thanks be to God All-Conquering. In the name of God the Compassionate, the Merciful. It is God, other than whom there is no God, who knows all that is secret and manifest. He is Merciful, Compassionate. There is no God but God. He is King, Holiness, Peace, Saviour, Judge of Good and Evil, Almighty, the Healer, the Exalted, the Creator, the Designer, the Releaser of Sin, Punisher, Solver of all problems, the Nourisher, Triumphant, Omniscient, the Restorer, the Protector, the Ennobler, the Merciful, the Punisher of Sin, All-hearing, All-seeing, the Righteous, the Just, the Good.

Of course, the issue is debated because merely listing God's name and referring to him as Allah by itself does not necessarily prove the conversion (though there are other signs of at least some heterodox/syncretic views).

388

CuriousLurker Tue, Mar 8, 2011 1:23:01pm

re: #383 dragonfire1981

Many Christians I know believe the Allah that Muslims worship is NOT the same god they do. They see Allah as a false deity or perhaps even some kind of demon.

I've seen some Christian sites that claim Allah refers to an old Arabian moon god or some such thing. That may be partly where it comes from.

389

Fozzie Bear Tue, Mar 8, 2011 2:13:13pm

re: #243 recusancy

This is what Soros said:

This seems like a very reasonable statement. Why is Soros demonized again?

390

jea62 Tue, Mar 8, 2011 2:50:34pm

Yet again, scumbag O'Keefe uses a manufactured video for propaganda.

Check the time stamp and index number. They jump all over the place.

Why is he SO afraid to release unedited video? Surely these horrible organizations woulsd be even more exposed if he did.

Or his entire manufactured narrative would fall apart.

391

Buck Tue, Mar 8, 2011 4:37:54pm

re: #389 Fozzie Bear

This seems like a very reasonable statement. Why is Soros demonized again?

You think that Israel is a stumbling block for the spread of democracy in the Middle East? Really?

392

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Mar 8, 2011 4:51:10pm

re: #390 jea62

Yet again, scumbag O'Keefe uses a manufactured video for propaganda.

Check the time stamp and index number. They jump all over the place.

Why is he SO afraid to release unedited video? Surely these horrible organizations woulsd be even more exposed if he did.

Or his entire manufactured narrative would fall apart.

He actually did release the 2hr video.

393

[deleted] Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:21:21am

394

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 9, 2011 8:50:21am

re: #391 Buck

You think that Israel is a stumbling block for the spread of democracy in the Middle East? Really?

No, I don't. Then again, neither does Soros. Did you even read the quote up above?

Spy Mode Auto

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

James O’Keefe Goes After Another Right Wing Target: NPR

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud