NPR CEO Vivian Schiller Resigns, GOP Still Vowing to Defund

Enemies redouble their efforts

PoliticsMarch 2011 • Views: 25,773

Today NPR CEO Vivian Schiller has resigned, in what looks like a knee-jerk reaction to right wing smears against the organization.

But if NPR thinks this will do anything to stop the Republican Party’s raging attempt to destroy them, they’re sadly mistaken. Eric Cantor announced today that the wrecking crew is still going ahead:

“Our concern is not about any one person at NPR, rather it’s about millions of taxpayers. NPR has admitted that they don’t need taxpayer subsidies to thrive, and at a time when the government is borrowing 40 cents of every dollar that it spends, we certainly agree with them.”

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97 comments

SpaceJesus Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:27:20am

resigned over what? a statement of facts?

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:30:28am

So these are the jobs I heard so much about huh. Listen maybe NPR is better off not receiving federal funds but this is just a stupid political stunt to satisfy the base. I seriously hope there is a huge backlash against the GOP this year at the state level and then next for Congress.

Kronocide Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:31:02am

This article posted by KT the other day is prescient.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:32:03am

The GOP is such a goddamn joke when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Seriously, NPR funding? That's the big goddamn issue right now? With US companies offshoring jobs and being given tax breaks for it, state budges imploding, cost overruns in the military, subsidies for oil and gas companies, they're focusing on the tiny fraction of a percentage NPR gets?

It's a joke. Even their supporters know it's not for real. It's kayfabe at this point.

nines09 Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:32:26am

JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RogueOne Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:33:20am

It's the curse of Juan Williams:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

David Folkenflik: Well the board of directors of NPR have put out a statement saying they accepted Vivian Schiller's resignation. I'm told by sources that she was forced out — that this was, I guess, the final shoe dropping, you could say.
.....
And those recent episodes began with the firing of Juan Williams last fall.

In a sense, very much, yes. Juan Williams made what are now some famous comments on Fox News Channel, where he was also a contributor, talking about fearing people in Muslim garb on airlines. NPR executives including [Vivian] Schiller but also then-Senior Vice President for News Ellen Weiss, forced out Juan as an analyst, saying that that's not the kind of comments — it was one in a series of events in which he was making inappropriate comments. Uh, that blew up, as you may recall. It ultimately cost Ellen Weiss her job. ...

thecommodore Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:33:41am

God DAMN!

When is someone actually going to fight back against these sons of bitches??? It's one thing after another

The guy in the O'Keefe video wasn't a journalist. He was a fundraiser, speaking off the record (note the comment about him "taking off his NPR hat"). It was his opinion, which in my view has a lot of truth.

It sickens me to see this kind of groveling!

Merryweather Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:34:00am

Chalk up another 'win' for O'Keefe, yet again over a complete nothingburger. I feel sick.

The knee-jerk reactions he gets without fail are exactly why he's able to come back again and again and claim more scalps of good people who've done little or nothing wrong.

Four More Tears Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:37:48am

Awesome. Now if we can just get rid of the NEA America will be on the right track.

wrenchwench Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:39:40am

re: #4 Obdicut

It's a joke. Even their supporters know it's not for real. It's kayfabe at this point.

A new word (to me). Thanks! Really fits here, and will be useful in the future.

iossarian Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:39:41am

re: #7 thecommodore

Unfortunately, you don't fight back against four year olds.

You just have to keep patiently plugging away, and remember that in time, we'll be looking back and laughing at these people in much the same way that we now laugh at the idiots that supported segregation or opposed a woman's right to vote.

I know that I'm repeating myself here, but sometimes you just need to grit your teeth and get on with it.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:40:21am

re: #9 JasonA

And poison control centers-- which actually save the US money in terms of stopping people from calling 911 or going to the emergency room. Got to get ride of that budget.

I swear, it's like the GOP has never heard of the idea that sometimes you fix a leak in a roof and it costs less than replacing all your furniture when it caves in.

Lidane Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:43:12am

I would love to see the day when Republicans go after bloated, obsolete weapons systems and defense contracts that waste billions. Or oil and corporate subsidies.

These people are a goddamn joke. And NPR are cowards for giving in like this.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:46:43am

I've tried my best to understand where the GOP and their representatives are coming from and I just can't. As I said above, I really hope there is a huge backlash to this crap. They need to focus on real issues not pandering to their base.

Interesting Times Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:47:37am

re: #11 iossarian

Unfortunately, you don't fight back against four year olds.

Did you ever see the Twilight Zone episode about a monster terrorizing a town - the "monster" being a six-year-old boy who had God-like powers to do whatever he wanted? That's the GOP in a nutshell (who might as well have God-like powers as long as everyone rolls over and lets them get away with this crap).

abbyadams Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:49:51am

re: #1 SpaceJesus

One tweet that came across my feed: Next, NASA Chief resigns for calling space "big".

iossarian Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:50:03am

re: #13 Lidane

These people are a goddamn joke.

This is certainly true.

And NPR are cowards for giving in like this.

I'm less sure about this. Obviously it's a setback in the short term. On the other hand, in the long term it does become part of the ever-increasing evidence that liberal media outlets are reality-based and respond to criticism even when unwarranted, whereas conservative outlets are basically hermetic fantasy worlds. Progressivism is all about inching forwards.

BTW, please believe me when I say that I feel this gut punch as much as anyone.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:54:46am

re: #8 Merryweather

Chalk up another 'win' for O'Keefe, yet again over a complete nothingburger. I feel sick.

The knee-jerk reactions he gets without fail are exactly why he's able to come back again and again and claim more scalps of good people who've done little or nothing wrong.

It's what he does. O'Keefe is a slimy piece of shit. I said this yesterday but James O'Keefe is a loser. He makes his existence off of ruining the lives of others. It would be ironic as hell if someone ruined him in the same way he and his mentor Breitbart have. And frankly I wouldn't shed any tears. The guy is a dipshit.

Simply Sarah Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:55:07am

re: #12 Obdicut

And poison control centers-- which actually save the US money in terms of stopping people from calling 911 or going to the emergency room. Got to get ride of that budget.

I swear, it's like the GOP has never heard of the idea that sometimes you fix a leak in a roof and it costs less than replacing all your furniture when it caves in.

No, no. The GOP solution is to just get rid of the roof.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:56:33am

re: #19 Simply Sarah

Yeah. It's like when some regulatory agency fails to do it's job, the GOP response is that we should get rid of the agency, rather than, you know, improve it.

Stanghazi Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:56:59am

Melt down below.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:57:23am

re: #19 Simply Sarah

No, no. The GOP solution is to just get rid of the roof.

You know who had a roof, Marx, there roofs are banned now.

prairiefire Wed, Mar 9, 2011 10:58:54am

re: #21 Stanley Sea

Melt down below.

Definitely.

Jeff In Ohio Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:02:01am

When face with confrontation, the right fights back and often with dishonesty. The left bends over and says fuck me again, it didn't hurt enough the first time.

prairiefire Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:02:46am

OT ~ David Broder dIed:[Link: www.frumforum.com...]

iossarian Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:02:53am

re: #22 HappyWarrior

You know who had a roof, Marx, there roofs are banned now.

If only it were so simple.

ME: "You know who else used to talk? Marx."

THEM: ... (crickets)

Lidane Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:09:04am

re: #19 Simply Sarah

No, no. The GOP solution is to just get rid of the roof.

The GOP solution is to burn the house down, then blame the liberal media for calling it arson.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:11:02am

Meanwhile, the antisemitism in the GOP is getting more and more open:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

and I don't hear jack shit said or done about it from the national GOP.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:13:06am

re: #28 Obdicut

Meanwhile, the antisemitism in the GOP is getting more and more open:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

and I don't hear jack shit said or done about it from the national GOP.

With the rising influence of Ron Paul libertarianism, it's no surprise that right wing antisemitism is also becoming more visible.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:14:09am

re: #28 Obdicut

Meanwhile, the antisemitism in the GOP is getting more and more open:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

and I don't hear jack shit said or done about it from the national GOP.

He's only sorry because he's been nailed. I think there was a Republican candidate in Arkansas who made some pretty anti-Semitic- comments about Senator Schumer too the past year if I am not mistaken.

Lidane Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:17:44am

More right wing children left behind -- an FB friend of mine from high school posted last night bitching about the recent SCOTUS opinion about the WBC protests at military funerals. Not only did she suggest that this decision happened because a Democrat was in office (ignoring the fact that four of the five conservative/Republican justices were in the majority and that the very Republican Chief Justice wrote the opinion), but one guy was apoplectic, wondering how we elected such dumb officials in the first place that a decision like this could be made at all. He also ranted about Communistic language.

Say what? Since when is SCOTUS elected? And given that all of the Republican justices except Alito voted for the verdict, how would a Republican POTUS change anything?

_RememberTonyC Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:18:05am

this is an interesting story for sure. If NPR (and PBS) are defunded, the stations in the respective networks may become more valuable as commercial operations that sell advertising and make a profit. If this happens, it would be a mistake to pull the funding plug immediately because the damage to the stations and the employees would be major. But if Congress phases out the funding over the course of 5 or 10 years and allows the stations to start selling advertising immediately, it would give the stations and networks time to get their new business models up and running. While I see NPR and PBS as valuable sources of programming that should remain viable, the idea of commercializing them is not the end of the world as long as it is done in a deliberate fashion that allows the new business model to become established before the money from the government disappears.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:18:15am

re: #30 HappyWarrior

His excuse makes no sense, either. He's saying it wasn't about faith, but he very clearly was identifying Christian vs. Jewish.

What a sad crap.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:19:18am

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

the idea of commercializing them is not the end of the world as long as it is done in a deliberate fashion that allows the new business model to become established before the money from the government disappears.

That's not what this is about, though. The GOP is just attacking NPR for being NPR, basically.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:20:27am

re: #30 HappyWarrior

He's only sorry because he's been nailed. I think there was a Republican candidate in Arkansas who made some pretty anti-Semitic- comments about Senator Schumer too the past year if I am not mistaken.

It does worry me. I don't recall seeing quite this much ugly shit from legitimate sources before.

_RememberTonyC Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:23:21am

re: #34 Obdicut

That's not what this is about, though. The GOP is just attacking NPR for being NPR, basically.

I understand that. But if the GOP really tries to defund the organization, the Dems do have a chance to affect the debate by suggesting a version of what I described.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:24:12am

Well, I was productive for awhile. Now, I'm back for a visit.

What's happened?

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:24:32am

re: #31 Lidane

More right wing children left behind -- an FB friend of mine from high school posted last night bitching about the recent SCOTUS opinion about the WBC protests at military funerals. Not only did she suggest that this decision happened because a Democrat was in office (ignoring the fact that four of the five conservative/Republican justices were in the majority and that the very Republican Chief Justice wrote the opinion), but one guy was apoplectic, wondering how we elected such dumb officials in the first place that a decision like this could be made at all. He also ranted about Communistic language.

Say what? Since when is SCOTUS elected? And given that all of the Republican justices except Alito voted for the verdict, how would a Republican POTUS change anything?

Oh for the Lord's sake. This is an enormously conservative court. And in the opinion of this liberal, they made the right call.

No one likes the Westboro 'Baptist' 'Church', but there is no clause in the First Amendment that says that it doesn't apply if absolutely everyone hates your ass.

As for the 'elected' bit...oh Lord.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:25:18am

re: #4 Obdicut

The GOP is such a goddamn joke when it comes to fiscal responsibility. Seriously, NPR funding? That's the big goddamn issue right now? With US companies offshoring jobs and being given tax breaks for it, state budges imploding, cost overruns in the military, subsidies for oil and gas companies, they're focusing on the tiny fraction of a percentage NPR gets?

It's a joke. Even their supporters know it's not for real. It's kayfabe at this point.

Big difference between NPR and Planned Parenthood. One doesn't need funding the other depends on it.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:26:44am

re: #32 _RememberTonyC

But I think one of the reasons why NPR is so unique in American journalism is because they don't have to rely on advertising to survive. The ad-based business model is what drives the rest of the media's short-attention-span shallow news coverage. It's a simple equation: the more eyeballs you get, the more money the company makes.

NPR has the luxury of being able to get much deeper into subjects, because they're not in that highly competitive game. If they switch to an ad-based model, I fear that would be the beginning of the end of one of the best sources of journalism in the US.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:28:06am

re: #31 Lidane

More right wing children left behind -- an FB friend of mine from high school posted last night bitching about the recent SCOTUS opinion about the WBC protests at military funerals. Not only did she suggest that this decision happened because a Democrat was in office (ignoring the fact that four of the five conservative/Republican justices were in the majority and that the very Republican Chief Justice wrote the opinion), but one guy was apoplectic, wondering how we elected such dumb officials in the first place that a decision like this could be made at all. He also ranted about Communistic language.

Say what? Since when is SCOTUS elected? And given that all of the Republican justices except Alito voted for the verdict, how would a Republican POTUS change anything?

Scalia and Thomas are going to be pissed when they find out they're elected Communists and their presence on the court is the result of Obama heh. As SFZ just pointed out, no one likes the WBC but they have the right to do what they do. I feel terrible for Mr. Snyder, the plantiff in this case, he first lost his son in Iraq and he had to see those jerks protest his funeral. However, free speech covers unpopular speech as well and that is what people need to understand about the ruling the court made. I am not a big fan of the Roberts Court but he got it right here.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:28:25am

re: #11 iossarian

Unfortunately, you don't fight back against four year olds.

You just have to keep patiently plugging away, and remember that in time, we'll be looking back and laughing at these people in much the same way that we now laugh at the idiots that supported segregation or opposed a woman's right to vote.

I know that I'm repeating myself here, but sometimes you just need to grit your teeth and get on with it.

My paranoid side is beginning to think we will be revisiting women's right to vote by 2016.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:29:32am

re: #14 HappyWarrior

I've tried my best to understand where the GOP and their representatives are coming from and I just can't. As I said above, I really hope there is a huge backlash to this crap. They need to focus on real issues not pandering to their base.

They think all this will get a GOP POTUS in 2012.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:29:37am

re: #42 ggt

My paranoid side is beginning to think we will be revisiting women's right to vote by 2016.

Well you see some that already question 18-21 year olds having the right to vote because "they only vote on their feelings." Those were the exact words of that dipshit GOP official in New Hampshire. I know so many people at that age who are better informed on the issues than many adults.

harlequinade Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:30:35am

re: #40 Charles

But I think one of the reasons why NPR is so unique in American journalism is because they don't have to rely on advertising to survive. The ad-based business model is what drives the rest of the media's short-attention-span shallow news coverage. It's a simple equation: the more eyeballs you get, the more money the company makes.

NPR has the luxury of being able to get much deeper into subjects, because they're not in that highly competitive game. If they switch to an ad-based model, I fear that would be the beginning of the end of one of the best sources of journalism in the US.

This.

In the UK, a documentary show World In Action managed to royally piss Thatcher off which resulted, pretty much in this.

That split up our third channel and encouraged profit over content. As a result, documentaries all but disappeared because ratings weren't converted into advertising.

thecommodore Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:32:28am

re: #11 iossarian

Unfortunately, you don't fight back against four year olds.

You just have to keep patiently plugging away, and remember that in time, we'll be looking back and laughing at these people in much the same way that we now laugh at the idiots that supported segregation or opposed a woman's right to vote.

You've just described the teabaggers and dittoheads who won in November. These people are winning! If Obama and the Dems had fought back against their tripe - death panels, Obama is a Muslim, the birthers, and all the crap Beck was putting out, the way the did against McCain and Palin in 2008, there's no way they would have picked up 63 seats.

Obdicut Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:32:30am

Here's some good talk from Schumer:

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Schumer noted that the GOP's plan for spending cuts does almost nothing to reduce the deficit -- a fact that runs at cross-purposes to their insistence that the deficit must be reduced.

"Right now a very small, very intense ideological tail is wagging the dog over in the House of Representatives," Schumer said. "Their fervor for spending cuts is not grounded in deficit reduction at all. Instead the far right wing has deliberately confused two separate issues. They've conflated reducing the deficit -- which is not their true priority -- with cutting government -- which is."

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:32:59am

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Scalia and Thomas are going to be pissed when they find out they're elected Communists and their presence on the court is the result of Obama heh. As SFZ just pointed out, no one likes the WBC but they have the right to do what they do. I feel terrible for Mr. Snyder, the plantiff in this case, he first lost his son in Iraq and he had to see those jerks protest his funeral. However, free speech covers unpopular speech as well and that is what people need to understand about the ruling the court made. I am not a big fan of the Roberts Court but he got it right here.

I feel like hell for Snyder, and everyone else these assholes have attacked in the worst days of their lives. I support finding legal ways to keep the WBC away from their targets.

But this ruling didn't happen because the Roberts court is a bunch of commies.

simoom Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:33:17am

re: #6 RogueOne

It's the curse of Juan Williams:

[Link: www.npr.org...]

He was on Hannity last night, trashing NPR with Hannity and calling for it to be defunded:

HANNITY: One question that you probably -- didn't it sound a lot like Barack Obama? Bitter people, clinging to -- wait a minute -- it did sound a lot like.
WILLIAMS: It's true. I'm not arguing that. I'm not going to argue that. I mean, that's the same elitist center that Obama expressed about people in Pennsylvania. I think he was on the West Coast when he did it. If that's your point -- point taken.

HANNITY: Frankly, why you don't sue NPR is beyond me and maybe over time --

WILLIAMS: You have suggested this to me repeatedly. And I keep telling you, I just feel like, you know, I would become emotionally involved and you told me in all honesty, as my friend, you said to me right from the start, and I must say to everybody when this started Sean Hannity is the one that calmed me down and came and said to me, "I think you are down, something is wrong with you tonight, what is going on?" You are the first person I had told I had been fired.

But anyway, I don't want my spirit, my emotions, to get locked up into some fray with those people. You know what? You can see who they are tonight Sean, in the way that you have -- may have not seen before.

...

HANNITY: It is time to take away money for National Public Broadcasting. You agree Juan Williams?

WILLIAMS: You probably think I disagree, I agree. Because now, look, it's obvious exactly the way they think. And they are locked into their liberal orthodoxy, they think they are better. The New York Times takes advertising, the Washington Post, takes advertising, Fox News takes advertising. We do our jobs. Let them go out there and satisfy an audience and convince advertisers to come and pay the bills.

HANNITY: Juan, my advice as a friend, I told you privately, I say it publicly, I would hire the best lawyer in D.C., I would sue them and stay emotionally detached. Let the lawyer do the work.

WILLIAMS: Thanks for being with me, Sean, on this one.

HANNITY: This is slander. And they slandered you once, now they slandered you again. And I think it is time -- you have every legal remedy I think available too. But Juan, good to see you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, Sean.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:35:24am

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Well you see some that already question 18-21 year olds having the right to vote because "they only vote on their feelings." Those were the exact words of that dipshit GOP official in New Hampshire. I know so many people at that age who are better informed on the issues than many adults.

While I understand the sentiments, I can't agree with that idea. Anyone who is old enough carry a gun in defense of this country has the right to vote (and buy alcohol) IMHO.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:35:51am

re: #49 simoom

He was on Hannity last night, trashing NPR with Hannity and calling for it to be defunded:

I wonder if Juan ever offends or upsets his new bosses at Fox where his good friend Sean will be.

Lidane Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:36:02am

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Scalia and Thomas are going to be pissed when they find out they're elected Communists and their presence on the court is the result of Obama heh.

Not only their presence on the Court, but their decision in this case, too. Because a Republican president would have convinced all of the Republican justices to vote against the WBC because it's a way to show solidarity with the troops. Or something.

As SFZ just pointed out, no one likes the WBC but they have the right to do what they do. I feel terrible for Mr. Snyder, the plantiff in this case, he first lost his son in Iraq and he had to see those jerks protest his funeral.

Well, yeah. I feel terrible for the family that they had to endure the WBC freaks at their son's funeral. It must have been awful.

However, free speech covers unpopular speech as well and that is what people need to understand about the ruling the court made. I am not a big fan of the Roberts Court but he got it right here.

True. I never did get an answer to my question. I asked what good the First Amendment was if it only applied to speech we like. I loathe the WBC, and the Roberts court is way to my right, but they got it here, like it or not.

thecommodore Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:36:22am

re: #49 simoom

Juan Williams became even more of a right wing tool after he was sacked by NPR.

Slander?

Give me a break!!!

Lidane Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:36:29am

re: #43 ggt

They think all this will get a GOP POTUS in 2012.

They're in for a rude awakening, especially if they nominate a teabagger.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:37:56am

And by the way, I also think it's quite possible that if NPR goes to an ad-based model, they simply wouldn't be able to survive with their current programming.

This is exactly what the right wing wants to see happen, because the Republican Party is opposed to a knowledgeable, well-informed populace.

thecommodore Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:38:14am

re: #54 Lidane

They're in for a rude awakening, especially if they nominate a teabagger.

I'm not so sure about that. If you think the Koch brothers took over the election last November, you haven't seen anything yet.

Look for Swiftboating Volume 2.0 - and Obama's anemic response will make a GOP President almost a certainty.

treasured people Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:38:18am

re: #28 Obdicut

Interesting what you say about anti-semitism and the GOP although I think that the world's oldest hatred crosses all political lines.
This week on college campuses around the world, and across the USA, the annual Israel anti-apartheid festival is in full swing. Israel is the least apartheid nation in the Middle East, perhaps in the world, where 10% of Knesset (Parliament) members are Arabs. Hundreds of Arabs work as doctors and nurses in Israeli hospitals and thousands of Arabs work with Israelis in all sorts of businesses, including hi-tech enterprises. Israeli universities are full of Arab students. By the same token, if a Jew takes a wrong turn in Judea or Samaria (so-called West Bank) and mistakenly ends up in an Arab village, he is likely to be murdered. It is illegal for a Jew to set foot in Saudi Arabia and both Jews and Christians are banned from Muslim holy sites. But it has become highly fashionable to call Israel (and Jews) discriminatory and this prejudice is common to all political groups. The truth has simply been stood on its head.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:39:43am

re: #57 treasured people

Interesting what you say about anti-semitism and the GOP although I think that the world's oldest hatred crosses all political lines.
This week on college campuses around the world, and across the USA, the annual Israel anti-apartheid festival is in full swing. Israel is the least apartheid nation in the Middle East, perhaps in the world, where 10% of Knesset (Parliament) members are Arabs. Hundreds of Arabs work as doctors and nurses in Israeli hospitals and thousands of Arabs work with Israelis in all sorts of businesses, including hi-tech enterprises. Israeli universities are full of Arab students. By the same token, if a Jew takes a wrong turn in Judea or Samaria (so-called West Bank) and mistakenly ends up in an Arab village, he is likely to be murdered. It is illegal for a Jew to set foot in Saudi Arabia and both Jews and Christians are banned from Muslim holy sites. But it has become highly fashionable to call Israel (and Jews) discriminatory and this prejudice is common to all political groups. The truth has simply been stood on its head.

Welcome to our Brave New World! Still trying to recognize it and negotiate it myself.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:39:43am

re: #50 ggt

While I understand the sentiments, I can't agree with that idea. Anyone who is old enough carry a gun in defense of this country has the right to vote (and buy alcohol) IMHO.

I think it was extremely patronizing to be truthful with you. The guy would have no problem if younger voters voted for his party mostly and the insuiutation that only liberal voters vote with their feelings is nonsense considering that many who vote for the GOP because of their stances on hot button cultural issues like gay marriage which many say played a role in President Bush's re-election seven years ago. Plus 18-21 year olds do have life experiences. As you point out, man of them carry guns in defense of this country. I actually support lowering the drinking age to 18. It's not a popular view but I think it should. If you can serve your country, you can have a beer I think.

Kragar Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:39:48am

re: #55 Charles

And by the way, I also think it's quite possible that if NPR goes to an ad-based model, they simply wouldn't be able to survive with their current programming.

This is exactly what the right wing wants to see happen, because the Republican Party is opposed to a knowledgeable, well-informed populace.

But everyone can afford a Bible surely? What else do you need?
/

iossarian Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:40:22am

re: #46 thecommodore

You've just described the teabaggers and dittoheads who won in November. These people are winning! If Obama and the Dems had fought back against their tripe - death panels, Obama is a Muslim, the birthers, and all the crap Beck was putting out, the way the did against McCain and Palin in 2008, there's no way they would have picked up 63 seats.

I disagree. Those politicians were elected by people across the US who have a very different view of the world than you or I. The "tripe" may reinforce that view, but it only gets peddled with the advance knowledge that it will be well received. Now, possibly those 63 seats might have been 50 or 45 with better electoral tactics. But to think that you could have reversed that trend in the short term is not, in my view, realistic.

I believe that the only way to truly win is to conduct the battle against these toxic views on the ground, every day, in the countless small interactions we have with people. Of course, Obama could try to "fight back" against them, but are these people really going to change their minds based on anything he says (and which will in any case be reported to them in a highly distorted form)?

FWIW I think that LGF, and the shift in views on here that has been seen over the past 5 years or so, is evidence that this approach works. It's hard work, but it works.

Lidane Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:40:36am

re: #56 thecommodore

I'm not so sure about that. If you think the Koch brothers took over the election last November, you haven't seen anything yet.

Look for Swiftboating Volume 2.0 - and Obama's anemic response will make a GOP President almost a certainty.

Nominate Palin then see what happens. Even the Koch brothers won't be able to turn her into POTUS.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:41:23am

To recap:
NPR: ~$400,000,000
Deficit: ~$1,600,000,000,000

Or,

cutting NPR funding will reduce the deficit by:

0.025%

(unless I have no idea how to work a calculator, which is not impossible)

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:42:52am

re: #59 HappyWarrior

I think it was extremely patronizing to be truthful with you. The guy would have no problem if younger voters voted for his party mostly and the insuiutation that only liberal voters vote with their feelings is nonsense considering that many who vote for the GOP because of their stances on hot button cultural issues like gay marriage which many say played a role in President Bush's re-election seven years ago. Plus 18-21 year olds do have life experiences. As you point out, man of them carry guns in defense of this country. I actually support lowering the drinking age to 18. It's not a popular view but I think it should. If you can serve your country, you can have a beer I think.

I'm not a drinker, but I've always thought that denying a soldier a beer based on his age has to be the stupidest rule ever created.

If nothing else, the law should have a caveat, that under 21 with a soldier's ID can purchase alcohol.

It also think it's stupid that it's easier to buy a joint than a beer for 18 yo's in some places.

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:44:44am

re: #63 negativ

To recap:
NPR: ~$400,000,000
Deficit: ~$1,600,000,000,000

Or,

cutting NPR funding will reduce the deficit by:

0.025%

(unless I have no idea how to work a calculator, which is not impossible)

That's right - this isn't a budget issue, very obviously. It's an ideological issue.

_RememberTonyC Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:44:56am

re: #40 Charles

But I think one of the reasons why NPR is so unique in American journalism is because they don't have to rely on advertising to survive. The ad-based business model is what drives the rest of the media's short-attention-span shallow news coverage. It's a simple equation: the more eyeballs you get, the more money the company makes.

NPR has the luxury of being able to get much deeper into subjects, because they're not in that highly competitive game. If they switch to an ad-based model, I fear that would be the beginning of the end of one of the best sources of journalism in the US.

Fair points all. I would be happy to see things left as they are. But there are still advertisers out there that want to be associated with a certain type of programming. And the fact is that even under the current system, shows on PBS are funded by grants from large corporations, which is a sort of "stealth" advertising.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:45:17am

And my tinfoil hat may need adjusting, but I'm really getting the feeling that all these budgetary shenanigans have more to do with social engineering than with fiscal policy.

See Maddow on "Disaster capitalism":

MSNBC Video

and

MSNBC Video

Charles Johnson Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:47:03am

re: #67 negativ

I was just going to post those vids. It's an interesting argument.

simoom Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:48:10am

re: #51 HappyWarrior

I wonder if Juan ever offends or upsets his new bosses at Fox where his good friend Sean will be.

I'd imagine it was that his bosses at Fox were extremely happy with the role he was playing during his frequent O'Reilly, Hannity and Van Susteran appearances (which NPR execs asked him to refrain from but he refused), where he would be introduced as Senior NPR Correspondent (even though they asked him repeatedly to stop doing that), that had a good deal to do with his ultimate firing. He was trading in NPR's brand, and using that to add credibility to the arguments of whatever host's show he was on. "Bill, you may think I'd disagree, but you're totally in the right this time." "See folks? When even NPR liberal Juan Williams agrees with me I must be on to something!"

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:48:55am

re: #50 ggt

While I understand the sentiments, I can't agree with that idea. Anyone who is old enough carry a gun in defense of this country has the right to vote (and buy alcohol) IMHO.

I also venture to guess that the people who want to disenfranchise 18 year olds because they aren't capable of making an informed adult decision overlap with the people who want to try ten-year-olds as adults.

lawhawk Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:49:06am

PBS was also apparently contacted in the same fashion as NPR, but they expressed concerns over the bogus Islamic group set up by O'Keefe:

PBS spokeswoman Anne Bentley said Wednesday that they had an initial conversation with the Muslim Education Action Center but had concerns about the group. She says a PBS executive was contacted, but when PBS couldn't confirm the organization's credentials, they halted discussions.

PBS handled this exactly right - know who you're talking to before you talk.

garhighway Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:49:23am

re: #68 Charles

I was just going to post those vids. It's an interesting argument.

She doesn't miss much.

Kragar Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:50:16am

Suspected White supremacist arressted in connection to Spokane attempted bombing

The FBI has made an arrest in connection with the attempted bombing along the route of the annual Martin Luther King Jr. Day parade in downtown Spokane.

An FBI source in Washington, D.C., said one man was arrested Wednesday outside a home near Colville, Stevens County. Agents, including a bomb expert from Quantico, Va., were preparing to search a house where others associated with the suspect were living, the source said.

The suspect is believed to be affiliated with white supremacists, the source said.

Spocomptonite Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:50:22am

I can't believe Republicans are actually waging an ideological war under the guise of fiscal responsibility. ACORN, Planned Parenthood, Teacher's Unions, NPR, Poison Control, etc constitute insignificant amounts of expenditures, but significant amount of conflict with their ideology.

No, actually, I can believe it. The part I can't believe is that they are getting away with it.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:50:25am

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

I also venture to guess that the people who want to disenfranchise 18 year olds because they aren't capable of making an informed adult decision overlap with the people who want to try ten-year-olds as adults.

It's the same people who shout murderer at women who get abortions but yet are the strongest supporters of the death penalty you'll ever meet.

SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:50:52am

re: #71 lawhawk

PBS was also apparently contacted in the same fashion as NPR, but they expressed concerns over the bogus Islamic group set up by O'Keefe:

PBS handled this exactly right - know who you're talking to before you talk.

Sesame Street taught us well.

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:51:48am

re: #71 lawhawk

PBS was also apparently contacted in the same fashion as NPR, but they expressed concerns over the bogus Islamic group set up by O'Keefe:

PBS handled this exactly right - know who you're talking to before you talk.

I am glad PBS handled it this way. As I said earlier, James O'Keefe makes his existence by ruining the reputations of people and organizations he doesn't like. He's a slime bag.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:52:01am

The Hidden Cost of the War on Drugs

excerpt from one of the comments:

We will always have adults who are too immature to responsibly deal with tobacco alcohol, heroin amphetamines, cocaine, various prescription drugs and even food. Our answer to them should always be: “Get a Nanny, and stop turning the government into one for the rest of us!”

Nobody wants to see an end to prohibition because they want to use drugs. They wish to see proper legalized regulation because they are witnessing, on a daily basis, the dangers and futility of prohibition. ‘Legalized Regulation’ won’t be the complete answer to all our drug problems, but it’ll greatly ameliorate the crime and violence on our streets, and only then can we provide effective education and treatment.

The whole nonsense of ‘disaster will happen if we end prohibition’ sentiment sums up the delusional ‘chicken little’ stance of those who foolishly insist on continuing down this blind alley. As if disaster wasn’t already happening. As if prohibition has ever worked.

interesting article.

thecommodore Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:52:51am

re: #61 iossarian

I disagree. Those politicians were elected by people across the US who have a very different view of the world than you or I. The "tripe" may reinforce that view, but it only gets peddled with the advance knowledge that it will be well received. Now, possibly those 63 seats might have been 50 or 45 with better electoral tactics. But to think that you could have reversed that trend in the short term is not, in my view, realistic.

I believe that the only way to truly win is to conduct the battle against these toxic views on the ground, every day, in the countless small interactions we have with people. Of course, Obama could try to "fight back" against them, but are these people really going to change their minds based on anything he says (and which will in any case be reported to them in a highly distorted form)?

FWIW I think that LGF, and the shift in views on here that has been seen over the past 5 years or so, is evidence that this approach works. It's hard work, but it works.

Sharron Angle, for example, even with Harry Reid's high unfavorables, would never have received the nomination had the Democrats been more effective in fighting back against the insane rhetoric the GOP put forth. Neither would Christine O'Donnell, neither would Rand Paul.

On the house side, Allen West? C'mon!

The clearest example of what I'm talking about is how the White House responded to the Shirley Sherrod debacle. The fact that this started because of something Andrew Breitbart posted on his website is the best illustration of what I'm talking about. You're actually afraid of Andrew Breitbart?

That alone makes me embarrassed to be a Democrat and an Obama supporter.

And this NPR thing happened because of a video James O'Keefe - a convicted felon who was also about to dabble in what could be called date rape had not one of his associates blown his cover - posted. James O'Keefe?

And speaking of James O'Keefe - aren't enough people on to this guy? When a group poses as a Muslim organization with ties to the Muslim Brotherhood...no one saw any red flags? You've GOT to be kidding me!!!

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:54:52am

re: #67 negativ

And my tinfoil hat may need adjusting, but I'm really getting the feeling that all these budgetary shenanigans have more to do with social engineering than with fiscal policy.

See Maddow on "Disaster capitalism":
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

and

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

So "Emergency Powers" are not good for Mubarek or GKQDaffy, but are OK for a Governor in the US?

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:55:30am

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

I also venture to guess that the people who want to disenfranchise 18 year olds because they aren't capable of making an informed adult decision overlap with the people who want to try ten-year-olds as adults.

or have a fetus appear in court as a witness?

Spocomptonite Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:56:33am

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Well you see some that already question 18-21 year olds having the right to vote because "they only vote on their feelings." Those were the exact words of that dipshit GOP official in New Hampshire. I know so many people at that age who are better informed on the issues than many adults.

If I were a politician, my response would totally be, "Yeah, you are right. And then we should end the voting age at ~50, when people's brains begin to degrade. And then we should have a mental capability test, created by real, objective psychologists, that further determines who between the narrow window of 30-50 years old has the mental capacity to vote intelligently and unemotionally."

Given that a) their entire voting bloc is old and/or crazy, and b) they know that, that'd make them sit down and STFU, I think.

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:58:51am

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

Indeed!

Youtube Video

HappyWarrior Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:59:13am

re: #81 ggt

or have a fetus appear in court as a witness?

Oh come on that's what reasonable people do. They were going to have a fertilized cell testify but they thought it would be hard to have a microscopic cell testify so they went with the fetus instead.

simoom Wed, Mar 9, 2011 11:59:13am

re: #71 lawhawk

PBS was also apparently contacted in the same fashion as NPR, but they expressed concerns over the bogus Islamic group set up by O'Keefe:

PBS handled this exactly right - know who you're talking to before you talk.

NPR didn't completely fall for it either. O'Keefe's fake group kept trying to get NPR do some sort of photographed check-handing-over ceremony, but they repeatedly turned them down because they were still vetting the group.

Who knows, maybe the fund raising exec's initial contact lead an even more thorough than normal vetting because of some of the fake group's more dodgy comments.

simoom Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:01:54pm

re: #85 simoom

Who knows, maybe the fund raising exec's initial contact lead to an even more thorough than normal vetting because of some of the fake group's more dodgy comments.

Kragar Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:04:56pm

Saudis mobilizing thousands of troops

Saudi Arabia was yesterday drafting up to 10,000 security personnel into its north-eastern Shia Muslim provinces, clogging the highways into Dammam and other cities with busloads of troops in fear of next week's "day of rage" by what is now called the "Hunayn Revolution".

Saudi Arabia's worst nightmare – the arrival of the new Arab awakening of rebellion and insurrection in the kingdom – is now casting its long shadow over the House of Saud. Provoked by the Shia majority uprising in the neighbouring Sunni-dominated island of Bahrain, where protesters are calling for the overthrow of the ruling al-Khalifa family, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia is widely reported to have told the Bahraini authorities that if they do not crush their Shia revolt, his own forces will.

Spocomptonite Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:07:06pm

re: #82 Spocomptonite

BTW, my comment in quotes was in massive sarcasm. I do not actually believe that people over 50 are universally any more or less capable than anyone else. That'd make me just as bad as them and their thinking that 18-year-olds are universally capable of making all adult decisions and responsibilities, except for one.

Holidays are Family Fun Time Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:10:28pm

I'm off to be productive again.

maybe back, maybe not

leftynyc Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:43:24pm

re: #62 Lidane

Nominate Palin then see what happens. Even the Koch brothers won't be able to turn her into POTUS.

Precisely why she wont be the candidate. Nobody the Koch brothers disapprove of has a chance.

Blizard Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:29:15pm

Speaking of an informed populace, or in this case, mis-informed:

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Not on topic in this thread, nor do I feel comfortable linking HuffPo, but it's totally in-your-face blatant lies in new pending legislation connecting breast cancer to abortion brought to you by GOP of Indiana.

Why do they hate science and women?!?!

Ok, back to work. See you all later tonight.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:51:25pm

re: #67 negativ

And my tinfoil hat may need adjusting, but I'm really getting the feeling that all these budgetary shenanigans have more to do with social engineering than with fiscal policy.

See Maddow on "Disaster capitalism":
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

and

[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]

Shock Doctrine is a good book to check out as well

Martinsmithy Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:22:14pm

[Link: www.slate.com...]

Best line:

Again, this debate got restarted by the Williams firing, which may go down in history as the stupidest personnel decision since the Harry Frazee said "You know who we should sell? Babe Ruth."

Fozzie Bear Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:27:48pm

re: #93 Martinsmithy

Juan Williams == Babe Ruth? Really?

Decatur Deb Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:59:41pm

re: #85 simoom

NPR didn't completely fall for it either. O'Keefe's fake group kept trying to get NPR do some sort of photographed check-handing-over ceremony, but they repeatedly turned them down because they were still vetting the group.

Who knows, maybe the fund raising exec's initial contact lead an even more thorough than normal vetting because of some of the fake group's more dodgy comments.

In the end, though nothing NPRniks did or didn't do will make a difference. They are the target of TP/GOP cuts, and their fate falls to culture-war politics.

Ming Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:34:54pm

I must say that it seems reasonable for the government to stop funding NPR. I see NPR as a thoroughly legitimate news organization, and that's all well and good, but I don't understand why it needs government money. Of course, we're talking an infinitesimal part of federal spending here: hardly worth the time that people are putting into the argument. Still, I'm afraid that as crazy as many Republicans are, they have a winning argument when it comes to NPR.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:09:13pm

re: #96 Ming

I must say that it seems reasonable for the government to stop funding NPR. I see NPR as a thoroughly legitimate news organization, and that's all well and good, but I don't understand why it needs government money. Of course, we're talking an infinitesimal part of federal spending here: hardly worth the time that people are putting into the argument. Still, I'm afraid that as crazy as many Republicans are, they have a winning argument when it comes to NPR.

winning in the sense that Republicans win when they destroy actual journalism. Republicans want a dumb country. Easier to manipulate an uninformed electorate. Easier to hypnotize people when all they watch is fake news on cable

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