Suspect Arrested in Attempted MLK Parade Bombing is a Neo-Nazi

Kevin William Harpham was a member of the National Alliance
US News • Views: 32,856

The FBI has arrested a suspect in the attempted bombing of the MLK parade in Spokane, Washington: a home-grown American neo-Nazi.

Officials have just identified the suspect arrested in connection with the attempted Martin Luther King Jr. Day bombing in Spokane, Wash., as 36-year-old Kevin William Harpham.

Harpham was a member of the neo-Nazi National Alliance in late 2004. It was not known when Harpham joined or if he was still a member. The National Alliance was one of the most prominent hate groups in America for decades, but has fallen on hard times since the 2002 death of its founder, William Pierce. Pierce is the author of The Turner Diaries, a race war novel often referred to as the Bible of the radical right.

Our research indicates that Harpham was apparently in the military in 1996-97, when records indicate he was part of the 1st Battalion, 37th Field Artillery Regiment at Fort Lewis, Wash. The SPLC reported in 2006 that Fort Lewis was one of several military installations with a concentration of secret extremist members.

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325 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:48:17pm

Tim McVeigh wannabe. Also Pierce fan.

2 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:48:28pm

"The SPLC reported in 2006 that Fort Lewis was one of several military installations with a concentration of secret extremist members."

///Of course they only exist to silence dissent by labeling anyone right of center a hate group so what are you gonna do?

3 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:49:10pm

Agh, fucking neo-Nazi dirtbags.

4 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:49:16pm

Harpham has been charged with one count of attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction and one count of knowingly possessing an improvised explosive device for planting the bomb along the MLK Jr. parade route in Spokane.

5 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:49:46pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

It always ties back to Turner Diaries. Now we have another neo nazi lickspittle with a book out, Kyle Bristow's been pimping his white victimhood book at all the usual hate sites.

6 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:50:23pm

I hate Illinois Washington Nazis...

7 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:50:32pm

Really? You're sure?

I was pretty sure it was a middle-aged librarian who collects kitten calendars or a sushi chef who likes to knit. Maybe a brussel sprout farmer with a passion for ceramics?

I just can't believe that a Neo-nazi tried to bomb a MLK day parade. So out of character.

(I'm only being sarcastic because nobody was hurt.)

8 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:50:59pm

I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

9 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:52:29pm

re: #8 Alouette

I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

Your winnings sir...

10 Gus  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:52:50pm

Terrorist.

11 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:53:12pm

By the way if I ever encounter a neo-Nazi, I think one of the first questions I'd ask would be if Hitler were so great, why did his incompetency cost Germany the war or better yet since they're likely to be Holocaust deniers why at Nuremberg none of the defendants denied the existence of the camps but rather tried to shift blame. I'll say this. After visiting the site of Dachau in 2008, I challenge anyone to deny what happened.

12 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:54:04pm

The most pathetic being in the world is a failed terrorist.

13 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:55:17pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

Sergey can tell you how many handle the second point: they say that the trials were coerced kangaroo courts where those poor, poor Nazi defendants were threatened into supporting the fabricated story the British and the Americans had made up (for no apparent reason.)

14 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:57:03pm

re: #13 Obdicut

Sergey can tell you how many handle the second point: they say that the trials were coerced kangaroo courts where those poor, poor Nazi defendants were threatened into supporting the fabricated story the British and the Americans had made up (for no apparent reason.)

Agh, you know what gets me is when Neo-Nazis start acting like Dresden was a war crime but never a word from them about German attrocities on London, Warsaw, and other cities. I believe the book that showed David Irving to be the scum be is was a book about Dresden.

15 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:57:34pm

re: #5 Thanos

It always ties back to Turner Diaries. Now we have another neo nazi lickspittle with a book out, Kyle Bristow's been pimping his white victimhood book at all the usual hate sites.

I just looked up his name. That was a fucking mistake. The guy has the bland, Aryan look of a Eastern Front Waffen SS clean up squad officer.

The details of his "epic" book called (no joke or irony intended, apparently) "White Apocalypse" are getting rave reviews from the white power trailer trash crowd.

“Bristow’s fast-paced story is laced with well-documented scientific and historical data, as the theory itself is Earth-shattering: imagine—if you can—a reality in which Whites are the historical victims—and not the perpetrators—of genocide. Could the System continue to peddle their daily, anti-White elixir uncontested without this Original Sin firmly in place to remind Whites of our alleged race-guilt? This evidence could be the jolt Whites need to awaken from our suicidal slumber! . . . I salute Kyle Bristow for his genuine courage.”

I refuse to link. Sorry.

16 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:58:08pm

Bristow's book is a delve into the anti-scientific field of Solutrean trooferism ( The theory that whites covered and ruled the world in bygone ages but were wiped out in a massive genocide by other races. All archeological, geological, evolutionary, genetic, and anthropological evidence thoroughly refutes this white supremacist pipe dream)

17 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:59:09pm

re: #15 celticdragon

The dimfuck's book sells at Amazon.

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 12:59:23pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

By the way if I ever encounter a neo-Nazi, I think one of the first questions I'd ask would be if Hitler were so great, why did his incompetency cost Germany the war or better yet since they're likely to be Holocaust deniers why at Nuremberg none of the defendants denied the existence of the camps but rather tried to shift blame. I'll say this. After visiting the site of Dachau in 2008, I challenge anyone to deny what happened.

Deniers don't deny the camps, though. As for Nuremberg, you will get a lot of huffing and puffing about "torture", although it can be proven only in a couple of cases and wasn't systematic.

19 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:00:18pm

A fellow Army vet. Well, hell and damn.

I didn't want to mention it earlier but the design of the bomb did suggest someone with some kind of professional experience or training. The device was sophisticated and probably very lethal, but had been made with relatively simple and widely available components. The latter included ordinary sporting goods store gunpowder, a simple "line of sight" detonator like a garage door opener, and the especially vile addition of rat poison. The latter was probably included not to poison the victims but because it typically contains an anti-coagulant. In theory at least, this would have made it more likely that the injured would bleed to death.

20 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:00:23pm

re: #18 Sergey Romanov

Deniers don't deny the camps, though. As for Nuremberg, you will get a lot of huffing and puffing about "torture", although it can be proven only in a couple of cases and wasn't systematic.

Yeah, my mistake, they deny the gas chambers now that I recall.

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:02:19pm

re: #20 HappyWarrior

Yeah, my mistake, they deny the gas chambers now that I recall.

But that's the best part, ain't it. I mean, suppose there weren't gas chambers (despite overwhelming evidence) - does that mean that these brutal camps were OK? For most deniers - yes.

22 Gus  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:02:23pm

Same guy?

23 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:03:31pm

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

A fellow Army vet. Well, hell and damn.

I didn't want to mention it earlier but the design of the bomb did suggest someone with some kind of professional experience or training. The device was sophisticated and probably very lethal, but had been made with relatively simple and widely available components. The latter included ordinary sporting goods store gunpowder, a simple "line of sight" detonator like a garage door opener, and the especially vile addition of rat poison. The latter was probably included not to poison the victims but because it typically contains an anti-coagulant. In theory at least, this would have made it more likely that the injured would bleed to death.

I believe this disgusting practice originated with Palestinian terrorist groups.

24 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:03:52pm

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

Remember when the wingnuts jumped all over Charles when he quoted the article that stated that white supremacist groups were recruiting in the military?

25 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:04:10pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Same guy?

That's probably him.

26 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:04:58pm

re: #22 Gus 802

Same guy?

Good catch. It almost certainly is the same guy. "Harpham" is not a common name and VNN is part of the neo-Nazi Pierce organization.

27 Gus  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:05:22pm

re: #26 Shiplord Kirel

Good catch. It almost certainly is the same guy. "Harpham" is not a common name and VNN is part of the neo-Nazi Pierce organization.

That's what I figured.

28 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:07:39pm

More details about the takedown:

Records indicate Harpham is a registered voter, which suggests he has no prior felony convictions, and could explain why it took so long for a suspect to be identified.

Agents are in rural Stevens County searching Harpham’s home near Addy, which is south of Colville. Witnesses reported hearing a loud explosion that agents used to breach the front door.

Kevin Coy, who lives near the house being searched, said law enforcement took one of his neighbors into custody this morning as he drove across a bridge over the Colville River. In an interview with KHQ News, Coy described the suspect’s house as a trailer, and said there were lots of dogs around. He also said a blue four-door Honda was put on a trailer and removed by the federal agents.

Previously, federal officials had called the bomb a thwarted attempt at domestic terrorism and said the investigation would likely turn on forensic testing of the bomb, which had been sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation lab in Quantico, Va.

29 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:07:41pm

good news indeed...this story hit the back burners and I was afraid the perp was gonna skate...my regard for LE is as high as ever and I hope they have the right guy

30 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:07:45pm

re: #24 Thanos

Remember when the wingnuts jumped all over Charles when he quoted the article that stated that white supremacist groups were recruiting in the military?

I do. They went apeshit even though the self-same white supremacists were shouting their military recruitment efforts from the rooftops long before the article appeared.
There are 30 million veterans in this country, it was bound to take with at least a few of them.

31 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:07:45pm

re: #21 Sergey Romanov

But that's the best part, ain't it. I mean, suppose there weren't gas chambers (despite overwhelming evidence) - does that mean that these brutal camps were OK? For most deniers - yes.

Yeah, the people at those camps were still worked to death as slave laborers. It just astounds me that people can deny what happened in the face of such evidence. I remember watching a documentary about WWII and the Allies finding the camps and hte late Stephen Ambrose quoting Eisenhower telling his aides to get footage of the camps becuase he knew somewhere down the line someone would deny what happened. I have to say one of my favorite pieces of research I've done as an undergrad was about the changing perceptions of Jews in the Holocaust. I wrote about recent films based off true stories that have Jews being active in the resistance.

32 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:08:57pm

re: #19 Shiplord Kirel

A fellow Army vet. Well, hell and damn.

But of course, Napolitano had to be slimed and the report had to be withdrawn.

33 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:09:38pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

Yeah, the people at those camps were still worked to death as slave laborers. It just astounds me that people can deny what happened in the face of such evidence. I remember watching a documentary about WWII and the Allies finding the camps and hte late Stephen Ambrose quoting Eisenhower telling his aides to get footage of the camps becuase he knew somewhere down the line someone would deny what happened. I have to say one of my favorite pieces of research I've done as an undergrad was about the changing perceptions of Jews in the Holocaust. I wrote about recent films based off true stories that have Jews being active in the resistance.

There are still flat earthers out there also, and they don't even have the religious excuse that YECs do.....

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:10:10pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

The Nazis had a special program, Sonderaktion 1005, destroying the traces of their crimes (burning the bodies). The first act of Holocaust denial.

35 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:10:24pm

Yeah, I remember the backlash against the DHS report. The right acted like the administration was attacking veterans though I believe the Bush DHS had similiar findings about veterans being ripe targets for extremist groups.

36 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:12:07pm

re: #35 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I remember the backlash against the DHS report. The right acted like the administration was attacking veterans though I believe the Bush DHS had similiar findings about veterans being ripe targets for extremist groups.

And it's already not the first time a vet is involved since that report was issued and withdrawn. And each time I remember about it.

37 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:13:38pm

Here's a link to the local affiliate's news coverage

[Link: www.khq.com...]

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:15:24pm

Well, I could pretty much have written that bio, without the name of course, the day they found the bomb.

39 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:15:55pm

re: #3 HappyWarrior

Agh, fucking neo-Nazi dirtbags.

I hate Spokane Nazis.

40 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:16:39pm

re: #33 jamesfirecat

There are still flat earthers out there also, and they don't even have the religious excuse that YECs do...

It really amazes me that flat-earthers still exist, given that you can SEE the sphericity of the earth from space, and we have thousands of photographs demonstrating it.

It takes some serious craziness to deny something that obvious.

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:17:09pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

By the way if I ever encounter a neo-Nazi, I think one of the first questions I'd ask would be if Hitler were so great, why did his incompetency cost Germany the war or better yet since they're likely to be Holocaust deniers why at Nuremberg none of the defendants denied the existence of the camps but rather tried to shift blame. I'll say this. After visiting the site of Dachau in 2008, I challenge anyone to deny what happened.

What amazes me is seeing the EDL boys with their Nazi salutes.

Your grandfathers and great-grandfathers kicked those evil bastards' asses, YOU MORONS!!!!

42 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:17:58pm

re: #40 Fozzie Bear

It really amazes me that flat-earthers still exist, given that you can SEE the sphericity of the earth from space, and we have thousands of photographs demonstrating it.

It takes some serious craziness to deny something that obvious.

While I'm sure that some flatearthers exist... I would go out on a limb and say they're probably numbered in tens, maximum several hundreds.

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:17:58pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

Agh, you know what gets me is when Neo-Nazis start acting like Dresden was a war crime but never a word from them about German attrocities on London, Warsaw, and other cities. I believe the book that showed David Irving to be the scum be is was a book about Dresden.

Never made that connection before. Interesting point.

44 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:18:29pm

Since wingnuts believe the nazis were leftists I can see where this is going already.

45 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:18:33pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

What amazes me is seeing the EDL boys with their Nazi salutes.

Your grandfathers and great-grandfathers kicked those evil bastards' asses, YOU MORONS!!!

Yep, their grandfathers and great grandfathers if they're still with us are probably thinking what the hell is wrong with these lads.

46 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:18:45pm

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

What amazes me is seeing the EDL boys with their Nazi salutes.

Your grandfathers and great-grandfathers kicked those evil bastards' asses, YOU MORONS!!!

Russian neo-Nazis... Lots of them.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:18:52pm

re: #23 Charles

I believe this disgusting practice originated with Palestinian terrorist groups.

I don't know if they came up with it, but they do use it.

48 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:18:55pm

re: #40 Fozzie Bear

It really amazes me that flat-earthers still exist, given that you can SEE the sphericity of the earth from space, and we have thousands of photographs demonstrating it.

It takes some serious craziness to deny something that obvious.

///Someday when its cheep enough we should be able to round up all the flat earthers, put them on a rocket and shoot them into space so that they can see the shape of the earth for themselves.

We may even allow that rocket to set land on earth again if we're feeling generous...

49 tomg51spence  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:19:41pm

Never heard of Pierce or Turner Diaries.
Lucky and ignorant at the same time, I guess.

Am I alone in this?

50 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:20:06pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

Yeah, the people at those camps were still worked to death as slave laborers. It just astounds me that people can deny what happened in the face of such evidence. I remember watching a documentary about WWII and the Allies finding the camps and hte late Stephen Ambrose quoting Eisenhower telling his aides to get footage of the camps becuase he knew somewhere down the line someone would deny what happened. I have to say one of my favorite pieces of research I've done as an undergrad was about the changing perceptions of Jews in the Holocaust. I wrote about recent films based off true stories that have Jews being active in the resistance.

A lot of the time what you hear is not really denying as in "it never happened" but instead they question the numbers. It wasn't 6 million, they say. It was like 200,000 or something. They say there weren't 6 million Jews in Europe.

But there were. More than that actually. Jews, by and large, were not allowed to keep birth or death records so they weren't recorded, but the families knew the numbers, in and out of Europe.

51 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:20:55pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

Agh, you know what gets me is when Neo-Nazis start acting like Dresden was a war crime but never a word from them about German attrocities on London, Warsaw, and other cities. I believe the book that showed David Irving to be the scum be is was a book about Dresden.

Richard Evans' exhaustive report is at [Link: www.holocaustdenialontrial.com...]

Much of it is about Dresden exaggerations/fabrications/embellishments.

52 simoom  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:21:07pm

re: #24 Thanos

Remember when the wingnuts jumped all over Charles when he quoted the article that stated that white supremacist groups were recruiting in the military?

Speaking of... currently I'm seeing no coverage of this at foxnews.com, drudge, hotair, redstate, etc. Usually they're all over breaking terrorism news, odd ///.

53 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:21:14pm

re: #49 tomg51spence

Never heard of Pierce or Turner Diaries.
Lucky and ignorant at the same time, I guess.

Am I alone in this?

Among those who registered here when you did, or earlier, or later, I'd guess so.

54 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:21:37pm

re: #49 tomg51spence

Never heard of Pierce or Turner Diaries.
Lucky and ignorant at the same time, I guess.

Am I alone in this?

I think the Turner Diaries were linked to McVeigh? Or mentioned at that time, but it's probably somewhat obscure if you didn't follow it super closely.

55 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:22:11pm

re: #50 marjoriemoon

A lot of the time what you hear is not really denying as in "it never happened" but instead they question the numbers. It wasn't 6 million, they say. It was like 200,000 or something. They say there weren't 6 million Jews in Europe.

But there were. More than that actually. Jews, by and large, were not allowed to keep birth or death records so they weren't recorded, but the families knew the numbers, in and out of Europe.

In the Wannsee report it is stated that there were 11 mill. European Jews (that included North Africa). (Of course, that makes the Wannsee report a "fake".)

56 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:22:11pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Since wingnuts believe the nazis were leftists I can see where this is going already.

There will be a race by right wing blogs to say that he's a democrat?

57 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:22:29pm

re: #49 tomg51spence

Never heard of Pierce or Turner Diaries.
Lucky and ignorant at the same time, I guess.

Am I alone in this?

Once your delve into the rabbit hole of right-wing extremism, you start to see some of the same names and titles pop up over and over. If you haven't ever explored that dark little world, it's expected you wouldn't have any idea they existed.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:22:50pm

re: #54 marjoriemoon

I think the Turner Diaries were linked to McVeigh? Or mentioned at that time, but it's probably somewhat obscure if you didn't follow it super closely.

He had excerpts in his car.

59 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:22:50pm

re: #54 marjoriemoon

Two pages of them were found with him IIRC at arrest? Anyone recall for certain?

60 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:23:06pm

re: #57 Fozzie Bear

Once your delve into the rabbit hole of right-wing extremism, you start to see some of the same names and titles pop up over and over. If you haven't ever explored that dark little world, it's expected you wouldn't have any idea they existed.

Hence the "lucky" part eh?

61 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:24:20pm

re: #54 marjoriemoon

I think the Turner Diaries were linked to McVeigh? Or mentioned at that time, but it's probably somewhat obscure if you didn't follow it super closely.

He was a reader of the Turner Diaries. Guy who wrote it was William Pierce, who had worked with George Lincoln Rockwell, founder of hte American Nazi Party. My Dad remembers seeing the ANP headquarters in Arlington, Va since it was none too far from where he grew up and I've seen the shopping center where Rockwell was killed. Eerie really to look at it and to think that many people who go there don't know the history.

62 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:25:10pm

re: #60 Stanley Sea

Hence the "lucky" part eh?

Heh. Yeah, definitely. I only ever became curious because I kept having people I grew up with quote this shit at me. Turns out, I have been surrounded by batshit insane extremists most of my life, and I had no idea.

63 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:26:20pm

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Not surprisingly, Pierce grew out of the John Birch Society breeding ground. (Later denounced them as sell-outs.)

64 bluecheese  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:27:00pm

Good job on the part of the FBI.

Time to make an example out of this kid.

65 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:27:02pm

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

Not surprisingly, Pierce grew out of the John Birch Society breeding ground. (Later denounced them as sell-outs.)

Its never a good sign when you have someone saying that the JBS doesn't go far enough....

66 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:27:40pm

re: #49 tomg51spence

The Turner Diaries really came to light after the Oklahoma City bombing, and was one of the inspirations for the murderous bastard Tim McVeigh.

67 tomg51spence  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:27:43pm

Thanks all.
Lucky does seem to be correct.
Other than the know your enemy stuff

68 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:27:47pm

re: #56 Thanos

There will be a race by right wing blogs to say that he's a democrat?

They're searching the voter records right now.

69 Slap  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:27:52pm

re: #51 Sergey Romanov

OT, but talk of Dresden reminds me -- does anyone here remember a short-lived sitcom called Hail to the Chief? It was produced by the people who did Soap, and starred Patty Duke as the first female President.

The reason Dresden prompted this memory was that one of the main characters, her Joint Chiefs chairman, was an uber-hawk who had the walls of his dining room wallpapered with floor-to-ceiling photos of Dresden after the bombing....

Dark stuff, VERY short-lived series.

70 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:29:16pm

The Turner Diaries is a white supremacist novel about the overthrow of the US government, leading to a race war that exterminates everyone except, you guessed it, white people.

71 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:29:25pm

Wikipedia: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

72 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:29:38pm

I used to have deep suspicions about lizards who have since been banned because they would plus up weird stories like the one about white mummies discovered in Peru, etc.

73 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:29:39pm

re: #55 Sergey Romanov

In the Wannsee report it is stated that there were 11 mill. European Jews (that included North Africa). (Of course, that makes the Wannsee report a "fake".)

I imagined a lot escaped and also were never recorded.

One of my grandfather's sisters (my great aunt Rachel) came to the states with her husband after WWI. She ended up returning to Poland before WWII and was killed in Auschwitz with the rest of the family that stayed behind. I got two different stories why she returned. One was that her husband beat her. The other was that she was a communist and didn't like it here, but I don't know. It was an awful decision she made to return.

My grandfather's brother, my great uncle Zaydel, escaped dressed as a woman. Made it to Israel and then the states. So there were a lot of stories like that.

74 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:30:15pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Since wingnuts believe the nazis were leftists I can see where this is going already.

Duh, National Socialist Party!11!!!!//

75 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:30:26pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

Its never a good sign when you have someone saying that the JBS doesn't go far enough...

JBS makes (made) a point of not being outwardly antisemitic. So it starts out as a run-of-the-mill paranoidal conspirology, and then the most "talented" in this field outgrow the JBS and become ideologues in their own right, focused on Jews - Pierce, Revilo Oliver, etc.

76 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:31:32pm

re: #62 Fozzie Bear

Heh. Yeah, definitely. I only ever became curious because I kept having people I grew up with quote this shit at me. Turns out, I have been surrounded by batshit insane extremists most of my life, and I had no idea.

It's a testament to your mamma :) She raised you right.

77 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:32:01pm

re: #42 Sergey Romanov

While I'm sure that some flatearthers exist... I would go out on a limb and say they're probably numbered in tens, maximum several hundreds.

Also, a lot of people join the Flat Earth Society and its ilk for fun, or to have the card to show. Not because they think it's flat.

78 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:32:32pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, a lot of people join the Flat Earth Society and its ilk for fun, or to have the card to show. Not because they think it's flat.

You know, now all the sudden I want a membership card.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:32:43pm

re: #46 Sergey Romanov

Russian neo-Nazis... Lots of them.

Same thing. How freaking stupid is it when the righteous victors' heirs ape the evil losers?

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:33:26pm

re: #49 tomg51spence

Never heard of Pierce or Turner Diaries.
Lucky and ignorant at the same time, I guess.

Am I alone in this?

Pierce is new. The Turner Diaries I knew about. McVeigh was a fan.

My dad's got a copy. He read it back when Oklahoma happened.

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:33:29pm

re: #70 Charles

The Turner Diaries is a white supremacist novel about the overthrow of the US government, leading to a race war that exterminates everyone except, you guessed it, white people.

The Diaries contain pathological descriptions of main "heroes" killing blacks and Jews, with gusto. Anyone who can like this is already a candidate for the stuff like this.

82 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:33:46pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, a lot of people join the Flat Earth Society and its ilk for fun, or to have the card to show. Not because they think it's flat.

Lisa: You're a member of the Stonecutters, Grampa?
Grampa: Oh, sure. Let's see...
[starts going through the cards in his wallet]
Grampa: I'm an elk, a Mason, a communist. I'm the president of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance for some reason. Ah, here it is. The Stonecutters.
Homer: This is it! My ticket in: they have to let me in if I'm the son of a member. I'll take this communist one too.

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:34:27pm

re: #50 marjoriemoon

A lot of the time what you hear is not really denying as in "it never happened" but instead they question the numbers. It wasn't 6 million, they say. It was like 200,000 or something. They say there weren't 6 million Jews in Europe.

But there were. More than that actually. Jews, by and large, were not allowed to keep birth or death records so they weren't recorded, but the families knew the numbers, in and out of Europe.

It's very hard to research the Roma in the Holocaust. Gypsies were so viciously treated even before the Nazis that the old folks often have a hard time distinguishing between the persecution before and the persecution after.

84 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:34:39pm

re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, a lot of people join the Flat Earth Society and its ilk for fun, or to have the card to show. Not because they think it's flat.

Yes, their forum is basically a big joke, I doubt there are any serious FEs.

85 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:36:41pm

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

It's very hard to research the Roma in the Holocaust. Gypsies were so viciously treated even before the Nazis that the old folks often have a hard time distinguishing between the persecution before and the persecution after.

Do the deniers talk about the gypsies? Usually it's the Jews they like to deny. But yes, you are right about that.

86 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:36:58pm

re: #83 SanFranciscoZionist

It's very hard to research the Roma in the Holocaust. Gypsies were so viciously treated even before the Nazis that the old folks often have a hard time distinguishing between the persecution before and the persecution after.

Yehuda Bauer in "Anatomy of the Auschwitz Death Camp" writes that the research on the genocide of Gypsies is mostly done by Jewish researchers, and adds that it's very hard to piece together this history since Gypsies feel a sense of shame because of what was done to them in the camps and try not to share their stories with the outsiders.

87 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:37:40pm

OT: This is interesting. It seems the threats against servicemen and their families came directly from our old pal Barrett Brown....
Threat of 'Anonymous' Cyberattack on Pentagon May Be Overblown

Brown told the Scottish tech site The Tech Herald that Anonymous was planning to strike out against Pentagon officials and Manning’s betrayers.

"The Internet is a weapon. It’s already weaponized, and those of us who know how to use this weapon have the advantage,” he told the website. “I know who else was involved in turning [Manning] in. I'm not sure what to do on that yet, but we're speaking among ourselves about that."

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:37:41pm

re: #82 jamesfirecat

Lisa: You're a member of the Stonecutters, Grampa?
Grampa: Oh, sure. Let's see...
[starts going through the cards in his wallet]
Grampa: I'm an elk, a Mason, a communist. I'm the president of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance for some reason. Ah, here it is. The Stonecutters.
Homer: This is it! My ticket in: they have to let me in if I'm the son of a member. I'll take this communist one too.

Who controls the British Crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, we do.
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do.
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do.
Who robs cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do!

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:38:10pm

re: #86 Sergey Romanov

(Shame because the humiliation in the camps was so contrary to the Gypsy norms that it's very traumatic.)

90 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:38:33pm

Oh Spokane, you have a really great brewery, why are you surrounded by creepy white supremacists

91 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:39:01pm

On the subject of families. I've told the story before about how my grandfather's cousin was apparently shot and killed by the Nazis and that inspired the survivors to join the resistance. I have no idea if they were Partisans with Tito or Cetniks. I tend to think they were the former since the Cetniks were mostly Serbs and his family was Slovene not to mention Catholic which would be in contrast of the Cetniks who were mostly Serb and Orthodox. I always wondered though what happened to my grandmother's family. She's said that her father's brother stayed behind in Czechoslovakia as did her grandfather. Her grandmother had died when my great grandfather was a boy. Always wondered what they did and I know there is still some family left there since my grandmother's sister visited them in Slovakia I think during her college years in the late 50's. Wondered the same about my German relations too but my German side which is my Dad's had emigrated to the US before the Civil War. They were well established in the US by the time WWII broke out. Heck, my one set of grandparents had already married and started their family the day Hitler invaded Poland.

92 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:39:41pm

re: #85 marjoriemoon

Do the deniers talk about the gypsies? Usually it's the Jews they like to deny. But yes, you are right about that.

Yes, they deny all genocide by the Nazis, and some of them did write articles about, e.g., the Gypsy camp in Auschwitz (denying the gassings).

93 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:40:12pm

OT: I don't usually pimp my pages, but I think most of you will find this one interesting: The Lifeboat Foundation: A stealth attack on scientists?

I couldn't decide whether to file it under "science" or "wingnuts", but finally opted for the former. I have work to do, so I'll let you get back to your discussion in progress...

~~~Gone~~~

94 Spocomptonite  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:40:19pm

Being from Spokane myself, I must say that we're not all like this. Even in the stereotypical areas like Hayden Lake and Sandpoint, ID, these kinds of views are not well tolerated by the community at large.

95 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:42:45pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

On the subject of families. I've told the story before about how my grandfather's cousin was apparently shot and killed by the Nazis and that inspired the survivors to join the resistance. I have no idea if they were Partisans with Tito or Cetniks. I tend to think they were the former since the Cetniks were mostly Serbs and his family was Slovene not to mention Catholic which would be in contrast of the Cetniks who were mostly Serb and Orthodox. I always wondered though what happened to my grandmother's family. She's said that her father's brother stayed behind in Czechoslovakia as did her grandfather. Her grandmother had died when my great grandfather was a boy. Always wondered what they did and I know there is still some family left there since my grandmother's sister visited them in Slovakia I think during her college years in the late 50's. Wondered the same about my German relations too but my German side which is my Dad's had emigrated to the US before the Civil War. They were well established in the US by the time WWII broke out. Heck, my one set of grandparents had already married and started their family the day Hitler invaded Poland.

Where they Jews? If you have names, you can check out Jewishgen.org. They have a LOT of the history there. I don't know if they have non-Jews. I don't think so.

Most all my mother's family got out of Europe by, say 1921. My father's family, I know less about.

96 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:42:55pm

re: #89 Sergey Romanov

My wife is part Roma, but Boyash. They had emigrated out of Europe as soon as they were freed from slavery (in the goddamn 1800s, one of the last enslaved populaces in Europe), and were outcasts even by Roma standards. We've gotten involved in some Roma charity stuff, and the general feeling that we've gotten is often that suicide tended to be quite high in the Roma population in the camps precisely because of that, that their way of life was taken away and that, to them, was an unconscionable violation.

97 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:43:34pm

re: #14 HappyWarrior

Agh, you know what gets me is when Neo-Nazis start acting like Dresden was a war crime but never a word from them about German attrocities on London, Warsaw, and other cities. I believe the book that showed David Irving to be the scum be is was a book about Dresden.

The bombing of Dresden didn't come out of nowhere. Germany had sown the wind, and they reaped the whirlwind. Nonetheless, the attack on Dresden was a moral error.

The war in Europe was as good as over by the time that attack was mounted. The Americans had got the best of the Germans in the Battle of the Bulge, while on the Eastern Front, the Soviets were in full pursuit across Poland as the Wehrmacht fell back toward its last stand line on the Elbe before Berlin.

Killing some 25000 civilians, (a sober estimate of the result) in Dresden didn't figure to shorten the war, or reduce our own casualties, or achieve much of anything beyond retribution, visited upon people who hadn't had any central hand in Germany's crimes. The same number of missions, devoted to bringing supplies up to the front, would have done more for the Allied war effort.

After that raid, the Allies abandoned their strategic attacks on Germany since there weren't any suitable targets left. Dresden itself wasn't a suitable target, given that German industry was already running on fumes.

If anybody deserved collective retribution, it was the Germans. But that's a big if. War is cruel, but it has its logic. Drastic measures may be required---Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example.

But when the end finally comes into view and one's own casualty list is not going to get much longer, nor can the enemy hold out much longer, it's time to think to the shape of a future peace.

98 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:44:17pm

re: #94 Spocomptonite

Being from Spokane myself, I must say that we're not all like this. Even in the stereotypical areas like Hayden Lake and Sandpoint, ID, these kinds of views are not well tolerated by the community at large.

I've been many times, it's true, it's not like you walk around downtown and see skinheads everywhere (you've been to the Steam Plant Grill in Spokane, right? That place RULES)

Basically it's just what you get in the rural northwest in places, extending to idaho, you get a lot of empty space and a lot of empty and broken people playing army, we have some here in Oregon too

99 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:45:20pm

re: #94 Spocomptonite

Being from Spokane myself, I must say that we're not all like this. Even in the stereotypical areas like Hayden Lake and Sandpoint, ID, these kinds of views are not well tolerated by the community at large.

You shouldn't need to defend Spokaners, or whatever you're called. Obviously most of you were preparing to enjoy a parade in honor of Martin Luther King Jr. Not exactly the plans of the typical white supremacists.

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:45:44pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

Where they Jews? If you have names, you can check out Jewishgen.org. They have a LOT of the history there. I don't know if they have non-Jews. I don't think so.

Most all my mother's family got out of Europe by, say 1921. My father's family, I know less about.

JewishGen is very good and thorough, I was surprised to find some obscure info there I was searching for.

101 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:47:19pm

re: #97 lostlakehiker

The bombing of Dresden didn't come out of nowhere. Germany had sown the wind, and they reaped the whirlwind. Nonetheless, the attack on Dresden was a moral error.

Agreed on both counts.

102 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:52:07pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

Where they Jews? If you have names, you can check out Jewishgen.org. They have a LOT of the history there. I don't know if they have non-Jews. I don't think so.

Most all my mother's family got out of Europe by, say 1921. My father's family, I know less about.

Non-Jews, my apologies for not clarifying that. I've long suspected using knowledge of geography that my maternal grandmother's parents came from the part of Slovakia near the Ukraine border. Most Slovaks are Roman Catholics but there is a heavy concentration of Greek Catholics near the Ukrainian border and that's what my grandmother was raised before she converted to marry my RCC grandfather. My dad's family has long been rumored to be supposely Swiss-German but I also heard stories that they were from Dusseldorf which has a sizeable Catholic population. We know where his Irish ancestors came from and I even got to go there two yeras ago. Didn't find any relatives and it would have been hard to find some bearing his grandmother's maiden name since Joyce is a really common name in Galway.

103 Kragar  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:52:32pm

re: #97 lostlakehiker

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were both legitimate targets militarily that needed to destroyed if an invasion had been necessary. Hiroshima was home of the Japanese Southern Defense command, which would have overseen the defenses and Nagasaki was a major staging area and railyard which would have served as a hub for mobilizing troops. If nukes had not been dropped, then conventional bombing raids would have been launched to level the cities.

104 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:53:21pm

re: #100 Sergey Romanov

JewishGen is very good and thorough, I was surprised to find some obscure info there I was searching for.

And it keeps getting better! I was telling SFZ quite some time ago about a woman I corresponded with in San Fran whose grandmother was in the same shtetl as mine! And she shared pictures (hand-drawn) and articles about it. It was in Belarus, but for some reason now I can't remember the name. Anyway, it was awesomely cool.

Recently, I found some pictures in the Yitkor books of my grandfather's sisters before the war and then after, in Israel. I really dig this stuff, but I love history... mine and anyone else who wants to yammer on about it.

105 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:57:23pm

I haven't been following the debate in Michigan regarding the Emergency Financial Manager Bill that's being debated in the state Legislature, but now that I've seen this -

Oh my fucking god.

Emergency Financial Manager bill on the verge of passage

LANSING — With over 1,000 union members and supporters on the lawn, and hundreds packing the Capitol dome chanting “kill the bill,” the GOP-controlled state Senate pushed the controversial Emergency Financial Manager legislation to the precipice of passage on Tuesday.

The chamber is expected to pass the legislative package Wednesday morning. Following passage, the bill will go to a conference committee of both chambers to hammer out differences in legislation passed in each body. Both bodies will then vote on the conference committee legislation. It will then go to Republican Gov. Rick Snyder, who is expected to sign it.

Unions and others oppose the legislation because it would give broad new powers to emergency financial managers, who are appointed by the state treasurer. Those powers include the ability to nullify collective bargained agreements, imposition of new agreements for those bargaining units which will have effect for as much as five years after the EMF leaves office and the ability for the manager to dissolve local governing bodies of schools and cities. The EMF would also have the power to eliminate any local ordinance or law he or she decides to eliminate.

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.

106 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:57:46pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

Non-Jews, my apologies for not clarifying that. I've long suspected using knowledge of geography that my maternal grandmother's parents came from the part of Slovakia near the Ukraine border. Most Slovaks are Roman Catholics but there is a heavy concentration of Greek Catholics near the Ukrainian border and that's what my grandmother was raised before she converted to marry my RCC grandfather. My dad's family has long been rumored to be supposely Swiss-German but I also heard stories that they were from Dusseldorf which has a sizeable Catholic population. We know where his Irish ancestors came from and I even got to go there two yeras ago. Didn't find any relatives and it would have been hard to find some bearing his grandmother's maiden name since Joyce is a really common name in Galway.

I think we chatted about this before :)

The Ukrainians were brutal. They did the Nazis bidding and some worse than the Nazis themselves. They wiped out a lot of the Jewsish towns, shooting them and then when they ran out of bullets, beating them to death. Little children and elderly. I don't know where you could find the Catholic histories though.

107 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 1:58:06pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

It is also the opposite of small government.

108 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:00:03pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

I haven't been following the debate in Michigan regarding the Emergency Financial Manager Bill that's being debated in the state Legislature, but now that I've seen this -

Oh my fucking god.

Emergency Financial Manager bill on the verge of passage

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.

The word for "beyond insane" is now "Republican".

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:00:41pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

I haven't been following the debate in Michigan regarding the Emergency Financial Manager Bill that's being debated in the state Legislature, but now that I've seen this -

Oh my fucking god.

Emergency Financial Manager bill on the verge of passage

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.


Said it before, saying it again, I'm staying in oregon where the government hasn't gone psycho

110 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:02:08pm

re: #108 Fozzie Bear

The word for "beyond insane" is now "Republican".

I'm so excited to see how depraved and monstrous they'll become!

it's like we're in the middle of one of those eras that people a hundred years from now will look at in history books (well, the ones Texas didn't get their paws on) and go "Wow, America sure was fucked up back then!"

111 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:02:36pm

re: #106 marjoriemoon

I think we chatted about this before :)

The Ukrainians were brutal. They did the Nazis bidding and some worse than the Nazis themselves. They wiped out a lot of the Jewsish towns, shooting them and then when they ran out of bullets, beating them to death. Little children and elderly. I don't know where you could find the Catholic histories though.

Yeah, a lot of Ukrainians blame the Jews for their suffering under the Soviets and collaborated. Yeah, I don't know either where one would find Catholic history. It's tough really since i have little doubt that there were variations on how the surnames were spelt. Like we have my grandfather's parents census records from 1920 and the name as it was spelt was totally different then how my grandfather ended up using it legally and my Mom when she was single. It also hurts that my grandmother only has one sister left and while I knew some of her other siblings, I was too young to be really curious about the history plus we didn't have the awesome historical resources online that we do now.

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:02:48pm

re: #108 Fozzie Bear

Off topic, I am now learning all about loops in Ableton, it's all quite fun *_*

113 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:03:03pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

Said it before, saying it again, I'm staying in oregon where the government hasn't gone psycho

or gone broke...states have few options and this is one of them...expect more of the same down the line....decades of unfunded spending will severely fuck you up

114 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:05:01pm

re: #34 Sergey Romanov

The Nazis had a special program, Sonderaktion 1005, destroying the traces of their crimes (burning the bodies). The first act of Holocaust denial.

The thing I learnt recently, that shocked me, is that the transportation of Holocaust victims always had priority of transportation.

Shipping ammo and replacement parts to the front when you're losing the war? Must wait until the Jews are shipped to their deaths.

I thought I couldn't be shocked at the depths of insanity and depravity the Nazis could sink to. I'm kind of sorry that I'm wrong.

OT: I'm glad they caught this sick fuck. I hope he's the last. I'll probably be disappointed though.

115 jaunte  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:06:00pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.


I guess this is one of those czars the TP got heated up about a while back.

116 garhighway  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:06:00pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

I haven't been following the debate in Michigan regarding the Emergency Financial Manager Bill that's being debated in the state Legislature, but now that I've seen this -

Oh my fucking god.

Emergency Financial Manager bill on the verge of passage

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.

Maddow had a piece last night she called "It's not about the budget" in which she listed several measures like this one that are clearly NOT about the state's various budget crises and ARE about making ideological advances. Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan and more.

117 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:06:12pm

re: #113 albusteve

or gone broke...states have few options and this is one of them...expect more of the same down the line...decades of unfunded spending will severely fuck you up

Oregon currently has a shortfall but it's not doom and gloom

But the idea that one guy has that much power to eliminate government programs is completely bonkers to me, it'll just turn state government into farce, it's mindlessly destructive

118 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:06:27pm

re: #116 garhighway

Maddow had a piece last night she called "It's not about the budget" in which she listed several measures like this one that are clearly NOT about the state's various budget crises and ARE about making ideological advances. Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan and more.

Yeah!

119 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:07:23pm

re: #112 WindUpBird

Off topic, I am now learning all about loops in Ableton, it's all quite fun *_*

It's fun to experiment with syncing. Try a loop x beats long and one y beats long, both on repeat. (Such that they come into sync every x*y beats) You can get some cool rhythmic effects sort of like the windshield wipers on buses getting in and out of sync. Fun stuff for rhythmic exploration.

120 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:08:06pm

re: #117 WindUpBird

Oregon currently has a shortfall but it's not doom and gloom

But the idea that one guy has that much power to eliminate government programs is completely bonkers to me, it'll just turn state government into farce, it's mindlessly destructive

You don't have kids in school.

It's gloom and doom.

121 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:08:43pm

re: #78 Fozzie Bear

You know, now all the sudden I want a membership card.

flat earth society faq

but apparently they are unaware of the dangers of dihydrogen oxide!

122 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:10:41pm

re: #121 engineer dog

flat earth society faq

but apparently they are unaware of the dangers of dihydrogen oxide!


The funny thing is that though this is a joke, if it were not a joke it wouldn't be any different. Poe's law.

123 garhighway  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:10:51pm

Hey, here's something interesting: it divides up the US (by county) into 12 different characteristics.

Try it! It's fun!

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

124 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:13:07pm

re: #118 WindUpBird

Yeah!

states are broke, voters are pissed and the TP senses a real weakness so they lunge for the throat....what would you have expected?...the reality of idealism over the budget has now become typical....get used to it

125 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:13:16pm

Question I have wanted to ask:

In my genealogical research, I came across a Jewish conversion baptism. (Not my ancestor. I would probably claim him if he were.) The last name the man chose was atypical of the area, and stands out. While I was searching for my own ancestors, I could see his children being born, and his sons marrying and having children, etc. because of the last name.

Would they have been at risk during the Holocaust? The conversion was back in something like 1770, but as I said, the last name was not German sounding. Would his descendants have been singled out?

Always wondered.

126 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:15:08pm

re: #120 EmmmieG

You don't have kids in school.

It's gloom and doom.

There is that, the schools in Oregon are not so great *_*

127 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:15:29pm

re: #125 EmmmieG

Question I have wanted to ask:

In my genealogical research, I came across a Jewish conversion baptism. (Not my ancestor. I would probably claim him if he were.) The last name the man chose was atypical of the area, and stands out. While I was searching for my own ancestors, I could see his children being born, and his sons marrying and having children, etc. because of the last name.

Would they have been at risk during the Holocaust? The conversion was back in something like 1770, but as I said, the last name was not German sounding. Would his descendants have been singled out?

Always wondered.

Sergey would be the go to guy to answer that.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:16:26pm

re: #104 marjoriemoon

And it keeps getting better! I was telling SFZ quite some time ago about a woman I corresponded with in San Fran whose grandmother was in the same shtetl as mine! And she shared pictures (hand-drawn) and articles about it. It was in Belarus, but for some reason now I can't remember the name. Anyway, it was awesomely cool.

Recently, I found some pictures in the Yitkor books of my grandfather's sisters before the war and then after, in Israel. I really dig this stuff, but I love history... mine and anyone else who wants to yammer on about it.

Eishyshok?

129 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:17:04pm

re: #126 WindUpBird

There is that, the schools in Oregon are not so great *_*

I read about that a while back. Messy business.

Any solutions on the horizon?

130 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:18:02pm

re: #126 WindUpBird

There is that, the schools in Oregon are not so great *_*

I'm stlil not sure how they're going to make up the shortfall. They were talking about some radical changes that aren't going to happen now.

The long and short of it is that they have to eliminate something.

Someone mentioned the band, but the marching band and color guard haven't received money from the schools for a long time.

Still, Hillsboro hasn't had orchestra for a long time. I suppose band (the class) is next.

131 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:18:08pm

re: #129 researchok

I read about that a while back. Messy business.

Any solutions on the horizon?

of course...spend even more money, money solves problems....it's a miracle

132 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:18:49pm

re: #111 HappyWarrior

Yeah, a lot of Ukrainians blame the Jews for their suffering under the Soviets and collaborated. Yeah, I don't know either where one would find Catholic history. It's tough really since i have little doubt that there were variations on how the surnames were spelt. Like we have my grandfather's parents census records from 1920 and the name as it was spelt was totally different then how my grandfather ended up using it legally and my Mom when she was single. It also hurts that my grandmother only has one sister left and while I knew some of her other siblings, I was too young to be really curious about the history plus we didn't have the awesome historical resources online that we do now.

Ack, I closed the window and lost my post!

You may want to try writing Father Patrick Desbois. They may have some info. He's been discovering 1000s of unmarked graves along the Ukrainian border. We wrote him, actually maybe a year ago and they do respond.

[Link: www.ushmm.org...]

[Link: www.holocaustbybullets.com...]

133 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:19:13pm

re: #97 lostlakehiker

The bombing of Dresden didn't come out of nowhere. Germany had sown the wind, and they reaped the whirlwind. Nonetheless, the attack on Dresden was a moral error.

I'm not sure the strategic bombing campaigns did anything other than slow down the rate at which the Nazi weapons manufacturing expanded. The planes, bombs and bomb sights were just too primitive. This lead to huge civilian casualties to no good purpose.

I think hitting transportation worked a lot better although more dangerous to the aircrews involved. Sort of the difference between clubbing your opponent to death or poisoning them.

But that's due to our misinterpretation of Clausewitz.

All the above is my opinion, of course.

134 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:19:54pm

re: #129 researchok

I read about that a while back. Messy business.

Any solutions on the horizon?

Who knows! I have more faith in Kitzhaber than I did in Kulongoski, Kitzhaber is way more of a hands on guy, more of a true wonk

135 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:19:59pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

Eishyshok?

The Shtetl? No. It's driving me insane now.... I think it began with a K. It was in Novo... ? crap.

136 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:20:24pm

Just checked the German White Pages. There's at least one person with that name in the area still.

137 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:21:08pm

re: #131 albusteve

of course...spend even more money, money solves problems...it's a miracle

I wish. I'm pretty sure we're all past that.

I do wonder how changes in the curriculum have contributed to the problem. Where are the 3 R's nowadays?

138 steve_davis  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:22:19pm

Any chance he was a liberal fascist? Or is Goldberg going to have to come up with a new vapid idea for a bestseller?

139 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:23:03pm

re: #132 marjoriemoon

Ack, I closed the window and lost my post!

You may want to try writing Father Patrick Desbois. They may have some info. He's been discovering 1000s of unmarked graves along the Ukrainian border. We wrote him, actually maybe a year ago and they do respond.

[Link: www.ushmm.org...]

[Link: www.holocaustbybullets.com...]

THanks, I'll write him. I've actually written to researchers at the Holocaust Museum before. I wanted to research hte Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and a librarian was very helpful to me. Ended up getting a good book on the uprising and seeing an excellent TV movie with Hank Azaria and David Schwimmer about it. I know those guys are comedians by trade by they did really well in it. Saw it with my family and we were all moved to say the least.

140 Martinsmithy  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:23:21pm

But wait, I thought all home-grown terrorists were Muslims?

After all, that's what Rep. King is telling me ...

141 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:23:23pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

I haven't been following the debate in Michigan regarding the Emergency Financial Manager Bill that's being debated in the state Legislature, but now that I've seen this -

Oh my fucking god.

Emergency Financial Manager bill on the verge of passage

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.

Can't say I'm surprised. The GOP, as currently constituted, as about as much liking for democracy as the Communists they claim to hate.

We had the same thing happen here in Toronto about a decade ago. The premier, our equivalent of governor, dissolved the elected school board and appointed an accountant to run our schools.

We're still trying to recover from that.

142 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:23:24pm

re: #134 WindUpBird

Who knows! I have more faith in Kitzhaber than I did in Kulongoski, Kitzhaber is way more of a hands on guy, more of a true wonk

I'll tell you, I believe the earlier and further away we get from the 3 R's focus the bigger a problem it gets.

Certainly in the early primary years. for sure.

143 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:23:29pm

re: #125 EmmmieG

Question I have wanted to ask:

In my genealogical research, I came across a Jewish conversion baptism. (Not my ancestor. I would probably claim him if he were.) The last name the man chose was atypical of the area, and stands out. While I was searching for my own ancestors, I could see his children being born, and his sons marrying and having children, etc. because of the last name.

Would they have been at risk during the Holocaust? The conversion was back in something like 1770, but as I said, the last name was not German sounding. Would his descendants have been singled out?

Always wondered.

Jews who converted to Baptist? I don't know. Lots of things would depend, particularly if they helped Jews in any way. The Germans weren't as helpful, say as the Dutch, as far as hiding or getting people out of the country.

But if they converted so long ago, they probably long lost any Jewish heritage by the time the 1940s rolled around.

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:23:57pm

re: #131 albusteve

of course...spend even more money, money solves problems...it's a miracle

I'm not against the idea of charter schools, if there's oversight and it's not totally sabotaging school resources

145 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:24:39pm

re: #144 WindUpBird

I'm not against the idea of charter schools, if there's oversight and it's not totally sabotaging school resources

On the money. Right on the money.

146 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:24:50pm

re: #143 marjoriemoon

Jews who converted to Baptist? I don't know. Lots of things would depend, particularly if they helped Jews in any way. The Germans weren't as helpful, say as the Dutch, as far as hiding or getting people out of the country.

But if they converted so long ago, they probably long lost any Jewish heritage by the time the 1940s rolled around.

Catholic. My ancestors were Catholic Germans who came to America in 1848, so my research is all before that.

147 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:26:38pm

re: #142 researchok

I'll tell you, I believe the earlier and further away we get from the 3 R's focus the bigger a problem it gets.

Certainly in the early primary years. for sure.

well, the problem with the three "r"s is you have to be able to teach them in flexible ways. We've come a long way since memorizing times tables and students in rows all reading aloud slowly from one book

also, I'm adding the aRRRRts to your three rs, because there's a lot more to art than cute drawings on your fridge, the graphic design of your resume, your website, your business cards, can make the difference between getting a job or not

148 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:27:10pm

re: #106 marjoriemoon

I think we chatted about this before :)

The Ukrainians were brutal. They did the Nazis bidding and some worse than the Nazis themselves. They wiped out a lot of the Jewsish towns, shooting them and then when they ran out of bullets, beating them to death. Little children and elderly. I don't know where you could find the Catholic histories though.

I remember Babi Yar.

149 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:28:21pm

re: #142 researchok

I'll tell you, I believe the earlier and further away we get from the 3 R's focus the bigger a problem it gets.

Certainly in the early primary years. for sure.


I didn't worry....both my kids have a 167 IQ

150 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:28:48pm

re: #146 EmmmieG

Catholic. My ancestors were Catholic Germans who came to America in 1848, so my research is all before that.

Interesting! I was gonna ask if they were from Spain at any point. You find a lot of Jewish the conversions from, well before that time, 1500s. In fact, Lopez and Perez were common Jewish names from that time period.

151 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:28:53pm

re: #137 researchok

I wish. I'm pretty sure we're all past that.

I do wonder how changes in the curriculum have contributed to the problem. Where are the 3 R's nowadays?

Very prominent, as the test becomes king, and the money for extras has run out.

152 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:30:41pm

re: #147 WindUpBird

well, the problem with the three "r"s is you have to be able to teach them in flexible ways. We've come a long way since memorizing times tables and students in rows all reading aloud slowly from one book

also, I'm adding the aRRRts to your three rs, because there's a lot more to art than cute drawings on your fridge, the graphic design of your resume, your website, your business cards, can make the difference between getting a job or not

Good point- but at what point do we start teaching these things? Early on? A bit later?

How do we decide and who ought to make those decisions?

153 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:31:26pm

re: #148 Romantic Heretic

I remember Babi Yar.

Horrifyingly wonderful.

154 Kragar  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:32:17pm

What the hell is going on with the internet lately?

155 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:32:21pm

re: #150 marjoriemoon

Interesting! I was gonna ask if they were from Spain at any point. You find a lot of Jewish the conversions from, well before that time, 1500s. In fact, Lopez and Perez were common Jewish names from that time period.

I'm rushing out so I hope you understood my chopped up English :>

Catch you lizards later.

156 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:32:33pm

re: #153 marjoriemoon

Horrifyingly wonderful.

Read it many years ago. It stuck with me for some reason.

157 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:32:54pm

On education, I am of the thought that we should have foreign language programs at a very young age for kids. The European schools I know immerse their kids in English at a young age. Maybe I am speaking from my current struggles with Spanish but I think I would be a much better student not just of Spanish but English if I had been immersed in a foreign language at a younger age. My youngest brother who attends a different elementary school than I did is enrolled in a Spanish program and he's doing really well. Plus he's a better writer than I was at that age too.

158 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:33:20pm

re: #145 researchok

On the money. Right on the money.

The thing with public schools is they have to deal with disabled and troubled students, they can't turn people away. So my concern with charter schools is that they may ghetto-ize public education, which isn't what I want. But a charter school can bring targeted resources, or more vocationally oriented instructors, which IS something I want.

I had a vocational graphic design class in high school, taught by a professional graphic designer with nationally recognized awards and credits from Fortune 500 companies. I had to hop on a bus in the middle of the day and travel to the school in the district with the big design department with the Macs and the process cameras and the drum scanner and all the professional toys. And that class was more demanding and more adult and more serious than any high school class I've ever taken, and actually more demanding than every art class in college I've ever taken before I got into my illustration/design core classes at art school.

And now that this is my career, I'm a big fan of targeted vocational education for smart students!

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:33:34pm

re: #157 HappyWarrior

On education, I am of the thought that we should have foreign language programs at a very young age for kids. The European schools I know immerse their kids in English at a young age. Maybe I am speaking from my current struggles with Spanish but I think I would be a much better student not just of Spanish but English if I had been immersed in a foreign language at a younger age. My youngest brother who attends a different elementary school than I did is enrolled in a Spanish program and he's doing really well. Plus he's a better writer than I was at that age too.

You learn grammar better if you're learning two languages, I believe.

160 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:34:24pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Very prominent, as the test becomes king, and the money for extras has run out.

Questions:

How much of the problems are teachers fault?

How much are the fault of parents?

Is the school curriculum today effective or too overloaded?

Personally, I believe the parents shoulder a lot of blame. For too many, school is a baby sitting service. That attitude is another time bomb.

161 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:35:52pm

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

You learn grammar better if you're learning two languages, I believe.

I think you're right about that. Requiring foreign language at a young age would not just benefit kids in preparation for college many of whom require foreign language to graduate but also help them as English students as well. I think it would be a lot better to have that in 3rd grade than forcing kids to do cursive which I think is outdated. I don't deny it has some importance but I think foreign language skills are much more important to the kids of today than cursive. I only use cursive when I sign my name.

162 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:36:10pm

re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist

Very prominent, as the test becomes king, and the money for extras has run out.

I have my suspicions about the American teach-to-the-test system actually ruining students' ability to critically think

163 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:36:45pm

re: #158 WindUpBird

The thing with public schools is they have to deal with disabled and troubled students, they can't turn people away. So my concern with charter schools is that they may ghetto-ize public education, which isn't what I want. But a charter school can bring targeted resources, or more vocationally oriented instructors, which IS something I want.

I had a vocational graphic design class in high school, taught by a professional graphic designer with nationally recognized awards and credits from Fortune 500 companies. I had to hop on a bus in the middle of the day and travel to the school in the district with the big design department with the Macs and the process cameras and the drum scanner and all the professional toys. And that class was more demanding and more adult and more serious than any high school class I've ever taken, and actually more demanding than every art class in college I've ever taken before I got into my illustration/design core classes at art school.

And now that this is my career, I'm a big fan of targeted vocational education for smart students!

So what the hell happened from when you were in school until now? Is that same program available now?

Where and when did schools go south?

164 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:38:20pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

I think you're right about that. Requiring foreign language at a young age would not just benefit kids in preparation for college many of whom require foreign language to graduate but also help them as English students as well. I think it would be a lot better to have that in 3rd grade than forcing kids to do cursive which I think is outdated. I don't deny it has some importance but I think foreign language skills are much more important to the kids of today than cursive. I only use cursive when I sign my name.

My first grader has a Spanish teacher in his class a couple times a week and is speaking all kinds of Spanish at home, pretty darn cool!

165 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:40:50pm

Okay, I gotta get going people. Evening classes and all that. Have a good night.

166 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:40:57pm

re: #137 researchok

I wish. I'm pretty sure we're all past that.

I do wonder how changes in the curriculum have contributed to the problem. Where are the 3 R's nowadays?

Global warming wiped out the pirates, and there is too much of a shortage right now to supply enough to be teachers.

Except for Somalia, but those aren't the right kind anyways.

167 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:42:06pm

GENERATION Y: THE MILLENNIALS

Excellent survey

168 freetoken  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:42:47pm

Inside twisted minds:

Newt Gingrich says his love of country contributed to affair

Newt Gingrich says his passion for his country contributed to his marital infidelity. In an interview posted Wednesday by The Christian Broadcasting Network, Gingrich -- who recently converted to Catholicism -- said he had sought God's forgiveness for mistakes in his past.

"There's no question at times of my life, partially driven by how passionately I felt about this country, that I worked far too hard and things happened in my life that were not appropriate," Gingrich said.

[...]

Only an ego as big as Gingrich's could spin adultery into a sign of virtue.

169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:43:30pm

re: #163 researchok

So what the hell happened from when you were in school until now? Is that same program available now?

Where and when did schools go south?

Nothing happened to my school, it's still doing great, still winning awards as far as I have heard. it's also in a well-to-do suburb of Seattle that is still booming and growing quickly (and has horrible traffic) and was the recipient of a lot of resources for their computer department when I was in school (early 1990s)

Oregon isn't Washington, we don't have the resources WA does, we're a bit closer to "dead average" in the US in state GDP, Washington is much higher

170 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:45:22pm

re: #162 WindUpBird

I have my suspicions about the American teach-to-the-test system actually ruining students' ability to critically think

Well, in my opinion, the educational system's problem is with its purpose. It is meant to turn out human resources suitable for employment, not human beings suitable for citizenship.

Plus we're cheap. Better schools will cost more money and far too many people aren't willing to pay for that.

171 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:45:59pm

re: #167 researchok

GENERATION Y: THE MILLENNIALS

Excellent survey

I'll second the notion of fathers becoming more involved in child-rearing. of the parents I know (mostly friends from high school who settled down) they have very actively parenting fathers, one is a stay at home dad because he works from home

Unless I miss my guess, in about 12 years or so there are going to be a couple of very well funded teen garage bands popping up in south Seattle :D

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:46:47pm

re: #168 freetoken

Inside twisted minds:

Newt Gingrich says his love of country contributed to affair

Only an ego as big as Gingrich's could spin adultery into a sign of virtue.

Man, if Newt Gingrich loves America THAT much, think how much CHARLIE SHEEN LOVES AMERICA

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:47:15pm

A sort of comic relief for those who know the basics of history. I was re-reading the old unofficial LGF dictionary and my GAZE fell upon this:

The name "Kossack" references the Cossacks, an old spelling of the ethnic group now known as Kazaks. When Russia absorbed Kazakstan into its empire, the Czar used Muslim Kazaks as a special cavalry due to their expert horsemanship and reputation for savage violence. Cossacks often were the perpetrators of horrific pogroms against Jews in Russian territory during the Czarist era.

*triple faceplam*

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:48:04pm

why was I ever afriad of the airbrush tool, this thing is indispensible

175 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:49:19pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

I think you're right about that. Requiring foreign language at a young age would not just benefit kids in preparation for college many of whom require foreign language to graduate but also help them as English students as well. I think it would be a lot better to have that in 3rd grade than forcing kids to do cursive which I think is outdated. I don't deny it has some importance but I think foreign language skills are much more important to the kids of today than cursive. I only use cursive when I sign my name.

My wingnut neighbor is outraged, outraged I say, that his 12 year old son is required to take Spanish in Middle School. This is one year, every other day for one hour, and precedes the mandatory foreign language requirement in high school. Dad thinks this is an insidious liberal plot to "Mexicanize" the population or some such. I pointed out that I had taken Spanish in the 5th grade, way back when Eisenhower was president, and had somehow remained a loyal American all these years. Dad is beginning to have suspicions about the latter, however, so it may not have been as good a point as I had thought. His suspicions are based on my general failure to vilify Obama and his all works, to say nothing of my practice of publicly ridiculing birthers.

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:52:05pm

re: #175 Shiplord Kirel

I was about to say, wingnuts won't stand for their kids learning the eeeevil mexican language BORDERS LANGUAGE CULTURE DURP

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:52:56pm

re: #175 Shiplord Kirel

I don't think my neighbors vote

178 freetoken  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:53:53pm

re: #172 WindUpBird

Remember, he's the type who lambasts say public unions for the evul they are doing.

I just posted it to show how twisted, really twisted, the thinking is behind so many of those who want to set themselves up as moral lights for the rest of the country.

179 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:54:48pm

re: #178 freetoken

I'm trying to imagine what events would have to transpire for Newt to become president, how many other things would have to fall into place for it to even be possible

180 garhighway  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:54:49pm

re: #168 freetoken

Inside twisted minds:

Newt Gingrich says his love of country contributed to affair

Only an ego as big as Gingrich's could spin adultery into a sign of virtue.

Well, he stills loves his country, right? So does that mean he's still stepping out on his wife?

181 Kruk  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:54:56pm

Anyone seen the latest bit of ant-abortion craziness? Indiana bill would require doctors to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, even though there is no credible scientific evidence that it does.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Heck, why not tell them abortions cause autism as well?

182 garhighway  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:55:29pm

re: #181 Kruk

Anyone seen the latest bit of ant-abortion craziness? Indiana bill would require doctors to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, even though there is no credible scientific evidence that it does.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Heck, why not tell them abortions cause autism as well?

And boils.

183 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:55:49pm

re: #181 Kruk

repeat until women are chattle

thanks, "heartland"!

184 freetoken  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:56:36pm

The whole attack on the education professions reeks of of manipulation, e.g.:

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

In an interview with Fox News’ Megyn Kelly moments ago, State Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald (R-WI), one of Walker’s closest allies in the legislature, confirmed the true political motive of Walker’s anti-union push. Fitzgerald explained that “this battle” is about eliminating unions so that “the money is not there” for the labor movement. Specifically, he said that the destruction of unions will make it “much more difficult” for President Obama to win reelection in Wisconsin:

FITZGERALD: Well if they flip the state senate, which is obviously their goal with eight recalls going on right now, they can take control of the labor unions. If we win this battle, and the money is not there under the auspices of the unions, certainly what you’re going to find is President Obama is going to have a much difficult, much more difficult time getting elected and winning the state of Wisconsin.

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:57:54pm

re: #160 researchok

Questions:

How much of the problems are teachers fault?

How much are the fault of parents?

Is the school curriculum today effective or too overloaded?

Personally, I believe the parents shoulder a lot of blame. For too many, school is a baby sitting service. That attitude is another time bomb.

I don't think the curriculum is overloaded at all. In general, state standards tend to be good and getting better.

I think we have insufficient teacher training and support. I think we have insufficient funding, and funding that tends to leave poor areas out in the cold. I think that parents are fed unrealistic expectations, and the surrounding culture does not reward academic achievement--and I mean that for the rich as well as the poor.

I think we also have unrealistic plans for our students, and a deplorable fascination with ideology, partisanship and passing fads instead of good education.

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:58:04pm

re: #184 freetoken

one day, ONE DAY my fellow Wisconsin Republicans will no longer have to toil under the specter of the socialist black muslim oppressor

187 freetoken  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:58:12pm

re: #180 garhighway

Or, perhaps it means he no longer works hard?

In either case, hubris has led to idiocy.

188 garhighway  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:58:27pm

re: #184 freetoken

The whole attack on the education professions reeks of of manipulation, e.g.:

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

Just keep saying: "it's not about the budget".

Because it isn't. It's about a whole bunch of other stuff.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 2:59:13pm

re: #168 freetoken

Inside twisted minds:

Newt Gingrich says his love of country contributed to affair

Only an ego as big as Gingrich's could spin adultery into a sign of virtue.

So, Bill Clinton loved America so much that he was unable to leave his desk in the Oval, and had to get blow jobs there?

Newt, come ON!

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:00:08pm

re: #173 Sergey Romanov

A sort of comic relief for those who know the basics of history. I was re-reading the old unofficial LGF dictionary and my GAZE fell upon this:

*triple faceplam*

Wow.....

191 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:00:15pm

re: #188 garhighway

Just keep saying: "it's not about the budget".

Because it isn't. It's about a whole bunch of other stuff.


I just never believe any Republican who isn't local to me, who talks about the budget or fiscal responsibility, because they just are not credible

192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:00:32pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

So, Bill Clinton loved America so much that he was unable to leave his desk in the Oval, and had to get blow jobs there?

Newt, come ON!

It's so funny he actually thinks he's going to run

193 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:00:58pm

re: #181 Kruk

Anyone seen the latest bit of ant-abortion craziness? Indiana bill would require doctors to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, even though there is no credible scientific evidence that it does.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Heck, why not tell them abortions cause autism as well?

From your link:

In fact, the risk is actually increased for a short period after a woman carries a pregnancy to full term (i.e., gives birth to a child). According to ACS, these findings were considered "well established," which is the highest level for scientific evidence.

Which means, if everyone was honest, the folks at the "crisis pregnancy counseling centers" would have to tell women that giving birth increases the risk of breast cancer [for a short time].

194 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:02:05pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow...

Yeah, so much compressed into one phrase. "Muslim Kazaks". "Kazaks from Kazakstan". My head hurts.

195 researchok  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:02:21pm

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the curriculum is overloaded at all. In general, state standards tend to be good and getting better.

I think we have insufficient teacher training and support. I think we have insufficient funding, and funding that tends to leave poor areas out in the cold. I think that parents are fed unrealistic expectations, and the surrounding culture does not reward academic achievement--and I mean that for the rich as well as the poor.

I think we also have unrealistic plans for our students, and a deplorable fascination with ideology, partisanship and passing fads instead of good education.

Realistic solutions? Or am I whistling in the dark?

Is there a political will for meaningful change?

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:02:40pm

re: #194 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, so much compressed into one phrase. "Muslim Kazaks". "Kazaks from Kazakstan". My head hurts.

Was that written by crazies from the old days? :D

197 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:04:08pm

re: #133 Romantic Heretic

I'm not sure the strategic bombing campaigns did anything other than slow down the rate at which the Nazi weapons manufacturing expanded. The planes, bombs and bomb sights were just too primitive. This lead to huge civilian casualties to no good purpose.

I think hitting transportation worked a lot better although more dangerous to the aircrews involved. Sort of the difference between clubbing your opponent to death or poisoning them.

But that's due to our misinterpretation of Clausewitz.

All the above is my opinion, of course.

An excellent book on the subject is called "Among the Dead Cities" by A.C. Grayling.

He conducts a moral, philosophical and statistical analysis of the aerial war against Germany as waged by the United States and England. He finds that the US approach of bombing targets with actual war value to have been far superior to the British approach championed by Air Marshall "Bomber" Harris who advocated the cultural extermination of Germany and insisted on the wholesale obliteration of population centers right up to the end of the war. He was nearly cashiered for insubordination after being ordered to start bombing railroads instead of hapless civilians.

He retired in semi-disgrace after the war and returned to South Africa.

198 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:05:47pm

re: #184 freetoken

The whole attack on the education professions reeks of of manipulation, e.g.:

WI Senate GOP Leader Admits On-Air That His Goal Is To Defund Labor Unions, Hurt Obama’s Reelection Chances

They really want a one party state, and they will use the power invested in their offices to crush the Democrats.

199 Kruk  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:06:47pm

re: #193 wrenchwench

From your link:

Which means, if everyone was honest, the folks at the "crisis pregnancy counseling centers" would have to tell women that giving birth increases the risk of breast cancer [for a short time].

Doctors in the UK have said recently that abortion posed fewer health risks than carrying a pregnancy to term. It caused quite a firestorm.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

The question has to be asked, if carrying a pregnacy to term carries more health risks than an abortion, then is the "pro-life" camp actually endangering life? Other peoples lives, naturally.

200 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:07:41pm

re: #160 researchok

Questions:

How much of the problems are teachers fault?

How much are the fault of parents?

Is the school curriculum today effective or too overloaded?

Personally, I believe the parents shoulder a lot of blame. For too many, school is a baby sitting service. That attitude is another time bomb.

The UK has many of the same problems in schools.

The problem is the mandated testing - schools divert all resources to teach to the test leaving no space or time for the ancillaries that make school in any way fun for the youngest kids.

Teaching to a test does nothing but give you kids who can answer questions - but not in anyway think critically.

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:10:14pm

re: #181 Kruk

Anyone seen the latest bit of ant-abortion craziness? Indiana bill would require doctors to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, even though there is no credible scientific evidence that it does.

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Heck, why not tell them abortions cause autism as well?

They've been working on that one for years.

If they really want to get ahead, they should find some study that says abortion is linked to weight gain.

202 Kragar  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:11:29pm

re: #168 freetoken

Inside twisted minds:

Newt Gingrich says his love of country contributed to affair


Only an ego as big as Gingrich's could spin adultery into a sign of virtue.

"This contract with America gets me so hot. Yeah baby, do that with your hips while I go over this deregulation of the EPA. Oh you like that?"

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:12:24pm

re: #195 researchok

Realistic solutions? Or am I whistling in the dark?

Is there a political will for meaningful change?

I'm not sure, at this point.

204 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:13:32pm

Plat time is over....

Qaddafi bombs tanker in first blow to Libya's oil infrastructure

This guy needs to go now. Enough pussyfooting around.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:16:37pm

re: #199 Kruk

Doctors in the UK have said recently that abortion posed fewer health risks than carrying a pregnancy to term. It caused quite a firestorm.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

The question has to be asked, if carrying a pregnacy to term carries more health risks than an abortion, then is the "pro-life" camp actually endangering life? Other peoples lives, naturally.

Part of the ideology of the anti-abortion movement has been to systemically deny that pregnancy and childbirth are in any way dangerous or deleterious to a woman's health. This starts with an attempt to insist that there's never a medical need for an abortion, and ends up with statements that are just surreal.

206 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:18:34pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

They've been working on that one for years.

If they really want to get ahead, they should find some study that says abortion is linked to weight gain.

It's "well established" that pregnancy leads to weight gain. Gonna be difficult to get anyone to believe that abortion would do so even more. :)

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:19:22pm

re: #148 Romantic Heretic

I remember Babi Yar.

Believe it or not, deniers deny even this massacre, mentioned in at least 9 German war-time documents (not to mention all the witnesses).

208 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:19:32pm

re: #199 Kruk

Doctors in the UK have said recently that abortion posed fewer health risks than carrying a pregnancy to term. It caused quite a firestorm.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

The question has to be asked, if carrying a pregnacy to term carries more health risks than an abortion, then is the "pro-life" camp actually endangering life? Other peoples lives, naturally.

Adult women, specifically. Which puts the priority at the lowest setting....

209 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:22:10pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

It's "well established" that pregnancy leads to weight gain. Gonna be difficult to get anyone to believe that abortion would do so even more. :)

The medical condition fundies most associate with abortion is: "Boiling forever in a lake of fire". If that doesn't do it, a bit of baby weight isn't going to make a difference.

210 garhighway  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:22:47pm

Whoa!

Our budget problems are solved! See this:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Sample:

WASHINGTON—Sources on Capitol Hill have confirmed that visiting Swiss banker Maximilian Krieger met privately with President Barack Obama and congressional leaders Friday, offering the U.S. government the equivalent of $87.3 billion for one night with the entire population of Indiana.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:23:07pm

re: #209 Decatur Deb

The medical condition fundies most associate with abortion is: "Boiling forever in a lake of fire". If that doesn't do it, a bit of baby weight isn't going to make a difference.

But they want to make inroads among people who don't share their religious beliefs, which is where lying about links to breast cancer and suicide come in.

212 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:24:01pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

But they want to make inroads among people who don't share their religious beliefs, which is where lying about links to breast cancer and suicide come in.

and lying about contraception.

213 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:25:09pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

But they want to make inroads among people who don't share their religious beliefs, which is where lying about links to breast cancer and suicide come in.

The confluence of fundamentalism and quackery, whee

214 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:25:41pm

re: #213 WindUpBird

The confluence of fundamentalism and quackery, whee

The fifteenth century called - they want their schtick back.

215 Girth  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:26:14pm

re: #208 wrenchwench

Adult women, specifically. Which puts the priority at the lowest setting...

Haven't quite hit the bottom yet...

Although abortion rates have declined among all racial and ethnic groups, large disparities persist, with Hispanic and black women having the procedure at rates three to five times the rate of white women.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

There it is.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:26:35pm

re: #214 wozzablog

The fifteenth century called - they want their schtick back.

"Thumbscrews are illegal to use on women seeking an abortion? Why I never!"

217 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:28:08pm

Poll: Public prefers cutting defense spending

The poll found 51 percent of Americans support reducing defense spending, and only 28 percent want to cut Medicare and Medicaid health programs for the elderly and poor. A mere 18 percent back cuts in the Social Security retirement program.

once again we see that magic figure of 27% - 28% of americans who give the most brain dead answer to so many polls on public policy. but, judging by the 18% percent who back ss cuts, even the special knowledge killing kryptonite of the koch bros and fox news only goes so far...

218 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:28:28pm

re: #214 wozzablog

The fifteenth century called - they want their schtick back.

I remember this book from my highschool library:

The Thirteenth, Greatest of Centuries


[Link: www.amazon.com...]

219 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:29:21pm

re: #216 WindUpBird

"Thumbscrews are illegal to use on women seeking an abortion? Why I never!"

The healthy mother is expendable............the collection of cells slowly atrophying and completely nonviable if carried to term is not to be harmed in anyway.........

220 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:30:47pm

re: #218 Decatur Deb

I remember this book from my highschool library:

The Thirteenth, Greatest of Centuries

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

All down hill after that if you ask me.

It truly was a golden age - the closest they had to 4chan was Chaucer.

221 BishopX  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:33:14pm

re: #195 researchok

Realistic solutions? Or am I whistling in the dark?

Is there a political will for meaningful change?

The thing is, teaching is a profession. In fact it's one of the only professions where it's considered okay for some outsider to come in and tell you how to do it. If a politician ran on a platform that included making surgeons try new ideas on patients they would be ridiculed. If they ran ran on platform of having civil engineers compete for funding based on how fast they could certify bridges they would get ignored as a flake. If a politician had the gall to suggest they would require lawyers be paid on the basis of trial outcomes they would be sued into oblivion. These things happen to teachers every damn election cycle. Every politician has a plan to fix education, and all of them involve mucking around with how teachers teach.

If you gave teachers the kind of administrative support you give doctors, lawyers and engineers, pay them a professional wage and expect them to follow pedagogical standards rather than a checklist of subjects covered...you would go a long way towards fixing the educational system. We've got close to 2000 years of records on education, more than 100 of them under scientific discipline. We have a good idea of what a good education looks like and many good ideas of how to get there.

Let the teachers teach and you can go a long way towards solving the "education deficit".

222 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:38:47pm

[Link: mobile.salon.com...]

Good article in Slate, re: NPR & O'keeffe

223 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:38:57pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

Ooo you're still here :) Korelitz was the shtetl. I knew it would come to me.

224 Neutral President  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:40:05pm

re: #220 wozzablog

All down hill after that if you ask me.

It truly was a golden age - the closest they had to 4chan was Chaucer.

"Hu wyrcaþ magnets?" (best I could do)

225 webevintage  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:41:53pm

re: #217 engineer dog


once again we see that magic figure of 27% - 28% of americans who give the most brain dead answer to so many polls on public policy.

"The Crazification Factor may turn out to be the seminal theory of our time."
[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

226 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:43:18pm

re: #220 wozzablog

All down hill after that if you ask me.

It truly was a golden age - the closest they had to 4chan was Chaucer.


re: #224 ArchangelMichael

"Hu wyrcaþ magnets?" (best I could do)


XIIIth Cent pron:

Image: 4429838695_25c3a0c813.jpg

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:44:01pm

re: #224 ArchangelMichael

"Hu wyrcaþ magnets?" (best I could do)

Was there anything like "fukin"? It's not complete without that.

228 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:44:10pm

re: #226 Decatur Deb

re: #224 ArchangelMichael


XIIIth Cent pron:

Image: 4429838695_25c3a0c813.jpg

And doth the hor-ned beaft did rife.......

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:44:15pm

re: #54 marjoriemoon

I think the Turner Diaries were linked to McVeigh? Or mentioned at that time, but it's probably somewhat obscure if you didn't follow it super closely.

I remember some wannbe Muslim AlQuaida link to McVeigh, but I don't remember the Turner Diaries.

Remember the biggest groups in SuperMax are Whacko Jihadi's and Neo-Nazi's.

Both groups take young, unbalanced men and twist them even more. . . ..Personally, I think there is a pattern.

230 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:45:17pm

re: #225 webevintage

"The Crazification Factor may turn out to be the seminal theory of our time."
[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

ha!

validation of my flat brain theory!

231 Neutral President  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:48:42pm

re: #227 Sergey Romanov

Was there anything like "fukin"? It's not complete without that.

I think the infinitive form of the verb in anglo-saxon was "fucian" but I'm not sure how to turn it into a adjective.

232 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:49:30pm

re: #220 wozzablog

All down hill after that if you ask me.

There's my opening.

Here are four and a half minutes to make your palms sweat. (actually, only three and a quarter minutes if you don't count the congratulations and photo-snapping at the bottom.)

Youtube Video

I better stock up on purple handlebars.

233 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:51:18pm

I just realized that if I could collect and bottle the sarcasm at LGF I could get rich selling it as an alternative energy source.

234 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:51:31pm

re: #231 ArchangelMichael

I think the infinitive form of the verb in anglo-saxon was "fucian" but I'm not sure how to turn it into a adjective.

First proven trace "fuccant' from 1475:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

235 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:52:02pm

re: #232 wrenchwench

as a man, all i can say after watching some of those bumps is "new balls please"......

236 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:55:25pm

BREAKING NEWS: Wis. GOP to vote at 7 p.m. ET to strip union bargaining rights, source tells NBC

seems that they will strip the collective bargaining part out by itself and pass it without a quorum as a non-budget item

thug bastards

237 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:55:42pm

re: #232 wrenchwench

OMG Watch out for the puppy! And the stairs! and the Ramps!

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:55:55pm

re: #105 RadicalModerate

I haven't been following the debate in Michigan regarding the Emergency Financial Manager Bill that's being debated in the state Legislature, but now that I've seen this -

Oh my fucking god.

Emergency Financial Manager bill on the verge of passage

That's right. One person, appointed by the Governor will have the power to nullify contracts, dissolve local governments, and overturn any law they don't like. This is beyond insane.

I don't have long to stay, so I'll check back later to see if anyone responds. I know that Michigan (Detroit) at least is in dire economic straits. Does the Bill have a time-limit on it? I was just wondering what are the protocols when a city or large community is in such bad shape it truly threatens the rest of the State. Should some sort of Emergency Powers policy, but not like Rome and Cincinnatus.

Is it a State or Federal thing?

239 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:56:28pm

re: #232 wrenchwench

There's my opening.

Here are four and a half minutes to make your palms sweat. (actually, only three and a quarter minutes if you don't count the congratulations and photo-snapping at the bottom.)


[Video]I better stock up on purple handlebars.

My palms didn't sweat, but my eyes crossed.

I. could. not. do. that.

240 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:56:56pm

re: #232 wrenchwench

that was fun....thanks
loved the dog

241 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:57:43pm

re: #237 marjoriemoon

OMG Watch out for the puppy! And the stairs! and the Ramps!

Do they not have any flat horizontal streets there?

242 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:58:01pm

re: #232 wrenchwench

Maniac was laughing at 4:30.

243 blueraven  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:58:10pm

re: #236 engineer dog

BREAKING NEWS: Wis. GOP to vote at 7 p.m. ET to strip union bargaining rights, source tells NBC

seems that they will strip the collective bargaining part out by itself and pass it without a quorum as a non-budget item

thug bastards

How can hey do that with a straight face after fiercely defending it as a budgetary matter? Never mind...

A-holes!

244 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:58:20pm

re: #236 engineer dog

BREAKING NEWS: Wis. GOP to vote at 7 p.m. ET to strip union bargaining rights, source tells NBC

seems that they will strip the collective bargaining part out by itself and pass it without a quorum as a non-budget item

thug bastards

As soon as the Democrats get back in - hopefully that will be reversed. But i can't write what i want, or i would be hit by a time out.

Yeah, i've sworn here before - copiously - but my blood is boiling.

245 What, me worry?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:59:06pm

re: #241 b_sharp

Do they not have any flat horizontal streets there?

lol Ok, how long has it been since we had a bicycle thread?? I think that qualifies!

246 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:59:33pm

re: #222 Negativ

I am profoundly retarded and also illiterate, in case that wasn't previously clear.

Actual working link:
NPR caves to O'Keefe -- and we all lose

Sting operations conducted by law enforcement officials have a dubious record themselves, but at least they require oversight and must meet court standards of evidence. For public actors like James O'Keefe, the oversight, we assume, is performed by the media. The press prides itself for serving as truth's first line of defense, democracy's bullshit filter. This week it failed in a big way.

The larger problem here isn't Viv Schiller's ultimate fate, and it's not even the final disposition of congressional funding for NPR -- an institution I admire in many ways but which, let's face it, we'd survive without.

The problem is we are crediting creeps and letting liars take over our public discourse.

247 kirkspencer  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 3:59:34pm

re: #13 Obdicut

Sergey can tell you how many handle the second point: they say that the trials were coerced kangaroo courts where those poor, poor Nazi defendants were threatened into supporting the fabricated story the British and the Americans had made up (for no apparent reason.)

Yeah.

One of my uncles was one of the soldiers who relieved Flossenburg. Ironically, his unit bypassed the POW camp at which his brother, another of my uncles (obviously), was being held.

Direct witness plus pictures trumps hot air.

248 simoom  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:00:06pm

re: #236 engineer dog

BREAKING NEWS: Wis. GOP to vote at 7 p.m. ET to strip union bargaining rights, source tells NBC

seems that they will strip the collective bargaining part out by itself and pass it without a quorum as a non-budget item

Hmm. I suppose the Unions and the Dem lawmakers could continue to hold up the budget until the Repubs repeal the collective bargaining changes, but for whatever reason that feels like they'd be arguing from a substantially weakened position.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:01:09pm

re: #146 EmmmieG

Catholic. My ancestors were Catholic Germans who came to America in 1848, so my research is all before that.

My family is RC that came from Bavaria about the same time. I can't remember the exact date. Great, great grandfather fought from Napoleon in Russia.

250 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:05:59pm

re: #247 kirkspencer

Yeah.

One of my uncles was one of the soldiers who relieved Flossenburg. Ironically, his unit bypassed the POW camp at which his brother, another of my uncles (obviously), was being held.

Direct witness plus pictures trumps hot air.

wow....some incredible stories there and I hope they were related down through the family...my dad was with the Marines for the duration in the Pacific...his brother flew P51s with the 8th AF and his two cousins flew the same out of Italy...three Mustang pilots in one family, and a turd killing Japanese in the islands...we had tons of stories

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:06:43pm

Have a great evening all!

252 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:09:40pm

re: #248 simoom

Hmm. I suppose the Unions and the Dem lawmakers could continue to hold up the budget until the Repubs repeal the collective bargaining changes, but for whatever reason that feels like they'd be arguing from a substantially weakened position.

it will all get sorted out in time...the beloved unions will have their bargaining power again and all will return to something close to normal...it's just such a waste of precious time, and nicely or not, the GOP has been exposed...it will all pass

253 McSpiff  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:10:08pm

Was going to start eating well. Got a Blue Cheese and Bacon burger from local restaurant. Regret nothing.

254 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:10:10pm

re: #244 wozzablog

As soon as the Democrats get back in - hopefully that will be reversed. But i can't write what i want, or i would be hit by a time out.

Yeah, i've sworn here before - copiously - but my blood is boiling.

Live streaming WI conference committee here:
[Link: wiseye.org...]

I saw about 30 seconds before the network screeched to a halt, and it was about as raucous as you'd imagine.

255 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:10:52pm

re: #249 ggt

My family is RC that came from Bavaria about the same time. I can't remember the exact date. Great, great grandfather fought from Napoleon in Russia.

not enough 'greats'

256 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:12:47pm

re: #252 albusteve

it will all get sorted out in time...the beloved unions will have their bargaining power again and all will return to something close to normal...it's just such a waste of precious time, and nicely or not, the GOP has been exposed...it will all pass

Yes, it will be a setback, but worth it.

257 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:13:09pm

re: #254 negativ

Live streaming WI conference committee here:
[Link: wiseye.org...]

I saw about 30 seconds before the network screeched to a halt, and it was about as raucous as you'd imagine.

Well, one of the scumbags town halls was closed after 27 minutes because the crowd were "raucous" (read, "in favour of unions". Like those scumfuks hadn't taken advantage the other year. Hypo-effin-critical scum.

258 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:14:14pm

New York TV exec gets 25 years to life for wife's beheading


The sentence was the maximum amount Franczyk could impose under state law, said Erie County District Attorney Frank Sedita. He said the sentence was "a perfectly appropriate sentence under the circumstances and considering the violent nature of the crime and a lack of genuine remorse by the defendant."

The sentence basically means life, he said -- Hassan will not be "eligible to talk to the parole board" for 25 years. "The chances of him getting out before his sentence is completed is not going to happen," Sedita said.

259 simoom  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:14:21pm

re: #236 engineer dog

BREAKING NEWS: Wis. GOP to vote at 7 p.m. ET to strip union bargaining rights, source tells NBC

seems that they will strip the collective bargaining part out by itself and pass it without a quorum as a non-budget item

[Link: host.madison.com...]

In a surprise move late Wednesday, Senate Republicans voted to move forward with the governor's controversial budget repair bill, sending the measure to a Senate-Assembly conference committee to craft a new version that both houses will vote on.

Republican leaders would only say the Senate bill differed from the Assembly bill and, after voting to take up a couple of Assembly amendments, indicated it was possible that lawmakers could strip fiscal elements from the proposal and pass only measures dealing with collective bargaining.

Such a move could allow Republicans to pass the governor's bill without the 20 Senate members needed to vote on fiscal matters. Currently 14 Democratic senators remain in Illinois, hiding out in an effort to deny the quorum and stall the vote.

If the Republicans move forward with their plans, it would be a major reversal for Gov. Scott Walker and Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald, R-Juneau. Both have contended that the bill is fiscal in nature and thus the collective bargaining could not be stripped from the measure.

260 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:15:13pm

I'm out.

Laters.

261 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:15:24pm

re: #254 negativ

Live streaming WI conference committee here:
[Link: wiseye.org...]

I saw about 30 seconds before the network screeched to a halt, and it was about as raucous as you'd imagine.

Thanks for the link but it's not loading for me. I guess the site's getting slammed.

262 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:18:08pm

re: #256 Decatur Deb

Yes, it will be a setback, but worth it.

unions have been a target for the GOP for decades, it's no surprise to me what's gone down in WI and other states...and it will become more widespread as time goes by...there is some legitimacy to their argument regarding union power especially since unions are a vault of money that goes to the Dems...but any argument here is futile and we are an echo chamber as far as unions go....few can see or admit their corrosive effect on national politics and local budgets...whatever, I just go with the flow

263 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:19:06pm

re: #236 engineer dog

BREAKING NEWS: Wis. GOP to vote at 7 p.m. ET to strip union bargaining rights, source tells NBC

seems that they will strip the collective bargaining part out by itself and pass it without a quorum as a non-budget item

thug bastards

I think this is a situation that calls for.... diversity...

264 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:19:23pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

New York TV exec gets 25 years to life for wife's beheading

cool, read that earlier
he's a gonner

265 Tigger2005  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:20:18pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

By the way if I ever encounter a neo-Nazi, I think one of the first questions I'd ask would be if Hitler were so great, why did his incompetency cost Germany the war

Why, Germany was stabbed in the back by the Joooooossss of course. Oh, wait, that was WW1. By the time WW2 ended, there weren't any Jews around to blame for the loss.

No, what am I thinking! It was an international Zionist cabal that brought Germany down in WW2. That's the ticket.

266 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:20:50pm

re: #262 albusteve

unions have been a target for the GOP for decades, it's no surprise to me what's gone down in WI and other states...and it will become more widespread as time goes by...there is some legitimacy to their argument regarding union power especially since unions are a vault of money that goes to the Dems...but any argument here is futile and we are an echo chamber as far as unions go...few can see or admit their corrosive effect on national politics and local budgets...whatever, I just go with the flow

Yes--it's supposed to be a struggle. If either side gets overwhelming power, even my union side, abuses are certain.

267 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:24:24pm

re: #262 albusteve

but any argument here is futile and we are an echo chamber as far as unions go...few can see or admit their corrosive effect on national politics and local budgets...whatever, I just go with the flow


I don't think it's really about the futility and echo chamber. I'm just not so sure there's an honest case to be made in favor of union busting. Sure there are legitimate concerns about unions and the balance of power between workers and employers but let's face it: Public school teachers are not evil fat cats draining the system. They are very poorly paid and perhaps better pay and working conditions might result in attracting better teachers. Better teachers resulting in smarter and more successful children which would make a better future for the country.

268 Tigger2005  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:25:14pm

re: #265 Tigger2005

Why, Germany was stabbed in the back by the Jooosss of course. Oh, wait, that was WW1. By the time WW2 ended, there weren't any Jews around to blame for the loss.

No, what am I thinking! It was an international Zionist cabal that brought Germany down in WW2. That's the ticket.

But, of course, you then have to wonder, if the Aryan Race is so gosh-darn superior, why were those subhuman Jooosss able to outsmart and beat'em?

No, wait, what am I thinking! It's because the Aryan Superman is simple, forthright and honest and cannot comprehend the subtle and devious workings of the Jewish mind.

269 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:26:31pm

Some lizard egg shells are quite thick and difficult to break through.

imayers

(Logged in)
Registered since: Mar 6, 2008 at 4:04 pm
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of Pages posted: 0

Or something.

270 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:26:38pm

re: #268 Tigger2005

But, of course, you then have to wonder, if the Aryan Race is so gosh-darn superior, why were those subhuman Jooosss able to outsmart and beat'em?

No, wait, what am I thinking! It's because the Aryan Superman is simple, forthright and honest and cannot comprehend the subtle and devious workings of the Jewish mind.

///Also the jooos breed like cockroaches and bring down the superman through superior numbers just like those cursed Slavic Untermensch...

271 Ming  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:31:08pm

Since the guy is a domestic terrorist suspect, I wonder if some Republicans would be in favor of torturing him, just in case it might save some lives. Oops, pardon me, I forgot he's white, so I would assume that Republicans would want him to be represented by a lawyer, and be presumed innocent.

272 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:34:06pm

re: #270 jamesfirecat

///Also the jooos breed like cockroaches and bring down the superman through superior numbers just like those cursed Slavic Untermensch...

That's just me and my jewterus.

273 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:36:28pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's really about the futility and echo chamber. I'm just not so sure there's an honest case to be made in favor of union busting. Sure there are legitimate concerns about unions and the balance of power between workers and employers but let's face it: Public school teachers are not evil fat cats draining the system. They are very poorly paid and perhaps better pay and working conditions might result in attracting better teachers. Better teachers resulting in smarter and more successful children which would make a better future for the country.

unions are hotbeds of abuse and corruption...not every union and certainly not all members are corrupt but it has become a situation that must be dealt with...I'm not anti-union, I'm anti-corruption...check out the disability scandal that has rocked the LIRR for a few years now, and that's just one example...my mom was a union elementary ed teacher for over 30 years and I witnessed how much effort she put into her career and she was never compensated enough....teachers unions are the least of a municipalities budget woes, but paying a teacher off the job for whatever reason until tenure can be breached and the person fired is unexceptable..the entire education system needs a serious shakedown and unions become part of the problem when they resent and try to prevent that

274 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:38:14pm

re: #220 wozzablog

All down hill after that if you ask me.

It truly was a golden age - the closest they had to 4chan was Chaucer.

I gave a short speech once about ten years ago at a fraternity convention dinner to a room full of engineering students. My chosen subject was "The More Things Change, the More They Remain the Same." So I used it to review various fraternity policies, longstanding internal debate subjects (found an subject that the convention had been bringing up now and again for 70+ years.)

And I closed with a quote from a letter written by a merchant in Oxford in the 1200s. Which essentially was a rant that the students didn't study much, they chased women and got drunk most of the time, and that they were a bad influence on the community. All couched in Auld English of course, but the point was pretty clear.

:)

275 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:38:52pm

re: #271 Ming

Since the guy is a domestic terrorist suspect, I wonder if some Republicans would be in favor of torturing him, just in case it might save some lives. Oops, pardon me, I forgot he's white, so I would assume that Republicans would want him to be represented by a lawyer, and be presumed innocent.

You mean like Gitmo, which hasn't closed yet... oh... Oh, I forgot, Obama is keeping it open... so I assume anything that goes on there is all right with this administration.

276 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:40:16pm

re: #273 albusteve

unions are hotbeds of abuse and corruption...not every union and certainly not all members are corrupt but it has become a situation that must be dealt with...I'm not anti-union, I'm anti-corruption...check out the disability scandal that has rocked the LIRR for a few years now, and that's just one example...my mom was a union elementary ed teacher for over 30 years and I witnessed how much effort she put into her career and she was never compensated enough...teachers unions are the least of a municipalities budget woes, but paying a teacher off the job for whatever reason until tenure can be breached and the person fired is unexceptable..the entire education system needs a serious shakedown and unions become part of the problem when they resent and try to prevent that


The LIRR story is not a union issue. It's about alleged abuse of the railroad industry workers' comp system, and poor agency regulation.

277 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:41:06pm

re: #275 Walter L. Newton

You mean like Gitmo, which hasn't closed yet... oh... Oh, I forgot, Obama is keeping it open... so I assume anything that goes on there is all right with this administration.

dems will resist the notion but the Gitmo case is a serious black eye for BO the Rookie and Rube Holder...a couple of real smart guys there eh?

278 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:42:25pm

re: #274 oaktree

I gave a short speech once about ten years ago at a fraternity convention dinner to a room full of engineering students. My chosen subject was "The More Things Change, the More They Remain the Same." So I used it to review various fraternity policies, longstanding internal debate subjects (found an subject that the convention had been bringing up now and again for 70+ years.)

And I closed with a quote from a letter written by a merchant in Oxford in the 1200s. Which essentially was a rant that the students didn't study much, they chased women and got drunk most of the time, and that they were a bad influence on the community. All couched in Auld English of course, but the point was pretty clear.

:)

On that note here is the world's oldest Lolcat....

279 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:46:14pm

Bleh. I hate computers sometimes. Any techies around?

280 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:47:21pm

re: #278 jamesfirecat

On that note here is the world's oldest Lolcat...

From your link:

The differences are clear. Proper grammar and a more formal tone was in vogue back then. But the similarities to modern-day kitten struggles and lolcats are amazing. ALL CAPS is still cool, but most importantly, she also no can has cheezburger. More than a hundred years later, all that’s changed is the spelling.

hee hee

281 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:47:58pm

re: #273 albusteve

the entire education system needs a serious shakedown and unions become part of the problem when they resent and try to prevent that


There are many issues with education. Mainly insufficient funding, resources, infrastructure, low standards, little innovation, etc. If this was really about the quality of education I think unions would be pretty low on the priority list.

282 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:49:12pm

re: #279 Jadespring

Bleh. I hate computers sometimes. Any techies around?

Mash all the buttons, jiggle the wires, reboot and dump your cookies.
/The extent of my knowledge.

283 Jaerik  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:50:08pm

re: #281 Killgore Trout

There are many issues with education. Mainly insufficient funding, resources, infrastructure....

I apologize for the cardinal sin of popping in with commentary having not read the entire thread, but the US spends more per student than any nation in the world except Switzerland and Austria.

284 jamesfirecat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:51:21pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

Mash all the buttons, jiggle the wires, reboot and dump your cookies.
/The extent of my knowledge.

You forgot is it plugged in?

If No: Plug it in.

If Yes: Unplug it, plug it back in and try again from the start.

285 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:52:15pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

Mash all the buttons, jiggle the wires, reboot and dump your cookies.
/The extent of my knowledge.

Heh. I'm about ready to throw it out the window.

286 Jaerik  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:55:58pm

re: #283 Jaerik

I apologize for the cardinal sin of popping in with commentary having not read the entire thread, but the US spends more per student than any nation in the world except Switzerland and Austria.

Double-apology for not providing source. That one's only for secondary school spending, but just about every statistic puts us close to the top for actually dollars spent per student.

The problem is more analogous to the health care debate, where we spend an enormous amount of money yet somehow totally fail to turn it into an effective payoffs in terms of health or life expectancy.

287 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:57:07pm

re: #285 Jadespring

Heh. I'm about ready to throw it out the window.

Is Microsoft Flight Simulator installed?

288 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:57:08pm

re: #285 Jadespring

Heh. I'm about ready to throw it out the window.

It is well known, through extensive experimentation, that computers cannot fly when chucked out the window.

What's up?

289 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 4:58:55pm

re: #283 Jaerik

I apologize for the cardinal sin of popping in with commentary having not read the entire thread, but the US spends more per student than any nation in the world except Switzerland and Austria.

That's ok. It seems we're in the middle of the pack for spending per student in the Western World (page 3 - PDF) I'm surprised to see Iceland so far down on that list.

290 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:02:02pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

That's ok. It seems we're in the middle of the pack for spending per student in the Western World (page 3 - PDF) I'm surprised to see Iceland so far down on that list.

That's because they waste all that money on volcano monitoring and other worthless science projects like that...
//

291 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:02:16pm

re: #286 Jaerik

Double-apology for not providing source. That one's only for secondary school spending, but just about every statistic puts us close to the top for actually dollars spent per student.

The problem is more analogous to the health care debate, where we spend an enormous amount of money yet somehow totally fail to turn it into an effective payoffs in terms of health or life expectancy.

Agreed. Like I said there are a lot of factors. We can certainly spend money more wisely but I stand by my central point that teather's unions are very low on the priority list when it comes to the quality of education. If this was really about education then unions would be pretty low on the list.

292 Jaerik  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:04:11pm

re: #291 Killgore Trout

Agreed. Like I said there are a lot of factors. We can certainly spend money more wisely but I stand by my central point that teather's unions are very low on the priority list when it comes to the quality of education. If this was really about education then unions would be pretty low on the list.

Yeah, hence my apology for contributing without context. I agree with your conclusion, just not on the raw spending rationale. =)

293 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:05:15pm

Whoever is doing SXSW, keep an eye out for Jack White's mobile record store [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

294 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:05:37pm

re: #288 b_sharp

It is well known, through extensive experimentation, that computers cannot fly when chucked out the window.

What's up?

Well I got my computer back. They said it was the ram. All four ram sticks tested not working so they said that the removed them and reset them, tested them again and things seemed to be working. So now it is working, i'm not getting blue screens but I keep getting "Host Process Services stopped working and had to be stopped pop ups. Occasionally just before that flashes on I see something about the 'remote access manager not working'.

Also I can't hook up to the internet. The network connections window looks different then before and won't let me make any sort of connection through the wizard. dial-up, broadband or what I'm trying to use a mobile stick.

295 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:06:10pm

Oh it's Vista 64 bit.

296 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:08:44pm

re: #295 Jadespring

Oh it's Vista 64 bit.

memory is cheap...I have 6megs of RAM and I hardly even use the damned thing

297 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:10:30pm

re: #296 albusteve

memory is cheap...I have 6 gigs of RAM and I hardly even use the damned thing

Fixt?

298 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:11:30pm

re: #295 Jadespring

Oh it's Vista 64 bit.

If they're Cyberdyne chips you might want to keep an eye on the comp and make sure it's not a T-1000 prototype in disguise.

299 albusteve  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:11:48pm

re: #297 talon_262

Fixt?

yes, thanks
obviously I'm not RamBO

300 Flavia  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:14:12pm

re: #11 HappyWarrior

By the way if I ever encounter a neo-Nazi, I think one of the first questions I'd ask would be if Hitler were so great, why did his incompetency cost Germany the war or better yet since they're likely to be Holocaust deniers why at Nuremberg none of the defendants denied the existence of the camps but rather tried to shift blame. I'll say this. After visiting the site of Dachau in 2008, I challenge anyone to deny what happened.

Now, me, I'd ask why there are tall, blonde, blue eyed Jews while Hitler was a shrimpy dark little guy, Goebbels was walking rodent & Goerring a hippo in lipstick, & yet people believed the theory they were pushing. But I like on-your-face obviousness....

301 Stanghazi  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:14:43pm

OK, what just happened in Wisconsin?

302 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:15:06pm

HBO is preparing a Sarah Palin flick, based on the 2008 campaign book:

[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com...]

303 Gus  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:19:29pm

You know. I've about had it with the stalker bullshit.

304 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:20:19pm

re: #294 Jadespring

Well I got my computer back. They said it was the ram. All four ram sticks tested not working so they said that the removed them and reset them, tested them again and things seemed to be working. So now it is working, i'm not getting blue screens but I keep getting "Host Process Services stopped working and had to be stopped pop ups. Occasionally just before that flashes on I see something about the 'remote access manager not working'.

Also I can't hook up to the internet. The network connections window looks different then before and won't let me make any sort of connection through the wizard. dial-up, broadband or what I'm trying to use a mobile stick.

mmmm sounds to me like the operating system installation is forblunget

probably the best thing is to figure out how you can re-install vista - or windows 7 preferably if you can get ahold of it

305 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:21:37pm

re: #294 Jadespring

Well I got my computer back. They said it was the ram. All four ram sticks tested not working so they said that the removed them and reset them, tested them again and things seemed to be working. So now it is working, i'm not getting blue screens but I keep getting "Host Process Services stopped working and had to be stopped pop ups. Occasionally just before that flashes on I see something about the 'remote access manager not working'.

Also I can't hook up to the internet. The network connections window looks different then before and won't let me make any sort of connection through the wizard. dial-up, broadband or what I'm trying to use a mobile stick.

That sounds like you have VPN or RDP set up. Is anyone supposed to access your system from outside your house?

The RAM tested not working and all they did was re-seat them and then claim it's now OK? Where did you send the system, to a manufacturer authorized repair depot, or just a local shop?

306 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:24:55pm

re: #304 engineer dog

mmm sounds to me like the operating system installation is forblunget

probably the best thing is to figure out how you can re-install vista - or windows 7 preferably if you can get ahold of it

My computer is set up with the reinstall in a partition or something. I have no idea how to do it from that.


On a positive note. I just figured out how to get Dragon Age II to work. Only took 3 hours. It needed an internet connection to do some sort of secure check thing to verify I bought it. Very frustrating when you can't connect! However I finally through some googling figured out a work around. Ended up downloading an illegal crack to work around the DRM. How's that for irony. Paid 60 bucks for the durn thing and ended up having to illegally crack it open to play it.

307 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:26:02pm

re: #305 b_sharp

That sounds like you have VPN or RDP set up. Is anyone supposed to access your system from outside your house?

The RAM tested not working and all they did was re-seat them and then claim it's now OK? Where did you send the system, to a manufacturer authorized repair depot, or just a local shop?

I took it to where I bought it. Staples/Business Depot.

308 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:28:02pm

re: #306 Jadespring

My computer is set up with the reinstall in a partition or something. I have no idea how to do it from that.

On a positive note. I just figured out how to get Dragon Age II to work. Only took 3 hours. It needed an internet connection to do some sort of secure check thing to verify I bought it. Very frustrating when you can't connect! However I finally through some googling figured out a work around. Ended up downloading an illegal crack to work around the DRM. How's that for irony. Paid 60 bucks for the durn thing and ended up having to illegally crack it open to play it.

Can you go into the control panel, then System, then device manager and tell me if you have any exclamation points or Xs showing?

309 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:28:37pm

re: #307 Jadespring

I took it to where I bought it. Staples/Business Depot.

What brand of system is it?

310 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:28:57pm

re: #305 b_sharp

That sounds like you have VPN or RDP set up. Is anyone supposed to access your system from outside your house?

Nope. It worked fine before. I just loaded up the software that came on the stick and it connected fine. However when I go the nettwork connection screen now it looks different then before. And I get the 'Windows host shut down pop up'. The pop also comes up when I go into the control panel and click Adminstrative tools.

311 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:29:19pm

re: #309 b_sharp

What brand of system is it?

HP

312 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:29:54pm

re: #162 WindUpBird

I have my suspicions about the American teach-to-the-test system actually ruining students' ability to critically think

The problem has its circular aspect. Whatever test is used becomes a political football. Various stakeholders want to see good results. The easiest way to jack up the scores is always to water down the test.

Other people are looking at the test, though, and if the test is too obviously watered, good scores don't impress anyone. The politician or bureaucrat trying to navigate this minefield is drawn to a solution: make the test look as if it had content, but gut every question of difficulties that might undercut the scores.

Suppose you're writing a test item over the concept of limits. You don't care whether the students taking the test actually understand. You just want them to look good, because that makes your system look good. What to do?

Don't ask for the limit as n goes to infinity of 1 over (n-2). People might answer 1/n -1/2 goes to 0 -1/2 and circle "-1/2". Instead, ask for the limit as n goes to infinity of 1 over n. You'll get more correct answers.

Teachers, many of whom would dearly love to teach concepts, find themselves in a trap. It's easier to teach rote response tricks than it is to teach how to come to grips with a problem and arrive at an answer. It's also more effective in the short run: students will do better on a gutted, watered test if you teach to the test, than if you waste time and effort trying to get them to where they understand.

Down the road, this all unravels. Students who were fortunate enough to have teachers who steadfastly strove to instill conceptual understanding have a foundation for further progress that the others do not.

But---the conceptual teacher pays a price. Nobody looks at how well her/his students do down the road.

These watered tests and short time horizon evaluations of effectiveness steer teachers, almost to the point of compulsion, into "teaching to the test".

There can be no honest evaluation of teacher merit without honest tests. These tests exist, and they're used for international comparisons, for contests, and for the NAEP, but they're NOT used in this loop I'm talking about.

313 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:30:20pm

re: #310 Jadespring

Nope. It worked fine before. I just loaded up the software that came on the stick and it connected fine. However when I go the nettwork connection screen now it looks different then before. And I get the 'Windows host shut down pop up'. The pop also comes up when I go into the control panel and click Adminstrative tools.

Some of those BSoDs (Blue Screen on Death) may have scrambled a system file or two.

314 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:32:59pm

re: #311 Jadespring

HP

Did you want to do a system restore?

Depending on which route you choose, you could end up losing all of your data, so back up what you need.

315 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:33:40pm

I have to take the grandkid home, so I'll be away from the 'puter for a while.

316 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:34:27pm

re: #300 Flavia

Now, me, I'd ask why there are tall, blonde, blue eyed Jews while Hitler was a shrimpy dark little guy, Goebbels was walking rodent & Goerring a hippo in lipstick, & yet people believed the theory they were pushing. But I like on-your-face obviousness...

My favorite couple of moments, in conversation with a gen-yoo-wine unreconstructed not-neo Nazi, were the time he brought up how the Germans had some really superb soldiers, truly elite fighters...and I chirped in and rambled on about how the German paratroopers had put up an epic defense of Monte Cassino and you had to grant that as fighting men and junior leadership went they were top notch.

(blithely sliding past his pet SS.)

And, when he raised the point that the Allies had got lucky when the Germans didn't mount a prompt counterattack on D-Day and thrown us Yankees into the sea.

And I said well yes that was a spot of luck for us, but really, also a spot of luck for Germany.

Because why?

Because that way, Berlin didn't have to be Hiroshima.

Da-dum.

317 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:34:34pm

re: #308 b_sharp

Can you go into the control panel, then System, then device manager and tell me if you have any exclamation points or Xs showing?

Actually the game is going now and at least it seems to be working fine. Smooth as butter, or at least the intro is.

Hold on, exiting....

318 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:35:23pm

re: #315 b_sharp

I have to take the grandkid home, so I'll be away from the 'puter for a while.

Okay. I'm just going to play the game then and worry about this later maybe?

319 Jadespring  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:36:53pm

re: #314 b_sharp

Did you want to do a system restore?

Depending on which route you choose, you could end up losing all of your data, so back up what you need.

Yeah that would be cool. Everything is already backed up on an external drive. When you have time, if you could help that would be great.

320 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:41:04pm

re: #271 Ming

Since the guy is a domestic terrorist suspect, I wonder if some Republicans would be in favor of torturing him, just in case it might save some lives. Oops, pardon me, I forgot he's white, so I would assume that Republicans would want him to be represented by a lawyer, and be presumed innocent.

Actually, if he had actionable intelligence and time was short, I wouldn't insist on hooking him up to a car battery or anything, but hard beds, boring food, bad music, bright lights, and short sleep rations would be justified I think. It's not like ordinary civilians never have to put up with any of that.

The presumption of innocence is a part of the discipline of holding a trial. Somebody has to do the work of proving guilt, and the jury has to be in a skeptical mood. Show me, they have to be thinking.

The wider public doesn't have to all be idiots about it. We-all pretty well know who shot Giffords, for instance.

321 b_snark  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:45:55pm

re: #319 Jadespring

Yeah that would be cool. Everything is already backed up on an external drive. When you have time, if you could help that would be great.

When you want help doing a restore, send an email to - support at rebootcomputers dot ca.

If you want to do it tomorrow, I'll be in a position to help after 10:30 CST.

322 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:50:43pm

re: #133 Romantic Heretic

I'm not sure the strategic bombing campaigns did anything other than slow down the rate at which the Nazi weapons manufacturing expanded. The planes, bombs and bomb sights were just too primitive. This lead to huge civilian casualties to no good purpose.

I think hitting transportation worked a lot better although more dangerous to the aircrews involved. Sort of the difference between clubbing your opponent to death or poisoning them.

But that's due to our misinterpretation of Clausewitz.

All the above is my opinion, of course.

Our attacks on their transportation network finally uncoupled the thing. To a point, if one road is out, you can detour and take the next. If one RR switching yard is out, ditto. But once enough nodes in the network are down, it loses connectivity.

323 Obdicut  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 5:57:05pm

re: #320 lostlakehiker

That wouldn't work as one guy befriending him, though.

324 samgak  Wed, Mar 9, 2011 9:19:16pm
Agh, you know what gets me is when Neo-Nazis start acting like Dresden was a war crime but never a word from them about German attrocities on London, Warsaw, and other cities. I believe the book that showed David Irving to be the scum be is was a book about Dresden.


The bombing of Dresden was a war crime, as were the bombings of London, Warsaw, Hiroshima and Nagasaki (amongst others). Targeting civilians = war crime. It's that simple and it doesn't matter how evil the regime you are fighting is. The fact that neo-Nazis use it as propaganda is irrelevant.

325 thecommodore  Thu, Mar 10, 2011 8:53:06am

I may not be the first commenter to point this out, but remember that "controversial" DHS report that came out about the potential rise of right wing extremists in the wake of Obama's election? The one that listed "disgruntled military veterans" (or somesuch wording) as possible targets for recruiting by far far right groups that made conservatives' collective heads blow up?

Nothing is conclusive, but considering the SPLC's report in 2006 about Fort Lewis having a high concentration of extremist group members, the pieces may be falling into place that once again vindicate this report.


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