Tsunami Wreaks Havoc, While GOP Defunds Tsunami Center

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Here’s some absolutely horrific video of the tsunami that followed today’s 8.9 earthquake in northern Japan, sweeping away everything in its path.

Please note that just last month, as part of their attack on scientific organizations that study global warming, House Republicans voted to gut funding for the Pacific Tsunami Center.

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252 comments

1 aagcobb  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:02:38am

Well, if its immoral to use taxpayer money to prevent an asteroid strike on the earth, the government certainly shouldn't be wasting money protecting hundreds of millions of lives from tsunamis.///

2 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:03:04am

God won't let tsunamis hit Indiana.
/

3 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:06:11am
Please note that just last month, as part of their attack on scientific organizations that study global warming, House Republicans voted to gut funding for the Pacific Tsunami Center.

Sorry, Charles, but the tax breaks for the rich have to come from somewhere. You don't expect them to pay for that, do you?!?

4 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:06:25am

re: #2 negativ

God won't let tsunamis hit Indiana.
/

So they're supporting glacier monitoring in case the Wisconsin Ice Sheet attempts to make a comeback?
///

5 Surabaya Stew  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:07:16am

re: #2 negativ

God won't let tsunamis hit Indiana.
/

That's because he did so already millions of years ago.

6 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:08:18am

The GOP also want to defund NOAA, who track tsunamis:

[Link: climateprogress.org...]

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:08:40am

Tsunamis are an expression of the Will of God, as are pregnancies, even those that arise from rape or incest. We may not force tax payers to finance any attempts at meddling with either...

8 SpaceJesus  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:09:23am

how dare the government take money to protect people. that's socialism, and possibly islamic or hispanic.

9 Spocomptonite  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:09:35am

Tsunami whirlpool

Notice the ships inside it for scale...

10 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:10:12am

re: #5 Surabaya Stew

That's because he did so already millions of years ago.

I've got a picture of the designated Indiana State Stone. :)
(Salem Limestone declared such in 1971. And the representative block is in the Capitol Building.)

11 Stanghazi  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:10:22am

This disaster will be tweeted.

The flow of tweets coming out of Tokyo since the quake has been running at 1,200 messages a minute, according to the website Tweet-o-Meter—whose dials go no higher.

12 lawhawk  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:10:53am

re: #2 negativ

No, but the East Coast could be toast if the an underwater landslide near the Canary Islands decides to collapse in a single chunk. If that happens, NYC and the rest of the East coast would have less than 12 hours before a significantly sized tsunami came through and rearranged the place.

13 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:12:19am

re: #8 SpaceJesus

how dare the government take money to protect people. that's socialism, and possibly islamic or hispanic.

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

14 BishopX  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:13:12am

As always tere are scumbags rushing to take advantage of the crisis.

Scams are already spreading across Facebook, which started in a matter of minutes after the news broke of the earthquake in Japan. As I write this, scammers are hard at work, registering new domains and cranking out templates for their fake donation sites. This will be followed with massive volumes of email spam, Tweets through Twitter, and Facebook posts, as scammers gear up to solicit donations from around the world. Users also need to be aware that cybercriminals also use these events to help spread malware, via malicious links via spam, twitter and other fake Web sites.

Be careful folks.

15 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:13:31am

re: #12 lawhawk

No, but the East Coast could be toast if the an underwater landslide near the Canary Islands decides to collapse in a single chunk. If that happens, NYC and the rest of the East coast would have less than 12 hours before a significantly sized tsunami came through and rearranged the place.

That came up in a lunchroom discussion today while we were watching CNN coverage of events in Japan.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

16 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:13:41am

It BECAUS OF YOKO ONO!1!1!
///

17 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:13:42am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

Did you ever consider that it's possible that the government could be helpful in protecting people, AND people can do a lot to protect themselves, as well?

18 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:13:59am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

Way to ignore the purpose of the whole thread to spew your ideological talking point.

19 Spocomptonite  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:14:42am

Houses on fire in water

I'm trying to find any word on relief organizations to donate to. Does the American Red Cross share funds/resources with the International/Japanese Red Cross? They are going to need a lot.

20 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:14:48am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

Because the average citizen is able to accurately monitor and track a tsunami and can warn everyone around them that one is coming.

Oh, and they can provide disaster relief and recovery for people when the shit hits the fan, no prob.

21 webevintage  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:15:10am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

Bootstraps and all that.
I mean come on people...get your own damn Tsunami warning systems going and for God's sake everyone can hook up Doppler radar and predict tornadoes and hurricanes, I know I have a plane to fly into the eye, doesn't everyone?
/

22 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:15:21am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'.

23 SpaceJesus  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:16:43am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

"CNN is reporting a giant second tsunami of libertarian stupidity has just crashed into LGF this morning at 10:00am PST"

24 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:16:51am

Come on people, the real answer is to get rid of all these building codes. Let the market decide. People will only work or live in the ones that are left standing after a disaster. Why can't you all see that?!?

25 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:16:57am

FTA MJ article:


"People could die. ... It could be serious," said Barry Hirshorn, Pacific region chairman of the National Weather Service Employees Organization.

Hirshorn said that if a continuing resolution proposed by the U.S. House is enacted — triggering a 28 percent budget cut in the second half of the fiscal year — Weather Service employees as well as those at the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center could face furloughs and rolling closures.

"It would impact our ability to issue warnings," he said.

Obviously a totally unbiased source. (A) No tsunami centers have been defunded. and (B) There is no "28%" budget cut. Before you guys argue the B portion I hope you do some quick googling and check out their budget requests since 2007.

26 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:17:01am

re: #20 Lidane

Because the average citizen is able to accurately monitor and track a tsunami and can warn everyone around them that one is coming.

Oh, and they can provide disaster relief and recovery for people when the shit hits the fan, no prob.

Because everyone knows that the Private Sector can do it cheaper and more efficiently. Government interference would be counterproductive.

27 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:17:48am

re: #26 ralphieboy

Because everyone knows that the Private Sector can do it cheaper and more efficiently. Government interference would be counterproductive.

As the libertarians say, free markets solve everything. Heh.

28 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:17:52am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

I would love to see (from the safety of my orbiting escape capsule) a city of a few million Rugged Individual-Americans try to evacuate without government "holding their hands".

The resulting chaos would probably be worse than if they'd just stayed put and drowned in place.

29 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:17:57am

re: #20 Lidane

Because the average citizen is able to accurately monitor and track a tsunami and can warn everyone around them that one is coming.

Oh, and they can provide disaster relief and recovery for people when the shit hits the fan, no prob.


To be fair, after Katrina hit, New Orleans was full of right-wingers from New Jersey helping people to safety.

/

30 Spocomptonite  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:18:06am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

I think the City of New Orleans, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mississippi River Valley, Florida Panhandle, Grand Forks, ND, and any other city/area that has been nearly wiped of the map by an earthquake or flood or hurricane or other disaster would have to heartily disagree with you.

31 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:18:37am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan
I thought the media did a great job today alerting people to the threat. With a TV on everywhere, the internet on everywhere, and every living creature having a cell phone to receive news and texts, I am not sure either that there is much call for a government run center.

32 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:19:16am

re: #31 Big Steve

You're missing your sarc tags.

33 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:19:28am

re: #26 ralphieboy

Because everyone knows that the Private Sector can do it cheaper and more efficiently. Government interference would be counterproductive.

Evacuation tickets go on sale at 3:00am. Only $500 per person, meals not included. Additional charges may apply.

34 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:19:43am

Libertarian theory is down right evil when it hits a reality that it can't deal with.

35 brennant  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:19:45am

re: #31 Big Steve

I thought the media did a great job today alerting people to the threat. With a TV on everywhere, the internet on everywhere, and every living creature having a cell phone to receive news and texts, I am not sure either that there is much call for a government run center.

I really hope you are kidding.

36 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:20:15am

re: #31 Big Steve

I thought the media did a great job today alerting people to the threat. With a TV on everywhere, the internet on everywhere, and every living creature having a cell phone to receive news and texts, I am not sure either that there is much call for a government run center.

"Please enter credit card number to pay $2 in order to receive this important alert that may affect your life!"
/

37 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:20:47am

Jindal: Who Needs Volcano Monitoring?

Lol@wingnuts

38 brennant  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:12am

The free market will organize and evacuate folks from the shoreline!

39 SpaceJesus  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:12am

re: #34 Varek Raith

you mean basic human morality and universal principles of right and wrong

40 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:14am

Seems like the GOP is become a "pro-death" party, what with opposition to volcano monitoring, trying to kill poison control centers, and now with this coming out. Apparently, if it saves people, the GOP will be against it. WTF?

41 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:20am

re: #36 oaktree

"Please enter credit card number to pay $2 in order to receive this important alert that may affect your life!"
/

Probably spam...

42 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:35am

re: #22 Girth

The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'.

There is no self
/zen

43 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:55am

Oh, and our government is sending Japan coolant for their reactors. I don't see the free market doing fuck all for that.

44 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:21:55am

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Pfft. We can't have volcano monitoring, or any kind of weather services! They gather climate data, don'tcha know. =P

45 SpaceJesus  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:22:26am

re: #38 brennant


if everyone in japan had a tsunami and a concealed tsunami license, this never would have happened.

46 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:22:27am

re: #34 Varek Raith

Libertarian theory is down right evil when it hits a reality that it can't deal with.

...because Libertarians hate engineering (witchcraft) and without government people would be living in shanty towns.

47 Interesting Times  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:22:31am

re: #31 Big Steve

I thought the media did a great job today alerting people to the threat. With a TV on everywhere, the internet on everywhere, and every living creature having a cell phone to receive news and texts, I am not sure either that there is much call for a government run center.

Image: 129072015098724953.jpg

48 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:22:41am

re: #44 Lidane

Pfft. We can't have volcano monitoring, or any kind of weather services! They gather climate data, don'tcha know. =P

Socialists!

49 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:23:00am

re: #28 negativ

I would love to see (from the safety of my orbiting escape capsule) a city of a few million Rugged Individual-Americans try to evacuate without government "holding their hands".

I have seen this. Hurricane Rita in Houston a month after Hurricane Katrina. Over two million people were told by the government to evacuate. However the government totally fucked it up. I remember being caught in the huge jam and over the radio the the city was saying that the freeways were "not designed" to be contraflow (heading out of town on both sides). However people just drove across the medians and starting heading North and West on the South and East bound sides. It worked just fine. Also it was the government that told everyone to get out when only the most southern portions really needed to. So trust me your vaunted government in action in a needed evacuation is not what it cracks up to be.

50 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:23:36am

re: #40 commadore183

Seems like the GOP is become a "pro-death" party, what with opposition to volcano monitoring, trying to kill poison control centers, and now with this coming out. Apparently, if it saves people, the GOP will be against it. WTF?

Anything to save a fetus. A live human? Fuck 'em, they're on their own.

51 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:23:40am

re: #46 RogueOne

...because Libertarians hate engineering (witchcraft) and without government people would be living in shanty towns.

Without government, people would be living in anarchy. Shanty-town or not, it'd be a place where the strong dominated the weak. Government is what we use to prevent that. It's highly imperfect. It's so much better than anarchy.

52 Interesting Times  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:24:59am

re: #25 RogueOne

Obviously a totally unbiased source. (A) No tsunami centers have been defunded. and (B) There is no "28%" budget cut. Before you guys argue the B portion I hope you do some quick googling and check out their budget requests since 2007.

Image: cgr0431l.jpg

53 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:25:31am

re: #31 Big Steve

I thought the media did a great job today alerting people to the threat. With a TV on everywhere, the internet on everywhere, and every living creature having a cell phone to receive news and texts, I am not sure either that there is much call for a government run center.

Where do you think the media got the information that they spread so efficiently?

Think for a sec.

54 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:26:06am

re: #49 Big Steve

It was the largest evacuation in US history. That it was problematic isn't exactly shocking.

55 Spocomptonite  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:26:24am

re: #53 wrenchwench

Where do you think the media got the information that they spread so efficiently?

Think for a sec.

THE FREE MARKET duh...

56 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:27:25am

In 2009 the NOAA requested 4.1 Billion. In 2010 they requested 4.48 Billion. The republican budget number is 4.3 Billion.

57 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:28:18am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

Right, so I'll set up my own little tsunami warning system on the deck. Charge the neighbors a monthly fee for updates.

58 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:28:36am

re: #54 Obdicut

It was the largest evacuation in US history. That it was problematic isn't exactly shocking.

It's also a great example of anti-logic. "The government's response to this crisis was flawed in the following ways. Therefore we should defund those government programs that deal with crisis response."

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:29:07am

re: #22 Girth

The central message of Buddhism is not 'every man for himself'.

Also, the London Underground is not a political movement.

60 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:29:48am

re: #54 Obdicut

It was the largest evacuation in US history. That it was problematic isn't exactly shocking.

"Problematic"......that is an interesting way to describe my two days of hell sleeping on roadsides, out of gas, 100 degree weather, kids frightened, wife catatonic, cat having some fit every hour in the back of the car.

61 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:30:13am

re: #56 RogueOne

Hey look, it's actual context:


[Link: climateprogress.org...]

The GOP’s bill would tear $1.2 billion (21 percent) out of the president’s proposed budget for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA. On the surface, cutting NOAA may seem like an obvious choice. The FY 2011 request for the agency included a 16 percent boost over 2010 levels that would have made this year’s funding level of $5.5 billion the largest in NOAA’s history.

Even this total funding level, however, is woefully insufficient for an agency tasked with managing such fundamental resources as the atmosphere that regulates our climate, the 4.3 million square miles of our oceanic exclusive economic zone, the ecological health of coastal regions that are home to more than 50 percent of all Americans, response to environmental catastrophes including the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, and fisheries that employ thousands of Americans and annually contribute tens of billions of dollars to the national economy.

More than $700 million of the president’s proposed 2011 increase in NOAA funding would be tagged for overhauling our nation’s aging environmental satellite infrastructure. Satellites gather key data about our oceans and atmosphere, including cloud cover and density, miniscule changes in ocean surface elevation and temperatures, and wind and current trajectories. Such monitoring is integral to our weather and climate forecasting and it plays a key role in projections of strength and tracking of major storms and hurricanes—things most Americans feel are worth keeping an eye on.

62 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:30:38am

Pretty amazing: Sky scrapers swaying

63 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:30:51am

re: #56 RogueOne

In 2009 the NOAA requested 4.1 Billion. In 2010 they requested 4.48 Billion. The republican budget number is 4.3 Billion.

Trying to throw facts into this lion's den.....I admire your chutzpah!

64 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:30:53am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, the London Underground is not a political movement.

And the Gettysburg Address is not where Lincoln lived.

65 allegro  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:31:12am

re: #60 Big Steve

"Problematic"...that is an interesting way to describe my two days of hell sleeping on roadsides, out of gas, 100 degree weather, kids frightened, wife catatonic, cat having some fit every hour in the back of the car.

Did you live in an evacuation area?

66 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:31:13am

re: #60 Big Steve

"Problematic"...that is an interesting way to describe my two days of hell sleeping on roadsides, out of gas, 100 degree weather, kids frightened, wife catatonic, cat having some fit every hour in the back of the car.

I'm sorry you had such a rough time, but...

That was all the government's fault?

67 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:31:23am

re: #60 Big Steve

"Problematic"...that is an interesting way to describe my two days of hell sleeping on roadsides, out of gas, 100 degree weather, kids frightened, wife catatonic, cat having some fit every hour in the back of the car.

I'm sorry you went through 'hell'. I'm not sure what your point is, though-- do you think if there had been no evacuation plan whatsoever implemented by the government, the evacuation would have gone more smoothly?

68 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:32:51am

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Pretty amazing: Sky scrapers swaying

[Video]

Just as they are supposed to....holy shit.

69 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:33:03am

re: #65 allegro

Yes......northern Galveston county just south of Houston.

70 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:33:06am

So, Libertarians, should the government of Japan do absolutely nothing now and just let the free market do rescue and recovery?

71 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:33:22am

re: #61 Obdicut

5.5 Billion from a budget that never passed and money they never received. Can you argue it's actually a massive cut that puts peoples lives in danger if they never had the money to begin with?

72 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:33:55am

re: #67 Obdicut

I'm sorry you went through 'hell'. I'm not sure what your point is, though-- do you think if there had been no evacuation plan whatsoever implemented by the government, the evacuation would have gone more smoothly?

Krispy Kreme had a genius evacuation plan all ready to go, but they couldn't compete with the government's free offering.

I've seen the plan, by the way, and it's truly brilliant. Of course, most of it is details of Krispy Kreme outlets in the Houston area, but there's a couple of sentences about free drinking fountains being available, and where you can dispose of candy wrappers.

73 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:34:08am

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Pretty amazing: Sky scrapers swaying

[Video]

That just looks fucking wrong. I can feel the vertigo...

74 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:34:11am

You would think that after the 2004 one and Katrina that a Tsunami center would be valued. This isn't about big government. It's about common sense. And by the way those I talked to last night regarding my brother, my parents haven't heard from him yet but we're assuming the best. Still worried naturally. We appreciate all the thoughts though.

75 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:34:33am

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Pretty amazing, yes, but also bowel-evacuatingly scary as well (for me at least if I was there)! Good find.

76 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:34:54am

re: #71 RogueOne

5.5 Billion from a budget that never passed and money they never received. Can you argue it's actually a massive cut that puts peoples lives in danger if they never had the money to begin with?

Is your argument seriously that we shouldn't fund any kind of disaster prevention or planning, because if the disasters don't occur, the money will have been wasted?

If not, how would you go about deciding what level of funding is appropriate?

77 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:35:23am

re: #66 wrenchwench

I'm sorry you had such a rough time, but...

That was all the government's fault?


Actually that is not the argument. The argument someone posed was try and try to evacuate without the government's help. I was merely noting that even with the government's planning and help it still was a disaster.

78 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:35:41am

re: #71 RogueOne

5.5 Billion from a budget that never passed and money they never received. Can you argue it's actually a massive cut that puts peoples lives in danger if they never had the money to begin with?

Yes, I can. I'm not sure what's confusing about it. The money is needed. The GOP is cutting it.

In fact, this is one of those scenarios where we don't have a choice about spending money, like I was talking about the other day.

Look:

The $700 billion maritime commerce industry moves more than 90 percent of all global trade, with arrival and departure of quarter-mile long container ships timed to the minute to maximize revenue and efficiency. Shipping companies rely on accurate forecasts to set their manifests and itineraries.
Forecasting capabilities are particularly strained at high latitudes and shippers have estimated that the loss of satellite monitoring capabilities could cost them more than half a billion dollars per year in lost cargo and damage to vessels from unanticipated heavy weather.

When a hurricane makes landfall, evacuations cost as much as $1 million per mile. Over the past decade, NOAA has halved the average margin of error in its three-day forecasts from 250 miles to 125 miles, saving up to $125 million per storm.

Commercial fishing is the most dangerous profession in the country with 111.8 deaths per 100,000 workers. A fisherman’s most valuable piece of safety equipment is his weather radio.
When disaster strikes at sea, polar-orbiting satellites receive emergency distress beacons and relay positioning data to rescuers. This resulted in 295 lives saved in 2010 alone and the rescue of more than 6,500 fishermen, recreational boaters, and other maritime transportation workers since the program began in 1982.

Farmers rely on NOAA’s drought predictions to determine planting cycles. Drought forecasts informed directly by satellite data have been valued at $6 billion to 8 billion annually.

NOAA’s volcanic ash forecasting capabilities received international attention last spring during the eruption of the Icelandic volcano, Eyjafjallajökull. The service saves airlines upwards of $200 million per year.

NOAA’s polar-orbiting satellites are America’s only source of weather and climate data for vast areas of the globe, including areas key to overseas military operations. Their data are integral to planning deployments of troops and aircraft—certain high-atmosphere wind conditions, for example, can prohibit mid-air refueling operations.

And here's the money quote:


So here’s the choice: Spend $700 million this year for continuous service or $2 billion to $3.5 billion at some point in the future for the same equipment and a guaranteed service interruption.
79 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:35:42am

re: #73 Varek Raith

That just looks fucking wrong. I can feel the vertigo...

I used to live in a 26 story building. You could feel it sway in strong winds. I never got used to it and still occasionally have nightmares about living there.

80 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:35:50am

re: #20 Lidane

Because the average citizen is able to accurately monitor and track a tsunami and can warn everyone around them that one is coming.

Oh, and they can provide disaster relief and recovery for people when the shit hits the fan, no prob.

This is right on. I think NJ's missing the point. This isn't about big government or small government, it's about smart government. Governments should be monitoring these sort of things so we don't have large scaled disasters and chaos.

81 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:35:56am

re: #72 iossarian

Krispy Kreme had a genius evacuation plan all ready to go, but they couldn't compete with the government's free offering.

I've seen the plan, by the way, and it's truly brilliant. Of course, most of it is details of Krispy Kreme outlets in the Houston area, but there's a couple of sentences about free drinking fountains being available, and where you can dispose of candy wrappers.

You give me enough Krispy Kremes, and I'll stay put for the hurricane.

82 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:36:24am

re: #73 Varek Raith

That just looks fucking wrong. I can feel the vertigo...

It's so much better than sky-scrapers cracking into pieces and falling into the street, though.

83 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:36:30am

When you guys get around to reading the union letter going around about the cuts you'll notice they don't mention the actual budget numbers. Instead, they go with they'll be receiving $450 billion less than they received in 2010. That would be thanks to the stimulus package. They're counting in the stimulus to increase the baseline which I was told never happened.

84 allegro  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:36:31am

Having lived in Houston for about 38 years now and going through quite a few hurricane warnings and a couple of direct hits, Rita was an odd confluence of events that did have tragic consequences for many as Big Steve relates. I never saw anything like it before or since, even with hurricane Ike. It can't be considered the norm at all and it was the result of media generated panic as much as anything, not that the gov didn't screw up as well in some ways.

85 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:37:45am

re: #81 SanFranciscoZionist

You give me enough Krispy Kremes, and I'll stay put for the hurricane.


Ha.....the weight alone that you would gain eating those things would anchor you down better.

86 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:37:50am

re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist

It's so much better than sky-scrapers cracking into pieces and falling into the street, though.

This is true.
Still, seeing a massive building swaying like that freaks mah brain out.
;)

87 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:37:52am

re: #76 iossarian

Is your argument seriously that we shouldn't fund any kind of disaster prevention or planning, because if the disasters don't occur, the money will have been wasted?

If not, how would you go about deciding what level of funding is appropriate?

No. My argument is that a 4% cut in their budget isn't "draconian" and it wouldn't have changed one thing that happened today.

88 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:38:04am

re: #77 Big Steve

You've got the argument wrong, actually.

The point is that without the government monitoring hurricanes, volcanoes, tsunamis, and earthquakes and other natural disasters, the average citizen wouldn't know they were in danger and would be unable to evacuate in the first place.

The average citizen also doesn't have the resources to offer large scale disaster relief and/or recovery. The government does.

89 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:39:13am

re: #84 allegro

Having lived in Houston for about 38 years now and going through quite a few hurricane warnings and a couple of direct hits, Rita was an odd confluence of events that did have tragic consequences for many as Big Steve relates. I never saw anything like it before or since, even with hurricane Ike. It can't be considered the norm at all and it was the result of media generated panic as much as anything, not that the gov didn't screw up as well in some ways.


Where were you holed up for Rita......after 18 hours of standstill driving we made it to just north of Lake Livingston.

90 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:39:37am

Wow. So right wingers will actually defend cutting the budget for tsunami warnings, even as thousands of people die from a tsunami.

Nothing really surprises me any more, but ... wow.

91 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:39:39am

re: #83 RogueOne

When you guys get around to reading the union letter going around about the cuts you'll notice they don't mention the actual budget numbers. Instead, they go with they'll be receiving $450 billion less than they received in 2010. That would be thanks to the stimulus package. They're counting in the stimulus to increase the baseline which I was told never happened.

I'm not sure how the stimulus was accounted for in this case, but in higher education, stimulus funding that was used by the states to make up budget shortfalls was absolutely counted in baseline funding (since that was the entire point of it - to prevent reductions in baseline funding).

This is why there are huge cuts being announced in higher education funding this year, while many states managed to avoid making "baseline cuts" in 2009 and 2010.

92 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:39:40am

re: #87 RogueOne

So you think the scientists are just lying when they say we need new satellites?

93 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:40:19am

re: #87 RogueOne

No. My argument is that a 4% cut in their budget isn't "draconian" and it wouldn't have changed one thing that happened today.

Really? How do you know?

What would stop happening with a 4% cut?

94 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:40:40am

BBC News:

#
1836: The power of the earthquake off north-east Japan shifted the earth's axis by nearly 10in (25cm), Earth-issues.com reports, citing the National Institute of Geophysics and Volcanology. The phenomenon is not unusual for a major quake.
95 recusancy  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:40:41am

re: #92 Obdicut

So you think the scientists are just lying when they say we need new satellites?

He thinks it's just vanity and waste. The scientists just want the latest ipad etc...

96 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:41:09am

re: #92 Obdicut

So you think the scientists are just lying when they say we need new satellites?

Who needs new satellites? We can just use sundials and smoke signals to get weather warnings out. =P

97 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:41:09am

re: #49 Big Steve

I have seen this. Hurricane Rita in Houston a month after Hurricane Katrina. Over two million people were told by the government to evacuate. However the government totally fucked it up. I remember being caught in the huge jam and over the radio the the city was saying that the freeways were "not designed" to be contraflow (heading out of town on both sides). However people just drove across the medians and starting heading North and West on the South and East bound sides. It worked just fine. Also it was the government that told everyone to get out when only the most southern portions really needed to. So trust me your vaunted government in action in a needed evacuation is not what it cracks up to be.

Clearly, a better solution is to tell nobody and let them die. because, as common sense tells us, no government at all is far better than a flawed government./

Seriously, it's really hard to parody your position, because it's so insane I can't imagine anything crazier.

98 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:41:10am

These comments need to be in this thread:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

99 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:42:21am

I hate this whole fantasy budgeting thing, where apparently anyone can cut 4% out of their budget at any time and still do exactly the same things in exactly the same way.

I mean, there are probably plenty of households that spend around 4% of their budget on various forms of entertainment: cable TV, meals out, etc. So you would tell these people that a 4% cut won't make any difference to them, because they can just stay indoors and read books instead?

Bizarre and stupid.

100 allegro  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:42:35am

re: #89 Big Steve

Where were you holed up for Rita...after 18 hours of standstill driving we made it to just north of Lake Livingston.

I stayed home in SugarLand. Turns out we got a little wind but not enough rain to water the lawn.

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:43:01am

You know, I think we could have a more balanced discussion about exactly how much funding is needed if we didn't get the conversation started with scoffing about people needing government to get anything done, and people who think government is needed for everything.

Tsunami monitoring is, pretty much without argument, something that governments need to do.

If everyone is on that page, THEN we can fight about how much we need to spend on it.

102 dragonfire1981  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:43:21am

My Facebook feed is lit up like a Christmas tree with folks talking about End Times stuff.

103 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:43:22am

re: #60 Big Steve

"Problematic"...that is an interesting way to describe my two days of hell sleeping on roadsides, out of gas, 100 degree weather, kids frightened, wife catatonic, cat having some fit every hour in the back of the car.

Well, obviously you would be better off dead. We liberals apologize for wanting to save your life, and not doing so with no inconvenience to you and yours whatsoever.

104 Stanghazi  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:43:29am

Breaking News

Fukushima update: Japanese authorities will release radioactive vapor to ease pressure at nuclear reactor - AP

105 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:43:43am

re: #88 Lidane
After hurricane Rita the city of Houston put together a panel that was headed up by, wait for this......an evil oil company executive Steve Miller....(and truth in spin town here - a former boss of mine). It was an industry led plan that was developed for future evacuations.

106 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:44:11am

re: #92 Obdicut

So you think the scientists are just lying when they say we need new satellites?

No, it's possible they could be 100% correct. The problem is we don't have the money to spend. Every budget is going to have to be cut and they'll have to do what they can with the money they get. A 4% cut from 2010 to now isn't horrific. That's less than the money NASA just shot ($450 million) into the ocean last week.

107 recusancy  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:44:20am

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I think we could have a more balanced discussion about exactly how much funding is needed if we didn't get the conversation started with scoffing about people needing government to get anything done, and people who think government is needed for everything.

Tsunami monitoring is, pretty much without argument, something that governments need to do.

If everyone is on that page, THEN we can fight about how much we need to spend on it.

Who thinks the government is needed for everything?

108 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:44:30am

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist


Tsunami monitoring is, pretty much without argument, something that governments need to do.

If everyone is on that page, THEN we can fight about how much we need to spend on it.

Are you talking about the SOCIALISM page?

109 brennant  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:44:54am

re: #105 Big Steve

After hurricane Rita the city of Houston put together a panel that was headed up by, wait for this...an evil oil company executive Steve Miller...(and truth in spin town here - a former boss of mine). It was an industry led plan that was developed for future evacuations.

110 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:45:05am

Sounds like the situation at the Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant are starting to get worse (via BBC News):

#
1841: The situation at the nuclear reactor at Fukushima seems to be worsening. Japanese authorities are now to release radioactive vapour to ease pressure, AP news agency reports. Engineers are trying to fix the cooling system to the main reactor, damaged in the quake.
111 recusancy  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:45:14am

re: #106 RogueOne

No, it's possible they could be 100% correct. The problem is we don't have the money to spend. Every budget is going to have to be cut and they'll have to do what they can with the money they get. A 4% cut from 2010 to now isn't horrific. That's less than the money NASA just shot ($450 million) into the ocean last week.

We do have the money.

112 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:45:17am

re: #106 RogueOne

Do you not understand that not spending this money will cost us more money in the end? What is not getting through about that?

If we don't have this 700 million, then we really, really don't have the three and a half to five billion it'll cost us otherwise, right?

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:45:35am

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, I think we could have a more balanced discussion about exactly how much funding is needed if we didn't get the conversation started with scoffing about people needing government to get anything done, and people who think government is needed for everything.

Tsunami monitoring is, pretty much without argument, something that governments need to do.

If everyone is on that page, THEN we can fight about how much we need to spend on it.

Of course, my trust in the Republican leadership's take on such things would be higher if I hadn't watched Bobby Jindal discuss what a waste all this volcano-bothering stuff is.

114 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:45:51am

re: #106 RogueOne

Fuck that.
Get rid of corporate welfare and tax breaks first.

115 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:46:03am

re: #99 iossarian

I hate this whole fantasy budgeting thing, where apparently anyone can cut 4% out of their budget at any time and still do exactly the same things in exactly the same way.

I mean, there are probably plenty of households that spend around 4% of their budget on various forms of entertainment: cable TV, meals out, etc. So you would tell these people that a 4% cut won't make any difference to them, because they can just stay indoors and read books instead?

Bizarre and stupid.

How about telling them they have to live with a 30% reduction in the market value of their mortgaged home?

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:46:27am

re: #102 dragonfire1981

My Facebook feed is lit up like a Christmas tree with folks talking about End Times stuff.

Because there was an earthquake and tsunami in Japan? When there's a tsunami in, I dunno, Tennessee, we can talk about end times.

117 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:46:31am

re: #105 Big Steve

You're still missing the point. IT'S NOT ABOUT EVACUATIONS. It's about the fact that there wouldn't even be evacuations without the government first being able to warn people that a hurricane/earthquake/tsunami/mudslide/tornado/etc. was heading in their direction in the first place.

You can't evacuate people if they don't know they're in danger in the first place. THAT'S THE POINT. Government should be actively monitoring natural disasters and issuing warnings. And when the shit hits the fan, they offer disaster relief and/or recovery. That's their job.

118 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:46:43am

re: #112 Obdicut

You're wasting your time. It's just a cardboard cut-out with a tape machine on the back.

"We don't have the money."

"We can't go on like this."

"Every budget will need to be cut."

119 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:46:58am

The stupidity of wingnuts never ceases to amaze me.

"I'd rather be dead than pay more taxes" is essentially the argument being made here. It's amazing.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:47:11am

re: #106 RogueOne

No, it's possible they could be 100% correct. The problem is we don't have the money to spend. Every budget is going to have to be cut and they'll have to do what they can with the money they get. A 4% cut from 2010 to now isn't horrific. That's less than the money NASA just shot ($450 million) into the ocean last week.

Updinged for sanity, even if I disagree.

121 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:47:18am

re: #100 allegro

I stayed home in SugarLand. Turns out we got a little wind but not enough rain to water the lawn.


When we got back to Friendswood after two days of traffic jams the power was still on at the house and the clocks right were not even flashing so had never lost power. The extent of my property damage was three pine cones floating in the pool.

122 brennant  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:47:18am

re: #119 Fozzie Bear

>_

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:47:21am

re: #107 recusancy

Who thinks the government is needed for everything?

Imaginary liberals.

124 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:47:59am

re: #109 brennant

Oh, you. Pointing out that the local government put together that panel? Shame. How dare you bring facts into the discussion.

Hehe.

125 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:48:00am

YAY! Michele Bachmann is on Fox with Megyn Kelly!

Crazy and stupid meets concern and outrage!

126 bubba zanetti  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:48:13am

re: #48 Killgore Trout

Socialists!

Alinsky-san!

127 allegro  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:48:24am

re: #103 Fozzie Bear

Well, obviously you would be better off dead. We liberals apologize for wanting to save your life, and not doing so with no inconvenience to you and yours whatsoever.

This is going too far. I hear the sentiment you are sarcastically trying to convey but the reality of the Rita evacuation was that it was FUBAR for a number of reasons that did result in deaths.

128 Obdicut  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:48:51am

I'm going to go enjoy this awesome weather while it lasts.

Everyone enjoy anything they can.

129 brennant  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:49:20am

re: #124 Lidane

Oh, you. Pointing out that the local government put together that panel? Shame. How dare you bring facts into the discussion.

Hehe.

I didn't... he made the point for me.

130 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:49:52am

re: #104 Stanley Sea

Breaking News

Fukushima update: Japanese authorities will release radioactive vapor to ease pressure at nuclear reactor - AP

I forget. Which monster in particular does this specific action attract?
Gamera was volcanos I think... Gojira was nuke testing... I get them so confused.
/

131 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:50:44am

re: #103 Fozzie Bear

Well, obviously you would be better off dead.

Gee thanks....and I am sure my kids will be comforted by your thoughts at my funeral. We are just discussing here. Get a grip on yourself and don't go all terrorist on me.

132 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:51:15am

re: #129 brennant

I didn't... he made the point for me.

Heh, true.

133 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:51:23am

re: #127 allegro

This is going too far. I hear the sentiment you are sarcastically trying to convey but the reality of the Rita evacuation was that it was FUBAR for a number of reasons that did result in deaths.

It was indeed a mess. It also saved countless lives. I have sympathy for the inconvenience experienced by those evacuating, but the fact is, they aren't dead precisely because they were told to leave by the government.

I have exactly zero sympathy for people (who would otherwise likely be dead) who blame the government for the inconvenience. None. Zilch.

134 garhighway  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:51:53am

Hi folks.

On the topic of science and reality, yesterday Freetoken told us about his efforts to bring science and reality to the message board of a san Diego paper that ran a piece on AGW. Encouraged by his example, I have joined in as well. It has been an interesting experience.

[Link: www.signonsandiego.com...]

135 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:52:00am

re: #130 oaktree

"Ladies and gentlemen,
The monster,
Which the peasants in this area call Frunobulax
(apparently a very large poodle dog)
Has just been seen approaching the power plant
Bullets can't stop it
Rockets can't stop it
We may have to use nuclear force!..."

Frank Zappa
"Cheepnis"

136 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:52:03am

Bachmann just said "It'll be one more tipping point..."

Scales...how do they fucking work?!

137 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:52:42am

re: #131 Big Steve

Gee thanks...and I am sure my kids will be comforted by your thoughts at my funeral. We are just discussing here. Get a grip on yourself and don't go all terrorist on me.

You can send the thank you notes for your continued existence to your government. No need to thank liberals, we vote the way we do to save your life.

138 JoyousMN  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:53:21am

re: #40 commadore183

Seems like the GOP is become a "pro-death" party, what with opposition to volcano monitoring, trying to kill poison control centers, and now with this coming out. Apparently, if it saves people, the GOP will be against it. WTF?

It's the corollary to the protester sign in Wisconsin that read: "If you want a Republican to care about you, remain a fetus."

139 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:53:35am

re: #112 Obdicut

Do you not understand that not spending this money will cost us more money in the end? What is not getting through about that?

If we don't have this 700 million, then we really, really don't have the three and a half to five billion it'll cost us otherwise, right?

A. Might cost us more in the end
B. We part of we don't have the money isn't getting through? Do you really think the dems are going to suggest raising everyones taxes in order to spend more money? That isn't going to happen.

140 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:53:54am

From what I understand about the Fukushima I NPP, an electrical problem is preventing all cooling pumps from functioning in reactor #1 (the oldest one there). Reactor #2's cooling pumps are being run by batteries, which last about 8 hours; the government can flying in replacement batteries via helicopter if needed. The US Air Force has flown in additional coolant to prevent dangerous pressure levels; that water level in #1 (I think) has dropped, but the rod are not exposed.

Japan had declared an atomic power emergency because of the problems with coolant pumps at reactor #1, the first time in Japanese history.

I hope that about covers it.

141 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:54:12am

re: #136 Girth

Bachmann just said "It'll be one more tipping point..."

Physics, how the fuck does it work?

142 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:54:35am

re: #133 Fozzie Bear

It was indeed a mess. It also saved countless lives. I have sympathy for the inconvenience experienced by those evacuating, but the fact is, they aren't dead precisely because they were told to leave by the government.

I have exactly zero sympathy for people (who would otherwise likely be dead) who blame the government for the inconvenience. None. Zilch.

Hey why don't you read up on hurricane Rita.....it missed Houston all together. Had we stayed home we would have been just fine.

143 JoyousMN  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:54:57am

re: #135 ralphieboy

Upding for Zappa quote.

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:55:08am

re: #133 Fozzie Bear

It was indeed a mess. It also saved countless lives. I have sympathy for the inconvenience experienced by those evacuating, but the fact is, they aren't dead precisely because they were told to leave by the government.

I have exactly zero sympathy for people (who would otherwise likely be dead) who blame the government for the inconvenience. None. Zilch.

It's fair to blame government agencies who screw up emergency procedures. Necessary, in fact. It prevents more screw-ups down the road.

But acting as though realizing that governments need to take responsibility for evacuation procedures means that you think government response is always perfect is silly.

145 garhighway  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:55:32am

re: #139 RogueOne

A. Might cost us more in the end
B. We part of we don't have the money isn't getting through? Do you really think the dems are going to suggest raising everyones taxes in order to spend more money? That isn't going to happen.

Well, tax breaks for oil companies run to billions of dollars a year. How about we transfer some of that coin to pay for this?

146 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:55:34am

re: #139 RogueOne

A. Might cost us more in the end
B. We part of we don't have the money isn't getting through? Do you really think the dems are going to suggest raising everyones taxes in order to spend more money? That isn't going to happen.

We don't have the money in part because we dramatically lowered taxes. Yes, the dems should raise taxes, because they are insanely low right now. Unsustainably so.

147 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:55:53am

re: #139 RogueOne

Maybe we'd have the money if we cut corporate welfare and oil subsidies. Or, better yet, let the Joint Chiefs actually kill all the bloated, obsolete weapons systems and defense contracts that waste billions.

There are ways to get the money without raising taxes and without destroying our ability to monitor natural disasters.

148 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:56:29am

re: #147 Lidane

Maybe we'd have the money if we cut corporate welfare and oil subsidies. Or, better yet, let the Joint Chiefs actually kill all the bloated, obsolete weapons systems and defense contracts that waste billions.

There are ways to get the money without raising taxes and without destroying our ability to monitor natural disasters.

This.

149 Mickey_being_mickey  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:57:53am

Anyone catch this story on Reuters?

A ship carrying 100 people was swept away by the tsunami which smashed into northeastern Japan Friday following a massive earthquake, Kyodo news agency reported.

Reuters.com

150 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:58:57am

re: #149 Mickey_being_mickey

Yeah, there was also reports of two passenger trains that are missing, presumed to have been swept up by the tsunami.

151 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:59:18am

re: #145 garhighway

Well, tax breaks for oil companies run to billions of dollars a year. How about we transfer some of that coin to pay for this?

The annual deficit is roughly $1.5 trillion. A billion is a good start.

152 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 10:59:32am

re: #149 Mickey_being_mickey

Anyone catch this story on Reuters?

Reuters.com

Holy crap, that's awful. Those poor people. I haven't been following the news that much but I am relieved that thus far there hasn't been some asshole saying that this was God's punishment. As I said last night, if I hear that shit I will want to kick some serious ass.

153 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:00:07am

re: #139 RogueOne

A. Might cost us more in the end
B. We part of we don't have the money isn't getting through? Do you really think the dems are going to suggest raising everyones taxes in order to spend more money? That isn't going to happen.

So can we take a giant hatchet to the defense budget? I mean... we don't have the money, right?

154 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:00:21am

According to KHNL, the US is flying in more coolant to Japan for the Fukushima I NPP and Japan is about to release what they term as "slightly radioactive vapor".

155 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:00:30am

re: #142 Big Steve

Hey why don't you read up on hurricane Rita...it missed Houston all together. Had we stayed home we would have been just fine.

Yes, imperfect weather prediction means we shouldn't evacuate threatened areas. All those people who got out before Katrina hit? Obviously suckers for socialism. All those people who stayed home in New Orleans thought they would be fine too.

While I think it sucks you had to deal with that, and it does indeed sound like a giant pain in the ass, your argument that the problem there was government (rather than weather) reveals a degree of commitment to ideology that exceeds your concern for human life other than your own. You very well could be dead now if that evacuation hadn't taken place. Chance, as it turns out, was on your side. So was the government.

156 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:00:35am

re: #152 HappyWarrior

Holy crap, that's awful. Those poor people. I haven't been following the news that much but I am relieved that thus far there hasn't been some asshole saying that this was God's punishment. As I said last night, if I hear that shit I will want to kick some serious ass.


Just give it time.....probably happened because God hates fags//

157 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:01:10am

re: #154 commadore183

According to KHNL, the US is flying in more coolant to Japan for the Fukushima I NPP and Japan is about to release what they term as "slightly radioactive vapor".

But, of course, government has no role in disaster monitoring or relief. Bootstraps for everybody!

///

158 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:01:39am

re: #147 Lidane

Maybe we'd have the money if we cut corporate welfare and oil subsidies. Or, better yet, let the Joint Chiefs actually kill all the bloated, obsolete weapons systems and defense contracts that waste billions.

There are ways to get the money without raising taxes and without destroying our ability to monitor natural disasters.

A. A 4% budget cut will not destroy our ability to monitor natural disasters.
B. If the dems in the senate think that 4% is crucial then let them find the money somewhere else (like any of the places you suggest) and put it up to a vote.

159 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:01:47am

re: #156 Big Steve

Just give it time...probably happened because God hates fags//

I know that asshole is coming. Seriously, there are few things that anger me more than a supposed man of God saying that shit.

160 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:02:07am

re: #154 commadore183

According to KHNL, the US is flying in more coolant to Japan for the Fukushima I NPP and Japan is about to release what they term as "slightly radioactive vapor".

I don't like the sound of that.

161 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:02:15am

re: #153 JasonA

So can we take a giant hatchet to the defense budget? I mean... we don't have the money, right?

The defense budget is going to have to be cut. They'll be lucky if it's only 4%.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:02:27am

re: #154 commadore183

According to KHNL, the US is flying in more coolant to Japan for the Fukushima I NPP and Japan is about to release what they term as "slightly radioactive vapor".

I know that the Japanese are a great people for euphemism, but as a plain-spoken American, I have to ask, "How radioactive is 'slightly radioactive'?"

163 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:02:51am

re: #153 JasonA

So can we take a giant hatchet to the defense budget? I mean... we don't have the money, right?

We could take a flamethrower to the defense budget if the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defense were really allowed to streamline and modernize the military. We'd save obscene amounts of money if we killed a bunch of these bloated defense contracts that waste billions.

164 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:03:22am

re: #161 RogueOne

The defense budget is going to have to be cut. They'll be lucky if it's only 4%.

Uh huh. Let's see a Republican politician whose name doesn't end with "Paul" seriously propose that.

165 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:03:53am

Oy.
The pressure is building in reactor one, and they can't cool it fast enough. To relieve the pressure, they have to release the gasses that are building up.

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:03:59am

I'm just constantly intrigued that we need to maintain tax cuts, but at the same time, have absolutely no money at all.

167 Mickey_being_mickey  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:04:34am

re: #159 HappyWarrior

I'm sure Pat Robertson will blame it on the Japanese for believing in Shinto.

168 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:04:40am

re: #158 RogueOne

A. A 4% budget cut will not destroy our ability to monitor natural disasters.

You keep saying that, but you have nothing to back up your assertion that this will not cost us more in the long run, as Obdicut pointed out.

And incidentally, if something "might" cost us more, it means that in the long run it will cost us some proportion of that amount (depending on the likelihood of the event in question) with a probability approaching 1.

169 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:04:52am

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm just constantly intrigued that we need to maintain tax cuts, but at the same time, have absolutely no money at all.

It's the most incoherent shit imaginable. Wanting government to pay for all these things, but not wanting to put money into the government via taxes? It's a recipe for disaster.

170 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:05:06am

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

I know that the Japanese are a great people for euphemism, but as a plain-spoken American, I have to ask, "How radioactive is 'slightly radioactive'?"

They're a nuclear disaster magnet, like a trailer park in tornado alley.

171 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:05:17am

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm just constantly intrigued that we need to maintain tax cuts, but at the same time, have absolutely no money at all.

Well, when your base is taxaphobic, that plays a large role. Listen, I don't think tax increases are necessary all the time but sometimes they need to be seriously considered and in a time like this it needs to be at the very least on the table.

172 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:06:14am

re: #170 RogueOne

They're a nuclear disaster magnet, like a trailer park in tornado alley.

No, we are.
;)

173 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:06:25am

re: #155 Fozzie Bear

Yes, imperfect weather prediction means we shouldn't evacuate threatened areas. All those people who got out before Katrina hit? Obviously suckers for socialism. All those people who stayed home in New Orleans thought they would be fine too.

While I think it sucks you had to deal with that, and it does indeed sound like a giant pain in the ass, your argument that the problem there was government (rather than weather) reveals a degree of commitment to ideology that exceeds your concern for human life other than your own. You very well could be dead now if that evacuation hadn't taken place. Chance, as it turns out, was on your side. So was the government.

ok ok......if you thought was arguing against spending money on the science of protecting the human race from natural disasters well consider my tent folded. I am the world's hugest, most gigundee fan of all things science (including the vary agency that puts those assets into orbit....the agency that the current administration deemed worthy of a tax cut first thing out of the box). However this was never my argument. My argument, if you go back up, is to NOT assume that the government can pull off a massive evacuation. I am not saying this is a fatal flaw of government by the way, I am only saying, by personal experience, that it can be totally screwed up. And also, BTW, I did think that Houston Mayor Bill White did an outstanding job during the Rita evacuation and as such I actually worked on his campaign against Ken Doll Perry for governor.

174 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:06:26am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

The stupid is strong with this one.

175 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:06:26am

re: #169 Lidane

It's the most incoherent shit imaginable. Wanting government to pay for all these things, but not wanting to put money into the government via taxes? It's a recipe for disaster.

It's the people who bitch about the size of the government then bitch about the quality of certain things. Yeah I realize that money doesn't solve all but smart spending is better than just slashing and hoping for the best.

176 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:07:36am

re: #161 RogueOne

The defense budget is going to have to be cut. They'll be lucky if it's only 4%.

The GOP will never, ever cut more than single digits from the defense budget. If they did that, the base would scream that they'd stopped "supporting the troops".

Of course, the defense budget could use a flamethrower. We're wasting obscene amounts of money on shit that's obsolete, inefficient, or otherwise has no purpose except to get some congress critter more money from defense contractors and enable them to wave flags around talking about how much they love the troops. Substantial cuts need to happen, and much greater than 4%.

177 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:07:58am

I think we should reduce our defense spending to zero because potential enemies "might" decide not to attack us.

178 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:08:09am

What Class War looks like. Read it and decide who is winning:

[Link: jackdean.posterous.com...]

179 researchok  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:08:28am

re: #171 HappyWarrior

Well, when your base is taxaphobic, that plays a large role. Listen, I don't think tax increases are necessary all the time but sometimes they need to be seriously considered and in a time like this it needs to be at the very least on the table.

Good point.

I would add another. With tax hikes come increased revenues that are then used for uses other than intended. Even worse, the feds can borrow predicated on that new tax revenue. The real problem is both parties cannot be counted on to maintain financial discipline.

We lose, new revenues notwithstanding.

180 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:08:28am

re: #164 JasonA

Uh huh. Let's see a Republican politician whose name doesn't end with "Paul" seriously propose that.

Lets see if the senate dems come up with any defense cuts. In case you've forgotten their budget has increased while the dems have been in charge. Lets not pretend that these kinds of cuts are going to be easy for either party but hyperventilating over 4% cuts and cutting non-essential programs isn't going to make it any easier.

181 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:09:00am

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Jindal: Who Needs Volcano Monitoring?

[Video]Lol@wingnuts

Nothing like a little pyroclastic flow at 800 degrees centigrade to brighten your day.

182 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:09:26am

re: #181 celticdragon

Nothing like a little pyroclastic flow at 800 degrees centigrade to brighten your day.

Toasty.

183 RogueOne  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:09:47am

It's been fun folks. Enjoy the rest of your day!

184 Big Steve  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:10:10am

re: #174 celticdragon

The stupid is strong with this one.


Look you may not like wat NJD is saying but he is not stupid.

185 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:10:38am

re: #181 celticdragon

With my furnace out in 37 degree temps outside, that doesn't sound like a bad idea to me LOL

186 Lidane  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:10:40am

OK. I need to get moving soon. The first panels for SXSW start at 2pm and I need to get downtown.

Enjoy your day, Lizards!

187 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:11:09am
#
1908: A magnitude 6.6 quake has now struck in central Japan, AP news agency reports, causing Tokyo buildings to sway. It is not clear if this is connected to the earlier quake and aftershocks. More on this as we get it.
188 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:11:54am

Rogue, let me ask you a straightforward question.

Let's assume that there is some natural occurrence, like tornadoes, say, that currently costs the government the following, where (*) denotes a cost that not constant, but represents the average over a 10-year period:

- $50M monitoring
- $250M infrastructure repair*
- $100M evacuation support*

Now let's say that you could replace that spending with the following:

- $40M monitoring (20% cut!)
- $300M infrastructure repair*
- $120M evacuation support*

Would that $20M cut to a non-essential tornado monitoring service be fiscally responsible?

189 kirkspencer  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:12:04am

If I recall the details correctly, Houston and the state Safety Department held a planning exercise around 1992 that included an evacuation. The evacuation failed miserably in the exercise, and a new plan was begun. However, there was a lot of business and political objection to some pretty significant elements, enough that the plan that existed when Rita came sweeping down was mostly still the 1992 plan with some of the most egregious errors fixed.

Now when I say "political" I'm not just meaning a party trying to stay in power. I'm talking about convincing the city's population that a little tax money is required to pay for personnel and/or equipment. Things like convincing people to allow regulations on traffic corridors that allow emergency services to change things from "normal" to "emergency" with less traffic snarl -- because people would already be paying attention to certain signals.

Oh, and there was the desire to have control of refuel points for evacuating vehicles that didn't happen because oil companies objected. And emergency food, water, and supply stations every 20 miles that changed to every 85 because, well, there wasn't enough money for one every 20 miles.

The problem wasn't just that the plan sucked. The worse problem was the suckage was identified, and the people of Texas and Houston interfered with the government's attempts to fix the plan.

The amazing thing is that it worked as well as it did despite the suck.

190 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:12:29am

re: #67 Obdicut

I'm sorry you went through 'hell'. I'm not sure what your point is, though-- do you think if there had been no evacuation plan whatsoever implemented by the government, the evacuation would have gone more smoothly?

A free market plan of evacuation would have still let all the poor people with brown skins drown in place. Pay to play, right?

191 KronoGhazi  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:12:35am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

Cut the stupid moronic meme bullshit. Mindless echo chamber bullshit.

192 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:14:20am

re: #184 Big Steve

Look you may not like wat NJD is saying but he is not stupid.

Maybe not, but he really did pick one of the worst possible examples in which to bring up that line.

193 dragonfire1981  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:14:21am

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

Because there was an earthquake and tsunami in Japan? When there's a tsunami in, I dunno, Tennessee, we can talk about end times.

It seems like whenever there's a major natural disaster or crisis (2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, Haiti Earthquake, Middle east unrest), the End Times stuff ratchets up.

194 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:14:35am

re: #184 Big Steve

Look you may not like wat NJD is saying but he is not stupid.

I call it as I see it. As a person finishing a geology degree and who is likely to pursue a Ph.D in the field of structural geology dealing with plate tectonics, I have little patience for the kind of blatant, ignorant nonsense that he posted.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:15:09am

re: #193 dragonfire1981

It seems like whenever there's a major natural disaster or crisis (2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, Haiti Earthquake, Middle east unrest), the End Times stuff ratchets up.

Yes, but in that case, the End Times have been going on since the Beginning Times.

196 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:15:34am

re: #194 celticdragon

I call it as I see it. As a person finishing a geology degree and who is likely to pursue a Ph.D in the field of structural geology dealing with plate tectonics, I have little patience for the kind of blatant, ignorant nonsense that he posted.

I don't blame you at all. What he said was stupid. Not the same as being stupid himself but I think what he said was ignorant.

197 KronoGhazi  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:16:39am

Cutting the Pacific Tsunami Center? Morons.

I just took a walk through downtown Kailua Kona. It was bad, but could have been much worse. Some businesses got nailed pretty bad.

Nobody was hurt.

The predictions were fairly accurate as well. Good job PTWS.

198 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:17:12am
#
1915: More from NHK on that new quake: It struck Japan's mountainous Niigata prefecture in the west of the main Honshu island at about 0400 Saturday (1900 GMT Friday), the broadcaster says.
199 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:17:42am

Intelligent people often believe moronic things due to an unwillingness to apply their intelligence to the problem at hand. If you believe you have an ideological framework which is axiomatically correct, then everything else that appears to conflict with it must be false.

Wingnuts aren't necessarily stupid, but they sure as hell are ignorant.

200 KronoGhazi  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:18:25am

re: #184 Big Steve

Look you may not like wat NJD is saying but he is not stupid.

If he is not stupid then what is his excuse for saying something so fucking dumb, the same exact echo chamber crap that comes from Limbeckannity?

201 lawhawk  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:18:54am

re: #198 commadore183

[Link: earthquake.usgs.gov...]

Tons of aftershocks, and some of them are pretty serious in their own right.

202 abbyadams  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:19:10am

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

I have this great country club I want you to join. The dues will never increase.
We won't be able to do any maintenance (painting, and the like) after the first year...

...but the dues will never increase.
Pool water quality will not be monitored after 18 months,
...but the dues will never increase.
The lifeguard will be fired after 24 months,
...but the dues will never increase.
After 30 months, the course greens will never be cut, the clubhouse waitstaff will be let go, and members will be on their own, but it's a great deal because
...the dues will never increase.

203 Interesting Times  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:19:11am

re: #194 celticdragon

I call it as I see it. As a person finishing a geology degree and who is likely to pursue a Ph.D in the field of structural geology dealing with plate tectonics, I have little patience for the kind of blatant, ignorant nonsense that he posted.

His response to any climate change discussion on this board is denialism and sophomoric fart jokes that a 14-year-old would find lacking in wit.

204 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:20:13am

This thread reminds me of this:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

205 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:20:18am

re: #182 Varek Raith

Toasty.

They are seriously nasty. I read some unbelievable things from people who entered St Pierre on Martinique after the pyroclastic flow incinerated the town in 1902 They found carbonized human statues standing in the streets. Other bodies literally exploded from cooking.

206 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:20:19am

re: #202 abbyadams

I have this great country club I want you to join. The dues will never increase.
We won't be able to do any maintenance (painting, and the like) after the first year...

...but the dues will never increase.
Pool water quality will not be monitored after 18 months,
...but the dues will never increase.
The lifeguard will be fired after 24 months,
...but the dues will never increase.
After 30 months, the course greens will never be cut, the clubhouse waitstaff will be let go, and members will be on their own, but it's a great deal because
...the dues will never increase.

Oh, and that high wall over there, with the sound of clinking glasses and laughter coming over it?

Pay no attention to that wall.

207 lawhawk  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:20:19am

More quake details:
[Link: www.google.com...]

208 Achilles Tang  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:20:36am

It is immoral to spend tax money on research that goes towards countering the effects of God's will.

209 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:21:01am

re: #196 HappyWarrior

I don't blame you at all. What he said was stupid. Not the same as being stupid himself but I think what he said was ignorant.

Good point.

210 Killgore Trout  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:21:07am

Footage of Tsunami effect in Sendai harbour area, March 11th, '11

211 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:21:56am

It just amazes me the whole thing to tell you all the truth. The biggest natural disaster I've ever been in was a small level hurricane or tornado. I can't imagine how scary it must have been and be for the people impacted by it. That alone I think is why I will never be an Ayn Randian when it comes to helping people. I feel we have a duty if you will as humans to help each other in need. And I don't care how socialist or whatever that sounds. We are connected by one common thing and that's as shared inhabitant of this earth.

212 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:24:02am

re: #211 HappyWarrior

It just amazes me the whole thing to tell you all the truth. The biggest natural disaster I've ever been in was a small level hurricane or tornado. I can't imagine how scary it must have been and be for the people impacted by it. That alone I think is why I will never be an Ayn Randian when it comes to helping people. I feel we have a duty if you will as humans to help each other in need. And I don't care how socialist or whatever that sounds. We are connected by one common thing and that's as shared inhabitant of this earth.

Commie.

213 garhighway  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:24:14am

I apologize if this was posted earlier, but it seems relevant to this thread now. it is today's Krugman:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

A sample:

To put this in context, you have to realize two things about the fiscal state of America. First, the nation is not, in fact, “broke.” The federal government is having no trouble raising money, and the price of that money — the interest rate on federal borrowing — is very low by historical standards. So there’s no need to scramble to slash spending now now now; we can and should be willing to spend now if it will produce savings in the long run.

Second, while the government does have a long-run fiscal problem, that problem is overwhelmingly driven by rising health care costs. The Congressional Budget Office expects Social Security outlays as a percentage of G.D.P. to rise 30 percent over the next quarter-century, as the population ages, but it expects a near doubling of the share of G.D.P. spent on Medicare and Medicaid.

He goes on, mainly talking about health care, but the main idea applies beyond that narrow (if big) topic.

214 iossarian  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:24:31am

re: #206 iossarian

Oh, and that high wall over there, with the sound of clinking glasses and laughter coming over it?

Pay no attention to that wall.

BTW, the truly sad thing in all this is that the majority of people telling you to ignore the wall have never seen what's behind it, either.

215 kirkspencer  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:25:09am

re: #199 Fozzie Bear

Intelligent people often believe moronic things due to an unwillingness to apply their intelligence to the problem at hand. If you believe you have an ideological framework which is axiomatically correct, then everything else that appears to conflict with it must be false.

Wingnuts aren't necessarily stupid, but they sure as hell are ignorant.

"Government wants to take the money I've earned and give it to someone else who did not earn it. I am willing to give my money to the needy, but I should get to determine who is needy and how much I give." That is a paraphrase of what I've heard a number of times from people I consider wingnuts.

If that is a core assumption, then all the rest of their actions make sense. If you do not live next to a volcano, why do you need volcano monitoring? Tsunamis only matter if you're near the coast. Schools? Why, if my kids are either graduated or going to a private school? And so on, and so forth.

It's easy to think of it as IGMFY, but the truth is that the people I know of as wingnuts are very supportive of the people they know who are in need. A couple of them have gone an extra mile to help me (three years unemployed SUCKS) in my wife's medical situation.

But most have difficulty picturing anyone they don't know as "people" -- other than as "stranger == danger". And that guides everything they review and consider when deciding what's probably true and probably useful.

216 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:25:12am

re: #212 Varek Raith

Commie.


Hahaha well my Dad did tell me that I was named after John Lennon kinda.

217 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:25:20am

re: #211 HappyWarrior

It just amazes me the whole thing to tell you all the truth. The biggest natural disaster I've ever been in was a small level hurricane or tornado. I can't imagine how scary it must have been and be for the people impacted by it. That alone I think is why I will never be an Ayn Randian when it comes to helping people. I feel we have a duty if you will as humans to help each other in need. And I don't care how socialist or whatever that sounds. We are connected by one common thing and that's as shared inhabitant of this earth.

What you say just sounds like common human decency. It also makes you the mortal enemy of movement conservatism.

218 lawhawk  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:25:29am

CNN reports an estimated 6.6-magnitude earthquake has struck Nagano and Niigata prefectures in Japan, Kyodo news service reports. USGS is calling it a 6.2.

219 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:26:31am

re: #218 lawhawk

CNN reports an estimated 6.6-magnitude earthquake has struck Nagano and Niigata prefectures in Japan, Kyodo news service reports. USGS is calling it a 6.2.

I think the closer to the event the seismographs are, the more noise they pick up.
I think...

220 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:26:54am

OT: but apparently Keith Ellison the rep from Minnesota and Muslim who was part of the panel Peter King had yesterday teared up when talking about a 23 year old Muslim first responder who died at the WTC. And seems the usual suspects are mocking the guy. What the hell is wrong with them? I swear there are a lot of loud voices in today's right who seem to think you can't be a good Muslim and American. That's such nonsense, it's not even funny.

221 celticdragon  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:28:58am

re: #201 lawhawk

[Link: earthquake.usgs.gov...]

Tons of aftershocks, and some of them are pretty serious in their own right.

Yep. The quake was over 6 miles down, which is really frakking deep. It would have to be on or in a subducted plate margin, since at that depth the normal geothermal gradient would mean you would have plastic deformation (no earthquakes) instead of brittle deformation. On subduction boundaries like the west coast of America and the east coast of Japan, the old, cold oceanic crust that is being over-ridden by the less dense continent tends to cool and rheostatically strengthen the surrounding lithosphere. The geothermal gradient is radically depressed, and you can get earthquakes much deeper what you would normally experience.

222 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:29:01am

re: #217 Fozzie Bear

What you say just sounds like common human decency. It also makes you the mortal enemy of movement conservatism.

You know in my brief academic experiences with philosophy, there really is no philosopher I despised more than Ayn Rand. I can understand not wanting force people to kind to their follow man but Rand called charity immoral I believe. I just remember seeing an old interview of her on Phil Donohue in my class and thinking man she's cold as hell.

223 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:29:10am

re: #211 HappyWarrior

It just amazes me the whole thing to tell you all the truth. The biggest natural disaster I've ever been in was a small level hurricane or tornado. I can't imagine how scary it must have been and be for the people impacted by it. That alone I think is why I will never be an Ayn Randian when it comes to helping people. I feel we have a duty if you will as humans to help each other in need. And I don't care how socialist or whatever that sounds. We are connected by one common thing and that's as shared inhabitant of this earth.

More like HippyWarrior...

224 HappyWarrior  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:29:48am

re: #223 Girth

More like HippyWarrior...

Haha, runs in the family :).

225 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:33:24am

Wish I can understand Japanese so I can follow along with NHK's coverage heheh.

Nothing more about the Fukushima I NPP #1 reactor.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:33:32am

re: #220 HappyWarrior

OT: but apparently Keith Ellison the rep from Minnesota and Muslim who was part of the panel Peter King had yesterday teared up when talking about a 23 year old Muslim first responder who died at the WTC. And seems the usual suspects are mocking the guy. What the hell is wrong with them? I swear there are a lot of loud voices in today's right who seem to think you can't be a good Muslim and American. That's such nonsense, it's not even funny.

Do these people make fun of Boehner when he cries?

(And usually he's not crying about, you know, dead heroes or anything like that.)

227 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:34:28am

Mmm...Coca-Cola is so good it should be bad for you.

Wait...it is?

Oh...OK then.

Carry on.

228 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:36:06am

The 6.2 quake in Nagano was only a kilometer deep?
Sounds awfully shallow.

229 Mickey_being_mickey  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:42:17am

Hey don't worry the dominionists are already claiming this earthquake is part of the end times.

Today, Japan was hit by an absolutely devastating earthquake and subsequent tsunami and so, of course, the Religious Right reacts as they always do ... by seeing it as a sign of the End Times:

Tim LaHaye, the best-selling author of the "Left Behind" series of Bible prophecy novels, was one of many visiting the island of Maui who had to be evacuated to upper floors of the Marriott Hotel today.

He said being caught in the crossfire of the fourth largest earthquake in modern history helped prepare him for two prophecy conferences he was scheduled to address in Hawaii.

"The Bible tells us in Matthew 24 that one of the signs of the last days – one of the birth pangs to occur – is an increase in earthquake activity and intensity," LaHaye told WND. "We're seeing that happen here. It's not just earthquakes, but hurricanes and all kinds of natural disasters."

Right Wing Watch

230 Gus  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:42:27am

We don't need any tsunami centers! All we have to do is nuke the ocean when a tsunami is about to hit or invade the country that made the tsunami.

//Wingnut

231 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:43:45am
#
1940: The 8.9-magnitude earthquake which struck Japan on Friday was the strongest in the area in nearly 1,200 years, David Applegate, a senior science adviser at the US Geological Survey, tells the Associated Press. He says the quake ruptured a patch of the earth's crust 240km (150 miles) long and 80km (50 miles) across.
232 webevintage  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:45:03am

So much sadness and crazy today that so far may favorite story is this:

That’s why Shirley Sherrod was immediately fired by the White House while the Lame Stream Media nodded approvingly and only Wonkette bothered to look at the allegedly damning video closely enough to see that Breitbart’s crew had carefully edited it to make Sherrod sound like a raving racist. Likewise, the firing of NPR executive Ron Schiller and his CEO boss was cheered by the liberal media and got solemn nods from Democrats in Washington. Only Glenn Beck’s reporters at his website, The Blaze, bothered to watch the unedited footage and note that the various bombshells in the video were taken out of context (the opinions of others made to look like the opinions of Schiller, for example) and that Schiller’s pro-Republican statements were (obviously) all cut out of the video released by O’Keefe.

[Link: wonkette.com...]

233 Martinsmithy  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:54:14am

Mother Nature to climate-denialist Republicans: GFY.

234 b_snark  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:54:39am

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

How right you are. I have an earthquake monitoring system, and a tsunami alarm system built into the hurricane/tornado tracking system in my basement among all the other multi-billion dollar technological equipment there.

235 Girth  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 11:56:24am

re: #229 Mickey_being_mickey

Hey don't worry the dominionists are already claiming this earthquake is part of the end times.

Right Wing Watch

"The Bible tells us in Matthew 24 that one of the signs of the last days – one of the birth pangs to occur – is an increase in earthquake activity and intensity," LaHaye told WND. "We're seeing that happen here. It's not just earthquakes, but hurricanes and all kinds of natural disasters."

Hmm...

Matthew 24:11

And many false prophets shall rise, and will deceive many.


Isn't it ironic, don'tcha think?

236 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:03:12pm

re: #43 JasonA

Oh, and our government is sending Japan coolant for their reactors. I don't see the free market doing fuck all for that.

Might have to amend this. It now sounds as if it was the Japanese gov't doing this, and Clinton misspoke. Point still stands though, I think.

237 lawhawk  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:06:32pm

re: #221 celticdragon

It looks like it was a real shallow quake - just below the surface at .6 miles (1km). That could cause significant damage because the rupture zone is close to the surface but is localized in extent. The 8.9 quake was felt over a much wider area.

238 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:11:16pm

Here's home video of someone riding out the quake at home:

239 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:14:39pm
#
2006: Three to four new power supply cars have arrived at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant in north-eastern Japan to provide emergency electricity for the earthquake-damaged cooling system of one reactor, the World Nuclear Association has said. The power cars are being prepared for connection, the WNA said, citing the Japanese ministry of economy, trade and industry. Other power modules are being flown in.


#
2009: The World Nuclear Association said pressure inside the containment of Reactor 1 at Fukushima-Daichi had been steadily increasing over the time that its emergency core cooling systems had not been active. The Tokyo Electric Power Company reported at 0200 local time (1700 GMT) that pressure had increased beyond reference levels, but was within engineered limits, the WNA added.
240 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:16:32pm

Oy:
@CBSNews
CBS News
Coast Guard searching for man swept out to sea in Northern Calif. while taking pics of tsunami

241 Fozzie Bear  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:18:40pm

re: #240 JasonA

Dude couldn't have found a hill to stand on? Ugh.

I feel bad for this guy, and I hope they find him but.... really? If they save this guy's life, and I hope they do, he deserves a firm slap upside the head.

242 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:19:13pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Pretty amazing: Sky scrapers swaying

[Video]

I bet those skyscrapers were built without any regulatory building codes to interfere, and that's the reason they didn't collapse.

243 Four More Tears  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:19:54pm

Map of the Damage From the Japanese Earthquake
An interactive map and photographs of places in Japan that were damaged by the March 11 earthquake and subsequent tsunami.

244 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:25:38pm
#
2021: Contact has been lost with four trains in Miyagi and Iwate prefectures, Japan's official Kyodo news agency reports.
246 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:41:13pm

Here's a UStream channel of someone watching the local news in Japan and translating it:

[Link: www.ustream.tv...]

247 palomino  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 12:51:51pm

re: #184 Big Steve

Look you may not like wat NJD is saying but he is not stupid.

We can only judge people by their comments, and that was some seriously stupid shit. By his "logic" we should get rid of the military and all defend the country individually.

You really think it's realistic for us to be a nation of 300 million individual natural disaster detectors? Good luck with that.

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 1:37:37pm

re: #13 NJDhockeyfan

That's right...nobody knows how take care of themselves, only the government knows how to protect you.
//

It's amazing how we have been able to become the country we have become without the hands of Uncle Sam holding our hands every step of the way thoughout our lives.

hahahahahaha wow dude, -33, well done

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 1:39:48pm

re: #31 Big Steve

I thought the media did a great job today alerting people to the threat. With a TV on everywhere, the internet on everywhere, and every living creature having a cell phone to receive news and texts, I am not sure either that there is much call for a government run center.

hahahaha you're kidding right?

250 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 1:44:29pm

Some disturbing news out from the Fukushima I NPP (via BBC News):

#
2132: The Tokyo Electric Power Company has said radiation may already have been released at the Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant.


#
2139: Radiation levels at the damaged Fukushima-Daiichi nuclear plant are continuing to rise. The Jiji Press news agency says the levels are eight times above normal. Its report also cites a ministry official as saying there is a "possibility of a radioactive leak".
251 Spocomptonite  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 3:22:25pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

From an engineering and physics standpoint, that is absolutely mesmerizing to watch.

252 lewispryor  Fri, Mar 11, 2011 9:01:32pm

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

Was Aristotle Belgian?


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