State Dept. Spokesman PJ Crowley Resigns Over Manning Remarks

‘Ridiculous, counterproductive, and stupid’
Politics • Views: 21,255

State Department spokesman PJ Crowley resigned today, over his reported criticism of the Defense Department’s handling of the Bradley Manning case.

Crowley will step down as early as Sunday afternoon, the officials said, because White House officials are furious about his suggestion that the Obama administration is mistreating Manning, the Army private who is being held in solitary confinement in Quantico, Virginia, under suspicion that he leaked highly classified State Department cables to the website Wikileaks.

Speaking to a small group at MIT last week, Crowley was asked about allegations that Manning is being tortured and kicked up a firestorm by answering that what is being done to Manning by Defense Department officials “is ridiculous and counterproductive and stupid.”

Crowley did add that “nonetheless, Bradley Manning is in the right place” because of his alleged crimes, according to a blog post by BBC reporter Philippa Thomas, who was present at Crowley’s talk.

But Crowley has told friends that he is deeply concerned that mistreatment of Manning could undermine the legitimate prosecution of the young private.

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33 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:11:52pm

Agree or disagree with him, it's stupid for an official to criticize his own govt and respect to remain in office. Right call.

2 recusancy  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:13:26pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

Agree or disagree with him, it's stupid for an official to criticize his own govt and respect to remain in office. Right call.

I agree with him but you may be right.

3 McSpiff  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:13:28pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

Agree or disagree with him, it's stupid for an official to criticize his own govt and respect to remain in office. Right call.

A government spokesperson no less. For some reason I don't think "We're stupid" makes an acceptable official position.

4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:13:49pm

I feel much pity for the traitor.
/
(meaning, of course, manning)

5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:14:51pm

(my brackets are already messed up)

6 reine.de.tout  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:15:11pm

re: #3 McSpiff

A government spokesperson no less. For some reason I don't think "We're stupid" makes an acceptable official position.

Exactly.
It doesn't.

7 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:15:40pm

re: #4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I feel much pity for the traitor.
/
(meaning, of course, manning)

Alleged pity for an alleged traitor? ///

8 recusancy  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:16:06pm

re: #4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I feel much pity for the traitor.
/
(meaning, of course, manning)

What happened to "guilty until proven innocent"?

9 reine.de.tout  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:17:37pm

re: #3 McSpiff

A government spokesperson no less. For some reason I don't think "We're stupid" makes an acceptable official position.

That's a rookie mistake, esp. for a State Dept spokesperson.

I don't know much about Crowley - what's his background, anybody know who would like to share so I don't have to go look it up? Please?

10 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:17:40pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

Agree or disagree with him, it's stupid for an official to criticize his own govt and respect to remain in office. Right call.

QTF. However you may feel about the boss's decision, you can't expect to publicly oppose his decision like Crowley did and keep your job if you are a spokesman. The spokesman for a department is responsible articulating the president's policy, not his own.

11 Stanghazi  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:17:52pm

Apparently Manning's father said he's fine. The people freaking out are having a hard time dealing with this statement.

The far left/libertarians groups are basically transferring their own feelings onto the Manning episode.

It's actually very interesting to watch.

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:19:12pm

re: #8 recusancy

What happened to "guilty until proven innocent"?

Guilty until proven innocent is the principle for the _state_. Not for the society. I will presume OJ Simpson's guilt (on the basis of available evidence), but the state can't.

13 McSpiff  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:20:33pm

re: #9 reine.de.tout

That's a rookie mistake, esp. for a State Dept spokesperson.

I don't know much about Crowley - what's his background, anybody know who would like to share so I don't have to go look it up? Please?

Crowley ain't a rookie. National Security Council spokesperson under Pres. Clinton, former Air Force Colonel, various other national security related gigs. He really should have known better.

14 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:20:45pm

If mistreatment at the hands of government can happen to the guilty, and errors in guilt determination are relatively common, then anyone can be mistreated at the hands of government.

Which is most important, punishing the guilty, or protecting the innocent. Which way should the justice system be weighted?

15 lawhawk  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:21:00pm

re: #11 Stanley Sea

Linky about Manning's father?

16 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:21:23pm

re: #14 b_sharp

If mistreatment at the hands of government can happen to the guilty, and errors in guilt determination are relatively common, then anyone can be mistreated at the hands of government.

Which is most important, punishing the guilty, or protecting the innocent. Which way should the justice system be weighted?

Manning should not be mistreated and Crowley should not be the spokesperson.

17 recusancy  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:21:52pm

re: #16 Sergey Romanov

Manning should not be mistreated and Crowley should not be the spokesperson.

This.

18 reine.de.tout  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:21:53pm

re: #13 McSpiff

Crowley ain't a rookie. National Security Council spokesperson under Pres. Clinton, former Air Force Colonel, various other national security related gigs. He really should have known better.

Oh, yeah.

Sometimes folks like that speaking before a group forget they are representing the administration 24/7, and think that they've been asked for their PERSONAL opinion, and of course they have one, and it may or may not match the administration's. But in a position like that, you're not ever really off-duty. Ever.

19 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:22:06pm

re: #12 Sergey Romanov

Guilty until proven innocent is the principle for the _state_. Not for the society. I will presume OJ Simpson's guilt (on the basis of available evidence), but the state can't.

I think you mean innocent until proven guilty. Unless there has been a big change in the US I haven't heard of.

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:22:24pm

re: #16 Sergey Romanov

Manning should not be mistreated and Crowley should not be the spokesperson.

(Note, I'm not making any assumptions about whether or not M. is mistreated.)

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:23:11pm

re: #19 b_sharp

I think you mean innocent until proven guilty. Unless there has been a big change in the US I haven't heard of.

OK, I simply copied without "seeing". Happens.

22 Stanghazi  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:23:18pm

re: #15 lawhawk

Linky about Manning's father?

I just googled this. Haven't read/listened.

My observation was from tweets I read this morning.

[Link: www.pbs.org...]

23 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:23:20pm

re: #18 reine.de.tout

Oh, yeah.

Sometimes folks like that speaking before a group forget they are representing the administration 24/7, and think that they've been asked for their PERSONAL opinion, and of course they have one, and it may or may not match the administration's. But in a position like that, you're not ever really off-duty. Ever.

Concur.

24 reine.de.tout  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:23:39pm

re: #21 Sergey Romanov

OK, I simply copied without "seeing". Happens.

You saw what you expected to see, not what was really there?

So very easy to do.

25 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:23:43pm

re: #20 Sergey Romanov

(Note, I'm not making any assumptions about whether or not M. is mistreated.)

So noted.

26 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:25:19pm

re: #21 Sergey Romanov

OK, I simply copied without "seeing". Happens.

I figured.

27 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:26:31pm

re: #24 reine.de.tout

You saw what you expected to see, not what was really there?

So very easy to do.

It's a "block of thought", kind of like we regularly read (comprehend) the words by looking their beginning and end and "assuming" the middle.

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 3:28:03pm

So to restate the mangled thought: innocent until proven guilty is the principle for the _state_. Not for the society. I will presume OJ Simpson's guilt (on the basis of available evidence), but the state can't.

29 boxhead  Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:36:11pm

While I understand many folks sentiment concerning Manning's alleged actions, I'd like to think the USA is above school yard punishment. If what he did is worthy of an indictment, then do that. Next, prosecute and convict. Then apply the proper sentence. Divorce emotion from Constitutional application of Law. Do not debase ourselves because we feel hurt. Remember, ones wish for revenge or justice while our blood is up (which I VERY MUCH understand) is not what USA should be about. That is one of the traits I see in other countries that I loathe.

Aren't we better than that?

30 Jeezaloo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:30am

re: #28 Sergey Romanov

So to restate the mangled thought: innocent until proven guilty is the principle for the _state_. Not for the society. I will presume OJ Simpson's guilt (on the basis of available evidence), but the state can't.

I'd hope that everyone in my society strives to maintain the presumption of innocence. Either way, if a lot of people have little faith in the justice system to provide justice, we have a problem.

31 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:21:36am

re: #30 Jeezaloo

I'd hope that everyone in my society strives to maintain the presumption of innocence. Either way, if a lot of people have little faith in the justice system to provide justice, we have a problem.

OK, this is the end of the thread so I may as well go for it and godwin it: Hitler and Stalin were never tried for their major crimes. Now you may say this is not analogous to your fellow citizens around you. Except it is. With the same methodology we establish the unindicted dictators' crimes we can establish the crimes of folks who somehow cheated the system (like OJ). The problem with waiting for the courts' decisions? The courts depend on technicalities too much, so the lack of "guilty" finding does not necessarily prove anything in each particular case (although it is a factor to consider).

32 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:53:18am

It seems many people confuse the presumption of innocence with mindlessly believing someone to be innocent. They are not the same thing.

In the mean time there's a lot of information to build a case on Manning, so it takes some time to build it. How about presuming a case will be brought against him once the case has been fully investigated?

33 spool32  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 2:24:58pm

Crowley was on the way out anyhow... this just sped up the timetable somewhat.

Minor-league mistake, though.


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