Japan on the Brink of a Major Nuclear Disaster

Catastrophic failure
World • Views: 29,469

There’s no good news from Japan tonight: Japan Faces Potential Nuclear Disaster as Radiation Levels Rise.

TOKYO — Japan faced the likelihood of a catastrophic nuclear accident Tuesday morning, as an explosion at the most crippled of three reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station damaged its crucial steel containment structure, emergency workers were withdrawn from the plant, and a fire at a fourth reactor spewed large amounts of radioactive material into the air, according to official statements and industry executives informed about the developments.

“No. 4 is currently burning and we assume radiation is being released. We are trying to put out the fire and cool down the reactor,” the chief government spokesman, Yukio Edano, told a televised press conference. “There were no fuel rods in the reactor, but spent fuel rods are inside.”

Government officials also said the containment structure of the No. 2 reactor had suffered damage during an explosion shortly after 6 a.m. on Tuesday.

They initially suggested that the damage was limited and that emergency operations aimed at cooling the nuclear fuel at three stricken reactors with seawater would continue. But industry executives said that in fact the situation had spiraled out of control and that all plant workers needed to leave the plant to avoid excessive exposure to radioactive leaks.

If all workers do in fact leave the plant, the nuclear fuel in all three reactors is likely to melt down, which would lead to wholesale releases of radioactive material — by far the largest accident of its kind since the Chernobyl disaster 25 years ago.

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686 comments
1 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:27:11pm

Sounds like the spent fuel pool's water had seeped away.

2 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:28:28pm

In the words of Sam Beckett...

Oh boy.

3 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:29:27pm

I can only assume that, given their history, this is even more terrifying than it would be for another nation.

Holy shit. This is just getting worse and worse.

4 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:29:55pm

Those people have been through enough. Now? They're re-terrified.

Prayers to the folks of all of Japan.

5 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:30:31pm

Goodnight, good friends.

6 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:33:33pm

Not good at all. Makes you wonder if they didn't use the spent fuel pools to try to cool the active reactors earlier.

7 JAFO  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:36:08pm

They really aren't getting a handle on things at all. Where are heavy lift choppers with generators and power stations? They seem like a decapitated chicken running around.

8 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:36:14pm

re: #2 JasonA

In the words of Sam Beckett...

Oh boy.

Oh Shit is more like it. If this is true, then the meltdowns are going to leave the area uninhabitable.

9 beartiger  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:37:59pm

I feel played by the sensationalist media. They keep talking about terrible things that might happen if some other improbable terrible thing happens. As my mother says, don't borrow trouble.

10 BishopX  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:38:06pm

re: #6 Thanos

The spent pools are typically on top of the reactor, and fairly small relative to the amount of water needed to cool the reactor. If you look at fig. 2 here. Each reactor should be chewing through more than 60 gallons per minute (down from nearly 100 at the start of reaction shut down). Also if you drain the pool, you need to fill it again fairly quickly, which kinda defeats the point.

11 Jimmi the Grey  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:38:31pm

re: #2 JasonA

In the words of Sam Beckett...

Oh boy.

In the words of Han Solo...

"I've got a really bad feeling about this"

12 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:39:08pm

re: #10 BishopX

Yep.

13 Stanghazi  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:39:13pm

Just now via twitter

CBSNews CBS News
by News3David

French Embassy says low-level radioactive wind from the nuclear reactor in could reach Tokyo within 10 hours [Link: bit.ly...] #japan

14 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:39:52pm

re: #7 mracb

They really aren't getting a handle on things at all. Where are heavy lift choppers with generators and power stations? They seem like a decapitated chicken running around.

My understanding is that some of the electrical equipment needed to power the normal pumps was located below the reactors and got flooded by the tsunami. It wasn't just generators, it included switching equipment and such.

This is really terrible: as bad as it can get. Now they are left to pray for favorable winds.

15 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:39:54pm

re: #11 Jimmi the Grey

In the words of Han Solo...

"I've got a really bad feeling about this"

"It's a trap!"

/

16 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:40:53pm

re: #7 mracb

They really aren't getting a handle on things at all. Where are heavy lift choppers with generators and power stations? They seem like a decapitated chicken running around.

The Japanese are supposedly the best at nuclear technology in the world. They aren't incompetent. They may just be overwhelmed.

17 JAFO  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:41:15pm

re: #14 garhighway

My understanding is that some of the electrical equipment needed to power the normal pumps was located below the reactors and got flooded by the tsunami. It wasn't just generators, it included switching equipment and such.

This is really terrible: as bad as it can get. Now they are left to pray for favorable winds.

ah, I hadn't heard that yet. Thanks

18 BishopX  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:41:56pm

re: #12 Thanos

My bad on your earlier post, I read it as "why didn't they..."

19 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:42:26pm

re: #13 Stanley Sea

WHAT!?!?! This goes way beyond "Oh Shit." I'm already wound up about the Earthquake and the Libya situation, now a potential Chernobyl?! I pray that something happens to stop this.

20 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:44:00pm

Here's a good write up:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

21 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:44:29pm

But Walter is concerned that anti nuke activists will use this incident to support their position...

Damn.

22 BishopX  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:45:12pm

re: #14 garhighway

What they're currently doing (or at least what they were trying to do prior to the explosion) was to pump a bunch of seawater into the reactor and then manually vent the resulting steam to avoid an explosion. Reactor 2 was unable to vent steam for a while due to a stuck valve, it's also possible that they were unable to pump water in at the same time.

23 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:45:14pm

re: #19 ProLifeLiberal

WHAT!?!?! This goes way beyond "Oh Shit." I'm already wound up about the Earthquake and the Libya situation, now a potential Chernobyl?! I pray that something happens to stop this.

It's not a potential Chernobyl in so many different ways. It's on the level with Three Mile Island so far.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

24 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:45:20pm

re: #16 Conservative Moonbat

The Japanese are supposedly the best at nuclear technology in the world. They aren't incompetent. They may just be overwhelmed.

re: #16 Conservative Moonbat

The Japanese are supposedly the best at nuclear technology in the world. They aren't incompetent. They may just be overwhelmed.

They aren't. They've been hiding problems at those plants for years.

25 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:46:01pm

re: #3 SanFranciscoZionist

I can only assume that, given their history, this is even more terrifying than it would be for another nation.

This is where Godzilla and his fellow monsters come in. In many ways those early movies (as opposed to later Hollywood knock-offs), like some of the 1950's monster movies in the US, are about dealing with something terrible that at the same time is part of yourself and can even be beneficial.

26 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:46:18pm

re: #24 recusancy

re: #16 Conservative Moonbat

They aren't. They've been hiding problems at those plants for years.

Heh. We built those.

27 BishopX  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:47:04pm

re: #23 Conservative Moonbat

Well, it's considerably worse than 3MI right now, but it won't be as bad as Chernobyl.

28 JAFO  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:05pm

re: #23 Conservative Moonbat

It's not a potential Chernobyl in so many different ways. It's on the level with Three Mile Island so far.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

It's past 3 mile island now and could get as bad as Chernobyl.

29 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:06pm

re: #24 recusancy

They aren't. They've been hiding problems at those plants for years.

Which brings up another point I wanted to make. Whether or not the government (Kan, Edano) have been handling this well or not, it seems to me that the level of openness and transparency the world wants on this issue is something rather foreign to Japanese culture. TEPCO and the Japanese media haven't been particularly helpful. And to make matters even worse the translations into foreign languages, if the English translations are any indication, only makes things worse.

30 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:17pm

re: #1 Ojoe

Sounds like the spent fuel pool's water had seeped away.

Even without leaks, the water would evaporate fairly quickly from the heat. The spent rods would then overheat, and likely, melt and/or burn. Bad scenario. Perhaps as bad as the reactor meltdowns, or worse.

31 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:28pm

re: #20 Conservative Moonbat

Here's a good write up:

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

The core of a nuclear reactor operates at about 550 degrees Fahrenheit, well below the temperature of a coal furnace and only slightly hotter than a kitchen oven. If anything unusual occurs, the control rods immediately drop, shutting off the nuclear reaction. You can't have a "runaway reactor," nor can a reactor explode like a nuclear bomb. A commercial reactor is to a bomb what Vaseline is to napalm. Although both are made from petroleum jelly, only one of them has potentially explosive material.

This is bullshit of the first degree.

A normally functioning reactor is at that temperature. A reactor with no coolant is over 800 degrees centigrade. The Uranium fuel melts into insanely radioactive lava...and there does appear to be some melting taking place according to numerous sources

Now we get to find out if the steel/concrete containment vessel in number 2 reactor will hold it.

32 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:45pm

re: #22 BishopX

What they're currently doing (or at least what they were trying to do prior to the explosion) was to pump a bunch of seawater into the reactor and then manually vent the resulting steam to avoid an explosion. Reactor 2 was unable to vent steam for a while due to a stuck valve, it's also possible that they were unable to pump water in at the same time.

What I've read is that they have pulled back almost all the plant workers because radiation levels are now too high. It sounds like they have just about thrown in the towel.

33 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:49:38pm

re: #29 freetoken

Which brings up another point I wanted to make. Whether or not the government (Kan, Edano) have been handling this well or not, it seems to me that the level of openness and transparency the world wants on this issue is something rather foreign to Japanese culture. TEPCO and the Japanese media haven't been particularly helpful. And to make matters even worse the translations into foreign languages, if the English translations are any indication, only makes things worse.

Yup. They were trying to hide things from a populace overly afraid of "nuclear" anything. When the populace freaks out the government does dumb shit. ie: post 9/11

34 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:49:51pm

re: #27 BishopX

Well, it's considerably worse than 3MI right now, but it won't be as bad as Chernobyl.

We've gone beyond 3 Mile Island at this point.

35 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:51:06pm

re: #32 garhighway

What I've read is that they have pulled back almost all the plant workers because radiation levels are now too high. It sounds like they have just about thrown in the towel.

Those workers are heroes for staying as long as they have in my book.

37 justaminute  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:53:39pm

From what I've been reading over at FDL and Crooks and Liars and other sites they said if the stored spent fuel rod pools catch on fire it could become Chernobyl on steroids.

38 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:53:57pm

These poor people.

My heart goes out to them. How much more can thew endure?

The northeast is not a major industrial area. Seafood, shipping, and power generation are the major employers.

Imagine having to relocate the entire population of Northern California and relocating them south, feeding them, housing them, and then finding them work.

Gah, Brutal.

39 albusteve  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:55:12pm
40 NervyNews  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:56:14pm

If only there was a Superman who could restore everything by flying 'round the globe.

41 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:56:39pm

re: #23 Conservative Moonbat

It's not a potential Chernobyl in so many different ways. It's on the level with Three Mile Island so far.

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

The author of that writes for the American Spectator. 'Nuff said.

42 Gus  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:57:10pm

re: #40 GNIDAthe#seCond

If only there was a Superman who could restore everything by flying 'round the globe.

43 BishopX  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:57:57pm

Good night all.

44 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:59:31pm

re: #28 mracb

It's past 3 mile island now and could get as bad as Chernobyl.

No, Not. Chernobyl blew the roof of the reactor and the carbon core caught fire. Completely different design. Really. Know of what you speak before spouting off. Too many science guys on this board. No downdings until you get all stupid again. Then we will hammer your ass for being rock dumb.

45 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:59:44pm

re: #38 austin_blue


Imagine having to relocate the entire population of Northern California and relocating them south, feeding them, housing them, and then finding them work.


Proportionally, what Japan is going through right now is roughly the same as Katrina had on the US. About the same share of displaced (for the foreseeable future) people, though as far as deaths are concerned this tsunami is more deadly than Katrina.

There is another similarity - impact on energy. In the case of Katrina (and her sister hurricanes), the oil importing and refinery industry was severely disrupted (remember the fuel sharing from other OECD countries?) In this case Japan's electrical generating capacity is compromised.

46 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:59:44pm

re: #31 celticdragon

This is bullshit of the first degree.

A normally functioning reactor is at that temperature. A reactor with no coolant is over 800 degrees centigrade. The Uranium fuel melts into insanely radioactive lava...and there does appear to be some melting taking place according to numerous sources

Now we get to find out if the steel/concrete containment vessel in number 2 reactor will hold it.

According to the footnote, this Tucker is a nuclear advocate, so he clearly has an interest in quashing talk of disaster.

47 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:00:08pm

re: #37 justaminute

From what I've been reading over at FDL and Crooks and Liars and other sites they said if the stored spent fuel rod pools catch on fire it could become Chernobyl on steroids.

Not saying they aren't right but you may want to read scientific sites for information on this rather than political blogs.

48 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:01:31pm

I'm watching the English-language NHK feed. They are reading off radiation levels like they are doing the weather. "The level at Kawasaki is..."

Surreal.

Now they are expanding the evacuation zone.

49 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:01:45pm

re: #44 austin_blue

No, Not. Chernobyl blew the roof of the reactor and the carbon core caught fire. Completely different design. Really. Know of what you speak before spouting off. Too many science guys on this board. No downdings until you get all stupid again. Then we will hammer your ass for being rock dumb.

indeed. These reactors have containment structures that will greatly reduce any radiation leakage. It may still be a disaster, but a Chernobyl is very unlikely.

50 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:02:38pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

indeed. These reactors have containment structures that will greatly reduce any radiation leakage. It may still be a disaster, but a Chernobyl is very unlikely.

I've read a report that says one of the containment vessels is damaged.

51 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:03:51pm

re: #39 albusteve

mind boggling, just unreal

It is, isn't it? But no one prepares for a 9.0 and few survive one. Just one huge motherfucker of hell on Earth.

But there you go.

I'd blame George W., but it's just geology. This shit happens. Rarely, but when it does, Katy bar the door and hide the children.

52 elizajane  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:04:17pm

The IAEA has rolling updates on the nuclear plants in Japan. They are generally much less alarming than what you get from the media. Ever the optimist, I am checking their website more often than CNN or even the BBC. They're the experts, right?

[Link: www.iaea.org...]

53 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:05:35pm

NHK feed, via TPM:

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

54 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:06:10pm

BREAKING NEWS: Topix futures trading suspended briefly after plunges in Tokyo stocks


BREAKING NEWS: Nikkei stock index widens losses, diving over 1,200 points, or 12.5%

55 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:07:30pm

re: #44 austin_blue

No, Not. Chernobyl blew the roof of the reactor and the carbon core caught fire. Completely different design. Really. Know of what you speak before spouting off. Too many science guys on this board. No downdings until you get all stupid again. Then we will hammer your ass for being rock dumb.

I guess one problem that most of us have, myself included, is that we really don't know just how bad this can get. Any thoughts on that?

56 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:07:33pm

re: #52 elizajane

The IAEA has rolling updates on the nuclear plants in Japan. They are generally much less alarming than what you get from the media. Ever the optimist, I am checking their website more often than CNN or even the BBC. They're the experts, right?

[Link: www.iaea.org...]

That sounds much better

57 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:07:36pm

re: #54 freetoken

BREAKING NEWS: Topix futures trading suspended briefly after plunges in Tokyo stocks


BREAKING NEWS: Nikkei stock index widens losses, diving over 1,200 points, or 12.5%

Larry Kudlow weeps for the lost market value.

58 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:09:56pm

re: #56 McSpiff

.... because it's out of date...

59 JAFO  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:10:23pm

re: #44 austin_blue

No, Not. Chernobyl blew the roof of the reactor and the carbon core caught fire. Completely different design. Really. Know of what you speak before spouting off. Too many science guys on this board. No downdings until you get all stupid again. Then we will hammer your ass for being rock dumb.

Well currently there are 3 core meltdowns of various stages, and 1 currently burning pool of spent rods with possibly up to 8 more. That's going to be pretty close to Chernobyl even though they are different designs.. When the cores melt through their steel casing and hit cold water there's going to be a massive dirty bomb detonated.

60 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:10:42pm

re: #58 freetoken

... because it's out of date...

Ah. Well, shit.

61 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:12:19pm

re: #60 McSpiff

Ah. Well, shit.

Plus that's just info from Japanese authorities. They aren't exactly being forthcoming with anybody.

62 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:12:27pm

re: #51 austin_blue

It is, isn't it? But no one prepares for a 9.0 and few survive one. Just one huge motherfucker of hell on Earth.

But there you go.


I'd blame George W., but it's just geology.
This shit happens. Rarely, but when it does, Katy bar the door and hide the children.

Extra, Extra! Liberal does NOT blame Bush for something!

/just kidding

63 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:12:53pm

If we must build these nuclear Balrogs, let us at least site them in tandem with hydro plants that have a huge reserve of water under a sufficient static head.

Good night.

64 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:13:09pm

re: #56 McSpiff

That sounds much better

Remember, there are two plants with issues. I think the bulletin about the one in "cold shutdown" status is the other one.

65 Gus  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:13:10pm

2500 confirmed dead. 17,000 missing.

66 Boyo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:13:48pm

"reactors are considered to be safely under control"

from [Link: www.iaea.org...]

is that right?

67 Gus  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:13:50pm

450,000 in shelters.

68 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:14:00pm

Well, I was productive for a few hours.

What were you?

69 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:15:02pm

re: #64 garhighway

Remember, there are two plants with issues. I think the bulletin about the one in "cold shutdown" status is the other one.

Yup, wrong plant.

70 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:15:30pm

re: #21 celticdragon

We will almost all be anti-nuke activists by the time this is over.

Good night again.

71 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:16:05pm

re: #55 JasonA

I guess one problem that most of us have, myself included, is that we really don't know just how bad this can get. Any thoughts on that?

Worst that can happen with a 1972 GE reactor? The fuel melts, breaches the containment vessel and turns into a glowing gopher that contaminates groundwater for miles around. It will probably not explode like Chernobyl.

The establishment of a Chernobyl-like exclusion zone in the area of air and shallow groundwater contamination?

Yes.

72 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:16:40pm

re: #70 Ojoe

We will almost all be anti-nuke activists by the time this is over.

Good night again.

Not me, brother.

73 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:05pm

re: #71 austin_blue

Worst that can happen with a 1972 GE reactor? The fuel melts, breaches the containment vessel and turns into a glowing gopher that contaminates groundwater for miles around. It will probably not explode like Chernobyl.

The establishment of a Chernobyl-like exclusion zone in the area of air and shallow groundwater contamination?

Yes.

Hydrogen explosions when the molten core exits the containment structure.

74 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:11pm

re: #28 mracb

It's past 3 mile island now and could get as bad as Chernobyl.

Times how many reactors? Up to four potential...though reactor number 2 is the worst. While the other two seemed to be cooling down. However with the situation near the plant getting as dangerous as it is, that can only mean bad news for reactors 1 and 3 and...???

75 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:13pm

re: #68 ggt

Well, I was productive for a few hours.

What were you?

Trying to figure out how to set my watch ahead 1.8 millionth of a second faster...Stupid Earth
*wink*

76 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:20pm

August 6, 1945

March 14, 2011

Has any other people had to deal with such catastrophic destruction?

I am still having extreme trouble fathoming all this. I am beginning to see how some minds would look for a supernatural explanation.

77 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:04pm

re: #20 Conservative Moonbat

The control rods don't stop all the heat because the daughter products of the fission still generate a lot of heat, for months.

They only stop the principal fission reaction.

78 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:06pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

indeed. These reactors have containment structures that will greatly reduce any radiation leakage. It may still be a disaster, but a Chernobyl is very unlikely.

I thought the breach of reactor 2 was serious because it was a breach in the containment structure.

79 Political Atheist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:25pm

re: #75 HoosierHoops

I thought we wait for leap millisecond.

80 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:27pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

The Navy does it OK.

81 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:35pm

re: #76 ggt

August 6, 1945

March 14, 2011

Has any other people had to deal with such catastrophic destruction?

I am still having extreme trouble fathoming all this. I am beginning to see how some minds would look for a supernatural explanation.

The human mind instinctively rejects randomness and looks for pattern and explanations.

82 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:48pm

re: #76 ggt

August 6, 1945

March 14, 2011

Has any other people had to deal with such catastrophic destruction?

I am still having extreme trouble fathoming all this. I am beginning to see how some minds would look for a supernatural explanation.

The difference is that the first was a result of Japan's actions, while the second was not.

83 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:19:18pm

re: #71 austin_blue

Still sounds pretty crappy...

84 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:19:35pm

re: #45 freetoken

Proportionally, what Japan is going through right now is roughly the same as Katrina had on the US. About the same share of displaced (for the foreseeable future) people, though as far as deaths are concerned this tsunami is more deadly than Katrina.

There is another similarity - impact on energy. In the case of Katrina (and her sister hurricanes), the oil importing and refinery industry was severely disrupted (remember the fuel sharing from other OECD countries?) In this case Japan's electrical generating capacity is compromised.

Agreed, but Japan has the land area of California, and a population of 130 million people.

Oofah!

85 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:19:56pm

So, portions of Japan have experienced in the last ? days:

Earthquake
Tsunami
Flood
Gas, power explosions
Nuclear Radiation


I serious in saying I would be suprised if next there were locusts.

86 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:20:19pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

The difference is that the first was a result of Japan's actions, while the second was not.

Ironically... just the opposite of how they look at things.

87 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:20:47pm

re: #85 ggt

You forgot the volcano.

88 Boyo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:20:48pm

Ive got folks on the west coast and my alexjones website visiting house mate says my folks should head for the hills and buy potassium iodide pills or drops..and gold...well not really gold......hes literally freaking out and its starting to rub off...I come here for sanity...any one know if I should be freaking out about my folks getting a nice dusting of radioactive dust yet? or is this all alexjones nuttery? :(

89 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:20:57pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

The difference is that the first was a result of Japan's actions, while the second was not.

Yes, but to the individuals experiencing the effects it makes no difference. I am really feeling for the people of Japan right now.

Sending positive vibes of compassion is all I think I can do.

90 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:21:25pm

re: #76 ggt

August 6, 1945

March 14, 2011

Has any other people had to deal with such catastrophic destruction?

I am still having extreme trouble fathoming all this. I am beginning to see how some minds would look for a supernatural explanation.

Well their country is positioned on one of the worst parts of the "ring of fire". They don't call it that for supernatural reasons. They're in a zone that should expect a hell of a lot of intense geological activity.

91 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:21:36pm

re: #87 freetoken

You forgot the volcano.

OMG, I don't think I knew about that--are you serious?

92 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:21:43pm

re: #86 freetoken

Ironically... just the opposite of how they look at things.

Well, they're wrong about that. Earthquakes are nobody's fault, but if Japan had not gone to war with the US, they would not have been A-Bombed.

93 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:22:23pm

re: #88 Boyo

We are 5,000 miles away across the Pacific, even on the West Coast, & what does get here will be very very very diluted.

94 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:22:29pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Ditto here. This situation was started by something completely out of the ordinary. Also, Nuclear Energy provides much more energy then renewables right now, along with the fact that these reactors were 40 years old, from a design from at least a generation ago. Ones today are much safer in design, and the 4th generation reactors will be safer still.

This doesn't even touch on the issues Japan has with regulation or openness of information.

95 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:22:45pm

re: #85 ggt

So, portions of Japan have experienced in the last ? days:

Earthquake
Tsunami
Flood
Gas, power explosions
Nuclear Radiation

I serious in saying I would be suprised if next there were locusts.

Missed one...volcano
[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

96 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:22:51pm

re: #88 Boyo

Ive got folks on the west coast and my alexjones website visiting house mate says my folks should head for the hills and buy potassium iodide pills or drops..and gold...well not really gold...hes literally freaking out and its starting to rub off...I come here for sanity...any one know if I should be freaking out about my folks getting a nice dusting of radioactive dust yet? or is this all alexjones nuttery? :(

Note that I have not brought up those whom I said I would not bring up tonight.

97 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:22pm

It is very sad that this will end any talk of nuclear power in this country. Fluke natural events are not a good reason to quit the idea, IMHO.

98 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:36pm

re: #63 Ojoe

And why do you call the reactors Balrogs? That seems extremely strange to me.

99 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:44pm

re: #88 Boyo

Ive got folks on the west coast and my alexjones website visiting house mate says my folks should head for the hills and buy potassium iodide pills or drops..and gold...well not really gold...hes literally freaking out and its starting to rub off...I come here for sanity...any one know if I should be freaking out about my folks getting a nice dusting of radioactive dust yet? or is this all alexjones nuttery? :(

I haven't seen anything authoritative on this, but it seems unlikely that harmful levels of radiation could persist for that distance.

100 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:46pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

Note that I have not brought up those whom I said I would not bring up tonight.

Umm... you just did.

101 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:19pm

re: #98 ProLifeLiberal

And why do you call the reactors Balrogs? That seems extremely strange to me.

He thinks the atomic nucleus is the devil or something like that. Don't worry about it.

102 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:39pm

re: #98 ProLifeLiberal

And why do you call the reactors Balrogs? That seems extremely strange to me.

I think it fits the Volcano more than a reactor . . . .

103 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:49pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

indeed. These reactors have containment structures that will greatly reduce any radiation leakage. It may still be a disaster, but a Chernobyl is very unlikely.

Please understand. I am not saying that any of the containment vessels can't be breached. They surely can, and the results will be dire, but it won't be the kind of explosive failure that occurred at Chernobyl.

Different. Know the difference. Do a little study. Don't be an idjit.

104 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:50pm

re: #97 ggt

It is very sad that this will end any talk of nuclear power in this country. Fluke natural events are not a good reason to quit the idea, IMHO.

Agreed. Despite well publicized 'disasters', nuclear power has been relatively safe.

105 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:57pm

re: #98 ProLifeLiberal

That is from Lord of the Rings.

The Balrog is the biggest monster.

Only Gandalf could stop it.

106 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:26:31pm

re: #105 Ojoe

That is from Lord of the Rings.

The Balrog is the biggest monster.

Only Gandalf could stop it.

You Shall Not Pass!

107 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:26:58pm

re: #99 garhighway

I don't think we will be affected. Chernobyl didn't have that sort of range with radiation.

Image: 400px-Radioactive_fallout_caesium137_after_Chernobyl.jpg

108 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:27:07pm

re: #104 BryanS

Agreed. Despite well publicized 'disasters', nuclear power has been relatively safe.

I think the horrible effects of radiation play a large role in our nuclear fears.

109 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:29:06pm

re: #103 austin_blue

Please understand. I am not saying that any of the containment vessels can't be breached. They surely can, and the results will be dire, but it won't be the kind of explosive failure that occurred at Chernobyl.

Different. Know the difference. Do a little study. Don't be an idjit.

We've never seen a real, live meltdown. Looks like we probably will soon.

110 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:29:32pm

re: #108 JasonA

I think the horrible effects of radiation play a large role in our nuclear fears.

Um, what else would play a role in our nuclear fears?

Horrible effects of radiation are pretty much it.

111 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:29:42pm

re: #109 garhighway

We've never seen a real, live meltdown. Looks like we probably will soon.

Sure we have, though it wasn't a complete one. Three Mile Island.

112 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:29:52pm

re: #109 garhighway

We've never seen a real, live meltdown. Looks like we probably will soon.

What was Chernobyl?

113 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:30:34pm

re: #76 ggt

August 6, 1945

March 14, 2011

Has any other people had to deal with such catastrophic destruction?

I am still having extreme trouble fathoming all this. I am beginning to see how some minds would look for a supernatural explanation.

Nah. Earth Science. You want a supernatural explanation? Explain on Pi day.

//

114 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:30:47pm

re: #110 EmmmieG

Um, what else would play a role in our nuclear fears?

Horrible effects of radiation are pretty much it.


Just saying that it leads to a more gruesome and painful death than most other things.

115 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:30:59pm

re: #112 EmmmieG

What was Chernobyl?

Soviet institutional incompetence at its finest.

116 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:31:00pm

re: #111 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sure we have, though it wasn't a complete one. Three Mile Island.

I wasn't clear. I meant one where the molten core exited the bottom of the containment vessel.

Sorry.

117 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:31:06pm

re: #108 JasonA

I think the horrible effects of radiation play a large role in our nuclear fears.

It seems so 'other' to people. I think a cuter less scary way to think of radiation is the "banana equivalent dose"

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Radioactive iodine levels in Milk in the three mile island area after that disaster had the equivalent radiation of 1/75th of a banana.

118 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:31:18pm

re: #114 JasonA

Just saying that it leads to a more gruesome and painful death than most other things.

So do bullets.

119 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:31:42pm

re: #116 garhighway

I wasn't clear. I meant one where the molten core exited the bottom of the containment vessel.

Sorry.

Ah, true enough.

120 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:32:04pm

re: #112 EmmmieG

What was Chernobyl?

An explosion of an entirely different kind of reactor with no containment structure.

121 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:32:19pm

re: #114 JasonA

Just saying that it leads to a more gruesome and painful death than most other things.

Oh yes, but my gruesome and painful death fears are actually topped by serial killers.

122 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:33:37pm

re: #120 garhighway

An explosion of an entirely different kind of reactor with no containment structure.

Okay.

123 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:33:46pm

I think my dog is feeling my concern about what's going on with me and in Japan. Been watching the news and reading about it all. He was lying beside the couch on the floor and not his usual spot. Then he decided to stand up and nuzzle and he decided that this wasn't enough and he needed to get into my lap. I appreciated the sentiment and all but he is a 90 POUND SHEPHERD.

Comedy ensued...

124 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:33:53pm

do we have any idea how this will affect marine life in the area?

Just wondering if the food chain will be affected?

125 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:34:04pm

re: #121 EmmmieG

Oh yes, but my gruesome and painful death fears are actually topped by serial killers.

I'd also submit that, for most people, the word "nuclear" can't help but bring up mushroom clouds, which only makes it more terrifying.

126 garhighway  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:34:12pm

Hitting the rack, and hoping that this looks better in the morning.

127 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:35:03pm

re: #123 Jadespring

I think my dog is feeling my concern about what's going on with me and in Japan. Been watching the news and reading about it all. He was lying beside the couch on the floor and not his usual spot. Then he decided to stand up and nuzzle and he decided that this wasn't enough and he needed to get into my lap. I appreciated the sentiment and all but he is a 90 POUND SHEPHERD.

Comedy ensued...

you get my email?

128 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:35:39pm

re: #124 ggt

do we have any idea how this will affect marine life in the area?

Just wondering if the food chain will be affected?

I think that Pacific Ocean fisheries are going to be enormously impacted. Not sure how.

129 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:36:00pm

re: #125 JasonA

I'd also submit that, for most people, the word "nuclear" can't help but bring up mushroom clouds, which only makes it more terrifying.

The Atomic Museum in ABQ should be replicated like the Ripley's Believe or Not Museum is in touristy areas. It was really interesting and educating.

130 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:36:38pm

re: #127 ggt

you get my email?

Yes. Thanks it was great. I haven't replied yet but plan to tomorrow morning. Too beat to think that much right now.

131 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:37:14pm

re: #130 Jadespring

Yes. Thanks it was great. I haven't replied yet but plan to tomorrow morning. Too beat to think that much right now.

Take care of you!

132 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:37:40pm

bbiab

133 Jadespring  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:38:00pm

re: #131 ggt

Take care of you!

Will do! :)

134 Kragar  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:39:06pm

Sense of helplessness has settled over Japan


In glittery Ginza, thumping heart of a hyper-voltage nation, the lights have dimmed.

Out of respect for a mounting toll of dead, injured and homeless compatriots, even iconic Tokyo Tower has dialed down its luminous glow while rolling blackouts are imposed on country reeling from multiple cascading catastrophes.

This is the still valiantly twinkling façade of Japan, where sophisticated modernity is rapidly losing ground to the primitive forces of nature unleashed. A city prideful of its epicentre status as technological genius is suddenly dumbfounded —psychologically incapacitated — by epic-scale disasters radiating from 240 kilometres away.

At least two tremors were felt in the capital Monday, a nauseating sway sensed in the gut.

The juxtaposition of tableaux is just as disorienting: I can buy a designer dress at the Chanel flagship store but not a bottle of water at the convenience store around the corner. Shop windows are crammed with electronic wonders but grocery shelves have been depleted of foodstuff. Luxury sedans rotate slowly on demo platforms yet there’s precious little gasoline left to pump into any car on the road. Rental agencies will no longer lease to journalists, worried their vehicles might be driven to the disaster zone.

Those famous bullet trains that boasted of making the trip from far-flung Narita airport to downtown Tokyo in 32 minutes are now staggering along at a five-hour pace, the country’s vast transportation network still in chaos four days after the twin calamities of earthquake and tsunami devastated the northeast quadrant of Honshu island. Many regional trains have been suspended to reduce power use.

Japanese are an obedient, patient people, not given to hysteria and deeply trusting in their government, even in times of crisis. There is increasing suspicion, however, over the information drought from officials and statements proven dreadfully wrong almost simultaneous with their delivery.

135 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:39:25pm

The Al-Jazeera Live Blog on Libya is making frustrated and giving me a headache. Russia's government is a bunch of scumbags, it's like they like the idea of mass killings. Sorry about being off-topic, but I need to vent a bit.

136 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:43:27pm

re: #125 JasonA

I'd also submit that, for most people, the word "nuclear" can't help but bring up mushroom clouds, which only makes it more terrifying.


I should probably stop playing around. I think you meant to say that the effects of nuclear radiation on living beings and the environment are large in our fears. In the file marked "Nuclear" they are probably the only entry. Radioactive zombies aren't really there.

Personally, I have a lot of files in my fear cabinet. Lara Croft I am not.

137 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:43:35pm

re: #64 garhighway

Remember, there are two plants with issues. I think the bulletin about the one in "cold shutdown" status is the other one.

As of a few hours ago, the status of those units (4,5,6) was listed simply as "cold shutdown", but earlier, the status reports had also indicated that they were without power. Page 3: [Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

138 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:43:45pm

re: #135 ProLifeLiberal

The Al-Jazeera Live Blog on Libya is making frustrated and giving me a headache. Russia's government is a bunch of scumbags, it's like they like the idea of mass killings. Sorry about being off-topic, but I need to vent a bit.

That actually brings up a point I was considered today, which is that Obama has gotta be stressed totally the fuck out. Between Japan, Libya, Egypt, Wisconsin, fighting the Congressional GOP, various other disasters (Charlie Sheen), the man's truly looking at a full plate. This is the kinda thing that can make or break a presidency.

139 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:44:01pm

After taking in recent events and watching a 1.5 hr documentary on Chernobyl yesterday, I'm beginning to think nuclear is not our way out of carbon energy.

140 Lidane  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:46:46pm

I've been so busy lately that I haven't had the chance to read up on nuclear power and how it works to understand this crisis without falling into a panic. I just hope that this catastrophe can be resolved before it gets any worse.

141 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:46:51pm

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, Obama probably hasn't had a good night's sleep in over a month.

142 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:47:05pm

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That actually brings up a point I was considered today, which is that Obama has gotta be stressed totally the fuck out. Between Japan, Libya, Egypt, Wisconsin, fighting the Congressional GOP, various other disasters (Charlie Sheen), the man's truly looking at a full plate. This is the kinda thing that can make or break a presidency.

You think Obama's concerned about a Tiger Blood epidemic?

143 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:47:36pm

re: #139 BigPapa

After taking in recent events and watching a 1.5 hr documentary on Chernobyl yesterday, I'm beginning to think nuclear is not our way out of carbon energy.

It is, so long as we don't build plants to 40-60 yr old standards. All the nuclear disasters that have happened to date have been with reactors that were at or exceeded their life expectancy, utilizing construction and operation methods that were obsolete decades ago. TMI and Chernobyl were both due to human error combined with design flaws, while what's happening now is due to Act of God combined with inadequate emergency measures.

144 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:48:04pm

re: #128 EmmmieG

I think that Pacific Ocean fisheries are going to be enormously impacted. Not sure how.

In Post-Fallout Pacific, King Crab eat you!

145 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:49:32pm

re: #143 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It is, so long as we don't build plants to 40-60 yr old standards. All the nuclear disasters that have happened to date have been with reactors that were at or exceeded their life expectancy, utilizing construction and operation methods that were obsolete decades ago. TMI and Chernobyl were both due to human error combined with design flaws, while what's happening now is due to Act of God combined with inadequate emergency measures.

No offense, but these posts are starting to read like "nuclear is perfectly safe, except when it isn't."

146 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:49:46pm

re: #139 BigPapa

After taking in recent events and watching a 1.5 hr documentary on Chernobyl yesterday, I'm beginning to think nuclear is not our way out of carbon energy.

Bullshit. I'm a life member of the Sierra Club, and the new generation of reactors are built to shut down and go cold without needing any additional coolant.

Research before posting. It's important.

147 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:50:19pm

re: #139 BigPapa

After taking in recent events and watching a 1.5 hr documentary on Chernobyl yesterday, I'm beginning to think nuclear is not our way out of carbon energy.

Plants are built with much more safety in mind than Chernobyl. I don't know if any plants are still in use of a similar design, but no modern plant would ever use such a dangerous design. As big of a deal as this nuke power plant emergency is, I don't think it is prudent to overreact.

148 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:51:06pm

re: #144 oaktree

In Post-Fallout Pacific, King Crab eat you!

Actually, either the Japanese fisheries are ruined for decades, in which case our fisheries simultaneously are more valuable and will have to be protected from over fishing, or both our fisheries and their are ruined for decades, in which case: Beef. It's what's for dinner.

149 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:51:52pm

re: #146 austin_blue

Bullshit. I'm a life member of the Sierra Club, and the new generation of reactors are built to shut down and go cold without needing any additional coolant.

Research before posting. It's important.

I'm telling what I think and why, you tell me bullshit and to research before posting. I call bullshit on your shitty attitude.

150 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:51:52pm

re: #146 austin_blue

Bullshit. I'm a life member of the Sierra Club, and the new generation of reactors are built to shut down and go cold without needing any additional coolant.

Research before posting. It's important.

Additional coolant, or additional and external power?

151 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:52:29pm

re: #146 austin_blue

Bullshit. I'm a life member of the Sierra Club, and the new generation of reactors are built to shut down and go cold without needing any additional coolant.

Research before posting. It's important.

That's an important public service announcement. Everyone has a feeling but science and facts just seems to go out the window in a panic.

152 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:53:01pm

re: #145 McSpiff

No offense, but these posts are starting to read like "nuclear is perfectly safe, except when it isn't."

That's the truth of it. New designs make reactors much safer. Even at the 40yrs or so age of these reactors, they are much safer than Chernobyl style reactors. We would have already had 3 Chernobyl style explosions by now if not for the containment structures preventing the reactors from blowing their tops. More modern designs are even safer.

153 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:53:49pm

Part of me wants to call one of the Russian Consulates in the US and yell at them for an hour. It'll make me feel better, and it's about all I can do really. Possibly call a Congressman, though not my own (El Paso County, Colorado).

154 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:53:51pm

The workers have left the plant

155 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:54:17pm

re: #147 BryanS

As big of a deal as this nuke power plant emergency is, I don't think it is prudent to overreact.

I'm not overreacting, my prudence is increasing just like the rems around northern Japan.

156 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:55:34pm

re: #152 BryanS

That's the truth of it. New designs make reactors much safer. Even at the 40yrs or so age of these reactors, they are much safer than Chernobyl style reactors. We would have already had 3 Chernobyl style explosions by now if not for the containment structures preventing the reactors from blowing their tops. More modern designs are even safer.

Do more modern BWR have additional passive fail-safes not present in these reactors?

157 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:55:37pm

re: #153 ProLifeLiberal

Part of me wants to call one of the Russian Consulates in the US and yell at them for an hour. It'll make me feel better, and it's about all I can do really. Possibly call a Congressman, though not my own (El Paso County, Colorado).

Well, the Russian government does suck really hard. The most fatuous statement ever was the claim that Bush looked into Putin's soul.

158 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:56:20pm

re: #157 BryanS

Well, the Russian government does suck really hard. The most fatuous statement ever was the claim that Bush looked into Putin's soul.

KGB officers have souls?

159 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:56:52pm

re: #155 BigPapa

I'm not overreacting, my prudence is increasing just like the rems around northern Japan.

Panic is only prudent if you are immediately in danger. My guess is you aren't currently commenting from northern Japan.

160 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:57:37pm

re: #149 BigPapa

I'm telling what I think and why, you tell me bullshit and to research before posting. I call bullshit on your shitty attitude.

Sorry. I'll call bullshit. When you project fear based on a reactor based on 1965 technology built in 1972 and project it to the present day, you deserve a smackdown.

Really, dude, don't be a moron.

You will notice that I gave you no downdings for your stupidity.

161 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:58:06pm

The workers are being evacuted from the nuclear plant. Reported by Talkingpoints..

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

162 sagehen  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:58:08pm

re: #159 recusancy

Panic is only prudent if you are immediately in danger. My guess is you aren't currently commenting from northern Japan.

No... panic is only prudent if you're far enough away from the actual danger that your quivery uselessness doesn't get in the way of people trying to do something about the problem.

163 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:58:19pm

re: #145 McSpiff

No offense, but these posts are starting to read like "nuclear is perfectly safe, except when it isn't."

In all fairness, nothing is "perfectly safe." Every time you step foot in a commercial jetliner, you play the odds that something, from either bad design to bad maintenance to bad piloting, will kill you. And many times, it's not the visible dangers that get us, it's the little things that nobody thinks of until a plane drops out of the sky.

Nuclear power is by no means "perfectly safe," but with proper design and training, it's certainly on the same level as fossil fuels.

164 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:58:44pm

re: #160 austin_blue

No, but I'll downding you for being an asshole. Explain the difference in reactor designs, don't be a preachy asshole.

165 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:59:26pm

re: #157 BryanS

Would I get into trouble for doing such an action? The way they are acting in the UN in regards to Libya is making me livid.

166 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:59:37pm

re: #162 sagehen

No... panic is only prudent if you're far enough away from the actual danger that your quivery uselessness doesn't get in the way of people trying to do something about the problem.

No, panic has an evolutionary usefulness. Fight or flight.

167 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:59:49pm

re: #150 McSpiff

Additional coolant, or additional and external power?

Completely different design. Go Wiki.

168 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:00:09pm

re: #161 The Yankee

The workers are being evacuted from the nuclear plant. Reported by Talkingpoints..

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

They did that a few hours ago. When the radiation spiked after a hydrogen explosion.

169 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:00:10pm

re: #156 McSpiff

Do more modern BWR have additional passive fail-safes not present in these reactors?

It's wikipedia, but it's a good start

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

170 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:00:13pm

re: #159 recusancy

Panic is only prudent if you are immediately in danger. My guess is you aren't currently commenting from northern Japan.

I'm neither in Northern Japan nor am I panicking. That's ridiculous.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:01:27pm

re: #165 ProLifeLiberal

Would I get into trouble for doing such an action? The way they are acting in the UN in regards to Libya is making me livid.

I don't think you can get in trouble for calling the Russian Consulate to register a complaint about their government's behavior. I would advise against yelling, or saying anything that could be interpreted as a threat.

172 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:01:58pm

re: #167 austin_blue

Completely different design. Go Wiki.

Believe me, you don't want to get into this pissing match. I've forgotten more about CANDU than most humans should know. Doesn't change the fact that you're being completely rude to someone who's been nothing but polite (BigPapa, not me)

173 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:02:35pm

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That actually brings up a point I was considered today, which is that Obama has gotta be stressed totally the fuck out. Between Japan, Libya, Egypt, Wisconsin, fighting the Congressional GOP, various other disasters (Charlie Sheen), the man's truly looking at a full plate. This is the kinda thing that can make or break a presidency.

I thought Obama was looking very think the last time I watched him. He's got to be chain smoking outside the Oval Office window.

174 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:02:50pm

re: #169 BryanS

It's wikipedia, but it's a good start

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Right, and I'm saying telling layman to go wiki is not helpful in the least.

175 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:03:01pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Wouldn't do the threat thing. Would probably accuse them of supporting Mass Murder.

176 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:03:13pm

4th reactor is on fire, not sure if I am posting old news just got in from the gym

177 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:03:22pm

re: #173 ggt

I thought Obama was looking very think the last time I watched him. He's got to be chain smoking outside the Oval Office window.

He quite this year.

178 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:03:28pm

re: #155 BigPapa

I'm not overreacting, my prudence is increasing just like the rems around northern Japan.

Meh...it is still fairly safe. Despite there being a huge friggen earth quake, there was plenty of time for people in the area to evacuate to avoid exposure.

179 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:03:30pm

re: #145 McSpiff

No offense, but these posts are starting to read like "nuclear is perfectly safe, except when it isn't."

that would apply to coal, hydrogen, wind and gasoline as well.

180 sagehen  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:04:35pm

re: #177 recusancy

He quite this year.

As if that matters. Do you know how many times I've quit smoking? And I'm not under anywhere near his stress levels.

181 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:04:48pm

re: #160 austin_blue

Sorry. I'll call bullshit. When you project fear based on a reactor based on 1965 technology built in 1972 and project it to the present day, you deserve a smackdown.

Really, dude, don't be a moron.

You will notice that I gave you no downdings for your stupidity.

You're doubling down on being an asshole. There was no bullshit: I'm questioning my position on nuclear now and I explained why. Instead of telling me about your membership in Sierra Club (like that has shit to do with it) you could just move right to reactor designs over the years and how new ones are safer, and why. In that we could continue the discussion and maybe I would reconsider.

Instead you be an asshole, and now doubledown. Fucking childish.

182 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:04:49pm

re: #175 ProLifeLiberal

Wouldn't do the threat thing. Would probably accuse them of supporting Mass Murder.

I think the First Amendment guarantees your right to call them and do that. Anyone? Anything special to know about calling consulates?

183 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:05:20pm

re: #151 recusancy

That's an important public service announcement. Everyone has a feeling but science and facts just seems to go out the window in a panic.

EXACTLY!

Like I posted earlier, this is very difficult to deal with. I can see how those who are inclined to do so would think aliens or such caused all this.

Knowing the facts is very important if we want to keep ourselves moving forward in our Brave New World.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:05:47pm

re: #180 sagehen

As if that matters. Do you know how many times I've quit smoking? And I'm not under anywhere near his stress levels.

The presidency is one of those jobs where the stress you're under on a daily basis is probably worse for you than smoking could be.

Combat postings are another one.

185 latitude51  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:05:59pm

re: #110 EmmmieG
Well, there's the aesthetic factor. They're scary ugly to look at.

186 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:06:06pm

re: #177 recusancy

He quite this year.

If it would reduce his stress, he can cheat a little bit.

187 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:07:22pm

re: #186 moderatelyradicalliberal

If it would reduce his stress, he can cheat a little bit.

It would reduce his stress until Michelle found out...

188 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:07:24pm

re: #164 McSpiff

No, but I'll downding you for being an asshole. Explain the difference in reactor designs, don't be a preachy asshole.

Oh, really, go fuck yourself, you lazy asshole.

If you can't take the time to educate yourself and then expect me to educate you, you need to exclude yourself from this board, which expects some level of effort.

(I apologize for this post in advance. McSpiff just got my hair up because he went all dumbfuck.)

189 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:07:29pm

re: #146 austin_blue

Bullshit. I'm a life member of the Sierra Club, and the new generation of reactors are built to shut down and go cold without needing any additional coolant.

Research before posting. It's important.

And this incident is very likely to create studies on how to make these plants safer. That's what happens when these disasters occur. New information is taken into account in planning for the future.


re: #179 ggt

that would apply to coal, hydrogen, wind and gasoline as well.

Exactly. If it's possible to create the energy the world needs without any risk whatsoever, we're simply not there yet. Maybe it'll happen one day - but we're not there yet.

190 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:07:46pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think you can get in trouble for calling the Russian Consulate to register a complaint about their government's behavior. I would advise against yelling, or saying anything that could be interpreted as a threat.

Get in trouble from whom? This is the US, not Mussolini's Italy.

191 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:05pm

re: #183 ggt

EXACTLY!

Like I posted earlier, this is very difficult to deal with. I can see how those who are inclined to do so would think aliens or such caused all this.

Knowing the facts is very important if we want to keep ourselves moving forward in our Brave New World.

Happens after every tragedy. 9/11 was the most ridiculous. People lose their shit because they empathize too much or they want to feel like they are part of it or whatever.

192 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:06pm

re: #185 latitude51

Well, there's the aesthetic factor. They're scary ugly to look at.

Victims or nuclear plants?

193 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:30pm

re: #179 ggt

that would apply to coal, hydrogen, wind and gasoline as well.

Exactly. And I'm sure if a coal, hydrogen, wind or gasoline plant was causing mass evacuations and potential immediate health impacts like the nuclear plants in Japan are, we'd be discussing that too.

194 makeitstop  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:34pm

NHK feed is now live again. Reporting hydrogen explosions in reactors #1 and #3, fire in #4.

195 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:09:06pm

re: #180 sagehen

As if that matters. Do you know how many times I've quit smoking? And I'm not under anywhere near his stress levels.

I know a couple of men around the president's age who had heart attacks after they quit smoking because they didn't have another outlet for their stress. I'm trying to quit smoking and I bought some really cheap plates at the dollar store to break when I need to let off steam.

196 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:09:07pm

re: #177 recusancy

He quite this year.

Like most smokers (and I am speaking from experience), he has quit many times. I would seriously not blame him if he kept smoking until he was out of office. I would rather my POTUS not be going thru substance withdrawal during his watch.

197 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:09:52pm

re: #188 austin_blue

Oh, really, go fuck yourself, you lazy asshole.

If you can't take the time to educate yourself and then expect me to educate you, you need to exclude yourself from this board, which expects some level of effort.

(I apologize for this post in advance. McSpiff just got my hair up because he went all dumbfuck.)

I'm calling you out. You aren't posting specifics because you don't have a damn clue. Put your money where your mouth is and post something more specific than "Wikipedia"

198 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:10:11pm

re: #187 JasonA

It would reduce his stress until Michelle found out...

LOL! And her mother!

199 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:10:46pm

re: #193 McSpiff

Exactly. And I'm sure if a coal, hydrogen, wind or gasoline plant was causing mass evacuations and potential immediate health impacts like the nuclear plants in Japan are, we'd be discussing that too.

We did.
See: BP

200 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:11:05pm

re: #193 McSpiff

Exactly. And I'm sure if a coal, hydrogen, wind or gasoline plant was causing mass evacuations and potential immediate health impacts like the nuclear plants in Japan are, we'd be discussing that too.

Somehow we don't talk about quitting coal when there is a mine disaster. . .. I don't get that. I guess a few lives lost is different than thousands of lives lost.

201 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:11:33pm

re: #181 BigPapa

You're doubling down on being an asshole. There was no bullshit: I'm questioning my position on nuclear now and I explained why. Instead of telling me about your membership in Sierra Club (like that has shit to do with it) you could just move right to reactor designs over the years and how new ones are safer, and why. In that we could continue the discussion and maybe I would reconsider.

Instead you be an asshole, and now doubledown. Fucking childish.

What is it about intrinsically safe in the New Gen reactors that you don't understand? Talking about childish?

Really?

Really?!?!?!?

202 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:11:46pm

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room."

203 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:11:58pm

re: #199 reine.de.tout

We did.
See: BP

Very true. And I think that's a good thing.

204 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:12:52pm

re: #200 ggt

Somehow we don't talk about quitting coal when there is a mine disaster. . .. I don't get that. I guess a few lives lost is different than thousands of lives lost.

erm - you obviously missed some of the comments after the BP disaster.

205 latitude51  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:12:58pm

re: #192 EmmmieG

I was talking about the plants.

206 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:13:10pm

re: #187 JasonA

I would be scared of making Michelle angry. She seems to be very tough.

I now have the contact information the Russian Embassy and Consulates in the US if I decide to register a complaint. Any recommendations for a Congressman's office to call. Any one here have somebody they like?

207 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:13:12pm

re: #200 ggt

Somehow we don't talk about quitting coal when there is a mine disaster. . .. I don't get that. I guess a few lives lost is different than thousands of lives lost.

Exactly. I was just thinking that. What if a earthquake hits where there's a bunch of oil refineries and they all catch on fire? Nobody starts saying gasoline is a dangerous technology. It effects roughly the same radius. Only the refinery fires happen a hell of a lot more than reactor meltdowns.

208 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:13:49pm

re: #205 latitude51

I was talking about the plants.

Meh. I live next to a lot of Intel's fabs. I'm used to ugly.

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:24pm

re: #200 ggt

Somehow we don't talk about quitting coal when there is a mine disaster. . .. I don't get that. I guess a few lives lost is different than thousands of lives lost.

Also, a few lives lost among people who knew they were working in a profession with risks, as opposed to thousands of people who were just using the electricity getting sick.

210 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:30pm

re: #207 recusancy

Exactly. I was just thinking that. What if a earthquake hits where there's a bunch of oil refineries and they all catch on fire? Nobody starts saying gasoline is a dangerous technology. It effects roughly the same radius. Only the refinery fires happen a hell of a lot more than reactor meltdowns.

But many many folks say drilling for oil is dangerous and needs to be stopped now!
And with no oil, there is no gasoline.

211 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:34pm

re: #207 recusancy

Exactly. I was just thinking that. What if a earthquake hits where there's a bunch of oil refineries and they all catch on fire? Nobody starts saying gasoline is a dangerous technology. It effects roughly the same radius. Only the refinery fires happen a hell of a lot more than reactor meltdowns.

Nuclear scares everyone because it is soooo scientific and therefore scary.

The price of gas, however, is something that can be politic-ed about . . .

212 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:47pm

re: #200 ggt

Somehow we don't talk about quitting coal when there is a mine disaster. . .. I don't get that. I guess a few lives lost is different than thousands of lives lost.

Seems like coal mining disasters are treated as much more localized events. I know the local occupational health and safety act is largely the result of a coal mining disaster. But you're right, coal is very much viewed differently.

213 The Yankee  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:52pm

re: #168 freetoken

They did that a few hours ago. When the radiation spiked after a hydrogen explosion.

If they pulled the workers out, doesn't that mean they are at the point of cementing the reactors?

214 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:55pm

I'm not going to come down on the side of "no new reactors." I think what's really getting to people is that we were told that these reactors were safe too, no? Okay, so newer reactors wouldn't have a problem in this situation. I can believe that. Is there any scenario where they would pose a danger?

215 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:57pm

re: #207 recusancy

Exactly. I was just thinking that. What if a earthquake hits where there's a bunch of oil refineries and they all catch on fire? Nobody starts saying gasoline is a dangerous technology. It effects roughly the same radius. Only the refinery fires happen a hell of a lot more than reactor meltdowns.

I think part of it has to do with the fact that if a refinery burns down, we can clean up the mess and rebuild. A nuke reactor melts down...well, let's just say that things will be awful quiet for a few decades.

216 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:15:46pm

re: #210 reine.de.tout

But many many folks say drilling for oil is dangerous and needs to be stopped now!
And with no oil, there is no gasoline.

Again, see some of the BP discussions.
I'm gonna shut up now.

217 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:16:09pm

re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think part of it has to do with the fact that if a refinery burns down, we can clean up the mess and rebuild. A nuke reactor melts down...well, let's just say that things will be awful quiet for a few decades.

I hear Pripyat is a nice, quiet place to retire...

218 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:16:21pm

re: #214 JasonA

I'm not going to come down on the side of "no new reactors." I think what's really getting to people is that we were told that these reactors were safe too, no? Okay, so newer reactors wouldn't have a problem in this situation. I can believe that. Is there any scenario where they would pose a danger?

Everything poses a danger. If we want to maintain the peace and prosperity that a universal power source provides, we will have risk. The bigger the pay-off the bigger the risk. It's not just with money.

219 latitude51  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:16:33pm

re: #208 EmmmieG

Meh. I live next to a lot of Intel's fabs. I'm used to ugly.

Try Alberta's oil sands operations.

220 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:02pm

re: #210 reine.de.tout

But many many folks say drilling for oil is dangerous and needs to be stopped now!
And with no oil, there is no gasoline.

We don't say drilling for oil is dangerous, though it is an environmental issue. It's the burning of tons and tons of oil every day for centuries that's dangerous.

221 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:32pm

re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, a few lives lost among people who knew they were working in a profession with risks, as opposed to thousands of people who were just using the electricity getting sick.

Nuclear power had also been damaged by a lack of private sector interest in comparison to oil and coal. After the past disasters we had a lot of the money from the private sector dried up because they didn't want the possible bad press or the liability. Also, as someone mentioned earlier, mushroom clouds and all.

222 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:37pm

re: #217 JasonA

And now you got me thinking about Call of Duty 4:Modern Warfare. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.

223 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:59pm

re: #219 latitude51

Try Alberta's oil sands operations.

I'm sure they are ugly. However, I can't think of any power plants that are attractive.

Well, the windmills in Holland, I suppose.

With that thought, I'm going to bed.

224 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:18:04pm

re: #214 JasonA

I'm not going to come down on the side of "no new reactors." I think what's really getting to people is that we were told that these reactors were safe too, no? Okay, so newer reactors wouldn't have a problem in this situation. I can believe that. Is there any scenario where they would pose a danger?

Provided that they weren't whacked with a one-two punch from an earthquake reading 8+ on the Richter and a tsunami, they were safe. I don't think the guys designing this particular reactor planned for God deciding to frak Japan sideways twice in the same day.

225 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:18:31pm

re: #214 JasonA

I'm not going to come down on the side of "no new reactors." I think what's really getting to people is that we were told that these reactors were safe too, no? Okay, so newer reactors wouldn't have a problem in this situation. I can believe that. Is there any scenario where they would pose a danger?

Exactly the right question to ask. Saying we've learned all the lessons from this disaster while the cores are still in melt down seems... premature . There's a hell of a lot more to a nuclear plant than just the reactor as well. Training, planning, etc.

226 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:18:31pm

re: #207 recusancy

Exactly. I was just thinking that. What if a earthquake hits where there's a bunch of oil refineries and they all catch on fire? Nobody starts saying gasoline is a dangerous technology.

There's hundreds of square miles encompassing Chernobyl that won't be livable for 800 years. This point of reasoning is fallacy.

227 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:18:47pm

re: #217 JasonA

I hear Pripyat is a nice, quiet place to retire...

Provided you avoid the anomalies...and the mutants...and the brainwashed soldiers...

//

228 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:19:13pm

re: #224 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Provided that they weren't whacked with a one-two punch from an earthquake reading 8+ on the Richter and a tsunami, they were safe. I don't think the guys designing this particular reactor planned for God deciding to frak Japan sideways twice in the same day.

Ohhh... So you're saying the problem is that the Japanese don't believe in God!

/

229 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:19:22pm

Perhaps, just perhaps if we could produce more high school graduates with the science background to understand what goes into creating nuclear power, we wouldn't be have to argue about it.

My Dear Ole' Dad, The Engineer, explained a whole bunch about nuclear power to me, very little of it I understood. What I did understand that it could be very safe and very efficient.

He actually blamed the free-market for interfering with science and safety. Which was rather strange for him.

230 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:19:51pm

re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And the feral dogs along with the mercenaries selling spent fuel rods.

231 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:19:53pm

re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Provided you avoid the anomalies...and the mutants...and the brainwashed soldiers...

//

STALKER reference? (never played it)

232 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:20:23pm

re: #214 JasonA

I'm not going to come down on the side of "no new reactors." I think what's really getting to people is that we were told that these reactors were safe too, no? Okay, so newer reactors wouldn't have a problem in this situation. I can believe that. Is there any scenario where they would pose a danger?

I know it's still just wiki, but they have a good summary of passive nuclear safety techniques--meaning self shutting down mechanisms. For some others questioning how this is achieved:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

An excerpt:

Third generation designs improve on early designs by incorporating passive or inherent safety features [3] which require no active controls or (human) operational intervention to avoid accidents in the event of malfunction, and may rely on pressure differentials, gravity, natural convection, or the natural response of materials to high temperatures.

In some designs the core of a fast breeder reactor is immersed into a pool of liquid metal. If the reactor overheats, thermal expansion of the metallic fuel and cladding causes more neutrons to escape the core, and the nuclear chain reaction can no longer be sustained. The large mass of liquid metal also acts as a heatsink capable of absorbing the decay heat from the core, even if the normal cooling systems would fail.

The pebble bed reactor is an example of a reactor exhibiting an inherently safe process that is also capable of providing a passive safety component for all operational modes. As the temperature of the fuel rises, Doppler broadening increases the probability that neutrons are captured by U-238 atoms. This reduces the chance that the neutrons are captured by U-235 atoms and initiate fission, thus reducing the reactor's power output and placing an inherent upper limit on the temperature of the fuel. The geometry and design of the fuel pebbles provides an important passive safety component.

You kinda get the idea--a runaway temperature by design dampens the fission process and prevents overheating.

You still have the waste products/potential for terror attacks/etc to deal with.

233 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:20:24pm

re: #224 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Provided that they weren't whacked with a one-two punch from an earthquake reading 8+ on the Richter and a tsunami, they were safe. I don't think the guys designing this particular reactor planned for God deciding to frak Japan sideways twice in the same day.

I thought it was the Balrog that did it?

234 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:20:31pm

re: #201 austin_blue

What is it about intrinsically safe in the New Gen reactors that you don't understand? Talking about childish?

Really?

Really?!?!?!?

We'll never discuss it as long as you continue to act like this. Seeing as how it's your style, that means we probably won't talk that much. Too bad, it could have been an enlightening discussion. I'll figure it out myself.

235 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:20:43pm

re: #231 JasonA

STALKER reference? (never played it)

Yeah, my computer's a bit old to be playing it these days, so I've taken to watching LPs of it on Youtube.

236 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:21:08pm

re: #233 ggt

I thought it was the Balrog that did it?

No it was Godzilla and Mothra.

237 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:21:15pm

re: #235 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, my computer's a bit old to be playing it these days, so I've taken to watching LPs of it on Youtube.

Wow. You must really love that game.

238 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:21:34pm

re: #224 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Provided that they weren't whacked with a one-two punch from an earthquake reading 8+ on the Richter and a tsunami, they were safe. I don't think the guys designing this particular reactor planned for God deciding to frak Japan sideways twice in the same day.

No. We know that those conditions caused the current situation. To suggest that only those conditions could cause such an incident doesn't logically follow at all. We have extremely little evidence yet.

239 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:23:06pm

re: #220 recusancy

We don't say drilling for oil is dangerous, though it is an environmental issue. It's the burning of tons and tons of oil every day for centuries that's dangerous.

There were many who DID imply that drilling was too dangerous to continue.

I'm not pushing oil over nuclear here, we need BOTH, as far as I'm concerned.

But going on after a disastrous incident, whether it's coal, drilling, nuclear, what the heck ever, as if it's the end of the world as we know it and so it should be STOPPED NOW! - is an overreaction, IMO, whether it's drilling, coal, nuclear, whatever.

Not that YOU are doing that right now - I just think that as a group, humans have to understand that there will be danger in any production of the energy the world needs, and we have to deal with it and make technology corrections when things happen that show the need for corrections to be made.

240 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:23:21pm

re: #237 JasonA

Wow. You must really love that game.

Nah, I just find something entertaining and amusing about watching guys play games my computer would choke on while providing running commentary.

241 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:04pm

Okay, fine:

Data:

[Link: www.toshiba.co.jp...]

[Link: www.ap1000.westinghousenuclear.com...]

This are not your reactors built in 1972.

Idjits.

I'll take the hits, but you assholes are just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Get real. Get smart. Quit quoting crack from Three Mile Island. It's a different world and if we don't take coal fired power plants off the grid, and do it soon, we are well and truly screwed.

Wise up.

242 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:14pm

re: #238 McSpiff

No. We know that those conditions caused the current situation. To suggest that only those conditions could cause such an incident doesn't logically follow at all. We have extremely little evidence yet.

Could I conjecture that perhaps Nuclear Power plants should not be built within X miles of a known fault line?

Perhaps some areas just should not have them--the Pacific Rim.

They could still buy power from plants in other areas . . .

243 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:21pm
andersoncooper Anderson Cooper
Finally found enough fuel, now am trying to drive north away from possible nuclear problems

Would this be considered "retweating?"

244 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:22pm

re: #232 BryanS

Fast Breeder Reactors and Pebble Bed Reactors are both either in the Research or Prototype stages. Nothing to do with existing commerical reactors.

245 austin_blue  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:48pm

And good night.

Sweet dreams all.

246 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:02pm

re: #239 reine.de.tout

There were many who DID imply that drilling was too dangerous to continue.

I'm not pushing oil over nuclear here, we need BOTH, as far as I'm concerned.

But going on after a disastrous incident, whether it's coal, drilling, nuclear, what the heck ever, as if it's the end of the world as we know it and so it should be STOPPED NOW! - is an overreaction, IMO, whether it's drilling, coal, nuclear, whatever.

Not that YOU are doing that right now - I just think that as a group, humans have to understand that there will be danger in any production of the energy the world needs, and we have to deal with it and make technology corrections when things happen that show the need for corrections to be made.

We have to be willing to take risks and learn as we go.

247 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:07pm

re: #243 JasonA

Would this be considered "retweating?"

No.

248 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:30pm

re: #238 McSpiff

No. We know that those conditions caused the current situation. To suggest that only those conditions could cause such an incident doesn't logically follow at all. We have extremely little evidence yet.

We won't know exactly what series of events lead to the present situation, much less where it'll go from here, for months or even years to come. But considering that this reactor was simply days away from being shut down for the last time before it got whacked by two natural disasters, I'd say they had more than a small part in it all.

249 recusancy  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:44pm

re: #243 JasonA

Would this be considered "retweating?"

That's copy and pasting.

250 sagehen  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:59pm

re: #217 JasonA

I hear Pripyat is a nice, quiet place to retire...

It's probably even safe for people old enough their exposure is just going to be a few years....

251 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:01pm

re: #242 ggt

Could I conjecture that perhaps Nuclear Power plants should not be built within X miles of a known fault line?

Perhaps some areas just should not have them--the Pacific Rim.

They could still buy power from plants in other areas . . .

Japan doesn't have a lot of other good options, so not sure that is practical for them at least. They import 100% (or near that) of their energy.

252 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:12pm

re: #250 sagehen

It's probably even safe for people old enough their exposure is just going to be a few years...

I have to wonder, which I do alot, how such exposure would affect cancer cells. Live there long enough to kill the cancer, then get the hell out and seek radiation rehab. . . .

Sci-fi thinking again, sorry.

:)

253 sagehen  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:13pm

re: #223 EmmmieG

I'm sure they are ugly. However, I can't think of any power plants that are attractive.

Well, the windmills in Holland, I suppose.

With that thought, I'm going to bed.

The wind farms in central california are really pretty -- I always wanted "Highlander" to set a quickening at one of those.

254 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:57pm

re: #241 austin_blue

Keep insulting people, it makes for a real convincing argument. Prick.

255 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:58pm

re: #251 BryanS

Japan doesn't have a lot of other good options, so not sure that is practical for them at least. They import 100% (or near that) of their energy.

No wind, no sun?

There are very good minds in Japan, I think they'll perfect something we've already thought of.

256 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:58pm

re: #244 McSpiff

Fast Breeder Reactors and Pebble Bed Reactors are both either in the Research or Prototype stages. Nothing to do with existing commerical reactors.

Most of that has to do with the fact that work on nuclear reactor design in the US has been, for the most part, purely theoretical due to the lack of serious interest in going past that stage. There's no commercial interest in it, because the amount of red tape makes nuclear power uneconomical when compared to fossil fuels. Most of the other countries working on it have had differing levels of success, either due to economic or political constraints.

257 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:28:16pm

re: #249 recusancy

That's copy and pasting.

Okay. I was kind of referring to what Cooper was actually doing, but I see where miscommunication occurred now, and will strive to see it ne'er happen again.

258 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:29:04pm

re: #253 sagehen

The wind farms in central california are really pretty -- I always wanted "Highlander" to set a quickening at one of those.

Wind farms can be so surreal to drive thru. I think we did in South Dakota??? maybe.

It was very, very weird. A friend said she felt like it was like War of the Worlds. all those big white modern looking windmills.

259 sagehen  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:29:24pm

re: #228 JasonA

Ohhh... So you're saying the problem is that the Japanese don't believe in God!

/

I believe the Shinto religion places humanity as one small part of nature. And not the most important or most powerful part.

260 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:29:26pm

re: #254 McSpiff

Keep insulting people, it makes for a real convincing argument. Prick.

It makes it fun to watch, anyway.

261 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:30:48pm

re: #244 McSpiff

Fast Breeder Reactors and Pebble Bed Reactors are both either in the Research or Prototype stages. Nothing to do with existing commerical reactors.

The article went on...didn't want to quote the whole darn thing, but thought the first section was good to introduce the concept--and some cool concepts in development as you say.

From the same article, siting passive designs currently in use:

The General Electric Company ESBWR (Economic Simplified Boiling Water Reactor, a BWR) is a design reported to use passive safety components. In the event of coolant loss, no operator action is required for three days.[10]

The Westinghouse Electric Company AP-1000 ("AP" standing for "Advanced Passive") is a design reported to use passive safety components. In the event of an accident, no operator action is required for 72 hours.[11]

262 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:31:08pm

re: #250 sagehen

It's probably even safe for people old enough their exposure is just going to be a few years...

The level of ambient radiation in Pripyat has dropped significantly since the disaster itself. It's still not safe to live in the surrounding area, but visiting for a few hours is safe. They even have guided tours of the city itself.

263 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:31:47pm

re: #242 ggt

Could I conjecture that perhaps Nuclear Power plants should not be built within X miles of a known fault line?

Perhaps some areas just should not have them--the Pacific Rim.

They could still buy power from plants in other areas . . .

I don't think its reasonable for Japan to design coastal NPP with a largest quake or storm in mind. I'm not sure if that makes the plants infeasible or not with existing tech, but clearly the failure modes at this plant weren't adequate.

The other question of course, is if this plant really was totally subpar in every way, why was it still in operation.

264 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:32:02pm

Honestly, to me the idea of not finding and using a universal source of power NOW scares me more than the possible risks of such a power source.

Without power to do work, humans have to do the work. I can see any idea of personal freedom going out the window when someone stronger can get someone weaker to "clean their boots."

265 sagehen  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:33:08pm

re: #243 JasonA

Would this be considered "retweating?"

266 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:33:30pm

re: #255 ggt

No wind, no sun?

There are very good minds in Japan, I think they'll perfect something we've already thought of.

Wind or sun? We'll keep waiting for that to become a reality for base load replacement. They need something they can reliably dial up--wind and sun can only be a modest part of their energy needs.

267 Amory Blaine  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:33:43pm

re: #225 McSpiff

Exactly the right question to ask. Saying we've learned all the lessons from this disaster while the cores are still in melt down seems... premature . There's a hell of a lot more to a nuclear plant than just the reactor as well. Training, planning, etc.

I heard they were storing diesel fuel to feed the emergency cooling generators above ground.

268 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:34:13pm

re: #263 McSpiff

I don't think its reasonable for Japan to design coastal NPP with a largest quake or storm in mind. I'm not sure if that makes the plants infeasible or not with existing tech, but clearly the failure modes at this plant weren't adequate.

The other question of course, is if this plant really was totally subpar in every way, why was it still in operation.

yes, I wondered that too. Japan doesn't have to skimp on such things and I don't see them doing it.

I think long-term investigation findings on this will be very interesting--probably more so to the scientifically minded.

269 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:34:44pm

re: #267 Amory Blaine

I heard they were storing diesel fuel to feed the emergency cooling generators above ground.

Death by a thousand paper cuts sometimes.

270 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:34:51pm

re: #239 reine.de.tout

There were many who DID imply that drilling was too dangerous to continue.

I'm not pushing oil over nuclear here, we need BOTH, as far as I'm concerned.

But going on after a disastrous incident, whether it's coal, drilling, nuclear, what the heck ever, as if it's the end of the world as we know it and so it should be STOPPED NOW! - is an overreaction, IMO, whether it's drilling, coal, nuclear, whatever.

Not that YOU are doing that right now - I just think that as a group, humans have to understand that there will be danger in any production of the energy the world needs, and we have to deal with it and make technology corrections when things happen that show the need for corrections to be made.

With all do respect, isn't that the point? Worst case scenarios do happen, and when disaster strikes, it's really, really, disastrous. Almost beyond comprehension. It wouldn't be so bad if precautions based on all plausible outcomes are taken, but often they aren't. Japan is on of the most earthquake and tsunami ridden parts of the world and they either didn't make plans for the worst worst case scenario or they didn't work. Same thing with the Gulf oil spill. Part of the fear that people who are opposed to deep sea oil drilling and nuclear energy is that when disaster strikes, we almost always find out that the private companies gave assurances of safety that were false and the government wasn't terrible interested in enforcing laws or regulations that would ensure safety.

My practical side agrees with you to not let fear rule out energy options that are generally safe, but my cynical side doesn't trust the assurances of safety from private companies or the government.

271 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:35:17pm

re: #214 JasonA

I'm not going to come down on the side of "no new reactors." I think what's really getting to people is that we were told that these reactors were safe too, no? Okay, so newer reactors wouldn't have a problem in this situation. I can believe that. Is there any scenario where they would pose a danger?

That, certainly for me, is the concern, although I'm not shutting the door on nuclear either. I'm sure the new technology is super. But what happens when it's thirty years old, hasn't been perfectly maintained, some perfect storm comes along, terrorism or war comes along...we need to realize that if we're gonna have nuclear power, we're gonna have nuclear accidents, and we need to be prepared to think about that, and plan for it.

272 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:37:01pm

re: #256 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Most of that has to do with the fact that work on nuclear reactor design in the US has been, for the most part, purely theoretical due to the lack of serious interest in going past that stage. There's no commercial interest in it, because the amount of red tape makes nuclear power uneconomical when compared to fossil fuels. Most of the other countries working on it have had differing levels of success, either due to economic or political constraints.

Westinghouse is a US company...just building their new safer design in China.

More wiki
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

273 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:37:08pm

re: #266 BryanS

Wind or sun? We'll keep waiting for that to become a reality for base load replacement. They need something they can reliably dial up--wind and sun can only be a modest part of their energy needs.

I think there is a chance that someone (probably some 16 year old somewhere) will figure out a way to compress energy like we do data files. Just think, we could mail thumb-drive type devices with enough energy to power a mall for a week or more.

Hey, I know it's Sci-Fi thinking, but did anyone even 10 years ago really think there would be thumb-drives? or Twitter? or Kindle?

I know energy is a different ballgame entirely, but we are in a Brave New World and I have to believe it is possible.

274 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:38:02pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

That, certainly for me, is the concern, although I'm not shutting the door on nuclear either. I'm sure the new technology is super. But what happens when it's thirty years old, hasn't been perfectly maintained, some perfect storm comes along, terrorism or war comes along...we need to realize that if we're gonna have nuclear power, we're gonna have nuclear accidents, and we need to be prepared to think about that, and plan for it.

Or if it's new and built of a fucking fault line when a 9+ earthquake hits it.

275 McSpiff  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:38:24pm

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #271 SanFranciscoZionist

That, certainly for me, is the concern, although I'm not shutting the door on nuclear either. I'm sure the new technology is super. But what happens when it's thirty years old, hasn't been perfectly maintained, some perfect storm comes along, terrorism or war comes along...we need to realize that if we're gonna have nuclear power, we're gonna have nuclear accidents, and we need to be prepared to think about that, and plan for it.

These things are usually as political as they are technical. If a company wants to cheap out, the best engineers in the world won't save you.

276 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:38:57pm

re: #253 sagehen

The wind farms in central california are really pretty -- I always wanted "Highlander" to set a quickening at one of those.

I think they look nice as well. Some guy here, a year or so ago, was absolutely incredulous that anyone could think they weren't hideous.

277 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:39:06pm

re: #270 moderatelyradicalliberal

With all do respect, isn't that the point? Worst case scenarios do happen, and when disaster strikes, it's really, really, disastrous. Almost beyond comprehension. It wouldn't be so bad if precautions based on all plausible outcomes are taken, but often they aren't. Japan is on of the most earthquake and tsunami ridden parts of the world and they either didn't make plans for the worst worst case scenario or they didn't work. Same thing with the Gulf oil spill. Part of the fear that people who are opposed to deep sea oil drilling and nuclear energy is that when disaster strikes, we almost always find out that the private companies gave assurances of safety that were false and the government wasn't terrible interested in enforcing laws or regulations that would ensure safety.

My practical side agrees with you to not let fear rule out energy options that are generally safe, but my cynical side doesn't trust the assurances of safety from private companies or the government.

Was Chernobyl built by the private sector?

278 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:39:34pm

re: #273 ggt

I think there is a chance that someone (probably some 16 year old somewhere) will figure out a way to compress energy like we do data files. Just think, we could mail thumb-drive type devices with enough energy to power a mall for a week or more.

Hey, I know it's Sci-Fi thinking, but did anyone even 10 years ago really think there would be thumb-drives? or Twitter? or Kindle?

I know energy is a different ballgame entirely, but we are in a Brave New World and I have to believe it is possible.

That takes a lot of faith...lol.

Nuclear energy is rather compressed--lots of energy extractable in a rather small amount of materiel.

279 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:40:49pm

Any reports on how that highway Japan built over the ocean did with all this?

I remember seeing a Modern Marvels about it. I think the Airport construction as part of the same plan. Suppossed to be earthquake proof.

the show about it make it seem uber cool.

280 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:41:07pm

I just found this on Foreign Policy. It makes me ill.

281 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:41:45pm

re: #270 moderatelyradicalliberal

With all do respect, isn't that the point? Worst case scenarios do happen, and when disaster strikes, it's really, really, disastrous. Almost beyond comprehension. It wouldn't be so bad if precautions based on all plausible outcomes are taken, but often they aren't. Japan is on of the most earthquake and tsunami ridden parts of the world and they either didn't make plans for the worst worst case scenario or they didn't work. Same thing with the Gulf oil spill. Part of the fear that people who are opposed to deep sea oil drilling and nuclear energy is that when disaster strikes, we almost always find out that the private companies gave assurances of safety that were false and the government wasn't terrible interested in enforcing laws or regulations that would ensure safety.

My practical side agrees with you to not let fear rule out energy options that are generally safe, but my cynical side doesn't trust the assurances of safety from private companies or the government.

Well, then - what to do?
Shut them all down?
Or accept that there are and will be risks, and safety assurances may not be all they're supposed to be, and proceed? And make technology changes when events show a need for it - as in the BP event, and as events in Japan are showing now.

282 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:41:48pm

re: #272 BryanS

Westinghouse is a US company...just building their new safer design in China.

More wiki
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yep, selling it over there, because nobody's buying over here. Meanwhile, we've got dozens of reactors here that are 30+ years old, fast approaching the ends of their design lifespans, with only two real options: upgrade them and push the lifespan out or replace them with fossil fuels. Somehow, I get the feeling the latter is going to become a lot more "popular" in coming weeks and months.

283 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:41:53pm

re: #278 BryanS

That takes a lot of faith...lol.

Nuclear energy is rather compressed--lots of energy extractable in a rather small amount of materiel.

the wackiest dreams have come true in our lifetime.

Why not believe . . ..?

and lobby for more science education. . . . .

284 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:42:45pm

re: #277 ggt

Was Chernobyl built by the private sector?

Well I'm sure the Soviet government was in charge, but when it comes to assurances of safety for deep sea oil drilling and nuclear power here in the US, I have a difficult time believing the assurances of safety from private companies or the government. Too many companies that want to do things on the cheap and too many people in the government who are inclined to let them.

285 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:44:39pm

re: #280 ProLifeLiberal

I just found this on Foreign Policy. It makes me ill.

from your link:

overhearing my English-language conversation, brashly reached out to me. "We Chinese people feel very badly for Japan," one said, while declining to give me her name. "We know that Japan cared very much for China after our earthquake. So we will want to help them." When I asked if either one would consider donating to the Red Cross, just as Chinese had done in droves after the Wenchuan quake, they looked at each other, then back at me. "Why not?," answered the one who already done all of the talking. "China is becoming a great nation these days. We should."

Does that mean they are becoming like the USA and should be more charitable to the rest of the world?

This attitude I would welcome.

286 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:44:48pm

U.S. Navy aircraft carrier detects radiation

(CNN) -- U.S. Navy personnel are taking precautionary measures after instruments aboard an aircraft carrier docked in Japan detected low levels of radioactivity from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, the Navy said Tuesday.
The USS George Washington was docked for maintenance in Yokosuka, about 175 miles (280 kilometers) from the plant, when instruments detected the radiation at 7 a.m. Tuesday (6 p.m. ET Monday), the Navy said in a statement.
Personnel will limit outdoor activities and secure external ventilation systems there and at a nearby air facility in Atsugi.
"These measures are strictly precautionary in nature. We do not expect that any United States federal radiation exposure limits will be exceeded even if no precautionary measures are taken," the Navy said.

287 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:45:32pm

re: #277 ggt

Was Chernobyl built by the private sector?

Nope, twas a 1950s-era design that was seriously flawed, built by a state that exemplified all the negative connotations of the phrase "built by the lowest bidder," and staffed with men who pretended to work while their "employers" pretended to pay them.

288 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:46:40pm

re: #284 moderatelyradicalliberal

Well I'm sure the Soviet government was in charge, but when it comes to assurances of safety for deep sea oil drilling and nuclear power here in the US, I have a difficult time believing the assurances of safety from private companies or the government. Too many companies that want to do things on the cheap and too many people in the government who are inclined to let them.

And many are loaded with money and willing to spend it on the safest, most comfortable power plant they can build. A scientist's wet dream. All the bells and whistles.

I think we have to ask who is in charge, a scientist or a business person? And, who are they beholden to? a Board of Directors of investors or one of other scientists . . . .

289 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:46:47pm

re: #284 moderatelyradicalliberal

Well I'm sure the Soviet government was in charge, but when it comes to assurances of safety for deep sea oil drilling and nuclear power here in the US, I have a difficult time believing the assurances of safety from private companies or the government. Too many companies that want to do things on the cheap and too many people in the government who are inclined to let them.

And plenty of customers who don't ask questions except when the price goes up.

290 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:47:54pm

re: #283 ggt

the wackiest dreams have come true in our lifetime.

Why not believe . . ..?

and lobby for more science education. . . .

Ohh....I believe that day will come. When oil becomes more expensive than the next best alternative. The last oil spike created all sorts of technological advances. Another spike in prices if sustained will only push us closer.

In the mean time, shale oil is becoming more affordable. Guess not all advances go the way we want them to. Still, if anything less expensive is viable, we'll see it.

291 Henchman Ghazi-808  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:51:39pm

re: #241 austin_blue


I'll take the hits, but you assholes are just wrong, wrong, wrong.

Wise up.


I could be wrong, but that makes me an asshole?

You could be right and still be an asshole.

It is you who should wise up. And get some manners too.

292 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:52:03pm

re: #290 BryanS

Ohh...I believe that day will come. When oil becomes more expensive than the next best alternative. The last oil spike created all sorts of technological advances. Another spike in prices if sustained will only push us closer.

In the mean time, shale oil is becoming more affordable. Guess not all advances go the way we want them to. Still, if anything less expensive is viable, we'll see it.

Simple economics.

We won't ever run out of oil because when the price becomes too high, we will find another source. I think we will be using fossil fuels for some time to come and we'd probably better just accept it, fund research and find cleaner ways to use it.

I'd like to see nuclear find a home tho, I think it's the best alternative, but probably won't have the political backing needed.

Oil is something people can understand, so it's an easier sell. Regardless of the long-term impact.

293 BryanS  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:52:56pm
#
0512: Japanese PM Naoto Kan has sent a text message to mobile phones users across the country, asking them to conserve power, Reuters reports.


That update on bbc's live coverage web site just struck me--free peoples use communications technology for good. Unlike middle east dictators who stifle it.

294 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:53:13pm

re: #285 ggt

And more tolerant of minorities? I'll believe that when I see it.

295 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:53:25pm

re: #281 reine.de.tout

Well, then - what to do?
Shut them all down?
Or accept that there are and will be risks, and safety assurances may not be all they're supposed to be, and proceed? And make technology changes when events show a need for it - as in the BP event, and as events in Japan are showing now.

No, I'm not saying shut them all down. Probably some, but not all. I'm just expressing a fear that many people have and it's not an irrational one.

296 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:53:36pm

Anyone still wanna stand up for nuclear power after this? Seriously.

297 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:55:24pm

re: #294 ProLifeLiberal

And more tolerant of minorities? I'll believe that when I see it.

Hey stranger things have happened.

10 countries in the Arab world are being told by their citizenry that freedom is way forward. And the elites/governments are listening (some not so well).

The US has a black man in the White House . . .

If China is truly becoming a great nation, they will evolve toward freedom not away from it.

Prejudice takes generations to recede. Prosperity and Freedom are the major factors in making that happen. IMHO.

298 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:55:41pm

re: #296 laZardo

Anyone still wanna stand up for nuclear power after this? Seriously.

I will.

299 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:56:32pm

re: #296 laZardo

Anyone still wanna stand up for nuclear power after this? Seriously.

I will, considering the alternatives currently available.

300 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:56:34pm

re: #295 moderatelyradicalliberal

No, I'm not saying shut them all down. Probably some, but not all. I'm just expressing a fear that many people have and it's not an irrational one.

Oh, gosh.
I'm not pretending that the fears are irrational.
It's what I see as over-reaction that I find irrational - we have what we have for production of energy and there is risk with all of them. We accept and protect ourselves as best we know how; or we shut down. It's the shutter-downers who are overreacting, IMO.

301 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:57:56pm

re: #288 ggt

And many are loaded with money and willing to spend it on the safest, most comfortable power plant they can build. A scientist's wet dream. All the bells and whistles.

I think we have to ask who is in charge, a scientist or a business person
? And, who are they beholden to? a Board of Directors of investors or one of other scientists . . .

Um, you wanna place a bet on that? I'd put my money on the business person being in charge.

302 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:58:44pm

re: #297 ggt

But we also have a UNSC nation deciding to hold up proceedings in the Security Council to support Gaddafi. I have decided I will register a complaint with each Russian Consulate in the US tomorrow.

303 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:58:44pm

re: #298 ggt

re: #299 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Even though it may take millions of years before humans can safely live near Chernobyl again? Even though what appears to be TEPCO's cover-ups feels somewhat similar to BP's Deepwater Horizon tragedy on a nuclear scale?

304 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:59:11pm

re: #301 moderatelyradicalliberal

Um, you wanna place a bet on that? I'd put my money on the business person being in charge.

Probably a PhD in science with a Masters in Business.

305 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:01:27pm

re: #303 laZardo

re: #299 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Even though it may take millions of years before humans can safely live near Chernobyl again? Even though what appears to be TEPCO's cover-ups feels somewhat similar to BP's Deepwater Horizon tragedy on a nuclear scale?

I think someone said 800 years, not millions.

Besides that, yes.

306 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:01:32pm

re: #303 laZardo

re: #299 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Even though it may take millions of years before humans can safely live near Chernobyl again? Even though what appears to be TEPCO's cover-ups feels somewhat similar to BP's Deepwater Horizon tragedy on a nuclear scale?

Can you suggest an alternative that could replace either, while being totally safe?

307 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:02:48pm

I'm thinking there might be one or two at BP chuckling over how they think this Japan disaster has put their blowout into some sort of perspective.

The difference being, in my mind anyhow - BP knew there was a problem and went on ahead DESPITE advice of experts to shut the well down. Whereas Japan was just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

308 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:04:38pm

re: #306 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Can you suggest an alternative that could replace either, while being totally safe?

Solar power. China has demonstrated they can at least power smaller cities with it. Geothermal, which taps into the energy of the Ring of Fire and - if destroyed by "the inevitable" will not leave (man-made?) permanent environmental scars.

Of course, thanks to NIMBYism, the only other option is to DRILL BABY DRILL.

309 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:04:47pm

re: #296 laZardo

Anyone still wanna stand up for nuclear power after this? Seriously.

Yes.

310 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:05:06pm

re: #300 reine.de.tout

Oh, gosh.
I'm not pretending that the fears are irrational.
It's what I see as over-reaction that I find irrational - we have what we have for production of energy and there is risk with all of them. We accept and protect ourselves as best we know how; or we shut down. It's the shutter-downers who are overreacting, IMO.

In my opinion the anti-nuclear activists are the least of nuclear power's problems. First, you have the fact that the largest generation in the country grew up hiding under desks during nuclear drills with images of mushroom clouds in their heads. You say "nuclear" and that's what they think. An energy source that can be weaponized is inherently scary. Second, you have fears of cancer caused by radiation if a leak were to occur so nobody wants it in their backyard. Third, a lack of private investment. It's just not something that a lot of big money people are clamoring to put their money into and the government wants no part of building or running nuclear power plants either.

311 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:06:38pm

re: #304 ggt

Probably a PhD in science with a Masters in Business.

I got an engineering degree and an MBA, so there are lots of people with heads for science and business. But that's both and you didn't give me that option. :p

312 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:07:45pm

Just saw this on my Twitter feed:


Tokyo detects "minute" amount of radiation

(Reuters) - "Minute levels" of radiation have been detected in the Japanese capital, Tokyo, Kyodo news agency said, quoting the metropolitan government.

They had found iodine and cesium but it was not immediately clear if it was linked to the damaged nuclear plant in the northeast.

It also said that radiation levels in Saitama, near Tokyo, were 40 times normal levels, quoting the local government.

313 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:10:46pm

re: #310 moderatelyradicalliberal

Born 1948. I remember images of mushroom clouds on my crayons.

314 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:11:20pm

re: #312 JasonA

As posted before...totally calling it.

315 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:12:24pm

re: #29 freetoken

Consider me a bit of a loon, but I am fairly sure the Japanese people don't appreciate being lied to about nuclear accidents, whatever their cultural disposition.

316 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:12:38pm

I will also call a consulate each for Britain, France, and Portugal or showing support for the rebels in their various ways. Portugal just recognized the opposition as the legitimate government.

317 Four More Tears  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:12:56pm

re: #314 laZardo

As posted before...totally calling it.

I think the phrase "too soon" was made for this.

318 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:13:25pm

re: #308 laZardo

Solar power. China has demonstrated they can at least power smaller cities with it. Geothermal, which taps into the energy of the Ring of Fire and - if destroyed by "the inevitable" will not leave (man-made?) permanent environmental scars.

Of course, thanks to NIMBYism, the only other option is to DRILL BABY DRILL.

You're talking massive investments into both, not to mention a great deal of open land to accommodate them. Neither is something you're going to see outside of the federal government, something that's not exactly popular in D.C. these days.

319 freetoken  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:14:26pm

re: #315 000G

... but I am fairly sure the Japanese people don't appreciate being lied to about nuclear accidents, ...

Didn't realize I had said that.

320 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:16:15pm

re: #318 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

You're talking massive investments into both, not to mention a great deal of open land to accommodate them. Neither is something you're going to see outside of the federal government, something that's not exactly popular in D.C. these days.

That I agree with. As mentioned in an earlier argument between Rogue and Obdicut, the current Congress' attitude toward spending would rather risk paying for the potential damage later rather than bring in the infrastructure today.

As for open land, America at the least has vast swathes of desert that can be potentially covered with solar cells, unfortunately NIMBYists go on about how it's destroying habitats. I mean...it's a lifeless stretch of sand and rock.

321 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:16:55pm

re: #310 moderatelyradicalliberal

In my opinion the anti-nuclear activists are the least of nuclear power's problems. First, you have the fact that the largest generation in the country grew up hiding under desks during nuclear drills with images of mushroom clouds in their heads. You say "nuclear" and that's what they think. An energy source that can be weaponized is inherently scary. Second, you have fears of cancer caused by radiation if a leak were to occur so nobody wants it in their backyard. Third, a lack of private investment. It's just not something that a lot of big money people are clamoring to put their money into and the government wants no part of building or running nuclear power plants either.

I'm part of that generation you're talking about - I can clearly recall the drills where we huddled under our desks - completely perplexed as to why, exactly. We were clueless, and just did what we were told. So no, you say "nuclear", and nuclear attack isn't what we all automatically think.

Any energy source can be weaponized - weapons are focused energy.

That leaves the lack of private interest and investment - cost. When a company can make enough to cover their costs (because the competition has gotten too expensive for people to afford) - we'll see private interest and investment.

322 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:18:38pm

re: #320 laZardo

That I agree with. As mentioned in an earlier argument between Rogue and Obdicut, the current Congress' attitude toward spending would rather risk paying for the potential damage later rather than bring in the infrastructure today.

As for open land, America at the least has vast swathes of desert that can be potentially covered with solar cells, unfortunately NIMBYists go on about how it's destroying habitats. I mean...it's a lifeless stretch of sand and rock.

Same argument people make about ANWR, which is a pinpoint of land in a huge area.

323 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:18:39pm

re: #321 reine.de.tout

There's a difference between an energy source as a weapon's power and as a weapon's payload.

324 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:19:44pm

re: #323 laZardo

There's a difference between an energy source as a weapon's power and as a weapon's payload.

Sure.
But any energy source can be weaponized.
The assertion was that it was scary when an energy source can be weaponized - and my point is that any of them can.

325 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:21:01pm

re: #311 moderatelyradicalliberal

I got an engineering degree and an MBA, so there are lots of people with heads for science and business. But that's both and you didn't give me that option. :p

sorry.

I know there are a lot of scientifically minded folk out there who get their MBA because there are only so many jobs with good pay available in the science community.

Like my Dad. (although he was an Engineer, not strickly a scientists, I guess). He loved engineering, but wanted to make more money, so he went into management.

I was thinking of a scenerio in which the Nuclear Project would be headed by someone who was purely a businesman with no science background hired by a board of directors of investors who wanted to make a profit on the plant in the short-term.

I wasn't clear enough.

And I'm so tired, I'm barely remembering the origin of this strain of conversation.

326 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:25:15pm

re: #325 ggt

sorry.

I know there are a lot of scientifically minded folk out there who get their MBA because there are only so many jobs with good pay available in the science community.

Like my Dad. (although he was an Engineer, not strickly a scientists, I guess). He loved engineering, but wanted to make more money, so he went into management.

I was thinking of a scenerio in which the Nuclear Project would be headed by someone who was purely a businesman with no science background hired by a board of directors of investors who wanted to make a profit on the plant in the short-term.

I wasn't clear enough.

And I'm so tired, I'm barely remembering the origin of this strain of conversation.

I'm tired too.
The Roi has to get up at 2 a.m. our time (about 35 minutes from now), to be at the heliport at 4:30 for the helicopter out to the rig. I'm trying to stay up 'til he gets up, so I don't disturb his sleep, and I'm having a hard time of it right about now.

327 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:26:59pm

re: #326 reine.de.tout

I'm tired too.
The Roi has to get up at 2 a.m. our time (about 35 minutes from now), to be at the heliport at 4:30 for the helicopter out to the rig. I'm trying to stay up 'til he gets up, so I don't disturb his sleep, and I'm having a hard time of it right about now.

I just re-read what I wrote and I apologized for not being clear enough in the original post.

I don't think my reponse was any clearer.

sorry, moderatelyradicallyliberal
:)

328 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:31:03pm

Did we get any hatchlings brave enough to post from open registration?

I need more coffee . . .

329 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:32:26pm

re: #319 freetoken

Didn't realize I had said that.

"Japanese culture", the reason you made up to explain the intransparency of both TEPCO and the government, is a concept usually applied to the Japanese people as a whole.

The actual reason is most likely just that they wanted to placate people until they could get a handle on things and not deal with any outrage (at the same time, because stressful, or later, because emberassing). Has nothing to do with "Japanese culture", I am fairly certain that most governments and most nuclear power plant operators would have reacted the same.

330 ProGunLiberal  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:35:01pm

re: #326 reine.de.tout

I think we are interesting enough to keep you awake.

331 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:36:54pm

I can't find any reference to the Japanese Highway over the ocean I saw the Modern Marvel episode about.

I can't even find a reference to the highway itself. I don't know it's name or when it was built.

I am soo frustrated because it was built specifically to withstand earthquakes and I am dying to know how it performed.

332 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:39:05pm

re: #331 ggt

I am soo frustrated because it was built specifically to withstand earthquakes and I am dying to know how it performed.

If it got destroyed, they would have already shown it.

333 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:39:44pm

re: #332 laZardo

If it got destroyed, they would have already shown it.

But what is it called???

If it survived, I'd like to know how the technology did as a whole.

334 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:40:44pm

I know they say that life imitates art, but this is ridiculous.

335 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:41:40pm

re: #334 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I know they say that life imitates art, but this is ridiculous.

Have 3 girls been dispatched to help?

336 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:42:07pm

re: #335 ggt

Have 3 girls been dispatched to help?

It's not 2036 yet. Come on, man, you gotta give them time.

337 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:42:52pm

re: #336 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not 2036 yet. Come on, man, you gotta give them time.

20+ years for 3 girls . . ?

338 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:44:59pm

re: #337 ggt

20+ years for 3 girls . . ?

This is the point where, if this were a TV show and we were standing next to each other, a dope slap would be in order.

339 laZardo  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:46:30pm

re: #337 ggt

20+ years for 3 girls . . ?

They're the three made anime-cute by the radiation.

340 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:46:39pm

re: #338 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

This is the point where, if this were a TV show and we were standing next to each other, a dope slap would be in order.

LOL

341 reine.de.tout  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:49:47pm

re: #330 ProLifeLiberal

I think we are interesting enough to keep you awake.

Yes, of course!
Plus, I just went shopping. I love the internet, I can shop at 2 a.m.! How great is that?

I got my daughter's living arrangements for next year settled today. Thank goodness. I love her dearly, but it's just time for her to be out on her own, and the dorm was just not an option for next year. It costs almost the same to have her in an apartment with 2 other girls.

This complex was built specifically for the needs of college students, and all their tenants are students. Internet and cable included; tutors included, if she needs them. Two equipment equipped work-out rooms in the complex main building, with another room for classes like yoga, pilates, etc. Computer stations. A study room with walls that are all blackboard, they can write or do math on the walls if they need to! Study groups. A swimming pool, and several BBQ facilities under a pavilion with an outdoor kitchen. Individual leases for just their portion of the apartment, not the entire apartment, so if a roommate doesn't pay their portion of the rent, the others in the apt. aren't liable for it.

It's quite fabulous.

342 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:52:29pm

Well folks, I need at least a few hours of rest before work today, so I bid you all ado. Hold my calls.

343 ssn697  Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:53:35pm

I feel like I was lied to about the extent of the problem with the reactors, right up until now (when all hell has broken loose).

344 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:02:18am

A-bomb survivors urge gov't, TEPCO to have 'more sense of crisis'

Survivors of the 1945 U.S. atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki have expressed frustration at the way the government and Tokyo Electric Power Co. are handling the crippled-nuclear-plant situation after Friday's powerful earthquake, calling on them to have ''more sense of crisis.''

''The state and the electricity firm were saying the volume (of radiation feared to have leaked) is insignificant, but I think they're taking this situation so lightly,'' said Haruhide Tamamoto, an 80-year-old hibakusha, or atomic-bombing survivor, in Hiroshima Prefecture.

''Speaking from my experience of suffering diseases and health concerns for a long time since being exposed to radiation, the horror of radiation is not like that,'' he said. ''I want them to have more of a sense of crisis.''

Radiation is feared to have leaked after part of a container vessel was apparently damaged by an explosion at TEPCO's troubled No. 2 reactor at the quake-hit Fukushima nuclear plant Tuesday morning, triggering fears the problem could develop into a critical ''meltdown'' situation.

Survivors of the U.S. atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in World War II expressed concern over the risk of health problems that could be caused by the radioactive material leakage, while some questioned the safety of nuclear power plants in other areas.

Hirotami Yamada, 79, bureau chief of the Nagasaki Atomic Bomb Survivors Council, said, ''Nuclear power generation has been said to be safe but it was proved that it's very fragile.''

Sakue Shimohira, 76, an adviser to an association of bereaved families of atomic-bombing victims in Nagasaki Prefecture, said, ''I'm worried that they (people near the Fukushima nuclear plant) are going to suffer the same pain as hibakusha.''

[...]

and...


NEWS ADVISORY: Chugoku Electric to suspend construction of Yamaguchi Pref. nuke plant

Thus begins the end of nuclear power?

345 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:03:40am

PIMF The last line is my comment,

Thus begins the end of nuclear power?

not part of the Kyodo headline.

346 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:04:27am

re: #344 freetoken

"an 80-year-old hibakusha, or atomic-bombing survivor, in Hiroshima Prefecture."

Lived for 80 years?

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:06:22am

re: #346 ggt

"an 80-year-old hibakusha, or atomic-bombing survivor, in Hiroshima Prefecture."

Lived for 80 years?

Some people did. A man died just a couple of years ago who survived both atomic bombs.

348 laZardo  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:06:23am

re: #345 freetoken

Well, I'm hopeful.

349 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:07:42am

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Some people did. A man died just a couple of years ago who survived both atomic bombs.

Not wanting to discount their pain and suffering. I am ignorant of such long-term effects.

How is what they have endured different from what other's who have lived for 80 years suffered?

350 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:09:55am

re: #349 ggt

Obviously those exposed to a great deal of fallout didn't live long.

But there are many who suffered exposure that have lived on: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

351 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:10:31am

Ah, they're all assholes! And morans!

On a serious note, many people smoked for 50 years and never got cancer.

Many did get cancer, or emphysema, or other issues.

352 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:12:07am

re: #351 BigPapa

Ah, they're all assholes! And morans!

On a serious note, many people smoked for 50 years and never got cancer.

Many did get cancer, or emphysema, or other issues.

I think austin blue was right.

353 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:12:56am

re: #352 ggt

I think austin blue was right.

Right about what?

354 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:13:26am

re: #353 BigPapa

Right about what?

his opinion

355 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:15:04am

re: #354 ggt

his opinion

Being pro nuclear power?

356 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:15:29am

re: #349 ggt

Not wanting to discount their pain and suffering. I am ignorant of such long-term effects.

How is what they have endured different from what other's who have lived for 80 years suffered?

Many of the survivors who didn't die of the effects of the radiation survived bad burns, and other ongoing health effects. I believe they also faced a great deal of social discrimination in the years after the war, as did their children.

357 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:15:53am

re: #355 BigPapa

Being pro nuclear power?

Yeah that's it.

358 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:16:12am

I'm exhausted.

Have a great morning all!

359 sagehen  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:22:53am

re: #356 SanFranciscoZionist

Many of the survivors who didn't die of the effects of the radiation survived bad burns, and other ongoing health effects. I believe they also faced a great deal of social discrimination in the years after the war, as did their children.

I'd certainly be wary of them as reproductive partners...

360 BryanS  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:23:52am
#
0709: There is a fire at a spent fuel pond of a reactor and radioactivity has been released into the atmosphere, says the IAEA according to AFP news agency.


That ain't good. I've read this kind of event has the possibility of spewing a lot of radioactive waste into the atmosphere.

361 BryanS  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:24:29am

re: #360 BryanS

From bbc... [Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:24:54am

re: #359 sagehen

I'd certainly be wary of them as reproductive partners...

People were.

363 Alexzander  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 12:40:21am

re: #362 SanFranciscoZionist

Sadness.

364 Spocomptonite  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 1:09:25am

re: #63 Ojoe

If we must build these nuclear Balrogs, let us at least site them in tandem with hydro plants that have a huge reserve of water under a sufficient static head.

Good night.

Megathrust earthquake = dam failure = inundation of plant by wall of water no matter the height above sea level.

Even if you put the nuclear plant upriver, the situation would be the same as it is now (no water), except everyone downstream has a problem in addition to everyone downwind.

The best solution is using molten salt to cool the reactor (allows for much higher temperatures, almost to the point where meltdown is meaningless) and stick the whole thing underground so if something does happen, it's not exposed to the outside environment.

365 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 3:12:25am

Looks like TEPCO is going to be Kan's "fall guy":

Kan raps Tokyo Electric's handling of nuclear crisis


Prime Minister Naoto Kan on Tuesday strongly criticized Tokyo Electric Power Co. for its handling of the earthquake-stricken Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant.

''The TV reported an explosion. But nothing was said to the premier's office for about an hour,'' a Kyodo News reporter overheard Kan saying during a meeting with executives of the power company at its head office. ''What the hell is going on?''

Kan strongly ordered the company not to withdraw its employees from the power plant, which has been facing a series of problems since Friday's massive quake, ranging from explosions to radiation leaks.

''In the event of withdrawal from there, I'm 100 percent certain that the company will collapse,'' Kan said. ''I want you all to be determined.''

The government, as well as the public, has been dissatisfied with the company's way of releasing information regarding the crippled nuclear plant.

Fukushima Gov. Yuhei Sato phoned Kan and told him that ''the fears and anger of residents in the prefecture are reaching the limit,'' according to a prefectural government official.

Sato requested that the government make more efforts to end the nuclear crisis as quickly as possible, the official said.

Following the request, the governor said at a news conference that Kan has promised to take the feelings of people living in the prefecture to heart and give his all to deal with the emergency situation.

Sato complained about the power company's response to the abnormalities of the plant. He said the company ''should provide accurate information much earlier to the central government.''

In an attempt to work more closely together, the government and the company launched Tuesday a joint headquarters for the crisis involving the Fukushima No. 1 plant.

The headquarters set up at the company's head office is headed by Kan, with industry minister Banri Kaieda and TEPCO President Masataka Shimizu serving as deputy chiefs.

Yup, that's right, the PM wants the TEPCO workers to not withdraw from the physical plant...

366 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 3:40:45am

Of all the quake/tsunami vids, this one is one of the strangest... the guy is so calm as the Earth beneath him cracks, moves, and gushes water:

367 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:02:54am

re: #359 sagehen

I'd certainly be wary of them as reproductive partners...

You can't hug a child with nuclear arms...

368 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:03:16am

Morning all. It's too quiet.

369 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:06:35am

re: #368 RogueOne

Morning all. It's too quiet.

BOO!!!

370 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:09:45am

re: #366 freetoken

Of all the quake/tsunami vids, this one is one of the strangest... the guy is so calm as the Earth beneath him cracks, moves, and gushes water:

[Video]

People react differently in crisis or weird types of situations. Some lose it with various levels of outright emotion and some go all calm and methodical like this guy.

371 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:15:11am

re: #366 freetoken

"This is Carlton, your doorman."

372 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:24:14am

The disaster in Japan is providing some cover for the sauds:

Bahrain residents anxious as foreign troops arrive to quell protests
[Link: www.cnn.com...]


Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates sent troops Monday to "protect the safety of citizens," the Bahraini government said.

But some in the capital city said Tuesday they did not need the added protection.

"We don't understand why these troops are coming in," said a 28-year-old blogger in Manama. "We have an army and police. We do not need troops from other places. Opposition leaders have called this an invasion. An act of war"
.....
But a 25-year-old banker from Manama said she welcomed the presence.

"It gives us peace," the woman said. "Maybe these protests will finally end. These protesters say they are peaceful, but I have seen them carrying sticks and knives. They are blocking the streets so we cannot get to work. They are criminals and this has gone on for too long."

373 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:24:28am

Good Morning Lizards!

374 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:25:56am

I'm just numb at the events unfolding in Japan. My prayers are with the Japanese people.

375 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:32:11am

re: #374 Alouette

I'm just numb at the events unfolding in Japan. My prayers are with the Japanese people.

Don't sweat it! Beck says its all a Soros plot!//

Praying hard for the Japanese people too.

376 Jadespring  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:35:53am

re: #374 Alouette

I'm just numb at the events unfolding in Japan. My prayers are with the Japanese people.

Me too. I was thinking last night that if someone had made a disaster movie with this scenario as the plot line and the video we've seen was just special effects I would have thought it to be completely over the top and silly.

377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:46:55am

Japan is smaller than California with three times the number of people. Holy hell.

378 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:47:55am

re: #376 Jadespring

They'd still throw in a Poseidon Adventure wave and a giant lizard, just for good measure...

379 researchok  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:50:38am

Morning, all

380 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:51:18am

One of the joys of small town living. You have to read the whole story to understand how screwed up this is:

Speeder, aftermath roil Rogers police
3 people are on paid leave amid questions about deadly force, ethics.
[Link: www.startribune.com...]

(Synopsis from Balko)


A witness reported seeing Hayen pull his squad car into the road at the last minute to block the motorcyclist as he was riding at a high rate of speed, causing the motorcyclist to crash. The witness says he attempted to report what he saw but neither Hayen nor Miller took a statement from him or ever called him back. Their report doesn’t mention Hayen moving his car into the motorcyclist’s path, or the presence of the witness.

We know all of this because a month later, the witness casually mentioned the incident to Sgt. Joleen Pitts at a police department open house. Alarmed, Pitts relayed the story to Rogers Police Chief Jeff Luther. Luther interviewed the witness, then opened an investigation into Hayen and Miller. In January, Luther testified at a closed city council meeting, where he argued that Hayen and Miller should be fired. Hayen was put on administrative leave, but the city took no further action.

Against Hayen or Miller, that is. A month later, the city did put Luther and Pitts on administrative leave, for “undisclosed reasons”.
....
Here’s the kicker: Miller is godfather to the daughter of Rogers Mayor Jason Grimm.

Oh wait. Hang on a sec. That’s not the kicker. Here’s the kicker: While Luther is on suspension, Miller has been named acting police chief.

381 researchok  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:56:33am

Hatfield's and McCoys...?

382 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:57:32am

Life Continues in Tokyo - Photos
[Link: www.japantrends.com...]


With the foreign press blowing everything up beyond reality, and the Japanese press allowing the government to keep us in the dark, the truth is somewhere in between. Regardless, we all still have to live and keep going.

So, we went out today to take some photos of people doing their best to live normally, and not staying at home watching television. This is the best we can do as human beings, especially being in a helpless situation as far as the North is concerned. If you have any more images of the positive side of Japanese life at this time, in any part of the country, and would like them added to the roster, please contact us.

All of these photos were taken today in Tokyo. Somehow, life goes on.

Image: japan-tsunami-harajuku-takeshita.jpg

383 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:58:13am

re: #381 researchok

Hatfield's and McCoys...?

With a northern accent. "It's not what you know, it's who you know"

384 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:58:49am

re: #380 RogueOne

We had a gunman scare shut down the local mall last night. Police tore the damn place apart. No gunman.

It was like "Shop, Darkman, Shop".

385 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:59:23am

re: #383 RogueOne

With a northern accent. "It's not what you know, it's who you blknow"

386 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 4:59:36am

re: #384 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are people not allowed to carry in the malls there?

387 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:00:36am

re: #384 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We had a gunman scare shut down the local mall last night. Police tore the damn place apart. No gunman.

It was like "Shop, Darkman, Shop".

Tanglewood or Valley View?

388 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:00:54am

re: #386 RogueOne

Are people not allowed to carry in the malls there?


You can carry in malls in VA.

389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:04:58am

re: #387 rwdflynavy

Valley View. Check Roanoke.com.

390 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:05:31am

re: #389 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Valley View. Check Roanoke.com.

Figures.

391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:06:21am

Los Angeles to San Diego.

As I can figure? Approximately the distance between Tokyo and the reactors.

Whoa.

392 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:07:46am

re: #390 rwdflynavy

There's no one at Tanglewood.

"In every town, they's two malls. One the white folks go to? And the one the white folks used to go to."
-Chris Rock

393 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:09:37am

Estranged son of Westboro Baptist speaks out
[Link: www.kmov.com...]


Nathan Phelps left his family on his 18th birthday. That was more than three decades ago. It was the last day he spent with them. He hasn't spoken to his father since he walked out.

I "cease to exist " to him, Nathan told me.
....
News 4: "Your father told me he raised 13 children and that nine of them turned out good."

Nathan: "Three of us left, actually four, but Catherine (my oldest sister) has tried to stay there. So, she kind of lives in a no man's land. She attends the church, but she's ostracized. So, she has to sit in an ante-room there. They can't have anything to do with her."

At first, Nate told me it was a relief to leave his family. "Then, as I got older," he told me, "I had to go through a mourning process of losing your family."

Nate remains extremely critical of his father, Pastor Fred Phelps.

"He's being hurtful, terribly hurtful to people, and he's done that his entire life," Nate told me. "He believes this is what God wants him to do. I would say he's very insensitive. He's mean spirited. I think he's a sociopath. I think that he fits that. Just the way he was. His inability to empathize with others. His calculated cruelty, and then laughing at the harm that it causes. I saw it time and again growing up with him."

What a screwed up way to enter the world, born into the phelps clan.

394 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:10:37am

re: #382 RogueOne


Image: japan-tsunami-harajuku-takeshita.jpg

Harajuku is a part of Tokyo to which young people flock to try out trendy, or just absurd, fashion trends in their aim to live in a fantasy world.

395 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:10:51am

re: #392 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's no one at Tanglewood.

"In every town, they's two malls. One the white folks go to? And the one the white folks used to go to."
-Chris Rock

I'm surprised Tanglewood is still open. I thought it would close years ago. Haven't been to VV in a while but understand it has gone downhill.

396 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:11:45am

re: #395 rwdflynavy

Nah. It's fine. Economy has done a number on retail nationwide. But they did some nice expansion work at VV.

397 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:12:10am

Again, Japan's nuclear emergency - p1: Damage at Daiichi - p6: Two worst-case scenarios

One, of course, is classic meltdown of the reactor core(s) and subsequent breech(s) of the primary containment(s). This has already occurred for Units 1,2,3.

If engineers are unable to cool a damaged fuel core, enriched uranium can melt into a pool of radioactive lava, which can burn its way out of the containment vessel or send radioactive steam out through cracks in the system.

Altho Unit4 is said to be in "cold shutdown" (along with Units 5,6), a second worst-case scenario is apparently underway there already --a fire, which is outside the primary containment:

Cooling spent fuel is critical, for if it becomes exposed, an inextinguishable zirconium fire can break out and spew massive amounts of radiation.

I fear the situation is going to get much worse before it gets better. I think that 2nd worst-case scenario is likely to be repeated at the other units with accumulations of spent fuel.

398 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:12:35am

re: #393 RogueOne

Last line of the story:


The estranged son of Westboro Baptist is an atheist.

I can't imagine why...

399 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:12:44am

re: #382 RogueOne

Life Continues in Tokyo - Photos
[Link: www.japantrends.com...]

Image: japan-tsunami-harajuku-takeshita.jpg

That graffiti-tagged wall on the left, is that pre-tagged? I can't believe Japanese would allow random graffiti tagging, that wall had to be specifically decorated to look like graffiti without any actual tagging.

400 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:13:28am

re: #399 Alouette

It's a synthetic world.

401 freetoken  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:15:19am

re: #397 abolitionist

BTW, I was just watching the NHK world broadcast and they were interviewing some supposed expert on nuclear plants, going over what is happening at Fukushima Daiichi. Either he lied, or the translator did it for him.

402 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:20:38am

Did PHX police retaliate against ‘whistle-blowing’ officer?
[Link: www.abc15.com...]


PHOENIX - Some Phoenix city leaders are pressing to find out why a police officer who raised questions about faulty kidnapping statistics years ago wasn't provided "whistle-blower protection."

"Any outside person would obviously look at this and believe he was retaliated against," Councilman Sal Diciccio said.

Sgt. Phil Roberts wrote a memo to the City Manager's Office on August 2, 2009. In that letter, he said he believed there were problems with the city's kidnapping statistics and that they were "moved and shifted."

However, less then three weeks after sending the memo, Roberts was placed under internal investigation. That case was followed by four more internal investigations in the months after. So far, none of the internal investigations launched against Roberts have been sustained

403 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:22:05am

re: #399 Alouette

No, tagging is very big in Japan, with the usual mix of ugly crap and beautiful art.

And just confusing:


Image: dsc01949.jpg (that file is huge, give it time to load.)

404 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:22:16am

re: #397 abolitionist

Oops. I didn't mean to imply that breech of primary containment had already occurred for all of units 1,2,3, but that the meltdowns have. Breech of primary containment for Unit2 has been previously reported.

405 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:26:58am

Snakes dies of silicone poisoning after biting woman's breast (video)
[Link: www.nypost.com...]


A snake died of silicone poisoning after biting the breast of a model.

Israeli model Orit Fox was on Spanish TV's Telecino handling the snake when it latched onto her left breast.

The snake died.

There's a lesson to be learned here but I'm not sure what it is....

406 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:28:20am

re: #405 RogueOne

Snakes dies of silicone poisoning after biting woman's breast (video)
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

There's a lesson to be learned here but I'm not sure what it is...

That can't be good news for the woman.

407 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:31:06am

re: #406 abolitionist

I'm not sure that it was the silicone that did the poor snake in, I found a pic of the "model":

Orit Fox
Image: 2291.jpg

408 researchok  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:34:05am

re: #407 RogueOne

I'm not sure that it was the silicone that did the poor snake in, I found a pic of the "model":

Orit Fox
Image: 2291.jpg

Scared the reptile to death, IMO.

You need to post a warning on that pic

409 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:36:25am

re: #408 researchok

Good idea. I had found a whole load of pics but I didn't want to ruin anyones day:

Orit Fox: A Silicone Disaster
[Link: acidcow.com...]

Those are all SFW (unless you're working in a church office). Scary, but sfw.

410 researchok  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:38:09am

re: #409 RogueOne

Good idea. I had found a whole load of pics but I didn't want to ruin anyones day:

Orit Fox: A Silicone Disaster
[Link: acidcow.com...]

Those are all SFW (unless you're working in a church office). Scary, but sfw.

That woman is job security for some lucky therapist.

411 garhighway  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:39:46am

re: #409 RogueOne

Good idea. I had found a whole load of pics but I didn't want to ruin anyones day:

Orit Fox: A Silicone Disaster
[Link: acidcow.com...]

Those are all SFW (unless you're working in a church office). Scary, but sfw.

My corporate firewall blocked the link: "this site is classified as "tasteless"".

LOL.

I had never gotten that message before. Lots of other ones, but never "tasteless".

412 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:41:44am

re: #409 RogueOne

Good idea. I had found a whole load of pics but I didn't want to ruin anyones day:

Orit Fox: A Silicone Disaster
[Link: acidcow.com...]

Those are all SFW (unless you're working in a church office). Scary, but sfw.

Not clicking on it. The firewall here even blocks "The Onion."

413 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:43:20am

re: #405 RogueOne

Snakes dies of silicone poisoning after biting woman's breast (video)
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

There's a lesson to be learned here but I'm not sure what it is...

Easy, don't bite a fake boob. Always good advice for aesthetic reasons and now a safety issue as well.

414 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 5:46:35am

re: #411 garhighway

My corporate firewall blocked the link: "this site is classified as "tasteless"".

LOL.

I had never gotten that message before. Lots of other ones, but never "tasteless".

HA! I haven't checked the rest of the site but those pics, while disturbing, aren't "tasteless".

415 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:06:23am

re: #411 garhighway

I scrolled the site to see what else they had on there and ran into this:

Boy’s-Urine-Soaked Eggs are Local Specialty in China (4 pics)
[Link: acidcow.com...]

This is a food challenge that would get me to watch Survivor.


Every early spring, a foul odor fills the air of Dongyang, Zhejiang Province. Dongyang people call it “the smell of spring.” But actually this is the smell of urine. Boy egg vendors go to local elementary schools to collect urine from boys, preferably under the age of 10, with buckets. The process of boiling eggs in boys’ urine: first, soak eggs in urine and heat them over the stove. After it boils, get all eggs out and crack their shells before putting them back. After a while, pour in new urine. Repeat it and simmer eggs for an entire day. Such eggs are called "tong zi dan" and cost 1.50 yuan (23 cents) apiece. Local people love the taste of thee eggs and eat up to ten of them each day.

Chinese Wiki: [Link: translate.google.com...]

416 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:10:28am

It was only a matter of time, I suppose...I suppose advertisers never thought about needing to encrypt their signals to display screens. Watch for a few people to have fun with this before it gets a patch.

[Link: www.alexandrosmaragos.com...]

417 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:10:51am

re: #405 RogueOne

Snakes dies of silicone poisoning after biting woman's breast (video)
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

There's a lesson to be learned here but I'm not sure what it is...

Don't believe everything you read.

418 Lidane  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:12:20am

So SXSW Interactive ends today. I'm almost relieved, since this has been a test of endurance. I skipped out on some major parties last night because my body literally protested at the idea of going.

I'm heading off in a bit for what promises to be a long day, starting with a debate over Wikileaks at 9:30am that sounds interesting to me. Have a good one, Lizards!

419 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:12:55am

re: #417 Naso Tang

Don't believe everything you read.

Don't bite off more than you can chew.

420 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:13:50am

re: #417 Naso Tang

Don't ruin it for me. It's not only backed up by Wiki but Chinese Wiki. That means it has to be true, state law.

421 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:15:16am

re: #417 Naso Tang

Doh! I thought you were talking about the eggs.

422 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:16:58am

Mornin' everyone. Grab some bannas and eggs and stuf to make speggtti while you're at the store, will you?

423 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:18:09am

re: #405 RogueOne

Snakes dies of silicone poisoning after biting woman's breast (video)
[Link: www.nypost.com...]

There's a lesson to be learned here but I'm not sure what it is...

Never send a snake in to do a man's job.

424 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:19:31am

re: #423 darthstar

Never send a snake in to do a man's job.

That's one of those jobs you're better off not having.

425 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:21:05am

re: #409 RogueOne

Good idea. I had found a whole load of pics but I didn't want to ruin anyones day:

Orit Fox: A Silicone Disaster
[Link: acidcow.com...]

Those are all SFW (unless you're working in a church office). Scary, but sfw.

Freaky.

426 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:22:53am

re: #425 Varek Raith

Freaky.

There's enough silicone in there to weather-proof my house.

427 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:23:14am

Nuclear meltdown, and here we are talking of piss, snakes and fake tits.

428 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:24:34am

re: #427 Naso Tang

Nuclear meltdown, and here we are talking of piss, snakes and fake tits.

What else can one do?
It's so depressing that sometimes I need to just forget about for a little while.
:(

429 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:25:53am

re: #427 Naso Tang

We'll still have 24 hours of cable news doom to get back to later.

430 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:27:54am

Like this:

Chávez Tries to Rally Venezuela Against a New Enemy
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

431 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:28:23am

re: #424 RogueOne

That's one of those jobs you're better off not having.

Wow...I didn't know who Orit Fox was until I looked at a few of the above links. She's hideous. Please tell me she's making a good living doing porn somewhere because she's going to need reconstructive surgery when she gets into her late 30s if not sooner.

432 Achilles Tang  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:28:36am

Aside from concerns for the Japanese, we have many companies in the US that rely on component supplies from Japan.

What happens to our economy if this becomes worse? What happens if the wind blows towards Tokyo?

433 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:28:46am

re: #427 Naso Tang

Nuclear meltdown, and here we are talking of piss, snakes and fake tits.

That's like so 24 hours ago. Get with the now.

////

434 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:29:28am

re: #429 RogueOne

We'll still have 24 hours of cable news doom to get back to later.

Is Charlie Sheen still fired?

435 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:30:29am

re: #434 darthstar

Is Charlie Sheen still fired alive?


fixd

436 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:31:16am

U.S. Navy aircraft carrier detects radiation

Tokyo (CNN) -- U.S. Navy personnel are taking precautionary measures after instruments aboard an aircraft carrier docked in Japan detected low levels of radioactivity from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, the Navy said Tuesday.

The USS George Washington was docked for maintenance in Yokosuka, about 175 miles (280 kilometers) from the plant in Okuma, when instruments detected the radiation at 7 a.m. Tuesday (6 p.m. ET Monday), the Navy said in a statement.

Personnel will limit outdoor activities and secure external ventilation systems there and at a nearby air facility in Atsugi.

"There is no appreciable health risk, and we are being very conservative in our recommendations," U.S. Naval Forces Japan Commander Rear Adm. Richard Wren said.

437 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:31:52am

re: #434 darthstar

Is Charlie Sheen still fired?

Afraid so, my wife is still taking it pretty hard. Luckily he did a cooking show bit last week to hold her over:

Charlie Sheen's Winning Recipes:

438 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:32:25am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.

How to help.

The death toll continues rising in Japan and is all but likely to grow over 10,000 (current official death toll is about 2,500 and 15,000 are unaccounted for) while the economic toll is likely to be over $100 billion (and the Japanese markets are taking a beating).

The situation at the Japanese nuclear reactors at Fukushima remains uncertain but is worsening (now rating a 6 out of 7 on the nuclear emergency scale) and the TEPCO and Japanese government is dealing with multiple emergencies at the facility - reactors that have lost coolant, a fire at storage pool facility for spent fuel rods, and explosions at the buildings housing reactors and their containment vessels.

The fire at the storage pool appears to be the most serious situation - and it is the one that has released significant amounts of radiation. There are concerns that the pool might be boiling and temperature control was lost. That's only the latest in a series of problems resulting from the 9.0 quake and subsequent tsunamis that destroyed backup systems, causing multiple failures, and power troubles for the country.

Yet, even before all the facts are in, Germany is shutting down all its pre-1980 reactors, in what appears to be a political decision.

What is clear is that backup systems will need to be reevaluated - how to deal with emergency situations such as now facing the Japanese. The backup coolant systems in place rely on pumps, but newer backup systems rely on gravity so that a loss of power would not disable the coolant systems. The situation may also lead to a reevaluation of how multiple reactors are sited at a given plant - such that a problem at one plant could lead to cascading failures at adjacent facilities particularly during a nuclear emergency - or that siting multiple reactors at a quake/tsunami prone area should not be done in the future because it could lead to too many power plants being thrown offline in a disaster event - disrupting the power grid.

439 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:32:58am

re: #430 RogueOne

Like this:

Chávez Tries to Rally Venezuela Against a New Enemy
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I'm guessing you're a boob man.//

440 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:33:48am

MSNBC just reported that the NYSE invoked Rule 48. I know what Rule 34 is but I'm unfamiliar with 48. Doesn't sound good though.

441 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:34:12am

re: #439 rwdflynavy

I'm guessing you're a boob, man.//

You forgot the comma, man.

442 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:34:31am

re: #439 rwdflynavy

I'm guessing you're a boob man.//

I've been ignoring Chavez but now he's getting dangerously crazy. The UN has to do something!

443 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:34:45am

re: #440 RogueOne

MSNBC just reported that the NYSE invoked Rule 48. I know what Rule 34 is but I'm unfamiliar with 48. Doesn't sound good though.

Rule 48 halts the requirement for market makers to send pre-opening indications, or bid and ask prices created in auctions used to determine a stock’s opening price. The regulation is used only when the “potential for extremely high market-wide volatility would likely impair floor-wide operations at the exchange,” NYSE Euronext said.

444 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:34:55am

re: #442 RogueOne

I've been ignoring Chavez but now he's getting dangerously crazy. The UN has to do something!


I agree! Enough is enough!!!//

445 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:35:11am
446 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:35:12am

re: #436 Varek Raith

The carriers Washington and Reagan are equipped to deal with nuclear emergencies - they are nuclear powered after all, and they've got nuclear engineers and experts on board to deal with potential radiation problems. The rest of the Japanese people? Not so much, and the radiation exposures are extremely troublesome - and the problems seem to be overwhelming TEPCO and the government's ability to deal with them. Too many problems happening at once - dividing attention of those who need to get the situation under control. And just when you think one situation is calming down, a problem at the reactor next door takes your breath away - leaks, explosions, fires, etc.

447 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:35:27am

Greetings Lizards.

First day back from a wonderful 10 days of vacation.
My wife and I took a 7 day cruise onboard the NCL Pearl with stops in the U.S. and British Virgin Islands. Great time. Then we spent two days at Miami South Beach, stayed at the Avalon.
I can honestly say that we had some of the most wonderful meals, epic water and beaches and had some wild island tours on St. Thomas and Tortola.
The only "incident" was being called 'an old man' by a drunk spring break frat bum.... so I challenged him to a drinking game at which he failed to answer the bell after the 5th shot.... heh.

Two sobering experiences;
The first was spending time at the poker table with a Navy Seal Officer on vacation with his family after 10 months in Afghan. Great guy.... and he received an email on the last evening to check back in for new orders upon docking. His guess was Japan....
And the other experience was seeing the Japanese on the ship on vacation knowing the suffering occurring back home. Very sad ending of the cruise for them...

448 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:36:38am

re: #443 Varek Raith

I miss last week when all we had to worry about was "Winning!" and Newts wrapping a flag around his infidelity. The good ol' days.

449 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:38:35am

re: #446 lawhawk

I was reading an update on the queens miranda debate:
[Link: blog.simplejustice.us...]

Have you been following any of it?

450 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:38:53am

Precious metals are falling this morning...
Sell Gold!
//

451 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:39:18am

re: #438 lawhawk

Left out the link for how to help. Here.

452 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:39:46am

re: #450 Rightwingconspirator

Precious metals are falling this morning...
Sell Gold!
//


How are non-hybrid seeds doing?//

453 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:40:56am

re: #449 RogueOne

Not in the slightest. That's the first I've heard of that situation, though my focus has been elsewhere of late.

454 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:42:14am

re: #453 lawhawk

In case you're interested, from Nov of last year:
Miranda Warnings, Queens Version
[Link: blog.simplejustice.us...]

455 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:43:02am

re: #450 Rightwingconspirator

Precious metals are falling this morning...
Sell Gold!
//

Buy media stock! Why should Murdoch be the only one to profit off of the disaster in Japan?

456 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:43:04am

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday 50 Cent was Idiot of the Day for tweeting stupid jokes about the earthquake & tsunami, today Gilbert Gottfried earns it:

Aflac fires duck voice Gottfried over tweets

457 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:43:48am

re: #450 Rightwingconspirator

Precious metals are falling this morning...
Sell Gold!
//

HOW'S THE BOTTLECAP MARKET?!?!

458 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:45:53am

re: #456 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards!

Yesterday 50 Cent was Idiot of the Day for tweeting stupid jokes about the earthquake & tsunami, today Gilbert Gottfried earns it:

Aflac fires duck voice Gottfried over tweets

They didn't mind the aristocrats but a flood joke crosses the line?

459 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:47:07am

re: #440 RogueOne

MSNBC just reported that the NYSE invoked Rule 48. I know what Rule 34 is but I'm unfamiliar with 48. Doesn't sound good though.



New York Stock Exchange Invokes Rule To Speed Market's Open

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--The New York Stock Exchange invoked a rule designed to streamline the stock market's open on Tuesday as traders braced for a bumpy trading session.

NYSE Euronext (NYX) invoked "Rule 48" for its New York Stock Exchange and NYSE Amex cash markets half an hour before the market's open on Tuesday as the specter of a nuclear power crisis in Japan and heightened radiation risks sent global markets plunging. Dow Jones Industrial Average futures recently were down 227 points at 11699 in premarket trading.

Invoking Rule 48 enables the stock exchange's designated market makers to forgo showing premarket prices before the opening bell in an effort to make the opening faster and easier. The exchange employed the rule several times during the winter's heavy snowstorms that disrupted transit in New York City and other major cities.

The exchange invoked the rule only twice in 2009. NYSE has no specific threshold for deploying the rule, but tends to use it when stock futures are moving sharply.

460 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:50:25am

This won't end well.

Bahrain Declares State Of Emergency After Saudi Soldier Shot Dead
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

A security official in Saudi Arabia said a Saudi sergeant was shot and killed by a protester on Tuesday in Bahrain's capital, Manama. No other details were immediately given on the death of the soldier, identified as Sgt. Ahmed al-Raddadi.

461 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:51:05am

re: #458 RogueOne

They didn't mind the aristocrats but a flood joke crosses the line?

Japan is Aflac's biggest customer. They were not amused.

462 Political Atheist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:51:22am

Funny or just strange?
[Link: www.wired.com...]

"Tired of the same old women’s magazine beauty tips? Is the anti-feminist bent of the supermarket glossies just not extreme enough? Al-Shamika is ready to fill the women-centric media space between Cosmopolitan and, uh, Technical Mujahid.

Earlier this month, Al-Fajr, a jihadist media distribution outlet, published the first issue of Al-Shamikha (“the majestic woman”), an online magazine marketed exclusively toward a female jihadi audience. Welcome to the she-had."

463 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:51:45am

re: #438 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.

[snip by Kirk]

Yet, even before all the facts are in, Germany is shutting down all its pre-1980 reactors, in what appears to be a political decision.

[snip by Kirk]

You appear to be dismissive of this. I think it's smart.

It gives Merkel strong credibility when she says other plants - newer plants - are fine and do not need closed.

That's important if you remember that Germany has a strong green/anti-nuclear sentiment. Never forget that the political will -- the will of the people -- is extremely powerful. Good political tactics are those which dilute opposition and strengthen support.

464 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:53:31am

Japan radioactivity could enter food chain: experts

SINGAPORE — Radioactive materials spewed into the air by Japan’s earthquake-crippled nuclear plant may contaminate food and water resources, with children and unborn babies most at risk of possibly developing cancer.

Experts said exposure to radioactive materials has the potential to cause various kinds of cancers and abnormalities to fetuses, with higher levels of radiation seen as more dangerous.

But they said they needed more accurate measurements for the level of radioactivity in Japan, and the region, to give a proper risk assessment.

Sad, tragic, unbelievable...

465 darthstar  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:53:37am

re: #461 Alouette

Japan is Aflac's biggest customer. They were not amused.

So it was a financial, and not an ethical, decision. My faith in the insurance industry is restored.

466 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:54:40am

re: #461 Alouette

Japan is Aflac's biggest customer. They were not amused.

He's their employee and they can fire him for whatever reason they choose but I find it mildly amusing that they hire a guy who's known for incredibly tasteless comedy and then get upset when he says something tasteless.

467 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:55:07am

re: #465 darthstar

So it was a financial, and not an ethical, decision. My faith in the insurance industry is restored.

If he had joked about Haiti this would've probably gone under the radar.

468 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:58:12am

re: #466 RogueOne

He's their employee and they can fire him for whatever reason they choose but I find it mildly amusing that they hire a guy who's known for incredibly tasteless comedy and then get upset when he says something tasteless.

Do we know if the duck was also fired?

469 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:58:16am

re: #467 Varek Raith

If he had joked about Haiti this would've probably gone under the radar.

Here's another one losing their job because of dumb remarks about Japan. What is wrong with these people?

Mississippi Gov. Barbour aide resigns over Japan remark


BILOXI, Miss (Reuters) – The press secretary to Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour, a possible candidate for the Republican presidential nomination in 2012, abruptly resigned on Monday after media reports of off-color jokes about Japan in an email.

Dan Turner resigned just hours after media reports of his comments in a daily email sent on Friday to the governor's staff and other political allies.

According to a recipient of the email, Turner joked that on that day in 1968, "Otis Redding posthumously received a gold record for his single, '(Sittin' on) The Dock of the Bay.'" The email added: "Not a big hit in Japan right now."

The email also said: "In 1993: Janet Reno was unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate to become the first female attorney general. (It took longer to confirm her gender than to confirm her law license.)"

470 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:58:29am

re: #468 rwdflynavy

Do we know if the duck was also fired?

I eated the duck.

471 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:58:35am

Celebrity warfare:

Bon Jovi: 'Steve Jobs Is Personally Responsible For Killing The Music Business'
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

and

4Chan Founder: Mark Zuckerberg Is 'Totally Wrong' About Anonymity
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

472 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:58:56am

re: #469 NJDhockeyfan

Here's another one losing their job because of dumb remarks about Japan. What is wrong with these people?

Mississippi Gov. Barbour aide resigns over Japan remark

Oy, people are dumb.
:/

473 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:58:57am
474 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:59:01am

re: #468 rwdflynavy

Do we know if the duck was also fired?

No, it was broiled with onions & carrots.

475 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 6:59:53am

re: #474 NJDhockeyfan

No, it was broiled with onions & carrots.

I prefer Peking style myself.

476 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:04:10am

re: #440 RogueOne

MSNBC just reported that the NYSE invoked Rule 48. I know what Rule 34 is but I'm unfamiliar with 48. Doesn't sound good though.

It's 14 rules worse!!

477 Lidane  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:04:44am

BTW, speaking of the 4chan founder, if anyone is interested, Ogilvy Notes set up camp at SXSW and has visual representations of a lot of the major speeches that have happened, including his keynote:

[Link: ogilvynotes.com...]

They're still in the process of putting up the final graphics, but they're a good overview of the stuff that's been covered.

478 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:04:49am

Lets see, we have a nuclear meltdown, multiple wars and rebellions, mini-invasions, a possible stock market crash, steve jobs destroying the music industry, silicone poisoning, and urine soaked eggs....all signs of the end times. Someone get a chalk board and we'll tie all this together.

479 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:07:18am

re: #478 RogueOne

No need for chalkboard. It's the jooos! ///neo nazis
No need for chalkboard. It's the marxists /// beck
No need for chalkboard. It's the Neo Imperium // mafia wars

480 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:07:42am

re: #478 RogueOne

music industry destroyed itself :D

481 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:08:22am

re: #480 WindUpBird

music industry destroyed itself :D

I blame Bon Jovi.

482 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:09:02am

re: #480 WindUpBird

music industry destroyed itself :D

Also, Video killed the radio star.

483 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:09:15am

Market at -265

484 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:09:50am

re: #479 lawhawk

No need for chalkboard. It's the jooos! ///neo nazis
No need for chalkboard. It's the marxists /// beck
No need for chalkboard. It's the Neo Imperium // mafia wars

And when all else fails

Blame George Bush!

485 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:10:00am

re: #471 RogueOne

Celebrity warfare:

Bon Jovi: 'Steve Jobs Is Personally Responsible For Killing The Music Business'
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

and

4Chan Founder: Mark Zuckerberg Is 'Totally Wrong' About Anonymity
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

that anonymity conundrum is as old as the internet, I'm definitely on the side of Poole though, Facebook sucks and I'll have no part of it :D

486 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:10:27am

re: #482 rwdflynavy

Also, Video killed the radio star.

I was there! And then the internet killed the video star.

487 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:10:44am

re: #483 RogueOne

Effects of the nuclear emergencies in Japan - and recognition that the quake damaged supply chains for even unaffected companies that rely on Japanese sub-assemblies - like chips sourced from Japanese manufacturers.

488 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:11:23am

re: #484 sattv4u2

And when all else fails

Blame George Bush!

George Sr. pukes on the Japanese prime minister 20 years ago and then they have a massive earthquake/tsunami. I don't believe in coincidences.

489 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:11:24am

re: #481 RogueOne

I blame Bon Jovi.

It's actually the industry itself, it walked itself off a cliff and gave away artist development to the internet and indies

490 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:12:13am

re: #489 WindUpBird

It's actually the industry itself, it walked itself off a cliff and gave away artist development to the internet and indies

No, it was definately bon jovi. Bon Jovi and Enuff Z Enuff.

491 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:13:27am

re: #484 sattv4u2

And when all else fails

Blame George Bush Soros!

FTFY

492 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:14:06am

Magnitude 6.0 earthquake hits eastern Japan

A magnitude 6.0 earthquake shook eastern Japan on Tuesday, one of the most powerful aftershocks to hit the country since Friday's devastating earthquake and tsunami which killed at least 10,000 people, public broadcaster NHK said.

The quake could be felt in Tokyo where buildings swayed.

493 Lidane  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:14:51am

re: #489 WindUpBird

It's actually the industry itself, it walked itself off a cliff and gave away artist development to the internet and indies

There's a lot of truth to this. The industry was more concerned with consolidation, especially after the media deregulation of the 90's. They dismissed the internet as a fad and as something that wouldn't catch on, and found themselves rendered irrelevant because of it. Now they're trying to play catch-up and it's too late.

The music industry got into the mess they're in largely on their own.

494 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:16:23am

re: #491 Alouette

FTFY

re: #491 Alouette

And when all else fails

Blame George Bush Soros! Michaels

FTFY

ftfyftfm

(fixed that for you fixing that for me)

((we are, after all, talking about shitty music))

495 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:18:57am

re: #483 RogueOne

Market at -265

Fuck.

496 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:21:15am

re: #495 Killgore Trout

It will make a comeback. My personal concern is 3 months from now steel costs are going to go through the roof.

497 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:22:53am

Speaking of steel, I need to get some work accomplished. Enjoy the rest of the day folks.

498 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:23:15am

Good morning lizards. I just posted my first page and would welcome any thoughts you may have about it.

499 brennant  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:25:47am

Admittedly, I haven't looked, but did anyone post the live Tokyo geiger coutner?

500 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:29:01am

FYI - Verizon is now carrying NHK channel free of charge on its cable network through 3/17 in the NYC metro area (northern NJ). NHK is the Japanese national network and broadcasts are often in Japanese and English.

501 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:29:42am

re: #473 lawhawk

I am dismissive of this - where exactly is Germany getting all its power from when it shuts down that capacity?

Note first that the plants closing produce about 1/3 of the electricity that comes from nuclear plants. Since Nuclear energy is about 1/3 of Germany's total electrical production, that means they're cutting by a bit over 10%.

Second, note that by doing this Merkel can successfully counter those who want _all_ the nuclear plants shut down. That means she's sacrificing 10% short-term to prevent losing 33% long-term.

Now do I know how they're going to make up the difference? No. I'm not even certain they can. What I do know, however, is that it's a lot easier to make up a 10% deficit than a 33% deficit.

502 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:32:54am

This is right out of an Indian Jones movie...

Mayan crystal skull believed to have been owned by SS chief Heinrich Himmler discovered in Germany


A MYSTERIOUS crystal skull thought to have belonged to Hitler’s SS chief Heinrich Himmler has been discovered in Germany.

The artefact, found resting on a beam beneath the roof of a house in a Bavarian village, has excited treasure hunters.

They believe it may be part of a larger trove of bounty once owned by the most sinister man in Nazi Germany.

Indications are that it was part of a series worshipped by ancient Mayan cultures in what is now Mexico – where, legend has it, the skulls are vital to stop the world ending next year.

Himmler, who oversaw the extermination of Jews, was spellbound by myths and legends until his suicide after being captured by the British.

504 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:34:01am

re: #503 Killgore Trout

IDF seizes freighter of Iranian weapons headed to Gaza

The UN will blast Israel over this.

505 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:34:48am

re: #502 NJDhockeyfan

This is right out of an Indian Jones movie...

Mayan crystal skull believed to have been owned by SS chief Heinrich Himmler discovered in Germany

Who is Indian Jones?//

506 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:34:55am

re: #503 Killgore Trout

IDF seizes freighter of Iranian weapons headed to Gaza

"The port of Lattakai is the same port where two Iranian war ships docked in February on their way to the Suez Canal. At the time, IDF officials raised concerns of the possibility that they were carrying weapons intended for terrorists organizations, but there was no confirmation."

BINGO

507 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:35:35am

re: #498 prononymous

Good morning lizards. I just posted my first page and would welcome any thoughts you may have about it.

Bravo! Very Well done

508 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:35:53am

re: #505 rwdflynavy

Who is Indian Jones?//

Indiana's brother?

509 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:36:15am

re: #498 prononymous

Good morning lizards. I just posted my first page and would welcome any thoughts you may have about it.

GREAT page, photos- well done! It's up in "featured pages" now. Good starting point for a discussion for those of you knowledgeable enough to engage!

510 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:36:46am

re: #506 Ericus58

"The port of Lattakai is the same port where two Iranian war ships docked in February on their way to the Suez Canal. At the time, IDF officials raised concerns of the possibility that they were carrying weapons intended for terrorists organizations, but there was no confirmation."

BINGO

Confirmed.

511 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:37:43am

re: #505 rwdflynavy

Who is Indian Jones?//

The cat. (Indiana was the dog)

512 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:38:45am

re: #508 NJDhockeyfan

Indiana's brother?

My 7 year old is enjoying the Veggie Tales Minnesota Cuke cartoons, which are loosely based on Indiana Jones. You know, if Indiana Jones was a cucumber.

513 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:40:16am

re: #503 Killgore Trout

IDF seizes freighter of Iranian weapons headed to Gaza

An initial inspection of the cargo revealed the ship was carrying weapons. The exact amount is to be determined.

The crew, questioned by the Navy Commando, was not aware that the cargo contained weaponry.

"Where did those guns come from? I don't know how all of it got on the ship, I swear!"

514 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:43:00am

“The source of the weapons is Iran, which is trying to arm Gaza”
~ Benjamin Netanyahu

515 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:43:59am

re: #509 reine.de.tout

GREAT page, photos- well done! It's up in "featured pages" now. Good starting point for a discussion for those of you knowledgeable enough to engage!

If you don't feel knowledgeable enough about the technology, IMO, that is the perfect time to engage. I'm just a casual observer (except perhaps in regards to biomass), but am insanely curious. Please ask any questions you might have, we all might find out something new in the process! :D

516 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:44:32am

re: #505 rwdflynavy

Who is Indian Jones?//

Bollywood knockoff.

517 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:45:52am

re: #506 Ericus58

"The port of Lattakai is the same port where two Iranian war ships docked in February on their way to the Suez Canal. At the time, IDF officials raised concerns of the possibility that they were carrying weapons intended for terrorists organizations, but there was no confirmation."

BINGO

It's sad that the Egyptians use their first opportunity of freedom to allow tons of weapons into Gaza. I'm sure a lot of it is going through the tunnels too.

518 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:47:20am

30-km no-fly zone declared for stricken Japan nuke plant, atomic watchdog says

That's going to seriously hamper relief efforts as well. Radiation levels must have increased in a serious fashion for them to declare a no-fly zone.

519 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:47:21am

re: #502 NJDhockeyfan

This is right out of an Indian Jones movie...

Mayan crystal skull believed to have been owned by SS chief Heinrich Himmler discovered in Germany

In the future please be a little more culturally sensitive. Native American Jones would be appropriate.

520 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:48:26am

re: #519 rwdflynavy

In the future please be a little more culturally sensitive. Native American Jones would be appropriate.

Not if he is from Mumbai.

521 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:51:07am

re: #517 Killgore Trout

It's sad that the Egyptians use their first opportunity of freedom to allow tons of weapons into Gaza. I'm sure a lot of it is going through the tunnels too.

huh? Lattakai is in Syria. What's Egypt got to do with it?

522 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:52:16am

re: #521 kirkspencer

huh? Lattakai is in Syria. What's Egypt got to do with it?

Egypt kinda controls the Suez canal?//

523 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:53:25am

re: #521 kirkspencer

huh? Lattakai is in Syria. What's Egypt got to do with it?

Egypt was the destination logged. The weapons would have been unloaded there, and smuggled over the Egypt/Gaza border.

524 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:53:42am

re: #519 rwdflynavy

In the future please be a little more culturally sensitive. Native American Jones would be appropriate.

Well let's call him by his real name then, Dances with Whips.

525 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:56:50am

So, while you've got asshats like Gilbert Godfrey saying inappropriate comments and getting himself fired from a lucrative gig as AFLAC spokesgoose, entertainers like Mark Hoppus of Blink 182 have gone and found ways to donate to relief efforts. They're auctioning off a bunch of Blink 182 items, and one of them is now fetching over $20,000. His other listings are here.

526 avanti  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:57:16am

How to handle a bully:

527 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:58:19am

Photos released by Israeli consulate show weapons cache from intercepted freighter.

528 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:59:00am

The path of the tsunami (video)
Warning: Disturbing video
Looks like people trying to help elderly or sick people flee the tsunami. I don't think they make it, I couldn't watch to the end.

529 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:59:28am

re: #523 Buck

Egypt was the destination logged. The weapons would have been unloaded there, and smuggled over the Egypt/Gaza border.

No. From the article:

The ship set sail Monday night from the port of Lattakai in Syria and from there it traveled to Turkey. There, it was supposed to unload the weapons, which would travel by land to Gaza. The IDF's assessment is that the weapons did not originate in Turkey, but that the containers were unloaded there and transferred onto the Victoria.

and for re: #522 rwdflynavy

Egypt had no legal reason to prevent the Iranian ships from transiting the Suez, nor did it have legal reason to board or inspect them. The law regarding transits of such narrow straits, and in particular the suez and panama canals, is very well established.

530 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 7:59:35am

re: #523 Buck

Egypt was the destination logged. The weapons would have been unloaded there, and smuggled over the Egypt/Gaza border.


Now now

You know as well as I do
The only smuggling going on between Egypt and the Gaza is for "humanitarian purposes" which the Israelis withhold from the Palestinians

531 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:00:51am

re: #527 lawhawk

Photos released by Israeli consulate show weapons cache from intercepted freighter.

Looks like they hid the weapons with bags of corn or flour.

532 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:01:00am

re: #528 Killgore Trout

Folks manning the warning sirens and speaker systems telling residents of the impending tsunami have gone missing as well.

"People received the warning through the city speakers that are set up outside. They heard, 'A big tsunami is coming. You need to evacuate.' Shortly after, they heard, 'Run!'

"The announcement was cut off and the people never heard from the speakers, or the people who announced it, again. The few people assigned to announce it were at the disaster prevention center, and they went missing.

"They sacrificed their lives to send everyone else to a safer place. They gave priority to others' safety. The disaster prevention center is now under the mud brought on by the tsunami."

533 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:02:15am

re: #531 Killgore Trout

Yeah, nothing like your daily recommended allowance of fiber, and HE 60mm mortars. /

534 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:02:30am

re: #531 Killgore Trout

Looks like they hid the weapons with bags of corn or flour.

SEE!!!

What did I just say!

Those awful Israelis, stealing much needed corn and flour from!!!

535 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:03:24am

re: #534 sattv4u2

SEE!!!

What did I just say!

Those awful Israelis, stealing much needed corn and flour from the region!!!!!


pimf

536 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:04:36am

re: #525 lawhawk

So, while you've got asshats like Gilbert Godfrey saying inappropriate comments and getting himself fired from a lucrative gig as AFLAC spokesgoose, entertainers like Mark Hoppus of Blink 182 have gone and found ways to donate to relief efforts. They're auctioning off a bunch of Blink 182 items, and one of them is now fetching over $20,000. His other listings are here.

Some other celebrities are helping too.

Simon Cowell Is Planning Japan Relief Single With Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, Katy Perry, and More

The pop music community has started to mobilize in the wake of the tragedy of Japan's devastating earthquake and tsunami. Simon Cowell announced via Twitter yesterday that he is putting together a Japan relief single that will include contributions from Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, and Katy Perry. This morning he added more names including Jessie J and X Factor alumni JLS, Olly Murs, One Direction, and Cher Lloyd. In the wake of last year's Haiti earthquake, Simon Cowell spearheaded the charity single "Everybody Hurts" which sold nearly 500,000 copies in its first week of release.

Elsewhere, major pop stars have been busy in the efforts to aid Japan. Lady Gaga is selling a Japan prayer bracelet with all proceeds going to earthquake relief efforts. A wide range of stars are encouraging donations to the Red Cross through their Twitter sites. Music For Relief is mobilizing and already has a tsunami relief t-shirt designed by Mike Shinoda of Linkin Park available to encourage donations. Download to Donate makes new music available for free download with the receipt of contributions to aid Japan relief. Watch for more news as the music community once again mobilizes in the face of tragedy.

537 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:05:16am

re: #529 kirkspencer

No. From the article:

I can find 10 articles that say otherwise. In fact the ship had already left Turkey.

I don't think you can travel by land from Turkey to Gaza without going to Egypt, and it would be a really long way.

538 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:05:40am

re: #528 Killgore Trout

The path of the tsunami (video)
Warning: Disturbing video
Looks like people trying to help elderly or sick people flee the tsunami. I don't think they make it, I couldn't watch to the end.

I didn't see anyone getting swept away . . . but it looks like they moved JUST in the nick of time - I'm going to think positive and believe they got away from the water . . .

539 KingKenrod  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:07:48am

Latest from IAEA (their website seems to be struggling):

Japanese Earthquake Update (15 March 14:10 UTC)

The IAEA Incident and Emergency Centre (IEC) continues to monitor the status of the nuclear power plants in Japan that were affected by the devastating earthquake and consequent tsunami.

All units at the Fukushima Daini, Onagawa, and Tokai nuclear power plants are in a safe and stable condition (i.e. cold shutdown).

The IAEA remains concerned over the status of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, where sea water injections to cool the reactors in units 1, 2 and 3 are continuing. Attempts to return power to the entire Daiichi site are also continuing.

After explosions at both units 1 and 3, the primary containment vessels of both units are reported to be intact. However, the explosion that occurred at 04:25 UTC on 14 March at the Fukushima Daiichi unit 2 may have affected the integrity of its primary containment vessel. All three explosions were due to an accumulation of hydrogen gas. A fire at unit 4 occurred on 14 March 23:54 UTC and lasted two hours. The IAEA is seeking clarification on the nature and consequences of the fire. The IAEA continues to seek details about the status of all workers, reactors and spent fuel at the Fukushima Daiichi plant.

An evacuation of the population from the 20-kilometre zone around Fukushima Daiichi is in effect. The Japanese have advised that people within a 30-km radius shall take shelter indoors. Iodine tablets have been distributed to evacuation centres but no decision has yet been taken on their administration.

A 30-kilometre no-fly zone has been established around the Daiichi plant. Normal civil aviation beyond this zone remains uninterrupted. The Japan Coast Guard established evacuation warnings within 10 kilometres of Fukushima Daiichi and 3 kilometres of Fukushima Daini.

The IAEA and several other UN organizations held a meeting at 11:00 UTC today to discuss recent developments and coordinate activities related to consequences of the earthquake and tsunami. The meeting was called under the framework of the Joint Radiation Emergency Management Plan of the International Organizations, and this group expects to work closely together in the days ahead.

540 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:12:28am

re: #538 reine.de.tout

I didn't see anyone getting swept away . . . but it looks like they moved JUST in the nick of time - I'm going to think positive and believe they got away from the water . . .

ok, It didn't look hopeful there for a while and I just couldn't bring myself to watch the whole thing. It's still too early here.

541 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:14:35am

re: #534 sattv4u2

SEE!!!

What did I just say!

Those awful Israelis, stealing much needed corn and flour from!!!

Those damn Israelis to need go back to where they came from!
~ Helen Thomas

542 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:14:42am

What's amazing is there have been no reports of looting, and people are lining up in queues to receive food and water, very orderly, no pushing and shoving.

543 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:15:48am

re: #536 NJDhockeyfan

Some other celebrities are helping too.

Simon Cowell Is Planning Japan Relief Single With Justin Bieber, Britney Spears, Katy Perry, and More

Haven't they already suffered enough???

544 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:16:41am

re: #543 negativ

Haven't they already suffered enough???

That made me laugh!

545 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:16:55am

re: #542 Alouette

What's amazing is there have been no reports of looting, and people are lining up in queues to receive food and water, very orderly, no pushing and shoving.

A little different that what happened in New Orleans.

546 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:18:07am

What happened in New Orleans?

547 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:20:49am

re: #545 NJDhockeyfan

While the US does pretty well with disaster management, for the Japanese it's always been absolutely critical for their government to be excellent at it. Given volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc., Japan's main threat has always been the natural world.

A friend of mine in Tokyo said that, embarrassingly, very few people in his office had the emergency kit that they're supposed to have-- either in the office, or at home. He said that citizens have gotten kind of lax about providing for themselves, but it's a good thing the government is so damn proficient at disaster management.

Part of that is because their self-defense force is relatively small, so a lot of the Japanese who want to be brave and/or patriotic join the first responders and emergency management teams.

548 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:21:06am

re: #546 BigPapa

What happened in New Orleans?

Besides the looting, robbery, murders, and shooting guns at the police? Not much.

549 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:21:22am

This will go a long way towards smoothing everything over in Wisconsin:

From: Sen.Fitzgerald
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2011 3:52 PM
To: *Legislative Senate Republicans
Subject: Senate Democrat voting privileges in standing committees

Dear Members,

With the return of the Senate Democrats this weekend, questions have arisen regarding Democrat members’ participation in Senate standing committee public hearings and executive sessions.

Please note that all 14 Democrat senators are still in contempt of the Senate. Therefore, when taking roll call votes on amendments and bills during executive sessions, Senate Democrats’ votes will not be reflected in the Records of Committee Proceedings or the Senate Journal. They are free to attend hearings, listen to testimony, debate legislation, introduce amendments, and cast votes to signal their support/opposition, but those votes will not count, and will not be recorded.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact my office.

Thank you,

Scott Fitzgerald
Senate Majority Leader
13th Senate District

550 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:23:46am

re: #537 Buck

I can find 10 articles that say otherwise. In fact the ship had already left Turkey.

I don't think you can travel by land from Turkey to Gaza without going to Egypt, and it would be a really long way.

Cool. I withdraw, in part.

In part because as I showed, the original article said the destination was Turkey with an origin in Syria; that was the basis of my objection.

551 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:24:44am

The poor showing of law enforcement during Hurricane Katrina is going to be a black eye for them for a long, long time.

552 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:25:33am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

Besides the looting, robbery, murders, and shooting guns at the police? Not much.

How much did that really happen? I want to be sure because the only authorities on the matter seem to be AM radio wingnuts who were parroting this incessantly yesterday, and now you say it today.

So I just want to be sure how much it actually happened and not base it on rumor and urban legend.

553 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:26:56am

More quakes continue rattling Japan. A 6.1 hit south of Tokyo, but thus far no reports of additional damage.

554 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:27:25am

re: #552 BigPapa

How much did that really happen? I want to be sure because the only authorities on the matter seem to be AM radio wingnuts who were parroting this incessantly yesterday, and now you say it today.

So I just want to be sure how much it actually happened and not base it on rumor and urban legend.

It happened. It was in all the newspapers & TV news. Did you miss something?

555 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:28:07am

re: #550 kirkspencer

Cool. I withdraw, in part.

In part because as I showed, the original article said the destination was Turkey with an origin in Syria; that was the basis of my objection.

Right, but if the person who wrote the article was at all familiar with the geography.... there really is no way to go by land to avoid Egypt.

556 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:28:11am

re: #553 lawhawk

More quakes continue rattling Japan. A 6.1 hit south of Tokyo, but thus far no reports of additional damage.

Seriously, is there anything left to damage in that part of Japan?

557 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:28:36am

Gotta go to work. Later friends!

558 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:28:55am

re: #552 BigPapa

It was mostly media hype, like most things.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

559 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:29:08am

re: #547 Obdicut

Part of that is because their self-defense force is relatively small, so a lot of the Japanese who want to be brave and/or patriotic join the first responders and emergency management teams.

Plus, being Japan, it means robots will somehow be involved.

560 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:29:55am

re: #556 NJDhockeyfan

Seriously, is there anything left to damage in that part of Japan?

Because of Japan's strict building codes, Tokyo is not heavily damaged.

Regulation at work.

561 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:32:53am

re: #554 NJDhockeyfan

It happened. It was in all the newspapers & TV news. Did you miss something?

I'm asking how much did it really happen.

I'd like to know before I take what you say seriously (which is exactly the same line I heard from right wing yappers yesterday).

562 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:33:01am

A funny response to Asians in the Library - UCLA Girl (Alexandra Wallace) going wild on Asians

563 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:36:04am

re: #556 NJDhockeyfan

The quake and tsunami hit the NE coast of Japan - the area 100-200 miles north of Tokyo. This particular aftershock was SW of Tokyo.

564 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:36:46am
At first, the doors held. Then water began to pour through the seams and flow into the room. In a panic to reach the roof, younger residents began pushing and yelling, “Hurry!” and “Out of the way!” They climbed over those who were not moving, or elbowed them aside.

“I couldn’t believe it,” Mr. Saga said. “They were even shoving old people out of the way. The old people couldn’t save themselves.”

He added, “People didn’t care about others.”

Then the doors burst open, and the water rushed in. It was quickly waist level. Mr. Saga saw one older woman, without the strength or will to stand, sitting in water that rose to her nose. He said he rushed behind her, grabbed her under the arms and hoisted her up the stairs. Another person on the stairs grabbed her and lifted her up to another person. The men formed a human chain, lifting the older residents and some children to the top.

For elderly Japanese, destruction reminds them of WW2.

565 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:38:42am

OT:

I am looking for a contractor and a property manager in the Los Angeles area.

I own two houses in Eagle Rock California and find myself in need of someone to finish the remodeling of one the houses. Basic stuff.

There is a longer term opportunity if the same person can do a small amount of property management stuff. Collect rent, occasionally find new tenants...

I am planning to go to LA near the end of the month.

My nick should be blue, so you can email me if you are interested, or know someone you can recommend.

566 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:49:27am

re: #565 Buck

OT:

I am looking for a contractor and a property manager in the Los Angeles area.

I own two houses in Eagle Rock California and find myself in need of someone to finish the remodeling of one the houses. Basic stuff.

There is a longer term opportunity if the same person can do a small amount of property management stuff. Collect rent, occasionally find new tenants...

I am planning to go to LA near the end of the month.

My nick should be blue, so you can email me if you are interested, or know someone you can recommend.

Is it ok if the contractor is "left" handed?

567 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:52:17am

re: #555 Buck

Right, but if the person who wrote the article was at all familiar with the geography... there really is no way to go by land to avoid Egypt.

True, IF they were headed for Gaza. Turkey does connect to some other locations that have a burning desire for weaponry, either direct by land or as the gateway to the Black Sea.

Destination Turkey, alleged customer Hamas in Gaza? Made no sense. When the destination is a fact and the customer is an allegation I tend to assume the allegation is the questionable thing.

568 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 8:52:46am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Is it ok if the contractor is "left" handed?

Of course. The former certainly was.

569 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:02:56am

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Is it ok if the contractor is "left" handed?

Of course

Otherwise, he'd be taken to court for discriminatory hiring pratices

570 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:04:43am

re: #569 sattv4u2

Of course

Otherwise, he'd be taken to court for discriminatory hiring pratices

Walter was just kidding me...as I am one of the LGF token conservatives, placing a help wanted ad here would get a left of center result.

However I feel like I killed the thread.....Yikes...

571 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:04:52am

re: #567 kirkspencer

True, IF they were headed for Gaza. Turkey does connect to some other locations that have a burning desire for weaponry, either direct by land or as the gateway to the Black Sea.

Destination Turkey, alleged customer Hamas in Gaza? Made no sense. When the destination is a fact and the customer is an allegation I tend to assume the allegation is the questionable thing.

So then you must think that Turkey, being the destination, must be the "customer"

So tell me, why would Turkey be buying arms from Syria?

572 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:09:38am

re: #570 Buck

Walter was just kidding me...as I am one of the LGF token conservatives, placing a help wanted ad here would get a left of center result.

However I feel like I killed the thread...Yikes...

I didn't think many conservatives "toke"

I mean,, I USED too, but that was back in my youth when I was a knoweverythingcollegeliberal

573 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:12:00am

re: #571 sattv4u2

So then you must think that Turkey, being the destination, must be the "customer"

So tell me, why would Turkey be buying arms from Syria?

Nice job of not only misreading but not reading my whole statement.

If Turkey was the destination my suspicion would have been it was a trans-shipment point. Non-Turkish agents with a desire for clandestine arms in the region include but are not limited to the Chechnyans, Kurdish PKK, various heroin transporters,...

Turkey has plenty of weapons thank you very much. The Bosporus strait, on the other hand, is a gateway to a lot of customers.

574 Flounder  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:12:26am

re: #572 sattv4u2

I never inhaled myself...

575 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:15:03am

re: #574 Shropshire_Slasher

I will never understand why Clinton didn't just say "It was the 60's... EVERYBODY smoked pot". I mean, it's not like anyone is going to buy that lame dodge anyway.

576 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:16:23am

re: #575 Fozzie Bear

It showed the appropriate amount of shame. I mean, not actually appropriate, but, for whatever fucked up reason, the amount of shame our society demands people who've used a extremely mild drug show.

577 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:16:31am

re: #548 NJDhockeyfan

Besides the looting, robbery, murders, and shooting guns at the police? Not much.

You left out the police shooting/killing the residents.
And the fact the residents were suffering from an abandonment of the city/state leadership on all fronts and had to fend for themselves for days. Not to mention FEMA failures.

578 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:19:34am

re: #576 Obdicut

Yeah I guess i'll never get it. Having been a pot smoker much of my adult life, it just doesn't make sense to me. I see pot as a far milder inebriant than alcohol. I guess there are still a lot of people out there who fell for the bullshit the D.A.R.E. program fed them.

579 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:19:45am

re: #573 kirkspencer

Nice job of not only misreading but not reading my whole statement.

If Turkey was the destination my suspicion would have been it was a trans-shipment point. Non-Turkish agents with a desire for clandestine arms in the region include but are not limited to the Chechnyans, Kurdish PKK, various heroin transporters,...

Turkey has plenty of weapons thank you very much. The Bosporus strait, on the other hand, is a gateway to a lot of customers.


Including Hamas?

580 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:20:10am

re: #574 Shropshire_Slasher

I never inhaled myself...

Who inhaled for you?

581 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:20:29am

re: #577 reine.de.tout

You left out the police shooting/killing the residents.
And the fact the residents were suffering from an abandonment of the city/state leadership on all fronts and had to fend for themselves for days. Not to mention FEMA failures.

Sorry but those facts get in the way of pointing out that blacks looted and asians are all orderly and stuff. /

*sigh*

582 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:24:05am

morning all!

What's the news?

583 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:24:32am

re: #572 sattv4u2

I didn't think many conservatives "toke"

I mean,, I USED too, but that was back in my youth when I was a knoweverythingcollegeliberal

Half the smokers I know personally are conservatives. Just don't get that one guy started about how there are meat robots among us without souls.

re: #574 Shropshire_Slasher

I never inhaled myself...


At least shotgun with someone, don't let it go to waste like that.

584 Four More Tears  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:25:02am

re: #565 Buck

OT:

I am looking for a contractor and a property manager in the Los Angeles area.

I own two houses in Eagle Rock California and find myself in need of someone to finish the remodeling of one the houses. Basic stuff.

There is a longer term opportunity if the same person can do a small amount of property management stuff. Collect rent, occasionally find new tenants...

I am planning to go to LA near the end of the month.

My nick should be blue, so you can email me if you are interested, or know someone you can recommend.

Buck just created two more jobs than the Republican House...

585 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:25:29am

re: #578 Fozzie Bear

Yeah I guess i'll never get it. Having been a pot smoker much of my adult life, it just doesn't make sense to me. I see pot as a far milder inebriant than alcohol. I guess there are still a lot of people out there who fell for the bullshit the D.A.R.E. program fed them.

Pot rots your brain in a way alcohol doesn't.

I don't see it as milder at all.

I'm a former user.

586 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:25:49am

re: #581 prononymous

Sorry but those facts get in the way of pointing out that blacks looted and asians are all orderly and stuff. /

*sigh*

Meh. I don't see it having anything to do with race. The difference is poverty, and faith that others in the community will help you out. The nation that values "rugged individualism" above community is going to be the nation that turns on itself when disaster strikes. I don't think the outcome would have been much different in Boston, frankly.

587 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:26:28am

re: #585 ggt

Pot rots your brain in a way alcohol doesn't.

I don't see it as milder at all.

I'm a former user.

Obviously, you overindulged. Everything in moderation.

588 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:27:22am

re: #586 Fozzie Bear

Meh. I don't see it having anything to do with race.

I don't either. That's just the undercurrent with comments like that. If they aren't saying it explicitly.

589 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:27:29am

re: #585 ggt

Scientific studies don't back you up, though. Alcohol is worse for your health, mental and otherwise, long term. Though just one glass of alcohol per day is actually beneficial.

590 Four More Tears  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:27:46am

re: #586 Fozzie Bear

Meh. I don't see it having anything to do with race. The difference is poverty, and faith that others in the community will help you out. The nation that values "rugged individualism" above community is going to be the nation that turns on itself when disaster strikes. I don't think the outcome would have been much different in Boston, frankly.

There's a big culture difference here. We're talking about a place with a groping epidemic on the subways because you're looked down upon if you raise a stink over it.

591 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:27:50am

re: #587 Fozzie Bear

Obviously, you overindulged. Everything in moderation.

I think it's more a matter of "how often" than "how much".

daily use is not a good thing.

592 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:28:17am

re: #589 Obdicut

Scientific studies don't back you up, though. Alcohol is worse for your health, mental and otherwise, long term. Though just one glass of alcohol per day is actually beneficial.

links please

593 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:28:53am

re: #587 Fozzie Bear

Obviously, you overindulged. Everything in moderation.

Moderation in moderation? ;)

594 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:29:33am

re: #593 prononymous

Moderation in moderation? ;)


We'll have to ask a moderator

595 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:29:53am

re: #591 ggt

Again, medical science generally shows dose, rather than habituation, is the main problem. One glass of alcohol a day? Great! Seven drinks in one night? Not so great, even if you don't drink for the rest of the week.

Likewise, with pot, the only non-smoke-related stuff (as in, health problems caused by the fact you're smoking something) is related to very high amounts of usage, rather than frequency.

596 Flounder  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:29:56am

re: #585 ggt

I'm biased against all drugs, because I can't use responsibly, I don't use at all. There is a reason they call it dope. However, if it helps other people cope, have at it.

597 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:29:58am

re: #581 prononymous

Sorry but those facts get in the way of pointing out that blacks looted and asians are all orderly and stuff. /

*sigh*

I think that's where it meant to go in the first place.

There was some looting murders but it was way overblown. And now the wingtard AM radio jockeys are presenting the 'Japanese are so polite/patient/orderly unlike all that rabble in Katrina' meme.

There's a lot more to the subject, more than can encapsulated by the Right Wing Echo Chamber.

598 sattv4u2  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:29:58am

re: #589 Obdicut

Scientific studies don't back you up, though. Alcohol is worse for your health, mental and otherwise, long term. Though just one glass of alcohol per day is actually beneficial.

{hic} correct {hic}

599 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:31:10am

re: #595 Obdicut

Again, medical science generally shows dose, rather than habituation, is the main problem. One glass of alcohol a day? Great! Seven drinks in one night? Not so great, even if you don't drink for the rest of the week.

Likewise, with pot, the only non-smoke-related stuff (as in, health problems caused by the fact you're smoking something) is related to very high amounts of usage, rather than frequency.

again, I'd really like to see the links that disprove my experience that long-term pot use rots your brain.

600 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:31:28am

re: #586 Fozzie Bear

Meh. I don't see it having anything to do with race. The difference is poverty, and faith that others in the community will help you out. The nation that values "rugged individualism" above community is going to be the nation that turns on itself when disaster strikes. I don't think the outcome would have been much different in Boston, frankly.

If Boston were below sea level.//

601 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:31:44am

re: #596 Shropshire_Slasher

I'm biased against all drugs, because I can't use responsibly, I don't use at all. There is a reason they call it dope. However, if it helps other people cope, have at it.

It is the nature of addictive substances that humans can't use them resonsibly.

602 garhighway  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:31:53am

re: #599 ggt

again, I'd really like to see the links that disprove my experience that long-term pot use rots your brain.

I had some, but I forgot where I put them.

603 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:32:27am

re: #602 garhighway

I had some, but I forgot where I put them.

DUDE!

604 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:33:21am

re: #581 prononymous

Sorry but those facts get in the way of pointing out that blacks looted and asians are all orderly and stuff. /

*sigh*

Katrina looters:

Image: 41352174_e9c30b49a1.jpg
Image: large_hurricane-katrina-44.jpg
Image: AFTERMATH-OF-HURRICANE-KATRINA-IN-NEW-ORLEANS.jpg
Image: hurricane-katrina-1.jpg

and "deadhead" government employees at work

605 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:34:01am

re: #592 ggt

links please

Dude.

Okay:

[Link: www.physorg.com...]

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

[Link: www.drugpolicy.org...]

What evidence do you have that marijuana is more harmful than alcohol, please?

606 reine.de.tout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:34:11am

re: #604 reine.de.tout

Katrina looters:

[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...] 9a1.jpg
[Link: blog.silive.com...] cane-katrina-44.jpg
[Link: photos.upi.com...] 74b88644f/AFTERMATH-OF-HURRICANE-KATRINA-IN-NEW-OR LEANS.jpg
[Link: sachsmission.com...] /hurricane-katrina-1.jpg

and "deadhead" government employees at work

Argh. Y'all may have to copy/paste those links. Hell. I've got to run and can't fix it.

607 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:35:52am

re: #596 Shropshire_Slasher

I'm biased against all drugs, because I can't use responsibly, I don't use at all. There is a reason they call it dope. However, if it helps other people cope, have at it.

I have known a lot of people who regret their drug use, and I have never met anyone who regretted NOT using.

608 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:36:01am
609 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:36:05am

re: #605 Obdicut

Dude.

Okay:

[Link: www.physorg.com...]

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

[Link: www.drugpolicy.org...]

What evidence do you have that marijuana is more harmful than alcohol, please?

Personal experience is what I have. Plenty of loser ex-friends that can't hold a job or use their minds.

610 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:36:06am

re: #599 ggt

again, I'd really like to see the links that disprove my experience that long-term pot use rots your brain.

Well, I just listed them. Feel free to provide evidence that it does, other than your own 'experience'.

611 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:36:28am

re: #599 ggt

again, I'd really like to see the links that disprove my experience that long-term pot use rots your brain.

Obdicut supplied your evidence. And there is plenty more out there with a simple search.

For my part I'd simply suggest that your evidence is anecdotal. My own anecdotal evidence is quite dissimilar.

612 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:39:43am

re: #609 ggt

Did you ever stop to think that you'd gotten correlation and causation mixed up, perhaps?

A lot of people who crash their cars have been smoking marijuana. Does that mean you're more likely to crash your car when smoking marijuana? Well, no-- when you test a normal driver and have them get high (fun experiments for the win) they are not significantly more likely to get into a crash. Whereas if you take a normal driver and give them alcohol, they are.

So what's the correlation? It's that an irresponsible jackass is more likely to be driving while high. No causation, but correlation.

likewise, your loser friends may have smoked pot regularly, but that doesn't mean that pot rotted their brains. They may just be losers who were glad to use pot as a way to excuse their loser-dom.

613 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:40:47am

re: #605 Obdicut

Dude.

Okay:

[Link: www.physorg.com...]

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

[Link: www.drugpolicy.org...]

What evidence do you have that marijuana is more harmful than alcohol, please?

The first link did not address long-term use.

The second, I couldn't get to load after 4 tries.

The third referenced an article I'd like to read about long-term use.


If a person chooses to use weed on a Friday night after a long week, no, I don't think the effects would be any different that if that same person used alcohol.

My experience has been with recovering people, you can pick-out the pot users over the alcoholics by their brain function. Sorry, that's my experience.

I am talking daily use over decades.

I'm not sure there are any studies that have addressed that.

614 garhighway  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:41:16am

re: #604 reine.de.tout

Katrina looters:

[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...] 9a1.jpg
[Link: blog.silive.com...] cane-katrina-44.jpg
[Link: photos.upi.com...] 74b88644f/AFTERMATH-OF-HURRICANE-KATRINA-IN-NEW-OR LEANS.jpg
[Link: sachsmission.com...] /hurricane-katrina-1.jpg

and "deadhead" government employees at work

And if any of those government workers were unionized, then we need to track them down and retroactively fire them!

/

615 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:41:19am

re: #608 BigPapa

Depression causes masturbation

attempts at self-medication?

616 garhighway  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:41:48am

re: #613 ggt

The first link did not address long-term use.

The second, I couldn't get to load after 4 tries.

The third referenced an article I'd like to read about long-term use.

If a person chooses to use weed on a Friday night after a long week, no, I don't think the effects would be any different that if that same person used alcohol.

My experience has been with recovering people, you can pick-out the pot users over the alcoholics by their brain function. Sorry, that's my experience.

I am talking daily use over decades.

I'm not sure there are any studies that have addressed that.

At this stage in my life, I ASPIRE to daily use over decades.

617 garhighway  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:42:05am

re: #615 ggt

attempts at self-medication?

Different strokes...

618 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:42:18am

re: #613 ggt

If a person chooses to use weed on a Friday night after a long week, no, I don't think the effects would be any different that if that same person used alcohol.

How on earth can you not think two entirely different substances with entirely different mechanisms of action wouldn't have different results?

619 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:44:04am

I don't agree with what seems like a moratorium on marijuana research. It could provide valuable pharmacology.

I also think they so-called war on drugs is a farce. There is no reason to clog up the justice system for possession of a few joints. Pot users are not, generally, hard-core criminals.

committing a crime would just upset the high.

620 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:45:22am

re: #613 ggt

The first link did not address long-term use.

The second, I couldn't get to load after 4 tries.

The third referenced an article I'd like to read about long-term use.

If a person chooses to use weed on a Friday night after a long week, no, I don't think the effects would be any different that if that same person used alcohol.

My experience has been with recovering people, you can pick-out the pot users over the alcoholics by their brain function. Sorry, that's my experience.

I am talking daily use over decades.

I'm not sure there are any studies that have addressed that.

I have used off and on since I was 8. I am now over 30. I take mild offense at your implication that it has impaired my brain function. ;)

621 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:47:59am

re: #618 Obdicut

How on earth can you not think two entirely different substances with entirely different mechanisms of action wouldn't have different results?

Now, Obdicut. It's still morning for me. I'm only on my second cuppa.

I know you debate on specifics. Please stretch a little for me this morning.

Weekly use to "unwind" wouldn't produce very different long-term effects. Yes, the brain chemisty is affected differently by each drug. I was referring to my original point that long-term pot use rots the brain, not short term effects.

I don't think weekly use of either drug to relax would produce harmful effects for the user or society.

622 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:48:57am

re: #620 prononymous

I have used off and on since I was 8. I am now over 30. I take mild offense at your implication that it has impaired my brain function. ;)

Have you been sitting in your mommy's basement getting high and playing video games?

These are the people who are rotting their brains. Yes, the same would be true if they were drinking alcohol.

623 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:49:00am

A key difference between Chernobyl and the Fukushima incidents is that thus far, the radiation emissions have been limited at Fukushima (although still significant), while the Chernobyl explosion resulted in 30 tons of nuclear fuel - highly radioactive and still a threat - were thrown into the atmosphere and deposited all across the Ukraine, particularly in the exclusion area.

BTW - this April marks the 25th anniversary since Chernobyl.

624 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:49:38am

re: #620 prononymous

I have used off and on since I was 8. I am now over 30. I take mild offense at your implication that it has impaired my brain function. ;)

You're a lefty... need more proof :)

625 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:53:19am

re: #621 ggt

You haven't provided anything remotely resembling proof, or even a real contention, that long term pot use has any significant effect on the brain.

It goes against medical research in general to suggest that quantity of dosage is less important than continued use. The latter is, in general, only true for substances that build up in the body; cannabanoids do not. Marijuana, unlike alcohol, doesn't have a negative impact on any organs in the body, so secondary effects are also unlikely.

What is the mechanism of action of this harmful effect on the brain? What is happening? Because if this is just anecdotal "Dudes I know who've smoked pot all their life are losers", that's really not a proof, or even a suggestion, of any causation.

626 garhighway  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:54:33am

re: #623 lawhawk

A key difference between Chernobyl and the Fukushima incidents is that thus far, the radiation emissions have been limited at Fukushima (although still significant), while the Chernobyl explosion resulted in 30 tons of nuclear fuel - highly radioactive and still a threat - were thrown into the atmosphere and deposited all across the Ukraine, particularly in the exclusion area.

BTW - this April marks the 25th anniversary since Chernobyl.

The key words there are "thus far". It would be the best possible outcome if this didn't get worse. But a more likely outcome is a full meltdown and containment failure in at least one unit, with the molten core getting to the groundwater and causing hydrogen explosions and lots of emissions.

627 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:54:48am

TEPCO says that they've got the Fukushima Daini reactors in a safe shutdown mode.

The same can't be said for the other plant - Fukushima Daiichi, where there have been multiple explosions, fire, and radiation leaks as has been widely reported.

628 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:55:18am

I also have to wonder about the difference in legal use and illegal use.

regular pot smokers can't get gainful employment, alcohol users can.

I'm not sure a study could be conducted compare long-term use of the two.

Anyone using weed long-term has made a choice not to be part of society (i.e. work a full-time job).

It would be interesting to compare to a country in which weed were legal to see if daily use affected work-related parameters (sick days, coming in late, work performance) differently than alcohol users.

629 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:55:20am

re: #625 Obdicut

.......Marijuana, unlike alcohol, doesn't have a negative impact on any organs in the body, so secondary effects are also unlikely.......

Any organs? Smoking doesn't have any negative effect on the lungs?

630 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:55:40am

re: #622 ggt

Have you been sitting in your mommy's basement getting high and playing video games?

These are the people who are rotting their brains. Yes, the same would be true if they were drinking alcohol.


Ok, but would they be productive people if they didn't have access to alcohol, cannabis, or other drugs? There are plenty of losers that don't use drugs.

This is a fallacy of cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

re: #624 Walter L. Newton

You're a lefty... need more proof :)


I formulated my political position during an off phase. :)

631 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:55:49am

re: #625 Obdicut

You haven't provided anything remotely resembling proof, or even a real contention, that long term pot use has any significant effect on the brain.

It goes against medical research in general to suggest that quantity of dosage is less important than continued use. The latter is, in general, only true for substances that build up in the body; cannabanoids do not. Marijuana, unlike alcohol, doesn't have a negative impact on any organs in the body, so secondary effects are also unlikely.

What is the mechanism of action of this harmful effect on the brain? What is happening? Because if this is just anecdotal "Dudes I know who've smoked pot all their life are losers", that's really not a proof, or even a suggestion, of any causation.

cannabinoids

632 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:55:59am

He look, it's a study about how long-term marijuana use has very little effect on the brain:

[Link: www.webmd.com...]

The only negative effect found was a very small effect on memory. Very small.

633 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:56:00am

re: #625 Obdicut

It is also my personal anecdotal experience that people who feel that they need to get stoned/drunk every day are losers to begin with even without the added effects of cannabis/alcohol.

634 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:56:21am

re: #620 prononymous

I have used off and on since I was 8. I am now over 30. I take mild offense at your implication that it has impaired my brain function. ;)

Well at least you don't have to worry about being addicted...

/

635 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:56:38am

re: #628 ggt

regular pot smokers can't get gainful employment, alcohol users can.

I'm not sure a study could be conducted compare long-term use of the two.

Anyone using weed long-term has made a choice not to be part of society (i.e. work a full-time job).

What are you talking about? I know tons of daily weed smokers who have full-time jobs.

636 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:57:02am

re: #629 Buck

Any organs? Smoking doesn't have any negative effect on the lungs?

It does. Though, IIRC, less than tobacco.

637 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:57:38am

re: #633 ralphieboy

It is also my personal anecdotal experience that people who feel that they need to get stoned/drunk every day are losers to begin with even without the added effects of cannabis/alcohol.

These individuals usually have an underlying mental or mood disorder and are attempting to self-medicate.

All the more reason to fight the taboos against mental health treatment.

638 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:57:47am

re: #634 Buck

Well at least you don't have to worry about being addicted...

/

It is quite easy to quit, IMO.

639 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:58:16am

re: #635 Obdicut

What are you talking about? I know tons of daily weed smokers who have full-time jobs.

In America?

Are they all self-employed?

640 IngisKahn  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:58:48am

Originally they were refereed to as Fukushima number 1 and number 2. Now all the news agencies call them Fukushima Daiichi and Daini. I'll give you one guess to figure out how to say number 1 and number 2 in Japanese.

641 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:59:35am

re: #628 ggt

I also have to wonder about the difference in legal use and illegal use.

regular pot smokers can't get gainful employment, alcohol users can.

I'm not sure a study could be conducted compare long-term use of the two.

Anyone using weed long-term has made a choice not to be part of society (i.e. work a full-time job).

It would be interesting to compare to a country in which weed were legal to see if daily use affected work-related parameters (sick days, coming in late, work performance) differently than alcohol users.

Ok, now you are making some rather silly assertions. I have never been unemployed for more than a week or two at a time, and I smoke regularly. I am part of society. I have a good life. I have a wife, friends, and am still on good terms with past employers.

I'm really not getting where you are coming up with this stuff, but it's bullshit.

642 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 9:59:51am

re: #639 ggt

In America?

Are they all self-employed?

Um, no. They range from software executives to barbers to plumbers to bartenders and waiters. What on earth do you think stops a regular weed smoker from holding down a job?

643 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:00:25am

re: #642 Obdicut

Um, no. They range from software executives to barbers to plumbers to bartenders and waiters. What on earth do you think stops a regular weed smoker from holding down a job?

drug testing.

Perhaps that varies state-by-state.

644 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:00:31am

re: #639 ggt

In America?

Are they all self-employed?

Very few jobs require drug testing. I know tons of daily smokers who have regular jobs. In the summer the backyards of Portland are filled with pot plants. Just normal everyday people.

645 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:00:56am

re: #631 Walter L. Newton

cannabinoids

...Just a little north of Hemorrhoids ?....;-)
Good morning all!
Central Utah is enjoying a short shot of Spring today!!
Woo hoo!

646 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:01:03am

re: #643 ggt

drug testing.

Perhaps that varies state-by-state.

Drug testing for what, by whom? What percentage of employers do you think drug-test, exactly?

647 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:01:41am

re: #644 Killgore Trout

Very few jobs require drug testing. I know tons of daily smokers who have regular jobs. In the summer the backyards of Portland are filled with pot plants. Just normal everyday people.

Maybe in your part of the world.

Drug-testing is a part of life in my part.

drug-testing as a condition of hiring and random drug testing thru-out employment.

648 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:01:54am

re: #643 ggt

drug testing.

Perhaps that varies state-by-state.

I've never had to take a drug test for work, and it's not like I have specifically avoided jobs that test for it. It's just never come up.

649 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:02:25am

re: #648 Fozzie Bear

I've never had to take a drug test for work, and it's not like I have specifically avoided jobs that test for it. It's just never come up.

lucky you. I've had drug test for every job I've applied for in the last 20 years.

650 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:02:50am

re: #647 ggt

For a small minority of jobs, yes. For jobs in legal research and IT (fields in which I have worked) almost nobody will ask you to take a drug test.

651 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:02:53am

re: #645 reloadingisnotahobby

...Just a little north of Hemorrhoids ?...;-)
Good morning all!
Central Utah is enjoying a short shot of Spring today!!
Woo hoo!

Same here... sort of... too bad... we didn't have much winter... no more than 2-3 feet around here all winter... maybe we will still get some spring dumpers... need the moisture... we've already had some wild fires popping up... which is early in the fire season.

652 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:03:23am

re: #650 Fozzie Bear

For a small minority of jobs, yes. For jobs in legal research and IT (fields in which I have worked) almost nobody will ask you to take a drug test.

nice to know.

653 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:03:39am

I have to be productive.

have a great day all!

654 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:03:59am

re: #649 ggt

lucky you. I've had drug test for every job I've applied for in the last 20 years.

I am sure that the same guy who supplies Fozzie with his drugs could come up with a bottle of clean pee, if the need came up.

(I am just kidding around).

655 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:04:10am

re: #647 ggt

At the absolute height of drug-testing insanity, only 40% of employers drug tested employees regularly.

Most 'drug tests' are just done when getting employed, and that's extremely easy for a non-addictive drug user-- like a weed smoker-- to pass. They just stop before the test.

656 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:05:03am

A lot of companies that drug test only do so for opiates and other narcotics, because they don't give a shit about marijuana, anyway.

657 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:05:07am

re: #647 ggt

I work for the State with a high security clearance...I was tested
once...16 years ago! LOL
...Maroons! //

658 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:05:27am

re: #654 Buck

I am sure that the same guy who supplies Fozzie with his drugs could come up with a bottle of clean pee, if the need came up.

(I am just kidding around).

LOL! If I find myself unemployed, i'd just quit for awhile, if I thought it might be an issue. It's not like it's hard to stop, because it just isn't all that addictive.

659 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:07:06am

re: #651 Walter L. Newton

The big "What if" here is if we get a warm up to soon we have nowhere to go with run off.....Unlees you count several basements...Yikes

660 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:07:37am

re: #641 Fozzie Bear

Ok, now you are making some rather silly assertions. I have never been unemployed for more than a week or two at a time, and I smoke regularly. I am part of society. I have a good life. I have a wife, friends, and am still on good terms with past employers.

I'm really not getting where you are coming up with this stuff, but it's bullshit.

Some companies require drug screening as a condition of employment.

661 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:08:43am

re: #658 Fozzie Bear

LOL! If I find myself unemployed, i'd just quit for awhile, if I thought it might be an issue. It's not like it's hard to stop, because it just isn't all that addictive.

Says the guy who has been smoking regularly since he was 8....

(I can't help myself.... the jokes are just out there...)

662 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:08:59am

re: #660 Alouette

Some companies require drug screening as a condition of employment.

Yeah, I get that, but it's a long way from "you might have to quit to get job x" to "pot smokers can't hold jobs or be productive members of society".

663 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:10:23am

re: #609 ggt

Personal experience is what I have. Plenty of loser ex-friends that can't hold a job or use their minds.

Ever been to an AA meeting?

664 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:10:47am

re: #660 Alouette

Some companies require drug screening as a condition of employment.

So stop for a few weeks (or so, depending on bodyfat and metabolism) beforehand. Or pick up some clean pee at the headshop. Ongoing regular or random testing is even rarer than testing before being hired.

665 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:12:48am

re: #664 prononymous

So stop for a few weeks (or so, depending on bodyfat and metabolism) beforehand. Or pick up some clean pee at the headshop. Ongoing regular or random testing is even rarer than testing before being hired.

Every job that I have had for the past 20 years has required drug screening as a condition of employment, but I have never encountered a random drug check. I did have them call and ask about my prescription meds.

666 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:13:46am

re: #635 Obdicut

What are you talking about? I know tons of daily weed smokers who have full-time jobs.

Taco Bell would have nobody to work the night shift without them...

667 Four More Tears  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:13:52am

re: #663 negativ

Ever been to an AA meeting?

I used to work security at my old high school. They hosted an AA meeting every week. Seeing those guys when I was so young has stuck with me, and to this day I'm not much of a drinker.

668 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:14:28am

re: #665 Alouette

That's my point. Most places don't check you once you are in the door. And it is easy to pass a one time test that you know is coming.

669 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:16:40am

re: #640 IngisKahn

Originally they were refereed to as Fukushima number 1 and number 2. Now all the news agencies call them Fukushima Daiichi and Daini. I'll give you one guess to figure out how to say number 1 and number 2 in Japanese.

Fukushima Daiichi and Fukushima Daini are two distinct locations.

The most serious troubles are at the Daiichi location, where meltdowns and explosions have occurred in Units 1,2,3 and primary containment breeched in Unit2. Also a Zircinium fire at Unit4 - where a pool of spent fuel rods lost water, outside the primary containment.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

670 dmon  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:19:04am

Randomly drug tested throughout career here........ 5% of employees each month

But hell I'm just one of them lazy public employees

671 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:20:23am

re: #656 Obdicut

A lot of companies that drug test only do so for opiates and other narcotics, because they don't give a shit about marijuana, anyway.

Many of the standard tests don't test for LSD, peyote, or shrooms.

"Yo, Carl. Where are you going in that steamroller?"
"The road sounds delicious, hehehe."
"..."

672 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:23:22am

Tell the truth, if you discovered that the pilot of your next commercial flight has been smoking pot regularly since they were eight years old?

Remember.... we are told there are no ill effects what so ever....

673 abolitionist  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:24:16am

pimf - Zirconium

re: #640 IngisKahn

Are you Japanese?

674 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:25:43am

re: #672 Buck

Tell the truth, if you discovered that the pilot of your next commercial flight has been smoking pot regularly since they were eight years old?

Remember... we are told there are no ill effects what so ever...

As opposed to overworked, tired, drunk, etc? I guess you shouldn't bother ever flying again.

675 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:26:00am

re: #672 Buck

Fine with me. You see, I depend on science more than irrational gut reactions.

It's a handy thing, science.

676 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:28:33am

re: #672 Buck

Who starts at 8 years old? I'd think there would be a lot of other problems if they started at 8.

677 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:30:32am

re: #676 Fozzie Bear

He is singling me out. Except that I do biology, not fly planes.

678 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:32:25am

re: #677 prononymous

Looks like habitual pot-smokers write long, cogent round-ups on available energy technology.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

How terrible.

679 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:33:26am

re: #678 Obdicut

Long? I had 10's of thousands of characters left!

680 Buck  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:35:59am

I am just kidding around.... I can't take this subject seriously.

There are studies that do link Cannabis and psychiatric disorders. But you guys are right, no real proof that they would not have been schizophrenic bipolar, or clinically depressed... without MJ.

Hard to prove it.

681 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 10:43:42am

re: #680 Buck

I am just kidding around... I can't take this subject seriously.

There are studies that do link Cannabis and psychiatric disorders. But you guys are right, no real proof that they would not have been schizophrenic bipolar, or clinically depressed... without MJ.

Hard to prove it.

Indeed, it has been linked to increased risk of mental disorders. More study needs to be done in this regard. Instances of certain mental disorders within your family is also an indicator of increased risk. If your family has a history of mental illness or you have other indicators for increased risk of mental illness - perhaps you should think twice before taking mind altering substances, including cannabis and alcohol.

682 Blizard  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 11:02:31am

My parents grew it in their bedroom in the 70s (in West Texas). Needless to say my sister and I had an early introduction to it, I think I first inhaled when I was around 12, and it was totally voluntary. Yeah, I was problematic and rebellious in my teens afterward, but who wasn't?

I stayed sober throughout college, I think mainly because I had gotten much of the experimenting out of the way. It was old news to me by then. Meanwhile my classmates were pulling 6 footers and traveling Dead shows. Meh.

I don't have any problems with it to this day. But it has been getting more potent to say the least here in Colorado. Pot nowadays goes a looong way.

683 RogueOne  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 11:33:57am

re: #572 sattv4u2

I didn't think many conservatives "toke"

I mean,, I USED too, but that was back in my youth when I was a knoweverythingcollegeliberal

quit looking at me

684 IngisKahn  Tue, Mar 15, 2011 3:13:43pm

re: #669 abolitionist

Fukushima Daiichi and Fukushima Daini are two distinct locations.

The most serious troubles are at the Daiichi location, where meltdowns and explosions have occurred in Units 1,2,3 and primary containment breeched in Unit2. Also a Zircinium fire at Unit4 - where a pool of spent fuel rods lost water, outside the primary containment.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

They are indeed two different locations; I just thought it was a bit silly that the news agencies started saying "number 1" and "number 2" in Japanese. Perhaps it was an attempt to find out what their names were when they are literally "Fukushima Number X"

685 budda10000  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 9:49:23am

re: #148 EmmmieG

The Japanese fisheries are already ruined. Its an island full of 130 million sea food lovers. They have been fishing far from their own shores for decades since the collapse of their fisheries.

686 budda10000  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 9:52:16am

This story just convinces me more that we should demand increased funding for fusion reactor technology. These fissile reactors are just way too dangerous to rely on as a permanent power source. One routine earthquake and vast areas of land are uninhabitable for 1000 years.


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