Florida GOP Senator Resurrects Failed 2009 Creationism Bill

Anti-evolution bill makes a comeback, with more Republicans in the legislature
Wingnuts • Views: 34,415

In March 2009, Florida Republican science denier Sen. Stephen Wise introduced an anti-evolution bill that quickly died in the legislature for lack of support.

This year, though, after the influx of far right anti-science Tea Party candidates in 2010, Wise thinks his attempt to sneak creationism into public school science classes (based on the template developed by the anti-evolution Discovery Institute and used by Republicans in dozens of states) stands a better chance.

And he’s probably right.

DERPScience education advocates are alarmed by a bill before the Legislature that they say could force teachers to challenge evolution at the expense of settled science.

Stephen Wise, chairman of the Senate Education Committee, has resurrected legislation he authored in 2009 that calls for a “thorough presentation and critical analysis of the scientific theory of evolution.” Wise’s bill failed to pass in 2009.

The critical analysis approach originated at the Discovery Institute, a think tank that supports the teaching of intelligent design, which holds that evolution alone cannot explain life, which is so complex that it must have had a creator. …

Wise, R-Jacksonville, thinks his evolution bill may have a better chance this year because there are more conservatives in the Legislature and because he chairs a substantive committee.

“Why would you not teach both theories at the same time?” Wise said, referring to evolution and what he called “nonevolution.”

“You have critical thinking in school,” Wise added. “Why would you not do both?”

In 2009, Wise told WMNF radio he was concerned that students might be persecuted for wanting to talk about intelligent design.

Why do we still have apes if we came from them?” Wise, a retired educator, said during the interview with the Tampa radio station. “And those are the kind of questions kids need to ask themselves. You know, ‘how did we get here?’ And, you know, there’s more than one theory on this thing. And the theory is evolution, the other one is intelligent design.”

At this point, there’s little doubt that the ironically named Sen. Wise knows the difference between a scientific theory — a coherent, testable explanation for observed phenomena — and the completely non-scientific fraud known as “intelligent design.”

Yet, he (and every other creationist, for that matter) continues to parrot these nonsensical talking points.

“Why do we still have apes, if mah granddaddy was a ape?”

Deliberate dishonesty or pigheaded dimwittedness? You decide.

And please note that this throwback has managed to get himself into a position where his Dark Ages magical thinking is actually influential. Wise is the chairman of Florida’s Senate Education Committee. Argh.

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144 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 12:57:58pm
“Why do we still have apes if we came from them?”

This is the easiest argument to knockdown, but it requires understanding of biology, genetics, and evolution itself. Something they’d never get.

2 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 12:58:25pm

Of course, resurrection is no problem for those who believe the earth is 6,000 years old.

Did they make Wise the chairman just because of his name?

3 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 12:58:45pm

We need science to remain a globally competitive economy. Perverting our educational system to serve religious Dogma is going to make us wind up with an misinformed, unemployable populace.

4 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 12:58:53pm

Morons

5 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 12:58:57pm

With all the crises going on (which in Florida’s case is ongoing economic troubles, real estate collapse, unemployment - aka the economy) - this is what the GOP is pushing? Pushing junk/crank science into classrooms where they do not belong?

To rephrase a common adage. It’s the ECONOMY. Stupid!

6 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:01:21pm

This is what happens when you promise the religious right a social agenda and then don’t keep it; they wind up taking over your party.

7 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:02:46pm

re: #5 lawhawk

With all the crises going on (which in Florida’s case is ongoing economic troubles, real estate collapse, unemployment - aka the economy) - this is what the GOP is pushing? Pushing junk/crank science into classrooms where they do not belong?

To rephrase a common adage. It’s the ECONOMY. Stupid!

Not just Florida - there’s a record number of these creationism bills introduced this year, all over the country.

8 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:04:37pm
“Why do we still have apes, if mah granddaddy was a ape?”

Excuse me for a bit, my head asploded.

9 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:05:22pm

re: #8 Varek Raith

Darn, wrong quote.
Effect is still the same.
;)

10 Lidane  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:06:18pm

re: #3 Obdicut

We need science to remain a globally competitive economy. Perverting our educational system to serve religious Dogma is going to make us wind up with an misinformed, unemployable populace.

I’ve been shouting this from the rooftops for ages, to no avail. It’s frustrating.

How the hell are we supposed to remain competitive and relevant in the global economy if we insist on teaching our kids this sort of magical thinking instead of real science, real reason, and real critical thinking skills?

11 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:07:51pm

re: #8 Varek Raith

Keep it together Red Six….

12 Lidane  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:08:05pm

re: #5 lawhawk

To rephrase a common adage. It’s the ECONOMY. Stupid!

Pfft. Who needs all that when the Supply Side Jesus will save us all when he Raptures the good little Republicans who deny science and evolution and reality? =P

13 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:08:39pm

re: #12 Lidane

Pfft. Who needs all that when the Supply Side Jesus will save us all when he Raptures the good little Republicans who deny science and evolution and reality? =P

I’LL BE FREEEEEEEEEEEE!

14 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:08:54pm

re: #11 lawhawk

Keep it together Red Six…

And someone get Porkins a wet nap.

15 The Yankee  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:09:10pm

Here is yet another Florida State Rep that should be replaced

Claiming that a 11 year deserved to get raped

16 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:09:58pm

re: #14 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And someone get Porkins a wet nap.

And a 60z double gulp of Pepsi.
Image: tumblr_leni103Y6V1qbhhbro1_400.jpg

17 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:10:56pm

Jeeze Louise.

In technology, our nuclear powered aircraft carriers are descended from sailing ships. If this is so, how come we still have sailing ships?

Jets were developed from (in effect, descended from) propeller planes. If this is so, how come we still have prop planes? A numbskull like the Senator might think that prop planes haven’t been made in 50 or 60 years. That would be ok, I have known people who were that uninformed about aviation but could manage other subjects quite well. Unlike the senator though they were not charged with making policy in the areas about which they were abysmally ignorant.

18 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:11:03pm

re: #15 The Yankee

Here’s the LGF page for that story


[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

19 garhighway  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:11:05pm

Breaking news:

WASHINGTON — The chairman of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission gave a significantly bleaker appraisal of threat posed by the Japanese nuclear crisis than the Japanese government, saying on Wednesday that the damage at one crippled reactor was much more serious than Japanese officials had acknowledged and advising to Americans to evacuate a wider area around the plant than ordered by the Japanese government.

Gregory Jaczko, the chairman of the commission, said in Congressional testimony that the commission believed that all the water in the spent fuel pool at the No. 4 reactor of the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Station had boiled dry, leaving fuel rods stored there completely exposed. As a result, he said, “We believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures.”

Link:

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

20 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:11:57pm

re: #15 The Yankee

Here is yet another Florida State Rep that should be replaced

Claiming that a 11 year deserved to get raped

There is no justification for what those men did no matter the age or clothing of the victim.

21 aagcobb  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:12:47pm

re: #17 Shiplord Kirel

Thats easy, sailing ships and propellor planes are intelligently designed, just like apes!
/

22 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:13:24pm

An example involving biological inheritence:

I am descended from Irish farmers, yet I am not one. If this is so, how come we still have farmers in Ireland?

23 aagcobb  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:13:52pm

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It wouldn’t have happened if the little temptress had been wearing a burka!!1!1
/

24 Slap  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:14:04pm

Ah. Jacksonville.

Despite the protestations to the contrary from some of my family, some Lizards and others — no matter how comparatively “progressive” this town may be — it’s still Jacksonville. Southern Georgia. Swamplands, gator stars.

I will grant, however, that it’s likely Jacksonville is less backward than Mississippi.

Kudos!

25 Summer Seale  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:14:07pm

Pffft, of course we don’t come from apes!

This is how it happens: A mommy cabbage patch kid and a daddy cabbage patch kid fall in love. Then they plant a seed in a garden under a tree and cuddle up at night in the branches. Then the stars shine and the unicorns fly above the special garden and sprinkle the beautiful earth with rainbow dust. In the morning, the mommy and daddy cabbage patch kids come down and their cabbage patch baby is sitting there all tucked away nice and warm in the beautiful sunlight in the forest of the little fae folk people who are always good and protected by the great spirit in the sky.

That’s where people always came from and how they’re made, and I’m sticking to it, even if all the “scientists” say otherwise. I know better.

26 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:14:47pm

“If my children came from me, how come I’m still alive?”

27 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:15:24pm

If chickens came from eggs, why do we still have eggs?

*Going to fix some lunch now*

28 The Yankee  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:15:51pm

re: #7 Charles

Not just Florida - there’s a record number of these creationism bills introduced this year, all over the country.

The problem with science is that it is hard to stand up for because of how complicated it is. Creationism is going to be popular because our population is majority Christian and Evolution is complicated and nuance. It is a lot more easier to explain that God did it and it more popular to say that you are not decedent from monkeys let a lone explain the fact that you are a monkey/old world gorilla.

If these laws passed they will be hard to overturn cause I am pretty sure most Democrats wont want to take the political hit for saying evolution is real or even know enough to realize how flawed creationism is.

29 garhighway  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:15:57pm

re: #27 abolitionist

If chickens came from eggs, why do we still have eggs?

*Going to fix some lunch now*

The eggs come in, the eggs go out.

30 Lidane  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:16:37pm

re: #29 garhighway

The eggs come in, the eggs go out.

You can’t explain that!

31 aagcobb  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:17:28pm

re: #28 The Yankee

If these laws passed they will be hard to overturn cause I am pretty sure most Democrats wont want to take the political hit for saying evolution is real or even know enough to realize how flawed creationism is.

Fortunately, that’s what we have the ACLU for.

32 garhighway  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:17:35pm

re: #30 Lidane

You can’t explain that!

Never a miscommunication.

33 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:20:48pm
“Why do we still have apes if we came from them?


What’s next?

The flagella couldn’t have evolved!
How to magnets work?
You can’t explain that.
Fire and lightning! Oh no, earth god angry!

34 S'latch  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:26:14pm

I love these.

My favorite: “Bread goes in. Toast comes out. You can’t explain that.”

35 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:27:19pm

re: #15 The Yankee

My reaction to this.

36 Eclectic Cyborg (formerly dragonfire1981)  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:33:52pm

It’s funny how Christians act like the biblical creation story is the only creation theory that matters outside of the scientifically accepted Big Bang/Evolution model. You want to teach alternate theories? What about Shinto and Hindu and Buddhist and Native American and Aboriginal stories of how the world came to be? Limiting intelligent design to one religion, especially in an educational setting is beyond stupid.

In fact it results in the one the Right hates Obama and his “radical liberal” cronies of doing to American kids: INDOCTRINATION.

37 shutdown  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:34:19pm

@Charles: Sen. Wise is in fact aptly named, if you associate him with a flaky, brittle chip rather than knowledge.

38 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:36:14pm

re: #37 imp_62

@Charles: Sen. Wise is in fact aptly named, if you associate him with a flaky, brittle chip rather than knowledge.

I think they only have those in the eastern part of this great nation.

39 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:37:18pm

re: #34 Lawrence Schmerel

I love these.

My favorite: “Bread goes in. Toast comes out. You can’t explain that.”

“Play peekaboo. Face disappears. You can’t explain that.”

40 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:37:56pm

re: #38 wrenchwench

I think they only have those in the eastern part of this great nation.

You can get them at the Philly Cheese place here in San Diego. Along with Tastycakes!

41 albusteve  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:38:27pm

these bible punching lunatics are gonna wreck what’s left of the public schools…I think the USSC should step in immediately or this crap will go on forever

42 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:39:34pm

re: #40 Stanley Sea

You can get them at the Philly Cheese place here in San Diego. Along with Tastycakes!

A country so great, our specialty foods imports are from—-the same country!

43 researchok  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:41:57pm

re: #39 wrenchwench

“Play peekaboo. Face disappears. You can’t explain that.”

I have a theory about how that works…
//

44 researchok  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:44:16pm

re: #34 Lawrence Schmerel

I love these.

My favorite: “Bread goes in. Toast comes out. You can’t explain that.”

I’m partial to “Kasrdashians. You can’t explain that”

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

45 celticdragon  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:45:11pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Morons

You mean morans...

46 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:50:47pm

I’ve been trying to get my roof fixed for over eight months. Delay after delay after delay. Today they just started cutting up the three roofs stacked up there so they can be removed. The noise is incredible.

How about one more delay?

/arrrgh

47 shutdown  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:52:42pm

re: #46 wrenchwench

I’ve been trying to get my roof fixed for over eight months. Delay after delay after delay. Today they just started cutting up the three roofs stacked up there so they can be removed. The noise is incredible.

How about one more delay?

/arrrgh

We start on a bathroom tomorrow. Not looking forward.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:54:56pm

re: #1 Dreggas

This is the easiest argument to knockdown, but it requires understanding of biology, genetics, and evolution itself. Something they’d never get.

I like the explanation someone here gave, which points out that even though you are descended from your great-grandpa, you still have cousins.

49 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:55:51pm

re: #47 imp_62

We start on a bathroom tomorrow. Not looking forward.

Well, at least I don’t need to use my roof on occasion….

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 1:58:53pm

re: #15 The Yankee

Here is yet another Florida State Rep that should be replaced

Claiming that a 11 year deserved to get raped

Because everyone knows that once men see a little girl dressed too old for her age, they are unable to stop themselves from raping her. It’s just biology.

//Cannot comment honestly on this without getting my ass banned. Evil upsets me.

51 engineer cat  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:08:03pm

if evolution is true, how come there are still wingnuts?

52 acacia  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:09:09pm

If the situation were reversed - i.e. “intelligent design” was taught in science classes and evolution was not part of the approved curriculum - I doubt that the proponents of this bill would be very sympathetic to idea that we’re just providing a “balanced” view. I just don’t understand why it’s so difficult to keep science in the science class and religion in the religion class.

53 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:09:14pm

re: #51 engineer dog

if evolution is true, how come there are still wingnuts?

Idiocracy. THey breed faster.

54 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:09:24pm

OT on the nuclear plant in Japan:

‎”The new line would revive electric-powered pumps, allowing the company to maintain a steady water supply to troubled reactors and spent fuel storage ponds, keeping them cool. The 180 emergency workers have been working in shifts to manually pump seawater into the reactors because last week’s earthquake and tsunami disabled main and backup power for electric-powered cooling pumps.”


That’s from CBS news. Manually pump ?!? That’s amazing, right out of the 19th century, like on a ship in a Joseph Conrad novel.

55 Randy W. Weeks  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:10:51pm

To these idiots the scientific method consists of “G-d said it. I believe it. That settles it.”

And this current crop of theocrats is coming mighty close to adding “And you better believe it!” to the above.

56 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:12:11pm

re: #53 Dreggas

They also somehow found an ecological niche for themselves. Like Mosquitos.

57 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:14:20pm

From the NYT:

Mr. Jaczko (the name is pronounced YAZZ-koe) said radiation levels may make it impossible to continue what he called the “backup backup” cooling functions that have so far helped check the fuel melting at the other reactors. Those efforts consist of using fire hoses to dump water on overheated fuel and then letting the radioactive steam vent into the atmosphere.

Those emergency measures, implemented by a small squad of workers and firemen, are the main steps Japan is taking at Daiichi to forestall a full blown fuel meltdown that would lead to much higher releases of radioactive material.

58 acacia  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:14:25pm

re: #56 ProLifeLiberal

Or are they simply the “apes” that Rep. Wise simply can’t understand why they’re still around.

59 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:16:37pm

re: #58 acacia

But most apes are smarter than these sorts of morons.

60 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:16:38pm

re: #57 Ojoe

I’m starting to think maybe the situation is worse than they are telling us.

61 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:17:52pm

Right now, the dollar is crashing against the Yen, pushing down to 79 Yen per dollar. The reason given is that the fear is Japanese companies will have to dump dollars in large amounts, to buy Yen to spend at home.

This will mean Japanese manufactured goods will cost even more in the US, which will mean less Japanese exports… and around and around it goes… difficult times for Japanese.

I heard from a Japanese friend outside of Osaka. She writes that stores in her area (not affected directly by the quake) have dimmed their lights, and that some store shelves are emptier than usual (hoarding?)

62 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:19:23pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

There is no easy way to cool those spent fuel rods. After the Japanese gov’t had to give up on the helicopter idea they are now saying that installing new electrical lines to the plant will somehow make all the water pumps work. However, they have to figure out how to protect the electrical workers first.

63 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:19:39pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

At least let’s hope they have little portable gasoline powered sump pumps & are not relying on human muscle.

64 BishopX  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:19:41pm

re: #54 Ojoe

By manually pump they mean use a fire engine to pump water rather than the automatic systems. The reactors are boiling off something on the order of 60 gallons per minute, there are three reactors, if they were doing it manually they would been to be moving 180 gallons a minute constantly, that 36 5 gallon buckets or a bucket every second and a half. That seems unlikely, especially since they periodically suspend pumping to vent the reactors to prevent pressure buildup.

65 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:20:38pm

re: #62 freetoken

They do have a Kamikaze tradition however.

66 albusteve  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:22:10pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

I’m starting to think maybe the situation is worse than they are telling us.

yup, I think we may witness our first meltdown…altho efforts to prevent a meltdown have been nothing short of heroic

67 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:23:29pm

Wait a second. If religion (one group’s religion) can be taught in school as fact, I demand that the Book of Mormon be taught in history class.

I accept it as history, and I can’t imagine why everyone else shouldn’t be required to.

68 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:23:38pm

BTW, this whole spent-fuel rod issue plays a part in those disaster TV series on what would happen on Earth if humans just disappeared suddenly.

We keep rods stored in pools of water… and when those water supplies break down without any humans to fix them, the water boils off, the rods get hot enough to melt, and there are radioactive element laced plumes all around the country. Quite the apocalyptic scenario.

And, all of this talks about spent fuel rods brings us right back to Yucca mountain, and why it is important for the US to come to terms with finding a long term storage scheme for this stuff.

69 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:25:32pm

re: #68 freetoken

BTW, this whole spent-fuel rod issue plays a part in those disaster TV series on what would happen on Earth if humans just disappeared suddenly.

We keep rods stored in pools of water… and when those water supplies break down without any humans to fix them, the water boils off, the rods get hot enough to melt, and there are radioactive element laced plumes all around the country. Quite the apocalyptic scenario.

And, all of this talks about spent fuel rods brings us right back to Yucca mountain, and why it is important for the US to come to terms with finding a long term storage scheme for this stuff.

We’re all going to disappear suddenly? Even the bubonic plague only killed 1/3 of us.

70 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:26:12pm

It’s official. After the Huffington Post was acquired by AOL, they have lost their fucking minds.

Andrew Breitbart, Among Others, Now Writing for Huffington Post

Big news. But we want to talk about something else. Andrew Breitbart is now blogging for Huffington Post. Here’s the first graph of his very first post.

The latest James O’Keefe success story against NPR has taken a predictable pattern — panicked press releases and firings, followed by denunciation of O’Keefe in a belated attempt to discredit him. Naturally, conservatives are crowing about it, but I wanted to give a little perspective to those Huffington Post readers — whatever your political stripe — who share my passion for free speech, honest debate, and fairness in the media.

Yes, not only is the conservative agitator now blogging on the formerly iconographic liberal website, he’s using the site to credit his propensity for “honest debate.”

Honest like taking out-of-context videos of Shirley Sherrod, putting them online and–knowingly mind you–falsely accusing her of being a racist?

Et tu, HuffPo?

71 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:27:09pm

re: #52 acacia

. I just don’t understand why it’s so difficult to keep science in the science class and religion in the religion class.

There is a lack of basic education: these people do not understand the distinction between religious scriptures and scientific texts. They do not understand the distinction between a dogma and a theory. They do not see the difference between a divine commandment and a human law.

Which means there is no arguing with these folks, all we can do is limit the amount of permanent damage they can wreak by imposing their cretinous views on us.

72 justaminute  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:27:29pm

I’ve been concerned about the spent fuel rods that are located atop of the reactors. I read many blogs talk about this quote from the Washington Post:

At the 40-year-old Fukushima Daiichi unit 1, where an explosion Saturday destroyed a building housing the reactor, the spent fuel pool, in accordance with General Electric’s design, is placed above the reactor. Tokyo Electric said it was trying to figure out how to maintain water levels in the pools, indicating that the normal safety systems there had failed, too. Failure to keep adequate water levels in a pool would lead to a catastrophic fire, said nuclear experts, some of whom think that unit 1’s pool may now be outside.
“That would be like Chernobyl on steroids,” said Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer at Fairewinds Associates and a member of the public oversight panel for the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, which is identical to the Fukushima Daiichi unit 1.
People familiar with the plant said there are seven spent fuel pools at Fukushima Daiichi, many of them densely packed.
Gundersen said the unit 1 pool could have as much as 20 years of spent fuel rods, which are still radioactive

73 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:27:42pm

re: #70 RadicalModerate

Didn’t that just get sold?

74 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:27:56pm

re: #69 EmmmieG

It was one of the disaster series that are played on cable channels, the ones that pretend to be educational and science-oriented, and run shows similar to “Ancient Aliens and their Monster Trucks on the Ocean Floor”, and stuff like that.

75 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:28:23pm

re: #70 RadicalModerate

He’s just going home.

76 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:28:52pm

re: #74 freetoken

It was one of the disaster series that are played on cable channels, the ones that pretend to be educational and science-oriented, and run shows similar to “Ancient Aliens and their Monster Trucks on the Ocean Floor”, and stuff like that.

Well, yes, and in a major disaster and evacuation, I wonder who would stay and pump water?

77 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:30:11pm

Gotta go. I have

Band auction duties
Mom Chauffeur duties
Dance Practice watching Duties

Etc.

Keep fighting the good fight and keep an eye on those sneaky magnets.

78 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:30:26pm

re: #76 EmmmieG

Well, yes, and in a major disaster and evacuation, I wonder who would stay and pump water?

Well, obviously, the Ancient Aliens in their Monster Trucks will help us out, no?

79 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:30:59pm

re: #73 Obdicut

AOL bought the Huffington Post for $315 Million in February.

80 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:31:10pm

re: #76 EmmmieG

Well, yes, and in a major disaster and evacuation, I wonder who would stay and pump water?

The Marines and the Scouts and the American Legion.

81 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:33:46pm

BBL

82 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:33:58pm

re: #60 Killgore Trout

I’m starting to think maybe the situation is worse than they are telling us.

In most units, there are much larger accumulations of nasty stuff in the pools of spent fuel rods than in the several reactor cores. Coolant water is imperative for them as well. When water levels run low for them, there is essentially no containment.

83 freetoken  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:35:50pm

Stupid, stupid media:

US troops banned from area around nuclear plant


The White House is advising Americans in the area around a crippled Japanese nuclear plant to follow more stringent safety precautions than those set by the Japanese government.

[…]

U.S. military relief crews near the troubled Fukushima Dai-ichi facility are receiving anti-radiation pills before missions to areas of possible radiation exposure, the Pentagon said Wednesday.

[…]

There are no such things as “anti-radiation pills” that could be, in fact, “anti-radiation”. This just plays on magical beliefs of people (who watch TV shows about Ancient Aliens and their Monster Trucks) who want to pop a magickal pill to solve any problem.

In fact: among the radioactive waste from the accelerated chain reactions in nuclear power stations is an isotope of iodine. The human body easily absorbs iodine compounds, and the thyroid accumulates iodine. Thus the risk is increased radioactive isotopes in the thyroid, which will lead to cellular damage in the thyroid. So by giving humans megadoses of non-radioactive iodine the body’s tendency to want to accumulate more iodine in the thyroid is reduced.

84 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:38:42pm

ApathyBGone Apathy B. Gone
by 8th_of_Branstad

Score one for transparency and sunlight. @GovWalker must produce emails regarding #WIUnion [Link: bit.ly…]

85 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:39:33pm

j_ro Jason Rosenbaum
by chrislhayes

Huge crowd taking on Wisconsin republicans in dc for a lobbyist fundraiser. #WIunion yfrog.com/h0frzhjj

86 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:39:57pm

re: #84 Stanley Sea

Nice. Let’s wait for the inevitable “Oh wait, they were deleted” coverup.

87 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:39:59pm

re: #85 Stanley Sea

j_ro Jason Rosenbaum
by chrislhayes

Huge crowd taking on Wisconsin republicans in dc for a lobbyist fundraiser. #WIunion yfrog.com/h0frzhjj

Try the photo here

[Link: yfrog.com…]

88 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:41:07pm

re: #86 Obdicut

Nice. Let’s wait for the inevitable “Oh wait, they were deleted” coverup.

Or it takes us 3 years (Sarah Palin) to redact the important info.

Bullshit.

89 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:41:31pm

Now all they have to do is prove which Creator. Brahma and The Great Spirit work just as well as the Judeo-Christian God.

And you can’t do that with science.

Or rather I hope not.

I’m remembering a Larry Niven short story from many years ago where a race did discover something about God through science. Shortly thereafter the entire race committed suicide. Every one that investigated what happened committed suicide as well.

Maybe we’re better off not knowing.

90 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:41:38pm

re: #83 freetoken

Stupid, stupid media:

US troops banned from area around nuclear plant

There are no such things as “anti-radiation pills” that could be, in fact, “anti-radiation”. This just plays on magical beliefs of people (who watch TV shows about Ancient Aliens and their Monster Trucks) who want to pop a magickal pill to solve any problem.

In fact: among the radioactive waste from the accelerated chain reactions in nuclear power stations is an isotope of iodine. The human body easily absorbs iodine compounds, and the thyroid accumulates iodine. Thus the risk is increased radioactive isotopes in the thyroid, which will lead to cellular damage in the thyroid. So by giving humans megadoses of non-radioactive iodine the body’s tendency to want to accumulate more iodine in the thyroid is reduced.

Just pop some Rad-X and RadAway.
/

91 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:41:45pm

re: #86 Obdicut

Nice. Let’s wait for the inevitable “Oh wait, they were deleted” coverup.

Even better

Charitie Charitie
by 8th_of_Branstad

Ha! @GovWalker lost this lawsuit: Isthmus, AP will get emails, Walker must pay legal costs: [Link: bit.ly…] #wiunion

92 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:42:59pm

[4:25 p.m. ET Wednesday, 5:25 a.m. Thursday in Tokyo] A spent fuel pool at Japan’s stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant is dry, resulting in “extremely high” radiation levels, the head of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission said Wednesday.

“What we believe at this time is that there has been a hydrogen explosion in this unit due to an uncovering of the fuel in the fuel pool,” Gregory Jaczko told a House energy and commerce subcommittee hearing. “We believe that secondary containment has been destroyed and there is no water in the spent fuel pool, and we believe that radiation levels are extremely high, which could possibly impact the ability to take corrective measures.”

93 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:44:31pm

So new joke time.

Exactly how much cocaine did Charlie Sheen take?

Enough to kill 2 and a half men.

94 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:46:19pm

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So new joke time.

Exactly how much cocaine did Charlie Sheen take?

Enough to kill 2 and a half men.

*Shakes head*
:P

95 TedStriker  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:48:10pm

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So new joke time.

Exactly how much cocaine did Charlie Sheen take?

Enough to kill 2 and a half men.

Cocaine’s a helluva drug…

/Rick James

96 albusteve  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:48:19pm

re: #93 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So new joke time.

Exactly how much cocaine did Charlie Sheen take?

Enough to kill 2 and a half men.

and all of the associated production jobs…a major asshole

97 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:48:20pm

Earth: 30,000 B.C.E.

It does explain a great deal. WE ARE THAT PLANET…
/

98 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:49:34pm

re: #95 talon_262

Cocaine’s a helluva drug…

/Rick James

I’m Rick James Bitch!

99 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:50:59pm

re: #70 RadicalModerate

It’s official. After the Huffington Post was acquired by AOL, they have lost their fucking minds.

Andrew Breitbart, Among Others, Now Writing for Huffington Post

Yes, not only is the conservative agitator now blogging on the formerly iconographic liberal website, he’s using the site to credit his propensity for “honest debate.”

Honest like taking out-of-context videos of Shirley Sherrod, putting them online and–knowingly mind you–falsely accusing her of being a racist?

Et tu, HuffPo?

What a terrible idea. I can understand them wanting some balance or introducing some right leaning voices to spur discussion but somebody who’s a proven liar is just stupid.

100 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:53:12pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

What a terrible idea. I can understand them wanting some balance or introducing some right leaning voices to spur discussion but somebody who’s a proven liar is just stupid.

“Teach the controversy”

101 blueraven  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:54:39pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

What a terrible idea. I can understand them wanting some balance or introducing some right leaning voices to spur discussion but somebody who’s a proven liar is just stupid.

controversy=site hits

Journalism is dead there.

102 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:54:44pm

re: #98 HoosierHoops

I’m Rick James Bitch!

You know, lack of proper punctuation can lead to that being read in several ways.

103 TedStriker  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:56:13pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know, lack of proper punctuation can lead to that being read in several ways.

True…that could in several directions, a few of them unpleasant ;-P

104 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:57:40pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know, lack of proper punctuation can lead to that being read in several ways.


eats shoots and leaves

105 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:57:40pm

re: #103 talon_262

True…that could in several directions, a few of them unpleasant ;-P

Well, the unpleasantness factor would depend on one’s personal preferences.

106 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 2:58:28pm

re: #104 ralphieboy

eats shoots and leaves

Are you ready to eat grandma?

107 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:01:13pm

re: #105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, the unpleasantness factor would depend on one’s personal preferences.

well..I could tell you about a party I was at once about I’m Rick James Bitch going on.. But upon further review..I’d better not

108 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:03:09pm

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Are you ready to eat grandma?

is she made of bamboo?

109 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:05:51pm

re: #70 RadicalModerate

It’s official. After the Huffington Post was acquired by AOL, they have lost their fucking minds.

Andrew Breitbart, Among Others, Now Writing for Huffington Post

Yes, not only is the conservative agitator now blogging on the formerly iconographic liberal website, he’s using the site to credit his propensity for “honest debate.”

Honest like taking out-of-context videos of Shirley Sherrod, putting them online and–knowingly mind you–falsely accusing her of being a racist?

Et tu, HuffPo?

Andrew Breitbart was involved in the startup of Huffington Post, although I’m not sure exactly what he did - some unspecified technical stuff, I think. The relationship goes way back.

110 The Yankee  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:11:34pm

I just wanted to commit the sin of down pinging Charles to see what would happen…..waiting for lightening.

111 HoosierHoops  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:16:10pm

re: #110 The Yankee

I just wanted to commit the sin of down pinging Charles to see what would happen…waiting for lightening.

Do you really think you have enough gravity that he would even notice you?

112 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:23:42pm

What I don’t get about these parents who want creationism taught to other people’s kids, as well as their own; why? Why isn’t you teaching your own kid, at home, that creationism is nifty, good enough? Why do you have to make the state teach your religion as well— both to your own and other kids?

Why not just wait for your kid to get home and say, “All that science is a load of crap, here’s what we believe?”

Is it out of fear that, oh, say, science is actually really damn credible and if you allow kids to be exposed to it, they’re less vulnerable to believe what you tell them to?

113 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:27:48pm

re: #112 Obdicut


Is it out of fear that, oh, say, science is actually really damn credible and if you allow kids to be exposed to it, they’re less vulnerable to believe what you tell them to?

Yes.

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:31:57pm

A state legislator in Arizona tried to pass a stealth creationism bill that would make it illegal to force students to learn anything that conflicted with their religious beliefs.

A satirist presented the following dialogue:

Teacher: What’s two plus two?
Billy: Five!
T: No, it’s four.
B: But my daddy believes that two plus two makes five and the law says you cannot force me to learn it otherwise!
T: But Billy, two plus two equals four is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of objective reality!
B: My daddy says he doesn’t believe in objective reality!

115 Kid A  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:46:27pm

re: #114 ralphieboy

A state legislator in Arizona tried to pass a stealth creationism bill that would make it illegal to force students to learn anything that conflicted with their religious beliefs.

A satirist presented the following dialogue:

Teacher: What’s two plus two?
Billy: Five!
T: No, it’s four.
B: But my daddy believes that two plus two makes five and the law says you cannot force me to learn it otherwise!
T: But Billy, two plus two equals four is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of objective reality!
B: My daddy says he doesn’t believe in objective reality!

116 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:46:48pm

re: #114 ralphieboy

A state legislator in Arizona tried to pass a stealth creationism bill that would make it illegal to force students to learn anything that conflicted with their religious beliefs.

A satirist presented the following dialogue:

Teacher: What’s two plus two?
Billy: Five!
T: No, it’s four.
B: But my daddy believes that two plus two makes five and the law says you cannot force me to learn it otherwise!
T: But Billy, two plus two equals four is not a matter of belief, it is a matter of objective reality!
B: My daddy says he doesn’t believe in objective reality!

they’re only trying to destroy public education, what’s wrong with that?

117 Political Atheist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:56:50pm

Japan update from US head of the NRC-About exposed fuel rods that have no water covering them-

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

“This is a situation where people may be called in to sacrifice their lives. … It’s very difficult for me to contemplate that but it’s, it may have reached that point.”

118 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 3:58:27pm

re: #117 Rightwingconspirator

Japan update from US head of the NRC-About exposed fuel rods that have no water covering them-

[Link: www.cnn.com…]

“This is a situation where people may be called in to sacrifice their lives. … It’s very difficult for me to contemplate that but it’s, it may have reached that point.”

Fuck.

119 second nature  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:06:44pm

re: #1 Dreggas

I prefer to rebut that argument with: if most Americans are descended from Europeans, why are there still Europeans?

Or, if salt is sodium and chloride, why do we still have sodium and chloride?

120 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:06:51pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Fuck.

No disrespect KT…but I think you meant FUCKED!!
…as in many hundreds if not thousands of people!!

121 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:10:10pm

re: #119 second nature

Welcome, hatchling.

122 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:10:55pm

re: #118 Killgore Trout

Fuck.

To the mega. This is really bad.

123 The Yankee  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:11:13pm

Is the best place to donate money The Red Cross.

I just heard on NPR that Japan is so well prepared and they are already receiving so much help that it is hard to tell what they actually need.

124 The Yankee  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:12:55pm

This is what the Rods they are talking about looks like.

125 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:14:33pm

re: #124 The Yankee

Maddow has been getting a lot of kudos from scientific organizations for her reporting on this.

126 RadicalModerate  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:17:27pm

re: #109 Charles

Andrew Breitbart was involved in the startup of Huffington Post, although I’m not sure exactly what he did - some unspecified technical stuff, I think. The relationship goes way back.

He was one of Ariana Hufffington’s story researchers. Afterward, he hooked up with Matt Drudge, and the rest, as they say, is history.
Breitbart.com has Drudge to thank for its success

Also, his stint with HuffPo was back around 2005, and Brietbart had not gotten any sort of reputation he has now of fabrication of stories, “creative” video editing, race-baiting dogwhistles, or any of the other assortment of things that have absolutely destroyed his credibility.

One more detail. Remember in the fallout from James O’Keefe’s arrest and subsequent conviction in the Sen. Mary Landrieu fiasco where Brietbart had stated that he was no longer going to associate himself with O’Keefe?

He lied.
Check out who he’s trumpeting in the very first sentence of his first Huffington Post article

127 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:21:41pm

OT: Not sure if this is old news.

Clinton won’t seek second stint as secretary

US secretary of state Hillary Clinton says she has no desire to continue in the job if president Barack Obama wins a second term in 2012.

When Ms Clinton was asked in a CNN interview during a trip to Cairo if she wanted a second stint as America’s top diplomat, she was clear.

“No,” she answered and then moved on to rule out future jobs as defence secretary, vice president or even president of the United States.

“I have the best job ever,” Ms Clinton said, saying the world was changing so quickly “it’s almost hard to catch our breath”.

“I want to be part of helping to represent the US at this critical moment in time, to do everything I can in support of the president and the government, to stand for values and ideals and stand up for America’s interest.”

But Ms Clinton says she is not interested in the presidency.

“I had a wonderful experience running. I’m very proud of the support and the opportunity, but I’m going to be moving on,” she said.

Mr Obama beat Ms Clinton in the battle for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination.

Ms Clinton, who has been both US first lady and a US senator, has said she has no plans to run again for president and that her current job would probably be her last in public service.

She has suggested her next role may be as an advocate for women around the world.

- Reuters

128 blueraven  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:32:48pm

re: #127 ozbloke

She will be hard to replace!

129 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:37:00pm

re: #128 blueraven

She will be hard to replace!

I was wondering who Obama might put up, it may influence the next election.
I would have preferred it if Hilary had of waited become announcing a retirement.

130 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:41:15pm

Can any one with any knowledge tell me how the reactors that have had hydrogen explosions large enough to lift off the roofs and blow off walls, would not also be large enough to displace all the water from the spent rod pools?

Also for those interested there is a live Geiger counter from Tokyo here.

131 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:51:23pm

Anyone know Tokyo’s normal background radiation levels?

132 quiet reader  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:51:37pm

re: #130 ozbloke

Can any one with any knowledge tell me how the reactors that have had hydrogen explosions large enough to lift off the roofs and blow off walls, would not also be large enough to displace all the water from the spent rod pools?

Also for those interested there is a live Geiger counter from Tokyo here.

Here is my guess… since hydrogen is lighter than air, the explosion occurred high above the pool and the downward force of the explosion would hold the water in the pool, not blow it out. Water doesn’t compress and the blast wave would be pushing down on the water.
What amazes me is that the hydrogen explosion was able to blow 25 foot holes in reinforced concrete that was several feet thick.

133 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:56:26pm

re: #132 quiet reader

Here is my guess… since hydrogen is lighter than air, the explosion occurred high above the pool and the downward force of the explosion would hold the water in the pool, not blow it out. Water doesn’t compress and the blast wave would be pushing down on the water.
What amazes me is that the hydrogen explosion was able to blow 25 foot holes in reinforced concrete that was several feet thick.

Thanks quiet reader,

I’m not sure of the space between the top of the pool and the ceiling, from the images I have seen I would not think it was more than 100 feet.
Believe me, I ain’t no scientist, but if it can blow off the roof and walls, reinforced concrete, I cant see how the water would not be displaced.

It may just be me being morbid.

134 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:56:38pm

re: #130 ozbloke

Can any one with any knowledge tell me how the reactors that have had hydrogen explosions large enough to lift off the roofs and blow off walls, would not also be large enough to displace all the water from the spent rod pools?
[snip]

The building roofs and outer walls are not nearly as massive and strong as the pool(s) and secondary and primary containment structures. The water is pretty massive too. (Or should be.) The main function of the roof and outer walls (besides being a barrier to wind, rain, hail, lightning, etc) is to support a small negative pressure for the whole interior, as a last line of defense against radiation reaching the outside. Whatever air leaks in would eventually passed thru filters/scrubbers before returning to the outside.

135 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 4:59:55pm

Book bomb posted to liberal Muslim activist injures four


The officer was not careful in handling the package,’ police spokesman Anton Bachrul Alam said, referring to the local police chief detective who lost an arm in the blast.

US-educated Abdalla, known for his campaign to promote religious pluralism in mainly-Muslim Indonesia, said he did not know if he had been targeted.

‘I have many friends and I don’t know if I have enemies,’ Abdalla told TV One.

Some conservative Muslims have criticized Abdalla’s work with the Islamic Liberal Network, accusing him of peddling liberal Western values.


Disturbing video….

Tuesday’s bomb was hidden in a book entitled:
“They Deserved to be Killed: Because of their Sins to Islam and Muslims.”
4 people were injured.

136 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:05:00pm

re: #134 abolitionist

The building roofs and outer walls are not nearly as massive and strong as the pool(s) and secondary and primary containment structures. The water is pretty massive too. (Or should be.) The main function of the roof and outer walls (besides being a barrier to wind, rain, hail, lightning, etc) is to support a small negative pressure for the whole interior, as a last line of defense against radiation reaching the outside. Whatever air leaks in would eventually passed thru filters/scrubbers before returning to the outside.

Thanks abolitionist,
My concern was that the pools are not covered, not their wall strength.
If the water is/was blown out, the spent fuel rods would be exposed to the air.

I think I heard Rachael Maddow say the pools were 40’x 40’.

137 albusteve  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:05:38pm

re: #128 blueraven

She will be hard to replace!

thank goodness…she’s a dolt

138 Stanley Sea  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:08:14pm

re: #137 albusteve

thank goodness…she’s a dolt

hahaha. Hi Steve!

Do you play the NCAA brackets? I’m filling out #3 now.

139 abolitionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:09:58pm

re: #131 Varek Raith

Anyone know Tokyo’s normal background radiation levels?

When the link for the camera-on-geiger-counter first appeared on lgf, it was reading 13 dot something, iirc. Now about 14.4

I’ve no clue as to the accuracy or authenticity of this service; Total views: 395,432

140 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:19:41pm

re: #139 abolitionist

When the link for the camera-on-geiger-counter first appeared on lgf, it was reading 13 dot something, iirc. Now about 14.4

I’ve no clue as to the accuracy or authenticity of this service; Total views: 395,432

From my limited research, anything over 120cpm is considered serious.

141 b_sharp  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:23:09pm

M-O-O-N, that spells stupid.

142 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:27:14pm

re: #112 Obdicut

What I don’t get about these parents who want creationism taught to other people’s kids, as well as their own; why? Why isn’t you teaching your own kid, at home, that creationism is nifty, good enough? Why do you have to make the state teach your religion as well— both to your own and other kids?

Why not just wait for your kid to get home and say, “All that science is a load of crap, here’s what we believe?”

Is it out of fear that, oh, say, science is actually really damn credible and if you allow kids to be exposed to it, they’re less vulnerable to believe what you tell them to?

Yes, and also anger that society does not officially privilege your religion over others.

143 blueraven  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 5:33:03pm

re: #137 albusteve

thank goodness…she’s a dolt

You may not like her, but she is hardly a dolt. That is ridiculous statement.

144 cat-tikvah  Wed, Mar 16, 2011 7:53:32pm

Oh Lord, answer me this one:
Why do we still have morons like this if intelligent design is true?


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