Sarah Palin Overstates Cost of Libyan Operation by 700%

Basic math evades the half-governor
Wingnuts • Views: 29,596

Last night on the nation’s center of right wing propaganda, Fox News, Sarah Palin casually overstated the cost of the Libya intervention — by 700%.

Pentagon figures show that the Libyan operation cost about $600 million in the first seven days, but Palin told her pal Greta Van Susteren (and millions of Fox viewers who will now repeat it endlessly like robot parrots) that it cost that much every day.

Youtube Video

PALIN: And that’s the $600 million dollar-a-day question that is being asked now because that’s the cost incurred by Americans as we support the no-fly zone, which, of course, the no-fly zone, the intervention or enactment is turning into more than that.

Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand the Pentagon’s figures — or was she deliberately lying because she knew her audience would swallow her false claim without blinking?

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387 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:23:16am

Its a simple mistake with a simple answer.

She's not that bright and is prone to lying.

2 Four More Tears  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:23:56am

Remember how much Obama's trip to India cost us?

3 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:24:20am

32 WARSHIPS!

4 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:24:55am

Since when did the cost of war matter to the Right?

Oh, right, since Jan 20th, 2009.

5 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:25:04am

re: #3 Varek Raith

32 WARSHIPS!

And a caribou.

6 Four More Tears  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:25:20am

All this has happened before and will happen again...

7 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:25:39am

She was told there would be no math.

8 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:26:02am

She's in the ballpark. If the ball is the former planet Pluto, and the park is the solar system.

9 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:26:16am

its actually impressive what she's been able to do. The sheer volume of public speaking mis-steps (deliberate or intentional, doesn't matter), has allowed her free reign to say whatever she wants. Literally, she can make up whatever bullshit statistic that serves her purpose on the spot, and if its right, no one cares, if its wrong, it just gets put on top of the pile of bullshit she's been spouting for years. That's a pretty good place to be for someone like her.

The fact that being continuously wrong doesn't hurt her reputation political ambitions, is somewhat disconcerting.

10 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:26:17am

I'd be worried about that kind of cost, but as Dick Cheney once said... I think Reagan proved that deficits don't mater....

11 garhighway  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:26:20am

Team Evil versus Team Stupid.

Everyone has to pick a side.

12 elizajane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:26:25am

She's neither too stupid to understand, nor clever enough to make it into a deliberate lie. She's just lazy and glib.

I have a daughter who does the same kind of thing, constantly. But she is 15 years old and has never been a paid commentator on a major "news" channel.

13 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:26:38am

Actually, given the math scores of the collective US, most people are in sympathy with her, with the Asians all giving her a sarcastic look.

14 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:27:27am
Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand the Pentagon’s figures — or was she deliberately lying because she knew her audience would swallow her false claim without blinking?

Probably.

15 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:27:48am

re: #13 EmmmieG

Actually, given the math scores of the collective US, most people are in sympathy with her, with the Asians all giving her a sarcastic look.

I thought those guys were hispanic.

16 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:28:03am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought those guys were hispanic.

Samoans, maybe.

17 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:28:04am

re: #12 elizajane

She's neither too stupid to understand, nor clever enough to make it into a deliberate lie. She's just lazy and glib.

I have a daughter who does the same kind of thing, constantly. But she is 15 years old and has never been a paid commentator on a major "news" channel.

Get crackin'!! There's money to be made here!!

18 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:28:34am
19 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:06am

re: #16 EmmmieG

Samoans, maybe.

There was a thread a few days ago in which it was discussed that supposedly a fully-racially mixed person would look Samoan.

(Really? We'd all be that big? Samoans are not tiny people, and I'm not making fat jokes. I mean structurally.)

20 iossarian  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:07am

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought those guys were hispanic.

Those shifty foreigners, you can never be sure.

(Yes, I did get the reference.)

21 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:09am

I'd love to know what we're spending that much a day on, considering that the Iraq war is 250 million or so a day...
Well, Sarah?
/

22 Jeff In Ohio  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:11am

When a failed, 1/2 term governor can have a career in national politics, days are years.

23 McSpiff  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:12am

re: #3 Varek Raith

32 WARSHIPS!

President sends battleship to retrieve Fala!

24 garhighway  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:14am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Here's the whole segment: Palin Slams Obama's Libya Speech, Calls It 'Post-American'

"Post-American"?

Sounds like a good name for a newspaper.

25 jaunte  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:20am
Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand the Pentagon’s figures — or was she deliberately lying


Both seem to be working for her; she's a uniter!

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:29:47am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Here's the whole segment: Palin Slams Obama's Libya Speech, Calls It 'Post-American'

How interesting. It's the Sarah Palin-Pamela Geller convergence. That's the name of Geller's crappy book.

27 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:30:18am

re: #24 garhighway

"Post-American"?

Sounds like a good name for a newspaper.

It's becoming a favorite wingnut talking point about the New World Order.

28 nines09  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:30:27am

Yeah. There. Yeah. How about that. Yeah. Sufferin Succotash!

29 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:30:51am

re: #26 Charles

How interesting. It's the Sarah Palin-Pamela Geller convergence. That's the name of Geller's crappy book.

Ah, I thought I recognized that phrase from somewhere.

30 iossarian  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:31:35am

re: #27 Killgore Trout

It's becoming a favorite wingnut talking point about the New World Order.

It's the core conservative fear that the position of power will be lost, that the "other" will have to have a seat at the table.

31 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:31:39am

Hell, even at $600 million a day, we'd have to be there for 5 years before we came close to the combined cost of Afghanistan and Iraq. If we're still there in 5 years, then the Right will have a point.

32 garhighway  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:31:42am

If Obama is "post-American", is Sarah "pre-American"?

33 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:34:20am

re: #11 garhighway

Can I pick stupid evil?

34 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:35:04am

The Lie is out there and it will become part of the Bigger Truth

35 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:35:08am

re: #33 aagcobb

Can I pick stupid evil?

Yes, it's "Chaotic Evil".

36 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:35:08am

re: #32 garhighway

If Obama is "post-American", is Sarah "pre-American"?

William Bradford was pre-American, but we don't need to get into that.

37 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:35:51am

That Palin interview is tough to watch, They keep saying the same thing over and over for 10 minutes. It should have been a 2 minute segment, after that they ran out of things to say.

38 jaunte  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:35:57am
"He did not make the case for this intervention. U.S. interests have got to be met if we are going to intervene. And U.S. interests can’t just mean validating some kind of post-American theory of intervention wherein we wait for the Arab League and the United Nations to tell us ‘thumbs up America, you can go now, you can act’, and then we get in the back of the bus and we wait for NATO, we wait for the French to lead us. That’s not inspirational."


It's not even real!

39 Randy W. Weeks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:36:01am

I think she's just stupid.

40 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:36:11am

Mathematically:

Obama/Dems propose policy X, with stated benefits a, b, c.

Republicans reflexively label X as unamerican, and demand a policy of -X be put into place.

Obama/Dems "compromise," first by proposing X/2, then X/4, then X/8 as republicans move goalposts on national television.

Finally, a bill something like X/1000 with benefits a/1000, b/1000, c/1000 is passed after many months, apocalyptic proclamations from R's.

Later, they claim that it was all a waste of time since it had limited to no benefit on the Americans lives.

41 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:36:55am

re: #35 Varek Raith

Yes, it's "Chaotic Evil".

Grazz't is most displeased with you.

42 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:37:17am

re: #39 LoneStarSpur

I think she's just stupid.

Unfortunately, having a room temperature IQ does not disqualify one from being a politician. If it did, Washington DC would be a ghost town.

43 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:37:50am
Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand the Pentagon’s figures — or was she deliberately lying because she knew her audience would swallow her false claim without blinking?

Should I be experiencing cognitive dissonance if I believe both might be the case? Because I'm not.

44 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:39:31am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Grazz't is most displeased with you.

I always disagreed with his alignment. Didn't seem to fit his grand schemes.

45 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:40:38am

re: #19 EmmmieG

There was a thread a few days ago in which it was discussed that supposedly a fully-racially mixed person would look Samoan.

(Really? We'd all be that big? Samoans are not tiny people, and I'm not making fat jokes. I mean structurally.)

Hi--That was my Anthro school story (about a drunken party). The Samoans don't run all that tall--Males avg 5'7" and females 5'2' per this old, but good reference:

[Link: books.google.com...]

46 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:42:24am

re: #43 prononymous

I think the word is doublethink. Thank you, George Orwell, for providing us with the words to undertsand 21st Century American politics.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:45:22am

re: #2 JasonA

Remember how much Obama's trip to India cost us?

My children's children's children will still be paying the bills for that hotel in Mumbai.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:46:59am

re: #7 EmmmieG

She was told there would be no math.

Thing is, it is possible to misspeak. I was at a lecture on Sunday about the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, and someone referred to factory workers of the 'teens working 'seventy-five hours days'. The audience laughed, and she corrected herself. It was no big deal.

The problem is that there will be no correction, no retraction, and this number will now spread like wildfire across the whackosphere.

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:48:55am

re: #19 EmmmieG

There was a thread a few days ago in which it was discussed that supposedly a fully-racially mixed person would look Samoan.

(Really? We'd all be that big? Samoans are not tiny people, and I'm not making fat jokes. I mean structurally.)

Yeah, I did comment then that I think we might look Polynesian, but I think we'd be a bit smaller than that. Polynesians are big people, and Samoans are the extreme end of that. Them and Tongans. Big, strong folks.

50 recusancy  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:49:11am

I think a lot of the conservatives here would agree with this post.

...
Conservatism cannot be defined as whatever is the most extreme right-wing narrative of the moment. Time matters. Conservatism needs to be flexible enough a governing philosophy to be able to correct for conservative ideology itself. When such an ideology threatens fiscal balance, a prudent foreign policy, and a thriving middle class, it has become the enemy of real conservatism, not its friend.
51 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:52:06am

Sigh, later gators.
Bed, then night shift.
:/

52 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:52:36am

Odd Praise from Palin: At about 8:00 of the interviews she praises Obama for mentioning the North Star.

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:54:29am

Wow, in it was only a few weeks ago she was telling lies and distortions to get us into Libya. There is no pleasing some folks...

what I don't understand is how the GOP base has a memory like a goldfish. Come on Guys, it was less than a month ago that the GOP meme was get into Libya!

54 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:54:35am

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Odd Praise from Palin: At about 8:00 of the interviews she praises Obama for mentioning the North Star.

which I am guessing is the parent star for the planet that palin is actually from.
//

55 lostlakehiker  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:55:05am
Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand the Pentagon’s figures — or was she deliberately lying because she knew her audience would swallow her false claim without blinking?

Probably neither. Just lazy and casual about the facts. There's a number of 600M floating around. Grab it out of your head, grab the most impressive words to slap together with it to form a sort-of sentence, and get the words out.

New words will follow. Who cares if the numbers are correct or not? People don't like to pay close attention to details. Palin's one of the people. [Shades of SCOTUS nominee Harold Carswell.]

Just look at what's happening with food now. As raw materials prices rise, corporations must choose between losing money, raising prices on staples, or cutting the package size of staples while keeping the price constant. They choose the third option. The package looks the same. It's the same height, perhaps, with the same price. The only detail is the box is narrower, or not as full, and yeah, in the fine print, it says something like contents 14 oz (not 16 oz like it used to.)

56 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:55:48am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Wow, in it was only a few weeks ago she was telling lies and distortions to get us into Libya. There is no pleasing some folks...

what I don't understand is how the GOP base has a memory like a goldfish. Come on Guys, it was less than a month ago that the GOP meme was get into Libya!

It's not their memory that's at fault, it's their honesty. They know they wanted us to get into Libya, but that was when Obama seemed to be against doing so. Now that we're there, they have to tack against the wind, if only to be in opposition to him.

57 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:56:11am

re: #54 Dreggas

which I am guessing is the parent star for the planet that palin is actually from.
//

Palin is 100% Earthling. She simply genetically expresses her less mentally developed primate ancestry more than most.

58 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:56:22am

Tea Party Taking it to the D.C. Streets

The political movement that drove a busload of freshman lawmakers into office last fall will be revving up small-government feelings again this Thursday.

The Tea Party Patriots want to encourage Congress to keep pressing the pedal down on budget cuts with a noon rally on Capitol Hill.

"Members of Congress have abandoned their service to the people by passing continuing resolutions instead of cutting the $100 billion budget," said Tea Party Patriot representatives Mark Meckler and Jenny Beth Martin.

Tea Party notables Michelle Bachman and Mike Pence will be on hand to ratchet up support. The gathering will take place at the Robert A. Taft Memorial, northwest of the Capitol building.


Interesting choice of location. Any bets on how many wingnuts Americans for Prosperity can bus in? I'll guess 2-3,000 if they're lucky but I wouldn't be surprised to see crowds as small as 2-300.

59 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:56:25am

re: #46 aagcobb

I think the word is doublethink. Thank you, George Orwell, for providing us with the words to undertsand 21st Century American politics.

Another one applicable to Palin is duckspeak.

Duckspeak is a Newspeak term meaning literally to quack like a duck or to speak without thinking. Duckspeak can be either good or ungood, depending on who is speaking, and whether what they are saying is in following with the ideals of Big Brother and The Party. To speak rubbish and lies may be ungood, but to speak rubbish and lies for the good of The Party is generally good. Duckspeak does not involve the higher brain centers at all, instead only utilizing the larynx.

Winston had a curious feeling that this was not a real human being but some kind of dummy. It was not the man's brain that was speaking, it was his larynx. The stuff that was coming out of him consisted of words, but it was not speech in the true sense: it was noise uttered in unconsciousness, like the quacking of a duck.

60 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:58:10am

re: #56 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not their memory that's at fault, it's their honesty. They know they wanted us to get into Libya, but that was when Obama seemed to be against doing so. Now that we're there, they have to tack against the wind, if only to be in opposition to him.

Yes and that is obvious to anyone except the GOP base which seems to stay in a constant state of anger even when they are now getting what they were angry about. I understand that the Fox types are manipulating the mindless stupidity of a large sector of America. What I have a very hard time accepting is just how utterly robotic and unthinking that sector is.

61 makeitstop  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:58:14am

re: #54 Dreggas

which I am guessing is the parent star for the planet that palin is actually from.
//

According to this Vanity Fair piece, it's somewhat of a code name for Herself.

62 darthstar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:58:29am

She's lying again. Stop the presses! Palin's a fucking troll.

63 researchok  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:58:45am

re: #50 recusancy

I think a lot of the conservatives here would agree with this post.

Excellent link.

I would add progressives too, need to be mindful that politics and political agendas need to be more about substance than about trashing the opposition.

As my own politics have shifted, I must admit notwithstanding times the current liberal agenda- which at times makes good sense- I will reject because of the visceral reaction to all conservatives and conservative ideas.

Any agenda be it from the right or left which relies on trashing the 'other' as opposed to extolling the merits of the ideas is no agenda at all. It is dirty politics and business as usual.

64 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:59:19am
65 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:59:29am

re: #61 makeitstop

According to this Vanity Fair piece, it's somewhat of a code name for Herself.

So she is a narcissistic, self serving, bitch with delusions of grandeur... go figure.

66 Decatur Deb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:59:34am

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Odd Praise from Palin: At about 8:00 of the interviews she praises Obama for mentioning the North Star.

Which videos? Could the context or reference be significant to Alaska chauvinist types?

67 researchok  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 11:59:47am

re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote

Palin is 100% Earthling. She simply genetically expresses her less mentally developed primate ancestry more than most.

Updinged because you are in fine form.

All is well, I hope.

68 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:00:40pm

re: #50 recusancy

I think a lot of the conservatives here would agree with this post.

My Man - Eisenhower.

69 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:01:05pm

re: #40 EastSider

Mathematically:

Obama/Dems propose policy X, with stated benefits a, b, c.

Republicans reflexively label X as unamerican, and demand a policy of -X be put into place.

Obama/Dems "compromise," first by proposing X/2, then X/4, then X/8 as republicans move goalposts on national television.

Finally, a bill something like X/1000 with benefits a/1000, b/1000, c/1000 is passed after many months, apocalyptic proclamations from R's.

Later, they claim that it was all a waste of time since it had limited to no benefit on the Americans lives.

This!

Quoted for truth!

70 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:01:20pm

re: #67 researchok

Updinged because you are in fine form.

All is well, I hope.

Indeed! And you?

71 BishopX  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:01:41pm

Semi OT:

The Libyan rebel government posted a manifesto laying out their vision of what they're committed to working towards. They're calling for a US style separation of powers, free elections, recognition of the UN human rights declarations, universal suffrage, and the condemnation of terrorism.

It sounds like it was written by someone used to writing corporate mission statements.

72 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:01:53pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

There will be at least 1,000,000 real American Patriots at the rally, and Fox News will have the footage to prove it, no matter what lies the lamestream media tells.
/

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:02:25pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Tea Party Taking it to the D.C. Streets


Interesting choice of location. Any bets on how many wingnuts Americans for Prosperity can bus in? I'll guess 2-3,000 if they're lucky but I wouldn't be surprised to see crowds as small as 2-300.

Taft? Amazing!

74 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:02:48pm

re: #30 iossarian

It's the core conservative wingnut fear that the position of power will be lost, that the "other" will have to have a seat at the table.

Yet they think nothing but good will come from shoving mythology and superstition into the public school classrooms, all the while calling it SCIENCE!

75 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:03:38pm

re: #47 SanFranciscoZionist

My children's children's children will still be paying the bills for that hotel in Mumbai.

Unless the ocean gets it first.

You don't have to pay for what gets erased.

76 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:03:59pm

re: #73 LudwigVanQuixote

Taft? Amazing!

You'd figure the Harding memorial would be more fitting.

77 researchok  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:04:12pm

re: #70 LudwigVanQuixote

Indeed! And you?

I'm good. Working my butt off in a most nonproductive way.

Plus ca change...

78 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:05:07pm

re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote

Palin is 100% Earthling. She simply genetically expresses her less mentally developed primate ancestry more than most.

Ook, ook!

79 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:05:24pm

re: #75 b_sharp

Unless the ocean gets it first.

You don't have to pay for what gets erased.

Don't worry really, environmental pressures from lost crops and diminishing fresh water reserves coupled with the consequences of peak oil will crash both ours and India's economy before that happens.

80 recusancy  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:06:33pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

Odd Praise from Palin: At about 8:00 of the interviews she praises Obama for mentioning the North Star.

He was referencing Fredrick Douglas's newspaper.

81 lostlakehiker  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:07:02pm

re: #50 recusancy

I think a lot of the conservatives here would agree with this post.

I agree with the quoted paragraph. But the material not quoted, while factual, presents a somewhat one-sided picture.

For instance, on taxes, the top marginal rate is lower than it was in Ike's time. So the rich are getting a free ride? But if we look at the share of the federal income tax paid by the top 1 percent, I'd bet it's higher than in Ike's time. Or if we look at the share of the federal income tax paid by that fraction of the public, whatever it is, that made the top 10 percent of all the money? Again, I'd bet that top ten percent of money paid more of the taxes than in Ike's time, and certainly a higher fraction of it went to taxes.

Or look at income inequality. It's risen. But part of that has more to do with immigration trends than tax law, and anyhow, if one looks at consumption inequality, the many programs for the poor that did not exist in Ike's day now mitigate the inequality in pre-tax, pre-transfer income.

82 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:07:19pm

re: #80 recusancy

He was referencing Fredrick Douglas's newspaper.

...never mind.
/

83 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:08:25pm

OT...

Who here has played Dragon Age 2 yet?

84 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:08:26pm

re: #71 BishopX


It sounds like it was written by someone used to writing corporate mission statements.


It probably was. It was almost certainly written for the by a Western Government.

85 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:08:43pm

OT: "Ten Commandments" Judge Roy Moore is throwing his hat in the ring. Hopefully the theocratic vote will be so splintered in Iowa someone haflway sane might actually win.

86 researchok  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:08:47pm
87 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:09:14pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Don't worry really, environmental pressures from lost crops and diminishing fresh water reserves coupled with the consequences of peak oil will crash both ours and India's economy before that happens.

I'm setting up a perimeter of ninja seals and polar bears to protect our fresh water as we speak.

88 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:09:24pm

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

OT...

Who here has played Dragon Age 2 yet?

Nope, I'm still on Minecraft until Portal 2 comes out.

89 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:09:57pm

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

OT...

Who here has played Dragon Age 2 yet?

Holding off till they drop the price or release a special edition. Replaying FO:NV with Dead Money.

90 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:10:53pm

re: #81 lostlakehiker

Or look at income inequality. It's risen. But part of that has more to do with immigration trends than tax law, and anyhow, if one looks at consumption inequality, the many programs for the poor that did not exist in Ike's day now mitigate the inequality in pre-tax, pre-transfer income.

The tea party is working on correcting that.

91 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:11:38pm

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

OT...

Who here has played Dragon Age 2 yet?

Sorry, I haven't played a video game in, oh, a dragon's age.

Played it, hell I'm living it, I've been dragon my ass around for a dog's age.

92 Charleston Chew  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:11:45pm

re: #4 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Since when did the cost of war matter to the Right?

Oh, right, since Jan 20th, 2009.

A watershed moment for many of the GOP's so-called values. It's also the day they started caring about "limited executive power", "fiscal responsibility", the cost of foreign wars in people and money, privacy against gov snooping, and the rights of political minorities, to name a few.

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:12:52pm

re: #89 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Replaying FO:NV with Dead Money.

How do you like it?

94 Charleston Chew  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:15:06pm

re: #92 Charleston Chew

And I forgot Congressional investigations of the President's background and connections, holding up the appointment of various government office holders, and of course, the economy being all the fault of the sitting US President some how. All stuff they were against one day and for the next.

95 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:16:10pm

re: #89 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Holding off till they drop the price or release a special edition. Replaying FO:NV with Dead Money.

PC or console?

96 thecommodore  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:16:20pm
Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand the Pentagon’s figures — or was she deliberately lying because she knew her audience would swallow her false claim without blinking?

I don't think Palin is dim. She is mal-informed and incurious, with a penchant for telling easily proveable lies, so I'm inclined to say the latter.

She could tell her audience that we had been nuked, and they'd believe her, simply because she said so.

97 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:16:46pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

How do you like it?

Fallout NV is just awesome all around. Dead Money was creepy and hard as hell, mostly because I ended up needing to use skills I hadn't used very much before.

98 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:16:59pm

re: #95 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

PC or console?

PC

99 Stanghazi  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:17:13pm

Did you catch that she said "squirmish" instead of skirmish?

100 Charleston Chew  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:17:16pm

re: #83 LudwigVanQuixote

OT...

Who here has played Dragon Age 2 yet?

Mediocre reviews scared me off, but I wasn't into the 1st one that much. Prefer Mass Effect series.

101 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:17:58pm

Hey Ludwig, have you heard of this 12-year-old physics sensation?

102 Charleston Chew  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:18:47pm

re: #99 Stanley Sea

Did you catch that she said "squirmish" instead of skirmish?

I can think of a few people I wouldn't mind getting into a squirmish with, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. Involves baby oil, right?

103 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:19:02pm

re: #18 Killgore Trout

Here's the whole segment: Palin Slams Obama's Libya Speech, Calls It 'Post-American'

This kind of "Post-American", or is there some wingnut meme that uses that phrase?

104 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:19:41pm

re: #97 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How does it compare to FO3? Assuming you've played that one.

105 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:20:27pm

re: #99 Stanley Sea

Did you catch that she said "squirmish" instead of skirmish?


She was comparing the Libyan invasion to the sport of 43-man Squamish

[Link: www.madcoversite.com...]

106 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:22:40pm
107 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:23:04pm

re: #104 Slumbering Behemoth

How does it compare to FO3? Assuming you've played that one.

They cleaned up a lot of the mechanics and its a much smoother game. I used to get a lot of problems with FO3 crashing every couple of hours, nothing like that with NV.

I still can't bring myself to side with House yet, so I haven't seen that ending. I just ran it in bastard mode and got a total victory for The Legion.

108 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:23:28pm

re: #106 Dreggas

BWAHAHAHA

Roy Moore is gonna run for president

Awesome. This just gets better and better. The wingnut freakshow is going to be epic.

109 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:26:44pm

re: #101 Alouette

A real life Sheldon!

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:28:57pm

re: #86 researchok

It never ends.

More Israeli atrocities the MSM ignores.

Oh, how nice. That went up on my Facebook page.

111 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:28:58pm

re: #101 Alouette

Hey Ludwig, have you heard of this 12-year-old physics sensation?

I would so be this boy's butler..... in the hope that by being in close proximity a process not unlike osmosis would enable my cranium power to increase.

Please, call me Alfred.

All kidding aside, how remarkable. And how hopeful I am of his future and the awesomeness he will impart to Science.

112 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:29:12pm

re: #98 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

PC

Ah, then be sure to keep your quicksave button handy and use it often. Else you're going to find yourself doing a lot of replaying. Lost count of how many times I lost my head in just the Villa alone.

113 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:29:56pm
114 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:30:36pm

oh speaking of games. Rift is awesome.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:31:06pm

re: #103 Lidane

This kind of "Post-American", or is there some wingnut meme that uses that phrase?

I think Fareed Zakaria coined the term for that book. (Which I still need to read.) It absolutely pissed off wingnuts. Then Pam called her book the "The Post-American Presidency", and it became a slam on Obama's presumed lack of Americaninity.

116 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:32:06pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

I think Fareed Zakaria coined the term for that book. (Which I still need to read.) It absolutely pissed off wingnuts. Then Pam called her book the "The Post-American Presidency", and it became a slam on Obama's presumed lack of Americaninity.

I haven't read the book, what does the term mean in context? Is it something like living in a world post American unilateral hegemony?

117 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:32:43pm

re: #107 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In FO3 it seemed to me that it was too easy to become a "master of all trades" in the skills dept. Has that changed in FO:NV?

118 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:32:44pm

re: #114 Dreggas

oh speaking of games. Rift is awesome.

I wouldn't mind trying Rift, but grad school is kicking my ass. I'm saving up my MMO time for Star Wars: The Old Republic.

119 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:34:25pm

re: #112 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ah, then be sure to keep your quicksave button handy and use it often. Else you're going to find yourself doing a lot of replaying. Lost count of how many times I lost my head in just the Villa alone.

Learned that in the Police station. I was like "WTH was that?"

And the first time one of the Ghost People got back up was a kick in the nuts with my 20% melee and unarmed skill.

120 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:35:09pm

re: #116 EastSider

I haven't read the book, what does the term mean in context? Is it something like living in a world post American unilateral hegemony?

I haven't read it either, but yes, that's essentially my understanding. The new economy and political balance in which other powers are rising. Zakaria's line is that this is not about the decline of America, 'but the rise of everyone else'. The age of China and India developing into world powers, the whole shift we're going through.

121 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:36:25pm

re: #116 EastSider

I haven't read the book, what does the term mean in context? Is it something like living in a world post American unilateral hegemony?

Zakaria's point in using that phrase is that because of America's spread of liberal democracy around the world, we've now got competition on the world stage in terms of economic, industrial, and cultural power. We're not the only game in town anymore. IIRC, he makes the case that while we have reason to be optimistic, the world is changing around us, and that the balance of power is shifting:

"The world is moving from anger to indifference, from anti-Americanism to post-Americanism. The fact that new powers are more strongly asserting their interests is the reality of the post-American world. It also raises the political conundrum of how to achieve international objectives in a world of many actors, state and nonstate."

122 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:36:25pm

re: #117 Slumbering Behemoth

In FO3 it seemed to me that it was too easy to become a "master of all trades" in the skills dept. Has that changed in FO:NV?

Yeah, fewer skill books, a perk only every even level instead of every level, and most perks give bonuses other than skill point boosts.

123 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:36:44pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Learned that in the Police station. I was like "WTH was that?"

And the first time one of the Ghost People got back up was a kick in the nuts with my 20% melee and unarmed skill.

Yeah, I was real thankful when I found the Police Revolver and the code in the Police Station for .38 rounds. The Holorifle's sweet, but finding ammo for it is like looking for the proverbial needle in a hay stack.

124 sproingie  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:37:08pm

I finally just started playing DAO a couple weeks ago, and havent even gotten through the whole game yet, let alone the DLC and the expansion, so I've got a little while to go before I grab DA2. The story in DAO feels really quite epic, so I'm kind of anxious whether DA2 can live up to it. Going with only a single origin story on one hand can make for a more coherent story overall, I suppose, but it damn sure better be an interesting one.

I just love the hell out of my character in DAO though: a female dwarf noble rogue. Absolute badass (duelist/assassin), does almost 2/3 of the party damage, and she's cute! No bearded raspy-voiced dwarf women here; no voice at all other than her sarcastic remarks in battle and command responses. Guess I'd rather have a silent protagonist than one with an annoying voice...

I hope they improved the repertoire of dialog gestures though... Though I just about fell out of my chair laughing last night watching Kolgrim's awesome overacting, complete with pacing and his "Milking The Giant Cow" gestures. Not sure that was supposed to be a funny scene...

125 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:38:18pm

re: #111 Ericus58

I would so be this boy's butler... in the hope that by being in close proximity a process not unlike osmosis would enable my cranium power to increase.

Please, call me Alfred.

All kidding aside, how remarkable. And how hopeful I am of his future and the awesomeness he will impart to Science.

My grandson is also a genius, although more of an "Evil Overlord" kind of way. He will so have this kid as one of his henchmen.

126 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:38:28pm

The last video game I played was Doom. I have a nice PC sitting downstairs that I use for virtual-pcs and soon music (I hope), that sits idle most of the time.

What would be a good game to start with, that will get me off this damn laptop?

127 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:39:35pm

re: #126 b_sharp

The last video game I played was Doom. I have a nice PC sitting downstairs that I use for virtual-pcs and soon music (I hope), that sits idle most of the time.

What would be a good game to start with, that will get me off this damn laptop?

Any genre in particular? What kind of games appeal to you?

128 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:39:53pm

re: #123 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I was real thankful when I found the Police Revolver and the code in the Police Station for .38 rounds. The Holorifle's sweet, but finding ammo for it is like looking for the proverbial needle in a hay stack.

The depleted cells were all around, but you had to get to a table to recharge them.

I was so happy when I got the shotgun, but of course by then, I didn't need it. The Sierra Madre armor is awesome though, plus the assassin suit.

129 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:39:54pm

re: #113 Dreggas

He said "I think" that Obama was born in Hawaii, so he's still trying to stay on the good side of the Birthers.

130 BishopX  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:40:58pm

re: #126 b_sharp

Dwarf fortress.

131 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:41:32pm

re: #129 aagcobb

He said "I think" that Obama was born in Hawaii, so he's still trying to stay on the good side of the Birthers.

Yeah. He's hedging his bets there by saying he thinks Obama was born here. If he was serious about cutting ties with the birther idiots, he'd say that he trusted the State of Hawaii and the United States government, who both agree that Barack Obama is an American citizen.

132 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:42:18pm

re: #120 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #121 Lidane

Thanks. I suppose I understand then how this could be used as a political slur on Obama. Not that I agree with the logic (we have had a smaller GDP growth % than China/India for a while, and that kind of math shouldn't be hard to follow).

Its interesting that our changing (diminishing) role internationally requires almost more management and attention domestically than it does abroad.

It is a bit sad to realize that when I'm a senior citizen we won't be the/a superpower, but the sooner we realize we can't have everything and impose our will everywhere all the time, the quicker we start enacting rational policies.

133 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:42:19pm

re: #125 Alouette

My grandson is also a genius, although more of an "Evil Overlord" kind of way. He will so have this kid as one of his henchmen.

Lol. Sounds..... fun!

Hey, what happened to LVQ? He read that article and split.....

..... you don't suppose he's donning a wig and struggling into a pair of depends do ya?!

/I Kid!!

134 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:42:31pm

re: #130 BishopX

Dwarf fortress.

You are evil.

135 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:43:43pm

re: #127 Lidane

Any genre in particular? What kind of games appeal to you?

Good question. I used to play Doom, Hexen and liked them. I have no idea what is available now.

136 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:43:49pm

re: #128 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The depleted cells were all around, but you had to get to a table to recharge them.

I was so happy when I got the shotgun, but of course by then, I didn't need it. The Sierra Madre armor is awesome though, plus the assassin suit.

Yeah, the Assassin suit was a godsend, if only because the stealth criticals came in real handy against the Ghost People. That and I quickly found the benefit of food all over again, after getting reliant on stimpaks in the Wasteland.

137 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:44:22pm

re: #135 b_sharp

Good question. I used to play Doom, Hexen and liked them. I have no idea what is available now.

Bioshock.

A graphically amazing first person shooter with a plot that is head and shoulders among most of the ones you'll find in games of that type...

138 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:44:42pm

re: #134 Obdicut

You are evil.

Should I ask why you say that?

139 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:44:58pm

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, fewer skill books, a perk only every even level instead of every level, and most perks give bonuses other than skill point boosts.

That's more like the original FO games. On my last run through of FO3, I came to dread leveling up. It was just getting too damn easy, even with the difficulty level jacked up. Most of the perks were pretty lame as well.

140 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:45:52pm

re: #135 b_sharp

Good question. I used to play Doom, Hexen and liked them. I have no idea what is available now.

Not much has changed since doom. The graphics are better and they clog up the game with boring and tired storylines but everything is pretty much the same. There are some innovative games out there but not many.

141 researchok  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:46:28pm

re: #126 b_sharp

The last video game I played was Doom. I have a nice PC sitting downstairs that I use for virtual-pcs and soon music (I hope), that sits idle most of the time.

What would be a good game to start with, that will get me off this damn laptop?

Chess

142 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:47:21pm

re: #132 EastSider

It's an interesting book. I listened to the audio version back in undergrad, since my BBA is in International Business. Zakaria makes some good arguments. I don't know that I completely subscribe to what he was saying, but it's very true that the balance of power is shifting. We can't ignore BRIC, nor can we keep trying to impose our will alone on everyone else.

Of course, that would set the wingnuts off. We're exceptional, don'tcha know. Nobody should be allowed to encroach on our turf.

143 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:47:45pm

re: #139 Slumbering Behemoth

That's more like the original FO games. On my last run through of FO3, I came to dread leveling up. It was just getting too damn easy, even with the difficulty level jacked up. Most of the perks were pretty lame as well.

Yeah, that's another thing I like about NV, the return of damage thresholds and selectable ammo types. By the end of FO3, I could take down a Deathclaw with one or two shots from a mid-level weapons, simply because my skills and bonuses were maxed out. In NV, I try that, and I'm going to quickly find myself missing a few innards.

144 b_sharp  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:48:17pm

re: #141 researchok

Chess

Would I need a joystick or a mouse for that?

145 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:48:22pm

re: #124 sproingie

Since I got Rift I haven't even looked at other games. I know DA2 came out, still wonder how it is since I didn't even bother with the Demo.

146 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:49:30pm

re: #138 b_sharp

Should I ask why you say that?

Dwarf Fortress addiction-starting is a terrible thing to inflict on a man.

147 researchok  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:49:32pm

re: #144 b_sharp

Would I need a joystick or a mouse for that?

3D goggles.

148 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:51:26pm

re: #118 Lidane

I wouldn't mind trying Rift, but grad school is kicking my ass. I'm saving up my MMO time for Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Rift is really good. It's easy to use interface wise and is pretty fresh when it comes to new ideas about storylines etc. They also have regular world events, usually on weekends, so if you have time you can be involved. Nothing like repelling an invasion from the plane of water and having to close a ton of major rifts, kill lots of invading monsters and do a huge boss fight while in a raid consisting of nothing but random players.

Further if a rift opens and you go into where the opening is you can join a public group and no need to LFG save for instances. PvP is pretty good, if somewhat standard.

149 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:51:57pm

re: #132 EastSider

That couldn't last forever, nor should we want it to, because a world in which other nations aren't advancing is a world in which billions of people are descending deeper into misery. Plus, people here who are all paranoid about the rise of China should keep in mind that China's neighbors are going to be much more concerned about its increasing military might than we are, and it will push nations like India, Korea, Vietnam and Japan closer to us to counter-balance China.

150 avanti  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:52:10pm

re: #113 Dreggas

Uh-oh. T-Paw is gonna lose the crazy vote

The right wing blogs are writing him off as we speak. He's too PC to not question Obama's citizenship./

151 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:52:14pm

re: #145 Dreggas

Since I got Rift I haven't even looked at other games. I know DA2 came out, still wonder how it is since I didn't even bother with the Demo.

Rift is stealing from WoW.
The combination of Cata being too demanding in Instances and Raids as compared to RoTL for Wow, and Rift being a superb, polished product - a sweet spot for a new MMO to go live.

The end result is harsh on some of the Realms - guilds are folding.

152 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:52:20pm

re: #143 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, that's another thing I like about NV, the return of damage thresholds and selectable ammo types. By the end of FO3, I could take down a Deathclaw with one or two shots from a mid-level weapons, simply because my skills and bonuses were maxed out. In NV, I try that, and I'm going to quickly find myself missing a few innards.

Now the real question; have you tried running it in pacifist mode? You can't do it with Dead Money, but you can complete the entire core game without ever firing a shot in anger and relying on your companions to keep you safe.

153 one2  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:52:22pm

Overstating the cost by a factor of 7 actually equates to overstating it by 600%. Not 700%. More basic math!

154 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:53:11pm

re: #143 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, that's another thing I like about NV, the return of damage thresholds and selectable ammo types. By the end of FO3, I could take down a Deathclaw with one or two shots from a mid-level weapons, simply because my skills and bonuses were maxed out. In NV, I try that, and I'm going to quickly find myself missing a few innards.

That does sound promising, but as always I'll wait 'til the GOTY edition comes bundled with all the DLCs, and drops to $30. I'm a cheapskate, that's just how I roll.

155 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:54:08pm

re: #149 aagcobb

That couldn't last forever, nor should we want it to, because a world in which other nations aren't advancing is a world in which billions of people are descending deeper into misery. Plus, people here who are all paranoid about the rise of China should keep in mind that China's neighbors are going to be much more concerned about its increasing military might than we are, and it will push nations like India, Korea, Vietnam and Japan closer to us to counter-balance China.

relevant:

156 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:54:18pm

re: #153 one2

Overstating the cost by a factor of 7 actually equates to overstating it by 600%. Not 700%. More basic math!

And you came out of cover for that?

157 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:54:37pm

re: #153 one2

All this time, lying in wait to strike..... wasted on that post.
Fail.

158 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:55:04pm

re: #151 Ericus58

Rift is stealing from WoW.
The combination of Cata being too demanding in Instances and Raids as compared to RoTL for Wow, and Rift being a superb, polished product - a sweet spot for a new MMO to go live.

The end result is harsh on some of the Realms - guilds are folding.

Like the commercial for Rift says, You're not in Azeroth anymore. It really is a superb MMO. I have a Ranger/Marksman/Nightblade I am running currently and he is pretty bad ass. He's Defiant/Kelari.

It's really cool to look across a field and suddenly see a rift open up from the plane of death/water etc. and then be able to go right in with people.

159 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:55:18pm

re: #72 aagcobb

There will be at least 1,000,000 real American Patriots at the rally, and Fox News will have the footage to prove it, no matter what lies the lamestream media tells.
/

And they will be bringing their own palm trees...
/

160 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:55:45pm

re: #157 Ericus58

All this time, lying in wait to strike... wasted on that post.
Fail.

"OK, dont fuck this up...don't fuck this up...FUCK, I FUCKED UP!"

161 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:56:25pm

re: #152 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Now the real question; have you tried running it in pacifist mode? You can't do it with Dead Money, but you can complete the entire core game without ever firing a shot in anger and relying on your companions to keep you safe.

I've been considering trying it on Hardcore Mode, but I'm afraid of watching my companions die because I made a bad choice. Not that I had them drop a lot in Normal Mode, but still.

162 BishopX  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:56:41pm

re: #146 Obdicut

It's considerably less addicting than most MMO's, even it does leave you doodling fortress layouts and trap designs on napkins at dinner. Its also more fun.

163 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:57:08pm

re: #157 Ericus58

All this time, lying in wait to strike... wasted on that post.
Fail.

Hey if he's factually correct in his statements then I don't see why we should be beating the guy up...

Granted I'm a catnip smoking kum-bi-ah singing can't we all just get along liberal, but I still feel we might be going overboard...

164 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:57:23pm

oh and for those who like atheists vs. deists Rift has that. The Guardians are all the deists (and responsible for the bad guy getting out) and the Defiants are all the tech types who use technology and magick.

165 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:57:53pm

re: #155 EastSider

Typical paranoid right-wing fantasy, combined with lies, like that we tried to tax our way out of the Recession, when Obama actually cut taxes.

166 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 12:58:32pm

re: #153 one2

Overstating the cost by a factor of 7 actually equates to overstating it by 600%. Not 700%. More basic math!

And this lie will be repeated by liberal traitors all through the leftist blogoshpere! A 100% LIE!!!

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:00:02pm

re: #164 Dreggas

Atheists using magick? That is just sooo wrong.
/

168 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:00:39pm

CAIR Asks Alaska Lawmaker to Drop Hate Group Leader as Witness

CAIR says that witness, Pamela Geller, heads Stop the Islamization of America (SIOA), which was designated by the Southern Poverty Law Center as one of the nation’s more than 1,000 hate groups. Gatto’s office has confirmed that Geller is scheduled to testify in support of the bill on March 30.


Looks like Pam is joining the fight against sharia in Alaska.
/I can see Mecca from my house.

169 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:01:36pm

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

Atheists using magick? That is just sooo wrong.
/

in this case magic comes from the planes, places that do exist. The guardians believe gods will save them, the defiants believe through magic and technology they'll be saved.

You'd have to read the background, that's my general understanding

170 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:01:52pm

re: #158 Dreggas

Like the commercial for Rift says, You're not in Azeroth anymore. It really is a superb MMO. I have a Ranger/Marksman/Nightblade I am running currently and he is pretty bad ass. He's Defiant/Kelari.

It's really cool to look across a field and suddenly see a rift open up from the plane of death/water etc. and then be able to go right in with people.

heh - Ranger/Bard/Marksman, of course Defiant.

I agree, impressive roll-out with a very solid software platform.
I see that they and Ubisoft have teamed up in regards to the European servers - er, Shards (heh).
I see much success in the future of both Trion and Ubisoft. And Trion has two more ventures to go live this year.
[Link: www.trionworlds.com...]

yeah, I'm a geek....

171 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:02:10pm

re: #160 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

"OK, dont fuck this up...don't fuck this up...FUCK, I FUCKED UP!"

HAHAHA, no kidding!

172 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:02:47pm

I'm on my 2nd playthrough of Dragon Age 2 (PC version).

Without getting too spoilery:

* Can't choose your character's race or background.
* Combat is ridiculously easy, even on hardest settings.
* Interiors get re-used like nobody's business. An ancient cave in Elven territory where a terrible monster lives looks exactly the same as an underground bandit's hideout, right down to the placement of crates, etc.
* NPC character dialog is good. Entertaining banter between certain combinations of characters while running around.
* Flemeth's outfit looks extremely spiffy. Too bad she's only in the game for like 5 minutes.
* Some quests are bugged and can't be completed.
* Virtually no puzzles in the game at all
* Companion characters have very shallow histories. Nowhere near DAO's.
* Primary story arc seems decidedly non-epic.

It's worth checking out, I guess, but overall it pales in comparison to DAO and Mass Effect. IMO.

173 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:03:13pm

re: #156 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

And you came out of cover for that?

Some people are very passionate about percentages.

174 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:05:04pm

re: #163 jamesfirecat

Hey if he's factually correct in his statements then I don't see why we should be beating the guy up...

Granted I'm a catnip smoking kum-bi-ah singing can't we all just get along liberal, but I still feel we might be going overboard...

I'll allow that you could be right. Heck, you are making a good example of letting another voice be heard......

... I just took it as a back-hand to our host concerning the thread headline.

175 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:05:39pm

re: #170 Ericus58

heh - Ranger/Bard/Marksman, of course Defiant.

I agree, impressive roll-out with a very solid software platform.
I see that they and Ubisoft have teamed up in regards to the European servers - er, Shards (heh).
I see much success in the future of both Trion and Ubisoft. And Trion has two more ventures to go live this year.
[Link: www.trionworlds.com...]

yeah, I'm a geek...

They already have a big event coming up for Rift that will be like a mini expansion. The one thing I do wish they'd do is, when entering a rift, everyone is put into a public group so there's no XP stealing or loot stealing. Fortunately most of the good loot is given after the rift is sealed and everyone gets some.

176 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:05:46pm

re: #174 Ericus58

I'll allow that you could be right. Heck, you are making a good example of letting another voice be heard...

... I just took it as a back-hand to our host concerning the thread headline.

I just don't trust those bastards from 2004.

What?

177 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:06:41pm

Plus, one comment from an account almost 7 years old? Come on now.

178 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:07:53pm

re: #177 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Plus, one comment from an account almost 7 years old? Come on now.

It was a loooong nap.....

179 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:09:11pm

re: #178 Ericus58

It was a looong nap...

You just know some one out there is giggling like a bitch as he gleefully composes an epic rendition about how he got one over on LGF.

180 Summer Seale  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:09:44pm

I honestly still cannot fathom how people can still support the war in Afghanistan and especially Iraq and not support the action in Libya.

At least I'm fucking consistent. I supported Iraq for the same reasons I support this action in Libya. I haven't changed my position and I'm not going to just based on whichever side is currently in the White House. And, for what it's worth, this makes Palin and the others into tremendously huge hypocrites and unforgivable liars.

181 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:10:04pm

re: #34 ralphieboy

The Lie is out there and it will become part of the Bigger Truth

The truth may be out there but the lies are in your head. - Terry Pratchett.

182 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:10:59pm

It's true that it should be "Palin says the cost is 600% more" or "Palin says the cost is 700% of what it actually is".

The English language doesn't deal well with a lot of math, and percentages are one of them. You can't give 110% of your total capacity, but you can give 110% percent of what you normally give. Etc.

Anyhoo, it's rather irrelevant to the laborious and obvious efforts by Palin and others to paint this action by Obama as costly, to the extent of misrepresenting the actual cost by significant amounts.

183 Fozzie Bear  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:11:59pm

re: #151 Ericus58

Rift is stealing from WoW.
The combination of Cata being too demanding in Instances and Raids as compared to RoTL for Wow, and Rift being a superb, polished product - a sweet spot for a new MMO to go live.

The end result is harsh on some of the Realms - guilds are folding.

Wow has gotten progressively less interesting for years on end. It's a dying game, because they aren't doing anything new or interesting. It's become cookie-cutter gaming hell.

Rift seems like the antidote to everything that is wrong with WoW. If I hadn't sworn off MMO's, I'd be playing it. I don't have time for them anymore.

184 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:12:26pm

re: #180 Summer

Aw, but it's hard to be intellectually consistent. ;)

185 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:13:02pm

re: #173 SanFranciscoZionist

Some people are very passionate about percentages.

What percentage of people are passionate about percentages?

186 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:13:40pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

Wow has gotten progressively less interesting for years on end. It's a dying game, because they aren't doing anything new or interesting. It's become cookie-cutter gaming hell.

Rift seems like the antidote to everything that is wrong with WoW. If I hadn't sworn off MMO's, I'd be playing it. I don't have time for them anymore.

They've been dumbing it down for years. I stopped playing about half way thru the LK expansion because they had neutered everything worthwhile.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:13:43pm

re: #163 jamesfirecat

Hey if he's factually correct in his statements then I don't see why we should be beating the guy up...

Granted I'm a catnip smoking kum-bi-ah singing can't we all just get along liberal, but I still feel we might be going overboard...

Must agree...some people are just sensitive about certain issues. I, for one, get very annoyed when people think that the Immaculate Conception is the conception of Jesus, and that it's immaculate because no sex was involved.

And it is important to get the math right, if we're going to make fun of Sarah Palin for getting the math wrong--although in her case it wasn't exactly a calculation error.

188 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:14:19pm

re: #132 EastSider

re: #121 Lidane

Thanks. I suppose I understand then how this could be used as a political slur on Obama. Not that I agree with the logic (we have had a smaller GDP growth % than China/India for a while, and that kind of math shouldn't be hard to follow).

Its interesting that our changing (diminishing) role internationally requires almost more management and attention domestically than it does abroad.

It is a bit sad to realize that when I'm a senior citizen we won't be the/a superpower, but the sooner we realize we can't have everything and impose our will everywhere all the time, the quicker we start enacting rational policies.

I think that is one reason the early 50s seems to a sort of conservative dream state. No real economic competition since Japan, Germany, and Europe in general were recovering from WWII and/or the coming down of the Iron Curtain. Republican in the White House (Eisenhower), and a sort of lull in minority politics (though things were brewing, it's just that the lid appeared to be on the pot.)

And the US was the sole recognized leader in the Free World while we were starting our run as the dominant cultural entity as well.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:14:59pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

CAIR Asks Alaska Lawmaker to Drop Hate Group Leader as Witness


Looks like Pam is joining the fight against sharia in Alaska.
/I can see Mecca from my house.

Honest question. How many Muslims are there in Alaska?

190 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:15:30pm

re: #172 negativ

I just wrote a review. It seems we agree on a lot.

191 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:16:07pm

re: #188 oaktree

I think that is one reason the early 50s seems to a sort of conservative dream state. No real economic competition since Japan, Germany, and Europe in general were recovering from WWII and/or the coming down of the Iron Curtain. Republican in the White House (Eisenhower), and a sort of lull in minority politics (though things were brewing, it's just that the lid appeared to be on the pot.)

And the US was the sole recognized leader in the Free World while we were starting our run as the dominant cultural entity as well.

Yup. The 50s were indeed swell for heterosexual white male landowners.

192 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:16:35pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

Wow has gotten progressively less interesting for years on end. It's a dying game, because they aren't doing anything new or interesting. It's become cookie-cutter gaming hell.

Rift seems like the antidote to everything that is wrong with WoW. If I hadn't sworn off MMO's, I'd be playing it. I don't have time for them anymore.

well, I know personally of three raiding guilds on three different servers that have folded.

"For The ............ Defiant!!"

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:16:50pm

re: #185 prononymous

What percentage of people are passionate about percentages?

How the hell should I know? I didn't even catch the original error.

194 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:18:17pm

re: #180 Summer

I honestly still cannot fathom how people can still support the war in Afghanistan and especially Iraq and not support the action in Libya.

At least I'm fucking consistent. I supported Iraq for the same reasons I support this action in Libya. I haven't changed my position and I'm not going to just based on whichever side is currently in the White House. And, for what it's worth, this makes Palin and the others into tremendously huge hypocrites and unforgivable liars.

Well, I think you can fathom it if you think REALLY hard :)

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:18:28pm

re: #191 EastSider

Yup. The 50s were indeed swell for heterosexual white male landowners.

Has there ever really been a bad time and place to be a heterosexual white male landowner, aside from parts of Africa when things went pear-shaped?

196 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:18:33pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

Honest question. How many Muslims are there in Alaska?

0
Although I'd guess that's a little low. There has to be a Muslim there on vacation or something but not enough to show up statistically.

197 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:19:53pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

Has there ever really been a bad time and place to be a heterosexual white male landowner, aside from parts of Africa when things went pear-shaped?

There's a great Louis CK bit on this. NSFW:

198 aagcobb  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:20:44pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Its never too soon to combat the looming threat of sharia law!
/

199 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:21:16pm

A friend just posted this on FB. Now I'm going to have it stuck in my head all day. Dammit.

200 Obdicut  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:21:32pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Less that .5%, according to Wiki.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

201 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:21:33pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

Wow has gotten progressively less interesting for years on end. It's a dying game, because they aren't doing anything new or interesting. It's become cookie-cutter gaming hell.

Rift seems like the antidote to everything that is wrong with WoW. If I hadn't sworn off MMO's, I'd be playing it. I don't have time for them anymore.

The great thing I have found about Rift is that it doesn't require constant playing. It's been great as a casual gamer because you can always find people to do instances with and most of the elite stuff is done through public group quests. There's no need to stand around to find a group when a rift opens, most are already on their way to one and hitting it. Further you can easily set rally points on a map to figure out where everyone is going to go.

Last night there was a major Death rift outbreak in one area, we went around and closed a bunch fo rifts and then headed to the boss, nearly every player in the area we were in was there and it took all of us to take out the boss. Got some nice loot.

202 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:21:35pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

0
Although I'd guess that's a little low. There has to be a Muslim there on vacation or something but not enough to show up statistically.


Alaskan Muslims avoid conflict

Omar estimates the Muslim population in Alaska at approximately 1000.


That sounds about right.

203 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:21:44pm

re: #192 Ericus58

well, I know personally of three raiding guilds on three different servers that have folded.

"For The ... Defiant!!"

This Defiant?

/

204 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:23:03pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

Wow has gotten progressively less interesting for years on end. It's a dying game, because they aren't doing anything new or interesting. It's become cookie-cutter gaming hell.

Rift seems like the antidote to everything that is wrong with WoW. If I hadn't sworn off MMO's, I'd be playing it. I don't have time for them anymore.

That's not true, actually. Have you been on lately? The Cataclysm expansion has basically redone all the zones including newbie zones. There's a ton of new content as well as a lot of bug fixes. The game is more geared to solo playing. In fact, you can level out completely as a solo player if you choose.

EQ, now that has stagnated. Sony basically gave up which is a shame because the graphics are still awesome.

A lot of our friends are on Rift, but hubby and I have been playing WoW again. With all the good talk here, I think I may convince him to switch over.

205 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:23:49pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

0
Although I'd guess that's a little low. There has to be a Muslim there on vacation or something but not enough to show up statistically.

"As soon as Farideh's cruise ship clears Alaskan territorial waters, we'll be back to zero. Meanwhile, she is trying to impose sharia law on brown bears, while she observes them through binoculars, and takes pictures for her office friends back in New Jersey."

206 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:24:15pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

Wow has gotten progressively less interesting for years on end. It's a dying game, because they aren't doing anything new or interesting. It's become cookie-cutter gaming hell.

Rift seems like the antidote to everything that is wrong with WoW. If I hadn't sworn off MMO's, I'd be playing it. I don't have time for them anymore.

WoW needs to turn something loose with no life that just goes around like an unstoppable killing machine that annoys the heck out of everyone.

207 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:27:53pm

re: #204 marjoriemoon

That's not true, actually. Have you been on lately? The Cataclysm expansion has basically redone all the zones including newbie zones. There's a ton of new content as well as a lot of bug fixes. The game is more geared to solo playing. In fact, you can level out completely as a solo player if you choose.

EQ, now that has stagnated. Sony basically gave up which is a shame because the graphics are still awesome.

A lot of our friends are on Rift, but hubby and I have been playing WoW again. With all the good talk here, I think I may convince him to switch over.

I am waiting for Old Republic. That is what I want. I already have a proto-guild in the making as well if any are interested...

208 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:28:11pm

re: #204 marjoriemoon

You won't regret the switch, I sure as heck didn't. They even have these things called relics that appear in random spots around the world, you collect them in sets and turn them in for tokens to use for some nifty goodies which makes exploration worth while. The graphics are really good and the story is relatively original with somewhat lovecraftian undertones (ie the refts in general).

Like I said, I log in and work on the usual quests and such but suddenly get sucked into a large public raid to prevent the armies from the plane of death from taking over an area (trust me, if they linger too long life becomes pretty hard since they wander around the roads in war parties).

209 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:28:40pm

re: #206 oaktree

WoW needs to turn something loose with no life that just goes around like an unstoppable killing machine that annoys the heck out of everyone.

you mean like....WoW?
//

210 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:29:14pm

re: #206 oaktree

WoW needs to turn something loose with no life that just goes around like an unstoppable killing machine that annoys the heck out of everyone.

Well, in TBC expansion the Reavers did a good job of layin' the smackdown on us at first... ;)

211 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:29:40pm

re: #207 LudwigVanQuixote

I am waiting for Old Republic. That is what I want. I already have a proto-guild in the making as well if any are interested...

I may be interested! You have my email account I believe.

212 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:29:57pm

re: #118 Lidane

I wouldn't mind trying Rift, but grad school is kicking my ass. I'm saving up my MMO time for Star Wars: The Old Republic.

Oh yeah! When is that out?

213 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:31:38pm

re: #211 marjoriemoon

I may be interested! You have my email account I believe.

I do! I shall mail you when the time comes! Everything I have heard or seen about Old Republic means it will kick ass.

So far I have Miss S, and a bunch of friends from college and grad school lined up. 7 in all. We are going to want the sort of guild where it is OK and understood one has a life in the real world.

214 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:31:55pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

How the hell should I know? I didn't even catch the original error.

People with passion for percentages.
Chances are good some will be odder then the odds.
Though others poke the probability to great advantages.
And certainly not all will be clods behind facades.

215 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:33:40pm

re: #208 Dreggas

You won't regret the switch, I sure as heck didn't. They even have these things called relics that appear in random spots around the world, you collect them in sets and turn them in for tokens to use for some nifty goodies which makes exploration worth while. The graphics are really good and the story is relatively original with somewhat lovecraftian undertones (ie the refts in general).

Like I said, I log in and work on the usual quests and such but suddenly get sucked into a large public raid to prevent the armies from the plane of death from taking over an area (trust me, if they linger too long life becomes pretty hard since they wander around the roads in war parties).

Sounds very cool. We met a group of folks (mostly British actually) on EQ in like 2004 or so, whenever it first came out and we've been gaming with them since. It's awesome because it's enough for a small guild and they're really nice folks to boot! Which is sometimes tough to find.

216 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:34:15pm

Hey Sci-fi folks.....

"Trion Worlds, Inc., is a premiere publisher and developer of connected video games. Our creative and executive teams, comprised of some of the most respected names in the industry, have worked on blockbuster games and franchises from Aion and World of Warcraft to EverQuest and Pogo. Trion is redefining what a massively multiplayer online (MMO) game can be.

And, in a first-of-its-kind partnership, Syfy and Trion are collaborating on a new science-fiction franchise to be launched simultaneously as a global television program on Syfy and a massively multiplayer online action role-playing game (Syfy Action MMO) from Trion."

217 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:35:52pm

re: #216 Ericus58

Hey Sci-fi folks...

"Trion Worlds, Inc., is a premiere publisher and developer of connected video games. Our creative and executive teams, comprised of some of the most respected names in the industry, have worked on blockbuster games and franchises from Aion and World of Warcraft to EverQuest and Pogo. Trion is redefining what a massively multiplayer online (MMO) game can be.

And, in a first-of-its-kind partnership, Syfy and Trion are collaborating on a new science-fiction franchise to be launched simultaneously as a global television program on Syfy and a massively multiplayer online action role-playing game (Syfy Action MMO) from Trion."

Did you say Trion is connected to Ubisoft?

218 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:37:19pm

Former Romney Adviser Jonathan Gruber: Without RomneyCare, We Wouldn’t Have ObamaCare

I'm sure that will go over well with the GOP base. Heh.

219 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:37:31pm

re: #217 marjoriemoon

Did you say Trion is connected to Ubisoft?

Aye.
TRION WORLDS SIGNS DISTRIBUTION DEAL WITH UBISOFT®
[Link: www.trionworlds.com...]

220 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:37:41pm

re: #216 Ericus58

OOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooo shiny!

221 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:38:21pm

re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh yeah! When is that out?

I don't know if they've announced a date yet. Sometime by the end of the year, I think.

222 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:38:51pm

re: #221 Lidane

I don't know if they've announced a date yet. Sometime by the end of the year, I think.

ya wanna be a guildie?

223 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:38:54pm

re: #218 Lidane

Former Romney Adviser Jonathan Gruber: Without RomneyCare, We Wouldn’t Have ObamaCare

I'm sure that will go over well with the GOP base. Heh.

anyone who has a shot at winning the GOP primary really has no shot at winning a national election.

224 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:40:04pm

re: #190 LudwigVanQuixote

I just wrote a review. It seems we agree on a lot.

I agree with most of what you wrote. I think most of my complaints arose from having sky-high expectations.

225 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:41:13pm

re: #222 LudwigVanQuixote

ya wanna be a guildie?

Could be fun. Dunno how many folks from my City of Heroes guild will be playing, and I know a couple of guys from my grad school class want to play, so I'm already being pulled in multiple directions for guilds. Heh. Although a Lizard guild would be groovy.

226 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:41:29pm

re: #199 Lidane

A friend just posted this on FB. Now I'm going to have it stuck in my head all day. Dammit.

[Video]

I keep thinking of that when I hear the name of the capital of Bahrain.

227 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:41:50pm

re: #218 Lidane

Former Romney Adviser Jonathan Gruber: Without RomneyCare, We Wouldn’t Have ObamaCare

I'm sure that will go over well with the GOP base. Heh.

Last I heard, Romney's been trying to argue that Obamacare is "bad" because it's the federal government doing things, but "Romneycare" was good because its the state doing things. You know, the whole "50 laboratories" bit that Republicans have taken up as an excuse for why some states should be allowed to throw their least fortunate to the wolves.

228 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:43:08pm

re: #224 negativ

I agree with most of what you wrote. I think most of my complaints arose from having sky-high expectations.

Yeah. IF DAO did not exist, I really think DA2 would be the best RPG out there. This may be heresy, but I was not a fan of Oblivion as much as many others.

229 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:43:35pm

Oh yeah, Rift also has coin-locking in place to keep your account from being stolen. I switched ISP's recently and had to unlock myself. Like that feature, a lot.

230 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:45:11pm

And speaking of guilds... anyone who is not familiar with Felicia Day's the guild is missing out.

[Link: www.watchtheguild.com...]

You can watch all four seasons online for free and it is brilliant. It is sort of like Big Bang Theory for Wow people.

231 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:45:24pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah. IF DAO did not exist, I really think DA2 would be the best RPG out there. This may be heresy, but I was not a fan of Oblivion as much as many others.

If we're gonna talk about best RPG ever I have to put forward Mother 3 (assuming anyone here knows what I mean) for the way it took so many great things about Earthbound and polished that diamond with a more interactive combat system...

232 Slap  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:46:03pm

re: #199 Lidane

A friend just posted this on FB. Now I'm going to have it stuck in my head all day. Dammit.

[Video]

I don't even have to see the vid to call forth the tune -- the title is more than enough. You rat.

A completely off-topic (but on-Muppets) question for the older Lizards (and by that, I merely mean "old enough to be allowed to watch evening TV during the '60s"): every place I have seen this tune/clip listed, this particular version is described as the "original". Yet, I have a very clear late-60s memory (I was too young for the psychoactive side of the 60s) of seeing this song done on a variety show, with puppets that looked like slinkys wrapped in paper with eyes, dancing to this tune. I was on Okinawa at the time, and we got quite a lot of old re-runs on AFRTS (now AFN); I keep thinking it was an old Ernie Kovacs program, but since Rolf the Muppet was a regular on the Jimmy Dean show, it could have been there, as well.

Obviously, this is not one of those deep philosophical or survival-type knowledge needs....but I'd sure be curious if anyone else remembers this.

Thanks, must now go take my walker to the shop....

233 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:46:10pm

re: #231 jamesfirecat

If we're gonna talk about best RPG ever I have to put forward Mother 3 (assuming anyone here knows what I mean) for the way it took so many great things about Earthbound and polished that diamond with a more interactive combat system...

I don't know it. Enlighten me.

234 EastSider  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:46:20pm

re: #229 Dreggas

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #225 Lidane

re: #219 Ericus58

Yeah hi. I have no idea what you're talking about. But it looks like you're enjoying it, so carry on!

235 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:46:43pm

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

I dunno, Baldur's Gate is still up there on my list.

236 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:46:57pm

re: #229 Dreggas

Oh yeah, Rift also has coin-locking in place to keep your account from being stolen. I switched ISP's recently and had to unlock myself. Like that feature, a lot.

A great feature.
After suffering through a wipe-out on WoW......

They really have this game tight.

237 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:47:10pm

re: #234 EastSider


Yeah hi. I have no idea what you're talking about. But it looks like you're enjoying it, so carry on!

Video Game goodness :)

238 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:47:31pm

re: #234 EastSider

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #225 Lidane

re: #219 Ericus58

Yeah hi. I have no idea what you're talking about. But it looks like you're enjoying it, so carry on!

Various role playing games. Dragon Age Two is the one that started it.

239 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:48:04pm

re: #230 LudwigVanQuixote

And speaking of guilds... anyone who is not familiar with Felicia Day's the guild is missing out.

[Link: www.watchtheguild.com...]

You can watch all four seasons online for free and it is brilliant. It is sort of like Big Bang Theory for Wow people.

240 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:48:55pm

re: #235 Dreggas

I dunno, Baldur's Gate is still up there on my list.

OK OK good point... But you really have to go back for that. I meant of the recent generation.

And as always, Bioware rules!

241 jamesfirecat  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:48:57pm

re: #233 LudwigVanQuixote

I don't know it. Enlighten me.

Mother 3 is the sequel to Earthbound (as "Earthbound Zero" was originally titled Mother in Japan with Earthbound being Mother 2, and thus the sequel is Mother 3) and manages to portray a deep and riveting story with only GPA level graphics. You will laugh, you will cry. I say this as a statement of fact...

242 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:49:26pm

re: #239 Ericus58

[Video]

And you get to be in the guild too if you want for Old Republic!

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:49:46pm

re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Last I heard, Romney's been trying to argue that Obamacare is "bad" because it's the federal government doing things, but "Romneycare" was good because its the state doing things. You know, the whole "50 laboratories" bit that Republicans have taken up as an excuse for why some states should be allowed to throw their least fortunate to the wolves.

Was there Republican support for Romneycare?

244 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:50:13pm

re: #232 Slap

I don't even have to see the vid to call forth the tune -- the title is more than enough. You rat.

A completely off-topic (but on-Muppets) question for the older Lizards (and by that, I merely mean "old enough to be allowed to watch evening TV during the '60s"): every place I have seen this tune/clip listed, this particular version is described as the "original". Yet, I have a very clear late-60s memory (I was too young for the psychoactive side of the 60s) of seeing this song done on a variety show, with puppets that looked like slinkys wrapped in paper with eyes, dancing to this tune. I was on Okinawa at the time, and we got quite a lot of old re-runs on AFRTS (now AFN); I keep thinking it was an old Ernie Kovacs program, but since Rolf the Muppet was a regular on the Jimmy Dean show, it could have been there, as well.

Obviously, this is not one of those deep philosophical or survival-type knowledge needs...but I'd sure be curious if anyone else remembers this.

Thanks, must now go take my walker to the shop...

My earliest memory was of it on the Red Skelton show. So, you going to enter the walker races this year?

245 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:50:22pm

re: #236 Ericus58

A great feature.
After suffering through a wipe-out on WoW...

They really have this game tight.

They said it themselves, they wanted to take the best features of any current MMO and build on them. One of my favorite parts of the much-maligned Warhammer MMO was the public questing and world events. It actually felt like we were doing something that had some measure of impact (even if it was repeatable).

In rift, if you don't repel the invasions from the rifts it's 90 minutes of constantly spawning NPC raiding parties that don't disappear when the rifts do and can make life real unpleasant.

It took people a few days to get that part before you saw people announcing in chat where a rift was and lots of players coming to help close it.

246 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:50:50pm

re: #239 Ericus58

And I have something of a crush on Felicia Day as well...

247 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:50:50pm

re: #213 LudwigVanQuixote

I do! I shall mail you when the time comes! Everything I have heard or seen about Old Republic means it will kick ass.

So far I have Miss S, and a bunch of friends from college and grad school lined up. 7 in all. We are going to want the sort of guild where it is OK and understood one has a life in the real world.

I have some reservations about TOR, despite the fact that it is, in fact, freaking Star Wars, and there is something about the sound of a lightsabre powering up that stirs the animal soul that pulses in the breast of man.

...

I'm better now. Anyway, my main concern is that the epic nature of the Jedi and Sith (and I use the word epic in its original meaning, as opposed to the modern meaning of 'rather nice') may not translate well to a MMO. It obviously translated well to KOTOR, the best RPG game of all time. But that is a single player, and the dynamic of MMOs is very different. A MMO generally has players being relatively anonymous parts of the world - some try to give an individual more meaning and impact on the world, but by its very nature any real impact a player has must be limited in scope.

Immersion is also always an issue - in cartoony worlds like WoW or worlds where there is no long tradition of IP, immersion is perhaps not so important. But the IP of Star Wars is far and away the main attraction here. Furthermore, the anonymity and relative unimportance of any individual player protects immersion - when you see random idiots being idiots, you can always ignore them comfortably in part because they are relatively unimportant. But I'm not sure it will be so easy to ignore Lol'I Pwnd'U the Jedi Master dueling Omgwtfr0xx0rz the Sith Lord.

Some reviews of TOR have made the comment that it seems to be much more of a MSPRPG (Massive Single Player RPG), where interaction with other players is a vaguely optional sort of extra. That may well be preferable to diluting the awesomeness by interacting with the 99 out of 100 basement-dwelling mouthbreathing hambeasts that give the 1 out of 100 other players a bad name. But I'm not sure it will necessarily make for an especially awesome MMO recipe.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:51:17pm

re: #234 EastSider

re: #228 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #225 Lidane

re: #219 Ericus58

Yeah hi. I have no idea what you're talking about. But it looks like you're enjoying it, so carry on!

My husband and two of my closest girlfriends are into this stuff. I just stop listening as soon as someone says "WoW", "guild" or "level".

249 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:51:26pm

re: #240 LudwigVanQuixote

Very true.

250 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:51:30pm

There are a lot of geeks on this board.

/I'm a little slow on the uptake

251 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:51:54pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

Was there Republican support for Romneycare?

IIRC, it enjoys something like 83% support in MA itself, so obviously Republicans within the state support it. And a lot of what's in it and what is likewise in the ACA came from Republican "ideas" (by way of Heritage) that were in their counterproposal to "Hillarycare."

Really, in the end, it's like anything else: Obama supports it, so they automatically oppose it.

252 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:53:03pm

I've vowed no more MMOs until either Dark Millenium or FOOL are released.

253 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:54:07pm

One game that was pretty cool, but never quite caught on was Tabula Rasa.

254 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:54:16pm

re: #252 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I've vowed no more MMOs until either Dark Millenium or FOOL are released.

Fallout Online?

255 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:54:21pm

Palin is a Parrot.

"Sarah want a Cracker?"

How is everyone this afternoon?

256 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:54:34pm

re: #254 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Fallout Online?

Yes.

257 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:54:49pm

re: #247 Renaissance_Man

that's another thing I have liked about Rift, it hasn't drawn the morons that exist in other MMO's, yet. But then again I may just be on a good server because it's a PvP/RP server and they actually are adding a lot more servers. When they launched they launched with too few servers and the result was long wait queues. So far that's the only "bad" thing I have seen or heard about their launch.

258 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:55:33pm

re: #255 ggt

Palin is a Parrot.

"Sarah want a Cracker?"

How is everyone this afternoon?

Aggravated at Buck, to be honest.

259 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:55:59pm

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

Aggravated at Buck, to be honest.

I'm sorry.

260 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:56:09pm

re: #256 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Yes.

Grab a Snickers, it's gonna be awhile. Bethesda and Interplay are still in the midst of their pissing contest over who has the rights to it, though if Bethesda keeps making serious frakups, they may lose rights to Fallout entirely.

261 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:56:22pm

Personally I have been enjoying some independent games. They are cheap (usually around $10), support quality work, and more directly support the developers.

Amnesia is a good game that feels sort of like a first person adventure or RPG. It's not supposed to be played like a game but rather to let go and immerse in the extremely creepy atmosphere.

Fate of the World is an interesting game about what you would do if you were put in charge of combating global warming. It is a bit buggy yet, so some patches will be needed. And it is really hard. But it really drives home what a complex issue AGW is and how hard it will be to do something significant before real trouble starts. I really got sucked into this one.

Osmos is a lush, organic game about being a mote of mass that ejects mass to travel around a map and absorb other motes. Beautiful graphics and music, with simple controls yet extremely interesting physics based gameplay.

262 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:56:37pm

re: #247 Renaissance_Man

I have some reservations about TOR, despite the fact that it is, in fact, freaking Star Wars, and there is something about the sound of a lightsabre powering up that stirs the animal soul that pulses in the breast of man.

...

I'm better now. Anyway, my main concern is that the epic nature of the Jedi and Sith (and I use the word epic in its original meaning, as opposed to the modern meaning of 'rather nice') may not translate well to a MMO. It obviously translated well to KOTOR, the best RPG game of all time. But that is a single player, and the dynamic of MMOs is very different. A MMO generally has players being relatively anonymous parts of the world - some try to give an individual more meaning and impact on the world, but by its very nature any real impact a player has must be limited in scope.

Immersion is also always an issue - in cartoony worlds like WoW or worlds where there is no long tradition of IP, immersion is perhaps not so important. But the IP of Star Wars is far and away the main attraction here. Furthermore, the anonymity and relative unimportance of any individual player protects immersion - when you see random idiots being idiots, you can always ignore them comfortably in part because they are relatively unimportant. But I'm not sure it will be so easy to ignore Lol'I Pwnd'U the Jedi Master dueling Omgwtfr0xx0rz the Sith Lord.

Some reviews of TOR have made the comment that it seems to be much more of a MSPRPG (Massive Single Player RPG), where interaction with other players is a vaguely optional sort of extra. That may well be preferable to diluting the awesomeness by interacting with the 99 out of 100 basement-dwelling mouthbreathing hambeasts that give the 1 out of 100 other players a bad name. But I'm not sure it will necessarily make for an especially awesome MMO recipe.

Dude... well said.

The reason that I think Old Republic will be awesome is that it is Bioware and they have consistently in the course of developer interviews been harping on the vary points you bring up. If anyone can pull off the incredibly ambitions goals that the devs are talking about, it is Bioware. Since they made Baldur's Gate, Kotor, Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I am willing to at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

All dialogue is fully voice acted for example. All characters make choices that will effect their personal stories permanently. The game is set up so that different choices can put different player characters at odds. Each character class has its own story arc.

As to epicness, a full galaxy at war with legions of Sith fighting the legions of Jedi is pretty dan epic IMHO and in the original sense of the word.

263 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:57:02pm

re: #252 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I've vowed no more MMOs until either Dark Millenium or FOOL are released.

If and when Dark Millenium comes out I will bid a fond farewell to Rift, provided it doesn't suck too much. I keep hearing about a Call of Cthulu MMO but that's been a rumor for a while.

Oh if anyone wants to treat themselves to a good movie version of Call Of Cthulu, get the silent film version made in 2005 (it's on netflix). It was really well done considering they did it as if they were making the movie when lovecraft wrote the story.

264 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:57:09pm

I playing Words with Friends.

Somehow, I think you-all are talking about a different game league.

265 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:57:30pm

re: #257 Dreggas

that's another thing I have liked about Rift, it hasn't drawn the morons that exist in other MMO's, yet. But then again I may just be on a good server because it's a PvP/RP server and they actually are adding a lot more servers. When they launched they launched with too few servers and the result was long wait queues. So far that's the only "bad" thing I have seen or heard about their launch.

Sorry I had to duck out a min.

New games are like that, I think. They draw the real geeks first. The ones that like to roll play, adults who know how to have a conversation and are polite and helpful.

266 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:57:51pm

Only three games I'm really in anticipation of:

Mass Effect 3
Bioshock Infinite
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2

267 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:58:00pm

re: #258 SanFranciscoZionist

Aggravated at Buck, to be honest.

I am afraid to ask.

268 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:58:34pm

re: #263 Dreggas

If and when Dark Millenium comes out I will bid a fond farewell to Rift, provided it doesn't suck too much. I keep hearing about a Call of Cthulu MMO but that's been a rumor for a while.

Oh if anyone wants to treat themselves to a good movie version of Call Of Cthulu, get the silent film version made in 2005 (it's on netflix). It was really well done considering they did it as if they were making the movie when lovecraft wrote the story.

And Del Toro still can't get a studio to sign off for "In the Mountains of Madness" because there is no female love interest and no happy ending.

269 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:58:51pm

re: #266 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Only three games I'm really in anticipation of:

Mass Effect 3
Bioshock Infinite
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2

Well Mass Effect 3 is a given for me! That and Old Republic ought to have me wrapped up fopr my gaming needs for some time.

270 Slap  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:59:28pm

re: #244 kirkspencer

My earliest memory was of it on the Red Skelton show. So, you going to enter the walker races this year?

Only if my cheater slicks arrive before the event....!

Red Skelton is a distinct possibility -- our house never missed a Red Skelton show, so that would fit. Do you recall the slinky puppets? Or do I have unresolved issues?

271 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:59:38pm

re: #268 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

And Del Toro still can't get a studio to sign off for "In the Mountains of Madness" because there is no female love interest and no happy ending.

BAH! That story really should be a movie. That one was one of my favorites.

272 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 1:59:57pm

re: #260 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Grab a Snickers, it's gonna be awhile. Bethesda and Interplay are still in the midst of their pissing contest over who has the rights to it, though if Bethesda keeps making serious frakups, they may lose rights to Fallout entirely.

June 2010, they had supposedly hashed out the legal wranglings and were proceeding with development.

273 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:00:02pm

re: #263 Dreggas

If and when Dark Millenium comes out I will bid a fond farewell to Rift, provided it doesn't suck too much. I keep hearing about a Call of Cthulu MMO but that's been a rumor for a while.

Oh if anyone wants to treat themselves to a good movie version of Call Of Cthulu, get the silent film version made in 2005 (it's on netflix). It was really well done considering they did it as if they were making the movie when lovecraft wrote the story.

That was good! And BTW, Sarah snogs Shoggoths!

274 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:01:32pm

re: #230 LudwigVanQuixote

hey - speaking of Big Bang Theory...
that episode with Penny getting hooked into the MMO and turning into a raving Raid Leader was just hilarious......

wait, that's what happened to my wife!!!

Kidding ;)
But when we do have the time to be online together, it's a nice way to spend time. Being a social person like she is, the interaction with our friends and family online is a big plus.

275 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:02:33pm

re: #274 Ericus58

hey - speaking of Big Bang Theory...
that episode with Penny getting hooked into the MMO and turning into a raving Raid Leader was just hilarious...

wait, that's what happened to my wife!!!

Kidding ;)
But when we do have the time to be online together, it's a nice way to spend time. Being a social person like she is, the interaction with our friends and family online is a big plus.

Absolutely. It is perfectly possible to get like minded friends who use MMO's as a social outlet and a lot of fun, rather than a second obsessive compulsive job.

276 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:02:39pm

re: #219 Ericus58

Aye.
TRION WORLDS SIGNS DISTRIBUTION DEAL WITH UBISOFT®
[Link: www.trionworlds.com...]

I'm a big fan of Ubisoft. They bought 3DO and redid all the Heroes of Might and Magic series. They did an awesome job, but I think that might be over with, sadly for me. I can't play 3D games that don't have a third person perspective. I get vertigo.

So anyone remember some of the old Sierra titles? King Quest, Policy Quest, Larry Laffer. Any of you remember a nifty little game called Freddie Farkas the Frontier Pharmacist?

277 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:02:56pm

re: #271 Dreggas

BAH! That story really should be a movie. That one was one of my favorites.

They could easily make a lot of the stories into a running TV series. Give it to HBO or Showtime and let them follow the archeology department for Miskatonic University, home of the fighting cephalopods.

278 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:03:12pm

re: #272 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

June 2010, they had supposedly hashed out the legal wranglings and were proceeding with development.

Was really wishful thinking. The two have been in court for months, with Interplay arguing that Bethesda's been screwing them over since Day One, while Bethesda says Interplay was nowhere close to meeting the contractual requirements to keep the FOOL rights.

279 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:03:26pm

I'm so glad this woman is confined to spewing her garbage on FOX News. Prepackaged audience for prepackaged bullshit.

280 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:03:34pm

re: #267 LudwigVanQuixote

I am afraid to ask.

Just bickering at the end of the last thread about whether Obama supported the Afghanistan war or not. No biggie.

281 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:03:36pm

Somehow, I don't think she'd be questioning the costs if she were in charge. Whole thing reeks of second guessing.

282 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:03:43pm

re: #274 Ericus58

hey - speaking of Big Bang Theory...
that episode with Penny getting hooked into the MMO and turning into a raving Raid Leader was just hilarious...

wait, that's what happened to my wife!!!

Kidding ;)
But when we do have the time to be online together, it's a nice way to spend time. Being a social person like she is, the interaction with our friends and family online is a big plus.

Heh. I got my niece playing Kingdom of Loathing. See her on-line every so often and chat. Her father thought the game relatively harmless and thus lets her play. Though he thought it was a bit weird when I bought her an in-game item as a birthday present.

283 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:04:10pm

re: #277 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

They could easily make a lot of the stories into a running TV series. Give it to HBO or Showtime and let them follow the archeology department for Miskatonic University, home of the fighting cephalopods.

"Paging Dr. West, Dr. Herbert West. You're needed in Autopsy Room 4."

284 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:04:17pm

re: #274 Ericus58

Speaking of which, I got Miss S. turned on to gaming. For some time she was all about denying her inner nerd girl. Then I had her play Kotor. Problem solved.

After that she played through DAO. The only bump was when she got utterly pissed when Alister broke it off with her because she was an elf.

285 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:05:03pm

re: #283 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Paging Dr. West, Dr. Herbert West. You're needed in Autopsy Room 4."

"We go thru more librarians than Spinal Tap does drummers."

286 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:05:18pm

re: #279 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm so glad this woman is confined to spewing her garbage on FOX News. Prepackaged audience for prepackaged bullshit.

Girl, tell me you're a gamer.

287 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:05:54pm

re: #285 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

"We go thru more librarians than Spinal Tap does drummers."

They need to hire a orangutan. (ook!)

288 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:06:42pm

Hey, LVQ, good to catch you online. I've been curious to ask your opinion on Richard Elliott Friedman's Commentary on the Torah. I've picked it up from the public library and will probably buy a copy through the LGF-Amazon link but was wondering if you'd run into it.

289 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:07:16pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of which, I got Miss S. turned on to gaming. For some time she was all about denying her inner nerd girl. Then I had her play Kotor. Problem solved.

After that she played through DAO. The only bump was when she got utterly pissed when Alister broke it off with her because she was an elf.

haha, Classic!

290 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:08:05pm

re: #285 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

"We go thru more librarians than Spinal Tap does drummers."

"If I catch you copying passages out of the Necronomicon again, I'm revoking your library card."

291 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:08:28pm

re: #288 wlewisiii

Hey, LVQ, good to catch you online. I've been curious to ask your opinion on Richard Elliott Friedman's Commentary on the Torah. I've picked it up from the public library and will probably buy a copy through the LGF-Amazon link but was wondering if you'd run into it.

Are there classes for gentiles on the Torah? I'd love to learn more about, mostly, our shared history--more than the theology.

I should probably ask my friends what their Temple offers.

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:08:51pm

re: #281 HappyWarrior

Somehow, I don't think she'd be questioning the costs if she were in charge. Whole thing reeks of second guessing.

There's a lot to be said for and against this Libya thing. But coming from certain people, and Palin is three of them--she doesn't know jack shit about this. She's picking sides based on "We Hates Obama, My Precioussss Americans".

293 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:08:52pm

re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of which, I got Miss S. turned on to gaming. For some time she was all about denying her inner nerd girl. Then I had her play Kotor. Problem solved.

After that she played through DAO. The only bump was when she got utterly pissed when Alister broke it off with her because she was an elf.

There was a women gamer's site that was up a long time but came down at some point. I checked it recently and they poofed. I have no idea why. Hard to find gals who like to play.

294 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:09:21pm

re: #290 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"If I catch you copying passages out of the Necronomicon again, I'm revoking your library card."

Is that the book that isn't a book?

295 Renaissance_Man  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:09:52pm

re: #262 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude... well said.

The reason that I think Old Republic will be awesome is that it is Bioware and they have consistently in the course of developer interviews been harping on the vary points you bring up. If anyone can pull off the incredibly ambitions goals that the devs are talking about, it is Bioware. Since they made Baldur's Gate, Kotor, Mass Effect and Dragon Age, I am willing to at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

All dialogue is fully voice acted for example. All characters make choices that will effect their personal stories permanently. The game is set up so that different choices can put different player characters at odds. Each character class has its own story arc.

As to epicness, a full galaxy at war with legions of Sith fighting the legions of Jedi is pretty dan epic IMHO and in the original sense of the word.

Yes, indeed, if anyone can, Bioware can. But while the personal storyline, the fully voiced game, and so forth will in fact be impressive, I'm still not certain it will make for a great MMO recipe.

I've played a lot of MMOs for at least a short time - I don't like reaching 'endgames', because they're the least interesting parts of the game. I've found something to appreciate in most of them. WoW had numbers and accessibility, Vanguard had a nice world and a very impressive diplomacy aspect, Warhammer had the best PvP (and the best PvPers) I've seen, CoH had a tremendously robust system underpinning it, Star Wars Galaxies had the greatest crafting and economic system ever designed, and so on. A truly great MMO could combine so many of these things, and avoid the pitfalls of others. I'm not sure the market could support it, because I'm not sure the market in a post-WoW world appreciates what a truly impressive achievement such a game would be. But I remain hopeful.

I will of course try TOR and Dark Millennium. Of all the worlds in gaming, Star Wars and Warhammer (including 40K) are the best and most enduring IPs, gaming worlds that are the veritable gold standard against which all other IP will be measured and found wanting. It takes more than great IP to make a great MMO, though.

296 KingKenrod  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:10:05pm

re: #266 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Only three games I'm really in anticipation of:

Mass Effect 3
Bioshock Infinite
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2

I'm looking forward to the new Deus Ex, out later this year...

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:10:22pm

re: #291 ggt

Are there classes for gentiles on the Torah? I'd love to learn more about, mostly, our shared history--more than the theology.

I should probably ask my friends what their Temple offers.

Where are you again? If you have a local Lehrhaus Judaica, or JCC, there will probably be classes you would like. Also, as you say synagogues have adult classes.

298 Ericus58  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:11:20pm

Alrighty folks, got some stuff to attend to.
As always, time well spent for me with everyone.

Keep the Faith in each other.

299 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:11:32pm

re: #290 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"If I catch you copying passages out of the Necronomicon again, I'm revoking your library card."

You cast Steve Coogan as Henry Armitage, head of the department, round out the field with some undergrads you kill off every few episodes, ka-ching, you got paid.

300 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:12:00pm

re: #297 SanFranciscoZionist

Where are you again? If you have a local Lehrhaus Judaica, or JCC, there will probably be classes you would like. Also, as you say synagogues have adult classes.

Very Far West Parts of Chicagoland.

We had a JCC when I lived in Cincinnati, but I never had the time to check-it-out. Lots of Jews there, made good friends.

301 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:13:08pm

re: #291 ggt

Are there classes for gentiles on the Torah? I'd love to learn more about, mostly, our shared history--more than the theology.

I should probably ask my friends what their Temple offers.

Did you see CL's post about asking about good Jewish books? There was an amazing discussion there and I think you will find a lot of useful stuff.

302 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:13:18pm

re: #294 ggt

Is that the book that isn't a book?

No, the Necronomicon is just a book.

303 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:13:33pm

re: #295 Renaissance_Man

Rift has Warhammer quality PvP from what I've seen, some nifty new takes on capture the flag too. Basically, the one PvP match I entered, you had to capture the "Fang of Regulos" problem was, it did damage over time and would kill you so you couldn't just play keep away the whole match.

304 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:14:33pm

re: #291 ggt

Are there classes for gentiles on the Torah? I'd love to learn more about, mostly, our shared history--more than the theology.

I should probably ask my friends what their Temple offers.

Yes do, or any reform Temple. My mother teaches Hebrew and is very active in her Temple (Tucson). I believe their classes are open for anyone.

305 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:15:04pm

re: #294 ggt

Is that the book that isn't a book?

It's the one you have to say "Klatu verata Necktie...." err "Klatu Verata Nicto" before picking up ore the deadites will kick your ass.

306 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:15:24pm

re: #302 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

No, the Necronomicon is just a book.

What's the book that isn't a book, the one mentioned all the time, but that doesn't exist.

They reference it in SF alot and Librarians get asked for it.

Damn, my memory.

307 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:15:57pm

re: #301 LudwigVanQuixote

Did you see CL's post about asking about good Jewish books? There was an amazing discussion there and I think you will find a lot of useful stuff.

CL? Do I know a CL?

No, I didnt' see the post. Where is it? This thread?

308 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:16:12pm

re: #305 Dreggas

It's the one you have to say "Klatu verata Necktie..." err "Klatu Verata Nicto" before picking up ore the deadites will kick your ass.

Something beginning with "N," that's all I know.

/

309 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:16:52pm

re: #293 marjoriemoon

There was a women gamer's site that was up a long time but came down at some point. I checked it recently and they poofed. I have no idea why. Hard to find gals who like to play.

Because (at a guess) the instant far too many males know that's a Real Gurrl sharing their world, they quit treating her like another player.

My daughter prefers to use voice chat in most games, but has basically quit speaking unless she knows at least a couple of the other players. The HormoneBoyz either quit paying attention to her (despite her often topping kill boards) or they start letting the blood flow out of the brain and into other parts of their anatomy.

The women gamers sites I use to read all wound up ending because of (to put it simply) harassment: "Yeah, you talk a good game, but everyone knows real girls don't play."

/spit

310 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:16:59pm

re: #291 ggt

Are there classes for gentiles on the Torah? I'd love to learn more about, mostly, our shared history--more than the theology.

I should probably ask my friends what their Temple offers.

Please please please promise you'll stay away from the Kabbalah Center (or Centre) if you find one. "Rabbi" Berg's group. It's not real Kabbalah or Judaism.

311 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:17:28pm

re: #305 Dreggas

It's the one you have to say "Klatu verata Necktie..." err "Klatu Verata Nicto" before picking up ore the deadites will kick your ass.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

312 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:17:38pm

re: #306 ggt

What's the book that isn't a book, the one mentioned all the time, but that doesn't exist.

They reference it in SF alot and Librarians get asked for it.

Damn, my memory.

De Vermis Mysteriis?
The Eltdown Shards?
The G'harne Fragments?

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:18:21pm

re: #307 ggt

CL? Do I know a CL?

No, I didnt' see the post. Where is it? This thread?

Curious Lurker. In the Pages, I think.

315 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:18:50pm

re: #306 ggt

What's the book that isn't a book, the one mentioned all the time, but that doesn't exist.

They reference it in SF alot and Librarians get asked for it.

Damn, my memory.

Glen Beck's new book? Maybe Sarah Palin's?

//

316 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:19:01pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

Please please please promise you'll stay away from the Kabbalah Center (or Centre) if you find one. "Rabbi" Berg's group. It's not real Kabbalah or Judaism.

Anything I associate with Madonna is off limits in my world.

I have a solid foundation in REAL yoga, so that kind of stuff doesn't attract me. Same with the whole Tantric Yoga phenom. It is so off the mark, makes me want to spew.

317 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:19:20pm

re: #312 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

De Vermis Mysteriis?
The Eltdown Shards?
The G'harne Fragments?

no.

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:19:21pm

re: #309 kirkspencer

Because (at a guess) the instant far too many males know that's a Real Gurrl sharing their world, they quit treating her like another player.

My daughter prefers to use voice chat in most games, but has basically quit speaking unless she knows at least a couple of the other players. The HormoneBoyz either quit paying attention to her (despite her often topping kill boards) or they start letting the blood flow out of the brain and into other parts of their anatomy.

The women gamers sites I use to read all wound up ending because of (to put it simply) harassment: "Yeah, you talk a good game, but everyone knows real girls don't play."

/spit

Most of the women I know play with guilds that include a lot of people they know in real life. We have married couples, old friends...it's just different.

319 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:19:31pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Curious Lurker. In the Pages, I think.

thanks.

320 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:20:52pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

Curious Lurker. In the Pages, I think.

Pages search isn't working for me again.

321 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:21:08pm

re: #315 Dreggas

Glen Beck's new book? Maybe Sarah Palin's?

//

silly you!

:)

322 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:21:25pm

re: #309 kirkspencer

I know a lot of female gamers. In the RPG and MMO world there isn't the same crap you see in the FPS world. When I played Age Of Conan there were a lot of females in my guild. Haven't gotten into guilds in WoW or any others and haven't done so yet in Rift so I don't know if it's the same.

323 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:21:27pm

re: #318 SanFranciscoZionist

Most of the women I know play with guilds that include a lot of people they know in real life. We have married couples, old friends...it's just different.

That's how I do it. I rarely use voice chat unless I'm with my friends or guildmates. I don't use it publicly, just because I can do without the idiots.
my
These days, I've been playing a lot of Full House Poker on XBox Live, and I never have chat on unless it's my friends. It's more satisfying to beat someone and know that I'm a woman and that it probably bugs the shit out of them to get cleaned out by a girl. Heh.

324 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:21:27pm

re: #296 KingKenrod

Yes... This looks very good.

325 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:21:50pm

re: #309 kirkspencer

Because (at a guess) the instant far too many males know that's a Real Gurrl sharing their world, they quit treating her like another player.

My daughter prefers to use voice chat in most games, but has basically quit speaking unless she knows at least a couple of the other players. The HormoneBoyz either quit paying attention to her (despite her often topping kill boards) or they start letting the blood flow out of the brain and into other parts of their anatomy.

The women gamers sites I use to read all wound up ending because of (to put it simply) harassment: "Yeah, you talk a good game, but everyone knows real girls don't play."

/spit

This was womengamers.com and it was up for a long time, 11 years, but you're basically right. It's hard for gals.

She should practice being herself though and trying not to be intimidated or grossed out (heh). Well, it's hard for kids. The other day, my hubby was playing in a dungeon (he's 45 btw) and he wasn't used to his warrior in a group. To make a long story short, he didn't protect the priest (I know!!!) and they ended up kicking him out of the group and called him... ready? "You're so FUCKING GAY." He was so pissed, he didn't go on with that character for weeks.

326 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:22:23pm

re: #320 ggt

Pages search isn't working for me again.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

327 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:22:46pm

re: #307 ggt

CL? Do I know a CL?

No, I didnt' see the post. Where is it? This thread?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

328 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:22:50pm

re: #317 ggt

no.

The King in Yellow?
The Malleus Malleficarum?

329 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:23:21pm

re: #270 Slap

Only if my cheater slicks arrive before the event...!

Red Skelton is a distinct possibility -- our house never missed a Red Skelton show, so that would fit. Do you recall the slinky puppets? Or do I have unresolved issues?

I remember the slinky puppets but thought they were another show that did it. (Early sesame street?) Memory (untrustworthy these days) says Red's version was Red and someone else clowning around on a moon stage.

And if you get cheater sticks, watch out for the epoxy ones. They slide out at the most inappropriate times.

330 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:23:54pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

Please please please promise you'll stay away from the Kabbalah Center (or Centre) if you find one. "Rabbi" Berg's group. It's not real Kabbalah or Judaism.

QFT!

331 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:23:58pm

re: #310 marjoriemoon

Please please please promise you'll stay away from the Kabbalah Center (or Centre) if you find one. "Rabbi" Berg's group. It's not real Kabbalah or Judaism.

I read books on Kabbalah back when Madonna was first making a big todo about following it. What I read and what she talked about were so different that I just laugh when I see those red string bracelets.

It takes a real foundation of Judaism and of Hebrew studies to truly understand Kabbalah. It's why I never pursued it as anything other than a curiosity.

332 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:24:14pm

re: #326 wlewisiii

beat me to it.

333 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:25:23pm

re: #314 Lidane

ZOMG! RINO!

Lindsey Graham: Those Engaged In Anti-Muslim Hate Speech Are ‘Putting Our Soldiers At Risk’

He just gave the poo monkeys another reason to hate him.

334 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:25:33pm

re: #331 Lidane

I read books on Kabbalah back when Madonna was first making a big todo about following it. What I read and what she talked about were so different that I just laugh when I see those red string bracelets.

It takes a real foundation of Judaism and of Hebrew studies to truly understand Kabbalah. It's why I never pursued it as anything other than a curiosity.

A repost from that discussion that is relevant...

There is a lot of Kabballah floating around in this discussion too. My two cents on that is that it is impossible to go wrong with anything by either Akiva Tatz or Aryeh Kaplan. Tatz is a medical doctor in addition to being a very well respected rabbi. His books are very accessible and easy to read
introductions to Jewish mysticism - that are still both kosher and not watered down or over simplified to the point that they are wrong.

Aryeh Kaplan unfortunately died much too young. However, his books are a treasure. He was a nuclear physicist from MIT in addition to being a rabbi and while his books are meant to be on the introductory level (and they are) they are introductory in the same way that the best physics lectures you ever had freshman year are introductory. Don't let this scare you away from him! Real Kabballah is deeply mathematical and philosophical. Kabballah has its own vocabulary and its own set of deeply subtle and abstract concepts. Certain aspects of it are simply most clearly laid out like a mathematical argument and there is really no way around that. See it as a Feynman Lectures for Kabballah. Inner Space by Kaplan is a full on consciousness raiser. I would start there before going to any of his translations of actual Kaballistic texts.

335 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:26:18pm

re: #328 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

The King in Yellow?
The Malleus Malleficarum?

Dude. You know the king in Yellow.... Perhaps I should Lethe you alone...

336 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:26:28pm

re: #326 wlewisiii

re: #327 LudwigVanQuixote

Sooo sorry I missed that :(

337 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:28:27pm

re: #326 wlewisiii

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thanks!!!

I read This is My God years ago. Mostly because I love Herman Wouk. It was wonderful!!!!

I emailed my friends. Somehow, I think I need to take a class for this one. If only to learn how to pronouce the words correctly :)

338 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:28:58pm

re: #328 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

The King in Yellow?
The Malleus Malleficarum?

nah, I really think it's the first one of the discussion and you are pulling my leg.

339 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:29:19pm

re: #325 marjoriemoon

This was womengamers.com and it was up for a long time, 11 years, but you're basically right. It's hard for gals.

She should practice being herself though and trying not to be intimidated or grossed out (heh). Well, it's hard for kids. The other day, my hubby was playing in a dungeon (he's 45 btw) and he wasn't used to his warrior in a group. To make a long story short, he didn't protect the priest (I know!!!) and they ended up kicking him out of the group and called him... ready? "You're so FUCKING GAY." He was so pissed, he didn't go on with that character for weeks.

Ah - misunderstanding (for you and others) from me not being clear. I'm oldish (see other posts this thread about remembering watching Red Skelton) and my daughter's well into college, and we've been playing various games for a long time. MMOs are better than a lot of various pickup games have been over the years, and if you stick to only playing with people you know (good guildies) you're even more protected.

But if you like to PUG, or you're in a system with regional grouping (warhammer online, or rifts) you still see a lot of this crap directed at women if you're bothering to pay attention.

340 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:29:29pm

re: #335 LudwigVanQuixote

Dude. You know the king in Yellow... Perhaps I should Lethe you alone...

Have you seen the Yellow Sign?

Image: hastur-500x375.png

341 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:29:34pm

re: #288 wlewisiii

Hey, LVQ, good to catch you online. I've been curious to ask your opinion on Richard Elliott Friedman's Commentary on the Torah. I've picked it up from the public library and will probably buy a copy through the LGF-Amazon link but was wondering if you'd run into it.

I've actually never seen it. I can't comment. For up and up Torah commentary, I tend to think Rashi, Rambam and Ramban in that order...

342 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:29:56pm

My favorite mysterious document is the Voynich manuscript.

343 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:30:21pm

re: #331 Lidane

I read books on Kabbalah back when Madonna was first making a big todo about following it. What I read and what she talked about were so different that I just laugh when I see those red string bracelets.

It takes a real foundation of Judaism and of Hebrew studies to truly understand Kabbalah. It's why I never pursued it as anything other than a curiosity.

A Hindu Temple we visit sometimes ties little red strink around our wrists (as a reminder of G-d's everlasting presence). I didn't realize the Madonna crew did the same thing.

Had to laugh.

344 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:30:29pm

re: #340 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Have you seen the Yellow Sign?

Image: hastur-500x375.png

You are awesome!

345 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:31:48pm

re: #334 LudwigVanQuixote

Aryeh Kaplan is someone I need to read, I think. Thank you for the pointer back at that page.

346 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:32:27pm

Later all!

Thanks for the info!

347 Kragar  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:32:53pm

re: #344 LudwigVanQuixote

You are awesome!

But of course.

Image: hastur.jpg

348 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:33:05pm

re: #331 Lidane

I read books on Kabbalah back when Madonna was first making a big todo about following it. What I read and what she talked about were so different that I just laugh when I see those red string bracelets.

It takes a real foundation of Judaism and of Hebrew studies to truly understand Kabbalah. It's why I never pursued it as anything other than a curiosity.

The thing is that Torah is complete as it is. Kabbalah isn't really needed. It just brings in an added depth that to me (and I don't know a whole lot, just a little bit) makes it that much more interesting and intriguing. My mom has been studying for a long time. The New Age mishmash tries to touch on it and if you know any of that or "spiritualism," it would probably not be hard to understand Kabbalah if you're not Jewish. Does that make sense?

The problem I have with Berg or Madonna's brand is that it's all about talisman's and superstition. Run your hands over the pages of the Zohar and you automatically absorb its "protection." It's snake oil.

349 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:33:27pm

re: #345 wlewisiii

Aryeh Kaplan is someone I need to read, I think. Thank you for the pointer back at that page.

He is one of my all time favorite modern Jewish writers. His translation of the Tanach is also my favorite translation overall.

350 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:34:23pm

All this talking about gaming has got me thinking I should fire up FO:NV and start up on the last two endings for the game. Or maybe crack out ME2 and go for a run on Insanity.

351 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:35:30pm

re: #339 kirkspencer

Ah - misunderstanding (for you and others) from me not being clear. I'm oldish (see other posts this thread about remembering watching Red Skelton) and my daughter's well into college, and we've been playing various games for a long time. MMOs are better than a lot of various pickup games have been over the years, and if you stick to only playing with people you know (good guildies) you're even more protected.

But if you like to PUG, or you're in a system with regional grouping (warhammer online, or rifts) you still see a lot of this crap directed at women if you're bothering to pay attention.

Oh sorry about the miscommunication. I'm a loner online unless I'm playing with people I know hehe. Anyway, your daughter sounds like she can handle yourself, but it doesn't matter your age really. No one likes to be yelled at or talked down to.

352 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:36:11pm

re: #348 marjoriemoon

The New Age mishmash tries to touch on it and if you know any of that or "spiritualism," it would probably not be hard to understand Kabbalah if you're not Jewish. Does that make sense?

Sure, but I think there are parts to Kabbalah (or any religious viewpoint, really) that require much deeper cultural context. I got the sense when I was reading that not being a Jew and not knowing anything about Hebrew kinda put me at a disadvantage as far as really getting it. That's all.

353 Lidane  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:36:48pm

OK. Errands to run. Back later. Have fun, Lizards!

354 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:38:07pm

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

I've actually never seen it. I can't comment. For up and up Torah commentary, I tend to think Rashi, Rambam and Ramban in that order...

I have a feeling I'm going to add at least Rashi before too much longer but this one has been very valuable so far for me. Can you point me at a good English editon of Rashi?

Thanks!

355 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:38:14pm

re: #350 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

All this talking about gaming has got me thinking I should fire up FO:NV and start up on the last two endings for the game. Or maybe crack out ME2 and go for a run on Insanity.

I ran through ME2 on insanity several times with different characters. That way I have some great renegades, paragons, and balanced characters to import into ME3.

356 What, me worry?  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:38:59pm

re: #343 ggt

A Hindu Temple we visit sometimes ties little red strink around our wrists (as a reminder of G-d's everlasting presence). I didn't realize the Madonna crew did the same thing.

Had to laugh.

I like that idea actually.

Here's a good explanation of the origin of the red string in Judaism and its distortion.

[Link: www.rachelstomb.org...]

357 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:43:10pm

re: #355 prononymous

I ran through ME2 on insanity several times with different characters. That way I have some great renegades, paragons, and balanced characters to import into ME3.

I never could seem to find the patience to make an insanity run through before. Certainly not on ME1, even before I downloaded the DLCs and learned new levels of pain.

358 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:46:20pm

re: #354 wlewisiii

I have a feeling I'm going to add at least Rashi before too much longer but this one has been very valuable so far for me. Can you point me at a good English editon of Rashi?

Thanks!

Go Artscroll. It depends on what you are looking to do. Rashi is the basis of much Torah scholarship, meaning that one often starts with him as a first step in Yeshiva. Rashi has an encyclopedic understanding of the Midrash and a deep understanding of the Hebrew Language. He assumes a lot of prior knowledge. Of course the only way to get that knowledge is to dive in, ask yourself why he is asking what he is asking, and then look up the background material.

359 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:47:12pm

re: #354 wlewisiii

I would also really recommend Abarbenel.

360 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:47:46pm

re: #358 LudwigVanQuixote

Go Artscroll. It depends on what you are looking to do. Rashi is the basis of much Torah scholarship, meaning that one often starts with him as a first step in Yeshiva. Rashi has an encyclopedic understanding of the Midrash and a deep understanding of the Hebrew Language. He assumes a lot of prior knowledge. Of course the only way to get that knowledge is to dive in, ask yourself why he is asking what he is asking, and then look up the background material.

Thanks, that's what I'll do then.

361 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:53:26pm

re: #348 marjoriemoon

The thing is that Torah is complete as it is. Kabbalah isn't really needed. It just brings in an added depth that to me (and I don't know a whole lot, just a little bit) makes it that much more interesting and intriguing.

I have to disagree with you. Kaballah is a central part of the Oral Tradition. It is wholly impossible to make sense of the written Torah without the Oral Tradition.

My mom has been studying for a long time. The New Age mishmash tries to touch on it and if you know any of that or "spiritualism," it would probably not be hard to understand Kabbalah if you're not Jewish. Does that make sense?

You make sense, but again, I really have to disagree. Real Kaballah talks about things that are most easily translated to English by the use o things like set theory and projective geometry. For example, there are five levels of spiritual reality from Adom Kadmom down to here. Not surprisingly, the permutations of Divine names and the meanings ascribed to them fit into a pattern that follows the Rotation group in 5 dimensions. You have to be very serious about your definitions and your ability to form abstractions. Any kaballah that does not challenge on a deep level is not Kabballah.

The problem I have with Berg or Madonna's brand is that it's all about talisman's and superstition. Run your hands over the pages of the Zohar and you automatically absorb its "protection." It's snake oil.

This is utterly true.

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:56:00pm

re: #358 LudwigVanQuixote

Go Artscroll. It depends on what you are looking to do. Rashi is the basis of much Torah scholarship, meaning that one often starts with him as a first step in Yeshiva. Rashi has an encyclopedic understanding of the Midrash and a deep understanding of the Hebrew Language. He assumes a lot of prior knowledge. Of course the only way to get that knowledge is to dive in, ask yourself why he is asking what he is asking, and then look up the background material.

"What's Bothering Rashi" is a good series that may help get the hang of the kind of issues that come up in the commentaries.

I also recommend a series called "The Midrash Says" for general read.

363 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 2:56:35pm

re: #362 SanFranciscoZionist

"What's Bothering Rashi" is a good series that may help get the hang of the kind of issues that come up in the commentaries.

I also recommend a series called "The Midrash Says" for general read.

Excellent points!

364 garhighway  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:07:02pm

Back to the topic for a sec: I would respectfully suggest that you can reasonably answer "yes" to any question that begins "Is Palin really so dim that she didn’t understand..."

Just sayin'.

365 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:13:39pm

re: #354 wlewisiii

I have a feeling I'm going to add at least Rashi before too much longer but this one has been very valuable so far for me. Can you point me at a good English editon of Rashi?

Thanks!

Everything you need is at the Zionist Mall.

366 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:14:58pm

re: #357 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I never could seem to find the patience to make an insanity run through before. Certainly not on ME1, even before I downloaded the DLCs and learned new levels of pain.

I never did it with ME1. I didn't even import my character for some reason. In ME2 insanity was the hardest for me with a vanguard, but still doable with good strategy.

367 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:16:39pm

re: #366 prononymous

I never did it with ME1. I didn't even import my character for some reason. In ME2 insanity was the hardest for me with a vanguard, but still doable with good strategy.

Guess that's probably why I never did it, because I play a Soldier and strategy tends to involve finding a way to kill everything on the screen without burning through all my heat sinks.

368 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:22:48pm

re: #367 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's doable with a soldier. I'd pick adrenaline rush and combat mastery, and an ammo power (warp IMO, but you have to have played through once already IIRC) if you have spare points. Then just carefully pick teammates that back up your main character's weaknesses on any particular mission.

369 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:24:31pm

re: #368 prononymous

It's doable with a soldier. I'd pick adrenaline rush and combat mastery, and an ammo power (warp IMO, but you have to have played through once already IIRC) if you have spare points. Then just carefully pick teammates that back up your main character's weaknesses on any particular mission.

Vanguard with a sniper rifle all the way for me or an adept with an assault rifle.

370 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:27:33pm

re: #368 prononymous

It's doable with a soldier. I'd pick adrenaline rush and combat mastery, and an ammo power (warp IMO, but you have to have played through once already IIRC) if you have spare points. Then just carefully pick teammates that back up your main character's weaknesses on any particular mission.

*shifty look* I figured out a way to cheat with the points. But I only did that once...really...

371 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:27:47pm

re: #369 LudwigVanQuixote

Vanguard with a sniper rifle all the way for me or an adept with an assault rifle.

Yeah, I didn't like that they disallowed certain classes from using a sniper rifle in ME2. A vanguard with a shotgun just isn't the same. :(

Though heavy charge more than makes up for it, and it fits well with the weapon restriction.

372 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:29:56pm

re: #370 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*shifty look* I figured out a way to cheat with the points. But I only did that once...really...

It's a single-player video game. You can do whatever you want to it and I won't make a peep. Now do that in a multiplayer game and I'll object.

373 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:31:23pm

re: #372 prononymous

It's a single-player video game. You can do whatever you want to it and I won't make a peep. Now do that in a multiplayer game and I'll object.

Hell no, I have more honor than that. I don't even use cheats until I've beaten a game once without them.

Now exploits, that's fair game.

374 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:31:47pm

re: #371 prononymous

Yeah, I didn't like that they disallowed certain classes from using a sniper rifle in ME2. A vanguard with a shotgun just isn't the same. :(

Though heavy charge more than makes up for it, and it fits well with the weapon restriction.

You can get a sniper rifle in ME2 as a Vangaurd. I don't understand?

375 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:35:12pm

re: #374 LudwigVanQuixote

You can get a sniper rifle in ME2 as a Vangaurd. I don't understand?

Really? I never could and that jives with this: [Link: masseffect.wikia.com...]

The main difference between Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 is that the Vanguard is now more focused on close combat. This focus on shock force comes at the cost of the durability and combat longevity of the Vanguard as compared to Mass Effect. Vanguards are able to use the following weapons: heavy pistols, submachine guns, shotguns, and heavy weapons. Shotguns mix well with the Vanguard's signature ability, Charge.

376 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:37:32pm

Err, after reading that it says that I could, but during that one collector ship mission. I didn't pick it up then.

377 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:39:55pm

re: #375 prononymous

You can pick up the sniper rifle on the first collector ship mission.

378 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:40:50pm

If there's one thing I like about ME2, it's that they really expanded on the idea of tailoring your team to your fighting style. Especially if you get the DLCs and pick up Zaeed and Kasumi.

379 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:43:00pm

re: #377 LudwigVanQuixote

[Video]You can pick up the sniper rifle on the first collector ship mission.

Yeah, I just realized that. But I wasn't going to pass up the claymore on that mission.

380 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:45:58pm

re: #379 prononymous

Yeah, I just realized that. But I wasn't going to pass up the claymore on that mission.

A fine choice. The Claymore makes up close and personal very effective. However, I found that the Geth shotty is more than adequate, and adding a little reach out and touch capacity to the vanguard made for a more multi purpose character.

381 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:48:52pm

I always grab the Widow, because nothing says lovin' like an anti-tank shell through a Scion's skull. God, I don't know which I hate, them or regular Husks.

382 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 3:49:39pm

re: #380 LudwigVanQuixote

Yeah, I like the Geth shotgun so much better for the late game. But I like having both available for various missions, they have different modifiers. And I wasn't thinking about backing off from the in-your-face approach - that's what an insanity run with an infiltrator + widow is for :D.

383 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 5:08:31pm

re: #153 one2

Overstating the cost by a factor of 7 actually equates to overstating it by 600%. Not 700%. More basic math!

That's your first comment after 7 years of being registered?

I wondered if anyone would bring this up - but it depends on how you look at it. Palin's figure is 700% of the real amount, so it's not inaccurate to say she overstated it by 700%. If she hadn't overstated it, it would have been 100% of the real amount.

If I had written that her amount was "700% higher," that would have been inaccurate. So I didn't.

384 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 5:15:26pm

re: #383 Charles

That's your first comment after 7 years of being registered?

I found that remarkable also, although I haven't had time to remark on it until now.

Do you get many "forgotten password" requests from registrants like this one?

385 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 5:54:40pm

re: #380 LudwigVanQuixote

Hello,you!

386 Petero1818  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:06:52pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

That Palin interview is tough to watch, They keep saying the same thing over and over for 10 minutes. It should have been a 2 minute segment, after that they ran out of things to say.

And you just noticed that now? Have you not watched this moron for the last 2 years?

387 Gus  Tue, Mar 29, 2011 6:48:32pm

Too many mistakes. Sarah Palin is a pathological liar. She fits in with the Fox News staff.


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