Just coming over the wires: all votes have been counted in Wisconsin’s Supreme Court race, and the winner is JoAnne Kloppenburg.
The tally:
JoAnne Kloppenburg - 740,090
David Prosser - 739,886
However, with a margin as close as this a recount is a given, which means the results could change.
1 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:26:36pm |
I agree a recall is going to happen and it could go either way, still its nice to know that Democrats we're going into the recount with the lead!
| 3 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:31:46pm |
It's a good thing Joanne turned her hat around backwards and readjusted her grip.
"When I turn the hat around its like a switch."
-Stallone, Over the Top
Such a great awful movie.
| 4 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:33:19pm |
re: #3 goddamnedfrank
I was hanging out with my wife's med-school friends the other night and none of them had ever heard of it. Made me feel old.
I love shouting "over the top" during moments where someone needs to give an extra little push.
| 5 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:35:29pm |
Considering he was the favorite just weeks ago by a large margin and that outside groups spent over 2 million on his re-election, this is sweet indeed!
| 6 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:35:36pm |
re: #3 goddamnedfrank
It's a good thing Joanne turned her hat around backwards and readjusted her grip.
"When I turn the hat around its like a switch."
-Stallone, Over the TopSuch a great awful movie.
"I'm a machine. Like my truck."
Another brilliant line from that same movie. A friend of mine and I, every couple of weeks, will buy a bunch of beer and watch awful movies. It's how we bond, lol. That film is in the rotation, and my friend and I agree: one of the worst movies ever made. It's also hilarious to watch when drunk.
| 7 |
recusancy Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:35:54pm |
| 8 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:37:09pm |
re: #7 recusancy
Back in February, during the primaries, Prossner won 55% to Kloppenburg's 25%.
And the remaining 20% voted for a turd sandwich in protest. /
| 9 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:37:34pm |
That is a statistical tie. On the order of 1/50th of the expected error margin in an election as I see it. (plus or minus 2%) Heck even recounts can hardly get to the accuracy an election this close reliably. May as well flip a coin.
| 10 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:39:07pm |
re: #4 Obdicut
I was hanging out with my wife's med-school friends the other night and none of them had ever heard of it. Made me feel old.
I love shouting "over the top" during moments where someone needs to give an extra little push.
I'm more of a "YOU CAN DOOO IT" from the Waterboy kind of guy.
| 11 |
recusancy Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:40:50pm |
@daveweigel
Free New York Post hed: KLOPPENBURNED
| 12 |
Interesting Times Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:41:30pm |
Prosser must think these results are a bitch.
| 13 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:43:00pm |
| 14 |
sagehen Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:44:46pm |
just under 2/100 of 1%.
Never let anybody tell you GOTV isn't the most important part of a campaign.
| 15 |
SpaceJesus Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:46:19pm |
regardless, this is huge to upset an incumbent judge like that.
the tea party has a "mandate" my ass
| 18 |
sagehen Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:49:01pm |
re: #16 recusancy
So people in Madison aren't "real" Wisconsinites? Only rural, small-town Wisconsonites are "real"?
How Paliniac of him.
| 19 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:49:09pm |
re: #17 Killgore Trout
Wake up, Republicans.
They're wide awake. They're "winning", in the most Charlie Sheen sense of the word.
| 20 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:49:58pm |
So she goes from an outside chance to a squeaker win in the course of two months. Yeah, that's not indicative of voter disapproval at all. *rolls eyes*
| 21 |
abbyadams Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:50:23pm |
re: #16 recusancy
You've got a world driven by Madison, and a world driven by everybody else out across the majority of the rest of the state of Wisconsin.
Hello? It's like that in most of the country, cities vote one way, rural another. That sounds a little like "real American" talk to me, which is really very offensive in my book.
| 22 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:50:34pm |
| 23 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:50:35pm |
| 24 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:51:27pm |
re: #6 Fozzie Bear
"I'm a machine. Like my truck."
Another brilliant line from that same movie. A friend of mine and I, every couple of weeks, will buy a bunch of beer and watch awful movies. It's how we bond, lol. That film is in the rotation, and my friend and I agree: one of the worst movies ever made. It's also hilarious to watch when drunk.
"I always wanted to be a milk shake."
-Lincoln Hawk
| 25 |
Neutral President Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:51:36pm |
re: #18 sagehen
So people in Madison aren't "real" Wisconsinites? Only rural, small-town Wisconsonites are "real"?
How Paliniac of him.
I think Texas feels the same about Austin too.
| 26 |
simoom Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:52:36pm |
re: #16 recusancy
Walker:
"For those who believe it's a referendum, while it might have a statewide impact that we may lean one way or the other, it's largely driven by Madison, and to a lesser extent Milwaukee," the governor said. "But those Senate recall elections on both the Democrat and Republican side aren't being held in Madison, they aren't being held in Milwaukee."
From Weigel's blog:
[Wisconsin Democratic Senator Mark] Miller made one more point. According to his math, Kloppenburg won by a 60-40 margin in the district of Dan Kapanke, the first Republican that recall petitions were submitted against.
| 27 |
sagehen Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:57:11pm |
re: #25 ArchangelMichael
I think Texas feels the same about Austin too.
Upstate New Yorkers would like to say such things about NYC, but.... sadly, no. Doesn't fly here; not when the city has 14 congressional districts and our suburbs have almost a dozen more (scattered across three states).
Manhattan is about as "real New York" as it gets.
| 28 |
William of Orange Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:58:02pm |
Well, we know what a recount can mean. Kloppenburg's lead could increase. This is how Al Franken secured his seat.
| 29 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:58:18pm |
re: #1 jamesfirecat
I agree a recall is going to happen and it could go either way, still its nice to know that Democrats we're going into the recount with the lead!
It CAN'T "go either way". A lead of a few hundred cannot, by legitimate means, evaporate in a recount. Now such leads have evaporated as miraculous boxes of spare ballots show up to be "counted", but that's another story.
| 30 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:58:32pm |
Family Values campaign is going great...
Teen Finds Campaign Worker At Back Door At 3AM
"His arm was in my back door, trying to get in and I screamed and went upstairs to my parents room and I continued screaming," said Chloe Steward.
The family then called police.
Police said Benjamin Foster was arrested and charged with public intoxication and trespassing. He was taken to the Polk County Jail.
Iowa political strategist Eric Woolson is a consultant for the Pawlenty Exploratory Committee. He confirmed to KCCI that Foster is employed by the Pawlenty Exploratory Committee. He declined comment at this time on the incident.
Tim Pawlenty is the former governor of Minnesota and has an office in Iowa to explore a possible presidential campaign.
The Steward family said Foster was drunk and was trying to get home to a friend's house in Johnston. They said he vomited in their backyard and scared their daughter.
| 31 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:59:43pm |
re: #29 lostlakehiker
It CAN'T "go either way". A lead of a few hundred cannot, by legitimate means, evaporate in a recount. Now such leads have evaporated as miraculous boxes of spare ballots show up to be "counted", but that's another story.
Sorry I'm a democrat I've found it never hurts to expect my party to screw things up at the last minuet.
Thus I don't want to get my hopes up quite yet that the recount will go our way....
| 32 |
recusancy Wed, Apr 6, 2011 12:59:58pm |
re: #30 Killgore Trout
Family Values campaign is going great...
Teen Finds Campaign Worker At Back Door At 3AM
He's on twitter too! [Link: twitter.com...]
| 33 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:00:05pm |
"Eric Woolson, speaking for the exploratory committee, said, "Governor Pawlenty is extremely disappointed in Ben’s actions and his behavior does not meet the standards he expects of his employees. Therefore, the committee is placing Ben on a two-week unpaid suspension and expects him to bear the legal consequences for his action.'"
lol
| 35 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:01:29pm |
re: #18 sagehen
So people in Madison aren't "real" Wisconsinites? Only rural, small-town Wisconsonites are "real"?
How Paliniac of him.
It's typical of the elitist mindset that conservative politicians like Walker and Palin and countless others have. Urbanites aren't real Americans or residents of the state because of their liberal tendencies. I grew up in the suburbs and I live in a fairly rural and small town when I am not at school but this shit really pisses me off. Keep on spitting on people, Walker, you dumb fuck.
| 36 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:01:43pm |
re: #29 lostlakehiker
It CAN'T "go either way". A lead of a few hundred cannot, by legitimate means, evaporate in a recount. Now such leads have evaporated as miraculous boxes of spare ballots show up to be "counted", but that's another story.
Oh right. You still believe AL Franken stole the election, don't you?
| 37 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:03:47pm |
re: #29 lostlakehiker
It CAN'T "go either way". A lead of a few hundred cannot, by legitimate means, evaporate in a recount. Now such leads have evaporated as miraculous boxes of spare ballots show up to be "counted", but that's another story.
Al Franken won dude. Get over it.
| 38 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:04:40pm |
The politicization of the American Judiciary is perhaps the most absurd aspect of the American electoral system (and that is really saying something).
| 39 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:05:47pm |
re: #38 Petero1818
The politicization of the American Judiciary is perhaps the most absurd aspect of the American electoral system (and that is really saying something).
I still think the dysfunctionality of the senate with secret holds and unlimited sitting filibusters take the cake personally.
| 40 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:06:53pm |
| 41 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:07:01pm |
re: #9 Rightwingconspirator
That is a statistical tie. On the order of 1/50th of the expected error margin in an election as I see it. (plus or minus 2%) Heck even recounts can hardly get to the accuracy an election this close reliably. May as well flip a coin.
You're way wrong about the expected error margin. In an election of 1400000 votes, assuming all voters tossed a coin, the standard deviation will be about 530. So it's nothing particularly out of the ordinary if the actual margin is 400.
Once the election has been held and the votes have been counted, there's very, very little room for LEGITIMATE changes due to recounting.
It can happen that a few of the absentee ballots were marked ambiguously, and in an impartial review, as with going to the tape after a questionable call on the field, the original intent of the voter can be discerned to have been different from what was originally recorded. Or it can happen that the original intent of the voter is indecipherable. Not 1 percent of the votes come from a recount-able pool, and of those, not 1 percent are truly ambiguous. That means that in an honest recount, we should expect the tally to change by maybe 50, tops. More likely, it'll change by 5 or 10 or 20 or something like that.
To get a change of 400 votes requires foul play.
| 42 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:07:17pm |
re: #29 lostlakehiker
It CAN'T "go either way". A lead of a few hundred cannot, by legitimate means, evaporate in a recount. Now such leads have evaporated as miraculous boxes of spare ballots show up to be "counted", but that's another story.
Do you really understand how American politics works? Initial counts can sometimes be WRONG. People make mistakes. The purpose of a recount is to verify that any mistakes that were made did not compromise the validity of the results.
| 43 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:07:53pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation: Wisconsin Voter Fraud Haunts Razor-Thin Supreme Court Election
That didn't take long.
| 44 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:08:06pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation: Wisconsin Voter Fraud Haunts Razor-Thin Supreme Court Election
A Dem wins, well obviously voter fraud must be involved. Color me shocked.
/
| 45 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:08:21pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation: Wisconsin Voter Fraud Haunts Razor-Thin Supreme Court Election
So. Fucking. Predictable.
| 46 |
wrenchwench Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:09:04pm |
re: #15 SpaceJesus
the tea party has a "mandate" my ass
It would be so juvenile of me to re-punctuate that.
| 47 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:09:15pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation: Wisconsin Voter Fraud Haunts Razor-Thin Supreme Court Election
Unfuckingbelievable. It's always fraud when a Democrat wins a close race but Democrats are "sore losers" when they complain.
| 48 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:09:34pm |
re: #44 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
A Dem wins, well obviously voter fraud must be involved. Color me shocked.
/
| 49 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:09:45pm |
I am sure ACORN, George Soros, & others will be blamed.
| 50 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:09:49pm |
re: #41 lostlakehiker
You're way wrong about the expected error margin. In an election of 1400000 votes, assuming all voters tossed a coin, the standard deviation will be about 530. So it's nothing particularly out of the ordinary if the actual margin is 400.
Once the election has been held and the votes have been counted, there's very, very little room for LEGITIMATE changes due to recounting.
It can happen that a few of the absentee ballots were marked ambiguously, and in an impartial review, as with going to the tape after a questionable call on the field, the original intent of the voter can be discerned to have been different from what was originally recorded. Or it can happen that the original intent of the voter is indecipherable. Not 1 percent of the votes come from a recount-able pool, and of those, not 1 percent are truly ambiguous. That means that in an honest recount, we should expect the tally to change by maybe 50, tops. More likely, it'll change by 5 or 10 or 20 or something like that.
To get a change of 400 votes requires foul play.
Or, you know, a faulty ballot counting machine or a crappy pen for marking ballots or confusion about exactly how to fill things out....
| 51 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:11:10pm |
re: #31 jamesfirecat
Sorry I'm a democrat I've found it never hurts to expect my party to screw things up at the last minuet.
Thus I don't want to get my hopes up quite yet that the recount will go our way...
I've never seen a single recount tip from Democrat to Republican. Can anybody find a link where that happened? If so, how large a swing was involved? 5? 10?
| 52 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:11:40pm |
Note that Fox didn't even wait an hour after the tally came in.
This story was pre-written for this occasion.
| 53 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:12:32pm |
re: #52 Fozzie Bear
Note that Fox didn't even wait an hour after the tally came in.
This story was pre-written for this occasion.
As I've said, Fox's problem isn't so much bias, it's that their damned bias gets in way of reporting the news.
| 54 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:12:36pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
I've never seen a single recount tip from Democrat to Republican. Can anybody find a link where that happened? If so, how large a swing was involved? 5? 10?
Just say it dude. Why beat around the bush? Just let it out, let us know what you think.
| 55 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:12:49pm |
re: #52 Fozzie Bear
Note that Fox didn't even wait an hour after the tally came in.
This story was pre-written for this occasion.
"We lost, so voter fraud must be involved"
| 56 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:12:53pm |
re: #49 HappyWarrior
I am sure ACORN, George Soros, & others will be blamed.
Yeah, here come the claims of "machines already had votes loaded in them," and "more ballots than voters" and so forth. Hell, maybe there's video that will be posted of little old women standing at the polls, threatening folks with rolling pins if they didn't vote for Kloppenburg.
| 57 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:12:58pm |
re: #53 HappyWarrior
As I've said, Fox's problem isn't so much bias, it's that their damned bias gets in way of reporting the news.
That's a feature not a bug darling.
| 58 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:13:33pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation: Wisconsin Voter Fraud Haunts Razor-Thin Supreme Court Election
Well of course!
On a side note, just noticed Fox Nation's pic of the day
Oh, BTW she is just another Hollywood illegal anyway, according to one comment.
| 59 |
Petero1818 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:13:52pm |
re: #39 jamesfirecat
I still think the dysfunctionality of the senate with secret holds and unlimited sitting filibusters take the cake personally.
I guess I find that to be merely a function of the idiosyncratic procedural rules or at least a bastardization of them. The politicization of the judiciary I find to be wholly antithetical to the notion of independence of the Judiciary.
| 60 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:14:35pm |
re: #50 Simply Sarah
Or, you know, a faulty ballot counting machine or a crappy pen for marking ballots or confusion about exactly how to fill things out...
Confusion is not grounds for revoking votes. To have any other rule simply means that the authorities can have the vote any way they want it.
Crappy pens still indent the paper.
Only a handful of ballots are legitimately open to differences of opinion about what was actually marked on them.
| 61 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:14:47pm |
re: #53 HappyWarrior
As I've said, Fox's problem isn't so much bias, it's that their damned bias gets in way of reporting the news.
Everybody has bias. Honest people, however, ADMIT their bias so people know up front how the reporting will be colored. The thing that pisses me off about Fox is that they claim to be objective and unbiased, when it is demonstrably not true.
| 62 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:14:59pm |
| 63 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:15:27pm |
re: #60 lostlakehiker
Confusion is not grounds for revoking votes. To have any other rule simply means that the authorities can have the vote any way they want it.
Crappy pens still indent the paper.
Only a handful of ballots are legitimately open to differences of opinion about what was actually marked on them.
Uh...and you're point? You do realize that recounts can *increase* the number of ballots counted, not just void them, right?
| 64 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:15:50pm |
re: #59 Petero1818
I guess I find that to be merely a function of the idiosyncratic procedural rules or at least a bastardization of them. The politicization of the judiciary I find to be wholly antithetical to the notion of independence of the Judiciary.
In theory any created error created by the non independent Judiciary on a state level can be fixed by our non elected judiciary at the supreme court levle.
There's no one to fix the problems that arise out of not being able to do ANYTHING in the senate these days without a 60 vote super majority.
That's why I find the filibuster more infuriating there's no one on a higher level to correct for problems.
| 65 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:15:50pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
I've never seen a single recount tip from Democrat to Republican. Can anybody find a link where that happened? If so, how large a swing was involved? 5? 10?
The absolute numbers don't matter. The percentage of the total vote that swings does.
At least stay consistent.
| 66 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:16:01pm |
re: #54 Fozzie Bear
Just say it dude. Why beat around the bush? Just let it out, let us know what you think.
What would YOU think, with those facts? I'm not reporting what I think, I'm reporting the evidence I've seen.
As to this election, I think that the Democrat won, and I'm absolutely confident that the result will hold up.
| 67 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:16:23pm |
re: #60 lostlakehiker
Confusion is not grounds for revoking votes. To have any other rule simply means that the authorities can have the vote any way they want it.
Crappy pens still indent the paper.
Only a handful of ballots are legitimately open to differences of opinion about what was actually marked on them.
Votes that were erroneously counted in one column or another aren't "revoked" when the error is corrected.
As for the bolded sentence, I have to wonder how you felt about dimpled chads and the Gore/Bush election.
| 68 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:17:17pm |
re: #61 thedopefishlives
Everybody has bias. Honest people, however, ADMIT their bias so people know up front how the reporting will be colored. The thing that pisses me off about Fox is that they claim to be objective and unbiased, when it is demonstrably not true.
Yep, that's true too.
| 70 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:19:00pm |
| 72 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:19:06pm |
re: #66 lostlakehiker
What would YOU think, with those facts? I'm not reporting what I think, I'm reporting the evidence I've seen.
As to this election, I think that the Democrat won, and I'm absolutely confident that the result will hold up.
I would think it's absurd to insinuate that the DNC systematically commits election fraud without providing any evidence, but hey, that's just me.
| 73 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:20:21pm |
re: #72 Fozzie Bear
I would think it's absurd to insinuate that the DNC systematically commits election fraud without providing any evidence, but hey, that's just me.
Somebody call the reindoctrination office, we've got a THINKER on the loose.
| 74 |
sagehen Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:20:23pm |
re: #41 lostlakehiker
You're way wrong about the expected error margin. In an election of 1400000 votes, assuming all voters tossed a coin, the standard deviation will be about 530. So it's nothing particularly out of the ordinary if the actual margin is 400.
Once the election has been held and the votes have been counted, there's very, very little room for LEGITIMATE changes due to recounting.
(snip)
To get a change of 400 votes requires foul play.
Not true.
When ballots are fed through the optical scanner, some of them are off-center or the paper was wrinkled or two pages stuck together or somebody used pen instead of #2 pencil -- there's lots of reasons they might not register. Hundreds more votes will be found; the question is whose.
| 75 |
recusancy Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:20:24pm |
re: #71 albusteve
stupid me...why is this woman important?
Why are judges important??? Why do you come to political blogs if you don't like politics?
| 76 |
Bob Dillon Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:20:33pm |
re: #39 jamesfirecat
I still think the dysfunctionality of the senate with secret holds and unlimited sitting filibusters take the cake personally.
I think this trumps that: Hotlining is a system that allows legislation to pass by “unanimous consent,” usually in the evening, when almost no Senators are present.
[Link: washingtonexaminer.com...]
| 77 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:20:40pm |
re: #71 albusteve
stupid me...why is this woman important?
Basically, this was a referendum on Scott Walker. She will shift the SC of WI from conservative to more liberal.
| 78 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:20:53pm |
re: #65 Obdicut
The absolute numbers don't matter. The percentage of the total vote that swings does.
At least stay consistent.
Actually, the mathematics of voting and error correction say different. The larger the election, the less probable a swing of a certain percentage becomes.
In an election involving 100 votes, with 1 percent of the ballots open to "replay", a 1 vote swing is reasonably possible. That's 1 percent, or 2 percent if it flips.
In an election involving 100 million votes, with 1 million of them "open to replay", the probability of a swing of 1 percent in the final tally is negligible.
I'd rather stay consistent with accurate thinking about probability, than adhere to some sounds-good notion of consistency.
| 79 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:21:06pm |
re: #64 jamesfirecat
In theory any created error created by the non independent Judiciary on a state level can be fixed by our non elected judiciary at the supreme court levle.
There's no one to fix the problems that arise out of not being able to do ANYTHING in the senate these days without a 60 vote super majority.
That's why I find the filibuster more infuriating there's no one on a higher level to correct for problems.
It's not as simple as that. Most case law results from inferior courts, not the SCOTUS, especially these days with the Supreme Court taking fewer cases. You also have all the cases that never leave state courts (As they are on matters of state law/the state constitution).
To me, an objective (As possible) independent judiciary is the most critical underpinning of the American system, since it is best equipped to fight back against the excesses of the other branches. Making unpopular rulings shouldn't be grounds to lose your job as a judge (Assuming they weren't made in a criminal manner or if you are completely incompetent).
| 80 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:21:20pm |
re: #72 Fozzie Bear
I would think it's absurd to insinuate that the DNC systematically commits election fraud without providing any evidence, but hey, that's just me.
lol....how do you prove the sky is blue?....dems punk the system and always have
| 81 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:21:24pm |
re: #69 Stanley Sea
Sanity break. Er...
FrumForum FrumForum
Boehner Cries in Budget Meeting: ABC News reports: He did it again. John Boehner was driven to tears again... [Link: bit.ly...] #tcot
I always feel kind of "ehh" about mocking Boehner for his crying because it makes me worry that to do so is to reinforce the meme that a "real man" shouldn't be in touch with his emotions enough to cry easily.
His fake tan however I feel free to mock as the only people I'm likely to offend are the Ompa-Lompas who have proven themselves to be a hardworking industrious people who don't care to be compared to the Speaker...
| 82 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:21:41pm |
re: #71 albusteve
stupid me...why is this woman important?
The hope is that her being elected to the state Supreme Court will swing the voting majority in the liberals favor, providing the means to invalidate Walker's anti-union bill.
| 83 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:22:07pm |
re: #71 albusteve
stupid me...why is this woman important?
It throws out a conservative judge who supported Walker's union busting bill. Voters are getting the Republicans out of office because of their radical agenda.
| 84 |
b_Snark Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:22:39pm |
re: #51 lostlakehiker
I've never seen a single recount tip from Democrat to Republican. Can anybody find a link where that happened? If so, how large a swing was involved? 5? 10?
You're pissing on your leg.
| 85 |
webevintage Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:22:49pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation: Wisconsin Voter Fraud Haunts Razor-Thin Supreme Court Election
Of course it does...
| 86 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:23:01pm |
re: #80 albusteve
lol...how do you prove the sky is blue?...dems punk the system and always have
Yes, clearly, the DNC is a shadowy cabal, stuffing ballot boxes at midnight. They are the Illuminati. They are everywhere, and yet, they are nowhere. /
| 87 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:23:32pm |
re: #72 Fozzie Bear
I would think it's absurd to insinuate that the DNC systematically commits election fraud without providing any evidence, but hey, that's just me.
The Democrats, shall we just say, are very, very skilled in getting every issue decided their way. It isn't necessarily a felony to be better at winning, in the replay booth, calls that could go either way, than the other party. But it does mean that the Democrats effectively never lose a recount from an initial edge of hundreds.
| 88 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:23:37pm |
re: #9 Rightwingconspirator
That is a statistical tie. On the order of 1/50th of the expected error margin in an election as I see it. (plus or minus 2%) Heck even recounts can hardly get to the accuracy an election this close reliably. May as well flip a coin.
I tell you, there is a force out there in the universe called The Equalizer. It's the same one that makes a circle round and why the earth pushes up on your feet with just exactly the amount needed to let you float on the surface. Symmetry and balance it is, and I'm going to apply for tax exemption for my new religion.
| 89 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:23:41pm |
re: #78 lostlakehiker
You might want, at some point, to back up your assertions. At all.
In the case of your math above, you're begging the question by assuming that 1 percent are open to 'replay', whatever the fuck that means.
Can you please explain this statement?
Not 1 percent of the votes come from a recount-able pool, and of those, not 1 percent are truly ambiguous.
Do you understand that in a recount, all votes are recounted? It kind of seems like you don't.
| 90 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:23:56pm |
re: #77 blueraven
Basically, this was a referendum on Scott Walker. She will shift the SC of WI from conservative to more liberal.
ah I see...I'd almost forgotten the dust up in WI
| 91 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:24:09pm |
All the republican talking points are coming out to play. it's like a grand reunion of stupid.
| 92 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:24:41pm |
| 93 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:24:44pm |
re: #75 recusancy
Why are judges important??? Why do you come to political blogs if you don't like politics?
for the top shelf entertainment you provide
| 94 |
webevintage Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:24:46pm |
re: #87 lostlakehiker
The Democrats, shall we just say, are very, very skilled in getting every issue decided their way. It isn't necessarily a felony to be better at winning, in the replay booth, calls that could go either way, than the other party. But it does mean that the Democrats effectively never lose a recount from an initial edge of hundreds.
hahahahahahahahahaha
the spin...oh the spin
| 95 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:24:53pm |
re: #87 lostlakehiker
The Democrats, shall we just say, are very, very skilled in getting every issue decided their way. It isn't necessarily a felony to be better at winning, in the replay booth, calls that could go either way, than the other party. But it does mean that the Democrats effectively never lose a recount from an initial edge of hundreds.
How many recounts would we need to find that the democrat went form a leading to losing in order to make you admit that you're mistaken?
| 96 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:25:24pm |
| 97 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:25:32pm |
re: #82 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The hope is that her being elected to the state Supreme Court will swing the voting majority in the liberals favor, providing the means to invalidate Walker's anti-union bill.
I have to say, though, that I hope whomever wins will fairly apply the law and state/federal constitutions to judging any challenges to the law. I may think the law is abhorrent and completely politically motivated, but that is not, by itself, grounds for striking or otherwise restricting it through the courts.
| 99 |
Achilles Tang Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:25:53pm |
re: #87 lostlakehiker
The Democrats, shall we just say, are very, very skilled in getting every issue decided their way. It isn't necessarily a felony to be better at winning, in the replay booth, calls that could go either way, than the other party. But it does mean that the Democrats effectively never lose a recount from an initial edge of hundreds.
Huh? GWB?
| 100 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:05pm |
It's hilarious to me that the people who cry loudest about the Dems committing voter fraud act like the Republicans would never dare engage in such acts. Listen if there are real allegations of fraud in this election, they ought to be looked at but the whole thing reeks of bitterness over losing when it's said every single time a Republican loses a close race. Oh and Governor Walker's assine attack on Madison voters is stupid too. There's no such thing as a more "real" American. It's the same card wherever you go I suppose. If you're a urbanite and liberal voter, you're not a "real whatever."
| 101 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:10pm |
Beck's Potential Replacement And Guest Host Is 9-11 Truther Andrew Napolitano
Fox News announced today that Glenn Beck will end his daily Fox News program. According to the New York Daily News, "Beck will be on tour next week. His time slot will be filled by Judge Andrew Napolitano and Eric Bolling, and each could be potential long-term replacements."
While Beck's program is frequently marked by bizarre conspiracy theories and incendiary rhetoric, it's worth remembering that Napolitano -- the current host of Fox Business' Freedom Watch -- also subscribes to conspiracy theories, including the belief that the government is lying about the attacks on September 11 (aka "9-11 Truth"). Despite Beck's condemnation of 9-11 Truthers, Napolitano has regularly filled in for Beck.
| 103 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:28pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
republican talking points
Just logged in, and so far I've seen " union busting bill",,
anti-union bill
,,,
radical agenda.
Looks like it cuts both ways, no?
| 104 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:34pm |
re: #101 Killgore Trout
Beck's Potential Replacement And Guest Host Is 9-11 Truther Andrew Napolitano
Damn, there goes the betting pool.
| 105 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:34pm |
re: #86 Fozzie Bear
Yes, clearly, the DNC is a shadowy cabal, stuffing ballot boxes at midnight. They are the Illuminati. They are everywhere, and yet, they are nowhere. /
exactly....only even more insidious
| 106 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:48pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
All the republican talking points are coming out to play. it's like a grand reunion of stupid.
They're scared shitless and it's not hard to understand why. The Tea Party bandwagon has lost a wheel and is careening out of control. They thought that the momentum was gonna keep going into the primaries, if not the next election. Instead, Walker's stunts may have not only cost them Wisconsin, but also given Democrats a fighting chance in several other states.
| 107 |
engineer cat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:26:57pm |
re: #87 lostlakehiker
The Democrats, shall we just say, are very, very skilled in getting every issue decided their way. It isn't necessarily a felony to be better at winning, in the replay booth, calls that could go either way, than the other party. But it does mean that the Democrats effectively never lose a recount from an initial edge of hundreds.
this certainly explains why the supreme court refused the democratic party's request that all votes in florida be recounted in 2000
/
| 108 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:27:32pm |
re: #91 Fozzie Bear
All the republican talking points are coming out to play. it's like a grand reunion of stupid.
Bullshit... I haven't even started yet... no one has covered my talking points yet :)
| 109 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:28:00pm |
re: #97 Simply Sarah
I have to say, though, that I hope whomever wins will fairly apply the law and state/federal constitutions to judging any challenges to the law. I may think the law is abhorrent and completely politically motivated, but that is not, by itself, grounds for striking or otherwise restricting it through the courts.
Yes, but the way it was voted on was against WI law. Not even two hrs notice when the law is 24. Changed it to a non fiscal budget item, in order to avoid a quorum. There are many reasons to rule against this law, other than political.
| 110 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:28:18pm |
re: #101 Killgore Trout
Beck's Potential Replacement And Guest Host Is 9-11 Truther Andrew Napolitano
Mean the new boss, more loonier than the old one. Yep, I'm no Pete Townsend. Never claimed to be though.
| 111 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:28:46pm |
re: #101 Killgore Trout
Beck's Potential Replacement And Guest Host Is 9-11 Truther Andrew Napolitano
whoa!....so he's out? sounds that way, I'm a bit surprised, actually even interested
| 112 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:29:02pm |
re: #102 Obdicut
You called it!
Napolitano seems the likely choice. I don't think he'll last. The Paulians love him. They are loyal but a very small audience. I don't think he can keep the ratings up. They'll try Napolitano for a while but maybe they'll bring in somebody new after a few months.
| 113 |
webevintage Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:29:38pm |
re: #100 HappyWarrior
It's hilarious to me that the people who cry loudest about the Dems committing voter fraud act like the Republicans would never dare engage in such acts. Listen if there are real allegations of fraud in this election, they ought to be looked at but the whole thing reeks of bitterness over losing when it's said every single time a Republican loses a close race. Oh and Governor Walker's assine attack on Madison voters is stupid too. There's no such thing as a more "real" American. It's the same card wherever you go I suppose. If you're a urbanite and liberal voter, you're not a "real whatever."
I have to say that THIS is one of the things that pisses me off more then any other bullshit the Republicans get up to.
I'm a fucking American TEAGop assholes...a REAL American and I am a liberal and I come from a family of Union members who have always voted for Democrats and we are all real Americans.
| 114 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:29:47pm |
By the way for anyone interested I did five min of googling and found this
[Link: northfield.patch.com...]
And then this
[Link: politicsinminnesota.com...]
So much for the theory that no Democrat going into a recount with the lead in votes has ever lost the recount, wouldn't you agree Lost?
| 115 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:29:47pm |
re: #112 Killgore Trout
Napolitano seems the likely choice. I don't think he'll last. The Paulians love him. They are loyal but a very small audience. I don't think he can keep the ratings up. They'll try Napolitano for a while but maybe they'll bring in somebody new after a few months.
Yep, Napolitano is there as a place holder, not a permanent replacement. I'm sure they're already in the process of looking for Beck 2.0.
| 116 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:30:03pm |
re: #112 Killgore Trout
Napolitano seems the likely choice. I don't think he'll last. The Paulians love him. They are loyal but a very small audience. I don't think he can keep the ratings up. They'll try Napolitano for a while but maybe they'll bring in somebody new after a few months.
My step father will be crushed that Beck is leaving, but comforted that the Judge will carry on...sigh.
| 117 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:30:03pm |
re: #111 albusteve
Beck's audience has been bailing on him.
| 118 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:30:49pm |
re: #109 blueraven
Yes, but the way it was voted on was against WI law. Not even two hrs notice when the law is 24. Changed it to a non fiscal budget item, in order to avoid a quorum. There are many reasons to rule against this law, other than political.
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't. I don't know much about Wisconsin law, so I'm leaving any determinations to those that do (Too lazy to look up the rules in question and how they have been viewed in the past). Really, it's more that the idea of cheering for someone to win a judicial election in order to hopefully change the way a court will rule on a case makes me somewhat uneasy.
| 119 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:30:51pm |
re: #103 sattv4u2
republican talking points
Just logged in, and so far I've seen " union busting bill",,
,,,
Looks like it cuts both ways, no?
So to describe things factually makes them a "Democratic talking point"? I guess reality really does have a liberal bias!
| 120 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:31:15pm |
re: #113 webevintage
I have to say that THIS is one of the things that pisses me off more then any other bullshit the Republicans get up to.
I'm a fucking American TEAGop assholes...a REAL American and I am a liberal and I come from a family of Union members who have always voted for Democrats and we are all real Americans.
Shit pisses me off too. And it's the exact reason I lost a lot of respect for McCain was that his surrogates engaged in this garbage. His Virginia campaign manager said that Northern Virginia wasn't "REal Virginia" since we're a more Democratic and liberal leaning region. I resent the living hell out of that.
| 121 |
webevintage Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:31:32pm |
I'm sure the spin we will here from the TEAGop pundits in the next few days will be that the WI election means nothing and the fact that a Dem won Walker's old job means nothing.
Nothing to see here, move along folks....
| 122 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:31:49pm |
re: #111 albusteve
whoa!...so he's out? sounds that way, I'm a bit surprised, actually even interested
Yep... he's out... you'll never have to worry about him again... he'll be a passing memory in no time...
In the statement on Wednesday, Mr. Beck said he would be starting a “new phase” of a partnership with Roger Ailes, the chairman of Fox News. “I truly believe that America owes a lot to Roger Ailes and Fox News,” he said.
Mr. Ailes said in the statement, “Glenn Beck is a powerful communicator, a creative entrepreneur and a true success by anybody’s standards. I look forward to continuing to work with him.”
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
(Thanks goodness for small things)
| 123 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:31:52pm |
re: #118 Simply Sarah
Oh, I'm not saying there aren't. I don't know much about Wisconsin law, so I'm leaving any determinations to those that do (Too lazy to look up the rules in question and how they have been viewed in the past). Really, it's more that the idea of cheering for someone to win a judicial election in order to hopefully change the way a court will rule on a case makes me somewhat uneasy.
That was going to be true either way, unfortunately. But I agree with your overall point.
| 124 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:32:44pm |
re: #117 Killgore Trout
Beck's audience has been bailing on him.
yeah, and I'd like to hear Becks take on his 'change'
| 125 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:33:01pm |
re: #119 jamesfirecat
So to describe things factually makes them a "Democratic talking point"? I guess reality really does have a liberal bias!
I see
So EVERY Leftie/Progressive/Dem talking head just happen to use the exact same "reality"
Cool!!
| 126 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:33:37pm |
re: #124 albusteve
yeah, and I'd like to hear Becks take on his 'change'
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
Read the whole thing.
| 127 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:34:07pm |
re: #125 sattv4u2
I see
So EVERY Leftie/Progressive/Dem talking head just happen to use the exact same "reality"
Cool!!
Which democratic talking point being used here do you see as not true?
| 128 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:34:09pm |
re: #123 blueraven
That was going to be true either way, unfortunately. But I agree with your overall point.
It's a view based more in idealism than realism for me. Which isn't to say I don't have ideas on who I would and would not want to see on a court or that there aren't certain justices I'd like to see go. I just realize that it's generally for the best that they don't have to worry about getting booted for upholding the law as they see it.
| 129 |
recusancy Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:34:26pm |
re: #103 sattv4u2
republican talking points
Just logged in, and so far I've seen " union busting bill",,
,,,
Looks like it cuts both ways, no?
Was Walker's bill pro union? Do the Republicans currently have a moderate agenda?
| 130 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:34:33pm |
re: #89 Obdicut
You might want, at some point, to back up your assertions. At all.
In the case of your math above, you're begging the question by assuming that 1 percent are open to 'replay', whatever the fuck that means.
Can you please explain this statement?
Do you understand that in a recount, all votes are recounted? It kind of seems like you don't.
It seems, again as always, that you deliberately misunderstand what is written. All the votes, of course, are looked at again.
Computerized voting hardly leaves room for challenge. All one has is the totals from the machines. Hand-cast ballots may, in some cases, leave room for differences of opinion. Most do not.
So out of a big pool of votes, we have a smaller pool of votes that are cast in such a way that they MIGHT be questioned. Hand-marked ballots, write-in ballots, paper punched ballots.
Out of that small pool, a small fraction are in fact marked in such a way that people of good will might form different judgments about what the voter intended. It is these ballots that MIGHT end up being recorded as null when they were originally seen as valid, or as valid when they were originally seen as null, or as for A when they were originally deemed to be for B.
These few cases will go some to A, some to B, and the corrections will mostly cancel each other out.
That is why the general trend is that the recounted tally differs by a tiny amount from the original tally. Departures from this are statistical anomalies and as we all know from how things work with standardized testing, tax returns and so on, anomalies are red flags.
Now not all anomalies are instances of cheating. E.g. the movie Stand and Deliver. But, many of them are.
| 131 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:35:04pm |
re: #121 webevintage
I'm sure the spin we will here from the TEAGop pundits in the next few days will be that the WI election means nothing and the fact that a Dem won Walker's old job means nothing.
Nothing to see here, move along folks...
Yep, it's not a referendum, Republicans still won in elections! Yeah, the big elections that mattered went to the Democrats, but they still won some of them, so Walker is not toxic to his party's future prospects at all!
/
| 132 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:35:09pm |
re: #122 Walter L. Newton
Yep... he's out... you'll never have to worry about him again... he'll be a passing memory in no time...
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
(Thanks goodness for small things)
I was hoping for an epic crackup
| 133 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:35:46pm |
| 134 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:35:49pm |
re: #126 Walter L. Newton
[Link: mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com...]
Read the whole thing.
got to find my glasses first, my bad
| 135 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:36:32pm |
re: #127 jamesfirecat
Which democratic talking point being used here do you see as not true?
Well,, to start, the bill will NOT "bust a union"
There are many public servent unions that currently work without collective bargaining, but you knew that, right?
| 136 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:37:59pm |
re: #124 albusteve
yeah, and I'd like to hear Becks take on his 'change'
He and Fox are spinning this as "pursuing other opportunities" kind of thing but Beck was pushed out. He wouldn't voluntarily give up all the TV money. Even his radio ratings are falling and stations are dropping him. He's trying to launch his own network but since his audience is dwindling I don't think it's going to work out very well.
| 137 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:38:07pm |
re: #135 sattv4u2
Well,, to start, the bill will NOT "bust a union"
There are many public servent unions that currently work without collective bargaining, but you knew that, right?
Bullshit.
| 138 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:38:32pm |
| 139 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:38:40pm |
re: #95 jamesfirecat
How many recounts would we need to find that the democrat went form a leading to losing in order to make you admit that you're mistaken?
ONE such instance of a democrat losing a 400 vote margin would force that admission. Or two instances of a democrat losing a 100 vote margin.
OK?
I've not seen or heard of anything of the sort, but maybe I just haven't run across the right news story.
Show me one or two such instances and I'll recant. re: #99 Naso Tang
Huh? GWB?
The Democrats were BEHIND going in. They made up much, but not all, of a big deficit. We're talking cases where the Democrat lead by hundreds at the end of the initial tally, and then lost as a result of a recount.
| 140 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:39:16pm |
re: #135 sattv4u2
Well,, to start, the bill will NOT "bust a union"
There are many public servent unions that currently work without collective bargaining, but you knew that, right?
If you destroy collective bargaining what good is a union?
It doesn't destroy the union out right it just makes it useless so that the people who would have supported a union which could have helped them get better treatment at work will leave it on their own.
Its union busting Kavorkian style.
| 141 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:40:49pm |
re: #136 Killgore Trout
He and Fox are spinning this as "pursuing other opportunities" kind of thing but Beck was pushed out. He wouldn't voluntarily give up all the TV money. Even his radio ratings are falling and stations are dropping him. He's trying to launch his own network but since his audience is dwindling I don't think it's going to work out very well.
what a surprise....maybe some former sponsor or an anonymous exec will drop the hammer on him publicly...as in he was bad for business
| 142 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:40:51pm |
| 143 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:41:06pm |
re: #140 jamesfirecat
pppsssssttttt
gotta secret for ya
#137 was sarcasm ,,,, you may want to take back your upding!!!
shhhhhhhh
| 144 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:41:16pm |
| 146 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:41:58pm |
re: #140 jamesfirecat
If you destroy collective bargaining what good is a union?
It doesn't destroy the union out right it just makes it useless so that the people who would have supported a union which could have helped them get better treatment at work will leave it on their own.
Its union busting Kavorkian style.
what good are the unions now?....oh yeah, the 20hr work week thing
| 147 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:43:33pm |
somebody miscounted Frankens ballots until he won....something about 'lost boxes' of ballots in somebody's car trunk....LOL!
| 148 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:44:30pm |
| 149 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:44:44pm |
re: #143 sattv4u2
pppsssttt
gotta secret for ya
#137 was sarcasm ,,, you may want to take back your upding!!!
shhh
Intimately in touch with the debate at hand.
| 150 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:44:51pm |
I hope this goes down in history as the High Water Mark of the Tea Party movement: a struggle that will be remembered as the point where people finally woke up and realized where these idjits are leading us.
| 151 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:45:49pm |
re: #139 lostlakehiker
ONE such instance of a democrat losing a 400 vote margin would force that admission. Or two instances of a democrat losing a 100 vote margin.
OK?
I've not seen or heard of anything of the sort, but maybe I just haven't run across the right news story.
Show me one or two such instances and I'll recant. re: #99 Naso Tang
The Democrats were BEHIND going in. They made up much, but not all, of a big deficit. We're talking cases where the Democrat lead by hundreds at the end of the initial tally, and then lost as a result of a recount.
Here you go
[Link: www.wral.com...]
Rep. Phil Baddour, the House majority leader since 1999, lost to Republican Louis Pate after a hand recount in Wayne County completed Friday afternoon gave Pate a 174-vote victory, a county elections official said.
Along with the GOP defeat of Rep. Alice Underhill, D-Craven, in another recount completed Friday, Republicans will have a 61-59 lead over Democrats in the chamber starting in January.
Baddour appeared to have won by nearly 900 votes after Election Day, but Pate took the lead a few days later when straight-ticket ballots not counted by voting machines were tallied.
You retraction?
| 152 |
BishopX Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:46:07pm |
re: #135 sattv4u2
Any bill that requires that union re-certify every year is a union busting bill. As far as a can recall the WI bill does this. If that part got stripped out of the final version I'll take back my downding.
| 153 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:46:39pm |
re: #69 Stanley Sea
Sanity break. Er...
FrumForum FrumForum
Boehner Cries in Budget Meeting: ABC News reports: He did it again. John Boehner was driven to tears again... [Link: bit.ly...] #tcot
Mmmm. Boehner tears would be delicious except I don't have a desire to let anything emanating from a Boehner enter my mouth.
| 154 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:47:59pm |
re: #151 jamesfirecat
Here you go
[Link: www.wral.com...]
Rep. Phil Baddour, the House majority leader since 1999, lost to Republican Louis Pate after a hand recount in Wayne County completed Friday afternoon gave Pate a 174-vote victory, a county elections official said.
Along with the GOP defeat of Rep. Alice Underhill, D-Craven, in another recount completed Friday, Republicans will have a 61-59 lead over Democrats in the chamber starting in January.
Baddour appeared to have won by nearly 900 votes after Election Day, but Pate took the lead a few days later when straight-ticket ballots not counted by voting machines were tallied.
You retraction?
he was just a ringer...gotta make it look good here and there
| 155 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:49:06pm |
re: #130 lostlakehiker
Why are you only focusing on problems with the actual ballots, and not possible other parts of the procedure? For example, a malfunctioning Scantron machine that's discarding a higher percentage of ballots than it should?
It is absolutely true that, in general, most will just have equal numbers of swaps between one candidate and the other.
That is indeed the general trend. It is not, at all in any way, shape, or form, a statement that it can't swing by the hundreds. It means that it, even if it were simply problematic hand ballots, that it was improbable. It doesn't mean that there aren't other possible ways for a recount to find missing votes-- including, yes, actual missing ballot boxes, or a glitch in the database.
And even if you constrain it to the hand-counted ballots, you were also wrong about the percentage portion. When you constrain it as small as 100 votes vs ten million, then yes, the ten million votes will have much higher fidelity. However, the relationship is not linear. By constraining it to 100, you exaggerate the effect of small races. Once you extrapolate out to 1,000 or 10,000 votes, this is clear.
I'm glad that you're at least now acknowledging that not all anomalies are instances of cheating. That's a big first step for you.
I'm instrigued that you think that Democrats are always favored in recount situations. Can you explain this, in light of that belief?
[Link: articles.nydailynews.com...]
Republicans were poised to regain control of the state Senate after a judge certified a recount Saturday that narrowly handed a Long Island seat to a GOP candidate.
Jack Martins defeated Democratic Sen. Craig Johnson for Nassau County's 7th Senate District by only 451 votes of the tens of thousands of ballots cast in the Nov. 2 race.
Justice Ira Warshawsky certified the partial recount in a rare weekend court session, dealing Democrats a harsh blow by denying their appeal for a full recount by hand.
| 156 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:50:56pm |
re: #154 albusteve
he was just a ringer...gotta make it look good here and there
"ONE such instance of a democrat losing a 400 vote margin would force that admission. Or two instances of a democrat losing a 100 vote margin."
"Baddour appeared to have won by nearly 900 votes after Election Day, but Pate took the lead a few days later when straight-ticket ballots not counted by voting machines were tallied."
| 157 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:51:04pm |
re: #154 albusteve
he was just a ringer...gotta make it look good here and there
"In the fifth, your ass goes down."
/
| 158 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:52:34pm |
re: #156 jamesfirecat
"ONE such instance of a democrat losing a 400 vote margin would force that admission. Or two instances of a democrat losing a 100 vote margin."
"Baddour appeared to have won by nearly 900 votes after Election Day, but Pate took the lead a few days later when straight-ticket ballots not counted by voting machines were tallied."
Obviously, the DNC is so craven and evil they steal elections from themselves.
| 159 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:52:59pm |
re: #156 jamesfirecat
"ONE such instance of a democrat losing a 400 vote margin would force that admission. Or two instances of a democrat losing a 100 vote margin."
"Baddour appeared to have won by nearly 900 votes after Election Day, but Pate took the lead a few days later when straight-ticket ballots not counted by voting machines were tallied."
always means nearly always sometimes...but not here, as in democrats nearly always cheat at the polls
| 160 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:53:32pm |
I am finding this whole thing to be absolutely hilarious. The predictability of it all is astounding. It's like it's literally from some kind of wingnut script.
| 161 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:53:46pm |
re: #158 Fozzie Bear
Obviously, the DNC is so craven and evil they steal elections from themselves.
yup, like a feeding frenzy where your buddy just became your dinner
| 162 |
simoom Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:54:47pm |
CBO preliminary report on Rep. Paul Ryan's 2012 budget proposal:
[Link: www.cbo.gov...]
Under the proposal, most elderly people would pay more for their health care than they would pay under the current Medicare system. For a typical 65-year-old with average health spending enrolled in a plan with benefits similar to those currently provided by Medicare, CBO estimated the beneficiary’s spending on premiums and out-of-pocket expenditures as a share of a benchmark: what total health care spending would be if a private insurer covered the beneficiary. By 2030, the beneficiary’s spending would be 68 percent of that benchmark under the proposal, 25 percent under the extended-baseline scenario, and 30 percent under the alternative fiscal scenario.
And:
Federal payments for Medicaid under the proposal would be substantially smaller than currently projected amounts. States would have additional flexibility to design and manage their Medicaid programs, and they might achieve greater efficiencies in the delivery of care than under current law. Even with additional flexibility, however, the large projected reduction in payments would probably require states to decrease payments to Medicaid providers, reduce eligibility for Medicaid, provide less extensive coverage to beneficiaries, or pay more themselves than would be the case under current law.
Here's a Miami Herald writeup on the report:
[Link: www.miamiherald.com...]
Seniors and people with disabilities would pay much more for Medicare under a new plan by Republicans in the House of Representatives that's aimed at curbing the nation's growing budget deficit, a Congressional Budget Office analysis shows.For example, by 2030, typical 65-year-olds would be required to pay 68 percent of the cost of their coverage, which includes premiums, deductibles and other out-of-pocket costs, according to the CBO. They'd pay 25 percent under current law, the CBO said.
The GOP budget proposal also would raise the eligibility age for the popular program and repeal big chunks of the health care overhaul law that Congress approved last year.
| 163 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:54:57pm |
re: #160 Fozzie Bear
I am finding this whole thing to be absolutely hilarious. The predictability of it all is astounding. It's like it's literally from some kind of wingnut script.
The Protocols of the Elders of the RNC.
| 164 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:55:00pm |
re: #160 Fozzie Bear
I am finding this whole thing to be absolutely hilarious. The predictability of it all is astounding. It's like it's literally from some kind of wingnut script.
If(Republic Votes> Democrat Votes)
{
$Outcome= "Mandate!"
}
else
{
$Outcome = "Voter Fraud!"
}
| 165 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:55:09pm |
| 166 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:55:13pm |
re: #149 Walter L. Newton
Intimately in touch with the debate at hand.
It's like they've never met you!
| 167 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:55:24pm |
| 168 |
BishopX Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:55:28pm |
re: #158 Fozzie Bear
Obviously, the DNC is so craven and evil they steal elections from themselves.
Given the DNC's general level of competence, I wouldn't be too surprised. They've never run across a method of shooting ones self in the the foot that they haven't felt an immediate need to try.
| 169 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:56:06pm |
re: #165 Killgore Trout
Here they go...
Conservative Pundit Sees Vote Fraud In Wisconsin Supreme Court Race (VIDEO)
proof right there that massive fraud is perped every election
| 171 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:57:37pm |
re: #164 jamesfirecat
If(Republic Votes> Democrat Votes)
{
$Outcome= "Mandate!"
}
else
{
$Outcome = "Voter Fraud!"
}
what is this mess, some sort of code for donks only?
| 172 |
allegro Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:58:00pm |
| 173 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:58:06pm |
| 174 |
mr.fusion Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:58:34pm |
re: #9 Rightwingconspirator
That is a statistical tie. On the order of 1/50th of the expected error margin in an election as I see it. (plus or minus 2%) Heck even recounts can hardly get to the accuracy an election this close reliably. May as well flip a coin.
Recalls almost always benefit the dems.....I expect her lead to grow throughout the process
| 175 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:59:05pm |
| 176 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:59:06pm |
re: #174 mr.fusion
Recalls almost always benefit the dems...I expect her lead to grow throughout the process
Proof?
(I feel like a broken record)
| 177 |
BishopX Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:59:07pm |
re: #170 Obdicut
What do you mean no proof? There were clear pictures of women and minorities waiting in line to cast votes. Everyone knows that's unconstitutional.
//
| 179 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 1:59:44pm |
re: #165 Killgore Trout
Here they go...
Conservative Pundit Sees Vote Fraud In Wisconsin Supreme Court Race (VIDEO)
Should have know is was John Fund...what a loser!
| 180 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:00:09pm |
I called this election yesterday for JoAnne Kloppenburg on lGF. I don't know why the conservatives are so surprised.
| 181 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:00:15pm |
| 182 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:00:42pm |
re: #176 Fozzie Bear
Proof?
(I feel like a broken record)
since when does an expectation require proof?...prove to me you'll still be a male tomorrow morning when you wake up
| 183 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:00:53pm |
re: #180 Walter L. Newton
I called this election yesterday for JoAnne Kloppenburg on lGF. I don't know why the conservatives are so surprised.
Because they have their heads stuck in the sand. Or in other places.
| 184 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:01:19pm |
re: #182 albusteve
since when does an expectation require proof?...prove to me you'll still be a male tomorrow morning when you wake up
I'll be over tomorrow big boy, and you'll never doubt it again. /
| 185 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:01:40pm |
re: #182 albusteve
since when does an expectation require proof?...prove to me you'll still be a male tomorrow morning when you wake up
It can fall off while I'm asleep!?!?!
DAMN!
| 186 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:01:41pm |
re: #181 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
They turned me into a Newt!
Do you have a new wife picked out yet?
| 187 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:02:08pm |
re: #184 Fozzie Bear
I'll be over tomorrow big boy, and you'll never doubt it again. /
You should at least buy him dinner 1st
| 188 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:02:24pm |
| 189 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:02:53pm |
re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Do you have a new wife picked out yet?
Yeah, but God has forgiven me, so why can't you?
/
| 190 |
Fozzie Bear Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:03:13pm |
re: #188 albusteve
ouch?
I'll be gentle.
Ok, on that note, time to go home and eat dinner. Obviously, i'm getting a wee bit punchy.
| 191 |
allegro Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:03:26pm |
re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Do you have a new wife picked out yet?
I think the current wife has to be too sick to put out when he's overcome with the passion of patriotism... or something.
| 192 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:03:43pm |
There are Higher Truths: the Truth that America is God's Own Nation because it abides by His laws and rules, and these frown on liberals, unions, government programs and taxes.
This election outcome could not have been His Divine Will: it must have been the work of Satan.
Or Democrats.
/
| 193 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:03:45pm |
re: #189 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, but God has forgiven me, so why can't you?
/
*SLAP*
Its cool, God forgave me already.
| 194 |
Kragar Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:04:27pm |
re: #191 allegro
I think the current wife has to be too sick to put out when he's overcome with the passion of patriotism... or something.
I think there is something to do with cars as well.
| 195 |
Renaissance_Man Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:04:33pm |
re: #183 thedopefishlives
Because they have their heads stuck in the sand. Or in other places.
I don't think they're surprised that a Democrat one. I think they're surprised that everyone doesn't already know the totally obvious fact that Democrats always cheat in elections and commit massive voter fraud, and that's the only way they can win anything since it's so obvious that they're traitors and liberals and the people would never vote for them.
| 196 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:04:46pm |
re: #193 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
*SLAP*
Its cool, God forgave me already.
*rubbing his cheek* Forgiveness is painful.
| 197 |
allegro Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:06:21pm |
re: #195 Renaissance_Man
I think they're surprised that everyone doesn't already know the totally obvious fact that Democrats always cheat in elections and commit massive voter fraud, and that's the only way they can win anything since it's so obvious that they're traitors and liberals and the people would never vote for them.
Amen. Also.
| 198 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:06:21pm |
"You are a man who has enough courage to annul a wrong and mistaken action," Gadhafi wrote in a rambling, three-page letter to Obama obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday. "I am sure that you are able to shoulder the responsibility for that."
Barak's new pen pal
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 199 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:06:24pm |
re: #195 Renaissance_Man
I don't think they're surprised that a Democrat one. I think they're surprised that everyone doesn't already know the totally obvious fact that Democrats always cheat in elections and commit massive voter fraud, and that's the only way they can win anything since it's so obvious that they're traitors and liberals and the people would never vote for them.
I don't know. I think they felt they were bulletproof and that they would ride the groundswell of grassroots support to a landslide victory. I'm pretty sure being on the losing side was a bit of a shock... At which point, they resorted to their standard talking points in an effort to camouflage their failure.
| 200 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:07:24pm |
re: #195 Renaissance_Man
I don't think they're surprised that a Democrat one. I think they're surprised that everyone doesn't already know the totally obvious fact that Democrats always cheat in elections and commit massive voter fraud, and that's the only way they can win anything since it's so obvious that they're traitors and liberals and the people would never vote for them.
you getting warmer
| 201 |
Simply Sarah Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:08:37pm |
re: #198 albusteve
"You are a man who has enough courage to annul a wrong and mistaken action," Gadhafi wrote in a rambling, three-page letter to Obama obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday. "I am sure that you are able to shoulder the responsibility for that."
Barak's new pen pal
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Sounds like he's really starting to feel the heat.
| 202 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:08:40pm |
re: #198 albusteve
"You are a man who has enough courage to annul a wrong and mistaken action," Gadhafi wrote in a rambling, three-page letter to Obama obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday. "I am sure that you are able to shoulder the responsibility for that."
Barak's new pen pal
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Love,
Quacky!
| 203 |
Ben G. Hazi Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:09:09pm |
re: #153 prononymous
Mmmm. Boehner tears would be delicious except I don't have a desire to let anything emanating from a Boehner enter my mouth.
*rimshot*
| 204 |
blueraven Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:09:36pm |
Looks like the Heritage foundation has removed the ridiculous 2.8% unemployment rate from the study that heralded Paul Ryan's budget proposal.
[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
| 205 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:11:02pm |
OT
I've said it before and I'll say it again
Augusta National Golf course is breathtaking!!
Have been there once, and right now I'm monitoring HD video coming from the production truck onsite for The Masters
| 206 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:11:08pm |
re: #201 Simply Sarah
Sounds like he's really starting to feel the heat.
just like those Lockerbie passengers did I bet
| 207 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:11:21pm |
| 208 |
Stanghazi Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:20:00pm |
re: #204 blueraven
Looks like the Heritage foundation has removed the ridiculous 2.8% unemployment rate from the study that heralded Paul Ryan's budget proposal.
[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
Saw where Krugman caught that! Frauds!
| 209 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:24:25pm |
re: #208 Stanley Sea
Saw where Krugman caught that! Frauds!
This is Heritage we're talkin' about. According to them, the Bush Tax Cuts were supposed to lead to unequaled economic prosperity, record low unemployment rates, pay off the national debt by decade's end, and whiten your teeth too.
Funny how they never factored in things like a housing bubble...
| 210 |
albusteve Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:27:15pm |
re: #209 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
This is Heritage we're talkin' about. According to them, the Bush Tax Cuts were supposed to lead to unequaled economic prosperity, record low unemployment rates, pay off the national debt by decade's end, and whiten your teeth too.
Funny how they never factored in things like a housing bubble...
especially since the downfall was predicted by Bush, McCain and so many others you'd almost think the result was intentional
| 211 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:35:42pm |
re: #20 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So she goes from an outside chance to a squeaker win in the course of two months. Yeah, that's not indicative of voter disapproval at all. *rolls eyes*
Hot Air is already framing it as a shocking setback to the Dems, since...uh...the Dems anger at Governor Walker meant that they should have pulled a twenty point upset or something.
You can't make this shit up.
| 212 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:37:07pm |
re: #209 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
This is Heritage we're talkin' about. According to them, the Bush Tax Cuts were supposed to lead to unequaled economic prosperity, record low unemployment rates, pay off the national debt by decade's end, and whiten your teeth too.
Funny how they never factored in things like
a housing bubblea twenty year failure of supply side economics to actually provide prosperity to the middle class...
Mildly enhanced for your viewing pleasure.
| 213 |
Targetpractice Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:37:43pm |
re: #211 celticdragon
Hot Air is already framing it as a shocking setback to the Dems, since...uh...the Dems anger at Governor Walker meant that they should have pulled a twenty point upset or something.
You can't make this shit up.
So she goes from an outside chance to a slim victory...and it's still a loss for the Dems.
Denial is a hell of a drug.
| 214 |
celticdragon Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:46:51pm |
re: #52 Fozzie Bear
Note that Fox didn't even wait an hour after the tally came in.
This story was pre-written for this occasion.
And tested before a live wingnut audience for quality control and effective marketing.
| 215 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:57:52pm |
re: #87 lostlakehiker
The Democrats, shall we just say, are very, very skilled in getting every issue decided their way. It isn't necessarily a felony to be better at winning, in the replay booth, calls that could go either way, than the other party. But it does mean that the Democrats effectively never lose a recount from an initial edge of hundreds.
First prove me wrong. THEN downding it.
Show me ONE election since 1960, that's half a century, that has recounted from the Democrats winning by hundreds of votes, to losing.
| 216 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 3:04:13pm |
re: #156 jamesfirecat
"ONE such instance of a democrat losing a 400 vote margin would force that admission. Or two instances of a democrat losing a 100 vote margin."
"Baddour appeared to have won by nearly 900 votes after Election Day, but Pate took the lead a few days later when straight-ticket ballots not counted by voting machines were tallied."
Try again. According to the article, first they tallied the machine votes. That was on election day. Next, they tallied the straight-ticket votes. That had to be done by hand. THEN, they held a recount. According to the article,
The hand recount showed Pate with 8,508 votes, while Baddour had 8,334 votes. Each candidate gained a half-dozen votes compared to the previous tally.
That vindicates my position. There was NO SWING WHATSOEVER during the recount. Each candidate gained a mere SIX, and those canceled.
| 217 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Apr 6, 2011 3:06:32pm |
re: #21 abbyadams
Hello? It's like that in most of the country, cities vote one way, rural another. That sounds a little like "real American" talk to me, which is really very offensive in my book.
The republicans are riding a wave of high rhetoric at this point. 1 in 7 farmers in Wisconsin are relying on BadgerCare for their health care needs in Wisconsin. Well Scott Walker and the republican majorities have voted to gut BadgerCare. Wait until the rural voters he's relying on to push his bullshit start to feel the cuts.
I have a feeling any support he enjoys now will vanish very quickly.
| 218 |
Obdicut Wed, Apr 6, 2011 3:57:33pm |
re: #216 lostlakehiker
Try reading, jackass.
[Link: www.digtriad.com...]
Hulse said voting observers from both parties alerted elections officials after noticing that the number of votes in the U.S. Senate race was lower than the total number of ballots cast.
Elections officials determined that voting machines hadn't counted straight-party ballots, Hulse said. The machines were reprogrammed and the machines counted the ballots again, he said.
The retabulated results show Pate, the mayor of Mount Olive, with 8,503 votes, or 50.49 percent, and Baddour with 8,339 votes, or 49.51 percent. Before Friday, Baddour had 6,058 votes compared to Pate with 5,162 votes.
In other words, exactly the kind of systemic error you're ignoring in order to make your argument.
| 219 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 3:58:01pm |
re: #216 lostlakehiker
Try again. According to the article, first they tallied the machine votes. That was on election day. Next, they tallied the straight-ticket votes. That had to be done by hand. THEN, they held a recount. According to the article,
That vindicates my position. There was NO SWING WHATSOEVER during the recount. Each candidate gained a mere SIX, and those canceled.
You know what, you win on this one, I can't seem to find a republican coming from behind on a recount.
HOWEVER!
Correlation does not equal causation for example...
[Link: www.alternet.org...]
"The largest source of error is going to be human error -- marks that the machine cannot be expected to recognize. The voter crosses out one oval and fills in another. The machine sees an overvote, but the hand canvass counts the vote correctly. When the voter circles the candidate, or uses a check mark, or doesn't fill in the entire oval, the machine sees no vote at all, but again, the hand canvass registers the vote.
Since 2000, seven out of seven peer-reviewed academic studies confirm that Democrats tend to make more mistakes than Republicans. The populations that are, in academic jargon, "vulnerable to error" are low-income, low-educated and minority, all of which disproportionately vote Democratic."
So I'm afraid that you're seeing a grand conspiracy where their is only human stupidity.
| 220 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Apr 6, 2011 4:20:25pm |
re: #218 Obdicut
Try reading, jackass.
[Link: www.digtriad.com...]
In other words, exactly the kind of systemic error you're ignoring in order to make your argument.
re: #219 jamesfirecat
You know what, you win on this one, I can't seem to find a republican coming from behind on a recount.
HOWEVER!
Correlation does not equal causation for example...
[Link: www.alternet.org...]
"The largest source of error is going to be human error -- marks that the machine cannot be expected to recognize. The voter crosses out one oval and fills in another. The machine sees an overvote, but the hand canvass counts the vote correctly. When the voter circles the candidate, or uses a check mark, or doesn't fill in the entire oval, the machine sees no vote at all, but again, the hand canvass registers the vote.
Since 2000, seven out of seven peer-reviewed academic studies confirm that Democrats tend to make more mistakes than Republicans. The populations that are, in academic jargon, "vulnerable to error" are low-income, low-educated and minority, all of which disproportionately vote Democratic."
So I'm afraid that you're seeing a grand conspiracy where their is only human stupidity.
I don't see a grand conspiracy. I see a spirit of fighting for every possible advantage, of contesting vigorously even the thinnest of cases.
And I realize that anomaly, of itself, does not prove cheating. You, unlike some in this forum, argue in good faith. You've even got a case.
| 221 |
MinisterO Wed, Apr 6, 2011 4:39:09pm |
re: #41 lostlakehiker
You're way wrong about the expected error margin. In an election of 1400000 votes, assuming all voters tossed a coin, the standard deviation will be about 530.
Is this correct? Anyone?
| 222 |
hugh59 Wed, Apr 6, 2011 5:40:34pm |
re: #29 lostlakehiker
Really? Tell that to Norm Coleman. Are you saying that Al Franken became a senator because of fraud?
What I dislike about Kloppenburg was her refusal to denounce the disgraceful ads run by the GWC claiming that he mishandled a child molestation case 30 years ago. I am from Ohio and when an Ohio politician ran a commercial like that back in 1994, just about every news outlet in the state condemned him. Kloppenburg said that she could not control what the GWC did (true) and that she would not condemn the ad. She benefited from someone else's dishonorable conduct and that makes her dishonorable.
| 223 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 6, 2011 5:47:44pm |
re: #216 lostlakehiker
Try again. According to the article, first they tallied the machine votes. That was on election day. Next, they tallied the straight-ticket votes. That had to be done by hand. THEN, they held a recount. According to the article,
That vindicates my position. There was NO SWING WHATSOEVER during the recount. Each candidate gained a mere SIX, and those canceled.
Still I hope the recount shows Prosser as winning. However, said recount must be done honestly, that above all.
| 224 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 5:49:18pm |
re: #223 Dark_Falcon
Still I hope the recount shows Prosser as winning. However, said recount must be done honestly, that above all.
Don't count on it Dark Recounts tend to favor Liberals because we're idiots.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
No really...
| 225 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Apr 6, 2011 5:51:33pm |
re: #224 jamesfirecat
Don't count on it Dark Recounts tend to favor Liberals because we're idiots.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
No really...
We'll see. It's less than 100 votes, and such recounts can go either way. Let's wait and see.
| 226 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Apr 6, 2011 5:54:17pm |
re: #225 Dark_Falcon
We'll see. It's less than 100 votes, and such recounts can go either way. Let's wait and see.
Umm, where do you get your numbers Dark?
JoAnne Kloppenburg - 740,090
David Prosser - 739,886
740,090
-739,886=204 votes.
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