1 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:16:38pm

Works for me. I look good in a dark blue uniform. Yum, yum, Rebels, come get you some! [cocks Henry Rifle]

/kidding about the rifle.

2 ProBosniaLiberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:19:05pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

Same here. Family comes from Pennsylvania and Michigan, so I’m dyed blue (in both ways).

3 Gus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:20:09pm

One would have to have their head up their ass not to see the correlation of these events with the presidency of Obama. Then again, there’s a lot of shitheads walking around these days.

4 Four More Tears  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:20:34pm

Aaand yet the Mau Mau Revolt was a bad thing. I just don’t get some people.

5 jaunte  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:21:38pm

‘North Carolina Dollars.’
Good luck with that…

6 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:25:59pm

re: #4 JasonA

Aaand yet the Mau Mau Revolt was a bad thing. I just don’t get some people.

The Mau Mau revolt was a bad thing, just not for the reasons some think. It wasn’t bad because it was black men revolting against white men, but because the Mau Mau’s were brutal and tyrannous in their own right. They were vicious and destructive and their suppression was a good thing, on the whole.

7 Gus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:26:52pm

re: #3 Gus 802

One would have to have their head up their ass not to see the correlation of these events with the presidency of Obama. Then again, there’s a lot of shitheads walking around these days.

Excellent. Mellisa Harris-Perry essentially said the same thing and used the word “correlate”.

8 Political Atheist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:31:34pm

Melissa Harris-Perry is one sharp lady. Wow.

9 Four More Tears  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:32:07pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

I kinda shy away from judging people overthrowing their European overlords. They can’t all be Ghandi, you know?

10 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:35:41pm

re: #9 JasonA

I kinda shy away from judging people overthrowing their European overlords. They can’t all be Ghandi, you know?

I do judge, but I admit to a pro-British bias. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that. The issue gets too close to race for my peace of mind.

11 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:36:04pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

The Mau Mau revolt was a bad thing, just not for the reasons some think. It wasn’t bad because it was black men revolting against white men, but because the Mau Mau’s were brutal and tyrannous in their own right. They were vicious and destructive and their suppression was a good thing, on the whole.

Settler groups, displeased with the government’s response to the increasing Mau Mau threat created their own units to combat the Mau Mau. One settler with the Kenya Police Reserve’s Special Branch described an interrogation of a Mau Mau, suspected of murder, which he assisted: “By the time I cut his balls off he had no ears, and his eyeball, the right one, I think, was hanging out of its socket. Too bad, he died before we got much out of him.”

12 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:40:06pm

if the brave Union soldier boys hadn’t saved the union, we would not have been there to help stop Hitler. Only 80 years separate the two events.

Everything you do counts for good or evil, in ways that you cannot possibly imagine.

13 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:40:21pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

I do judge, but I admit to a pro-British bias. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that. The issue gets too close to race for my peace of mind.

You have an authoritarian bias, and the British were the authorities. It’s pretty simplistic but whatever floats your boat.

14 Four More Tears  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:41:11pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

I do judge, but I admit to a pro-British bias. And that’s all I’ve got to say about that. The issue gets too close to race for my peace of mind.

Pretty sure you were against the British in at least one case…

15 Ojoe  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:43:52pm

Good night all.

16 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:44:43pm

re: #14 JasonA

Pretty sure you were against the British in at least one case…

In the case of the American Revolution, yes, but it has to be said that is retrospective. Had I been alive at the time, I would have been a Loyalist. I’m not a fan of revolts and sudden change, preferring order and stability. I do make exceptions, but I also try not to be dishonest with myself. So I’m glad the American Revolution succeeded, but I would not have been on the Patriot side of it.

17 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:44:54pm

Extremely appropriate:

18 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:48:07pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

Honesty ding.

19 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:49:14pm

re: #17 negativ

Extremely appropriate:

[Video]

Also appropriate:

20 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:49:40pm

re: #18 goddamnedfrank

Honesty ding.

Reciprocated and appreciated.

21 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:49:57pm

we really need to sit down and talk this secession thing over.

22 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:50:53pm

Nowadays, Calhoun would be given a nightly hour long show on Fox.

23 freetoken  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:53:44pm

re: #21 SpaceJesus

we really need to sit down and talk this secession thing over.

We could always sit around a campfire and sing songs…

24 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:56:10pm

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nowadays, Calhoun would be given a nightly hour long show on Fox.

When he in fact did deserve what Andrew Jackson threatened him with, to be hanged “as high as Haman” (from the Book of Esther). On his deathbed, Andrew Jackson admitted to only two regrets, one of which was that he had not carried that threat out (the other was that he had never owned a racehorse that could defeat a famous racer named “Haynie’s Maria”).

25 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 8:57:00pm

re: #23 freetoken

We could always sit around a campfire and sing songs…

[Video]

I got one we could sing.

Bring the good ol’ Bugle boys! We’ll sing another song,
Sing it with a spirit that will start the world along,
Sing it like we used to sing it fifty thousand strong,
While we were marching through Georgia.

26 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:00:01pm

re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I got one we could sing.

Bring the good ol’ Bugle boys! We’ll sing another song,
Sing it with a spirit that will start the world along,
Sing it like we used to sing it fifty thousand strong,
While we were marching through Georgia.

Hurrah! Hurrah!
We bring the Jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah!
The Flag that makes your free!
So we sang the chorus,
From Atlanta to sea,
While we were marching through Georgia!

27 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:00:20pm

don’t forget the japanese version of it

28 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:01:07pm

re: #27 SpaceJesus

im sorry for this

29 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:03:02pm

re: #27 SpaceJesus

I’ll leave this to the anime fans in the group.

[backs away slowly]

30 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:04:08pm

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

i actually hate anime. how i know about this, i don’t even remember, but i am ashamed any way.

31 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:09:50pm

I see a parallel between then and now.

In the Civil War, the wealthy slave owners were able to convince the average Southerner that abolition was attacking their way of life. Even though the majority didn’t own slaves, the idea of being able to some day work your way up to owning a large plantation was a strong influence.

Today, the various Plutocrats are convincing the Tea Baggers that the Fed are trying to keep them down and attacking their dreams as well, even though today’s political and economic realities tell a very different story.

32 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:11:51pm

re: #30 SpaceJesus

i actually hate anime. how i know about this, i don’t even remember, but i am ashamed any way.

As ashamed as I am about this?

33 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:12:07pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

also they stoke the racial fears with hispanics instead of free blacks

34 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:13:26pm

re: #33 SpaceJesus

also they stoke the racial fears with hispanics instead of free blacks

Oh, I’m pretty sure a lot of them are still worked up about blacks as well.

35 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:14:41pm

re: #33 SpaceJesus

also they stoke the racial fears with hispanics instead of free blacks

Except when it comes to the POTUS. Then they’re all about the racist, xenophobic fears.

Otherwise, yeah. It’s all about the Mexicans with their anchor babies takin’ yer jobz, don’tcha know. =P

36 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:16:05pm

re: #35 Lidane

and the muslims, don’t forget them


waiting for some idiot revisionist to claim lincoln instituted shariah while in office. im sure it will happen.

37 freetoken  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:17:58pm

re: #35 Lidane

Not just any anchor babies, but TERRORIST ANCHOR BABIES!!

38 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:21:55pm

re: #36 SpaceJesus

and the muslims, don’t forget them

waiting for some idiot revisionist to claim lincoln instituted shariah while in office. im sure it will happen.

I reiterate: Those Republicans who excoriate Abraham Lincoln are the RINOs, not people like Chris Christie and Mark Kirk.

39 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:22:22pm

re: #36 SpaceJesus

and the muslims, don’t forget them

Oh, they’re coming in illegally from Mexico, you know. Iran has their seekrit agents with Farsi tattoos going through Venezuela and then passing themselves off as illegal immigrants.

waiting for some idiot revisionist to claim lincoln instituted shariah while in office. im sure it will happen.

Why not? He’s already a genocidal tyrant, and according to the Neo-Confederate idiots in that Freeper thread, he was a Marxist too. Saying he instituted sharia law wouldn’t be a stretch for those morons.

40 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:22:43pm

I blame SpaceJesus for making me remember this;

41 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:23:34pm

As long as Confederate fashions don’t come back in fashion.

I don’t need a hoop skirt, and I don’t need to make some other woman work to pay for it.

42 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:25:29pm

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nowadays, Calhoun would be given a nightly hour long show on Fox.

Even Andrew Jackson’s crazy ass threatened to kill him. He probably should have. It’s rumored that on his death bed Jackson said his greatest regret was that he didn’t kill certain people. I think Calhoun was one of them.

43 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:26:55pm

re: #22 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nowadays, Calhoun would be given a nightly hour long show on Fox.

Better an hour on fox than a seat in Congress.

44 jamesfirecat  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:28:04pm

re: #42 moderatelyradicalliberal

Even Andrew Jackson’s crazy ass threatened to kill him. He probably should have. It’s rumored that on his death bed Jackson said his greatest regret was that he didn’t kill certain people. I think Calhoun was one of them.

“I have only two regrets: I didn’t shoot Henry Clay, and I didn’t hang John C. Calhoun.”

45 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:28:54pm

re: #44 jamesfirecat

“I have only two regrets: I didn’t shoot Henry Clay, and I didn’t hang John C. Calhoun.”

I think I might have regretted screwing over the American Indians, but I suppose if he had thought about that, he wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

46 Professor Chaos  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:29:46pm

The Confederacy….secessionists….Trump…

47 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:32:38pm

re: #46 Girth

The Confederacy…secessionists…Trump…

[Video]

The Doom Song

48 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:32:59pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I see a parallel between then and now.

In the Civil War, the wealthy slave owners were able to convince the average Southerner that abolition was attacking their way of life. Even though the majority didn’t own slaves, the idea of being able to some day work your way up to owning a large plantation was a strong influence.

Today, the various Plutocrats are convincing the Tea Baggers that the Fed are trying to keep them down and attacking their dreams as well, even though today’s political and economic realities tell a very different story.

THIS. THIS. THIS. A thousand times.

49 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:33:30pm

As Maddow points out, the attempted revival of nullification is spreading like wildfire. This is what President Andrew Jackson had to say about the nullifiers in the South Carolina legislature:

“Tell them that they can talk and write resolutions and print threats to their hearts’ content. But if one drop of blood is shed there in opposition to the laws of the United States, I will hang the first man of them I can get my hands on to the first tree I can find.”

50 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:34:36pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Today, the various Plutocrats are convincing the Tea Baggers that the Fed are trying to keep them down and attacking their dreams as well, even though today’s political and economic realities tell a very different story.

51 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:36:20pm

re: #50 Lidane

52 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:37:44pm

re: #45 EmmmieG

I think I might have regretted screwing over the American Indians, but I suppose if he had thought about that, he wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

He didn’t. He thought that the Indians had to go, as it was the only way to prevent continuous fighting in the South. Interestingly, by the time the Trail of Tears began, a few Cherokee had become slaveholders themselves. And despite their being forced from their lands, many Cherokee fought for the South during the Civil War, Their great rivals, the Creeks, mostly fought for the Union, contributing an entire 2,000 man brigade.

53 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:38:50pm

re: #49 Shiplord Kirel

As Maddow points out, the attempted revival of nullification is spreading like wildfire. This is what President Andrew Jackson had to say about the nullifiers in the South Carolina legislature:

The only thing that pissed Jackson off more than nullification and sussessionist talk was insulting his wife. You DID NOT insult his wife.

[Link: www.nndb.com…]

In a time when a woman’s reputation was of grave importance, the whispers about the Jacksons’ marriage were intolerable to the future President, so the Jacksons were married or re-married in 1794. As his political career progressed to the US House, then Senate, and a judgeship, her alleged bigamy and his rumored seduction of a married woman were the basis of frequent fist fights with opponents, and occasional duels. In 1806, in response to an insult about his wife’s character, Andrew Jackson fought a duel with attorney Charles Dickinson, who wounded him before being shot and killed by the future President.

54 Bubblehead II  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:40:19pm

Umm Charles, Your video for this page didn’t run. Least wise on my system. Is there a plug-in I should have? Safari 5.0.4

55 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:49:23pm

Those sessesh yokels on the steps of the Texas Capitol really pissed me off.
“I hate that flag!” quoth the Rexall Ranger.
I have one of those flags. Come and get it, Goober.

The cheerleader mom holding forth so boldly about the horrors of war really amused me though. She has no idea, no idea at all.

56 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:51:21pm

Romney sets himself apart from the GOP majority.

Romney on Obama: ‘The citizenship test has been passed’

Mitt Romney tonight pushed back against those in his party who are questioning President Obama’s citizenship, suggesting his fellow Republicans should put their energy into more substantive issues.

“The citizenship test has been passed,” Romney said tonight on CNBC’s Kudlow Report. “I believe the president was born in the United States. There are real reasons to get this guy out of office…but his citizenship isn’t the reason why.”

I commend Romney for being the last sane GOP candidate.

57 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:51:40pm

I just want to say that about 95% of the time my attitude towards the neo-Confederates is best expressed as “Fuck you, you ignorant, slack-jawed troglodyte motherfuckers”. But about 5% of the time, in moments of weakness, I actually feel sorry for anyone who’s identity revolves around an ass kicking their ancestors got 150 years ago. Maybe it’s because they can’t hurt me anymore, but how sad your present and future must be if you are stuck in and yearning for a past that you didn’t even live and have no real obligation to honor or defend. I can understand being defensive of your father, a person who was good to you and that you have a living memory of, but who the hell fells the need to defend their great-great-great-great grandfather’s bad behavior or bad causes?

58 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:51:51pm

re: #55 Shiplord Kirel

Those sessesh yokels on the steps of the Texas Capitol really pissed me off.

I was so pissed off when Rick Perry started talking about secession that I couldn’t even see straight. I don’t think I’ve ever been angrier at a Texas politician, ever. Even Dubya didn’t piss me off that much, and that’s saying something.

59 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:52:27pm

re: #53 moderatelyradicalliberal

The only thing that pissed Jackson off more than nullification and secessionist talk was insulting his wife. You DID NOT insult his wife.

[Link: www.nndb.com…]

Andrew Jackson was just plain lethal. And part of how he was able to force south Carolina to back down in the Nullification Crisis was that lethal reputation. When he threatened to hang Calhoun, Calhoun believed him.

60 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:52:45pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney sets himself apart from the GOP majority.

Romney on Obama: ‘The citizenship test has been passed’

I commend Romney for being the last sane GOP candidate.

Too bad for him the base hates him for Romneycare and for being a flip-flopping opportunist. And the Mormon thing doesn’t help him in the South, either.

61 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:53:16pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

Andrew Jackson was just plain lethal. And part of how he was able to force south Carolina to back down in the Nullification Crisis was that lethal reputation. When he threatened to hang Calhoun, Calhoun believed him.

Scaring the shit out of the other guy is always a viable diplomatic decision.

62 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:53:47pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney sets himself apart from the GOP majority.

Romney on Obama: ‘The citizenship test has been passed’

I commend Romney for being the last sane GOP candidate.

Marco Rubio did the same thing a few days ago. But far more is needed to run the birthers off.

63 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:54:30pm

re: #60 Lidane

Too bad for him the base hates him for Romneycare and for being a flip-flopping opportunist. And the Mormon thing doesn’t help him in the South, either.

Oh yeah, he’s completely fucked as far as actually getting the GOP nomination, but at least he’s not selling out to jump on the birther wagon.

64 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:56:20pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney sets himself apart from the GOP majority.

Romney on Obama: ‘The citizenship test has been passed’

I commend Romney for being the last sane GOP candidate.

How tragic that that has become the measure. As far as I’m concerned he still supports about 90% of the same things the birther base of the GOP supports so he would still be a terrible president. If Romney is the nominee, President Obama should still make clear, as he did very well with John McCain in reference to Bush II, that there is no real daylight beyond the birtherism. A Romney presidency would be only slightly different from a Bachmann presidency just as their wasn’t much difference between McCain and Bush II.

65 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:56:53pm
66 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:57:40pm

re: #62 Dark_Falcon

Marco Rubio did the same thing a few days ago. But far more is needed to run the birthers off.

At this point birtherism is a feature not a bug in the GOP base.

67 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:57:49pm

re: #64 moderatelyradicalliberal

Untrue. Mitt Romney is a sane person. The President has the power to pull his party in his direction and Romney would move the GOP in a sane direction.

68 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:59:33pm

Creeping Sharia rolls on:

Oklahoma Anti-Sharia Efforts Thwarted Again As Bill Dies In State Senate

How soon before Crazy Pamz has another cranial explosion?

69 Professor Chaos  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:59:49pm

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh yeah, he’s completely fucked as far as actually getting the GOP nomination, but at least he’s not selling out to jump on the birther wagon.

Don’t count him out. He may not be the hottest ticket in town right now, but after a few months of crazy and then the actual voting starts to clear the field he may be in a position to pick up the pieces. A lot of GOPers wouldn’t like it, but then they didn’t like McCain either.

70 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 9:59:53pm

re: #65 Lidane

Whee!

Cantor: U.S. Will Hit Its Debt Ceiling

Update:

Late update: Cantor spokesperson Laena Fallon notes that Republicans will not allow the country to default, but that they will raise the debt ceiling in the window, defined by the Treasury department, between when the country reaches its borrowing limit, and when it actually defaults on its debt. In an emailed statement, she writes, “The House will consider a debt limit increase within the window put forward by Treasury Secretary Geithner. Should he shift his estimation for necessary action based on revenues or outlays, we will move as well. However, as Republicans have made clear, we will not blindly raise the debt limit without meaningful spending cuts and binding budget reforms to ensure that we don’t continue bad spending practices and max out the credit card in the future.”

In his letters to Congressional leaders, Geithner laid it out like this. “The Treasury Department now projects that the debt limit will be reached no later than May 16, 2011.”

If the debt limit is not increased by May 16, the Treasury Department has authority to take certain extraordinary measures, described in detail in the appendix, to temporarily postpone the date that the United States would otherwise default on its obligations. These actions, which have been employed during previous debt limit impasses, would be exhausted after approximately eight weeks, meaning no headroom to borrow within the limit would be available after about July 8, 2011.

So the window is between May 16 — the day the country’s expected to hit the debt ceiling — and July 8 — the date it will default if no action is taken. Cantor says Congress will act within that window.

So there won’t be a default, at least.

71 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:02:42pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

So there won’t be a default, at least.

Maybe not, but they’re still going to play chicken and hold this country hostage again:

Late update: Cantor spokesperson Laena Fallon notes that Republicans will not allow the country to default, but that they will raise the debt ceiling in the window, defined by the Treasury department, between when the country reaches its borrowing limit, and when it actually defaults on its debt.

Nice to know they have the interests of the country at heart. =P

72 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:05:22pm

re: #71 Lidane

Maybe not, but they’re still going to play chicken and hold this country hostage again:

Nice to know they have the interests of the country at heart. =P

They want to force Geitner to do it so they can have something to scream about.

73 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:05:56pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They want to force Geitner to do it so they can have something to scream about.

Anything for a campaign issue in 2012, I guess. =P

74 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:07:17pm

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

Andrew Jackson was just plain lethal. And part of how he was able to force south Carolina to back down in the Nullification Crisis was that lethal reputation. When he threatened to hang Calhoun, Calhoun believed him.

I think Andrew Jackson deserves a movie. Just for the rootin’, tootin’ and shootin’. Staring Gary Oldman with his hair from the movie Immortal Beloved i which he played Beethoven.

Image: gary-oldman-beethoven.jpg

Image: andrew-jackson.jpg

76 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:10:38pm

Hey all,

Here for a short while. Been uber-busy.

How is everyone?

77 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:11:33pm

re: #74 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think Andrew Jackson deserves a movie. Just for the rootin’, tootin’ and shootin’. Staring Gary Oldman with his hair from the movie Immortal Beloved i which he played Beethoven.

Image: gary-oldman-beethoven.jpg

Image: andrew-jackson.jpg

More of a Daniel Day Lewis I think.

78 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:12:05pm

re: #69 Girth

Don’t count him out. He may not be the hottest ticket in town right now, but after a few months of crazy and then the actual voting starts to clear the field he may be in a position to pick up the pieces. A lot of GOPers wouldn’t like it, but then they didn’t like McCain either.

That’s his problem. Nobody really likes him. He doesn’t have a natural constituency. Even if he wins the nomination, I don’t think it will be with a majority of primary voters who will want an alternative to him, there will be no passion for him personally. There is just something about him that is unlikable. He can’t excite or emote and even if he tried it would look tired and fake. He’s the GOP’s John Kerry. A rich patrician from MA with a reputation for flip-flopping.

79 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:13:01pm

re: #78 moderatelyradicalliberal

That’s his problem. Nobody really likes him. He doesn’t have a natural constituency. Even if he wins the nomination, I don’t think it will be with a majority of primary voters who will want an alternative to him, there will be no passion for him personally. There is just something about him that is unlikable. He can’t excite or emote and even if he tried it would look tired and fake. He’s the GOP’s John Kerry. A rich patrician from MA with a reputation for flip-flopping.

Actually, he reminds me of my last stake president. Which is not a coincidence, because he was an LDS stake president.

(It’s a leadership position.)

80 Professor Chaos  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:13:43pm

After the debt ceiling statement and a couple weeks ago when he said that the House budget would become law even though the Senate didn’t pass it and the President didn’t sign it (which I would have given him major points for if he had followed it up by saying “April Fool’s!” but of course he didn’t), I can’t see Cantor as anything but a giant tool. Has he been taking shit-eating grin lessons from Hannity?

81 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:13:50pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

More of a Daniel Day Lewis I think.

DDL has darkness and intensity, but Gary has darkness, intensity and sexy. Have you seen Bram Stoker’s Dracula? Swoon.

82 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:14:40pm

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They want to force Geitner to do it so they can have something to scream about.

No, Cantor wants Obama to be serious about spending cuts and playing chicken is the only way to do that. They need an ‘under the gun’ atmosphere, otherwise Obama will try to brush them off. He has the bully pulpit, so they are using crises to match it.

83 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:15:09pm

re: #81 moderatelyradicalliberal

DDL has darkness and intensity, but Gary has darkness, intensity and sexy. Have you seen Bram Stoker’s Dracula? Swoon.

Yeah, but we’re talking Andrew Jackson here.

84 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:15:52pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, but we’re talking Andrew Jackson here.

Yeah, but we’re talking Hollywood here. Profit is king. Sex sells.

85 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:16:04pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, but we’re talking Andrew Jackson here.

Yes, smoothness is less important than sheer, raw, pistol-waving insanity.

(Did I say that out loud?)

86 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:16:43pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

LOL. The Republicans haven’t been serious about spending cuts in decades. If they were, they’d actually champion the defense cuts the Pentagon have been wanting for ages, getting rid of all those bloated programs even the military doesn’t want.

87 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:17:27pm

I actually would have had DDL over Oldman for Sirius Black, but that’s just because I couldn’t get around the fact that Black was supposed to be tall.

88 Professor Chaos  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:18:13pm

re: #82 Dark_Falcon

No, Cantor wants Obama to be serious about spending cuts and playing chicken is the only way to do that. They need an ‘under the gun’ atmosphere, otherwise Obama will try to brush them off. He has the bully pulpit, so they are using crises to match it.

This deserves a repeat from someone earlier.

89 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:20:19pm

re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, but we’re talking Andrew Jackson here.

This is a movie we’re casting. We need the sexy for the very passionate and intense love affair between Andrew and Rachael. Just as an example, I’m going to go see the new Jan Eyre movie, solely for Michael Fassbender. You make Rochester sexy and I’m there.

[Link: screenrant.com…]

90 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:21:30pm

re: #85 EmmmieG

Yes, smoothness is less important than sheer, raw, pistol-waving insanity.

(Did I say that out loud?)

Gary can do that. He’s one of the best actors out there.

91 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:23:54pm

re: #90 moderatelyradicalliberal

Gary can do that. He’s one of the best actors out there.

I suppose he can do primal force of nature type of characters. Jackson was, however, um, tall. 6’1”.

92 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:24:38pm

I saw the restored version of Birth of a Nation on TMC the other night. I had never seen the complete film before, though I had seen long excerpts. It really is a monumental triumph of film-making, well deserving of its reputation. Its racism and revisionism are beyond the pale however, so bad they were heavily criticized even at the time. This is saying a lot for 1915, when the most demeaning stereotypes were standard advertising fodder and lynchings were common. The theme of sexual menace from the freed blacks runs throughout the narrative. Its glorification of the Ku Klux Klan would be laughable if it had not led directly to the Klan’s revival in the real world.

After Reconstruction, Confederate apologists largely succeeded in re-writing the history of the Civil War. The north was complicit in this in the name of “national unity” and “reconciliation.” Twenty-five years after Birth of a Nation, another monumental film, Gone With the Wind, cemented the romantic myth of the Old South in the public consciousness. This remained almost unchallenged until the 1960s. As we see, it is still prevalent today.

93 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:24:45pm

re: #91 EmmmieG

I suppose he can do primal force of nature type of characters. Jackson was, however, um, tall. 6’1”.

Short.

94 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:25:23pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

Short.

Okay, not exactly Darth Vader territory. However, for the time, it was pretty tall.

95 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:26:04pm

re: #90 moderatelyradicalliberal

Gary can do that. He’s one of the best actors out there.

Fine, but I get Guy Pearce to play Sherman then.

96 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:26:35pm

re: #87 EmmmieG

I actually would have had DDL over Oldman for Sirius Black, but that’s just because I couldn’t get around the fact that Black was supposed to be tall.

Look, I got the hots for Gary. What do you want me to say? Gary, Sting and Denzel Washington are my fantasy old man boyfriends. They give all the young bucks a run for their money.

97 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:28:00pm

no matter what you think of andrew jackson’s policies, and a lot of them are indefensible today, like the trail of tears, there’s always one thing that all historians agree on about him:

they don’t make ‘em like that anymore

98 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:29:18pm

re: #96 moderatelyradicalliberal

Look, I got the hots for Gary. What do you want me to say? Gary, Sting and Denzel Washington are my fantasy old man boyfriends. They give all the young bucks a run for their money.

Those three certainly come off as being smarter than most actors. The “extras” in one of the Harry Potters was a bit jarring, because Gary Oldman was playing…Gary Oldman…in the interview.

Bit like a college professor. A cool one.

99 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:29:29pm

re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fine, but I get Guy Pearce to play Sherman then.

Deal. I like him a lot too. He, Billy Bob Thornton and Marc Anthony (J-Lo’s husband) are on my “oddly sexy” list.

100 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:32:17pm

Good night.

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:32:52pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

In the case of the American Revolution, yes, but it has to be said that is retrospective. Had I been alive at the time, I would have been a Loyalist. I’m not a fan of revolts and sudden change, preferring order and stability. I do make exceptions, but I also try not to be dishonest with myself. So I’m glad the American Revolution succeeded, but I would not have been on the Patriot side of it.

Dark knows Dark. And he is upfront about it.

:)

102 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:33:44pm

re: #98 EmmmieG

Those three certainly come off as being smarter than most actors. The “extras” in one of the Harry Potters was a bit jarring, because Gary Oldman was playing…Gary Oldman…in the interview.

Bit like a college professor. A cool one.

Yeah, I don’t mind them when they talk. There are other actors who shouldn’t ever talk because they come off as pretentious and trying to hard to sound knowledgeable about things that they clearly know nothing about. They try to be smart and cool when really they are just pretty. Brad Pitt comes to mind. Dude, just flash those dimples and move on.

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:33:48pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

When he in fact did deserve what Andrew Jackson threatened him with, to be hanged “as high as Haman” (from the Book of Esther). On his deathbed, Andrew Jackson admitted to only two regrets, one of which was that he had not carried that threat out (the other was that he had never owned a racehorse that could defeat a famous racer named “Haynie’s Maria”).

Yes, but Andrew Jackson was sekretly born in Ireland, so he wasn’t really president.

///

104 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:35:07pm

re: #36 SpaceJesus

and the muslims, don’t forget them

waiting for some idiot revisionist to claim lincoln instituted shariah while in office. im sure it will happen.

Have you noticed how Mary Todd Lincoln always wore a hat when she went out?

105 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:36:24pm

re: #96 moderatelyradicalliberal

Look, I got the hots for Gary. What do you want me to say? Gary, Sting and Denzel Washington are my fantasy old man boyfriends. They give all the young bucks a run for their money.

There really is only ONE true fantasy boyfriend:

Sean Connery.

:)

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:36:36pm

re: #41 EmmmieG

As long as Confederate fashions don’t come back in fashion.

I don’t need a hoop skirt, and I don’t need to make some other woman work to pay for it.

The styles of the mid-nineteenth century are just not my thing.

If we’re going to play dress-up, I much prefer the Revolutionary period.

(Their tendency to wear Colonial-era dress is one of the only things I like about the Tea Partiers.)

107 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:37:09pm

Chicks.
Go figure.
///

108 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:37:42pm

Have a great evening all!

109 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:38:35pm

re: #45 EmmmieG

I think I might have regretted screwing over the American Indians, but I suppose if he had thought about that, he wouldn’t have done it in the first place.

Not that thoughtful a man.

OTOH, he had a big block of cheese.

110 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:38:53pm

re: #105 ggt

There really is only ONE true fantasy boyfriend:

Sean Connery.

:)

He’s the only James Bond as far as I’m concerned.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:39:38pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney sets himself apart from the GOP majority.

Romney on Obama: ‘The citizenship test has been passed’

I commend Romney for being the last sane GOP candidate.

Me too.

He’s doomed.

112 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:39:39pm

Goodnight, all.

113 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:40:26pm

Remember the introduction to the movie version of Gone With the Wind?

There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South. Here in this pretty world, Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave. Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a Civilization gone with the wind…

This is the mythology that took hold in the twentieth century, in north and south alike. It is an astonishing contrast to the sober truth, that the antebellum south was too often a land of pretense, indolence, exploitation, and rape. It has taken fifty years to even begin to root it out.

114 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:42:46pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

Me too.

He’s doomed.

LOL!

[Link: www.multiplechoicemitt.com…]

115 engineer cat  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:43:05pm

picture president jackson old and laid up with the pain of all the bullets that were never removed from his body, rachel gone and the country in turmoil, lying on a chaise lounge in his office, swearing at nullifiers while waving his walking stick at his aides

“A natural king
With a raven wing;

Old old,
Old old,
Andrew Jackson!”

- vachel lindsay

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:43:39pm

re: #68 Lidane

Creeping Sharia rolls on:

Oklahoma Anti-Sharia Efforts Thwarted Again As Bill Dies In State Senate

How soon before Crazy Pamz has another cranial explosion?

Oklahoma Legislators Continue To Not Get Why They Need To Pass A Law Against This Thing No One In Oklahoma Has Ever Heard Of

Film At Eleven

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:44:27pm

re: #77 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

More of a Daniel Day Lewis I think.

That long jaw and the sad eyes.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:45:55pm

re: #91 EmmmieG

I suppose he can do primal force of nature type of characters. Jackson was, however, um, tall. 6’1”.

Which was taller at the time.

(Michelle Obama is tied with Eleanor Roosevelt for tallest First Lady. I think Eleanor still wins, because 5-11 was a lot taller for her generation.)

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:46:57pm

re: #96 moderatelyradicalliberal

Look, I got the hots for Gary. What do you want me to say? Gary, Sting and Denzel Washington are my fantasy old man boyfriends. They give all the young bucks a run for their money.

Denzel works for me. And De Niro.

120 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:51:03pm

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

Denzel works for me. And De Niro.

Oh, yes De Niro. I knew I left someone off the list.

121 Varek Raith  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 10:58:26pm

Night.

122 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:02:22pm

re: #52 Dark_Falcon

That is not necessarily so. There was no threat of fighting with the Cherokee at this time. They had made good with the new USA and there were quite a few, actually a lot of white people who lived in Cherokee. What started it was a slave boy had found a strange rock along the border of the Cherokee nation near the foothills and brought it to his master. It was gold. After that there was a small but growing group of people pushing for the removal. There were a lot of people, North and South against the removal. As Andrew Jackson said himself, many white southerners considered the Cherokee kin. Greed got the best of the public after rumors started that there was so much gold in the Cherokee hills it would make everyone rich. Finally, someone came up with the brilliant idea that the pyramid city ruins, that everyone was discovering all along the Mississippi, were not built by the Indians, but by Europeans, after a Welshman named Modok discovered America sometime around 1000 AD. People convinced themselves that Europeans built those city’s then the Indians came and killed all the Europeans and now Americans must avenge them and retake their land back. I shit you not. There is still a sign in the south dedicated to Modok and those Europeans that the Indians supposedly massacred. No body bothered to ever take it down because, no one remembers this part of history.

123 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:03:44pm

re: #105 ggt

There really is only ONE true fantasy boyfriend:

Sean Connery.

:)

Not for me. I’ll take Karl Urban, Matt Damon, Viggo Mortensen, Bradley Cooper, Nathan Fillion, or George Clooney. Chris Pine, too, if I’m feeling like someone younger than me. ;)

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:04:48pm

re: #123 Lidane

Not for me. I’ll take Karl Urban, Matt Damon, Viggo Mortensen, Bradley Cooper, Nathan Fillion, or George Clooney. Chris Pine, too, if I’m feeling like someone younger than me. ;)

Nathan Fillion works.

Actually, there is no one on the cast of Firefly that I can’t see having a fantasy fling with.

125 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:06:15pm

re: #122 Cankles McCellulite
Oops, sorry Modoc.

126 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:07:12pm

Pff, all the ladies seem to be going crazy for the sugarlumps

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:07:17pm

re: #125 Cankles McCellulite

Oops, sorry Modoc.

I’m familiar with the Madoc legend, but didn’t realize he was supposed to have been massacred.

128 Lidane  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:07:51pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Nathan Fillion works.

Actually, there is no one on the cast of Firefly that I can’t see having a fantasy fling with.

I don’t think my boyfriend completely understands why I watch Castle every week. Nathan Fillion is awesome. Both he and Karl Urban are my geeky, let’s-go-to-Comic Con fantasy boyfriends. Hehehe.

129 SpaceJesus  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:08:12pm

re: #104 SanFranciscoZionist

Have you noticed how Mary Todd Lincoln always wore a hat when she went out?

the death of lincoln’s son willie of “TB” was clearly just a cover-up for an honor killing that the liberal academics have been hiding all this time.

131 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:12:08pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist
He he. No, he wasn’t, the story, that was concocted, at this time, was that Modoc discovered America, Europeans came over to a virgin wilderness, and their descendants built the flat top pyramid city’s, Then Indians came from, somewhere, space? and killed them all, and all the city’s were left in ruin.

132 Kragar (Antichrist )  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:13:14pm

re: #131 Cankles McCellulite

He he. No, he wasn’t, the story, that was concocted, at this time, was that Modoc discovered America, Europeans came over to a virgin wilderness, and their descendants built the flat top pyramid city’s, Then Indians came from, somewhere, space? and killed them all, and all the city’s were left in ruin.

THOSE BASTARDS!
///

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:16:21pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THOSE BASTARDS!
///

A popular hobby in the nineteenth century was finding Indians with blue or gray eyes who were supposed to be descendants of the Welsh settlers, or or who spoke a language that sounded like Welsh.

Kept dozens of idiots gainfully employed for quite some time.

134 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:17:39pm

“Confederate themes back in fashion” They’ve never been out of fashion. Nice faux reporting on Maddow’s part.

135 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:17:56pm

And again, as always, i apologize for my punctuation and sentence structure. I should always lead with this apology. And read what i write before i post.

136 freetoken  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:21:12pm

Is the age of empires truly over?

137 Goosestepping Obama Tina Brown  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:21:57pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

HA! Yes! that is true. They thought that the Mandan were one such group. They also thought the Mandan might also be descendant of Vikings-which there is actual evidence of the Vikings being in North America before any other Europeans.

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Apr 12, 2011 11:51:41pm

My attitude and interest in the Civil War can be summed up by a quote from a famous Civil War website:

“As I read and study, I pull for Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet. As I live, I thank Grant, Lincoln, and Democracy”

139 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:06:29am

Let’s check in with Meg Whitman:

Former Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman said Tuesday that her party must change its approach on immigration if it wants to be successful in California.

No shit.

Whitman did not offer specific prescriptions.

No shit.

Later, during a debate with Brown in Fresno, Whitman told a high-achieving undocumented student that she was taking away a spot from a legal resident. And in the month before election day, an illegal immigrant housekeeper who worked for Whitman for nearly a decade emerged, prompting questions of hypocrisy. In a Los Angeles Times/USC poll taken after the election, 71% of Latino voters said they disliked Whitman.

HAHAHAHAHA!!

Whitman declined to say whether she felt any specific action in the campaign fatally wounded her.

“It’s hard to know,” she said. “The campaign went on for a long time, a really long time. It’s hard to point to one thing.”

Really? I mean, really?

She said she had no regrets about her campaign, whose price tag shattered records for overall spending on a non-presidential race — $180 million — as well as for self-funding.

“I was privileged to run and willingly spent 2 1/2 years…running, and obviously I’m sorry that it didn’t turn out the way I had hoped,” she said.

She spent $180 million gambling on keeping a skeleton in the closet, running as an anti immigration Republican in a State where the use of Spanish predates the US Constitution.

140 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:06:58am

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

Sorry, link.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:11:04am

This is what Art Bell referred to as the quickening, everything happening and changing at a greater and greater rate until one is exhausted by the very notion of keeping up with developments

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:12:11am

I am beginning to avoid the news now because I just would rather put my energy into positive things and not just mute disgust and the shittiness that walks among us :(

143 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:12:41am

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

you are really one of my favorite people on the internet, and I’m not kidding

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:13:54am

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

In the case of the American Revolution, yes, but it has to be said that is retrospective. Had I been alive at the time, I would have been a Loyalist. I’m not a fan of revolts and sudden change, preferring order and stability. I do make exceptions, but I also try not to be dishonest with myself. So I’m glad the American Revolution succeeded, but I would not have been on the Patriot side of it.

Your preoccupaction with order has started to just become fascinating to me

145 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:15:00am

re: #143 WindUpBird

you are really one of my favorite people on the internet, and I’m not kidding

Thank you!! You make me wish I was gay, and I’m not kidding.

146 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:16:46am

re: #144 WindUpBird

Your preoccupaction with order has started to just become fascinating to me

Remember, that the Loyalists and “undecided” faction comprised the majority of colonists, the Patriots were just a very active and vocal minority that succeeded.

Which is why we must be wary of vocal minorities, especially ones whose very name, self-identification and imagery harkens back to times of armed rebellion.

Tea, anybody?

147 freetoken  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 12:40:05am

re: #146 ralphieboy

Most of us just want to live life passively. Only those who are driven by ego and desire make the changes.

148 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 1:10:25am

re: #145 goddamnedfrank

Thank you!! You make me wish I was gay, and I’m not kidding.

I’m more weird than gay, honestly, gay is just an easier way of describing it

149 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 1:17:32am

re: #148 WindUpBird

I’m more weird than gay, honestly, gay is just an easier way of describing it

I was widely considered gay in junior high and high school. Mostly because I was a nerd and a social reject, was interested in art and literature and never had a girlfriend until college.

Although for all my other hangups and idiosyncracies, I never had any conflicts about my sexual orientation, even from the earliest age. I am now the father of four children.

150 freetoken  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 1:51:17am
151 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 2:23:49am

‘Morning, all. It’s 5:21 here on the Gulf coast, a few miles from where the Florida constitution was drafted. (The first one, 1838. The words ‘slave’, ‘slavery’ are not included.)

152 freetoken  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 2:27:45am
153 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 2:35:57am

re: #151 Decatur Deb

‘Morning, all. It’s 5:21 here on the Gulf coast, a few miles from where the Florida constitution was drafted. (The first one, 1838. The words ‘slave’, ‘slavery’ are not included.)

Therefore slavery did not exist in Florida?

154 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 2:38:55am

re: #153 ralphieboy

Therefore slavery did not exist in Florida?

Au contraire—it was assumed by the third word of the draft: “freeman’. (I’vebeen reviewing the draft for the last few minutes, and did find the word ‘slaves’, in the section on the census enumeration. That’s a Google Cache subtlety.

155 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 2:46:51am

Okay, there were slaves, but they were happy slaves, of course…they knew their place and were more than happy to be counted as three-fifths of a human being for census purposes.

/

156 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 2:51:22am

re: #155 ralphieboy

Okay, there were slaves, but they were happy slaves, of course…they knew their place and were more than happy to be counted as three-fifths of a human being for census purposes.

/

Yeah—it also used the phrase “free white man” in defining the right to bear arms. Guess that left out any freedmen and Seminoles.

157 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:00:10am

Even the right to bear arms has to have its limits, you know…

158 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:00:47am

re: #92 Shiplord Kirel

I saw the restored version of Birth of a Nation on TMC the other night. I had never seen the complete film before, though I had seen long excerpts. It really is a monumental triumph of film-making, well deserving of its reputation. Its racism and revisionism are beyond the pale however, so bad they were heavily criticized even at the time. This is saying a lot for 1915, when the most demeaning stereotypes were standard advertising fodder and lynchings were common. The theme of sexual menace from the freed blacks runs throughout the narrative. Its glorification of the Ku Klux Klan would be laughable if it had not led directly to the Klan’s revival in the real world.

After Reconstruction, Confederate apologists largely succeeded in re-writing the history of the Civil War. The north was complicit in this in the name of “national unity” and “reconciliation.” Twenty-five years after Birth of a Nation, another monumental film, Gone With the Wind, cemented the romantic myth of the Old South in the public consciousness. This remained almost unchallenged until the 1960s. As we see, it is still prevalent today.

President Woodrow Wilson recommended “Birth of a Nation” glowingly. Personally, I’ve always preferred the crowd shots in “Will to Power”.

159 researchok  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:23:03am

Morning, all

160 researchok  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:26:44am

re: #152 freetoken

[Video]

Oddly enough, that is a mellow way to get going.

Good selection.

161 researchok  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:27:49am

re: #158 Decatur Deb

President Woodrow Wilson recommended “Birth of a Nation” glowingly. Personally, I’ve always preferred the crowd shots in “Will to Power”.

A more effusive bunch

162 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:33:35am

This is good news…

DC to offer Internet gambling, becomes first in US

WASHINGTON (AP) — The District of Columbia is becoming the first U.S. jurisdiction to allow Internet gambling, trying to raise millions of dollars from the habits of online poker buffs and acting ahead of traditional gambling meccas like New Jersey and Nevada.

This will probably be the first time in a long time that joe citizen will have full control of how their money gets pissed away in Washington DC.

[Link: hosted.ap.org…]

163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:36:54am

Hollywood Cemetery (Richmond, VA) is less than ten miles from me. Whole bunch of Confederate soldiers are buried there. My best friends apartment overlooks a statue of JEB Stuart. The city of Richmond is full of monuments to the Civil war.

I’m pretty much over it.

164 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:37:51am

re: #158 Decatur Deb

President Woodrow Wilson recommended “Birth of a Nation” glowingly. Personally, I’ve always preferred the crowd shots in “Will to Power”.


Will To Power also won international acclaim when it first came out: people were thrilled by the spectacle but not yet very aware of what was really behind it

165 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:48:19am

Science - Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - April 13, 2011

Buzzard Coulee

Compact angular mass with convex front and concave base. Apart from a 5 mm chip this meteorite is completely coated with a rich black fusion crust, which on one surface shows a brownish hue. Buzzard Coulee fell as a meteorite shower after a bright fireball was observed across Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba on the evening of November 20, 2008. The fireball and subsequent dust trail were recorded by several all-sky and security video cameras. This footage as well as interviews of eyewitnesses constrained the fall region and led to the first meteorites being recovered off the ice of a manmade pond seven days after the fall. At least several hundred specimens were recovered in 2008 and 2009, the largest pieces weighing 13 kg, 6.99 kg and 1.3 kg respectively. The pictured specimen weighs 187 grams and was found on April 16, 2009 (Canada export permit #105591). The scalecube is 1 cm.

Image: Buzzard_of_the_day.jpg

[Link: www.rocksfromspace.org…]

166 researchok  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:57:39am

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hollywood Cemetery (Richmond, VA) is less than ten miles from me. Whole bunch of Confederate soldiers are buried there. My best friends apartment overlooks a statue of JEB Stuart. The city of Richmond is full of monuments to the Civil war.

I’m pretty much over it.

Don’t forget the Museum of the Confederacy.

I aways see the sign on my way up to DC on I-95

167 sattv4u2  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 3:59:42am

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hollywood Cemetery (Richmond, VA) is less than ten miles from me. Whole bunch of Confederate soldiers are buried there. My best friends apartment overlooks a statue of JEB Stuart. The city of Richmond is full of monuments to the Civil war.

I’m pretty much over it.


So are the people buried there!
/

168 sattv4u2  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:01:05am

re: #157 ralphieboy

Even the right to bear arms has to have its limits, you know…

How about the right to arm bears?

169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:05:39am

If my schedule allows… I will go by the cemetery today and watch the racists cry over the grave of Jefferson Davis (which is there). I’ll look up my looong dead Uncle J.E.B. (I’m related somehow) and say “Hey”.

Actually it’s an interesting place to spend a few hours.

170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:07:00am

re: #168 sattv4u2

I’m lookin’ for the man who shot my paw…

171 sattv4u2  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:08:06am

re: #170 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m lookin’ for the man who shot my paw…

You have paws?

I have hands and feet!

172 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:11:37am
173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:12:45am
174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:13:33am
175 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:14:27am

re: #163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hollywood Cemetery (Richmond, VA) is less than ten miles from me. Whole bunch of Confederate soldiers are buried there. My best friends apartment overlooks a statue of JEB Stuart. The city of Richmond is full of monuments to the Civil war.

I’m pretty much over it.

There is also a Jewish military cemetery for Confederate soldiers.

176 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:14:39am
177 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:18:37am

re: #167 sattv4u2

So are the people buried there!
/

But not these people. I pass this when visiting a son:

Image: Tampa_Flag1.jpg

And this visiting a daughter:

Image: 0.jpg

They surround us.

178 RIRedinPA  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:25:21am

re: #34 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

46% in Mississippi think interracial marriage should be illegal. Nuff said on that I think.

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:25:28am

Once I was at Hollywood Cemetery and a family from Indiana was at Jeff Davis’ grave site.

They asked me to take their picture together. Until after I had taken the shot, I didn’t notice what the teenage son’s t-shirt said.

A white fist raised to the air and the caption… “Keep it pure”.

I remember thinking… “Really?”

180 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:27:57am

re: #178 RIRedinPA

46% in Mississippi think interracial marriage should be illegal. Nuff said on that I think.

Another 42% think ‘interracial marriages’ take place in the infield at NASCAR events.

181 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:31:06am

Morning all!

182 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:33:03am

Winner of the Redneck Beauty Contest. Miss Cegnation.

183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:35:24am

I just scraped my knuckles on the ceiling under an archway in my hotel room. Very rough textured ceiling. Gosh that hurt! Bleeding.

Nearing fifty years old, that’s a first.

184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:37:26am

“Confound this Civil War. It almost like the country’s being torn into two.” -Abe Lincoln, In My Own Words -Bob Odenkirk

[Link: comedians.jokes.com…]

185 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:37:28am

re: #183 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just scraped my knuckles on the ceiling under an archway in my hotel room. Very rough textured ceiling. Gosh that hurt! Bleeding.

Nearing fifty years old, that’s a first.

You sound short.

186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:39:39am

re: #185 RogueOne

6’2”?

187 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:39:58am

re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That’s what I thought. Short.

188 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:40:58am

re: #177 Decatur Deb

It’s part of the official state flag of Mississippi…

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

And the United States Post Office apparently has no problem commemorating this flag… here is the new states flag series of US postage stamps (see the Mississippi State flag represented here)…

[Link: www.usps.com…]

Why is a federal agency supporting this racist symbol?

189 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:41:30am

re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Although, you’re probably the biggest vegetarian on the planet. Did you eat meat during your formative years?

190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:41:55am

re: #189 RogueOne

Although, you’re probably the biggest vegetarian on the planet. Did you eat meat during your formative years?

Only most of it.

191 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:42:29am

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

It’s part of the official state flag of Mississippi…

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

And the United States Post Office apparently has no problem commemorating this flag… here is the new states flag series of US postage stamps (see the Mississippi State flag represented here)…

[Link: www.usps.com…]

Why is a federal agency supporting this racist symbol?

Beats the hell out of me.

192 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:46:34am

Daniels did an interview with the Indy Star yesterday and he’s found a campaign theme:

Daniels’ presidential run would take on big issues
But governor says he still hasn’t decided on 2012 campaign
[Link: www.indystar.com…]


One factor that could push him to decide to run: So far none of the rest of the GOP presidential hopefuls has focused on the fiscal issues to the degree Daniels would like.

In fact, in recent days the talk has seemed to center more around the political sideshow led by Donald Trump, who has renewed questions about whether Obama is a U.S. citizen. That, among other things, led Time magazine columnist Joe Klein to beg Daniels to get into the race, calling the rest of the GOP field a “freak show.”

Asked about that portrayal of the Republican choices, Daniels laughed.

“It’s always good to be held to a low standard,” he said and envisioned his campaign being praised with the words: “At least he’s not a freak.”

193 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:56:51am

Awful story going around Indy for the last few days:


4 held in alleged plan to sell baby to sex offender
[Link: www.indystar.com…]


According to an Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department report, Faucett and Hester agreed to sell their daughter to Michael Overby and his sister-in-law Debbie Overby for $300. Michael Overby is a convicted child molester, and Debbie Overby has been convicted of felony child neglect, police said. One IMPD report indicated the baby was unborn, but another report was unclear on that point.

Michael Overby faces an additional charge of forgery, police say, after he fraudulently signed documents stating he was the baby’s biological father.

194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:58:31am

re: #193 RogueOne

I hope they both die. A slow, lingering firey death.

Is that wrong?

195 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 4:59:19am

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

I reiterate: Those Republicans who excoriate Abraham Lincoln are the RINOs base, not people like Chris Christie and Mark Kirk.

FTFY

196 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:01:46am

Stonewall Jackson has two gravesites: one for his arm, amputated directly after the battle of Chancellorsville, and the other for the rest of him, which died a few days later…

197 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:04:09am

BBL

198 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:04:51am

re: #196 ralphieboy

Stonewall Jackson has two gravesites: one for his arm, amputated directly after the battle of Chancellorsville, and the other for the rest of him, which died a few days later…

That’s him all over. (trivia - that’s a modified reference to a line in what movie?)

199 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:05:40am

re: #196 ralphieboy

Stonewall Jackson has two gravesites: one for his arm, amputated directly after the battle of Chancellorsville, and the other for the rest of him, which died a few days later…

Wasn’t he fragged by his own men?

200 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:06:04am

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hope they both die. A slow, lingering firey death.

Is that wrong?

Nope. I really want to be 100% against the death penalty but people like this always pop up and ruin it for me.

201 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:08:38am

re: #192 RogueOne

Daniels did an interview with the Indy Star yesterday and he’s found a campaign theme:

Daniels’ presidential run would take on big issues
But governor says he still hasn’t decided on 2012 campaign
[Link: www.indystar.com…]

Here’s got a bit of a problem if he wants to run as the grownup: he’s have to put out a plan worthy of a grownup, which would require details. So (for example) he would have to address the revenue side of the budget equation. If he does the doctrinaire GOP thing and pretend like the Bush tax rates are a birthright, then he will have to do things on the spending side that will be very difficult to run on. Or he can address revenues and get crushed in the primaries.

He doesn’t strike me as being nimble enough to tapdance his way through the primary season as the fiscal grownup without addressing the details. Somebody, somewhere on the campaign trail will pin him down. And then he’s done. And we are back to They’re Stealing Our Liberty, Planned Parenthood, Anchor Babies and Birth Certificates 24/7.

202 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:13:31am

re: #201 garhighway

He’s said before that we’ll have to do something about taxes and he’s followed through in Indiana by raising taxes during his first term. He’s not taking anything off the table, including military spending, which neither party seems to want to deal with.


Tully: Will Daniels seek presidency? Sounds like it
[Link: www.indystar.com…]


A potential Daniels campaign is compelling in large part because he is willing to talk about tough choices that most candidates for president strategically avoid.

The pundits and others who have pushed Daniels to run are doing so primarily because he is willing to have adult conversations on issues such as Social Security, Medicare and defense spending. Tuesday, he talked idealistically about the idea that voters would welcome such conversations, even though they would lead to tough decisions.

It would take the right message, he said.

203 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:17:36am

re: #201 garhighway

I don’t know if he stands a chance of winning the nomination. He’s not telegenic enough and he doesn’t do red meat “dems are evil” sort of speeches. OTOH, if there was ever a time for a man with his personality to make it, this might be it.

204 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:20:06am

re: #203 RogueOne

I don’t know if he stands a chance of winning the nomination. He’s not telegenic enough and he doesn’t do red meat “dems are evil” sort of speeches. OTOH, if there was ever a time for a man with his personality to make it, this might be it.

The biggest problem with Daniels is that he is a Republican. So, we already know he is racist, anti-science, anti-woman and a creationist. Case closed.

205 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:23:29am

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

If by some miracle he managed to get the nomination he can win the presidency. He’ll win the independent vote and repubs are still pretty animated so I would imagine a pretty decent turnout in ‘12.

206 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:27:39am

US lacks credibility on debt, says IMF
[Link: www.ft.com…]


The US lacks a “credible strategy” to stabilise its mounting public debt, posing a small but significant risk of a new global economic crisis, says the International Monetary Fund.

In an unusually stern rebuke to its largest shareholder, the IMF said the US was the only advanced economy to be increasing its underlying budget deficit in 2011, at a time when its economy was growing fast enough to reduce borrowing.

207 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:27:40am

re: #203 RogueOne

I don’t know if he stands a chance of winning the nomination. He’s not telegenic enough and he doesn’t do red meat “dems are evil” sort of speeches. OTOH, if there was ever a time for a man with his personality to make it, this might be it.

It would be nice to see him try. It would be like a science experiment:

“And now we introduce the reasonable thinker to the Republican base to see whether he triggers an immune response.”

208 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:31:55am

re: #199 Alouette

Wasn’t he fragged by his own men?

not fragged, just shot by accident in the dark

209 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:37:27am

S**t just got serious in Israel:

Netanyahu Cancels Bieber Meeting
[Link: www.haaretz.com…]

210 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:39:08am

I wonder if Hollywood is ever going to start making new movies again instead of nothing but remakes:

Bradley Cooper Eyes Starring Role in ‘The Crow’ Remake
[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com…]

211 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:40:58am

re: #210 RogueOne

I wonder if Hollywood is ever going to start making new movies again instead of nothing but remakes:

Bradley Cooper Eyes Starring Role in ‘The Crow’ Remake
[Link: www.hollywoodreporter.com…]

Hollywood loves remakes. “It made so much money the first time, think how much more money it will make again!”

Has anyone seen the new “Arthur”? The first one was kind of sucky, according to the reviews the new one sucks even more.

212 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:45:35am

re: #211 Alouette

Hollywood loves remakes. “It made so much money the first time, think how much more money it will make again!”

Has anyone seen the new “Arthur”? The first one was kind of sucky, according to the reviews the new one sucks even more.

Even the previews for the new “Arthur” suck.

213 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:50:18am

I don’t think you’d like Brand.

He’s a weird dude. I like him best when he’s in constrained circumstances, because then his outsider-ness is really funny. When he’s given free reign to be quirky, he goes too far and gets weird and quite nasty at times.

Like telling a guy that he’d slept with his granddaughter. While live on radio.

214 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:53:24am

re: #213 Obdicut

I don’t think you’d like Brand.

He’s a weird dude. I like him best when he’s in constrained circumstances, because then his outsider-ness is really funny. When he’s given free reign to be quirky, he goes too far and gets weird and quite nasty at times.

Like telling a guy that he’d slept with his granddaughter. While live on radio.

That’s a sick little scenario you present there. Where do you come up with those zingers?

215 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:53:32am

re: #213 Obdicut

I don’t think you’d like Brand.

He’s a weird dude. I like him best when he’s in constrained circumstances, because then his outsider-ness is really funny. When he’s given free reign to be quirky, he goes too far and gets weird and quite nasty at times.

Like telling a guy that he’d slept with his granddaughter. While live on radio.

So, that wasn’t a performance in “Get Him to the Greek” that was really Brand being himself?

216 aagcobb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:53:50am

re: #206 RogueOne

Fuck the IMF. We don’t have a debt crisis, Congress could solve the “problem” simply by doing nothing.

217 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:54:31am

re: #214 Walter L. Newton

What are you talking about, Walter?

218 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:57:53am

re: #213 Obdicut


I once saw him hosting a show on British TV in which people met to discuss what had just happened in that day’s “Big Brother” episode. I found it a true nadir of television.

219 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 5:58:32am

re: #215 Alouette

Yep. He’s fun on panel shows and other places when there’s some sort of constraint and his surreal rebellion has something to play against. And his stand-up— where he has to get the audience on board— is quite good.

He’s also bipolar. The personality isn’t all a facade.

220 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:02:52am

re: #216 aagcobb

Fuck the IMF. We don’t have a debt crisis, Congress could solve the “problem” simply by doing nothing.

Interesting piece, and it makes a good point: let the economy continue to recover, let the tax cuts expire and leave HCR alone and the numbers get a lot better all by themselves. Add in a couple of wars ending and then we are getting somewhere.

221 Political Atheist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:07:44am

re: #216 aagcobb

Why would the IMF anticipate those inactions & events? They see a Tea Party house and the tax cuts getting extended, the wars continuing and continued high spending.

222 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:08:47am

re: #216 aagcobb

Fuck the IMF. We don’t have a debt crisis, Congress could solve the “problem” simply by doing nothing.

First, the whole “do nothing” plan is out the window. The president is going to give his vision for reducing the debt later today.

Second, Slate does a nice job of cherry-picking numbers and conflating debt with deficit. According to the CBO our debt will reach almost 70% of GDP at the end of the decade and even with the “extreme cuts” in the Ryan plan the debt still goes up.

223 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:13:40am

re: #222 RogueOne

Of course with Ryan’s severe tax cuts the debt goes up. He doesn’t care about the debt. He cares about gutting a certain class of ‘entitlement’ programs.

The main cost we need to address if we want costs to go down is healthcare. The best way to do this is to mainly switch from physician compensation per procedure and change it to a more whole-patient-care or other format. Doing that, of course, is incredibly tricky.

There’s a lot of great pilot programs in other ways to reduce medical costs, and we need to do a lot more about spreading what works from one place to another. This is something that I feel that Obama and the Democrats should be working on, since the GOP isn’t likely to be ideologically opposed to it and because Obama can do a lot through HHS and the Surgeon General on his own.

It’ll take a cultural shift with doctors as well, and that’s a tough row to hoe. Gawande is doing his best; we need more.

224 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:19:05am

re: #223 Obdicut

We’ll see what the president says later today. His debt commission said we have to deal with our entitlement programs and I think they’re right. Right now his hand has been forced, people can slam the Ryan plan but, at a minimum, it’s changed the tone of the debate. The argument is no longer about any cuts but how many cuts.

Best case-scenario from an independent point of view is the left proposes raising taxes and cutting military, the right proposes medicaid/medicare reform and they meet somewhere in the middle. That would be the adult thing to do which means it’s probably not going to happen.

225 Political Atheist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:19:59am

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
I paged the IMF report yesterday with this comment…
“Perhaps the IMF can say what would be terribly unpopular and thought to be just more right wing paranoia if I said it…”

And now I would point out because of the Tea Party nuts all too many fiscally conservative concerns/points are brushed aside as nutty or paranoid.

re: #223 Obdicut

Jerry Brown has a better concept than Ryan-At least for California- Split the deficit. Half via spending cuts, half via revenue increases, err, taxes go up. Divide and overcome. Not a bad concept if you ask this conservative.

226 aagcobb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:20:03am

re: #222 RogueOne

That’s because Ryan’s plan guts programs for the poor and middle class to give massive tax cuts to the rich, rather than reduce public debt.

227 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:21:33am

On the Confederacy. It would have fallen, and quickly, even if it had won the war.

It was founded on the idea of “If I don’ wanna, I don’ hafta!” The first time. say, Georgia and Alabama got into a disagreement that regarded things in the Confederate government’s sphere, and the Confederate government made a decision that was unpopular, one or both of the States would have given the Confederacy the finger and left.

In my opinion that drive to be ‘free of outside influence’ would have caused even the individual states themselves to break up.

Within a generation of the end of the Civil War the area that made up the Confederacy would have been as fragmented and impotent as Germany in the 17th Century.

Just my opinion though.

228 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:23:51am

re: #224 RogueOne

Did you just skip over my post? Medicare/medicaid reform is pointless without actual addressing healthcare costs.

229 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:26:32am

re: #227 Romantic Heretic


Even during the Civil War, the state of Georgia, which actually had a surplus supply of arms and uniforms, refused to release them for other states to use.

230 Lidane  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:26:35am

re: #224 RogueOne

Best case-scenario from an independent point of view is the left proposes raising taxes and cutting military, the right proposes medicaid/medicare reform and they meet somewhere in the middle. That would be the adult thing to do which means it’s probably not going to happen.

As if the Republicans will ever go along with cutting defense, despite the military brass wanting to get rid of a bunch of bloated, obsolete weapons programs that waste billions. Their genius plan was no more color copies at the Pentagon. =P

re: #228 Obdicut

Medicare/medicaid reform is pointless without actual addressing healthcare costs.

Yep. And that’s something that will be a much harder conversation to have.

231 aagcobb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:27:36am

re: #227 Romantic Heretic

Good point. One wonders if at some point they would have recognized the sense of unity and unified, as Germany and Italy did in the 19th Century. That’s all just grist for alternative history novels now, though.

232 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:28:50am

re: #228 Obdicut

Did you just skip over my post? Medicare/medicaid reform is pointless without actual addressing healthcare costs.

No, I didn’t skip over your post. I don’t think we’re here to convince each other over the rightness of the particulars of our positions since we obviously disagree on most fiscal issues. I’m not here to tell you I think you’re wrong all the time. The question is can there be a compromise. Will the president and the republicans find a way to get something done about a serious problem while beating each other up.

233 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:30:47am

re: #230 Lidane

As if the Republicans will ever go along with cutting defense, despite the military brass wanting to get rid of a bunch of bloated, obsolete weapons programs that waste billions. Their genius plan was no more color copies at the Pentagon. =P

re: #228 Obdicut

Yep. And that’s something that will be a much harder conversation to have.

Republicans are never going to suggest tax increases and dems are never going to suggest cutting social programs. We’re stuck with the 2 parties we have. I have hope (very little but still..) that they’ll do what they did last week. Scream at each other on cable news programs while figuring out a way to protect themselves from their bases and get something done.

234 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:31:13am

re: #232 RogueOne

since we obviously disagree on most fiscal issues.

What are you talking about, Rogue? I’m pointing out that your post makes no sense as a response to mine. I’m not talking about cutting spending, or increasing taxes, I’m talking about controlling the cost of health care. That is orthogonal to the conversation about whether we need to reduce spending or increase taxes— lowering costs obviates the need for either.

235 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:37:43am

re: #231 aagcobb

Well, they had not developed any sense of unity during the first four score and five years of union, I imagine they would have all seceeded from each other at some point, and then watched as individual counties or regions started seceeding as well, like West Virginia did.

236 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:40:33am

re: #234 Obdicut

What are you talking about, Rogue? I’m pointing out that your post makes no sense as a response to mine. I’m not talking about cutting spending, or increasing taxes, I’m talking about controlling the cost of health care. That is orthogonal to the conversation about whether we need to reduce spending or increase taxes— lowering costs obviates the need for either.

Fine. I think you’re mostly wrong. Happy now?//

The presidents debt commission lays it out nicely:
(PDF) [Link: www.fiscalcommission.gov…]

Huffpo breakdown: [Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]


# Roll discretionary spending back to FY2010 levels for FY2012, requires 1% cut in discretionary budget authority every year from FY2013 though 2015;

# Fully offset the cost of the “Doc Fix” by asking doctors and other health providers, lawyers, and individuals to take responsibility for slowing health care cost growth;

# Reduce farm subsidies by3 billion per year by reducing direct payments and other subsidies;

# Achieve100 billion in Illustrative Defense Cuts;

# Index retirement age for Social security to increases in longevity. “This option is projected to increase the age by one month every two years after it reaches 67 under current law, meaning the normal retirement age would reach 68 in about 2050 and 69 in about 2075.” There will be a “hardship exemption” for those unable to work beyond 62;

# Give retirees the choice of collecting half their benefits early and the other half at a later age to minimize impact of actuarial reduction and support phased retirement options;

# Reduce corporate tax rate to 26% and permanently extend the research credit;

# Gradually increase gas tax to fund transportation spending

and the president seems to finally be willing to embrace their findings:

Obama turns to his bipartisan deficit commission’s blueprint for reducing debt
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com…]

It’s going to take much more than just controlling our health care costs to get our debt levels under control.

237 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:42:12am

re: #231 aagcobb

Good point. One wonders if at some point they would have recognized the sense of unity and unified, as Germany and Italy did in the 19th Century. That’s all just grist for alternative history novels now, though.

It might have taken as long as it did for Germany and Italy, and they discovered their unity only after centuries of pain caused by their disunity. People think WWII did hideous damage to Germany, but it was nothing compared to the Thirty Years War. Half the population of Germany died in that conflict.

It still took them another two centuries to discover, “We must hang together or we shall surely hang separately.”

238 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:43:12am

re: #236 RogueOne

Fine. I think you’re mostly wrong.

How? In what way? I said it was the main cost we need to address. What cost do you think is more important than health care?

I never said it was the only thing we had to do.

Even what you quoted cites controlling health care costs as part of it— did you even bother to read it?

239 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:43:48am

re: #237 Romantic Heretic

And the Balkans continue to prove what happens when you don’t learn the lesson of unity.

240 Political Atheist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:44:25am

re: #234 Obdicut

I just hope we do not see a repeat of “millionaire” rhetoric from the left with proposed tax increases down to $250,000. From the right I expect a cacophony as the Tea Party drowns out the adults in the GOP room.

Some candor and consistency would be very helpful this time around. From both sides obviously.

241 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:44:58am

re: #238 Obdicut

How? In what way? I said it was the main cost we need to address. What cost do you think is more important than health care?

I never said it was the only thing we had to do.

Even what you quoted cites controlling health care costs as part of it— did you even bother to read it?

Which might be why I said….”It’s going to take much more than just controlling our health care costs to get our debt levels under control.”

242 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:45:35am

re: #236 RogueOne

I hate to break this to you, but Obama isn’t basing his plan on the catfood commission (Bowles-Simpson). He’ s not basing his plan on the gang of six, either. And he’s definitely not basing his plan on Paul Ryan’s fantasy rantings. He’s going to pick from the different suggestions what he feels are the best strategies and start there. (Where this goes in negotiation is anyone’s guess).

Okay, good morning, and I’m still sleepy. Must have been all the beer and the Giants’ game last night…time for a little more nap.

243 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:45:44am

Drudge’s big headline this morning: RISE OF NEW WORLD POWER[WITHOUT USA]

244 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:46:03am

re: #241 RogueOne

But since i never said that would be the only thing we had to do, that doesn’t really make any sense either, Rogue.

Again: What cost do you think needs to be addressed more than health care costs?

245 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:46:03am

re: #239 Obdicut

And the Balkans continue to prove what happens when you don’t learn the lesson of unity.

I just hope that the Palestinians continue to not learn the lesson of unity.

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:46:40am

re: #211 Alouette

John Gielgud made the first Arthur palatable.

Dudley Moore was funny (as long as he was playing the SAME EXACT GUY!).

Liza Minnelli? Other than she’s Judy Garland’s daughter? She’s unwatchable. (And that’s all I have to say about that)

247 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:47:54am

re: #242 darthstar

I hate to break this to you, but Obama isn’t basing his plan on the catfood commission (Bowles-Simpson). He’ s not basing his plan on the gang of six, either. And he’s definitely not basing his plan on Paul Ryan’s fantasy rantings. He’s going to pick from the different suggestions what he feels are the best strategies and start there. (Where this goes in negotiation is anyone’s guess).

Okay, good morning, and I’m still sleepy. Must have been all the beer and the Giants’ game last night…time for a little more nap.

I think he’s going to limit it to 2 things, decreases in military spending and raising taxes. Like I said before, no dem running for president is going to suggest cutting social programs. He’ll propose the things that the repubs won’t and the repubs will propose the items the dems won’t. Both need to be done.

248 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:48:13am

re: #245 Alouette

Well, the best natural ally and friend to the Palestinians is Israel. I do hope they learn that lesson of unity.

They’re rather far from it now, though.

249 Political Atheist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:49:09am

re: #236 RogueOne


# Achieve100 billion in Illustrative Defense Cuts;
Out of about 600 billion.
That’s huge. I presume the VA would be untouched.


# Index retirement age for Social security to increases in longevity. “This option is projected to increase the age by one month every two years after it reaches 67 under current law, meaning the normal retirement age would reach 68 in about 2050 and 69 in about 2075.” There will be a “hardship exemption” for those unable to work beyond 62;

That makes a lot of sense to me. But then that “third rail” just powers my Red Line to work. Asa a mere working man I need not fear the boomers electoral wrath.

250 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:51:30am

re: #247 RogueOne

…. Like I said before, no dem running for president is going to suggest cutting social programs…..

Of course, I could be wrong:

Obama pivots, eyes Medicare changes, tax increases
Obama to call for ‘balanced’ effort to reduce deficits, eyes changes in Medicare, tax hikes
[Link: finance.yahoo.com…]

251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:52:28am

re: #249 Rightwingconspirator

There will be a “hardship exemption” for those unable to work beyond 62.

An “exemption board”…

DEATH PANELS!

252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:54:13am

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.

253 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:54:22am

re: #251 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Heh. If we do raise the retirement age, there better be a damn good panel that certifies that guys who’ve done hard physical labor all their lives get to retire earlier than people who’s bodies haven’t endured that sort of abuse.

254 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:55:20am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.

How about a picture of General William T. Sherman

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:55:29am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think Lincoln’s reaction to the flying of the Confederate flag of invading them and subduing them really can’t be improved upon.

Or you can just post the US flag, instead.

256 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:56:48am

Wrongfully convicted NY man wins $6.5M settlement
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]


WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. – A New York man who wrongfully served 16 years in prison has won a $6.5 million settlement.

Jeffrey Deskovic was released from prison in 2006 after DNA linked the 1989 murder of a Peekskill High School classmate to another man.

He was exonerated at age 33.

Deskovic filed a lawsuit in 2007 accusing the police and medical examiner of fabricating evidence that led to his conviction.

And not one dime out of the prosecutors pocket.

257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:57:08am

re: #254 Alouette

Ma’am… Ah ayam a Southernor…

258 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:58:27am

re: #257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ma’am… Ah ayam a Southernor…

How about a picture of an African-American Union soldier?

259 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:58:32am

re: #253 Obdicut

I would expect that it could be arranged based on North American Industry Classification System (NAICS) coding - so that someone who is in a manufacturing or industry like mining, logging, etc. would be subject to the rules as in effect now (or a greatly reduced threshold for benefits). If your job description falls within the NAICS codes for those industries, you are subject to one set of rules, while everyone else would be subject to the new indexed retirement age.

260 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 6:59:27am

re: #257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ma’am… Ah ayam a Southernor…

I told Raine MO is southern and she was skeptical. We are quite a bit. Southern in a rural, squirrel eating kind of way.

261 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:00:33am

Minor update:

Ky. parents: TSA frisked our 6-year-old daughter
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]


Selena Drexel told ABC’s “Good Morning America” Wednesday the family was returning home from a vacation earlier this month when their daughter Anna was selected for a pat-down.

The couple posted a video of the search on YouTube.

The girl’s father, Todd Drexel, says Anna was confused by the search and started crying afterward because she thought she’d done something wrong.

262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:00:41am

re: #258 Alouette

How about a picture of an African-American Union soldier?

I’ve got it! I’ll post the Confederate Jewish Cemetery site.

263 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:02:04am

re: #258 Alouette

Better yet, Robert Gould Shaw and the 54th Mass. Infantry

Image: RGS_2.jpg

264 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:02:13am

re: #249 Rightwingconspirator

# Achieve100 billion in Illustrative Defense Cuts;
Out of about 600 billion.
That’s huge. I presume the VA would be untouched.


.

VA? That is the first thing they will try to nickel and dime to death.

And they are learning that it is cheaper to pay off the life insurance for a dead vet than to maintin treatment and therapy for wounded vet, and thanks to advances in medicine and in body armor, more wounded soldiers are surviving…

265 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:02:14am

re: #262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’ve got it! I’ll post the Confederate Jewish Cemetery site.

That’s very cool.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:04:03am

re: #265 Alouette

Yes, it is. Thank you.

267 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:04:46am

Here is the post for your FB site, taken from Stogun’s Civil War Page:

“I am a Southerner by birth and a rebel by choice. As I read and study, I pull for Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet. As I live, I thank Grant, Lincoln, and Democracy”

268 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:05:38am

Meanwhile, the NY serial killer(s) case has taken an unexpected turn. I think we’re dealing with at least two, if not three killers - two of which are serial killers.

Several of the remains are too old to be counted as part of the Craigslist killings, and may be tied back to notorious serial killer Joel Rifkin. Yet, there are several remains that don’t fall into either the Craigslist killings or the older remains. They are those of a young child and a male, which suggests that we’re talking about at least 2 serial killers and at least one other killer.

The saddest part is that the disappearance of Shannan Gilbert who sparked the initial investigations that led to the discovery of bodies back in December still hasn’t been found.

So, we might get closure on several cold cases, but revealed the killing fields of at least two other murderers.

269 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:06:04am

re: #267 ralphieboy

Attribute to?…

270 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:06:05am

Morning all!

How’s life?

271 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:06:38am

re: #262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maybe post this.

[Link: www.history.umd.edu…]

It’s Jefferson Davis’s order for every captured black Union soldier to be executed, along with their white officers.

Because the CSA atrocity.

272 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:06:39am

re: #258 Alouette

How about a picture of an African-American Union soldier?

Here’s a few civil war propaganda posters:
[Link: civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com…]

Image: ac03297v1.jpg

273 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:07:20am

re: #271 Obdicut

Because the CSA was an atrocity.

Fixed that for myself.

274 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:08:14am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.

I’d be mean.

275 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:09:00am

re: #272 RogueOne

Here’s a few civil war propaganda posters:
[Link: civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com…]

Image: ac03297v1.jpg

The Zouave uniforms were fabulous.

276 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:09:17am

I was looking at my twitter feed, and one of Sandmonkey’s followers decided to quote a Coldplay song, and tweeted to him:

Revolutionaries wait, for my head on a silver plate. *nods* RT @Sandmonkey The Song of Mubarak: [Link: ow.ly…] #MubaraksPlaylist

Fitting the whole situation.

277 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:09:51am

re: #275 Alouette

The Zouave uniforms were fabulous.

That guy looks confused as to which Civil War he’s supposed to be involved in.

278 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:10:32am

re: #277 RogueOne

But his unit was FABULOUS!

279 wee fury  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:10:50am

History.
Good for playacting.
To many, it is only a word.

280 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:11:57am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.


I see it as a backed into the corner type of response. “Hell no, I’m not gonna feel bad about it!”

281 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:13:10am

I couldn’t remember where I had seen a whole list of civil war posters, turns out it was Time:

Rousing Civil War Posters
[Link: www.life.com…]

282 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:13:37am

re: #281 RogueOne

err, life! Same thing.//

283 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:17:15am

gotta go,

Have a great day!

284 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:18:23am

re: #269 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Attribute to?…


Taken from Shotgun’s Civil War Page

[Link: www.civilwarhome.com…]

attributable to Shotgun himself.

285 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:18:25am

Immigration bill faces shift
[Link: www.indystar.com…]


Gov. Mitch Daniels said Tuesday that he expects a bill cracking down on illegal immigration to be moderated to focus more on employers and less on law enforcement.

Senate Bill 590, as passed by the Senate earlier this session, would have made Indiana the second state in the nation after Arizona to put immigration enforcement in the hands of local law enforcement. But opposition has stiffened, and with Daniels now speaking out against it, the proposal likely is to undergo major surgery in a House committee Thursday.

“I think that legislation will be changed,” Daniels said in a wide-ranging interview with The Indianapolis Star Editorial Board. “I support this, to drop the law enforcement provisions that have been the ones that have bothered most people.”

286 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:20:56am

re: #271 Obdicut

Maybe post this.

[Link: www.history.umd.edu…]

It’s Jefferson Davis’s order for every captured black Union soldier to be executed, along with their white officers.

Because the CSA atrocity.

How about a photo of a prisoner from Andersonville?

287 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:24:02am

re: #286 ralphieboy

How about a photo of a prisoner from Andersonville?

Elmyra and Ft. Douglas were just as bad as Andersonville, maybe even worse because they didn’t have the excuse of food shortages.

288 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:24:05am

re: #286 ralphieboy

How about a photo of a prisoner from Andersonville?

I don’t think either side was free from atrocities.

289 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:26:05am

In new protest, Syrian women block main highway
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]


BEIRUT – Thousands of Syrian women and children holding white flags and olive branches blocked a main coastal highway Wednesday, demanding authorities release detainees picked up during a crackdown on opponents of President Bashar Assad’s authoritarian regime, witnesses said.

The crowd — unusual because it was dominated by women and young children — demanded the release of hundreds of men who have been rounded up in the northeastern villages of Bayda and Beit Jnad and surrounding areas in recent days.

“We will not be humiliated!” the crowd shouted Wednesday, according to witnesses who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals. They were gathering along the main road between the coastal cities of Tartous and Banias.

This is cool news but I have to wonder how accurate the description is if no one saw it but unnamed witnesses.

290 celticdragon  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:27:00am

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

The Mau Mau revolt was a bad thing, just not for the reasons some think. It wasn’t bad because it was black men revolting against white men, but because the Mau Mau’s were brutal and tyrannous in their own right. They were vicious and destructive and their suppression was a good thing, on the whole.

The suppression of the Mau Mau involved a series of war crimes that included institutionalized rape, castration of male prisoners and mass killings that bordered on genocidal.

One horrific day in September 1957, Ndiku Mutwiwa Mutua claims, he was castrated by the British Government.

Last week the elderly Kenyan appeared in the High Court in London, along with three others to accuse Britain of being liable for what was done to him 54 years ago, and to demand compensation.

The case of Mutua and others versus the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) relates to events that took place at the height of the Mau Mau emergency — the uprising against colonial rule in Kenya between 1952 and 1960.

The Mau Mau rebellion was one of the nastiest chapters in British colonial history. Appalling atrocities were perpetrated by both sides, but few stories of cruelty are worse than that of Mr Ndiku Mutwiwa Mutua.

In 1956 Mr Mutua was a 24-year-old herdsman working for Mr Louvaine Dunman, a white settler in Kenya’s Eastern Province. Mr Dunman, a police officer in the district force, was known as “Luvai” among the Kamba people who couldn’t pronounce the name Louvaine properly.

While working on Mr Dunman’s farm, Mr Mutua began supplying food to the Mau Mau rebels hiding out in the nearby forest. On or before September 17, 1957, he was arrested by Mr Dunman and five other African police officers.

According to a court document, he was repeatedly beaten by European and African officers alike and then taken, blindfolded, to a tent.

Inside, he was allegedly handcuffed and pinned to the ground, with his legs pulled apart and tied or strapped down.

“Having been rendered completely powerless and vulnerable,” according to the document, Mr Mutua claims that he was “castrated by one or more of the officers present.”

For two days he was allegedly left without medical attention and then liberated from the camp by Mau Mau rebels. He remained in the forest for three-and-a-half years before the rebellion ended and he returned home.

Like his fellow claimants, Mr Mutua holds the British Government responsible for his suffering. Another of the plaintiffs also claims to have been castrated, while a third was allegedly beaten and left for dead during the infamous Hola Camp massacre of 1959 in which 11 detainees were clubbed to death.

The only woman claimant said that she was subjected to sexual torture in which she was violated using bottles filled with hot water.

The alleged mistreatment of another claimant, Mr Wambugu wa Nyingi, carries echoes of waterboarding. Mr Nyingi claims that he was “suspended by his feet from the hut roof. He was then subjected to a severe beating over a period of about 30 minutes, while cold water was poured on to his face and into his mouth so he could not breathe.”

The claimants’ case rests on the argument that these acts of brutality were not isolated or random, the spontaneous cruelty of a few sadists, but a systematic policy organised and condoned by the British authorities, “part of a system of torture, inhuman and degrading treatment applied by police, home guards, and other members of the security services with the knowledge of the colonial administration.

291 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:27:11am

re: #288 prairiefire

I don’t think either side was free from atrocities.


No, but Andersonville and the other Confederate prison camps were a case in point: there was a prisoner exchange program between North and South up to the point of the For Pillow Massacre in which General Forrest’s men massacred the black soliders they took prisoner there.

The North cancelled the exchange program in protest of such barbarity, and the number of prisoners swelled beyond the South’s ability to maintain them.

And General Forrest went on after the war to become a founding member of the KKK, although he later distanced himself from it as it grew more brutal.

292 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:28:35am

AP Exclusive: FBI thought Demjanjuk evidence faked
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]


BERLIN – An FBI report kept secret for 25 years said the Soviet Union “quite likely fabricated” evidence central to the prosecution of John Demjanjuk — a revelation that could help the defense as closing arguments resume Wednesday in the retired Ohio auto worker’s Nazi war crimes trial in Germany.

The newly declassified FBI field office report, obtained by The Associated Press, casts doubt on the authenticity of a Nazi ID card that is the key piece of evidence in allegations that Demjanjuk served as a guard at the Sobibor death camp in occupied Poland.

Throughout three decades of U.S. hearings, an extradition, a death sentence followed by acquittal in Israel, a deportation and now a trial in Munich, the arguments have relied heavily on the photo ID from an SS training camp that indicates Demjanjuk was sent to Sobibor.

Claims that the card and other evidence against Demjanjuk are Soviet forgeries have repeatedly been made by Demjanjuk’s defense attorneys. However, the FBI report provides the first known confirmation that American investigators had similar doubts.

Wow.

293 aagcobb  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:30:02am

re: #253 Obdicut

Heh. If we do raise the retirement age, there better be a damn good panel that certifies that guys who’ve done hard physical labor all their lives get to retire earlier than people who’s bodies haven’t endured that sort of abuse.

There is no reason to raise the retirement age. Just impose payroll taxes on incomes above the current ceiling, and social security will be fine.

294 celticdragon  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:30:20am

re: #292 RogueOne

AP Exclusive: FBI thought Demjanjuk evidence faked
[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

Wow.

That admission alone by the FBI should sink any prosecution.

295 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:32:19am

re: #294 celticdragon

That admission alone by the FBI should sink any prosecution.

I think it’s pretty damning that they kept this a secret for 30 years.

296 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:33:45am

Trinidad Scorpion Butch T named world’s hottest pepper.

While I enjoy spicy food, just one serrano is enough for me. Anything more than that and you can’t even taste the food any more!

Not to mention what happens at the other end.

297 celticdragon  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:36:53am

re: #296 Alouette

Trinidad Scorpion Butch T named world’s hottest pepper.

While I enjoy spicy food, just one serrano is enough for me. Anything more than that and you can’t even taste the food any more!

Not to mention what happens at the other end.

My spouse made an offhand comment about “crapping fire” after eating a spicy Thai dish and I have been playing with the phrase ever since. Too much fun to be had!

298 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:38:17am

re: #297 celticdragon

Who does he think he is? William Wallace? /

299 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:38:21am

Ring of Fire

300 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:39:35am

Work to do. Enjoy the day folks.

301 Lidane  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:40:07am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.

Find a quote about being focused on the future instead of the past and post it as a status update.

302 celticdragon  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:40:40am

re: #295 RogueOne

I think it’s pretty damning that they kept this a secret for 30 years.

The unaccountable national security state with secrets piled upon secrets is one of the more damnable legacies of World War 2.

We defeated Nazi Germany, and then proceeded to incorporate an unhealthy dose of the paranoia, compartmentalization, bizarre redundancies and unaccountability that pervaded the Nazi government.

It does not work well in what is supposed to be an open and free society.

303 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:45:16am

re: #292 RogueOne

Now, one has to wonder why the Soviets apparently forged the ID, and why the FBI withheld that information for decades. What exactly was the FBI hiding - and why did the Soviets take this tact? Something smells rotten in all of this.

304 Lidane  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:50:18am

re: #296 Alouette

Trinidad Scorpion Butch T named world’s hottest pepper.

While I enjoy spicy food, just one serrano is enough for me. Anything more than that and you can’t even taste the food any more!

Not to mention what happens at the other end.

There’s a point where spice goes from enhancing the taste of food to being stupid. I like a good spicy dish now and then, but I’m not going to get anything that makes my head explode.

305 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 7:57:14am

re: #304 Lidane

There’s a point where spice goes from enhancing the taste of food to being stupid. I like a good spicy dish now and then, but I’m not going to get anything that makes my head explode.

It seems to be a demonstration of manliness. And in addition to making your head explode, it also makes your other end explode.

306 recusancy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:01:56am

Jim Inhofe gave a 30 minute speech on the senate floor on how Ivory Coast’s Gbagbo is really a good man and he really didn’t commit all those atrocities. WTF!? He blames everything, of course, on the UN and France.
[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

307 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:07:17am

re: #306 recusancy

France and the UN do have a long list of wrongdoing in the former French colonial empire and failing to stop atrocities, but their actions in the Ivory Coast are not at fault here.

The problems in the Ivory Coast at present are the result of no one other than Gbagbo’s refusal to step down after losing national elections last November. The UN and France supported Ouattara and his efforts to rightfully assume the office of president that he won in those November elections.

BTW, new video was released showing Gbagbo’s capture - and it shows that the French were not involved in the capture.

309 Political Atheist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:14:08am

re: #253 Obdicut

Haven’t those numbers gone up too? Those guys already had a shorter career then office executives when s/s was set up all those decades ago.

310 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:21:10am

re: #308 lawhawk

CNN gives Ed Morrissey (of Hot Air) a platform on which to slam Trump.


I applaud Ed for noticing that the Trump freakshow is stupid and bad for Republicans. Hot Air has avoided the Birther stuff but they have also peddled every bogus Brietbart/O’Keefe video. bogus polls from Rasmussen, Bogus statistics from the Heritage Inst and Cato, and never denounced Glenn Beck or 9-11 truthers on Fox.Hot Air has done its fair share to keep the Republican base ignorant, crazy and stupid. It’s a little late to start complaining about the opportunists who come in to take advantage of the misinformed wingnuts.

311 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:23:06am

re: #310 Killgore Trout

And he looks like he waxes his dome.

312 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:23:36am

Morning Honcos.

313 recusancy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:24:55am

re: #310 Killgore Trout

I applaud Ed for noticing that the Trump freakshow is stupid and bad for Republicans. Hot Air has avoided the Birther stuff but they have also peddled every bogus Brietbart/O’Keefe video. bogus polls from Rasmussen, Bogus statistics from the Heritage Inst and Cato, and never denounced Glenn Beck or 9-11 truthers on Fox.Hot Air has done its fair share to keep the Republican base ignorant, crazy and stupid. It’s a little late to start complaining about the opportunists who come in to take advantage of the misinformed wingnuts.

That’s the problem. The bar is set so low that anybody who isn’t a birther is deemed “serious” and moderate.

314 recusancy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:26:32am

re: #312 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

What is a Honco?

315 recusancy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:27:05am

re: #313 recusancy

That’s the problem. The bar is set so low that anybody who isn’t a birther is deemed “serious” and moderate.

also: [Link: www.balloon-juice.com…]

316 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:27:51am

re: #314 recusancy

What is a Honco?

Charles once received email from a “fan” calling him a “Zionist honco”

317 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:28:30am

re: #313 recusancy

That’s the problem. The bar is set so low that anybody who isn’t a birther is deemed “serious” and moderate.

Good point. Ed also fails to notice that the rest of the Republican pack of candidates is fairly unelectable. Palin, Trump, Bachmann, Ron/Rand Paul are the bottom of a very shallow barrel. That’s a very serious problem.

318 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:28:39am

re: #314 recusancy

What is a Honco?

It’s like a honcho, but has become CCA’s signature good morning call. I think it started as a typo.

319 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:28:45am

re: #315 recusancy

also: [Link: www.balloon-juice.com…]

yay Balloon Juice!

I don’t know why he is even wasting his breath. The same people who think that Barack Obama is a Kenyan muslim non-citizen also think that Mitt Romney belongs to a cult. They aren’t going to listen to him, they aren’t going to vote for him, and no matter what you do, they are going to be convinced they are doing the work of Jeebus while the corporate wing of the GOP continues to rob them blind. Thomas Frank could write a book “What’s the Matter with These Morons” and he would be talking about them.

320 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:29:07am

re: #316 Alouette

Charles once received email from a “fan” calling him a “Zionist honco”

Even better! Ha!

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:29:10am

re: #314 recusancy

What is a Honco?

A misspelling for Honcho. Kinda like Stan is actually Satan.

322 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:29:56am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

A misspelling for Honcho. Kinda like Stan is actually Satan.

Stan is my god.

Good to see you, CCA…how the hell are ya?

323 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:30:20am

re: #315 recusancy

also: [Link: www.balloon-juice.com…]

From the link…

Maybe Romney is calculating this will get him some credibility with important people like… the Politico and the rest of the Beltway media. As we have just learned, the bar for seriousness is incredibly low. Just last week, Ryan proposed cutting taxes on the rich and paying for them by ending Medicare and Medicaid and was met with starry eyed fanbois throwing their panties at him, so maybe all you need to do to be considered serious with these clowns is to acknowledge Obama is American.


Heh.

324 Talking Point Detective  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:30:32am

Someone forgot to tell Andrew H. Stephen, the vice-President of the Confederacy, that the Civil War wasn’t about racism:


Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind—from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just—but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.
325 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:31:38am

re: #322 darthstar

Stan is my god.

Good to see you, CCA…how the hell are ya?

Correction: Satin is my god. Though these 1000 thread count sheets my wife got for our new king size bed are pretty good.

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:31:48am

re: #322 darthstar

Stan is my god.

Good to see you, CCA…how the hell are ya?

I fucked up downloading pics to my computer. Was gonna sell some junk out of the house for beer money. Maybe tomorrow.

327 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:33:43am

re: #296 Alouette

Trinidad Scorpion Butch T named world’s hottest pepper.

While I enjoy spicy food, just one serrano is enough for me. Anything more than that and you can’t even taste the food any more!

Not to mention what happens at the other end.

re: #305 Alouette

It seems to be a demonstration of manliness. And in addition to making your head explode, it also makes your other end explode.

Humbug.

328 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:33:44am

re: #325 darthstar

Correction: Satin is my god. Though these 1000 thread count sheets my wife got for our new king size bed are pretty good.

I had silk sheets. They burn pretty quick when a cigarette is dropped on them.:(

329 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:34:25am

re: #247 RogueOne

I think he’s going to limit it to 2 things, decreases in military spending and raising taxes. Like I said before, no dem running for president is going to suggest cutting social programs. He’ll propose the things that the repubs won’t and the repubs will propose the items the dems won’t. Both need to be done.

I could live with those two proposals. A tax increase and some defense cuts. Just getting out of Iraq would be helpful.

330 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:35:26am

re: #328 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had silk sheets. They burn pretty quick when a cigarette is dropped on them.:(

I like cotton. Well made cotton sheets are as luxurious as they come.

331 blueraven  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:35:50am

If I were of conspiratorial mind, I would almost think Trump is working to get Obama re-elected. His claim that if he doesn’t win the GOP nomination he would run as an independent, would surely seal the deal.

332 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:36:07am

re: #330 darthstar

I like cotton. Well made cotton sheets are as luxurious as they come.

I now have Martha Stewart sheets. Very nice. And I hate her.

333 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:36:33am

re: #331 blueraven

Splitter!

334 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:36:46am

re: #331 blueraven

If I were of conspiratorial mind, I would almost think Trump is working to get Obama re-elected. His claim that if he doesn’t win the GOP nomination he would run as an independent, would surely seal the deal.

He is no Ross Perot. Never thought I would say those words.

335 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:37:08am

re: #222 RogueOne

First, the whole “do nothing” plan is out the window. The president is going to give his vision for reducing the debt later today.

Second, Slate does a nice job of cherry-picking numbers and conflating debt with deficit. According to the CBO our debt will reach almost 70% of GDP at the end of the decade and even with the “extreme cuts” in the Ryan plan the debt still goes up.

If our budget balances (including service on the debt) why do we care about debt as a % of GDP? Assuming that the debt service isn’t crushing us, why would that be something we would build a budget around?

336 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:37:09am

re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar

Can’t stand her, but her baking/cookies cookbooks are quite good and easy to follow for the mrs.

337 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:37:25am

Lately the discussion of the Civil War has gone from “It was not all about slavery” to “It was not about slavery at all”.

The former is true: there were other issues, but it is impossible to overlook the role of slavery without being truly ignorant and ideologically blindered.

338 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:38:38am

re: #331 blueraven

If I were of conspiratorial mind, I would almost think Trump is working to get Obama re-elected. His claim that if he doesn’t win the GOP nomination he would run as an independent, would surely seal the deal.

I thought of that too There is some speculation about that. Th Pac that’s helping to promote him has strong liberal ties and his past political donations are pretty left leaning. If it is a lefty political trick it’s working brilliantly.

339 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:39:57am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

I thought of that too There is some speculation about that. Th Pac that’s helping to promote him has strong liberal ties and his past political donations are pretty left leaning. If it is a lefty political trick it’s working brilliantly.

Lefty political tricks never work brilliantly; ergo, this is not a lefty trick. /

340 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:44:25am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.

How about a picture of a slave ship?

341 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:45:00am

I’m noticing the news of the PA being given a green light to a point by the UN. I feel conflicted. It’s progress, but not the type of solution I wanted. Again, I see Isreal-Palestine as 2nd fiddle in the Middle East

343 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:47:18am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

I thought of that too There is some speculation about that. Th Pac that’s helping to promote him has strong liberal ties and his past political donations are pretty left leaning. If it is a lefty political trick it’s working brilliantly.

Donald Trump is

“Pro-choice, but ban partial birth abortion. (Jul 2000) “

Would
” prosecute hate crimes against gays. (Jul 2000) “

Is

“For assault weapon ban, waiting period, & background check.”

Says that

“We must have universal health care. (Jul 2000) “

Opposes
” flat tax; benefits wealthy too much. (Jul 2000)”

[Link: www.issues2000.org…]

Granted there was some conservative stuff also, but either he’s changed a lot int he last 10 years, or he’s yanking the GOP’s chain….

Also he hand wrote a letter to Nancy Pelosi praising her.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

344 recusancy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:47:26am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trying to think of a response to Facebook friends who have changed their profile pictures to Confederate flags today.

Don’t want to be too mean, but I do want to be pointed.

Ask them why they hate America. Why post a the symbol of a traitor to your country? Never mind that they were traitors and seceded over the sole evil of slavery.

345 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:49:00am

re: #343 jamesfirecat

He’s an opportunist. I think he just sees that the GOP base, right now, doesn’t care about the actually attributes of people. They care about what you’re willing to say.

It’s like pro wrestling. It’s kayfabe. Yesterday’s hero can become today’s villain and vice versa.

346 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:49:12am

More Imhofe weirdness:

He landed his plane on a closed runway, nearly hitting construction vehicles.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Strange dude. Hates science, but relies on it to get around.

347 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:50:32am

re: #343 jamesfirecat

Donald Trump is

“Pro-choice, but ban partial birth abortion. (Jul 2000) “

Would
” prosecute hate crimes against gays. (Jul 2000) “

Is

“For assault weapon ban, waiting period, & background check.”

Says that

“We must have universal health care. (Jul 2000) “

Opposes
” flat tax; benefits wealthy too much. (Jul 2000)”

[Link: www.issues2000.org…]

Granted there was some conservative stuff also, but either he’s changed a lot int he last 10 years, or he’s yanking the GOP’s chain…

Also he hand wrote a letter to Nancy Pelosi praising her.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

Something I know from the world of business: there is nothing so worthless as Donald Trump’s signature on a term sheet. The man’s word is worthless. Until you have his money in your hand, you do not have a deal. Ever.

348 recusancy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:50:46am

re: #346 garhighway

More Imhofe weirdness:

He landed his plane on a closed runway, nearly hitting construction vehicles.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Strange dude. Hates science, but relies on it to get around.

He also relies on it to see.

349 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:51:11am

Another thing we really need to do:


We need to replace the income cap on Roth converters. Though much of that revenue is just lost forever.

350 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:51:27am

re: #346 garhighway

More Imhofe weirdness:

He landed his plane on a closed runway, nearly hitting construction vehicles.

[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

Strange dude. Hates science, but relies on it to get around.

Intelligent floating.

re: #348 recusancy

He also relies on it to see.

Intelligent glass.

Next!

351 garhighway  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:51:27am

re: #348 recusancy

He also relies on it to see.

What a commie.

352 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:52:56am

re: #342 Varek Raith

In other words, he’s whining over the fact that the liberal media reporting accurately what the GOP nutters are professing - whether its Trump, Palin, or anyone else who is pushing the Birther nonsense.

353 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:53:13am

re: #343 jamesfirecat

Granted there was some conservative stuff also, but either he’s changed a lot int he last 10 years, or he’s yanking the GOP’s chain…

]

Ever since the neocons lost control of the party, the GOP has put on a collar and chain with a big “Yank me!” sign on it…

354 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:54:05am

re: #353 ralphieboy

Ever since the neocons lost control of the party, the GOP has put on a collar and chain with a big “Yank me!” sign on it…

More like “Yankee Go Home” if you ask me.

355 zora  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:54:10am

re: #343 jamesfirecat

[Link: ncronline.org…]

Donald Trump is Now Pro-Life?

[Link: www.cbn.com…]

Donald Trump to CBN News: ‘I’m Pro-Life’

“One thing about me, I’m a very honorable guy. I’m pro-life, but I changed my view a number of years ago,” Trump said. “One of the reasons I changed — one of the primary reasons — a friend of mine’s wife was pregnant, in this case married. She was pregnant and he didn’t really want the baby. And he was telling me the story.”

“He was crying as he was telling me the story. He ends up having the baby and the baby is the apple of his eye,” he explained. “It’s the greatest thing that’s ever happened to him.”

“And you know here’s a baby that wasn’t going to be let into life,” he added. “And I heard this, and some other stories, and I am pro-life.”

donald trump is pro-donald.

356 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:54:27am

Hey LH, is registering a trademark hard? Looks easy on Legalzoom.com.

357 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:54:54am

re: #353 ralphieboy

Ever since the neocons lost control of the party, the GOP has put on a collar and chain with a big “Yank me!” sign on it…

358 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:57:26am

re: #349 Obdicut

The Atlantic had an article that the owners of Roth IRAs may be in for a rude awakening down the road as the need for tax revenues strikes them - and imposes surtaxes of one form or another.

I put chances of imposing that kind of surtax as extremely low, precisely because so many people opened Roths or converted to Roths as a tax and estate planning option. The idea is that income is taxed initially, but when you seek withdrawals from the IRA (when you are of retirement age) those withdrawals are tax free.

359 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:57:40am

re: #355 zora

[Link: ncronline.org…]

Donald Trump is Now Pro-Life?

[Link: www.cbn.com…]

Donald Trump to CBN News: ‘I’m Pro-Life’

donald trump is pro-donald.

Further proof that Donald’s Hair is sentient. Only explanation for the flip flopping. Yep.

360 lawhawk  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 8:59:01am

re: #356 Cannadian Club Akbar

It’s pretty straight forward. The tough part is doing a trademark search to see if someone else has filed a similar trademark.

361 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:01:56am

re: #360 lawhawk

It’s pretty straight forward. The tough part is doing a trademark search to see if someone else has filed a similar trademark.

I think Legalzoom wanted $169 to do a search. But if I can to it so be it. Would that include the words and the artwork?

362 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:03:45am

The latest Wingnut/Drudge.Alex Jones outrageous outrage against airport security is bogus….
Screening of 6 Year-Old at MSY

A video taken of one of our officers patting down a six year-old has attracted quite a bit of attention. Some folks are asking if the proper procedures were followed. Yes. TSA has reviewed the incident and the security officer in the video followed the current standard operating procedures.

363 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:06:49am

re: #362 Killgore Trout

The latest Wingnut/Drudge.Alex Jones outrageous outrage against airport security is bogus…
Screening of 6 Year-Old at MSY

Er… what part of this video is bogus?

364 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:07:16am

re: #178 RIRedinPA

46% in Mississippi think interracial marriage should be illegal. Nuff said on that I think.

That poll was of Mississippi Republicans, to be precise.

Also, another 14% in that poll said they “aren’t sure”. In my book, if you aren’t sure if interracial marriage should be illegal, that pretty much makes you a huge racist. That’s 60% of Mississippi Republicans, at an absolute minimum, that are extremely racist. I don’t think i’m going out on a limb here in saying that Mississippi is unique in this respect.

The GOP is rotten to the core.

365 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:07:21am

re: #332 Cannadian Club Akbar

I now have Martha Stewart sheets. Very nice. And I hate her.

How much “designer” goes into a rectangle of fabric?

366 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:07:48am

re: #363 Walter L. Newton

Er… what part of this video is bogus?

The outrage is bogus. don’t be a dick, I’m not in the mood.

367 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:08:24am

re: #365 darthstar

How much “designer” goes into a rectangle of fabric?

Dude, she’s a convict, she’ll kick you ass. Watch it!!

368 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:09:15am

re: #364 Fozzie Bear

PIMF…

That poll was of Mississippi Republicans, to be precise.

Also, another 14% in that poll said they “aren’t sure”. In my book, if you aren’t sure if interracial marriage should be illegal, that pretty much makes you a huge racist. That’s 60% of Mississippi Republicans, at an absolute minimum, that are extremely racist. I don’t think i’m going out on a limb here in saying that Mississippi is NOT unique in this respect.

369 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:09:37am

re: #366 Killgore Trout

The outrage is bogus. don’t be a dick, I’m not in the mood.

I simply asked a question.

370 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:11:05am

re: #359 Varek Raith

Further proof that Donald’s Hair is sentient. Only explanation for the flip flopping. Yep.

The anti-choice fucktards Trump is reaching out to don’t care if a politician is actually pro-choice or not. They just like to hear politicians say that they’re against abortion as their most recent position on the issue. Everyone can be redeemed, after all.

371 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:11:50am

re: #369 Walter L. Newton

I simply asked a question.

372 blueraven  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:13:24am

re: #355 zora

[Link: ncronline.org…]

Donald Trump is Now Pro-Life?

[Link: www.cbn.com…]

Donald Trump to CBN News: ‘I’m Pro-Life’

donald trump is pro-donald.

Oh really? That is what it took to change his position? This happens thousands of time a day. What of the poor unwed mother, or the couple faced with overwhelming issues and a 4th child on the way?

When I got pregnant with my second child as my first was barely a toddler, I briefly considered if I really wanted to go through this again. My first was a difficult pregnancy and delivery and I was already 38. Though I said nothing to my husband, he came to me one day and said, “look, this is your decision and I will support you”. This simple intuitive expression of love and support snapped me right out of it. My son was born healthy without any problems. And of course he is the light of my life as is my daughter. We made our decision and it was personal. I would never try to make that decision for others.

373 darthstar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:13:27am

re: #367 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude, she’s a convict, she’ll kick you ass. Watch it!!

“This is a shiv. After gut-stabbing your victim it should be hidden from the guards. I find a cozy made of a light floral patterned fabric works well for this, and it also helps brighten up the cell…the stems of the flowers almost blend with the bars if you hold it just right. The guards will never find your weapon.”

374 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:14:41am

re: #371 Fozzie Bear

[Link: www.southparkstudios.com…]

I don’t watch South Park… it is foul and immoral.

375 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:15:46am

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

I don’t watch South Park… it is foul and immoral.

I love South Park. It’s my favorite show.

376 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:17:05am

re: #373 darthstar

“This is a shiv. After gut-stabbing your victim it should be hidden from the guards. I find a cozy made of a light floral patterned fabric works well for this, and it also helps brighten up the cell…the stems of the flowers almost blend with the bars if you hold it just right. The guards will never find your weapon.”

Well played, sir.

377 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:17:13am

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

I don’t watch South Park… it is foul and immoral.

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that stick lodged in your ass was causing you so much discomfort.

378 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:17:53am

re: #377 Fozzie Bear

I’m sorry. I didn’t realize that stick lodged in your ass was causing you so much discomfort.

It is… thank you for caring.

379 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:18:29am

Alrighty kids, I gotta run. See ya’ll tomorrow.:)

380 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:18:35am

There is no sudden rise in teh Confederacy thinking in Murica! Maddow is just engaged in faux reporting!

Eleventy!

//

381 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:24:33am

re: #380 Gus 802

There is no sudden rise in teh Confederacy thinking in Murica! Maddow is just engaged in faux reporting!

Eleventy!

//

Good morning to you too! (afternoon here)

382 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:24:59am

re: #378 Walter L. Newton

It is… thank you for caring.

I feel for the plight of sticks everywhere. It’s just what I do.

383 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:25:47am

re: #381 iceweasel

Good morning to you too! (afternoon here)

Good to catch you again. I’m bummed I missed out on the thread you posted about the douche objectivist father. That was a great read.

384 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:26:59am

re: #381 iceweasel

Good morning to you too! (afternoon here)

Hey Ice. Yeah, another morning in Murica! Why that’s all I’ve been thinking about these days: the TSA! LOL Anywho. Barely got up from the futon.

385 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:27:44am

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

Good to catch you again. I’m bummed I missed out on the thread you posted about the douche objectivist father. That was a great read.

Oh yeah, I loved that piece. Sorry to miss you there! it’s still on the right hand column under most tweeted, so we could make it active again pretty easily….I thought it was a great piece. Good to see you! What’s shaking?

386 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:28:41am

re: #385 iceweasel

Oh yeah, I loved that piece. Sorry to miss you there! it’s still on the right hand column under most tweeted, so we could make it active again pretty easily…I thought it was a great piece. Good to see you! What’s shaking?

Left side column. Left! How could I get that wrong, lol.

re: #384 Gus 802

Hey Ice. Yeah, another morning in Murica! Why that’s all I’ve been thinking about these days: the TSA! LOL Anywho. Barely got up from the futon.

Coffee is what you need.

387 Lidane  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:28:41am

re: #375 Alouette

I love South Park. It’s my favorite show.

South Park is awesome. They have had some misfires, but when they’re on point, they’re brutally funny.

388 blueraven  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:29:17am

Boy the GOP leadership, Boehner and Cantor, are really trying to get ahead of the Presidents speech today. They have already come out several times today in front of the press declaring emphatically that they wont accept any tax increases.

They might have boxed themselves in a bit, with all the medicare and medicaid cuts while advocating even more tax cuts for the wealthy. They seem a little nervous.

389 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:29:24am

re: #386 iceweasel

Left side column. Left! How could I get that wrong, lol.

re: #384 Gus 802

Coffee is what you need.

I’m drinking some now. I just need some WD-40 for the bones.

390 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:30:28am

re: #380 Gus 802

There is no sudden rise in teh Confederacy thinking in Murica! Maddow is just engaged in faux reporting!

Eleventy!

//

Well… You know it’s all about the Constitution or something.

It’s been a rough week for me. The cuts to science and environmental protections in the Dunkirk like “compromise” budget, that our weak and pusillanimous president is congratulating himself over (along with other spineless Dems) as a “victory” have me feeling the urge to see politicians forced to bathe in a runoff stream from a fracking site.

We could then chronicle their organ failure and brain deterioration over the next year as a deterrent to self serving magical thinking.

391 webevintage  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:31:00am

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

I don’t watch South Park… it is foul and immoral.

best social & political satire ever is what it is….

392 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:31:55am
393 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:32:04am

re: #388 blueraven

They might have boxed themselves in a bit, with all the medicare and medicaid cuts while advocating even more tax cuts for the wealthy. They seem a little nervous.

It sure seems they’re digging a huge hole for themselves. Attacking AARP isn’t going to help them much.

394 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:33:08am

re: #385 iceweasel

Oh yeah, I loved that piece. Sorry to miss you there! it’s still on the right hand column under most tweeted, so we could make it active again pretty easily…I thought it was a great piece. Good to see you! What’s shaking?

Sure, I’ll post a comment.

395 blueraven  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:34:18am

re: #392 Varek Raith

Jon Kyl bought a SodaStream so he could drink *carbonated* tears of the poor. #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement

heh

396 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:34:44am

re: #391 webevintage

best social & political satire ever is what it is…

My comment was a bit of sarcasm, a joke. It’s one of the most watched shows in this house, and we don’t watch that much TV. Do most of it on Netflix streaming.

397 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:35:00am

Could Texas turn blue?
AARP: TX Seniors Face Dire Cuts to Long-Term Care

Many Texas seniors will be hit hard if the state Senate Finance Committee can’t find a way this week to restore funding to long-term care programs.

Under the budget already passed by the House, seniors now getting in-home care could be forced into nursing homes, says Trey Berndt, AARP of Texas’ associate state director for advocacy. At the same time, he says, nursing homes could be forced to reduce their quality of care - or shut their doors entirely.

“I don’t think most Texans understand the dire impact of what’s really at stake here. I know Texans are concerned about the budget, but I think the reality of these cuts would be a shock to most Texans.”


The Republican agenda at work.

398 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:37:29am

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

Good to catch you again. I’m bummed I missed out on the thread you posted about the douche objectivist father. That was a great read.

Ditto this. It astounds me that any parent could so fully embrace a philosophy which requires them to not give a fuck about anyone other than themselves.

If John Galt were real, and if he were alive today, he would fly over to Japan to Fukishima. He would eat the melting cores of the reactors, containment vessels and all, and through supernatural levels of literal intestinal fortitude, shit out a new metal that produces limitless amounts of electricity safely. Then, he would deliver an incredibly long speech about how only his bowels could have produced such a metal, before throwing this new substance into the Marianis trench, because nobody deserves the fruit of his labors but him.

399 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:38:36am
Everything you would only do in the privacy of your own home, Jon Kyl prefers to do on a subway car. #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement

Heh.

400 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:39:52am

It’s 2011. John Galt and Dildo Baggins are still fictional characters.

/

401 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:42:28am

re: #400 Gus 802

It’s 2011. John Galt and Dildo Baggins are still fictional characters.

/

Bored of the Rings ref gets you a gazillion updings!

402 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:42:32am

re: #396 Walter L. Newton

My comment was a bit of sarcasm, a joke. It’s one of the most watched shows in this house, and we don’t watch that much TV. Do most of it on Netflix streaming.

You’d think people would catch on…
;)

403 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:45:25am

Vomit.

/

404 webevintage  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:45:44am

re: #396 Walter L. Newton

My comment was a bit of sarcasm, a joke. It’s one of the most watched shows in this house, and we don’t watch that much TV. Do most of it on Netflix streaming.

SEE, THIS, this is why I try never respond to your posts, I never know if we’re being played or not.
Plus I’ve become very slooooowwww since I had to cut my morning tea with caffine (decaf sucks).

405 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:47:00am

re: #403 Gus 802

Vomit.

/

The artists rendering or the retailer? Both?

406 Varek Raith  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:47:36am

re: #404 webevintage

SEE, THIS, this is why I try never respond to your posts, I never know if we’re being played or not.
Plus I’ve become very slooowww since I had to cut my morning tea with caffine (decaf sucks).

I’m the same with the sarcasm in person. Confuses the hell out of my friends and family. I guess that’s why I notice when Walter’s being sarcastic.
:)

407 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:47:48am

re: #403 Gus 802

Vomit.

/

H&M, the Triangle Shirtwaist of the 21st Century.

408 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:48:22am

re: #407 Alouette

H&M, the Triangle Shirtwaist of the 21st Century.

Naaa, There’s lots of windows to leap through in the event of a fire.

409 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:48:26am

re: #404 webevintage

SEE, THIS, this is why I try never respond to your posts, I never know if we’re being played or not.
Plus I’ve become very slooowww since I had to cut my morning tea with caffine (decaf sucks).

I drink tea because I had to quit coffee. I would be depressed if I had to quit tea. Like I was when I had to quit coffee.

410 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:48:49am

re: #401 LudwigVanQuixote

Bored of the Rings ref gets you a gazillion updings!

I was a big LOTR fan as a teenager, but I never got around to reading BOTR. Is it as long as the oeuvre that it spoofs?

411 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:48:50am

re: #405 iceweasel

The artists rendering or the retailer? Both?

This part…

“For years, Coloradoans have made requests for the fast-fashion giant H&M to open a store in Colorado…”

and this part…

Denver Mayor Bill Vidal said that as Denver strives for a strong economic recovery, the arrival of H&M is a big bonus for downtown Denver.

Colorado is still so dorky.

412 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:50:13am

re: #411 Gus 802

This part…

“For years, Coloradoans have made requests for the fast-fashion giant H&M to open a store in Colorado…”

and this part…

Denver Mayor Bill Vidal said that as Denver strives for a strong economic recovery, the arrival of H&M is a big bonus for downtown Denver.

Colorado is still so dorky.

I’ve only been to Denver once and all I remember is a great bookstore, the Tattered Cover.

413 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:53:01am

re: #410 Alouette

I was a big LOTR fan as a teenager, but I never got around to reading BOTR. Is it as long as the oeuvre that it spoofs?

I once made 150 bucks for watching all three LOTR movies, extended version, back to back without pause. Someone bet me I wouldn’t, so, having a day off, and a small camcorder to film me watching the movies as proof, I did it. That’s 12 hours of LOTR immersion.

It was most certainly not the easiest 150 bucks I have ever made, despite the fact that it took no actual effort to make it. I still more or less like the LOTR movies, but I don’t think i’ll ever watch any of them again.

414 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:54:01am

re: #412 iceweasel

I’ve only been to Denver once and all I remember is a great bookstore, the Tattered Cover.

They have those. I used to go to a local one to get some books. In and out. Some people have retail lifestyles though — like good Muricans. Their whole lives revolve around what they purchase. Like that H&M chain I never heard of. Seriously. They won’t mean squat to Denver. It’s just your typical retail/real estate bullshit talk and the mayor who sucks up to it. It’s like I live in a goofy version of “Metropolis.”

415 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:54:10am

re: #410 Alouette

I was a big LOTR fan as a teenager, but I never got around to reading BOTR. Is it as long as the oeuvre that it spoofs?

It’s maybe 150 pages. I read it in one sitting as a teen.

Best quote:

Pity stayed his hand; pity he had no more bullets in his luger.

416 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:55:49am

re: #411 Gus 802

I am not a Coloradoan and I have never advocated for H&M to build one of their tat stores in my area.

Therefore, by stupid person logic, the statement “Coloradoans have frequently advocated for H&M to sell them overpriced pastel sweaters” is obviously true.

I only await Walter’s confirmation of this truthy fact.

417 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:57:19am

re: #413 Fozzie Bear
12 hours on video tape??
Did you move the TV into the Bathroom??
…Gross…LOL

418 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:59:01am

re: #316 Alouette

Charles once received email from a “fan” calling him a “Zionist honco”

We sort of adopted the word.

419 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:59:26am

re: #416 iossarian

I am not a Coloradoan and I have never advocated for H&M to build one of their tat stores in my area.

Therefore, by stupid person logic, the statement “Coloradoans have frequently advocated for H&M to sell them overpriced pastel sweaters” is obviously true.

I only await Walter’s confirmation of this truthy fact.

I never heard of them. Maybe they can just build thing and keep the bullshit talk to themselves. But, what can I expect from a one newspaper town populated by a bunch of conformist yuppies. They’ll probably use out of state contractors to build that concrete bunker.

420 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 9:59:27am

re: #410 Alouette

I was a big LOTR fan as a teenager, but I never got around to reading BOTR. Is it as long as the oeuvre that it spoofs?

For the record, I adore Tolkien. The thing with Tolkien though is that the star of his novels is no particular character, but Middle Earth itself. Because of his deep attention to detail and the just enough said and unsaid - hinting at an ever larger world, he has a sense of gravitas that is very hard to beat. However, his characters are archetypes and his tales are parables.

If I may… please read the Song of Ice and Fire series by Martin starting with A Game of Thrones.

It has a depth of character and a well thought out plot that is rarely seen in any type of novel, let alone fantasy literature in addition to a vast world.

421 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:00:21am

re: #420 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, I adore Tolkien. The thing with Tolkien though is that the star of his novels is no particular character, but Middle Earth itself. Because of his deep attention to detail and the just enough said and unsaid - hinting at an ever larger world, he has a sense of gravitas that is very hard to beat. However, his characters are archetypes and his tales are parables.

If I may… please read the Song of Ice and Fire series by Martin starting with A Game of Thrones.

It has a depth of character and a well thought out plot that is rarely seen in any type of novel, let alone fantasy literature in addition to a vast world.

The series on HBO starts this Sunday.

422 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:01:12am

re: #410 Alouette

I was a big LOTR fan as a teenager, but I never got around to reading BOTR. Is it as long as the oeuvre that it spoofs?

Truly one of the best parodies ever written.

423 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:01:16am

re: #421 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The series on HBO starts this Sunday.

And I will be recording it… Holidays and all!

424 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:01:27am

re: #419 Gus 802

I never heard of them. Maybe they can just build thing and keep the bullshit talk to themselves. But, what can I expect from a one newspaper town populated by a bunch of conformist yuppies. They’ll probably use out of state contractors to build that concrete bunker.

LOFL. Snookidemic:

“The first H&M in Colorado will naturally become a destination store, increasing the number of visitors to downtown and serving as a catalyst for exciting new retail to open in the area.”

Door called it a “wonderful foreshadowing of what is to come.”

We’ve come to this. Truly a sign of American exceptionalism. Having an orgasm over one retail store. What a bunch of airheads.

425 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:01:51am

re: #420 LudwigVanQuixote

For the record, I adore Tolkien. The thing with Tolkien though is that the star of his novels is no particular character, but Middle Earth itself. Because of his deep attention to detail and the just enough said and unsaid - hinting at an ever larger world, he has a sense of gravitas that is very hard to beat. However, his characters are archetypes and his tales are parables.

If I may… please read the Song of Ice and Fire series by Martin starting with A Game of Thrones.

It has a depth of character and a well thought out plot that is rarely seen in any type of novel, let alone fantasy literature in addition to a vast world.

I tried to get my kids to read LOTR, but only one of my sons enjoyed it. He read the entire trilogy in one weekend after the first movie came out.

I do not enjoy sci-fi/fantasy fiction. My favorite light reading material is thriller/mysteries.

426 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:02:13am

Now you know why Paris Hilton is so popular. It’s because Paris Hilton is America.

427 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:02:40am

re: #423 LudwigVanQuixote

And I will be recording it… Holidays and all!

First 15 minutes can be seen here

428 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:03:10am

re: #416 iossarian

I am not a Coloradoan and I have never advocated for H&M to build one of their tat stores in my area.

Therefore, by stupid person logic, the statement “Coloradoans have frequently advocated for H&M to sell them overpriced pastel sweaters” is obviously true.

I only await Walter’s confirmation of this truthy fact.

I suppose I am far enough out of it that I don’t even know what H&M is. I guess they are some sort of bourgeois fashion shop. They look like a step up from the gap.

Do they have a particularly evil back story?

429 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:03:38am

re: #419 Gus 802

If there’s one thing I hate about the insistence that we create a “business-friendly culture” above all else, it’s that it requires people to mouth crap like this:

Door called it a “wonderful foreshadowing of what is to come.”

It’s 1984 in overdrive. A tear glistens on your cheek and you raise your glass of cheap gin as you praise the building of a sparkling new clothing store in your city. Then it’s the show trial and the bullet in the head.

Good times all round.

430 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:04:11am

One thing I noticed when re-reading LOTR after the movies came out, is how incredible apartheid Middle Earth is. Hobbits in the Shire, Elves in Lorien, Dwarves in their mithril-mines, humans in Rohan and Gondor, Orcs in Mordor. There is just no integration there, except for the Fellowship.

431 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:05:10am

re: #430 Alouette

One thing I noticed when re-reading LOTR after the movies came out, is how incredible apartheid Middle Earth is. Hobbits in the Shire, Elves in Lorien, Dwarves in their mithril-mines, humans in Rohan and Gondor, Orcs in Mordor. There is just no integration there, except for the Fellowship.

Well, they are actually different species, rather than just different variations of the same thing.

432 Why I Never!  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:05:11am

re: #428 LudwigVanQuixote

I suppose I am far enough out of it that I don’t even know what H&M is. I guess they are some sort of bourgeois fashion shop. They look like a step up from the gap.

Step up from the gap in terms of fashion, step down in terms of pricing. There’s one on Bway in SoHo. Good for cheap basics, I thought. Been a couple of years since I’ve been to one.

Hellish shopping experience though, the store itself was awful.

433 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:05:14am

re: #303 lawhawk

Now, one has to wonder why the Soviets apparently forged the ID, and why the FBI withheld that information for decades. What exactly was the FBI hiding - and why did the Soviets take this tact? Something smells rotten in all of this.

I’d love to hear someone answer that question. Did they really think he was innocent and if so why did they keep their mouths shut for 30 years while this guy was portrayed as a nazi war criminal.

434 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:05:30am

re: #430 Alouette

One thing I noticed when re-reading LOTR after the movies came out, is how incredible apartheid Middle Earth is. Hobbits in the Shire, Elves in Lorien, Dwarves in their mithril-mines, humans in Rohan and Gondor, Orcs in Mordor. There is just no integration there, except for the Fellowship.

Hobbit holes for Hobbit folk!

435 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:05:34am

re: #428 LudwigVanQuixote

I suppose I am far enough out of it that I don’t even know what H&M is. I guess they are some sort of bourgeois fashion shop. They look like a step up from the gap.

Do they have a particularly evil back story?

Yes, they are the Triangle Shirtwaist of the 21st Century.

436 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:05:43am

re: #429 iossarian

If there’s one thing I hate about the insistence that we create a “business-friendly culture” above all else, it’s that it requires people to mouth crap like this:

It’s 1984 in overdrive. A tear glistens on your cheek and you raise your glass of cheap gin as you praise the building of a sparkling new clothing store in your city. Then it’s the show trial and the bullet in the head.

Good times all round.

Like I said. It’s a dorky version of Metropolis. They’re going gaga over a retail location that’s not even locally owned. The people who end up working there won’t make a career from being employed there save the one or two managers. All of the money ends up going to a couple of fat cats in Sweden.

437 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:06:44am

re: #435 Alouette

Yes, they are the Triangle Shirtwaist of the 21st Century.

Thanks for that link. That only adds to the BS about all of this.

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:06:48am

re: #367 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude, she’s a convict, she’ll kick you ass. Watch it!!

When Martha went to jail, I figured that how she did would depend a lot on how the big woman on the block felt about the Martha Stewart empire. If she had books to be autographed, that would be one thing.

If she walked over and said “So…just putting the fucking placecards on the table isn’t good enough? We gotta applique little felt reindeer onto them, huh? HUH, bitch?”—-not so good.

439 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:06:57am

re: #433 RogueOne

I’d love to hear someone answer that question. Did they really think he was innocent and if so why did they keep their mouths shut for 30 years while this guy was portrayed as a nazi war criminal.

It sounds from the article as if the Soviets wanted to smear him because he was a defector.

From the US point of view, I can imagine that people didn’t think that defending an accused Nazi war criminal would play all that well.

440 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:07:02am

re: #436 Gus 802

Like I said. It’s a dorky version of Metropolis. They’re going gaga over a retail location that’s not even locally owned. The people who end up working there won’t make a career from being employed there save the one or two managers. All of the money ends up going to a couple of fat cats in Sweden.

Tis the American Way, God love it.

///

441 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:07:33am

And they utilize 3rd world sweatshop labor. Too much.

442 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:07:43am

re: #436 Gus 802

Like I said. It’s a dorky version of Metropolis. They’re going gaga over a retail location that’s not even locally owned. The people who end up working there won’t make a career from being employed there save the one or two managers. All of the money ends up going to a couple of fat cats in Sweden.

At least it’ll be redistributed there. I’d rather my money go to them than to the guy that owns Target and funds Bachmann and her like.

443 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:07:51am

re: #425 Alouette

I tried to get my kids to read LOTR, but only one of my sons enjoyed it. He read the entire trilogy in one weekend after the first movie came out.

I do not enjoy sci-fi/fantasy fiction. My favorite light reading material is thriller/mysteries.

This is the case where I say, please try it Alouette! There is a huge amount of crap in the fantasy genre, but this is different. If you don’t like this, then for certain you won’t like any fantasy.

As to mystery and thriller - part of what makes this series so great is speculating on where the incredibly tight plot will go. The plot does not have stupid twists, but the best sorts of twists where everything was laid out well, but you didn’t see it coming. The intricacies are sufficient and the scope large enough that it is really cool to talk about “what will happen” much like talking politics.

Also, Martin writes these amazing characters and he makes it clear he will kill them off in non stupid ways. If you are reading a bit where one of your favorites is in danger, they may well actually buy it. It makes for *very* engaging reading.

444 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:08:42am

re: #442 iossarian

At least it’ll be redistributed there. I’d rather my money go to them than to the guy that owns Target and funds Bachmann and her like.

Fuck ‘em both.

445 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:08:48am

re: #437 Gus 802

Thanks for that link. That only adds to the BS about all of this.

I could not help buy wonder how many of the hipsters that attended all the Triangle Shirtwaist Centennial MemorialsTM have wardrobes full of H&M goods.

446 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:09:02am

re: #430 Alouette

One thing I noticed when re-reading LOTR after the movies came out, is how incredible apartheid Middle Earth is. Hobbits in the Shire, Elves in Lorien, Dwarves in their mithril-mines, humans in Rohan and Gondor, Orcs in Mordor. There is just no integration there, except for the Fellowship.

Say what you like about the Empire of Sigmar, but at least it welcomes Dwarves and Halflings into its society. Elves are just too snotty to want to join.

447 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:09:10am

re: #430 Alouette

One thing I noticed when re-reading LOTR after the movies came out, is how incredible apartheid Middle Earth is. Hobbits in the Shire, Elves in Lorien, Dwarves in their mithril-mines, humans in Rohan and Gondor, Orcs in Mordor. There is just no integration there, except for the Fellowship.

Not entirely so. Arwen and Arragorn join together the two lines of Human elf hybrid lines (with some maia thrown in).

448 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:09:30am

On the subject of Civil War, I’m very proud that the few of my ancestors that were here when the war started were union men. I also proudly have the Irish Brigade’s flag and motto tattooed on my right upper arm. Riamh Nar Dhruid O Spairn Iann!
Image: flag4th.jpg

449 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:09:36am

re: #445 Alouette

I could not help buy wonder how many of the hipsters that attended all the Triangle Shirtwaist Centennial MemorialsTM have wardrobes full of H&M goods.

Really… please enlighten me about H&M…

450 martinsmithy  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:09:40am

My father told me that, when he was a student in primary and secondary school, he developed an admiration for the Confederacy that he thinks was based upon the way the Civil War was taught (and this was not in the South, BTW) in the classroom. The South’s generals were presented as wise and noble, the North’s generals as at first incompetent, and then later brutally efficient (Grant and Sherman). Slavery wasn’t discounted as an issue, but was presented as one of several equal issues between North and South. Reconstruction was presented as the onslaught of Northern carpetbaggers inciting ignorant former slaves into paroxysms of misrule, ending when the South returned to its natural order after 1876.

When I was in school the tables were turned, and rightly so. OF COURSE slavery was THE issue that caused the Civil War. Discussion of war tactics was much more balanced, and emphasized the fact that the South’s warmaking success was doomed under almost any scenario due to its economic backwardness compared to the North. And Reconstruction was presented in its true light as a struggle by the forces of Southern conservatism and racism to regain the upper hand against their opponents.

It’s an outrage that there are still some in this country who don’t recognize the historical truth of the Civil War. And they tend to be Tea Partiers too. What a coincidence …

451 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:10:03am

re: #447 LudwigVanQuixote

Not entirely so. Arwen and Arragorn join together the two lines of Human elf hybrid lines (with some maia thrown in).

Wasn’t Aragron technically a different species of man, coming from the line of the old kings?

452 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:10:46am

re: #420 LudwigVanQuixote


If I may… please read the Song of Ice and Fire series by Martin starting with A Game of Thrones.

I read the first one recently. I won’t be bothering with the rest. I had no sympathy for anyone in the book and found it even more contrived than most of the Tolkien clones. To me it was almost as bad as Sword of Shannara.

The Fionavar Tapestry books by Guy Gavriel Kay or The Vorkosigan Series by Lois McMaster Bujold are were I’d rather spend my reading time.

453 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:10:51am

re: #449 LudwigVanQuixote

Really… please enlighten me about H&M…

Their clothing is dyed with the blood of children toiling in their hellish sweatshops.

454 Gus  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:11:08am

Greedy H&M, WalMart Destroy Clothing

These big companies are greedy, with special mention going to both H&M and WalMart. Have you heard about the two throwing unsold clothing / clothes to waste? Can you imagine how many people, suffering in this cold winter months, could have benefited with the clothes had H&M and WalMart donated the unsold merchandise to Goodwill or other charities?

New York Times reports the discovery of bags full of unused clothes in bins, slashed with razors to ensure that no one would ever wear or sell it. H&M follows a destroy-and-discard policy. OMG! These predatory companies do not have a sense of civic virtue or civil responsibilities…

455 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:11:11am

re: #435 Alouette

Yes, they are the Triangle Shirtwaist of the 21st Century.

Thank you for posting that. Another on my list to never buy from.

456 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:11:40am

re: #451 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wasn’t Aragron technically a different species of man, coming from the line of the old kings?

Yeah, he was a Numenorean. Eowyn had a crush on him, but he was way out of her league.

457 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:11:47am

re: #452 wlewisiii

I read the first one recently. I won’t be bothering with the rest. I had no sympathy for anyone in the book and found it even more contrived than most of the Tolkien clones. To me it was almost as bad as Sword of Shannara.

God, Sword of Shannara.

I thought it was shit (in an enjoyable kind of way) at 14. I can’t imagine how I’d react to it now.

458 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:12:24am

re: #450 martinsmithy

My father told me that, when he was a student in primary and secondary school, he developed an admiration for the Confederacy that he thinks was based upon the way the Civil War was taught (and this was not in the South, BTW) in the classroom. The South’s generals were presented as wise and noble, the North’s generals as at first incompetent, and then later brutally efficient (Grant and Sherman). Slavery wasn’t discounted as an issue, but was presented as one of several equal issues between North and South. Reconstruction was presented as the onslaught of Northern carpetbaggers inciting ignorant former slaves into paroxysms of misrule, ending when the South returned to its natural order after 1876.

When I was in school the tables were turned, and rightly so. OF COURSE slavery was THE issue that caused the Civil War. Discussion of war tactics was much more balanced, and emphasized the fact that the South’s warmaking success was doomed under almost any scenario due to its economic backwardness compared to the North. And Reconstruction was presented in its true light as a struggle by the forces of Southern conservatism and racism to regain the upper hand against their opponents.

It’s an outrage that there are still some in this country who don’t recognize the historical truth of the Civil War. And they tend to be Tea Partiers too. What a coincidence …

Oh, there’s still plenty of Southern love in the classrooms, even if they’ve had to slowly “Get with the Times” and admit some of the old lessons are bullshit. Hell, was only a couple years or so ago that they finally split up “Lee-Jackson-King Day” into two separate holidays.

459 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:12:25am

re: #453 Alouette

Their clothing is dyed with the blood of children toiling in their hellish sweatshops.

I just saw your link.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Someday, all of those who think nothing of such things will learn that judgement is real and unpleasant.

460 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:14:08am

For anyone who wants a good old fashioned sword and sorcery book series, I recommend the Slayer series


The novels chronicle the adventures of a Dwarfen Slayer named Gotrek Gurnisson and his poet/insurrectionist companion, Felix Jaeger. As a Slayer, Gotrek seeks a glorious death in battle to atone for his unknown sins. Felix, bound to him by a Dwarven blood-oath sworn after a drinking binge, is tasked with writing and recording his heroic exploits and ultimately his death. Felix, however, has long since come to adopt the opinion that “anything capable of killing The Slayer would finish me off shortly afterwards”. Together they have rid the Old World of trolls, skaven, beastmen, orcs, mutants, dark elves, goblins, chaos worshippers and other monsters beyond count, on several occasions they have also destroyed other much more powerful beasts such as dragons, giants, vampires and daemons, but seem doomed never to be recognized for their heroic achievements.
461 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:14:17am

re: #452 wlewisiii

I read the first one recently. I won’t be bothering with the rest. I had no sympathy for anyone in the book and found it even more contrived than most of the Tolkien clones. To me it was almost as bad as Sword of Shannara.

The Fionavar Tapestry books by Guy Gavriel Kay or The Vorkosigan Series by Lois McMaster Bujold are were I’d rather spend my reading time.

OK I really like Guy Gavriel Kay. We will have to agree to disagree as to which series is better though.

But the Vorkosigan series is pure space opera. I love the books, but I don’t see how they fit as a comparison.

462 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:15:36am

re: #456 Alouette

Yeah, he was a Numenorean. Eowyn had a crush on him, but he was way out of her league.

OK… you know that… Admit it! You are a nerd girl! Feel the power of the dork side of the force and embrace your destiny!

463 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:15:53am

I think the real tragedy of the Civil War is while it ended slavery, blacks in the South were by and large second class citizens for the next century. And it wasn’t just blacks that were oppressed by the planter elites but poor whites too. What some don’t know is there was a populist movement in the South that occurred in the post war era wherein some rare cases poor whites and blacks worked together. The response to this was restrictions on voting for poor whites too.

464 webevintage  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:15:55am

re: #409 wrenchwench

I drink tea because I had to quit coffee. I would be depressed if I had to quit tea. Like I was when I had to quit coffee.

I tried mixing a bit of regular English Breakfast with Decaf English Breakfast this morning and it was better so maybe this will work if I drink no other caffeine during the day.
(we don’t buy soda and i mostly drink water or OJ the rest of the time so I might be OK)

465 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:16:11am

re: #459 LudwigVanQuixote

I just saw your link.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Someday, all of those who think nothing of such things will learn that judgement is real and unpleasant.

Read their lame excuses for child labor in their sweatshops.

466 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:16:34am

Ah shit, I didn’t know this about H&M. The shirt I am wearing right now is from there. Ugh. I guess i’ll have to find another place to get affordable shirts that don’t look like crap.

467 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:17:08am

re: #458 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh, there’s still plenty of Southern love in the classrooms, even if they’ve had to slowly “Get with the Times” and admit some of the old lessons are bullshit. Hell, was only a couple years or so ago that they finally split up “Lee-Jackson-King Day” into two separate holidays.

Ah yes, Lee-Jackson-King day and don’t forget Governor Allen proudly displaying hte Stars and Bars in his office. I just watched a documentary on the Chuck Robb-Oliver North senate race. Saw a ton of confederate flags there and confederate apologists. Agh!

468 blueraven  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:17:19am

re: #397 Killgore Trout

Could Texas turn blue?
AARP: TX Seniors Face Dire Cuts to Long-Term Care


The Republican agenda at work.

My husbands aunt lives in a subsidized apartment complex for the elderly with some medical staff on property. She is legally blind, 78 years old. She retired from Walmart about 10 years ago where she worked in the sewing/fabric center for over 20 years. She was treated like crap there because she had an accent, was very meek and never said no to anyone. She worked every damn weekend and every crappy shift. She worked until she could no longer drive due to her failing eyesight. (glaucoma)

Now this program is at risk. It makes me sick. Perry and the TX republicans are heartless.

469 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:17:51am

re: #461 LudwigVanQuixote

OK I really like Guy Gavriel Kay. We will have to agree to disagree as to which series is better though.

But the Vorkosigan series is pure space opera. I love the books, but I don’t see how they fit as a comparison.

I find her writing quite good and far beyond “space opera”. She uses the trappings to tell some very interesting stories (IMO, IME & all that). If you have never read it, I’d advise trying “The Mountains of Mourning” as evidence.
[Link: www.baen.com…]

470 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:17:59am

re: #466 Fozzie Bear

Ah shit, I didn’t know this about H&M. The shirt I am wearing right now is from there. Ugh. I guess i’ll have to find another place to get affordable shirts that don’t look like crap.

I was saying the other day on here that there is a gap in the market for ethical menswear that doesn’t look like something you’d wear to a Janis Joplin gig.

471 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:18:01am

re: #462 LudwigVanQuixote

OK… you know that… Admit it! You are a nerd girl! Feel the power of the dork side of the force and embrace your destiny!

Yeah, I am almost at the end of the Lee Child series. Jack Reacher has no more ass to kick until the next book comes out in October. What am I going to do until them? Also, the plot of the last couple of books that I read was so lame, I had it all figured out ahead of time.

472 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:19:37am

re: #451 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wasn’t Aragron technically a different species of man, coming from the line of the old kings?

OK… my nerdom will show here. Aragron is a descendant of Earendil who had two sons, Elrond and Elros. They were half elven. Aragron is descended from Elros, who chose to live as a human and founded the line of Numenor. Arwen is the daughter of Elron, but through her mother, is descended from Melian the Maia.

473 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:20:06am

And I’ll just plug here that the final Wheel of Time novel comes out this fall.

474 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:21:42am

re: #472 LudwigVanQuixote

OK… my nerdom will show here. Aragron is a descendant of Earendil who had two sons, Elrond and Elros. They were half elven. Aragron is descended from Elros, who chose to live as a human and founded the line of Numenor. Arwen is the daughter of Elron, but through her mother, is descended from Melian the Maia.

I could never get into the genealogical stuff, or the Silmarrillon. It just went on and on like (l’havdil) the dorot in the Torah.

475 iossarian  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:21:50am

re: #465 Alouette

Read their lame excuses for child labor in their sweatshops.

What’s stupid about these kind of “measures” is that they’d be unnecessary if H&M and their ilk actually supported government measures to eliminate child labor, provide family support and education to the general population, and so on.

But instead they support politicians who go out of their way to promote the fabulous “business-friendly environment” that will shortly have teenagers working 30-hour weeks for 5 bucks an hour in Maine.

476 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:22:36am

re: #465 Alouette

Read their lame excuses for child labor in their sweatshops.

Objectivism eh… if those kids were worthy, they would shit out an infinite energy source and not be such whiny moochers.

I am starting to think that my ancestor David’s solution to Moab would apply very well to people who think this shit is ok.

Thus shall you wipe evil from your midst.

477 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:23:40am

re: #474 Alouette

I could never get into the genealogical stuff, or the Silmarrillon. It just went on and on like (l’havdil) the dorot in the Torah.

LOL… which is exactly why I liked Silmarrillon so much ironically… It lent a certain air of gravitas to it.

478 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:26:07am

re: #465 Alouette

Read their lame excuses for child labor in their sweatshops.

From there:

We also have contacts with doctors who can help us to judge the age of those who we think look particularly young during our factory audits. Often no documentation is found and in the worst case neither the families nor the child knows how old he or she is. Lack of documentation is a big problem and we are constantly working on getting our suppliers to improve their routines, so that they can give a serious assurance that everyone who is working in their factory has reached the lawful age for employment. We require some kind of proof of age to be checked on employment or, if there is no such proof, for a doctor to establish his or her approximate age.

Sounds like they want to skate as close as they can to whatever the “lawful age for employment” is.

479 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:27:39am

re: #474 Alouette

I could never get into the genealogical stuff, or the Silmarrillon. It just went on and on like (l’havdil) the dorot in the Torah.

I can see that. I stopped reading it about half way thru just because of that.

480 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:27:39am

re: #467 HappyWarrior

Ah yes, Lee-Jackson-King day and don’t forget Governor Allen proudly displaying hte Stars and Bars in his office. I just watched a documentary on the Chuck Robb-Oliver North senate race. Saw a ton of confederate flags there and confederate apologists. Agh!

Yeah, though I hold out hope that, like a lot of the other BS, the whole neo-Confederate movement will die out with the older generations. Most of the kids growing up will slap the Stars and Bars on their truck or talk about “Southern Pride,” but not many really talk the apologist line. That’s mostly for the Boomers and farther back, the ones who got fed a heaping helping of it growing up.

481 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:27:48am

re: #478 wrenchwench

From there:

Sounds like they want to skate as close as they can to whatever the “lawful age for employment” is.

We’re talking Bangladesh here, which has heaps of “disposable” people.

482 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:30:10am

re: #469 wlewisiii

I find her writing quite good and far beyond “space opera”. She uses the trappings to tell some very interesting stories (IMO, IME & all that). If you have never read it, I’d advise trying “The Mountains of Mourning” as evidence.
[Link: www.baen.com…]

I love space opera, and I certainly do not see the term as pejorative.

There is good space opera and bad space opera. The point of space opera to me is a certain sweeping scope where the science part of the science fiction takes second place to high adventure and the interactions of likable heroes and hateable villains. Much of the most beloved sci-fi out there is pure space opera. She is absolutely writing space opera.

I don’t see the term “high fantasy” as pejorative either.

483 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:30:58am

re: #475 iossarian

What’s stupid about these kind of “measures” is that they’d be unnecessary if H&M and their ilk actually supported government measures to eliminate child labor, provide family support and education to the general population, and so on.

But instead they support politicians who go out of their way to promote the fabulous “business-friendly environment” that will shortly have teenagers working 30-hour weeks for 5 bucks an hour in Maine.

Yeah, it seems that the “business-friendly environment” overseas is slowly losing its appeal, as the governments over there are quickly modernizing and looking to employ the sweatshops for their own population’s needs. So the politicians here feel that it’s time to start making things look appealing here to businesses, which means getting rid of a lot of their onerous “safety regulations” that unions fought and bled for, so as to allow the exploitation of the young and vulnerable to begin again.

484 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:31:50am

re: #482 LudwigVanQuixote

I love space opera, and I certainly do not see the term as pejorative.

There is good space opera and bad space opera. The point of space opera to me is a certain sweeping scope where the science part of the science fiction takes second place to high adventure and the interactions of likable heroes and hateable villains. Much of the most beloved sci-fi out there is pure space opera. She is absolutely writing space opera.

I don’t see the term “high fantasy” as pejorative either.

Gotcha. Most people I discuss these issues do use both phrases pejoratively, hence the knee jerk.

485 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:32:54am

re: #482 LudwigVanQuixote

I love space opera, and I certainly do not see the term as pejorative.

There is good space opera and bad space opera. The point of space opera to me is a certain sweeping scope where the science part of the science fiction takes second place to high adventure and the interactions of likable heroes and hateable villains. Much of the most beloved sci-fi out there is pure space opera. She is absolutely writing space opera.

I don’t see the term “high fantasy” as pejorative either.

Horus Heresy (novels)

486 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:34:24am

Live stream for Obama’s budget speech….
[Link: www.cnn.com…]

It’ll probably be a snooze but he might say something interesting.

487 HappyWarrior  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:34:28am

re: #480 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, though I hold out hope that, like a lot of the other BS, the whole neo-Confederate movement will die out with the older generations. Most of the kids growing up will slap the Stars and Bars on their truck or talk about “Southern Pride,” but not many really talk the apologist line. That’s mostly for the Boomers and farther back, the ones who got fed a heaping helping of it growing up.

Yeah, I hope so too. My parents aren’t big on the Neo-Confederate thing but they were the first in their families to be born in Virginia and the south as a whole so they didn’t grow up hearing about those damn Yankees. And furthermore, my dad’s dad especially was very progressive minded on Civil Rights.

488 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:38:01am

re: #484 wlewisiii

Gotcha. Most people I discuss these issues do use both phrases pejoratively, hence the knee jerk.

I’m part of the nerd tribe that wants to take the phrases back.

Starwars, Babylon 5, Star trek, Battlestar Galactica are all space opera.

Starwars is perhaps the most perfect example of the genre that everyone knows. It isn’t about the tech except as a form of “magic” that makes the story possible. It isn’t about the moral quandires of the tech. It isn’t about societies and how they evolve or a mediation on the human condition in different circumstances. It isn’t military SF.

It is just about good vs. evil on the grandest scale where the universe is big and dark and bright and beautiful and scary - little guys make a difference and stands are made. Heroes rise.

B5 and BSG are on the more grown up end of the spectrum and both have strong elements of hard SF military SF. But they are still very much space opera.

489 Targetpractice  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:39:27am

re: #487 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I hope so too. My parents aren’t big on the Neo-Confederate thing but they were the first in their families to be born in Virginia and the south as a whole so they didn’t grow up hearing about those damn Yankees. And furthermore, my dad’s dad especially was very progressive minded on Civil Rights.

Hey man, Damn Yankees is good music. /

490 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:40:39am

re: #489 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey man, Damn Yankees is good music. /

Get out.

491 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:42:31am

re: #488 LudwigVanQuixote

I’m part of the nerd tribe that wants to take the phrases back.

Starwars, Babylon 5, Star trek, Battlestar Galactica are all space opera.

Starwars is perhaps the most perfect example of the genre that everyone knows. It isn’t about the tech except as a form of “magic” that makes the story possible. It isn’t about the moral quandires of the tech. It isn’t about societies and how they evolve or a mediation on the human condition in different circumstances. It isn’t military SF.

It is just about good vs. evil on the grandest scale where the universe is big and dark and bright and beautiful and scary - little guys make a difference and stands are made. Heroes rise.

B5 and BSG are on the more grown up end of the spectrum and both have strong elements of hard SF military SF. But they are still very much space opera.

“Science” fiction is more fantasy than science. There is that speed of light thing that just makes all that galaxy travel totally impossible in real life. I avoid futuristic fiction because the predictions are usually unrealistic, and the scenarios are depressing.

492 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:44:26am

There are no “Confederates” in Florida anymore, it is just a media induced hallucination.

Just because people drive around with 3’x5’ confederate flags waving over the beds of their pick-up trucks doesn’t necessarily mean that they support secession, right?

You ‘rarely’ (only a few dozen times per day) see people openly displaying the confederate flag on their cars or at their homes in the big cities like Miami, St. Petersburg, Tampa, or Orlando.

Of course there are areas that are ‘aberrations’ like Dixie, Levi, Gilchrist, La Fayette, and Suwannee counties in northern Florida.

///

Even a white boy (especially a “city boy”) has to be a bit careful up there so as not to not be accused of being anti-segregation and a N****r Lover. Sigh…

493 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:45:18am

re: #465 Alouette

Read their lame excuses for child labor in their sweatshops.

Ah, yes, the ‘but if we don’t employ them, they’ll end up as prostitutes, is that what you want?’ tactic.

It’s positively charitable of us to exploit cheap child labor under unsafe working conditions.

//Feh

494 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:46:31am

re: #470 iossarian

I was saying the other day on here that there is a gap in the market for ethical menswear that doesn’t look like something you’d wear to a Janis Joplin gig.

There is.

They don’t have everything, but Fair Indigo is a good resource.

495 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:47:01am

re: #491 Alouette

“Science” fiction is more fantasy than science. There is that speed of light thing that just makes all that galaxy travel totally impossible in real life. I avoid futuristic fiction because the predictions are usually unrealistic, and the scenarios are depressing.

FREEZER SHIPS FOR EVERYONE!

496 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:48:26am

re: #493 SanFranciscoZionist

Ah, yes, the ‘but if we don’t employ them, they’ll end up as prostitutes, is that what you want?’ tactic.

It’s positively charitable of us to exploit cheap child labor under unsafe working conditions.

//Feh

We can all thank Friedman for that ridiculous argument.

497 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:49:09am

re: #496 Fozzie Bear

We can all thank Friedman for that ridiculous argument.

Milton or Kinky?

498 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:49:44am

re: #497 Alouette

Milton or Kinky?

LOL. Maybe both, but mostly Milton.

499 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:50:34am

re: #491 Alouette

“Science” fiction is more fantasy than science. There is that speed of light thing that just makes all that galaxy travel totally impossible in real life. I avoid futuristic fiction because the predictions are usually unrealistic, and the scenarios are depressing.

As a crazy physicist, I will say that there is just enough room for “loopholes” in the physics that I can’t rule out deep space travel completely. For certain, we have no way of doing it now or in the foreseeable future, but things like wormholes do exist as solutions to Einstein’s Field equations and the existence and nature of dark energy leaves room for speculation.

As to what is realistic, the science fiction IMHO takes what is always true about people and sets up conditions that allow the author to explore it.

In many ways, the best science fiction is vastly more real than any other fiction because it is free to go into all sorts of other corners that other fiction can not. And yes, that is sometimes very depressing. Other times, it is beautiful.

500 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:53:31am

re: #491 Alouette

Ohh and as to predictions being realistic or not… Hard SF has always been ahead of the tech curve and it has frequently made all sorts of predictions that later came true. This is a tradition that goes back to Wells and Verne. Clarke predicted man made satellites. Wells predicted nuclear weapons.

501 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:54:17am

re: #500 LudwigVanQuixote

Ohh and as to predictions being realistic or not… Hard SF has always been ahead of the tech curve and it has frequently made all sorts of predictions that later came true. This is a tradition that goes back to Wells and Verne. Clarke predicted man made satellites. Wells predicted nuclear weapons.

Mark Twain predicted the internet. Daffy Duck predicted Inception.

502 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:55:02am

re: #499 LudwigVanQuixote

As a crazy physicist, I will say that there is just enough room for “loopholes” in the physics that I can’t rule out deep space travel completely. For certain, we have no way of doing it now or in the foreseeable future, but things like wormholes do exist as solutions to Einstein’s Field equations and the existence and nature of dark energy leaves room for speculation.

As to what is realistic, the science fiction IMHO takes what is always true about people and sets up conditions that allow the author to explore it.

In many ways, the best science fiction is vastly more real than any other fiction because it is free to go into all sorts of other corners that other fiction can not. And yes, that is sometimes very depressing. Other times, it is beautiful.

I thought Michael Crichton’s novels had good science in them, but then he wrote that awful anti-AGW screed “State of Fear”

503 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:55:23am

re: #501 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mark Twain predicted the internet. Daffy Duck predicted Inception.

Donald Duck, not Daffy.

504 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:55:48am

re: #503 Alouette

Donald Duck, not Daffy.

Pff, all those ducks look the same to me.
/

505 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:56:05am

re: #501 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mark Twain predicted the internet. Daffy Duck predicted Inception.

Now why would you go and write something like that?

Check out Well’s book The Last War. Look at the date it was published and tell me about predictions.

Did Verne not write about going to the moon on a ballistic trajectory?

Really?

506 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:57:05am

re: #505 LudwigVanQuixote

Now why would you go and write something like that?

Check out Well’s book The Last War. Look at the date it was published and tell me about predictions.

Did Verne not write about going to the moon on a ballistic trajectory?

Really?

Mark Twain actually did predict the internet in a short fiction story he wrote.

The duck thing was just a joke.

507 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:57:31am

re: #495 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

FREEZER SHIPS FOR EVERYONE!

You know what happens next, someone yelling KAHN! so loudly it even echoes through vacuam space!

/

508 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:57:57am

re: #502 Alouette

I thought Michael Crichton’s novels had good science in them, but then he wrote that awful anti-AGW screed “State of Fear”

I have a lot of issues with Crichton. I don’t suggest learning science from science fiction. However, the best SF authors know their science and they can frequently push the envelope of what is here into what is possible and likely to come.

509 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:58:31am

re: #505 LudwigVanQuixote

Now why would you go and write something like that?

Check out Well’s book The Last War. Look at the date it was published and tell me about predictions.

Did Verne not write about going to the moon on a ballistic trajectory?

Really?

And that novel “The Wreck of the Titan,” written in 1898.

510 Kragar (Antichrist )  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 10:59:01am

Mark Twain, Father of the Internet

I contend that Mark Twain (one of the great science-fiction writers of all time) first conceived the Internet. Like the wizards of the 1960s and ’70s, his contribution has been forgotten. But like Arthur C. Clarke, who conceived the earth satellite and could have patented it, Twain understood the idea of the Internet before the scientists did. If anything, he leaped beyond the text-based Internet to the just-dawning world of video chat and vlogging (video blogging).

Surfing the telelectroscope

Even Twain scholars seem to have missed his foresight on this subject. I discovered it by accident, in browsing through the 24 volumes of his collected works in the “Author’s National Edition.” In an 1898 short story called “From the ‘London Times’ of 1904,” he describes an invention called the “telelectroscope,” a gadget hooked up to the phone system: “The improved ‘limitless-distance’ telephone was presently introduced, and the daily doings of the globe made visible to everybody, and audibly discussable too, by witnesses separated by any number of leagues.”

511 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 13, 2011 11:00:34am

re: #509 Alouette

And that novel “The Wreck of the Titan,” written in 1898.

Great reference!


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