OC Tea Party Activist Who Sent Racist Email Defiantly Refuses to Resign

‘In no way did I even consider the fact he’s half black’
Wingnuts • Views: 33,000

The Republican/Tea Party activist who sent an ugly racist email to a conservative list in Orange County, Marilyn Davenport, has issued one of those non-apology apologies that blames the whole thing on the “liberal media,” and she defiantly refuses to resign from the central committee of the Orange County Republican Party: UPDATED: Davenport Defiant.

Click to enlarge“I’m sorry if my email offended anyone. I simply found it amusing regarding the character of Obama and all the questions surrounding his origin of birth. In no way did I even consider the fact he’s half black when I sent out the email. In fact, the thought never entered my mind until one or two other people tried to make this about race. We all know a double standard applies regarding this president. I received plenty of emails about George Bush that I didn’t particularly like yet there was no ‘cry’ in the media about them. One only has to go to Youtube or Google Images to see a plethora or lampooning videos and pictures of Obama, Bush and other politicians. That being said, I will NOT resign my central committee position over this matter that the average person knows and agrees is much to do about nothing. Again, for those select few who might be truly offended by viewing a copy of an email I sent to a select list of friends and acquaintances, unlike the liberal left when they do the same, I offer my sincere apologies to you—the email was not meant for you. For any of my friends or acquaintances who were the recipients of my email and were truly offended, please call me so I may offer a sincere verbal apology to you.”

Another Orange County Republican activist, Tim Whitacre, defended Davenport by pointing out, “she is just real big on Birther stuff.”

“Marilyn Davenport is a staunch, ethical Republican lady. There is nothing unethical about this from a party standpoint because it wasn’t sent out to the party at large with any racist statements and it wasn’t signed as a central committee member. As a private individual, she is just real big on Birther stuff. One of her passions that drives her is the president’s lack of forthrightness about where he was born. Marilyn believes that nobody knows where he was born and so this picture says a thousand words.”

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280 comments
1 SteelGHAZI  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:10:26pm
2 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:11:07pm

Yes, the President's race completely slipped her mind to the extent she calls him 'half-black'. Race is clearly not something that concerns her.

What a despicable piece of racist trash.

3 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:11:09pm

Oh Davenport, you so crazy.

4 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:11:12pm
One of her passions that drives her is the president’s lack of forthrightness about where he was born. Marilyn believes that nobody knows where he was born and so this picture says a thousand words.”

Lack of forthrightness? Nobody knows where he was born?

Hasn't he said he was born in Hawaii? Isn't there a birth certificate showing that yes, he was indeed born in Hawaii? Isn't there a birth announcement in the newspaper, not placed by the family but placed by a Hawaii agency that records such things?

What the hell else does she need?

5 Big Joe Ghazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:11:27pm

It's strange how they have no problem doubling down on stupid these days.

6 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:11:51pm

re: #4 reine.de.tout

Lack of forthrightness? Nobody knows where he was born?

Hasn't he said he was born in Hawaii? Isn't there a birth certificate showing that yes, he was indeed born in Hawaii? Isn't there a birth announcement in the newspaper, not placed by the family but placed by a Hawaii agency that records such things?

What the hell else does she need?

She needs an umbilical cord with a Hawaiian lai.

7 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:13:31pm

re: #6 HappyWarrior

She needs an umbilical cord with a Hawaiian lai.

Or maybe just a Hawaiian lei would calm her down.

8 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:14:21pm

Goalposts on ice.

There is nothing unethical about this from a party standpoint because it wasn’t sent out to the party at large with any racist statements and it wasn’t signed as a central committee member.
9 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:14:28pm
That being said, I will NOT resign my central committee position over this matter that the average person knows and agrees is much to do about nothing.

I'd like to see Ms Davenport go up to the average black person, show them the email, then tell them portraying a black man and his family as apes is much ado about nothing.

10 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:15:13pm

re: #7 reine.de.tout

Or maybe just a Hawaiian lei would calm her down.

hehehe I think those folks may be a tad bit too dark for her.

11 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:15:36pm

The e-mail was despicable, her non-apology apology is despicable, and any defense of her is despicable.

12 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:16:18pm

re: #10 marjoriemoon

hehehe I think those folks may be a tad bit too dark for her.

*snicker*
She should get over it.

13 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:16:54pm

re: #5 mracb

It's strange how they have no problem doubling down on stupid these days.

She's not stupid. She knows damn well how offensive that email was - she simply doesn't care because she's a racist.

14 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:17:07pm

re: #12 reine.de.tout

*snicker*
She should get over it.

No shit.

15 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:17:11pm

I must admit, when I heard her statement defending herself, I was amazed to see she used all of the clichéd excuses all at once.

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:17:41pm

re: #7 reine.de.tout

Or maybe just a Hawaiian lei would calm her down.

Reine!

17 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:18:34pm

re: #13 Merryweather

She's not stupid. She knows damn well how offensive that email was - she simply doesn't care because she's a racist.

And she probably feel justified in her bigotry because of all the normalization bigotry has gone through the past several years.

18 Kragar  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:18:45pm

So her defense is she's a fucking idiot?

19 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:19:12pm

Pre-emptive magical balance:

"Well, that apology reminds me of insert Democrat name of choice here when he/she apologized for insert whatever here".

Now jamesfirecat can come on out and lecture me.

20 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:19:31pm
"Again, for those select few who might be truly offended by viewing a copy of an email I sent to a select list of friends and acquaintances, unlike the liberal left when they do the same, I offer my sincere apologies to you--the email was not meant for you. For any of my friends or acquaintances who were the recipients of my email and were truly offended, please call me so I may offer a sincere verbal apology to you."

Word salad non-apology.

"True apologies available by phone. If you don't have my number, I don't care how offended you might truly be."

21 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:19:37pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

Reine!

heheh Reine's mad and she's not going to take it anymore! Woot woot!

22 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:19:47pm

re: #9 Merryweather

I'd like to see Ms Davenport go up to the average black person, show them the email, then tell them portraying a black man and his family as apes is much ado about nothing.

She should print it on a t shirt and walk around south central.

23 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:20:20pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So her defense is she's a fucking idiot?

There is the implied excuse of being a bone head.

24 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:20:21pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

Reine!

What?
*blinking innocently*

25 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:21:03pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

She should print it on a t shirt and walk around south central.

Specify "South Central LA". She's in South Central Orange County, and thinks it represents reality.

26 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:21:08pm

re: #7 reine.de.tout

Or maybe just a Hawaiian lei would calm her down.

I'll take a lay with an Hawaiian... it would clam me down. (the pun was to had to resist... I apologize right now)

27 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:21:14pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So her defense is she's a fucking idiot?

Looks like it.

28 Kragar  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:21:21pm

re: #23 b_sharp

There is the implied excuse of being a bone head.

29 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:22:00pm

re: #20 wrenchwench

When I saw her first statements, this was the picture I thought of.

Image: politics+-+racist+bingo+card+1.jpg

30 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:22:09pm

I am not a bigot, I just like perpetuating bigoted myths.

31 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:22:14pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So her defense is she's a fucking idiot?

No... her defense is she;s a fucking idiot who is not racist... big difference.

32 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:23:14pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

She should print it on a t shirt and walk around south central.

I'm thinking of the scene in Die Hard 3 where Jeremy Irons forces Bruce Willis to walk through Harlem wearing a sandwich board saying "I Hate N*****s."

That would suit this woman.

33 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:23:21pm

re: #19 reine.de.tout

Pre-emptive magical balance:

"Well, that apology reminds me of insert Democrat name of choice here when he/she apologized for insert whatever here".

Now jamesfirecat can come on out and lecture me.

James is young and inexperienced and sometimes puts things stupidly. Just like I do. You forgive me.

Don't you?

34 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:24:11pm

re: #29 ProLifeLiberal

When I saw her first statements, this was the picture I thought of.

Image: politics+-+racist+bingo+card+1 .jpg

Linky no worky.

35 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:24:53pm

re: #33 b_sharp

James is young and inexperienced and sometimes puts things stupidly. Just like I do. You forgive me.

Don't you?

Oh, hell yeah.
Every thread is a new day.

36 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:24:57pm

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

No... her defense is she;s a fucking idiot who is not racist... big difference.

No she's a fucking idiot, a racist and a liar to boot.

She wants us to buy that she didn't know depicting Blacks as monkeys is not racist? I'm not sure how much more racist one can get.

In fact, the thought never entered my mind until one or two other people tried to make this about race.

37 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:25:52pm

re: #29 ProLifeLiberal

Somthing like this?
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

38 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:26:35pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

She should print it on a t shirt and walk around south central.

It'd be like Bruce Willis (as John McClane) standing in Harlem with a sign that says "I hate n***ers" in Die Hard with a Vengeance, though I don't think Samuel L. Jackson (as Zeus Carver) would be around to rescue them...

/if these fuckers were on fire, I wouldn't piss on them to put it out...

39 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:26:44pm

re: #35 reine.de.tout

Oh, hell yeah.
Every thread is a new day.

Thank you Scarlet.

40 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:26:52pm

re: #32 Merryweather

I'm thinking of the scene in Die Hard 3 where Jeremy Irons forces Bruce Willis to walk through Harlem wearing a sandwich board saying "I Hate N***s."

That would suit this woman.

GMTA...

41 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:27:14pm

re: #39 b_sharp

Thank you Scarlet.

:-)
We've had a pleasant exchange since then.
it's all cool.

42 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:28:16pm

re: #36 marjoriemoon

No she's a fucking idiot, a racist and a liar to boot.

She wants us to buy that she didn't know depicting Blacks as monkeys is not racist? I'm not sure how much more racist one can get.

Today is palm Sunday.

43 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:28:31pm

re: #40 talon_262

GMTA...

Heh. Indeed.

44 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:29:02pm
Marilyn Davenport is a staunch, ethical Republican lady.
45 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:29:15pm

I don't see why she should resign either, she was after all just representing her racist birther/teaparty OCRP membership. Removing her just lets them continue to claim that they are not racist and would never have dreamed of tolerating such behavior. ///

I don't really care if she leaves or not, it isn't as if it will change anything within the rank and file.

46 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:29:52pm

re: #37 jaunte

That's the one! I yelled Bingo in my head when I saw her comments.

47 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:29:53pm

Ugh. The rest of my post got eaten.

Anyway, these people have a really fucked up definition of the word "ethical".

48 engineer cat  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:30:18pm

birtherism civil war in gop gives birth to new birtherisms

wall st republican:
Peter Wehner explains why concentrating on birtherism is such a ludicrous trap for the GOP to be falling into. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Obama, conservatives don't need to add in conspiracy theories to delegitimize him.

wingnut
I don't care about the actual birth cert business, but I do think it is useful for an important reason. BO has hidden large parts of his life. [I've read several comments that he's spent a ton of money on legal fees to keep secrets (anyone got documentation on that?).]

Clearly, we have a news media that spent far more time and effort digging into Joe the Plumber's life than digging into BO's. That needs to change. If the birth cert gets the ball rolling, good. But the public is entitled to answers and BO hasn't delivered any at all.

49 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:31:19pm

re: #44 Lidane

Marilyn Davenport is a staunch, ethical Republican lady.

Therefore, nothing she does, as long as it's not signed as a central committee member, is bad. She's just really into that Birther stuff, as a private citizen.

50 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:31:22pm

I think she should stay too. She's really a perfect representation of the TGOP. Who else but Marilyn Davenport to represent the modern face of the revanchist TGOP. She should stay.

51 Kragar  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:31:25pm
52 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:31:26pm

re: #4 reine.de.tout

What the hell else does she need?

An explanation for how a black man with a funny name beat an old white guy to become POTUS.

53 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:32:17pm

re: #44 Lidane

Marilyn Davenport is a staunch, ethical Republican lady

Well, 3 out of 4 ain't bad.

Actually, scratch that, It's 0 out of 4 - people like her do not espouse actual Republicanism, so she's not a staunch one, and she's no lady.

54 Kragar  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:33:19pm

re: #49 wrenchwench

Therefore, nothing she does, as long as it's not signed as a central committee member, is bad. She's just really into that Birther stuff, as a private citizen.

So if she decided, for instance, to sell heroin to grade schoolers while dressed as a nun, as long as she did it as a private citizen and not as a central committee member, she can remain a party member in good standing?

55 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:34:24pm

What happened to our wingnut font?

It ain't working in all cases.

56 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:34:33pm

re: #36 marjoriemoon

No she's a fucking idiot, a racist and a liar to boot.

She wants us to buy that she didn't know depicting Blacks as monkeys is not racist? I'm not sure how much more racist one can get.

It was SARCASM...

57 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:34:36pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Atlas Shrugged works off the Cloward-Piven Strategy

Thousands of conservatives will go to watch Atlas Shrugged this weekend, likely failing to realize that the movie endorses the same kind of strategy Beck has warned could lead to "death camps" over the past year.

But they'll be our death camps!!!1!"

58 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:35:02pm

re: #55 b_sharp

What happened to our wingnut font?

Didn't work in Preview, but worked where it counts!

59 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:35:06pm

re: #55 b_sharp

What happened to our wingnut font?

Actually it doesn't work in preview so it punked me.

60 Merryweather  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:35:06pm

This Kung Fu Monkey "I Miss Republicans" post was written in 2004. I don't think any of us envisaged they would yet become 100 times worse than they were then already.

61 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:35:07pm

re: #21 marjoriemoon

heheh Reine's mad and she's not going to take it anymore! Woot woot!

Yes I am.
I hate seeing this stuff. If I get anything like this from somebody, their email is marked "junk" and I have nothing more to do with them, after I tell them just how much I do not appreciate that sort of "humor".

Am I suddenly a liberal? No way. But this stuff is so way out of line, for anyone. I can remember days when we would gloat here about how we were "better" than that. Many of us aren't, obviously, and yes, it makes me mad. WTF are these people thinking? How can they be so disrespectful of other people? Where are their brains, their manners, their love for their fellow humans? Where is it?

62 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:35:53pm

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So if she decided, for instance, to sell heroin to grade schoolers while dressed as a nun, as long as she did it as a private citizen and not as a central committee member, she can remain a party member in good standing?

Only if she sold it to minority grade schoolers. If she sold it to white kids, she'd be screwed.

63 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:36:26pm

re: #44 Lidane

re: #47 Lidane

Ugh. The rest of my post got eaten.

Anyway, these people have a really fucked up definition of the word "ethical".

If what this twisted, racist fuck can be and is considered "ethical" by the current GOP, even if it's just a local office, then I don't want to be even remotely associated with the party any longer.

Fuck it, this (and a whole lot of other shit, such as the Birthers, Palin, Huckabee, Fischer, etc.) has almost completely turned me off of the GOP unless this shit gets shitcanned totally, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

It's nice to be a free agent sometimes...

64 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:36:47pm

Brainfart Davenport

Again, for those select few who might be truly offended by viewing a copy of an email I sent to a select list of friends and acquaintances, unlike teh liberal left when they do the same, I offer my sincere apologies to you—the email was not meant for you

Teh librul left does it too!

Yep, she should stay.

65 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:38:47pm

re: #56 Walter L. Newton

It was SARCASM...

Damn Walter! I missed that one!

I'm 1 for 1 then. My apologies.

66 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:38:56pm

If the fact that the president was half-black did not occur to you before you sent this out?

You, sir, probably should not resign. You should be fired for cause.

The cause? You are obviously stupid beyond words.

67 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:39:38pm

re: #64 Gus 802

Brainfart Davenport

Teh librul left does it too!

. . .

argh.
Yes, there you go.
It does not matter who does what "too". It does not.
If it's wrong, it's wrong. And this is wrong. Period. And you do not do wrong just because "someone else" might have done it as well.

68 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:40:49pm

re: #67 reine.de.tout

argh.
Yes, there you go.
It does not matter who does what "too". It does not.
If it's wrong, it's wrong. And this is wrong. Period. And you do not do wrong just because "someone else" might have done it as well.

Yep. That's what makes her apology extra double lame.

"Yes, I'm sorry and even though what's his face does it too...I'm still sorry."

69 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:41:21pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

Yes I am.
I hate seeing this stuff. If I get anything like this from somebody, their email is marked "junk" and I have nothing more to do with them, after I tell them just how much I do not appreciate that sort of "humor".

Am I suddenly a liberal? No way. But this stuff is so way out of line, for anyone. I can remember days when we would gloat here about how we were "better" than that. Many of us aren't, obviously, and yes, it makes me mad. WTF are these people thinking? How can they be so disrespectful of other people? Where are their brains, their manners, their love for their fellow humans? Where is it?

Oh come on... come over to the dark side. Ill tell you what... we can do it en masse... you know... we'll get Steve and Dark Falcon... and even myself, and we'll all declare on the same day how we broke from the right... OK... sounds like fun.
/

70 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:41:24pm

re: #67 reine.de.tout

argh.
Yes, there you go.
It does not matter who does what "too". It does not.
If it's wrong, it's wrong. And this is wrong. Period. And you do not do wrong just because "someone else" might have done it as well.

You understand that. I understand that. They, for some reason, do not.

71 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:41:40pm

re: #65 marjoriemoon

Damn Walter! I missed that one!

I'm 1 for 1 then. My apologies.

It's ok... I'm difficult.

72 thecommodore  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:42:18pm

This is another example of how conservatives accuse liberals and/or the "liberal media" of hypocrisy whenever they get called out on something like this. I've seen numerous depictions of Obama as a monkey/primate/savage, etc, in addition to the Hitler/witch doctor references that became infamous during teabagger rallies, and whenever someone says, "Hey, you just called a black man a monkey. That's racist!" right wingers will pile on saying, "OH PEOPLE PORTRAYED BUSH AS A MONKEY, SO WHY CAN'T WE DO THAT TO OBAMA???"

As if that justifies what they did.

Some will even say that a monkey depiction of Obama isn't racist at all, neither is saying that he's "half black."

Unbelievable!

73 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:42:21pm

Someone said Marylin was stupid so she decided to Supersize™ her order and came up with this apology.

/

74 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:42:43pm

Some news from Britain in regards to Libya.

Sky News' Time Marshall says sources at UN suggest France and UK may seek to extend sanctions to bring Libyan TV off air #Libya #Feb17

If we wanted to get that looney station off the air wouldn't it be easier to just "accidentally" bomb it?

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:43:03pm

re: #19 reine.de.tout

Pre-emptive magical balance:

"Well, that apology reminds me of insert Democrat name of choice here when he/she apologized for insert whatever here".

Now jamesfirecat can come on out and lecture me.

Wait, I preemptively preempted your preemption. Yesterday. I think.

Nevermind. Stupid racists suck, regardless of party affiliations, and every grown-up should know how to apologize correctly.

76 thecommodore  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:43:07pm

re: #4 reine.de.tout

What the hell else does she need?

A straitjacket and a rubber room.

77 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:43:08pm

Marilyn Davenport, another "victim" of the "Liberal Media" who is being overly hypersensitive and claiming racism where none exists...I mean it isn't like depicting Black people as Monkeys has any kind off precedent as being racist or anything, who knew the bleeding heart liberals would think that that was racist? ///

Image: motivator3213631.jpg

78 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:44:36pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

Yes I am.
I hate seeing this stuff. If I get anything like this from somebody, their email is marked "junk" and I have nothing more to do with them, after I tell them just how much I do not appreciate that sort of "humor".

Am I suddenly a liberal? No way. But this stuff is so way out of line, for anyone. I can remember days when we would gloat here about how we were "better" than that. Many of us aren't, obviously, and yes, it makes me mad. WTF are these people thinking? How can they be so disrespectful of other people? Where are their brains, their manners, their love for their fellow humans? Where is it?

Oh I'm with ya. I just thought it was cute comment which isn't your usual.

You don't have to be liberal or conservative to be a bigot, of course. During the elections, I had a similar experience with a friend of mine who started sending me racist crap and when I pointed it out, she got really pissed. We are no longer friends. She was a liberal. We went to a John Kerry rally together, in fact.

The PUMAs walked a not-so-thin line with this too.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:46:02pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

She should print it on a t shirt and walk around south central.

And people would sloooowly back away from her, because a white woman in a racist t-shirt walking around South Central has got to be some kind of trap. Or something.

(I once ended up wandering around the Bay Area equivalent of South Central, not in a racist t-shirt, but in a business suit with a little portfolio in hand. I had to ask for directions from a teenage boy at a bus stop who actually jumped when he saw me. I made no sense in context. He maintained careful eye contact and watched to see what I was going to do next.)

80 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:46:19pm

Imagine two kid in class that don't get along with each other. One is black and the other white. So the white kid draws a sketch of the black kid with his parents and instead of the people in the sketch being people they're instead chimpanzees. Yes, I'm sure that would be taken as "a joke" by the teacher. Not likely. At the very least, this woman is severely stunted in her emotional and social development.

81 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:46:23pm

re: #78 marjoriemoon

Oh I'm with ya. I just thought it was cute comment which isn't your usual.

You don't have to be liberal or conservative to be a bigot, of course. During the elections, I had a similar experience with a friend of mine who started sending me racist crap and when I pointed it out, she got really pissed. We are no longer friends. She was a liberal. We went to a John Kerry rally together, in fact.

The PUMAs walked a not-so-thin line with this too.

How can you be racist and progressive? It doesn't make sense to me.

82 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:47:00pm
staunch, ethical Republican lady

Does the word "staunch" connote "borderline sadistic, pathologically authoritarian asshole" for anyone else, or is that just my personal baggage? Genuinely interested in knowing.

83 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:47:16pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

And people would slooowly back away from her, because a white woman in a racist t-shirt walking around South Central has got to be some kind of trap. Or something.

(I once ended up wandering around the Bay Area equivalent of South Central, not in a racist t-shirt, but in a business suit with a little portfolio in hand. I had to ask for directions from a teenage boy at a bus stop who actually jumped when he saw me. I made no sense in context. He maintained careful eye contact and watched to see what I was going to do next.)

He thought you were a Jehovah's Witness.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:47:22pm

re: #32 Merryweather

I'm thinking of the scene in Die Hard 3 where Jeremy Irons forces Bruce Willis to walk through Harlem wearing a sandwich board saying "I Hate N***s."

That would suit this woman.

Is it Kentucky Fried Movie where you see the skinny white guy in the tracksuit warming up, and then trotting over to a bunch of young black guys and yelling "N*****s!" and running like hell?

85 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:47:45pm

re: #81 b_sharp

How can you be racist and progressive? It doesn't make sense to me.

Got some in-laws in england who are very liberal, except they are pretty racist against the roma. They just don't see it.

86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:48:13pm

re: #82 negativ

Does the word "staunch" connote "borderline sadistic, pathologically authoritarian asshole" for anyone else, or is that just my personal baggage? Genuinely interested in knowing.

yeha, "Staunch" is one of those words that is just a big warning sign that you're about to hear amazing dipshittery

87 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:48:26pm

re: #82 negativ

Does the word "staunch" connote "borderline sadistic, pathologically authoritarian asshole" for anyone else, or is that just my personal baggage? Genuinely interested in knowing.

IT'S NOT JUST YOU

88 jamesfirecat  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:49:07pm

re: #60 Merryweather

This Kung Fu Monkey "I Miss Republicans" post was written in 2004. I don't think any of us envisaged they would yet become 100 times worse than they were then already.

Somehow my love for Leverage and the people behind it just increased, and I thought that impossible.

89 steve_davis  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:49:12pm

re: #36 marjoriemoon

No she's a fucking idiot, a racist and a liar to boot.

She wants us to buy that she didn't know depicting Blacks as monkeys is not racist? I'm not sure how much more racist one can get.

Wait, something weird happened with the double negation in that sentence. I think you may have accidentally created a tear in the fabric of polyestereality...a wrinkle in time, so to speak, if I can use that term without being sued for copyright infringement.

90 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:49:12pm

re: #78 marjoriemoon

You don't have to be liberal or conservative to be a bigot, of course. During the elections, I had a similar experience with a friend of mine who started sending me racist crap and when I pointed it out, she got really pissed. We are no longer friends. She was a liberal. We went to a John Kerry rally together, in fact.

The PUMAs walked a not-so-thin line with this too.

God, tell me about it. All the racist shit from the PUMAs is part of what turned me off to the left-wing blogosphere during the 2008 election. Well, that and all the ZOMG IT'S HILLARY'S TURN drama.

Bigotry and idiocy exist on all sides. That doesn't justify sending a photo of a black president as an ape. You're still a racist tool if you do that and then try to invoke the Magical Balance Fairy.

91 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:49:25pm

re: #62 Lidane

Only if she sold it to minority grade schoolers. If she sold it to white kids, she'd be screwed.

Minority grade schoolers know better than to buy their crank from nuns.

//I have no idea what that means, even.

92 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:49:40pm

re: #85 WindUpBird

Got some in-laws in england who are very liberal, except they are pretty racist against the roma. They just don't see it.

I've always considered civil rights a cornerstone of liberalism/progressivism. Simple naivety I guess.

93 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:50:02pm

re: #81 b_sharp

How can you be racist and progressive? It doesn't make sense to me.

There's plenty of racism on both sides. It's just more obvious with the mouth breathers on the right, because they're loud and obnoxious about it.

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:50:51pm

re: #92 b_sharp

I've always considered civil rights a cornerstone of liberalism/progressivism. Simple naivety I guess.

Well, of course it IS, but people can be jerks :(

95 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:51:40pm

re: #93 Lidane

There's plenty of racism on both sides. It's just more obvious with the mouth breathers on the right, because they're loud and obnoxious about it.

oh yeah!

the difference is always thus: Republicans make the racism part of their platform

96 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:52:47pm

re: #81 b_sharp

How can you be racist and progressive? It doesn't make sense to me.

hehe progressively racist?

The issue (at least to me) is not a question of which groups of people have racist ideology. All groups of people have racist ideology, but the Right is using their inner racist with abandon no matter if they piss us godless progressives or people in their own party.

97 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:53:02pm

re: #48 engineer dog

birtherism civil war in gop gives birth to new birtherisms

wall st republican:
Peter Wehner explains why concentrating on birtherism is such a ludicrous trap for the GOP to be falling into. There are plenty of reasons to oppose Obama, conservatives don't need to add in conspiracy theories to delegitimize him.

wingnut
I don't care about the actual birth cert business, but I do think it is useful for an important reason. BO has hidden large parts of his life. [I've read several comments that he's spent a ton of money on legal fees to keep secrets (anyone got documentation on that?).]

Clearly, we have a news media that spent far more time and effort digging into Joe the Plumber's life than digging into BO's. That needs to change. If the birth cert gets the ball rolling, good. But the public is entitled to answers and BO hasn't delivered any at all.

I'm beginning to understand wingnut so I will translate: "How in the world did this fancy talking, uppity ni**er get anyone to vote for him, except other ni**ers? He must have fooled people somehow someway. I mean he has to have a shady background, because after all he's a ni**er! No ni**er could beat a white man in an election far and square. If we prove the shady past that we know he has, people won't vote for him again, right?"

98 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:53:15pm

re: #4 reine.de.tout

Lack of forthrightness? Nobody knows where he was born?

Hasn't he said he was born in Hawaii? Isn't there a birth certificate showing that yes, he was indeed born in Hawaii? Isn't there a birth announcement in the newspaper, not placed by the family but placed by a Hawaii agency that records such things?

What the hell else does she need?

'lack of forthrightness', indeed. That's why she chose a photoshop that showed Obama's parents as chimps. The only way that could not be seen as racist would be if the sender was utterly ignorant of the racial history of this country. With that highly unlikely, the only conclusion I can draw is that Marilyn Davenport is an 'out-and-proud' bigot.

99 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:53:27pm

re: #92 b_sharp

I've always considered civil rights a cornerstone of liberalism/progressivism. Simple naivety I guess.

Civil rights ARE a cornerstone of liberalism/progressivism. That doesn't mean that people can't be douchebags, or condescending pricks that don't realize they're being racists.

100 Four More Beers  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:53:55pm

"I'm sorry if my email offended anyone." Well, that means you're not sorry, doesn't it? The other night, Kobe Bryant called a ref a "fag," and then said "I'm sorry if I offended anyone." Jayzus, the fucktard level these days is alarming.

101 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:54:23pm

She's so dumb she now qualifies for membership in the Klu Klutz Klan.

//

102 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:54:29pm

All you need to know about the Orange County GOP is right here

Not that they're racist (which yeah) it's just they're just so dumb, just so laughably stupid


if I was anyone ANYONE in the GOP in power down there, I'd have this woman's political career destroyed post haste

103 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:54:33pm

re: #89 steve_davis

Wait, something weird happened with the double negation in that sentence. I think you may have accidentally created a tear in the fabric of polyestereality...a wrinkle in time, so to speak, if I can use that term without being sued for copyright infringement.

LOL Some people are chided for posting while drunk. Me? It's posting while seriously pissed off.

104 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:55:25pm

re: #103 marjoriemoon

LOL Some people are chided for posting while drunk. Me? It's posting while seriously pissed off.

I'm the same way, I TRY to leave when I get pissed, sometimes I succeed, sometimes not *_*

105 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:55:33pm

re: #102 WindUpBird

All you need to know about the Orange County GOP is right here

Not that they're racist (which yeah) it's just they're just so dumb, just so laughably stupid

if I was anyone ANYONE in the GOP in power down there, I'd have this woman's political career destroyed post haste

Why don't we all find out her contact info and give her a piece of our mind, or someone higher up than her.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:57:13pm

re: #85 WindUpBird

Got some in-laws in england who are very liberal, except they are pretty racist against the roma. They just don't see it.

That's pretty common in a lot of Europe.

I had a very weird encounter with a young classmate, absolutely classic progressive moonbat kid, who had done a study-abroad thing in Hungary, and had absorbed all the ugly crap her hosts had said about the Roma as absolute truth--even though she would have been able to accurately identify much, much milder stuff about Native Americans or Latinos as racist. Weird. Breakdown of critical thinking.

107 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:57:16pm

re: #97 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'm beginning to understand wingnut so I will translate: "How in the world did this fancy talking, uppity ni**er get anyone to vote for him, except other ni**ers? He must have fooled people somehow someway. I mean he has to have a shady background, because after all he's a ni**er! No ni**er could beat a white man in an election far and square. If we prove the shady past that we know he has, people won't vote for him again, right?"

Put this way, I'm seeing many parallels between how the wingnuts treat President Obama and how Bart was treated and talked to in most of Blazing Saddles, though I don't see the same happy ending from the wingnuts as we got in the movie.

/BTW, Mel Brooks was and is a sly genius

108 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:57:50pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

Why don't we all find out her contact info and give her a piece of our mind, or someone higher up than her.

'Someone higher' would be the way to go. There's nothing to be done with a bigoted birther like her until they are willing to admit they've been a bigot. Until that happens, the only thing to do is ostracize them.

109 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:58:29pm

Americans still linking blacks to apes
February 8, 2008

Crude historical depictions of African Americans as ape-like may have disappeared from mainstream U.S. culture, but research presented in a new paper by psychologists at Stanford, Pennsylvania State University and the University of California-Berkeley reveals that many Americans subconsciously associate blacks with apes.

In addition, the findings show that society is more likely to condone violence against black criminal suspects as a result of its broader inability to accept African Americans as fully human, according to the researchers.

Co-author Jennifer Eberhardt, a Stanford associate professor of psychology who is black, said she was shocked by the results, particularly since they involved subjects born after Jim Crow and the civil rights movement. “This was actually some of the most depressing work I have done,” she said. “This shook me up. You have suspicions when you do the work—intuitions—you have a hunch. But it was hard to prepare for how strong [the black-ape association] was—how we were able to pick it up every time.”

Continues.

110 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:58:34pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

Why don't we all find out her contact info and give her a piece of our mind, or someone higher up than her.

I can't really spare any of my mind, I'm running low as it is, and being a member of the Canuckistan Communist State, I doubt my ire would mean anything to her, but I do support the idea.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:59:00pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

Well, of course it IS, but people can be jerks :(

And everyone finds ways of justifying their personal racism or assholery. People who call themselves progressive are no more immune to this than anyone else.

112 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 1:59:16pm

re: #107 talon_262

Put this way, I'm seeing many parallels between how the wingnuts treat President Obama and how Bart was treated and talked to in most of Blazing Saddles, though I don't see the same happy ending from the wingnuts as we got in the movie.

/BTW, Mel Brooks was and is a sly genius

113 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:00:46pm

Race and the ape image
Research indicates that associating blacks with apes is deeply embedded and has disturbing effects.

February 28, 2009|Phillip Atiba Goff and Jennifer L. Eberhardt | Social psychologists Phillip Atiba Goff and Jennifer L. Eberhardt are professors at UCLA and Stanford University, respectively.

An apology has been issued. The protests are fading. And it may be tempting to dismiss the uproar over the provocative chimpanzee cartoon in the New York Post last week as just another "race card" dust-up.

But that would obscure an underlying reality captured in the Post situation and demonstrated by research we have conducted: Some racial associations are embedded so deeply that they are difficult to recognize, much less eradicate -- and they continue to shape our behavior and ideas.

Continues.

114 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:01:06pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

That's pretty common in a lot of Europe.

I had a very weird encounter with a young classmate, absolutely classic progressive moonbat kid, who had done a study-abroad thing in Hungary, and had absorbed all the ugly crap her hosts had said about the Roma as absolute truth--even though she would have been able to accurately identify much, much milder stuff about Native Americans or Latinos as racist. Weird. Breakdown of critical thinking.

Being chimps, we have a natural tendency to go tribal, but as humans we should be able to go beyond our tribal genetics. If we want to draw a division between us and all the other animals, that ability has to be part of the story.

115 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:01:18pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

That's pretty common in a lot of Europe.

I had a very weird encounter with a young classmate, absolutely classic progressive moonbat kid, who had done a study-abroad thing in Hungary, and had absorbed all the ugly crap her hosts had said about the Roma as absolute truth--even though she would have been able to accurately identify much, much milder stuff about Native Americans or Latinos as racist. Weird. Breakdown of critical thinking.

That's because we deal with Latinos frequently and are also instructed on the need to avoid racist language regarding them. But the Roma are alien to most Americans, whereas the people in Europe who spout the hate are much less so. So we can easily listen to the more familiar people and accept that the people we don't know as bad. 'Go along to get along' also plays a role, of course.

116 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:01:49pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

'Someone higher' would be the way to go. There's nothing to be done with a bigoted birther like her until they are willing to admit they've been a bigot. Until that happens, the only thing to do is ostracize them.

There is one OC GOP official who has publicly condemned her for this and past actions and called for her resignation or termination. But I don't know how much power or influence he has. Unfortunately, he's probably getting all kinds of heat from her defenders, I hope he doesn't back down and gets support from other OC Republicans.

117 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:02:01pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Race and the ape image
Research indicates that associating blacks with apes is deeply embedded and has disturbing effects.

LA Times, huh? I guess Ms. Davenport doesn't read that one.

118 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:02:36pm

re: #110 b_sharp

I can't really spare any of my mind, I'm running low as it is, and being a member of the Canuckistan Communist State, I doubt my ire would mean anything to her, but I do support the idea.

Well. my google-fu is not so good, can't find any apparent contact info, too many hits on links to this incident, plain-jane type links probably buried under all this recent commotion... I'll keep trying... no I won't post here, but I may give a clue.

This kind of shit really bothers me.

119 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:02:46pm

re: #109 Gus 802

Americans still linking blacks to apes
February 8, 2008

Depressing isn't it?

120 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:03:07pm

re: #119 b_sharp

Depressing isn't it?

Yes, it is.

121 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:04:08pm

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

And everyone finds ways of justifying their personal racism or assholery. People who call themselves progressive are no more immune to this than anyone else.

You are painfully cutting my preconceived ideas to the bone.

122 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:05:36pm

re: #116 moderatelyradicalliberal

There is one OC GOP official who has publicly condemned her for this and past actions and called for her resignation or termination. But I don't know how much power or influence he has. Unfortunately, he's probably getting all kinds of heat from her defenders, I hope he doesn't back down and gets support from other OC Republicans.

Quite Concur. And he should hold the line and refuse to back down. This is a point on which I myself would call "a hill I'm prepared to die on". You can't let this racist shit just pass by, you have to condemn it. And if they call you a RINO and vote you out of your position for doing that, so be it.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:06:45pm

re: #116 moderatelyradicalliberal

There is one OC GOP official who has publicly condemned her for this and past actions and called for her resignation or termination. But I don't know how much power or influence he has. Unfortunately, he's probably getting all kinds of heat from her defenders, I hope he doesn't back down and gets support from other OC Republicans.

The local GOP chairman has called for her resignation, guy named Scott Baugh. If she doesn't comply, the party's ethics panel will hold a hearing.

The OCGOP seems to be doing all the right stuff, which is not so easy when your palm is glued to your face.

124 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:06:56pm

re: #109 Gus 802

Americans still linking blacks to apes
February 8, 2008

I've often wondered if the opposition to Darwinism came from in some part this connecting black people with apes. For hundreds of years you had black people being thought of as apes or apelike and then along comes this scientists who says that human beings as a whole are related to apes, including white people........cut to white people losing their shit and all hell breaks loose. Darwin basically said "Well you're a monkey too!".

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:07:26pm

re: #121 b_sharp

You are painfully cutting my preconceived ideas to the bone.

Sorry 'bout that.

126 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:07:37pm

re: #121 b_sharp

You are painfully cutting my preconceived ideas to the bone.

Good. Preconceived notions need cutting every so often. It's part of how we maintain contact with reality.

127 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:08:04pm

re: #124 moderatelyradicalliberal

I've often wondered if the opposition to Darwinism came from in some part this connecting black people with apes. For hundreds of years you had black people being thought of as apes or apelike and then along comes this scientists who says that human beings as a whole are related to apes, including white people...cut to white people losing their shit and all hell breaks loose. Darwin basically said "Well you're a monkey too!".

Good point. I'm sure that played into it.

128 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:08:07pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

There's nothing to be done with a bigoted birther like her until they are willing to admit they've been a bigot. Until that happens, the only thing to do is ostracize them.

Hows that working out so far?

Only 38% of Republican primary voters say they're willing to support a candidate for President next year who firmly rejects the birther theory and those folks want Mitt Romney to be their nominee for President next year. With the other 62% of Republicans- 23% of whom say they are only willing to vote for a birther and 39% of whom are not sure- Donald Trump is cleaning up. And as a result Trump's ridden the controversy about Barack Obama's place of birth to the highest level of support we've found for anyone in our national GOP polling so far in 2011.

129 M. Dubious  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:09:51pm

I'm expecting Marilyn Davenport to issue a further explaination, something along the lines of "I don't see how this is racist - I can't even tell which one is supposed to be Obama!".

130 What, me worry?  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:10:09pm

Even more than her lying and bigotry, the magical balance fairy when comparing to Chimp Bush makes my blood boil.

Actually, it's a typical response from dyed in the wool racists. I've read so many internet comments, and not from racist sites which I rarely frequent, but mainstream news, CNN, Yahoo, Fox and scads of local papers. who call the people who point out racism the real racists. See, she had no idea about the racist ideology. It's you fucking racists that saw it! Why do you hate white people so much, hhmmm??

Arrghhh

131 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:10:43pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. And he should hold the line and refuse to back down. This is a point on which I myself would call "a hill I'm prepared to die on". You can't let this racist shit just pass by, you have to condemn it. And if they call you a RINO and vote you out of your position for doing that, so be it.

We'll see who the GOP is willing to defend and stand behind; if it's the member denouncing Davenport, then at least the OCGOP makes it clear they won't (openly) tolerate racist bullshit.

If they back Davenport and make things very difficult for her detractor(s), then we know the OCGOP, at the very least, tacitly condones racist bullshit, which tells me all I need to know.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:11:13pm

re: #124 moderatelyradicalliberal

I've often wondered if the opposition to Darwinism came from in some part this connecting black people with apes. For hundreds of years you had black people being thought of as apes or apelike and then along comes this scientists who says that human beings as a whole are related to apes, including white people...cut to white people losing their shit and all hell breaks loose. Darwin basically said "Well you're a monkey too!".

But it's kind of obvious that we're apes. We LOOK like apes.

But yeah, that might well have something to do with it.

133 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:11:32pm

re: #130 marjoriemoon

Even more than her lying and bigotry, the magical balance fairy when comparing to Chimp Bush makes my blood boil.

Actually, it's a typical response from dyed in the wool racists. I've read so many internet comments, and not from racist sites which I rarely frequent, but mainstream news, CNN, Yahoo, Fox and scads of local papers. who call the people who point out racism the real racists. See, she had no idea about the racist ideology. It's you fucking racists that saw it! Why do you hate white people so much, hhmmm??

Arrghhh

That's the David Duke philosophy of life, right there in bold.

134 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:11:36pm

I found a picture of the city of Misratah in Libyua, where the rebels have been under siege for 60+ days in dire conditions, with 550k civilians in the area too. The place has been blasted to ruin, and now more resembles Stalingrad during WWII.

[Link: www.arabist.net...]

135 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:11:49pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

The local GOP chairman has called for her resignation, guy named Scott Baugh. If she doesn't comply, the party's ethics panel will hold a hearing.

The OCGOP seems to be doing all the right stuff, which is not so easy when your palm is glued to your face.

hopefully they boot her. Anyone who doesn't accept her being booted should be told: "There's the door. Feel free to flounce out through it. But don't forget your hood when you leave."

136 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:11:49pm

How much of this idea Africans are closer to primitive apes than Europeans is because of our ability to form associations with minimal information? Africa is the cradle of hominids and several members of the family still live there, including some that do not exist outside of Africa. Do we subconsciously draw a wrong association just because of that knowledge?

137 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:14:08pm

re: #130 marjoriemoon

Even more than her lying and bigotry, the magical balance fairy when comparing to Chimp Bush makes my blood boil.

Actually, it's a typical response from dyed in the wool racists. I've read so many internet comments, and not from racist sites which I rarely frequent, but mainstream news, CNN, Yahoo, Fox and scads of local papers. who call the people who point out racism the real racists. See, she had no idea about the racist ideology. It's you fucking racists that saw it! Why do you hate white people so much, hhmmm??

Arrghhh

"I know you are, but what am I?"

138 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:14:43pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

But it's kind of obvious that we're apes. We LOOK like apes.

But yeah, that might well have something to do with it.

Historically, humans have resisted the scientific fact that we are animals. It's a but like the "man on the street question". Times have changed and less people believe this. But it used to be that most people didn't want to accept that we are indeed animals.

139 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:15:37pm

re: #128 goddamnedfrank

How did they establish who was a Republican primary voter? I didn't see an explanation of that.

140 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:15:39pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

But it's kind of obvious that we're apes. We LOOK like apes.

But yeah, that might well have something to do with it.

Darwin wasn't the first to make that link, he was just the first to take a number of ideas along the same line, combine them, formalize them and back it with observational evidence.

141 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:16:13pm

Hmm. My grammar/typing is all screwy today.

142 engineer cat  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:17:00pm

"A Greater Impact On The Environment Than Any Other Single Organism In History"

And it wasn't a good impact.

Back in the twenties, there were two difficult problems plaguing the auto and consumer goods industries in general and General Motors in particular: one was the tendancy of gasoline to burn too quickly and cause car engines to "knock", and the other was the ironic habit that refrigerator coolants had of catching fire and burning up the refrigerator.

General Motors subsidiary Dayton Research Labs put a certain Thomas Midgley jr, Cornell graduate in mechanical engineering, on the case. In 1922 he found that tetraethyl lead would do the trick. The problem, of course, is that lead is poisonous. GM marketed the additive under the deceitful brand name 'Ethyl', and set about fending off critics who pointed out the obvious. In the meantime, Midgley quietly took a years vacation during 1923 to recover from lead poisoning.

But the controversy wouldn't end. At the various plants that GM set up to produce the additive, there were numerous cases of hallucinations, insanity, and deaths due to lead poisoning. In Oct 1924, Midgley himself tried to put an end to the bad press by staging a public demonstration where he poured tetraethyl lead over his hands and then put the bottle under his nose and inhaled the fumes for 60 seconds, declaring that he could do this every day without harm.

He then quietly took another year's vacation to recover from the effects of this demonstration.

The next project was refrigerants. Compounds used at the time included ammonia, cloromethane, propane, and sulfur dioxide. Midgley and his team came up with the idea of combining fluorine with hydrocarbons creating dichlorofluoromethane, the first chlorofluorocarbon. The idea was to exploit the volatility of fluorine needed for refrigeration, but bond it to carbons for stability. This was marketed as 'Freon'. As a moral matter, one has to give Midgley a pass here, since it wasn't at all clear at the time that CFCs would damage the ozone layer and eventually be banned.

Midgley received a number of awards for his work, but fate was not done with him. In 1940, at the age of 51, Midgley contracted severe polio. He rigged up a system of "strings and pulleys" to help others lift him out of bed, but met his fate at the age of 55 when he became entangled in the device and strangled.

It is still possible to believe in the unqualified advance of technology and science, but it is clear now that often a technological solution causes almost as many problems as it solves. Some historians now even cast the Neolithic Revolution - the invention of farming - as an emergency stopgap measure that took on a life of its own, causing human populations to grow out of control. Clearly, things like atomic energy and automobiles are not unambiguous technological wins. Thomas Midgley's life reads like a parable of that phenomenon. In spades.

(p.s. the quote used as the title is from environmental historian J.R. McNeil)

143 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:18:34pm

re: #140 b_sharp

Darwin wasn't the first to make that link, he was just the first to take a number of ideas along the same line, combine them, formalize them and back it with observational evidence.

True, but mention that to Marilyn Davenport and she'd say:

So you're a Darwinist, huh? That just proves why you support Obama!1 You want to promote godlessness and socialism in order to destroy the America of our founders and replace it with a socialist tyranny!!11

144 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:18:38pm

Por ejemplo...

Do Creationists Claim That Humans Are Not Animals?

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

No, not obvious. Human Beings are unique creations.

If you were to agree with Creationists like me, you would be of the belief that Human Beings are created in the image of God and that we are not related to other creatures (especially since we are supposed to have dominion over the creatures of the earth).

Hope that helps.

145 b_snark  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:18:58pm

Our innate abilities give us great power but they can also screw up our view of reality.

I have to go to get ready for the grandkid's birthday. He turned 15 today.

146 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:19:58pm

re: #136 b_sharp

How much of this idea Africans are closer to primitive apes than Europeans is because of our ability to form associations with minimal information? Africa is the cradle of hominids and several members of the family still live there, including some that do not exist outside of Africa. Do we subconsciously draw a wrong association just because of that knowledge?

I think more so, everything we see and hear, the messages we get both directly and indirectly, stay in our subconscious minds even if our conscious minds reject them as being wrong or bad. It's like if I go out on a date, I want to be attractive, but not too sexy. My conscious mind knows there is probably nothing I could wear or not wear if I have the terrible misfortune of going on a date with a rapist, but my subconscious mind says be careful of how I dress so I don't give the wrong impression. My mind is full of messages both, direct and indirect that women who dress in a sexually provocative manner are "asking" for trouble. I know that's wrong and misogynistic, but on some level I have absorbed that misogyny.

147 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:21:39pm

COMMUNION AND STEWARDSHIP: Human Persons Created in the Image of God - The Vatican

80. Nonetheless, there is an ontological difference between human beings and animals because only man is created in the image of God and God has given him sovereignty over the animal world (Gen. 1:26,28; Gen. 2: 19-20). Reflecting the Christian tradition about a just use of the animals, the Catechism of the Catholic Church affirms: “God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure” (2417). This passage also recalls the legitimate use of animals for medical and scientific experimentation, but always recognizing that it is "contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer needlessly" (2418). Thus, any use of animals must always be guided by the principles already articulated: human sovereignty over the animal world is essentially a stewardship for which human beings must give an account to God who is the lord of creation in the truest sense.

148 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:24:27pm

re: #147 Gus 802

COMMUNION AND STEWARDSHIP: Human Persons Created in the Image of God - The Vatican

That's an acceptable stand, since the Catholic church doesn't use that stand to dismiss evolution or to justify racism. It also does not give humans absolute dominion over animals, but rather renders them accountable to God (thus those who are cruel to animals will be held to account, if not in this life then in the next).

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:24:42pm

re: #145 b_sharp

Our innate abilities give us great power but they can also screw up our view of reality.

I have to go to get ready for the grandkid's birthday. He turned 15 today.

ain't that the truth

the better and more knowledgable you become about something, the more your brain adapts to that knowledge, and the further your understanding moves from those who don't have such knowledge

150 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:25:23pm

I'm composing an email to Baugh right now.

151 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:25:42pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

That's an acceptable stand, since the Catholic church doesn't use that stand to dismiss evolution or to justify racism. It also does not give humans absolute dominion over animals, but rather renders them accountable to God (thus those who are cruel to animals will be held to account, if not in this life then in the next).

Only Desdinova has dominion over animals

YEAH! Most obscure Blue Oyster Cult reference ever

152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:26:14pm

re: #151 WindUpBird

note to everyone: this song is pretty mellow and easy to get into :D

153 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:26:46pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

How did they establish who was a Republican primary voter? I didn't see an explanation of that.

Polls are always subject to bias because they in part rely on self-identification. My guess is the identified GOP primary voters by asking if they planned on voting in the GOP primary and maybe asked if they had voted GOP in the last election. That or they used actual voter rolls. I also think the numbers are believable simply because people who are motivated by a bigotry or prejudice are more likely to be single issue voters who will vote that issue every time they get the chance. Any time the birthers get a chance to send Obama and "f u", they will take it. Voting for a birther in the primaries may be the only chance they get to vote for a birther so they will most certainly take the opportunity to do so during the primaries before they have to settle for voting for Romney or Pawlenty in the general election.

154 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:28:08pm

re: #151 WindUpBird

Only Desdinova has dominion over animals

[Video]YEAH! Most obscure Blue Oyster Cult reference ever

More cowbell!

155 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:28:30pm

Here's an upcoming OCGOP event:

Capistrano Valley Republican Women, Federated -- JOHN DREW, Ph.D. -- "WHY OBAMA'S PAST IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIS FUTURE"

Join us for breakfast & hear an ex-Marxist who knew Barack Obama during his college days -- John Drew, Ph.D. He received his Ph.D. in Government, Politics, & Policy from Cornell University; and has taught at some of our leading universities. John was one of the founders of the anti-apartheid group that Pres. Obama mentions in his book, Dreams of the Father. His intriguing talk, "Why Obama's Past is More Important Than His Future" will be a memorable one! Forget about 6-degrees of separation...You will be 1-degree separated from our telegenic president once you meet John. Not that THAT really matters. (Just a thought.) Our ex-Marxist Conservative Powerhouse ROCKS! Don't miss him!

*Interested in a sneak peak of his upcoming talk, please visit the following link: [Link: anonymouspoliticalscientist.blogspot.com...]

Please RSVP: Sue Schultz[no phone numbers allowed] or esue39@cox.net

Price: $20.00 (includes breakfast)

This Wednesday! Don't miss it!

(I looked at the blogspot link. The guy seems to be a crank cashing in on the coincidence of being at Occidental at the same time as Obama. Doesn't even remember meeting him until later.)

156 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:28:46pm

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

More cowbell!

SNL sketch aside, they're one of the most influential rock bands of the 20th century

157 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:29:30pm

re: #154 Dark_Falcon

More cowbell!

half the bands I like would literally not exist were it not for BOC, one of my favorites has the BOC logo TATTOOED ON HIS CHEST


think of them as the Stones for sci-fi geeks :D

158 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:29:32pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

That's an acceptable stand, since the Catholic church doesn't use that stand to dismiss evolution or to justify racism. It also does not give humans absolute dominion over animals, but rather renders them accountable to God (thus those who are cruel to animals will be held to account, if not in this life then in the next).

But the point is that it's been long taught that humans beings are not part of the animal kingdom and the product or result of biology and evolution. That humans are "the other" and "created in God's image". The statement itself "Nonetheless, there is an ontological difference between human beings and animals because only man is created in the image of God and God has given him sovereignty over the animal world" is a scientific falsehood. The statement "man is created in the image of God" is completely the opposite of evolutionary science so in itself it dismisses evolution on its own merits.

159 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:29:57pm

Here's an interesting read that some may find interesting.....
Once fundamental muslim, now pot smoking bacon eating lesbian
AMA threads on Reddit stand for "Ask Me Anything" some interesting conversation.

160 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:30:51pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

Here's an upcoming OCGOP event:

This Wednesday! Don't miss it!

(I looked at the blogspot link. The guy seems to be a crank cashing in on the coincidence of being at Occidental at the same time as Obama. Doesn't even remember meeting him until later.)

Well see there Donald Chump, there's somebody who remembers Obama from college.
//

161 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:31:47pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

Here's an upcoming OCGOP event:

This Wednesday! Don't miss it!

(I looked at the blogspot link. The guy seems to be a crank cashing in on the coincidence of being at Occidental at the same time as Obama. Doesn't even remember meeting him until later.)

This election


this election is going to be the weirdest election we may ever see in our lives

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:32:48pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

Here's an upcoming OCGOP event:

This Wednesday! Don't miss it!

(I looked at the blogspot link. The guy seems to be a crank cashing in on the coincidence of being at Occidental at the same time as Obama. Doesn't even remember meeting him until later.)

If all he has is Occidental, then he's got fairly little. Obama was very socialist when he was an undergrad, but he became I good bit more practical once he got to Columbia. So Occidental counts for less than some would maintain.

163 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:34:02pm

re: #158 Gus 802

But the point is that it's been long taught that humans beings are not part of the animal kingdom and the product or result of biology and evolution. That humans are "the other" and "created in God's image". The statement itself "Nonetheless, there is an ontological difference between human beings and animals because only man is created in the image of God and God has given him sovereignty over the animal world" is a scientific falsehood. The statement "man is created in the image of God" is completely the opposite of evolutionary science so in itself it dismisses evolution on its own merits.

Well, I never learned in Catholic school or through Catholic teaching that evolution was to be dismisssed. What I did learn was that there's faith, and there's science; and the two are not incompatible.

The "created in God's image" has to do with man's eternal soul, which we believe mankind has, but animals do not. It doesn't have anything to do with the science of how life developed and evolved.

164 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:34:56pm

re: #163 reine.de.tout

Well, I never learned in Catholic school or through Catholic teaching that evolution was to be dismisssed. What I did learn was that there's faith, and there's science; and the two are not incompatible.
. . .

And you can see how strongly I feel about it, having hisss-sssed the word dismisss with extra s's.

165 Kragar  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:35:26pm

Will someone please notify the dingoes that baby-snatching is no longer allowed because of that whole dominion thing?

166 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:36:03pm

re: #158 Gus 802

But the point is that it's been long taught that humans beings are not part of the animal kingdom and the product or result of biology and evolution. That humans are "the other" and "created in God's image". The statement itself "Nonetheless, there is an ontological difference between human beings and animals because only man is created in the image of God and God has given him sovereignty over the animal world" is a scientific falsehood. The statement "man is created in the image of God" is completely the opposite of evolutionary science so in itself it dismisses evolution on its own merits.

Not really. You can accept evolution and still believe that God directed that process to produce a creation greater than all the others on earth. And both religion and the law treat humans very differently from any other type of creature, so it's valid in my eyes. But you and I do have different views of religion, so we're quite unlikely to agree on this matter. Best to drop it.

167 Gus  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:36:28pm

Later.

168 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:36:55pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

The same guy is speaking that evening to the Anaheim Republican Assembly Meeting.

Dr. Drew is an award-winning political scientist and a blogger at David Horowitz’s NewsReal Blog
169 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:37:46pm

re: #161 WindUpBird
OT: I found an independent book store in Philly. It is near Head House Square. [Link: headhouse.indiebound.com...]

170 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:40:16pm

re: #163 reine.de.tout

Well, I never learned in Catholic school or through Catholic teaching that evolution was to be dismisssed. What I did learn was that there's faith, and there's science; and the two are not incompatible.

As opposing viewpoints, no. They're not incompatible. It's when faith is used to try and explain or dismiss science, or as a substitute for science, that there's a problem.

171 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:40:18pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Will someone please notify the dingoes that baby-snatching is no longer allowed because of that whole dominion thing?

A dingo ate your baby?

///

172 freetoken  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:42:55pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

Drew is a fan of Jack Cashill:

[...]

My only difference with Cashill is that I’m not impressed with the quality of Dreams from My Father.
This is true even after Cashill’s book single-handedly improved my taste as a consumer of contemporary literature. My reading of Dreams did not leave me with any useful paradigm shifts, any evidence of encyclopedic knowledge or any immediately relevant information. I think it is more accurate to assert that President Clinton’s book, My Life, articulates the insights and raw memory capacity of a true genius. In comparison to My Life, I found Dreams dull and boring - except for the parts tangentially related to my own intellectual development or linked to my nearly insignificant participation in what Obama reports were the pivotal, life-changing moments of his sophomore year at Occidental College.

[...]

173 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:45:43pm
This is true even after Cashill’s book single-handedly improved my taste as a consumer of contemporary literature.

If Cashill improved his tastes, you really have to wonder what the hell he was reading before that.

174 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:45:49pm

When I read Davenport's letter I can't help but here it in a voice dripping with sarcasm. Particularly, "In no way did I even consider the fact he’s half black when I sent out the email." A lot of Obama haters seem particularly hung up the "half black" thing. I can't decide if it's from their hatred of "miscegenation" or if they mean it as an excuse, like "Since he's only half white that makes me only half racist, maximum."

Also love the part at the end about "sincere apologies". So to paraphrase:

"You're all a bunch of idiots and I did nothing wrong and I offer my sincere apologies."

175 Fortitudine  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:46:08pm

Davenport may not have set a record for self-righteous cluelessness but she sure has set a mark for others to aim at.

176 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:46:47pm

re: #174 Charleston Chew

And, yes, I got the spelling of "hear" wrong.

177 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:47:00pm

re: #175 Fortitudine

Davenport may not have set a record for self-righteous cluelessness but she sure has set a mark for others to aim at.

Give both Caribou Barbie and Trump a couple of days. They'll find a way to top her in the douchebag department. Can't have some lowly peon from the OC upstaging them, after all.

178 freetoken  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:47:12pm

re: #173 Lidane

Orange county is full of people like that. They are the ones who will think that Atlas Shrugged is a great movie.

179 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:48:11pm

re: #156 WindUpBird

SNL sketch aside, they're one of the most influential rock bands of the 20th century

They are good stuff. My idea of the best band evah would be 1/4 BOC, 1/4 The Replacements, 1/4 Husker Du & 1/4 Velvet Underground.

But BOC needs to get Patty Smith writing their lyrics again.

180 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:48:29pm

re: #177 Lidane

Give both Caribou Barbie and Trump a couple of days. They'll find a way to top her in the douchebag department. Can't have some lowly peon from the OC upstaging them, after all.

"Welcome to the OC, bitch!"

/Sorry, but The OC was one of my favorite TV shows.

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:49:07pm

re: #136 b_sharp

How much of this idea Africans are closer to primitive apes than Europeans is because of our ability to form associations with minimal information? Africa is the cradle of hominids and several members of the family still live there, including some that do not exist outside of Africa. Do we subconsciously draw a wrong association just because of that knowledge?

Hard to tell. Of course, that's all modern knowledge, and the trend certainly begins before we know any of that. Also, other groups, the Irish for example, were compared to apes.

But I also know that when we were talking about human evolution in class, some of my students were clearly nervous, and would make tense comments about 'why's it always got to be Africa'--the upshot being, they weren't comfortable with the idea that these early monkey-looking people were being connected with the continent many of their ancestors came from. They watched closely for racial 'tells' on the Neanderthal and such. We talked about it.

182 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:49:34pm

re: #177 Lidane

Give both Caribou Barbie and Trump a couple of days. They'll find a way to top her in the douchebag department. Can't have some lowly peon from the OC upstaging them, after all.

Trump seems to be going more towards cartoonish super-villainy these days.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:50:17pm

re: #145 b_sharp

Our innate abilities give us great power but they can also screw up our view of reality.

I have to go to get ready for the grandkid's birthday. He turned 15 today.

Happy birthday to him!

184 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:51:38pm

re: #172 freetoken

Drew is a fan of Jack Cashill:

He also has this to say about the Obama of Occidental:

Also, this photo illustrates other themes I've communicated regarding the young Obama including the fact that I never saw him with a girl and that he was strikingly effeminent at the time. The larger point, of course, is that the picture of himself that he created in Dreams from My Father is very different from the real Obama that I knew during the 1980-1981 school year.


That's the photo my brother (Oxy '82) posted on Facebook last week (his was without the caption.)

185 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:52:15pm

re: #182 Charleston Chew

Trump seems to be going more towards cartoonish super-villainy these days.

Well, since the reactor disaster in Japan has forced Monty Burns into hiding, some one has to pick up the slack.

186 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:52:27pm

Speaking of God, he's apparently talking to the Mars contingent:

Bachmann: God Told Me To Introduce Constitutional Amendment Prohibiting Same-Sex Marriage In MN

187 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:54:41pm

re: #186 Lidane

Oy Vey. I do not want to hear or read the next revelation from Bachmann.

188 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:54:58pm

re: #184 wrenchwench

He also has this to say about the Obama of Occidental:


That's the photo my brother (Oxy '82) posted on Facebook last week (his was without the caption.)

Is that an authentic photo? The face looks way too old, like the present-day Obama, to be a young college kid. It looks like somebody Photoshopped the President's face onto a kid.

189 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:55:55pm

re: #184 wrenchwench

He also has this to say about the Obama of Occidental:


That's the photo my brother (Oxy '82) posted on Facebook last week (his was without the caption.)

Of course the wingnuts will love that. Obama's a girly man and a closet ghey. Whatever dude, Obama probably could and probably did have any chick he wanted. Still could. Even white wimmenz!

190 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:55:57pm

re: #184 wrenchwench

Effeminent? Who taught Cashill English?

191 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:56:43pm

re: #188 Alouette
You are right. It does not look right.

192 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:57:40pm

re: #190 jaunte

I'm wrong, that's Drew's spelling.

193 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:58:05pm

re: #188 Alouette

Is that an authentic photo? The face looks way too old, like the present-day Obama, to be a young college kid. It looks like somebody Photoshopped the President's face onto a kid.

It only came to my attention last week. The caption indicates it was found in a box at Occidental, and my brother didn't suspect it of anything.

194 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:58:36pm

re: #186 Lidane

Speaking of God, he's apparently talking to the Mars contingent:

Bachmann: God Told Me To Introduce Constitutional Amendment Prohibiting Same-Sex Marriage In MN

She's confusing God with the voices in her head.

/kidding

In reality, she's showing true fanaticism.

195 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 2:59:21pm

Here's a picture of Obama as a college student from the LA Times.

196 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:00:00pm

re: #190 jaunte

Effeminent? Who taught Cashill English?

Effeminent sounds like a "female hygiene" product that comes in spearmint, peppermint, and wintergreen. "Now not just your breath can be minty fresh!"

197 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:00:10pm
198 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:00:18pm

re: #190 jaunte

Effeminent? Who taught Cashill English?

Those were the words of

John C. Drew, Ph.D. [who] is an award-winning political scientist.

He's speaking to the OCGOP at two events this Thursday. So I'm sure he's been thoroughly vetted.

//

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:01:48pm

re: #174 Charleston Chew

When I read Davenport's letter I can't help but here it in a voice dripping with sarcasm. Particularly, "In no way did I even consider the fact he’s half black when I sent out the email." A lot of Obama haters seem particularly hung up the "half black" thing. I can't decide if it's from their hatred of "miscegenation" or if they mean it as an excuse, like "Since he's only half white that makes me only half racist, maximum."

Also love the part at the end about "sincere apologies". So to paraphrase:

"You're all a bunch of idiots and I did nothing wrong and I offer my sincere apologies."

The 'half-black' thing was very big for a while, and continues.

There are a number of layers to it, but the key parts seem to be a. I'm not racist if I hate his white half too, hardy har har and b. He's trying to get away with playing the race card and being all oppressed, but he's just HALF black. So he's being racist, or sneaky, or something.

One thing I've seen on several blogs, and note that Zombie was peddling here back in the day is the idea that maybe he's listed as 'white' on the long-form original birth certificate, which, they believe would completely undermine the whole premise behind his becoming the president.

"He's lying about everything! He's even lying about being black!!!"

(This may be linked to another issue the nutters sometimes bring up, which is that his black ancestry isn't African-American, so he doesn't have American slave ancestry, and his ancestors were probably slave traders, hardy-har-har.)

200 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:03:18pm

re: #198 wrenchwench

He's been oppressed:

According to Drew, his present conservative world view resulted, in large part, from adult rejections, as he was denied tenure in a series of teaching jobs, he believes, due to affirmative action policies, for which he blames the Democratic Party and deserves “reparations.”
[Link: ohforgoodnesssake.com...]
201 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:04:27pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

The 'half-black' thing was very big for a while, and continues.

There are a number of layers to it, but the key parts seem to be a. I'm not racist if I hate his white half too, hardy har har and b. He's trying to get away with playing the race card and being all oppressed, but he's just HALF black. So he's being racist, or sneaky, or something.

One thing I've seen on several blogs, and note that Zombie was peddling here back in the day is the idea that maybe he's listed as 'white' on the long-form original birth certificate, which, they believe would completely undermine the whole premise behind his becoming the president.

"He's lying about everything! He's even lying about being black!!!"

(This may be linked to another issue the nutters sometimes bring up, which is that his black ancestry isn't African-American, so he doesn't have American slave ancestry, and his ancestors were probably slave traders, hardy-har-har.)

If the races would just stay separate we wouldn't have all this chaos and confusion!!!1!

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:05:17pm

re: #187 PhillyPretzel

Oy Vey. I do not want to hear or read the next revelation from Bachmann.

You're just jealous because the voices talk to her.

203 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:05:52pm

re: #186 Lidane

Speaking of God, he's apparently talking to the Mars contingent:

Bachmann: God Told Me To Introduce Constitutional Amendment Prohibiting Same-Sex Marriage In MN

I thought the way this worked was, God talked to her husband, and her husband talked to her.

204 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:06:24pm

re: #190 jaunte

re: #198 wrenchwench

Here is the correct spelling from The Free Dictionary. [Link: www.thefreedictionary.com...]

205 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:06:33pm

re: #198 wrenchwench

Those were the words of

He's speaking to the OCGOP at two events this Thursday. So I'm sure he's been thoroughly vetted.

//

I never liked the use of the term "science" in political science. IMO, real science is a lot more rigorous.

206 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:07:02pm

re: #200 jaunte

He's been oppressed:

The poor baby!

There are a lot of us @_ccm with the same story of being harmed by affirmative action. Democrats don’t understand our anger.

I would have had to name that blog, "Oh for fuck's sake", but they kept the "G" rating.

207 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:07:11pm

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

It is good to spiel with correctment.

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:08:10pm

re: #200 jaunte

He's been oppressed:

Oh, poor baby. My heart is bleeding purple Kool-Aid.

209 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:08:34pm

re: #205 Charleston Chew

I never liked the use of the term "science" in political science. IMO, real science is a lot more rigorous.

As the holder of a bachelor of arts in sociology, I have to agree with you.

210 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:08:53pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

The 'half-black' thing was very big for a while, and continues.

There are a number of layers to it, but the key parts seem to be a. I'm not racist if I hate his white half too, hardy har har and b. He's trying to get away with playing the race card and being all oppressed, but he's just HALF black. So he's being racist, or sneaky, or something.

One thing I've seen on several blogs, and note that Zombie was peddling here back in the day is the idea that maybe he's listed as 'white' on the long-form original birth certificate, which, they believe would completely undermine the whole premise behind his becoming the president.

"He's lying about everything! He's even lying about being black!!!"

(This may be linked to another issue the nutters sometimes bring up, which is that his black ancestry isn't African-American, so he doesn't have American slave ancestry, and his ancestors were probably slave traders, hardy-har-har.)

Well, Obama's African origins are very different that most African Americans, being East African rather than West African. But that proves nothing about Barack Obama other than the ethnicity of his father. His personal identity has always been African-American and how a man sees himself and what others accept him as matters far more than ethnic origins themselves do. The BS spewers are just haters looking to hate.

211 SteelGHAZI  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:09:09pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

Anger that isn't based in reality is always hard to understand.

212 engineer cat  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:09:17pm

i ate some Effeminents™ and now my breath is insecure about its masculinity and smells like original intent

213 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:09:21pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

I like the writer's conclusion:

Preliminarily, I conclude the wingers are being led down the garden path by yet another bull-jiver, who, quite obviously, is playing out some personal psychodrama with the President.
[Link: ohforgoodnesssake.com...]
214 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:11:05pm

re: #212 engineer dog
Oh g-d. I am laughing so hard I am crying.

215 allegro  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:11:15pm

re: #166 Dark_Falcon

And both religion and the law treat humans very differently from any other type of creature, so it's valid in my eyes.

Did any other animals get any input into human religion or law? That might suggest a bit of a bias that would disallow these as evidence.

216 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:11:32pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist


One thing I've seen on several blogs, and note that Zombie was peddling here back in the day is the idea that maybe he's listed as 'white' on the long-form original birth certificate, which, they believe would completely undermine the whole premise behind his becoming the president.

I've noticed that a lot of these people have deluded themselves into thinking that every white person who voted for Obama did so entirely out of some kinda "white guilt" only because he's black, so I can see why they would fantasize that if it came out that he was "really" white he would lose all support and somehow be impeached or something.

217 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:11:58pm

re: #199 SanFranciscoZionist

The 'half-black' thing was very big for a while, and continues.

There are a number of layers to it, but the key parts seem to be a. I'm not racist if I hate his white half too, hardy har har and b. He's trying to get away with playing the race card and being all oppressed, but he's just HALF black. So he's being racist, or sneaky, or something.

One thing I've seen on several blogs, and note that Zombie was peddling here back in the day is the idea that maybe he's listed as 'white' on the long-form original birth certificate, which, they believe would completely undermine the whole premise behind his becoming the president.

"He's lying about everything! He's even lying about being black!!!"

(This may be linked to another issue the nutters sometimes bring up, which is that his black ancestry isn't African-American, so he doesn't have American slave ancestry, and his ancestors were probably slave traders, hardy-har-har.)

The weirdest this about the birtherism crap is that is says nothing about Barack Obama. Let's say for a second that his "long form" birth certificate says that he's white and a Muslim. So what? He was a new born baby. He didn't put it there himself. It would have no bearing on him or what he chose as an adult. When I was in the third grade a teacher marked me as Native American by mistake. Did that suddenly make me Native American? Of course not. If a cat has kitten in an oven, are they muffins? Good Lord these people are so stupid.

218 jaunte  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:13:01pm

re: #217 moderatelyradicalliberal

You see how deep the conspiracy goes. Generations!

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:14:32pm

re: #216 Charleston Chew

I've noticed that a lot of these people have deluded themselves into thinking that every white person who voted for Obama did so entirely out of some kinda "white guilt" only because he's black, so I can see why they would fantasize that if it came out that he was "really" white he would lose all support and somehow be impeached or something.

All of us race-obsessed Dems would demand our votes back, and Obama would be doomed.

220 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:15:43pm

re: #200 jaunte

He's been oppressed:

re: #209 wrenchwench

As the holder of a bachelor of arts in sociology, I have to agree with you.

The most successful politicians seem to me to be more artist than scientist, as well.

221 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:15:55pm

re: #213 jaunte

I like the writer's conclusion:

Sounds about right. They need to forget about this "deep background" BS and focus on getting things done, like pushing through a properly restrained budget. But that would would require them to actually look at reality, instead of just spouting off.

/facepalm

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:16:44pm

re: #217 moderatelyradicalliberal

Good Lord these people are so stupid.

Desperate. They have to believe that there is something out there that, if revealed, will make everyone see Obama they way they do.

223 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:17:21pm

re: #216 Charleston Chew

I've noticed that a lot of these people have deluded themselves into thinking that every white person who voted for Obama did so entirely out of some kinda "white guilt" only because he's black, so I can see why they would fantasize that if it came out that he was "really" white he would lose all support and somehow be impeached or something.

This is also very stupid. Obama won about 42% of the white vote, the same percentage won by Kerry and Gore. He basically won or didn't win all of the groups that Democrats have one or not won by the roughly the same percentages. The white people who voted for Obama for the most part would have voted for any Democrat because they are Democrats or liberal leaning independents. There was no "white" guilt at work or he would have gotten a higher percentage of the white vote than other Democrats. These people lack critical thinking skills.

224 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:17:38pm

re: #215 allegro

Did any other animals get any input into human religion or law? That might suggest a bit of a bias that would disallow these as evidence.

They don't get input. That's the point. Dogs are not sentient, they cannot think. Humans are their stewards in this world, and we are held to account by God in that regard.

225 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:17:40pm

re: #213 jaunte

I like the writer's conclusion:

The conclusion of that conclusion:

I don’t see how he dines out much longer on this story, as it stands. If he makes it juicier, say, a blowjob in the back of a limo, a somewhat longer time.

The guy is getting breakfast on Wednesday....

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:19:37pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

All of us race-obsessed Dems would demand our votes back, and Obama would be doomed.

Because it's a well-known fact that the Democratic party has never sent a white man to the White House.

227 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:19:40pm

re: #217 moderatelyradicalliberal

The weirdest this about the birtherism crap is that is says nothing about Barack Obama. Let's say for a second that his "long form" birth certificate says that he's white and a Muslim. So what? He was a new born baby. He didn't put it there himself. It would have no bearing on him or what he chose as an adult. When I was in the third grade a teacher marked me as Native American by mistake. Did that suddenly make me Native American? Of course not. If a cat has kitten in an oven, are they muffins? Good Lord these people are so stupid.

Didn't you know? Being Muslim is like being Black—one drop of the hated, feared blood taints you and supersedes everything else.

228 HappyWarrior  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:20:03pm

re: #223 moderatelyradicalliberal

This is also very stupid. Obama won about 42% of the white vote, the same percentage won by Kerry and Gore. He basically won or didn't win all of the groups that Democrats have one or not won by the roughly the same percentages. The white people who voted for Obama for the most part would have voted for any Democrat because they are Democrats or liberal leaning independents. There was no "white" guilt at work or he would have gotten a higher percentage of the white vote than other Democrats. These people lack critical thinking skills.

THe white guilt crap was just a bunch of right wing bullshit designed to insult Democratic voters. I voted for Obama because I agreed with him more than I did McCain. I think the only thing worse than that is those who argue that people voted for Obama because he thought he'd give them stuff and I've seen that argued here sometimes and it offends me. It's typical right wing condescending bullshit.

229 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:20:12pm

re: #220 Charleston Chew

oops, superfluous reply at the top there.

230 allegro  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:21:25pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

They don't get input. That's the point. Dogs are not sentient, they cannot think. Humans are their stewards in this world, and we are held to account by God in that regard.

Um.... :X

231 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:23:59pm

re: #230 allegro

What does that emocon mean? I Googled it and got several different answers.

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:24:10pm

re: #227 CuriousLurker

Didn't you know? Being Muslim is like being Black—one drop of the hated, feared blood taints you and supersedes everything else.

For a time, the nutters were obsessed with the idea that Obama was 'automatically' Muslim because his father was Muslim and Islam considers religion to pass through the father's line.

People would point out, mildly, that we've got freedom of religion around here, and Obama identifies as a Christian, and people would 'worry' that because he was going to be seen as an 'apostate'...something. Muslim leaders would shun him. He would be assassinated. Islam would take over his brain with long-distance broadcasting.

Since he's been elected, and except for a couple of polite, "And his father was a Muslim!" exclamations, the Muslim world doesn't seem to much care, that has dropped off a bit.

233 allegro  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:25:06pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

What does that emocon mean? I Googled it and got several different answers.

It means I'm keeping my mouth shut before I say things I may regret later.

234 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:25:51pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

What does that emocon mean? I Googled it and got several different answers.

it's the scrunched up closed mouth aw jeez face

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:26:14pm

re: #233 allegro

It means I'm keeping my mouth shut before I say things I may regret later.

Fair enough.

236 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:27:04pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

They don't get input. That's the point. Dogs are not sentient, they cannot think. Humans are their stewards in this world, and we are held to account by God in that regard.

hahaha they can't think? What? Really?

What does a seeing eye dog do? is it a robot? Is there a bearded man in a room at Google just running all the seeing-eye dogs on earth like a bunch of remote controlled cars

237 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:27:23pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

For a time, the nutters were obsessed with the idea that Obama was 'automatically' Muslim because his father was Muslim and Islam considers religion to pass through the father's line.

People would point out, mildly, that we've got freedom of religion around here, and Obama identifies as a Christian, and people would 'worry' that because he was going to be seen as an 'apostate'...something. Muslim leaders would shun him. He would be assassinated. Islam would take over his brain with long-distance broadcasting.

Since he's been elected, and except for a couple of polite, "And his father was a Muslim!" exclamations, the Muslim world doesn't seem to much care, that has dropped off a bit.

Again these people lack critical thinking skills. If Obama is a Muslim because his father was a Muslim (he was actually an atheist) then that would mean that his daughters were also Muslims. They are simpletons who are stuck on stupid.

238 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:27:24pm

re: #234 WindUpBird

it's the scrunched up closed mouth aw jeez face

Thanks. One of the alternative answers I had was "puke" and I didn't think allegro was being insulting. I'm glad I was right, though I never had any doubts.

239 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:27:31pm

re: #223 moderatelyradicalliberal

This is also very stupid. Obama won about 42% of the white vote, the same percentage won by Kerry and Gore. He basically won or didn't win all of the groups that Democrats have one or not won by the roughly the same percentages. The white people who voted for Obama for the most part would have voted for any Democrat because they are Democrats or liberal leaning independents. There was no "white" guilt at work or he would have gotten a higher percentage of the white vote than other Democrats. These people lack critical thinking skills.

I voted for Al Gore solely out of guilt about what we did to the Saxons. You know, like a thousand years ago. My ancestors are from all over Europe so surely some of them kicked some Saxon ass at some point.* And since I voted Democrat racial guilt is, of course, my only motivation.

*And I mean literally kicked a Saxon's donkey.

240 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:28:12pm

re: #239 Charleston Chew

I voted for Al Gore solely out of guilt about what we did to the Saxons. You know, like a thousand years ago. My ancestors are from all over Europe so surely some of them kicked some Saxon ass at some point.* And since I voted Democrat racial guilt is, of course, my only motivation.

*And I mean literally kicked a Saxon's donkey.

LOL.

241 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:30:50pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

They don't get input. That's the point. Dogs are not sentient, they cannot think. Humans are their stewards in this world, and we are held to account by God in that regard.

My cats can tell the difference between the exhaust notes on my car and my partner's car, and will be waiting by the door even if they were asleep before. We've set up a webcam and watched it happen. And it's because we represent different things to them (I'm more playful, he's the one who feeds 'em) and they always wait by the door for my partner's car.

Note that I live in a dense, urban neighborhood with like 15 cars outside our door parked and getting in and out all day and night. They don't bat an ear. That Volvo comes home? They go nuts.

They may not be purely sentient, but they think a LOT. And that's a cat!


God is not a thing I really want to talk about in regard to animal sentience, it seems like arbitrary nonsense to me, like claiming batman could beat up Mike Tyson or something

242 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:31:05pm

Animal cognition is actually quite an interesting subject. Animals are smarter than most people think. Nova did a short little program on it a while back, you can stream it from here: [Link: www.pbs.org...]

243 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:31:35pm

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. One of the alternative answers I had was "puke" and I didn't think allegro was being insulting. I'm glad I was right, though I never had any doubts.

puke would be this: . _ + ~ @~~~ D:

244 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:32:14pm

re: #242 prononymous

Animal cognition is actually quite an interesting subject. Animals are smarter than most people think. Nova did a short little program on it a while back, you can stream it from here: [Link: www.pbs.org...]

fucking crows USE TOOLS! They use tools and work in teams to build things.

They're terrifyingly intelligent.

Dolphins, don't even get me started on how smart dolphins are. Thanks for all the fish!

245 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:32:57pm

re: #232 SanFranciscoZionist

For a time, the nutters were obsessed with the idea that Obama was 'automatically' Muslim because his father was Muslim and Islam considers religion to pass through the father's line.

People would point out, mildly, that we've got freedom of religion around here, and Obama identifies as a Christian, and people would 'worry' that because he was going to be seen as an 'apostate'...something. Muslim leaders would shun him. He would be assassinated. Islam would take over his brain with long-distance broadcasting.

Since he's been elected, and except for a couple of polite, "And his father was a Muslim!" exclamations, the Muslim world doesn't seem to much care, that has dropped off a bit.

Yeah, I remember that. It was a new one on me becuase there's no such rule that I ever heard of until they started claiming it to be so. Every Muslim, regardless of whether they're raised as such form birth or convert, has to take the shahadah when they are of age to be cognizant of what they are testifying to.

Muslims believe that the shahadah is without value unless it is earnest. Islamic scholars have therefore developed, based on the data of the Quran and hadith, essential criteria for an expression of the shahadah to be earnest. These criteria are generally divided into seven or eight or nine individual criteria; the varying numbers and orderings are not due to disagreements about what the criteria actually are, but rather different ways of dividing them.

One such list of seven critical conditions of the shahadah, without which it is considered to be meaningless, are as follows:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:34:41pm

re: #245 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I remember that. It was a new one on me becuase there's no such rule that I ever heard of until they started claiming it to be so. Every Muslim, regardless of whether they're raised as such form birth or convert, has to take the shahadah when they are of age to be cognizant of what they are testifying to.

Random brain connection, but a movie I really want to recommend to you, if you like sad foreign movies, is "The Wedding Song".

247 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:35:19pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Random brain connection, but a movie I really want to recommend to you, if you like sad foreign movies, is "The Wedding Song".

Thanks!

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:35:35pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

if crows are as smart as great apes, and a dog can correctly assess traffic conditions, the height of their owners, whether their owners need insulin...

...then what are they doing, if not thinking?

Sentience is a scale. I've met humans who aren't really sentient. They're so disabled that they behave as infants. Or so stupid and violent that they behave as dumb animals. The brain is a pattern recognition device, that's it. Ours are more complex than animals. But the brain serves the same function in a dog. Dogs feel fear, dogs get sad.

249 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:38:07pm

re: #248 WindUpBird

...assess the height of their owners while leading their blind owner down the street. a thousand times a second. Every obstacle. Every low hanging thing. Every broken sidewalk. every ditch, every step, every ramp, every pole, every railing, every door, every railing. A seeing eye dog knows when something cannot be traversed by its owner. When it's too tall, when the stairs are too treacherous.

if that isn't laser close to sentience, I don't know what is. A man giving his entire life to trust to a dog, to get him across the street.

What DO you call that?

250 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:38:34pm

re: #249 WindUpBird

every railing twice!

251 allegro  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:40:10pm

re: #249 WindUpBird

Thank you for making the point. I begin to sputter when it is suggested that humans are the only sentient creatures on the planet. It is so ignorant and arrogant and so far from reality.

252 CuriousLurker  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:40:31pm

re: #246 SanFranciscoZionist

Random brain connection, but a movie I really want to recommend to you, if you like sad foreign movies, is "The Wedding Song".

Speaking of movies, I've had "To Die in Jerusalem" in my Netflix instant queue for a couple of months now, but cant quite bring myself to watch it becuase I know it's gonna be painful & depressing.

253 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:41:02pm

As usual, the conspiracy goes deeper than any of these tea-party sleuths can imagine:
Obama with parents, 1961

254 sagehen  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:43:54pm

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

I'll take a lay with an Hawaiian... it would clam me down. (the pun was to had to resist... I apologize right now)

As a big fan of the new Hawaii Five-0, I have to point out -- big difference whether you're speaking of McGarrett or Kamekona. I for one would not react the same way to offers from both.

255 Charleston Chew  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:45:35pm

re: #253 Shiplord Kirel

As usual, the conspiracy goes deeper than any of these tea-party sleuths can imagine:
Obama with parents, 1961

Aha! He is white! I knew it!

256 wrenchwench  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:48:19pm

re: #255 Charleston Chew

Aha! He is white! I knew it!

Looks like a Gray to me.

257 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:50:02pm

re: #244 WindUpBird

fucking crows USE TOOLS! They use tools and work in teams to build things.

They're terrifyingly intelligent.

Dolphins, don't even get me started on how smart dolphins are. Thanks for all the fish!

Even seemingly "lower" animals can be surprisingly intelligent. Fish and even some invertebrates can learn, think, and problem solve.

re: #248 WindUpBird

re: #249 WindUpBird

In a way dogs are particularly special. Because they have evolved alongside us for so long it actually influenced our mutual evolutionary path. We have a symbiotic relationship. Considering that we have dominion just because we are more commanding is a little short sighted, IMO.

258 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:57:39pm

re: #257 prononymous

hive minds :D


and yeha, we have domesticated dogs to the point where in their unconscious minds, they recognize humans from birth

259 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 3:59:23pm

re: #251 allegro

Thank you for making the point. I begin to sputter when it is suggested that humans are the only sentient creatures on the planet. It is so ignorant and arrogant and so far from reality.

it's just weird superstition

weird superstition and sky-men-gods have no place in the science of understanding the mechanics of animal and human brains

No God is pulling levers on individual neurons, that shit ain't happening

wouldn't it be great if churches as a whole, as part of their values, acknowledged science instead of trying to fight it? Oh well. Stupid us.

260 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:01:41pm

re: #251 allegro

Thank you for making the point. I begin to sputter when it is suggested that humans are the only sentient creatures on the planet. It is so ignorant and arrogant and so far from reality.

also, i think the attitude that we have some God-given dominion over all creatures, is where a lot of animal cruelty come from. "if they don't think then I can do what I want with them!"

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:05:10pm

re: #255 Charleston Chew

Aha! He is white! I knew it!

Gray, really.

262 Lidane  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:18:06pm

re: #260 WindUpBird

also, i think the attitude that we have some God-given dominion over all creatures, is where a lot of animal cruelty come from. "if they don't think then I can do what I want with them!"

Exactly. Believing that an animal doesn't have a soul, or that they don't think or feel any kind of suffering leads to people not taking better care of animals. In fact, you could argue that this kind of thinking is what has led to the current factory farm conditions we have, where half the meat supply is tainted and diseased. Why bother giving animals decent conditions to live in if they don't have the ability to suffer?

263 sagehen  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:22:17pm

re: #244 WindUpBird

fucking crows USE TOOLS! They use tools and work in teams to build things.

They're terrifyingly intelligent.

Dolphins, don't even get me started on how smart dolphins are. Thanks for all the fish!

Thank god they don't have opposable thumbs, or we'd really be in trouble. (also, that dolphins are unlikely to discover fire...)

264 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:23:40pm

re: #248 WindUpBird

if crows are as smart as great apes, and a dog can correctly assess traffic conditions, the height of their owners, whether their owners need insulin...

...then what are they doing, if not thinking?

Sentience is a scale. I've met humans who aren't really sentient. They're so disabled that they behave as infants. Or so stupid and violent that they behave as dumb animals. The brain is a pattern recognition device, that's it. Ours are more complex than animals. But the brain serves the same function in a dog. Dogs feel fear, dogs get sad.

Dogs also, it's been discovered, have sounds, barks, they make solely for the purpose of communicating with humans - these aren't sounds used to communicate with other dogs or other animals, they are used only to communicate with a human. Dogs are truly amazing. And yes, they think. So do cats. I've watched my animals go outside, look around, and THINK about where it is they want to go off to. They're not guessing. They're not just trotting off. They've made a decision about where they want to go; and to do that, they have to have thought about it.

265 sagehen  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:26:47pm

re: #257 prononymous

In a way dogs are particularly special. Because they have evolved alongside us for so long it actually influenced our mutual evolutionary path. We have a symbiotic relationship. Considering that we have dominion just because we are more commanding is a little short sighted, IMO.

We have dominion because they chose to let us... and because we can operate the can opener.

266 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:32:19pm

re: #264 reine.de.tout

Dogs also, it's been discovered, have sounds, barks, they make solely for the purpose of communicating with humans - these aren't sounds used to communicate with other dogs or other animals, they are used only to communicate with a human. Dogs are truly amazing. And yes, they think. So do cats. I've watched my animals go outside, look around, and THINK about where it is they want to go off to. They're not guessing. They're not just trotting off. They've made a decision about where they want to go; and to do that, they have to have thought about it.

did you ever see the guy who rigged a collar camera and recording apparatus to his cat's collar so he could see where his cat was exploring? :D

267 theheat  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:32:49pm

re: #262 Lidane

This is a cause I've been involve with for years (animal abuse, factory farming, dominionism).

Right now, farms in Florida (and a couple other states) would like to make it a felony to photograph farms because so many "stings" have uncovered rampant abuse. Meaning, you take a photo of a farm with starving animals without permission, the starver/abuser can have you charged with a felony.

This is not a joke. It's a Republican effort, like so many others, to protect the abusers/polluters/fucker-over-ers. And it has support among the (coincidentally) majority fundie farmer base, who by and large embrace dominionism.

That's not to say every farmer is an abuser. But there are plenty out there, and many would not have been exposed except for photographic or video evidence. And now the Republicans want to insulate them, chanting all kinds of typical "states rights," "property rights," anti-EPA, anti-environment, anti-humane bullshit they're not just famous for, but own.

Fundie farmers and the GOP have a symbiotic relationship, sick as shit.

268 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:33:53pm

re: #262 Lidane

Exactly. Believing that an animal doesn't have a soul, or that they don't think or feel any kind of suffering leads to people not taking better care of animals. In fact, you could argue that this kind of thinking is what has led to the current factory farm conditions we have, where half the meat supply is tainted and diseased. Why bother giving animals decent conditions to live in if they don't have the ability to suffer?

yupre: #267 theheat

This is a cause I've been involve with for years (animal abuse, factory farming, dominionism).

Right now, farms in Florida (and a couple other states) would like to make it a felony to photograph farms because so many "stings" have uncovered rampant abuse. Meaning, you take a photo of a farm with starving animals without permission, the starver/abuser can have you charged with a felony.

This is not a joke. It's a Republican effort, like so many others, to protect the abusers/polluters/fucker-over-ers. And it has support among the (coincidentally) majority fundie farmer base, who by and large embrace dominionism.

That's not to say every farmer is an abuser. But there are plenty out there, and many would not have been exposed except for photographic or video evidence. And now the Republicans want to insulate them, chanting all kinds of typical "states rights," "property rights," anti-EPA, anti-environment, anti-humane bullshit they're not just famous for, but own.

Fundie farmers and the GOP have a symbiotic relationship, sick as shit.


Oh man, there's so much evil synergy there

269 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:34:07pm

re: #268 WindUpBird

oh god that comment went all sideways

270 theheat  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 4:37:03pm

re: #269 WindUpBird

Read some here.

271 sauceruney  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 5:02:12pm

re: #15 ProLifeLiberal

I must admit, when I heard her statement defending herself, I was amazed to see she used all of the clichéd excuses all at once.

That's what made me think it was an Onion article, at first. But sadly, no.

272 Fenris  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 5:38:28pm

What is it with jerks in power and absolute refusal to resign? Mubarak, Ghadaffi, Walker, Davenport...

273 unwashed masses  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 6:05:23pm

It puzzles me how oblivious these people are. Did they really think they could pull this B.S and not kill their career?

Reminds me of the nutjob that sent out Barack the Magic ------ CDs. I mean, how is it possible that they don't stop for a sec and say "You know, this might hurt my career in public service just a TINY bit".

274 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 6:06:58pm

Big into birther stuff and creationist stuff too, I'd wager. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

275 ihateronpaul  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 6:19:08pm

I think the reason republicans get REALLY ANGRY when you bring up the racist faction of their party is because they are ashamed of it but don't want to admit it.

/duhhh

276 KronoGhazi  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 6:50:30pm

Now is about the time some fuckwit chimes in with some defense or equivocation of OC Tea Party Fuckwit, invoking a 'Bush Chimp' reference.

277 ihateronpaul  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 6:58:22pm

meanwhile, over at hotair....

[Link: hotair.com...]

"Perhaps I could interpret the cartoon (sight unseen I admit) in a less “racial” tone. 1. There is a question as to Obama’s birth certificate and now it seems his parentage. 2. Obama is an uber-liberal and as such believes whole heartedly in darwin evolution. 3. When one’s parentage is in question, an evolutionist would go further down the genetic line, whereby we are all decendants (sp?) of the monkeys. Wasn’t there a huge trial back in the day on the monkey to man issue???. .

Because I believe in the charachter not color, I don’t see racism in every single litte thing. "

"So, it is racist to compare anyone to a monkey? I guess i do not get it. Where is that racist? "

"I do not understand why editorially portraying a public figure as a chimpanzee is assumed to be racist when used against a Black man, but not racist when used against a White man. That double standard in and of itself is racist."

278 celticdragon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 8:27:24pm

re: #57 wrenchwench

Thousands of conservatives will go to watch Atlas Shrugged this weekend, likely failing to realize that the movie endorses the same kind of strategy Beck has warned could lead to "death camps" over the past year.

Not to mention that her Objectivist philosophy is utterly inimical to Christianity and charity.

279 celticdragon  Sun, Apr 17, 2011 8:30:00pm

re: #63 talon_262

re: #47 Lidane

If what this twisted, racist fuck can be and is considered "ethical" by the current GOP, even if it's just a local office, then I don't want to be even remotely associated with the party any longer.

Fuck it, this (and a whole lot of other shit, such as the Birthers, Palin, Huckabee, Fischer, etc.) has almost completely turned me off of the GOP unless this shit gets shitcanned totally, which I don't see happening anytime soon.

It's nice to be a free agent sometimes...

The shit from the GOP has torn it with me for good. I am re-registering this week. Tuesday in fact. I left the party in everything but name around 2007, and I now I am scrubbing the registration as well. Fuck 'em. I will not be associated with this kind of vile lunacy.

280 samgak  Mon, Apr 18, 2011 3:05:17am

re: #278 celticdragon

Not to mention that her Objectivist philosophy is utterly inimical to Christianity and charity.

It's also inimical to animal rights, while we're on the subject:

The issues of gratuitous cruelty to animals and of vegetarianism are not fundamental philosophical issues. Nonetheless, Objectivist principles can be extended to provide a framework in which individuals can consider these issues themselves. Legally, since people have rights and animals don't, no form of force initiated against animals should be outlawed, even if it is gratuitously cruel or if it is used to produce food that is not necessary for a person's survival. Morally, however, gratuitous cruelty should be condemned because it reinforces the immoral habit of destroying others’ lives rather than promoting one's own life. Moreover, such cruelty can be the product only of gross irrationality, for it is natural for a person to empathize with another living being to the extent that the two resemble each other. While such cruelty is emotionally offensive to many people and rightly so, this is not grounds for government intervention because the sole purpose of the government is to protect rights, and animals don't have rights.


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