Yet Another Poll Shows the GOP is Lousy with Birthers

There’s something deeply wrong with the Republican Party
Wingnuts • Views: 22,616

This time it’s a CBS News/New York Times poll, confirming again that in 2011, the base of the Republican Party lives in Cloud Cuckoo Land: Poll Finds Few Favorites as G.O.P. Fight for President Gels.

Over all, it showed that Republicans who are considering making presidential bids will have to woo a party that largely identifies with the Tea Party movement — more than half of Republican voters said they considered themselves Tea Party supporters — and has questions about President Obama’s origin of birth.

A plurality of Republican voters, 47 percent, said they believed Mr. Obama, who was born in Hawaii, was born in another country; 22 percent said they did not know where he was born, and 32 percent said they believed he was born in the United States.

And the Republican candidates who are most preferred by the crazy base are the ones who’ve been constantly featured on Fox News, which shouldn’t surprise anyone.

If one Republican stands out in the Times/CBS News poll, it is Mike Huckabee, who has his own show on the Fox News Channel. Roughly a third of all voters view him favorably, as opposed to a quarter who view him unfavorably. And among Republican voters, more than half view him positively as opposed to 11 percent who have negative views.

Watching Huckabee on TV gives me a good idea of how he views things,” Floyd Petersen, a disabled contractor in Thompson Falls, Mont., said in a follow-up interview. “TV has made me know him better.”

Good grief.

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112 comments
1 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:33:54am

Fox is the media arm of the GOP in every possible way.

2 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:34:26am

Would be curious to see the average IQ. I’m sure it’s average to below average.

3 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:34:34am

re: #1 Obdicut

Fox is the media arm of the GOP in every possible way.

But of course. Just so long as you’re not officially running, you can get all the free air time you want as a “consultant.”

4 brennant  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:36:32am

Is there a poll out for independent/swing voters? I have a hard time thinking most independent voters are going to swing this hard to the right.

5 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:37:07am

It doesn’t even shock me anymore when I see these polls but man they are so dumb

6 Lidane  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:37:19am

re: #1 Obdicut

Fox is the media arm of the GOP in every possible way.

On that note:

Sean Hannity To Host Special Report On Media Bias For Fox News

Heh.

7 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:38:47am

re: #6 Lidane

On that note:

Sean Hannity To Host Special Report On Media Bias For Fox News

Heh.

Let me guess, it’ll go something like “It’s shocking how biased the media is…except for us, we’re totally ‘fair and honest.’”

8 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:41:11am

I got issues with Huckabee.

9 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:41:26am

Here’s the important piece of information. Only 33 percent of Republicans believe that Obama was born in the USA. 45 percent do not while 22 percent “do not know”. Frankly, saying you “don’t know” is not an answer in my book. That means that a whole 67 percent of Republicans have their head up their ass regarding Obama’s place of birth.

Again, only 33 percent of Republicans answered yes to the question, “Was President Obama Born in U.S.?”

10 MarkAM  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:41:59am

Something’s a little screwy with that poll, since it adds up to 101%. Nevertheless, it’s astounding that nearly 70% of Republicans doubt Obama’s citizenship; in this context saying “don’t know” is only slightly less nuts than being a full-on birther.

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:42:16am

re: #9 Gus 802

Here’s the important piece of information. Only 33 percent of Republicans believe that Obama was born in the USA. 45 percent do not while 22 percent “do not know”. Frankly, saying you “don’t know” is not an answer in my book. That means that a whole 67 percent of Republicans have their head up their ass regarding Obama’s place of birth.

Again, only 33 percent of Republicans answered yes to the question, “Was President Obama Born in U.S.?”

How many said, “He was not born in the US, he was born in Hawaii?”

(Which would indict the US school system directly.)

12 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:42:52am

re: #11 EmmmieG

How many said, “He was not born in the US, he was born in Hawaii?”

(Which would indict the US school system directly.)

No comment.

13 Flounder  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:44:40am

You could say that Pres. Obama was not born in the continental US, but the birthers would be only thinking about what breakfast has to do with anything.

14 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:44:58am

re: #6 Lidane

On that note:

Sean Hannity To Host Special Report On Media Bias For Fox News

Heh.

Because when you need someone to report on media bias, the first person you go to is Rush Limbaugh’s protege.

15 jaunte  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:47:52am

Bench strength!

When Republicans were asked whom they were most enthusiastic about, Mr. Huckabee was the second-most-mentioned candidate, after Mr. Romney. But the percentages were small: 8 percent named Mr. Huckabee, 9 percent named Mr. Romney and 57 percent could not name anyone.
16 Lidane  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:49:30am

Memo to the Birthers — YES, HE’S THE PRESIDENT. YES, HE’S BLACK. YES, HIS FATHER WAS FROM KENYA. GET OVER IT ALREADY, GODDAMN.

*ahem*

Seriously— I can’t believe that we’re still talking about Barack Obama’s citizenship after all these years. If the GOP seriously intends to run on this shit or keep pandering to it, they deserve to lose, and lose badly.

17 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:49:48am

re: #15 jaunte

Bench strength!

This is shaping up to be another “I don’t know who’s running, but I’m not voting for the guy in office” election.

18 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:51:14am

re: #16 Lidane

Memo to the Birthers — YES, HE’S THE PRESIDENT. YES, HE’S BLACK. YES, HIS FATHER WAS FROM KENYA. GET OVER IT ALREADY, GODDAMN.

*ahem*

Seriously— I can’t believe that we’re still talking about Barack Obama’s citizenship after all these years. If the GOP seriously intends to run on this shit or keep pandering to it, they deserve to lose, and lose badly.

But the GOP doesn’t pander to birthers!

//

19 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:52:11am

re: #18 Gus 802

But the GOP doesn’t pander to birthers!

//

Hey man, if there’s smoke, there’s probably a fire! How do you know for sure that he’s an American? Because that damned liberal media told you he was?!

//

20 Lidane  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:54:39am

OT, but James Wolcott over at Vanity Fair actually found a hilarious video from Pajamas Media TV about the Atlas Shrugged film:

[Link: www.vanityfair.com…]

It’s the second item on the list.

21 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:56:27am

re: #20 Lidane

OT, but James Wolcott over at Vanity Fair actually found a hilarious video from Pajamas Media TV about the Atlas Shrugged film:

[Link: www.vanityfair.com…]

It’s the second item on the list.

Cripes. Pajamas Media. What a joke.

22 MarkAM  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:57:44am

Huckabee scares me a bit… .he’s a nutcase but a stealthier one than some of the others. It’s still not clear whether he’ll run, but Ed Rollins suggests he’s likely to:

[Link: politicalwire.com…]

On the bright side, he’s not known for being much of a fundraiser, and he’d have some trouble with the corporate wing of the party.

23 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 9:58:56am

Huck’s got the “aw, shucks” appeal to some, but if you actually get him in front of a camera long enough for him to start laying down his personal views, you’ll quickly find the hairs on the back of your neck standing up in fright.

24 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:00:34am

re: #21 Gus 802

Cripes. Pajamas Media. What a joke.

Pajamas Media is now featuring an interview with Pamela Geller too.

When I was there, Pamela Geller was a complete persona non grata. Roger L. Simon told me many times that she was “crazy.”

Now they feature her.

25 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:02:35am

re: #24 Charles

Pajamas Media is now featuring an interview with Pamela Geller too.

When I was there, Pamela Geller was a complete persona non grata. Roger L. Simon told me many times that she was “crazy.”

Now they feature her.

Yep. I checked out Pajama Media at Archive.org a couple of months ago and saw that it had an eclectic mix. Right now it’s just another right wing blog which includes the denialists, theocons, pseudo-science, Islamaphobes, and corporate astroturfing.

26 Stanghazi  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:05:36am

Good tweet

DanaHoule Dana Houle RT @SimonMaloy:

Who would have guessed that the most influential force in the 2012 GOP primary would be Orly Taitz?

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:06:28am

re: #25 Gus 802

Yep. I checked out Pajama Media at Archive.org a couple of months ago and saw that it had an eclectic mix. Right now it’s just another right wing blog which includes the denialists, theocons, pseudo-science, Islamaphobes, and corporate astroturfing.

I saw this coming, and it’s a big reason why I decided to bail.

28 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:06:44am

re: #26 Stanley Sea

Good tweet

DanaHoule Dana Houle RT @SimonMaloy:

Who would have guessed that the most influential force in the 2012 GOP primary would be Orly Taitz?

They’re back on Jerome Corsi now. They got their marching orders from Drudge yesterday.

29 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:10:38am

re: #28 Gus 802

Corsi, the 9/11 truther who thinks that Bush wanted to create the North American Union.

30 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:11:01am

re: #21 Gus 802

Cripes. Pajamas Media. What a joke.

I just checked and our old pal Zombie is still shilling for the Tea Party over at PJM. Heh.

31 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:11:23am

A featured article on PJ Media is defending the guy who wrote this:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]

CAIR is an Islamic group that forwards the false belief that Islam is a “religion of peace” when it is simply a terroristic world-dominating political movement and not a religion at all.

32 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:14:26am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I just checked and our old pal Zombie is still shilling for the Tea Party over at PJM. Heh.

Is he still obsessed with Dr. Holdren?

33 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:14:42am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

I just checked and our old pal Zombie is still shilling for the Tea Party over at PJM. Heh.

Is zombie still posting gay pr0n disguised as “hard-hitting expose of teh eeville ghey”?

34 blueraven  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:14:54am

re: #15 jaunte

Bench strength!

Deep Derpitude!

35 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:15:07am

re: #32 Gus 802

Is he still obsessed with Dr. Holdren?

And gays. Man was he obsessed with gays.

36 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:15:54am

re: #33 Alouette

Is zombie still posting gay pr0n disguised as “hard-hitting expose of teh eeville ghey”?

That was all just a front to be able to go to Folsom Street and take raunchy pictures while pretending to be straight.

//

37 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:15:55am

re: #35 Gus 802

And gays. Man was he obsessed with gays.

They want to take away my right to redocorate!

38 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:16:52am

re: #1 Obdicut

Fox is the media arm of the GOP in every possible way.

Don’t really agree on this one. Rather, the GOP is now the political arm of FOX.

39 jhrhv  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:17:41am

I’m wondering if Obama is waiting until the GOP nominate a full on birther then after that person has spent a couple of months going birther crazy all over the MSM if he’ll show all the documents these crazies are crying about?

I think it would be a great move for him to come out late and say we have been going through a tough recovery, wars… and instead of helping the nation with these issues they / him / her has been concentrating for X number of years on crazy ass topics like NPR, my birth certificate, “soaking the rich”…

Seems to me like that he would totally discredit the opponent in a flash and take back a huge number of independents in one fell swoop.

40 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:18:10am

re: #28 Gus 802

Is there a due process to revoke a PhD? (Wishful thinking on Corsi)

41 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:18:54am

re: #39 jhrhv

I’m wondering if Obama is waiting until the GOP nominate a full on birther then after that person has spent a couple of months going birther crazy all over the MSM if he’ll show all the documents these crazies are crying about?

I think it would be a great move for him to come out late and say we have been going through a tough recovery, wars… and instead of helping the nation with these issues they / him / her has been concentrating for X number of years on crazy ass topics like NPR, my birth certificate, “soaking the rich”…

Seems to me like that he would totally discredit the opponent in a flash and take back a huge number of independents in one fell swoop.

Which would require him to find a means to violate Hawaii state law in a manner that wouldn’t immediately see his ass impeached.

42 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:19:33am

re: #39 jhrhv

I’m wondering if Obama is waiting until the GOP nominate a full on birther then after that person has spent a couple of months going birther crazy all over the MSM if he’ll show all the documents these crazies are crying about?

I think it would be a great move for him to come out late and say we have been going through a tough recovery, wars… and instead of helping the nation with these issues they / him / her has been concentrating for X number of years on crazy ass topics like NPR, my birth certificate, “soaking the rich”…

Seems to me like that he would totally discredit the opponent in a flash and take back a huge number of independents in one fell swoop.

He’s already shown the certified, verified copy of his official certificate of birth. There’s nothing else for him to show.

Even if there really was one of these mythical “long form certificates,” it wouldn’t matter one bit to the Birthers anyway.

43 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:19:34am

re: #27 Charles

Makes me pretty glad that I never did meet up at that original launch party and didn’t get more involved than I did in the venture.

A person’s reputation is only as good as the trust they engender online - and these folks at PJ have pretty much trashed any trust one could have had in the venture because they’ve veered completely off the rails.

Thanks for continuing to be a voice of reason.

44 nines09  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:19:50am

At this rate a wing nut family can indoctrinate home school a kid at home by just sitting him in front of Fox News 24/7. It’s all there. Truth. Justice. And the American Way.
/

45 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:20:24am

re: #43 lawhawk

Makes me pretty glad that I never did meet up at that original launch party and didn’t get more involved than I did in the venture.

A person’s reputation is only as good as the trust they engender online - and these folks at PJ have pretty much trashed any trust one could have had in the venture because they’ve veered completely off the rails.

Thanks for continuing to be a voice of reason.

Thank you for not going off the rails like so many others in the center right blogosphere.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:22:33am

re: #9 Gus 802

Here’s the important piece of information. Only 33 percent of Republicans believe that Obama was born in the USA. 45 percent do not while 22 percent “do not know”. Frankly, saying you “don’t know” is not an answer in my book. That means that a whole 67 percent of Republicans have their head up their ass regarding Obama’s place of birth.

Again, only 33 percent of Republicans answered yes to the question, “Was President Obama Born in U.S.?”

I’m going to give the 22 percent a break. They may not have been following the controversy carefully. They may not care.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:23:24am

re: #11 EmmmieG

How many said, “He was not born in the US, he was born in Hawaii?”

(Which would indict the US school system directly.)

A friend of mine was raised on Oahu. Her great-aunt used to call and tell her to run get her grandma and tell her that Aunt Soandso is calling ‘from the States’.

48 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:23:46am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

I’m going to give the 22 percent a break. They may not have been following the controversy carefully. They may not care.

Yeah. Or as we sometimes joke around, “the other 22 percent are drunk”.

//

49 eastsider  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:24:00am
A plurality of Republican voters, 47 percent, said they believed Mr. Obama, who was born in Hawaii, was born in another country

This is why I love the NYT. A five word appositive phrase, when correctly deployed, carries all the weight and subtext of an aircraft carrier.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:24:58am

re: #29 Obdicut

Corsi, the 9/11 truther who thinks that Bush wanted to create the North American Union.

Bush was supposed to declare the NAU, put us on the amero, and become dictator for life.

He forgot.

///

51 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:25:44am

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

Bush was supposed to declare the NAU, put us on the amero, and become dictator for life.

He forgot.

///

Being an evil overlord is way too much work.

52 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:25:48am

re: #1 Obdicut

Fox is the media arm of the GOP in every possible way.

I still think it’s the other way around and the GOP is the political arm of FOX and the rest of Murdoch’s empire.

53 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:26:26am

re: #50 SanFranciscoZionist

Bush was supposed to declare the NAU, put us on the amero, and become dictator for life.

He forgot.

///

Don’t forget the NAFTA highway paranoia and the “Mexican trucks” bologna. Which reminds me of when Fox News was peddling that BMW (Big Mexican Women) stupidity last year. Remember that?

54 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:26:46am

re: #51 Varek Raith

Being an evil overlord is way too much work.

That’s why you train an apprentice, then have him do all the heavy lifting.

/

55 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:26:58am

re: #52 oaktree

It’s six of one, half a dozen of another. They aren’t a political party anymore. They are a strange new entity, kind of similar to what Berluscioni has going on in Italy, where massive propagandandistic media meets highly unscrupulous governance.

56 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:27:50am

And the terrorist anchor babies. And the Farsi tattooed Iranians in Mexico coming over to the USA to kill our women and children! All peddled by Fox News.

57 jhrhv  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:27:51am

re: #42 Charles

I mean do it in a way that there can’t really be these people who say why didn’t he show it? I know we’ve all seen it here not that I needed to. But there has to be some way like in a debate for the POTUS to just pull it out of his pocket and say here it is and if you want my college transcripts fine as well. A real in your face there can no longer be a question of this nonsense way of putting out there.

I know you’re right and no matter what he does there will always be those people who won’t believe it no matter what he or anyone else does. Someone I putting down on a blog who is one of those “I don’t know sorts” started with the “even if I see it I won’t believe it’s not a forgery” rants.

As is often pointed out far too many GOP supporters have gone full ass monkey.

58 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:28:00am

re: #51 Varek Raith

Being an evil overlord is way too much work.

Several of my students that last year of the Bush administration were openly contemptuous that I actually thought Bush would leave office peacefully and on schedule.

Too much YouTube.

59 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:28:28am

re: #53 Gus 802

Don’t forget the NAFTA highway paranoia and the “Mexican trucks” bologna. Which reminds me of when Fox News was peddling that BMW (Big Mexican Women) stupidity last year. Remember that?

I remember the Big Mexican Women. How could I forget?

And the night Los Zetas took Laredo.

60 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:29:02am

re: #54 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That’s why you train an apprentice, then have him do all the heavy lifting.

/

I think that was Cheney’s plan, but then Bush spaced, and just vacated the White House without even using his sharks with laser beams.

//

61 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:29:02am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

I remember the Big Mexican Women. How could I forget?

And the night Los Zetas took Laredo.

Classic! That should go down in history in the wingnut hall of fame.

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:29:42am

re: #56 Gus 802

And the terrorist anchor babies. And the Farsi tattooed Iranians in Mexico coming over to the USA to kill our women and children! All peddled by Fox News.

All I want is to see one actual soi-disant Mexican with a Farsi tattoo. Can they get me a picture? I would take this more seriously if they had a picture.

63 blueraven  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:30:04am

Seems there is really a deep divide within the GOP and the crazies are winning the day. People like Karl Rove are trying hard to get the party to focus on the issues, instead of trying to demonize the president, without a lot of success so far.

They somehow think this birther issue is a winner, and people who were not on board before now seem to be pandering to this crowd. Witness the increased focus on fox news. Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin used to kind of avoid this issue but now seem more comfortable with it. Then of course your have Fox & Friends “Monday with Trump” segment. Maybe its a distraction tactic to take away from the very unpopular Ryan plan.

Looks like a stupid strategy, but there ya go.

64 zora  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:30:14am

re: #9 Gus 802

maybe they don’t know if hawaii is part of the u.s.

65 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:30:25am

re: #57 jhrhv

Why would him pulling out his birth certificate in a debate solve anything?

It’s the same birth certificate that’s available for anyone to look at online, whenever they want.

The one that birthers claim is a fraud.

66 Mattand  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:30:26am

re: #41 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Which would require him to find a means to violate Hawaii state law in a manner that wouldn’t immediately see his ass impeached.

That’s something I’ve noticed for a while. It’s probably a fair assumption to say the majority of birthers are also states’ rights fanatics. They want the most impotent federal government possible, except in this case; then they’ll all for the POTUS violating HI law to satisfy their racism-fueled paranoia.

67 makeitstop  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:30:57am

re: #10 MarkAM

Something’s a little screwy with that poll, since it adds up to 101%.

Math is hard! /

68 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:31:08am

re: #64 zora

maybe they don’t know if hawaii is part of the u.s.

Not even after watching Hawaii 5-0 and Magnum PI?

//

69 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:32:35am

re: #57 jhrhv

I mean do it in a way that there can’t really be these people who say why didn’t he show it? I know we’ve all seen it here not that I needed to. But there has to be some way like in a debate for the POTUS to just pull it out of his pocket and say here it is and if you want my college transcripts fine as well. A real in your face there can no longer be a question of this nonsense way of putting out there.

SNIP
.

This contraversy is not worthy of Obama reacting to it in such a way.

And such a stunt would be almost juvenile to pull at something that should be treated seriously like a debate. Not to mention derailing something that should be about policy and regressing it to something about qualifications (and to do so after Obama had served most of a term as POTUS.)

70 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:33:13am

re: #52 oaktree

I still think it’s the other way around and the GOP is the political arm of FOX and the rest of Murdoch’s empire.

See The Conquest of Cool by Thomas M. Frank.
This damning indictment of manufactured media culture focuses mainly on the 60s counter-culture, but its principles are applicable to any media-based political sub-culture. In some respects, the far right has become a kind of counter-culture, a contrarian movement that portrays itself as opposing the status quo but that actually serves the vested financial and political interest of its creators.

71 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:33:45am

I would have retitled this as: Yet another poll confirms the suspicion that the GOP base is full of easily duped morons who are more than a little racist.

72 Mattand  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:33:51am

re: #63 blueraven

Seems there is really a deep divide within the GOP and the crazies are winning the day. People like Karl Rove are trying hard to get the party to focus on the issues, instead of trying to demonize the president, without a lot of success so far.

Heh. Karl Rove is the voice of reason these days. And correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s not exactly clean in the whole “demonizing the opponent” department?

73 eastsider  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:33:53am

re: #57 jhrhv

A real in your face there can no longer be a question of this nonsense way of putting out there.

If Doc Brown showed up with a delorean and physically brought these people to the hospital in Hawaii when Obama was born, they would still not believe it.

There is literally no piece of evidence out there, no methodology to deploy logic, that would change their minds.

And, even in a world where Obama was able to pull out a magical piece of evidence that did convince 100% of birthers he was born here, they still wouldn’t vote for him. Better off trying to convince others he has good policy.

The whole thing is 1) impossible, and, even if it was possible, 2) bad politics.

74 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:35:42am

Dear America,

Hawaii is a state (since 1959). Nova Scotia is a Canadian province. Alaska is also a state and it is not an island. Africa is a continent and not a country. Japan and China are two different nations and cultures. Moscow is in Europe and they speak Portuguese in Brazil, not Spanish. Mexicans speak Spanish not Mexican.

Sincerely,

Gus

75 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:36:36am

re: #66 mattand

That’s something I’ve noticed for a while. It’s probably a fair assumption to say the majority of birthers are also states’ rights fanatics. They want the most impotent federal government possible, except in this case; then they’ll all for the POTUS violating HI law to satisfy their racism-fueled paranoia.

They’re not really for it, they know he can’t do it without putting his own office in jeopardy. It’s an impossible task, one that they’re gleefully exploiting to stoke their own insanity. Even if he found a means to lawfully produce his “long form” for public scrutiny, these nutbars would still declare it a “fake” and demand the see the “real one.”

76 blueraven  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:37:00am

re: #72 mattand

Heh. Karl Rove is the voice of reason these days. And correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s not exactly clean in the whole “demonizing the opponent” department?

This is true. According to Rove, Obama is still a far left socialist. Its all relative.

77 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:37:20am

re: #63 blueraven

Seems there is really a deep divide within the GOP and the crazies are winning the day. People like Karl Rove are trying hard to get the party to focus on the issues, instead of trying to demonize the president, without a lot of success so far.

They somehow think this birther issue is a winner, and people who were not on board before now seem to be pandering to this crowd. Witness the increased focus on fox news. Sean Hannity, Sarah Palin used to kind of avoid this issue but now seem more comfortable with it. Then of course your have Fox & Friends “Monday with Trump” segment. Maybe its a distraction tactic to take away from the very unpopular Ryan plan.

Looks like a stupid strategy, but there ya go.

The divide is between the professional political wing of the leadership, whose outlook is typified by Karl Rove; and the media leadership, represented by Limbaugh, Hannity, WND, and others.

78 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:38:47am

re: #74 Gus 802

Dear America,

Hawaii is a state (since 1959). Nova Scotia is a Canadian province. Alaska is also a state and it is not an island. Africa is a continent and not a country. Japan and China are two different nations and cultures. Moscow is in Europe and they speak Portuguese in Brazil, not Spanish. Mexicans speak Spanish not Mexican.

Sincerely,

Gus

Part of American Exceptionalism is that being ignorant of other cultures, languages, and locations and names of countries is part of being a Real American. And if we’re not accurate in our tirades about these places it’s not important since the context is clear that these places are unworthy of our attention, are enemies to be annihilated, or are allies who are not submissive enough to our obvious moral and cultural superiority.
//

79 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:39:15am

re: #77 Shiplord Kirel

The divide is between the professional political wing of the leadership, whose outlook is typified by Karl Rove; and the media leadership, represented by Limbaugh, Hannity, WND, and others.

I think of it as the divide between the adults and the children.

80 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:39:50am

re: #77 Shiplord Kirel

The divide is between the professional political wing of the leadership, whose outlook is typified by Karl Rove; and the media leadership, represented by Limbaugh, Hannity, WND, and others.

There are so many lines of division in the GOP, it’s hard to say where any one wing of the part stands at any time. Even the Tea Partiers are not a single unified movement, but rather a collection of various loons, banded together under the same flag due to their hatred of Obama.

81 jhrhv  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:40:28am

re: #65 Obdicut

I keeping seeing and hearing them saying I haven’t seen it. Why doesn’t he just produce it already then this will go away.

I don’t know how else he could best produce the documents in a way that might satisfy the wingnuts. So I’m thinking if they take the time to watch a debate or two which might even be on Fox then he could pull it there.

I can’t say I know the answer because it really makes no sense that this is still a question and that GOP potentials are scoring points with the base and beyond with this topic. Generally I’m thinking there has to be someway to publicly shame these people with the evidence. Again IMO if played correctly by a strategist there would have to be someway to make a Palin, Trump, Huckabee look complete fools. Okay not so tough with Palin even without this issue.

82 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:40:58am

re: #74 Gus 802

Dear America,

Hawaii is a state (since 1959). Nova Scotia is a Canadian province. Alaska is also a state and it is not an island. Africa is a continent and not a country. Japan and China are two different nations and cultures. Moscow is in Europe and they speak Portuguese in Brazil, not Spanish. Mexicans speak Spanish not Mexican.

Sincerely,

Gus

Also, there is no such place as “Old Mexico,” most Iranians are not Arabs, and Sikhs are not Muslims.

83 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:41:06am

re: #78 oaktree

Part of American Exceptionalism is that being ignorant of other cultures, languages, and locations and names of countries is part of being a Real American. And if we’re not accurate in our tirades about these places it’s not important since the context is clear that these places are unworthy of our attention, are enemies to be annihilated, or are allies who are not submissive enough to our obvious moral and cultural superiority.
//

That’s the beauty of being American! We really don’t need to know these things! We’re a self sustaining republic and providence superior to all around the world. Even at our most ignorant levels we exceed in our USAExceptionalism™ around the globe!

//

84 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:41:56am

re: #81 jhrhv

I keeping seeing and hearing them saying I haven’t seen it. Why doesn’t he just produce it already then this will go away.

But he has produced it. So, given that he’s produced it, why would producing it again satisfy these people?

85 Gus  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:41:59am

re: #82 Shiplord Kirel

Also, there is no such place as “Old Mexico,” most Iranians are not Arabs, and Sikhs are not Muslims.

But I thought Persian was just a style of rug.

//

86 garhighway  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:42:24am

I would like to see someone goad a Hawaii-based Republican into going to the Health Department there and demanding their long-form birth certificate, and to do so on camera. Then we could all watch as the clerk gives them the same thing BHO got, and explain how this is all you get.

It would be a useful exercise. But it would have to be a Republican or it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

87 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:42:45am

re: #85 Gus 802

But I thought Persian was just a style of rug.

//

Or cat???

88 Mattand  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:43:28am

re: #73 eastsider

There is literally no piece of evidence out there, no methodology to deploy logic, that would change their minds.

Over at Crooks and Liars, last week someone posted that birtherism gives conspiracy theories a bad name (I shit you not), because birthers are about racism whereas the other ones are about “truth”.

As you can imagine, pointing out the similarities between the birthers and 9/11 truthers didn’t go over well.

Paranoid poster is paranoid, as they say.

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:45:11am

re: #82 Shiplord Kirel

Also, there is no such place as “Old Mexico,” most Iranians are not Arabs, and Sikhs are not Muslims.

The central message of Buddhism is not ‘every man for himself’.

90 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:45:34am

re: #80 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

There are so many lines of division in the GOP, it’s hard to say where any one wing of the part stands at any time. Even the Tea Partiers are not a single unified movement, but rather a collection of various loons, banded together under the same flag due to their hatred of Obama.

These wings are not defined by their positions on specific issues, but by whom they see as setting the agenda. To Rove and other old-line Nixonian operatives, the media are a tool that can serve the party. To the right-wing media, the party is a tool that advances an agenda set by the media.

91 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:45:57am

re: #88 mattand

Over at Crooks and Liars, last week someone posted that birtherism gives conspiracy theories a bad name (I shit you not), because birthers are about racism whereas the other ones are about “truth”.

As you can imagine, pointing out the similarities between the birthers and 9/11 truthers didn’t go over well.

Paranoid poster is paranoid, as they say.

Oswald on the Moon soundstage in WTC 7 in the Bermuda Triangle with an alien and a grassy knoll.

92 Lidane  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:46:41am

re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist

And the night Los Zetas took Laredo.

Eh? I missed that one. My relatives in Laredo will be amused to find out that Los Zetas are running the joint.

93 jhrhv  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:46:47am

I don’t know there is any satisfying them. You could all be right. There might be no winning on this for Obama. I would just like to see some justice for all this crazy talk. There should be some way to turn this stupid on them. There has to be some way to make some percentage of the doubters out there feel stupid for being behind this for so long.

94 Mattand  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:47:21am

re: #91 Varek Raith

Oswald on the Moon soundstage in WTC 7 in the Bermuda Triangle with an alien and a grassy knoll.

You forgot Nessie. And I’ll add the Jersey Devil, because he’s my state’s own home grown cryptid.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:49:25am

re: #92 Lidane

Eh? I missed that one. My relatives in Laredo will be amused to find out that Los Zetas are running the joint.

I’ve never known how to search the comment archives, so maybe someone else can find this for you. There was a night some months ago when we became aware that various wingnut news organs were starting to spread the word that Laredo had been overrun by Los Zetas, that it was an act of war, and well, general nutbaggery.

One commenter on one of these news organs informed everyone who doubted that his sister lived in Laredo, and she was now barricaded inside her house, fearing for her life.

Several people said they’d contacted the Laredo PD, where they’d been told nothing was going on, but they were clearly lying to keep the public from panicking.

It was great. An awesome thread.

96 Lidane  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:49:32am

re: #73 eastsider

If Doc Brown showed up with a delorean and physically brought these people to the hospital in Hawaii when Obama was born, they would still not believe it.

There is literally no piece of evidence out there, no methodology to deploy logic, that would change their minds.

Seriously. God could appear on the White House lawn, wave his hand and immediately show the world the exact moment that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and it wouldn’t mean shit. Birthers are immune to logic and reason.

97 deadletterboy  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:49:32am

re: #6 Lidane

Dammit, I’m just going to stop buying new irony meters. I break like one a day.

98 blueraven  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:50:15am

re: #81 jhrhv

I keeping seeing and hearing them saying I haven’t seen it. Why doesn’t he just produce it already then this will go away.

I don’t know how else he could best produce the documents in a way that might satisfy the wingnuts. So I’m thinking if they take the time to watch a debate or two which might even be on Fox then he could pull it there.

I can’t say I know the answer because it really makes no sense that this is still a question and that GOP potentials are scoring points with the base and beyond with this topic. Generally I’m thinking there has to be someway to publicly shame these people with the evidence. Again IMO if played correctly by a strategist there would have to be someway to make a Palin, Trump, Huckabee look complete fools. Okay not so tough with Palin even without this issue.

He will never satisfy the birthers. If he pulled out a long form, they would claim it was a fake. Then what? He could hire an expert to testify that it was the real deal, but they would claim the expert is a fraud. It would be never ending.
Why would he engage them? Best to let these idiots blather on.

99 Mattand  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:50:56am

re: #93 jhrhv

I agree with you, but it’s wishful thinking. Many of these people are still angry there’s a black guy with a Muslim name running the country. They will grasp at anything to help them make sense of the world, regardless of how non-sensical.

I honestly never thought I’d see an African-American elected President in my lifetime. Given the the backlash I’ve witnessed amongst the people I know, it’s way premature to toe tag America’s racism issues.

100 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:52:27am

re: #81 jhrhv

It seems like you’re not understanding the issue. The issue is not his birth certificate. Wingnut cultists are not actually questioning whether he has one or whether he is a citizen. They are simply finding ways to express their emotions. The words and concepts they use are not relevant - it’s about expressing the emotion of hating Obama. Words like ‘socialist’, ‘Kenyan anti-colonialism’, ‘birth certificate’, ‘Bill Ayers’, ‘community organiser’ and ‘Muslim’ do not have the same meaning that normal people consider them to have. All of these words have no actual connection with the President. However, they are words that the cult has chosen to express their emotion. And normal people can become confused by trying to understand the words, rather than understanding that they’re simply noises used to communicate an emotion.

I get that you want to see the bad guys punked - that’s the impression I get from your posts. That’s fine, but it’s tribal; it’s a similar us vs them sort of attitude, wanting to see them publicly humiliated, wanting to see their team lose. This is fine in sports, but politics is too serious to fall into this simplistic way of thinking. Still, it is important that normal people realise that being a crazy conspiracy theorist with a worldview based on hate is in fact something to be ashamed of. Turning a blind eye to it would seem to be a more mature way of handling it, but all it does is allow this sort of stupidity to spread.

101 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:52:36am

re: #98 blueraven

He will never satisfy the birthers. If he pulled out a long form, they would claim it was a fake. Then what? He could hire an expert to testify that it was the real deal, but they would claim the expert is a fraud. It would be never ending.
Why would he engage them? Best to let these idiots blather on.

Hell, better idea is just to exploit them, use them as an example to other voters. “Here we are, our country in an economic crisis, worried that we might not be able to make good on our loans, and yet a stunning majority of Republicans are more worried that I might not be an American!”

102 Lidane  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:52:56am

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

I’ve never known how to search the comment archives, so maybe someone else can find this for you. There was a night some months ago when we became aware that various wingnut news organs were starting to spread the word that Laredo had been overrun by Los Zetas, that it was an act of war, and well, general nutbaggery.

One commenter on one of these news organs informed everyone who doubted that his sister lived in Laredo, and she was now barricaded inside her house, fearing for her life.

Several people said they’d contacted the Laredo PD, where they’d been told nothing was going on, but they were clearly lying to keep the public from panicking.

It was great. An awesome thread.

LMAO! I have two cousins in the Laredo PD. If Los Zetas were actually in control, they’d have mentioned it by now.

The one thing I will say about the border is that it’s a bad idea to talk about the cartels openly because you never know who’s near you listening, but that’s just common sense. It’s not because Los Zetas are running Laredo.

103 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:54:34am

I still think the hilarious conspiracy was Geller when she claimed that Obama’s real father was Malcolm X. Charles as I recall called her on it and then she denied it. The Birthers say they’re not bigots but they’ve given me nothing to suggest otherwise. Honestly, I see no reason why Obama shouldn’t get the same benefit of the doubt that candidates born in the continental US get. The rash of birtherism in the GOP is crazyness at its worst.

104 Tigger2005  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:55:33am

Someone recently posted a link to another article (not Frum’s) where the author claimed that Trump represents the “high water” mark of Birtherism and that, paradoxically, he is going to be the one who kills it. More wishful thinking.

105 AntonSirius  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:56:32am

re: #86 garhighway

I would like to see someone goad a Hawaii-based Republican into going to the Health Department there and demanding their long-form birth certificate, and to do so on camera. Then we could all watch as the clerk gives them the same thing BHO got, and explain how this is all you get.

It would be a useful exercise. But it would have to be a Republican or it wouldn’t be worth the effort.

Where have you gone, Pimp Daddy O’Keefe? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

106 BongCrodny  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:57:59am

re: #72 mattand

Heh. Karl Rove is the voice of reason these days. And correct me if I’m wrong, but he’s not exactly clean in the whole “demonizing the opponent” department?


Once you’ve dug yourself a big fucking hole in the ground, it’s easier to keep digging than it is to climb out.

107 AntonSirius  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:58:01am

re: #93 jhrhv

I don’t know there is any satisfying them. You could all be right. There might be no winning on this for Obama. I would just like to see some justice for all this crazy talk. There should be some way to turn this stupid on them. There has to be some way to make some percentage of the doubters out there feel stupid for being behind this for so long.

Justice will come in the form of electoral college votes and House seats in 2012.

108 jhrhv  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:59:30am

re: #100 Renaissance_Man

I get that for a lot of birthers this is a race thing and hating Obama is a racial thing for many. I also get that it’s a childish issue for the arena.

There is a part of me that says if the Donald etc keep brining it up will they leave it behind when they get there in his face? I don’t know. You’re probably right I hope you are.

Anyway I”ll leave it at that. Going to go watch Tron the Original Classic just came in the mail. Going to enjoy the rest of my day off and not think more about wingnuts for today.

Have a great day all.

109 Four More Tears  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 10:59:44am

re: #1 Obdicut

Fox The GOP is the media political arm of the GOP Fox in every possible way.

110 jhrhv  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 11:00:40am

PS thanks for the responses I’ve learned something this afternoon.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 11:01:54am

For some reason, both of these notes made me laugh. A lot.

I did once read an account by a woman who managed to shame a burglar into leaving her home by invoking the memory of Dr. King.

112 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 21, 2011 11:06:49am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

For some reason, both of these notes made me laugh. A lot.

I did once read an account by a woman who managed to shame a burglar into leaving her home by invoking the memory of Dr. King.

Or whacked with a mace…
;)


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