Christopher Hitchens: Now What About Pakistan?

‘It’s the sheer blatancy of it that catches the breath’
Opinion • Views: 37,585

Christopher Hitchens writes today that the killing of Osama bin Laden won’t mean very much if the United States continues doing business as usual with Pakistan: Osama Bin Laden’s legacy: It will depend in part on what Obama does next.

There are several pleasant little towns like Abbottabad in Pakistan, strung out along the roads that lead toward the mountains from Rawalpindi (the garrison town of Pakistani’s military brass and, until 2003, a safe-house for Khalid Sheik Muhammed). Muzaffarabad, Abbottabad … cool in summer and winter, with majestic views and discreet amenities. The colonial British—like Maj. James Abbott, who gave his name to this one—called them “hill stations,” designed for the rest and recreation of commissioned officers. The charming idea, like the location itself, survives among the Pakistani officer corps. If you tell me that you are staying in a rather nice walled compound in Abbottabad, I can tell you in return that you are the honored guest of a military establishment that annually consumes several billion dollars of American aid. It’s the sheer blatancy of it that catches the breath.

There’s perhaps some slight satisfaction to be gained from this smoking-gun proof of official Pakistani complicity with al-Qaida, but in general it only underlines the sense of anticlimax. After all, who did not know that the United States was lavishly feeding the same hands that fed Bin Laden? There’s some minor triumph, also, in the confirmation that our old enemy was not a heroic guerrilla fighter but the pampered client of a corrupt and vicious oligarchy that runs a failed and rogue state.

But, again, we were aware of all this already. At least we won’t have to put up with a smirking video when the 10th anniversary of his best-known atrocity comes around. Come to think of it, though, he hadn’t issued any major communiqués on any subject lately (making me wonder, some time ago, if he hadn’t actually died or been accidentally killed already), and the really hateful work of his group and his ideology was being carried out by a successor generation like his incomparably more ruthless clone in Iraq, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. I find myself hoping that, like Zarqawi, Bin Laden had a few moments at the end to realize who it was who had found him and to wonder who the traitor had been. That would be something. Not much, but something.

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61 comments
1 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:52:42pm

Working normally with Pakistan might be off the table anyways, the people there are gonna be pisst over this whole unilateral action thing.

2 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:53:12pm

when osama is found to be a few hundred meters from the Pakistani version of West Point, it is a certainty that he had friends in high places in the military or ISI.

3 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:53:57pm

Wonder who they’re hiding up in Costelloabad…

4 Varek Raith  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:54:36pm

re: #1 windsagio

Working normally with Pakistan might be off the table anyways, the people there are gonna be pisst over this whole unilateral action thing.

Too fucking bad.

5 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:55:13pm

re: #4 Varek Raith

Too fucking bad.

It might well be, at that >>

6 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:55:34pm

re: #3 ralphieboy

Wonder who they’re hiding up in Costelloabad…

A mummy-terrorist, no doubt. Maybe even a wolf-man-terrorist.

7 lawhawk  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:56:18pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

A mummy-terrorist, no doubt. Maybe even a wolf-man-terrorist.

We already got KSM /

8 albusteve  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:56:25pm

re: #1 windsagio

Working normally with Pakistan might be off the table anyways, the people there are gonna be pisst over this whole unilateral action thing.

except it wasn’t according to a link on the past thread….Pakistan gave the okay….why wouldn’t they? they had to

9 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:56:30pm

re: #1 windsagio

Working normally with Pakistan might be off the table anyways, the people there are gonna be pisst over this whole unilateral action thing.

If working normally with them involves them hiding Usama Bin Laden near a military school, then I think we need a different normal.

10 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:56:32pm

re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth

Scooby Doo terrorist.

11 Summer Seale  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:57:28pm

Good old Hitch. I thought of him this morning when I heard the news. I am glad he outlived Bin Laden. That warmed my heart even more. =)

12 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:57:47pm

re: #8 albusteve

except it wasn’t according to a link on the past thread…Pakistan gave the okay…why wouldn’t they? they had to

Damn, I didn’t see that link, as of last night they were saying that the Pakistani gov’t wasn’t told until after the fact.

Last thread you say?

13 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:58:02pm

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

when osama is found to be a few hundred meters from the Pakistani version of West Point, it is a certainty that he had friends in high places in the military or ISI.

The only way it could be worse for the Pakistani military is if the SEALs had caught OBL living in the basement of Gillani’s palace. The compound was built in 2005, it was 8 times the usual size, it had no phone or net connections, and they burned their garbage rather than having it picked up. It is impossible that the nearby horde of Pakistani officers and would-be officers didn’t notice something odd going on right under their noses.

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:58:09pm

re: #1 windsagio

Working normally with Pakistan might be off the table anyways, the people there are gonna be pisst over this whole unilateral action thing.

Like I care about that. The US needs to be able to tell our haters that we are not going to let them hide those who murder our people. Let them choke on their powerlessness to stop us.

15 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:59:11pm

re: #2 _RememberTonyC

when osama is found to be a few hundred meters from the Pakistani version of West Point, it is a certainty that he had friends in high places in the military or ISI.

The Mubai attacks seem to back that view up.

16 reine.de.tout  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:59:18pm
17 blueraven  Mon, May 2, 2011 12:59:26pm

This is one reason I am glad President Obama is CIC. He always said he would go into Pakistan to hunt down OBL or top Al Queda, with or without their assistance.

18 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:06pm

re: #13 Shiplord Kirel

The only way it could be worse for the Pakistani military is if the SEALs had caught OBL living in the basement of Gillani’s palace. The compound was built in 2005, it was 8 times the usual size, it had no phone or net connections, and they burned their garbage rather than having it picked up. It is impossible that the nearby horde of Pakistani officers and would-be officers didn’t notice something odd going on right under their noses.

Had Obama been holed up in a cave in the mountains or in some shepherder’s hut, then the Pakistanis could have credibly denied any knowledge of his whereabouts.

19 albusteve  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:14pm

re: #12 windsagio

Damn, I didn’t see that link, as of last night they were saying that the Pakistani gov’t wasn’t told until after the fact.

Last thread you say?

I think so…maybe back further…the point is, the Pakistanians don’t count

20 jaunte  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:16pm
…a military establishment that annually consumes several billion dollars of American aid…


That might be a bit better savings than Cowboy Poetry.

21 latitude51  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:18pm

re: #3 ralphieboy

Wonder who they’re hiding up in Costelloabad…

That’s second base, right?

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:23pm

Mumbai attacks.

It is incredibly foolish to consider Pakistan a friend. They are at best a semi belligerent with multiple factions we can hope to exploit.

23 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:25pm

re: #14 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s… really dumb.

It’s like you didn’t live through 2001-2008 >>

24 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:00:40pm

I think the expectations of Pakistan are set pretty low. They don’t even have control over their own territory. The have limited control over their intelligence agencies and military. It’s spooky to think they have nuclear weapons because they are damn close to a failed state. I would prefer that we never did business with them at all. I would have preferred aligning with India and treating Pakistan and Afghanistan as a single entity but I suppose that wasn’t very practical.

25 _RememberTonyC  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:01:13pm

re: #13 Shiplord Kirel

The only way it could be worse for the Pakistani military is if the SEALs had caught OBL living in the basement of Gillani’s palace. The compound was built in 2005, it was 8 times the usual size, it had no phone or net connections, and they burned their garbage rather than having it picked up. It is impossible that the nearby horde of Pakistani officers and would-be officers didn’t notice something odd going on right under their noses.

absolutely right. pakistan is a hell hole. bu the real problem is that they are scumbags with nukes.

26 recusancy  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:01:20pm

re: #17 blueraven

This is one reason I am glad President Obama is CIC. He always said he would go into Pakistan to hunt down OBL or top Al Queda, with or without their assistance.

Yup. It was a topic of difference during the debates with McCain

27 blueraven  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:01:34pm

re: #8 albusteve

except it wasn’t according to a link on the past thread…Pakistan gave the okay…why wouldn’t they? they had to

What link? From everything said by the President and at the press conference, they knew nothing about it.

28 justaminute  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:01:39pm

Of course they knew. It is not unusual for homes in that area to be walled off. Many homes in the ME are walled off but the walls were unusually high with razor wire. No telephones or internet in a home that was more opulent than others in the neighborhood. They burned their own trash. Close to a military installation. What I know of Iran and the surrounding areas, everybody knows their neighbors and the ones to stay away from. Gossip is always rife, not much entertainment you know.

29 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:02:19pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

The nuclear weapons are part of it. We were working on a plan forever to ‘help pakistan secure their nuclear weapons’, but they don’t trust us any more than we trust them.

There’s a lot more going on here than the whole war on terror thing.

30 Bert's House of Beef and Obdicuts  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:02:34pm

re: #23 windsagio

There was nothing particularly stupid there.

If Pakistan is already at the level of disorder and corruption where Usama Bin Laden can hide in plain site in a big, fortified compound near the top military school, then their usefulness as allies is rather moot.

31 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:03:27pm

re: #27 blueraven

Link

32 albusteve  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:03:44pm

re: #27 blueraven

What link? From everything said by the President and at the press conference, they knew nothing about it.

don’t know

33 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:04:48pm

re: #1 windsagio

Working normally with Pakistan might be off the table anyways, the people there are gonna be pisst over this whole unilateral action thing.

via Drudge:

Pakistanis rally to pay homage to bin Laden…
Musharraf: Mission violated sovereignty…

34 albusteve  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:04:51pm

re: #29 windsagio

The nuclear weapons are part of it. We were working on a plan forever to ‘help pakistan secure their nuclear weapons’, but they don’t trust us any more than we trust them.

There’s a lot more going on here than the whole war on terror thing.

what’s going on?

35 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:04:55pm

re: #30 Obdicut

I’m not saying it wasn’t justified, or that we didn’t have to do it, but rather that saying ‘let other nations choke on their powerlessness’ is a great way to learn how much we actually depend on them.

Especially when there’s other stuff going on that we have t oworry about.

36 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:05:28pm

re: #23 windsagio

That’s… really dumb.

It’s like you didn’t live through 2001-2008 >>

NO I did. I am not saying that the belligerent portions of Pakistan won’t be pissed. I am saying that I don’t care if they are pissed and that with angry dogs, you sometimes need to smack their noses and remind them who is the alpha.

I really don’t care that their feelings are hurt because we killed an enemy of America that they were shielding. In fact I want them frightened that payback might come to them so they behave.

My feelings are hurt that they were shielding him. It is really obvious that he was protected by elements of the Pakistani power structure since he was living in a major compound right near a military academy. He wasn’t in some secret cave sleeping on a cot.

37 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:06:00pm

re: #34 albusteve

We want to be able to assure that their nuclear weapons are secure from extrmeists. Also we want effective negotiating power in their conflict with India… which could be a serious problem.

38 lawhawk  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:06:10pm

Pakistan is worse than a rotten Denmark. You’ve got parts of the government there actively operating against the others - the ISI and military, and the Islamists are busy expanding their influence.

It wouldn’t surprise me that one faction was protecting OBL from the others.

It wouldn’t surprise me that the Pakistani government learned of the raid until after it happened (or that key figures in the Pakistani ISI or Army) didn’t learn of the raid until after the fact. Operational security was key to success on the raid.

We might find out that Obama called Zardari minutes before the raid went off - to avoid anyone else getting wind of the mission. That would satisfy the knowledge/consent aspect (pretty much along the lines of - we’re doing this, and it’d be nice if you agree that we’re doing it).

39 Buck  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:06:18pm

Wow, those high walls with barbed wire sure didn’t seem to stop HELICOPTERS…. heh.


“No one can get past our walls sir. They are 18 ft tall, and go down 9 feet to stop tunnels. Yep, these walls are around the compound so you feel safe in this area which is flat and huge…. I mean you could land two or three helicopters in the front yard….”

40 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:07:19pm

re: #37 windsagio

We want to be able to assure that their nuclear weapons are secure from extrmeists. Also we want effective negotiating power in their conflict with India… which could be a serious problem.

Or we back India. That is our leverage.

41 albusteve  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:07:36pm

re: #37 windsagio

We want to be able to assure that their nuclear weapons are secure from extrmeists. Also we want effective negotiating power in their conflict with India… which could be a serious problem.

stating the obvious?…that’s nothing new

42 jaunte  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:07:53pm

The bin Laden aftermath: Pakistan caught in a web of lies

Since 9/11, Pakistan’s leaders have been lying to the United States, neighboring countries, their own people, and even to one another about fundamental elements of the war on terror.
……
…in the language of the army and its allies in the Pakistani media…[snip]…the terrorists were not simply sons of the soil motivated by revenge and poisoned by a bastardization of their religion - no, they were witting or unwitting agents of a CIA-Mossad-RAW [Indian intelligence] nexus aimed at destroying Pakistan. Al-Qaeda, an organization whose leaders have openly declared war on the Pakistani state, was rarely mentioned.
43 blueraven  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:08:21pm

re: #31 windsagio

Link

Thanks,

But that guy is full of it, he never answered a direct question. I prefer to believe our own security officials when they say, Pakistan was not informed.

44 William of Orange  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:08:48pm

For all his shortcomings, I have to say that Donald Trump stood up like a man and gave credits where they were due, with highest praise for the president personally.

“I want to personally congratulate President Obama and the men and women of the Armed Forces for a job well done”

That’s way better than the Alaskan pussy, who couldn’t get the name of Obama out of her keyboard during her tweet.

“Thank you, American men and women in uniform. You are America’s finest and we are all so proud. Thank you for fighting against terrorism.”
45 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:08:50pm

re: #36 LudwigVanQuixote

The problem isn’t the ‘hostile elements’, its the mass population. It’s that whole hearts and minds thing again.

I mean, we didn’t have a choice… if we’d tipped them (the CNN interview isn’t very convinging lol) he could well have gotten away.

Still, this could have negative impact, and we shouldn’t be so cavalier about it.

46 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:09:26pm

re: #40 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, that’ll help us influence them, backing their most hated enemies.

47 Interesting Times  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:09:35pm

re: #40 LudwigVanQuixote

Or we back India. That is our leverage.

Potential consequences of a nuclear war between Pakistan and India

This is what I fear if Pakistan really goes full-on Somalia…

48 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:09:54pm

re: #43 blueraven

Me too (damn I wish I could edit in instead of just making multiple posts)

49 albusteve  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:10:41pm

re: #47 publicityStunted

Potential consequences of a nuclear war between Pakistan and India

This is what I fear if Pakistan really goes full-on Somalia…

we can take down their nukes if we have to…I’m absolutely positive

50 Varek Raith  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:11:17pm

re: #49 albusteve

we can take down their nukes if we have to…I’m absolutely positive

No, we really can’t.

51 Varek Raith  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:12:26pm

re: #50 Varek Raith

No, we really can’t.

If the nukes fly between the two, it’ll only be a matter of minutes before they hit.

52 Buck  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:15:20pm

re: #44 William of Orange


That’s way better than the Alaskan pussy, who couldn’t get the name of Obama out of her keyboard during her tweet.

Am I the only one offended by the obvious and offensive misogyny?

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:18:27pm

re: #47 publicityStunted

Potential consequences of a nuclear war between Pakistan and India

This is what I fear if Pakistan really goes full-on Somalia…

This is what everyone fears.

One of the largest mistakes of America was letting the Pakistanis get nuclear capability.

Kinda like we are letting Iran get it.

Yes we need to reach hearts and minds.

Fortunately there are many factions in Pakistan. Fortunately there is an educated class there and they really do not like the terrorist and fundamentalist elements. On the other hand it is the place where a woman can be executed on hearsay of insulting the prophet, and where ministers can be assassinated for trying to stop the injustice.

It is not monolithic.

ON the one side, we need to prop up the educated set as much as we can, and by whatever means possible. On the other hand, squashing the bad guys helps also because it takes bad pieces off the board, demoralizes the enemy and gives hope to the educated set.

We need to be clear we are fighting enemies of America and not Islam itself.

As to the fundies, they already would like to die for a chance to hurt us. It is incredible naive and foolish to think that we are going to make them hate us more by any action we take. It is stupid to think they are reasonable folks or that they can be reasoned with.

The biggest and most arrogant conceit of the left is the foolish notion that everyone thinks the same way and that we really are all the same. There is no way that someone brought up in a culture of public executions and martyr mythology thinks about things the same way as someone from the middle class of America. They have a totally different outlook and have been brought up to it and entrenched to it just as much as someone from Ohio has with their views. The thing is, they are utterly different views and they will never ever be reconciled.

In the end, certain ways of thought really are medieval. I really wish people would accept that simple truth, even though it gets in the way of kumabayah fantasies.

54 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:21:42pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

you need to read man :p

The problem is that the non-fundimentalist types in Pakistan are already pissed at us about various things, and being cavalier about this will only make this work.

You’re arguing against a point nobody’s making.

55 windsagio  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:22:55pm

re: #54 windsagio

*worse dammit.

Stupid freudian slips.

56 abolitionist  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:33:59pm

re: #45 windsagio

The problem isn’t the ‘hostile elements’, its the mass population. It’s that whole hearts and minds thing again.

I mean, we didn’t have a choice… if we’d tipped them (the CNN interview isn’t very convinging lol) he could well have gotten away.

Still, this could have negative impact, and we shouldn’t be so cavalier about it.

“The future of any nation, young or old, lies with her children” —introductory quote from this video from March 1962: Jacqueline Kennedy in Pakistan (Colour)

57 Robert O.  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:34:53pm

It is simply unbelievable that Osama bin Laden could hide a few blocks from Pakistan’s West Point or Sandhurst without, at minimum, support by rogue elements of Pakistan’s authorities. There is no question that Pakistan’s security and military apparatuses are highly compromised, and that even if Pakistan’s government wanted to flush out Al Qaeda (I actually think they do, seeing AQ is an existential threat to the Pakistani state), they have no means of getting the job done.

To actually end terrorism in Pakistan , one would need the following:

(a) political settlement of a conflict with India that Pakistan started,
(b) investing in education and wellbeing of Pakistan’s people, so they don’t turn to Islamists for these services,
(c) ending corruption, so people don’t see Islamists as alternatives,
(d) acceptance that Pakistan cannot deal with the terrorism problem on its own and must elicit help from India and the US.

None of (a)-(d) are feasible or practicable. Pakistan is a lost cause. You might as well build a big wall on its borders and throw away the keys.

58 wrenchwench  Mon, May 2, 2011 1:45:47pm

re: #52 Buck

Am I the only one offended by the obvious and offensive misogyny?

I noticed the use of the “p” word, and got lost in a reverie about whether ‘tis worse to call a woman one than a man… and then I forgot about it.

59 Girl with a Pearl Earring  Mon, May 2, 2011 2:02:43pm

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Well said!

60 Girl with a Pearl Earring  Mon, May 2, 2011 2:05:34pm

Yeah, what about the Paks? Given that bin Laden was hiding down the street from the military academy known as Pakistan’s Sandhurst, perhaps he was a guest lecturer on terrorist plotting and hiding from intensive searches.

I’m waiting to hear Pakistan’s excuses for him hiding in plain site of their military in a compound that many must have known about during its construction.

61 Girl with a Pearl Earring  Mon, May 2, 2011 2:12:18pm

Below is a link to an article with CIA ‘s diagrams and aerial photos Of The Bin Laden compound. The diagram in the link below is particularly interesting in that it helps explain the photograph details. Check out the BBC pic of the military academy so close. Link to other picks of the inside at the bottom.

businessinsider.com


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