Just in: CBS reporter Mark Knoller says that in his 60 Minutes interview with Steve Kroft, President Obama said he has decided not to release the picture of Osama bin Laden’s corpse.
3 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 4, 2011 10:33:53am |
Doesn’t bother me.
In any case, the photo will be leaked.
| 4 |
lawhawk Wed, May 4, 2011 10:33:54am |
Geller et. al. will go apoplectic in 3…2…1…. (and will get the obligatory time on CBS or other media outlets to spew nonsense while same media outlets ignore her batshit insane claims that the DoD was on the verge of a coup if the President didn’t order the attack).
| 5 |
HappyWarrior Wed, May 4, 2011 10:35:59am |
I’m fine with their decision one way or the other. And Charles is right htat it will be leaked anyhow.
| 7 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:37:26am |
As I mentioned earlier, if I cannot muster the ability to believe the President, the Cabinet and the military folks on the scene without the benefit of photographic evidence, I ought to find a ne country to live in. I am not an intelligence analyst. Some photo of a bearded dead guy with his brains blown out is not going to change my mind, or likely anybody else’s.
| 8 |
darthstar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:37:33am |
Good decision. I don’t see how releasing the photos does anything to help anyone. And while this will piss off the GOP as their base will use it as evidence to validate their acting even crazier than they did about the birth certificate, it prevents the US from inciting further terror by infuriating Osama’s supporters.
| 9 |
blueraven Wed, May 4, 2011 10:37:39am |
re: #3 Charles
Doesn’t bother me.
In any case, the photo will be leaked.
Same here. I think the President is worried about the backlash from extremist.
Once things cool down a bit, things wont be as volatile. It will come out eventually.
| 10 |
ElCapitanAmerica Wed, May 4, 2011 10:38:07am |
Good choice by the president, and I don’t believe the photo will be leaked.
| 11 |
Randy W. Weeks Wed, May 4, 2011 10:38:11am |
Good.
If that photo is leaked they are doing it themselves or got some bad security going on.
| 12 |
Obdicut Wed, May 4, 2011 10:38:15am |
re: #7 imp_62
As I mentioned earlier, if I cannot muster the ability to believe the President, the Cabinet and the military folks on the scene without the benefit of photographic evidence, I ought to find a ne country to live in. I am not an intelligence analyst. Some photo of a bearded dead guy with his brains blown out is not going to change my mind, or likely anybody else’s.
Well said. In addition, if it’s as gory as is said, it’d be pretty brutal to release it openly. It couldn’t help but be seen as ghoulish.
| 13 |
darthstar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:38:38am |
re: #11 LoneStarSpur
Good.
If that photo is leaked they are doing it themselves or got some bad security going on.
I don’t think Bradley Manning has access this time.
| 14 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 4, 2011 10:38:49am |
Saudi Police: al-Qaida Member Surrenders
Saudi Arabia says an al-Qaida member on the kingdom’s most wanted list called from abroad and turned himself in.
Interior Ministry’s spokesman Maj. Gen. Mansour Al-Turki said in a statement Wednesday that Khaled Hathal Abdullah al-Atifi al-Qahtani contacted the security authorities from an undisclosed country and expressed his wish to come home.
Heh
| 15 |
Spocomptonite Wed, May 4, 2011 10:39:15am |
Probably for the best. I don’t know how anyone else will react after what I said in the last thread, but that really is inappropriate. How many pictures of dead bodies have ever gotten released by any level of government?
However, like Charles says, there is no doubt that the internet won’t deliver (it probably already has), so anyone who really wants to see his corpse can do so through unofficial channels and thus, everyone can be happy.
| 16 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 10:39:16am |
re: #7 imp_62
As I mentioned earlier, if I cannot muster the ability to believe the President, the Cabinet and the military folks on the scene without the benefit of photographic evidence, I ought to find a ne country to live in. I am not an intelligence analyst. Some photo of a bearded dead guy with his brains blown out is not going to change my mind, or likely anybody else’s.
Pffft.. You probably didn’t care about the Long Form either.
| 17 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 4, 2011 10:39:19am |
Here’s how it works out logically: if you already don’t believe the President, no photo is going to make a difference anyway. If you do believe the President, what’s the point of seeing a gory picture?
I’ve seen enough gory pictures. All you have to do to see grotesque images of dead bodies is visit Pamela Geller’s site on any given day.
| 18 |
efuseakay Wed, May 4, 2011 10:39:47am |
re: #3 Charles
Yeah I am sure it will be leaked. I can’t wait for heatmap/layering analysis. That’s what I was really looking forward to… Not the actual photo, but the reaction by certain… people…
| 19 |
darthstar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:39:56am |
re: #12 Obdicut
Well said. In addition, if it’s as gory as is said, it’d be pretty brutal to release it openly. It couldn’t help but be seen as ghoulish.
And for those in leadership positions who call for its release for political purposes (to look like they’re tough on the President), they should be brought into a room, shown a copy, then marched in front of the cameras and told to shut the fuck up.
| 20 |
lawhawk Wed, May 4, 2011 10:40:06am |
It’s another no-win situation for the Administration. Those who dislike this Adminnistration will complain - whether it’s releasing the photo and causing distress among victims; Muslims or not releasing it and leaving the disposition up to speculation.
No skin off my back not to see the death photo (even if that may have leaked yesterday?) I’ll take some comfort in knowing that OBL’s last moments were realizing that it was the US that was taking him down, and that his final ride was a long trip to the bottom of the ocean. Satisfaction that a job was done well by all those involved in the raid. Happy that he’s gone - but knowing that there’s still more to be done to go after his cohorts and minions. Sad that this can’t bring back any of his thousands of victims worldwide.
| 21 |
HappyWarrior Wed, May 4, 2011 10:40:31am |
re: #14 Killgore Trout
Saudi Police: al-Qaida Member Surrenders
Heh
AWesome.May he be the first of many more to come.
| 23 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:40:41am |
re: #19 darthstar
And for those in leadership positions who call for its release for political purposes (to look like they’re tough on the President), they should be brought into a room, shown a copy, then marched in front of the cameras and told to shut the fuck up.
….after they finish puking their guts out.
| 24 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 10:40:53am |
re: #17 Charles
I think the reason they don’t wanna release it is because it’s too gruesome (being shot in the face is funny like htat), and they don’t wanna put out anytthin that makes him look martyr-ey
| 25 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:41:02am |
| 26 |
blueraven Wed, May 4, 2011 10:41:42am |
re: #18 efuseakay
Yeah I am sure it will be leaked. I can’t wait for heatmap/layering analysis. That’s what I was really looking forward to… Not the actual photo, but the reaction by certain… people…
Not worth the risk.
| 28 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 4, 2011 10:42:00am |
re: #14 Killgore Trout
Saudi Police: al-Qaida Member Surrenders
Heh
More: Al Qaeda member surrenders, Saudi Arabia says
It wasn’t immediately possible to ascertain whether Khaled Al-Qahtani is the brother of Mohammed al-Qahtani (pictured at right), a Saudi-born al Qaeda militant detained at the U.S. military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba after being picked up in the battle of Tora Bora, Afghanistan from which bin Laden is believed to have escaped. Mohammed al-Qahtani, 32, was reportedly subjected to severe U.S. torture at the facility, the senior official in charge of the U.S. office of military commissions told the Washington Post’s Bob Woodward.
Of note is that Mohammed al-Qahtani flew to Orlando, Florida from Dubai in August 2001, a month before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, but was sent back to Dubai by U.S. immigration authorities dubious about whether he intended to be an illegal immigrant to the country. U.S. interrogators later said they found airport video surveillance showing the car of lead 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta waiting to pick al-Qahtani up at the Orlando airport.
| 29 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:42:02am |
re: #11 LoneStarSpur
Good.
If that photo is leaked they are doing it themselves or got some bad security going on.
Or a disgruntled PFC with a CD burner.
| 30 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, May 4, 2011 10:42:37am |
re: #14 Killgore Trout
the rats know that if the king rat can be caught and shot dead then it’s only a matter of time before they’re found.
| 31 |
zathras Wed, May 4, 2011 10:42:46am |
This will save the conspiracy theorists the time and effort of “proving” the photo is photo-shopped.
| 32 |
Charles Johnson Wed, May 4, 2011 10:42:46am |
I now believe the photo that came out yesterday is a fake — reportedly, bin Laden’s left eye was destroyed by the bullet that killed him, and in that photo both eyes are intact.
| 33 |
elizajane Wed, May 4, 2011 10:43:50am |
The release of the photo would not satisfy the anti-Obama ghouls (“photos can be doctored! it’s all a plot!”) and would very possibly outrage more radical Muslims who have thus far been pretty darned muted about this killing. So I am relieved if this is the decision and it stays that way.
| 34 |
thatthatisis Wed, May 4, 2011 10:43:55am |
I can’t imagine anyone with brains thinking that our government would lie about Bin Laden being dead, when the subject of the lie could pop up and prove us wrong. That would be soooo embarrassing.
| 35 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, May 4, 2011 10:44:00am |
re: #32 Charles
I now believe the photo that came out yesterday is a fake — reportedly, bin Laden’s left eye was destroyed by the bullet that killed him, and in that photo both eyes are intact.
I thought it looked as though someone had Photoshopped OBL’s chin, from one of the few well-known photos of him, onto the lower part of somebody else’s blasted-out face.
| 36 |
ElCapitanAmerica Wed, May 4, 2011 10:44:12am |
Now I wouldn’t mind to see the video of a soldier kicking his wrapped body into the ocean …
| 38 |
Stan the Demanded Plan Wed, May 4, 2011 10:44:32am |
POTUS:
“Osama Bin Ladin is not a trophy”
Absolutely correct. Sorry ghouls.
| 39 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 4, 2011 10:44:43am |
re: #21 HappyWarrior
AWesome.May he be the first of many more to come.
I think we’re going to see a lot more of this in the next few weeks. Al Qaeda knows they’ve been compromised and there’s no chance of a nice room at Gitmo and a lawyer.
| 40 |
Killgore Trout Wed, May 4, 2011 10:45:33am |
re: #36 ElCapitanAmerica
Now I wouldn’t mind to see the video of a soldier kicking his wrapped body into the ocean …
I’d rather see video of the raid.
| 41 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, May 4, 2011 10:45:48am |
re: #38 Stanley Sea
POTUS:
“Osama Bin Ladin is not a trophy”
Absolutely correct. Sorry ghouls.
As true as that is, immediately after 9/11 I wanted to see his head on a pike on the white house lawn. Part of me still does and I make no apologies for it. It’s human nature to an extent.
| 42 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, May 4, 2011 10:46:17am |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
I’d rather see video of the raid.
I second that. It’s the stuff movies only wish they were made of.
| 43 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 10:47:19am |
re: #41 dreggas
Yeah, its a natural enough feeling, if one we have to fight >
| 44 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 10:47:37am |
| 45 |
HappyWarrior Wed, May 4, 2011 10:47:45am |
re: #39 Killgore Trout
I think we’re going to see a lot more of this in the next few weeks. Al Qaeda knows they’ve been compromised and there’s no chance of a nice room at Gitmo and a lawyer.
Wouldn’t shock me. Wasn’t OBL said to be the charisma behind AQ? His death could perhaps cause some to become disillusioned with the cause. Would be awesome if the intel they found at the compound led them to Al-Zawahiri.
| 46 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Wed, May 4, 2011 10:47:56am |
re: #32 Charles
If it was a fake, it was a damn good one at that.
I didn’t need to see a photo of what’s left of OBL’s head to know that he’s dead, so not releasing the photo is fine by me.
| 47 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 10:48:03am |
re: #42 dreggas
I second that. It’s the stuff movies only wish they were made of.
Reports are that the female director of the Hurt Locker has been shooting a script about a failed raid to get Osama. Re-write!!
| 49 |
lawhawk Wed, May 4, 2011 10:49:05am |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
We may eventually see parts of it - but not all of it lest it give away key details of tactics/methods that can be used down the road.
| 50 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, May 4, 2011 10:50:03am |
re: #3 Charles
Doesn’t bother me.
In any case, the photo will be leaked.
Let’s suppose it is leaked—how could we tell it apart from the Photoshops that are already out there?
| 51 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:50:18am |
| 52 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:50:34am |
re: #50 Alouette
Let’s suppose it is leaked—how could we tell it apart from the Photoshops that are already out there?
Layering.
| 53 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, May 4, 2011 10:51:33am |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Osama bin Laden had 500 Euros and phone numbers sewn into clothing
500 Euros isn’t much.
| 54 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:51:37am |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Osama bin Laden had 500 Euros and phone numbers sewn into clothing
My Name is Usama. If found, please return me to:
Bus fare is sewn into my jacket.
| 56 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 10:51:42am |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Osama bin Laden had 500 Euros and phone numbers sewn into clothing
Planning a night at Fatima’s.
| 57 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:53:08am |
Rummy can’t handle the truth
Rummy: Obama Admin Couldn’t Have Broken bin Laden
On whether Osama bin Laden should have been killed or captured:
“It is probably a good thing that he’s been killed. Certainly, even if he’d been captured, some people are suggesting that there would have been considerable intelligence information that could have been gained by interrogating him. But the interrogation policies of this Administration, I think, would be unlikely to produce much intelligence from Osama bin Laden.”
Except for finally tracking him down and putting a bullet in his head that is.
| 58 |
HappyWarrior Wed, May 4, 2011 10:54:08am |
re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rummy can’t handle the truth
Rummy: Obama Admin Couldn’t Have Broken bin Laden
Except for finally tracking him down and putting a bullet in his head that is.
I see Captain Hindsight is for real.
| 59 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, May 4, 2011 10:54:19am |
I guess releasing the video of his corpse splashing into the sea is out of the question.
| 60 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:55:12am |
| 61 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:55:37am |
re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rummy can’t handle the truth
Rummy: Obama Admin Couldn’t Have Broken bin Laden
Except for finally tracking him down and putting a bullet in his head that is.
Eh, I misread it, he’s talking about interrogating Bin Laden if we captured him.
| 62 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 10:55:48am |
re: #60 imp_62
Let the Pakistani CYA begin:
Does this mean the whole world has the right to patrol parts of Pakistan?
| 63 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 10:55:57am |
re: #59 NJDhockeyfan
I guess releasing the video of his corpse splashing into the sea is out of the question.
Yeah—but anyone so inclined can go to the beach and piss in the surf.
| 64 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:56:40am |
re: #62 EmmmieG
Does this mean the whole world has the right to patrol parts of Pakistan?
It’s an argument which, in German, is called: “I didn’t, but so did he” (Ich nicht, aber er auch)
| 65 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 10:56:42am |
re: #63 Decatur Deb
Yeah—but anyone so inclined can go to the beach and piss in the surf.
And the people playing in the water nearby will kill you for it.
| 66 |
SmithCommaJohn Wed, May 4, 2011 10:56:44am |
This is a treasonous and un-American act of good taste!
| 67 |
darthstar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:56:46am |
re: #25 imp_62
You disgust me. More.
Geller is a vile creature. Finding new ways to illustrate how vile isn’t always easy, and trends toward stomach turning.
| 68 |
darthstar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:57:40am |
re: #63 Decatur Deb
Yeah—but anyone so inclined can go to the beach and piss in the surf.
I do that regularly. I don’t want my pee touching him.
| 69 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 10:57:53am |
re: #60 imp_62
Let the Pakistani CYA begin:
Is their PM named Otter?
“You fucked up, you trusted us.”
| 70 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Wed, May 4, 2011 10:58:01am |
| 71 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:58:52am |
re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Is their PM named Otter?
“You fucked up, you trusted us.”
*snort* Considering the Pakistani government is now in double secret probation, an apt quote.
| 72 |
Zathras Wed, May 4, 2011 10:59:31am |
re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Osama bin Laden had 500 Euros and phone numbers sewn into clothing
In US currency, this gives him about 10 dollars to stuff into the G-string of each of the 72 virgins he has now, right?
| 73 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 10:59:52am |
re: #70 Dreggas
TX teacherr suspended after telling muslim student “I bet you’re grieving”
Douchebag
| 74 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Wed, May 4, 2011 10:59:59am |
re: #71 imp_62
*snort* Considering the Pakistani government is now in double secret probation, an apt quote.
Since when did Pakistan have a team in NASCAR?
/
| 75 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:00:05am |
re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
What a fucking loathesome person. Seriously.
| 76 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:00:29am |
re: #70 Dreggas
One tries not to feed stereotypes, but “Oh, Texas!”
| 77 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 4, 2011 11:00:39am |
re: #72 Zathras
In US currency, this gives him about 10 dollars to stuff into the G-string of each of the 72 virgins he has now, right?
They say you can’t take it with you.
Maybe the SEALS can buy lunch.
| 79 |
S.D. Wed, May 4, 2011 11:01:35am |
IMO, Good.
We are not a country of Death Worshipers and the word of the Seal team should be more than enough for anyone.
| 80 |
calochortus Wed, May 4, 2011 11:01:49am |
re: #70 Dreggas
TX teacherr suspended after telling muslim student “I bet you’re grieving”
Just a drive-by to say if this is true this teacher needs to be fired immediately and ostracized by the entire community. Not that that is a likely reaction.
| 81 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 11:02:12am |
re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist
They say you can’t take it with you.
Maybe the SEALS can buy lunch.
These guys will never pay for another drink or meal as long as they live.
| 82 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 4, 2011 11:02:12am |
re: #78 wee fury
No photo. Good.
I want to see the photos. But apparently I’m not going to get to. Oh well.
| 83 |
SmithCommaJohn Wed, May 4, 2011 11:02:37am |
re: #70 Dreggas
TX teacherr suspended after telling muslim student “I bet you’re grieving”
You stay classy, Texas!
| 84 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 11:02:42am |
re: #80 calochortus
Just a drive-by to say if this is true this teacher needs to be fired immediately and ostracized by the entire community. Not that that is a likely reaction.
Its Texas. This guy will be a Tea Party darling for months.
| 85 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:03:15am |
re: #77 SanFranciscoZionist
you know, you’ve gotta wonder. It has to be against the rules, but think any of those SEALS or the CIA guys took any souvenirs?
| 86 |
abbyadams Wed, May 4, 2011 11:03:24am |
I’m going to add to the “good” chorus. The wingnuts will believe it’s faked, anyway, and it will keep Islamic extremists from having that piece of evidence to cling to.
| 87 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:03:31am |
good choice as previously explained….pictures prove nothing
| 88 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:03:41am |
re: #81 imp_62
not that most people will ever know exactly which ones they are, or at least not for decades.
| 89 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 11:04:13am |
re: #85 windsagio
you know, you’ve gotta wonder. It has to be against the rules, but think any of those SEALS or the CIA guys took any souvenirs?
I hate to speculate. Wait - I love to speculate… I say, yes.
| 90 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 11:04:42am |
re: #88 windsagio
not that most people will ever know exactly which ones they are, or at least not for decades.
Their buddies know. Plus, just being a SEAL will be enough for a while.
| 91 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 11:05:17am |
re: #85 windsagio
you know, you’ve gotta wonder. It has to be against the rules, but think any of those SEALS or the CIA guys took any souvenirs?
I doubt it, but I’ll check eBay.
| 92 |
aagcobb Wed, May 4, 2011 11:06:39am |
If a single US soldier was killed because of outrage due to the U.S. putting OBL’s death photo on display, its not worth it. Noone who thinks OBL’s death is a hoax will believe the photo is genuine anyway.
| 93 |
leftynyc Wed, May 4, 2011 11:06:39am |
re: #8 darthstar
Good decision. I don’t see how releasing the photos does anything to help anyone. And while this will piss off the GOP as their base will use it as evidence to validate their acting even crazier than they did about the birth certificate, it prevents the US from inciting further terror by infuriating Osama’s supporters.
He should show it to every member of congress and let them deal with the crazies who think there is something to hide. I was stunned into silence when I heard that 8 members of congress knew about the raid and it didn’t get leaked.
| 94 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 11:07:04am |
re: #85 windsagio
you know, you’ve gotta wonder. It has to be against the rules, but think any of those SEALS or the CIA guys took any souvenirs?
Not if they are professionals, but I understand they picked up a few souvenirs for the CIA.
| 96 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 4, 2011 11:07:41am |
re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Its Texas. This guy will be a Tea Party darling for months.
It could have happened in California just as easily. Probably did, in fact. Remember, for every kid who tells at home, and the parents make a fuss, there’s probably several more who don’t.
| 97 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 11:07:52am |
re: #94 EmmmieG
Not if they are professionals, but I understand they picked up a few souvenirs for the CIA.
CIA says “ouch”.
Where is “Girl with a Pearl Necklace” to defend her honour?
| 98 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 11:08:56am |
I’d like to picture a Christmas tree deep inside the CIA. There are all kinds of interesting ornaments hanging on it.
Just because.
(I buy Christmas ornament on vacation, mostly because I want something to remember the vacation, but most souvenirs are pretty tacky. Christmas trees are tacky by definition, so it works.)
| 99 |
lostlakehiker Wed, May 4, 2011 11:09:23am |
re: #3 Charles
Doesn’t bother me.
In any case, the photo will be leaked.
I wonder. The administration has demonstrated an ability to keep some things under its hat. If the circle of distribution up to now is the same narrow circle that was in on the operation, the thing might well stay archived for decades.
| 100 |
wee fury Wed, May 4, 2011 11:09:30am |
re: #82 SanFranciscoZionist
I want to see the photos. But apparently I’m not going to get to. Oh well.
Terrorists would make any released photo into a symbol for vengeance against the US.
| 101 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, May 4, 2011 11:10:02am |
Native Americans are pissed off today:
Onondaga Nation leaders blast ‘Geronimo’ codename for Bin Laden
Onondaga Nation Territory — Leaders of the Onondaga Nation blasted as “reprehensible” the code name used for Osama bin Laden in the commando assault that killed him: “Geronimo.”
“We’ve ID’d Geronimo,” U.S. forces reported by radio Sunday to the White House. Later, word came that “Geronimo” was dead.
Geronimo was an Apache leader in the 19th century who spent many years fighting the Mexican and U.S. armies until his surrender in 1886.
“Think of the outcry if they had used any other ethnic group’s hero,” the Onondaga Council of Chiefs said in a release Tuesday. “Geronimo bravely and heroically defended his homeland and his people, eventually surrendering and living out the rest of his days peacefully, if in captivity.”
“Geronimo is arguably the most recognized Native American name in the world,” the chiefs said, “and this comparison only serves to perpetuate negative stereotypes about our people.”
| 102 |
zora Wed, May 4, 2011 11:10:24am |
re: #60 imp_62
Let the Pakistani CYA begin:
except he wasn’t living in the entire world’s safe house.
| 103 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 11:10:28am |
re: #97 imp_62
CIA says “ouch”.
Where is “Girl with a Pearl Necklace” to defend her honour?
I think you misunderstood me. I meant thumb drives and cell phones.
| 104 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:10:36am |
re: #98 EmmmieG
man for a minute there, I thought you said you buy a TREE each time you go on vacation >>
Ornaments make more sense.
| 105 |
Kragar Wed, May 4, 2011 11:10:43am |
re: #100 wee fury
Terrorists would make any released photo into a symbol for vengeance against the US.
Because they’ve always suffered a dearth of symbols in the past.
| 106 |
NJDhockeyfan Wed, May 4, 2011 11:11:09am |
re: #100 wee fury
Terrorists would make any released photo into a symbol for vengeance against the US.
Do they really need photos for that? They already are trying to kill us.
| 107 |
Petero1818 Wed, May 4, 2011 11:11:10am |
I am fine with the decision, but I do think that for many, they will be left without satisfaction, and I am not referring to wingnut conspiracy mongers. For many people, the images they saw on 9/11 are lasting and haunting. Images define the experience for many in a media driven world. I think an image of Bin Laden dead would bring for lack of a better term, visual closure to the story. I think they could achieve this by showing the more respectful, less grotesque image that they have in the burial shroud. While it is apparently not as helpful for positive identification as the gory one, it would bring visual closure for a lot of people IMHO, and is a reasonable compromise.
| 108 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 4, 2011 11:11:31am |
re: #100 wee fury
Terrorists would make any released photo into a symbol for vengeance against the US.
Terrorists will make the faked photos into same. But I do see your point.
I’m not upset about this. Time and Newsweek will do detailed issues on the raid, and that will give me something physical to pore over and internalize.
I’m a simple news wonk, really.
| 109 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, May 4, 2011 11:12:01am |
re: #101 NJDhockeyfan
Native Americans are pissed off today:
Onondaga Nation leaders blast ‘Geronimo’ codename for Bin Laden
I said something about that yesterday. Didn’t seem altogether fittin’, although I do understand the connection they made.
| 110 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 11:12:11am |
re: #103 EmmmieG
I think you misunderstood me. I meant thumb drives and cell phones.
I thought you were thumbing the CIA in the eye. Sorry. Plus I am not sure it is the CIA that does the tech evals.
| 111 |
Buck Wed, May 4, 2011 11:12:18am |
re: #32 Charles
I now believe the photo that came out yesterday is a fake — reportedly, bin Laden’s left eye was destroyed by the bullet that killed him, and in that photo both eyes are intact.
The fake photo is spam bait. On FB, it spread like wildfire, and spread spam throughout the system. Emails with “see the Osama bin Laden death video” are pointing to sites that plant trojans…
| 112 |
Bubblehead II Wed, May 4, 2011 11:12:49am |
Afternoon Lizards. Not releasing the pics? Fine by me. In this matter I just happen to believe what our Government is telling us. To believe otherwise would be insane. But then again, that is probably why I hang out here instead of the fever swamps.
| 113 |
HappyWarrior Wed, May 4, 2011 11:13:23am |
re: #111 Buck
The fake photo is spam bait. On FB, it spread like wildfire, and spread spam throughout the system. Emails with “see the Osama bin Laden death video” are pointing to sites that plant trojans…
Ah is that what that was? Glad I never accept any of those since they always look fishy to me whether it’s the mysterious Megan Fox without makeup photo or this.
| 114 |
wee fury Wed, May 4, 2011 11:13:50am |
The photo would be … … . sort of like the book by Rushdie … hard copy.
| 115 |
Semper Fi Wed, May 4, 2011 11:14:09am |
re: #70 Dreggas
TX teacherr suspended after telling muslim student “I bet you’re grieving”
Seems people like that teacher just cannot help themselves. Their true feelings cannot really be always hidden. I feel embarrassed and disappointed at the same time. I hope the other students weren’t similarly infected by him.
| 116 |
Political Atheist Wed, May 4, 2011 11:15:14am |
I’m happy with the decision. The logic Charles pointed out is clear as can be. I do not need want the spectacle on my monitor or newspaper, then stuck in my memory.
| 117 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:15:25am |
this demand for closure and peace of mind and all that rot just shows how insecure people are…another form of herd mentality, like children….the pics do not prove anything….take your silly closure and park it….it’s over
| 118 |
McSpiff Wed, May 4, 2011 11:15:27am |
The lack of pics doesn’t bother me, but I still wish there was B-2s over Islamabad…
| 119 |
shutdown Wed, May 4, 2011 11:15:34am |
| 120 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 11:15:42am |
re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist
I said something about that yesterday. Didn’t seem altogether fittin’, although I do understand the connection they made.
And the Onondaga being upset about Geronimo is a lot like the Romanians being upset about Michael Collins. The original Americans were a rather diverse lot.
| 121 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:16:05am |
re: #115 Semper Fi
It’s the ‘your slip is showing’ factor >>
| 122 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:17:00am |
re: #120 Decatur Deb
I think the problem is that geronimo was the target. Nobody complains when they yell that jumping out of planes.
| 123 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, May 4, 2011 11:18:07am |
re: #120 Decatur Deb
And the Onondaga being upset about Geronimo is a lot like the Romanians being upset about Michael Collins. The original Americans were a rather diverse lot.
The reason we use “Native American” or “Indian” or “American Indian” is that there is no native word to be used.
For that matter, there was no common language.
| 124 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:18:19am |
re: #120 Decatur Deb
And the Onondaga being upset about Geronimo is a lot like the Romanians being upset about Michael Collins. The original Americans were a rather diverse lot.
Geronimo earned his reputation…he was an unrepentant killer
and further the Apache were maybe the least of the noble indians….they stole, kidnapped and murdered for a living
| 125 |
simoom Wed, May 4, 2011 11:18:32am |
Shortly after the President’s announcement it was reported that AQ/Taliban sources were confirming that OBL was dead. Sure, there may be conspiracy theories among the general populace of the middle east, but I’m not sure that really matters as he was extremely unpopular among most already, even in Pakistan.
Also this avoids the inevitable photoshops of the corpse photo that would have popped up in the RW blogoshere and in comment sections across the internet. Imagine any possible way of desecrating a body and there would have been a photoshoped simulation of it.
| 126 |
lostlakehiker Wed, May 4, 2011 11:19:10am |
re: #41 dreggas
As true as that is, immediately after 9/11 I wanted to see his head on a pike on the white house lawn. Part of me still does and I make no apologies for it. It’s human nature to an extent.
Human nature is not that pretty a thing, sometimes. We can well guess what the Roman Empire would have done. Hold a Triumph, etc. Unbidden, a part of my mind, too, constructs such scenarios.
The good news is that the U.S. is not, in the end, that kind of people. We didn’t do that with Tojo or Goering. The impulse to such behavior is an animal imperative: the more you ravage your enemy’s body, the less chance he’ll cheat death by playing possum. Not thought through, just hardwired.
We know he’s dead. That’s good enough. We are animals, but we think better than the other animals and this gives us more insight into right vs. wrong. Plus, we can remember across the generations because we have writing. We know the consequences to the tone of a society of such obscene revels.
| 127 |
Semper Fi Wed, May 4, 2011 11:19:11am |
| 128 |
ElCapitanAmerica Wed, May 4, 2011 11:19:16am |
re: #122 windsagio
The name of the target was jackpot, the mission was called Geronimo;
[Link: www.slate.com…]
They’re complaining about nothing and looking like asses.
| 129 |
Decatur Deb Wed, May 4, 2011 11:19:23am |
re: #124 albusteve
Geronimo earned his reputation…he was an unrepentant killer
and further the Apache were maybe the least of the noble indians…they stole, kidnapped and murdered for a living
There was a lot of that going around.
| 130 |
leftynyc Wed, May 4, 2011 11:19:57am |
re: #80 calochortus
Just a drive-by to say if this is true this teacher needs to be fired immediately and ostracized by the entire community. Not that that is a likely reaction.
It’s Texas - I think maybe a promotion.
| 131 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:20:22am |
re: #124 albusteve
You ever read Mark Twain on indians? You’d probably dig it (altho it runs a little rough on modern ears).
He takes a direct run at the ‘noble savage’ myth quite a few times.
| 132 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:21:40am |
re: #131 windsagio
You ever read Mark Twain on indians? You’d probably dig it (altho it runs a little rough on modern ears).
He takes a direct run at the ‘noble savage’ myth quite a few times.
like anything else, some were ‘noble’ and some were not….
it’s never all or nothing
| 133 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:22:23am |
re: #131 windsagio
sorry…no I have not read that from Twain
| 134 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:22:50am |
re: #132 albusteve
yes, but thats not answering my questoin :p
| 135 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, May 4, 2011 11:23:02am |
re: #131 windsagio
You ever read Mark Twain on indians? You’d probably dig it (altho it runs a little rough on modern ears).
He takes a direct run at the ‘noble savage’ myth quite a few times.
What, “Injun Joe”?
| 136 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:25:35am |
re: #133 albusteve
damn, I’m too slow, sorry >> you DID answer my question.
re: #135 Alouette
I was thinking about a section in ‘Roughing it” and an essay called ‘The literary offenses of James Fenimore Cooper”.
They’re both really well written, but especially the first one, is kind of racist.
Steves use of invective reminds me of Twain’s writing sometimes, that’s what made me htink of it (and no I am in no way saying Albusteve is racist against indians)
| 137 |
iceweasel Wed, May 4, 2011 11:25:35am |
re: #33 elizajane
The release of the photo would not satisfy the anti-Obama ghouls (“photos can be doctored! it’s all a plot!”) and would very possibly outrage more radical Muslims who have thus far been pretty darned muted about this killing. So I am relieved if this is the decision and it stays that way.
That’s what they say at the link Charles gave:
“The risks of release outweigh the benefits,” Rogers said. “Conspiracy theorists around the world will just claim the photos are doctored anyway, and there is a real risk that releasing the photos will only serve to inflame public opinion in the Middle East.”
“Imagine how the American people would react if Al Qaeda killed one of our troops or military leaders, and put photos of the body on the internet,” Rogers continued. “Osama bin Laden is not a trophy - he is dead and let’s now focus on continuing the fight until Al Qaida has been eliminated.”
Sounds right to me.
| 138 |
leftynyc Wed, May 4, 2011 11:25:59am |
re: #117 albusteve
this demand for closure and peace of mind and all that rot just shows how insecure people are…another form of herd mentality, like children…the pics do not prove anything…take your silly closure and park it…it’s over
I understand your point perfectly, however, I’ve read that some of the families of 9/11 victims want to see evidence. Do you think it should be shown to them?
| 139 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:27:34am |
I’m an Native American nut and I give more credit and have more respect for Geronimo than he probably deserves….he and his people were hunted down and killed, they were treated terrible, but in context there was a reason for that criminal behavior….the Apache raged up and down the Rio Grande valley for 300 years, and it was not pretty
| 140 |
Ericus58 Wed, May 4, 2011 11:28:24am |
re: #81 imp_62
These guys will never pay for another drink or meal as long as they live.
They won’t be known.
For the reason of protecting their families.
| 141 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:28:34am |
re: #136 windsagio
damn, I’m too slow, sorry >> you DID answer my question.
re: #135 Alouette
I was thinking about a section in ‘Roughing it” and an essay called ‘The literary offenses of James Fenimore Cooper”.
They’re both really well written, but especially the first one, is kind of racist.
Steves use of invective reminds me of Twain’s writing sometimes, that’s what made me htink of it (and no I am in no way saying Albusteve is racist against indians)
I tried to cop Roughing It at a couple of libraries…I need to go buy it
| 142 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:29:43am |
re: #138 leftynyc
I understand your point perfectly, however, I’ve read that some of the families of 9/11 victims want to see evidence. Do you think it should be shown to them?
the pictures are not evidence, that’s the entire point
| 143 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, May 4, 2011 11:29:46am |
re: #132 albusteve
like anything else, some were ‘noble’ and some were not…
it’s never all or nothing
I think one of the most interesting way this was stated was by John Keegan (a British military historian) in _Fields of Battle: The Wars for North America_. He essentially said that anyone expecting European and American civilization to leave half (or more) of the North American continent to what were essentially sets of barbarians are not thinking logically or rationally about the situation as it existed in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Aside: This is a bit unfair to the Native American since they were varied in composition, outlook, behaviors, and also have fairly rich cultural heritages. But, on the other hand, Keegan does have a point that especially in that time period a hands-off attitude was simply not going to hold up in the long term.
| 144 |
windsagio Wed, May 4, 2011 11:30:56am |
re: #141 albusteve
If I read you right at all, you would so love that book.
Anyways, its a beautiful day out and I’m not spending it in a basement. See y’all later :D
| 145 |
albusteve Wed, May 4, 2011 11:32:11am |
re: #143 oaktree
I think one of the most interesting way this was stated was by John Keegan (a British military historian) in _Fields of Battle: The Wars for North America_. He essentially said that anyone expecting European and American civilization to leave half (or more) of the North American continent to what were essentially sets of barbarians are not thinking logically or rationally about the situation as it existed in the 18th and 19th centuries.
Aside: This is a bit unfair to the Native American since they were varied in composition, outlook, behaviors, and also have fairly rich cultural heritages. But, on the other hand, Keegan does have a point that especially in that time period a hands-off attitude was simply not going to hold up in the long term.
agreed, they were doomed from the beginning, but flat out extermination is unacceptable
| 146 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, May 4, 2011 11:34:45am |
re: #145 albusteve
agreed, they were doomed from the beginning, but flat out extermination is unacceptable
Not to mention the working over the ones who tried to assimilate (and perhaps were succeeding too well) got; e.g. the Cherokee.
| 147 |
leftynyc Wed, May 4, 2011 11:36:23am |
re: #142 albusteve
the pictures are not evidence, that’s the entire point
Agree. I know one of the families and haven’t discussed this with them. They were just happy he was dead and I didn’t get the feeling they needed “proof”.
| 148 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, May 4, 2011 11:40:18am |
The point is not to prove anything, it is to be given another chance to revel and to rub it in the Muslim world’s face.
The former is unnecessary, the latter is quite counterproductive.
| 149 |
SmithCommaJohn Wed, May 4, 2011 11:42:23am |
This is obvious proof that Osama is still alive, and that Obama is letting him stay, for free, in the Lincoln Bedroom. Obama is keeping Osama around so he can appoint him to the Supreme Court and/or the death panels.
-P.G.
| 150 |
SidewaysQuark Wed, May 4, 2011 11:46:47am |
My solution would be to allow anyone with a medical coroner’s license or such other valid expertise who’s willing to be searched for cameras view the pics in a specified location. Takes the barbarity out of it and helps quell the “credibility” of any conspiracy theories.
| 151 |
steve_davis Wed, May 4, 2011 12:19:06pm |
re: #37 windsagio
It’s just like Kennedy, but in reverse.
“Forward…and to the right. Forward….and to the right.”
| 152 |
Usually refered to as anyways Wed, May 4, 2011 3:06:19pm |
Why is Obama concerned with peoples dainty sensibilities.
/
| 153 |
Girl with a Pearl Earring Wed, May 4, 2011 5:07:44pm |
re: #131 windsagio
You ever read Mark Twain on indians? You’d probably dig it (altho it runs a little rough on modern ears).
He takes a direct run at the ‘noble savage’ myth quite a few times.
I’ve always wondered what was so “noble” about savagery……the question apparently never occurred to those who invented the myth.
| 154 |
Ming Wed, May 4, 2011 5:34:14pm |
It’s a tough decision about releasing the photo, but I was hoping Obama wouldn’t release it. Of course, the photo may get leaked someday, but that’s life. For the White House to officially release the photo is different than a leak. An official release seems negative and immature. The point is not exactly how Bin Laden died; the point is that Bin Laden won’t plan any more terrorist attacks, and the intelligence on Bin Laden’s hard drives, apparently secured by our military, should be very helpful. We had to achieve all this by using violence, but there’s no need to call further attention to the violence, via the photo.
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