Frum Forum Asks a Question That Answers Itself

Uh, maybe because he’s crazy too?
Wingnuts • Views: 29,805

At FrumForum, Noah Kristula-Green and Tim Mak ask the poignant question: Why is Pawlenty On Stage With These Crazy People?

Their premise is that Tim Pawlenty is the only really electable candidate out of the extremist loons who participated in last night’s GOP debate.

Which is just ludicrous, of course, because Pawlenty’s crazy credentials are fully up to date. Don’t believe the propaganda from GOP operatives, trying to tell you that Pawlenty is some kind of “moderate.”

See:
Tim Pawlenty Endorses Another Anti-Gay Hate Group
Tim Pawlenty Gives Interview to Religious Right’s Most Crazed Fanatic: Wants to Reinstate DADT
Why I Left the Right, Exhibit P for Pawlenty
Pawlenty: Another GOP Creationist on the Rise
A Reply to David Frum

There may have been a time when the “moderate” label could have been properly applied to Tim Pawlenty, but that time is long past.

Jump to bottom

311 comments
1 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:35:14am

The obvious explanation is that Frum is himself basically an extremist. He's just better at using coded language than some of the others.

2 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:35:50am

Why is Pawlenty On Stage With These Crazy People?

He's auditioning for American Nutjob, the hot new show on Fox.

3 Interesting Times  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:36:55am

GOP moderates? I believe they went the same way as this.

4 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:36:57am

Pawlenty is no moderate as you've already said.

5 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:39:27am

Anybody who calls himself "T-Paw" deserves to be on stage with the crazies.

6 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:40:40am

re: #5 darthstar

Anybody who calls himself "T-Paw" deserves to be on stage with the crazies.

But it proves he's hip with the young kids.

7 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:40:53am

This is the best and brightest that the GOP has to offer? They really are in serious trouble for the presidential elections in 2012.

To say that their lineup is thin is an understatement.

I can't wait for 18 months of incessant luap nor nonsense, bookended by Gary Johnson and Herman Cain and throw in Santorum for good measure. I'm sure that only good things can come of this.

8 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:41:39am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But it proves he's hip with the young kids.

Okay, so he's locked up the 12 year old middle class white kid vote. now what?

9 Bulworth  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:41:53am

Shorter T-Paw: We don't torture and I don't support torture but if we did torture it's OK because even if torture is bad it isn't bad if we do it, which we don't, but torture works and Obama's a weenie.

10 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:42:17am

re: #8 darthstar

Okay, so he's locked up the 12 year old middle class white kid vote. now what?

Step 2) ???
Step 3) PROFIT!

11 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:44:22am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or relentlessly mocked.

12 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:44:52am

Why you no throw stick?

Seriously, what does this say about the dog's owner that he would rather play with a statue?

13 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:45:28am

re: #11 lawhawk

Or relentlessly mocked.

A position I am equally comfortable with.

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:45:51am

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But it proves he's hip with the young kids.

No, it proves he thinks he's a Vulcan woman, which he is, I'm pretty sure, not.

15 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:47:35am

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

No, it proves he thinks he's a Vulcan woman, which he is, I'm pretty sure, not.

Are you sure? I thought he was T-Pain's adoptive father.

16 Bulworth  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:47:49am

Another shorter T-Paw/Santorum: I don't support torture unless we do it or unless it works. And the greatest problem in America today is a rampant "the ends justifies the means" moral relativism, which is the liberal's fault.

17 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:49:32am

re: #16 Bulworth

Seriously. The moral relativism of the right today is pretty striking when you justapose it against the right's constant diatribes about the moral decay of the left.

How's this for a non-relative moral argument: Torture is wrong. In all cases. Period. End of fucking discussion.

18 lostlakehiker  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:50:05am

re: #5 darthstar

Anybody who calls himself "T-Paw" deserves to be on stage with the crazies.

He could have dug himself a deeper hole, (tea-hea) and chosen the nick T-Pawty.

19 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:51:52am

re: #16 Bulworth

Another shorter T-Paw/Santorum: I don't support torture unless we do it or unless it works. And the greatest problem in America today is a rampant "the ends justifies the means" moral relativism, which is the liberal's fault.

But the ends DO justify the means, so long as you don't lose too many votes to win the election. (pretty much sums up the current Republican campaign "strategy").

20 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 10:52:26am

re: #16 Bulworth

Another shorter T-Paw/Santorum: I don't support torture unless we do it or unless it works. And the greatest problem in America today is a rampant "the ends justifies the means" moral relativism, which is the liberal's fault.

I was commenting last night that it looked like Santorum was lip synching his answers. In the last 40 minutes or so of the debate, my wife got home, saw Santorum talking on the TV, and said, "Is the audio out of synch with the video on that broadcast?" Then saw someone else speak and said, "Who was that guy? He doesn't move his mouth to form words?

21 funky chicken  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:02:47am

I dunno. Pawlenty was the least crazy person on the stage, from what I've read.

He's still crazy, of course.

22 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:04:07am

re: #21 funky chicken

I dunno. Pawlenty was the least crazy person on the stage, from what I've read.

He's still crazy, of course.

Least crazy is a relative term.

23 lostlakehiker  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:07:25am

re: #17 Fozzie Bear

Seriously. The moral relativism of the right today is pretty striking when you justapose it against the right's constant diatribes about the moral decay of the left.

How's this for a non-relative moral argument: Torture is wrong. In all cases. Period. End of fucking discussion.

Seriously, you're just wrong. It's fun to get up on the high horse and all, but the gold standard of morality is life. Move the stakes high enough (nuclear weapon set to detonate, subject knows where it is and will talk if cattle-prodded, clock is ticking) and the moral thing to do is to prevent a ghastly tragedy. Even if that means torturing the needed information out of the guy.

You can argue that torture never works, but that's an argument from expedience and that puts it in the realm of factual dispute. Given an experiment that demonstrated that it did so work, and better than any proposed alternative, under thus and so circumstances, you'd be forced by the logic of the case you made initially to concede the point.

You can argue that you'd rather those millions get vaporized, than stoop to torture. But really. The underlying principle that torture is wrong is based on the idea that it's wrong because pain and suffering and death are bad, not just for yourself, but for others. You can't abandon the root of morality in favor of this or that offshoot.

Torture is almost always wrong. It almost never works. There are almost always better means of interrogation. Fine. That far I'll go. Maybe you want it made illegal in all cases, with a death penalty for any infraction. OK. The temptation to turn to torture when you shouldn't may run deep and drastic laws might be necessary to curb that inclination.

But still, there could be situations where the morally right thing to do is to bring down that penalty on yourself, and do what has to be done.

This isn't moral relativism. It's just putting first things first. Do not murder people. Do not stand by and let them be murdered. Honor and defend innocent life.

24 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:08:47am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

There is never a time you can know that torture is the right solution. Ever.

25 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:14:44am

re: #7 lawhawk

This is the best and brightest that the GOP has to offer? They really are in serious trouble for the presidential elections in 2012.

To say that their lineup is thin is an understatement.

I can't wait for 18 months of incessant luap nor nonsense, bookended by Gary Johnson and Herman Cain and throw in Santorum for good measure. I'm sure that only good things can come of this.

So where was Huckabee and Romney in last night's debate? (Or should I know the answer to that already).

26 wrenchwench  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:15:34am

Co-author of the linked article:

Tim Mak is a reporter and columnist for FrumForum.com. Previously, Tim was a Koch Fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

I don't think he has the proper training in Crazy Person Identification.

27 justaminute  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:16:04am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

In the ticking time bomb scenario, how far is to far? If you didn't get your answers, if you had his family, would you torture his family to get him to talk? What's the line that we will definitely not cross and still be able to call ourselves moral human beings?

28 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:17:05am

re: #9 Bulworth

Shorter T-Paw: We don't torture and I don't support torture but if we did torture it's OK because even if torture is bad it isn't bad if we do it, which we don't, but torture works and Obama's a weenie.

A weenie who caught #1 World Terrorist!

29 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:19:22am

re: #27 justaminute

The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas

30 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:19:48am

re: #28 marjoriemoon

A weenie who caught #1 World Terrorist!

Heh yep.

31 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:19:59am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

By the way, this same reasoning can be used, as in the above story, to justify torturing, killing, or what have you the innocent for the greater good.

32 charlz  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:20:36am

re: #25 marjoriemoon

So where was Huckabee and Romney in last night's debate? (Or should I know the answer to that already).

I believe the rules required that a participant had to have formed an exploratory committee thus no Huckabee. I think Romney is trying to maintain some separation from the crazies and why not? he's leading in NH by a good margin over Trump.

33 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:21:29am

Obama's wallet is made of chupacabra leather.

If he were to mail a letter without postage, it would still get there.

He taught a horse to read his email for him.

His personality is so magnetic, he is unable to carry credit cards.

His charm is so contagious, vaccines we’re created for it.

He's the most interesting man in the world!

34 mikefromArlington  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:21:32am

I wonder what Romney or Pawlenty really think of the Republican base.

35 Romantic Heretic  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:21:59am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

Seriously, you're just wrong. It's fun to get up on the high horse and all, but the gold standard of morality is life. Move the stakes high enough (nuclear weapon set to detonate, subject knows where it is and will talk if cattle-prodded, clock is ticking) and the moral thing to do is to prevent a ghastly tragedy. Even if that means torturing the needed information out of the guy.

You can argue that torture never works, but that's an argument from expedience and that puts it in the realm of factual dispute. Given an experiment that demonstrated that it did so work, and better than any proposed alternative, under thus and so circumstances, you'd be forced by the logic of the case you made initially to concede the point.

You can argue that you'd rather those millions get vaporized, than stoop to torture. But really. The underlying principle that torture is wrong is based on the idea that it's wrong because pain and suffering and death are bad, not just for yourself, but for others. You can't abandon the root of morality in favor of this or that offshoot.

Torture is almost always wrong. It almost never works. There are almost always better means of interrogation. Fine. That far I'll go. Maybe you want it made illegal in all cases, with a death penalty for any infraction. OK. The temptation to turn to torture when you shouldn't may run deep and drastic laws might be necessary to curb that inclination.

But still, there could be situations where the morally right thing to do is to bring down that penalty on yourself, and do what has to be done.

This isn't moral relativism. It's just putting first things first. Do not murder people. Do not stand by and let them be murdered. Honor and defend innocent life.

Why do the torture supporters always bring up this weak argument? It's like they believe the world is an episode of 24 or a Tom Clancy novel.

Pretty sad, really.

36 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:22:01am

re: #26 wrenchwench

Co-author of the linked article:

I don't think he has the proper training in Crazy Person Identification.

It takes one to know one.

37 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:22:25am

re: #32 charlz

I believe the rules required that a participant had to have formed an exploratory committee thus no Huckabee. I think Romney is trying to maintain some separation from the crazies and why not? he's leading in NH by a good margin over Trump.

Que es "exploratory committee"?

38 jaunte  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:22:41am

T-Paw:

Intelligent design is something that, in my view, is plausible and credible and something that I personally believe in but, more importantly, from an educational and scientific standpoint, it should be decided by local school boards at the local school district level.
39 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:23:17am

re: #34 mikefromArlington

I wonder what Romney or Pawlenty really think of the Republican base.

"Damn you people. Go back to your shanties."

40 charlz  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:24:09am

re: #37 marjoriemoon

Que es "exploratory committee"?

Wikipedia answer:
In the election politics of the United States, an exploratory committee is an organization established to help determine whether a potential candidate should run for an elected office. They are most often cited in reference to United States Presidential hopefuls, prior to the primaries.

41 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:24:19am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

I gave up. The anti-waterboarding folks have such an emotional investment in their position that the conversation degrades pretty quickly.

42 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:24:53am

Charles, check out the latest nontroversy;

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

----------
No, President Obama Didn't Have A Flag Removed From Ground Zero

May 06, 2011 12:16 pm ET by Oliver Willis
ABC News' Jake Tapper published the following Tweet yesterday, showing cranes removing a U.S. flag from the Ground Zero site with the caption, "One minute to air and they decided to take the flag down from the live shot":

-----------

Reaction;

Doug Ross, in a post headlined, "WTF at WTC? Obama Has American Flag Removed From Ground Zero Site Moments Before Photo Shoot!":

This administration and, by extension, the Democrat Party are now so thoroughly divorced from the history, traditions and morals of America that we might as well admit the Marxist left has executed a successful coup d'état on this Republic.

Weasel Zippers posted the story with the following headline:
Wow: Team Obama Removes American Flag From Ground Zero Moments Before Live Shoot...

Fire Andrea Mitchell:
What an absolutely pitiful little manchild Obama is. As if turning his back on Debra Burlingame (sister of Charles Burlingame who piloted the plane that went down at the Pentagon during 9/11) wasn't pitiful enough. Now we learn that the Obama regime had an American flag removed from the live shot of his photo op at Ground Zero today.

Michelle Malkin:
Does flying the American flag at Ground Zero now constitute "spiking the football???"
------------------

Some of them already apologized. Look at Tapper's reaction to this on twitter;

--------------
jaketapper Jake Tapper
Bloggers who created a lie about the flag based on my innocuous tweet: please feel free to unfollow. don't want my facts to become your lies
9 minutes ago
--------------

43 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:26:47am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

That absolutely is moral relativism. you are saying that torture is morally permissible depending on circumstances. That is the definition of moral relativism.

44 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:26:56am

re: #40 charlz

Wikipedia answer:
In the election politics of the United States, an exploratory committee is an organization established to help determine whether a potential candidate should run for an elected office. They are most often cited in reference to United States Presidential hopefuls, prior to the primaries.

So Huckabee and Romney are like "old hat" already and don't need one, I'm supposing.

I wouldn't call either of them sane because I think they're all nuts but I guess they are saner than the batch last night. Well, Romney anyway.

45 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:27:21am

re: #42 ElCapitanAmerica

WOW. talk about going from 0 to Ludicrous speed in a nano-second. Figures the original was a mess up. These people will use anything, true or not, to justify their vile hate.

46 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:27:34am

re: #42 ElCapitanAmerica

Charles, check out the latest nontroversy;

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

---
No, President Obama Didn't Have A Flag Removed From Ground Zero

May 06, 2011 12:16 pm ET by Oliver Willis
ABC News' Jake Tapper published the following Tweet yesterday, showing cranes removing a U.S. flag from the Ground Zero site with the caption, "One minute to air and they decided to take the flag down from the live shot":

---

Reaction;

Doug Ross, in a post headlined, "WTF at WTC? Obama Has American Flag Removed From Ground Zero Site Moments Before Photo Shoot!":

This administration and, by extension, the Democrat Party are now so thoroughly divorced from the history, traditions and morals of America that we might as well admit the Marxist left has executed a successful coup d'état on this Republic.

Weasel Zippers posted the story with the following headline:
Wow: Team Obama Removes American Flag From Ground Zero Moments Before Live Shoot...

Fire Andrea Mitchell:
What an absolutely pitiful little manchild Obama is. As if turning his back on Debra Burlingame (sister of Charles Burlingame who piloted the plane that went down at the Pentagon during 9/11) wasn't pitiful enough. Now we learn that the Obama regime had an American flag removed from the live shot of his photo op at Ground Zero today.

Michelle Malkin:
Does flying the American flag at Ground Zero now constitute "spiking the football???"
---

Some of them already apologized. Look at Tapper's reaction to this on twitter;

---
jaketapper Jake Tapper
Bloggers who created a lie about the flag based on my innocuous tweet: please feel free to unfollow. don't want my facts to become your lies
9 minutes ago
---

Simply pathetic. Anything to bash Obama huh. Will they just shut their damn mouths about Marxism too? They've defined Marxism as anything they don't like and that's so intellectually dishonest.

47 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:28:21am

re: #45 dreggas

WOW. talk about going from 0 to Ludicrous speed in a nano-second. Figures the original was a mess up. These people will use anything, true or not, to justify their vile hate.

It even made it to drudge report! But he quickly removed it.

These guys make mistakes so fast, you won't catch them if you blink. Only noticed it because Tapper was pissed in twitter post (like 15 mins ago).

48 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:29:01am

Here's drudge with it in a "read link"

[Link: www.drudgereportarchives.com...]
REPORT: Team Obama takes down US flag before Ground Zero event...

49 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:29:17am

re: #23 lostlakehiker

Stop watching reruns of 24, the terrorists do not gasp out the secret code to disarm the nuke with their dieing breath. Jack Bauer does not really exist.

Besides which how likely is the scenario you envision?
1. We know the exact nature of threat (a nuke/bioweapon) and so we can feel justified to torture someone to prevent it.

2. We absolutely know that the person we have in custody actually has the knowledge we need to stop this threat.

3. After having successfully set up a really massive strike against the U.S. that is going to happen without any further aid from this person he will now willingly give it all up rather than become a martyr?

4. Why not just lie and buy some time for the plan to be completed. If you tell the torturers something half-way believable the torture will stop while they check it, the nuke will go off, and then you can go to gitmo or federal prison.

5. Etc, etc, etc...

This whole "Torture is OK if we really, really need critical information right now" thing is nothing but a giant fallacious strawman. Name me one time in the recorded history of modern warfare where this has actually happened.

50 Stanghazi  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:29:27am

re: #42 ElCapitanAmerica

Charles, check out the latest nontroversy;

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

---
No, President Obama Didn't Have A Flag Removed From Ground Zero

May 06, 2011 12:16 pm ET by Oliver Willis
ABC News' Jake Tapper published the following Tweet yesterday, showing cranes removing a U.S. flag from the Ground Zero site with the caption, "One minute to air and they decided to take the flag down from the live shot":

---

Reaction;

Doug Ross, in a post headlined, "WTF at WTC? Obama Has American Flag Removed From Ground Zero Site Moments Before Photo Shoot!":

This administration and, by extension, the Democrat Party are now so thoroughly divorced from the history, traditions and morals of America that we might as well admit the Marxist left has executed a successful coup d'état on this Republic.

Weasel Zippers posted the story with the following headline:
Wow: Team Obama Removes American Flag From Ground Zero Moments Before Live Shoot...

Fire Andrea Mitchell:
What an absolutely pitiful little manchild Obama is. As if turning his back on Debra Burlingame (sister of Charles Burlingame who piloted the plane that went down at the Pentagon during 9/11) wasn't pitiful enough. Now we learn that the Obama regime had an American flag removed from the live shot of his photo op at Ground Zero today.

Michelle Malkin:
Does flying the American flag at Ground Zero now constitute "spiking the football???"
---

Some of them already apologized. Look at Tapper's reaction to this on twitter;

---
jaketapper Jake Tapper
Bloggers who created a lie about the flag based on my innocuous tweet: please feel free to unfollow. don't want my facts to become your lies
9 minutes ago
---

Wow, I missed Tapper's response.

Classic, he should do a story on it.

51 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:30:00am

Anyone else notice that Ian Mckellen was born to play luap nor?

52 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:30:22am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

I gave up. The anti-waterboarding folks have such an emotional investment in their position that the conversation degrades pretty quickly.

Killgore, I've been nothing but straightforward in all my arguments about torture with you. I've argued solely from the point of view of pragmatism. And yet, somehow, you continue to claim that it's a huge emotional investment on my part.

I don't get it. I don't support torture first and foremost because i believe it's less effective than anything else-- partially because you can't know when someone is telling the truth, so you can't know when to stop torturing them. Which is the problem of LostLakeHiker's example; for torture to be effective you have to know when to stop, because if you continue when the person is telling the truth, they'll change the story. So you have to know the information already.

That argument alone should be sufficient. And it is entire unemotional.

So what gives with claiming the emotional investment part?

53 justaminute  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:30:30am

re: #41 Killgore Trout

I gave up. The anti-waterboarding folks have such an emotional investment in their position that the conversation degrades pretty quickly.

Can you have a conversation on this subject and have no emotional response to it? Waterboarding is torture, we prosecuted people for it. It does not work.

54 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:30:32am

re: #32 charlz
I think Romney will have more success in the North east than he will any where else.
I think for him to make it in the Midwest he will have to bring on some more pro creationism/anti abortion/anti gay crazy talk. And if he wants to make it in the south he will need to use all those plus blow on the pro-confederacy dog whistle.
And in either case he will still have an obstacle to overcome with his Mormonism among the extremist Christians.

55 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:30:44am

re: #42 ElCapitanAmerica

Who knows where that photo came from but the flag was hanging when he was at the memorial.


To their credit, both Malkin and Ross have acknowledged that they got the story wrong, though Malkin erased her erroneous post rather than add a correction to the initial, inflammatory post, while Ross claimed "perhaps Tapper just confused all of us" and added, "I'm sticking by my "Marxist coup d'état" comment."

Malkin thinks quick on her feet like the good totalitarian she is.

56 Neutral President  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:30:52am

re: #17 Fozzie Bear

Seriously. The moral relativism of the right today is pretty striking when you justapose it against the right's constant diatribes about the moral decay of the left.

How's this for a non-relative moral argument: Torture is wrong. In all cases. Period. End of fucking discussion.

You are always going to run into relativism on the subject because, even here, it's not clearly defined to some what is and is not torture and you will get people who will argue until they are blue in the face that something you think is torture is in fact not so or vice-versa, for a variety of reasons/excuses.

The fact that Method X which may or may not be torture actually revealed workable intelligence once or twice doesn't help with zero-tolerance arguments in the post-MAD nuclear age either.

It's been an unstoppable force vs immovable object style argument here ever since the mass exodus of the crazy-righties to the Village of the Banned (who were mostly OK with no holds barred when it comes to 'enhanced interrogation techniques', much to Charles' chagrin) and the influx of moderates, centrists, and lefties.

58 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:32:18am

re: #55 marjoriemoon

Who knows where that photo came from but the flag was hanging when he was at the memorial..

Tapper took the pic. He was just complaining because it was his live shot for the evening news. He comments on little things like that, he wasn't commenting on a controversial news story.

But apparently these guys can't read things in context.

59 wrenchwench  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:32:57am

re: #36 Alouette

It takes one to know one.

For the first time, I regard that phrase as a cogent remark.

60 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:34:32am

re: #57 Alouette

London cops prevent Islamist Extremists and EDL hooligans from beating the crap out of each other.

I've seen this going around the right wing blogs, of course. They simply don't mention the EDL, and they're all saying there were "hundreds" of Islamists.

From the pictures at Daylife, it looks more like a couple dozen.

61 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:34:44am

re: #51 aagcobb

Anyone else notice that Ian Mckellen was born to play luap nor?

Haha oh man, he does look like him. I was real surprised to hear that Ed Harris is playing John McCain in the HBO adaption of Game Change.

62 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:34:48am

re: #58 ElCapitanAmerica

BTW, here's the same scene today. Damnit. No flag in my shot. Damned commies took it down.

63 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:35:36am

re: #53 justaminute

Can you have a conversation on this subject and have no emotional response to it? Waterboarding is torture, we prosecuted people for it. It does not work.

Well, you end up with stuff like this....
John Yoo: Obama Afraid To Capture Bin Laden (VIDEO)
They invite him on the show and then berate and insult him. It's the kind of thing that should be left to Fox.
I do disagree with him in some respects. I think we're in a different phase in the war on terror and killing/assassinating leaders is more expedient at this point. I have no serious issues with Obama's tactics. In fact I like them quite a lot.

64 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:38:20am

re: #63 Killgore Trout

Well, you end up with stuff like this...
John Yoo: Obama Afraid To Capture Bin Laden (VIDEO)
They invite him on the show and then berate and insult him. It's the kind of thing that should be left to Fox.
I do disagree with him in some respects. I think we're in a different phase in the war on terror and killing/assassinating leaders is more expedient at this point. I have no serious issues with Obama's tactics. In fact I like them quite a lot.

I used to always give Yoo the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore. That clown has jumped the shark and deserves all of the grief that's directed at him. What a tool.

65 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:38:27am

re: #61 HappyWarrior

Of course, he'd have to learn how to replicate that bizarre accent luap nor has.

66 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:38:40am

re: #64 Gus 802

I used to always give you the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore. That clown has jumped the shark and deserves all of the grief that's directed at him. What a tool.

Oh crap. I meant "Yoo" no "you."

67 justaminute  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:39:00am

I think the number one reason we didn't see OBL taken into captivity was the torture issue. He video taped his confession to the crime. I'm glad it's over.

68 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:39:42am

English Defence League member:

Image: x910.jpg

69 Lidane  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:39:57am

re: #54 Cankles McCellulite

If you want to know how Romney will do in the election, just look at his results from four years ago:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Now add four years of bugfuck crazy from the Teabaggers and birthers, the fact that Romneycare is basically the same as Obamacare, and the fact that Romney's a Mormon to the mix.

I don't see him doing any better this time around, to be honest.

70 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:40:02am

re: #64 Gus 802

I used to always give you Yoo the benefit of the doubt. Not anymore. That clown has jumped the shark and deserves all of the grief that's directed at him. What a tool.

PIMF!

And!

Oh crap. I meant "Yoo" no not "you."

71 Targetpractice  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:41:00am

Is this the GOP's strategy? Run nutbars next to fruitloops, then talk about how "moderate" they are in comparison to each other?

72 Interesting Times  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:41:30am

re: #70 Gus 802

PIMF!

Read this and feel better ;)

73 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:42:05am

re: #68 Charles

English Defence League member:

Image: x910.jpg

Replace the English memorabilia with American memorabilia, and you have the image of a teabagger.

74 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:42:28am

re: #68 Charles

English Defence League member:

Image: x910.jpg

Charles. Can you do me a favor and change "you" to "Yoo" in number 64. Makes it look like I'm talking about KT. Thanks.

75 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:42:33am

re: #73 Fozzie Bear

And perhaps a tricorner hat. You gotta have the tricorner hat.

76 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:42:46am

re: #68 Charles

English Defence League member:

Image: x910.jpg

Lovely friends Ms. Geller has.

77 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:43:30am

re: #74 Gus 802

Charles. Can you do me a favor and change "you" to "Yoo" in number 64. Makes it look like I'm talking about KT. Thanks.

HAHAHAHAHA

I saw that post, and thought, "wow, he's getting personal here". Your corrections are clear.

78 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:43:36am

re: #60 Charles

I've seen this going around the right wing blogs, of course. They simply don't mention the EDL, and they're all saying there were "hundreds" of Islamists.

From the pictures at Daylife, it looks more like a couple dozen.

Looks like they are using the same "Islam will Dominate the World" signs from previous demonstrations.

There are no wide shots so it's hard to tell how many of each side there are. My guess is equivalent numbers of EDL and Muslim protestors, with an equal amount of police officers separating them.

79 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:44:03am

re: #77 Fozzie Bear

HAHAHAHAHA

I saw that post, and thought, "wow, he's getting personal here". Your corrections are clear.

I deserve a speeding ticket for that. ;)

80 Targetpractice  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:44:46am

re: #79 Gus 802

I deserve a speeding ticket for that. ;)

Sir, do you realize you were weaving?

/

81 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:45:01am

Fixed. Thanks Charles. :)

82 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:45:24am

re: #75 Fozzie Bear

And perhaps a tricorner hat. You gotta have the tricorner hat.

Do you get those by having square hats and cutting corners?

;)

83 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:47:07am

re: #74 Gus 802

Charles. Can you do me a favor and change "you" to "Yoo" in number 64. Makes it look like I'm talking about KT. Thanks.

No worries. I'm old and scaly, and have taken much harder bumps than that.

84 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:47:14am

re: #69 Lidane

The tough question for me is who is really, seriously, going to win the GOP nomination? The only remotely credible candidate on the stage last night was T-Paw. Trump and Palin aren't going to run. Huckabee looks like he would have a good shot at the nomination, but he hasn't decided to run yet. Gingrich can't win. Huntsman worked for the Obama administration. Bachmann might be too crazy for even the GOP to nominate. That seems to leave only Romney because of his $$ and name recognition, T-Paw, and Daniels if he runs.

85 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:47:26am

re: #65 aagcobb

Of course, he'd have to learn how to replicate that bizarre accent luap nor has.

Isn't McKellen classically trained? I am sure he could do it. I've always been impressed by British actors ability to mimic Americans. I saw Recount and two Brits- John Hurt and Tom Wilkinson played Warren Christopher and James Baker convincingly. It's too bad that most American actors can't do Brits like they can us. Has anyone else ever noticed that? You see British/Irish actors able to play Americans but not really vice versa.

86 Targetpractice  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:47:39am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

No worries. I'm old and scaly, and have taken much harder bumps than that.

Think you might want to have a doctor look at that.

/

87 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:48:16am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

No worries. I'm old and scaly, and have taken much harder bumps than that.

Now I'm wondering if my brain is connected to my fingers.

//

88 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:48:32am

re: #78 Alouette

Looks like they are using the same "Islam will Dominate the World" signs from previous demonstrations.

There are no wide shots so it's hard to tell how many of each side there are. My guess is equivalent numbers of EDL and Muslim protestors, with an equal amount of police officers separating them.

Here's the group of Islamists surrounded by police... definitely not "hundreds" of them.

Image: 910x.jpg

89 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:49:06am

re: #42 ElCapitanAmerica

How pathetic. I love Jake Tapper's last Tweet.

90 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:49:39am

re: #85 HappyWarrior

Kevin Costner's attempt was atrocious in Robin Hood.

91 jaunte  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:50:23am

Tighly packed Islamists vs. tightly wound EDL.

92 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:53:17am

re: #88 Charles

Here's the group of Islamists surrounded by police... definitely not "hundreds" of them.

Image: 910x.jpg

Looks like a couple dozen from that angle. Not exactly a horde of Islamists. I'm actually impressed that this is all the Islamist crazies that London could muster for a demonstration.

Call me crazy, but that picture is encouraging.

93 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:54:07am

re: #90 aagcobb

Kevin Costner's attempt was atrocious in Robin Hood.

Aren't even his American ones bad too though heh? Just busting on him, my problem with Costner's accents is that he exaggerates the accent i.e. his attempt at a Louisiana one in JFK or Boston in Thirteen Days.

94 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:54:56am

re: #88 Charles

Looks like about a hundred+

Image: 610x.jpg

95 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:54:56am

re: #91 jaunte

Tighly packed Islamists vs. tightly wound EDL.

So where are all the sane people protests? Or don't sane people protest...

96 Lidane  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:55:43am

re: #84 aagcobb

Honestly, I think that's why the GOP should just nominate a full-bore wingnut and teabagger/birther type this time around so the base can't complain about the candidate being "too liberal" when they get curbstomped by Obama.

The GOP seriously needs a housecleaning and the fastest way to do that is through a Mondale-style national humiliation. Nominating a wingnut/teabgger or birther type and losing is just what the Republicans need to start marginalizing the nutjobs and start bringing the adults back into the party.

97 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:55:52am

We Shall Overcomb

98 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:56:06am

re: #95 marjoriemoon

So where are all the sane people protests? Or don't sane people protest...

I think all the sane people were at the pub getting a pint of Newcastle. At least, that's what I'd be doing on a Friday afternoon in London.

99 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:56:11am

I love the anoles here in Florida. Very entertaining wildlife. Unfortunately for the ones that keep sneaking onto my screened-in porch, my cat agrees. I have to find the hole they are using to get in and seal it so I can stop the flow of terrorized "gifts" being placed in my lap. I'm amazed that my cat manages to catch them without causing them any obvious harm.

100 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:57:07am

I'm still scratching my head about that. Retweet this if you're on Twitter:

@jaketapper Jake Tapper
Bloggers who created a lie about the flag based on my innocuous tweet: please feel free to unfollow. don't want my facts to become your lies

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:58:22am

re: #57 Alouette

London cops prevent Islamist Extremists and EDL hooligans from beating the crap out of each other.

There's days when being a London cop just isn't worth it.

102 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 6, 2011 11:58:49am

re: #94 ElCapitanAmerica

Looks like about a hundred+

Image: 610x.jpg

Can't tell how far back the group of Islamists goes, though. Here's a larger image:

Image: 910x.jpg

It looks like about 10 rows to me, with an average of 5 or 6 in each row. Still less than a hundred, I think.

103 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:00:03pm

re: #96 Lidane

But, if they nominate someone sane, they might actually be able to win in '12. If unemployment is still high (and it just bumped back up to 9%) and gas is $5 a gallon, Obama's vulnerable to a GOP nominee who can reassure the voters he's a grownup.

104 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:00:08pm

The "Islam will dominate the world" signs aren't exactly helping their cause. Morons.

105 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:01:20pm

re: #104 Fozzie Bear

What I don't get is these supposed observant Muslims who aren't, you know, following any of the clothing-and-hairstyle rules of Muslims.

106 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:01:53pm

re: #103 aagcobb

But, if they nominate someone sane, they might actually be able to win in '12. If unemployment is still high (and it just bumped back up to 9%) and gas is $5 a gallon, Obama's vulnerable to a GOP nominee who can reassure the voters he's a grownup.

If for whatever reason gas prices get significantly higher, and this causes a spike in unemployment, even the crazy ones have a chance. I wouldn't be so sure that most of the country is capable of recognizing a grownup.

107 Interesting Times  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:03:00pm

re: #102 Charles

Can't tell how far back the group of Islamists goes, though. Here's a larger image:

Image: 910x.jpg

It looks like about 10 rows to me, with an average of 5 or 6 in each row. Still less than a hundred, I think.

No. According to our independent crowd control experts, it numbers well over two million.

-- M. Malkin and G. Beck

108 allegro  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:03:06pm

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

I love the anoles here in Florida. Very entertaining wildlife. Unfortunately for the ones that keep sneaking onto my screened-in porch, my cat agrees. I have to find the hole they are using to get in and seal it so I can stop the flow of terrorized "gifts" being placed in my lap. I'm amazed that my cat manages to catch them without causing them any obvious harm.

Upding for knowing they are anoles and not salimanders, as most people call them, at least here in Texas.

109 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:03:35pm

re: #100 Gus 802

I'm still scratching my head about that. Retweet this if you're on Twitter:

@jaketapper Jake Tapper
Bloggers who created a lie about the flag based on my innocuous tweet: please feel free to unfollow. don't want my facts to become your lies

Screw Jake Tapper...the oversensitive twit. I followed his sorry ass, and then tweeted this:

@jaketapper you're still in the press conference. Pay attention, you idiot. Turn off your blackberry. 9:08 AM Sep 10th, 2010 via web

And the sonofabitch blocked me.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:04:45pm

re: #65 aagcobb

Of course, he'd have to learn how to replicate that bizarre accent luap nor has.

McKellen has a good ear.

111 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:05:23pm

re: #68 Charles

English Defence League member:

Image: x910.jpg

I feel defended already.

112 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:05:48pm

re: #104 Fozzie Bear

The "Islam will dominate the world" signs aren't exactly helping their cause. Morons.

These are the same wackos who always turn out to demonstrate in London. A very small group of loud Islamists led by Anjem Choudray.

113 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:06:03pm

I just got back from seeing Thor. Loved it, but this 3D thing really needs to go.

114 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:06:08pm

re: #106 Fozzie Bear

I stay sane by reassuring myself that the sensible center exists and will not vote an obvious nutjob into the White House.

115 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:06:09pm

From Michelles apology, comments:

---------------------------------
On May 6th, 2011 at 11:11 am, Peter Hughes said:

No apologies necessary, Michelle. With this bunch of idiots in charge of our country, anything could be construed as actual until they do an about-face.

Thank you for keeping us in the loop.

Regards,
Peter H.
---------------------------------
On May 6th, 2011 at 11:29 am, JamesLee said:

Things like this are sort of like stories from The Onion; it’s funny, because it seems believable. Keep up the great work!
---------------------------------
On May 6th, 2011 at 12:00 pm, Jinxed said:

On May 6th, 2011 at 11:55 am, happyscrapper said:
What is scary is that people would believe such a thing of the President of the United States. Sad and scary. Thanks for the correction, MM! We love you.

Especially in that we have a president of whom we can believe it.

Though I’m now trying to figure out why they would remove it at any time, unless it’s to finally start construction.

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:06:32pm

re: #78 Alouette

Looks like they are using the same "Islam will Dominate the World" signs from previous demonstrations.

There are no wide shots so it's hard to tell how many of each side there are. My guess is equivalent numbers of EDL and Muslim protestors, with an equal amount of police officers separating them.

Its...a...beautiful day in the neighborhood...

117 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:07:02pm

re: #115 ElCapitanAmerica

It's good that she apologized.

118 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:07:38pm

re: #108 allegro

Upding for knowing they are anoles and not salimanders, as most people call them, at least here in Texas.

I had one as a pet when I was a kid. These look just like him, only they are all brown rather than either green or brown. The locals tell me this is because the native green anoles have been displaced by the more aggressive brown cuban anoles, and that years ago, they were all green. So now I find myself lamenting the plight of the gentler green anoles.

I need to find a job soon, so I can worry about keeping it, rather than fretting about invasive species, lol.

119 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:08:31pm

re: #117 Gus 802

It's good that she apologized.

I'll give her that, but still. Really says a lot that she would come to that conclusion by just looking at that tweet and picture.

120 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:08:42pm

re: #112 Charles

These are the same wackos who always turn out to demonstrate in London. A very small group of loud Islamists led by Anjem Choudray.

I noticed that the font and mounting is the same on all the signs. This reeks of a small central organized group driving this.

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:10:20pm

re: #85 HappyWarrior

Isn't McKellen classically trained? I am sure he could do it. I've always been impressed by British actors ability to mimic Americans. I saw Recount and two Brits- John Hurt and Tom Wilkinson played Warren Christopher and James Baker convincingly. It's too bad that most American actors can't do Brits like they can us. Has anyone else ever noticed that? You see British/Irish actors able to play Americans but not really vice versa.

The guy who plays Jack Harkness in Torchwood and Dr. Who isn't actually American. Apparently he did the whole audition in an American accent, though, and they didn't realize until after they'd hired him that it's not his usual one.

I'd also like to mention Hugh Laurie in this context.

However, going the other way, Renee Zellweger doesn't do a bad Brit.

122 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:10:37pm

[Link: www.express.co.uk...]

The former UK leader of the outlawed al-Muhajiroun and member of the “poppy-burning” Muslims Against Crusades extremist group called on the US to return bin Laden’s body to relatives.

They do know he's at the bottom of the ocean right? Perhaps they can contract James Cameron?

123 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:10:39pm

re: #119 ElCapitanAmerica

I'll give her that, but still. Really says a lot that she would come to that conclusion by just looking at that tweet and picture.

They're all on a hair trigger.

124 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:11:34pm

re: #123 Gus 802

They're all on a hair trigger.

They've been like that since November 4th, 2008.

125 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:12:05pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

I was going to mention Mike Meyers, but of course he is Canadian.

126 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:12:08pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

I was astounded to see Hugh Laurie being interviewed a year ago or so, and that his is in fact very British. His American accent on House is impeccable. I was impressed that not only was I fooled, but completely so. I never detected anything even a little bit off about the accent.

127 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:12:13pm

re: #120 Fozzie Bear

I noticed that the font and mounting is the same on all the signs. This reeks of a small central organized group driving this.

Maybe the same shop that prints all the ISM/ANSWER/WORLDCANTWAIT signs.

128 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:12:49pm

re: #127 Alouette

Maybe the same shop that prints all the ISM/ANSWER/WORLDCANTWAIT signs.

I think the font is called "angry extremist".

129 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:13:03pm

re: #109 darthstar

Screw Jake Tapper...the oversensitive twit. I followed his sorry ass, and then tweeted this:

@jaketapper you're still in the press conference. Pay attention, you idiot. Turn off your blackberry. 9:08 AM Sep 10th, 2010 via web

And the sonofabitch blocked me.

That's pretty funny. I was just noticing yesterday and the day before about people and their devices. I was at this bar and these people have their gadgets out checking, reading, and making or getting calls when they should be socializing. Reminds me of going over to see a friend that you haven't seen in ages and suddenly he's on the phone talking with someone he always talks to on a daily basis. It's rude. People really need to learn how to balance their time on those things.

130 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:14:32pm

re: #128 Fozzie Bear

You picked a bad time to move to Florida...

Floridians are going to have to start pulling up their pants and stop having sex with animals soon.

Ha!

131 makeitstopghazi  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:15:07pm

Poppy Montgomery on 'Without A Trace' (Australian) does a pretty good American accent, although if you listen closely enough, every once in a while a bit of her native accent peeks through.

132 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:15:57pm

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

I love the anoles here in Florida. Very entertaining wildlife. Unfortunately for the ones that keep sneaking onto my screened-in porch, my cat agrees. I have to find the hole they are using to get in and seal it so I can stop the flow of terrorized "gifts" being placed in my lap. I'm amazed that my cat manages to catch them without causing them any obvious harm.

The ones in this condo (I'm still at my former parents place doing some remodeling to prep it for sale) seem to come in through the bath vent fan, my cat loves the challenge of catching them too. Unfortunately my cat is not nearly as humane as yours and I usually only see them as twisted mangled wrecks. :(

Once he is done with them he does proudly bring them to me also, I tell him thanks and quietly dispose of the remains. (Still it isn't nearly as bad as the hugh tomcat "Henry" I had as a child (bastard caused me nine stitches in my right arm once), he regularly left decapitated and mostly skinned squirrels on the front welcome mat at our house).

Eww...

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:16:12pm

re: #95 marjoriemoon

So where are all the sane people protests? Or don't sane people protest...

I think sane people are feeling OK about Bin Laden, or if they aren't, they'll write a letter to the Guardian about how they feel.

134 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:16:19pm

re: #117 Gus 802

It's good that she apologized.

I won't give that woman an inch. She'd have to apologize for a hellofa lot more than that for me to budge. When she burns that disgusting book she wrote, I'll rethink it.

135 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:16:22pm

re: #115 ElCapitanAmerica

From Michelles apology, comments:

---
On May 6th, 2011 at 11:11 am, Peter Hughes said:

No apologies necessary, Michelle. With this bunch of idiots in charge of our country, anything could be construed as actual until they do an about-face.

Thank you for keeping us in the loop.

Regards,
Peter H.
---
On May 6th, 2011 at 11:29 am, JamesLee said:

Things like this are sort of like stories from The Onion; it’s funny, because it seems believable. Keep up the great work!
---
On May 6th, 2011 at 12:00 pm, Jinxed said:

On May 6th, 2011 at 11:55 am, happyscrapper said:
What is scary is that people would believe such a thing of the President of the United States. Sad and scary. Thanks for the correction, MM! We love you.

Especially in that we have a president of whom we can believe it.

Though I’m now trying to figure out why they would remove it at any time, unless it’s to finally start construction.

In otherwords assume Obama can do no right because we hate him wah wah.

136 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:17:06pm

re: #129 Gus 802

I just got my first smartphone, an HTC Thunderbolt. For about a week, I was "that guy". It's really hard to put it down at first. As I just moved to a new town, I must say, the navigation app, combined with the voice recognition search feature is a lifesaver. Saying "navigate to CVS" into the phone is a hell of a lot easier than trying to find the nearest one on google maps.

You're definitely right that there is a bit too much of a draw there for some people. On the other hand, this thing has made my life a LOT easier.

137 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:17:45pm

re: #130 darthstar

You picked a bad time to move to Florida...

Ha!

Ah crap. Now I have to move back to PA. Way to crush my dreams, Florida! /

138 Gus  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:18:06pm

I better get back to work. Later again.

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:18:09pm

re: #104 Fozzie Bear

The "Islam will dominate the world" signs aren't exactly helping their cause. Morons.

That depends on what you consider their cause to be.

140 wrenchwench  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:18:29pm

re: #115 ElCapitanAmerica

From Michelles apology, comments:

---
On May 6th, 2011 at 11:11 am, Peter Hughes said:

No apologies necessary, Michelle. With this bunch of idiots in charge of our country, anything could be construed as actual until they do an about-face.

Thank you for keeping us in the loop.

Regards,
Peter H.

Fake but accurate!

141 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:18:44pm

re: #131 makeitstop

Poppy Montgomery on 'Without A Trace' (Australian) does a pretty good American accent, although if you listen closely enough, every once in a while a bit of her native accent peeks through.

Jason Marsters, American, had a British accent for years as Spike.

142 iossarian  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:19:05pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

The guy who plays Jack Harkness in Torchwood and Dr. Who isn't actually American. Apparently he did the whole audition in an American accent, though, and they didn't realize until after they'd hired him that it's not his usual one.

I'd also like to mention Hugh Laurie in this context.

However, going the other way, Renee Zellweger doesn't do a bad Brit.

I've always been impressed by Dick Van Dyke's cockney accent.

I recently heard that his voice coach for that part was an Irishman, and they spent the time they were meant to be practicing in the pub.

143 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:19:06pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

The guy who plays Jack Harkness in Torchwood and Dr. Who isn't actually American. Apparently he did the whole audition in an American accent, though, and they didn't realize until after they'd hired him that it's not his usual one.

I'd also like to mention Hugh Laurie in this context.

However, going the other way, Renee Zellweger doesn't do a bad Brit.

Do you remember Christian Bale's legendary outburst on the set of Terminator? What made that sound amazing was he stayed in an American accent the whole time heh. Haven't seen Renee's British accent. I can't do one myself. I can do an Irish one but I think it's heavily exagerrated even though that's not my attempt. My Indian one definitely is since it's based on characters like Apu.

144 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:19:10pm

Cats of War

145 darthstar  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:19:39pm

re: #137 Fozzie Bear

Ah crap. Now I have to move back to PA. Way to crush my dreams, Florida! /

At least you don't have to worry about Santorum moving to Florida.

146 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:19:40pm

re: #105 Obdicut

What I don't get is these supposed observant Muslims who aren't, you know, following any of the clothing-and-hairstyle rules of Muslims.

Dunno, this woman seems to be following just about every rule there ever could be.

I imagine Mohammed peering at her and asking one of his wives, "Is it me, or does that lady seem a little overdressed?"

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:20:42pm

re: #112 Charles

These are the same wackos who always turn out to demonstrate in London. A very small group of loud Islamists led by Anjem Choudray.

I may have used to work near his office...him or someone similar. There was a ton of flyering and stickers on various extremist Islamist themes around the neighborhood.

148 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:21:36pm

re: #136 Fozzie Bear

I just got my first smartphone, an HTC Thunderbolt. For about a week, I was "that guy". It's really hard to put it down at first. As I just moved to a new town, I must say, the navigation app, combined with the voice recognition search feature is a lifesaver. Saying "navigate to CVS" into the phone is a hell of a lot easier than trying to find the nearest one on google maps.

You're definitely right that there is a bit too much of a draw there for some people. On the other hand, this thing has made my life a LOT easier.

Are you in a 4G market?

149 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:21:47pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

She looks hot.

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:22:16pm

re: #126 Fozzie Bear

I was astounded to see Hugh Laurie being interviewed a year ago or so, and that his is in fact very British. His American accent on House is impeccable. I was impressed that not only was I fooled, but completely so. I never detected anything even a little bit off about the accent.

It's worse. I watched him play British roles in comedies for years, and didn't even RECOGNIZE him when he showed up without period costume and with a British accent. Took me months.

151 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:23:12pm

re: #148 JasonA

Are you in a 4G market?

Yep. The Orlando area seems to be entirely 4g. Or at least I haven't yet found a place around here where it doesn't work. And wow, it's fast. Faster than my home computer's connection. I've gotten up to about 15 Mbps download speed peak here. My home connection tops out at about 3.

152 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:23:19pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno, this woman seems to be following just about every rule there ever could be.

I imagine Mohammed peering at her and asking one of his wives, "Is it me, or does that lady seem a little overdressed?"

How do we know that is a woman?

153 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:23:21pm

re: #130 darthstar

You picked a bad time to move to Florida...

Ha!

Just you watch. Governor Skeletor will be caught with a sheep. That's usually how these things end up for those who complain too much.

I've had my eyes closed and I'm holding my breath for the next 6 years. It's too painful to read about this bottom feeder.

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:24:59pm

re: #152 Alouette

How do we know that is a woman?

Well, we don't, but if it's a gentleman, he's definitely got odd taste in drag.

155 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:25:46pm

re: #102 Charles

Can't tell how far back the group of Islamists goes, though. Here's a larger image:

Image: 910x.jpg

It looks like about 10 rows to me, with an average of 5 or 6 in each row. Still less than a hundred, I think.

Uuuggghhh...*grimace, headdesk*

156 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:26:18pm

re: #153 marjoriemoon

Just you watch. Governor Skeletor will be caught with a sheep. That's usually how these things end up for those who complain too much.

I've had my eyes closed and I'm holding my breath for the next 6 years. It's too painful to read about this bottom feeder.

Yeah he isn't too popular around here. Even the most conservative republicans I have met here sneer when they say his name. I don't know how he managed to garner so much hate in so little time, but wow. My wife's dad, the most conservative person I know (who isn't completely nuts) HATES Scott, and every time his name comes up, he goes off on a rant about how much he wishes he could go back in time and change his vote.

157 HappyWarrior  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:26:20pm

[Link: www.voanews.com...]
This is a cool story.

158 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:27:19pm

re: #151 Fozzie Bear

Yep. The Orlando area seems to be entirely 4g. Or at least I haven't yet found a place around here where it doesn't work. And wow, it's fast. Faster than my home computer's connection. I've gotten up to about 15 Mbps download speed peak here. My home connection tops out at about 3.

Awesome. Now you just need to get yourself an extended battery so it'll last through the day. ;)

Oh, and I've had a smartphone for over seven months now and I'm still that guy...

159 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:27:22pm

re: #154 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, we don't, but if it's a gentleman, he's definitely got odd taste in drag.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

May 2005
Burqa trap set for terror suspect
Pakistani agents wearing burqas seized al-Qaeda suspect Abu Faraj al-Libbi by ambushing his motorbike in a rural town, police told the BBC.

Ahh burka blue. I may be your sister or your auntie too!

160 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:28:13pm

re: #156 Fozzie Bear

Yeah he isn't too popular around here. Even the most conservative republicans I have met here sneer when they say his name. I don't know how he managed to garner so much hate in so little time, but wow. My wife's dad, the most conservative person I know (who isn't completely nuts) HATES Scott, and every time his name comes up, he goes off on a rant about how much he wishes he could go back in time and change his vote.

He was despised from the minute he started running.

My tea party boss adores him. Has his Xmas picture on his desk.

I voted for Sink.

162 Fozzie Bear  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:32:51pm

re: #158 JasonA

Awesome. Now you just need to get yourself an extended battery so it'll last through the day. ;)

Oh, and I've had a smartphone for over seven months now and I'm still that guy...

I've found that the battery life isn't too bad if I only use it when I need to look something up (rather than just to pass time), and if I turn off extraneous services. For instance, if you leave skype loaded (it has a front-facing camera, and can use video with skype) it constantly polls the server and eats up battery. I got a charging dock for my car and at my computer, and I try to remember to dock it every time I am in either place.

If I don't use it except for calls, and to look up the odd thing here or there, the battery lasts all day, no problem. If I play angry birds for a couple of hours, however, it drinks up juice like... um... something that drinks a lot of juice. A toddler? I need to work on my metaphors.

163 Vicious Babushka  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:33:08pm

re: #159 marjoriemoon

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Ahh burka blue. I may be your sister or your auntie too!

Burka-wearing bank robberies.

164 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:33:38pm

re: #156 Fozzie Bear

Yeah he isn't too popular around here. Even the most conservative republicans I have met here sneer when they say his name. I don't know how he managed to garner so much hate in so little time, but wow. My wife's dad, the most conservative person I know (who isn't completely nuts) HATES Scott, and every time his name comes up, he goes off on a rant about how much he wishes he could go back in time and change his vote.

Scott should be behind bars for committing the largest Medicaid fraud in this nation's history. Instead he's governor. I'll never figure that out.

165 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:34:54pm

re: #161 CuriousLurker

Atheist Billboard in Fresno Vandalized After Only Three Days

They have a club? Do you were bikinis and play tennis?

166 iossarian  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:37:43pm

re: #165 marjoriemoon

They have a club? Do you were bikinis and play tennis?

I think it involves car keys or something.

I kid, I kid.

167 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:39:16pm

re: #166 iossarian

I think it involves car keys or something.

I kid, I kid.

I was thinking of Club Med. You were thinking of an anti-thief device?

168 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:39:28pm

re: #161 CuriousLurker

Atheist Billboard in Fresno Vandalized After Only Three Days

And on the Third Day...

169 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:39:51pm

re: #165 marjoriemoon

They have a club? Do you were bikinis and play tennis?

Heh. But they probably do have clubs, or at least I would think so. Like the Atheist Book Club or whatever.

170 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:39:56pm

David Frum is still full of shit, it's just less pungent hahaha

171 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:40:33pm

re: #169 CuriousLurker

Heh. But they probably do have clubs, or at least I would think so. Like the Atheist Book Club or whatever.

There ya go. Everyone needs a good Club or club :>

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:41:51pm

re: #161 CuriousLurker

hahah billboards!

Billboards are just the most american and barbaric of opinion devices, we have these wacky Christer billboards in WA as you drive up I-5


(I like the term "Christer" for crazies who are tribalist Christians who prosletyze in hamhanded ways, got that from Vidal)

173 Ericus58  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:42:11pm

Muslim Brotherhood urges review of Israel ties

[Link: www.ft.com...]

"“We should now raise our voice to ask for: an end to normalisation [with Israel] which has given our enemy stability; an end to [Egyptian] efforts to secure from infiltrators the borders of the Zionists; the abolition of all [joint] economic interests such as the Qualified Industrial Zones agreement and the export of Egyptian gas to Israel,” said Mohamed Badie, the Brotherhood’s leader."

Wonderful.....

174 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:43:12pm

re: #164 marjoriemoon

Scott should be behind bars for committing the largest Medicaid fraud in this nation's history. Instead he's governor. I'll never figure that out.

America!

Personally, I think much of Wall Street should be busted up and socialized, because it's ruined our economy, but that's just me

175 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:44:30pm

re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno, this woman seems to be following just about every rule there ever could be.

I imagine Mohammed peering at her and asking one of his wives, "Is it me, or does that lady seem a little overdressed?"

man, that's so covered up it probably qualifies...


ah I shouldn't say

176 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:45:06pm

re: #137 Fozzie Bear

Ah crap. Now I have to move back to PA. Way to crush my dreams, Florida! /

Sad...

Also passed by the House and Senate Wednesday is the so-called "droopy drawers bill" (SB 228), will will force students to hike up their pants while at school.

Students caught showing their underwear or butt crack could face suspensions and other punishments.

They actually had to pass a law to try to make this a school rule?
(LOL, in 1981 it was only a handful of black gang members trying their best to get away with being "out of uniform" while in Florida prisons (I was there). Now look at what's happened...sigh. :( )

177 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:46:40pm

re: #106 Fozzie Bear

If for whatever reason gas prices get significantly higher, and this causes a spike in unemployment, even the crazy ones have a chance. I wouldn't be so sure that most of the country is capable of recognizing a grownup.

Agreed

People in this country would vote a cow into office if they're angry enough

Because Americans have no concept of how an economy works, most Americans literally think the president has the powers of a king

178 windsagio  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:47:19pm

re: #172 WindUpBird

Aah the Uncle Sam Billboard!

Being nutty and evil for 20 years running!

179 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:48:26pm

re: #175 WindUpBird

man, that's so covered up it probably qualifies...

ah I shouldn't say

How do we know it's a woman?

180 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:48:44pm

re: #178 windsagio

Aah the Uncle Sam Billboard!

Being nutty and evil for 20 years running!

Christ you're fast

181 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:49:27pm

re: #179 Walter L. Newton

How do we know it's a woman?

hahaha you're gonna get me in trouble! ^___^

Full coverage outfits, let's just say there's a community for that, oh yeah

182 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:49:53pm

re: #172 WindUpBird

These were down the street from my place a couple of years ago. Gotta love the juxtaposition—I always wondered if the "Bishop" ever noticed saw it. LOL

When church is just not enough...

183 windsagio  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:50:29pm

re: #180 WindUpBird

Turns out

Right wing Uncle Sam Billboard

has some

Internet fame!

Plenty of ugly examples inside >> Altho I note this guy does'nt seem to get vandalized I think everybodys too busy laughing.

184 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:51:08pm

re: #165 marjoriemoon

They have a club? Do you were bikinis and play tennis?

Sure but volleyball is more popular, my Aunt goes to monthly Secularist Humanist dinner meetings and they often have potlucks and beach front get togethers. She keeps trying to get me involved, I guess she thinks I'll revert to being an atheist if I were only around the right people enough.

185 Kragar  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:51:18pm

Bin Laden raid intel yields leads on al Qaeda No. 2 al Zawahiri

186 wrenchwench  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:52:19pm
CountryLawyer

Karma: 0
Registered since: Mar 25, 2008 at 11:54 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 0

Odd nic for one so quiet.

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:53:30pm

re: #173 Ericus58

Muslim Brotherhood urges review of Israel ties

[Link: www.ft.com...]

"“We should now raise our voice to ask for: an end to normalisation [with Israel] which has given our enemy stability; an end to [Egyptian] efforts to secure from infiltrators the borders of the Zionists; the abolition of all [joint] economic interests such as the Qualified Industrial Zones agreement and the export of Egyptian gas to Israel,” said Mohamed Badie, the Brotherhood’s leader."

Wonderful...

Predictable. They're seeing how far they can push things.

188 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:53:46pm

OT:

Wanna track your iPhone? There's an app for that.

189 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:54:23pm

re: #182 CuriousLurker

ahahahahahah nice

Billboards are just such an ugly scourge, agh

190 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:54:37pm

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bin Laden raid intel yields leads on al Qaeda No. 2 al Zawahiri

Damn that's a lot of pr0n.

2.7 terabytes of computer data

191 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:56:03pm

re: #188 lawhawk

man, i'm probably going to get a Windows 7 phone, because it looks way simpler to use than iphone or android, wya more elegant (used to have a Zune and I loved the ultraminimalist interface, I'm considering buying a zune HD because I hate Itunes to death) and also because now I can buy Microsoft and be the contrary bastard, heeheehee

192 Targetpractice  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:56:52pm

re: #190 JasonA

Damn that's a lot of pr0n.

Lightweight.

//

193 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:57:08pm

re: #178 windsagio

Aah the Uncle Sam Billboard!

Being nutty and evil for 20 years running!

I had no idea Uncle Sam would sexual molest me in the library, but thank goodness I saw that billboard!

194 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:57:16pm

re: #188 lawhawk

OT:

Wanna track your iPhone? There's an app for that.

Wonder how many divorces this'll lead to.

"Honey, if you were in Chicago for a conference what was your iPhone doing in Las Vegas?"

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:57:16pm

re: #174 WindUpBird

America!

Personally, I think much of Wall Street should be busted up and socialized, because it's ruined our economy, but that's just me

My father has worked for many years with doctors. Asked about socialized medicine, he's fond of snarling, "I would not only socialize it, I would MILITARIZE it."

196 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:58:03pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

My father has worked for many years with doctors. Asked about socialized medicine, he's fond of snarling, "I would not only socialize it, I would MILITARIZE it."

Heh. Weaponized Health Care. I like it.

197 windsagio  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:58:55pm

re: #191 WindUpBird

last night in my cups I was ranting a little bit about how crazy/evil the iTunes store is >>

198 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:58:56pm

re: #184 ausador

Sure but volleyball is more popular, my Aunt goes to monthly Secularist Humanist dinner meetings and they often have potlucks and beach front get togethers. She keeps trying to get me involved, I guess she thinks I'll revert to being an atheist if I were only around the right people enough.

I'll have to ask people's denominations next time I go to the naked beach. There's no place to put your cross or your star!

199 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:59:13pm

lol

StephenAtHome Stephen Colbert
Barnes & Noble is rumored to be releasing a new Nook later this month. If their marketing team is smart, they'll call it the iPad 3.

200 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:59:25pm

Crazy Pam sponsored a protest of Imam Rauf.....

Youtube Video

At 1:17 a protester says Rauf should be assassinated like Bin Laden.

201 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:59:39pm

re: #197 windsagio

last night in my cups I was ranting a little bit about how crazy/evil the iTunes store is >>

You'll get no argument from me.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 12:59:53pm

re: #198 marjoriemoon

I'll have to ask people's denominations next time I go to the naked beach. There's no place to put your cross or your star!

Well, Christians can tattoo symbols on their fannies.

203 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:00:00pm

re: #191 WindUpBird

My first smartphone is the HTC Droid Incredible (3G via VZW). Liking it immensely although battery life is a drain/pain. I've got a separate mp3 player, so that isn't really an issue or concern. Generally like the photos it takes (some already posted on my blog for example) although it tends to be real contrasty. Great screen size/format.

I'd have to play with the Windoze and iOS phones to see whether they are functionally different for what I do/need.

Next phone will probably be a 4G at some point (although 4G isn't true 4G and everyone's fudging that so-called standard).

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:00:42pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam sponsored a protest of Imam Rauf...

[Video]At 1:17 a protester says Rauf should be assassinated like Bin Laden.

Oh, good Lord. What IS it with these people?

205 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:01:07pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

And you wonder why the NYPD has police cars stationed outside Park51 all the time?

There's your answer.

206 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:01:31pm

re: #203 lawhawk

Verizon's LTE is the best around right now, no doubt about that. Except that one day last week where the whole network went down.

207 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:01:49pm

re: #190 JasonA

well,re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

My father has worked for many years with doctors. Asked about socialized medicine, he's fond of snarling, "I would not only socialize it, I would MILITARIZE it."

FUCK YEAH!

Amazing how the loons who freak out about socialized health care, the military ones sure ain't turning down the good dental and the VA!

Sociaized sucks except when they get it, then its great, oh people, just so small

I have a friend going into her doctorate program to become a nurse prac, and she's gonna go STRAIGHT to doing community medicine for low income residents here, she's more pissed off at our hideous wreck of a health care system than I am

208 What, me worry?  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:02:02pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Christians can tattoo symbols on their fannies.

I'm a terribly naughty Jew :p

209 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:02:30pm

re: #197 windsagio

last night in my cups I was ranting a little bit about how crazy/evil the iTunes store is >>

I'm serious about the Windows 7 phone, I seen the demo and the reviews of it, it looks SO much more elegant than the ipod


which is funny bcause that's apple's strength, is UI

210 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:02:48pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam sponsored a protest of Imam Rauf...

[Video]At 1:17 a protester says Rauf should be assassinated like Bin Laden.

I love listening to all these experts on Islam speak.

211 windsagio  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:02:54pm

re: #203 lawhawk

Yeah I have a HTC Android too; Love it except for the whole temptation to destroy/hijack conversations with it.

When I upgrade, might get a Windows tho', depends on how much brand loyalty I hold onto >>. Apple will never get my money.

212 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:03:16pm

re: #203 lawhawk

ideally I want a Windows 7 phone with a dedicated slideout keyboard, dunno if that's a thing I can get yet

213 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:03:28pm

re: #204 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, good Lord. What IS it with these people?

They're misinformed by idiots like Geller.

214 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:03:40pm

re: #212 WindUpBird

ideally I want a Windows 7 phone with a dedicated slideout keyboard, dunno if that's a thing I can get yet

LG Quantum. HTC Arrive.

215 makeitstopghazi  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:03:46pm

re: #191 WindUpBird

man, i'm probably going to get a Windows 7 phone, because it looks way simpler to use than iphone or android, wya more elegant (used to have a Zune and I loved the ultraminimalist interface, I'm considering buying a zune HD because I hate Itunes to death) and also because now I can buy Microsoft and be the contrary bastard, heeheehee

I have a 120GB Zune. I don't use it that much, but I do like it a lot. We belong to Zune Marketplace - my personal record is downloading 35 albums in one sitting.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:03:48pm

re: #210 JasonA

I love listening to all these experts on Islam speak.

are they like white guys claiming to be experts on black people

217 windsagio  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:04:16pm

re: #209 WindUpBird

Starting late has its advantages really.

OK I gotta go to work!

I'll see you (WUB) tonight.

And for the rest of you, Triumph in the glory that is me!

Youtube Video
218 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:04:26pm

This is the perfect example by which to explain the proper usage of "begging the question". The way the expression is usually used is instead of saying "invites the question". A begged question is one that contains within itself its own answer.

Class dismissed.

219 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:04:28pm

re: #214 JasonA

LG Quantum. HTC Arrive.

what carriers o_o

220 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:04:46pm

re: #217 windsagio

fuck yeha, Rock n Rule, best animation evar

221 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:04:52pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Crazy Pam sponsored a protest of Imam Rauf...

[Video]At 1:17 a protester says Rauf should be assassinated like Bin Laden.

Never gonna fool those geniuses with our taqiyya, no siree Bob, they've got us all pegged. *1001 eyerolls*

222 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:04:52pm

re: #219 WindUpBird

what carriers o_o

AT&T and Sprint, respectively.

223 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:04pm

re: #215 makeitstop

I have a 120GB Zune. I don't use it that much, but I do like it a lot. We belong to Zune Marketplace - my personal record is downloading 35 albums in one sitting.

ahahahaha yes

I had an ooold first gen zune and I had it stolen

but the HD seems to be going down in price and I may pick one up refurb, I love how it feels *__*

I had zune marketplace, but sadly, it really does not have the sort of music I listen to (underground/experimental rock and metal on indie labels like Southern Lord)

224 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:05pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

Never gonna fool those geniuses with our taqiyya, no siree Bob, they've got us all pegged. *1001 eyerolls*

1001 eyerolls because of 1001 arabian nights? Literary allusions! I love it!

225 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:13pm

re: #202 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Christians can tattoo symbols on their fannies.

Are you guys not supposed to get tattoos either?

226 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:24pm

re: #222 JasonA

AT&T and Sprint, respectively.

mmmmm Sprint, maybe

A-scared of AT@T :(

227 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:31pm

re: #223 WindUpBird

ahahahaha yes

I had an ooold first gen zune and I had it stolen

but the HD seems to be going down in price and I may pick one up refurb, I love how it feels *__*

I had zune marketplace, but sadly, it really does not have the sort of music I listen to (underground/experimental rock and metal on indie labels like Southern Lord)

IIRC Zune marketplace is being shut down?

228 lawhawk  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:44pm

re: #212 WindUpBird

Hmmm... that could come in handy for remote blogging, but that isn't a regular situation for me. Besides, when I'm AFK, I'm usually carrying around tons of camera gear. Last thing I want is still more tech gear to lug around.

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:48pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

Never gonna fool those geniuses with our taqiyya, no siree Bob, they've got us all pegged. *1001 eyerolls*

You're gonna wear out your optic nerves, you carry on like that.

230 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:06:56pm

re: #219 WindUpBird

what carriers o_o

And you know, I really would've pegged you for an Android guy. Incredibly cutomizable, open-source (Google gives it away, literally), tons of apps. Look into it.

231 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:07:00pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

Are you guys not supposed to get tattoos either?

That's sad

Tattoos are hot, if they're done well, and concieved well

232 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:07:11pm

re: #210 JasonA

I love listening to all these experts on Islam speak.

Me too. I learn all kinds of stuff I never knew after 20 years being Muslim. //

233 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:07:23pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

Never gonna fool those geniuses with our taqiyya, no siree Bob, they've got us all pegged. *1001 eyerolls*

Along with Rauf they are protesting Reza Aslan who appears frequently on John Stweard and Steven Colbert.

According to Reza Aslan, Muslims have decided, in their secret gatherings, to bring down democracy through art.
234 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:07:24pm

re: #225 CuriousLurker

Are you guys not supposed to get tattoos either?

Yup. No tattoos.

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:07:40pm

re: #227 imp_62

IIRC Zune marketplace is being shut down?

I dunno, don't care

I just want an MP3 player that doesn't drive me crazy


My ipod drives me crazy :( I like it, but it's just full of asshole Apple decisions and itunes tethering and UGH

236 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:08:01pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

my favorite mp3 player is still my old Zen Vision M *_*

237 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:08:35pm

re: #224 imp_62

1001 eyerolls because of 1001 arabian nights? Literary allusions! I love it!

You caught that, huh? ;)

238 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:09:09pm

re: #237 CuriousLurker

You caught that, huh? ;)

Oh, do please tell me you did it on purpose!

239 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:09:34pm

re: #230 JasonA

And you know, I really would've pegged you for an Android guy. Incredibly cutomizable, open-source (Google gives it away, literally), tons of apps. Look into it.

well, I like the Android, but I like elegance better, and the Android is too wild west


I also REALLY REALLY like Windows 7 and I would like the phone to communicate seamlessly and awesomely with my massive Windows 7 workstation Obelisk Crackling with Blue Light that hovers between worlds thrumming with cosmic energy

240 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:09:51pm

re: #238 imp_62

Oh, do please tell me you did it on purpose!

Of course she did :D

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:09:55pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Along with Rauf they are protesting Reza Aslan who appears frequently on John Stweard and Steven Colbert.

Aslan wrote "No god but God", which is quite an interesting book about the origins of Islam. I enjoyed it.

Various people have told me he's HORRIBLE, but I haven't seen him do or say anything horrible yet.

242 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:10:23pm

re: #239 WindUpBird

well, I like the Android, but I like elegance better, and the Android is too wild west

I also REALLY REALLY like Windows 7 and I would like the phone to communicate seamlessly and awesomely with my massive Windows 7 workstation Obelisk Crackling with Blue Light that hovers between worlds thrumming with cosmic energy

I am married to Google, for better or worse, so I am an Android user. Apple gives me the creeps, besides.

243 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:10:38pm

re: #231 WindUpBird

That's sad

Tattoos are hot, if they're done well, and concieved well

I never cared for them, even in my pre-Muslim days. Maybe becuase no one in our family had one and my dad frowned on them. I appreciate the art itself though.

244 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:05pm

'Kissing Box' Takes Cyber Sex to a New Creepier Level

FINALLY, basement dwellers everywhere can get some action.
Scientists at the Kajimoto Laboratory at the University of Electro-Communications in Tokyo are developing a gadget that can digitally transmit the sensation of kissing.

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I can see where this is going... or cumming.

245 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:05pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

Never gonna fool those geniuses with our taqiyya, no siree Bob, they've got us all pegged. *1001 eyerolls*

Heh.
I haven't seen or heard that expression in, well, I'm not gonna say. Leave it "a long time".

246 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:23pm

re: #243 CuriousLurker

I never cared for them, even in my pre-Muslim days. Maybe becuase no one in our family had one and my dad frowned on them. I appreciate the art itself though.

Gravity + Time + Tattoos = Fail

247 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:32pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

'Kissing Box' Takes Cyber Sex to a New Creepier Level

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I can see where this is going... or cumming.

They just had to be Japanese...

248 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:42pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

Aslan wrote "No god but God", which is quite an interesting book about the origins of Islam. I enjoyed it.

Various people have told me he's HORRIBLE, but I haven't seen him do or say anything horrible yet.

I was just watching his interview about that book....

Comedy Central Video

I don't see anything objectionable either.
249 ElCapitanAmerica  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:45pm

Jake Tapper is awesome!
Jake Tapper
@jaketapper
Was about to note military band playing "YMCA" but then wondered how that would be twisted into blogs about "Obama creating all-gay army"

250 Lidane  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:11:50pm

re: #114 aagcobb

I stay sane by reassuring myself that the sensible center exists and will not vote an obvious nutjob into the White House.

If there's a sensible center, it doesn't exist in the GOP. All the Republicans here in Texas are batshit insane, and the Dems that are in office here aren't any better. =P

251 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:12:20pm

re: #242 imp_62

I am married to Google, for better or worse, so I am an Android user. Apple gives me the creeps, besides.

I would happily take an Android if the Win7phone weren't available, I gots no beef with Google ^_^

The thing that KILLS ME is that hipsters and Apple evangelists still pretend Apple is THE UNDERDOG!!!

Which is just ridiculous and wrong on a level that makes me howl with rage and rend my garments, hahaha

252 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:12:53pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

That's so, so...[insert epithet of choice].

Along with Rauf they are protesting Reza Aslan who appears frequently on John Stweard and Steven Colbert.

According to Reza Aslan, Muslims have decided, in their secret gatherings, to bring down democracy through art.

ROFL

253 reine.de.tout  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:12:53pm

re: #246 imp_62

Gravity + Time + Tattoos = Fail

Well, that depends.

If time and gravity have already moved you along - then, not so much a fail.

254 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:12:53pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

hahaha one man's creepy is another man's awesome


I love how the internet is just inventing new paraphilias by the second

Human behavior is so fascinating

255 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:13:18pm

re: #238 imp_62

Oh, do please tell me you did it on purpose!

I did indeed, heh.

256 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:13:38pm

re: #251 WindUpBird

I would happily take an Android if the Win7phone weren't available, I gots no beef with Google ^_^

The thing that KILLS ME is that hipsters and Apple evangelists still pretend Apple is THE UNDERDOG!!!

Which is just ridiculous and wrong on a level that makes me howl with rage and rend my garments, hahaha

Heh. Apple's a far cry from the underdog in this fight. That honor probably goes to Microsoft at the moment. Partnering up with Nokia might end being a good idea, though.

257 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:13:38pm

re: #251 WindUpBird

I would happily take an Android if the Win7phone weren't available, I gots no beef with Google ^_^

The thing that KILLS ME is that hipsters and Apple evangelists still pretend Apple is THE UNDERDOG!!!

Which is just ridiculous and wrong on a level that makes me howl with rage and rend my garments, hahaha

Not to mention the sprinkling of ash upon your head.
I have a built-in fear of miniaturized Windows OS, because of past fail in that arena.

258 Lidane  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:13:55pm

re: #191 WindUpBird

man, i'm probably going to get a Windows 7 phone, because it looks way simpler to use than iphone or android, wya more elegant (used to have a Zune and I loved the ultraminimalist interface, I'm considering buying a zune HD because I hate Itunes to death) and also because now I can buy Microsoft and be the contrary bastard, heeheehee

I have a Windows phone. I like it.

Sure, I lost some apps, and I might have lost Angry Birds, but I've gained Windows Office and Adobe Reader on my phone, along with XBox Live. It all balances out.

259 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:14:23pm

re: #245 reine.de.tout

Heh.
I haven't seen or heard that expression in, well, I'm not gonna say. Leave it "a long time".

Oops, my age is showing.

260 makeitstopghazi  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:14:39pm

re: #227 imp_62

IIRC Zune marketplace is being shut down?

Say it ain't so! Where am I supposed to get my music if that happens?

(Zune isn't too friendly with non-MS music - the interface simplifies what is otherwiase a very frustrating process.)

261 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:14:55pm

re: #246 imp_62

Gravity + Time + Tattoos = Fail

Exactly. They may look great at 25, but at 55 not so much.

262 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:15:08pm

re: #246 imp_62

Gravity + Time + Tattoos = Fail

who gives a shit? I'm getting blackwork done. Gravity on a geometric design, it's still a geometric design

I will never make any decision about my life based on how I potentially may feel about it when I'm 60

When I'm 60, I'll be the 60 year old guy with crazy magickal mystikal tattoos, badass, I'll be the talk of the nursing home at 80, and I'll have a big white wizard beard to go with it

I actually can't wait to be an awesome old crazy hippie artist, my favorite instructor at Cornish was like 75 and EXACTLY LIKE ME, drive a little overpowered sports car, was skinny and forgetful and just the funniets, smartest most wonderful painter dude

263 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:15:32pm

re: #258 Lidane

I have a Windows phone. I like it.

Sure, I lost some apps, and I might have lost Angry Birds, but I've gained Windows Office and Adobe Reader on my phone, along with XBox Live. It all balances out.

I also love the hackability of Android. Mobile hotspot without paying the carrier an extra $15-$30 a month for the privilege? Yeah, I got it.

264 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:15:42pm

re: #256 JasonA

Heh. Apple's a far cry from the underdog in this fight. That honor probably goes to Microsoft at the moment. Partnering up with Nokia might end being a good idea, though.

I just love that MS isconsidered the contrary position


It's like the Atari ST all over again, or at least may be in a few years

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:16:11pm

re: #263 JasonA

I also love the hackability of Android. Mobile hotspot without paying the carrier an extra $15-$30 a month for the privilege? Yeah, I got it.

I don't hack :P

I'm not a geek in that way, I fuss with stuff, but I don't ever jailbreak stuff, not worth the hassle and I'd rather draw

266 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:17:30pm

re: #261 CuriousLurker

Exactly. They may look great at 25, but at 55 not so much.

hahaha you guys are worrying about the wrong shit :D


And au countraire, ever seen a 55 year old rock star with tattoos? They look fine to me!

the thing isa just, you know, not growing up :D at 55 I'll behave the way I do now ^_^

267 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:17:39pm

re: #262 WindUpBird

who gives a shit? I'm getting blackwork done. Gravity on a geometric design, it's still a geometric design

I will never make any decision about my life based on how I potentially may feel about it when I'm 60

When I'm 60, I'll be the 60 year old guy with crazy magickal mystikal tattoos, badass, I'll be the talk of the nursing home at 80, and I'll have a big white wizard beard to go with it

I actually can't wait to be an awesome old crazy hippie artist, my favorite instructor at Cornish was like 75 and EXACTLY LIKE ME, drive a little overpowered sports car, was skinny and forgetful and just the funniets, smartest most wonderful painter dude

I gotta admire your unapologetic craziness. ;o)

268 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:17:44pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

I don't hack :P

I'm not a geek in that way, I fuss with stuff, but I don't ever jailbreak stuff, not worth the hassle and I'd rather draw

Google has a very laissez-fair attitude when it comes to that. Apple, I've read, has put out updates to brick jailbroken phones. It seems to me like they consider their devices to still belong to them, long after you've purchased them.

269 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:18:19pm

re: #258 Lidane

I have a Windows phone. I like it.

Sure, I lost some apps, and I might have lost Angry Birds, but I've gained Windows Office and Adobe Reader on my phone, along with XBox Live. It all balances out.

xbox live on the phone is a thing I was thinking about as well, yeah

you have the 7, right? With the pretty green squares interface?

270 aagcobb  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:19:33pm

re: #250 Lidane

No, the GOP has drifted so far to the right that people who once could've been recognized as crazy extremists are being mainstreamed in the party.

271 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:20:07pm

re: #269 WindUpBird

xbox live on the phone is a thing I was thinking about as well, yeah

you have the 7, right? With the pretty green squares interface?

This one has a portrait qwerty: [Link: www.microsoft.com...]

T-Mobile network.

272 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:20:09pm

re: #267 CuriousLurker

I gotta admire your unapologetic craziness. ;o)

You have NO IDEA ^__^

honestly in person, I'm just this skinny guy in Portland who wears metal t-shirts, EVERYONE in Portland is waaay more tattooed than I am. Not a day goes by that I don't see some lady with both arms sleeved. Bartenders in particular have the most marvelous and pretty tats *_* But career artists sorta get to be Peter Pan in a way

I am considering dyeing my hair blue, like peacock blue, for burning man, so that's a thing too ^_^

273 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:20:30pm

re: #271 JasonA

This one has a portrait qwerty: [Link: www.microsoft.com...]

T-Mobile network.

T mobile is now AT&T! :( or about to be


I wanted T-Mobile, but then AT&T oof

274 Lidane  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:20:56pm

re: #269 WindUpBird

xbox live on the phone is a thing I was thinking about as well, yeah

you have the 7, right? With the pretty green squares interface?

Yep. I have a shiny new Samsung Focus. It's been a bit of an adjustment away from the iPhone, but I like it.

Plus, being able to earn XBox Live achievements while playing on my phone? Score. Hehe.

275 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:21:40pm

re: #268 JasonA

Google has a very laissez-fair attitude when it comes to that. Apple, I've read, has put out updates to brick jailbroken phones. It seems to me like they consider their devices to still belong to them, long after you've purchased them.

That's one reason of dozens I dislike them, and a big one

Apple gives me the same willies as Facebook. Too invasive, too powerful

The app store is pretty crooked, but that's a thing iphone devs can bitch about for days

276 MinisterO  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:21:45pm

There's really no action you can't justify in a contrived ticking time-bomb scenario. That's why we have principles. The establishment of loopholes in boldly stated principles is moral relativism at its finest.

It's wrong. Well, it's wrong unless I do it, because I'll have a really good reason. I have superior judgment, you know. You can trust me.

277 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:22:09pm

re: #274 Lidane

Yep. I have a shiny new Samsung Focus. It's been a bit of an adjustment away from the iPhone, but I like it.

Plus, being able to earn XBox Live achievements while playing on my phone? Score. Hehe.

bwahahaha NICE

278 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:22:43pm

re: #273 WindUpBird

T mobile is now AT&T! :( or about to be

I wanted T-Mobile, but then AT&T oof

I know, I know. But now is actually a pretty good time to get on T-Mobile. They're offering unlimited everything for $80 a month. And AT&T has stated that they'll honor all T-Mobile plans. Plus, if the deal does go through, AT&T's network will get a lot better thanks to all that spectrum they're getting in the deal.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:23:06pm

re: #261 CuriousLurker

Exactly. They may look great at 25, but at 55 not so much.

You have to choose wisely, is my only observation.

280 lostlakehiker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:23:12pm

re: #24 Obdicut

There is never a time you can know that torture is the right solution. Ever.

And you know this, because you've done all possible experiments and considered all possible scenarios?

All you can really say is that most, or very nearly all, instances where it might seem at first that torture would serve and nothing else would, are cases of being mistaken as to the facts. Some other means of interrogation would work better. Your torture would elicit only desperate lies, and not the truth. Etc. etc.

It is very difficult to logically rule out, in advance, all possibilities. What if you have an encrypted message, in hand, with the answer you need, if only you could decrypt it. You ask for the key. You will be able to distinguish desperate lies from the truth: the real key will decrypt the file.

I am NOT advocating for torture as policy. It attracts sickos. It hurts our reputation. (My observation that there can be instances where it is morally necessary seems to be hurting mine.) It looks like an answer in many situations where it's not.

My guess is that if the guy making the call knows he will die for making it, there won't be many frivolous uses of torture. Lesser penalties, for that matter, ought to suffice to make the point that this is no tool for anything but the most dire of emergencies.

But you are overly confident of your thinking, to imagine that you have taken into account everything that might ever come up, and reasoned through it all, and you know that there can never, ever, be a case where torture would demonstrably offer far better chances of averting a colossal disaster than would any other approach.

Drawing bright red lines around secondary moral issues elevates to primary importance moral rules that in the final analysis are corollaries to the first-principles rules. This is why, in both Judaism and Christianity, the Sabbath may be broken if lives are at stake, for instance. Both faiths have come to grips with this necessity to distinguish top priorities from secondary.

I'm arguing in the same spirit. Rule 1: a human shall not murder another human, nor (various qualifications about risk and feasibility now enter; there is a lot of fine print) idly stand by and just watch it happen when intervening would have been easy enough.

Rule 2: Rule 1 takes priority.

Rules 3---(whatever).

281 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:23:44pm

re: #262 WindUpBird

who gives a shit? I'm getting blackwork done. Gravity on a geometric design, it's still a geometric design

I will never make any decision about my life based on how I potentially may feel about it when I'm 60

When I'm 60, I'll be the 60 year old guy with crazy magickal mystikal tattoos, badass, I'll be the talk of the nursing home at 80, and I'll have a big white wizard beard to go with it

I actually can't wait to be an awesome old crazy hippie artist, my favorite instructor at Cornish was like 75 and EXACTLY LIKE ME, drive a little overpowered sports car, was skinny and forgetful and just the funniets, smartest most wonderful painter dude

I always wanted to be the guy who doesn't look like he forgot that tomorrow was probably coming.

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:23:51pm

re: #270 aagcobb

No, the GOP has drifted so far to the right that people who once could've been recognized as crazy extremists are being mainstreamed in the party.

And they're still drifting!

That's the terrifying part to me.

283 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:24:02pm

re: #275 WindUpBird

That's one reason of dozens I dislike them, and a big one

Apple gives me the same willies as Facebook. Too invasive, too powerful

The app store is pretty crooked, but that's a thing iphone devs can bitch about for days

Another thing I can't stand. You can't buy programs for your device from anyone other than Apple. I don't think we'd ever buy a computer if you had to buy all of the software just from Microsoft, would we?

284 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:24:05pm

re: #276 MinisterO

"Sir! The bomb is about to go off in fifteen minutes in the basement of Dionysis Overdrive! We need you to sneak into the club wearing this latex macaw costume!"

"I did not become a spy for this bullshit."

285 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:24:23pm

re: #278 JasonA

I know, I know. But now is actually a pretty good time to get on T-Mobile. They're offering unlimited everything for $80 a month. And AT&T has stated that they'll honor all T-Mobile plans. Plus, if the deal does go through, AT&T's network will get a lot better thanks to all that spectrum they're getting in the deal.

mmmmmmmmm... (frowny Marge Simpson grumble)

286 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:24:35pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

mmm... (frowny Marge Simpson grumble)

lol

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:25:11pm

re: #272 WindUpBird

You have NO IDEA ^__^

honestly in person, I'm just this skinny guy in Portland who wears metal t-shirts, EVERYONE in Portland is waaay more tattooed than I am. Not a day goes by that I don't see some lady with both arms sleeved. Bartenders in particular have the most marvelous and pretty tats *_* But career artists sorta get to be Peter Pan in a way

I am considering dyeing my hair blue, like peacock blue, for burning man, so that's a thing too ^_^

I'm thinking about getting a couple of streaks. Just because I can see forty coming, and I want to let it know I'm not planning to get staid on its account.

Which is hilarious, because STAID has been the watchword of my twenties and thirties. Time to change things up, I suppose.

288 Four More Tears  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:25:29pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

Sprint it is, I guess. Oh, and no Windows phones are 4g, so there's that...

289 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:25:44pm

re: #283 JasonA

Another thing I can't stand. You can't buy programs for your device from anyone other than Apple. I don't think we'd ever buy a computer if you had to buy all of the software just from Microsoft, would we?

YES EXACTLY

fuck that running, fuck it on a train


it's just like politics. What people will tolerate form Apple, they'd lose their minds in fury if Microsoft did it

Microsoft doesn't do that, and that's why I still dig Microsoft

Just ya know, not all their OSes are so good. Win7 is AWESOME. And emulates every single ancient XP thing I have

290 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:26:32pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm thinking about getting a couple of streaks. Just because I can see forty coming, and I want to let it know I'm not planning to get staid on its account.

Which is hilarious, because STAID has been the watchword of my twenties and thirties. Time to change things up, I suppose.

I gots MANY friends in their 40s with wild hair. One just dyes it all magenta, all of it. ^__^

Seriously, ya got one life! Have fun with hair!

291 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:26:51pm

re: #290 WindUpBird

and of course she was Old Skool Rocky Horror live actress

292 Lidane  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:28:16pm

re: #268 JasonA

It seems to me like they consider their devices to still belong to them, long after you've purchased them.

They've always been that way. IIRC, it used to be a warranty violation to even open up an Apple computer when something went wrong.

293 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:29:27pm

re: #272 WindUpBird

You have NO IDEA ^__^

honestly in person, I'm just this skinny guy in Portland who wears metal t-shirts, EVERYONE in Portland is waaay more tattooed than I am. Not a day goes by that I don't see some lady with both arms sleeved. Bartenders in particular have the most marvelous and pretty tats *_* But career artists sorta get to be Peter Pan in a way

I am considering dyeing my hair blue, like peacock blue, for burning man, so that's a thing too ^_^

I love peacock blue—do it!

Every society needs it Peter Pans. I have no issue with artistic craziness. I have plenty of crazy myself, but I keep it locked up safely inside my head where (most people) will never see it (hence I sit behind a computer designing corporate stuff instead of going down to The Village and letting my freak flag fly, heh).

294 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:30:15pm

re: #292 Lidane

They've always been that way. IIRC, it used to be a warranty violation to even open up an Apple computer when something went wrong.

AGGGGH OH MAN

I used to have a Powermac 8500 150, I was fond of it

It was a computer! And not a fashion accessory and gateway for pushing "apps"


I don't call them "apps" they're software. Or programs. Or they're branded as themselves, like Photoshop, or Sai, or Max, or Maya, or Neochrome or DEGAS (oldschool yo)

295 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:30:46pm

re: #281 imp_62

I always wanted to be the guy who doesn't look like he forgot that tomorrow was probably coming.

LOL, me too. I just don't have the nerve.

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:31:43pm

re: #293 CuriousLurker

I love peacock blue—do it!

Every society needs it Peter Pans. I have no issue with artistic craziness. I have plenty of crazy myself, but I keep it locked up safely inside my head where (most people) will never see it (hence I sit behind a computer designing corporate stuff instead of going down to The Village and letting my freak flag fly, heh).

peacock blue is my absolute fave color


Nothing wrong with being freaky on the weekends, the CEO of the iphone dev my friend works for takes his kids to Burning Man every year :D

297 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:32:35pm

re: #295 CuriousLurker

LOL, me too. I just don't have the nerve.

I know that when I lay dying, I will not be overcome with regret that I did not let some beefy Hell's Angel etch-a-sketch on my body.

298 CuriousLurker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:33:37pm

re: #297 imp_62

I know that when I lay dying, I will not be overcome with regret that I did not let some beefy Hell's Angel etch-a-sketch on my body.

HAHAHAHAHAHA...

299 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:33:58pm

re: #281 imp_62

I always wanted to be the guy who doesn't look like he forgot that tomorrow was probably coming.

I think we just have fundamentally different philosophies

what are the drawbacks of being older with tattoos? it's not like it distorts beyond recognition if you get something simple


The thing is, IMAGERY distorts. If you tattoo a face, it'll distort eventually. Abstract designs, who cares? I want Gustav Klimt style art deco/nouveau designs. Some seven pointed stars, maybe some arcane cursive song lyrics I hold close to my heart ^_^ Maybe they'll move around a bit, but my art is loose anyway! It's part of the fun :D

300 shutdown  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:34:13pm

time to pick my son up from SAT prep. BBL

301 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:35:25pm

re: #297 imp_62

I know that when I lay dying, I will not be overcome with regret that I did not let some beefy Hell's Angel etch-a-sketch on my body.

I think we're seeing the gulf between the portland artist

My tattoo artist wasn't a hell's angel, he was anerd who went to art school


in Portland, you pretty much need to have gone to art school, or at lreast have a professional illustration portfolio for a tattooo shop to even LOOk at you


Also, I literally have a friend who is a professional artist who's learning the craft :D :D :D And lemme tell ya, she ain't no hell's angel!

Having a friend tattoo you, that's some cool symbolic right thar

302 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:35:59pm

my typing sucks, because I'm trying to wear my wrist brace all the time, yeep :P

303 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:36:30pm

re: #280 lostlakehiker

And you know this, because you've done all possible experiments and considered all possible scenarios?

No, because it's very simple. There is not time where, if you don't know the information beforehand, that torture can work, because you'll never know when they're telling the truth. You have to be able to verify it.

It is very difficult to logically rule out, in advance, all possibilities.

No, it's not. It's totally easy to logically rule out all possibilities. If you can't verify A without knowing A, then you can't act as though it's a definitive answer. If you're talking about "What wire do I cut?" scenarios, it still applies; if they say red, red might set off the bomb. There is no way that, if you don't know what the true answer is anyway, using torture will work.


My guess is that if the guy making the call knows he will die for making it, there won't be many frivolous uses of torture. Lesser penalties, for that matter, ought to suffice to make the point that this is no tool for anything but the most dire of emergencies.

And if concern about abuse of it were motivating me, then that'd move me. But that's not the point. The point is simply efficacy.


But you are overly confident of your thinking, to imagine that you have taken into account everything that might ever come up, and reasoned through it all, and you know that there can never, ever, be a case where torture would demonstrably offer far better chances of averting a colossal disaster than would any other approach.

You think that logic precludes ruling things out absolutely. It doesn't. I don't know why you think it does. The most basic of logical equations A != B means that you can rule out B when you have A.


Drawing bright red lines around secondary moral issues elevates to primary importance moral rules that in the final analysis are corollaries to the first-principles rules. This is why, in both Judaism and Christianity, the Sabbath may be broken if lives are at stake, for instance. Both faiths have come to grips with this necessity to distinguish top priorities from secondary.

I'm arguing in the same spirit. Rule 1: a human shall not murder another human, nor (various qualifications about risk and feasibility now enter; there is a lot of fine print) idly stand by and just watch it happen when intervening would have been easy enough.

Well, there's lots of times humans have to murder other humans, so that's a problem right there. But beyond that really obvious flaw: You are acting as though the choice is "torture" or "do nothing". It isn't. There is never a time where torture is the only choice. Oh, and by the way, this demonstrates you don't believe your own logic: In that situation, you've ruled out everything but torture working. You are often excellent at disproving yourself.

And again, that line of logic also means that you can torture the innocent if you believe you'll save a larger number of innocent lives by doing so.

304 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:37:37pm

re: #303 Obdicut

JACK BAUER ARGUMENT REPEATED BY GOP POLS LOLOL

305 lostlakehiker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:37:59pm

re: #49 ausador

Stop watching reruns of 24, the terrorists do not gasp out the secret code to disarm the nuke with their dieing breath. Jack Bauer does not really exist.

Besides which how likely is the scenario you envision?
1. We know the exact nature of threat (a nuke/bioweapon) and so we can feel justified to torture someone to prevent it.

2. We absolutely know that the person we have in custody actually has the knowledge we need to stop this threat.

3. After having successfully set up a really massive strike against the U.S. that is going to happen without any further aid from this person he will now willingly give it all up rather than become a martyr?

4. Why not just lie and buy some time for the plan to be completed. If you tell the torturers something half-way believable the torture will stop while they check it, the nuke will go off, and then you can go to gitmo or federal prison.

5. Etc, etc, etc...

This whole "Torture is OK if we really, really need critical information right now" thing is nothing but a giant fallacious strawman. Name me one time in the recorded history of modern warfare where this has actually happened.

I have never watched even one issue of "24". I cannot name an instance; I do not maintain that the case has yet come up when it was justified. Such cases would, in my view, come up exceedingly rarely, if at all.

But never never never? For sure? That's a different question. Also, you take it as axiomatic that the subject cannot be broken, at least, not in time. And you know all about this because why? Our own prisoners have found that it's altogether feasible to break even a good and determined man.

We have found that our enemies gain nothing by it. What they gain in information has its value to them, but nothing to get excited about. What they lose, they don't even recognize. But somehow, our men fight like the very devil and don't surrender even when things look grim. For some obscure reason.

This is a practical basis, one of many, for the judgment that torture as policy is counterproductive. On its face, it's immoral: only extraordinary returns in critical information could possibly go into the scales on the other side. And yet---never is too big a word.

The time may come when it's the only choice.

306 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:40:01pm

re: #305 lostlakehiker

There is no such thing as being 'broken' to the extent where the torturer can reliably know that only truth comes after that part.

That's yet another flaw in the torture argument.

307 lostlakehiker  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:41:35pm

re: #303 Obdicut

You quietly fail to address my point that encrypted files and keys offer instances of situations in which you can know whether you've been told the truth or not.

Always better to argue against the case you'd like me to have made, than the case I did make.

As to torturing innocents, just go away. Honestly!

308 allegro  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:42:07pm

re: #303 Obdicut

Interestingly, I just read this article:

Former Military Interrogator Matthew Alexander: Despite GOP Claims, "Immoral" Torture "Slowed Down" Effort to Find Osama bin Laden

Video and transcript of the interview included.

309 Obdicut  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:44:31pm

re: #307 lostlakehiker

You quietly fail to address my point that encrypted files and keys offer instances of situations in which you can know whether you've been told the truth or not.

No, but then that simply gets into the cycle. He can say he doesn't know it. You torture him. He tells you a key. It doesn't work. He says he doesn't know it. You torture him. He tells you a key. It doesn't work.

Can you tell if he knows, or if he doesn't? Your defense then, I guess, is that nothing would work-- but that requires a situation where there is no other possibility of you figuring out the key otherwise. If that were the case, it'd be faster to simply spam keys, since you don't know if he knows.

Seriously, dude. It's not that I thought of every scenario. It's really that logic, exactly contrary to what you said (and I think this makes me understand the severe flaws your arguments tend to have) explicitly allows you to rule out things.

As to torturing innocents, just go away. Honestly!

Please explain how your argument doesn't allow an innocent to be tortured if it would save a million lives to do so.

310 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:46:38pm

re: #305 lostlakehiker

you are repeating fantasies dude


the 24 argument is just a reflection of the basic cluelessness about human behavior that Americans have, the 24 show REFLECTS what Americans already think, THAT'S WHY THERE'S A TV SHOW THAT USES IT AS A NARRATIVE DEVICE

when you're storytelling, you don't use tropes that don't ring true to Americans. 24 SHOWS us what WE FEEL, not the other way around.

we have a culture of aggression, of using phsyical force and threats to get our way, we've habituated our country to it, and it's retarded

311 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, May 6, 2011 1:50:37pm

re: #305 lostlakehiker

ever worked in social work?

Ever seen human behavior of people in crisis up close? of people in extreme pain, in the throes of psychosis? Hallucinating because they have acute schizophrenia?


People are not robots. You cannot push their pain buttons and get what you want reliably. You cannot predict someone's behavior under duress. Every single personality type is different.

Look up MMeyers Brigg. See how different personality types react when stressed. they all react WILDLY DIFFERENTLY


This is standard libertarian stuff, I know a lot of libertarians, they're nice people, but they, to a MAN, do not really have any experience in a health care or social work setting, they're all tech workers


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 62 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 163 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1