Poll: 30% of Republicans Are Still Birthers

And 34% of general ‘conservatives’

PollMay 2011 • Views: 51,233

Last week we took note of a Washington Post poll that seemed to indicate support for the Birther movement collapsing, following President Obama’s release of his “long form” Hawaiian birth certificate. But there’s another poll from Zogby that didn’t get as much media play, also taken after the release of Obama’s birth certificate, and it shows something very different: 30% of Republicans Continue to Believe Obama Not Born in US.

UTICA, NY - Sixteen percent of all voters and 30% of Republicans do not believe President Barack Obama has proven he was born in the U.S., even after release of his long-form birth certificate, a new IBOPE Zogby interactive survey finds.

These results are from an IBOPE Zogby interactive poll conducted April 29-May 2, which was after Obama released the birth certificate and addressed the news media on the topic.

Demographic groups besides Republicans expressing the highest levels of doubt about Obama’s birth in the U.S. are conservatives (34%), and those without a college degree (21%) vs. those with a degree (11%).

Jump to bottom

221 comments

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 12:36:35pm

and I bet they'll be just as happy to join the deather movement as well.

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 12:37:28pm

That's because, by this point, it's really all they've got left to cling to. It's become almost an article of faith to them, where they continue to hold onto it tenaciously, despite contrary evidence. They have to believe it true, if only to justify their absolute hatred of the man.

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 12:37:30pm

Wow. What a scary level of disconnect with reality.

deadletterboy Mon, May 9, 2011 12:38:17pm

That 11% disturbs me the most. I mean come on! You all went through liberal academia! What is wrong with you?
/

HappyWarrior Mon, May 9, 2011 12:38:56pm

They'll believe anything if they think it would discredit Obama.

AntonSirius Mon, May 9, 2011 12:40:11pm

Zogby's interactive polling usually comes with an implied accuracy of +/- 100%. They're a bad joke, and they ruined his rep as a pollster.

jaunte Mon, May 9, 2011 12:40:47pm

"We've got to hold on to what we've got
'Cause it doesn't make a difference if we make it or not."

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 12:42:14pm

re: #2 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That's because, by this point, it's really all they've got left to cling to. It's become almost an article of faith to them, where they continue to hold onto it tenaciously, despite contrary evidence. They have to believe it true, if only to justify their absolute hatred of the man.

They would feel empty and unfulfilled if they let it go.

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 12:43:25pm

re: #7 jaunte

"We've got to hold on to what we've got
'Cause it doesn't make a difference if we make it or not."

Don't Jovi the thread, man.

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 12:44:08pm

'Interactive Poll'.

Is that a cute way of saying 'Pharyngulate me, dammit'?

jaunte Mon, May 9, 2011 12:44:25pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But they're livin' on a prayer!

celticdragon Mon, May 9, 2011 12:44:55pm

re: #5 HappyWarrior

They'll believe anything if they think it would discredit Obama.

Yes. I read some comments at Malkin.com where they were claiming that the notion that Obama would insist on having the American flag removed from Ground Zero was "all too believable".

Total disconnection from reality. They will believe anything however insane and evil they read about the President, because they want to believe that about him.

They are no different from the consumers of The Protocols of The Elders of Zion or any other wacko hate conspiracy.

The want to believe it, because it justifies and rationalizes the hatred they already have.

SpaceJesus Mon, May 9, 2011 12:45:05pm

Republicans: 30% racist and stupid, 70% just racist

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 12:45:35pm

re: #7 jaunte

"We've got to hold on to what we've got
'Cause it doesn't make a difference if we make it or not."

I blame you.

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 12:47:43pm

re: #11 jaunte

But they're livin' on a prayer!

It's all the same, only the names will change,
Everyday it seems we're wasting away

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 12:49:09pm

Over 2 years later, Obama's words are still ringing true:

"It is going to be very difficult for Republicans to run on their stewardship of the economy or their outstanding foreign policy," Obama told a fundraiser in Jacksonville, Florida. "We know what kind of campaign they're going to run. They're going to try to make you afraid.

"They're going to try to make you afraid of me. He's young and inexperienced and he's got a funny name. And did I mention he's black?"

HappyWarrior Mon, May 9, 2011 12:49:32pm

re: #12 celticdragon

Yes. I read some comments at Malkin.com where they were claiming that the notion that Obama would insist on having the American flag removed from Ground Zero was "all too believable".

Total disconnection from reality. They will believe anything however insane and evil they read about the President, because they want to believe that about him.

They are no different from the consumers of The Protocols of The Elders of Zion or any other wacko hate conspiracy.

The want to believe it, because it justifies and rationalizes the hatred they already have.

YEah I saw those too. Typical.

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 12:49:40pm

Damn you Jaunte.

Damn you to hell.

Do you even understand the forces you've unleashed?

jaunte Mon, May 9, 2011 12:49:58pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

*insane cackle*

watching you tiny alien kittens are Mon, May 9, 2011 12:50:15pm

Poll: Close to 100% of Evilutionists believe that we are descended from Monkeys and that the Earth is billions of years old!

///oops wrong story, wrong source, kinda in the same vein though really... ;)

HappyWarrior Mon, May 9, 2011 12:50:18pm

re: #16 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Over 2 years later, Obama's words are still ringing true:

And as I recall they whined mercilessly about that but they've done nothing but prove him correct.

makeitstop Mon, May 9, 2011 12:50:54pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's all the same, only the names will change,
Everyday it seems we're wasting away

This thread is like bad medicine. /

Stanghazi Mon, May 9, 2011 12:52:23pm

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn you Jaunte.

Damn you to hell.

Do you even understand the forces you've unleashed?

Ready or not!

Amory Blaine Mon, May 9, 2011 12:52:52pm

The MSM is guilty of propagating this filthy lie. But we all know from previous experience that they will not accept responsibility for propagating lies.

dragonfire1981 Mon, May 9, 2011 12:52:54pm

My how time changes things.

1941 Patriot - loved America, respected the President, treated others as he wanted to be treated, supported all that was great about the country.

2011 "Patriot" - A racist, theocratic person who believes the President is an evil foreign Muslim out to destroy the country and all Liberals should be burned at the stake.

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 12:53:53pm

re: #16 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Over 2 years later, Obama's words are still ringing true:

He predicted the future! He's a witch! Burn him!

Big Steve Mon, May 9, 2011 12:54:04pm

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Republicans: 30% racist and stupid, 70% just racist

I am a Republican and am neither so your syllogism fails.

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 12:54:22pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't Jovi the thread, man.

Does this spandex make my package look totally fucking huge or what?

Amory Blaine Mon, May 9, 2011 12:54:55pm

re: #28 darthstar

Does this spandex make my package look totally fucking huge or what?

Fuckin' a man. Fuckin' a!!!

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 12:55:01pm

Right now, poor Charles is drumming his fingers on his keyboard, trying not to ban Jaunte...re: #25 dragonfire1981

Pretty awesome post there.

justaminute Mon, May 9, 2011 12:55:07pm

On an Oklahoma blog when President Obama got the credit for getting Bin Laden and the second birth certificate release, they went back to the old standby "Is Obama the Anti-Christ?"

iceweasel Mon, May 9, 2011 12:56:04pm

re: #31 justaminute

On an Oklahoma blog when President Obama got the credit for getting Bin Laden and the second birth certificate release, they went back to the old standby "Is Obama the Anti-Christ?"

Birthers, FlatEarthers, and EndTimes fanatics. Today's GOP.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 9, 2011 12:57:00pm

re: #31 justaminute

On an Oklahoma blog when President Obama got the credit for getting Bin Laden and the second birth certificate release, they went back to the old standby "Is Obama the Anti-Christ?"

I would expect the anti-Christ to have a little more power over the economy.

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 12:57:14pm

re: #27 Big Steve

I am a Republican and am neither so your syllogism fails.

RINO

iossarian Mon, May 9, 2011 12:58:18pm

re: #33 EmmmieG

I would expect the anti-Christ to have a little more power over the economy.

LOL. "Tremble, mortals, at my ability to make unemployment go from 9.5% to 9.6%!"

Bulworth Mon, May 9, 2011 12:58:21pm

re: #31 justaminute

On an Oklahoma blog when President Obama got the credit for getting Bin Laden and the second birth certificate release, they went back to the old standby "Is Obama the Anti-Christ?"

Since it's difficult to arrive at an empirically determined identification of the "anti-Christ" this is a perfect unfalsifiable line of argument for the 27percenters.

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 12:59:56pm

re: #25 dragonfire1981

My how time changes things.

1941 Patriot - loved America, respected the President, treated others as he wanted to be treated, supported all that was great about the country.

2011 "Patriot" - A racist, theocratic person who believes the President is an evil foreign Muslim out to destroy the country and all Liberals should be burned at the stake.

1941? Think you meant 2001, you know, the year it became unpatriotic to question anything Dubya did.

lawhawk Mon, May 9, 2011 1:00:30pm

re: #28 darthstar

I'll go with the "or what."

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:01:13pm

re: #27 Big Steve

I am a Republican and am neither so your syllogism fails.

That means you're definitely not Donald Trump:

TRUMP: Well, you know, when it comes to racism and racists, I am the least racist person there is. And I think most people would me would tell you that. I am the least racist I’ve had great relationships. In fact, Randal Pinkett won, as you know, on The Apprentice a little while ago, a couple of years ago. And Randall’s been outstanding in every way. So I am the least racist person.

I'm so glad that Trump took Obama's (mocking) words to heart and is actually using "The Apprentice" as evidence of his presidential qualities...

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:01:29pm

re: #28 darthstar

Does this spandex make my package look totally fucking huge or what?

No, but the socks do the trick.

justaminute Mon, May 9, 2011 1:01:49pm

re: #33 EmmmieG

I would expect the anti-Christ to have a little more power over the economy.

They are not moved by common sense, but it's fun to aggravate them with it. It's useless, they are not moved by reality.

Amory Blaine Mon, May 9, 2011 1:02:03pm

re: #39 darthstar

It does keep him up at night...

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:02:25pm

re: #40 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, but the socks do the trick.

Not the rubber hose?

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:02:50pm

re: #27 Big Steve

I am a Republican and am neither so your syllogism fails.

Are sure, really, really sure? Ask your precinct captain if you're a RINO.

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:03:21pm

re: #43 b_sharp

Not the rubber hose?

The socks help prevent the rubber hose from chafing my thighs.

Stanghazi Mon, May 9, 2011 1:04:10pm

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Wisconsin protest meets this thread.

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:04:14pm

re: #45 darthstar

The socks help prevent the rubber hose from chafing my thighs.

Wool was a bad call.

dell*nix Mon, May 9, 2011 1:05:13pm

re: #44 Decatur Deb

This is not Chicago. There are no precinct captains here.

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:06:33pm

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wool was a bad call.

Scratch that itch!

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:07:01pm

re: #48 dell*nix

This is not Chicago. There are no precinct captains here.

No wonder you have thinking (non-TP) people who consider themselves GOP.

dell*nix Mon, May 9, 2011 1:09:38pm

re: #50 Decatur Deb

The ones that think are considering leaving the party as we have a shortage of butterfly nets and nowhere to deposit the contents.

Stanghazi Mon, May 9, 2011 1:09:53pm

Hillary Clinton, Audrey Tomason go missing in Situation Room photo in Der Tzitung newspaper
By Melissa Bell

Update: Der Tzitung responded in an emailed statement, that the photo editor did not read the fine print on the picture and the newspaper has since apologized to the White House and State Department. “In accord with our religious beliefs, we do not publish photos of women, which in no way relegates them to a lower status... Because of laws of modesty, we are not allowed to publish pictures of women, and we regret if this gives an impression of disparaging to women, which is certainly never our intention. We apologize if this was seen as offensive.”

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

dell*nix Mon, May 9, 2011 1:11:02pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

Another non-apology.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 9, 2011 1:11:25pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

Hillary Clinton, Audrey Tomason go missing in Situation Room photo in Der Tzitung newspaper
By Melissa Bell

Update: Der Tzitung responded in an emailed statement, that the photo editor did not read the fine print on the picture and the newspaper has since apologized to the White House and State Department. “In accord with our religious beliefs, we do not publish photos of women, which in no way relegates them to a lower status... Because of laws of modesty, we are not allowed to publish pictures of women, and we regret if this gives an impression of disparaging to women, which is certainly never our intention. We apologize if this was seen as offensive.”

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Well, at least it didn't mean the same as when the Kremlin disappeared people out of photos.

jaunte Mon, May 9, 2011 1:14:11pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

That reminds me of the story about the traveling monks, the woman and the river:
[Link: goto.bilkent.edu.tr...]

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:14:47pm

Update: Rescuers were able to save most of the Libyan refugees ship whose ship sank last night.

Youtube Video

Italian coast guards and local fishermen saved 528 refugees on a boat from Libya after their vessel hit rocks off the island of Lampedusa, an operation one rescuer described as a "miracle", but three dead bodies were found later under the boat later.

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:14:52pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

I'm sorry, if your self-inflicted laws of modesty are that extreme, don't publish the photo...period. If Hillary had won the primary and been elected president, would they be publishing pictures of an empty podium with the caption "President Clinton addressing the returning troops"...this isn't modesty, it's sexism - women should not only be silent, but they should also be invisible - except at home when they're catching semen or cooking dinner.

reine.de.tout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:15:24pm

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Republicans: 30% racist and stupid, 70% just racist

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

justaminute Mon, May 9, 2011 1:17:45pm

In Oklahoma, I think the only way to get them is to hit them in their pocket book. They are very nervous of the way Republicans are going after their main supports in old age, SS and Medicare. They are also worried about losing funding for early storm warnings. The Democrats worry them about the possibility of cutting off military spending. Tinker AFB and the other bases in OK is a very big employer. We have the FAA too. They hate to be reminded that the government is big in our state. It's funny to listen to them when you point that out.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 9, 2011 1:17:56pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

Well, I'm glad to have you around. To begin with, that makes two of us.

(It's a good thing I could drag this laptop over to the kitchen table because the shackles don't let me get that far away it.)

(Just kidding. I don't have a laptop. Just really long arms.)

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:18:10pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

yeah, there is just no problem with those brazen insults anymore...usually I consider the source and move on....there are some real assholes that post here

thatthatisis Mon, May 9, 2011 1:18:13pm

re: #52 Stanley Sea

Hillary Clinton, Audrey Tomason go missing in Situation Room photo in Der Tzitung newspaper
By Melissa Bell

Update: Der Tzitung responded in an emailed statement, that the photo editor did not read the fine print on the picture and the newspaper has since apologized to the White House and State Department. “In accord with our religious beliefs, we do not publish photos of women, which in no way relegates them to a lower status... Because of laws of modesty, we are not allowed to publish pictures of women, and we regret if this gives an impression of disparaging to women, which is certainly never our intention. We apologize if this was seen as offensive.”

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

No photos of women? Then televising Will and Kate's wedding must have been a real *****.

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:19:01pm

re: #51 dell*nix

The ones that think are considering leaving the party as we have a shortage of butterfly nets and nowhere to deposit the contents.

That's unfortunate. Because if you were in Chicago there is this nice children's museum that would enjoy them:

Image: chicago-bflies-1.jpg
Image: chicago-bflies-2.jpg
Image: chicago-bflies-3.jpg

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:19:06pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

There is room for another 30% in SJ's equation.

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 9, 2011 1:21:02pm

re: #62 thatthatisis

No photos of women? Then televising Will and Kate's wedding must have been a real ***.

Yeah. How many times do you really want to look at Prince Charles, anyway?

Wait--does this mean that the female European monarchs were also blacked out? The Queen of England, the Queen of the Netherlands, the Crown Princess of Sweden?

jaunte Mon, May 9, 2011 1:21:11pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

I don't believe you're unwelcome to most of the people here. (and Space Jesus is known for making sweeping generalizations).

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:21:27pm

re: #64 Decatur Deb

There is room for another 30% in SJ's equation.

really...fuck it, if people have to toss racism around to get a laugh, I don't want any part of such tasteless blather

Charles Johnson Mon, May 9, 2011 1:21:38pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

Well, that's certainly not how I feel. I didn't even see Spacejesus's comment til you mentioned it, but that doesn't speak for me.

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:21:59pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

Nope.

SJ doesn't speak for anyone but SJ.

iossarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:22:00pm

re: #57 darthstar

I'm sorry, if your self-inflicted laws of modesty are that extreme, don't publish the photo...period. If Hillary had won the primary and been elected president, would they be publishing pictures of an empty podium with the caption "President Clinton addressing the returning troops"...this isn't modesty, it's sexism - women should not only be silent, but they should also be invisible - except at home when they're catching semen or cooking dinner.

We don't mean to belittle women, we just don't like to talk about them and their achievements.

Charles Johnson Mon, May 9, 2011 1:23:25pm

Major traffic coming from Reddit -- we're #5 on the front page now.

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

reine.de.tout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:24:03pm

OK, I'm over it, thanks all.
*flogging self for being too thin-skinned*

thatthatisis Mon, May 9, 2011 1:24:51pm

re: #65 EmmmieG

Yeah. How many times do you really want to look at Prince Charles, anyway?

Wait--does this mean that the female European monarchs were also blacked out? The Queen of England, the Queen of the Netherlands, the Crown Princess of Sweden?

You've heard of empty suits? This is the empty dress.

Just kidding. These people would never be able to televise a wedding. Having to deal with Condi Rice and Hilary Clinton must give them heart failure. And cooties.

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:25:26pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

OK, I'm over it, thanks all.
*flogging self for being too thin-skinned*

grab your cookie!

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:25:46pm

re: #71 Charles

Major traffic coming from Reddit -- we're #5 on the front page now.

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

It's the spandex.

justaminute Mon, May 9, 2011 1:25:46pm

re: #64 Decatur Deb

Reine, you are Nothing like the people that are in the Oklahoma thread. Even you, would get the "You are just a liberal masquerading as a Conservative!"

reine.de.tout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:26:32pm

re: #74 albusteve

grab your cookie!

What I really need right now is a chill pill.

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:26:52pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

OK, I'm over it, thanks all.
*flogging self for being too thin-skinned*

Reine, don't believe for a minute anyone here would put you in the same boat as Breitbart, Geller, Beck or any of the 'Right' pandering to them.

Jimmah Mon, May 9, 2011 1:27:59pm

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Republicans: 30% racist and stupid, 70% just racist

Come on now, spacejesus. All we can say after witnessing the all-out wingnut descent into abject assholery of the last several years is that there are some conservatives among whom there is some room for improvement/

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:28:00pm

Apropos...

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:28:27pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

What I really need right now is a chill pill.

You see that naked guy dancing down the street like a fool?

That's me.

reine.de.tout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:28:29pm

re: #78 b_sharp

Reine, don't believe for a minute anyone here would put you in the same boat as Breitbart, Geller, Beck or any of the 'Right' pandering to them.

I know this, and I thank you.
Overreacted, I did.
Lot going on.

Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Mon, May 9, 2011 1:28:33pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

OK, I'm over it, thanks all.
*flogging self for being too thin-skinned*

flogging should only be done for pleasure, unless you don't like the pain *shrugs* LOL

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:29:05pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

OK, I'm over it, thanks all.
*flogging self for being too thin-skinned*

Say 5 'Aves' and write a letter to your GOP committee, telling them to knock it off.

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:29:29pm

re: #30 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I typed that, but didn't mean to post it. Oops!

reine.de.tout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:30:10pm

re: #84 Decatur Deb

Say 5 'Aves' and write a letter to your GOP committee, telling them to knock it off.

Sheesh. I've sent letters, e-mails, responded to surveys, "Can we count on your vote", me "No way!".

They'll feel it come election time. I really hope.

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:31:01pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

I know this, and I thank you.
Overreacted, I did.
Lot going on.

I don't think you overreacted....it just shoes how much racism has been diluted, a handy tool to stab someone with

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:32:36pm

re: #87 albusteve

I don't think you overreacted...it just shoes how much racism has been diluted, a handy tool to stab someone with

Bullshit.

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:32:38pm

You aren't fooling me dog, that's an obvious parking violation.

I love taking pictures. Too bad I don't have a camera anymore. :(

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:32:43pm

Gingrich announces plan to piss away millions over the next year.

Newt Gingrich, the former U.S. House Speaker, has indicated he will seek the Republican nomination for President in 2012.

Stanghazi Mon, May 9, 2011 1:33:31pm

re: #87 albusteve

I don't think you overreacted...it just shoes how much racism has been diluted, a handy tool to stab someone with

Ya'll hung out here happily in the past when liberals, gays and muslims were shat upon daily. Get some lizard skin.

Four More Tears Mon, May 9, 2011 1:33:58pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich announces plan to piss away millions over the next year.

I'll laugh at anyone who donates to that cause.

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:34:12pm

re: #88 b_sharp

Bullshit.

don't bother me when I'm a victim

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 1:34:15pm

re: #81 b_sharp

You see that naked guy dancing down the street like a fool?

That's me.

Pant your damn pants on! Nobody wants to see that!

///

iossarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:34:47pm

re: #87 albusteve

I don't think you overreacted...it just shoes how much racism has been diluted, a handy tool to stab someone with

We can go back and forth about this, but the facts are that:

a) Donald Trump is polling fairly well among Republicans

b) He apparently believes that black people are too stupid to get into Ivy League schools without the help of "affirmative action"

Not too difficult to put the pieces together in my view.

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 1:35:12pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich announces plan to piss away millions over the next year.

So we go from The Donald to The Newt. I'm gonna need to stock up on more popcorn.

Lidane Mon, May 9, 2011 1:35:31pm

re: #90 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gingrich announces plan to piss away millions over the next year.

Hahahaha...that will be a hoot. I can't wait for him to justify his bullshit about cheating on his wives because of how much he loved this country.

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:36:07pm

re: #91 Stanley Sea

Ya'll hung out here happily in the past when liberals, gays and muslims were shat upon daily. Get some lizard skin.

what's that supposed to mean?....everybody shit on everybody til it was cleaned up

Killgore Trout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:36:14pm

re: #71 Charles

Major traffic coming from Reddit -- we're #5 on the front page now.

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

Nice.

100

Political Atheist Mon, May 9, 2011 1:36:21pm

Next GOP Poll I'd like to see

Hawaii Is
A. A State, part of the United States
B. A territory or protectorate
C. Another Country
D.. Don't know

101

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:37:07pm

re: #96 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So we go from The Donald to The Newt. I'm gonna need to stock up on more popcorn.

Someone told them each ex-wife earns them 10 bonus votes in the Electoral College.

102

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 1:37:29pm

re: #97 Lidane

Hahahaha...that will be a hoot. I can't wait for him to justify his bullshit about cheating on his wives because of how much he loved this country.

Especially while he was trying to crucify Clinton for the crime, nay the heresy, of getting a blowjob in office.

103

Killgore Trout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:37:40pm

re: #100 Rightwingconspirator

Next GOP Poll I'd like to see

Hawaii Is
A. A State, part of the United States
B. A territory or protectorate
C. Another Country
D.. Don't know

E. A communist plot

104

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 1:38:05pm

re: #100 Rightwingconspirator

Next GOP Poll I'd like to see

Hawaii Is
A. A State, part of the United States
B. A territory or protectorate
C. Another Country
D.. Don't know

ITS NOT EVEN ATTACHED!

105

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:38:20pm

To date there has been exactly one divorced President of the US.

106

Lidane Mon, May 9, 2011 1:38:22pm

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Someone told them each ex-wife earns them 10 bonus votes in the Electoral College.

If that's the case, the GOP might as well nominate Larry King. He's on wife number eight, IIRC.

Hehe.

107

Renaissance_Man Mon, May 9, 2011 1:38:31pm

re: #100 Rightwingconspirator

Next GOP Poll I'd like to see

Hawaii Is
A. A State, part of the United States
B. A territory or protectorate
C. Another Country
D.. Don't know

E. The birthplace of the Usurper.

By including that option, the GOP could finally produce a poll that says '100% of likely Republican primary voters believe Obama was born in Hawaii.'

108

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:38:49pm

The scourge of dreams.

Ok, I'm done for now unless you guys want more.

109

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:39:08pm

re: #105 Decatur Deb

To date there has been exactly one divorced President of the US.

Should've been several...

110

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 1:40:14pm

re: #106 Lidane

If that's the case, the GOP might as well nominate Larry King. He's on wife number eight, IIRC.

Hehe.

The man's still alive? Are we sure he's not a Sith Lord?

111

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:40:22pm

re: #105 Decatur Deb

To date there has been exactly one divorced President of the US.

and one accused polygamist

112

wrenchwench Mon, May 9, 2011 1:41:15pm

re: #91 Stanley Sea

Ya'll hung out here happily in the past when liberals, gays and muslims were shat upon daily. Get some lizard skin.

I hung out here happily too. Does it mean I'm complicit in that other stuff? Or is it just my turn to be thin skinned?

113

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:41:16pm

re: #111 albusteve

and one accused polygamist

Don't have that. Who?

114

Idle Drifter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:41:41pm

"We tell the truth but 25% of the country is retarded."
Pr. George W Bush on South Park.

All polls have margin error of +/- 5% though in this case there's little doubt.

115

Lidane Mon, May 9, 2011 1:42:18pm

BTW, Hitchens just tore Chomsky a new one over OBL:

Chomsky's Follies:The professor's pronouncements about Osama Bin Laden are stupid and ignorant

116

Idle Drifter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:42:28pm

re: #100 Rightwingconspirator

Next GOP Poll I'd like to see

Hawaii Is
A. A State, part of the United States
B. A territory or protectorate
C. Another Country
D.. Don't know

E. RON PAUL!

117

Interesting Times Mon, May 9, 2011 1:43:11pm

Just look at the difference between "Staunch Conservatives" and "Main Street Republicans"

Too bad it's the former who control the GOP :(

118

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:43:13pm

Pakistan's prime minister warned the United States Monday that his country could respond to any future U.S. raids on its soil with "full force," in the latest escalation of rhetoric in the wake of Usama bin Laden's death.

I'm shaking in my boots...we obviously have dire problems with Pakistan and I don't want to see the US sucked in any deeper

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

119

Stanghazi Mon, May 9, 2011 1:43:17pm

re: #112 wrenchwench

I hung out here happily too. Does it mean I'm complicit in that other stuff? Or is it just my turn to be thin skinned?

Didn't mean that.

120

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:43:43pm

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Don't have that. Who?

Jackson

121

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:44:00pm

re: #119 Stanley Sea

Didn't mean that.

you need to be more clear then

122

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:44:33pm

re: #120 albusteve

Jackson

Ah--yes. Tried to carve someone up IIRC.

123

Idle Drifter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:44:34pm

re: #115 Lidane

BTW, Hitchens just tore Chomsky a new one over OBL:

Chomsky's Follies:The professor's pronouncements about Osama Bin Laden are stupid and ignorant

I listened to Glenn Greenwald on NPR today on killing Osama bin Laden. Made me want to punch small, furry animals.

124

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 9, 2011 1:45:03pm

re: #123 Idle Drifter

I listened to Glenn Greenwald on NPR today on killing Osama bin Laden. Made me want to punch small, furry animals.

What have the small, furry animals ever done to you?

125

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:45:34pm

re: #122 Decatur Deb

Ah--yes. Tried to carve someone up IIRC.

I believe he fought a pistol duel over the insult....I think if he was still married he didn't know it

126

CuriousLurker Mon, May 9, 2011 1:46:37pm

re: #82 reine.de.tout

I know this, and I thank you.
Overreacted, I did.
Lot going on.

No you didn't. If SJ had said wingnuts I'd have agreed with him, but he didn't. I would've felt the same way you did, I just probably wouldn't have said anything as being Muslim has given me extra scales when it comes to generalizations. ;o)

127

Targetpractice Mon, May 9, 2011 1:46:53pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

What have the small, furry animals ever done to you?

Well, the rabbits living under my front porch like to eat the leafs off the plants in my vegetable garden. That reason enough?

128

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:47:17pm

re: #125 albusteve

I believe he fought a pistol duel over the insult...I think if he was still married he didn't know it

It was truly hard to do paperwork on the frontier then--that's why we had provisions for common-law marriages.

129

Idle Drifter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:47:33pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

What have the small, furry animals ever done to you?

Well they are delicious and they have been know to destroy land resources if kept unchecked. No, punching them would be wrong in this case though punching Greenwald would make me feel better.

130

makeitstop Mon, May 9, 2011 1:48:17pm

re: #118 albusteve

Pakistan's prime minister warned the United States Monday that his country could respond to any future U.S. raids on its soil with "full force," in the latest escalation of rhetoric in the wake of Usama bin Laden's death.

I'm shaking in my boots...we obviously have dire problems with Pakistan and I don't want to see the US sucked in any deeper

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The administration should tell them to STFU - in the most diplomatic terms possible, of course.

Or we may start looking into exactly who let him move into Abbotobad and live there undisturbed for six years.

131

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:49:32pm

re: #127 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, the rabbits living under my front porch like to eat the leafs off the plants in my vegetable garden. That reason enough?

They're just storing the energy for you. In the fall you'll have veggies on the hoof, so to speak.

132

Max Mon, May 9, 2011 1:49:36pm

re: #126 CuriousLurker

No you didn't. If SJ had said wingnuts I'd have agreed with him, but he didn't. I would've felt the same way you did, I just probably wouldn't have said anything as being Muslim has given me extra scales when it comes to generalizations. ;o)

An extra set of scales comes with being passionate about religion and/or politics.

133

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, May 9, 2011 1:49:39pm

re: #125 albusteve

I believe he fought a pistol duel over the insult...I think if he was still married he didn't know it

It wasn't him. It was Mrs. Jackson. Her (apparently abusive) first husband had not obtained a divorce and she thought he had.

Or something like that.

134

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:49:42pm

re: #128 Decatur Deb

It was truly hard to do paperwork on the frontier then--that's why we had provisions for common-law marriages.

his political opponents dragged out the issue during his campaign and caught him unawares

135

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:50:05pm

re: #130 makeitstop

The administration should tell them to STFU - in the most diplomatic terms possible, of course...

Just put it on the 'Comment' line of the next billion-dollar check.

136

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:51:52pm

re: #133 EmmmieG

It wasn't him. It was Mrs. Jackson. Her (apparently abusive) first husband had not obtained a divorce and she thought he had.

Or something like that.

that sounds like the story now that I think about it....it was the abuse heaped upon her that drove Andy to violence

137

CuriousLurker Mon, May 9, 2011 1:52:05pm

re: #132 Max D. Reinhardt

An extra set of scales comes with being passionate about religion and/or politics.

True that. :)

138

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:52:07pm

Fury little animal.

139

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:52:48pm

re: #132 Max D. Reinhardt

An extra set of scales comes with being passionate about religion and/or politics.

I find it helps to have scales like sharks' teeth. When one set is worn out and beat up a new set is ready to take its place.

Sometimes it requires a little down time though...

140

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 1:53:24pm

re: #131 b_sharp

They're just storing the energy for you. In the fall you'll have veggies on the hoof, so to speak.

After college, we tried to raise rabbits as part of our "Five Acres and Independence". Freakn' comedy of errors.

141

celticdragon Mon, May 9, 2011 1:53:35pm

re: #71 Charles

Major traffic coming from Reddit -- we're #5 on the front page now.

[Link: www.reddit.com...]

Very cool.

142

CuriousLurker Mon, May 9, 2011 1:53:48pm

re: #139 prononymous

I find it helps to have scales like sharks' teeth. When one set is worn out and beat up a new set is ready to take its place.

Sometimes it requires a little down time though...

LOL! QFT

143

HappyWarrior Mon, May 9, 2011 1:54:00pm

re: #115 Lidane

BTW, Hitchens just tore Chomsky a new one over OBL:

Chomsky's Follies:The professor's pronouncements about Osama Bin Laden are stupid and ignorant

And that is why I lke Hitch. Nailed it.

144

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:54:11pm

re: #139 prononymous

I find it helps to have scales like sharks' teeth. When one set is worn out and beat up a new set is ready to take its place.

Sometimes it requires a little down time though...

Can I mail you some Cichlids?

145

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:54:57pm

re: #144 b_sharp

Can I mail you some Cichlids?

No. :/

146

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:55:42pm

re: #145 prononymous

No. :/

Meany.

147

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:56:43pm

If it's not salty it must be faulty.

Or something like that.

148

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 1:56:59pm

Chaz Bono: I don't doubt I was born this way

this must be a hell of a story

[Link: marquee.blogs.cnn.com...]

149

iossarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:57:20pm

re: #143 HappyWarrior

And that is why I lke Hitch. Nailed it.

I disagree. Hitchens is entirely right about the stupidity of claiming that we don't "know" who was behind 9/11. On the other hand, his argument concerning moral equivalence is facile and essentially boils down to "because I say so and can write good".

I do think that a case can be made that taking out Obama was both morally justifiable and legal, but it hasn't been convincingly done yet to my knowledge and it certainly hasn't been done by Hitchens here. Lumping that argument together with the much cruder one around 9/11 trutherism doesn't do anyone any favors.

150

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 1:58:17pm

re: #147 prononymous

If it's not salty it must be faulty.

Or something like that.

I guess I'll feed them to the cats.

151

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 1:59:22pm

re: #150 b_sharp

I guess I'll feed them to the cats.

I'd take them if I had any freshwater tanks with space. But alas, I'm all marine now.

152

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 1:59:30pm

re: #148 albusteve

There. Is. Absolutely. No. Doubt.

153

reine.de.tout Mon, May 9, 2011 1:59:57pm

re: #126 CuriousLurker

No you didn't. If SJ had said wingnuts I'd have agreed with him, but he didn't. I would've felt the same way you did, I just probably wouldn't have said anything as being Muslim has given me extra scales when it comes to generalizations. ;o)

:-)
I bet it has.

154

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 2:00:29pm

re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There. Is. Absolutely. No. Doubt.

I have no clue as to such internal turmoil
my sympathies to this person

155

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, May 9, 2011 2:01:20pm

re: #154 albusteve

Can't begin to imagine. As my mother said, "Who would choose this?"

156

Sol Berdinowitz Mon, May 9, 2011 2:05:48pm

I am beginning to see the political savvy of Obama letting the birther thing trail on and on. Now the right wing has so much political capital invested in it that it has a life of its own.

A life that is an embarassment to all but the most extreme wing of the party.

So this was the "trap" that Karl Rove was trying to warn them about.

Hoist by their own petard.

(is "hoist by their own petard" politically correct or should we say that they have been "explosively challenged"?)

157

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 2:06:40pm

ABQ
82deg
dry as a bone 7% humidity
wind howlin up to 35mph gusts
dust all over the valley....
BARTENDER!

158

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:06:58pm

re: #150 b_sharp

I guess I'll feed them to the cats.

Some pet stores will take them for store credit. And if they also have cat supplies that could work out nicely. Or you could put an ad on craigslist. Or feed them to your cats, though I can't advise on how dangerous that might be with some species having spines, etc. But whatever you do, do not flush them alive or release them into the local water supply, please.

159

Renaissance_Man Mon, May 9, 2011 2:07:34pm

re: #117 publicityStunted

Just look at the difference between "Staunch Conservatives" and "Main Street Republicans"

Too bad it's the former who control the GOP :(

That's actually a great graphic.

There's a big label and branding issue at the moment. Labels and brands are so integral to the American, and to a lesser extent the human, way of thinking that the battle over what label you have, what brand you identify with, and what other people mean by that brand is a huge one.

Consider the problem at hand, that of the Conservative cult. It is obvious to everyone that only a very few of those who consider themselves conservative here on LGF have anything in common with members of this cult. They know it, we all know it. Yet both use the same word - conservative - as their label and brand. Moreover, both lay claim to that brand in the public sphere of usage; that is, both kinds of people expect that when others use the word 'conservative', they mean them. Now what? It's like apples and oranges, but instead of having the words for apples and oranges, we have to refer to these two very different things as 'fruit'.

There's no easy solution, because American culture does not give up brands easily. Brand loyalty is much more important here than elsewhere - it's key to one's very identity. 'I'm a Chrysler guy.' 'I'm an Old Spice guy.' 'I'm a Steelers fan.' 'I'm a Republican.' 'I'm a Democrat.' And so on. We know ourselves by the labels we identify with, and we expect others to know us by those labels too. Now, I understand certain things by the word 'conservative'. None of those things are associated with the Conservative cultists. But what I personally think doesn't change the public sphere of usage. I have to understand that if I use the word 'conservative' in communication, others will understand that to mean something, and unfortunately, I think that the battle for brand recognition is being won by FOX and the like, rather than what conservatism actually is. If patterns continue much as they have been, in ten years 'socialism' will mean something different in the public sphere too, at least here in the US, where brand loyalty and brand recognition is relentlessly built every day.

I don't really have a solution. I just know that I am careful about using words that I know are brands, rather than just words. 'Conservative' is one. If someone says, "I'm a conservative" to me, I have to consider a lot of context to understand what the word means, because it's a brand, and I have to know what it means to him.

160

wrenchwench Mon, May 9, 2011 2:10:30pm

re: #159 Renaissance_Man

tl;ria;gid

[too long; (I) read it anyway; glad I did]

161

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 2:12:10pm

re: #157 albusteve

ABQ
82deg
dry as a bone 7% humidity
wind howlin up to 35mph gusts
dust all over the valley...
BARTENDER!

Not a good day to plant fuschias.

Image: fuschia.jpg

162

CuriousLurker Mon, May 9, 2011 2:12:26pm

re: #159 Renaissance_Man

Well said.

163

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 2:12:51pm

re: #159 Renaissance_Man

Blues and Greens--

A Fable of Science and Politics

[Link: lesswrong.com...]

164

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 2:13:08pm

re: #155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Can't begin to imagine. As my mother said, "Who would choose this?"

That's not a nice thing to say at your son's wedding.
//

165

Charles Johnson Mon, May 9, 2011 2:13:12pm

We're now at #4 on Reddit. Just might get to #1. Go baby go!

166

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:13:55pm

re: #158 prononymous

Some pet stores will take them for store credit. And if they also have cat supplies that could work out nicely. Or you could put an ad on craigslist. Or feed them to your cats, though I can't advise on how dangerous that might be with some species having spines, etc. But whatever you do, do not flush them alive or release them into the local water supply, please.

I won't feed them to the cats.

I've been trying to pawn them off on my brother. He has a 60 gal tank with a Neon Tetra, a Beta and a couple of cat fish. I told him my three Cichlids would be happier in his tank than in mine, but he's afraid they'd eat his Tetra and Beta (he's right of course).

They're just too damned big for my 20gal and I've lost all interest.

I'll take them to the local pet store.

167

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:14:46pm

re: #157 albusteve

ABQ
82deg
dry as a bone 7% humidity
wind howlin up to 35mph gusts
dust all over the valley...
BARTENDER!

I just turned on the water for the swamp cooler and opened up certain windows. It's windy enough that I'm saving electricity by not having to run the blower.

168

darthstar Mon, May 9, 2011 2:15:15pm

re: #165 Charles

We're now at #4 on Reddit. Just might get to #1. Go baby go!

Number 1 deserves some credit. CNN is irresponsible in conflating Sikhs with bin Laden.

169

Renaissance_Man Mon, May 9, 2011 2:16:59pm

re: #163 Decatur Deb

Blues and Greens--

A Fable of Science and Politics

[Link: lesswrong.com...]

It's not quite the same topic, but it's a great story.

170

wrenchwench Mon, May 9, 2011 2:17:01pm

re: #167 prononymous

I just turned on the water for the swamp cooler and opened up certain windows. It's windy enough that I'm saving electricity by not having to run the blower.

I'm waiting for a Monday with winds below 30 mph so I can go up on the roof and clean my swamp cooler (because I'm closed Mondays, but at the shop.) I hope I get one before it gets too hot.

171

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:17:45pm

re: #170 wrenchwench

I'm waiting for a Monday with winds below 30 mph so I can go up on the roof and clean my swamp cooler (because I'm closed Mondays, but at the shop.) I hope I get one before it gets too hot.

Not at this rate... :(

172

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:18:23pm

re: #160 wrenchwench

tl;ria;gid

[too long; (I) read it anyway; glad I did]

[= too long; I

173

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 2:18:35pm

re: #167 prononymous

I just turned on the water for the swamp cooler and opened up certain windows. It's windy enough that I'm saving electricity by not having to run the blower.

I have a terrible habit of leaving my place wide open all day and night...what a stupid blunder, but I'm locked down at present

174

wrenchwench Mon, May 9, 2011 2:19:15pm

re: #172 b_sharp

[= too long; I

Too short; read it anyway, got confused

175

Killgore Trout Mon, May 9, 2011 2:19:35pm

re: #165 Charles

We're now at #4 on Reddit. Just might get to #1. Go baby go!

The referrers page doesn't have a hit counter anymore but that's a lot of traffic.

176

Decatur Deb Mon, May 9, 2011 2:21:03pm

re: #169 Renaissance_Man

It's not quite the same topic, but it's a great story.

Yeah--it looked in too much detail for the modern analog, but the B&Gs had the lock on 'branding'.

177

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:22:34pm

re: #160 wrenchwench

tl;ria;gid

[too long; (I) read it anyway; glad I did]

Try again.

for [I = too long; I == read it anyway; glad I++ did] {
makes a lot of sense;
}

178

McSpiff Mon, May 9, 2011 2:23:09pm

re: #165 Charles

We're now at #4 on Reddit. Just might get to #1. Go baby go!

Upvoted

179

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:25:25pm

re: #166 b_sharp

Yeah, unwanted pets can be a real drag. You feel responsible for them but that starts to breed resentment. Marine aquariums can be among the worst in that regard.

180

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 2:26:12pm

re: #178 McSpiff

Corruption and backroom dealings!

181

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:30:28pm

re: #166 b_sharp

Actually, if your brother is interested but doesn't want his current fish eaten there might be a solution. The tetras and beta will be plenty happy in a smaller tank so you can just run a small tank off the big one connected by tubing. Then the chiclids would get the large space to grow in and the beta and tetras could still live happily. And they would all share the same filtration so he'd only have to get a small tank and hook them up.

182

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:35:33pm

re: #181 prononymous

Actually, if your brother is interested but doesn't want his current fish eaten there might be a solution. The tetras and beta will be plenty happy in a smaller tank so you can just run a small tank off the big one connected by tubing. Then the chiclids would get the large space to grow in and the beta and tetras could still live happily. And they would all share the same filtration so he'd only have to get a small tank and hook them up.

Brilliant.
I'll give him my tank for the space under his tank along with a couple of submersible pumps and an auto valve. We should be able to rig up a deadman fail safe.

183

Lidane Mon, May 9, 2011 2:38:35pm

re: #181 prononymous

Actually, if your brother is interested but doesn't want his current fish eaten there might be a solution. The tetras and beta will be plenty happy in a smaller tank so you can just run a small tank off the big one connected by tubing. Then the chiclids would get the large space to grow in and the beta and tetras could still live happily. And they would all share the same filtration so he'd only have to get a small tank and hook them up.

Wouldn't it be possible to take the tanks and filtration system that the chiclids are currently in over, connect it to the one that the tetras and beta are in, then switch the fish around? Put the tetras and beta in the tank that the chiclids are in and vice versa?

I don't know anything about fish or keeping aquariums, so I'm genuinely curious. It seems like this could be fixed fairly easily by hooking the tanks to each other and switching the fish, but I don't know.

184

makeitstop Mon, May 9, 2011 2:39:08pm

This won't end well: Pakistanis name CIA station chief; U.S. suspects retaliation

185

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:39:56pm

re: #182 b_sharp

Brilliant.
I'll give him my tank for the space under his tank along with a couple of submersible pumps and an auto valve. We should be able to rig up a deadman fail safe.

If you are going to put one tank under the other I would look into an overflow type system. They are common in marine aquariums because saltwater tanks are often run with a sump. Your local pet store might even have the equipment in kit form.

But just be real careful and do your research. You don't want to end up with 60 gallons of water on the floor.

186

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 2:41:15pm

re: #184 makeitstop

This won't end well: Pakistanis name CIA station chief; U.S. suspects retaliation

Pakistan TV unmasks supposed top CIA agent but reportedly gets it wrong

187

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:41:36pm

re: #183 Lidane

Wouldn't it be possible to take the tanks and filtration system that the chiclids are currently in over, connect it to the one that the tetras and beta are in, then switch the fish around? Put the tetras and beta in the tank that the chiclids are in and vice versa?

I don't know anything about fish or keeping aquariums, so I'm genuinely curious. It seems like this could be fixed fairly easily by hooking the tanks to each other and switching the fish, but I don't know.

That's pretty much what I'm going to convince him to do. Sometimes it's handy being the oldest brother, I can convince my siblings to do pretty much anything.

188

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:41:56pm

re: #183 Lidane

Yeah, something like this could work. Just hook the two existing tanks together and swap the chiclids into the larger tank and the others (except the catfish) into the smaller.

But the tank being moved would still have to be drained. Moving a full tank is asking for a seam to burst.

189

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 2:42:41pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

things are getting interesting and crazy all of a sudden >

190

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 2:43:34pm

re: #189 windsagio

like they haven't been for the last week anyways of course.

191

Political Atheist Mon, May 9, 2011 2:44:11pm

re: #185 prononymous

If you are going to put one tank under the other I would look into an overflow type system. They are common in marine aquariums because saltwater tanks are often run with a sump. Your local pet store might even have the equipment in kit form.

But just be real careful and do your research. You don't want to end up with 60 gallons of water on the floor.

QFT
I used to urn a 100 gallon tank with sealed canister filters underneath. I had to watch carefully for seals, gaskets etc. Used a two headed pump designed for a film developing studio to move the water. Heck I even made one of the canisters do double duty by enclosing the heater to get it out of sight.

192

makeitstop Mon, May 9, 2011 2:44:53pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pakistan TV unmasks supposed top CIA agent but reportedly gets it wrong

Yeah, WaPo reported the typo as well.

I'm guessing the name was leaked by the one guy in the LAT photo - with the sign saying 'No to Amereca.'

193

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 2:45:25pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pakistan TV unmasks supposed top CIA agent but reportedly gets it wrong

people that fuck around with the CIA sometimes run into very bad luck...there is no upside to this exposure shit...push hard enough and something will give, like bone and tissue

194

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:47:09pm

re: #185 prononymous

If you are going to put one tank under the other I would look into an overflow type system. They are common in marine aquariums because saltwater tanks are often run with a sump. Your local pet store might even have the equipment in kit form.

But just be real careful and do your research. You don't want to end up with 60 gallons of water on the floor.

I have all kinds of project boxes, electronic sensors, relays, valves and pumps around. From the lower tank I can set the return valve to shut off if the water flow from the sending pumps stops for any reason, including a power outage.

195

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 2:48:03pm

Of course, another option is that Pakistan "outs" a decoy while the actual CIA chief keeps working as normal.

196

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, May 9, 2011 2:48:30pm

re: #58 reine.de.tout

Really?

I guess I'm beginning to figure out where I stand here, then.
Unwelcome.

Don't let it get to you friend. It's just more of the typical, infantile stereotyping from the usual source.

197

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:49:08pm

re: #191 Rightwingconspirator

QFT
I used to urn a 100 gallon tank with sealed canister filters underneath. I had to watch carefully for seals, gaskets etc. Used a two headed pump designed for a film developing studio to move the water. Heck I even made one of the canisters do double duty by enclosing the heater to get it out of sight.

Smart set up.

198

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 2:50:03pm

re: #195 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Of course, another option is that Pakistan "outs" a decoy while the actual CIA chief keeps working as normal.

to what end?

199

b_sharp Mon, May 9, 2011 2:50:32pm

BBL.

200

Killgore Trout Mon, May 9, 2011 2:50:34pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pakistan TV unmasks supposed top CIA agent but reportedly gets it wrong

Certain elements in Pakistan are getting nervous about the information on ISI's involvement in terrorism which are are going to share with India....
As U.S.-Pakistan relations tense up, Obama speaks to India’s PM

201

Killgore Trout Mon, May 9, 2011 2:51:44pm

kitten vs a scary thing

Youtube Video

202

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 2:52:24pm

re: #198 albusteve

to what end?

They get their "revenge" on the the US by outing an operative, saving face with their public, while at the same time they keep working behind the scenes and not pissing us off more.

Just a theory.

203

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 2:52:49pm

re: #194 b_sharp

I have all kinds of project boxes, electronic sensors, relays, valves and pumps around. From the lower tank I can set the return valve to shut off if the water flow from the sending pumps stops for any reason, including a power outage.

Actually you don't need a shutoff switch with a well designed overflow system. The overflow is set so it is at the water level in the top tank (it determines the water level). You have a pump in the lower tank that pumps water up to the top tank (be sure to incorporate anti-siphon holes in the return just above the water level of the top tank). As water fills the top tank anything that goes above the level of the overflow drains out and back down to the lower tank. If the power goes out then the pump simply stops pumping water into the top tank. The water in the return line drains into the bottom tank but the anti-siphon holes break any siphon and no more water flows from either tank.

204

HappyWarrior Mon, May 9, 2011 2:53:43pm

[Link: www.salon.com...]
Haha Rick Santorum is a trip.

205

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 2:56:01pm

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They're subject to allegations that they're puppets of the US. Doing something like this would, yeah, save face.

206

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 2:58:28pm

re: #205 windsagio

They're subject to allegations that they're puppets of the US. Doing something like this would, yeah, save face.

says who?...is that their motive, to save face?...and why would the CIA or State allow such a thing?....you can't just let agents be outed because the host country is a fucked up piece of junk....you don't make sense

207

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 2:59:27pm

re: #206 albusteve

well it sounds like they maybe got it wrong in this case.

But if they have the information, how exactly do you stop them?

208

Achilles Tang Mon, May 9, 2011 3:02:07pm

re: #205 windsagio

They're subject to allegations that they're puppets of the US. Doing something like this would, yeah, save face.

Save face, like Rove did when he outed Valerie Plame? Revenge sound better.

209

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 3:02:27pm

re: #207 windsagio

well it sounds like they maybe got it wrong in this case.

But if they have the information, how exactly do you stop them?

kill them if necessary....this 'outing' shit is no small thing, it's a death sentence...and the CIA would never release an agent to the whim of some person...if the info was obtained illegally, that is a huge and omportant breech of security...I don't even get what this is all about...it's a media thing, not real meat world stuff

210

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 3:02:52pm

re: #206 albusteve

says who?...is that their motive, to save face?...and why would the CIA or State allow such a thing?...you can't just let agents be outed because the host country is a fucked up piece of junk...you don't make sense

If Pakistan wanted to, they could expel all known US government employees. Instead, a newspaper releases the name as a a scoop, and its already being questioned as bad information.

211

Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, May 9, 2011 3:04:45pm

re: #203 prononymous

I realize it might be hard to visualize from my description, I can clarify if needed. Here is a link that describes what I am talking about. Instead of a sump/refugium you'd simply have another tank.

[Link: www.melevsreef.com...]

212

albusteve Mon, May 9, 2011 3:05:05pm

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If Pakistan wanted to, they could expel all known US government employees. Instead, a newspaper releases the name as a a scoop, and its already being questioned as bad information.

why would Pakistan expel all these people?....they'd be tossing away a super fortune and even put their own lives at risk...none of this is making any sense....some neophyte is blabbing nonsense

213

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 3:05:27pm

re: #209 albusteve

somebody wants to play it looks like :D

I'm game Steve!
re: #208 Naso Tang

it's different. In Pakistan it would be seen as asserting their sovereignty. The population there gets really really upset about hte idea of CIA types on their soil.

214

Political Atheist Mon, May 9, 2011 3:06:07pm

re: #208 Naso Tang

Save face, like Rove did when he outed Valerie Plame? Revenge sound better.

I thought Armitage did that...

215

Achilles Tang Mon, May 9, 2011 3:06:43pm

re: #210 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The ISI must know who the main CIA contact is, otherwise how can they have any cooperation?

Maybe some mid level operative, who was helping UBL, leaked a name he thought was correct.

216

Kragar Mon, May 9, 2011 3:09:18pm

re: #215 Naso Tang

The ISI must know who the main CIA contact is, otherwise how can they have any cooperation?

Maybe some mid level operative, who was helping UBL, leaked a name he thought was correct.

No clue, I'm just arguing that while Pakistan naming a CIA operative is bad, its not the worst outcome and might actually be part of larger negotiations or operations.

217

Achilles Tang Mon, May 9, 2011 3:10:53pm

re: #214 Rightwingconspirator

I thought Armitage did that...

Rove probably told Armitage and Rove was a hair away from being charged. He got off because he quickly took back some earlier testimony that would have been proved a lie, and the correction was accepted.

218

Achilles Tang Mon, May 9, 2011 3:12:57pm

re: #213 windsagio

somebody wants to play it looks like :D

I'm game Steve!
re: #208 Naso Tang

it's different. In Pakistan it would be seen as asserting their sovereignty. The population there gets really really upset about hte idea of CIA types on their soil.

In this case revenge means save face, even while they shoot themselves in the foot as usual.

219

windsagio Mon, May 9, 2011 3:15:28pm

re: #218 Naso Tang

funny how dumb political expediency decisions usually are when they come out at the end.

You're right that the Plame situation is a good analogue

220

Political Atheist Mon, May 9, 2011 5:01:14pm

re: #13 SpaceJesus

Republicans: 30% racist and stupid, 70% just racist

Shoulda left it at wingnut SJ.

221

butterick Tue, May 10, 2011 7:18:44am

I propose that we refer to them as "stillbirthers" or "the stillborn"

Spy Mode Auto

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