John McCain: The Claim That Waterboarding Helped Find Bin Laden is ‘False’

We found bin Laden with ‘standard, noncoercive means’
US News • Views: 31,543

John McCain has a piece in the Washington Post today, definitively refuting the Republican talking point that torture helped find Osama bin Laden: Bin Laden’s death and the debate over torture.

Former attorney general Michael Mukasey recently claimed that “the intelligence that led to bin Laden . . . began with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who broke like a dam under the pressure of harsh interrogation techniques that included waterboarding. He loosed a torrent of information — including eventually the nickname of a trusted courier of bin Laden.” That is false.

I asked CIA Director Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the following: The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a disclosure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times. The first mention of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nickname of the al-Qaeda courier who ultimately led us to bin Laden — as well as a description of him as an important member of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another country, who we believe was not tortured. None of the three detainees who were waterboarded provided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his whereabouts or an accurate description of his role in al-Qaeda.

In fact, the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information. He specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means.

UPDATE at 5/12/11 11:03:14 am

McCain followed up later with a forceful speech on the floor of the Senate.

Youtube Video

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62 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:34:29am

And the wingnuts turn on McCain in 5...4...3...

2 McSpiff  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:34:51am

Thank you again (what I think is the) Real John McCain.

3 nines09  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:35:03am

First intelligent thing he's said in quite a while. I guess he had an attack of sense.

4 makeitstop  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:35:13am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the wingnuts turn on McCain in 5...4...3...

RINO!!

5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:35:42am

re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And the wingnuts turn on McCain in 5...4...3...

you kidding they turned on him when he lost. This is the last hurrah for McCain, he'll most likely have a primary challenger when he runs again and now he's trying to make right after all the shit he pulled during the '08 election

6 Walter L. Newton  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:35:51am

Should put that to bed... won't... but should.

7 RanchTooth  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:37:23am

Wingnuts: Obama water boarded McCain to say torture was ineffective and that OBL was killed. He'll get you next!!!!!!!!/

8 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:37:44am

re: #5 Dreggas

you kidding they turned on him when he lost. This is the last hurrah for McCain, he'll most likely have a primary challenger when he runs again and now he's trying to make right after all the shit he pulled during the '08 election

They turned their back on him before, now they'll circle back for the kill.

9 Bulworth  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:38:33am

Official Wingnut Response To Killing OBL: He wasn't all that important; Bush really got him; Torture!!

10 recusancy  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:38:43am

Some people just won't let go of their Jack Bauer fantasies.

11 theheat  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:44:52am

Why the hell would anyone share that kind of information with him, or anyone else? I think McCain's been talking to lampposts again.

12 lawhawk  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:45:50am

So, he's giving more weight to Panetta's view of events over that of then AG Mike Mukasey. Panetta could turn out to be wrong on this - or not.

Which one of them are you going to believe. McCain says he believes Panetta's version of events, which also conveniently falls into his own view on torture - which is born of personal experience at the hands of the North Vietnamese.

13 SidewaysQuark  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:46:21am

I find the claims that waterboarding isn't torture to be ridiculous.

If it wasn't torture, it wouldn't be effective.

14 recusancy  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:47:54am

re: #13 SidewaysQuark

I find the claims that waterboarding isn't torture to be ridiculous.

If it wasn't torture, it wouldn't be effective.

It's not effective. They'll tell you what you want to hear be it true or not.

15 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:47:57am

re: #11 theheat

Why the hell would anyone share that kind of information with him, or anyone else? I think McCain's been talking to lampposts again.

Because he is a senior member of the Senate Armed Services Committee

16 albusteve  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:48:13am

re: #11 theheat

Why the hell would anyone share that kind of information with him, or anyone else? I think McCain's been talking to lampposts again.

I don't think any of this is a secret, but an ex prisoner and distinguished senator makes a good mouthpiece foe Panetta...probably had this convo passing by in a hallway

17 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:48:29am

re: #13 SidewaysQuark

I find the claims that waterboarding isn't torture to be ridiculous.

If it wasn't torture, it wouldn't be effective.

And apparently, it wasn't that effective anyways.

18 Locker  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:48:42am

While a good statement it won't change anything. It's not like Republicans are clueless about the truth. There is absolutely no interest in the truth as the focus is entirely on attack. Make it up, fabricate, lie, twist, spin, deny and then rinse and repeat.

19 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:49:32am

I guess I can now have some respect for Mccain. If he would retire today, I would give him a parade.

20 Semper Fi  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:50:44am

re: #5 Dreggas

you kidding they turned on him when he lost. This is the last hurrah for McCain, he'll most likely have a primary challenger when he runs again and now he's trying to make right after all the shit he pulled during the '08 election

I was strongly for McCain in '08 but admittedly as election day drew nearer I became less and less zealous. Too late.

21 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:53:57am

Wow it's like in Return of the Jedi when Darth Vader threw Emperor Palpatine into that convienently placed shaft revealing that beneath that hardened shell of an old man who was thought to have given up all shred of nobility in his quest for power, there actually remains some base human decency...

22 efuseakay  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:57:01am

Freepers are all over this calling McCain "Dopey". Oh. And waterboarding is not torture!

23 BongCrodny  Thu, May 12, 2011 10:59:59am

I wrote this in response to recusancy in the thread below, but I think it's just as appropriate here.


re: #50 recusancy

It's not being sympathetic to people who have been tortured. It's holding America to a high moral standard. We can't be exceptional if we're as low as the enemy.


Some sites were crowing over the rumors that "harsh interrogation" allegedly produced results in locating bin Laden. You read between the lines, and it was like they were advocating or even anticipating the use of torture 24-7.

I'm really lost over the idea that torture seems to be a good thing.

24 simoom  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:00:21am

Sen. McCain's floor speech on this topic (from today):

~22mins
25 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:01:34am

re: #22 efuseakay

Freepers are all over this calling McCain "Dopey". Oh. And waterboarding is not torture!

Yeah!!! What would McCain know about torture anyways?!
///

26 simoom  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:02:13am

re: #24 simoom

Sen. McCain's floor speech on this topic (from today):

[Video]~22mins

trascript: [Link: mccain.senate.gov...]

27 BongCrodny  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:02:48am

re: #22 efuseakay

Freepers are all over this calling McCain "Dopey". Oh. And waterboarding is not torture!


Not one atom in my body is surprised.

28 SidewaysQuark  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:10:03am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And apparently, it wasn't that effective anyways.

Well, just saying, it wouldn't make people talk (accurately or inaccurately) if it was like sitting in a comfy chair.

29 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:13:32am

re: #28 SidewaysQuark

Well, just saying, it wouldn't make people talk (accurately or inaccurately) if it was like sitting in a comfy chair.

Actually, a comfy chair is probably more effective.

30 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:14:10am

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, a comfy chair is probably more effective.

Comfy chair + sleep deprivation

31 jamesfirecat  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:14:31am

re: #28 SidewaysQuark

Well, just saying, it wouldn't make people talk (accurately or inaccurately) if it was like sitting in a comfy chair.

Ximinez: Now, old woman -- you are accused of heresy on three counts -- heresy by thought, heresy by word, heresy by deed, and heresy by action -- *four* counts. Do you confess?
Wilde: I don't understand what I'm accused of.
Ximinez: Ha! Then we'll make you understand! Biggles! Fetch...THE CUSHIONS!

[JARRING CHORD]

[Biggles holds out two ordinary modern household cushions]

Biggles: Here they are, lord.
Ximinez: Now, old lady -- you have one last chance. Confess the heinous sin of heresy, reject the works of the ungodly -- *two* last chances. And you shall be free -- *three* last chances. You have three last chances, the nature of which I have divulged in my previous utterance.
Wilde: I don't know what you're talking about.
Ximinez: Right! If that's the way you want it -- Cardinal! Poke her with the soft cushions!

[Biggles carries out this rather pathetic torture]

Ximinez: Confess! Confess! Confess!
Biggles: It doesn't seem to be hurting her, lord.
Ximinez: Have you got all the stuffing up one end?
Biggles: Yes, lord.
Ximinez [angrily hurling away the cushions]: Hm! She is made of harder stuff! Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!

32 iossarian  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:17:35am

re: #31 jamesfirecat

YOU! Cake... or DEATH?

Um, cake please.

VERY WELL! Give him cake. (aside) We're going to run out at this rate.

33 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:18:19am

re: #32 iossarian

YOU! Cake... or DEATH?

Um, cake please.

VERY WELL! Give him cake. (aside) We're going to run out at this rate.

I'll have the chicken.

34 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:19:12am

re: #30 Alouette

Comfy chair + sleep deprivation

and the Ludovico treatment.

35 Lidane  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:23:21am

re: #3 nines09

First intelligent thing he's said in quite a while. I guess he had an attack of sense.

Yeah, this.

36 Charles Johnson  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:26:36am

re: #12 lawhawk

So, he's giving more weight to Panetta's view of events over that of then AG Mike Mukasey. Panetta could turn out to be wrong on this - or not.

Which one of them are you going to believe. McCain says he believes Panetta's version of events, which also conveniently falls into his own view on torture - which is born of personal experience at the hands of the North Vietnamese.

When you look at the two accounts, though, you see that Mukasey's claims are pretty vague and unspecific, while McCain's account is detailed and very specific. I tend to think McCain's version is closer to the truth here.

37 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:27:48am

re: #35 Lidane

Yeah, this.

No, just very bad memories of when he was on the receiving end as a POW. No matter how bad he got, he's never, so far as I am aware, given comfort to those who think torture is ever acceptable.

38 Lidane  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:29:43am

re: #37 wlewisiii

No, just very bad memories of when he was on the receiving end as a POW. No matter how bad he got, he's never, so far as I am aware, given comfort to those who think torture is ever acceptable.

I think it's both. He has very clear memories of what he went through. He's also spent the last three years since losing the election pandering to the wingnuts and nutjobs, so he had an attack of sense, pushing back against this latest garbage from the loons.

39 AK-47%  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:34:05am

re: #31 jamesfirecat

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as...

waterboarding

cables attached to the genitals

naked dogpiling

and

"Enter Sandman" by Metallica.


NO! NOT METALLICA!!!!

40 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:34:43am

re: #39 ralphieboy

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as...

waterboarding

cables attached to the genitals

naked dogpiling

and

"Enter Sandman" by Metallica.

NO! NOT METALLICA!!!

OK then, how about Justin Bieber?

41 HappyWarrior  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:35:09am

And that's the John McCain I quoted in a paper. Honestly, I would love to see those who say waterboarding isn't torture or closer to a fraternity gag undergo then maybe they wouldn't find it so damn funny. We're a country that prosecuted Axis war criminals for doing this. Honestly, the best two Republicans on this issue in the SEnate have been Graham and McCain both guys who actually understand the military rather than those who live in a fantasy world.

42 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:35:18am

re: #40 Alouette

OK then, how about Justin Bieber?

You just had to bring her into this.

43 sattv4u2  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:35:46am

re: #39 ralphieboy

Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as...

waterboarding

cables attached to the genitals

naked dogpiling

and

"Enter Sandman" by Metallica.

NO! NOT METALLICA!!!

Except for the waterboarding, sounds like a weekend at a frat house!
/

44 Ming  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:44:20am

I still think McCain really should apologize publicly for his inadequate (probably non-existent) vetting of Sarah Palin as his running mate in 2008, because this was pure recklessness with national security. That said, I admire him very much for publicly acknowledging that torture was not the key to gathering the info that enabled us to find Osama bin Laden. I used to really like McCain, and I hope that he redeems himself some day with an apology about Sarah Palin.

45 AK-47%  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:45:14am

Time for some conservatively correct history:

46 AK-47%  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:46:38am

re: #44 Ming

He had no choice. The right wing of the party was going to bail on him for his liberal record on social issues, and taking Sarah was his quid pro quo for their support.

They are the people who should have vetted her a bit more closely before foisting him on his campaign.

47 engineer cat  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:47:39am

a teahadi blogger reports on this fragging festival:

The WSJ editorial page has a devastating column blasting Mitt Romney for his vision of the role of government based on Romneycare. Meanwhile, Jennifer Rubin delivers the ultimate insult by saying that Romney is the Hillary Clinton of this election cycle. And Michael Barone takes umbrage at
descriptions of Mitt Romney as the GOP frontrunner and the cliché that
the GOP always nominates the last election's frontrunner.

dept of never interrupt your opponents when they're etc etc etc

48 Lidane  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:47:47am

re: #46 ralphieboy

He had no choice. The right wing of the party was going to bail on him for his liberal record on social issues, and taking Sarah was his quid pro quo for their support.

They are the people who should have vetted her a bit more closely before foisting him on his campaign.

She's white, Christian, Republican, and had a bunch of babies. What more did they need to know about her?

///

49 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:48:38am

Not surprising at all.

Senate Ethics Refers Ensign Case to DOJ, FEC

The panel has forwarded the evidence of criminal activities to the Department of Justice for further investigation, which it is required to do in any investigation that turns up evidence of criminal wrongdoing

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

50 AK-47%  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:51:31am

re: #48 Lidane

She's white, Christian, Republican, and had a bunch of babies. What more did they need to know about her?

///

I somehow think they believed she was just going to keep her mouth shut, look good at McCain's side be a bland canvas onto which the voters projected their ideals of what a good conservative candidate should be.

Then she opened her mouth...

51 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:52:56am

re: #47 engineer dog

a teahadi blogger reports on this fragging festival:

The WSJ editorial page has a devastating column blasting Mitt Romney for his vision of the role of government based on Romneycare. Meanwhile, Jennifer Rubin delivers the ultimate insult by saying that Romney is the Hillary Clinton of this election cycle. And Michael Barone takes umbrage at
descriptions of Mitt Romney as the GOP frontrunner and the cliché that
the GOP always nominates the last election's frontrunner.

dept of never interrupt your opponents when they're etc etc etc

Dept of Electing Republican Politicians.

DERP is here to help you.

52 engineer cat  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:53:52am

definitively refuting

since the testimony of war heroes and military interrogation experts that torture is ineffective doesn't seem to make any impression on some people, i ain't a wastin' my breath

to paraphrase groucho marx: what do you believe, an expert's opinion or some half baked notion some notorious gasbag pulled out of his ass?

53 SpaceJesus  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:54:08am

why oh why did you pick palin

54 allegro  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:54:15am

re: #50 ralphieboy

I somehow think they believed she was just going to keep her mouth shut, look good at McCain's side be a bland canvas onto which the voters projected their ideals of what a good conservative candidate should be.

Then she opened her mouth...

I think they also believed that she would automatically tie up women's votes simply due to her gender. They figured all those women who were supporting for Hillary would just switch right over. I mean, everyone knows that women don't actually, yanno, think or anything.//

55 Kragar  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:54:44am

re: #53 SpaceJesus

why oh why did you pick palin

He made the mistake of pandering to a dying party.

56 Semper Fi  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:57:04am

The chores await. It's noon and fun's over for a few hours.
Have a good one lizards.

57 AK-47%  Thu, May 12, 2011 11:57:36am

re: #54 allegro


Then the whole matter of Bristol's pregnancy came out and the mesage was clear: "I am gonna make her carry this loser's baby to term, and I will make your daughter do the same if she gets knock up by a loser!"

And voters fled in droves. Lots of people may oppose abortion in principle, but when it comes to the practical matter of their own daughter and that loser she is currently dating, well...

58 mr.fusion  Thu, May 12, 2011 12:00:07pm
In fact, the use of “enhanced interrogation techniques” on Khalid Sheik Mohammed produced false and misleading information. He specifically told his interrogators that Abu Ahmed had moved to Peshawar, got married and ceased his role as an al-Qaeda facilitator — none of which was true. According to the staff of the Senate intelligence committee, the best intelligence gained from a CIA detainee — information describing Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s real role in al-Qaeda and his true relationship to bin Laden — was obtained through standard, noncoercive means.

To me, torture is the easy answer. It's easy (and natural) to want to inflict physical pain on these people.

But revenge isn't our goal. Our goal is to keep America safe, and torturing captives makes achieving that goal much more difficult.

59 windsagio  Thu, May 12, 2011 12:19:16pm

Oh John, this is why I wanted to love you.

60 ElCapitanAmerica  Thu, May 12, 2011 12:38:53pm

This is the McCain I wanted to vote for last election, welcome back John.

Maybe all the craziness with the teabaggers woke him up, and he feels bad for forcing her on the world and is trying to make amends.

At the end of the day, we should listen to what the guy that has actually been tortured in service to our country, has to say on this topic.

61 sproingie  Thu, May 12, 2011 1:07:57pm

re: #21 jamesfirecat

Wow it's like in Return of the Jedi when Darth Vader threw Emperor Palpatine into that convienently placed shaft revealing that beneath that hardened shell of an old man who was thought to have given up all shred of nobility in his quest for power, there actually remains some base human decency...

Makes you think Joe Lieberman should watch his back if he stands near any open shafts with his fellow Senator...

62 Amory Blaine  Thu, May 12, 2011 1:30:07pm

Thank you senator. More of this please.


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