Serbian War Criminal Mladic Caught - Pamela Geller Inconsolable

Geller has been supporting Mladic and whitewashing his crimes for years

WorldMay 2011 • Views: 58,029

War criminal Ratko Mladic was arrested yesterday in Serbia, where he was hiding from justice under an assumed name. Time’s Mark Benjamin has this excerpt from Mladic’s indictment, with horrifying details of his massacre of thousands of Muslim prisoners.

Between 12 July and about 20 July 1995, thousands of Bosnian Muslim men were captured by, or surrendered to, Bosnian Serb Forces under the command and control of General Ratko MLADIC. Over 7,000 Bosnian Muslim prisoners captured in the area around Srebrenica were summarily executed from 13 July to 19 July 1995. Killings continued thereafter. From about 1 August 1995 through about 1 November 1995, VRS units under the command and control of General Ratko MLADIC participated in an organised and comprehensive effort to conceal the killings and executions of the Bosnian Muslims of Srebrenica by reburying, in isolated locations, bodies exhumed from mass graves.

“The Serbs dared to fight.”It’s important to note that one of the most relentless whitewashers of Mladic’s monstrous crimes is none other than anti-Muslim lunatic Pamela Geller, and the reason is obvious: Mladic slaughtered Muslims, and that makes him an ally of Geller, Robert Spencer, and the rest of their thuggish crowd.

In her usual weasely fashion, Geller tries to have it both ways; she cheers on Mladic for “daring to fight,” but at the same time posts numerous articles at her website denying the genocide at Srebrenica as “a lie.” For example:

CANADIAN PM STEVEN HARPER, LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD, VETOES BOSNIAN LIE RESOLUTION
ISLAMIC BOSNIA: “IT BEGAN WITH A LIE”

It’s easy to make fun of Pamela Geller, because she’s so completely deranged. But there’s absolutely nothing funny about her support for war criminals and mass murderers, or her denial of genocide.

And she continues to defend this butcher, even today: JULIA GORIN: “ROASTING MLADIC”.

Instead of admitting their terrible mistake, the dhimmi Western powers are digging in their heels and further prosecuting the Serbs in their sisyphean and thankless efforts to stop Islamic imperialism.

Look, there are no heroes in the Bosnian conflict, but the Muslim atrocities were far worse. The Serbs dared to fight. That’s what this is all about. As Gorin so succinctly put it, “They are guilty of ….. daring to answer war with war.” The question is, why would the Western powers send in troops and pave the way for a militant Islamic state in the heart of Europe? The catastrophic consequences have not yet manifested themselves, but they will impact the geopolitical landscape in what promises to be a bloody 21st century.

Just disgusting.

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121 comments

Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, May 27, 2011 9:43:24am

Justice delayed may be felt to be justice denied to some, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't happen.

I'm glad I don't have to sit through the discovery portion of this trial. I couldn't stomach it.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 9:47:33am

This man was a monster. Much of the violence and organized militancy of the Muslim world today can be laid at the feet of the horrors of that conflict and the refusal of Europe and America to do a damn thing about it for so very long.

Muslims were butchered there in crimes as grotesque as any genocide. It was clearly an attempted genocide, called ethnic cleansing. Women and children in mass graves. It should have been stopped sooner just because of that. Only because of that, but, we can look at Darfur or Rwanda and see how much the world really cares about actual genocides.

Other Muslims from around the world came to fight, organized, trained and became battle hardened against a fanatical and genocidal foe. It is not surprising that they came back angry and very good at fighting.

Catching war criminals and putting them to justice is always important. But this is one of the greatest cases of too little too late by the West and particularly cowardly Europeans in recent memory. We are still feeling the blowback.

Sheila Broflovski Fri, May 27, 2011 9:47:52am

I'm sure she gets all riled up over Holocaust deniers.

*spit*

thatthatisis Fri, May 27, 2011 9:48:07am

What a sad life Geller leads, to be so filled with hate, and rage, and a permanent sense of victimhood at the imagined hands of "them".

But being pathetic and sad does not excuse a human being from supporting the mass murder of innocents. That's when pathetic turns into disgusting.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 9:50:05am

From the link:

The majority of this group consisted of unarmed military personnel and civilians.

It's OK. They were Mooslims, eh Pammy?

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 9:50:32am

The top two comments from the Fox News story on this same event:

steveg57 [Moderator] 10 minutes ago
Why is he considered a butcher? He exterminated mooslims. Good for him!
He would have my vote for President
Like
2 people liked this.

In reply to this guy...

4gsltw [Moderator] 8 minutes ago in reply to steveg57
Instead, we have a islam!c terrorist sympathiser and supporter for president. Homeland Security should take obama into custody!
Like
2 people liked this

albusteve Fri, May 27, 2011 9:51:07am

this makes the infamous Malmedy massacre seem like a little disagreement...and to claim it didn't happen defies all the facts...it's not about Muslim imperialism, it's about illegal and immoral, deadly behavior....terrorism on a mass scale

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 9:52:14am

Wilder Napalm [Moderator] 1 hour ago
I say we give him 10 Divisions of the Serb Army plus air support and drop him into Iran and tell him to have fun. Should make for some interesting head lines. ;)
8 people liked this.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

McSpiff Fri, May 27, 2011 9:52:50am

re: #3 Alouette

I'm sure she gets all riled up over Holocaust deniers.

*spit*

Beat me to it. Denying what occurred in Bosnia and the former SFRY is just as evil as Holocaust denial in my eyes.

makeitstop Fri, May 27, 2011 9:53:19am

OT, momentarily - Albusteve, I watched your daughter's video last night. VERY well done. Grand Rapids looks like a fun place.

In other news, Pamz = still deranged.

BBL, work to do today.

McSpiff Fri, May 27, 2011 9:53:57am

re: #8 SpaceJesus

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

What. The. Fuck.

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 9:54:57am

Another Fox gem,

rockafeller24 [Moderator] 1 hour ago
Get well soon Sir. The world needs you. We , the free men and women appreciate your services to continue the existence of the western culture. I wish there were many people who valued your work.

4 people liked this.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 9:55:01am

As to Pam, she is simply evil.

I won't call her anything other than a rasha.

There is no stronger word I know.

She should know better.

wrenchwench Fri, May 27, 2011 9:55:40am

Geller has to link to sites as deranged as her own to make her case.

albusteve Fri, May 27, 2011 9:56:25am

re: #12 SpaceJesus

Another Fox gem,

just post the entire site

Tumulus11 Fri, May 27, 2011 9:56:36am

. Geller attempts to defend the inexcusable.
Mladic is a monster.

'Judge Fouad Riad, who later indicted Mladic in his absence at a war crimes tribunal, said the general had presided over "unimaginable savagery".
He said Srebrenica had witnessed 'thousands of men executed and buried in mass graves, hundreds of men buried alive, men and women mutilated and slaughtered, children killed before their mothers' eyes, a grandfather forced to eat the liver of his own grandson. These are truly scenes from hell, written on the darkest pages of human history.'
// The Telegraph.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 9:57:46am

re: #9 McSpiff

Beat me to it. Denying what occurred in Bosnia and the former SFRY is just as evil as Holocaust denial in my eyes.

Of course it is, and made worse by someone who disgraces the Jewish people by failing to understand the lessons of our own history. She is sick, twisted and repulsive. I use rasha because a list of negatives would be exhausted before reaching the true depths of her depravity.

As to the Fox people... this is what you get.

They have been evil for some time.

We should just call them so and stop being sissies about what we are facing.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 9:57:58am

I went to work for a guy in '97 and we talked about this. I knew very little about what actually happened. What he told me really opened my eyes.

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 9:58:05am

Geller is a fascist

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 9:59:05am

re: #15 albusteve

The link to the comments is up there. I'm gonna stop posting because literally ever other comment is something about defending or promoting genocide.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:00:25am

re: #19 SpaceJesus

Geller is a fascist

Yes she is.

However, I am less concerned with her as a person than I am with her legions of drooling, brainwashed, sick followers.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:01:30am

And what really pisses my off is the fact that this guy should end up on the business end of a noose, but he won't.

McSpiff Fri, May 27, 2011 10:05:11am

re: #22 Cannadian Club Akbar

And what really pisses my off is the fact that this guy should end up on the business end of a noose, but he won't.

I'm pretty anti-capital punishment, with the exception of War Crimes, Crimes against humanity, genocide, etc. So agreed.

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 10:06:35am

re: #21 LudwigVanQuixote

In most civilized countries, the kind of crap that comes out of Geller's fascist mouth would get you thrown in jail or prison.

lawhawk Fri, May 27, 2011 10:06:40am

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

Never Again should mean Never Again, but all too often it gets little more than shrugged shoulders and "what can we do?". It's BS. The Genocide Convention has no meaning without the ability to take the fight to those who are carrying out those genocides and war crimes.

The world watched with horror as the body count rose in Rwanda but did nothing to stop the butcher's bill - and it was literally a butchering of hundreds of thousands. Those killed were often done so at the blade of a knife or sword - not gunfire or explosives or gas.

The world watched and did nothing for years as Saddam murdered Marsh Arabs and Kurds - hundreds of thousands of them.

The world did nothing in Congo.
The world did nothing in Darfur (or Sudan at large).
The world did nothing in more instances of ethnic cleansing than should have ever been considered acceptable.

But they are acceptable because who exactly is going to step in to demand an end to the violence?

We can barely get anyone to lift a finger to stop Assad in Syria, but managed to cobble something together to deal with Khadafi in Libya, even though both autocrats are doing the same thing (murdering their own citizenry, but in Khadafi's case, there's a tangible opposition formed but no such leadership has emerged from Assad's crackdown).

All too often this would fall on the US to act since we've got the force capable of taking action. Yet the US doesn't want to do this because we aren't the world's policemen and many here are naturally predisposed to be isolationist. Defending human rights is seen through political prisms and nation-building is given short shrift even though both would help these regions in the long run. Instead, we get failed states, autocrats, and enhanced body counts.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:09:25am

re: #25 lawhawk

To be perfectly blunt, several countries are too unwilling to go to war for humanitarian reasons.

And Russia and China stymie anyone else if it is a country they like, which is why we're helpless to do anything for the Syrians.

We need to be willing to go to war to stop genocide and mass murder more often.

lawhawk Fri, May 27, 2011 10:09:39am

Oh, and Pam:

Prosecuting war crimes shouldn't matter on who is being charged and who was the victim - the laws are content neutral. Bosnians who committed war crimes should be prosecuted and sentenced just as harshly as any Serbian who did the same.

Just because someone on the other side did it shouldn't excuse genocide when done for the side you think was right to do so.

It's still genocide - and punishable as such.

You absolutely disgust me with this kind of moral terpitude.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:09:44am

re: #25 lawhawk

Never Again should mean Never Again, but all too often it gets little more than shrugged shoulders and "what can we do?". It's BS. The Genocide Convention has no meaning without the ability to take the fight to those who are carrying out those genocides and war crimes.

The world watched with horror as the body count rose in Rwanda but did nothing to stop the butcher's bill - and it was literally a butchering of hundreds of thousands. Those killed were often done so at the blade of a knife or sword - not gunfire or explosives or gas.

The world watched and did nothing for years as Saddam murdered Marsh Arabs and Kurds - hundreds of thousands of them.

The world did nothing in Congo.
The world did nothing in Darfur (or Sudan at large).
The world did nothing in more instances of ethnic cleansing than should have ever been considered acceptable.

But they are acceptable because who exactly is going to step in to demand an end to the violence?

We can barely get anyone to lift a finger to stop Assad in Syria, but managed to cobble something together to deal with Khadafi in Libya, even though both autocrats are doing the same thing (murdering their own citizenry, but in Khadafi's case, there's a tangible opposition formed but no such leadership has emerged from Assad's crackdown).

All too often this would fall on the US to act since we've got the force capable of taking action. Yet the US doesn't want to do this because we aren't the world's policemen and many here are naturally predisposed to be isolationist. Defending human rights is seen through political prisms and nation-building is given short shrift even though both would help these regions in the long run. Instead, we get failed states, autocrats, and enhanced body counts.

Excellent post and beautifully written. I agree completely and I am deeply saddened by how true that is.

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 10:09:55am

oh and the freep article is just as bad

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

I have studied the Balkans for many years. (not as much recently) I know a number of Serbs here in the U.S. (I have no Serb ancestry)
The Serbs got a really raw deal from the “International Community”. And it is still going on.
The lies that were told about Serb atrocities, our reason for entry in Slick Willie's Wag the Dog War, were mind boggling.

30 posted on Thursday, May 26, 2011 7:07:24 AM by Texas Fossil (Government, even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one)

goddamnedfrank Fri, May 27, 2011 10:10:24am

re: #24 SpaceJesus

In most civilized countries, the kind of crap that comes out of Geller's fascist mouth would get you thrown in jail or prison.

She is a huge Poopmouth.

Youtube Video

jamesfirecat Fri, May 27, 2011 10:10:41am

re: #27 lawhawk

Oh, and Pam:

Prosecuting war crimes shouldn't matter on who is being charged and who was the victim - the laws are content neutral. Bosnians who committed war crimes should be prosecuted and sentenced just as harshly as any Serbian who did the same.

Just because someone on the other side did it shouldn't excuse genocide when done for the side you think was right to do so.

It's still genocide - and punishable as such.

You absolutely disgust me with this kind of moral tderpitude.

Fixed that for you.

AK-47% Fri, May 27, 2011 10:11:15am

Great Britain wasone of the key obstructionists keeping the West from intervening to save lives, seems they had very close intelligence ties to Belgrade stemming from the Cold War.

lawhawk Fri, May 27, 2011 10:11:24am

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

That's absolutely true - some countries are able to get away with mass slaughter precisely because they've got a powerful benefactor thwarting any action more than a weakly worded statement from the UN.

All too often those countries are Russia and China - both of which have long histories of not only backing regimes that engaged in democide, but carrying it out themselves.

wrenchwench Fri, May 27, 2011 10:11:40am

re: #29 SpaceJesus

oh and the freep article is just as bad

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

I knew it would be because Geller linked to them.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:12:44am

re: #33 lawhawk

That's absolutely true - some countries are able to get away with mass slaughter precisely because they've got a powerful benefactor thwarting any action more than a weakly worded statement from the UN.

All too often those countries are Russia and China - both of which have long histories of not only backing regimes that engaged in democide, but carrying it out themselves.

And many of these nations are on the UN human rights commission! And then they wag fingers at Israel that does none of that stuff.

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 10:13:02am

re: #27 lawhawk

I wonder what she thinks about the entire US House and Senate declaring what happened there to be genocide.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:13:31am

re: #35 LudwigVanQuixote

And many of these nations are on the UN human rights commission! And then they wag fingers at Israel that does none of that stuff.

Fox and Hen house.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:14:41am

re: #33 lawhawk

China is worse than Russia (Uighurs and Tibetans). When the central government begins to collapse, I won't give a crap about what the Uighurs and Tibetans do in revenge.

Russia has the Caucasian peoples in the south, along with other groups.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:15:32am

re: #25 lawhawk

To continue your point and tie it to this thread back again. We could barely get Europe to lift a finger when it was happening in Europe and there was no powerful benefactor.

The Europeans have always been out for themselves first in terms of actual foreign policy. All bluster and weepy rhetoric in their press and politicians, but no spine to ever act. It is always a very cold calculation as to which genocides are actually genocides with them - and us, but at least the US did finally act.

lawhawk Fri, May 27, 2011 10:15:52am

re: #36 SpaceJesus

That would be resolutions that passed the House 370-0 (with 62 absent); and the Senate passed with unanimous consent.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:15:57am

re: #33 lawhawk

Though the US is far from clean on this, which has opened us up to some real justified criticism. Bangladesh and Cambodia anyone?

AK-47% Fri, May 27, 2011 10:16:08am

re: #38 ProLifeLiberal

China is worse than Russia (Uighurs and Tibetans). When the central government begins to collapse, I won't give a crap about what the Uighurs and Tibetans do in revenge.

Russia has the Caucasian peoples in the south, along with other groups.

Uighurs are Muslims. 'Nuff said...

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:17:24am

re: #39 LudwigVanQuixote

Alot of those nations are still very wary of war after WWII. Can't blame them either. The legacy of that will continue to affect the way they act of the world stage for a little while longer.

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 10:17:31am

re: #40 lawhawk

I guess there was 1 "NO" in the House. Still, I bet she thinks it was all a conspiracy.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:17:44am

Hey remember the Armenian Genocide that we can't talk about because it gets in the way of the Turks cleansing their history?

I'll give one and only one credit to Pelosi, she pushed that one through.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:18:20am

re: #43 ProLifeLiberal

Alot of those nations are still very wary of war after WWII. Can't blame them either. The legacy of that will continue to affect the way they act of the world stage for a little while longer.

And curiously ignoring genocide was a big European pass time then as well. Nothing changes.

lawhawk Fri, May 27, 2011 10:18:57am

re: #39 LudwigVanQuixote

Add to that the way the UN will frequently take steps to try and declare whatever violence is going on doesn't meet the definition of the Genocide Convention triggering its provisions. They'll find something less than genocide if only to prevent Art VII from being triggered in the UN Charter.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:19:35am

re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote

An ultra-nationalistic genocide. They killed Armenian Muslims and conversion did not save you. A precursor to the holocaust.

re: #42 ralphieboy

Meaning?

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:20:42am

re: #47 lawhawk

Add to that the way the UN will frequently take steps to try and declare whatever violence is going on doesn't meet the definition of the Genocide Convention triggering its provisions. They'll find something less than genocide if only to prevent Art VII from being triggered in the UN Charter.

Of course. The UN is useless and always has been. Actually having to act would mean allowing actual reality penetrate "diplomatic reality."

As amoral and Machiavellian as ever.

AK-47% Fri, May 27, 2011 10:20:45am

re: #48 ProLifeLiberal

I mean that Pam would most likely approve of the Chinese snuffing their own indigenous Muslims.

Kragar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:21:02am

Mladic was behind the largest mass murder in Europe since WWII, but since the victims were Muslim, Pam is willing to give him a pass?

What a disgusting waste of humanity, in both cases.

Sheila Broflovski Fri, May 27, 2011 10:21:19am

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

Of course. The UN is useless and always has been. Actually having to act would mean allowing actual reality penetrate "diplomatic reality."

As amoral and Machiavellian as ever.

Except when it comes to condemning whatever Israel does.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:22:30am

re: #52 Alouette

Except when it comes to condemning whatever Israel does.

Or on the contrary. Israel is condemned precisely because the UN is amoral and Machiavellian and does not let actual reality penetrate diplomatic reality.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:23:02am

re: #52 Alouette

Except when it comes to condemning whatever Israel does.

And any Israeli response to any attack is overkill.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 10:23:09am

militant Islamic state in the heart of Europe

What militant Islamic state would that be? Bosnia and Herzegovina? Kosovo?

Sheila Broflovski Fri, May 27, 2011 10:24:52am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

Or on the contrary. Israel is condemned precisely because the UN is amoral and Machiavellian and does not let actual reality penetrate diplomatic reality.

No other contry that has actually committed genocide will be condemned for commiting genocide, but Israel (which has not committed genocide) will be condemned for genocide.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:25:33am

re: #56 Alouette

No other contry that has actually committed genocide will be condemned for commiting genocide, but Israel (which has not committed genocide) will be condemned for genocide.

Of course, by those nations who commit the worst human rights violations themselves no less.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:25:41am

re: #50 ralphieboy

They already are, more or less.

But China cannot keep up there growth and economy forever. They have ruined their land, among other things. At some point, the Arc of Justice will hit China hard.

AK-47% Fri, May 27, 2011 10:26:38am

re: #55 000G

Ahem.

According to Pamthink, any Muslim state would be a radical Muslim state, it just goes with the territory...

HappyWarrior Fri, May 27, 2011 10:27:14am

It's beyond sick that Serbian war criminals have become heroes to the fringe and anti Islamic right. It's sick. Because they targeted Muslims, they're just fine with Pam.

Kragar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:27:26am

Pam sez:

Instead of admitting their terrible mistake, the dhimmi Western powers are digging in their heels and further prosecuting the Serbs in their sisyphean and thankless efforts to stop Islamic imperialism.

Here is what these "Brave Freedom Fighters" did:

Close to Sandići, on the main road from Bratunac to Konjević Polje, one witness describes the Serbs forcing a Bosniak man to call other Bosniaks down from the mountains. Some 200 to 300 men, including the witness' brother, followed his instructions and descended to meet the VRS, presumably expecting some exchange of prisoners would take place. The witness hid behind a tree to see what would happen next. He watched as the men were lined up in seven ranks, each some forty metres in length, with their hands behind their heads; they were then mowed down by machine gun fire.[citation needed].[86]

The VRS also sent one of the civilians who wished to surrender back towards the column: one of his eyes had been gouged out, his ears had been cut off and a cross carved into his forehead.[87]

jamesfirecat Fri, May 27, 2011 10:27:36am

re: #45 LudwigVanQuixote

Hey remember the Armenian Genocide that we can't talk about because it gets in the way of the Turks cleansing their history?

I'll give one and only one credit to Pelosi, she pushed that one through.

Why is that the only thing you give Pelosi credit for?

No credit for repealing DADT, or passing healthcare?

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 10:27:49am

re: #57 LudwigVanQuixote

My favorite UNHRC moment was when the genocide was happening in Darfur, and the UNHRC only expressed "concern" over the situation there during that year, but took the time to pass condemnations of Israel multiple times.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 10:28:07am

Whatever proof will be shown of executions by Mladic’s forces of Muslim POWs (and there were a few hundred — though not 8000)

Wtf? How is this different from genocide denial?

wrenchwench Fri, May 27, 2011 10:29:01am

re: #64 000G

Wtf? How is this different from genocide denial?

In no way is it different.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 10:29:53am

re: #59 ralphieboy

Ahem.

According to Pamthink, any Muslim state would be a radical Muslim state, it just goes with the territory...

I don't even know of a Muslim state within Europe, as in: constitutionally islamic.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:30:47am

re: #66 000G

On the other hand, we have several "Christian" states. Almost all Protestant.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:31:32am

re: #66 000G

I don't even know of a Muslim state within Europe, as in: constitutionally islamic.

But there will be unless we start killin' dem Mooslims NOW!!

sattv4u2 Fri, May 27, 2011 10:31:36am

re: #62 jamesfirecat

Why is that the only thing you give Pelosi credit for?

No credit for repealing DADT, or passing healthcare?

She had a compliant house, a compliant senate and a compliant president

Not exactly an astonishing feat of governance

AK-47% Fri, May 27, 2011 10:32:07am

re: #66 000G

Don't confulse the issue: you are speaking in terms of constitutionality and law, Pam is speaking in terms of a gut hatred towards anything that smacks of Islam.

HappyWarrior Fri, May 27, 2011 10:32:25am

re: #67 ProLifeLiberal

On the other hand, we have several "Christian" states. Almost all Protestant.

Mostly in Scandinavia I believe. Saw a guest professor speak on that subject once. His only focus was the west but the countries without official religions (ours) and ones with (say Sweden) the former tended to have more religious pluralism.

jamesfirecat Fri, May 27, 2011 10:32:47am

re: #69 sattv4u2

She had a compliant house, a compliant senate and a compliant president

Not exactly an astonishing feat of governance

Doesn't mean she shouldn't get credit for getting it done.

We Democrats are masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory after all.

sattv4u2 Fri, May 27, 2011 10:32:49am

re: #68 Cannadian Club Akbar

shouldn't you be packing snowshoes and long undies?

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:33:47am

re: #62 jamesfirecat

Why is that the only thing you give Pelosi credit for?

No credit for repealing DADT, or passing healthcare?

Well, actually I balme her and Reid for making HEalthcare into the butcherd thing it is today by preventing the Dems from making a clear unified stand. She and reid wanted their little turf wars. BEcause of this, they handed the bill to the GOP and it was castrated for no votes from that side anyway.

They did the same on Carbon emissions as well.

I actually consider the egotism of Reid and Pelosi to be one of the major reasons that the Tea bags got so strong.

Imagine what it would have looked like had there been a unified Dem front or if they actually supported the President or spoke with a clear voice?

SpaceJesus Fri, May 27, 2011 10:33:57am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

that's no longer the case in Sweden since about 2000

Ericus58 Fri, May 27, 2011 10:34:43am

O/T
Disney Withdraws "Seal Team Six" Trademark Request

Youtube Video

"We are fully committed to protecting our trademark rights" was the response from the Navy to Disney's actions.

/do I really need to link the Navy Seal Motivational posters?!

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 10:35:14am

it’s important to understand the main reason he has been sought with such universal zeal, as was Karadzic and the abducted-by-night Milosevic, not to mention all the lesser-known Serbs currently serving multi-decade terms. The crime they are all morally charged with — above and beyond anything legal or technical — is daring to fight back when Muslims attacked. They are guilty of being Serbian officials during war. Of daring to answer war with war.

wtf wtf wtf

Slaughtering unarmed civilians is not waging war, it is comitting a war crime; singling them out for religious or ethnic reasons is comitting genocide. It was not "fighting back", it was part of a mass-murderous policy of trying to create a pure Greater Serbia out of the breakaway territories of Yugoslavia.

What a sick individual.

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:35:29am

re: #63 SpaceJesus

My favorite UNHRC moment was when the genocide was happening in Darfur, and the UNHRC only expressed "concern" over the situation there during that year, but took the time to pass condemnations of Israel multiple times.

Well you see in that genocide the murderers were Muslims supported by the oil states and the victims were poor and black and had nothing.

Don't you see how that is different?///

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:35:53am

re: #73 sattv4u2

shouldn't you be packing snowshoes and long undies?

Swabbing the decks this morning!! And tomorrow!!

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 10:36:34am

By the way, if you think the commentators at Fox's reporting over this were bad, try going to RT (aka Russia Today). Ugh. Pretty much all neonazis.

sattv4u2 Fri, May 27, 2011 10:37:33am

re: #79 Cannadian Club Akbar

Swabbing the decks this morning!! And tomorrow!!

Ahh ,,

Opted for the marina gig in shorts and sandals rather than battling penguins for left over fish heads

jamesfirecat Fri, May 27, 2011 10:37:39am

re: #74 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, actually I balme her and Reid for making HEalthcare into the butcherd thing it is today by preventing the Dems from making a clear unified stand. She and reid wanted their little turf wars. BEcause of this, they handed the bill to the GOP and it was castrated for no votes from that side anyway.

They did the same on Carbon emissions as well.

I actually consider the egotism of Reid and Pelosi to be one of the major reasons that the Tea bags got so strong.

Imagine what it would have looked like had there been a unified Dem front or if they actually supported the President or spoke with a clear voice?

Please explain what you mean to me by "their little turf war" since it's not an expression I've heard before in regards to how democratic politics played out.

I have plenty of bones to pick with the Dem performance in the Senate (needing the better part of half a year to get everyone in the party to agree not to filibuster) but I fail to see how that is Nancy's fault in any way at the moment.

Sadly the division of Democrats is likely to be a fact of life for quite a while so long as a noticeable number of them are Blue Dogs who would be Republicans if the GOP wasn't taking such a hard right that the G forces may prove deadly to an unprotected human being.

wrenchwench Fri, May 27, 2011 10:37:54am

re: #80 000G

By the way, if you think the commentators at Fox's reporting over this were bad, try going to RT (aka Russia Today). Ugh. Pretty much all neonazis.

Geller links to them too.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:39:23am

re: #81 sattv4u2

Ahh ,,

Opted for the marina gig in shorts and sandals rather than battling penguins for left over fish heads

Just a temp thing, but it's cash.:)

sattv4u2 Fri, May 27, 2011 10:40:28am

re: #84 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just a temp thing, but it's cash.:)

Hey ,, sometimes "temp thngs" turn into "hey, you're doing a good job and we like you , why not stay on" things

Kragar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:41:01am

Mladic's own words on what was done:

It is noteworthy that at this meeting, both Karadzic and Krajisnik were warned by Bosnian Serb military commander General Ratko Mladic, also indicted on genocide charges, that their plans could not be committed without committed genocide. ‘People are not little stones, or keys in someone's pocket, that can be moved from one place to another just like that... Therefore, we cannot precisely arrange for only Serbs to stay in one part of the country while removing others painlessly. I do not know how Mr Krajisnik and Mr Karadzic will explain that to the world. That is genocide,’ said Mladic. It was obvious to Mladic that the plan envisaged by the Serb politicial leadership could not be put into practice without a genocide. Even though the general had no qualms about executing this genocidal plan, this quote from the parliamentary transcript shows that Serb military and political leaders were aware of the likely consequences of their actions.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:44:40am

re: #75 SpaceJesus

Political Parties still run for church positions though.

HappyWarrior Fri, May 27, 2011 10:46:53am

re: #75 SpaceJesus

that's no longer the case in Sweden since about 2000

Ah ok.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 10:48:39am

re: #27 lawhawk

Oh, and Pam:

Prosecuting war crimes shouldn't matter on who is being charged and who was the victim - the laws are content neutral. Bosnians who committed war crimes should be prosecuted and sentenced just as harshly as any Serbian who did the same.

Just because someone on the other side did it shouldn't excuse genocide when done for the side you think was right to do so.

It's still genocide - and punishable as such.

You absolutely disgust me with this kind of moral terpitude.

This, a thousand times over. Thank you.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 10:49:38am

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

This man was a monster. Much of the violence and organized militancy of the Muslim world today can be laid at the feet of the horrors of that conflict and the refusal of Europe and America to do a damn thing about it for so very long.

Muslims were butchered there in crimes as grotesque as any genocide. It was clearly an attempted genocide, called ethnic cleansing. Women and children in mass graves. It should have been stopped sooner just because of that. Only because of that, but, we can look at Darfur or Rwanda and see how much the world really cares about actual genocides.

Other Muslims from around the world came to fight, organized, trained and became battle hardened against a fanatical and genocidal foe. It is not surprising that they came back angry and very good at fighting.

Catching war criminals and putting them to justice is always important. But this is one of the greatest cases of too little too late by the West and particularly cowardly Europeans in recent memory. We are still feeling the blowback.

Can anyone recommend to me some reading on how actually relevent Bosnia was to the international Muslim community (I mean more in terms of fuel for jihad, less in terms of people watching the TV and donating to the Red Cross), and what out-of-country people actually became involved?

Also: I'm appalled at the speed with which this nasty strain of denial is making progress in some circles, and the fact that it is making progress with Jews make me physically ill.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 10:51:24am

re: #5 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the link:

The majority of this group consisted of unarmed military personnel and civilians.

It's OK. They were Mooslims, eh Pammy?

It's interesting for me to recall that I had a dust-up a while back with an acquaintance who thinks Pam is right-on, who also forwarded me an article about how what happened with Lara Logan was directly attributable to Islam.

I asked him what the mass rapes of the Balkan conflict were attributable to, but never got an answer. Women's blood means shit to some people if it doesn't prove a point about which team of menfolk are morally superior.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 10:52:31am

re: #6 SpaceJesus

The top two comments from the Fox News story on this same event:

In reply to this guy...

Does anyone else imagine guys in galabiyas and kufis with moose antlers when they see 'mooslim'?

Almost Killed by Space Hookers Fri, May 27, 2011 10:54:07am

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Can anyone recommend to me some reading on how actually relevent Bosnia was to the international Muslim community (I mean more in terms of fuel for jihad, less in terms of people watching the TV and donating to the Red Cross), and what out-of-country people actually became involved?

Also: I'm appalled at the speed with which this nasty strain of denial is making progress in some circles, and the fact that it is making progress with Jews make me physically ill.

I will have to look for that on the web for you after a meeting. However I recall reading many analyses to that effect.

I remember for example many reports of Al Q fighters learning their trade in Bosnia.

Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, May 27, 2011 10:55:37am

bbiab.

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 10:55:45am

re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist

I've seen some stories about Serbs raping Bosnian women, and what the Serbs said. I know I shouldn't hold the Serbian People responsible or what happened, but I feel massive amounts of anger about it. I've more than once ended up joining a Balkan Flame War on the side of the Bosnians.

How the Serbs have treated the Albanians in the last century doesn't help.

Iwouldprefernotto Fri, May 27, 2011 10:56:57am

Ellie Wiesel was one of the first people to speak out against the atrocities in Bosnia. I would like to ask Geller if she thinks he has any understanding of the situation.

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 10:58:36am

re: #9 McSpiff

Beat me to it. Denying what occurred in Bosnia and the former SFRY is just as evil as Holocaust denial in my eyes.

I had some Bosnian kids in my class back when I taught in Alameda. Lovely, hard-working folks. Got to a point after a while when I could spot families in Alameda and realize they were Bosnians.

All the ones I met were quite secular--Reform-style Muslims, I guess. Did stuff for the holidays, but nothing like as observant as the Afghan kids I had.

Once I had the kids write autobiographical essays as part of their graduation projects. One kid began, "I was born when there was war."

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:00:43am

re: #16 Tumulus11

. Geller attempts to defend the inexcusable.
Mladic is a monster.

For a Jew to play this game is vile.

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 11:01:30am

re: #67 ProLifeLiberal

On the other hand, we have several "Christian" states. Almost all Protestant.

Oh, if you just go by demographics, then I guess Kosovo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, Kazakhstan, Turkey, Azerbaijan could be counted as muslim.

100

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:01:37am

re: #19 SpaceJesus

Geller is a fascist

Geller is a fascist groupie and apologist. Which is just as morally reprehensible, but easier to do from a comfy apartment.

101

wrenchwench Fri, May 27, 2011 11:01:42am

re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist

Does anyone else imagine guys in galabiyas and kufis with moose antlers when they see 'mooslim'?

I will now, thank you.

102

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:02:01am

re: #23 McSpiff

I'm pretty anti-capital punishment, with the exception of War Crimes, Crimes against humanity, genocide, etc. So agreed.

I wouldn't mind hanging this guy.

103

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:03:17am

re: #36 SpaceJesus

I wonder what she thinks about the entire US House and Senate declaring what happened there to be genocide.

Snookered by the Mooslims.

104

General Nimrod Bodfish Fri, May 27, 2011 11:03:19am

The Holocaust and the Srebrenica massacres, amount others, show what happens when you dehumanize one group of people. You take away the humanity of one group, you make it easier for the general population to engage in atrocities.

Everyone always says "Never again" or such, but the further away we get from the event in question, the more people forget and allow to happen again.

105

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:04:14am

re: #38 ProLifeLiberal

China is worse than Russia (Uighurs and Tibetans). When the central government begins to collapse, I won't give a crap about what the Uighurs and Tibetans do in revenge.

Problem is, they won't get the central government, they'll get other civilians.

106

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 11:04:37am

re: #83 wrenchwench

Geller links to them too.

RT is viciously anti-american, much worse than even Al-Jazeera. But I guess since it does not reek of muslim so much as the latter, it's okay.

107

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:05:33am

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mladic was behind the largest mass murder in Europe since WWII, but since the victims were Muslim, Pam is willing to give him a ~~pass~~ medal.

What a disgusting waste of humanity, in both cases.

FTFY.

108

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 11:06:25am

I should explain what I meant about Serbia occupying Albania:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Serbia slaughtered 120,000 Albanians between 1912 and 1913. A forgotten genocide, about 50% the casualties of the Bosnian Genocide 80 years later. 10%+ of Albanians at the tome were wiped out.

109

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:07:08am

re: #55 000G

What militant Islamic state would that be? Bosnia and Herzegovina? Kosovo?

Yeah, that's what they've convinced themselves of. An Islamist state was beginning, and the poor Serbs had to defend themselves from the wild-eyed jihadis. Sure, maybe some mistakes were made, but...

Fuck that shit.

110

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:07:47am

re: #59 ralphieboy

Ahem.

According to Pamthink, any Muslim state would be a radical Muslim state, it just goes with the territory...

Any state with Muslims in it would be a radical Muslim state.

I wonder if Pam has ever actually MET a Bosnian.

111

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:09:53am

re: #64 000G

Wtf? How is this different from genocide denial?

This is genocide denial. Amazing, ain't it? I grew up knowing about Holocaust deniers, but watching it go from happening live on your TV to people lying about it on podiums in your lifetime is something else.

112

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:11:03am

re: #66 000G

I don't even know of a Muslim state within Europe, as in: constitutionally islamic.

There isn't one. Albania's mostly Muslim, but they're a secular republic.

113

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 11:11:33am

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

To summarize, I think between this and Kosovo, Albanians have about 130,000 reasons to be pissed at Serbia.

114

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 11:11:39am

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

Once I had the kids write autobiographical essays as part of their graduation projects. One kid began, "I was born when there was war."

That is heartbreaking.

I remember the Yugoslav refugee kids in German schools. That was back when the Yugoslav Wars begans.

115

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:12:15am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

Mostly in Scandinavia I believe. Saw a guest professor speak on that subject once. His only focus was the west but the countries without official religions (ours) and ones with (say Sweden) the former tended to have more religious pluralism.

Well, the US has more pluralism, of more different kinds, than most places. We're good at pluralism.

116

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:13:39am

re: #77 000G

wtf wtf wtf

Slaughtering unarmed civilians is not waging war, it is comitting a war crime; singling them out for religious or ethnic reasons is comitting genocide. It was not "fighting back", it was part of a mass-murderous policy of trying to create a pure Greater Serbia out of the breakaway territories of Yugoslavia.

What a sick individual.

THat's the other part of this--denying the open nationalist beliefs of some of the Serbs. I had a very unpleasant, very drunk lunch with some Russian idiot who kept talking about how the Serbs were his fucking Slavic brothers. He was a Jew. Look who thinks he's a Slavic brother.

117

ProGunLiberal Fri, May 27, 2011 11:14:13am

re: #113 ProLifeLiberal

And I just found out that Kosovo was part of Albania until that war in 1912 to 1913. So there's that too.

Give Kosovo back to Albania. On the 100th anniversary of the War where Serbia took it.

118

(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, May 27, 2011 11:14:20am

re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist

This is genocide denial. Amazing, ain't it? I grew up knowing about Holocaust deniers, but watching it go from happening live on your TV to people lying about it on podiums in your lifetime is something else.

One thing I have learned from studying the history of holocaust denial: You have to fight back, quick and hard, most preferably with academical research. That way you learn many valuable lessons that otherwise would likely not be well known because of the emotional distress associated with uncovering a lot of information about it. And otherwise, many myths and fictions and folklore of denial quickly are allowed to become mainstream and influence public opinion and policy. Usually not in a good way.

119

SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 27, 2011 11:15:34am

re: #96 Iwouldprefernotto

Ellie Wiesel was one of the first people to speak out against the atrocities in Bosnia. I would like to ask Geller if she thinks he has any understanding of the situation.

You know how McCain doesn't understand how torture works? Well, Eli Weisel doesn't get this genocide thing.
//

120

McSpiff Fri, May 27, 2011 1:08:55pm

re: #97 SanFranciscoZionist

I had some Bosnian kids in my class back when I taught in Alameda. Lovely, hard-working folks. Got to a point after a while when I could spot families in Alameda and realize they were Bosnians.

All the ones I met were quite secular--Reform-style Muslims, I guess. Did stuff for the holidays, but nothing like as observant as the Afghan kids I had.

Once I had the kids write autobiographical essays as part of their graduation projects. One kid began, "I was born when there was war."

Our city took a bunch of refugees from Kosovo, including a bunch of guys in there 20s. One of them ended up working in a connivence store near our school. We were all really big into soccer and he'd play in the aisle with us. Super nice guy, really hope he's living the Canadian dream. Was probably one of the best examples of how refugees can help their host country as much as we help them.

121

Eclectic Infidel Fri, May 27, 2011 11:29:34pm

What a vile woman.

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