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1 Targetpractice  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:34:07pm

Of course it's not, Sarah. That your tour bus has got big pictures of you plastered on the side and the address for your PAC prove that. *rolls eyes*

2 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:34:47pm

My bullshit meter just buried the needle.

3 jaunte  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:34:53pm

"It’s not a publicity seeking tour"

4 jamesfirecat  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:37:08pm

Whatever you say Joan of Anchorage.

5 albusteve  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:37:54pm

what a dope...narcissism mainlined
she has a monster buzz going

6 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:38:19pm

"Not about me"? Excuse me for a minute....

HAHAHAHAHA, HOOAHAHAHAH, HEEHEEHEEHEE, HEHHEH... HACK HACK HACK [cough]

[cough]

hee...hee

OK, I'm back.

7 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:38:24pm

If I had a tour bus only one person would be allowed on. SLUTS!!
/wait, did I get that wrong?

8 jaunte  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:38:47pm

Trivers' theory of self-deception:

This notion is based on the following logic: deception is a fundamental aspect of communication in nature, both between and within species. It has evolved so that one can have an advantage over another. From alarm calls to mimicry, animals use deception to further their survival. Those who are better able to perceive deception are more likely to survive. As a result, self-deception evolved to better mask deception from those who perceive it well, as Trivers puts it: "Hiding the truth from yourself to hide it more deeply from others." In humans, awareness of the fact that one is acting deceptively often leads to tell-tale signs of deception, such as nostrils flaring, clammy skin, quality and tone of voice, eye movement, or excessive blinking. Therefore, if self-deception enables someone to believe her or his own distortions, s/he will not present such signs of deception and will therefore appear to be telling the truth.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
9 Targetpractice  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:39:16pm

Sarah, you're not gonna get in the White House with lying skills that poor.

10 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:40:09pm

re: #7 Cannadian Club Akbar

If I had a tour bus only one person would be allowed on. SLUTS!!
/wait, did I get that wrong?

I'll get my own tour bus..with hookers... and blackjack!

11 Stanghazi  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:40:13pm

Aw, watch this video of today in Philly. Little body guard on vaca.

[Link: www.myfoxphilly.com...]

12 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:41:29pm

Earlier today The Esther tried to sound foreign policy-y:

New Afghanistan Development Dangerous to NATO

The only problem is... it doesn't really say anything other than if somebody threatens us we have to run. It's just a way to get a "note" about Afghanistan. But she doesn't seem to realize that her statement is a statement of weakness for several reasons.

The Esther is just clueless about how to do anything but making money by looking pretty and saying folksy things - exactly what one would expect of beauty pageant girl.

13 Four More Tears  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:42:05pm

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll get my own tour bus..with hookers... and blackjack!

Ah forget the blackjack. And forget the bus!

14 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:42:52pm

re: #13 JasonA

Ah forget the blackjack. And forget the bus!

You pick up hookers behind a 7-11? Me too.
/

15 rwmofo  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:43:02pm

So the lovely Sarah has punked the media again.

Let's recap: She's made millions of dollars, wrote two best-selling books, lead a political movement that helped take back the Congress, produced a hit documentary series, endured an unprecedented media onslaught, and maintained her presidential viability - all while the media's collective heads are, well, doing this.

Oh, the left really hates the fact she's made so much money.

Heh.

16 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:43:20pm

re: #12 freetoken

I don't think she's actually good at promoting herself either. She just lucked into being a right wing heroine, and she's riding the tiger with no idea where it's going.

17 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:43:30pm

re: #11 Stanley Sea

Aw, watch this video of today in Philly. Little body guard on vaca.

[Link: www.myfoxphilly.com...]

No!

18 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:44:03pm
“It has always been unintentional, my tweaking of the media,” she said.

That? That I believe.

19 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:44:24pm

re: #16 Charles

I don't think she's actually good at promoting herself either. She just lucked into being a right wing heroine, and she's riding the tiger with no idea where it's going.

She could be a hell of a fund raiser with the RNC.

20 albusteve  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:44:24pm

re: #15 rwmofo

So the lovely Sarah has punked the media again.

Let's recap: She's made millions of dollars, wrote two best-selling books, lead a political movement that helped take back the Congress, produced a hit documentary series, endured an unprecedented media onslaught, and maintained her presidential viability - all while the media's collective heads are, well, doing this.

Oh, the left really hates the fact she's made so much money.

Heh.

so do I...I can't think of anybody less worthy to pimp herself into a buck

21 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:44:43pm

re: #15 rwmofo

Very weak troll. You're not even trying any more.

22 Spocomptonite  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:44:45pm

...is Greta Van Susteren on the bus just because Palin randomly pointed to her at the White House press gala dinner thingy when asked who she thought the best/most influential journalist was?

23 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:45:13pm

re: #12 freetoken

Earlier today The Esther tried to sound foreign policy-y:

New Afghanistan Development Dangerous to NATO

The only problem is... it doesn't really say anything other than if somebody threatens us we have to run. It's just a way to get a "note" about Afghanistan. But she doesn't seem to realize that her statement is a statement of weakness for several reasons.

The Esther is just clueless about how to do anything but making money by looking pretty and saying folksy things - exactly what one would expect of beauty pageant girl.

That last seems a nasty stereotype to me.

24 drool  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:45:54pm

...except it's all about her...why would she be advertising it and informing the media ahead of time? Child number two is starting to go sideways (Willow) and rather than parenting she's off "enhancing" her image to garner bigger bucks.

25 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:46:04pm

re: #16 Charles

I don't think she's actually good at promoting herself either.

Fortunately for her and her bank account, there are plenty of people around her who do know how to make money off of celebrity. Every talent needs their promoter - actor, singer, sportsman, etc. The Roger Ailes of this world know for sure how to make money off of Palin, and they share some of the loot with her.

26 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:46:06pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

That last seems a nasty stereotype to me.

She IS a beauty pageant girl.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:46:10pm

When someone says it's not about the money? It is generally about the money.

When someone says it's not about themselves? They can't stop thinking about themselves long enough to think that you might think it might be about someone else.

28 rwmofo  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:46:52pm

re: #21 Charles

Very weak troll. You're not even trying any more.

Oh, my fastball still hits the strike zone. I'll drop by more often when I have the spare time. Thanks for the acknowledgement, though.

29 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:46:56pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

That last seems a nasty stereotype to me.

Yes, it is.

She endorses the stereotype greatly. She really does. She's earned her derision.

30 Spocomptonite  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:47:16pm

re: #23 Dark_Falcon

That last seems a nasty stereotype to me.

yeah, no need to insult beauty pageant girls with a comparison to Palin, they can be quite intelligent and nice people in my experience.

31 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:47:38pm

re: #26 Charles

She IS a beauty pageant girl.

I know, and it fits her. It just seems to stereotype other people, that's all. It fits Sarah Palin like a glove.

32 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:47:40pm

hmmmm...

33 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:47:41pm

re: #28 rwmofo

In addition to being laughably trollish, you're smug too. A real winning combination.

34 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:47:57pm

re: #26 Charles

She IS a beauty pageant girl.

And she can see Russia from her house.

35 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:48:09pm

re: #15 rwmofo

Good evening, Mr. Troll. Is there a nice view from under your bridge tonight?

36 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:48:22pm

So, if a couple of right wing radio talking heads, supported Sarah the 1/2 Governor, how many folks think she'd be a viable candidate?
Isn't this, after all, her trial balloon?
(Pass me the darts...)

37 prairiefire  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:48:32pm

re: #28 rwmofo

At least somebody is getting a cheap thrill tonight.

38 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:48:34pm

re: #28 rwmofo

Oh, my fastball still hits the strike zone. I'll drop by more often when I have the spare time. Thanks for the acknowledgement, though.

Word to the wise: It's not smart to bait Charles like that. It never ends well.

39 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:48:59pm

re: #15 rwmofo

... produced a hit documentary series, ...

Dude, that's not even, like, really trying on your part.

40 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:49:11pm

re: #26 Charles

She IS a beauty pageant girl.

Well, she's a pageant girl, at least!

41 rwmofo  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:49:35pm

re: #33 Charles

In addition to being laughably trollish, you're smug too. A real winning combination.

Thank you very much.

Heh.

42 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:49:43pm

re: #29 freetoken

Yes, it is.

She endorses the stereotype greatly. She really does. She's earned her derision.

Quoted for truth!

43 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:50:19pm

re: #36 Floral Giraffe

So, if a couple of right wing radio talking heads, supported Sarah the 1/2 Governor, how many folks think she'd be a viable candidate?
Isn't this, after all, her trial balloon?
(Pass me the darts...)

You don't need darts. just grab a hat pin [holds up the pin, ball end first] and pop the balloon when it gets up there.

/giraffe humor

44 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:51:04pm

A hit documentary series which hemorrhaged viewers like a hemophiliac stumbling thru a cutlery shop and failed to get picked up for a second season.

45 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:51:24pm

re: #1 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
That your tour bus has got big pictures of you plastered on the side.

Donde esta la photographias?

“It’s painted up with the Constitution and with the ‘We the people’ and part of our pledge of allegiance,” she said. “It is not pictures of Sarah Palin on this bus, because it isn't about me.”

46 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:51:45pm

re: #41 rwmofo

Huh. I really didn't expect you to actually ask for the ban hammer like that. Guess I over estimated your intellect.

47 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:52:27pm

re: #28 rwmofo

Oh, my fastball still hits the strike zone. I'll drop by more often when I have the spare time. Thanks for the acknowledgement, though.

I used to pitch in Little League and learned early on that having the ball hit the ground before it crosses the plate is a FAIL.

48 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:52:46pm

re: #15 rwmofo

And McDonald's sells billions of gutter level, garbage hamburgers every day. Your point is weak.

And nobody gives a shit about how much money Palin has made off of rubes, other than Palin.

49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:53:01pm

It's close to midnight, and something evil's lurking in the dark.

G'night knuckleheads!

50 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:53:04pm

re: #45 Claire

That your tour bus has got big pictures of you plastered on the side.

Donde esta la photographias?

“It’s painted up with the Constitution and with the ‘We the people’ and part of our pledge of allegiance,” she said. “It is not pictures of Sarah Palin on this bus, because it isn't about me.”

It doesn't have pictures of her, but it has her signature all over it with links to her SarahPAC website.

51 Targetpractice  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:53:27pm

re: #45 Claire

That your tour bus has got big pictures of you plastered on the side.

Donde esta la photographias?

“It’s painted up with the Constitution and with the ‘We the people’ and part of our pledge of allegiance,” she said. “It is not pictures of Sarah Palin on this bus, because it isn't about me.”

Hmm, perhaps I'm thinking of her old bus, back when she was hocking her books.

52 [deleted]  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:54:42pm
53 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:55:06pm

re: #50 Charles

Yes, I read that, too. Right there in the article.

54 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:55:09pm

re: #51 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hmm, perhaps I'm thinking of her old bus, back when she was hocking her books.

Don't remember that. I do remember the RIF bus. Loved that thing.

55 Kronocide  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:55:31pm

re: #15 rwmofo

Not even trying troll.

56 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:55:36pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A hit documentary series which hemorrhaged viewers like a hemophiliac stumbling thru a cutlery shop and failed to get picked up for a second season.

Thems such purty words.

57 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:55:53pm

re: #53 Claire

Yes, I read that, too. Right there in the article.

I posted the picture last week.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

58 albusteve  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:56:02pm

what happens when you dump a box of sugar into a diesel gas tank?

59 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:56:03pm

re: #26 Charles

She IS a beauty pageant girl.

Woman. WOMAN!

Damn, man. Did you not see the feminist ass kicking I got in the last thread.
/

60 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:56:16pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A hit documentary series which hemorrhaged viewers like a hemophiliac stumbling thru a cutlery shop and failed to get picked up for a second season.

After 1-3 episodes the joke gets old. Seeing a half-wit smile and pose her way through life soon loses its charm.

61 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:09pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

After 1-3 episodes the joke gets old. Seeing a half-wit smile and pose her way through life soon loses its charm.

I loved watching her crew edit the caribou to the ground for her.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:09pm

re: #40 Floral Giraffe

Well, she's a pageant girl, at least!

And YOU!!! After the drubbing you gave me. I am disappoint.

63 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:14pm

re: #51 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Probably, lol.

64 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:14pm

Jim Hoft is now tweeting about Rep. Weiner's "sick predatory behavior."

[Link: twitter.com...]

65 sod  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:15pm

I just recently got into 30 rock and have been catching up on previous seasons on Hulu. It's mean but I laughed when Jack commented on male sexual performance issues:

That does happen to men, I’ve faced it myself with Greta Van Sustern before her head transplant.

66 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:45pm

re: #58 albusteve

what happens when you dump a box of sugar into a diesel gas tank?

You end up with an empty box of sugar.

67 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:57:52pm

re: #52 MikeySDCA

There is a familiar scenario these days.
A White Trash family gets a moment of media attention, usually through a most regrettable tragedy. The family of Elizabeth Smart has been particularly conspicuous.
A member of the family discovers that s/he has never seen a microphone or camera that s/he doesn't like. A publicity blitz follows, in which the family and the media compete in making asses of themselves.
Sarah Palin is a weird analog to this. She was not much stuff as Governor of Alaska, then was chosen to the bewilderment of everyone as McCain's VP candidate. Suddenly, she was on every broadcast except the Food Channel, and she loved it.
She still does.

Objection on the grounds that it seems to associate Elizabeth Smart with white trash and she seems to be nothing of the sort.

68 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:58:14pm

re: #64 Charles

Jim Hoft is now tweeting about Rep. Weiner's "sick predatory behavior."

[Link: twitter.com...]

"In my day, we used to sit outside the High Schools and Junior Colleges for hours waiting to see girls!"
/

69 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:58:23pm

re: #64 Charles

Jim Hoft is now tweeting about Rep. Weiner's "sick predatory behavior."

[Link: twitter.com...]

More project than a movie theater.

70 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:58:30pm

re: #62 Slumbering Behemoth

And YOU!!! After the drubbing you gave me. I am disappoint.

You will survive!

71 albusteve  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:58:35pm

re: #64 Charles

Jim Hoft is now tweeting about Rep. Weiner's "sick predatory behavior."

[Link: twitter.com...]

Dim is just jealous

72 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:59:03pm

re: #64 Charles

Jim Hoft is now tweeting about Rep. Weiner's "sick predatory behavior."

[Link: twitter.com...]

Hoft sounds like an impotent Breitbart wanna-be.

73 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 8:59:08pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

After 1-3 episodes the joke gets old. Seeing a half-wit smile and pose her way through life soon loses its charm.

As a hunter her joke got old almost as fast a Nugents. 5 shots ... feh.

74 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:00:56pm

re: #58 albusteve

what happens when you dump a box of sugar into a diesel gas tank?

You get the shit kicked out of you by a trucker?

75 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:02:47pm

Christine O'Donnell got into trouble for using her PAC money for pure personal benefit, to pay her rent. Isn't that exactly what Sarah is doing here, using her PAC to fund an all expenses paid vacation that isn't tied to any actual campaign or legitimate political activity? She's glad handing her worshipers and yucking it up, but it's not clear if there's any real point beyond bolstering her personal media brand. If she doesn't end up running, the political action will have been what, exactly?

76 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:02:50pm

re: #69 Dark_Falcon

More projection than a movie theater.

PIMF

77 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:03:17pm

re: #74 Slumbering Behemoth

You get the shit kicked out of you by a trucker?

Dig the truck on this babe.

78 sagehen  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:03:18pm

re: #15 rwmofo

So the lovely Sarah has punked the media again.

Let's recap: She's made millions of dollars, wrote two best-selling books, lead a political movement that helped take back the Congress, produced a hit documentary series, endured an unprecedented media onslaught, and maintained her presidential viability - all while the media's collective heads are, well, doing this.

Oh, the left really hates the fact she's made so much money.

Heh.


Led a movement? Or surfed a wave?

She's a hood ornament for Dick Army and the Koch Brothers. (note to self: must resist penis puns)

79 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:03:35pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

After 1-3 episodes the joke gets old. Seeing a half-wit smile and pose her way through life soon loses its charm.

America ain't buying her phony, "folksy charm" act any more. They can see her for the plastic statue she is.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:03:50pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

Christine O'Donnell got into trouble for using her PAC money for pure personal benefit, to pay her rent. Isn't that exactly what Sarah is doing here, using her PAC to fund an all expenses paid vacation that isn't tied to any actual campaign or legitimate political activity? She's glad handing her worshipers and yucking it up, but it's not clear if there's any real point beyond bolstering her personal media brand. If she doesn't end up running, the political action will have been what, exactly?

I think O'Donnell used campaign funds, not PAC money. There is a difference.

81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:04:46pm

No, no my headline-generating publicity grabs I put together of my own volition are never about me. I am a conservative who believes in altruism. /noreally

82 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:05:05pm

re: #70 Floral Giraffe

You will survive!

I WANT MORE DRUBBING!

83 sagehen  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:05:10pm

re: #22 Spocomptonite

...is Greta Van Susteren on the bus just because Palin randomly pointed to her at the White House press gala dinner thingy when asked who she thought the best/most influential journalist was?

Besides being Fox colleagues... Greta's husband is one of Sarah's top advisors/her media strategist.

84 Kronocide  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:05:22pm

Sarah 'led' a political movement? Which one was that?

85 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:06:23pm

re: #79 Slumbering Behemoth

America ain't buying her phony, "folksy charm" act any more. They can see her for the plastic statue she is.

Statuesque beauty.

86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:07:52pm

re: #77 b_sharp

Dig the truck on this babe.

I was told there would be a babe.

87 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:08:51pm
88 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:09:05pm

re: #86 Slumbering Behemoth

I was told there would be a babe.

Sorry.

89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:09:12pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

Christine O'Donnell got into trouble for using her PAC money for pure personal benefit, to pay her rent. Isn't that exactly what Sarah is doing here, using her PAC to fund an all expenses paid vacation that isn't tied to any actual campaign or legitimate political activity? She's glad handing her worshipers and yucking it up, but it's not clear if there's any real point beyond bolstering her personal media brand. If she doesn't end up running, the political action will have been what, exactly?

You're getting at why the punditocracy keeps saying there will be a candidacy announcement at the end of this traveling vaudeville act. I guess we'll all have to wait with bated breath to see whether she'll do that or just sit around and king-make again.

After observing the Palin phenomenon for 2.5 years it wouldn't surprise me if she did either.

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:09:58pm

re: #88 b_sharp

Sorry.

Well played, sir.

91 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:10:23pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

[Link: palinherpderp.ytmnd.com...]

rotfl

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:10:58pm

re: #15 rwmofo

lead a political movement that helped take back the Congress,

In a midterm election, and cost the GOP the Senate, but I guess that's OK.

93 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:11:01pm

re: #84 BigPapa

Sarah 'led' a political movement? Which one was that?

The great Lemming/Parrot Fail of '09.

94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:11:45pm

re: #84 BigPapa

Sarah 'led' a political movement? Which one was that?

The "movement" of dumb bigots with misspelled picket signs, who were threatening to go off the rails with rage. She led them right back into the Republican party.

95 sagehen  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:12:04pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

Christine O'Donnell got into trouble for using her PAC money for pure personal benefit, to pay her rent. Isn't that exactly what Sarah is doing here, using her PAC to fund an all expenses paid vacation that isn't tied to any actual campaign or legitimate political activity? She's glad handing her worshipers and yucking it up, but it's not clear if there's any real point beyond bolstering her personal media brand. If she doesn't end up running, the political action will have been what, exactly?

Stephen Colbert addressed this tonight with his FEC lawyer; officially declared candidates are subject to a different set of rules than testing-the-waters, thinking-about-running, rumored-to-be-potentials.

96 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:12:35pm

re: #85 b_sharp

Statuesque beauty.

That one looks like Bachmann if she were a bottle blonde instead of a bottle brunette.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:12:57pm

re: #24 drool

...except it's all about her...why would she be advertising it and informing the media ahead of time? Child number two is starting to go sideways (Willow) and rather than parenting she's off "enhancing" her image to garner bigger bucks.

Willow is child number three, actually.

98 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:13:33pm

re: #96 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That one looks like Bachmann if she were a bottle blonde instead of a bottle brunette.

They are intellectual equals.

99 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:13:52pm

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:14:17pm

re: #95 sagehen

Stephen Colbert addressed this tonight with his FEC lawyer; officially declared candidates are subject to a different set of rules than testing-the-waters, thinking-about-running, rumored-to-be-potentials.

PAC's are different. And both sides do it.
[Link: tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

101 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:14:35pm

re: #93 Slumbering Behemoth

The great Lemming/Parrot Fail of '09.

ROFLMAO!

102 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:14:54pm

re: #99 Charles

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

Who is Earnest?
/

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:14:57pm

re: #36 Floral Giraffe

So, if a couple of right wing radio talking heads, supported Sarah the 1/2 Governor, how many folks think she'd be a viable candidate?
Isn't this, after all, her trial balloon?
(Pass me the darts...)

I don't think she can get there from here.

104 Targetpractice  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:15:42pm

re: #84 BigPapa

Sarah 'led' a political movement? Which one was that?

The GOP over the cliff of wingnuttery. Wasn't her "batting average" last year of candidates she endorsed something like 50/50?

105 JamesWI  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:15:55pm

Just posted my first page in a while, from something I saw on Colbert this evening. Sarah Palin proudly repeats her daughter's comment that George Washington must have worked really hard to keep Mount Vernon going...

Link here

Ugh... the state of our country.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:16:03pm

re: #44 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A hit documentary series which hemorrhaged viewers like a hemophiliac stumbling thru a cutlery shop and failed to get picked up for a second season.

But did apparently answer some questions about her qualifications as an outdoorswoman.

107 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:16:24pm

re: #99 Charles

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

The Stalkers are leading the Asshat Parade as usual. Phony sympathy for me (for being "beaten down by the cult", then right back to the hate spew.

108 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:16:41pm

re: #80 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think O'Donnell used campaign funds, not PAC money. There is a difference.

Charlie Rangel got into trouble for using his PAC funds for his legal defense. Now since Sarah is a half-term quitter not currently elected to any office she's not governed by the House Ethics Committee like Rangel is, but it's still highly suspect behavior IMHO.

109 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:16:50pm

re: #84 BigPapa

Sarah 'led' a political movement? Which one was that?

The one to keep John McCain out of the White House.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:16:54pm

re: #52 MikeySDCA

There is a familiar scenario these days.
A White Trash family gets a moment of media attention, usually through a most regrettable tragedy. The family of Elizabeth Smart has been particularly conspicuous.
A member of the family discovers that s/he has never seen a microphone or camera that s/he doesn't like. A publicity blitz follows, in which the family and the media compete in making asses of themselves.
Sarah Palin is a weird analog to this. She was not much stuff as Governor of Alaska, then was chosen to the bewilderment of everyone as McCain's VP candidate. Suddenly, she was on every broadcast except the Food Channel, and she loved it.
She still does.

I've never thought of Elizabeth Smart's family as trash.

111 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:16:59pm

re: #99 Charles

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

Keep the sharpened sticks handy.

112 Targetpractice  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:17:03pm

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who is Earnest?
/

I believe he means this fellow.

/

113 CarleeCork  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:17:17pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

Christine O'Donnell got into trouble for using her PAC money for pure personal benefit, to pay her rent. Isn't that exactly what Sarah is doing here, using her PAC to fund an all expenses paid vacation that isn't tied to any actual campaign or legitimate political activity? She's glad handing her worshipers and yucking it up, but it's not clear if there's any real point beyond bolstering her personal media brand. If she doesn't end up running, the political action will have been what, exactly?


How exactly has she gotten in trouble? Has she done any jail time? Paid any fines? Lost her home? While we're talking about trouble; how's Tom DeLay doing? Is he in trouble too? I have yet to see any of these assholes suffer for their crimes.

114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:17:51pm

re: #99 Charles

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

Yeah, that's what results when you poke fun at Joan of Arc 2.0.

Her chivalrous suitors come out of the woodwork to defend poor, beleaguered, martyred her.

115 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:18:17pm

re: #99 Charles

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

You're over the target.

116 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:18:18pm

re: #104 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The GOP over the cliff of wingnuttery. Wasn't her "batting average" last year of candidates she endorsed something like 50/50?

I have a Loonie in my pocket with the same record.

117 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:18:18pm

re: #108 goddamnedfrank

Charlie Rangel got into trouble for using his PAC funds for his legal defense. Now since Sarah is a half-term quitter not currently elected to any office she's not governed by the House Ethics Committee like Rangel is, but it's still highly suspect behavior IMHO.

Suspect? Yes. But the legality is the issue.

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:18:37pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never thought of Elizabeth Smart's family as trash.

White trash girls don't learn to play the harp. They're actually affluent, if you read up.

119 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:18:46pm

re: #105 JamesWI

Just posted my first page in a while, from something I saw on Colbert this evening. Sarah Palin proudly repeats her daughter's comment that George Washington must have worked really hard to keep Mount Vernon going...

Link here

Ugh... the state of our country.

You can give Piper a pass on that one because she's just a kid, but her mother should know better.

120 jaunte  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:19:13pm

re: #99 Charles

Whee! The right wing bloggers are starting to go after me in earnest tonight.

Stay itch-free

121 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:19:37pm

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

Who is Earnest?
/

Dunno, but it's enormously important to be him.

122 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:20:10pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno, but it's enormously important to be him.

Damn. I was just about to point that out. You beat me to it.

123 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:20:21pm

Ugh. A rather disgusting bit of news from what used to be near my old stomping grounds about 20 years ago.

Christian community threatens violence against atheist student

On the eve of his graduation, the atheist student contacted the school superintendent to let him know that he opposed the inclusion of a prayer at the graduation ceremony. He pointed out that government-sponsored prayer in the public schools was unconstitutional and legally forbidden – and that he would be contacting the ACLU if it went ahead. The school agreed to substitute it with a moment of silent reflection, which was subsequently scuppered by a Christian student.

Then Fowler’s name, and his role in this incident, was leaked. As a direct result:

1) Fowler has been hounded, pilloried, and ostracized by his community.

2) One of Fowler’s teachers has publicly demeaned him.

3) Fowler has been physically threatened. Students have threatened to “jump him” at graduation practice, and he has received multiple threats of bodily harm, and even death threats.

4) Fowler’s parents cut off his financial support, kicked him out of the house, and threw his belongings onto the front porch.

Given what I know about the area, I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr. Fowler was subjected to threats and harassment.

124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:20:40pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

I've never thought of Elizabeth Smart's family as trash.

"White trash" is like the n-word to me and I don't use it. Though, I understand they call themselves that.

125 Turkey Jihad  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:21:02pm

A Sarah Palin haiku...

You all keep watchin',
Buyin' my books, you betcha!
Cash money, Tea Bags!

126 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:21:04pm

re: #121 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno, but it's enormously important to be him.

Its important to be frank and earnest.

I'm Frank in New York and Earnest in Chicago.

/rimshot

127 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:21:23pm

The Esther's political doppelganger was on Fox and Friends:

Lots of mutual love going on there.

How long will it last?

Michelle Bachmann warning of "fantasy economics"... gah.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:21:44pm

re: #118 EmmmieG

White trash girls don't learn to play the harp. They're actually affluent, if you read up.

People with money can be trashy, but the Smarts seem like pretty nice folks all around.

129 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:22:03pm

Bachmann "I want us to focus on cures...."

Gah.

130 JamesWI  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:22:20pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

You can give Piper a pass on that one because she's just a kid, but her mother should know better.

Yeah, she's a little girl, so she gets a pass.

But good lord. How can she actually write that without even a hint of recognition? It's like Sarah doesn't even know that the practice of slavery existed.

Actually, given her level of intelligence, I wouldn't put that past her.

Not to mention the team of people that has to read her crap before it gets posted on that site.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:22:38pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

You can give Piper a pass on that one because she's just a kid, but her mother should know better.

Yeah. The kid should be off the hook for that one.

132 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:22:43pm

re: #129 freetoken

Bachmann "I want us to focus on cures..."

Gah.

Like laying on hands, talking in tongues and snake handling?

133 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:22:57pm

re: #125 Kid A

A Sarah Palin haiku...

You all keep watchin',
Buyin' my books, you betcha!
Cash money, Tea Bags!

Ok computer.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:23:16pm

re: #123 RadicalModerate

OY.

135 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:23:39pm

Bed. Nighty.

136 engineer cat  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:23:54pm

re: #123 RadicalModerate

Ugh. A rather disgusting bit of news from what used to be near my old stomping grounds about 20 years ago.

Christian community threatens violence against atheist student

Given what I know about the area, I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr. Fowler was subjected to threats and harassment.

no excuse too small for some people to declare somebody an outsider and harass them mercelessly

137 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:24:38pm

Palin worship = anti-intellectualism.
Palin worship = emotionalism.
Palin worship = cult of personality.

138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:25:05pm

re: #130 JamesWI

Yeah, she's a little girl, so she gets a pass.

But good lord. How can she actually write that without even a hint of recognition? It's like Sarah doesn't even know that the practice of slavery existed.

Actually, given her level of intelligence, I wouldn't put that past her.

Not to mention the team of people that has to read her crap before it gets posted on that site.

Oh, they know it exists. All you have to do is utter the word "slavery" and like pavlov's dogs they will scream "democrat party!!!!1!!".

All while waving Confederate flags and going to Southern Evening balls.

139 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:25:22pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like laying on hands, talking in tongues and snake handling?

She goes on about polio. Gah See my recent Page on Bachmann and Polio.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:25:34pm

re: #130 JamesWI

Yeah, she's a little girl, so she gets a pass.

But good lord. How can she actually write that without even a hint of recognition? It's like Sarah doesn't even know that the practice of slavery existed.

Actually, given her level of intelligence, I wouldn't put that past her.

Not to mention the team of people that has to read her crap before it gets posted on that site.

Managing a giant plantation full of slaves can be EXHAUSTING.

//

141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:25:39pm

re: #123 RadicalModerate

Ugh. A rather disgusting bit of news from what used to be near my old stomping grounds about 20 years ago.

Christian community threatens violence against atheist student

Given what I know about the area, I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr. Fowler was subjected to threats and harassment.

His parents???

Aside from the fact that I'm surprised anyone still has a prayer at the actual graduation--you hold an optional baccalaureate on a different day for that--I'm flabbergasted that his parents would so quickly throw away their own child.

I don't get that.

142 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:25:49pm

Too old.
Too tired.
Bed calling.
'Night.

143 Turkey Jihad  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:26:08pm

re: #133 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Prefer Amnesiac more.

144 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:26:19pm

re: #139 freetoken

She goes on about polio. Gah See my recent Page on Bachmann and Polio.

Polio?

How the hell did polio get back into the national discussion?

145 engineer cat  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:26:21pm

like all politicians she's an empty vessel that people pour their hopes or frustrations in

that she is so extraordinarily empty just renders her a more fit instrument for this

146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:26:46pm

re: #132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Like laying on hands, talking in tongues and snake handling?

Dr. Jesus trumps actual healthcare, yes!

147 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:26:53pm

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

Didn't you visit some relatives in that neighborhood late last year? I remember you (or someone) posting about it, and took note since it was so close to where I used to live

148 JamesWI  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:27:04pm

re: #138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, they know it exists. All you have to do is utter the word "slavery" and like pavlov's dogs they will scream "democrat party!!!1!!".

All while waving Confederate flags and going to Southern Evening balls.

Maybe it's because they are physically incapable of saying anything that would paint any of the founding fathers in a negative light. Because they were all perfect people, and we need to "restore" our country to be just like them, instead of like this "other," Barack Obama.

149 b_sharp  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:27:06pm

re: #144 SanFranciscoZionist

Polio?

How the hell did polio get back into the national discussion?

Vaccination.

150 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:27:40pm

re: #146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Dr. Jesus trumps actual healthcare, yes!

If you get sick, its just part of God's plan, you dirty filthy sinner.

151 JamesWI  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:27:47pm

re: #148 JamesWI

Maybe it's because they are physically incapable of saying anything that would paint any of the founding fathers in a negative light. Because they were all perfect people, and we need to "restore" our country to be just like them, instead of like this "other," Barack Obama.

Except Thomas Jefferson. He was an ass.

152 goddamnedfrank  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:28:02pm

re: #118 EmmmieG

White trash girls don't learn to play the harp. They're actually affluent, if you read up.

Not all "harps" are associated with affluence.

153 Kragar  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:28:36pm

re: #149 b_sharp

Vaccination.

But noted immunologist and accredited vaccination expert Jenny McCarthy said vaccinations were bad!

154 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:29:03pm

Christie still says "No", but this time over a meal of beef and corn:

Christie tells Iowa donors he's still not running

155 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:29:38pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

You can give Piper a pass on that one because she's just a kid, but her mother should know better.

I agree, but damnit her parents should be, you know, teaching her about this kind of stuff.

But then I remember who the parents in question are and simply pray for the sake of all of their children.

156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:29:49pm

re: #139 freetoken

She goes on about polio. Gah See my recent Page on Bachmann and Polio.

What, did she get mad when she found out it can be prevented?

How ever will poor God carry out curses on the 3rd and 4th generations with all these preventions and cures!

157 sagehen  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:30:14pm

re: #124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

"White trash" is like the n-word to me and I don't use it. Though, I understand they call themselves that.

We can remove the racial component by saying trailer trash....

//

158 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:30:19pm

re: #129 freetoken

Bachmann "I want us to focus on cures..."

Gah.

Cures for the cooties that you have?
Yeah, Baby!

159 [deleted]  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:30:40pm
160 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:30:47pm

re: #135 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bed. Nighty.

Sleep tighty!

161 engineer cat  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:31:22pm

re: #154 freetoken

Christie still says "No", but this time over a meal of beef and corn:

Christie tells Iowa donors he's still not running

he needs to get more practice in on pissing on high school teachers

162 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:31:44pm

For one of my sibling's baccalaureate, my mother sewed large flags/banners with various different religious symbols on them. She carefully avoided LDS symbols, partly because we don't really have one official symbol. (There are a number of unofficial ones used here and there, like on the gravestones of LDS servicemen).

At the service, she ended up sitting behind two women who knew a Mormon had sewn them, but didn't know her personally. They were trying to figure out which one was Mormon. They thought it might be the one that was actually a symbol from an Eastern religion.

163 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:32:16pm

re: #123 RadicalModerate

Ugh. A rather disgusting bit of news from what used to be near my old stomping grounds about 20 years ago.

Christian community threatens violence against atheist student

Given what I know about the area, I have no doubt whatsoever that Mr. Fowler was subjected to threats and harassment.

This is what religion is really all about, when it comes right down to it. Kicking the heathen out.

164 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:33:00pm

re: #150 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If you get sick, its just part of God's plan, you dirty filthy sinner.

Well, unless you have enuf faith!

In Michele Bachmann's corner of xianity, if you just have enuf faith, you can be rich like Sarah Palin and Donald Trump, the moral standard-bearers for the Republican party.

You can tell god has blessed them because how else could they get away with those heinous hairstyles?

165 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:34:11pm

re: #141 EmmmieG

His parents???

Aside from the fact that I'm surprised anyone still has a prayer at the actual graduation--you hold an optional baccalaureate on a different day for that--I'm flabbergasted that his parents would so quickly throw away their own child.

I don't get that.

That is evil - in person, up close and personal. And I'm sure they look in the mirror in the morning and say "What a good Christian I am!". Uhm, yeah right. "By their fruits" & "Better a millstone around your neck" slimeballs.

Feh. It get's painful, sometimes, to know that those who abuse Jesus, & his teachings, the most are the ones most people hear about as being "Christian".

166 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:36:53pm

re: #165 wlewisiii

That is evil - in person, up close and personal. And I'm sure they look in the mirror in the morning and say "What a good Christian I am!". Uhm, yeah right. "By their fruits" & "Better a millstone around your neck" slimeballs.

Feh. It get's painful, sometimes, to know that those who abuse Jesus, & his teachings, the most are the ones most people hear about as being "Christian".

Yep.

167 engineer cat  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:37:27pm

i want to join the church of latter day surfers, also known as mermen

168 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:38:41pm

re: #165 wlewisiii

That is evil - in person, up close and personal. And I'm sure they look in the mirror in the morning and say "What a good Christian I am!". Uhm, yeah right. "By their fruits" & "Better a millstone around your neck" slimeballs.

Feh. It get's painful, sometimes, to know that those who abuse Jesus, & his teachings, the most are the ones most people hear about as being "Christian".

I think they represent their faith more accurately than others. Interpretations might have changed, but the scripture it's based on hasn't. Unlike the Constitution it was never intended to be "flexible."

Can't spell fundamentalist without fundamental.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:39:58pm

re: #147 RadicalModerate

Didn't you visit some relatives in that neighborhood late last year? I remember you (or someone) posting about it, and took note since it was so close to where I used to live

Northeastern Louisiana, last summer, yeah. Outside Bastrop.

Watching "True Blood", I realized with some amusement that Bon Temps must be somewhere around there, since when people go into the city, it's Monroe.

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:40:25pm

re: #151 JamesWI

Except Thomas Jefferson. He was an ass.

He had his moments, certainly.

171 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:40:43pm

re: #148 JamesWI

Maybe it's because they are physically incapable of saying anything that would paint any of the founding fathers in a negative light. Because they were all perfect people, and we need to "restore" our country to be just like them, instead of like this "other," Barack Obama.

Lol yeah, we have to restore the country back to slaveholding. Do not pass the Civil Rights movement, do not pass Jim Crow, go directly to re-legalized slavery.

David Barton, the favorite theologian of Bachmann and Beck, is all for it. [Link: www.wallbuilders.com...] The dumb rwnj parrot the revisionist idea that the 3/5ths clause was an antislavery statement from him.

Thing is, they have to completely ignore the slaveholding history of the FF's, just like Palin talks only to Fox Nooz. It's as if they think if they don't talk about it, it goes away.

Oh yeah and anyone who brings it up is "a racist" for making whites look bad. /rollseyes

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:42:29pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Northeastern Louisiana, last summer, yeah. Outside Bastrop.

Watching "True Blood", I realized with some amusement that Bon Temps must be somewhere around there, since when people go into the city, it's Monroe.

And I ranted, upon return. Because Northeastern Louisiana and I did not get along, and I spent an entire week being the Perfect Daughter In Law.

173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:43:22pm

re: #141 EmmmieG

His parents???

Aside from the fact that I'm surprised anyone still has a prayer at the actual graduation--you hold an optional baccalaureate on a different day for that--I'm flabbergasted that his parents would so quickly throw away their own child.

I don't get that.

You don't know conservative christians very well, then.

What do you think traditional family values are based on, if not estrangement, violence, and punishment for non-conformity?

This is what conservative Christians call "love". They are perverts.

174 funky chicken  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:44:36pm

re: #139 freetoken

She goes on about polio. Gah See my recent Page on Bachmann and Polio.

no link...I'm curious, even though I know I might be sorry...what on earth does Michelle Bachmann have to say about polio?

175 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:44:58pm

re: #173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You don't know conservative christians very well, then.

What do you think traditional family values are based on, if not estrangement, violence, and punishment for non-conformity?

This is what conservative Christians call "love". They are perverts.

These are the kinds of people that effectively run my country.

176 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:45:11pm

re: #168 laZardo

I think they represent their faith more accurately than others. Interpretations might have changed, but the scripture it's based on hasn't. Unlike the Constitution it was never intended to be "flexible."

Can't spell fundamentalist without fundamental.

Yes, I know, you're a religious atheist. That's ok, all religions are allowed here. //

177 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:45:12pm

re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What, did she get mad when she found out it can be prevented?

Read

178 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:46:53pm

re: #173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You don't know conservative christians very well, then.

What do you think traditional family values are based on, if not estrangement, violence, and punishment for non-conformity?

This is what conservative Christians call "love". They are perverts.


I have a couple of siblings who rejected all of my parents values (at least for a while).

We tried to show them more love. (While, simultaneously, trying to learn how not to enable addicts.)

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:47:52pm

re: #173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You don't know conservative christians very well, then.

What do you think traditional family values are based on, if not estrangement, violence, and punishment for non-conformity?

This is what conservative Christians call "love". They are perverts.

I know a bunch of conservative Christians.

None of them would pull this kind of shit on a child of theirs.

I know some people who've had shit like this pulled on them. Families like this are out there. But they come in all races, colors, creeds and orientations.

180 TedStriker  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:48:04pm

re: #16 Charles

I don't think she's actually good at promoting herself either. She just lucked into being a right wing heroine, and she's riding the tiger with no idea where it's going.

A maverick without a clue...

181 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:48:32pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

He had his moments, certainly.

Yeah but the real reason Sarah Palin would not like him is you can't sum him up with a slogan. Learning about him actually requires knowing and understanding things, and the makes her head hurt. Knowledge is teh hard.

182 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:49:24pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a bunch of conservative Christians.

None of them would pull this kind of shit on a child of theirs.

I know some people who've had shit like this pulled on them. Families like this are out there. But they come in all races, colors, creeds and orientations.

My evangelical Christian aunt has not disowned her lesbian daughter.

Neither has anyone else in the family, either.

183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:50:06pm

re: #178 EmmmieG

I have a couple of siblings who rejected all of my parents values (at least for a while).

We tried to show them more love. (While, simultaneously, trying to learn how not to enable addicts.)

If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

Because that is all conservative Christian shove "love" is. There is nothing more to it than that. Conservative Christians are addicted to it.

184 Lidane  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:52:55pm

re: #16 Charles

I don't think she's actually good at promoting herself either. She just lucked into being a right wing heroine, and she's riding the tiger with no idea where it's going.

Knowing where it's going would require a level of self-awareness that Caribou Barbie has never shown.

Somewhere along the way, she started believing the bullshit that her stans have been telling her for the past three years. She thinks that she's actually clever and that she has something to offer. It will be a rude awakening for her if she actually decides to run for POTUS.

185 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:53:19pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a bunch of conservative Christians.

None of them would pull this kind of shit on a child of theirs.

I know some people who've had shit like this pulled on them. Families like this are out there. But they come in all races, colors, creeds and orientations.

That, they do. I ought to know, having had it pulled on me.

I can guarantee you, though, it will be conservative parents who pull this shit on a child of theirs, especially over religious belief.

186 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:53:49pm

re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

Because that is all conservative Christian shove "love" is. There is nothing more to it than that. Conservative Christians are addicted to it.

Must be nice to be so certain of the absolute truth about the world. I'm told "Conservative" Christians think that way, too. I couldn't say ...

187 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:54:48pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Northeastern Louisiana, last summer, yeah. Outside Bastrop.

Watching "True Blood", I realized with some amusement that Bon Temps must be somewhere around there, since when people go into the city, it's Monroe.

Hmm. Never watched the series - I may have to take a look.

However, I can say without fear of contradiction that they didn't do enough research into the area if your description is true - while I live there, one of the jokes going around was that the biggest excitement happening regarding Monroe was the act of leaving.

188 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:55:27pm

re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.


Umm, I 'm guessing that's not what she means, idiot. Unreal.

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:56:13pm

re: #182 EmmmieG

My evangelical Christian aunt has not disowned her lesbian daughter.

Neither has anyone else in the family, either.

That's swell.

Too bad for all the others whose families have, due to their inabilities or outright refusals to conform to conservative Christian bigot norms.

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:56:20pm

re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

Because that is all conservative Christian shove "love" is. There is nothing more to it than that. Conservative Christians are addicted to it.

And how do we define a conservative Christian? If they don't engage in such behavior are they not conservative, or not Christian?

191 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:56:24pm

re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

Because that is all conservative Christian shove "love" is. There is nothing more to it than that. Conservative Christians are addicted to it.

More abuse? They were never abused to begin with. There was never parent on child violence.

I have to stop here because I can't say anything else without talking about what my siblings actually did, and I don't want to do that, I love them. I'm only going to say that what my parents wouldn't allow was reasonable.

There was never a threat of exclusion. In fact, we wanted them around more than they wanted to be around.

192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:57:14pm

re: #188 Claire

Umm, I 'm guessing that's not what she means, idiot. Unreal.

Why not let the person speak for herself, Mensa Member?

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:57:57pm

re: #187 RadicalModerate

Hmm. Never watched the series - I may have to take a look.

However, I can say without fear of contradiction that they didn't do enough research into the area if your description is true - while I live there, one of the jokes going around was that the biggest excitement happening regarding Monroe was the act of leaving.

Well, the vampire bar is there--"Fangtasia"--the Civil War vet vampire apologizes for the name by explaining that puns were 'the highest form of humor' when many of the patrons were alive.

And one of the characters goes to house parties there.

194 Dark_Falcon  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:58:15pm

Goodnight, all.

195 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:59:09pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

Goodnight, all.

Take care, sir.

196 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:59:12pm

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

I know a bunch of conservative Christians.

None of them would pull this kind of shit on a child of theirs.

I know some people who've had shit like this pulled on them. Families like this are out there. But they come in all races, colors, creeds and orientations.

Unfortunately, I know people who would - and did - pull EXACTLY this sort of crap. Including people in my (not immediate) family.

197 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 9:59:41pm

re: #192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why not presume that her family is not a bunch of monsters? She seems perfectly nice.

Emmmie, you don't have to put up with this ugly crap from this guy.

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:00:48pm

re: #192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why not let the person speak for herself, Mensa Member?

Personal attacks are not going to improve any conversation.

199 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:01:05pm

There's no need for anyone to get angry here.

We've all had different experiences. I grew up in a family that is very accepting and loving. (My parents actually had to go to counseling to get better at saying no and making it stick.)

Other people didn't. I accept that. From time to time people share their growing up experiences here, and some people have had horrible experiences.

It makes me sad.

200 engineer cat  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:01:14pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

And how do we define a conservative Christian? If they don't engage in such behavior are they not conservative, or not Christian?

they're neither conservative, christian, nor the holy roman empire

201 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:03:43pm

re: #172 SanFranciscoZionist

And I ranted, upon return. Because Northeastern Louisiana and I did not get along, and I spent an entire week being the Perfect Daughter In Law.

Me no much like NE La, myself, with the exception of one place.
I've visited Texas and Florida more often than I've been in that area of the state.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:05:55pm

re: #196 RadicalModerate

Unfortunately, I know people who would - and did - pull EXACTLY this sort of crap. Including people in my (not immediate) family.

Sure, there are plenty of them out there. I know people who had to leave home over crap like this--usually coming out, rather than atheism. Know one woman whose father beat the crap out of her when she became a vegetarian. Not all of these people were pious, but they certainly had a hard-core commitment to brooking no weird behavior.

I also knew, in college, a teenage boy who got thrown out of the commune his folks were living in because he'd broken the rules by not paying back some money to the adult members. These people were the farthest thing from Christian conservatives, they were just assholes who chose their community over their kid.

I also know conservative Christians who have suffered greatly (and to my belief, unneccessarily) over their child's way in life, but keep loving and supporting.

203 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:08:25pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

And how do we define a conservative Christian?

There are lots of kinds of conservative Christians.

Michele Bachmann and David Barton, both Oral Roberts University grads, are one kind, the Pentecostal/Neo-Charismatic kind.

Dumb bigots like Glenn Beck and his hero Bishop Ezra Taft Benson are another type, LDS/Moron Church

The Phelps family, an offshoot of Primitive Baptists are more. They make up the infamous Westboro Baptist Church

More classy Baptists can be found in the Independent Fundamental Baptist loose association of anti-humanity whackjobs like jesus-is-savior.com

Then, there is the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC), led by Richard Land, who gave his blessing to the McCain campaign to unleash Palin on the world.

How about the church of Christ (no, they do not capitalize the "c" in "church"). A bunch of them think musical instruments in the sanctuary are evil.

Those are just a few conservative Christian denominations. I left off the Churches of God, Nazarenes, Salvation Army, and did not delineate the differences between Fundamentalism and Evangelicalism.

And this is just within Protestantism.

There is also a universe of conservative Christianity in Orthodoxy. And the conservatism of the Roman Catholic Church is kind of legendary, though there are many exceptions within Catholicism, such as Catholics for a Free Choice.

If they don't engage in such behavior are they not conservative, or not Christian?

Engage in what behavior? I am going by conservative Christians' own self definitions.

A lot of their behavior behind closed doors, well, that is another matter altogether.

204 TedStriker  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:08:36pm

re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Go sit on a snake.

205 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:08:41pm

re: #199 EmmmieG

Thanks, there's no need to get angry but it happens anyway.

This guy can work out his babyhood angst and trauma, shake his little fist and rage at the world all he wants, but to point it at you as if you or your family was the source of his "issues" is just broad-brush bigotry. How dare he? Seriously, you don't deserve that. You shouldn't even have to defend yourself.

206 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:10:04pm

re: #191 EmmmieG

More abuse? They were never abused to begin with. There was never parent on child violence.

I have to stop here because I can't say anything else without talking about what my siblings actually did, and I don't want to do that, I love them. I'm only going to say that what my parents wouldn't allow was reasonable.

There was never a threat of exclusion. In fact, we wanted them around more than they wanted to be around.

I would not want to be around conservative Christians, either.

They are legendary for treating people like crud, including each other.

A lot of them do not spare their families.

207 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:10:47pm

re: #205 Claire

Thanks, there's no need to get angry but it happens anyway.

This guy can work out his babyhood angst and trauma, shake his little fist and rage at the world all he wants, but to point it at you as if you or your family was the source of his "issues" is just broad-brush bigotry. How dare he? Seriously, you don't deserve that. You shouldn't even have to defend yourself.

No, but I don't mind expanding on the topic. I've been around enough people who had a very different upbringing than my own to know that the hurt can run very deep.

208 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:11:00pm

re: #203 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Way to not answer the question, but sure, I get it, they're EEEEVIL.

Moving on now.

209 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:11:09pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

Personal attacks are not going to improve any conversation.

When someone personally attacks me, they will be personally attacked right back.

210 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:11:44pm

re: #192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Rude, crude & socially unacceptable.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:12:00pm

re: #206 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would not want to be around conservative Christians, either.

They are legendary for treating people like crud, including each other.

A lot of them do not spare their families.

You do realize that you're not attacking any group in general now, you're attacking Emmmie's family? And essentially accusing her of lying about her personal experience?

212 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:12:05pm

re: #204 talon_262

re: #192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Go sit on a snake.

And if I don't?

213 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:12:27pm

re: #205 Claire

Thanks, there's no need to get angry but it happens anyway.

This guy can work out his babyhood angst and trauma, shake his little fist and rage at the world all he wants, but to point it at you as if you or your family was the source of his "issues" is just broad-brush bigotry. How dare he? Seriously, you don't deserve that. You shouldn't even have to defend yourself.

Why did you presume I am male?

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:13:22pm

re: #209 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

When someone personally attacks me, they will be personally attacked right back.

Emmie attacked you? Claire attacked you?

215 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:13:29pm

re: #204 talon_262

re: #192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Go sit on a snake.

It already has, and the vipertuitounous is showing.

216 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:14:13pm

Sheesh.

I'm just basically lurking at the moment, but it seems Mr. or Ms. O'Crap woke up cranky this morning.

217 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:14:21pm

NOt about Sista Sarah? Tell that to her acolytes.

Greta has to be needing meds to be on that bus.

How is everyone?

218 TedStriker  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:14:28pm

re: #206 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would not want to be around conservative Christians, either.

They are legendary for treating people like crud, including each other.

A lot of them do not spare their families.

Emmie didn't do shit or say anything untoward to you and you're acting like an ass to them?

Emmie, I trust...you, not so much.

Now, kindly piss off.

219 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:14:41pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Emmie attacked you? Claire attacked you?

Total side note: When I created the facebook account I used to friend Charles for his LGF facebook account, it wouldn't let me do the 3 m's. It wouldn't accept it.

I felt crushed. I've grown attached to that extra m, mistake though it might have been.

220 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:14:50pm

re: #206 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would not want to be around conservative Christians, either.

They are legendary for treating people like crud, including each other.

A lot of them do not spare their families.

What do you base this comment on?

221 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:16:01pm

re: #208 SanFranciscoZionist

Way to not answer the question, but sure, I get it, they're EEEVIL.

I don't believe in EEEVIL.

I did answer the question. Perhaps it wasn't the answer you wanted, or perhaps that wasn't what you were really asking.

222 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:16:13pm

re: #212 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And if I don't?

You already did.
Now, justify your logic, if you can...

223 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:16:57pm

re: #213 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why did you presume I am male?

Maybe you are; maybe you aren't - physically at least - but you're sure acting like a male asshole tonight by modern American gender standards. I suppose it could be a gender bender game; it would explain much of the pain behind your rage.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:17:13pm

re: #220 Floral Giraffe

What do you base this comment on?

I mean, Lord knows I can come up with a bunch of examples of conservative Christians acting like horses' asses, both individually and in numbers. The problem is that I can come up with a lot of similar examples for a rather dizzying array of humanity. People are a little screwed up like that.

225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:17:15pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Emmie attacked you? Claire attacked you?

Lol if someone calls me an idiot, they will get called a Mensa Member in return.

Is that alright with you?

226 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:17:44pm

LOL!
No Reine Crankypants!
*waves*

227 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:18:05pm

oh geez, I'm going to escape into fiction.

I'll check-back later.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:18:23pm

re: #221 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't believe in EEEVIL.

I did answer the question. Perhaps it wasn't the answer you wanted, or perhaps that wasn't what you were really asking.

Or, perhaps you didn't understand what I was asking, or perhaps you didn't want to acknowledge the moral underpinnings of the question, or perhaps you just had something else you wanted to say...

229 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:18:31pm

re: #225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol if someone calls me an idiot, they will get called a Mensa Member in return.

Is that alright with you?

Sure, Jenius!

230 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:18:34pm

re: #226 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
No Reine Crankypants!
*waves*

*waves back!*
Heya, Flo!

231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:18:47pm

re: #223 wlewisiii

Maybe you are; maybe you aren't

If you have a quesion, why not just ask?

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:18:58pm

re: #225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol if someone calls me an idiot, they will get called a Mensa Member in return.

Is that alright with you?

God, I love these ones. Zero to 60 rage.

233 TedStriker  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:19:16pm

re: #213 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why did you presume I am male?

Whatever you are, you seem to have some mommy/daddy issues. If that's the case, that's betwen you and them, not you and Emmmie, who did nothing to you but draw your fire.

You may resume cordially pissing off....

234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:20:11pm

re: #222 Floral Giraffe

You already did.
Now, justify your logic, if you can...

No one has to justify anything to me, so please justify why I must justify anything to you. Can we please move on?

235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:20:51pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

Or, perhaps you didn't understand what I was asking, or perhaps you didn't want to acknowledge the moral underpinnings of the question, or perhaps you just had something else you wanted to say...

Or perhaps you could just ask what you want to know.

236 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:20:57pm

re: #231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If you have a quesion, why not just ask?

Because I couldn't give a rat's ass since I don't care to invite you into my bed based on your behavior tonight?

Trust me a shrink is cheaper than whatever you're spending on self medication.

237 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:20:58pm

re: #231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If you have a quesion, why not just ask?

OK, why are you posting here?
What do you hope to accomplish?

238 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:21:21pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I did come out of the gate calling him/her/it an idiot. And I stand behind that comment, lol.

239 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:21:55pm

re: #233 talon_262

Whatever you are, you seem to have some mommy/daddy issues. If that's the case, that's betwen you and them, not you and Emmmie, who did nothing to you but draw your fire.

You may resume cordially pissing off...

I will when you will, how's that.

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:22:40pm

re: #235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or perhaps you could just ask what you want to know.

I did.

241 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:23:03pm

re: #225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol if someone calls me an idiot, they will get called a Mensa Member in return.

Is that alright with you?

You can say whatever you want; don't expect everybody to be OK with it.

The "idiot" comment was in response to your original over-the-top belligerence and insults toward EmmmieG, who was trying to have a rational conversation with you.

And instead of backing off, you've become angrier and angrier.

I'm sorry for whatever happened to you in your life to cause you such grief that you will lash out at strangers trying to have a courteous conversation with you.
My life wasn't perfect, either.

But there comes a point in life where it's time to grow up, get over it, and move on.

242 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:23:16pm

re: #237 Floral Giraffe

OK, why are you posting here?
What do you hope to accomplish?

I'm posting here for the same reasons as anyone else. Hanging out, interesting stories, interesting people.

What do you hope to accomplish, posting under a story at LGF?

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:23:34pm

re: #238 Claire

Well, I did come out of the gate calling him/her/it an idiot. And I stand behind that comment, lol.

Fair enough. He/she/it may call you a Mensa member.

244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:24:34pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

I did.

And you did not get a satisfactory answer.

What else would you like to know about conservative Christians?

245 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:25:32pm

re: #239 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I will when you will, how's that.

How about you explain yourself, as trollishlesnes as you can?
Because, you know, you're new here, and challenging the site owner, and the regulars. We have time on the blog, as a priveledge,

246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:25:39pm

re: #236 wlewisiii

Because I couldn't give a rat's ass since I don't care to invite you into my bed based on your behavior tonight?

Trust me a shrink is cheaper than whatever you're spending on self medication.

Why in the world would I want to get in your bed? lol!

247 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:26:18pm

re: #238 Claire

Well, I did come out of the gate calling him/her/it an idiot. And I stand behind that comment, lol.

Well, likewise.

248 Claire  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:26:29pm

re: #236 wlewisiii

He thinks blog-therapy is cheap, but we're all paying for it tonight. Geeze.

249 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:26:37pm

Among the other things I inherited from my father was his need for 8 hours of more or less continuous sleep, so I will bid you all good night.

(The other prominent one, if you must know, is his sweet tooth.)

250 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:26:39pm

re: #244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And you did not get a satisfactory answer.

What else would you like to know about conservative Christians?

Still didn't read the original question, I see.

Frankly, I don't want to know anything else from you right now. You're angry, and you're feeling self-righteous. Take a shower or something.

251 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:27:03pm

re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why in the world would I want to get in your bed? lol!

Because you are a slut?

252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:28:58pm

re: #245 Floral Giraffe

How about you explain yourself, as trollishlesnes as you can?
Because, you know, you're new here, and challenging the site owner, and the regulars. We have time on the blog, as a priveledge,

Where did I challenge the site owner?

So a couple people don't like a couple things I said about "conservative Christians", bfd.

I'm sure the regulars can handle whatever I have to say. Are we not all adults?

253 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:29:27pm

I'm suddenly thankful for multi-tabbing keeping my attention off this conversation.

...yeah i'll shut up now :x

254 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:29:32pm

re: #251 Floral Giraffe

Because you are a slut?

Am I?

255 Four More Tears  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:30:39pm

Playing through Dead Space right now. Holy crap is this making my skin crawl.

256 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:30:42pm

re: #252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Where did I challenge the site owner?

So a couple people don't like a couple things I said about "conservative Christians", bfd.

I'm sure the regulars can handle whatever I have to say. Are we not all adults?

I don't think you're an adult, no.
But you think you're having fun, trashing anothers website.
Big man. NOT.

257 TedStriker  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:30:44pm

re: #252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Where did I challenge the site owner?

So a couple people don't like a couple things I said about "conservative Christians", bfd.

I'm sure the regulars can handle whatever I have to say. Are we not all adults?

Says the person throwing bombs at someone who did nothing to deserve them.

258 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:30:50pm

It always amazes me how similar trolls sound. Alaska Kim and OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin could be siblings given their style of communications though, I'm sure, their political beliefs appear to be somewhat different. But the same approach to a world that has "hurt" them. "Disappointed" them. Made them, yes, "VIctims".

All I can say is, "Would you like some nice Wisconsin colby with that whine?"

Oh, BTW, do you like Bach? I have a cantata playing right now. He knew god, I think, unlike either you or I.

259 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:31:21pm

re: #254 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Am I?

Yes, and quite the nasty one, in only the best ways!

260 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:33:41pm

re: #250 SanFranciscoZionist

Still didn't read the original question, I see.

I answered the original question.

The longer version of the answer was that there are lots of kinds of conservative Christians. Depends on just how specific you want to get. Each defines themselves accordingly.

But if the goal of the question was to get me to jump through some other hoop, why not just state it?

261 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:35:26pm

re: #258 wlewisiii

It always amazes me how similar trolls sound. Alaska Kim and OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin could be siblings given their style of communications though, I'm sure, their political beliefs appear to be somewhat different. But the same approach to a world that has "hurt" them. "Disappointed" them. Made them, yes, "VIctims".

All I can say is, "Would you like some nice Wisconsin colby with that whine?"

Oh, BTW, do you like Bach? I have a cantata playing right now. He knew god, I think, unlike either you or I.

Nah, victimhood is for cons. They are victims of everything, and everyone.

It's not for me.

If you have a question, though, why not just ask directly instead of talking as if I'm not here?

262 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:35:44pm

re: #255 JasonA

Playing through Dead Space right now. Holy crap is this making my skin crawl.

LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU

263 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:36:14pm

re: #260 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

LOL! You're the center of anyone's universe?
I think not!

264 Four More Tears  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:36:35pm

re: #262 laZardo

LOOK OUT BEHIND YOU

By right now I mean five minutes ago. :P And seriously, I'm on super-heightened alert status as I go through that ship...

265 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:36:54pm

re: #260 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I answered the original question.

The longer version of the answer was that there are lots of kinds of conservative Christians. Depends on just how specific you want to get. Each defines themselves accordingly.

But if the goal of the question was to get me to jump through some other hoop, why not just state it?

Oh, I'm not interested in making you jump through hoops.

266 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:38:56pm

re: #261 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Because you're only a troll.

Bach, OTOH, was greater than any of us.

267 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:39:08pm

re: #241 reine.de.tout

You can say whatever you want; don't expect everybody to be OK with it.

That's not my expectation, and I have no problems with that at all. re: #263 Floral Giraffe

LOL! You're the center of anyone's universe?
I think not!

Forget the universe, the post was about me. Am I not permitted to respond to it?

268 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:39:50pm

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I'm not interested in making you jump through hoops.

I am. Fiery ones, bet it can't make it, either!
Pretty please?

269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:40:04pm

re: #266 wlewisiii

Because you're only a troll.

Bach, OTOH, was greater than any of us.

Well, Bach is one my idols, so I would have to agree with that.

270 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:40:29pm

re: #267 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's not my expectation, and I have no problems with that at all. re: #263 Floral Giraffe

Forget the universe, the post was about me. Am I not permitted to respond to it?

LOL!
It's only about you, you, you!
P.S. You suck!

271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:41:12pm

re: #268 Floral Giraffe

I am. Fiery ones, bet it can't make it, either!
Pretty please?

Nah, that task would bore you, I guarantee it.

272 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:42:42pm

re: #271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Nah, that task would bore you, I guarantee it.

Bunny, is that you?

273 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:42:52pm

Well, folks, time to go. I've got a boy to get to school tomorrow along with many other things. Let me know if Stinky delivers mercy or justice tonight.

274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:44:36pm

re: #265 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I'm not interested in making you jump through hoops.

Fine with me. I actually dig your posts, which is why I gave that detailed answer.

275 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:45:28pm

re: #273 wlewisiii

re: #274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You'd look really good in flaming hoops.
I'm just saying.

276 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:45:48pm

Just to put this out there, and I swear I'll shut up after this...

Here in the Philippines where I grew up, the "conservative Christianness" of our religious institutions are laid bare more often than not. They have fought against the right to artificial birth control (lumping it in with abortion) and have left our country as the only country in the world without legalized divorce - something they are now praising as a positive trait.

This has left the country with a ticking population bomb exacerbated by millions in abusive relationships they can't escape. Combined with anger with what the religious right are doing in the United States, well...it makes me want to punch something.

And that's all I got to say about that. :B

277 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:46:48pm

re: #276 laZardo

Just to put this out there, and I swear I'll shut up after this...

Here in the Philippines where I grew up, the "conservative Christianness" of our religious institutions are laid bare more often than not. They have fought against the right to artificial birth control (lumping it in with abortion) and have left our country as the only country in the world without legalized divorce - something they are now praising as a positive trait.

This has left the country with a ticking population bomb exacerbated by millions in abusive relationships they can't escape. Combined with anger with what the religious right are doing in the United States, well...it makes me want to punch something.

And that's all I got to say about that. :B

You are welcome to move here with the heathens!

278 Four More Tears  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:47:47pm

re: #277 ggt

You are welcome to move here with the heathens!

Huh? I thought we din't want no more ferriners?

279 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:49:14pm

re: #278 JasonA

Huh? I thought we din't want no more ferriners?

I have 'murcan citizenship for being born in San Francisco, unless they somehow revoked that ex post facto for my dad being ferrin'.

280 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:49:41pm

re: #278 JasonA

Huh? I thought we din't want no more ferriners?

Farriers, we don't want or need anymore farriers.

:)

281 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:50:36pm

re: #279 laZardo

I have 'murcan citizenship for being born in San Francisco, unless they somehow revoked that ex post facto for my dad being ferrin'.

Good, no controversy. Move on over.

282 Varek Raith  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:51:04pm

re: #273 wlewisiii

Well, folks, time to go. I've got a boy to get to school tomorrow along with many other things. Let me know if Stinky delivers mercy or justice tonight.

Who's being naughty?

283 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:51:42pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

Who's being naughty?

oh gawd, don't ask.

WE've have had enough of that!

284 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:51:55pm

re: #282 Varek Raith

Who's being naughty?

You are.
Begging for a spanking!

285 Varek Raith  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:52:19pm

re: #281 ggt

Good, no controversy. Move on over.

Yes.
Start swimming laZardo!

286 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:52:52pm

re: #285 Varek Raith

Yes.
Start swimming laZardo!

We could call him Zardo the Murican.

287 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:53:06pm

re: #276 laZardo

Just to put this out there, and I swear I'll shut up after this...

Here in the Philippines where I grew up, the "conservative Christianness" of our religious institutions are laid bare more often than not. They have fought against the right to artificial birth control (lumping it in with abortion) and have left our country as the only country in the world without legalized divorce - something they are now praising as a positive trait.

This has left the country with a ticking population bomb exacerbated by millions in abusive relationships they can't escape. Combined with anger with what the religious right are doing in the United States, well...it makes me want to punch something.

And that's all I got to say about that. :B

Well, I don't blame you for wanting to punch something. SFZ asked me what defines a "conservative Christian" and here in the US they are mainly Protestant whackjobs. Their history against Catholics is appalling.

The ones today act like they love Catholics and Mormons but they look down on their beliefs and only are after that antigay/antiabortion vote.

The forced-chilbirth people are every bit as heinous as the Chinese government. Neither seems to be thinking about the next generations, only about appeasing conservative tastes right now.

288 Varek Raith  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:54:01pm

re: #284 Floral Giraffe

You are.
Begging for a spanking!

Didn't need the Force to know you'd say that.
:P

289 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:54:16pm

re: #280 ggt

Farriers, we don't want or need anymore farriers.

:)

Or furriers. Don't tell PETA about all them furriers.

290 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:55:00pm

re: #288 Varek Raith

Didn't need the Force to know you'd say that.
:P

Didn't know the force to know you'd like it!
:P

291 Varek Raith  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:55:50pm

re: #290 Floral Giraffe

Didn't know the force to know you'd like it!
:P

Giggity!

292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:55:51pm

re: #275 Floral Giraffe

re: #274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You'd look really good in flaming hoops.
I'm just saying.

Swell. I need to go shopping for a new outfit for the weekend. I will keep the fashion tip in mind.

293 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:55:55pm

re: #286 ggt

We could call him Zardo the Murican.

Goddammit, DF is already asleep. I was gonna ask him to make up a whole D&D profile for that.

294 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:56:03pm

re: #289 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or furriers. Don't tell PETA about all them furriers.

Don't tell nobody, but the LGFers support Furries, too.

295 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:56:33pm

For the record, I think there is a difference between "Conservatism" and "Theocracy"

The problem is that the Conservatives have not figured-out yet that they have been alined with the Theocrats.

It is my experience that Conservatives want the Separation of Church and State. Theocrats, be definition, do not.

296 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:56:56pm

re: #274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Fine with me. I actually dig your posts, which is why I gave that detailed answer.

Can someone be a Christian conservative and not abuse, be violent, make threats of estrangement, and force conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms?

297 Varek Raith  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:57:23pm

re: #293 laZardo

Goddammit, DF is already asleep. I was gonna ask him to make up a whole D&D profile for that.

HAH!

298 Olsonist  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:57:50pm

re: #16 Charles

I don't think she's actually good at promoting herself either. She just lucked into being a right wing heroine, and she's riding the tiger with no idea where it's going.

I completely disagree. I think Palin is very good and only good at self promotion and I think she has worked hard to become the right wing heroine she is. Luck had little to do with it other than winning the genetics lottery. She apprenticed in the religious circuit and she worked her way on up.

As for riding the tiger, her purpose is not winning and it certainly wasn't governing; neither is Newt's nor Bachmann's purpose winning. Their purpose is celebrity and far from being out of control, Palin is very much in control of her image.

She kind of reminds me of Madonna, a willful singer who couldn't sing worth a damn but who managed to stay in the public eye indefinitely. An industry was built around her.

299 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:57:51pm

re: #294 Floral Giraffe

Don't tell nobody, but the LGFers support Furries, too.

I have nothing against mink ranchers, myself.

300 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:58:16pm

re: #292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Swell. I need to go shopping for a new outfit for the weekend. I will keep the fashion tip in mind.

Seriously high platforms would look good on you.If you want fashion advice.
It's free. Worth what you paid for it.
Skank.

301 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:59:25pm

re: #298 Olsonist

I completely disagree. I think Palin is very good and only good at self promotion and I think she has worked hard to become the right wing heroine she is. Luck had little to do with it other than winning the genetics lottery. She apprenticed in the religious circuit and she worked her way on up.

As for riding the tiger, her purpose is not winning and it certainly wasn't governing; neither is Newt's nor Bachmann's purpose winning. Their purpose is celebrity and far from being out of control, Palin is very much in control of her image.

She kind of reminds me of Madonna, a willful singer who couldn't sing worth a damn but who managed to stay in the public eye indefinitely. An industry was built around her.

Actually, Madonna can sing and dance too! Bad analogy.

I think Palin and her ilk are more than just wannabe celebs. They are cheerleaders for those that do the behind the scenes work. The money people.

302 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 10:59:35pm

re: #296 ozbloke

Can someone be a Christian conservative and not abuse, be violent, make threats of estrangement, and force conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms?

Conservative Christians are capable as anyone else of being normal, rational people, yes.

Like many of them are so quick to preach at everyone else, it's a matter of lifestyle choice.

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:00:09pm

re: #294 Floral Giraffe

Don't tell nobody, but the LGFers support Furries, too.

Diary of Dorkulus has duly noted that.

304 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:00:35pm

re: #300 Floral Giraffe

Seriously high platforms would look good on you.If you want fashion advice.
It's free. Worth what you paid for it.
Skank.

Tell us more about your fantasies.

305 Varek Raith  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:01:06pm

re: #303 SanFranciscoZionist

Diary of Dorkulus has duly noted that.

They're just jealous.
Image: furryForKrystal.jpg

306 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:01:07pm

re: #294 Floral Giraffe

Don't tell nobody, but the LGFers support Furries, too.

We do?

307 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:02:35pm

re: #294 Floral Giraffe

Don't tell nobody, but the LGFers support Furries, too.

Actually, the Furries freak me out a little. I support their right to their weirdness, just really don't want to attend a convention or anything.

308 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:03:49pm

re: #302 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Conservative Christians are capable as anyone else of being normal, rational people, yes.

Like many of them are so quick to preach at everyone else, it's a matter of lifestyle choice.

I am Christian and in many ways conservative, I'm in Australia so I can't speak of the US with authority. However I have many friends who I would consider as conservative Christian's they don't behave the way you paint us.

If I wanted a motto about them, it would be 'its not about what you have but what you have given'.

I hear what you say about conservative Christians, but I suggest its a minority.

309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:04:22pm

re: #295 ggt

For the record, I think there is a difference between "Conservatism" and "Theocracy"

The problem is that the Conservatives have not figured-out yet that they have been alined with the Theocrats.

It is my experience that Conservatives want the Separation of Church and State. Theocrats, be definition, do not.

Yeah, it's a matter of getting the theocratic conservatives to just say outright that theocracy is what they are after. A lot of them are close, but they know it's unconstitutional.

Theocrats really resent the Constitution for that reason (and others.) They believe they are privy to more rights than everyone else and the Constitution does not allow it.

310 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:07:18pm

re: #309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, it's a matter of getting the theocratic conservatives to just say outright that theocracy is what they are after. A lot of them are close, but they know it's unconstitutional.

Theocrats really resent the Constitution for that reason (and others.) They believe they are privy to more rights than everyone else and the Constitution does not allow it.

You'd be better off not using labels in your arguments. Everyone has a different idea of what they mean and no understanding is gained.

LGF lost a lot of members awhile back over the use of a label. Got ugly.

311 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:08:46pm

re: #308 ozbloke

I am Christian and in many ways conservative, I'm in Australia so I can't speak of the US with authority. However I have many friends who I would consider as conservative Christian's they don't behave the way you paint us.

If I wanted a motto about them, it would be 'its not about what you have but what you have given'.

Here, that would be cast as weak liberal bedwetting, by some of the people I'm talking about.


I hear what you say about conservative Christians, but I suggest its a minority.

It could be a minority where you are, but consider that this is a thread that was, at one point, about Sarah Palin.

Our religious history is also different than .au's.

Minorities of every stripe also have equal rights here, as they/we should. The ones who have put conservative Christian so-called "values" into their party platform are gunning for more than equal rights, they are demanding special rights for themselves, only.

Conservatives have a long history of this, here.

312 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:08:54pm

Well, I found a new Roman Mystery series author.

Finally figured out why I couldn't sync it to my iPod.

So, I"m off.

Have a great evening all.

313 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:09:23pm

re: #308 ozbloke

Aren't conservatives called Liberals on your side of the Equator?

/ q;

314 Four More Tears  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:15:37pm

re: #309 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, it's a matter of getting the theocratic conservatives to just say outright that theocracy is what they are after. A lot of them are close, but they know it's unconstitutional.

Theocrats really resent the Constitution for that reason (and others.) They believe they are privy to more rights than everyone else and the Constitution does not allow it.

I see them more lying to themselves to make the Constitution read the way they want it to.l

315 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:15:38pm

re: #298 Olsonist

I completely disagree. I think Palin is very good and only good at self promotion and I think she has worked hard to become the right wing heroine she is....

She kind of reminds me of Madonna, a willful singer who couldn't sing worth a damn but who managed to stay in the public eye indefinitely. An industry was built around her.

Yeah, I would agree. "Marketing genius". But unlike Madonna, Palin seems better at excelling where there is little competition. That, and if anyone spends time lurking at places like C4P and TeamSarah, people really think she is speaking for them and talking TO them.

Her image-making machine is starting to remind me of Trotsky's and Stalin's, to be honest.

316 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:16:27pm

re: #313 laZardo

Aren't conservatives called Liberals on your side of the Equator?

/ q;

Labor = Left
Liberal = Right City
National = Right Rural

Liberal/National Coalition = Right

Politically conservative would be right of center for the most part.

317 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:18:11pm

On a different topic... I lament more than ever the dumbing down of "science" TV specials. Even the BBC's latest masterpiece - the one on using IR satellites to map underground remnants of Egyptian structures - which has so much been in the news the past couple of days - even this 90 minute special suffers from this phenomenon.

I blame it on the History Channel and the Discovery Channel phenomenon in the US, which has spread throughout the television industry. That is, by simply labeling a TV show as something (history, science, etc.) the company can get by without actually putting in content.

That, and reality shows.

318 laZardo  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:18:42pm

re: #307 ggt

Actually, the Furries freak me out a little. I support their right to their weirdness, just really don't want to attend a convention or anything.

Speaking of solutions to the world food crisis....

319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:20:27pm

re: #313 laZardo

Aren't conservatives called Liberals on your side of the Equator?

/ q;

They are. FWIU, it's an economic distinction. In the 70s-80s, there was a move to merge the free marketers (your liberals) with antiabortion/antigay/anti-everything social conservatives to get the current GOP.

That experiment is falling apart imo, especially given the guys behind it, Paul Weyrich and Richard Viguerie left the GOP. The former is dead, but the latter is now tea party.

320 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:21:41pm

re: #311 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Here, that would be cast as weak liberal bedwetting, by some of the people I'm talking about.

I get you think that, but I question whether that is the majority of conservative Christians in the states.

I'm responding to this view:
If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

Because that is all conservative Christian shove "love" is. There is nothing more to it than that. Conservative Christians are addicted to it.



It could be a minority where you are, but consider that this is a thread that was, at one point, about Sarah Palin.

Our religious history is also different than .au's.

Minorities of every stripe also have equal rights here, as they/we should. The ones who have put conservative Christian so-called "values" into their party platform are gunning for more than equal rights, they are demanding special rights for themselves, only.

Conservatives have a long history of this, here.

But are the ones who put it in the party platform the majority of conservative Christians.
If so, where do your numbers come from?

321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:22:38pm

re: #319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They are. FWIU, it's an economic distinction. In the 70s-80s, there was a move to merge the free marketers (your liberals)

Oops- should have read "ozbloke's liberals".

322 freetoken  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:27:21pm

The show is quite clearly designed around appealing to the younger iEverything audience (complete with use of iPad). It looks slick, has a young and sexy cast and lots of gizmos and special effects. This is not the Attenborough travelogue type or even the more recent Brian Cox type of science special.

The luscious Liz Bonnin is part of the show. Very very kissable lips.... but what does that have to do with Egyptology?

323 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:28:26pm

I'm no fan of Darth Vader, sorry I meant Dick Cheney, and I wouldn't want to be his friend as I don't want to get shot in the face, and then apologize.

But I think he is accepting of his gay daughter, and I don't think she has been ostracized.

324 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:30:58pm

re: #323 ozbloke

I'm no fan of Darth Vader, sorry I meant Dick Cheney, and I wouldn't want to be his friend as I don't want to get shot in the face, and then apologize.

But I think he is accepting of his gay daughter, and I don't think she has been ostracized.

Nobody ostracizes a Cheney. If you do, her father will shoot you in the face and then make you apologize.

//But I also don't think the Cheneys are particularly religious sorts.

325 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:34:56pm

re: #324 SanFranciscoZionist


//But I also don't think the Cheneys are particularly religious sorts.

It wasn't even a good point that I made, I did think he was Christian though.

326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:35:34pm

re: #320 ozbloke

I get you think that, but I question whether that is the majority of conservative Christians in the states.

Likely. DEFINITELY, if you want to talk about conservative Christians who vote. The ones who vote do so to affect the laws.

But are the ones who put it in the party platform the majority of conservative Christians.

It's not liberal Christians putting antigay/antiabortion/special-rights-for-conservatives into the Republican party platform. The vast majority of them vote Democratic.


If so, where do your numbers come from?

I haven't mentioned any numbers. But Pew Forum is one of the most credible, regardless of one's preferred political affiliation. These are just a few from the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey [Link: religions.pewforum.org...]

See also their "Topics" site map - [Link: www.pewforum.org...]

I have other resources if you are interested.

327 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:38:10pm

re: #326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Likely. DEFINITELY, if you want to talk about conservative Christians who vote. The ones who vote do so to affect the laws.

It's not liberal Christians putting antigay/antiabortion/special-rights-for-conservati ves into the Republican party platform. The vast majority of them vote Democratic.

I haven't mentioned any numbers. But Pew Forum is one of the most credible, regardless of one's preferred political affiliation. These are just a few from the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey [Link: religions.pewforum.org...]

See also their "Topics" site map - [Link: www.pewforum.org...]

I have other resources if you are interested.


I am grateful for your time and effort, thank you.

I will look at those links to see if they support what you said:
If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

328 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:40:35pm

re: #317 freetoken

That, and reality shows.

I watched a handful of episodes of the first in that genre when it originally aired. MTV's "The Real World". The very first season in '92.

It took nearly no time at all for me to see it as the contrived set up of absolute bullshit that it was.

I walked away from "Reality Television" (the worst irony of all ironies) right then and there, nearly twenty years ago.

329 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:44:15pm

re: #322 freetoken

The luscious...

There's that word again.
/please forgive me as I catch up

330 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:44:38pm

re: #325 ozbloke

It wasn't even a good point that I made, I did think he was Christian though.

Cheney is United Methodist, which is a mainline Protestant denomination here. It's one of the largest - about 8mil. The GW Bushes are also Methodist. Like the Lutherans and Presbyterians (at least the PC[USA], which just legalized gay ordination), the United Methodists are going through some changes around acceptance of homosexuality. The Cheneys are clearly on the liberal end of that denomination, on that issue. I think they made a lot of people think twice about their own bigoted behavior against their own kids.

FWIW, the UMC were active against the Bush Adminstration wars. See: [Link: www.whosoever.org...]

331 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, May 31, 2011 11:54:03pm

re: #327 ozbloke

I am grateful for your time and effort, thank you.

Pew Forum is pretty comprehensive on American Religion, but there are a lot more resources.

332 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:07:49am

If I be made Czar of the English Language, one of my first acts would be to ban the word "technology". Once meaningful, now it is just a synonym for "magic".

333 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:10:33am

re: #332 freetoken

Wait, what the fuck did I miss?

334 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:22:35am

re: #333 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm still whining about that BBC special.

335 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:28:44am

re: #334 freetoken

Wait, it this a "Search The Thread Challenge"? Sort of like the "Pick Your Own Path" adventure books from the early '80s?

I'll pass, and post.

336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:35:33am

For ozbloke if you're still interested, more...

Pew Forum comparisons from last year, 35K sample - [Link: bit.ly...]

The Tea Party, Religion and Social Issues - [Link: bit.ly...]

Kathleen Parker (anti-Palinconservative) "Giving Up on God" - [Link: wapo.st...]

112th Congress, Religion and Party Affiliation Go Hand in Hand - [Link: bit.ly...]

Gallup Conservatives Dominate Republican Party, Skew Older (has basic religious affiliation) - [Link: bit.ly...]

There are more, too.

337 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:36:36am

re: #52 MikeySDCA

There is a familiar scenario these days.
A White Trash family gets a moment of media attention, usually through a most regrettable tragedy. The family of Elizabeth Smart has been particularly conspicuous.
A member of the family discovers that s/he has never seen a microphone or camera that s/he doesn't like. A publicity blitz follows, in which the family and the media compete in making asses of themselves.
Sarah Palin is a weird analog to this. She was not much stuff as Governor of Alaska, then was chosen to the bewilderment of everyone as McCain's VP candidate. Suddenly, she was on every broadcast except the Food Channel, and she loved it.
She still does.


So, Elizabeth Smart's family is "white trash"? They're white, true enough. Is that, of itself, sufficient evidence? Here's the substance of what you're claiming about the family: (from Wikipedia)

White trash is an American English pejorative term referring to poor white people in the United States, suggesting lower social class and degraded living standards. The term suggests outcasts from respectable society living on the fringes of the social order who are seen as dangerous because they may be criminal, unpredictable, and without respect for authority whether it be political, legal, or moral.

Now here's some facts about the Smart family and what they did about the kidnapping.

Ed and Lois Smart resided in the affluent neighborhood of Federal Heights in Salt Lake City, Utah with their six children.[

The Smarts sought to help unemployed people in the community by paying them for odd jobs or handy work around the property.[24] Mitchell, who called himself "Emmanuel", had been the one who informed many homeless people that the Smarts would hire them, and also worked for them himself one day. He worked at the Smarts' home for five hours, helping on the roof and raking leaves.[25][26][27][28] He was clean, soft-spoken, well-groomed, caucasian, 5'8″ tall, with dark hair, and was "about 45 years old". It seemed clear that "Emmanuel" was not his real name, but had something to do with his self-proclaimed calling as a prophet of God and minister to the homeless. Lois and some of the children had met him downtown as he was asking for spare change.[citation needed]

Mary Katherine now identified "Emmanuel"/Mitchell as the man who had abducted her sister. When this was reported to the police, they had doubts as to its reliability. Mary Katherine had barely heard the suspect's quiet voice and for only a few minutes, and had just come out of a sleep. When it was reported several months later that she thought it was the voice of a man she had only met briefly and more than a year before, the police did not consider it a worthy lead.

Tensions developed as the parents accused the police of not thoroughly following up on this lead. The family used the services of sketch artist Dalene Nielson [29] to draw "Emmanuel's" face from memory. In February, this drawing was released to the media, with the assistance of John Walsh, who revealed it in an appearance on Larry King Live and on his own series, America's Most Wanted. The drawing was recognized by Emmanuel's family, who reported his actual name, Brian David Mitchell, to the police, and provided them with contemporary photographs of Mitchell.


Is there anything at all in this that meets the standard definition of "white trash"? Or is your definition "anybody who uses publicity as a tool to rescue their daughter, after all other avenues have failed"?

338 Guanxi88  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:40:28am

Ni man hao, drughi!

So, we got Czar of the English Language, pick your own story books, and analysis of the social scum known as "white trash" on tap.?

Me, I'm having bourbon.

339 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:41:24am

re: #336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

For ozbloke if you're still interested, more...

Pew Forum comparisons from last year, 35K sample - [Link: bit.ly...]

The Tea Party, Religion and Social Issues - [Link: bit.ly...]

Kathleen Parker (anti-Palinconservative) "Giving Up on God" - [Link: wapo.st...]

112th Congress, Religion and Party Affiliation Go Hand in Hand - [Link: bit.ly...]

Gallup Conservatives Dominate Republican Party, Skew Older (has basic religious affiliation) - [Link: bit.ly...]

There are more, too.

Thanks, I may get around to them, I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

But let me say so far I haven't come across anything that would support your contention:
If by "more love" I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms.

I haven't finished looking though.

340 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:44:59am

re: #335 Slumbering Behemoth

Wait, it this a "Search The Thread Challenge"?

341 Guanxi88  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:45:54am

Look, people love whom they love - I, of all people, know that.

But, people are who they think those around them think them to be - hence, conformity.

Your best bet is to try to balance these out, with a thumb lightly resting int he pan of the individual. That is, try to take people - not as they are, but as they probably think of themselves, or want you to think they think of themselves - it's the best way.

342 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 12:58:12am

re: #336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

For ozbloke if you're still interested, more...

Pew Forum comparisons from last year, 35K sample - [Link: bit.ly...]

The Tea Party, Religion and Social Issues - [Link: bit.ly...]

Kathleen Parker (anti-Palinconservative) "Giving Up on God" - [Link: wapo.st...]

112th Congress, Religion and Party Affiliation Go Hand in Hand - [Link: bit.ly...]

Gallup Conservatives Dominate Republican Party, Skew Older (has basic religious affiliation) - [Link: bit.ly...]

There are more, too.

This is where we are at in Australia at the moment, for todays news.

Complaint about gay safe sex ads 'homophobic'.
There has been an angry reaction to the removal of a safe sex advertisements in Brisbane featuring two gay men hugging.
That was about 10 hours ago.

Gay safe sex ads reinstated after uproar
Adshel has reinstated a safe sex campaign for gay couples after they say the Australian Christian Lobby "orchestrated" complaints against the ads.
There has been an angry reaction to the removal of a safe sex advertisements in Brisbane featuring two gay men hugging.

This was 30 minutes or so ago.

Yes there are a vocal group of extreme right Christian types, but they are not a majority.
I think the same would be true in the US.

Sometimes it may seem that way, the noisiest wheels get oiled first.
Its a matter of whether the governments in power pander to it, its also about how the media portrays it.

I will not accept your view of 'Christian conservatives' as you describe it:
"If by 'more love' I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms."

343 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:10:32am

re: #342 ozbloke

This is where we are at in Australia at the moment, for todays news.

Complaint about gay safe sex ads 'homophobic'.
There has been an angry reaction to the removal of a safe sex advertisements in Brisbane featuring two gay men hugging.
That was about 10 hours ago.

Gay safe sex ads reinstated after uproar
Adshel has reinstated a safe sex campaign for gay couples after they say the Australian Christian Lobby "orchestrated" complaints against the ads.
There has been an angry reaction to the removal of a safe sex advertisements in Brisbane featuring two gay men hugging.

This was 30 minutes or so ago.

Yes there are a vocal group of extreme right Christian types, but they are not a majority.
I think the same would be true in the US.

Sometimes it may seem that way, the noisiest wheels get oiled first.
Its a matter of whether the governments in power pander to it, its also about how the media portrays it.

I will not accept your view of 'Christian conservatives' as you describe it:
"If by 'more love' I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms."

My personal view is one of about 349,999,999+ in the US, and it doesn't matter to me whether you accept it or not. I don't accept your characterization of American conservative Christians as being the same as Austrialian ones - I seriously doubt you care about that.

If you want to talk about conservative Christianity in the US, I'm your gal.

Antigay politics is only one element of conservative Christianity here.

Comparing the US to Australia is apples/lawnmowers, especially as to the development of Evangelicalism, televangelism, conservative Christianity and the Republican party which expresses some of their key planks.

344 sagehen  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:12:22am


Yes there are a vocal group of extreme right Christian types, but they are not a majority.
I think the same would be true in the US.

And you would be wrong.

Extreme right Christian types here are a solid majority of the Republican primary voters in more than a dozen states; there are a dozen or so in the Senate, dozens in the House, and several governors.

And they hold absolute veto power over Republican nominees.

345 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:13:31am

re: #343 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My personal view is one of about 349,999,999+ in the US,...

311,463,799, but there are quite a few schizophrenics...

346 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:15:25am

re: #344 sagehen


Yes there are a vocal group of extreme right Christian types, but they are not a majority.
I think the same would be true in the US.

And you would be wrong.

Extreme right Christian types here are a solid majority of the Republican primary voters in more than a dozen states; there are a dozen or so in the Senate, dozens in the House, and several governors.

And they hold absolute veto power over Republican nominees.

My apologies sagehen,
We were talking about the characterization of 'conservative Christians as not 'extreme right wing Christians':
"If by 'more love' I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms."
That was somewhere about comment #183

347 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:16:17am

re: #342 ozbloke

This is where we are at in Australia at the moment, for todays news.

Complaint about gay safe sex ads 'homophobic'.
There has been an angry reaction to the removal of a safe sex advertisements in Brisbane featuring two gay men hugging.
That was about 10 hours ago.

Gay safe sex ads reinstated after uproar
Adshel has reinstated a safe sex campaign for gay couples after they say the Australian Christian Lobby "orchestrated" complaints against the ads.
There has been an angry reaction to the removal of a safe sex advertisements in Brisbane featuring two gay men hugging.

This was 30 minutes or so ago.

One major difference between your country and mine is you have an atheist head of state.

Ask anyone in these comments the likelihood of an atheist president in this country any time soon. Sarah Palin 2012 has a better chance.

348 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:19:05am

re: #343 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If you want to talk about conservative Christianity in the US, I'm your gal.

Maybe what you call a Christian conservative is what I would refer to as an 'extreme right wing Christian', typically ones who support a theocracy. But as I said, I have not seen any evidence here or in the states, that the majority of conservative Christians are theocratic.

349 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:19:56am

re: #348 ozbloke

Maybe what you call a Christian conservative is what I would refer to as an 'extreme right wing Christian', typically ones who support a theocracy. But as I said, I have not seen any evidence here or in the states, that the majority of conservative Christians are theocratic.

It doesn't take a majority, just a very active, aggressive minority. History is full of examples of that...

350 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:22:38am

re: #347 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

One major difference between your country and mine is you have an atheist head of state.

Ask anyone in these comments the likelihood of an atheist president in this country any time soon. Sarah Palin 2012 has a better chance.

Our Prime minister has lead this country for two years if that, the previous left wing leader was Christian, and the right wing one before that was Christian, thats the best part of the last 20 years. So I am not sure Julia has had much influnce over Christianity in politics. If fact she typically steers away from giving her personal opinions on it.

351 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:22:46am

re: #346 ozbloke

My apologies sagehen,
We were talking about the characterization of 'conservative Christians as not 'extreme right wing Christians':
"If by 'more love' I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms."
That was somewhere about comment #183

There's not much difference, though they will come to blows (and used to kill each other) about differences between them.

Yes, I know that statement about narrow, forced conformity and exclusionary social norms got under your skin but I'm not taking it back. You may have noticed I have not made the argument that such conservative Christians are a "majority", nor am I even arguing against that goalpost move. That's you.

But again, if you want the mind-numbing/boring-ass/rolodex delineation of differences between conservative Christian denominations and parachurch orgranizations, and their distinctions from liberal or other kinds of Christians, I'm your gal.

352 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:24:55am

re: #344 sagehen


Yes there are a vocal group of extreme right Christian types, but they are not a majority.
I think the same would be true in the US.

And you would be wrong.

Extreme right Christian types here are a solid majority of the Republican primary voters in more than a dozen states; there are a dozen or so in the Senate, dozens in the House, and several governors.

And they hold absolute veto power over Republican nominees.

Bugger, I mangled that last reply. I'll try again.

My apologies sagehen,
We were talking about the characterization of 'conservative Christians not 'extreme right wing Christians':

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin stated:
"If by 'more love' I do hope you don't mean more abuse, violence, threats of estrangement, and forced conformity to narrow, exclusionary social norms."
That was somewhere about comment #183

353 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:27:14am

re: #349 ralphieboy

It doesn't take a majority, just a very active, aggressive minority. History is full of examples of that...

I don't disagree with that.
However OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin comment in #183 was a harsh condemnation of 'conservative Christians' as a whole, I don't believe her analysis if fair.

354 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:30:54am

re: #351 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin


Yes, I know that statement about narrow, forced conformity and exclusionary social norms got under your skin but I'm not taking it back. You may have noticed I have not made the argument that such conservative Christians are a "majority", nor am I even arguing against that goalpost move.

I don't mind you making the statement as long as you don't mind me voicing my opinion on it.

However in #183, you made no attempt to put any distinctions about who you were talking about.

It was clearly conservative Christians's a group.
Its both a broad brush, and a generalization.

355 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:35:19am

re: #353 ozbloke

I don't disagree with that.
However OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin comment in #183 was a harsh condemnation of 'conservative Christians' as a whole, I don't believe her analysis if fair.

It also takes a small, vocal and active minority to make an entire group look bad. Remember the recent thread about Pat Robertson and Islam.

356 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:38:53am

re: #348 ozbloke

Maybe what you call a Christian conservative is what I would refer to as an 'extreme right wing Christian', typically ones who support a theocracy. But as I said, I have not seen any evidence here or in the states, that the majority of conservative Christians are theocratic.

Well again, "majority" or not is not the issue. Here, we have majority rule with minority rights. They are a major constituency, with solid representation in the Republican party, especially with a couple of their platform positions. There's no point in denying their influence.

There are two main strains of "theocratic" Christians here, and one set are active Republican voters, one is more or less apathetic. The first would be the Dominionists, such as the "Seven Mountains"/Youth With A Mission/Bill Bright crowd. They tend to be Evangelicals.

Ex: [Link: www.reclaim7mountains.com...]

Ex: C Street House

Ex: Pat Robertson/CBN/Regent University - who thinks only Christians should be in government.

357 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:43:28am

re: #353 ozbloke

I don't disagree with that.
However OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin comment in #183 was a harsh condemnation of 'conservative Christians' as a whole, I don't believe her analysis if fair.

Conservative Christians as a whole impose a harsh condemnation -- literally -- of everyone not like them. Conservative Christians as a whole gave the world the entire concept of "harsh condemnation".

The types in question have no intention of being fair with anyone outside their beliefs. That's why they fantasize about such people burning forever in punishment.

What I wrote wasn't even a condemnation, it was a hope that the person's family is not like that.

358 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:46:52am

re: #357 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Conservative Christians as a whole gave the world the entire concept of "harsh condemnation".

Christianity got "Hell" from the Greek (Hades), who imported the idea when they conquered the land, which seeped into sects of Judaism, which then eventually led to Christianity.

Punishment in the after life is an ancient concept, though not all societies would have it of course.

359 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:46:56am

re: #354 ozbloke

I don't mind you making the statement as long as you don't mind me voicing my opinion on it.

However in #183, you made no attempt to put any distinctions about who you were talking about.

It was clearly conservative Christians's a group.
Its both a broad brush, and a generalization.

Do you see me trying to stop you from voicing your opinion? I do think you're aware by now that I'm not interested in changing that opinion, which is really the restult of hurt feelings from a frank statement.

Since #183, I've been asked, very specifically, what defines a "conservative Christian" and have given quite detailed answers. I can give plenty more, if someone is interested.

I cannot help it if some people don't like the answers. That happens on the internet.

360 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:49:18am

re: #355 ralphieboy

It also takes a small, vocal and active minority to make an entire group look bad. Remember the recent thread about Pat Robertson and Islam.

The ones who scream, "where are the moderates in Islam", are exactly the ones to give Robertson a pass, or just stay silent when he shoots off at the mouth.

361 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:51:04am

I read a very good alalysis of the four types of religious belief:

1) those who simply identify with a religion as part of their tradition and culture, but do not follow it strictly

2) those who follow a religion closely but not strictly and do not seek to impose it on others

3) those who strictly follow a religion and advocate imposing it on others

4) those who actively seek to impose their religion on others using all means available

Those who belong to the first two groups are of little concern to any healthy democracy, the latter two are of concern when they start advocating or turning to violent or illegal methods to impose their agenda.

362 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:56:09am

re: #358 freetoken

Christianity got "Hell" from the Greek (Hades), who imported the idea when they conquered the land, which seeped into sects of Judaism, which then eventually led to Christianity.

Punishment in the after life is an ancient concept, though not all societies would have it of course.

No, it's not unique to Christianity by any means (I believe "fire and brimstone" predates the Greeks not the other way around). Many Christians do not accept it themselves. The Jehovah's Witnesses are probably the most famous.

But "hellfire and brimstone" is associated mainly with Evangelical Protestantism. That's why I linked the term and not "Hades", and definitely is not "Valley of Hinnom" :p .

363 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 1:56:40am

For anyone who was interested, here is the comment where I started listening.

#173
You don't know conservative christians very well, then.

What do you think traditional family values are based on, if not estrangement, violence, and punishment for non-conformity?

This is what conservative Christians call "love". They are perverts.

Its a broadbrush, I don't think its fair.

364 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:01:19am

The Squirrel Nut Zippers on the topic of Hell

365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:08:48am

re: #361 ralphieboy

I read a very good alalysis of the four types of religious belief:

1) those who simply identify with a religion as part of their tradition and culture, but do not follow it strictly

2) those who follow a religion closely but not strictly and do not seek to impose it on others

3) those who strictly follow a religion and advocate imposing it on others

4) those who actively seek to impose their religion on others using all means available

Those who belong to the first two groups are of little concern to any healthy democracy, the latter two are of concern when they start advocating or turning to violent or illegal methods to impose their agenda.

Good summary. I was trying to get to the other theocrats in America, the Christian Reconstructionists/Christian Libertarians.

_____

In accordance with Levitical law, capital crimes in a Christian Reconstructionist society would include homosexuality, adultery, abortion, blasphemy, disobedience to one’s parents, idolatry and violation of the Sabbath. Rushdoony told Bill Moyers in 1988 that "The Bible identifies 15 crimes against the family worthy of the death penalty. Abortion is treason against the family and deserves the death penalty. Adultery is treason to the family; adulterers should be put to death. Homosexuality is treason to the family, and it too, is worthy of death." [2] This point was confirmed by Christian Reconstructionist Gary DeMar on an Atlanta Radio show during which the following exchange took place:

Gonzales: If, indeed the Reconstructionist movement ever made it in America, would you advocate these biblical principles being carried out: the execution of the adulterer, the abortionist, and the homosexual? DEMAR: I'm saying that they could be implemented, yes. [3]

____

They are less of a worry because they just don't have the numbers. But they do have influence. Gary De Mar is tied in with Dr. James Dobson, who sells his books, and also Jim DeMint.

There are also "conservative Christian" groups like some Church of God sects, which don't believe in getting involved in politics, because it's "the world". There used to be a lot more of them until Weyrich, Viguerie, Moral Majority, Christian Coalition, Eagle Forum, Concerned Women for America and CUFI formed.

366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:09:42am

re: #363 ozbloke

For anyone who was interested, here is the comment where I started listening.

Its a broadbrush, I don't think its fair.

When conservative Christians stop broadbrushing everyone else not like them into hell, we can talk about fairness.

367 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:12:21am

re: #366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

When conservative Christians stop broadbrushing everyone else not like them into hell, we can talk about fairness.

I'm sorry, I find it hard to have an enlightened conversation when you made such broad generalizations.

You may have more knowledge than anyone here on the subject, but that starting point doesn't help.

368 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:18:58am

re: #367 ozbloke

I'm sorry, I find it hard to have an enlightened conversation when you made such broad generalizations.

You may have more knowledge than anyone here on the subject, but that starting point doesn't help.

But it's not a contest of who has more anything. And to be frank, I feel no compulsion to be fair with people who believe they are entitled to more rights than others because they believe certain things, or live their lives in certain ways. If the statement doesn't apply to you, there is no need to be offended.

If we go back to the *actual* thread topic, it's about Palin and her stupid bus tour. There's a reason it's packed with pseudo-religious "God" references because that is her constituency. You may want to claim they don't have the numbers (and I've seen none forthcoming on your part.) But this kind of conservative Christian grandstanding is not new in the US.

369 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:28:23am
370 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:31:17am

re: #368 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You basically decided you got to define what 'conservative Christian' means.

That's the entire problem here.

Most of us know examples of conservative Christians that do not fit your broad-brush, so we're rejecting your over-broad definition.

My parents are conservative Christians. They're also Catholic, which according to you isn't possible.

They have many and manifold failings but those are related to them as themselves, and not their religion. They do not require that I conform to their expectations, and are in fact very good at getting along with my brothers and I, even though we're all godless atheists.

There's enormous damage done in this country by conservative Christians on every level, from the political to the scientific to the educational. But it's not done by every conservative Christian.

There are families of conservative Christians were the rigor and strictures of discipline are tantamount to child abuse. But it's not all conservative Christians.

I have no idea why you're grasping this broad brush so firmly, and why you're insisting that your definition of conservative Christian is the only one allowed.

371 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:31:29am

re: #368 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

But it's not a contest of who has more anything. And to be frank, I feel no compulsion to be fair with people who believe they are entitled to more rights than others because they believe certain things, or live their lives in certain ways. If the statement doesn't apply to you, there is no need to be offended.

As I stated in my first post, I am Christian, and have many conservative views.


If we go back to the *actual* thread topic, it's about Palin and her stupid bus tour. There's a reason it's packed with pseudo-religious "God" references because that is her constituency. You may want to claim they don't have the numbers (and I've seen none forthcoming on your part.) But this kind of conservative Christian grandstanding is not new in the US.

I actually agree with that, but it bares no resemblance to what you sated in #173

How bout this, lets stop filling the thread with this back and forth.
I could have been much more interested in hearing your views until you started with that brush.

For what its worth, I think you could be a wealth of information it you left out your personal beliefs.

372 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:34:24am

re: #370 Obdicut

373 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:36:48am

re: #370 Obdicut

read my earlier post on the types of belief. Your parents sound like they belong to the second group: they adhere to a religion but would not impose it on others.

374 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:40:10am

re: #371 ozbloke

As I stated in my first post, I am Christian, and have many conservative views.

I actually agree with that, but it bares no resemblance to what you sated in #173

How bout this, lets stop filling the thread with this back and forth.
I could have been much more interested in hearing your views until you started with that brush.

For what its worth, I think you could be a wealth of information it you left out your personal beliefs.

Thanks for that. But that will be a problem, and is probably not going to ever happen, since I see people putting all manner of their personal views in LGF comments, and making broad brush statements as well.

If we all expected rote agreement with each thing we said, none of us would be on the internet.

What do you think of the story at hand (the bus tour)?

375 Usually refered to as anyways  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:46:15am

re: #374 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Thanks for that. But that will be a problem, and is probably not going to ever happen, since I see people putting all manner of their personal views in LGF comments, and making broad brush statements as well.

If we all expected rote agreement with each thing we said, none of us would be on the internet.

What do you think of the story at hand (the bus tour)?

I think she would be disastrous for America.

I take each commenter on their posts, some paint with a broadbrush, but often when they do they are called on it.
On that note, its dinner time here.

Be well.

376 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:46:17am

It's not about Sarah, it's about America. Sarah is just her humble servant.

That is why she quit serving Alaska as governor, after all, it is just *part* of America, so she could come down to the lower 48 and serve the rest of us (except for Hawaii, which I have heard she dislikes)

377 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:51:05am

re: #373 ralphieboy

read my earlier post on the types of belief. Your parents sound like they belong to the second group: they adhere to a religion but would not impose it on others.

In my exp, even the most fervent Catholics fit that, at least in the US -- and even then, it may be only a couple issues. Other countries might be different, but I just don't get this sense of anxiety given off by a lot of Evangelicals. Especially the latter of the Bachmann/Palin/David Barton brand. Catholics also have a history of anti-Catholic discrimination here by the usual suspects.

Then there is the case of unhinged Glenn Beck. :/

378 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:51:44am

re: #375 ozbloke

I think she would be disastrous for America.

I take each commenter on their posts, some paint with a broadbrush, but often when they do they are called on it.
On that note, its dinner time here.

Be well.

Ok, thx for the conv. Hope to ttyas.

379 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:00:18am

re: #376 ralphieboy

It's not about Sarah, it's about America. Sarah is just her humble servant.

That is why she quit serving Alaska as governor, after all, it is just *part* of America, so she could come down to the lower 48 and serve the rest of us (except for Hawaii, which I have heard she dislikes)

Yeah, all that "servant leadership" hogwash. So transparent. Oh well, whatever keeps the cash flowing.

380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:18:01am

re: #133 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ok computer.

fitter
happier
more productive
comfortable

381 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:22:50am

A great soprano, Anna Moffo, singing:

382 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:24:43am

Morning Honcos.

383 researchok  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:28:43am

Morning, all

384 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:40:03am

re: #381 freetoken

A great soprano, Anna Moffo, singing:

[Video]

What piece is that, freetoken?

385 freetoken  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:44:45am

re: #384 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

"Passo pel prat" is the name of the cut.

[Link: new.music.yahoo.com...]

386 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 3:58:43am
387 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:01:20am
388 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:06:15am

re: #386 Cannadian Club Akbar

Atlanta loses their hockey team. Sucks to be them.

Except for the (part) owner, not many people noticed/care

Yes, transplants (like me) would go when "their" team came to town (GO BRUINS!!) but the Thrashers never really had a "base" here

389 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:09:05am

re: #388 sattv4u2

I am actually pulling for the Bruins. I really need a shower after saying that.

390 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:10:47am

re: #389 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am actually pulling for the Bruins. I really need a shower after saying that.

and before!

391 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:12:50am

Today is the start of hurricane season.
We are all gonna die.
Both statements are true.

392 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:14:05am

re: #391 Cannadian Club Akbar

Today is the start of hurricane season.
We are all gonna die.
Both statements are true.

Will there be cake??

393 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:14:39am

re: #392 sattv4u2

Will there be cake??

Yes. Freeze dried.

394 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:17:13am

re: #393 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes. Freeze dried.

Where you're going, get used to those two words!

395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:18:27am

re: #386 Cannadian Club Akbar

Atlanta loses their hockey team. Sucks to be them.

If you can't grow ice outside there, you shouldn't be able to play hockey there.

I'm looking at you Phoenix, San Jose, etc...

396 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:18:42am

re: #394 sattv4u2

I'll be sending you an email after I get back from the "office". Don't have the time now.

397 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:19:49am

re: #396 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll be sending you an email after I get back from the "office". Don't have the time now.

oh,,,
joy,,

:)

398 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:22:27am

re: #395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you can't grow ice outside there, you shouldn't be able to play hockey there.

I'm looking at you Phoenix, San Jose, etc...

We (Atlanta) have our annual "ice storm" that shuts the city down for 7-10 days

It gets under 32 degrees, combo of snow/rain/sleet for an hour or so

Within an hour after the streets are dry but there are some remnants of snow/ice on trees and grass, therefore, the city is PARALYZED for a week and people hoard milk (even the ones that don't even DRINK milk)

399 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:22:55am

re: #395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If you can't grow ice outside there, you shouldn't be able to play hockey there.

I'm looking at you Phoenix, San Jose, etc...

Miami, LA, Anaheim...

400 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:25:11am

Alrighty. Gotta run. The office calls!!

401 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:28:32am

Son is off to his (last) day of school, so I have another hour before I have to get up, shower and take the long, quiet drive in to work

BBL

402 Lidane  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:41:33am

Morning, Lizards!

I get to rejoin the productive world again. Today's the first day of my summer internship. I'll be working in business development at a game development studio here in town. Should be fun. I hope. :)

403 Lidane  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:43:43am

re: #375 ozbloke

I think she would be disastrous for America.

That's an understatement. She'd be disastrous not just for America, but for our allies as well. She's truly a dim bulb and should never be trusted with any real power, much less access to nukes.

404 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:44:20am

re: #402 Lidane

Which studio?

405 Lidane  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:47:05am

re: #404 Obdicut

A small indie here in town that's just getting off the ground. They mostly do iPhone apps and games.

406 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:50:36am

Anybody here know Siebel and how it processes HTML form elements?

407 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 4:52:31am

re: #385 freetoken

"Passo pel prat" is the name of the cut.

[Link: new.music.yahoo.com...]

Nice. I see from the wiki link she also sang with Shirley Verrett, one of my favorite sopranoes. Shirley in Don Carlo:

408 Flounder  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:21:47am

Betchya can't guess what movie I watched last night, aye you hosers?

409 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:27:07am

re: #408 Shropshire_Slasher

Betchya can't guess what movie I watched last night, aye you hosers?

Strange Brew?//

410 Flounder  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:28:49am

re: #409 rwdflynavy

DING DING DING
Rick Moranis is pretty funny, that and I learned the hockey player was in Star Wars as Gold Leader.

411 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:31:59am

re: #410 Shropshire_Slasher

DING DING DING
Rick Moranis is pretty funny, that and I learned the hockey player was in Star Wars as Gold Leader.

I had the Great White North album as a kid and listened to it over and over. Still makes me chuckle.

412 Flounder  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 5:34:35am

re: #411 rwdflynavy

Take off aye!
My son is nine, I think he musta watched Strange Brew a half dozen times.

413 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:06:16am

re: #376 ralphieboy

It's not about Sarah, it's about America. Sarah is just her humble servant.

That is why she quit serving Alaska as governor, after all, it is just *part* of America, so she could come down to the lower 48 and serve the rest of us (except for Hawaii, which I have heard she dislikes)

If I try to count the reasons I don't like Palin, I run out of fingers and toes. And scratch paper. But if she doesn't like Hawaii, that's understandable.

Hawaii is the perfect opposite of Alaska, and of Idaho for that matter. It's tropical, Alaska is cold. It's small (in square miles of land area), Alaska is big. Hawaii is navy blue, AK is crimson Red state.

You can't see Russia from Hawaii. :-)

Pretty much everyone in the U.S. has some states they put at the bottom of their private list. Mississippi, Oklahoma, West Virginia, etc. would get the vote from many readers on this site.

But taste is just taste. If Palin likes wide open spaces, long highways with a vista, etc., then Hawaii just isn't going to be her cup of tea-party.

Gad, I can't stop snarking. Whatever. It's OK by me if somebody doesn't like Hawaii.

414 garhighway  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:15:00am

re: #413 lostlakehiker

If I try to count the reasons I don't like Palin, I run out of fingers and toes. And scratch paper. But if she doesn't like Hawaii, that's understandable.

Hawaii is the perfect opposite of Alaska, and of Idaho for that matter. It's tropical, Alaska is cold. It's small (in square miles of land area), Alaska is big. Hawaii is navy blue, AK is crimson Red state.

You can't see Russia from Hawaii. :-)

Pretty much everyone in the U.S. has some states they put at the bottom of their private list. Mississippi, Oklahoma, West Virginia, etc. would get the vote from many readers on this site.

But taste is just taste. If Palin likes wide open spaces, long highways with a vista, etc., then Hawaii just isn't going to be her cup of tea-party.

Gad, I can't stop snarking. Whatever. It's OK by me if somebody doesn't like Hawaii.

My guess would be that the parts of America that Sarah does not include in her "real America" are populated by people that are less pale than she is.

Just a hunch.

415 Gus  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:21:48am

Wake up rise and shine! Time to get the bacon and eggs on the griddle and milk the cows!

416 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:22:25am

Pakistani investigative journalist was tortured to death: police

Grief-stricken relatives demanded Wednesday that Pakistan investigate the torture and murder of an investigative journalist whose disappearance was blamed on the country's shadowy intelligence services.

Saleem Shahzad, a 40-year-old father of three, vanished after leaving home in Islamabad to appear on a television talk show, two days after writing an article about links between rogue elements of the navy and al-Qaida.

Shahzad carved out a career writing about the plethora of Islamist militant networks operating in Pakistan, and warned human rights campaigners before his disappearance that he had been threatened by the Inter-Services Intelligence.

..."The cause of death is torture and there are several signs of torture on his body and face," said Ashok Kumar, one of the doctors who carried out a post-mortem at Islamabad's Pakistan Institute of Medical Science.

Another doctor told AFP that Shahzad's lungs and liver had been damaged, that the body was swollen and bore more than 15 signs of having been beaten.

I wonder how the ISI is going to spin this?

417 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:27:52am

re: #414 garhighway

My guess would be that the parts of America that Sarah does not include in her "real America" are populated by people that are less pale than she is.

Just a hunch.

I dunno. Plenty of white folks in Berkeley, CA.

I think she just doesn't like people who aren't as bigoted as she is.

418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:30:12am

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

Alrighty. Gotta run. The office calls!!

He's recently become a dick. Have you noticed?

419 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:30:14am

re: #416 NJDhockeyfan

Pakistani investigative journalist was tortured to death: police

I wonder how the ISI is going to spin this?

Maybe something along the lines of "torture is sometimes necessary to ensure national security"?

420 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:32:51am

re: #413 lostlakehiker

I read theat she briefly attended college there but did not like the atmosphere and returned to idaho.

421 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:33:51am

re: #419 iossarian

Maybe something along the lines of "torture is sometimes necessary to ensure national security"?

If you aren't stong enough to stand up to torture, then you shouldn't be doing anything suspicious!

422 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:34:03am

re: #419 iossarian

Maybe something along the lines of "torture is sometimes necessary to ensure national security"?

Killing a journalist exposing ISI ties to al-Qaeta is "necessary to ensure national security"?

423 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:35:37am

re: #422 NJDhockeyfan

Killing a journalist exposing ISI ties to al-Qaeta is "necessary to ensure national security"?

I'm sure that's what they would tell you, yes.

One man's investigative journalist is another man's subversive. See e.g., Bradley Manning.

424 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:37:28am

re: #423 iossarian

I'm sure that's what they would tell you, yes.

One man's investigative journalist is another man's subversive. See e.g., Bradley Manning.

Are you really trying to understand some idiot claiming Bradley Manning is an investigative journalist or something to that affect?

425 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:39:01am

Gaza: America is the enemy of Allah

It has already been reported that while much of the Middle East was pleased with Osama bin Laden's assassination by American forces, the Palestinian Arabs stood out as the only regional group to oppose the elimination of the arch-terrorist.

Recent rallies in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip have revealed just how much Palestinian Islamists idolized bin Laden and how broad was his popularity on the "Palestinian street."

During the various rallies, the standard chants of the thousands of attendees have been: "Bin Laden Shattered Crosses" (speaking to their hatred of Christianity) and "America is the Enemy of Allah."

At one rally, Hamas leader Sheikh Munir Al-Aydi eulogized bin Laden by praising the latter's dedication to "lead the global jihad against America and its allies, the worshippers of the cross."

Western leaders have for the past decade been trying hard to equate Christianity with Islam and the God of the Bible with Allah. They are adamant that there is no religious war taking place.

But the Palestinian Islamists clearly do not agree.

Jimmy Carter was unavailable for comment.

426 darthstar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:40:41am

Mornin' virtual neighbors.

427 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:40:44am

re: #424 NJDhockeyfan

Are you really trying to understand some idiot claiming Bradley Manning is an investigative journalist or something to that affect?

My point is this: depending on whose secrets are being exposed, the exposer is either a heinous traitor or a virtuous paragon in the service of Human Rights.

It seems churlish to complain about the Pakistanis abusing their heinous traitors when we do the same thing.

428 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:42:09am

re: #427 iossarian

My point is this: depending on whose secrets are being exposed, the exposer is either a heinous traitor or a virtuous paragon in the service of Human Rights.

It seems churlish to complain about the Pakistanis abusing their heinous traitors when we do the same thing.

More arguable comparison might have Assange.

429 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:42:34am

re: #427 iossarian

My point is this: depending on whose secrets are being exposed, the exposer is either a heinous traitor or a virtuous paragon in the service of Human Rights.

It seems churlish to complain about the Pakistanis abusing their heinous traitors when we do the same thing.

We tortured Manning to death? You'd think that would make the news!!!//

430 darthstar  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:42:40am

re: #425 NJDhockeyfan


Jimmy Carter was unavailable for comment.

Every time you try to insult Jimmy Carter he builds another home for a poor family.

431 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:42:50am

re: #427 iossarian

My point is this: depending on whose secrets are being exposed, the exposer is either a heinous traitor or a virtuous paragon in the service of Human Rights.

It seems churlish to complain about the Pakistanis abusing their heinous traitors when we do the same thing.

By the way, I think it's horrific that the Pakistanis tortured and killed this guy, but then I also think it's horrific that our government/intelligence service collaborates with equally horrible people around the world.

432 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:42:51am

re: #427 iossarian

My point is this: depending on whose secrets are being exposed, the exposer is either a heinous traitor or a virtuous paragon in the service of Human Rights.

It seems churlish to complain about the Pakistanis abusing their heinous traitors when we do the same thing.

What a fucked up assertion. I guess you think we are currently heavily beating & torturing Bradley Manning right now.

433 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:44:02am

re: #429 rwdflynavy

We tortured Manning to death? You'd think that would make the news!!!//

You are right of course.

Our support of various South and Central American regimes, though less recent, is probably a more fair comparison.

434 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:44:34am

re: #429 rwdflynavy

We tortured Manning to death? You'd think that would make the news!!!//

I missed that one too. It's a conspiracy!

435 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:44:47am

re: #432 NJDhockeyfan

What a fucked up assertion. I guess you think we are currently heavily beating & torturing Bradley Manning right now.

I'm glad we're not. No thanks to the "ticking time bomb" idiots though.

436 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:49:52am

re: #430 darthstar

Every time you try to insult Jimmy Carter he builds another home for a poor family.

And shoots a kitty, and sends hugs & kisses to his terrorist friends, ...

437 dell*nix  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:54:05am

The idiots that refused to pull mannings security clearance should be busy raking gravel and painting rocks. Anyone with his known problems should have not been permitted to continue access to classified data.

438 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 6:55:00am

stop now, what's that sound?

439 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:00:12am

Bradley Manning's Father Says His Greatest Fear Is Son Is Guilty

When people ask Brian Manning if he is related to Pvt. Bradley Manning, he sometimes denies it. The thought that his son could be guilty of leaking classified information to WikiLeaks -- including Afghan and Iraq war logs, a quarter of a million State Department cables and two videos -- scares the elder Manning.

He hasn't had a chance to ask his son, who was arrested in May 2010, if he's guilty -- but if he is, Brian Manning was matter-of-fact in what he'd say to his son.

"You f---ing stupid idiot. Why would you do something like that?"

He added, "I would be openly embarrassed at holding up thinking he's innocent and I'd be embarrassed he'd done such a thing."

But for now, Brian Manning, who was a naval intelligence officer during the Vietnam War, is sticking by his son and denying reports the two had a fractured relationship.

I feel bad for the father. His son is a traitorous ass and he has to live with it for the rest of his life.

440 SidewaysQuark  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:00:57am

re: #15 rwmofo

So the lovely Sarah has punked the media again.

Let's recap: She's made millions of dollars, wrote two best-selling books, lead a political movement that helped take back the Congress, produced a hit documentary series, endured an unprecedented media onslaught, and maintained her presidential viability - all while the media's collective heads are, well, doing this.

Oh, the left really hates the fact she's made so much money.

Heh.


Yes, it's amazing what politicians can accomplish after riding the public's trust to stardom when they completely abdicate their real political responsibilities to cash in on their unearned fame.

441 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:02:36am

Now she's wandering about the country aimlessly, looking for the next best chance to get more attention.

SOmehow fitting and symbolic of what she is about.

442 dell*nix  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:02:48am

Ofra Haza. [Link: www.youtube.com...] You

443 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:05:13am

Two In Kentucky Charged With Plotting Iraq Attacks


Two Iraqi men living in Bowling Green are facing charges that they tried to send Stinger missles, sniper rifles and money to Al-Qaida in their home country.

A 23-count federal indictment was unsealed today against 30 year old Waad Ramadan Alwan and 23 year old Mohanad Shareef Hammadi, who have both lived in Bowling Green since 2009.

Authorities say the weapons and money didn’t make it to Iraq because of a tightly controlled undercover investigation.

444 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:06:11am

re: #427 iossarian

My point is this: depending on whose secrets are being exposed, the exposer is either a heinous traitor or a virtuous paragon in the service of Human Rights.

It seems churlish to complain about the Pakistanis abusing their heinous traitors when we do the same thing.

Last time I checked, Pvt. Manning is alive and well.
Not even the same.
analogy fail.

445 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:12:37am

re: #441 ralphieboy

Now she's wandering about the country aimlessly, looking for the next best chance to get more attention.

SOmehow fitting and symbolic of what she is about.

The media doesn't want to pay attention to her, then they shouldn't, well,.,, pay attention to her !

446 SidewaysQuark  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:13:16am

re: #173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You don't know conservative christians very well, then.

What do you think traditional family values are based on, if not estrangement, violence, and punishment for non-conformity?

This is what conservative Christians call "love". They are perverts.

Well hey, one only has to read the model of their "love" to understand this. In other words, a "Father" who demands his "children" to convince themselves of the factuality of the fact he sent his "son" to die 2000 years ago based on scant to nil evidence, lest they be eternally tortured in a pit of fire of his own making. This is the lesson of his "love".

447 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:13:45am

re: #445 sattv4u2

The media doesn't want to pay attention to her, then they shouldn't, well,.,, pay attention to her !

The press can't control themselves, just like some lizards I know.
;)

448 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:14:13am

re: #444 Ericus58

Last time I checked, Pvt. Manning is alive and well.
Not even the same.
analogy fail.

My point is this: torturing people is wrong, regardless of who does it and why. Also, it is good to have checks and balances on covert intelligence agencies that go beyond a small number of politicians.

I apologize if, in order to make these simple point, I had to stretch my analogies.

449 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:15:07am

re: #445 sattv4u2

The media doesn't want to pay attention to her, then they shouldn't, well,.,, pay attention to her !

She's a potential GOP candidate and has a lot of support among the GOP base.

450 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:15:28am

re: #448 iossarian

My point is this: torturing people is wrong, regardless of who does it and why. Also, it is good to have checks and balances on covert intelligence agencies that go beyond a small number of politicians.

I apologize if, in order to make these simple point, I had to stretch my analogies.

The US gov't is torturing Manning?

451 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:16:34am

re: #449 Varek Raith

She's a potential GOP candidate and has a lot of support among the GOP base.

And again, if the media decided right now to NOT follow her, would you know where/what/when she's doing?

Yes,, some of the base would,, which brings me to "so?"

452 garhighway  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:17:31am

re: #447 NJDhockeyfan

The press can't control themselves, just like some lizards I know.
;)


The media covers what sells. Sarah sells, just like Lady Gaga.

Such is our culture of popularity and exposure.

453 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:17:56am

I just saw that MSNBC and CNN are still following the story with Anthony Weiner.

Also saw that CNN is calling the Republican vote yesterday 'a stand.' Cute, considering there the ones who are willing to let the poor starve.

454 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:18:35am

What - is this open season on Christianity now?
Hell, why stop there - start snarking on the other religions too.
C'Mon, be an equal opportunity bigot guys.

Myself, I'm not a practicing religious guy. But I'm sure not so superior to those who are adherents to their faith as to judge them to be stupid.... or inferior.

455 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:18:45am

re: #453 ProLifeLiberal

In summary: screw news on TV.

456 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:19:31am

re: #450 sattv4u2

The US gov't is torturing Manning?

Some people think his treatment amounted to torture.

Torture isn't necessarily a black and white thing. Whether treatment constitutes torture is something that people tend not to agree on - the endless arguments over waterboarding make this very clear.

[Link: articles.baltimoresun.com...]

457 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:19:50am

Donald Trump eats pizza with a fork.
WTF.
:P

458 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:20:31am

re: #453 ProLifeLiberal

I just saw that MSNBC and CNN are still following the story with Anthony Weiner.

Also saw that CNN is calling the Republican vote yesterday 'a stand.' Cute, considering there the ones who are willing to let the poor starve.

That "stand" included about half of the house dems

459 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:23:24am

re: #457 Varek Raith

Donald Trump eats pizza with a fork.
WTF.
:P

And you needed to know that ,, why!?!?

AND ,,, you needed to SHARE that ,, why !?!?!
/

460 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:24:37am

re: #459 sattv4u2

And you needed to know that ,, why!?!?

AND ,,, you needed to SHARE that ,, why !?!?!
/

Because it's a crime against pizza.
/

461 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:24:50am

re: #458 sattv4u2

And those Democrats are morons. The Republicans just want to see things burn. They have no real plan for healthcare (disclosure:I'm Autistic, meaning I have a pre-existing condition. I've heard NO plans for my cases if they repeal it.) I've seen stories about Republicans wanting to cut FOOD STAMPS. That is evil. Meanwhile, they won't even consider cutting Oil Subsidies, Farm Subsidies, or throwing the tax cuts away. The Republicans are evil.

462 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:25:55am

re: #458 sattv4u2

That "stand" included about half of the house dems

DINOs!

463 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:27:31am

re: #458 sattv4u2

That "stand" included about half of the house dems

why do those dems want the poor to starve?
/

464 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:27:35am

re: #461 ProLifeLiberal

Don't forget puppies,,,, they want to kill puppies too

465 [deleted]  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:28:02am
466 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:28:46am

re: #464 sattv4u2

Don't forget puppies,,, they want to kill puppies too

And push elderly ladies in wheelchairs off cliffs!

467 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:29:25am

Lol.
GOP pity party.
:P

468 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:29:31am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

It's always open season on Christianity around here. Say one bad thing about a muslim and you are considered an Islomophobe... but it's OK to slam all Christians.

Actually, the slam was on "conservative Christians". I have no problem slamming "fundamentalist Muslims" - those guys are idiots.

469 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:30:24am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

It's always open season on Christianity around here. Say one bad thing about a muslim and you are considered an Islomophobe... but it's OK to slam all Christians.

Fuck religion.
Happy?

470 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:30:28am

re: #464 sattv4u2

Don't forget puppies,,, they want to kill puppies too

Actually, they do.

471 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:30:39am

re: #467 Varek Raith

Lol.
GOP pity party.
:P

Ha! It's so ridonculous to suggest that the GOP wants to make the poor and elderly worse off.

Why there's no evidence for that, except for the tax hikes on the elderly, and the cutting of benefit programs for the poor...

472 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:30:47am

re: #468 iossarian

Actually, the slam was on "conservative Christians". I have no problem slamming "fundamentalist Muslims" - those guys are idiots.

Conservative Christians are evil?

473 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:31:01am

re: #464 sattv4u2

What about what I said was at all hyperbolic? They want to kill Obamacare (leaving people like me unable to get health insurance, and by extension, most health care), and are willing to slash food stamps, literally letting people starve.

474 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:31:10am

re: #470 recusancy

Actually, they do.

Pwned.

475 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:31:29am

re: #470 recusancy

Actually, they do.

BAZING!

476 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:31:44am

re: #472 NJDhockeyfan

Conservative Christians are evil?

If they believe that women shouldn't be allowed access to a safe abortion, then yes, I would put them in the "evil" box.

477 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:31:58am

So, someone educate me then as to how voting against raising the debt ceiling by Republicans/Democrats/whoever today is worse than those that voted against raising the debt ceiling when Bush was in the WH.

Serious question.
The end result is both cases is the same, yes?

478 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:32:24am

re: #472 NJDhockeyfan

Conservative Christians are evil?

Also if they believe that homosexual marriage should remain illegal.

479 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:32:55am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

It's always open season on Christianity around here. Say one bad thing about a muslim and you are considered an Islomophobe... but it's OK to slam all Christians.

By 'it's okay', you mean it'll get you downdinged heavily and flamed repeatedly?

480 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:33:32am

re: #477 Ericus58

So, someone educate me then as to how voting against raising the debt ceiling by Republicans/Democrats/whoever today is worse than those that voted against raising the debt ceiling when Bush was in the WH.

Serious question.
The end result is both cases is the same, yes?

It passed under Bush. Those that vote against it know they have the luxury to. In this case they voted en mass against it.

481 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:34:03am

re: #476 iossarian

If they believe that women shouldn't be allowed access to a safe abortion, then yes, I would put them in the "evil" box.

re: #478 iossarian

Also if they believe that homosexual marriage should remain illegal.

They are the reincarnate of Satan!

[runs around the room screaming & shaking]

482 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:34:34am

re: #479 Obdicut

By 'it's okay', you mean it'll get you downdinged heavily and flamed repeatedly?

Whatever turns you on.
;)

483 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:34:43am

re: #470 recusancy

I forgot about that. I think his example just backfired.

484 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:34:47am

But those Conservative Christians who want to allow gays to get married, and who agree that abortion should be a basic right, and who don't hate muslims, and who don't want to raise taxes on the elderly and cut funding that supports the poor and destitute?

Those ones are OK.

485 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:36:30am

re: #482 NJDhockeyfan

Dude, seriously. Why are you claiming it's okay to attack Christians here when the person attacking Christians got heavily attacked and argued against, and downdinged, too?

486 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:37:09am

re: #477 Ericus58

So, someone educate me then as to how voting against raising the debt ceiling by Republicans/Democrats/whoever today is worse than those that voted against raising the debt ceiling when Bush was in the WH.

Serious question.
The end result is both cases is the same, yes?

The debt ceiling thing is stupid. It has to be raised (either that or we really do the "economic suicide" thing that right-wingers love to talk about).

So the end result is always the same. These intermediate votes are just posturing.

487 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:37:50am

Gotta go to work. Later folks.

:)

488 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:37:59am

re: #484 iossarian

But those Conservative Christians who want to allow gays to get married, and who agree that abortion should be a basic right, and who don't hate muslims, and who don't want to raise taxes on the elderly and cut funding that supports the poor and destitute?

Those ones are OK.

Those would be my parents, though they just think that their personal beliefs about gays and abortion shouldn't inform government policy.

Someone can be incredibly conservative in their own personal life without believing that the government should match their conservatism. In fact, it's remarkably common. Orthodox Jews tend to be highly 'conservative' in the way they live their lives, and highly 'liberal' about what the government should allow.

489 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:38:44am

re: #480 recusancy

It passed under Bush. Those that vote against it know they have the luxury to. In this case they voted en mass against it.

But wouldn't you agree that those who acted in the same manner - regardless if they had the luxury to do so - are in the same boat?

Irresponsible is still irresponsible.

490 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:39:13am

re: #486 iossarian

There is an appealing aspect to the Republican ideologues: "Let's just trash the economy now and then set about fixing it, the longer we put it off, the worse the task will be."

But I shudder at the conservatives# plans to "fix" anything...

491 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:39:17am

re: #483 ProLifeLiberal

I forgot about that. I think his example just backfired.

how so?

492 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:40:06am

re: #488 Obdicut

Very true. Apart from anything else, the word "conservative" as used in contemporary US politics doesn't really mean "conservative" at all.

493 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:40:20am

re: #488 Obdicut

Those would be my parents, though they just think that their personal beliefs about gays and abortion shouldn't inform government policy.

Someone can be incredibly conservative in their own personal life without believing that the government should match their conservatism. In fact, it's remarkably common. Orthodox Jews tend to be highly 'conservative' in the way they live their lives, and highly 'liberal' about what the government should allow.


Funny how both those groups you mentioned know what it is like to be at the receiving end of religious discrimination and even persecution in this country...

494 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:41:22am

re: #491 Ericus58

The sarcastic hyperbole he used turned out to be true.

495 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:41:44am

re: #489 Ericus58

But wouldn't you agree that those who acted in the same manner - regardless if they had the luxury to do so - are in the same boat?

Irresponsible is still irresponsible.

No. It passed before. If their vote was needed to make that happen they would have changed it. That's what always happens. It's what's happened for decades. This time is drastically different.

496 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:42:03am

re: #491 Ericus58

how so?

Because the Missouri legislators decided to re-do a bill re: puppy mills

Because there are so many sheltered dogs, they want cut down on,,, well,, MORE dogs

497 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:42:16am

re: #490 ralphieboy

There is an appealing aspect to the Republican ideologues: "Let's just trash the economy now and then set about fixing it, the longer we put it off, the worse the task will be."

I'd not thought of this before, but I wonder if people's attitude to the national debt ceiling is related to whether they have themselves been through personal bankruptcy.

498 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:44:49am

re: #490 ralphieboy

There is an appealing aspect to the Democrat ideologues: "Let's just kick the economy problems down the road now and then set about complaining about it once the Repubs are back in power!!

:)

499 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:46:44am

re: #496 sattv4u2

Because the Missouri legislators decided to re-do a bill re: puppy mills

Because there are so many sheltered dogs, they want cut down on,,, well,, MORE dogs

Umm... maybe you should read what it's about. It was to repeal a law (approved by voters) that would mandate inspections and safer conditions for dog breeding places. They wanted to go back to the cruel and despicable conditions that these puppy mills previously operated in.

500 SidewaysQuark  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:46:52am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

It's always open season on Christianity around here. Say one bad thing about a muslim and you are considered an Islomophobe... but it's OK to slam all Christians.

Actually, from what I see, this place is pretty ecumenical in its opposition against irrational nonsense. It's part of why I started hanging out here. I don't really see any serious, prolonged bashing of anything except fundamentalism of various stripes, which, let's face it, seriously has it coming.

Of course, one's sense of proportion always gets distorted when it's one's own ox getting gored as opposed to the other guy's.

501 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:46:59am

re: #494 ProLifeLiberal

The sarcastic hyperbole he used turned out to be true.

I see this action by one State's legislation in regards to puppy mills to be fucked up, no disagreement there.

But to stretch this to represent Republicans in general is.... a stretch.

502 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:47:28am

re: #498 sattv4u2

There is an appealing aspect to the Democrat ideologues: "Let's just kick the economy problems down the road now and then set about complaining about it once the Repubs are back in power!!

:)

Project much?

503 Unions = Innovation slash slash  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:47:31am

re: #460 Varek Raith

Because it's a crime against pizza.
/

Like Pineapple//

504 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:47:38am

re: #499 recusancy

Umm... maybe you should read what it's about. It was to repeal a law (approved by voters) that would mandate inspections and safer conditions for dog breeding places. They wanted to go back to the cruel and despicable conditions that these puppy mills previously operated in.

Instead, veterinarians would do walk-through inspections at least twice a year and provide exercise plans for dogs. Dogs could be confined in stacked cages so long as they had solid surfaces to lie on.

505 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:48:06am

re: #502 recusancy

Project much?

Read the post I was responding to

Compare and Contrast

506 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:48:28am

re: #498 sattv4u2

What about what he said was untrue? We wouldn't have much of a debt problem if the Tax Cuts were allowed to expire. Instead, because the Republicans held the nation hostage, we had extend them. Besides, much of the Deficit is the fault of Republicans. I'm sure you've seen that graph.

507 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:49:01am

re: #498 sattv4u2

There is an appealing aspect to the Democrat ideologues: "Let's just kick the economy problems down the road now and then set about complaining about it once the Repubs are back in power!!

:)

Just playing the same game the Republicans tried to play with Obama, but they fumbled before Obama could take office. If only they could've put off the crash until February of 2009...

508 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:50:04am

re: #505 sattv4u2

Read the post I was responding to

Compare and Contrast

I would like you, or anyone in fact, to name one single Republican policy and explain how, and by how much, it will reduce the deficit over the long term.

509 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:50:06am

If you want to talk about debt start here: Image: CBPPpublicdebt.jpg

510 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:50:16am

re: #506 ProLifeLiberal

What about what he said was untrue? We wouldn't have much of a debt problem if the Tax Cuts were allowed to expire. Instead, because the Republicans held the nation hostage, we had extend them. Besides, much of the Deficit is the fault of Republicans. I'm sure you've seen that graph.

How did the repubs "hold the nation hostage"?
The dems had the Presedency, the house and the senate and couldn't get it done

Clean your own house before trashing anothers!

511 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:50:21am

re: #501 Ericus58

I'm willing to stretch it. Anything to put Republicans on the defensive or put them in a bad position.

512 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:51:11am

re: #510 sattv4u2

How did the repubs "hold the nation hostage"?
The dems had the Presedency, the house and the senate and couldn't get it done

Clean your own house before trashing anothers!

Death panels + filibuster.

Single-payer health care in European countries costs 20-30% less than healthcare does here, for similar outcomes.

513 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:52:38am

re: #512 iossarian

Thank you for explaining it to him. He seems to have a comprehension problem.

514 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:52:48am

re: #511 ProLifeLiberal

I'm willing to stretch it. Anything to put Republicans on the defensive or put them in a bad position.

Also to counteract the childish joking that people throw up to distract from the very real and damaging shit that the GOP wants to inflict on everyone.

"Ho, ho, I suppose you think the Republicans want to kill puppies too! Ha, ha, silly liberal."

Actually. They. Do. Want. To. Kill. Puppies.

515 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:53:39am

Matt Drudge's disgusting race war awareness campaign


In an era when urban white flight is reversing and violent crime is at record lows across the nation, this world of race riots and constant violent attacks on innocent Caucasians exists only in the imaginations of Matt Drudge and the paranoid suburban and exurban white people he wants to keep terrified. Stoking those racial fears goes beyond cynical political point-scoring. To devote so much energy to attempting to make whites terrified of blacks is just vile.
516 kirkspencer  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:53:53am

re: #510 sattv4u2

How did the repubs "hold the nation hostage"?
The dems had the Presedency, the house and the senate and couldn't get it done

Clean your own house before trashing anothers!

filibuster. It means a bill needs 60 or more votes (for both sides, in case you don't recall the 'nuclear option' discussions) to be brought to a final vote.

517 recusancy  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:54:28am

re: #514 iossarian

Also to counteract the childish joking that people throw up to distract from the very real and damaging shit that the GOP wants to inflict on everyone.

"Ho, ho, I suppose you think the Republicans want to kill puppies too! Ha, ha, silly liberal."

Actually. They. Do. Want. To. Kill. Puppies.

They also want us to get sick.

518 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:55:08am

re: #511 ProLifeLiberal

I'm willing to stretch it. Anything to put Republicans on the defensive or put them in a bad position.

That is a partisan talking there.....

Whose zooming who.

519 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 7:55:45am

Anthony Weiner Makes a Weird Scandal Worse
I'm not sure if he's handling this very well.

520 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:00:10am

re: #516 kirkspencer

filibuster. It means a bill needs 60 or more votes (for both sides, in case you don't recall the 'nuclear option' discussions) to be brought to a final vote.

[Link: www.gainesville.com...]

521 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:00:50am

re: #519 Killgore Trout

Anthony Weiner Makes a Weird Scandal Worse
I'm not sure if he's handling this very well.

I heard the press conference

His non-answers were ,, bizarre

522 Obdicut  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:02:54am

re: #519 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure how you do handle this well. I'm not sure why the press isn't paying more attention to the creepy stalker dude who is the one who started the whole thing off. There seems to be very little investigation going on by the press and a lot of just talking about it.

That's the press these days, though.

523 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:04:21am

re: #508 iossarian

I would like you, or anyone in fact, to name one single Republican policy and explain how, and by how much, it will reduce the deficit over the long term.

Anyone???

524 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:07:29am

re: #522 Obdicut

I'm not sure how you do handle this well. I'm not sure why the press isn't paying more attention to the creepy stalker dude who is the one who started the whole thing off. There seems to be very little investigation going on by the press and a lot of just talking about it.

That's the press these days, though.

The press asked Wiener if he was going to pursue this criminally in that hacking is a fed crime

he never answered, instead saying (paraphrase) "if I'm giving a speech to 45,000 people and one person in the back throws a pie or an insult i'm not spending the next two hours addressing that person"

525 makeitstop  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:08:10am

This morning's depressing news - New York Post and news radio outlet 1010WINS have both picked up Dim Hoft's 'Weiner has a bevy of beauties on Twitter' trash and is running with it.

526 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:09:14am

re: #521 sattv4u2

I heard the press conference

His non-answers were ,, bizarre


It was as if Weiner was playing into Breitbart's hands....

527 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:10:19am

re: #523 Varek Raith

Lol

528 Interesting Times  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:11:06am

re: #522 Obdicut

I'm not sure how you do handle this well. I'm not sure why the press isn't paying more attention to the creepy stalker dude who is the one who started the whole thing off. There seems to be very little investigation going on by the press and a lot of just talking about it.

Yes! That's the real story as far as I'm concerned.

529 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:11:34am

re: #520 sattv4u2

[Link: www.gainesville.com...]

So you think that the Dems should have eliminated the filibuster. Interesting.

I do agree that centrist Democrats share some of the blame for not pushing stronger healthcare reform, but then the solution to that is not exactly to vote GOP, is it?

How about getting back to me on one of those deficit-reducing Republican policies, by the way?

530 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:13:22am

re: #529 iossarian

So you think that the Dems should have eliminated the filibuster. Interesting.

I do agree that centrist Democrats share some of the blame for not pushing stronger healthcare reform, but then the solution to that is not exactly to vote GOP, is it?

How about getting back to me on one of those deficit-reducing Republican policies, by the way?

No he doesn't. It's just something to bash the dems with.

531 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:16:09am

re: #529 iossarian

How about getting back to me on one of those deficit-reducing Republican policies, by the way?

Sure,,,as soon as the President can submit a workable budget!
(after all, that IS a prerequisite of the office!)
[Link: www.gainesville.com...]

532 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:16:45am

re: #531 sattv4u2

How about getting back to me on one of those deficit-reducing Republican policies, by the way?

Sure,,,as soon as the President can submit a workable budget!
(after all, that IS a prerequisite of the office!)
[Link: www.gainesville.com...]

I bet you can't name one.

533 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:16:49am

re: #530 Varek Raith

No he doesn't. It's just something to bash the dems with.

Wow ,, I said that? And I didn't even see your lips move!!

cool!!

534 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:17:40am

re: #530 Varek Raith

No he doesn't. It's just something to bash the dems with.

Well, exactly. When the legislation was going through there was SO MUCH WHINING about how the Dems were such meanies for forcing it through without the right kind of gentle persuasion that might have resulted in zero GOP votes in favor instead of zero (bipartisanship!).

Now it's all "they should have just eliminated the filibuster, declared martial law and sacrificed the Koch brothers in a Wiccan ceremony to appease Gaia".

535 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:18:25am

re: #533 sattv4u2

Wow ,, I said that? And I didn't even see your lips move!!

cool!!

Y U PUT WORDS IN MY MOUF!??!!?

(And where is Walter, by the way?)

536 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:19:43am

re: #532 Varek Raith

I bet you can't name one.

Name me one, just ONE of the suggestions of his own bipartisan commisian that the President will embrace

[Link: www.fiscalcommission.gov...]
(pdf)

537 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:20:32am

re: #532 Varek Raith

re: #536 sattv4u2

Name me one, just ONE of the suggestions of his own bipartisan commisian that the President will embrace

[Link: www.fiscalcommission.gov...]
(pdf)

((and btw ,, I like some of the suggestion)

538 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:21:00am

re: #535 iossarian

Y U PUT WORDS IN MY MOUF!??!!?

(And where is Walter, by the way?)

I'd tell ya, but then I'd have ta kill ya!

539 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:21:10am

Stupid firefox and PDFs.
:/

540 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:22:49am

re: #521 sattv4u2

I heard the press conference

His non-answers were ,, bizarre

Well I think he's probably taking his lawyer's advice and staying quiet while they decide what legal course they're going to pursue.

541 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:24:27am

re: #540 Killgore Trout

Well I think he's probably taking his lawyer's advice and staying quiet while they decide what legal course they're going to pursue.

You don't "stay quiet" by holding a press conference outside the front door of the house chamber

542 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:26:24am

Is Walter on a time out?

543 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:27:14am

re: #542 Ericus58

Is Walter on a time out?

He was.

544 Interesting Times  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:27:59am

re: #542 Ericus58

Is Walter on a time out?

It's now expired (they last for 24 hrs), but until you try logging in again, your user profile continues to show the "timeout" message.

545 Varek Raith  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:29:47am

Later gators.

546 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:32:43am

brb,,,have to go "find" a new satellite

547 iossarian  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:36:18am

re: #536 sattv4u2

Name me one, just ONE of the suggestions of his own bipartisan commisian that the President will embrace

[Link: www.fiscalcommission.gov...]
(pdf)

Let me give you a personal example of why I don't take current Republican policies seriously (and this includes the Republican side of the suggestions made in the document you link to). I work in higher education. It is a fact (you can go and look it up) that the various state higher ed systems provide college education more efficiently than their private competitors. This is for the same reason that single-payer healthcare works: you can achieve economies of scale, and you can also impose meaningful cost restrictions when you are operating what is effectively a natural monopoly.

But the Republicans want to cut the size of government. So they cut taxes, and defund state higher ed systems (California is the most famous current example, but it's happening all over the country).

As a result, tuition will go up. This has two effects. One is that poor people find it harder to go to college. You may not care about this, fair enough.

The second effect, though, is that higher education ends up consuming a greater share of GDP. So the state is smaller, but we are, overall, worse off (except for professors, and incidentally people like me, who get paid more as a result).

If you look through that document, you will see that the Republican-proposed measures are basically cuts to spending, but there isn't much about what costs those cuts will incur. If you cut early childhood education funding, for example, this is even more damaging than cutting higher ed, since this is an age at which you have a good chance of preventing the damaging behaviors that cost a lot to remedy down the road.

And all this is unconnected from the simple reality that government workers get paid less (in total compensation) than private sector workers, over the long term.

So again, come back to me with a Republican proposal that reduces the deficit over the long term. I can wait a long time and sadly I expect I'll have to.

548 sattv4u2  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:48:12am

re: #547 iossarian


I work in higher education.

I don't need a lecture on "higher education"

My wife is a teacher, has worked on and off (mostly on) since 1975

I have served on two separate city school committees. I am currently on an advisory board for the private K-12 school my son now attends
I'm well aware of many sides of the issue of education

549 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:54:00am

re: #525 makeitstop

Fox 5 NY's Good Day NY made a passing reference to that NY Post story, and Greg Kelly scoffed at the whole thing - as if it makes any difference that Weiner follows some nice looking women.

Weiner's right that this is being done to distract him from his business, but the media simply takes stuff on its face and can't be bothered to actually investigate and report stuff. Instead, they're taking the easy way out and rehashing what other people are saying.

550 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:54:36am

Preventive care is most always cheaper than the alternatives - but only when considered over the long run. One thing that we get from the private economy is a fixation on next year's or even next quarter#s bottom line.

We need to be able to see beyond that.

551 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 8:59:09am

re: #547 iossarian

And that ignores the fact that higher education costs are outpacing all other costs incurred - including health care costs by a wide margin. It significantly exceeds the rate of inflation, and that can be attributed in part to the fact that student loans essentially subsidize those institutions receiving the funds, and with those loans so easily accessible, those same institutions feel that they can raise their tuition without worrying about whether the students can afford it - since they get the money regardless via the subsidized student loans (which are the primary form of student loans).

552 CuriousLurker  Wed, Jun 1, 2011 2:15:17pm

re: #547 iossarian

Thanks for the real world example. When you posted it this morning I was lurking as I often do, watching and hoping to learn something new. Thanks to you, my time wasn't wasted.

I'm no good with math or economics and I don't know much about higher education, so I found what you had to say both interesting & enlightening. Personal anecdotes expressed in plain language (as opposed to the economic or financial geek speak that makes my eyes glaze over) always make things like this much easier to digest.


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