Australian Climate Scientists Targeted with Hate Mail and Death Threats

A climate of fear
Science • Views: 33,064

In Australia, climate scientists are being targeted with a rabid hate mail campaign and death threats.

The Australian National University has confirmed it moved several high-profile climate scientists, economists and policy researchers into more secure buildings, following explicit threats to their personal safety.

Scientists at universities in NSW and Queensland have told of being moved to high security buildings, where their names do not appear on staff directory lists or on their office door.

”If you want to find me, it’s impossible unless you make an appointment, sign in with some form of photo identification, and are personally escorted to my door,” one scientist said.

”That’s directly as a result of threats made against me.”

More than 30 researchers across Australia ranging from ecologists and environmental policy experts to meteorologists and atmospheric physicists told The Canberra Times they are receiving a stream of abusive emails threatening violence, sexual assault, public smear campaigns and attacks on family members.

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278 comments
1 3CPO  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:16:07pm

Wow. Let the book-burning begin.

2 Summer Seale  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:17:10pm

The Right Wing: Making Science Into Public Enemy Number One.

3 HappyWarrior  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:18:25pm

This is really messed up. So sick of the right's blind hatred of science and scientists.

4 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:18:45pm

Someone fill me in...why death threats?

5 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:20:12pm

No comment needed for this post.

Res ipsa loquitur

The thing speaks for itself.

6 elizajane  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:28:56pm

Maybe I'm unduly optimistic, but I feel like the lunatics' days are numbered on this one. Yesterday Mitt Romney said that climate change was real, and at least in part caused by mankind, and apart from a few sad shrieks of "RINO! Is there anything on which Mitt doesn't agree with Obama?" there was silence from the Right. It was nothing at all like the furor when Newt suggested that Ryancare was sub-optimal.

Possibly the Republicans are catching on the the fact that MR is their only viable candidate and they'd better not eat him alive. But also possibly, they're beginning to realize that flat out science denial is not in their best long-term interest.

A drastic attitude change on the right about climate science would be a very good thing for the planet, our grandchildren, etc.

7 Hawaii69  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:29:31pm

I don't know why they're bothering to hide out. Most likely, those threats are coming from Americans who couldn't find australia on a map.....

8 Digital Display  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:29:58pm

This is nuts! Thank God for Scientists and our modern life, Medicine, Computers, cars and everything we take for granted

9 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:31:15pm

re: #6 elizajane

Maybe I'm unduly optimistic, but I feel like the lunatics' days are numbered on this one. Yesterday Mitt Romney said that climate change was real, and at least in part caused by mankind, and apart from a few sad shrieks of "RINO! Is there anything on which Mitt doesn't agree with Obama?" there was silence from the Right. It was nothing at all like the furor when Newt suggested that Ryancare was sub-optimal.

Er ... you may want to take a look around the right wing blogs to see what they're saying about Romney. He's being absolutely savaged.

10 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:33:08pm

re: #6 elizajane

Maybe I'm unduly optimistic, but I feel like the lunatics' days are numbered on this one. Yesterday Mitt Romney said that climate change was real, and at least in part caused by mankind, and apart from a few sad shrieks of "RINO! Is there anything on which Mitt doesn't agree with Obama?" there was silence from the Right. It was nothing at all like the furor when Newt suggested that Ryancare was sub-optimal.

Possibly the Republicans are catching on the the fact that MR is their only viable candidate and they'd better not eat him alive. But also possibly, they're beginning to realize that flat out science denial is not in their best long-term interest.

A drastic attitude change on the right about climate science would be a very good thing for the planet, our grandchildren, etc.

I hope you are right.

I really, really do.

11 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:34:16pm

re: #9 Charles

Er ... you may want to take a look around the right wing blogs to see what they're saying about Romney. He's being absolutely savaged.

Ayep. The party at large may be keeping their yaps shut, but the "base" is more than fired up about his comments. He's toast.

12 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:37:36pm

re: #11 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ayep. The party at large may be keeping their yaps shut, but the "base" is more than fired up about his comments. He's toast.

I believe the party at large isn't as radical as the base hope they are.

I'm hoping the lunatic fringe 'peaks' long before the election.

If the best the base can do is savage Romney rather than focus on a positive message/plan, that is exactly what will happen.

13 Wayne A. Schneider  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:38:42pm

Is there any evidence that global warming deniers are being similarly threatened by anyone on the left? I've heard of none. And the right-wingers call us the dangerous ones.

14 BishopX  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:38:52pm

re: #4 eclectic infidel

Someone fill me in...why death threats?

Australia is implementing a carbon tax. Some yahoos have decided that the scientists are to blame for them having to pay more money for barbecue fuels. It's a bit like shooting the messenger.

15 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:41:08pm

re: #12 researchok

I believe the party at large isn't as radical as the base hope they are.

I'm hoping the lunatic fringe 'peaks' long before the election.

If the best the base can do is savage Romney rather than focus on a positive message/plan, that is exactly what will happen.

Agree with all that. You don't win an election by saying "He sucks, I'm better". If you don't put forth a comprehensive plan for whatever stance you are taking the other guy will.
And good afternoon honcos.

16 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:41:08pm

re: #12 researchok

Lunatics are not the fringe in the GOP any more. They're the base.

And I seriously doubt that anything is going to "peak" before the election. For Pete's sake, look at the candidates! Every one of them is rushing to pander to the extreme right wing base, even Romney.

If you vote for a Republican in the next election, you'll be supporting the far right agenda -- destroying women's rights, class war, homophobia, and religious fanaticism. That's all that's left of the Republican Party.

17 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:41:42pm

re: #12 researchok

I believe the party at large isn't as radical as the base hope they are.

I'm hoping the lunatic fringe 'peaks' long before the election.

If the best the base can do is savage Romney rather than focus on a positive message/plan, that is exactly what will happen.

I believe that there's a gulf between the "Tea Party" fringe and the GOP leadership when it comes to most things, a gulf which is ultimately going to cost them the election. But right now, it's a gulf that is being bridged in the hopes of winning next year, which makes candidates like Romney DOA.

18 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:42:08pm

re: #16 Charles

If you vote for a Republican in the next election, you'll be supporting the far right agenda -- destroying women's rights, class war, homophobia, and religious fanaticism. That's all that's left of the Republican Party.

You forgot the racism.

19 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:42:24pm

re: #2 Summer

The Right Wing: Making Science Into Public Enemy Number One.

They are now as crazy and dangerous sounding as the ALF and ELF folks have proven themselves to be. Gotta love a zealot. Or not. Just one recent example, but through the last couple of decades a lot of time and money went into fortifying and hiding biological laboratories on campuses. Of course the lessons learned in dealing with the "animal rights" lunatics may help in dealing with these threats.

Chancellor condemns new violence by anti–animal research extremists
By Phil Hampton November 25, 2008
Anti–animal research extremists have claimed responsibility for torching two vehicles in front of a Los Angeles home as part of a campaign of illegal harassment and violent acts directed at campus researchers and their families.

UCLA police — who are investigating with the FBI, the LAPD and the Los Angeles Fire Department arson unit — said the home where the two vehicles were destroyed is owned by somebody unaffiliated with animal research at UCLA. A UCLA researcher lives nearby, and extremists apparently got the address wrong, police said.

"Through these reprehensible tactics and reckless behavior, anti–animal research extremists demonstrate repeatedly that they are willing not only to risk the lives of those who spend their careers working to help others but also the lives of the unsuspecting general public, including children," UCLA Chancellor Gene Block said. "Words cannot express the contempt we hold for these acts of cowardice that have now put in harm's way not only our faculty, students and staff but their families, friends and neighbors. UCLA police will continue to work closely with the FBI and other law enforcement agencies to bring to justice those responsible, and I ask anyone with information to come forward."

[Link: newsroom.ucla.edu...]

20 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:42:39pm

re: #13 Wayne A. Schneider

Public figures of all types get death (or other) threats.

It seems down in Oz that there has been a spate recently against climatologists and related figures. Could just be one weirdo, or a small group.

Recently in Australia the politics of climate change has been coming to head. The leading parties either give lip service to the idea, or actually want to do something about it. Anyway, they are farther along than the US body politic in trying to find a way to deal with AGW. This has made the topic a more central player in their public debates.

21 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:45:53pm

OT

Economic recovery my ass.

22 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:47:25pm

re: #16 Charles

Lunatics are not the fringe in the GOP any more. They're the base.

And I seriously doubt that anything is going to "peak" before the election. For Pete's sake, look at the candidates! Every one of them is rushing to pander to the extreme right wing base, even Romney.

If you vote for a Republican in the next election, you'll be supporting the far right agenda -- destroying women's rights, class war, homophobia, and religious fanaticism. That's all that's left of the Republican Party.

That's the problem, really. The GOP is kowtowing to the fringe and buying into the fringe populism.

I'm hoping as the election nears that big, strong 'silent majority' of middle of the road GOP voters will turn their backs on party unity and back a saner candidate.

If they don't, the GOP implodes.

There has to be an alternative to the GOP on todays menu. If there isn't, lots of conservatives will stay home.

23 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:47:26pm

re: #21 Ojoe

OT

Economic recovery my ass.

Could have been worse.

You have a crack there....

24 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:49:38pm

re: #21 Ojoe

OT

Economic recovery my ass.

there is non...only bumps in the road and headwinds...
easily the most stupid statement by BO yet...
he's simply out to lunch on the economy

25 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:51:14pm

re: #22 researchok

I personally won't stay home because of other things when they come up to vote for (I have some judges in my sights, but NOT like that). But I can simply write in a candidate or not vote for people.

26 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:51:27pm

The US economy stopped being on a sound basis as early as the 90's, after the high-tech bubble burst and was replaced by the mortgage securities/housing bubble.

The economy will have to get worse before it can recover, BO cvan at best limit the collateral social damage that it will precipitate.

28 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:52:04pm

google search "animal research bombing:"
[Link: www.google.com...]
And I'm kinda chuckling imagining the "atmospheric physicists" and their reaction to receiving death threats. Baffled? Almost flattered in a way that somebody finds their work sexy/rogue enough to make death threats? Getting lost on the way to the new hidden office?

29 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:52:20pm

re: #21 Ojoe

Perhaps a more accurate description would be that the financial crisis was stabilized, and that the US economy stopped shrinking and economic activity increased a bit.

But... and this will be played for all it's worth and more in this presidential campaign ... the recovery has been weak and very pocketed. American lifestyle aspirations are well beyond the physical reality.

30 Interesting Times  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:52:35pm

re: #13 Wayne A. Schneider

Is there any evidence that global warming deniers are being similarly threatened by anyone on the left? I've heard of none. And the right-wingers call us the dangerous ones.

No. The lion's share of home-grown, non-Al Qaeda domestic terrorism in the US has (since the 1990s) come from right-wing extremists (see abortion clinic bombings, Oklahoma City, the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, Tennessee church shootings, Dr Tiller murder, attempted attack on Tides Foundation as inspired by Glenn Beck, etc)

31 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:53:51pm

re: #26 ralphieboy

The US economy stopped being on a sound basis as early as the 90's, after the high-tech bubble burst and was replaced by the mortgage securities/housing bubble.

The economy will have to get worse before it can recover, BO cvan at best limit the collateral social damage that it will precipitate.

Perhaps correlated to when Nike, Springmaid Wamsutta, et al lead the way to sending all the factories to China?

32 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:54:30pm

re: #26 ralphieboy

The US economy stopped being on a sound basis as early as the 90's, after the high-tech bubble burst and was replaced by the mortgage securities/housing bubble.

The economy will have to get worse before it can recover, BO cvan at best limit the collateral social damage that it will precipitate.

I don't think democrats are too concerned about the economy, or anybody else in govt for that matter

33 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:54:31pm

re: #25 Cannadian Club Akbar

I personally won't stay home because of other things when they come up to vote for (I have some judges in my sights, but NOT like that). But I can simply write in a candidate or not vote for people.

That's the best idea.

No one says you have to vote for a presidential candidate.

34 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:54:54pm

re: #31 funky chicken

The export of jobs is about equivalent to a severed artery, economically.

35 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:55:04pm

Indeed, it is the lingering jobs (or lack of jobs) problem that has President Obama pushing political hot buttons like more drilling (which of course means more CO2 in the atmosphere.)

Between near term economic growth pressures and long term climate problems, the politician will always side with the former, if he/she wants to be re-elected.

36 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:55:36pm

re: #33 researchok

That's the best idea.

No one says you have to vote for a presidential candidate.

I'll be voting for Barack Obama.

37 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:56:06pm

re: #26 ralphieboy

The economy will have to get worse before it can recover, BO cvan at best limit the collateral social damage that it will precipitate.

Oh, but it's so much FUN to blame Obama for it anyway!

38 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:56:20pm

re: #36 Charles

Well except who knows what will transpire between then and now.

39 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:57:01pm

re: #38 Ojoe

Well except who knows what will transpire between then and now.

the GOP will go farther off the rails...

40 M. Dubious  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:57:08pm

re: #24 albusteve

there is non...only bumps in the road and headwinds...
easily the most stupid statement by BO yet...
he's simply out to lunch on the economy

Green economy will fix it. It will be great, because not only will it save the economy, it will also save the planet. All good things come to those who wait.

Not really a comment, more like a prayer, really.

41 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:57:40pm

re: #36 Charles

I'll be voting for Barack Obama.

It will still come down to who has the House and the Senate.

42 Flounder  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:58:04pm

I guess them Australian coal miners are a wee bit upset about the proposed carbon pricing

43 Summer Seale  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:59:01pm

re: #36 Charles

I'll be voting for Barack Obama.

You can bet I'll be registering my absentee ballot early and voting for him without fail from overseas.

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:59:02pm

re: #40 harald

Green economy will fix it. It will be great, because not only will it save the economy, it will also save the planet. All good things come to those who wait.

Not really a comment, more like a prayer, really.


please leave off the build-it-up-to-kick-it-down approach.

if green technology helops lessening our dependence on the Middle East's resources and creates some domestic jobs, then it is a positive step.

45 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:59:16pm

re: #40 harald

Green economy will fix it. It will be great, because not only will it save the economy, it will also save the planet. All good things come to those who wait.

Not really a comment, more like a prayer, really.

we don't even have a comprehensive energy plan yet...a green economy is decades away, if ever...and tax reform is only a novelty at this point..we're hosed

46 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 2:59:23pm

re: #40 harald

Green economy will fix it. It will be great, because not only will it save the economy, it will also save the planet. All good things come to those who wait.

Not really a comment, more like a prayer, really.

China makes a hell of a solar panel. Cheap.

47 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:00:02pm

re: #38 Ojoe

Well except who knows what will transpire between then and now.

It doesn't matter what happens. I'll never vote for a Republican again. This morally bankrupt, anti-science, race-baiting party of luddites and lunatics has totally lost me, forever.

48 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:00:10pm

re: #36 Charles

I'll be voting for Barack Obama.

Funny thing is, I like the guy. I have no issues with his FP for the most part, national security, or even domestic policies.

I just couldn't vote for him mainly because of how he proposes to pay for health care reform. That alone could bankrupt.

That said if that were renegotiated (I support HC reform), the jobs return and there is a decent attempt at spending cuts and tax hikes, I could be persuaded otherwise.

49 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:00:13pm

re: #30 publicityStunted

Ummm....

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

This guy is a zealot with a brain. A lot of the TP "patriots" can't actually accomplish what they would like. That's a good thing, BTW.

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:00:27pm

re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar

China makes a hell of a solar panel. Cheap.


Germany is also a techological leader in any sort of alternative energy these days: they have to be, they have finally decided to phase out nuclear over the next 20 years...

51 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:01:08pm

re: #47 Charles

There's always the Modern Whigs LOL.

52 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:01:30pm

re: #36 Charles

I'll be voting for Barack Obama.

Heh. Me too. And if Rick Scott and his compatriots keep up their act, so will my very, very conservative husband.

53 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:01:46pm

re: #51 Ojoe

There's always the Modern Whigs LOL.

Been a while since I heard that statement.:)

54 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:01:58pm

re: #48 researchok

Funny thing is, I like the guy. I have no issues with his FP for the most part, national security, or even domestic policies.

I just couldn't vote for him mainly because of how he proposes to pay for health care reform. That alone could bankrupt.

That said if that were renegotiated (I support HC reform), the jobs return and there is a decent attempt at spending cuts and tax hikes, I could be persuaded otherwise.

That sounds so reasonable -- until you look at the alternative. How could you not vote for Obama?

55 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:02:39pm

re: #50 ralphieboy

Germany is also a techological leader in any sort of alternative energy these days: they have to be, they have finally decided to phase out nuclear over the next 20 years...

heh...the US has led the way phasing out nuclear power for decades...we just never planned any alternative....Americans are looking pretty idiotic to me..
NIMBY!

56 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:02:46pm

re: #53 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think I am the only Whig in my county.

BBL

57 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:02:58pm

re: #48 researchok

I like him too... but I think the office of the President of the US is highly compromised wrt almost every domestic policy issue. It's unlikely President Obama will accomplish much between now and the election, and if he is re-elected I'm not expecting anything dramatically better in the next term.

58 Irenicum  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:03:54pm

The modern Republican party is unrecognizable from the one of Lincoln, TR, Ike and Rockefeller. They're completely unhinged.

59 Digital Display  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:04:00pm

re: #56 Ojoe

I think I am the only Whig in my county country.

BBL

60 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:04:09pm

re: #54 wrenchwench

That sounds so reasonable -- until you look at the alternative. How could you not vote for Obama?

I will not vote...voting against BO is stupid and just plain wrong IMO

61 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:05:35pm

re: #60 albusteve

I will not vote...voting against BO is stupid and just plain wrong IMO

but I could change my mind..this cycle, nothing is set in stone

62 Irenicum  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:06:06pm

Hell, by today's GOP standards, Nixon would be considered a Marxist.

63 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:06:22pm

re: #61 albusteve

but I could change my mind..this cycle, nothing is set in stone

So, you might run for President, Mr. Trump?
///

64 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:06:53pm

An updated to the story:


Death threats fail to shake climate scientists

A number of the country's top climate change scientists, including several at the Australian National University (ANU), have been targeted by death threats and abusive phone calls for months.

But the situation has now worsened, and ANU has moved its scientists to a more secure location and introduced other security measures.

Professor David Koroly from the University of Melbourne says he receives threats every time he is interviewed by the media.

"It is clear that there is a campaign in terms of either organised or disorganised threats to discourage scientists from presenting the best available climate science on television or radio," he said.

[...]

Interesting assertion... I wonder if it will be proven, and if it is organized who indeed would be the organizer?

65 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:06:57pm

re: #54 wrenchwench

That sounds so reasonable -- until you look at the alternative. How could you not vote for Obama?

Honestly WW, the how we're oing to pay for HC reform scares the hell out of me.

It really is a lead balloon. Take that worry away and I'd back the guy.

Time will tell if he will be considered a great president. No way around that.

As it is, he'll be considered a damn good president for sure.

In my estimation, he;s make one political mistake. He 'took care' of the unions (they demanded that as payback for support) first, as opposed to creating jobs as his first priority.

From a politycal POV, not the smartest move.

OK, so he's batting .750

66 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:07:26pm

re: #62 Irenicum

Heh, it was Nixon who took us off of the Gold standard!!

67 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:07:42pm

re: #64 freetoken

If it is organized by someone, I want that person arrested, and in jail for eternity.

68 Jeezaloo  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:07:48pm

re: #62 Irenicum

Hell, by today's GOP standards, Nixon would be considered a Marxist.

Huh? I thought Nixon was white.

69 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:07:54pm

re: #57 freetoken

I like him too... but I think the office of the President of the US is highly compromised wrt almost every domestic policy issue. It's unlikely President Obama will accomplish much between now and the election, and if he is re-elected I'm not expecting anything dramatically better in the next term.

You know what they say- if you want to make enemies, propose change.

70 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:08:54pm

re: #67 ProLifeLiberal

More from the latest ABC link:

... ANU vice-chancellor Professor Ian Young says scientists at the university in Canberra have received large numbers of emails, including death threats and abusive phone calls, threatening to attack the academics in the street if they continue their research.

He says it has been happening for the past six months and the situation has worsened significantly in recent weeks.

"Obviously climate research is an emotive issue at the present time," he said.

"These are issues where we should have a logical public debate and it's completely intolerable that people be subjected to this sort of abuse and to threats like this.

"I think it is totally outrageous and the vast majority of Australians would think it is totally unacceptable for anybody in society to be subjected to this sort of behaviour."

The Australian Federal Police says it is aware of the issue, but there is no investigation underway.

The latest response to the threats comes ahead of nationwide rallies across the country today in support of climate action and a price on pollution.

71 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:08:58pm

re: #63 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, you might run for President, Mr. Trump?
///

I could do better than any GOP freakzoid out there

72 M. Dubious  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:09:01pm

re: #63 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, you might run for President, Mr. Trump?
///

Between Trump and Palin I'd go for rectal cancer. I did like Hillary though, because apparently she is really good at late night calls.

73 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:09:31pm

re: #65 researchok

I really, really need to preview.

Really.

74 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:11:09pm

re: #65 researchok

Honestly WW, the how we're oing to pay for HC reform scares the hell out of me.

It really is a lead balloon. Take that worry away and I'd back the guy.

Time will tell if he will be considered a great president. No way around that.

As it is, he'll be considered a damn good president for sure.

In my estimation, he;s make one political mistake. He 'took care' of the unions (they demanded that as payback for support) first, as opposed to creating jobs as his first priority.

From a politycal POV, not the smartest move.

OK, so he's batting .750

needs to be some oversight with the stimulus bill....I'll bet $500b went straight through the states into their bloated union mandates

75 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:12:07pm

re: #73 researchok

I really, really need to preview.

Really.

I keep trying to edit in the Preview pane. Doesn't work.

Back to the bikes.

76 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:14:01pm

re: #74 albusteve

needs to be some oversight with the stimulus bill...I'll bet $500b went straight through the states into their bloated union mandates

That's part of what I'm talking about.

Had jobs been the first priority, the brouhaha would have been mitigated and maybe even ignored.

Patronage and support have been part of the Dems and GOP program since the beginning of time. It isn't as if paybacks are a new idea.

77 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:15:48pm

re: #76 researchok

That's part of what I'm talking about.

Had jobs been the first priority, the brouhaha would have been mitigated and maybe even ignored.

Patronage and support have been part of the Dems and GOP program since the beginning of time. It isn't as if paybacks are a new idea.

extortion is the new payback...look for another stimulus in 2012

78 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:16:28pm

re: #77 albusteve

extortion is the new payback...look for another stimulus in 2012

IIRC, they're already working on it.

79 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:17:55pm

re: #77 albusteve

extortion is the new payback...look for another stimulus in 2012

I can only imagine what the evangelicals will want if the GOP wins in 2012.

Now that ought to scare voters

80 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:18:59pm

I hope this doesn't burst anyone's anti-Obama bubble: Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs.

81 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:19:13pm

re: #77 albusteve

extortion is the new payback...look for another stimulus in 2012

Probably not unless something serious happens. I used to be more skeptical about the stimulus, bailouts, healthcare reform, etc, until I figured out the economic conservatism is full of shit. None of their predictions came true about hyperinflation, economic collapse, etc. Yes, the debt is a serious concern but very few of the people complaining about it are serious.

82 albusteve  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:19:18pm

re: #78 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC, they're already working on it.

the perfect storm...sinking revenues, rising cost of govt, printing money, energy spiking, housing dead, 9% unemployment...oh wait, it's already like that

83 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:20:06pm

re: #80 Charles

I hope this doesn't burst anyone's anti-Obama bubble: Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs.

Linky half worky.

84 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:20:18pm

re: #11 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ayep. The party at large may be keeping their yaps shut, but the "base" is more than fired up about his comments. He's toast.

They may not end up with much of a choice. If they keep chasing Palin, only to have her not run, then I think Romney will scoop the field. He'll be the only one with money and organization, which means he's almost a lock to win. Primaries are national, so he could lose several deep-red states in the primary and still win the nomination.

85 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:20:47pm

Wait, Did the Stimulus Work?

Based on its economic models, the Congressional Budget Office recently estimated that between 1.4 million and 3.4 million workers who have jobs would be unemployed if the stimulus hadn’t been enacted. Three of the best-known private economic research firms — IHS Global Insight, Macroeconomic Advisers and Moody’s Economy.com — have come up with similar estimates. The average estimated effect on employment is about 2.5 million jobs.

Nariman Behravesh, IHS Global Insight’s chief economist, has a nice way of summarizing what the bill did (and, to some extent, didn’t) do: “It prevented things from getting much worse than they otherwise would have been. I think everyone would have to acknowledge that’s a good thing.”

86 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:21:55pm

re: #65 researchok

re: #74 albusteve

Is this going to turn into another union bashing thread?

Its been a while since we've had one of those....

87 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:22:02pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Probably not unless something serious happens. I used to be more skeptical about the stimulus, bailouts, healthcare reform, etc, until I figured out the economic conservatism is full of shit. None of their predictions came true about hyperinflation, economic collapse, etc. Yes, the debt is a serious concern but very few of the people complaining about it are serious.

Yep. The right wing propaganda about the economy is ludicrous, and designed simply to mislead.

88 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:22:17pm
Eighteen months later, the consensus among economists is that the stimulus worked in staving off a rerun of the 1930s. But the spending's impact was dwarfed by other crisis-fighting tools deployed by the Bush and Obama administrations, including costly efforts to stabilize crippled banks and the Fed's unconventional monetary policy.

There's the story, right there.

89 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:22:57pm

[Link: www.gao.gov...]

I'll link this but I can't read it because I left my glasses at work. And they single space.

90 freetoken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:22:59pm

Charles - your internet-foo is strong!

I just did a google search on +adam +eve +genetics for hits on the last 24 hours and the top of the list was... a Newsvine reposting of my latest Page:
[Link: smd12364.newsvine.com...]

Other web news-congealing bots are picking up on the newsvine link.

Anyway, I've been checking out the various Christian sites for how they are handling the cover story of the Christianity Today June issue.

It's not just the YECers who are upset. Orthodox priests, OECists, and the like really, really don't want to give up the idea of Adam and Eve.

What I notice too is that most of the objectors don't realize that when CT was referencing "genetics" they're not talking about old bones dug up in Africa. Many of the objecting posters are still hung up on old creationist debating points. I think many people aren't aware of how quickly the field of genetics has changed since the human genome was first fully sequenced.

91 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:23:04pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

re: #74 albusteve

Is this going to turn into another union bashing thread?

Its been a while since we've had one of those...

Not union bashing.

The context was political.

92 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:23:07pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

They may not end up with much of a choice. If they keep chasing Palin, only to have her not run, then I think Romney will scoop the field. He'll be the only one with money and organization, which means he's almost a lock to win. Primaries are national, so he could lose several deep-red states in the primary and still win the nomination.

The party's likely to do like the Dems did in '04 and accept a compromise candidate, one whose campaign message boils down to "I'm Not Obama!" I figure it'll be Romney, as the rest will too busy fighting over who truly represents the "Tea Party vote."

93 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:23:21pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

You forgot the racism.

re: #47 Charles

It doesn't matter what happens. I'll never vote for a Republican again. This morally bankrupt, anti-science, race-baiting party of luddites and lunatics has totally lost me, forever.

I can't completely agree with never voting for a Republican ever again; like the old saying goes, all politics is local. On the federal level, the GOP has been and is definitely on my shit list because of their long list of bad behavior after President Obama was elected and I'll cast a jaundiced eye towards GOP candidates for federal office.

However, I have to be a bit more pragmatic about state and local candidates, because I want to vote for the best person for the job, regardless of party; that said, some of the GOP reps/senators in the TN state house have been proposing some fucked-up shit lately

That jaundiced eye of mine towards the GOP is going to get a helluva workout...

94 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:23:59pm

re: #7 Hawaii69

I don't know why they're bothering to hide out. Most likely, those threats are coming from Americans who couldn't find australia on a map...

As Bridget Jones told us, in a dust-up over the location of Germany, they don't give you a geography test when you buy a plane ticket.

Is it all Americans? Or do Australians have this craziness as well?

95 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:24:10pm

re: #36 Charles

I'll be voting for Barack Obama.

Ditto.

96 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:25:18pm

re: #92 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The party's likely to do like the Dems did in '04 and accept a compromise candidate, one whose campaign message boils down to "I'm Not Obama!" I figure it'll be Romney, as the rest will too busy fighting over who truly represents the "Tea Party vote."

I'd agree with that. Organization and money will beat DERPing any day of the week. Anyone who wants someone other than Romney needs to get that person's campaign organized.

97 JamesWI  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:25:35pm

OT:

Over at Althouse, we see the Right twisting themselves silly to try to make Sarah Palin look smart in the whole Paul Revere story debacle.

Basic roundup - Since, when Paul Revere was captured by the British, he lied and warned the British that American soldiers were coming....and since some people rang bells along the route.....that means that Sarah's word-salad really is the truth, and it's all of us that are the idiots. Forget about all that "he was, um...firing those warning shots and.....ringing those bells...doncha know, to warn the British they weren't going to take our arms." She clearly meant to tell the real story.

Good lord. It is actually impossible for them to see how retarded this woman is. She could get up there and say "four times four equals forty four" and they'd rewrite the rules of mathematics to make it so.

98 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:25:57pm

re: #93 talon_262

I know -- never say never. But the only way I'd ever vote for the GOP again is if the party changes so much that it's nothing like the current GOP.

99 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:26:41pm

re: #92 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The party's likely to do like the Dems did in '04 and accept a compromise candidate, one whose campaign message boils down to "I'm Not Obama!" I figure it'll be Romney, as the rest will too busy fighting over who truly represents the "Tea Party vote."

That's not a bad idea except that if there's one thing the Dems are known for its bending over backwards and compromise, whereas the modern GOP.... not so much...

I wouldn't bet too hard on Mittens especially with the socon anger he seems to stir up...

Some stand in candidate like Pawlenty on the other hand...

100 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:28:01pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Probably not unless something serious happens. I used to be more skeptical about the stimulus, bailouts, healthcare reform, etc, until I figured out the economic conservatism is full of shit. None of their predictions came true about hyperinflation, economic collapse, etc. Yes, the debt is a serious concern but very few of the people complaining about it are serious.

Even so, a stimulus on the level of 2009 is out of the question. Even if it would work, the House has no incentive to pass it as they would get very little credit for having done so. The President gets the credit or blame for the economy, good or bad. Congress is just an afterthought.

101 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:28:01pm

re: #99 jamesfirecat

That's not a bad idea except that if there's one thing the Dems are known for its bending over backwards and compromise, whereas the modern GOP... not so much...

I wouldn't bet too hard on Mittens especially with the socon anger he seems to stir up...

Some stand in candidate like Pawlenty on the other hand...

I despise Pawlenty.

This is a guy who wears costumes.

102 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:28:25pm

Saleh is in Saudi Arabia for medical treatment.
What's the over/under that he stays?

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:28:28pm

re: #30 publicityStunted

No. The lion's share of home-grown, non-Al Qaeda domestic terrorism in the US has (since the 1990s) come from right-wing extremists (see abortion clinic bombings, Oklahoma City, the 1996 Atlanta Olympics, Tennessee church shootings, Dr Tiller murder, attempted attack on Tides Foundation as inspired by Glenn Beck, etc)

The only left-wing groups that have been actively violent recently, that I'm aware of, is some window breaking and acting out in the streets by Black Block and the like--restricted to big international conferences normally--and the animals rights and environmental groups, who have AFAIK restricted themselves to property damage.

There are, of course, some nasty examples from the last century, but the past thirty-forty years have been very dull in terms of left-wing domestic violence.

104 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:28:41pm

re: #97 JamesWI

OT:

Over at Althouse, we see the Right twisting themselves silly to try to make Sarah Palin look smart in the whole Paul Revere story debacle.

Basic roundup - Since, when Paul Revere was captured by the British, he lied and warned the British that American soldiers were coming...and since some people rang bells along the route...that means that Sarah's word-salad really is the truth, and it's all of us that are the idiots. Forget about all that "he was, um...firing those warning shots and...ringing those bells...doncha know, to warn the British they weren't going to take our arms." She clearly meant to tell the real story.

Good lord. It is actually impossible for them to see how retarded this woman is. She could get up there and say "four times four equals forty four" and they'd rewrite the rules of mathematics to make it so.

It's hilarious. They actually want people to believe that Sarah Palin read Revere's 1789 Massachusetts letter.

This is the woman who can't even remember what magazines she reads.

The only magazine she's ever been photographed reading is the official publication of the John Birch Society.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:29:36pm

re: #51 Ojoe

There's always the Modern Whigs LOL.

The Whigs!

How are they? I haven't heard from you about them in a bit.

106 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:29:49pm

re: #97 JamesWI

OT:

Over at Althouse, we see the Right twisting themselves silly to try to make Sarah Palin look smart in the whole Paul Revere story debacle.

Basic roundup - Since, when Paul Revere was captured by the British, he lied and warned the British that American soldiers were coming...and since some people rang bells along the route...that means that Sarah's word-salad really is the truth, and it's all of us that are the idiots. Forget about all that "he was, um...firing those warning shots and...ringing those bells...doncha know, to warn the British they weren't going to take our arms." She clearly meant to tell the real story.

Good lord. It is actually impossible for them to see how retarded this woman is. She could get up there and say "four times four equals forty four" and they'd rewrite the rules of mathematics to make it so.

MOBIUS PRETZEL!!!

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:30:04pm

re: #56 Ojoe

I think I am the only Whig in my county.

BBL

As I've told you before, you are the biggest Whig I know.

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:30:37pm

re: #68 Jeezaloo

Huh? I thought Nixon was white.

Usually purple by the time he was finished acting out.

109 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:31:17pm

re: #101 researchok

He's the guy who exploits populism like no other GOP candidate.

Whatever he thinks will put his front and center is what he'll say- naturally, with great humility.

110 dragonfire1981  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:31:50pm

"'These hurtful attacks are intended to intimidate scientists, to scare them off and stop them from participating in public discussions on climate change. They are the antithesis of democratic debate,'' Professor Chubb said.

And this is exactly the same thing going on in America, led by a group of people who claim to be more for freedom and "real" democracy than anyone else in the country.

111 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:32:23pm

re: #110 dragonfire1981

"'These hurtful attacks are intended to intimidate scientists, to scare them off and stop them from participating in public discussions on climate change. They are the antithesis of democratic debate,'' Professor Chubb said.

And this is exactly the same thing going on in America, led by a group of people who claim to be more for freedom and "real" democracy than anyone else in the country.

Well keep in mind, we're a republic not a democracy!

112 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:33:17pm

re: #99 jamesfirecat

That's not a bad idea except that if there's one thing the Dems are known for its bending over backwards and compromise, whereas the modern GOP... not so much...

I wouldn't bet too hard on Mittens especially with the socon anger he seems to stir up...

Some stand in candidate like Pawlenty on the other hand...

Pawlenty's biggest handicap is going to be to differentiate himself enough from the rest of the field, something that's difficult when he's as dreadfully dull as others have portrayed him.

113 JamesWI  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:33:26pm

re: #104 Charles

It's hilarious. They actually want people to believe that Sarah Palin read Revere's 1789 Massachusetts letter.

This is the woman who can't even remember what magazines she reads.

The only magazine she's ever been photographed reading is the official publication of the John Birch Society.

Not just that. Some people there are quoting scholarly history books about the ride, pointing out little things that soundsort of like the things Sarah mind-farted out of her mouth. Like Sarah Palin is reading books that only history professors have actually read.

114 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:33:40pm

re: #111 jamesfirecat

Well keep in mind, we're a republic not a democracy!

No one said there was gonna be math CIVICS!!!
///

115 blueraven  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:35:17pm

re: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar

China makes a hell of a solar panel. Cheap.

Yes but,

GT Solar International ( SOLR ) was popping by 6.7% to $12.83 on news that the solar industry services provider has received a $460.4 million order for its advanced sapphire crystallization furnaces from a China-based manufacturing company new to the LED (light-emitting diode) industry.

[Link: www.thestreet.com...]

116 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:35:40pm

re: #111 jamesfirecat

Well keep in mind, we're a republic not a democracy!

We had a guy on here once who kept harping on that line. I tried to get him to explain what he thought it meant, but he could barely write, so it was tricky.

117 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:36:50pm

re: #111 jamesfirecat

Well keep in mind, we're a republic not a democracy!

With me as Overlord.

118 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:39:53pm

Howard Deans sees SP as a realistic threat (lifted from The Hill):

[Link: thehill.com...]

119 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:40:02pm

re: #116 SanFranciscoZionist

We had a guy on here once who kept harping on that line. I tried to get him to explain what he thought it meant, but he could barely write, so it was tricky.

Sometimes people latch out phrases while not really understanding them.

120 Targetpractice  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:40:02pm

re: #117 Varek Raith

With me as Overlord.

"Well, I didn't vote for you."

/

121 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:40:17pm

Well, isn't this depressing.

122 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:40:42pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Howard Deans sees SP as a realistic threat (lifted from The Hill):

[Link: thehill.com...]

Loud Howard isn't worthy of being taken seriously. He's a buffoon.

123 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:41:37pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

Loud Howard isn't worthy of being taken seriously. He's a buffoon.

Then he's well-positioned to assess SP.

124 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:42:07pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Howard Deans sees SP as a realistic threat (lifted from The Hill):

[Link: thehill.com...]

Not a snowball's chance in the sun.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:42:54pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Howard Deans sees SP as a realistic threat (lifted from The Hill):

[Link: thehill.com...]

Where? In IOWA!? Or NORTH DAKOTA!!?

(Sorry, low blow. I never got the reaction to that speech.)

126 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:43:21pm

re: #115 blueraven

Yes but,

[Link: www.thestreet.com...]

Other solar panel manufacturers are also struggling in the United States. Solyndra, a Silicon Valley business, received a visit from President Obama in May and a $535 million federal loan guarantee, only to say in November that it was shutting one of its two American plants and would delay expansion of the other.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:43:39pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

Sometimes people latch out phrases while not really understanding them.

I think that was the case. I just have never gotten a really good explanation of what that line is supposed to refer to. It never seems to be in context.

128 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:43:59pm

re: #124 Varek Raith

Not a snowball's chance in the sun.

She needs to be treated as though she were Margaret Thatcher, Joan of Arc, and Dorothy Parker rolled into one.

129 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:44:03pm

re: #123 Decatur Deb

Then he's well-positioned to assess SP.

The main difference is that her "you betcha"s are not as threatening as Dean's famed primal scream. Palin's learned to channel her dim-wittery into non-threatening* forms.

*: It's only non-threatening in a physical sense. The implications of it scare the Hell out of me.

130 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:45:35pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

Where? In IOWA!? Or NORTH DAKOTA!!?

(Sorry, low blow. I never got the reaction to that speech.)

His followers had really, really, cool knit caps, though.:)

131 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:48:30pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

Where? In IOWA!? Or NORTH DAKOTA!!?

(Sorry, low blow. I never got the reaction to that speech.)

Isn't it amazing that something like that was once enough to kill a campaign?

132 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:49:36pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

The main difference is that her "you betcha"s are not as threatening as Dean's famed primal scream. Palin's learned to channel her dim-wittery into non-threatening* forms.

*: It's only non-threatening in a physical sense. The implications of it scare the Hell out of me.

Say what you will about Dean, but if he hadn't shot his mouth of we woudln't have this Well worth the trade

133 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:50:01pm

re: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

Other solar panel manufacturers are also struggling in the United States. Solyndra, a Silicon Valley business, received a visit from President Obama in May and a $535 million federal loan guarantee, only to say in November that it was shutting one of its two American plants and would delay expansion of the other.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The fruits of globalization. [grumble] I wonder if a protectionist response is appropriate to deal with China's poaching.

134 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:50:35pm

re: #132 jamesfirecat

Say what you will about Dean, but if he hadn't shot his mouth of we woudln't have this Well worth the trade

ROFL

135 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:52:49pm

re: #131 Decatur Deb

Isn't it amazing that something like that was once enough to kill a campaign?

It's still would be, from a man. Dean came across looking crazy, and couldn't jettison that image. Someone who wins a major party nomination needs to look sane. They don't have to be sane, but they can't look like they're nuts.

136 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:52:52pm

Still, doesn't beat Mike Gravel randomly throwing a rock into the Potomac.

137 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:53:40pm

BBL.

138 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:53:50pm

re: #136 Varek Raith

Still, doesn't beat Mike Gravel randomly throwing a rock into the Potomac.

The best political advertisement of all time.

Youtube Video
139 blueraven  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:54:59pm

re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Link: www.gao.gov...]

I'll link this but I can't read it because I left my glasses at work. And they single space.

That is TARP...not the stimulusre: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

Other solar panel manufacturers are also struggling in the United States. Solyndra, a Silicon Valley business, received a visit from President Obama in May and a $535 million federal loan guarantee, only to say in November that it was shutting one of its two American plants and would delay expansion of the other.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Yes, because China is subsidizing the hell out of renewable energy, while we are stuck on subsidizing dinosaurs.

From the article:

The Obama administration has been investigating whether China has violated the free trade rules of the World Trade Organization with its extensive subsidies to the manufacturers of solar panels and other clean energy products.
140 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:55:04pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

Yes. Not only that, but a shifting of our military as well. While we must cut spending, I think we can still keep up with China given we are efficient. This will require bureaucratic changes at the DoD to cut the stunning amount of bloat.

We also must more fully develop our future weaponry, as well as begin covert support to Western Regions.

As one can tell, I'm a hyper-realist on China.

141 teleskiguy  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:57:14pm

re: #138 Charles

I remember this one. So goddamned bizarre!

142 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:58:20pm

re: #141 teleskiguy

What was the point exactly? Trying to prove he is going senile?

143 teleskiguy  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 3:59:00pm

re: #142 ProLifeLiberal

What was the point exactly? Trying to prove he is going senile?

He's just a drop in the big pond, man!

144 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:00:26pm

re: #142 ProLifeLiberal

What was the point exactly? Trying to prove he is going senile?

No.
He was showing that damned river who's boss!

145 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:02:34pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

No.
He was showing that damned river who's boss!

The rock too. He pwned them all!

146 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:04:09pm

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

147 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:06:45pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

Speaking of damn rivers, we have our summer festival (the "Rose Festival") in Portland this week and next week, and part of that is getting a bunch of big Navy ships up into the city.

Except the damn river is so high, they can't even get a Cruiser under the bridges this year!

148 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:08:05pm

re: #146 Charles

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I'd click on it...... but "frank"ly I'm just Weinered out.

149 Alexzander  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:08:47pm

re: #146 Charles

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Wow looks like some serious (perhaps undercover?) research has gone into that. I look forward to the full revealing.

150 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:08:55pm

re: #140 ProLifeLiberal

Yes. Not only that, but a shifting of our military as well. While we must cut spending, I think we can still keep up with China given we are efficient. This will require bureaucratic changes at the DoD to cut the stunning amount of bloat.

We also must more fully develop our future weaponry, as well as begin covert support to Western Regions.

As one can tell, I'm a hyper-realist on China.

What it would require is major changes to the procurement process, and an reduction in it being used as a pork trough for Congress. However, making that change would be difficult, since it would entail thousands of Americans losing their jobs during the reorg.

151 jamesfirecat  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:09:57pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

What it would require is major changes to the procurement process, and an reduction in it being used as a pork trough for Congress. However, making that change would be difficult, since it would entail thousands of Americans losing their jobs during the reorg.

Well it would also reduce the deficit, which do you care about more?

152 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:10:07pm

re: #146 Charles

Well Charles I never heard of anonymiss or viletweets before. Interesting to see what the real underbelly of the twitter web is like.

*orders hazmat suit, better gloves and brain bleach*

153 Alexzander  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:10:58pm

bbl need to get out into the sun for a bit before the hockey game starts...

154 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:11:35pm

re: #146 Charles

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

More stuff from Anon. It's the same guy that wrote the last suspicious article. No way to verify the claims and it's poorly written and hard to make sense of.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:12:37pm

re: #147 windsagio

Speaking of damn rivers, we have our summer festival (the "Rose Festival") in Portland this week and next week, and part of that is getting a bunch of big Navy ships up into the city.

Except the damn river is so high, they can't even get a Cruiser under the bridges this year!

I take it the bridges can't be raised?

156 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:14:35pm

re: #146 Charles

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

If that turns out to be legit, it'll be a wonderful test for the 'watchdogs' of the 4th Estate.

157 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:16:45pm

re: #16 Charles

Lunatics are not the fringe in the GOP any more. They're the base.

And I seriously doubt that anything is going to "peak" before the election. For Pete's sake, look at the candidates! Every one of them is rushing to pander to the extreme right wing base, even Romney.

If you vote for a Republican in the next election, you'll be supporting the far right agenda -- destroying women's rights, class war, homophobia, and religious fanaticism. That's all that's left of the Republican Party.

They are certainly the most vocal and obnoxious members of the base, and it's obvious that the candidates feel they have to pander to them because they all rushed down to Ralph Reed's freakfest. I just don't know how much real power chumps like the "Weinergate" brigade have when push comes to shove. The GOP won't be rid of the nuts for the 2012 election, but maybe they will be the sane party again sometime in the next decade. Who knows?

158 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:16:49pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

I take it the bridges can't be raised?

Most of them can be raised. I suspect the problem may be the St John's bridge. It's one of my favorites.

159 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:16:58pm

re: #147 windsagio

Speaking of damn rivers, we have our summer festival (the "Rose Festival") in Portland this week and next week, and part of that is getting a bunch of big Navy ships up into the city.

Except the damn river is so high, they can't even get a Cruiser under the bridges this year!

Ask them to send a sub. Used to make good money with that kind of civilian advisin'.

160 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:17:17pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

They can, but some of them are old and can't be raised high enough apparently.

161 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:18:11pm

BTW, Are the lefties and code pink protesting the war ships in Portland this year?

162 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:18:28pm

re: #160 windsagio

[Link: www.kgw.com...]

Guess its the destroyer.

I was reading about it 'cuz my dad (ex Captain) is coming down for the Admiral's reception, and they're having to put it on a smaller boat.

163 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:19:07pm

re: #146 Charles

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

It's the Kos, so be careful. I'd advise not posting a thread based on that till its confirmed. Best not to take unneeded chances.

One cautious man's opinion.

164 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:19:51pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Haven't heard any mention yet on the news, but I'd presume they are ;)

165 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:20:12pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

It's the Kos, so be careful. I'd advise not posting a thread based on that till its confirmed. Best not to take unneeded chances.

One cautious man's opinion.

We could always ask Barrett Brown...

166 Linden Arden  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:21:16pm

Yglesias - 44 GOP Senators to filibuster Bryson as Commerce Secretary

John Bryson is Chairman of BrightSource, who are building a 1300 MegaWatt Solar Field for Pacific Gas & Electric in the Mohave Desert.

Senator Inhofe has called Bryson a job killer and radical environmentalist.

167 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:21:23pm

re: #162 windsagio

[Link: www.kgw.com...]

Guess its the destroyer.

I was reading about it 'cuz my dad (ex Captain) is coming down for the Admiral's reception, and they're having to put it on a smaller boat.

Ah, looks like the Steel Bridge is the problem

168 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:22:50pm

re: #151 jamesfirecat

Well it would also reduce the deficit, which do you care about more?

James, I've long been in favor of making those changes. I'm just saying that making them will be difficult, and then telling you why. Congress likes the current system a lot and would have to sign off on any changes.

169 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:23:02pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

That picture covers the problem lol :D

re: #166 Linden Arden


Yay filibuster! Dumbest tradition in US government! (I expect people to take that as a challenge :D)

170 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:24:30pm

re: #169 windsagio

It's a very silly bridge.

171 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:25:56pm

I'm pretty excited that I may have some Stropharia rugosoannulata popping up in the garden.

172 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:26:58pm

re: #165 Decatur Deb

We could always ask Barrett Brown...

He'd lie to get us in trouble. He hates LGF because Charles and the Lizard Army spanked him with logic and patriotism.

173 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:28:23pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty excited that I may have some Stropharia rugosoannulata popping up in the garden.

Why? They're EEEWWW looking.

174 blueraven  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:28:37pm

re: #139 blueraven

That is TARP...not the stimulusre: #126 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yes, because China is subsidizing the hell out of renewable energy, while we are stuck on subsidizing dinosaurs.

From the article:

More:

Evergreen, with help from its partners — the Wuhan municipal government and the Hubei provincial government — borrowed two-thirds of the cost of its Wuhan factory from two Chinese banks, at an interest rate that under certain conditions could go as low as 4.8 percent, Mr. El-Hillow said in August. Best of all, no principal payments or interest payments will be due until the end of the loan in 2015.

By contrast, a $21 million grant from Massachusetts covered 5 percent of the cost of the Devens factory, and the company had to borrow the rest from banks, Mr. El-Hillow said.

Banks in the United States were reluctant to provide the rest of the money even at double-digit interest rates, partly because of the financial crisis. “Therein lies the hidden advantage of being in China,” Mr. El-Hillow said.

How can we compete like this? The banks get bailed out and are making huge profits, but will not take a bet on America. They suck.

175 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:29:16pm

re: #80 Charles

I hope this doesn't burst anyone's anti-Obama bubble: Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs.

That's pretty good. The problem is we still have have 13.9 million out of work.
From the same report

In May, the number of long-term unemployed (those jobless for 27 weeks and over)increased by 361,000 to 6.2 million; their share of unemployment increased to 45.1 percent. (See table A-12.)

IMO-That's the result of administrations of both parties encouraging "free trade" (translates to they get to run high tariffs, we drop ours unilaterally giving unfair advantage to foreign manufacturers) and off shoring at a breakneck pace damn near since Nixon went to China.

The GOP is not a serious threat to the Obama administration.
The economy is.

176 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:30:04pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

See that's pretty handy. Do you have worm problems at all? I remember that being a bitch.

I've been obsessed with Miner's lettuce lately, just found out its poisonous if you eat too much >>

177 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:30:15pm

re: #173 Dark_Falcon

They taste good :D

178 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:32:28pm

re: #171 Killgore Trout

I'm pretty excited that I may have some Stropharia rugosoannulata popping up in the garden.

Let us know if you see pink elephants.

179 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:35:54pm

re: #176 windsagio

See that's pretty handy. Do you have worm problems at all? I remember that being a bitch.

I've been obsessed with Miner's lettuce lately, just found out its poisonous if you eat too much >>

Yea... that would be my lettuce of choice ..... NOT.

180 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:37:05pm

re: #175 Rightwingconspirator

The GOP is not a serious threat to the Obama administration.
The economy is.

Which is why the GOP has decided to become a serious threat to the economy, and why they're holding the debt limit hostage.

181 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:37:08pm

re: #179 Mr Pancakes

A very fun game if you live close to woods is going through and identifying all the things that are edible.

***Don't actually eat anything (especially mushrooms) unless you're really really sure.

You can eat young Oregon Grape leaves too, they're refreshing and sour :D

182 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:37:11pm

re: #174 blueraven

More:

How can we compete like this? The banks get bailed out and are making huge profits, but will not take a bet on America. They suck.

They see the loans as carrying risk, in case subsidies for photovoltaic systems get cut. They have little incentive to make a loan with such a low interest rate.

183 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:37:50pm

re: #180 goddamnedfrank

Them regaining control of the gov't is what's really important for the country, aren't you paying attention?!

184 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:39:22pm

re: #181 windsagio

A very fun game if you live close to woods is going through and identifying all the things that are edible.

***Don't actually eat anything (especially mushrooms) unless you're really really sure.

You can eat young Oregon Grape leaves too, they're refreshing and sour :D

Yea...... I trust Vons has done the foraging for me.

185 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:39:47pm

re: #180 goddamnedfrank

Sadly that has been a tactic used for quite some time now. The Dems did some of that during the recession that ended Bush 41. And that was not the first instance either. It's been party over country in DC since the end of the korean hostilities.

186 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:39:52pm

re: #174 blueraven

But now the company is closing its main American factory, laying off the 800 workers by the end of March and shifting production to a joint venture with a Chinese company in central China. Evergreen cited the much higher government support available in China.

But, but....Wal Mart is good for America! Paying $5 for a t-shirt made in China is good for Americans. Imagine if we had to pay $9 for a t-shirt, huh? Huh?

/sigh

187 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:40:13pm

re: #185 Rightwingconspirator

Sadly that has been a tactic used for quite some time now. The Dems did some of that during the recession that ended Bush 41. And that was not the first instance either. It's been party over country in DC since the end of the korean hostilities.

I should add the GOP has escalated this time-hugely.

188 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:40:58pm

re: #184 Mr Pancakes

When the apocalypse comes and I'm living a sumptuous life on fiddleheads and wild berries, you'll regret that!

It's better than heirloom seeds ><

189 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:43:03pm

re: #186 funky chicken

Democrats, campaign on anti-free trade please. It hasn't worked for the American Worker, or others. The illegal immigrant situation has been exacerbated by the fact that poor farmers in Mexico couldn't keep up with American farming.

190 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:44:10pm

re: #189 ProLifeLiberal

The main problem with free trade is that it assumes other places (not even other countries sadly) will actually do things to watch out for the wellbeing of their workers.

191 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:45:29pm

re: #186 funky chicken

But, but...Wal Mart is good for America! Paying $5 for a t-shirt made in China is good for Americans. Imagine if we had to pay $9 for a t-shirt, huh? Huh?

/sigh

I agree...... but do the math on DVD players.

192 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:46:04pm

re: #189 ProLifeLiberal

Democrats, campaign on anti-free trade please. It hasn't worked for the American Worker, or others. The illegal immigrant situation has been exacerbated by the fact that poor farmers in Mexico couldn't keep up with American farming.

US subsidies to US farmers don't help Mexico much either. Nor farmers in other countries.

193 blueraven  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:46:23pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

They see the loans as carrying risk, in case subsidies for photovoltaic systems get cut. They have little incentive to make a loan with such a low interest rate.

Well their incentive should be "Make work for Americans"
They could use a little good PR right now. Instead of shelling out millions to PR firms, they could invest in the country that just bailed their ass out.

Instead, huge bonuses for CEOs and upper management, record profits. Meanwhile companies flee and houses are foreclosed.

It's perverse.

194 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:48:11pm

re: #189 ProLifeLiberal

Democrats, campaign on anti-free trade please. It hasn't worked for the American Worker, or others. The illegal immigrant situation has been exacerbated by the fact that poor farmers in Mexico couldn't keep up with American farming.

That still wouldn't be a major problem if we'd dump the enethol subsidies.

BBL

195 prairiefire  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:48:19pm

re: #193 blueraven

It's not American.

196 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:49:23pm

re: #192 wrenchwench

Doesn't help us either. It's essentially us giving money to large landowners rather than small farmers (those who remain) that actually need it. Reforms are needed.

And don't start on the fact that we are not diverse in our subsidization.

197 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:49:47pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

There's other issues as well.

198 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:49:55pm

re: #178 Mr Pancakes

Let us know if you see pink elephants.

Yeah, they make me a little nervous. I'll save a sample when I eat them in case I have to call the emergency room afterward.

199 Varek Raith  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:50:30pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Yeah, they make me a little nervous. I'll save a sample when I eat them in case I have to call the emergency room afterward.

That kind of thinking should lead one to not eat something.
;)

200 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:52:57pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Yeah, they make me a little nervous. I'll save a sample when I eat them in case I have to call the emergency room afterward.

Pink elephants good......... dying bad Killgore.

201 prairiefire  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:53:31pm

Alexander McQueen exhibit at the Met:[Link: blog.metmuseum.org...]

202 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:53:37pm

re: #199 Varek Raith

You, sir, lack a sense of adventure.

203 blueraven  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:54:20pm

re: #195 prairiefire

It's not American.

Where are the jobs, Mr Boehner? Why not tackle this, republican congress? Make the banks invest. Just do it!

204 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:54:38pm

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
-Dick Cheney 2002

"I worship the ground that Paul Ryan walks on."
-Dick Cheney 2011

205 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:55:38pm

re: #202 windsagio

You, sir, lack a sense of adventure.

That was a Steve Irwin quote before jumping in the water no?

206 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:56:33pm

re: #204 goddamnedfrank

"Reagan proved deficits don't matter."
-Dick Cheney 2002

"I worship the ground that Paul Ryan walks on."
-Dick Cheney 2011

Hot Air, Instapundit and PJM are still praising Ryan's epic vision of a future America without Medicare. Amazingly stupid.

207 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:56:34pm

re: #205 Mr Pancakes

Touche', sir... touche'.

208 Linden Arden  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:56:57pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

They see the loans as carrying risk, in case subsidies for photovoltaic systems get cut. They have little incentive to make a loan with such a low interest rate.

Actually, bank spreads are very good today. Borrow at .25% and loan at 4-5% to second tier businesses. There are exceptions - Microsoft just borrowed $5 billion (iirc) and the bid won at .75% (again, from memory). So if you are AAA you can get cheap money.

209 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:58:04pm

re: #208 Linden Arden

What was MS borrowing money for? The Skype deal?

210 Interesting Times  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:58:57pm

re: #206 Killgore Trout

Hot Air, Instapundit and PJM are still praising Ryan's epic vision of a future America without Medicare. Amazingly stupid.

Mainstream media coverage of Paul Ryan and his budget has been nauseatingly fawning and obsequious. The shots of him running up the Capitol Hill stairs like some kind of dashing, medicare-slashing hero are particularly puke-worthy.

211 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 4:59:01pm

Also, For next time you complain about traffic

(DRB, best of the link aggregators)

212 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:01:15pm

re: #146 Charles

Don't know yet whether this is completely legit, but the latest news on the smear attack against Anthony Weiner is pretty interesting -- there may be a new "Wrecking Crew" pulling off political dirty tricks:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

One of the nics in the proposed Infowar net is quite interesting to chase down. Google arguments for 'jihadihunter', 'Rev Bill Turner', or 'First American Patriot Church' will take you to an interesting part of Cloud Cukoo Land. I would only approach using caches or other sanitary methods.

213 Alexzander  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:01:17pm

re: #188 windsagio

When the apocalypse comes and I'm living a sumptuous life on fiddleheads and wild berries, you'll regret that!

It's better than heirloom seeds ><

I've been eating a lot of local fiddleheads and mushrooms lately. I looked into the local berries and there are way too many that are potentially poisonous.

214 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:04:25pm

re: #213 Alexzander

Learned that lesson young, my (disabled) brother had a few incidents where he would eat Yew berries, and my mom had to give him ipecac.

For some reason she then left him in the back of a pickup with us. I guess we all learned a lesson tho :D


~~~

Seriously, If you stick to ones you know, you're alright. Huckleberry, Thimbleberry, Salmonberry, Salal, and Oregon Grape are the big ones. (Oregon grape is goddamn sour tho, be warned)

We have some wild strawberries and blackberries too in the PNW, which is nice in season.

If you can't tell this is a subject I really really love :D

215 Linden Arden  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:05:18pm

re: #209 windsagio

What was MS borrowing money for? The Skype deal?

Reuters (Sep 2010)

Microsoft sold $1 billion of the three-year notes at a coupon of 0.875 percent, or 25 basis points over comparable Treasuries, according to a source familiar with the offering. That's the lowest level in U.S. data going back to 1970 compiled by Thomson Reuters/IFR.

Could have been. They have over $30 billion cash anyway. I think they were borrowing because they could pay .875%.

Investors are tying trillions up at record low yields. Tells me inflation is almost dead.

216 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:06:14pm

re: #213 Alexzander

I've been eating a lot of local fiddleheads and mushrooms lately. I looked into the local berries and there are way too many that are potentially poisonous.

Have you tried smoking them?

217 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:06:52pm

re: #216 b_sharp

berries? Seems pretty hard for the return :D

218 Linden Arden  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:07:17pm

Stanley Cup finals time!

Vancouver won game one 1-0 with the only goal scored with 18 seconds left. The place went nuts.

219 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:07:41pm

re: #214 windsagio

The blackberries alone are almost worth all that rain.

220 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:07:53pm

re: #217 windsagio

berries? Seems pretty hard for the return :D

Never know til you try.

221 abolitionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:08:36pm

re: #211 windsagio

Also, For next time you complain about traffic

(DRB, best of the link aggregators)

Lower speed limit on this highway is enforced the hard way.

222 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:08:42pm

re: #193 blueraven

It was bipartisan stupidity:

Devens, as the site of a former military base, is a designated enterprise zone eligible for state financial support.

State Senator Jamie Eldridge, a Democrat whose district includes Devens, said he was initially excited for Evergreen to come to his district, but even before the announced loss of 800 jobs, he had come to oppose such large corporate assistance.

“I think there’s been a lot of hurt feelings over these subsidies to companies, while a lot of communities around the former base have not seen development money,” he said.

Michael McCarthy, a spokesman for Evergreen, said the company had already met 80 percent of the grant’s job creation target by employing up to 800 factory workers since 2008 and should owe little money to the state. Evergreen also retains about 100 research and administrative jobs in Massachusetts.

The company also received about $22 million in tax credits, and it will discuss those with Massachusetts, he said.

sigh

223 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:09:03pm

re: #218 Linden Arden

Stanley Cup finals time!

Vancouver won game one 1-0 with the only goal scored with 18 seconds left. The place went nuts.

MUTTER MUTTER MUTTER

/Nashvillian and casual Preds fan ;-P

224 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:09:05pm

re: #219 wrenchwench

The blackberries alone are almost worth all that rain.

Have you tried saskatoon berries?

225 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:10:31pm

re: #212 Decatur Deb

One of the nics in the proposed Infowar net is quite interesting to chase down. Google arguments for 'jihadihunter', 'Rev Bill Turner', or 'First American Patriot Church' will take you to an interesting part of Cloud Cukoo Land. I would only approach using caches or other sanitary methods.

I've been seeing this "jihadihunter" person's posts on Twitter for quite a while -- he's an outright racist and anti-Muslim lunatic. He posts some of the most disgusting stuff on #tcot.

226 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:10:33pm

Are my fellow photographers online? Just ordering this one to upgrade macro sharpness...
60mm Macro

227 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:11:15pm

Why I like living in the South:

Harris Teeter
All Natural Ice Cream
Must Buy 2 To Get 3 Free

This is a great country

228 Alexzander  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:12:50pm

re: #218 Linden Arden

Stanley Cup finals time!

Vancouver won game one 1-0 with the only goal scored with 18 seconds left. The place went nuts.

I'm going to be watching the game.. hopefully its over before my volunteer shift begins.

229 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:14:24pm

re: #225 Charles

I've been seeing this "jihadihunter" person's posts on Twitter for quite a while -- he's an outright racist and anti-Muslim lunatic. He posts some of the most disgusting stuff on #tcot.

Seems to use a lot of blog radio, and gets mirrored around. Some of his buddies go far into the crazy: "Idaho is to be the first Chinese State under Project 60".

230 Ben G. Hazi  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:16:03pm

re: #229 Decatur Deb

Seems to use a lot of blog radio, and gets mirrored around. Some of his buddies go far into the crazy: "Idaho is to be the first Chinese State under Project 60".


WTF is that all about?

231 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:17:06pm

re: #219 wrenchwench

Interestingly, its kind of trendy around here to hate on the non-native blackberries, since they're so aggressive. I say screw it, they're well worth the effort :D

re: #224 b_sharp

THIS IS AMERICA DAGUMMIT! We call 'em Juneberries!

232 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:17:29pm

re: #229 Decatur Deb

Seems to use a lot of blog radio, and gets mirrored around. Some of his buddies go far into the crazy: "Idaho is to be the first Chinese State under Project 60".

We ought to have BTR channel, like LGF Pages. You know, LGF Radio

Different people willing to host programs.

Way smarter people here than pretty much just about any other site.

233 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:17:47pm

re: #227 researchok

Makes up for all the hurricanes and tornados I guess :p

234 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:18:29pm

re: #233 windsagio

Makes up for all the hurricanes and tornados I guess :p

Gets you through the bad weather.

235 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:18:48pm

re: #230 talon_262

WTF is that all about?

Doubt I could do it justice. If you have the inclination, just Google some of the terms. Don't do it when you're tired, drunk or depressed.

236 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:20:05pm

re: #232 researchok

Big ad revenue potential, I'll bet.

237 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:22:29pm

re: #231 windsagio

Interestingly, its kind of trendy around here to hate on the non-native blackberries, since they're so aggressive. I say screw it, they're well worth the effort :D

re: #224 b_sharp

THIS IS AMERICA DAGUMMIT! We call 'em Juneberries!

No, I meant a real saskatoon berry. From saskatoon bushes that have survived -30C, 6 month long winters.

238 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:23:27pm

re: #232 researchok

We ought to have BTR channel, like LGF Pages. You know, LGF Radio

Different people willing to host programs.

Way smarter people here than pretty much just about any other site.

I want to do the 'Advice to the Lovelorn' show. My voice is much like Isaac Hayes', for an old Irishman.

239 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:23:53pm

re: #237 b_sharp

I am actually somewhat mollified by finding out the town is named after the tree, and not vice-versa.

(Yay prejudice!)

240 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:24:05pm

re: #229 Decatur Deb

Seems to use a lot of blog radio, and gets mirrored around. Some of his buddies go far into the crazy: "Idaho is to be the first Chinese State under Project 60".

W O W

McChord/Lewis

It would be ... difficult for China to make Idaho a part of her territory.

241 Mr Pancakes  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:24:50pm

re: #238 Decatur Deb

I want to do the 'Advice to the Lovelorn' show. My voice is much like Isaac Hayes', for an old Irishman.

Let's here you say "He's still a bad mother…Shut your mouth!"

242 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:24:58pm

re: #238 Decatur Deb

I want to do the 'Advice to the Lovelorn' show. My voice is much like Isaac Hayes', for an old Irishman.

I'll host the 'Ignorance is Bliss' segment.

243 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:26:05pm

re: #240 funky chicken

Not to mention PSNS ><

244 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:26:56pm

re: #238 Decatur Deb

I want to do the 'Advice to the Lovelorn' show. My voice is much like Isaac Hayes', for an old Irishman.

Imagine, LGF Radio 24/7

All kinds of ideas, shows- US politics, world politics, left, right, music, tech stuff, ad infinitum.

245 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:28:26pm

re: #244 researchok

Imagine, LGF Radio 24/7

All kinds of ideas, shows- US politics, world politics, left, right, music, tech stuff, ad infinitum.

I just wonder who we could possibly get to do the music segment.
///

246 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:28:47pm

I'd do a click and clack type show with winds, james or b sharp.

Only ground rule is pat down for weapons.
/

247 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:29:34pm

re: #239 windsagio

I am actually somewhat mollified by finding out the town is named after the tree, and not vice-versa.

(Yay prejudice!)

The mind works in mysterious ways

248 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:30:30pm

re: #246 researchok

I'll have you know that all my weapons have already been confiscated by the police, so you're safe!

249 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:31:21pm

re: #248 windsagio

I'll have you know that all my weapons have already been confiscated by the police, so you're safe!

I can't yell you how good knowing that makes me feel.

250 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:32:06pm

re: #247 researchok

There's actually a weird thing on wikipedia on that subject, (warning: nuttiness ahead). People from Canada, and especially BC have this weird need to puff themselves and move their elements of pages to the top of the entry.

I'm presuming its low self-esteem from being, well, Canada ;)

251 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:33:15pm

Actually, I'm serious- an LGF radio channel, all kinds of topics, etc.

You know it will get traffic.

Imagine, CJ getting paid by the stalkers for one thing.

Poetic justice, I say.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:34:02pm

re: #227 researchok

Why I like living in the South:

This is a great country

Used to be a hand-lettered sign on one of the unpaved turn-offs from the freeway in Marin that said "99-cent Lattes".

253 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:34:05pm

re: #250 windsagio

There's actually a weird thing on wikipedia on that subject, (warning: nuttiness ahead). People from Canada, and especially BC have this weird need to puff themselves and move their elements of pages to the top of the entry.

I'm presuming its low self-esteem from being, well, Canada ;)

San Francisco North?

254 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:34:26pm

re: #250 windsagio

There's actually a weird thing on wikipedia on that subject, (warning: nuttiness ahead). People from Canada, and especially BC have this weird need to puff themselves and move their elements of pages to the top of the entry.

I'm presuming its low self-esteem from being, well, Canada ;)

You be lookin' for a bootin'.

255 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:35:19pm

re: #253 researchok

Vancouver is actually kind of the Jersey shore of the West Coast >>

re: #254 b_sharp

Its too quiet today anyways, I'm lookin' for some action!!!

256 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:35:34pm

re: #251 researchok

As in revenue from hits

257 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:37:20pm

re: #255 windsagio

Vancouver is actually kind of the Jersey shore of the West Coast >>

re: #254 b_sharp

Its too quiet today anyways, I'm lookin' for some action!!!

I don't care. I will not call you Snookie.

//

258 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:37:22pm

re: #256 researchok

That's kind of the dirty underbelly of all blogging tho', controversy and outrageousness gets more hits which generates more ad revenue, so people are inclined to be crazy and angry

259 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:37:54pm

re: #251 researchok

I nominate my frogs for the overnight shift.

260 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:37:58pm

re: #258 windsagio

That's kind of the dirty underbelly of all blogging tho', controversy and outrageousness gets more hits which generates more ad revenue, so people are inclined to be crazy and angry

They call that the Rush strtegy

261 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:38:34pm

re: #259 Killgore Trout

I nominate my frogs for the overnight shift.

There is a whole world of frog lovers out there....

262 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:39:22pm

re: #243 windsagio

Not to mention PSNS ><

Puget Sound and Ft. Lewis won't let me into their sites without a login. Maybe the black helicopter internet snoops told them my husband's in the Air Force.//

It must be odd to be a conspiracy theorist.

Oh--I'll do the military wife show. It'll be boring because my husband never tells me the good stuff. I have to see things (like the Kashmiri story) on MSNBC and ask him if he heard about it. I guess I can talk about my dogs.

263 Linden Arden  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:39:46pm

Bruin slapshot knocks mask off Canuck goalie.

That shot would be worse than a MLB fastball.

264 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:39:55pm

There could be various 'city hosts'

That could drive traffic here, too.

265 wrenchwench  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:40:54pm

re: #224 b_sharp

Have you tried saskatoon berries?

re: #237 b_sharp

No, I meant a real saskatoon berry. From saskatoon bushes that have survived -30C, 6 month long winters.

Never even heard of them. I'll bet they're sweet, and only available for three weeks a year.

266 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:41:51pm

re: #264 researchok

WUB and his partner actually hosted an internet radio rock show for a little while.

267 researchok  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:42:46pm

re: #266 windsagio

WUB and his partner actually hosted an internet radio rock show for a little while.

OK, so we make them host the Chamber Music segemnt.
//

Seriously, I didn't know that. Very cool

268 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:46:21pm

Well, off to study. Enjoy the rest of the evening.

269 windsagio  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 5:50:30pm

re: #262 funky chicken

You're totally on the terrorist watchlist, aren't you?!

270 b_Snark  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 6:47:03pm

re: #265 wrenchwench

re: #237 b_sharp

Never even heard of them. I'll bet they're sweet, and only available for three weeks a year.

Pretty close.

271 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 7:10:41pm

re: #16 Charles

Youtube Video

The lunatic is on the grass.
Pink Floyd.

272 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 7:14:33pm

re: #259 Killgore Trout

I nominate my frogs for the overnight shift.

Seconded!

273 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 7:21:24pm

re: #193 blueraven

I think the huge bonuses come from accounting fraud.

Link

274 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 7:23:58pm

From the link:

Venerable investment banks like Goldman Sachs packaged the trashiest securities into collateralized debt obligations at the behest of hedge fund managers--who were allowed to choose the most toxic of the toxic waste—then sold the CDOs on to their own customers and allowed the hedge funds to bet against them. More fraud.
Indeed, the largest financial institutions were run by their management as what my colleague Bill Black calls “control frauds”. That is, the banks used accounting fraud to manufacture fake profits so that they could pay huge bonuses to top management. The latest data out on Wall Street bonuses show that these institutions are still run as control frauds, with another record year of bonuses paid by cooking the books. The fraud continues unabated.

275 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 7:24:22pm

BBL

276 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 8:10:00pm

As an interesting follow up:

Report outlines worst-case climate damage.

A new report on the risk of climate change to Australia's coasts predicts sea level rises could claim thousands of buildings and significant infrastructure by the end of the century.

The report, titled Risk to Coastal Settlements and Communities, was commissioned by the Federal Government and assesses the potential damage caused by a worst-case scenario sea level rise of 1.1 metres within 90 years.

It comes as the nation's climate scientists vow to continue their research, despite a growing campaign of death threats against them.

The report identifies $226 billion worth of assets at risk of erosion or being wiped out.

It found up to 274,000 homes are at risk of inundation and erosion along with over 8,000 commercial buildings, and up to 35,000 kilometres of roads and rail around the country.

It warns any future developments in coastal areas must take account of potential sea level rises.

The report also warns climate change will increase the frequency and severity of natural disasters, which currently cost around $1 billion a year.

Federal Climate Change Minister Greg Combet says the research is designed to help people adapt.

"We've got to do the work to understand what the potential risks are so we can prepare for it," he said.

"One thing obviously we have to do is cut our pollution in partnership with other nations internationally, but we've also got to make sure that we adapt to the potential consequences of climate change and that's what this report is intended to understand."

He says 85 per cent of Australia's infrastructure is along the coast line.

"The sea level rise of up to 1.1 metre, which is at the high end of the scenarios that the scientists are suggesting, would have a devastating impact, as much as $266 billion worth of potential damage and loss," he said.

Meanwhile, thousands of people have taken to the streets across Australia to rally in favour of putting a price on carbon.

Unions have joined with groups, including the Climate Institute and Greenpeace, in a campaign to "Say Yes" to cutting pollution and taking action on climate change.

More...

277 Querent  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 9:05:50pm

re: #176 windsagio


I've been obsessed with Miner's lettuce lately, just found out its poisonous if you eat too much >>

Really?

Because i'm trying to grow it...

278 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 4, 2011 9:29:04pm

re: #269 windsagio

You're totally on the terrorist watchlist, aren't you?!

Oh yeah. Wild and crazy :-).


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