Right Wing Xenophobia Goes Wild in Alabama

New law requires arrest of anyone without documentation
US News • Views: 50,342

The new anti-immigration law just signed by Alabama’s Republican governor Robert Bentley explicitly violates the Bill of Rights’s provisions against unreasonable search and seizure, by requiring police to arrest anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally if they can’t produce documentation — when stopped for any reason: Alabama governor signs nation’s toughest immigration law.

(Reuters) - Republican Governor Robert Bentley on Thursday signed into law a crackdown on illegal immigration in Alabama that both supporters and critics consider the toughest in the nation.

Under the new measure, police must detain someone they suspect of being in the country illegally if the person cannot produce proper documentation when stopped for any reason.

It also will be a crime to knowingly transport or harbor someone who is in the country illegally. The law imposes penalties on businesses that knowingly employ someone without legal resident status. A company’s business license could be suspended or revoked.

That’s right — in Alabama, you may now end up in jail if you’re not carrying your papers, whether or not you’ve done anything wrong.

(h/t: Mr. Hammer.)

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235 comments
1 darthstar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:45:22am

It worked for Arizona...not.

2 Kragar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:45:43am

"to arrest anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally if they can’t produce documentation"

And what are the criteria for that suspicion? "You don't look like you're from around here, boy?"

3 Randall Gross  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:45:45am

Another state off my travel radar. If we do have to pass through, we won't be stopping.

4 darthstar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:46:07am

Fortunately, Alabama doesn't have a history of racial inequality so this shouldn't pose a problem.
//

5 3CPO  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:46:09am

Holy crap.

6 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:49:45am

Quick show of hands.
How many people here think that individuals in law enforcement in certain parts of the state won't be using this to round up and harass non-whites?

7 Interesting Times  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:49:56am

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And what are the criteria for that suspicion?

They'll just borrow these and use them as a guide.

8 fire at night  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:50:53am

Soooo... AL is the new AZ?

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:51:34am

And remember... the South has no particular problem with racism. I get really tired of people saying that.

10 darthstar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:54:05am

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

And remember... the South has no particular problem with racism. I get really tired of people saying that.

Of course not...they're really pretty fucking good at it if you ask me!

11 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:55:14am

re: #3 Thanos

Another state off my travel radar. If we do have to pass through, we won't be stopping.

Damn straight.

12 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:56:26am
requiring police to arrest anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally if they can’t produce documentation — when stopped for any reason:

Nah, I can't see anything going wrong here...

13 theheat  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:56:57am

That makes a nice bookend to being expected to sit on your couch and smile if a SWAT team busts through your door, even by mistake.

We're being herded and treated like cattle, anymore.

14 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:57:02am

re: #6 RadicalModerate

Quick show of hands.
How many people here think that individuals in law enforcement in certain parts of the state won't be using this to round up and harass non-whites?

But, RM, when you point out the centuries old, deep rooted history of violent racism in the South, certain white defenders of the South here will have their feelings hurt.

15 Kronocide  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:57:15am

My only regret about the Age of Information is that propaganda, superstition, and fundamentalism can now spread faster than ever before.

16 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:57:15am

Rick Santorum: The Idea Of Climate Change Is A Liberal Conspiracy

I believe the earth gets warmer and I also believe the earth gets cooler, and I think history points out that it does that and that the idea that man, through the production of CO2 -- which is a trace gas in the atmosphere, and the manmade part of that trace gas is itself a trace gas -- is somehow responsible for climate change is, I think, just patently absurd.

Stupid jackass.

17 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:57:24am
requiring police to arrest anyone they suspect of being in the country illegally if they can’t produce documentation — when stopped for any reason:

So, this is what perfect state's rights, limited government looks like?

18 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:57:49am

Small government, ftw.

19 theheat  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:58:20am

re: #16 Varek Raith

To say that's the reason he's a stupid jackass really discredits all the other equally important reasons he's a stupid jackass.

20 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:58:21am

re: #17 Bulworth

So, this is what perfect state's rights, limited government looks like?

It's also what an efficient one looks like, considering the added burdens of dealing with immigration and the feds will place on local and country courts.

21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:59:03am

re: #17 Bulworth

So, this is what perfect state's rights, limited government looks like?

It is. States rights is just conservative shorthand for "harassing the hell out of minorities".

22 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:59:07am

re: #16 Varek Raith

Rick Santorum: The Idea Of Climate Change Is A Liberal Conspiracy

Stupid jackass.

Oh yeah... Santorum is a magnificent douche.

Sadly though, I don't think his brand of crazy is even crazy enough for the GOP base.

23 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:59:10am
Alabama's law is unique in requiring public schools to determine, by review of birth certificates or sworn affidavits, the legal residency status of students.

The Department of Education already said you can't do that.

24 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 10:59:14am

re: #16 Varek Raith

Rick Santorum: The Idea Of Climate Change Is A Liberal Conspiracy

Stupid jackass.

How frothy of him. =P

25 darthstar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:00:03am

re: #16 Varek Raith

Rick Santorum: The Idea Of Climate Change Is A Liberal Conspiracy

Stupid jackass.

Strap his ass to a small chunk of ice floating in the North Atlantic and tell him he has three months to consider his position on Global warming again.

26 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:00:09am

This is, most of all, an enormous waste of taxpayer money.

This law will almost certainly be struck down in court.

And the state of Alabama will spend millions defending it.

How does this make sense? Why pass laws that you know are almost certainly going to get ruled unconstitutional?

27 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:00:28am

re: #23 wrenchwench

The Department of Education already said you can't do that.



Pfft. What the hell would the feds know about immigration?

28 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:01:14am

This appears to be the bill, L. 2011, S256, which is similar to another bill, S163 - but S163 lacks the detain provisions.

I really wish that the media outlets would include the bill number so that we can see what exactly was done.

29 theheat  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:01:43am

re: #26 Obdicut

Death by a million paper cuts. And they'll spend millions pushing anti-Constitutional bullshit wherever and whenever they can, because each little brief victory gives their issues legs, if only for awhile.

30 andydp  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:03:28am

As the son if Italian immigrants, I get the very real feeling that if my WWII US Army Veteran dad was stopped either in AL or AZ he would be subjected to this law because of his accent. I should also mention my mom had a strong accent all of her life even after living here for 60+ years. I can just imagine them being pulled over in a traffic stop.

I'm certain the law will be overruled on Constitutional grounds because of the lack of "probable cause". Alabama: put it into effect and we'll see how that works out for you. I'm sure some Spanish Speaking Groups will remember your efforts in this matter say around November 2012.

31 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:04:00am

re: #26 Obdicut

This is, most of all, an enormous waste of taxpayer money.

This law will almost certainly be struck down in court.

And the state of Alabama will spend millions defending it.

How does this make sense? Why pass laws that you know are almost certainly going to get ruled unconstitutional?


This is exactly the sort of thing to spread anti-government sentiment and feed the propaganda. In many ways losing in Federal court is a bigger win for the politicians behind this and the "south will rise again crowd" than it is for the bill to pass. They get to play heroic Southern martyr for the right of the State to be violently and oppressively racist. History repeats yet again.

You know... States rights... to fire up the base about the evil federal government enforcing the constitution... all that stuff that goes way back in the South.

32 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:05:25am

re: #26 Obdicut

This is, most of all, an enormous waste of taxpayer money.

This law will almost certainly be struck down in court.

And the state of Alabama will spend millions defending it.

How does this make sense? Why pass laws that you know are almost certainly going to get ruled unconstitutional?

It's a business.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach’s illegal immigration cases continue to make their way through the nation’s judicial system.

This week, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in two cases that involved Kobach’s work as an attorney.

The court refused to review a California Supreme Court ruling that upheld a state law giving California high school graduates reduced in-state tuition at state schools, regardless of their immigration status. The court did not give a reasons for its action.

Kobach, a Republican, was the lead attorney for the plaintiffs suing to have the law overturned.

Eleven other states, including Kansas, grant similar benefits to illegal immigrants. The others are: Illinois, Maryland, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Texas, Utah, Washington and Wisconsin.

Kobach said Tuesday the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court refused to consider the case did not mean that it supports the California law.

[...]

I didn't expect to find such a current reference!

33 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:05:31am

They came for th Mexicans, but I wasn't a Mexican.

Then they came for the Yankees...Oh Shit.

34 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:05:56am

re: #26 Obdicut

If this law is constructed the way most are - the parts that are deemed unconstitutional will be stricken, but the rest will remain. So, they pass the whole thing, and figure that most will be upheld. The stop and detain will most likely be found as violative of the US and Alabama Constitutions (art. 1, sec. 5):

Unreasonable search and seizure; search warrants.

That the people shall be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and possessions from unreasonable seizure or searches, and that no warrants shall issue to search any place or to seize any person or thing without probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation.

Heck, this would also violate an Alabama constitutional provision that requires the state to encourage immigration.

35 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:07:56am

re: #28 lawhawk

This appears to be the bill, L. 2011, S256, which is similar to another bill, S163 - but S163 lacks the detain provisions.

I really wish that the media outlets would include the bill number so that we can see what exactly was done.

Thanks, I was looking too.

My NM driver's license would be inadequate ID to them.

36 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:08:17am

re: #33 Decatur Deb

They came for th Mexicans, but I wasn't a Mexican.

Then they came for the Yankees...Oh Shit.

They tried that once, back in 1860. Yankee's still remember how to handle that.

37 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:09:25am

re: #35 wrenchwench

Actually, your NM license would be sufficient:

(10) LAWFUL PRESENCE or LAWFULLY PRESENT. A person is presumed to have lawful presence and not to be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States or in the State of Alabama. A person shall be regarded as an alien unlawfully present in the United States if the person's unlawful immigration status has been verified by the federal government pursuant to 8 U.S.C. § 1373(c) or if the person does not possess proof of self-identification in any of the following forms:

a. A valid, unexpired Alabama driver's license.

b. A valid, unexpired Alabama nondriver identification card.

c. A valid tribal enrollment card or other form of tribal identification.

d. Any valid United States federal, state, or local government issued identification document if issued by an entity that requires proof of lawful presence in the United States before issuance.

e. A foreign passport with a United States Visa.

f. A foreign passport issued by a visa waiver country with the corresponding entry stamp and duration of stay annotation or an I-94W form.

38 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:10:25am

re: #33 Decatur Deb

They came for th Mexicans, but I wasn't a Mexican.

Then they came for the Yankees...Oh Shit.

I am a Mexican. Clearly they're not doing their job since I'm still here.

Oh, wait. My family's been here since before Texas was part of the US, and since the US was still a British colony. That means I don't have to go anywhere. Just let them try to stop me in Alabama.

39 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:11:17am

re: #37 lawhawk

Nope. NM does not require proof of lawful residence. Despite the efforts of our new Republican governor, we still issue licenses to illegal residents.

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:11:41am

ALABAMA NAHTZEES YEE HAW ROOTIN TOOTIN

41 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:13:34am

re: #38 Lidane

I am a Mexican. Clearly they're not doing their job since I'm still here.

Oh, wait. My family's been here since before Texas was part of the US, and since the US was still a British colony. That means I don't have to go anywhere. Just let them try to stop me in Alabama.

They won't stop you if you're heading to a Perdue or Koch chicken plant. Trust me.

42 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:14:04am

re: #36 wlewisiii

They tried that once, back in 1860. Yankee's still remember how to handle that.

My choice would have been the 1927 Yankees

[Link: bleacherreport.com...]

43 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:14:50am

re: #39 wrenchwench

Didn't know that about the NM license provisions. Yeah, that's yet another problem with the law.

44 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:14:54am

re: #41 Decatur Deb

They won't stop you if you're heading to a Perdue or Koch chicken plant. Trust me.

What if I was heading there to run the plant? You know, in management.

Heh.

45 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:15:27am

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

And remember... the South has no particular problem with racism. I get really tired of people saying that.

Many of them have black friends...

46 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:15:41am

re: #39 wrenchwench

Nope. NM does not require proof of lawful residence. Despite the efforts of our new Republican governor, we still issue licenses to illegal residents.

There are very few states that require proof of lawful residence to issue drivers' licenses/IDs, so the Alabama cops could toss you in jail for having a valid out-of-state ID if you don't look American enough to them.

47 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:17:39am

re: #46 RadicalModerate

There are very few states that require proof of lawful residence to issue drivers' licenses/IDs, so the Alabama cops could toss you in jail for having a valid out-of-state ID if you don't look American enough to them.

The Real ID Act whittled that down to two or three, IIRC. Maybe five.

48 jaunte  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:18:19am

re: #20 Lidane

It's also what an efficient one looks like, considering the added burdens of dealing with immigration and the feds will place on local and country courts.

Alabama may have to combine the functions of judge, jury and executioner to save taxpayer dollars.
//

49 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:18:39am

re: #43 lawhawk

Didn't know that about the NM license provisions. Yeah, that's yet another problem with the law.

Hey Lawhawk.. This part of law..
company’s business license could be suspended or revoked.
Didn't SCOTUS uphold that a few weeks ago? If you can issue then you can revoke?
So that part of the law can't be overturned by a lower court.. Right?

50 Kragar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:18:59am

re: #48 jaunte

Alabama may have to combine the functions of judge, jury and executioner to save taxpayer dollars.
//

Dredd was a Southerner?

51 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:19:02am

Breitbart's butthurt.....
Anthony Weiner's Genitalia Photo Puts Sirius XM in Sticky Situation

"I'm not sure they're allowed to say we're not going to do anything and say that there are no cameras in here, and then there are cameras in there," Breitbart said to the KFI hosts. "I mean, maybe you are allowed to lie to people and breach their confidence."

Breitbart explained that he has been carrying the photo on his phone in order to show it to a small number of news reporters who doubted the photo's existence, but said he never meant it to be displayed publicly.

"These people have admitted that they did this surreptitiously and illicitly and they lied in the process saying that they didn't even have a camera in the place," Breitbart said on KFI. "I have a personal relationship with both Jim Norton and Anthony Cumia, and I thought that they were my friends."


Boo hoo!

52 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:19:11am

re: #44 Lidane

What if I was heading there to run the plant? You know, in management.

Heh.

In Alabama? Not in my town.

53 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:22:04am

re: #14 LudwigVanQuixote

But, RM, when you point out the centuries old, deep rooted history of violent racism in the South, certain white defenders of the South here will have their feelings hurt.

This is a completely stupid law, as stupid as the other states who have tried to enact such measures.

Let's take - Arizona. Have we seen general bashing of racist Arizona and those who live there?

You asshole - it's not the references to the South's historic racism that "hurts feelings" - it's your general hatred of and insults toward anything & anybody southern. Just like this comment of yours about "hurt feelings" - it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just a way to take a slap.

54 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:22:07am

re: #52 Decatur Deb

In Alabama? Not in my town.

But I look white. And I don't have a stereotypical accent. I'm also spending this summer working on a project that involves country music, so I actually know the difference between Brad Pitt and Brad Paisley.

Stealth Mexican, that's me. ;)

55 Kragar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:23:35am

re: #54 Lidane

But I look white. And I don't have a stereotypical accent. I'm also spending this summer working on a project that involves country music, so I actually know the difference between Brad Pitt and Brad Paisley.

Stealth Mexican, that's me. ;)

As a buddy of mine would say, you're "as Mexican as Taco Bell."
///

56 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:24:41am

re: #51 Killgore Trout

Breitbart's butthurt...
Anthony Weiner's Genitalia Photo Puts Sirius XM in Sticky Situation


Boo hoo!

Breitbart is either willfully ignorant, stupid, lying his ass off, or some combination thereof. I don't even listen to radio much anymore and even I know that most of the big shows have a video presence for paid website subscribers and/or cable/satellite (Rush, Howard Stern, Bob & Tom, etc.)...it's just the way the business has gone to.

IMO, Breitbart is full of shit.

57 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:26:55am

re: #56 talon_262

Breitbart is either willfully ignorant, stupid, lying his ass off, or some combination thereof. I don't even listen to radio much anymore and even I know that most of the big shows have a video presence for paid website subscribers and/or cable/satellite (Rush, Howard Stern, Bob & Tom, etc.)...it's just the way the business has gone to.

IMO, Breitbart is full of shit.

I think he was just being stupid. Opie and Anthony have done much worse things to much nicer people. Breitbart just assumed they wouldn't burn bridges with him by stealing the pic.

58 jaunte  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:27:14am

re: #51 Killgore Trout

Cumia: "This guy was showing this off like a Sosa rookie card"

59 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:27:14am

re: #54 Lidane

But I look white. And I don't have a stereotypical accent. I'm also spending this summer working on a project that involves country music, so I actually know the difference between Brad Pitt and Brad Paisley.

Stealth Mexican, that's me. ;)

Kidding aside, our little town has (had) Japanese influence from the Sony plant, and French from Michelin. However, Perdue's marquee here advertises for line workers only in Spanish.

60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:28:03am

re: #53 reine.de.tout


Let's take - Arizona. Have we seen general bashing of racist Arizona and those who live there?

Well, it is in the Southwest.

Damn banjo pickin', cactus eatin' scum, they is.

61 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:28:47am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, it is in the Southwest.

Damn banjo pickin', cactus eatin' scum, they is.

That way, you can eat and pick your teeth at the same time !

62 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:30:05am

re: #57 Killgore Trout

I think he was just being stupid. Opie and Anthony have done much worse things to much nicer people. Breitbart just assumed they wouldn't burn bridges with him by stealing the pic.

((too lazy to look it up,, BUT))

didn't they get canned awhile back for running afoul of the FCC!?!?

63 Kragar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:30:49am

re: #62 sattv4u2

((too lazy to look it up,, BUT))

didn't they get canned awhile back for running afoul of the FCC!?!?

I think thats why they moved to satellite.

64 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:31:05am
65 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:32:04am

re: #58 jaunte

Cumia: "This guy was showing this off like a Sosa rookie card"

Do you know the back story to that? When Opie was a child he was showing off a valuable baseball card and one kid grabbed it and tore it up. It's been the basis of his "humor" ever since. fans used to bring him birthday presents and he'd smash them or throw them in the garbage and pee on them. It's what he does.
Here he is stomping on a homeless man's cake
Opie smashes homeless Andrew's Cake

Youtube Video
66 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:32:17am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, it is in the Southwest.

Damn banjo pickin', cactus eatin' scum, they is.

You do realize that the AZ territory was on the side of the CSA and was a provisional Confederate State?

You might want to be careful about the history.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:33:09am

re: #14 LudwigVanQuixote

But, RM, when you point out the centuries old, deep rooted history of violent racism in the South, certain white defenders of the South here will have their feelings hurt.

No one is saying the South doesn't have a race issue. What they're saying is that acting like the rest of country's hands are clean, and ranting about how bad Southerners are gets old.

68 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:34:01am

re: #62 sattv4u2

((too lazy to look it up,, BUT))

didn't they get canned awhile back for running afoul of the FCC!?!?

I'm not sure if it was a fcc fine but they had a couple have sex in St Patrick's Cathedral. Got them fired,

69 jaunte  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:34:30am

re: #65 Killgore Trout

It's hard to believe Breitbart was surprised that they'd take advantage of whatever opportunity presented itself.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:34:59am

re: #53 reine.de.tout

This is a completely stupid law, as stupid as the other states who have tried to enact such measures.

Let's take - Arizona. Have we seen general bashing of racist Arizona and those who live there?

You asshole - it's not the references to the South's historic racism that "hurts feelings" - it's your general hatred of and insults toward anything & anybody southern. Just like this comment of yours about "hurt feelings" - it has nothing to do with the issue at hand, just a way to take a slap.

We did, indeed, see substantial bashing of Arizona and Arizonans. It was just harder to link it to Southern race issues, since the Southwest and the border states have our OWN race issues, which are different.

71 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:35:06am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

No one is saying the South doesn't have a race issue. What they're saying is that acting like the rest of country's hands are clean, and ranting about how bad Southerners are gets old.

And yet we find the worst and most racist of the new laws coming from Southern states.

What gets old, and got old, was the denial of reality and history. What gets even more old is the tribalism that would rather play web favorites than look at both history and current events that form a clear pattern.

72 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:36:00am

re: #64 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #66 LudwigVanQuixote

Yup,, because all those people from the 'south" that fought in the war all still live there

Every last one of them,,, and no northerner has ever migrated south since ,, and no racism has ever reared its ugly head in the north

Nope,,, non,, ,never,, nuh uh!

73 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:36:01am

re: #64 LudwigVanQuixote

the stain of racism runs very deep in the south

I didn't know Jews believed in Original Sin.

/

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:36:32am

re: #66 LudwigVanQuixote

You do realize that the AZ territory was on the side of the CSA and was a provisional Confederate State?

You might want to be careful about the history.

Kentucky was with the Union. Does this mean if they pass something similar, we'll consider them Northerners?

75 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:36:33am

re: #67 SanFranciscoZionist

this ,, (better than mine,, )
Thanks

76 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:37:10am

re: #49 HoosierHoops

Not familiar with that recent case, but if the Court ruled in that fashion, then the lower court would have to follow the Court's decision on that aspect if it's the same issues involved.

77 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:38:44am

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

And I thought you taught history too. I am saddened by you.

re: #72 sattv4u2

And the gadfly speaks.

re: #73 wrenchwench

With a helper.

OK guys...

Fact or not... Are we talking about current events right now that are part of a larger historical pattern or are we just playing grade school politics?

Sorry, but there really is a deep seated history of racism in the South and being openly and disgustingly racist is more tolerated there to this day as we see in this bill.

78 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:39:20am

re: #71 LudwigVanQuixote

And yet we find the worst and most racist of the new laws coming from Southern states.

The guy that writes most of these laws is from Kansas. He's now their Secretary of State.

79 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:39:32am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Kentucky was with the Union. Does this mean if they pass something similar, we'll consider them Northerners?

KY was only with the Union because the governor refused to sign the bill of secession, leaving the state for a time, IIRC. A separate secessionist government was set up in Danville, but was soon crushed.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:40:28am

Arizona's race issues are not Southern race issues. I know this, because their race issues are far more similar to those in my neck of the woods. I've been watching the crazy that goes with the Mexican border for a very long time.

I was around when Prop. 187 went through.

And California was a Union state, and New Mexico a Union territory.

Every culturally and regionally distinct chunk of the country has its own shit that goes with this.

81 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:41:08am
82 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:41:41am

re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote

And I thought you taught history too. I am saddened by you.

You seem to be under the impression that you're teaching something about history that people don't already know, and that if we don't shout just as loud, we're in denial.

83 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:41:43am

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote

Wanna guess which side Kansas was on in the Civil war?

Your ignorance is only surpassed by your stupidity. However, I do realize that digging at me is more important to you than truth.

You are a moron wrench.

And you are an elitist.

84 allegro  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:43:21am

re: #71 LudwigVanQuixote

And yet we find the worst and most racist of the new laws coming from Southern states.

I believe the rabid promotion of voter ID cards are happening in the north as well. Racism is a national problem. It is certainly continues to be problem in the south but is in no way limited to the south.

What gets old, and got old, was the denial of reality and history.

Which I have never seen happen here at LGF. We southerners have always acknowledged the problem - unlike some of y'all up north, like right now for instance as you continue to single out the south. There are many, many of us down here who fight to change attitudes every single day and ultimately, we will do it.

What gets even more old is the tribalism that would rather play web favorites than look at both history and current events that form a clear pattern.

You might want to avoid accusing others of tribalism, kiddo.

85 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:43:40am

Focus on the Family, since they haven't had their name in the news enough lately, brings its brand of stupid bigotry yet again:

Focus On The Family Leader: Why Not Have An Ex-Gay Pride Month?

A self-proclaimed “ex-gay” official with Focus on the Family’s California affiliate, in response to Los Angeles’s recognition of LGBT Heritage Month in June, has called on the city to create a day honoring “ex-gays.” The Focus chapter, called the California Family Council, earlier this year slammed anti-bullying initiatives for allegedly “push[ing] a homosexual message” and attacked efforts to incorporate gay and lesbian historical figures in the school curriculum.

Speaking to the American Family Association’s OneNewsNow, Jim Domen, who leads the CFC’s outreach to clergy and was a staunch supporter of Proposition 8, said the government should honor people like him who “changed our lives” by becoming ‘ex-gays’
[...]
Domen contends the city is essentially siding with those working to reverse that initiative, which upholds traditional marriage in the state.

"We continue to see this in our government leadership," he laments, "and it's heartbreaking when the people have spoken and yet elected officials will -- via their power or what have you -- choose to go against the will of the people."

86 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:44:23am

re: #84 allegro

I believe the rabid promotion of voter ID cards are happening in the north as well. Racism is a national problem. It is certainly continues to be problem in the south but is in no way limited to the south.

Which I have never seen happen here at LGF. We southerners have always acknowledged the problem - unlike some of y'all up north, like right now for instance as you continue to single out the south. There are many, many of us down here who fight to change attitudes every single day and ultimately, we will do it.

You might want to avoid accusing others of tribalism, kiddo.

Laws passed in the North tend to be more subtle. They target 'the urban poor'. Let's guess who that is.

87 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:45:17am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Arizona's race issues are not Southern race issues. I know this, because their race issues are far more similar to those in my neck of the woods. I've been watching the crazy that goes with the Mexican border for a very long time.

I was around when Prop. 187 went through.

And California was a Union state, and New Mexico a Union territory.

Every culturally and regionally distinct chunk of the country has its own shit that goes with this.

Yeah, and if not for the Compromise of 1850 we would not have been.

Also worthy to note, CA and the west coast gave the country anti-Alien land laws, and the rabblerousing behind Japanese Internment.

Segregation by race was so bad here, a CA court case was a predecessor to Brown vs Board of Education. Same for anti-misegenation laws, smacked down first in CA before going to Loving vs Virginia.

This says nothing about the de facto segregation, entrenched all over the country. I have no issue with bashing southern racism. Nobody gets a pass, in my book.

88 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:46:05am

re: #85 RadicalModerate

Focus On The Family Leader: Why Not Have An Ex-Gay Pride Month?

Because there's no such thing as an "ex-gay" person. That's why.

89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:46:22am

It'd be funny if Vermont were on the southern border.

People driving around in Subaru Foresters and Priuses hunting illegals...

90 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:46:34am

re: #74 SanFranciscoZionist

Kentucky was with the Union. Does this mean if they pass something similar, we'll consider them Northerners?

OK so you don't teach history.

Little refresher. Kentucky was split. There were many battles there of the brother against brother variety. The legislature allied with the union and put down most of the populace who wanted to join the CSA. This happened after General Polk failed to secure the state.

These days, Kentucky is very much of the South.

IN any case, it does not change the realities of American politics one bit.

Riddle me this SFZ, why is it called the Southern Strategy? What is the Southern Strategy? Why is it working so very well in the present day South?

91 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:46:40am

re: #88 Lidane

Because there's no such thing as an "ex-gay" person. That's why.

Zombie want Ex Undead Month!

92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:46:48am

re: #88 Lidane

Because there's no such thing as an "ex-gay" person. That's why.

Well, other than that one time.

93 simoom  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:47:01am

Another rating agency weighs in on the debt ceiling and federal default:
[Link: thehill.com...]

The United States would endanger its coveted AAA credit rating if Congress allows even a short-term "technical default" to occur, according to the Fitch credit rating agency.

Fitch said Wednesday it would put the nation's credit rating on "ratings watch negative" if a deal to raise the $14.3 trillion debt limit is not reached by August.

It also warned that even a short-term "technical default" would do major damage to the nation's credit reputation. A technical default would take place if the country were unable to pay its debt payments because of a failure to raise the debt limit. In such a circumstance, the U.S. would technically have the ability to borrow more money, but would lack legislative authority to do so.
A true default happens when a country literally has no ability to pay its debt payments.

The agency's take comes after some have suggested that a short-term default might not be damaging to the country.

Fitch's comments now mean all three of the major credit ratings agencies have weighed in on the debt-limit debate.

...

Fitch maintained that a default would be "without precedent" and "would pose a systemic threat to U.S. and global financial stability."

If the Treasury missed a payment on its debts, even for a short period, Fitch would lower the nation's credit rating — adding that it would be "unlikely" the government could return to AAA after such a default.

94 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:47:08am
95 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:47:46am

re: #79 Decatur Deb

KY was only with the Union because the governor refused to sign the bill of secession, leaving the state for a time, IIRC. A separate secessionist government was set up in Danville, but was soon crushed.

What I wrote was the short and somewhat wrong version. Here's the complex Wiki story. I swear I haven't edited it. The South considered Kentucky a member of the Confederacy, and included a star for it on (one of) their flags.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:48:03am

re: #89 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It'd be funny if Vermont were on the southern border.

People driving around in Subaru Foresters and Priuses hunting illegals...

We've got that in a couple California towns, sort of.

97 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:48:14am

re: #94 LudwigVanQuixote

Yes, with competition like you, it is hard not to be.

Which side was Kansas on in the Civil War?

98 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:48:14am

re: #84 allegro

I believe the rabid promotion of voter ID cards are happening in the north as well. Racism is a national problem. It is certainly continues to be problem in the south but is in no way limited to the south.

There is more to the US than just north/south.

99 garhighway  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:48:56am

re: #85 RadicalModerate

Focus on the Family, since they haven't had their name in the news enough lately, brings its brand of stupid bigotry yet again:

Focus On The Family Leader: Why Not Have An Ex-Gay Pride Month?

Hey, and while we are at it, how about an "Ex-Black Pride Month"?

That would make just as much sense.

100 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:49:11am

re: #86 SanFranciscoZionist

Laws passed in the North tend to be more subtle. They target 'the urban poor'. Let's guess who that is.

Here in Alabama the racism has become more subtle as well. The keywords are 'welfare' and 'affirmative action'.

101 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:49:23am

Gotta go to work. Y'all play nice(r).

102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:50:18am

re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote

Riddle me this SFZ, why is it called the Southern Strategy? What is the Southern Strategy? Why is it working so very well in the present day South?

Because the pol most often associated with it was from Southern California?

103 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:51:18am

re: #97 wrenchwench

Which side was Kansas on in the Civil War?

Kansas was a Union state, but keep in mind that it basically fought the Civil War before the rest of the country did.

104 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:51:54am

re: #100 Decatur Deb

Here in Alabama the racism has become more subtle as well. The keywords are 'welfare' and 'affirmative action'.

Here in Texas, they've added "immigration reform" to that list.

105 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:53:21am

re: #97 wrenchwench

Which side was Kansas on in the Civil War?

Another q might be, what did Kansas have to do with one of the singlemost important Civil Rights SCOTUS rulings of the 20th century?

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:53:26am

re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote

OK so you don't teach history.

Little refresher. Kentucky was split. There were many battles there of the brother against brother variety. The legislature allied with the union and put down most of the populace who wanted to join the CSA. This happened after General Polk failed to secure the state.

These days, Kentucky is very much of the South.

IN any case, it does not change the realities of American politics one bit.

Riddle me this SFZ, why is it called the Southern Strategy? What is the Southern Strategy? Why is it working so very well in the present day South?

Ludwig, I can see this is going to get more and more hysterical until people knuckle under, but I am not planning to knuckle under.

And you entirely miss the point about poor ol' Kentucky. These days, Arizona is very much of the Southwest, but that apparently does not matter in their case.

You are willfully refusing to understand why people are challenging you. It is not because we are all stupid and do not know the history of race in the South. It is because you cannot talk about this without singling out the South, and getting rather personal with it.

I am not impressed by your ranting, nor do I want to participate in another discussion that cover nothing except the evils of the South. If we want to talk about Alabama and what's going on there, great.

Seriously--the Southwest and the states on the Mexican border are our own mess, and we have a history that goes back to the Civil War era, earlier actually, of extreme racist hostility toward immigrants. It's been used politically very successfully.

Now, discuss calmly if you want, or rant on if you want, but I am fed up to the teeth with the way you start personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with you about anything.

107 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:55:02am

re: #77 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #72 sattv4u2

And the gadfly speaks.

How many times must I tell you

I prefer Ne're Do Well

Or better still, Rapscallion !!

108 Virginia Plain  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:55:13am

So what happens if my brown self was travelling through Alabama, or Arizona, and my Colorado driver's license were not enough to prove that I'm a citizen? How do I get out of jail?

109 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:55:55am

re: #97 wrenchwench

Which side was Kansas on in the Civil War?

Why Kansas was just like Kentucky... bitterly split.

The point being that Kansas was not some sort of hard core Union state. It was split between very hard core confederates and less hard core Unionists. There were battles (some even real fights with bloodshed) there to make the state a slave state going back to the 1840's.

Again, much of the state really wanted to go slave. It almost did on several occasions.

Those same attitudes still run very deep. We still see them today. That is the whole point. That this crap comes from Kansas is no surprise. It would be shocking though in NY or Massachusetts.

I suppose we could go into the economics of the range wars but the fact is you wouldn't care to learn the history. I understand you want to make this into a personal fight. I understand you have your little friends who like doing that. In the end though, it doesn't change the plain as the nose on anyone's face history.

110 Randy W. Weeks  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:55:55am

Guess I'll need to take my passport with me the next time I'm in Alabama. *

* I get darker than hell in the summer and I cuss pretty good in Spanish.

111 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:56:20am

re: #104 Lidane

Here in Texas, they've added "immigration reform" to that list.

Here as well, apparently. I admit this law snuck past me. A year or so ago, my wife's RC church held an event involving consular officials fron Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala etc. to help parishoners get their paperwork squared away. Until then, I don't think many people realized how large the immigrant population was. The bodegas should have been a hint.

112 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:56:34am

re: #107 sattv4u2

re: #72 sattv4u2

And the gadfly speaks.

How many times must I tell you

I prefer Ne're Do Well

Or better still, Rapscallion !!

Can I still be your helper?

113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:57:29am

re: #108 Virginia Plain

So what happens if my brown self was travelling through Alabama, or Arizona, and my Colorado driver's license were not enough to prove that I'm a citizen? How do I get out of jail?

We could always do an update of The Green Book. No, I'm not joking. That was only a generation ago. I bet some of my relatives still have copies.

114 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:58:07am

re: #108 Virginia Plain

So what happens if my brown self was travelling through Alabama, or Arizona, and my Colorado driver's license were not enough to prove that I'm a citizen? How do I get out of jail?

AAA bail bonds. 24/7 service across from the courthouse. I can also recommend a good Jewish lawyer.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:58:24am

re: #97 wrenchwench

Which side was Kansas on in the Civil War?

Kansas entered the Union as a free state after vicious infighting.

116 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:58:27am

re: #108 Virginia Plain

So what happens if my brown self was travelling through Alabama, or Arizona, and my Colorado driver's license were not enough to prove that I'm a citizen? How do I get out of jail?

You don't. You go back to where you came from.

///

117 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:58:34am

re: #112 wrenchwench

Can I still be your helper?

Okay,,,

get me a coffee,,, very dark, no sugar, sugar!

118 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:58:51am

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

but the fact is you wouldn't care to learn the history. I understand you want to make this into a personal fight. I understand you have your little friends who like doing that.

I want to make it personal?

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:59:56am

re: #108 Virginia Plain

So what happens if my brown self was travelling through Alabama, or Arizona, and my Colorado driver's license were not enough to prove that I'm a citizen? How do I get out of jail?

Good question, actually. I suggest calling your nearest local lizard.

120 garhighway  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:00:00pm

I wonder if someone has put together a "Racism Index" that looks at various indicia of racism in public life (voter ID laws, income inequality by race, percentage of minorities in office, etc...) to see how individual states fare?

We all know the South's terrible history, just as we all know that some areas in the North have been pretty bad as well. But it would be useful if someone took a stab at moving this from the anecdotal to the systematic.

121 JeffM70  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:00:03pm

re: #108 Virginia Plain

They can't ship you to Mexico unless they let you out of jail first.

122 allegro  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:00:23pm

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

I suppose we could go into the economics of the range wars but the fact is you wouldn't care to learn the history. I understand you want to make this into a personal fight. I understand you have your little friends who like doing that. In the end though, it doesn't change the plain as the nose on anyone's face history.

Downding for behaving like an insulting little asshole.

123 Kragar  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:01:07pm

re: #116 Lidane

///

"Roman Moroni Deported to Sweden. Says He's Not From There."

124 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:01:16pm

Well, this is annoying.

125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:01:23pm

re: #99 garhighway

Hey, and while we are at it, how about an "Ex-Black Pride Month"?

That would make just as much sense.

Ah, not so fast. It's already been done. [Link: bit.ly...]

126 [deleted]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:01:50pm
127 rwdflynavy  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:02:12pm

re: #99 garhighway

Hey, and while we are at it, how about an "Ex-Black Pride Month"?

That would make just as much sense.

Michael Jackson is dead man, let it go.
//

128 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:02:59pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

I am disgusted. by all of those posters here who wanted to make this a little tribal personal thing

OH MY FRAKIN GOD

How many names have YOU called people?
How many names have people here called you?

129 rwdflynavy  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:03:03pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

And this is where I will sign off for a bit and go into the real world for a while.

There is a deep seated and violent history of racism in the American South that still plays out today.

What American does not know this?

Only a moron denies this.

I am disgusted. by all of those posters here who wanted to make this a little tribal personal thing. Truth is more important.

That people would rather play web politics than acknowledge basic truths is repulsive.

To those who stayed out... let me ask, is being web popular more important than truth?

Do you prefer being "popular" on the web to the extent that you deny history, ironically on a thread bashing people who deny and re-write history.

Does that irony even penetrate?

Lot of cowards here. You disgust me.


Buh bye.

130 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:03:17pm

re: #108 Virginia Plain

So what happens if my brown self was travelling through Alabama, or Arizona, and my Colorado driver's license were not enough to prove that I'm a citizen? How do I get out of jail?

I'm not brown, but I carry my passport because my driver's license is considered inadequate.

131 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:04:01pm

Just yelled this thread out to a politically-hip friend who also missed the legislation. We are discussing the future of her lawn care.

132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:04:03pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

And this is where I will sign off for a bit and go into the real world for a while.

There is a deep seated and violent history of racism in the American South that still plays out today.

What American does not know this?

Only a moron denies this.

I am disgusted. by all of those posters here who wanted to make this a little tribal personal thing. Truth is more important.

That people would rather play web politics than acknowledge basic truths is repulsive.

To those who stayed out... let me ask, is being web popular more important than truth?

Do you prefer being "popular" on the web to the extent that you deny history, ironically on a thread bashing people who deny and re-write history.

Does that irony even penetrate?

Lot of cowards here. You disgust me.

Who here has denied or rewritten history?

133 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:04:45pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

In other words, even if I had kept my typing fingers quiet, I would still disgust you.

No harm done, then.

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:05:21pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

And this is where I will sign off for a bit and go into the real world for a while.

There is a deep seated and violent history of racism in the American South that still plays out today.

What American does not know this?

Only a moron denies this.

I am disgusted. by all of those posters here who wanted to make this a little tribal personal thing. Truth is more important.

That people would rather play web politics than acknowledge basic truths is repulsive.

To those who stayed out... let me ask, is being web popular more important than truth?

Do you prefer being "popular" on the web to the extent that you deny history, ironically on a thread bashing people who deny and re-write history.

Does that irony even penetrate?

Lot of cowards here. You disgust me.

The feeling is becoming mutual, as you refuse to hear what people say, care what they feel, or learn what they might teach.

135 Jack Burton  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:05:24pm

re: #123 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Roman Moroni Deported to Sweden. Says He's Not From There."

Farging Iceholes!

136 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:06:05pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

NO you miss the point.

Yes the racism in the west is directed at different groups. The mentality behind it is the same and it is projected by the same people just at different targets.

It is appalling that you are even up dinged for writing such drivel, and in any case this thread is about Alabama which last time we checked was most certainly in the deep south.

OK fine SFZ, being in a certain sort of little clique here is more important to you than basic, we learned it in grade school truth. I get that. That is why a supposed "Zionist" is weak on Israel and all that, but honestly, do you ever look in the mirror and ask yourself how you allow yourself to deny reality so much?

137 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:06:14pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

In other words, even if I had kept my typing fingers quiet, I would still disgust you.

No harm done, then.

Hey ,, helper

How do I get spewed coffee of my screen!?!?!

138 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:06:14pm

re: #132 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Who here has denied or rewritten history?

To the contrary; I didn't know about the Green Book. Thanks.

139 Lidane  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:06:34pm

Ugh. I'm staring at a bunch of Twitter feeds on HootSuite. Bored as all hell. Just took Tylenol to try and kill this headache. Ow.

BBL

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:06:42pm

re: #136 LudwigVanQuixote

NO you miss the point.

Yes the racism in the west is directed at different groups. The mentality behind it is the same and it is projected by the same people just at different targets.

It is appalling that you are even up dinged for writing such drivel, and in any case this thread is about Alabama which last time we checked was most certainly in the deep south.

OK fine SFZ, being in a certain sort of little clique here is more important to you than basic, we learned it in grade school truth. I get that. That is why a supposed "Zionist" is weak on Israel and all that, but honestly, do you ever look in the mirror and ask yourself how you allow yourself to deny reality so much?

Fuck you too, chatchkeleh.

Over and out.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:07:09pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

MAN I WISH MY SKIN WAS FAIRER


MAYBE THEN YOU'D LOVE ME

LOVE ME AND MY GUNDAMS


:(

142 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:07:19pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

Fuck you too, chatchkeleh.

Over and out.

ouch ..THATS gonna leave a nasty mark!

143 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:07:30pm

re: #136 LudwigVanQuixote

Lighten up, LVQ. You still have work to do here.

144 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:07:33pm

Would you all kindly KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF?
Don't make me bust out the Happy Hippy Drums!

145 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:08:08pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

That was uncalled for..You being a college prof I expect a more civil discourse

146 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:08:09pm

re: #137 sattv4u2

Hey ,, helper

How do I get spewed coffee of my screen!?!?!

Wait. Are you one of my little friends? (I don't know how big anyone here is...)

147 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:08:10pm

As is often the case, reading LGF comments can be a great spectator sport.

148 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:08:44pm

Well, back from the store. No slivo to be found in the county, it would seem. Came back with bourbon, brandy, and B&B - eh, what the hell, I'll mix it all up in a big old glass and see what happens.

Looks like a nice little chat broke out in my absence. Perhaps I should start pouring the guests their drinks now?

149 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:09:18pm

re: #147 researchok

As is often the case, reading LGF comments can be a great spectator sport.

I'm trying to become the kind of person who calls for an end to it, like Varek. I am failing.

150 allegro  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:09:35pm

re: #148 Guanxi88

Well, back from the store. No slivo to be found in the county, it would seem. Came back with bourbon, brandy, and B&B - eh, what the hell, I'll mix it all up in a big old glass and see what happens.

Looks like a nice little chat broke out in my absence. Perhaps I should start pouring the guests their drinks now?

Holding out my glass...

151 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:09:36pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

Would you all kindly KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF?
Don't make me bust out the Happy Hippy Drums!

Screw that - I digs on this this kinda stuff; I dig it special.

Don't mellow my harsh, man.

152 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:09:37pm
Focus on the Family, since they haven't had their name in the news enough lately, brings its brand of stupid bigotry yet again:

Focus On The Family Leader: Why Not Have An Ex-Gay Pride Month?

One virtue of the past decade is how ridiculous and petty such a statement now sounds.

FotF also should recognize that "people who hate gays" is not the same thing as "Ex-Gay". I'd be surprised if there was enough of the latter to fill a classroom.

153 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:09:55pm

re: #136 LudwigVanQuixote

NO you miss the point.

Yes the racism in the west is directed at different groups. The mentality behind it is the same and it is projected by the same people just at different targets.

It is appalling that you are even up dinged for writing such drivel, and in any case this thread is about Alabama which last time we checked was most certainly in the deep south.

OK fine SFZ, being in a certain sort of little clique here is more important to you than basic, we learned it in grade school truth. I get that. That is why a supposed "Zionist" is weak on Israel and all that, but honestly, do you ever look in the mirror and ask yourself how you allow yourself to deny reality so much?

Aren't you the same guy touting the fair-skinned fiance?

154 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:10:05pm

re: #150 allegro

Holding out my glass...

Here ya go, little bit of everything, all mixed up. The Mr. Creosote, I call it.

155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:05pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

Would you all kindly KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF?
Don't make me bust out the Happy Hippy Drums!

I don't mind those so much. It's the hacky sacks that work the nerves.

156 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:21pm

re: #146 wrenchwench

Wait. Are you one of my little friends? (I don't know how big anyone here is...)

Just call me King Of The Munchkins

157 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:21pm

re: #149 wrenchwench

I'm trying to become the kind of person who calls for an end to it, like Varek. I am failing.

I have decided in our next lives, we will be siblings,

Drive each other nuts, but siblings.

158 allegro  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:31pm

re: #154 Guanxi88

Here ya go, little bit of everything, all mixed up. The Mr. Creosote, I call it.

Anyone who bolsters me with yummy mood altering substances is my friend for life. :) *hic*

159 rwdflynavy  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:33pm

re: #145 HoosierHoops

That was uncalled for..You being a college prof I expect a more civil discourse

As long as you never, ever disagree with him.

160 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:45pm

re: #155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't mind those so much. It's the hacky sacks that work the nerves.

No, those are good; they keep the already wobbly hippies off balance, making it easier to knock them down and steal their hemp macrame wallets.

161 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:11:49pm

BBIAB

162 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:12:46pm

Maybe this will calm the tension in here!!


Youtube Video
163 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:12:53pm

re: #161 sattv4u2

BBIAB

Take your time...
*wink*

164 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:13:14pm

Sigh.
You all need a zap.

Youtube Video
165 Jack Burton  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:14:04pm

re: #144 Varek Raith

Would you all kindly KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF?
Don't make me bust out the Happy Hippy Drums!

If Commander Shepard was here, he/she would have had enough of the disingenuous assertions and Falcon-Punched someone a long time ago.

166 Stanghazi  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:14:14pm

BreakingNews Breaking News

Gingrich update: AP reports campaign manager, spokesman and key aides have all resigned together [Link: on.msnbc.com...]

167 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:14:15pm

re: #157 researchok

I have decided in our next lives, we will be siblings,

Drive each other nuts, but siblings.

Dude. In this life I have three brothers. And three sisters. In my next life, I am going to have my own room. Maybe not even parents.

168 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:14:26pm

re: #158 allegro

Anyone who bolsters me with yummy mood altering substances is my friend for life. :) *hic*

Ya know, over the years, I made a lot of friends just by always being the guy with the tonsil polish in times of need. In warm months, always carried about 6 ounces of spirits with me at all times; in colder times, I could carry as much as two pints - thank God for big coats.

Helped many a poor soul through trying times, made many an occasion into an instant party.

And, rightly or not, was known as the Johnny Appleseed for hard-core alkies - would often buy a pint of cheap vodka for street-drunks with the shakes, or staring down the barrel of DT's.

Kinda like Gandhi, in that way.

169 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:15:02pm

This is LGF.

We talk here, disagree here, complain here and from time to time, even agree.

What we don't do here is make an attack personal.

170 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:15:24pm

re: #166 Stanley Sea

BreakingNews Breaking News

Gingrich update: AP reports campaign manager, spokesman and key aides have all resigned together [Link: on.msnbc.com...]

Whoops.
/

171 Obdicut  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:15:35pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

Nobody denied history.

The South has a history of racism unlike anywhere else in the US, as you'd expect from an area that had slavery more recently. That informs their racism even to this day.

Other states have vicious, terrible histories of racism, like California, where the Chinese were, for generations, systemically deprived of their rights.

Attempts to deprive black voters of their rights by disenfranchising them have been nationwide, recently. That represents one of the largest systemic racist (in result if not intention) campaigns of the modern day, but it is nationwide, not unique to the south, and intellectually defended by many.

That the South has a huge problem with racism is known and acknowledged by everyone. Reine has never, ever said that the South doesn't have a deep stain of racism running through it.

Finally, when you-- and many others, this isn't specific to you-- talk about The South, they are themselves almost always referring to just the white south, and a particular subset of the white south. That's a disturbing part of the problem of why the south is hard to talk about.

172 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:15:39pm

re: #104 Lidane

Here in Texas, they've added "immigration reform" to that list.

Don't forget about the anti-gay bigotry that is in the 2010 Texas GOP platform, which proposes things like re-criminalizing sodomy (Lawrence v Texas be damned) criminalizing same-sex marriage (as a felony), and making anti-gay violence immune from criminal and civil prosecution as "protected religious expression".

173 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:16:08pm

re: #167 wrenchwench

Dude. In this life I have three brothers. And three sisters. In my next life, I am going to have my own room. Maybe not even parents.

LOL

That is why I will be there- to disabuse of the notion you can have it your way.

174 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:16:24pm

re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote

This is NOT cool. You're getting on my last nerve and this is the last timeout you'll get.

175 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:16:34pm

re: #3 Thanos

Another state off my travel radar. If we do have to pass through, we won't be stopping.

I couldn't go that far; I have dear friends in and around Birmingham and there are more than a couple of Lizards that live there. Plus, I got to get my Whataburger fix every now and then and everyone should visit the US Space and Rocket Center in Huntsville at least once, IMO.

Doesn't mean I have to like or care for their political situation though...

176 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:16:40pm

re: #168 Guanxi88


GANDHI???
LOLOLOLOLOL
May I have some please Mr.. Gandhi??
LOL

177 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:17:15pm

re: #176 reloadingisnotahobby

GANDHI???
LOLOLOLOLOL
May I have some please Mr.. Gandhi??
LOL

Here you go. Would that I had the arms of vishnu, I'd be the bartender from hell.

178 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:17:32pm

I GUESS IDAHO IS IN THE SOUTH NOW

179 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:19:02pm

re: #177 Guanxi88

Here you go. Would that I had the arms of vishnu, I'd be the bartender from hell.

Although all my tips would go to roll-on deodorant, as I think about it.

180 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:19:04pm

I GUESS MINNESOTA IS IN THE SOUTH

181 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:19:40pm

re: #177 Guanxi88

Here you go. Would that I had the arms of vishnu, I'd be the bartender from hell.

If you had the arms of Vishnu, wouldn't you be the bartender from heaven? Or, you know...where do Hindu deities hang out? Do they have some sort of Olympus-like set-up?

182 allegro  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:19:42pm

re: #168 Guanxi88

Ya know, over the years, I made a lot of friends just by always being the guy with the tonsil polish in times of need. In warm months, always carried about 6 ounces of spirits with me at all times; in colder times, I could carry as much as two pints - thank God for big coats.

...

A favorite get-away for my my late hubby and me was to run the Guadalupe River on hot summer days with an extra inner tube that carried a cooler filled with cold brew and a baggy filled with kick ass home-grown fatties. 'Tis a joy to spread the goodness all around.

183 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:20:10pm

I'm burning some Vacation time.. Man daytime TV pretty much sucks.
I watching the green planet about salt..Yes I'm watching a special about Salt.Somebody Save me!

184 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:20:13pm

re: #178 WindUpBird

I GUESS IDAHO IS IN THE SOUTH NOW

Thus one of the reasons I carry concealed when I go to Idaho!!
It's kinda crazy up there....Cowboy lookin Nazis!WTF

185 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:20:43pm

re: #182 allegro

A favorite get-away for my my late hubby and me was to run the Guadalupe River on hot summer days with an extra inner tube that carried a cooler filled with cold brew and a baggy filled with kick ass home-grown fatties. 'Tis a joy to spread the goodness all around.

Only way to live is to share the joy, thereby getting the guys with the REALLY good stuff to drop their guard long enough so you can grab it and make a clean getaway.

186 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:21:01pm

re: #184 reloadingisnotahobby

Thus one of the reasons I carry concealed when I go to Idaho!!
It's kinda crazy up there...Cowboy lookin Nazis!WTF

It's the potatoes.
Never trusted em.
/

187 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:21:35pm

re: #183 HoosierHoops

I'm burning some Vacation time.. Man daytime TV pretty much sucks.
I watching the green planet about salt..Yes I'm watching a special about Salt.Somebody Save me!

Salt. Man, you need to get out more.

I.m trying to save you, here.

188 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:21:36pm

re: #186 Varek Raith

It's the potatoes.
Never trusted em.
/

NOW do you see why I say we should kept the Irish out?

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:23:06pm
Focus On The Family Leader: Why Not Have An Ex-Gay Pride Month?

Maybe we should have an Ex-Gay Pride Month.

We could have a special day for all 2 people who still call themselves that, a year after trying it.

We could honor founding fathers like Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper who founded Exodus International, then got married, years later.

Or Colin Cook, founder of Homosexuals Anonymous, who was caught using it to hit on patients.

We could hold beatification services for George Rekers, the world-renown expert on twink sexuality.

The more I think about it, the better the idea sounds.

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:23:23pm

re: #183 HoosierHoops


NETFLIX DUDE!

191 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:23:27pm

re: #188 Guanxi88

NOW do you see why I say we should kept the Irish out?

NoWAY!!
I love limericks!!!

192 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:23:56pm

re: #187 researchok

Salt. Man, you need to get out more.

I.m trying to save you, here.

It's too hot here...Took Winston for a walk and felt like crap.. Maybe we'll go to the lake later.

193 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:24:33pm

re: #191 reloadingisnotahobby

NoWAY!!
I love limericks!!!

Quick, grab him before he goes for the shillelagh! I freakin' knew it, man - Patty's everywhere.

194 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:25:11pm

re: #192 HoosierHoops

It's too hot here...Took Winston for a walk and felt like crap.. Maybe we'll go to the lake later.

I hear that.

Hot as hell here too- 97

195 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:25:49pm

I'm late to the party, but...

In the US, is it legal to arrest someone when they can't prove they aren't breaking the law?

Doesn't it go the other way? The law has to have proof first.

196 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:26:26pm

re: #195 EmmmieG

I'm late to the party, but...

In the US, is it legal to arrest someone when they can't prove they aren't breaking the law?

Doesn't it go the other way? The law has to have proof first.

US, not CS.

197 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:26:32pm

re: #192 HoosierHoops

re: #194 researchok

It's a lovely 79 here with a light breeze...Speaking of weather ..I gotta get back to work!
Outside...

198 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:26:33pm

re: #190 WindUpBird

NETFLIX DUDE!

True Grit is on demand! I'm watching it in 5 minutes.. I loved the first one

199 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:26:54pm

re: #193 Guanxi88

Quick, grab him before he goes for the shillelagh! I freakin' knew it, man - Patty's everywhere.

Hell, they've got agents in London. Just listen to this intel report:

(And a GREAT song to scream out at the top of your lungs when you're full up to your back teeth with the good stuff)

Youtube Video
200 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:27:38pm

re: #195 EmmmieG

...Que??
Doon confusss me so...

201 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:28:03pm

re: #199 Guanxi88

Patty wrote a letter to his sweetheart, Molly O,
Sayin' should she not receive it, write and let him know.

202 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:29:56pm

re: #178 WindUpBird

Hey WUB! Ice and I saw this at the Glasgow West End Carnival last weekend and thought of you -

Image: bird3.jpg

203 researchok  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:32:43pm

re: #202 Jimmah

Hey WUB! Ice and I saw this at the Glasgow West End Carnival last weekend and thought of you -

Image: bird3.jpg

I thought you were taller, Jimmah.
//

204 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:32:45pm

re: #195 EmmmieG

I'm late to the party, but...

In the US, is it legal to arrest someone when they can't prove they aren't breaking the law?

Doesn't it go the other way? The law has to have proof first.

At least a reasonable suspicion--which seems to be the problem here. What is 'reasonable suspicion' of a person not being in the country legally?

Same problem as Arizona--it requires the police to actively spend their time doing amateur profiling of anyone furrin'-lookin', instead of, you know POLICE WORK.

And that's leaving the civil rights issue out of it completely.

205 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:33:26pm

Another good, if obscure boozing hymn:

Youtube Video

O, fill your steins for dear old Maine,
Shout 'till the rafters ring,
Stand, and drink the toast once again,
That every loyal Maine man sings

206 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:34:00pm

re: #205 Guanxi88

Another good, if obscure boozing hymn:

[Video]O, fill your steins for dear old Maine,
Shout 'till the rafters ring,
Stand, and drink the toast once again,
That every loyal Maine man sings

Got me into a party on Beacon Hill once, that one did.

207 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:37:14pm

re: #196 Decatur Deb

US, not CS.

Afaic, the goal of these and other bigoted laws is a return to a post-Reconstruction, two-tiered society. Special rights/small government for ignorant bigots; curtailed, limited rights/police state for everyone in their path. They know they'll never get the Dred Scott Decision back, but will settle for Plessy vs Ferguson America.

208 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:40:28pm

re: #207 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Afaic, the goal of these and other bigoted laws is a return to a post-Reconstruction, two-tiered society. Special rights/small government for ignorant bigots; curtailed, limited rights/police state for everyone in their path. They know they'll never get the Dred Scott Decision back, but will settle for Plessy vs Ferguson America.

There is that, but some of comments on voter ID laws are confusing race with simple voter suppression. Of course, suppressing the Black vote is effectively suppressing the Dem vote.

209 Guanxi88  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:41:58pm

ahh, crap! The smell of B&B is bringing back memories of old love.

Dammit!! Why, oh why, didn't I just get the everclear and the koolaid and be done with it?

210 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:47:13pm

re: #126 LudwigVanQuixote

You know, I think that most of us here would agree that you're a very smart man and that you know your shit inside and out on a multitude of subjects, AGW being one of them. I also realize that, over time, the best of us can get worn down and frazzled in trying to put info out here and debate it over and over and over; it can make a person go crazy.

But I also see that, while you're mostly correct on the history of racism and xenophobia in the American South, you seem bound and determined to beat us over the head and get combative, insulting other Lizards when you could be having a reasoned, rational discussion about. Maybe you should just walk away from the keyboard at times like this because getting butthurt sometimes isn't worth it, especially if you can be a bit more even-keeled about it all. As much as it pains me to say it because you are such a valuable resource to LGF, whenever you get like this, part of me wishes you stayed gone the last time you went gonzo, because life's too damn short for unnecessary drama.

211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:48:08pm

re: #208 Decatur Deb

There is that, but some of comments on voter ID laws are confusing race with simple voter suppression. Of course, suppressing the Black vote is effectively suppressing the Dem vote.

Yeah, Civil Rights rulings and acts affected more than just Blacks, even though we were the country's most visible targets of the two-tier system. Likewise, the current proposals affect way more than just Blacks, it's seniors, students, immigrants and more. Imo it's in the service of the same old perps, but that can be argued.

212 garhighway  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:50:18pm

re: #210 talon_262

You know, I think that most of us here would agree that you're a very smart man and that you know your shit inside and out on a multitude of subjects, AGW being one of them. I also realize that, over time, the best of us can get worn down and frazzled in trying to put info out here and debate it over and over and over; it can make a person go crazy.

But I also see that, while you're mostly correct on the history of racism and xenophobia in the American South, you seem bound and determined to beat us over the head and get combative, insulting other Lizards when you could be having a reasoned, rational discussion about. Maybe you should just walk away from the keyboard at times like this because getting butthurt sometimes isn't worth it, especially if you can be a bit more even-keeled about it all. As much as it pains me to say it because you are such a valuable resource to LGF, whenever you get like this, part of me wishes you stayed gone the last time you went gonzo, because life's too damn short for unnecessary drama.

We can disagree without being disagreeable.

213 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 12:51:26pm

re: #212 garhighway

We can disagree without being disagreeable.

Egg-xactly.

214 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:00:25pm

re: #210 talon_262

You know, I think that most of us here would agree that you're a very smart man and that you know your shit inside and out on a multitude of subjects, AGW being one of them. I also realize that, over time, the best of us can get worn down and frazzled in trying to put info out here and debate it over and over and over; it can make a person go crazy.

But I also see that, while you're mostly correct on the history of racism and xenophobia in the American South, you seem bound and determined to beat us over the head and get combative, insulting other Lizards when you could be having a reasoned, rational discussion about. Maybe you should just walk away from the keyboard at times like this because getting butthurt sometimes isn't worth it, especially if you can be a bit more even-keeled about it all. As much as it pains me to say it because you are such a valuable resource to LGF, whenever you get like this, part of me wishes you stayed gone the last time you went gonzo, because life's too damn short for unnecessary drama.

He's developed an unfortunate tendency recently (actually, he's developed a few) to take the kernel of a valid point, and then wrap it all up in so much ugly and drama that it repels everyone. He then lashes out at people when they fail to support his hyperbolic/disgustingly worded rants, accusing them of being at odds with that one valid kernel itself and not his gratuitous defilement of it. And then he also puts a lot of words into people's mouths - things they never said or even would say - and demands that they answer for them. Recently for example he has tried to insinuate that I am 'anti-Israel' and even - get this - anti-Scottish. I'm done speaking to him.

215 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:02:53pm

i didn't read all of this, but if anybody here is arguing that the south isn't far and away number one in racism, you're wrong. however, the people who are arguing that the tone of this is got out of line are correct.

216 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:14:59pm

re: #214 Jimmah

He's developed an unfortunate tendency recently (actually, he's developed a few) to take the kernel of a valid point, and then wrap it all up in so much ugly and drama that it repels everyone. He then lashes out at people when they fail to support his hyperbolic/disgustingly worded rants, accusing them of being at odds with that one valid kernel itself and not his gratuitous defilement of it. And then he also puts a lot of words into people's mouths - things they never said or even would say - and demands that they answer for them. Recently for example he has tried to insinuate that I am 'anti-Israel' and even - get this - anti-Scottish. I'm done speaking to him.

So, according to Ludwig, you're a "self-hating" Scot? That's rich...

217 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:15:06pm

Serious, non-snarky question:

How much industry in Alabama uses immigrant labor?

If it's anything like Kentucky this could shank a bunch of industries...if evenly applied. Cue one of those sick gut feelings where industries not only get a by, but can control their illegal workforce even tighter.

re: #181 SanFranciscoZionist

If you had the arms of Vishnu, wouldn't you be the bartender from heaven? Or, you know...where do Hindu deities hang out? Do they have some sort of Olympus-like set-up?

Svarga-lok, which sits above Mt. Meru.

218 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:18:27pm

re: #217 The Ghost of a Flea

Serious, non-snarky question:

How much industry in Alabama uses immigrant labor?

If it's anything like Kentucky this could shank a bunch of industries...if evenly applied. Cue one of those sick gut feelings where industries not only get a by, but can control their illegal workforce even tighter.

Svarga-lok, which sits above Mt. Meru.

Think construction, heavy industry and, most importantly, farm-related jobs (especially the poultry and meat industries, which are big business in AL).

219 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:24:42pm

re: #217 The Ghost of a Flea

Serious, non-snarky question:

How much industry in Alabama uses immigrant labor?

If it's anything like Kentucky this could shank a bunch of industries...if evenly applied. Cue one of those sick gut feelings where industries not only get a by, but can control their illegal workforce even tighter.

Svarga-lok, which sits above Mt. Meru.

Forget putting on a roof in 120 degree temperatures. All the really crappy construction jobs are mainstayed by legal and illegal immigrants. That's particularly true of the lower tier of 5-10 man companies.

220 Jimmah  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:28:11pm

re: #216 talon_262

So, according to Ludwig, you're a "self-hating" Scot? That's rich...

Yep - apparently I'm 'raping my culture' because of my ongoing failure to demand the return of the Stone of Scone on pain of all-out war. For a moment, I actually tried to think of a reasoned response, but in the end the best I could come up with was this:

Youtube Video
221 Jack Burton  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:30:59pm

re: #220 Jimmah

This would have been quicker and more to the point:

Youtube Video
222 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 1:38:30pm

re: #217 The Ghost of a Flea

Serious, non-snarky question:

How much industry in Alabama uses immigrant labor?

Quite a bit, fwiu. [Link: www.brookings.edu...]

Certainly, Alabama's absolute number of immigrants is small relative to states with long histories of immigration such as California, Texas and Florida. Nonetheless, Alabama ranks fifth in the rate of immigrant growth among all states this decade and, perhaps even more importantly, it ranks third behind North Dakota and Kentucky in its proportion of immigrants who arrived in the United States since 2000.

State level statistics, however, do not fully address what is happening in Alabama localities like Birmingham, Huntsville, Mobile and Albertville. Swift changes in these areas are evident in the workforce, schools, commercial corridors and neighborhoods and require adjustments from newcomers and long-established residents alike.

223 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 2:12:42pm

@ Everybody who responded:

Thanks for all the info...

ALA's the same shape as here in KY. There's a Tyson plant a few towns over where everyone just pretends not to notice the immigrant labor.

I worry that legislation like this won't impact immigrant labor use, but will create a situation akin to share-cropping/the company store.

224 mikec6666  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 2:51:02pm

white people in the south (i lived in SC and GA for 10 years) need some to hate -- they have a palpable feeling of inferiority -- they're taught that they are victims (of the rich, northerners, foreigners, etc.) and steeped in the ideology of fundamental christian faith, under which you can do anything to anyone as long as you couch it in terms of defending the faith

that's not to say there aren't good people down there...there are, damn good people, but damn too few of them

225 Mark Winter  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 4:29:40pm

The people of Alabama need to understand one thing. The more they go after "illegal" immigrants with laws like this, their own situation will become more dire. Immigrants will have to accept even lower wages than now, and this will of course push wages down in general.

By kicking those who are down already you are kicking yourselves even harder. Think about it.

226 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 4:31:41pm

re: #225 Mark Winter

The people of Alabama need to understand one thing. The more they go after "illegal" immigrants with laws like this, their own situation will become more dire. Immigrants will have to accept even lower wages than now, and this will of course push wages down in general.

By kicking those who are down already you are kicking yourselves even harder. Think about it.

Here in employer-friendly, right-to-work Alabama that's a feature, not a bug.

227 Mark Winter  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 4:43:41pm

"Knowingly transporting an illegal alien, even to a doctor, would become a crime under HB 56."

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

WOW

228 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 4:53:12pm

re: #227 Mark Winter

"Knowingly transporting an illegal alien, even to a doctor, would become a crime under HB 56."

[Link: www.aolnews.com...]

WOW

This directly threatens my wife's parish. The Archdiocese provides a van used to bring families that have no transport to church. Lawyer time.

229 Etaoin Shrdlu  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 5:02:54pm

re: #37 lawhawk

f. A foreign passport issued by a visa waiver country with the corresponding entry stamp and duration of stay annotation or an I-94W form.

I have never had my passport stamped when entering the US.

230 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 5:08:46pm

re: #229 Etaoin Shrdlu

I have never had my passport stamped when entering the US.

Then y'all better stay north of Nashville. (The US has agreements with some countries to mutually waive visa requirements.)

231 Mark Winter  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 5:36:21pm

re: #228 Decatur Deb

This directly threatens my wife's parish. The Archdiocese provides a van used to bring families that have no transport to church. Lawyer time.

This law will kill people

232 Mark Winter  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 5:54:28pm

I wonder why they forgot to forbid undocumented aliens to use park benches.

233 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:19:29pm

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

The feeling is becoming mutual, as you refuse to hear what people say, care what they feel, or learn what they might teach.

Yes, and that is a very sad thing. Ludwig is a great guy. And I want him to be open to learning.

234 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jun 9, 2011 11:23:59pm

re: #174 Charles

I hate it when Ludwig goes off the rails.
I still think he is a VERY valuable contributor to the site, and would ask for extra consideration before you block him.
In the end, your site, your wishes, and your rules.
LVQ, please make an effort to stay here.
You are doing a service on the global warming education.

235 RIRedinPA  Fri, Jun 10, 2011 11:41:23am

Seig heil!


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
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