Tony Perkins Explains the Social Conservative Litmus Test

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom
Wingnuts • Views: 29,793

As the Republican candidates for President prepare for tonight’s debate (at 8pm ET), CNN gives religious fanatic Tony Perkins a column to explain: Who social conservatives want for 2012.

There’s plenty of spinning, but Perkins eventually gets down to his real agenda; the ludicrous claim that “big government” can only be “fixed” by instituting repressive laws, and rolling back the social progress of the last 50 years. According to Perkins, all of America’s problems will magically vanish if the country simply embraces his brand of luddite fundamentalism.

White flags and “round toits” are unacceptable on the fundamental social issues of life — marriage, family and religious liberty. There is no room in the political parlor for those courting values voters if they are ambivalent about the sanctity of human life, and the bedrock institution of the natural family, an institution that is grounded in marriage between one man and one woman, and their capacity to transmit life to the next generation.

The right candidate will understand that big government doesn’t just happen. Big government and budget deficits are in part the natural outcome of government policies that foster a deficit of character.

Big government is what happens when family life fractures, when mothers avoid marriage, and fathers flee responsibility. The right candidate will understand that when the family decreases, government increases. Simply put, this candidate will recognize the fact that when the natural family is looked down upon — we will be forced to look up to big government.

The compatible candidate will not be distracted from the flirtations of political correctness that threaten to wreck our first freedoms. Anything short of an absolute commitment to defending the freedom of religion and speech will make the political match a non-starter.

Perkins’ definition of “religious freedom” is the exact opposite of what most people mean by the term. To Tony Perkins, “freedom of religion” means his freedom to oppress women and gays, and “freedom of speech” means his freedom to spew anti-gay hate speech. This is how the religious right has learned to disguise their bigotry; by reversing the terms in pure Orwellian fashion.

In 2001, by the way, Family Research Council leader Tony Perkins gave a speech to the openly white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens. And when Perkins worked for Senator Woody Jenkins, he purchased a phone-bank list from former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke.

But the Republican Party continues to genuflect in front of this “family values” hypocrite.

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253 comments
1 Targetpractice  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:28:17pm

Yes, they believe in small government, like the kind Iran and Saudi Arabia enjoy.

2 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:28:58pm

small in this case means small minded.

3 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:29:07pm

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom.

4 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:30:28pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom.

Hah! I think I'll steal that quip for the subheading.

5 BongCrodny  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:30:42pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom Bible.


Our interpretations differ only slightly.

6 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:30:57pm

an unmarried mother has no character, and therefore increases the size of govt....makes perfect sense

7 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:31:51pm

I'm a values voter. I'm not voting for any candidate who supports bigotry or racism, or who doesn't value the basic human rights of women, ethnic and religious minorities, and gays and lesbians.

8 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:34:41pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom vagina.

9 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:37:32pm

re: #8 Alouette

"Hello, I'm from the gov't, and I'm here to..."

Well, I'm sure you can figure out the rest.

10 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:40:06pm

re: #8 Alouette

But I don't have one of those.

11 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:40:13pm

re: #8 Alouette

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom vagina pituitary gland.

12 Interesting Times  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:41:50pm

re: #8 Alouette

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom vagina.

Here you go.

13 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:41:54pm

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But I don't have one of those.

Don't worry, I am sure you have an orifice that Perkins' government can fit in.

14 elizajane  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:41:59pm

"Values voters" my ass. Not my values.

You've got to admire their way of mobilizing labels and slogans, though. From "values voters" to "death panels" to "pro-life" to "guns don't kill people, people kill people," the Right is incredibly successful at getting quick, memorable words that push their message and put them onto a supposed moral high ground. The left are hapless as babes in comparison.

15 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:42:01pm

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But I don't have one of those.

don't worry, if you're male they will want to check your ass to make sure you aren't gay.

16 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:42:37pm

Charles:

To Tony Perkins, “religious freedom” means his freedom to oppress women and gays, and “freedom of speech” means his freedom to spew anti-gay hate speech.

Like all states rights conservatives, states rights means the right of state and local government to harass and suppress minorities of every stripe to the whims and desires of the majority.

And anyone who has anything to say about it is a socialist, and very French.

17 nines09  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:42:41pm

I keep looking for something positive from the GOP/TP and I think I'll be looking for a long, long, long time.

18 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:45:14pm

re: #17 nines09

I keep looking for something positive from the GOP/TP and I think I'll be looking for a long, long, long time.

well they positively hate gays...

they positively distrust (borderline hate) muslims...

they positively hate liberals...

they are positively bat shit insane...

19 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:45:26pm

re: #12 publicityStunted

Here you go.

Purple Comic Sans and everything!

20 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:45:35pm

re: #8 Alouette

A government so small, it fits in your bedroom vagina.

Ah, an Onion classic:

We Must Deploy Troops To Jessica Linden's Uterus Immediately

To protect America's interests, it is sometimes necessary to mobilize and deploy a military force. We now stand on the brink of such a time.

The tactical importance of Jessica Linden's uterus to national security is twofold: First, with its rich, fertile walls, this uterus is a vital source of future Americans. Second, the uterus is situated in an extremely strategic location, leaving it vulnerable to a hostile foreign power. This uterus must be given top priority by the Pentagon. Establishing a strong U.S. military presence in Jessica Linden's uterine region is by far the most sensible course of action.

21 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:46:18pm

re: #18 Dreggas

well they positively hate gays...

they positively distrust (borderline hate) muslims...

they positively hate liberals...

they are positively bat shit insane...

They don't positively hate Jews. On the contrary, they love them so much, they just want them to be "perfected"

22 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:47:08pm
Big government is what happens when family life fractures, when mothers avoid marriage, and fathers flee responsibility.

So, it was "family life fractures" that caused Big Government (I assume he means non-war-making Big Gov)? I thought Big Gov was hatched up by FDR and George Soros?

23 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:47:35pm

I am hoping the CNN questioner tonight takes up Santorum's desire to jail doctors who perform abortions in case of rape.

CNN debate twitter account just tweeted:

What would YOU ask the contenders in tonight's Republican Presidential Debate? Tweet us w/ #CNNdebate, and watch TONIGHT on CNN at 8ET.

Go for it.

24 Charleston Chew  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:48:41pm

re: #21 Alouette

They don't positively hate Jews. On the contrary, they love them so much, they just want them to be "perfected"

The love them the way Lennie loved rabbits in Of Mice And Men.

25 nines09  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:48:47pm

re: #18 Dreggas

well they positively hate gays...

they positively distrust (borderline hate) muslims...

they positively hate liberals...

they are positively bat shit insane...

They are positively bought and paid for also.

26 Winny Spencer  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:48:52pm

I wonder how well Herman "right of return" Cain will do tonight.

27 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:49:34pm

Big government is what happens when family life fractures, when mothers avoid marriage, and fathers flee responsibility

under normal circumstances, this kind of "thinking" would be submitted as evidence of a need for medical treatment

but these days, "normal" is considered a sectarian position and prima facie evidence of bias

28 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:49:41pm

re: #16 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

One further, "religious freedom" and states rights means I'm oppressed if the federal government does not let me run roughshod over whomever I please, like we got to do in the golden era before 1772, and after 1877.

This condition, to me, is statist communism and nazi socialist oppression. It's depriving poor little ME of my god-given right to be the natural sovereign of YOU.

29 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:49:50pm

re: #22 Bulworth

It's the Underpants Gnome model of logic:

1. Fracture 'Natural' Families
2. ???
3. Big Gov't

30 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:53:15pm

Damn but these mental midgets are going to be so crushed when they lose by a landslide in the next election. I wonder if they will double down again and get even more crazy? "The reason we lost was because our candidate didn't advocate the burning at the stake of Homos and the stoning of those accused of sex out of wedlock!"

The party betrayed us again by backing another RINO who was too much of a pussy to actually stand up for our 'Christian' family values!

Bye, bye Republican party... :(

31 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:54:02pm

Will Dr. Paul be making an appearance tonight?

32 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:56:06pm

re: #31 SpaceJesus

Will Dr. Paul be making an appearance tonight?

Yes! he will say something sensible, like we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then he will go off the deep end. Entertainment!

33 Winny Spencer  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:56:59pm

re: #32 aagcobb

Yes! he will say something sensible, like we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then he will go off the deep end. Entertainment!

Extreme isolationism is anything but sensible.

34 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:57:49pm

re: #23 freetoken

I am hoping the CNN questioner tonight takes up Santorum's desire to jail doctors who perform abortions in case of rape.

CNN debate twitter account just tweeted:

Go for it.

I think they'll likely get the traditional softball questions, provide non-answer answers, and then later whine about the "Gotcha Media Establishment".

35 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:58:48pm

re: #32 aagcobb

Yes! he will say something sensible, like we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then he will go off the deep end. Entertainment!

Excellent. I can't wait. I wonder what measures the GOP will take to keep him from challenging Romney for the nomination.

36 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:59:04pm

re: #33 Winny Spencer

Extreme isolationism is anything but sensible.

Getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan isn't an extreme position. Understand I think luap nor is crazy; but getting our military out of those two countries isn't.

37 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:59:47pm

re: #32 aagcobb

Yes! he will say something sensible, like we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then he will go off the deep end. Entertainment!

Yes--that's the Libertarians' most frustrating trait. The first statement is either sane or arguable, then they start selling timeshares in the Gulch.

38 kirkspencer  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:01:38pm

re: #30 ausador

Damn but these mental midgets are going to be so crushed when they lose by a landslide in the next election. I wonder if they will double down again and get even more crazy? "The reason we lost was because our candidate didn't advocate the burning at the stake of Homos and the stoning of those accused of sex out of wedlock!"

The party betrayed us again by backing another RINO who was too much of a pussy to actually stand up for our 'Christian' family values!

Bye, bye Republican party... :(

Looking at actual poll numbers, I think the traditional Republican sequence is in play. That is, regardless of sturm and drang the person elected will be "it's his turn". It's Romney's turn.

Now there are caveats. Romney is absolutely hated by the ~30% or so Tea Party fanatics; Romneycare, AGW, and Mormanism being the big drivers. And because the Republicans are using proportional instead of first past the post (winner take all) across the board this time, this strong minority might make a difference. Even so, Romney's got the money to outwait the loud but weak competition.

When (if) he gets the nod, I expect his numbers against Obama to be a reversal of Kerry vs Bush.

What this also means is that the zealots will have a strong platform for "we weren't PURE at HEART" arguments for 2016. I expect that race to be the big crash, for what it's worth, and that's my reasoning for why.

39 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:02:16pm

re: #32 aagcobb

Yes! he will say something sensible, like we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then he will go off the deep end. Entertainment!

I don't know what the deal is with Afghanistan any more, but in the case of Iraq, we deposed a dictator and dismantled it's gov't, so I see that as more of a "We broke it, we bought it" situation.

40 dragonfire1981  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:02:39pm

re: #9 Slumbering Behemoth

"Hello, I'm from the gov't, and I'm here to..."

Well, I'm sure you can figure out the rest.

"take away your freedoms and convert you to Christianity."

It's limited government alright:

Limited freedom of religion
Limited rights for women
Limited rights for gays
Limited rights for blacks.

You get the idean

41 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:03:02pm

re: #35 SpaceJesus

Excellent. I can't wait. I wonder what measures the GOP will take to keep him from challenging Romney for the nomination.

I don't think they have to take any. luap nor's followers are enthusiastic but limited in number; most GOPers aren't going to vote for a guy who wants to legalize drugs. Right now, I don't know who will emerge as the anti-Romney; Palin has the Right mesmerized by her continued flirtation with a run.

42 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:05:08pm

re: #38 kirkspencer

The GOP purposely made Huckabee back out so that the Huck can come out later unscathed and endorse Romney, thereby overcoming some of Romney's Mormonism with the religious right. At least I think.

43 makeitstop  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:05:20pm

re: #32 aagcobb

Yes! he will say something sensible, like we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan, then he will go off the deep DERP end. Entertainment!

FTFY.

44 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:06:12pm

re: #41 aagcobb


Paul is polling as 3rd most liked right now. If Palin doesn't run (which I don't think she will), that makes Paul the 2nd most popular real candidate.

45 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:06:13pm

re: #39 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know what the deal is with Afghanistan any more, but in the case of Iraq, we deposed a dictator and dismantled it's gov't, so I see that as more of a "We broke it, we bought it" situation.

We have paid and paid for that pig in a poke Bush bought for us. It seems to me that things have reached the point in Iraq where we can pull out without it going completely to Hell.

46 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:07:16pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

Paul is polling as 3rd most liked right now. If Palin doesn't run (which I don't think she will), that makes Paul the 2nd most popular real candidate.

Yeah I'm kinda hoping Paul wins it at this point. So much hilarity ahead.

47 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:08:04pm

re: #46 Alexzander

Yeah I'm kinda hoping Paul wins it at this point. So much hilarity ahead.

It has to happen. For comedy, it has to happen.

48 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:08:18pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

Also - thanks to Paul's popularity and massive fundraising ability, he will be impossible to exclude from the debates this time around. Although they did exclude the NM gov. Cant remember his name atm.

49 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:08:29pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

Paul is polling as 3rd most liked right now. If Palin doesn't run (which I don't think she will), that makes Paul the 2nd most popular real candidate.

But I don't think Paul has any upside. Once Palin finally ends her flirtation and drops out, I don't see her support going to Paul.

50 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:08:36pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

For the lulz.

51 leftynyc  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:08:46pm

re: #39 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't know what the deal is with Afghanistan any more, but in the case of Iraq, we deposed a dictator and dismantled it's gov't, so I see that as more of a "We broke it, we bought it" situation.

Not according to this republican who thinks the Iraqis should pay us for what we did:

Iraqi authorities asked for Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) to leave the country Saturday after he called for Baghdad to repay part of the money spent by the US since the 2003 invasion.

Rohrabacher's remarks at a news conference in Baghdad stood in stark contrast to those by senior US officials, who have pressed Iraqi officials to decide soon whether they want US troops to stay beyond a year-end withdrawal deadline.

"We called the US embassy yesterday [Friday], and we told them to ask the congressmen to leave Iraq," government spokesman Ali al Dabbagh said. "We don't want them here. What they said was inappropriate."

Read more: [Link: nation.foxnews.com...]

52 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:09:47pm

re: #48 Alexzander

Also - thanks to Paul's popularity and massive fundraising ability, he will be impossible to exclude from the debates this time around. Although they did exclude the NM gov. Cant remember his name atm.

Gary "I think brown people can immigrate to America too" Johnson won't be allowed at the debate? Aw. Surprise surprise.

53 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:10:05pm

re: #45 aagcobb

We have paid and paid for that pig in a poke Bush and Congress bought for us. It seems to me that things have reached the point in Iraq where we can pull out without it going completely to Hell.

FTFY, just sayin'. We're sticking around to help them deal with the fundamentalist terrorists. I'm sure there will be reductions in our military presence over the next few years, but I doubt that we'll ever leave completely.

54 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:10:41pm

re: #49 aagcobb

But I don't think Paul has any upside. Once Palin finally ends her flirtation and drops out, I don't see her support going to Paul.


Maybe you're right. I don't know the psychosis that Palin supporters have well enough to say what they will do.

55 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:11:04pm

I wonder what Palin's justification for not running is? She thinks highly of herself, quit her governor job to get more media attention, thinks the government in the hands of Obama, or any Democrat, spells the end for America, etc. What excuse will she offer her devout fanbase if and when she opts out?

56 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:11:57pm

re: #48 Alexzander

Also - thanks to Paul's popularity and massive fundraising ability, he will be impossible to exclude from the debates this time around. Although they did exclude the NM gov. Cant remember his name atm.

That's his main problem.

Gary Johnson. Nuttier than Ron Paul (or at least as nutty...)

57 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:12:10pm

re: #51 leftynyc

Ha!

58 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:12:35pm

re: #55 Bulworth

I wonder what Palin's justification for not running is? She thinks highly of herself, quit her governor job to get more media attention, thinks the government in the hands of Obama, or any Democrat, spells the end for America, etc. What excuse will she offer her devout fanbase if and when she opts out?

She doesn't want to put her family through another national race and the harassment of the lamestream media is always a good excuse.

59 makeitstop  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:12:42pm

re: #55 Bulworth

I wonder what Palin's justification for not running is? She thinks highly of herself, quit her governor job to get more media attention, thinks the government in the hands of Obama, or any Democrat, spells the end for America, etc. What excuse will she offer her devout fanbase if and when she opts out?

She can do more good for 'we the people' by not being president and hectoring from a Facebook and/or Twitter account.

I wish / but no

60 elizajane  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:12:49pm

re: #55 Bulworth

I wonder what Palin's justification for not running is? She thinks highly of herself, quit her governor job to get more media attention, thinks the government in the hands of Obama, or any Democrat, spells the end for America, etc. What excuse will she offer her devout fanbase if and when she opts out?

She has a convenient choice between "my family told me not to do it" and "God told me not to do it." Oh, and "Roger Ailes told me not to do it", but she won't choose that one.

61 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:13:21pm

Joe Farrah of WND wants to criminalize homosexuality Just Like murder and child molestation (links to WND)

Take a 5,000-year-old institution ordained by God that has worked all over the world and trash it because some group of sinful, prideful people with no real interest in marriage wants to use it to demonstrate they are "oppressed."

Keep in mind, it was the federal government that made all this inevitable with the Supreme Court case Lawrence v. Texas, in which it presumed to tell the people of that great republic they had no business enforcing laws against sodomy. Justice Antonin Scalia predicted in short order the ruling would open the door to something unimaginable a decade ago – same-sex marriage. He was right.

That's how sodomy moved from being a sin 10 years ago to being a "right."

It's not a right. It's a sin. And, in a civilized, self-governing society, when the majority of people ban sinful behavior – from murder, to theft, to adultery, to child molestation – they have the right and the duty to legislate against it. Courts have no business overruling the will of the people on such matters by dreaming up "rights" that are to be found nowhere in the Constitution, the Bible or the history of mankind.

It's just that simple.

And it's about time somebody said it.

62 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:14:26pm

I just swung by the stalker blog to see if they were discussing the debate tonight (whoops forgot they only stalk there). Rather than anything substantial, they are spending their time claiming that LGF's page counter is fraudulent. Most obvious case of needing a hobby I've ever seen in my life.

63 blueraven  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:14:28pm

re: #52 SpaceJesus

Gary "I think brown people can immigrate to America too" Johnson won't be allowed at the debate? Aw. Surprise surprise.

Whatever one thinks of Johnson, I dont understand why he has been banned from the debate. He was a twice elected Governor and has a right to be there. More serious than Newt, as a candidate I would surmise.

64 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:14:51pm

I see that Charles tweeted:

Ask Herman Cain about his statement that he'd require a special loyalty oath for Muslim appointees. #CNNdebate


and

Ask Rick Santorum about his statement that he'd criminally charge doctors who provide abortions to rape and incest victims.

Retweet.

Again I say unto you, Retweet, for the Kingdom of God Farah is nigh.

65 iossarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:15:00pm

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Joe Farrah of WND wants to criminalize homosexuality Just Like murder and child molestation (links to WND)

Ha ha ha, what a crazy outlier, thank fuck no-one in a mainstream political organization thinks like this.

66 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:15:27pm
Courts have no business overruling the will of the people on such matters by dreaming up "rights" that are to be found nowhere in the Constitution, the Bible or the history of mankind.

Wait, what?

67 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:15:48pm

re: #63 blueraven

Whatever one thinks of Johnson, I dont understand why he has been banned from the debate. He was a twice elected Governor and has a right to be there. More serious than Newt, as a candidate I would surmise.


Did you see him at the other debate a few weeks ago? He said he didn't care about abortion as an issue, and that building a border fence is a stupid idea. He makes too much sense for them, and isn't xenophobic or anti-woman enough.

68 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:15:57pm
And, in a civilized, self-governing society, when the majority of people ban sinful behavior – from murder, to theft, to adultery, to child molestation – they have the right and the duty to legislate against it.

Oh, I see the reichwing is back to favoring majority rights again. At least in this case. But what if a majority of a population doesn't vote to ban "sinful" behavior? What if instead they vote to allow "sinful" behavior?

69 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:16:39pm

re: #55 Bulworth

I wonder what Palin's justification for not running is?

Perhaps she thinks she can make more money on the outside?

70 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:16:44pm

re: #63 blueraven

Whatever one thinks of Johnson, I dont understand why he has been banned from the debate. He was a twice elected Governor and has a right to be there. More serious than Newt, as a candidate I would surmise.

His poll numbers were only good enough if you left out someone or other. And he's a crackpot, but obviously that's no object to participation.

71 iossarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:16:48pm

re: #68 Bulworth

Oh, I see the reichwing is back to favoring majority rights again. At least in this case. But what if a majority of a population doesn't vote to ban "sinful" behavior? What if instead they vote to allow "sinful" behavior?

Wingnut heads asplode. That's what happens.

72 Big Steve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:17:15pm

re: #62 Alexzander

I just swung by the stalker blog to see if they were discussing the debate tonight (whoops forgot they only stalk there). Rather than anything substantial, they are spending their time claiming that LGF's page counter is fraudulent. Most obvious case of needing a hobby I've ever seen in my life.

hum well that explains alot....given that I have incredibly witty and profound things to say here, it is clear that the Karma counter is fraudulent and I should have considerably more updings.

73 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:17:29pm

re: #63 blueraven

Whatever one thinks of Johnson, I dont understand why he has been banned from the debate. He was a twice elected Governor and has a right to be there. More serious than Newt, as a candidate I would surmise.

Newt has enough name recognition that he draws a few percent support; Johnson's support is non-existent, which I think is the excuse for excluding him.

74 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:17:44pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

Did you see him at the other debate a few weeks ago? He said he didn't care about abortion as an issue, and that building a border fence is a stupid idea. He makes too much sense for them, and isn't xenophobic or anti-woman enough.

I don't know whether he's personally xenophobic, but he doesn't mind hanging out with them.

75 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:18:10pm

re: #63 blueraven

Whatever one thinks of Johnson, I dont understand why he has been banned from the debate. He was a twice elected Governor and has a right to be there. More serious than Newt, as a candidate I would surmise.

I remember when I was preparing to go to New Mexico for grad school. More than a few people didn't realize New Mexico was a state. Our media might not either.

76 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:18:31pm

re: #68 Bulworth

Oh, I see the reichwing is back to favoring majority rights again. At least in this case. But what if a majority of a population doesn't vote to ban "sinful" behavior? What if instead they vote to allow "sinful" behavior?

Earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, etc. You know, the whole divine pallett of murder from an insane, bloodthirsty deity.

77 blueraven  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:19:41pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

Did you see him at the other debate a few weeks ago? He said he didn't care about abortion as an issue, and that building a border fence is a stupid idea. He makes too much sense for them, and isn't xenophobic or anti-woman enough.

Yes, I know he doesn't care much about social issues. But he is also about cutting most taxes to damn near zero. Wants to shrink govt...yada, yada, yada.

I just find it curious, why he is not allowed to debate. I mean Bachmann? She hasn't even declared and she is in. Its just weird.

78 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:19:43pm

re: #68 Bulworth

Oh, I see the reichwing is back to favoring majority rights again. At least in this case. But what if a majority of a population doesn't vote to ban "sinful" behavior? What if instead they vote to allow "sinful" behavior?

Then God smites us with tornados, droughts, and etc. until we do his will.

79 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:20:11pm

The Paul-bots are, as expected, really working over #CNNdebate. The Cain-bots can't keep up with them.

80 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:20:25pm
when the majority of people ban sinful behavior – from murder, to theft, to adultery, to child molestation – they have the right and the duty to legislate against it.

So, when a majority of people ban sinful behavior--through government legislation--that isn't Big Government? I can never keep this air-tight conservalogic straight.

81 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:20:38pm

re: #75 Bulworth

Some still do. When I go back home and say I study law at UNM, a couple people have asked me what the law is like in Mexico and how is it different from the US.

82 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:20:44pm

re: #69 freetoken

Perhaps she thinks she can make more money on the outside?

It is unquestionable that she can make more on the outside. Presidential salary is what, 400,000? Doesn't she make over a million just with FOX?

83 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:21:07pm
84 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:21:15pm

Spokesman's behind Perry's prayer rally states it is meant to convert people to Christianity.

during an interview with the AFA’s American Family Radio, The Response spokesman Eric Bearse said that the main objective of the prayer rally was to bring people to Christianity. Bearse, who was previously Rick Perry’s Director of Communications, claimed that people “regardless of their faith tradition or background” is invited to The Response to “seek out the living Christ” and feel the presence of Jesus:


"A lot of people want to criticize what we’re doing, as if we’re somehow being exclusive of other faiths. But anyone who comes to this solemn assembly regardless of their faith tradition or background, will feel the love, grace, and warmth of Jesus Christ in that assembly hall, in that arena. And that’s what we want to convey, that there’s acceptance and that there’s love and that there’s hope if people will seek out the living Christ. And that’s the message we want to spread on August 6th."

85 aagcobb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:21:40pm

re: #75 Bulworth

I remember when I was preparing to go to New Mexico for grad school. More than a few people didn't realize New Mexico was a state. Our media might not either.

I heard a story about someone from N.M. calling to buy tickets to one of the Olympic Games being held in the US, and the operator told him he had to call his nation's Olympic Committee for tickets.

86 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:22:22pm

re: #78 aagcobb

Then God smites us with tornados, droughts, and etc. until we do his will.

And then he smites us some more, forever, 'cuz that's just how he rolls.

87 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:22:35pm

re: #75 Bulworth

I remember when I was preparing to go to New Mexico for grad school. More than a few people didn't realize New Mexico was a state. Our media might not either.

What did you study in grad school?

88 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:22:39pm

re: #81 SpaceJesus

Some still do. When I go back home and say I study law at UNM, a couple people have asked me what the law is like in Mexico and how is it different from the US.

My friend who's a class behind you is going to Guanajuato for a few weeks, so he'll be able to answer that one.

89 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:22:46pm
But anyone who comes to this solemn assembly regardless of their faith tradition or background, will feel the love, grace, and warmth of Jesus Christ in that assembly hall, in that arena

That's an awful lot of touchy feely feeling stuff going on. Almost sounds like...empathy. And I thought conservatives hated empathy.

90 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:22:54pm

re: #77 blueraven

Yes, I know he doesn't care much about social issues. But he is also about cutting most taxes to damn near zero. Wants to shrink govt...yada, yada, yada.

I just find it curious, why he is not allowed to debate. I mean Bachmann? She hasn't even declared and she is in. Its just weird.


Bachmann's in there? Oh boy. And yeah, I think Johnson is bananas, but at least he doesn't have some of the nastier qualities of the typical GOP runner.

91 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:23:22pm

re: #87 Alexzander

What did you study in grad school?

Public Administration/Public Policy

92 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:24:20pm

re: #88 wrenchwench


Nice. I thought they were already down there? I keep seeing pictures posted of Guanjuato on facebook. The class behind me got to go to Cannes this summer too. Luckies.

93 Winny Spencer  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:25:07pm

Why won't they throw in Stossel's Obama impersonator too?

//

94 jvic  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:25:11pm

Perkins takes me back to what the "values conservatives" in the 1990s Gingrich House started saying after they were elected on small-government platforms.

Let's use Big Government to restore the natural family and create "ordered liberty" (huh?).

After which the State will wither away.

Got it.

95 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:25:16pm

re: #80 Bulworth

So, when a majority of people ban sinful behavior--through government legislation--that isn't Big Government? I can never keep this air-tight conservalogic straight.

Ok jot this down.

When the Republicans say it, it's from the mouth of God.

When the Democrats say it, it's from the mouth of the Devil.

That's all you need to know, sir.

Because Republican sex scandals like Ensign, Vitter, Haggard, Foley, Schwarzenegger, Sessions, Sanford, Craig don't count.

96 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:28:37pm
China Riots Enter Third Day

Rioters burned police and fire vehicles in a third day of unrest in southern China's manufacturing heartlands, witnesses have reported.

Hong Kong broadcasters reported that armed police fired teargas as they sought to disperse the crowd and detained at least a dozen demonstrators.

The clashes, which began on Friday after a fracas between security officers and a pregnant street vendor in Xintang, Guangdong province, highlight Chinese authorities' struggle to control social frustrations. It is thought that most protesters were migrant workers like the vendor.

97 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:28:45pm

re: #92 SpaceJesus

Nice. I thought they were already down there? I keep seeing pictures posted of Guanjuato on facebook. The class behind me got to go to Cannes this summer too. Luckies.

Yep. I lost track of time...

98 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:30:25pm

So let's say the theocrats succeed in turning this country into "The United States of Jesus". When we continue to experience natural disasters, what then? Do we finally reject this fictional character, or do we double down and start sacrificing virgins?

99 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:31:51pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

So let's say the theocrats succeed in turning this country into "The United States of Jesus". When we continue to experience natural disasters, what then? Do we finally reject this fictional character, or do we double down and start sacrificing virgins?

History says double down is the safer bet.

100 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:32:01pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

So let's say the theocrats succeed in turning this country into "The United States of Jesus". When we continue to experience natural disasters, what then? Do we finally reject this fictional character, or do we double down and start sacrificing virgins?

Whew... at least I'm safe!

Other than being Jewish you know.

Ok 1 outa 2 aint bad :p

101 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:32:53pm

Hehe... Charles' tweets have made it into the "top" tweet category at #CNNdebate .

102 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:33:17pm

The Paul-bots aren't going to like Charles...

103 blueraven  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:33:25pm

re: #90 SpaceJesus

Bachmann's in there? Oh boy. And yeah, I think Johnson is bananas, but at least he doesn't have some of the nastier qualities of the typical GOP runner.

Yep. She is in there.
Here is the line-up

Minnesota Representative Michele Bachmann, businessman Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Texas Representative Ron Paul, former Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty, former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney and former Pennsylvania Senator Rick Santorum, who officially announced his candidacy on Monday, have accepted invitations to appear.

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

104 Lidane  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:33:35pm

re: #7 aagcobb

I'm a values voter. I'm not voting for any candidate who supports bigotry or racism, or who doesn't value the basic human rights of women, ethnic and religious minorities, and gays and lesbians.

YES. THIS.

105 jvic  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:33:48pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

So let's say the theocrats succeed in turning this country into "The United States of Jesus". When we continue to experience natural disasters, what then? Do we finally reject this fictional character, or do we double down and start sacrificing virgins?

The theocrats split into two camps, each of which blames the other for offending Jesus and bring down the smiting.

106 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:34:49pm

re: #105 jvic

Splitters!

107 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:35:04pm

re: #100 marjoriemoon

Whew... at least I'm safe!

Other than being Jewish you know.

Ok 1 outa 2 aint bad :p

Well, you've limboed under the bar of sacrifice, but now you're in the expansive realm of "viable target for purge."

108 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:35:05pm

re: #90 SpaceJesus

Bachmann's in there? Oh boy. And yeah, I think Johnson is bananas, but at least he doesn't have some of the nastier qualities of the typical GOP runner.

Anybody who participates in something like the "Save America Convention" (last March) with Judge Andrew P. Napolitano, G. Edward Griffin, Tom Tancredo, Sheriff Richard Mack, Stewart Rhodes, and Joseph Farah, among others (DVD now available!) has enough of the nastier qualities to be indistinguishable, IMHO.

109 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:35:32pm

re: #101 freetoken

Hehe... Charles' tweets have made it into the "top" tweet category at #CNNdebate .

How cool is that!

Ok dumb question. I clicked on the list and then I saw the drop down that says TOP. That's how you see it, yes?

110 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:35:46pm

re: #107 The Ghost of a Flea

Well, you've limboed under the bar of sacrifice, but now you're in the expansive realm of "viable target for purge."

LOL

111 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:35:48pm

re: #100 marjoriemoon

Perhaps someone will offer a de-virginizing service.

112 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:37:27pm

re: #105 jvic

The theocrats split into two camps, each of which blames the other for offending Jesus and bring down the smiting.

I smell a scandal...

God Caught Backing Multiple GOP Candidates for President

113 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:39:04pm

re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth

Perhaps someone will offer a de-virginizing service.

Oh I think I'll pass!

Btw, I'm very angry at Michelle Bachman, I want you to know. I tweeted her recently, but she still hasn't sent me a photo of her penis.

114 jvic  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:39:21pm

I like what I've read about Gary Johnson so far. I'm not ready for a policy discussion--in fact I'm logging off for a time--, but I'd appreciate links to evidence (if any) that he is racist or antiSemitic.

115 Kronocide  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:39:39pm

I got a litmus test for conservatives Tony.

116 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:40:46pm

re: #114 jvic

I like what I've read about Gary Johnson so far. I'm not ready for a policy discussion--in fact I'm logging off for a time--, but I'd appreciate links to evidence (if any) that he is racist or antiSemitic.

See # 108, just above. Do some googling about the people he's hanging out with, and who he voted for in the 2008 presidential election.

117 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:40:50pm

re: #113 marjoriemoon

I think it's been retired.

118 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:40:56pm

re: #105 jvic

The theocrats split into two camps, each of which blames the other for offending Jesus and bring down the smiting.

I think it would look a lot like what went down with the USSR's Provisional Government of 1918. The only question is what conservative moiety would most effectively Bolshevik the others...

119 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:41:27pm

Lapin: Treating Animals Better Leads to Treating People Worse


The Bible provides guidance on certain fundamental principles of life. One of them is that there is a major difference between people and animals. Now this is so important that it’s covered right up in the beginning of the first few chapters of Genesis, we established that.

Look, it’s not an accident that some of the most brutal and cruel, demonic tyrants of history loved animals. It’s not an accident. It’s not an accident that Adolf Hitler was almost never seen without his dog, who he was petting constantly. Loved his dog! Well, what we understand is that there is a potential, it’s not going to happen to everybody, but there is a potential within a large society that if we obliterate the distinction between people and animals it’s not that people will start treating animals better, they’ll start treating people worse…

The reality is that the lives of most women are not as good today as they were years ago, they’re just not good. Now “oh they’ve got opportunities,” yeah they do, like they can get shot up and tortured in Iraq, and guess what-I’ve traveled, you’ve traveled. I mean how often does my heart break when I see a woman on a business trip frantically trying to calm her children over the telephone and tell them they should go to be with the sitter and she’ll be home after they’re asleep. That’s the woman who’d like to be with her kids if she could, but no--we really are making life tougher on people and all of this is of course consistent with the idea of promoting rights for animals

120 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:47:06pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lapin: Treating Animals Better Leads to Treating People Worse

Bullshit, with an extra layer of bullshit dredged from the midden heap of Hitler mythology.

There's not a culture on earth that doesn't form bonds with animals, and only a tiny few that don't keep pets. Anthropomorphism is a powerful part of what makes up empathetic and human. To make this kind of assertion is just monstrous.

121 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:47:56pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I call horse-shit.

122 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:48:18pm

Herman Cain wants you to know he's blacker than Obama

[Link: www.salon.com...]

Herman Cain was born in Memphis in 1945 -- when he says he's seen racism, he means he's really seen racism. When he says he doesn't see it in the Republican party, I also believe it, because he is a famous Black Conservative, and the GOP loves its famous black conservatives, and treats them very well. This video captures how very charming and likable Cain is, which is, obviously, a huge part of his appeal. The other part of his appeal is the fact that he'll tell anyone who'll listen that he's blacker than President Obama, and is also living proof that the conservative movement and the Tea Parties aren't racist. He literally tells his mostly-white audiences: "You are not racist!" You can imagine how much old white conservatives enjoy hearing that.

PPFFttt... there goes my coffee all over the screen.

Holy Moley!

123 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:49:31pm

Quick! Hurry! No time to lose! Get Ken Barnes on the line!!

124 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:49:59pm

re: #120 The Ghost of a Flea

Bullshit, with an extra layer of bullshit dredged from the midden heap of Hitler mythology.

There's not a culture on earth that doesn't form bonds with animals, and only a tiny few that don't keep pets. Anthropomorphism is a powerful part of what makes up empathetic and human. To make this kind of assertion is just monstrous.

Librules, just like Hitler, love dogs and cats and Hitler was teh gay as were all his SS and other buddies.

125 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:51:01pm
He literally tells his mostly-white audiences: "You are not racist!" You can imagine how much old white conservatives enjoy hearing that.

You betcha.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:51:03pm

Literary fiction question. I just started Stephen King's "Under the dome". The premise is a mysterious invisible dome appears over a town in main.

I swear I read a Science Fiction book 25 years ago that had similar domes, but, IIRC they were weapons. Does anybody know what book I'm talking about? It is driving me nuts.

The words "bobble dome" keep coming to mind, but the googler ain't helping.

127 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:51:26pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wow, he's really all over the place there.

The Bible provides guidance on certain fundamental principles of life. One of them is that there is a major difference between people and animals. Now this is so important that it’s covered right up in the beginning of the first few chapters of Genesis, we established that.

I guess his god flunked biology, then. What else would explain humans and chimps sharing 96% of the exact same DNA? He sure fucked that one up.

128 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:51:48pm

re: #109 marjoriemoon

yes

129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:53:52pm

re: #122 marjoriemoon

[Discussing how to counter Homer Stokes' campaign for governor]
Junior O'Daniel: We could hire our own midget, even shorter than his.

Pappy O'Daniel: Wouldn't we look like a bunch of Johnny-come-latelies, bragging on our own midget, doesn't matter how stumpy.

130 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:54:22pm
Aren't delivery zones the sorts of decisions [Cain] left up to individual franchise managers? And, also, what? He will only send our troops into safe neighborhoods? That sort of defeats the purpose of having an armed forces!

Good stuff.

131 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:55:00pm

New Sacha Baron Cohen movie out next year: The Dictator


The heroic story of a dictator who risks his life to ensure that democracy would never come to the country he so lovingly oppressed.
132 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:55:25pm
I guess his god flunked biology, then. What else would explain humans and chimps sharing 96% of the exact same DNA? He sure fucked that one up.

Biology is an atheist-muslim plot against America and the whole DNA thing is a hoax.

133 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:56:47pm

re: #131 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

New Sacha Baron Cohen movie out next year: The Dictator

A strange and perhaps brilliant take on Charlie Chapman's famous movie of the same name?

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:56:49pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Literary fiction question. I just started Stephen King's "Under the dome". The premise is a mysterious invisible dome appears over a town in main.

I swear I read a Science Fiction book 25 years ago that had similar domes, but, IIRC they were weapons. Does anybody know what book I'm talking about? It is driving me nuts.

The words "bobble dome" keep coming to mind, but the googler ain't helping.

Buckminster Fuller proposed domes which, if large enough, could fly their cities by generating bouyancy. Above a certain size, the weight of air displaced by heating is greater than that of the domed city. I loved the 60s.

135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:57:07pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Verner Vinge. The Peace War. 1984.

Sorry. Wiki finally dug me out of the hole.

136 zora  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:57:31pm

if these "crackpot christians" want to legislate sin. let's start with gluttony. that's something that could actually benefit america as a whole. oh i forgot, that would be socialism/

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:58:25pm

re: #133 Alexzander

One of the greatest movie speeches of all time was in the Chaplain movie. Moves me to watch it.

138 iossarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:59:09pm

re: #136 zora

if these "crackpot christians" want to legislate sin. let's start with gluttony. that's something that could actually benefit america as a whole. oh i forgot, that would be socialism/

Some sins are worse than others.

A handy to way of telling how bad a sin is, is to check whether straight white church-going Americans commit it. If they do, it isn't all that bad.

139 Alexzander  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:59:11pm

re: #137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

One of the greatest movie speeches of all time was in the Chaplain movie. Moves me to watch it.

Absolutely! I totally agree; one of the greatest movie speeches ever.

140 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:59:41pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

Buckminster Fuller proposed domes which, if large enough, could fly their cities by generating bouyancy. Above a certain size, the weight of air displaced by heating is greater than that of the domed city. I loved the 60s.

the guy that owns the house I live in was a student of Fuller...claims the guy was nearly a madman...too much brainpower

141 Bulworth  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:00:01pm

Maybe CNN could ask one of the GOP contenders this evening whether he or she thinks Medicare is equivalent to Big Government? Social Security? The Pentagon?

142 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:00:05pm

re: #139 Alexzander

I'm gonna link it. Hang on a sec.

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:00:42pm

re: #136 zora

if these "crackpot christians" want to legislate sin. let's start with gluttony. that's something that could actually benefit america as a whole. oh i forgot, that would be socialism/

That, and it would only serve to improve the health and longevity of evil atheists.

144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:01:02pm
145 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:01:19pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

Buckminster Fuller proposed domes which, if large enough, could fly their cities by generating bouyancy. Above a certain size, the weight of air displaced by heating is greater than that of the domed city. I loved the 60s.

Fifty years later. (Caution: video begins though unbidden.)

146 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:02:45pm

re: #140 albusteve

the guy that owns the house I live in was a student of Fuller...claims the guy was nearly a madman...too much brainpower

He was a repeated failure until in his 60s--near suicide. Then the times caught up with him. His dome for the Ford Pavilion was the first to exceed Brunelleschi's, done during the 1500's.

147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:03:01pm

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

As a Christian? I can admit that some of the finest people I have ever known worshiped Athie. Much finer than some of the "christians" that I've known.

148 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:04:08pm

re: #147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wouldn't know. I'm an adeist.
/

149 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:05:06pm

re: #147 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

As a Christian? I can admit that some of the finest people I have ever known worshiped Athie. Much finer than some of the "christians" that I've known.

Image: 34669572v2_225x225_Front.jpg

150 zora  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:05:26pm

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

those people have never been to a southern baptist church. there is some obvious weakness of the flesh that has nothing to do with sexuality. they should work on the planks in there own eyes before worrying about the gays.

151 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:06:37pm

re: #148 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't know. I'm an adeist.
/

I'm a nothingnist...I will not be defined

152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:07:30pm
153 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:08:20pm

re: #151 albusteve

I'm a nothingnist...

I think that puts you at odds with the naughtivists.

154 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:08:51pm

re: #153 Slumbering Behemoth

I think that puts you at odds with the naughtivists.

I hope so

155 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:09:05pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

Pimf: "15th century"

156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:12:17pm

re: #155 Decatur Deb

Really? You're going to correct that? No worries. Don't matter. Yer smart.

157 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:12:42pm

re: #154 albusteve

I wouldn't worry about it, anyhow. It's the Zedites and the Zilchers you have to watch out for. They're violently militant in their refusal to be defined.

158 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:13:38pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Maine.

Shit.

159 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:14:15pm

re: #157 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't worry about it, anyhow. It's the Zedites and the Zilchers you have to watch out for. They're violently militant in their refusal to be defined.

how about the amorphicists?

160 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:14:21pm

If you're not a twitter member yet, perhaps right now is the time to think about signing up, if for no other reason that in tonight's "debate" one of the giant (27 foot) screens which the audience/candidates will see will be showing live the CNN twitter tag feed:

#CNNdebate

There will be millions upon millions of retweets probably, but there is a chance to see some really good, pointed, poking of the candidates.

161 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:15:22pm

re: #157 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't worry about it, anyhow. It's the Zedites and the Zilchers you have to watch out for. They're violently militant in their refusal to be defined.

the fact that they all refuse definition defines them

162 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:15:30pm

re: #160 freetoken

Wow, that's a dumb idea on their part.

Get ready for a million tweets that say

FART! #CNNdebate

163 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:15:30pm

re: #156 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Fact-checking begins at home. Things from the 60s are a bit of a blur--as they should be.

164 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:15:33pm

re: #160 freetoken

If you're not a twitter member yet, perhaps right now is the time to think about signing up, if for no other reason that in tonight's "debate" one of the giant (27 foot) screens which the audience/candidates will see will be showing live the CNN twitter tag feed:

#CNNdebate

There will be millions upon millions of retweets probably, but there is a chance to see some really good, pointed, poking of the candidates.

i twitter not, neither do i tweet

165 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:15:55pm

Guests--BBL

166 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:16:01pm

re: #161 albusteve

As highschool students?

167 wrenchwench  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:16:18pm

re: #160 freetoken

If you're not a twitter member yet

Is that what it's called? That's almost enough to make me unsign up.

168 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:16:36pm

re: #160 freetoken

If you're not a twitter member yet, perhaps right now is the time to think about signing up, if for no other reason that in tonight's "debate" one of the giant (27 foot) screens which the audience/candidates will see will be showing live the CNN twitter tag feed:

#CNNdebate

There will be millions upon millions of retweets probably, but there is a chance to see some really good, pointed, poking of the candidates.

I'll take a pass on both twitter and the debates

169 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:16:50pm

re: #159 engineer dog

how about the amorphicists?

They're busy warring with the Nihilists.

170 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:16:58pm

Sounds like it's going to be an over-the-top-rope battle royal:

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

171 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:18:53pm

re: #167 wrenchwench

Ok, so you don't have to be a "member".

Rather, how about
"lover"?
"social media participant"?
"addict"?
"fan"?
"tweeter"?
"sculptor of the new world order"?
"mark"?

172 garhighway  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:19:07pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Literary fiction question. I just started Stephen King's "Under the dome". The premise is a mysterious invisible dome appears over a town in main.

I swear I read a Science Fiction book 25 years ago that had similar domes, but, IIRC they were weapons. Does anybody know what book I'm talking about? It is driving me nuts.

The words "bobble dome" keep coming to mind, but the googler ain't helping.

Joe Haldeman's the Forever War had such domes, but they weren't weapons.

173 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:19:32pm

re: #161 albusteve

the fact that they all refuse definition defines them

Indeed.

174 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:19:58pm

re: #171 freetoken

Ok, so you don't have to be a "member".

Rather, how about
"lover"?
"social media participant"?
"addict"?
"fan"?
"tweeter"?
"sculptor of the new world order"?
"mark"?

"Twit"

175 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:20:37pm

re: #174 Slumbering Behemoth

"Twit"

tweetite?

176 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:20:39pm

re: #174 Slumbering Behemoth

I tried to avoid that one, along with the past tense "twat".

177 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:21:04pm

It's great for lizards to start tweeting because other than following news sources, comedians and such, you have our whole community to share and interact with. It's super fun!

Am I being too cheerleader-y? For realz. You're all fairly intelligent semi-human droid-like beings. Give it a try!

178 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:21:51pm

re: #176 freetoken

I tried to avoid that one, along with the past tense "twat".

LOL my first tweet to my husband was "I'm glad to be your twat."

(we have a special relationship)

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:22:07pm

re: #172 garhighway

Thanks I figured it out. The Peace War; Vinge.

180 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:22:09pm

re: #172 garhighway

Joe Haldeman's the Forever War had such domes, but they weren't weapons.

Energy dampeners I believe, meaning that interstellar wars were decided by infantry wielding swords and spears.

181 wee fury  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:22:11pm

Tweeting is for the birds.

182 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:22:37pm

re: #181 wee fury

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:22:50pm

re: #177 marjoriemoon

I'm all about keeping my internet footprint ("webprint"?) small. This is the only place I participate. That may change one day, but not twoday.

184 allegro  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:23:15pm

re: #170 freetoken

Sounds like it's going to be an over-the-top-rope battle royal:

[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]

Holy moly, it sounds like it will be chaos. I may not last long.

185 Lidane  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:24:13pm

re: #127 Slumbering Behemoth

Wow, he's really all over the place there.

I guess his god flunked biology, then. What else would explain humans and chimps sharing 96% of the exact same DNA? He sure fucked that one up.

The key difference he's talking about is the belief that animals don't have souls, but humans do.

186 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:26:05pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm all about keeping my internet footprint ("webprint"?) small. This is the only place I participate. That may change one day, but not twoday.

My too, if that's surprising, but you don't have to put any info on there. Just the Big Sleepy is good and that's really about it.

I think you'd like it cuz you have an awesome sense of humor and think you'd like following the comedians around.

If you (or anyone) changes their mind, give me a head's up. I'd love to help you.

This is me
[Link: twitter.com...]

187 What, me worry?  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:26:47pm

Ok i'm out. catch ya'll later.

188 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:28:09pm

re: #184 allegro

An on top of all of that, it is all dressed in clashing blue and red.

Our eye-brain system does not like red and blue colors adjacent to each other. Try it- in a graphics program put up a full window of pure medium dark blue, and put a red square in the middle. Now look at the edge of that square. You'll probably see something like a jumping white line, as the eye-brain deals with the abrupt color change from blue to red.

That CNN stage would fit in some horror movie.

189 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:31:32pm

re: #188 freetoken

An on top of all of that, it is all dressed in clashing blue and red.

Our eye-brain system does not like red and blue colors adjacent to each other. Try it- in a graphics program put up a full window of pure medium dark blue, and put a red square in the middle. Now look at the edge of that square. You'll probably see something like a jumping white line, as the eye-brain deals with the abrupt color change from blue to red.

That CNN stage would fit in some horror movie.

CNN will only share the set with the contestants....don't for a second think that it's not about CNN...they will make themselves the centerpiece

190 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:40:06pm

re: #185 Lidane

The key difference he's talking about is the belief that animals don't have souls, but humans do.

Aw. :( I was having a good time mocking his piss poor understanding of science, and you had to come along and ruin it!
/

191 ProMayaLiberal  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:40:23pm

Off topic, but Lulzsec is ticking me off. I nearly want to call them cyber-terrorists.

192 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:41:20pm

re: #191 ProLifeLiberal

Off topic, but Lulzsec is ticking me off. I nearly want to call them cyber-terrorists.

Why nearly? They are.

193 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:41:56pm

re: #191 ProLifeLiberal

Off topic, but Lulzsec is ticking me off. I nearly want to call them cyber-terrorists.

What's Lulzsec, precious?

194 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:43:05pm

LulzSec Hacker Group Claims Attack On US Senate Website

On Monday, the group--known as Lulz Security--posted a configuration file for the Senate's main website on its homepage. The material in the file doesn't suggest sensitive information was breached, but it does indicate Lulz Security infiltrated the Senate's network.

"This is a small, just-for-kicks release of some internal data from Senate.gov," Lulz Security said in its release. "Is this an act of war, gentlemen?"

The group appeared to be referencing a recent Wall Street Journal article that reported the Pentagon considered some forms of computer sabotage constituted warfare.

195 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:44:39pm

re: #194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ah, thank you. Punk hackers.

re: #192 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Why nearly? They are.

Ayup. I agree.

196 ProMayaLiberal  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:50:29pm

re: #194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And now they made a massive mistake. The FBI will be looking for them.

197 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:50:53pm

LulzSec Hacks Porn Database, Uncovers .mil And .gov Logins


The group managed to hack adult website pron.com and nabbed the login information for more than 25,000 accounts. But this isn't the biggest part of the story; instead, the craziest bit is about who LulzSec discovered was logging into the site.

It turns out that a number of accounts on pron.com use .mil and .gov email addresses for login information.

198 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:51:20pm

Too Gay To Judge?

Another story covering the attack on judge Walker wrt Prop 8.

199 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:52:29pm

re: #198 freetoken

Too Gay To Judge?

Another story covering the attack on judge Walker wrt Prop 8.

So fucking idiotic.

Why is a gay judge more biased than a heterosexual judge on whether marriage should be reserved just for heterosexuals?

200 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:53:14pm

All the pressure must be getting to him?

Doomsayer Harold Camping Suffers Stroke

201 Lidane  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:54:08pm

re: #199 Obdicut

So fucking idiotic.

Why is a gay judge more biased than a heterosexual judge on whether marriage should be reserved just for heterosexuals?

Because he's a homosekshul, don'tcha know. We need a God-fearin' straight judge to get the law correct.

202 allegro  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:57:28pm

re: #199 Obdicut

So fucking idiotic.

Why is a gay judge more biased than a heterosexual judge on whether marriage should be reserved just for heterosexuals?

Cuz only straight white men are neutral. Default standard as it were by which everything else must be judged.

203 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:57:36pm

re: #199 Obdicut

So fucking idiotic.

Why is a gay judge more biased than a heterosexual judge on whether marriage should be reserved just for heterosexuals?

1. Spread teh ghey
2. ???
3. Profit.

So you see, he obviously stands to profit personally and financially from gay marriage, and therefore that creates a conflict of interests.

204 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:02:01pm

re: #202 allegro

Cuz only straight white men are neutral. Default standard as it were by which everything else must be judged.

Well, I am rather neutrally charged on the topic, but the dudes against doing the most complaining are quite negatively charged. Indeed, for them you could say the issue is incredibly polarizing.

205 Lidane  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:02:12pm

re: #203 Slumbering Behemoth

rSo you see, he obviously stands to profit personally and financially from gay marriage, and therefore that creates a conflict of interests.

So many straight people stand to profit from gay marriage I don't know why this angle isn't pushed harder. Hotels, casinos, travel agencies, the entire wedding industry, the entire divorce industry, etc. There's a mountain of money to be made and these religious bigots are too blinded by their idiocy to see it.

Full equality and full human rights means more people spending money on weddings. How hard is that to understand?

206 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:07:18pm

re: #205 Lidane

"For what is a country profited, if it shall gain the ghey money, and lose its own soul?"

- Tea 24:7

207 freetoken  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:09:01pm
208 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:14:50pm

Catch you good folk later.

209 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:16:49pm


“Keep in mind,” said Pawlenty, "we’re not proposing to cut taxes and raise spending. We’re proposing to cut taxes and cut spending, and if you do that we’re going to grow jobs by shrinking government. We’re going to grow the private sector by shrinking government.”

polenta campaign too broke to afford up-to-date bullshit, has to use 20 year old played out bullshit

210 Kid A  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:17:36pm

I think this what the freak show debate will look like tonight:

Image: GOP_debate.jpg

211 engineer cat  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:20:12pm

flavor guide to tonite's debate:

mitt - highly polished professional grade bland

pawlenty - even blander than that

newt - tastes bad, spit out. should know better than to taste amphibians, anyway

212 zora  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:22:28pm

Crazytown: Washington Times Yanks Post Suggesting Anthony Weiner Is A Secret Muslim

[Link: tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

213 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:31:50pm

The Soldier Who Gave Up on Assad to Protect Syria's People

The Syrian colonel sat cross-legged on a patch of moist soil, in a borrowed plaid shirt and pale green trousers, surrounded by dozens of men who had fled from the besieged northern Syrian city of Jisr al-Shughour to an orchard a few hundred meters from the Turkish border. He says his name is Hussein Harmoush, and shows TIME a laminated military ID card indicating that and his title. Everyone around calls him moqadam, the Arabic for his rank. A colonel with the 11th Armored Division of the army's 3rd Corps, the 22-year military veteran said he burnt his uniform in disgust more than a week ago, starting with the rank designated on his epaulettes, and then the rest of it.

"I defected from the Syrian Arab army and took responsibility for protecting civilians in Jisr al-Shughour," he says. "I was late in taking this decision." His lower lip quivers. He struggles to maintain his composure. After a long pause, and several deep breathes, the man with the thinning salt-and-pepper hair resumes: "I feel like I am responsible for the deaths of every single martyr in Syria."

There have been growing reports of Syrian military defections in recent weeks, after regime loyalists escalated their attacks in the northwest of the country. On June 5, units of the army reportedly defected en masse in Jisr al-Shughour, and used their weapons to defend unarmed protesters. Some 120 security personnel were killed in the mutinous clashes with loyalists, according to residents and rights activists, although Damascus denies a mutiny and says the deaths were at the hands of "armed gangs" wearing stolen military uniforms.

214 Kragar  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:39:17pm

Syria: hundreds flee scorched earth tactics of Assad regime

hundreds of unarmed local men were rounded up and arrested during the operation, and those who tried to flee shot.

The army moved into surrounding villages, making more arrests and burning crops, they said.

"Jisr is finished, it is razed," said one man, Abu Ali, as he left the town.

"Assad's men are killing anyone within the military, police or others who don't obey their orders blindly."

215 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:42:07pm

re: #211 engineer dog

It kind of blows my mind that Newt is even still showing

216 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:43:53pm

re: #199 Obdicut

So fucking idiotic.

Why is a gay judge more biased than a heterosexual judge on whether marriage should be reserved just for heterosexuals?

Bias is normally seen by the observer not the issuer of an opinion. If that were not the case anyone with an opinion could be called biased by default.

In this case it is conceivable that this judge just has a more realistic understanding of humanity; which some will of course call biased.

217 Henchman 25  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:45:25pm

re: #216 Naso Tang

Reality has a well known liberal bias!

218 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:48:04pm

re: #216 Naso Tang

in a terrilble besmirching of my liberal bona fides, but I gotta admit I kinda thought there was a reasonable case for recusal in that whole thing

219 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:48:09pm

re: #217 SteelPH

Liberalism has a well known reality bias.

220 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:51:51pm

re: #218 windsagio

in a terrilble besmirching of my liberal bona fides, but I gotta admit I kinda thought there was a reasonable case for recusal in that whole thing

There is the constitution to think of. To recuse would be a tacit admission that this is a matter of human rights not covered by the constitution. Seems to me it is better for the other side to make that argument.

Do you, for example, think that any judge outed as an atheist should recuse from any matters regarding religion?

221 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:56:09pm

re: #220 Naso Tang

touche' > And double bonus for not using the really obvious example of blacks. Not sure about 'outed' as an atheist, kinda implies its a group that's in hiding everywhere ;)

I'd actually tend to kind of think yes if it were really specific to atheism in particular. The problem of course being, we'd never have any cases that at all referenced christianity heard ever again.

222 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:59:40pm

re: #221 windsagio

What's your basis for recusal? I can't figure it out.

223 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:07:07pm

re: #221 windsagio

touche' > And double bonus for not using the really obvious example of blacks. Not sure about 'outed' as an atheist, kinda implies its a group that's in hiding everywhere ;)

Can you name any atheists who campaigned with that as a stated position, and won?

224 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:09:41pm

re: #222 Obdicut

What's your basis for recusal? I can't figure it out.

Argumentative as always, you are.

I agreed with you and thought I was helping your rhetorical question.

225 martinsmithy  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:10:21pm

"Freedom of speech and religion" under Tony Perkins would end the minute his hand-picked perfect candidate were elected.

It reminds me of what wags said the party slogan of the Islamist Algerian FIS party was as they won the militarily-annulled 1992 election - "One person, one vote, once."

226 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:10:26pm

re: #224 Naso Tang

What are you talking about? I can't figure out what his basis for recusal is, so I'm asking.

I do think you and I agree. I'm not sure what you mean by me being argumentative-- can you explain?

227 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:13:34pm

re: #226 Obdicut

What are you talking about? I can't figure out what his basis for recusal is, so I'm asking.

Perhaps I missed something. Did this judge recuse?

I do think you and I agree. I'm not sure what you mean by me being argumentative-- can you explain?

Answer the first point and the answer to the second will become very clear.

228 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:14:07pm

re: #222 Obdicut

'case that has a direct bearing on me'. Isn't that the whole point of recusal?

Seriously, I'm not terribly vested in the idea, just kind of a 'thing'.

229 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:14:12pm

re: #223 Naso Tang

To flip it around, can you show any that hid their religion in order to get elected office? I can't think of any cases of that being shown, regardless of the faith.

230 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:14:15pm

Excuse the poor formatting.

231 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:19:45pm

re: #228 windsagio

'case that has a direct bearing on me'. Isn't that the whole point of recusal?

Oh, no, not at all. Recusal is supposed to take place when the direct bearing would unduly influence, or where the judge can be shown to have already made up their mind on the case-- as when Scalia said a particular case was 'meritless' in an interview before it arrived at the Supreme Court.

I mean, otherwise, nobody who owned property of any sort could ever rule on any issue related to property ownership, and nobody who was a citizen could ever rule on issues related to citizenship.

It's always going to be a somewhat subjective area, but the conflict of interest has to be something that wouldn't exist for other judges. So, in cases involving religion, gayness, etc., everyone is going to have an attribute, be it straight, gay, religious, irreligious, etc.

232 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:20:32pm

re: #227 Naso Tang

I'm asking Windsagio on what basis he thinks that judges should recuse themselves.

Answering that question did not in the least explain why you're saying I'm begin argumentative, I'm afraid.

233 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:21:01pm

re: #229 windsagio

To flip it around, can you show any that hid their religion in order to get elected office? I can't think of any cases of that being shown, regardless of the faith.

No I can't, pretty much by definition since it was hidden.

However I have my opinions. For what it's worth I doubt very much that Bill Clinton believes in the big guy in the sky, but like all politicians there are some things that simply have to be done if election is on the to do list.

Obama did a few things and associated with a few people, for example, that I found quite disturbing at the time; not to mention most commentators on this blog then.

I have since come to think that there are evils and there are lesser evils.

234 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:23:06pm

re: #231 Obdicut

you make a pretty good point, I think this kind of thing comes down to 'gut feeling' for us laymen ><

235 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:24:18pm

re: #233 Naso Tang

I always read Clinton as 'lazy Christian' like the vast majority of Americans.

I'll agree to the point, this 'all of a sudden I'm a southern baptist' thing is really damn annoying. Also terrible, church founded on the promotion of slavery.

236 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:24:39pm

re: #234 windsagio

Yeah. And to me, the financial involvement is one of the clearest areas for recusal. His wife got paid-- and I believe still gets paid-- money to fight this law. He's said he discusses the case. It's very important that people can't simply buy off judges by buying off their spouses. I'm not alleging that this has happened, but that the ethics of the situation should result in Thomas recusing himself because of that problem.

237 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:24:57pm

re: #234 windsagio

you make a pretty good point, I think this kind of thing comes down to 'gut feeling' for us laymen ><

no it doesn't....going back a couple of threats til now Obdicut has made a simple concise argument and he's right....there is no gut feeling to it

238 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:25:33pm

re: #232 Obdicut

I'm asking Windsagio on what basis he thinks that judges should recuse themselves.

Answering that question did not in the least explain why you're saying I'm begin argumentative, I'm afraid.

You asked me. However, to dare to answer for Windsagio, he may be reconsidering.

As to argumentative, perhaps I should also reconsider my statement, and simply say I will try to be as literally precise as conceivably possible whenever responding to you in the future.

Not that I haven't already tried that.....

:=)

239 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:26:42pm

re: #238 Naso Tang

I really have no clue what you're talking about, dude.

I didn't ask you your basis for recusal. I asked Windsagio. Your basis seems similar to mine.

240 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:27:40pm

re: #235 windsagio

I always read Clinton as 'lazy Christian' like the vast majority of Americans.

I'll agree to the point, this 'all of a sudden I'm a southern baptist' thing is really damn annoying. Also terrible, church founded on the promotion of slavery.

Never fear. Romney is a Mormon. Know any black Mormons? Know why not?

241 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:28:32pm

re: #236 Obdicut

You know, 'financial gain' would be a good standard when you get right down to it, the best exception I can think of to that being Rhenquist recusing himself from Watergate.

242 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:29:11pm

re: #237 albusteve

not your best work steve :p

243 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:29:53pm

re: #241 windsagio

You know, 'financial gain' would be a good standard when you get right down to it, the best exception I can think of to that being Rhenquist recusing himself from Watergate.

it is a standard, that's why it was used

244 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:30:44pm

re: #241 windsagio

Financial gain or actually argued the case or judged the case already, whether in court or in making public statements about it, I'd say.

Which of course makes the senate confirmation stuff somewhat risible, since they're trying to get them to say "I'd rule this way" when the only appropriate answer is "I'd listen to the arguments and then make the decision".

245 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:31:22pm

re: #239 Obdicut

I really have no clue what you're talking about, dude.

I didn't ask you your basis for recusal. I asked Windsagio. Your basis seems similar to mine.

My apologies. Going back here I see that you did indeed ask that question of Windsagio, not me as I misread in my haste.

My mistake. Sorry.

(but I still think you are argumentative)

246 Obdicut  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:32:28pm

re: #245 Naso Tang

No problem, I was just severely confused.

247 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:32:35pm

re: #240 Naso Tang

I knew there were problems, but I didn't know it was to a '...and were also prohibited from participating in the temple Endowment and sealings, ordinances that the church teaches are necessary for the highest degree of salvation.' scale.

248 albusteve  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:33:09pm

re: #244 Obdicut

Financial gain or actually argued the case or judged the case already, whether in court or in making public statements about it, I'd say.

Which of course makes the senate confirmation stuff somewhat risible, since they're trying to get them to say "I'd rule this way" when the only appropriate answer is "I'd listen to the arguments and then make the decision".

SC hearings would be better called Dancing With The Senators

249 Achilles Tang  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:43:34pm

re: #247 windsagio

I knew there were problems, but I didn't know it was to a '...and were also prohibited from participating in the temple Endowment and sealings, ordinances that the church teaches are necessary for the highest degree of salvation.' scale.

The good thing about Mormons is that they have these 12 guys with a direct line to God, so if circumstances change (like the USA government back when telling them if they didn't drop polygamy all their land would be confiscated) all they need to do is have a meeting and say that God agreed that they should change.

Wouldn't it be nice if Islam had a similar system?//

250 windsagio  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:44:50pm

re: #249 Naso Tang

haha to be honest, I try to be cool about anybody's faith, but the LDS is one of the groups I try not to talk about ><

251 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:46:33pm

re: #122 marjoriemoon

Herman Cain wants you to know he's blacker than Obama

[Link: www.salon.com...]
He literally tells his mostly-white audiences: "You are not racist!" You can imagine how much old white conservatives enjoy hearing that.

Ah yes, ignorant white conservatives finally found this generation's Black person who will grant them the top symbolic badge of honor ever possible.

Big caveat: only they are dumb enough to believe him. It would be funny to hear any of his audience members in a conversation with this bunch of charmers

252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:56:16pm

re: #199 Obdicut

So fucking idiotic.

Why is a gay judge more biased than a heterosexual judge on whether marriage should be reserved just for heterosexuals?

Because, the only people with an objective point of view on gay rights are white conservative men.

In fact, those are the only people with an objective point of view on ANY topic! Don't you forget that, ever! You are oppressing their natural right to rule if you think otherwise!

253 Querent  Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:43:52pm

re: #119 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And another "What the Fucking Fuck??!!"


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