Pamela Geller’s Anti-Muslim Circus in Full Nuclear Meltdown

Vicious infighting among the Bigot Brigade
Wingnuts • Views: 42,936

The “anti-jihad” (read: “anti-Muslim”) blogosphere is in full nuclear meltdown today, after the shocking revelation that there are Nazis in the English Defence League.

Who knew?

Pamela “Shrieking Harpy” Geller and Robert Spencer are now under attack from the rest of the anti-Muslim gang, for posting a statement denouncing the EDL because they could no longer ignore the open antisemitism and connections to neo-Nazi groups among the leadership. The hard line elements in this coalition of bigots are demanding that Geller and Spencer apologize and grovel to the EDL, and Geller responds in her customary fashion with a blast of hatred and vitriol: LORD OF THE FLIES: MACHIAVELLI COMES TO THE BLOGOSPHERE!!! - Atlas Shrugs.

It needs to be pointed out that Geller’s claim to be surprised at the Nazis and extremists is pure bullshit. The history and nature of the EDL is no secret, and Pamela knew all along exactly who she was palling around with.

The EDL has tried to keep the thuggishness under wraps, but lately the thugs are getting restless and letting their racism and antisemitism spill out in public, more than usual. And Geller couldn’t ignore the antisemitism any longer, when one of the EDL’s leaders actually started quoting from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

But since the current chief of the EDL gang, Tommy Robinson, is whispering soothing words to Geller, she’s decided she’s going to continue supporting them anyway.

I did not want to write this post. But because the motives of the people in question are so nefarious, they must be exposed.

I am a longtime, original supporter of the English Defence League from the very first demo in 2009, before anyone would touch them with a ten-foot pole – even this group of keyboard warriors. No one in America has taken as much heat as I have for supporting the EDL. No one. My defense of the EDL is constantly used to defame me, and I have never faltered in my support of the group. When I speak at universities, I am routinely challenged about the EDL (an example is at minute 4:45 of this video). CAIR includes the EDL in every press release on me; the Southern Poverty Law Center uses it all the time. The Guardian, Newsweek, and the New York Times mentioned it in their articles about me. Notorious blogger Max Blumenthal at the Huffington Post have even gone so far as to call the EDL “Atlas’s Thugs.” And I never wavered.

From their first demo, when they were denounced and smeared as the scum of the earth, I knew the EDL was noble and true. I still believe that. I still believe that the majority of the membership are good and decent and fine people. The issue for some time has been certain elements in the administration. There will always be infiltrators and plants who get into the membership. But it is important to keep the admins clean.

The rest of Geller’s post is a vicious attack on Ned May, who uses the pseudonym “Baron Bodissey” at anti-Muslim blog “Gates of Vienna.”

It’s difficult to feel any sympathy for Geller’s predicament, when she and her crony Robert Spencer have been lying, smearing, and ridiculing me for years for documenting their increasingly open associations with these kinds of racist thugs. These two have been on a mission to destroy my reputation, so I feel a bit of schadenfruede at seeing them the targets of exactly the same kind of hatred and dishonesty from their erstwhile fellow travelers that they’ve been directing at me.

I certainly don’t expect them to ever admit I was right all along, so I’ll just put on some popcorn and enjoy watching their bigoted “movement” immolate itself in its own hatred.

Jump to bottom

225 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:52:12am

Ah, I found another reason for the counterjihad meltdown: Fjordman and Gates of Vienna have recently come out of the closet as full fledged antisemites...
When Treason Becomes The Norm: Why The Proposition Nation, Not Islam, Is Our Primary Enemy

Notice the article is cross posted at a blog called "A Jew among us" blaming Jews for the ills of the Western world. Also scroll down to the comments for the discussion of how Jewish multiculturalism is responsible of the decline of white culture.

2 Kragar  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:52:39am

YOU MEAN THE FASCISTS WERE ACTUALLY NEO-NAZIS??!!??

WHO KNEW?!?!
/

3 shutdown  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:54:16am

There is a disconnect in the vehemence and passion with which Geller defends the EDL's "soul". Why is this so important to her? WHy does she think the average reader of her blog cares about English nationalism, no matter how pure and benign? She needs to be forced, again and openly and in all clarity, to declare that her support for the EDL stems form a prototypically racist position, anti-Islamic sentiment. Once she has to give voice to this fact, he will have to acknowledge that racism is, in fact, a core value and touchstone of the EDL's mission. And where there is room for one racist sentiment, there is always room for more; especially when the root of the racism is jingoism and xenophobia.

4 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:55:51am

It's been a while since I've visited the counterjihad blogs. The antisemites seem very comfortable about coming out of the closet these days.

5 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:59:04am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

It's funny when they take that regretful tone, like, "Well, these weak-willed Jews just don't have what it takes, it's really a shame, I've got nothing against Jews but they're destroying the world with their liberalness".

Do they think anyone outside their circle of racism believes that shit?

6 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:01:50pm

re: #5 Obdicut

It's funny when they take that regretful tone, like, "Well, these weak-willed Jews just don't have what it takes, it's really a shame, I've got nothing against Jews but they're destroying the world with their liberalness".

Do they think anyone outside their circle of racism believes that shit?

I've seen David Duke use the same tactic. I guess they think their pity for the inferior races makes them appear thoughtful and concerned instead of hateful.

7 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:04:01pm

lol

8 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:04:46pm

Oh yeah, the Nazis in the EDL are just infiltrators, out to make this organization with its hyper-nationalist xenophobic platform look bad.

9 Jack Burton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:05:54pm

re: #5 Obdicut

It's funny when they take that regretful tone, like, "Well, these weak-willed Jews just don't have what it takes, it's really a shame, I've got nothing against Jews but they're destroying the world with their liberalness".

Do they think anyone outside their circle of racism believes that shit?

They are real life Concern Trolls.

10 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:07:41pm
No one in America has taken as much heat as I have for supporting the EDL. No one. My defense of the EDL is constantly used to defame me, and I have never faltered in my support of the group.

These words don't have the effect on me that she was striving for.

From their first demo, when they were denounced and smeared as the scum of the earth, I knew the EDL was noble and true. I still believe that. I still believe that the majority of the membership are good and decent and fine people. The issue for some time has been certain elements in the administration. There will always be infiltrators and plants who get into the membership. But it is important to keep the admins appearance clean.

Made it a little more honest.

11 shutdown  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:09:39pm

re: #10 wrenchwench

These words don't have the effect on me that she was striving for.

Made it a little more honest.

In more folksy parlance: Geller doesn't care how filthy the kitchen is, as long as the dining room is clean.

12 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:14:01pm

I think she's mentally deranged.

All of this has been about HER. Not what's right, not what's good for the Jewish people, not what's good for humanity. It's always been about getting her name and face in front of the cameras.

It’s difficult to feel any sympathy for Geller’s predicament, when she and her crony Robert Spencer have been lying, smearing, and ridiculing me for years...

and you shouldn't.

These two have been on a mission to destroy my reputation, so I feel a bit of schadenfruede at seeing them the targets of exactly the same kind of hatred and dishonesty from their fellow travelers that they’ve been directing at me.

Right behind ya, buddy.

Wasn't the Hitler/LGF video hers?

13 jaunte  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:16:36pm
"From their first demo, when they were denounced and smeared as the scum of the earth, I knew the EDL was noble and true. I still believe that. I still believe that the majority of the membership are good and decent and fine people. The issue for some time has been certain elements in the administration. There will always be infiltrators and plants who get into the membership. But it is important to keep the admins clean."


Infiltrators and Plants!

14 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:18:06pm

re: #11 imp_62

In more folksy parlance: Geller doesn't care how filthy the kitchen is, as long as the dining room is clean.

She also doesn't care if they don't serve Jews, as long as the cook beats his Muslim kitchen staff.

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:18:12pm

re: #13 jaunte

You mean like all those homosexuals who had infiltrated the National Socialist Workers' Party in Germany?

16 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:19:19pm

implosion....gasping for air buried under their own shitstorm...
a thing of beauty

17 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:19:23pm

re: #12 marjoriemoon

I think she's mentally deranged.

All of this has been about HER. Not what's right, not what's good for the Jewish people, not what's good for humanity. It's always been about getting her name and face in front of the cameras.

she's only doing what most conservative pundits do, she's no more crazy than Neil Boortz is, than Malkin, than Coulter, than Prager, they're all the same scum with slightly different candy coatings to manipulate different demographics

she just sounds more nutty and stupid because her writing is poor, she's more embarrassing and obvious about her rhetoric, doesn't do bigotry on the sly like Prager does, for instance

18 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:21:01pm

re: #17 WindUpBird

Her candy coating is melting.

19 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:21:44pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Notice the article is cross posted at a blog called "A Jew among us" blaming Jews for the ills of the Western world. Also scroll down to the comments for the discussion of how Jewish multiculturalism is responsible of the decline of white culture.

Funny, most Jewish people I know are white.

20 shutdown  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:21:49pm

re: #18 wrenchwench

Her candy coating is melting.

You're not allowed to say that. Because it should melt in your mouth and not in your hands, and we don't want to go there.

21 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:22:17pm

On a stylistic note, I really love the word Immolate...

22 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:22:22pm

re: #19 Dreggas

Funny, most Jewish people I know are white.


White = Aryan

23 Lidane  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:23:05pm

re: #3 imp_62

There is a disconnect in the vehemence and passion with which Geller defends the EDL's "soul". Why is this so important to her?

Because it's how she rationalizes aligning herself with neo-Nazis and white supremacists. That's why.

IF she defends their "soul" as noble, then maybe she can get people to look past the obvious swastika tattoos and racist thuggery of the EDL because in the end, they all hate Muslims. Or something.

24 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:23:10pm

re: #19 Dreggas

Funny, most Jewish people I know are white.

You'd be surprised how many don't consider them "white", no matter what pasty shade they may be.

25 Jack Burton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:23:41pm

re: #19 Dreggas

Funny, most Jewish people I know are white.

To them white = W.A.S.P.

Or they will say "Aryan" to which I love to reply: "Oh You mean Indians and Iranians?"

26 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:23:48pm

re: #22 ralphieboy

White = Aryan

Oh I get it, that is what white means to them. Then again I must be destroying white culture because I married a part black latina.

27 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:24:41pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

You'd be surprised how many don't consider them "white", no matter what pasty shade they may be.

I know. Which is what really gets me. Last I knew being Jewish was a cultural/religious identity that had little to nothing to do with skin color.

28 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:01pm

Apropos: What the hell is wrong with her blog? It's pretty much locking up my system for a minute or two each time I am trying to load a page of it in Firefox.

29 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:08pm

re: #26 Dreggas

Oh I get it, that is what white means to them. Then again I must be destroying white culture because I married a part black latina.

yes, you are a traitor to your blood

/

30 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:14pm

re: #26 Dreggas

Oh I get it, that is what white means to them. Then again I must be destroying white culture because I married a part black latina.

When (or if) the two of you reproduce, there will be a cultural Apocalypse.

31 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:17pm

re: #26 Dreggas

Oh I get it, that is what white means to them. Then again I must be destroying white culture because I married a part black latina.

And I guess my part-Cherokee hubby & daughter just have no hope -

32 Lidane  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:31pm

re: #28 000G

Apropos: What the hell is wrong with her blog? It's pretty much locking up my system for a minute or two each time I am trying to load a page of it in Firefox.

Firefox is trying to reject the fail.

33 aagcobb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:35pm

re: #26 Dreggas

If you are Aryan, then they would consider you a traitor. Literally (just read the link provided to the post at the Gates of Vienna).

34 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:43pm

re: #31 reine.de.tout

And I guess my part-Cherokee hubby & daughter just have no hope -

And OMG, they're icky CATHOLICS as well.
Gah.

35 shutdown  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:25:52pm

re: #23 Lidane

I agree; that question was part of the post's hypothesis - I never enter a debate without some dialectic idea of where I am going...
Woohoo for classical education!
:)

36 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:26:14pm

re: #33 aagcobb

I know about the Aryans. I was being more tongue in cheek than anything else.

37 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:26:27pm

re: #25 ArchangelMichael

To them white = W.A.S.P.

Or they will say "Aryan" to which I love to reply: "Oh You mean Indians and Iranians?"

We WIC'Ds (White Irish-Catholic Democrats) are down with that.

38 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:28:11pm

O/T but had to post this quote:

Marco Rubio:

“Talking about corporate jets and oil companies,” Rubio says, missed the point. “Everybody here agrees that our tax code is broken,” he says, and he is open to discussing tax reform. “But don’t go around telling people that the reason you are not doing well is because some rich guy is in a corporate jet or some oil company is making too much money.”

More here

39 aagcobb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:28:49pm

What gets me is that Geller must know that the EDL does not believe Jews can be English and would expell them (at best) if they had the chance. Just how blinded by hatred does she have to be to get in bed with this filth?

40 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:28:55pm

I haven't looked at the hate site Gates of Vienna in ages, Jesus H. Christ

[Link: gatesofvienna.blogspot.com...]

On the last day of the conference, I had dinner with chapter leaders from Michigan and Texas. We decided on an Indian restaurant near the hotel: “Rajaji Curry House” on Connecticut Avenue. The still ongoing happy hour and the mouth-watering menu made our decision to spend the evening in this restaurant particularly easy. As we sat down, we immediately ordered our drinks and some appetizers while perusing the menu in detail. The menu did indeed promise good food. However, while the others chatted I took a closer look at the menu and imagine my shock and horror when — on the very last page and in fine print — the menu read: “We serve halal food.

I cried out: “Sorry, you guys, but we have to get out of here! I cannot eat halal food. I am leaving. Now.”

41 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:29:07pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Didn't you also find some evidence of Geller/Spencer "distancing" themselves from VB & Wilders?

42 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:30:10pm

re: #17 WindUpBird

she's only doing what most conservative pundits do, she's no more crazy than Neil Boortz is, than Malkin, than Coulter, than Prager, they're all the same scum with slightly different candy coatings to manipulate different demographics

she just sounds more nutty and stupid because her writing is poor, she's more embarrassing and obvious about her rhetoric, doesn't do bigotry on the sly like Prager does, for instance

I'm not willing to blow her off so completely.

I agree that she and Malkin are in the same boat, but I also see Malkin as another screaming racist who tried to justify rounding up Muslims and putting them in camps. Coulter's books (although awful) are political, but I don't believe racist.

Geller is being eaten by her own ego. She knows everyone in the world has been calling her a racist. She admits it in that little diatribe, but does she say, "I'm sorry" or "I was wrong"? No, she continues to defend the racists.

She thinks the EDL was "hijacked". She doesn't see the inherent problem in it.

She'll end up in another anti-Muslim, pro-white/Euro group and see the exact same thing. Maybe one THAT day, she'll get down on her knees and beg forgiveness, but this is not that day.

43 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:32:26pm

re: #42 marjoriemoon

Coulter's books (although awful) are political, but I don't believe racist.

Yeah, Coulter's antijudaism is strictly religious:

44 aagcobb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:35:09pm

re: #43 000G

Just like Torquemada./

45 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:35:51pm

re: #43 000G

Yeah, Coulter's antijudaism is strictly religious:

[Video]

Look, I'm not going to argue who is the bigger moron. I think they're all disgusting.

Lots of Christians, maybe the entire religion believes what Coulter said. You think they're all racists?

When a woman does what Geller did at the NY Mosque (was Coulter there?) that is racism, plain and simple.

46 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:37:37pm

Well there was the Conservative Committee thing....

47 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:37:56pm

re: #43 000G

Yeah, Coulter's antijudaism is strictly religious:

[Video]


Funny, because Muslims see their religion as the "perfection" of Christianity, so she just wants to do to the Jews what they wanna do to us.

Whereas the poor Jews just wanna be left alone...

48 Kragar  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:37:58pm

re: #40 SpaceJesus

I haven't looked at the hate site Gates of Vienna in ages, Jesus H. Christ

[Link: gatesofvienna.blogspot.com...]

What a dipshit.

49 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:38:00pm

Ugh... You might be a racist if..... ??

50 recusancy  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:40:14pm
51 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:40:48pm

re: #45 marjoriemoon

Lots of Christians, maybe the entire religion believes what Coulter said. You think they're all racists?

First of all, I do not think the entirety of Christianity is antijudaic. Second, I do not think you have to be a racist to be anti-jewish; Coulter's dominionist supersessionism is living proof of that.

52 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:41:30pm

re: #42 marjoriemoon

"Ethnic profiling is the only reasonable security measure that has been thwarted in the war on terrorism." -Ann Coulter

"I think there should be a literacy test and a poll tax for people to vote." -Ann Coulter

53 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:42:58pm

re: #48 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What a dipshit.


How DARE America be a free multi-ethnic place.

54 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:43:01pm

re: #50 recusancy

"Libertarian" has become, for me, just a euphemism for "anarchist".

55 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:43:17pm

re: #50 recusancy

NPR went to libertarian summer camp.

Do they play 'Cowboys and Looters'?

56 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:43:35pm

re: #47 ralphieboy

Funny, because Muslims see their religion as the "perfection" of Christianity, so she just wants to do to the Jews what they wanna do to us.

Which is why I am unnerved by religions that require their adherents to proselytize. If you want to convert someone to a religion, you should just lead by example and live it instead of getting on people's nerves, belittle them, bully them, coerce them or invade them.

57 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:44:40pm

re: #52 goddamnedfrank

"Ethnic profiling is the only reasonable security measure that has been thwarted in the war on terrorism." -Ann Coulter

"I think there should be a literacy test and a poll tax for people to vote." -Ann Coulter

Oh yeah, thanks for that. I was a little irritated by the "Coulter's not racist" idea, but couldn't remember why.

58 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:45:12pm

Because some people are so fucking stupid that only 66 years has to pass since the worlds worst racially/religiously motivated Genocide ever occurred to start advocating it's repetition.

Really 14 million people spread across the entire world are a threat? There are actually more people who identify as Jewish in the United States then there is in Israel, but the populations elsewhere are laughably negligible, including in the U.K.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The EDL feels threatened by a mere 350,000 Jews? Less than .06% of the population of the U.K.? There is no legitimate justification, the long standing English class system means that a Jew stands almost no chance of being involved in government or banking, so how is it that they are threatening to take control of the Government, banking, and the media?

This is nothing but an attempt to define a scapegoat for those who want someone else to blame for their own failings...what else is new?

59 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:46:19pm

re: #54 freetoken


i think there's two groups.

1. paranoid conspiracy anarchists

2. white middle class males who would otherwise be conservative but for the fact that they want weed to be legal because they get high.

60 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:46:40pm

re: #51 000G

First of all, I do not think the entirety of Christianity is antijudaic. Second, I do not think you have to be a racist to be anti-jewish; Coulter's dominionist supersessionism is living proof of that.

I've heard those words from Christians my whole life (the perfection thing). Most Christianity is anti-Judaic as you put it although I'm not so comfortable with the term, but I think I get your meaning. Anyway, they have to be. How do you accept Jesus as Lord and not be.

Coulter has made some nasty anti-Muslim comments. She's not golden, but I tend to put Geller in a worse category. Maybe because she's Jewish, she should know better. She should have known better to join the EDL, but her ego got the better of her.

61 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:47:23pm

re: #59 SpaceJesus

i think there's two groups.

1. paranoid conspiracy anarchists

2. white middle class males who would otherwise be conservative but for the fact that they want weed to be legal because they get high.

A high conservative is a waste of good weed.

62 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:48:14pm

re: #53 SpaceJesus

How DARE America be a free multi-ethnic place.

THEY WERE RAMMING THE HALAL DOWN MY THROAT… well, not literally, I mean, nobody made me order or eat anything I did not want and there was plenty of non-halal food, too, but… DHIMMITUDE! MULTI-CULTURALIST APPEASERS!

63 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:48:29pm

re: #62 000G

/

:P

64 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:49:27pm

re: #62 000G

they skipped out on the bill for their food, too. that is, honestly, something i would expect hitler to do as well.

65 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:51:41pm

re: #60 marjoriemoon

I've heard those words from Christians my whole life (the perfection thing). Most Christianity is anti-Judaic as you put it although I'm not so comfortable with the term, but I think I get your meaning. Anyway, they have to be. How do you accept Jesus as Lord and not be.

Are you saying that the Christians who accept Jews as Jews and do not see them merely as unperfected are not real Christians?

66 Kragar  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:51:45pm

re: #53 SpaceJesus

How DARE America be a free multi-ethnic place.

I thought it was a delicious tasty meal. No one told me it was Muslim. TO THE VOMITORIUM FORTHWITH!

67 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:53:06pm

re: #60 marjoriemoon

I've heard those words from Christians my whole life (the perfection thing). Most Christianity is anti-Judaic as you put it although I'm not so comfortable with the term, but I think I get your meaning. Anyway, they have to be. How do you accept Jesus as Lord and not be.

Coulter has made some nasty anti-Muslim comments. She's not golden, but I tend to put Geller in a worse category. Maybe because she's Jewish, she should know better. She should have known better to join the EDL, but her ego got the better of her.

Anti-judaic is a useful distinction. It means that a baptized convert would retain no trace of 'otherness'. If a Christian maintained any distance from the convert, he would also be anti-semitic.

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:53:42pm

re: #65 000G

Are you saying that the Christians who accept Jews as Jews and do not see them merely as unperfected are not real Christians?

some christians would insist on that

69 Cankles McCellulite  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:56:36pm

re: #50 recusancy

"

We'll regulate him," he says. "If he poisons me, I won't buy his food. And he'll be done."


Best quote from the article. lol.
"And iffin' he gives my childrens that ecoli or bird flu and they die we just string em' up!"

70 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:57:51pm

re: #57 000G

Oh yeah, thanks for that. I was a little irritated by the "Coulter's not racist" idea, but couldn't remember why.

Geller and Spencer are out there, participating in anti-Muslims events. I don't think Coulter wrote a racist book (like Malkin) and I don't think Coulter has attended racist events like Geller and Spencer.

Christ, I'm not defending the putrid woman that Ann Coulter is, but Geller is worse. Does that make it any clearer?

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:58:09pm

re: #59 SpaceJesus

i think there's two groups.

1. paranoid conspiracy anarchists

2. white middle class males who would otherwise be conservative but for the fact that they want weed to be legal because they get high.

you forgot "grouchy lonely IT geeks"

look at all the tech guys making the maximum donation to Ron Paul, TONS of them

72 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:58:26pm

re: #40 SpaceJesus

I haven't looked at the hate site Gates of Vienna in ages, Jesus H. Christ

[Link: gatesofvienna.blogspot.com...]

I cried out: “Sorry, you guys, but we have to get out of here! I cannot eat halal food. I am leaving. Now.”

I wonder if we should remind them about all the non-meat food & drink that's naturally halal as is, like water, coffee, tea, soda, fruit, veggies, eggs, fish...

73 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:58:58pm

re: #65 000G

Are you saying that the Christians who accept Jews as Jews and do not see them merely as unperfected are not real Christians?

Go ahead, put words in my mouth. I never said any such thing, but I see YOU have.

74 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 12:59:18pm

re: #73 marjoriemoon

Go ahead, put words in my mouth. I never said any such thing, but I see YOU have.

I was asking you an honest question.

75 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:01:42pm

re: #74 000G

I was asking you an honest question.

I am in no way qualified to make a decision who is a real Christian and who is not. I don't understand Christianity, nor do I have any desire to. As long as they treat other people well, I don't really care what they think.

76 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:03:24pm

re: #75 marjoriemoon

I am in no way qualified to make a decision who is a real Christian and who is not. I don't understand Christianity, nor do I have any desire to. As long as they treat other people well, I don't really care what they think.

For reference, this is what you said:

I've heard those words from Christians my whole life (the perfection thing). Most Christianity is anti-Judaic as you put it although I'm not so comfortable with the term, but I think I get your meaning. Anyway, they have to be. How do you accept Jesus as Lord and not be.

You say most Christianity is anti-judaic in the sense that they want Jews to be perfected – i.e. not accept them as Jews – and that if Christians accept Jesus as Lord they have to be that way – making the conclusion inevitable that those Christians who accept Jews as Jews are somehow in violation to their own core principles (a conclusion, btw, that i do not agree with because I think the premises are false, but that's another issue). You say you do not understand Christianity – but then how can you say what they have to be like?

77 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:03:54pm

re: #67 Decatur Deb

Anti-judaic is a useful distinction. It means that a baptized convert would retain no trace of 'otherness'. If a Christian maintained any distance from the convert, he would also be anti-semitic.

I don't think I'm following you. Maybe you should define "anti-Judaic." Or is that just mean "doesn't agree with Judaism."

78 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:04:36pm

re: #77 marjoriemoon

I don't think I'm following you. Maybe you should define "anti-Judaic." Or is that just mean "doesn't agree with Judaism."

It's a rather well-defined term: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

79 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:05:56pm

re: #71 WindUpBird

Ah true. The people who are so detached from human interaction that they forget there is this thing called a society that we all live in.

80 recusancy  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:05:59pm

Anybody here have a google+ invite available by chance??

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:07:48pm

re: #60 marjoriemoon

I've heard those words from Christians my whole life (the perfection thing). Most Christianity is anti-Judaic as you put it although I'm not so comfortable with the term, but I think I get your meaning. Anyway, they have to be. How do you accept Jesus as Lord and not be.

Coulter has made some nasty anti-Muslim comments. She's not golden, but I tend to put Geller in a worse category. Maybe because she's Jewish, she should know better. She should have known better to join the EDL, but her ego got the better of her.

Coulter's demographic is different, she's an author who has a larger television presence, she has book deals, she has a bigger industry pushing her schtick. she'd lose power by repeating Geller's rhetoric, she'd harm her persona

The instant Coulter were to gain power by espousing the same extreme rhetoric as Geller, she'd do it, don't even worry about it.

And the instant Geller were to gain power by tossing aside the EDL and going "legit" and embracing a more mainstream GOP message like Limbaugh, she'd do that.

Simple math, unbelievably simple. We're looking at the people behind the rhetoric. The rhetoric is the game. They're all equally scummy, they just have different chess moves they have to make in media to make money, increase their personas and get their messages out, different arrays of pieces.

82 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:07:58pm

re: #76 000G

For reference, this is what you said:

You say most Christianity is anti-judaic in the sense that they want Jews to be perfected – i.e. not accept them as Jews – and that if Christians accept Jesus as Lord they have to be that way – making the conclusion inevitable that those Christians who accept Jews as Jews are somehow in violation to their own core principles (a conclusion, btw, that i do not agree with because I think the premises are false, but that's another issue). You say you do not understand Christianity – but then how can you say what they have to be like?

No, excuse me YOU used the term "anti-Judaic". I have never heard of it before this very second.

I assume you mean, "doesn't follow Judaism" as opposed to being against Jews because they're Jews.

Christians accept Jesus as Lord. Jews only have 1 God, so in my mind, it would be inherent in the belief to feel that Jews do not have it right. And I have heard many times that the New Testament finishes the Old One which is saying that Christianity has perfected Judaism (just in a nicer sort of way).

83 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:08:34pm

re: #77 marjoriemoon

I don't think I'm following you. Maybe you should define "anti-Judaic." Or is that just mean "doesn't agree with Judaism."

Never heard of it until a dozen comments ago. What I'm using it for here is the distinction between someone who has a well-meaning religious mission to share (his) truth, and someone who has problems not only with Jewish theology, but with Jews as an ethnic group.

84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:08:35pm

re: #79 SpaceJesus

Ah true. The people who are so detached from human interaction that they forget there is this thing called a society that we all live in.

yes!

I bet Bud K has every one of those guys on their mailing list :D

85 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:09:13pm

Portugal drug law show results ten years on, experts say

Health experts in Portugal said Friday that Portugal's decision 10 years ago to decriminalise drug use and treat addicts rather than punishing them is an experiment that has worked.

"There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.

[...]

Other factors had also played their part however, Goulao, a medical doctor added.

"This development can not only be attributed to decriminalisation but to a confluence of treatment and risk reduction policies."

Portugal's holistic approach had also led to a "spectacular" reduction in the number of infections among intravenous users and a significant drop in drug-related crimes, he added.

A law that became active on July 1, 2001 did not legalise drug use, but forced users caught with banned substances to appear in front of special addiction panels rather than in a criminal court.

The panels composed of psychologists, judges and social workers recommended action based on the specifics of each case.

Since then, government panels have recommended a response based largely on whether the individual is an occasional drug user or an addict.

Of the nearly 40,000 people currently being treated, "the vast majority of problematic users are today supported by a system that does not treat them as delinquents but as sick people," Goulao said.

[...]

"The changes that were made in Portugal provide an interesting before-and-after study on the possible effects of decriminalisation," EMCDDA said.

I think it's pretty straightforward - people addicted to drugs are in a self-destructive mode and helping them out of it makes a whole lot more sense than locking them up somewhere.

86 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:11:21pm

re: #82 marjoriemoon

No, excuse me YOU used the term "anti-Judaic". I have never heard of it before this very second.

But you then used it yourself, affirmatively.

I assume you mean, "doesn't follow Judaism" as opposed to being against Jews because they're Jews.

But that's not what the term means. Anti-Judaism does not mean just being a goy.

Christians accept Jesus as Lord. Jews only have 1 God, so in my mind, it would be inherent in the belief to feel that Jews do not have it right. And I have heard many times that the New Testament finishes the Old One which is saying that Christianity has perfected Judaism (just in a nicer sort of way).

Errrr.... Christians only have 1 G'd as well. Do not quiz me on the trinity dogma, though. As for supersessionism (the whole perfection dogma): That's become less and less mainstream ever since post-WWII developments like Vatican II.

87 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:12:32pm

re: #81 WindUpBird

Coulter's demographic is different, she's an author who has a larger television presence, she has book deals, she has a bigger industry pushing her schtick. she'd lose power by repeating Geller's rhetoric, she'd harm her persona

The instant Coulter were to gain power by espousing the same extreme rhetoric as Geller, she'd do it, don't even worry about it.

And the instant Geller were to gain power by tossing aside the EDL and going "legit" and embracing a more mainstream GOP message like Limbaugh, she'd do that.

Simple math, unbelievably simple. We're looking at the people behind the rhetoric. The rhetoric is the game. They're all equally scummy, they just have different chess moves they have to make in media to make money, increase their personas and get their messages out, different arrays of pieces.

I agree with you there on Coulter. She probably says more nasty things about liberals than about Muslims. I think she's far more politically motivated than racially. Maybe that's the difference between the two women.

I don't agree with you about Geller tho. She likes the limelight. I don't think she particularly needs or cares about the $. I also think there is something within her that thinks she's doing some kind of mitzvah (blessing) and maybe that's why I think she's so vile.

Yes, they're all scummy.

88 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:13:05pm

re: #76 000G

For reference, this is what you said:

You say most Christianity is anti-judaic in the sense that they want Jews to be perfected – i.e. not accept them as Jews – and that if Christians accept Jesus as Lord they have to be that way – making the conclusion inevitable that those Christians who accept Jews as Jews are somehow in violation to their own core principles (a conclusion, btw, that i do not agree with because I think the premises are false, but that's another issue). You say you do not understand Christianity – but then how can you say what they have to be like?

What she said was absolutely correct, when it comes to evangelical Protestants and the Baptist Conference, which together make up the majority of Christians in this Country. They both say so explicitly and are not ashamed of it.

Perhaps you belong to a less strident sect, after all there are now over 1000 practicing sects of Christianity in the United States. Still what she describes is actually the official majority Christian opinion within this country. Clean the mote from your eye before attempting to remove the beam from another's eye. ;P

89 Kragar  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:14:11pm

re: #85 freetoken

Portugal drug law show results ten years on, experts say

I think it's pretty straightforward - people addicted to drugs are in a self-destructive mode and helping them out of it makes a whole lot more sense than locking them up somewhere.

Put how do you fund a privatized prison system without imprisoning drug addicts with other convicted felons, hmm?
/

90 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:15:10pm

re: #85 freetoken

Portugal drug law show results ten years on, experts say

I think it's pretty straightforward - people addicted to drugs are in a self-destructive mode and helping them out of it makes a whole lot more sense than locking them up somewhere.

Unless you're a political party that gets contributions from the private prison industry

GO republicans!

91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:16:23pm

re: #87 marjoriemoon

I agree with you there on Coulter. She probably says more nasty things about liberals than about Muslims. I think she's far more politically motivated than racially. Maybe that's the difference between the two women.

I don't agree with you about Geller tho. She likes the limelight. I don't think she particularly needs or cares about the $. I also think there is something within her that thinks she's doing some kind of mitzvah (blessing) and maybe that's why I think she's so vile.

Yes, they're all scummy.

Well, with geller, replace money with power, or visibility. Even a millionaire can't immediately make themselves a star without an angle

92 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:16:40pm

I suspect that Portugal is have a deline in its problems with the spread of "Prislam"...

93 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:17:06pm

re: #83 Decatur Deb

Never heard of it until a dozen comments ago. What I'm using it for here is the distinction between someone who has a well-meaning religious mission to share (his) truth, and someone who has problems not only with Jewish theology, but with Jews as an ethnic group.

Ok. I'm with ya.

Well, if I would get into a heated, down and dirty discussion with my Christian friends, they would surely agree they are right. Why not? I would surely agree I am right! I've had some Christian friends say some pretty strange things to me! And mostly I blow it off because I don't think they mean to be insulting. I know them, they like me, I like them. If it's a slur, I'll tell them they made a slur. But if they say, "Christians are perfected." I would tell them *I* certainly don't feel that way, but hey... let's go get a hamburger. Did you see the latest Tom Hanks movie?

(I'm a big subject switcher with things that make me uncomfortable especially if they aren't worth arguing about).

94 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:17:15pm

re: #87 marjoriemoon

Technically, supersessionism and "perfection" are used in different sense.

The first is corporately, the latter is individually.

Thus the classic Christian belief that while the Church took over for Israel as God's representative on Earth, any individual Jew could still be "perfected".

OTOH, with the advent of some of the hard core variants of dispensationalism, there are those Christians who hold to the (non-traditional) belief that a restored Israel will once again become God's representative on Earth.

95 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:17:30pm

re: #90 WindUpBird

Unless you're a political party that gets contributions from the private prison industry

GO republicans!

In California, both Democrats and the GOP get hefty contributions from the prison industry.

and the problem is both with the public and private prison industry; it's anytime there's an incentive to incarcerate larger numbers of people. Public prisons still mean larger payouts to contractors, and-- the one actually bad union I know of-- the prison guard union. The prison guard union in California has fucked up all kinds of shit.

The irony is that a lot of the lower-level prison guards are against stuff like the 3 strikes law, because it winds up with them getting shanked by guys with nothing to lose, but the higher ups like it.

I hate the 3 strikes rule.

96 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:18:39pm

re: #88 ausador

What she said was absolutely correct, when it comes to evangelical Protestants and the Baptist Conference, which together make up the majority of Christians in this Country. They both say so explicitly and are not ashamed of it.

Do Baptists and Evangelicans really make up "the majority" or are they just a very vocal plurality? Anyhow, I was not just talking about "this country". I am not even from the US.

Perhaps you belong to a less strident sect, after all there are now over 1000 practicing sects of Christianity in the United States. Still what she describes is actually the official majority Christian opinion within this country. Clean the mote from your eye before attempting to remove the beam from another's eye. ;P

What I am trying to get at is that Christian-Jewish reconciliation is not a fringe or fraudulent position in Christianity, nevermind Evangelicals or the US. Developments like the aforementioned Vatican II, or, for Protestants, Towards Renovation of the Relationship of Christians and Jews of the Synod of the Evangelical Church of the Rhineland have been real and should not be ignored.

97 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:19:46pm

re: #86 000G

But you then used it yourself, affirmatively.

And then I made it clear I didn't understand how you were using it although I thought I knew how you were using it and then that I never heard it before.

But that's not what the term means. Anti-Judaism does not mean just being a goy.

You said it meant anti-Semitism, so why didn't you use the word "anti-Semitism?"

Errr... Christians only have 1 G'd as well. Do not quiz me on the trinity dogma, though. As for supersessionism (the whole perfection dogma): That's become less and less mainstream ever since post-WWII developments like Vatican II.

I am NOT arguing the precepts of Christianity here so you can argue with someone else.

98 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:21:24pm

re: #97 marjoriemoon

You said it meant anti-Semitism,

Uh, no I didn't.

I am NOT arguing the precepts of Christianity here so you can argue with someone else.

With all due respect: Then you should not write about what Christians have to be like as Christians.

99 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:21:51pm

re: #94 freetoken

Technically, supersessionism and "perfection" are used in different sense.

The first is corporately, the latter is individually.

Thus the classic Christian belief that while the Church took over for Israel as God's representative on Earth, any individual Jew could still be "perfected".

OTOH, with the advent of some of the hard core variants of dispensationalism, there are those Christians who hold to the (non-traditional) belief that a restored Israel will once again become God's representative on Earth.

Perfection, completion, fulfillment, replacement. Does it make a difference to a Jewish ear? It may make a difference to Christians, but it makes no matter to us. We still "get" it.

100 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:22:50pm

re: #93 marjoriemoon

Ok. I'm with ya.

Well, if I would get into a heated, down and dirty discussion with my Christian friends, they would surely agree they are right. Why not? I would surely agree I am right! I've had some Christian friends say some pretty strange things to me! And mostly I blow it off because I don't think they mean to be insulting. I know them, they like me, I like them. If it's a slur, I'll tell them they made a slur. But if they say, "Christians are perfected." I would tell them *I* certainly don't feel that way, but hey... let's go get a hamburger. Did you see the latest Tom Hanks movie?

(I'm a big subject switcher with things that make me uncomfortable especially if they aren't worth arguing about).

The "perfected" language wasn't current among Catholics through the 1960s, and might not be now. The idea that not just Jews, but everyone, is to be brought to the mainline RC truth persists. (Another difference in tone arises from the fact that Catholics have always 'professionalized' their evangelism through the trained hierarchy. It reduces the one-on-one enthusiasm a great deal.)

101 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:23:27pm

re: #98 000G

Uh, no I didn't.

With all due respect: Then you should not write about what Christians have to be like as Christians.

You quoted the wiki that said it was the same as anti-Semitism if you read your link.

With all due respect, you shouldn't assume you know what Jews think about Christians.

And quite frankly, you're arguing with me all because I said Geller was worse than Coulter. Which is really all I EVER said.

102 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:25:05pm

re: #101 marjoriemoon

You quoted the wiki that said it was the same as anti-Semitism if you read your link.

No, it doesn't.

With all due respect, you shouldn't assume you know what Jews think about Christians.

I didn't.

And quite frankly, you're arguing with me all because I said Geller was worse than Coulter. Which is really all I EVER said.

No, I am arguing with you because of what you said about how Christians have to be like, which started off from a comment of mine on a comment of yours in which you said that at least Coulter wasn't racist.

103 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:25:31pm

re: #89 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Put how do you fund a privatized prison system without imprisoning drug addicts with other convicted felons, hmm?
/

In Portugal you are not arrested or jailed for drug possession, although you still can be for illegal sales. If busted for possession you are issued a notice to appear in court, similar to a traffic ticket. Usually first offenders are given probation along with drug counseling, 2nd time offenders are usually sent to lockdown rehab programs for treatment.

The percentage of the population using drugs has decreased, the prison population has decreased, drug related crime has decreased, use of the hardcore drugs (herion and opiates) have decreased quite a lot, but even the less enforced recreational drugs like marijuana and cocaine have seen double digit drops in usage.

104 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:29:11pm

Sure to feed the grievance theatre:

Court Overturns Michigan Affirmative-Action Ban

105 Kragar  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:29:53pm

Daffy decides threatening Europe with terrorist attacks is the way to go


Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has threatened to attack Europe in revenge for Nato's operations in Libya.

Col Gaddafi said Libya would target European "homes, offices, families" unless Nato stopped its campaign.

Yeah, that will work.

106 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:31:25pm

re: #105 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Daffy decides threatening Europe with terrorist attacks is the way to go

Yeah, that will work.

These clowns could all have a nice retirement somewhere, if they only knew when to quit.

107 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:32:19pm

re: #96 000G

Do Baptists and Evangelicans really make up "the majority"

According to the Pew research polls they do, I need to update this one to the 2010 survey data about now (they only do it every three years), but I doubt things have changed all that much.

My graph of the last Pew research poll....
Image: graph2.jpg

108 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:32:29pm

re: #102 000G

No, it doesn't.

I didn't.

No, I am arguing with you because of what you said about how Christians have to be like, which started off from a comment of mine on a comment of yours in which you said that at least Coulter wasn't racist.

I never said Coulter was not a racist. I said I didn't THINK her books were racist. Go back and read it.

I saw Anti-Semitism at the top of the link, but the end of the column references anti-Semitism. So you're splitting hairs.

See also
* Supersessionism
* Christianity and antisemitism
* Schisms among the Jews
* Anti-Zionism
* Anti-Semitism
* Criticism of Judaism
* Persecution of early Christians by the Jews
* Antinomianism
* New Covenant
* Dual-covenant theology

I don't know what your problem with me is. Or maybe it's the problem with Jews. Christians believe in more than one God. There's the Father and the Son and you cannot get to the Father without the Son. We don't have that.

109 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:34:01pm

You know what? I'm not getting into a discussion where I'm going to end up insulting someone and that's where this is going. Find someone else to argue with. I'm out.

110 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:34:10pm

Has anybody said yet that the real nazis and racists are on the left?

111 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:36:02pm

also grabbed this out of the thread (from 000G):

"With all due respect: Then you should not write about what Christians have to be like as Christians."

Why not, it seems to work pretty well referring to muslims ><

112 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:36:48pm

re: #108 marjoriemoon

I never said Coulter was not a racist. I said I didn't THINK her books were racist. Go back and read it.

Fair enough.

I saw Anti-Semitism at the top of the link, but the end of the column references anti-Semitism. So you're splitting hairs.

I am not "splitting hairs". The definitions of antisemitism and antijudaism simply are not identical and as far as the definitions are operational, they are crucially different from one another, even though related.

I don't know what your problem with me is.

I don't have one.

Or maybe it's the problem with Jews.

Huh?

Christians believe in more than one God.

No, they don't. Christians worship one G'd that subsists in three persons; this is called the trinity. It's a rather complicated dogma but it's still a monotheistic one.

113 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:37:51pm

re: #108 marjoriemoon

I never said Coulter was not a racist. I said I didn't THINK her books were racist. Go back and read it.

I saw Anti-Semitism at the top of the link, but the end of the column references anti-Semitism. So you're splitting hairs.

See also
* Supersessionism
* Christianity and antisemitism
* Schisms among the Jews
* Anti-Zionism
* Anti-Semitism
* Criticism of Judaism
* Persecution of early Christians by the Jews
* Antinomianism
* New Covenant
* Dual-covenant theology

I don't know what your problem with me is. Or maybe it's the problem with Jews. Christians believe in more than one God. There's the Father and the Son and you cannot get to the Father without the Son. We don't have that.

Sounds like you want to disengage for a while, but I want to address the 1 God thing. Almost no Christian would admit to more than one God. Catholics and closely allied groups go for the Trinity--that's 1 God that is simultaneously 3 persons. Good theology, perhaps, but very tricky math.

114 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:38:06pm

re: #110 windsagio

Has anybody said yet that the real nazis and racists are on the left?


and don't forget the bit about nazis bein' national SOCILISTS

115 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:39:23pm

"Apparently successful" US SPR bids 30.64 mln bbls

The "apparently successful" bids for the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve's release of crude oil stocks totaled 30.64 million barrels at an average$107.19 a barrel, data released on Friday by the U.S.Department of Energy showed.

Well, that's one way to raise money to pay the interest on the debt. $3billion auction - not bad.

116 Kragar  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:40:35pm

re: #110 windsagio

Has anybody said yet that the real nazis and racists are on the left?

National Socialists, duh, of course they're leftists...
///

117 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:42:03pm

re: #113 Decatur Deb

Theology has given the English language some of its most elaborate words.

E.g., "antidisestablishmentarianism" .

As for wrt trinitarianism one such word is "perichoresis" , a fancy word to try and get around the return to a pantheon.

118 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:42:24pm

re: #112 000G

No, they don't. Christians worship one G'd that subsists in three persons; this is called the trinity. It's a rather complicated dogma but it's still a monotheistic one.

Not all Christians teach or believe in the Trinity, Jehovah's Witnesses for example. The Trinity is a specifically Catholic invention, and while it may be monotheistic, from my agnostic point of view it also smacks somewhat of schizophrenia.

119 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:44:35pm

re: #117 freetoken

Theology has given the English language some of its most elaborate words.

E.g., "antidisestablishmentarianism" .

As for wrt trinitarianism one such word is "perichoresis" , a fancy word to try and get around the return to a pantheon.

My favorite is 'phthistic', which is a medieval disease, but ought to be a theological concept. The Holy Grail for Scrabble players.

120 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:45:11pm

re: #118 goddamnedfrank

Not all Christians teach or believe in the Trinity, Jehovah's Witnesses for example. The Trinity is a specifically Catholic invention, and while it may be monotheistic, from my agnostic point of view it also smacks somewhat of schizophrenia.

The vast majority of Christians are trinitarian and most of those regard non-trinitarian branches like Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons as non-Christians. And while the Trinity was borne out of the Roman-Catholic Church, AFAIK it is firmly embraced by Protestantism and Orthodox Christianity alike.

121 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:45:38pm

The concept of the trinity is one of those things that has had thousands of thousands of pages written about over the last few thousand years. Its kind of offputting to say 'no I'm right, thats polytheism'.

It's a complex crazy interesting subject tho;

re: #118 goddamnedfrank

funnily, many christians feel that JW's are specifically NOT christian because they deny the divinity of Christ.

I just wonder how the Holy Spirit became such a big deal.

~~~

PS: "God" is a descriptor not a name.

122 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:46:22pm

re: #118 goddamnedfrank

Not all Christians teach or believe in the Trinity, Jehovah's Witnesses for example. The Trinity is a specifically Catholic invention, and while it may be monotheistic, from my agnostic point of view it also smacks somewhat of schizophrenia.

By the way, I do not claim to understand the trinity or that it makes sense. Ignostic myself here.

123 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:46:26pm

re: #120 000G

in some ways, its more so. Evangelicals love them the spirit.

124 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:46:55pm

re: #121 windsagio

The concept of the trinity is one of those things that has had thousands of thousands of pages written about over the last few thousand years. Its kind of offputting to say 'no I'm right, thats polytheism'.

It's a complex crazy interesting subject tho;

funnily, many christians feel that JW's are specifically NOT christian because they deny the divinity of Christ.

I just wonder how the Holy Spirit became such a big deal.

~~~

PS: "God" is a descriptor not a name.

Let's settle it with an Internet poll. Ron Paul can be the fourth person of the Trinity.

125 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:47:10pm

re: #121 windsagio

Gozer worshiper!

126 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:47:14pm

Why We're Doomed - evidence for the case, label it entry #129,548:

Amazon Deforestation Rates Double as Farmers Anticipate Pardons


Deforestation rates in the Amazon, the world’s biggest rain forest, more than doubled in May as Brazilian farmers become more confident they’ll be granted amnesty for illegal logging.

Almost 268 square kilometers (66,200 acres) of protected rain forest were cut down in May, up from 110 square kilometers a year ago, the National Institute for Space Research said in an e-mailed statement.
Brazil lawmakers are considering a bill that alters its forestry code and would forgive farmers who illegally cleared trees. The possibility that the government may ease these restrictions is encouraging more logging, said Marcio Astrini, coordinator of forest campaigns for Greenpeace International’s Brazil unit. That would hamper international efforts to fight global warming by protecting trees that absorb greenhouse gases. [...]

127 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:47:25pm

re: #124 Decatur Deb

Ayn Rand, you fool!

128 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:48:55pm

actually its worth pursuing, who is the Supply Side God?

Rand? Reagan?

129 Buck  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:49:59pm

They took my holy book, and called it old...they made a new book and called it new...

I am not surprised if they think they are the new and improved version of me.

But what do I know? I am an atheist. A jew certainly, but an atheist none the less.

130 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:50:17pm

re: #128 windsagio

actually its worth pursuing, who is the Supply Side God?

Rand? Reagan?

131 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:51:17pm

re: #130 000G

dude, perfect! I'd forgotten about that!

132 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:51:54pm

re: #121 windsagio

funnily, many christians feel that JW's are specifically NOT christian because they deny the divinity of Christ.

I have a soft spot for JW's, I admire their refusal to sign loyalty oaths.

"Give everybody eat!"
-Major — — DeCoverly, Catch 22

133 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:52:28pm

re: #129 Buck

They took my holy book, and called it old...they made a new book and called it new...

I am not surprised if they think they are the new and improved version of me.

But what do I know? I am an atheist. A jew certainly, but an atheist none the less.

Kids. Whaddya gonna do?

134 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:53:29pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

My memory of JW's always comes from 2nd grade. It was far enough back that we still actually did holiday crap, and the one kid always sat out in the hall.

At the time I thought it was sad and almost abusive, now, if it were actually his choice (which is a question) its kind of cool and brave >>

135 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:54:58pm

re: #126 freetoken

Why We're Doomed - evidence for the case, label it entry #129,548:

Amazon Deforestation Rates Double as Farmers Anticipate Pardons

Brazilians have turned out to be unbelievably selfish and stupid

136 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:55:35pm

Like I said before, I'm glad I don't read any of these people.

137 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:55:45pm

re: #128 windsagio

actually its worth pursuing, who is the Supply Side God?

Rand? Reagan?

There is no God but Bob Dobbs and Archie McPhee is his messenger.

138 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:55:47pm

re: #135 albusteve

They're just human like everyone else.

BTW, I see that your fires are flaming away.

139 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:56:04pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

I have a soft spot for JW's, I admire their refusal to sign loyalty oaths.

I admire them for their many anti-nazi stances, for which they got severely persecuted – among many things, they dared to portray Hitler as the Anti-Christ after he got to power. They even had their own badges in the concentration camps. Camp leaders liked to employ them as barbers because their strict anti-violent stance would not allow them to use the barber knife as a weapon.

140 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:56:16pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

Kids. Whaddya gonna do?

Buy 'em a book and they smoke the pages...

141 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:56:29pm

I had to do a double take when I first saw this. Yes. it's real....
Let's hear it for prejudice - Pat Buchanan

142 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:57:54pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Yeah, that article has gotten many comments wherever it's been posted, but I note that the WND title on it is different than on Buchanan's own website (or Townhall.)

143 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:58:18pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

hah, disarmed my first question :p

That guy is just so crazy, like 'lock him away before he hurts himself' crazy.

144 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:58:31pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

I had to do a double take when I first saw this. Yes. it's real...
Let's hear it for prejudice - Pat Buchanan

Not an unusual position among Buchanites:

145 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:58:35pm

re: #138 freetoken

They're just human like everyone else.

BTW, I see that your fires are flaming away.

not a lot can be done...try to control their direction and speed..and the monsoons should start up soon, for what that's worth...last year we had no monsoon around ABQ

146 b_sharp  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:59:25pm

This is all I can say about Geller.

147 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 1:59:57pm

BTW, Buchanan's previous article, from a few days ago, was a very VDH-esque rant about how LA and California is doomed, because a Mexican team got more cheers and less boos at a game in Pasadena.

Yes, really.

148 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:00:31pm

re: #142 freetoken

Yeah, that article has gotten many comments wherever it's been posted, but I note that the WND title on it is different than on Buchanan's own website (or Townhall.)

Interesting, the townhall version has a different title: The Death of Moral Community

149 Jimmah  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:00:36pm

For the EDL and their shrieky fuckwad pals - Real great Britain:

150 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:00:51pm

re: #104 freetoken

Sure to feed the grievance theatre:

Court Overturns Michigan Affirmative-Action Ban

So the courts have said they can't and now can. Someone needs to make up their damn minds. This argument has been going on 15 years!

151 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:02:05pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

Farah just knows how to write a better zinger of a headline. He knows that content validity doesn't matter, just the utterance of magic words.

152 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:02:09pm

Pat's site is pretty awesome and hilarious.

re: #147 freetoken

BTW, Buchanan's previous article, from a few days ago, was a very VDH-esque rant about how LA and California is doomed, because a Mexican team got more cheers and less boos at a game in Pasadena.

Yes, really.

damn, beaten I was just gonna talk about that :D

I will say, if you develop technology to filter out the crazy, the guy still does basically know his way around a typewriter. Reasonably good wordcraft.

Just crazy

153 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:03:04pm

re: #147 freetoken

BTW, Buchanan's previous article, from a few days ago, was a very VDH-esque rant about how LA and California is doomed, because a Mexican team got more cheers and less boos at a game in Pasadena.

Yes, really.

you mean the new 58th state, Southern California?

154 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:04:05pm

also, damn.

Really, Pat? REALLY?

155 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:04:42pm

re: #153 albusteve

whoops...
[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]

156 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:06:32pm

re: #155 albusteve

norcal will split off before San Diego will. (both of which are sadly probably never)

157 freetoken  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:11:19pm
158 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:13:33pm

re: #155 albusteve

whoops...
[Link: losangeles.cbslocal.com...]

Assuming they could secede, what is the guarantee they would be admitted to the union?

159 Jimmah  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:13:39pm

re: #121 windsagio

The concept of the trinity is one of those things that has had thousands of thousands of pages written about over the last few thousand years. Its kind of offputting to say 'no I'm right, thats polytheism'.

It's a complex crazy interesting subject tho;

funnily, many christians feel that JW's are specifically NOT christian because they deny the divinity of Christ.

I just wonder how the Holy Spirit became such a big deal.

~~~

PS: "God" is a descriptor not a name.

I always thought of the trinity in Dracula terms. He can be a man, or a bat, or some smoke, but it's still him. Pretty simple really ;)

160 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:15:02pm

re: #158 Decatur Deb

Assuming they could secede, what is the guarantee they would be admitted to the union?

I don't take it too serious, it's CA...but I'm sure all the details are worked out

161 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:15:41pm

re: #159 Jimmah

Too simple :p You have tons of monks all sitting around in old, cold monestaries, and you need to keep them out of trouble.

Solution: "Quick, write about Justification or the Trinity!"

162 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:17:14pm

re: #161 windsagio

Too simple :p You have tons of monks all sitting around in old, cold monestaries, and you need to keep them out of trouble.

Solution: "Quick, write about Justification or the Trinity!"

"It was a typo--it says 'celebrate'".

163 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:17:37pm

It's a kind of funny thing, most of the Western states want to split into 2 (or more) pieces. Just one of the things we do out here.

CA is the worst tho, I think everyone just wants to get away from LA

164 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:19:36pm

oh forgot, the real solution is for the whole west coast (maybe to the rockies) to secede from the US!!!

165 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:20:03pm

re: #107 ausador

According to the Pew research polls they do, I need to update this one to the 2010 survey data about now (they only do it every three years), but I doubt things have changed all that much.

My graph of the last Pew research poll...
Image: graph2.jpg

That still looks like plurality (or: biggest minority) more than majority.

166 Jimmah  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:20:12pm

re: #161 windsagio

Too simple :p You have tons of monks all sitting around in old, cold monestaries, and you need to keep them out of trouble.

Solution: "Quick, write about Justification or the Trinity!"

With that and that whole transubstantiation thing, the long winter nights must have flown by :)

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:22:56pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

I had to do a double take when I first saw this. Yes. it's real...
Let's hear it for prejudice - Pat Buchanan

Hooray for social conservatism. This is the same person who believes we must be grateful for slavery. /eyeroll

168 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:24:01pm

re: #163 windsagio

It's a kind of funny thing, most of the Western states want to split into 2 (or more) pieces. Just one of the things we do out here.

CA is the worst tho, I think everyone just wants to get away from LA

The mayor of New York once tried to secede from the union.

Wiki--
In the period of national crisis immediately preceding the American Civil War, Democratic Mayor Fernando Wood, widely considered the most corrupt in the city's history, proposed the secession of the city as a sovereign city-state to be called the Free City of Tri-Insula (Tri-Insula meaning "three islands" in Latin), and incorporating Manhattan, Long Island and Staten Island. In an address to the city's Common Council on January 6, 1861, Mayor Wood expressed a Copperhead sympathy with the threatened seceding states and a desire to maintain profitable cotton shipping, confidence that the city state would prosper on the import tariffs that then supplied 2/3 of the Federal revenues, and especially dissatisfaction with the state government at Albany. But the idea of leaving the United States proved too radical even in the turmoil of 1861 and was poorly received, especially after the Southern bombardment of Fort Sumter starting on April 12. The war, and especially conscription, was nevertheless often unpopular in the city, sparking the deadly New York Draft Riots.

Coincidentally, the upstate locale of Town Line, New York did vote to secede from the Union, contributing several troops to the Confederacy. Town Line did not rejoin the union until 1946; its residents did not pay taxes during its time "out of the union," which amounted to 85 years.[1]

169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:25:23pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

I just figure Pat is a klansman, and just keeps it on the downlow for the cameras

170 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:26:45pm

Good. The dumb bigots in Orange County, North San DiegoCcounty and the Inland Empire can all go jump off the cliff, afaic. Good riddance.

re: #157 freetoken

Stone is act:

SoCal Should Secede From NorCal, Says Riverside County Supervisor Jeff Stone

He has history:

[Link: www.topix.com...]

171 Winny Spencer  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:27:56pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

I have a soft spot for JW's, I admire their refusal to sign loyalty oaths.

"Give everybody eat!"
-Major — — DeCoverly, Catch 22

There is no cult in the world that I loathe more. Utterly evil.

172 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:28:39pm

re: #95 Obdicut

In California, both Democrats and the GOP get hefty contributions from the prison industry.

and the problem is both with the public and private prison industry; it's anytime there's an incentive to incarcerate larger numbers of people. Public prisons still mean larger payouts to contractors, and-- the one actually bad union I know of-- the prison guard union. The prison guard union in California has fucked up all kinds of shit.

The irony is that a lot of the lower-level prison guards are against stuff like the 3 strikes law, because it winds up with them getting shanked by guys with nothing to lose, but the higher ups like it.

I hate the 3 strikes rule.

The three strikes rule is pretty abominable, yes

173 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:30:41pm

re: #171 Winny Spencer

There is no cult in the world that I loathe more. Utterly evil.

Jehovah's Witnesses? Worse than everything, lol whut?

Last I heard they weren't killing congressmen in Guyana or gassing Tokyo subways, I could be wrong ;-)

174 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:31:54pm

re: #171 Winny Spencer

where'd that come from?

175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:32:42pm

re: #169 WindUpBird

I just figure Pat is a klansman, and just keeps it on the downlow for the cameras


Pat's whole problem is he'd never be accepted by the Ku Klux Klan. Wrong last name, wrong religion.

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:33:06pm

re: #174 windsagio

where'd that come from?

JW RAAAAGE

maybe Winny just REALLY LIKES WINDOWS

177 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:33:36pm

re: #171 Winny Spencer

There is no cult in the world that I loathe more. Utterly evil.

I grew up with JW neighbors....real good people, not provocative or loathsome in any way, and certainly not whatever you mean by evil

178 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:34:31pm

re: #177 albusteve

I grew up with JW neighbors...real good people, not provocative or loathsome in any way, and certainly not whatever you mean by evil

I had a childhood acquaintance who was JW, seemed all right to me! if a little skittish about my profanity, hah

179 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:35:19pm

Enquiring minds want to know! (but we're probalby chasing her away, lol)

180 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:36:34pm

Bad touch at the JW summer camp?

181 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:36:50pm

re: #179 windsagio

Enquiring minds want to know! (but we're probalby chasing her away, lol)

I'm just going to randomly assert that some 80's one hit wonder is the most evil cult in history


Maybe Timbukthree, or Musical youth

182 Winny Spencer  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:37:07pm

re: #179 windsagio

Enquiring minds want to know! (but we're probalby chasing her away, lol)

Him.

Blood transfusions anyone?

183 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:37:41pm

re: #181 WindUpBird

I'm just going to randomly assert that some 80's one hit wonder is the most evil cult in history

Maybe Timbukthree, or Musical youth

Ace Of Bass

184 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:38:34pm

re: #182 Winny Spencer

Him.

Blood transfusions anyone?

Christian Scientists trump JWs before breakfast, lol

MARY BAKER EDDY HAS YOU NOW, RUN WHILE YOU CAN

185 windsagio  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:38:50pm

re: #182 Winny Spencer

All joking aside, that doesn't help much.

What puts you so against them? My main ideas about JW theology is that they deny the Trinity, they don't believe in Hell, and they don't believe in Holidays... oh also, they're 'sabbath keepers'

186 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:39:08pm

re: #183 RogueOne

Ace Of Bass

They had at least two!

The Sign, and All that She Wants :D

187 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:40:39pm

re: #186 WindUpBird

I can't believe you know that. I'm a little hurt.

188 albusteve  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:41:22pm

re: #182 Winny Spencer

Him.

Blood transfusions anyone?

I admit my acceptance of JW's is based on each minding their own business

189 Jimmah  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:42:16pm

re: #182 Winny Spencer

Him.

Blood transfusions anyone?

That IS fucked up. But it doesn't make them evil as such, just driven by irrational superstition. Every religion has that aspect.

190 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:43:01pm

re: #187 RogueOne

I can't believe you know that. I'm a little hurt.

I know a GREAT DEAL of useless music trivia, partiuclarly late 80's-to-early-90's pop, rock, metal, and industrial


also my brother was a honest-to-God fan of Ace of Base

191 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:43:36pm

re: #189 Jimmah

That IS fucked up. But it doesn't make them evil as such, just driven by irrational superstition. Every religion has that aspect.

Aum Shinri Kyo would be very upset to learn that they're not more evil


didn't they manage to get ahold of their own ATTACK HELICOPTER?

192 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:44:34pm

Jim Jones is now really pissed

I mean, listen to him, he's really upset

193 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:47:43pm

re: #190 WindUpBird

....
also my brother was a honest-to-God fan of Ace of Base

I guess it could be worse.// I have tickets to Loverboy on Sunday but not intentionally. Want 'em?

194 Winny Spencer  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:53:33pm

re: #191 WindUpBird

Aum Shinri Kyo would be very upset to learn that they're not more evil

didn't they manage to get ahold of their own ATTACK HELICOPTER?

Who wrote anything about any cult being the "most evil"?

195 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:57:39pm

re: #194 Winny Spencer

Who wrote anything about any cult being the "most evil"?

You said 'utterly evil'. Does something surpass that?

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:58:00pm

re: #194 Winny Spencer

Who wrote anything about any cult being the "most evil"?


Oh please just admit you said a really silly thing and get over yourself :D

or maybe you do believe refusing blood transfusions makes a sect of Christianity more evil than mass murder in the grand scheme of things, in which case I say enjoy your rich world of internal phantasmagoric delights because you seem to be completely divorced from reality

197 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:01:47pm

re: #110 windsagio

Has anybody said yet that the real nazis and racists are on the left?

Give it time. Someone will.

198 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:09:29pm

re: #197 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Give it time. Someone will.

Maybe that asshole Scott Lively will show up to 'remind' every of his Pink Swastika idea:

Don't worry about the EDL, the Real Naxis are teh Gey!!1

199 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:18:08pm

re: #120 000G

The vast majority of Christians are trinitarian and most of those regard non-trinitarian branches like Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons as non-Christians. And while the Trinity was borne out of the Roman-Catholic Church, AFAIK it is firmly embraced by Protestantism and Orthodox Christianity alike.

In the US, you would be surprised at the number of non-/anti-trinitarian groups. They may be a numerical minority, but they are a strong one.

Unitarians (the 2nd U in the UUs) by definition are non-trinitarian.

Oneness Pentecostals are also anti-trinitarians in their own way.

Some groups from the Stone-Campbell movement such as some Congregationalists, are not only nontrinitarian but also anti-creedal, including the Nicene Creed.

200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:19:25pm

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Maybe that asshole Scott Lively will show up to 'remind' every of his Pink Swastika idea:

Ah, poor Scott. That is the type of man who will be caught with a rentboy. Any dibs on who will go first, him or Bryan Fischer?

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:29:41pm

This is sooo much fun! I missed the moment when the Baron and the Atla Girl turned on each other. It's like watching some crappy B-movie that is so bad it's good.

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:54:49pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

Ah, I found another reason for the counterjihad meltdown: Fjordman and Gates of Vienna have recently come out of the closet as full fledged antisemites...
When Treason Becomes The Norm: Why The Proposition Nation, Not Islam, Is Our Primary Enemy

Notice the article is cross posted at a blog called "A Jew among us" blaming Jews for the ills of the Western world. Also scroll down to the comments for the discussion of how Jewish multiculturalism is responsible of the decline of white culture.


Wow, that's some sick puppy. A Jew who likes to hang out with the Nazis and then complains that they don't like him because he is a Jew, after all ("So when neo-Nazis say to me, “look jewamongyou! See what terrible crimes your people have committed against whites?” it makes me wonder what they want from me."). But then: "While it is true that many of my co-ethnics have been conspiring to destroy Western civilization and to eliminate the white race or reduce it to miserable remnants...". AmRen contingent, that's for sure.

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:00:42pm

re: #112 000G


No, they don't. Christians worship one G'd that subsists in three persons; this is called the trinity. It's a rather complicated dogma but it's still a monotheistic one.

Well, that's the problem. One counts by the persons. So there are still three gods. Otherwise what does "one god" mean? And yeah, yeah, saying that one should not strive to understand it as it is a dogma will make it go away ;)

204 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:03:20pm

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

Well, that's the problem. One counts by the persons. So there are still three gods. Otherwise what does "one god" mean? And yeah, yeah, saying that one should not strive to understand it as it is a dogma will make it go away ;)

It means that fairly early Christians were very good at missionary work and rather poor at math. "It's a miracle mystery."

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:06:17pm

re: #204 Decatur Deb

It means that fairly early Christians were very good at missionary work and rather poor at math. "It's a miracle mystery."

"That Greek wisdom will make you gaaaay!"

/

206 Usually refered to as anyways  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:14:00pm

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

Well, that's the problem. One counts by the persons. So there are still three gods. Otherwise what does "one god" mean? And yeah, yeah, saying that one should not strive to understand it as it is a dogma will make it go away ;)

Back to maths class for you, the holy spirit is not a person.

207 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:18:52pm

re: #206 ozbloke

Back to maths class for you, the holy spirit is not a person.

Is in the Catholic Baltimore catechism.

208 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 8:16:30pm

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

One counts by the persons.

Dunno what you mean by "one". Trinitarian Christians do not, and they have historically been the vast majority. It's still just one trinity, that is their count, and it is the one that matters most.

So there are still three gods. Otherwise what does "one god" mean?

I dunno, you figure it out:
[Link: www.tyndale.ca...]
[Link: plato.stanford.edu...]
[Link: www.iep.utm.edu...]

209 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 9:22:55pm

You see, Pamela, there are evil people in the world who do evil things to good people. When the evil people do evil to you, you might get mad and defeat the evil people and their evil if you become evil, but if you become evil and defeat the other evil people who are doing evil to the good people, you are no longer with the good people. You will find that you have become just as evil as the other evil people who do evil. So you are just evil, and the good people will see your evil, and you are no longer good. It's better to remain good and defeat the evil people and their evil with goodness. That way you are always good. See?

/Mike Brady approved this message.

210 Querent  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 10:19:26pm

re: #56 000G

Which is why I am unnerved by religions that require their adherents to proselytize. If you want to convert someone to a religion, you should just lead by example and live it instead of getting on people's nerves, belittle them, bully them, coerce them or invade them.

Q.
F.
T.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:26:24pm

re: #5 Obdicut

It's funny when they take that regretful tone, like, "Well, these weak-willed Jews just don't have what it takes, it's really a shame, I've got nothing against Jews but they're destroying the world with their liberalness".

Do they think anyone outside their circle of racism believes that shit?

Yes. Most of them have bought it themselves.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:27:46pm

re: #19 Dreggas

Funny, most Jewish people I know are white.

Not by the standards of CRAZY white people.

Then again, some of the crazy white people don't consider the Irish to be white either.

213 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:28:44pm

re: #206 ozbloke

Back to maths class for you, the holy spirit is not a person.

Excuse me?

[quote]Christians worship one G'd that subsists in three persons[/quote]Back to the reading class for you?

/

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:30:36pm

re: #27 Dreggas

I know. Which is what really gets me. Last I knew being Jewish was a cultural/religious identity that had little to nothing to do with skin color.

Yeah, but for a lot of people 'white' has nothing to do with skin color. It just means so many different things to different people, depending on politics.

215 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:32:47pm

re: #208 000G

Dunno what you mean by "one". Trinitarian Christians do not,

Sure they do not and that's why the doctrine is absurd. A god is a person. There are as many gods as there are god-persons. Saying that trinity is the God doesn't amount to much. So what if one day a Hindu sect arises that will claim that despite all the Hindu gods being persons of their own, they still constitute one god? Will that be monotheism? No. So I don't see why Christianity should be seen as such.

and they have historically been the vast majority. It's still just one trinity, that is their count, and it is the one that matters most.


Matters to whom? Why should I take their word for being monotheists?

216 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:33:10pm

re: #40 SpaceJesus

I haven't looked at the hate site Gates of Vienna in ages, Jesus H. Christ

[Link: gatesofvienna.blogspot.com...]

Their fear of halal food is perhaps a useful weakness. They might be immobilized with a sandwich if the need arose.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:35:58pm

re: #72 CuriousLurker

I wonder if we should remind them about all the non-meat food & drink that's naturally halal as is, like water, coffee, tea, soda, fruit, veggies, eggs, fish...

Perhaps they'll permit themselves to drink water if they put a little bit of bacon grease in it?

218 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 1, 2011 11:41:04pm

re: #215 Sergey Romanov

So what if one day a Hindu sect arises that will claim that despite all the Hindu gods being persons of their own, they still constitute one god?

I think that's a reasonably common concept in Hindu thought, anyway, if I'm not mistaken.

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 12:42:25am

re: #218 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that's a reasonably common concept in Hindu thought, anyway, if I'm not mistaken.

If so, this makes my point for me - nobody calls them monotheists. The very thought is preposterous.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 12:43:34am

Religious Jews are monotheists. Muslims are monotheists. Christians? Trinitarianists ;-P

221 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 12:48:22am

re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist

Perhaps they'll permit themselves to drink water if they put a little bit of bacon grease in it?

Yes, they'd definitely need to inoculate everything in order to counteract the dhimmifying effects of the halal cooties. Maybe an enterprising one among them could invent a handy spray bottle of liquified bacon grease.

I had all manner of hysterically funny scenarios playing out in my head over this. Most of them ended with these folks ending up huddled morosely around a table eating only bacon- or pork-flavored foods and drinking nothing but alcohol.

222 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 12:49:32am

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

{{{Sergey}}} Good to see you here! ;o)

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 10:22:58am

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

Religious Jews are monotheists. Muslims are monotheists. Christians? Trinitarianists ;-P

Generally, I let people decide on their own how many gods they believe in.

224 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 1:05:09pm

re: #215 Sergey Romanov

and that's why the doctrine is absurd.

I think debating the absurdity of religious doctrine is absurd, personally. I just know that to Trinitarians, one person in the trinity does not equal one G'd each. Of course, that's just an ad hoc definition. But so is your "A god is a person" statement.

Why should I take their word for being monotheists?

You don't have to. There's quite enough academic scholars of religious studies who would tell you the same thing. There's an abundance of reputable literature on the topic, both religious and non-religious.

225 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Jul 2, 2011 1:15:05pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

Generally, I let people decide on their own how many gods they believe in.

In a sense, it's like letting people decide their own race/ethnicity. Shit just gets too weird when you want to objectivize heavily constructed concepts like these.


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