Michele Bachmann (R-Mars) Pledges to Ban Pornography, Support ‘Robust Reproduction,’ Fight Stealth Sharia

The craziness gets worse
Wingnuts • Views: 28,179

The first Republican candidate to sign the list of demands issued by Iowa’s influential radical religious right group “The Family Leader” is, of course, Michele Bachmann: Update: Bachmann is first to sign Family Leader’s pro-marriage pledge.

The pledge is entitled, “The Marriage Vow – A Declaration of Dependence upon Marriage and Family.”

The organization’s chief executive officer is Bob Vander Plaats, a conservative evangelical leader who was the state chair of Mike Huckabee’s Republican presidential campaign when he won the 2008 Iowa Caucuses. Vander Plaats said the Family Leader will not support any candidate who declines to sign the pledge.

“If you are looking at being a leader of our great country….we would like to have you pledge personal fidelity to your own spouse and a respect for the marital bonds of others,” Vander Plaats told reporters at a news conference on the steps of the Iowa Statehouse.

U.S. Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minnesota, quickly signed the pledge Thursday, while an aide to to former Utah Gov. Jon Huntsman said he never signs any pledges. A spokesman for U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, said the congressman has reservations, while a representative of President Barack Obama’s Democratic campaign committee declined comment.

Former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty, a Republican, is reviewing the pledge, a spokesman said Thursday night. Several other GOP presidential candidates didn’t respond to requests for comment, including former Michigan Gov. Mitt Romney, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, and retired Georgia businessman Herman Cain.

Presidential candidates who sign the pledge must agree to personal fidelity to his or her spouse, the appointment of “faithful constitutionalists” as judges, opposition to any redefinition of marriage, and prompt reform of uneconomic and anti-marriage aspects of welfare policy, tax policy and divorce law.

The Marriage Vow also outlines support for the legal advocacy for the federal Defense of Marriage Act, humane efforts to protect women and children, rejection of Sharia Islam, safeguards for all married and unmarried U.S. military service members, and commitment to downsizing government and the burden upon American families.

In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”

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728 comments
1 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:29:41pm

Alright, that's it. Stop the country, I wanna get off.

2 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:30:46pm

Robust reproduction sounds like a euphemism for rape.

3 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:31:40pm
“If you are looking at being a leader of our great country….we would like to have you pledge personal fidelity to your own spouse and a respect for the marital bonds of others,”*


*unless by "others" you mean Adam and Steve...

4 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:32:00pm

They can take my pornography from my warm, lubed fingers.

5 SteelGHAZI  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:32:15pm

NOBODY touches my pron!! NOBODY

//

6 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:32:20pm

I love these dumb bigots whose marriages are evidently so weak they need the government to protect them or they'll fall apart.

Rotfl! Assholes.

7 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:32:27pm

Sign the pledge for Kinder, Kirche & Kook.

8 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:32:45pm

what's porn Michele?...your husband licking your privates?, or somebody else's privates?...cough it up baby

9 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:33:20pm

I thought porn was the only thing keeping most marriages together...

10 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:33:23pm

You just could not make this up, if you tried!

11 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:33:50pm

re: #10 Floral Giraffe

You just could not make this up, if you tried!

At this point, even The Onion is going "Jeez, that fucked up."

12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:35:12pm
In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction government-forced childbirth is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”

f.

13 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:35:38pm

The most "religious" of them seem to "hike the appalachian trail" of hike their shoes in mens rooms.

14 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:36:08pm
In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

15 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:36:17pm
In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”

You know, this is sounding a lot like the way many autocratic nations in the 20th century propagandize their own people for the fatherland motherland.

16 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:37:37pm

"Robust Reproduction?" A baby in every womb by 13! That woman is fucking crazy.

17 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:38:03pm

At last, no more burdensome big government same-sex sharia attacks on marriage.

18 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:38:42pm

re: #16 darthstar

"Robust Reproduction?" A baby in every womb by 13! That woman is fucking crazy.

How else is she going to collect those foster parent checks?

19 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:39:00pm

Well, I'll give them this: Robust Reproduction is much better than some insipid, frail partner just lying their with their eyes shut waiting for it to be all over.

20 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:39:29pm

re: #16 darthstar

Only if they are Anglo females. No others need apply.

21 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:39:30pm

re: #15 freetoken

You know, this is sounding a lot like the way many autocratic nations in the 20th century propagandize their own people for the fatherland motherland homeland.

.

22 SpaceJesus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:40:23pm

In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”


oooo, a new sort of wedge to create a state interest for purposes of due process and equal protection in those pesky constitutional cases brought by gays.

23 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:40:29pm

re: #16 darthstar

"Robust Reproduction?" A baby in every womb by 13! That woman is fucking crazy.

But they better not be unmarried, poor wombs, or else that makes the baby Jesus cry.

//

24 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:40:39pm

re: #16 darthstar

"Robust Reproduction?" A baby in every womb by 13! That woman is fucking crazy.

I hope she adopts Casey Anthony into the family...Might as well go all the way in the house of Bat shit crazy and watch it blow...

25 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:40:41pm

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

It's all in how you cultivate the hosts...think Harris Ranch for fetuses.

26 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:41:07pm

Sometimes a Robusto is just a cigar.
[Link: www.topcubans.com...]

27 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:41:17pm

re: #24 HoosierHoops

LOL!
House of batshit crazy!

28 [deleted]  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:42:09pm
29 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:43:03pm

I have lost the ability to comprehend the crazy. I used to be able to at least momentarily pretend I was as crazy as a winger and imagine how what they are saying makes sense from that perspective.

This... this is just fucking nuts.

30 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:43:23pm

re: #28 albusteve

this just in...
Bachmann has no clit

Stay classy San Diego.

31 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:43:25pm

sexual arousal is for monkeys!
MB

32 Interesting Times  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:43:48pm

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

Simple: The only way we can ensure American exceptionalism and greatness is to outbreed those virile Muslim nations.

33 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:44:08pm

re: #29 Fozzie Bear

This one is pretty straightforward.

It is your patriotic duty to have a "full quiver".

God said so, and that settles it.

34 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:44:13pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

Stay classy San Diego.

what?...my nails are Misty Blue tonight

35 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:44:25pm

re: #30 goddamnedfrank

it's Albuquerque, but yes.

36 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:44:59pm

Sort of like the Daughters of the American Revolution. And, oddly enough. This puts Bachmann in the same field as the anti-porn feminists. There was always a strange similarity between those two anti-porn camps.

37 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:45:02pm

re: #28 albusteve

this just in...
Bachmann has no clit

You sure have some stupid fantasies.

38 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:45:26pm

re: #35 Floral Giraffe

it's Albuquerque, but yes.

I'm pissed...I hate these people

39 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:45:48pm

re: #33 freetoken

This one is pretty straightforward.

It is your patriotic duty to have a "full quiver".

God said so, and that settles it.

I guess it's just old-fashioned "blood and soil" bullshit. I didn't think they'd actually start recycling translated Nazi propaganda, but hey, whatever. Nothing surprises me anymore.

40 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:45:58pm

re: #36 Gus 802

Sort of like the Daughters of the American Revolution. And, oddly enough. This puts Bachmann in the same field as the anti-porn feminists. There was always a strange similarity between those two anti-porn camps.

Both give the Puritans a bad name. And it's not like they needed any help in that regard.

41 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:45:59pm

re: #28 albusteve

Dude.

42 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:46:02pm

re: #38 albusteve

Really, do tell?
///and a couple of more /// for you.

43 JamesWI  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:46:51pm

"A Declaration of Dependence"....

These people don't even realize the irony there. Especially when its "dependence" on crazy, extremist religious policies....

44 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:46:56pm

Well, the robust breeding program would explain why Brownback has been turning Kansas into a baby mill.

45 blueraven  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:48:02pm

re: #32 publicityStunted

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

Simple: The only way we can ensure American exceptionalism and greatness is to outbreed those virile Muslim nations.

Milty, is that you?

46 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:48:54pm
In addition, candidates are asked to recognize that “robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.”

My headline:

Michelle Bachmann thinks we should all be having lots and lots of sex.

47 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:49:10pm

re: #32 publicityStunted

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

Simple: The only way we can ensure American exceptionalism and greatness is to outbreed those virile Muslim nations.

And yet...that person gets all indignant about the label "breeder".

48 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:49:25pm

re: #38 albusteve

I'm pissed...I hate these people

If you email her she will pray for you
/Fire in the hole!

49 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:50:02pm

Eugenics!

Robust childrearing and reproduction is beneficial to U.S. demographic, economic, strategic and actuarial health and security.

50 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:50:22pm

re: #48 HoosierHoops

LOL!
Hi you!

51 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:50:40pm

Sort of has a National Socialist ring to it as well.

52 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:51:11pm

Rick Perry's also been sniffing around Vander Plaats.

June 20:
A supporter of possible presidential candidate Rick Perry of Texas telephoned an Iowa conservative leader today, inquiring about the political scene in Iowa.

“They were asking questions, asking my take on Iowa, how things are lining up and also making sure I know they like Rick Perry,” said Bob Vander Plaats, president of the Family Leader, an Iowa-based conservative advocacy group that’s hosting a presidential lecture series.[Link: caucuses.desmoinesregister.com...]

53 researchok  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:51:32pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Sort of has a National Socialist ring to it as well.

I'd rather have the trains run on time.

54 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:51:48pm

Für das Wohl des Vaterlandes Robust Kindererziehung und Reproduktion ist vorteilhaft für US-demographische, wirtschaftliche, strategische und aktuarielle Gesundheit und Sicherheit!

55 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:52:12pm

re: #50 Floral Giraffe

LOL!
Hi you!

Hey you! It's really hot here hope you are well

56 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:52:32pm

re: #35 Floral Giraffe

it's Albuquerque, but yes.

Spanish for a whale's vagina.

Youtube Video
57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:52:39pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Eugenics!

You must start your fitter family, immediately!

And if you don't we'll call you a commie and a f^g!

Well, we'll call you that anyway. But still!

58 researchok  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:52:45pm

re: #54 Gus 802

Für das Wohl des Vaterlandes Robust Kindererziehung und Reproduktion ist vorteilhaft für US-demographische, wirtschaftliche, strategische und aktuarielle Gesundheit und Sicherheit!

Now I need a drink.

59 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:53:12pm

I don't know why they're "rejecting Sharia Islam".

As far as I can tell, there's no difference between "sharia Islam" and the "Family Leader" agenda.

60 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:53:24pm

Colbert Report: Threat Level: Rainbow
The Family Leader's Bob Vander Plaats believes same-sex marriage is just as dangerous as second-hand smoke.

61 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:53:27pm

DEATH TO AROUSAL

62 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:53:41pm

re: #58 researchok

Now I need a drink.

I needed one this morning. /

63 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:54:15pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

NOT going to watch it, but thank you, I think....

64 researchok  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:54:24pm

re: #62 Gus 802

I needed one this morning. /

It's always 5 O'clock somewhere

65 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:54:44pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Eugenics!

Hey now, the Supreme Court said it's a-okay.

/

66 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:55:44pm

re: #65 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hey now, the Supreme Court said it's a-okay.

/

Be fruitful and multiply!

67 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:56:47pm

re: #59 Charles

I don't know why they're "rejecting Sharia Islam".

As far as I can tell, there's no difference between "sharia Islam" and the "Family Leader" agenda.

Only difference I can see is which book of fairy tales they wish to use as the basis for their delusions.

68 researchok  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:57:17pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Only difference I can see is which book of fairy tales they wish to use as the basis for their delusions.

And pork

69 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:57:34pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The Rocky Horror Picture Show?

70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:57:44pm

Bob Vander Plaats quote:

In April 2011, Vander Plaats maintained that homosexuality was a "public health risk", akin to second-hand smoke. Vander Plaats argued that “If we’re teaching the kids, ‘don’t smoke, because that’s a risky health style,’ the same can be true of the homosexual lifestyle”.

Hey, fine with me, just so we get to add the Christian conservative dumb bigot lifestyle to that list.

Being a dumb bigot is hazardous to your health.

71 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:58:08pm

re: #61 albusteve

DEATH TO AROUSAL

You're having a really hard time with this, aren't you Steve?

72 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:58:12pm

re: #66 Gus 802

Be fruitful and multiply!

Or else!!

73 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:58:13pm

re: #59 Charles

I can't understand why more people can't see this irony.

74 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:58:44pm

So does this mean the government will find me a wife with whom to mate and robustly reproduce?

//

75 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:59:00pm

re: #55 HoosierHoops

Heading to Texas next week. 101 daytime low, and 76 night time low.
Brutal.

76 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:59:21pm

re: #71 darthstar

You're having a really hard time with this, aren't you Steve?

not at all...what's good for the goose etc

77 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:59:25pm

re: #59 Charles

I don't know why they're "rejecting Sharia Islam".

As far as I can tell, there's no difference between "sharia Islam" and the "Family Leader" agenda.

Didn't Dinesh D'Souza mention something along those lines almost 10 years ago?

78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:59:36pm

re: #59 Charles

I don't know why they're "rejecting Sharia Islam".

As far as I can tell, there's no difference between "sharia Islam" and the "Family Leader" agenda.

One demands special rights for Muslim bigots. The other demands special rights for Christian bigots.

79 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 8:59:45pm

re: #74 Gus 802

So does this mean the government will find me a wife with whom to mate and robustly reproduce?

//

My tax dollars at work!

/

80 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:00:07pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Heading to Texas next week. 101 daytime low, and 76 night time low.
Brutal.

Good temperatures for conceiving, though.

81 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:00:07pm

One simple question, if by some cataclysmic event of the individuals signing Vander Plaats' manifesto actually getting elected.

Who will be setting social policy for the United States (under force of law) - Bachmann, et al, or will it be the fundamentalist evangelist leaders?

And, if it is the second, exactly how would that scenario be any different than say, Iran or Afghanistan under the Taliban? Honestly, any signators to this are nothing more than puppets to them.

82 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:00:36pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Heading to Texas next week.

Lose a bet?

83 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:00:39pm

re: #80 darthstar

LOL!
Y'all trying?

84 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:00:59pm

Why does Michele Bachmann hate the free market?

These are just a few of the statistics featured in a study conducted by Ogden-based TopTen Reviews. The company claims revenues for the world pornography industry hit an estimated $97 billion in 2006, overshadowing the revenues of the top technology companies — the likes of Microsoft, Google, Yahoo! and Apple — combined.

Incidentally, that article includes possibly THE most hillariously naive sentence I've ever read:

According to the report, 80 percent of 15- to 17-year-olds have had multiple exposures to hard-core pornography, mostly while doing research for homework.

No mom, I swear I was just trying to do my homework and all this hentai came up! And I was trying to find my teacher's email address, and that's why 34 gigs of MILF dominatrix videos accidentally downloaded itself!!

85 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:01:12pm

re: #79 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

My tax dollars at work!

/

Sort of has this western musical from the 1950s feel to it. Fire up the hoedown music! I is goings to gets me a wife!

//

86 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:01:15pm

re: #82 JasonA

Lose a bet?

Nah, missionary. Attempting to take civilization and education to the savages.

//

87 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:01:48pm

re: #81 RadicalModerate

The Ayatollah Family knows best.

88 researchok  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:01:55pm

re: #74 Gus 802

So does this mean the government will find me a wife with whom to mate and robustly reproduce?

//

No, just three red haired triplets boys to raise.

With no TV.

89 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:02:01pm

re: #86 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Will we have to put clothes on?

90 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:02:21pm

"As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species."

-- Idiocracy

91 Four More Tears  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:02:24pm

re: #84 negativ

That made me laugh so hard that I'm still in pain.

92 Lidane  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:03:06pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

I guess it's just old-fashioned "blood and soil" bullshit. I didn't think they'd actually start recycling translated Nazi propaganda, but hey, whatever. Nothing surprises me anymore.

It's the same nonsense that drives the Duggar family to have 19 kids:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

93 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:03:24pm

what's with all the //////?
just say what you wanna say

94 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:03:27pm

re: #84 negativ

Why does Michele Bachmann hate the free market?

Incidentally, that article includes possibly THE most hillariously naive sentence I've ever read:

No mom, I swear I was just trying to do my homework and all this hentai came up! And I was trying to find my teacher's email address, and that's why 34 gigs of MILF dominatrix videos accidentally downloaded itself!!

I laughed so hard I nearly pooped myself. "Mom, it was so disgusting I had to blow my nose 50 times and use an entire bottle of moisturizer! I swear!"

95 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:04:18pm

Get thee to a nunnery!

//

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:04:22pm

re: #89 jaunte

Will we have to put clothes on?

That will be decided on a case-by-case basis.

/

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:06:16pm

re: #81 RadicalModerate

One simple question, if by some cataclysmic event of the individuals signing Vander Plaats' manifesto actually getting elected.

Who will be setting social policy for the United States (under force of law) - Bachmann, et al, or will it be the fundamentalist evangelist leaders?

And, if it is the second, exactly how would that scenario be any different than say, Iran or Afghanistan under the Taliban? Honestly, any signators to this are nothing more than puppets to them.

Thing I keep in mind is, a lot of those dumb bigots hate each other even more than they hate the rest of us. So they will spend all of their time bickering with each other, as usual, as to whose prayers to pray in the schools, what magical words to say at the end, whose denominations will get the fattest off the government cash cow of Faith-Based Initiatives, etc.

This is why we have the 1st Amendment to begin with, to keep those people from chopping each other's heads off like they used to do.

Michele Bachmann isn't even qualified, by her own denomination's definition, to be a pastor of a 5-person church. Same for most of those rwnj denominations. They are on a serious collision course with cognitive dissonance. The crash will not be pretty.

98 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:06:37pm

Bachmann/Octomom 2012

//

99 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:07:30pm

re: #98 Gus 802

Bachmann/Octomom 2012

//

Octomom is busy carrying Bachmann's entire cabinet right now.

100 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:07:33pm

re: #2 goddamnedfrank

Robust reproduction sounds like a euphemism for rape.

More a "barefoot and pregnant" euphemism, IMO.

101 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:07:42pm

re: #75 Floral Giraffe

Heading to Texas next week. 101 daytime low, and 76 night time low.
Brutal.

I'd go local, but Death Valley has too much culture for those seeking a truly fresh hell.

102 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:07:42pm

re: #93 albusteve

what's with all the ///?
just say what you wanna say

What do you mean?

//

103 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:08:27pm

re: #93 albusteve

what's with all the ///?
just say what you wanna say

And if people wanna be sarc?

104 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:09:03pm

re: #92 Lidane

It's the same nonsense that drives the Duggar family to have 19 kids:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Those are some seriously messed up people. The world really needs to increase the human population as quickly as possible. That will totally fix all our problems. /

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:09:09pm

re: #92 Lidane

It's the same nonsense that drives the Duggar family to have 19 kids:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Exactly. It's Fundie instead of Nazi. They have points of intersection, but they start from different first principles.

106 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:09:19pm

re: #94 Fozzie Bear

I laughed so hard I nearly pooped myself. "Mom, it was so disgusting I had to blow my nose 50 times and use an entire bottle of moisturizer! I swear!"

And tissues!

107 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:09:29pm

re: #102 Gus 802

What do you mean?

//

I'm all about////
what do you mean? ///
///

108 blueraven  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:10:15pm

re: #60 jaunte

Colbert Report: Threat Level: Rainbow
The Family Leader's Bob Vander Plaats believes same-sex marriage is just as dangerous as second-hand smoke.


LOL!
And John Kyle is gay
(not intended to be a factual statement)

109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:10:47pm

re: #105 Dark_Falcon

Exactly. It's Fundie instead of Nazi. They have points of intersection, but they start from different first principles.

Lol they have different root causes.

(Or do they.)

110 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:11:36pm

re: #104 Fozzie Bear

Those are some seriously messed up people. The world really needs to increase the human population as quickly as possible. That will totally fix all our problems. /

Well, its good to hold having children in high regard, since they are the future and a culture that seeks to survive will encourage them. But those people take the idea to insane extremes.

111 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:11:57pm

re: #108 blueraven

LOL!
And John Kyle is gay
(not intended to be a factual statement)

BO is gay too///
///
///

112 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:13:47pm

re: #88 researchok

No, just three red haired triplets boys to raise.

With no TV.


"What do you need with TV when you've got the Bible?"

-- My dad

113 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:14:03pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

Well, its good to hold having children in high regard, since they are the future and a culture that seeks to survive will encourage them. But those people take the idea to insane extremes.

We need enough to have a next generation. I don't think there is any danger we won't meet that requirement accidentally as a species. I mean, we are hardwired to screw, so it's not like it requires any kind of dogma to keep that train rolling.

If anything, our species could do with producing less than the recruitment rate for a few dozen generations.

114 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:14:39pm

re: #109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol they have different root causes.

(Or do they.)

They do. The Fundie approach is born of a literalist interpretation o the Bible. The Nazi approach is the product of Germany's intense type of nationalism, coupled with that nations defeat in WWI and allied to Adolf Hitler's paranoia about Jews (though that itself was linked in part to German nationalism).

115 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:15:20pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

Well, its good to hold having children in high regard, since they are the future and a culture that seeks to survive will encourage them. But those people take the idea to insane extremes.

but what is high regard?...systematically polluting their minds?
///
///

116 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:15:52pm

OK, I have to watch myself before I pull a Godwin. It's tempting though.

117 blueraven  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:16:15pm

re: #111 albusteve

BO is gay too///
///
///

You know, I was channeling Colbert from jaunte's link...it was a joke. Is that OK with you Mr?

118 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:16:56pm

re: #117 blueraven

You know, I was channeling Colbert from jaunte's link...it was a joke. Is that OK with you Mr?

sure
///

119 blueraven  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:18:08pm

re: #118 albusteve

sure
///

Thanks. /

120 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:19:05pm

It's that time again. Every time Steve puts his onion belt on an angel gets their colostomy bag.

121 KingKenrod  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:19:29pm

I found the actual pledge here. It starts off with this gem:

Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an AfricanAmerican baby born after the election of the USA‟s first African-American President.

122 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:19:36pm

CBN kissing up to Vander Plaats:

Youtube Video
123 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:19:39pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

It's that time again. Every time Steve puts his onion belt on an angel gets their colostomy bag.

yup////

124 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:19:58pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

LOL!

125 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:20:06pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

It's that time again. Every time Steve puts his onion belt on an angel gets their colostomy bag.

Frank, do I even want to know where the skyline is on this one?

126 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:20:40pm

re: #114 Dark_Falcon

They do. The Fundie approach is born of a literalist interpretation o the Bible. The Nazi approach is the product of Germany's intense type of nationalism, coupled with that nations defeat in WWI and allied to Adolf Hitler's paranoia about Jews (though that itself was linked in part to German nationalism).

Not a whole lot different from confederate Christian mentality, in my book.

Both cling to imaginary, fictitious absolutes.

Both are intent on special rights for themselves, and curtailed rights (or no rights, depending) for everyone else.

There are other parallels, but generally, I feel they are unnecessary anyway, since we have our own history of nasty, supremacist, eliminationist bigots rightchere.

127 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:20:45pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

I don't think so!
*waves to both*

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:21:22pm

re: #14 Fozzie Bear

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

White, middle-class wimmin need to have more babies.

(I speak Michele.)

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:21:37pm

re: #32 publicityStunted

I can't make any sense of this no matter how many times I read it.

Yep, the great race to theocracy --Christian or Muslim. wish I could remember which Lizard first said it. He/she deserves multiple updings.

How is everyone this evening?

130 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:22:15pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

Frank, do I even want to know where the skyline is on this one?

Franks efforts to dislike me are 3rd rate...I guess he never read the albusteve vs Ludwig threads....pffft!

131 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:22:32pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

White, middle-class wimmin need to have more babies.

(I speak Michele.)

No way. They mean all races. It's a multi-cultural pledge for sure!

//

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:22:41pm

re: #121 KingKenrod

I found the actual pledge here. It starts off with this gem:

Until one member of the family was sold . and never heard from again.

Trying to set the stage for the return of subjugation of "groups" of individuals?

WTF?

133 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:23:35pm

and I like Lidwig

134 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:23:48pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

White, middle-class wimmin need to have more babies.

(I speak Michele.)

Well, I honestly think that is actually true. But I'm not in favor of getting there with coercion. I'd like to try reducing the cost of raising children (without huge government programs, I add swiftly).

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:24:46pm

re: #121 KingKenrod

I found the actual pledge here. It starts off with this gem:

...

Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an AfricanAmerican baby born after the election of the USA‟s first African-American President.

Lol that old canard, again.

These are the same people trying to tell us that the act of exercising one's hard-won right to vote for one party or another is the same as being on a plantation.

a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household

Yes. Being the property of God's Favorite Patriots, who could sell off members of your family at will, sure is preferable to living as free people in 2011.

Rotfl! Dumb confederate conservative bigots.

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:25:00pm

bbiab

137 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:25:08pm

Vander Plaats is pretty straightforward on what he claims is the source for the Family Leader's positions. Here is a vid from a week ago (they're redoing their website and putting up new videos too):

Youtube Video

Start around 1:30

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:25:23pm

re: #20 dell*nix

Only if they are Anglo females. No others need apply.

Anglo females, married and able to pay for everything those kids need, because, by God, while their kids may be necessary to the nation's health, the nation, by God, ain't gonna pay for kids that those people decided to have on their own. People owe us kids, but we don't owe the kids anything.

139 KingKenrod  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:25:29pm

re: #132 ggt

Until one member of the family was sold . and never heard from again.

Trying to set the stage for the return of subjugation of "groups" of individuals?

WTF?

They're actually saying black families were better off as slaves than they are now. WTF indeed.

140 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:26:44pm

re: #126 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not a whole lot different from confederate Christian mentality, in my book.

Both cling to imaginary, fictitious absolutes.

Both are intent on special rights for themselves, and curtailed rights (or no rights, depending) for everyone else.

There are other parallels, but generally, I feel they are unnecessary anyway, since we have our own history of nasty, supremacist, eliminationist bigots rightchere.

There are significant differences (the Confederacy did not buy into Nazi-type absolutism for white people, not at all) but perhaps the biggest one is national appeal. While Nazism was able to expand into all of Germany, the fundies have seen a much more regional appeal and in many places aren't visilbe hardly at all.

141 jaunte  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:27:02pm

re: #121 KingKenrod

I found the actual pledge here. It starts off with this gem:

Slavery had a disastrous impact on African-American families, yet sadly a child born into slavery in 1860 was more likely to be raised by his mother and father in a two-parent household than was an AfricanAmerican baby born after the election of the USA‟s first African-American President.


Slave-family nostalgia. Now there's some real insanity.

142 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:27:25pm

re: #139 KingKenrod

They're actually saying black families were better off as slaves than they are now. WTF indeed.

King Cotton
song me the blues

143 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:27:26pm

OT, but I just looked at the number of fatalities in the Arab Spring.

So far, the minimum number of dead is 16,954. 76% of this is from Libya. Both Yemen and Syria have killed over 1,000 (1,016+ in Yemen, 1,678+ in Syria). Tunisia, who started this, had 223. Egypt had 846 dead. Based on the number of missing, combined with those outright dead, there are 104 killed in Bahrain. Other nations had less than 50.

144 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:27:41pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

You got them down pat.

145 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:27:47pm

re: #39 Fozzie Bear

I guess it's just old-fashioned "blood and soil" bullshit. I didn't think they'd actually start recycling translated Nazi propaganda, but hey, whatever. Nothing surprises me anymore.

At least the Nazis gave out medals.

No, wait, forget I said that...I'm having a vision of Mrs. Duggar receiving some gaudy decoration with a pink ribbon.

146 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:28:56pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

White, middle-class wimmin need to have more babies.

(I speak Michele.)

Frighteningly well!

147 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:28:58pm

re: #40 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Both give the Puritans a bad name. And it's not like they needed any help in that regard.

The Puritans were hung up about all sorts of things, but oddly, not that much about sex.

148 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:30:13pm

re: #46 JasonA

My headline:

Michelle Bachmann thinks we should all be having lots and lots of sex.

I once called my doctor in a panic after a birth control malfunction. I started with "My boyfriend and I were having sex," and I didn't get any farther, because my sweet, German-raised Jewish general practitioner said, "That's wonderful!"

149 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:30:53pm

re: #139 KingKenrod

They're actually saying black families were better off as slaves than they are now. WTF indeed.

My Standing Answer to Neo-Confederates:

Youtube Video
150 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:30:56pm

re: #147 SanFranciscoZionist

If I remember correctly from a book I heard about, the Puritans did value education.

I also remember the book was talking about the many in the south being the descendants of the English Cavaliers.

151 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:32:21pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

There used to be videos on Youtube on that subject if I recall. Also a breeding program with the Waffen SS and assorted young ladies. There was an article about a young woman that tried to find out about her parents and discovered that she was a result of that policy.

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:33:16pm

re: #59 Charles

I don't know why they're "rejecting Sharia Islam".

As far as I can tell, there's no difference between "sharia Islam" and the "Family Leader" agenda.

Bernard Lewis says that what Islam and Judaism have in common is religious legal systems, and what Islam and Christianity have in common is triumphalism. Clearly, this is broad sweeping statement, but it applies here.

It's not that they object to sharia, it's just that they accept a clash of religious civilizations, and aim to win.

153 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:33:22pm

re: #148 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!
You do tell the funniest stories!
*smooch*

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:34:07pm

re: #78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

One demands special rights for Muslim bigots. The other demands special rights for Christian bigots.

And if you are either of those things, that is a CRUCIAL difference.

155 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:34:20pm

OK, found this which is from Mein Kampf:

"What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and the reproduction of our race...so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe..."

156 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:34:27pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

TFL quotes, ironically, said Lewis in the footnotes to their Pledge.

157 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:34:51pm

re: #151 dell*nix

There used to be videos on Youtube on that subject if I recall. Also a breeding program with the Waffen SS and assorted young ladies. There was an article about a young woman that tried to find out about her parents and discovered that she was a result of that policy.

it's no joke, the Soviets tried it as well....no secret

158 Etaoin Shrdlu  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:35:35pm

‘the appointment of “faithful constitutionalists” as judges’

Except for inconvenient parts like the 1st and 14th amendments.

159 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:37:02pm

re: #157 albusteve

it's no joke, the Soviets tried it as well...no secret

of course we are crackpots to even suggest such a thing

160 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:37:28pm

re: #157 albusteve

Part of Lysenko's theories?

Also the movie Archangel. Wherein Stalin had the secret police sort thru medical records to find a perfect breeding female for him to have a child by.

161 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:37:49pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

Bernard Lewis says that what Islam and Judaism have in common is religious legal systems, and what Islam and Christianity have in common is triumphalism. Clearly, this is broad sweeping statement, but it applies here.

It's not that they object to sharia, it's just that they accept a clash of religious civilizations, and aim to win.

I'd actually call it a 'missionary outlook'. Both Christianity and Islam have, in almost all their forms, an intense desire to share their worldview and faith and thus gain converts. For the most part, this is a good thing, but when it turns violent it is very dangerous.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:38:14pm

re: #121 KingKenrod

I found the actual pledge here. It starts off with this gem:

I can't even snark. Holy shit.

163 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:38:35pm

re: #158 Etaoin Shrdlu

‘the appointment of “faithful constitutionalists” as judges’

Except for inconvenient parts like the 1st and 14th amendments.

They aren't very clear on other parts either.

Barton: US Should Use Biblical Justice, Just As The Constitution Says

164 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:38:44pm

re: #155 Gus 802

Let's tie Michele Bachmann to the Republicans at large, and then that the quote you just provided, which sounds almost identical. The Democrats need to turn the tables, and call the other side Un-American and traitors.

165 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:39:17pm

re: #139 KingKenrod

They're actually saying black families were better off as slaves than they are now. WTF indeed.

How long before that turns into, they "need to be slaves again? It's better for their children?"

There are people who think that way and they vote.

gah!

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:39:36pm

re: #134 Dark_Falcon

Well, I honestly think that is actually true. But I'm not in favor of getting there with coercion. I'd like to try reducing the cost of raising children (without huge government programs, I add swiftly).

I think it should be more affordable to have kids...and I don't mind maybe medium-sized government programs.

167 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:39:47pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

"share" may be something of an understatement for both.

168 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:39:58pm

re: #160 dell*nix

Part of Lysenko's theories?

Also the movie Archangel. Wherein Stalin had the secret police sort thru medical records to find a perfect breeding female for him to have a child by.

yeah, they did all that and more...but in this day of BO worship, all that is impossible

169 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:40:03pm

re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They aren't very clear on other parts either.

Barton: US Should Use Biblical Justice, Just As The Constitution Says

Remember when these same folks were going nuts months back about the suggestion that the Constitution has (IRC) "Islamic ideals" written into it?

170 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:40:23pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't even snark. Holy shit.

Whats funny is that if you take the vow, you promise to fight the vow.

"Rejection of Sharia Islam and all other anti-woman, anti-human rights forms of totalitarian control."

171 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:41:05pm

Signing such a pledge is a de facto endorsement of supporting government policy regulating the sexual reproduction of its citizens. People should be free to reproduce or not reproduce, in large part, as the please. Women should also be free to have or not have an abortion as they see fit and within standard medical practice. No presidential candidate should ever sign a pledge endorsing the guidance of reproductive habits in it citizens. It's downright Un-American and smells of nationalism no matter how you slice it.

172 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:42:02pm

re: #171 Gus 802

Signing such a pledge is a de facto endorsement of supporting government policy regulating the sexual reproduction of its citizens. People should be free to reproduce or not reproduce, in large part, as the please. Women should also be free to have or not have an abortion as they see fit and within standard medical practice. No presidential candidate should ever sign a pledge endorsing the guidance of reproductive habits in it citizens. It's downright Un-American and smells of nationalism no matter how you slice it.

It also pretty much shoots to shit the whole "small government" BS.

173 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:42:51pm

As the sole computer-savvy member of my county VFD, tonight I have yet again had to de-bug the station PC because of the injudicious--and prolific--consumption of pornography on insecure and spyware-saturated porn sites. What really awes me is that they: (1) absolutely refuse to listen to my advice on how to find porn without turning the PC into a virus-infested zombie, (2) pretend that they didn't do it, no matter what the browser history and cookies say.

I know far more about what the (R)-voting, god-fearing, family-values, good-Christian men of my hometown are into than I ever wished.

Ban porn and I'll make a fortune racketeering.

174 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:42:55pm

re: #141 jaunte

Slave-family nostalgia. Now there's some real insanity.

Little nuclear slave families, sitting around the hearth, united by their love of God...

This is where revisionism starts to require "White Rabbit" as a soundtrack.

175 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:44:14pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Little nuclear slave families, sitting around the hearth, united by their love of God...

This is where revisionism starts to require "White Rabbit" as a soundtrack.

What hearth? I don't think a whole lot of those slave shacks had chimneys . . .

176 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:44:58pm

re: #173 The Ghost of a Flea

Create separate logins for everyone - tell them it's so they can have a private browsing history...then show them their cookies from the porn sites the next time you have to clean the jizz off the hard drive.

177 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:45:47pm

re: #176 darthstar

Create separate logins for everyone - tell them it's so they can have a private browsing history...then show them their cookies from the porn sites the next time you have to clean the jizz off the hard drive.

Or create a virtual machine, let them use that to browse, then just dump that every day or so.

178 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:45:51pm

re: #175 ggt

What hearth? I don't think a whole lot of those slave shacks had chimneys . . .

from this background, we have the Delta blues...not all was lost

179 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:46:00pm

re: #164 ProLifeLiberal

Let's tie Michele Bachmann to the Republicans at large, and then that the quote you just provided, which sounds almost identical. The Democrats need to turn the tables, and call the other side Un-American and traitors.

Horseshit. Mitt Romney doesn't think that way, nor Tim Pawlenty (he might sign that pledge, though and more fool he if he does), and Senators McCain, Kirk and Ayotte certainly do not. That's like saying Barack Obama is just like Pete Stark or Maxine Waters.

180 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:46:27pm

re: #145 SanFranciscoZionist

At least the Nazis gave out medals.

No, wait, forget I said that...I'm having a vision of Mrs. Duggar receiving some gaudy decoration with a pink ribbon.

This is not to say that the Duggars are Nazis. As far as I can tell, the Duggars are decent people, committed to a life that would cause me to be committed.

That said, a small thought experiment. We've all been asked to consider what if the Tea Party was black.

What if the DUGGARS were black? Same people, same finances, same religious beliefs, same terrible taste in baby names.

How would they be viewed? Would they be viewed? Does this family get a TV show?

181 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:46:31pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

There are significant differences (the Confederacy did not buy into Nazi-type absolutism for white people, not at all)

Uh-huh.

That's why so many of them implemented Black Codes, anti-miscegenation statues, Racial Integrity laws, One Drop Laws, and taxpayer-funded, forced segregation/white rule in every facet of public life. // Don't like it? Hemp rope 4 u.

It wasn't just the Confederate/former Confederate states, and wasn't solely against Blacks, either. Not by any stretch.

but perhaps the biggest one is national appeal. While Nazism was able to expand into all of Germany, the fundies have seen a much more regional appeal and in many places aren't visilbe hardly at all.

I don't think so. For starters, the OP is about Iowa. Also depends on which "fundies" you mean. They are a pretty diverse and spread out bunch.

Televangelism took root in CA via Aimee Semple McPherson long before Robertson and Roberts. TBN is also out of California, as are some of the more name-recognition megachurches.

Not to mention the LDS in the west. Lots to it.

182 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:46:51pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

I'd actually call it a 'missionary outlook'. Both Christianity and Islam have, in almost all their forms, an intense desire to share their worldview and faith and thus gain converts. For the most part, this is a good thing, but when it turns violent it is very dangerous.

Somehow I learned that "people will know you by your actions". A true religious person shouldn't have to subjugate others to their way of thinking. It should be more of an attraction.

I guess there is more money in forced religion . . .

183 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:48:45pm

re: #173 The Ghost of a Flea

Do they have MS specific programs they have to use?

If not, then I might suggest one of the easier to use Linux varients. A lot less subject to viri and script kiddies. Not totally immune, but a lot safer. Also, you can require login names and passwords to keep track of who does what. And limit who can be admin permitted.

184 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:49:13pm

re: #179 Dark_Falcon

Politics became personal or me years ago. Years of being called Un-American, a traitor, and being told to leave this country by Republicans in both Colorado Springs and Oklahoma made be viciously bitter against the other side.

I want to dish out what I went through, and see how they like it. This is want for vengeance. The only way I differ from many Democrats I managed to know at OU is that I tend to be far more aggressive.

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:49:39pm

re: #163 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They aren't very clear on other parts either.

Barton: US Should Use Biblical Justice, Just As The Constitution Says

Can someone show me where in the Bible it says anything about the right to an attorney, OR habeus corpus?

Also, the examples he uses there are nuts. Naboth was (successfully) framed by a crooked monarch's wife, and the others would all have taken place under Roman law.

186 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:49:50pm

re: #175 ggt

What hearth? I don't think a whole lot of those slave shacks had chimneys . . .

Interestingly, those on Jefferson Davis' plantation and those of his brother's all did. But Davis was actually reckoned thoughtful as a slave owner, and believed that slaves actually given a halfway decent living space would be more effective workers. Many however, were the tiny slave cabins built by owners who showed no such insight, and those were indeed crude and cruel.

/Short history lesson

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:49:56pm

re: #164 ProLifeLiberal

Let's tie Michele Bachmann to the Republicans at large, and then that the quote you just provided, which sounds almost identical. The Democrats need to turn the tables, and call the other side Un-American and traitors.

I'd so like to not go there.

188 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:50:06pm

Watching the first Harry Potter movie right now...Christ they look young.

189 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:50:49pm

re: #184 ProLifeLiberal

Politics became personal or me years ago. Years of being called Un-American, a traitor, and being told to leave this country by Republicans in both Colorado Springs and Oklahoma made be viciously bitter against the other side.

I want to dish out what I went through, and see how they like it. This is want for vengeance. The only way I differ from many Democrats I managed to know at OU is that I tend to be far more aggressive.

get a life...net politics is a dead end

190 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:50:49pm

re: #168 albusteve

yeah, they did all that and more...but in this day of BO worship, all that is impossible

Well, yes, it is. Because if Michelle finds out that the Secret Service is going through medical records to find the perfect woman for Barack to have a baby with, Joe Biden will be the new president.

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:50:52pm

These WHACKOS don't need to be given an inch. They'll start with big tent then slowly whittle it down to some insane system of labeling and purging. In the end it will be white men, 6ft +, with size 13 shoes only, who never lived in NYC and whose entire family and list of friend has been HIV free for two generations .and have never been accused of having a parking ticket . . .

Feel free to add your own stipulations.

192 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:51:23pm

re: #181 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sister Aimee had a song written about her and a certain mattress in Carmel by the sea.

193 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:51:34pm

Essentially spitting on the 1st Amendment and the Establishment Clause.

194 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:51:45pm

re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist

Little nuclear slave families, sitting around the hearth, united by their love of God...

They really do believe in that.

Anyone who doesn't think so, tell them Gone With the Wind and Song of the South were just movies and prepare for an earful.

Lol jackasses.

195 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:51:51pm

re: #184 ProLifeLiberal

Politics became personal or me years ago. Years of being called Un-American, a traitor, and being told to leave this country by Republicans in both Colorado Springs and Oklahoma made be viciously bitter against the other side.

I want to dish out what I went through, and see how they like it. This is want for vengeance. The only way I differ from many Democrats I managed to know at OU is that I tend to be far more aggressive.

Then you and I have a problem, because I don't cotton to being called a traitor by association.

196 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:51:56pm

re: #175 ggt

What hearth? I don't think a whole lot of those slave shacks had chimneys . . .

But BOTH PARENTS were there!!!!!

197 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:52:09pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

Interestingly, those on Jefferson Davis' plantation and those of his brother's all did. But Davis was actually reckoned thoughtful as a slave owner, and believed that slaves actually given a halfway decent living space would be more effective workers. Many however, were the tiny slave cabins built by owners who showed no such insight, and those were indeed crude and cruel.

/Short history lesson

Davis was a head of his time. An 19th century Henry Ford?

198 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:52:32pm

re: #189 albusteve

Oh, I do this in the real world too. If some College Republican tries to preach at me, I usually start tearing into them.

199 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:52:36pm

re: #188 darthstar

Watching the first Harry Potter movie right now...Christ they look young.

Audio book was much, much better.

200 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:52:39pm

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, yes, it is. Because if Michelle finds out that the Secret Service is going through medical records to find the perfect woman for Barack to have a baby with, Joe Biden will be the new president.

I'm sure you will keep me posted about such profound enlightenment

201 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:53:32pm

re: #184 ProLifeLiberal

Politics became personal or me years ago. Years of being called Un-American, a traitor, and being told to leave this country by Republicans in both Colorado Springs and Oklahoma made be viciously bitter against the other side.

I want to dish out what I went through, and see how they like it. This is want for vengeance. The only way I differ from many Democrats I managed to know at OU is that I tend to be far more aggressive.

I understand the resentment and the anger--I've got some of that myself. But we need to ramp down the cycle, not ramp it up.

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:53:44pm

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

But BOTH PARENTS were there!!!

What about when the father was the Slave Owner?

203 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:53:48pm

re: #193 Gus 802

Essentially spitting on the 1st Amendment and the Establishment Clause.

Not big fans of Article VI either;

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

204 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:54:27pm

re: #195 Dark_Falcon

You are one of a few people I put into an exceptional category. Along with some I know in the real world.

Everyone else is fair game until proven otherwise.

205 darthstar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:54:32pm

re: #202 ggt

What about when the father was the Slave Owner?

He could still be a robust reproducer.

206 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:55:15pm

re: #203 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not big fans of Article VI either;

Silly, we don't let things like the specifics of the Constitution get in the way. We work in the spirit of the Constitution as it was intended by our devoutly Christian Founding Father demi-gods.

/

207 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:55:29pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

I say the opposite. Show the other side what pain and crap is being thrown our way. Only then will things calm down.

208 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:55:41pm

re: #204 ProLifeLiberal

You are one of a few people I put into an exceptional category. Along with some I know in the real world.

Everyone else is fair game until proven otherwise.

guilty until proven innocent?

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:55:44pm

re: #194 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They really do believe in that.

Anyone who doesn't think so, tell them Gone With the Wind and Song of the South were just movies and prepare for an earful.

Lol jackasses.

That's disturbing in the extreme.

210 labman57  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:56:47pm

I find most of her speeches to be pornography -- her words are obscene, they offend my sensibilities and have no redeeming social value.

211 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:57:10pm

re: #197 ggt

Davis was a head of his time. An 19th century Henry Ford?

No, his mind still favored the backward system of slavery. But you can think someone else inferior and still believe that they'd be more effective if they were not brutalized. Davis had strong points as a leader, but his trust in some officers he should not have trusted (Pemberton heading the list, with John Bell Hood right behind) was a serious flaw, as was his inability to see past the slave system.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:58:46pm

re: #202 ggt

What about when the father was the Slave Owner?

Really good question, isn't it?

This is American slavery—no marriage—no education—the light of the Gospel shut out from the dark mind of the bondman—and he forbidden by law to learn to read. If a mother shall teach her children to read, the law in Louisiana proclaims that she may be hanged by the neck. (Sensation.) If the father attempt to give his son a knowledge of letters, he may be punished by the whip in one instance, and in another be killed, at the discretion of the court. Three millions of people shut out from the light of knowledge! It is easy for you to conceive the evil that must result from such a state of things. (Hear, hear.)

When you have to quote Frederick Douglass AGAINST people, you start to wonder.

213 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:58:53pm

you know what surprises me once in a while?...what people consider important in their lives...I dig logging on to hear these sob stories about how some pols are ruining their lives...boohoo...the internet is my life! and what I gleam from the net I am...LOL!

214 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:59:13pm

re: #207 ProLifeLiberal

I say the opposite. Show the other side what pain and crap is being thrown our way. Only then will things calm down.

It doesn't work that way. Throw an extreme accusation at someone, and their reaction is far more likely to be hostile or even violent than reflective. Your plan would make things worse, IMO.

215 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 9:59:48pm

re: #208 ggt

With the way the politicians at the top act and my personal experiences with some Republicans, it's better to be safe than sorry.

216 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:01:13pm

re: #212 SanFranciscoZionist

Really good question, isn't it?

This is American slavery—no marriage—no education—the light of the Gospel shut out from the dark mind of the bondman—and he forbidden by law to learn to read. If a mother shall teach her children to read, the law in Louisiana proclaims that she may be hanged by the neck. (Sensation.) If the father attempt to give his son a knowledge of letters, he may be punished by the whip in one instance, and in another be killed, at the discretion of the court. Three millions of people shut out from the light of knowledge! It is easy for you to conceive the evil that must result from such a state of things. (Hear, hear.)

When you have to quote Frederick Douglass AGAINST people, you start to wonder.

I have found it interesting that only in the American South were slaves not baptized or allowed to marry in the RC church, despite the Popes insistence on it. In South American and the Islands, they kept two different books in the Church records --one for blacks and one for whites.

How can you consider yourself a Chrisitan (or any religion) and actively keep people away from the religion?

Money and Power --I know. . . . .

217 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:01:35pm

re: #213 albusteve

you know what surprises me once in a while?...what people consider important in their lives...I dig logging on to hear these sob stories about how some pols are ruining their lives...boohoo...the internet is my life! and what I gleam from the net I am...LOL!

Hey. Apparently I ruin some people's lives just by having commented on LGF.

//

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:02:15pm

re: #217 Gus 802

Hey. Apparently I ruin some people's lives just by having commented on LGF.

//

And you feel good about that, don't you?

:)

219 albusteve  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:03:03pm

re: #217 Gus 802

Hey. Apparently I ruin some people's lives just by having commented on LGF.

//

you give yourself too much credit

220 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:03:16pm

re: #218 ggt

And you feel good about that, don't you?

:)

Yep. I think about them and what I've said my every waking moment.

//

221 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:04:01pm

re: #219 albusteve

you give yourself too much credit

Everytime I floss my tooth.

//

222 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:06:39pm

OT: But a comment I made earlier about a book (Turns out to be Albion's Seed) sent me looking for the articles I originally read on the subject.

I didn't find the articles themselves. I did find an article (well sourced) from the DKos making the case that the core Republicans/Tea Party are descendants of the Borderers from England/Scotland.

Here it is.

223 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:07:25pm

I note that the vow reads "robust childrearing," not "childbearing."

I'm reading this as giving cover to strict disciplinarians, but maybe I'm taking it too far down the direction it's going.

224 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:08:26pm

re: #180 SanFranciscoZionist

How would they be viewed? Would they be viewed? Does this family get a TV show?

Yes.

If the Black Duggars do things like

rail against the Voting Rights Act and Affirmative Action,

invoke *actual* slavery to imply 95% of Black voters have no personal freedom of our own (unlike the 17 people who vote for the party of Confederates, I guess)

claim Blacks have poor moral character, and should be silent when white conservatives "tell the truth" about us

agree to be the face of unhinged religious-based hate, yes, they would definitely get a show. Not only that, they would be raised on a pedestal as the true Leaders of The Blacks™, the only ones we are to follow, or else.

(Please note the lack of ///'s)

225 efuseakay  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:10:59pm

Eugenics... hmmm... I seem to remember someone trying that very same thing more than half a century ago...

226 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:11:46pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

Interestingly, those on Jefferson Davis' plantation and those of his brother's all did. But Davis was actually reckoned thoughtful as a slave owner, and believed that slaves actually given a halfway decent living space would be more effective workers. Many however, were the tiny slave cabins built by owners who showed no such insight, and those were indeed crude and cruel.

Kinder, gentler denial of rights, basic humanity, and forced servitude in perpetuity.

That's sweet.

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:14:03pm

re: #226 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Kinder, gentler denial of rights, basic humanity, and forced servitude in perpetuity.

That's sweet.

I have to wonder what crime stats would be if every rape, torture and killing of slaves were recorded and compared to today's crime stats.

Seriel killers etc always existed, but killing a lot of slaves didn't count . . .

228 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:14:20pm

re: #225 efuseakay

Eugenics... hmmm... I seem to remember someone trying that very same thing more than half a century ago...

Those were gay socialist Europeans though.
/

229 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:14:58pm

re: #227 ggt

Never thought of that.

Some sociology student somewhere has work to do.

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:15:12pm

re: #228 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Those were gay socialist Europeans though.
/

Naw, it was all Margarget Sanger and her evil plot to rid the world of non-whites.

////

231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:15:13pm

re: #223 BongCrodny

I note that the vow reads "robust childrearing," not "childbearing."

I'm reading this as giving cover to strict disciplinarians, but maybe I'm taking it too far down the direction it's going.

I don't think so. That's the first thing that caught my eye. These dumb bigots don't deserve the benefits of doubts.

It's not like they give such benefits to anyone else.

232 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:17:03pm

Interestingly, the last item of the pledge reads as follows:

Fierce defense of the First Amendment‟s rights of Religious Liberty and Freedom of Speech, especially against the intolerance of any who would undermine law-abiding American citizens and institutions of faith and conscience for their adherence to, and defense of, faithful heterosexual monogamy.

Rather a bit of projection there.

233 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:17:29pm

re: #227 ggt

Actually, I just had another thought, semi-related.

Why are Serial Killers (in the US) disproportionately White Males?

234 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:17:32pm

re: #231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think so. That's the first thing that caught my eye. These dumb bigots don't deserve the benefits of doubts.

It's not like they give such benefits to anyone else.

I think it's an attempt to promote responsible parenting. You know, like making sure your kid goes to sleep on time, does their homework, goes to church and bible study.

Mostly I agree with the concept, I see far to many kids out and about when I think they should be in bed. I don't particularly like the idea of a government standard of parenting.

Social services has enough work to do as it is.

235 Timmeh  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:18:05pm

Is the "humane efforts to protect women and children" a euphemism for banning pornography?

Where does it say about banning pornography?

236 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:18:55pm

re: #233 ProLifeLiberal

Actually, I just had another thought, semi-related.

Why are Serial Killers (in the US) disproportionately White Males?

the more repressed, the more perverted?

237 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:19:45pm

re: #235 Timmeh

Is the "humane efforts to protect women and children" a euphemism for banning pornography?

Where does it say about banning pornography?

Sounds like a reason to put them in a gilded cage. Much like the humane society puts dogs and cats in cages and takes care of them.

238 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:19:53pm

re: #226 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Kinder, gentler denial of rights, basic humanity, and forced servitude in perpetuity.

That's sweet.

I didn't say he was a good guy as a slaveholder, he wasn't. I was just adding some historical detail. I know a lot about the Civil War and its major personalities. I thought the details worth posting, nothing more than that.

239 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:21:08pm

re: #233 ProLifeLiberal

Actually, I just had another thought, semi-related.

Why are Serial Killers (in the US) disproportionately White Males?


They hear the Voices better.

240 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:21:16pm

re: #227 ggt

I have to wonder what crime stats would be if every rape, torture and killing of slaves were recorded and compared to today's crime stats.

Seriel killers etc always existed, but killing a lot of slaves didn't count . . .

I don't think so. If anything, stats would indeed be kept, because it's property/investment loss.

And we know how some of these people get when their property/investment is threatened. /eyeroll

Same for insurance of "the property". AETNA, for one, apologized. That was sweet of them.

One of the reasons the bigots DESPISE the NAACP is because they would do things like keep stats of lynchings and publish the reports, because no one in the liberal socialist progressive media would.

241 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:22:00pm

re: #233 ProLifeLiberal

Actually, I just had another thought, semi-related.

Why are Serial Killers (in the US) disproportionately White Males?

Related to the original post about crime stats.

What world is Bachman living in? How many "bastard" children were fathered by slave owners. Does she ever wonder where all the light-skinned black people came from in this country?

Nice family values that . . .

242 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:22:51pm

re: #233 ProLifeLiberal

Actually, I just had another thought, semi-related.

Why are Serial Killers (in the US) disproportionately White Males?

I think it's a combination of factors having to do with brain function (the male part), and social conditioning.

Also, since apparently serial killers tend to target within their own race (I learn so much shit from watching forensics shows), I have to wonder if non-white killers might be less likely to be identified simply because the victims they choose show up less on the radar.

But this is all idle speculation from a "Criminal Minds" devotee. I'm sure someone actually researches this stuff.

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:23:13pm

re: #240 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think so. If anything, stats would indeed be kept, because it's property/investment loss.

And we know how some of these people get when their property/investment is threatened. /eyeroll

Same for insurance of "the property". AETNA, for one, apologized. That was sweet of them.

One of the reasons the bigots DESPISE the NAACP is because they would do things like keep stats of lynchings and publish the reports, because no one in the liberal socialist progressive media would.

sociopaths would buy slaves just to kill them. Savor the process . . . .find a justifiable reason to do so that wouldn't cause their neighbors to suspect . . .

244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:23:14pm

re: #225 efuseakay

Eugenics... hmmm... I seem to remember someone trying that very same thing more than half a century ago...

So do I. they went by the name of California. lol

245 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:23:28pm

re: #233 ProLifeLiberal

Actually, I just had another thought, semi-related.

Why are Serial Killers (in the US) disproportionately White Males?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

246 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:23:51pm

re: #216 ggt

I have found it interesting that only in the American South were slaves not baptized or allowed to marry in the RC church, despite the Popes insistence on it. In South American and the Islands, they kept two different books in the Church records --one for blacks and one for whites.

How can you consider yourself a Chrisitan (or any religion) and actively keep people away from the religion?

Money and Power --I know. . . .

Sure power/profit played a major part, but I think there's also a psychological factor--to live in proximity with the subjugated yet maintain differance, you had to create and maintenance a mystique...wherever possible culture had to be crafted to reinforce a subjugator/subject distinction along color lines.

Both slavers and colonialists spilled a lot of ink rationalizing and talking around indicators that the people they controlled were intelligent rational actors. Religious, biological, and psychological arguments were cobbled together to distinguish white froms non-whites, and to tier the non-whites into inferior/superior clades. Weasel concepts like "mimicry" and "natural cunning" became ways of deflecting the obvious--that these purportedly-inferior people possessed faculties on par with the subjugators, and given resources could compete with them intellectually.

247 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:24:45pm

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

White, middle-class wimmin need to have more babies.

(I speak Michele.)

It's the only way to hold off the Rising Tide Of The Mud Peoples, dontcha know. Well, that and the hoped-for End Times.

Sheesh. These people are just bizarre.

248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:24:50pm

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

I didn't say he was a good guy as a slaveholder, he wasn't. I was just adding some historical detail. I know a lot about the Civil War and its major personalities. I thought the details worth posting, nothing more than that.

It was just a snark-based response. No need to get defensive.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:26:18pm

re: #244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

So do I. they went by the name of California. lol

Eugenics was highly popular for a long time, in many circles, and practiced in all kinds of ways--and had fallout we're still dealing with, mostly unaware, as a society.

The Bachmanns of the world, however, have simply pinned the whole thing on Planned Parenthood.

250 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:26:20pm

re: #241 ggt

Some of these ideas we are coming up with could entertain Sociologists forever.

I will entertain psychs. Between the Autism and the other issues.

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

Good point on that one. The whole Caylee Anthony issue is an example. Would an African-American or Hispanic Child in the same circumstances have gotten the same attention? Probably Not.

251 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:26:48pm

re: #227 ggt

Try telling your banker why you destroyed the property he had a lien on. Slaves were expensive property and were assets in court and for the purposes of taxation. If you owned the slaves free and clear of debt then you had much more leeway to behave in such a manner.

If you injured or killed a slave you needed to have good reason for such actions if said slave was subject to liens or other legal obligations. More in the line of property and animal cruelty laws than anything else.

And yes, such laws were right nasty in a moral sense.

The laws regarding slaves and slave holding made for a very nasty tangled mess.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:27:11pm

re: #245 Gus 802

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Very interesting.

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:27:30pm

re: #248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It was just a snark-based response. No need to get defensive.

SBR.

254 Gus  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:28:22pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

Very interesting.

Yeah. More here, FBI: Serial Killers Aren't All White Loners.

255 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:28:23pm

re: #245 Gus 802

SFZ hit the nail on the head.

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

Good Job.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:29:46pm

Melba Patillo Beals (of the Little Rock 9) wrote in her book Warriors don't Cry, how white citizens threw acid in the faces of the black kids trying to attend Little Rock High School.

WTF? Adults who called themselves Christians?

I'll never understand people.

257 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:29:53pm

re: #248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It was just a snark-based response. No need to get defensive.

I'm much faster to move against such remarks since WUB's vile insults. I wasn't sure if you were just snarking or were hostile. Your last post convinced me its the former, so I'll won't be as defensive going forward with you.

258 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:30:05pm

re: #234 ggt

I think it's an attempt to promote responsible parenting. You know, like making sure your kid goes to sleep on time, does their homework, goes to church and bible study.

Yeah but considering the source -- the kind of people obsessed with violent rhetoric, the thought of group retribution, who come up with all kind of weird, sadistic fantasies about what will happen if others don't do what they say -- they are the worst people to be telling others about responsible anything, much less dealing with vulnerable children.

259 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:31:04pm

re: #249 SanFranciscoZionist

Eugenics was highly popular for a long time, in many circles, and practiced in all kinds of ways--and had fallout we're still dealing with, mostly unaware, as a society.

The Bachmanns of the world, however, have simply pinned the whole thing on Planned Parenthood.

Emanuel Goldstein for dumb social cons.

Or would that be Barack Obama. :/

260 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:32:30pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

Very interesting.


If took me and my three closest friends, together we'd fit almost every one of those characteristics.

It's a damn good thing there are four of us.

261 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:32:45pm

re: #250 ProLifeLiberal

Some of these ideas we are coming up with could entertain Sociologists forever.

I will entertain psychs. Between the Autism and the other issues.

re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist

Good point on that one. The whole Caylee Anthony issue is an example. Would an African-American or Hispanic Child in the same circumstances have gotten the same attention? Probably Not.

I remember that after Columbine, there was either a rash of smaller-scale school shootings, or a rash of media attention on school shootings. Either way, after several months of "kid brings gun to school, opens fire", I saw a piece in the paper on a black eighth-grade boy who'd been bullied. He came to school with a gun and shot a couple people.

It was being investigated as being 'gang-related'. Same behavior, they just didn't classify it the same because it was an urban black kid instead of a suburban white kid.

262 engineer cat  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:34:14pm

'Robust Reproduction'

she can multiply, as she has amply demonstrated, and divide, as all wingnuts divide americans from one another, and she can subtract, as in information and intelligence from a discussion, but as for adding - i'm sure she gets 5 from 2 + 2

263 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:35:30pm

re: #243 ggt

sociopaths would buy slaves just to kill them. Savor the process . . .find a justifiable reason to do so that wouldn't cause their neighbors to suspect . . .

Well, that's just silly. Slaves were *expensive*. "Slatterns" were basically free. Still are. Just look at the women's bodies they have found recently on Long Island.

Ick. I cannot imagine that mindset. Gives me the oogies.

264 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:37:13pm

It's after 12:30 here and time for me to log off.

Goodnight, all.

265 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:37:44pm

re: #263 austin_blue

I have to limit my watching of Criminal Minds. Too damn much darkness even after some of the places I've been.

266 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:38:12pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

night

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:39:12pm

re: #258 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah but considering the source -- the kind of people obsessed with violent rhetoric, the thought of group retribution, who come up with all kind of weird, sadistic fantasies about what will happen if others don't do what they say -- they are the worst people to be telling others about responsible anything, much less dealing with vulnerable children.

Like the "masculine training therapy" for effeminate boys?

Yeah, that is robust parenting . . . .

gah/

268 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:40:52pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

I'm much faster to move against such remarks since WUB's vile insults. I wasn't sure if you were just snarking or were hostile. Your last post convinced me its the former, so I'll won't be as defensive going forward with you.

TBF, I do have a right to be express actual hostility towards the US legacy of chattel slavery, and not just snark. Everyone with a conscience does.

269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:41:59pm

re: #256 ggt

WTF? Adults who called themselves Christians?

Exactly.

270 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:43:36pm

re: #263 austin_blue

Well, that's just silly. Slaves were *expensive*. "Slatterns" were basically free. Still are. Just look at the women's bodies they have found recently on Long Island.

Ick. I cannot imagine that mindset. Gives me the oogies.


Since slaves were treated as property and not "human," would there have been instances where, say, a fatal illness would have led an owner to "put down" a slave? Say a slave could no longer do the job, or was diagnosed with a fatal illness?

Given what we know about slaveowners, it's tough to imagine the majority of them springing for long-term medical care for a seriously-injured slave.

271 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:44:21pm

re: #263 austin_blue

Well, that's just silly. Slaves were *expensive*. "Slatterns" were basically free. Still are. Just look at the women's bodies they have found recently on Long Island.

Ick. I cannot imagine that mindset. Gives me the oogies.

I think you are trying to apply logic where logic doesn't exist. We are talking about psychopaths, remember?

272 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:44:25pm

re: #265 dell*nix

I have to limit my watching of Criminal Minds. Too damn much darkness even after some of the places I've been.

Well, there are over 300 million people in the US. A certain percentage of freakazoids will always be there. The chances of you or your loved ones encountering them is probably no different than it was in 1800. But as population rises, so too must the National body count.

And, as we saw with the Casey Anthony case, if it bleeds, it leads in the modern media circus.

273 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:45:10pm

re: #234 ggt

I think it's an attempt to promote responsible parenting. You know, like making sure your kid goes to sleep on time, does their homework, goes to church and bible study.

Mostly I agree with the concept...

With a group like the Family Leader defining the terms, I'd want to research and find out in particular what they meant by "robust parenting." A lot of socon groups who are into home-schooling and such always adhere to quack "parenting" programs that incorporate corporal punishment, a lot of unhealthy psychological intimidation, and truly nutty schemas for enforced gendered roles and behavior.

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:46:36pm

re: #272 austin_blue

Well, there are over 300 million people in the US. A certain percentage of freakazoids will always be there. The chances of you or your loved ones encountering them is probably no different than it was in 1800. But as population rises, so too must the National body count.

And, as we saw with the Casey Anthony case, if it bleeds, it leads in the modern media circus.

There is the concept of the three "d's" that people apply to Afrika, death, despair and destruction. I think (some) people apply that to Afrika-American's as well.

Kinda, "ho hum" it isn't news, it's the status quo.

Fucked-up thinking.

275 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:47:33pm

re: #273 The Ghost of a Flea

With a group like the Family Leader defining the terms, I'd want to research and find out in particular what they meant by "robust parenting." A lot of socon groups who are into home-schooling and such always adhere to quack "parenting" programs that incorporate corporal punishment, a lot of unhealthy psychological intimidation, and truly nutty schemas for enforced gendered roles and behavior.

definitely a lot of room for interpretation . . .like I said, I don't think I'd like the government defining it more than they already have.

Social Services has enough on their plate. . .

276 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:48:03pm

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

I'd actually call it a 'missionary outlook'. Both Christianity and Islam have, in almost all their forms, an intense desire to share their worldview and faith and thus gain converts. For the most part, this is a good thing, but when it turns violent it is very dangerous.

I term that the evangelical outlook, the requirement to "witness" lest some be damned by never hearing the "word". That works best by example and with a gentle informative attitude. How bad that gets is directly proportionate to how strongly applied. Blowing off friends and family that fail to convert for example. Ugly and unnecessary. By the time you get to violence, well that's just a killer in religious costume as far as I am concerned.

277 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:48:40pm

re: #272 austin_blue

In 1800 I think that such activity would have been less noticed than today considering the lack of communication methods. Also, as people were a lot closer to the survival line than we are today, attitudes were less sensitive as it were regarding violence and death.

278 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:49:58pm

re: #270 BongCrodny

Since slaves were treated as property and not "human," would there have been instances where, say, a fatal illness would have led an owner to "put down" a slave? Say a slave could no longer do the job, or was diagnosed with a fatal illness?

Given what we know about slaveowners, it's tough to imagine the majority of them springing for long-term medical care for a seriously-injured slave.

Based on what I've read, which isn't extensive, I assume that such a person either worked until they dropped, or were left 'home', for family and friends to tend as best they could when they could. I assume that sickness would have taken you fairly quickly. Owners might have called in doctors for personal servants, I'm betting not for field workers on a big plantation operation.

Slaves were expensive to buy, as people have pointed out, and quite cheap to maintain, so there was little incentive to get rid of them, even if productivity dropped.

279 Fozzie Bear  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:51:42pm

re: #224 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

against the Voting Rights Act

Holy crap.... WTF?

I think from now on he shall be called uncle Thomas.

280 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:54:18pm

re: #278 SanFranciscoZionist

If you look at the history of medicine, sickness did not take long to take hold and kill. Reading the 1900 and 1910 census records show how many children were born live to a woman and how many were still alive. Also the death schedules showed how many died of what we consider extinct or treatable diseases today.

281 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:54:23pm

re: #270 BongCrodny

Since slaves were treated as property and not "human," would there have been instances where, say, a fatal illness would have led an owner to "put down" a slave? Say a slave could no longer do the job, or was diagnosed with a fatal illness?

Given what we know about slaveowners, it's tough to imagine the majority of them springing for long-term medical care for a seriously-injured slave.

What are we talking- 1865? The slaves had as effective medical care as most owners. No antibiotics, no surgery, yellow fever, blood poisoning from razor cuts, gangrene, lethal strep throat. *Nobody* had long-term medical care. It hadn't been invented yet.

Do you throw your car in a dumpster if it has a flat tire? Of course not. You *need* that car. You do your best to fix it. Same with chattel slavery (and, by the way, indentured servitude, the "white" equivalant).

This is not in any way, shape, or form a defense of chattel slavery. It's an evil concept. But with a sale price of up to $2,000 dollars for a human- in 1859 dollars -in New Orleans, that is one hell of an investment.

282 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:55:36pm

re: #243 ggt

sociopaths would buy slaves just to kill them. Savor the process . . .find a justifiable reason to do so that wouldn't cause their neighbors to suspect . . .

The mentality did not end with slavery. It's the main reason why in so many states, such as California, had laws that made it illegal to defend oneself against anything any dumb ol white bigot wanted to do.

Shyt wasn't overturned until the 1940s.

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:56:01pm

re: #281 austin_blue

What are we talking- 1865? The slaves had as effective medical care as most owners. No antibiotics, no surgery, yellow fever, blood poisoning from razor cuts, gangrene, lethal strep throat. *Nobody* had long-term medical care. It hadn't been invented yet.

Do you throw your car in a dumpster if it has a flat tire? Of course not. You *need* that car. You do your best to fix it. Same with chattel slavery (and, by the way, indentured servitude, the "white" equivalant).

This is not in any way, shape, or form a defense of chattel slavery. It's an evil concept. But with a sale price of up to $2,000 dollars for a human- in 1859 dollars -in New Orleans, that is one hell of an investment.

What about slaves born to your slaves. Not all slaves were purchased. On large plantations, there was little need to always buy a new slave. "They bred on their own", with with the slaveowner's help.

284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:57:30pm

re: #270 BongCrodny

Since slaves were treated as property and not "human," would there have been instances where, say, a fatal illness would have led an owner to "put down" a slave? Say a slave could no longer do the job, or was diagnosed with a fatal illness?

Given what we know about slaveowners, it's tough to imagine the majority of them springing for long-term medical care for a seriously-injured slave.

Well, they might. Otherwise, they would have to do the work, themselves.

It always cracks me up to read about southern "planters", and California agriculture "growers".

They don't plant or grow jack sprat. lol

285 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:58:26pm

re: #283 ggt

Still valuable for purposes of sale, taxation and inheritance. Planters may have had a high valuation for purposes of taxation, but little actual cash for purchasing equipment or supplies.

286 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:59:19pm

re: #285 dell*nix

Still valuable for purposes of sale, taxation and inheritance. Planters may have had a high valuation for purposes of taxation, but little actual cash for purchasing equipment or supplies.

A high value in representation as well --3/5ths.

287 jvic  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:02:08pm

re: #184 ProLifeLiberal

Politics became personal or me years ago. Years of being called Un-American, a traitor, and being told to leave this country by Republicans in both Colorado Springs and Oklahoma made be viciously bitter against the other side.

I want to dish out what I went through, and see how they like it. This is want for vengeance. The only way I differ from many Democrats I managed to know at OU is that I tend to be far more aggressive.

From a friend who did contract work in Oklahoma: "Look, I know you're conservative and that's fine, but you don't understand how nasty and crazy those people are."

Hopefully you will purge your poison. Meanwhile I will oppose you every step of the way.

However, I respect your honesty--and I do not respect those on either side who, with venom oozing out of every pore, claim to be working selflessly for the common good.

288 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:02:53pm

re: #274 ggt

I think (some) people apply that to Afrika-American's as well.

Well, they try.

Generally, nobody buys into it but them and a few self-loathing opportunists, though.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:03:20pm

re: #286 ggt

A high value in representation as well --3/5ths.

Buck was trying to explain, some days ago, about how that was, for the times, a step toward recognizing the humanity of black Americans.

I don't think he understood what either the debate or the compromise was about. Or who was on what side.

Rutledge: Oh, really! Mr. Adams in now callin’ our black slaves Americans. Are-they-now?

John: They are! They’re people and they’re here—if there is any other requirement, I’ve never heard of it.

--1776

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:03:40pm

re: #288 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, they try.

Generally, nobody buys into it but them and a few self-loathing opportunists, though.

Don't you think that meme leads the news-cycle tho?

291 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:07:39pm

re: #281 austin_blue

What are we talking- 1865? The slaves had as effective medical care as most owners. No antibiotics, no surgery, yellow fever, blood poisoning from razor cuts, gangrene, lethal strep throat. *Nobody* had long-term medical care. It hadn't been invented yet.

Do you throw your car in a dumpster if it has a flat tire? Of course not. You *need* that car. You do your best to fix it. Same with chattel slavery (and, by the way, indentured servitude, the "white" equivalant).

This is not in any way, shape, or form a defense of chattel slavery. It's an evil concept. But with a sale price of up to $2,000 dollars for a human- in 1859 dollars -in New Orleans, that is one hell of an investment.

I can tell you that there was a big distinction between the US and the Caribbean regarding health of slaves.

I don't remember exactly why it was different, but in the Caribbean the life expectancy of slaves was perilously short--you were brought across the Middle Passage and then there was a five-to-ten year window of productivity before you dropped dead. IIRC it had to do with a combination of the kind of labor conditions and the environment's hazards, but also the cold calculation by slave owners that it was cheaper to buy new slaves. If I can find the book (from a college course) that I'm remembering, I'll cite properly.

292 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:10:40pm

re: #283 ggt

What about slaves born to your slaves. Not all slaves were purchased. On large plantations, there was little need to always buy a new slave. "They bred on their own", with with the slaveowner's help.

You've got to think this through. It was a slave *trade*. A commodity market. A market of human labor. Of human capital. If you had more slaves than you needed, you sold them and made real money. After Texas was absorbed into the US, it opened up a huge amount of new land in north central Texas to cotton farming. Large numbers of Louisiana slaves were sold to the entrepreneur who wanted to move west and grow cotton. Slavery was a market driven resource.

293 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:11:57pm

re: #273 The Ghost of a Flea

With a group like the Family Leader defining the terms, I'd want to research and find out in particular what they meant by "robust parenting." A lot of socon groups who are into home-schooling and such always adhere to quack "parenting" programs that incorporate corporal punishment, a lot of unhealthy psychological intimidation, and truly nutty schemas for enforced gendered roles and behavior.

Then we hear no end of their loud squawking about the "destructive lifestyle choices" of others. /ohbrother

Conservative-crankodoodle Christianity is one of the most violent, destructive lifestyle choices on the planet, and one that's often forced by authoritarian parents, not chosen.

(The same way they intend to force every queer to choose to live like them.)

The idea of anyone's rights but their own angers them, especially those they feel should be perpetually-vulnerable to their conservative authority. Thomas, again: [Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

294 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:13:19pm

Atlantic triangular slave trade

The best-known triangular trading system is the transatlantic slave trade, that operated from the late 16th to early 19th centuries, carrying slaves, cash crops, and manufactured goods between West Africa, Caribbean or American colonies and the European colonial powers, with the northern colonies of British North America, especially New England, sometimes taking over the role of Europe.[1]

The use of African slaves was fundamental to growing colonial cash crops, which were exported to Europe. European goods, in turn, were used to purchase African slaves, which were then brought on the sea lane west from Africa to the Americas, the so called middle passage.[2]

A classic example would be the trade of sugar (often in its liquid form, molasses) from the Caribbean to Europe or New England, where it was distilled into rum. The profits from the sale of sugar were used to purchase manufactured goods, which were then shipped to West Africa, where they were bartered for slaves. The slaves were then brought back to the Caribbean to be sold to sugar planters. The profits from the sale of the slaves were then used to buy more sugar, which was shipped to Europe, etc.

295 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:15:44pm

re: #290 ggt

Don't you think that meme leads the news-cycle tho?

Many days, it does, probably because "them" = a lot of people. Like that link to People vs Hall, the sociopathy is a part of our legal history.

Sux to be "them" lol

296 jvic  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:16:12pm

1. re: #121 KingKenrod

I found the actual pledge here. It starts off with this gem:

I've seen it claimed that the pledge doesn't really intend to ban pornography, but I can't agree. Here is the pornography section:

Humane protection of women and the innocent fruit of conjugal intimacy – our next generation of American children – from human trafficking, sexual slavery, seduction into promiscuity, and all forms of pornography and prostitution, infanticide, abortion and other types of coercion or stolen innocence.

2. Q. What about banning contraception and masturbation?
A. Shhh! That's for the second term!

297 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:18:53pm

re: #296 jvic

1.

I've seen it claimed that the pledge doesn't really intend to ban pornography, but I can't agree. Here is the pornography section:

Humane protection of women and the innocent fruit of conjugal intimacy – our next generation of American children – from human trafficking, sexual slavery, seduction into promiscuity, and all forms of pornography and prostitution, infanticide, abortion and other types of coercion or stolen innocence.

2. Q. What about banning contraception and masturbation?
A. Shhh! That's for the second term!

Well, yeah, of course:

Youtube Video
298 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:19:19pm

Greetings from Ventura county. I gotta say I feel pretty sad about this ridiculous pledge. I'm no GOP fan. Not a Republican anymore. But I am a right leaner and in fiscal and defense issues conservative. I liked the old "Contract With America" for the most part back when. Today we have this crap instead?

These people are ruining "my" brand. It's harder now not easier to espouse my values here because of these Tea Party people. Anyone logged in that remembers my photo essay here on one of the very first TP rallies?

The Tea Party Express was really a GOP PAC. And far more sensible as compared to this pledge. How far the Republicans have gone. They need to be gone. Gone from the right. Gone from the elections.

A replacement is needed and unavailable. The sensible kind of conservatism deserves a national voice.

299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:21:25pm

re: #292 austin_blue

You've got to think this through. It was a slave *trade*. A commodity market. A market of human labor. Of human capital. If you had more slaves than you needed, you sold them and made real money. After Texas was absorbed into the US, it opened up a huge amount of new land in north central Texas to cotton farming. Large numbers of Louisiana slaves were sold to the entrepreneur who wanted to move west and grow cotton. Slavery was a market driven resource.

Especially after the Atlantic Slave Trade was shut down. Here, that happened in 1808. [Link: www.infoplease.com...]

The supply chain had to correct, so it became internalized within the US.

300 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:22:08pm

re: #294 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Of all the slaves taken and sold, how many were shipped to the New World and how many to the Middle East, the Ottoman Empire and Arabia? It was more than just a New World market, plus those that remained in Africa as property of the slave takers.

301 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:24:06pm

re: #292 austin_blue

You've got to think this through. It was a slave *trade*. A commodity market. A market of human labor. Of human capital. If you had more slaves than you needed, you sold them and made real money. After Texas was absorbed into the US, it opened up a huge amount of new land in north central Texas to cotton farming. Large numbers of Louisiana slaves were sold to the entrepreneur who wanted to move west and grow cotton. Slavery was a market driven resource.

IIRC, this topic originally began in regards to crime and psychopaths.

Again, I say you are applying logic where logic doesn't exist. A psychopath or rapist doesn't have the same value system.

302 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:24:40pm

re: #299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Smuggling was a profitable business for a few until at least the 1860's. Risky, but profitable.

303 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:25:07pm

re: #296 jvic

1.

I've seen it claimed that the pledge doesn't really intend to ban pornography, but I can't agree. Here is the pornography section:

Humane protection of women and the innocent fruit of conjugal intimacy – our next generation of American children – from human trafficking, sexual slavery, seduction into promiscuity, and all forms of pornography and prostitution, infanticide, abortion and other types of coercion or stolen innocence.

2. Q. What about banning contraception and masturbation?
A. Shhh! That's for the second term!

Stolen Innocence? Man that could lead to banning of Rock Music . . .

304 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:25:39pm

re: #303 ggt

Not to mention Rap.

305 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:26:19pm

re: #294 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Atlantic triangular slave trade

The best-known triangular trading system is the transatlantic slave trade, that operated from the late 16th to early 19th centuries, carrying slaves, cash crops, and manufactured goods between West Africa, Caribbean or American colonies and the European colonial powers, with the northern colonies of British North America, especially New England, sometimes taking over the role of Europe.[1]

TONS AND TONS of profit . . .

306 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:26:32pm

re: #304 dell*nix

Or Ma Rainey.

307 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:26:44pm

re: #304 dell*nix

Not to mention Rap.

Hip Hop, the work of the devil . . .

/

308 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:27:34pm

re: #300 dell*nix

Of all the slaves taken and sold, how many were shipped to the New World and how many to the Middle East, the Ottoman Empire and Arabia? It was more than just a New World market, plus those that remained in Africa as property of the slave takers.

Slavery was a world-wide commodity until very recently in human history.

Still children are being sold out of Afrika to the ME.

309 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:28:35pm

re: #298 Rightwingconspirator

Greetings from Ventura county. I gotta say I feel pretty sad about this ridiculous pledge. I'm no GOP fan. Not a Republican anymore. But I am a right leaner and in fiscal and defense issues conservative. I liked the old "Contract With America" for the most part back when. Today we have this crap instead?

These people are ruining "my" brand. It's harder now not easier to espouse my values here because of these Tea Party people. Anyone logged in that remembers my photo essay here on one of the very first TP rallies?

The Tea Party Express was really a GOP PAC. And far more sensible as compared to this pledge. How far the Republicans have gone. They need to be gone. Gone from the right. Gone from the elections.

A replacement is needed and unavailable. The sensible kind of conservatism deserves a national voice.

We need Bill Buckley to rise from the grave . . .

310 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:29:13pm

re: #299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Especially after the Atlantic Slave Trade was shut down. Here, that happened in 1808. [Link: www.infoplease.com...]

The supply chain had to correct, so it became internalized within the US.

Exactly.

Capitalism!

311 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:29:50pm

re: #310 austin_blue

Exactly.

Capitalism!

Greed exists in all economic systems.

312 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:35:11pm

re: #298 Rightwingconspirator

The Tea Party Express was really a GOP PAC. And far more sensible as compared to this pledge.

That really is saying a lot, because they haven't even a lick of sense. Bachmann was one of their endorsees.

TPX backed the miderm's most unhinged, paranoid, supremacist, no-talent, whackjob cons they could scrape from the bottom of the barrel. [Link: www.teapartyexpress.org...]

I mean, really. Sharron Angle, Christine O'Donnell, Star Parker, Joe Miller, Raese, Thune...gangs all here.

A replacement is needed and unavailable. The sensible kind of conservatism deserves a national voice.

Then normal conservatives just need to speak up. I don't think it's unavailable at all.

313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:35:30pm

re: #302 dell*nix

Smuggling was a profitable business for a few until at least the 1860's. Risky, but profitable.

Bootlegging people.

314 Kragar  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:36:18pm

re: #307 ggt

Hip Hop, the work of the devil . . .

/

True. I have proof.

Youtube Video
315 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:37:27pm

re: #301 ggt

IIRC, this topic originally began in regards to crime and psychopaths.

Again, I say you are applying logic where logic doesn't exist. A psychopath or rapist doesn't have the same value system.

If you are saying that anyone who would pay over $150,000 in today's money for a human being so that they can rape, torture, and eventually slaughter them rather than doing the same thing with the 1855 equivalent of a crack whore is a nutbag, we are in complete agreement.

316 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:42:51pm

re: #313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Bootlegging people.

Substitute shipping containers for trucks and...yes, exactly.

317 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:43:19pm

re: #301 ggt

IIRC, this topic originally began in regards to crime and psychopaths.

Again, I say you are applying logic where logic doesn't exist. A psychopath or rapist doesn't have the same value system.

I would say the problem was structural rather than individual -- and was quite rational (which is not the same as saying it was moral. Obviously, that's not my argument.)

The kind people you're talking about could only thrive in a legal system/social millieu that made it illegal or otherwise impossible for entire swaths of people testify against their deeds.

318 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:44:51pm

re: #317 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would say the problem was structural rather than individual -- and was quite rational (which is not the same as saying it was moral. Obviously, that's not my argument.)

The kind people you're talking about could only thrive in a legal system/social millieu that made it illegal or otherwise impossible for entire swaths of people testify against their deeds.

But killing your own slave was not illegal . . . .

319 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:45:06pm

And goodnight all!

Sweet scaly dreams.

I'm dreaming of rain:

[Link: www.drought.unl.edu...]

That's as badass as a honey badger.

320 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:47:00pm

re: #315 austin_blue

If you are saying that anyone who would pay over $150,000 in today's money for a human being so that they can rape, torture, and eventually slaughter them rather than doing the same thing with the 1855 equivalent of a crack whore is a nutbag, we are in complete agreement.

Do you really think it is so far fetched that a 19th century Jeffrey Dahmer would take one of his slaves (purchased, already owned, inherited, whatever) and put him in a cage in his basement or root cellar of some outbuilding, torture and rape him/her for years, until that slave died? Then start all over again when the "urge" overcame him?

If only the other slaves knew, he would be able to get his jollies scott free.

321 dell*nix  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:50:44pm

re: #320 ggt

Slave owners were scared of slave revolts for good reason. And on a plantation, slaves did all the labor including cooking. A bit of this or that in the food, wine, beer or liquor and it gets written off as natural. Even if a slave cut your throat shaving you, he might just consider it worth it regardless if he got away with it or not.

322 freetoken  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:53:15pm

Peppi Kamadhatu:

MP3 Audio
323 austin_blue  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:54:45pm

re: #320 ggt

Do you really think it is so far fetched that a 19th century Jeffrey Dahmer would take one of his slaves (purchased, already owned, inherited, whatever) and put him in a cage in his basement or root cellar of some outbuilding, torture and rape him/her for years, until that slave died? Then start all over again when the "urge" overcame him?

If only the other slaves knew, he would be able to get his jollies scott free.

Yes. Yes I do. Arsonists don't burn down their own houses. Sociopaths aren't stupid. It's why so many serial killers live so long amongst us for so long.

Same as it ever was...

An really, I'm outta here. Night all.

324 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Jul 7, 2011 11:55:59pm

re: #318 ggt

But killing your own slave was not illegal . . .

I don't think that was ever settled.

If you mean it 1- wasn't considered "murder" or 2- wasn't punishable by the death penalty, I'd say that is very likely true, but would also have to ask where and when you were talking about.

Soon Ja Du got 5 years probation for shooting a young girl point blank, barely 20 years ago. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] So legally, this mentality is still with us.

The various Black Codes I mentioned above laid out treatment of slaves, some of which was punishable. Look up State vs Hoover (1839, North Carolina) and State vs Jones (1843) for court rulings on it.

325 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:04:38am

re: #320 ggt

Do you really think it is so far fetched that a 19th century Jeffrey Dahmer would take one of his slaves (purchased, already owned, inherited, whatever) and put him in a cage in his basement or root cellar of some outbuilding, torture and rape him/her for years, until that slave died? Then start all over again when the "urge" overcame him?

If only the other slaves knew, he would be able to get his jollies scott free.

Honestly, it's perfectly feasible. The chattel system would provide a near-perfect cover, but really slavery wouldn't open the opportunity moreso than other power dynamics where wealth and station created a two-or-more-tiered justice system. I mean, look at Gilles de Rais, Erisbet Bathory, Tokugawa Tadanaga--where there's power plus a class of people without little voice, there's an immense opening to indulge whatever sadist urge one has.

Consider--modern serial killers often evade notice (and capture) when they prey on the liminal and outcast of societies...prostitutes, runaways, the homeless, the poor. The farther back you go in history, the broader the base of "people who don't really matter and no-one would notice their absence" gets, and the narrower and less efficacious the law enforcement is. Barring a specific individual getting caught--like the three historical cases in mentioned above--it's very hard to index something like serial murder across time.

326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:04:47am

re: #320 ggt

If only the other slaves knew, he would be able to get his jollies scott free.

That would have been the case for whites of any stripe who wished to abuse nonwhites, whether or not they were serial killers. In many states, testimony against them by those seeking redress was illegal.

Look, only the neo-confederates and their sympathizers buy that old Song of the South hokum about the happy singing, tapdancing slave on the plantation, with the benevolent loving master. Normal people understand that's a total myth. But I would say, the reality was even more harsh than the potential for psychopaths getting off on abusing vulnerable populations. The whole social system of whites-first/whites-rule was predicated on it, and many locales codified it into law.

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:09:20am

re: #324 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think that was ever settled.

If you mean it 1- wasn't considered "murder" or 2- wasn't punishable by the death penalty, I'd say that is very likely true, but would also have to ask where and when you were talking about.

Soon Ja Du got 5 years probation for shooting a young girl point blank, barely 20 years ago. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] So legally, this mentality is still with us.

The various Black Codes I mentioned above laid out treatment of slaves, some of which was punishable. Look up State vs Hoover (1839, North Carolina) and State vs Jones (1843) for court rulings on it.

shot her in the "back of the head" --usually doesn't get a light sentence, it's hard to claim self -defence when someone isn't facing you. That's a shitting sentencing!!!

Interesting:

Tho, I have to wonder what the difference was in the law and practice?

328 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:10:07am

re: #325 The Ghost of a Flea

Honestly, it's perfectly feasible. The chattel system would provide a near-perfect cover, but really slavery wouldn't open the opportunity moreso than other power dynamics where wealth and station created a two-or-more-tiered justice system. I mean, look at Gilles de Rais, Erisbet Bathory, Tokugawa Tadanaga--where there's power plus a class of people without little voice, there's an immense opening to indulge whatever sadist urge one has.

Consider--modern serial killers often evade notice (and capture) when they prey on the liminal and outcast of societies...prostitutes, runaways, the homeless, the poor. The farther back you go in history, the broader the base of "people who don't really matter and no-one would notice their absence" gets, and the narrower and less efficacious the law enforcement is. Barring a specific individual getting caught--like the three historical cases in mentioned above--it's very hard to index something like serial murder across time.

Thank you.

329 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:11:31am

re: #326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That would have been the case for whites of any stripe who wished to abuse nonwhites, whether or not they were serial killers. In many states, testimony against them by those seeking redress was illegal.

Look, only the neo-confederates and their sympathizers buy that old Song of the South hokum about the happy singing, tapdancing slave on the plantation, with the benevolent loving master. Normal people understand that's a total myth. But I would say, the reality was even more harsh than the potential for psychopaths getting off on abusing vulnerable populations. The whole social system of whites-first/whites-rule was predicated on it, and many locales codified it into law.

I think I meant by "only the other slaves knowing" that his wife, children and neighbors wouldn't find out. He'd get to go about his business in society with his little secret intact.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:19:34am

From the link above:

"Further, a 1662 act declared that “all children born in this country shall be held bond or free only according to the condition of the mother.” This legal rule, known as partus sequitur ventrem (the offspring follows the mother)

Read more: Slavery, Law Of - Southern Slave Law in the Nineteenth Century., Northern Law., Slavery and National Law., partus sequitur ventrem [Link: law.jrank.org...]
"

I have to wonder how this could be used to day in regards to immigrants . . .. It's probably already been put forth, I just missed it.

331 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:20:38am

re: #329 ggt

I think I meant by "only the other slaves knowing" that his wife, children and neighbors wouldn't find out. He'd get to go about his business in society with his little secret intact.

Or her.

I wouldn't put it past confed women to act out, especially the types who knew all they have to do is say a Black man looked at them crosseyed and start an ethnic cleansing.

These hypotheticals aside, yeah, the US really waxed itself into a corner, trying to claim people are not actually people, thus whites could do anything they wanted to them. Even state courts and designers of Black Codes knew better.

332 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:22:51am

re: #331 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or her.

I wouldn't put it past confed women to act out, especially the types who knew all they have to do is say a Black man looked at them crosseyed and start an ethnic cleansing.

These hypotheticals aside, yeah, the US really waxed itself into a corner, trying to claim people are not actually people, thus whites could do anything they wanted to them. Even state courts and designers of Black Codes knew better.

Insidious!

333 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:24:00am

re: #330 ggt

From the link above:

"Further, a 1662 act declared that “all children born in this country shall be held bond or free only according to the condition of the mother.” This legal rule, known as partus sequitur ventrem (the offspring follows the mother)

Read more: Slavery, Law Of - Southern Slave Law in the Nineteenth Century., Northern Law., Slavery and National Law., partus sequitur ventrem [Link: law.jrank.org...]
"

I have to wonder how this could be used to day in regards to immigrants . . .. It's probably already been put forth, I just missed it.

In general, overturned with the 14th Amendment.

Which is, of course, why a bunch of these shrieking cons want to gut clarify it. lol

334 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:25:03am

re: #333 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

In general, overturned with the 14th Amendment.

Which is, of course, why a bunch of these shrieking cons want to gut clarify it. lol

it would be a way to get "rid of" anchor babies . . .

335 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:26:14am

re: #331 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Or her.

I wouldn't put it past confed women to act out, especially the types who knew all they have to do is say a Black man looked at them crosseyed and start an ethnic cleansing.

These hypotheticals aside, yeah, the US really waxed itself into a corner, trying to claim people are not actually people, thus whites could do anything they wanted to them. Even state courts and designers of Black Codes knew better.

I think there were a lot of middle-aged white women who kept "studs". If they got caught they just screamed rape. Harder for those in their child-bearing years tho . . .

336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:27:29am

re: #327 ggt

Tho, I have to wonder what the difference was in the law and practice?

I guess one could say the SCOTUS tried to answer once and for all with the Dred Scott Decision.

They really stepped in it with that one.

337 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:43:10am

re: #336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I guess one could say the SCOTUS tried to answer once and for all with the Dred Scott Decision.

They really stepped in it with that one.

But, they were 3/5 human for representation purposes?

338 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:45:01am

Night all!

Have a great morning!

339 dell*nix  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 12:48:11am

Good night. Off to the 1930's and reading.

340 freetoken  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 1:51:42am

Goodman trio:

MP3 Audio
341 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:15:17am

Morning Honco(s).

342 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:23:43am

Man dies going after foul ball.

343 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:30:26am

Morning, all. I really regret bailing yesterday, before this thread came up. Such opportunities...

344 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:35:08am

re: #330 ggt

From the link above:

"Further, a 1662 act declared that “all children born in this country shall be held bond or free only according to the condition of the mother.” This legal rule, known as partus sequitur ventrem (the offspring follows the mother)

Read more: Slavery, Law Of - Southern Slave Law in the Nineteenth Century., Northern Law., Slavery and National Law., partus sequitur ventrem [Link: law.jrank.org...]
"

I have to wonder how this could be used to day in regards to immigrants . . .. It's probably already been put forth, I just missed it.

Even the translation is euphemistic. Literally it means "follows the womb or belly", not the whole mother. Another subtlety...

345 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:46:17am

I've gotten cats stoned in my day, but never did this.
[Link: www.kdvr.com...]

346 boxhead  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:53:14am

I'd like to see a pledge to govern with integrity and honesty working for the Citizens of USA. Long term planning is a must. Science and engineering is a must.

347 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:53:45am

re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've gotten cats stoned in my day, but never did this.
[Link: www.kdvr.com...]

If your breath is killing domestic animals, you're doing it wrong.

348 boxhead  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:54:35am

re: #347 Decatur Deb

If your breath is killing domestic animals, you're doing it wrong.

I think there is gum for that.. :)

349 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:55:15am

“When she untucked her shirt she stated her nipple fell on the floor. She stated she picked it up, put into a bag securing it.”
[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

Try to enjoy breakfast with that vision in your head.:)

350 boxhead  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 2:56:31am

re: #349 Cannadian Club Akbar

ouch!

351 Steve  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:00:36am

re: #345 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've gotten cats stoned in my day, but never did this.
[Link: www.kdvr.com...]

It must be late/early but all I can see is a station with the call letters of 'cadaver.' Sorry!

352 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:04:47am

re: #351 Steve

It must be late/early but all I can see is a station with the call letters of 'cadaver.' Sorry!

We now get a live update from cadaver reporter....

353 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:09:35am

re: #349 Cannadian Club Akbar

“When she untucked her shirt she stated her nipple fell on the floor. She stated she picked it up, put into a bag securing it.”
[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

Try to enjoy breakfast with that vision in your head.:)

Thought it was another leprosy story.

354 Steve  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:10:17am

re: #352 Cannadian Club Akbar

We now get a live update from cadaver reporter...

Zombie Sportscaster....

355 alexknyc  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:21:39am

re: #191 ggt

These WHACKOS don't need to be given an inch. They'll start with big tent then slowly whittle it down to some insane system of labeling and purging. In the end it will be white men, 6ft +, with size 13 shoes only, who never lived in NYC and whose entire family and list of friend has been HIV free for two generations .and have never been accused of having a parking ticket . . .

Feel free to add your own stipulations.

Except for the NYC part, that's pretty much me.

Also, wasn't Mitt Romney governor of Massachusetts? His father George was governor of Michigan. Maybe the Des Moines Register should get that right.

George, by the way, was born in a Mormon mission in Mexico. Somehow, his status as a "natural-born citizen" was never an issue in his presidential campaign.

356 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:25:02am

This story is a couple days old but I haven't seen it posted.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

357 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:30:55am

Morning, all

358 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:36:20am

Morning folks.

359 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:36:58am

re: #353 Decatur Deb

Thought it was another leprosy story.

Nipple soup is good eatin'

360 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:38:02am

Work in an apple and a couple sit ups, fatty.

361 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:39:19am

re: #360 Cannadian Club Akbar

Work in an apple and a couple sit ups, fatty.

The word 'Hefty' comes to mind.

Among others.

362 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:40:29am

re: #361 researchok

The word 'Hefty' comes to mind.

Among others.

I was thinking biscuit, but that made me want one.:)

364 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:47:24am

re: #161 Dark_Falcon

I'd actually call it a 'missionary outlook'. Both Christianity and Islam have, in almost all their forms, an intense desire to share their worldview and faith and thus gain converts. For the most part, this is a good thing, but when it turns violent it is very dangerous.

The missionary worldview is dogshit.

365 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:54:46am

Everyone seen this?

Why Jamie Leigh Jones Could Lose Her KBR Rape Case
[Link: motherjones.com...]
Her story of a brutal attack in Iraq sparked a national outcry—but how much of it is true?


Jones' trial, which started on June 13, is highlighting significant holes and discrepancies in her story. Not only has the federal trial judge already thrown out large portions of her case, evidence introduced in the trial raises the question of whether Jones has exaggerated and embellished key aspects of her story.

None of this means that Jones was not raped in Iraq. But the evidence does undermine her credibility and could create serious doubts in jurors' minds.

"Oftentimes the truth is in between," says Laurie Levenson, a former federal prosecutor in Los Angeles. "The truth may be that this wasn't rape as we come to understand it in the law, but it wasn't something that was appropriate. It doesn't mean that something didn't happen." However, if Jones hasn't been entirely truthful and the jury rules against her, it could be a major setback for sexual assault victims, particularly women serving in war zones. "The problem with cases like this is, if it turns out that she's making it up, it really does a disservice to the many women who really are raped who have trouble coming forward," Levenson says.

366 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:55:06am

Driving a 10-ton for Habitat's thrift store today--we're too broke to start another house. BBL

367 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:56:50am

re: #366 Decatur Deb

Driving a 10-ton for Habitat's thrift store today--we're too broke to start another house. BBL

They're still putting them up around here. I've seen at least 2 between my house and the shop.

368 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:00:06am

re: #366 Decatur Deb

Driving a 10-ton for Habitat's thrift store today--we're too broke to start another house. BBL

We've only done 2 this year--our best was 13. The costs of recession, the wars, and materials prices (all somewhat related) has whammied us.

369 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:00:33am

re: #365 RogueOne

Everyone seen this?

Why Jamie Leigh Jones Could Lose Her KBR Rape Case
[Link: motherjones.com...]
Her story of a brutal attack in Iraq sparked a national outcry—but how much of it is true?

You need to make this a Page

370 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:03:18am

re: #369 researchok

You need to make this a Page

I hate to sound like I'm hoping that someone was actually raped but this would be the 2nd big case like this to fall apart because the "victim" lied. That's bad.

371 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:04:33am

re: #368 Decatur Deb

We've only done 2 this year--our best was 13. The costs of recession, the wars, and materials prices (all somewhat related) has whammied us.

I don't care if you are a commie-wanna-be(////), You're a good man.

372 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:17:08am

Good Morning Honcos!

373 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:18:09am

re: #368 Decatur Deb

We've only done 2 this year--our best was 13. The costs of recession, the wars, and materials prices (all somewhat related) has whammied us.

DD,

Thanks for your service to HFH. My FIL worked with them for many years before he passed away. They make a huge impact on the community.

374 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:22:51am
We’re all adults here - we can talk about this openly… [writing on chalkboard] PROSTITUTION! But what does that mean really? Sometimes it helps to understand a word if you break it down, so let’s do that now shall we? Pros… it doesn’t mean anything, you can forget about that… Tit, I think we all know what that means, Tu, two tit and TION of course, from the Latin to shun… to say uh-uh no thank you anyway I don’t want it, to push away… it doesn’t even belong in this word really.
-Night Shift
375 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:23:51am

re: #374 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When I was a kid I wanted Bull to be my friend.

376 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:24:58am

re: #374 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hold the phone Chuck! Take live tunafish and feed them mayonnaise!!! Call Starkist!

377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:26:14am

re: #375 Obdicut

When I was a kid I wanted Bull to be my friend.

Wrong "Night Shift", silly. Michael Keaton/Henry Winkler/Shelly Long movie.

I like Harry Anderson, though.

378 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:26:52am

re: #377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wrong "Night Shift", silly. Michael Keaton/Henry Winkler/Shelly Long movie.

I like Harry Anderson, though.

That's Night Court.

379 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:27:41am

re: #378 Cannadian Club Akbar

So, we're both dumb-asses!

380 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:29:32am

re: #377 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wrong "Night Shift", silly. Michael Keaton/Henry Winkler/Shelly Long movie.

I like Harry Anderson, though.

I thought he meant the scene where Franklin's business associates were going to kill Winkler. "Wouldn't be right to let you live after we killed Franklin, he was our friend." "Oh, Please God, let me be your friend!!"

381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:31:31am

re: #380 rwdflynavy

I got on the "Night Shift" kick this morning, because it has one of the greatest throw away movie lines (IMO) in history.

"Oh, that Barney Rubble. What an actor!"

382 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:33:50am

re: #381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I got on the "Night Shift" kick this morning, because it has one of the greatest throw away movie lines (IMO) in history.

"Oh, that Barney Rubble. What an actor!"

Name of the deceased: Something Polish?!?!

383 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:34:27am

Hey, FBV, send me an email Nic at yahoo.com. I lost your info.

384 RogueOne  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:35:27am

Gotta run. Last month I bid a job I didn't want, because I knew the owner would be ultra-picky, so I doubled my quote to make sure I didn't get it. Sure enough he doesn't like the one he decided to go with so I got a panicked call yesterday wanting to know if I could get it built and installed in Detroit by Wednesday of next week. The good news is he'll have a nice check waiting on me but the bad news is I'm going to have to work all weekend. This is twice this has happened to me so far this year, I'm doing better on the jobs I'm trying not to get than the ones I am getting.

385 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:36:33am

Belinda Keaton: Bill, Bill, are you all right? Did you break anything, Bill?
Bill Blazejowski: I caught an updraft.
Chuck Lumley: Are you ok?
Bill: Yeah, I'm all right, don't worry, I'm all right, fortunately the ground broke my fall.

386 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:36:48am

re: #384 RogueOne

Gotta run. Last month I bid a job I didn't want, because I knew the owner would be ultra-picky, so I doubled my quote to make sure I didn't get it. Sure enough he doesn't like the one he decided to go with so I got a panicked call yesterday wanting to know if I could get it built and installed in Detroit by Wednesday of next week. The good news is he'll have a nice check waiting on me but the bad news is I'm going to have to work all weekend. This is twice this has happened to me so far this year, I'm doing better on the jobs I'm trying not to get than the ones I am getting.

Congrats/that sucks?
/

387 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:39:12am

re: #381 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I got on the "Night Shift" kick this morning, because it has one of the greatest throw away movie lines (IMO) in history.

"Oh, that Barney Rubble. What an actor!"

"So how are you wiring that? 220?"
"220, 221, whatever it takes".
-Mr. Mom

388 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:40:27am

re: #387 Cannadian Club Akbar

"So how are you wiring that? 220?"
"220, 221, whatever it takes".
-Mr. Mom

"You wanna beer?"
"It's 9 o'clock in the morning!"
"Scotch?"

389 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 4:45:35am

Gotta run. I'm off today and these silly kids want breakfast. I tell you, if it's not water it's food with these guys!
//

390 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:06:29am

Now THESE GUYS are red necks!!!
[Link: abclocal.go.com...]

391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:08:52am

re: #390 Cannadian Club Akbar

Dude... you what would be fun? Let's go over to old man Johnson's barn and steal his alliga...

It is worse than a zombie plague. The world is over-run with stupid.

392 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:21:39am

re: #391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My favorite part is the fact that the barn owner followed the tracks of the truck and caught the guys. I mean, c'mon.

393 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:41:10am

re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar

My favorite part is the fact that the barn owner followed the tracks of the truck and caught the guys. I mean, c'mon.

WHUR'S MAH FLAT GATUR!

394 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:43:55am

Morning Lizardim. Happy Friday to all.

395 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:44:20am

re: #90 BongCrodny

"As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species."

-- Idiocracy

An idiot filled dystopian future is not an uncommon Sci-fi trope. Kornbluth's "The Marching Morons" for instance. The Morlock/Eloi split in _The Time Machine_ is a variant as well. Not to mention putting all your telephone sanitizers on the Ark ship...

396 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:47:59am

I have to call my mom and step dad. Please shoot me.

397 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:55:07am

re: #182 ggt

Somehow I learned that "people will know you by your actions". A true religious person shouldn't have to subjugate others to their way of thinking. It should be more of an attraction.

I guess there is more money in forced religion . . .

Or is it that if they get power they have all this lovely tax money to start "using" in favor of their pet projects and personal well-being?

398 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:58:25am

Not the kind of Employment numbers everyone was hoping for...

399 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:58:57am

Good morning Lizards from hazy Philadelphia.

A very *big* TGIF since I am going on vacation for three weeks and travelling abroad for the first time in a decade. I will take pictures and post them once I get back since I am going sans laptop and will generally be off-line.

Residents are requested to try to keep the country from turning into a revisionist theocracy while I am gone.
;)

400 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:59:29am

re: #395 oaktree

An idiot filled dystopian future is not an uncommon Sci-fi trope. Kornbluth's "The Marching Morons" for instance. The Morlock/Eloi split in _The Time Machine_ is a variant as well. Not to mention putting all your telephone sanitizers on the Ark ship...


Yep. And that's also at the heart of every zombie movie ever made. Zombies may be bloodthirsty, but the zombie future is still basically a world overrun by idiots.

401 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 5:59:57am

re: #399 oaktree

Good morning Lizards from hazy Philadelphia.

A very *big* TGIF since I am going on vacation for three weeks and travelling abroad for the first time in a decade. I will take pictures and post them once I get back since I am going sans laptop and will generally be off-line.

Residents are requested to try to keep the country from turning into a revisionist theocracy while I am gone.
;)

Oh, that's marvelous! Enjoy your vacation. Hopefully the crazy won't have infected us few remaining sane people while you are gone.

402 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:01:16am

re: #399 oaktree

Good morning Lizards from hazy Philadelphia.

A very *big* TGIF since I am going on vacation for three weeks and travelling abroad for the first time in a decade. I will take pictures and post them once I get back since I am going sans laptop and will generally be off-line.

Residents are requested to try to keep the country from turning into a revisionist theocracy while I am gone.
;)

Have a great trip! Where are you going?

403 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:02:49am

re: #402 Alouette

Going to see some broad, I think.

404 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:03:31am

re: #398 Ericus58

Not the kind of Employment numbers everyone was hoping for...

My radio said 18K jobs added but 9.2%.

405 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:07:16am

re: #402 Alouette

Have a great trip! Where are you going?

Southeast Asia - Malaysia for the most part, plus a short side trip to Vietnam. Travelling with my brother's family and my sister-in-law is from Kuala Lumpor (sp).

Never been out that way before, but I was told to pack for humid and hot and to have a set of snorkel gear. :)

406 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:08:41am

re: #402 Alouette

Have a great trip! Where are you going?

And I am trying to not emulate one of my managers who was vacationing in Indonesia earlier this year and managed to get her passport stolen.

407 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:09:19am

re: #404 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio said 18K jobs added but 9.2%.

[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

408 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:10:44am

re: #406 oaktree

And I am trying to not emulate one of my managers who was vacationing in Indonesia earlier this year and managed to get her passport stolen.

Since I am a "plan ahead" guy I would say know where our embassies are ahead of time. And bring me something back.:)

409 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:11:41am

re: #405 oaktree

Southeast Asia - Malaysia for the most part, plus a short side trip to Vietnam. Travelling with my brother's family and my sister-in-law is from Kuala Lumpor (sp).

Never been out that way before, but I was told to pack for humid and hot and to have a set of snorkel gear. :)

Oooh, you simply must tell us how the food is. I LOVE Asian food of all varieties.

410 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:13:45am

re: #404 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio said 18K jobs added but 9.2%.

Analyst had projected around 80K, and some had upped their number to 135K after yesterdays report. Turned out to be a lead ballon.
And a revision of the past two months numbers down another 44K...

There will be clammering on the hill today.

411 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:14:46am

re: #410 Ericus58

rabblerabblerabblerabbleclamorclamorclamorrhubarbrhubarbrhubarb

412 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:15:03am

re: #411 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

rabblerabblerabblerabbleclamorclamorclamorrhubarbr hubarbrhubarb

You need to get your muffler replaced, bro.

413 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:15:44am

re: #412 thedopefishlives

You need to get your muffler replaced, bro.

At the end I read it as "Rhubarb".

414 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:15:55am

re: #412 thedopefishlives

You need to get your muffler replaced, bro.

He's gong to that phat muffler civic sound...
/

415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:16:36am

re: #413 Cannadian Club Akbar

Because it is rhubarb. I don't know how that space got in there.

416 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:18:01am

re: #415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Because it is rhubarb. I don't know how that space got in there.

You're an ebil genius and stuff.

417 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:18:12am

re: #409 thedopefishlives

Oooh, you simply must tell us how the food is. I LOVE Asian food of all varieties.

My brother has remarked that the time in Kuala Lumpor will be spent eating, going to a place to eat, or talking about where we are going to eat next. It appears to be some sort of cultural obsession.

If I get some computer time I'll see about adding food comments to threads in the best possible off-topic way.

CCA - should I send you a durian? :-D

418 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:18:44am

Three runs down, ninth inning, bases loaded, two outs.... grand slam.

What is cooler in baseball than that? Yay, Indians. Travis Hafner.

419 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:21:10am

WTF is wrong with my effing computer!!!

420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:21:24am

re: #416 Cannadian Club Akbar

A running joke in theatre is to say, "RhubarbRhubarbRhubarbWatermelonWatermelonWatermelon" when you are carrying on a silent conversation with another extra while the real action is going on somewhere else.

421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:22:29am

re: #419 Cannadian Club Akbar

WTF is wrong with my effing computer!!!

PEBCAK? But, I'm just guessing.

422 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:23:32am

re: #420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And it wass a running joke on The Goon Show to audibly and clearly say "rhubarb rhubarb" when there was supposed to be a commotion.

423 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:25:20am

brb gdi!!

424 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:27:21am

re: #422 Obdicut

And it wass a running joke on The Goon Show to audibly and clearly say "rhubarb rhubarb" when there was supposed to be a commotion.

And "Hubbub".

425 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:30:05am
Youtube Video

The dreaded batter puddling hurler.

426 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:31:28am

Is this funny?

427 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:32:50am

re: #426 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Is this funny?

Kinda. My wife gets jewelry stolen from her by TSA a lot.

428 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:34:57am

re: #427 Obdicut

I think the funny part is the motherfucker's able to take pictures, put the shit on ebay and sell it before his shift is over.

Some managements heads should roll along with his. This is a complete lack of proper supervision.

429 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:37:03am

re: #427 Obdicut

Kinda. My wife gets jewelry stolen from her by TSA a lot.

Seriously?! That just sucks the big wingwang.

430 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:40:59am

re: #428 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think the funny part is the motherfucker's able to take pictures, put the shit on ebay and sell it before his shift is over.

Some managements heads should roll along with his. This is a complete lack of proper supervision.

That was the point that struck me, too. I mean, quite aside from stealing out of people's luggage, this guy's got a JOB to do, right? We've all seen the airport security lines, there isn't a whole lot of downtime where he'd be able to just sneak a few Craigslist/eBay postings.

431 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:41:16am

re: #428 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I think the funny part is the motherfucker's able to take pictures, put the shit on ebay and sell it before his shift is over.

Some managements heads should roll along with his. This is a complete lack of proper supervision.

TSA can't really work, economically. There are too many positions to fill, the jobs are uninteresting, and the actual benefit to security is rather small. There's no way we can staff all those jobs with competent, ethical personnel.

I don't have a good solution to airport security, and I'm not a crazy anti-TSA wingnut. It's just that when you've got that many people, things like that will happen. They're exposed constantly to people's valuables; it's an easy position to abuse.

432 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:42:21am

Morning all,

It's a bittersweet day. I've got [Link: www.ustream.tv...] in another window with about 1:50:00.00 left until the last shuttle launch. Soon we'll be in another place like we were in the late 70's with no man capable launch vehicles. And we'll be that way even longer than we were that time.

433 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:42:34am

re: #430 thedopefishlives

That was the point that struck me, too. I mean, quite aside from stealing out of people's luggage, this guy's got a JOB to do, right? We've all seen the airport security lines, there isn't a whole lot of downtime where he'd be able to just sneak a few Craigslist/eBay postings.

You can do it from your iphone on your break.

Which means he was taking pictures of them in, like, the break room, or somewhere else.

434 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:43:06am

You people think you have problems with the TSA? Really?

435 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:45:08am

re: #432 wlewisiii

A little radar for ya.
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

436 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:46:07am

Ah, here's the song for today.

Youtube Video
437 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:46:41am

re: #427 Obdicut

Kinda. My wife gets jewelry stolen from her by TSA a lot.

Wait, what? Anything valuable? Can't you make a claim?

438 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:46:47am

re: #434 Cannadian Club Akbar

You people think you have problems with the TSA? Really?

...I didn't even have to click that. Gotta love my status bar. :P

439 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:47:27am

Wingnuts are thrilled about some bad economic news today.

440 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:49:09am

Way back before 2000, one of the things that used to be recommended was locking your suitcases. Some baggage handlers had sticky fingers, and there are plenty of opportunities to pop open and quick-search baggage while unobserved.

Because you can't lock them AND because all your carry-on is searched the opportunities have increased. Depending on which reports you're following, between one and ten percent of flyers may have something disappear from their luggage.

If I can drive there within a day (10 -12 hours) I don't fly. This is one of the reasons why.

441 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:49:20am

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts are thrilled about some bad economic news today.

What's so bad? We increased jobs to the point where more people are looking again. That's how you get an increase in both numbers. It's not the best possible news but it's a boatload better than it could be.

442 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:52:20am

re: #440 kirkspencer

Way back before 2000, one of the things that used to be recommended was locking your suitcases. Some baggage handlers had sticky fingers, and there are plenty of opportunities to pop open and quick-search baggage while unobserved.

Because you can't lock them AND because all your carry-on is searched the opportunities have increased. Depending on which reports you're following, between one and ten percent of flyers may have something disappear from their luggage.

If I can drive there within a day (10 -12 hours) I don't fly. This is one of the reasons why.

I'm similar is preferring driving to flying for distances close to that. Though it is more regarding convenience of scheduling travel and cargo capacity as compared to worrying that the TSA will steal my stuff. (I tend to air travel all carry-on in any case if possible.)

And I tend to break up the longer drives by scheduling more time and doing some sort of "tourist stop" on the way to look at a historical site or museum of interest.

443 aagcobb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 6:59:41am

re: #432 wlewisiii

Morning all,

It's a bittersweet day. I've got [Link: www.ustream.tv...] in another window with about 1:50:00.00 left until the last shuttle launch. Soon we'll be in another place like we were in the late 70's with no man capable launch vehicles. And we'll be that way even longer than we were that time.

That really doesn't bother me because there's no place for people to go. I'm all for a vigorous space program, but we can explore the universe with robots in a much more cost effective manner, and no-one has to die in the process.

444 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:00:21am

re: #441 wlewisiii

What's so bad? We increased jobs to the point where more people are looking again. That's how you get an increase in both numbers. It's not the best possible news but it's a boatload better than it could be.

No, we have not increased jobs to that point. We only increased jobs by 18,000. To get a handle on that, you need 150,000 new jobs to break even with increasing potential work population.

Look. U3 (official unemployment) did not remain unchanged. It increased from 9.1 to 9.2%. U6, the kitchen sink measure, went from 15.8 to 16.2. (all seasonally adjusted). See [Link: bls.gov...] for the source.

This was not a good report. It was also not surprising - if you put a government workers in Minnesota (among others) out of work unemployment will go up.

445 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:01:12am

re: #437 Alouette

Wait, what? Anything valuable? Can't you make a claim?

Little stuff. She used to be a jeweler, so she has lots of little bits of jewelry she wears. Most expensive thing was a $120 necklace. I have no idea how to make a claim, but since she can't prove she took it with her I would bet the hassle isn't worth it.

446 aagcobb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:01:41am

re: #439 Killgore Trout

Wingnuts are thrilled about some bad economic news today.

One reason the job numbers are getting worse is because the government labor force keeps dropping, which is exactly what the TP wants.

447 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:06:03am

re: #442 oaktree

I'm similar is preferring driving to flying for distances close to that. Though it is more regarding convenience of scheduling travel and cargo capacity as compared to worrying that the TSA will steal my stuff. (I tend to air travel all carry-on in any case if possible.)

And I tend to break up the longer drives by scheduling more time and doing some sort of "tourist stop" on the way to look at a historical site or museum of interest.

As I said, "one of the reasons". Yours, also. I figured out that by the time I got to the airport, did the check in, security, loaded, flew and all the rest, I could get there faster for anything under five hours. Six to eight was a 'depends on destination'. (I'm two hours from Atlanta airport. There's a decent small airport nearby but almost all destinations require a connecting flight with a change of plane required. So I can be three hours down the road or I can be boarding an airplane in three hours - maybe.)

448 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:06:40am

re: #440 kirkspencer

I make sure not to pack valuables in my checked bags; only in a carry on. Because I always travel with mrs. lawhawk, one of us always has an eye on our bags at all times. Never had any problems, though I used to have my bags hand searched regularly b/c I used to carry lots of film and the scanners would want a closer inspection. Since going digital, that happens a whole lot less.

449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:09:16am

I hate unemployment numbers so much. Anyone who would root for the amount of pain that comes with that dreadful stat should be ashamed.

I'd rather have cancer than be unemployed.

450 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:09:46am

re: #444 kirkspencer

The MN state closure didn't affect the May figures, and I don't think that the June report would pick up the shutdown either. If the shutdown lasts, it will have a definite effect because ancillary businesses that rely on state business will see lost revenues and have to curtail their operations until the state reopens.

451 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:13:21am

re: #445 Obdicut

Little stuff. She used to be a jeweler, so she has lots of little bits of jewelry she wears. Most expensive thing was a $120 necklace. I have no idea how to make a claim, but since she can't prove she took it with her I would bet the hassle isn't worth it.

Airlines won't comp for jewelry claims, pretty much for the reason you give. I've seen a lot of suggestions but they all run into the fact that for a period of time - seconds to a minute - you and your jewelry are separated.

452 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:13:34am

This whole state shutdown thing is really getting on my nerves. We're now the laughingstock of the country, and for what? Playing politics over the state budget? Quite frankly, I'd rather the Republicans take their politicking and stick it somewhere very uncomfortable. I've never had kind thoughts for any politician who felt it worthwhile to tie his political agenda to the continued operation of government offices and services.

453 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:15:47am

re: #450 lawhawk

The MN state closure didn't affect the May figures, and I don't think that the June report would pick up the shutdown either. If the shutdown lasts, it will have a definite effect because ancillary businesses that rely on state business will see lost revenues and have to curtail their operations until the state reopens.

Point. On the other hand there were releases in May and June from many states. One example is that a lot of teachers were informed their contracts would not be renewed as total teacher count was decreased and class size increased.

454 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:15:59am

re: #446 aagcobb

To that end:

Apparently, experts had been expecting 105,000 jobs to be added. Some had been expecting a rebound in manufacturing jobs, after dealing with impact from the Japanese earthquake, but only 6,000 jobs were added. Government jobs fell by 39,000, but jobs in the professional and business services grew by 12,000.

Experts were figuring on 93000 more jobs created than they actually got. If there were no govt job cuts, we'd still fall short by 54000.

And the govt job cuts include states like NY, which just axed another couple hundred jobs in their Tax and Finance out-of-state audit unit that happens to be located in Chicago. They've eliminated the unit and will carry out their audits from their Albany offices.

455 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:17:24am

For those inclined to keep up to the minute on the Shuttle launch:
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

456 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:18:01am

re: #451 kirkspencer

Documentation helps - taking a photo of your luggage as you pack - showing those items with a time stamp (and you could then use that to make a claim to insurance depending on its cost or to the TSA/airport/airline).

457 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:18:08am

re: #451 kirkspencer

Airlines won't comp for jewelry claims, pretty much for the reason you give. I've seen a lot of suggestions but they all run into the fact that for a period of time - seconds to a minute - you and your jewelry are separated.

And I suspect neither the TSA or the airlines want to spend the time and effort setting up any sort of internal "sting" operation with monitored/planted valuables in luggage intended to root out the abuses.

Or, if they are doing it, they have no interest in publicizing the effort since it's negative publicity.

458 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:18:55am

re: #451 kirkspencer

"Yeah. I had the uh... the uh... HOPE DIAMOND in my bag. That's the ticket! Was taking it home to my... uh... wife! Morgan Fairchild! Yeah! Morgan Fairchild is my wife! At home! Waiting on me to bring her diamond!"

459 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:21:31am

re: #456 lawhawk

Documentation helps - taking a photo of your luggage as you pack - showing those items with a time stamp (and you could then use that to make a claim to insurance depending on its cost or to the TSA/airport/airline).

No, you don't understand. Airlines WILL NOT COMP for jewelry losses. Using for example United Airlines policy:

Limits of liability
United will cover all reasonable, actual and verifiable expenses related to baggage loss, damage or delay up to the established baggage liability limits set forth by the U.S. Department of Transportation for domestic travel and the Montreal Convention for international travel including domestic portion of international travel.

For travel wholly between points in the U.S., United will not be liable for loss of money, jewelry, cameras, negotiable papers/securities, electronic/video/ photographic equipment, heirlooms, antiques, artifacts, works of art, silverware, irreplaceable books/publications/manuscripts/business documents, precious metals and other similar valuable and commercial effects. United prohibits the foregoing items being placed in checked baggage for travel wholly between points in the U.S. as well as for international transportation.

460 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:23:33am

re: #459 kirkspencer

He also said "to insurance". Insurance may cover it, if it's a valuable item such as a ring.

461 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:24:12am

re: #460 thedopefishlives

He also said "to insurance". Insurance may cover it, if it's a valuable item such as a ring.

point, and true.

462 aagcobb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:25:08am

re: #454 lawhawk

To that end:


Experts were figuring on 93000 more jobs created than they actually got. If there were no govt job cuts, we'd still fall short by 54000.

And the govt job cuts include states like NY, which just axed another couple hundred jobs in their Tax and Finance out-of-state audit unit that happens to be located in Chicago. They've eliminated the unit and will carry out their audits from their Albany offices.

I would suggest that part of the reason private job creation is anemic is because government employees who have lost their jobs, or are afraid of losing their jobs, and whose salaries are either frozen or getting cut, aren't spending money, which exerts downward pressure on consumer demand.

463 darthstar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:25:50am

re: #438 laZardo

...I didn't even have to click that. Gotta love my status bar. :P

It's a good read though.

464 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:26:03am

re: #459 kirkspencer

I fully understand, which is why I said insurance and claims against TSA/airlines/airports. The waiver of liability for those losses could be read so as to apply only to checked luggage, so I would still file a claim with the airline if those items were taken from my carry-on luggage.

465 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:29:20am

" 1522: David Shukman Environment & science correspondent, BBC News

Alison Balch-Smith, the daughter of astronaut Mike Smith, one of the seven people who died in the Challenger explosion in 1986, tells me she was in tears on the bus here but finds strength from meeting others in the space community. "

466 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:29:30am

Buffett Bets ‘Very Heavily’ Against Second Recession Even After Jobs Data


Billionaire Warren Buffett said he is wagering on continued economic expansion and doesn’t expect a second recession.

“I would bet very heavily against that,” Buffett told Bloomberg Television’s Betty Liu on the “In the Loop” program today after data showed slowing U.S. job growth. “How fast the recovery will come, I don’t know. I see nothing that indicates any kind of a double dip.”

467 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:34:10am

re: #449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I hate unemployment numbers so much. Anyone who would root for the amount of pain that comes with that dreadful stat should be ashamed.

I'd rather have cancer than be unemployed.

I think I'd rather be unemployed than have cancer.

468 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:34:46am

live feed: President Obama Speaks on Monthly Job Numbers
Starting soon

469 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:37:59am

re: #445 Obdicut

Little stuff. She used to be a jeweler, so she has lots of little bits of jewelry she wears. Most expensive thing was a $120 necklace. I have no idea how to make a claim, but since she can't prove she took it with her I would bet the hassle isn't worth it.

I lost a pair of diamond earrings at the Marriott in L.A. I called housekeeping and had them search behind the dresser and the closet and they said "Oh, you'll probably find them in your suitcase" but I never did.

Homeowner's insurance would not cover them because I didn't file a police report of theft because I didn't know if there was a theft or not. (maybe there was)

This was 3 years ago. I'm still seething about it.

470 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:40:14am

re: #466 Killgore Trout

Buffett Bets ‘Very Heavily’ Against Second Recession Even After Jobs Data

That's just one opinion and it's from Buffett whom I don't take very seriously. Despite him hedging his bets and expanding his own company holdings which is mentioned in the article. We see a lot of this type of positive outlook from many like him which is counter to the realities out on the street. We heard it through 2010 and now we're hearing it once again in 2011. There may not be a double dip but there certainly is nothing we can call a "robust" recovery.

471 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:42:23am

re: #468 Killgore Trout

live feed: President Obama Speaks on Monthly Job Numbers
Starting soon

A leaf just fell from the tree on the left.... we're doomed!

472 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:43:00am

re: #467 Alouette

I know, it's an entirely stupid, irrational attitude. But, honestly? I mean it.

473 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:43:27am

re: #470 Gus 802

That's just one opinion and it's from Buffett whom I don't take very seriously. Despite him hedging his bets and expanding his own company holdings which is mentioned in the article. We see a lot of this type of positive outlook from many like him which is counter to the realities out on the street. We heard it through 2010 and now we're hearing it once again in 2011. There may not be a double dip but there certainly is nothing we can call a "robust" recovery.

I was reading up on this yesterday. I know a lot of people are frustrated at the pace of the recovery but I get the feeling that it's intentionally slow. If the economy grows too fast it gets harder to control inflation and there's an increased risk of creating another bubble. I think the pace of the recovery is somewhat intentional.

474 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:44:56am

re: #471 Ericus58

A leaf just fell from the tree on the left... we're doomed!

Fox News: Leaves falling in August? Further proof Global Warming is a hoax!

475 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:47:03am

re: #474 Killgore Trout

Fox News: Leaves falling in August? Further proof Global Warming is a hoax!

phft - by August there will be no leaves!!

just small children, huddled around a fire barrel trying to sell matches...

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:48:47am

re: #475 Ericus58

"More, please".
-Oliver Twist

477 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:49:30am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"More, please".
-Oliver Twist

NO SOUP FOR YOU!
-Soup Nazi

478 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:50:27am

re: #473 Killgore Trout

I was reading up on this yesterday. I know a lot of people are frustrated at the pace of the recovery but I get the feeling that it's intentionally slow. If the economy grows too fast it gets harder to control inflation and there's an increased risk of creating another bubble. I think the pace of the recovery is somewhat intentional.

That's fine. But I was thinking a moment ago. Once there is a so called recovery the decks are still stacked against the average Joe/Jane with rising costs across all fronts. We have systemic inequities and challenges that a simple economic recovery will not fix. Most of which includes healthcare, housing, rent, transportation, lifetime employment, retirement, etc. Back to this stalled recovery. I realize this will make the administration look bad but that's just the way it is. It's a stalled recovery and it's not a very good one. Unemployment is still high and banks have hunkered down on investment loans. New construction is still doing poorly. No amount of rhetoric will change those things.

479 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:51:16am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"More, please".
-Oliver Twist

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

480 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:51:34am

"behind the curtained windows of the doors leading to the podium, figures could be seen frantically moving while the WH staff tried to find the keys to unlock the doors...."

481 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:52:51am

I'm watching HBO's recording of "The Pee-Wee Herman" revival show on Broadway from last year.

Still freakin' hysterical. How Paul Reubens keeps that mania going for an hour is mind-boggling.

482 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:53:49am

re: #478 Gus 802

I also think higher energy costs are feeding into things too - it adds to the cost of pretty much everything a business does or an individual buys. Nearly all those costs get passed on to the end-user, further reducing the buying power. Sometimes, vendors or manufacturers wont pass on the costs directly, but might reduce package size or eat the difference to maintain market share but that's not always the case.

483 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:56:30am

re: #482 lawhawk

This is especially true in the food industry, where they essentially eat a triple-whammy - higher energy costs in the field for food producers; higher transport costs; and higher production costs. Grocery bills have gone up noticeably in the fish household, and we certainly haven't increased the amount of food we buy.

484 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:56:46am

meanwhile...

" 1553:
The four astronauts are in their seats, the hatch has been sealed and the closeup crew have left the shuttle. The countdown continues."

485 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:57:43am

re: #482 lawhawk

I also think higher energy costs are feeding into things too - it adds to the cost of pretty much everything a business does or an individual buys. Nearly all those costs get passed on to the end-user, further reducing the buying power. Sometimes, vendors or manufacturers wont pass on the costs directly, but might reduce package size or eat the difference to maintain market share but that's not always the case.

Right. Especially food prices. Which went up recently as I have noticed. There was a lag between those and energy prices after the spike in oil prices. Things are still very unstable in the Middle East and North Africa so those prices may spike again. Typically we expect the summer months to carry us into fall and winter. It's been rather lukewarm thus far.

486 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 7:57:58am

re: #473 Killgore Trout

I was reading up on this yesterday. I know a lot of people are frustrated at the pace of the recovery but I get the feeling that it's intentionally slow. If the economy grows too fast it gets harder to control inflation and there's an increased risk of creating another bubble. I think the pace of the recovery is somewhat intentional.

Sorta. There's a lot of classic theory and experience that tie employment and inflation. However, the critical point for that happens when unemployment is under 5%, and depending on which theory you're referencing may be as low as 2%.

There is some theory on whether and how much rate of change in unemployment would also have an impact. Keeping it very simplistic, the freshwater schools (neo-classical, monetarist, etc) tend to say a lot and the saltwater (keynesian) schools tend to say very little. Or still simple but more accurate, the freshwater says the relationship is very sensitive and the saltwaters say its very insensitive. Unlike the unemployment to inflation situation, however, there's not much evidence on how rate of change in unemployment affects inflation.

487 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:01:26am

Assad's furious that US Ambassador Ford went to Hama to witness mass protests against the regime. Assad says that the ambassador met with saboteurs in Hama who, it said, “erected checkpoints, cut traffic and prevented citizens from going to work. The ambassador incited these saboteurs to violence, to demonstrate and to refuse dialogue.”

Hundreds of thousands of people are saboteurs? Peaceful demonstrators are the threat to the regime, so it tries to paint every last one as a foreign agent, saboteur, and therefore a legitimate target for attacks - which it continues to do throughout the country with limited results since the protests keep on coming.

488 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:01:29am

NASA's own video coverage of final Shuttle launch.
26 minutes to launch, weather looking good.

489 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:02:09am

re: #488 Shiplord Kirel

NASA's own video coverage of final Shuttle launch.
26 minutes to launch, weather looking good.

It's a beautiful day in south Florida. Let's go flying.

490 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:02:58am

re: #488 Shiplord Kirel

The final rollout of the shuttle:

[Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...]

120,000+ photos taken with multiple cameras document the final rollout of the shuttle as it is assembled on the stack at the VLB and rolled along the crawler to its launch pad.

491 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:05:43am

re: #489 thedopefishlives

It's a beautiful day in south Florida. Let's go flying.

They better hurry up!

//

492 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:05:52am

re: #481 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm watching HBO's recording of "The Pee-Wee Herman" revival show on Broadway from last year.

Still freakin' hysterical. How Paul Reubens keeps that mania going for an hour is mind-boggling.

He has a good pharmacist!

493 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:06:45am

Obama talking now

494 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:06:49am

NASA Shuttle Landing Facility
Lat: 28.62 Lon: -80.72 Elev: 10
Last Update on Jul 8, 10:55 am EDT

Humidity: 74 %
Wind Speed: S 12 MPH
Barometer: NA
Dewpoint: 75 °F (24 °C)
Heat Index: 92 °F (33 °C)
Visibility: 10.00 mi.

495 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:07:34am

re: #493 Killgore Trout

Obama talking now

I expect a full report by 0900. /

496 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:07:42am

re: #490 lawhawk

The final rollout of the shuttle:

[Link: lawhawk.blogspot.com...]

120,000+ photos taken with multiple cameras document the final rollout of the shuttle as it is assembled on the stack at the VLB and rolled along the crawler to its launch pad.

The Space Shuttle system is amazing technology. It'll be a shame to lose that capability, but understandable, given the expense and the age of the vehicles. Hopefully we can come up with something even more ingenious in the near future.

497 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:09:18am

re: #493 Killgore Trout

Obama talking now

"Shut up! You're talking over the Space Shuttle's last launch!"

/

498 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:09:33am

re: #495 Gus 802

I expect a full report by 0900. /

in triplicate

annotated and sorted

499 Ericus58  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:09:45am

re: #491 Gus 802

They better hurry up!

//

" 1608:
Nasa says there is only a 10-minute launch window for flights to the International Space Station, and 1126 EDT is in the middle of today's window. That's 22 minutes from now."

500 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:10:04am

re: #499 Ericus58

" 1608:
Nasa says there is only a 10-minute launch window for flights to the International Space Station, and 1126 EDT is in the middle of today's window. That's 22 minutes from now."

T-minus 9 minutes and holding. :C

501 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:10:16am

re: #496 thedopefishlives

The Space Shuttle system is amazing technology. It'll be a shame to lose that capability, but understandable, given the expense and the age of the vehicles. Hopefully we can come up with something even more ingenious in the near future.

feh

Wile E Coyote did the same stuff with a cheap box full of ACME parts!

502 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:11:29am

re: #498 sattv4u2

in triplicate

annotated and sorted

Fire up the mimeograph!

503 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:11:38am

re: #501 sattv4u2

feh

Wile E Coyote did the same stuff with a cheap box full of ACME parts!

NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that would be capable of writing in zero gravity. The Russians just used pencils.

504 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:12:53am

re: #503 thedopefishlives

NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that would be capable of writing in zero gravity. The Russians just used pencils.

It's amazing what humans can do with a pencil and paper. /

505 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:13:02am

OT, but while the rebels are stuck demining the town of Qwaleesh, NATO is now pounding the hell out of Qaddafi positions between the town the rebels are in, and Gharyan.

At the Misrata Front, the rebels are now 7-9 km (4.3-5.6 miles) from the center of Zliten.

506 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:13:05am

re: #502 Gus 802

Fire up the mimeograph!

damn ,,,, after my mom passed we were going through some stuff in her basement and found one of those
Used to take, what,, a week to ten days to get that ink off your fingers!!

507 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:13:14am

re: #495 Gus 802

I expect a full report by 0900. /

Synopsis: "Blah blah blah blah"

508 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:14:29am

re: #504 Gus 802

It's amazing what humans can do with a pencil and paper. /

Chuck Norris could wipe out an entire division of bad guys with just that!

509 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:14:51am

re: #507 Killgore Trout

Synopsis: "Blah blah blah blah"

That's what everything sounds like before coffee.

510 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:15:32am

re: #487 lawhawk

Assad's furious that US Ambassador Ford went to Hama to witness mass protests against the regime. Assad says that the ambassador met with saboteurs in Hama who, it said, “erected checkpoints, cut traffic and prevented citizens from going to work. The ambassador incited these saboteurs to violence, to demonstrate and to refuse dialogue.”

Hundreds of thousands of people are saboteurs? Peaceful demonstrators are the threat to the regime, so it tries to paint every last one as a foreign agent, saboteur, and therefore a legitimate target for attacks - which it continues to do throughout the country with limited results since the protests keep on coming.

You can blow out a candle, but you can't blow out a fire. Once the flame begins to catch the wind just blows it higher.

511 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:16:36am

11 die in Yemen after president's TV appearance


President Ali Abdullah Saleh's supporters have opened fire, killing at least 11 people across Yemen after their leader's first television appearance since his injury last month.

Hospital officials say most of Friday's shooting was in celebration of Saleh's TV address the previous evening but it's unclear if all the deaths were accidental.

512 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:16:38am

re: #503 thedopefishlives

NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that would be capable of writing in zero gravity. The Russians just used pencils.

Those wily Bolsheviks.
(If the Russians ran completely out of fuel and had to go back to horses to transport their army, dozens of Pentagon lobbyists would deploy around the clock to push a multi-billion dollar anti-horse missile project.)

513 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:17:13am

re: #512 Shiplord Kirel

Those wily Bolsheviks.
(If the Russians ran completely out of fuel and had to go back to horses to transport their army, dozens of Pentagon lobbyists would deploy around the clock to push a multi-billion dollar anti-horse missile project.)

The horsefly?

514 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:17:43am

re: #487 lawhawk

Sounds like he's taking propaganda advice from the leaders of Fitzwalkerstan

//well, only half. Don't you know we protesters were stinky and caused millions in property damage and had to be kept out with metal detector screening points? Shesh. At least, though they wanted to, they aren't shooting at us here yet. Probably realize people here can, and will, shoot back.

515 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:17:48am

re: #512 Shiplord Kirel

Those wily Bolsheviks.
(If the Russians ran completely out of fuel and had to go back to horses to transport their army, dozens of Pentagon lobbyists would deploy around the clock to push a multi-billion dollar anti-horse missile project.)

20 years later that anti-horse missile project would still be "crashing".

//

516 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:17:56am

re: #487 lawhawk

Assad's furious that US Ambassador Ford went to Hama to witness mass protests against the regime. Assad says that the ambassador met with saboteurs in Hama who, it said, “erected checkpoints, cut traffic and prevented citizens from going to work. The ambassador incited these saboteurs to violence, to demonstrate and to refuse dialogue.”

Hundreds of thousands of people are saboteurs? Peaceful demonstrators are the threat to the regime, so it tries to paint every last one as a foreign agent, saboteur, and therefore a legitimate target for attacks - which it continues to do throughout the country with limited results since the protests keep on coming.

Why doesn't Assad just import the Gaza flotilla/flytilla as his own personal pro-regime demonstrators now that they have nothing to do?

517 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:18:06am

The wide-angle over Cape Canaveral is getting rather dark. Mission Control better get their groove on or they're not going to be getting off the launchpad.

518 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:18:06am

re: #510 oaktree

This isn't a candle anymore. It's a forest fire.

519 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:19:32am

re: #486 kirkspencer

Having stated that about the theory...

First, I agree that I think it's intentional, that they want to keep inflation down to next to nothing.

Second, I think it's stupid. The mandate of the fed is to minimize both inflation and unemployment (balancing the two) so as to maximize national growth. The optimum balance to maximize national growth has been around 3% inflation and ~4.5% unemployment.

Because of the liquidity trap we're in, historical gentle measures aren't working. We basically have two choices. First, we can gradually climb to the balance to avoid overshooting. That will take between one and two decades (estimated) and will leave us drastically under potential GDP growth - so much so that we might as well establish a new baseline for the potential. The second option is to hammer the unemployment. We will overshoot in that case with inflation reaching as high as 10%. The two advantages are that the unemployment would recover within a year and a half, and would recover to the potential within five years. However, the 10% inflation would be hard on companies that lent money.

520 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:19:47am

re: #516 Alouette

The flotilla of hope dope don't float.

521 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:20:38am

re: #515 Gus 802

20 years later that anti-horse missile project would still be "crashing".

//

The feasibility studies alone would take so long that better horses would evolve before they were finished.

522 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:21:10am

re: #517 thedopefishlives

The wide-angle over Cape Canaveral is getting rather dark. Mission Control better get their groove on or they're not going to be getting off the launchpad.

Picking up some Base Reflectivity.

523 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:21:39am

re: #522 Gus 802

Picking up some Base Reflectivity.

Mission Control reports all teams go for launch. Let's boogie.

524 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:21:50am

re: #521 Shiplord Kirel

The feasibility studies alone would take so long that better horses would evolve before they were finished.

We can't attack yet! We haven't gotten back the Environmental Impact Report (EIR)!

//

525 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:22:05am

re: #521 Shiplord Kirel

The feasibility studies alone would take so long that better horses would evolve before they were finished.

1st prototype

[Link: www.imageenvision.com...]

526 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:22:23am

re: #503 thedopefishlives

NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that would be capable of writing in zero gravity. The Russians just used pencils.

And the floating graphite and wood shavings were a fire and spark risk. When the zero-grav pens were made, Russia bought some.

527 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:23:03am

re: #505 ProLifeLiberal

I should note that, based on previous reports, the rebel "demining method" is poking the ground with sticks.

Injuries Ahoy!

528 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:23:11am

re: #503 thedopefishlives

NASA spent millions of dollars inventing a pen that would be capable of writing in zero gravity. The Russians just used pencils.

More funding to them! :P

529 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:23:43am

re: #524 Gus 802

We can't attack yet! We haven't gotten back the Environmental Impact Report (EIR)!

//

Not to mention the (kickbacks from) the "sealed bids"!

530 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:24:14am

re: #526 kirkspencer

And the floating graphite and wood shavings were a fire and spark risk. When the zero-grav pens were made, Russia bought some.

Oh, hush with your logic. I made a funny. :-P

531 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:24:41am

re: #526 kirkspencer

And the floating graphite and wood shavings were a fire and spark risk. When the zero-grav pens were made, Russia bought some.

Think of all the cash they saved on R&D!

532 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:24:56am

re: #529 sattv4u2

Not to mention the (kickbacks from) the "sealed bids"!

And the Haliburton bath towel sets!

//

533 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:25:39am

re: #532 Gus 802

And the Haliburton bath towel sets!

//

And the $8,973 toilet seats!

534 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:25:48am

America goes to war!

Bath Towels: 5 billion dollars.
Laundry: 100 billion dollars.
Straws: 3 billion dollars.
Beer: 10 billion dollars.

//

535 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:26:03am

T - 1.20 and counting

[Link: www.nasa.gov...]

536 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:26:53am

re: #534 Gus 802

America goes to war!

Bath Towels: 5 billion dollars.
Laundry: 100 billion dollars.
Straws: 3 billion dollars.
Beer: 10 billion dollars.

//

22 year old former Bikini Model "consultants"

PRICELESS

(unless you TWITTER a photo of yourself with her poolside"

537 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:27:34am

Here ya' go. You can get your very own Space Shuttle Pen for 14 bucks.

538 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:27:44am

They're in a hold at T-31 seconds... something failed

539 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:28:44am

re: #538 lawhawk

They're in a hold at T-31 seconds... something failed

Crankshaft went out.

//

540 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:28:57am

re: #538 lawhawk

They're in a hold at T-31 seconds... something failed

They did a shot of the brace the held the orbiter assembly upright on the pad. I wonder if it didn't retract fully.

541 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:29:18am

Resumed count... go for main engine start

542 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:29:26am

re: #527 ProLifeLiberal

I should note that, based on previous reports, the rebel "demining method" is poking the ground with sticks.

Injuries Ahoy!

Which is still pretty much the standard method. They've been making mines out of wood and non-metallics to spoof metal detectors since WW2 and plastic has just made it easier.

The vehicle rollers, flails, etc. are nice, but it boils down to poking the ground with sticks still. Unmarked minefields are a complete bitch - thus all the warfare "laws" regarding them and the various attempts to ban the use of mines. Unexploded artillery shells and other ordnance are a hazard, but they are sort of accidental. Mines are purposefully buried live ordnance.

(And another reason to fight your wars elsewhere so that someone else's land gets all screwed up. The French farmers are still removing dud WW1 stuff from their fields, including poison gas shells.)

543 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:29:26am

re: #538 lawhawk

They're in a hold at T-31 seconds... something failed

"I told you to go to the bathroom before we left!!"
/

544 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:29:36am

The clock is on. Flood the stage and let's get ready to light the fires.

545 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:30:15am

re: #538 lawhawk

They're in a hold at T-31 seconds... something failed

Tired hamsters.

546 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:30:27am

It's already up.

547 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:31:09am

Go for throttle up. 15 miles up.

548 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:31:22am

re: #546 Gus 802

It's already up.

The VIAGRA worked, huh?

549 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:32:01am

I never get tired of seeing that shot of the main engines firing off and blowing the column of steam across the launch complex.

550 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:32:03am

re: #548 sattv4u2

The VIAGRA worked, huh?

Until an Indiana state trooper pulls it over for having a headlight out...

551 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:32:27am

Not a Jersey Turnpike toll booth in sight

552 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:32:46am

SRB separation. On the way to the station.

553 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:32:52am

That's it. Final powered flight is done.

554 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:33:21am

re: #553 Gus 802

That's it. Final powered flight is done.

For now

555 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:33:38am

re: #551 researchok

Not a Jersey Turnpike toll booth in sight

Or worse. The Garden State Parkway. Stop. Go. Stop. Go. Stop...

556 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:34:20am

re: #555 Gus 802

Or worse. The Garden State Parkway. Stop. Go. Stop. Go. Stop...

GGAAAAHHHHHHH

557 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:34:33am

re: #554 researchok

For now

OK. 4 minutes remaining.

558 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:34:45am

re: #555 Gus 802

Or worse. The Garden State Parkway. Stop. Go. Stop. Go. Stop...

Memories.

Still, I miss Freehold and Bradley Beach

559 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:35:14am

7700 MPH

560 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:35:29am

re: #553 Gus 802

That's it. Final powered flight is done.

Youtube Video

29 seconds in is the next form of propulsion
561 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:36:15am

I am at the office. I put on the TV and watched the shuttle take off. I have goosebumps!

562 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:36:58am

12000 MPH

563 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:37:10am

re: #561 NJDhockeyfan

I am at the office. I put on the TV and watched the shuttle take off. I have goosebumps!

wouldn't your co-workers prefer you put on pants?

564 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:37:22am

I'd like to see a low pass of that.

WOOSH!

//

565 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:37:22am

I hope they went before liftoff.

If they didn't, my dad would be pissed.
//

566 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:37:51am

re: #565 researchok

I hope they went before liftoff.

If they didn't, my dad would be pissed.
//

Passengers must remain seated.

567 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:38:12am

re: #565 researchok

I hope they went before liftoff.

If they didn't, my dad would be pissed.
//

((see 543))

568 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:38:18am

Main engine cutoff! Last time.

569 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:38:29am

re: #542 oaktree

Yet another War Crime Qaddafi has committed.

Ever hear of the guy who has a ton+ bomb under his house from the Battle of Ypres?

570 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:38:40am

re: #566 Gus 802

Passengers must remain seated.

"Don't make me stop and come back there, you two"

571 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:38:44am

Tank is away. You're on your own now, kids, bring her home safely.

572 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:39:00am

re: #571 thedopefishlives

Tank is away. You're on your own now, kids, bring her home safely.

Amen

573 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:39:03am

Boehner: Failing To Raise The Debt Limit Puts Economy In Great Jeopardy

In a political role reversal Friday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) warned that Congress risks severely harming the economy and exacerbating the unemployment crisis if it fails to raise the national debt ceiling in the next four weeks.

"While some think we can go past August 2nd, I frankly think it puts us in an awful lot of jeopardy, and puts our economy in jeopardy, risking even more jobs," Boehner told reporters at his weekly Capitol briefing.

His statement comes as a quiet rebuke to members of his own party who've argued that smacking against the ceiling -- or even defaulting briefly on the debt -- poses no great risk to the economy.

What a dick.

574 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:39:17am

ET separation. Gah, that's so beautiful.

575 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:40:33am

re: #573 Killgore Trout

Boehner: Failing To Raise The Debt Limit Puts Economy In Great Jeopardy

What a dick.

Why is he a dick? Isn't that what everybody wants? To raise the debt limit...

576 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:40:55am

re: #574 wlewisiii

ET separation. Gah, that's so beautiful.

[Link: theprospectpark.blogspot.com...]

separated from,,,???

//

577 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:41:00am

re: #566 Gus 802

Passengers must remain seated.

If we had to stop before we hit the highway, my dad would be furious.

Before we were out of the drive, my mother would whip out sandwiches insisting we had to eat because we were not bringing food back. Then, there was the paper sack that contained 60 lbs of bananas, oranges and apples.

The trip was 200 miles.

578 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:42:07am

re: #577 researchok

If we had to stop before we hit the highway, my dad would be furious.

Before we were out of the drive, my mother would whip out sandwiches insisting we had to eat because we were not bringing food back. Then, there was the paper sack that contained 60 lbs of bananas, oranges and apples.

The trip was 200 miles.

Yeah. I remember something similar. Although I don't think we ever went 200 miles non-stop. But getting him to stop so we could go to the bathroom usually took a lot of... yelling.

579 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:42:24am

re: #573 Killgore Trout

Hold the phone - he's not a dick - he's actually rebuking those who think dicking around with the debt limit. He doesn't think it is a good idea.

That puts him on the correct side of the issue for a change.

580 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:42:24am

re: #575 Gus 802

Why is he a dick? Isn't that what everybody wants? To raise the debt limit...

Because the rest of his party he leads could care less.

He just wants to appear reasonable.

581 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:42:52am

re: #575 Gus 802

Why is he a dick? Isn't that what everybody wants? To raise the debt limit...

Knee jerk

582 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:43:12am

re: #579 lawhawk

Hold the phone - he's not a dick - he's actually rebuking those who think dicking around with the debt limit. He doesn't think it is a good idea.

That puts him on the correct side of the issue for a change.

Exactly. That's what I'm reading. Boehner will no doubt catch a lot of heat from the far-right. RINO!

583 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:43:21am

re: #561 NJDhockeyfan

I am at the office. I put on the TV and watched the shuttle take off. I have goosebumps!

My co-workers are still watching. We've got the NASA HD channel playing in the lounge area and they're all gathered around watching.

I have mixed feelings about the Shuttle program ending. My ex-stepdad worked at NASA, so it was a big part of my childhood. I can't help but get sentimental about the Shuttle program coming to an end. OTOH, I'm hopeful that this will lead to something newer and better down the line.

584 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:43:50am

re: #582 Gus 802

Exactly. That's what I'm reading. Boehner will no doubt catch a lot of heat from the far-right. RINO!

RINO Dick??

I think thats illegal to trade, like shark fins!

585 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:44:14am

re: #578 Gus 802

Yeah. I remember something similar. Although I don't think we ever went 200 miles non-stop. But getting him to stop so we could go to the bathroom usually took a lot of... yelling.

Who said non stop?

We stopped to pee more than a troupe of diabetics on IV's of pineapple juice

586 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:45:09am

re: #575 Gus 802

Why is he a dick? Isn't that what everybody wants? To raise the debt limit...

He's a little late in admitting the obvious. It also shows poor leadership when so many Republicans and leading candidates have come out in favor of a default. GOP has no message control.

587 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:45:49am

re: #585 researchok

Who said non stop?

We stopped to pee more than a troupe of diabetics on IV's of pineapple juice

HA

Sounds like Mrs Satty
When I drive from home to our place in South Carolina, I can make it in just under 6 hours
One 15 minute stop far gas/pee/coffee

When she's with me, it takes up OVER 8 hours (same route)

588 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:46:55am

re: #586 Killgore Trout

He's a little late in admitting the obvious. It also shows poor leadership when so many Republicans and leading candidates have come out in favor of a default. GOP has no message control.

In other words, the GOP isn't lock step on a given issue

Gee,, and here all the time I've been told they are!

589 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:47:09am

re: #580 researchok

Because the rest of his party he leads could care less.

He just wants to appear reasonable.

Nah, I think he's just trying to fight out of the prisoner's dilemma his party has put itself into.

Heck, it's almost classic.

Individually, each member is best served by voting against raising. (primary challenges, anger of the base.) As a group, the party and the nation is best served by raising the ceiling.

What I think Boehner is doing is trying to reduce the pain for members who vote for the increase by making plain to the near-base how important this is.

590 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:47:59am

Top Obama adviser says unemployment won't be key in 2012

President Obama’s senior political adviser David Plouffe said Wednesday that people won’t vote in 2012 based on the unemployment rate.

Plouffe should probably hope that’s the case, since dismal job figures aren’t expected to get any better for Obama and the economy on Friday.

Most economists expect a report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics to show that the nation added about 100,000 jobs in June. That’s not enough to keep up with population growth, let alone lower the unemployment rate or make a dent in the 9 million jobs lost during the so called Great Recession.

[UPDATED: The jobs report released on Friday showed the economy added only 18,000 jobs, much less than anticipated. The unemployment rate creeped up to 9.2 percent.]

I don't care what your political leanings are, these numbers are flat-out awful.

591 darthstar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:48:10am

Just watched Nasa's animated simulation of what it would look like if we could send a shuttle into space. Very good graphics. Lots of technical dialog about speed, altitude, etc...quite convincing. I wish the actors well in their studio for the next week or so.
///


Seriously, I love watching space launches. I think they're pretty fucking awesome and I'll be sad to see the shuttle program end.

592 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:48:50am

Longtime Boston Herald sports columnist and boxing writer George Kimball died of cancer.

sad

GREAT writer GREAT reporter,, old school style

593 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:48:50am

re: #579 lawhawk

Hold the phone - he's not a dick - he's actually rebuking those who think dicking around with the debt limit. He doesn't think it is a good idea.

That puts him on the correct side of the issue for a change.

It's a little late to start agreeing that the party is indeed holding the country hostage to ensure tax breaks for the rich. This just in....
GOP hardens resolve on debt talks after poor jobs report

So now he's openly admitting that they are holding up negotiations and threatening the country's economic security to lower taxes for the wealthy.

594 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:49:54am

re: #593 Killgore Trout


So now he's openly admitting that they are holding up negotiations and threatening the country's economic security to lower taxes for the wealthy.

Don't forget the regressive, nutjobby social agenda they're trying to push through, as well!

595 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:50:36am

re: #593 Killgore Trout

they are holding up negotiations

You do know what "negotiations" mean??
You give something,, I get something,, I give something,,,you get something

596 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:51:53am

re: #569 ProLifeLiberal

Yet another War Crime Qaddafi has committed.

Ever hear of the guy who has a ton+ bomb under his house from the Battle of Ypres?

Don't know that particular case/anecdote, but am not surprised.

I recall an anecdote from Alistar Cooke on Masterpiece Theatre when they showed "Danger: UXB" (program about a UK bomb disposal group in 1940.) One episode dealt with them handling unexploded magnetic trigger sea mines purposefully dropped on land with delay fuses.

Cooke mentioned that some years after the war someone on a golf course in England set one off that had apparently landed in/under a tree and not been discovered. They swung a club and the tree exploded. (A big boom since IIRC these babies had a pretty big explosive load.)

597 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:51:53am

re: #587 sattv4u2

HA

Sounds like Mrs Satty
When I drive from home to our place in South Carolina, I can make it in just under 6 hours
One 15 minute stop far gas/pee/coffee

When she's with me, it takes up OVER 8 hours (same route)

We'd be at a rest stop. My dad would march my kid brother into the bathroom, hold him up to the urinal and command him him to pee. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

As soon as we hit the highway entry ramp and my dad was accelerating, my brother would tap my dad an the shoulder and say, "...MERGENCY!" That was code for I have to pee (My sister was not allowed to know my brother ever had to pee),

There was one time that happened I was sure my dad was going to kill him. I was 7 or 8 at the time, so that would have been fine with me.

598 darthstar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:52:04am

re: #579 lawhawk

Hold the phone - he's not a dick - he's actually rebuking those who think dicking around with the debt limit. He doesn't think it is a good idea.

That puts him on the correct side of the issue for a change.

Boehner's just saying this so he can point the finger at Obama if he doesn't give Boehner everything he asks for and we default. He's being a dick.

599 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:53:19am

re: #597 researchok

I could never pee on command/ under pressure either!

600 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:54:00am

re: #598 darthstar

Boehner's just saying this so he can point the finger at Obama if he doesn't give Boehner everything he asks for and we default. He's being a dick.

Exactly. This is just damage control from Sir John of Orange.

It's about as sincere as the losers on Jersey Shore.

601 researchok  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:55:02am

re: #599 sattv4u2

I could never pee on command/ under pressure either!

The only conditions under which my brother would pee were if it involved raising dad's blood pressure.

602 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:56:24am

Damn intertoobs.

Anyway. So we finally hear what we wanted to hear from Boehner but we're still complaining? I seriously doubt that Tip O'Neil (of he were still alive) would see it that way. That's not how this game is played. Take it while you can.

603 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:56:51am

re: #587 sattv4u2

HA

Sounds like Mrs Satty
When I drive from home to our place in South Carolina, I can make it in just under 6 hours
One 15 minute stop far gas/pee/coffee

When she's with me, it takes up OVER 8 hours (same route)

During our recent visit to Toronto, we stopped at every EnRoute on the 401. I should get a sign on my car: Diabetic Old Man On Board.

The new EnRoute rest stops are cleaner than you would think is humanly possible. That's because they are Canadian.

604 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:57:17am

The New Mexico woman arrested for twisting off her daughter-in-law's nipple during a drunken brawl last year will avoid jail in a plea deal approved by her injured kin

[Link: www.thesmokinggun.com...]

Bids for the nipple on ER-BAY start at ,,,,,,,
//

605 darthstar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:57:46am

re: #600 Lidane

Exactly. This is just damage control from Sir John of Orange.

It's about as sincere as the losers on Jersey Shore.

And it's a little late in the game to start trying to point all the risk at the White House...The Republicans get their concessions, then quit, then start negotiating again based on the last agreed concessions as a starting point.

It'd be like if you had 100 dollars and I said "Give me 20 and we can talk about how to divide up the other 80" and you say "yes" so I say "Give me 20 and we can talk about how to divide up the other 60." Lather, rinse, repeat. Once I've got all 100, we can talk about how you can't be trusted with money as it just slips through your fingers.

606 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:59:03am

re: #603 Alouette

During our recent visit to Toronto, we stopped at every EnRoute on the 401. I should get a sign on my car: Diabetic Old Man On Board.

The new EnRoute rest stops are cleaner than you would think is humanly possible. That's because they are Canadian.


Oh yes, thats the other thing

Wifey could be bursting at the (bladder) seams but we'll have to pull into 4-5 rest stops/ quicky marts so she can find one clean enough to ,, well,, release!

607 darthstar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:59:20am

okay..time to go to work.

608 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 8:59:26am

re: #600 Lidane

Exactly. This is just damage control from Sir John of Orange.

It's about as sincere as the losers on Jersey Shore.

Then why did Obama invite Boehner for the "secret" meeting. Then later playing a round of gold with Boehner? All of this was arranged by the Obama White House. Obama wanted this and he got it.

609 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:00:03am

re: #608 Gus 802

Then why did Obama invite Boehner for the "secret" meeting. Then later playing a round of gold GOLF with Boehner? All of this was arranged by the Obama White House. Obama wanted this and he got it.

Oops.

610 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:00:32am

re: #608 Gus 802

Then later playing a round of gold with Boehner?

Gotta play by the opposition's standards.

611 William of Orange  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:00:39am

Did I read that correct? Fight stealth Sharia???

This Islamic fanatics would drool over such a power to control the lives of Johnny and Jane Average!@

612 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:01:26am

re: #605 darthstar

It'd be like if you had 100 dollars and I said "Give me 20 and we can talk about how to divide up the other 80" and you say "yes" so I say "Give me 20 and we can talk about how to divide up the other 60." Lather, rinse, repeat. Once I've got all 100, we can talk about how you can't be trusted with money as it just slips through your fingers.

Right. That's why I don't buy it. It's bullshit.

Boehner is saying this to point out to the mouth-breathers in his party that a default is a BAD thing. That much is true. But I still don't trust him. It's too little too late to start talking about the risk of default when his party has been beating the Default Is No Big Deal drum for months.

613 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:02:29am

re: #610 laZardo

Gotta play by the opposition's standards.

Yes. And Boehner holds the upper hand in the House. That's the reality that Obama has to work with. It's a matter of compromising.

Image: x999.jpg

614 sattv4u2  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:04:17am

re: #613 Gus 802

Yes. And Boehner holds the upper hand in the House. That's the reality that Obama has to work with. It's a matter of compromising.

Image: x999.jpg

At least they're holding their own putters, and not TWITTERing them!

615 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:05:06am

This is super creepy:

UK human trafficker controlled victims with witchcraft.

616 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:09:58am

re: #615 Alouette

This is super creepy:

UK human trafficker controlled victims with witchcraft.

I blame the Juju's.:)

617 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:10:38am

re: #616 Cannadian Club Akbar

I blame the Juju's.:)

[Link: www.instantrimshot.com...]

618 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:11:16am

Morning all!

How is the day going?

619 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:12:51am

Boehner: Failing To Raise The Debt Limit Puts Economy In Great Jeopardy

In a political role reversal Friday, House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) warned that Congress risks severely harming the economy and exacerbating the unemployment crisis if it fails to raise the national debt ceiling in the next four weeks.

"While some think we can go past August 2nd, I frankly think it puts us in an awful lot of jeopardy, and puts our economy in jeopardy, risking even more jobs," Boehner told reporters at his weekly Capitol briefing.

His statement comes as a quiet rebuke to members of his own party who've argued that smacking against the ceiling -- or even defaulting briefly on the debt -- poses no great risk to the economy.

Continues.

There you have it. The Speaker of the House is on board with raising the debt limit putting him in the same camp as Geithner, Bernanke, Obama, and others.

620 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:13:46am

re: #608 Gus 802

Until Boehner clearly states "... so we should accept a package that includes raised taxes" or "... so we'll drop the huge amounts of social conservative crap we're trying to push through under the guise of the budget", I'm not convinced it's actually useful. It's good to hear, but what does it actually mean?

621 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:15:39am

re: #620 Obdicut

It's good to hear, but what does it actually mean?

It doesn't mean anything. They are all just blowing smoke or air to fan the flames. Trying to distract the populace while they work the back room deals.

622 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:16:15am

re: #620 Obdicut

Until Boehner clearly states "... so we should accept a package that includes raised taxes" or "... so we'll drop the huge amounts of social conservative crap we're trying to push through under the guise of the budget", I'm not convinced it's actually useful. It's good to hear, but what does it actually mean?

They have until August 2nd. People need to stop having a stroke over this. Frankly, some of this reminds me of the opposite end during the initial days of the Obama administration in 2009. Give it time and we'll see what they can work out.

623 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:17:37am

re: #621 ggt

It doesn't mean anything. They are all just blowing smoke or air to fan the flames. Trying to distract the populace while they work the back room deals.

It means a lot. This is the Speaker of the House. But I agree with the back room dealing angle.

624 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:17:59am

re: #615 Alouette

This is super creepy:

UK human trafficker controlled victims with witchcraft.

I think I'll start scream NOWWWWWWW!

If there is a hell . . . .

625 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:18:16am

re: #485 Gus 802

Right. Especially food prices. Which went up recently as I have noticed. There was a lag between those and energy prices after the spike in oil prices. Things are still very unstable in the Middle East and North Africa so those prices may spike again. Typically we expect the summer months to carry us into fall and winter. It's been rather lukewarm thus far.

I shop at a Japanese grocery here, probably twice a month. Didn't go for a couple months, and went a couple weeks ago. It was as if they just took everything in the store and tacked a dollar onto the price. Pretty unreal.

I'm just glad gas prices are down from $4.69/gal to $3.99. These days, every cent counts. :/

626 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:19:23am

re: #623 Gus 802

It means a lot. This is the Speaker of the House. But I agree with the back room dealing angle.

It's a signal to the mouth breathers that a default isn't going to happen, but it doesn't mean much if the GOP is still going to try and ram through all their tax breaks for the super rich at the expense of everyone else and if they still try to work in all the socon garbage.

627 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:20:13am

In some ways it might be good if gas price stay high. It would force alternative energy technologies to come to the forefront.

My checking account doesn't agree . . .

628 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:20:16am

re: #622 Gus 802

They have until August 2nd. People need to stop having a stroke over this. Frankly, some of this reminds me of the opposite end during the initial days of the Obama administration in 2009. Give it time and we'll see what they can work out.

I'm not sure on what grounds you see this as similar to the initial days of the Obama administration.

The GOP in Minnesota really did just allow government to come to a hault there in a similar fight. The GOP really does have a ton of members who are either saying a default doesn't matter, or actively wanting a default. Sure, they use it as a negotiating position-- as revealed when some of them talked about how they'd accept a rise if it meant getting gays out of the military again and other socially conservative crap-- but that's exactly what's problematic about this; what they're going to negotiate for, what they want, is terrible crap.

So I agree with you, in the end-- I don't think there will be a default. I think the GOP is going to use the threat of default to negotiate a lot of bad crap that will hurt us in the long run and in the short term, and that Obama will sign it rather than let us default.

I'm not sure how that's not a realistic thing to worry about.

629 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:21:02am

re: #626 Lidane

It's a signal to the mouth breathers that a default isn't going to happen, but it doesn't mean much if the GOP is still going to try and ram through all their tax breaks for the super rich at the expense of everyone else and if they still try to work in all the socon garbage.

OK. I can agree with that. I'm just trying to be optimistic.

630 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:25:31am

re: #627 ggt

In some ways it might be good if gas price stay high. It would force alternative energy technologies to come to the forefront.

My checking account doesn't agree . . .

This is why I switched from my wife's beautiful Dodge Dakota (4.7L V8, 18.5 mpg) to a rustbucket '84 Volkswagen (1.6L inline-4 diesel, ~50 mpg).

631 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:27:18am

re: #615 Alouette

This is super creepy:

UK human trafficker controlled victims with witchcraft.

I don't know what pisses me off more.

THe crime itself or that the headline gives credence to witchcraft. It should have said

torture and brainwashing.
632 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:27:47am

re: #627 ggt

In some ways it might be good if gas price stay high. It would force alternative energy technologies to come to the forefront.

My checking account doesn't agree . . .

Invest in a Raleigh 3 spd. :)

633 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:28:31am

re: #632 Gus 802

Invest in a Raleigh 3 spd. :)

Nah, just drive less.

Which is an option, luckily, for me.

Also, Grandma buys a tank everyonce in a while.

634 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:28:58am

re: #633 ggt

Nah, just drive less.

Which is an option, luckily, for me.

Also, Grandma buys a tank everyonce in a while.

Yeah, must be nice. At 80 mi/day, I wish I could make the drive less often.

635 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:30:21am

re: #634 thedopefishlives

Yeah, must be nice. At 80 mi/day, I wish I could make the drive less often.

I know people who are spending $1K month on gas right now.

It does suck. And the snobby money types wonder why the rank n' file have so much credit card debt . . . .

636 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:33:45am

re: #635 ggt

I know people who are spending $1K month on gas right now.

It does suck. And the snobby money types wonder why the rank n' file have so much credit card debt . . .

Yeah, before I got ahold of the Volkswagen, I was up to $600/month on fuel. That will be re-evaluated depending on if this car performs as advertised.

637 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:33:57am

re: #630 thedopefishlives

This is why I switched from my wife's beautiful Dodge Dakota (4.7L V8, 18.5 mpg) to a rustbucket '84 Volkswagen (1.6L inline-4 diesel, ~50 mpg).

I think my next car is going to be a Prius-type. I just have to have something comfortable for my back AND big enough to hold a dog crate or two. I don't have a car payment right now, so it will be a long time before I buy something new/used.

I have a couple of friends with diesel cars and they love them. I can't ride in the little VW's for long. My back can't hack it.

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:34:04am

re: #320 ggt

Do you really think it is so far fetched that a 19th century Jeffrey Dahmer would take one of his slaves (purchased, already owned, inherited, whatever) and put him in a cage in his basement or root cellar of some outbuilding, torture and rape him/her for years, until that slave died? Then start all over again when the "urge" overcame him?

If only the other slaves knew, he would be able to get his jollies scott free.

This is starting to feel like the start of a historical thriller...I have no idea who would be the hero...but I'd point out here that some of the secretiveness of the modern psycho is because if caught he will be stopped.

Raping and torturing your slaves wasn't illegal. It could be done without tomfoolery with root cellars.

639 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:37:40am

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

This is starting to feel like the start of a historical thriller...I have no idea who would be the hero...but I'd point out here that some of the secretiveness of the modern psycho is because if caught he will be stopped.

Raping and torturing your slaves wasn't illegal. It could be done without tomfoolery with root cellars.

I think this topic started because I was wondering what the crime stats would show between now and a couple of hundred years ago if compared.

I'm not sure they'd be all that different. We've changed the definition of crime (in our minds anyway) over the years.

Maybe I've just been reading too much about Tiberius and Caligula?

Psychos, I think, had more opportunity before. Women, children and slaves didn't count. Higher echelon white men weren't suspect.

640 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:38:58am

re: #637 ggt

I think my next car is going to be a Prius-type. I just have to have something comfortable for my back AND big enough to hold a dog crate or two. I don't have a car payment right now, so it will be a long time before I buy something new/used.

I have a couple of friends with diesel cars and they love them. I can't ride in the little VW's for long. My back can't hack it.

I'm incredibly nervous with small cars, after suffering an accident that tore my full-size Chevy 1/2 ton pickup in half. I know I need the fuel mileage, but I feel so vulnerable and exposed in anything small.

641 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:39:08am

re: #631 ggt

I don't know what pisses me off more.

THe crime itself or that the headline gives credence to witchcraft. It should have said

More accurate: UK human trafficker controlled victims with threats of witchcraft.

642 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:41:10am

re: #641 Alouette

More accurate: UK human trafficker controlled victims with threats of witchcraft.

Yeah, but it still gives the impression that there is such a thing as "witchcraft". There isn't. There is the power-of-suggestion, self-fulfilling prophecy, placebo effect, torture and brainwashing.

643 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:41:36am

re: #640 thedopefishlives

I'm incredibly nervous with small cars, after suffering an accident that tore my full-size Chevy 1/2 ton pickup in half. I know I need the fuel mileage, but I feel so vulnerable and exposed in anything small.

Yeah, you'd probably be mulched in an accident of that magnitude.

/... what?

644 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:42:54am

re: #639 ggt

I would also think that after studying case after case of psychos, law enforcement can understand their behavior better as opposed to the past. (not trying to be captain obvious here) And unlike the past, all people matter.

645 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:43:19am

Ugh. Damn wireless.

646 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:43:38am

re: #640 thedopefishlives

I'm incredibly nervous with small cars, after suffering an accident that tore my full-size Chevy 1/2 ton pickup in half. I know I need the fuel mileage, but I feel so vulnerable and exposed in anything small.

I see people tooling around in things that literally look like "pregnant rollerskates" and fear for them. And those Mini Coopers look like toys. . .

There is are reason American's like their vans, trucks and SUV's.

647 simoom  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:43:48am

Another 'own goal' for Minnesota "deficit hawks".

[Link: money.cnn.com...]

Fitch Ratings downgraded Minnesota's debt ratings in the wake of a government shutdown stemming from a budget dispute.

Fitch knocked the state off its triple-A rating pedestal because of its "difficulties in reaching consensus" on its budget gap for the fiscal year that began July 1. Fitch also cited the "increasingly contentious budgeting environment in the state in recent years."

A lower debt rating hurts Minnesota because the increased risk means it will need to pay higher interest rates to investors.

A taste of things to come?

648 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:44:07am

re: #640 thedopefishlives

I'm incredibly nervous with small cars, after suffering an accident that tore my full-size Chevy 1/2 ton pickup in half. I know I need the fuel mileage, but I feel so vulnerable and exposed in anything small.

Little tiny fart cars SUCK in the winter.

649 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:45:33am

re: #646 ggt

I see people tooling around in things that literally look like "pregnant rollerskates" and fear for them. And those Mini Coopers look like toys. . .

There is are reason American's like their vans, trucks and SUV's.

My mom calls them "rolling deathtraps". I know people that swear by Smart cars, but the only swearing I do is at them. And I swear I'll certainly never get in one. (I wouldn't fit, for one thing, being 6' 2".)

650 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:45:53am

re: #636 thedopefishlives

Yeah, before I got ahold of the Volkswagen, I was up to $600/month on fuel. That will be re-evaluated depending on if this car performs as advertised.

I'm at around $600/month now because of the shit mileage my mom's Caddy gets (16-18 mpg) and the fact that I have a commute to work that's 30 miles each way. OTOH, I don't have a car payment, so at least there's that.

I'll be so happy once I finish school and get a full-time salary again. I'm planning on finding something that gets really efficient gas mileage for a decent price. Maybe a VW, or some sort of hybrid.

651 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:45:56am

re: #648 Alouette

Little tiny fart cars SUCK in the winter.

I had a Dodge Omni (years and years ago) and a Suburu Forester that were kick-ass in the winter. The Forester was better than my Jeep in the ice.

652 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:45:59am

re: #637 ggt

I think my next car is going to be a Prius-type. I just have to have something comfortable for my back AND big enough to hold a dog crate or two. I don't have a car payment right now, so it will be a long time before I buy something new/used.

I have a couple of friends with diesel cars and they love them. I can't ride in the little VW's for long. My back can't hack it.

You can always get some nice aftermarket seats.

653 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:46:00am

I spent $47 on a tank of fuel this morning.

654 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:46:38am

re: #649 thedopefishlives

My mom calls them "rolling deathtraps". I know people that swear by Smart cars, but the only swearing I do is at them. And I swear I'll certainly never get in one. (I wouldn't fit, for one thing, being 6' 2".)

Youtube Video
655 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:46:55am

re: #653 Alouette

I spent $47 on a tank of fuel this morning.

$65 last week for the Van. I can stretch it out to 10 days if I don't drive Grandma around too much.

656 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:47:08am

re: #654 Cannadian Club Akbar

Oh... Oh God. Make me unsee it.

657 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:47:17am

re: #649 thedopefishlives

My mom calls them "rolling deathtraps". I know people that swear by Smart cars, but the only swearing I do is at them. And I swear I'll certainly never get in one. (I wouldn't fit, for one thing, being 6' 2".)

I once saw a Smart car with a flame paint job. I laughed. It reminded me of the Yugo I once saw with racing stripes and mag wheels.

658 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:47:56am

re: #657 Lidane

I once saw a Smart car with a flame paint job. I laughed. It reminded me of the Yugo I once saw with racing stripes and mag wheels.

One of the friends who is a Smart car fanatic was talking to me once about how he found a turbocharger kit for it. I just kinda boggled at him.

659 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:48:20am

re: #658 thedopefishlives

One of the friends who is a Smart car fanatic was talking to me once about how he found a turbocharger kit for it. I just kinda boggled at him.

Did you tell him the frame would fall apart at those speeds?

660 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:49:02am

re: #516 Alouette

Why doesn't Assad just import the Gaza flotilla/flytilla as his own personal pro-regime demonstrators now that they have nothing to do?

Any word on the flytilla's progress?

661 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:49:05am

re: #654 Cannadian Club Akbar

[Video]

I'd actually have a chance at surviving Manila traffic in that. :D

662 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:49:07am

all right, I have to start my day.

Have a great one all!

663 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:49:44am

Smart Car crash test.

Youtube Video
664 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:49:48am

re: #660 SanFranciscoZionist

Any word on the flytilla's progress?

If Paris was occupied by Israel then maybe they wouldn't be so nasty toward 'Murican tourists.

/ ;P

665 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:50:16am

re: #661 laZardo

I'd actually have a chance at surviving Manila traffic in that. :D

My college roommate was a Colombian missionary kid. He always talked about the one rule in Colombian driving: Whoever has the biggest car has the right of way. Driving an American conversion van, his family usually got their way.

666 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:52:23am

Volvo V60 Plug-In Hybrid

Check your bank account first. /

667 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:53:07am

re: #658 thedopefishlives

One of the friends who is a Smart car fanatic was talking to me once about how he found a turbocharger kit for it. I just kinda boggled at him.

LOL forever. A Smart car would fall apart with one of those.

They're not bad cars if all you do is drive in the city. One of my mom's cousins bought one to get around town just because he and his wife are retired and their son is married with a family of his own. They didn't need anything more than a Smart to visit friends, run errands, and buy the groceries, but they still have their Town Car for the drive out of town to see their son.

668 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:53:59am

re: #665 thedopefishlives

My college roommate was a Colombian missionary kid. He always talked about the one rule in Colombian driving: Whoever has the biggest car has the right of way. Driving an American conversion van, his family usually got their way.

I'm surprised how much things have changed there...

Youtube Video
669 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:57:50am

Your daily dose of racism from fox news readers....
Ape With AK-47 Acts Like Rambo

Give the President a gun and this is what happens !!!

Da mn, how did FOX get Obama to pose for this picture?

now that's a coincidence... we also have the same thing occuring in our White House with the occupant trying to act like a despot.

That's right...give a gun to a chimp. But if somebody gets hurt, you don't blame the gun.

Same logic holds true for America and it's own Urban Serenghetis. Here, you let chimps steal guns, but when somebody gets hurt, don't blame the guns.
...etc

670 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:58:04am

re: #660 SanFranciscoZionist

Any word on the flytilla's progress?

FAIL.

These turds are so dumb they don't realize that there is no "Right of International Travel." A country decides you are persona non grata, sucks to be you, can't go there. I hope the airlines refuse to refund their tickets.

671 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 9:59:37am

re: #639 ggt

I think this topic started because I was wondering what the crime stats would show between now and a couple of hundred years ago if compared.

I'm not sure they'd be all that different. We've changed the definition of crime (in our minds anyway) over the years.

Maybe I've just been reading too much about Tiberius and Caligula?

Psychos, I think, had more opportunity before. Women, children and slaves didn't count. Higher echelon white men weren't suspect.

Well, psychos of a certain social class, probably, yes.

Comparing crime rates from era to era, I agree, is extremely difficult. Things that are illegal, vs. not illegal, things that are death penalty cases vs. not...

672 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:00:09am

re: #646 ggt

The Minis, Smart (I call 'em dumb) cars and other of that sort lack the kind of carrying space that most folks need especially if they've got kids. They are perfectly fine as a commuter car, but you would need a second car to haul your stuff, and what's environmentally responsible about needing 2 cars?

Also, the feds are in the process of changing the car stickers to reflect gallons per mile driven, rather than mpg and showing how much more or less you would save against the average car for your car class. Those are all well and good, but another stat to consider is gallons per mile driven per person, in which case the larger cars can compete okay against the fuel sippers if only the driver is in them on a regular basis (and it's actually a stat used to show how efficient mass transit is over passenger cars).

674 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:04:17am

re: #670 Alouette

FAIL.

These turds are so dumb they don't realize that there is no "Right of International Travel." A country decides you are persona non grata, sucks to be you, can't go there. I hope the airlines refuse to refund their tickets.

Damn. One of my Israeli online buddies was planning a trip with friends to 'so-called Ben-Gurion Airport' to point and laugh when these guys got tackled by security. (She's an observant lady rapper, so they might have gotten an improv earful.)

('So-called Ben-Gurion Airport' is what Paul Larudee calls it.)

675 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:04:42am

re: #666 Gus 802

Volvo V60 Plug-In Hybrid

Check your bank account first. /

I have a late-90s V70. 3rd Volvo (1st two totaled in accidents that were not my fault.) Hopefully, an S60 will be my fourth.

If my luck holds. :/

676 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:09:49am

re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, psychos of a certain social class, probably, yes.

Comparing crime rates from era to era, I agree, is extremely difficult. Things that are illegal, vs. not illegal, things that are death penalty cases vs. not...

They used to hang 12 year old boys in London for stealing.

677 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:09:50am

re: #674 SanFranciscoZionist

('So-called Ben-Gurion Airport' is what Paul Larudee calls it.)

Yasser Arafat Airport is (was?) already taken.

678 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:10:01am

re: #675 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I have a late-90s V70. 3rd Volvo (1st two totaled in accidents that were not my fault.) Hopefully, an S60 will be my fourth.

If my luck holds. :/

That V60 hybrid diesel getting 124 MPG is pretty amazing. Combined with electric and a full tank of gas it has a range of about 745 miles. It'll be pricey at first of course. No price yet but they said it will be obviously higher than the standard V60. Higher price but very low fuel costs (save electricity). A lot of folks will probably have to upgrade their home electrical system. Diesel alone is very efficient but it remains to become popular in the USA.

679 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:10:46am

re: #676 Obdicut

They used to hang 12 year old boys in London for stealing.

"'Ave mercy, your lordship! Was only finkin' t' nab me' supper!"

680 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:11:10am

Image: VW-XL1-02.jpg

681 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:11:42am

re: #674 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn. One of my Israeli online buddies was planning a trip with friends to 'so-called Ben-Gurion Airport' to point and laugh when these guys got tackled by security. (She's an observant lady rapper, so they might have gotten an improv earful.)

('So-called Ben-Gurion Airport' is what Paul Larudee calls it.)

I tried to figure out for a while if he meant it's not really an airport, or Ben-Gurion was not really Ben-Gurion (ie, it should be Gruen Airport), or if it's not really called that.

After reviewing the tape, I've determined that it's number three. It's real, true, ancient and indigenous name is Lod Airport. And don't you forget it.

682 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:11:55am

That's from Sexy Futuristic VW Diesel-Electric Gets 261 MPG

683 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:12:42am

re: #677 laZardo

Yasser Arafat Airport is (was?) already taken.

Yasser Arafat International Airport is closed on Yom Kippur? That sounds like the start of country-western song.

684 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:13:07am

re: #681 SanFranciscoZionist

I tried to figure out for a while if he meant it's not really an airport, or Ben-Gurion was not really Ben-Gurion (ie, it should be Gruen Airport), or if it's not really called that.

After reviewing the tape, I've determined that it's number three. It's real, true, ancient and indigenous name is Lod Airport. And don't you forget it.

Better than calling it Natbag.

/pronounced nutbag

// ... i'm sorry ;_;

685 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:13:22am

re: #670 Alouette

FAIL.

"Flytilla" ... smh.

Until now, I had reserved the "Dumbest Protest, Ever" award for the Flotilla of Letters to Gaza (No really! Nothing but letters on this boat!) and that stupid "Buy-cott" of teabaggers in support of Whole Foods when the CEO came out against healthcare.

Some "activism". Yes, let's all spend money on expensive plane tickets to go and poke at Israel, then pout when we're sent packing back home. /eyeroll

686 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:14:16am

Now I want to go to Yasser Afafish Airport, hijack a plane and demand it takes me to Disney.:)

687 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:15:48am

re: #674 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn. One of my Israeli online buddies was planning a trip with friends to 'so-called Ben-Gurion Airport' to point and laugh when these guys got tackled by security. (She's an observant lady rapper, so they might have gotten an improv earful.)

('So-called Ben-Gurion Airport' is what Paul Larudee calls it.)

Dozens of peacefully peaceful peace activists sent packing for no good reason, cry, snivel, whine.

688 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:16:05am

re: #683 SanFranciscoZionist

Yasser Arafat International Airport is closed on Yom Kippur? That sounds like the start of country-western song.

There must be some sort of logical reason for this, which escapes me at the moment.

689 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:16:42am

re: #686 Cannadian Club Akbar

Now I want to go to Yasser Afafish Airport, hijack a plane and demand it takes me to Disney.:)

Why did so many people want to get to Cuba back in the day?

/

690 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:16:59am

re: #683 SanFranciscoZionist

Yasser Arafat International Airport is closed on Yom Kippur? That sounds like the start of country-western song.

It's closed every other day of the year too.

691 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:17:18am

re: #686 Cannadian Club Akbar

Now I want to go to Yasser Afafish Airport, hijack a plane and demand it takes me to Disney.:)

You'd just be flying in circles.

692 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:17:22am

re: #689 Gus 802

Why did so many people want to get to Cuba back in the day?

/

Good cigars and big booty women.

693 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:17:23am

re: #689 Gus 802

Why did so many people want to get to Cuba back in the day?

/

"The sun is warm, and so is the...comradeship."

694 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:19:11am

re: #691 laZardo

You'd just be flying in circles.

Alas, Farfour the Mouse is no more.

I know I've told this story before, but when I read of Farfour's demise, I was on BART, and I saw this headline, and the first conclusion my mind leapt to--I swear to God--was that Fatah had sent someone to assassinate the guy in the mouse suit. It took me a couple of readings of the first paragraph before it fully registered that the SHOW had killed off the CHARACTER.

695 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:20:23am

re: #694 SanFranciscoZionist

Farfour was killed by da Juice!!!!
/

696 Lidane  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:21:23am

OK. I'm obviously being given a test. The Marketing guru of the game I'm working on put two mock reports in my inbox. He's looking for some marketing research for the company and wants my opinion.

One report breaks gamers down into detailed segments. giving a thorough picture of just who plays games and all their individual habits. The other one tracks overall consumer trends and spending habits in the games industry. The first one is annual. The second one is updated quarterly.

I've got to justify the expense of one of them. I've got a lot of reading and a lot of thought ahead of me.

697 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:24:39am

re: #695 Cannadian Club Akbar

Farfour was killed by da Juice!!!
/

A sinister black Juice who spoke English, IIRC, and wanted the keys to Farfour's grandfather's house in Tel Aviv. Or maybe that was another character. I have lost track of the Tomorrow's Pioneers martyrs.

This truly isn't funny, but it's hilarious.

698 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:25:04am

re: #694 SanFranciscoZionist

Alas, Farfour the Mouse is no more.

I know I've told this story before, but when I read of Farfour's demise, I was on BART, and I saw this headline, and the first conclusion my mind leapt to--I swear to God--was that Fatah had sent someone to assassinate the guy in the mouse suit. It took me a couple of readings of the first paragraph before it fully registered that the SHOW had killed off the CHARACTER.

His grandfather was a human and his brother was a bee (that also got swatted).

...I will never understand the implications. D:

699 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:26:19am

re: #682 Gus 802

That's from Sexy Futuristic VW Diesel-Electric Gets 261 MPG

...OOOH.

[yes, in the Toy Story Alien voice.]

700 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:26:39am

Great. Computer locked up. No doubt it's this crappy Sierra Wireless modem and crappy old AT&T. El junko!

701 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:28:14am

re: #697 SanFranciscoZionist

A sinister black Juice who spoke English, IIRC, and wanted the keys to Farfour's grandfather's house in Tel Aviv. Or maybe that was another character. I have lost track of the Tomorrow's Pioneers martyrs.

This truly isn't funny, but it's hilarious.

Not a house in Tel Aviv. Farfour's grandfather owned the Key to the entire freaking Tel Aviv.

When it looked like this. (where is the lock that goes with that key?)

702 Bear  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:30:17am

I had a Ranger with a diesel engine. 30MPG. Same type Ranger with gas 20 mpg. Understand that gas powered Rangers are not available in Europe, just diesel.

703 Gus  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:31:12am

Bleh. AT&T sucks. Back later.

704 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:31:19am

re: #698 laZardo

His grandfather was a human and his brother was a bee (that also got swatted).

...I will never understand the implications. D:

OK, so it didn't make a lot of sense! The Rechov Sumsum people wouldn't return their calls, and Bashaar had taken some drama classes to fill a hole in his schedule at university.

705 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:31:22am

re: #678 Gus 802

That V60 hybrid diesel getting 124 MPG is pretty amazing. Combined with electric and a full tank of gas it has a range of about 745 miles. It'll be pricey at first of course. No price yet but they said it will be obviously higher than the standard V60. Higher price but very low fuel costs (save electricity). A lot of folks will probably have to upgrade their home electrical system. Diesel alone is very efficient but it remains to become popular in the USA.

Yeah, those electrics really are for homeowners. I wouldn't know where to charge one around here. This would be my dream car, C70 blk/blk convertible.

Image: Volvo1.jpg

Mongo like pretty black Volvos!

706 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:32:59am

re: #701 Alouette

Not a house in Tel Aviv. Farfour's grandfather owned the Key to the entire freaking Tel Aviv.

When it looked like this. (where is the lock that goes with that key?)

The city is there, in all its ancient, gated splendour. The people standing around on the sand simply can't see it, because they do not have indigenous eyes.

//

707 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:34:01am

re: #696 Lidane

OK. I'm obviously being given a test. The Marketing guru of the game I'm working on put two mock reports in my inbox. He's looking for some marketing research for the company and wants my opinion.

One report breaks gamers down into detailed segments. giving a thorough picture of just who plays games and all their individual habits. The other one tracks overall consumer trends and spending habits in the games industry. The first one is annual. The second one is updated quarterly.

I've got to justify the expense of one of them. I've got a lot of reading and a lot of thought ahead of me.

Based on your description, the annual report wins for marketing research. As a marketer you want to know what hooks gamers have to which you can connect your product. How much they spend in your product area is secondary.

708 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:34:35am

re: #704 SanFranciscoZionist

OK, so it didn't make a lot of sense! The Rechov Sumsum people wouldn't return their calls, and Bashaar had taken some drama classes to fill a hole in his schedule at university.

I haven't seen any updates of that show in a long time. Do they still have that demented teddy bear as their mascot? Haven't heard that Teh Juice offed him yet.

709 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:36:07am

re: #707 kirkspencer

Seconded. And trends without strong demographic data don't tell you much that's useful. If spending on casual gaming is way up but you don't know it's coming from traditional gamers starting to spend heavily on casual, it's not much use.

Also, the annual report would have the same trend ability as the semi-annual one, you'd just have to plot the trends yourself, and it'd be once a year rather than sooner. But I assume you want long-term trends.

710 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:36:58am

Zedushka is so happy with the new soup strainer!

711 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:38:16am

re: #708 Alouette

I haven't seen any updates of that show in a long time. Do they still have that demented teddy bear as their mascot? Haven't heard that Teh Juice offed him yet.

To the best of the Wikipedia site's knowledge, Nassur the Bear is still on the show. He debuted in 2009. I don't know if the show is still running, or what's going on with it.

712 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:40:25am

re: #711 SanFranciscoZionist

To the best of the Wikipedia site's knowledge, Nassur the Bear is still on the show. He debuted in 2009. I don't know if the show is still running, or what's going on with it.

If the show hit its 100th episode, Nassur the Bear might be holding out for more money due to syndication.
/

713 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:41:21am

re: #712 Cannadian Club Akbar

If the show hit its 100th episode, Nassur the Bear might be holding out for more money due to syndication.
/

Let's just say that Nassur ain't no Kipi ben Kipod. He doesn't even have a pet goat.

714 laZardo  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:46:25am

headin' to bed. nighty

715 Kragar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:49:28am

Apparently, David Barton has announced that his next "book" will focus on Thomas Jefferson. I can't wait.

716 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:49:43am

Blockbuster isn't just circling the drain, it's accelerating towards it at warp speed.

To summarize: Blockbuster's new service has absolutely no late fees, yet if your DVD is not returned within the 3-day grace period--even if it was dropped in the mail in time, no longer in your possession, entirely in the hands of the postal service, and eventually returned to Blockbuster--consumers will be charged $19.99.

With such deceptive business practices and services, it's clear why Blockbuster's customers are "afraid" of purchasing a monthly subscription from the company.

But that's not even the most disconcerting aspect of the new service. As Blockbuster launches a new service for its by-mail program, Netflix has steadily been moving away from physical discs, recognizing an industry trend. Netflix has launched a $7.99 streaming-only plan

Can't say I'll miss blockbuster.

717 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:52:50am

re: #716 lawhawk

Blockbuster isn't just circling the drain, it's accelerating towards it at warp speed.

Can't say I'll miss blockbuster.

I don't mss Blockbuster at all.

But I do miss Borders, a little.

718 lawhawk  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:53:53am

re: #701 Alouette

Ah, but the Palestinians would have you believe that the rest of the land behind where the camera was taken looked something like this but for those pesky Joooos..

719 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:54:12am

re: #716 lawhawk

Blockbuster isn't just circling the drain, it's accelerating towards it at warp speed.

Can't say I'll miss blockbuster.

Yep. Couldn't make the shift.

Related, I wish I could figure out how to be part of one of the other shifts about to happen. I'm speaking of books. No, not online stores beating brick and mortar, and only tangentially electronic beating print.

I think there's a solid segment available for applying netflix rules to ebooks - both eprint and eaudio. Just not sure how to slice into that as a small businessman.

720 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:54:18am

re: #715 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Apparently, David Barton has announced that his next "book" will focus on Thomas Jefferson. I can't wait.

I bet Jefferson can't wait, either.

721 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:56:05am

re: #715 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Apparently, David Barton has announced that his next "book" will focus on Thomas Jefferson. I can't wait.

A few years back I was visiting churches before picking one. The preacher at one of the rejects said as part of his sermon "I'm a history major and I'm here to tell you Jefferson never said anything about a separation between church and state."

I figure I'll see more lies from Barton.

722 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:56:55am

re: #719 kirkspencer

Yep. Couldn't make the shift.

Related, I wish I could figure out how to be part of one of the other shifts about to happen. I'm speaking of books. No, not online stores beating brick and mortar, and only tangentially electronic beating print.

I think there's a solid segment available for applying netflix rules to ebooks - both eprint and eaudio. Just not sure how to slice into that as a small businessman.

I'm such a dinosaur, I get books from the library. And I have a collection of music CD's that I haven't transferred to MP3, because I still don't have an MP3 player.

723 Kragar  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 10:58:57am

re: #721 kirkspencer

A few years back I was visiting churches before picking one. The preacher at one of the rejects said as part of his sermon "I'm a history major and I'm here to tell you Jefferson never said anything about a separation between church and state."

I figure I'll see more lies from Barton.

No way. We'll just learn about the secret Biblical code in the Constitution and how the Declaration on Independence was inspired by Jesus.

724 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 11:02:53am

re: #651 ggt

I had a Dodge Omni (years and years ago) and a Suburu Forester that were kick-ass in the winter. The Forester was better than my Jeep in the ice.

I have a Forester now and it handles stuff my previous cars couldn't (a Saturn and before that a Mazda 323.) The little front-wheel drive compacts can handle some surfaces heavier cars can't, but vice-versa anything more than 2-3 inches of loose snow are deadly to them on slopes since they don't have the weight to compact it into something that they can get a bit of grip on.

I laos went the Forester to get a higher view and be able to see better since I drove a lot of roads that had dips and folds that traffic could hide in.

725 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 11:09:18am

re: #722 Alouette

I'm such a dinosaur, I get books from the library. And I have a collection of music CD's that I haven't transferred to MP3, because I still don't have an MP3 player.

heh.

Speaking as an unemployed librarian, good for you -- but you might want to worry about your library.

I think - think, not know - that libraries are within a generation of experiencing a major shift. The problem is that the 21-30 patron per capital is significantly lower than total patrons per capita. That's been a recurring problem for several decades, but it's gone into a steep decline over the past decade and a half. Lack of use gradually leads to lack of funding which starts (or in this case accelerates) a vicious cycle.

Sooner or later we'll see a service where you can 'rent' e-books online. That is, you pay a fee and you can temporarily access the e-books. If I had the swing I'd set it up as a ... huh. Sorry, actually had a brainstorm. Open call for two-bit opinions on a tax exempt organization set up this way. Donations and maybe government grants to operate an online 'lending' library. There are some severe legalities I can see needing resolved (library related laws and requirements) but I find it an intriguing possibility.

726 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 11:11:23am

re: #722 Alouette

I'm such a dinosaur, I get books from the library. And I have a collection of music CD's that I haven't transferred to MP3, because I still don't have an MP3 player.

I broke down and bought an Ipod Nano for my trip. So I spent part of last weekend downloading all of my limited CD collection into iTunes in order to get it on the Nano. 4GB of distracting noise for the airline flights! :)

727 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 11:21:34am

re: #725 kirkspencer

It's a very cool idea.

728 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jul 8, 2011 3:48:59pm

re: #719 kirkspencer

Yep. Couldn't make the shift.

Related, I wish I could figure out how to be part of one of the other shifts about to happen. I'm speaking of books. No, not online stores beating brick and mortar, and only tangentially electronic beating print.

I think there's a solid segment available for applying netflix rules to ebooks - both eprint and eaudio. Just not sure how to slice into that as a small businessman.

Here's a site dedicated to it. I was shocked at how far beyond Kindle and Nook it goes:

[Link: goodereader.com...]


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
2 days ago
Views: 89 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 258 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1