According to a new CBS News poll, the American public doesn’t like the way any of our politicians are handling the debt crisis — but they’re especially, overwhelmingly unhappy with the Republican Party: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis.
Seventy-one percent is a hell of a number for the GOP.
1 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:01:57am |
And I disapprove of their leadership, their platform, and their current elected membership.
| 2 |
laZardo Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:02:30am |
And yet they'd still elect a Republican candidate over Obama?
I guess this number is because they think the GOP aren't fighting hard enough.
| 3 |
The Left Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:03:00am |
Heehee. So much for the support for the unnamed Republican in those polls about Obama.
| 4 |
Kronocide Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:04:23am |
Generic Republican will destroy Obama in 2012!
| 5 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:05:03am |
The GOP comes out bout 13% worse than Democrats. This is an important difference, though not an overwhelming one. It does mean that an actual shutdown will affect the GOP's prospects more negatively, that is, they will get more of the blame for it.
It will also give crank libertarians an opportunity to demonstrate their government-free utopia in practice, after which they will be consigned to the troofer/ufo/tinfoil ghetto forever.
| 6 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:05:07am |
re: #3 iceweasel
Heehee. So much for the support for the unnamed Republican in those polls about Obama.
Much of conservative thought is about pinning for the way things used to be in my not very well versed opinion....
Many modern conservatives pine for the day when their party was respectable and produced could elect sane candidates to run for the White House.
| 7 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:05:50am |
re: #4 bigpapa
"Generic Republican" will be all the rage this Halloween.
| 8 |
Kronocide Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:06:01am |
Campaign Slogan for Generic Republican:
Generic 2012: No Specifics!
| 9 |
allegro Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:06:02am |
I was visiting with one of my wingnut neighbors yesterday and she mentioned the debt thing. Right on kneejerk cue I started a rant about the issue in my leftie way before giving her a change to express her view that she already agreed with me! It was very cool.
| 10 |
The Left Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:06:20am |
re: #6 jamesfirecat
Many modern conservatives pine for the day when their party was respectable and produced could elect sane candidates to run for the White House.
So they're pining for the days from decades ago, I guess.
| 11 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:06:39am |
It's a good sign that Americans can get away from the 47:53 split about anything.
| 12 |
allegro Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:07:19am |
re: #9 allegro
I was visiting with one of my wingnut neighbors yesterday and she mentioned the debt thing. Right on kneejerk cue I started a rant about the issue in my leftie way before giving her a
changechance to express her view that she already agreed with me! It was very cool.
| 13 |
The Left Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:08:31am |
re: #7 darthstar
"Generic Republican" will be all the rage this Halloween.
How do you dress as that? Hire a rent boy to carry your costume?
| 14 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:08:54am |
re: #11 Decatur Deb
It's a good sign that Americans can get away from the 47:53 split about anything.
I'm surprised the crazification factor went form 27 to 21 percent...
| 15 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:09:01am |
The Dow is seconding the opinion--down 172 with four hours to go.
| 16 |
KingKenrod Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:09:37am |
The GOP is getting hit from both sides - the Dems obviously don't approve, but the angry GOP base is afraid the GOP is going to cut a deal.
Even half of Republicans, 51%, disapprove of how members of their party in Congress are handling the negotiations. Far fewer Democrats disapprove of how their own party (32%) or President Obama (22%) is handling the talks.
| 17 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:09:52am |
Rumor has it Casey Anthony is headed for Ohio. If that's true, could she be a stealth Republcian presidential candidate? Stay tuned while we investigate this burning question which is being talked about on TV right this second!
| 18 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:10:27am |
re: #6 jamesfirecat
Much of conservative thought is about pinning for the way things used to be in my not very well versed opinion...
Many modern conservatives pine for the day when their party was respectable and produced could elect sane candidates to run for the White House.
Reminds me of a favorite weird "Dear Abby" letter (as chonicled in the Book of Lists.)
Dear Abby;
My husband burns the hairs out of his nose with a lighted match and he says I'm crazy because I voted for Goldwater!
| 19 |
Mocking Jay Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:10:59am |
re: #17 darthstar
Ohio and Iowa aren't interchangable ya know... :P
| 20 |
mikec6666 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:11:03am |
Well, it seems the American public hasn't completely lost its collective mind.
| 21 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:12:48am |
re: #16 KingKenrod
The GOP is getting hit from both sides - the Dems obviously don't approve, but the angry GOP base is afraid the GOP is going to cut a deal.
The 22% of Dems unhappy with the Prez is valuable--a guardrail at the edge of the concession cliff.
| 22 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:13:10am |
re: #2 laZardo
And yet they'd still elect a Republican candidate over Obama?
I guess this number is because they think the GOP aren't fighting hard enough.
That could very well be part of the 71%. Would have to look at the methodology of the poll. But yes, American's are a very fickle bunch and while they may disapprove of the way the GOP is handling the debt crisis they may end up voting GOP come November of 2012. By the time election day does come around this debt crisis will be long forgotten by American's who have very short political memories.
That being said this does point out, in my estimation, that the GOP has grossly miscalculated how the American public would like to see the debt ceiling handled in the public arena. IOW, they've gone too far out of their way to appeal to the Tea Party. That may however work out for individual candidate since yes, that does appeal to a certain constituency, especially with GOP member in the House.
| 23 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:13:35am |
| 24 |
sagehen Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:13:45am |
re: #19 JasonA
Ohio and Iowa aren't interchangable ya know... :P
From where I sit in NYC, they may as well be.
| 25 |
Kronocide Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:14:08am |
I like how people justify the GOP's line in the sand with 'when I owe too much I cut out unnecessary spending, don't spend more than I can pay off.'
As if household financial methods work for the largest economy on the planet.
| 26 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:14:27am |
re: #24 sagehen
From where I sit in NYC, they may as well be.
"There are two places, Manhattan and the other place."
| 27 |
sagehen Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:14:57am |
re: #25 BigPapa
I like how people justify the GOP's line in the sand with 'when I owe too much I cut out unnecessary spending, don't spend more than I can pay off.'
And a lot of those people who cut out spending.... they're in foreclosure, right?
| 29 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:16:34am |
re: #22 Gus 802
That could very well be part of the 71%. Would have to look at the methodology of the poll. But yes, American's are a very fickle bunch and while they may disapprove of the way the GOP is handling the debt crisis they may end up voting GOP come November of 2012. By the time election day does come around this debt crisis will be long forgotten by American's who have very short political memories.
That being said this does point out, in my estimation, that the GOP has grossly miscalculated how the American public would like to see the debt ceiling handled in the public arena. IOW, they've gone too far out of their way to appeal to the Tea Party. That may however work out for individual candidate since yes, that does appeal to a certain constituency, especially with GOP member in the House.
They might be inclined to favor those candidates who aren't tainted by Congressional shenanigans, Romney being the most obvious example.
| 30 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:16:43am |
re: #22 Gus 802
That could very well be part of the 71%. Would have to look at the methodology of the poll. But yes, American's are a very fickle bunch and while they may disapprove of the way the GOP is handling the debt crisis they may end up voting GOP come November of 2012. By the time election day does come around this debt crisis will be long forgotten by American's who have very short political memories.
That being said this does point out, in my estimation, that the GOP has grossly miscalculated how the American public would like to see the debt ceiling handled in the public arena. IOW, they've gone too far out of their way to appeal to the Tea Party. That may however work out for individual candidate since yes, that does appeal to a certain constituency, especially with GOP member in the House.
I always find strength in the fact that Obama is leading all the actual GOP candidates....
[Link: www.voanews.com...]
To me that says that while people may like the idea of a "conservative" in power either because a change is as good as a holiday or because they think conservatives know economics better.... once they see the people who the GOP is actually trying to nominate, the American people have second thoughts.
| 31 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:17:36am |
re: #27 sagehen
And a lot of those people who cut out spending... they're in foreclosure, right?
Exactly...but their gamble is, six years from now, a Republican will take over, and a year after that their credit will be healthy enough for them to try buying another house.
| 32 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:18:16am |
re: #29 Shiplord Kirel
They might be inclined to favor those candidates who aren't tainted by Congressional shenanigans, Romney being the most obvious example.
Romney is their only hope. As for the rest, well, there's no sense in me bringing up their shortcomings. Which are long and massive. ;)
| 33 |
Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:18:53am |
Governor Cuomo isn't a fan of President Obama:
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
I think four more years of Obama wouldn't curtail Cuomo's chances at the Presidency.
| 34 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:18:56am |
re: #32 Gus 802
Romney is their only hope. As for the rest, well, there's no sense in me bringing up their shortcomings. Which are long and massive. ;)
But they hate him!
| 35 |
Alexzander Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:19:26am |
Erick son of Erick: The Rise of the Third Party
dun dun dun..........
| 36 |
Iwouldprefernotto Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:19:44am |
How stupid (or hateful) do you have to be to want your own govt. to fail?
| 37 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:20:23am |
re: #34 darthstar
But they hate him!
His Intrade position is falling rapidly in relation to (undeclared) Perry.
| 38 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:20:43am |
re: #36 Iwouldprefernotto
How stupid (or hateful) do you have to be to want your own govt. to fail?
Ask Rush.
| 39 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:20:46am |
re: #34 darthstar
But they hate him!
Many on the base of the GOP do dislike him. Again we have the Mormon effect. But, he's still leading in GOP polling the last time I looked. Giuliani might throw in his hat but I don't think the base will go for him.
| 40 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:21:25am |
re: #35 Alexzander
Erick son of Erick: The Rise of the Third Party
dun dun dun...
Ericksion is such an idiot douchebag. Is CNN still paying him to come on and make them look as analytical as Fox?
| 41 |
S'latch Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:21:55am |
Yes, but a certain percentage of the Republican disapproval is actually from Tea Party activists who wanted the Republicans in Congress to declare secession from the union, or charge the President with treason, or something.
| 42 |
recusancy Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:21:58am |
re: #33 Shropshire_Slasher
Governor Cuomo isn't a fan of President Obama:
[Link: www.nypost.com...]I think four more years of Obama wouldn't curtail Cuomo's chances at the Presidency.
Where does it say Cuomo isn't a fan of Obama in that article from Murdoch's newspaper?
| 43 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:22:37am |
re: #16 KingKenrod
The GOP had an epic spending cut deal in front of them. $4 trillion in cuts. But they said no because of the tax pledge.
Kinda reminds me of the PLO under Arafat. 90% of what you want is not good enough, only 100% will do. Not smart, not negotiating in good faith. Obama would have been excoriated by the left. Burned in effigy at rallies. That's taking a huge risk to re-election, unless you figure he knew the GOP would say no way.
| 45 |
Obdicut Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:23:32am |
re: #42 recusancy
Where does it say Cuomo isn't a fan of Obama in that article from Murdoch's newspaper?
It doesn't. It's speculation that he shouldn't be a fan.
Pretty stupid article.
| 46 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:23:45am |
re: #35 Alexzander
Erick son of Erick: The Rise of the Third Party
dun dun dun...
Beethoven's 5th? /
| 47 |
Alexzander Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:23:47am |
re: #40 darthstar
Ericksion is such an idiot douchebag. Is CNN still paying him to come on and make them look as analytical as Fox?
He really is impressively stupid. I've listened to his radioshow a couple times for giggles and its incredible.
Total man child.
I remember he spent a big part of one episode complaining that his child in kindergarten was learning too much and that they should go slower in school or something to that effect.
| 48 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:24:16am |
re: #44 Shropshire_Slasher
taxes taxes taxes
Huh? Is that just your answer to everything? Did you come down with Tax Tourettes syndrome?
| 50 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:25:25am |
We still need more political parties though. Of course I would align myself with Erickson's idea of a "third party". Won't even bother reading or listening to him.
| 51 |
Bulworth Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:25:28am |
After the teabags get their BBA vote this week, and it fails, the actual deal, which apparently will involve about $1.5+ trillion in cuts AND the stupic three-vote scenario where the GOP will vote in opposition to the debt ceiling increase that they are in fact increasing, will be announced.
Sucks. Hard to believe the teabags won't ultimately be pretty happy with this crap, as well they should be.
| 53 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:26:16am |
re: #50 Gus 802
We still need more political parties though. Of course I would NOT align myself with Erickson's idea of a "third party". Won't even bother reading or listening to him.
Oops.
| 54 |
The Left Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:26:25am |
re: #50 Gus 802
We still need more political parties though. Of course I would align myself with Erickson's idea of a "third party". Won't even bother reading or listening to him.
I accidently downdinged you, but you accidentally said you'd align yourself with Erickson's idea of a third party.
| 55 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:26:54am |
re: #54 iceweasel
I accidently downdinged you, but you accidentally said you'd align yourself with Erickson's idea of a third party.
I know. :) Woops. More coffee! Stat!
| 56 |
Bulworth Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:27:06am |
re: #51 Bulworth
After the teabags get their BBA vote this week, and it fails, the actual deal, which apparently will involve about $1.5+ trillion in cuts AND the
stupicstupid three-vote scenario where the GOP will vote in opposition to the debt ceiling increase that they are in fact increasing, will be announced.Sucks. Hard to believe the teabags won't ultimately be pretty happy with this crap, as well they should be.
Fixed.
| 57 |
recusancy Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:28:33am |
The only silver lining in all this crap is the Republicans days as a major party are numbered, just on demographics alone. If they get blamed for a default their demise may come sooner. Too bad they'd be taking the country down with them.
| 59 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:29:14am |
re: #52 lawhawk
[Link: sparkjam.net...]
Native Nyawker: "Where ya from?"
Me: "Pittsburgh"
NN: "Oh, out West."
| 60 |
jaunte Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:30:25am |
E. J. Dionne, on an "entirely artificial, politician-created crisis":
Every member of Congress who got us into this debt-ceiling fight should be docked six months’ pay. They wasted our time on political posturing instead of solving problems. Better yet, the voters might ponder firing them next year. This could do wonders for national productivity.[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 61 |
kirkspencer Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:30:59am |
re: #18 Shiplord Kirel
Reminds me of a favorite weird "Dear Abby" letter (as chonicled in the Book of Lists.)
Dear Abby;
My husband burns the hairs out of his nose with a lighted match and he says I'm crazy because I voted for Goldwater!
Yes, he's crazy. He should use a candle to get more control.
//
| 62 |
darthstar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:31:55am |
re: #58 Gus 802
2 weeks left. August 2nd is coming fast.
The Republicans still have a couple of tricks left to try and make the President look bad. If they can manage that, they'll pass anything to get the deficit ceiling lift approved.
| 63 |
mr.fusion Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:33:40am |
Ya know one of the best political weapons for the White House and Democrats to come out of this is the way the GOP walked away from the $4 Trillion "Grand Bargain" and the way the White House embraced the idea.
But for the life of me, I can't understand why Harry Reid hasn't brought the Grand Bargain up for a vote in the Senate. Make the GOP vote against a $4 trillion debt reduction package. After complaining about spending and the debt since January 21, 2008 that type of vote could put a fork in the GOP's 2012 chances
| 64 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:34:21am |
re: #62 darthstar
The Republicans still have a couple of tricks left to try and make the President look bad. If they can manage that, they'll pass anything to get the deficit ceiling lift approved.
Sounds about right. More BS from the GOP aisle for the next two weeks. Then at the last minute they'll compromise with the president. They have no choice since the president is still the big cheese.
| 65 |
Alexzander Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:34:37am |
re: #50 Gus 802
We still need more political parties though. Of course I would align myself with Erickson's idea of a "third party". Won't even bother reading or listening to him.
In Canada we have multiple parties and coalition governments, but it doesn't work as well as it should with first past the post voting systems.
Something like a single transferable vote system is in my opinion democratically vastly superior. I hope we see a movement towards that kind of system internationally over the next few decades. Our system right now completely crushes dissenting or fringe views.
| 66 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:35:26am |
re: #64 Gus 802
Sounds about right. More BS from the GOP aisle for the next two weeks. Then at the last minute they'll compromise with the president. They have no choice since the president is still the big cheese.
By then the Dow will be at 900, if we're lucky.
| 67 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:36:06am |
re: #65 Alexzander
In Canada we have multiple parties and coalition governments, but it doesn't work as well as it should with first past the post voting systems.
Something like a single transferable vote system is in my opinion democratically vastly superior. I hope we see a movement towards that kind of system internationally over the next few decades. Our system right now completely crushes dissenting or fringe views.
I like open primaries. Of course that's just for this two party system we have.
| 68 |
garhighway Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:36:20am |
re: #63 mr.fusion
Ya know one of the best political weapons for the White House and Democrats to come out of this is the way the GOP walked away from the $4 Trillion "Grand Bargain" and the way the White House embraced the idea.
But for the life of me, I can't understand why Harry Reid hasn't brought the Grand Bargain up for a vote in the Senate. Make the GOP vote against a $4 trillion debt reduction package. After complaining about spending and the debt since January 21, 2008 that type of vote could put a fork in the GOP's 2012 chances
Certain kinds of laws have to start in the House. Would this be one of them?
| 70 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:38:37am |
What I have always wondered about is why 8-10% of people when presented with a poll, can't possibly choose approve/disapprove, or yes/no, but have to weigh in with "undecided/not sure".
Sack UP! and have an opinion!!!
//
| 71 |
RanchTooth Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:39:05am |
Poll sampling is a bit funny in this poll. You still get an overall disapproval of both parties, but I doubt Obama's/Dem's numbers would be as high and the GOP's numbers would be as low with a realistic population sampling. The electorate does not look like their sampling. Sorry guys.
Party Raw Weighted
Dem 272 33.6% 282 34.8%
GOP 214 26.4% 193 23.8%
Ind 324 40.0% 335 41.4%
Total 810 810
| 72 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:39:06am |
re: #57 recusancy
The only silver lining in all this crap is the Republicans days as a major party are numbered, just on demographics alone. If they get blamed for a default their demise may come sooner. Too bad they'd be taking the country down with them.
Maybe. But Republicans have control of 19 state houses and have 29 out of the 50 governors.
| 73 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:39:15am |
| 75 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:41:09am |
And with regards to changing demographics. Puerto Rico -- which is not officially a state (yet) -- elected a Republican governor: Luis_Fortuño.
| 77 |
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:43:01am |
re: #35 Alexzander
is it the lemon party?
| 79 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:43:33am |
re: #69 iceweasel
Brooklyn?
There's also the Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island (formerly Richmond).
Ever known anyone from Richmond Staten Island?
Neither have I.
| 80 |
makeitstop Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:44:17am |
OT: Fox News at their most mendacious:
Got that? They're victims in this whole thing.
This is how they're going to respond? I guess it might work with their viewership - my Tea Party Patriot sister flat-out told me I was wrong about News International hacking a dead kid's phone last night. I set her straight with links, and she responded by saying that Obama 'probably knew all about it before we did.'
Even when confronted with the facts of the matter, they're compelled to blame Obama for something. Anything.
There is no getting through to those dumbasses. I'm ashamed that my sister is one of them.
| 81 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:45:21am |
re: #78 Decatur Deb
Riño.
Good one. He's a Republican and a member of the New Progressive Party of Puerto Rico. Don't nothing about them. Makes me think of Teddy Roosevelt but they're probably not related?
| 83 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:47:04am |
re: #79 Shiplord Kirel
There's also the Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island (formerly Richmond).
Ever known anyone from
RichmondStaten Island?
Neither have I.
Staten Island? Is that in the Caribbean?
//
| 84 |
lawhawk Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:48:29am |
re: #79 Shiplord Kirel
My wife resembles that remark (but my inlaws were from the Mother Country - aka Brooklyn).
| 85 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:48:44am |
My brother was telling me that Staten Island is "Nobama" country. Didn't really get into it much. I imagine it's like that in Nassau and Suffolk counties as well.
| 86 |
garhighway Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:49:22am |
re: #79 Shiplord Kirel
There's also the Bronx, Queens, and Staten Island (formerly Richmond).
Ever known anyone from
RichmondStaten Island?
Neither have I.
I played golf there Friday of that counts.
| 87 |
Alexzander Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:49:46am |
| 88 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:49:49am |
re: #84 lawhawk
My wife resembles that remark (but my inlaws were from the Mother Country - aka Brooklyn).
"Borough of Churches Pizzerias"
| 90 |
Kronocide Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:50:02am |
re: #80 makeitstop
Yeah, we were laughing about that yesterday.
See, there's all this hacking, this hacking is bad, we gotta stop this hacking. All this hacking, it's bad. Citigroup, the Pentagon, dead kids, all hacked, we gotta stop this hacking. But this recent hacking of cell phones happened 10 years ago, why is this important? We have debt crisis, why all this hacking talk?
Equivocate, then diminish importance, then paint as irrelevant. It's worked before, might as well try it again.
| 92 |
sagehen Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:53:14am |
re: #80 makeitstop
OT: Fox News at their most mendacious:
[Video]Got that? They're victims in this whole thing.
This is how they're going to respond? I guess it might work with their viewership - my Tea Party Patriot sister flat-out told me I was wrong about News International hacking a dead kid's phone last night. I set her straight with links, and she responded by saying that Obama 'probably knew all about it before we did.'
Even when confronted with the facts of the matter, they're compelled to blame Obama for something. Anything.
There is no getting through to those dumbasses. I'm ashamed that my sister is one of them.
So... something that happened 5 years ago in the UK is Obama's fault? He has control of the space-time continuum?
p.s. -- Milly Dowler's killer was caught two years later, two victims later. It's at least a possibility that he'd have been caught sooner if NotW hadn't interfered with the investigation that way.
Newscorp Int'l will kill your children to get a scoop.
| 94 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:54:30am |
Gay Marriage scarier than War or Nuclear accident
I'm not afraid of the many disasters that are happening simultaneously in our world. I'm not afraid of all the wars that are currently raging on almost every continent on the globe. The potential for nuclear accidents globally doesn't frighten me.
What terrifies me are good men and women saying and doing nothing when politicians we voted into office are making moral laws that contradict everything a Holy God stands for.
If someone wants to commit a perverted act such as having sex with a person of the same sex, then he or she is a free moral agent, and we cannot stop it. Conversely, when the governments of our land create laws that state perversion is legal, I am legally placed in a position to defend or explain perversion—or break the law (to pervert is to use a thing for some purpose other than what it was created for; God created male for female and female for male). As an ordained minister, will I now have to go against the law and subject myself to punishment for refusing to marry two people of the same sex?
| 95 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:55:42am |
re: #93 laZardo
ftfy
Once upon a time my family lived in Bath Beach. We were FOB and lived in a couple of places in Brooklyn. Mostly I remembered Bath Beach. My dad had two jobs and we could even afford to go to St. Finbars Catholic School. We were a family of 5. Can't do that anymore. At least without living like livestock.
| 96 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:56:02am |
re: #91 Gus 802
News Corpse stock ticker...
14.88
-0.77 (-4.89%)
With the DOW down overall today, hard to tell exactly how much of that is fallout and how much is just "a" stock taking the same hit many others are
Bank of America Corp (BAC.N) fell 4.5 percent to $9.55, and U.S.-listed shares of Barclays Plc (BCS.N) dropped 8.2 percent to $13.32. Both hit 52-week lows
| 97 |
sagehen Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:56:39am |
re: #84 lawhawk
My wife resembles that remark (but my inlaws were from the Mother Country - aka Brooklyn).
I grew up in an LA suburb, we used to call Brooklyn "the old country" (with the proper deep yiddish accent).
There's a park in Beverly Hills that every year hosts a Brooklyn Reunion -- they'll put up signs with the numbers of various public schools, and the geriatrics can reconnect with their childhood nemeses friends...
| 98 |
recusancy Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:57:02am |
Obama's about to announce his replacement for Elizabeth Warren. It's another great pick, Richard Cordray. [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
| 99 |
Kronocide Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:58:24am |
re: #94 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Mushroom Cloud or Penis? MUSHROOM CLOUD MUSHROOM CLOUD!!!
| 100 |
sagehen Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:58:47am |
re: #98 recusancy
Obama's about to announce his replacement for Elizabeth Warren. It's another great pick, Richard Cordray. [Link: www.whitehouse.gov...]
So Elizabeth Warren can run against Scott Brown for the MA senate seat...
| 101 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:58:58am |
Hagee: U.S. Can't Win Wars Because Of Satan Worship
Hagee claims that God is no longer showing favor to America because of environmentalism (which he labels paganism), religious freedom and Satan worship:
| 102 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:59:03am |
re: #96 sattv4u2
With the DOW down overall today, hard to tell exactly how much of that is fallout and how much is just "a" stock taking the same hit many others are
Bank of America Corp (BAC.N) fell 4.5 percent to $9.55, and U.S.-listed shares of Barclays Plc (BCS.N) dropped 8.2 percent to $13.32. Both hit 52-week lows
Nah. It's the fallout for sure. It's isolated with NWSA. Apple's doing fine:
368.25
+3.33 (0.91%)
| 103 |
recusancy Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:59:24am |
re: #100 sagehen
So Elizabeth Warren can run against Scott Brown for the MA senate seat...
Hopefully.
| 104 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 9:59:27am |
re: #99 BigPapa
Mushroom Cloud or Penis? MUSHROOM CLOUD MUSHROOM CLOUD!!!
I got a mushroom cloud for ya...
| 105 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:00:01am |
re: #84 lawhawk
My wife resembles that remark (but my inlaws were from the Mother Country - aka Brooklyn).
I hate Brooklyn, hate it, HATE IT. I don't understand why my kids have chosen to live there. I wouldn't live there if you gave me a free apartment.
| 106 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:00:04am |
re: #102 Gus 802
Nah. It's the fallout for sure. It's isolated with NWSA. Apple's doing fine:
368.25
+3.33 (0.91%)
Not so sure
the New York Times is down about the same %
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]
| 107 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:00:42am |
re: #102 Gus 802
Nah. It's the fallout for sure. It's isolated with NWSA. Apple's doing fine:
368.25
+3.33 (0.91%)
Isolated as in NWSA is going down on a unique basis here. Isolated was probably a poor word to use.
| 108 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:00:55am |
re: #104 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
I got a mushroom cloud for ya...
Hopefully its not brought to us by a Taepodong rocket...
| 109 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:01:16am |
re: #102 Gus 802
re: #106 sattv4u2
Not so sure
the New York Times is down about the same %
[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]
CBS down 2.21%
| 110 |
Kronocide Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:01:21am |
Ah, the Sublime Contrarian contrarianizes again....
| 111 |
Lidane Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:03:42am |
re: #10 iceweasel
So they're pining for the days from decades ago, I guess.
It's more like they're pining for the media-created 50's utopia that never actually existed. They want Ozzie and Harriet, not realizing it was a TV show.
| 112 |
Lidane Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:05:14am |
re: #101 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
So basically, Hagee agrees with the nutjobs from Westboro. Lovely.
| 113 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:05:55am |
re: #105 Alouette
I hate Brooklyn, hate it, HATE IT. I don't understand why my kids have chosen to live there. I wouldn't live there if you gave me a free apartment.
just to PISS you OFF!!
//
| 114 |
allegro Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:05:58am |
re: #101 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Hagee claims that God is no longer showing favor to America because of environmentalism (which he labels paganism), religious freedom and Satan worship:
I will never get this. If I had a million years I would never get this. Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire? How the hell is this a religious or even partisan issue? And the thinks religious freedom is bad thing? WTF?
| 115 |
laZardo Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:06:04am |
re: #112 Lidane
So basically, Hagee agrees with the nutjobs from Westboro. Lovely.
When threatened, the religious fall on hyperbole.
| 116 |
laZardo Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:06:26am |
re: #114 allegro
I will never get this. If I had a million years I would never get this. Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire? How the hell is this a religious or even partisan issue? And the thinks religious freedom is bad thing? WTF?
Well, that's pretty much how the Revelation plays out before Jesus returns.
| 117 |
makeitstop Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:06:43am |
re: #112 Lidane
So basically, Hagee agrees with the nutjobs from Westboro. Lovely.
And Goodhair is angling for the support of nutjobs like this guy?
The oppo ads will write themselves.
| 118 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:06:48am |
re: #114 allegro
I will never get this. If I had a million years I would never get this. Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire? How the hell is this a religious or even partisan issue? And the thinks religious freedom is bad thing? WTF?
Environmentalism means you think God won't clean up our mess.
| 119 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:07:33am |
re: #117 makeitstop
And Goodhair is angling for the support of nutjobs like this guy?
The oppo ads will write themselves.
I can imagine a whole campaign of "Will you look at this shit?" ads.
| 120 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:08:04am |
re: #118 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Environmentalism means you think God won't clean up our mess.
//God promised he'd never destroy humanity by flood again so I don't get why everyone is so worried about the polar icecaps melting...
| 121 |
Bulworth Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:08:15am |
Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire?
Is this a rhetorical question?
| 122 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:08:45am |
News of the World phone hacking whistleblower found dead
Death of Sean Hoare – who was first named journalist to allege Andy Coulson knew of hacking – not being treated as suspicious
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
| 123 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:09:17am |
re: #114 allegro
I will never get this. If I had a million years I would never get this. Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire? How the hell is this a religious or even partisan issue? And the thinks religious freedom is bad thing? WTF?
Hagee don't give a shit, let the "Left Behind" unsaved ones deal with that crap.
| 124 |
Bulworth Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:09:27am |
And the thinks religious freedom is bad thing? WTF?
Religious freedom is only a good thing in a Muslim country.
//
| 126 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:09:53am |
re: #121 Bulworth
Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire?
So Cleveland it is!!
[Link: www.cleveland.com...]
//
| 127 |
kirkspencer Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:10:16am |
re: #94 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Yeah, always loved these idiots:
As an ordained minister, will I now have to go against the law and subject myself to punishment for refusing to marry two people of the same sex?Hint, preacherman. Permission to act is not Requirement to act. You are permitted to sell dildos. You are not required to do so.
| 128 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:10:24am |
re: #122 Stanley Sea
News of the World phone hacking whistleblower found dead
Death of Sean Hoare – who was first named journalist to allege Andy Coulson knew of hacking – not being treated as suspicious[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
"He fell down an elevator shaft... and landed on some bullets."
/
| 129 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:10:30am |
re: #125 Gus 802
OK. Sat. Keep that up and I'll pull out my slide rulers.
//
I love when you talk kinky!
| 130 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:10:36am |
| 132 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:11:17am |
re: #122 Stanley Sea
News of the World phone hacking whistleblower found dead
Death of Sean Hoare – who was first named journalist to allege Andy Coulson knew of hacking – not being treated as suspicious[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
Oh boy. Crank up the conspiracy theories!
[Runs around screaming.]
//
| 133 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:12:31am |
re: #8 bigpapa
Campaign Slogan for Generic Republican:
Generic 2012: Save more compared to name brand candidate!
I wonder how a "store brand" Republican would do. Jewel supermarkets had a "President's Choice" brand. Maybe it should run. Does anyone know the party affiliation of Trader Joe?
| 134 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:12:41am |
re: #131 laZardo
[Video]
Yeah
My cousin lives there
Went to visit him a few years back and I kept asking when the Cuyahoga was going to ignite
| 135 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:13:19am |
re: #94 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
As an ordained minister, will I now have to go against the law and subject myself to punishment for refusing to marry two people of the same sex?
Yes! Just like all the rabbis who have been thrown into prison for refusing to officiate at the nuptials of Muslims and Wiccans!
(Wait, what?)
| 136 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:14:09am |
re: #132 Gus 802
Oh boy. Crank up the conspiracy theories!
[Runs around screaming.]
//
Ah, it looks like he had a drinking/drug problem.
| 137 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:01am |
re: #80 makeitstop
OT: Fox News at their most mendacious:
Mendacious is too polite a term for Fox News.
| 138 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:07am |
Came across an opinion by Jeffrey Goldberg that some of you might be interested in: Goldberg: Michele Bachmann’s Hazardous Love for Israel. I haven't read it but he's usually pretty good.
| 139 |
Iwouldprefernotto Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:34am |
re: #80 makeitstop
OT: Fox News at their most mendacious:
[Video]Got that? They're victims in this whole thing.
This is how they're going to respond? I guess it might work with their viewership - my Tea Party Patriot sister flat-out told me I was wrong about News International hacking a dead kid's phone last night. I set her straight with links, and she responded by saying that Obama 'probably knew all about it before we did.'
Even when confronted with the facts of the matter, they're compelled to blame Obama for something. Anything.
There is no getting through to those dumbasses. I'm ashamed that my sister is one of them.
Maybe you or her was adopted.
| 140 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:38am |
re: #132 Gus 802
Oh boy. Crank up the conspiracy theories!
[Runs around screaming.]
//
Free Masons got to him.
| 141 |
allegro Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:43am |
re: #137 Charleston Chew
Mendacious is too polite a term for Fox News.
And it's too big of a word for Fox news viewers.
| 142 |
makeitstop Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:52am |
re: #137 Charleston Chew
Mendacious is too polite a term for Fox News.
True, but it's one of my favorite words nowadays.
| 143 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:15:58am |
re: #137 Charleston Chew
Mendacious is too polite a term for Fox News.
Ugh. That word always reminds me of Robert Spencer.
| 144 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:16:20am |
People who are against religious freedom but also think Thomas Jefferson was great confuse me.
| 145 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:16:31am |
re: #136 Stanley Sea
Ah, it looks like he had a drinking/drug problem.
Innocent or not, since the police authority was involved on the wrong side, it's going to be hard to stomp out the rumours. (Honorary Brit. sp.)
| 146 |
laZardo Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:17:04am |
re: #140 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Free Masons got to him.
/because it's 1:16 AM and I need to stay up to finish more of my thesis.
| 147 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:17:50am |
re: #101 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Hagee is a sad case. Easily the greatest fire and brimstone preacher of the present age, he could do great work for his cause if he didn't get caught up in political nutbaggery and supernaturalism.
| 148 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:18:44am |
Congressman, grandson fight off armed intruder
An eight-term congressman from Iowa helped fight off an armed man who invaded his farm house in Decatur County and attacked his daughter on Saturday night, according to a statement from his office.The attack occurred around 10:45 p.m. on Saturday at a farm in Lamoni, where Rep. Leonard Boswell, a 77-year-old Democrat who represents Iowa's third congressional district, was spending the weekend with his wife, daughter and grandson.
| 149 |
laZardo Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:18:46am |
re: #147 Shiplord Kirel
That, unfortunately, is where religion leads especially in a position with power.
| 150 |
Decatur Deb Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:19:42am |
re: #147 Shiplord Kirel
...snip Easily the greatest fire and brimstone preacher of the present age, ...
Like "best of the 9/11 pilots..."
| 151 |
allegro Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:19:49am |
re: #147 Shiplord Kirel
Hagee is a sad case. Easily the greatest fire and brimstone preacher of the present age, he could do great work for his cause if he didn't get caught up in political nutbaggery and supernaturalism.
Isn't that pretty much the definition of religious belief?
| 153 |
makeitstop Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:02am |
re: #139 Iwouldprefernotto
Maybe you or her was adopted.
I really think her church is the problem. She lives out in Lancaster County in PA, with no other family members around, and she attends church three times a week and works for them on the days when she's not attending services.
The agonizing thing is that she's in her sixties and of limited means - yet she was in full roar about how 'Obamacare' was dangerous socialism that would bring the entire country down.
I tried explaining that health care reform would actually make her life easier, but she absolutely refuses to believe it.
My sister, in her sixties, is basically a cult member, and she argues against her own best interest because the head of her cult tells her that Obama is a bad man.
It really makes me sad.
| 154 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:03am |
| 155 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:10am |
re: #147 Shiplord Kirel
Hagee is a sad case. Easily the greatest fire and brimstone preacher of the present age, he could do great work for his cause if he didn't get caught up in political nutbaggery and supernaturalism.
Hagee is about one chainaxe away from just screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!" at this congregation.
| 156 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:12am |
re: #128 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
"He fell down an elevator shaft... and landed on some bullets."
/
Accidental polonium overdose.
| 157 |
Kragar Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:35am |
| 158 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:51am |
If you go to Colonial Williamsburg, you can go into the church that the founding fathers of Virginia were compelled to attend or be fined.
Ironically, they have their names on the pews, proudly. Thomas Jefferson especially.
Of course, I didn't say anything because I was a guest in their church and they were very nice and of course the people letting us all see their church (it's still a functioning Episcopal church) didn't do anything that I should be rude to them, and it was only a continuation of the same laws they had had in Europe, but I still found it very odd.
Here is the pew of the man who counted among his most important acts a law allowing people to choose not to attend this church.
| 159 |
Charleston Chew Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:57am |
re: #118 Kragar (proud to be kafir)
Environmentalism means you think God won't clean up our mess.
If we make the world unlivable for humans, God, or whatever you want to call it, will sweep us up and put us on the curb with the rest of the trash.
| 160 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:21:59am |
re: #154 sattv4u2
I think they should start charging!
"Yeah, we'll put up that concrete block retaining wall for ya' for free."
//
| 161 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:22:46am |
re: #160 Gus 802
"Yeah, we'll put up that concrete block retaining wall for ya' for free."
//
Thats when they give you a rough estimate
A punch to the eye
A knee to the groin
| 162 |
Gus Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:23:10am |
I needed some brick work done on my house so I called the Freemasons.
//
| 163 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:23:13am |
re: #114 allegro
I will never get this. If I had a million years I would never get this. Does he really want to live with poisoned air, water, and soil with garbage piled up everywhere and rivers that catch fire? How the hell is this a religious or even partisan issue? And the thinks religious freedom is bad thing? WTF?
It's easy to understand. He's a devil worshiper! He's only pretending to worship God!
///
Though sometimes I wonder...
| 164 |
allegro Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:23:17am |
re: #146 laZardo
[Video]/because it's 1:16 AM and I need to stay up to finish more of my thesis.
I sure hope you're doing a better job of it that a professional paper I'm trying to edit for journal submission (not one of mine) that is terribly written with confusing data presentation and a conclusion that is so bewildering it seems to be a different study altogether. My eyeballs are crossing and my brain hurts.
| 165 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:23:53am |
re: #162 Gus 802
I needed some brick work done on my house so I called the Freemasons.
//
You get what you (don't) pay for
| 166 |
laZardo Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:24:17am |
re: #164 allegro
I sure hope you're doing a better job of it that a professional paper I'm trying to edit for journal submission (not one of mine) that is terribly written with confusing data presentation and a conclusion that is so bewildering it seems to be a different study altogether. My eyeballs are crossing and my brain hurts.
That must mean you're doing a better job than I am.
/partial
| 168 |
Iwouldprefernotto Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:26:55am |
re: #153 makeitstop
I really think her church is the problem. She lives out in Lancaster County in PA, with no other family members around, and she attends church three times a week and works for them on the days when she's not attending services.
The agonizing thing is that she's in her sixties and of limited means - yet she was in full roar about how 'Obamacare' was dangerous socialism that would bring the entire country down.
I tried explaining that health care reform would actually make her life easier, but she absolutely refuses to believe it.
My sister, in her sixties, is basically a cult member, and she argues against her own best interest because the head of her cult tells her that Obama is a bad man.
It really makes me sad.
The thing that upsets me is that we done't argue issues in this country. The right just says Obama is bad and that's the end of it.
I hated Bush based on his policies (the man seemed decent).
I don't see how you can have a democracy without debate. Name calling doesn't count.
Perhaps if New corp explodes........
| 169 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:30:43am |
re: #162 Gus 802
I needed some brick work done on my house so I called the Freemasons.
//
And did they tell you to call the Feemasons?
| 170 |
Petero1818 Mon, Jul 18, 2011 10:31:14am |
re: #25 BigPapa
I like how people justify the GOP's line in the sand with 'when I owe too much I cut out unnecessary spending, don't spend more than I can pay off.'
As if household financial methods work for the largest economy on the planet.
What they don't realize is they are indirectly making the case for revenue side adjustments. Cutting unnecessary expenses is certainly an important part of the equation. But the key thing in doing so is freeing up your cash flow for paying those bills that MUST get paid so you dont lose your home, your car, your credit rating, whatever it is. Therefore if you cut unnecessary spending, and still risk losing your home because your cash flow can't support your debt load and essential expenses, you have to look at the revenue side as well. That may include savings, emergency funds, or even finding alternate sources of income like another job if you could find one, or your spouse taking on a job. Likewise on a macro level, there are certainly some spending cuts that need to be made. But once you have cut most of the unnecessary items, and your revenue and cash flow is insufficient to meet your needs, you need to tap into the savings, and yes that means the savings of those who own the debt, meaning all Americans. As we know many americans don't have savings, so they can't give. But those that do, regrettably need to kick in.
At the end of the day the debate becomes what is an essential cost, and what is not. Many would argue that the threat from foreign powers or terrorists means that the military is a necessary expense. I would argue that the threat from American citizens with real needs, would be more immediate if you took away the social safety net.
| 171 |
FQ Kafir Mon, Jul 18, 2011 11:47:09am |
The poll oversampled democrats and had an embarrassingly small sample.
That being said, it is not surprising that the sentiment is so negative. The republicans are mishandling this.
| 173 |
FQ Kafir Mon, Jul 18, 2011 12:16:05pm |
re: #172 Obdicut
Party Raw Weighted
Dem 272 33.6% 282 34.8%
GOP 214 26.4% 193 23.8%
Ind 324 40.0% 335 41.4%
810 810
Weak sauce.
| 174 |
kirkspencer Mon, Jul 18, 2011 12:17:12pm |
re: #172 Obdicut
In what way did it oversample Democrats?
It's possible.
The raw was 26.2% Republican, 33.6% Democratic, and the remainder Independent. This was changed to a weight of 24% Republican, 35% Democratic, and the remainder Independent.
Doesn't change the fact that because of Independents, the majority of the public places significantly more blame on Republicans than either Congressional Democrats or Obama.
| 175 |
kirkspencer Mon, Jul 18, 2011 12:22:11pm |
I should be clearer. Independents give Republicans a 73% disapproval, Congressional Dems a 66% disapproval, and Obama a 52% disapproval on the handling of this mess. Since Dems and Reps are effectively mirrors of the other (each giving the other a disapproval of 81/82%) we can see how significant the Independent value is.
| 176 |
kirkspencer Mon, Jul 18, 2011 12:24:10pm |
PIMF
re: #175 kirkspencer
I should be clearer. Independents give Republicans a 73% disapproval, Congressional Dems a 66% disapproval, and Obama a 52% disapproval on the handling of this mess. Since Dems and Reps are effectively mirrors of the other (each giving the other a disapproval of
81/82%82/84%) we can see how significant the Independent value is.
PIMF
| 177 |
Stephen T. Mon, Jul 18, 2011 1:04:27pm |
re: #63 mr.fusion
But for the life of me, I can't understand why Harry Reid hasn't brought the Grand Bargain up for a vote in the Senate. Make the GOP vote against a $4 trillion debt reduction package. After complaining about spending and the debt since January 21, 2008 that type of vote could put a fork in the GOP's 2012 chances
Were Harry Reid to bring it to a vote, the GOP wouldn't sell it as a vote against a $4 trillion debt reduction, but as a vote against a tax increase.
Of course, they are aware that the public is too aware of the debt reduction portion of the bill, which is why they didn't date bring it up for a vote in the first place.
| 178 |
dogg Mon, Jul 18, 2011 5:10:55pm |
Regardless of how and who the question is asked to; We must spend less as a country.
Both parties can not seem to step up,do the right thing and risk reelection.
Except for that small, racist, crazy, flag waving group, some call tea baggers.
God bless them, I hope we wake in time as citizens and think about what our forefathers (and Moms) created, and most importantly what do we want for our children and grandchildren.
| 179 |
Obdicut Mon, Jul 18, 2011 5:19:45pm |
re: #178 dogg
Regardless of how and who the question is asked to; We must spend less as a country.
I don't agree. We need to spend smarter. Not less.
Both parties can not seem to step up,do the right thing and risk reelection.Except for that small, racist, crazy, flag waving group, some call tea baggers.
No, that's the group that doesn't want to accept tax hikes, and doesn't actually care about reducing the deficit, as seen when their champions turned down a 3:1 ration cut-to-tax plan.
God bless them, I hope we wake in time as citizens and think about what our forefathers (and Moms) created, and most importantly what do we want for our children and grandchildren.
Me too. I hope, first and foremost, that the tea party types realize that AGW is real and we need to spend a shit-ton of money to address it.
| 180 |
dogg Mon, Jul 18, 2011 6:50:59pm |
re: #179 Obdicut
"I don't agree. We need to spend smarter. Not less."
Since we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend, it can not be about "smarter" .
The "tea party types" are the canary in the coal mine.
Revenues (taxes) can not solve this.
Only real reductions in spending can.
| 181 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 7:27:15pm |
re: #180 dogg
"I don't agree. We need to spend smarter. Not less."
Since we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend, it can not be about "smarter" .
The "tea party types" are the canary in the coal mine.
Revenues (taxes) can not solve this.
Only real reductions in spending can.
Why can't Revenues solve the problem, if we were making more money we wouldn't be borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend....
That said I do agree with you the "tea party types" are the canary in the coal mine... they're squawking has alerted the rest of America to the fact that the GOP is in the process of being taken over by people who view politics less as a science and more as a religion.
| 182 |
dogg Mon, Jul 18, 2011 7:41:46pm |
re: #181 jamesfirecat
James can you help with the math here?, my friends appear stumped,
| 183 |
dogg Mon, Jul 18, 2011 7:44:55pm |
re: #179 Obdicut
OOPS, I meant Charles, can you help with the math?
| 184 |
Obdicut Mon, Jul 18, 2011 7:47:20pm |
re: #180 dogg
"I don't agree. We need to spend smarter. Not less."
Since we are borrowing 40 cents of every dollar we spend, it can not be about "smarter" .
Sure it can-- if we spend those dollars on things that return more than a dollars worth of value. Like science research.
The "tea party types" are the canary in the coal mine.
The tea party types have no grasp of economics or history.
Revenues (taxes) can not solve this.
Only real reductions in spending can.
Just like the answer to how to build the transamerican railroad was to lower taxes. And how we got to the moon, that was lower taxes too. Rural electrification, that was lower taxes. The state school system, that came from lower taxes.
| 185 |
Obdicut Mon, Jul 18, 2011 7:48:25pm |
re: #182 dogg
James can you help with the math here?, my friends appear stumped,
The math is that if we did raise taxes, we wouldn't be borrowing 40 of ever dollar. We'd borrow less. Even if we didn't cut spending, raising taxes would lower the deficit.
Boy, math is hard.
| 186 |
dogg Mon, Jul 18, 2011 8:12:14pm |
re: #179 Obdicut
Can we cover our current deficit, let alone pay down the debt by raising taxes?
Everyday on average over a year we spend $1.40 for every $1.00 we take in via revenues(taxes & fees) as a country.
Our tax rate currently averages 15% of our GDP
To just stop adding to the deficit(let alone the debt which equals 100% of GDP) how much higher would our taxes have to be?
Trick question - because when you raise tax rates you actually get less total tax revenue because you encourage tax avoidance and discourage economic activity.
Our only hope is to encourage growth of our GDP (more taxpayers) and less federal spending (like state and local governments
are now doing)
| 187 |
jamesfirecat Mon, Jul 18, 2011 8:33:25pm |
re: #186 dogg
Can we cover our current deficit, let alone pay down the debt by raising taxes?
Everyday on average over a year we spend $1.40 for every $1.00 we take in via revenues(taxes & fees) as a country.
Our tax rate currently averages 15% of our GDP
To just stop adding to the deficit(let alone the debt which equals 100% of GDP) how much higher would our taxes have to be?
Trick question - because when you raise tax rates you actually get less total tax revenue because you encourage tax avoidance and discourage economic activity.
Our only hope is to encourage growth of our GDP (more taxpayers) and less federal spending (like state and local governments
are now doing)
"Trick question - because when you raise tax rates you actually get less total tax revenue because you encourage tax avoidance and discourage economic activity.:"
News flash my friend, it is the Laffer Curve, not the Laffer Line...
| 188 |
Obdicut Tue, Jul 19, 2011 3:06:48am |
re: #186 dogg
Can we cover our current deficit, let alone pay down the debt by raising taxes?
Nope. That's not what I said. I said we'd borrow less. The thing you supposedly want to happen.
Trick question - because when you raise tax rates you actually get less total tax revenue because you encourage tax avoidance and discourage economic activity.
You seriously, actually, are one of those people insane enough to believe that lowering taxes always produces more tax revenue, and raising them always reduces it?
Have you ever thought about that for more than five seconds?
You're not having a conversation. You're just reciting talking points.
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