Video: Al Franken Exposes Focus on the Family Spokesman As Liar

Lying for Jesus
Wingnuts • Views: 33,600

One of the characteristics of a cult is that members systematically lie to outsiders, and you can see this behavior in almost all the religious fundamentalist groups with “Family” in their names. Today’s case in point — the testimony in the Senate’s DOMA hearings by Focus on the Family’s Tom Minnery, who blatantly lied about an HHS study on two-parent households.

When religious right spokesmen quote “studies” to support their bigoted anti-gay positions, it’s always a good idea to go to the original source and check what they’re saying; most of the time you’ll discover that: 1) the study comes from another religious right group, or 2) they’re simply lying about it.

And today, Al Franken did exactly that — he checked the original study, and humiliated Minnery on the stand.

Youtube Video

Unfortunately, this kind of debunking won’t stop the misinformation; people like Minnery will just continue lying as if they were never caught.

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519 comments
1 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:43:00am

Senator is well informed, takes time to do required reading ahead of hearing testimony from someone brought forward to present to the Senate?


Well I can draw only one conclusion from this...

Clearly New York needs to be represented by Senators Stewart and Colbert....

2 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:43:09am

I know a lot of people hate him and think he's obnoxious, but this is exactly why I like Al Franken. He's such a total policy wonk that he's going to have all the sources that are going to be cited right at hand in a debate.

I got to see Al speak and do a Q&A on Net Neutrality during SXSW. Good stuff.

3 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:47:04am
Unfortunately, this kind of debunking won’t stop the misinformation; people like Minnery will just continue lying as if they were never caught.

Also see: climate change deniers, the "journalists" of Fox News, right-wing blogosphere, anti-choicers, LGF trolls, etc.

4 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:47:18am

re: #2 Lidane

I know a lot of people hate him and think he's obnoxious, but this is exactly why I like Al Franken. He's such a total policy wonk that he's going to have all the sources that are going to be cited right at hand in a debate.

I got to see Al speak and do a Q&A on Net Neutrality during SXSW. Good stuff.

Franken the comedian, I can't really say I like. But Franken the politician has been a hell of a force since taking office.

5 Winny Spencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:48:55am

I can't stand him to be honest.

6 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:51:27am

I wish we had two dozen more like him. Dem or Rep, we need people who do their homework like him and aren't afraid of facts.

7 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:51:47am

re: #5 Winny Spencer

I can't stand him to be honest.

Tom Minnery, for being a lying, bigoted asshole?

8 Petero1818  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:53:00am

The reality is that there are few in office with a better grasp of facts than Franken. He is consistently on point, logical and thorough. You don't have to agree with him to see that. And he still gets the laughs.

9 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:53:09am

re: #2 Lidane

I know a lot of people hate him and think he's obnoxious, but this is exactly why I like Al Franken. He's such a total policy wonk that he's going to have all the sources that are going to be cited right at hand in a debate.

I got to see Al speak and do a Q&A on Net Neutrality during SXSW. Good stuff.


He is such an AMAZING public servant. He's unafraid of anyone, always defends the truth, and I don't think the man has a dishonest bone in his body. Least I've never seen it and I don't think anyone else has either.

Oh to be in the room while Franken speaks. Would give me chills.

10 William of Orange  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:53:14am

Exposing bribery is so 2011!!

11 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:54:39am

re: #8 Petero1818

The reality is that there are few in office with a better grasp of facts than Franken. He is consistently on point, logical and thorough. You don't have to agree with him to see that. And he still gets the laughs.

The really funny thing is always, ALWAYS I see shades of Stuart Smalley.

I'm good enough and that's.... OK!

12 Firstinla  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:55:45am

Of course Minnery and his ilk interpret anything ever written the same way he interprets the Bible: as it suits him. In his interpretation a "nuclear family" must be a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman in a church sanctioned marriage. Anything and everything else is illegitimate. Why can't he just STFU?

13 allegro  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:56:27am

re: #4 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Franken the comedian, I can't really say I like. But Franken the politician has been a hell of a force since taking office.

I am in total agreement with you here. When I heard he was running for Senate I about rolled my eyes and thought "oh here goes another clown." I have been wonderfully surprised and very, very impressed. I hope he sticks around a long time.

14 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:58:19am

re: #1 jamesfirecat

Senator is well informed, takes time to do required reading ahead of hearing testimony from someone brought forward to present to the Senate?

Well I can draw only one conclusion from this...

Clearly New York needs to be represented by Senators Stewart and Colbert...

No way LOL Or isn't that what they said about Franken before he won?

Colbert I think would probably do well in politics. He's got brains. I'm not saying Jon doesn't, but quite frankly, I'm not a big fan. I think Jon is a first class jerk a lot of the time.

It's funny because when what's-his-name on Fox was accusing him of being so liberal, he clearly didn't watch his show. Stewart isn't always so liberal or at least a defender of the Left. He has taken many shots at the president and his admin.

15 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:59:37am

re: #13 allegro

He takes the job seriously, or at least puts all his acting skill into appearing to take the job seriously. The nice thing is that either stance gets you the same result.

16 allegro  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:59:38am

This is still one of the most amazing things I've ever seen...

Youtube Video
17 Petero1818  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:00:22am

re: #11 marjoriemoon

The really funny thing is always, ALWAYS I see shades of Stuart Smalley.

I'm good enough and that's... OK!

Its hard to get away from that, I agree. But to tell you the truth, those memories are fading for me. And what you are left with is basically a nerdy Jewish guy who won't back down, and backs up his positions with well reasoned arguments, and a dash of sarcastic humor. The truth is I know a lot of guys like that. You can't roll a bowling ball down the aisle of my synagogue without hitting one. But there are not many in public service.

18 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:00:24am

re: #16 allegro

Can't all Minnesotans do that?


/

19 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:00:54am

You guys saw this with Franken, yes?

Youtube Video
20 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:01:06am

Religious right does not care about facts or reasoning, so this will only be useful as entertainment for those of us who have parents who are not 1st cousins to each other.

21 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:01:10am

re: #16 allegro

This is still one of the most amazing things I've ever seen...

[Video]

OH NO!! LOL Sorry about that!

22 William of Orange  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:01:36am

Franken took the word "careerchange" to a whole new level. From comedian to politician. I wonder what his constituents think of him now. As we all know he was chosen with a very narrow margin. Chudders! It could have been a Republican ass on that seat! Minnesota had a narrow escape.

23 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:03:20am

re: #14 marjoriemoon

No way LOL Or isn't that what they said about Franken before he won?

Colbert I think would probably do well in politics. He's got brains. I'm not saying Jon doesn't, but quite frankly, I'm not a big fan. I think Jon is a first class jerk a lot of the time.

It's funny because when what's-his-name on Fox was accusing him of being so liberal, he clearly didn't watch his show. Stewart isn't always so liberal or at least a defender of the Left. He has taken many shots at the president and his admin.

Did you miss his EPIC burn of Obama for suggesting the issue of same sex marriage should be left to the states?

Or when he said Obama talking about immigration reform was just an empty pander?

Or when he held Obama's feet to the fire for refusing to repeal DADT as soon as possible?


That's just the stop off the top of my head.

24 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:03:51am

re: #17 Petero1818

Its hard to get away from that, I agree. But to tell you the truth, those memories are fading for me. And what you are left with is basically a nerdy Jewish guy who won't back down, and backs up his positions with well reasoned arguments, and a dash of sarcastic humor. The truth is I know a lot of guys like that. You can't roll a bowling ball down the aisle of my synagogue without hitting one. But there are not many in public service.

Yea, can you blame them? Do you want every nook and cranny of your life since birth scrutinized and that of every member of your family? Most people couldn't take it. I know I couldn't.

Gotta hand it to those who can!

25 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:04:02am

re: #12 Firstinla

Of course Minnery and his ilk interpret anything ever written the same way he interprets the Bible: as it suits him. In his interpretation a "nuclear family" must be a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman in a church sanctioned marriage. Anything and everything else is illegitimate. Why can't he just STFU?

And that's what will come from this. Franken will have exposed Minnery on stand as a small-minded bigot and walk away with that notch in his belt. But Minnery will tell his flock that his interpretation of a "nuclear family" is the correct one, and that Franken quoting the actual study's definition was an effort to "normalize" gay couples.

26 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:05:15am

re: #25 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And then he'll cite some other study that nobody will actually read, or he won't even have read himself, or is put out by Heritage, et al.

It's sad that it works.

27 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:06:19am

David Barton breaks Kragar's Law again;

Indiana's "Hoosier" nickname derived from itinerant Black preacher Harry Hoosier


Harry Hoosier was one of the great evangelists in the First Great Awakening ... but we never heard of Harry Hoosier. By the way, look at his last name. Does that last name seem familiar to anybody? Anybody recognize the name "Hoosier" anywhere? I wonder how many people who live in Indiana know that they're named for a Black evangelist.



Not quite.

Where is BlackEvangelistHoops? Maybe he can straighten this out.

28 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:06:45am

re: #23 jamesfirecat

Did you miss his EPIC burn of Obama for suggesting the issue of same sex marriage should be left to the states?

Or when he said Obama talking about immigration reform was just an empty pander?

Or when he held Obama's feet to the fire for refusing to repeal DADT as soon as possible?

That's just the stop off the top of my head.

And I am for fail at reading comprehension because I saw that as "He hasn't taken many shots at the president and his admin.".....


DERP!

29 Alexzander  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:06:59am

re: #5 Winny Spencer

I can't stand him to be honest.

I think its lame SpaceJesus and Zathras downvoted you just for offering a personal opinion, without any question for clarification etc. We want people to give their opinions here right?

30 William of Orange  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:07:08am

Who will vote for Lewis Black for president?

I bet the debt ceiling would be dealt with way earlier! Hahaha!

31 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:08:24am

re: #30 William of Orange

Who will vote for Lewis Black for president?

I bet the debt ceiling would be dealt with way earlier! Hahaha!

My theory here is that you it takes more research and hard works to make consistently funny comments about politics than it does to actually take part in the political process...

32 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:09:19am

re: #31 jamesfirecat

You don't have to make as many shitty deals with the devil, though.

33 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:09:23am

re: #23 jamesfirecat

Did you miss his EPIC burn of Obama for suggesting the issue of same sex marriage should be left to the states?

Or when he said Obama talking about immigration reform was just an empty pander?

Or when he held Obama's feet to the fire for refusing to repeal DADT as soon as possible?

That's just the stop off the top of my head.

My hubby LOVES him. I can take him or leave him and sometimes I find myself yelling at the TV.

He was horrible to Hillary and very pro-Obama during the primaries. Obama could do no wrong. Then when Obama won, he went after him. I guess in his mind to be "fair" (or the mind of his writers, who knows). I thought it made him look like an asshole.

34 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:09:56am

re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

David Barton breaks Kragar's Law again;

Indiana's "Hoosier" nickname derived from itinerant Black preacher Harry Hoosier



Not quite.

Where is BlackEvangelistHoops? Maybe he can straighten this out.

Barton is the Bible Belt's official Village Idiot (and therefore a revered authority).

35 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:11:04am

re: #29 Alexzander

I think its lame SpaceJesus and Zathras downvoted you just for offering a personal opinion, without any question for clarification etc. We want people to give their opinions here right?

And that's why I didn't downding her LOL

Winny's cool even if she's C-R-A-Z-Y :)

36 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:11:34am

re: #29 Alexzander

I think its lame SpaceJesus and Zathras downvoted you just for offering a personal opinion, without any question for clarification etc. We want people to give their opinions here right?

Sure, but on the other hand facile, unsupported negativity just isn't that interesting.

37 recusancy  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:11:50am

re: #33 marjoriemoon

My hubby LOVES him. I can take him or leave him and sometimes I find myself yelling at the TV.

He was horrible to Hillary and very pro-Obama during the primaries. Obama could do no wrong. Then when Obama won, he went after him. I guess in his mind to be "fair" (or the mind of his writers, who knows). I thought it made him look like an asshole.

Ahh.. I was just about to ask you why you thought he was a jerk. That answers it. Everyone is always a jerk when they guy after your guy (or gal).

38 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:12:23am

re: #26 Obdicut

And then he'll cite some other study that nobody will actually read, or he won't even have read himself, or is put out by Heritage, et al.

It's sad that it works.

Or he'll do as he did with this study, namely read his interpretation of phrases like "nuclear family" into the results, then tout them as "proof" that homosexual couples are "bad."

After all, God says that heterosexual couples are the only good ones, it says so in the Bible! Er, I can't tell you the exact place, but I can quote a bunch of lines out of context as proof...///

39 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:13:57am

re: #37 recusancy

Ahh.. I was just about to ask you why you thought he was a jerk. That answers it. Everyone is always a jerk when they guy after your guy (or gal).

It isn't so much that, but he gave zero love to Hillary. None. Just one criticism after another and zero criticism to Obama. All of a sudden it changed? Why?

40 blueraven  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:14:37am

re: #29 Alexzander

I think its lame SpaceJesus and Zathras downvoted you just for offering a personal opinion, without any question for clarification etc. We want people to give their opinions here right?

It might have been helpful if Winny had elaborated a bit.

41 recusancy  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:15:28am

re: #39 marjoriemoon

It isn't so much that, but he gave zero love to Hillary. None. Just one criticism after another and zero criticism to Obama. All of a sudden it changed? Why?

He generally doesn't go after the underdog. You can't say it isn't so much that and then, after the comma in the same sentence, say exactly that.

42 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:16:44am

re: #39 marjoriemoon

It isn't so much that, but he gave zero love to Hillary. None. Just one criticism after another and zero criticism to Obama. All of a sudden it changed? Why?

It obviously changed because until Obama was elected he needed to be backed to the hilt so that he could win the election.

After he was elected Obama needed to be mocked every so often when he deserved it to help inspire him to live up to the high targets he set for himself.

I don't think it has to do with Jon being a jerk, just him trying to inspire Obama to be the best he can in two different situations. (As for why Jon backed Obama over Hillary, I've got nothing except that it was Jon's personal preference)

43 recusancy  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:17:11am

re: #29 Alexzander

I think its lame SpaceJesus and Zathras downvoted you just for offering a personal opinion, without any question for clarification etc. We want people to give their opinions here right?

Superficial opinion gets a superficial downding. I'm sure they'll survive the pain of having a red negative number above their comment.

44 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:19:10am

re: #39 marjoriemoon

It isn't so much that, but he gave zero love to Hillary. None. Just one criticism after another and zero criticism to Obama. All of a sudden it changed? Why?

Hillary's been a fantastic SecState, but she ran a lousy campaign. Her outright dismissal of caucus states, attempts to win via super-delegates, and insistence that Obama could not win were incredibly annoying to people who voted for him. The sniper fire story didn't help. She redeemed herself greatly in our eyes by campaigning for him like a pro after losing the primary battle.

45 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:20:31am

re: #41 recusancy

He generally doesn't go after the underdog. You can't say it isn't so much that and then, after the comma in the same sentence, say exactly that.

I only think he criticized Obama because he felt he had to to "appear" fair. Anyway, was my impression because he was never even-handed about it when it mattered - when people were trying to decide between the two candidates. Who cares, really, what he said AFTER he won the election.

46 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:21:54am

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!

47 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:22:03am

re: #44 goddamnedfrank

Hillary's been a fantastic SecState, but she ran a lousy campaign. Her outright dismissal of caucus states, attempts to win via super-delegates, and insistence that Obama could not win were incredibly annoying to people who voted for him. The sniper fire story didn't help. She redeemed herself greatly in our eyes by campaigning for him like a pro after losing the primary battle.

Her campaigning style wasn't overly surprising. Practically from the moment she began her campaign in '07, she was crowned the heir apparent and all opposition was seen as futile by contrast. Folks may not remember, but the Right lit into her with both barrels from the beginning and didn't stop until Obama's star eclipsed hers. They saw him as beatable, as being the "inexperienced new kid," who'd be done in by a far more experienced and "seasoned" old guard Republican candidate.

And the rest, as they say, is history.

48 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:22:27am

re: #42 jamesfirecat

It obviously changed because until Obama was elected he needed to be backed to the hilt so that he could win the election.

After he was elected Obama needed to be mocked every so often when he deserved it to help inspire him to live up to the high targets he set for himself.

I don't think it has to do with Jon being a jerk, just him trying to inspire Obama to be the best he can in two different situations. (As for why Jon backed Obama over Hillary, I've got nothing except that it was Jon's personal preference)

I agree.

Except Jon is a jerk :p

I don't hate him, but I don't particularly like him. I really like Colbert a lot more.

49 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:22:48am

re: #46 Milty

WTF does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? FAIL.

50 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:24:26am

re: #49 Lidane

WTF does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? FAIL.

LOUD NOISES!

51 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:24:37am

Hick preachers like Minnery pretty well had their way with the semi-literate agrarian masses in this country for decades. An entire culture and ethical system was built around it, one based on hypocrisy, veiled privilege, and a de facto alliance with exploitative business interests. That demographic disappeared with the Depression and World War 2. The thumpers have been trying to find new markets to exploit ever since. Long-established hostility toward homosexuals is a fertile field for them. Another strategy is to artificially maintain an ignorant and docile base by promoting superstitions like creationism and faith-healing, with Barton-style revisionism to provide an over-arching rationale.

52 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:25:09am

re: #44 goddamnedfrank

Hillary's been a fantastic SecState, but she ran a lousy campaign. Her outright dismissal of caucus states, attempts to win via super-delegates, and insistence that Obama could not win were incredibly annoying to people who voted for him. The sniper fire story didn't help. She redeemed herself greatly in our eyes by campaigning for him like a pro after losing the primary battle.

You're REALLY not going to like what I have to say, but she should have won Florida. That victory was snatched from her when the fucking Republican Florida legislature said she couldn't campaign down here and then shit-for-brains Howard Dean wouldn't let her votes be counted. That was a gigantic fiasco. The woman should have been president.

"I'm a Floridian. I'm used to my vote not being counted." ... is my standard saying.

No, I'm not bitter.

Yes, she's a fabulous S-o-S.

53 blueraven  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:25:12am

re: #46 Milty

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!

Here is an idea. Why dont you write a page about your "gender feminist" instead of hijacking a thread with the old and tired magical balance fairy.

54 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:25:12am

re: #46 Milty

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!

I suspect the Muslims are behind this.

55 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:25:53am

re: #46 Milty

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!

Does someone pay you to come here or are you really that crazy?

56 recusancy  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:26:06am

re: #48 marjoriemoon

I agree.

Except Jon is a jerk :p

I don't hate him, but I don't particularly like him. I really like Colbert a lot more.

That's a long time to hold a grudge.

57 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:26:36am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LOUD NOISES!

Image: old_man_yells_at_cloud.jpg

58 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:26:41am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I suspect the Muslims are behind this.

Gay Muslim secular atheists.

59 BongCrodny  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:27:05am

re: #46 Milty

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!


"Gender feminists" is the new "Media/Democrat Party."

60 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:27:08am

re: #56 recusancy

That's a long time to hold a grudge.

It's my grudge, dammit!

61 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:27:53am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I suspect the Muslims are behind this.

the gender feminist Muslim liberals.

I remember this idiot. He's got some idea that people like Dworkin have actually had broad public influence.

62 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:29:23am

re: #61 Obdicut

the gender feminist Muslim liberals.

I remember this idiot. He's got some idea that people like Dworkin have actually had broad public influence.

Dworkin died years ago, and I've never known anyone who's actually read her books.

I think younger women now aren't going to give a shit about what a bunch of feminists wrote in the 60's and 70's. It's just not relevant to their lives.

63 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:30:32am

re: #46 Milty

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!

Huh? Ok, I guess we don't hear much from neuter feminists.

64 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:30:47am

re: #58 goddamnedfrank

Gay Muslim secular atheists.

No way. It's the atheist gender midget shemales.

//

65 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:33:46am

re: #64 Gus 802

Milty is also the genius who said this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Don't feel so bad, guys. You have been programmed to think one way for a very long time by the leftists Jews. But now a new kind of Jew will program you the other way. It will hurt a little in the beginning but you will feel better in the end. Promise. :-)

66 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:33:52am

Teabagger's recurring nightmare: The Shariah compliant neuter feminist ACORN militia.

67 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:35:35am

re: #66 Shiplord Kirel

Teabagger's recurring nightmare: The Shariah compliant neuter feminist ACORN militia.

Funded by George Soros and Saul Alinsky.

68 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:37:00am

re: #65 Obdicut

Milty is also the genius who said this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Yeah. I remember him. :)

69 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:37:14am

re: #62 Lidane

Dworkin died years ago, and I've never known anyone who's actually read her books.

I think younger women now aren't going to give a shit about what a bunch of feminists wrote in the 60's and 70's. It's just not relevant to their lives.

Of course not. They go through lives convincing themselves that such fights are "over," that society will never again slip into that sort of mindset. Meanwhile, the misogynists have gained enough power in legislatures across the country to begin chipping away at women's rights, under the banner of "traditional family values."

70 Alexzander  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:38:46am

re: #65 Obdicut

Milty is also the genius who said this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

ahhh... that's super messed up. Surprised he made it without a ban following that one.

71 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:39:34am

re: #65 Obdicut

Milty is also the genius who said this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Lovely.
/

72 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:41:03am

re: #65 Obdicut

Milty is also the genius who said this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Damn, he's on to me .....

73 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:41:43am

re: #65 Obdicut

Wow. Just wow.

74 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:42:06am

re: #70 Alexzander

ahhh... that's super messed up. Surprised he made it without a ban following that one.

If there's one thing I've learned in my years being here, it's that Charles has a seemingly infinite amount of patience.

75 Summer Lovin' Torture Party  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:42:40am

Can we please stop calling these flat-earthers "liars," and call them what they really are- Lying assholes.

76 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:42:54am

Que es Familism?

//

77 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:44:38am

re: #61 Obdicut

the gender feminist Muslim liberals.

I remember this idiot. He's got some idea that people like Dworkin have actually had broad public influence.

I've gained the strong impression he's in agreement with if not a subscriber to Di Tzeitung. (For those who don't recall, that's the paper that sparked a bit of controversy when it cut Clinton and Tomason from the pictures of the War Room when we got Obama.)

For that matter, he reminds me of some Israeli soldiers I was around for a few weeks, a few decades ago. Simply put, to them Ovadia Yosef is a moderate. They were, thankfully, a minority -- but not non-existent.

78 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:45:26am

Barton's on fire (or at least he should be)

Barton: The Free Enterprise System Came Directly Out Of The Bible

In Matthew 25 and Luke 19, the parable is meant to illustrate that every person will be judged by God for how they have used the gifts He has given them while Matthew 20 reveals that all those who accept Christ will receive the same eternal reward.

In each case, it is clear that the parables Jesus tells are designed to teach about spiritual issues, but Barton blindly asserts that they are about economic issues and that our entire economic system is based upon them.

79 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:46:02am

re: #75 Kid A

Can we please stop calling these flat-earthers "liars," and call them what they really are- Lying assholes.

Speaking as an asshole, I don't like to be compared to those fucktards.

80 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:46:09am

re: #69 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Of course not. They go through lives convincing themselves that such fights are "over," that society will never again slip into that sort of mindset. Meanwhile, the misogynists have gained enough power in legislatures across the country to begin chipping away at women's rights, under the banner of "traditional family values."

What I mean is that Dworkin's anti-porn rants and her radical ideas about gender aren't going to mean anything to a young woman now. Dworkin wrote them all 30+ years ago and died back in 2005. It's like reading Camille Paglia now: completely outdated and irrelevant.

There are still battles to be fought, but they have to be done with newer ideas and newer voices instead of just looking at what was written 30+ years ago.

81 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:46:10am

What are "trumped-up domestic violence charges"?

82 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:46:23am

re: #71 Killgore Trout

What's stupidest about that is the pretense there haven't been intellectually important conservative Jews up until now.

It's perfectly true that Jews tend to the more 'liberal' side, but that doesn't mean there haven't been conservative Jews around.

83 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:46:48am

Fiscal responsibility of the Tea Party....
Las Vegas resort sues tea party group over hotel bill

On Monday Venetian Casino Resort, LLC., filed suit against Tea Party Nation Corporation of Franklin, Tenn., alleging the group owes $642,144 for canceling a conservative conclave last year.

84 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:47:04am

Don't mind me. I'm up to no good. ;)

85 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:47:20am

Maleness or extinction!!11ty

//

86 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:47:37am

re: #80 Lidane

What I mean is that Dworkin's anti-porn rants and her radical ideas about gender aren't going to mean anything to a young woman now. Dworkin wrote them all 30+ years ago and died back in 2005. It's like reading Camille Paglia now: completely outdated and irrelevant.

There are still battles to be fought, but they have to be done with newer ideas and newer voices instead of just looking at what was written 30+ years ago.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry, only running on caffeine at the moment.

87 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:47:50am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Barton's on fire (or at least he should be)

Barton: The Free Enterprise System Came Directly Out Of The Bible

Barton's an idiot and an ass. It galls me that the Texas State Board of Education is taking an obvious fraud like David Barton seriously as a historian.

88 tnguitarist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:48:11am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I love how certain things in the bible are a parable when they need them to be and other stories a literal when convenient.

89 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:49:03am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Barton's on fire (or at least he should be)

Barton: The Free Enterprise System Came Directly Out Of The Bible

I think I actually felt my IQ dropping just from reading the headline. Is it normal to have grey matter dribbling from ones ears?

90 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:52:12am

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Barton's on fire (or at least he should be)

Barton: The Free Enterprise System Came Directly Out Of The Bible

So did the combustion engine.

//

91 SpaceJesus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:52:40am

re: #29 Alexzander

And my down ding is a reflection of my opinion

92 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:52:46am

re: #29 Alexzander

I think its lame SpaceJesus and Zathras downvoted you just for offering a personal opinion, without any question for clarification etc. We want people to give their opinions here right?

That was for the missing comma.

93 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:55:03am

re: #65 Obdicut

Milty is also the genius who said this:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Jews can be wingnuts too. Dennis Prager, Michael Medved, and Arutz Sheva are just a few examples.

Not to mention all the people who have called me a JINO because I don't hate Obama.

94 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:56:04am

re: #90 Gus 802

So did the combustion engine.

//

Then Martin Luther nailed a rotary engine to the church house door...

95 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:56:12am

PIMF (and a lot of banging head on desk in hopes it'll fix the brain cells)
re: #77 kirkspencer

I've gained the strong impression he's in agreement with if not a subscriber to Di Tzeitung. (For those who don't recall, that's the paper that sparked a bit of controversy when it cut Clinton and Tomason from the pictures of the War Room when we got Obama OSAMA.)

For that matter, he reminds me of some Israeli soldiers I was around for a few weeks, a few decades ago. Simply put, to them Ovadia Yosef is a moderate. They were, thankfully, a minority -- but not non-existent.

96 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 11:56:15am

re: #56 recusancy

That's a long time to hold a grudge.

Btw, if Stewart had actually been fair and leveled a little criticism at Obama, maybe he wouldn't have gotten as many votes. I mean, who knows, right? Can't go back and say now. It's over and done, but the fact that he so obviously supported Obama and Stewart's demographic is the 20-something group (which Hillary could have used more of), he may have been more of an influence than we know in the final numbers.

OTOH since Hillary's votes weren't counted in Florida, effectively wiping her out of the running, it didn't matter anyway. The King of the Democrats wanted Obama to win and he won.

No, I'm not bitter.

97 calochortus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:00:50pm

re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

David Barton breaks Kragar's Law again;

Indiana's "Hoosier" nickname derived from itinerant Black preacher Harry Hoosier



Not quite.

Where is BlackEvangelistHoops? Maybe he can straighten this out.

Because I'm just a little picky about facts, I present the following:

First Great Awakening-1730s and 40s.
Harry Hoosier's life-1750-1810
Second Great Awakening-first 3 or 4 decades of the 1800s

Barton apparently doesn't know the difference between the first and second Great Awakenings. As an atheist/agnostic I'm happy to be able to straighten him out.

98 shiplord kirel  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:01:07pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Then Martin Luther nailed a rotary engine to the church house door...

Nah, it was the plans for the magical 100 mpg carburetor. (In my experience the latter figures prominently in far right technological analysis).

99 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:03:07pm

re: #93 Alouette

I don't even know what a nationalistic Jew is supposed to be, from his perspective. I guess he's talking about Israel. But my nation is the United States, so it's hard for me to get nationalistic about Israel.

He's kind of a mess. If he is even Jewish, he does an enormous disservice to religiously conservative Jews by taking on their mantle for himself.

100 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:03:43pm

re: #96 marjoriemoon

Marjorie, I think you're treating Stewart like a pundit or a campaigner. He's a comedian - one with political opinions, granted, but a comedian. I don't think he's above using his position to broadcast his personal opinion filtered by comedic writing, but he's under no obligation to be fair or kind to anyone.

101 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:05:33pm

re: #96 marjoriemoon


OTOH since Hillary's votes weren't counted in Florida, effectively wiping her out of the running, it didn't matter anyway. The King of the Democrats wanted Obama to win and he won.

No, I'm not bitter.

Come on, that's silly. Nobody's votes were counted in Florida. Alleging that was because the "King of the Democrats" wanted it is conspiratorial.

102 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:05:59pm

re: #98 shiplord kirel

Nah, it was the plans for the magical 100 mpg carburetor. (In my experience the latter figures prominently in far right technological analysis).

Its a well known fact that the Millenium Falcon was able to make the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs because it had a secret hyperdrive carburetor Han received from Jewbacca...

103 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:06:48pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I cast magic missile at the darkness.

104 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:07:21pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its a well known fact that the Millenium Falcon was able to make the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs because it had a secret hyperdrive carburetor Han received from Jewbacca...

But given that the "Kessel Run" measurement is used to show how close you can get without getting destroyed in the process wouldn't you need a super secret steering system more than a carburetor?

105 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:08:29pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

But given that the "Kessel Run" measurement is used to show how close you can get without getting destroyed in the process wouldn't you need a super secret steering system more than a carburetor?

/rolls for initiative...

106 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:10:03pm

re: #103 Obdicut

I cast magic missile at the darkness.

Check your email. ;)

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:10:14pm

re: #5 Winny Spencer

I can't stand him to be honest.

I like him fine, but that wasn't worth five down-dings.

Jesus, people.

108 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:10:36pm

re: #104 jamesfirecat

But given that the "Kessel Run" measurement is used to show how close you can get without getting destroyed in the process wouldn't you need a super secret steering system more than a carburetor?

I'd argue this with you, but I failed the Intelligence check, so I'm just gonna stand here and drool.

/fallout mode

109 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:10:39pm

re: #5 Winny Spencer

I can't stand him to be honest.

Upding for honestly stating your opinion. Even though I like Al.

110 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:11:13pm

re: #103 Obdicut

How quaint. Lumos is the more accepted spell for lighting one's way. /

111 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:12:03pm

re: #110 lawhawk

Don't tell me you've never seen:

Youtube Video
112 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:12:11pm

re: #110 lawhawk

How quaint. Lumos is the more accepted spell for lighting one's way. /

"No, the orc's eye are not considered a valid target for a light spell."

113 simoom  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:14:15pm

Off topic, but I just stumbled on a Google Chrome feature I hadn't noticed before. I went to left-click the refresh button, but middle-clicked it instead, and it opens a new tab with the page you wanted to refresh. So you end up with both the original state of the page and the refreshed state in separate tabs.

Firefox seems to do the same thing too.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:14:36pm

re: #39 marjoriemoon

It isn't so much that, but he gave zero love to Hillary. None. Just one criticism after another and zero criticism to Obama. All of a sudden it changed? Why?

Obama's the President now.

Makes a difference.

115 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:14:59pm

The heat has returned. Now if I drop down to 95 pounds maybe it won't feel as hot.

//

116 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:15:11pm

re: #100 Coracle

Marjorie, I think you're treating Stewart like a pundit or a campaigner. He's a comedian - one with political opinions, granted, but a comedian. I don't think he's above using his position to broadcast his personal opinion filtered by comedic writing, but he's under no obligation to be fair or kind to anyone.

I think he's sneaky. He comes off as a liberal, right? Fox certainly sees him as a liberal. That big mess last week or so was all about liberal v conservative talk hosts. But he sucks at being a liberal as far as I'm concerned.

Colbert is a liberal and I think it's abundantly clear, even through the comedy.

My husband yells at me about what you said, "He's a comedian already!" But he's wrong, too.

LOL

117 celticdragon  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:15:25pm

re: #46 Milty

Ah, if I had a dollar for every time gender feminists lied about domestic violence statistics, I could buy George Soros... You should at least tell your readers that feminists are known to terrorize anyone who tries to do any real research on that subject. They have entire "gender studies" programs that are nothing but political machines. Talk about cults!

Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest derp?

118 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:15:33pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama's the President now.

Makes a difference.

Candidate Obama just had to say the things Jon agrees with... President Obama actually has to get them done which is a lot harder which is why Jon finds a lot more failures to poke fun at for better or worse...

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:15:33pm

re: #82 Obdicut

Apparently he's so far-right, that for him all those liberals and conservatives are just one small dot on the political axis.

120 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:16:00pm

re: #101 Obdicut

Come on, that's silly. Nobody's votes were counted in Florida. Alleging that was because the "King of the Democrats" wanted it is conspiratorial.

Obama's votes were counted. He took Florida.

121 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:16:56pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama's the President now.

Makes a difference.

I just take a deep breath and try to get over myself.

I don't dislike Obama, but he wasn't my first pick. It's just sour grapes at this point, I guess.

122 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:17:09pm

re: #96 marjoriemoon

Well, I understand your frustration. However, I'd say it would be better focused at the overall presidential primary system that puts so much value on protecting the status of certain early states which hold their positions because, uh, they've been first for a long time. The rules on how early primaries could be were put in place well before things started.

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:18:04pm

re: #49 Lidane

WTF does any of that have to do with the topic at hand? FAIL.

Magical balance fairy does a triple lutz.

124 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:18:17pm

re: #116 marjoriemoon

I think he's sneaky. He comes off as a liberal, right? Fox certainly sees him as a liberal. That big mess last week or so was all about liberal v conservative talk hosts. But he sucks at being a liberal as far as I'm concerned.

Colbert is a liberal and I think it's abundantly clear, even through the comedy.

My husband yells at me about what you said, "He's a comedian already!" But he's wrong, too.

LOL

That's what I like about Stewart. He's a moderate or a centrist. He's also pretty funny. I went from liking him to disliking him and now back to liking him. He's at his prime now. Best he's ever been. Plus he's got this Trenton/Lawrenceville jive thing going that I can relate with.

125 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:18:27pm

re: #120 marjoriemoon

Obama's votes were counted. He took Florida.

And HELLO he was campaigning down here. I have pictures of him. I was there so that was all bullshit.

Look, at least McCain didn't win. I can be thankful.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:18:52pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I suspect the Muslims are behind this.

No, Muslims really DO beat their wives, but no one else does, and anyone who says they do is a gender feminist. So there.

//Something like that. Dear God.

127 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:19:09pm

re: #111 Obdicut

Ummm... no, but I lived through something similar a long long long time ago. /memories of AD&D

128 Spocomptonite  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:19:35pm

Al Franken: Proof that Minnesota's electorate aren't all idiots. I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around him being one of the senators representing Bachmann's district.

129 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:19:44pm

re: #59 BongCrodny

"Gender feminists" is the new "Media/Democrat Party."

I am a genderless feminist.

It's easier that way.

130 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:20:05pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

And you nailed the landing....

5.8
5.8
5.9
6.0
5.5 (Russian Judge) /old joke and scoring system

131 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:20:17pm

re: #123 SanFranciscoZionist

Magical balance fairy does a triple lutz.

Of course I read that as "a triple lulz".

132 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:20:29pm

re: #115 Gus 802

The heat has returned. Now if I drop down to 95 pounds maybe it won't feel as hot.

//

It's heat index of 105 here, but my cat wishes to go outside and eat grass. Being the really white boy that I am, I think he can wait until after sunset.

133 William of Orange  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:20:35pm

Totally off topic but I though I should share this with you. The first time I heard a creative use of Bill O'Reilly comment. And this time it's his "Tide goes in, tide goes out" rant. Coupled with the main theme of "Close encounters of the 3rd kind".

[Link: seventytwothree.yolasite.com...]

Enjoy.

134 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:20:43pm

re: #122 Simply Sarah

Well, I understand your frustration. However, I'd say it would be better focused at the overall presidential primary system that puts so much value on protecting the status of certain early states which hold their positions because, uh, they've been first for a long time. The rules on how early primaries could be were put in place well before things started.

True. I'm not sure I quite understand all of it either.

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:20:43pm

re: #128 Spocomptonite

Al Franken: Proof that Minnesota's electorate aren't all idiots. I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around him being one of the senators representing Bachmann's district.

I've read that at the local level they actually work together nicely.

136 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:21:17pm

re: #127 lawhawk

Ummm... no, but I lived through something similar a long long long time ago. /memories of AD&D

"You see a gazebo on hill."
"I ready my weapons."
"What?"

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:21:38pm

re: #62 Lidane

Dworkin died years ago, and I've never known anyone who's actually read her books.

I think younger women now aren't going to give a shit about what a bunch of feminists wrote in the 60's and 70's. It's just not relevant to their lives.

Some of the second wave's writing has been very inspirational to me, although it's dated now.

Not Dworkin, I must admit, although I did read about half of one of her later books, and the article that she wrote after that weird maybe-rape at the hotel, not long before she died.

138 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:22:02pm

re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist

I am a genderless feminist.

It's easier that way.

lol (what's a gender feminist anyway?)

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:23:19pm

re: #80 Lidane

What I mean is that Dworkin's anti-porn rants and her radical ideas about gender aren't going to mean anything to a young woman now. Dworkin wrote them all 30+ years ago and died back in 2005. It's like reading Camille Paglia now: completely outdated and irrelevant.

There are still battles to be fought, but they have to be done with newer ideas and newer voices instead of just looking at what was written 30+ years ago.

Camille Paglia was BORN outdated.

Best thing ever was when she and Julie Burchill went at each other via fax.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:24:00pm

re: #81 Gus 802

What are "trumped-up domestic violence charges"?

You know, it's when I lie through my teeth and say my husband hit me, and he's arrested and locked in Pelican Bay for twenty-five years without parole. Happens all the time.

//

141 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:24:19pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

Some of the second wave's writing has been very inspirational to me, although it's dated now.

Not Dworkin, I must admit, although I did read about half of one of her later books, and the article that she wrote after that weird maybe-rape at the hotel, not long before she died.

Dworkin was off her rocker.

142 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:24:44pm

re: #120 marjoriemoon

Obama's votes were counted. He took Florida.

That's not true.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

What you mean is that he majority voted for him when he was already the presumptive nominee.

It is not that Hilary's votes were not counted and his were.

143 calochortus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:25:23pm

re: #138 marjoriemoon

lol (what's a gender feminist anyway?)


Wikipedia knows all

144 allegro  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:28:44pm

re: #138 marjoriemoon

lol (what's a gender feminist anyway?)

Anyone a MRA doesn't like.

145 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:29:00pm

re: #134 marjoriemoon

True. I'm not sure I quite understand all of it either.

I was a mess and shouldn't have had to happen. That being said, once it had been originally ruled that the results of the Florida and Michigan primaries wouldn't count, that really made it hard for me to view the results from them as truly legitimate, since I know a lot of people stayed home and (unofficial) campaigning in the states was minimal.

Was it fair? No way. But once things got that far, I'm not sure there was a good option on how to handle things.

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:30:26pm

Via Dkos: Beck said this:

"Count me a Jew and come for me first...Show me the Jews -- I'm one."

147 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:31:37pm

I just spoke to my son about why there are no pictures on Facebook and he told me there is an issue with the baby's right ear and ear canal being underdeveloped. Right now they are evaluating the condition and what can be done now, if surgery is necessary and when can it be performed. Inner ear affects balance so this is not trivial.

My son is under a lot of stress right now and those who can pray, please think of Tinok ben Yosef (he does not have a name yet).

148 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:32:14pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

You know, it's when I lie through my teeth and say my husband hit me, and he's arrested and locked in Pelican Bay for twenty-five years without parole. Happens all the time.

//

Here's some insight. Or more of a backgrounder for our ruffled fellow Lizard...

[Link: familism.org...]

149 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:32:30pm

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

Via Dkos: Beck said this:

"Count me a Jew and come for me first...Show me the Jews -- I'm one."

/facepalm

150 Spocomptonite  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:32:39pm

re: #135 Sergey Romanov

I've read that at the local level they actually work together nicely.

Wow, must not be on any hot-button issues, right? Franken's patient, logical intellect and Bachmann's emotional, illogical adherance to dogma would put them at odds on most things. And while Franken I can see being reasonable about their differences, Bachmann I just cannot.

151 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:32:53pm

re: #147 Alouette

That area's gotten some good research, so hopefully they'll be successful in whatever is necessary.

152 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:34:07pm

Al Franken rocks.

153 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:34:29pm

re: #138 marjoriemoon

lol (what's a gender feminist anyway?)

Christina Hoff Sommers claims there are two distinct groups of American feminists, equity feminists, who are gooood, and all about equality, and civil rights and such, but not in a way that causes social strife or blames anyone for inequality, and gender feminists who are bad, and hate men, but who also pretend there's no such thing as real gender differences and stuff, and screw their little girls up by making them play with Tonka trucks.

This is my slightly biased and snide summation of her theory.

In Milty's use, 'gender feminists' is meant to imply that he's all for women having equal rights, like they already do, he's just not down with women making a fuss about fake stuff like domestic violence.

154 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:35:22pm

re: #151 Obdicut

That area's gotten some good research, so hopefully they'll be successful in whatever is necessary.

Can you recommend some links where I can learn about this?

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:35:54pm

re: #147 Alouette

I just spoke to my son about why there are no pictures on Facebook and he told me there is an issue with the baby's right ear and ear canal being underdeveloped. Right now they are evaluating the condition and what can be done now, if surgery is necessary and when can it be performed. Inner ear affects balance so this is not trivial.

My son is under a lot of stress right now and those who can pray, please think of Tinok ben Yosef (he does not have a name yet).

Of course. All my prayers going out to them.

156 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:36:46pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course. All my prayers going out to them.

Actually pray for Tinok ben Etta Rivka (the mother's name)

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:37:25pm

re: #156 Alouette

Actually pray for Tinok ben Etta Rivka (the mother's name)

I'm an old-time egalitarian. I'll use everyone's name.

:)

158 Artist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:37:49pm

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

Via Dkos: Beck said this:

"Count me a Jew and come for me first...Show me the Jews -- I'm one."

Dear Glenn Beck,

DIAF.

Signed,
The sane world.

159 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:38:20pm

re: #154 Alouette

Can you recommend some links where I can learn about this?

These people are very good:

[Link: www.hei.org...]

That's the institute founded by House, who invented the Cochlear transplant and a lot of other stuff, besides.

However, I'm not sure how big they are on the developmental stuff.

I'll ask my wife if there's some other center of learning she knows about that would be appropriate.

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:39:45pm

[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

But he actually shows some sanity at last!

"I and my family will stand against anyone trying to erase liquidate or round up any group of people," includes Muslims.

In a world "trying to cast out the Jew the Gentile or the Muslim just because of who they are" he will no longer be a human.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:40:43pm

re: #160 Sergey Romanov

[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

But he actually shows some sanity at last!

Has Pam seen this? Heads will 'splode.

162 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:41:31pm

re: #147 Alouette

Sorry about the birth defect, but I would encourage him to post the pics anyway and celebrate the new life and be grateful for what he has. We lost ours last time we tried...it still hurts.

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:41:55pm

re: #161 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, but it's all talk and acting in opposite to what he says.

164 What, me worry?  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42:10pm

re: #142 Obdicut

That's not true.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

What you mean is that he majority voted for him when he was already the presumptive nominee.

It is not that Hilary's votes were not counted and his were.

Doesn't really say it there. I thought his delegates were seated and hers were not.

But anyhoo, I have to jet. Will come back later.

165 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:42:41pm

re: #154 Alouette

NY Eye and Ear Infirmary has some more background info. From what you wrote, it sounds like this may be the condition involved.

166 Mr. Crankypants  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:43:59pm

re: #98 shiplord kirel

Nah, it was the plans for the magical 100 mpg carburetor. (In my experience the latter figures prominently in far right technological analysis).

was it right after he posted the 99 feces

167 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:44:47pm

re: #166 pt barnum

was it right after he posted the 99 feces

I love that song.

168 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:46:23pm

re: #165 lawhawk

NY Eye and Ear Infirmary has some more background info. From what you wrote, it sounds like this may be the condition involved.

Thanks for the link, that is very helpful. My son said that otherwise the baby is doing fine.

169 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:47:02pm

re: #165 lawhawk

And for what it's worth Alouette, here's hoping that the docs can treat your family's new bundle of joy and that the baby has a long, happy, and otherwise healthy life.

170 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:47:26pm

re: #168 Alouette

Thanks for the link, that is very helpful. My son said that otherwise the baby is doing fine.

excellent news...and congrats

171 celticdragon  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:52:57pm

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

Christina Hoff Sommers claims there are two distinct groups of American feminists, equity feminists, who are goood, and all about equality, and civil rights and such, but not in a way that causes social strife or blames anyone for inequality, and gender feminists who are bad, and hate men, but who also pretend there's no such thing as real gender differences and stuff, and screw their little girls up by making them play with Tonka trucks.

This is my slightly biased and snide summation of her theory.

In Milty's use, 'gender feminists' is meant to imply that he's all for women having equal rights, like they already do, he's just not down with women making a fuss about fake stuff like domestic violence.

Early female Soviet Commissar Alexandra Kollontai was a real big fan of extinguishing gender differences in society, and tried to do it through the Zhenotdel organizations she was in charge of plating throughout the Early Soviet Union.

It was a spectacular failure. Russian patriarchal social structures simply didn't go along, and practical matters like creches and social canteens/cafeterias had all the ...ahem... quality you expect in a communist system, which is to say, not very much. Youth communistic leagues or Komsomols were not all welcoming to girls and operated more as frat houses for drunken young men.

Kollontai was exiled to a diplomatic post in Sweden and women largely remained in the kitchen and having kids. The men got drunk every night and ran the show.

172 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:53:45pm

U.N. declares famine in Somalia; makes urgent appeal to save lives
"We still do not have all the resources for food, clean water, shelter and health services to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of Somalis in desperate need."

more worthless blather from the UN....how much is the remodel job gonna cost....over a billion I think....nice new offices to send out press releases to describe their failures....the UN is a scam

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

173 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:54:50pm

re: #172 albusteve

C'mon...

174 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:55:19pm

Hot. Or like I tell my sister. I'm living in a Japanese prisoner of war camp with a computer. Circa 1940ish of course.

//

175 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:55:47pm

re: #172 albusteve

Callous. At the very least.

176 celticdragon  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:56:14pm

re: #172 albusteve

We all know those starving people in the Horn of Africa are unsightly, and they are probably a bleeding heart liberal scam as well. Best that they die and decrease the surplus population.

derp.

177 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 12:58:25pm

re: #5 Winny Spencer

I can't stand him to be honest.

I love him for two reasons.

1) He's smart.
2) He drive the right crazy.

178 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:00:40pm

re: #172 albusteve

U.N. declares famine in Somalia; makes urgent appeal to save lives
"We still do not have all the resources for food, clean water, shelter and health services to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of Somalis in desperate need."

more worthless blather from the UN...how much is the remodel job gonna cost...over a billion I think...nice new offices to send out press releases to describe their failures...the UN is a scam

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

179 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:02:53pm

Here is a webpage that lists true studies on DV.

Also, the 0.03% of you with some scientific curiosity in them want to look up the conferences named "From Ideology to Inclusion."

180 Ericus58  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:03:23pm

re: #162 darthstar

Sorry about the birth defect, but I would encourage him to post the pics anyway and celebrate the new life and be grateful for what he has. We lost ours last time we tried...it still hurts.

oh damn... Darth - you have my sincere man-hug.

181 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:07:32pm

re: #179 Milty

Bzzt.

Here is a webpage that lists true studies on DV.

Also, the 0.03% of you with some scientific curiosity in them want to look up the conferences named "From Ideology to Inclusion."

Martin S. Fiebert of the Department of Psychology at California State University, Long Beach, has compiled an annotated bibliography of research relating to spousal abuse by women on men. This bibliography examines 275 scholarly investigations: 214 empirical studies and 61 reviews and/or analyses, which appear to demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 365,000.[119] In a Los Angeles Times article about male victims of domestic violence, Fiebert suggests that "...consensus in the field is that women are as likely as men to strike their partner but that—as expected—women are more likely to be injured than men."[120] However, he noted, men are seriously injured in 38% of the cases in which "extreme aggression" is used. Fiebert additionally noted that his work was not meant to minimize the serious effects of men who abuse women.

Women are far more likely to use weapons in their domestic violence, whether throwing a plate or firing a gun.[121]

In a review of the research however Michael Kimmel found that violence is instrumental in maintaining control and that more than 90 percent of "systematic, persistent, and injurious" violence is perpetrated by men. He points out that most of the empirical studies that Fiebert reviewed used the same empirical measure of family conflict, i.e., the Conflict Tactics Scale (CTS) as the sole measure of domestic violence and that many of the studies noted by Fiebert discussed samples composed entirely of single people younger than 30, and not married couples.[122] Kimmel argues that among various other flaws, the CTS is particularly vulnerable to reporting bias because it depends on asking people to accurately remember and report what happened during the past year. However, men tend to under-estimate their use of violence, while women tend to over-estimate their use of violence. Simultaneously men tend to over-estimate their partner's use of violence while women tend to under-estimate their partner's use of violence. Thus, men will likely over-estimate their victimization, while women tend to underestimate theirs.[123]

Similarly, the National Institute of Justice states that the studies that find that women abuse men equally or even more than men abuse women are based on data compiled through the Conflict Tactics Scale, a survey tool developed in the 1970s and which may not be appropriate for intimate partner violence research because it does not measure control, coercion, or the motives for conflict tactics; it also leaves out sexual assault and violence by ex-spouses or partners and does not determine who initiated the violence. Furthermore, the NIJ contends that national surveys supported by NIJ, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Bureau of Justice Statistics that examine more serious assaults do not support the conclusion of similar rates of male and female spousal assaults. These surveys are conducted within a safety or crime context and clearly find more partner abuse by men against women.[124]

182 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:07:48pm

re: #179 Milty

Wow. You're a piece of work.

183 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:07:53pm

Fischer: Gay Rights And Religious Liberty Cannot Coexist


We cannot have the homosexual agenda and liberty; those two things are incompatible with each other. They cannot coexist. One is going to have to give. Either the homosexual agenda is going to have to retreat or religious liberty is going to have to retreat. Every advance of the homosexual agenda comes at the expense of religious liberty.

Fischer, you fucktard.

184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:07:58pm

Will someone please tell me what these lying social conservatives are even good for?

185 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:08:51pm

thirsty?....this is a frightening overview of the water problems in Vegas, hence the rest of the southwest
[Link: www.lasvegassun.com...]

186 zora  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:09:17pm

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

fundraising.

187 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:10:04pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fischer: Gay Rights And Religious Liberty Cannot Coexist

Fischer, you fucktard.

If by "religious liberty" he means "freedom to harass gay people", he's correct, and "religious liberty" (so defined) will have to go.

188 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:10:32pm

re: #186 zora

fundraising.

For both sides.

189 Ericus58  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:10:35pm

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Will someone please tell me what these lying social conservatives are even good for?

ah - Dartboard photo's?

190 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:11:29pm

re: #187 wrenchwench

If by "religious liberty" he means "freedom to harass gay people", he's correct, and "religious liberty" (so defined) will have to go.

Apparently religious liberty means everyone forced to conform to the dictates of one religious belief, regardless of their own personal beliefs.

191 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:12:12pm

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Will someone please tell me what these lying social conservatives are even good for?

professional voyeurs

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:12:18pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fischer: Gay Rights And Religious Liberty Cannot Coexist

Fischer, you fucktard.

Religious freedom and Fischer cannot coexist. Therefore Fischer has to go. Because I said so.

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:12:34pm

re: #179 Milty

Here is a webpage that lists true studies on DV.

Also, the 0.03% of you with some scientific curiosity in them want to look up the conferences named "From Ideology to Inclusion."

Jesus H. Christ. Fiebert didn't say there wasn't domestic violence against women, or that 'gender feminists' were lying when they said there were. He actually did a scientific study which ADDED to the research. That has not stopped his work from being seized on by every moron out there who wants to be a 'gender masculinist'.

Get lost.

194 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:13:02pm

re: #185 albusteve

thirsty?...this is a frightening overview of the water problems in Vegas, hence the rest of the southwest
[Link: www.lasvegassun.com...]

It may take several decades but sooner or later mankind will finally realize that Dr. Holdren and his peers were right all along. Too many people for too little a planet. It's just not going to work.

195 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:13:07pm

re: #183 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fischer: Gay Rights And Religious Liberty Cannot Coexist

Fischer, you fucktard.

By that logic, can't you replace the word "homosexual" with just about any other group and say the same thing? The female agenda? The black agenda? Or even the Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or Buddhist agenda?

196 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:13:23pm

re: #187 wrenchwench

If by "religious liberty" he means "freedom to harass gay people", he's correct, and "religious liberty" (so defined) will have to go.

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

197 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:15:20pm

re: #185 albusteve

Well, if that happens, much of the Southwest will lose one of its major power sources - Lake Mead (and Lake Powell) provide the water necessary to generate power at Hoover Dam and Glen Canyon Dam.

Huge doesn't begin to describe it - and people have to realize that water is a finite and limited resource to the point that localities should ban all water usage for lawns and xeriscaping should be required.

The amount of water wasted on lawns is insane, but agriculture in deserts both upstream and downstream play a huge role in the problem.

But it's hardly the only place where water usage has to change. The SW has the chance to become a leader in water conservation and move towards more use of grey-water and other technologies to stretch limited supplies.

199 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:15:39pm

re: #194 Gus 802

It may take several decades but sooner or later mankind will finally realize that Dr. Holdren and his peers were right all along. Too many people for too little a planet. It's just not going to work.

desalination is the only answer/hope...better get to it

200 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:16:25pm

I did a little research because I was confused about the meaning of the term "Homosexual Agenda". My startling results:

Conservative definition of Homosexual Agenda

Liberal Definition of Homosexual Agenda

Horrible Truth of the Actual Homosexual Agenda

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:16:46pm

re: #2 Lidane

I love Al Franken, I LOVE HIM DEARLY

Smarter than half the tools in the Senate put together

202 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:17:36pm

re: #187 wrenchwench

If by "religious liberty" he means "freedom to harass gay people", he's correct, and "religious liberty" (so defined) will have to go.

Well, of course. Gay rights are an affront and insult to all religions and it they force them to go against their teachings, which cannot be allowed. Of course, religious groups that support gay rights simply don't count and shouldn't have "religious liberty".

203 lawhawk  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:18:10pm

re: #194 Gus 802

Well, it also has to do with building metropolises in deserts that had limited water to begin with - and assuming that future rainfall will be like earlier patterns. When they divided up the water from the Colorado in the 1920s, it was during a wetter period in the Colorado basin. Turns out that the usual rainfall is far less. The Colorado compact is a huge problem for the SW states and Mexico - and there have been decades of fighting over how the water is allocated.

204 Spocomptonite  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:18:41pm

re: #172 albusteve

U.N. declares famine in Somalia; makes urgent appeal to save lives
"We still do not have all the resources for food, clean water, shelter and health services to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of Somalis in desperate need."

more worthless blather from the UN...how much is the remodel job gonna cost...over a billion I think...nice new offices to send out press releases to describe their failures...the UN is a scam

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Would you know about a famine in Somalia if the UN hadn't declared there to be one? See, even a cynical, biased person like you just admitted the UN did something good.

Seriously, though, now that there's a formal declaration there can be formal international aid sent in. That's what these declarations are for. Letting you know about it, I'm sure, a waste of UN resources.

205 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:20:43pm

re: #197 lawhawk

But it's hardly the only place where water usage has to change. The SW has the chance to become a leader in water conservation and move towards more use of grey-water and other technologies to stretch limited supplies.

Water and energy conservation are liberal plots and we must protect America's youth from such indoctrination.

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:21:19pm

re: #181 Gus 802

Bzzt.

Irrelevent. We've found someone to say that women hit just as much, so any concern for the 1500 women killed by domestic abusers annually (that's from the FBI, well known gender feminists that they are) is just academic drivel designed to make men feel bad.

//

207 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:21:31pm

Modern Evangelicals are besides themselves in fear that someone, somewhere, might be doing something they disapprove of personally.

208 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:21:56pm

re: #199 albusteve

desalination is the only answer/hope...better get to it

That would help but I don't think it's the only solution. In Vegas's case a lot more can be done regarding urban planning and construction (particularly HVAC standards and water use) that can help curb the water requirements over the long haul. One thing is for certain is that they presence of grass lawns will be less and less over the years. In fact they should be outright prohibted in areas which require high water use. Which reminds me. We also need to step up the establishment of a gray water infrastructure.

209 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:22:11pm

re: #205 publicityStunted

God gave us the Earth. Do you really think he'll let us mess it up?
/

210 BongCrodny  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:22:20pm

re: #194 Gus 802

It may take several decades but sooner or later mankind will finally realize that Dr. Holdren and his peers were right all along. Too many people for too little a planet. It's just not going to work.


Jeff Jacoby, the house conservative columnist for the Boston Globe, had this to say today:

For more than 200 years the population alarmists have been predicting the worst, and for more than 200 years their predictions have failed to come true. As the number of men, women, and children in the world has skyrocketed - from fewer than 1 billion when Malthus lived to nearly 7 billion today - so has the average standard of living. Poverty, disease, and hunger have not been eradicated, of course, and there are many people in dire need of help. But on the whole human beings are living longer, healthier, cleaner, richer, better-educated, more productive, and more comfortable lives than ever before.

When human beings proliferate, the result isn’t less of everything to go around. The planet doesn’t run out of food and fuel, minerals, and metals. On the contrary, most resources have grown cheaper and more abundant over the past couple centuries - in tandem with rising population.


I'm thinking of giving up dead tree media, because raging incoherently in front of my computer is much more emotionally satisfying than screaming at a newspaper.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:23:20pm

re: #210 BongCrodny

Jeff Jacoby, the house conservative columnist for the Boston Globe, had this to say today:


I'm thinking of giving up dead tree media, because raging incoherently in front of my computer is much more emotionally satisfying than screaming at a newspaper.

You can flap a newspaper more effectively though.

212 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:23:21pm

re: #203 lawhawk

Well, it also has to do with building metropolises in deserts that had limited water to begin with - and assuming that future rainfall will be like earlier patterns. When they divided up the water from the Colorado in the 1920s, it was during a wetter period in the Colorado basin. Turns out that the usual rainfall is far less. The Colorado compact is a huge problem for the SW states and Mexico - and there have been decades of fighting over how the water is allocated.

I was thinking of the overall picture.

213 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:23:25pm

re: #194 Gus 802

It may take several decades but sooner or later mankind will finally realize that Dr. Holdren and his peers were right all along. Too many people for too little a planet. It's just not going to work.

UNDERWATER CITIES

214 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:23:27pm

Al Franken not only does the research, he's good at relating it on the spot. This is still my favorite Al Franken Vid:

Youtube Video
215 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:24:21pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Jesus H. Christ. Fiebert didn't say there wasn't domestic violence against women, or that 'gender feminists' were lying when they said there were. He actually did a scientific study which ADDED to the research. That has not stopped his work from being seized on by every moron out there who wants to be a 'gender masculinist'.

Get lost.

No baby, this is where you are being an idiot. Fiebert did not do the research. He is patiently compiling all of the research that shows intimate partner violence is both gender-symmetrical and mutual. This research counters the gender feminist party line that says MEN BAD WOMEN GOOD, and more specifically MEN VIOLENT WOMEN VICTIMS.

The reason he is compiling it is online in this way that he feels the need to, because the gender feminists in academia work very hard to prevent / skew / hush up this research. Making people think violence in domestic situations is almost exclusively perpetrated by men is exceedingly important to the gender feminists. Useful idiots like you help perpetuate this perception.

216 Alexzander  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:24:34pm

re: #200 imp_62

I did a little research because I was confused about the meaning of the term "Homosexual Agenda". My startling results:

Conservative definition of Homosexual Agenda

Liberal Definition of Homosexual Agenda

Horrible Truth of the Actual Homosexual Agenda

Wait - you consider the wikipedia entry on the 'homosexual agenda' to be the liberal definition? Did I miss a sarc tag?

217 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:24:56pm

re: #208 Gus 802

That would help but I don't think it's the only solution. In Vegas's case a lot more can be done regarding urban planning and construction (particularly HVAC standards and water use) that can help curb the water requirements over the long haul. One thing is for certain is that they presence of grass lawns will be less and less over the years. In fact they should be outright prohibted in areas which require high water use. Which reminds me. We also need to step up the establishment of a gray water infrastructure.

desal may provide drinking water needs, but that's all...other uses will become almost irrelevant....the situation certainly requires a massed frontal assault, but people have not suffered enough yet....but it's coming

218 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:25:19pm

re: #182 Coracle

Wow. You're a piece of work.

He's a piece alright.

219 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:25:49pm

re: #215 Milty

Baby? Are you for real?

220 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:26:21pm

The Number One leading researcher on intimate partner violence is Prof. Murray Straus. The 0.0004% of you whose lobotomies were incomplete may find what he has to say interesting.

221 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:27:46pm

re: #220 Milty

You. Meet fuck.

222 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:28:58pm

re: #213 WindUpBird

UNDERWATER CITIES

Years ago, I was teaching middle school ESL. My kids, even the ones who'd been in the country about ten minutes, had to take the California seventh grade writing assessment.

The prompt, and I shall remember it always, went something like this:

"You move with your family to an underwater city. On your first day in your new home, you get up early and go exploring. What do you see? What do you do? Tell the story of your day."

Try explaining this concept in first-year English. I dare you.

223 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:29:03pm

Clearly Gil has an axe to grind.

224 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:30:26pm

The very elite among you might want to read this. And watch the video too, if you can handle it.

225 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:31:00pm

re: #215 Milty

No baby, this is where you are being an idiot. Fiebert did not do the research. He is patiently compiling all of the research that shows intimate partner violence is both gender-symmetrical and mutual. This research counters the gender feminist party line that says MEN BAD WOMEN GOOD, and more specifically MEN VIOLENT WOMEN VICTIMS.

The reason he is compiling it is online in this way that he feels the need to, because the gender feminists in academia work very hard to prevent / skew / hush up this research. Making people think violence in domestic situations is almost exclusively perpetrated by men is exceedingly important to the gender feminists. Useful idiots like you help perpetuate this perception.

No, what you've so carefully typed out is exactly what fools like you have chosen to make of his research, because it is very, very convenient for you, as you desperately try to find some reason you are a victim.

You do not understand his work, or the criticism of it, and you do not care to.

And your blabber about the 'gender feminists' 'hushing up' violence against men is beyond pathetic, as are you.

226 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:31:21pm

re: #217 albusteve

desal may provide drinking water needs, but that's all...other uses will become almost irrelevant...the situation certainly requires a massed frontal assault, but people have not suffered enough yet...but it's coming

We'll get there. But the most important thing we need to do is take action. Too many meetings and too much talking going on. We have the solutions at hand. We need to start building things again.

227 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:31:47pm

I always wondered what a twaddling prat looked like in the wild. Not that impressive really.

228 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:32:01pm

re: #216 Alexzander

Wait - you consider the wikipedia entry on the 'homosexual agenda' to be the liberal definition? Did I miss a sarc tag?

non-conservative? the whole post was implicitly sarc tagged, alex. i mean, read the last link.

229 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:32:58pm

re: #223 Gus 802

Clearly Gil has an axe to grind.

Those were the words I was thinking, except for the "Gil" part. ?

230 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:33:09pm

re: #215 Milty

OK, after reading just the first two words of that, I had trouble getting any further. Baby? I have had half a mind to slap you for that (The calling her an idiot would have gotten me most of the rest of the way there) if I heard you talk like that in person, but that would probably have just been further 'proof' of your position on domestic violence, wouldn't it?

You then go on to put your own words into Fiebert's mouth without any real basis for doing so. You also give no evidence to suggest that his data or conclusions are any more valid than the results of any 'biased gender feminist' research out there. Yes, he looked over a bunch of statistics and stated what he felt it meant. That doesn't mean the data was representative or that he's interpreting it correctly.

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:33:31pm

re: #224 Milty

The very elite among you might want to read this. And watch the video too, if you can handle it.

Arutz Sheva, LOL.

232 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:33:48pm

re: #229 wrenchwench

Those were the words I was thinking, except for the "Gil" part. ?

Oh, Ronen. Nevermind.

233 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:33:58pm

re: #221 darthstar

You. Meet fuck.

Why does anyone bother with this "Milty" character? Trolling should not be rewarded, even with downdings. The 100% of you with more class than he should know that.

234 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:34:02pm

re: #229 wrenchwench

Those were the words I was thinking, except for the "Gil" part. ?

Ask Milty that question. He already posted a link to his article and a video featuring himself.

235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:34:33pm

re: #233 imp_62

Ding whore.

236 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:34:57pm

re: #222 SanFranciscoZionist

Years ago, I was teaching middle school ESL. My kids, even the ones who'd been in the country about ten minutes, had to take the California seventh grade writing assessment.

The prompt, and I shall remember it always, went something like this:

"You move with your family to an underwater city. On your first day in your new home, you get up early and go exploring. What do you see? What do you do? Tell the story of your day."

Try explaining this concept in first-year English. I dare you.

Hell, I don't know how well I could do that *now*.

237 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:35:25pm

re: #225 SanFranciscoZionist

No, what you've so carefully typed out is exactly what fools like you have chosen to make of his research, because it is very, very convenient for you, as you desperately try to find some reason you are a victim.

You do not understand his work, or the criticism of it, and you do not care to.

And your blabber about the 'gender feminists' 'hushing up' violence against men is beyond pathetic, as are you.

And, just in case you don't understand, compiling a bibliography is 'research'. It's not just creating a list of papers that mysteriously got published despite the academic chokehold of the evil feminists.

238 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:35:27pm

re: #235 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ding whore.

Guilty. I will accept updings for my compelling honesty.

239 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:37:21pm

re: #179 Milty

Here is a webpage that lists true studies on DV.

Also, the 0.03% of you with some scientific curiosity in them want to look up the conferences named "From Ideology to Inclusion."

Downdinged because the various "men's interests" groups dominate your search string are vigourously misuing research data and models so that they can act po'faced and feel persecuted--and I'm being generous, as I suspect some haven't even read the authors they're waving the names of. You're in no position to cast aspersions on the curiousity of others when you haven't done the legwork to make sure your citations match your claim.

CAFC--the people who put on the conference you reference--is a organization that is concerned with all forms of domestic violence--and yes, they do make study and critique how DM policy issues fail male victims--but your assertion "gender feminists make up stuff" doesn't pass the a basic screening of the abstracts from the two CAFC conference brochures. Frankly, I dunno what your deal is, but your evidence doesn't sync with your assertion...and honestly I'm a bit piqued that you're misrepresenting them for your own ends.

240 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:37:37pm

re: #207 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Modern Evangelicals are besides themselves in fear that someone, somewhere, might be doing something they disapprove of personally.

Or find out the too are doing it, just like the rest.

241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:38:00pm

re: #238 imp_62

When you get dinged by people with long nics, it looks impressive, anyway.

242 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:38:00pm

re: #240 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

they

243 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:39:27pm

re: #44 goddamnedfrank

Hillary's been a fantastic SecState, but she ran a lousy campaign. Her outright dismissal of caucus states, attempts to win via super-delegates, and insistence that Obama could not win were incredibly annoying to people who voted for him. The sniper fire story didn't help. She redeemed herself greatly in our eyes by campaigning for him like a pro after losing the primary battle.

Her campaign created and promoted the birther meme. She used racism as an integral part of her strategy, and as such, she deserved to lose. The second she adopted that strategy, I dismissed her as unfit to lead. Apparently, so did the DNC base.

244 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:39:28pm

re: #225 SanFranciscoZionist

No, what you've so carefully typed out is exactly what fools like you have chosen to make of his research, because it is very, very convenient for you, as you desperately try to find some reason you are a victim.

You do not understand his work, or the criticism of it, and you do not care to.

And your blabber about the 'gender feminists' 'hushing up' violence against men is beyond pathetic, as are you.

This is where you are really being an idiot, because I can show you slides from a lecture by him in 2008 in which he lists feminist methods of distorting evidence (his words). Want to see them, Ms. Zionist from Afar? No, you want to curse me, so go ahead, you know I can't curse you back because it's not PC.

245 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:39:58pm

re: #241 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

When you get dinged by people with long nics, it looks impressive, anyway.

I know. I always get excited when I see "Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds" and "Fat Bastard Vegetarian" together, cuz I figure 'hey - that's 12 updings right there!'

246 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:39:59pm

re: #239 The Ghost of a Flea

Frankly, I dunno what your [Milty's] deal is, but your evidence doesn't sync with your assertion...

Word in brackets added for clarification.

The answer is simple and base misogyny.

247 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:40:25pm

re: #233 imp_62

Why does anyone bother with this "Milty" character? Trolling should not be rewarded, even with downdings. The 100% of you with more class than he should know that.

Maybe, maybe not. I'd argue that sometimes it's better to humor the troll rather than risk letting earnest foolishness go unchallenged, lest that foolishness start to take root and grow.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:40:39pm

re: #231 Sergey Romanov

Arutz Sheva, LOL.

Well, they also do 'heal the gay' ads.

What bothers me about folks who get on this kick about men being battered? It's all about hating on women for claiming to be victims. It's never about education or expanding services. I know people who help male domestic abuse victims, and they do not talk like this.

Clue: people who actually give a shit about men who are victims of domestic violence don't begin by whining about how women are lying to make men look bad. That's the giveaway that this is about defending themselves from imaginary (or not) accusations, not about helping those who need support.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:40:51pm

re: #233 imp_62

Why does anyone bother with this "Milty" character? Trolling should not be rewarded, even with downdings. The 100% of you with more class than he should know that.

Oh, all right.

250 Spocomptonite  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:41:05pm

re: #215 Milty

No baby, this is where you are being an idiot. Fiebert did not do the research. He is patiently compiling all of the research that shows intimate partner violence is both gender-symmetrical and mutual. This research counters the gender feminist party line that says MEN BAD WOMEN GOOD, and more specifically MEN VIOLENT WOMEN VICTIMS.

The reason he is compiling it is online in this way that he feels the need to, because the gender feminists in academia work very hard to prevent / skew / hush up this research. Making people think violence in domestic situations is almost exclusively perpetrated by men is exceedingly important to the gender feminists. Useful idiots like you help perpetuate this perception.

The misogyny dripping from the first two words completely undermines anything you said about gender in any subsequent words.

I am a guy, and it is true that men are the perpetrators in at least 90% of domestic violence. I have no problem admitting it, and it's no more sexist than saying men can run the 100m faster than women. I could go into the evolutionary reasons why males of our species tend to be more aggressive/violent, but the effort would be wasted on you. It's just true.

Why are you trying to Magical-Balance-Fairy this issue?

251 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:41:14pm

re: #245 imp_62

I know. I always get excited when I see "Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds" and "Fat Bastard Vegetarian" together, cuz I figure 'hey - that's 12 updings right there!'

And YOU: "OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin" YOU ought to have three LGF accounts with that nic.

252 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:41:28pm

re: #239 The Ghost of a Flea

I dunno what your deal is...

I found a clue:

milt (mlt)
n.
1.

a. Fish sperm, including the seminal fluid.
b. The reproductive glands of male fishes when filled with this fluid.


2. The spleen of certain vertebrate animals, such as cows or pigs.
tr.v. milt·ed, milt·ing, milts
To fertilize (fish roe) with milt.

At best, he's venting his spleen.

253 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:42:22pm

re: #239 The Ghost of a Flea

Downdinged because the various "men's interests" groups dominate your search string are vigourously misuing research data and models so that they can act po'faced and feel persecuted--and I'm being generous, as I suspect some haven't even read the authors they're waving the names of. You're in no position to cast aspersions on the curiousity of others when you haven't done the legwork to make sure your citations match your claim.

CAFC--the people who put on the conference you reference--is a organization that is concerned with all forms of domestic violence--and yes, they do make study and critique how DM policy issues fail male victims--but your assertion "gender feminists make up stuff" doesn't pass the a basic screening of the abstracts from the two CAFC conference brochures. Frankly, I dunno what your deal is, but your evidence doesn't sync with your assertion...and honestly I'm a bit piqued that you're misrepresenting them for your own ends.

You are just saying stuff you want to be true. I have been in touch with CAFC, I got the DVDs of the conference from them, I know exactly what they think and in any case, they don't matter so much, the experts matter. And the experts say that (gender) feminists terrorize researchers into saying what they want them to say. Deal with it, baby!

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:42:36pm

re: #244 Milty

This is where you are really being an idiot, because I can show you slides from a lecture by him in 2008 in which he lists feminist methods of distorting evidence (his words). Want to see them, Ms. Zionist from Afar? No, you want to curse me, so go ahead, you know I can't curse you back because it's not PC.

Whine, whine, whine.

Go ahead and curse, if it will make you feel better.

255 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:43:14pm

re: #252 wrenchwench

I found a clue:


2. The spleen of certain vertebrate animals, such as cows or pigs.
tr.v. milt·ed, milt·ing, milts
To fertilize (fish roe) with milt.

At best, he's venting his spleen.

See? See? I was right! It's all about spreading the of nonsense seed in the hope it will grow! Just not quite the same kind of seed I was using for my analogy.

256 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:43:27pm

I see an antagonistic prick has successfully managed to derail the thread.

257 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:43:27pm

re: #244 Milty

Hey, Miltie? SFZ's a lot of things. Idiot ain't close to being one of them.

258 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:44:02pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

Whine, whine, whine.

Go ahead and curse, if it will make you feel better.

Here. Read this really quickly. You can see where he's coming from...

Familism

Just as the word "feminism" comes from the Latin "femina", woman, Familism comes from the word "family".

Feminism is the 20th century rebellion of Woman against her central role in the family - in favor of "independence", "career fulfillment" - basically, anything that will justify breaking up the family unit and making all male interaction with women as unpleasant as possible. Familism, on the other hand, preaches a return to a harmonious interaction between the sexes. While feminist discourse regarding the relationship between the sexes incessantly conjures up images of blood, tears, bruises, intimidation, rape etc. - Familism believes that the interaction between the sexes is basically good: boys and girls, and men and women, like each other. Sexual tension is good, sex itself is good, love is good, children are good, families are good. Familism perceives no inherent struggle for power between the sexes, only harmony, or at least a potential for harmony. Familism sees maleness and femaleness as complementary qualities rather than competing ones.

The Lobby for the Family in Israel

The Lobby for the Family in Israel is doing all it can to save the Jewish Israeli family from extinction. At present, this institution is in grave danger. According to government statistics published in Haaretz, the number of marriages conducted by the Rabbinate dropped 20% between 1999 and 2001, and then dropped a whopping 30% more between 2001 and 2002. The number of civil marriages has dropped too. Part of this may be attributed to the effects of the war - but most of it is a result of feminist mischief, which manifests itself in media control, in propaganda, in legislation, in anti-male bias and corruption within the mostly female AG's office and Ministry of Labor of Welfare, and at the Family Courts.

Not only is the Jewish-Israeli family unit suffering, and not only are tens of thousands of men and children (and women, too) suffering personally from the acrimonious poison that feminism has injected into our lives - even Israel's security is at risk, now that feminists have become involved in shaping national defense policy as well (see "Maleness or Extinction").

The Lobby for the Family in Israel is doing all it can - on a voluntary basis - to change this situation. Over the period from January 2003 to September 2004 we have been responsible for dozens of articles in various Israeli newspapers and websites, and the effect of our lobbying activity is being felt countrywide. When Israel's feminist lobby confronted Finance Minister Bibi Netanyahu over his scaling down of lavish welfare support for divorced women (the Viki Knafo campaign), we were the sole voice of support for Bibi in Israel's media and were in close touch with his aides (Bibi did not surrender to the intense feminist pressure, and we have reason to believe we played a part in this).

Gil Ronen, who heads the Lobby, has appeared on TV opposite feminist leaders - offering the first challenge, ever, to feminist dogma in the mainstream Israeli press.

259 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:44:24pm

re: #253 Milty

And the experts say that (gender) feminists terrorize researchers into saying what they want them to say. Deal with it, baby!

Is that too long to rotate?

260 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:44:25pm

Feminist mischief!

//

261 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:44:43pm

re: #220 Milty

The Number One leading researcher on intimate partner violence is Prof. Murray Straus. The 0.0004% of you whose lobotomies were incomplete may find what he has to say interesting.

What you might like to do is read some more of Dr. Straus's work. He's noticed over the years a few discrepancies he considers interesting. Allow me to summarize.

Where the survey is of initiated violence, female and male initiation is close to symmetrical. That is your point, but it's where you stop.

Where the survey is of damage from violence, females suffer in severity at rates 4 to 6 times those suffered by men.

Where the survey is not of domestic violence but of domestic crime, the male is charged 7 to 13 times more often.

Dr. Straus notes in his later work that there are a number of reasons for the disparity. At no time, however, does he claim it is due to biased researchers. Instead, the most frequent reason he cites is that males tend to hit harder and with more purpose than females.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:45:28pm

re: #258 Gus 802

Here. Read this really quickly. You can see where he's coming from...

Familism

I get where he's coming from...believe me.

I gotta stop feeding trolls.

263 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:45:31pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

Whine, whine, whine.

Go ahead and curse, if it will make you feel better.

I find his statement even more...let's say interesting, given the fact that you've been, all things considered, extremely polite in responding to him. Cursing at him? Not so much.

264 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:45:36pm

Hey baby...I can call you baby, right? Of course I can...Let me tell you how it is, how I like to...uh...roll, if you will. You see, baby (there I go again), it's like this...there's me, there's you, and there's the leopard print sofa, and of course Barry White...oh yeah...that's right...it'll be a White night of light flight, sugar...I can call you sugar, can't I...I thought so...
/

265 Spocomptonite  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:45:37pm

re: #244 Milty

This is where you are really being an idiot,

Not even Palin could pull off the amount of hypocrisy and projection than you just did in that sentence. To, of all the people on this board, SFZ??? Dude, stop. Just, stop.

266 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:46:11pm

re: #250 Spocomptonite

The misogyny dripping from the first two words completely undermines anything you said about gender in any subsequent words.

I am a guy, and it is true that men are the perpetrators in at least 90% of domestic violence. I have no problem admitting it, and it's no more sexist than saying men can run the 100m faster than women. re: #250 Spocomptonite

The misogyny dripping from the first two words completely undermines anything you said about gender in any subsequent words.

I am a guy, and it is true that men are the perpetrators in at least 90% of domestic violence. I have no problem admitting it, and it's no more sexist than saying men can run the 100m faster than women. I could go into the evolutionary reasons why males of our species tend to be more aggressive/violent, but the effort would be wasted on you. It's just true.

Why are you trying to Magical-Balance-Fairy this issue?

I could go into the evolutionary reasons why males of our species tend to be more aggressive/violent, but the effort would be wasted on you. It's just true.

Why are you trying to Magical-Balance-Fairy this issue?

This bit about the 90% -- you know this because you are a guy? Because you have read the research? Because you are aware of the bitter controversy within academia and choose to believe the gender feminists over researchers like Prof. Straus? Or just because you are convinced that it is true, for some reason, and that's it?

267 garhighway  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:46:12pm

re: #214 prononymous

Al Franken not only does the research, he's good at relating it on the spot. This is still my favorite Al Franken Vid:

[Video]

I get that Al is an acquired taste, but you have to love how he:

1> Dealt with differing views in a patient and respectful way, and
2> Knew his shit on a very technical and arcane topic.

I like him. I think he is smart and funny. And I loved his book on Billo.

268 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:46:56pm

re: #253 Milty

Science as a conspiracy is a sure sign of a winning intellect.

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:46:59pm

Gawd, I hate to leave on a sour note, but I gotta get the bus. See you all on the other side (of the Bay, in about an hour and a half).

270 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:47:04pm

re: #264 darthstar

For some reason, Tom Jones' voice talking about "My lady" just went rampaging through my brain.

271 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:48:00pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

I get where he's coming from...believe me.

I gotta stop feeding trolls.

Yeah. It's not going to get anywhere. Milty's obviously going 100 MPH to nowhere.

272 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:48:24pm

re: #215 Milty

No baby, this is where you are being an idiot. Fiebert did not do the research. He is patiently compiling all of the research that shows intimate partner violence is both gender-symmetrical and mutual. This research counters the gender feminist party line that says MEN BAD WOMEN GOOD, and more specifically MEN VIOLENT WOMEN VICTIMS.

hahahahahahahahaha

No baby! You gots all the internets!

273 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:48:25pm

re: #256 Slumbering Behemoth

I see an antagonistic prick has successfully managed to derail the thread.

But let's be honest - most threads on lgf have a tenuous grip on the rails to begin with :D

274 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:48:31pm

re: #270 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

For some reason, Tom Jones' voice talking about "My lady" just went rampaging through my brain.

It's not unusual to be trolled by anyone,
It's not unusual but Milty makes it fun.
He's got issues, yes on that we can agree

275 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:48:35pm

re: #2 Lidane

I know a lot of people hate him and think he's obnoxious, but this is exactly why I like Al Franken. He's such a total policy wonk that he's going to have all the sources that are going to be cited right at hand in a debate.

I got to see Al speak and do a Q&A on Net Neutrality during SXSW. Good stuff.

I don't hate him, but I definitely don't like him. And my dislike of him is completely irrational. I've disliked him since I was a kid. Maybe it was the old school SNL stuff.

But hey, if he's dropping the hammer on bigots and haters like this FotF goon, he's got my support.

276 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:48:40pm

re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist

No baby! Not the bus!

277 darthstar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:49:15pm

re: #276 WindUpBird

No baby! Not the bus!

It's alright, baby...leave baby alone...she's got it all under control.

278 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:49:47pm

re: #253 Milty

Youtube Video
279 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:49:59pm

re: #273 imp_62

But let's be honest - most threads on lgf have a tenuous grip on the rails to begin with :D

There are rails?

280 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:50:30pm

Perhaps if you have a problem with certain feminist ideas or authors, it would be best to cite those ideas or authors directly.

"Gender feminism" seems a bit to broad or ill-defined a thing to dismiss.

I'll start with an example: I personally think Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon espoused positions which are more misandric than feminist, and as such, did damage to the feminist movement. I think their writings alienated a generation of men, and helped perpetuate a negative stereotype of feminists.

Just attacking "gender feminism" as a blanket category isn't likely to start a discussion, make a cogent point, or really, accomplish anything productive.

281 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:50:31pm

re: #244 Milty

Youtube Video
282 allegro  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:50:40pm

re: #244 Milty

This is where you are really being an idiot, because I can show you slides from a lecture by him in 2008 in which he lists feminist methods of distorting evidence (his words). Want to see them, Ms. Zionist from Afar? No, you want to curse me, so go ahead, you know I can't curse you back because it's not PC.

Golly, someone's mommy is late with the Cheetos.

283 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:50:55pm

re: #278 WindUpBird

Yes Officer, I am sure. The one in the middle is the one who beat me up for putting too much cream in her coffee.

284 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:51:19pm

re: #279 Simply Sarah

There are rails?

Youtube Video
285 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:51:31pm

You kids get offa my lawn!

286 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:51:38pm

re: #244 Milty

Youtube Video
287 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:51:50pm

re: #234 Gus 802

Ask Milty that question. He already posted a link to his article and a video featuring himself.

Wait, he identified himself as G.R.? Where?

288 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:52:08pm

re: #285 Gus 802

You kids get offa my lawn!

No baby! Stay out of my azaleas! Can't you see I am serious?

289 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:52:30pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

I get where he's coming from...believe me.

I gotta stop feeding trolls.

all those words, and look where it got you....anyway if trolls go away to soon people are pissed...if they stay around too long, people get pissed...people like the trolls, they just claim not to

290 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:52:33pm

re: #287 Sergey Romanov

Wait, he identified himself as G.R.? Where?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] here, apparently.

291 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:52:48pm

re: #261 kirkspencer

What you might like to do is read some more of Dr. Straus's work. He's noticed over the years a few discrepancies he considers interesting. Allow me to summarize.

Where the survey is of initiated violence, female and male initiation is close to symmetrical. That is your point, but it's where you stop.

Where the survey is of damage from violence, females suffer in severity at rates 4 to 6 times those suffered by men.

Where the survey is not of domestic violence but of domestic crime, the male is charged 7 to 13 times more often.

Dr. Straus notes in his later work that there are a number of reasons for the disparity. At no time, however, does he claim it is due to biased researchers. Instead, the most frequent reason he cites is that males tend to hit harder and with more purpose than females.

I have watched Straus's lecture from the DVD of the 2008 conference. Straus lists seven methods by which feminists (his word) "hide or distort" data. Do you want me to send you actual screenshots of his slides? Will this convince you?

292 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:54:04pm

I will say this. While Milty is pretty clearly a troll (Or so I can only hope), these situations can, in fact, present an opportunity to discuss topics and share information that might not otherwise come up, such as my irrational love of using too many commas.

293 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:54:21pm

LGF. WHere poorly researched opinions go to die be brutalized.

294 palomino  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:54:39pm

re: #266 Milty

I could go into the evolutionary reasons why males of our species tend to be more aggressive/violent, but the effort would be wasted on you. It's just true.

Why are you trying to Magical-Balance-Fairy this issue?

This bit about the 90% -- you know this because you are a guy? Because you have read the research? Because you are aware of the bitter controversy within academia and choose to believe the gender feminists over researchers like Prof. Straus? Or just because you are convinced that it is true, for some reason, and that's it?

OK, expert, why don't you tell us what percentage of spousal murders are committed by men and what percentage by women?

295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:54:39pm

79.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

296 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:54:59pm

re: #291 Milty

I have watched Straus's lecture from the DVD of the 2008 conference. Straus lists seven methods by which feminists (his word) "hide or distort" data. Do you want me to send you actual screenshots of his slides? Will this convince you?

this is a very intriguing conversation, baby

baby, could you point me to any youtube videos you have of yourself explaining these critical issues that loom large over the quickening culture of the twenty-first century

thanks baby, I'd appreciate it

297 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:55:00pm

re: #280 Fozzie Bear

Perhaps if you have a problem with certain feminist ideas or authors, it would be best to cite those ideas or authors directly.

"Gender feminism" seems a bit to broad or ill-defined a thing to dismiss.

I'll start with an example: I personally think Andrea Dworkin and Catharine MacKinnon espoused positions which are more misandric than feminist, and as such, did damage to the feminist movement. I think their writings alienated a generation of men, and helped perpetuate a negative stereotype of feminists.

Just attacking "gender feminism" as a blanket category isn't likely to start a discussion, make a cogent point, or really, accomplish anything productive.

I was lazy. I should have linked to this. It explains how I use the term.

298 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:55:18pm

re: #289 albusteve

all those words, and look where it got you...anyway if trolls go away to soon people are pissed...if they stay around too long, people get pissed...people like the trolls, they just claim not to

I have, much to my embarrassment, come to the conclusion that this is true, myself included.

299 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:55:29pm

re: #290 imp_62

That's just a link to Straus' site.

300 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:55:56pm

re: #289 albusteve

all those words, and look where it got you...anyway if trolls go away to soon people are pissed...if they stay around too long, people get pissed...people like the trolls, they just claim not to

You kidding me? I love this guy! :D

301 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:56:07pm

re: #291 Milty

I have watched Straus's lecture from the DVD of the 2008 conference. Straus lists seven methods by which feminists (his word) "hide or distort" data. Do you want me to send you actual screenshots of his slides? Will this convince you?

Your use of the term "feminists" as a blanket category is what is causing you trouble here. Which feminists? I suspect if you drill down to the particulars, you might find some room for agreement. There are undoubtedly particular self-labeled feminists who are really just sexists. But, and this is important, if you just tar the whole group then you may just as well have made a sexist statement yourself, for what reaction it will get you.

Does that make sense?

302 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:56:24pm

re: #294 palomino

This bit about the 90% -- you know this because you are a guy? Because you have read the research? Because you are aware of the bitter controversy within academia and choose to believe the gender feminists over researchers like Prof. Straus? Or just because you are convinced that it is true, for some reason, and that's it?

OK, expert, why don't you tell us what percentage of spousal murders are committed by men and what percentage by women?

According to Straus, the breakdown in both fatalities and injuries is about 2/3 female victims and 1/3 male victims.

303 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:56:39pm

re: #302 Milty

According to Straus, the breakdown in both fatalities and injuries is about 2/3 female victims and 1/3 male victims.

do you collect swords?

304 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:56:45pm

re: #267 garhighway

I get that Al is an acquired taste, but you have to love how he:

1> Dealt with differing views in a patient and respectful way, and
2> Knew his shit on a very technical and arcane topic.

I like him. I think he is smart and funny. And I loved his book on Billo.

He's got some seriously good communication skills. He starts getting through to someone that was basically spewing TP talking points. Usually when you confront those types with an opposing viewpoint they just clam up.

305 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:56:47pm

re: #300 WindUpBird

You kidding me? I love this guy! :D

Yeah, but you're weird!
/

306 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:56:52pm

re: #298 Simply Sarah

I try to ignore them, though I fail in that endeavor at times.

307 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:57:05pm

re: #300 WindUpBird

You kidding me? I love this guy! :D

he's not bothering me a bit...I just don't pay attention

308 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:57:05pm

re: #291 Milty

Do you read a lot of Robert heinlein?

309 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:57:12pm

Not another troll bash! BBL

310 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:57:28pm

re: #301 Fozzie Bear

Your use of the term "feminists" as a blanket category is what is causing you trouble here. Which feminists? I suspect if you drill down to the particulars, you might find some room for agreement. There are undoubtedly particular self-labeled feminists who are really just sexists. But, and this is important, if you just tar the whole group then you may just as well have made a sexist statement yourself, for what reaction it will get you.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that is why I do not use the word "feminists" on its own. I used it in that quote and noted that this was Straus's usage.

311 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:57:32pm

re: #299 Sergey Romanov

That's just a link to Straus' site.

oops. Then I can honestly state that it was elsewhere lol.

312 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:57:33pm

re: #295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

79.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Nonsense! Everyone knows it's 72.54%!

313 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:58:09pm

re: #310 Milty

Yes, that is why I do not use the word "feminists" on its own. I used it in that quote and noted that this was Straus's usage.


Did you spend a lot of time on usenet arguing about Adam Smith

314 simoom  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:59:00pm

Politico:
[Link: www.politico.com...]

--A Senate Republican leadership aide emails with subject line “Gang of Six”: “Background guidance: The President killed any chance of its success by 1) Embracing it. 2) Hailing the fact that it increases taxes. 3) Saying it mirrors his own plan.”

Paraphrasing Senate Republican leadership aide: "Yes, we are in fact a bunch of 8-year-olds over here."

315 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:59:19pm

re: #224 Milty

The very elite among you might want to read this. And watch the video too, if you can handle it.

OK. Who is that man in the video?

316 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 1:59:48pm

re: #299 Sergey Romanov

That's just a link to Straus' site.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] here ya go

317 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:00:16pm

re: #309 Naso Tang

Not another troll bash! BBL

But it can be a good community and team building exercise!

318 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:00:57pm

I dunno. Looks like Charles Manson to me.

Youtube Video
319 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:02:24pm

re: #316 imp_62

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] here ya go

Thanks, but it's also just a link to INN. Milty doesn't say he is G.R. or am I missing something? Gus?

320 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:03:09pm

Someone came into this thread, looked at the topic, and then said in a Peter Griffin voice "If you think that's bad what about this (insert trolls pet peeve non-sequitur here)!"

And 300ish posts later we are still derailed.

321 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:03:25pm

re: #319 Sergey Romanov

Thanks, but it's also just a link to INN. Milty doesn't say he is G.R. or am I missing something? Gus?

I figured it out a couple of weeks ago. Wasn't too hard.

322 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:04:43pm

re: #315 Gus 802

hahah PINK CRIME!!!


I love fat bearded guys talking about how much they hate feminism, I LOVE THEM


Arutz Sheva journalist Gil Ronen, an activist for traditional family values


lulllz

323 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:05:13pm

re: #318 Slumbering Behemoth

I dunno. Looks like Charles Manson to me.

[Video]

More like Brutus

324 Spocomptonite  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:05:43pm

re: #295 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

79.8% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

I know I made up the 90%. But seriously, who here (besides Milty the misogynist) doesn't think that males perpetrate domestic violence an order of magnitude more often than women? As a guy it doesn't bother me that my gender has a bad rap, because I know myself, know that I'm very different from those who perpetrate DV, and statistics don't define who I am. But I get the feeling that DV statistics bother Milty a lot, and perhaps that's why he's trying to MBF--so he feels better about himself as a man instead of an individual person.

325 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:06:05pm

re: #244 Milty

Man, I haven't seen someone as sad as this since Alaska Kim got scared away.

All I need to know about domestic violence is encapsulated on this page. Start on Oct 6, 1982.

326 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:06:26pm

More Gil Ronen lulz [Link: www.newsrealblog.com...]

327 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:06:44pm

re: #320 ArchangelMichael

If it's any comfort, it's because Franken exposing someone for misrepresenting the results of a study isn't too controversial a subject.

328 Simply Sarah  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:07:35pm

re: #324 Spocomptonite

I know I made up the 90%. But seriously, who here (besides Milty the misogynist) doesn't think that males perpetrate domestic violence an order of magnitude more often than women? As a guy it doesn't bother me that my gender has a bad rap, because I know myself, know that I'm very different from those who perpetrate DV, and statistics don't define who I am. But I get the feeling that DV statistics bother Milty a lot, and perhaps that's why he's trying to MBF--so he feels better about himself as a man instead of an individual person.

Milty the Misogynist has a nice ring to it.

329 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:08:18pm

re: #258 Gus 802

Gil Ronen

Islamic Feminism


?

330 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:08:24pm

re: #326 WindUpBird

More Gil Ronen lulz [Link: www.newsrealblog.com...]

Don't read too much. You might get to the parts where he equates "gender feminism" to treason of sorts. Or an act against national security.

331 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:08:25pm

Witch hunt!!! Vicious, ideological witch hunt!!!

Youtube Video
332 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:08:29pm

re: #320 ArchangelMichael

Someone came into this thread, looked at the topic, and then said in a Peter Griffin voice "If you think that's bad what about this (insert trolls pet peeve non-sequitur here)!"

And 300ish posts later we are still derailed.

Everyone is pretty much on board with Focus on the Family being a bunch of sheet-wearing gutbags who drink their own bathwater :D


So when a beardo misogynist comes into the thread, hey look, novelty

333 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:08:31pm

re: #319 Sergey Romanov

Thanks, but it's also just a link to INN. Milty doesn't say he is G.R. or am I missing something? Gus?

re: #319 Sergey Romanov

It's the post that led folks here to make the connection. Me? Don't really care one way or t'other.

334 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:08:44pm

Nobody puts Baby in the corner.

Youtube Video
335 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:09:00pm

re: #330 Gus 802

Don't read too much. You might get to the parts where he equates "gender feminism" to treason of sorts. Or an act against national security.

He should probably quit equating hamburgers with his mouth, based on that video

336 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:09:05pm

re: #325 wlewisiii

Ok, so here's the link that didn't paste before.

[Link: boltonrefugehouse.org...]

337 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:09:38pm

re: #335 WindUpBird

He should probably quit equating hamburgers with his mouth, based on that video

Hey! I'm a fat bearded guy too. ;)

338 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:09:56pm

re: #321 Gus 802

I figured it out a couple of weeks ago. Wasn't too hard.

OK, if it is indeed Gil Ronen, and I haven't seen proof but I'm trusting Gus's word, then he is described as an Arutz Sheva "journalist".

Arutz Sheva is openly Kahanist. Kahanists are fascists. Arutz Sheva people also welcomed the Russian Hitler-lovers a few days ago.

It all fits.

339 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:10:12pm

re: #324 Spocomptonite

I'm guessing 90% is low.

But, it's only a guess.

340 jvic  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:10:31pm

Since the video clip is so short, my understanding of the issues may be incomplete, but here it is:

1. The HHS study shows that children raised in nuclear families, i.e. households with two married parents, have better developmental outcomes than children raised in various other scenarios. Apparently unknowingly, Minnery makes two implicit assumptions based on that study.

a. He assumes that the results for two-married-parent households can be taken to be the same as the results for heterosexual marriages. Given the small number of same-sex marriages relative to heterosexual marriages, that seems reasonable if the general population was randomly sampled. Franken is correct in calling Minnery out on the definitions, but IMO he is also playing 'Gotcha!': presumably Franken is smart enough to know that the definitions are not where the real error is.

b. Minnery also assumes that, because the predominantly heterosexual marriages yield better outcomes than any other category in the study, they would yield better outcomes than same-sex marriages. Blaaaat! Completely unwarranted. Thanks for playing. There's the door.

c. Apparently the HHS study neither proves nor disproves the point that Minnery claims it makes.

2. Studies to settle the point should examine adoptions in same-sex families versus adoptions in heterosexual ones with control for things like marital status, household wealth, etc. If such studies haven't been done, they should be. People on either side in the debate who oppose such studies rouse my skepticism.

341 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:10:38pm

re: #332 WindUpBird

Everyone is pretty much on board with Focus on the Family being a bunch of sheet-wearing gutbags who drink their own bathwater :D

So when a beardo misogynist comes into the thread, hey look, novelty

I know but it was such a tangent I felt like Christopher Walken showed up and said "Frankenstein never scared me, but marsupials do."

342 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:10:46pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Hey! I'm a fat bearded guy too. ;)

hahahahahah let me have my fun! :D


some of my best friends are men of larger carriage

343 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:11:04pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Hey! I'm a fat bearded guy too. ;)

Does that mean you are an overweight gay man with a lesbian girlfriend, pretending to be in a straight relationship? Or are you just a fat guy with a beard?
;]

344 palomino  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:11:08pm

re: #302 Milty

According to Straus, the breakdown in both fatalities and injuries is about 2/3 female victims and 1/3 male victims.

OK, so men are "only" twice as likely to kill their spouses. How does this undermine womens studies programs? Or, more to the point, how does this contradict the overall critique of anti-gay groups like FOF (which was the original thread topic)?

345 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:11:26pm

re: #341 ArchangelMichael

I know but it was such a tangent I felt like Christopher Walken showed up and said "Frankenstein never scared me, but marsupials do."

andjkhdkjhdkdjh lol forever

346 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:11:39pm

re: #328 Simply Sarah

Milty the Misogynist has a nice ring to it.

I stand by twaddling prat.

347 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:12:04pm

re: #346 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Actually, more like prattling twat.

348 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:12:36pm

re: #332 WindUpBird

Everyone is pretty much on board with Focus on the Family being a bunch of sheet-wearing gutbags who drink their own bathwater :D

LOL, you're on fire!

349 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:12:40pm

re: #338 Sergey Romanov

OK, if it is indeed Gil Ronen, and I haven't seen proof but I'm trusting Gus's word, then he is described as an Arutz Sheva "journalist".

Arutz Sheva is openly Kahanist. Kahanists are fascists. Arutz Sheva people also welcomed the Russian Hitler-lovers a few days ago.

It all fits.

I was gonna ask what sorta wierdass Israel energy this guy is coming from, because it seems to be a specific ultra-right-wing angle

350 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:13:15pm

re: #347 imp_62

Actually, more like prattling twat.

Maybe his AC broke down again and he's all hot and bothered.

351 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:14:00pm

re: #341 ArchangelMichael

I know but it was such a tangent I felt like Christopher Walken showed up and said "Frankenstein never scared me, but marsupials do."

just the guy we need at this exact moment....

Youtube Video
352 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:14:33pm

re: #348 goddamnedfrank

do it for them

353 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:14:48pm

Setting the record straight almost impossible

The effect of misinformation on memory and reasoning cannot be completely eliminated, even after it has been corrected numerous times, say Australian psychologists.

Assistant Professor Ullrich Ecker and colleagues from The University of Western Australia outline their findings in a recent article published in Psychonomic Bulletin and Review .

Ecker says this effect, known as 'continued influence effect of misinformation', occurs even if the retraction itself is understood, believed, and remembered.

In their latest set of experiments, which builds on previous research, the researchers manipulated the strength of both the provided misinformation and the later retraction.

Repetition was used to more strongly encode the misinformation. Cognitive loading, when attention is divided between two tasks, was used to weaken or dilute the messages.

Hey, repeat a lie often enough...

Something the goons at FotF, AFA, and other religious hate groups are very good at.

354 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:15:29pm

re: #352 WindUpBird

do it for them

I knew it.

355 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:15:36pm

So Milty! What kind of books do you read? What's your favorite color? Do like to go for longs walks on the beach? I do. What's your favorite food? Jaguar or Chevy?

356 William of Orange  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:15:41pm

Word salad of the day....

357 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:16:51pm

re: #356 William of Orange

Word salad of the day...

Outstanding. Truly.

358 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:17:10pm

re: #341 ArchangelMichael

I know but it was such a tangent I felt like Christopher Walken showed up and said "Frankenstein never scared me, but marsupials do."

This thread needs more cowbell.

359 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:17:56pm

I am so torn right now. My son really needs his family to be with him, he is so stressed, and I can't justify taking any time off work. My daughter-in-law's family is IN AUSTRALIA. They are all alone.

The good news is, I have been reading about this condition, and it's nothing to get freaked out about, and there are specialists who can perform surgery, but only when the child is older.

360 researchok  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:18:51pm

100 degrees here right now.

111 heat index

361 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:19:35pm

re: #359 Alouette

I am so torn right now. My son really needs his family to be with him, he is so stressed, and I can't justify taking any time off work. My daughter-in-law's family is IN AUSTRALIA. They are all alone.

The good news is, I have been reading about this condition, and it's nothing to get freaked out about, and there are specialists who can perform surgery, but only when the child is older.

None of my business, but I realized recently that if you would take the time for a funeral (G-d forbid) then take the time for the living.

362 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:19:58pm

re: #360 researchok

100 degrees here right now.

111 heat index

That leaves us with no other choice but to break out the beer and start playing the banjo.

//

363 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:20:05pm

re: #354 Sergey Romanov

I knew it.

I don't hang out on 4chan, I just borrow their macros :D Kids move too damn fast!

364 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:20:40pm

re: #360 researchok

100 degrees here right now.

111 heat index

103 in ABQ
(dry heat)

365 Locker  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:21:12pm

Al Franken is the man. I'd love to see Franken/Warren (Elizabeth) presidental ticket or even a Warren/Franken. Pie in the sky I know but hey... keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars (Thanks Casey).

366 William of Orange  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:21:33pm

More trouble for Minnery, Patrick Leahy gets him to admit that the DOMA act discriminates children.

Focus On the Family Rep Forced to Admit That DOMA Discriminates Against Children



Richard Lawson— Vermont's half-blind old warhorse senator Patrick Leahy, known hero, is holding hearings today about the Defense of Marriage Act, and during testimony he got conservative group Focus on the Family's Vice President of Public Policy Tom Minnery to admit that the 1996 law cheats children.

Because DOMA denies same-sex marriage on a federal level, children of gay parents who are legally married in their state are denied certain benefits and protections that children of married straight parents automatically receive. A clear injustice done by DOMA that has nothing to do with who's gay and who isn't. So clear, in fact, that the dogged Leahy got Minnery to admit it. It's fun to look at the slight change of expression on Minnery's face as he realizes he's just placed himself, and the entire anti-marriage equality cause, in opposition to innocent children, the very voiceless mass of tiny sufferers FotF and its ilk are always crowing about protecting. Oops!

Via Gawker.

Watch the video!

Youtube Video
367 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:01pm

re: #347 imp_62

Actually, more like prattling twat.

Twaddling - trivial, feeble, silly, or tedious talk or writing.
Prat - an incompetent or ineffectual person

368 researchok  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:10pm

re: #362 Gus 802

That leaves us with no other choice but to break out the beer and start playing the banjo.

//

fuck the banjo.

And, I have to go out again later on.

369 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:16pm

re: #365 Locker

Al Franken is the man. I'd love to see Franken/Warren (Elizabeth) presidental ticket or even a Warren/Franken. Pie in the sky I know but hey... keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars (Thanks Casey).

I don't know if I would vote for the ticket, but I would watch a few minutes of the stolen sex tape.

370 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:35pm

re: #367 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Twaddling - trivial, feeble, silly, or tedious talk or writing.
Prat - an incompetent or ineffectual person

butthole- a butthole

371 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:41pm

re: #363 WindUpBird

I don't hang out on 4chan, I just borrow their macros :D Kids move too damn fast!

I never, ever understood 4chan or any other imageboard.

372 researchok  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:42pm

re: #364 albusteve

103 in ABQ
(dry heat)

103 is hot as hell, dry heat or not.

373 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:22:47pm

re: #344 palomino

OK, so men are "only" twice as likely to kill their spouses. How does this undermine womens studies programs? Or, more to the point, how does this contradict the overall critique of anti-gay groups like FOF (which was the original thread topic)?

To your first question:

What Straus and other participants in that conference (many of whom are women) were saying is that while women suffer twice the injuries and deaths, still when one looks at the overall patterns of violence, the picture gender feminists paint is false.

The gender feminists are in the business of waging war against men and they do this by demonizing them. Statistics that are "black and white" demonize men. Statistics that have more gray to them do not, and make it possible to treat the problem more level headedly and rationally. The experts in that conference say that by skewing statistics and shaping policy based on that skewed data, the gender feminists make it difficult to treat the women who do need help the most.

When one examines perpetrators of violence toward children, by the way, it is women who perpetrate twice the violence that men do. The reply to this is usually to say that women spend more time with children, but some would say that that is just an excuse for violence against children.

The problem is demonization. Demonization of men allows gender feminists to pass draconian anti-male legislation and to create an atmosphere of distrust between the sexes. I contend that this can be fatal to a civilization, because the male-female bond is the most basic bond there is, and the family is society's fundamental building block.

374 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:23:06pm

The transformation of conservative ideology into a religion is nearly complete.

It's an interesting read, check it out.

375 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:23:08pm

re: #367 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Twaddling - trivial, feeble, silly, or tedious talk or writing.
Prat - an incompetent or ineffectual person

Prattle: Foolish or inconsequential talk
Twat: Well, ....

376 Locker  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:23:13pm

re: #369 imp_62

I don't know if I would vote for the ticket, but I would watch a few minutes of the stolen sex tape.

I don't like them that much...

377 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:23:44pm

re: #371 Sergey Romanov

I never, ever understood 4chan or any other imageboard.

I came to 4chan for the pron. I stayed...

Well, actually I didn't stay after that.

378 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:24:01pm

re: #372 researchok

103 is hot as hell, dry heat or not.

no monsoon to cool us off yet...no monsoon last year either

379 Locker  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:24:54pm

re: #373 Milty

Ok man your argument is your argument but I'm gonna have to say that using the phrase 'fatal to a civilization' pretty much lets the air out of your entire previous argument.

380 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:25:02pm

re: #377 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I came to 4chan ...

Captain Obvious is in da house!
lol

381 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:26:17pm

re: #373 Milty

To your first question:

What Straus and other buttholes in that conference (many of whom are butthole women) were saying is that while butthole women suffer twice the injuries and deaths, still when one looks at the overall patterns of violence, the picture gender buttholes paint is false.

The butthole gender feminists are in the business of waging butthole war against butthole men and they do this by demonizing them. Statistics that are "black and white" demonize men. Statistics that have more butthole to them do not, and make it possible to treat the butthole more level headedly and rationally. The experts in that conference say that by skewing buttholes and shaping policy based on that skewed data, the gender buttholes make it difficult to treat the buttholes who do need help the most.

When one examines perpetrators of butthole violence toward butthole children, by the way, it is women who perpetrate twice the butthole violence that men do. The reply to this is usually to say that women spend more time with butthole children, but some would say that that is just an excuse for violence against butthole children.

The problem is butthole demonization. Demonization of men allows gender feminists to pass draconian butthole anti-male legislation and to create an atmosphere of butthole distrust between butthole the sexes. I contend that this can be fatal to a butthole civilization, butthole because the male-female butthole bond is the most basic bond there is, and the butthole family is society's fundamental butthole building block.

i couldn't agree more

382 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:26:29pm

re: #365 Locker

Al Franken is the man. I'd love to see Franken/Warren (Elizabeth) presidental ticket or even a Warren/Franken. Pie in the sky I know but hey... keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars (Thanks Casey).

I admire Franken for trying to be tough-minded about standards of proof, and trying to be in-depth about what data says; I don't envy him that task, it's an uphill battle at the best of time and doubtful exponentially harder when your audience has incentive and commitment to obfuscate.

383 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:27:12pm

re: #344 palomino

As for your second question: the reason I posted is that when Al Franken exposes a conservative fiddling with stats he gets a post on LGF, and yet there is much more systematic lying going on in a related field, but that does not get any coverage on LGF.

384 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:27:13pm

re: #291 Milty

I have watched Straus's lecture from the DVD of the 2008 conference. Straus lists seven methods by which feminists (his word) "hide or distort" data. Do you want me to send you actual screenshots of his slides? Will this convince you?

I assume you're referencing

30 years research on partner violence: two of the denials that block using key evidence to improve prevention and treatment. Paper presented at the conference on From Ideology to Inclusion: Evidence-Based Policy and Intervention in Domestic Violence, sponsored by the National Family Violence Legislative Resource Center

The transcription of which can be found at [Link: pubpages.unh.edu...] .

If so, I highly recommend you pull the bias blinkers off and look at it again. SOME feminists did, indeed, do this. Not all. Further, he does not solely accuse feminists. Dr. Murray's big field of the last decade and a half has been spanking. While (as he notes) in one case it was a feminist push to stop one spanking paper, in general it has been an entirely different group who've used the seven methods listed to block his papers.

I highly recommend reading the article, particularly the section which begins on page 22 of the linked transcription, headed WHAT UNDERLIES THE DENIAL AND THE BIASED PRESS COVERAGE OF PARTNER VIOLENCE AND SPANKING? I will quote the headings as it reiterates the points I made earlier, pointing out that ONE is "feminists" (it's also one of the lesser causes):

Men Predominate In Almost All Other Crimes
Male Predominance In Police Statistics On Partner Violence
Women Injured More And Fear More
Overshadowed By Ending Cultural Norms Tolerating Male Violence
Gender Stereotype
Evidence Not Available To The Public
Difficulty Of Correcting False Information
Focus On Extreme Cases
Defense Of Feminist Theory
Protecting Services And Avoiding Harm To Women Victims

The problem in a nutshell is that you are cherry picking. You have taken some facts and are presenting them as the entirety of the same. I do not know if you are doing so knowingly, or if your cultural/developmental history has created a blindspot such that you do not see it. Either way, you're wrong.

385 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:27:27pm

re: #381 WindUpBird

why u killin me dood

386 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:28:01pm

re: #379 Locker

Ok man your argument is your argument but I'm gonna have to say that using the phrase 'fatal to a civilization' pretty much lets the air out of your entire previous argument.

everyone already knows that Twitter will induce civilization's end

388 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:29:38pm

re: #380 imp_62

Captain Obvious is in da house!
lol

And then I learned what a trap was...
/

389 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:30:11pm

re: #388 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And then I learned what a trap was...
/

A trap-trap or a 4chan trap?

390 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:30:19pm

Screw it. I'm going to get some beer, ice, and cigarettes. BBL

391 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:30:22pm

re: #373 Milty

You and Allen West would get along famously.

Clearly gender feminism is a global, civilization threatening problem - if only I could uncover any evidence of my persecution whatsoever.

I have to go home now and confront my wife about her agenda.

Do I need the / ?

392 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:30:37pm

re: #383 Milty

As for your second question: the reason I posted is that when Al Franken exposes a conservative fiddling with stats he gets a post on LGF, and yet there is much more systematic lying going on in a related field, but that does not get any coverage on LGF.

because it's boring...we're into race cars, beer, and football

393 Locker  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:31:20pm

re: #381 WindUpBird

CTRL+H is a killer. I love it.

394 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:32:30pm

re: #391 Coracle

You and Allen West would get along famously.

Clearly gender feminism is a global, civilization threatening problem - if only I could uncover any evidence of my persecution whatsoever.

I have to go home now and confront my wife about her agenda.

Do I need the / ?

Don't come whining to us if she beats you senseless.

395 Locker  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:33:10pm

re: #391 Coracle

You and Allen West would get along famously.

Clearly gender feminism is a global, civilization threatening problem - if only I could uncover any evidence of my persecution whatsoever.

I have to go home now and confront my wife about her agenda.

Do I need the / ?

Ahaha this is hilarious because I was just reading some more of Allen West's dorkery on thinkprogress and for a minute I thought.. "I wonder if Milty is Allen West's sockpuppet?". Outstanding.

396 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:33:38pm

re: #392 albusteve

because it's boring...we're into race cars, beer, and football


do wagons count

397 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:34:02pm

re: #384 kirkspencer

I assume you're referencing

The transcription of which can be found at [Link: pubpages.unh.edu...] .

If so, I highly recommend you pull the bias blinkers off and look at it again. SOME feminists did, indeed, do this. Not all. Further, he does not solely accuse feminists. Dr. Murray's big field of the last decade and a half has been spanking. While (as he notes) in one case it was a feminist push to stop one spanking paper, in general it has been an entirely different group who've used the seven methods listed to block his papers.

I highly recommend reading the article, particularly the section which begins on page 22 of the linked transcription, headed WHAT UNDERLIES THE DENIAL AND THE BIASED PRESS COVERAGE OF PARTNER VIOLENCE AND SPANKING? I will quote the headings as it reiterates the points I made earlier, pointing out that ONE is "feminists" (it's also one of the lesser causes):

The problem in a nutshell is that you are cherry picking. You have taken some facts and are presenting them as the entirety of the same. I do not know if you are doing so knowingly, or if your cultural/developmental history has created a blindspot such that you do not see it. Either way, you're wrong.

Kirk, thanks for finding that transcription. I think if you read it a bit more closely you will see that I have not misrepresented what Straus said.

I do not think it is fair to say Prof. Straus's primary research focus is on
spanking. Look at the title of his presentation: he has been the top expert on DV, including IPV -- intimate partner violence -- for decades.

Please go over his list of seven methods by which data is distorted. You will find them interesting. They include false allegations of abuse filed against Straus himself.

398 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:35:30pm

re: #389 imp_62

A trap-trap or a 4chan trap?

Yes...

399 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:37:26pm

re: #396 WindUpBird


do wagons count

certainly...speed comes in all shapes and sizes, even trucks...
[Link: nonsek.com...]

400 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:37:38pm

Pawlenty pulled from general poll after sinking too low


In a sign that former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty’s campaign is still struggling, Public Policy Polling announced Monday night that Texas Gov. Rick Perry will replace Pawlenty in general election polling match-ups against Pres. Barack Obama.

Pawlenty will still be included in the organization’s Republican primary polls, but his removal from this company’s general election poll match-ups bodes badly for Pawlenty, who has faltered in recent polls, leading some observers to speculate that his campaign is sinking.

401 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:38:11pm

re: #399 albusteve

that thing looks like it could eat planets, awesome :D

402 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:38:48pm

re: #400 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pawlenty pulled from general poll after sinking too low

he's booked at Marcia's Salon tomorrow...he'll be back

403 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:39:34pm

Religious bigot tries his impersonation of Comic Book Guy.

Youtube Video

Worst. Demagogue. Evar.

404 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:39:58pm

re: #401 WindUpBird

that thing looks like it could eat planets, awesome :D

rat rods...the latest new retro gig...$3k and off you go

405 BongCrodny  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:42:29pm

Enough with the gender feminists!

Let's take a break with a Fender gymnast instead.

Dick Dale - Miserlou

Youtube Video
406 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:43:50pm

re: #373 Milty

I am beginning to think you have had a negative experience or experiences with members of the female gender.

407 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:43:56pm

re: #397 Milty


How about we just quote from the paper?


The exception to gender symmetry is that the adverse effects of being a victim of PV are much greater for women than for men. This can be considered a difference in context, but the fact that adverse effects are consequences rather than causes of PV needs to be kept in mind Attacks by men cause more injury (both physical and psychological), more deaths, and more fear. In addition, women are more often economically trapped in a violent relationship than men because women continue to earn less than men, and because when a marriage ends,
women have custodial responsibility for children at least 80% of the time. The greater adverse effect on women is an extremely important difference, and it indicates the need to continue to provide more services for female victims of PV than for male victims.
408 wrenchwench  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:45:12pm

re: #405 BongCrodny

Enough with the gender feminists!

Let's take a break with a Fender gymnast instead.

Dick Dale - Miserlou

[Video]

I swear that looks like a young Al Franken on bass.

409 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:45:22pm

re: #406 wrenchwench

I am beginning to think you have had a negative experience or experiences with members of the female gender.

so have I...shit happens
it will all be in my next book

410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:47:00pm

This surprised me.

411 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:47:29pm

re: #409 albusteve

so have I...shit happens
it will all be in my next book

Will the book be about anyone interesting?

412 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:48:00pm

re: #405 BongCrodny

Enough with the gender feminists!

Let's take a break with a Fender gymnast instead.

Dick Dale - Miserlou

[Video]

the original upsidedown guy

413 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:48:12pm

re: #409 albusteve

so have I...shit happens
it will all be in my next book

Steve's tell-all book, available in your local bookstores this Christmas. Reserve your copy today!

//

414 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:48:38pm

re: #411 Naso Tang

Will the book be about anyone interesting?

LOL!
good one

415 BongCrodny  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:48:52pm

re: #408 wrenchwench

I swear that looks like a young Al Franken on bass.


Son of a gun, it does!

It also looks like he's not even playing the thing, just standing there to fill up the screen or something.

416 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:49:53pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This surprised me.

it shouldn't....he's ripped BO many times

417 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:50:01pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This surprised me.

Meh - another rich guy who thinks money has made him intelligent and interesting.

418 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:50:10pm

re: #397 Milty

Kirk, thanks for finding that transcription. I think if you read it a bit more closely you will see that I have not misrepresented what Straus said.

I do not think it is fair to say Prof. Straus's primary research focus is on
spanking. Look at the title of his presentation: he has been the top expert on DV, including IPV -- intimate partner violence -- for decades.

Please go over his list of seven methods by which data is distorted. You will find them interesting. They include false allegations of abuse filed against Straus himself.

But you have.

Your argument is that it is all equal, and all the suppression is due to feminists. That is not what the paper says. Instead as I've already noted, while DV initiation is equal, consequence is unequal.

Again, it's your insistence on (implied) all and only to which I'm objecting. Well, that and the insulting and provocative speech with which you raise your points.

Dr. Straus says that Feminists were a major part of initial resistance, and that feminist theory is one of the reasons resistance still exists, but he does not say it was the sole reason nor does he say it is the major or sole reason today. Further, he iterates that while initiation is equal, women suffer greater consequence.

And, finally, your last paragraph doesn't change my point either. His initial focus was IPV, but the last fifteen years of papers have been dominated by objecting to spanking.

419 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:50:14pm

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This surprised me.


All he does is yammer in a vague fashion, giving no actual specifics. That's not so surprising, he's a pretty kooky tycoon.

420 sagehen  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:50:43pm

Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined


"It is a question that, I think, is worthy of serious consideration: Should we take steps to avoid a crippling, decades-long depression that would lead to disastrous consequences on a worldwide scale? Or should we not do that?" asked House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA), adding that arguments could be made for both sides,

421 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:51:05pm

re: #407 Obdicut

How about we just quote from the paper?

Fine, as long as you read the rest of it too. I am not denying male violence, but I do not accept the demonization of men or the war against men, which is also a war against family and children.

422 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:51:57pm

re: #417 imp_62

Meh - another rich guy who thinks money has made him intelligent and interesting.

yeah, what would he know about finance that BO hasn't already forgotten?

423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:52:01pm

re: #419 Obdicut

he's a pretty kooky tycoon


Who's a Democrat and donates a lot of money.

424 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:52:03pm

re: #419 Obdicut

All he does is yammer in a vague fashion, giving no actual specifics. That's not so surprising, he's a pretty kooky tycoon.

koocoon?
tykook?

425 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:52:12pm

re: #421 Milty

Fine, as long as you read the rest of it too. I am not denying male violence, but I do not accept the demonization of men or the war against men, which is also a war against family and children.

aaand the blinders are back on. I'm done.

426 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:53:01pm

re: #417 imp_62

Meh - another rich guy who thinks money has made him intelligent and interesting.

I like this quote:

The guy keeps making speeches about redistribution and maybe we ought to do something to businesses that don’t invest, their holding too much money. We haven’t heard that kind of talk except from pure socialists.


Yeah, like Teddy Roosevelt, that evil socialist!

427 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:54:52pm

re: #421 Milty

Fine, as long as you read the rest of it too. I am not denying male violence, but I do not accept the demonization of men or the war against men, which is also a war against family and children.

I've read it before.

If your points are so strong, why do you constantly lie?

And are you a Kahanist, by the way?

428 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:54:59pm

re: #418 kirkspencer

But you have.

Your argument is that it is all equal, and all the suppression is due to feminists. That is not what the paper says. Instead as I've already noted, while DV initiation is equal, consequence is unequal.

Again, it's your insistence on (implied) all and only to which I'm objecting. Well, that and the insulting and provocative speech with which you raise your points.

Dr. Straus says that Feminists were a major part of initial resistance, and that feminist theory is one of the reasons resistance still exists, but he does not say it was the sole reason nor does he say it is the major or sole reason today. Further, he iterates that while initiation is equal, women suffer greater consequence.

And, finally, your last paragraph doesn't change my point either. His initial focus was IPV, but the last fifteen years of papers have been dominated by objecting to spanking.

You want to deny, you can deny. The rest of you can just call me fat or whatever. But maybe 0.0005% of the LGFers learned something they didn't know.

429 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:55:16pm

A miracle. Impassible has happened. Fascist Fuck Fawstin reached a new low:

Image: Returning-to-1967-4-NRB.png

430 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:55:21pm

re: #426 Obdicut

I like this quote:


Yeah, like Teddy Roosevelt, that evil socialist!

Not to even mention the vast sums pumped into the banking system through near-zero interest rates - money that does not seem to get lent at any particular clip. Don't see a lot of complaints about that out of Congress.

431 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:56:07pm

re: #429 Sergey Romanov

(That 20-sec-after editing feature would still be handy after all.)

432 BongCrodny  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:56:51pm

re: #420 sagehen

Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined

"It is a question that, I think, is worthy of serious consideration: Should we take steps to avoid a crippling, decades-long depression that would lead to disastrous consequences on a worldwide scale? Or should we not do that?"


This quote is really awesome if you read it in the voice of Richard Libertini's General Garcia from The In-Laws.

433 sagehen  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:56:52pm

re: #428 Milty

You want to deny, you can deny. The rest of you can just call me fat or whatever. But maybe 0.0005% of the LGFers learned something they didn't know.

I bet you're one of those guys who thinks Robin Givens punching Mike Tyson was equally as bad as Mike Tyson punching Robin Givens. "Spousal violence, it's just the same! Equal and fair combat between a husband and wife!!"

434 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:57:17pm

re: #421 Milty

Fine, as long as you read the rest of it too. I am not denying male violence, but I do not accept the demonization of men or the war against men, which is also a war against family and children.

Lol you're in some war against the planet because some woman told you the word "no".

You are the worst male-gender evangelist, ever.

435 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:59:10pm

They're coming for our mens, familiys, and childrens!!!

436 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:59:17pm

re: #433 sagehen

I bet you're one of those guys who thinks Robin Givens punching Mike Tyson was equally as bad as Mike Tyson punching Robin Givens. "Spousal violence, it's just the same! Equal and fair combat between a husband and wife!!"

Funny how badly all of you seem to need to pigeonhole me and figure out what category of bad people to put me in. I guess the alternative would be to actually deal with research etc. Like Franken did.

437 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:59:31pm

Tea Party Nation sued for cancelling conventions


On Monday Venetian Casino Resort, LLC., filed suit against Tea Party Nation Corporation of Franklin, Tenn., alleging the group owes $642,144 for canceling a conservative conclave last year.

The event, which had been scheduled for July 14-18, 2010, was first postponed until October and ultimately canceled... According to a contract attached to the complaint, the reservation included an agreement by Tea Party Nation to pay the resort $579,148 in the event of a cancellation, of which the resort alleges the group still owes $554,148. An 18 percent interest charge added $87,996 to the amount the resort wants to collect.

438 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 2:59:38pm

re: #421 Milty

Fine, as long as you read the rest of it too. I am not denying male violence, but I do not accept the demonization of men or the war against men, which is also a war against family and children.

You are so full of shit. Nobody is demonizing men and waging war against men.

439 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:01:11pm

re: #422 albusteve

yeah, what would he know about finance that BO hasn't already forgotten?

The guy has built his gambling and hotel business with borrowed money. The only thing Steve Wynn ever learned about finance is the word "leverage".

440 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:01:17pm

re: #438 Alouette

You are so full of shit. Nobody is demonizing men and waging war against men.

Well, Christians are, but only against the gay ones.

441 engineer cat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:01:19pm

When religious right spokesmen quote “studies” to support their bigoted anti-gay positions, it’s always a good idea to go to the original source and check what they’re saying

arguing with wingnuts over the years, i've found it's pretty reliable that any source they cite will turn out, upon reading, to actually contradict what they are saying

similarly, time and time again i've read posts on right wing blogs where they say that such and such an article "proves" something, with pretty much the same results as above when you actually take the time to read it

442 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:01:58pm

re: #438 Alouette

You are so full of shit. Nobody is demonizing men and waging war against men.

Have you met my mother-in-law?
/

443 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:01:58pm

re: #436 Milty

Funny how badly all of you seem to need to pigeonhole me and figure out what category of bad people to put me in. I guess the alternative would be to actually deal with research etc. Like Franken did.

Boo hoo, someone said something unflattering about violent men.

This means warrrrrrr!

/crymeariver

444 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:02:32pm

re: #438 Alouette

Are you blind? They're doing it right here!
///

445 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:03:13pm

War on men - was that after the war on Christmas or before it?

446 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:04:10pm

re: #427 Obdicut

Oh, this guy's one of them? I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be happy about me or CuriousLurker.

447 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:04:16pm

re: #438 Alouette

You are so full of shit. Nobody is demonizing men and waging war against men.

The founder of one of the world's first women's shelters disagrees.

448 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:07:58pm

If a group of leading researchers in DV get together for a conference named "From Ideology to Inclusion" -- maybe you might want to think about that title -- and devote the conference to saying that it is time to stop demonizing men and that their science has been politically hijacked in order to "prove" the theory of patriarchy -- is that something that should concern intelligent people? I think so.

449 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:09:26pm

re: #447 Milty

Cripes. You're like an evangelist. Make that a salesman trying to reach his quota for the end of the season.

450 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:10:05pm

re: #447 Milty

Oh look, it's from the Daily Fail.

Get a life. I can guess that most of this anger you have is because women (justly) ignore you. You give me gender a bad name, you sexist pig.

451 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:10:44pm

CAN"T YOU PEOPLE SEE! IT"S THE GENDER FEMINISTS THAT ARE DESTROYING THE FAMILY!!11TY DESTROYING THE WORLD!!11TY DESTROYING THE UNIVERSE!!11TY

452 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:12:58pm

I have to admit even though I am by and large a liberal democrat, I was skeptical of Franken's run for the senate. But he's taken the position he was elected to very seriously since he was elected and it's stuff like this that proves that. Glad he went after the Focus on the Family tool. I am sick of them using the name of family to justify homophobia and discrimination of gay people. Gay people have families too.

453 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:13:12pm

Mind you, these are not professors from right wing or religious universities, they are enlightened and intelligent folks just like you all. Many of them are women -- bona fide members of the nonviolent sex. They are neither fat nor bearded, yet they felt the need to speak at this conference and felt that it was a historic moment. The keynote speaker was Erin Pizzey. And they held another conference in 2009, too. But you LGFers know better than them professors. Good on you.

454 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:13:25pm

re: #448 Milty

If you were even remotely interested in informing and educating people, you wouldn't come in swinging fists and knocking over tables like a drunken prick.

But you're not here to be informative. You're here to goad, bait, and insult.

455 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:15:12pm

Milty aside for a moment, there certainly are cases of DV with male victims. There are also extremists among feminists, as in any movement or religion. But there is no sense in debating with someone who has decided to take bits and bobs of information and data and paste them together into some sort of bogeyman to scare the average male for reasons of his very own.

456 jaunte  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:16:06pm

Erin Pizzey:

"It's not that I'm saying women are as abusive as men; the point is, it's not men and women at all. It's anybody who comes from that kind of background.

"If you come from a dysfunctional, violent and sexually abusive family, how do you learn? Therefore, domestic violence can't be a gender issue, it can't be just men, because we girls - and I was from one of those families - are just as badly affected." So women are as violent as men? "Well, we tend to implode, our violence is turned in on ourselves or is covert - men explode and hurt others." So it's not exactly the same? "It's violence," Pizzey says stubbornly, and goes on to tell a story of a woman she knows who bullies her husband with domestic chores.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

457 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:16:17pm

re: #453 Milty

Mind you, these are not professors from right wing or religious universities, they are enlightened and intelligent folks just like you all0.000000012% of you.. Many of them are women -- bona fide members of the nonviolent sex. They are neither fat nor bearded, yet they felt the need to speak at this conference and felt that it was a historic moment. The keynote speaker was Erin Pizzey. And they held another conference in 2009, too. But you LGFers know better than them professors. Good on you.

FTFY. You must have used up all your zeros, so I lent you some of mine.

458 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:18:08pm

re: #453 Milty

Mind you, these are not professors from right wing or religious universities, they are enlightened and intelligent folks just like you all. Many of them are women -- bona fide members of the nonviolent sex. They are neither fat nor bearded, yet they felt the need to speak at this conference and felt that it was a historic moment. The keynote speaker was Erin Pizzey. And they held another conference in 2009, too. But you LGFers know better than them professors. Good on you.

Hang on. I'll come back and re-read this. Don't understand what you mean yet. First I have to go take a shit. BRB

//

459 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:18:26pm

re: #453 Milty

You're not representing the conference correctly, though.

In academia, vicious feuds are the norm, not a rarity. The dominant theory tends to have highly vituperative defenders and equally rapacious attackers. Look at Wittgenstein and Popper's colleagues and grad students.

Reading an attack on men from the enclave of gender studies-- which has incredibly minimal impact on the real world-- because the dominant theory had aggressive defenders is nutty.

But it's not as nutty as thinking that somehow this significantly spills over onto public policy. It hasn't.

460 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:18:36pm

re: #458 Gus 802

Hang on. I'll come back and re-read this. Don't understand what you mean yet. First I have to go take a shit. BRB

//

It's all the beer and cigs.

461 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:18:36pm

Woohoo! I'm making myself laugh. Heat stroke is setting in.

462 albusteve  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:18:37pm

re: #454 Slumbering Behemoth

If you were even remotely interested in informing and educating people, you wouldn't come in swinging fists and knocking over tables like a drunken prick.

But you're not here to be informative. You're here to goad, bait, and insult.

the subject sure has legs tho...people love to argue

463 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:18:48pm

re: #456 jaunte

Oh, the oppression inherent in doing one's own laundry. When will this cycle of tyranny stop?

464 Kragar  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:20:46pm

re: #463 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, the oppression inherent in doing one's own laundry. When will this cycle of tyranny stop?

I actually had to make my own sandwich last night.

WHEN WILL THIS LONG NIGHTMARE STOP?!

465 jaunte  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:20:54pm

re: #463 Slumbering Behemoth

I'll think of an answer after I mow the lawn...

466 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:21:05pm

re: #463 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, the oppression inherent in doing one's own laundry. When will this cycle of tyranny stop?

"Harold! Make your own dinner for crying out loud!"

"Why Marge. That's spousal abuse."

//

467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:22:32pm

re: #453 Milty

But you LGFers know better than them professors. Good on you.

No, we LGFers know better then *you*.

Dumb bigot.

468 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:24:42pm

You know, when I was a kid, my mom used to bully me with domestic chores like washing the dishes or cleaning my room. Won't someone think of the children that must suffer under such a misandrist gynocracy?

Youtube Video
469 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:25:16pm

re: #421 Milty

Fine, as long as you read the rest of it too. I am not denying male violence, but I do not accept the demonization of men or the war against men, which is also a war against family and children.

I didn't know you were fat.

470 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:27:55pm

re: #469 Jeff In Ohio

I didn't know you were fat.

He's waging his own private war against fried dough

the stage has been set, the pieces are in motion

471 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:28:29pm

Pizzey interview -- I recommend listening to the audio.

In summation -- since Charles truly cares about science, he should care about this issue too. Even though here, it is the "liberals" who are stifling science.

This is not astrophysics or evolutionary biology, but it is important too.

472 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:30:02pm

re: #471 Milty

Social science, dude. Not actual science.

It's an academic spat that you're blowing up into an assault on men, as if most elected officials ever gave a shit what Dworkin had to say, or what Pizzey did, either.

473 shutdown  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:30:24pm

re: #471 Milty

Pizzey interview -- I recommend listening to the audio.

In summation -- since Charles truly cares about science, he should care about this issue too. Even though here, it is the "liberals" who are stifling science.

This is not astrophysics or evolutionary biology, but it is important too.

It's really not science. It's a lot of opinions, anecdotal evidence and bad feelings carefully molded into a semblance of social science. Think Chicken McNuggets, only with men who are getting the worse of it in the court system.

474 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:32:58pm

re: #472 Obdicut

Social science, dude. Not actual science.

It's an academic spat that you're blowing up into an assault on men, as if most elected officials ever gave a shit what Dworkin had to say, or what Pizzey did, either.

I knew a guy who I used to get into internet argunments about just this sort of thing


he was always blowing his lid about how men were under attack and demonized by Tv commercials, feminists, blah blah


he was also very


very


single

475 Gus  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:35:33pm

Really strange man. Really strange.

476 blueraven  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:38:32pm

re: #463 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, the oppression inherent in doing one's own laundry. When will this cycle of tyranny stop?

OH NO! I am an abuser. Mr Blue does his own laundry. Sometimes he cooks and occasionally mops. I am so ashamed.

Then again, I occasionally cut the grass, fix the toaster, or repair a hole in the wall.

We are dysfunctional!!

477 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:38:46pm

re: #472 Obdicut

Social science, dude. Not actual science.

It's an academic spat that you're blowing up into an assault on men, as if most elected officials ever gave a shit what Dworkin had to say, or what Pizzey did, either.

I object. Social science is a science. Denying it as such is akin to saying chemistry in the 1700s wasn't science just because phlogiston was a dominant theory of the time. (nevermind Black and Lavoisier disproving the theory at the time using, duh duh DUUUH, scientific measurements.)

It's an academic spat, presenting one theorist's position (and badly at that), akin to, oh, say the battles over string and superstring theory.

478 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:47:25pm

re: #477 kirkspencer

I object. Social science is a science. Denying it as such is akin to saying chemistry in the 1700s wasn't science just because phlogiston was a dominant theory of the time.

No,it's not, it's realizing that the results from social science cannot be tested against something as constant as the physical world, and presents a lot more problems when constructing experiments to isolate out influences.

That means good social science is in some ways harder to do than physical science, but it also means any responsible social scientist hedges their stuff very carefully.

The most interesting dudes to me are the ones who straddle that line, like Sapolsky.

It's an academic spat, presenting one theorist's position (and badly at that), akin to, oh, say the battles over string and superstring theory.

Yes. Dear god, what more traditional physicists think of string theorists. They don't even consider them physicists.

479 Coracle  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:53:24pm

re: #428 Milty

You want to deny, you can deny. The rest of you can just call me fat or whatever. But maybe 0.0005% of the LGFers learned something they didn't know.

I learned not to trust anything you have to say.

480 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 3:56:51pm

re: #474 WindUpBird

I knew a guy who I used to get into internet argunments about just this sort of thing

he was always blowing his lid about how men were under attack and demonized by Tv commercials, feminists, blah blah

he was also very

very

single

OTOH, my dear husband pays lip service to the dreadful propaganda of the gender feminists, and in return, gets his meals cooked for him, and the laundry done. It's the men who aren't too strident or uppity, you know, that get ahead--they can just twist us ladies around their little finger, and they know they don't need this dreadful men's lib nonsense.

/////

481 Firstinla  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:01:18pm

re: #428 Milty

You want to deny, you can deny. The rest of you can just call me fat or whatever. But maybe 0.0005% of the LGFers learned something they didn't know.

Not bragging but I've got two post-graduate degrees. One of the reasons I come to LGF is because I continue to learn. Milty, I'm sure everything YOU know you learned in kindergarten and you've learned nothing since. Your ignorance is obvious in nearly every post you've made on LGF.

482 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:17:24pm

re: #478 Obdicut

No,it's not, it's realizing that the results from social science cannot be tested against something as constant as the physical world, and presents a lot more problems when constructing experiments to isolate out influences.

That means good social science is in some ways harder to do than physical science, but it also means any responsible social scientist hedges their stuff very carefully.

The most interesting dudes to me are the ones who straddle that line, like Sapolsky.

[snipped]

That it's harder and that the isolation issues are so much more difficult does not change it being a science. It means it isn't as precise (yet, maybe) but doesn't change that so long as you're careful with your hedges and so long as you don't try to claim precision beyond the accuracy of your tools and conditions, it's a science.

As one example of what I mean, consider one small aspect of social science: the prisoner's dilemma. Games theorists analyze the optimum strategy. Social scientists analyze the expectations and the social conditions that can change the expectations.

483 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:20:48pm

re: #482 kirkspencer

That it's harder and that the isolation issues are so much more difficult does not change it being a science.

Then you and I differ on what science is.

It means it isn't as precise (yet, maybe) but doesn't change that so long as you're careful with your hedges and so long as you don't try to claim precision beyond the accuracy of your tools and conditions, it's a science.

As one example of what I mean, consider one small aspect of social science: the prisoner's dilemma. Games theorists analyze the optimum strategy. Social scientists analyze the expectations and the social conditions that can change the expectations.

Sure. I'm not saying it's not very valid and important research. I'm saying there is a huge difference between social science and physical science, with the latter being of a more fundamental nature.

484 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:21:25pm

re: #482 kirkspencer

That it's harder and that the isolation issues are so much more difficult does not change it being a science. It means it isn't as precise (yet, maybe) but doesn't change that so long as you're careful with your hedges and so long as you don't try to claim precision beyond the accuracy of your tools and conditions, it's a science.

As one example of what I mean, consider one small aspect of social science: the prisoner's dilemma. Games theorists analyze the optimum strategy. Social scientists analyze the expectations and the social conditions that can change the expectations.

I should have made my better point. Social science is at least as much "science" as medicine. The fact that it is impossible to control for every variable does not invalidate the science for those that can be controlled.

485 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:26:32pm

re: #484 kirkspencer

I should have made my better point. Social science is at least as much "science" as medicine.

Medicine certainly isn't practiced as a science, but medical research certainly is real science. You can demonstrably prove that a certain molecule causes a certain process in a cell, and that by delivering that molecule to the cell, you can get a repeatable event.

So the practice of medicine? Not science. Medical research on actual physical issues, definitely science.

The fact that it is impossible to control for every variable does not invalidate the science for those that can be controlled.

Setting up the question in the first place is even more problematic, though.

You and I just have different ideas of what 'science' is.

486 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:29:58pm

re: #483 Obdicut

Then you and I differ on what science is.

Sure. I'm not saying it's not very valid and important research. I'm saying there is a huge difference between social science and physical science, with the latter being of a more fundamental nature.

Wait. So it's the fundamental nature that determines whether it's science for you?

See, for me science is any area of study in which variables can be identified and predictions made which can be consistently validated/refuted based on the condition of those variables. The coarseness of the control or measuring device is immaterial to the definition.

487 economicsprofessor  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:32:23pm

The study, Family Structure and Children's Health in the United States, was based on data collected from 2001-2007. Gay marriage became legal in Massachusetts in November, 2003, and Connecticut followed in October 2008. Therefore any inclusion of well-being of children from nuclear (which the study defines as married ) gay families would have to be based on Massachusetts alone from 2003 to 2007. But the study makes no mention of gay, lesbian, same-sex, etc. The Think Progress site claims "The study — which Minnery cited to oppose marriage equality — actually found that children do best in two-parent households, regardless of the parents’ gender." There is no mention of gender in the study except in reference to children, not adults, from single parent homes.

Bail me out here. What I am missing?

488 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:37:58pm

re: #486 kirkspencer

Wait. So it's the fundamental nature that determines whether it's science for you?

Yes. That's actually the most common definition of science. It came about because of particular way that the language developed during the Enlightenment. It's not a slam against social science, it's just taxonomy.

See, for me science is any area of study in which variables can be identified and predictions made which can be consistently validated/refuted based on the condition of those variables. The coarseness of the control or measuring device is immaterial to the definition.

It's not the coarseness, it's the reflexiveness of it. Studying conscious behavior as a conscious being is different than studying the laws of physics as a conscious being, unless you're a Lacan fan.

489 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:41:34pm

re: #487 economicsprofessor

The study, Family Structure and Children's Health in the United States, was based on data collected from 2001-2007. Gay marriage became legal in Massachusetts in November, 2003, and Connecticut followed in October 2008. Therefore any inclusion of well-being of children from nuclear (which the study defines as married ) gay families would have to be based on Massachusetts alone from 2003 to 2007. But the study makes no mention of gay, lesbian, same-sex, etc. The Think Progress site claims "The study — which Minnery cited to oppose marriage equality — actually found that children do best in two-parent households, regardless of the parents’ gender." There is no mention of gender in the study except in reference to children, not adults, from single parent homes.

Bail me out here. What I am missing?

The fact that if the study meant to refer to heterosexual families only it would have said so.

If they had only studied hetrosexually married families in the report it would have said so don't you think?

490 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:46:52pm

re: #488 Obdicut

Yes. That's actually the most common definition of science. It came about because of particular way that the language developed during the Enlightenment. It's not a slam against social science, it's just taxonomy.

It's not the coarseness, it's the reflexiveness of it. Studying conscious behavior as a conscious being is different than studying the laws of physics as a conscious being, unless you're a Lacan fan.

Ah, babel jargon I mean taxonomy.

That's not sarc, by the way. It's a failing common to a number of fields.

491 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:52:40pm

re: #489 jamesfirecat

They very well might have only analyzed heterosexual couples-- in which case the report would not have said anything about the fitness of gay parents, and he'd be lying from a different angle.

492 kirkspencer  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:53:22pm

re: #490 kirkspencer

Ah, babel jargon I mean taxonomy.

That's not sarc, by the way. It's a failing common to a number of fields.

I called it a failing. It is and it isn't.

It is absolutely necessary within a field that everyone have a clear understanding of what is being said. Unfortunately, the Habit of the English Language* means that confusion is inevitable when speaking outside the field.

For this reason when I'm speaking to people outside my field, unless it's specifically about my field, I use the generally accepted definition. So: a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws. Of which social interaction under controlled conditions applies.

*"English: A language that lurks in dark alleys, beats up other languages and rifles through their pockets for spare vocabulary."
— James Nicol

493 Obdicut  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:56:01pm

re: #492 kirkspencer

I'm sorry, dude, but science, as commonly used, refers to the 'natural' sciences, not including social science. That's the actual way it gets used by humans. I could show you some very good social science data on that.

That last sentence was a joke.

494 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 4:56:40pm

re: #491 Obdicut

They very well might have only analyzed heterosexual couples-- in which case the report would not have said anything about the fitness of gay parents, and he'd be lying from a different angle.

Moral of the story is that the report is either incomplete or says that Gays can be just as good parents as straights.

If its the later then Mr. Franken's point is valid.

If its the former than Mr. Minnery is an even bigger jackass for trying to base any sort of legal argument on it.

495 economicsprofessor  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 5:49:55pm

According to Politico:

“Sen. Franken is right,” the lead author of the study told POLITICO. The survey did not exclude same-sex couples, said Debra L. Blackwell, Ph.D., nor did it exclude them from the “nuclear family” category provided their family met the study’s definition.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

This must mean that 100% of the gay married couples came from Massachusetts and gay/lesbian couples were NOT studied separately, but were included with opp. sex families when the numbers were averaged out.

496 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 6:39:59pm

re: #495 economicsprofessor

According to Politico:

“Sen. Franken is right,” the lead author of the study told POLITICO. The survey did not exclude same-sex couples, said Debra L. Blackwell, Ph.D., nor did it exclude them from the “nuclear family” category provided their family met the study’s definition.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

This must mean that 100% of the gay married couples came from Massachusetts and gay/lesbian couples were NOT studied separately, but were included with opp. sex families when the numbers were averaged out.

What is the point you're trying to get at?

If gays married couples have not been studied at all then the report is clearly not acceptable as proof for anything, because, well gays were not studied at all thus we can't say how they stand up to straights.

497 jamesfirecat  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 6:40:45pm

re: #496 jamesfirecat

What is the point you're trying to get at?

If gays married couples have not been studied at all then the report is clearly not acceptable as proof for anything, because, well gays were not studied at all thus we can't say how they stand up to straights.

Crap my post makes no sense at all at this point... sorry carry on, I am for fail at reading comprehension.

498 economicsprofessor  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 6:53:20pm

You are right Jamesfirecat. Because the study did not look at gay families as a separate category information specific to them gets lost in the averaging with opp. sex couples.

499 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 8:34:32pm

re: #480 SanFranciscoZionist

and also

re: #474 WindUpBird

Oops. A little bit of truth surfaces.

"Yes it is true we have set up a massive apparatus of state-abetted personal terrorism based on lies but it is smarter to just accept it, since you can't defeat us."

500 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 9:01:58pm

Basically, Western guys know that they go through life without some of the most basic human rights and without any real dignity but by and large they figure "if I fight it, I will get less sex."

This is especially true of men from the more intellectual social strata, it seems.

So most opt for the slavery as opposed to being "strident or uppity" and hope not to lose their children to the machine.

With truth and dignity lost on the personal level, there is, needless to say, even less of them left at the public and leadership levels.

It's all beautifully evil except for one thing -- society is emasculated, and other societies, which may be centuries behind economically, socially, technologically and scientifically, but are not emasculated, get the courage and motivation to sc*** your emasculated little a**es.

501 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 9:06:36pm

re: #480 SanFranciscoZionist

How about this:

OTOH, my dear Negro pays lip service to the dreadful propaganda of the Ku Klux Klan, and in return, gets his little shack, and a free day on Sabbath. It's the Negroes who aren't too strident or uppity, you know, that get ahead--they can just twist us white folk around their little finger, and they know they don't need this dreadful Negroes' lib nonsense.

502 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 9:11:42pm

re: #500 Milty

Oh, this is hilarious. Do go on telling us how white men are oppressed. Please.

503 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 9:14:10pm

That last Milty post not only makes little sense, but is patently ridiculous.

If you were going to say "some prominent feminists go way too far", i'd be right there with you, and we could talk about how crazy Dworkin et. al. are. It's definitely true that there are feminists out there who attempt to scream down any dissent from men by saying "they don't get it because they are men", or worse, that they "are oppressors frustrated by the presence of strong women". That sort of "feminism" is just sexism by another name, and I would agree that it is corrosive... to about 3 dozen men who happen to be surrounded by extreme left-wing feminists. To everybody else, 99.99999% of the population, it's a non-issue.

But seriously, to invoke the word "slavery" is absurd, and to reference perceptions of being "uppity" as applicable to men goes beyond absurd, and well into the realm of a total inversion of reality.

I have heard of women who attempt to go beyond their socially accepted station referred to as "uppity". This does happen among some of the more backward assholes out there. However, I have never in all my life heard a man referred to as "uppity" as a function of his maleness. (Blackness, yes. Maleness, no.) Never. That's just delusional.

504 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 9:21:33pm

So yeah, redirect your ire to institutional gender bias in general, and I think you'll find that that's the very thing against which the vast majority of feminists are themselves fighting.

Sexism is just the special consideration of gender above other qualities of the individual. Feminists seek to make gender an institutionally irrelevant factor. It's really fucking ironic, actually, that this argument is even occurring, when you consider that.

505 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 9:56:13pm

re: #504 Fozzie Bear

However, I have never in all my life heard a man referred to as "uppity" as a function of his maleness.

That is because you did not read post #480, in which SFZ says:

It's the men who aren't too strident or uppity, you know, that get ahead--they can just twist us ladies around their little finger, and they know they don't need this dreadful men's lib nonsense.

506 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:03:04pm
Sexism is just the special consideration of gender above other qualities of the individual.

That's right. Like a series of NYC subway ads that depict men as predators, which Prof. Linda Mills was railing against in her presentation at the 2008 Inclusion conference.

Or the Tender Years' Presumption Clause, that is still in force in Israel, that grants women automatic custody of children under age 6 in divorce, and by extension, of children of all ages.

Or tax breaks given to women in Israel. Or the fact that women retire at 62 and men at 67.

Or the fact that men in suitable physical condition are forced to serve in the army for three years + reserve duty into their forties, and cannot refuse to do combat duty, whereas women can never be forced into combat, serve only two years and hardly do any reserve duty.

507 Lidane  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:21:57pm

re: #506 Milty

Keep going, please. I'm sure next you'll start talking about how white men are emasculated by black men who might be more well endowed, and how successful career women are a threat to the patriarchy because they pay their own bills.

This is a hoot. I'm sitting here laughing as I read all this nonsense you keep posting.

508 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:27:37pm

re: #505 Milty

You're devoid of humor and that's the saddest thing of all.

509 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:32:55pm

re: #491 Obdicut

Unless he was comparing with a separate study.

510 Milty  Wed, Jul 20, 2011 10:34:56pm

re: #508 Sergey Romanov

You're devoid of humor and that's the saddest thing of all.

You got me there. I do envy feminists for their amazing sense of humor, which is world renowned. I used to know all of the stand up (sit down?) routines from the local Feminist Funny Club by heart.

511 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 1:03:06am

re: #510 Milty

You know, you would be spared half of the grief you got here if you didn't act like an embodiment of a stereotype.

512 BongCrodny  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 4:01:59am

re: #506 Milty

That's right. Like a series of NYC subway ads that depict men as predators, which Prof. Linda Mills was railing against in her presentation at the 2008 Inclusion conference.

Or the Tender Years' Presumption Clause, that is still in force in Israel, that grants women automatic custody of children under age 6 in divorce, and by extension, of children of all ages.

Or tax breaks given to women in Israel. Or the fact that women retire at 62 and men at 67.

Or the fact that men in suitable physical condition are forced to serve in the army for three years + reserve duty into their forties, and cannot refuse to do combat duty, whereas women can never be forced into combat, serve only two years and hardly do any reserve duty.


Let me translate:

"Gurls are icky."

513 Milty  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 6:03:03am

re: #511 Sergey Romanov

You know, you would be spared half of the grief you got here if you didn't act like an embodiment of a stereotype.

If I want half the grief then I guess I need to act like the embodiment of a monotype, huh?

514 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 6:24:57am

re: #513 Milty

It's your choice, dude.

PS: If you're indeed Gil Ronen, why don't you tell us your story that you told at Kahane's 17th memorial, about how you tried to entrap him with trick questions. That's something interesting.

515 What, me worry?  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 8:40:56am

re: #153 SanFranciscoZionist

Christina Hoff Sommers claims there are two distinct groups of American feminists, equity feminists, who are goood, and all about equality, and civil rights and such, but not in a way that causes social strife or blames anyone for inequality, and gender feminists who are bad, and hate men, but who also pretend there's no such thing as real gender differences and stuff, and screw their little girls up by making them play with Tonka trucks.

This is my slightly biased and snide summation of her theory.

In Milty's use, 'gender feminists' is meant to imply that he's all for women having equal rights, like they already do, he's just not down with women making a fuss about fake stuff like domestic violence.

My online time has been really limited and in spurts last couple weeks, but I wanted to call attention to this and say thank you. I read the wiki versions given upthread also, but it made my head explode. I liked your condensed and snarky version better.

516 Coracle  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 8:41:01am

re: #500 Milty

Basically, Western guys know that they go through life without some of the most basic human rights and without any real dignity but by and large they figure "if I fight it, I will get less sex."

I'd like to know exactly what basic human rights you think 'Western guys' go without? A lot of your later bullshit is predicated on this, so I want to hear it.

It's all beautifully evil except for one thing -- society is emasculated


Which society exactly? "Western"? The US? Israel?

and other societies,..., get the courage and motivation to sc*** your emasculated little a**es.


Which societies, exactly?

in #506 you conflate New York subway adds with laws in Israel. You have a beelf with Israeli law, take it up with Israeli government. Is there a 'Tender Years' clause in effect in the US? No. Other "Western" countries? Are there 'womens tax breaks' in the US? No. Other "Western countries? Are there different retirement ages between the sexes in the US? No. Other "Western" countries?

Seems to me your beef is more with rather specific policies in Israel, which has a very different social discussion ground than the US or most other places.

517 Slap  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 8:53:33am

re: #184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Urinal cakes.

518 leftynyc  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 9:20:53am

re: #60 marjoriemoon

It's my grudge, dammit!

I get it. I was a Hilary fan also. It's why I will never watch Keith Olbermann ever again. His special comment on her was downright viscious.

519 BeenHereAwhile  Thu, Jul 21, 2011 9:24:30am

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Then Martin Luther nailed a rotary engine to the church house door...

That put a Wankle in the Catholic church.


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