Breaking: Oslo Terrorist ‘Tied to Right Wing Extremism’ - Update: A Pamela Geller Fan

A violent anti-government Norwegian wingnut
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The latest reports coming in from Norwegian sources say the man arrested in the bombing and massacre in Oslo, Anders Behring Breivik, has ties to right wing extremism and does not appear to be linked to Islamic terrorism.

UPDATE at 7/22/11 5:26:46 pm

More updates on the situation from LGF reader oslogin:

By the way, he has commented on the web site document.no, a Norwegian web site noted for criticism against the current immigration policies, but where the editorial team is rather moderate (well, in this context). All the people leaving comments on it are not. In this google-cached blog post he comments, recommending a post at [Pamela Geller’s] Atlas Shrugs.

And here he gives cred to a comment from Fjordman.

UPDATE at 7/22/11 5:39:11 pm

Here’s a Norwegian blog with some interesting but unverified information on Anders Behring Breivik and a photograph; the Google Translated version:

Anders Behring Breivik has previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman.

On July 17, released Anders Behring Breivik a message on Twitter where he writes that “One person with a belief is Equal To The force of 100,000 WHO Have only not raised.”

UPDATE at 7/22/11 7:10:38 pm

The death toll in this attack is now over 80…

Jump to bottom

751 comments

1 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:47:15pm

I'll repost my earlier comment....
Still doesn't make sense. If the guy was a right wing Christian extremist I can understand the government bombing but why the summer camp filled with Swedish kids? Why not immigrants or Jews? These guys usually want to make a point but I don't see the right wing motivation for attacking a summer camp.

2 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:47:31pm

I imagine that Pam and the rest of the hate brigade will be issuing a full recant of their original statements any minute now...

3 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:48:00pm

BTW, Alex Jones already has this angle covered. It's a false flag operation to frame white people
/Not kidding

4 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:48:18pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I imagine that Pam and the rest of the hate brigade will be issuing a full recant of their original statements any minute now...

You can count on that. Why they're always eating crow.

//

5 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:48:25pm

And everyone dead is still dead.

Poor Norway. I don't really know which is worse, homegrown or foreign terrorism.

re: #1 Killgore Trout

It was the summer camp of the left-wing party that's in control of Norway. The ones responsible for allowing immigration, basically.

It's not too odd.

6 Spocomptonite  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:49:38pm

See guys? Every country has people that want lay retribution on their own government for some perceived wrong. Even Norway.

Winnie, I expect an apology for the automatic assumption of Muslims being to blame. Not to me, but to all Muslims around the world that are having to deal with people like you holding the stereotype that car-bombings are exclusively their cultural means of lodging a protest against something.

7 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:50:11pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I imagine that Pam and the rest of the hate brigade will be issuing a full recant of their original statements any minute now...

It's nice that I feel very comfortable being wrong about this being an Islamic attack. It doesn't pain me at all if it was nazis. It's a nice position to be in.

8 elizajane  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:50:34pm

This would explain the attack on a Labor Party youth camp. It's a left-wing social-democratic party that favors a strong welfare state. THe attack on the camp did otherwise seem pretty random.

9 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:52:58pm

re: #6 Spocomptonite

See guys? Every country has people that want lay retribution on their own government for some perceived wrong. Even Norway.

Winnie, I expect an apology for the automatic assumption of Muslims being to blame. Not to me, but to all Muslims around the world that are having to deal with people like you holding the stereotype that car-bombings are exclusively their cultural means of lodging a protest against something.


It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. It was wrong but Islamic groups were already trying to take credit for it and had previously promised similar attacks. You're sorely mistaken if you think this incident somehow mitigates the threat of Islamic terrorism.

10 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:53:19pm

how come guys like this never get their phone hacked?

11 Interesting Times  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:53:30pm

re: #8 elizajane

This would explain the attack on a Labor Party youth camp. It's a left-wing social-democratic party that favors a strong welfare state. THe attack on the camp did otherwise seem pretty random.

A camp the prime minister was supposed to visit tomorrow (and my guess is he didn't want to wait until then to attack because of increased security that would accompany said visit)

12 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:53:52pm

Knew it. Conservative "fatherland" and anti-immigrant ideology is at the heart of the right, and it is poison.

13 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:54:12pm

re: #6 Spocomptonite

There's no problem in assuming that Muslims were to blame, as long as you don't do anything on that assumption.

There's a problem in insisting it was the only possible explanation, which is actually what some people did.

14 Spocomptonite  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:55:17pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. It was wrong but Islamic groups were already trying to take credit for it and had previously promised similar attacks. You're sorely mistaken if you think this incident somehow mitigates the threat of Islamic terrorism.

I have no illusions about Islamic extremism around the world. It's there, it's nasty, and it's becoming more prevalent globally. I think the world, however, is developing the illusion that Bombings=Muslims.

15 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:55:49pm

If the facebook link circulating really is him then he doesn't seem to be a generic Euro-fascist type. He doesn't seem overly extreme and more of an American style libertarian. Not nearly as extreme as Fox News or the Tea Party judging by his reading material.

16 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:55:58pm

Y'all should read oslogin's stuff from last page:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

17 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:56:07pm

re: #13 Obdicut

There's no problem in assuming that Muslims were to blame, as long as you don't do anything on that assumption.

There's a problem in insisting it was the only possible explanation, which is actually what some people did.

Not Muslims but Jihadists.

18 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:57:16pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Yes, it was. I also initially assumed this was most probable. It was reasonable, given the past.

WS did not assume. It was an irrational dogma for him/her. Thus an apology is expected.

19 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:57:39pm

re: #14 Spocomptonite

I think the world, however, is developing the illusion that Bombings=Muslims.


I think that has a lot to do with all the Muslim Bombings. The right wingers have a lot of catching up to do.

20 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:57:54pm

re: #17 Gus 802

My point is I assumed it was Jihadi terror too. I figured there was a chance it might be a right-wing terrorist, or even a left-wing terrorist, but that those were small possibilities. They turned out to be the correct one.

I would have shown something very different if I asserted that it definitely was a Jihadi terrorist, rather than assuming.

21 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:58:00pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

I'll repost my earlier comment...
Still doesn't make sense. If the guy was a right wing Christian extremist I can understand the government bombing but why the summer camp filled with Swedish kids? Why not immigrants or Jews? These guys usually want to make a point but I don't see the right wing motivation for attacking a summer camp.

I guessed wrong about Qaddafi, who isn't really a Muslim anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if this guy comes up with the explanation that he is protesting Muslim immigrants.

22 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:59:09pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

If the facebook link circulating really is him then he doesn't seem to be a generic Euro-fascist type. He doesn't seem overly extreme and more of an American style libertarian. Not nearly as extreme as Fox News or the Tea Party judging by his reading material.

I think he is a pathological killer and set up a paradigm to fit his criteria...no sane person kills 25 kids, methodically, with a pistol....he enjoyed it

23 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:59:19pm

oslogin seems to have proven that this guy was Fjordturd's fan. That should rattle some cages.

24 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 4:59:41pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Y'all should read oslogin's stuff from last page:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Holly shit. He's a fan of Fjordman and Geller? I can't really make it out to verify.

25 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:00:19pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Holly shit. He's a fan of Fjordman and Geller? I can't really make it out to verify.

That's what oslogin said that it appears, from those links.

26 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:00:31pm
27 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:00:46pm

re: #23 Sergey Romanov

oslogin seems to have proven that this guy was Fjordturd's fan. That should rattle some cages.

Said cage has been rattled: From your WebCite page:

Fjordman said... 36

"Aren't they quite similar, both in deeds, intent, and worldview?"

Yes, they are, but it will make it a lot easier for the already heavily left-leaning mass media to silence all white right-wing dissenters still left. It would practically destroy my country, and make the working conditions for people like myself incredibly difficult for a long time to come, I'm afraid.

Silver lining?

28 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:00:56pm

By the way, he has commented on the web site document.no, a Norwegian web site noted for criticism against the current immigration policies, but where the editorial team is rather moderate (well, in this context). All the people leaving comments on it are not. In this google-cached blog post he comments, recommending a post at Atlas Shrugs:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

And here he gives cred to a comment from Fjordman:
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

29 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:01:05pm

re: #25 Obdicut

That's what oslogin said that it appears, from those links.

maybe they are the same person

30 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:01:19pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

I'll repost my earlier comment...
Still doesn't make sense. If the guy was a right wing Christian extremist I can understand the government bombing but why the summer camp filled with Swedish kids? Why not immigrants or Jews? These guys usually want to make a point but I don't see the right wing motivation for attacking a summer camp.

Rwnj hate kids of n-lovers, j-lovers, m-lovers, h-lovers, etc. I still think it's early on. This guy could be anybody, and we don't even know if he did it or not.

31 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:02:09pm

time stamp..any Fman posts after the fact?

32 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:02:19pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Y'all should read oslogin's stuff from last page:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Oh shit, wow, tonight Pam's going to be hitting the gin something fierce.

33 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:02:39pm

re: #28 oslogin

Respect, man!

34 Spocomptonite  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:03:16pm

re: #13 Obdicut

There's no problem in assuming that Muslims were to blame, as long as you don't do anything on that assumption.

There's a problem in insisting it was the only possible explanation, which is actually what some people did.

Yes there is. It reeks of the same kind of disturbing mentality where people automatically assume the black guy did a crime, or assuming the girl was asking for it, or that immigrants are lazy welfare cheats.

It's not on the same level of what you agree is a problem, but it's still wrong to essentially hear news about a terrorist attack and turn to the nearest Muslim and say, I think one of your fellow followers is to blame. One doesn't have to do anything, it's the stereotype itself that's offensive.

35 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:03:26pm

re: #28 oslogin

By the way, he has commented on the web site document.no, a Norwegian web site noted for criticism against the current immigration policies, but where the editorial team is rather moderate (well, in this context). All the people leaving comments on it are not. In this google-cached blog post he comments, recommending a post at Atlas Shrugs:

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

And here he gives cred to a comment from Fjordman:
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]


Thanks you very much for posting that. You've been very helpful today and we're all very grateful you're here.

36 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:03:47pm

re: #26 Gus 802

Um, that says:


Anders Behring Breivik has previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman.


That can't be right, right? That's just a mistranslation, this guy isn't Fjordman, right?

37 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:04:59pm
Published 2011-07-23, 01:23 pm
Anders Behring Breivik arrested for terrorist attacks in Oslo
News

Anders Behring Breivik, a Norwegian-Zionist and anti-Islamist, has been arrested on suspicion of terrorist attacks in Oslo and at Utøya. He was previously a writer for blogs Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch below a username Fjordman.

38 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:05:17pm

re: #36 Obdicut

Well, seeing how F is not in custody...

39 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:05:21pm

re: #36 Obdicut

Um, that says:
That can't be right, right? That's just a mistranslation, this guy isn't Fjordman, right?

That's what I was wondering.

40 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:03pm

re: #26 Gus 802

"Anders Behring" fjordman

Uh, wow. Is that really 'Fjordman?' The article seems to say that.

41 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:10pm

re: #36 Obdicut

Um, that says:

That can't be right, right? That's just a mistranslation, this guy isn't Fjordman, right?

I haven't really read any of that yet. Been Googling in the background here.

42 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:48pm

re: #40 Charles

Uh, wow. Is that really 'Fjordman?' The article seems to say that.

it does...very spooky

43 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:48pm

re: #34 Spocomptonite

Yes there is. It reeks of the same kind of disturbing mentality where people automatically assume the black guy did a crime, o

When I lived in the Tenderloin, I assumed that if my wallet was stolen it was stolen by someone black, because that was 95% of the peopel there. It wasn't racist. It was a reasonable assumption.

When a NATO nation that's currently propagating a war in Afghanistan, participating in a fight against Libya, and has published the Mohammed cartoons, and is a huge beacon of liberalism, gets attacked, I assume that the person doing it was an extreme right-winger, most likely a Jihadi, because there is a pattern of such attacks.

It's not anything to do with Muslims in general.


It's not on the same level of what you agree is a problem, but it's still wrong to essentially hear news about a terrorist attack and turn to the nearest Muslim and say, I think one of your fellow followers is to blame.

Are you under the impression I'm a goddamn moron? I don't blame Phelps on ordinary Christians and I don't blame Jihadis on ordinary Muslims. I'd never say that a Jihadi followed the same faith as a normal Muslim.

44 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:49pm

re: #36 Obdicut

Um, that says:


That can't be right, right? That's just a mistranslation, this guy isn't Fjordman, right?

Wow,
[Link: www.realisten.se...]

uhhh, that can't possibly be right. I'm in shock.

45 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:56pm

re: #40 Charles

Fjordturd is currently commenting at GoV, so it's some confusion.

46 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:06:56pm

re: #16 Obdicut

Y'all should read oslogin's stuff from last page:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

A quote from one of those links. Talking of a book.

Det handlar mest om innvandrarar. Om muslimar. Om ein skummel muslimsk konspirasjon, der islamistar frå Arabialand har lagt ein langsiktig plan for å overta Danmark. Islamisera Danmark. Gjera brutalt ende på dansk kultur og levesett.

"It is about immigrants. Of Muslims. Of a slimy Muslim conspiracy that Islamists from Arabia have made a long term plan to take over Denmark. Make Demark Islamic. Make a brutal end to Danish culture and way of life".

47 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:07:01pm

re: #40 Charles

Uh, wow. Is that really 'Fjordman?' The article seems to say that.

Have oslogin translate it directly.

48 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:07:10pm
49 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:07:41pm

re: #45 Sergey Romanov

Fjordturd is currently commenting at GoV, so it's some confusion.

Yeah, I figure the translation really meant that Gates of Vienna is run by a guy named Fjordman.

50 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:08:00pm

re: #47 Gus 802

Have oslogin translate it directly.

It's in Swedish, I don't know how close Norweigan and Swedish are.

51 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:08:19pm

G'night all.

52 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:08:25pm

re: #49 Obdicut

If so, they're wrong...

53 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:08:36pm

re: #50 Obdicut

It's in Swedish, I don't know how close Norweigan and Swedish are.

about 20 miles........

54 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:08:54pm

re: #50 Obdicut

It's in Swedish, I don't know how close Norweigan and Swedish are.

Ah. OK. Didn't notice the "se" at the end there. Was eating here at the same time. :)

55 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:10:04pm

re: #48 Charles

[Link: www.realisten.se...]

I think it's a far right blog too. It's not some lefty trying to smear him.

56 zora  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:10:05pm

re: #36 Obdicut

do y'all know him? was he a former poster here?

57 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:10:21pm

re: #45 Sergey Romanov

Fjordturd is currently commenting at GoV, so it's some confusion.

maybe some is posing as Fman

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:10:47pm

OK, before anything is deleted I saved the url [Link: www.document.no...] here:

[Link: www.webcitation.org...]

Note that when you just open the page, you can't see the comments since they're hidden by CSS, you'll either have to turn off styles, or just look directly inside the HTML code.

59 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:11:06pm

Well, I don't know if he is a fan, but he links approvingly to an Atlas Shrugs post in a debate about riots in Gothenburg (to an article on riots in Marseille), and he approves of a comment by Fjordman in the second link. Only available through Google cache, I believe, since the web site has changed their commenting system.

He also writes the following: "This story should not be underestimated. It serves as proof that: [text in English]Labour wants mass immigration to engineer multicultural UK, says former Blair and Straw adviser.

Labour threw open Britain’s borders to mass immigration to help socially engineer a “truly multicultural” country, a former Government adviser has revealed.

The former Labour adviser said the Government opened up UK borders partly to humiliate Right-wing opponents of immigration.

[text in Norwegian]This proves that some of the motivation for mass-immigration is not based on humanism (a decoy), but on direct hatred against people having conservative values, such as ourselves, the cultural conservatives. A large part of them HATE everything European [written with capital E in Norwegian, which is not grammatically correct, and signifies an extra pressure] and wish to destroy it through multiculturalism. Multiculturalism is an anti-European hate ideology designed to exterminate European culture/tradition, identity, Christianity [also with capital K in Norwegian, grammatically wrong] and the sovereignty of nations. The goal is a utopic super state. To achieve this everything European must be destroyed first. There are of course real humanists (who are only suicidally naive), but I suspect that a greater part than previously assumed are culture-Marxists (multiculturalists) with outright hateful intentions.

Possibly divided as follows:

[Goes over to English]
Opponents of cultural conservative doctrines:
Cultural Marxists: 30% (hateful intentions)
Suicidal Humanists: 65% (naiv)
Capitalist globalists: 5% (greed)

[Back to Norwegian]
Have others tried to estimate the intentions of our opponents? This would be relevant in a future Nuremberg process. It would of course be difficult to prove this, as all cultural marxists use humanist decoy alibis."

Quite a rant.

60 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:11:22pm

re: #57 albusteve

maybe some is posing as Fman

No, looks like a real deal.

61 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:11:30pm

There is a link to a "Fjordman's" post at GoV at that [Link: www.realisten.se...] link.

Real charmer.

62 Spocomptonite  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:12:03pm

re: #43 Obdicut


Are you under the impression I'm a goddamn moron? I don't blame Phelps on ordinary Christians and I don't blame Jihadis on ordinary Muslims. I'd never say that a Jihadi followed the same faith as a normal Muslim.

I didn't mean to offend. I certainly don't think you are. Perhaps I'm just more, uh... (I'm trying to decide whether 'politically correct' or 'naive' is the better word here).

I have not lived in the Tenderloin, or anything like it, so its probably naivety. My apologies.

63 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:12:05pm

re: #56 zora

do y'all know him? was he a former poster here?

Yep.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

64 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:12:16pm

re: #59 oslogin

(I hope he doesn't link to old LGF articles... ;)

65 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:12:21pm

For the record, my original Google search was just for any comments he might have left regarding Fjordman. Just in case one of the lurkers thinks that I thought this guy today is Fjordman.

66 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:13:10pm

re: #36 Obdicut

That can't be right, right? That's just a mistranslation, this guy isn't Fjordman, right?

It does indeed say that he is Fjordman. That does not seem likely though, since Fjordman has actively posted on the story at the Gates of Vienna.

67 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:13:46pm

re: #66 oslogin

It does indeed say that he is Fjordman. That does not seem likely though, since Fjordman has actively posted on the story at the Gates of Vienna.

Could be a 'co-worker' or something...

68 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:14:00pm

I feel an "I told you so, motherfuckers" moment coming on.

69 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:14:03pm

re: #50 Obdicut

It's in Swedish, I don't know how close Norweigan and Swedish are.

Close enough.

70 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:14:08pm

re: #66 oslogin

It does indeed say that he is Fjordman. That does not seem likely though, since Fjordman has actively posted on the story at the Gates of Vienna.

I see him being hattipped at GoV, but does that mean it was him or were they just adding his name as well?

71 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:14:22pm

Extra bad if true.

Because then two groups doing this, and the world descending into madness.

72 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:14:30pm

re: #66 oslogin

It does indeed say that he is Fjordman. That does not seem likely though, since Fjordman has actively posted on the story at the Gates of Vienna.

I think someone is planting some bait to catch someone out. On the other hand I've wondered a few times if the pseudonym isn't used by a group of people.

73 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:14:59pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

I'll repost my earlier comment...
Still doesn't make sense. If the guy was a right wing Christian extremist I can understand the government bombing but why the summer camp filled with Swedish kids? Why not immigrants or Jews? These guys usually want to make a point but I don't see the right wing motivation for attacking a summer camp.

Does the Murrah building ring a bell? One of the reasons McVeigh chose it was BECAUSE there were children. There are two possible lines of reasoning (I've heard both). Simplifying both:

1) Sufficient emotive spark to get the revolution going (Wake UP the sheeple); and/or

2) Spawn of evil will grow up to be evil, so kill it while it's young.

74 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:15:15pm

re: #66 oslogin

It does indeed say that he is Fjordman. That does not seem likely though, since Fjordman has actively posted on the story at the Gates of Vienna.

Yeah, He might be a fan or associate of Fjordman but I seriously doubt they are the same person.

75 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:15:29pm

re: #66 oslogin

It does indeed say that he is Fjordman. That does not seem likely though, since Fjordman has actively posted on the story at the Gates of Vienna.

well, one cannot be two places at once...but two people can...and in the bigger picture, it's hard to believe the guy didn't have at least one accomplice

76 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:15:56pm

re: #68 Charles

Holy shit.

Massively Off Topic

I need help here. It involves family, and the fact that my "Dad" temporarily absconded with my car.

77 S.D.  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:16:19pm

Glad they took him alive, the POLICE needs to get to the bottom of this!

78 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:16:26pm

re: #76 ProLifeLiberal

What happened?

79 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:17:58pm

re: #6 Spocomptonite

See guys? Every country has people that want lay retribution on their own government for some perceived wrong. Even Norway.

Winnie, I expect an apology for the automatic assumption of Muslims being to blame. Not to me, but to all Muslims around the world that are having to deal with people like you holding the stereotype that car-bombings are exclusively their cultural means of lodging a protest against something.

There was a fucking hashtag on twitter #pleasedontletitbeamuslim

80 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:18:13pm

re: #73 kirkspencer

I think from reading a lot of history books, that evil always over-reaches itself, eventually.

So your points make sense to me.

81 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:18:35pm

re: #76 ProLifeLiberal
omg.

82 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:18:58pm

Police official tells AP blast is more Norway’s “Oklahoma City” than “World Trade Center” [Link: wapo.st...] #lgf #p2

83 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:19:05pm

holy shit

84 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:19:19pm

Wow, just fucking wow! One of Pam's skin jobs is defending this shit:

Jeff said in reply to Effyouseekwit...
its Not a bad idea at all. If you have a country welcome islamo facists
who rape ad abuse your community and countrymen and govt of libtards
looks the other way.....someone has to take the battle to the enemies
if the people.

No point just sitting and blogging away. Its one way to Put fear back on
libtards and the islamo-fasicts. The message is clear - We can hit back.

In times of crusades he would be a hero.

85 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:19:34pm

re: #78 Sergey Romanov

My dad is going batshit.

He got upset at my mother for not doing something the way he wanted, and called her a retard. All three of us explained what happened and he got angry, and sat down at another table to eat. Since we are a "family", he was holding the keys to my car. He drove off without us.

He is getting worse, as he is losing control of me and my sister. He will eventually explode. What strategy do I use for this upcoming issue.

86 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:19:47pm

re: #56 zora

do y'all know him? was he a former poster here?

He posted a lot & then was kicked off.

87 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:20:12pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Wow, just fucking wow! One of Pam's skin jobs is defending this shit:

there are millions of those people...should keep you busy for awhile

88 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:20:16pm

Arrested 32-year-old called himself nationalist

Critical of Islam

In online debates marks Anders Behring Breivik as well read, and one with strong opinions about Norwegian politics. He promotes a very conservative opinions, which he also called nationalist. He expresses himself strongly opposed to multiculturalism - that cultural differences can live together in a community.

Breivik has had many posts on the site Document.no, an Islam-critical site that publishes news and commentary.

In one of the posts he states that politics today no longer revolves around socialism against capitalism, but that the fight is between nationalism and internationalism. He expressed clear support for the nationalist mindset.

Anders Breivik Behring has also commented on the Swedish news articles, where he makes it clear that he believes the media have failed by not being "NOK" Islam-critical.

89 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:20:42pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

My dad is going batshit.

He got upset at my mother for not doing something the way he wanted, and called her a retard. All three of us explained what happened and he got angry, and sat down at another table to eat. Since we are a "family", he was holding the keys to my car. He drove off without us.

He is getting worse, as he is losing control of me and my sister. He will eventually explode. What strategy do I use for this upcoming issue.

While he's gone remove the firing pins from any guns in the house.

90 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:04pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

If it's your car you can call the police. Just a suggestion.

91 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:07pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

I would say remove yourself from potential danger & get some good counseling.

92 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:15pm

re: #89 goddamnedfrank

While he's gone remove the firing pins from any guns in the house.

smart move

93 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:16pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Wow, just fucking wow! One of Pam's skin jobs is defending this shit:

Yes, because in the time of the Crusades, the Knights would routinely go and slaughter the children of their countrymen to make a point.

Fucktard.

94 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:29pm

Hate to go all OT, just want you all to know my grandson's ears are fine! He was examined this morning by a specialist who told my son the baby's hearing is normal, he just has a piece of skin covering his ear canal. Kind of like a foreskin over his ear.

So looks like he will be getting a bris for his peepee and another bris for his ear. :)

95 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:42pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal
Try to get some professional help for him.

96 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:50pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Wow, just fucking wow! One of Pam's skin jobs is defending this shit:

Pam's going to have to come to terms with the fact that the killer was a reader of her blog. I don't think that's going to sink in with her.

97 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:21:52pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

My dad is going batshit.

He got upset at my mother for not doing something the way he wanted, and called her a retard. All three of us explained what happened and he got angry, and sat down at another table to eat. Since we are a "family", he was holding the keys to my car. He drove off without us.

He is getting worse, as he is losing control of me and my sister. He will eventually explode. What strategy do I use for this upcoming issue.

Call police and report a stolen car.

98 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:22:12pm

I think actual Fjordman is Swedish now that I think on it, not Norwegian.

99 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:22:30pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Give the cache link please.

100 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:22:44pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Pam's going to have to come to terms with the fact that the killer was a reader of her blog. I don't think that's going to sink in with her.

she'll figure out something...
BARTENDER!

101 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:23:02pm

re: #98 Thanos

I think actual Fjordman is Swedish now that I think on it, not Norwegian.

Nah, he's Norwegian. From Trøndelag, allegedly.

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:23:05pm

re: #94 Alouette

At last some good news!

103 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:23:20pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

What strategy do I use for this upcoming issue.

Do what's best for you, your mother, and your sister, in that order.

104 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:23:52pm

re: #101 oslogin

Thanks for the clarification.

105 Spocomptonite  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:24:02pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

My dad is going batshit.

He got upset at my mother for not doing something the way he wanted, and called her a retard. All three of us explained what happened and he got angry, and sat down at another table to eat. Since we are a "family", he was holding the keys to my car. He drove off without us.

He is getting worse, as he is losing control of me and my sister. He will eventually explode. What strategy do I use for this upcoming issue.

Third party negotiator?

Serious, in high school me and my siblings had a massive falling out with Dad, who couldn't understand, uh, things. It eventually took a neutral, third party in the form of a counselor or two for him to see the error of his ways and get help in fixing them. It really helps when someone is there who isn't passionately and emotionally involved in what's going on.

106 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:24:03pm

re: #94 Alouette

Yay!

107 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:24:38pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Wow, just fucking wow! One of Pam's skin jobs is defending this shit:

Pam's place is so stupid, they don't even know obvious provocateurs when they see them.

108 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:24:38pm

re: #90 Naso Tang

That's where it's odd. The car was bought by the family 4 years ago, then I was given the Title 2 years ago. Family also pays for insurance.

My sister is talking to friends about living with them until college. I don't plan on coming back after this summer. All items I own come with me to college. I will do a one-day stopover during Christmas Break for remaining items, but that's it.

I've had it. Fortunately, no guns here.

109 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:25:23pm

re: #107 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Pam's place is so stupid, they don't even know obvious provocateurs when they see them.

Even when they're dressed in a skin tight superman outfit.

110 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:25:37pm

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Yeah, He might be a fan or associate of Fjordman but I seriously doubt they are the same person.

Not likely. But this will likely be an internet rumor that spreads fast. His problem I suppose.

111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:25:47pm

re: #85 ProLifeLiberal

My dad is going batshit.

He got upset at my mother for not doing something the way he wanted, and called her a retard. All three of us explained what happened and he got angry, and sat down at another table to eat. Since we are a "family", he was holding the keys to my car. He drove off without us.

He is getting worse, as he is losing control of me and my sister. He will eventually explode. What strategy do I use for this upcoming issue.

Get out while you can.

112 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:26:04pm

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

That's where it's odd. The car was bought by the family 4 years ago, then I was given the Title 2 years ago. Family also pays for insurance.

My sister is talking to friends about living with them until college. I don't plan on coming back after this summer. All items I own come with me to college. I will do a one-day stopover during Christmas Break for remaining items, but that's it.

I've had it. Fortunately, no guns here.

pack your stuff and head out

113 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:26:37pm

re: #97 Alouette

He did come back after about 20 minutes. However, I'm thinking about things going forward.

I can't (and haven't for a while) thought of him as my father.

He's a MBC.

114 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:26:43pm

Latest comment at GoV:

Konservator said...

At least one website with an unhealthy obsession with jews is claiming that Fjordman is the alleged shooter from Utøya, Anders Behring Breivik.

Perhaps Fjordman would like to comment, seeing that he is supplying GoV with updates on the events? :)

115 zora  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:26:43pm

re: #86 Ojoe

lgf is mentioned on his wiki page.

116 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:26:49pm

Just for the sake of it saved the other pages oslogin found: [Link: www.webcitation.org...]
Same procedure for comment-retrieval as before.

117 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:27:16pm

If it is Fjordman we will learn soon enough -- the police, the papers, searchlight and everyone else are going to be all over this.

118 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:27:17pm

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

No matter. If the car is in your name. Call the police. They have seen this before, and besides he, your dad, may be in danger of causing harm to himself or someone else. You don't have to press charges.

119 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:27:58pm

re: #104 Thanos

Thanks for the clarification.

Of course, being anonymous, he could be Swedish. Or he could be a number of people. He does write decent Norwegian, though. Very angry, very long-winded, but nice grammar and all.

120 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:28:10pm

re: #94 Alouette

Hate to go all OT, just want you all to know my grandson's ears are fine! He was examined this morning by a specialist who told my son the baby's hearing is normal, he just has a piece of skin covering his ear canal. Kind of like a foreskin over his ear.

So looks like he will be getting a bris for his peepee and another bris for his ear. :)

One of the "talking points" of the anti-circ spammers is to make fun of an imaginary tribe that give infants an "ear circumcision" and who wouldn't want to ban that. Now we see that it can be medically essential.

Well now I actually have a real-life example of the "ear bris" talking point. Of course they won't listen because they are SPAMMERS.

121 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:28:45pm

re: #116 Sergey Romanov

Did you notice the ad for Sara Palin in there too?

122 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:28:54pm

re: #112 albusteve

I'll be chatting with a friend in Fort Collins ASAP.

With any luck, I can move up there.

123 tommysilver  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:28:58pm

nice index page flub over at redstate at the moment!

124 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:29:07pm

re: #94 Alouette
That is wonderful news.

125 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:29:14pm

re: #113 ProLifeLiberal

He did come back after about 20 minutes. However, I'm thinking about things going forward.

I can't (and haven't for a while) thought of him as my father.

He's a MBC.

What is MBC?

126 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:29:50pm

re: #125 Alouette

Male Biological Contributor.

127 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:29:58pm

re: #121 Naso Tang

What does that have to do with anything?

128 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:30:03pm

Shabbat shalom. I hate to leave this hot thread. See y'all tomorrow night!

129 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:30:53pm

re: #118 Naso Tang

No matter. If the car is in your name. Call the police. They have seen this before, and besides he, your dad, may be in danger of causing harm to himself or someone else. You don't have to press charges.

exactly wrong...it's not productive to indict unstable people...leave the house for good first

130 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:31:11pm

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

OK, before anything is deleted I saved the url [Link: www.document.no...] here:

[Link: www.webcitation.org...]

Note that when you just open the page, you can't see the comments since they're hidden by CSS, you'll either have to turn off styles, or just look directly inside the HTML code.

Thanks -- good idea.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:31:20pm

re: #120 Alouette

As crazy as those people are, I'm sure they allow for medicinal circ., e.g. in case of phimosis, so it's not a correct analogy.

132 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:31:21pm

re: #99 Sergey Romanov

Give the cache link please.

Atlas doesn't seem to allow google to cache links. It's in the thread NORWAY: "DOUBTS RAISED ON TERRORISM ANGLE". I've saved a web archive and here's a screen grab.

133 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:31:59pm

holy socks!...it's raining at the bunkhouse, again

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:33:00pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

Thanks. As somebody pointed out, that may be just a provocateur...

135 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:33:42pm

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

What does that have to do with anything?

Nothing.

136 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:33:57pm

re: #129 albusteve

Especially in the fact that I have things co-morbid with the Autism. The big issue in this case is Hypotonia, which makes it hard to gain muscle mass. That hurts the concept of self-defense in my case.

I am moving out. I'm going to start asking around.

137 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:34:07pm

re: #129 albusteve

exactly wrong...it's not productive to indict unstable people...leave the house for good first

Steve is right - can't call the cops on dad and still be living at home. That's a great way to end up in the hospital.

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:34:19pm

re: #135 Naso Tang

So why did you post it?

139 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:35:16pm

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

Thanks. As somebody pointed out, that may be just a provocateur...

The guy asserting that he was recruited by Islamic militants, just like McVeigh, I don't think is joking. There's a belief in extremist circles that McVeigh was just an AQ dupe.

140 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:35:39pm

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

Thanks. As somebody pointed out, that may be just a provocateur...

still, he should be looked at...his routine, finances, girlfriends etc

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:36:04pm

Do we know anything more about the youth camp?

142 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:36:46pm

Back later.

143 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:37:40pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Pam's going to have to come to terms with the fact that the killer was a reader of her blog. I don't think that's going to sink in with her.

The anti radical Islamists are all going jihad. I have a feeling there's a study on this.

Otherwise, idjits.

144 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:37:55pm

re: #138 Sergey Romanov

So why did you post it?

Persistent are you. At first I thought it odd that there would a Sara Palin ad on a Norwegian blog/website, but then I realized it was probably just for me based on my IP.

OK?

145 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:38:08pm

Charles : you might want to give some context links for new readers who don't know the long saga. Many of the casual visitors don't.

146 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:39:23pm

They'll be like "Fjordman? who's that?"

147 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:40:19pm

re: #141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do we know anything more about the youth camp?

the forensics from that disaster are going to be chilling...I don't even want to know, I can guess...he must have been an expert shot, with plenty of ammo...I suspect the killing stopped when he ran out...something like that

148 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:40:25pm

re: #144 Naso Tang

I just thought you were making some kind of point. Whatever.

149 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:41:11pm

re: #146 Thanos

They'll be like "Fjordman? who's that?"

right...I agree

150 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:41:25pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Pam's going to have to come to terms with the fact that the killer was a reader of her blog. I don't think that's going to sink in with her.

Not just a reader, apparently, but an admirer. I mean, lotsa folks might read (you and I for instance?) - but we certainly have no admiration for her.

151 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:42:45pm

re: #94 Alouette

Hate to go all OT, just want you all to know my grandson's ears are fine! He was examined this morning by a specialist who told my son the baby's hearing is normal, he just has a piece of skin covering his ear canal. Kind of like a foreskin over his ear.

So looks like he will be getting a bris for his peepee and another bris for his ear. :)

Fantastic!

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:43:23pm

BTW, I believe it deserves its own post...

153 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:45:03pm

re: #114 wrenchwench

Latest comment at GoV:

Konservator said...

At least one website with an unhealthy obsession with jews is claiming that Fjordman is the alleged shooter from Utøya, Anders Behring Breivik.

Perhaps Fjordman would like to comment, seeing that he is supplying GoV with updates on the events? :)

Same guy commented at the source of the Fjordy/Breivik ID: (via my Google Translate add-on)

Conservator write :2011-07-23 at. 02:10 Where do you get information about Brevik is "Fjordman"? Fjordman out of course (as usual, in the Norwegian news) by Gates of Vienna as informants in Gov's ongoing reporting on the Oslo attacks.

And the reply is:

Editorial writing[author of the original post, I believe] :2011-07-23 at. 02:13 @ conservator information comes from Anders Breivik himself when he for a time had a fleeting contact with a person who is a writer for realisten.se. [the source of the ID, and these quotes]
154 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:45:37pm

re: #152 Sergey Romanov

BTW, I believe it deserves its own post...

I just updated with some of this information. Been trying to find something else tying Breivik to Fjordman.

155 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:46:26pm

Fman is guilty of something...I can feel it in my bones

156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:47:16pm

Hey all!

my fb pissed-me off again. This time it's Bill O'Reilly.

How are you?

157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:47:29pm

re: #147 albusteve

the forensics from that disaster are going to be chilling...I don't even want to know, I can guess...he must have been an expert shot, with plenty of ammo...I suspect the killing stopped when he ran out...something like that

Yeah it's going to be F'D UP, I agree. But I meant the nature of the summer camp. Lib, con, secular, religious, "multicultural", etc.

Found this in that Sky News report linked earlier: "Shots were fired by a man dressed as a police officer at a youth meeting of the ruling Labour Party in Utoya - ..."

This is so f'ed.

158 JamesWI  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:47:45pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

Atlas doesn't seem to allow google to cache links. It's in the thread NORWAY: "DOUBTS RAISED ON TERRORISM ANGLE". I've saved a web archive and here's a screen grab.

Notice how, since it's coming out that it's likely a Right-wing guy, she can't call it "terrorism." It's just a lone, crazed gunman people! Not like those evil Muslims. They're the TERRORISTS!

159 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:48:53pm

I'm watching over at Gateway Pundit to see when the revulsion against this act of Muslim terrorism turns into praise for a true Norwegian patriot
who was forced to fight back against the multicultural policies oh his evil Leftist government....

.....and, of course, killing off future leftists at a youth camp.

As Allen West says.....those kind of people pollute the gene pool.

160 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:49:07pm

This could be real bad for Gates of Vienna and Pam.

They are sweating.

The people I'm talking to in Fort Collins are on vacation. I should be able to survive until the first person gets back Monday. If he goes batshit moreso beforehand, I'll figure out an alternative.

161 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:50:24pm

OK, I found something, but no assumption should be made that this is our guy:

[Link: groups.google.com...]

He does seem to be from Oslo and he does discuss guns. Oslogin should take a look.

162 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:50:27pm

re: #158 JamesWI

Notice how, since it's coming out that it's likely a Right-wing guy, she can't call it "terrorism." It's just a lone, crazed gunman people! Not like those evil Muslims. They're the TERRORISTS!

Today's perp didn't just kill people...[latest comment at GoV]

Let's face it - it's now beyond reasonable doubt that this was the act of a home grown, white, right wing loon. Let's also face that this person has unfortunately dealt the counterjihad a tremendous blow - and then deal with that.

Poor racists. Where's that tiny violin...

163 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:50:41pm

OT Borders is going out of business. My page: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

164 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:51:55pm

re: #157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah it's going to be F'D UP, I agree. But I meant the nature of the summer camp. Lib, con, secular, religious, "multicultural", etc.

Found this in that Sky News report linked earlier: "Shots were fired by a man dressed as a police officer at a youth meeting of the ruling Labour Party in Utoya - ..."

This is so f'ed.

yes, designed and set up to kill children....wow

165 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:53:15pm

re: #158 JamesWI

Notice how, since it's coming out that it's likely a Right-wing guy, she can't call it "terrorism." It's just a lone, crazed gunman people! Not like those evil Muslims. They're the TERRORISTS!

It's mind boggling how stupid, and ignorant, those commenters are.

I love all the vitriol against Norway, coming from people who have
never likely left the U.S.

166 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:53:34pm

the rain in ABQ is blowing through my doors and windows...wind racing through the bunkhouse...shit is getting seriously wet, including me...life is good

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:53:46pm

Gun regulations: [Link: groups.google.com...]

Another:

[Link: groups.google.com...]

Want to buy S & W .38 snubrevolver (

168 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:54:14pm

re: #164 albusteve

yes, designed and set up to kill children...wow

They were future leftist politicians in training, so it's okay......

169 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:54:39pm

re: #166 albusteve

the rain in ABQ is blowing through my doors and windows...wind racing through the bunkhouse...shit is getting seriously wet, including me...life is good

Glad to hear it!

Later, lizards.

170 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:55:19pm

...and I refust to use "sarc tags". If people can't detect sarcasm, I'm not going to hold their hands through the process....

171 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:56:34pm

re: #169 wrenchwench

Glad to hear it!

Later, lizards.

may the Lords Of Wet yet fall upon you

172 wrenchwench  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:56:36pm

Just one more from GoV:

nimbus said...

Is he one of us?!?!

The dawn breaks...

173 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:56:53pm

He appears to also have written other comments on document.no and several other Norwegian web sites under the name Anders B.

174 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:57:25pm

re: #170 Hawaii69

...and I refust to use "sarc tags". If people can't detect sarcasm, I'm not going to hold their hands through the process...

submit or die

175 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:59:10pm

re: #170 Hawaii69

...and I refust to use "sarc tags". If people can't detect sarcasm, I'm not going to hold their hands through the process...

Well . . . OK.

You do some of us a great favor, assuming we're as smart as you are and all -

176 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:59:26pm

re: #173 oslogin

He appears to also have written other comments on document.no and several other Norwegian web sites under the name Anders B.

Breivik or Fjiordman?

177 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:59:42pm

re: #161 Sergey Romanov

OK, I found something, but no assumption should be made that this is our guy:

[Link: groups.google.com...]

He does seem to be from Oslo and he does discuss guns. Oslogin should take a look.

Could be another Anders Breivik; Anders is a rather common given name, and there are well over 2600 people with Breivik as a family name. The perp seems to have preferred his other family name, Behring. There's a politician in the Socialist Left party who has the same name, as well. Bet he's happy.

178 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:59:45pm

Well thank heavens this is just some nutjob instead of actual terrorism.

179 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 5:59:50pm

re: #174 albusteve

submit or die

blink. weren't you the one making the same statement about sarc tags a few weeks ago? Or am I thinking of Walter?

180 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:00:09pm

re: #160 ProLifeLiberal

This could be real bad for Gates of Vienna and Pam.

They are sweating.

The people I'm talking to in Fort Collins are on vacation. I should be able to survive until the first person gets back Monday. If he goes batshit moreso beforehand, I'll figure out an alternative.

Is there alcohol involved?

181 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:00:27pm

re: #175 reine.de.tout

Well . . . OK.

You do some of us a great favor, assuming we're as smart as you are and all -

what's so cool is that people like us are as smart as we need to be

182 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:00:55pm

re: #178 JasonA

/

183 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:01:14pm

re: #179 kirkspencer

blink. weren't you the one making the same statement about sarc tags a few weeks ago? Or am I thinking of Walter?

you missed the sarc tag

184 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:01:29pm

Tweet counter taking off on this one!

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:02:07pm

re: #178 JasonA

Well thank heavens this is just some nutjob instead of actual terrorism.

I'm sure the victim's felt the difference?

The problem is that we seem to have a lot of "nut jobs" --we need to figure out how to get to them before they kill.

186 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:02:26pm

re: #179 kirkspencer

blink. weren't you the one making the same statement about sarc tags a few weeks ago? Or am I thinking of Walter?

Walter.
re: #181 albusteve

what's so cool is that people like us are as smart as we need to be

hehe. Yep.

187 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:02:50pm

this should be a good one, watching this guy unravel...who is he?....where did he get so fucked up?...how did he pull this thing off?

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:04:16pm

I thought sarc tags were part of LGF etiquette. no?

Nice to show those reading from all over the world when we are serious and when we are not. Non-Lizards can take screen shots you know. Can make Charles look really bad.

Not using sarc tags = not good mojo

189 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:04:24pm

re: #173 oslogin

He appears to also have written other comments on document.no and several other Norwegian web sites under the name Anders B.

A question: What does life in prison mean in Norway?

190 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:04:31pm

re: #187 albusteve

Pamela's in deep trouble, if not done.

This may force Europe out of its anti-Muslim bender. I make this analogy because some countries over there (Barring Norway and Sweden) are drunk on hate.

191 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:04:32pm

re: #188 ggt

I thought sarc tags were part of LGF etiquette. no?

Nice to show those reading from all over the world when we are serious and when we are not. Non-Lizards can take screen shots you know. Can make Charles look really bad.

Not using sarc tags = not good mojo

Agreed.

192 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:06:43pm

re: #188 ggt

I thought sarc tags were part of LGF etiquette. no?

Nice to show those reading from all over the world when we are serious and when we are not. Non-Lizards can take screen shots you know. Can make Charles look really bad.

Not using sarc tags = not good mojo

it's never been an issue that I recall

193 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:07:42pm

For some reason, the retweet button is acting like a tard for me.

194 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:08:14pm

re: #192 albusteve

it's never been an issue that I recall

It has, years ago.

195 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:10:40pm

re: #189 Naso Tang

A question: What does life in prison mean in Norway?

Well, this guy will probably not end up in the prison featured in Michael Moore's movie (and yes, the place really is like it's portrayed, and it also works). He'll probably end up with a full prison sentence of 21 years, and I would suspect, he'll then be placed in indefinite "forvaring" (involuntary commitment), which in principle means a lifelong prison sentence. But the prisons themselves are far from harsh.

196 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:10:52pm

re: #194 ggt

It has, years ago.

people need stuff to argue about, and not using the sarc tag provides that weakness to exploit....doesn't work everytime tho

197 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:11:09pm

re: #176 albusteve

Breivik or Fjiordman?

Breivik.

198 The Shadow Do  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:11:14pm

Right wing extremism (gustatory) from deep in the extremist heart of extremely hot Texas:

Fuck cooking. I went to What-A-Burger. A right wing Texas institution. Patty melt back on the menu for a limited engagement - double patty, jack cheese, pepper sauce, on right wing (Texas) toast. Give me a handful of jalapenos on that, would ya hon? A big fry and a chocolate shake (comes in a giant orange striped cup).

Extreme much? Hell yeah

199 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:11:17pm

re: #193 ProLifeLiberal

For some reason, the retweet button is acting like a tard for me.

Must be some of these under it

200 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:11:37pm

re: #175 reine.de.tout

Well . . . OK.

You do some of us a great favor, assuming we're as smart as you are and all -


I think there are times when sarcasm should be pretty obvious.
Particularly in statements that end with "......" ;)

201 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:12:27pm

According to the CIA factbook:

Norway rejected joining the EU. Key domestic issues include immigration and integration of ethnic minorities, maintaining the country's extensive social safety net with an aging population, and preserving economic

Norwegian 94.4% (includes Sami, about 60,000), other European 3.6%, other 2% (2007 estimate)

Population below the Poverty Line: NA

202 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:14:06pm

re: #196 albusteve

people need stuff to argue about, and not using the sarc tag provides that weakness to exploit...doesn't work everytime tho

NO, but it is easily avoided . . . .

Let's not make life any harder for Charles by creating a situation he may have to take time to respond to.

203 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:14:27pm
204 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:14:38pm

re: #188 ggt

I thought sarc tags were part of LGF etiquette. no?

Nice to show those reading from all over the world when we are serious and when we are not. Non-Lizards can take screen shots you know. Can make Charles look really bad.

Not using sarc tags = not good mojo

Anyone who decided to come to LGF from elsewhere and start cherry picking comments isn't likely to know what a "sarc tag" is anyway.
I've never seen them on any other forum.

205 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:15:12pm

re: #199 Naso Tang

I don't like you very much right now

/////////massive

Why did you have that picture though? WHY!?!?

206 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:15:17pm

re: #202 ggt

NO, but it is easily avoided . . .

Let's not make life any harder for Charles by creating a situation he may have to take time to respond to.

when he tells me to use sarc tags, I'll consider it...fair?

207 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:15:27pm

re: #204 Hawaii69

Anyone who decided to come to LGF from elsewhere and start cherry picking comments isn't likely to know what a "sarc tag" is anyway.
I've never seen them on any other forum.

It also prevents flame wars.

Post as you wish, but don't get pissed when people misunderstand you.

208 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:15:55pm

re: #203 smmellvir

Shouldn't link to stalker blogs

209 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:16:13pm

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Here, Fjordman is recommending that Anders B. contacts Gates of Vienna in connection with Anders Bs work on "a solution-oriented work (a compendium written in English)". Anders B. says that his goal is "to contribute in areas on the side of what has been your main focus. Much of the information I have is unknown to most people, even to you".

210 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:16:59pm

re: #201 ggt

Population below the Poverty Line: NA


Nice!

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:17:00pm

re: #203 smmellvir

Where have you been since 2008?

212 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:17:03pm

Fjordman replies "that sounds interesting".

213 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:17:18pm

re: #209 oslogin

More! More!

PS: you're great.

214 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:17:29pm

Incoming.

215 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:17:54pm

re: #209 oslogin

a solution-oriented work


Well, there's that.

216 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:18:15pm

re: #205 ProLifeLiberal

I don't like you very much right now

///massive

Why did you have that picture though? WHY!?!?

A bunch of them just came back on the last shuttle flight after testing to see how long they live in space. Tough little suckers. Tweet buttons are just snacks for them.

217 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:19:06pm

re: #216 Naso Tang

A bunch of them just came back on the last shuttle flight after testing to see how long they live in space. Tough little suckers. Tweet buttons are just snacks for them.

Did they land in New Mexico?

218 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:19:07pm

re: #214 Charles

More News, or are a wave of stalkers incoming.

219 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:19:40pm

re: #209 oslogin

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

Here, Fjordman is recommending that Anders B. contacts Gates of Vienna in connection with Anders Bs work on "a solution-oriented work (a compendium written in English)". Anders B. says that his goal is "to contribute in areas on the side of what has been your main focus. Much of the information I have is unknown to most people, even to you".

couple of years ago...plenty of time to have an association of sorts

220 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:21:07pm

Norway doesn't seem to have the diversity we are used to. In any definition of the word. Culture, economic, ethnic, religious . . .

221 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:21:53pm

re: #217 ggt

Did they land in New Mexico?

Possibly, about 4 billion years ago on a piece of rock from Mars. Say hello to your ancestors.

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:22:43pm

re: #221 Naso Tang

Possibly, about 4 billion years ago on a piece of rock from Mars. Say hello to your ancestors.

Baba Microbe?

223 albusteve  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:23:52pm

re: #220 ggt

Norway doesn't seem to have the diversity we are used to. In any definition of the word. Culture, economic, ethnic, religious . . .

they're hip to the Stones, so that's that

224 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:30:34pm

re: #220 ggt

Norway doesn't seem to have the diversity we are used to. In any definition of the word. Culture, economic, ethnic, religious . . .

No, but I'll bet every one of them have traveled to more countries than Americans have been to US states.

225 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:30:53pm

So, is the whackjob Fjordman? Or a contributor to GOV or just a poster?

226 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:32:28pm

re: #224 Naso Tang

No, but I'll bet every one of them have traveled to more countries than Americans have been to US states.

Well, when it get's cold, we go South and are still in the same country. We take a vacation 1000 miles away and are still in the same country.

I think it produces a different kind of "tolerance".

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:34:19pm

I wonder how it feels to be Muslim in Norway right now? Being a very distinct and small minority, having everyone looking at you sideways for a few hours . . ..

228 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:34:30pm

re: #224 Naso Tang

Not only that, but them and Sweden have been much more resistant to the Anti-Muslim wave across Europe.

When the Swedish Democrats got 6% of the vote, Sweden's reaction was heart-warming and massively over the top.

So, let's give these 2 credit.

229 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:34:45pm

Another post by Anders B:

I don't know where exactly to say this, but our own Fjordman is in the process of being selected as second runner-up amongst the most recognised/influential Europan anti-Jihad/anti-multiculti/anti-Marxist intellectual bloggers.

After Gates of Vienna (no. 1) and New English Review (2). Surprisingly enough, Fjordman is lined up to beat Brussels Journal itself!

On other words: Those who still have not read Fjordman's book: "Defeating Eurabia" have not taken part in the lesson. I know it is difficult to become a prophet in one's own city, but this is over all expectation. Congratulations, Fjordman".

[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

230 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:35:27pm

re: #227 ggt

I wonder how it feels to be Muslim in Norway right now? Being a very distinct and small minority, having everyone looking at you sideways for a few hours . . ..

It's highly unpleasant.

231 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:36:00pm

re: #227 ggt

Muslims in Oklahoma had to deal with that after OKC.

232 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:37:57pm

re: #231 ProLifeLiberal

Muslims in Oklahoma had to deal with that after OKC.

I know I worried a about Arabic people I know after 9/11. People do whacky things.

233 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:38:14pm

re: #207 ggt

It also prevents flame wars.

Post as you wish, but don't get pissed when people misunderstand you.

After 12 years of using internet forums, it's pretty hard for
me to get upset about any of it. Waste of energy.

234 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:39:05pm

re: #233 Hawaii69

After 12 years of using internet forums, it's pretty hard for
me to get upset about any of it. Waste of energy.

a little sarc tag is a waste of energy?

Never mind, you are right, it's not worth discussing. . . .

235 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:39:57pm

re: #230 CuriousLurker

It's highly unpleasant.

And it makes you feel guilty, even though you know you didn't do anything wrong. It's one of the suckiest feelings I've ever experienced.

236 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:41:03pm

re: #235 CuriousLurker

And it makes you feel guilty, even though you know you didn't do anything wrong. It's one of the suckiest feelings I've ever experienced.

What category does that fall under? Peer Pressure, Mob Mentality.

I'm sorry you had to experience it.

237 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:41:05pm

re: #227 ggt

I wonder how it feels to be Muslim in Norway right now? Being a very distinct and small minority, having everyone looking at you sideways for a few hours . . ..


I don't think they've reached our level of ridiculous over there.

My friend just came back from a few days in Bergen. Totally
different kind of people.

238 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:42:12pm

re: #237 Hawaii69

I don't think they've reached our level of ridiculous over there.

My friend just came back from a few days in Bergen. Totally
different kind of people.

Well, they have produced at least one Whackjob. Per capita I think they are at our level.

239 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:44:57pm

re: #232 ggt

Yeah, but 55-60% of us rose above the fear. Which is good.

On Norway

Before this disaster, the Norwegian Prime Minister has a 36% approval rating, because of a the deportation of a Russian Woman seeking asylum.

I think his approval rating is going up. He is handling this fairly well at least for the moment.

This is the 2nd most traumatic event for Norway since it gained independence.

240 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:45:02pm

re: #236 ggt

What category does that fall under? Peer Pressure, Mob Mentality.

The being human and being scared category.

I'm sorry you had to experience it.

Thanks. Oh, and it's also accompanied by feelings of anger & resentment. But you just have to suck it up and carry on.

241 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:45:10pm

He looks like a cross country skiing assasin from an 80's James Bond movie.

Or maybe one of the arrogant rich skiers from the movie "Hot Dog"

242 darthstar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:46:02pm

Boehner holds breath, then lets it out. Poor bastard can't even throw a decent temper-tantrum. No wonder nobody in his own party has any respect for the orange fucker.

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:46:31pm

re: #241 Hawaii69

He looks like a cross country skiing assasin from an 80's James Bond movie.

Or maybe one of the arrogant rich skiers from the movie "Hot Dog"

I was thinking of the bad-guy characters from the first Die Hard movie.

244 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:46:43pm

re: #235 CuriousLurker

And it makes you feel guilty, even though you know you didn't do anything wrong. It's one of the suckiest feelings I've ever experienced.

Just - {{{hugs}}}

245 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:47:14pm

OT, but:
Gov. Perry: Gay marriage is states' rights issue

ASPEN, Colo. — Texas governor and potential Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry says he supports state rights so much that he's fine with New York allowing gay marriage.

Perry told several hundred potential GOP donors in Aspen, Colo., on Friday that he's an "unapologetic fiscal conservative" and opposes gay marriage but that he's also a strong believer in the 10th Amendment.

He says New York's decision is "their business" and that's fine with him.

I'd prefer same-sex marriage to be uniformly recognized among the states (just as I'd like concealed handgun licenses to be uniformly recognized), and that would probably necessitate some federal involvement,

BUT

I have to give Gov. Goodhair credit for not instantly defaulting to the standard Bryan Fischer rhetoric. A polite smattering of applause.

The question I have now is: how long until his spokespeople spin it 6 ways to Sunday, and say that he "misspoke" or whatever?

246 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:47:16pm

re: #238 ggt

Well, they have produced at least one Whackjob. Per capita I think they are at our level.

I meant in terms of staring down, or harrassing perceived muslims in the streets.

247 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:47:40pm

re: #244 reine.de.tout

Just - {{{hugs}}}

{{{Reine}}} Back atcha'. ;o)

248 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:48:28pm

re: #246 Hawaii69

I meant in terms of staring down, or harrassing perceived muslims in the streets.

I have an AA friend who gave me a talk about covert and overt racism a while back. She preferred overt.

249 pragmatist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:49:29pm

Unfortunately, this news will make Norway even more
anti-Israel. It might be tough to be a Muslim in Norway
tonight.

But it is a living hell to be a Jew in Norway all the time:

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

250 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:51:08pm

Younger version of Largo (Klaus Maria Brandauer) in "Never say never again".

Maybe we can finally get back to a simpler time when terrorists were fair skinned and blond, and spoke with stylish Eusopean accents....

251 darthstar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:52:00pm

re: #249 pragmatist

Unfortunately, this news will make Norway even more
anti-Israel. It might be tough to be a Muslim in Norway
tonight.

Israel had nothing to do with the bombing. Some white racist fuckwit has been arrested. And PJMedia has turned into a shitstain of a blog...best not to link it.

252 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:53:41pm
253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:54:29pm

Trolls are out tonite!

mmmmmm, who's cookin?

254 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:54:57pm

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

255 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:56:05pm

re: #254 oslogin

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

oh geez!

I'm sorry you are experiencing this in your own country.

There is no vocabulary word to describe what it feels like.

256 darthstar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:57:10pm

re: #254 oslogin

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

16 isn't 80. It's bad enough without lying about the numbers.

257 Digital Display  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:58:32pm

re: #254 oslogin

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

CNN is reporting 17
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

258 Hawaii69  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:59:44pm

re: #252 ggt

Judaism isn't even listed on the CIA Factbook for Norway:


Wiki Says there are 803 Jews in Norway.

"And though the Jews were rather small, they had to count them
all....andNowTheyKnowHowManyJewsItTakesToFill The Albert Haaaallllll...."

259 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 6:59:56pm

re: #256 darthstar

16 isn't 80. It's bad enough without lying about the numbers.

This is reported by the police as we speak. Also top story in Norwegian newspapers, such as vg.no.

260 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:00:16pm

re: #245 negativ

OT, but:
Gov. Perry: Gay marriage is states' rights issue

Feh, I don't trust any neo-secessionist Christian conservative bigot who claims states rights on social issues.

That ship has already sailed.

261 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:00:33pm

re: #252 ggt

Judaism isn't even listed on the CIA Factbook for Norway:

Wiki Says there are 803 Jews in Norway.

Other than the Church of Norway (Lutheran?) 85%, most other groups are low single digits. I bet money that the majority also only has low single digits that ever go to church.

262 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:03:20pm

re: #261 Naso Tang

Other than the Church of Norway (Lutheran?) 85%, most other groups are low single digits. I bet money that the majority also only has low single digits that ever go to church.

Church of Norway is the State Church.

I guess I don't know what that means in the modern world.

Historically, it was bad enough that we have an Constitutional Amendment banning such a thing.

263 zora  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:04:12pm

re: #259 oslogin

[Link: www.vg.no...]

264 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:04:49pm

re: #254 oslogin

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

OMG.
That is so awful.

265 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:04:56pm

And the police fears that the numbers will be even higher.

266 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:05:16pm

re: #253 ggt

Trolls are out tonite!

mmm, who's cookin?

I'll bring the Thai lemograss marinade.

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:06:35pm

re: #266 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'll bring the Thai lemograss marinade.

No, No, NO--GARLIC!

268 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:07:21pm

re: #263 zora

[Link: www.vg.no...]

Graphic about 1/2 way down shows the blast radius.

Sick fuck.

269 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:07:33pm

re: #267 ggt
mutters "damn"

270 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:08:27pm

re: #254 oslogin

Oh god no.

My grandparents are worried about some relatives. They live southwest of Oslo.

271 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:08:33pm

re: #269 PhillyPretzel

mutters "damn"

Well, we can do different marinades --I'm sure there will be enough Troll.

272 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:09:09pm

re: #259 oslogin

80? Damn. Sorry friend, so sorry you have to go through this .

273 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:09:55pm

re: #270 ProLifeLiberal

Oh god no.

My grandparents are worried about some relatives. They live southwest of Oslo.

The world is getting smaller and smaller.

People I know or their family members are all over the world. Makes you think twice when you read or hear the news.

274 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:09:56pm

Police: At least 80 killed in Utøya
Fears that the death toll will rise further
[Link: translate.google.com...]

275 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:10:37pm

CNN Reporting 80 now as well

276 Achilles Tang  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:10:43pm

re: #262 ggt

I think side discussions of this sort are out of place now. Another time.

277 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:11:29pm

re: #276 Naso Tang

I think side discussions of this sort are out of place now. Another time.

Yeah, need to do my own research too!

278 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:12:17pm

I have to go bathe the puppy.

bbl.

279 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:12:57pm

re: #270 ProLifeLiberal

Oh god no.

My grandparents are worried about some relatives. They live southwest of Oslo.

They're probably okay. Most victims are kids from the Labour Party Youth; seven are confirmed killed in Oslo bombing. 80 victims at Utøya, which lies northwest of Oslo. It was their summer camp; 560 young people there.

280 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:13:41pm

re: #272 Thanos

80? Damn. Sorry friend, so sorry you have to go through this .

I'm not a victim. I'm just utterly shocked.

281 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:14:27pm

re: #262 ggt

Norway is a Technical Theocracy.

I'm about to cry now. This has to be the darkest moment in Norway since WWII.

re: #273 ggt

I'll be seeing if Grandpa knows anything tomorrow. The island and the blast have a combined 87 dead.

This is worse than 7/7 in London. Pray for Norway.

282 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:14:47pm

re: #254 oslogin

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

Speechless, other than a string of curses. I hope that the victims and their families can find comfort in the following days.

283 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:16:45pm

re: #254 oslogin

Latest reports: At least 80 killed at Utøya.

re: #263 zora

[Link: www.vg.no...]

I knew I shouldn't have clicked. I want to know: WTF MAKES ANY ARROGANT BASTARD THINK HE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO THIS KIND OF SHIT?? I don't give a damn what your religion or race or nationality or political ideology is, NO GRIEVANCE—and I mean NONE—justifies robbing innocent people of their lives.

Nobody gets a pass on this. NOBODY. NO-FUCKING-BODY.

284 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:17:37pm

So this guy's the real deal? I mean. Internet wingnut anti-Jihadist turned terrorist? That's what it looks like from where I'm sitting.

285 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:19:41pm

re: #283 CuriousLurker

I'm feeling a mixture of sadness and rage.

Part of me wants to go flame Pam now. Considering his relationship to that site and Gates of Vienna.

286 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:21:26pm

re: #284 Gus 802

So this guy's the real deal? I mean. Internet wingnut anti-Jihadist turned terrorist? That's what it looks like from where I'm sitting.

It becomes increasingly apparent that is just exactly what he is. I have read a dozen of his comments on various web sites, since I can't go to sleep, anyway. They're pretty much the kind of stuff you can find posted on GoV or wherever.

287 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:27:14pm

re: #245 negativ

OT, but:
Gov. Perry: Gay marriage is states' rights issue

I'd prefer same-sex marriage to be uniformly recognized among the states (just as I'd like concealed handgun licenses to be uniformly recognized), and that would probably necessitate some federal involvement,

BUT

I have to give Gov. Goodhair credit for not instantly defaulting to the standard Bryan Fischer rhetoric. A polite smattering of applause.

The question I have now is: how long until his spokespeople spin it 6 ways to Sunday, and say that he "misspoke" or whatever?

As long as there are Federal benefits and laws pertaining to what a married couple is entitled to, its a Federal issue.

288 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:28:32pm

re: #286 oslogin

It becomes increasingly apparent that is just exactly what he is. I have read a dozen of his comments on various web sites, since I can't go to sleep, anyway. They're pretty much the kind of stuff you can find posted on GoV or wherever.

The violent tendencies of many of these so called anti-Jihadists has always been apparent. Many of us here can even attest to that. Muslims became the target of their inner rage. Yet at that same time, that rage was and is easily transferable towards other human beings.

289 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:29:47pm
290 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:31:06pm

re: #46 Naso Tang

Don't know who you came to that one. It is from an article written by a journalist criticising these people, and specifically the Danish version.

291 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:31:35pm

re: #288 Gus 802

The violent tendencies of many of these so called anti-Jihadists has always been apparent. Many of us here can even attest to that. Muslims became the target of their inner rage. Yet at that same time, that rage was and is easily transferable towards other human beings.

Including Charles and some other folks here.

292 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:32:42pm

Ghastly. If I am not mistaken, this will be the worst mass murder ever perpetrated by an individual with firearms. You can see in the pictures that it is a small island. The young people were trapped and the soul-dead monster hunted them down as they tried to flee or hide.
I know how most of you feel about vigilante justice and due process, but it would have been a mercy to all concerned if the perpetrator had been summarily killed right on the spot.

293 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:32:52pm

re: #291 reine.de.tout

And Norway just paid the cost for it.

Hopefully, Europe this will make Europe sober.

294 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:33:29pm

re: #285 ProLifeLiberal

I'm feeling a mixture of sadness and rage.

Part of me wants to go flame Pam now. Considering his relationship to that site and Gates of Vienna.

I'm mostly just pissed right now. Pissed at the arrogance and stupidity and bigotry of the people who do these things.

You'd be wasting your time flaming Pam. She doesn't give a damn. The only thing that matters to her is justifying & spreading her all-consuming hatred.

Haters are gonna hate, and the hard-core ones can't be reasoned with or rehabilitated. They are scum, a scourge upon the earth. May their days be short and their names forever covered in shame.

Now I'm going to leave before I say anything worse.

Take care, Lizards.

295 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:34:49pm

re: #292 Shiplord Kirel

Ghastly. If I am not mistaken, this will be the worst mass murder ever perpetrated by an individual with firearms. You can see in the pictures that it is a small island. The young people were trapped and the soul-dead monster hunted them down as they tried to flee or hide.
I know how most of you feel about vigilante justice and due process, but it would have been a mercy to all concerned if the perpetrator had been summarily killed right on the spot.

That's easy to say in hindsight. At the time it wasn't known if this was a lone gunman or something larger.

296 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:34:58pm

re: #294 CuriousLurker


there almost isnt a bad thing you can say about geller or her right wing "anti-jihad" movement

297 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:36:40pm

Look at what Qaddafi's Government said about the terrorist act:

At a press conference in Tripoli Moussa Ibrahim , a spokesman for the Qaddafi government, said that "We never support any acts of terrorism whatsoever." But added "

NATO is planting terrorism in the hearts of many.

This is unfortunate and sad." Muammar Gaddafi had previously threatened Europe with terror attacks.

Go To Hell Qaddafi! Saying a nation deserved this not even 18 hours after the attack.

This only adds to the anger. Let's shove Qaddafi and Pamela into the same room. They'd love each other.

298 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:38:16pm
299 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:38:29pm

I went out to Stormfront to see what the WN crowd is saying about this and see that they now have all forums password protected and no longer public.

300 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:40:14pm

re: #298 pragmatist

Go. To. Hell.

The bodies aren't even cold yet, and you are saying they deserved this?

You are unworthy of being called human, to paraphrase an Iranian Muslim Scholar.

301 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:41:36pm

Seeing the Fjords

From: Snopes
Country: Norway

Claim: Some supermarket chains in Norway have decided to place special identification stickers on products from Israel to protest Israeli actions in their conflict with the Palestinian Authority.

Status: False

302 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:41:51pm

re: #298 pragmatist


Fuck off.

303 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:41:55pm

From the Norwegian Police Security Service Annual Threat Assessment:

Far-right extremist groups
Far-right extremists in Norway have only been slightly active in recent years. However, the trend that saw an increased level of activity in 2010 is expected to continue in 2011. Several players would like to revive the far-right extremist communities. However, the lack of strong leaders limits the growth of these groups. There are indications of contact between Norwegian far-right extremists and organised criminal groups. This could give the far-right extremist groups easier access to weapons and thereby increase the potential for violence. While the need for a sense of belonging and the fascination with violence are often strong reasons
why many young persons are recruited to far-right extremist groups, the ideology appears to be a secondary factor. Norwegian far-right extremists are in contact with Swedish far-right extremists, as well as with other far-right extremist groups in Europe. Contact also takes place between Norwegian and Russian far-right extremists. The Russian groups are much more violent than other European groups and commit several scores of killings annually, mainly of ethnic minorities. They therefore have a high status within these extremist groups. Contact with Russian far-right extremists can contribute to an increased radicalisation and reduce the threshold for the use of violence by the Norwegian groups.
304 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:42:27pm

re: #298 pragmatist

Get the hell off my website.

305 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:42:52pm

re: #298 pragmatist

A pair of monkeys fucking on a keyboard in the midst of an epileptic seizure would make more intelligent posts than you.

306 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:43:17pm

re: #298 pragmatist


You trying to imply that these murdered kids were a bunch of Jew haters?

I hope not.

307 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:43:22pm

Norway helps Israelis fight fire - 2010

A Norwegian helicopter with specialist firefighting crew has been helping Israel’s battle against the ferocious forest fire on Mount Carmel near Haifa in the north.

308 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:43:32pm

re: #302 Shiplord Kirel

Not strong enough.

309 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:43:38pm

re: #298 pragmatist

So because the Norwegian government has a policy you don't like, its perfectly understandable if someone decides to blow up civilians and shoot kids at a summer camp?

Fuck you.

310 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:43:46pm

Every time I see a pic of this guy's face I can't help but think that he would look perfect in an SS uniform.

311 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:43:54pm

Twitter / @pamelageller: Heads Explode: Libelblogge ...

Heads Explode: Libelblogger Charles Johnson is claiming that the Norway shooter is a "Pamela Geller fan," and th... [Link: bit.ly...]

312 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:44:48pm

re: #310 JasonA

Every time I see a pic of this guy's face I can't help but think that he would look perfect in an SS uniform.

I think the Quislings had their own uniforms actually.

313 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:45:00pm

Just this afternoon, my tea party neighbor was bitching about Napolitano allegedly characterizing "white males" as terrorists. (I didn't bother to look it up, some kind of Limbaugh/Drudge bullshit no doubt.)
I hope I don't see this neighbor tonight. I would like to put him on a plane, take him to Norway, and force him to help clean up the carnage.

314 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:45:11pm

Another member of the 2004 class bares his non-existent genitals and flounces. The blog is getting more intelligent the more they leave.

315 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:45:15pm

Damn. What an asshole. Blaming the victim (Norway). Some Pragmatist. More like another extremist nut.

316 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:45:26pm

re: #292 Shiplord Kirel

Ghastly. If I am not mistaken, this will be the worst mass murder ever perpetrated by an individual with firearms. You can see in the pictures that it is a small island. The young people were trapped and the soul-dead monster hunted them down as they tried to flee or hide.
I know how most of you feel about vigilante justice and due process, but it would have been a mercy to all concerned if the perpetrator had been summarily killed right on the spot.

I want something worse for him. Keep him alive and as miserable as possible, indefinitely.

317 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:46:28pm

Over at VNN they are leading with "It's because Norway supports Zionism".... not even going to link it.

318 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:47:30pm

From Norway With Love - 2008 IDF

With rockets falling on Sderot and Ashkelon and IDF troops engaged in intense combat in and around Gaza, now would not seem an ideal time to visit the Holy Land. But for a group of post high school students from Norway no time is better than the present to explore this small country. For over 30 years, students attending Nordhordland Folkehogskule, a post high school Christian boarding school, have come to Israel to take in the sites and show their support. The students visit the usual tourist sites, such as the Sea of Galilee and the Western Wall, but the school also makes a point to arrange an a meeting with Israel Defense Force soldiers . At this meeting the students are giving the opportunity to see a different side of the army. "We want the students too meet soldiers, who are the same age as them, so they can better understand how it is to live as a young adult in Israel," explained Ronald Oyen, a teacher and chaperon of the trip.

Monday night the group gathered at the Ramat Rachel Hotel, outside of Jerusalem, for a panel discussion with four Lone Soldiers. The students had a chance to ask the soldiers, who all hail from the US, a variety of questions that ranged from what training was like to, whether they have time for a girlfriend or boyfriend.

When asked why he left his family to join an army of a country that spoke a foreign language, that has different customs and a different mentality, Eitan, a Lone Soldier serving in the Air force replied, "I love this country and I knew I had to support it." Daniel, sitting on Eitan's right and a cadet in the Officers Training Course, simply said, "It's my duty."

After the panel discussion the students and soldiers mingled in the hotel lobby for a more intimate chat. The students admitted they were uneasy about visiting Israel, a place they only knew from their TV's, portrayed in the news as a country constantly at war. "I thought Israel was a war zone," said Marita, 20 years old. "I had no idea it is so modern and the people are so friendly." Her friend added, "At first when you see so many soldiers everywhere you get a little nervous but after meeting them I feel safer when they are around."

As the event came to a close, students exchanged emails and promised to keep in contact through Facebook. "It was really important for me to show them the sense of pride we feel for Israel serving as its soldiers," summed up Eitan, walking towards the bus that would take him back to base.

319 tommysilver  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:47:59pm

okay I understand why my comment was deleted, I apologize -- haven't felt anger like this in years -- need to channel into something productive...

320 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:48:05pm

re: #317 Thanos

Over at VNN they are leading with "It's because Norway supports Zionism"... not even going to link it.

But wait, I thought it was because they didn't support Israel...
/

321 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:48:27pm

re: #311 Charles

Let's confront their community. Her support of fanatics like him have left 87 dead, including 80 children.

322 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:48:48pm

re: #317 Thanos

Over at VNN they are leading with "It's because Norway supports Zionism"... not even going to link it.

VNN-lite, aka whatreallyhappened.com, is more on the "because Norway doesn't support Zionism" trip.

Like clockwork...

323 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:49:42pm

re: #317 Thanos

Over at VNN they are leading with "It's because Norway supports Zionism"... not even going to link it.

There are never any winners in this. Bigots will try to spin tragedies like this anyway to fit their warped, made-up realities. Meanwhile, there are way too many widows, widowers, and grieving parents who don't give a fucking shit about spin from bigots like those at the GoV and such.

324 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:50:05pm

re: #311 Charles

Yeesh. Well if this Fjordman thing rings true (which is shockingly bizarre and makes sense all at once) than all of them have something to answer for. He was the cat's meow at the time.

325 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:50:06pm
326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:50:13pm

re: #321 ProLifeLiberal

Let's confront their community. Her support of fanatics like him have left 87 dead, including 80 children.

Hasty.

327 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:51:29pm

Having had discussions with people in Sweden and Austria about Israel when I lived in both of those places, it is possible to persuade folks that most of Israel's actions are justified. You do this calmly and with facts. You don't do this by automatically calling them Jew haters.

328 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:51:41pm

Thinking here for a moment. You know. In light of Pragmatist's comments regarding Norway, I wonder how long before the anti-Jihad nuts on the internet start seeing Anders Behring Breivik as a hero of some sort. If not perhaps secretly.

329 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:54:35pm

re: #326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I should admit that I think Fjordman is the same person as our terrorist in Norway.

330 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:55:39pm

re: #325 MikeySDCA

BBC: Norway police: 'Eighty killed' in island shooting

From that link:

The attacks are the worst Norway has seen since World War II. Hundreds of young people were attending the summer camp organised by the ruling Labour Party on Utoeya island.

So is it fair to say the shooter had a grudge against the Labor Party's take on immigration? I'm having a hard time deciphering the politics. Or maybe that's a question for oslogin. Or did you guys discuss that already.

331 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:56:03pm

Over at Free Republic some are still running with "it's islamists" while that zero hedge spammer, Tyler Durden, is actually posting the truth.

332 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 7:58:32pm

re: #329 ProLifeLiberal

I should admit that I think Fjordman is the same person as our terrorist in Norway.

Over at GoV, they're all saying it wasn't him and asking him to come and make some comments to prove it, but he's been a no show.

333 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:00:24pm

re: #332 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Over at GoV, they're all saying it wasn't him and asking him to come and make some comments to prove it, but he's been a no show.

Sergey said he was commenting earlier today, though.

334 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:00:35pm

re: #329 ProLifeLiberal

I should admit that I think Fjordman is the same person as our terrorist in Norway.

I'm just saying, confront those sites, and then what happens? What would be the goal?

335 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:00:56pm

Anti-xenophobia political workshop at Utøya

To Fight Against Xenophobia
....In her introduction she also warned against the blåbrune right parties that have gained considerable influence in European politics.

- After the Berlin Wall's fall was Islamophobia the dominant form of European racism. The more unacceptable form of general racism, was linked to the Muslims. "They can not integrate. They lack manners. They'll just exploit our welfare system. They are potential terrorists. " All of this is found in the online debates in all matters relating to integration and immigration, she said.
[Link: translate.google.com...]


Google translation; maybe someone can do better.

336 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:01:48pm

re: #311 Charles

Twitter / @pamelageller: Heads Explode: Libelblogge ...

Am I an awful awful person for finding it hilariously funny that in the following sentence, which is intended as an insult to you, "sink" is underlined twice in the original, and the thing that pops up is an ad for kitchen countertops?

This shows how desperate Johnson is, and how low he will sink.

337 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:02:02pm

Dig a Pony

338 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:04:40pm

re: #327 SpaceJesus

Having had discussions with people in Sweden and Austria about Israel when I lived in both of those places, it is possible to persuade folks that most of Israel's actions are justified. You do this calmly and with facts. You don't do this by automatically calling them Jew haters.

I would point out that you might also be able to make the same sort of persuasive inroads with conservatives and gosh, maybe even suthreners, if you were so inclined, rather than name-calling.

339 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:06:23pm

Eighty dead in a country of five million. Social trauma doesn't scale directly with the casualties/population ratio, but still.

340 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:07:38pm

By way of Jeffery Goldberg at the Atlantic and MyFoxPhoenix...

Breivik had set up his own business, Breivik Geofarm, and a month ago had started to run an organic farm in Hedmark in eastern Norway. There he reportedly produced and stored fertilizers that he was able to use in explosives.

He was known to be active on the internet, expressing extremist Islamophobic views on forums and criticizing immigration policies.

He recently claimed that politics today was not about socialism vs. capitalism but nationalism vs. internationalism. He argued on a Swedish news website that the media were not critical enough about Islam and claimed that Geert Wilders' Party for Freedom in the Netherlands was the only "true" party of conservatives.

He argued that socialism was breaking down traditions, culture, national identity and other societal structures and that this in turn made society weak and confused.

On July 17 he set up a Facebook and Twitter account, posting a single tweet, "One person with a belief is equal to the force of 100,000 who have only interests."

He claimed to be well-read and worshiped the Norwegian World War II hero Max Manus. On his Facebook profile he listed his favorite books as "The Trial" by Franz Kafka and "Nineteen Eighty-Four" by George Orwell and his favorite television show as "Dexter," a series about a Miami police forensics expert who moonlights as a serial killer of criminals whom he believes have escaped justice.

341 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:07:42pm

re: #338 reine.de.tout


Eh, tried that. Doesn't work so well. Too many Southern folk have this "I'm set in my ways" mentality, whereas most Europeans tend to be more open-minded, and interested in a good discussion over beers and coffee.

342 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:08:39pm

re: #338 reine.de.tout

are you mad by the way? you do understand when i say "we should sell the south to north korea for a dollar" im joking right

343 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:10:17pm

re: #339 jvic

As near as I can see this is the 3rd Worst Terrorist Attack in Europe since World War II.

Only the Madrid Bombings and Pan Am 103 were worse.

344 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:10:46pm

re: #342 SpaceJesus

are you mad by the way? you do understand when i say "we should sell the south to north korea for a dollar" im joking right

I would not buy that for a dollar.

345 William of Orange  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:11:24pm

This is what She-devil herself writes on Atlas Shruggs. No link given of course, just the source.

Libelblogger Charles Johnson is claiming that the Norway shooter is a "Pamela Geller fan," and that he is actually Fjordman, whose articles I have published here at Atlas on occasion. He has persisted in this even though Fjordman is online tonight and clearly not under arrest. This shows how desperate Johnson is, and how low he will sink. In reality, the shooter is not Fjordman. I have met Fjordman, I know his identity, and he is not Anders Breivik. This is just a sinister attempt to tar all anti-jihadists with responsibility for this man's heinous actions.

Bla bla fucking blah...

More pictures of the alledged shooter.

346 Drogheda  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:11:40pm

Thursday at Utøya

Jonas Gahr Store: - The occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now

This may have pissed the suspect off a bit.

347 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:11:42pm

re: #341 SpaceJesus

Eh, tried that. Doesn't work so well. Too many Southern folk have this "I'm set in my ways" mentality, whereas most Europeans tend to be more open-minded, and interested in a good discussion over beers and coffee.

Seriously?

Most Europeans?

Hungary has just resurrected the goddamn fascist paramilitary groups and are murdering Roma, you know.

The Italians are burning the camps of the Roma and refusing to investigate their murders.

Romania, too, the Roma murdered, kids stolen from them, forced sterilization still goddamn going on.

And things like that do not happen without the support of the population.

I'm fine with saying we can talk reasonably, but for fuck's sake, don't gild the turd in your desire to wage rhetorical battles against US Southerners.

348 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:12:09pm

Ed Morissey still hasn't updated his last update on this story.

Update IV: There has now been a shooting at a Norwegian youth camp that wounded five people that the media reports may be linked to the bomb attack. Sounds a little like a Mumbai scenario might be unfolding, and the web site Jihadica says that an al-Qaeda-affiliated website has a claim of responsibility from a group named Helpers of Global Jihad, via Poor Richard’s News.
349 William of Orange  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:12:32pm

One thing is for sure. This will drive Foxnews from the frontpages the coming days....

350 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:12:33pm

re: #339 jvic

The casualty population ratio for this is higher than that of the US for 9/11.

This is going to be a turning point in some way for Norway.

351 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:13:03pm

re: #344 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would not buy that for a dollar.

Upding for Robocop.

Also currently in airport, waiting for flight to Seattle via Taiwan and LAX.

352 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:13:20pm

re: #347 Obdicut

Key word here is most. Hungary and Romania don't constitute most.

353 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:14:33pm

re: #352 SpaceJesus

Key word here is most. Hungary and Romania don't constitute most.

What does, then? France is deporting the Roma, Switzerland is making them stateless, Poland is deporting them. Name me a state in Europe that treats the Roma well, I dare you. It's pretty much just Scandinavia, and even then it's not exactly the warmest treatment.

Seriously, other than Scandinavia, name me countries in Europe that are good to Roma.

354 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:14:53pm

Cannot wait to see the "Progress" Party in Norway's explanation for this. They have been fanning the flames of anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, nationalist hysteria for years.

355 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:14:53pm
356 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:15:38pm

Oh, and btw, the article in "The REALISTAN" is the one that put the finger on Fjordman, not Charles so Geller can stuff it.

If you click the link in Charles' article there is an update.

Updated at. 03:37 03:37
Data in the evening argues that Fjordman during the day writing an article and thus can not be identical with Anders Behring Breivik. Our information is based on Breivik for about a year ago myself claimed to be the blogger Fjordman. Of course, the task to be inaccurate, if not so many writers hid behind the name. The fact that several people tonight gave himself for being Fjordman suggests that it could be the case. If Fjordman feel unduly singled out, he is welcome with a clarification. Breivik, among other things on his Facebook page earlier expressed the same opinions as Fjordman has spread in their texts so we did not see reason to distrust his own statement that he was the man behind the pseudonym.

357 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:15:41pm

re: #293 ProLifeLiberal

And Norway just paid the cost for it.

Hopefully, Europe this will make Europe sober.

Oh, absolutely.
I was more responding to Gus' we've "seen it here".

358 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:16:25pm

re: #354 erraticsphinx

This could be bad for them. I'm getting the feeling Norway is going to remain with a leftest government for a while.

359 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:16:32pm

REALISTEN pardon me.

360 sagehen  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:16:42pm

re: #339 jvic

Eighty dead in a country of five million. Social trauma doesn't scale directly with the casualties/population ratio, but still.

so on a per capita basis... that's more than 9/11.

361 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:17:13pm

re: #342 SpaceJesus

are you mad by the way? you do understand when i say "we should sell the south to north korea for a dollar" im joking right

Yes! Of course I know that!
I just thought it might be a time to point out, well, what I pointed out.

362 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:17:48pm

re: #358 ProLifeLiberal

This could be bad for them. I'm getting the feeling Norway is going to remain with a leftest government for a while.

Least we won't have to invade Libya over it.

363 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:18:15pm

re: #341 SpaceJesus

Eh, tried that. Doesn't work so well. Too many Southern folk have this "I'm set in my ways" mentality, whereas most Europeans tend to be more open-minded, and interested in a good discussion over beers and coffee.

Huh? So are you comparing metropolitan Europeans with bucolic Southerners? What would happen if you compared bucolic Europeans with metropolitan Southerners?

364 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:18:43pm

re: #354 erraticsphinx

Cannot wait to see the "Progress" Party in Norway's explanation for this. They have been fanning the flames of anti-immigrant, anti-muslim, nationalist hysteria for years.

They'll go with the Bill O'Reilly "it was a free speech critique, not incitement" defense.

365 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:18:51pm

re: #350 ProLifeLiberal

The casualty population ratio for this is higher than that of the US for 9/11.

This is going to be a turning point in some way for Norway.

I didn't want to post that. I figured many people would infer it.

Don't misunderstand: I updinged you. The statistic should be posted. But I didn't want to.

366 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:19:20pm

re: #353 Obdicut

Are you trying to say that France is as racist as Mississippi or something

367 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:19:57pm

87 dead. 80 from the island where the youth camp was meeting. the bomb was to get the PM. The attack on the island was to kill the children of his Party's members.

I'm thinking hard, but I cannot for the life of me remember anything so vile, putrid, and evil. This is worse than 9/11, in that it targeted children.

I'm glad he was captured. I want to know *everything* about this cocksucking, motherfucking, son-of-a-bitch and everyone who he knows.

It beggars belief that he acted alone in building a truck bomb that large, detonated it remotely, and walked to a back-up car to drive to the ferry that took him to that island.

He is not alone in this, I believe. I want to see all of his friends. I want to see them all rot in prison for the rest of their lives. May the pictures of their victims be laminated on their walls so they must look, every day, on what they took from their own country.

368 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:20:04pm

LGF is way, way, way ahead of the (I hate using this word) mainstream media on this. Most American news outlets are still sticking with the "nobody knows the motive...but oooh, scary muslims have been scary here in the past".

Love this blog.

369 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:20:41pm

re: #339 jvic

Eighty dead in a country of five million. Social trauma doesn't scale directly with the casualties/population ratio, but still.


Proportionally it's worse than 9/11, and you know what 9/11 did to this country. Heightened terror alerts on what seemed to be a daily basis, etc. I lived in NoVa at the time, and for a while we had the military patrolling the streets of D.C.

If Norway winds up a little scarred from this, it's certainly something I understand.

370 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:20:52pm

re: #366 SpaceJesus

Are you trying to say that France is as racist as Mississippi or something

Jean Marie Le Pen placed second in a Presidential election.

That kinda shit scares you awake.

371 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:21:22pm
372 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:21:30pm

re: #361 reine.de.tout

Maybe you're right. Maybe my experiences with Southern folk are circumscribed. Maybe I'll try better next time around.

373 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:21:31pm

re: #366 SpaceJesus

Are you trying to say that France is as racist as Mississippi or something

I'm not trying to make any comparative statement at all. I'm pointing out that saying most Europeans are reasonable, especially in the context of minorities, holds water just fine until you get to the Roma. Then even most of the 'liberal' people will say that the Roma are thieves and they're not even really from there etc. etc. It's the shame of Europe, and any attempt to minimize it sucks.

I normally have no problem with your schtick, but today, man, give it a goddamn rest.

374 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:21:43pm

re: #367 austin_blue

I'm thinking hard, but I cannot for the life of me remember anything so vile, putrid, and evil. This is worse than 9/11, in that it targeted children.

Beslan.

375 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:22:18pm

GoV: No Jihad Angle — Or Is There?

/facepalm

376 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:22:22pm

re: #367 austin_blue

It beggars belief that he acted alone in building a truck bomb that large, detonated it remotely, and walked to a back-up car to drive to the ferry that took him to that island.


You're right.

377 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:22:35pm

re: #374 jvic

Beslan.

Different. Not political.

378 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:22:46pm

re: #345 William of Orange

This is what She-devil herself writes on Atlas Shruggs. No link given of course, just the source.

"This is just a sinister attempt to tar all anti-jihadists with responsibility for this man's heinous actions."

Aww tut-tut, another dumb con bigot is sniffling about being broad brushed, when that's all her own site does to others.

She can go cry me the Pacific Ocean.

379 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:23:25pm

re: #378 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Aww tut-tut, another dumb con bigot is sniffling about being broad brushed, when that's all her own site does to others.

She can go cry me the Pacific Ocean.

It's really sad how may right-wing blogs haven't even updated with the latest information.

They can't handle it.

380 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:23:41pm

Eric Boehlert tweets:
Do I even have to mention idiot @andrewbreitbart blogger @atlasshrugs spent the day condemning Muslim "jihad" unfolding in Norway?

381 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:24:27pm

re: #379 Obdicut

It's really sad how may right-wing blogs haven't even updated with the latest information.

They can't handle it.

I deride your truth handling capabilities!

382 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:24:50pm

re: #363 Gus 802


How many Europeans do you think believe Obama isn't an American citizen

383 Kruk  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:25:01pm

Remember the Faux outrage a few days when a DHS security awareness video showed a white person planting a video? Because such things never happen, right?

384 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:25:03pm

re: #369 BongCrodny

Norway's reaction to this thus far has been impressive.

"No one will bomb us to silence. No one will shoot us to silence. No one will ever scare us away from being Norway."
-Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg

They basically said "fuck you" to the neo-fascists.

385 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:25:43pm

re: #377 austin_blue

Different. Not political.

I'll rephrase. Not political like this. Beslan was serial killers on a holiday. They killed *everyone* they could. This was a strike against a single political party.

386 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:26:10pm

GoV is trying to claim that the bomb was likely designed by Muslim terrorists, so its obviously Jihad related.

Epic fail.

387 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:26:14pm

re: #340 Gus 802

By way of Jeffery Goldberg at the Atlantic and MyFoxPhoenix...

I think the xenophobic have a big problem with what I call Not In My Front Yard syndrome.

I think we all have a big of Not in My Back Yard Syndrome. We believe in the castle doctrine and extend that to the fenced in parts of our yard.--the part where we like to think our kids are safe, etc.

Front Yard, is kinda part of the larger neighborhood. You talk to people, but don't always invite them into the back yard. You can't control who walks by.

The Xenophobic want to control who walks by. . . .

Well, if you want to survive economically in the Brave New World, it's time to accept that our Front Yard is the whole globe and everyone in it walks by.

388 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:26:50pm

re: #347 Obdicut


I'm fine with saying we can talk reasonably, but for fuck's sake, don't gild the turd in your desire to wage rhetorical battles against US Southerners.


I've quoted this before, but for me it never loses its punch:

"Ya know, racism is a worldwide problem and it's been since the beginning of recorded history…and it ain't just white and black…but thanks to George Wallace, it's always a little more convenient to play it with a Southern accent."

-- Drive By Truckers, "The Three Great Alabama Icons

389 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:26:55pm

re: #384 ProLifeLiberal


"No one will bomb us to silence. No one will shoot us to silence. No one will ever scare us away from being Norway."
-Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg

Fuck, there's a Viking battlecry joke in there somewhere.

/please bear with my complete desensitivization to these sort of things

390 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:27:13pm

re: #367 austin_blue

I'm glad he was captured. I want to know *everything* about this cocksucking, motherfucking, son-of-a-bitch and everyone who he knows.

OT - I wonder how come heterosexual women are never put down as "cocksuckers", even though they're the ones sucking cock in far greater numbers than gay men.

391 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:27:46pm

re: #386 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GoV is trying to claim that the bomb was likely designed by Muslim terrorists, so its obviously Jihad related.

Epic fail.

This bomb can't be there handiwork. It went off.

392 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:28:05pm

re: #389 laZardo

No, that is the rousing speech someone does before battle.

393 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:28:28pm

re: #379 Obdicut


I noticed that! The usual armchair commando suspects have been quiet as crickets for the past few hours.

Some of them are going through the typical "can't be a white guy, he had to have muslim help" ideas that bigots must automatically return to.

394 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:29:05pm

re: #391 JasonA

This bomb can't be their handiwork. It went off.

doh

395 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:29:19pm
396 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:29:44pm

re: #391 JasonA

This bomb can't be there handiwork. It went off.

Ah, but the design was theirs.

Never mind you could probably download the same design off the internet somewhere.

Fucktards.

397 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:29:48pm

re: #388 BongCrodny

I've quoted this before, but for me it never loses its punch:

"Ya know, racism is a worldwide problem and it's been since the beginning of recorded history…and it ain't just white and black…but thanks to George Wallace, it's always a little more convenient to play it with a Southern accent."

-- Drive By Truckers, "The Three Great Alabama Icons

Mark Twain redeems the genteel Southern accent.

0:

398 Kruk  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:30:17pm

re: #390 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OT - I wonder how come heterosexual women are never put down as "cocksuckers", even though they're the ones sucking cock in far greater numbers than gay men.

Given that the number of gendered epithets in common use is heavily slanted against women, I'll give them a pass on this one.

399 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:31:19pm

re: #395 varun

Stop pussyfooting around and just say what you came to say.

400 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:31:25pm

re: #388 BongCrodny

I've quoted this before, but for me it never loses its punch:

"Ya know, racism is a worldwide problem and it's been since the beginning of recorded history…and it ain't just white and black…but thanks to George Wallace, it's always a little more convenient to play it with a Southern accent."

-- Drive By Truckers, "The Three Great Alabama Icons

Sort of, except out here, they don't have southern accents, they sound like news casters.

401 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:31:43pm

re: #393 erraticsphinx

I've already seen like twenty comments about how he must have been someone the Islamacists found and recruited.

How they're managing to believe that when the guy was a radical anti-Islamacist, I have no idea. This isn't the IRA and the PLO training together, neither of whom particularly love Jews and have no beef with each other.

They're desperate in their rationalization, which is weird. I mean, they haven't actually killed anyone, and unless they've advocated shit like this, this guy isn't really of them. Yet they obviously feel that he very much is.

402 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:31:44pm

Now they're comparing this attack to the Reichstag fires.

403 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:31:50pm

re: #399 jaunte

Just a whole lotta wonderin'.

404 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:32:01pm

re: #395 varun

just wondering how many posts fjordman authored on this blog?

What time period are you attempting to reference?

405 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:32:13pm

re: #399 jaunte

Stop pussyfooting around and just say what you came to say.

You're catching the same vibe, huh?

406 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:33:33pm

re: #395 varun

Quite a few comments, it took us a while to sniff him out as he always ran under the guise of protecting tradition and culture and he pedaled quite a bit softer in those days. It wasn't until Charles & others started going hammer and tongs against the Eurofascists that the mask fully fell off.

407 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:33:48pm

re: #402 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now they're comparing this attack to the Reichstag fires.

Who is, the bigots?

408 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:33:51pm

re: #405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're catching the same vibe, huh?

Seem to be a few sleepers and . . . ..

409 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:34:05pm

re: #367 austin_blue

87 dead. 80 from the island where the youth camp was meeting. the bomb was to get the PM. The attack on the island was to kill the children of his Party's members.

I'm thinking hard, but I cannot for the life of me remember anything so vile, putrid, and evil. This is worse than 9/11, in that it targeted children.

I'm glad he was captured. I want to know *everything* about this cocksucking, motherfucking, son-of-a-bitch and everyone who he knows.

It beggars belief that he acted alone in building a truck bomb that large, detonated it remotely, and walked to a back-up car to drive to the ferry that took him to that island.

He is not alone in this, I believe. I want to see all of his friends. I want to see them all rot in prison for the rest of their lives. May the pictures of their victims be laminated on their walls so they must look, every day, on what they took from their own country.

I've also been wondering if there could be an accomplice who is either still hiding on the island or who managed to slip away with the survivors. We know the killer used a handgun, a shotgun, and an automatic rifle. He also had to have a lot of ammunition. Yet, none of the witnesses who saw him in his fake police uniform mentioned him carrying an unusual amount of hardware. They would have noticed that if they initially mistook him for a legitimate cop, as some apparently did. Finally, I believe it is possible for one person to kill 80 people with gunfire if they are bunched together and cannot escape but it still seems an inordinately high number for one shooter over a short time.

410 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:34:23pm

re: #405 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're catching the same vibe, huh?


Me, too.

My hackles hackled.

411 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:34:25pm

re: #402 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, they always go there because they can't help but think like...

412 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:34:31pm

The more I sit with this, the less I have to say. Edna St. Vincent Millay wouldn't mind if I change her context a bit:

Convert again into explosives the bewildered ammonia and the distracted cellulose;
Convert again into putrescent matter drawing flies
The hopeful bodies of the young; exhort,
Pray, pull long faces, be earnest, be all but overcome, be photographed;
Confer, perfect your formulae, commercialize
Becteria harmful to human tissue,
Put death on the market;
Breed, crowd, encroach, expand, expunge yourself, die out,
Homo called sapiens.
413 abolitionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:34:57pm

re: #395 varun

just wondering how many posts fjordman authored on this blog?

Won't guess; I think they got wiped by our host.

414 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:35:08pm

re: #382 SpaceJesus

How many Europeans do you think believe Obama isn't an American citizen

Not many.

My wife and I go to the UK once or twice a year. We take public transportation whenever possible. Since She Who Must Be Obeyed routinely travels with an one of her multi-stringed axes, we generally use hire cars. Whenever we travel there, the first question from the driver is "Where are you from in America?" In the Shrub years, we said "Austin, Texas" and always got a look in the rearview mirror of concern. Our next line? "It's okay, we didn't vote for him." Big smiles and it was all hail fellow well met.

The last two years, we as Americans have been met with really big grins. "We love your President!"

415 Kruk  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:35:12pm

re: #401 Obdicut

I've already seen like twenty comments about how he must have been someone the Islamacists found and recruited..

Heh. Despite sitting through an NCIS marathon- my wife has a mad crush on Agent Gibbs- I can't buy this guy as Ari Haswari in reverse.

416 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:35:14pm

re: #407 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Who is, the bigots?

Gates of Vienna

417 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:35:24pm

re: #406 Thanos

Quite a few comments, it took us a while to sniff him out as he always ran under the guise of protecting tradition and culture

Not much of a guise. Red flag. Scratch a tradition/culture "protectionist", find a kkk/n$zi.

Never. Fails.

418 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:36:41pm
419 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:36:56pm

I remember reading somewhere, in Thomas Merton's writings perhaps, that if the only thing you do is fight evil, then your continual involvement with the evil will eventually turn you evil too.

& I bet this happens just as well if you are fighting something perhaps not really evil, but that you think it is.

420 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:37:09pm

IIRC, post 9/11 we were all highly motivated to learn alot of history we never knew. GoV had a lot of that stuff.

Just seemed we learned more from the history lesson than others . . . .

421 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:37:35pm

re: #416 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gates of Vienna

Ah. The bigots. Thanks.

"Reichstag fire"...please. Image: shipment_of_fail.jpg

422 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:37:36pm

re: #418 varun

just wondering. I googled fjordman and found this blog. dug around. found he was a contributor. was surprised this place had a neonazi past


I forget -- is this strike two or three?

423 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:37:42pm
424 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:38:17pm

re: #423 varun

thought this was a progressive blog through and through

Why the fuck would you think a dumb thing like that?

425 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:38:23pm

re: #382 SpaceJesus

How many Europeans do you think believe Obama isn't an American citizen

What's the point? That the South is bad? Are we going to look at the South's history and slavery? I can easily bring up Germany, Austria, and Italy's history and National Socialism and the holocaust. Hitler was from Austria -- a European. Geert Wilders is a European. Le Pen, is a European. Anders Behring Breivik that committed this atrocity today, is a European. Skinhead soccer hooligans are European.

The South does not have a monopoly on what I believe you are referring to. You can go 10 miles outside of the Seattle city limits and find the same mentality. The same with San Francisco or even within the San Francisco city limit. I'm not talking Republican politicians here. I'm talking about people. Go to Staten Island or better yet Long Island where you'll find pockets of hate in any given neighborhood.

Beautiful Game Turned Ugly: Racism in Europe's Soccer Arenas

426 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:38:25pm

re: #367 austin_blue

. . .

It beggars belief that he acted alone in building a truck bomb that large, detonated it remotely, and walked to a back-up car to drive to the ferry that took him to that island.

He is not alone in this, I believe. I want to see all of his friends. I want to see them all rot in prison for the rest of their lives. May the pictures of their victims be laminated on their walls so they must look, every day, on what they took from their own country.

Yeah, hard to believe he could do all of that all by himself. I'm looking forward to watching this play out to see what happens and who gets caught up in this mix.

427 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:38:33pm

re: #423 varun

thought this was a progressive blog through and through

This is Charles's Blog.

No other definition needed.

428 [deleted]  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:38:52pm
429 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:38:59pm

re: #418 varun

just wondering. I googled fjordman and found this blog. dug around. found he was a contributor. was surprised this place had a neonazi past

So you just googled Fjordman, found here, and you joined 4 days before this even happened, then waited till today to finally comment?

Bullshit.

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:39:14pm

re: #398 Kruk

Given that the number of gendered epithets in common use is heavily slanted against women, I'll give them a pass on this one.

Oh, I'm not saying anyone should. I'm asking, why don't they?

431 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:39:33pm

re: #428 varun

uh, I can read the internet

Not as well as we can read you.

432 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:39:58pm

re: #428 varun

uh, I can read the internet

Oh, I see.

Which internet?

Are you aware of all internet traditions?

433 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:40:05pm

re: #427 ggt

Yes, Charles kicked out the neo-nazi flavored types and/or they left when he called them out.

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:40:30pm

I hope he is executed, too.

435 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:40:31pm

re: #418 varun

It doesn't. This blog attracts people who want to be influential, as such there are quite a few extremists who have come here and subsequently been outed by smart lizards in the past. Seeing that you have neg seven karma and few posts I wouldn't be surprised to see you get outed one day either.

436 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:40:32pm

re: #429 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So you just googled Fjordman, found here, and you joined 4 days before this even happened, then waited till today to finally comment?

Bullshit.

Yeah - this one's not passing the smell test, IMO.

437 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:40:43pm

re: #428 varun

uh, I can read the internet

I am Aware of All Internet Traditions!!11ty

438 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:40:59pm

re: #428 varun

uh, I can read the internet

Yes, you can. But did you read any of this blog prior to catching one of the joining opportunities?

It appears to most of us the answer is "no".

439 Nick Schroeder  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:41:13pm

Obviously what needs to happen here is we need to get Geller on CNN right away to explain all this terrorism shit with her expert opinions.

Seriously, anyone who lets this rightwing dumbasses onto national television to promote their hateful agendas should immediately stop and issue a nonspecific apology for ever letting them on.

440 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:41:16pm

re: #435 Thanos

bah. I see I was too slow to reply...

441 BongCrodny  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:41:20pm

re: #425 Gus 802

What's the point? That the South is bad? Are we going to look at the South's history and slavery? I can easily bring up Germany, Austria, and Italy's history and National Socialism and the holocaust. Hitler was from Austria -- a European. Geert Wilders is a European. Le Pen, is a European. Anders Behring Breivik that committed this atrocity today, is a European. Skinhead soccer hooligans are European.

The South does not have a monopoly on what I believe you are referring to. You can go 10 miles outside of the Seattle city limits and find the same mentality. The same with San Francisco or even within the San Francisco city limit. I'm not talking Republican politicians here. I'm talking about people. Go to Staten Island or better yet Long Island where you'll find pockets of hate in any given neighborhood.

Beautiful Game Turned Ugly: Racism in Europe's Soccer Arenas

[Video]


I'm from Maine, and my state's history included some fierce prejudice against French-Canadians. It's got nothing to do with the Mason-Dixon Line.

442 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:41:38pm

re: #437 Gus 802

I am Aware of All Internet Traditions!!11ty

I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going...

443 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:41:48pm

re: #438 kirkspencer

There's about ten people around here I think might be progressives. And none of 'em are the FDL type.

444 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:41:48pm

re: #434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Meaning the bombing fuck, not the troll.

445 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:42:04pm

re: #433 Ojoe

Yes, Charles kicked out the neo-nazi flavored types and/or they left when he called them out.

We all read a lot of blogs back then. Pam was a link. Then she really made a bad decision. Charles called her out, she dissed Charles, . . .

We learned that that the Enemy of my Enemy is Not Necessarily Our Friend.

Pam et al has still to learn that.

446 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:42:30pm

re: #436 reine.de.tout

Yeah - this one's not passing the smell test, IMO.

Garlic needed?

447 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:42:31pm

'Varun' registered four days ago, and just found what he thought was the perfect opportunity to take a big crap in the middle of the living room.

448 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:42:34pm

Sorry for quoting the troll. I'm a little on the drunk side.

449 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:42:51pm

re: #425 Gus 802

Try flying the Swastika flag in Berlin and see what happens. Try flying the Confederate flag in Georgia and you will get high fives.

450 BeenHereAwhile  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:43:11pm

re: #248 ggt

I have an AA friend who gave me a talk about covert and overt racism a while back. She preferred overt.

I wonder if the friend had ever been in a situation where the white folk handed out axe handles, prior to a race riot.

451 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:43:57pm

re: #450 BeenHereAwhile

I wonder if the friend had ever been in a situation where the white folk handed out axe handles, prior to a race riot.

huh?

452 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:44:14pm

re: #449 SpaceJesus

It is illegal to this day to display any historical items of the Italian fascists in Italy. "Apology for Fascism" it is called.

453 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:44:34pm

re: #443 Obdicut

There's about ten people around here I think might be progressives. And none of 'em are the FDL type.

Thanks for the shout out :)

454 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:44:58pm

re: #452 Ojoe

It is illegal to this day to display any historical items of the Italian fascists in Italy. "Apology for Fascism" it is called.

Instead, they just act like fascists, and burn the Roma's camps.

455 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:45:31pm

re: #449 SpaceJesus

Try flying the Swastika flag in Berlin and see what happens. Try flying the Confederate flag in Georgia and you will get high fives.

Lol try flying the confederate flag in frickin Riverside. Same diff.

456 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:45:56pm

re: #453 JasonA

Thanks for the shout out :)

And then there's silly people who think I'm a progressive. I swear, it's a weird moment in US politics when I'm considered progressive. I want to abolish the corporate income tax, for the love of mike.

457 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:45:58pm

re: #454 Obdicut

No Good. Did you know that Soros has contributed to helping the Roma?

458 Kruk  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:46:09pm

re: #430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, I'm not saying anyone should. I'm asking, why don't they?

Because it's a behaviour we men don't want to discourage or stimatise? :D

Seriously, as the insult is primarily aimed at men, I think it has the same homophobic roots as other slurs against gay people.

459 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:46:24pm

re: #373 Obdicut

I've never talked about the Roma while overseas to be honest, so I can't really talk about how easily or difficult it'd be.

460 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:46:34pm

re: #455 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol try flying the confederate flag in frickin Riverside. Same diff.

California still leads the nation in white hate groups. Yee-haw, we win!

461 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:09pm

re: #457 Ojoe

No Good. Did you know that Soros has contributed to helping the Roma?

Yep. The Roma could use more friends.

462 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:10pm

re: #448 Obdicut

Sorry for quoting the troll. I'm a little on the drunk side.

I love you, man!

(me too)

463 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:13pm

re: #456 Obdicut

And then there's silly people who think I'm a progressive. I swear, it's a weird moment in US politics when I'm considered progressive. I want to abolish the corporate income tax, for the love of mike.

Far-right Neocon!

/

464 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:40pm

I was gone, what did it do

465 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:48pm

re: #460 Obdicut

California still leads the nation in white hate groups. Yee-haw, we win!

Yeah, probably hate groups, period. But overwhelmingly white hate groups.

But then, everybody wants to live here. So, there's that. lol

466 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:50pm

re: #456 Obdicut

And then there's silly people who think I'm a progressive. I swear, it's a weird moment in US politics when I'm considered progressive. I want to abolish the corporate income tax, for the love of mike.

And you're right in that I can't think of anyone here who can stand Jane Hamsher for very long...

467 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:47:50pm

re: #455 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There were these yahoos in last year's 4th of July Parade here with a big dukes of hazard car & some small confederate flags & I played "Marching Through Georgia" on my fife in front of them & they didn't recognize it.

468 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:48:05pm

Smart money says Varun was a Hindu anti-islamist type, maybe a reincarnation of one of those previously banned.

469 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:48:12pm

re: #464 SpaceJesus

I was gone, what did it do

It's butthurt.

470 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:48:44pm

re: #453 JasonA

And one Whig too.

471 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:48:48pm

I think we've discussed it before . . .

What makes some young men feel the strong need to belong to a violent thinking group?

Someone posted the list of inmates at SuperMax a while back. They was an overwhelming group of young men either White Nationalists Whacko or Islamic Whacko.

Seems to be a bad, very bad, trend.

472 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:49:16pm

re: #455 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Difference is, white washing of that past is ok in most of the South, whereas Germans know and condemn their past.

473 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:49:17pm

re: #449 SpaceJesus

Try flying the Swastika flag in Berlin and see what happens. Try flying the Confederate flag in Georgia and you will get high fives.

We also have the 1st Amendment. Try engaging in some blasphemy in Berlin and see what happens to you. You'd still be protected in Texas. But that's besides the point because not everyone in Georgia agree with the idea of flying a Confederate flag. That's just a stereotype.

474 Olsonist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:49:39pm

re: #443 Obdicut

Who are the other 9? FDL is awesome.

475 Kruk  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:49:56pm

re: #468 Thanos

Smart money says Varun was a Hindu anti-islamist type, maybe a reincarnation of one of those previously banned.

So, there's a good chance he's a Dikshit?

476 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:50:01pm

re: #459 SpaceJesus

I've never talked about the Roma while overseas to be honest, so I can't really talk about how easily or difficult it'd be.

Give it a shot, and be prepared to be disappointed.

But beyond conversation, seriously: Roma are literally being murdered in Hungary, deported from France, having their property stolen from them, etc. etc. This is nothing new. The Roma have always been oppressed and shat on in Europe and excuses have always been made for it.

[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]

477 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:50:15pm

re: #464 SpaceJesus

I was gone, what did it do

Reveal the meaning of the universe. O_O

478 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:50:20pm

re: #390 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OT - I wonder how come heterosexual women are never put down as "cocksuckers", even though they're the ones sucking cock in far greater numbers than gay men.

OK, My face turned red. You are right on the use of the word, wrong on the percentage if not the numbers.

I, A_B, promise not to use the term 'cocksucker" again when describing a bad man. Totally inappropriate.

On the other hand, if you think more straight women, as a percentage of the population, engage in fellatio as opposed to gay men, just marry one.

Badda-bing!

479 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:50:43pm

re: #477 laZardo

Reveal the meaning of the universe. O_O

And Charles deleted it. Gone forever...

480 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:50:53pm

re: #456 Obdicut

And then there's silly people who think I'm a progressive. I swear, it's a weird moment in US politics when I'm considered progressive. I want to abolish the corporate income tax, for the love of mike.

I'm not sure I'm one of the progressives, but I am a liberal.

481 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:51:22pm

re: #456 Obdicut

And then there's silly people who think I'm a progressive. I swear, it's a weird moment in US politics when I'm considered progressive. I want to abolish the corporate income tax, for the love of mike.

I get that label a lot, though it's not accurate and I don't use it, myself. These so-called anti-Obama, crypto PUMA hair-on-fire "progressives" these days make me just snicker and shake my head.

482 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:51:23pm

re: #472 SpaceJesus

Difference is, white washing of that past is ok in most of the South, whereas Germans know and condemn their past.

That's absurd. The south doesn't embrace their slave past. And do note that the north had slaves too.

483 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:51:41pm

Labels change too quickly for me to decide what I am . . .

484 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:52:39pm

re: #474 Olsonist

Who are the other 9? FDL is awesome.

Heh. I'm not going to hang a label on anyone specific. And FDL is beyond unrealistic. I think their heart is in the right place most of the time, though.

485 Lidane  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:53:16pm

re: #480 kirkspencer

I'm not sure I'm one of the progressives, but I am a liberal.

I like to call myself a Red State Liberal. In any other state, I'd probably be a centrist or moderate, but here in Texas, I might as well be leading drum circles on the front steps of the Governor's Mansion.

486 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:53:17pm

re: #473 Gus 802

Off topic. See my post above yours. It's about the public's acceptance of the message.

487 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:53:33pm

FBV and I are going to starve tonite.

Any decent side-dishes planned?

488 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:53:36pm

re: #475 Kruk

Could be, but guessing a surname seems a stretch to me.

489 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:53:36pm

re: #473 Gus 802

We also have the 1st Amendment. Try engaging in some blasphemy in Berlin and see what happens to you. You'd still be protected in Texas. But that's besides the point because not everyone in Georgia agree with the idea of flying a Confederate flag. That's just a stereotype.

Nor everyone in Louisiana.

490 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:53:44pm

re: #484 Obdicut

Heh. I'm not going to hang a label on anyone specific. And FDL is beyond unrealistic. I think their heart is in the right place most of the time, though.

Far too idealistic, though.

491 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:54:11pm

re: #480 kirkspencer

I'm not sure I'm one of the progressives, but I am a liberal.

I was basing that on a rough estimate, given that we do have some people whose views appear to match up with what's called 'progressive', rather than on specific people.

Hell, I don't even believe in left or right.


Makes it hard to put my shoes on.

492 Kruk  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:54:41pm

re: #483 ggt

Labels change too quickly for me to decide what I am . . .

Tell me about it. I'm a social liberal, a fiscal moderate, and a security conservative. I feel at odds with all the major political parties a lot of the time.

493 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:54:54pm

re: #491 Obdicut

I was basing that on a rough estimate, given that we do have some people whose views appear to match up with what's called 'progressive', rather than on specific people.

Hell, I don't even believe in left or right.

Makes it hard to put my shoes on.

especially when you've been drinking . .
:)

494 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:55:04pm

re: #485 Lidane

Considering that I still haven't gotten around to changing my party affiliation (probably gonna do that when I get to a Seattle DMV or something), I use "Theodore Roosevelt Republican."

Speak softly, carry a big stick, and the only interaction with wildlife should be wrestling it to the deeeath with one's bare hands.

/ ;P

495 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:55:15pm

OT sort of

The new, revised national website for the Modern Whig Party:

Some deliberate moderation here...

As an Rx to political extremism.

496 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:55:30pm

re: #487 ggt

FBV and I are going to starve tonite.

Any decent side-dishes planned?

I still have a slice or two of red velvet cake left. Or, I should say, a blob of it (it fell apart as I was putting the layers together and icing on it - so it's not real pretty, but it tastes great).

497 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:55:34pm

re: #482 Gus 802

That's absurd. The south doesn't embrace their slave past. And do note that the north had slaves too.


white washing is the word i used. it is accepted to white wash that part of history and say that the war was fought over "states rights" or "southern pride" while sweeping the slave part under the carpet as well as the cornerstone speech.

498 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:55:53pm

re: #496 reine.de.tout

I still have a slice or two of red velvet cake left. Or, I should say, a blob of it (it fell apart as I was putting the layers together and icing on it - so it's not real pretty, but it tastes great).

ummmmmmm, thanks!

499 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:56:00pm

re: #472 SpaceJesus

Difference is, white washing of that past is ok in most of the South, whereas Germans know and condemn their past.

The white bigot south aren't the only people trying to whitewash their pasts. Pontiac, Seattle, many communities in CA, Southie in MA...filthy segregationist histories that would make Bull Connor blush.

Problem is, you get heels-dug-in white bigot conservative David Duke-voting southerners pointing at Pontiac, Southie, etc to distract from their own f'ed up behavior.

That sort of thing never works for any of the above, but they still do it.

500 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:56:02pm

re: #490 JasonA

Far too idealistic, though.

For me it's the constant "Obama is Evil" message that comes from so many of their posters that drives me away. I find myself in agreement with much of the underlying message - not all, and not to the same degree, but still a large proportion. But the 24/7 "Obama is the First Tea Bagger President" is just painful.

501 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:56:03pm

re: #495 Ojoe

Upding for dogged determination.

502 Lidane  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:56:24pm

re: #496 reine.de.tout

I still have a slice or two of red velvet cake left. Or, I should say, a blob of it (it fell apart as I was putting the layers together and icing on it - so it's not real pretty, but it tastes great).

Red velvet cake makes everything better. True fact. *nods*

503 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:56:36pm

re: #489 reine.de.tout

Nor everyone in Louisiana.

Except of course for the anti-South bigots who seem to think everybody in the South is the same. A Hollywood stereotype of slack jawed Southerners getting drunk every night and hollering "the South will rise again!"

504 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:57:02pm

re: #468 Thanos

Some of the anti-jihad types love them....usually not realizing they can violently anti-Christian as well.

505 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:57:53pm

re: #497 SpaceJesus

white washing is the word i used. it is accepted to white wash that part of history and say that the war was fought over "states rights" or "southern pride" while sweeping the slave part under the carpet as well as the cornerstone speech.

So you've done a study of all education establishments in the South and have determined that they "white wash" their slave past?

506 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:58:12pm

re: #495 Ojoe

OT sort of

The new, revised national website for the Modern Whig Party:

Some deliberate moderation here...

As an Rx to political extremism.

How is kowtowing to those who want to make abortion illegal on a state level a cure for political extremism? And gay marriage? And nearly everything?

The Whigs don't look to have any solution besides "we'll let the states decide", and, see, historically, some states had kind of a problem deciding about the civil liberties thing.

507 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:58:47pm

re: #503 Gus 802

Except of course for the anti-South bigots who seem to think everybody in the South is the same. A Hollywood stereotype of slack jawed Southerners getting drunk every night and hollering "the South will rise again!"

You left out "drooling".

508 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:59:02pm

re: #495 Ojoe

OT sort of

The new, revised national website for the Modern Whig Party:

Some deliberate moderation here...

As an Rx to political extremism.

Keeping reach for the sky Ojoe.

As a Democrat I am well acquainted with the suffering of supporting a party with great ideas and no clues about how to get elected.

509 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:59:16pm

re: #499 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Boston is still the most racist place I've ever lived.

510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:59:24pm

re: #482 Gus 802

That's absurd. The south doesn't embrace their slave past. And do note that the north had slaves too.

The US is made up of more than just "south and north".

Confederate southern states went to war to "protect" their dumb "traditions" and "culture", 150 years before that neo-nazi bigot fjordman.

Now you have conservative dunces still waving the confederate flag (when they do it it's "heritage"; when we talk about slavery it's "hate speech" against them), and holding Southern Experience slavery-nostalgia balls, complete with rent-a-slaves and Republican politicians playinng Confederate generals.

511 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 8:59:34pm

re: #501 jaunte

Why, thank you!

512 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:00:11pm

re: #505 Gus 802

So you've done a study of all education establishments in the South and have determined that they "white wash" their slave past?

Daughter's school clearly taught the slave past of Louisiana, and the slavery reasons for the Civil War. So there's at least ONE school that doesn't do the whitewash . . .

513 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:00:23pm

re: #502 Lidane

Red velvet cake makes everything better. True fact. *nods*

Only if you like Red Velvet cake. I don't.

Now a good tipsy parson is something else again. And a chocolate cheesecake with raspberry drizzle comes close.

514 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:00:37pm

re: #506 Obdicut

How is kowtowing to those who want to make abortion illegal on a state level a cure for political extremism? And gay marriage? And nearly everything?

The Whigs don't look to have any solution besides "we'll let the states decide", and, see, historically, some states had kind of a problem deciding about the civil liberties thing.

Yes, the big dilemna. We need States Rights as a counter or check to Federal Control. It's part of our divestment of power --makes life really difficult for tyrants. Yet, not everything we want to be equal is equal when left to State's Rights.

Education and voting rights are two of the most blatant I can remember.

Never a dull moment in American Politics. We learn as we go, but not always very well.

515 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:00:58pm

re: #503 Gus 802

Actually I was thinking about a fat guy sitting in a lawn chair next to a tick hound in front a a double wide trailer watching the cars burn by the trailer park gate on the interstate. The loser flags flies 24X7 from a fridge he keeps in his hard scrabble junk strewn yard just slightly higher than the US flag, even on the fourth of July.

I saw that guy in Missouri just a couple weeks back, he's my Southern stereotype.

516 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:01:01pm

re: #509 Obdicut

Boston is still the most racist place I've ever lived.

Indiana for me.

517 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:01:08pm

re: #509 Obdicut

Boston is still the most racist place I've ever lived.

Well, if you're from New York...

/

518 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:01:15pm

re: #509 Obdicut

Boston is still the most racist place I've ever lived.

I've lived outside of Boston. No more racist than southern CA, where I grew up. Probably less so, in my experience, but I only spent a year there and got out.

519 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:01:48pm

re: #505 Gus 802

So you've done a study of all education establishments in the South and have determined that they "white wash" their slave past?

No, just watch the news my whole life. We've been over this here many times already. Remember all those Confederate History month stories not long ago?


Also, there is a nice article on the way in which the South institutionalized historical revisionism on the civil war in the passing decades. I'll go find it for you.

520 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:01:57pm

re: #513 kirkspencer

Only if you like Red Velvet cake. I don't.

Now a good tipsy parson is something else again. And a chocolate cheesecake with raspberry drizzle comes close.

mmmmm, CHOCOLATE cheescake. Now that is double sin.

521 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:02:21pm

re: #513 kirkspencer

Only if you like Red Velvet cake. I don't.

Now a good tipsy parson is something else again. And a chocolate cheesecake with raspberry drizzle comes close.

You don't like red velvet cake?
Why . . .why . . .that's un-American!

522 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:02:38pm

re: #515 Thanos

Actually I was thinking about a fat guy sitting in a lawn chair next to a tick hound in front a a double wide trailer watching the cars burn by the trailer park gate on the interstate. The loser flags flies 24X7 from a fridge he keeps in his hard scrabble junk strewn yard just slightly higher than the US flag, even on the fourth of July.

I saw that guy in Missouri just a couple weeks back, he's my Southern stereotype.

Well, he had a good dog. I like tick hounds.

523 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:02:58pm

re: #514 ggt

Yes, the big dilemna. We need States Rights as a counter or check to Federal Control. It's part of our divestment of power --makes life really difficult for tyrants. Yet, not everything we want to be equal is equal when left to State's Rights.

Education and voting rights are two of the most blatant I can remember.

Never a dull moment in American Politics. We learn as we go, but not always very well.

The problem is that we should have learned from Loving V Virginia that you don't leave it to the individual states to determine who can and can't get married...

And yet 44 years later we're still doing it.

524 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:03:26pm

re: #515 Thanos

Actually I was thinking about a fat guy sitting in a lawn chair next to a tick hound in front a a double wide trailer watching the cars burn by the trailer park gate on the interstate. The loser flags flies 24X7 from a fridge he keeps in his hard scrabble junk strewn yard just slightly higher than the US flag, even on the fourth of July.

I saw that guy in Missouri just a couple weeks back, he's my Southern stereotype.

OK. Well, the first time I ever heard a Johnny Rebel song was by way of my father friend. He still lives in Brooklyn, NY, NY. Biggest racist on the planet oh so he seemed to me at one point in my life.

525 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:03:29pm

re: #523 jamesfirecat

The problem is that we should have learned from Loving V Virginia that you don't leave it to the individual states to determine who can and can't get married...

And yet 44 years later we're still doing it.

Like I said, we are constantly learning.

526 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:03:39pm

re: #521 reine.de.tout

I like pie better.

OH YEAH, TOTALLY ERODING AMERICAN HERITAGE HERE. :B

527 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:04:04pm

re: #519 SpaceJesus

No, just watch the news my whole life. We've been over this here many times already. Remember all those Confederate History month stories not long ago?

Also, there is a nice article on the way in which the South institutionalized historical revisionism on the civil war in the passing decades. I'll go find it for you.

There are people all over the south doing things we don't like. There are people in other areas of the country doing things we don't like. People in this country get to do things not everybody will like; in fact, people can do things that MOST other people, and all rational, reasonable people, will not like.

It doesn't mean that everyone who lives in the vicinity of those folks are exactly the same.

528 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:04:20pm

re: #520 ggt

mmm, CHOCOLATE cheescake. Now that is double sin.

My wife calls it gilding the lily and rarely lets me make it. Sometimes, though, it's what calls from the dark recesses of the soul and cannot be resisted. (grin)

529 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:04:29pm

re: #519 SpaceJesus

No, just watch the news my whole life. We've been over this here many times already. Remember all those Confederate History month stories not long ago?

Also, there is a nice article on the way in which the South institutionalized historical revisionism on the civil war in the passing decades. I'll go find it for you.

Don't bother. I've seen it before.

530 Ojoe  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:05:13pm

re: #506 Obdicut

From the Whig site:

"Abortion
Our members are split on this subject just like the rest of the country. And if you are starting to understand what the modern Whig philosophy means by encouraging independent thought and respecting others opinions and perspectives, you might correctly guess that modern Whigs represent a diversity of both pro-choice and pro-life voters. Why? How can we? The bottom line is that this one particular issue should not be the sole basis for which political party people affiliate with."

Link

Back later, I'm fading zzzzz

531 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:05:16pm

re: #526 laZardo

I like pie better.

OH YEAH, TOTALLY ERODING AMERICAN HERITAGE HERE. :B

heh. Yep - pie over cake. (usually).

532 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:05:28pm

re: #524 Gus 802

Biggest racist I ever met was from Chicago, he drove a cab.

533 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:05:34pm
534 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:06:01pm

re: #527 reine.de.tout


Would you mind explaining to me why only Southern States seem to have this pro-Confederacy nonsense happening at these levels?

535 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:06:42pm

re: #506 Obdicut

How is kowtowing to those who want to make abortion illegal on a state level a cure for political extremism? And gay marriage? And nearly everything?

The Whigs don't look to have any solution besides "we'll let the states decide", and, see, historically, some states had kind of a problem deciding about the civil liberties thing.

^This.

"Let the states decide" is just shorthand for states have the "right" to harass whatever numerical minorities they see fit while enabling bigots to prosper at our expense.

Doesn't have to be that way, but that is what "states rights" has come to mean.

States, fetuses, and corporations are the only entities with "rights", at least in Conservatopia. Everyone else? Sucking on the government teat for their group rights. Tough love for them!

536 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:06:56pm

Magnum Ice Cream.

Specifically, the Double Caramel, which is "Silky vanilla bean ice cream enrobed in a luscious chocolatey coating, rich caramel sauce, and thick Belgian milk chocolate".

OMG.

537 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:07:00pm

re: #518 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Here is the real problem with the aftermath of full institutional racism in the south:

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

That was only 1954. We're only 47 years away from that. A lot of young black kids have had to struggle with their homework because their parents weren't educated, because their states decided they didn't deserve a good education.

That was such a short-sighted policy it could make you weep.

And on-topic: It's actually pretty goddamn amazing that in every war the US has fought, we've had black troops volunteering for it. Even back when they couldn't get an education from their country, even back when they couldn't vote, even back when their children were being called nasty names in school, they volunteered and fought for this country.

And they didn't, except in incredibly minor incidents, turn to terrorism or violence to try to achieve rights.

538 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:07:11pm

re: #534 SpaceJesus

I recommend you read "The Sound and the Fury" first.

539 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:07:33pm

re: #528 kirkspencer

My wife calls it gilding the lily and rarely lets me make it. Sometimes, though, it's what calls from the dark recesses of the soul and cannot be resisted. (grin)

Chocolate pound cake is pretty gilded, too.

540 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:07:51pm

re: #530 Ojoe

Yep. Your solution on that, on job creation, on gay marriage, on every issue of import is to leave it up to the states.

ZZZ indeed.

541 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:07:57pm

re: #509 Obdicut

Boston is still the most racist place I've ever lived.

It must be thirty years since I read Bill Russell's autobiography. To paraphrase him regarding Boston: "The racism is blatant. And there are more people there finding more ways to look down on each other than anywhere else I've been. Other than that, I like the city."

542 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:08:15pm

re: #530 Ojoe

From the Whig site:

"Abortion
Our members are split on this subject just like the rest of the country. And if you are starting to understand what the modern Whig philosophy means by encouraging independent thought and respecting others opinions and perspectives, you might correctly guess that modern Whigs represent a diversity of both pro-choice and pro-life voters. Why? How can we? The bottom line is that this one particular issue should not be the sole basis for which political party people affiliate with."

Link

Back later, I'm fading zzz

So you're party feels that abortion is too big and important an issue to actually take a stand on....

You whigs take spinelessness to a new level Ojoe....

(Sorry but if but at least Republicans come out and say what they want your party is just sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "LA-LA-LA CAN'T HEAR YOU!" about how your political stance will doubtlessly lead to back alley abortions with coat hangers and similar....)

543 Obdicut  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:08:33pm

re: #541 jvic

My childhood dog's name was Russell, named after the basketball player, because he was my brother's hero.

544 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:08:34pm

re: #534 SpaceJesus

Would you mind explaining to me why only Southern States seem to have this pro-Confederacy nonsense happening at these levels?

I can't, because I don't know any of the types of folks you're talking about, so I have no clue what's in their heads or why they think it's so great to do those things. Seriously, I do not know those folks. In the grand scheme of the total population of where I live, they are so few that I do not know any of them.

545 darthstar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:10:13pm

Hey everyone...how's the love tonight?

546 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:10:42pm

re: #534 SpaceJesus

Would you mind explaining to me why only Southern States seem to have this pro-Confederacy nonsense happening at these levels?

It's the politicians, not the people. Everyone else in the South have the same problems as you, me, and everyone else in this country.

547 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:10:45pm

I was officially a Fjordman hater in these threads back in the day. Him and his 10,000 word essays justifying his round them up and ship them out strategy. We rjidiculed him until he gave up and left. And then his idiot buddy Robert Spencer a while later.

548 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:10:49pm

re: #544 reine.de.tout

I can't, because I don't know any of the types of folks you're talking about, so I have no clue what's in their heads or why they think it's so great to do those things. Seriously, I do not know those folks. In the grand scheme of the total population of where I live, they are so few that I do not know any of them.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Apparently the idea is popular enough to warrant elected politicians endorsing it.

549 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:11:31pm

re: #545 darthstar

Hey everyone...how's the love tonight?

Doing OK. I've only down dinged the now blocked trolls. D'oh!

550 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:11:36pm

re: #546 Gus 802

Oh ok. If you were governor of Connecticut and you tried passing some confederate holiday crap, you would be recalled in 5 seconds.

551 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:12:10pm

re: #545 darthstar

Hey everyone...how's the love tonight?

FBV and I are starving --you bring any side dishes?

552 elizajane  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:12:19pm

Coming in late on this but... eighty dead?? Eighty teenagers killed because they were idealistic kids who signed up to go to a left wing camp and talk about how to make the world a fairer place for everybody?

It's too awful. I don't know what to say.

It does cross my mind that, although I am as pro-gun-control as any liberal out there... if somebody at this camp had had a gun, this monster couldn't possibly have killed eighty people. Not eighty.

Heartbreaking.

553 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:13:23pm

re: #552 elizajane

Coming in late on this but... eighty dead?? Eighty teenagers killed because they were idealistic kids who signed up to go to a left wing camp and talk about how to make the world a fairer place for everybody?

It's too awful. I don't know what to say.

It does cross my mind that, although I am as pro-gun-control as any liberal out there... if somebody at this camp had had a gun, this monster couldn't possibly have killed eighty people. Not eighty.

Heartbreaking.

Yep,

Sadly it is true.

554 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:13:27pm

re: #551 ggt

FBV and I are starving --you bring any side dishes?

I'm polishing off some prime rib, with crushed pepper and sea salt seasoning, au jus, wild rice and garlic mashed potatoes.

555 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:13:34pm

re: #514 ggt

Yes, the big dilemna. We need States Rights as a counter or check to Federal Control. It's part of our divestment of power --makes life really difficult for tyrants. Yet, not everything we want to be equal is equal when left to State's Rights.

Education and voting rights are two of the most blatant I can remember.

States Rights has just come to mean special rights for bigots and their benefactors. Imo, we need balance of powers within a unity of autonomous individual states, not states rights.

556 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:13:52pm

re: #473 Gus 802

We also have the 1st Amendment. Try engaging in some blasphemy in Berlin and see what happens to you. You'd still be protected in Texas. But that's besides the point because not everyone in Georgia agree with the idea of flying a Confederate flag. That's just a stereotype.

Confederate swastikas. Evil symbols of an evil past.

557 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:14:16pm

re: #554 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm polishing off some prime rib, with crushed pepper and sea salt seasoning, au jus, wild rice and garlic mashed potatoes.

GARLIC mashed potatoes.

Did you bring enough to share? As I understand it, only Troll Main Course is provided, the rest is pot luck.

I brought the coffee, wanna cup?

558 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:14:22pm

LBJ was from the South. The man behind "The Great Society". And I don't care how cynical his reason might have been. Martin Luther King, was from the South. Al Gore, the man most known for popularizing the dangers of AGW, is from the South.

559 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:15:25pm

re: #550 SpaceJesus

Oh ok. If you were governor of Connecticut and you tried passing some confederate holiday crap, you would be recalled in 5 seconds.

Right. It's all peaches and cream in Connecticut.

Extremism in Connecticut
Summary

The public often associates extreme anti-government or hate groups with remote, rugged states in the Pacific Northwest or the rural South. Despite these perceptions, extremism in America is spread far and wide. New England is home to its share of extreme groups and movements, just as are the Pacific Northwest and the South.

Connecticut -- despite its small size -- has witnessed some of the most intensive and varied forms of extremist activity. From anti-government "sovereign citizens" and tax protesters to virulent hate groups like the World Church of the Creator and the Klan, extreme ideologies have taken root in Connecticut's soil.

In recent years, Connecticut has experienced a breadth and scope of extremist activity surprising for its size. While some formerly popular extremist groups are now on the decline, others are growing, and are becoming increasingly active and vocal within communities throughout the state. The impact of the Internet and other new media will make Connecticut, like other states, even more vulnerable to new extremist movements that originate elsewhere.

Continues.

560 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:15:26pm

Oh fair and noble knights of the apparently "We're not any more racist than the rest of the country" South.

explain this please


[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

561 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:15:31pm

re: #548 SpaceJesus

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Apparently the idea is popular enough to warrant elected politicians endorsing it.

It says Louisiana is one of the states that has a Confederate History Month proclaimed. I cannot recall ever seeing a thing about it. Nothing. Zip, zilch, zero, nada. I'm 59 years old and I've lived here all my life, and if there was ever any sort of "celebration" of Confederate History Month, I've not heard about it.

Which brings me all the way back to the point I was making earlier - we are not all exactly the same as those folks who live in our vicinity who do things we don't like.

562 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:15:36pm

I have to sleep.

Night all!

563 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:15:39pm

Next!

564 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:16:03pm

re: #560 SpaceJesus

Oh fair and noble knights of the apparently "We're not any more racist than the rest of the country" South.

explain this please

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Explain #559.

565 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:16:11pm

re: #555 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

States Rights has just come to mean special rights for bigots and their benefactors. Imo, we need balance of powers within a unity of autonomous individual states, not states rights.

States rights are horseshit. The slave states didn't give a rat's ass about the free states state's rights when the Feds sided with them. Its the same deal even now.

566 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:16:32pm

re: #552 elizajane

Coming in late on this but... eighty dead?? Eighty teenagers killed because they were idealistic kids who signed up to go to a left wing camp and talk about how to make the world a fairer place for everybody?

It's too awful. I don't know what to say.

It does cross my mind that, although I am as pro-gun-control as any liberal out there... if somebody at this camp had had a gun, this monster couldn't possibly have killed eighty people. Not eighty.

Heartbreaking.

Can we just make a 24 hour rule when in the wake of every shooting no one will say either...

A) If there were stricter gun control laws the shooter wouldn't have been able to get a gun and this could have been avoided.

Or

B) If only there had been someone there with a gun who could have shoot the shoooter mid rampage!

Both of them seem to be painfully broadbrush arguments which are based around wishful thinking.

567 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:04pm

re: #558 Gus 802

Atticus Finch is from the south.

568 jamesfirecat  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:12pm

re: #558 Gus 802

LBJ was from the South. The man behind "The Great Society". And I don't care how cynical his reason might have been. Martin Luther King, was from the South. Al Gore, the man most known for popularizing the dangers of AGW, is from the South.

Also, Stephen Colbert is from the South.

569 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:15pm

re: #530 Ojoe

From the Whig site:

"Abortion
Our members are split on this subject just like the rest of the country. And if you are starting to understand what the modern Whig philosophy means by encouraging independent thought and respecting others opinions and perspectives, you might correctly guess that modern Whigs represent a diversity of both pro-choice and pro-life voters. Why? How can we? The bottom line is that this one particular issue should not be the sole basis for which political party people affiliate with."

Link/blockquote>

In other words *PUNT*

The Whigs died off in the first place because they couldn't find a viable answer to state's rights with regards to contentious issues (slavery), and now 150 years later they've demonstrated an ability to learn absolutely nothing.

570 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:20pm

re: #559 Gus 802

Yes, there are racists. Everywhere. It's an issue of proportionality and acceptance.

571 Randall Gross  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:32pm

time for sleeps... g'nite all

572 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:33pm

re: #557 ggt

GARLIC mashed potatoes.

Did you bring enough to share? As I understand it, only Troll Main Course is provided, the rest is pot luck.

I brought the coffee, wanna cup?

In close to 4 decades on this Earth, I have never been able to bring myself to consume a full cup of that rancid drink.

573 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:36pm

MassResistance!
www.massresistance.org/ - CachedSimilar

We're the pro-family action center for Massachusetts -- and beyond! ... Supreme Court Judge speaks at fundraiser for radical gay group .... School Committee treats citizens' concerns about anti-Semitic play and homosexuality in schools ...

Probably the most vitriolic anti-gay group in the country. Yep, they're in Massachusetts.

574 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:17:59pm

re: #560 SpaceJesus

Oh fair and noble knights of the apparently "We're not any more racist than the rest of the country" South.

explain this please

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I don't know who you're talking to.
I haven't made that specific claim.
The only claim I've made is that we're not all exactly just like the folks who are into the "confederate" stuff.

575 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:18:19pm

re: #558 Gus 802

Mark Twain is from Missourah.

576 darthstar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:18:36pm

re: #551 ggt

FBV and I are starving --you bring any side dishes?

Leftover veggie risotto...nothing fancy.

577 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:18:36pm

re: #573 Gus 802

MassResistance!
www.massresistance.org/ - CachedSimilar

Probably the most vitriolic anti-gay group in the country. Yep, they're in Massachusetts.

More like Ass-achusetts.

/ok, not my best.

578 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:18:39pm

re: #565 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

State's rigths for marriage equality and medical pot. Euthanasia.

579 kirkspencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:19:22pm

re: #562 ggt

I have to sleep.

Night all!

That sounds like a good idea - me too. Mañana, meine freundin.

580 laZardo  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:20:25pm

bbiab, boarding.

catch yall from Taipei Taoyuan.

581 jaunte  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:21:45pm

re: #574 reine.de.tout

Geographical proximity is another granfalloon.

A granfalloon, in the fictional religion of Bokononism (created by Kurt Vonnegut in his 1963 novel Cat's Cradle), is defined as a "false karass." That is, it is a group of people who outwardly choose or claim to have a shared identity or purpose, but whose mutual association is actually meaningless.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
582 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:21:50pm

I'm staying with my ultra liberal family in CT. They are of the opinion that the south should have been allowed to secede, they have no use or care for the southern states. I think that is horse shit.

583 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:22:02pm

re: #552 elizajane

It does cross my mind that, although I am as pro-gun-control as any liberal out there... if somebody at this camp had had a gun, this monster couldn't possibly have killed eighty people. Not eighty.

IMO that point belongs in the discussion, but coming from someone on the Right it might have sounded like using the tragedy to make political hay. I'm glad you said it.

584 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:22:30pm

re: #578 prairiefire

State's rigths for marriage equality and medical pot. Euthanasia.

I don't see how denying someone's civil rights or health care decision can be a "state's right".

585 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:22:42pm

re: #570 SpaceJesus

Yes, there are racists. Everywhere. It's an issue of proportionality and acceptance.

Then change that to this...

Yes, there are assholes. Everywhere. It's an issue of proportionality and acceptance.

586 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:24:51pm

re: #537 Obdicut

Here is the real problem with the aftermath of full institutional racism in the south:

[Link: upload.wikimedia.org...]

That was only 1954. We're only 47 years away from that. A lot of young black kids have had to struggle with their homework because their parents weren't educated, because their states decided they didn't deserve a good education.

That was such a short-sighted policy it could make you weep.

Were it only just the south and just black kids. The map you posted lists CA as yellow, that is, "no legislation". You probably already know this, but it's worth stating. That's somewhat misleading, since one of the main precedents to the Brown decision came from Orange County.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendez_v._Westminster

And Brown, of course, was fought in one of those blue states on the map.

This was Pontiac, MI's response to civil rights: burned out buses.


And on-topic: It's actually pretty goddamn amazing that in every war the US has fought, we've had black troops volunteering for it. Even back when they couldn't get an education from their country, even back when they couldn't vote, even back when their children were being called nasty names in school, they volunteered and fought for this country.

And they didn't, except in incredibly minor incidents, turn to terrorism or violence to try to achieve rights.

Yeah doing so would have gotten us slaughtered. Not just by bigots but by states rights governments. So, the options were very few. A lot of white cons deeply RESENT our successes, and not just the ones in the south, either. Ah well, sucks to be them. /Schadenfreude

587 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:25:26pm

re: #582 prairiefire

we related?

588 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:26:26pm

re: #585 Gus 802

Ok fine, you guys win. I will stop making fun of the South.

589 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:26:58pm

i cannot rule out however, that i might rise again.

590 prairiefire  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:27:14pm

re: #584 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Some states say gays can marry, some say they can't. I would love a pot prescription for my chronic issues, ain't gonna happen in MO.

591 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:30:16pm

re: #534 SpaceJesus

Not that I really accept your whole broad brush premise but maybe because the South WAS the confederacy? Seems kinda obvious.

592 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:30:21pm

re: #589 SpaceJesus

i cannot rule out however, that i might rise again.

Good one.

593 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:32:24pm

re: #581 jaunte

Geographical proximity is another granfalloon.

In his research Tajfel found that strangers would form groups on the basis of completely inconsequential criteria.

heh.
Very interesting, first I've heard of this.

594 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:33:02pm

re: #558 Gus 802

LBJ was from the South. The man behind "The Great Society". And I don't care how cynical his reason might have been. Martin Luther King, was from the South. Al Gore, the man most known for popularizing the dangers of AGW, is from the South.

Bull Connor was from the south.
Pritchett and Kelly were from the south.
Strom Thurmond was from the south.
Allen West is from the south.
Herman Cain is from the south.
Haley Barbour is from the south.
Jesse Helms was from the south.
David Duke is from the south.
The KKK originated in the south.
The Black Legion (no, not a black racist new black panthers group) originated in the south.
Dixiecrats were from the south.
Newt Gingrich is from the south.
Tom DeLay is from the south.
Bobby Jindal is from the south.
The southern strategy, which works on far more cons than just white southerners is, you know...

595 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:33:30pm

re: #588 SpaceJesus

Ok fine, you guys win. I will stop making fun of the South.

Oh, you just go on ahead!
But keep in mind we're not all the same.
Nor do we really drool all that much.

596 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:33:45pm

re: #588 SpaceJesus

Ok fine, you guys win. I will stop making fun of the South.

A lot of southern crap deserves a lot more than just making fun of. Lol they will live.

597 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:34:10pm

re: #582 prairiefire

I'm staying with my ultra liberal family in CT. They are of the opinion that the south should have been allowed to secede, they have no use or care for the southern states. I think that is horse shit.

You need to introduce them to me!

598 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:35:35pm

re: #534 SpaceJesus

Would you mind explaining to me why only Southern States seem to have this pro-Confederacy nonsense happening at these levels?

Lol I'm guessing you've never been to southern CA.

599 Olsonist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:38:20pm

re: #598 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol I'm guessing you've never been to southern CA.

Or Northern CA.

600 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:39:16pm

re: #582 prairiefire

I'm staying with my ultra liberal family in CT. They are of the opinion that the south should have been allowed to secede, they have no use or care for the southern states. I think that is horse shit.

"Ultra liberal" types who talk that way don't really mean that, because there goes that coveted African American vote (and a bunch of my cousins.)

(And it's not like the other parts of the country were so friendly when we started leaving the south in droves, after the federal government endorsed their anti-Black laws.)

601 darthstar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:39:51pm

re: #599 Olsonist

Or Northern CA.

Now we're talking about where I grew up...Yeah, we gots our red-necks.

602 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:41:46pm

re: #560 SpaceJesus

Oh fair and noble knights of the apparently "We're not any more racist than the rest of the country" South.

explain this please

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Ah, but you oversimplify. You completely leave out all that other racism we see elsewhere that is based on who the local disfavored ethnic is. Just to grab an example many people are unaware of -In my zip code at work I run into Armenian v Armenian racism. Surprised?

I'll try to explain. The Armenians from the post holocaust diaspora that wound up in Soviet Russia back when as opposed to the Armenians that wound up in the middle east. A fee scant generations later and the cultures diverged. So all you showed with your link is one find of racism of one region. Fact is there is all kinds all over. All that tribal warfare we hear about in Afghanistan results in tribal bigotry.

603 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:43:09pm

re: #599 Olsonist

Or Northern CA.

Ha, true, except the ones on soCA have direct roots to "the south" they try to disavow in their personal lives -- e.g. the dustbowl and TVA refugeeism -- so people will think better of them. But mention the word "secession" and watch their pavlovian response.

Lol jerks.

604 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:44:05pm

re: #600 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

"Ultra liberal" types who talk that way don't really mean that, because there goes that coveted African American vote (and a bunch of my cousins.)

(And it's not like the other parts of the country were so friendly when we started leaving the south in droves, after the federal government endorsed their anti-Black laws.)

That AfricanAmerican vote includes a couple of my cousins as well.

Which is what I'm trying to tell SJ - we're not all the same as the "confederate" types. We're just not.

605 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:44:47pm

Well, I'm not sure if I want to spend the rest of the evening ridiculing people and/or regions.

606 Digital Display  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:44:48pm

re: #599 Olsonist

Or Northern CA.

Good Lawd..I am a native California..NoCal has all the water..Always has..Always will..SoCal depends on our mercy...Because this has been talked about my whole life this is bullshit...We love SoCal.. But we'll never admit it..California will never split into 2 states..

607 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:46:52pm

re: #605 Gus 802

Well, I'm not sure if I want to spend the rest of the evening ridiculing people and/or regions.

I can make fun of hipsters from the pearl district indefinitely.

608 elizajane  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:47:34pm

Just spent ten days with the in-laws from Texas visiting us (here in NorCal) and honestly, anything y'all want to say about the South is fine with me.
Just for this week, of course.

609 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:47:44pm

re: #607 EmmmieG

I can make fun of hipsters from the pearl district indefinitely.

Where's that at?

610 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:48:11pm

re: #609 Gus 802

Where's that at?

Downtown Portland.

How many hipsters does it take to change a lightbulb?

It's an obscure number. You wouldn't have heard of it.

611 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:49:24pm

re: #602 Rightwingconspirator

Ah, but you oversimplify. You completely leave out all that other racism we see elsewhere that is based on who the local disfavored ethnic is. Just to grab an example many people are unaware of -In my zip code at work I run into Armenian v Armenian racism. Surprised?

I'll try to explain. The Armenians from the post holocaust diaspora that wound up in Soviet Russia back when as opposed to the Armenians that wound up in the middle east. A fee scant generations later and the cultures diverged. So all you showed with your link is one find of racism of one region. Fact is there is all kinds all over. All that tribal warfare we hear about in Afghanistan results in tribal bigotry.

Bad comparison.

White-on-white discrimination is nothing new in the US. They have been doing it since the Puritans vs Quakers vs Anglicans vs Roman Catholics vs Baptists vs Irish vs Italians vs Croatians vs Serbs vs Germans vs Dutch vs etc. etc. etc.

Wait, are Armenians "white"? Ok forget I asked. Anyway, Armenia, Soviet Russia and Afghanistan have made no declarations that all men are created equal. Not so for the USA.

612 Digital Display  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:51:12pm

re: #608 elizajane

Just spent ten days with the in-laws from Texas visiting us (here in NorCal) and honestly, anything y'all want to say about the South is fine with me.
Just for this week, of course.

I'm a NorCal boy....Grew up in Yountville.. Went to College in NorCal...

613 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:51:44pm

re: #607 EmmmieG

Remarkable how every city in American has its own hipster district. New York has several!

614 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:53:21pm

re: #613 erraticsphinx

Remarkable how every city in American has its own hipster district. New York has several!

Well they can't live just anywhere.

I mean, you can't expect them to live in the suburbs or in a part of the city that is insufficiently gritty, cool, and artsy.

615 erraticsphinx  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:55:00pm

re: #614 EmmmieG

Yep. Wikipedia article on them is quite informative.

616 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:55:04pm

re: #606 HoosierHoops

Good Lawd..I am a native California..NoCal has all the water..Always has..Always will..SoCal depends on our mercy...Because this has been talked about my whole life this is bullshit...We love SoCal.. But we'll never admit it..California will never split into 2 states..

Whiskey's for drinkin', water's for fightin'.

That's Texas right now now. Over 75% of the state is in exceptional drought. How bad is it when you pray for hurricanes to hit your state?

[Link: www.drought.unl.edu...]

Really. Fucking. Bad.

617 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:55:14pm

re: #604 reine.de.tout

Which is what I'm trying to tell SJ - we're not all the same as the "confederate" types. We're just not.

White southerners, especially R-voting cons, are still the beneficiaries of confederate era social norms, ethnic cleansings, shunting off to inequal jobs, schools, housing, and state-violence-enforced laws.

The Black and Jewish communities, and few white Christians who fought back against it, are what salvage the south's reputation. All fought under penalty of violent retribution and death.

But fret not, the south isn't the only place where that was the case.

618 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:57:56pm

re: #608 elizajane

Just spent ten days with the in-laws from Texas visiting us (here in NorCal) and honestly, anything y'all want to say about the South is fine with me.
Just for this week, of course.

That bad?

619 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:58:18pm

re: #616 austin_blue

Whiskey's for drinkin', water's for fightin'.

That's Texas right now now. Over 75% of the state is in exceptional drought. How bad is it when you pray for hurricanes to hit your state?

[Link: www.drought.unl.edu...]

Really. Fucking. Bad.

We'll send you some of ours.
After a very very dry spring and early summer, we're getting drenching showers every day.

620 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:58:33pm

re: #610 EmmmieG

Downtown Portland.

How many hipsters does it take to change a lightbulb?

It's an obscure number. You wouldn't have heard of it.

I was never a group person. Hipsters, yuppies, etc. All of those urban cliques never appealed to me. They're all like mini-cults where people expect you to act the same like they do. It's like when I used to get my 13 dollar a pound coffee. I'd go in there and talk it up with the counter person and then leave. Never hung out in a coffee shop in my entire life and never plan on doing so. Spending the rest of my life eating and drinking beverages in public only to pose in front of others is not my idea of fun.

621 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 9:59:44pm

re: #611 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #611 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Bad comparison.

White-on-white discrimination is nothing new in the US. They have been doing it since the Puritans vs Quakers vs Anglicans vs Roman Catholics vs Baptists vs Irish vs Italians vs Croatians vs Serbs vs Germans vs Dutch vs etc. etc. etc.

Wait, are Armenians "white"? Ok forget I asked. Anyway, Armenia, Soviet Russia and Afghanistan have made no declarations that all men are created equal. Not so for the USA.

You missed my point. I was simply pointing out that it's simply incomplete to frame the point as SJ did. Incomplete proportionate to whatever ethnic or cultural racism we do have elsewhere. On second thought you reinforced it. No matter what you call Armenians ethnic designator.

622 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:01:54pm

re: #620 Gus 802

I was never a group person. Hipsters, yuppies, etc. All of those urban cliques never appealed to me. They're all like mini-cults where people expect you to act the same like they do. It's like when I used to get my 13 dollar a pound coffee. I'd go in there and talk it up with the counter person and then leave. Never hung out in a coffee shop in my entire life and never plan on doing so. Spending the rest of my life eating and drinking beverages in public only to pose in front of others is not my idea of fun.

Oh man, I know exactly what you mean. Saw a lot of that during the tech boom. That, and the general gentrification attitude, that them sitting their eating-disorder butts in a fancy sidewalk cafe is somehow raising the status of my own neighborhood. Lol!

623 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:04:18pm

re: #619 reine.de.tout

We'll send you some of ours.
After a very very dry spring and early summer, we're getting drenching showers every day.

Oh, please please send it this way!

But, in fact, God has heard our prayers and said "No."

Sadly, the shift in the high pressure that has given you rain is supposed to slide back toward us this weekend. 103 today, 104 tomorrow, and 105 Sunday.

Whee!

624 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:04:39pm

re: #621 Rightwingconspirator

You missed my point. I was simply pointing out that it's simply incomplete to frame the point as SJ did. Incomplete proportionate to whatever ethnic or cultural racism we do have elsewhere. On second thought you reinforced it. No matter what you call Armenians ethnic designator.

I understood your point, I just happen to disagree with it. You see your point as more complex than SJ's, I don't.

Your example of Armenian-on-Armenian discrimination is not new at all. It fits a 400 year old pattern of discrimination against one's own.

625 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:05:49pm

re: #623 austin_blue


But, in fact, God has heard our prayers and said "No."

Of course not! You just haven't prayed hard enough! Why can't you see that?!?

626 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:07:42pm

re: #623 austin_blue

When was the last time you had temps under 100?

627 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:08:35pm

re: #622 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh man, I know exactly what you mean. Saw a lot of that during the tech boom. That, and the general gentrification attitude, that them sitting their eating-disorder butts in a fancy sidewalk cafe is somehow raising the status of my own neighborhood. Lol!

Some big Denver developer put up a bar in my old neighborhood. Completely changed the fabric almost overnight. It started to feel more like an affluent ski town including the affluent hipsters and the young gold diggers (yes they still have those) started showing up. Everyone seems to be 5'-10", young and good looking and they all drive upper end European cars like BMWs, Audi, Volvo, Porsche, etc. The weird part of course is that does drive the cost of rent up because then building owners start getting the idea "now that this place is really hip I can double the rent!"

628 elizajane  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:12:26pm

re: #618 austin_blue

That bad?

Can we say, people standing in the street screaming at one another bad?

We're quiet folks, here in CA.

629 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:13:09pm
630 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:15:08pm

re: #595 reine.de.tout

...But keep in mind we're not all the same....

Nor, also to the point, will "you" necessarily remain as you are. From the article on Rick Perry's theocratic backers that Charles posted a while ago:

...Patterson’s aim, as she makes clear in her book, is getting black and brown evangelicals to vote Republican and support conservative causes. A major emphasis among the New Apostles is racial reconciliation and recruitment of minorities and women. The apostolic prayer networks often perform elaborate ceremonies in which participants dress up in historical garb and repent for racial sins.

The formula—overcoming racism to achieve multiracial fundamentalism—has caught on in the apostolic movement. Some term the approach the “Rainbow Right,” and in fact The Response has a high quotient of African-Americans, Latinos and Asian-Americans in leadership positions.

631 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:15:28pm

re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I imagine that Pam and the rest of the hate brigade will be issuing a full recant of their original statements any minute now...


I'm in shock at the moment. Some people in my life are reacting to this situation in ways that are beyond my understanding. Or tolerance. Or patience.

632 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:16:09pm

re: #631 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm in shock at the moment. Some people in my life are reacting to this situation in ways that are beyond my understanding. Or tolerance. Or patience.

In what way?

633 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:16:42pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

It's nice that I feel very comfortable being wrong about this being an Islamic attack. It doesn't pain me at all if it was nazis. It's a nice position to be in.

Nothing comfortable about this one.

634 Mocking Jay  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:16:44pm

re: #631 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm in shock at the moment. Some people in my life are reacting to this situation in ways that are beyond my understanding. Or tolerance. Or patience.

re: #632 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In what way?

Yeah, I'm interested in find out what this means too.

635 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:18:07pm

re: #629 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jesus in a slice of toast, move over!

Unborn fetuses manifest in clouds over Lou Engle anti-abortion prayer conference

/facepalm

omg

Didn't one already do that over Katrina? Cripey.

Dumb bigots.

636 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:18:16pm

re: #631 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm in shock at the moment. Some people in my life are reacting to this situation in ways that are beyond my understanding. Or tolerance. Or patience.

Hey SFZ I have a question. Are your neighbors being quiet tonight?

637 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:18:49pm

re: #425 Gus 802

All true--racism is not unique to one part of the country. But the South does have an especially horrific track record with respect to race relations. And the racist backlash against Obama is particularly bad down south, where both the tea party and the gop (to the extent that there's a difference) have their base of power.

638 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:19:38pm

re: #9 Killgore Trout

It was a perfectly reasonable assumption. It was wrong but Islamic groups were already trying to take credit for it and had previously promised similar attacks. You're sorely mistaken if you think this incident somehow mitigates the threat of Islamic terrorism.

It 'mitigates' nothing. The threat of Islamic terror is what it was.

But this sure is a reminder that evil doesn't mind what your race, color, creed or national origin is, it will find you some work to do regardless.

639 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:20:57pm

re: #13 Obdicut

There's no problem in assuming that Muslims were to blame, as long as you don't do anything on that assumption.

There's a problem in insisting it was the only possible explanation, which is actually what some people did.

I assumed Muslims were to blame. I guessed wrong. Jesus fucking Christ, did I guess wrong.

I suppose there is no use hoping that Norway has the death penalty?

640 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:21:17pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

If the facebook link circulating really is him then he doesn't seem to be a generic Euro-fascist type. He doesn't seem overly extreme and more of an American style libertarian. Not nearly as extreme as Fox News or the Tea Party judging by his reading material.

Eighty dead is all the extreme you need.

641 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:22:19pm

re: #629 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jesus in a slice of toast, move over!

Unborn fetuses manifest in clouds over Lou Engle anti-abortion prayer conference

/facepalm

I've always been partial to Moses Toast myself.

Image: gI_0_mosestoast300.jpg

642 simoom  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:22:23pm

This is supposed to be a post from Anders Behring Breivik on the World of Warcraft forums:
[Link: eu.battle.net...]

By the end of the second page it's mainly people reacting to yesterday's massacre:

this guy just murdered around 100 teenagers in norway today, hard to believe


---

Really disturbing reading this. He seemed like a fun guy to play with and today he murders almost 100 children.

What a freakin sick world we live in.

etc

643 austin_blue  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:22:41pm

Gah. I'm done and need some kip. Good night my dear Lizards, we'll visit tomorrow. Predictions?

Pammie will have never had *anything* to do with the Norwegian shooter in any way shape or form. No fingerprints there!

Gates of Vienna will maintain its support for all right wing groups in Norway (harumph, harumph, harumph) claiming this was a single whack shooter who has *nothing* to do with their agenda.

The Euro Union Courts will not to touch this case with a ten foot pole. It's

644 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:23:12pm

re: #630 jvic

Patterson’s aim, as she makes clear in her book, is getting black and brown evangelicals to vote Republican and support conservative causes. A major emphasis among the New Apostles is racial reconciliation and recruitment of minorities and women. The apostolic prayer networks often perform elaborate ceremonies in which participants dress up in historical garb and repent for racial sins.

The formula—overcoming racism to achieve multiracial fundamentalism—has caught on in the apostolic movement. Some term the approach the “Rainbow Right,” and in fact The Response has a high quotient of African-Americans, Latinos and Asian-Americans in leadership positions.

My parents were part of this conservative Charismatic "racial reconciliation" prayer network movement. I have doubts about how successful they will be in "getting AAs to vote Republican", since we are so used to being TOKENIZED by people who do not give a crap about our issues.

But they are a lot farther along than other con Christian groups, and other con Christian groups resent them for it.

There are a thimbleful of conservative whites who really are sorry about their ancestor's violent slaver/segregationist history and wish they could rectify it. They are drawn to this movement. My parents while they were alive had quite a few of those kinds of friends. Too bad a lot of them were still conservative assholes when it came to everything else.

645 What, me worry?  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:23:17pm

Give SFZ some time to get down thread. She's a quick reader :)

646 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:23:34pm

re: #638 SanFranciscoZionist

Norway is going to have questions about this for some people.

Depending on if it is true or not, and this guy=Fjordman, they will have questions for Pamela Gellar and GoV.

Also, the horrific scale of this attack (3rd deadliest terror attack in Europe since WWII, and a fatality to population ratio higher than 9/11) may force the rest of Europe and sober up and deal with their bigots.

647 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:26:04pm

re: #94 Alouette

Hate to go all OT, just want you all to know my grandson's ears are fine! He was examined this morning by a specialist who told my son the baby's hearing is normal, he just has a piece of skin covering his ear canal. Kind of like a foreskin over his ear.

So looks like he will be getting a bris for his peepee and another bris for his ear. :)

Terrific news!!

648 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:27:59pm

re: #642 simoom

Oh god, the number went up more. Now has a fatality-to-population ratio twice that of 9/11.

649 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:28:12pm

re: #139 Obdicut

The guy asserting that he was recruited by Islamic militants, just like McVeigh, I don't think is joking. There's a belief in extremist circles that McVeigh was just an AQ dupe.

That has to do with Nichols' maybe-connection to Filipino Muslim militants, right? Through the wife?

It's a fascinating idea, but they've always come up dry AFAIK.

650 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:31:01pm

re: #201 ggt

According to the CIA factbook:

Norwegian 94.4% (includes Sami, about 60,000), other European 3.6%, other 2% (2007 estimate)

Can't be. I have it on reliable authority that the place is completely overrun with rapist Muslim immigrants living on welfare and destroying the place altogether.

//fucking sarc tags

651 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:31:51pm

re: #341 SpaceJesus

...most Europeans tend to be more open-minded, and interested in a good discussion over beers and coffee.

(The Ghost of Flea has dropped dead writhing in derisive laughter on the basis on this comment. He was unable to repel lazy stereotyping of that magnitude.)

652 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:34:48pm

re: #637 palomino

All true--racism is not unique to one part of the country. But the South does have an especially horrific track record with respect to race relations. And the racist backlash against Obama is particularly bad down south, where both the tea party and the gop (to the extent that there's a difference) have their base of power.

Yes, of course. But we shouldn't be prejudiced against all Southerners because of that legacy. Anymore than we would be towards Germans and Japanese for theirs. Neither should we because of whatever particular extremism might be focused there at this time.

You know. I know two contractors in Denver. One's a liberal Democrat (from NY) and the other is a Denver Tea Party guy (he loves Palin). They both work together arguing sometimes about politics but they're still good friends.

People should be judged for who they are and not where they're from and what kind of music they like or whether they're a Republican or Democrat. I've found this to be true in life.

653 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:35:00pm

re: #279 oslogin

They're probably okay. Most victims are kids from the Labour Party Youth; seven are confirmed killed in Oslo bombing. 80 victims at Utøya, which lies northwest of Oslo. It was their summer camp; 560 young people there.

One man did that.

654 tommysilver  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:36:28pm

re: #639 SanFranciscoZionist

I assumed Muslims were to blame. I guessed wrong. Jesus fucking Christ, did I guess wrong.

I suppose there is no use hoping that Norway has the death penalty?

Not only no death penalty, very difficult to get a life sentence as well. Maximum is 21 years for murder but maybe it can be more in this instance? [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

655 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:36:38pm

re: #292 Shiplord Kirel

Ghastly. If I am not mistaken, this will be the worst mass murder ever perpetrated by an individual with firearms. You can see in the pictures that it is a small island. The young people were trapped and the soul-dead monster hunted them down as they tried to flee or hide.
I know how most of you feel about vigilante justice and due process, but it would have been a mercy to all concerned if the perpetrator had been summarily killed right on the spot.

No. Let him speak. Let him tell the entire world why he killed eighty children with guns.

And then let him rot somewhere.

Let there be absolutely no question who did this, and why.

656 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:37:20pm

re: #644 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My parents were part of this conservative Charismatic "racial reconciliation" prayer network movement. I have doubts about how successful they will be in "getting AAs to vote Republican", since we are so used to being TOKENIZED by people who do not give a crap about our issues.
...
There are a thimbleful of conservative whites who really are sorry about their ancestor's violent slaver/segregationist history and wish they could rectify it. They are drawn to this movement. My parents while they were alive had quite a few of those kinds of friends. Too bad a lot of them were still conservative assholes when it came to everything else.

That might change when the moral dimension is augmented by a meaningful quid pro quo and balance of power. If the numbers work out so dumping the David Dukes is electorally favorable to the Religious Right, the shift could be abrupt. Cf. Reagan Democrats.

I'm not making a prediction. I'm stating a scenario.

And saying good night to all.

657 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:37:44pm

What a terrible day for these people. Kids. Kids. I can't even wrap my brain around this. I can't stand children being harmed. This is devastating.

658 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:38:06pm

re: #310 JasonA

Every time I see a pic of this guy's face I can't help but think that he would look perfect in an SS uniform.

I suspect that he agrees with you.

In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised to learn that the fucker owns one.

659 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:40:07pm

re: #346 Drogheda

Thursday at Utøya

Jonas Gahr Store: - The occupation must end, the wall must be demolished and it must happen now

This may have pissed the suspect off a bit.

I could give a flying fuck what pissed him off.

660 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:42:43pm

re: #366 SpaceJesus

Are you trying to say that France is as racist as Mississippi or something

Ever had that charming conversation where a suave, intellectual European starts to tell you about how they understand that Americans get all upset about 'racism', but it's just that the Algerians/Roma/travellers/Pakistanis, whatever really are filthy and taking all the jobs?

I have.

It did not make me dislike whole nations, but it surely disabused me of the notion that any of them are all that clean-handed when it comes to this crap.

661 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:45:05pm

re: #402 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now they're comparing this attack to the Reichstag fires.

They compare EVERYTHING to the Reichstag. They are OBSESSED with the Reichstag.

662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:45:57pm

re: #656 jvic

That might change when the moral dimension is augmented by a meaningful quid pro quo and balance of power. If the numbers work out so dumping the David Dukes is electorally favorable to the Religious Right, the shift could be abrupt. Cf. Reagan Democrats.

I'm not making a prediction. I'm stating a scenario.

And saying good night to all.

That's the goal, but that's been the goal since Paul Weyrich and Richard Viguerie wrote www.leadershipinstitute.org...]>The New Right: We're Ready to Lead back in 1980 when the white rightwing was in the first generation of seething from having been smacked down by the Civil Rights movement.

The only reason anyone even gives a shyt about our vote is for the moral symbolism and prestige. It wasn't so prior to the gains of Civil Rights but it's defintely the case, right now.

663 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:48:47pm

re: #660 SanFranciscoZionist

It did not make me dislike whole nations, but it surely disabused me of the notion that any of them are all that clean-handed when it comes to this crap.

There was a Belgian guy I knew in undergrad who made himself rather infamous in a Black Studies class. No one had accused him of anything, but learning US race relations history was getting to him. In a conversation after class he got defensive and told people "But! I'm not WHITE, I'm EUROPEAN!!!".

Concentric circles of rotfl ensued.

664 Gus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:51:21pm

They should probably throw Anders Behring Breivik into a vat of molten steel and then bury him at sea. After the steel cools off of course.

//

665 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:52:38pm

re: #660 SanFranciscoZionist

This picture tells you what Oslo is.

666 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:52:50pm

re: #632 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

In what way?

Pam's type of crap. Now that they've had it pointed out that the perp was not a Muslim, they're doing a cutesy "Oooooh, I wonder why I would have thought that. Well, MODERATE MUSLIMS can sleep sound tonight!! Finally it wasn't one of theirs!!" Blah blah.

Not a fucking care in the world for the victims, when if this had been a jihadi thing, they'd have been crying their fucking racist eyes out for them.

I'm having issues. These are people connected to political groups I work with. I need to figure out how to do the work I do without getting this crap on me.

667 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:54:04pm

re: #636 Gus 802

Hey SFZ I have a question. Are your neighbors being quiet tonight?

Uh, yeah. I can hear babies crying, and someone has the TV on.

The partyers next door seem to have gotten the message from management.

668 SpaceJesus  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:57:53pm

re: #602 Rightwingconspirator

Over simplify? The Civil Rights Act applies to all minorities, and the South overwhelming voted against it.

669 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:58:12pm

re: #666 SanFranciscoZionist

Pam's type of crap. Now that they've had it pointed out that the perp was not a Muslim, they're doing a cutesy "Ooooh, I wonder why I would have thought that. Well, MODERATE MUSLIMS can sleep sound tonight!! Finally it wasn't one of theirs!!" Blah blah.

Not a fucking care in the world for the victims, when if this had been a jihadi thing, they'd have been crying their fucking racist eyes out for them.

I'm having issues. These are people connected to political groups I work with. I need to figure out how to do the work I do without getting this crap on me.

I know what you mean. I'm in a similar boat with a couple BDS bullshitters I know. They are 1-2 times removed from my personal circle but we do not exist in vacuums, so it is a dilemma for thinking people.

670 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:03:59pm

re: #652 Gus 802

Yes, of course. But we shouldn't be prejudiced against all Southerners because of that legacy. Anymore than we would be towards Germans and Japanese for theirs. Neither should we because of whatever particular extremism might be focused there at this time.

You know. I know two contractors in Denver. One's a liberal Democrat (from NY) and the other is a Denver Tea Party guy (he loves Palin). They both work together arguing sometimes about politics but they're still good friends.

People should be judged for who they are and not where they're from and what kind of music they like or whether they're a Republican or Democrat. I've found this to be true in life.

re: #652 Gus 802

Yes, of course. But we shouldn't be prejudiced against all Southerners because of that legacy. Anymore than we would be towards Germans and Japanese for theirs. Neither should we because of whatever particular extremism might be focused there at this time.

You know. I know two contractors in Denver. One's a liberal Democrat (from NY) and the other is a Denver Tea Party guy (he loves Palin). They both work together arguing sometimes about politics but they're still good friends.

People should be judged for who they are and not where they're from and what kind of music they like or whether they're a Republican or Democrat. I've found this to be true in life.

Agreed. I would never judge an individual based on where they're from. But the South, as a region, has some cultural maturation to do. In 2004, Kerry got 20% of the white vote in Alabama; in 2008, Obama only got 9% of that state's white vote. The only other states with similar statistical trends were in the deep South. Having been born and raised in TX in the 60s and 70s, I saw and heard a lot of nasty crap growing up. Things are much better now, but I know several tea partiers who straight up admit that they couldn't vote for, or in any way support, Obama simply due to his race. I can't help but conclude that a certain backwardness in the culture of the region plays a role in these attitudes being more prevalent in the deep South.

671 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:04:12pm

re: #667 SanFranciscoZionist

Uh, yeah. I can hear babies crying, and someone has the TV on.

The partyers next door seem to have gotten the message from management.

Why?

672 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:07:17pm

I guess I simply don't get the obsession with discussing the South's racial problems. I live in California. We have racial problems of our own.

Why is it so important to go over this again, and again, and again?

673 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:09:57pm

re: #672 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess I simply don't get the obsession with discussing the South's racial problems. I live in California. We have racial problems of our own.

Why is it so important to go over this again, and again, and again?

Amen. I've argued at length. I'm done.

674 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:14:08pm

re: #672 SanFranciscoZionist

I guess I simply don't get the obsession with discussing the South's racial problems. I live in California. We have racial problems of our own.

Why is it so important to go over this again, and again, and again?

Because it helps to explain the bizarre overreactions of the tea partiers and others obsessed with the notion that Obama is not a legitimate president, but rather a threat who hates America.

And because our racist past is the darkest stain on American history.

675 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:17:44pm

re: #674 palomino

I went to a tea party meeting.....in Buffalo, NY. Open racism on display there.

676 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:19:53pm

re: #674 palomino

Because it helps to explain the bizarre overreactions of the tea partiers and others obsessed with the notion that Obama is not a legitimate president, but rather a threat who hates America.

And because our racist past is the darkest stain on American history.

The Tea Party is not limited to the South, though, and many of the craziest anti-Obama types are not Southerners of any kind. For that matter, 'our racist past' is not limited to the South. We have nuts from every state in the Union doing this.

I'm aware of the specific and convoluted racial history of the Southern states, but this discussion, each time we have it, seems less like a discussion of history and politics, and more like...I'm not sure WHAT it is. It doesn't feel productive, or enlightening.

677 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:20:48pm

re: #675 tnguitarist

I went to a tea party meeting...in Buffalo, NY. Open racism on display there.

Sure, you can find racism all across America. We all know that. But the deep South is different, and it always has been. It's the epicenter of both the tea party movement and the current gop, which is no accident.

678 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:22:31pm

re: #676 SanFranciscoZionist

I just don't get the endgame. What is going to change the past? Nothing.....well, maybe the Texas School Board.

679 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:23:07pm

re: #677 palomino

Do you live in the deep South?

680 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:28:41pm

re: #676 SanFranciscoZionist

The Tea Party is not limited to the South, though, and many of the craziest anti-Obama types are not Southerners of any kind. For that matter, 'our racist past' is not limited to the South. We have nuts from every state in the Union doing this.

I'm aware of the specific and convoluted racial history of the Southern states, but this discussion, each time we have it, seems less like a discussion of history and politics, and more like...I'm not sure WHAT it is. It doesn't feel productive, or enlightening.

Sorry you don't find it enlightening, but I don't think the hysterical anti-Obama phenomenon we've witnessed over the last three years can be understood without discussing racism and xenophobia. And while there's always been racism everywhere, in the context of the US, it's been most extreme, violent and open in the deep South. I'm simply making an observation in hopes of advancing an understanding of these historical times, not suggesting that the South is evil--just peculiar, provincial, hyper-religious, and a bit backwards.

681 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:30:02pm

re: #680 palomino

and a bit backwards.

Shoes??.......Whuter them fer??

682 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:30:46pm

re: #675 tnguitarist

I went to a tea party meeting...in Buffalo, NY. Open racism on display there.

Doing some Google work: Bachmann's from Minnesota, Palin's an Alaskan. Christine O'Donnell is in Delaware, born in Pennsylvania. Orly Taitz is Russian, or something. Sharron Angle was born in Oregon, runs in Nevada. Walker is in Wisconsin. The Koch brothers are from Kansas and live in New York. Trump's a New Yorker. Ron Paul did make his way to Texas, but he's from Pittsburgh, and his son was born there too. Scott Brown's from Maine. Pam Geller's a New Yorker. Gingrich is from Pennsylvania. Andy Martin, called 'king of the Birthers' is from Connecticut.

Sure, there are Southerners, (Vitter and Huckabee, for example) and some of the people above have run in Southern states. But I'm not getting the idea that this craziness is issuing from the deep heart of Dixie, and the rest of us are just along for the ride.

683 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:31:01pm

re: #679 tnguitarist

Do you live in the deep South?

Born and raised in Houston.

684 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:32:31pm

re: #683 palomino

Born and raised in Houston.

Texas...it's a whole 'nother country!

685 Winny Spencer  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:33:00pm

Well, I was completely wrong and can only apologies profusely for being a fool yesterday.

Incidentally, the Website "realisten.se" that has been linked above and mentioned in connection with the shooter is a Swedish neo-Nazi website, the official Website of this group:

Party of the Swedes

A previous incarnation of which was this:

National Socialist Front

686 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:34:17pm

re: #685 Winny Spencer

Well, I was completely wrong and can only apologies profusely for being a fool yesterday.

Incidentally, the Website "realisten.se" that has been linked above and mentioned in connection with the shooter is a Swedish neo-Nazi website, the official Website of this group:

Party of the Swedes

A previous incarnation of which was this:

National Socialist Front

Ain't this a kick in the head?

687 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:36:07pm

re: #684 tnguitarist

Texas...it's a whole 'nother country!

So was California for twenty-six days. (We had a good run. Then the US Army showed up.)

688 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:36:36pm

re: #682 SanFranciscoZionist

Doing some Google work: Bachmann's from Minnesota, Palin's an Alaskan. Christine O'Donnell is in Delaware, born in Pennsylvania. Orly Taitz is Russian, or something. Sharron Angle was born in Oregon, runs in Nevada. Walker is in Wisconsin. The Koch brothers are from Kansas and live in New York. Trump's a New Yorker. Ron Paul did make his way to Texas, but he's from Pittsburgh, and his son was born there too. Scott Brown's from Maine. Pam Geller's a New Yorker. Gingrich is from Pennsylvania. Andy Martin, called 'king of the Birthers' is from Connecticut.

Sure, there are Southerners, (Vitter and Huckabee, for example) and some of the people above have run in Southern states. But I'm not getting the idea that this craziness is issuing from the deep heart of Dixie, and the rest of us are just along for the ride.

Of course it's not that simple, and you can find all sorts of anecdotal data that shows racism all over. But poll after poll shows that the most racist attitudes still reside in the South, and that the center of gravity in the modern gop (as well as the evangelical movement) is the South, a process which began with the sinister and blatantly racist "southern strategy" of Goldwater and Nixon.

689 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:36:47pm

No one is upstairs?

690 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:37:35pm

I'm having a very strange (read:uncomfortable) conversation with an ex-girlfriend on facebook right now.....

691 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:38:13pm

re: #690 tnguitarist

I'm having a very strange (read:uncomfortable) conversation with an ex-girlfriend on facebook right now...

stay away from ex-es. It can lead to excess.

692 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:38:23pm

re: #689 ggt

No one is upstairs?

It's late and my knees hurt. Don't feel like walking up the stairs.

693 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:38:40pm

I"m having an horrible case of the allergy itchies. Can't sleep. Took an antihistimine. Hope it kicks in soon.

694 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:39:21pm

re: #692 tnguitarist

It's late and my knees hurt. Don't feel like walking up the stairs.

I understand.

695 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:40:14pm

re: #691 ggt

stay away from ex-es. It can lead to excess.

She's telling me about how she is back to her high school weight....and about her implants. 0_0

696 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:40:21pm

re: #684 tnguitarist

Texas...it's a whole 'nother country!

Texas should really be 4 or 5 states. It's too big geographically to make sense as one state. Lots of people in TX live closer to the state capitals of five other states than they do to Austin. And much of the state could easily fit in with Oklahoma, New Mexico or Louisiana. Or hell.

697 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:42:04pm

re: #696 palomino

Texas should really be 4 or 5 states. It's too big geographically to make sense as one state. Lots of people in TX live closer to the state capitals of five other states than they do to Austin. And much of the state could easily fit in with Oklahoma, New Mexico or Louisiana. Or hell.

or Mexico. . . .

698 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:42:19pm

re: #688 palomino

Of course it's not that simple, and you can find all sorts of anecdotal data that shows racism all over. But poll after poll shows that the most racist attitudes still reside in the South, and that the center of gravity in the modern gop (as well as the evangelical movement) is the South, a process which began with the sinister and blatantly racist "southern strategy" of Goldwater and Nixon.

That's true, to some degree (you can find a lot more than 'anecdotal' evidence of racism all over). But that was all true before Obama came into office.

And out West, I can see how people buy into the Tea Party here for all kinds of reasons, our local racial problems being one of them.

It's a bit more complicated than this incessant banging on 'the South still has deep-rooted racism, therefore...something'.

I hear what you're saying. I do know this stuff. But I also remember that Bill Clinton was accused of MURDER by these people, and, pace Maya Angelou, he actually was white.

699 tnguitarist  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:42:28pm

re: #696 palomino

Didn't the used to be their tourist slogan? Maybe you never saw it since you live there. That makes me curious as to how TN is marketed outside of the state....hmm.

700 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:44:02pm

re: #698 SanFranciscoZionist

That's true, to some degree (you can find a lot more than 'anecdotal' evidence of racism all over). But that was all true before Obama came into office.

And out West, I can see how people buy into the Tea Party here for all kinds of reasons, our local racial problems being one of them.

It's a bit more complicated than this incessant banging on 'the South still has deep-rooted racism, therefore...something'.

I hear what you're saying. I do know this stuff. But I also remember that Bill Clinton was accused of MURDER by these people, and, pace Maya Angelou, he actually was white.

There is Chinese, Native American and Hispanic racism in the West for as long or longer than the South.

701 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:45:58pm

re: #697 ggt

or Mexico. . . .

yeah, I guess that goes without saying. Strange thing: my wife and I drive from L.A. to San Antonio and Houston several times a year. We usually stop in El Paso, since it's the halfway point on I-10. Anyway, El Paso is one of the safest cities in America, while literally two miles away, in Juarez, there exists the murder capital of the world. Unbelievable what's currently happening in Mexico with the drug cartels. I haven't seen stats, but it must be devastating their tourism industry, which was one of the country's few economic bright spots.

702 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:47:01pm

re: #701 palomino

yeah, I guess that goes without saying. Strange thing: my wife and I drive from L.A. to San Antonio and Houston several times a year. We usually stop in El Paso, since it's the halfway point on I-10. Anyway, El Paso is one of the safest cities in America, while literally two miles away, in Juarez, there exists the murder capital of the world. Unbelievable what's currently happening in Mexico with the drug cartels. I haven't seen stats, but it must be devastating their tourism industry, which was one of the country's few economic bright spots.

IIRC, there have been shots fired across the border --heading North. It's a holy mess.

703 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:49:48pm

Posted upstairs too!

Internet Cuteness Alert!

704 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:57:55pm

re: #698 SanFranciscoZionist

That's true, to some degree (you can find a lot more than 'anecdotal' evidence of racism all over). But that was all true before Obama came into office.

And out West, I can see how people buy into the Tea Party here for all kinds of reasons, our local racial problems being one of them.

It's a bit more complicated than this incessant banging on 'the South still has deep-rooted racism, therefore...something'.

I hear what you're saying. I do know this stuff. But I also remember that Bill Clinton was accused of MURDER by these people, and, pace Maya Angelou, he actually was white.

Oh, I have no illusions that Republicans would be treating Hillary with much more respect than Obama. And their first priority would still be to "make sure she's a one-term president." But the use of his race and "foreign-ness" against Obama is reprehensible and in some ways unprecedented. Future generations will probably look back with shame at the way we treated the nation's first black president.

As a southerner who's also lived in Boston, NYC and LA, all I can tell you is that some things are worse down there. I rarely hear the n-word used here in Cali, but it's used quite "liberally" in the speech of many southerners I've known over the years...everyone from poor whites in trailer parks to upper class educated professionals. It's an unfortunate cultural vestige that is dying only too slowly. And it's of a piece with the mentality that would suggest secession (Rick Perry style) over accepting the reality of a black president.

705 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:00:25am

Storms coming thru Chicagoland. I can hear them now.

706 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:01:21am

re: #680 palomino

Sorry you don't find it enlightening, but I don't think the hysterical anti-Obama phenomenon we've witnessed over the last three years can be understood without discussing racism and xenophobia. And while there's always been racism everywhere, in the context of the US, it's been most extreme, violent and open in the deep South.

Not true. Ex: Washington State

Anti-Chinese Riot, Seattle 1886

KKK in Washington State

Timeline: Asian Americans in Washington State

Racial Restrictive Housing/Neighborhood Covenants in Seattle

Seattle Open Housing Campaign 1959-1968 -
Bibliography

There's a lot more, just for Washington. Don't get me started on California.

I'm simply making an observation in hopes of advancing an understanding of these historical times, not suggesting that the South is evil--just peculiar, provincial, hyper-religious, and a bit backwards.

Not really. You should check into de jure vs de facto discrimination. It was just that southern states that were dim jim enough to put their whites-only/anti-minority statutes on the books - that's de jure segregation.

It's a truism at this point, but that's why the bulk of the Civil Rights movement operated in the south, because the south had tangible laws to smack down. But that was not the only place those laws and norms were smaked down, though those states are the most notorious.

707 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:01:26am

re: #700 ggt

There is Chinese, Native American and Hispanic racism in the West for as long or longer than the South.

Huh? Slavery started in the US in the early 1600s. Was there really much history of anti-Chinese or anti-mestizo racism in California at that time?

708 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:04:23am

re: #707 palomino

Huh? Slavery started in the US in the early 1600s. Was there really much history of anti-Chinese or anti-mestizo racism in California at that time?

The Spanish were there.

709 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:05:47am

re: #707 palomino

Huh? Slavery started in the US in the early 1600s. Was there really much history of anti-Chinese or anti-mestizo racism in California at that time?

There was anti-Chinese and anti-mestizo racism in California from the outset of "California".

As for slavery, the only reason it wasn't an official slave state was because of the Compromise of 1850. But they hated us long before we were in great numbers here. Once we started to come here, there were anti-alien laws and school, housing, and employment segregation statutes, long in place.

710 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:07:46am

re: #703 ggt

The one on the scale is way too much.

711 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:08:12am

re: #706 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm not saying by any stretch that racism exists only in the South. But anti-black racism has always been worse in Dixie...from slavery to Jim Crow to lynchings to segregation to poll taxes to the current inability to accept a black guy as president. It's just another piece of the American cultural mosaic.

And, yes, I know that there have been lynchings outside the South, as well as other atrocities. But the notion that this activity has been evenly distributed across the US is just historically inaccurate. It's the kind of fallacy that neo-Confederates like to peddle.

712 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:08:20am

re: #710 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The one on the scale is way too much.

I know! Their markings make for the best expressions!

713 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:11:12am

re: #708 ggt

The Spanish were there.

Yes, they were. And they screwed over the Indians, but there weren't a lot of Chinese there in the early 1600s. Regardless there was never anything institutionalized like slavery, which is a unique stain on America's past.

714 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:11:15am

re: #711 palomino

I'm not saying by any stretch that racism exists only in the South. But anti-black racism has always been worse in Dixie...from slavery to Jim Crow to lynchings to segregation to poll taxes to the current inability to accept a black guy as president. It's just another piece of the American cultural mosaic.

And, yes, I know that there have been lynchings outside the South, as well as other atrocities. But the notion that this activity has been evenly distributed across the US is just historically inaccurate. It's the kind of fallacy that neo-Confederates like to peddle.

Anti-black racism seems to have been global for much longer than slavery in the US South was in place. It still exists today.

The word abeed comes to mind. Even darker skinned asians in the Chinese culture were looked-down-upon. Peasants working in the field -you know.

Insidious.

715 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:11:15am

re: #704 palomino

As a southerner who's also lived in Boston, NYC and LA, all I can tell you is that some things are worse down there. I rarely hear the n-word used here in Cali, but it's used quite "liberally" in the speech of many southerners I've known over the years...everyone from poor whites in trailer parks to upper class educated professionals.

Lol try growing up Black here. The experience will be quite different, I guarantee you.

Tbh, the use of the n-word isn't really a good measure of much, afaic.

716 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:12:00am

re: #715 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol try growing up Black here. The experience will be quite different, I guarantee you.

Tbh, the use of the n-word isn't really a good measure of much, afaic.

overt vs covert racism . . .

717 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:13:57am

Storm is definitely here. I"m going to take advantage and see if it helps me sleep.

Night all!

718 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:14:06am

re: #709 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There was anti-Chinese and anti-mestizo racism in California from the outset of "California".

As for slavery, the only reason it wasn't an official slave state was because of the Compromise of 1850. But they hated us long before we were in great numbers here. Once we started to come here, there were anti-alien laws and school, housing, and employment segregation statutes, long in place.

All true. And, again, I'm not implying that racism is solely some southern phenomenon. But, come on, you gotta admit that nobody did racism as "well" as the South. They seceded over it, after all. And the current racist political strategy isn't known as the western strategy.

719 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:14:11am

re: #716 ggt

overt vs covert racism . . .

..is still racism.

720 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:20:54am

re: #715 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol try growing up Black here. The experience will be quite different, I guarantee you.

Tbh, the use of the n-word isn't really a good measure of much, afaic.

Try growing up black where? It's probably not easy anywhere, but it was especially hard for the first black family that moved into my Houston suburb in the 1970s. A doctor's family in an upper mid class neighborhood, and they still had to deal with a cross being burned on their front lawn.

This isn't rocket science. The South, unlike any other part of the US, seceded and fought to maintain slavery and a racist hierarchy. It's only natural that there would be more lingering vestiges of racism in the south.

721 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:23:03am

re: #713 palomino

Yes, they were. And they screwed over the Indians, but there weren't a lot of Chinese there in the early 1600s. Regardless there was never anything institutionalized like slavery, which is a unique stain on America's past.

Not so. Nothing was institutionalized like slavery but plenty of white-bigot conservative crap was institutionalized and sometimes not even broken down until the 60s.

One of the reasons for such low Chinese numbers was exclusion, and immigration quotas that restricted them.

Anti-Coolie Act, CA 1862

Anti-Coolie Law, 1862

Asian-Americans, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, Hindus and Sikhs, like we did in 1896, had rights taken away from them via several Anti-Alien laws.

Asiatic Exclusion League check out that founding city

CA Alien Land Law of 1913

Rotfl

722 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:29:42am

re: #720 palomino

Try growing up black where?

California.

It's probably not easy anywhere, but it was especially hard for the first black family that moved into my Houston suburb in the 1970s. A doctor's family in an upper mid class neighborhood, and they still had to deal with a cross being burned on their front lawn.

So did my parents, 1967, southern CA suburbs. When they moved here from segregated back east in 1964, there were still "no blacks" signs in rentals.

My parents, my family, the Black family in Houston suburb, we are by no means the first who went through this, nor the last, nor was it the last time my family would have to deal with them.

Point is, it's rough all over. The south deserves every bit of derision they get for their behavior. But they are by no means the only ones with that kind of history. It's just that theirs made the news.

723 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:34:39am

re: #718 palomino

But, come on, you gotta admit that nobody did racism as "well" as the South.

I don't think so. I don't think Ted Landsmark of Boston thought so in 1976, either.

Image: d253f2_050603busing.jpg

He was a civil rights lawyer known for his work with integration in Boston. And we know how well that went over. :/

724 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:35:08am

re: #721 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not so. Nothing was institutionalized like slavery but plenty of white-bigot conservative crap was institutionalized and sometimes not even broken down until the 60s.

One of the reasons for such low Chinese numbers was exclusion, and immigration quotas that restricted them.

Anti-Coolie Act, CA 1862

Anti-Coolie Law, 1862

Asian-Americans, i.e., Chinese, Japanese, Filipino, Hindus and Sikhs, like we did in 1896, had rights taken away from them via several Anti-Alien laws.

Asiatic Exclusion League check out that founding city

CA Alien Land Law of 1913

Rotfl

I think you left out the anti-Chinese laundry act in San Francisco. Ironically it led to the first Supreme Court decision upholding the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, in the Yick Wo case.

Purely subjective, I'll admit, but I would contend that anti-black (and anti-Asian as well) sentiment is more of a problem in the south today than on the west coast. Just my impression having lived almost half my life in the South and the other half in L.A.

725 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:42:04am

re: #722 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

California.

So did my parents, 1967, southern CA suburbs. When they moved here from segregated back east in 1964, there were still "no blacks" signs in rentals.

My parents, my family, the Black family in Houston suburb, we are by no means the first who went through this, nor the last, nor was it the last time my family would have to deal with them.

Point is, it's rough all over. The south deserves every bit of derision they get for their behavior. But they are by no means the only ones with that kind of history. It's just that theirs made the news.

But didn't it "make the news" for a reason? Maybe because it was just so unbelivably bad in the south that the rest of the country, although also racist, said "Wait, that has to stop. It's so bad even we can't take it."

726 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:44:40am

re: #723 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think so. I don't think Ted Landsmark of Boston thought so in 1976, either.

Image: d253f2_050603busing.jpg

He was a civil rights lawyer known for his work with integration in Boston. And we know how well that went over. :/

Really? Based on that one example, you wouldn't give the overall racism prize to the south? The south "wins" this one on points alone.

727 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:46:07am

re: #724 palomino

I think you left out the anti-Chinese laundry act in San Francisco. Ironically it led to the first Supreme Court decision upholding the Equal Protection clause of the 14th Amendment, in the Yick Wo case.

Purely subjective, I'll admit, but I would contend that anti-black (and anti-Asian as well) sentiment is more of a problem in the south today than on the west coast. Just my impression having lived almost half my life in the South and the other half in L.A.

I would say that's because you've never lived as a black person in any part of the country. Look how they treat the Obamas - they are the first family...doesn't spare them in the least.

I'm not sure where you are in LA (are you in the city proper?) or how long you've lived there, but there have been some improvements over the years.

And don't get me wrong - it's only a slight disagreement. I'm not saying the problems in "the south" are any better than anywhere else. But it's probably clear I have a pretty jaundiced view of this entire country's attitudes, not just the south's.

Re: California, I left out plenty, because there's so much to tell. There's no end to the dumb segregationist passed by white bigots, against all comers.

728 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:49:11am

re: #725 palomino

But didn't it "make the news" for a reason?

Yeah, so bigots in other parts of the country could use "the south" as a cover for their own segregationist behavior.

It also made the news because that was part of Civil Rights strategy to make it do so, all around the world. Especially at a time when we were supposedly fighting for the individual freedoms of Koreans and Vietnamese.

None of this stuff just happened out of the blue.

729 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:50:20am

re: #726 palomino

Really? Based on that one example, you wouldn't give the overall racism prize to the south? The south "wins" this one on points alone.

One example, lol.

Are you aware of what happened to Black children who had to integrate Southie?

It's not a contest, btw. There are no prizes to win, no trophies to be displayed.

730 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:57:52am

re: #727 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would say that's because you've never lived as a black person in any part of the country. Look how they treat the Obamas - they are the first family...doesn't spare them in the least.

I'm not sure where you are in LA (are you in the city proper?) or how long you've lived there, but there have been some improvements over the years.

And don't get me wrong - it's only a slight disagreement. I'm not saying the problems in "the south" are any better than anywhere else. But it's probably clear I have a pretty jaundiced view of this entire country's attitudes, not just the south's.

Re: California, I left out plenty, because there's so much to tell. There's no end to the dumb segregationist passed by white bigots, against all comers.

I've lived all over L.A.--off campus at USC, mid Wilshire, Studio City now. Yeah, I know the city's a lot better. The likes of Darryl Gates as Chief of Police is a thing of the past, for one thing.

And my original hometown of Houston has improved a lot as well. It's the largest city with an openly gay mayor. Still, I'd say NY and CA are more hospitable to gays, since they don't have anti-civil union (or anything for gays) written into their state constitutions.

All I have to go on here are two things: my experience and polling data. Texas seemed like a more racist place to me because I heard people vocalize blatantly racist sentiments more often there. And there's quite a bit of polling data showing the south somewhat lagging behind the rest of the country in terms of overall tolerance.

731 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:05:13am

re: #728 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, so bigots in other parts of the country could use "the south" as a cover for their own segregationist behavior.

It also made the news because that was part of Civil Rights strategy to make it do so, all around the world. Especially at a time when we were supposedly fighting for the individual freedoms of Koreans and Vietnamese.

None of this stuff just happened out of the blue.

I think that's only part of the answer. Overall the oppression and violence in the south were demonstrably more severe than the rest of the country. Maybe I'm a "self-hating southerner", as some of my friends have called me. But being honest about one's heritage (mine) means facing up to the mistakes and atrocities committed by those people.

732 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:12:36am

re: #730 palomino

I've lived all over L.A.--off campus at USC, mid Wilshire, Studio City now. Yeah, I know the city's a lot better. The likes of Darryl Gates as Chief of Police is a thing of the past, for one thing.

And my original hometown of Houston has improved a lot as well. It's the largest city with an openly gay mayor. Still, I'd say NY and CA are more hospitable to gays, since they don't have anti-civil union (or anything for gays) written into their state constitutions.

Don't forget about Prop 22 (2000), which is how California ended up with the Prop 8 mess in the first place.

Prop 8 was meant to amend the state constitution. It passed with a lesser margin than Prop 22, and its on its way into the 14th amendment dustbin with the rest of the bigot statutes. So things have improved, in just a decade. Re: gay rights, the improvements overall have been exponential, compared to race.

Trust me, I've no reason to romanticize or defend the south. I went to a Fundagelical college in a southern state for 3 years and don't intend to ever live in the south ever again, unless it's the gay part of Atlanta. For one, it's too darn hot. The other is, there is a lot of work to do rightchere. :)

733 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:25:46am

re: #731 palomino

I think that's only part of the answer. Overall the oppression and violence in the south were demonstrably more severe than the rest of the country. Maybe I'm a "self-hating southerner", as some of my friends have called me. But being honest about one's heritage (mine) means facing up to the mistakes and atrocities committed by those people.

I can't make any personal judgments on you, but in my mind it's not a contest.

No, there is no equivalent of Selma-Montgomery, anywhere. No, there is no equivalent of American chattel slavery that went on in the southern states. No Birmingham, no dogs, no waterhoses, at least not on camera in front of the whole world.

Otoh, thanks to California bigots, CA plays a major role in the desegregation ruling that propelled the Civil Rights movement to do what they did in Selma, on the Freedom Rides, in Little Rock, and countless countless countless other things.

Also courtesy of California racial purity bigots, we also now have Perez v Sharp, that went into overturning ALL states' anti-race-mixing laws.

All those laws had the same result: expanded opportunities for whites, curtailed opportunities for everyone else.

734 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:30:35am

re: #726 palomino

Really? Based on that one example, you wouldn't give the overall racism prize to the south? The south "wins" this one on points alone.

Just reread this...that incident happened in Massachusetts, not the south.

735 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:47:29am

re: #734 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Just reread this...that incident happened in Massachusetts, not the south.

I'm well aware of the problems with busing and overall in Boston. I was living there when a white guy accused a black guy of having killed his wife. Police went nuts, rounding up young black men all over. Turned out, of course, the white guy had killed his own wife.

And yes, I'm aware there are no dubious trophies for being the best/worst racist. But there's nothing wrong with comparing different regions of the country...we're a huge and diverse nation (maybe the most diverse, at least by some metrics.)

736 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:54:33am

re: #735 palomino

I'm well aware of the problems with busing and overall in Boston. I was living there when a white guy accused a black guy of having killed his wife. Police went nuts, rounding up young black men all over. Turned out, of course, the white guy had killed his own wife.

And yes, I'm aware there are no dubious trophies for being the best/worst racist. But there's nothing wrong with comparing different regions of the country...we're a huge and diverse nation (maybe the most diverse, at least by some metrics.)

Isn't that what we're doing?

For minorities, it's not an academic or abstract exercise. We have to compare these places and know what their histories are. It's easy enough to get the infamous "neighborhood welcome" anywhere you go...might as well mitigate any surprises.

737 palomino  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:11:50am

re: #736 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Isn't that what we're doing?

For minorities, it's not an academic or abstract exercise. We have to compare these places and know what their histories are. It's easy enough to get the infamous "neighborhood welcome" anywhere you go...might as well mitigate any surprises.

That's a pretty pathetic map. I was aware of Vidor, TX because of the movie Thin Blue Line. And I suspected quite a few across the south. But every state having at least a few was a surprise.

I'm not suggesting this is abstract for you or anyone else. Part of my anipathy is rooted in the red states vs. the blue. The south is just solidly red, and has the highest concentration of science denying evangelicals. And I'm sorry, but when Cong. Wilson of South Carolina screams, "You lie!" at the President I see race as a factor, especially given Wilson's background. I'm probably too drunk/stoned to continue this conversation. I don't think I'm making any sense at all.

738 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:56:13am

re: #660 SanFranciscoZionist

Ever had that charming conversation where a suave, intellectual European starts to tell you about how they understand that Americans get all upset about 'racism', but it's just that the Algerians/Roma/travellers/Pakistanis, whatever really are filthy and taking all the jobs?

I have.

It did not make me dislike whole nations, but it surely disabused me of the notion that any of them are all that clean-handed when it comes to this crap.

It's not a European trait though. You'll find a lot of exactly this kind of racism directed, say, at Palestinians (including some comments at this very blog).

739 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:38:22am

re: #330 marjoriemoon

From that link:

So is it fair to say the shooter had a grudge against the Labor Party's take on immigration? I'm having a hard time deciphering the politics. Or maybe that's a question for oslogin. Or did you guys discuss that already.

Yes, he has written a high number of comments on a website called document.no. They have actually chosen to publish them all in one overview, rather than letting them go down a memory hole. However, I'm having problems getting on the site at the moment, guess they're overloaded. The link is: [Link: www.document.no...]

There he for instance refers to Gro Harlem Brundtland, a former Labour prime minister, as landsmo(r)deren. Landsmoder means "mother of the land", and was sometimes used by the media to describe the very popular prime minister, also ironically (in the nanny state sense). Landsmorder means "killer of the land". He also writes on "cultural marxism", his hate object number one. See Harry's place for a good summary in English: [Link: hurryupharry.org...]

740 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:39:33am

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

One man did that.

It remains possible that there was a second shooter.

741 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:45:28am

re: #639 SanFranciscoZionist

I assumed Muslims were to blame. I guessed wrong. Jesus fucking Christ, did I guess wrong.

I suppose there is no use hoping that Norway has the death penalty?

We don't. And although this would be an obvious death penalty case, I'm happy we don't. The guy is heading for prison indefinitely. Let him have 50-60 years thinking about what he did. Sooner or later, the realisation must come, even to a blackened mind such as his.

742 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:48:36am

re: #658 SanFranciscoZionist

I suspect that he agrees with you.

In fact, I wouldn't be all that surprised to learn that the fucker owns one.

I doubt it. He's one of the fellows who says that "national socialism" was just another kind of socialism, which he hates. I can think of a few bloggers who have run that meme, as well, for instance in the wake of the big Vlaams Belang-discussions.

He's another kind of fascist.

743 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:24:23am

re: #653 SanFranciscoZionist

One man did that.

I can easily imagine that we've mis-counted.

744 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:32:07am

A "counterjihadi" blogger comments on GoV and points out that "it is clear that he was a Counterjihadist and that his opinions were much like any of ours". She (?) posts a link to her own blog where she gives English translations (not very good ones, looks like edited machine translation) for a number of the perps blog comments: [Link: islamversuseurope.blogspot.com...]

One quote: "I ran the business a few years while I studied and earned a few million so I could finance a inntektsløs [having no income, oslogin's note] politically active life. I now use these funds to be able to work full time to further develop / promote the Vienna Academy (Vienna school of thought) that Fjordman, Bat Yeor, Spencer + many others have already contributed so much till. The last three years I worked full time with a cultural conservative works that will help to further develop / promote these political doctrines further".

745 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:36:30am

re: #744 oslogin

Wow. And that woman says:

" I'm sure the bien-pensants in the British left will now want to reflect soberly on the folly of pushing people too far."

746 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:00:38am

re: #744 oslogin

The last comment on that list he talks about starting a Norwegian version of the EDL. Wow, this is all so surreal.

747 Semper Fi  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:23:26am

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

That's where it's odd. The car was bought by the family 4 years ago, then I was given the Title 2 years ago. Family also pays for insurance.

My sister is talking to friends about living with them until college. I don't plan on coming back after this summer. All items I own come with me to college. I will do a one-day stopover during Christmas Break for remaining items, but that's it.

I've had it. Fortunately, no guns here.

In all honesty I don't like to think of your mom alone with him after you and your sis are gone. Calling someone a retard is insulting and if he is not 'physical' with the family I'd defend mom by openly saying she is not and that she is much loved. In my case it must have seemed a challenge to him but I stood on my love for her regardless of his attempts to justify what he said. I think it helped that I never raise my voice and even had a chance to say I'd also take exception to anyone who to talked to him that way. I attitude is: she may be your wife but she's my mom and she's my business. I'll protect her for you and from you.

748 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:51:52am

This whole story turns my stomach. To think the mass murderer was a devotee of Fjordman, who was an occasional poster here back in the 2006-7 time frame. Like a lot of the lizards back then, I hated his racist line of BS and his long winded essays about why Europe needed to round up all the Muslims and ship them out. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
There are a lot of examples in the threads of Fjordman gettting kicked around like he deserved leading him to eventually flounce although it was more like a fish flopping around in a boat than a real flounce. I remember asking Charles to not ban him because it was more fun to kick him around whenever he dropped by.

749 wiffersnapper  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:57:37am

Crazy crazy crazy stuff.

750 yoshicastmaster  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:13:31am

fundamentalism scares the @$%# out of me

751 harry catbox  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:49:44pm

Which fundie is worse?


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