Seeing Captain America tomorrow with the kids.

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

re: #2 jvic

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

Yeah, I almost remarked on that originally. If the dumbass wants to throw money away, let him.

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, I almost remarked on that originally. If the dumbass wants to throw money away, let him.

No ideas, and throwing money away. Yep, it's a Republican in 2011.

Seems I missed a hell of a day while playing Old World Blues.

re: #5 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Seems I missed a hell of a day while playing Old World Blues.

Finished my run thru yesterday. You go good or evil?

re: #2 jvic

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

I think West must feel as if he's in a permanent campaign. His district actually leans slightly Dem, and the publicity of late probably hasn't helped him much outside the tea party. So even though the election isn't for a year and a half, he's in full campaign mode. His overreaction to DWS was thin skinned and repugnant in its language. I'd put her "ladyness" up against his gentlemanliness any day of the week.

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Finished my run thru yesterday. You go good or evil?

Good. The Think Tank and Mobius were so damned hilarious, I couldn't bring myself to kill them.

re: #8 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Good. The Think Tank and Mobius were so damned hilarious, I couldn't bring myself to kill them.

Same. I recruited them to work for me in the end.

So...got any mugs?

Can't Sleep.

Anyone awake?

re: #2 jvic

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

I don't know. One of the reasons I log on to LGF is to get away from it. Then I see him or Palin's smiling face . . . .

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Same. I recruited them to work for me in the end.

So...got any mugs?

What are, you some...kind of...mug hoarder?!

/

Wow, good morning everyone.

I woke up about forty minutes ago, had my coffee, checked out the news sites and LGF and I am blown away: Is it really possible that the shooter was Fjordman himself?

I saw Charles' comment leading back to Pammy's insane and desperate post. If it was Fjordman, or even if he was truly just a huge fan of Geller's and Gates of Vienna, those blogs have a lot to answer for. A lot of mainstream people may not know those blogs, but they have created an atmosphere of utter hatred and insanity in the last few years in circles which appear to take matters into their own violent hands.

They have so much to answer for.

re: #13 Summer

Wow, good morning everyone.

I woke up about forty minutes ago, had my coffee, checked out the news sites and LGF and I am blown away: Is it really possible that the shooter was Fjordman himself?

I saw Charles' comment leading back to Pammy's insane and desperate post. If it was Fjordman, or even if he was truly just a huge fan of Geller's and Gates of Vienna, those blogs have a lot to answer for. A lot of mainstream people may not know those blogs, but they have created an atmosphere of utter hatred and insanity in the last few years in circles which appear to take matters into their own violent hands.

They have so much to answer for.

It should be a big wake-up call for them.

re: #12 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What are, you some...kind of...mug hoarder?!

/

The stealth suit AI gets me every time

"Initiating combat...just kidding"

Internet Cuteness Alert!

How freakin' awful.

"Oslo, Norway (CNN) -- A young man who survived a gunman's two-hour rampage on Norway's Utoya Island that left 80 people dead says he is alive because he played dead, grabbing on to bodies around him.

Adrian Pracon's account provided the clearest detail to date of Friday's shooting attack at the ruling Labour Party's youth camp that police said left at least 80 dead people. The attack came shortly after an explosion killed seven others in Oslo, Norway.

"Me and two others were laying down and survived because of the bodies we could hang on to and pretend that we are dead," Pracon told CNN early Saturday by telephone from his hospital room."

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The stealth suit AI gets me every time

"Initiating combat...just kidding"

"Sneaking done. Fighting now."

Gates of Vienna is now going for 'there might still be an Islamist connection, there was one in Oklahoma City'. (Speculated on, no actual evidence, but hey, knock thyself the fuck out.)

Pam has settled on "But a jihadi group took responsibility! What kind of sick freaks would claim responsibility for this? How strange that their evil is not being discussed more. Isn't that weird? Shouldn't it be, like, the most important part of this story?" She is also very mad about newscasters referring to Mohammed as 'the Prophet Mohammed'.

Both of them are in a pet about Charles 'accusing' Fjordman of being Breivik.

I've never known how to use Free Republic properly, but they seem to be ignoring the whole thing.

Jihad Watch's commenters are fretting that this may be used to distract people from the only fight against evil that counts. Just like Oklahoma City.

I fucking hate people.

re: #18 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Sneaking done. Fighting now."

"Ready, steady, fighty!"

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

This will balance out the bad a little.

"I realized that me sitting there in the boat with my red helmet and yellow jacket would be a perfect target," he recalled. "I thought, well, we are here and we have some things to do and I am happy that we managed to get so many of the youngsters."

This man, Kasper Ilaug, is a hero beyond measure.

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Their "evidence" being the OK city device had a Muslim "signature" to its design.

You know, when people build explosive devices off of stuff they get off the internet, I'm not really surprised if the devices have certain similarities.

re: #22 ProLifeLiberal

This will balance out the bad a little.

This man, Kasper Ilaug, is a hero beyond measure.

Yes. He is.

Thanks.

re: #22 ProLifeLiberal

This will balance out the bad a little.

This man, Kasper Ilaug, is a hero beyond measure.

That needs to be in the Pages . .

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Their "evidence" being the OK city device had a Muslim "signature" to its design.

You know, when people build explosive devices off of stuff they get off the internet, I'm not really surprised if the devices have certain similarities.

So, does this mean if I crack open the Anarchist's Cookbook, my bomb will have a Weather Underground "signature" to it?

re: #25 ggt

I will do it.

re: #26 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, does this mean if I crack open the Anarchist's Cookbook, my bomb will have a Weather Underground "signature" to it?

Bill Ayers is your leader . . .
/

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Both of them are in a pet about Charles 'accusing' Fjordman of being Breivik.

He posted a translation of a blog and labeled it as "unverified."

I've never known how to use Free Republic properly, but they seem to be ignoring the whole thing.

They've got a thread up, it's all pure denial over there, no true Scotsman (Christian) fallacy running rampant.

I"m off to try to sleep again.

He killed 80 on the island??? WTF

re: #21 Winny Spencer

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

I thought you said that wasn't possible?

No, it really couldn't be anything but Islamists.

One of the survivors, a fifteen year old girl, said that when she saw the killer, she was so relieved, because he had a policeman's uniform on, and she thought now she was safe. And then he opened fire again.

Reports say he beckoned people to him, and they came closer because they thought he was a cop.

re: #31 Stanley Sea

He killed 80 on the island??? WTF

Yeah I was away for a few hours and I cannot believe this.

Can someone give me the summary of the previous thread?

Was his pseudoname Fjordman or whatever it was widely read?

re: #33 SanFranciscoZionist

To give an idea how horrifying this is, in all of last year, there was 29 murders in all of Norway.

re: #34 Alexzander

Yeah I was away for a few hours and I cannot believe this.

Can someone give me the summary of the previous thread?

Was his pseudoname Fjordman or whatever it was widely read?

Several sources reported he had posted on right wing, nationalist forums. One sources said he went by the name of Fjordman, but there was no corroborating evidence to that effect.

re: #32 goddamnedfrank

I thought you said that wasn't possible?

Yup, I sure screwed up there.

re: #33 SanFranciscoZionist

One of the survivors, a fifteen year old girl, said that when she saw the killer, she was so relieved, because he had a policeman's uniform on, and she thought now she was safe. And then he opened fire again.

Reports say he beckoned people to him, and they came closer because they thought he was a cop.

Sick fucker. Special place in Hell for guys like him.

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Several sources reported he had posted on right wing, nationalist forums. One sources said he went by the name of Fjordman, but there was no corroborating evidence to that effect.

Thank you. I'm slowly reading the previous thread and its kinda unbelievable. The guy had an account here at LGF? Maybe I'll find out otherwise as I read along.

re: #34 Alexzander

Yeah I was away for a few hours and I cannot believe this.

Can someone give me the summary of the previous thread?

Was his pseudoname Fjordman or whatever it was widely read?

Fjordman is a blogger and former commenter here, and he's not Breivik, unless something really weird is going on. There was a mix-up with a translation of something earlier. The suspect seems to have read his work, but they are not actually the same person.

Breivik, the guy they have in custody, is some kind of farmer, some kind of right wing extremist, and some kind of evil.

Current reports say seven dead in the Oslo blast, and eighty at least on the island with the camp.

Horrible pictures coming out.

re: #37 Winny Spencer

Yup, I sure screwed up there.

It happens, nobody's perfect, but you get bonus points for having the integrity to admit it.

re: #35 ProLifeLiberal

To give an idea how horrifying this is, in all of last year, there was 29 murders in all of Norway.

It's beyond belief.

I work with kids, I was at the wrap-up for the summer school program I taught this summer today.

Two little girls lip-synched to 'Promiscuous Girl' for the talent show.

There was a scavenger hunt.

They ate lunch on the lawn and played soccer.

No one got shot.

If he's made contact with writers for "realisten.se" then he has probably at some point "branched out" from anti-jihad to full blown nazism, much in the same manner as the EDL leadership did recently.

re: #41 goddamnedfrank

It happens, nobody's perfect, but you get bonus points for having the integrity to admit it.

Thank you. This has been a wake up call for me.

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

When did you learn about the attack? Since you were at school with kids.

How does a country so peaceful deal with something like this. They are dealing with and event that killed at least 3 times as many people as were killed in all of last year.

Good night everyone. Hug your loved ones, and pray for a brighter tomorrow.

Because today pretty flat-out sucked.

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Tomorrow won't be better for Norway.

They have to get the bodies of the island. They focused on rescue today.

re: #45 ProLifeLiberal

When did you learn about the attack? Since you were at school with kids.

How does a country so peaceful deal with something like this. They are dealing with and event that killed at least 3 times as many people as were killed in all of last year.

In the morning I was doing paperwork, and I logged on to the news.

I hope the country is able to pull together and help one another. I expect so. Scandinavians are tough, practical souls. But hell...something like this is just going to be hard.

Night all. Yeah, a better tomorrow will be Nice.

re: #13 Summer

Wow, good morning everyone.

I woke up about forty minutes ago, had my coffee, checked out the news sites and LGF and I am blown away: Is it really possible that the shooter was Fjordman himself?

No, it's misinformation.

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

It's worse now.

Death toll to 91.

3rd worst terrorist attack in European History. Only Pan Am 103 and the 2004 Madrid attack are worse.

re: #21 Winny Spencer

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

You think?

re: #51 ProLifeLiberal

Wikipedia just put a question mark for the number of injured. That is the one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen Wikipedia do.

They are basically admitting that keeping track of injured isn't working right now.

re: #14 ggt

It should be a big wake-up call for them.

They do not retreat, they just reload.

re: #53 ProLifeLiberal

The group that was at the island? Had a total national membership of 9,640.

re: #35 ProLifeLiberal

To give an idea how horrifying this is, in all of last year, there was 29 murders in all of Norway.

If these people had been properly armed, this might not have happened!

I think someone else here (I can't find it) pointed out that the number of victims on the island represents the world record for mass murder by a single perpetrator using a firearm.

re: #56 ralphieboy

If these people had been properly armed, this might not have happened!

See!

Liberal gun-grabbers did this to us! ///

re: #57 negativ

And it keeps getting worse: From BBC

PM Jens Stoltenberg says some members of the government died in the Oslo bomb attack

re: #59 ProLifeLiberal

I hope the far-right gets savaged after this.

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

IF (and it's a big if at this point) Anders Breivik I found in Usenet archives is the same guy, he was pretty much obsessed with gun control.

re: #60 Sergey Romanov

The Progress Party, which has inflamed these issues in Norway, has been called an ally in ideology by the 2010 Republicans and the Tea Party.

I can't do anything about the issues in Norway, but I will point this out to people I can here.

re: #60 Sergey Romanov

I hope the far-right gets savaged after this.

What do you mean?

If those damn liberal socialists had simple listened in the first place, they wouldn't have driven that poor man to do what he did?

Or it was a false flag.

Or the Reichstag fire all over again.

I'll have to get back to you on that one.

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

No, it's misinformation.

False positive?

re: #61 Sergey Romanov

How long ago was that? Was it recent?

re: #64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

False positive?

I debunked it pretty much as fast as it appeared: Fjordman was postings updates about the massacre at GoV. I don't know why Charles put it up.

re: #65 ProLifeLiberal

Late 90s.

re: #66 Sergey Romanov

I debunked it pretty much as fast as it appeared: Fjordman was postings updates about the massacre at GoV. I don't know why Charles put it up.

While it may have positives shining some light on Fjordman's deeds, it's more negative really, because first of all it's not F, and more importantly it's a distraction: Pam now shrieks Charles "lies" about Fjordman, even though he simply cited this info and made a very clear disclaimer.

re: #66 Sergey Romanov

I debunked it pretty much as fast as it appeared: Fjordman was postings updates about the massacre at GoV. I don't know why Charles put it up.

A Google Translate of a particular Swedish-language article appeared to explicitly identify the attacker as "fjordman".

re: #67 Sergey Romanov

How old did it say he was then?

There may be more than one of that first and last name running around.

re: #69 negativ

A Google Translate of a particular Swedish-language article appeared to explicitly identify the attacker as "fjordman".

?

re: #70 ProLifeLiberal

How old did it say he was then?

There may be more than one of that first and last name running around.

Sure, oslogin also pointed out it's not uncommon name, which is why I say "big if". We'll know in due time, I guess. The Usenet guy did have guns, apparently lived in Oslo, but I've discovered no trace of racism or things like that (though people change).

re: #71 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.realisten.se...]

Anders Behring Breivik, according to own data, previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman.

Later, it was updated (again, this is Google Translate)

Data in the evening argues that Fjordman during the day writing an article and thus can not be identical with Anders Behring Breivik. Our information is based on Breivik for about a year ago myself claimed to be the blogger Fjordman. Of course, the task to be inaccurate, if not so many writers hid behind the name. The fact that several people tonight gave himself for being Fjordman suggests that it could be the case. If Fjordman feel unduly singled out, he is welcome with a clarification. Breivik, among other things on his Facebook page earlier expressed the same opinions as Fjordman has spread in their texts so we did not see reason to distrust his own statement that he was the man behind the pseudonym.

re: #73 negativ

That's the very item that was debunked immediately. See one of the previous thread.

re: #73 negativ

So, alot of people running around with the nic "Fjordman" results in a rightly confused newspaper.

"realisten.se" is a Swedish neo-nazi website. Has a connection been established between it and Breivik?

re: #75 ProLifeLiberal

It's not a newspaper though.

re: #77 Sergey Romanov

Sorry about that.

Had a stressful day aside from what happened in Norway, and haven't slept yet.

Probably time go to sleep.

re: #78 ProLifeLiberal

Sorry about that.

Had a stressful day aside from what happened in Norway, and haven't slept yet.

Probably time go to sleep.

Don't apologize when it's not necessary, friend :)

Hope your situation resolves.

re: #68 Sergey Romanov

While it may have positives shining some light on Fjordman's deeds, it's more negative really, because first of all it's not F, and more importantly it's a distraction: Pam now shrieks Charles "lies" about Fjordman, even though he simply cited this info and made a very clear disclaimer.

Although...that's on her.

Charles could say the sky was blue and they'd start pointing and crying how unfair he is to them.

re: #80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No semblance of a excuse to shriek should be given, IMHO. Facts and only facts, like the shooter's admiration of Fjordman and Pam.

He argued on a Swedish news website that the media were not critical enough about Islam and claimed that Geert Wilders' Party for Freedom in the Netherlands was the only "true" party of conservatives.

pvaz Yesterday 07:55 PM

Finally some facts that explain this guy a lot better and his right wing motive. If this is all true he should have been targeting muslims not sheeple in his own country.

[Link: www.myfoxphoenix.com...]

From DailyKos:

Why am i not surprised... (2+ / 0-)

that the killer's bigoted writings are not only highly praised but also prominently featured on the neoconservative blog Little Green Footballs (although i think they call themselves neoliberals these days, but hey what's the difference anyway).

Search their website for "Fjordman" if you want to have a look.

by Arza on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 12:02:49 AM PDT

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

From DailyKos:

The post of someone who needs to get out more.

But then, they're from Kos, so cluelessness is the rule.

re: #83 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.myfoxphoenix.com...]

WTF IS WRONG WITH THESE FUCKING PEOPLE?

re: #85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Although some time ago I would have defended DK, I came to more or less the same conclusion after several debacles (e.g. Weiner CTs, Jamie Leigh Jones idiocy etc.). That said, it's another illustration of why things should be cited carefully. Public at large doesn't know about finer historical details (nor should we expect it to).

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

From DailyKos:

I searched and found nothing on this former neoconsevative now neoliberal blog. But then I'm not as smart as a DK poster, so there's that...
/
Morning Honcos.

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good afternoon.

"Who's mommy's little boy? Who's mommy's little boy? Who can count to 34? You can. Yes, you can."
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Norwegian Prime Minister referenced WWII in his latest presscon.

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

Did he mention Quisling?

re: #92 EdDantes

No idea, but I don't see why he would.

re: #93 Sergey Romanov

No idea, but I don't see why he would.

When I think of WWII and Norway I think of Quisling. I was curious about how modern Norwegians think of that era.

Stupid wingnut PJ Tatler at PJM comes up with this genial idea:

HOWEVER, note the odd detail that he was arrested “after shooting vermin.”

[...]

So: Is this just a problem with the translation software, and by “vermin” they mean “victims”? Or could it be that Breivik was just a farmer out shooting at moles or rabbits in the wrong place at the wrong time?

re: #95 Sergey Romanov

Oh wait. It wasn't PJ Tatler, although it's his blog. It's Zombie.

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Oh wait. It wasn't PJ Tatler, although it's his blog. It's Zombie.

Have you checked any of the other nutter blogs?

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, I waded through the swamps. It's what you would expect, although at least they all admit the obvious in the end. But the "frontpagers" aren't nearly as bad as the commentariat.

re: #95 Sergey Romanov

Oslogin explained the name of the island can be mistranslated as 'vermin'.

That's the most pathetic attempt at defending this lunatic yet.

re: #99 Obdicut

Well, when I understood that it is Zombie, that explained everything.

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Utøya is an island, the names is "ut" (out) and "øya" (island). However, utøy is also a noun meaning vermin. In plural that would be utøya.

It's really strange how much the nutso right-wing sites need to try to create a different narrative. They really feel this guy is of them, is from their group. They're not just saying "Well, we never said anything that would even come close to what this guy did." A hell of a lot of guilt slipping out.

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Oh wait. It wasn't PJ Tatler, although it's his blog. It's Zombie.

My time to eat crow? Albeit only a small one. Seems like "PJ Tatler" is just a name of a group blog, not a blogger person per se.

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, I waded through the swamps. It's what you would expect, although at least they all admit the obvious in the end. But the "frontpagers" aren't nearly as bad as the commentariat.

Conspiracy sites are saying the Oslo police conducted a training exercise days before the attack. No credible news sources.

re: #101 Obdicut

Yeah. We all thought it was *probably* Islamists at first (although I will no longer make such an assumption in the future). Our probability estimates diverged somewhat over the course of the events, as was to be expected (with some extreme exceptions, which will not be mentioned because apologies have been made). But we more or less stuck to what little facts we had. But to go out of one's way to construct CTs after the culprit has been identified?

re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar

the Oslo police conducted a training exercise days before the attack.

Little did it help them.

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

There's also little problem in making an assumption like that if that's all you do, if it doesn't link into some larger framework.

In other words, I assumed it was Muslim radicals at first. Did this affect my opinion towards Muslims in general, towards immigration policies, anything of that sort? No.

Over at crazy Pam's and the rest of the place, this immediately slipped into place as a reason to do things, as another reason that what they do is right, that the legislation they push to strip Muslims of rights, that the donations they make to far-right candidates, was justified.

re: #106 Obdicut

One thing this whole thing confirmed one more time is that statements claiming responsibility don't mean shit.

Zombie quoted this from a Google translation of some page:

TO FIGHT AGAINST XENOPHOBIA

- To constantly be suspicion and rejection of a society does something to you, told Dagbladet’s Marte Michelet debate editor of a political workshop at Utøya.

Michelet opened to a packed hall on integration and immigration policy. She used her own laws as an example of how it is to be an asylum seeker to come to a new country. She expressed concern about the increasingly living pure Islamophobia that will dominate the public immigration debate.

- Previously, the majority agreed with the AUF. Majority community must adapt so that minorities feel welcome. Today it is becoming more acceptable to blame the immigrants and argue that any lack of integration is their own fault.
In her introduction she also warned against the blåbrune right parties that have gained considerable influence in European politics.

- After the Berlin Wall’s fall was Islamophobia the dominant form of European racism. The more unacceptable form of general racism, was linked to the Muslims. “They can not integrate. They lack manners. They’ll just exploit our welfare system. They are potential terrorists. ” All of this is found in the online debates in all matters relating to integration and immigration, she said.

Utøya Labour Youth summer camp

Could it be that he targeted not simply left-wingers, but particularly anti-xenophobic activists?

Anyone seen this? [Link: www.auf.no...]

re: #108 Sergey Romanov

Hi Sergey, everyone.

I can't stay this morning, but I thought you might be interested in the link below, which just came across the Twitter wire. There is an embedded 49-page PDF that you can download from Scribd. (Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the blog's owner, Doug Saunders):

The Political Thinking of Anders Behring Breivik

These are the collected writings of Anders Behring Breivik, accused of killing more than 84 young people at a Labour Party gathering in Norway and at least seven in a car bombing in Oslo. These are comments he posted on the right-wing site document.no Thanks to my Norwegian friends for translating this.

[Link: dougsaunders.net...]

Going back to my analog Saturday now...

re: #109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Anything in particular?

re: #110 CuriousLurker

Thanks, CL.

re: #111 Sergey Romanov

Anything in particular?

No, just the camp's site, itself.

Pretty awful day all around really.

Mum is headed for a major emergency surgery about now. Please spare a thought.

"Marxist boot camps", eh.

re: #114 wozzablog

((wozza))

re: #116 Sergey Romanov

thanks x

re: #114 wozzablog

What is it, may I ask?

re: #114 wozzablog

Wishing her the best.

Doug Saunders is a Canadian-British author and journalist. He is the author of the book Arrival City: The Final Migration and Our Next World (2010) and the London-based European bureau chief for The Globe and Mail. He writes a weekly column devoted to the larger themes and intellectual concepts behind international news, and has won the National Newspaper Award, Canada’s counterpart to the Pulitzer Prize, on four occasions.

Crediblesource, I would say.

re: #110 CuriousLurker

Hi Sergey, everyone.

I can't stay this morning, but I thought you might be interested in the link below, which just came across the Twitter wire. There is an embedded 49-page PDF that you can download from Scribd. (Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the blog's owner, Doug Saunders)

Sounds like an actual journalist, at least. [Link: dougsaunders.net...]

The wonderful oslogin gave this link:

[Link: hurryupharry.org...]

Breivik bought 6 tons of fertilizer on May 4, according to BBC.

Morning, all

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

I'm reading through it now. He equates Muslims with Nazis, saying that a moderate Muslim is about the same as a moderate Nazi.

His writing style (I know this is in translation, but still) appears quite sane and intelligent. This isn't someone like Loughner, who you could tell was a nutjob the instant you saw what he wrote.

Just dropping by on a Taipei Taoyuan airport internet station to say my flight to LAX starts boarding in a few minutes.

It's an 11 hour flight, after which I'll have to go across the airport to catch an Alaskan Airlines flight to Seattle. Would've been direct from Taipei to Seattle but that got cancelled a couple weeks before, so the agent rescheduled.

Cheers everyone.

Here are his heroes:

I feel it is important to create a pan-European platform for rhetoric / objectives / policy analysis / research of historical factors relevant to so and transfer this knowledge to every nation. It pan-Europeiske/US environment RobertSpencer , Fjordman, Atlas, Analekta + 50 other EU / U.S. bloggers (and Facebook groups) is the epicenteret for policy analysis and has been for some years.

re: #126 laZardo

May you be seated next to the attractive person of the gender of your choice.

re: #118 Obdicut

What is it, may I ask?

Her massive hernia is impacting on most of her stomach - attempts to manage it have ground to a halt with her hospital admission a couple of days ago.

re: #125 Obdicut

I'm reading through it now. He equates Muslims with Nazis, saying that a moderate Muslim is about the same as a moderate Nazi.

His writing style (I know this is in translation, but still) appears quite sane and intelligent. This isn't someone like Loughner, who you could tell was a nutjob the instant you saw what he wrote.

He even moderates himself enough to blather about ethnocentrism and what not. Basically, he is a usual RW anti-Jihadi blogger, of sorts.

He's also a very well-off man.

re: #129 wozzablog

I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds tricky. I hope that everything goes smoothly for her.

re: #130 Sergey Romanov

He even moderates himself enough to blather about ethnocentrism and what not. Basically, he is a usual RW anti-Jihadi blogger, of sorts.

To quote Kinky Friedman (I) -

if there's one thing I can't abide, it's an ethnocentric racist.

That's the point here. He's not a Stormfront-Heil-Hitler loser type. He's the very essence of a "civilized", "old school", rich Euro/US paleocon Islamo-/Arabophobic blogger.

re: #132 Obdicut

Thanks.

She has the day shift going to work on her while they're still fresh, they managed to avoid doing it on the night shift.

re: #129 wozzablog

Her massive hernia is impacting on most of her stomach - attempts to manage it have ground to a halt with her hospital admission a couple of days ago.

Prayer for your mom. {{{wozzablog}}}

re: #136 CuriousLurker

Thanks hun xxxx

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

He's not farther to the right than Baron Bodissey, or Pamela Geller, or RS McCain.

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, with a strong, strong old-school anti-Marxist element, too.

And he's quite tied into the US scene, too:

F as Lou Dobbs of CNN was hit by the unofficial section and he ultimately chose to go. It isnot unlikely that he was forced out because he changed his ideological standpoint in the courseof his career. He became more and more critical of Muslim mass immigration to the U.S. whichwas not consistent with CNN's politically correct line.

Most Europeans have no clue who Lou Dobbs is.

re: #124 researchok

Morning, all

You can call me All, but only if I can call you Betty..........

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

re: #121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #125 Obdicut

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

Thanks for checking out the credibility. I've got a busy morning and had no time to check, but knew I could count on you guys to do it.

I also won't have time to read the PDF properly until later, but I trust you all will dig out the most interesting stuff. The little bit that I did skim was creepy. The guy sounds coherent, even intelligent but...ice cold.

Back to my chores & stuff now...

re: #141 CuriousLurker

Thanks for heads up, CL. I hope Charles makes a monster post out of this. This is indeed an "I told you so" moment, and rightfully so.

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

That's the point here. He's not a Stormfront-Heil-Hitler loser type. He's the very essence of a "civilized", "old school", rich Euro/US paleocon Islamo-/Arabophobic blogger.

Aforementioned neo-Nazi site "realisten.se" brands Breivik as principally being a "radical Zionist".

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

Thanks for heads up, CL. I hope Charles makes a monster post out of this. This is indeed an "I told you so" moment, and rightfully so.

Page it. If it hasn't already been paged.

re: #143 Winny Spencer

Aforementioned neo-Nazi site "realisten.se" brands Breivik as principally being a "radical Zionist".

He's not a Holocaust denier either, as is clear from his comments. He's even an anti-"National Socialist" (because of the "Socialist" part). I wouldn't bet he's not an antisemite though. Because we know that antisemites can instrumentalize Zionism and pro-Israel sentiment, mostly because they see Israel as a bulwark against Islamism.

re: #144 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll let CL do it.

re: #143 Winny Spencer

Aforementioned neo-Nazi site "realisten.se" brands Breivik as principally being a "radical Zionist".

Well, they're neo-Nazis.

From his writing in general, it appears he's got three main hates:

1. Marxists, who he basically identifies as anyone pushing multiculturalism.

2. Muslims, who he equates with Nazis, as in, there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

3. "Anti-authoritarian", which seems to be the least important to him, but is kind of like US 'libertarians'.

I do not believe his pro-Zionism is anything other than a veil for his hatred of Muslims.

re: #145 Sergey Romanov

He's not a Holocaust denier either, as is clear from his comments. He's even an anti-"National Socialist" (because of the "Socialist" part). I wouldn't bet he's not an antisemite though. Because we know that antisemites can instrumentalize Zionism and pro-Israel sentiment, mostly because they see Israel as a bulwark against Islamism.

Given his intolerance to multiculturalism, I think he approves of Israel in the mistaken idea that it's an attempt at a monocultural society. Pro-zionist is very different than pro-Jewish.

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

I'll let CL do it.

No, please, you go ahead. I don't have time this morning and I don't care about getting credit for it. What's important is that the info is out there—that's why I dropped the link here.

That does it! I'm closing the spy so you guys can't keep dragging me back, heh!

From the BBC website:

Via Twitter:

@blakehounsell says he has been reading an online document which is believed to be attributed to Breivik and he says: "Breivik also praises the English Defence League profusely and calls for setting up a Norwegian version of it."

re: #147 Obdicut

I do not believe his pro-Zionism is anything other than a veil for his hatred of Muslims.

He's been called a fundamentalist Christian on the news wire - can't rule out he's just pro-Israel so Jesus can come back and Armageddon can ensue.

re: #148 Obdicut

Exactly. I once wrote here that very often the nationalistic Right sees Israel exactly as the far left does, it's only the attitude that differs.

re: #149 CuriousLurker

No, please, you go ahead. I don't have time this morning and I don't care about getting credit for it. What's important is that the info is out there—that's why I dropped the link here.

That does it! I'm closing the spy so you guys can't keep dragging me back, heh!

Actually, neither have I :) I would have, but - things to do. Obdi, maybe you?

re: #151 wozzablog

He doesn't strike me as a US-fundie-like in that respect. His ideology is "rational".

This is the go to place for up to the minute news and a complete synopsis of the entire event.

This guy is essentially the embodiment of every sentiment expressed at Gates of Vienna. What pushed him to take such incredibly drastic actions?

re: #155 Zendette

This is the go to place for up to the minute news and a complete synopsis of the entire event.

You mean LGF of did you forget to post a link?

re: #156 Winny Spencer

This guy is essentially the embodiment of every sentiment expressed at Gates of Vienna. What pushed him to take such incredibly drastic actions?

Essentially mimicking the enemy he professed to hate.

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

He doesn't strike me as a US-fundie-like in that respect. His ideology is "rational".

Yes. This is, basically, the guy we all feared was coming, the cold, rational, intelligent, vehement anti-Muslim character who became convinced this really was a war of civilizations.

I think the fact he attacked the leftist party in Norway, rather than attempting to kill Muslims, shows quite a lot, too. His main hatred isn't for Muslims, who are kind of a bogeyman-- I firmly think that despite his 'pro-Zionist' stance, if Jews didn't have Israel and were emigrating to Norway, he wouldn't want them around either-- but towards the 'Marxists' who are 'enabling' the Muslims through multiculturalism.

GoV comment:

War Blogger said...

Excuse me for lacking piety in the face of this attack, but to me this sounds more and more like a false flag operation. All reports I've read and heard speak of one man - Breivik - one man who supposedly was able to load himself up with weapons and kill more than 80 people of good health who had the chance to escape and evade him on rugged terrain.

Kragar called it.

Morning folks

re: #160 Sergey Romanov

They just can't wrap their little heads around the fact that one of them did it.

I can't read the eyewitness stories from the summer camp island anymore, it's making me feel physically ill.

OK, I have an idea for a page, if I can implement it technically.

re: #163 erraticsphinx

Here, read this instead:

Norwegian islander ferries children to safety

BBL.

I just found the most stupidly ironic quote from this asshole. This was in regards to a Russian train bombing.

I do not understand why cnn mention the extreme right and the National Socialists? I havenever ever heard of a right extreme or NS terrorist attacks of importance on European soil. Thissounds like kulturmarxistisk wishful thinking.

re: #167 Obdicut

*nocomment*

re: #147 Obdicut

I do not believe his pro-Zionism is anything other than a veil for his hatred of Muslims.

A lot like antisemitic cranks pretend to love Muslims/Islam but really as fodder in their hatred of Jews, and Israel. Seen both of those. A lot.

re: #164 Sergey Romanov

OK, I have an idea for a page, if I can implement it technically.

I did a basic page. You said you didn't have time.:( Gave props to CL.

re: #170 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, it's great. I don't have time for an analysis, but I do have an idea (which may be a flop).

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

He doesn't strike me as a US-fundie-like in that respect. His ideology is "rational".

Disagree. He sounds like the mirror image of Kevin MacDonald (faculty Cal State Long Beach), Jared Taylor (American Renaissance, "racial realist", probably what those aholes at realisten.se are trying to imitate), and those bigots at Occidental Quarterly/Charles Martel Society. Different brand of US-fundie, stupid cons.

Smart bigots.

re: #21 Winny Spencer

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

Neo-Nazi-connections seem unlikely. This is the other kind of fascist.

re: #172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you disagree just to disagree? :)

The people you're listing are not correctly described as fundies. Pat Robertson or pastor Jones are fundies. Taylor et al. are something else.

re: #174 Sergey Romanov

Hell, I don't even know Taylor's religion.

Question : How does one not kill themselves after murdering so many people? How is this dude still alive?

Hmm, he does cite LGF once.

re: #174 Sergey Romanov

Do you disagree just to disagree? :)

No. :D

The people you're listing are not correctly described as fundies. Pat Robertson or pastor Jones are fundies. Taylor et al. are something else.

Sorry to get all pedantic but "fundie" is probably one of the most misused terms in circulation. For instance, Robertson is not a Fundamentalist, he is an Evangelical. People may not think so, but there are differences, just as there are differences between the Charles Martel and televangelist crowds.

I know you meant Christian Bible-banger types. I meant general conservative Christian-supremacists and xenophobes shrieking about the decline of the west. These traits are shared between Taylor, Robertson, Jones, and the like. 2 sides of the same bigoted coin, but the Occidental Quarterly crowd comes off with more intellectual credibility than the yahoos. That's all I meant.

re: #177 Sergey Romanov

Hmm, he does cite LGF once.

A 5 year old article. I didn't recognize many names in the comments. Could he be one?

re: #178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, we say "Islamic fundies" and that is even farther from some specific Christian Fundamentalism. Fundie is just a scripture-thumper, regardless of religion.

re: #175 Obdicut

Hell, I don't even know Taylor's religion.

He is a member of council of Conservative Citizens.

brb

re: #179 RogueOne

Could easily be, seeing how the old LGF was the opposite of the new one.

re: #181 Cannadian Club Akbar

He is a member of council of Conservative Citizens.

So is Haley Barbour. Probably.

re: #173 oslogin

Neo-Nazi-connections seem unlikely. This is the other kind of fascist.

Yes, that has become apparent.

Today's my 28th Anniversary. Honestly? I think we both thought one of us would be dead by now.

re: #109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Anyone seen this? [Link: www.auf.no...]

Excerpt:
If something happens
Norwegian People Aid will be present at the camp at all times. They can help if someone breaks an arm, gets a blister or something else.

Age
At Utøya there are youth from 13 to 30 years old. The average age is around 16.

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

Well, we say "Islamic fundies" and that is even farther from some specific Christian Fundamentalism. Fundie is just a scripture-thumper, regardless of religion.

The word "Fundamentalist" came out of Christianity, some Protestants self-IDing as "going back to the fundamentals". But you're right, it gets applied to all manner of things, today.

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

The first battle in the war on xmas.

re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Today's my 28th Anniversary. Honestly? I think we both thought one of us would be dead by now.

congrats! The days not over yet.....

okay, my experiment was succesful, page coming up.

re: #190 RogueOne

congrats! The days not over yet...

There's still hope?

re: #156 Winny Spencer

This guy is essentially the embodiment of every sentiment expressed at Gates of Vienna. What pushed him to take such incredibly drastic actions?

Sounds like a logical progression, to me.

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's still hope?

Dead Man Walking.

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's still hope?

She still has 16 hrs to put you in your grave bringing the peace and quiet only death can bring.//

re: #193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sounds like a logical progression, to me.

Yeah, if you seriously believe that Islamification of Europe is occurring and is going to doom everyone, and that leftists are to blame for this, attacking leftists doesn't really seem like that much of a stretch-- except for the whole 'actually murdering people' part, instead of just talking about it.

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

re: #170 Cannadian Club Akbar

I did a basic page. You said you didn't have time.:( Gave props to CL.

Thanks, CC.

re: #196 Obdicut

Yeah, if you seriously believe that Islamification of Europe is occurring and is going to doom everyone, and that leftists are to blame for this, attacking leftists doesn't really seem like that much of a stretch-- except for the whole 'actually murdering people' part, instead of just talking about it.

Yeah, but we have seen exactly this scapegoating rationale to take the last step, before, from bigots of every stripe. The latest crop of strapped up anti-Islam rwnj has the exact same potential, afaic.

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

Yes and yes. I was here for the bombing, but gone for the day myself.

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

It was both. There is a suspect that has been arrested for both things. Rwnj Norwegian found to be posting cultural conservative, nationalist screeds on the internet.

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Watching it on the news now. Holy fuck.

Maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.

Send the fucker to Texas.

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

A right-wing anti-Muslim anti-Marxist evil fucker set off a bomb and used the distraction of that to go to a summer camp for the left-wing ruling party and kill around 80 kids. Thats not a typo.

He is not some raving lunatic, either, but a cold, calculating type who's written extensively and cogently about his anti-Muslim, anti-leftist leanings.

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching it on the news now. Holy fuck.

Maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.

Send the fucker to Texas.

They can review his fitness for release, too, and I think make him serve concurrently.

The Norwegian prime minister gave an excellent speech in the aftermath, before it was known who had done this.

"You cannot bomb us into not being Norway. Our response to violence will be more democracy, more openness, but not more naivete".

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching it on the news now. Holy fuck.

Maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.

Send the fucker to Texas.

91 people dead...they can even send him to Utah afaic.

re: #205 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

91 people dead...they can even send him to Utah afaic.

There is absolutely no way Norway would ever seen a prisoner to anywhere where they might face the death penalty.

Let's let the Norwegians handle this their way, instead of bemoaning their lack of a death penalty.

re: #193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sounds like a logical progression, to me.

re: #196 Obdicut

Yeah, if you seriously believe that Islamification of Europe is occurring and is going to doom everyone, and that leftists are to blame for this, attacking leftists doesn't really seem like that much of a stretch-- except for the whole 'actually murdering people' part, instead of just talking about it.

THIS. It makes more cold, calculating sense (much as I'm loath to say that) to try to stop the people who have opened spigot and allowed Muslims in than it does to attack the Muslims themselves since they will just keep coming.

I hope our government is taking note of that "logical progression". Gawd, what a horrible wake-up call.

OK, here it is:

Mind of a Counter-Jihadi. Visualizing Anders Breivik's ideology.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Do with it what you will, I'm outta here for a while.

re: #173 oslogin

Good morning. Do you not sleep? Admittedly I had trouble doing so after this and your input is appreciated.

I notice that pictures of the people from the island do not appear to be native Norwegians. Is that just a sample coincidence or does it explain why he chose that target.

What was the nature of the camp? So far all I have seen is "summer camp" as a description.

re: #206 Obdicut

Sarcasm, Obdi. Sarcasm.

re: #206 Obdicut

There is absolutely no way Norway would ever seen a prisoner to anywhere where they might face the death penalty.

Let's let the Norwegians handle this their way, instead of bemoaning their lack of a death penalty.

It was just a joke - no one expects Norway to send him anywhere. Besides, I'm about 99.9999% against the death penalty, anyway.

re: #206 Obdicut

He won't walk free and probably would not live long if he did.

re: #211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

What I've seen to date:

He was fans of the Jihad Watch/Gates of Vienna/Atlas Shrugs/Fjordman crowd, a group we've been countering here since 2006.

He was Austrian school for economics, and professed libertarian stances.

Police in Norway characterize him as "Fundamentalist Christian".

He wanted to form up a Norwegian version of the English Defense league.

He farms, has access to fertilizer, and made large fertilizer purchases recently.

He is pro gun & owns a few

He's a xenophobe and anti-marxist EU skeptic

He isn't Fjordman, but is a fan of Fjordman's, citing his Eurabia book as good.

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

There is no way to implement the death penalty only for people we really know are guilty. There's no way to perfect the system. Humans, fallible humans, are involved.

If you think that the death penalty's benefits, whatever they might be, are worth the execution of some people innocent of the crimes they were accused of, then I can deal with that, though I disagree.

But there is no death penalty system that's infallible.

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

This guy will be patting himself on the back for the rest of his life. That's one fucked ideology.

re: #214 Thanos

And he's a murdering asshole.

re: #215 Obdicut

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

Could easily be, seeing how the old LGF was the opposite of the new one.

Which underscores why Charles was wise to back away from all that when he did. People have clearly been thinking about this stuff for years and trying to plan & organize like-minded groups & individuals. Breivik may have thrown a big fat wrench into the works by acting prematurely on his own.

re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That too

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

I'm trying to define where we disagree:

Do you actually think a death penalty system can exist that doesn't result in the execution of people innocent of the crimes they were accused of?

Do you think that the execution of some people who may be innocent is worth it for other benefits that come from having the death penalty?

Workers' Youth League (Norway) - From Wikipedia

AUF was formed in April 1927, following the merger of Left Communist Youth League and Socialist Youth League of Norway. Its ideology is social democracy and democratic socialism. The current leader is Eskil Pedersen. Many former leading figures in AUF have gone on to serve in significant positions in government, such as the incumbent Prime Minister of Norway, Jens Stoltenberg.

2011 Norway attacks

Breivik apparently view himself as a sacrificial lamb, a savior of the mutherland. *Spit*

re: #208 Sergey Romanov

OK, here it is:

Mind of a Counter-Jihadi. Visualizing Anders Breivik's ideology.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Do with it what you will, I'm outta here for a while.

Excellent.

I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but what is really shocking here is the lack of a life sentence as a possibility.

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

I think the death penalty is merciful. Attica is better for those who deserve it, but I fear the Norwegian prisons are too civil and not designed for this kind of being.

re: #224 Winny Spencer

I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but what is really shocking here is the lack of a life sentence as a possibility.

Oslogin has said that it will be. They have "indefinite detention".

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

If they decide to put a needle in him they'll do it in IN. Go Hoosiers!

re: #221 Obdicut

I'm trying to define where we disagree:

Do you actually think a death penalty system can exist that doesn't result in the execution of people innocent of the crimes they were accused of?

Do you think that the execution of some people who may be innocent is worth it for other benefits that come from having the death penalty?

I think with the advent and advances in DNA evidence coupled with video cameras in everyones hand as well as "watching" large swaths of urban areas, the game has changed as opposed to years ago with sketchy witnesses, tainted/coerced testimony

I would use the death penalty today where scientific evidence shows conclusively that the perp did it (as in Fats Fort hood example)

People that were convicted 20 odd years ago where there are still holes in the "evidence", not so much

re: #224 Winny Spencer

I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but what is really shocking here is the lack of a life sentence as a possibility.

What's really shocking is people assuming they understand the Norweigan legal system.

For criminals they consider necessarily dangerous, they use a different sentencing scheme, where the prisoner's sentence is reviewed every five years. So it is, in fact, possible to get life in prison, you just can't get it as one full sentence.

re: #228 sattv4u2

I would use the death penalty today where scientific evidence shows conclusively that the perp did it (as in Fats Fort hood example)

Yeah, because there certainly haven't been any cases of tainted results coming back from the police labs recently.

/

re: #221 Obdicut

Not worth it at all. Though personally? I'd rather be executed than falsely imprisoned for life. But, I am only speaking for myself.

But often, there's no doubt at all. As in the Fort Hood shooter. Ain't no doubt he's the guy. He should die. Now.

Perhaps we could find someone who disagrees with the death penalty 99% of the time; let them be the arbiter.

There are a few folks out there that even most hippies would agree executing.

re: #229 Obdicut

Ok.

I don't know how the prison system works over there, but I wonder if people will be able to give him money to spend at the commissary for candy bars and Cokes and chips. You know the nutters will be throwing him cash a bit at a time. Food and water.

re: #231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But often, there's no doubt at all. As in the Fort Hood shooter. Ain't no doubt he's the guy. He should die. Now.

But that's not a system. How do you codify that "ain't no doubt" into law? The death penalty has to be administered by a legal system. How do you write it so that only those we know absolutely are guilty are put to death? How do you get that knowledge?

re: #207 CuriousLurker

re: #196 Obdicut

THIS. It makes more cold, calculating sense (much as I'm loath to say that) to try to stop the people who have opened spigot and allowed Muslims in than it does to attack the Muslims themselves since they will just keep coming.

I hope our government is taking note of that "logical progression". Gawd, what a horrible wake-up call.

Yeah, it's anti- n-lover/j-lover mentality.

I have no doubt they are up on it, in the Obama Age. Anders is like a Norwegian Kris Kobach, that bigot FAIR lawyer behind that AZ anti-immigrant law.

re: #225 Naso Tang

I think the death penalty is merciful. Attica is better for those who deserve it, but I fear the Norwegian prisons are too civil and not designed for this kind of being.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "civil" prison. When you toss murderers/thieves/rapists together bad things happen.

re: #230 Obdicut

Yeah, because there certainly haven't been any cases of tainted results coming back from the police labs recently.

/

Fort Hood has tainted results?
Someone like Jeffery Dahlmer, the evidence was planted?

re: #236 RogueOne

Norway has rehabilitative prisons that have seen a lot of success.

I doubt this guy will be a candidate for one of those, though. I doubt he'll be able to be in any general population, even in Norway, without being killed himself.

re: #234 Obdicut

But that's not a system. How do you codify that "ain't no doubt" into law? The death penalty has to be administered by a legal system. How do you write it so that only those we know absolutely are guilty are put to death? How do you get that knowledge?

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

re: #237 sattv4u2

Fort Hood has tainted results?
Someone like Jeffery Dahlmer, the evidence was planted?

Are those the only cases that have ever been tried?

You asserted scientific evidence would give us certainty. I pointed out that that evidence is also capable of being tainted, as has been shown recently.

Saying that certain people are guilty is not a counterargument, at all. I have no clue why you think it is.

re: #239 RogueOne

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

But make sure it's sanitized first!
/(sorta)

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

Yep. There is always that 0.00001% that should indeed fry.

re: #239 RogueOne

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

Great. Frame that as a law, and then we can actually use it in our legal system.

re: #231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I disagree with it on principle, but when not on a high moral pedestal would not be adverse to pulling the switch in many cases.

re: #239 RogueOne

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

No. The person is either guilty in the eyes of the law, or not. Beyond the reasonable doubt. There is no provision in the law for differentiating between "people who are 100% guilty" and people who are "probably just 80% guilty". If you don't execute someone because there are doubts in his case, he should not be in prison in the first place.

Pro-DP position either makes no sense or is OK with innocents being killed by the state.

OK, bye for now/

re: #240 Obdicut

Are those the only cases that have ever been tried?

Not at all, but those are two (of many) that there is NO doubt about

Saying that certain people are guilty is not a counterargument, at all. I have no clue why you think it is.

Saying certain people are innocent, therefore those that are 100% guilty should get off (in the examples above) is not a counterargument. I have no clue why you think it is!

re: #243 Obdicut

Great. Frame that as a law, and then we can actually use it in our legal system.

"beyond a doubt" is better than "beyond a reasonable doubt". If all DP cases were held to that standard I could live with it.

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

re: #246 sattv4u2

Saying certain people are innocent, therefore those that are 100% guilty should get off (in the examples above) is not a counterargument. I have no clue why you think it is!

I didn't say that. Why do you need to pretend I did?

re: #248 Obdicut

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

He killed innocents

He's NOT innocent

Poetry in motion!

re: #248 Obdicut

I like poetic justice quite a lot.

"Poetic" somehow sounds nicer than I think you meant it.

re: #228 sattv4u2

I think with the advent and advances in DNA evidence coupled with video cameras in everyones hand as well as "watching" large swaths of urban areas, the game has changed as opposed to years ago with sketchy witnesses, tainted/coerced testimony

Police state for urban areas, while Timothy McVeigh and Anders B sit and seethe in the suburbs.

Excellent.

re: #248 Obdicut

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

Make him write out the Koran on a blackboard. 500,000 times.

re: #247 RogueOne

"beyond a doubt" is better than "beyond a reasonable doubt". If all DP cases were held to that standard I could live with it.

And how would you construct that standard so that it couldn't possibly ever get abused?

We execute people where there's 'reasonable doubt' now.

re: #252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Police state for urban areas, while Timothy McVeigh and Anders B sit and seethe in the suburbs.

Excellent.

I'm stating a fact. Go to most urban areas and look up at a telephone pole, an entrance to a building, an ATM machine

We See You!!

re: #251 Naso Tang

"Poetic" somehow sounds nicer than I think you meant it.

IMO, an eye for an eye is poetic justice. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to live under a system like that though.

re: #248 Obdicut

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

Letting him stay miserable, wishing for death and denying him into perpetuity suits me just fine, too.