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1 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:19:14pm

Seeing Captain America tomorrow with the kids.

2 jvic  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:47:07pm

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

3 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:49:35pm

re: #2 jvic

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

Yeah, I almost remarked on that originally. If the dumbass wants to throw money away, let him.

4 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 10:54:38pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yeah, I almost remarked on that originally. If the dumbass wants to throw money away, let him.

No ideas, and throwing money away. Yep, it's a Republican in 2011.

5 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:00:30pm

Seems I missed a hell of a day while playing Old World Blues.

6 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:03:08pm

re: #5 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Seems I missed a hell of a day while playing Old World Blues.

Finished my run thru yesterday. You go good or evil?

7 palomino  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:08:36pm

re: #2 jvic

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

I think West must feel as if he's in a permanent campaign. His district actually leans slightly Dem, and the publicity of late probably hasn't helped him much outside the tea party. So even though the election isn't for a year and a half, he's in full campaign mode. His overreaction to DWS was thin skinned and repugnant in its language. I'd put her "ladyness" up against his gentlemanliness any day of the week.

8 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:13:56pm

re: #6 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Finished my run thru yesterday. You go good or evil?

Good. The Think Tank and Mobius were so damned hilarious, I couldn't bring myself to kill them.

9 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:19:15pm

re: #8 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Good. The Think Tank and Mobius were so damned hilarious, I couldn't bring myself to kill them.

Same. I recruited them to work for me in the end.

So...got any mugs?

10 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:30:45pm

Can't Sleep.

Anyone awake?

11 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:32:46pm

re: #2 jvic

Again an ad for Allen West.

I've been meaning to inform the West campaign that Google Ads is wasting their money at LGF, but after West's email to Wasserman Schultz I won't bother.

I don't know. One of the reasons I log on to LGF is to get away from it. Then I see him or Palin's smiling face . . . .

12 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:40:49pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Same. I recruited them to work for me in the end.

So...got any mugs?

What are, you some...kind of...mug hoarder?!

/

13 Summer Seale  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:43:10pm

Wow, good morning everyone.

I woke up about forty minutes ago, had my coffee, checked out the news sites and LGF and I am blown away: Is it really possible that the shooter was Fjordman himself?

I saw Charles' comment leading back to Pammy's insane and desperate post. If it was Fjordman, or even if he was truly just a huge fan of Geller's and Gates of Vienna, those blogs have a lot to answer for. A lot of mainstream people may not know those blogs, but they have created an atmosphere of utter hatred and insanity in the last few years in circles which appear to take matters into their own violent hands.

They have so much to answer for.

14 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:45:20pm

re: #13 Summer

Wow, good morning everyone.

I woke up about forty minutes ago, had my coffee, checked out the news sites and LGF and I am blown away: Is it really possible that the shooter was Fjordman himself?

I saw Charles' comment leading back to Pammy's insane and desperate post. If it was Fjordman, or even if he was truly just a huge fan of Geller's and Gates of Vienna, those blogs have a lot to answer for. A lot of mainstream people may not know those blogs, but they have created an atmosphere of utter hatred and insanity in the last few years in circles which appear to take matters into their own violent hands.

They have so much to answer for.

It should be a big wake-up call for them.

15 Kragar  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:46:17pm

re: #12 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What are, you some...kind of...mug hoarder?!

/

The stealth suit AI gets me every time

"Initiating combat...just kidding"

16 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:48:31pm
17 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:53:10pm

How freakin' awful.

"Oslo, Norway (CNN) -- A young man who survived a gunman's two-hour rampage on Norway's Utoya Island that left 80 people dead says he is alive because he played dead, grabbing on to bodies around him.

Adrian Pracon's account provided the clearest detail to date of Friday's shooting attack at the ruling Labour Party's youth camp that police said left at least 80 dead people. The attack came shortly after an explosion killed seven others in Oslo, Norway.

"Me and two others were laying down and survived because of the bodies we could hang on to and pretend that we are dead," Pracon told CNN early Saturday by telephone from his hospital room."

18 Targetpractice  Fri, Jul 22, 2011 11:54:57pm

re: #15 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The stealth suit AI gets me every time

"Initiating combat...just kidding"

"Sneaking done. Fighting now."

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:00:25am

Gates of Vienna is now going for 'there might still be an Islamist connection, there was one in Oklahoma City'. (Speculated on, no actual evidence, but hey, knock thyself the fuck out.)

Pam has settled on "But a jihadi group took responsibility! What kind of sick freaks would claim responsibility for this? How strange that their evil is not being discussed more. Isn't that weird? Shouldn't it be, like, the most important part of this story?" She is also very mad about newscasters referring to Mohammed as 'the Prophet Mohammed'.

Both of them are in a pet about Charles 'accusing' Fjordman of being Breivik.

I've never known how to use Free Republic properly, but they seem to be ignoring the whole thing.

Jihad Watch's commenters are fretting that this may be used to distract people from the only fight against evil that counts. Just like Oklahoma City.

I fucking hate people.

20 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:02:54am

re: #18 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"Sneaking done. Fighting now."

"Ready, steady, fighty!"

21 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:04:05am

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

22 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:04:09am

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

This will balance out the bad a little.

"I realized that me sitting there in the boat with my red helmet and yellow jacket would be a perfect target," he recalled. "I thought, well, we are here and we have some things to do and I am happy that we managed to get so many of the youngsters."

This man, Kasper Ilaug, is a hero beyond measure.

23 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:04:50am

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Their "evidence" being the OK city device had a Muslim "signature" to its design.

You know, when people build explosive devices off of stuff they get off the internet, I'm not really surprised if the devices have certain similarities.

24 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:05:31am

re: #22 ProLifeLiberal

This will balance out the bad a little.

This man, Kasper Ilaug, is a hero beyond measure.

Yes. He is.

Thanks.

25 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:05:53am

re: #22 ProLifeLiberal

This will balance out the bad a little.

This man, Kasper Ilaug, is a hero beyond measure.

That needs to be in the Pages . .

26 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:05:58am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Their "evidence" being the OK city device had a Muslim "signature" to its design.

You know, when people build explosive devices off of stuff they get off the internet, I'm not really surprised if the devices have certain similarities.

So, does this mean if I crack open the Anarchist's Cookbook, my bomb will have a Weather Underground "signature" to it?

27 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:06:36am

re: #25 ggt

I will do it.

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:07:18am

re: #26 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, does this mean if I crack open the Anarchist's Cookbook, my bomb will have a Weather Underground "signature" to it?

Bill Ayers is your leader . . .
/

29 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:07:38am

re: #19 SanFranciscoZionist

Both of them are in a pet about Charles 'accusing' Fjordman of being Breivik.

He posted a translation of a blog and labeled it as "unverified."

I've never known how to use Free Republic properly, but they seem to be ignoring the whole thing.

They've got a thread up, it's all pure denial over there, no true Scotsman (Christian) fallacy running rampant.

30 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:13:01am

I"m off to try to sleep again.

31 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:13:30am

He killed 80 on the island??? WTF

32 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:14:54am

re: #21 Winny Spencer

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

I thought you said that wasn't possible?

No, it really couldn't be anything but Islamists.

33 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:15:03am

One of the survivors, a fifteen year old girl, said that when she saw the killer, she was so relieved, because he had a policeman's uniform on, and she thought now she was safe. And then he opened fire again.

Reports say he beckoned people to him, and they came closer because they thought he was a cop.

34 Alexzander  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:16:16am

re: #31 Stanley Sea

He killed 80 on the island??? WTF

Yeah I was away for a few hours and I cannot believe this.

Can someone give me the summary of the previous thread?

Was his pseudoname Fjordman or whatever it was widely read?

35 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:19:15am

re: #33 SanFranciscoZionist

To give an idea how horrifying this is, in all of last year, there was 29 murders in all of Norway.

36 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:19:26am

re: #34 Alexzander

Yeah I was away for a few hours and I cannot believe this.

Can someone give me the summary of the previous thread?

Was his pseudoname Fjordman or whatever it was widely read?

Several sources reported he had posted on right wing, nationalist forums. One sources said he went by the name of Fjordman, but there was no corroborating evidence to that effect.

37 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:19:46am

re: #32 goddamnedfrank

I thought you said that wasn't possible?

Yup, I sure screwed up there.

38 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:20:25am

re: #33 SanFranciscoZionist

One of the survivors, a fifteen year old girl, said that when she saw the killer, she was so relieved, because he had a policeman's uniform on, and she thought now she was safe. And then he opened fire again.

Reports say he beckoned people to him, and they came closer because they thought he was a cop.

Sick fucker. Special place in Hell for guys like him.

39 Alexzander  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:21:41am

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Several sources reported he had posted on right wing, nationalist forums. One sources said he went by the name of Fjordman, but there was no corroborating evidence to that effect.

Thank you. I'm slowly reading the previous thread and its kinda unbelievable. The guy had an account here at LGF? Maybe I'll find out otherwise as I read along.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:22:02am

re: #34 Alexzander

Yeah I was away for a few hours and I cannot believe this.

Can someone give me the summary of the previous thread?

Was his pseudoname Fjordman or whatever it was widely read?

Fjordman is a blogger and former commenter here, and he's not Breivik, unless something really weird is going on. There was a mix-up with a translation of something earlier. The suspect seems to have read his work, but they are not actually the same person.

Breivik, the guy they have in custody, is some kind of farmer, some kind of right wing extremist, and some kind of evil.

Current reports say seven dead in the Oslo blast, and eighty at least on the island with the camp.

Horrible pictures coming out.

41 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:23:00am

re: #37 Winny Spencer

Yup, I sure screwed up there.

It happens, nobody's perfect, but you get bonus points for having the integrity to admit it.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:23:52am

re: #35 ProLifeLiberal

To give an idea how horrifying this is, in all of last year, there was 29 murders in all of Norway.

It's beyond belief.

I work with kids, I was at the wrap-up for the summer school program I taught this summer today.

Two little girls lip-synched to 'Promiscuous Girl' for the talent show.

There was a scavenger hunt.

They ate lunch on the lawn and played soccer.

No one got shot.

43 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:24:02am

If he's made contact with writers for "realisten.se" then he has probably at some point "branched out" from anti-jihad to full blown nazism, much in the same manner as the EDL leadership did recently.

44 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:25:35am

re: #41 goddamnedfrank

It happens, nobody's perfect, but you get bonus points for having the integrity to admit it.

Thank you. This has been a wake up call for me.

45 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:28:31am

re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist

When did you learn about the attack? Since you were at school with kids.

How does a country so peaceful deal with something like this. They are dealing with and event that killed at least 3 times as many people as were killed in all of last year.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:28:45am

Good night everyone. Hug your loved ones, and pray for a brighter tomorrow.

Because today pretty flat-out sucked.

47 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:29:42am

re: #46 SanFranciscoZionist

Tomorrow won't be better for Norway.

They have to get the bodies of the island. They focused on rescue today.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:31:00am

re: #45 ProLifeLiberal

When did you learn about the attack? Since you were at school with kids.

How does a country so peaceful deal with something like this. They are dealing with and event that killed at least 3 times as many people as were killed in all of last year.

In the morning I was doing paperwork, and I logged on to the news.

I hope the country is able to pull together and help one another. I expect so. Scandinavians are tough, practical souls. But hell...something like this is just going to be hard.

49 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:32:28am

Night all. Yeah, a better tomorrow will be Nice.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:32:28am

re: #13 Summer

Wow, good morning everyone.

I woke up about forty minutes ago, had my coffee, checked out the news sites and LGF and I am blown away: Is it really possible that the shooter was Fjordman himself?

No, it's misinformation.

51 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:33:29am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

It's worse now.

Death toll to 91.

3rd worst terrorist attack in European History. Only Pan Am 103 and the 2004 Madrid attack are worse.

52 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:36:16am

re: #21 Winny Spencer

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

You think?

53 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:44:06am

re: #51 ProLifeLiberal

Wikipedia just put a question mark for the number of injured. That is the one of the most disturbing things I have ever seen Wikipedia do.

They are basically admitting that keeping track of injured isn't working right now.

54 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:46:17am

re: #14 ggt

It should be a big wake-up call for them.

They do not retreat, they just reload.

55 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:47:44am

re: #53 ProLifeLiberal

The group that was at the island? Had a total national membership of 9,640.

56 AK-47%  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:48:20am

re: #35 ProLifeLiberal

To give an idea how horrifying this is, in all of last year, there was 29 murders in all of Norway.


If these people had been properly armed, this might not have happened!

57 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:48:52am

I think someone else here (I can't find it) pointed out that the number of victims on the island represents the world record for mass murder by a single perpetrator using a firearm.

58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:56:51am

re: #56 ralphieboy

If these people had been properly armed, this might not have happened!

See!

Liberal gun-grabbers did this to us! ///

59 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:57:40am

re: #57 negativ

And it keeps getting worse: From BBC

PM Jens Stoltenberg says some members of the government died in the Oslo bomb attack

60 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:58:38am

re: #59 ProLifeLiberal

I hope the far-right gets savaged after this.

61 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 12:59:55am

re: #58 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

IF (and it's a big if at this point) Anders Breivik I found in Usenet archives is the same guy, he was pretty much obsessed with gun control.

62 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:00:28am

re: #60 Sergey Romanov

The Progress Party, which has inflamed these issues in Norway, has been called an ally in ideology by the 2010 Republicans and the Tea Party.

I can't do anything about the issues in Norway, but I will point this out to people I can here.

63 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:02:06am

re: #60 Sergey Romanov

I hope the far-right gets savaged after this.

What do you mean?

If those damn liberal socialists had simple listened in the first place, they wouldn't have driven that poor man to do what he did?

Or it was a false flag.

Or the Reichstag fire all over again.

I'll have to get back to you on that one.

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:02:27am

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

No, it's misinformation.

False positive?

65 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:02:52am

re: #61 Sergey Romanov

How long ago was that? Was it recent?

66 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:04:21am

re: #64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

False positive?

I debunked it pretty much as fast as it appeared: Fjordman was postings updates about the massacre at GoV. I don't know why Charles put it up.

67 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:05:07am

re: #65 ProLifeLiberal

Late 90s.

68 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:08:44am

re: #66 Sergey Romanov

I debunked it pretty much as fast as it appeared: Fjordman was postings updates about the massacre at GoV. I don't know why Charles put it up.

While it may have positives shining some light on Fjordman's deeds, it's more negative really, because first of all it's not F, and more importantly it's a distraction: Pam now shrieks Charles "lies" about Fjordman, even though he simply cited this info and made a very clear disclaimer.

69 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:08:58am

re: #66 Sergey Romanov

I debunked it pretty much as fast as it appeared: Fjordman was postings updates about the massacre at GoV. I don't know why Charles put it up.

A Google Translate of a particular Swedish-language article appeared to explicitly identify the attacker as "fjordman".

70 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:09:19am

re: #67 Sergey Romanov

How old did it say he was then?

There may be more than one of that first and last name running around.

71 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:10:12am

re: #69 negativ

A Google Translate of a particular Swedish-language article appeared to explicitly identify the attacker as "fjordman".

?

72 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:11:44am

re: #70 ProLifeLiberal

How old did it say he was then?

There may be more than one of that first and last name running around.

Sure, oslogin also pointed out it's not uncommon name, which is why I say "big if". We'll know in due time, I guess. The Usenet guy did have guns, apparently lived in Oslo, but I've discovered no trace of racism or things like that (though people change).

73 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:12:20am

re: #71 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.realisten.se...]

Anders Behring Breivik, according to own data, previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman.

Later, it was updated (again, this is Google Translate)

Data in the evening argues that Fjordman during the day writing an article and thus can not be identical with Anders Behring Breivik. Our information is based on Breivik for about a year ago myself claimed to be the blogger Fjordman. Of course, the task to be inaccurate, if not so many writers hid behind the name. The fact that several people tonight gave himself for being Fjordman suggests that it could be the case. If Fjordman feel unduly singled out, he is welcome with a clarification. Breivik, among other things on his Facebook page earlier expressed the same opinions as Fjordman has spread in their texts so we did not see reason to distrust his own statement that he was the man behind the pseudonym.

74 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:13:02am

re: #73 negativ

That's the very item that was debunked immediately. See one of the previous thread.

75 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:14:58am

re: #73 negativ

So, alot of people running around with the nic "Fjordman" results in a rightly confused newspaper.

76 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:15:14am

"realisten.se" is a Swedish neo-nazi website. Has a connection been established between it and Breivik?

77 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:15:54am

re: #75 ProLifeLiberal

It's not a newspaper though.

78 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:17:06am

re: #77 Sergey Romanov

Sorry about that.

Had a stressful day aside from what happened in Norway, and haven't slept yet.

Probably time go to sleep.

79 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:18:16am

re: #78 ProLifeLiberal

Sorry about that.

Had a stressful day aside from what happened in Norway, and haven't slept yet.

Probably time go to sleep.

Don't apologize when it's not necessary, friend :)

Hope your situation resolves.

80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:36:24am

re: #68 Sergey Romanov

While it may have positives shining some light on Fjordman's deeds, it's more negative really, because first of all it's not F, and more importantly it's a distraction: Pam now shrieks Charles "lies" about Fjordman, even though he simply cited this info and made a very clear disclaimer.

Although...that's on her.

Charles could say the sky was blue and they'd start pointing and crying how unfair he is to them.

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:40:42am

re: #80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No semblance of a excuse to shriek should be given, IMHO. Facts and only facts, like the shooter's admiration of Fjordman and Pam.

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:56:14am
He argued on a Swedish news website that the media were not critical enough about Islam and claimed that Geert Wilders' Party for Freedom in the Netherlands was the only "true" party of conservatives.
83 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 1:56:57am
pvaz Yesterday 07:55 PM

Finally some facts that explain this guy a lot better and his right wing motive. If this is all true he should have been targeting muslims not sheeple in his own country.


[Link: www.myfoxphoenix.com...]

84 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:02:15am

From DailyKos:

Why am i not surprised... (2+ / 0-)

that the killer's bigoted writings are not only highly praised but also prominently featured on the neoconservative blog Little Green Footballs (although i think they call themselves neoliberals these days, but hey what's the difference anyway).

Search their website for "Fjordman" if you want to have a look.


by Arza on Sat Jul 23, 2011 at 12:02:49 AM PDT

85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:08:07am

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

From DailyKos:

The post of someone who needs to get out more.

But then, they're from Kos, so cluelessness is the rule.

86 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:13:28am

re: #83 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.myfoxphoenix.com...]

WTF IS WRONG WITH THESE FUCKING PEOPLE?

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:13:34am

re: #85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Although some time ago I would have defended DK, I came to more or less the same conclusion after several debacles (e.g. Weiner CTs, Jamie Leigh Jones idiocy etc.). That said, it's another illustration of why things should be cited carefully. Public at large doesn't know about finer historical details (nor should we expect it to).

88 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:21:55am

re: #84 Sergey Romanov

From DailyKos:

I searched and found nothing on this former neoconsevative now neoliberal blog. But then I'm not as smart as a DK poster, so there's that...
/
Morning Honcos.

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:23:09am

re: #88 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good afternoon.

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:31:26am

"Who's mommy's little boy? Who's mommy's little boy? Who can count to 34? You can. Yes, you can."
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:32:28am

Norwegian Prime Minister referenced WWII in his latest presscon.

92 EdDantes  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:34:30am

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

Did he mention Quisling?

93 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:37:05am

re: #92 EdDantes

No idea, but I don't see why he would.

94 EdDantes  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:41:17am

re: #93 Sergey Romanov

No idea, but I don't see why he would.

When I think of WWII and Norway I think of Quisling. I was curious about how modern Norwegians think of that era.

95 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:51:31am

Stupid wingnut PJ Tatler at PJM comes up with this genial idea:

HOWEVER, note the odd detail that he was arrested “after shooting vermin.”

[...]

So: Is this just a problem with the translation software, and by “vermin” they mean “victims”? Or could it be that Breivik was just a farmer out shooting at moles or rabbits in the wrong place at the wrong time?

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 2:52:50am

re: #95 Sergey Romanov

Oh wait. It wasn't PJ Tatler, although it's his blog. It's Zombie.

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:00:53am

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Oh wait. It wasn't PJ Tatler, although it's his blog. It's Zombie.

Have you checked any of the other nutter blogs?

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:02:48am

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, I waded through the swamps. It's what you would expect, although at least they all admit the obvious in the end. But the "frontpagers" aren't nearly as bad as the commentariat.

99 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:03:00am

re: #95 Sergey Romanov

Oslogin explained the name of the island can be mistranslated as 'vermin'.

That's the most pathetic attempt at defending this lunatic yet.

100 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:03:56am

re: #99 Obdicut

Well, when I understood that it is Zombie, that explained everything.

101 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:05:04am

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]


Utøya is an island, the names is "ut" (out) and "øya" (island). However, utøy is also a noun meaning vermin. In plural that would be utøya.

It's really strange how much the nutso right-wing sites need to try to create a different narrative. They really feel this guy is of them, is from their group. They're not just saying "Well, we never said anything that would even come close to what this guy did." A hell of a lot of guilt slipping out.

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:05:40am

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

Oh wait. It wasn't PJ Tatler, although it's his blog. It's Zombie.

My time to eat crow? Albeit only a small one. Seems like "PJ Tatler" is just a name of a group blog, not a blogger person per se.

103 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:07:03am

re: #98 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, I waded through the swamps. It's what you would expect, although at least they all admit the obvious in the end. But the "frontpagers" aren't nearly as bad as the commentariat.

Conspiracy sites are saying the Oslo police conducted a training exercise days before the attack. No credible news sources.

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:10:49am

re: #101 Obdicut

Yeah. We all thought it was *probably* Islamists at first (although I will no longer make such an assumption in the future). Our probability estimates diverged somewhat over the course of the events, as was to be expected (with some extreme exceptions, which will not be mentioned because apologies have been made). But we more or less stuck to what little facts we had. But to go out of one's way to construct CTs after the culprit has been identified?

105 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:11:47am

re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar

the Oslo police conducted a training exercise days before the attack.

Little did it help them.

106 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:14:07am

re: #104 Sergey Romanov

There's also little problem in making an assumption like that if that's all you do, if it doesn't link into some larger framework.

In other words, I assumed it was Muslim radicals at first. Did this affect my opinion towards Muslims in general, towards immigration policies, anything of that sort? No.

Over at crazy Pam's and the rest of the place, this immediately slipped into place as a reason to do things, as another reason that what they do is right, that the legislation they push to strip Muslims of rights, that the donations they make to far-right candidates, was justified.

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:16:51am

re: #106 Obdicut

One thing this whole thing confirmed one more time is that statements claiming responsibility don't mean shit.

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:22:09am

Zombie quoted this from a Google translation of some page:

TO FIGHT AGAINST XENOPHOBIA

- To constantly be suspicion and rejection of a society does something to you, told Dagbladet’s Marte Michelet debate editor of a political workshop at Utøya.

Michelet opened to a packed hall on integration and immigration policy. She used her own laws as an example of how it is to be an asylum seeker to come to a new country. She expressed concern about the increasingly living pure Islamophobia that will dominate the public immigration debate.

- Previously, the majority agreed with the AUF. Majority community must adapt so that minorities feel welcome. Today it is becoming more acceptable to blame the immigrants and argue that any lack of integration is their own fault.
In her introduction she also warned against the blåbrune right parties that have gained considerable influence in European politics.

- After the Berlin Wall’s fall was Islamophobia the dominant form of European racism. The more unacceptable form of general racism, was linked to the Muslims. “They can not integrate. They lack manners. They’ll just exploit our welfare system. They are potential terrorists. ” All of this is found in the online debates in all matters relating to integration and immigration, she said.

Utøya Labour Youth summer camp

Could it be that he targeted not simply left-wingers, but particularly anti-xenophobic activists?

109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:30:14am

Anyone seen this? [Link: www.auf.no...]

110 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:32:25am

re: #108 Sergey Romanov

Hi Sergey, everyone.

I can't stay this morning, but I thought you might be interested in the link below, which just came across the Twitter wire. There is an embedded 49-page PDF that you can download from Scribd. (Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the blog's owner, Doug Saunders):

The Political Thinking of Anders Behring Breivik

These are the collected writings of Anders Behring Breivik, accused of killing more than 84 young people at a Labour Party gathering in Norway and at least seven in a car bombing in Oslo. These are comments he posted on the right-wing site document.no Thanks to my Norwegian friends for translating this.

[Link: dougsaunders.net...]

Going back to my analog Saturday now...

111 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:33:41am

re: #109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Anything in particular?

112 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:33:56am

re: #110 CuriousLurker

Thanks, CL.

113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:34:17am

re: #111 Sergey Romanov

Anything in particular?

No, just the camp's site, itself.

114 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:35:30am

Pretty awful day all around really.

Mum is headed for a major emergency surgery about now. Please spare a thought.

115 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:35:34am

"Marxist boot camps", eh.

116 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:36:29am

re: #114 wozzablog

((wozza))

117 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:37:38am

re: #116 Sergey Romanov

thanks x

118 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:38:00am

re: #114 wozzablog

What is it, may I ask?

119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:38:03am

re: #114 wozzablog

Wishing her the best.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:38:18am
Doug Saunders is a Canadian-British author and journalist. He is the author of the book Arrival City: The Final Migration and Our Next World (2010) and the London-based European bureau chief for The Globe and Mail. He writes a weekly column devoted to the larger themes and intellectual concepts behind international news, and has won the National Newspaper Award, Canada’s counterpart to the Pulitzer Prize, on four occasions.

Crediblesource, I would say.

121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:39:06am

re: #110 CuriousLurker

Hi Sergey, everyone.

I can't stay this morning, but I thought you might be interested in the link below, which just came across the Twitter wire. There is an embedded 49-page PDF that you can download from Scribd. (Disclaimer: I don't know anything about the blog's owner, Doug Saunders)

Sounds like an actual journalist, at least. [Link: dougsaunders.net...]

122 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:40:10am

The wonderful oslogin gave this link:

[Link: hurryupharry.org...]

123 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:40:40am

Breivik bought 6 tons of fertilizer on May 4, according to BBC.

124 researchok  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:41:26am

Morning, all

125 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:42:33am

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

I'm reading through it now. He equates Muslims with Nazis, saying that a moderate Muslim is about the same as a moderate Nazi.

His writing style (I know this is in translation, but still) appears quite sane and intelligent. This isn't someone like Loughner, who you could tell was a nutjob the instant you saw what he wrote.

126 laZardo  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:43:27am

Just dropping by on a Taipei Taoyuan airport internet station to say my flight to LAX starts boarding in a few minutes.

It's an 11 hour flight, after which I'll have to go across the airport to catch an Alaskan Airlines flight to Seattle. Would've been direct from Taipei to Seattle but that got cancelled a couple weeks before, so the agent rescheduled.

Cheers everyone.

127 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:44:38am

Here are his heroes:

I feel it is important to create a pan-European platform for rhetoric / objectives / policy analysis / research of historical factors relevant to so and transfer this knowledge to every nation. It pan-Europeiske/US environment RobertSpencer , Fjordman, Atlas, Analekta + 50 other EU / U.S. bloggers (and Facebook groups) is the epicenteret for policy analysis and has been for some years.
128 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:44:51am

re: #126 laZardo

May you be seated next to the attractive person of the gender of your choice.

129 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:45:41am

re: #118 Obdicut

What is it, may I ask?

Her massive hernia is impacting on most of her stomach - attempts to manage it have ground to a halt with her hospital admission a couple of days ago.

130 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:45:49am

re: #125 Obdicut

I'm reading through it now. He equates Muslims with Nazis, saying that a moderate Muslim is about the same as a moderate Nazi.

His writing style (I know this is in translation, but still) appears quite sane and intelligent. This isn't someone like Loughner, who you could tell was a nutjob the instant you saw what he wrote.

He even moderates himself enough to blather about ethnocentrism and what not. Basically, he is a usual RW anti-Jihadi blogger, of sorts.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:48:06am

He's also a very well-off man.

132 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:50:46am

re: #129 wozzablog

I'm sorry to hear that. It sounds tricky. I hope that everything goes smoothly for her.

133 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:52:55am

re: #130 Sergey Romanov

He even moderates himself enough to blather about ethnocentrism and what not. Basically, he is a usual RW anti-Jihadi blogger, of sorts.

To quote Kinky Friedman (I) -

if there's one thing I can't abide, it's an ethnocentric racist.
134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:52:56am

That's the point here. He's not a Stormfront-Heil-Hitler loser type. He's the very essence of a "civilized", "old school", rich Euro/US paleocon Islamo-/Arabophobic blogger.

135 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:53:48am

re: #132 Obdicut

Thanks.

She has the day shift going to work on her while they're still fresh, they managed to avoid doing it on the night shift.

136 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:57:16am

re: #129 wozzablog

Her massive hernia is impacting on most of her stomach - attempts to manage it have ground to a halt with her hospital admission a couple of days ago.

Prayer for your mom. {{{wozzablog}}}

137 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:57:41am

re: #136 CuriousLurker

Thanks hun xxxx

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:58:06am

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

He's not farther to the right than Baron Bodissey, or Pamela Geller, or RS McCain.

139 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:58:10am

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, with a strong, strong old-school anti-Marxist element, too.

And he's quite tied into the US scene, too:

F as Lou Dobbs of CNN was hit by the unofficial section and he ultimately chose to go. It isnot unlikely that he was forced out because he changed his ideological standpoint in the courseof his career. He became more and more critical of Muslim mass immigration to the U.S. whichwas not consistent with CNN's politically correct line.

Most Europeans have no clue who Lou Dobbs is.

140 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:58:32am

re: #124 researchok

Morning, all

You can call me All, but only if I can call you Betty..........

141 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 3:59:03am

re: #120 Sergey Romanov

re: #121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #125 Obdicut

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

Thanks for checking out the credibility. I've got a busy morning and had no time to check, but knew I could count on you guys to do it.

I also won't have time to read the PDF properly until later, but I trust you all will dig out the most interesting stuff. The little bit that I did skim was creepy. The guy sounds coherent, even intelligent but...ice cold.

Back to my chores & stuff now...

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:00:28am

re: #141 CuriousLurker

Thanks for heads up, CL. I hope Charles makes a monster post out of this. This is indeed an "I told you so" moment, and rightfully so.

143 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:02:38am

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

That's the point here. He's not a Stormfront-Heil-Hitler loser type. He's the very essence of a "civilized", "old school", rich Euro/US paleocon Islamo-/Arabophobic blogger.

Aforementioned neo-Nazi site "realisten.se" brands Breivik as principally being a "radical Zionist".

144 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:02:39am

re: #142 Sergey Romanov

Thanks for heads up, CL. I hope Charles makes a monster post out of this. This is indeed an "I told you so" moment, and rightfully so.

Page it. If it hasn't already been paged.

145 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:06:26am

re: #143 Winny Spencer

Aforementioned neo-Nazi site "realisten.se" brands Breivik as principally being a "radical Zionist".

He's not a Holocaust denier either, as is clear from his comments. He's even an anti-"National Socialist" (because of the "Socialist" part). I wouldn't bet he's not an antisemite though. Because we know that antisemites can instrumentalize Zionism and pro-Israel sentiment, mostly because they see Israel as a bulwark against Islamism.

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:06:50am

re: #144 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll let CL do it.

147 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:07:19am

re: #143 Winny Spencer

Aforementioned neo-Nazi site "realisten.se" brands Breivik as principally being a "radical Zionist".

Well, they're neo-Nazis.

From his writing in general, it appears he's got three main hates:

1. Marxists, who he basically identifies as anyone pushing multiculturalism.

2. Muslims, who he equates with Nazis, as in, there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim.

3. "Anti-authoritarian", which seems to be the least important to him, but is kind of like US 'libertarians'.

I do not believe his pro-Zionism is anything other than a veil for his hatred of Muslims.

148 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:08:36am

re: #145 Sergey Romanov

He's not a Holocaust denier either, as is clear from his comments. He's even an anti-"National Socialist" (because of the "Socialist" part). I wouldn't bet he's not an antisemite though. Because we know that antisemites can instrumentalize Zionism and pro-Israel sentiment, mostly because they see Israel as a bulwark against Islamism.

Given his intolerance to multiculturalism, I think he approves of Israel in the mistaken idea that it's an attempt at a monocultural society. Pro-zionist is very different than pro-Jewish.

149 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:09:21am

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

I'll let CL do it.

No, please, you go ahead. I don't have time this morning and I don't care about getting credit for it. What's important is that the info is out there—that's why I dropped the link here.

That does it! I'm closing the spy so you guys can't keep dragging me back, heh!

150 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:09:43am

From the BBC website:

Via Twitter:

@blakehounsell says he has been reading an online document which is believed to be attributed to Breivik and he says: "Breivik also praises the English Defence League profusely and calls for setting up a Norwegian version of it."

151 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:10:16am

re: #147 Obdicut

I do not believe his pro-Zionism is anything other than a veil for his hatred of Muslims.


He's been called a fundamentalist Christian on the news wire - can't rule out he's just pro-Israel so Jesus can come back and Armageddon can ensue.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:10:34am

re: #148 Obdicut

Exactly. I once wrote here that very often the nationalistic Right sees Israel exactly as the far left does, it's only the attitude that differs.

153 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:11:19am

re: #149 CuriousLurker

No, please, you go ahead. I don't have time this morning and I don't care about getting credit for it. What's important is that the info is out there—that's why I dropped the link here.

That does it! I'm closing the spy so you guys can't keep dragging me back, heh!

Actually, neither have I :) I would have, but - things to do. Obdi, maybe you?

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:12:17am

re: #151 wozzablog

He doesn't strike me as a US-fundie-like in that respect. His ideology is "rational".

155 Zendette  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:13:06am

This is the go to place for up to the minute news and a complete synopsis of the entire event.

156 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:14:17am

This guy is essentially the embodiment of every sentiment expressed at Gates of Vienna. What pushed him to take such incredibly drastic actions?

157 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:14:17am

re: #155 Zendette

This is the go to place for up to the minute news and a complete synopsis of the entire event.

You mean LGF of did you forget to post a link?

158 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:15:19am

re: #156 Winny Spencer

This guy is essentially the embodiment of every sentiment expressed at Gates of Vienna. What pushed him to take such incredibly drastic actions?

Essentially mimicking the enemy he professed to hate.

159 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:16:45am

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

He doesn't strike me as a US-fundie-like in that respect. His ideology is "rational".

Yes. This is, basically, the guy we all feared was coming, the cold, rational, intelligent, vehement anti-Muslim character who became convinced this really was a war of civilizations.

I think the fact he attacked the leftist party in Norway, rather than attempting to kill Muslims, shows quite a lot, too. His main hatred isn't for Muslims, who are kind of a bogeyman-- I firmly think that despite his 'pro-Zionist' stance, if Jews didn't have Israel and were emigrating to Norway, he wouldn't want them around either-- but towards the 'Marxists' who are 'enabling' the Muslims through multiculturalism.

160 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:17:01am

GoV comment:

War Blogger said...

Excuse me for lacking piety in the face of this attack, but to me this sounds more and more like a false flag operation. All reports I've read and heard speak of one man - Breivik - one man who supposedly was able to load himself up with weapons and kill more than 80 people of good health who had the chance to escape and evade him on rugged terrain.

Kragar called it.

161 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:17:03am

Morning folks

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:18:40am

re: #160 Sergey Romanov

They just can't wrap their little heads around the fact that one of them did it.

163 erraticsphinx  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:18:41am

I can't read the eyewitness stories from the summer camp island anymore, it's making me feel physically ill.

164 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:20:26am

OK, I have an idea for a page, if I can implement it technically.

165 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:21:49am

re: #163 erraticsphinx

Here, read this instead:


Norwegian islander ferries children to safety

166 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:23:16am

BBL.

167 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:24:26am

I just found the most stupidly ironic quote from this asshole. This was in regards to a Russian train bombing.

I do not understand why cnn mention the extreme right and the National Socialists? I havenever ever heard of a right extreme or NS terrorist attacks of importance on European soil. Thissounds like kulturmarxistisk wishful thinking.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:25:13am

re: #167 Obdicut

*nocomment*

169 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:25:51am

re: #147 Obdicut

I do not believe his pro-Zionism is anything other than a veil for his hatred of Muslims.

A lot like antisemitic cranks pretend to love Muslims/Islam but really as fodder in their hatred of Jews, and Israel. Seen both of those. A lot.

170 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:28:23am

re: #164 Sergey Romanov

OK, I have an idea for a page, if I can implement it technically.

I did a basic page. You said you didn't have time.:( Gave props to CL.

171 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:29:13am

re: #170 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, it's great. I don't have time for an analysis, but I do have an idea (which may be a flop).

172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:33:19am

re: #154 Sergey Romanov

He doesn't strike me as a US-fundie-like in that respect. His ideology is "rational".

Disagree. He sounds like the mirror image of Kevin MacDonald (faculty Cal State Long Beach), Jared Taylor (American Renaissance, "racial realist", probably what those aholes at realisten.se are trying to imitate), and those bigots at Occidental Quarterly/Charles Martel Society. Different brand of US-fundie, stupid cons.

Smart bigots.

173 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:33:34am

re: #21 Winny Spencer

It seems fairly obvious at this stage that he is a far-right nationalist of the Gates of Vienna-variety, with possible connections to neo-Nazis.

Neo-Nazi-connections seem unlikely. This is the other kind of fascist.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:35:36am

re: #172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you disagree just to disagree? :)

The people you're listing are not correctly described as fundies. Pat Robertson or pastor Jones are fundies. Taylor et al. are something else.

175 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:39:00am

re: #174 Sergey Romanov

Hell, I don't even know Taylor's religion.

176 erraticsphinx  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:41:29am

Question : How does one not kill themselves after murdering so many people? How is this dude still alive?

177 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:41:35am

Hmm, he does cite LGF once.

178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:42:44am

re: #174 Sergey Romanov

Do you disagree just to disagree? :)

No. :D

The people you're listing are not correctly described as fundies. Pat Robertson or pastor Jones are fundies. Taylor et al. are something else.

Sorry to get all pedantic but "fundie" is probably one of the most misused terms in circulation. For instance, Robertson is not a Fundamentalist, he is an Evangelical. People may not think so, but there are differences, just as there are differences between the Charles Martel and televangelist crowds.

I know you meant Christian Bible-banger types. I meant general conservative Christian-supremacists and xenophobes shrieking about the decline of the west. These traits are shared between Taylor, Robertson, Jones, and the like. 2 sides of the same bigoted coin, but the Occidental Quarterly crowd comes off with more intellectual credibility than the yahoos. That's all I meant.

179 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:43:59am

re: #177 Sergey Romanov

Hmm, he does cite LGF once.

A 5 year old article. I didn't recognize many names in the comments. Could he be one?

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:46:30am

re: #178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, we say "Islamic fundies" and that is even farther from some specific Christian Fundamentalism. Fundie is just a scripture-thumper, regardless of religion.

181 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:46:50am

re: #175 Obdicut

Hell, I don't even know Taylor's religion.

He is a member of council of Conservative Citizens.

182 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:47:21am

brb

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:47:50am

re: #179 RogueOne

Could easily be, seeing how the old LGF was the opposite of the new one.

184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:48:11am

re: #181 Cannadian Club Akbar

He is a member of council of Conservative Citizens.

So is Haley Barbour. Probably.

185 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:48:15am

re: #173 oslogin

Neo-Nazi-connections seem unlikely. This is the other kind of fascist.

Yes, that has become apparent.

186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:49:47am

Today's my 28th Anniversary. Honestly? I think we both thought one of us would be dead by now.

187 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:50:34am

re: #109 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Anyone seen this? [Link: www.auf.no...]

Excerpt:
If something happens
Norwegian People Aid will be present at the camp at all times. They can help if someone breaks an arm, gets a blister or something else.

Age
At Utøya there are youth from 13 to 30 years old. The average age is around 16.

188 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:50:42am

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

Well, we say "Islamic fundies" and that is even farther from some specific Christian Fundamentalism. Fundie is just a scripture-thumper, regardless of religion.

The word "Fundamentalist" came out of Christianity, some Protestants self-IDing as "going back to the fundamentals". But you're right, it gets applied to all manner of things, today.

189 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:50:45am

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

The first battle in the war on xmas.

190 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:51:07am

re: #186 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Today's my 28th Anniversary. Honestly? I think we both thought one of us would be dead by now.

congrats! The days not over yet.....

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:51:38am

okay, my experiment was succesful, page coming up.

192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:52:50am

re: #190 RogueOne

congrats! The days not over yet...

There's still hope?

193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:53:13am

re: #156 Winny Spencer

This guy is essentially the embodiment of every sentiment expressed at Gates of Vienna. What pushed him to take such incredibly drastic actions?

Sounds like a logical progression, to me.

194 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:53:41am

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's still hope?

Dead Man Walking.

195 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:54:12am

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's still hope?

She still has 16 hrs to put you in your grave bringing the peace and quiet only death can bring.//

196 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 4:57:06am

re: #193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sounds like a logical progression, to me.

Yeah, if you seriously believe that Islamification of Europe is occurring and is going to doom everyone, and that leftists are to blame for this, attacking leftists doesn't really seem like that much of a stretch-- except for the whole 'actually murdering people' part, instead of just talking about it.

197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:01:28am

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

198 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:02:11am

re: #170 Cannadian Club Akbar

I did a basic page. You said you didn't have time.:( Gave props to CL.

Thanks, CC.

199 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:02:31am

re: #196 Obdicut

Yeah, if you seriously believe that Islamification of Europe is occurring and is going to doom everyone, and that leftists are to blame for this, attacking leftists doesn't really seem like that much of a stretch-- except for the whole 'actually murdering people' part, instead of just talking about it.

Yeah, but we have seen exactly this scapegoating rationale to take the last step, before, from bigots of every stripe. The latest crop of strapped up anti-Islam rwnj has the exact same potential, afaic.

200 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:03:48am

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

Yes and yes. I was here for the bombing, but gone for the day myself.

201 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:04:34am

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

It was both. There is a suspect that has been arrested for both things. Rwnj Norwegian found to be posting cultural conservative, nationalist screeds on the internet.

202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:04:52am

re: #200 Cannadian Club Akbar

Watching it on the news now. Holy fuck.

Maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.

Send the fucker to Texas.

203 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:05:16am

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was out of news range yesterday. Don't really know what happened in Norway. Was it a bombing? Was it a shooting? What the hell?

A right-wing anti-Muslim anti-Marxist evil fucker set off a bomb and used the distraction of that to go to a summer camp for the left-wing ruling party and kill around 80 kids. Thats not a typo.


He is not some raving lunatic, either, but a cold, calculating type who's written extensively and cogently about his anti-Muslim, anti-leftist leanings.

204 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:06:59am

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching it on the news now. Holy fuck.

Maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.

Send the fucker to Texas.

They can review his fitness for release, too, and I think make him serve concurrently.

The Norwegian prime minister gave an excellent speech in the aftermath, before it was known who had done this.

"You cannot bomb us into not being Norway. Our response to violence will be more democracy, more openness, but not more naivete".

205 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:07:18am

re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching it on the news now. Holy fuck.

Maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.

Send the fucker to Texas.

91 people dead...they can even send him to Utah afaic.

206 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:08:51am

re: #205 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

91 people dead...they can even send him to Utah afaic.

There is absolutely no way Norway would ever seen a prisoner to anywhere where they might face the death penalty.

Let's let the Norwegians handle this their way, instead of bemoaning their lack of a death penalty.

207 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:09:27am

re: #193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sounds like a logical progression, to me.

re: #196 Obdicut

Yeah, if you seriously believe that Islamification of Europe is occurring and is going to doom everyone, and that leftists are to blame for this, attacking leftists doesn't really seem like that much of a stretch-- except for the whole 'actually murdering people' part, instead of just talking about it.

THIS. It makes more cold, calculating sense (much as I'm loath to say that) to try to stop the people who have opened spigot and allowed Muslims in than it does to attack the Muslims themselves since they will just keep coming.

I hope our government is taking note of that "logical progression". Gawd, what a horrible wake-up call.

208 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:09:28am

OK, here it is:

Mind of a Counter-Jihadi. Visualizing Anders Breivik's ideology.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Do with it what you will, I'm outta here for a while.

209 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:10:31am

re: #173 oslogin

Good morning. Do you not sleep? Admittedly I had trouble doing so after this and your input is appreciated.

I notice that pictures of the people from the island do not appear to be native Norwegians. Is that just a sample coincidence or does it explain why he chose that target.

What was the nature of the camp? So far all I have seen is "summer camp" as a description.

210 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:10:33am

re: #206 Obdicut

Sarcasm, Obdi. Sarcasm.

211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:10:50am

re: #206 Obdicut

There is absolutely no way Norway would ever seen a prisoner to anywhere where they might face the death penalty.

Let's let the Norwegians handle this their way, instead of bemoaning their lack of a death penalty.

It was just a joke - no one expects Norway to send him anywhere. Besides, I'm about 99.9999% against the death penalty, anyway.

212 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:11:56am

re: #206 Obdicut

He won't walk free and probably would not live long if he did.

213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:12:17am

re: #211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

214 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:14:24am

What I've seen to date:

He was fans of the Jihad Watch/Gates of Vienna/Atlas Shrugs/Fjordman crowd, a group we've been countering here since 2006.

He was Austrian school for economics, and professed libertarian stances.

Police in Norway characterize him as "Fundamentalist Christian".

He wanted to form up a Norwegian version of the English Defense league.

He farms, has access to fertilizer, and made large fertilizer purchases recently.

He is pro gun & owns a few

He's a xenophobe and anti-marxist EU skeptic

He isn't Fjordman, but is a fan of Fjordman's, citing his Eurabia book as good.

215 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:14:59am

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

There is no way to implement the death penalty only for people we really know are guilty. There's no way to perfect the system. Humans, fallible humans, are involved.

If you think that the death penalty's benefits, whatever they might be, are worth the execution of some people innocent of the crimes they were accused of, then I can deal with that, though I disagree.

But there is no death penalty system that's infallible.

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:15:15am

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

This guy will be patting himself on the back for the rest of his life. That's one fucked ideology.

217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:15:29am

re: #214 Thanos

And he's a murdering asshole.

218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:16:49am

re: #215 Obdicut

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

219 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:17:31am

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

Could easily be, seeing how the old LGF was the opposite of the new one.

Which underscores why Charles was wise to back away from all that when he did. People have clearly been thinking about this stuff for years and trying to plan & organize like-minded groups & individuals. Breivik may have thrown a big fat wrench into the works by acting prematurely on his own.

220 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:18:13am

re: #217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That too

221 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:18:41am

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

I'm trying to define where we disagree:

Do you actually think a death penalty system can exist that doesn't result in the execution of people innocent of the crimes they were accused of?

Do you think that the execution of some people who may be innocent is worth it for other benefits that come from having the death penalty?

222 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:19:14am

Workers' Youth League (Norway) - From Wikipedia

AUF was formed in April 1927, following the merger of Left Communist Youth League and Socialist Youth League of Norway. Its ideology is social democracy and democratic socialism. The current leader is Eskil Pedersen. Many former leading figures in AUF have gone on to serve in significant positions in government, such as the incumbent Prime Minister of Norway, Jens Stoltenberg.

2011 Norway attacks

Breivik apparently view himself as a sacrificial lamb, a savior of the mutherland. *Spit*

223 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:19:19am

re: #208 Sergey Romanov

OK, here it is:

Mind of a Counter-Jihadi. Visualizing Anders Breivik's ideology.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Do with it what you will, I'm outta here for a while.

Excellent.

224 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:19:41am

I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but what is really shocking here is the lack of a life sentence as a possibility.

225 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:20:30am

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

I think the death penalty is merciful. Attica is better for those who deserve it, but I fear the Norwegian prisons are too civil and not designed for this kind of being.

226 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:22:38am

re: #224 Winny Spencer

I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but what is really shocking here is the lack of a life sentence as a possibility.

Oslogin has said that it will be. They have "indefinite detention".

227 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:22:56am

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Fort Hood shooter's on trial. Hope they fry the fucker.

We'll never agree on this, pal. But, at least you're polite about it, and that I appreciate.

If they decide to put a needle in him they'll do it in IN. Go Hoosiers!

228 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:23:00am

re: #221 Obdicut

I'm trying to define where we disagree:

Do you actually think a death penalty system can exist that doesn't result in the execution of people innocent of the crimes they were accused of?

Do you think that the execution of some people who may be innocent is worth it for other benefits that come from having the death penalty?

I think with the advent and advances in DNA evidence coupled with video cameras in everyones hand as well as "watching" large swaths of urban areas, the game has changed as opposed to years ago with sketchy witnesses, tainted/coerced testimony

I would use the death penalty today where scientific evidence shows conclusively that the perp did it (as in Fats Fort hood example)

People that were convicted 20 odd years ago where there are still holes in the "evidence", not so much

229 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:23:11am

re: #224 Winny Spencer

I'm strongly in favor of the death penalty, but what is really shocking here is the lack of a life sentence as a possibility.

What's really shocking is people assuming they understand the Norweigan legal system.

For criminals they consider necessarily dangerous, they use a different sentencing scheme, where the prisoner's sentence is reviewed every five years. So it is, in fact, possible to get life in prison, you just can't get it as one full sentence.

230 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:23:59am

re: #228 sattv4u2


I would use the death penalty today where scientific evidence shows conclusively that the perp did it (as in Fats Fort hood example)

Yeah, because there certainly haven't been any cases of tainted results coming back from the police labs recently.

/

231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:24:24am

re: #221 Obdicut

Not worth it at all. Though personally? I'd rather be executed than falsely imprisoned for life. But, I am only speaking for myself.

But often, there's no doubt at all. As in the Fort Hood shooter. Ain't no doubt he's the guy. He should die. Now.

Perhaps we could find someone who disagrees with the death penalty 99% of the time; let them be the arbiter.

There are a few folks out there that even most hippies would agree executing.

232 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:24:32am

re: #229 Obdicut

Ok.

233 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:25:29am

I don't know how the prison system works over there, but I wonder if people will be able to give him money to spend at the commissary for candy bars and Cokes and chips. You know the nutters will be throwing him cash a bit at a time. Food and water.

234 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:25:33am

re: #231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But often, there's no doubt at all. As in the Fort Hood shooter. Ain't no doubt he's the guy. He should die. Now.

But that's not a system. How do you codify that "ain't no doubt" into law? The death penalty has to be administered by a legal system. How do you write it so that only those we know absolutely are guilty are put to death? How do you get that knowledge?

235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:25:41am

re: #207 CuriousLurker

re: #196 Obdicut

THIS. It makes more cold, calculating sense (much as I'm loath to say that) to try to stop the people who have opened spigot and allowed Muslims in than it does to attack the Muslims themselves since they will just keep coming.

I hope our government is taking note of that "logical progression". Gawd, what a horrible wake-up call.

Yeah, it's anti- n-lover/j-lover mentality.

I have no doubt they are up on it, in the Obama Age. Anders is like a Norwegian Kris Kobach, that bigot FAIR lawyer behind that AZ anti-immigrant law.

236 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:25:52am

re: #225 Naso Tang

I think the death penalty is merciful. Attica is better for those who deserve it, but I fear the Norwegian prisons are too civil and not designed for this kind of being.

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a "civil" prison. When you toss murderers/thieves/rapists together bad things happen.

237 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:26:36am

re: #230 Obdicut

Yeah, because there certainly haven't been any cases of tainted results coming back from the police labs recently.

/

Fort Hood has tainted results?
Someone like Jeffery Dahlmer, the evidence was planted?

238 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:27:00am

re: #236 RogueOne

Norway has rehabilitative prisons that have seen a lot of success.

I doubt this guy will be a candidate for one of those, though. I doubt he'll be able to be in any general population, even in Norway, without being killed himself.

239 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:27:08am

re: #234 Obdicut

But that's not a system. How do you codify that "ain't no doubt" into law? The death penalty has to be administered by a legal system. How do you write it so that only those we know absolutely are guilty are put to death? How do you get that knowledge?

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

240 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:28:00am

re: #237 sattv4u2

Fort Hood has tainted results?
Someone like Jeffery Dahlmer, the evidence was planted?

Are those the only cases that have ever been tried?

You asserted scientific evidence would give us certainty. I pointed out that that evidence is also capable of being tainted, as has been shown recently.

Saying that certain people are guilty is not a counterargument, at all. I have no clue why you think it is.

241 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:28:12am

re: #239 RogueOne

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

But make sure it's sanitized first!
/(sorta)

242 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:28:25am

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only have a problem executing the wrong person. Other than that? I'm all for it. Especially in cases like this.

Yep. There is always that 0.00001% that should indeed fry.

243 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:28:29am

re: #239 RogueOne

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

Great. Frame that as a law, and then we can actually use it in our legal system.

244 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:28:57am

re: #231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I disagree with it on principle, but when not on a high moral pedestal would not be adverse to pulling the switch in many cases.

245 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:30:05am

re: #239 RogueOne

In the case of the Ft. Hood shooter we have dozens of witnesses and a confession. Stick a needle in him.

No. The person is either guilty in the eyes of the law, or not. Beyond the reasonable doubt. There is no provision in the law for differentiating between "people who are 100% guilty" and people who are "probably just 80% guilty". If you don't execute someone because there are doubts in his case, he should not be in prison in the first place.

Pro-DP position either makes no sense or is OK with innocents being killed by the state.

OK, bye for now/

246 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:30:35am

re: #240 Obdicut


Are those the only cases that have ever been tried?

Not at all, but those are two (of many) that there is NO doubt about

Saying that certain people are guilty is not a counterargument, at all. I have no clue why you think it is.

Saying certain people are innocent, therefore those that are 100% guilty should get off (in the examples above) is not a counterargument. I have no clue why you think it is!

247 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:30:54am

re: #243 Obdicut

Great. Frame that as a law, and then we can actually use it in our legal system.

"beyond a doubt" is better than "beyond a reasonable doubt". If all DP cases were held to that standard I could live with it.

248 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:31:02am

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

249 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:31:41am

re: #246 sattv4u2


Saying certain people are innocent, therefore those that are 100% guilty should get off (in the examples above) is not a counterargument. I have no clue why you think it is!

I didn't say that. Why do you need to pretend I did?

250 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:32:16am

re: #248 Obdicut

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

He killed innocents

He's NOT innocent

Poetry in motion!

251 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:32:17am

re: #248 Obdicut

I like poetic justice quite a lot.

"Poetic" somehow sounds nicer than I think you meant it.

252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:32:17am

re: #228 sattv4u2

I think with the advent and advances in DNA evidence coupled with video cameras in everyones hand as well as "watching" large swaths of urban areas, the game has changed as opposed to years ago with sketchy witnesses, tainted/coerced testimony

Police state for urban areas, while Timothy McVeigh and Anders B sit and seethe in the suburbs.

Excellent.

253 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:32:42am

re: #248 Obdicut

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

Make him write out the Koran on a blackboard. 500,000 times.

254 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:32:45am

re: #247 RogueOne

"beyond a doubt" is better than "beyond a reasonable doubt". If all DP cases were held to that standard I could live with it.

And how would you construct that standard so that it couldn't possibly ever get abused?

We execute people where there's 'reasonable doubt' now.

255 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:33:35am

re: #252 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Police state for urban areas, while Timothy McVeigh and Anders B sit and seethe in the suburbs.

Excellent.

I'm stating a fact. Go to most urban areas and look up at a telephone pole, an entrance to a building, an ATM machine

We See You!!

256 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:33:42am

re: #251 Naso Tang

"Poetic" somehow sounds nicer than I think you meant it.

IMO, an eye for an eye is poetic justice. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to live under a system like that though.

257 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:34:15am

re: #248 Obdicut

I'd personally rather have this guy work the rest of his life breaking rocks that'll be used to build homes for immigrants to Norway.

Or some other appropriate punishment. I like poetic justice quite a lot.

Letting him stay miserable, wishing for death and denying him into perpetuity suits me just fine, too.

258 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:34:23am

re: #251 Naso Tang

"Poetic" somehow sounds nicer than I think you meant it.

If you've never heard the phrase before, I guess so.

Though I'm actually using it wrongly, since it's mainly a narrative trope and doesn't mean anything close to the 'eye-for-an-eye' or 'gets the reverse punishment from the crime' thing.

259 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:35:32am

re: #255 sattv4u2

I'm stating a fact. Go to most urban areas and look up at a telephone pole, an entrance to a building, an ATM machine

We See You!!

I didn't say it was not a fact, I live in an "urban area".

Meanwhile, we have monsters sitting and stewing in the suburbs and rural areas.

260 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:35:55am

re: #254 Obdicut

And how would you construct that standard so that it couldn't possibly ever get abused?

We execute people where there's 'reasonable doubt' now.

That was my point. I'm generally against the DP because of the "reasonable doubt". OTOH, there are cases where there is zero doubt and some of those people deserve the DP. This planet would be a better place without some people on it.

261 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:36:19am

re: #258 Obdicut

I've heard it, but think it is used something equivalent to "hoist by one's own petard", for example, as opposed to "eye for an eye".

262 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:36:21am

re: #257 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Letting him stay miserable, wishing for death and denying him into perpetuity suits me just fine, too.

We may not be able to make him miserable. He may be happy the rest of his life. He might love to die a martyr. Attempting to affect him shouldn't be the point of what we do. Hell, it glorifies him too much.

I don't want him to be forced to labor to provide building materials for immigrants because I think it'll make him suffer, but so that at the end of the day there are more building materials available for immigrants.

He killed more than eighty people. He's caused an insane amount of misery for huge numbers of people. There is no possible way to make him realize or feel even a fraction of the suffering that he's caused to others. Any attempt to do so is futile.

263 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:36:28am

re: #259 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I didn't say it was not a fact, I live in an "urban area".

Meanwhile, we have monsters sitting and stewing in the suburbs and rural areas.

and ????

264 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:36:45am

re: #260 RogueOne

That was my point. I'm generally against the DP because of the "reasonable doubt". OTOH, there are cases where there is zero doubt and some of those people deserve the DP. This planet would be a better place without some people on it.

I agree. However, there is no way to actually make that happen in a legal system.

265 Meitantei  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:37:30am

So, if I'm right, the way the Norwegian legal system would work in this case would be that every twenty or so years they would spend about three seconds "reviewing" his case before saying "Go back to your cell and read the Quran some more". Correct?

266 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:37:32am

re: #261 Naso Tang

I've heard it, but think it is used something equivalent to "hoist by one's own petard", for example, as opposed to "eye for an eye".

Yes, you're right. It's more ironic justice than anything else. If he'd blown himself up, that'd be poetic justice.

267 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:37:57am

re: #265 Meitantei

Unless they actually believed that he had rehabilitated, yes. And I think it's every five years.

268 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:38:45am

OT

An unsteady forklift dropped a container of fine Australian wine worth more than $1 million, smashing most of the bottles
[Link: www.boston.com...]

Lucyyyy,,,,, you got some SPLAININ to do !!!!!

/

269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:39:36am

re: #262 Obdicut

We may not be able to make him miserable. He may be happy the rest of his life. He might love to die a martyr. Attempting to affect him shouldn't be the point of what we do. Hell, it glorifies him too much.

I don't want him to be forced to labor to provide building materials for immigrants because I think it'll make him suffer, but so that at the end of the day there are more building materials available for immigrants.

He killed more than eighty people. He's caused an insane amount of misery for huge numbers of people. There is no possible way to make him realize or feel even a fraction of the suffering that he's caused to others. Any attempt to do so is futile.

Ngh, not what was said.

The phrase was, let him stay miserable and wish for death. Who cares what he thinks about what he did, or trying to make him "feel" anything. He can go fuck off.

270 abolitionist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:40:18am

re: #268 sattv4u2

Forklift drivers are not paid very well, I'd bet.

271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:40:24am

re: #263 sattv4u2

and ???

Stating a fact, relax.

272 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:40:45am

re: #268 sattv4u2

OT

An unsteady forklift dropped a container of fine Australian wine worth more than $1 million, smashing most of the bottles
[Link: www.boston.com...]

Lucyyy,,, you got some SPLAININ to do !!!

/

I brought this up yesterday. Dropping 462 cases at once? Na. And not with a forklift.

273 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:41:32am

re: #262 Obdicut

The real key on punishment will be how restrictive his communication with the rest of the world is. I don't care if he has a Jacuzzi, but would like to see zero news and zero outside communication.

274 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:41:40am

re: #271 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Stating a fact, relax.

I thought there was a point you were trying to make

275 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:42:17am

re: #270 abolitionist

Forklift drivers are not paid very well, I'd bet.

mid to upper 30's iirc

276 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:42:38am

re: #269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin


The phrase was, let him stay miserable and wish for death. Who cares what he thinks about what he did, or trying to make him "feel" anything.

So misery isn't a feeling? There's no way to be certain to make someone miserable, or to wish for death. Especially a cold-blooded murderer.

I agree with you that he can fuck off. I hope they don't give him too much of a chance to speak at his trial; no long-winded defensive diatribes.

277 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:43:19am

re: #274 sattv4u2

I thought there was a point you were trying to make

Stick around, every so often I do endeavor to make a point or so. I don't think you will like many of them, though.

278 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:43:24am

re: #273 Naso Tang

The real key on punishment will be how restrictive his communication with the rest of the world is. I don't care if he has a Jacuzzi, but would like to see zero news and zero outside communication.

I think he should only be able to receive copies of "Ebony" magazine and "Sufiism Today".

279 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:43:53am

re: #272 Cannadian Club Akbar

I brought this up yesterday. Dropping 462 cases at once? Na. And not with a forklift.

Sparky Marquis of Mollydooker Wines lost a third of his Velvet Glove Shiraz

Deserves it just because of his 1st name and what he named his winery!
///

280 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:45:17am

re: #277 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Stick around, every so often I do endeavor to make a point or so. I don't think you will like many of them, though.

I don't have to "like" them. Couldn't care less if you "like" mine or not, for that matter

Just thought there was one you were trying to make. Wanted to insure I wasn't missing something

281 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:45:32am

re: #278 Obdicut

and no bible.

282 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:45:49am

BBL

283 kirkspencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:46:49am

re: #231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not worth it at all. Though personally? I'd rather be executed than falsely imprisoned for life. But, I am only speaking for myself.

But often, there's no doubt at all. As in the Fort Hood shooter. Ain't no doubt he's the guy. He should die. Now.

Perhaps we could find someone who disagrees with the death penalty 99% of the time; let them be the arbiter.

There are a few folks out there that even most hippies would agree executing.

Here's the problem. Theoretically there is no doubt about ANY of the people up for execution. Most, however, were not caught redhanded like the Ft Hood shooter.

It comes back to the old balance. Which is better, that some guilty should go unpunished lest we punish an innocent, or that some innocent should be punished lest any guilty escape? (Plug in numbers of your choice, but the core is that.)

Justice is not built from the easy cases.

284 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:47:05am

re: #278 Obdicut

I think he should only be able to receive copies of "Ebony" magazine and "Sufiism Today".

Ebony mag has some really hot chicks in it. Racist or no racist.

285 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:48:20am

re: #276 Obdicut

So misery isn't a feeling? There's no way to be certain to make someone miserable, or to wish for death. Especially a cold-blooded murderer.

If his writings are any indicator, he's already made himself quite miserable. Fine with me if he stays in that condition forever, afaic.


I agree with you that he can fuck off. I hope they don't give him too much of a chance to speak at his trial; no long-winded defensive diatribes.

Yes. No grandstanding, no release, no relief.

286 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:49:42am

re: #280 sattv4u2

I don't have to "like" them.

Like them or don't, nobody cares. They're just comments.

Just thought there was one you were trying to make. Wanted to insure I wasn't missing something

Sure you were.

287 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:50:51am

re: #286 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sure you were

Yes, I was,, hence the "and???"

Meaning, I thought there was something more!!

288 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:52:02am

He should have just High Fived the clerk!!!

A North End man who won $500 from a lottery scratch ticket Thursday saw his luck run out only moments later
Joseph Taglieri, 31, was arrested on charges of property damage and marijuana possession after he jumped on the roof of a car to celebrate,

[Link: www.boston.com...]

289 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:52:32am

re: #278 Obdicut

I think he should only be able to receive copies of "Ebony" magazine and "Sufiism Today".

I do like this idea of writing the Koran 500,000,000 times though. Hilarious!

290 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:53:00am

re: #287 sattv4u2

Sure you were

Yes, I was,, hence the "and???"

Meaning, I thought there was something more!!

Uh-huh. I believe you.

291 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:54:43am

re: #290 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Uh-huh. I believe you.

Except for the part where you don't!

(at least I was honest about it [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

292 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:55:22am

re: #288 sattv4u2
I would just have a huge smile on my face. To my knowledge you cannot be arrested for that.

293 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:56:33am

re: #292 PhillyPretzel

I would just have a huge smile on my face. To my knowledge you cannot be arrested for that.

No, but they might tell you to stay away from the playground.
///

294 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:57:12am

re: #293 Cannadian Club Akbar
True.

295 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:57:19am

re: #292 PhillyPretzel

I would just have a huge smile on my face. To my knowledge you cannot be arrested for that.

Depends

Someone may think that your "leering" at them in an unusual manner!!
//

296 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:57:35am

re: #291 sattv4u2

Except for the part where you don't!

(at least I was honest about it [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

You're very tightly wound this morning.

There is no reason to be upset. Cripes.

297 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:58:03am

re: #293 Cannadian Club Akbar

No, but they might tell you to stay away from the playground.
///

How much longer till you can go within 100 yards of one?
/

298 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:58:43am

re: #295 sattv4u2
I forgot that there are some dirty minds who like to "hang" here.

299 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:58:51am

re: #296 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You're very tightly wound this morning.

There is no reason to be upset. Cripes.

Why would you think I'm upset?
I'm merely responding to each of your posts to me.

300 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:59:14am

re: #297 sattv4u2

How much longer till you can go within 100 yards of one?
/

I can get close but they frown upon me wearing my bunny suit. Wait, what?
////

301 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 5:59:29am

re: #298 PhillyPretzel

I forgot that there are some dirty minds who like to "hang" here.

CCA,, move over

Someone wants a seat in the gutter!!!

302 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:01:28am

re: #299 sattv4u2

Why would you think I'm upset?
I'm merely responding to each of your posts to me.

That's better.

There's no point in yelling. It's just comments.

303 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:01:38am

Why doesn't the recession/depression affect campaign war chests!?!?!

[Link: www.boston.com...]

Beacon Hill leaders rake in donations

304 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:02:03am

re: #302 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's better.

There's no point in yelling. It's just comments.

and where did I "yell"??

305 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:04:53am

imho, there are still a lot of "hero's" in this world

This soldier is but one of them!!

[Link: www.boston.com...]

A quick-thinking soldier who had started his leave only 90 minutes earlier pulled off a New York highway to help rescue passengers from a tour bus that was burning

306 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:05:11am

Meanwhile there's a lot of people out there like Jennifer Rubin who are being exceedingly slow to retract their initial "it's the Moooooslims!" angle on this story.

[Link: progressiverealist.org...]

307 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:06:03am
308 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:07:32am

re: #307 Killgore Trout

As Usual...
MOSSAD SUSPECTED OF BOMBING IN NORWAY

Sort of like newspaper obituaries for famous people, I really think those stories are already written. They just fill in the dates/ places as needed!!

309 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:07:49am

re: #307 Killgore Trout

But of course. For some people on the far right and the far left every single news item is just another opportunity to slather on their agitprop.

310 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:08:58am

re: #307 Killgore Trout
Oy vey but typical. Very sad.

311 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:11:11am

re: #307 Killgore Trout

And Rupert Murdoch is a zionist, apparently.

312 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:11:42am

re: #307 Killgore Trout

That man's guitar has only one string.

"Many websites are out there at present spewing out garbage, and massive distortions of "truth". I have read many of these sites such as "infowars", and "rense", and have come to the conclusion that although much of their information may be factual, they refuse to name the criminals outright! They prefer instead to call it a "New World Order", or the Jesuits, or the Illuminati! People must know by now that the criminals are nothing more than Zionist Jews and their minions!"
313 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:12:23am

re: #308 sattv4u2

Sort of like newspaper obituaries for famous people, I really think those stories are already written. They just fill in the dates/ places as needed!!

libertarian-jewish farmers, how did no one see this coming?

314 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:13:23am

re: #312 jaunte
worse. He only knows one song.

315 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:14:22am

re: #307 Killgore Trout

As Usual...
MOSSAD SUSPECTED OF BOMBING IN NORWAY

The money sentence

When the controlled media shouts out that it was a "Muslim terrorist" attack in Norway, just use some common sense and realize that there is only one criminal group on Earth that has the motive and the means of carrying out this attack.

This guy played football for too many years sans helmet

316 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:17:04am

re: #307 Killgore Trout

Northerntruthseeker
Canadian male, age 51... Sickened by the lies of history, and how our education system has ruined and failed our childrens' minds, I decided it was time to take a stand and put up real articles of truthful information. Willing to fight to see truth come out, and to have the true criminals on our planet exposed for their crimes against humanity. I am in this for the truth and where ever the truth leads me

True!!!!

317 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:17:50am

great,, now I have to take my puter to the car wash!!!

318 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:18:19am

re: #317 sattv4u2
ROFL

319 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:20:06am

The response of the right-wing blogopshere to this is nuts.

You've got places that simply aren't mentioning it, like Redstate and Ace of Spades.

You've go the Gates of Vienna insisting there's a Muslim connection, and attempting to whip up furor that Charles 'claimed'-- rather than relaying a claim-- that this dude was Fjordman.


You've got freepers claiming he wasn't a right-winger at all.

You've got Jessica Rubin not correcting her lecturing post about how this shows how dangerous Muslim fanatics are.

I don't see anywhere dealing with it at all responsibly.

320 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:22:16am

I really hope this isn't true:

Norway police suspects second shooter may be at large, as reported by Utoya massacre eyewitnesses

Hopefully it's just confused reports from victims.

321 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:22:16am

Anders Behring Breivik and Fjordman - clarification
I haven't had enough coffee yet so this doesn't make sense to me but I'm pretty sure Fjordy isn't the shooter.

322 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:22:26am

re: #319 Obdicut

The response of the right-wing blogopshere to this is nuts.

...

I don't see anywhere dealing with it at all responsibly.

They're rwnj. "Personal responsibility" is for every other group of people on earth but them.

323 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:22:26am

re: #319 Obdicut

I don't see anywhere dealing with it at all responsibly

As long as the Norwegian authorities are, the others you mention are like assholes

Everyone has one, but nobody wants to hear from someone elses

324 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:23:41am

re: #321 Killgore Trout

He isn't. He's very ideologically close to Fjordman, though.

325 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:25:46am

re: #324 Obdicut

He isn't. He's very ideologically close to Fjordman, though.

I think Kilgore is refrencing this paragraph

Anders Behring Breivik, according to own data, previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman

326 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:26:55am

Who is the suspect in Norway's attacks?

NRK reports that Breivik is registered as having run a company which produced "vegetables, melons, roots and tubers" -- an industry which allows access to large amounts of fertilizer, the broadcaster notes, which can be used for explosives.

I guess this helps to explain his bomb.

327 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:29:43am
328 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:30:01am

I still want to know specifics about his religious views. He's said to be a "fundamentalist Christian" in the news reports. That could mean anything.

329 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:32:40am

re: #328 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I still want to know specifics about his religious views. He's said to be a "fundamentalist Christian" in the news reports. That could mean anything.

It could be anything. I suspect his religious views might be Christian Identity which is popular among nazi-types.

330 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:33:42am

re: #327 jaunte
From the article:
"It was 6 tons of fertilizer, which is a small, normal order for a standard agricultural producer."

Gee. If I buy a bag of manure I am on a terrorist suspect?? I hope not.

331 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:34:33am

re: #329 Killgore Trout

It's funny how vehemently he denies and attacks Nazi-ism, while expressing a cultural and racial ethnocentrism.

I do think that he's far more anti-authoritarian than an actual neo-Nazi. He's more on the whacko libertarian side of things in that regard.

332 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:35:28am

re: #327 jaunte

Norway suspect bought 6 tons of fertilizer in May

It shows how long he's been planning this. First he started up the farm as a cover for this. That's a long, long time to plan this out.

Monstrous.

333 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:36:30am

re: #319 Obdicut

The response of the right-wing blogopshere to this is nuts.

You've got places that simply aren't mentioning it, like Redstate and Ace of Spades.

You've go the Gates of Vienna insisting there's a Muslim connection, and attempting to whip up furor that Charles 'claimed'-- rather than relaying a claim-- that this dude was Fjordman.

You've got freepers claiming he wasn't a right-winger at all.

You've got Jessica Rubin not correcting her lecturing post about how this shows how dangerous Muslim fanatics are.

I don't see anywhere dealing with it at all responsibly.

Over at Jihad Watch Spencer has ignored this since the terrorist was ID'ed as a fan, but in the last comment thread everyone is desperately and insanely spinning every theory under the sun to keep from admitting that this guy is just like them.

334 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:37:14am

re: #330 PhillyPretzel

From the article:
"It was 6 tons of fertilizer, which is a small, normal order for a standard agricultural producer."

Gee. If I buy a bag of manure I am on a terrorist suspect?? I hope not.

I got carded buying spray paint this week. It's absolutely ridiculous.

335 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:38:06am

re: #332 Obdicut

Have you seen any reports on how long he owned the farm?

336 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:38:33am

re: #334 RogueOne
They thought you were going to "tag" something. /

337 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:39:48am

re: #335 jaunte

Have you seen any reports on how long he owned the farm?

Nope. But the extent of this guy's planning is scary.

I really, really hope the second shooter is a mistaken report.

338 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:40:15am

re: #336 PhillyPretzel

They thought you were going to "tag" something. /

They were afraid I was this guy:
Image: 0721051gold1-757390.jpg

339 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:41:04am

re: #337 Obdicut

Ah, here it is. Looks like you may be right about his long-term planning.

Breivik established firm GeoFrame in 2009, and stated that the company should engage in the cultivation of vegetables, roots and tubers. The company in this industry you can get access to large amounts of fertilizer.
[Link: translate.google.com...]

340 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:48:06am

Interesting, banned from facebook for a while in his 20's, hopefully they can find that archived page

341 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:55:49am

re: #334 RogueOne

I got carded buying spray paint this week. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Are your spray painted ramblings better than the ones you post here!?!?!

///

342 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:56:20am

Added this para to my page:

I ran the
business a few years while I studied and earned a few million so I could finance a inntektsløs
politically active life. I now use these funds to be able to work full time to further develop /
promote the Vienna Academy (Vienna school of thought) that Fjordman, Bat Yeor, Spencer +
many others have already contributed so much till.

Seems he has been a large sponsor of the whole counter-Jihad boondoggle. I think there are some shoes to drop soon.

343 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:56:50am

A commenter over at GOV calling out Fjordman, where they are still trying to falsely perpetrate the idea that Charles is accusing Fjordass with the murders:

The websites spreading these rumors have to be addressed. The whole affair is already a nightmare for the counterjihad movement; it's not something we can deal with defensively. And sorry, Fjordman, you are kind of an intellectual flagship of the movement. Not defending you against this kind of slander would be criminally negligent.
Comment from GOV:

7/23/2011 9:15 AM
Blogger puolimieli said...

Fjordman, it seems that you did know the murderer from online discussions. He posted at document.no, and you discussed with him there. You should come clean about this.

This terrible affair also reflects very poorly on Gates of Vienna, because although the murderer obviously disagrees with the chosen methods of Fjordman and this blog, he shares your ideological views. See here for details.


7/23/2011 9:40 AM

344 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 6:59:42am

BTW, checked RSMcCain's site earlier today, and as news was coming in, he constantly joked about those Lutheran terrorists, wink wink, nudge nudge. Until it turned out that he may as well be one, although not a mainstream, of course:

I myself am a Protestant and baptized / confirmed to me by my own free will when I was 15
But today's Protestant church is a joke. Priests in jeans who march for Palestine and churches
that look like the minimalist shopping centers. I am a supporter of an indirect collective
conversion of the Protestant church back to the Catholic. In the meantime, I vote for the most
conservative candidates in church elections.
The only thing that can save the Protestant church is to go back to basics.
345 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:02:14am

re: #341 sattv4u2

Are your spray painted ramblings better than the ones you post here!?!?!

///

I like lots of pretty colors.

In IN they passed a law where they card you, regardless of age, for cigarettes and liquor. I don't know if the paint thing is an IN requirement or one from the feds but it's probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to lock up OTC cold meds or to card people dropping off prescriptions. Not picking up but dropping off. All of which I find incredibly annoying.

346 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:07:16am

re: #344 Sergey Romanov

I put your page on my FB.

347 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:07:33am

re: #345 RogueOne

I like lots of pretty colors.

In IN they passed a law where they card you, regardless of age, for cigarettes and liquor. I don't know if the paint thing is an IN requirement or one from the feds but it's probably the same people who thought it was a good idea to lock up OTC cold meds or to card people dropping off prescriptions. Not picking up but dropping off. All of which I find incredibly annoying.

I think the paint thing is from the feds, when there was an onslaught of kids getting high sniffing the fumes

348 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:09:32am

re: #345 RogueOne

card people dropping off prescriptions. Not picking up but dropping off.

That may be an IN thing, as I never had to do that back in Massachusetts, Maine, North or South Carolina nor here in Georgia (all places where I have gotten prescriptions in the past decade for eitehr myself, my wife or my son)

349 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:09:41am

re: #347 sattv4u2

I think the paint thing is from the feds, when there was an onslaught of kids getting high sniffing the fumes

"onslaught" might be a slight exaggeration. huffing paint isn't new and when you can buy weed easier than cigarettes...it's unnecessary.

350 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:09:53am

Cultivated never any vegetables here

Neighbors to the farm Anders Behring Breivik rented reacted on fertilizer purchases.
351 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:10:05am

re: #343 Thanos

From the link..

This terrible affair also reflects very poorly on Gates of Vienna, because although the murderer obviously disagrees with the chosen methods of Fjordman and this blog, he shares your ideological views.

The "chosen methods" of Fjordman and his blog involve rounding up all the Muslims and deporting them. Which at some point would involve shooting the ones who refuse to leave. The GOV defenders can claim their methods aren't violent. Attempting to round up millions of people from their homes and shipping them out would absolutely be a violent undertaking.

352 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:10:22am

re: #349 RogueOne

"onslaught" might be a slight exaggeration. huffing paint isn't new and when you can buy weed easier than cigarettes...it's unnecessary.

iirc, although by no means "new', there was a big wave of it back 15-20 years ago

353 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:10:43am

Holy pterodactyl crap on the windshield of Jesus' T-Rex, Batman! Rational science education policy out of the Texas board of education?

July 22, 2011

Today the State Board of Education voted to adopt the Texas education commissioner’s recommended list of science instructional materials. Special interest groups and activists off the state board failed in their efforts to force publishers to change their instructional materials to include arguments against evolutionary science. In addition, the board voted unanimously to reject the adoption of instructional materials from a New Mexico-based vendor that promoted “intelligent design”/creationism.

Good morning primordial ooze...you've come a long way, baby.

354 Mich-again  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:12:50am

re: #353 darthstar

That's great news. It will be interesting to hear the reactions from the ID crowd.

355 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:14:08am

re: #349 RogueOne

"onslaught" might be a slight exaggeration. huffing paint isn't new and when you can buy weed easier than cigarettes...it's unnecessary.


Ever see the movie "Citizen Ruth"? Funny film about a gal who's a huffer who gets pregnant and ends up in the center of a battle between anti-choice wingnuts and equally caricatured abortion-rights advocates. Laura Dern is great in it.

356 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:14:12am

re: #354 Mich-again

That's great news. It will be interesting to hear the reactions from the ID crowd.

Boilerplate

"Although this is a setback/ disappointment, we're encouraged that we were able to bring this to the forefront and will continue to ,,,,,,blah blah"

357 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:15:07am

re: #353 darthstar

Heh. Might this mean Texas will have to buy California edited/produced texts?

358 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:15:07am

re: #355 darthstar

Ever see the movie "Citizen Ruth"? Funny film about a gal who's a huffer who gets pregnant and ends up in the center of a battle between anti-choice wingnuts and equally caricatured abortion-rights advocates. Laura Dern is great in it.

Hey Laura

How Ya Durn !??!

//

359 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:16:17am

Stupidest response to the shooting yet:

It is the left-wing that is responsible for this outrage, not the right-wing. This act of violence is the consequence of a deranged political elite attempting to demographic re-engineer an entire continent against the wishes of its people; exploiting imperfections in the democratic system so that the people are never allowed a real choice; passing laws to criminalise free speech so that honest discussion is scarcely possible any more; and a media conspiracy (embodied in laws or informal agreement's like the NUJ Guidelines on Race Reporting) to systematically suppress information about the negative consequences mass third-world immigration, and particularly the Muslim component of it, is having on Europe.

360 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:17:00am

re: #358 sattv4u2

Hey Laura

How Ya DuErn !??!

//

COFFEE ,, STAT

361 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:17:29am

How long before "he really was a Muslim plant" comes up?

362 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:17:56am

re: #355 darthstar

Ever see the movie "Citizen Ruth"? Funny film about a gal who's a huffer who gets pregnant and ends up in the center of a battle between anti-choice wingnuts and equally caricatured abortion-rights advocates. Laura Dern is great in it.

It's on netflix. I just added it to my queue. I'll check it out, thanks!

363 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:18:00am

Good morning, all.

364 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:18:05am

re: #359 Obdicut

Who?

365 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:19:18am

re: #359 Obdicut

Stupidest response to the shooting yet:

Propagandistic Horseshit is what that is.

366 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:19:31am

re: #359 Obdicut

Stupidest response to the shooting yet:

Who knew THAT was coming? Bad behavior on the part of the right is always the fault of the left for making them do it./

367 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:20:29am

Okay...I don't do this normally, but I went ahead and paged the TBOE thing...

368 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:21:07am

darthstar, if you're reading, could you set these persons straight? These things should be nipped in the bud.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

369 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:22:49am

re: #366 allegro

Who knew THAT was coming? Bad behavior on the part of the right is always the fault of the left for making them do it./

There is very rarely a war or terrorist attack where one side will admit to being the aggressor; even clear cut attacks will for politico-social reasons always claim to be defending something. It's bullshit, of course. You set the bomb, you're to blame. It's like Ann Coulter blaming the left for George Tiller's murder.

370 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:24:32am

re: #359 Obdicut

This is apparently what that idiot is upset about.

Statement on race reporting
1. The NUJ believes that the development of racist attitudes and the growth of fascist parties pose a threat to democracy, the rights of trade union organisations, a free press and the development of social harmony and well-being.
[Link: www.mediawise.org.uk...]
371 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:24:39am

re: #368 Sergey Romanov

darthstar, if you're reading, could you set these persons straight? These things should be nipped in the bud.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Yes, please. LGF did promote Fijordman at one time, but he was not a radical then. As he turned to anti-Islam hate, Charles cut off contact and denounced him.

372 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:25:03am

re: #359 Obdicut

No matter, found out.

Here's the thing. Honesty in the first paras is refreshing, but what this person is saying is that there will be more of this, from the same crowd. This is just the logical consequence.

373 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:26:39am

re: #361 Sergey Romanov

It's already there in the comments at Jihadwatch, Atlas, and GOV

374 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:28:51am

re: #342 Sergey Romanov

Added this para to my page:

Seems he has been a large sponsor of the whole counter-Jihad boondoggle. I think there are some shoes to drop soon.

Interesting. A few million? how much is that in real money?

375 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:29:17am

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

Yes, please. LGF did promote Fijordman at one time, but he was not a radical then. As he turned to anti-Islam hate, Charles cut off contact and denounced him.

I'm going to say that he was radical then, he just hid it well. I was among the first here to really call him out, when he wouldn't debate with me on the import of individual rights and protections against the masses. He knew what was coming next and he couldn't defend it without a big reveal.

376 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:30:38am

re: #374 Killgore Trout

One million NOK is $185,270.58

377 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:30:40am

re: #368 Sergey Romanov

darthstar, if you're reading, could you set these persons straight? These things should be nipped in the bud.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I don't normally cross-post, but I made an exception for that first link:

Prominently featured? There are two

front page articles calling out that right-wing extremist and his conservative American allies. I know, I know, "LGF is a wingnut blog." That hasn't been true for well over a year - people change, they "evolve" (just as President Obama is doing on gay marriage) if you will.

Christ, you sound like a Pamela Geller sockpuppet. Chill the fuck out.

378 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:31:29am

Good morning lizards.

Am I reading the news right...Fjordman was the Oslo bomber and shooter?

379 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:31:49am

re: #375 Thanos

I'm going to say that he was radical then, he just hid it well. I was among the first here to really call him out, when he wouldn't debate with me on the import of individual rights and protections against the masses. He knew what was coming next and he couldn't defend it without a big reveal.

I'm going to have to take your word for it. I wasn't there for that fight, as it happened before I joined the blog.

380 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:31:54am

re: #375 Thanos

I still remember all the piling on from the fellow "anti-jihadists" and GOV types who Charles had not yet banned.

381 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:32:35am

I'd love it if President Obama agreed to have the networks broadcast this morning's negotiations live, but forgot to tell Boehner and McConnell.

382 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:32:55am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards.

Am I reading the news right...Fjordman was the Oslo bomber and shooter?

no, why would you say that?

383 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:33:25am

re: #375 Thanos

I'm going to say that LGF was comparatively radical back then, and do with it what you will. I've been paying attention back then, and that's what I saw.

Which makes Charles' efforts all the more admirable - he managed to gradually get out of the right-wing clique at a cost to himself, and long before many other people "saw the light".

384 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:33:32am

Nut calls police to voice support for the terror attack, police raid home:
[Link: mobil.smaalenene.no...]


There was a man who called us this morning to give support to what had happened in Oslo. He is registered with various weapons and that is why we went to see him, says Leif Holten who is operations manager in Follo police.

He confirmed that the man is an acquaintance of the police and psychiatry. He will be 50-years from Hobøl.

- There is no other connection to what has happened, except that this man has given verbal support to what happened in Oslo.

385 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:33:33am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards.

Am I reading the news right...Fjordman was the Oslo bomber and shooter?

No.

386 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:33:38am

re: #376 jaunte

One million NOK is $185,270.58

Ah, that's a decent amount of money. I supose we'll probably have to wait for his trial to find out who he was financing.

387 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:33:56am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards.

Am I reading the news right...Fjordman was the Oslo bomber and shooter?

Speculative at best

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

388 kirkspencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:34:10am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards.

Am I reading the news right...Fjordman was the Oslo bomber and shooter?

No. There was a site that initially indicated he was, but it was rapidly disproven.

389 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:34:23am

re: #387 sattv4u2

Not true at best ;)

390 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:35:00am

re: #389 Sergey Romanov

Not true at best ;)

When has that ever halted speculation!?!?

391 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:35:15am

re: #382 Thanos

no, why would you say that?

OK, I just pulled up LGF and saw this on the last thread:

The latest reports coming in from Norwegian sources say the man arrested in the bombing and massacre in Oslo, Anders Behring Breivik, has ties to right wing extremism and does not appear to be linked to Islamic terrorism.

...Anders Behring Breivik has previously driven the blog Fjordman and later for many years been a writer for the anti-Muslim and Zionist bloggers Gates of Vienna and Jihad Watch, under the pseudonym Fjordman.

392 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:36:10am

re: #383 Sergey Romanov

I'm going to say that LGF was comparatively radical back then, and do with it what you will. I've been paying attention back then, and that's what I saw.

Which makes Charles' efforts all the more admirable - he managed to gradually get out of the right-wing clique at a cost to himself, and long before many other people "saw the light".

I treated this place like HotAir/AtlasShrugs back then. Wouldn't come near it with someone else's browser. Sometimes, people evolve...and sites evolve.

393 What, me worry?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:36:15am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning lizards.

Am I reading the news right...Fjordman was the Oslo bomber and shooter?

The paper that printed that retracted it, somewhat. For one, apparently the name is used by many others and Fjordman (the one we know) was posting at the time the shooter was arrested. It's likely not him. But there appears some question if they knew each other.

394 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:36:33am

re: #386 Killgore Trout

Unless he robbed a bank, it seems like an unusually high amount for a fake farmer to accumulate.

395 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:36:48am

Played dead for over one hour
[Link: www.nrk.no...]


She lay perfectly still and played dead for at least one hour of dead bodies above and below it. Read Prableen Kaur very strong history of carnage on Utøya.

396 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:37:00am

re: #390 sattv4u2

When has that ever halted speculation!?!?

Oh, the truth can halt the rumor mill, but only on Wednesdays that come at the end of the week.

397 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:37:14am

re: #383 Sergey Romanov

No doubt, I remember the time I defended Spencer on other blogs for four hours. That was before I found out about his direct connections with Serbian genocide denialists, Eurofascists, and others of the same ilk. Once that was discovered it was a real eye opener for me & I retracted everything.

The thing I will say is that the main lizards have always been empirical - show them where something is clearly wrong and they will align with the good.

398 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:37:16am

re: #388 kirkspencer

No. There was a site that initially indicated he was, but it was rapidly disproven.

I'm glad it's not true. I would hate to see a former lizard, no matter why he was banned from here, be involved in something like that.

Whew.

399 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:37:36am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I just pulled up LGF and saw this on the last thread:

From what I can tell the killer was such a fan of Fjordy's that he hinted in online discussions that it was his secret identity.

400 What, me worry?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:37:44am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

OK, I just pulled up LGF and saw this on the last thread:

Here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

401 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:38:32am

re: #399 Killgore Trout

From what I can tell the killer was such a fan of Fjordy's that he hinted in online discussions that it was his secret identity.

I think that neo-Nazi website is just making shit up, as Nazis are wont to.

402 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:38:33am

I used to drive a levy until I became a fjordman.///

403 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:38:56am

I have to admit, I don't tweet or follow anyones feed but there have been quite a few times over the last couple of years that it's been pretty handy:

[Link: twitter.com...]

404 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:39:04am

re: #391 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, and if you read the rest you will discover that that's one blog, and it's unsubstantiated. If you read the threads below it you will see that it's definitely not Fjordfucker, and you see that Charles took pains to point out that it's unsubstantiated. Have some coffee and catch up ....

406 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:40:34am

re: #405 Killgore Trout
Link did not work. :(

407 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:41:49am

re: #406 PhillyPretzel

Link did not work. :(

Top right: continue to site. Click there.

408 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:42:24am

re: #406 PhillyPretzel

Link did not work. :(

Takes awhile

There was a countdown clock "continue to site in 'x' seconds

409 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:42:30am

re: #398 NJDhockeyfan

Agreed

410 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:42:37am

re: #405 Killgore Trout
It worked the 2nd time. gee the heat is getting to the internet. Awful photos.

411 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:43:11am

re: #404 Thanos

Yes, and if you read the rest you will discover that that's one blog, and it's unsubstantiated. If you read the threads below it you will see that it's definitely not Fjordfucker, and you see that Charles took pains to point out that it's unsubstantiated. Have some coffee and catch up ...

I'm got to the office. Forgive me for not reading the thread. I just saw the front of the thread and panicked. I just had to ask.

412 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:43:52am

bbiab

413 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:43:58am

re: #411 NJDhockeyfan

I'm got to the office

trying a new language?

/

414 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:10am

re: #383 Sergey Romanov


I was surprised, in reading that old thread, how many people were adamantly anti-fascist and against the idea of allying themselves in any way with Vlaams Belang and the rest.

However, the reason it's a surprise is because those on the right these days seem to find little problem in those alliances.

415 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:11am

re: #412 Cannadian Club Akbar

bbiab

damn! must you?

416 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:12am

re: #400 marjoriemoon

Here.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thank you for the clarification :)

417 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:34am

re: #413 sattv4u2

I'm got to the office

trying a new language?

/

Too much bourbon last night.

418 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:42am

re: #413 sattv4u2

I'm got to the office

trying a new language?

/

It's hard to talk, let alone type, with your secretary's breast in your mouth.

419 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:53am

re: #417 NJDhockeyfan

Too much bourbon last night.

or not enough this morning!

420 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:44:58am

re: #413 sattv4u2
Its nickname is sans coffee.

421 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:45:00am

re: #417 NJDhockeyfan

Too much bourbon last night.

No such thing.

422 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:45:32am

re: #411 NJDhockeyfan

I'm got to the office. Forgive me for not reading the thread. I just saw the front of the thread and panicked. I just had to ask.

Not Fjordman, 'just' someone who shared and promoted his ideology.

As Darthstar said above, you really wouldn't be able to deport the Muslims from Europe without shooting a lot of them, and shooting the 'leftists' that would stand up for them. Violence has always been behind those sorts of ideas.

423 kirkspencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:45:44am

re: #421 darthstar

No such thing.

Only if there's none left today.

424 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:45:51am

re: #418 darthstar

It's hard to talk, let alone type, with your secretary's breast in your mouth.

Nahh,, I can multi task!

425 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:46:17am

Wow. Just catching up on all the news. What a fucked up world.

426 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:46:19am

re: #419 sattv4u2

or not enough this morning!

I'm saving room for the beer later this evening. We are going to a German restaurant tonight.

427 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:46:50am

re: #411 NJDhockeyfan

NP friend, it was a lot of people's first reaction. The problem is that the "anti-jihadi" blogs are all trying to pretend that Charles is directly accusing Fjordjerk of being the terrorist, which he clearly is not.

On the other hand the more you read about this guy the more you see the influence of that hateblogger axis's thoughts and xenophobic philosophies. He also wanted to write a book like Fjordman's, which he directly praised.

428 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:47:50am

re: #422 Obdicut

Not Fjordman, 'just' someone who shared and promoted his ideology.

As Darthstar Mich-again said above, you really wouldn't be able to deport the Muslims from Europe without shooting a lot of them, and shooting the 'leftists' that would stand up for them. Violence has always been behind those sorts of ideas.

T'warn't me.

429 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:48:18am

re: #427 Thanos

NP friend, it was a lot of people's first reaction. The problem is that the "anti-jihadi" blogs are all trying to pretend that Charles is directly accusing Fjordjerk of being the terrorist, which he clearly is not.

On the other hand the more you read about this guy the more you see the influence of that hateblogger axis's thoughts and xenophobic philosophies. He also wanted to write a book like Fjordman's, which he directly praised.

After reading Breivik's comments I would no longer be surprised, if Fjordman himself ever did such a thing.

430 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:48:21am

re: #428 darthstar

T'warn't me.

Whoopsies. Thanks for the catch.

431 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:48:56am

To those who whine about Charles posting about these nutty blogs; GoV, Atlas Shrugs, etc...

This is why it matters. Kudos to Charles for trying to get the word out about these nuts for years, and deepest sympathies to the people of Norway.

432 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:50:55am

re: #425 iceweasel

Good to see you! We're hardly ever on at the same time any more. Hope you & Jimmah have been well.

433 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:51:05am

re: #429 Sergey Romanov

That's the scariest thing about this -- he writes just like all those other commenters at the Jihadwatch axis, he seems pretty mild compared to some. He could be any one of them.

That shithead vlad is trying to still spin it as a false flag or someone who got indoctrinated and used kind of conspiracy. The stench of madness is roaring up the flue over there.

434 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:51:10am

re: #431 McSpiff

To those who whine about Charles posting about these nutty blogs; GoV, Atlas Shrugs, etc...

This is why it matters. Kudos to Charles for trying to get the word out about these nuts for years, and deepest sympathies to the people of Norway.

Exactly. I know a lot of people complain but it is important stuff that needs to be exposed.

435 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:52:24am

re: #432 CuriousLurker

Good to see you! We're hardly ever on at the same time any more. Hope you & Jimmah have been well.

Hey CL! I was just thinking about you. Always a pleasure to see you. :) Jimmah and I are great, thanks for asking-- hope all is well with you.

436 What, me worry?  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:52:36am

This was an "anti-jihad" blog before the word was even invented. There's no denying that, but when the neo-Nazi influence started being noticed in those euro groups, LGF changed dramatically.

Many here, including Thanos fought hard against Fjordman and the rest of the morons who defended him. F tried to convince Charles that he was right, countless posts, hours of his arguing that whomever decided to fight the Muslims, whether they had a violent past or not, was a worthy cause and we didn't buy it.

Fjordman's posts have been scrapped here and they should be. He was nuts. I could never read through those 5000 word posts anyway.

437 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:53:23am

re: #433 Thanos

That's the scariest thing about this -- he writes just like all those other commenters at the Jihadwatch axis, he seems pretty mild compared to some. He could be any one of them.

That shithead vlad is trying to still spin it as a false flag or someone who got indoctrinated and used kind of conspiracy. The stench of madness is roaring up the flue over there.

I don't read that stuff but from what y'all have been describing the bolded part sounds like it may be pretty much true. He may have indeed been indoctrinated and used to take the action he did - by them.

438 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:54:00am

Drudge and Fox news have been popularizing Alex Jones for a while now. Here's a comment from Pam's site.....

Robin Shadowes said...

They also have interesting conspiracy theories on Infowars and Prisonplanet. I have to admit this smells NWO all over it. Remember these scumbags wiped out the polish government little over a year ago in a "plane accident". They are definetively evil and ruthless enough to do something like this just to take control over this sovereign nation that is NOT a member of communist EU.

439 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:54:08am

re: #435 iceweasel

Hey CL! I was just thinking about you. Always a pleasure to see you. :) Jimmah and I are great, thanks for asking-- hope all is well with you.

I'm doing well, thanks. Please give Jimmah my regards as well.

440 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:54:47am

Ah well
Chores to do (cleaning doggy nose art off the French Doors) and errands to run

441 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:56:01am

Interview: Norway shooting witness
Ali Esbati tells Al Jazeera what he saw and experienced during shooting at camp on Utoya island.
[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

w/video of the camp

442 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:56:26am

re: #440 sattv4u2

Yes, me too, I have to replace a gasket in the garbage disposer, wish me luck all.

443 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:56:49am

re: #442 Thanos

Yes, me too, I have to replace a gasket in the garbage disposer, wish me luck all.

Please unplug before sticking your hand in!

444 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:57:20am

re: #441 RogueOne

Interview: Norway shooting witness
Ali Esbati tells Al Jazeera what he saw and experienced during shooting at camp on Utoya island.
[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

w/video of the camp

I read one eyewitness account earlier today. I don't think I can bear to read any more of them. Just absolutely heart-rending.

445 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:57:29am

re: #438 Killgore Trout

"So desirable, yet prickles", as the Russian saying goes. "Smells NWO", admits the chimp, and immediately engages in the wildest conspiracy theory about "wiping out" of the Polish govt.

446 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:57:47am

re: #442 Thanos
Turn the power to the disposal then work on it.

447 sattv4u2  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:58:20am

re: #443 McSpiff

Please unplug before sticking your hand in!

dammit ,,, you just ruined his product liability case !!!

//

448 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:59:24am

re: #444 iceweasel

I read one eyewitness account earlier today. I don't think I can bear to read any more of them. Just absolutely heart-rending.

That poor girl who pretended to be dead? Rough story. She's going to need some serious help.

449 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 7:59:56am

re: #444 iceweasel

I read one eyewitness account earlier today. I don't think I can bear to read any more of them. Just absolutely heart-rending.

Absolutely sickening. The only thing that keeps running through my mind is "its just not fair. "

450 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:03:10am

Apparently he wrote a thick book. And here he explains his philosophy:

The book is called, by the way 2083 and is in English, 1100 pages).
To sums up the Vienna school of thought:
- Cultural Conservatism (anti-multiculturalism)
- Against Islamization
- Anti-racist
- Anti-authoritarian (resistance to all authoritarian ideologies of hate)
- Pro-Israel/forsvarer of non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries
- Defender of the cultural aspects of Christianity
- To reveal the Eurabia project and the Frankfurt School (ny-marxisme/kulturmarxisme/
multikulturalisme)
- Is not an economic policy and can collect everything from socialists to capitalists

Anti-racist, huh.

451 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:03:32am

I haven't watched any tv coverage. According to the other story on Al-jazeera supposedly there's video of it on one of the Norway news sites. Are the cable news programs showing that kind of stuff?

452 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:04:04am

re: #449 McSpiff

Absolutely sickening. The only thing that keeps running through my mind is "its just not fair. "

Me too.

453 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:04:42am

re: #449 McSpiff

Absolutely sickening. The only thing that keeps running through my mind is "its just not fair. "

But that's the way it is. Good people get murdered by fanatics sometimes. If you don't want it to happen:

A. Work against the fanatics. (you already do this)

B. Get yourself a means of self-defense.

I know that sounds cold, but I feel bluntness has its uses sometimes.

454 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:04:52am

This adds more weight to my argument about arresting men with douche beards.

455 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:04:52am

re: #449 McSpiff

Absolutely sickening. The only thing that keeps running through my mind is "its just not fair. "

Those sure aren't the words that come to my mind. Here is a good-looking guy of some wealth who decides to flush his life and the lives of 84+ people and their families right down the crapper. For what? What the hell could possibly be justification in even the sickest minds to do something like this?

456 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:05:27am

re: #453 Dark_Falcon

They only let you take a gun to summer camp if it's an NRA event.

457 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:07:34am

I just found this article (translated) about the scumbag killer:

The hate-filled mind of Anders B.

On the Internet there are traces of the alleged assassin of Oslo and Utoya that show what other motives may be driven as the historical atrocity.

Apparently, the 32-year-old, a militant opponent of multiculturalism, an advocate of nationalist ideology, Islam and Communist-hater, a fundamentalist Christian. He hates Norwegian media, the ruling party and fears a Muslim alienation. At least that is a native of Oslo alleged gunman and bomber presented on the right-wing Internet platform "document.no".

Anders B. left there between September 2009 and October 2010 for comments and discussions that illustrate his worldview. He had studied, founded a company and earned millions, Anders B. told about himself. The money he used to "being able to finance politically active life".

"There is great political upheaval in Western Europe at this moment," wrote B., "The cultural conservative movement is growing at a record pace and there is a consolidation process in all Western European countries. Everyone can contribute and every contribution counts."

He himself, as he writes, had been active for years in Norway "FRP", the right-wing Progress Party. The "FrP" emerged in the 70s from a protest movement against the tax system and represents primarily a limitation of immigration, the strengthening of civil rights, reduction of government social programs and the privatization of state enterprises.

The multi-cultural thought and Marxist politicians have undermined the Norwegian culture, says Anders B.

Europe is threatened, especially that Islam is a threat to national identity. "Just call me a country where Muslims live peacefully with non-Muslims without having to perform jihad against the infidels?" He wrote. "How many thousands of Europeans have died, how many hundreds of thousands of European women raped and robbed millions before you understand that do not work multiculturalism and Islam?"

So bombing and shooting men, women and children justify his beliefs? What an asshole.

458 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:09:28am

re: #450 Sergey Romanov

Apparently he wrote a thick book. And here he explains his philosophy:

Anti-racist, huh.

Somewhat funny, as Vienna has normally been a multi-cultural city. It certainly was under the Hapsburg's rule.

459 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:09:46am

re: #453 Dark_Falcon

But that's the way it is. Good people get murdered by fanatics sometimes. If you don't want it to happen:

A. Work against the fanatics. (you already do this)

B. Get yourself a means of self-defense.

I know that sounds cold, but I feel bluntness has its uses sometimes.

I don't disagree in the least, in the general case. But it seems to me that this guy was smart enough to get around any attempts at self-defense. Breaking this down a little more...

1) Can't shoot your way out of a car bombing. Either you're a causality or not.

2) An attack on a youth camp, dressed as a cop. Not many trained, adult shooters are going to take down a cop without significant delay. Now add kids to the mix and it becomes VERY tricky. Especially with the reports of him beckoning the kids to him.

460 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:10:26am

re: #456 RogueOne

They only let you take a gun to summer camp if it's an NRA event.

Not disputing that. I meant it only as a broad principal.

461 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:10:44am

re: #459 McSpiff

I will agree that the causality count would have been lower however.

462 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:12:19am

re: #461 McSpiff

I will agree that the causality count would have been lower however.

Also would been lower if he had been unable to get those guns. It's all moot.

463 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:13:08am

re: #462 Obdicut

Also would been lower if he had been unable to get those guns. It's all moot.

True. "If only your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle. "

464 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:13:59am

re: #459 McSpiff

I don't disagree in the least, in the general case. But it seems to me that this guy was smart enough to get around any attempts at self-defense. Breaking this down a little more...

1) Can't shoot your way out of a car bombing. Either you're a causality or not.

2) An attack on a youth camp, dressed as a cop. Not many trained, adult shooters are going to take down a cop without significant delay. Now add kids to the mix and it becomes VERY tricky. Especially with the reports of him beckoning the kids to him.

You're right of course. That's why scumbags sometimes impersonate police officers: Even (or maybe especially) the best trained people are not going to initiate a hostile act at someone they think is a cop. Your point about area-fire weapons is well made, and I have the same attitude. Other than keeping alert, there's not much to be done. If a bomb goes off or artillery lands near you, your number is simply up.

465 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:14:04am

re: #462 Obdicut

Also would been lower if he had been unable to get those guns. It's all moot.

Or the fertilizer...

Bomb Suspect Bought 6 Tons of Fertilizer

466 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:15:11am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

Or the fertilizer...

Bomb Suspect Bought 6 Tons of Fertilizer

Another good argument for organic farming. ;)

467 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:15:25am

re: #466 allegro

Another good argument for organic farming. ;)

LOL!

468 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:16:15am

re: #465 NJDhockeyfan

Or the fertilizer...

Bomb Suspect Bought 6 Tons of Fertilizer

did he buy it all at one time, or in smaller batches? He didn't use it all in one bomb, so is any of it missing?

469 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:17:12am

Morning all.

More on Norway's Tim McVeigh from CNN:

Official sources and social media indicate that Breivik might be a right-wing Christian fundamentalist who may have had an issue with Norway's multi-cultural society. The attack may have been politically motivated, one official said.

What a douche.

470 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:17:46am

re: #464 Dark_Falcon

You're right of course. That's why scumbags sometimes impersonate police officers: Even (or maybe especially) the best trained people are not going to initiate a hostile act at someone they think is a cop. Your point about area-fire weapons is well made, and I have the same attitude. Other than keeping alert, there's not much to be done. If a bomb goes off or artillery lands near you, your number is simply up.

I do think you can teach your kids what to do in that general type of situation. Importance of staying calm, avoiding getting trampled, etc. I know my dad did. Applies to everything from bombings/shooting to natural disasters and rock concerts.

471 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:18:54am

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

did he buy it all at one time, or in smaller batches? He didn't use it all in one bomb, so is any of it missing?

From the Time article...

Oddny Estenstad, a spokeswoman for agricultural material supplier Felleskjopet, confirmed Saturday that the suspect in custody purchased six tons of fertilizer 10 weeks ago.

I heard they found other unexploded bombs earlier yesterday but I haven't heard an update on that since.

472 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:19:43am

I noticed most of the comments were old. Has anyone started a compilation of anything he's written in the last year?

473 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:20:16am

re: #450 Sergey Romanov

- Pro-Israel

Fuck, just what Israel doesn't need is supporters like this.

474 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:20:46am

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

That's nice. At least he's a Christian and won't burn in hell forever after he dies.

475 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:22:22am

re: #474 darthstar

That's nice. At least he's a Christian and won't burn in hell forever after he dies.

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

476 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:22:38am

re: #474 darthstar

And since he's a Norwegian, he'll be out of jail in his early fifties. (Unless they write some new law).

477 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:23:36am

re: #476 jaunte

And since he's a Norwegian, he'll be out of jail in his early fifties. (Unless they write some new law).

Our Norwegian poster wrote about indefinite detention, so it appears they do have something on the books for these extreme situations.

478 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:23:55am

re: #474 darthstar

That's nice. At least he's a Christian and won't burn in hell forever after he dies.

Like Islamist terrorists, I think this Anders fellow is in for a shock when he dies. He'll learn what God really thinks of terrorist scum, the he'll get pitched screaming into the pits of Hell.

479 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:23:59am

re: #477 McSpiff

I hadn't seen that. Good.

480 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:24:12am

re: #476 jaunte

And since he's a Norwegian, he'll be out of jail in his early fifties. (Unless they write some new law).

He might find out what a shiv is before he reaches fifty.

481 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:24:49am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

I agree with the sentiment, but that's close to a "No True Scotsman" line.

482 RogueOne  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:24:56am

Gotta run and get the day started. Enjoy it folks

483 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:25:17am

Garbage Disposer splashguard gaskets: easier to replace than I thought. This was not even hard.

484 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:25:55am

re: #479 jaunte

I hadn't seen that. Good.

From wikipedia

485 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:26:02am

re: #483 Thanos
great.

486 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:26:25am

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

I agree with the sentiment, but that's close to a "No True Scotsman" line.

This shitbag is as much a Christian as Fred Phelps. Thank God Phelps hasn't moved on to murder.

487 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:27:08am

re: #485 PhillyPretzel

great.

Still have to leak test etc. off to do that now...

488 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:28:51am

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

I agree with the sentiment, but that's close to a "No True Scotsman" line.

Hopefully we'll get a better sense of his religion. As others have said, something like Christian Identity is likely. Which as many here know, has very little to do with actual Christianity.

489 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:28:53am

re: #486 NJDhockeyfan

This shitbag is as much a Christian as Fred Phelps. Thank God Phelps hasn't moved on to murder.

He is indeed not a proper Christian, that's a fact.

As for Phelps, given his habit of insulting dead soldiers, he'd not last 10 minutes if he turned to violence. The veterans groups who counter-protest him are composed of men far more skilled at violence than any terrorist.

490 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:30:11am

re: #489 Dark_Falcon

He is indeed not a proper Christian, that's a fact.

As for Phelps, given his habit of insulting dead soldiers, he'd not last 10 minutes if he turned to violence. The veterans groups who counter-protest him are composed of men far more skilled at violence than any terrorist.

I'd love to see Phelps slip up (possibly literally) and initiate physical contact with someone at one of his 'protests'.

491 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:30:33am

I noticed the dog food bowls were empty this morning and I hate grocery shopping on Saturday mornings so I made us all some oatmeal. Man, they went nuts for it! One especially loved it, licking the bowls over and over, looking at me with his "Gimme more, Mom! Pleeeaaase! Moremoremore!"

Who knew?

492 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:31:16am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

Sure they do. People of all faiths are capable of doing terrible things. You just can't judge an entire faith by the actions of a few of its followers - even if there are thousands of them who do this kind of shit (see Roeder, McVeigh, bin Laden, KSM, etc.)...some are Christian, some are Muslim...it's all the same.

We simply need to accept that this possibility exists within our own communities and religious organizations and address people who espouse extremist rhetoric before they poison the minds of our kids...otherwise, they could grow up to have irrational hatred of people of different faiths/colors and do stupid shit.

493 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:32:04am

re: #491 allegro

I noticed the dog food bowls were empty this morning...

The blackbirds keep stealing the dog food out of the bowl on the front porch and shit all over everything.

I hate fucking blackbirds.

494 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:32:18am

re: #490 McSpiff

I'd love to see Phelps slip up (possibly literally) and initiate physical contact with someone at one of his 'protests'.

He likely wouldn't be badly hurt even then, since he's an old man. Now, one of his sons would be a different matter. They'd likely find out the truth of the Marine Corps saying "No better friend, No worse enemy."

495 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:32:22am

re: #478 Dark_Falcon

Like Islamist terrorists, I think this Anders fellow is in for a shock when he dies. He'll learn what God really thinks of terrorist scum, the he'll get pitched screaming into the pits of Hell.

Once saved you can't be unsaved. The Baptists taught me that. You keep salvation forever, like herpes.

496 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:33:10am

The MSM has picked up the killer's connections to the EDL and SIOE. Pam and Spencer's phones are ringing off the hook this morning.

497 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:34:09am

re: #496 Killgore Trout

The MSM has picked up the killer's connections to the EDL and SIOE. Pam and Spencer's phones are ringing off the hook this morning.

They have no shame. I don't expect them to back down no matter what comes out.

498 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:34:47am

re: #493 NJDhockeyfan

The blackbirds keep stealing the dog food out of the bowl on the front porch and shit all over everything.

I hate fucking blackbirds.

As far as the bird know, you're putting the food out for them. That makes them buddies of your for life.

499 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:35:32am

re: #495 darthstar

Once saved you can't be unsaved. The Baptists taught me that. You keep salvation forever, like herpes.

That's not true. Whether you go to Heaven or Hell is not finalized till you die. Someone could accept Jesus's love sincerely, but later fall prey to hate and reject His teaching with acts of violent hate, as this scumbag did.

500 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:36:09am

re: #497 iceweasel

They have no shame. I don't expect them to back down no matter what comes out.

Then they'll see a decline in membership and influence. Still to the good.

501 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:36:12am

re: #498 allegro

As far as the birds know, you're putting the food out for them. That makes them buddies of yours for life.

Having sss problems this morning.

502 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:36:39am

re: #499 Dark_Falcon

That's not true. Whether you go to Heaven or Hell is not finalized till you die. Someone could accept Jesus's love sincerely, but later fall prey to hate and reject His teaching with acts of violent hate, as this scumbag did.

That depends on your version of Christianity. See Confessions of a Justified Sinner, for example.

503 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:38:04am

re: #500 Dark_Falcon

Then they'll see a decline in membership and influence. Still to the good.

I hope you are right. Still can't help wondering how many other nutjobs are reading their shite, thinking, Hey this guy had the right idea.

504 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:39:54am

re: #499 Dark_Falcon

That's not true. Whether you go to Heaven or Hell is not finalized till you die. Someone could accept Jesus's love sincerely, but later fall prey to hate and reject His teaching with acts of violent hate, as this scumbag did.

I'm sorry, I don't want to get into a theological debate over the official level of sincerity when accepting love as insurance against eternal post-mortem hellfire and damnation. It all just seems so selfishly reassuring to me.

505 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:40:04am

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

He likely wouldn't be badly hurt even then, since he's an old man. Now, one of his sons would be a different matter. They'd likely find out the truth of the Marine Corps saying "No better friend, No worse enemy."

I was on the Wasp when it was here for the RCN Centennial. They had the usual Marine Corps display on board. All the tanks, artillery, APCs, etc. But it was the men that were truly intimidating. There was a captain that basically appointed himself our tour guide. Absolutely awesome guy, showed us everything, had his men over talking to us. Complete behemoth. Just a towering monster of a man. A cause would need to be pretty damn near and dear to my heart before I'd ever consider taking on a beach full of guys like him.

506 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:40:10am

re: #502 iceweasel

That depends on your version of Christianity. See Confessions of a Justified Sinner, for example.

I've always had a Catholic understanding of theology (gained in high school), and I freely admit it influences my thinking.

507 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:40:19am

re: #499 Dark_Falcon

That's not true. Whether you go to Heaven or Hell is not finalized till you die. Someone could accept Jesus's love sincerely, but later fall prey to hate and reject His teaching with acts of violent hate, as this scumbag did.

Calvinists would disagree.

508 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:40:35am

Leak test failed, I was hoping to save the old gasket but that's not going to fly. Off to the store

509 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:40:41am

re: #502 iceweasel

That depends on your version of Christianity. See Confessions of a Justified Sinner, for example.

And how many of them are just doing what god told them to do (in their sick little minds)? How much evil do we watching unfold day after day in the name of someone's god(s)? Evil against gays, women, unbelievers, etc. etc. Blowing people up and shooting more than one at a time (see Tiller) is more extreme, but the evil in the name of religion is an every day thing.

510 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:41:31am

re: #504 darthstar

I'm sorry, I don't want to get into a theological debate over the official level of sincerity when accepting love as insurance against eternal post-mortem hellfire and damnation. It all just seems so selfishly reassuring to me.

Works for me. I don't enjoy theology debates either.

511 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:41:55am

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

I've always had a Catholic understanding of theology (gained in high school), and I freely admit it influences my thinking.

Catholics hold that you're saved not merely by faith but by good works. As McSpiff points out, Calvinists for one group do not.*

*Some Calvinists would disagree.

512 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:42:31am

re: #507 McSpiff

Calvinists would disagree.

Yes, they would.

513 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:42:45am

re: #506 Dark_Falcon

I've always had a Catholic understanding of theology (gained in high school), and I freely admit it influences my thinking.

Nothing wrong with that either. My calvinist comment was just a little ribbing. What you posted would be the mainstream christian view, at least in my experience.

514 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:42:56am

re: #509 allegro

And how many of them are just doing what god told them to do (in their sick little minds)? How much evil do we watching unfold day after day in the name of someone's god(s)? Evil against gays, women, unbelievers, etc. etc. Blowing people up and shooting more than one at a time (see Tiller) is more extreme, but the evil in the name of religion is an every day thing.

It's horrifying to see that these groups that Charles tracks here could influence someone to do this.

515 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:43:09am

re: #510 Dark_Falcon

Works for me. I don't enjoy theology debates either.

I didn't say I didn't enjoy them...I find them entertaining as hell! I just don't have time to engage in one right now...Cheers.

516 Charleston Chew  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:43:11am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

I get your point but the problem is that much of the past 2000 years of history involves Christians doing "non-Christian" things.

517 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:45:04am

re: #516 Charleston Chew

I get your point but the problem is that much of the past 2000 years of history involves Christians doing "non-Christian" things.

Yes but they don't do that anymore. Go in to any Baptist, Catholic, etc. church and try to find some support for mass murder. I doubt you will find any.

518 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:46:41am

re: #511 iceweasel

Catholics hold that you're saved not merely by faith but by good works. As McSpiff points out, Calvinists for one group do not.*

*Some Calvinists would disagree.

“Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me.” He added, after a pause, looking me full in the face: “That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave”

General Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson

519 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:46:57am

re: #517 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but they don't do that anymore. Go in to any Baptist, Catholic, etc. church and try to find some support for mass murder. I doubt you will find any.

Am I allowed to go to the Balkans about 15 years ago?

520 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:47:05am

re: #517 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but they don't do that anymore. Go in to any Baptist, Catholic, etc. church and try to find some support for mass murder. I doubt you will find any.

Go into any mosque or synagogue and try to find support for mass murder. You won't. Extremists aren't representative of their faiths...they're extremists.

521 darthstar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:47:29am

Time to take the dogs for a poop loop.
laters

522 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:47:42am

re: #517 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but they don't do that anymore.

It appears that one just did.

523 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:48:24am

re: #519 McSpiff

Am I allowed to go to the Balkans about 15 years ago?

If you can find a time machine, then yes.

524 Charleston Chew  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:49:08am

re: #519 McSpiff

Am I allowed to go to the Balkans about 15 years ago?

Nope. History doesn't count. Christians are totally peace-loving starting... NOW!

525 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:49:16am

re: #520 darthstar

Go into most mosques or any synagogue and try to find support for mass murder. You won't. Extremists aren't representative of their faiths...they're extremists.

Sorry, edit needed. Some mosques do indeed openly support Islamist terror. Most do not, but its been documented, both here and in the UK. In the UK it was the Guardian that did the documenting.

526 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:50:46am

re: #497 iceweasel

They have no shame. I don't expect them to back down no matter what comes out.

Of course not. That's why Geller's interviews are going to sink her. Even Fox isn't going to give her a softball interview at this point. He upcoming Ground Zero Mosque protest is going to attract a lot of unwanted attention to her connections to the killer.

527 Shropshire_Slasher  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:52:01am

re: #493 NJDhockeyfan
They are good in a pie!

528 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:53:03am

re: #527 Shropshire_Slasher

They are good in a pie!

i need to get 24 of them.

529 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:54:02am

re: #496 Killgore Trout

The MSM has picked up the killer's connections to the EDL and SIOE. Pam and Spencer's phones are ringing off the hook this morning.

"We have no more information than... what has been found on [his] own websites, which is that it goes towards the right and that it is, so to speak, Christian fundamentalist." -- Police Chief Roger Andresen

530 Charleston Chew  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:55:22am

re: #517 NJDhockeyfan

Yes but they don't do that anymore. Go in to any Baptist, Catholic, etc. church and try to find some support for mass murder. I doubt you will find any.

Does this count?

Influential Right Wing Evangelist Supports Uganda's 'Principled Stand' on Executing Gays

531 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:55:25am

re: #524 Charleston Chew

Nope. History doesn't count. Christians are totally peace-loving starting... NOW!

History is only applicable when speaking of your opponents.

//

532 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:55:42am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

At the risk of sounding like the "true scotsman" schtick this is true. "By their fruits" & "Better a millstone" to remind of Jesus' teachings.

533 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:57:20am

re: #526 Killgore Trout

She's right back to the 'Jihad in America theme' this morning.

534 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:58:20am

re: #531 Gus 802

History is only applicable when speaking of your opponents.

//

Heh. Good one.
How goes it Gus?! Good to see you.

535 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:58:30am

I find 'christian' kind of rubbish as a label anyways. Not trying to offend anyone but its just way too broad to be useful to me. Now someone identifying themselves as Catholic or Baptist or what have you tends to give you an actual sense of their beliefs.

I also try not to reach too far back into history either. For the same reasons that I hate people saying "But the democrats supported slavery!" Generally try to keep my examples from the last 100 years or so.

Id consider the repression of Buddhists under Diem a valid example, but probably not the Inquisition. But then that wasn't sanctioned by Rome either and had a very strong ethnic dimension to it as well (as these things tend to have)...

It's all very tricky.

536 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 8:59:23am

re: #534 iceweasel

Heh. Good one.
How goes it Gus?! Good to see you.

Hi Ice. Was going to answer your email later. Just got up. It's going I suppose. Have to leave in about 3 weeks. Need a room mate? How's things by you?

537 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:00:37am

re: #536 Gus 802

Hi Ice. Was going to answer your email later. Just got up. It's going I suppose. Have to leave in about 3 weeks. Need a room mate? How's things by you?

The guest room is always open to you! Things are good here although I'm trying to wrap my head around this horrible news from Norway. Three weeks?

538 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:02:15am

I unfortunately just found this.

CuriousLurker retweeted it for all to see.

BryanJFischer Bryan Fischer
Perp in Norway: blond, blue-eyed "Christian," acc. to media. Makes him a bad Christian. If Muslim had done it, would make him a good Muslim.

539 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:02:51am

re: #537 iceweasel

The guest room is always open to you! Things are good here although I'm trying to wrap my head around this horrible news from Norway. Three weeks?

Yep, three weeks.

"Trailer for sale or rent. Room to let 50 cents..." 50 cents?

540 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:03:37am

re: #539 Gus 802

Yep, three weeks.

"Trailer for sale or rent. Room to let 50 cents..." 50 cents?

Yikes. Email me! And good luck. :(

541 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:05:57am

re: #538 ProLifeLiberal

Bryan Fischer is a bad Christian expert.

542 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:06:40am

re: #538 ProLifeLiberal

I unfortunately just found this.

CuriousLurker retweeted it for all to see.

That's not unfortunate. That's Bryan Fischer. Psychopath. So that statement is basically saying that if this was perpetrated by a Muslim the media would say that he was a "good Muslim"? These people never stop do they? Even with all of the evidence we have in thus far these stupid mother [deleted] are trying to blame the "liberal" media and somehow faulting Muslims.

543 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:08:29am

re: #542 Gus 802

That's not unfortunate. That's Bryan Fischer. Psychopath. So that statement is basically saying that if this was perpetrated by a Muslim the media would say that he was a "good Muslim"? These people never stop do they? Even with all of the evidence we have in thus far these stupid mother [deleted] are trying to blame the "liberal" media and somehow faulting Muslims.

The mental disconnect between myself and someone like that is staggering. I genuinely do not understand the thought process that leads to a tweet like that. I'm glad.

544 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:09:02am

Or that Muslims would see him, Anders Behring Breivik, if he were a Muslim, as a good Muslim. What they fuck is that all about?

545 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:09:30am

re: #537 iceweasel

The guest room is always open to you! Things are good here although I'm trying to wrap my head around this horrible news from Norway. Three weeks?

Hi Ice!
Hope today finds you well

546 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:09:38am

re: #538 ProLifeLiberal

I unfortunately just found this.

CuriousLurker retweeted it for all to see.

Next Fischer Tweet in reply to more news about this dirtbag:

Squirrel!

547 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:09:43am

re: #538 ProLifeLiberal

Wow, that guy is a serious hater. Tried to find the tweet but couldn't.

548 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:10:03am

According to Debbie Schlussel, it was supposed to be an atheist that would do something like this. Remember that BS?

549 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:10:22am

re: #544 Gus 802

Or that Muslims would see him, Anders Behring Breivik, if he were a Muslim, as a good Muslim. What they fuck is that all about?

It's about Fischer being a bigoted asshole and showing his ass in print for the whole world.

550 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:10:38am

James Fallows:
The Washington Post Owes the World an Apology for this Item

Seven Seventeen hours after the Post item went up, six sixteen hours after its claims were shown to be false and hysterical, it's still there, with no correction or apology.
551 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:12:15am

re: #547 BigPapa

Wow, that guy is a serious hater. Tried to find the tweet but couldn't.

Here you go.

Looks like Jaunte found it.

552 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:12:21am

re: #545 HoosierHoops

Hi Ice!
Hope today finds you well

Hey Hoops! i meant to email you earlier this week. How's it going? How's your maid? :-)

553 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:12:32am

Oh, found it. Nasty. Now he's a victim.

554 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:14:13am

re: #549 Dark_Falcon

It's about Fischer being a bigoted asshole and showing his ass in print for the whole world.

For sure. Even with all of the "evidence" in right now he searches deep inside his mind septic tank to find a way to lash out at Muslims. "Why I tells ya'. If he were a Muslim..." How pathetic.

555 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:14:35am

Oh Jaunte, nice zinger:

If anyone knows from personal experience who a bad Christian is, it's Bryan Fischer

556 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:14:39am

re: #553 BigPapa

Not just a victimized bigot, an economic expert too:

BryanJFischer Bryan Fischer
McConnell plan is to blame Obama for increase in debt ceiling. We don't want Obama blamed, we don't want debt ceiling raised at all.
557 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:15:00am

Why if Casey Anthony was a Muslim... Blah, blah, blah...

558 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:15:30am

Dymphna's now deleting comments over at GOV and using the "guilt through association" defense.

559 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:17:11am

re: #558 Thanos

Dymphna's now deleting comments over at GOV and using the "guilt through association" defense.

Probably also the one I saw last night: "Is he one of us?"

560 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:17:40am

It's not ironic that these turds, like Fischer, are displaying the very same hatred and psychosis that Anders Behring Breivik possesses. Bryan Fischer in fact would enjoy having a cup of coffee with Anders Behring Breivik and sharing a stimulating conversation. "My dinner with Andre Anders by Bryan Fischer. I had a great time!"

Partially "/".

561 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:18:01am

re: #209 Naso Tang

Good morning. Do you not sleep? Admittedly I had trouble doing so after this and your input is appreciated.

I notice that pictures of the people from the island do not appear to be native Norwegians. Is that just a sample coincidence or does it explain why he chose that target.

What was the nature of the camp? So far all I have seen is "summer camp" as a description.

I did not have much sleep last night; but eventually slept in the morning. It was a camp of the youth wing of the Labour party, a summer camp, with political discussions, but also games, joy, playing guitars around the campfire, things like that.

Victims are from all kinds of backgrounds, the Utøya victims only have in common that they live in Norway, that they are young and that they are politically active in the largest government party, the centre-left (by European standards) Labour Party.

562 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:18:08am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

Neither do Muslims?

563 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:19:24am

re: #552 iceweasel

Hey Hoops! i meant to email you earlier this week. How's it going? How's your maid? :-)

She is pretty awesome...The cost of living in Oklahoma is pretty cheap..I can afford some one to clean, Grocery shop and take care of Winston & I.
I really like and trust her..
I took her and her girlfriend to the Moose Lodge last night to Karaoke and drink beer...It was a lot of fun.. I don't think the local cowboys knew what to make of me with 2 ladies last night.. They don't need to know

564 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:19:36am

re: #550 jaunte

James Fallows:
The Washington Post Owes the World an Apology for this Item

Ah Jennifer Rubin.

565 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:20:07am

re: #555 BigPapa

Oh Jaunte, nice zinger:

If anyone knows from personal experience who a bad Christian is, it's Bryan Fischer

So why is he a major Christian leader? That would seem to negate claims of his being an extremist.

566 lawhawk  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:20:22am

Greets and saluts from the sweltering NYC metro area. Another scorcher here - which means that anything I was planning to do outside is going to be put off until it gets cooler.

Like many here, I too am trying to wrap my head around the horrific news in Norway and how this guy apparently murdered so many kids in cold blood. Some of the survivors played dead to avoid being killed as Breivik methodically went through the youth camp murdering people left and right.

Perhaps the scariest thing is that he doesn't appear to have done this with help - he acted alone. He managed to build and detonate a bomb, and then murder so many people on his own.

That's perhaps the worst case scenario for law enforcement the world over.

It's one thing to try and disrupt terror cells (someone can talk). But someone who has access to the materials as Breivik did (fertilizer for the bomb) and the willingness to act on whatever deranged worldview he had; and it seems that he was opposed to the Norwegian government's immigration position; and can carry out this attack on his own is a new and dangerous dimension that will make it more difficult down the road for security officials around the world.

567 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:20:23am

re: #558 Thanos

Dymphna's now deleting comments over at GOV and using the "guilt through association" defense.

I wonder if there is any soul searching going on among the crowd over there.

568 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:20:39am

re: #477 McSpiff

Our Norwegian poster wrote about indefinite detention, so it appears they do have something on the books for these extreme situations.

If he's considered a danger to society, he will stay in prison under "involuntary commitment". Indefinitely. It seems unlikely that he would not be considered a danger after fulfilling his prison term. Also, I expect he will be convicted of terrorism, and that's 30 years prison time, as far as I remember.

569 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:20:57am

re: #554 Gus 802

For sure. Even with all of the "evidence" in right now he searches deep inside his mind septic tank to find a way to lash out at Muslims. "Why I tells ya'. If he were a Muslim..." How pathetic.

What else can he do? If he just outright condemned the attacks and faulted the perpetrator (Good line for that: "He may call himself a Christian, but murdering people at random is completely at odds with the teaching of Christ."), he would have felt on the defensive. Fischer is the kind who always attacks, even when the situation does not warrant it. He's like the Knights Templar in that way.

570 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:21:07am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

You talking about Bryan Fischer?

571 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:21:31am

re: #558 Thanos

Dymphna's now deleting comments over at GOV and using the "guilt through association" defense.

Surprise! Possibly the workings of the biggest "memory hole" in the 101st's history!

//

572 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:23:25am

re: #570 BigPapa

You talking about Bryan Fischer?

I was reading his tweet and thinking that it really would be a good thing for him to find Christ.

no snark.

573 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:24:28am

re: #475 NJDhockeyfan

He's no Christian, he's an imposter. Christians don't do shit like that.

A woman from my home town in Western Norway - she know lives in the States - posted this on her Facebook profile. It's thought-provoking enough to repeat:

It is interesting to realize that I am getting utterly upset when they refer to Anders B Breivik as a Christian. This is not a Christian man. He is not representing my faith or my God. Now, I know how it must feel for a Muslim to be judged by the acts of mad men.

574 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:24:28am

I know this is long, but please bear bear with me. From the PDF of his writings at document.no:

Well, the essence is that Muslim boys learn æreskodekser, pride in their own religion, culture and cultural conservative values at home while Norwegian men have been feminized and teacher excessive tolerance. This makes them totally unprepared for what awaits them ...

Elsewhere in the document he also talks about women being raped by Muslims. Hold that thought as I'll come back to it.

The part about being "feminized" rang a bell. Milty and his whole thing about "gender feminists" or some such thing—he was carrying on this past week & earlier this month. He also spoke about Muslim conservative (family) values, basically saying that the West was being out-bred by Muslims and women needed to go back in their proper place (barefoot, pregnant, and properly obedient).

I can't find the exact quote, but at one point he said something to the effect of Western men being emasculated and that being the reason the Islamists (apparently "real men") weren't afraid to attack us. He seemed to admire the jihadis in a twisted way.

I think a few people pegged him as a Kahanist, but in going back just now and skimming through some of his comments I got a chill. This one specifically (#605) mentions Oslo and has a nasty video about all rape there supposedly involving non-Western men assaulting Norwegian women. Echoes of Breivik.

He bemoaned liberalism and the fact that "Charles is no longer in the same place politically" as he was after 9/11. Charles corrected him.

When Charles went on to excoriate him for the racist video, he again mentioned Norway (a TV station) and the supposed sexual assault campaign being waged against Europeans. This is a theme that also runs through Breivik's writings.

He hasn't been banned yet, but in retrospect the similarity between his comments and Breivik's ideology is pretty creepy, especially since he was referencing Norway in the days & weeks prior to this horrible attack.

I'm NOT saying he was in any way related to the events yesterday, but what I am saying is that it appear there are still some people here who have a similar mindset and are very sympathetic to Breivik's ideology. I think we need to be watchful.

575 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:24:33am

re: #568 oslogin

If he's considered a danger to society, he will stay in prison under "involuntary commitment". Indefinitely. It seems unlikely that he would not be considered a danger after fulfilling his prison term. Also, I expect he will be convicted of terrorism, and that's 30 years prison time, as far as I remember.

Similar system in Canada. Life in prison is 25 years IIRC unless you're declared a Dangerous Offender (which can and does occur after sentencing) in which case you never get out.

Interestingly as well, your original sentence does not need to be a life sentence to be declared a Dangerous Offender. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

576 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:24:53am

re: #563 HoosierHoops

She is pretty awesome...The cost of living in Oklahoma is pretty cheap..I can afford some one to clean, Grocery shop and take care of Winston & I.
I really like and trust her..
I took her and her girlfriend to the Moose Lodge last night to Karaoke and drink beer...It was a lot of fun.. I don't think the local cowboys knew what to make of me with 2 ladies last night.. They don't need to know

Fantastic. I love hearing your karaoke tales. I'm glad you and Winston are being taken care of!

577 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:25:07am

re: #558 Thanos

Dymphna's now deleting comments over at GOV and using the "guilt through association" defense.

Do you know what's she deleting? For all we know, AB might've been commenting there under a nickname. Would be good to find out before Google cache expires.

578 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:25:20am

re: #567 Winny Spencer

I wonder if there is any soul searching going on among the crowd over there.

Probably not much. Maybe with some of the readers but most most of them know what they're supporting at this point. The leaders like Fjordy have too much invested in anti-muslim activism to back out at this point.

579 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:25:38am

What's sad and kind of creepy is that whenever these things would happen I would sometimes say "who did it the Norwegians"? In this case it was one Norwegian. Which is not a condemnation of Norwegians -- obviously.

580 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:26:16am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

Thank you for the research. I had similar thoughts about some of his postings in light of this, but totally forgot about the Oslo connection.

581 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:27:49am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

Mighty nice post. I agree I see similarities in mindset.

582 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:27:52am

re: #580 McSpiff

Thank you for the research. I had similar thoughts about some of his postings in light of this, but totally forgot about the Oslo connection.

I don't think he's related either, mostly because he references being jewish several times, but I agree.. this guy(the actual killer) might be a lone wolf but there's a hell of a lot more people out there thinking the same way.

583 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:28:25am

re: #580 McSpiff

Thank you for the research. I had similar thoughts about some of his postings in light of this, but totally forgot about the Oslo connection.

I didn't remember it at all as I was pretty much ignoring his rantings. When I saw it just a few minutes ago it really creeped me out.

584 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:28:27am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

In regards to 'Milty': I'm sure that as investigations continue, we'll find Breivik had problems relating to women in a normal way.

Eyewitness to VG: - The first thing he did was shoot the cutest girl he saw
585 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:29:49am

A moronic commentator on GoV "proves" that Breivik isn't a true anti-jihadist:

"If Breivik (or whoever has been leaving comments in Breivik's name) were "one of us" (i.e, part of the counterjihad in any real sense), he would know by now never to use Little Green Footballs as a source of information. In a rather sick way, the joke is once again on Charles Johnson."

It is?

586 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:30:07am

re: #584 jaunte

In regards to 'Milty': I'm sure that as investigations continue, we'll find Breivik had problems relating to women in a normal way.

Indeed. Women are apparently a big part of the problem for these guys. Ugh.

587 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:31:14am

re: #586 CuriousLurker

Indeed. Women are apparently a big part of the problem for these guys. Ugh.

"gender feminist" is a big tip off. Milty strikes me as one of those MRAs (Men's Rights Activists) that like to troll feminist blogs.

588 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:32:17am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

He has a partial point. At least in my opinion, too many young men in the West do not learn proper male values. They thinking that being 'masculine' amounts to violent thuggery, which it does not. I also think that the rise of women is most of what has given western men an identity crisis. But differ in that I do not think the corrective is for women to be subservient again. I do believe that a certain deference by both sexes is more in order, coupled to the promotion of positive virtues for both (though in my ideal these would differ in places).

Again, not trying to justify sexism or bigotry. It's just my take on the point the loon was trying to make. Nothing can justify terrorist acts like the ones in Oslo.

589 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:33:07am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

I know this is long, but please bear bear with me. From the PDF of his writings at document.no:

Elsewhere in the document he also talks about women being raped by Muslims. Hold that thought as I'll come back to it.

The part about being "feminized" rang a bell. Milty and his whole thing about "gender feminists" or some such thing—he was carrying on this past week & earlier this month. He also spoke about Muslim conservative (family) values, basically saying that the West was being out-bred by Muslims and women needed to go back in their proper place (barefoot, pregnant, and properly obedient).

I can't find the exact quote, but at one point he said something to the effect of Western men being emasculated and that being the reason the Islamists (apparently "real men") weren't afraid to attack us. He seemed to admire the jihadis in a twisted way.

I think a few people pegged him as a Kahanist, but in going back just now and skimming through some of his comments I got a chill. This one specifically (#605) mentions Oslo and has a nasty video about all rape there supposedly involving non-Western men assaulting Norwegian women. Echoes of Breivik.

He bemoaned liberalism and the fact that "Charles is no longer in the same place politically" as he was after 9/11. Charles corrected him.

When Charles went on to excoriate him for the racist video, he again mentioned Norway (a TV station) and the supposed sexual assault campaign being waged against Europeans. This is a theme that also runs through Breivik's writings.

He hasn't been banned yet, but in retrospect the similarity between his comments and Breivik's ideology is pretty creepy, especially since he was referencing Norway in the days & weeks prior to this horrible attack.

I'm NOT saying he was in any way related to the events yesterday, but what I am saying is that it appear there are still some people here who have a similar mindset and are very sympathetic to Breivik's ideology. I think we need to be watchful.

Damn.

590 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:34:12am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

I'm not gonna touch that one.

591 blueraven  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:34:18am

Breaking: Amy Winehouse found dead in her apartment.

592 lawhawk  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:34:43am

From the Daily Mail:

It has emerged that the man at the centre of the attack is also a member of a Swedish Nazi forum which encourages attacks on government buildings.

The revelations were revealed by Swedish newspaper Expo who claim Anders Breivik is part of 'Nordisk' which has 22,000 members and focuses on political terrorism.

The 32-year-old who has been identified as the suspect by Norwegian media is also said to have anti-Muslim viewed.

Police are searching the blond, blue-eyed man's flat in Oslo and are still searching the surrounding waters, where people fled the attack.

It has also just been revealed that there is a new bomb alert in the capital and police have reportedly sealed off an area called Solli Plass, an area close to the royal palace.

He apparently created a profile on the site in 2009 but there's no way to know when he last accessed the site (though I'm sure that will change as investigators pore over the details).

593 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:35:10am

re: #591 blueraven

Crikey.

594 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:35:23am

re: #591 blueraven

Breaking: Amy Winehouse found dead in her apartment.

NO Fuck NO!
I love her..Fuck..
Shit...

595 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:35:42am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

He has a partial point. At least in my opinion, too many young men in the West do not learn proper male values... I also think that the rise of women is most of what has given western men an identity crisis.

What are "proper male values"? And how are women creating an identity crisis in men?

596 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:36:27am

What a waste.

597 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:36:28am

Oh DF.... hoo boy.

598 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:36:37am

re: #587 iceweasel

"gender feminist" is a big tip off. Milty strikes me as one of those MRAs (Men's Rights Activists) that like to troll feminist blogs.

Check your email. Sent you something. ;)

599 blueraven  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:36:41am

re: #594 HoosierHoops

NO Fuck NO!
I love her..Fuck..
Shit...

Very sad. She was a real talent, but one with obvious demons.

No details, just heard it on CNN.

600 lawhawk  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:36:52am

re: #591 blueraven

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

601 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:38:02am

Morning all!

What's going on?

602 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:38:28am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

He has a partial point. At least in my opinion, too many young men in the West do not learn proper male values. They thinking that being 'masculine' amounts to violent thuggery, which it does not. I also think that the rise of women is most of what has given western men an identity crisis. But differ in that I do not think the corrective is for women to be subservient again. I do believe that a certain deference by both sexes is more in order, coupled to the promotion of positive virtues for both (though in my ideal these would differ in places).

Again, not trying to justify sexism or bigotry. It's just my take on the point the loon was trying to make. Nothing can justify terrorist acts like the ones in Oslo.

One "proper male value" you might try to learn is that everyone has a right to control their own body. When you say reproductive rights aren't an important issue for you you reveal a chilling willingness to look past some of the worst, creepy, misogynistic aspects of your party.

603 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:38:42am

re: #585 Winny Spencer

A moronic commentator on GoV "proves" that Breivik isn't a true anti-jihadist:

"If Breivik (or whoever has been leaving comments in Breivik's name) were "one of us" (i.e, part of the counterjihad in any real sense), he would know by now never to use Little Green Footballs as a source of information. In a rather sick way, the joke is once again on Charles Johnson."

It is?

Typical and disgustingly predictable. No matter what Charles says or does, even when the other side clearly shares a mindset with a psychotic killer, the "joke" is always "on Charles Johnson". I'm going to let Ice answer this one:

604 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:38:54am

re: #601 ggt

Morning all!

What's going on?

I'm wondering if Amy Winehouse' death will overshadow the terror attack in Norway.

605 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:39:01am

Is 27 that rock star death age? pitiful.

606 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:39:04am

re: #599 blueraven

Very sad. She was a real talent, but one with obvious demons.

No details, just heard it on CNN.

Amy:

607 jaunte  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:39:13am

FAA shutdown:

Beyond the furloughed employees, the lack of an extension will not affect operations at area airports, although it will mean the federal government cannot collect about $200 million a week in ticket taxes that go into a trust fund that pays for FAA programs.

As a result, airline passengers could see a savings on airfares, but the situation is complicated. Federal taxes on a $300 round-trip airfare are about $61, but about half that are airport and security fees that will continue to be collected, the Air Transport Association said.

However, U.S. Airways was already raising its fares, and other airlines may try to reap a windfall profit from the tax holiday as well.[Link: www.pressofatlanticcity.com...]

608 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:39:26am

re: #601 ggt

Morning all!

What's going on?

A LOT

609 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:39:44am

re: #591 blueraven

Breaking: Amy Winehouse found dead in her apartment.

Sad, but unfortunately predictable. *sigh*

610 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:40:33am

Overdose?

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:41:26am

re: #604 BigPapa

I'm wondering if Amy Winehouse' death will overshadow the terror attack in Norway.

No, I think, unfortunately it won't be a surprise.

She was ill for a long time.

612 Winny Spencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:41:45am

re: #592 lawhawk

"Nordisk's members range from Swedish members of parliament for the far-right Sweden Democrats party to Nazi leaders, the article explained."

Interesting, but not exclusively a Neo-Nazi site then, which would have been surprising given what we've come to learn about his political views.

613 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:42:13am

re: #605 Stanley Sea

Is 27 that rock star death age? pitiful.

yup

614 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:42:14am

re: #608 Stanley Sea

A LOT

No Shit! Man, I don't know how much I can handle.

615 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:42:50am

re: #604 BigPapa

I'm wondering if Amy Winehouse' death will overshadow the terror attack in Norway.

That dope addicted singer from Britain? It would be a sad day if it does.

616 blueraven  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:44:19am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

I have to admit, I thought about Milty too after reading some of the shooters comments.

Good work bringing all this together. Seems there are many who embrace this kind of thinking.

617 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:48:27am

re: #602 goddamnedfrank

One "proper male value" you might try to learn is that everyone has a right to control their own body. When you say reproductive rights aren't an important issue for you you reveal a chilling willingness to look past some of the worst, creepy, misogynistic aspects of your party.

QFT.

618 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:48:47am

re: #616 blueraven

I have to admit, I thought about Milty too after reading some of the shooters comments.

Good work bringing all this together. Seems there are many who embrace this kind of thinking.

Thanks. Scary thought that last part, isn't it?

619 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:49:02am

re: #592 lawhawk

He apparently created a profile on the site in 2009 but there's no way to know when he last accessed the site (though I'm sure that will change as investigators pore over the details).

nordisk.nu is not quite a Nazi forum. It's also a Nazi forum, but there are people there in many different shades of fascism.

620 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:49:14am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

Man, you did a lot of work.

Thanks!

621 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:49:56am

re: #620 ggt

Man, you did a lot of work.

Thanks!

You're welcome! ;)

622 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:50:10am

re: #615 Naso Tang

That dope addicted singer from Britain? It would be a sad day if it does.


Don't say that.. It hurts when friends, Children, Family dies from Drug addiction.. Amy was a great talent.. I'm sorry for her

623 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:50:48am

re: #602 goddamnedfrank

One "proper male value" you might try to learn is that everyone has the right and responsibility to control their own body. When you say reproductive rights aren't an important issue for you you reveal a chilling willingness to look past some of the worst, creepy, misogynistic aspects of your party.

QFT and modified.

624 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:52:16am

The proper place for a pregnant woman this time of year is barefoot and sitting with her feet in some cold water, preferably a soaker tub, but a kiddie pool will do if that's all that available.

(Had a baby in July ten years ago.)

625 blueraven  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:52:41am

re: #618 CuriousLurker

Thanks. Scary thought that last part, isn't it?

Indeed! Actually, I get frightened often when reading stuff on the internet. The anonymity affords people to say things you might never hear otherwise. A blessing and a curse, I suppose.

626 funky chicken  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:52:46am

So he's upset that Muslims are raping young Norwegian women, and his response is to go kill a bunch of teenagers at summer camp? I suppose I should be happy that I can't quite see the logical path from A to B here.

627 General Nimrod Bodfish  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:12am

re: #591 blueraven

Breaking: Amy Winehouse found dead in her apartment.

I hope her family and friends can find some peace and comfort in the following days.

I'll wait until there's an official cause of death before I comment further than that.

628 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:29am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

He has a partial point. At least in my opinion, too many young men in the West do not learn proper male values. They thinking that being 'masculine' amounts to violent thuggery, which it does not. I also think that the rise of women is most of what has given western men an identity crisis. But differ in that I do not think the corrective is for women to be subservient again. I do believe that a certain deference by both sexes is more in order, coupled to the promotion of positive virtues for both (though in my ideal these would differ in places).

Again, not trying to justify sexism or bigotry. It's just my take on the point the loon was trying to make. Nothing can justify terrorist acts like the ones in Oslo.

I understand where you are coming from. Interestingly enough, there is a whole branch of RC who is trying to promote Joseph (earthly father of Jesus) in order to promote just what you are talking about.

Such things as the "million man march" and some other organizations are trying to do what they can, I think in a positive way.

In the end, IMHO, it takes fathers, grandfathers and uncles.

629 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:39am

re: #626 funky chicken

So he's upset that Muslims are raping young Norwegian women, and his response is to go kill a bunch of teenagers at summer camp? I suppose I should be happy that I can't quite see the logical path from A to B here.

He proved just how violent a multicultural society can be -- the only way he knew how.

630 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:55:13am

Muslims raping white women seems to be a meme. I think it was brought up before that it was an issue in Australia.

I don't seem to recall it being an issue in the US. ???

631 Gepetto  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:56:59am

re: #481 Dark_Falcon

I agree with the sentiment, but that's close to a "No True Scotsman" line.

so what? weakminded memes and glib classifications don't carry serious weight in cases like this. there's nothing in Christianity, indeed in most religions, that would sanction mass slaughter of innocents. This type of action pretty much puts the lie to any claim of adherence to religious principles or identification. you tear up your 'Christian' card as soon as you start along this bloody and horrific path.

632 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:57:08am

re: #630 ggt

Muslims raping white women seems to be a meme. I think it was brought up before that it was an issue in Australia.

I don't seem to recall it being an issue in the US. ???

Same as the old black men raping white women scare.

Really fucked up.

633 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:57:17am

re: #630 ggt

Muslims raping white women seems to be a meme. I think it was brought up before that it was an issue in Australia.

I don't seem to recall it being an issue in the US. ???

Just an extension of black men raping white women. Been an issue in the US forever... still is.

634 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:57:57am

re: #632 Stanley Sea

Same as the old black men raping white women scare.

Really fucked up.

Beat me to it!

635 CuriousLurker  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:58:10am

re: #625 blueraven

Indeed! Actually, I get frightened often when reading stuff on the internet. The anonymity affords people to say things you might never hear otherwise. A blessing and a curse, I suppose.

Yeah, it starts to make you wonder about the guy (or gal) sitting next to you at work or standing next to you in line at the grocery store...

Okay, I was up all night with another bout of insomnia, so now I'm going to try to catch some z's. Y'all please don't discover anything too interesting before I get back, m'kay? Heh, later.

636 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:58:27am

re: #630 ggt

Muslims raping white women seems to be a meme. I think it was brought up before that it was an issue in Australia.

I don't seem to recall it being an issue in the US. ???

That's because we got thoroughly sick of it back when it was "black men raping white women" in the nineteenth century. Americans came to identify that meme with racism in all its ugliest forms, and so anything like it won't fly.

637 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:58:28am

Oh no.

re: #591 blueraven

Breaking: Amy Winehouse found dead in her apartment.

What a shame. And a waste. Rest in peace girl, this world and yours had a tough relationship.

638 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:59:23am

Why yes, yes it was a No True Christian invocation!

Would you give the same leeway to a Muslim?

639 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:59:45am

re: #634 allegro

Beat me to it!

It's such a core scare tactic.

640 kirkspencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:59:53am

re: #626 funky chicken

So he's upset that Muslims are raping young Norwegian women, and his response is to go kill a bunch of teenagers at summer camp? I suppose I should be happy that I can't quite see the logical path from A to B here.

Actually, as has been pointed out to me elsewhere we do not know why he did what he did. We assume his public utterances have something to do with it -- and they probably do -- but we do not know.

Fortunately, as with Nidal Hasan and Jared Loughner (and for that matter McVeigh and Nichols) the perpetrator was caught alive. We will eventually know.

If the suppositions I have - which are similar to most here - are born out, I intend to rub some faces in the fact. I don't expect it to wake them up, but facts are more likely to work than guesses.

641 William of Orange  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:01:14am

Seems police confirmed that Winehouse was found dead in her apartment. First reported by Sky News.

BBC reporting.

Such a SHAME. A great talent cut short by booze and drugs. A justified new member of the 27-club. But let's face it. Did it really come unexpected?

642 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:01:31am

re: #628 ggt

I understand where you are coming from. Interestingly enough, there is a whole branch of RC who is trying to promote Joseph (earthly father of Jesus) in order to promote just what you are talking about.

Such things as the "million man march" and some other organizations are trying to do what they can, I think in a positive way.

In the end, IMHO, it takes fathers, grandfathers and uncles.

Thanks.

643 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:01:35am

Here's an esoteric question.

Come Monday, how will the Norwegian government be operating? They certainly lost Government Officials (confirmed at this point), but many government buildings are wrecked. Most have windows blown out, but only structural engineers are now allowed in any of these buildings because of fears of structural damage. Which definite in the case of the Oil Ministry Building, where part of the rook caved in to the floor below it.

With the so much government floor space gone, what happens to the operation of government?

644 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:01:57am

re: #641 William of Orange

645 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:02:32am

re: #641 William of Orange

Seems police confirmed that Winehouse was found dead in her apartment. First reported by Sky News.

BBC reporting.

Such a SHAME. A great talent cut short by booze and drugs. A justified new member of the 27-club. But let's face it. Did it really come unexpected?

No, her body was simply worn-out. I doubt the cause of death will say much more than that.

To look at her in pictures is to see a body working totally on will power and nothing else.

646 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:02:42am

re: #641 William of Orange

Seems police confirmed that Winehouse was found dead in her apartment. First reported by Sky News.

BBC reporting.

Such a SHAME. A great talent cut short by booze and drugs. A justified new member of the 27-club. But let's face it. Did it really come unexpected?

Here's a good tweet.

CharlesMBlow

Artists often live troubled lives. That's what makes their art so powerful. Trick is to stay this side of safe and sane.

647 JJ42  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:02:46am

Watched the press conference now

No real changes in death count. 92 dead, 5 missing. The guy (ABB) used a handgun and a (full) automatic weapon, and was able to keep shooting for 90 minutes. Apparently he took his time and shot people twice to make sure they were dead. When the swat team arrived on the island, he surrendered voluntarily. No shots were fired during the arrest.

Interrogation progresses slowly. He has admitted to being on the island and firing shots. No motive so far.

Regarding his political ideas, it was pretty much your average Fjordman/Geller/GoV-fan. Judging from his writings on document.no ([Link: translate.google.com...] which is a fairly moderate site (though critical of radical islam,) one wouldn't suspect that this was a person who would go on a killing spree. As you can see, he links to both Pamela and LGF, and his opinions are fairly logical, although he's quite obsessed about 'cultural marxism', 'feminization', etc. He also referred to a lot of political youth groups as 'Marxist / Islamist Jugend', so it's obvious that he had some issues with them. He was also a member of a conservative populist party (FRP) some years ago, but apparently left because he thought they were too liberal.

Judging from his facebook (down) and twitter page ([Link: twitter.com...] they appear to have been created a week ago, probably as a kind of press kit. He was also a 3rd degree freemason (conspiracy nuts are going to love this), but was not said to be active within the lodge.

On his public tax forms ([Link: skattelister.no...] he's not listed with an income for last year (probably due to him being self employed), but he's listed with a net worth (right word?) of $72 000.

According to live news broadcasts he's not affiliated with any far right /neo-nazi groups, and appears to have acted alone.

648 funky chicken  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:03:40am

re: #629 wrenchwench

So that Roeder nut really should have shot up the Operation Rescue headquarters? Or a maternity ward? He rages about the victimization of youn Norwegian women and then goes and kills a bunch of them? Like I said, that seems to be a bizarre leap of logic.

I hope Norwegian prisons are very unpleasant places.

649 Gepetto  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:03:46am

re: #522 allegro

It appears that one just did.

he also played Warcraft and posted on the internet.

650 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:06:26am

re: #643 ProLifeLiberal

Here's an esoteric question.

Come Monday, how will the Norwegian government be operating? They certainly lost Government Officials (confirmed at this point), but many government buildings are wrecked. Most have windows blown out, but only structural engineers are now allowed in any of these buildings because of fears of structural damage. Which definite in the case of the Oil Ministry Building, where part of the roof caved in to the floor below it.

With the so much government floor space gone, what happens to the operation of government?

I fixed spelling.

Sorry if the question seems insensitive. I do think it is important though.

651 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:06:59am

re: #636 EmmmieG

That's because we got thoroughly sick of it back when it was "black men raping white women" in the nineteenth century. Americans came to identify that meme with racism in all its ugliest forms, and so anything like it won't fly.

Some people got sick of it. It still has currency, sad to say. As does its ugly stepsister, the "traitor to her race" white woman who is thought to be consorting with black men. We saw that vile meme on display recently with that "Gimme yo' cash, bitch!" internet ad in Cali.

And now I must go. I'll be back later.

652 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:07:03am

re: #647 JJ42

Watched the press conference now

No real changes in death count. 92 dead, 5 missing. The guy (ABB) used a handgun and a (full) automatic weapon, and was able to keep shooting for 90 minutes. Apparently he took his time and shot people twice to make sure they were dead. When the swat team arrived on the island, he surrendered voluntarily. No shots were fired during the arrest.

Interrogation progresses slowly. He has admitted to being on the island and firing shots. No motive so far.

Regarding his political ideas, it was pretty much your average Fjordman/Geller/GoV-fan. Judging from his writings on document.no ([Link: translate.google.com...] which is a fairly moderate site (though critical of radical islam,) one wouldn't suspect that this was a person who would go on a killing spree. As you can see, he links to both Pamela and LGF, and his opinions are fairly logical, although he's quite obsessed about 'cultural marxism', 'feminization', etc. He also referred to a lot of political youth groups as 'Marxist / Islamist Jugend', so it's obvious that he had some issues with them. He was also a member of a conservative populist party (FRP) some years ago, but apparently left because he thought they were too liberal.

Judging from his facebook (down) and twitter page ([Link: twitter.com...] they appear to have been created a week ago, probably as a kind of press kit. He was also a 3rd degree freemason (conspiracy nuts are going to love this), but was not said to be active within the lodge.

On his public tax forms ([Link: skattelister.no...] he's not listed with an income for last year (probably due to him being self employed), but he's listed with a net worth (right word?) of $72 000.

According to live news broadcasts he's not affiliated with any far right /neo-nazi groups, and appears to have acted alone.

Thanks for taking the time to research and post.

653 JJ42  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:10:15am

re: #647 JJ42

Seems like there are some problems with my links. Just remove the ")," at the end of the urls, and things should go smoothly

654 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:10:31am

re: #598 Gus 802

Check your email. Sent you something. ;)

WHOA

655 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:11:24am

re: #652 ggt

The document.no is no longer avail.

656 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:11:42am

re: #635 CuriousLurker

Yeah, it starts to make you wonder about the guy (or gal) sitting next to you at work or standing next to you in line at the grocery store...

Okay, I was up all night with another bout of insomnia, so now I'm going to try to catch some z's. Y'all please don't discover anything too interesting before I get back, m'kay? Heh, later.

I think about that alot. My customers too!

Sometimes they say something, you give them the benefit of the doubt. Othertimes you just get a weird vibe. . . .

657 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:11:48am

re: #655 Stanley Sea

Why am I not surprised?

658 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:00am

re: #653 JJ42

Seems like there are some problems with my links. Just remove the ")," at the end of the urls, and things should go smoothly

Got it, thanks.

659 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:17am

re: #647 JJ42

but he's listed with a net worth (right word?)

Yes. Your English is excellent.

660 funky chicken  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:23am

re: #647 JJ42

Ah, so he thought these teenagers at summer camp were leading to the Feminization and Marxification of Norway. So of course he had to kill them to protect the motherland.

Damn.

661 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:42am

re: #651 Dark_Falcon

And now I must go. I'll be back later.

I guess I won't be finding out what proper males values are. Darn. I figure if I knew what they were I might be able to avoid giving men an identity crisis.

662 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:50am

re: #630 ggt

The way this issue is exploited is disgusting. But the issue itself - rape by immigrants from the more "patriarchal" states - may be true. In Moscow 50% of rapes in the 1st half of 2011 were committed by immigrants, mostly illegals. In 2008 it was 70%. Obviously, the immigrants are not necessarily Muslim and the victims are not necessarily "white women". But most immigrants in Moscow (esp. illegals) do come from the more patriarchal societies.

663 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:49am

re: #650 ProLifeLiberal

I fixed spelling.

Sorry if the question seems insensitive. I do think it is important though.

The Pentagon functioned with a big hole in it. They'll make do.

664 JJ42  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:14:09am

re: #655 Stanley Sea

It's there, i just messed up the links ;) Remove the ")," at the end of the url

665 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:14:22am

re: #662 Sergey Romanov

The way this issue is exploited is disgusting. But the issue itself - rape by immigrants from the more "patriarchal" states - may be true. In Moscow 50% of rapes in the 1st half of 2011 were committed by immigrants, mostly illegals. In 2008 it was 70%. Obviously, the immigrants are not necessarily Muslim and the victims are not necessarily "white women". But most immigrants in Moscow (esp. illegals) do come from the more patriarchal societies.

So patriarchal societies are more sexually repressed?

666 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:15:41am

re: #665 ggt

I would think so. There are also other factors of course - all those societies are poor (otherwise these people wouldn't be coming to Russia, of all places), these people are usually undereducated, etc.

667 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:16:04am

re: #535 McSpiff


I also try not to reach too far back into history either. For the same reasons that I hate people saying "But the democrats supported slavery!" Generally try to keep my examples from the last 100 years or so.
It's all very tricky.

QFT
Extremists do depart the original doctrine they claim. "Do unto others" is a Christian phrase. Or look at the Sufi version of Islam. The inquisition was not a Christian act in any philosophical sense. 9/11 IMO was an act by violent men posing as religious men.
Their sincerity comes from the fact they lie to themselves. There is no passage in the N.T. of Christ calling for conversion by torture. Men did that. Blaming the religion masks the guilt and call to act we should feel at the twisted horrible kind of human that springs forth from time to time.

668 allegro  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:16:29am

re: #665 ggt

So patriarchal societies are more sexually repressed?

I doubt sexual repression has that much to do with it. Entitlement is a more likely culprit. Men are taught that they are entitled to sex on demand.

669 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:16:30am

re: #591 blueraven

Breaking: Amy Winehouse found dead in her apartment.

How could they tell?

670 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:17:10am

re: #666 Sergey Romanov

I would think so. There are also other factors of course - all those societies are poor (otherwise these people wouldn't be coming to Russia, of all places), these people are usually undereducated, etc.

Those who might have been taught that any woman who shows her face is a "whore"???? and therefore, fair game???

671 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:17:26am

Amy Winehouse found dead.

672 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:17:26am

re: #663 wrenchwench

It seems more severe to me.

The Pentagon suffered local damage, and over 90% of it was still usable.

In contrast, at least 2 Ministries and the Prime Minister lost their entire buildings. And there were other Ministries very close by, and I don't know how they fared.

That's alot of space lost. And Oslo most likely doesn't have much space to spare. It's the same size as Colorado Springs.

673 Daniel Ballard  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:17:57am

re: #669 negativ

Hey, it's a bit too soon for that sort of thing. My we please have a bit of respect for the newly dead?

674 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:18:31am

Article on Amy Winehouse death

[Link: news.sky.com...]

675 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:19:28am

Drudge's buddy Alex Jones....
Staged Terror Attack On Norway! Part 1

676 Charles Johnson  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:19:43am

re: #647 JJ42

Watched the press conference now

No real changes in death count. 92 dead, 5 missing. The guy (ABB) used a handgun and a (full) automatic weapon, and was able to keep shooting for 90 minutes. Apparently he took his time and shot people twice to make sure they were dead. When the swat team arrived on the island, he surrendered voluntarily. No shots were fired during the arrest.

Interrogation progresses slowly. He has admitted to being on the island and firing shots. No motive so far.

Regarding his political ideas, it was pretty much your average Fjordman/Geller/GoV-fan. Judging from his writings on document.no ([Link: translate.google.com...] which is a fairly moderate site (though critical of radical islam,) one wouldn't suspect that this was a person who would go on a killing spree. As you can see, he links to both Pamela and LGF, and his opinions are fairly logical, although he's quite obsessed about 'cultural marxism', 'feminization', etc. He also referred to a lot of political youth groups as 'Marxist / Islamist Jugend', so it's obvious that he had some issues with them. He was also a member of a conservative populist party (FRP) some years ago, but apparently left because he thought they were too liberal.

Judging from his facebook (down) and twitter page ([Link: twitter.com...] they appear to have been created a week ago, probably as a kind of press kit. He was also a 3rd degree freemason (conspiracy nuts are going to love this), but was not said to be active within the lodge.

On his public tax forms ([Link: skattelister.no...] he's not listed with an income for last year (probably due to him being self employed), but he's listed with a net worth (right word?) of $72 000.

According to live news broadcasts he's not affiliated with any far right /neo-nazi groups, and appears to have acted alone.

On that page you linked, he posted one link to LGF; along with articles to other news sites, Wikipedia, etc. I can promise you that nobody in that "counter-jihad" crowd will ever link to my site with approval again, because I've made it extremely clear that I want nothing to do with their hate speech and bigotry.

677 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:19:48am

re: #668 allegro

I doubt sexual repression has that much to do with it. Entitlement is a more likely culprit. Men are taught that they are entitled to sex on demand.

I thought it was the opposite. They can't have sex with the women in their home --they don't have wives (assuming they are young and broke) -- pornography is not accepted . . .

The only outlet that is acceptable is those who aren't part of their particular "tribe". And they aren't real people (according to the mindset) so they don't count and can be raped.

678 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:20:01am

re: #670 ggt

Those who might have been taught that any woman who shows her face is a "whore"??? and therefore, fair game???

"Whore" is the go-to word for any woman who doesn't know her place. It's meant to remind her that when all is said and done, her primary role is to service men.

679 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:20:06am

re: #670 ggt

Those who might have been taught that any woman who shows her face is a "whore"??? and therefore, fair game???

I fear this might be so. Sometimes a person in an "alien" society behaves differently. Let's not forget what the Soviets did in Germany, those rapes are "legendary" (and in this case "white" people were raping "white" people). Yes, there was one overwhelming factor - an extremely bloody war, revenge. But it doesn't completely explain the wave of rapes. Moreover, Naimark et al. also write about millions of rapes by Germans in USSR during the war. So again, the "alien" factor may be true.

680 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:20:13am

re: #574 CuriousLurker

I had a look at that video just now. It appears to be a recording of Norwegian TV news (NK1) with comments from a policewoman.

I am no defender of what I have seen Milty write on various subjects, but shouldn't the question on this particular video be whether or not it is a fake, or true?

681 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:22:16am

re: #671 Thanos
I just read that too. Who was she?

682 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:22:47am

re: #679 Sergey Romanov

I fear this might be so. Sometimes a person in an "alien" society behaves differently. Let's not forget what the Soviets did in Germany, those rapes are "legendary" (and in this case "white" people were raping "white" people). Yes, there was one overwhelming factor - an extremely bloody war, revenge. But it doesn't completely explain the wave of rapes. Moreover, Naimark et al. also write about millions of rapes by Germans in USSR during the war. So again, the "alien" factor may be true.

There is some phenomenon about war and rape. It don't know if it is some primal need to show dominance or to plant the victor's "seed" into the new land . . . ..

683 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:16am

re: #668 allegro

I doubt sexual repression has that much to do with it. Entitlement is a more likely culprit. Men are taught that they are entitled to sex on demand.

Like that fucker Strom Thurmond who raped his 16 year old maid. Because he could.

684 JJ42  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:26am

re: #662 Sergey Romanov

If there was one incident who drove ABB over the edge, it might have been this: [Link: www.dagbladet.no...] and especially this [Link: translate.google.com...] Slightly weird translation, but you get the idea. 15 year old asylum seeker raped girl on the stairs of the parliament building while guards inside did nothing.

However, most likely he had planned this long ago.

685 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:32am

re: #681 PhillyPretzel

I just read that too. Who was she?

An extremely talented young singer from Britain who was an addict.

686 kirkspencer  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:35am

re: #667 Rightwingconspirator

QFT
Extremists do depart the original doctrine they claim. "Do unto others" is a Christian phrase. Or look at the Sufi version of Islam. The inquisition was not a Christian act in any philosophical sense. 9/11 IMO was an act by violent men posing as religious men.
Their sincerity comes from the fact they lie to themselves. There is no passage in the N.T. of Christ calling for conversion by torture. Men did that. Blaming the religion masks the guilt and call to act we should feel at the twisted horrible kind of human that springs forth from time to time.

I've got a friend who proposes the "three generation" rule. NOTHING lasts, as is, past three generations. And even within those three there are changes.
The first generation builds, and sacrifices as necessary to do so. The second generation sustains, making no sacrifices but enjoying sufficiently more fruits that building does not (cannot?) happen. The third generation, enjoying even more of the fruits, wastes it.

The last may not destroy it, but they certainly bring it to the point that the next generation, the fourth, must build anew. This generation, both not starting from the same point as the first and having a different (and possibly improved) set of tools, does not build the same edifice/society.

687 wrenchwench  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:38am

re: #676 Charles

On that page you linked, he posted one link to LGF; along with articles to other news sites, Wikipedia, etc. I can promise you that nobody in that "counter-jihad" crowd will ever link to my site with approval again, because I've made it extremely clear that I want nothing to do with their hate speech and bigotry.

The fact that he has one link to LGF is being used as proof he is "not one of us" by noted counterjihadist expert 1389xx.

688 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:24:52am

re: #681 PhillyPretzel

I just read that too. Who was she?

British singer with large following prone to appearing on stage wiped out on drugs or booze.

689 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:25:23am

re: #682 ggt

The answer, of course, is not scapegoating but a saner immigration policy, with saner treatment of migrants while they are in the country.

690 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:25:26am

re: #682 ggt

There is some phenomenon about war and rape. It don't know if it is some primal need to show dominance or to plant the victor's "seed" into the new land . . ..

Susan Brownmiller documented the use of rape as a weapon of war in Against Our Will back in the 70's-- to my mind, essential reading.

691 Randall Gross  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:26:37am

re: #687 wrenchwench

The fact that he has one link to LGF is being used as proof he is "not one of us" by noted counterjihadist expert 1389xx.

Oh, the Serbian nazi who is a genocide denialist.

692 McSpiff  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:27:22am

re: #588 Dark_Falcon

He has a partial point. At least in my opinion, too many young men in the West do not learn proper male values. They thinking that being 'masculine' amounts to violent thuggery, which it does not. I also think that the rise of women is most of what has given western men an identity crisis. But differ in that I do not think the corrective is for women to be subservient again. I do believe that a certain deference by both sexes is more in order, coupled to the promotion of positive virtues for both (though in my ideal these would differ in places).

Again, not trying to justify sexism or bigotry. It's just my take on the point the loon was trying to make. Nothing can justify terrorist acts like the ones in Oslo.

D_F, I'm not sure if you've read the posts in question by Milty, but if you haven't I highly suggest you do before you say he even has a partial point. This guy is saying women need to have white babies to serve civilization. Very Nazi-esque IMO.

693 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:28:00am

It seems that it is men who are so concerned with the "purity" of ethnicity. We don't hear much about whacko women screaming about "rapes" by foreigners.

hmmmmm. . .

694 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:28:45am

re: #690 iceweasel

Susan Brownmiller documented the use of rape as a weapon of war in Against Our Will back in the 70's-- to my mind, essential reading.

I must have read an excerpt or something because that sounds very familiar.

695 Digital Display  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:29:30am

re: #685 ggt

An extremely talented young singer from Britain who was an addict.

The first time I heard Amy I was floating in the pool in Indiana on a Saturday...I had music blasting and she came on.. I was blown away.. I climb out of the pool..Who the hell was that?
Amy Winehouse said the DJ...
What a talent....Special talent.. It was like when I was in a car speaker shop when I heard for the first time Boston playing more than a feeling The hair on the back of my neck stood up.. Who the hell was that?

696 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:30:36am

re: #693 ggt

You do in the link by CL/Milty above.

697 The Left  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:31:36am

re: #694 ggt

I must have read an excerpt or something because that sounds very familiar.

I'm sure you must have at some point, or someone who referenced her. She was the first to point out that rape is a weapon of aggression and has nothing to do with sex-- it's using sex to inflict violence.

698 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:39:11am

re: #697 iceweasel

I'm sure you must have at some point, or someone who referenced her. She was the first to point out that rape is a weapon of aggression and has nothing to do with sex-- it's using sex to inflict violence.

Right, but I remember reading something about a biological force -- we are wired to rape in times of war. It think it had to do with a reference to football players or some other such violent sport.

699 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:39:36am

re: #696 Naso Tang

You do in the link by CL/Milty above.

I'm not checking the link, I'll take your word for it.

700 reine.de.tout  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:51:44am

Oh, wow, I just saw this:

Amy Winehouse found dead in her home.

701 blueraven  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:55:14am

re: #669 negativ

How could they tell?

Stay classy.

702 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:10:57am

re: #566 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the sweltering NYC metro area. Another scorcher here - which means that anything I was planning to do outside is going to be put off until it gets cooler.

Like many here, I too am trying to wrap my head around the horrific news in Norway and how this guy apparently murdered so many kids in cold blood. Some of the survivors played dead to avoid being killed as Breivik methodically went through the youth camp murdering people left and right.

Perhaps the scariest thing is that he doesn't appear to have done this with help - he acted alone. He managed to build and detonate a bomb, and then murder so many people on his own.

That's perhaps the worst case scenario for law enforcement the world over.

It's one thing to try and disrupt terror cells (someone can talk). But someone who has access to the materials as Breivik did (fertilizer for the bomb) and the willingness to act on whatever deranged worldview he had; and it seems that he was opposed to the Norwegian government's immigration position; and can carry out this attack on his own is a new and dangerous dimension that will make it more difficult down the road for security officials around the world.

Excellent points. You can't track a lone gunman, except after the fact.

703 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:39:51am

re: #622 HoosierHoops

Don't say that.. It hurts when friends, Children, Family dies from Drug addiction.. Amy was a great talent.. I'm sorry for her

I mean that I get tired of people who have everything from great talent to great money to great fans and then don't give shit about anything except drugs when they could have all the help available.

I'll reserve my pity for those who want help and can't get it.

704 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:45:02am

re: #702 austin_blue

Excellent points. You can't track a lone gunman, except after the fact.

Actually, one could track this one, and others, from the hate they spew online. Charles does it regularly.

705 Achilles Tang  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:45:35am

Off to Borders to see what the book discounts are.


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