Overnight Open Thread
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Move on up
towards your destination
Though you may find
from time to time
Complications
— Curtis Mayfield
504 comments
1 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:28:02pm |
Heres to hoping Brevik finds lots of complications . . . .
| 2 |
Kronocide Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:32:00pm |
I'm still processing this stuff, but all day I've been thinking...
What right wing violence?
| 3 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:40:29pm |
Ah, a shiny open thread!
In other news, Cadel Evans pretty much wrapped up the Tour de France by beating the dogshit out of Andy Schleck in a time trial. Tomorrow's last stage is the Processional to and around Paris. He will be the first Australian to win Le Tour.
| 4 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:46:19pm |
| 5 |
Virginia Plain Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:46:44pm |
I can't get through Breivik's long winded book. I'm still in the history part. Man this POS did not like women that much.
| 6 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:49:51pm |
Hey! It's a stifling Saturday night for most of us. Let us drink Gin and Tonics and speak of the pleasant things in the world rather than the Nordic Sociopath.
How 'bout them Rangers?
| 7 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:50:18pm |
Kid's are having a sleep over, so I've got 5 girls between the ages of 5 and 10 in the other room.
I'm barricading the bedroom door until they leave in the morning.
| 8 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:51:11pm |
re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Kid's are having a sleep over, so I've got 5 girls between the ages of 5 and 10 in the other room.
I'm barricading the bedroom door until they leave in the morning.
Earplugs. Most definitely earplug night.
| 9 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:52:16pm |
re: #5 Virginia Plain
I can't get through Breivik's long winded book. I'm still in the history part. Man this POS did not like women that much.
Yeah, I'm getting those vibes too!
| 10 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:14pm |
re: #8 austin_blue
Earplugs. Most definitely earplug night.
Already on my third "I don't care who started it, shut up and get along" speech of the evening.
| 11 |
simoom Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:53pm |
Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:
NYT: ‘Haboobs’ Stir Critics in Arizona
The massive dust storms that swept through central Arizona this month have stirred up not just clouds of sand but a debate over what to call them.Phoenix Dusts Off After Giant Sandstorm Whips Through (July 7, 2011)
The blinding waves of brown particles, the most recent of which hit Phoenix on Monday, are caused by thunderstorms that emit gusts of wind, roiling the desert landscape. Use of the term “haboob,” which is what such storms have long been called in the Middle East, has rubbed some Arizona residents the wrong way.“I am insulted that local TV news crews are now calling this kind of storm a haboob,” Don Yonts, a resident of Gilbert, Ariz., wrote to The Arizona Republic after a particularly fierce, mile-high dust storm swept through the state on July 5. “How do they think our soldiers feel coming back to Arizona and hearing some Middle Eastern term?”
...
“Meteorologists in the Southwest have used the term for decades,” said Randy Cerveny, a climatologist at Arizona State University. “The media usually avoid it because they don’t think anyone will understand it.
| 12 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:56:13pm |
re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Already on my third "I don't care who started it, shut up and get along" speech of the evening.
You have my full and heartfelt sympathy, my man. Do you have any aerosol thorazine? That tends to calm the little buggers right down.
| 13 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:56:39pm |
| 14 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:57:32pm |
Here in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland, we are having One Helluva Storm.
Or at least, I think that's what the weather people call it.
:)
| 15 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:00:44pm |
re: #12 austin_blue
You have my full and heartfelt sympathy, my man. Do you have any aerosol thorazine? That tends to calm the little buggers right down.
Pizza, no coke.
| 16 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:01:56pm |
re: #11 simoom
Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:
Dear Mr. Yonts;
Our soldiers coming back from the Middle East will absolutely adore this term. Not only have they had to suffer from these "phenomena", which is what the means in Arabic, but they get the added bonus of reading "Gigantic Haboob Hits Phoenix", which I assure you is comedy gold for a combat trooper. Please start worrying about *real* problems.
Yours truly,
A_B
| 17 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:03:34pm |
re: #15 ggt
Pizza, no coke.
Pizza has been served. I've made sure each of my offspring were embarrassed. Wii games have been engaged.
| 18 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:04:17pm |
re: #16 austin_blue
Dear Mr. Yonts;
Our soldiers coming back from the Middle East will absolutely adore this term. Not only have they had to suffer from these "phenomena", which is what the word means in Arabic, but they get the added bonus of reading "Gigantic Haboob Hits Phoenix", which I assure you is comedy gold for a combat trooper. Please start worrying about *real* problems.
Yours truly,
A_B
| 19 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:06:11pm |
| 20 |
tnguitarist Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:06:25pm |
re: #11 simoom
“How do they think our soldiers feel coming back to Arizona and hearing some Middle Eastern term?”
They must really think our soldiers are wusses.
| 21 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:09:17pm |
Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."
If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.
We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.
| 22 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:10:40pm |
re: #21 EmmmieG
Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."
If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.
We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.
HA! BOOBS!
Oops, I did it again.
| 23 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:10:51pm |
re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Pizza has been served. I've made sure each of my offspring were embarrassed. Wii games have been engaged.
My girlfriends and I used sleep in sleeping bags in the finished basement. We'd watch the TV till we passed-out. In the morning, early in the morning, my Dad would open the basement door and let the Beagle down stairs. He was always so excited to be with the girls.
We didn't appreciate his doggy enthusiasm.
| 24 |
simoom Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:42pm |
re: #21 EmmmieG
Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."
If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.
We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.
From what I recall of gradeschool, someone saying the word "it" was enough to trigger someone declaring, "You said it!" and then a round of snickering. :P
| 25 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:03pm |
re: #21 EmmmieG
Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."
If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.
We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.
I think it depends on how you pronounce it. I don't think there is the Texas drawl if it's done correctly.
| 26 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:07pm |
re: #23 ggt
My girlfriends and I used sleep in sleeping bags in the finished basement. We'd watch the TV till we passed-out. In the morning, early in the morning, my Dad would open the basement door and let the Beagle down stairs. He was always so excited to be with the girls.
We didn't appreciate his doggy enthusiasm.
It could be worse. My little sister was woken up two days in a row by her 18 month old picking her nose for her.
| 27 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:35pm |
re: #26 EmmmieG
It could be worse. My little sister was woken up two days in a row by her 18 month old picking her nose for her.
ROTFLAMO!
| 29 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:21:55pm |
Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.
Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.
| 30 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:27pm |
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
"...Screaming."
"Why are you screaming?"
"We don't know."
/facepalm
| 31 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:24:47pm |
re: #29 EmmmieG
Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.
Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.
Got to figure someone related to the victims might think 21 years for 1 guy might be a fair exchange.
| 33 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:30:25pm |
re: #29 EmmmieG
Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.
Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.
Don't know yet. We have to wait to see how they are going to prosecute.
| 34 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:30:57pm |
I just tried to read some of the manifesto.
I don't think I"ll be finishing it.
| 35 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:31:38pm |
re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Got to figure someone related to the victims might think 21 years for 1 guy might be a fair exchange.
Think they'll have to keep him in solitary to keep the other prisoners from taking justice into their own hands. . . .
| 36 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:34:17pm |
re: #29 EmmmieG
Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.
Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.
I don't want get into a debate about this particular case, but more generally: can you step back a minute and think about how long 21 years is?
It's an unimaginably long time to sit in a 8'x10' box.
Do not mistake this for a plea for compassion or leniency.
| 37 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:34:38pm |
re: #29 EmmmieG
Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.
Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.
As noted in the last thread, 21 years is the maximum sentence, but in cases where the killer might still be a "danger to society", additional 5 year extensions may be applied until the rotten sociopath dies a natural death in prison. So his actual imprisonment can be "Life and a Day".
| 38 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:35:25pm |
re: #36 negativ
I don't want get into a debate about this particular case, but more generally: can you step back a minute and think about how long 21 years is?
It's an unimaginably long time to sit in a 8'x10' box.
Do not mistake this for a plea for compassion or leniency.
I think he took it into account. It is part of his plan to be martyred.
| 39 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:37:19pm |
re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
"...Screaming."
"Why are you screaming?"
"We don't know."/facepalm
See? Earplugs.
| 40 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:37:50pm |
re: #36 negativ
I don't want get into a debate about this particular case, but more generally: can you step back a minute and think about how long 21 years is?
It's an unimaginably long time to sit in a 8'x10' box.
Do not mistake this for a plea for compassion or leniency.
It's not going to be in a box. It's going to be in a bedroom. This will be in a Norwegian prison not Rikers Island. This is the one at Halden:
| 41 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:38:25pm |
re: #38 ggt
I think he took it into account. It is part of his plan to be martyred.
He'll be in the public eye the rest of his life. After the first 21, he'll be in the news at least every 5 years--keeping his ideas alive.
He wrote he had been working on the book for 9 years. He has planned it well.
| 42 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:39:21pm |
re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Got to figure someone related to the victims might think 21 years for 1 guy might be a fair exchange.
I think if we're going to figure then I have to figure that someone related to the victims is going to think it's not a fair exchange. 21 years for something like this is absurd. The police said he was facing 21 years and my previous post reflects the maximum sentence in Norway as being 21 years.
| 43 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:39:44pm |
re: #41 ggt
He'll be in the public eye the rest of his life. After the first 21, he'll be in the news at least every 5 years--keeping his ideas alive.
He wrote he had been working on the book for 9 years. He has planned it well.
But right wingers are saying there is no way to tell what made him snap...
| 44 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:40:22pm |
re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
But right wingers are saying there is no way to tell what made him snap...
I can speculate . . . .
| 45 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:43:16pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
I think if we're going to figure then I have to figure that someone related to the victims is going to think it's not a fair exchange. 21 years for something like this is absurd. The police said he was facing 21 years and my previous post reflects the maximum sentence in Norway as being 21 years.
He could be tried separately for each murder.
Just schedule each trial 21 years apart...
/
| 46 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:44:40pm |
If he is 32 now, and has been writing for 9 years --he started at 23.
The made-for-TV movies and pseudo-psych documentaries we are going to have to endure overwhelm me.
| 47 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:44:57pm |
re: #42 Gus 802
I think if we're going to figure then I have to figure that someone related to the victims is going to think it's not a fair exchange. 21 years for something like this is absurd. The police said he was facing 21 years and my previous post reflects the maximum sentence in Norway as being 21 years.
But that's not what's going to happen. If a prisoner is determined to be dangerous, their sentence gets reviewed every five years and they're kept in prison if they're determined to still be a danger.
I have no idea why people are fixiating on the 21 years part.
| 48 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:17pm |
Halden Prison - Luxury detention in Norway
Can luxury prisons and a more humane approach to detention be a deterrent for crime in modern society?
The answer lies in Halden, Norway.
About a 100 Km south of Oslo, a state of-the-art prison considered by many the World's most 'luxurious' has opened in June 2010, in a country already boasting criminal and rehabilitation systems of the highest standards.
Individual cells come with an en-suite bathroom, a flat-screen TV and various comforts. They measure 12mq and are divided up into units (10 to 12) which share a living room and kitchen, similarly to a students' dormitory.
The windows are not fitted with bars, but thick glass is used instead.
The prison - the second-largest in Norway - costs 165m Euro and accommodates 248 male inmates. Some 760,000 Euro were spent just on artworks, some of which commissioned to Norway's most renowned street artist, Dolk.
The inmates can attend a vast range of formative courses at a official high school located inside the prison. Subjects can include languages, IT, science, catering, music, (there is even a professional sound studio) art and handicraft and several sports.
The full-length feature story(*) considers whether the people involved feel that this notable investment is likely to achieve its main goals:
-the full rehabilitation of inmates during their prison term and their reintegration into civil society smoothly;
-the effective prevention of further crimes by the same offenders.
Interestingly, statistics show that in Norway only 20% of inmates (1 in 5) commit another crime and return to prison within two years of their release.
Halden Prison is set to push the number to a new low, but is the same care and investment effectively affordable to all?
| 49 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:27pm |
In other news, I'm reeeely hoping this upset stomach isn't an e-coli infection.
| 50 |
Targetpractice Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:35pm |
re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
But right wingers are saying there is no way to tell what made him snap...
I haven't been watching this all that closely. Have they already trotted out the "lone insane wolf" line?
| 51 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:46:18pm |
re: #34 ggt
I just tried to read some of the manifesto.
I don't think I"ll be finishing it.
I've been reading chunks of it all day. Methodical, erudite, consistent, and totally sociopathic. People are pawns to be moved on a chessboard. There is no conscience in it. No concept of humanity or pain.
He's a classic, this guy. He saved the village by destroying it. He killed the children for his vision of the greater good.
I think he truly believes that this will wake up the Norse to the dangers of multiculturalism and the looming threat of Muslim reproduction rates vs. White Euros to the looming disaster that is the ovethrow of Western thought and religion.
He is a Knight Templar in defense of Europe.
Cue The Twilight Zone theme music.
| 52 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:46:33pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Yep. In general, Norway has a great rehabilitative prison system and does an amazing job on cutting down on recidivism. It's the envy of many.
| 53 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:46:40pm |
re: #47 Obdicut
But that's not what's going to happen. If a prisoner is determined to be dangerous, their sentence gets reviewed every five years and they're kept in prison if they're determined to still be a danger.
I have no idea why people are fixiating on the 21 years part.
That would be good. Got a link? The 21 years was stated by the police.
| 54 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:47:14pm |
re: #47 Obdicut
But that's not what's going to happen. If a prisoner is determined to be dangerous, their sentence gets reviewed every five years and they're kept in prison if they're determined to still be a danger.
I have no idea why people are fixiating on the 21 years part.
Because it is unimaginable to us, here in the US.
We have such varied laws (state-to-state) and different ways of sentenceing people--such a cut-and-dried sentence is unknown.
He'll stay in prison and use it to his advantage.
Still haven't figured-out how much contact he'll be able to have with the outside world and if he'll be be able to benefit financially from anything he publishes or interviews he gives . . ..
I also wonder how much of his "wealth" is going to be depleted by the court system. I don't know how it works over there. Lawyer costs and all . . .
| 55 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:47:38pm |
re: #48 Gus 802
Gus, I understand what you're trying to say, but at some point you have to let it go. Norway gets to punish its criminals how it chooses and we have no say.
| 56 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:09pm |
re: #50 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
I haven't been watching this all that closely. Have they already trotted out the "lone insane wolf" line?
I've seen a few claiming "He snapped."
No one who writes a fucking manifesto and engages in a months of planning "snapped".
| 57 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:20pm |
re: #53 Gus 802
That would be good. Got a link? The 21 years was stated by the police.
You quoted it yourself in your post last thread, dude.
The maximum indeterminate penalty, called "containment" (Norwegian: forvaring), is also set at 21 years imprisonment, and the prisoner is required to serve at least 10 years before becoming eligible for parole. "Containment" is used when the prisoner is deemed a danger to society and there is a great chance of committing violent crimes in the future. If the prisoner is still considered dangerous after serving the original sentence, the prisoner can receive up to five years additional containment.
If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment. However, the offender can be paroled or released at any time if it is determined that the offender is no longer a danger to society.
| 58 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:31pm |
re: #55 JasonA
Gus, I understand what you're trying to say, but at some point you have to let it go. Norway gets to punish its criminals how it chooses and we have no say.
Oh I realize that. It's their country so if they're fine with 21 years it's not like my head is going to explode daily because of this.
| 59 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:52pm |
re: #52 Obdicut
Yep. In general, Norway has a great rehabilitative prison system and does an amazing job on cutting down on recidivism. It's the envy of many.
hmmm, but they haven't had a crime like this one.
I think the goal of ABB's recidivism is ZERO.
| 61 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:50:35pm |
| 62 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:50:36pm |
re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I've seen a few claiming "He snapped."
No one who writes a fucking manifesto and engages in a months of planning "snapped".
Yeah, he did. Sometime before he was 23. Something happened to cause him to seek this type of "membership". Wiki says his parents divorced when he was young, he was raised by his mother with his siblings . . .
I still want to know about the studio photos showing him looking so spiffy.
WTF?
| 63 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:51:12pm |
Damn. Look at this "cell".
[Link: alexmasi.photoshelter.com...]
| 64 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:51:41pm |
re: #63 Gus 802
Damn. Look at this "cell".
[Link: alexmasi.photoshelter.com...]
There are American's who would commit crimes to get digs so good.
| 65 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:52:16pm |
re: #61 Obdicut
Dude, it's okay, dude.
Dude. Alright dude. Hey dude. Man. Dude. Like...
I heard this over 50 something guy using the word dude every other sentence on July 4th. I wanted to punch him in the nose. ;)
| 67 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:52:29pm |
re: #40 Gus 802
It's not going to be in a box. It's going to be in a bedroom. This will be in a Norwegian prison not Rikers Island. This is the one at Halden:
Well that SURELY must be representative of every prison in Norway, and not at all a special case cherry-picked by a Fox News-type outlet in order to inflame outrage among the LAW-n-ORDER types.
NEVERTHELESS:
How many years do you think you could spend locked in a Motel 6 before going out of your mind?*
* - I had a completely different and much better point when I started blathering all this, but then I got distracted by my dog's insistence on PLAY TIME, and now that I've spent a few minutes engaging my dog in shenanigans, I haven't the slightest idea what point I was going to make. Obliquely, this illustrates the fact that dogs are better than humans. If you don't agree, I'll pay a homeless woman to shit on your favorite pillow. So there.
| 68 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:08pm |
re: #63 Gus 802
Damn. Look at this "cell".
[Link: alexmasi.photoshelter.com...]
And they feel this system has served them well. This crime we're looking at now is a major outlier.
| 69 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:20pm |
re: #63 Gus 802
The funny part to me is how many people get angry about how well prisoner's are treated in Norway, and just choose to ignore that it works.
They have incredibly low amounts of inmate violence, incredibly low amounts of recidivism. It's a really amazingly well-done system.
It's not entirely transportable here, because Norwegian society is also invested in giving the prisoners a second chance, whereas ours has a tendency to treat ex-felons as radioactive, but it's really worth study if we want to fix our prisons.
| 70 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:24pm |
re: #67 negativ
Well that SURELY must be representative of every prison in Norway, and not at all a special case cherry-picked by a Fox News-type outlet in order to inflame outrage among the LAW-n-ORDER types.
NEVERTHELESS:
How many years do you think you could spend locked in a Motel 6 before going out of your mind?*
* - I had a completely different and much better point when I started blathering all this, but then I got distracted by my dog's insistence on PLAY TIME, and now that I've spent a few minutes engaging my dog in shenanigans, I haven't the slightest idea what point I was going to make. Obliquely, this illustrates the fact that dogs are better than humans. If you don't agree, I'll pay a homeless woman to shit on your favorite pillow. So there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I fell for it. You know I'm just another redneck hick that watches Fox News every day. Dude.
//
| 71 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:29pm |
re: #67 negativ
Well that SURELY must be representative of every prison in Norway, and not at all a special case cherry-picked by a Fox News-type outlet in order to inflame outrage among the LAW-n-ORDER types.
NEVERTHELESS:
How many years do you think you could spend locked in a Motel 6 before going out of your mind?*
* - I had a completely different and much better point when I started blathering all this, but then I got distracted by my dog's insistence on PLAY TIME, and now that I've spent a few minutes engaging my dog in shenanigans, I haven't the slightest idea what point I was going to make. Obliquely, this illustrates the fact that dogs are better than humans. If you don't agree, I'll pay a homeless woman to shit on your favorite pillow. So there.
He is already lost his mind.
Prison is supossed to be horrible. It's kinda the point.
| 72 |
Targetpractice Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:54:02pm |
re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I've seen a few claiming "He snapped."
No one who writes a fucking manifesto and engages in a months of planning "snapped".
Yeah, I always love how the right-wing nutjobs have years long "snaps." Kinda like the serial killer who was "so normal," while he had twenty bodies under the floor boards of his house.
| 73 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:54:40pm |
| 74 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:55:00pm |
re: #69 Obdicut
but it's really worth study if we want to fix our prisons.
We don't. Not large numbers of us at least.
| 76 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:56:07pm |
re: #71 ggt
He is already lost his mind.
Prison is supossed to be horrible. It's kinda the point.
I thought the point was rehabilitation/incarceration.
| 77 |
Mocking Jay Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:56:22pm |
re: #72 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, I always love how the right-wing nutjobs have years long "snaps." Kinda like the serial killer who was "so normal," while he had twenty bodies under the floor boards of his house.
Hm. I dare say ABB's "snap" lasted longer than Hasan's...
| 78 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:56:29pm |
re: #71 ggt
Prison is supossed to be horrible. It's kinda the point.
No. The point should be that those who go to prison don't commit more crimes when they come out.
It's something the US has largely given up on, but Norway is very, very successful at.
| 80 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:57:05pm |
re: #69 Obdicut
The funny part to me is how many people get angry about how well prisoner's are treated in Norway, and just choose to ignore that it works.
They have incredibly low amounts of inmate violence, incredibly low amounts of recidivism. It's a really amazingly well-done system.
It's not entirely transportable here, because Norwegian society is also invested in giving the prisoners a second chance, whereas ours has a tendency to treat ex-felons as radioactive, but it's really worth study if we want to fix our prisons.
Do you think it is comparable. Their population is much different that ours. I think our crime is probably much different too--at least in scale.
I'd like to think that some parts of it could be implemented here, but by the time the inmate get's to prison it is often too late. Many do succeed, but it's a tough road.
In my perfect world, every child would get whatever he or she needs to thrive in the world . . . . ..
| 81 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:01pm |
re: #77 JasonA
Hm. I dare say ABB's "snap" lasted longer than Hasan's...
Same result, different religion.
| 82 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:11pm |
re: #78 Obdicut
No. The point should be that those who go to prison don't commit more crimes when they come out.
It's something the US has largely given up on, but Norway is very, very successful at.
I think the sentence should be long but I also think they should be allowed TVs, books, a bed, maybe a window. Heck, I'd say something like what I posted but a long sentence. I'd have to think about a final design for a prison cell. But I'm not one of those people that think prisoners should be put in an empty cell with a "concrete bed" and little or nothing else. But I feel funny mentioning this in this context considering. This asshole should be given the Osama bin Laden sentence.
| 83 |
Spocomptonite Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:16pm |
| 84 |
Lidane Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:27pm |
The video is at the link. I wasn't sure about posting it, but it's there if you have 12 minutes to spare.
| 85 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:00:00pm |
re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I thought the point was rehabilitation/incarceration.
Well, there seems to be some disagreement on that. And that is the problem, IMHO. Is it to punish and keep society safe from the individual or is it to rehabilitate the person?
As I understand it, Prison is to Punish. Under the current meme--legally speaking anyway.
WE try to do both and I think it is counterproductive.
If we poured 1/2 the money into individualized education that we pour into the prison system, we might make a difference.
| 86 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:00:05pm |
re: #80 ggt
Do you think it is comparable. Their population is much different that ours. I think our crime is probably much different too--at least in scale.
I think our society's attitudes towards prisoners-- that once you've gone to prison you're tainted forever-- is the main problem. There's very little open to someone who's a felon.
I'd like to think that some parts of it could be implemented here, but by the time the inmate get's to prison it is often too late. Many do succeed, but it's a tough road.
Except, of course, for all the non-violent felons who get to prison and are basically taught how to be even worse criminals. Our prisons are basically criminal training grounds.
| 87 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:00:14pm |
re: #78 Obdicut
No. The point should be that those who go to prison don't commit more crimes when they come out.
It's something the US has largely given up on, but Norway is very, very successful at.
Yeah but in Norway the prisoners go back to their nice neighborhood in beautiful Norway. They don't go back to the streets of Trenton or Camden.
| 88 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:01:47pm |
re: #87 Gus 802
Yeah but in Norway the prisoners go back to their nice neighborhood in beautiful Norway. They don't go back to the streets of Trenton or Camden.
Yep. And they go back to a system with a very strong socialist network, so they're not going to be immediately back in the same cycle of poverty that landed them in prison in the first place.
I wish I had some ginger for my stomach.
| 89 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:03:19pm |
re: #86 Obdicut
I think our society's attitudes towards prisoners-- that once you've gone to prison you're tainted forever-- is the main problem. There's very little open to someone who's a felon.
Except, of course, for all the non-violent felons who get to prison and are basically taught how to be even worse criminals. Our prisons are basically criminal training grounds.
The system sucks all the way around. Once a kid is in the system, they grow-up in it. It is sooo hard to get out of it with out parents who really want to help you and money.
There are a lot of inmates who simply learning to read would make all the difference, but that takes resources . . . .
The only answer I have is Contraception and Education.
Again, in my perfect world . . . .
| 90 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:03:22pm |
re: #84 Lidane
He just tied himself to the Tea Party by saying that.
This opens up brand new lanes hurt the Tea Party's ideology and image.
The European Anti-Muslim Movement has been heavily damaged, if not killed. Maybe this can help finish the TPGOP.
| 91 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:18pm |
re: #88 Obdicut
Yep. And they go back to a system with a very strong socialist network, so they're not going to be immediately back in the same cycle of poverty that landed them in prison in the first place.
I wish I had some ginger for my stomach.
Plus violent crimes are rare in Norway. Until now. They'll probably go back to being that way for a very long time. So the average prisoner isn't like the ones here where you get a lot of violent criminals. Yeah, it's complicated. I'll be long dead and it will still be screwed up because it's screwed up in the USA on many levels.
| 92 |
elizajane Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:28pm |
re: #86 Obdicut
I think our society's attitudes towards prisoners-- that once you've gone to prison you're tainted forever-- is the main problem. There's very little open to someone who's a felon.
One of the things that bugs me the most about the American political system (along with gerrymandering and campaign financing) is that convicted felons aren't allowed to vote, even after they've served their sentence. I find that genuinely shocking. There should be no way that the country can make somebody disappear as a political being, not after they've paid their penalty. It's just wrong.
| 93 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:34pm |
re: #90 ProLifeLiberal
He just tied himself to the Tea Party by saying that.
This opens up brand new lanes hurt the Tea Party's ideology and image.
The European Anti-Muslim Movement has been heavily damaged, if not killed. Maybe this can help finish the TPGOP.
Oh the Rationalization and Justification will be mind-boggling. Mix it with the Murdoch scandal and FOX will be a play-ground for the totally deluded.
| 94 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:39pm |
re: #84 Lidane
The video is at the link. I wasn't sure about posting it, but it's there if you have 12 minutes to spare.
Posted way earlier, home girl. Originally on YouTube, it got hauled down for violating terms-of-cervix-- err..service (sorry, it's late). Chilling, isn't it? The Knight Templar once again rescuing Europe from the ravaging horde.
By the way, I found out why the temps in Austin this year has been so high.
The Sun Is Too Damn Hot.
| 95 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:05:11pm |
re: #62 ggt
Yeah, he did. Sometime before he was 23.
I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.
It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.
| 96 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:05:36pm |
re: #94 austin_blue
Posted way earlier, home girl. Originally on YouTube, it got hauled down for violating terms-of-cervix-- err..service (sorry, it's late). Chilling, isn't it? The Knight Templar once again rescuing Europe from the ravaging horde.
By the way, I found out why the temps in Austin this year has been so high.
The Sun Is Too Damn Hot.
And the Rent is Too Damn High!
| 97 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:11pm |
re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.
It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.
Or laughing at his thingy.
:)
| 98 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:23pm |
| 99 |
Lidane Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:37pm |
re: #94 austin_blue
By the way, I found out why the temps in Austin this year has been so high.
The Sun Is Too Damn Hot.
And it's only going to get worse with all the hot air from Goodhair and his fellow reactionary nutjobs. =P
| 100 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:44pm |
re: #90 ProLifeLiberal
He just tied himself to the Tea Party by saying that.
This opens up brand new lanes hurt the Tea Party's ideology and image.
The European Anti-Muslim Movement has been heavily damaged, if not killed. Maybe this can help finish the TPGOP.
Doubtful. I hope you're right, but I think the GOTP is just getting started, personally.
| 101 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:51pm |
re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.
It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.
You think he is straight?
Or does he know?
| 102 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:07:42pm |
Alright. I'm going to take a bath and see if I can get my stomach to calm down.
Have a good night, all.
| 103 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:08:18pm |
re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.
It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.
Nine years is a long time to build that kind of whack worldview because a girl told you to get stuffed...
| 104 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:09:03pm |
re: #103 austin_blue
Nine years is a long time to build that kind of whack worldview because a girl told you to get stuffed...
Yeah, but he is a psychopath.
| 105 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:09:29pm |
re: #96 ggt
And the Rent is Too Damn High!
Tell me about it. Yeesh. Over 1 grand for a 1 bedroom. 1 grand! Every single month you have to come up with over 1 grand. Just for a stupid ugly little 1 bedroom.
| 106 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:09:45pm |
| 107 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:10:24pm |
re: #105 Gus 802
Tell me about it. Yeesh. Over 1 grand for a 1 bedroom. 1 grand! Every single month you have to come up with over 1 grand. Just for a stupid ugly little 1 bedroom.
Hey, in Chicago that could get you a studio.
Be thankful.
| 108 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:11:36pm |
Hitler was disgruntled because he wanted to be an artist but could sell his stuff or get accepted to art school or some such thing.
Sorry for the Godwin reference, but Psychpaths have strange triggers.
| 109 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:11:49pm |
| 110 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:11:54pm |
re: #107 ggt
Hey, in Chicago that could get you a studio.
Be thankful.
Yeesh. That's like buying 3 nice old used cars every year. I remember when I first moved to Denver a little over 20 years ago. I was paying $250 a month for a little carriage house. Wasn't the greatest but it had its charms. $250!
| 111 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:12:02pm |
re: #101 ggt
You think he is straight?
Or does he know?
Yeah, anything's possible. Though, I don't see him obsessing about the queers like the closet case rwnj males. That's something of a tell.
But yeah all this murderous drama could really just boil down to those reasons why he doesn't have a gf..
| 112 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:14:20pm |
re: #111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, anything's possible. Though, I don't see him obsessing about the queers like the closet case rwnj males. That's something of a tell.
But yeah all this murderous drama could really just boil down to those reasons why he doesn't have a gf..
Oh boy. If it does we'll never hear the end of it from the wingnuts.
| 113 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:15:01pm |
re: #111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, anything's possible. Though, I don't see him obsessing about the queers like the closet case rwnj males. That's something of a tell.
But yeah all this murderous drama could really just boil down to those reasons why he doesn't have a gf..
I get all Freudian about this stuff.
| 114 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:16:56pm |
re: #103 austin_blue
Nine years is a long time to build that kind of whack worldview because a girl told you to get stuffed...
Lol be a girl, tell a guy to go get stuffed, watch the pathology ensue.
Seriously though, these kind of rwnj males simply cannot compete in the modern world. The other men "steal" "their" women, "their own" women snicker at their d%ck size, they can't get anywhere with nonwhite women unless it's through force; immigration means there are more people to compete with..those things have gotta hurt when the government is no longer rigging things specifically in your favor like it did for dad and grampa.
| 115 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:17:34pm |
re: #114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol be a girl, tell a guy to go get stuffed, watch the pathology ensue.
Seriously though, these kind of rwnj males simply cannot compete in the modern world. The other men "steal" "their" women, "their own" women snicker at their d%ck size, they can't get anywhere with nonwhite women unless it's through force; immigration means there are more people to compete with..those things have gotta hurt when the government is no longer rigging things specifically in your favor like it did for dad and grampa.
[Video]
overcompensation . . . .
| 116 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:20:29pm |
re: #109 ProLifeLiberal
re: #100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
But the TPGOP will dwindle. They are demographically boxed in.
True, and also dying off.
There is another generation of angry-bitters just chock full of the same old resentments, though. Ex, Breitbart, Loesch, Kris Kobach, etc. These jerks never disappear, they just morph into something else.
| 117 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:20:53pm |
re: #114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol be a girl, tell a guy to go get stuffed, watch the pathology ensue.
Seriously though, these kind of rwnj males simply cannot compete in the modern world. The other men "steal" "their" women, "their own" women snicker at their d%ck size, they can't get anywhere with nonwhite women unless it's through force; immigration means there are more people to compete with..those things have gotta hurt when the government is no longer rigging things specifically in your favor like it did for dad and grampa.
[Video]
Men have probably been like that since prehistoric times. I picture some caveman in his late 20s (which would be ancient in those times) complaining that all of the women around his cave have to be lesbians because he still hasn't found a mate.
//
| 118 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:22:03pm |
re: #99 Lidane
And it's only going to get worse with all the hot air from Goodhair and his fellow reactionary nutjobs. =P
I figure just after the Day of Prayer, he makes a decision. Everybody who finances GOP candidates is keeping their powder dry. Pointy Boots/Good Hair is calling all the big money down to Austin to chat (something he never did with the media in Texas).
I'm thinking they are asking him two questions.
Can you be trusted to be on point on the stump? (Answer: Hell yes. I'm great on the stump!)
And he is. Great campaigner.
Is it a problem that you haven't slept with your wife, Anita, since your daughter Sydney was born? (Answer: No problem. My family is on board with this, and no one in Texas is going to talk about my sex life. Just ask my Lieutenant Governor.)
This might be a problem for Pointy Boots/Good Hair.
| 119 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:22:17pm |
re: #116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
True, and also dying off.
There is another generation of angry-bitters just chock full of the same old resentments, though. Ex, Breitbart, Loesch, Kris Kobach, etc. These jerks never disappear, they just morph into something else.
Growing-up Mommy tells you that you are Special. When you grow-up you find that it is only in her eyes that you are THAT special.
Reality is tough . . .
| 120 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:23:30pm |
re: #119 ggt
Growing-up Mommy tells you that you are Special. When you grow-up you find that it is only in her eyes that you are THAT special.
Reality is tough . . .
YOU SAID SPECIAL!
| 121 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:23:52pm |
| 122 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:24:22pm |
I have to sleep.
Have a great morning all!
Wish I could say the same for the families in Norway. . . .
| 123 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:25:43pm |
| 124 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:29:56pm |
| 125 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:31:56pm |
| 126 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:32:30pm |
Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.
| 127 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:32:32pm |
| 128 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:34:20pm |
re: #126 goddamnedfrank
Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.
Him and Pam Geller = worst blogparents, ever.
| 129 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:35:02pm |
re: #126 goddamnedfrank
Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.
I made the mistake of looking at GoV:
Perhaps he radically changed his politics since his last post to document.no in Oct 2010 (see below). Can we see any writings of his between Oct 2010 and July 2011?
| 130 |
austin_blue Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:35:07pm |
re: #126 goddamnedfrank
Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.
But...but...he's a CJ fan!
The time has now come for Mr. Johnson to apologise in public to the numerous people he has smeared since the fall of 2007, starting with the ones I have mentioned above. It's not their credibility that's on the line here. It's his. If he continues to undermine those confronting Islamic infiltration, it will become increasingly difficult for LGF to present itself as an anti-Jihad website at all. At some point, the rapidly shrinking number of people in the northern hemisphere who haven't been banned from the site yet will be forced to ask themselves whether the website and its owner have simply switched teams and joined the Dark Side.
| 131 |
Gus Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:37:42pm |
re: #126 goddamnedfrank
Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.
These internet anti-Jihadists are so over the top. Think about it. Most have been at it every single day of the week for almost 10 years. Every single day filled with rage about Muslims possibly during their ever waking minute. Could you imagine such a life? So consumed with such hatred and fear 24/7?
| 133 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:39:28pm |
And the GoV has officially labeled him a "lone wolf" because:
There are no violent “anti-Muslim” groups in Norway.
| 134 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:43:03pm |
re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
He hasn't seen the manifesto, has he?
| 135 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:45:09pm |
re: #134 ProLifeLiberal
He hasn't seen the manifesto, has he?
What manifesto! Where!
Charles Johnson wrote that!
What!!
| 136 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:45:50pm |
re: #134 ProLifeLiberal
He hasn't seen the manifesto, has he?
He mentioned it is comments, and has gone with the "No true counter-jihadi" argument.
| 137 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:48:56pm |
re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
He's trying to save himself, which it is likely too late for.
| 138 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:54:27pm |
re: #130 austin_blue
But...but...he's a CJ fan!
He's a alinsky 57 states teleprmpter terrorist progressive kkk democrat party liberal!
| 139 |
Gus Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:02:35am |
re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
He mentioned it is comments, and has gone with the "No true counter-jihadi" argument.
In a couple of weeks he'll be back to defending and singing the praises of the English Nazi Party EDL, Slobodan Milošević, and Mladic while his fellow rodent like readership cult followers will still be claiming that Srebrenica was a "hoax".
| 140 |
austin_blue Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:29:07am |
re: #138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
He's a alinsky 57 states teleprmpter terrorist progressive kkk democrat party liberal!
Yes, that would be the domestic equivalent here in the States.
One of the most chilling posts from the manifesto was posted down thread where he stated that the chance of one man being identified before he could act was 30%, two people around 50%, &c, finally saying that a group of six had a 94% chance of being interdicted before thy could act.
I think he might be right. The smaller the conspiracy, the more likely it will not come up on the radar. This is a huge problem for law enforcement. It does appear that one man, sufficiently motivated, can change the world.
The question is, what does a society do about it? There are over 300 million people in this country. Do we clamp down on everything? Or do we accept that Tim McVeighs pop up every once in a while?
Discuss!
| 141 |
MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:37:24am |
Charles said:
Move on up
towards your destination
Though you may find
from time to time
Complications— Curtis Mayfield
Here's something from Curtis that's somewhat germane to what's been going on lately:
If you had a choice of color
Which one would you choose my brothers
If there was no day or night
Which would you prefer to be right
How long have you hated your white teacher
Who told you, you love your black preacher
Do you respect your brother's woman friend
And share with black folks not of kin
People must prove to the people
A better day is coming for you and for me
With just a little bit more education
And love for our nation
Would make a better societyNow some of us would rather cuss and make a fuss
Than to bring about a little trust
But we shall overcome our beliefs someday
If you'll only listen to what I have to say
And how long have you hated your white teacher
Who told you, you love your black preacher
Can you respect your brother's woman friend
And share with black folks not of kin
I said now people must prove to the people
A better day is coming for you and for me
With just a little bit more education
And love for our nation
Would make a better society
And if you had a choice of colors
Which one would you choose my brothers
If there was no day or night
Which would you prefer to be right
And If you had a choice of colors
Which one would you choose my brothers
If there was no day or night
Which would you prefer to be right
BTW, glad to be back after a week-and-a-half backpacking in the mountains of northeast NM...pics forthcoming ;-P
| 143 |
Kragar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:39:17am |
re: #140 austin_blue
In a free society, you have to expect there will be those who abuse the opportunities provided to them. The problem is striking a balance between protecting the citizens while encouraging their freedom.
| 144 |
laZardo Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:40:45am |
REHAB? I SAY NO, NO, NO!
/i just got to seattle and it's already an old joke :C
| 145 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:52:03am |
re: #140 austin_blue
Yes, that would be the domestic equivalent here in the States.
One of the most chilling posts from the manifesto was posted down thread where he stated that the chance of one man being identified before he could act was 30%, two people around 50%, &c, finally saying that a group of six had a 94% chance of being interdicted before thy could act.
I think he might be right. The smaller the conspiracy, the more likely it will not come up on the radar. This is a huge problem for law enforcement. It does appear that one man, sufficiently motivated, can change the world.
The question is, what does a society do about it? There are over 300 million people in this country. Do we clamp down on everything? Or do we accept that Tim McVeighs pop up every once in a while?
Discuss!
If the targets of these people waited for "society" or law enforcement to clamp down or move beyond the navel-gazing of contemplating the existence of the Tim McVeighs, we'd still be in chains or just simply dead.
Law enforcement sees a bunch of us as natural criminals, anyway.
| 146 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:03:09am |
re: #5 Virginia Plain
I can't get through Breivik's long winded book. I'm still in the history part. Man this POS did not like women that much.
Well, he obviously did not go on a lot of dates, too busy writing his book...
| 149 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:10:16am |
| 150 |
laZardo Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:10:50am |
| 151 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:12:21am |
What is going on with the html tags?
Once again w/o tags:
Why do we use thee here Arabic numerals instead of perfectly decent, Christian Roman ones?
| 152 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:18:11am |
It is just a knee-jerk reaction to anything vaguely Arabic or Islamic. At least it not used to justify mass violence...yet.
| 155 |
Kragar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:45:31am |
| 156 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:56:06am |
re: #155 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Don't look at me. I use binary.
Can't use binary without a zero...
| 157 |
laZardo Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:01:41am |
So...uh... this is rather awkward of me to ask but I'd like a few pointers to help myself get settled here.
I've got "restoring my CD back to Checking" and "driver's license" but it's Sunday. Also getting to know the transport system.
| 158 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:10:35am |
re: #157 laZardo
Buy an umbrella. And make small talk by mentioning the fact that the Mariners have lost 14 games in a row. And wear a USC shirt everywhere. And tell the locals that fancy coffees are for pussies.:)
| 159 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:12:19am |
re: #157 laZardo
So...uh... this is rather awkward of me to ask but I'd like a few pointers to help myself get settled here.
I've got "restoring my CD back to Checking" and "driver's license" but it's Sunday. Also getting to know the transport system.
Where's "here"?
| 161 |
laZardo Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:12:48am |
re: #159 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Deepinnahearta Seattle.
| 162 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:15:09am |
I only have about 5 hours to decide if I want to go boating or stay home and redo my POS resume.
| 163 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:18:23am |
re: #157 laZardo
So...uh... this is rather awkward of me to ask but I'd like a few pointers to help myself get settled here.
I've got "restoring my CD back to Checking" and "driver's license" but it's Sunday. Also getting to know the transport system.
What part of Seattle are you in? Almost all my friends are still in Seattle, let me know what you need. Best cheap Thai food is Thai Tom in the U District. Atlantic Street Pizza is really good. Bauhaus and Cafe Vivace are some of the better coffee options. Apparently Broadway on Capitol Hill is now pretty much a shithole so don't take your posse there ...
| 164 |
Kruk Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:21:09am |
re: #92 elizajane
One of the things that bugs me the most about the American political system (along with gerrymandering and campaign financing) is that convicted felons aren't allowed to vote, even after they've served their sentence. I find that genuinely shocking. There should be no way that the country can make somebody disappear as a political being, not after they've paid their penalty. It's just wrong.
Call me naive, but I believe that "paying your debt to society" means just that. You transgress, you pay the price, and you start out again at the end of it with all the rights and privileges of a free citizen. Marking someone as damaged goods for the rest of their lives reduces the chances of rehabilitation and reintergration, and that costs all of us.
| 165 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:22:20am |
re: #164 Kruk
That is another heritage of our puritanical fundamentalist heritage: God might forgive you for your transgressions, but we wont!
| 166 |
Kragar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:22:30am |
| 167 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:23:01am |
| 168 |
laZardo Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:23:09am |
re: #163 goddamnedfrank
Pine. Or Pike. One of those "Pi_e" streets.
| 169 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:11am |
re: #164 Kruk
In Florida, you get all your rights restored if you're a convicted felon, except owning a firearm. And it seems every job needs a background check for the most part. And some won't even bother talking to you if you are a felon, although some employers only go back 5, 7 or 10 years.
| 171 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:29:16am |
re: #168 laZardo
Pine. Or Pike. One of those "Pi_e" streets.
Downtown, Capitol Hill, or Madrona?
I used to live at Eastlake and Harrison, right next to St. Spiridon's orthodox cathedral.
| 173 |
laZardo Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:39:29am |
Hurf. Gonna sleep and try to neutralize jetlag. Catch yall in the moarning.
| 174 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:40:59am |
"The stalker blog lies about Breivik's manifesto's mentions of LGF/Charles Johnson"
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 175 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:41:06am |
SCIENCE!!!!
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
| 176 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:41:23am |
re: #172 laZardo
Near the state convention center.
Cool, Bauhaus Coffee is just up the street from you @ 301 East Pine, just on the other side of I-5, good place to chill out, read, or just sit and stare at the city.
| 178 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:50:06am |
re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar
This is going to get picked apart by budget-busters as a classic waste of taxpayer dollars.
| 179 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:51:01am |
re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar
SCIENCE!!!
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]
I went to the UW, home of the original BAR Lab:
The BARLAB is famous for its expectancy studies, where students who receive placebo, non-alcoholic drinks are monitored closely to observe the changes in their behavior. People who believe they are receiving alcohol can become relaxed and will criticize people more or exhibit other strong placebo effects, Marlatt said.
“After they see the effects, they start drinking less,” Marlatt said. “They begin to realize there is more than just alcohol going on here. The setting can have an effect. After people realize that, they realize they don’t need to consume as much.”
| 180 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:52:37am |
sheik yer'mami said...Oslo-Attentäter liebte die Filme des Palästinenser-Freundes und Israel-Hassers Lars von Trier
Translation: Oslo assassin loved the flicks of Pali-friend & Israel hater Lars von Trier:
[...]
Besides, the "little island paradise" is not a place for 'children', but a commie indoctrination camp:
Strange ‘paradise’. A socialist summer camp i(ndoctrination centre) for ‘community organizers’. Spending time at a hate Israel, Marxist labour camp doesn’t sound like ’paradise’ to me. Am I the only one that thinks a Government (Party indoctrination) summer camp for kids is creepy?
Please note that the media blasted the blood splattered bodies from the Oslo explosions (white Norwegians) all around the world the same day, front page news.No holding back.
However, you don't get any close-us whatsoever from the Island.
But take a look at the video, just to see what kind of people these 'children' are.
[...]
| 181 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:20am |
| 182 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:49am |
re: #179 goddamnedfrank
I could never be a part of that kind of study because of what I drink when I drink. But younger people drink booze with plenty of mixer, I suppose.
| 183 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:04:06am |
re: #181 ralphieboy
I'm sure he does think exactly that. BTW, he is another banned LGF commenter.
| 184 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:11am |
re: #183 Sergey Romanov
I'm sure he does think exactly that. BTW, he is another banned LGF commenter.
So did Ronald Reagan. I am looking for the quote from his speech, but what he said was basically that our children would be better off dead than growing up under godless communism.
| 185 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:53am |
re: #184 ralphieboy
Yeah, I know. Reagan was a vile piece of shit.
| 186 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:07:25am |
re: #185 Sergey Romanov
Yeah, I know. Reagan was a vile piece of shit.
He was moderate by modern conservative standards...
| 187 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:08:02am |
re: #186 ralphieboy
That too. Although at least Bush did not sponsor the death squads.
| 189 |
Kragar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:22:51am |
| 190 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:22:53am |
re: #187 Sergey Romanov
That too. Although at least Bush did not sponsor the death squads.
Bush was also way too moderate for modern conservatives...
| 191 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:23:24am |
re: #189 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
There are new Breiviks in the making.
| 192 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:25:46am |
re: #191 Sergey Romanov
There are new Breiviks in the making.
That is what scares me. There are lotsa dateless wonders like this guy out there waiting for something to set them off.
I advocate institution the Guaranteed Annual Lay. As long as fellows like this know that they stand a chance of getting somewhere with a woman at least once a year, it would encourage them to direct their energies elsewhere.
| 193 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:27:38am |
re: #192 ralphieboy
It doesn't seem to have been a problem for him.
| 194 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:28:58am |
re: #193 Sergey Romanov
It doesn't seem to have been a problem for him.
You mean he was teh gey? You see!!! We need DOMA and DADT or we will be overrun by gay mass murderers!!!
| 196 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:29am |
re: #194 ralphieboy
No, apparently he didn't have a problem getting laid.
| 197 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:58am |
re: #191 Sergey Romanov
There are new Breiviks in the making.
There are two huge dangers from this.
1. New Breiviks. Guys who will actually use his instruction manual as inspiration or will have been inspired by the event itself.
2. New Breiviks: Guys who are inspired from the same sources he was, like Gates of Vienna, Geert Wilders, and the rest of the insane right-wing that even now in this moment cannot see how their language and rhetoric was a clear call for this to happen.
#2 I think is the most dangerous. If you look at all those right-wing blogs, none of them are saying "You know, we do equate being a liberal who's pro-immigration to being a traitor. We do claim that the moment to act is now, or Europe will be lost forever. We do claim that the ordinary political process is broken and won't be sufficient. So the logical outcome is that someone who believes us will actually resort to violence and terrorism."
They're all attempting to deflect, to say "Well, we didn't call for violence, so it couldn't have come from us." They're not taking any responsibility.
Really, they're caught on the horns of dilemma; if they're serious in what they say, that this is a unique moment in history where Islam is poised to overrun Europe, that liberals are enabling that, and that things will be relentlessly horrible for Europeans afterwards, then they should be applauding this guy's actions, or at least only deploring that he killed teenagers. Because if things are as bad as they claim that they are, as desperate, then this is a logical outcome.
If this isn't a logical outcome, if attempting to spread the word of the danger of Muslim aggression isn't of such paramount importance, if it's not actually worth killing over, if things can be handled just fine through the ordinary political process, then what have they been yammering about?
| 198 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:30:11am |
Well, the Swedish girl wouldn't, but the Norwegian would...
| 199 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:30:22am |
re: #193 Sergey Romanov
It doesn't seem to have been a problem for him.
Was he a ladies man? I haven't seen (or looked) for anything in these regards. He was good looking, apparently somewhat rich and smart.
| 200 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:31:25am |
I read in his comments that he was a bit of a misogynist, but there are lotsa women who seem to go for that type...
| 201 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:32:37am |
re: #197 Obdicut
To support my point, here's a quote from Fjordman:
In many cases you can compromise, but in others you cannot. If somebody tries to poison you then you have to resist. It doesn’t matter in the long run whether those who do this do so because they deliberately want to kill you or because they are fools who accidentally kill you while intending to do something noble. The bottom line is: You die. You cannot be slightly dead, just like you cannot be slightly pregnant. If the Leftists and the Globalists have their way then our civilization will die, plain and simple. That’s why this ongoing struggle is likely to get ugly, because no compromise is possible. Since similar ideological struggles are taking place throughout the Western world, this situation could trigger a pan-Western Civil War.
That he puts it in the passive 'get ugly' doesn't really rescue this from being a clear call to action. There's no compromise-- which is the political solution. So what is left?
| 202 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:33:29am |
re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar
He elaborates on this a bit in his diary. I don't get the feeling that was the problem. The problem was his ideology, not personal problems.
| 203 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:35:07am |
re: #202 Sergey Romanov
He elaborates on this a bit in his diary. I don't get the feeling that was the problem. The problem was his ideology, not personal problems.
I tried to load his manifesto yesterday, but couldn't get it to open. I was gonna link it on my FB along with your page from here.
| 204 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:35:55am |
re: #203 Cannadian Club Akbar
Better not link to that terror manual.
| 205 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:38:32am |
re: #202 Sergey Romanov
He elaborates on this a bit in his diary. I don't get the feeling that was the problem. The problem was his ideology, not personal problems.
His ideology was a vehicle for his psychosis.
If ideology alone was the driving force, then right wing ideology has been remarkably ineffective, given the pervasiveness of that ideology.
People espouse all kinds of ideology without engaging in homicidal behavior. Ideology can only trigger a dysfunction that exists.
| 206 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:38:39am |
re: #204 Sergey Romanov
Better not link to that terror manual.
Nobody on my FB would read it anyway. If there isn't a pic of a kitten or a puppy, they don't bother. FB is such a waste of time, for the most part.
| 207 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:39:20am |
re: #201 Obdicut
I only hope that 1500 pages will scare away most of the potential contingent. And his explanations of how to make this or that require some prior knowledge. Still, a smart one can get through it, and they already see that such tactics are "successful", so yeah, it's scary.
| 208 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:41:19am |
Another thing is his obsession with "Knights Templar" and masons. Far right usually doesn't like this stuff.
| 209 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:42:38am |
re: #208 Sergey Romanov
Another thing is his obsession with "Knights Templar" and masons. Far right usually doesn't like this stuff.
I've seen stuff on masons from kook fringe sites. AJ and such.
| 210 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:43:40am |
re: #209 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yeah, they believe in masonic/KT anti-Western conspiracies, while AB, himself a freemason, writes about these matters only positively.
| 211 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:00am |
This guy had sanity in the rear view mirror for a long time
| 212 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:38am |
re: #208 Sergey Romanov
Another thing is his obsession with "Knights Templar" and masons. Far right usually doesn't like this stuff.
Well, I've seen imagery similar to it flickering up, about how the anti-Jihadists are like knights or crusaders. Even "Gates of Vienna" is such a callback.
If you mean the semi-mystical, esoteric order nature of it, then yeah, absolutely.
| 213 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:54am |
This sounds like a similar story with Loughner - he was a maniac and simply responded to any sort of ideology or philosophy that appealed to his warped world-view.
Makes it nearly impossible to pin a label on him, and makes it even easier for those who associate violence, right or left-wing, to distance themselves from his actions.
| 214 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:46:33am |
re: #213 ralphieboy
I don't think it's similar to Loughner at all. Loughner did not have any coherent ideology, he couldn't tie 2 words together, although he does seem to have been influences by Libertariannish views.
AB has a whole, complete, rationalized worldview.
| 215 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:47:08am |
Breivik is being called a Christian fundamentalist even though he was a Freemason and supporter of such vile Zionist Islamophobes as Pam Geller and Richard Pipes.
This is a line from an article on AJ's site. Dated today. Apparently the author thinks it is a Mossad plot.
| 216 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:47:50am |
re: #214 Sergey Romanov
I don't think it's similar to Loughner at all. Loughner did not have any coherent ideology, he couldn't tie 2 words together, although he does seem to have been influences by Libertariannish views.
AB has a whole, complete, rationalized worldview.
Ah, but Loughner's ideology was coherent to himself.
This guy was more functional and coherent, but just as dysfunctional.
| 217 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:22am |
re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar
Like I immediately said to Obdi, it will be blamed on Jews, and it has been.
| 218 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:42am |
re: #213 ralphieboy
This sounds like a similar story with Loughner - he was a maniac and simply responded to any sort of ideology or philosophy that appealed to his warped world-view.
Makes it nearly impossible to pin a label on him, and makes it even easier for those who associate violence, right or left-wing, to distance themselves from his actions.
Not in the least. Loughner's writing is incoherent, his logic pitiful.
This guy reached the logical conclusion of the arguments made by the anti-Jihadi right wing. If this is a struggle of civilizations, if liberals are traitors, if there is no compromise, then what he did makes perfect sense.
And that is what these assholes have been claiming, for years, now.
| 219 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:49:57am |
| 220 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:50:26am |
re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
And PETA member.
| 221 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:50:41am |
re: #218 Obdicut
Not in the least. Loughner's writing is incoherent, his logic pitiful.
This guy reached the logical conclusion of the arguments made by the anti-Jihadi right wing. If this is a struggle of civilizations, if liberals are traitors, if there is no compromise, then what he did makes perfect sense.
And that is what these assholes have been claiming, for years, now.
Coherence is not a measure of sanity. Never has been.
There are very dysfunctional people who are most reasonable and coherent.
| 222 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:51:01am |
re: #216 researchok
Ah, but Loughner's ideology was coherent to himself.
This guy was more functional and coherent, but just as dysfunctional.
That's pretty facile statement. First of all, you have no idea if Loughner's ideology was consistent to himself, whether or not he actually operated with a large framework or just stumbled from belief to belief.
Second of all, calling this guy dysfunctional is just-- yeah, well, duh. Of course he's dysfunctional. So is a guy who beats his wife. That's not really the point.
This guy is like Timothy McVeigh or like an Islamic terrorist. He is not like Loughner.
| 223 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:52:18am |
re: #222 Obdicut
Me thinks Loughner's ideology depended on the last CD he listened to.
| 224 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:52:43am |
re: #221 researchok
Coherence is not a measure of sanity. Never has been.
There are very dysfunctional people who are most reasonable and coherent.
There are various pathologies that can be diagnosed. Incoherence is certainly part of some of those pathologies. So yes, it is 'a' measure of sanity. It's not the only one.
Whether this guy was insane or not is a subjective opinion based on where you're drawing the line between sanity and evil. But he was nothing at all like Loughner.
| 225 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:52:53am |
re: #222 Obdicut
His fellow ideologues now say - but there is no connection between what he did and what he espoused! And yet what he did was just the logical consequence of their ideology, as you've shown.
| 226 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:54:51am |
I meant "similar" to Loughner only in the sense that one cannot simply align either of them with a particular existing ideology or political party. They were both little worlds unto themselves.
And being deranged, they did not have to be consistent or coherent to anyone but themselves.
| 227 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:55:06am |
re: #222 Obdicut
That's pretty facile statement. First of all, you have no idea if Loughner's ideology was consistent to himself, whether or not he actually operated with a large framework or just stumbled from belief to belief.
Second of all, calling this guy dysfunctional is just-- yeah, well, duh. Of course he's dysfunctional. So is a guy who beats his wife. That's not really the point.
This guy is like Timothy McVeigh or like an Islamic terrorist. He is not like Loughner.
From the outside, the differences between Loughner and this guy are apparent.
Loughner believed his actions were quite reasonable. in the same way this guy did.
The only possible distinction is Loughner was on meds- though there is no telling if the Oslo killer were under care, meds might have been prescribed for him.
| 228 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:56:31am |
re: #226 ralphieboy
I think he can be very much aligned to a very particular strain of thought.
| 229 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:56:58am |
re: #225 Sergey Romanov
His fellow ideologues now say - but there is no connection between what he did and what he espoused! And yet what he did was just the logical consequence of their ideology, as you've shown.
Does that mean Marx, et, al, were responsible for Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao, etc and the millions of deaths they caused?
| 230 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:57:22am |
Norm: My doctor tried to scare me out of smoking. My doc, he showed me a picture of a smokers lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting. Then he showed me a picture of a healthy guys lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting.
| 231 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:59:05am |
re: #228 Sergey Romanov
I think he can be very much aligned to a very particular strain of thought.
Let me re-phrase that, as I generally agree with you: those with whom his strain of thought can be aligned have lots of rhetorical tools available to deny any connection.
I just remember all the attempts to paint Loughner as a leftist because he smoked pot (which only leftists do) and had an interest in a number of works associated with leftism.
One can find all sorts of arguments to apply to Brevik - especially that he was a "big fan of LGF"...
| 232 |
AK-47% Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:59:50am |
re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Norm: My doctor tried to scare me out of smoking. My doc, he showed me a picture of a smokers lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting. Then he showed me a picture of a healthy guys lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting.
organs are disgusting. best to take them out and replace them with a system of mechanical pumps and filters.
| 233 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:00:04am |
re: #227 researchok
From the outside, the differences between Loughner and this guy are apparent.
Yeah. That's where we are.
Loughner believed his actions were quite reasonable. in the same way this guy did.
Then it seems to me useless to assert that, because there's a very, very small minority of people who don't believe that their actions are reasonable.
The only possible distinction is Loughner was on meds- though there is no telling if the Oslo killer were under care, meds might have been prescribed for him.
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous to me. That's the only distinction between Loughner, whose views are so nuts as to be incomprehensible to others, and this guy, whose views are nearly identical to thousands of right-wing anti-Muslim bloggers?
Isn't that a rather big distinction?
| 234 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:00:56am |
re: #231 ralphieboy
Loughner was also thought to be a TPer right out of the gate, including a thread here.
| 235 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:01:45am |
re: #229 researchok
Marx - only in an indirect way, since the way of violence is not inherent in what they taught. Lenin, on the other hand, is directly responsible.
The "counter-Jihad" complex we have now has no logical consequences but abrogation of civil rights of whole groups of people - at the minimum.
| 236 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:05:08am |
re: #233 Obdicut
Yeah. That's where we are.
Then it seems to me useless to assert that, because there's a very, very small minority of people who don't believe that their actions are reasonable.
I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous to me. That's the only distinction between Loughner, whose views are so nuts as to be incomprehensible to others, and this guy, whose views are nearly identical to thousands of right-wing anti-Muslim bloggers?
Isn't that a rather big distinction?
No, it is not.
People to this day believe Che was 'reasonable' because they 'understand' his writings- and this was the guy who shot women and children himself. Does his 'reasonableness' somehow make his murders more acceptable?
Castro too, was directly responsible for untold deaths- does the fact his .manifesto' made sense to many in any way mitigate his homicidal tendencies?
There are fall down drunks and there are functional alcoholics.
Different wards, same disease.
| 237 |
BongCrodny Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:51am |
re: #169 Cannadian Club Akbar
In Florida, you get all your rights restored if you're a convicted felon, except owning a firearm. And it seems every job needs a background check for the most part. And some won't even bother talking to you if you are a felon, although some employers only go back 5, 7 or 10 years.
Yep.
A few months back, a close friend had an interview with a "national pest control company." (There probably aren't many of those that reach "national" status, so you can probably figure out who.)
He made it past the first interview and went on a sample "house call" where the company rep told him he asked the right questions. The final step was a simulated sales pitch, where he had to get the "homeowner" to sign one of three contracts. If he did that, he was in. He got one of the contracts signed.
Then came the background check. Twenty years ago, he did a few months in jail for dealing cocaine. (My friend is not Tony Montana here; the amounts we're talking about might have kept Charlie Sheen happy for a night or two.)
Dropped him like the proverbial hot potato.
So, yeah: twenty years of keeping your nose clean (literally!) counts for jack shit in this country.
| 238 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:28am |
re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
That was Norm McDonald. Whenever complete asshole murdering rationalizing nutjobs pop up I think about this Norm McDonald story...
There's crazy guys everywhere. I was reading about this guy in the paper. Get this, folks. The guy I was reading about, he killed his whole family because the devil told him to. Do you believe that? What a dork, huh? That was the headline in the paper. It said, "What a Dork!"
Imagine, eh? You kill your whole family just because the devil tells you. Then afterwards you go back and you go, "Yes, Devil. I did as you instructed. I killed my family, slaughtered them as they were sleeping, then I chopped them up and put them in a duffle bag. Here they are in a duffle bag. I'll be burying them tonight in the shallow grave by the side of the railroad track as you have commanded, oh, Lord, host of the hoary neverworld."
You know, then the devil pulls off the mask, "It's me, Bob!"
You go, "Oh, Bob! Jeeze, You got me, Bob. You got me here. Is my face red or what here? I got my family in a duffle bag over here. Well, that's one for you there, Bobby."
Sometimes, you just don't listen to the voices in your head.
| 239 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:35am |
re: #236 researchok
People also believe Reagan and Pinochet were reasonable, though they were also responsible for untold numbers of deaths, incl. women and children.
| 240 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:08:32am |
re: #236 researchok
People to this day believe Che was 'reasonable' because they 'understand' his writings- and this was the guy who shot women and children himself. Does his 'reasonableness' somehow make his murders more acceptable?
Why are you talking about making murders acceptable?
How does that relate?
Castro too, was directly responsible for untold deaths- does the fact his .manifesto' made sense to many in any way mitigate his homicidal tendencies?
Why are you talking about mitigation?
| 241 |
Winny Spencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:08:41am |
re: #234 Cannadian Club Akbar
Loughner was also thought to be a TPer right out of the gate, including a thread here.
Well, ultimately he turned out to be a Paultard with some added idiosyncratic craziness , so that wasn't too far off the mark.
| 242 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:09:17am |
re: #239 Sergey Romanov
I'm not even talking about Bush and his voluntary Iraq adventure, which cost at least 100000 lives and maybe more. Is Bush dysfunctional?
| 243 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:09:43am |
re: #237 BongCrodny
I'm actually waiting to hear about a job. They asked if I was honest with them (I was) about prior problems. They said it shouldn't be a problem. We'll see.
| 244 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:10:21am |
re: #235 Sergey Romanov
Marx - only in an indirect way, since the way of violence is not inherent in what they taught. Lenin, on the other hand, is directly responsible.
The "counter-Jihad" complex we have now has no logical consequences but abrogation of civil rights of whole groups of people - at the minimum.
I disagree. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.
The vast majority of wingnuts are not voplent.
The vast majority of moonbats are not violent.
The vast majority of Jews, Christians and Muslims are non violent.
Despite extreme ideologies that are found within each of those groups, violence is only acceptable to very few, relatively speaking. Ideologies may trigger a certain response to an already dysfunctional person.
| 245 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:12:15am |
re: #239 Sergey Romanov
People also believe Reagan and Pinochet were reasonable, though they were also responsible for untold numbers of deaths, incl. women and children.
There is a great distinction between Reagan and the others you mentioned.
| 246 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:13:32am |
re: #245 researchok
There is a great distinction between Reagan and the others you mentioned.
Supports the narrative.
| 247 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:13:46am |
re: #242 Sergey Romanov
I'm not even talking about Bush and his voluntary Iraq adventure, which cost at least 100000 lives and maybe more. Is Bush dysfunctional?
Do you want to compare what drove Bush versus what drove Saddam?
| 248 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:13:48am |
re: #237 BongCrodny
and one other quick thing. Your friend needed to be bonded. When you deal with going into other peoples houses, things are more strict.
| 249 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:14:14am |
re: #244 researchok
Most of the Germans accepting the Nazi ideology weren't violent and didn't want any genocide. But there is an link between the Nazi ideology and genocide.
| 250 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:06am |
re: #247 researchok
Whatever drove Bush seemed reasonable to him, yet resulted in at least 100000 predictable deaths.
| 251 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:14am |
re: #240 Obdicut
Why are you talking about making murders acceptable?
How does that relate?
Why are you talking about mitigation?
Because the subject of ideologies came up. Context.
| 252 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:23am |
re: #248 Cannadian Club Akbar
and one other quick thing. Your friend needed to be bonded. When you deal with going into other peoples houses, things are more strict.
You would not believe the checks that I had to go through. I've never been arrested, don't do drugs... after three weeks? Even I was sweating it.
| 253 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:17am |
re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You would not believe the checks that I had to go through. I've never been arrested, don't do drugs... after three weeks? Even I was sweating it.
I'm pretty sure you were sweating, regardless.
///
| 254 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:19am |
re: #250 Sergey Romanov
Show me a President that was not responsible for a whole bunch of deaths.
| 255 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:28am |
re: #251 researchok
Because the subject of ideologies came up. Context.
That doesn't answer my question in the least.
How are the subject of 'ideologies' and the idea of mitigation related?
| 256 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:17:37am |
re: #245 researchok
There is a big distinction between Che and Mao, or between Castro and Stalin. Yet their ideological actions (which seemed reasonable to them) resulted in unnecessary deaths.
| 257 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:20am |
re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There is a difference between death and unnecessary death.
| 258 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:40am |
re: #249 Sergey Romanov
Most of the Germans accepting the Nazi ideology weren't violent and didn't want any genocide. But there is an link between the Nazi ideology and genocide.
They may have been passive but they accepted the program- even as the violence became apparent and escalated.
That is a huge distinction.
You have people like myself who distanced themselves from an ideology that went too far. I am responsible for my own actions.
| 259 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:58am |
re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Show me a President that was not responsible for a whole bunch of deaths.
That's kind of the point, I think. They all have, and we don't consider them all 'dysfunctional'.
There is a huge difference, to me, between total whackjobs like Loughner who's ideology is incoherent and whose grasp on reality is obviously loose, and committed ideological terrorists whose actions are exactly in line with the logical outcome of the arguments they espouse.
The others espouse those same arguments without becoming violent is true, but facile; my point is that this shows the bankruptness of that ideology. Or at least shows that those espousing that ideology should acknowledge that its logical outcome results in quite a lot of death.
| 260 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:19:39am |
re: #258 researchok
The counter-Jihadi violence has now escalated. Time to make choices.
| 261 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:20:16am |
re: #255 Obdicut
That doesn't answer my question in the least.
How are the subject of 'ideologies' and the idea of mitigation related?
Can you point to an example of where you have expressed concern over left wing or progressive ideologies that might fuel violence?
| 262 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:21:56am |
re: #260 Sergey Romanov
The counter-Jihadi violence has now escalated. Time to make choices.
On this we agree.
I find them most repulsive.
| 263 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:23:15am |
re: #260 Sergey Romanov
The counter-Jihadi violence has now escalated. Time to make choices.
You make a good point.
I see the counter jihadi people in the same way I see the pro Palestinian left who espouse and embrace violence and other racist ideologies.
| 264 |
BongCrodny Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:23:47am |
re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm actually waiting to hear about a job. They asked if I was honest with them (I was) about prior problems. They said it shouldn't be a problem. We'll see.
Good luck. I've been on the couch (after 30 years of working steady) for over a year now, with only sporadic temp jobs during that time. Between unemployment insurance and my "trivia gig," I've managed to carve out a life that's about a third of what I was used to.
I'm know there are folks out there that think being on unemployment is a lot of fun and games, but at least in my case, I'm not having a whole lot of fun right now.
| 265 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:25:15am |
re: #261 researchok
Can you point to an example of where you have expressed concern over left wing or progressive ideologies that might fuel violence?
Can you explain what on earth this has to do with anything?
I have no idea where the anti-circumcision debate falls on the scale, whether that's considered a 'left-wing' issue, but I've certainly talked about how that could lead to violence-- what is going to be done to Jews who attempt to leave San Francisco with their kids? Are they going to be forcibly stopped?
Whenever I talk about AGW, which is a disaster where there is actual culpability, I'm always sure to say that we need to compromise, convince, and lobby, that there is no possible solution through violence, and that the "Earth Firsters" and the rest are idiots in their ideology.
Now, can you explain how the subject of 'ideologies' and the subject of mitigation are related?
You may be making perfect sense to yourself but you seem completely obtuse to me right now.
| 266 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:26:49am |
re: #262 researchok
Returning to the subject at hand, my point is that people like Stalin or Hitler aren't madmen. They're ruthless, but I doubt they had mental disorders (maybe paranoia, but even that is not certain). It doesn't take a madman to do mass murder. Loughner was a madman in a clinical sense, but I'm not sure about AB.
| 267 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:28am |
re: #260 Sergey Romanov
On 9-11 I was in Charleston, SC on business. By mid-morning I saw a pick up truck with a huge American flag mounted in its bed. Guys in the back of the truck who seriously looked like they were ready to launch a counter-attack against ... well? Anyone.
I remember thinking, "This, as bad as it is; is going to get worse."
| 268 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:37am |
re: #264 BongCrodny
I've been doing temp jobs for 3 years. I'm about to lose my house, but got a letter from my mortgage company Friday saying it's cool to short sell it and save my credit. Pretty fucking cool in my book.
| 269 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:42am |
re: #263 researchok
You make a good point.
I see the counter jihadi people in the same way I see the pro Palestinian left who espouse and embrace violence and other racist ideologies.
That's a good example. People who say the Jews are calculatingly evil oppressors and that Gaza is a concentration camp are rather clearly espousing violence. The camps were freed through war.
But such people aren't insane, and someone who launched an attack on Israel with that belief wouldn't be necessarily insane. He might firmly believe that ideology, just as this asshole firmly believes his ideology.
| 270 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:28:16am |
re: #268 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm sorry that the coolness still involves you losing your house, man, but I'm glad you're not totally screwed. I hope things improve for you.
| 271 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:30:26am |
re: #265 Obdicut
Can you explain what on earth this has to do with anything?
I have no idea where the anti-circumcision debate falls on the scale, whether that's considered a 'left-wing' issue, but I've certainly talked about how that could lead to violence-- what is going to be done to Jews who attempt to leave San Francisco with their kids? Are they going to be forcibly stopped?
Whenever I talk about AGW, which is a disaster where there is actual culpability, I'm always sure to say that we need to compromise, convince, and lobby, that there is no possible solution through violence, and that the "Earth Firsters" and the rest are idiots in their ideology.
Now, can you explain how the subject of 'ideologies' and the subject of mitigation are related?
You may be making perfect sense to yourself but you seem completely obtuse to me right now.
Circumcision?
You think the SF circumcision debate is relevant to this conversation?
We are talking about murders in the name of ideology.
While I'm sure your stance on the circumcision matter is quite appropriate, I'm afraid it isn't germane in discussing murder in the name of ideology.
| 272 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:30:57am |
Oslo police raids East Oslo.
| 273 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:31:04am |
re: #270 Obdicut
I'm sorry that the coolness still involves you losing your house, man, but I'm glad you're not totally screwed. I hope things improve for you.
The best way to get over being in debt is....getting into more debt. I'm going in the morning to the local college to sign back up and find out how much in Pell Grants and Stafford Loans I have waiting. I swear, I'm never gonna grow up. Or I will at least put it off until I'm dead.:)
| 274 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:31:49am |
re: #269 Obdicut
That's a good example. People who say the Jews are calculatingly evil oppressors and that Gaza is a concentration camp are rather clearly espousing violence. The camps were freed through war.
But such people aren't insane, and someone who launched an attack on Israel with that belief wouldn't be necessarily insane. He might firmly believe that ideology, just as this asshole firmly believes his ideology.
Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide is acceptable to you?
| 275 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:32:48am |
re: #271 researchok
Circumcision?
You think the SF circumcision debate is relevant to this conversation?
We are talking about murders in the name of ideology.
While I'm sure your stance on the circumcision matter is quite appropriate, I'm afraid it isn't germane in discussing murder in the name of ideology.
First of all, why ignore the rest of that post?
Second of all, I clearly laid out a scenario where the circumcision ban could result in violence. I have no idea why you ignored that.
There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder-- not in the West, anyway. Nothing that's comparable to the anti-Muslim "Europe is doomed" one. So your question also seems to miss that rather significant point by a large margin.
| 276 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:32:56am |
re: #272 Sergey Romanov
Looking for some related ass-hats?
| 277 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:02am |
re: #274 researchok
Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide is acceptable to you?
Why the fuck would you say that? What the hell is wrong with you this morning?
| 278 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:47am |
re: #276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
It is related to the case.
| 279 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:03am |
re: #272 Sergey Romanov
Oslo police raids East Oslo.
Reuters says the police have detained "several people" but no story to link to yet.
| 280 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:06am |
re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar
Reuters says the police have detained "several people" but no story to link to yet.
I refreshed the page and the banner is now gone.
| 281 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:23am |
re: #275 Obdicut
First of all, why ignore the rest of that post?
Second of all, I clearly laid out a scenario where the circumcision ban could result in violence. I have no idea why you ignored that.
There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder-- not in the West, anyway. Nothing that's comparable to the anti-Muslim "Europe is doomed" one. So your question also seems to miss that rather significant point by a large margin.
While a circumcision ban may result in violence, It is a most unlikely prospect.
There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder
The support by huge numbers of progressive for Hamas, Jihad, et al, all of whom openly espouse bigotryt and racism and calls to genocide is something I find rather troubling.
Well I do, anyway.
| 282 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:43am |
re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar
East Oslo is a home for many immigrants. I speculatively wonder if Breivik acted on his claim that he is ready for tactical alliance with Jihadis. On the other hand, there are some closed Norwegian-only "enclaves" in East Oslo.
| 283 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40:14am |
re: #277 Obdicut
Why the fuck would you say that? What the hell is wrong with you this morning?
It was a question.
You reinforced the previouslt stated opinion that
There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder
I beg to disagree.
| 284 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40:23am |
re: #282 Sergey Romanov
East Oslo is a home for many immigrants. I speculatively wonder if Breivik acted on his claim that he is ready for tactical alliance with Jihadis. On the other hand, there are some closed Norwegian-only "enclaves" in East Oslo.
Jihadis as in middle Eastern or counter-jihadist?
| 285 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:42:27am |
re: #284 Cannadian Club Akbar
Islamists. It would make sense PR-wise to mitigate the blow he made to CJ movement by collaborating with some Islamic extremists to turn the anger on them. But I emphasize that this is only a half-baked thought.
| 286 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:43:53am |
re: #281 researchok
The support by huge numbers of progressive for Hamas, Jihad, et al, all of whom openly espouse bigotryt and racism and calls to genocide is something I find rather troubling.
Well I do, anyway.
Are you just having a memory lapse, or do you seriously not remember me talking at length on any Israel thread about the idiocy of those on the left who misunderstand the situation in Israel and cast Israel as the bad guy?
I also think you're being ridiculous when you say that there are a huge number of progressives that support Hamas. I don't know a single progressive group that does so.
What are you defining as 'progressive'? Progressives are primarily a domestic-policy-defined group, not a foreign policy one.
I don't get the point of any of these questions. We started out with you asserting that Loughner and Anders are the same. I disagreed.
Now you've managed to accuse me of "Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide".
Where is this coming from? Why have you decided that accusing me of bullshit that's not remotely true is a good idea?
| 287 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:46:13am |
re: #283 researchok
So you take the one example that I brought up-- people who are idiots about Israel-- and then claim that I support that position?
How does that work, in your head? That's exactly what I said in my 269, and then you accuse me of supporting that position?
Are you just having trouble reading?
| 288 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:49:06am |
re: #285 Sergey Romanov
Islamists. It would make sense PR-wise to mitigate the blow he made to CJ movement by collaborating with some Islamic extremists to turn the anger on them. But I emphasize that this is only a half-baked thought.
It would actually be quite brilliant of the asshole if he did so. Instantly, all the anti-Islam right-wingers would be crowing that see, they were right, he was used by the Islamacists, this isn't on us, it's on them.
I hope that's not the case.
| 289 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:49:56am |
Now you've managed to accuse me of "Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide".
Where exactly did I do that? Why do you misrepresent what I said?
You said,
That's a good example. People who say the Jews are calculatingly evil oppressors and that Gaza is a concentration camp are rather clearly espousing violence. The camps were freed through war.
But such people aren't insane, and someone who launched an attack on Israel with that belief wouldn't be necessarily insane. He might firmly believe that ideology, just as this asshole firmly believes his ideology.
Supporting (ideologically or financially) the racists, bigots and those calling for genocide isn't simply 'firmly believing in his ideology'.
That is about supporting murder, violence, terror and so on. That is being a party to violence, murder and terror.
And that is just the beginning.
| 290 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:51:39am |
re: #288 Obdicut
For normal people it would hopefully indicate that Jihadis and so-called counter-Jihadis are two sides of one medal.
| 291 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:51:53am |
re: #289 researchok
Supporting (ideologically or financially) the racists, bigots and those calling for genocide isn't simply 'firmly believing in his ideology'.That is about supporting murder, violence, terror and so on. That is being a party to violence, murder and terror.
Yes. It's both. That's my point: this guy is like an Islamic terrorist.
He is not like Loughner.
| 292 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:52:14am |
| 293 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:54:09am |
| 295 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:55:41am |
re: #291 Obdicut
Yes. It's both. That's my point: this guy is like an Islamic terrorist.
He is not like Loughner.
Why is he not like Loughner?
Ideology is ideology, whether it is accepted by one person or 100 million.
The fact remains this guy is not unlike Loughner. They both used ideologies to fuel their psychosis.
| 296 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:58:21am |
re: #295 researchok
The fact remains this guy is not unlike Loughner. They both used ideologies to fuel their psychosis.
Then that observation is so trivial as to be of no use whatsoever in any way.
An Islamic terrorist also uses ideology to fuel psychosis. Which is why the ideologies behind Islamic terror are so dangerous. Which is why the ideology behind the anti-Muslim movement is so dangerous.
| 297 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:01:20am |
re: #296 Obdicut
An Islamic terrorist also uses ideology to fuel psychosis. Which is why the ideologies behind Islamic terror are so dangerous. Which is why the ideology behind the anti-Muslim movement is so dangerous.
On this we agree.
Using ideologies can and will be used by small numbers of dysfunctional people to fuel psychosis. The ideology is irrelevant inasmuch as it only serves as a trigger.
| 298 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:10am |
re: #297 researchok
On this we agree.
Using ideologies can and will be used by small numbers of dysfunctional people to fuel psychosis. The ideology is irrelevant inasmuch as it only serves as a trigger.
The ideology is extremely important, and ignoring that is incredibly baffling to me.
Saying that Jews control the world and are attempting to engineer the death of the white race is an ideology that is far more dangerous than an ideology that says that the human race is damaging the environment. Not just because the latter is true, but because the obvious paths to solution for the former are entirely different than the latter.
Some ideologies, like the anti-Muslim one, or the Jihadi one, claim that only violence can provide a solution, that there is no other path. The anti-Muslim fuckers often cloak this by never reaching the logical end of their thought, but when you talk about deporting millions, it's obvious that will end in violence. Some, like Fjordman, admit that this will lead to civil war.
I have no idea why you're refusing to see this.
| 299 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:22am |
These tragic events have re-emphasised what Europeans have forgotten - that Muslims don't have the monopoly on terrorism.In the late twentieth century, left-wing groups such as ETA, the IRA and red-brigades were the major European terror organisations. Neverlethelss, in the modern world, nine out of ten terrorists now prefer Islam.
However our opponents will use this attack for all it's worth to exonerate Muslims of everything. We counterjihadists must redouble our efforts to educate the public on how Muslims are insidiously undermining and destroying our civilization in many other ways that don't involve massive attacks, using the information provided here.
GoV comment.
| 300 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:05:14am |
re: #290 Sergey Romanov
For normal people it would hopefully indicate that Jihadis and so-called counter-Jihadis are two sides of one medal.
Excluding Jihadis/CJ how do you see the necessary collective need to preserve the group from attack? (For now I'm avoiding the term 'Darwinian')
| 301 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:25am |
re: #300 researchok
Can you elaborate? The question is not quite clear to me.
| 302 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:11:02am |
Chimp at blogmocracy:
THE MOVIE AND BOOK (or manifesto) ARE FAKE!!!!
here is the letter I am sending to everyone when i discovered this fact.IF you download the PDF “2083 a european declaration of independence” and scroll to page 14 you see the following text supposedly written by Anders Breivik — “Political correctness now looms over western european like a colossus. It has taken over both political wings, left and right”
NOW, click on this link — [Link: www.lifesitenews.com...]
Scroll to page 6 and you will find the following text —
“Political correctness has now taken over american society LIKE A COLOSSUS . It has taken over both political parties.”That is just a short outtake, the whole paper was FAKED, I can only assume that this movie is FAKE as well.
This paper which concerns “PC” was not written by Anders.
This so-called manifesto was clearly copied whole cloth by someone with an agenda to paint this killer as an “anti-muslim” extremist.
I suggest a correction be placed in the blog or totally erase the mention as it is clearly FAKE.
Poor chimps still haven't gotten to the fact that Brejvik reprinted his favorite authors.
| 303 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:12:54am |
re: #298 Obdicut
The ideology is extremely important, and ignoring that is incredibly baffling to me.
Saying that Jews control the world and are attempting to engineer the death of the white race is an ideology that is far more dangerous than an ideology that says that the human race is damaging the environment. Not just because the latter is true, but because the obvious paths to solution for the former are entirely different than the latter.
Some ideologies, like the anti-Muslim one, or the Jihadi one, claim that only violence can provide a solution, that there is no other path. The anti-Muslim fuckers often cloak this by never reaching the logical end of their thought, but when you talk about deporting millions, it's obvious that will end in violence. Some, like Fjordman, admit that this will lead to civil war.
I have no idea why you're refusing to see this.
You are looking at ideology through culturally biased eyes.
Any ideology, anywhere, can trigger dysfunctional psychotic behavior.
I am not disagreeing with your remarks re Jihadi/counter Jihadi ideologies. I am disagreeing with your conclusion. Any ideology can trigger dysfunction.
As I noted earlier, the vast majority of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, righties, lefties and everyone in between are non violent. hat sets the lunatics off isn't the ideology or religion.
Something has to be already very broken for that ideology to manifest itself through violence
It is not the ideology
| 304 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:16:05am |
re: #301 Sergey Romanov
Can you elaborate? The question is not quite clear to me.
All groups, tribes, etc have to at times 'circle the wagons' and defend themselves.
How do we realize that today? How, in your opinion, can we reach that consensus? I ask because of your insight into the Holocaust and Nazi Germany.
I don't want to use the Jihadi/CJ scenario as it is too contentious.
| 305 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:18:01am |
re: #304 researchok
Sorry, above my paygrade. Not that I don't have thoughts on this, but this is too general and complex a question to be treated in LGF comments.
| 306 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:18:57am |
re: #303 researchok
You are looking at ideology through culturally biased eyes.
Any ideology, anywhere, can trigger dysfunctional psychotic behavior.
But some trigger it at much higher rates.
The anti-abortion ideology has triggered murder after murder, firebombing, and played a part in McVeigh's action.
The pro-choice ideology has perhaps, maybe, resulted in a murder.
It is not the ideology
Yes, it very clearly is. The Nazi ideology inspired murder, Solidarity did not. The Quaker ideology has yet to produce a terrorist, whereas radical Islam has.
It is completely obvious that ideology is hugely important in inspiring people to commit these acts.
| 307 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:22:17am |
K, folks, nice chatting. bbl
| 308 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:34:16am |
re: #306 Obdicut
But some trigger it at much higher rates.
The anti-abortion ideology has triggered murder after murder, firebombing, and played a part in McVeigh's action.The pro-choice ideology has perhaps, maybe, resulted in a murder.
Yes, it very clearly is. The Nazi ideology inspired murder, Solidarity did not. The Quaker ideology has yet to produce a terrorist, whereas radical Islam has.
It is completely obvious that ideology is hugely important in inspiring people to commit these acts.
Again, I go back to Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao et al.
Are those ideologies somehow less dangerous than the ones you mentioned?
As for Solidarity, you are right because that ideology did not embrace violence, though that alone does not necessarily bestow blessings.
Gandhi did not espouse violence, either. He also suggested the Jews lie down and be slaughtered. In fact, he was quite the letter writer. Gandhi assured Hitler that he had no doubt of “your bravery or devotion to your fatherland.” He signed the the letter, 'Your Friend, Sd. M. MK Gandhi'.
As for the Quakers, recall their support for anti Israel activities and their outrage at Israel defending herself. They were supporters of of the PLO for decades, even during the most violent times.
They also sat down with Ahmadenijad, who has promised to 'wipe Israel off the map'.
Then there were the Mennonites who expressed their hope Hitler would 'rebuild the Fatherland'.
Pacifism is no guarantee of morality.
| 309 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:34:30am |
According to Reuters, the people detained in North East Oslo have been released.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 310 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:40:12am |
re: #308 researchok
Again, I go back to Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao et al.
Are those ideologies somehow less dangerous than the ones you mentioned?
Some of them less, some of them more. That's my point. Some ideologies are more dangerous than others.
As for Solidarity, you are right because that ideology did not embrace violence, though that alone does not necessarily bestow blessings.
Yes. Thank you. Ideology does matter. Thank you for retracting your claim.
Gandhi did not espouse violence, either. He also suggested the Jews lie down and be slaughtered. In fact, he was quite the letter writer. Gandhi assured Hitler that he had no doubt of “your bravery or devotion to your fatherland.” He signed the the letter, 'Your Friend, Sd. M. MK Gandhi'.
And?
As for the Quakers, recall their support for anti Israel activities and their outrage at Israel defending herself. They were supporters of of the PLO for decades, even during the most violent times.
"They" were not anything, since they're not a unified or hierarchical body. As ultra-pacifists, they are completely unreasonable on the subject of Israel.
That is not, however, what we were discussing. Their ideology has not produced terrorists.
Pacifism is no guarantee of morality.
And if I'd made that claim, that'd be great.
Anyway, I'm happy you've conceded that ideology does, in fact, matter.
| 311 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:41:14am |
re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar
According to Reuters, the people detained in North East Oslo have been released.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
The asshole in question is claiming that he worked alone, currently.
I don't know whether to believe him or not, but I'm quite certain he wasn't alone in terms of correspondence. Whether he told anyone what he was planning will become a rather key question.
| 312 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:44:01am |
re: #311 Obdicut
I personally don't think he worked alone and I'm pretty sure he won't throw anyone under the bus. I just wonder if there is indeed more to come.
| 313 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:46:08am |
re: #312 Cannadian Club Akbar
I personally don't think he worked alone and I'm pretty sure he won't throw anyone under the bus. I just wonder if there is indeed more to come.
I really hope not, in terms of more attacks. I am worried about the 'cells' that he mentioned in his manifesto, but I'm hoping that was disinformation.
I think the police and other agencies are going to be going over his computer with a fine tooth comb, and likely the logs from his ISP, as well.
I hope they succeed in following up any contacts he did have.
| 314 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:50:14am |
Well
After a 10 day hiatus, I returned to work last night to be greeted by a laundry list of "chores" that I am just now, some 9 hours later, have a handle on
| 315 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:17am |
re: #313 Obdicut
I haven't been able to read his manifesto. But he wasn't stoopid so I would think any discussions would be in private, not on the computer. But his contacts, or he, could have been sloppy.
| 316 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:20am |
re: #310 Obdicut
Some of them less, some of them more. That's my point. Some ideologies are more dangerous than others.
Yes. Thank you. Ideology does matter. Thank you for retracting your claim.
And?
"They" were not anything, since they're not a unified or hierarchical body. As ultra-pacifists, they are completely unreasonable on the subject of Israel.
That is not, however, what we were discussing. Their ideology has not produced terrorists.
And if I'd made that claim, that'd be great.
Anyway, I'm happy you've conceded that ideology does, in fact, matter.
The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists. True.
They only produce supporters of terrorists who espouse racism, bigotry and calls to genocide.
The never pull the trigger. They just do the paperwork. By the way, Islam has no formal structure, either.
Now, as to the rest of your remarks, I believe you misinterpreted what I said.
There are differences in ideologies of course, but any ideology can serve as a vehicle- even Solidarity. That there were no overt acts directly attributed to Solidarity is irrelevant. Given the right circumstances, some nut job could have committed acts of violence in Solidarity's name.
In the end, any ideology can trigger violence.
Also, I never said you made the claim that pacifism is a guarantee of morality.
| 317 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:53am |
re: #314 sattv4u2
Well
After a 10 day hiatus, I returned to work last night to be greeted by a laundry list of "chores" that I am just now, some 9 hours later, have a handle on
Good. Now mow my friend's lawn.
| 318 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:23am |
re: #316 researchok
The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists
But they have produced a fine line of breakfast options!!
///
| 319 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:50am |
re: #317 Cannadian Club Akbar
Good. Now mow my friend's lawn.
You guys didn't do a good enough job last week!?!?!
| 320 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:53:41am |
re: #316 researchok
The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists. True.
They only produce supporters of terrorists who espouse racism, bigotry and calls to genocide.
But they don't. They support only peaceful protests. They don't support calls for genocide, at all. That's simply a false claim.
The never pull the trigger. They just do the paperwork. By the way, Islam has no formal structure, either.
Yes. Which is why you can't say that "Muslims" support anything.
There are differences in ideologies of course, but any ideology can serve as a vehicle- even Solidarity.
Again:
Some ideologies function much better as vehicles for psychopaths than others.
In the end, any ideology can trigger violence.
Some of them trigger violence much more often than others.
| 321 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:08am |
re: #319 sattv4u2
You guys didn't do a good enough job last week!?!?!
It grew back. I wanted to salt the fucking place, but NOOOO!!
| 322 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:39am |
| 323 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:56:42am |
I return briefly to give you this link:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
Read it. The academic antisemite Kevin McDonald apologizes for Breivik's murders, calls him a serious political thinker.
I'm going to puke a bit, bbl.
| 324 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:05:46am |
re: #320 Obdicut
The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists. True.
But they don't. They support only peaceful protests. They don't support calls for genocide, at all. That's simply a false claim.
Yes. Which is why you can't say that "Muslims" support anything.
Again:
Some ideologies function much better as vehicles for psychopaths than others.
Some of them trigger violence much more often than others.
Quakers supported the Gaza Flotilla (organized by Turkish Islamists allied with Hamas and Hizbollah)
They also supported Pol Pot, referring to him as "the example of an alternative model of development and social organization." They also supported the Khmer Rouge.
They supported International Solidarity Movement co-founder Ghassan Andoni and nominated him for a Nobel Peace Prize.
Also, as I have noted many times today, one could easily argue leftist ideologies are far more deadly than the CJ movement the lunatic in Oslo aligned himself wth
| 325 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:06:21am |
re: #295 researchok
Why is he not like Loughner?
Ideology is ideology, whether it is accepted by one person or 100 million.
The fact remains this guy is not unlike Loughner. They both used ideologies to fuel their psychosis.
I agree with your overall point but Loughner is schizophrenic. His "ideology" didn't play a role in his psychosis. His ideology could have been based on Hanna-barbera cartoons for all that it mattered.
I have no idea what kind of twisted logic it takes for a man to hunt down and kill kids for over an hour. I wouldn't bet that he's legally sane but he certainly didn't exhibit any schizophrenic tendencies that we know about.
| 326 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:07:23am |
re: #323 Sergey Romanov
I return briefly to give you this link:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]
Read it. The academic antisemite Kevin McDonald apologizes for Breivik's murders, calls him a serious political thinker.
I'm going to puke a bit, bbl.
Good catch.
Lunatics on Parade.
| 327 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:08:17am |
For the record I believe pacifism is immoral. Quakers, and especially those evil mennonites, are going to burn.//
Happy sunday all!
| 328 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:08:23am |
re: #325 RogueOne
I agree with your overall point but Loughner is schizophrenic. His "ideology" didn't play a role in his psychosis. His ideology could have been based on Hanna-barbera cartoons for all that it mattered.
I have no idea what kind of twisted logic it takes for a man to hunt down and kill kids for over an hour. I wouldn't bet that he's legally sane but he certainly didn't exhibit any schizophrenic tendencies that we know about.
I'm willing to bet that before this is over, this Oslo psycho will be deemed pretty nuts as well.
| 329 |
Obdicut Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:09:07am |
re: #324 researchok
Since you're refusing to engage with my point, I'm done talking to you. I have no idea whether you're being intentionally or unintentionally obtuse, but I don't care.
It is vitally important to recognize that some ideologies are far more dangerous than others. Anyone who overlooks that or attempts to deny it with academic hand-waving is a fool.
| 330 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:10:05am |
re: #328 researchok
I'm willing to bet that before this is over, this Oslo psycho will be deemed pretty nuts as well.
Agree. But in his mind he doesn't think he's nuts and prolly won't let it be used as a defense, if they have that kind of defense over there.
| 331 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:11:18am |
re: #329 Obdicut
Since you're refusing to engage with my point, I'm done talking to you. I have no idea whether you're being intentionally or unintentionally obtuse, but I don't care.
It is vitally important to recognize that some ideologies are far more dangerous than others. Anyone who overlooks that or attempts to deny it with academic hand-waving is a fool.
That's nice.
Recall though that you refused to engage my points long before- in addition to deliberately mischaracterizing what I said.
| 332 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:12:38am |
re: #328 researchok
I'm willing to bet that before this is over, this Oslo psycho will be deemed pretty nuts as well.
I never could wrap my head around the concept of killing, or even harming, innocents. Killing someone in uniform or in self-defense would just make me want a cigarette, no guilt. I can't understand the mindset it must have taken for this asshole to wander around that island for an hour hunting down teenagers.
| 333 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:12:43am |
re: #330 Cannadian Club Akbar
Agree. But in his mind he doesn't think he's nuts and prolly won't let it be used as a defense, if they have that kind of defense over there.
Loughner thinks he is the picture of mental health as well.
On the surface, what appears to be the only distinction between the two at this point is a diagnosis.
| 334 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:14:17am |
re: #332 RogueOne
I never could wrap my head around the concept of killing, or even harming, innocents. Killing someone in uniform or in self-defense would just make me want a cigarette, no guilt. I can't understand the mindset it must have taken for this asshole to wander around that island for an hour hunting down teenagers.
Some people are broken- in the literal sense. There are some things that just cannot be fixed.
Based on observation from a distance, this is what we are dealing with here.
| 335 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:18:50am |
re: #334 researchok
Some people are broken- in the literal sense. There are some things that just cannot be fixed.
Based on observation from a distance, this is what we are dealing with here.
I sort of hope so. It's easier to deal with if you can put the "crazy" label on someone. I'm getting the impression he was more like McVeigh (actually worse) than anything else. His ideology (anti-islam/immigration) may have played a role but it's a pretty big leap to go from "no immigration of muslims" to "kill the kids of your political enemies" so you might be right.
| 336 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:24:07am |
re: #327 RogueOne
For the record I believe pacifism is immoral. Quakers, and especially those evil mennonites, are going to burn.//
Happy sunday all!
Lets not forget The Church Of Ed Wood!!
[Link: www.edwood.org...]
Sure,, they SAY by looking at his films and his life, we learn to lead happy, positive lives. We strive for acceptance of others and of the self. , but c'mon ,, have you seen his films !?!?!
//
| 337 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:28:55am |
re: #335 RogueOne
I sort of hope so. It's easier to deal with if you can put the "crazy" label on someone. I'm getting the impression he was more like McVeigh (actually worse) than anything else. His ideology (anti-islam/immigration) may have played a role but it's a pretty big leap to go from "no immigration of muslims" to "kill the kids of your political enemies" so you might be right.
Here's a thought.
When it comes to mental health issues, I'm pretty liberal (given my right of center leanings that may surprise some), mostly because I realize just how many people are ill equipped to deal with problems (lots of reasons, another discussion). I don't see most people with real issues as 'professional victims' or malingerers. In other words, I see them as not ever having learned to drive versus being incapable of driving.
What I do resent is the politicization of mental health issues, as in my discussion with Obdi today. He feels some ideologies are more likely to lead to violence than others.
I believe that any ideology can trigger an underlying psychosis.
Right wing lunatic ideology is no more dangerous than left wing lunatic ideology. All a lunatic needs is an excuse, a 'voice' to tell him what he must do.
That voice can come from anywhere.
| 338 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:31:30am |
A&E is running a Criminal Minds marathon today about serial killers they thought were dead. Sweet.
| 339 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:32:16am |
re: #337 researchok
All a lunatic needs is an excuse, a 'voice' to tell him what he must do.
That voice can come from anywhere.
My dog said the same thing last week!
And i'm not even going to tell you what the table lamp had to say about that !
| 340 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:33:34am |
re: #339 sattv4u2
All a lunatic needs is an excuse, a 'voice' to tell him what he must do.
That voice can come from anywhere.
My dog said the same thing last week!
And i'm not even going to tell you what the table lamp had to say about that !
I know your lamp.
Needs a new bulb for sure.
| 341 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:33am |
re: #338 Cannadian Club Akbar
A&E is running a Criminal Minds marathon today about serial killers they thought were dead. Sweet.
Sopranos are on now.
Kind of related to serial killing...
| 342 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:40am |
And people used to laugh at me when I would say, "My radio just said"...I think not.
| 343 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:35:18am |
re: #337 researchok
I agree, I've seen family struggle with my cousin who's schizophrenic. Every episode has gotten increasingly violent. You can't fix crazy.
OTOH, I also agree with Obdi that some ideologies breed bad behavior unrelated to mental issues. There is a difference between a religion that says homosexuals go to hell and another that says we must send them there in a violent way.
| 344 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:38:21am |
re: #343 RogueOne
I agree, I've seen family struggle with my cousin who's schizophrenic. Every episode has gotten increasingly violent. You can't fix crazy.
OTOH, I also agree with Obdi that some ideologies breed bad behavior unrelated to mental issues. There is a difference between a religion that says homosexuals go to hell and another that says we must send them there in a violent way.
Yes, there is a difference and that usually plays itself out culturally.
However, the jump to violence predicated on either belief is pretty long.
The vast majority of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, capitalists and communists don't make that leap into violent behavior.
Something has to be very dysfunctional fro that to happen.
| 345 |
lostlakehiker Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:39:14am |
re: #16 austin_blue
Dear Mr. Yonts;
Our soldiers coming back from the Middle East will absolutely adore this term. Not only have they had to suffer from these "phenomena", which is what the means in Arabic, but they get the added bonus of reading "Gigantic Haboob Hits Phoenix", which I assure you is comedy gold for a combat trooper. Please start worrying about *real* problems.
Yours truly,
A_B
We've already got "paradise", "sheriff", "sheikh", "jihad", "mosque", "mocha", "intifada", and surely much beside. Give us your poor, your huddled words, yearning to be English.
We won't be needing "blizzard", at the rate things are going. It's shaping up to a real nakhba of a summer.
| 346 |
researchok Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:39:19am |
re: #343 RogueOne
I agree, I've seen family struggle with my cousin who's schizophrenic. Every episode has gotten increasingly violent. You can't fix crazy.
OTOH, I also agree with Obdi that some ideologies breed bad behavior unrelated to mental issues. There is a difference between a religion that says homosexuals go to hell and another that says we must send them there in a violent way.
By the schizophrenia is a particularly heartbreaking illness, very difficult to deal with.
| 348 |
BongCrodny Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:44:50am |
| 350 |
lostlakehiker Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:46:13am |
re: #335 RogueOne
I sort of hope so. It's easier to deal with if you can put the "crazy" label on someone. I'm getting the impression he was more like McVeigh (actually worse) than anything else. His ideology (anti-islam/immigration) may have played a role but it's a pretty big leap to go from "no immigration of muslims" to "kill the kids of your political enemies" so you might be right.
I was quick to conclude that Loughner was certifiably insane. But my first impression this time around fits in with yours. Some people aren't insane in the sense that they hear voices and talk funny. They're just, for lack of a more clinical word, evil.
This second type thinks about what it reads, draws cruel conclusions, and then acts without compunction or restraint. Doctrines that call, either directly or by implication, for the killing of [fill the blanks], are more likely to be a contributing factor to mass murder events of this sort, than doctrines of a more Quakerish bent.
| 351 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:46:27am |
| 352 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:20am |
re: #346 researchok
By the schizophrenia is a particularly heartbreaking illness, very difficult to deal with.
He was a good-looking, smart young man with a seemingly bright future. It kicked in during his late teens. He's been in and out of a variety of state institutions. After dealing with it for 20 years his sisters have had enough. He's in another institution now and no where to go when he gets out.
| 353 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:45am |
re: #342 Cannadian Club Akbar
And people used to laugh at me when I would say, "My radio just said"...I think not.
My talking lamp can beat up your talking radio!
| 354 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:48:54am |
re: #229 researchok
Does that mean Marx, et, al, were responsible for Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao, etc and the millions of deaths they caused?
Are the mullah's who declare jihad in their fatwas responsible for the deaths they cause?
| 355 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:14am |
| 356 |
lawhawk Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:30am |
re: #345 lostlakehiker
You forgot that Phoenix is a mecca for heat-lovers, with many homes built out of adobe. So many people try to enjoy better living through chemistry and algebra. Here in the US we rely on the arsenal of democracy, which includes admirals and magazines.
But I need to go get my coffee.
| 357 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:50:49am |
re: #356 lawhawk
You forgot that Phoenix is a mecca for heat-lovers, with many homes built out of adobe. So many people try to enjoy better living through chemistry and algebra. Here in the US we rely on the arsenal of democracy, which includes admirals and magazines.
But I need to go get my coffee.
cream and sugar?
| 358 |
lawhawk Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:51:06am |
re: #347 darthstar
What are you talking about... I'm a Saint.
| 359 |
lawhawk Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:52:29am |
re: #357 sattv4u2
A hit of cream, no sugar. /sorry, I'm not Mr. Wolf.
| 360 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:53:55am |
| 361 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:54:07am |
| 362 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:57:10am |
| 363 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:13am |
Some new info about ABBs insane manifesto: He plagiarized the Una-bomber: [Link: translate.google.com...]
| 364 |
lawhawk Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:41am |
China high speed rail accident kills more than 30, and how does the Chinese government investigate the incident? It is burying the evidence.
They're taking the damaged railcars, and instead of systematically examining the damaged cars to see how they were damaged, whether there were defects, or anything that can be learned to make them safer, they're simply carting them off and burying them within hours of the accident.
China has been spending billions on high speed rail and other infrastructure, but they're cutting corners and it's affecting safety.
| 365 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:50am |
re: #363 JJ42
Some new info about ABBs insane manifesto: He plagiarized the Una-bomber: [Link: translate.google.com...]
Sick Minds think Alike!
| 366 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:01:12am |
re: #354 kirkspencer
Are the mullah's who declare jihad in their fatwas responsible for the deaths they cause?
I get all my orders from the Teletubbies.
| 367 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:03:21am |
re: #363 JJ42
Some new info about ABBs insane manifesto: He plagiarized the Una-bomber: [Link: translate.google.com...]
Let's not abbreviate the asshole to "ABB" - call him by his last name. ABB has a positive connotation...and I'd like to keep it that way.
| 368 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:03:23am |
There was good news this week, Beavis and Butthead are coming back:
[Link: thecelebritycafe.com...]
Life is about to get a lot better!
| 369 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:04:48am |
re: #368 RogueOne
There was good news this week, Beavis and Butthead are coming back:
[Link: thecelebritycafe.com...]
[Video]Life is about to get a lot better!
Great. Now I have to start smoking pot again.
| 370 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:45am |
re: #367 darthstar
Someone spent to much time in the south, eh?
/
| 371 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:10:59am |
re: #370 Cannadian Club Akbar
Someone spent to much time in the south, eh?
/
For a short time, I had an apt in South Boston, does that count??
| 372 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:11:27am |
The video link in this story has been removed by YouTube.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 373 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:12:16am |
re: #370 Cannadian Club Akbar
Someone spent to much time in the south, eh?
/
A week was good. I'm already recovering from the cholesterol overload.
| 374 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:13:25am |
re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar
The video link in this story has been removed by YouTube.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
A story on Al-jazeera shows some still shots of the video. Pretty disturbing.
| 375 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:14:16am |
re: #374 RogueOne
A story on Al-jazeera shows some still shots of the video. Pretty disturbing.
I saw some stills from the crime scene. Can't remember where I found them.
| 376 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:16:09am |
re: #371 sattv4u2
For a short time, I had an apt in South Boston, does that count??
There's a South Boston, VA (I'm just sayin).
When Dan Quayle came through Roanoke on the campaign; he made a "joke" that the closet Ducaca had ever been to the South was "South Boston".
The whole crowed went, "Yeah!... Wait! ...What?"
| 377 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:16:56am |
Here is the Al-jazeera coverage of the manifesto:
Anders Behring Breivik: Inside Norway Bomber's 'Manifesto'
| 378 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:17:57am |
re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar
I saw some stills from the crime scene. Can't remember where I found them.
Here. 2 pics. Victims blurred out.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
| 379 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:19:28am |
re: #376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
There's a South Boston, VA (I'm just sayin).
When Dan Quayle came through Roanoke on the campaign; he made a "joke" that the closet Ducaca had ever been to the South was "South Boston".
The whole crowed went, "Yeah!... Wait! ...What?"
Was thinking that when I typed mine! I've actually been through there, going from Greensboro NC to Appomattox
| 380 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:19:53am |
re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not gonna look.
I'm still damaged from looking at the pics from Jonestown.
I don't look at 911 pics either.
I'd still like to see Osama with a cap popped in his ass though.
| 381 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:15am |
re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar
I saw some stills from the crime scene. Can't remember where I found them.
My interest in seeing pictures from scenes like this has seriously waned in recent years. I understand the importance of their being available, but I don't bother looking for them like I used to. I think it's the use of photos by some people to argue a political point (All those people are bad, see?) or simply justify their own prejudices...I now try to step back for a few days and let the emotional shit filter through before jumping into the fray.
In this case, it's pretty straight forward. A member of a racist hate group made a political statement. Give him his 21 years max sentence in Norway, and we'll revisit making the fucker miserable in 2032.
| 382 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:52am |
re: #354 kirkspencer
Are the mullah's who declare jihad in their fatwas responsible for the deaths they cause?
I'd say yes, partially. If someone sends out that kind of message , they know that somebody out there will act on it. It's also a sneaky tactic to put out veiled threats that they know someone will understand, and act upon. Like this
| 383 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:23:18am |
re: #381 darthstar
Give him his 21 years max sentence in Norway, and we'll revisit making the fucker miserable in 2032.
I'll bet you he'll never breathe free air again. There have got to be some sentencing things over there that will put his ass under the prison.
Mebbe they could do 21 years per offense? That lets him out in 2100 years or so?
| 384 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:04am |
| 385 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:10am |
re: #380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not gonna look.
I'm still damaged from looking at the pics from Jonestown.
I don't look at 911 pics either.
I'd still like to see Osama with a cap popped in his ass though.
I always though it would be great, that if he was captured alive and taken back to the states, if we built a replica of one of the Twin Towers out in the desert somewhere, tied him to a flagpole on the roof (flying the American Flag, of course) and we had a remote controlled 747 fly by closer and closer each time, till ,,,,,,,
| 386 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:23am |
re: #378 Cannadian Club Akbar
Here. 2 pics. Victims blurred out.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
Those are 2 of the still Al-jazeera showed, without the blurring. There isn't any gore but seeing him standing there with that big of a group of bodies on the ground is disturbing.
| 387 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:25:26am |
re: #379 sattv4u2
Was at a house in South Boston, VA and called the family "Southies". They... uh... didn't get it.
| 389 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:27:55am |
re: #386 RogueOne
Those are 2 of the still Al-jazeera showed, without the blurring. There isn't any gore but seeing him standing there with that big of a group of bodies on the ground is disturbing.
Serial killers and mass murderers have always intrigued me. Not in a nutball way, just in the mind set way.
| 390 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:00am |
re: #367 darthstar
Agreed. Being a LOTR-fan, I'm considering referring to him as "He whose name I will not mention" or similar.
| 392 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:59am |
re: #391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Watching UHF on "In Demand".
Uh, you don't need cable to get UHF. Just sayin'.
/
| 393 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:29:20am |
re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar
Uh, you don't need cable to get UHF. Just sayin'.
/
couple a bent coat hangers,,,
| 394 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:29:43am |
re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar
"Spatula City!"
| 395 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:30:29am |
re: #382 JJ42
I'd say yes, partially. If someone sends out that kind of message , they know that somebody out there will act on it. It's also a sneaky tactic to put out veiled threats that they know someone will understand, and act upon. Like this
[Video]
Oh, I agree. That was a (somewhat) sarcastic response to the point I thought (and think) ResearchOK was making.
There is a technique called leaderless resistance or leaderless rebellion. It has several parts, but relevant to this is that you have a 'blameless voice' who guides the cells -- not directly, but through general guidance and rhetoric. If you were military, the blameless voice is giving commander's intent and leaving mission and the remainder of the order to the cells' internal organizations. The connection is obvious, but with care it's not legally accountable.
It's what I've thought of much of the rhetoric of some of the Hard Right for a couple of decades now.
| 396 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:31:11am |
| 397 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:31:15am |
| 398 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:33:29am |
re: #397 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
What is actually scary is the fact that I have about 9 spatulas.:(
| 399 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:35:51am |
re: #398 Cannadian Club Akbar
What is actually scary is the fact that I have about 9 spatulas.:(
hoarder!
| 400 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:37:45am |
re: #383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I'll bet you he'll never breathe free air again. There have got to be some sentencing things over there that will put his ass under the prison.
Yep, there's a thing called "forvaring" which can be translated to "[in] custody" or "[in] storage". If he gets a "forvaring"-conviction (which he probably will) there's really no upper limit to how long he can be incarcerated. After 21 years, (if I remember correctly) they will evaluate whether he is still a danger to society. If he is, they will keep him in prison five more years. After those five years there will be a new evaluation with the possibility of five new years, and if they want to they can continue this for as long as they want.
| 402 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:38:58am |
re: #400 JJ42
After 21 years, (if I remember correctly) they will evaluate whether he is still a danger to society.
I'll volunteer to do that for them right now!!
| 404 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:44:47am |
re: #402 sattv4u2
I think pretty much everyone in Norway will demand that this self declared "knight-in-shiny-armor-teenager-killer" will be kept in prison for life. Or as "Sauron's mouth" in LOTR puts it: "Until he is broken and changed"
| 405 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:00am |
| 406 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:02am |
re: #402 sattv4u2
After 21 years, (if I remember correctly) they will evaluate whether he is still a danger to society.
I'll volunteer to do that for them right now!!
I wonder if he'll be put in General Population if they have it. I also wonder if someone in General Population had a family member murdered by the Ahole.
| 407 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:35am |
In 2009 Norway had 29 murders total. They do have secure prisons where they're locked down 23 out of 24 hours a day and I would guess that's where he'll go for good. You can't rehab 90 murders out of a guy.
| 408 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:50:54am |
re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar
It grew back. I wanted to salt the fucking place, but NOOO!!
Pave it and paint it green.
| 409 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:51:40am |
| 410 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:52:46am |
re: #400 JJ42
So, between five year hearings, is there at least someone in his cell 24/7 poking him with stick?
(not a prison rape, joke... I mean a stick)
| 411 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:11am |
This Breivik guy is terrible and all, but he is in custody. Any word on what that other hostage taker--Bonner, Bohnr, Boehner it is--Boehner's been up to the last 24 hours? Or is he still a powerless figurehead pretending to be the leader of his party?
| 412 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:49am |
re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
So, between five year hearings, is there at least someone in his cell 24/7 poking him with stick?
(not a prison rape, joke... I mean a stick)
We'll send a house elf to torment him...they like that.
| 413 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:50am |
re: #409 Cannadian Club Akbar
And put up a net?
Absolutely not. That includes going outside. Fuck outside.
Outside is stupid.
| 414 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:54:35am |
re: #411 darthstar
This Breivik guy is terrible and all, but he is in custody. Any word on what that other hostage taker--Bonner, Bohnr, Boehner it is--Boehner's been up to the last 24 hours? Or is he still a powerless figurehead pretending to be the leader of his party?
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 415 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:55:23am |
re: #406 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not sure. I'm (luckily) not familiar with the inside of the prison system. I suspect that 99% of the inmates will hate him. The foreigners will hate him for obvious reasons, and the "ethnic Norwegians" (including classic neo nazis) will hate him because he basically killed his own people, not to mention that most of them were just kids. Nobody likes a child killer.
| 416 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:58:52am |
Here's a nicer story:
George the Great Dane is 7ft long, weighs 18st and is the world's biggest dog... but he's terrified of chihuahuas
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I'm not sure of the conversion rate but I think 18 stones= 1482lbs give/take 1400lbs
| 417 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:24am |
re: #415 JJ42
Certain hardcore fascists have ways of diffusing this enmity with foreigners in prison, I have a couple of prominent Russian Nazis in mind.
| 418 |
Digital Display Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:52am |
re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Absolutely not. That includes going outside. Fuck outside.
Outside is stupid.
Outside is hot..I'm not going out today..It has been something like 30 days straight of 100+ heat in Oklahoma.. The all time record is 50 days...
| 419 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:53am |
re: #346 researchok
In case anyone is interested in this kind of stuff, here's an interesting (and LONG) lecture on the topic of schizophrenia by Stanford psych professor Robert Sapolsky. Quite an edifying listen; makes me regret that I didn't go to a halfway decent school.
| 420 |
allegro Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:00:23am |
re: #416 RogueOne
Here's a nicer story:
George the Great Dane is 7ft long, weighs 18st and is the world's biggest dog... but he's terrified of chihuahuas
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
I'm not sure of the conversion rate but I think 18 stones= 1482lbs give/take 1400lbs
252 pounds
| 421 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:01:31am |
| 422 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:22am |
re: #416 RogueOne
That's one big bag of dogfood right there.
| 423 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:58am |
re: #420 allegro
I have a friend who is barely 5'3". She and her husband have 2 great danes. The smaller of the which outweighs her by at least 50lbs.
| 424 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:04:05am |
re: #421 RogueOne
That was within my margin of error. I'm calling that one "correct".
Are you a Ron Paul polling supervisor?
/
| 425 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:04:07am |
re: #422 darthstar
That's one big bag of dogfood right there.
followed by the need for a Super Pooper Scooper
| 426 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:05:13am |
re: #425 sattv4u2
followed by the need for a Super Pooper Scooper
You'd have to take a hefty bag with you to the dog park.
| 427 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:05:34am |
re: #425 sattv4u2
followed by the need for a Super Pooper Scooper
Image: loader.jpg
FWIW, I HATE this loader. 928's suck and they're easy to flip.
| 428 |
darthstar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:07:32am |
Time to get going...doing a road ride with some friends today. Laters.
When I come back I expect someone will have covered the little protest in Tel-Aviv last night...someone's unhappy with Bibi there besides the Palestinians.
| 429 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:14am |
re: #427 Cannadian Club Akbar
Image: loader.jpg
FWIW, I HATE this loader. 928's suck and they're easy to flip.
After careful calculations,,,, nuffin!!
| 430 |
RogueOne Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:09:47am |
Have to bail too. I'm still hunting down a presumed electrical problem with the wifes AC. This has turned into a project bad enough that I'm considering giving up and just buying a new car. Enjoy the day folks!
| 431 |
allegro Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:02am |
re: #423 RogueOne
I have a friend who is barely 5'3". She and her husband have 2 great danes. The smaller of the which outweighs her by at least 50lbs.
I believe it. I'm about that size myself and the neighbor's Dane has knocked me down a couple of times by leaning on me. That's the way he shows affection.
| 432 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:04am |
re: #429 sattv4u2
After careful calculations,,, nuffin!!
The side pictured has the oil filter. Right next to that is the batteries. If you fuck up just right, you can weld the filter wrench to the battery. Or so I hear.
| 433 |
Digital Display Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:14:45am |
When I moved to Oklahoma I brought tons of clothes.. Many in garbage bags stuck in the 2nd bedroom.. Today the maid is going to do all my laundry.. It will take all day...This will be awesome..Who knows what will show up..Throw back jerseys, Dress shirts..
| 434 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:17:05am |
re: #433 HoosierHoops
When I moved to Oklahoma I brought tons of clothes.. Many in garbage bags stuck in the 2nd bedroom.. Today the maid is going to do all my laundry.. It will take all day...This will be awesome..Who knows what will show up..Throw back jerseys, Dress shirts..
...bloody knife wrapped in a towel, some rope, ether rag,...
/
| 435 |
Digital Display Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:27am |
re: #434 Cannadian Club Akbar
...bloody knife wrapped in a towel, some rope, ether rag,...
/
LOL
Seriously..There are just bags and bags of laundry...
| 436 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:21:39am |
re: #433 HoosierHoops
When I moved to Oklahoma I brought tons of clothes.. Many in garbage bags stuck in the 2nd bedroom.. Today the maid is going to do all my laundry.. It will take all day...This will be awesome..Who knows what will show up..Throw back jerseys, Dress shirts..
rats,,,, moths ,,,, mold,,,,
| 437 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:23:13am |
| 438 |
Digital Display Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:23:20am |
| 439 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:25:17am |
One thing I've stumbled across I'd like to share is a reason - besides shock and terror - he attacked that camp.
Picture, for a moment, somebody killing ten to fifteen percent of the attendees of the Young Republicans National Conference. That's a gathering that only happens every two years. It's attended by, well, /serious/ Young Republicans. Attendees come almost entirely from the people of their generation who will be the major players - some in the public eye, some behind the scenes - for the Republican Party.
Remember that he thinks his plan isn't a couple of year plan. 2085, it's called. Seventy to seventy-five years to completion; a long, hard-fought battle.
He was cutting deeply into the enemy's next generation's critical leadership, crippling (he hoped) their long-term political capability.
| 440 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:27:44am |
re: #439 kirkspencer
I remember the Atlanta Child Murders and people had the thought of the killer, killing the next generation of black people.
| 441 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:29:20am |
| 443 |
Digital Display Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:29:55am |
The easiest answer to a question all week..
Next segment on MTP is: Is Washington Broken?
DUH!
| 444 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:31:16am |
re: #440 Cannadian Club Akbar
I remember the Atlanta Child Murders and people had the thought of the killer, killing the next generation of black people.
Yes, but... I don't know if I was clear enough. This camp wasn't just a 'fun summer camp'. It was in part a political activists' camp for the children of that particular political slice, many of them the children of leaders and major supporters of those leaders.
Not just any socialist liberals (ala the Atlanta child Murders being 'any black children') but a self-selected likely next generation LEADERSHIP of the same.
| 445 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:38:25am |
re: #439 kirkspencer
Yes, there is a sort of twisted logic to it, but the only thing the killer will achieve is to strengthen the resolve of the survivors. Plus increase recruitment to the organization he attacked.
| 446 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:39:27am |
re: #439 kirkspencer
A 2 generation strike. The ultimate decapitation of leadership. Guarantees your enemy falls via failing to exist in any serious capacity. If genocide is the attempted erasure of an ethnic group, what would we call the attempted elimination of an entire political structure? Hm. Politicide?
| 447 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:45:49am |
re: #444 kirkspencer
I misread it. I thought you used young republicans as an example. didn't realize the camp had an actual political purpose.
| 448 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:47:05am |
re: #435 HoosierHoops
LOL
Seriously..There are just bags and bags of laundry...
You don't do your own laundry?
HH - really now.
| 449 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:47:21am |
| 450 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:49:33am |
Police press conference about Utøya shootings right now: Shooting started about 17:30. The swat team arrived on the island by boat 18:25. The killer was apprehended 18:27, with no shots fired. He still possessed a substantial amount of ammunition, but chose to surrender when called out. Judging from his manifesto, he was expecting 'martyrdom' at the hands of the police. I think it's quite impressive that they got him alive. Usually these kinds of killers take their own life rather than surrendering (only to be executed later.) If Norway had the death penalty, I suspect he would have killed him self, or chosen "death by cop"
| 451 |
Digital Display Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:50:20am |
re: #448 reine.de.tout
You don't do your own laundry?
HH - really now.
I just did the basics since I moved here.. There are just tons of clothes..Winter, Spring, Summer.. I have so many clothes...
Hi Reine!
| 452 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:51:43am |
re: #448 reine.de.tout
You don't do your own laundry?
HH - really now.
If you knew how dirty he gets his undies,, you would burn them instead of washing them yourself!
| 453 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:17am |
| 454 |
What, me worry? Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:44am |
re: #439 kirkspencer
One thing I've stumbled across I'd like to share is a reason - besides shock and terror - he attacked that camp.
Picture, for a moment, somebody killing ten to fifteen percent of the attendees of the Young Republicans National Conference. That's a gathering that only happens every two years. It's attended by, well, /serious/ Young Republicans. Attendees come almost entirely from the people of their generation who will be the major players - some in the public eye, some behind the scenes - for the Republican Party.
Remember that he thinks his plan isn't a couple of year plan. 2085, it's called. Seventy to seventy-five years to completion; a long, hard-fought battle.
He was cutting deeply into the enemy's next generation's critical leadership, crippling (he hoped) their long-term political capability.
Or empowering them.
| 455 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:53:01am |
re: #449 negativ
re: #444 kirkspencer
re: #445 JJ42
re: #446 Rightwingconspirator
Take a couple of steps back. This guy killed children, deliberately, in the course of acting out his fantasy. Full stop.
Weird. I'd say taking the couple of steps back is necessary to see it's MORE than just the dead children. He targeted those children for a reason besides his own amusement.
Criminally, the key thing is he killed 97 people, most of whom were between the ages of 13 and 18. If he's alone, that's enough.
If he isn't alone - if there are others who support him, if not actually (the possible second gunman) then in principle - then it's very important to note the reason why he chose that attack.
| 456 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:53:45am |
And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons
| 457 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:40am |
re: #450 JJ42
Police press conference about Utøya shootings right now: Shooting started about 17:30. The swat team arrived on the island by boat 18:25. The killer was apprehended 18:27, with no shots fired. He still possessed a substantial amount of ammunition, but chose to surrender when called out. Judging from his manifesto, he was expecting 'martyrdom' at the hands of the police. I think it's quite impressive that they got him alive. Usually these kinds of killers take their own life rather than surrendering (only to be executed later.) If Norway had the death penalty, I suspect he would have killed him self, or chosen "death by cop"
No, read his manifesto. He specifies that the operative should surrender to police if caught and avoid shooting it out. First, because if it goes to trial that's another opportunity to "tell the truth" (push propaganda). Second, because alive always has the chance of escape or rescue letting the operative do more, later.
| 458 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:55:05am |
re: #455 kirkspencer
If he isn't alone - if there are others who support him, if not actually (the possible second gunman) then in principle - then it's very important to note the reason why he chose that attack.
Indeed.
| 459 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:57:35am |
re: #453 Rightwingconspirator
Reuters had a story earlier that said some people were being questioned but were released. re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar
According to Reuters, the people detained in North East Oslo have been released.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
| 460 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:59:50am |
re: #447 Cannadian Club Akbar
I misread it. I thought you used young republicans as an example. didn't realize the camp had an actual political purpose.
Yeah. I used the Young Republican gathering as a closest similar sort of gathering, to show the consequences.
| 462 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:58am |
| 463 |
Varek Raith Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:03:47am |
| 464 |
allegro Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:04:16am |
re: #444 kirkspencer
Yes, but... I don't know if I was clear enough. This camp wasn't just a 'fun summer camp'. It was in part a political activists' camp for the children of that particular political slice, many of them the children of leaders and major supporters of those leaders.
My first thought was that this was the way to do maximum damage to the leadership he apparently hates. What is worse than killing their children? Much worse that killing them. It is a statement that they are very, very vulnerable no matter how much protection they might have themselves.
| 465 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:05:07am |
Does anyone else still have trouble editing pages after you post them? The "save changes" button is still off the screen and I can't resize the window enough to access it.
| 466 |
Gus Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:05:55am |
Last night I was looking through Fjordman's (aka Baron Bodissey) "work" and came across this hysterical gem of insanity:
The Coming Crash - Sunday, November 22, 2009 (Cached Link)
Here are some highlights:
• I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism.
• There will be a pan-Western and perhaps international economic and social collapse in the not-too-distant future.
• We need to learn from our enemies, both internal and external...They must be squashed, otherwise we cannot deal rationally and adequately with our external enemies.
• We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway.
• We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references, for instance by making a video dedicated to anti-white verbal and physical violence around the world. We must take steps to ensure our physical safety and regain pride in our heritage.
• The current US President Obama has publicly pledged himself to combat opposition to Islam rather than Islam itself, which means that it is official US policy to spread Islamic law.
• If the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire then the USA is the Diversity Empire, committed to spreading Multiculturalism and genetic Communism around the world, especially to white majority countries.
• The United States will not survive this century. It will be split into several countries according to ethnic, racial and perhaps even ideological lines. There is no such thing as a universal nation. People want to live with their own kind. The only ones who are not allowed to do so are whites, and they are starting to get tired of this double standard.
• Anti-white ideologies are now taught in every Western university and were arguably elevated to national ideology in the USA with the election of Obama.
Notice the similarities?
| 467 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:06:16am |
re: #449 negativ
Yes, and because of that he will most likely never get any support from anybody, including hardcore neo-nazis. In the end he's nothing more than a simple child killer. Just as bad as the islamists he claim to be fighting, and no more morally superior than the school shooters in the US.
It takes a truly twisted mind to dedicate 10 years of your life to planning a mass murder against defenseless kids.
| 469 |
Varek Raith Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:08:03am |
| 470 |
Kronocide Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:09:10am |
re: #450 JJ42
Police press conference about Utøya shootings right now: Shooting started about 17:30. The swat team arrived on the island by boat 18:25. The killer was apprehended 18:27, with no shots fired. He still possessed a substantial amount of ammunition, but chose to surrender when called out. Judging from his manifesto, he was expecting 'martyrdom' at the hands of the police. I think it's quite impressive that they got him alive. Usually these kinds of killers take their own life rather than surrendering (only to be executed later.) If Norway had the death penalty, I suspect he would have killed him self, or chosen "death by cop"
I think he wanted to live. The notoriety and his perceived relevance will increase. In the end his ego and narcissism is what drove him to do this, and that is what will cause him to want to live.
| 471 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:10:03am |
re: #466 Gus 802
Last night I was looking through Fjordman's (aka Baron Bodissey) "work" and came across this hysterical gem of insanity:
The Coming Crash - Sunday, November 22, 2009 (Cached Link)
Here are some highlights:
Notice the similarities?
Amish?
/
| 473 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:12:00am |
re: #457 kirkspencer
Ok, I stand corrected. I only skimmed his manifesto and my impression was that he considered police officers to be traitors who should be killed. He also said that he expected to get killed or wounded.
| 474 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:12:56am |
re: #466 Gus 802
Last night I was looking through Fjordman's (aka Baron Bodissey) "work" and came across this hysterical gem of insanity:
The Coming Crash - Sunday, November 22, 2009 (Cached Link)
Here are some highlights:
Notice the similarities?
We saw this coming. I wish we had been wrong. Charles showed great wisdom in getting rid of the crazies as soon as he did. THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS NOT MY FRIEND!
| 476 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:16:57am |
re: #466 Gus 802
• We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway.
• We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references, for instance by making a video dedicated to anti-white verbal and physical violence around the world. We must take steps to ensure our physical safety and regain pride in our heritage.
Identical.
| 477 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:18:52am |
I think the stalkers are running that tweeting script again on my garden page. Idiots.
| 478 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:19:30am |
re: #473 JJ42
Ok, I stand corrected. I only skimmed his manifesto and my impression was that he considered police officers to be traitors who should be killed. He also said that he expected to get killed or wounded.
Yah, it's confusing. Your part is there, but he's a lousy writer - or cut and paster.
Summarized and simplifying, he is saying:
Target police officers (as an example target) as traitors in the initial attacks. These are risky, and you should realize you might be killed in the process. However, do not prefer death to surrender once the mission is done. Instead surrender so you can do more.
| 479 |
JJ42 Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:20:26am |
A quote that springs to my mind in this situation:
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
(Friedrich Nietzsche)
The killer wanted to fight the 'multicultural marxist monster', but he ended up as the worst child killing monster in Norwegian history.
| 480 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:20:39am |
re: #477 Killgore Trout
I think the stalkers are running that tweeting script again on my garden page. Idiots.
Maybe they're just really big fans of squash. And frogs.
| 481 |
What, me worry? Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:20:52am |
re: #467 JJ42
Yes, and because of that he will most likely never get any support from anybody, including hardcore neo-nazis. In the end he's nothing more than a simple child killer. Just as bad as the islamists he claim to be fighting, and no more morally superior than the school shooters in the US.
It takes a truly twisted mind to dedicate 10 years of your life to planning a mass murder against defenseless kids.
Well.... time will tell if he is truly only a lone gunman with racist ideology. And for the sake of humanity, I pray this is the case.
But when we see what he's been doing for those 10 years and who he has been listening to it gets more frightening. Geller has been posting that this nut shouldn't be equated to anything she or her racist organization SIOE has been saying, but that's bullshit. In his online manifesto, the SIOE is featured prominently. She and others have emboldened this man. She can run from that all she likes, but there it is. While she rails on and on about Islamophobia she says nothing what TO DO about it other than STOP it, but how do you do that?
Breviak wanted to do that by starting a civil war/world war that would pit Christian against Muslim in a bloody battle. Norway, Europe has to stop that and that's why I say it can embolden them not to succumb to these "new" terrorists.
| 482 |
Lidane Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:21:28am |
re: #474 Shiplord Kirel
We saw this coming. I wish we had been wrong. Charles showed great wisdom in getting rid of the crazies as soon as he did. THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS NOT MY FRIEND!
I missed all that time at LGF. I didn't get here until right around the time that Charles officially broke with the right. It's interesting to read all these posts from people who have been here longer and who have more context to go on.
| 483 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:23:02am |
Gates of Vienna...
Fjordman Welcomes Our New Readers
Welcome to readers of Dagbladet and Der Spiegel!
The latter publication, however, falsely labels us a “hate blog.” This is not true: we are a love blog; we are lovers of truth.
I will try to respond to the best of my abilities to the rumors that are now spreading. The top rumor to kill, still being circulated in certain quarters by people who should know better, is that I am identical to the shooter.
I am not. Nor have I ever met him.
...
Note from this blog’s owners: Due to the unusual situation in which it has recently found itself, this blog will be closed to comments until further notice.
He still hasn't said anything about his private conversations of emails with the terrorist. GoV doesn't want people posting questions about their relationship with the killer. I suspect they're really shitting pickles about this. Could be big trouble.
| 484 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:24:32am |
re: #481 marjoriemoon
Well... time will tell if he is truly only a lone gunman with racist ideology. And for the sake of humanity, I pray this is the case.
Norway Police Arrest Six Over Terror Attacks
I haven't had time to follow up on this development yet.
| 485 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:28:46am |
Pam Geller refudiates self by parroting the terrorist's rhetoric.....
Murderer's manifesto imagined cautious alliance with Jihadists: “We both share one common goal”
He is responsible for his actions. He and only he. There was no "ideology" here. No mandate for murder, and all the leftists, Islamic apologists and Islamic supremacists and media hounds won't make it so. Watching CNN and BBC coverage about Norway, I found very disturbing to hear the number of times they use the word "Christian." They would never dare refer to religion when it is jihad, and this attack had nothing to do with Christianity. It is outrageous.
| 486 |
Varek Raith Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:29:16am |
re: #483 Killgore Trout
Gates of Vienna...
Fjordman Welcomes Our New Readers
He still hasn't said anything about his private conversations of emails with the terrorist. GoV doesn't want people posting questions about their relationship with the killer. I suspect they're really shitting pickles about this. Could be big trouble.
They remind me of those Imams who preach hate and run away/deny when someone acts on it.
| 487 |
Gus Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:31:03am |
Take a look at this. This is from the Fjordman screed:
The leading “Multicultural theorist” in my country, Professor Thomas Hylland Eriksen of the University of Oslo, said frankly that the most important thing to do now is “deconstructing the majority so thoroughly that it can never be called the majority again.” He is essentially calling for dismantling his own people and he knows that he can do so with total impunity.
Now look at this from Breivik's manifesto (p. 734):
And that we will do the world a big favor by contributing to our own extermination through third world colonisation. The self loathing runs deep through most aspects of society. To quote one of the most influential professors in Norway, Thomas Hylland Eriksen:
“Our (the Marxist elites of Europe) most important task ahead is to deconstruct the majority, and we must deconstruct them so thoroughly that they will never be able to call themselves the majority again”.
| 488 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:31:36am |
A friendly German is defending LGF in the comments at Der Speigle...
Kurzer Hinweis: 'little green footballs' ist nicht mehr rechts. Ganz im Gegenteil. Man könnte es als watchblog gegen die rechtsradikalen Auswüchse der GOP und der Tea-Party-Bewegung bezeichnen.Siehe auch Why I Parted Ways With The Right von LGF-Gründer und Betreiber Charles Johnson
| 489 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:32:39am |
re: #459 Cannadian Club Akbar
That's a relief.
| 490 |
Varek Raith Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:33:19am |
re: #488 Killgore Trout
Translation
'Little green footballs' is no longer to the right. Quite the contrary. One could designate it as a watchblog against the radical right-wing outgrowths of the GOP and the Tea-party-movement.
| 491 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:34:22am |
re: #484 Killgore Trout
Norway Police Arrest Six Over Terror Attacks
I haven't had time to follow up on this development yet.
From the link, "The detainees [the six arrested you mention] were later released, with police saying they had no link to the attacks."
| 492 |
What, me worry? Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:35:05am |
re: #484 Killgore Trout
Norway Police Arrest Six Over Terror Attacks
I haven't had time to follow up on this development yet.
Norway and the rest of Europe are taking this very seriously, ideology included. They have to.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
Norwegian prime minister Jens Stoltenberg promised last night that Norway would not be "bombed into silence" after the attacks in the Scandinavian country.
At a press conference in Oslo, Stoltenberg, pictured, said that those guilty for the atrocities would be brought to justice and that the attacks would bring "more openess and more democracy" to the country.
| 493 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:35:44am |
re: #491 kirkspencer
From the link, "The detainees [the six arrested you mention] were later released, with police saying they had no link to the attacks."
Ah, thanks. I didn't catch that. I have too many windows open this morning.
| 494 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:37:07am |
re: #477 Killgore Trout
I think the stalkers are running that tweeting script again on my garden page. Idiots.
There are legions of us gardeners out here, banding together against the slugs.
| 495 |
kirkspencer Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:37:27am |
re: #487 Gus 802
Take a look at this. This is from the Fjordman screed:
Now look at this from Breivik's manifesto (p. 734):
A lot of the manifesto is cut and place with selected words replaced. Much of the rest is re-write plagiarism instead of cut and place.
The only almost pure original section is the final days section.
| 496 |
simoom Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:37:53am |
I just saw some GOP congressmen on Fox, and he was asked how he would ensure Cut, Cap & Balance would be ratified by 2/3 of the states... his response was they'd only raise the debt ceiling first for a short term, and then use the next debt ceiling deadline to "pressure" the states into ratifying their constitutional amendment. So threatening to crash the economy to get what they want from the President & the Senate Dems wasn't irresponsible enough, I guess, now they want to blackmail the States too? W-T-F.
| 497 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:39:25am |
re: #494 Decatur Deb
There are legions of us gardeners out here, banding together against the slugs.
Anti-slug extremists!
| 498 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:40:04am |
| 499 |
Varek Raith Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:40:11am |
re: #496 simoom
I just saw some GOP congressmen on Fox, and he was asked how he would ensure Cut, Cap & Balance would be ratified by 2/3 of the states... his response was they'd only raise the debt ceiling first for a short term, and then use the next debt ceiling deadline to "pressure" the states into ratifying their constitutional amendment. So threatening to crash the economy to get what they want from the President & the Senate Dems wasn't irresponsible enough, I guess, now they want to blackmail the States too? W-T-F.
On a related note, I saw Cavuto freaking out a few days ago when the S&P guy said they may lower our credit rating.
"But! This is America!"
-Neil Cavuto
What a tool. Lol.
| 500 |
austin_blue Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:49:46am |
re: #468 Gus 802
Genetic Communism? WTF is that? LOL
Well, Gus, it *sure* as hell isn't the Purity of Essence that the Fjordman's of the world seem to favor.
| 501 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:51:29am |
re: #465 Killgore Trout
Does anyone else still have trouble editing pages after you post them? The "save changes" button is still off the screen and I can't resize the window enough to access it.
That kinda sounds like your video card is not in full agreement with your monitor. It's fine here. You could try a different resolution.
BTW I'm playing around with Photoshop CS5 to get more used to the new version. I hope you do not mind-I did a little retouch on your garden shot of the trombetta. The sky is still bright, Image: trombetta_copy.jpgyou might like the result... Just a little saturation on the lowest big leaf and a little more contrast overall.
| 502 |
Lidane Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:58:32am |
re: #499 Varek Raith
On a related note, I saw Cavuto freaking out a few days ago when the S&P guy said they may lower our credit rating.
"But! This is America!"
-Neil CavutoWhat a tool. Lol.
That's a very telling mindset. Cavuto seems to think that we can do what we want without consequences, even default.
American Exceptionalism!
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