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1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:28:02pm

Heres to hoping Brevik finds lots of complications . . . .

2 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:32:00pm

I'm still processing this stuff, but all day I've been thinking...

What right wing violence?

3 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:40:29pm

Ah, a shiny open thread!

In other news, Cadel Evans pretty much wrapped up the Tour de France by beating the dogshit out of Andy Schleck in a time trial. Tomorrow's last stage is the Processional to and around Paris. He will be the first Australian to win Le Tour.

4 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:46:19pm

Best horn arrangement in the world

I often open DJ sets with this.

5 Virginia Plain  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:46:44pm

I can't get through Breivik's long winded book. I'm still in the history part. Man this POS did not like women that much.

6 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:49:51pm

Hey! It's a stifling Saturday night for most of us. Let us drink Gin and Tonics and speak of the pleasant things in the world rather than the Nordic Sociopath.

How 'bout them Rangers?

7 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:50:18pm

Kid's are having a sleep over, so I've got 5 girls between the ages of 5 and 10 in the other room.

I'm barricading the bedroom door until they leave in the morning.

8 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:51:11pm

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kid's are having a sleep over, so I've got 5 girls between the ages of 5 and 10 in the other room.

I'm barricading the bedroom door until they leave in the morning.

Earplugs. Most definitely earplug night.

9 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:52:16pm

re: #5 Virginia Plain

I can't get through Breivik's long winded book. I'm still in the history part. Man this POS did not like women that much.

Yeah, I'm getting those vibes too!

10 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:14pm

re: #8 austin_blue

Earplugs. Most definitely earplug night.

Already on my third "I don't care who started it, shut up and get along" speech of the evening.

11 simoom  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:53:53pm

Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:

NYT: ‘Haboobs’ Stir Critics in Arizona

The massive dust storms that swept through central Arizona this month have stirred up not just clouds of sand but a debate over what to call them.

Phoenix Dusts Off After Giant Sandstorm Whips Through (July 7, 2011)
The blinding waves of brown particles, the most recent of which hit Phoenix on Monday, are caused by thunderstorms that emit gusts of wind, roiling the desert landscape. Use of the term “haboob,” which is what such storms have long been called in the Middle East, has rubbed some Arizona residents the wrong way.

“I am insulted that local TV news crews are now calling this kind of storm a haboob,” Don Yonts, a resident of Gilbert, Ariz., wrote to The Arizona Republic after a particularly fierce, mile-high dust storm swept through the state on July 5. “How do they think our soldiers feel coming back to Arizona and hearing some Middle Eastern term?”

...

“Meteorologists in the Southwest have used the term for decades,” said Randy Cerveny, a climatologist at Arizona State University. “The media usually avoid it because they don’t think anyone will understand it.

12 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:56:13pm

re: #10 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Already on my third "I don't care who started it, shut up and get along" speech of the evening.

You have my full and heartfelt sympathy, my man. Do you have any aerosol thorazine? That tends to calm the little buggers right down.

13 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:56:39pm

re: #11 simoom

Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:

NYT: ‘Haboobs’ Stir Critics in Arizona

geez, we absorb into our language the words that work. Haboob seems to work just as well as Tsunami or El Nino.

WTF.

14 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 9:57:32pm

Here in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland, we are having One Helluva Storm.

Or at least, I think that's what the weather people call it.

:)

15 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:00:44pm

re: #12 austin_blue

You have my full and heartfelt sympathy, my man. Do you have any aerosol thorazine? That tends to calm the little buggers right down.

Pizza, no coke.

16 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:01:56pm

re: #11 simoom

Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:

NYT: ‘Haboobs’ Stir Critics in Arizona

Dear Mr. Yonts;

Our soldiers coming back from the Middle East will absolutely adore this term. Not only have they had to suffer from these "phenomena", which is what the means in Arabic, but they get the added bonus of reading "Gigantic Haboob Hits Phoenix", which I assure you is comedy gold for a combat trooper. Please start worrying about *real* problems.

Yours truly,
A_B

17 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:03:34pm

re: #15 ggt

Pizza, no coke.

Pizza has been served. I've made sure each of my offspring were embarrassed. Wii games have been engaged.

18 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:04:17pm

re: #16 austin_blue

Dear Mr. Yonts;

Our soldiers coming back from the Middle East will absolutely adore this term. Not only have they had to suffer from these "phenomena", which is what the word means in Arabic, but they get the added bonus of reading "Gigantic Haboob Hits Phoenix", which I assure you is comedy gold for a combat trooper. Please start worrying about *real* problems.

Yours truly,
A_B

19 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:06:11pm

re: #11 simoom

Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:

NYT: ‘Haboobs’ Stir Critics in Arizona

I say "HA! Boobs!" a few times a week. Its nothing to get offended by.

20 tnguitarist  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:06:25pm

re: #11 simoom

“How do they think our soldiers feel coming back to Arizona and hearing some Middle Eastern term?”

They must really think our soldiers are wusses.

21 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:09:17pm

Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."

If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.

We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.

22 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:10:40pm

re: #21 EmmmieG

Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."

If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.

We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.

HA! BOOBS!

Oops, I did it again.

23 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:10:51pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pizza has been served. I've made sure each of my offspring were embarrassed. Wii games have been engaged.

My girlfriends and I used sleep in sleeping bags in the finished basement. We'd watch the TV till we passed-out. In the morning, early in the morning, my Dad would open the basement door and let the Beagle down stairs. He was always so excited to be with the girls.

We didn't appreciate his doggy enthusiasm.

24 simoom  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:12:42pm

re: #21 EmmmieG

Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."

If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.

We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.

From what I recall of gradeschool, someone saying the word "it" was enough to trigger someone declaring, "You said it!" and then a round of snickering. :P

25 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:03pm

re: #21 EmmmieG

Xenophobia aside, there's a major problem with the term "Haboob."

If you can't figure it out, find a thirteen year old boy to explain it to you.

We'll need a term that does not cause snickering.

I think it depends on how you pronounce it. I don't think there is the Texas drawl if it's done correctly.

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:07pm

re: #23 ggt

My girlfriends and I used sleep in sleeping bags in the finished basement. We'd watch the TV till we passed-out. In the morning, early in the morning, my Dad would open the basement door and let the Beagle down stairs. He was always so excited to be with the girls.

We didn't appreciate his doggy enthusiasm.

It could be worse. My little sister was woken up two days in a row by her 18 month old picking her nose for her.

27 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:13:35pm

re: #26 EmmmieG

It could be worse. My little sister was woken up two days in a row by her 18 month old picking her nose for her.

ROTFLAMO!

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:16:50pm
29 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:21:55pm

Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.

Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.

30 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:23:27pm

"WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
"...Screaming."
"Why are you screaming?"
"We don't know."

/facepalm

31 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:24:47pm

re: #29 EmmmieG

Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.

Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.

Got to figure someone related to the victims might think 21 years for 1 guy might be a fair exchange.

32 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:29:37pm

Don't be such a haboob.

33 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:30:25pm

re: #29 EmmmieG

Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.

Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.

Don't know yet. We have to wait to see how they are going to prosecute.

34 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:30:57pm

I just tried to read some of the manifesto.

I don't think I"ll be finishing it.

35 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:31:38pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to figure someone related to the victims might think 21 years for 1 guy might be a fair exchange.

Think they'll have to keep him in solitary to keep the other prisoners from taking justice into their own hands. . . .

36 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:34:17pm

re: #29 EmmmieG

Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.

Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.

I don't want get into a debate about this particular case, but more generally: can you step back a minute and think about how long 21 years is?

It's an unimaginably long time to sit in a 8'x10' box.

Do not mistake this for a plea for compassion or leniency.

37 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:34:38pm

re: #29 EmmmieG

Um, is that 21 years in prison total? Or 21 years for each and every person killed.

Good with the latter, not with the former. Killing nearly 100 people should cost you more than two decades.

As noted in the last thread, 21 years is the maximum sentence, but in cases where the killer might still be a "danger to society", additional 5 year extensions may be applied until the rotten sociopath dies a natural death in prison. So his actual imprisonment can be "Life and a Day".

38 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:35:25pm

re: #36 negativ

I don't want get into a debate about this particular case, but more generally: can you step back a minute and think about how long 21 years is?

It's an unimaginably long time to sit in a 8'x10' box.

Do not mistake this for a plea for compassion or leniency.

I think he took it into account. It is part of his plan to be martyred.

39 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:37:19pm

re: #30 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
"...Screaming."
"Why are you screaming?"
"We don't know."

/facepalm

See? Earplugs.

40 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:37:50pm

re: #36 negativ

I don't want get into a debate about this particular case, but more generally: can you step back a minute and think about how long 21 years is?

It's an unimaginably long time to sit in a 8'x10' box.

Do not mistake this for a plea for compassion or leniency.

It's not going to be in a box. It's going to be in a bedroom. This will be in a Norwegian prison not Rikers Island. This is the one at Halden:

Image: norwegianprisonthumb01ao9.jpg

41 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:38:25pm

re: #38 ggt

I think he took it into account. It is part of his plan to be martyred.

He'll be in the public eye the rest of his life. After the first 21, he'll be in the news at least every 5 years--keeping his ideas alive.

He wrote he had been working on the book for 9 years. He has planned it well.

42 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:39:21pm

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to figure someone related to the victims might think 21 years for 1 guy might be a fair exchange.

I think if we're going to figure then I have to figure that someone related to the victims is going to think it's not a fair exchange. 21 years for something like this is absurd. The police said he was facing 21 years and my previous post reflects the maximum sentence in Norway as being 21 years.

43 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:39:44pm

re: #41 ggt

He'll be in the public eye the rest of his life. After the first 21, he'll be in the news at least every 5 years--keeping his ideas alive.

He wrote he had been working on the book for 9 years. He has planned it well.

But right wingers are saying there is no way to tell what made him snap...

44 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:40:22pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But right wingers are saying there is no way to tell what made him snap...

I can speculate . . . .

45 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:43:16pm

re: #42 Gus 802

I think if we're going to figure then I have to figure that someone related to the victims is going to think it's not a fair exchange. 21 years for something like this is absurd. The police said he was facing 21 years and my previous post reflects the maximum sentence in Norway as being 21 years.

He could be tried separately for each murder.

Just schedule each trial 21 years apart...
/

46 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:44:40pm

If he is 32 now, and has been writing for 9 years --he started at 23.

The made-for-TV movies and pseudo-psych documentaries we are going to have to endure overwhelm me.

47 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:44:57pm

re: #42 Gus 802

I think if we're going to figure then I have to figure that someone related to the victims is going to think it's not a fair exchange. 21 years for something like this is absurd. The police said he was facing 21 years and my previous post reflects the maximum sentence in Norway as being 21 years.

But that's not what's going to happen. If a prisoner is determined to be dangerous, their sentence gets reviewed every five years and they're kept in prison if they're determined to still be a danger.

I have no idea why people are fixiating on the 21 years part.

48 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:17pm

Halden Prison - Luxury detention in Norway

Can luxury prisons and a more humane approach to detention be a deterrent for crime in modern society?

The answer lies in Halden, Norway.

About a 100 Km south of Oslo, a state of-the-art prison considered by many the World's most 'luxurious' has opened in June 2010, in a country already boasting criminal and rehabilitation systems of the highest standards.

Individual cells come with an en-suite bathroom, a flat-screen TV and various comforts. They measure 12mq and are divided up into units (10 to 12) which share a living room and kitchen, similarly to a students' dormitory.

The windows are not fitted with bars, but thick glass is used instead.

The prison - the second-largest in Norway - costs 165m Euro and accommodates 248 male inmates. Some 760,000 Euro were spent just on artworks, some of which commissioned to Norway's most renowned street artist, Dolk.

The inmates can attend a vast range of formative courses at a official high school located inside the prison. Subjects can include languages, IT, science, catering, music, (there is even a professional sound studio) art and handicraft and several sports.

The full-length feature story(*) considers whether the people involved feel that this notable investment is likely to achieve its main goals:

-the full rehabilitation of inmates during their prison term and their reintegration into civil society smoothly;

-the effective prevention of further crimes by the same offenders.

Interestingly, statistics show that in Norway only 20% of inmates (1 in 5) commit another crime and return to prison within two years of their release.

Halden Prison is set to push the number to a new low, but is the same care and investment effectively affordable to all?

49 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:27pm

In other news, I'm reeeely hoping this upset stomach isn't an e-coli infection.

50 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:45:35pm

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But right wingers are saying there is no way to tell what made him snap...

I haven't been watching this all that closely. Have they already trotted out the "lone insane wolf" line?

51 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:46:18pm

re: #34 ggt

I just tried to read some of the manifesto.

I don't think I"ll be finishing it.

I've been reading chunks of it all day. Methodical, erudite, consistent, and totally sociopathic. People are pawns to be moved on a chessboard. There is no conscience in it. No concept of humanity or pain.

He's a classic, this guy. He saved the village by destroying it. He killed the children for his vision of the greater good.

I think he truly believes that this will wake up the Norse to the dangers of multiculturalism and the looming threat of Muslim reproduction rates vs. White Euros to the looming disaster that is the ovethrow of Western thought and religion.

He is a Knight Templar in defense of Europe.

Cue The Twilight Zone theme music.

52 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:46:33pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Yep. In general, Norway has a great rehabilitative prison system and does an amazing job on cutting down on recidivism. It's the envy of many.

53 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:46:40pm

re: #47 Obdicut

But that's not what's going to happen. If a prisoner is determined to be dangerous, their sentence gets reviewed every five years and they're kept in prison if they're determined to still be a danger.

I have no idea why people are fixiating on the 21 years part.

That would be good. Got a link? The 21 years was stated by the police.

54 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:47:14pm

re: #47 Obdicut

But that's not what's going to happen. If a prisoner is determined to be dangerous, their sentence gets reviewed every five years and they're kept in prison if they're determined to still be a danger.

I have no idea why people are fixiating on the 21 years part.

Because it is unimaginable to us, here in the US.

We have such varied laws (state-to-state) and different ways of sentenceing people--such a cut-and-dried sentence is unknown.

He'll stay in prison and use it to his advantage.

Still haven't figured-out how much contact he'll be able to have with the outside world and if he'll be be able to benefit financially from anything he publishes or interviews he gives . . ..

I also wonder how much of his "wealth" is going to be depleted by the court system. I don't know how it works over there. Lawyer costs and all . . .

55 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:47:38pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Gus, I understand what you're trying to say, but at some point you have to let it go. Norway gets to punish its criminals how it chooses and we have no say.

56 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:09pm

re: #50 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I haven't been watching this all that closely. Have they already trotted out the "lone insane wolf" line?

I've seen a few claiming "He snapped."

No one who writes a fucking manifesto and engages in a months of planning "snapped".

57 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:20pm

re: #53 Gus 802

That would be good. Got a link? The 21 years was stated by the police.

You quoted it yourself in your post last thread, dude.

The maximum indeterminate penalty, called "containment" (Norwegian: forvaring), is also set at 21 years imprisonment, and the prisoner is required to serve at least 10 years before becoming eligible for parole. "Containment" is used when the prisoner is deemed a danger to society and there is a great chance of committing violent crimes in the future. If the prisoner is still considered dangerous after serving the original sentence, the prisoner can receive up to five years additional containment.

If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment. However, the offender can be paroled or released at any time if it is determined that the offender is no longer a danger to society.

58 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:31pm

re: #55 JasonA

Gus, I understand what you're trying to say, but at some point you have to let it go. Norway gets to punish its criminals how it chooses and we have no say.

Oh I realize that. It's their country so if they're fine with 21 years it's not like my head is going to explode daily because of this.

59 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:48:52pm

re: #52 Obdicut

Yep. In general, Norway has a great rehabilitative prison system and does an amazing job on cutting down on recidivism. It's the envy of many.

hmmm, but they haven't had a crime like this one.

I think the goal of ABB's recidivism is ZERO.

60 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:49:41pm

re: #57 Obdicut

You quoted it yourself in your post last thread, dude.

Ah. OK. Thanks dude.

61 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:50:35pm

re: #60 Gus 802

Ah. OK. Thanks dude.

Dude, it's okay, dude.

Image: bl-dude.jpeg

62 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:50:36pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've seen a few claiming "He snapped."

No one who writes a fucking manifesto and engages in a months of planning "snapped".

Yeah, he did. Sometime before he was 23. Something happened to cause him to seek this type of "membership". Wiki says his parents divorced when he was young, he was raised by his mother with his siblings . . .

I still want to know about the studio photos showing him looking so spiffy.

WTF?

63 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:51:12pm

Damn. Look at this "cell".

[Link: alexmasi.photoshelter.com...]

64 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:51:41pm

re: #63 Gus 802

Damn. Look at this "cell".

[Link: alexmasi.photoshelter.com...]

There are American's who would commit crimes to get digs so good.

65 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:52:16pm

re: #61 Obdicut

Dude, it's okay, dude.

Image: bl-dude.jpeg

Dude. Alright dude. Hey dude. Man. Dude. Like...

I heard this over 50 something guy using the word dude every other sentence on July 4th. I wanted to punch him in the nose. ;)

66 Kronocide  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:52:20pm

Dude? Dude. Like, Duuuuude! Dude.?

67 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:52:29pm

re: #40 Gus 802

It's not going to be in a box. It's going to be in a bedroom. This will be in a Norwegian prison not Rikers Island. This is the one at Halden:

Image: norwegianprisonthumb01ao9.jpg

Well that SURELY must be representative of every prison in Norway, and not at all a special case cherry-picked by a Fox News-type outlet in order to inflame outrage among the LAW-n-ORDER types.

NEVERTHELESS:

How many years do you think you could spend locked in a Motel 6 before going out of your mind?*

* - I had a completely different and much better point when I started blathering all this, but then I got distracted by my dog's insistence on PLAY TIME, and now that I've spent a few minutes engaging my dog in shenanigans, I haven't the slightest idea what point I was going to make. Obliquely, this illustrates the fact that dogs are better than humans. If you don't agree, I'll pay a homeless woman to shit on your favorite pillow. So there.

68 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:08pm

re: #63 Gus 802

Damn. Look at this "cell".

[Link: alexmasi.photoshelter.com...]

And they feel this system has served them well. This crime we're looking at now is a major outlier.

69 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:20pm

re: #63 Gus 802

The funny part to me is how many people get angry about how well prisoner's are treated in Norway, and just choose to ignore that it works.

They have incredibly low amounts of inmate violence, incredibly low amounts of recidivism. It's a really amazingly well-done system.

It's not entirely transportable here, because Norwegian society is also invested in giving the prisoners a second chance, whereas ours has a tendency to treat ex-felons as radioactive, but it's really worth study if we want to fix our prisons.

70 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:24pm

re: #67 negativ

Well that SURELY must be representative of every prison in Norway, and not at all a special case cherry-picked by a Fox News-type outlet in order to inflame outrage among the LAW-n-ORDER types.

NEVERTHELESS:

How many years do you think you could spend locked in a Motel 6 before going out of your mind?*

* - I had a completely different and much better point when I started blathering all this, but then I got distracted by my dog's insistence on PLAY TIME, and now that I've spent a few minutes engaging my dog in shenanigans, I haven't the slightest idea what point I was going to make. Obliquely, this illustrates the fact that dogs are better than humans. If you don't agree, I'll pay a homeless woman to shit on your favorite pillow. So there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I fell for it. You know I'm just another redneck hick that watches Fox News every day. Dude.

//

71 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:53:29pm

re: #67 negativ

Well that SURELY must be representative of every prison in Norway, and not at all a special case cherry-picked by a Fox News-type outlet in order to inflame outrage among the LAW-n-ORDER types.

NEVERTHELESS:

How many years do you think you could spend locked in a Motel 6 before going out of your mind?*

* - I had a completely different and much better point when I started blathering all this, but then I got distracted by my dog's insistence on PLAY TIME, and now that I've spent a few minutes engaging my dog in shenanigans, I haven't the slightest idea what point I was going to make. Obliquely, this illustrates the fact that dogs are better than humans. If you don't agree, I'll pay a homeless woman to shit on your favorite pillow. So there.

He is already lost his mind.

Prison is supossed to be horrible. It's kinda the point.

72 Targetpractice  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:54:02pm

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've seen a few claiming "He snapped."

No one who writes a fucking manifesto and engages in a months of planning "snapped".

Yeah, I always love how the right-wing nutjobs have years long "snaps." Kinda like the serial killer who was "so normal," while he had twenty bodies under the floor boards of his house.

73 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:54:40pm

re: #61 Obdicut

re: #65 Gus 802

re: #66 BigPapa

74 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:55:00pm

re: #69 Obdicut

but it's really worth study if we want to fix our prisons.

We don't. Not large numbers of us at least.

75 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:55:32pm

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

76 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:56:07pm

re: #71 ggt

He is already lost his mind.

Prison is supossed to be horrible. It's kinda the point.

I thought the point was rehabilitation/incarceration.

77 Mocking Jay  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:56:22pm

re: #72 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I always love how the right-wing nutjobs have years long "snaps." Kinda like the serial killer who was "so normal," while he had twenty bodies under the floor boards of his house.

Hm. I dare say ABB's "snap" lasted longer than Hasan's...

78 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:56:29pm

re: #71 ggt


Prison is supossed to be horrible. It's kinda the point.

No. The point should be that those who go to prison don't commit more crimes when they come out.

It's something the US has largely given up on, but Norway is very, very successful at.

79 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:57:05pm

re: #75 Obdicut

[Video]

80 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:57:05pm

re: #69 Obdicut

The funny part to me is how many people get angry about how well prisoner's are treated in Norway, and just choose to ignore that it works.

They have incredibly low amounts of inmate violence, incredibly low amounts of recidivism. It's a really amazingly well-done system.

It's not entirely transportable here, because Norwegian society is also invested in giving the prisoners a second chance, whereas ours has a tendency to treat ex-felons as radioactive, but it's really worth study if we want to fix our prisons.

Do you think it is comparable. Their population is much different that ours. I think our crime is probably much different too--at least in scale.

I'd like to think that some parts of it could be implemented here, but by the time the inmate get's to prison it is often too late. Many do succeed, but it's a tough road.

In my perfect world, every child would get whatever he or she needs to thrive in the world . . . . ..

81 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:01pm

re: #77 JasonA

Hm. I dare say ABB's "snap" lasted longer than Hasan's...

Same result, different religion.

82 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:11pm

re: #78 Obdicut

No. The point should be that those who go to prison don't commit more crimes when they come out.

It's something the US has largely given up on, but Norway is very, very successful at.

I think the sentence should be long but I also think they should be allowed TVs, books, a bed, maybe a window. Heck, I'd say something like what I posted but a long sentence. I'd have to think about a final design for a prison cell. But I'm not one of those people that think prisoners should be put in an empty cell with a "concrete bed" and little or nothing else. But I feel funny mentioning this in this context considering. This asshole should be given the Osama bin Laden sentence.

83 Spocomptonite  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:16pm

re: #28 ggt

$1M in wine --gone, just gone.

"...but it smelled phenomenal."

Funniest thing I've read all day.

84 Lidane  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 10:59:27pm

Alleged Norwegian Terrorist Posted Video Outlining His Conservative Beliefs, Depicts President Obama As A ‘Marxist’

The video is at the link. I wasn't sure about posting it, but it's there if you have 12 minutes to spare.

85 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:00:00pm

re: #76 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought the point was rehabilitation/incarceration.

Well, there seems to be some disagreement on that. And that is the problem, IMHO. Is it to punish and keep society safe from the individual or is it to rehabilitate the person?

As I understand it, Prison is to Punish. Under the current meme--legally speaking anyway.

WE try to do both and I think it is counterproductive.

If we poured 1/2 the money into individualized education that we pour into the prison system, we might make a difference.

86 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:00:05pm

re: #80 ggt

Do you think it is comparable. Their population is much different that ours. I think our crime is probably much different too--at least in scale.

I think our society's attitudes towards prisoners-- that once you've gone to prison you're tainted forever-- is the main problem. There's very little open to someone who's a felon.

I'd like to think that some parts of it could be implemented here, but by the time the inmate get's to prison it is often too late. Many do succeed, but it's a tough road.

Except, of course, for all the non-violent felons who get to prison and are basically taught how to be even worse criminals. Our prisons are basically criminal training grounds.

87 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:00:14pm

re: #78 Obdicut

No. The point should be that those who go to prison don't commit more crimes when they come out.

It's something the US has largely given up on, but Norway is very, very successful at.

Yeah but in Norway the prisoners go back to their nice neighborhood in beautiful Norway. They don't go back to the streets of Trenton or Camden.

88 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:01:47pm

re: #87 Gus 802

Yeah but in Norway the prisoners go back to their nice neighborhood in beautiful Norway. They don't go back to the streets of Trenton or Camden.

Yep. And they go back to a system with a very strong socialist network, so they're not going to be immediately back in the same cycle of poverty that landed them in prison in the first place.

I wish I had some ginger for my stomach.

89 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:03:19pm

re: #86 Obdicut

I think our society's attitudes towards prisoners-- that once you've gone to prison you're tainted forever-- is the main problem. There's very little open to someone who's a felon.

Except, of course, for all the non-violent felons who get to prison and are basically taught how to be even worse criminals. Our prisons are basically criminal training grounds.

The system sucks all the way around. Once a kid is in the system, they grow-up in it. It is sooo hard to get out of it with out parents who really want to help you and money.

There are a lot of inmates who simply learning to read would make all the difference, but that takes resources . . . .

The only answer I have is Contraception and Education.

Again, in my perfect world . . . .

90 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:03:22pm

re: #84 Lidane

He just tied himself to the Tea Party by saying that.

This opens up brand new lanes hurt the Tea Party's ideology and image.

The European Anti-Muslim Movement has been heavily damaged, if not killed. Maybe this can help finish the TPGOP.

91 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:18pm

re: #88 Obdicut

Yep. And they go back to a system with a very strong socialist network, so they're not going to be immediately back in the same cycle of poverty that landed them in prison in the first place.

I wish I had some ginger for my stomach.

Plus violent crimes are rare in Norway. Until now. They'll probably go back to being that way for a very long time. So the average prisoner isn't like the ones here where you get a lot of violent criminals. Yeah, it's complicated. I'll be long dead and it will still be screwed up because it's screwed up in the USA on many levels.

92 elizajane  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:28pm

re: #86 Obdicut

I think our society's attitudes towards prisoners-- that once you've gone to prison you're tainted forever-- is the main problem. There's very little open to someone who's a felon.

One of the things that bugs me the most about the American political system (along with gerrymandering and campaign financing) is that convicted felons aren't allowed to vote, even after they've served their sentence. I find that genuinely shocking. There should be no way that the country can make somebody disappear as a political being, not after they've paid their penalty. It's just wrong.

93 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:34pm

re: #90 ProLifeLiberal

He just tied himself to the Tea Party by saying that.

This opens up brand new lanes hurt the Tea Party's ideology and image.

The European Anti-Muslim Movement has been heavily damaged, if not killed. Maybe this can help finish the TPGOP.

Oh the Rationalization and Justification will be mind-boggling. Mix it with the Murdoch scandal and FOX will be a play-ground for the totally deluded.

94 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:04:39pm

re: #84 Lidane

Alleged Norwegian Terrorist Posted Video Outlining His Conservative Beliefs, Depicts President Obama As A ‘Marxist’

The video is at the link. I wasn't sure about posting it, but it's there if you have 12 minutes to spare.

Posted way earlier, home girl. Originally on YouTube, it got hauled down for violating terms-of-cervix-- err..service (sorry, it's late). Chilling, isn't it? The Knight Templar once again rescuing Europe from the ravaging horde.

By the way, I found out why the temps in Austin this year has been so high.

The Sun Is Too Damn Hot.

95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:05:11pm

re: #62 ggt

Yeah, he did. Sometime before he was 23.

I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.

It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.

96 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:05:36pm

re: #94 austin_blue

Posted way earlier, home girl. Originally on YouTube, it got hauled down for violating terms-of-cervix-- err..service (sorry, it's late). Chilling, isn't it? The Knight Templar once again rescuing Europe from the ravaging horde.

By the way, I found out why the temps in Austin this year has been so high.

The Sun Is Too Damn Hot.

And the Rent is Too Damn High!

97 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:11pm

re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.

It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.

Or laughing at his thingy.

:)

98 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:23pm

re: #96 ggt

And the Rent is Too Damn High!

I thought someone might twig to that. Well done!

99 Lidane  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:37pm

re: #94 austin_blue

By the way, I found out why the temps in Austin this year has been so high.

The Sun Is Too Damn Hot.

And it's only going to get worse with all the hot air from Goodhair and his fellow reactionary nutjobs. =P

100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:44pm

re: #90 ProLifeLiberal

He just tied himself to the Tea Party by saying that.

This opens up brand new lanes hurt the Tea Party's ideology and image.

The European Anti-Muslim Movement has been heavily damaged, if not killed. Maybe this can help finish the TPGOP.

Doubtful. I hope you're right, but I think the GOTP is just getting started, personally.

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:06:51pm

re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.

It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.

You think he is straight?

Or does he know?

102 Obdicut  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:07:42pm

Alright. I'm going to take a bath and see if I can get my stomach to calm down.

Have a good night, all.

103 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:08:18pm

re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I still think it was some non-Norwegian girl refusing to give in to his demands, personally.

It so often boils down to that with these rwnj pretty boys.

Nine years is a long time to build that kind of whack worldview because a girl told you to get stuffed...

104 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:09:03pm

re: #103 austin_blue

Nine years is a long time to build that kind of whack worldview because a girl told you to get stuffed...

Yeah, but he is a psychopath.

105 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:09:29pm

re: #96 ggt

And the Rent is Too Damn High!

Tell me about it. Yeesh. Over 1 grand for a 1 bedroom. 1 grand! Every single month you have to come up with over 1 grand. Just for a stupid ugly little 1 bedroom.

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:09:45pm

re: #98 austin_blue

I thought someone might twig to that. Well done!

(ggt takes bow)

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:10:24pm

re: #105 Gus 802

Tell me about it. Yeesh. Over 1 grand for a 1 bedroom. 1 grand! Every single month you have to come up with over 1 grand. Just for a stupid ugly little 1 bedroom.

Hey, in Chicago that could get you a studio.

Be thankful.

108 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:11:36pm

Hitler was disgruntled because he wanted to be an artist but could sell his stuff or get accepted to art school or some such thing.

Sorry for the Godwin reference, but Psychpaths have strange triggers.

109 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:11:49pm

re: #93 ggt

Won't be able to help the Euro-nuts. And that is alone an improvement. Unfortunately, we operate independent of Europe, meaning we will have a catastrophe here.

re: #100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

But the TPGOP will dwindle. They are demographically boxed in.

110 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:11:54pm

re: #107 ggt

Hey, in Chicago that could get you a studio.

Be thankful.

Yeesh. That's like buying 3 nice old used cars every year. I remember when I first moved to Denver a little over 20 years ago. I was paying $250 a month for a little carriage house. Wasn't the greatest but it had its charms. $250!

111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:12:02pm

re: #101 ggt

You think he is straight?

Or does he know?

Yeah, anything's possible. Though, I don't see him obsessing about the queers like the closet case rwnj males. That's something of a tell.

But yeah all this murderous drama could really just boil down to those reasons why he doesn't have a gf..

112 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:14:20pm

re: #111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, anything's possible. Though, I don't see him obsessing about the queers like the closet case rwnj males. That's something of a tell.

But yeah all this murderous drama could really just boil down to those reasons why he doesn't have a gf..

Oh boy. If it does we'll never hear the end of it from the wingnuts.

113 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:15:01pm

re: #111 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, anything's possible. Though, I don't see him obsessing about the queers like the closet case rwnj males. That's something of a tell.

But yeah all this murderous drama could really just boil down to those reasons why he doesn't have a gf..

I get all Freudian about this stuff.

114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:16:56pm

re: #103 austin_blue

Nine years is a long time to build that kind of whack worldview because a girl told you to get stuffed...

Lol be a girl, tell a guy to go get stuffed, watch the pathology ensue.

Seriously though, these kind of rwnj males simply cannot compete in the modern world. The other men "steal" "their" women, "their own" women snicker at their d%ck size, they can't get anywhere with nonwhite women unless it's through force; immigration means there are more people to compete with..those things have gotta hurt when the government is no longer rigging things specifically in your favor like it did for dad and grampa.

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:17:34pm

re: #114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol be a girl, tell a guy to go get stuffed, watch the pathology ensue.

Seriously though, these kind of rwnj males simply cannot compete in the modern world. The other men "steal" "their" women, "their own" women snicker at their d%ck size, they can't get anywhere with nonwhite women unless it's through force; immigration means there are more people to compete with..those things have gotta hurt when the government is no longer rigging things specifically in your favor like it did for dad and grampa.

[Video]

overcompensation . . . .

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:20:29pm

re: #109 ProLifeLiberal

re: #100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

But the TPGOP will dwindle. They are demographically boxed in.

True, and also dying off.

There is another generation of angry-bitters just chock full of the same old resentments, though. Ex, Breitbart, Loesch, Kris Kobach, etc. These jerks never disappear, they just morph into something else.

117 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:20:53pm

re: #114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol be a girl, tell a guy to go get stuffed, watch the pathology ensue.

Seriously though, these kind of rwnj males simply cannot compete in the modern world. The other men "steal" "their" women, "their own" women snicker at their d%ck size, they can't get anywhere with nonwhite women unless it's through force; immigration means there are more people to compete with..those things have gotta hurt when the government is no longer rigging things specifically in your favor like it did for dad and grampa.

[Video]

Men have probably been like that since prehistoric times. I picture some caveman in his late 20s (which would be ancient in those times) complaining that all of the women around his cave have to be lesbians because he still hasn't found a mate.

//

118 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:22:03pm

re: #99 Lidane

And it's only going to get worse with all the hot air from Goodhair and his fellow reactionary nutjobs. =P

I figure just after the Day of Prayer, he makes a decision. Everybody who finances GOP candidates is keeping their powder dry. Pointy Boots/Good Hair is calling all the big money down to Austin to chat (something he never did with the media in Texas).

I'm thinking they are asking him two questions.

Can you be trusted to be on point on the stump? (Answer: Hell yes. I'm great on the stump!)

And he is. Great campaigner.

Is it a problem that you haven't slept with your wife, Anita, since your daughter Sydney was born? (Answer: No problem. My family is on board with this, and no one in Texas is going to talk about my sex life. Just ask my Lieutenant Governor.)

This might be a problem for Pointy Boots/Good Hair.

119 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:22:17pm

re: #116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

True, and also dying off.

There is another generation of angry-bitters just chock full of the same old resentments, though. Ex, Breitbart, Loesch, Kris Kobach, etc. These jerks never disappear, they just morph into something else.

Growing-up Mommy tells you that you are Special. When you grow-up you find that it is only in her eyes that you are THAT special.

Reality is tough . . .

120 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:23:30pm

re: #119 ggt

Growing-up Mommy tells you that you are Special. When you grow-up you find that it is only in her eyes that you are THAT special.

Reality is tough . . .

YOU SAID SPECIAL!

121 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:23:52pm

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

YOU SAID SPECIAL!

You said Haboob!

122 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:24:22pm

I have to sleep.

Have a great morning all!

Wish I could say the same for the families in Norway. . . .

123 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:25:43pm

re: #121 ggt

You said Haboob!

I said HA! BOOB!

124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:29:56pm

re: #123 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I said HA! BOOB!

Well, as long as you didn't say

125 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:31:56pm

re: #124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, as long as you didn't say

Tits?

126 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:32:30pm

Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.

127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:32:32pm

re: #125 austin_blue

Tits?

No, meh boob...

128 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:34:20pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.

Him and Pam Geller = worst blogparents, ever.

129 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:35:02pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.

I made the mistake of looking at GoV:

Perhaps he radically changed his politics since his last post to document.no in Oct 2010 (see below). Can we see any writings of his between Oct 2010 and July 2011?

130 austin_blue  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:35:07pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.

But...but...he's a CJ fan!

The time has now come for Mr. Johnson to apologise in public to the numerous people he has smeared since the fall of 2007, starting with the ones I have mentioned above. It's not their credibility that's on the line here. It's his. If he continues to undermine those confronting Islamic infiltration, it will become increasingly difficult for LGF to present itself as an anti-Jihad website at all. At some point, the rapidly shrinking number of people in the northern hemisphere who haven't been banned from the site yet will be forced to ask themselves whether the website and its owner have simply switched teams and joined the Dark Side.

131 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:37:42pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

Imagine finding out one day that some asshole fan of yours killed over ninety people, most of them children, because he really wanted the world to read your racist, bigoted shit. That's Fjordman right now, douchebag extraordinaire.

These internet anti-Jihadists are so over the top. Think about it. Most have been at it every single day of the week for almost 10 years. Every single day filled with rage about Muslims possibly during their ever waking minute. Could you imagine such a life? So consumed with such hatred and fear 24/7?

132 Gus  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:39:24pm

It's a form of OCD.

133 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:39:28pm

And the GoV has officially labeled him a "lone wolf" because:

There are no violent “anti-Muslim” groups in Norway.

134 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:43:03pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He hasn't seen the manifesto, has he?

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:45:09pm

re: #134 ProLifeLiberal

He hasn't seen the manifesto, has he?

What manifesto! Where!

Charles Johnson wrote that!

What!!

136 Kragar  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:45:50pm

re: #134 ProLifeLiberal

He hasn't seen the manifesto, has he?

He mentioned it is comments, and has gone with the "No true counter-jihadi" argument.

137 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:48:56pm

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He's trying to save himself, which it is likely too late for.

138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Jul 23, 2011 11:54:27pm

re: #130 austin_blue

But...but...he's a CJ fan!

He's a alinsky 57 states teleprmpter terrorist progressive kkk democrat party liberal!

139 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:02:35am

re: #136 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He mentioned it is comments, and has gone with the "No true counter-jihadi" argument.

In a couple of weeks he'll be back to defending and singing the praises of the English Nazi Party EDL, Slobodan Milošević, and Mladic while his fellow rodent like readership cult followers will still be claiming that Srebrenica was a "hoax".

140 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:29:07am

re: #138 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

He's a alinsky 57 states teleprmpter terrorist progressive kkk democrat party liberal!

Yes, that would be the domestic equivalent here in the States.

One of the most chilling posts from the manifesto was posted down thread where he stated that the chance of one man being identified before he could act was 30%, two people around 50%, &c, finally saying that a group of six had a 94% chance of being interdicted before thy could act.

I think he might be right. The smaller the conspiracy, the more likely it will not come up on the radar. This is a huge problem for law enforcement. It does appear that one man, sufficiently motivated, can change the world.

The question is, what does a society do about it? There are over 300 million people in this country. Do we clamp down on everything? Or do we accept that Tim McVeighs pop up every once in a while?

Discuss!

141 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:37:24am

Charles said:


Move on up
towards your destination
Though you may find
from time to time
Complications

— Curtis Mayfield

Here's something from Curtis that's somewhat germane to what's been going on lately:


If you had a choice of color
Which one would you choose my brothers
If there was no day or night
Which would you prefer to be right
How long have you hated your white teacher
Who told you, you love your black preacher
Do you respect your brother's woman friend
And share with black folks not of kin
People must prove to the people
A better day is coming for you and for me
With just a little bit more education
And love for our nation
Would make a better society

Now some of us would rather cuss and make a fuss
Than to bring about a little trust
But we shall overcome our beliefs someday
If you'll only listen to what I have to say
And how long have you hated your white teacher
Who told you, you love your black preacher
Can you respect your brother's woman friend
And share with black folks not of kin
I said now people must prove to the people
A better day is coming for you and for me
With just a little bit more education
And love for our nation
Would make a better society
And if you had a choice of colors
Which one would you choose my brothers
If there was no day or night
Which would you prefer to be right
And If you had a choice of colors
Which one would you choose my brothers
If there was no day or night
Which would you prefer to be right

BTW, glad to be back after a week-and-a-half backpacking in the mountains of northeast NM...pics forthcoming ;-P

142 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:38:36am

re: #141 talon_262

143 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:39:17am

re: #140 austin_blue

In a free society, you have to expect there will be those who abuse the opportunities provided to them. The problem is striking a balance between protecting the citizens while encouraging their freedom.

144 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:40:45am

REHAB? I SAY NO, NO, NO!

/i just got to seattle and it's already an old joke :C

145 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 12:52:03am

re: #140 austin_blue

Yes, that would be the domestic equivalent here in the States.

One of the most chilling posts from the manifesto was posted down thread where he stated that the chance of one man being identified before he could act was 30%, two people around 50%, &c, finally saying that a group of six had a 94% chance of being interdicted before thy could act.

I think he might be right. The smaller the conspiracy, the more likely it will not come up on the radar. This is a huge problem for law enforcement. It does appear that one man, sufficiently motivated, can change the world.

The question is, what does a society do about it? There are over 300 million people in this country. Do we clamp down on everything? Or do we accept that Tim McVeighs pop up every once in a while?

Discuss!

If the targets of these people waited for "society" or law enforcement to clamp down or move beyond the navel-gazing of contemplating the existence of the Tim McVeighs, we'd still be in chains or just simply dead.

Law enforcement sees a bunch of us as natural criminals, anyway.

146 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:03:09am

re: #5 Virginia Plain

I can't get through Breivik's long winded book. I'm still in the history part. Man this POS did not like women that much.

Well, he obviously did not go on a lot of dates, too busy writing his book...

147 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:04:12am

re: #11 simoom


Why do we use these

149 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:10:16am

re: #11 simoom


*Ahem*

Why do we use these numerals instead of perfectly decent Roman ones?

150 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:10:50am

re: #11 simoom

Sheesh, I guess 'simoom' is out then too:

NYT: ‘Haboobs’ Stir Critics in Arizona

uh huh huh huh

boobs

151 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:12:21am

What is going on with the html tags?


Once again w/o tags:

Why do we use thee here Arabic numerals instead of perfectly decent, Christian Roman ones?

152 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:18:11am

It is just a knee-jerk reaction to anything vaguely Arabic or Islamic. At least it not used to justify mass violence...yet.

153 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:21:08am

re: #151 ralphieboy

Why do we use Algebra?

/

154 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:34:35am

Morning Honcos.

155 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:45:31am

re: #153 laZardo

Why do we use Algebra?

/

Don't look at me. I use binary.

156 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:56:06am

re: #155 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't look at me. I use binary.

Can't use binary without a zero...

157 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:01:41am

So...uh... this is rather awkward of me to ask but I'd like a few pointers to help myself get settled here.

I've got "restoring my CD back to Checking" and "driver's license" but it's Sunday. Also getting to know the transport system.

158 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:10:35am

re: #157 laZardo

Buy an umbrella. And make small talk by mentioning the fact that the Mariners have lost 14 games in a row. And wear a USC shirt everywhere. And tell the locals that fancy coffees are for pussies.:)

159 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:12:19am

re: #157 laZardo

So...uh... this is rather awkward of me to ask but I'd like a few pointers to help myself get settled here.

I've got "restoring my CD back to Checking" and "driver's license" but it's Sunday. Also getting to know the transport system.

Where's "here"?

160 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:12:45am

Ah, nevermind.

161 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:12:48am

re: #159 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Deepinnahearta Seattle.

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:15:09am

I only have about 5 hours to decide if I want to go boating or stay home and redo my POS resume.

163 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:18:23am

re: #157 laZardo

So...uh... this is rather awkward of me to ask but I'd like a few pointers to help myself get settled here.

I've got "restoring my CD back to Checking" and "driver's license" but it's Sunday. Also getting to know the transport system.

What part of Seattle are you in? Almost all my friends are still in Seattle, let me know what you need. Best cheap Thai food is Thai Tom in the U District. Atlantic Street Pizza is really good. Bauhaus and Cafe Vivace are some of the better coffee options. Apparently Broadway on Capitol Hill is now pretty much a shithole so don't take your posse there ...

164 Kruk  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:21:09am

re: #92 elizajane

One of the things that bugs me the most about the American political system (along with gerrymandering and campaign financing) is that convicted felons aren't allowed to vote, even after they've served their sentence. I find that genuinely shocking. There should be no way that the country can make somebody disappear as a political being, not after they've paid their penalty. It's just wrong.

Call me naive, but I believe that "paying your debt to society" means just that. You transgress, you pay the price, and you start out again at the end of it with all the rights and privileges of a free citizen. Marking someone as damaged goods for the rest of their lives reduces the chances of rehabilitation and reintergration, and that costs all of us.

165 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:22:20am

re: #164 Kruk

That is another heritage of our puritanical fundamentalist heritage: God might forgive you for your transgressions, but we wont!

166 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:22:30am

re: #156 ralphieboy

Can't use binary without a zero...

Sure you can.

1111111

167 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:23:01am

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sure you can.

1111111


then you have monary

168 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:23:09am

re: #163 goddamnedfrank

Pine. Or Pike. One of those "Pi_e" streets.

169 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:11am

re: #164 Kruk

In Florida, you get all your rights restored if you're a convicted felon, except owning a firearm. And it seems every job needs a background check for the most part. And some won't even bother talking to you if you are a felon, although some employers only go back 5, 7 or 10 years.

171 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:29:16am

re: #168 laZardo

Pine. Or Pike. One of those "Pi_e" streets.

Downtown, Capitol Hill, or Madrona?

I used to live at Eastlake and Harrison, right next to St. Spiridon's orthodox cathedral.

172 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:30:20am

re: #171 goddamnedfrank

Near the state convention center.

173 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:39:29am

Hurf. Gonna sleep and try to neutralize jetlag. Catch yall in the moarning.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:40:59am

"The stalker blog lies about Breivik's manifesto's mentions of LGF/Charles Johnson"

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

175 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:41:06am

SCIENCE!!!!
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

176 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:41:23am

re: #172 laZardo

Near the state convention center.

Cool, Bauhaus Coffee is just up the street from you @ 301 East Pine, just on the other side of I-5, good place to chill out, read, or just sit and stare at the city.

177 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:49:10am

Geyser!!

178 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:50:06am

re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar


This is going to get picked apart by budget-busters as a classic waste of taxpayer dollars.

179 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:51:01am

re: #175 Cannadian Club Akbar

SCIENCE!!!
[Link: www.azcentral.com...]

I went to the UW, home of the original BAR Lab:

The BARLAB is famous for its expectancy studies, where students who receive placebo, non-alcoholic drinks are monitored closely to observe the changes in their behavior. People who believe they are receiving alcohol can become relaxed and will criticize people more or exhibit other strong placebo effects, Marlatt said.

“After they see the effects, they start drinking less,” Marlatt said. “They begin to realize there is more than just alcohol going on here. The setting can have an effect. After people realize that, they realize they don’t need to consume as much.”

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:52:37am
sheik yer'mami said...

Oslo-Attentäter liebte die Filme des Palästinenser-Freundes und Israel-Hassers Lars von Trier

Translation: Oslo assassin loved the flicks of Pali-friend & Israel hater Lars von Trier:

[...]

Besides, the "little island paradise" is not a place for 'children', but a commie indoctrination camp:

Strange ‘paradise’. A socialist summer camp i(ndoctrination centre) for ‘community organizers’. Spending time at a hate Israel, Marxist labour camp doesn’t sound like ’paradise’ to me. Am I the only one that thinks a Government (Party indoctrination) summer camp for kids is creepy?

Please note that the media blasted the blood splattered bodies from the Oslo explosions (white Norwegians) all around the world the same day, front page news.No holding back.

However, you don't get any close-us whatsoever from the Island.

But take a look at the video, just to see what kind of people these 'children' are.

[...]

181 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:20am

re: #180 Sergey Romanov


so-called "children. anyone tainted by marxism is better off dead

182 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:49am

re: #179 goddamnedfrank

I could never be a part of that kind of study because of what I drink when I drink. But younger people drink booze with plenty of mixer, I suppose.

183 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:04:06am

re: #181 ralphieboy

I'm sure he does think exactly that. BTW, he is another banned LGF commenter.

184 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:11am

re: #183 Sergey Romanov

I'm sure he does think exactly that. BTW, he is another banned LGF commenter.


So did Ronald Reagan. I am looking for the quote from his speech, but what he said was basically that our children would be better off dead than growing up under godless communism.

185 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:53am

re: #184 ralphieboy

Yeah, I know. Reagan was a vile piece of shit.

186 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:07:25am

re: #185 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, I know. Reagan was a vile piece of shit.

He was moderate by modern conservative standards...

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:08:02am

re: #186 ralphieboy

That too. Although at least Bush did not sponsor the death squads.

188 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:18:53am

Morning, all

189 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:22:51am

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

HE SHOT FUCKING KIDS!

The fucking argument stops right fucking there.

190 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:22:53am

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

That too. Although at least Bush did not sponsor the death squads.

Bush was also way too moderate for modern conservatives...

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:23:24am

re: #189 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There are new Breiviks in the making.

192 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:25:46am

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

There are new Breiviks in the making.


That is what scares me. There are lotsa dateless wonders like this guy out there waiting for something to set them off.

I advocate institution the Guaranteed Annual Lay. As long as fellows like this know that they stand a chance of getting somewhere with a woman at least once a year, it would encourage them to direct their energies elsewhere.

193 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:27:38am

re: #192 ralphieboy

It doesn't seem to have been a problem for him.

194 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:28:58am

re: #193 Sergey Romanov

It doesn't seem to have been a problem for him.

You mean he was teh gey? You see!!! We need DOMA and DADT or we will be overrun by gay mass murderers!!!

195 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:23am

Did I mention that Hitler was gay?

196 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:29am

re: #194 ralphieboy

No, apparently he didn't have a problem getting laid.

197 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:58am

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

There are new Breiviks in the making.

There are two huge dangers from this.

1. New Breiviks. Guys who will actually use his instruction manual as inspiration or will have been inspired by the event itself.

2. New Breiviks: Guys who are inspired from the same sources he was, like Gates of Vienna, Geert Wilders, and the rest of the insane right-wing that even now in this moment cannot see how their language and rhetoric was a clear call for this to happen.


#2 I think is the most dangerous. If you look at all those right-wing blogs, none of them are saying "You know, we do equate being a liberal who's pro-immigration to being a traitor. We do claim that the moment to act is now, or Europe will be lost forever. We do claim that the ordinary political process is broken and won't be sufficient. So the logical outcome is that someone who believes us will actually resort to violence and terrorism."

They're all attempting to deflect, to say "Well, we didn't call for violence, so it couldn't have come from us." They're not taking any responsibility.

Really, they're caught on the horns of dilemma; if they're serious in what they say, that this is a unique moment in history where Islam is poised to overrun Europe, that liberals are enabling that, and that things will be relentlessly horrible for Europeans afterwards, then they should be applauding this guy's actions, or at least only deploring that he killed teenagers. Because if things are as bad as they claim that they are, as desperate, then this is a logical outcome.

If this isn't a logical outcome, if attempting to spread the word of the danger of Muslim aggression isn't of such paramount importance, if it's not actually worth killing over, if things can be handled just fine through the ordinary political process, then what have they been yammering about?

198 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:30:11am

Well, the Swedish girl wouldn't, but the Norwegian would...

199 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:30:22am

re: #193 Sergey Romanov

It doesn't seem to have been a problem for him.

Was he a ladies man? I haven't seen (or looked) for anything in these regards. He was good looking, apparently somewhat rich and smart.

200 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:31:25am

I read in his comments that he was a bit of a misogynist, but there are lotsa women who seem to go for that type...

201 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:32:37am

re: #197 Obdicut

To support my point, here's a quote from Fjordman:


In many cases you can compromise, but in others you cannot. If somebody tries to poison you then you have to resist. It doesn’t matter in the long run whether those who do this do so because they deliberately want to kill you or because they are fools who accidentally kill you while intending to do something noble. The bottom line is: You die. You cannot be slightly dead, just like you cannot be slightly pregnant. If the Leftists and the Globalists have their way then our civilization will die, plain and simple. That’s why this ongoing struggle is likely to get ugly, because no compromise is possible. Since similar ideological struggles are taking place throughout the Western world, this situation could trigger a pan-Western Civil War.

That he puts it in the passive 'get ugly' doesn't really rescue this from being a clear call to action. There's no compromise-- which is the political solution. So what is left?

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:33:29am

re: #199 Cannadian Club Akbar

He elaborates on this a bit in his diary. I don't get the feeling that was the problem. The problem was his ideology, not personal problems.

203 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:35:07am

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

He elaborates on this a bit in his diary. I don't get the feeling that was the problem. The problem was his ideology, not personal problems.

I tried to load his manifesto yesterday, but couldn't get it to open. I was gonna link it on my FB along with your page from here.

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:35:55am

re: #203 Cannadian Club Akbar

Better not link to that terror manual.

205 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:38:32am

re: #202 Sergey Romanov

He elaborates on this a bit in his diary. I don't get the feeling that was the problem. The problem was his ideology, not personal problems.

His ideology was a vehicle for his psychosis.

If ideology alone was the driving force, then right wing ideology has been remarkably ineffective, given the pervasiveness of that ideology.

People espouse all kinds of ideology without engaging in homicidal behavior. Ideology can only trigger a dysfunction that exists.

206 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:38:39am

re: #204 Sergey Romanov

Better not link to that terror manual.

Nobody on my FB would read it anyway. If there isn't a pic of a kitten or a puppy, they don't bother. FB is such a waste of time, for the most part.

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:39:20am

re: #201 Obdicut

I only hope that 1500 pages will scare away most of the potential contingent. And his explanations of how to make this or that require some prior knowledge. Still, a smart one can get through it, and they already see that such tactics are "successful", so yeah, it's scary.

208 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:41:19am

Another thing is his obsession with "Knights Templar" and masons. Far right usually doesn't like this stuff.

209 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:42:38am

re: #208 Sergey Romanov

Another thing is his obsession with "Knights Templar" and masons. Far right usually doesn't like this stuff.

I've seen stuff on masons from kook fringe sites. AJ and such.

210 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:43:40am

re: #209 Cannadian Club Akbar

Yeah, they believe in masonic/KT anti-Western conspiracies, while AB, himself a freemason, writes about these matters only positively.

211 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:00am

This guy had sanity in the rear view mirror for a long time

212 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:38am

re: #208 Sergey Romanov

Another thing is his obsession with "Knights Templar" and masons. Far right usually doesn't like this stuff.

Well, I've seen imagery similar to it flickering up, about how the anti-Jihadists are like knights or crusaders. Even "Gates of Vienna" is such a callback.

If you mean the semi-mystical, esoteric order nature of it, then yeah, absolutely.

213 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:54am

This sounds like a similar story with Loughner - he was a maniac and simply responded to any sort of ideology or philosophy that appealed to his warped world-view.

Makes it nearly impossible to pin a label on him, and makes it even easier for those who associate violence, right or left-wing, to distance themselves from his actions.

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:46:33am

re: #213 ralphieboy

I don't think it's similar to Loughner at all. Loughner did not have any coherent ideology, he couldn't tie 2 words together, although he does seem to have been influences by Libertariannish views.

AB has a whole, complete, rationalized worldview.

215 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:47:08am

Breivik is being called a Christian fundamentalist even though he was a Freemason and supporter of such vile Zionist Islamophobes as Pam Geller and Richard Pipes.

This is a line from an article on AJ's site. Dated today. Apparently the author thinks it is a Mossad plot.

216 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:47:50am

re: #214 Sergey Romanov

I don't think it's similar to Loughner at all. Loughner did not have any coherent ideology, he couldn't tie 2 words together, although he does seem to have been influences by Libertariannish views.

AB has a whole, complete, rationalized worldview.

Ah, but Loughner's ideology was coherent to himself.

This guy was more functional and coherent, but just as dysfunctional.

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:22am

re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar

Like I immediately said to Obdi, it will be blamed on Jews, and it has been.

218 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:42am

re: #213 ralphieboy

This sounds like a similar story with Loughner - he was a maniac and simply responded to any sort of ideology or philosophy that appealed to his warped world-view.

Makes it nearly impossible to pin a label on him, and makes it even easier for those who associate violence, right or left-wing, to distance themselves from his actions.

Not in the least. Loughner's writing is incoherent, his logic pitiful.

This guy reached the logical conclusion of the arguments made by the anti-Jihadi right wing. If this is a struggle of civilizations, if liberals are traitors, if there is no compromise, then what he did makes perfect sense.

And that is what these assholes have been claiming, for years, now.

219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:49:57am

re: #195 ralphieboy

Did I mention that Hitler was gay?

And a vegetarian.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:50:26am

re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And PETA member.

221 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:50:41am

re: #218 Obdicut

Not in the least. Loughner's writing is incoherent, his logic pitiful.

This guy reached the logical conclusion of the arguments made by the anti-Jihadi right wing. If this is a struggle of civilizations, if liberals are traitors, if there is no compromise, then what he did makes perfect sense.

And that is what these assholes have been claiming, for years, now.

Coherence is not a measure of sanity. Never has been.

There are very dysfunctional people who are most reasonable and coherent.

222 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:51:01am

re: #216 researchok

Ah, but Loughner's ideology was coherent to himself.

This guy was more functional and coherent, but just as dysfunctional.

That's pretty facile statement. First of all, you have no idea if Loughner's ideology was consistent to himself, whether or not he actually operated with a large framework or just stumbled from belief to belief.

Second of all, calling this guy dysfunctional is just-- yeah, well, duh. Of course he's dysfunctional. So is a guy who beats his wife. That's not really the point.

This guy is like Timothy McVeigh or like an Islamic terrorist. He is not like Loughner.

223 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:52:18am

re: #222 Obdicut

Me thinks Loughner's ideology depended on the last CD he listened to.

224 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:52:43am

re: #221 researchok

Coherence is not a measure of sanity. Never has been.

There are very dysfunctional people who are most reasonable and coherent.

There are various pathologies that can be diagnosed. Incoherence is certainly part of some of those pathologies. So yes, it is 'a' measure of sanity. It's not the only one.

Whether this guy was insane or not is a subjective opinion based on where you're drawing the line between sanity and evil. But he was nothing at all like Loughner.

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:52:53am

re: #222 Obdicut

His fellow ideologues now say - but there is no connection between what he did and what he espoused! And yet what he did was just the logical consequence of their ideology, as you've shown.

226 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:54:51am

I meant "similar" to Loughner only in the sense that one cannot simply align either of them with a particular existing ideology or political party. They were both little worlds unto themselves.

And being deranged, they did not have to be consistent or coherent to anyone but themselves.

227 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:55:06am

re: #222 Obdicut

That's pretty facile statement. First of all, you have no idea if Loughner's ideology was consistent to himself, whether or not he actually operated with a large framework or just stumbled from belief to belief.

Second of all, calling this guy dysfunctional is just-- yeah, well, duh. Of course he's dysfunctional. So is a guy who beats his wife. That's not really the point.

This guy is like Timothy McVeigh or like an Islamic terrorist. He is not like Loughner.

From the outside, the differences between Loughner and this guy are apparent.

Loughner believed his actions were quite reasonable. in the same way this guy did.

The only possible distinction is Loughner was on meds- though there is no telling if the Oslo killer were under care, meds might have been prescribed for him.

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:56:31am

re: #226 ralphieboy

I think he can be very much aligned to a very particular strain of thought.

229 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:56:58am

re: #225 Sergey Romanov

His fellow ideologues now say - but there is no connection between what he did and what he espoused! And yet what he did was just the logical consequence of their ideology, as you've shown.

Does that mean Marx, et, al, were responsible for Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao, etc and the millions of deaths they caused?

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:57:22am

Norm: My doctor tried to scare me out of smoking. My doc, he showed me a picture of a smokers lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting. Then he showed me a picture of a healthy guys lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting.

231 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:59:05am

re: #228 Sergey Romanov

I think he can be very much aligned to a very particular strain of thought.


Let me re-phrase that, as I generally agree with you: those with whom his strain of thought can be aligned have lots of rhetorical tools available to deny any connection.

I just remember all the attempts to paint Loughner as a leftist because he smoked pot (which only leftists do) and had an interest in a number of works associated with leftism.

One can find all sorts of arguments to apply to Brevik - especially that he was a "big fan of LGF"...

232 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:59:50am

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Norm: My doctor tried to scare me out of smoking. My doc, he showed me a picture of a smokers lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting. Then he showed me a picture of a healthy guys lung. Ahh! It was gross and disgusting.


organs are disgusting. best to take them out and replace them with a system of mechanical pumps and filters.

233 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:00:04am

re: #227 researchok

From the outside, the differences between Loughner and this guy are apparent.

Yeah. That's where we are.

Loughner believed his actions were quite reasonable. in the same way this guy did.

Then it seems to me useless to assert that, because there's a very, very small minority of people who don't believe that their actions are reasonable.

The only possible distinction is Loughner was on meds- though there is no telling if the Oslo killer were under care, meds might have been prescribed for him.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous to me. That's the only distinction between Loughner, whose views are so nuts as to be incomprehensible to others, and this guy, whose views are nearly identical to thousands of right-wing anti-Muslim bloggers?

Isn't that a rather big distinction?

234 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:00:56am

re: #231 ralphieboy

Loughner was also thought to be a TPer right out of the gate, including a thread here.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:01:45am

re: #229 researchok
Marx - only in an indirect way, since the way of violence is not inherent in what they taught. Lenin, on the other hand, is directly responsible.

The "counter-Jihad" complex we have now has no logical consequences but abrogation of civil rights of whole groups of people - at the minimum.

236 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:05:08am

re: #233 Obdicut

Yeah. That's where we are.

Then it seems to me useless to assert that, because there's a very, very small minority of people who don't believe that their actions are reasonable.

I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous to me. That's the only distinction between Loughner, whose views are so nuts as to be incomprehensible to others, and this guy, whose views are nearly identical to thousands of right-wing anti-Muslim bloggers?

Isn't that a rather big distinction?

No, it is not.

People to this day believe Che was 'reasonable' because they 'understand' his writings- and this was the guy who shot women and children himself. Does his 'reasonableness' somehow make his murders more acceptable?

Castro too, was directly responsible for untold deaths- does the fact his .manifesto' made sense to many in any way mitigate his homicidal tendencies?

There are fall down drunks and there are functional alcoholics.

Different wards, same disease.

237 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:51am

re: #169 Cannadian Club Akbar

In Florida, you get all your rights restored if you're a convicted felon, except owning a firearm. And it seems every job needs a background check for the most part. And some won't even bother talking to you if you are a felon, although some employers only go back 5, 7 or 10 years.


Yep.

A few months back, a close friend had an interview with a "national pest control company." (There probably aren't many of those that reach "national" status, so you can probably figure out who.)

He made it past the first interview and went on a sample "house call" where the company rep told him he asked the right questions. The final step was a simulated sales pitch, where he had to get the "homeowner" to sign one of three contracts. If he did that, he was in. He got one of the contracts signed.

Then came the background check. Twenty years ago, he did a few months in jail for dealing cocaine. (My friend is not Tony Montana here; the amounts we're talking about might have kept Charlie Sheen happy for a night or two.)

Dropped him like the proverbial hot potato.

So, yeah: twenty years of keeping your nose clean (literally!) counts for jack shit in this country.

238 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:28am

re: #230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That was Norm McDonald. Whenever complete asshole murdering rationalizing nutjobs pop up I think about this Norm McDonald story...

There's crazy guys everywhere. I was reading about this guy in the paper. Get this, folks. The guy I was reading about, he killed his whole family because the devil told him to. Do you believe that? What a dork, huh? That was the headline in the paper. It said, "What a Dork!"

Imagine, eh? You kill your whole family just because the devil tells you. Then afterwards you go back and you go, "Yes, Devil. I did as you instructed. I killed my family, slaughtered them as they were sleeping, then I chopped them up and put them in a duffle bag. Here they are in a duffle bag. I'll be burying them tonight in the shallow grave by the side of the railroad track as you have commanded, oh, Lord, host of the hoary neverworld."

You know, then the devil pulls off the mask, "It's me, Bob!"

You go, "Oh, Bob! Jeeze, You got me, Bob. You got me here. Is my face red or what here? I got my family in a duffle bag over here. Well, that's one for you there, Bobby."

Sometimes, you just don't listen to the voices in your head.

239 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:35am

re: #236 researchok

People also believe Reagan and Pinochet were reasonable, though they were also responsible for untold numbers of deaths, incl. women and children.

240 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:08:32am

re: #236 researchok


People to this day believe Che was 'reasonable' because they 'understand' his writings- and this was the guy who shot women and children himself. Does his 'reasonableness' somehow make his murders more acceptable?

Why are you talking about making murders acceptable?

How does that relate?

Castro too, was directly responsible for untold deaths- does the fact his .manifesto' made sense to many in any way mitigate his homicidal tendencies?

Why are you talking about mitigation?

241 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:08:41am

re: #234 Cannadian Club Akbar

Loughner was also thought to be a TPer right out of the gate, including a thread here.

Well, ultimately he turned out to be a Paultard with some added idiosyncratic craziness , so that wasn't too far off the mark.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:09:17am

re: #239 Sergey Romanov

I'm not even talking about Bush and his voluntary Iraq adventure, which cost at least 100000 lives and maybe more. Is Bush dysfunctional?

243 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:09:43am

re: #237 BongCrodny

I'm actually waiting to hear about a job. They asked if I was honest with them (I was) about prior problems. They said it shouldn't be a problem. We'll see.

244 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:10:21am

re: #235 Sergey Romanov

Marx - only in an indirect way, since the way of violence is not inherent in what they taught. Lenin, on the other hand, is directly responsible.

The "counter-Jihad" complex we have now has no logical consequences but abrogation of civil rights of whole groups of people - at the minimum.

I disagree. Everyone is responsible for their own actions.

The vast majority of wingnuts are not voplent.

The vast majority of moonbats are not violent.

The vast majority of Jews, Christians and Muslims are non violent.

Despite extreme ideologies that are found within each of those groups, violence is only acceptable to very few, relatively speaking. Ideologies may trigger a certain response to an already dysfunctional person.

245 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:12:15am

re: #239 Sergey Romanov

People also believe Reagan and Pinochet were reasonable, though they were also responsible for untold numbers of deaths, incl. women and children.

There is a great distinction between Reagan and the others you mentioned.

246 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:13:32am

re: #245 researchok

There is a great distinction between Reagan and the others you mentioned.

Supports the narrative.

247 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:13:46am

re: #242 Sergey Romanov

I'm not even talking about Bush and his voluntary Iraq adventure, which cost at least 100000 lives and maybe more. Is Bush dysfunctional?

Do you want to compare what drove Bush versus what drove Saddam?

248 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:13:48am

re: #237 BongCrodny

and one other quick thing. Your friend needed to be bonded. When you deal with going into other peoples houses, things are more strict.

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:14:14am

re: #244 researchok

Most of the Germans accepting the Nazi ideology weren't violent and didn't want any genocide. But there is an link between the Nazi ideology and genocide.

250 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:06am

re: #247 researchok

Whatever drove Bush seemed reasonable to him, yet resulted in at least 100000 predictable deaths.

251 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:14am

re: #240 Obdicut

Why are you talking about making murders acceptable?

How does that relate?

Why are you talking about mitigation?

Because the subject of ideologies came up. Context.

252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:23am

re: #248 Cannadian Club Akbar

and one other quick thing. Your friend needed to be bonded. When you deal with going into other peoples houses, things are more strict.

You would not believe the checks that I had to go through. I've never been arrested, don't do drugs... after three weeks? Even I was sweating it.

253 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:17am

re: #252 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You would not believe the checks that I had to go through. I've never been arrested, don't do drugs... after three weeks? Even I was sweating it.

I'm pretty sure you were sweating, regardless.
///

254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:19am

re: #250 Sergey Romanov

Show me a President that was not responsible for a whole bunch of deaths.

255 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:28am

re: #251 researchok

Because the subject of ideologies came up. Context.

That doesn't answer my question in the least.

How are the subject of 'ideologies' and the idea of mitigation related?

256 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:17:37am

re: #245 researchok

There is a big distinction between Che and Mao, or between Castro and Stalin. Yet their ideological actions (which seemed reasonable to them) resulted in unnecessary deaths.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:20am

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is a difference between death and unnecessary death.

258 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:40am

re: #249 Sergey Romanov

Most of the Germans accepting the Nazi ideology weren't violent and didn't want any genocide. But there is an link between the Nazi ideology and genocide.

They may have been passive but they accepted the program- even as the violence became apparent and escalated.

That is a huge distinction.

You have people like myself who distanced themselves from an ideology that went too far. I am responsible for my own actions.

259 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:58am

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Show me a President that was not responsible for a whole bunch of deaths.

That's kind of the point, I think. They all have, and we don't consider them all 'dysfunctional'.

There is a huge difference, to me, between total whackjobs like Loughner who's ideology is incoherent and whose grasp on reality is obviously loose, and committed ideological terrorists whose actions are exactly in line with the logical outcome of the arguments they espouse.

The others espouse those same arguments without becoming violent is true, but facile; my point is that this shows the bankruptness of that ideology. Or at least shows that those espousing that ideology should acknowledge that its logical outcome results in quite a lot of death.

260 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:19:39am

re: #258 researchok

The counter-Jihadi violence has now escalated. Time to make choices.

261 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:20:16am

re: #255 Obdicut

That doesn't answer my question in the least.

How are the subject of 'ideologies' and the idea of mitigation related?

Can you point to an example of where you have expressed concern over left wing or progressive ideologies that might fuel violence?

262 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:21:56am

re: #260 Sergey Romanov

The counter-Jihadi violence has now escalated. Time to make choices.

On this we agree.

I find them most repulsive.

263 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:23:15am

re: #260 Sergey Romanov

The counter-Jihadi violence has now escalated. Time to make choices.

You make a good point.

I see the counter jihadi people in the same way I see the pro Palestinian left who espouse and embrace violence and other racist ideologies.

264 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:23:47am

re: #243 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm actually waiting to hear about a job. They asked if I was honest with them (I was) about prior problems. They said it shouldn't be a problem. We'll see.


Good luck. I've been on the couch (after 30 years of working steady) for over a year now, with only sporadic temp jobs during that time. Between unemployment insurance and my "trivia gig," I've managed to carve out a life that's about a third of what I was used to.

I'm know there are folks out there that think being on unemployment is a lot of fun and games, but at least in my case, I'm not having a whole lot of fun right now.

265 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:25:15am

re: #261 researchok

Can you point to an example of where you have expressed concern over left wing or progressive ideologies that might fuel violence?

Can you explain what on earth this has to do with anything?


I have no idea where the anti-circumcision debate falls on the scale, whether that's considered a 'left-wing' issue, but I've certainly talked about how that could lead to violence-- what is going to be done to Jews who attempt to leave San Francisco with their kids? Are they going to be forcibly stopped?

Whenever I talk about AGW, which is a disaster where there is actual culpability, I'm always sure to say that we need to compromise, convince, and lobby, that there is no possible solution through violence, and that the "Earth Firsters" and the rest are idiots in their ideology.

Now, can you explain how the subject of 'ideologies' and the subject of mitigation are related?

You may be making perfect sense to yourself but you seem completely obtuse to me right now.

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:26:49am

re: #262 researchok

Returning to the subject at hand, my point is that people like Stalin or Hitler aren't madmen. They're ruthless, but I doubt they had mental disorders (maybe paranoia, but even that is not certain). It doesn't take a madman to do mass murder. Loughner was a madman in a clinical sense, but I'm not sure about AB.

267 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:28am

re: #260 Sergey Romanov

On 9-11 I was in Charleston, SC on business. By mid-morning I saw a pick up truck with a huge American flag mounted in its bed. Guys in the back of the truck who seriously looked like they were ready to launch a counter-attack against ... well? Anyone.

I remember thinking, "This, as bad as it is; is going to get worse."

268 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:37am

re: #264 BongCrodny

I've been doing temp jobs for 3 years. I'm about to lose my house, but got a letter from my mortgage company Friday saying it's cool to short sell it and save my credit. Pretty fucking cool in my book.

269 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:42am

re: #263 researchok

You make a good point.

I see the counter jihadi people in the same way I see the pro Palestinian left who espouse and embrace violence and other racist ideologies.

That's a good example. People who say the Jews are calculatingly evil oppressors and that Gaza is a concentration camp are rather clearly espousing violence. The camps were freed through war.

But such people aren't insane, and someone who launched an attack on Israel with that belief wouldn't be necessarily insane. He might firmly believe that ideology, just as this asshole firmly believes his ideology.

270 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:28:16am

re: #268 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm sorry that the coolness still involves you losing your house, man, but I'm glad you're not totally screwed. I hope things improve for you.

271 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:30:26am

re: #265 Obdicut

Can you explain what on earth this has to do with anything?

I have no idea where the anti-circumcision debate falls on the scale, whether that's considered a 'left-wing' issue, but I've certainly talked about how that could lead to violence-- what is going to be done to Jews who attempt to leave San Francisco with their kids? Are they going to be forcibly stopped?

Whenever I talk about AGW, which is a disaster where there is actual culpability, I'm always sure to say that we need to compromise, convince, and lobby, that there is no possible solution through violence, and that the "Earth Firsters" and the rest are idiots in their ideology.

Now, can you explain how the subject of 'ideologies' and the subject of mitigation are related?

You may be making perfect sense to yourself but you seem completely obtuse to me right now.

Circumcision?

You think the SF circumcision debate is relevant to this conversation?

We are talking about murders in the name of ideology.

While I'm sure your stance on the circumcision matter is quite appropriate, I'm afraid it isn't germane in discussing murder in the name of ideology.

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:30:57am

Oslo police raids East Oslo.

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:31:04am

re: #270 Obdicut

I'm sorry that the coolness still involves you losing your house, man, but I'm glad you're not totally screwed. I hope things improve for you.

The best way to get over being in debt is....getting into more debt. I'm going in the morning to the local college to sign back up and find out how much in Pell Grants and Stafford Loans I have waiting. I swear, I'm never gonna grow up. Or I will at least put it off until I'm dead.:)

274 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:31:49am

re: #269 Obdicut

That's a good example. People who say the Jews are calculatingly evil oppressors and that Gaza is a concentration camp are rather clearly espousing violence. The camps were freed through war.

But such people aren't insane, and someone who launched an attack on Israel with that belief wouldn't be necessarily insane. He might firmly believe that ideology, just as this asshole firmly believes his ideology.

Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide is acceptable to you?

275 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:32:48am

re: #271 researchok

Circumcision?

You think the SF circumcision debate is relevant to this conversation?

We are talking about murders in the name of ideology.

While I'm sure your stance on the circumcision matter is quite appropriate, I'm afraid it isn't germane in discussing murder in the name of ideology.

First of all, why ignore the rest of that post?

Second of all, I clearly laid out a scenario where the circumcision ban could result in violence. I have no idea why you ignored that.

There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder-- not in the West, anyway. Nothing that's comparable to the anti-Muslim "Europe is doomed" one. So your question also seems to miss that rather significant point by a large margin.

276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:32:56am

re: #272 Sergey Romanov

Looking for some related ass-hats?

277 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:02am

re: #274 researchok

Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide is acceptable to you?

Why the fuck would you say that? What the hell is wrong with you this morning?

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:47am

re: #276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It is related to the case.

279 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:03am

re: #272 Sergey Romanov

Oslo police raids East Oslo.

Reuters says the police have detained "several people" but no story to link to yet.

280 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:06am

re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar

Reuters says the police have detained "several people" but no story to link to yet.

I refreshed the page and the banner is now gone.

281 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:23am

re: #275 Obdicut

First of all, why ignore the rest of that post?

Second of all, I clearly laid out a scenario where the circumcision ban could result in violence. I have no idea why you ignored that.

There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder-- not in the West, anyway. Nothing that's comparable to the anti-Muslim "Europe is doomed" one. So your question also seems to miss that rather significant point by a large margin.

While a circumcision ban may result in violence, It is a most unlikely prospect.

There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder

The support by huge numbers of progressive for Hamas, Jihad, et al, all of whom openly espouse bigotryt and racism and calls to genocide is something I find rather troubling.

Well I do, anyway.

282 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:43am

re: #279 Cannadian Club Akbar

East Oslo is a home for many immigrants. I speculatively wonder if Breivik acted on his claim that he is ready for tactical alliance with Jihadis. On the other hand, there are some closed Norwegian-only "enclaves" in East Oslo.

283 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40:14am

re: #277 Obdicut

Why the fuck would you say that? What the hell is wrong with you this morning?

It was a question.

You reinforced the previouslt stated opinion that

There aren't many progressive ideologies floating around with any large number of adherents that espouse an ideology that ends in murder

I beg to disagree.

284 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40:23am

re: #282 Sergey Romanov

East Oslo is a home for many immigrants. I speculatively wonder if Breivik acted on his claim that he is ready for tactical alliance with Jihadis. On the other hand, there are some closed Norwegian-only "enclaves" in East Oslo.

Jihadis as in middle Eastern or counter-jihadist?

285 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:42:27am

re: #284 Cannadian Club Akbar

Islamists. It would make sense PR-wise to mitigate the blow he made to CJ movement by collaborating with some Islamic extremists to turn the anger on them. But I emphasize that this is only a half-baked thought.

286 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:43:53am

re: #281 researchok

The support by huge numbers of progressive for Hamas, Jihad, et al, all of whom openly espouse bigotryt and racism and calls to genocide is something I find rather troubling.

Well I do, anyway.

Are you just having a memory lapse, or do you seriously not remember me talking at length on any Israel thread about the idiocy of those on the left who misunderstand the situation in Israel and cast Israel as the bad guy?

I also think you're being ridiculous when you say that there are a huge number of progressives that support Hamas. I don't know a single progressive group that does so.

What are you defining as 'progressive'? Progressives are primarily a domestic-policy-defined group, not a foreign policy one.

I don't get the point of any of these questions. We started out with you asserting that Loughner and Anders are the same. I disagreed.

Now you've managed to accuse me of "Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide".

Where is this coming from? Why have you decided that accusing me of bullshit that's not remotely true is a good idea?

287 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:46:13am

re: #283 researchok

So you take the one example that I brought up-- people who are idiots about Israel-- and then claim that I support that position?

How does that work, in your head? That's exactly what I said in my 269, and then you accuse me of supporting that position?

Are you just having trouble reading?

288 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:49:06am

re: #285 Sergey Romanov

Islamists. It would make sense PR-wise to mitigate the blow he made to CJ movement by collaborating with some Islamic extremists to turn the anger on them. But I emphasize that this is only a half-baked thought.


It would actually be quite brilliant of the asshole if he did so. Instantly, all the anti-Islam right-wingers would be crowing that see, they were right, he was used by the Islamacists, this isn't on us, it's on them.

I hope that's not the case.

289 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:49:56am
Now you've managed to accuse me of "Supporting groups that are openly racist, bigoted and espouse violence and calls to genocide".

Where exactly did I do that? Why do you misrepresent what I said?

You said,

That's a good example. People who say the Jews are calculatingly evil oppressors and that Gaza is a concentration camp are rather clearly espousing violence. The camps were freed through war.

But such people aren't insane, and someone who launched an attack on Israel with that belief wouldn't be necessarily insane. He might firmly believe that ideology, just as this asshole firmly believes his ideology.

Supporting (ideologically or financially) the racists, bigots and those calling for genocide isn't simply 'firmly believing in his ideology'.

That is about supporting murder, violence, terror and so on. That is being a party to violence, murder and terror.

And that is just the beginning.

290 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:51:39am

re: #288 Obdicut

For normal people it would hopefully indicate that Jihadis and so-called counter-Jihadis are two sides of one medal.

291 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:51:53am

re: #289 researchok


Supporting (ideologically or financially) the racists, bigots and those calling for genocide isn't simply 'firmly believing in his ideology'.

That is about supporting murder, violence, terror and so on. That is being a party to violence, murder and terror.

Yes. It's both. That's my point: this guy is like an Islamic terrorist.

He is not like Loughner.

292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:52:14am
293 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:54:09am

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Take a minute and read this little "feel good" piece.

Dude's wife is cute.

294 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:54:54am

re: #293 Cannadian Club Akbar


You dog.

/

295 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:55:41am

re: #291 Obdicut

Yes. It's both. That's my point: this guy is like an Islamic terrorist.

He is not like Loughner.

Why is he not like Loughner?

Ideology is ideology, whether it is accepted by one person or 100 million.

The fact remains this guy is not unlike Loughner. They both used ideologies to fuel their psychosis.

296 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:58:21am

re: #295 researchok

The fact remains this guy is not unlike Loughner. They both used ideologies to fuel their psychosis.

Then that observation is so trivial as to be of no use whatsoever in any way.

An Islamic terrorist also uses ideology to fuel psychosis. Which is why the ideologies behind Islamic terror are so dangerous. Which is why the ideology behind the anti-Muslim movement is so dangerous.

297 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:01:20am

re: #296 Obdicut

An Islamic terrorist also uses ideology to fuel psychosis. Which is why the ideologies behind Islamic terror are so dangerous. Which is why the ideology behind the anti-Muslim movement is so dangerous.

On this we agree.

Using ideologies can and will be used by small numbers of dysfunctional people to fuel psychosis. The ideology is irrelevant inasmuch as it only serves as a trigger.

298 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:10am

re: #297 researchok

On this we agree.

Using ideologies can and will be used by small numbers of dysfunctional people to fuel psychosis. The ideology is irrelevant inasmuch as it only serves as a trigger.

The ideology is extremely important, and ignoring that is incredibly baffling to me.

Saying that Jews control the world and are attempting to engineer the death of the white race is an ideology that is far more dangerous than an ideology that says that the human race is damaging the environment. Not just because the latter is true, but because the obvious paths to solution for the former are entirely different than the latter.

Some ideologies, like the anti-Muslim one, or the Jihadi one, claim that only violence can provide a solution, that there is no other path. The anti-Muslim fuckers often cloak this by never reaching the logical end of their thought, but when you talk about deporting millions, it's obvious that will end in violence. Some, like Fjordman, admit that this will lead to civil war.

I have no idea why you're refusing to see this.

299 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:22am
These tragic events have re-emphasised what Europeans have forgotten - that Muslims don't have the monopoly on terrorism.

In the late twentieth century, left-wing groups such as ETA, the IRA and red-brigades were the major European terror organisations. Neverlethelss, in the modern world, nine out of ten terrorists now prefer Islam.

However our opponents will use this attack for all it's worth to exonerate Muslims of everything. We counterjihadists must redouble our efforts to educate the public on how Muslims are insidiously undermining and destroying our civilization in many other ways that don't involve massive attacks, using the information provided here.

GoV comment.

300 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:05:14am

re: #290 Sergey Romanov

For normal people it would hopefully indicate that Jihadis and so-called counter-Jihadis are two sides of one medal.

Excluding Jihadis/CJ how do you see the necessary collective need to preserve the group from attack? (For now I'm avoiding the term 'Darwinian')

301 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:25am

re: #300 researchok

Can you elaborate? The question is not quite clear to me.

302 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:11:02am

Chimp at blogmocracy:

THE MOVIE AND BOOK (or manifesto) ARE FAKE!!!!
here is the letter I am sending to everyone when i discovered this fact.

IF you download the PDF “2083 a european declaration of independence” and scroll to page 14 you see the following text supposedly written by Anders Breivik — “Political correctness now looms over western european like a colossus. It has taken over both political wings, left and right”

NOW, click on this link — [Link: www.lifesitenews.com...]

Scroll to page 6 and you will find the following text —
“Political correctness has now taken over american society LIKE A COLOSSUS . It has taken over both political parties.”

That is just a short outtake, the whole paper was FAKED, I can only assume that this movie is FAKE as well.

This paper which concerns “PC” was not written by Anders.

This so-called manifesto was clearly copied whole cloth by someone with an agenda to paint this killer as an “anti-muslim” extremist.
I suggest a correction be placed in the blog or totally erase the mention as it is clearly FAKE.

Poor chimps still haven't gotten to the fact that Brejvik reprinted his favorite authors.

303 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:12:54am

re: #298 Obdicut

The ideology is extremely important, and ignoring that is incredibly baffling to me.

Saying that Jews control the world and are attempting to engineer the death of the white race is an ideology that is far more dangerous than an ideology that says that the human race is damaging the environment. Not just because the latter is true, but because the obvious paths to solution for the former are entirely different than the latter.

Some ideologies, like the anti-Muslim one, or the Jihadi one, claim that only violence can provide a solution, that there is no other path. The anti-Muslim fuckers often cloak this by never reaching the logical end of their thought, but when you talk about deporting millions, it's obvious that will end in violence. Some, like Fjordman, admit that this will lead to civil war.

I have no idea why you're refusing to see this.

You are looking at ideology through culturally biased eyes.

Any ideology, anywhere, can trigger dysfunctional psychotic behavior.

I am not disagreeing with your remarks re Jihadi/counter Jihadi ideologies. I am disagreeing with your conclusion. Any ideology can trigger dysfunction.

As I noted earlier, the vast majority of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, righties, lefties and everyone in between are non violent. hat sets the lunatics off isn't the ideology or religion.

Something has to be already very broken for that ideology to manifest itself through violence

It is not the ideology

304 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:16:05am

re: #301 Sergey Romanov

Can you elaborate? The question is not quite clear to me.

All groups, tribes, etc have to at times 'circle the wagons' and defend themselves.

How do we realize that today? How, in your opinion, can we reach that consensus? I ask because of your insight into the Holocaust and Nazi Germany.

I don't want to use the Jihadi/CJ scenario as it is too contentious.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:18:01am

re: #304 researchok

Sorry, above my paygrade. Not that I don't have thoughts on this, but this is too general and complex a question to be treated in LGF comments.

306 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:18:57am

re: #303 researchok

You are looking at ideology through culturally biased eyes.

Any ideology, anywhere, can trigger dysfunctional psychotic behavior.

But some trigger it at much higher rates.

The anti-abortion ideology has triggered murder after murder, firebombing, and played a part in McVeigh's action.

The pro-choice ideology has perhaps, maybe, resulted in a murder.

It is not the ideology

Yes, it very clearly is. The Nazi ideology inspired murder, Solidarity did not. The Quaker ideology has yet to produce a terrorist, whereas radical Islam has.

It is completely obvious that ideology is hugely important in inspiring people to commit these acts.

307 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:22:17am

K, folks, nice chatting. bbl

308 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:34:16am

re: #306 Obdicut

But some trigger it at much higher rates.

The anti-abortion ideology has triggered murder after murder, firebombing, and played a part in McVeigh's action.

The pro-choice ideology has perhaps, maybe, resulted in a murder.

Yes, it very clearly is. The Nazi ideology inspired murder, Solidarity did not. The Quaker ideology has yet to produce a terrorist, whereas radical Islam has.

It is completely obvious that ideology is hugely important in inspiring people to commit these acts.


Again, I go back to Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao et al.

Are those ideologies somehow less dangerous than the ones you mentioned?

As for Solidarity, you are right because that ideology did not embrace violence, though that alone does not necessarily bestow blessings.

Gandhi did not espouse violence, either. He also suggested the Jews lie down and be slaughtered. In fact, he was quite the letter writer. Gandhi assured Hitler that he had no doubt of “your bravery or devotion to your fatherland.” He signed the the letter, 'Your Friend, Sd. M. MK Gandhi'.

As for the Quakers, recall their support for anti Israel activities and their outrage at Israel defending herself. They were supporters of of the PLO for decades, even during the most violent times.

They also sat down with Ahmadenijad, who has promised to 'wipe Israel off the map'.

Then there were the Mennonites who expressed their hope Hitler would 'rebuild the Fatherland'.

Pacifism is no guarantee of morality.

309 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:34:30am

According to Reuters, the people detained in North East Oslo have been released.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

310 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:40:12am

re: #308 researchok

Again, I go back to Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao et al.

Are those ideologies somehow less dangerous than the ones you mentioned?

Some of them less, some of them more. That's my point. Some ideologies are more dangerous than others.

As for Solidarity, you are right because that ideology did not embrace violence, though that alone does not necessarily bestow blessings.

Yes. Thank you. Ideology does matter. Thank you for retracting your claim.

Gandhi did not espouse violence, either. He also suggested the Jews lie down and be slaughtered. In fact, he was quite the letter writer. Gandhi assured Hitler that he had no doubt of “your bravery or devotion to your fatherland.” He signed the the letter, 'Your Friend, Sd. M. MK Gandhi'.

And?

As for the Quakers, recall their support for anti Israel activities and their outrage at Israel defending herself. They were supporters of of the PLO for decades, even during the most violent times.

"They" were not anything, since they're not a unified or hierarchical body. As ultra-pacifists, they are completely unreasonable on the subject of Israel.

That is not, however, what we were discussing. Their ideology has not produced terrorists.

Pacifism is no guarantee of morality.

And if I'd made that claim, that'd be great.


Anyway, I'm happy you've conceded that ideology does, in fact, matter.

311 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:41:14am

re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar

According to Reuters, the people detained in North East Oslo have been released.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

The asshole in question is claiming that he worked alone, currently.

I don't know whether to believe him or not, but I'm quite certain he wasn't alone in terms of correspondence. Whether he told anyone what he was planning will become a rather key question.

312 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:44:01am

re: #311 Obdicut

I personally don't think he worked alone and I'm pretty sure he won't throw anyone under the bus. I just wonder if there is indeed more to come.

313 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:46:08am

re: #312 Cannadian Club Akbar

I personally don't think he worked alone and I'm pretty sure he won't throw anyone under the bus. I just wonder if there is indeed more to come.

I really hope not, in terms of more attacks. I am worried about the 'cells' that he mentioned in his manifesto, but I'm hoping that was disinformation.

I think the police and other agencies are going to be going over his computer with a fine tooth comb, and likely the logs from his ISP, as well.

I hope they succeed in following up any contacts he did have.

314 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:50:14am

Well

After a 10 day hiatus, I returned to work last night to be greeted by a laundry list of "chores" that I am just now, some 9 hours later, have a handle on

315 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:17am

re: #313 Obdicut

I haven't been able to read his manifesto. But he wasn't stoopid so I would think any discussions would be in private, not on the computer. But his contacts, or he, could have been sloppy.

316 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:20am

re: #310 Obdicut

Some of them less, some of them more. That's my point. Some ideologies are more dangerous than others.

Yes. Thank you. Ideology does matter. Thank you for retracting your claim.

And?

"They" were not anything, since they're not a unified or hierarchical body. As ultra-pacifists, they are completely unreasonable on the subject of Israel.

That is not, however, what we were discussing. Their ideology has not produced terrorists.

And if I'd made that claim, that'd be great.

Anyway, I'm happy you've conceded that ideology does, in fact, matter.


The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists. True.

They only produce supporters of terrorists who espouse racism, bigotry and calls to genocide.

The never pull the trigger. They just do the paperwork. By the way, Islam has no formal structure, either.

Now, as to the rest of your remarks, I believe you misinterpreted what I said.

There are differences in ideologies of course, but any ideology can serve as a vehicle- even Solidarity. That there were no overt acts directly attributed to Solidarity is irrelevant. Given the right circumstances, some nut job could have committed acts of violence in Solidarity's name.

In the end, any ideology can trigger violence.

Also, I never said you made the claim that pacifism is a guarantee of morality.

317 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:53am

re: #314 sattv4u2

Well

After a 10 day hiatus, I returned to work last night to be greeted by a laundry list of "chores" that I am just now, some 9 hours later, have a handle on

Good. Now mow my friend's lawn.

318 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:23am

re: #316 researchok

The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists

But they have produced a fine line of breakfast options!!
///

319 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:50am

re: #317 Cannadian Club Akbar

Good. Now mow my friend's lawn.

You guys didn't do a good enough job last week!?!?!

320 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:53:41am

re: #316 researchok

The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists. True.

They only produce supporters of terrorists who espouse racism, bigotry and calls to genocide.

But they don't. They support only peaceful protests. They don't support calls for genocide, at all. That's simply a false claim.

The never pull the trigger. They just do the paperwork. By the way, Islam has no formal structure, either.

Yes. Which is why you can't say that "Muslims" support anything.

There are differences in ideologies of course, but any ideology can serve as a vehicle- even Solidarity.

Again:

Some ideologies function much better as vehicles for psychopaths than others.

In the end, any ideology can trigger violence.

Some of them trigger violence much more often than others.

321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:08am

re: #319 sattv4u2

You guys didn't do a good enough job last week!?!?!

It grew back. I wanted to salt the fucking place, but NOOOO!!

322 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:39am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

It grew back. I wanted to salt the fucking place, but NOOO!!

Gravel!

323 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:56:42am

I return briefly to give you this link:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Read it. The academic antisemite Kevin McDonald apologizes for Breivik's murders, calls him a serious political thinker.

I'm going to puke a bit, bbl.

324 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:05:46am

re: #320 Obdicut

The ideology of the Quakers has not produced terrorists. True.

But they don't. They support only peaceful protests. They don't support calls for genocide, at all. That's simply a false claim.

Yes. Which is why you can't say that "Muslims" support anything.

Again:

Some ideologies function much better as vehicles for psychopaths than others.

Some of them trigger violence much more often than others.

Quakers supported the Gaza Flotilla (organized by Turkish Islamists allied with Hamas and Hizbollah)

They also supported Pol Pot, referring to him as "the example of an alternative model of development and social organization." They also supported the Khmer Rouge.

They supported International Solidarity Movement co-founder Ghassan Andoni and nominated him for a Nobel Peace Prize.

Also, as I have noted many times today, one could easily argue leftist ideologies are far more deadly than the CJ movement the lunatic in Oslo aligned himself wth

325 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:06:21am

re: #295 researchok

Why is he not like Loughner?

Ideology is ideology, whether it is accepted by one person or 100 million.

The fact remains this guy is not unlike Loughner. They both used ideologies to fuel their psychosis.

I agree with your overall point but Loughner is schizophrenic. His "ideology" didn't play a role in his psychosis. His ideology could have been based on Hanna-barbera cartoons for all that it mattered.

I have no idea what kind of twisted logic it takes for a man to hunt down and kill kids for over an hour. I wouldn't bet that he's legally sane but he certainly didn't exhibit any schizophrenic tendencies that we know about.

326 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:07:23am

re: #323 Sergey Romanov

I return briefly to give you this link:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Read it. The academic antisemite Kevin McDonald apologizes for Breivik's murders, calls him a serious political thinker.

I'm going to puke a bit, bbl.

Good catch.

Lunatics on Parade.

327 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:08:17am

For the record I believe pacifism is immoral. Quakers, and especially those evil mennonites, are going to burn.//

Happy sunday all!

328 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:08:23am

re: #325 RogueOne

I agree with your overall point but Loughner is schizophrenic. His "ideology" didn't play a role in his psychosis. His ideology could have been based on Hanna-barbera cartoons for all that it mattered.

I have no idea what kind of twisted logic it takes for a man to hunt down and kill kids for over an hour. I wouldn't bet that he's legally sane but he certainly didn't exhibit any schizophrenic tendencies that we know about.

I'm willing to bet that before this is over, this Oslo psycho will be deemed pretty nuts as well.

329 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:09:07am

re: #324 researchok

Since you're refusing to engage with my point, I'm done talking to you. I have no idea whether you're being intentionally or unintentionally obtuse, but I don't care.

It is vitally important to recognize that some ideologies are far more dangerous than others. Anyone who overlooks that or attempts to deny it with academic hand-waving is a fool.

330 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:10:05am

re: #328 researchok

I'm willing to bet that before this is over, this Oslo psycho will be deemed pretty nuts as well.

Agree. But in his mind he doesn't think he's nuts and prolly won't let it be used as a defense, if they have that kind of defense over there.

331 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:11:18am

re: #329 Obdicut

Since you're refusing to engage with my point, I'm done talking to you. I have no idea whether you're being intentionally or unintentionally obtuse, but I don't care.

It is vitally important to recognize that some ideologies are far more dangerous than others. Anyone who overlooks that or attempts to deny it with academic hand-waving is a fool.

That's nice.

Recall though that you refused to engage my points long before- in addition to deliberately mischaracterizing what I said.

332 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:12:38am

re: #328 researchok

I'm willing to bet that before this is over, this Oslo psycho will be deemed pretty nuts as well.

I never could wrap my head around the concept of killing, or even harming, innocents. Killing someone in uniform or in self-defense would just make me want a cigarette, no guilt. I can't understand the mindset it must have taken for this asshole to wander around that island for an hour hunting down teenagers.

333 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:12:43am

re: #330 Cannadian Club Akbar

Agree. But in his mind he doesn't think he's nuts and prolly won't let it be used as a defense, if they have that kind of defense over there.

Loughner thinks he is the picture of mental health as well.

On the surface, what appears to be the only distinction between the two at this point is a diagnosis.

334 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:14:17am

re: #332 RogueOne

I never could wrap my head around the concept of killing, or even harming, innocents. Killing someone in uniform or in self-defense would just make me want a cigarette, no guilt. I can't understand the mindset it must have taken for this asshole to wander around that island for an hour hunting down teenagers.

Some people are broken- in the literal sense. There are some things that just cannot be fixed.

Based on observation from a distance, this is what we are dealing with here.

335 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:18:50am

re: #334 researchok

Some people are broken- in the literal sense. There are some things that just cannot be fixed.

Based on observation from a distance, this is what we are dealing with here.

I sort of hope so. It's easier to deal with if you can put the "crazy" label on someone. I'm getting the impression he was more like McVeigh (actually worse) than anything else. His ideology (anti-islam/immigration) may have played a role but it's a pretty big leap to go from "no immigration of muslims" to "kill the kids of your political enemies" so you might be right.

336 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:24:07am

re: #327 RogueOne

For the record I believe pacifism is immoral. Quakers, and especially those evil mennonites, are going to burn.//

Happy sunday all!

Lets not forget The Church Of Ed Wood!!

[Link: www.edwood.org...]

Sure,, they SAY by looking at his films and his life, we learn to lead happy, positive lives. We strive for acceptance of others and of the self. , but c'mon ,, have you seen his films !?!?!

//

337 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:28:55am

re: #335 RogueOne

I sort of hope so. It's easier to deal with if you can put the "crazy" label on someone. I'm getting the impression he was more like McVeigh (actually worse) than anything else. His ideology (anti-islam/immigration) may have played a role but it's a pretty big leap to go from "no immigration of muslims" to "kill the kids of your political enemies" so you might be right.

Here's a thought.

When it comes to mental health issues, I'm pretty liberal (given my right of center leanings that may surprise some), mostly because I realize just how many people are ill equipped to deal with problems (lots of reasons, another discussion). I don't see most people with real issues as 'professional victims' or malingerers. In other words, I see them as not ever having learned to drive versus being incapable of driving.

What I do resent is the politicization of mental health issues, as in my discussion with Obdi today. He feels some ideologies are more likely to lead to violence than others.

I believe that any ideology can trigger an underlying psychosis.

Right wing lunatic ideology is no more dangerous than left wing lunatic ideology. All a lunatic needs is an excuse, a 'voice' to tell him what he must do.

That voice can come from anywhere.

338 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:31:30am

A&E is running a Criminal Minds marathon today about serial killers they thought were dead. Sweet.

339 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:32:16am

re: #337 researchok

All a lunatic needs is an excuse, a 'voice' to tell him what he must do.

That voice can come from anywhere.

My dog said the same thing last week!

And i'm not even going to tell you what the table lamp had to say about that !

340 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:33:34am

re: #339 sattv4u2

All a lunatic needs is an excuse, a 'voice' to tell him what he must do.

That voice can come from anywhere.

My dog said the same thing last week!

And i'm not even going to tell you what the table lamp had to say about that !

I know your lamp.

Needs a new bulb for sure.

341 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:33am

re: #338 Cannadian Club Akbar

A&E is running a Criminal Minds marathon today about serial killers they thought were dead. Sweet.

Sopranos are on now.

Kind of related to serial killing...

342 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:40am

And people used to laugh at me when I would say, "My radio just said"...I think not.

343 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:35:18am

re: #337 researchok

I agree, I've seen family struggle with my cousin who's schizophrenic. Every episode has gotten increasingly violent. You can't fix crazy.

OTOH, I also agree with Obdi that some ideologies breed bad behavior unrelated to mental issues. There is a difference between a religion that says homosexuals go to hell and another that says we must send them there in a violent way.

344 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:38:21am

re: #343 RogueOne

I agree, I've seen family struggle with my cousin who's schizophrenic. Every episode has gotten increasingly violent. You can't fix crazy.

OTOH, I also agree with Obdi that some ideologies breed bad behavior unrelated to mental issues. There is a difference between a religion that says homosexuals go to hell and another that says we must send them there in a violent way.

Yes, there is a difference and that usually plays itself out culturally.

However, the jump to violence predicated on either belief is pretty long.

The vast majority of Jews, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, capitalists and communists don't make that leap into violent behavior.

Something has to be very dysfunctional fro that to happen.

345 lostlakehiker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:39:14am

re: #16 austin_blue

Dear Mr. Yonts;

Our soldiers coming back from the Middle East will absolutely adore this term. Not only have they had to suffer from these "phenomena", which is what the means in Arabic, but they get the added bonus of reading "Gigantic Haboob Hits Phoenix", which I assure you is comedy gold for a combat trooper. Please start worrying about *real* problems.

Yours truly,
A_B

We've already got "paradise", "sheriff", "sheikh", "jihad", "mosque", "mocha", "intifada", and surely much beside. Give us your poor, your huddled words, yearning to be English.

We won't be needing "blizzard", at the rate things are going. It's shaping up to a real nakhba of a summer.

346 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:39:19am

re: #343 RogueOne

I agree, I've seen family struggle with my cousin who's schizophrenic. Every episode has gotten increasingly violent. You can't fix crazy.

OTOH, I also agree with Obdi that some ideologies breed bad behavior unrelated to mental issues. There is a difference between a religion that says homosexuals go to hell and another that says we must send them there in a violent way.

By the schizophrenia is a particularly heartbreaking illness, very difficult to deal with.

347 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:42:20am

Mornin' sinners.

348 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:44:50am

The only Manifesto you will ever need:

Manifesto No. 1

349 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:44:51am

BBIAB

350 lostlakehiker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:46:13am

re: #335 RogueOne

I sort of hope so. It's easier to deal with if you can put the "crazy" label on someone. I'm getting the impression he was more like McVeigh (actually worse) than anything else. His ideology (anti-islam/immigration) may have played a role but it's a pretty big leap to go from "no immigration of muslims" to "kill the kids of your political enemies" so you might be right.

I was quick to conclude that Loughner was certifiably insane. But my first impression this time around fits in with yours. Some people aren't insane in the sense that they hear voices and talk funny. They're just, for lack of a more clinical word, evil.

This second type thinks about what it reads, draws cruel conclusions, and then acts without compunction or restraint. Doctrines that call, either directly or by implication, for the killing of [fill the blanks], are more likely to be a contributing factor to mass murder events of this sort, than doctrines of a more Quakerish bent.

351 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:46:27am

re: #347 darthstar

Mornin' sinners.

Well, someone needs a mirror.

352 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:20am

re: #346 researchok

By the schizophrenia is a particularly heartbreaking illness, very difficult to deal with.

He was a good-looking, smart young man with a seemingly bright future. It kicked in during his late teens. He's been in and out of a variety of state institutions. After dealing with it for 20 years his sisters have had enough. He's in another institution now and no where to go when he gets out.

353 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:45am

re: #342 Cannadian Club Akbar

And people used to laugh at me when I would say, "My radio just said"...I think not.


My talking lamp can beat up your talking radio!

354 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:48:54am

re: #229 researchok

Does that mean Marx, et, al, were responsible for Castro, Che, Stalin, Mao, etc and the millions of deaths they caused?

Are the mullah's who declare jihad in their fatwas responsible for the deaths they cause?

355 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:14am

re: #353 sattv4u2

My talking lamp can beat up your talking radio!

Edison vs. Tesla?

356 lawhawk  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:30am

re: #345 lostlakehiker

You forgot that Phoenix is a mecca for heat-lovers, with many homes built out of adobe. So many people try to enjoy better living through chemistry and algebra. Here in the US we rely on the arsenal of democracy, which includes admirals and magazines.

But I need to go get my coffee.

357 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:50:49am

re: #356 lawhawk

You forgot that Phoenix is a mecca for heat-lovers, with many homes built out of adobe. So many people try to enjoy better living through chemistry and algebra. Here in the US we rely on the arsenal of democracy, which includes admirals and magazines.

But I need to go get my coffee.

cream and sugar?

358 lawhawk  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:51:06am

re: #347 darthstar

What are you talking about... I'm a Saint.

359 lawhawk  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:52:29am

re: #357 sattv4u2

A hit of cream, no sugar. /sorry, I'm not Mr. Wolf.

360 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:53:55am

re: #359 lawhawk

A hit of cream, no sugar. /sorry, I'm not Mr. Wolf.

Just the way I take it

361 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:54:07am

re: #359 lawhawk

A hit of cream, no sugar. /sorry, I'm not Mr. Wolf.

Heh.

362 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:57:10am

re: #351 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, someone needs a mirror.

Touche, man.

363 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:13am

Some new info about ABBs insane manifesto: He plagiarized the Una-bomber: [Link: translate.google.com...]

364 lawhawk  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:41am

China high speed rail accident kills more than 30, and how does the Chinese government investigate the incident? It is burying the evidence.

They're taking the damaged railcars, and instead of systematically examining the damaged cars to see how they were damaged, whether there were defects, or anything that can be learned to make them safer, they're simply carting them off and burying them within hours of the accident.

China has been spending billions on high speed rail and other infrastructure, but they're cutting corners and it's affecting safety.

365 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:50am

re: #363 JJ42

Some new info about ABBs insane manifesto: He plagiarized the Una-bomber: [Link: translate.google.com...]

Sick Minds think Alike!

366 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:01:12am

re: #354 kirkspencer

Are the mullah's who declare jihad in their fatwas responsible for the deaths they cause?

I get all my orders from the Teletubbies.

367 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:03:21am

re: #363 JJ42

Some new info about ABBs insane manifesto: He plagiarized the Una-bomber: [Link: translate.google.com...]

Let's not abbreviate the asshole to "ABB" - call him by his last name. ABB has a positive connotation...and I'd like to keep it that way.

368 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:03:23am

There was good news this week, Beavis and Butthead are coming back:

[Link: thecelebritycafe.com...]

Life is about to get a lot better!

369 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:04:48am

re: #368 RogueOne

There was good news this week, Beavis and Butthead are coming back:

[Link: thecelebritycafe.com...]

[Video]Life is about to get a lot better!

Great. Now I have to start smoking pot again.

370 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:45am

re: #367 darthstar

Someone spent to much time in the south, eh?
/

371 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:10:59am

re: #370 Cannadian Club Akbar

Someone spent to much time in the south, eh?
/

For a short time, I had an apt in South Boston, does that count??

372 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:11:27am

The video link in this story has been removed by YouTube.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

373 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:12:16am

re: #370 Cannadian Club Akbar

Someone spent to much time in the south, eh?
/

A week was good. I'm already recovering from the cholesterol overload.

374 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:13:25am

re: #372 Cannadian Club Akbar

The video link in this story has been removed by YouTube.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

A story on Al-jazeera shows some still shots of the video. Pretty disturbing.

375 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:14:16am

re: #374 RogueOne

A story on Al-jazeera shows some still shots of the video. Pretty disturbing.

I saw some stills from the crime scene. Can't remember where I found them.

376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:16:09am

re: #371 sattv4u2

For a short time, I had an apt in South Boston, does that count??

There's a South Boston, VA (I'm just sayin).

When Dan Quayle came through Roanoke on the campaign; he made a "joke" that the closet Ducaca had ever been to the South was "South Boston".

The whole crowed went, "Yeah!... Wait! ...What?"

377 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:16:56am

Here is the Al-jazeera coverage of the manifesto:

Anders Behring Breivik: Inside Norway Bomber's 'Manifesto'

378 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:17:57am

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw some stills from the crime scene. Can't remember where I found them.

Here. 2 pics. Victims blurred out.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

379 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:19:28am

re: #376 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There's a South Boston, VA (I'm just sayin).

When Dan Quayle came through Roanoke on the campaign; he made a "joke" that the closet Ducaca had ever been to the South was "South Boston".

The whole crowed went, "Yeah!... Wait! ...What?"

Was thinking that when I typed mine! I've actually been through there, going from Greensboro NC to Appomattox

380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:19:53am

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not gonna look.

I'm still damaged from looking at the pics from Jonestown.

I don't look at 911 pics either.

I'd still like to see Osama with a cap popped in his ass though.

381 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:15am

re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw some stills from the crime scene. Can't remember where I found them.

My interest in seeing pictures from scenes like this has seriously waned in recent years. I understand the importance of their being available, but I don't bother looking for them like I used to. I think it's the use of photos by some people to argue a political point (All those people are bad, see?) or simply justify their own prejudices...I now try to step back for a few days and let the emotional shit filter through before jumping into the fray.

In this case, it's pretty straight forward. A member of a racist hate group made a political statement. Give him his 21 years max sentence in Norway, and we'll revisit making the fucker miserable in 2032.

382 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:52am

re: #354 kirkspencer

Are the mullah's who declare jihad in their fatwas responsible for the deaths they cause?

I'd say yes, partially. If someone sends out that kind of message , they know that somebody out there will act on it. It's also a sneaky tactic to put out veiled threats that they know someone will understand, and act upon. Like this

383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:23:18am

re: #381 darthstar

Give him his 21 years max sentence in Norway, and we'll revisit making the fucker miserable in 2032.

I'll bet you he'll never breathe free air again. There have got to be some sentencing things over there that will put his ass under the prison.

Mebbe they could do 21 years per offense? That lets him out in 2100 years or so?

384 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:04am

re: #380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #381 darthstar

I get both of your points.

385 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:10am

re: #380 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not gonna look.

I'm still damaged from looking at the pics from Jonestown.

I don't look at 911 pics either.

I'd still like to see Osama with a cap popped in his ass though.

I always though it would be great, that if he was captured alive and taken back to the states, if we built a replica of one of the Twin Towers out in the desert somewhere, tied him to a flagpole on the roof (flying the American Flag, of course) and we had a remote controlled 747 fly by closer and closer each time, till ,,,,,,,

386 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:23am

re: #378 Cannadian Club Akbar

Here. 2 pics. Victims blurred out.
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Those are 2 of the still Al-jazeera showed, without the blurring. There isn't any gore but seeing him standing there with that big of a group of bodies on the ground is disturbing.

387 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:25:26am

re: #379 sattv4u2

Was at a house in South Boston, VA and called the family "Southies". They... uh... didn't get it.

388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:25:51am

re: #385 sattv4u2

But I'm not bitter!

389 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:27:55am

re: #386 RogueOne

Those are 2 of the still Al-jazeera showed, without the blurring. There isn't any gore but seeing him standing there with that big of a group of bodies on the ground is disturbing.

Serial killers and mass murderers have always intrigued me. Not in a nutball way, just in the mind set way.

390 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:00am

re: #367 darthstar

Agreed. Being a LOTR-fan, I'm considering referring to him as "He whose name I will not mention" or similar.

391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:14am

Watching UHF on "In Demand".

392 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:59am

re: #391 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watching UHF on "In Demand".

Uh, you don't need cable to get UHF. Just sayin'.
/

393 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:29:20am

re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar

Uh, you don't need cable to get UHF. Just sayin'.
/

couple a bent coat hangers,,,

394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:29:43am

re: #392 Cannadian Club Akbar

"Spatula City!"

395 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:30:29am

re: #382 JJ42

I'd say yes, partially. If someone sends out that kind of message , they know that somebody out there will act on it. It's also a sneaky tactic to put out veiled threats that they know someone will understand, and act upon. Like this

[Video]

Oh, I agree. That was a (somewhat) sarcastic response to the point I thought (and think) ResearchOK was making.

There is a technique called leaderless resistance or leaderless rebellion. It has several parts, but relevant to this is that you have a 'blameless voice' who guides the cells -- not directly, but through general guidance and rhetoric. If you were military, the blameless voice is giving commander's intent and leaving mission and the remainder of the order to the cells' internal organizations. The connection is obvious, but with care it's not legally accountable.

It's what I've thought of much of the rhetoric of some of the Hard Right for a couple of decades now.

396 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:31:11am

re: #393 sattv4u2

couple a bent coat hangers,,,

re: #394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Spatula City!"

TONIGHT ON THE CW!!! AMERICA'S NEXT TOP MODEL THAT ISN'T ACTUALLY HOT!! AT ALL!!!

397 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:31:15am

re: #394 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Spatula City!"

398 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:33:29am

re: #397 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is actually scary is the fact that I have about 9 spatulas.:(

399 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:35:51am

re: #398 Cannadian Club Akbar

What is actually scary is the fact that I have about 9 spatulas.:(

hoarder!

400 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:37:45am

re: #383 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll bet you he'll never breathe free air again. There have got to be some sentencing things over there that will put his ass under the prison.

Yep, there's a thing called "forvaring" which can be translated to "[in] custody" or "[in] storage". If he gets a "forvaring"-conviction (which he probably will) there's really no upper limit to how long he can be incarcerated. After 21 years, (if I remember correctly) they will evaluate whether he is still a danger to society. If he is, they will keep him in prison five more years. After those five years there will be a new evaluation with the possibility of five new years, and if they want to they can continue this for as long as they want.

401 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:38:44am

re: #395 kirkspencer

Agree!

402 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:38:58am

re: #400 JJ42

After 21 years, (if I remember correctly) they will evaluate whether he is still a danger to society.

I'll volunteer to do that for them right now!!

403 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:42:37am

Have a great day all!

404 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:44:47am

re: #402 sattv4u2

I think pretty much everyone in Norway will demand that this self declared "knight-in-shiny-armor-teenager-killer" will be kept in prison for life. Or as "Sauron's mouth" in LOTR puts it: "Until he is broken and changed"

405 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:00am

re: #403 ggt

Have a great day all!

Great,,, now the pressure is on me to do that!!
/

406 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:02am

re: #402 sattv4u2

After 21 years, (if I remember correctly) they will evaluate whether he is still a danger to society.

I'll volunteer to do that for them right now!!

I wonder if he'll be put in General Population if they have it. I also wonder if someone in General Population had a family member murdered by the Ahole.

407 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:35am

In 2009 Norway had 29 murders total. They do have secure prisons where they're locked down 23 out of 24 hours a day and I would guess that's where he'll go for good. You can't rehab 90 murders out of a guy.

408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:50:54am

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

It grew back. I wanted to salt the fucking place, but NOOO!!

Pave it and paint it green.

409 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:51:40am

re: #408 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pave it and paint it green.

And put up a net?

410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:52:46am

re: #400 JJ42

So, between five year hearings, is there at least someone in his cell 24/7 poking him with stick?

(not a prison rape, joke... I mean a stick)

411 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:11am

This Breivik guy is terrible and all, but he is in custody. Any word on what that other hostage taker--Bonner, Bohnr, Boehner it is--Boehner's been up to the last 24 hours? Or is he still a powerless figurehead pretending to be the leader of his party?

412 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:49am

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, between five year hearings, is there at least someone in his cell 24/7 poking him with stick?

(not a prison rape, joke... I mean a stick)

We'll send a house elf to torment him...they like that.

413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:50am

re: #409 Cannadian Club Akbar

And put up a net?

Absolutely not. That includes going outside. Fuck outside.

Outside is stupid.

414 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:54:35am

re: #411 darthstar

This Breivik guy is terrible and all, but he is in custody. Any word on what that other hostage taker--Bonner, Bohnr, Boehner it is--Boehner's been up to the last 24 hours? Or is he still a powerless figurehead pretending to be the leader of his party?

[Link: www.politico.com...]

415 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:55:23am

re: #406 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not sure. I'm (luckily) not familiar with the inside of the prison system. I suspect that 99% of the inmates will hate him. The foreigners will hate him for obvious reasons, and the "ethnic Norwegians" (including classic neo nazis) will hate him because he basically killed his own people, not to mention that most of them were just kids. Nobody likes a child killer.

416 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:58:52am

Here's a nicer story:

George the Great Dane is 7ft long, weighs 18st and is the world's biggest dog... but he's terrified of chihuahuas

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

I'm not sure of the conversion rate but I think 18 stones= 1482lbs give/take 1400lbs

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:24am

re: #415 JJ42

Certain hardcore fascists have ways of diffusing this enmity with foreigners in prison, I have a couple of prominent Russian Nazis in mind.

418 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:52am

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Absolutely not. That includes going outside. Fuck outside.

Outside is stupid.

Outside is hot..I'm not going out today..It has been something like 30 days straight of 100+ heat in Oklahoma.. The all time record is 50 days...

419 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:53am

re: #346 researchok

In case anyone is interested in this kind of stuff, here's an interesting (and LONG) lecture on the topic of schizophrenia by Stanford psych professor Robert Sapolsky. Quite an edifying listen; makes me regret that I didn't go to a halfway decent school.

420 allegro  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:00:23am

re: #416 RogueOne

Here's a nicer story:

George the Great Dane is 7ft long, weighs 18st and is the world's biggest dog... but he's terrified of chihuahuas

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

I'm not sure of the conversion rate but I think 18 stones= 1482lbs give/take 1400lbs

252 pounds

421 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:01:31am

re: #420 allegro

252 pounds

That was within my margin of error. I'm calling that one "correct".

422 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:22am

re: #416 RogueOne

That's one big bag of dogfood right there.

423 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:58am

re: #420 allegro

I have a friend who is barely 5'3". She and her husband have 2 great danes. The smaller of the which outweighs her by at least 50lbs.

424 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:04:05am

re: #421 RogueOne

That was within my margin of error. I'm calling that one "correct".

Are you a Ron Paul polling supervisor?
/

425 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:04:07am

re: #422 darthstar

That's one big bag of dogfood right there.

followed by the need for a Super Pooper Scooper

426 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:05:13am

re: #425 sattv4u2

followed by the need for a Super Pooper Scooper

You'd have to take a hefty bag with you to the dog park.

427 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:05:34am

re: #425 sattv4u2

followed by the need for a Super Pooper Scooper

Image: loader.jpg
FWIW, I HATE this loader. 928's suck and they're easy to flip.

428 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:07:32am

Time to get going...doing a road ride with some friends today. Laters.
When I come back I expect someone will have covered the little protest in Tel-Aviv last night...someone's unhappy with Bibi there besides the Palestinians.

429 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:14am

re: #427 Cannadian Club Akbar

Image: loader.jpg
FWIW, I HATE this loader. 928's suck and they're easy to flip.

After careful calculations,,,, nuffin!!

430 RogueOne  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:09:47am

Have to bail too. I'm still hunting down a presumed electrical problem with the wifes AC. This has turned into a project bad enough that I'm considering giving up and just buying a new car. Enjoy the day folks!

431 allegro  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:02am

re: #423 RogueOne

I have a friend who is barely 5'3". She and her husband have 2 great danes. The smaller of the which outweighs her by at least 50lbs.

I believe it. I'm about that size myself and the neighbor's Dane has knocked me down a couple of times by leaning on me. That's the way he shows affection.

432 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:04am

re: #429 sattv4u2

After careful calculations,,, nuffin!!

The side pictured has the oil filter. Right next to that is the batteries. If you fuck up just right, you can weld the filter wrench to the battery. Or so I hear.

433 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:14:45am

When I moved to Oklahoma I brought tons of clothes.. Many in garbage bags stuck in the 2nd bedroom.. Today the maid is going to do all my laundry.. It will take all day...This will be awesome..Who knows what will show up..Throw back jerseys, Dress shirts..

434 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:17:05am

re: #433 HoosierHoops

When I moved to Oklahoma I brought tons of clothes.. Many in garbage bags stuck in the 2nd bedroom.. Today the maid is going to do all my laundry.. It will take all day...This will be awesome..Who knows what will show up..Throw back jerseys, Dress shirts..

...bloody knife wrapped in a towel, some rope, ether rag,...
/

435 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:27am

re: #434 Cannadian Club Akbar

...bloody knife wrapped in a towel, some rope, ether rag,...
/

LOL
Seriously..There are just bags and bags of laundry...

436 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:21:39am

re: #433 HoosierHoops

When I moved to Oklahoma I brought tons of clothes.. Many in garbage bags stuck in the 2nd bedroom.. Today the maid is going to do all my laundry.. It will take all day...This will be awesome..Who knows what will show up..Throw back jerseys, Dress shirts..

rats,,,, moths ,,,, mold,,,,

437 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:23:13am

re: #436 sattv4u2

rats,,, moths ,,, mold,,,

...beer cans, Taco Bell wrappers, a bow tie....

438 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:23:20am

re: #436 sattv4u2

rats,,, moths ,,, mold,,,

I see you are a glass half empty kind of guy
/

439 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:25:17am

One thing I've stumbled across I'd like to share is a reason - besides shock and terror - he attacked that camp.

Picture, for a moment, somebody killing ten to fifteen percent of the attendees of the Young Republicans National Conference. That's a gathering that only happens every two years. It's attended by, well, /serious/ Young Republicans. Attendees come almost entirely from the people of their generation who will be the major players - some in the public eye, some behind the scenes - for the Republican Party.

Remember that he thinks his plan isn't a couple of year plan. 2085, it's called. Seventy to seventy-five years to completion; a long, hard-fought battle.

He was cutting deeply into the enemy's next generation's critical leadership, crippling (he hoped) their long-term political capability.

440 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:27:44am

re: #439 kirkspencer

I remember the Atlanta Child Murders and people had the thought of the killer, killing the next generation of black people.

441 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:29:20am

re: #416 RogueOne

252 lbs.

Google is your friend.

442 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:29:49am

brb

443 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:29:55am

The easiest answer to a question all week..
Next segment on MTP is: Is Washington Broken?
DUH!

444 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:31:16am

re: #440 Cannadian Club Akbar

I remember the Atlanta Child Murders and people had the thought of the killer, killing the next generation of black people.

Yes, but... I don't know if I was clear enough. This camp wasn't just a 'fun summer camp'. It was in part a political activists' camp for the children of that particular political slice, many of them the children of leaders and major supporters of those leaders.

Not just any socialist liberals (ala the Atlanta child Murders being 'any black children') but a self-selected likely next generation LEADERSHIP of the same.

445 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:38:25am

re: #439 kirkspencer

Yes, there is a sort of twisted logic to it, but the only thing the killer will achieve is to strengthen the resolve of the survivors. Plus increase recruitment to the organization he attacked.

446 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:39:27am

re: #439 kirkspencer

A 2 generation strike. The ultimate decapitation of leadership. Guarantees your enemy falls via failing to exist in any serious capacity. If genocide is the attempted erasure of an ethnic group, what would we call the attempted elimination of an entire political structure? Hm. Politicide?

447 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:45:49am

re: #444 kirkspencer

I misread it. I thought you used young republicans as an example. didn't realize the camp had an actual political purpose.

448 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:47:05am

re: #435 HoosierHoops

LOL
Seriously..There are just bags and bags of laundry...

You don't do your own laundry?
HH - really now.

449 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:47:21am

re: #439 kirkspencer

re: #444 kirkspencer

re: #445 JJ42

re: #446 Rightwingconspirator

Take a couple of steps back. This guy killed children, deliberately, in the course of acting out his fantasy. Full stop.

450 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:49:33am

Police press conference about Utøya shootings right now: Shooting started about 17:30. The swat team arrived on the island by boat 18:25. The killer was apprehended 18:27, with no shots fired. He still possessed a substantial amount of ammunition, but chose to surrender when called out. Judging from his manifesto, he was expecting 'martyrdom' at the hands of the police. I think it's quite impressive that they got him alive. Usually these kinds of killers take their own life rather than surrendering (only to be executed later.) If Norway had the death penalty, I suspect he would have killed him self, or chosen "death by cop"

451 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:50:20am

re: #448 reine.de.tout

You don't do your own laundry?
HH - really now.

I just did the basics since I moved here.. There are just tons of clothes..Winter, Spring, Summer.. I have so many clothes...
Hi Reine!

452 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:51:43am

re: #448 reine.de.tout

You don't do your own laundry?
HH - really now.

If you knew how dirty he gets his undies,, you would burn them instead of washing them yourself!

453 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:17am

re: #449 negativ

Those dots are too close to fail to connect. Yeah, children of the leadership. Horrible on more than the usual number of levels. Oh and this man that claims he worked alone? Well we have a bit more going on. Time will out the facts.

454 What, me worry?  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:44am

re: #439 kirkspencer

One thing I've stumbled across I'd like to share is a reason - besides shock and terror - he attacked that camp.

Picture, for a moment, somebody killing ten to fifteen percent of the attendees of the Young Republicans National Conference. That's a gathering that only happens every two years. It's attended by, well, /serious/ Young Republicans. Attendees come almost entirely from the people of their generation who will be the major players - some in the public eye, some behind the scenes - for the Republican Party.

Remember that he thinks his plan isn't a couple of year plan. 2085, it's called. Seventy to seventy-five years to completion; a long, hard-fought battle.

He was cutting deeply into the enemy's next generation's critical leadership, crippling (he hoped) their long-term political capability.

Or empowering them.

455 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:53:01am

re: #449 negativ

re: #444 kirkspencer

re: #445 JJ42

re: #446 Rightwingconspirator

Take a couple of steps back. This guy killed children, deliberately, in the course of acting out his fantasy. Full stop.

Weird. I'd say taking the couple of steps back is necessary to see it's MORE than just the dead children. He targeted those children for a reason besides his own amusement.

Criminally, the key thing is he killed 97 people, most of whom were between the ages of 13 and 18. If he's alone, that's enough.

If he isn't alone - if there are others who support him, if not actually (the possible second gunman) then in principle - then it's very important to note the reason why he chose that attack.

456 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:53:45am

And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

457 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:40am

re: #450 JJ42

Police press conference about Utøya shootings right now: Shooting started about 17:30. The swat team arrived on the island by boat 18:25. The killer was apprehended 18:27, with no shots fired. He still possessed a substantial amount of ammunition, but chose to surrender when called out. Judging from his manifesto, he was expecting 'martyrdom' at the hands of the police. I think it's quite impressive that they got him alive. Usually these kinds of killers take their own life rather than surrendering (only to be executed later.) If Norway had the death penalty, I suspect he would have killed him self, or chosen "death by cop"

No, read his manifesto. He specifies that the operative should surrender to police if caught and avoid shooting it out. First, because if it goes to trial that's another opportunity to "tell the truth" (push propaganda). Second, because alive always has the chance of escape or rescue letting the operative do more, later.

458 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:55:05am

re: #455 kirkspencer

If he isn't alone - if there are others who support him, if not actually (the possible second gunman) then in principle - then it's very important to note the reason why he chose that attack.

Indeed.

459 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:57:35am

re: #453 Rightwingconspirator

Reuters had a story earlier that said some people were being questioned but were released. re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar

According to Reuters, the people detained in North East Oslo have been released.
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

460 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:59:50am

re: #447 Cannadian Club Akbar

I misread it. I thought you used young republicans as an example. didn't realize the camp had an actual political purpose.

Yeah. I used the Young Republican gathering as a closest similar sort of gathering, to show the consequences.

461 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:00am

Sup?

462 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:58am

re: #461 Varek Raith

Sup?

And where the fuck have you been?

463 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:03:47am

re: #462 Cannadian Club Akbar

And where the fuck have you been?

Vacation.
:)

464 allegro  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:04:16am

re: #444 kirkspencer

Yes, but... I don't know if I was clear enough. This camp wasn't just a 'fun summer camp'. It was in part a political activists' camp for the children of that particular political slice, many of them the children of leaders and major supporters of those leaders.

My first thought was that this was the way to do maximum damage to the leadership he apparently hates. What is worse than killing their children? Much worse that killing them. It is a statement that they are very, very vulnerable no matter how much protection they might have themselves.

465 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:05:07am

Does anyone else still have trouble editing pages after you post them? The "save changes" button is still off the screen and I can't resize the window enough to access it.

466 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:05:55am

Last night I was looking through Fjordman's (aka Baron Bodissey) "work" and came across this hysterical gem of insanity:

The Coming Crash - Sunday, November 22, 2009 (Cached Link)

Here are some highlights:

• I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism.

• There will be a pan-Western and perhaps international economic and social collapse in the not-too-distant future.

• We need to learn from our enemies, both internal and external...They must be squashed, otherwise we cannot deal rationally and adequately with our external enemies.

• We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway.

• We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references, for instance by making a video dedicated to anti-white verbal and physical violence around the world. We must take steps to ensure our physical safety and regain pride in our heritage.

• The current US President Obama has publicly pledged himself to combat opposition to Islam rather than Islam itself, which means that it is official US policy to spread Islamic law.

• If the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire then the USA is the Diversity Empire, committed to spreading Multiculturalism and genetic Communism around the world, especially to white majority countries.

• The United States will not survive this century. It will be split into several countries according to ethnic, racial and perhaps even ideological lines. There is no such thing as a universal nation. People want to live with their own kind. The only ones who are not allowed to do so are whites, and they are starting to get tired of this double standard.

• Anti-white ideologies are now taught in every Western university and were arguably elevated to national ideology in the USA with the election of Obama.

Notice the similarities?

467 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:06:16am

re: #449 negativ

Yes, and because of that he will most likely never get any support from anybody, including hardcore neo-nazis. In the end he's nothing more than a simple child killer. Just as bad as the islamists he claim to be fighting, and no more morally superior than the school shooters in the US.

It takes a truly twisted mind to dedicate 10 years of your life to planning a mass murder against defenseless kids.

468 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:06:42am

Genetic Communism? WTF is that? LOL

469 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:08:03am

re: #468 Gus 802

Genetic Communism? WTF is that? LOL

An advanced Gay WTF Bomb.

470 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:09:10am

re: #450 JJ42

Police press conference about Utøya shootings right now: Shooting started about 17:30. The swat team arrived on the island by boat 18:25. The killer was apprehended 18:27, with no shots fired. He still possessed a substantial amount of ammunition, but chose to surrender when called out. Judging from his manifesto, he was expecting 'martyrdom' at the hands of the police. I think it's quite impressive that they got him alive. Usually these kinds of killers take their own life rather than surrendering (only to be executed later.) If Norway had the death penalty, I suspect he would have killed him self, or chosen "death by cop"

I think he wanted to live. The notoriety and his perceived relevance will increase. In the end his ego and narcissism is what drove him to do this, and that is what will cause him to want to live.

471 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:10:03am

re: #466 Gus 802

Last night I was looking through Fjordman's (aka Baron Bodissey) "work" and came across this hysterical gem of insanity:

The Coming Crash - Sunday, November 22, 2009 (Cached Link)

Here are some highlights:

Notice the similarities?

Amish?
/

472 Kronocide  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:10:34am

re: #466 Gus 802

Fjordman is nucking futz.

473 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:12:00am

re: #457 kirkspencer

Ok, I stand corrected. I only skimmed his manifesto and my impression was that he considered police officers to be traitors who should be killed. He also said that he expected to get killed or wounded.

474 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:12:56am

re: #466 Gus 802

Last night I was looking through Fjordman's (aka Baron Bodissey) "work" and came across this hysterical gem of insanity:

The Coming Crash - Sunday, November 22, 2009 (Cached Link)

Here are some highlights:

Notice the similarities?

We saw this coming. I wish we had been wrong. Charles showed great wisdom in getting rid of the crazies as soon as he did. THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS NOT MY FRIEND!

475 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:16:04am

re: #472 BigPapa

Fjordman is nucking futz.

Unpossible! //

476 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:16:57am

re: #466 Gus 802

• We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway.

• We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references, for instance by making a video dedicated to anti-white verbal and physical violence around the world. We must take steps to ensure our physical safety and regain pride in our heritage.


Identical.

477 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:18:52am

I think the stalkers are running that tweeting script again on my garden page. Idiots.

478 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:19:30am

re: #473 JJ42

Ok, I stand corrected. I only skimmed his manifesto and my impression was that he considered police officers to be traitors who should be killed. He also said that he expected to get killed or wounded.

Yah, it's confusing. Your part is there, but he's a lousy writer - or cut and paster.

Summarized and simplifying, he is saying:
Target police officers (as an example target) as traitors in the initial attacks. These are risky, and you should realize you might be killed in the process. However, do not prefer death to surrender once the mission is done. Instead surrender so you can do more.

479 JJ42  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:20:26am

A quote that springs to my mind in this situation:

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

(Friedrich Nietzsche)

The killer wanted to fight the 'multicultural marxist monster', but he ended up as the worst child killing monster in Norwegian history.

480 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:20:39am

re: #477 Killgore Trout

I think the stalkers are running that tweeting script again on my garden page. Idiots.

Maybe they're just really big fans of squash. And frogs.

481 What, me worry?  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:20:52am

re: #467 JJ42

Yes, and because of that he will most likely never get any support from anybody, including hardcore neo-nazis. In the end he's nothing more than a simple child killer. Just as bad as the islamists he claim to be fighting, and no more morally superior than the school shooters in the US.

It takes a truly twisted mind to dedicate 10 years of your life to planning a mass murder against defenseless kids.

Well.... time will tell if he is truly only a lone gunman with racist ideology. And for the sake of humanity, I pray this is the case.

But when we see what he's been doing for those 10 years and who he has been listening to it gets more frightening. Geller has been posting that this nut shouldn't be equated to anything she or her racist organization SIOE has been saying, but that's bullshit. In his online manifesto, the SIOE is featured prominently. She and others have emboldened this man. She can run from that all she likes, but there it is. While she rails on and on about Islamophobia she says nothing what TO DO about it other than STOP it, but how do you do that?

Breviak wanted to do that by starting a civil war/world war that would pit Christian against Muslim in a bloody battle. Norway, Europe has to stop that and that's why I say it can embolden them not to succumb to these "new" terrorists.

482 Lidane  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:21:28am

re: #474 Shiplord Kirel

We saw this coming. I wish we had been wrong. Charles showed great wisdom in getting rid of the crazies as soon as he did. THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS NOT MY FRIEND!

I missed all that time at LGF. I didn't get here until right around the time that Charles officially broke with the right. It's interesting to read all these posts from people who have been here longer and who have more context to go on.

483 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:23:02am

Gates of Vienna...
Fjordman Welcomes Our New Readers

Welcome to readers of Dagbladet and Der Spiegel!

The latter publication, however, falsely labels us a “hate blog.” This is not true: we are a love blog; we are lovers of truth.

I will try to respond to the best of my abilities to the rumors that are now spreading. The top rumor to kill, still being circulated in certain quarters by people who should know better, is that I am identical to the shooter.

I am not. Nor have I ever met him.
...
Note from this blog’s owners: Due to the unusual situation in which it has recently found itself, this blog will be closed to comments until further notice.


He still hasn't said anything about his private conversations of emails with the terrorist. GoV doesn't want people posting questions about their relationship with the killer. I suspect they're really shitting pickles about this. Could be big trouble.

484 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:24:32am

re: #481 marjoriemoon

Well... time will tell if he is truly only a lone gunman with racist ideology. And for the sake of humanity, I pray this is the case.

Norway Police Arrest Six Over Terror Attacks
I haven't had time to follow up on this development yet.

485 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:28:46am

Pam Geller refudiates self by parroting the terrorist's rhetoric.....
Murderer's manifesto imagined cautious alliance with Jihadists: “We both share one common goal”

He is responsible for his actions. He and only he. There was no "ideology" here. No mandate for murder, and all the leftists, Islamic apologists and Islamic supremacists and media hounds won't make it so. Watching CNN and BBC coverage about Norway, I found very disturbing to hear the number of times they use the word "Christian." They would never dare refer to religion when it is jihad, and this attack had nothing to do with Christianity. It is outrageous.
486 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:29:16am

re: #483 Killgore Trout

Gates of Vienna...
Fjordman Welcomes Our New Readers


He still hasn't said anything about his private conversations of emails with the terrorist. GoV doesn't want people posting questions about their relationship with the killer. I suspect they're really shitting pickles about this. Could be big trouble.

They remind me of those Imams who preach hate and run away/deny when someone acts on it.

487 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:31:03am

Take a look at this. This is from the Fjordman screed:

The leading “Multicultural theorist” in my country, Professor Thomas Hylland Eriksen of the University of Oslo, said frankly that the most important thing to do now is “deconstructing the majority so thoroughly that it can never be called the majority again.” He is essentially calling for dismantling his own people and he knows that he can do so with total impunity.

Now look at this from Breivik's manifesto (p. 734):

And that we will do the world a big favor by contributing to our own extermination through third world colonisation. The self loathing runs deep through most aspects of society. To quote one of the most influential professors in Norway, Thomas Hylland Eriksen:

“Our (the Marxist elites of Europe) most important task ahead is to deconstruct the majority, and we must deconstruct them so thoroughly that they will never be able to call themselves the majority again”.

488 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:31:36am

A friendly German is defending LGF in the comments at Der Speigle...

Kurzer Hinweis: 'little green footballs' ist nicht mehr rechts. Ganz im Gegenteil. Man könnte es als watchblog gegen die rechtsradikalen Auswüchse der GOP und der Tea-Party-Bewegung bezeichnen.

Siehe auch Why I Parted Ways With The Right von LGF-Gründer und Betreiber Charles Johnson

489 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:32:39am

re: #459 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's a relief.

490 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:33:19am

re: #488 Killgore Trout

Translation

'Little green footballs' is no longer to the right. Quite the contrary. One could designate it as a watchblog against the radical right-wing outgrowths of the GOP and the Tea-party-movement.
491 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:34:22am

re: #484 Killgore Trout

Norway Police Arrest Six Over Terror Attacks
I haven't had time to follow up on this development yet.

From the link, "The detainees [the six arrested you mention] were later released, with police saying they had no link to the attacks."

492 What, me worry?  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:35:05am

re: #484 Killgore Trout

Norway Police Arrest Six Over Terror Attacks
I haven't had time to follow up on this development yet.

Norway and the rest of Europe are taking this very seriously, ideology included. They have to.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Norwegian prime minister Jens Stoltenberg promised last night that Norway would not be "bombed into silence" after the attacks in the Scandinavian country.

At a press conference in Oslo, Stoltenberg, pictured, said that those guilty for the atrocities would be brought to justice and that the attacks would bring "more openess and more democracy" to the country.

493 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:35:44am

re: #491 kirkspencer

From the link, "The detainees [the six arrested you mention] were later released, with police saying they had no link to the attacks."

Ah, thanks. I didn't catch that. I have too many windows open this morning.

494 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:37:07am

re: #477 Killgore Trout

I think the stalkers are running that tweeting script again on my garden page. Idiots.

There are legions of us gardeners out here, banding together against the slugs.

495 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:37:27am

re: #487 Gus 802

Take a look at this. This is from the Fjordman screed:

Now look at this from Breivik's manifesto (p. 734):

A lot of the manifesto is cut and place with selected words replaced. Much of the rest is re-write plagiarism instead of cut and place.

The only almost pure original section is the final days section.

496 simoom  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:37:53am

I just saw some GOP congressmen on Fox, and he was asked how he would ensure Cut, Cap & Balance would be ratified by 2/3 of the states... his response was they'd only raise the debt ceiling first for a short term, and then use the next debt ceiling deadline to "pressure" the states into ratifying their constitutional amendment. So threatening to crash the economy to get what they want from the President & the Senate Dems wasn't irresponsible enough, I guess, now they want to blackmail the States too? W-T-F.

497 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:39:25am

re: #494 Decatur Deb

There are legions of us gardeners out here, banding together against the slugs.

Anti-slug extremists!

498 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:40:04am

re: #497 Killgore Trout

Anti-slug extremists!

We like to call ourselves the "Knights of Voltaire".

499 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:40:11am

re: #496 simoom

I just saw some GOP congressmen on Fox, and he was asked how he would ensure Cut, Cap & Balance would be ratified by 2/3 of the states... his response was they'd only raise the debt ceiling first for a short term, and then use the next debt ceiling deadline to "pressure" the states into ratifying their constitutional amendment. So threatening to crash the economy to get what they want from the President & the Senate Dems wasn't irresponsible enough, I guess, now they want to blackmail the States too? W-T-F.

On a related note, I saw Cavuto freaking out a few days ago when the S&P guy said they may lower our credit rating.

"But! This is America!"
-Neil Cavuto

What a tool. Lol.

500 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:49:46am

re: #468 Gus 802

Genetic Communism? WTF is that? LOL

Well, Gus, it *sure* as hell isn't the Purity of Essence that the Fjordman's of the world seem to favor.

501 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:51:29am

re: #465 Killgore Trout

Does anyone else still have trouble editing pages after you post them? The "save changes" button is still off the screen and I can't resize the window enough to access it.

That kinda sounds like your video card is not in full agreement with your monitor. It's fine here. You could try a different resolution.

BTW I'm playing around with Photoshop CS5 to get more used to the new version. I hope you do not mind-I did a little retouch on your garden shot of the trombetta. The sky is still bright, Image: trombetta_copy.jpgyou might like the result... Just a little saturation on the lowest big leaf and a little more contrast overall.

502 Lidane  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:58:32am

re: #499 Varek Raith

On a related note, I saw Cavuto freaking out a few days ago when the S&P guy said they may lower our credit rating.

"But! This is America!"
-Neil Cavuto

What a tool. Lol.

That's a very telling mindset. Cavuto seems to think that we can do what we want without consequences, even default.

American Exceptionalism!

503 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 11:04:29am
504 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 11:32:03am

re: #465 Killgore Trout

Does anyone else still have trouble editing pages after you post them? The "save changes" button is still off the screen and I can't resize the window enough to access it.

I haven't had a problem.
It's just you?


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