The Oslo Terrorist’s ‘Counter-Jihad’ Ideology

Blood on their hands
World • Views: 58,858

By now you’ve probably heard about Oslo terrorist Anders Behring Breivik’s “manifesto,” a 1,516-page screed with some writing by Breivik, but mostly consisting of quotes and articles by “counter-jihad” bloggers and similar right wing sources.

(You can find it on the web if you really want to read it; I won’t link to it because there are sections that are basically a manual for terrorism; Breivik goes into great detail about the assembly and testing of the bomb, his weapons and ammunition, etc.)

But I’ve seen a lot of people mistakenly attributing the articles that make up most of the manifesto to Breivik himself. In fact, the blog source that’s probably cited the most throughout Breivik’s book is Jihad Watch, run by anti-Muslim demagogue Robert Spencer; Breivik cites Robert Spencer more than 40 times, always approvingly.

And a very large number — more than three dozen — of the lengthy articles reprinted in the book are the work of the anonymous white nationalist blogger “Fjordman,” who apparently gave Breivik permission to use them.

Back in the day, I linked to Fjordman’s articles myself; he was a big self-promoter and would email and ask for links every time he posted something. But sometime around 2007 (when I criticized him and other “counter-jihad” bloggers for making deals with extreme right wing European groups) it became clear that his seeming erudition and extreme logorrhea was a cover for a particularly nasty form of European white nationalism.

And this split is actually reflected in the articles by Fjordman that Breivik put in his book. In the early pieces you’ll see complimentary links to LGF, turning into insults and revilement in the later pieces when I called them out, then wouldn’t back down or “apologize” to these racist cretins.

Many of the most extreme statements and positions I’ve seen people quoting are actually taken directly from Fjordman himself. LGF reader Gus 802 found a great example of this, in one of Fjordman’s articles from 2009, titled The Coming Crash:

Some highlights of this one article:

• I would rank Britain as the Western European country most likely to first get a civil war caused by mass immigration and Multiculturalism.

• There will be a pan-Western and perhaps international economic and social collapse in the not-too-distant future.

• We need to learn from our enemies, both internal and external…They must be squashed, otherwise we cannot deal rationally and adequately with our external enemies.

• We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway.

• We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references, for instance by making a video dedicated to anti-white verbal and physical violence around the world. We must take steps to ensure our physical safety and regain pride in our heritage.

• The current US President Obama has publicly pledged himself to combat opposition to Islam rather than Islam itself, which means that it is official US policy to spread Islamic law.

• If the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire then the USA is the Diversity Empire, committed to spreading Multiculturalism and genetic Communism around the world, especially to white majority countries.

• The United States will not survive this century. It will be split into several countries according to ethnic, racial and perhaps even ideological lines. There is no such thing as a universal nation. People want to live with their own kind. The only ones who are not allowed to do so are whites, and they are starting to get tired of this double standard.

• Anti-white ideologies are now taught in every Western university and were arguably elevated to national ideology in the USA with the election of Obama.

Just look at what these people are saying to their right wing fans; if you follow this stuff to its sickening logical conclusion, the very fate of civilization itself is at risk. It’s an apocalyptic view, a vision of a war for existence against the encroaching dark-skinned hordes.

Among people who truly believe this paranoid world view, is it any wonder that one of them finally took the next step?

Unlike Jared Loughner (the shooter of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords), with Anders Behring Breivik there’s no doubt whatsoever where he got the inspiration and the ideology that led inexorably to the horror in Oslo.

When Gabrielle Giffords and several others were shot, I was critical of the right wing blogs and Sarah Palin in particular, for encouraging a climate of violent rhetoric. But in the Norway atrocities, the responsibility is far more evident and direct.

People like Fjordman and Pamela Geller and the right wing blogosphere who spew apocalyptic rhetoric and refuse to denounce the extremists among them now have the very real blood of children on their hands.

Jump to bottom

1006 comments

1 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:50:28pm

Charles, thank you labeling these horrible incidents as atrocities and not tragedies.

2 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:50:54pm

Social Darwinism + genetic communism = cultural bolshevism?

3 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:54:01pm

Well said.

But sometime around 2007 (when I criticized him and other “counter-jihad” bloggers for making deals with extreme right wing European groups) it became clear that his seeming erudition and extreme logorrhea was a cover for a particularly nasty form of European white nationalism.

I think the most of that occurred in October/November 2007

4 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:54:51pm

Thank you, Charles.

5 Alexzander  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:57:52pm

re: #4 Sergey Romanov

Thank you, Charles.

Thank you Sergey for you coverage as well.

6 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:58:38pm

Thanks Charles. Of course now I have to go into hiding and hire six body guards. Maybe not.

7 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:59:20pm

Thanks for not linking that screed. It's irresponsible IMO to put that out there without the instructions for havoc redacted/removed. Not illegal, but surely irresponsible and unmindful of likely abuse.

8 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 1:59:29pm

re: #6 Gus 802

Thanks Charles. Of course now I have to go into hiding and hire six body guards. Maybe not.

Have tuba, will travel.

9 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:00:56pm

Feminism is an extension of Marxism? That's like saying Mormonism is an extension of Lesbianism. I think Brevik and Spencer are just extensions of jism.

10 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:00:59pm

I agree the Right has a problem in that they have not distanced themselves from the more extremist elements in their midst. This has been and will continue to be a huge problem as large numbers of center right types like myself choose to distance ourselves from what is an increasingly cacophony of nothingness and meaninglessness.

It is also true Breivik's madness was triggered by that very noise and ugliness.

Nevertheless, the right wing drivel was the trigger only. It served as a platform to launch an already existing psychosis.

If extreme right wing (or left wing or Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu, etc) ideologies could so easily influence hordes of people into committing acts of violence and terror, we would see a lot more of it.

The vast majority of right wing, left wing and all kinds of religious adherents are not violent nor do they condone violence (all political rhetoric aside).

The right wing noise was the delivery vehicle for his already existing insanity.

11 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:01:53pm

I came across that screed this morning and couldn't believe my eyes. It's such a pathological mess with almost all of the extremist memes. The racism is blatant as is the hatred and paranoia. Such as this one:

Anti-white ideologies are now taught in every Western university and were arguably elevated to national ideology in the USA with the election of Obama.

12 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:02:13pm

He sounds a bit like Glenn Beck or Michele Bachmann here:

The current US President Obama has publicly pledged himself to combat opposition to Islam rather than Islam itself, which means that it is official US policy to spread Islamic law
13 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:03:41pm

re: #11 Gus 802

I came across that screed this morning and couldn't believe my eyes. It's such a pathological mess with almost all of the extremist memes. The racism is blatant as is the hatred and paranoia. Such as this one:

Stupidity is a grand canyon.

Really, really grand.

14 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:03:52pm

What is "genetic communism"? When the workers seize control of the means of reproduction?

15 Alexzander  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:03:58pm

Do people think this story will change the nature of political dialogue for a while?

Will politicians (I'm thinking of you Cain!) lay off the islamophobia for a while?

16 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:04:27pm

re: #15 Alexzander

Do people think this story will change the nature of political dialogue for a while?

Will politicians (I'm thinking of you Cain!) lay off the islamophobia for a while?

No to both, IMO

17 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:04:28pm

re: #12 darthstar

He sounds a bit like Glenn Beck or Michele Bachmann here:

Visions of grandeur. I present the Fjordman fantasy:

We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references

Document "what is being done to us"?

18 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:04:31pm

re: #14 ralphieboy

It must be the kind that's "in the blood."

19 jvic  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:05:03pm

Fjordman's predictions differ in detail but not in kind from a plausible outcome of a Great Depression.

As economic negotiations proceed in Washington and Europe, I hope the participants will behave as adults.

20 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:05:37pm

re: #18 jaunte

It must be the kind that's "in the blood."

It's probably NOT a typo. Considering he must believe in "genetic destiny" if you know what I mean.

21 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:05:37pm

re: #17 Gus 802

Visions of grandeur. I present the Fjordman fantasy:

We must document what is being done to us by treasonous elites for future references

Document "what is being done to us"?

He wants Nuremberg Trials.

Or, McCarthy type hearings at the very least.

22 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:06:53pm

re: #15 Alexzander

Do people think this story will change the nature of political dialogue for a while?

Will politicians (I'm thinking of you Cain!) lay off the islamophobia for a while?

Nope. and Nope.

23 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:07:01pm

re: #21 researchok

He wants Nuremberg Trials.

Or, McCarthy type hearings at the very least.

Very odd. It's like he's fantasizing battling Skynet.

24 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:07:26pm

re: #15 Alexzander

Do people think this story will change the nature of political dialogue for a while?

Will politicians (I'm thinking of you Cain!) lay off the islamophobia for a while?

Just look at Brevik: he is the very epitome of the adage "Don't retreat, reload!"

25 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:07:39pm
People like Fjordman and Pamela Geller and the right wing blogosphere who refused to denounce the extremists among them now have the very real blood of children on their hands.

I really wish CJ had bolded that.

When you read that on it'sown, it is quite a powerful indictment.

26 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:07:43pm

re: #10 researchok

I can't agree that Breivik is "insane." He appears to be highly intelligent, highly organized, and very effective at achieving his goals -- not disordered or impulsive or any of the other characteristics of insanity.

Someone like him is much more frightening than a madman.

27 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:08:28pm

re: #16 researchok

No to both, IMO

Of course not...people like this see their actions as a response to those things which they hate. They don't even feel like they're responsible for their own actions.

28 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:08:36pm

re: #26 Charles


"insane" as in "incomprehensible to normal persons"

29 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:08:54pm

re: #8 Idle Drifter

Have tuba, will travel.

Just for the quick reference.

30 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:09:04pm

re: #23 Gus 802

Very odd. It's like he's fantasizing battling Skynet.

Like virtually every other kind of psychotic, he really does feel persecuted in one form or another. Seriously. He sees himself as righteous and pious.

31 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:09:24pm

I flicked through his manifesto but there's no way I'm ever ploughing my way through all 1500 pages of the stupid bastard's thoughtwank. PZ Myers on Pharyngula had some interesting extracts though. Basically he refers to his 'missions' as if he's in a computer game and there's a few paragraphs of the usual male wingnut rhetoric about banning contraception and abortion for white women. And discouraging them from pursuing higher education so they can stay home and repopulate Europe with white babies to compete against the Muslim hordes.

32 Mark Winter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:09:43pm

The "manifesto" will actually have to be read and analyzed, because we need to understand one thing: This is not some "deranged madman", this is a clear thinking person with a mission and ready to carry it out no matter what, just like the Nazis did.

The island of Utøya isn't just some holiday island, it's THE island which probably every member of the Norwegian Labor Party has been. Many young people who were murdered had immigrant roots. Utøya was a symbol of integration.

We did not consider Bin Laden a loony madman, we considered him a dangerous terrorist with a dangerous terrorist ideology that did appeal to many.

We need to analyze and combat the terrorist ideology the Norwegian killer based his actions upon. We must not dismiss him as a loony.

This is far more serious. The Norwegian killer forces us to look at the most hateful fundamentalist "Christian", anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-integration rhetoric. It's filth but we must deal with it.

There's incredible hate propagated in blogs this guy was fond of. Geller, Fjordman, Gates of Vienna, Brussels Journal, Politically Incorrect (in Germany) and many others.

We need to fight it. Freedom of speech, yes, but we MUST not allow them to win "hearts and minds".

They are the enemy.

33 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:10:04pm

re: #26 Charles

Agreed. At the very least he doesn't appear such. Maybe psychiatric evaluation will show otherwise.

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:11:01pm

re: #31 beekiller

On a couple of the older threads yesterday I quoted some very juicy excerpts.

35 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:11:54pm

This "counter-Jihadi" used terms like "martyrdom operation".

36 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:13:31pm

re: #26 Charles

I can't agree that Breivik is "insane." He appears to be highly intelligent, highly organized, and very effective at achieving his goals -- not disordered or impulsive or any of the other characteristics of insanity.

Someone like him is much more frightening than a madman.

Therein lies the most frightening part of Breivik- his orderliness and ordinariness.

Insanity can manifest itself in many ways, in anybody. Recall John Nash (A Beautiful Mind), Mengele the physician or even Che, the great liberator and 'friend of the people'.

All these were examples of highly organized people who uised their various talents to do some very bad things.

37 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:13:59pm

re: #34 Sergey Romanov

On a couple of the older threads yesterday I quoted some very juicy excerpts.

Thanks. I'll back track your comments.

38 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:14:49pm

re: #36 researchok

Therein lies the paradox - neither Mengele, nor the aforementioned bin Laden were insane in the clinical sense.

39 Mattand  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:15:00pm
Back in the day, I linked to Fjordman’s articles myself; he was a big self-promoter and would email and ask for links every time he posted something. But sometime around 2007 (when I criticized him and other “counter-jihad” bloggers for making deals with extreme right wing European groups) it became clear that his seeming erudition and extreme logorrhea was a cover for a particularly nasty form of European white nationalism.

I hate to be "that guy", but what was it about Fjordman's article that interested you in the first place? He sounds like a nasty piece of work.

40 Mark Winter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:16:03pm

And let's not forget that Hitler's Mein Kampf was a thousand pages of disorganized, poorly written, lunatic sounding dribble, but he clearly wrote down his intentions he was to follow through.

Few people actually forced themselves to actually read it. They should have.

41 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:16:15pm

re: #33 Sergey Romanov

Agreed. At the very least he doesn't appear such. Maybe psychiatric evaluation will show otherwise.

Fuck it...treat him like he's sane. Max sentence in Norway is 21 years. I don't know that they do separate counts, but if they can, then I suspect he'll get 21 years for every person he killed. If there was no statute of limitations, they could charge him for the first 21 victims, then 21 years from now charge him for the next 21 victims...

But don't give him a stage to spread his hate. There's no need for him to testify in his own defense...keep the fucker quiet.

42 Alexzander  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:16:25pm

re: #37 beekiller

Thanks. I'll back track your comments.

Its worth it. Sergey found lots of interesting components of the manifesto.

43 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:16:39pm

re: #33 Sergey Romanov

Agreed. At the very least he doesn't appear such. Maybe psychiatric evaluation will show otherwise.

Maybe but his manifesto was fairly cohesive and not a rambling mess. The arguments he uses as his inspiration are common on counterjihad blogs. He had a clear ideology to work with.

44 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:17:21pm

re: #38 Sergey Romanov

Therein lies the paradox - neither Mengele, nor the aforementioned bin Laden were insane in the clinical sense.

Agreed. But that makes them no less insane in the clinical terms you are referring to.

A serious case of BPD however, is a pretty safe bet all around.

Ah, the world we live in

45 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:19:15pm

re: #41 darthstar

There is a form of court-approved indefinite detention in Norway, so don't worry, he won't get out.
In Russia, unlike in the US, we don't sum up the years for different offenses, basically it's like if there was a murder and a robbery, and for robbery one gets 5 years and for murder - 20, then he in the end he will get 20. I don't know how it is in Norway, maybe the same, or maybe the years can be summed up but only until they hit 21.

46 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:20:26pm

re: #26 Charles

Breivik is a thinking killer with conviction. When there is one there will be more.

47 blueraven  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:20:26pm

re: #33 Sergey Romanov

Agreed. At the very least he doesn't appear such. Maybe psychiatric evaluation will show otherwise.

I certainly dont think he is crazy in a way that Loughner is.
Although he might suffer from narcissism and delusions of grandeur.

Sometimes evil is just evil.

48 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:20:47pm

re: #26 Charles

I can't agree that Breivik is "insane." He appears to be highly intelligent, highly organized, and very effective at achieving his goals -- not disordered or impulsive or any of the other characteristics of insanity.

Someone like him is much more frightening than a madman.

Sociopaths are like that. Completely without conscience. Other people are just meat bags for their amusement.

I've been reading a *lot* of commentary on his Manifesto. And the Anti-Jihadist crowd is right. His philosophy is completely different from theirs, except for the fact that it is exactly the same.

49 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:21:30pm

re: #44 researchok

Agreed. But that makes them no less insane in the clinical terms you are referring to.

A serious case of BPD however, is a pretty safe bet all around.

Ah, the world we live in

More on BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder)

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:22:22pm

re: #47 blueraven

I'm currently reading lots of interrogations/statements of the Nazis and Wachmaenner from the extermination camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, and all of them strike me as "normal people". But the deeds they did...

51 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:08pm

re: #32 Mark Winter


People have to learn the immediacy of the threat to them and their children.

But dombatting this does not mean banning speech, it means raising their own voices, individually and collectively to make clear what these people are saying and untimately planning to do.

We cannot hide behind a government and expect it to just outlaw certain parties, associations or modes of speech. We have to develop our own parites, associations and modes of speech to counter them.

52 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:11pm

re: #39 mattand

I hate to be "that guy", but what was it about Fjordman's article that interested you in the first place? He sounds like a nasty piece of work.

He didn't just write these articles - he also frequently emailed links to info on radical Islam, and for a while there was nothing obviously racist about what he wrote. At the time I was looking for any and all information on radical Islam, and he seemed to have quite a bit of it.

Do I wish I could have seen what he and Spencer and the rest of them were up to a little bit sooner? Yes, I sure do; it's hard to really judge someone you know only through the Internet.

But as soon as the scales fell from my eyes I walked ... no, ran away from that crowd.

53 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:56pm

re: #45 Sergey Romanov

There is a form of court-approved indefinite detention in Norway, so don't worry, he won't get out.
In Russia, unlike in the US, we don't sum up the years for different offenses, basically it's like if there was a murder and a robbery, and for robbery one gets 5 years and for murder - 20, then he in the end he will get 20. I don't know how it is in Norway, maybe the same, or maybe the years can be summed up but only until they hit 21.

It's not that common even in the US for a convict to be receive consecutive sentences. Past convictions, varied crimes and egregious offenses are more likely to sway a judge away from concurrent sentencing.

54 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:24:57pm

re: #45 Sergey Romanov

There is a form of court-approved indefinite detention in Norway, so don't worry, he won't get out.
In Russia, unlike in the US, we don't sum up the years for different offenses, basically it's like if there was a murder and a robbery, and for robbery one gets 5 years and for murder - 20, then he in the end he will get 20. I don't know how it is in Norway, maybe the same, or maybe the years can be summed up but only until they hit 21.

Remember Andrei Chikatilo, the serial killer?

Another mild mannered guy.

As for Russian Justice in that case, well, sometimes things are best left unsaid.

55 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:26:12pm

re: #10 researchok

(snip)
Nevertheless, the right wing drivel was the trigger only. It served as a platform to launch an already existing psychosis.
(snip)

As I said the last time you raised this, I cannot agree.

Are the imams who publish fatwas blameless for the evils done in their names? I say no, and by the same logic I cannot excuse the producers of the drivel.

They need to distance themselves. They need to quit spewing the rhetoric.

They are providing the 'blameless voice' portion of leaderless resistance. Calling those who heed the voice crazy or nuts or extreme or excessive does not remove their culpability.

If Geller and Spencer and all the rest are not to blame for the actions of Breivik, then neither are the imams to blame for the actions their followers take.

56 Mark Winter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:26:38pm

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

I'm currently reading lots of interrogations/statements of the Nazis and Wachmaenner from the extermination camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, and all of them strike me as "normal people". But the deeds they did...

The problem is that we tend to equate "insane" with "not responsible for his actions".

The Nazis may have been totally "insane", but they were absolutely responsible for what they did.

57 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:27:03pm

re: #52 Charles


Do I wish I could have seen what he and Spencer and the rest of them were up to a little bit sooner? Yes, I sure do; it's hard to really judge someone you know only through the Internet.

But as soon as the scales fell from my eyes I walked ... no, ran away from that crowd.

And apparently you got out just in time. Even Geller is trying to do damage control right now. But it's a beautiful day to scrub the internets...speaking of which...where are the fuckheads of FoxNation on this topic?

58 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:27:21pm

re: #56 Mark Winter

The problem is that we tend to equate "insane" with "not responsible for his actions".

The Nazis may have been totally "insane", but they were absolutely responsible for what they did.


again, "insane" as in "incomprehensibe to a normal person"

59 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:27:48pm

re: #54 researchok

Well, Chikatilo absolutely was clincally insane. Read his clemency petition through Google translate: [Link: www.serial-killers.ru...]

60 blueraven  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:28:03pm

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

I'm currently reading lots of interrogations/statements of the Nazis and Wachmaenner from the extermination camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, and all of them strike me as "normal people". But the deeds they did...

It is just so hard for us to comprehend, we always think they must be insane or something.

BTW thank you for your excellent synopsis of his manifesto in the article comments and pages you posted yesterday. You, Charles, Olsonist(sp?) Gus, and several others that I would have to look up names, really have made LGF the top spot for the truth about this monster.

61 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:28:03pm

re: #55 kirkspencer

As I said the last time you raised this, I cannot agree.

Are the imams who publish fatwas blameless for the evils done in their names? I say no, and by the same logic I cannot excuse the producers of the drivel.

They need to distance themselves. They need to quit spewing the rhetoric.

They are providing the 'blameless voice' portion of leaderless resistance. Calling those who heed the voice crazy or nuts or extreme or excessive does not remove their culpability.

If Geller and Spencer and all the rest are not to blame for the actions of Breivik, then neither are the imams to blame for the actions their followers take.

The imams are not blameless- they are facilitators but they did not create the underlying dysfunction. They may have exploited that, but they did not create it.

Are you advocating against free speech?

62 mp11  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:28:25pm

"People like Fjordman and Pamela Geller and the right wing blogosphere who refused to denounce the extremists among them now have the very real blood of children on their hands."

I would add Geert Wilders to that list. The shooter stated in several blog posts that Wilders’ Party was the only true political force. If anyone wants to see how his supporters are interpreting this should go to a Dutch forum populated by his followers (the Forum for Freedom).

There is an ongoing discussion on whether killing young people, specifically members of leftist organizations is ever justifiable and a general consensus has formed that it actually is! (youll need to use google translator)

[Link: www.forum-voor-de-vrijheid.nl...]

63 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:30:19pm

re: #55 kirkspencer

As I said the last time you raised this, I cannot agree.

Are the imams who publish fatwas blameless for the evils done in their names? I say no, and by the same logic I cannot excuse the producers of the drivel.

They need to distance themselves. They need to quit spewing the rhetoric.

They are providing the 'blameless voice' portion of leaderless resistance. Calling those who heed the voice crazy or nuts or extreme or excessive does not remove their culpability.

If Geller and Spencer and all the rest are not to blame for the actions of Breivik, then neither are the imams to blame for the actions their followers take.

Well said.

64 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:30:52pm

re: #59 Sergey Romanov

Well, Chikatilo absolutely was clincally insane. Read his clemency petition through Google translate: [Link: www.serial-killers.ru...]

He was deemed insane after he was indicted (and some say that diagnosis was as much politically motivated as anything else. The authorities questioned him early on found nothing suspicious about the guy). Prior to his indictment he was considered remarkably unremarkable.

65 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:31:12pm

re: #39 mattand

I hate to be "that guy", but what was it about Fjordman's article that interested you in the first place? He sounds like a nasty piece of work.

Can't speak for Charles, but I was interested in Fjordman because I thought he might help in the marketing of my new novel, The Bummer Files. This is a near-future dystopian revolution story in which the United States has been taken over by the COG, the Caliphate Occupation Government. The COG in turn has instituted Shariah law and replaced legitimate teachers with gay married couples who preach evolution and global warming with the help of ACORN enforcers and other liberal collaborationists. The hero, Axel Bummer, launches a revolution against the COG, first by spraying a COG office/Mosque with pig grease, leafletting New Medina (formerly New York) with Glenn Beck pamphlets, and by passing out counterfeit money in Muslim neighborhoods. He also liberates captured patriots from Fire Island, where they are being held by the gay Muslim collaborator forces. After a while, COG magically collapses, the imans are expelled to Canada or otherwise dealt with, and the revolutionaries take revenge on the collaborators.
///

66 Mark Winter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:31:24pm

re: #52 Charles

But as soon as the scales fell from my eyes I walked ... no, ran away from that crowd.

I remember that you were one of the first (if not the first) in America who exposed the dangerous ideology of allegedly "obscure" small European right wing parties (Vlaams Belang etc), and you were ridiculized for giving them too much importance.

Some people should eat a lot of crow now but of course we all know that they won't.

67 allegro  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:32:37pm

re: #58 ralphieboy

again, "insane" as in "incomprehensibe to a normal person"

Palin, Bachmann, Perry, et all are entirely incomprehensible to me and I suspect a whole lot of other normal people.

68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:32:44pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

Can't speak for Charles, but I was interested in Fjordman because I thought he might help in the marketing of my new novel, The Bummer Files. This is a near-future dystopian revolution story in which the United States has been taken over by the COG, the Caliphate Occupation Government. The COG in turn has instituted Shariah law and replaced legitimate teachers with gay married couples who preach evolution and global warming with the help of ACORN enforcers and other liberal collaborationists. The hero, Axel Bummer, launches a revolution against the COG, first by spraying a COG office/Mosque with pig grease, leafletting New Medina (formerly New York) with Glenn Beck pamphlets, and by passing out counterfeit money in Muslim neighborhoods. He also liberates captured patriots from Fire Island, where they are being held by the gay Muslim collaborator forces. After a while, COG magically collapses, the imans are expelled to Canada or otherwise dealt with, and the revolutionaries take revenge on the collaborators.
///

That you Tom Kratman?

69 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:33:03pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

I assume that of your 1,500 page novel, at least 1,450 pages are devoted to graphically describing the sort of revenge the patriots take on the COG and its minions...

/

70 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:33:40pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

COG! LOL. Thanks.

71 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:09pm

re: #69 ralphieboy

I assume that of your 1,500 page novel, at least 1,450 pages are devoted to graphically describing the sort of revenge the patriots take on the COG and its minions...

/

At least, but it's 2500 pages.

72 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:15pm

re: #67 allegro

Palin, Bachmann, Perry, et all are entirely incomprehensible to me and I suspect a whole lot of other normal people.


But nonetheless fully responsible for their actions.

(Except Bachmann, who is stoned on migraine pills)

/

73 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:17pm

As many of us old time lizards remember not all the stuff on "counterjihad" blogs is hateful racist BS. Radical Islam, terrorism, human rights, etc are serious issues and should be discussed. Even hot topics like immigration and assimiliation should be discussed openly. The problem is that these topics attract bigots, supremacists, religious fanatics and extremists. The legitimate issues regarding radical Islam haven't gone away but the debate has been hijacked by radicals on both sides. LGF fought like hell to keep the radicals away from "our" side of the debate. We lost that battle.

74 po8crg  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:23pm

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

I'm currently reading lots of interrogations/statements of the Nazis and Wachmaenner from the extermination camps of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka, and all of them strike me as "normal people". But the deeds they did...

Ever heard the phrase "the banality of evil"?

75 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:30pm

re: #14 ralphieboy

What is "genetic communism"? When the workers seize control of the means of reproduction?


Maybe teaching your kids to be communists?

It could explain why he chose that particular target.

76 Mark Winter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:34:57pm

re: #51 ralphieboy

People have to learn the immediacy of the threat to them and their children.

But dombatting this does not mean banning speech, it means raising their own voices, individually and collectively to make clear what these people are saying and untimately planning to do.

We cannot hide behind a government and expect it to just outlaw certain parties, associations or modes of speech. We have to develop our own parites, associations and modes of speech to counter them.

That's what I meant. Not banning their" speech but confronting it, aggressively and intelligently

77 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:35:07pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

As many of us old time lizards remember not all the stuff on "counterjihad" blogs is hateful racist BS. Radical Islam, terrorism, human rights, etc are serious issues and should be discussed. Even hot topics like immigration and assimiliation should be discussed openly. The problem is that these topics attract bigots, supremacists, religious fanatics and extremists. The legitimate issues regarding radical Islam haven't gone away but the debate has been hijacked by radicals on both sides. LGF fought like hell to keep the radicals away from "our" side of the debate. We lost that battle.

Well said.

78 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:36:02pm

re: #65 Shiplord Kirel

Plagiarist!!! /

Google "The Mosque of Notre Dame de Paris"

79 Mattand  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:36:24pm

re: #52 Charles

Thanks for the response. I was hesitant to post that question, for fear of appearing like a 'gotcha' question. I appreciate the candor.

80 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:37:38pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

As many of us old time lizards remember not all the stuff on "counterjihad" blogs is hateful racist BS. Radical Islam, terrorism, human rights, etc are serious issues and should be discussed. Even hot topics like immigration and assimiliation should be discussed openly. The problem is that these topics attract bigots, supremacists, religious fanatics and extremists. The legitimate issues regarding radical Islam haven't gone away but the debate has been hijacked by radicals on both sides. LGF fought like hell to keep the radicals away from "our" side of the debate. We lost that battle.

I'm sorry but this place was pretty radical then. I applaud the change but that doesn't rewrite the history of this place.

81 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:40:22pm

re: #80 recusancy

LGF is not a political party or movement, nor is it a political manifesto, it is an ongoing discussion.

82 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:40:34pm

OT, but I decided to look up our "journalist" from earlier.

Apparently, she has a history of Islam-bashing, and actually has done speeches about this at Universities.

Her piece was more or less meant to protect her friends, while smearing an opponent. She is also saying that she is not allowed to register, even though Charles did open the registration for a time.

She is doing the martyr routine. Someone want to comment there that registration was open, and that she obviously did not take advantage of it?

83 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:42:12pm

As a digression, I made a wordcloud of the manifesto on wordle. You can see it here.

84 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:42:19pm

re: #52 Charles
To your credit you do have an uncanny read on people online.
Even in the real world you can get shocked to the bone. In the early 1980's I knew this one guy from seeing him deliver every day to my work. Over time we all chatted with him. A couple years. One day he's gone, and then we read in the paper he was a stone cold rapist/killer, busted by a survivor with many stab wounds. The ladies straight out freaked for a bit, and rightfully so.

85 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:42:51pm

re: #80 recusancy

I'm sorry but this place was pretty radical then. I applaud the change but that doesn't rewrite the history of this place.

This place was opinionated but very different than the other sites.

There were always smart people here- more than elsewhere- and notwithstanding the opinions, there were always good exchanges to be had, every day.

A lot of the people from back then are here today and that is what distinguishes this place from everywhere else.

86 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:42:55pm

re: #82 ProLifeLiberal
I am not surprised. As you said, "martyr routine."

87 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:44:53pm

re: #61 researchok

The imams are not blameless- they are facilitators but they did not create the underlying dysfunction. They may have exploited that, but they did not create it.

Are you advocating against free speech?

You are not free to falsely call "fire" in a crowded theater. You are not allowed to incite violence, riot, or rebellion. You are not allowed to slander or libel.

If restricting anything short of completely free speech is advocating against free speech, then the answer to your question is "yes."

88 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:45:21pm

re: #85 researchok


I joined the site back then to hone my arguments by taking on conservatives, mostly because although I found this site rather far right for my taste, the arguments were generally rational and well founded.

But i am not at all disappointed with the change it has undergone since then

89 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:45:38pm

okay...internet breaktime...going to see if I can make it to the beach with the dogs as it's 68 degrees and sunny out...gorgeous day.

90 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:47:14pm

re: #10 researchok

I agree the Right has a problem in that they have not distanced themselves from the more extremist elements in their midst. This has been and will continue to be a huge problem as large numbers of center right types like myself choose to distance ourselves from what is an increasingly cacophony of nothingness and meaninglessness.

It is also true Breivik's madness was triggered by that very noise and ugliness.

Nevertheless, the right wing drivel was the trigger only. It served as a platform to launch an already existing psychosis.

If extreme right wing (or left wing or Christian or Jewish or Muslim or Hindu, etc) ideologies could so easily influence hordes of people into committing acts of violence and terror, we would see a lot more of it.

The vast majority of right wing, left wing and all kinds of religious adherents are not violent nor do they condone violence (all political rhetoric aside).

The right wing noise was the delivery vehicle for his already existing insanity.

Terrorism as we know it today perpetrated by radical Islamists is not something that has always existed. This offensive has increased dramatically thanks in large part to Islamist like Qutb in Egypt and Azzam in Afghanistan, and with the financial assistance of Saudi Arabia. We are constantly calling for the Muslim world to address this cancer within precisely because it is so effective.

Allow me to point out that their "struggle" is seen by the Islamists in almost exactly the same way the counter-Jihadists see theirs—as a righteous, noble defense against encroaching foreign culture & value systems that threaten to destroy their way of life. This counter-jihad is literally jihad in-kind mirror movement.

Anyone who thinks that Westerners (or Western culture) will indefinitely remain immune to a well-orchestrated and well-funded pan-Western campaign of the sort that that was worked so well for the jihadists is sticking their head in the sand, IMO. You, as a behaviorist, should be more aware of this than most.

Our government is concerned about right-wing terrorism for good reason. All cultures may not be equal, but all cultures are made up of human beings who are susceptible to persuasion under the right circumstances. To think that this is "only a trigger" for those who are already "insane" and that the rest of us are somehow immune & above it all is pure folly.

History has proven this. THIS BLOG has proven this. How many people here—people I consider to be decent & rational—have I seen admit to thinking pretty awful things in the aftermath of 9/11? Why did Charles back away from the far-right? Because it is a clear & present danger.

91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:48:02pm

re: #88 ralphieboy

Oh, fuck off.
/

92 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:48:11pm

re: #88 ralphieboy

I joined the site back then to hone my arguments by taking on conservatives, mostly because although I found this site rather far right for my taste, the arguments were generally rational and well founded.

But i am not at all disappointed with the change it has undergone since then

I couldn't agree more.

I'm still to the right of center, but being on here has tempered my views somewhat. All in all, not a bad thing.

93 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:48:21pm

re: #86 PhillyPretzel

Now, the question is whether we can somehow force publications to drop her.

The Nation probably will rather quickly when notified of her dealings.

Now, what about the others.

It needs to be made clear that these libelous untrue attacks can not be tolerated, along with smearing a religious group.

Also, Muslims in Norway are fairly well integrated, at least considering the continent.

94 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:48:42pm

re: #85 researchok

This place was opinionated but very different than the other sites.

There were always smart people here- more than elsewhere- and notwithstanding the opinions, there were always good exchanges to be had, every day.

A lot of the people from back then are here today and that is what distinguishes this place from everywhere else.

Opinionated and radical. This place left them (gellar et al.), they didn't leave you. They didn't, all of a sudden become crazy one day.

95 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:49:06pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

As many of us old time lizards remember not all the stuff on "counterjihad" blogs is hateful racist BS. Radical Islam, terrorism, human rights, etc are serious issues and should be discussed. Even hot topics like immigration and assimiliation should be discussed openly. The problem is that these topics attract bigots, supremacists, religious fanatics and extremists. The legitimate issues regarding radical Islam haven't gone away but the debate has been hijacked by radicals on both sides. LGF fought like hell to keep the radicals away from "our" side of the debate. We lost that battle.

Remember the Israeli "Transfer!" crowd? Jeez. The whole idea of Jews advocating ethnic cleansing was nuts to me.

96 AK-47%  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:49:27pm

re: #91 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, fuck off.
/


C'mon, I want the passive-aggressive stuff...

/

97 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:49:33pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

As many of us old time lizards remember not all the stuff on "counterjihad" blogs is hateful racist BS. Radical Islam, terrorism, human rights, etc are serious issues and should be discussed. Even hot topics like immigration and assimiliation should be discussed openly. The problem is that these topics attract bigots, supremacists, religious fanatics and extremists. The legitimate issues regarding radical Islam haven't gone away but the debate has been hijacked by radicals on both sides. LGF fought like hell to keep the radicals away from "our" side of the debate. We lost that battle.

And they're going to bring it up even though it isn't relevant anymore until the end of time.
[Link: hotair.com...]

98 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:50:41pm

Geller is still at work tagging anything conceivable as creeping sharia.


Sharia coming to taxi cab ads in NYC?
Cab drivers want to just say no to strip club ads on their vehicles.
....
TLC Commissioner David Yassky said yesterday he favors letting drivers who own their taxis but lease medallions have veto power on putting ads on their car.

99 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:51:49pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

I forgot to include these links:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

100 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:53:08pm
101 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:54:18pm

Shot in the dark, but does anyone know if we have any Ottawa lizards?

102 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:55:00pm

re: #31 beekiller

BTW, welcome back.

103 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:55:14pm

re: #97 beekiller

And they're going to bring it up even though it isn't relevant anymore until the end of time.
[Link: hotair.com...]

It's part of having taken sides with the wrong crowd at one point. Sen Byrd still has the albatross of the KKK around his neck even though he left and denounced them a half century ago.

104 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:55:56pm

re: #100 Varek Raith

ROFL

This is the kind of thing I point to as evidence that we as a nation are getting dumber.

105 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:58:02pm

re: #102 CuriousLurker

BTW, welcome back.

Thanks! I missed you, too.

106 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:58:30pm

In the last thread I dissected a statement by Sergey regarding how hard it is to take a "tradition" and extrapolate the degree to which a culture really follows it...and thus it's hard to lay blame to a collective of people for individual evils done in the name of a tradition.

This article is like the counterpoint to that: the construct "tradition" can be weaponized precisely because it is so plastic...which is exactly what's being deployed by "pro-Western civilization" anti-Islam, anti-MC types.

To rave against multiculturalism, you have to embrace the flawed, doesn't-match-observation premise that culture is something crystalline and immiscible; that's there's an irreducible element to European-ness, or Arab-ness (etc). Cultural diffusion, interconnectedness of world media and economics, ease of travel--all these bely the conceit of regional cultures as islands, and generation by generation things are just getting more blurry. Not only is the us-versus-them dichotomy false, but the temporal continuity of us-being-us is dubious. It is, consistently and eternally, bullshit of the first order.

You have to unpack all of the unjustifed assumptions of the rhetorician invoking these tropes: the result of such a deconstruction invariably demonstrates a kind of macro-invocation of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy: the presenter first creates a constrained identity definition based on their preferences, then villifies or nullifies individuals that don't meet their criterion as either "completely other" or "contaminated." The inevitable next step is to dismiss the opinions, protestations, agency, and rights of the myriad "false Scotsmen"--first in rhetoric, then in the culture, and if possible in legislation. It's a worldview that can be extrapolated from any basal philosophy (political, religious, social).

The purge, the jihad, the inquisition--they're an epiphenomenon put through a prism, built of the same failings: hubris; intoxication with absolute authority; and a narrowness that eschews debate, mistakes doubt for weakness and rigidity for strength.

107 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:58:59pm

re: #80 recusancy

I'm sorry but this place was pretty radical then. I applaud the change but that doesn't rewrite the history of this place.

I don't know. It's been a while since I've looked at those old threads. There was certainly a radical element, there's no doubt about that but many of us "neocon" types were previously left leaning folks who didn't really recognize a lot of the right wing radical memes, revisionist history, etc. They were very unfamiliar to us. I suppose many of us looked the other way on some issues too. I suppose the first hints I picked up was the hatred of atheists. I was here for years before I openly admitted I was an atheist.

108 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:59:16pm

re: #103 recusancy

It's part of having taken sides with the wrong crowd at one point. Sen Byrd still has the albatross of the KKK around his neck even though he left and denounced them a half century ago.

It's not fair and I'm really sick of it.

109 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 2:59:19pm

re: #105 beekiller
I am happy to see you back here. I still remember that "Arabic Rice" recipe fiasco. That was funny.

110 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:13pm

re: #95 austin_blue

Remember the Israeli "Transfer!" crowd? Jeez. The whole idea of Jews advocating ethnic cleansing was nuts to me.

That was a wake-up call. Another one, at least for me, was when people I had once regarded as sane started talking about Shariah law and Islamic government as though they were serious possibilities in the United States. As we have seen, the latter idea has spread like a contagious disease on the right.

111 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:21pm

re: #83 kirkspencer

As a digression, I made a wordcloud of the manifesto on wordle. You can see it here.

Excellent!

112 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:00:30pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

they were none to pleased with my nic back then

113 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:02:32pm

re: #109 PhillyPretzel

I am happy to see you back here. I still remember that "Arabic Rice" recipe fiasco. That was funny.

lol Thanks. How have you been all these months? I hope life is good.

114 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:02:32pm

re: #112 SpaceJesus

Back when I haven't registered yet, but read the comments, I remember how your karma switched from neg to pos and that was discussed ;)

115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:03:36pm

re: #11 Gus 802

I came across that screed this morning and couldn't believe my eyes. It's such a pathological mess with almost all of the extremist memes. The racism is blatant as is the hatred and paranoia. Such as this one:

Yeah but a lot of the race-butthurt bullshit in the manifesto differs little from teabagger sentiment. E.g., Europe is socialist and thus weak, Europe is weak because they turned from xianity, Europe is full of f^gs and muslims and n*****s, Liberals/f^gs/atheists/Muslims/n*****s in the US are trying to turn the US into Europe....these are really really really old anti-commie, John Birch Society memes.

Looks like the butthurt jerk in Norway fell for a US export of bigotry. It won't be the first time, either.

116 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:03:51pm

re: #113 beekiller
I am okay. Things are moving along s l o w l y. /

117 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:03:53pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

Terrorism as we know it today perpetrated by radical Islamists is not something that has always existed. This offensive has increased dramatically thanks in large part to Islamist like Qutb in Egypt and Azzam in Afghanistan, and with the financial assistance of Saudi Arabia. We are constantly calling for the Muslim world to address this cancer within precisely because it is so effective.

Allow me to point out that their "struggle" is seen by the Islamists in almost exactly the same way the counter-Jihadists see theirs—as a righteous, noble defense against encroaching foreign culture & value systems that threaten to destroy their way of life. This counter-jihad is literally jihad in-kind mirror movement.

Anyone who thinks that Westerners (or Western culture) will indefinitely remain immune to a well-orchestrated and well-funded pan-Western campaign of the sort that that was worked so well for the jihadists is sticking their head in the sand, IMO. You, as a behaviorist, should be more aware of this than most.

Our government is concerned about right-wing terrorism for good reason. All cultures may not be equal, but all cultures are made up of human beings who are susceptible to persuasion under the right circumstances. To think that this is "only a trigger" for those who are already "insane" and that the rest of us are somehow immune & above it all is pure folly.

History has proven this. THIS BLOG has proven this. How many people here—people I consider to be decent & rational—have I seen admit to thinking pretty awful things in the aftermath of 9/11? Why did Charles back away from the far-right? Because it is a clear & present danger.


I agree with you 100%.

But (big but) you are presenting only a part of the story. Radical Islamism would not have taken hold in the way it did if the regimes in the Middle East were not corrupt and failed. The regimes had a lot to do with the creation of the Islamists both before and after the region 'turned to religion'.

Certainly Daoud Qutb preceded the outward Saudi Wahhabi efforts. In fact, they funded the MB precisely because they were successful. They knew and understood they could cultivate an entire society that was so dysfunctional they could pose no threat or danger to the regions regimes (recall too, the Arab League exists only to maintain the status quo There has not been a single AL economic, educational or political effort that has benefited the ummah in any way, shape or form).

Obviously, ideologues preach t a choir, but ultimately, those whose go to the extreme are very few in number. Out of the millions in the Middle East, only a few hundred (if that) have become suicide bombers- and they were usually taken away from their families and manipulated. There is a reason there have been so many developmentally disabled children employed as suicide bombers. Why so few, overall? Because people inherently understand the nature of evil and there is nothing any of these imams can do to change that. They cannot take decent people (no matter how hard they try and turn them into evil people. As you are aware, I know this first hand).

A decent, healthy person will not allow himself to become evil.

Period.

118 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:03:54pm

re: #112 SpaceJesus

they were none to pleased with my nic back then

I got many calls to ban you, you freak.

119 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:00pm

re: #114 Sergey Romanov

Back when I haven't registered yet, but read the comments, I remember how your karma switched from neg to pos and that was discussed ;)

His karma got a big boost with the Great Creationist Flounce.

120 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:37pm

re: #119 Shiplord Kirel

His karma got a big boost with the Great Creationist Flounce.

SJ didn't leave the Crazy, the Crazy left him.

121 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:06:42pm

re: #118 Charles

I got many calls to ban you, you freak.

Glad you did not.

122 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:07:41pm

re: #98 jaunte

Geller is still at work tagging anything conceivable as creeping sharia.


So does this mean that allowing Christian pharmacists to not sell birth control pills is also sharia?

If it's okay to do one, it sure seems like it should be okay to do the other.

123 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:08:09pm
124 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:09:56pm

re: #112 SpaceJesus

they were none to pleased with my nic back then


Would be an epic hit.

Image: 20090624120658!Ban_Hammer.jpg

/

125 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:10:27pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

...paragraphs of wisdom...

Well said.

re: #83 kirkspencer

As a digression, I made a wordcloud of the manifesto on wordle. You can see it here.

Fascinating--also a little creepy just because of what pops out...it's a weird thing to give a viasual representation to person's worldview. Make me thinks about what my cloud might look like (Given the jag I've been on, I suspect the words authoritariansim, culture, and bullshit would dominate the visual plain).

Thanks for making and posting it.

Storm's coming. BBL.

126 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:10:49pm

re: #114 Sergey Romanov

i wonder who holds the record for most downdings in a single post. i must have been close.

127 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:11:18pm

re: #126 SpaceJesus

i wonder who holds the record for most downdings in a single post. i must have been close.

Still Annefrance, iirc.

128 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:11:23pm

re: #109 PhillyPretzel

I am missing something.

Can you explain, the story must be great.

129 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:11:38pm

re: #126 SpaceJesus

i wonder who holds the record for most downdings in a single post. i must have been close.

I thought that was what's her face with "167 IQ" points.

130 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:12:03pm

re: #126 SpaceJesus

Some anti-Palin comment got -300 something IIRC.

131 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:12:55pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

Yeah, that.

132 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:13:17pm

re: #130 Sergey Romanov


holy shit. i think the most i ever got was like -50 for making fun of palin or joe the plumber, can't remember which

133 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:13:52pm

re: #100 Varek Raith

ROFL

‘Haboob’ Hubbub: Arizonans Protest Common Meteorological Term As Evidence Of Muslim Infiltration


I look forward to the replacement of the term "algebra" with "freedom mathematics."

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:13:56pm

re: #132 SpaceJesus

LOSER!!1//

135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:14:13pm

Do a lot of people write Manifestos? Really?

136 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:14:52pm

While Breivik quotes many sources there's a highly consistent theme of white nationalism vs. communism/other races. The main people pushing that who he references in the US are Buchanan/Lind & crowd, and the familiar hate bloggers most lizards know and oppose. We all know where they got their credo however, and it's really leftovers of the war of the red and the black in Europe. (Bardeche, Benoist, Dillen, LePen, etc.)

137 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:14:54pm

re: #133 BongCrodny

These idiots won't get anywhere.

Also, to be blunt, they are old and dying.

138 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:16:30pm

re: #83 kirkspencer

As a digression, I made a wordcloud of the manifesto on wordle. You can see it here.

Have you removed Fjordman's essays beforehand, which are like half of the book?

139 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:16:32pm

re: #135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do a lot of people write Manifestos? Really?

I just want to write a couple novels and post them on Lulu.com before I die. Researching these in my spare time is a bitch.

140 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:17:04pm

re: #128 ProLifeLiberal
It was beekiller's story of how a recipe went very wrong. If I recall it involved 3 tablespoons of garlic, cinnamon and allspice. Those ingredients plus ground beef and some rice made one stink (literally according to beekiller) of a mess.

141 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:17:15pm

I started posting here in 2001. For several years, posting was open and almost anything went. Crazies posted at a ferocious rate, and were shouted down just as quickly. When registration was instituted in 2004, many of the established crazies were able to sign on and stick around. It took a while, and a change in focus, to flush them out.

Beyond that, some of the major crazy issues, creationism for example, were not issues here in the early days. The subject rarely came up and I had no idea so many of our posters adhered to this particular superstition until Charles started to address it directly. The position he expressed was not new to him, it just hadn't been part of the focus here. It had long been a prominent issue on the right (since there are essentially no left-wing creationists), but the complete creationist take-over of the GOP wasn't really evident until the 2008 election. We quickly found ourselves in a position where it was nearly impossible to defend science and reason without an open split with the Republican Party and with what passes for the conservative movement these days.

142 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:17:34pm

re: #130 Sergey Romanov

Some anti-Palin comment got -300 something IIRC.


People were really touchy about her back then, weren't they?

143 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:18:30pm

re: #6 Gus 802

Thanks Charles. Of course now I have to go into hiding and hire six body guards. Maybe not.

No, you'll just be called a "Peronist Progressive" again by the 103rd Parents' Basement Brigade (The Butthurt Bastards).

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:18:55pm

re: #142 BongCrodny

I believe it was something to do with her baby, so that increased the count.

145 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:19:06pm

re: #135 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Do a lot of people write Manifestos? Really?

The Frogs Shall Inherit the Earth
My blueprint for the destruction of mankind

By Killgore Trout

146 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:19:38pm

re: #144 Sergey Romanov

It was basically eugenics, saying she should have aborted her retarded fetus.

Distasteful, to say the least.

147 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:20:03pm

re: #142 BongCrodny

People were really touchy about her back then, weren't they?

Hell, I supported her at one time. Till I saw the stupid she was posting and the unapologetic behavior such as the cross hairs. We all make mistakes.

148 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:20:05pm

re: #142 BongCrodny

I think it was partly the eugenicist sentiment expressed.

149 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:20:08pm

re: #31 beekiller

I flicked through his manifesto but there's no way I'm ever ploughing my way through all 1500 pages of the stupid bastard's thoughtwank. PZ Myers on Pharyngula had some interesting extracts though. Basically he refers to his 'missions' as if he's in a computer game and there's a few paragraphs of the usual male wingnut rhetoric about banning contraception and abortion for white women. And discouraging them from pursuing higher education so they can stay home and repopulate Europe with white babies to compete against the Muslim hordes.

I Hate Norwegian Nazis!

(Sorry, I had to say it.)

150 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:20:47pm

re: #146 Obdicut

It was basically eugenics, saying she should have aborted her retarded fetus.

Distasteful, to say the least.

I'd like to think such a remark would still rate of tsunami of downdings here.

151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:20:48pm

re: #32 Mark Winter

This is far more serious. The Norwegian killer forces us to look at the most hateful fundamentalist "Christian", anti-Muslim, anti-immigrant, anti-integration rhetoric. It's filth but we must deal with it.

Agree. Been doing it for many, many, many years, with limited results, myself.

One small nitpick, which is bound to turn into a bigger one as the days press on: the reason people are labeling Breivik a "fundamentalist Christian" is because the initial reports of his capture did.

But this is a misnomer. Generally, people take it to mean Fundamtentalist Christian or Evangelical Christian, or any kind of fervent Christian belief, even though this also misconstrues the word. This is something we sticklers just have to live with. But least in the manifesto, there is no indication of anything even remotely "fundamentalist" or Evangelical. Brevik thinks he is some kind of Knights Templar.

Why this is important: the *actual* "fundamentalist Christians", e.g. Independent Fundamental Baptist, Orthodox Presbyterians, etc have a legitimate beef when being lumped in with a person like this, whether inadvertently or by mistake. It also has the potential for taking a magnifying glass to the wrong people. That easily 1- turns into witchhunting, and 2- never catches the perps.

You won't find any stronger critic of politically conservative Christianity than moi. But to catch the dirtbags, we've got to know what we're talking about.

152 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:21:12pm

re: #114 Sergey Romanov

Back when I haven't registered yet, but read the comments, I remember how your karma switched from neg to pos and that was discussed ;)

Space Jesus was the blog's godly thermometer.

153 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:21:31pm

re: #117 researchok

But (big but) you are presenting only a part of the story. Radical Islamism would not have taken hold in the way it did if the regimes in the Middle East were not corrupt and failed. The regimes had a lot to do with the creation of the Islamists both before and after the region 'turned to religion'.

There is a sizable percentage of our own population that sees our government as a corrupt and failing regime, as the comments at any right wing blog and the popularity of Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. will show. There are people working on the same narrative in Europe. I have no empirical evidence, but I'm pretty sure a government doesn't have to to actually be corrupt & failing motivate people, it just has to be perceived to be so.

A decent, healthy person will not allow himself to become evil.

Period.

Define "healthy", please.

And while you're at it, please explain how we prevent the message of the counter-jihadists from reaching those who are "unhealthy" and therefore, buy your own definition, prone to allowing themselves to become evil.

154 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:22:28pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

I Hate Norwegian Nazis!

(Sorry, I had to say it.)

I had to post it.

155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:22:37pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

Someone has more than one composition book full of margin to margin writing... have them evaluated.

Turn in your friends!

156 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:23:04pm

re: #138 Sergey Romanov

Have you removed Fjordman's essays beforehand, which are like half of the book?

Nope. That's the whole thing, saved as text (which drops pictures and a couple of graphics).

Note that dropping other people's essays won't ensure you get just his words. There's the section where he plagiarizes some ten pages or so of Kaczynski's manifesto. There are the numerous places he forgets to attribute even though it's someone else's essay. In simple, the only things I'm /sure/ are his own words is the section of his daily march to the murder spree, and the introductions.

That said, these are the words he took as his own, as his explanation of why. I submit that even though they aren't his originally, he has decided to own them in their entirety.

157 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:23:48pm

re: #155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian


Turn in your friends!


Especially if they have tons of fertilizer but no vegetables.

158 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:24:22pm

re: #142 BongCrodny

People were really touchy about her back then, weren't they?

Annefrance argued that Palin was wrong for carrying her youngest son to term as she knew he'd have Down's Syndrome. In her mind, Palin was being "socially irresponsible" for living up to her beliefs and loving her child. It was a very ugly post and richly deserved the pile-on it received.

159 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:24:52pm

re: #140 PhillyPretzel

It was beekiller's story of how a recipe went very wrong. If I recall it involved 3 tablespoons of garlic, cinnamon and allspice. Those ingredients plus ground beef and some rice made one stink (literally according to beekiller) of a mess.

How weird that I can't back track my own comments. I was going to link my story.

160 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:25:26pm

re: #93 ProLifeLiberal

Now, the question is whether we can somehow force publications to drop her.

The Nation probably will rather quickly when notified of her dealings.

If anything The Nation must be persuaded to dump stupid Mondoweiss. I won't subscribe to them since they started carrying that shyt.

BTW, which journalist do you mean (I wasn't here earlier for the conversation)?

161 BongCrodny  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:25:34pm

re: #147 Idle Drifter

Hell, I supported her at one time. Till I saw the stupid she was posting and the unapologetic behavior such as the cross hairs. We all make mistakes.


I was a John Edwards supporter at one time.

I take second place to no one when it comes to making mistakes.

162 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:25:37pm
163 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:26:12pm

re: #159 beekiller
I still have a printed copy. I am not a fast typist but I can enter it into the blog.

164 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:26:55pm

re: #151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Agree. Been doing it for many, many, many years, with limited results, myself.

One small nitpick, which is bound to turn into a bigger one as the days press on: the reason people are labeling Breivik a "fundamentalist Christian" is because the initial reports of his capture did.

But this is a misnomer. Generally, people take it to mean Fundamtentalist Christian or Evangelical Christian, or any kind of fervent Christian belief, even though this also misconstrues the word. This is something we sticklers just have to live with. But least in the manifesto, there is no indication of anything even remotely "fundamentalist" or Evangelical. Brevik thinks he is some kind of Knights Templar.

Why this is important: the *actual* "fundamentalist Christians", e.g. Independent Fundamental Baptist, Orthodox Presbyterians, etc have a legitimate beef when being lumped in with a person like this, whether inadvertently or by mistake. It also has the potential for taking a magnifying glass to the wrong people. That easily 1- turns into witchhunting, and 2- never catches the perps.

You won't find any stronger critic of politically conservative Christianity than moi. But to catch the dirtbags, we've got to know what we're talking about.

We need Oslogin or another Norwegian speaker to go over the origins of the word translated as "fundamentalist". In one sense fundamental and radical have related meanings.

165 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:27:28pm

re: #132 SpaceJesus

holy shit. i think the most i ever got was like -50 for making fun of palin or joe the plumber, can't remember which

haha, such an outrage.

166 blueraven  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:27:51pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

The Frogs Shall Inherit the Earth
My blueprint for the destruction of mankind

By Killgore Trout

I got ya covered here in TX. Ribbit!

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:28:03pm

re: #161 BongCrodny

I was a John Edwards supporter at one time.

I take second place to no one when it comes to making mistakes.

Same here, although I would have gladly voted for Hillary as I did Barack, had she gotten the nomination. Republicans are out of the question, period.

168 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:28:41pm

re: #166 blueraven

I got ya covered here in TX. Ribbit!

The Frogs Templar!

169 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:11pm

re: #156 kirkspencer

Nope. That's the whole thing, saved as text (which drops pictures and a couple of graphics).

Note that dropping other people's essays won't ensure you get just his words. There's the section where he plagiarizes some ten pages or so of Kaczynski's manifesto. There are the numerous places he forgets to attribute even though it's someone else's essay. In simple, the only things I'm /sure/ are his own words is the section of his daily march to the murder spree, and the introductions.

That said, these are the words he took as his own, as his explanation of why. I submit that even though they aren't his originally, he has decided to own them in their entirety.

Yes-- he wasn't doing literary criticism.

170 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:29:22pm

re: #168 Killgore Trout

The Frogs Templar!

Let them eat cake kale!

//

171 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:31:02pm

re: #163 PhillyPretzel

I still have a printed copy. I am not a fast typist but I can enter it into the blog.

You saved it? I'm glad it made you laugh enough to save it.

172 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:32:18pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

haha, such an outrage.

People sometimes get outraged about the simplest things even to date. But I have noticed that over the years the overall bottom 10 comments don't get the numbers like they used to. It's rare to see anything reaching -50. I know myself I decided not to down ding as much if at all except for maybe trolling strangers that come out of nowhere. There's a different dynamic going on here today.

173 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:33:02pm

Yes I did. Now please give me a few minutes to type up the funny incident

174 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:33:27pm

re: #164 Decatur Deb

We need Oslogin or another Norwegian speaker to go over the origins of the word translated as "fundamentalist". In one sense fundamental and radical have related meanings.

That would be good. But to my mind, not necessary. The big-name press repeated misinformation out of laziness and expediency, afaic (don't get me wrong, I'm not pretending this is a first by any means.)

Now, we have a bunch of people repeating he is a "fundamentalist Christian".

175 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:33:58pm

Away from the blog for a few minutes.

176 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:34:28pm

bbiab

177 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:34:59pm

re: #162 Killgore Trout

Leaders fear D.C. trust deficit, dysfunction will go global

Fuck, I'm getting nervous.

So the critical question is "Can two career politicians trust each other?" If that's the question our future turns on, we're history.

178 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:36:07pm

re: #10 researchok

The right wing noise was the delivery vehicle for his already existing insanity.

Speculation. I could just as easily say the rw noise machine is what made him insane.

But we don't even know if he's insane. We do know he's rw, though.

179 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:36:15pm

Whew. Kind of hot here today. I need a pool and a waterproof laptop.

//

180 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:37:59pm

re: #160 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It was two or three posts back.

Abigail R. Esman

She smeared (and is continuing) Charles. She's now saying no one is ideologically responsible, because he also linked to Wikipedia and the BBC.

She's trying to protect her anti-Islam friends.

181 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:38:14pm

re: #179 Gus 802

Whew. Kind of hot here today. I need a pool and a waterproof laptop.

//

Same here. I have both ACs running and I'm still sweating. Time to take a break. BBL.

182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:38:51pm

re: #132 SpaceJesus

holy shit. i think the most i ever got was like -50 for making fun of palin or joe the plumber, can't remember which

You are a sexist if you made fun of Palin's accent or hairstyle.

All these newly-minted rightwing sexism-chasers crack me up.

183 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:40:08pm

re: #180 ProLifeLiberal

It was two or three posts back.

Abigail R. Esman

She smeared (and is continuing) Charles. She's now saying no one is ideologically responsible, because he also linked to Wikipedia and the BBC.

She's trying to protect her anti-Islam friends.

He could link to 40 different sources one time, and I doubt anyone would hold them responsible; but linking to one source 40 times? That's a pretty solid indicator.

184 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:40:59pm

re: #180 ProLifeLiberal

It was two or three posts back.

Abigail R. Esman

She smeared (and is continuing) Charles. She's now saying no one is ideologically responsible, because he also linked to Wikipedia and the BBC.

She's trying to protect her anti-Islam friends.

So she's moving the goalposts against her initial thoughts. Weird.

185 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:42:01pm

It's 101 here in the Hub of the Plains Dunes, Lubbock. We have had no measurable precipitation since May 12. We already have a record for days over 100, with two months of hot weather left. My little farm is a bust, unless there is a market for mummified careless weeds.

186 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:42:54pm

re: #180 ProLifeLiberal

It was two or three posts back.

Abigail R. Esman

She smeared (and is continuing) Charles. She's now saying no one is ideologically responsible, because he also linked to Wikipedia and the BBC.

She's trying to protect her anti-Islam friends.

When all else fails, call in the Magical Balance Fairy.

187 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:43:02pm

re: #183 thedopefishlives

He could link to 40 different sources one time, and I doubt anyone would hold them responsible; but linking to one source 40 times? That's a pretty solid indicator.

And that's disregarding the content of his citations. The guy went from endorsing early LGF to quoting attacks on the current direction.

188 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:43:54pm

re: #180 ProLifeLiberal

It was two or three posts back.

Abigail R. Esman

She smeared (and is continuing) Charles. She's now saying no one is ideologically responsible, because he also linked to Wikipedia and the BBC.

She's trying to protect her anti-Islam friends.

Well, good for her. Then I suppose she'll also agree that radical Islamist rhetoric and literature aren't responsible for jihadi attacks either, right? ///

Gah. Okay, that's it. Over & out....

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:07pm

re: #180 ProLifeLiberal

It was two or three posts back.

Abigail R. Esman

She smeared (and is continuing) Charles. She's now saying no one is ideologically responsible, because he also linked to Wikipedia and the BBC.

She's trying to protect her anti-Islam friends.

Yeah, I see what's coming down the pike after Brevik: a distinction between "counter-jihad bigots" and "I'm merely being critical of Islam".

I bet some of her best friends are Muslims, too.

Plus ça change...

190 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:44:39pm

re: #183 thedopefishlives

She never mentions numbers of links various people get.

Wikipedia, on the other hand, is far more accurate in its attribution of ideology.

Breivik is an avid supporter of anti-Muslim activists such as Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer and Daniel Pipes.

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:45:18pm

re: #183 thedopefishlives

The point is not the links as such. The links come from Fjordman's articles anyway.

He explicitly endorsed the whole company - Atlas, Spencer, Fjordman, etc. in his document.no comments.

192 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:13pm

re: #191 Sergey Romanov

The point is not the links as such. The links come from Fjordman's articles anyway.

He explicitly endorsed the whole company - Atlas, Spencer, Fjordman, etc. in his document.no comments.

Oh, I know. I was just saying from the standpoint of her nitpicking about what got "linked" in the manifesto. He cited over 40 different Robert Spencer articles and 3 dozen Fjordman articles. I think that makes a considerable quantitative difference over "linking to Wikipedia and the BBC" - when such links probably came from the quotes he borrowed in the first place, to boot.

193 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:35pm

re: #185 Shiplord Kirel

It's 101 here in the Hub of the Plains Dunes, Lubbock. We have had no measurable precipitation since May 12. We already have a record for days over 100, with two months of hot weather left. My little farm is a bust, unless there is a market for mummified careless weeds.

It is currently 105 in town right now. It's our fortieth day at or greater than 100. No change in the forecast for the next week. Brutal.

194 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:48:43pm

re: #190 ProLifeLiberal

I would go as far as to praise Wikipedia for there handling of this. They have been able to stay on the facts, even though some people would want to whitewash.

Kudos to Wikipedia: It deserves a cookie.

195 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:49:48pm

OT: Here is the story of Beekiller's "Arabic Rice" Experiment. This past week has been Experimental Meal Week in the beekiller household. Last night’s meal was the straw that broke the experimental camel’s back. “Arabic Rice” read the recipe. The recipe sounded different. Ground beef, garlic powder, allspice, cinnamon, rice, beef bouillon and water. Simple, yet different. It was not until I started making it that I realized something was horribly wrong.
THREE TABLESPOONS of garlic powder.
I love me some garlic. But three tablespoons in any dish and you’re asking for trouble.
THREE TALBESPOONS of cinnamon.
I don’t know about you. But when I eat my hamburger, I don’t normally coat it in cinnamon.
THREE TABLESPOONS of allspice.
It stunk the house up like a camel’s ass. We sat down to eat it. We both took a bite. And then we put the entire skillet full of Arabic Rice and the contents of our bowls in the garbage disposal. My GOD that was some nasty shit. At least I know what to expect when I bite into a taco. I know it won’t taste like I’m tonguing a burro’s ass, that’s for sure.

196 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:49:54pm

The beach was beautiful...crowded (but it feels like it's in the high 70s with no wind and full sun, so that's understandable). Dogs had a good time Now they're napping instead of hassling me for a walk.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:50:08pm

re: #192 thedopefishlives

Wiki and BBC are general reference resources. Spencer and Fjordman are highly specialized resources. If she does argue that they're the same, she's a moron.

198 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:50:34pm

re: #190 ProLifeLiberal

She never mentions numbers of links various people get.

Wikipedia, on the other hand, is far more accurate in its attribution of ideology.

Yes but Wikipedia is more accurate only because it is ultimately controlled by sane people who care about the truth. I suspect sites where such rules are not the norm will come to embrace some lie to avoid blame. Either "He's a lone nut for which we cannot be blamed" or "It was a FALSE FLAG PLOT!!!1".

199 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:51:26pm

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Yes but Wikipedia is more accurate only because it is ultimately controlled by sane people who care about the truth. I suspect sites where such rules are not the norm will come to embrace some lie to avoid blame. Either "He's a lone nut for which we cannot be blamed" or "It was a FALSE FLAG PLOT!!!1".

From what I've seen, they're claiming both.

200 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:51:50pm

re: #193 austin_blue

It is currently 105 in town right now. It's our fortieth day at or greater than 100. No change in the forecast for the next week. Brutal.

It's down about 10 degrees here in Chicagoland from Thursday. From high 90's to high 80's. But we've had a huge amount of rain. The Des Plaines river is quite high right now.

201 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:53:12pm

re: #153 CuriousLurker

There is a sizable percentage of our own population that sees our government as a corrupt and failing regime, as the comments at any right wing blog and the popularity of Fox News, the Tea Party, etc. will show. There are people working on the same narrative in Europe. I have no empirical evidence, but I'm pretty sure a government doesn't have to to actually be corrupt & failing motivate people, it just has to be perceived to be so.

Define "healthy", please.

And while you're at it, please explain how we prevent the message of the counter-jihadists from reaching those who are "unhealthy" and therefore, buy your own definition, prone to allowing themselves to become evil.

First things first.

Why do you suppose all dysfunctional regimes have such huge state security apparatuses? Perhaps it is because they understand that given the cjance, people will abandon these regimes. No one really wants to be a part of the evil. That is as true of the Libyans, Tunisians and Egyptians as it was of the Poles, Czechs and East Germans.

Now, as to the right wing rhetoric.

Nutjobs are nut jobs. No one has a monopoly, not the right, left, Christians, Jews, Muslims or Hindus.

The right aren't the only ones who speak in apocalyptic terms. Remember George Bush's FEMA concentration camps? Recall how many were sure he would declare martial law in a matter of days? There are an equally sizable group of people on the left who share the same 'government is corrupt' ideas.

Nevertheless, the government here is a far cry from the governments of repressive regimes.

Also, who decides what are and are not acceptable ideologies?

If the right here is not acceptable, why should Hamas or the PA be accorded any credibility. Their politics are not exactly unknown (I use them for illustrative purposes only). Why should Merkel and Sarkozy be considered legitimate leaders?

We have seen ideological swings throughout history. That won't change. Freedom is the key. Democracies do not wage war on each other.

Most people inherently want freedom. many will fight for freedom. Very, very few will commit deliberate acts of terror against innocents for freedom.

Terror is not brought on by poverty or by an influx of immigrants. Children are not shot because of multiculturalism and bombs are not planted because of an economic malaise. Planes aren’t flown into buildings so as to air political grievances.

All these things happen on the right and left because there are groups and individuals who want to seize and assert power.

They are fighting against the very things real people yearn for- real freedom. They don't want to see religious freedoms, abortion rights, gay rights or universal human rights because those things are lessen control over populations.m This is true of any ideologies that are repressive, left or right. Those ideologies demand the marginalization (or worse) of those whose behavior they find offensive- usually administred in a cruel and brutal fashion.

People are inherently good. There are those who will go to great lengths to manipulate and change that but when all is said and done, people will reject evil.

Only values, born of dignity and the recognition that all men and women are of equal value, determines morality and codes of conduct. It is an ideology that drives people to exceed their potential for good.

202 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:53:37pm

re: #197 Sergey Romanov

She was. I saw here comments trying to defend her self and attack Charles, as well as talking to her defenders.

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Remember though, Wikipedia can be modified easily. The fact they have been able to keep that up since it came out is impressive.

re: #195 PhillyPretzel

I burned soup once. Put it on the stove, went to the computer, 10 minutes later, I had a problem.

Happened Sophomore Year of College.

203 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:54:17pm

re: #179 Gus 802

Whew. Kind of hot here today. I need a pool and a waterproof laptop.

//

Kiddie pools work when necessary.

204 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:55:11pm

re: #202 ProLifeLiberal

I have had a few failed experiments myself. The garbage disposal has a good meal on those evenings.

205 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:56:21pm

re: #182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You are a sexist if you made fun of Palin's accent or hairstyle.

All these newly-minted rightwing sexism-chasers crack me up.

Ditto.

206 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:56:52pm

re: #204 PhillyPretzel

I have had a few failed experiments myself. The garbage disposal has a good meal on those evenings.

I always had to laugh, when I was in college, living in an all-guy dorm. It's amazing the kinds of kitchen accidents that go on when "manly men" who haven't bothered to receive proper instruction from their mothers try to do something as simple as cook ramen.

207 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:57:32pm

From BBC:

Mr Sponheim confirmed that the maximum time Mr Breivik could face in prison under Norwegian law is 21 years.

I hope he finishes his sentence prematurely. If you know what I mean.

208 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:58:09pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

It's down about 10 degrees here in Chicagoland from Thursday. From high 90's to high 80's. But we've had a huge amount of rain. The Des Plaines river is quite high right now.

Don't mock us, you Illinoisan, you!

Normal inflow from the Colorado River into Lake Travis for May and June: 376,000 acre feet.

This year: 12,700 acre feet.

Deficit since Jan1st is greater than 650,000 acre feet.

209 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:58:15pm

re: #207 laZardo

Wait, what about forvaring?

210 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:58:19pm

re: #206 thedopefishlives

I always had to laugh, when I was in college, living in an all-guy dorm. It's amazing the kinds of kitchen accidents that go on when "manly men" who haven't bothered to receive proper instruction from their mothers try to do something as simple as cook ramen.

I can cook ramen on a side walk or pool deck with no fire. And make it better than expected.

211 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:58:21pm

re: #206 thedopefishlives
That is why I rely on Cooks Illustrated Magazine. They test those recipies before they publish them.

212 Bulworth  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 3:59:31pm
We must get rid of Feminism, which is destructive and merely an extension of Marxism, anyway.

I am shocked, shocked I say, to discover that this guy hated women.

//

Seriously, it's pretty amazing how similar the jihadists and the "counter-jihadists" are on many points, particularly the rights of women. That must be why they hate each other so much--they're very much alike.

213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:00:06pm

re: #193 austin_blue

It is currently 105 in town right now. It's our fortieth day at or greater than 100. No change in the forecast for the next week. Brutal.

May your compressor compress.
May your coil cool.
May your blower blow conditioned air.

For this purpose? I'll call it the Prayer of St. Nicholas

214 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:00:25pm

anybody else see this editorial in the jerusalem post?


[Link: www.jpost.com...]

215 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:01:11pm

If there's anybody from Dkos here, you should correct the author of this page:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

He thinks the Fjordman quotes are Breivik quotes. Although at least he doesn't blame LGF.

216 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:01:35pm

re: #211 PhillyPretzel

That is why I rely on Cooks Illustrated Magazine. They test those recipies before they publish them.

My mom wanted to ensure that I could survive on my own without a woman for a while, if need be. So I learned from an early age how to wash and fold laundry, how to do my own dishes, and how to follow a recipe. It's not rocket science.

217 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:02:09pm

re: #201 researchok

First things first.

Why do you suppose all dysfunctional regimes have such huge state security apparatuses? Perhaps it is because they understand that given the cjance, people will abandon these regimes. No one really wants to be a part of the evil. That is as true of the Libyans, Tunisians and Egyptians as it was of the Poles, Czechs and East Germans.

"States rights" ex-slavery governments, too.

Outside of Iran, the dysfunctional ME regiemes were also propped up by the West.

There are an equally sizable group of people on the left who share the same 'government is corrupt' ideas.

MBF. There aren't any state, local or national-level lawmakers from the left who spout that kind of rhetoric. Not so for one party of two. That wing is currently ruddering that party, btw.

People are inherently good.

...

Only values, born of dignity and the recognition that all men and women are of equal value, determines morality and codes of conduct. It is an ideology that drives people to exceed their potential for good.

To my mind, these statements contradict each other. Good people don't need state-sponsored repression of others. Yet the average social/cultural conservative cries oppression when they're not allowed to use government in that way. They're not good people, they are bigots and perps with dhimmitude mentality.

218 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:02:25pm

re: #214 SpaceJesus

Wow....I'll never listen to the JPost again. They just did an underhanded condoning of the attack.

219 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:02:44pm

In Scouts, boys can get the cooking merit badge. A lot of scouting is about how to make things cushy for yourself when mommy isn't around.

220 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:02:48pm

re: #195 PhillyPretzel

OT: Here is the story of Beekiller's "Arabic Rice" Experiment. This past week has been Experimental Meal Week in the beekiller household. Last night’s meal was the straw that broke the experimental camel’s back. “Arabic Rice” read the recipe. The recipe sounded different. Ground beef, garlic powder, allspice, cinnamon, rice, beef bouillon and water. Simple, yet different. It was not until I started making it that I realized something was horribly wrong.
THREE TABLESPOONS of garlic powder.
I love me some garlic. But three tablespoons in any dish and you’re asking for trouble.
THREE TALBESPOONS of cinnamon.
I don’t know about you. But when I eat my hamburger, I don’t normally coat it in cinnamon.
THREE TABLESPOONS of allspice.
It stunk the house up like a camel’s ass. We sat down to eat it. We both took a bite. And then we put the entire skillet full of Arabic Rice and the contents of our bowls in the garbage disposal. My GOD that was some nasty shit. At least I know what to expect when I bite into a taco. I know it won’t taste like I’m tonguing a burro’s ass, that’s for sure.

lol Thanks you for posting that. I don't have the wife anymore but I do have the memories of our daily fiasco's.

221 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:02:58pm

re: #215 Sergey Romanov

If there's anybody from Dkos here, you should correct the author of this page:
[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

He thinks the Fjordman quotes are Breivik quotes. Although at least he doesn't blame LGF.

Hey, Charles gets a shout-out!

He also praises Pam Geller (Atlas Shrugs blog) and her Eurofascist cronies, and he spends a couple pages attacking Charles Johnson (Little Green Footballs) for calling the Pam's cronies "Fascists." Anders says Charles Johnson should be killed. I guess nothing says "I am NOT a Fascist" like killing people who call you a "fascist."

Sorry...death threats aside, that's pretty fucking funny.

222 Mark Pennington  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:03:37pm

re: #220 beekiller

lol Thanks you for posting that. I don't have the wife anymore but I do have the memories of our daily fiasco's.

PIMF Thank you.

223 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:04:05pm

re: #215 Sergey Romanov

The way you explained the manifesto, I think his mistake is understandable.

224 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:04:16pm

re: #221 darthstar

Ah, darth, I was hoping you would see. The problem is that the author is getting it wrong, there were no death threats and it's Fjordman writing.

225 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:04:33pm

re: #218 ProLifeLiberal

JPost just came out of my bookmarks. I can't believe it.

226 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:04:50pm

re: #221 darthstar

Hey, Charles gets a shout-out!

Sorry...death threats aside, that's pretty fucking funny.

This quote from the diarist at dKos is funny too.

Yep, he wants to kill half of Europe, but his panties are in a bunch over Charles Johnson.

227 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:05:30pm

re: #222 beekiller
It is a very funny story.

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:05:45pm

re: #223 ProLifeLiberal

For those not familiar with the anti-Jihad scene it is forgivable, esp. as in several places attributions seem to be missing, as I've found out. Still, misinformation is misinformation.

229 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:05:55pm

re: #221 darthstar

The local bookstore had a basket full of topical bumper stickers & one said "Death to all Fanatics." Pretty funny, but it could be misunderstood, so I left it in the basket.

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:12pm

re: #216 thedopefishlives

So I learned from an early age how to wash and fold laundry, how to do my own dishes, and how to follow a recipe

I remember being so small, I had to stand on a chair to wash and dry dishes.

231 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:22pm

re: #208 austin_blue

Don't mock us, you Illinoisan, you!

Normal inflow from the Colorado River into Lake Travis for May and June: 376,000 acre feet.

This year: 12,700 acre feet.

Deficit since Jan1st is greater than 650,000 acre feet.

I mock nothing, I'm worried. If we have any lengthy storms tonight I'm going to be wading to work tomorrow. I've done that before, back in 2008, and I'd rather not do it again.

232 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:46pm

re: #218 ProLifeLiberal

I wouldn't say they are condoning it, but using it to attack the idea that different cultures should and can get along together is beyond the pale.

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:54pm

re: #214 SpaceJesus

I always wondered why they published someone as Carolyn Glick. I wonder no more.

234 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:06:56pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

I mock nothing, I'm worried. If we have any lengthy storms tonight I'm going to be wading to work tomorrow. I've done that before, back in 2008, and I'd rather not do it again.

Two words.
Boat.
...
..
.

235 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:06pm

re: #218 ProLifeLiberal

And the comments are horrific too. One said that since the Youth Party Meeting has been critical of Israel, it deserved to happen.

Holy shit.

236 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:06pm

re: #218 ProLifeLiberal

Wow...I'll never listen to the JPost again. They just did an underhanded condoning of the attack.

"I'm not condoning the mass murder of 100 people, I'm just being critical of multiculturalism!"

I blame the anti-Zionists for this bogus line of reasoning, myself.

Re: JPost, I figure it's like the WSJ used to be - decent source for reporting., but stay away from that editorials page.

237 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:07:55pm

re: #234 Varek Raith

Reminds me of the old Bill Cosby sketch.

"I only have one question: How long can you tread water?"

238 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:08:20pm

re: #225 SpaceJesus

JPost just came out of my bookmarks. I can't believe it.

I would say, this is all the more reason to keep reading it. I bet we are going to see a lot more people repeating this claptrap, just because JPost said it.

239 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:09:54pm

re: #238 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, maybe so. Keep an eye on it. Still, I can't believe that got ran.

240 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:10:15pm

re: #218 ProLifeLiberal

Wow...I'll never listen to the JPost again. They just did an underhanded condoning of the attack.

Well, multiculturalism is a failure. And it is a fact that its proponents will try to use this rampage to paint all opposition to it as tainted by this loon. So saying that:

Europe’s fringe right-wing extremists present a real danger to society. But Oslo’s devastating tragedy should not be allowed to be manipulated by those who would cover up the abject failure of multiculturalism.

is to me nothing more than a statement of fact.

241 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:10:49pm

Wikipedia does have some flaws though. for example, look at the top of this page.

This article may be affected by a current event. Information in this article may change rapidly as the event progresses.

No shit sherlock!

242 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:11:07pm

re: #235 ProLifeLiberal

And the comments are horrific too. One said that since the Youth Party Meeting has been critical of Israel, it deserved to happen.

Holy shit.

That sort of comment is in fact horrid, I agree.

243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:12:30pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Well, multiculturalism is a failure. And it is a fact that its proponents will try to use this rampage to paint all opposition to it as tainted by this loon. So saying that:

is to me nothing more than a statement of fact.

Yeah, but you're someone who thinks Arabs should be stopped from emigrating to the US.

So you're not a very good judge of the efficacy of "multiculturalism", whatever the hell "multiculturalism" is.

244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:14:43pm

re: #241 ProLifeLiberal

Wikipedia does have some flaws though. for example, look at the top of this page.

No shit sherlock!

There is also a little edit war going on at the Fjordman page. [Link: bit.ly...]

245 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:14:49pm

re: #243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Huh?

246 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:11pm

re: #235 ProLifeLiberal

Yeah, they sure are doing Israel a lot of good with that kind of statement.

I want to think they're trolls.

247 alpuz  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:15:55pm

re: #208 austin_blue

Hey, austin_blue. I used to live next to Lake Travis(about a half block from the water), and eventually in Lake Travis. After the last flood, we moved up north.

How low is the lake right now? Are any boat ramps open?

248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:16:58pm

re: #245 Varek Raith

Huh?

Huh, to what part?

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:17:03pm

re: #247 alpuz

Hey, austin_blue. I used to live next to Lake Travis(about a half block from the water), and eventually in Lake Travis. After the last flood, we moved up north.

How low is the lake right now? Are any boat ramps open?

Houseboat?

250 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:15pm

re: #248 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Huh, to what part?

First part. Links?

251 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:18:29pm

re: #243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, but you're someone who thinks Arabs should be stopped from emigrating to the US.

So you're not a very good judge of the efficacy of "multiculturalism", whatever the hell "multiculturalism" is.

All that means is that I've looked at the policy and found it faulty.

252 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:19:45pm

Geller's latest post is a real hoot.

Apparently, it was me refusing to be a Muslim-hating racist that caused Breivik to snap.

253 alpuz  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:20:28pm

re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nope... we flooded. There were fish in my garage/studio. It was a mess. The lake was at record lows at the time(I believe) and within a week the neighborhood was under water. Lake Travis can fill up fast.

254 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:21:14pm

re: #252 Charles

Geller's latest post is a real hoot.

Apparently, it was me refusing to be a Muslim-hating racist that caused Breivik to snap.

255 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:21:16pm

Now at GoV:

Welcome to readers of Dagbladet and Der Spiegel!

The latter publication, however, falsely labels us a “hate blog.” This is not true: we are a love blog; we are lovers of truth.
...
Note from this blog’s owners: Due to the unusual situation in which it has recently found itself, this blog will be closed to comments until further notice.

256 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:21:19pm

re: #250 Varek Raith

First part. Links?

No need, Varek, since I did post to that effect. PLL said that there would likely be a wave of Arab immigration, and I replied that said would-be migrants should not be allowed in.

257 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:22:05pm

re: #253 alpuz

Nope... we flooded. There were fish in my garage/studio. It was a mess. The lake was at record lows at the time(I believe) and within a week the neighborhood was under water. Lake Travis can fill up fast.

OK. You said you lived next to the water and then in the water. Wasn't sure.

258 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:22:40pm

re: #244 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I've got confidence that sanity will win on Wikipedia, and that the clown doing the edit war will get a ban.

259 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:22:54pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now at GoV:

That's just punk ass.

260 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:23:06pm

re: #250 Varek Raith

First part. Links?

LGF search is slow right now, but they are forthcoming. In the meantime, time's here, you can ask him himself.

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

All that means is that I've looked at the policy and found it faulty.

Goalpost shift. Your first statement was a statement of fact. Now you say it's your own finding.

What multiculturalism "policy" are you talking about that you looked at, and found faulty?

261 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:23:18pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Good, we are forcing them back.

These truth-hating bastards need to be called out.

262 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:24:11pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

All that means is that I've looked at the policy and found it faulty.

Last time I checked, multiculturalism meant different things to different people and is thus not a concrete "policy". In spite of what many people would have you believe, there are plenty of places in this world where different cultures co-exist without significant difficulties. I took great offense at what you wrote about who you would and wouldn't allow in this country. I can only be grateful that people more open minded than you allowed members of my family in this country when my ethnic group was far from popular.

263 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:24:45pm

re: #256 Dark_Falcon

No need, Varek, since I did post to that effect. PLL said that there would likely be a wave of Arab immigration, and I replied that said would-be migrants should not be allowed in.

You said a lot more than that about Arabs.

264 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:25:20pm

re: #252 Charles

Geller's latest post is a real hoot.

Apparently, it was me refusing to be a Muslim-hating racist that caused Breivik to snap.

lol...

But Breivik cites LGF numerous times, but in a very different way. He includes a long diatribe against Charles Johnson, whom he clearly admired until he felt betrayed enough to snap. The killer speaks about Charles Johnson obsessively and wrings his hands about Johnson's turn to the left. Could this perhaps have been the provocation? Could this have been what caused him to snap?


She's refering to Fjordman's essay that he used. You caused Fjordy to snap!

265 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:25:37pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That takes a pair of brass balls. Although I'd be far more impressed if he'd had the stones to keep comments open. That would've gotten interesting real fast.

266 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:27pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

Wanna know the truth, KT? I'm glad I really don't know who these fucking people are.

267 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:27:36pm

"We are a love blog!"

"Comments closed until further notice."

Oh ha haha ha. Help, I can't stop laughing at that one!

268 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:28:11pm

re: #252 Charles

Geller's latest post is a real hoot.

Apparently, it was me refusing to be a Muslim-hating racist that caused Breivik to snap.

Reality is calling. Apparently Geller is screening her phone.

269 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:28:24pm

re: #263 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And, really, how are the accusations against Arabs any different than those previously labeled on Catholics or Eastern Europeans?

To be honest, Arabs I now are more pleasant than many Oklahomans.

270 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:29:28pm

re: #269 ProLifeLiberal

And, really, how are the accusations against Arabs any different than those previously labeled on Catholics or Eastern Europeans?

To be honest, Arabs I now are more pleasant than many Oklahomans.

Some people just don't get it, never will. The same cries of "but they really are different this time!" will ring out.

271 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:29:37pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

All that means is that I've looked at the policy and found it faulty.

LOL, you can't even handle spicy foods.

272 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:30:59pm

re: #250 Varek Raith

First part. Links?

Starts in LGF Connect Becomes a Mini-Twitter Client, comment #351

#355 is classic Spencer/Geller/GoV/:

Things have changed enough and I simply do not trust the Arab world that far. If their hate is the price we must pay, then I'm ready to pay that price. Sorry PLL, but as long as there is large scale hate of America among Arabs, I cannot support large scale Arab immigration. It has worked well nowhere in Europe, and I cannot see it as a good idea.

I heard Herman Cain is hiring cabinet members. I think you should apply, DF.

273 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:31:35pm

re: #252 Charles

Geller's latest post is a real hoot.

Apparently, it was me refusing to be a Muslim-hating racist that caused Breivik to snap.

Charles, I think you should fisk her in a separate posting, because otherwise this Breivik-Fjordman confusion isn't going to go away any time soon.

274 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:32:22pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

Her post should be titled "extraordinarily stupid spin". What a riot.

275 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:32:39pm

re: #270 McSpiff

Some people just don't get it, never will. The same cries of "but they really are different this time!" will ring out.

Yes, they really are. They've had a steady diet of anti-US propaganda poured down their throats and their society and culture are alien to our nation and many of its values. And any large scale immigration right now would be a foolish mistake. We need to restrict immigration to reserve jobs for those already here.

276 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:11pm

re: #273 Sergey Romanov

Charles, I think you should fisk her in a separate posting, because otherwise this Breivik-Fjordman confusion isn't going to go away any time soon.

It's not going to go away even if he does post a thorough fisking. The vast unhinged will believe whatever makes them feel good, no matter if it happens to be the truth or not. All Charles can do is keep repeating, "Those are Fjordman's words, not mine, and I make no apology to anyone as I've done nothing wrong."

277 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:13pm

re: #271 goddamnedfrank

LOL, you can't even handle spicy foods.

That's true, but not really relevant.

278 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:33:56pm

Spencer is just completely ignoring his connections to the terrorist. He's just going along like nothing happened.

279 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:34:15pm

re: #270 McSpiff

And Egypt, a likely origin point, need to lose population. They are losing arable land because people are building cities and settlements on the river. They are over-populated.

In addition, with the recent fracturing of the Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt's future went from 'plausibly negative' to 'Only Allah himself only knows'

Of course, there are other nations (Morocco, Sryia, plausibly Iraq, and one other group), but this is a specific case.

280 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:34:54pm

re: #264 Killgore Trout

lol...


She's refering to Fjordman's essay that he used. You caused Fjordy to snap!

Breivik's been planning this shit for nine years as a goddamned marketing operation, but Charles's refusal to go along with the crowd is what made him finally do it?

I was joking yesterday about Pamela wearing Camelbak full of Bombay Saphire, but this is some seriously addled thinking.

281 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:01pm

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

May your compressor compress.
May your coil cool.
May your blower blow conditioned air.

For this purpose? I'll call it the Prayer of St. Nicholas

Amen, Brother!

282 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:01pm

I've been out and haven't read all this, but in the OP I couldn't help but stop on the bit about "Feminism".

WTF does Feminism (presumably meaning advancing women's rights) have to do with anti-Jihadism? Jihadism is also strongly against Feminism.

The more I read this stuff the more it seems identical to extreme Islamists chatter. They are just mirror images of each other.

283 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:09pm

re: #276 thedopefishlives

It's not going to go away even if he does post a thorough fisking. The vast unhinged will believe whatever makes them feel good, no matter if it happens to be the truth or not. All Charles can do is keep repeating, "Those are Fjordman's words, not mine, and I make no apology to anyone as I've done nothing wrong."

They almost have to lie. If they were to admit fault, then they would have rendered themselves politically irrelevant, since who would listen to someone whose ideas helped prime a physco for mass murder.

284 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:23pm

This place may have rid itself of the anti-muslimism but anti-arabism seems to still have a foothold.

285 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:35:28pm

re: #276 thedopefishlives

If this is an argument against doing the said fisking, it's a bad argument. We can as well stop commenting/writing and "go home", because no fanatic will be convinced anyway on any issue we write about.

It's not about fanatics.

286 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:36:21pm

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

Yes, they really are. They've had a steady diet of anti-US propaganda poured down their throats and their society and culture are alien to our nation and many of its values. And any large scale immigration right now would be a foolish mistake. We need to restrict immigration to reserve jobs for those already here.

Not to sound rude D_F, but I'm not going to waste my time discussing this with you. You're a good student of history. You know the types of claims that were made against the Irish/Catholics/Polish/Blacks. Either you see that trend repeating in your own post with Arabs or you don't.

287 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:36:21pm

re: #280 goddamnedfrank

Breivik's been planning this shit for nine years as a goddamned marketing operation, but Charles's refusal to go along with the crowd is what made him finally do it?

I was joking yesterday about Pamela wearing Camelbak full of Bombay Saphire, but this is some seriously addled thinking.

Camelbak is used here to mean a water-carrying system like the Army uses in Iraq, correct?

288 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:36:45pm

re: #284 recusancy

This place may have rid itself of the anti-muslimism but anti-arabism seems to still have a foothold.

But I'm ok, since I'm anti-everything-but-me.
/

289 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:04pm

re: #277 Dark_Falcon

That's true, but not really relevant.

Sure it is, you're incredibly white bread, the entire concept of multiculturalism constitutes an assault on your bland tastes and entrenched sensibilities.

290 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:09pm

re: #285 Sergey Romanov

The same argument, however, does extend to the non-clinically-insane. Everything that can be said to convince a sane and rational person that Charles isn't responsible, has already been said. It all comes down now to whether a person wants to understand the truth or not.

291 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:37:17pm

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

Yes, they really are. They've had a steady diet of anti-US propaganda poured down their throats and their society and culture are alien to our nation and many of its values. And any large scale immigration right now would be a foolish mistake. We need to restrict immigration to reserve jobs for those already here.

But that's not really a result of multiculturalism. Immigration is a result largely of economics. The USA doesn't have an open door policy (which is really not quiet true) in order to fill anything like a multicultural quota. It's done largely for economic reasons. Otherwise, jobs aren't lost here because of alleged lax immigration laws. Some are but they are by and large lost because of outsourcing and manufacturing facilities having moved outside of the USA. Again, it's because of economics. Even if you closed the door those jobs will never come back. It's a complicated mess we've created is about all I can add.

292 Winny Spencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:19pm

People that might be culpable according to Pam:
- Charles
- President Obama
- Islamic supremacists and "Euro-Med policy"

Not culpable:
- Herself and her ilk

293 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:21pm

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

Maybe about our politics, but with the exception of the fringe, many of our cultural exports are accepted.

And you can say the same of the Latin Americans, who have been given a whole lot of reasons to dislike us.

And doing this will make us less secure in the long run, as it will confirm to the population on the street that the extremists were right, and that the US hates Muslims. Which means more threats and attacks.

294 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:31pm

Jalapenos stuffed with cream cheese wrapped in sausage is just awesome.
Unhealthy, but awesome.

295 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:32pm

re: #287 Dark_Falcon

Camelbak is used here to mean a water-carrying system like the Army uses in Iraq, correct?

Lots of people use them, cyclists, adventure hikers, mountain climbers.

296 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:51pm

Now she's follow up with an article on sharia taking over cabs ... Mohan Singh is complaining about strip club ads. The problem with sharia and Mohan Singh is that both his surname and given name are Sikh names, not Muslim. She is as dim as they come.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:38:56pm

re: #290 thedopefishlives

Everything that can be said to convince a sane and rational person that Charles isn't responsible, has already been said.

Not really, and not loud enough.

298 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:40:41pm

re: #201 researchok

Why do you suppose all dysfunctional regimes have such huge state security apparatuses? Perhaps it is because they understand that given the cjance, people will abandon these regimes. No one really wants to be a part of the evil. That is as true of the Libyans, Tunisians and Egyptians as it was of the Poles, Czechs and East Germans.

This is obvious; not sure why you're telling me about it.

The right aren't the only ones who speak in apocalyptic terms. Remember George Bush's FEMA concentration camps? Recall how many were sure he would declare martial law in a matter of days? There are an equally sizable group of people on the left who share the same 'government is corrupt' ideas.

I never said the right was alone in speaking in apocalyptic terms. I hate summoning the MBF, so I'm not going to drag out all the examples of how different the current climate is WRT the right wingt as it's been well documented here and we're all aware of it.

Nevertheless, the government here is a far cry from the governments of repressive regimes.

So is the government in Norway, but that didn't stop ABB. Or McVeigh. I repeat: We are not immune. I never, ever want to see this happen again here. We need to pay attention to the red flags being waved in our faces.

Also, who decides what are and are not acceptable ideologies?

I believe you already answered that here:

Only values, born of dignity and the recognition that all men and women are of equal value, determines morality and codes of conduct. It is an ideology that drives people to exceed their potential for good.

And I agree with you 100%.

Terror is not brought on by poverty or by an influx of immigrants. Children are not shot because of multiculturalism and bombs are not planted because of an economic malaise. Planes aren’t flown into buildings so as to air political grievances.

All these things happen on the right and left because there are groups and individuals who want to seize and assert power.

That's right, and they do that by using an ideological bait & switch. They promise one thing an deliver another.

My point is that our government is currently very concerned about the far right, and I don't believe those concerns are motivated by political partisanship or hysteria, I think they're based on law enforcement intelligence & experience. If they're worried, then I'm worried, especially in light of this week's events.

299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:41:18pm

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

We need to restrict immigration to reserve jobs for those already here.

Straight out of California, circa a hundred years ago.

Anti-immigrant bigots haven't even bothered to change their rhetoric in 100 years. Only thing that's changed is the last name, eye shape, and traditional dress of the targets.

Oh yes, and the fonts.

Image: hb167n97jm-FID3.jpg

300 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:41:41pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

Spencer is just completely ignoring his connections to the terrorist. He's just going along like nothing happened.

What connection? The guy is a lone wolf.
/

301 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:42:24pm

re: #294 Varek Raith

Jalapenos stuffed with cream cheese wrapped in sausage is just awesome.
Unhealthy, but awesome.

Dipped in a remoulade sauce.Even better. And more unheathy-er.

302 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:42:30pm

re: #295 goddamnedfrank

Lots of people use them, cyclists, adventure hikers, mountain climbers.

I know. I just needed to make sure I understood your reference.

303 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:43:11pm

re: #275 Dark_Falcon

Yes, they really are. They've had a steady diet of anti-US propaganda poured down their throats and their society and culture are alien to our nation and many of its values. And any large scale immigration right now would be a foolish mistake. We need to restrict immigration to reserve jobs for those already here.

I don't know what you mean by large scale immigration, but immigrants have always been a major backbone of this country and most of those who come here do so because they admire it and want to get away from that crap at home. (Besides, native Americans don't know how to run small grocery stores and gas stations and motels anymore, but we need them).

One can argue criteria for immigrants like education and/or assets, and limits on relatives, but I believe we already have that in place.

The only immigration we need to restrict further is the illegal kind.

304 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:43:42pm

re: #293 ProLifeLiberal

Maybe about our politics, but with the exception of the fringe, many of our cultural exports are accepted.

And you can say the same of the Latin Americans, who have been given a whole lot of reasons to dislike us.

And doing this will make us less secure in the long run, as it will confirm to the population on the street that the extremists were right, and that the US hates Muslims. Which means more threats and attacks.

I disagree. It might lead to some attacks but I think the danger of letting those same people on the street in poses the greater danger.

305 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:45:28pm

re: #282 Naso Tang

I've been out and haven't read all this, but in the OP I couldn't help but stop on the bit about "Feminism".

WTF does Feminism (presumably meaning advancing women's rights) have to do with anti-Jihadism? Jihadism is also strongly against Feminism.

The more I read this stuff the more it seems identical to extreme Islamists chatter. They are just mirror images of each other.

There is little difference at all. Dude's program for forced conversion is the mirror image of the frickin Islamic Revolution in Iran.

As for feminism, his beef is the same as the rwnj in America and also crankodoodle Islam: feminism weakens a nation by emasculating its men.

The funny thing to me is, all the people listening to Fox who believe in this, while News Derp is co-owned by the same shariah-law Muslims they purport to hate so much.

306 researchok  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:48:53pm

re: #298 CuriousLurker

This is obvious; not sure why you're telling me about it.

I never said the right was alone in speaking in apocalyptic terms. I hate summoning the MBF, so I'm not going to drag out all the examples of how different the current climate is WRT the right wingt as it's been well documented here and we're all aware of it.

So is the government in Norway, but that didn't stop ABB. Or McVeigh. I repeat: We are not immune. I never, ever want to see this happen again here. We need to pay attention to the red flags being waved in our faces.

I believe you already answered that here:

And I agree with you 100%.

That's right, and they do that by using an ideological bait & switch. They promise one thing an deliver another.

My point is that our government is currently very concerned about the far right, and I don't believe those concerns are motivated by political partisanship or hysteria, I think they're based on law enforcement intelligence & experience. If they're worried, then I'm worried, especially in light of this week's events.

Can't argue with anything you've said here.

You're right on the money.

Clearly, great minds and all that.

307 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:50:13pm

re: #296 Thanos

Now she's follow up with an article on sharia taking over cabs ... Mohan Singh is complaining about strip club ads. The problem with sharia and Mohan Singh is that both his surname and given name are Sikh names, not Muslim. She is as dim as they come.

LMAO

308 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:50:15pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

Lead to some?!

Our Embassies will be constantly attacked, and the extremism that is only beginning to die down now will be given new life. And would be directed at us almost exclusively.

And, again Latin Americans have the same thing attached to them. Rememeber, many of them come from nations that we militarily occupied. It's no secret that Anti-Americanism is at least as strong in Latin America as it is in the Arab World. And have we had a massive problem? NO!

And again, the accusation of secret loyalties is a repeat. Remember the Anti-Catholic Sentiment?

My experience with Arabs says they are no more dangerous than the Conservatives in the nation.

309 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:51:53pm

re: #305 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There is little difference at all. Dude's program for forced conversion is the mirror image of the frickin Islamic Revolution in Iran.

As for feminism, his beef is the same as the rwnj in America and also crankodoodle Islam: feminism weakens a nation by emasculating its men.

The funny thing to me is, all the people listening to Fox who believe in this, while News Derp is co-owned by the same shariah-law Muslims they purport to hate so much.

He's actually worse for women that that: His idea for women is the same as that of German General Erich Ludendorff, the chief of staff of thye German Army during the final two years of WWI who subsequently was part of the attempted putch in Munich on 1923 alongside Hitler. He sees the entire responsibility of women as birthing and rearing the next generation plus tending to home and hearth. It's a strain of thought common among many sorts of militarist, but especially in Germany between the World Wars..

310 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:52:08pm

Moron Yuppie neighbor has been power washing his porch for the past few days. I just did a check of the garden and there are paint chips all over the place along the fence line. He notice that I saw them and said it was ok because he used a soy based stripper. I had to tell him that you're supposed to scrape the paint and dispose of it, not blast it with water. The stripped may be safe but there is still toxic paint all over the place. I guess I'm going to spend tomorrow afternoon on my hands and knees picking paint chips out of the soil. What a fucking idiot. I hate people.

311 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:52:45pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. It might lead to some attacks but I think the danger of letting those same people on the street in poses the greater danger.

Wow. Screw the broad brush, you are laying it on with a roller.

There are plenty of American citizens that shouldn't be walking the streets either. And sure there are some terrorists that might try to immigrate legally (though you should realize that illegality isn't a deterrent). But it's a law enforcement and intelligence issue, not an immigration policy issue.

My problem is that you are acting like "they" are all the same. However the majority of Muslims that would immigrate here are trying to escape the exact cultural situations you describe and think the US sounds like a good alternative. And you would turn them away out of paranoia. Very sad.

312 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:52:51pm

re: #308 ProLifeLiberal

Lead to some?!

Our Embassies will be constantly attacked, and the extremism that is only beginning to die down now will be given new life. And would be directed at us almost exclusively.

And, again Latin Americans have the same thing attached to them. Rememeber, many of them come from nations that we militarily occupied. It's no secret that Anti-Americanism is at least as strong in Latin America as it is in the Arab World. And have we had a massive problem? NO!

And again, the accusation of secret loyalties is a repeat. Remember the Anti-Catholic Sentiment?

My experience with Arabs says they are no more dangerous than the Conservatives in the nation.

I disagree. And if we need to close some embassies, then we should do so.

313 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:52:55pm

re: #308 ProLifeLiberal

Lead to some?!

Our Embassies will be constantly attacked, and the extremism that is only beginning to die down now will be given new life. And would be directed at us almost exclusively.

Speaking of sponsoring countries, aren't we doing that sort of thing right now in Libya?

314 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:54:22pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

And what facts to back that up.

Closing embassies is cutting off our nose to spite our face. All for your hatred of Arabs.

315 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:54:29pm

re: #303 Naso Tang

I don't know what you mean by large scale immigration, but immigrants have always been a major backbone of this country and most of those who come here do so because they admire it and want to get away from that crap at home. (Besides, native Americans don't know how to run small grocery stores and gas stations and motels anymore, but we need them).

One can argue criteria for immigrants like education and/or assets, and limits on relatives, but I believe we already have that in place.

The only immigration we need to restrict further is the illegal kind.

He's an anti-Arab bigot, who thinks "Arabs" are only good for deposing of our oil, which is currently being stored under their homes.

Somebody needs to remind folks like DF about the Immigration Act of 1965, which ended immigration quotas based on ancestry or country of origin.

Tough crap if they don't like it. Go move to a country that doesn't allow Arabs and stfu.

316 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:54:37pm

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

Not really, and not loud enough.

And it needs repetition, becuase they're going to repeat, and repeat, and repeat on many blogs, and before you know it, the first 100 pages of a Google search will return only their version.

317 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:55:12pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

*WHACK*
Sorry man.

318 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:55:33pm

re: #247 alpuz

Hey, austin_blue. I used to live next to Lake Travis(about a half block from the water), and eventually in Lake Travis. After the last flood, we moved up north.

How low is the lake right now? Are any boat ramps open?

Well Lake Austin is always kept at the same level, But both Tarvis and Buchanan have only ramp each open. We aren't where we were in '09, but we will be by August.

You can follow it here:

[Link: travis.uslakes.info...]

319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:55:45pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. It might lead to some attacks but I think the danger of letting those same people on the street in poses the greater danger.

Instead, let's let in everyone who looks like Anders Brevik. ///

9_9

320 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:56:44pm

re: #319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Instead, let's let in everyone who looks like Anders Brevik. ///

9_9

YOU LEAVE AGENT MULDER OUT OF THIS!!!
Wait...
///

321 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:57:04pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. It might lead to some attacks but I think the danger of letting those same people on the street in poses the greater danger.

The people that want to emigrate here want to get away from the restriction and oppression in their countries.

And you want to slam the door in their face.

That's cowardly and unamerican.

The exact same arguments you used were used against Chinese immigration to California; that their way of life was different, that they'd be loyal to the Emperor and not to the US, and that they hated the West.

And Chinese Americans are some of the most stalwart and assimilated groups.

What you're saying is dumb. It is shown to be dumb by history.

322 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:57:06pm

re: #315 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

He's an anti-Arab bigot, who thinks "Arabs" are only good for deposing of our oil, which is currently being stored under their homes.

Somebody needs to remind folks like DF about the Immigration Act of 1965, which ended immigration quotas based on ancestry or country of origin.

Tough crap if they don't like it. Go move to a country that doesn't allow Arabs and stfu.

Fine, then we change the immigration laws. Acts of Congress can be altered.

323 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:57:23pm

re: #319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Instead, let's let in everyone who looks like Anders Brevik. ///

9_9

I cannot approve of letting in anyone with a douchey little chin-beard thing like that into this country...

324 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:59:32pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Well, multiculturalism is a failure.

Are you fucking kidding me?

325 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 4:59:52pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Well, multiculturalism is a failure. And it is a fact that its proponents will try to use this rampage to paint all opposition to it as tainted by this loon. So saying that:

is to me nothing more than a statement of fact.

Why do you say that Multiculturalism has failed Dark?

326 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:00:06pm

re: #310 Killgore Trout

Moron Yuppie neighbor has been power washing his porch for the past few days. I just did a check of the garden and there are paint chips all over the place along the fence line. He notice that I saw them and said it was ok because he used a soy based stripper. I had to tell him that you're supposed to scrape the paint and dispose of it, not blast it with water. The stripped may be safe but there is still toxic paint all over the place. I guess I'm going to spend tomorrow afternoon on my hands and knees picking paint chips out of the soil. What a fucking idiot. I hate people.

Take a chip and have it tested for lead.

327 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:00:11pm

re: #318 austin_blue

Well Lake Austin is always kept at the same level, But both Tarvis and Buchanan have only ramp each open. We aren't where we were in '09, but we will be by August.

You can follow it here:

[Link: travis.uslakes.info...]

Ya' know, I can understand why Gawd is punishing Austin like this; the place is infested with Shariah-compliant hippies and environmentalist Bolsheviks. It is much harder to understand why Lubbock, home of one church for every 900 residents, is being similarly afflicted, if not worse. Oh wait. Could it be because they put up with me? Eeeekkk! Please don't tell the local pitchfork and torch crowd.

328 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:00:16pm

re: #309 Dark_Falcon

He's actually worse for women that that: His idea for women is the same as that of German General Erich Ludendorff, the chief of staff of thye German Army during the final two years of WWI who subsequently was part of the attempted putch in Munich on 1923 alongside Hitler. He sees the entire responsibility of women as birthing and rearing the next generation plus tending to home and hearth. It's a strain of thought common among many sorts of militarist, but especially in Germany between the World Wars..

Hitler card. Rejected.

That idea is no different from the social conservative Christians in the United States who believe the exact same thing. The NOI and Black nationalists also believe the exact same thing.

The idea long predates stupid Hitler and is not unique to European facsists.

329 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:01:16pm

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

Fine, then we change the immigration laws. Acts of Congress can be altered.

Yeah, because god knows we need to keep these people out of the country:

Ghassan Antar Ph.D, At the University of California in San Diego, a plasma physicist.

Nicholas S. Assal, Medical researcher. Helps doctors in the world prevent and treat complications during pregnancy and birth.
Dr. Amin Barakat MD, Famous Pediatrician and Professor of Medicine - Georgetown University Medical Center. Recipient of Ellis Island Medal of Honor.

Dr. Bassam A. Bassam M.D., Professor of Neurology at the University of South Alabama, Department of Neurology.

Dr. Elias Corey, Chemist. Won the 1990 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for developing a logical process that changed the face of synthetic chemistry.

Dr. Michael DeBakey, World Famous heart surgeon currently working in Houston, TX. Invented the heart pump. Today he's chancellor of Baylor University's College of Medicine.

George A. Doumani, Geologist whose explorations helped prove the theory of continental drift. He has a mountain peak named after him in Antarctica.

Dr. Charles Elachi, Director of Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Michael Fakih, MD, Recognized worldwide as a leader in his field. His innovative GIFT technique - using the woman's follicular fluid to treat sperm and serve as a transfer medium - has revolutionized the procedure. The improvement nearly doubles the success rate of the GIFT procedure.

Dr. Fran Jabara, Professor of Business Administration and Entrepreneurship at Wichita State University and the founder (in 1977) of the Center for Entrepreneurship at Wichita State University. A building at the University has been named in his honor as Jabara Hall. He is a relative of the late Col. James Jabara (see Military), America's first triple jet ace in the Korean War.

George a. Kyrala Ph.D - AKA George Amine Khairallah from Bhamdoun. An atomic physicist with a Ph.D from Yale and fellow of the SPIE. Recently won an international prize for high speed photography.

Christa McAuliffe, Teacher and Astronaut. Was one of the seven crew members on board the space shuttle Challenger that exploded shortly after launch.

Dr. Anis Razzouk MD, Prominent heart surgeon at Loma Linda University Hospital in Riverside, CA.

Dr. Philip Salem, Famous Texas based oncologist and Recipient of Ellis Island Medal of Honor.

Jack Shaheen, Former Emeritus Professor of Mass Communications at Southern Ilinois University.

Edward M. Sion, Ph.D, Scientific Editor, The Astrophysical Journal; Professor of Astronomy and Astrophysics, Dept. of Astronomy & Astrophysics, Villanova University.

330 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:01:34pm

Robust reproduction...

331 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:02:12pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. And if we need to close some embassies, then we should do so.

Occupy them, take their natural resources as our own by force to keep our prices low; forbid any emigration.

Yep, it's a dhimmitude bigot.

332 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:02:14pm

re: #296 Thanos

Now she's follow up with an article on sharia taking over cabs ... Mohan Singh is complaining about strip club ads. The problem with sharia and Mohan Singh is that both his surname and given name are Sikh names, not Muslim. She is as dim as they come.

Well, they wear headgear that isn't a baseball cap.//

333 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:02:45pm

re: #326 Gus 802

Take a chip and have it tested for lead.

Probably not worth it. Most of the chips that concern me are in a small area and can be picked up by hand, not really in my garden but under the fence line. These houses are 100 years old. I'm sure the soil is plenty contaminated already. It's more of a hassle than anything serious.

334 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:03:11pm

re: #321 Obdicut

The people that want to emigrate here want to get away from the restriction and oppression in their countries.

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

335 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:03:19pm

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Probably not worth it. Most of the chips that concern me are in a small area and can be picked up by hand, not really in my garden but under the fence line. These houses are 100 years old. I'm sure the soil is plenty contaminated already. It's more of a hassle than anything serious.

Just remember to wear gloves.

336 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:03:36pm

re: #323 JasonA

Can we deport people who have that douchey little beard you talked about? :P

337 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:14pm

Couldn't have any of these guys. We just need peopel who recite the bible real good:


Gul Agha (computer scientist) Professor of Computer Science at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign

Anwar Shaikh - currently Professor of Economics at the Graduate Faculty of The New School in New York City.

Saleem H. Ali - Accomplished environmental researcher and Associate Dean for Graduate studies at the University of Vermont's Rubenstein School of Environment and Natural Resources. He is a popular writer and contributor to publications such as the International Herald Tribune. He has dual American and Pakistani citizenship.


Mohammad Aslam Khan Khalil - Professor of Physics at Portland State University and is a highly cited researcher in the field of Atmospheric physics.

Zia Mian - Renowned Pakistani-American physicist.

Farooq Azam - Distinguished Professor at Scripps Institution of Oceanography, UCSD and is a highly cited researcher in the field of marine microbiology

Abdul Jamil Tajik - Highly cited researcher in clinical medicine.

Asad Abidi - Professor of Electrical Engineering at the University of California, Los Angeles and a member of the National Academy of Engineering.

Ahsan Kareem - Robert M. Moran Professor of Civil Engineering and Geological Sciences at the University of Notre Dame and a member of the National Academy of Engineering.

Dr. Bashir A. Syed - Renowned Physicist, NASA Scientist and authority on Renewable Energy such as Solar and Wind Energy. Distinguished member of NY Academy of Sciences

338 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:44pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

DF. Are you feeling OK? Are you drinking a beer? Is it too hot? Mark Steyn? And all of the restriction on Arabs talk? I've never heard you talk this way before.

339 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:54pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

You're linking to that?

340 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:04:59pm

re: #329 Obdicut

I like this, but do you just have a list of Arab-Americans just sitting around?

341 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:05:06pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

Why do you say that Multiculturalism has failed Dark?

Because he eats Miracle Whip.

342 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:05:22pm

re: #336 ProLifeLiberal

Can we deport people who have that douchey little beard you talked about? :P

Either they leave or I do!!1!!1

343 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:05:39pm

re: #338 Gus 802

DF. Are you feeling OK? Are you drinking a beer? Is it too hot? Mark Steyn? And all of the restriction on Arabs talk? I've never heard you talk this way before.

Is this what it was like when different people started coming out as white nationalist bigots before the great purges?

344 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:05:50pm

re: #341 goddamnedfrank

Because he eats Miracle Whip.

Hot Sauce is my Miracle Whip.

345 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:05pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not.

You seriously think large number of Muslim immigrants will come here to... do what, exactly? Enact Shariah law?

I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play.

Can you please acknowledge this same statement was said about Jews, please?

346 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:21pm

re: #338 Gus 802

DF. Are you feeling OK? Are you drinking a beer? Is it too hot? Mark Steyn? And all of the restriction on Arabs talk? I've never heard you talk this way before.

Yeah, I'm uneasy about this...

347 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:29pm

re: #328 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hitler card. Rejected.

That idea is no different from the social conservative Christians in the United States who believe the exact same thing. The NOI and Black nationalists also believe the exact same thing.

The idea long predates stupid Hitler and is not unique to European facsists.

Read what I wrote: "It's a strain of thought common among many sorts of militarists". I know it shows up elsewhere and I've never tried to excuse it when it shows up here in any guise. However, since the person in question is in Europe and my historical expertise is greatest in matters relating to World War II, that was the example I went with.

348 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:29pm

re: #342 JasonA

Either they leave or I do!!1!!1

Introduce them to Brazilian culture.

349 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:29pm

Hey all!

HOw has the day been?

350 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:06:58pm

re: #349 ggt

Hey all!

HOw has the day been?

QUICK!
GET HIM!

351 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:07:22pm

re: #341 goddamnedfrank

Because he eats Miracle Whip.

Hey now, not all of us Miracle Whip lovers are crazies.

352 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:07:32pm

re: #348 jaunte

Introduce them to Brazilian culture.

OH GOD, NOW THE BRAZILIANS ARE COMING WITH THEIR WICKED TANNING WAYS IN LARGE NUMBERS?!?!?

353 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:07:42pm

re: #312 Dark_Falcon

I disagree. And if we need to close some embassies, then we should do so.

Let's hear when we should close embassies, and which ones, and what that will do.

Embassies are sovereign US territory, even in antagonistic territory. Do you think anything would be better for us if we have no clue what is going on or if a government wants to talk to us, but can't because we ran home?

354 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:07:52pm

re: #340 ProLifeLiberal

I like this, but do you just have a list of Arab-Americans just sitting around?

I'm just grabbing them randomly and even editing out anyone who's an anthropologist etc.

355 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:07:55pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Ah yes...the guy who can't figure out why millions of people consider Rush Limbaugh a nasty racist. Great guy to link to.

356 recusancy  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:07:57pm

re: #351 thedopefishlives

Hey now, not all of us Miracle Whip lovers are crazies.

Wow that advertising campaign actually works?

357 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:07pm

re: #352 JasonA

Carnivale!

358 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:26pm

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

Fine, then we change the immigration laws. Acts of Congress can be altered.

Not gonna happen.

The Immigration Act of 1965 undid the immigration acts of 1921 and 1924, and all their precedents going back to the Alien and Sedition Acts.

Thanks to anti-immigrant bigots spouting identical arguments to yours, they were the law of the land. We rubbed your noses in it with the Immigration act of 1965, though.

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:27pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

WE will for 1 generation, some of the 2nd generation, by the 3rd it will be only those who want to "explore" their heritage.

It's a Brave New World. . . .

360 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:32pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

So assimilation means that Muslims have to stop praying to their deity?

I wish Christians would assimilate already. ///

361 blueraven  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:38pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

Mark Steyn is a jerk. On the level with Rush and his ilk.

362 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:45pm

re: #356 recusancy

Wow that advertising campaign actually works?

Heh, I'd be surprised if it did. :-P I was raised in a Kraft household, my dad's been an employee for most of his adult career. So I learned to love it early.

363 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:08:47pm

re: #354 Obdicut

I'm just grabbing them randomly and even editing out anyone who's an anthropologist etc.


Oh.
I see how it is.
/

364 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:09:01pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

OMG, Muslims praying?? How horrible! And you're linking to Mark Steyn?

Fuck this. I'm outta here before I lose my temper. DF, you make me almost sorry that I defended your ass in the pages a while back when you weren't here to do it yourself.

365 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:09:02pm

re: #357 jaunte

Carnivale!

WE CAN'T ALLOW ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN THESE UNITED STATES!!

wait, Mardi what?

366 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:09:04pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

Some of them do, but others will not. I simply do not believe such people will assimilate if they arrive in large numbers, given the cultural issues in play. I think we'd more likely see this sort of thing.

You do know that's a school in Canada, right? That Steyn is building his entire rant about anti-American behavior on a school that isn't American -- that he KNOWS is in Canada because that's in the rant?

367 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:09:09pm

re: #331 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Occupy them, take their natural resources as our own by force to keep our prices low; forbid any emigration.

Yep, it's a dhimmitude bigot.

And I got bashed for expecting the flouncing?

368 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:09:39pm

re: #354 Obdicut

Points: You just got them for that.

369 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:09:51pm

re: #338 Gus 802

DF. Are you feeling OK? Are you drinking a beer? Is it too hot? Mark Steyn? And all of the restriction on Arabs talk? I've never heard you talk this way before.

Scratch a cultural social conservative, find a bigot.

Never, ever fails.

370 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:10:28pm

re: #364 CuriousLurker

OMG, Muslims praying?? How horrible! And you're linking to Mark Steyn?

Fuck this. I'm outta here before I lose my temper. DF, you make me almost sorry that I defended your ass in the pages a while back when you weren't here to do it yourself.

This is about the time when DF usually excuses himself to go think about he's saying, but it hasn't seem to have happened yet.

371 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:10:33pm

re: #336 ProLifeLiberal

Can we deport people who have that douchey little beard you talked about? :P

Scandinavians have thin facial hair. You would be talking of half of Minnesota if you did that.

Now Iranians are another story. Very macho, especially without shirts./

372 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:10:53pm

re: #329 Obdicut

My tea party neighbor was outraged to hear that actual foreigners, non-citizens, are being allowed to join the US armed forces. Actually, as I explained to him, there has never been a time when US citizenship was a requirement for enlistment, as long as one is willing to take the oath to the US Constitution. The US is one of the few countries that allow this. Immigrant soldiers have a long history in this country, and it is a proud tradition of the US armed forces. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants, many of them just off the boat, served in the Civil War. More than half of the cavalrymen who died with Custer were foreign born. There was a mass citizenship ceremony for US troops in Afghanistan a while back, and the same ceremony has been conducted in Baghdad, Saigon, and hundreds of other places.

373 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:11:23pm

re: #371 Naso Tang

Scandinavians have thin facial hair. You would be talking of half of Minnesota if you did that.

Eh, take the Norwegian half, it would greatly ease the tension with us Swedes and Finns./

374 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:11:30pm

re: #352 JasonA

OH GOD, NOW THE BRAZILIANS ARE COMING WITH THEIR WICKED TANNING WAYS IN LARGE NUMBERS?!?!?

It's the WAXING---omg!

375 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:11:44pm

re: #371 Naso Tang

Scandinavians have thin facial hair. You would be talking of half of Minnesota if you did that.

Now Iranians are another story. Very macho, especially without shirts./

That explains why my beard looks pathetic.
Damn Swedish relatives!
:P

376 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:11:57pm

re: #345 Obdicut

You seriously think large number of Muslim immigrants will come here to... do what, exactly? Enact Shariah law?

Can you please acknowledge this same statement was said about Jews, please?

Yes, that was said about Jews as well.

377 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:12:07pm

re: #352 JasonA

We don't need anymore oompa loompas either. We need less Jersey Shore, not more.

378 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:12:59pm

re: #376 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that was said about Jews as well.

And did that turn out to be true, Dark?

I mean, we have some Hassidic communities that are very, very non-mainstream, but was all that fearful talk just that, fearful talk?

They said that Jews would bring in Communism. Did we?

379 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:13:07pm

re: #375 Varek Raith

That explains why my beard looks pathetic.
Damn Swedish relatives!
:P

And that would also explain why the Norsefolk here in the wild north country give me weird looks. As an Irishman, my thick full beard must have them all right stymied./

380 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:13:14pm

re: #376 Dark_Falcon

Yes, that was said about Jews as well.

And it's just as wrong now as it was then.

381 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:13:35pm

re: #371 Naso Tang

Unfortunately, my facial hair isn't following the rule you set.

I guess the rest of Europe in my bloodline negates it.

382 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:13:43pm

re: #229 Ojoe

re: #294 Varek Raith

Jalapenos stuffed with cream cheese wrapped in sausage is just awesome.
Unhealthy, but awesome.

"All nice things are good for you."

— Moomin Mama.

383 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:13:49pm

In local immigration news, the guy from Malaysia that my small business has been sponsoring finally got his Green card on Friday after ten years of paperwork and legal fees.

384 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:14:21pm

re: #360 prononymous

So assimilation means that Muslims have to stop praying to their deity?

I wish Christians would assimilate already. ///

IN Public Schools, during the school day?

Do you really think that if a Christian Sect said the children had to pray and would be bussed to a local church, making them late to class, the School Board would allow them to use the cafeteria?

First of all, The article was from a Canadian News Paper and doesn't apply to us.

Second, I hope that there would be serious discussion if this were to be proposed in a US School. I can see bending the rules if the student population is 100% of the particular faith, but the law is the law.

385 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:14:34pm

re: #347 Dark_Falcon

Read what I wrote: "It's a strain of thought common among many sorts of militarists". I know it shows up elsewhere and I've never tried to excuse it when it shows up here in any guise. However, since the person in question is in Europe and my historical expertise is greatest in matters relating to World War II, that was the example I went with.

I read what you wrote.

The view is not unique to Breivik, Hitler, or any other European fascists.

Crankodoodle Muslims believe it. Cultural/politically conservative Christians in the US believe it. Self-identified "Jewish Nationalist" bigots like Aunt Milty bent over like fjordman believe it. Black nationalists, all 17 of them, believe in it. It's old-hat stuff, DF.

386 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:14:39pm

re: #378 Obdicut

And did that turn out to be true, Dark?

I mean, we have some Hassidic communities that are very, very non-mainstream, but was all that fearful talk just that, fearful talk?

They said that Jews would bring in Communism. Did we?

Right, but strict Muslims will want to practice Sharia Law, with all its harsh penalties and stuff. Just like strict Jews stone those not observing the Sabbath...

387 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:14:39pm

re: #382 Ojoe

How did that Number 229 get there?

388 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:15:01pm

re: #384 ggt

That article was about a Canadian school.

389 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:15:36pm

re: #372 Shiplord Kirel

My tea party neighbor was outraged to hear that actual foreigners, non-citizens, are being allowed to join the US armed forces. Actually, as I explained to him, there has never been a time when US citizenship was a requirement for enlistment, as long as one is willing to take the oath to the US Constitution. The US is one of the few countries that allow this. Immigrant soldiers have a long history in this country, and it is a proud tradition of the US armed forces. Hundreds of thousands of immigrants, many of them just off the boat, served in the Civil War. More than half of the cavalrymen who died with Custer were foreign born. There was a mass citizenship ceremony for US troops in Afghanistan a while back, and the same ceremony has been conducted in Baghdad, Saigon, and hundreds of other places.

IIRC, it is a wonderful way for people to gain citizenship.

390 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:17:00pm

re: #389 ggt

IIRC, it is a wonderful way for people to gain citizenship.

Yep. That was part of the DREAM act that the GOP just killed.

391 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:17:28pm

re: #389 ggt

IIRC, it is a wonderful way for people to gain citizenship.

Yes, it is. And some non-American soldiers have committed some of our finest acts of bravery.

392 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:17:30pm

re: #364 CuriousLurker

OMG, Muslims praying?? How horrible! And you're linking to Mark Steyn?

Fuck this. I'm outta here before I lose my temper. DF, you make me almost sorry that I defended your ass in the pages a while back when you weren't here to do it yourself.

That's in a public school in Canada. It's technically not allowed. And I agree that it shouldn't be allowed in a public school However, I don't think the way to prevent this is by creating immigration quotas limiting Muslims from entering the USA or Canada. In this case they should do just as the Christians and Jews do in that school district which is to practice their faith outside of the public school.

393 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:17:57pm

re: #383 jaunte

Now the fact that a green card takes ten years to get is an immigration problem.

I think the Bureaucracy is too small, and there are too many layers of it.

Before the next wave gets here, reform it!

394 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:18:17pm

"Consider the source". Steyn:

Nobody would know a thing about the “mosqueteria” story were it not for the blogger Blazing Cat Fur, whom I was honoured to say a word for in Ottawa a few months back.

Well, I happened to know about that blogger before, and what I happened to know was this. I don't know what is true in Steyn's article and what is not, but considering the source, I don't want to know. The source should be credible.

395 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:18:17pm

re: #388 Obdicut

That article was about a Canadian school.

Yeah, I think I referenced that in my #384.

396 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:19:48pm

re: #392 Gus 802

I think kids should be allowed to pray at school. I don't think they should be forced to pray, or there be official times to pray. But just like I think Jewish kids should be allowed to wear yarmulkes even if the school has a general 'no headwear' policy, I think that Muslim kids should be allowed to go pray during the ritual hours.

We shouldn't let conformity get in the way of religious freedom.

397 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:20:09pm

re: #384 ggt

I agree, they should do it outside school. What's the point you or DF are trying to make?

398 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:20:28pm

re: #393 ProLifeLiberal

Now the fact that a green card takes ten years to get is an immigration problem.

I think the Bureaucracy is too small, and there are too many layers of it.

Before the next wave gets here, reform it!

It depends on who's petitioning whom, and how fast they can afford/give the paperwork.

Took two years from start to arrival in America for my mom. Priority dates for other US-Filipino petitions take up to 20 years.

399 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:21:19pm

re: #398 laZardo

Still think there is a massive problem.

400 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:21:19pm

re: #378 Obdicut

And did that turn out to be true, Dark?

I mean, we have some Hassidic communities that are very, very non-mainstream, but was all that fearful talk just that, fearful talk?

They said that Jews would bring in Communism. Did we?

According to the bigots, why yes!

Liberalism socialism check. Feminism, check. Jazz and Hollywood, check. The queers, check!

Wh-hhy, you're responsible for bringing in me, in fact! ///

401 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:21:59pm

re: #396 Obdicut

I think kids should be allowed to pray at school. I don't think they should be forced to pray, or there be official times to pray. But just like I think Jewish kids should be allowed to wear yarmulkes even if the school has a general 'no headwear' policy, I think that Muslim kids should be allowed to go pray during the ritual hours.

We shouldn't let conformity get in the way of religious freedom.

This is an organized session:

From November to March, the pupils enter the cafeteria segregated by sex, with boys at the front separated from girls at the back. The imam stands at the front with a microphone and begins with a short lesson in English, usually about the importance of discipline or mutual respect, said a parent volunteer, and then leads a prayer in Arabic.

OK. I'm not familiar with Canadian law. I am familiar with US law. This would never and should never be tolerated in any public school in the USA regardless of faith.

402 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:22:58pm

re: #364 CuriousLurker

OMG, Muslims praying?? How horrible! And you're linking to Mark Steyn?

Fuck this. I'm outta here before I lose my temper. DF, you make me almost sorry that I defended your ass in the pages a while back when you weren't here to do it yourself.

I don't have a problem with anyone praying. I think the point made here was that the conservatism we see today in religion, and I don't mean only Islam, is stronger and less tolerant than it was less than a generation ago.

A better argument would be why that is so, Christian or Muslim.

I left the Middle East nearly twenty years ago now, but when I first went there in the 70's tolerance to non Muslims was very high (and I might add to homosexuals). By the 90's all that had changed. The fundamentalists wanted one change after another, and got them.

I think it is a cultural crisis that has only one fallback defense through religion to try to preserve what is seen as the good old days, just like Christian fundamentalists seem to yearn for.

403 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:23:10pm

re: #399 ProLifeLiberal

I didn't say I was disagreeing. :P

404 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:23:16pm

re: #373 thedopefishlives

Eh, take the Norwegian half, it would greatly ease the tension with us Swedes and Finns./

Good idea.

405 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:24:03pm

re: #401 Gus 802

I completely agree. But it seems like an anomaly to me. Dearborn, Michigan doesn't have such things going on, and it's got a massive Muslim population.

406 blueraven  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:24:25pm

re: #384 ggt

IN Public Schools, during the school day?

Do you really think that if a Christian Sect said the children had to pray and would be bussed to a local church, making them late to class, the School Board would allow them to use the cafeteria?

First of all, The article was from a Canadian News Paper and doesn't apply to us.

Second, I hope that there would be serious discussion if this were to be proposed in a US School. I can see bending the rules if the student population is 100% of the particular faith, but the law is the law.

Right, so why is MS and DF conflating this with America? If it should happen here we need to deal with it, because no public school should have any prayer service at all.

407 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:25:30pm

re: #401 Gus 802

Agreed. And if somebody wants to pray personally, this is OK, but I don't think public schools should accommodate mass prayers.

408 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:25:46pm

re: #406 blueraven

We already have a system set up to prevent this. It's not like the Supreme Court is going to decided the it's cool if Muslims pray but not anyone else.

409 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:25:52pm

re: #405 Obdicut

I completely agree. But it seems like an anomaly to me. Dearborn, Michigan doesn't have such things going on, and it's got a massive Muslim population.

It is. And it's just one school in Canada so I really don't see the need for the usual Steyn alarmist rhetoric.

410 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:26:06pm

Been exchanging emails with a reporter for NPR's NY affiliate today. Should be an interesting week.

411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:26:34pm

re: #396 Obdicut

I think kids should be allowed to pray at school. I don't think they should be forced to pray, or there be official times to pray. But just like I think Jewish kids should be allowed to wear yarmulkes even if the school has a general 'no headwear' policy, I think that Muslim kids should be allowed to go pray during the ritual hours.

We shouldn't let conformity get in the way of religious freedom.

Kids can pray at public school at any time. They just can't have school officials lead the prayers.

I'm also against Muslim kids being excused to do ritual prayers as well as no headgear policies. I'm also against uniforms in public schools, but lost that battle years ago.

412 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:26:49pm

re: #410 Charles

Been exchanging emails with a reporter for NPR's NY affiliate today. Should be an interesting week.

I don't think anyone really figured otherwise. Hoping that the ride is smooth and the hamsters are properly fueled.

413 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:27:02pm

re: #402 Naso Tang

The problem was, there was no real established hierarchy in the Muslim World to resist the conservatives, unlike in the West. Remember, the Ottoman Empire at that time had only been gone 40-60 years. It takes time for a major structure to come up after something like that disappears. And the Muslim World disproportionately was at the brunt of Colonialism. No country was not heavily affected.

To be blunt, the immune system was weak, and vulnerable to a virus.

414 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:28:05pm

re: #392 Gus 802

That's in a public school in Canada. It's technically not allowed. And I agree that it shouldn't be allowed in a public school However, I don't think the way to prevent this is by creating immigration quotas limiting Muslims from entering the USA or Canada. In this case they should do just as the Christians and Jews do in that school district which is to practice their faith outside of the public school.

Well, I'm not familiar with the laws in Canada, so I can't comment ion that part. But here is not Canada, and we obviously DO have laws about it. Yeah, if other prayers aren't allowed in schools, then Muslims can't be allowed either.

I have to wonder though, if D_F would be equally opposed to Christian prayer in schools. And what about federal holidays that are religious, like Christmas? Big can of worms there...

415 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:28:14pm

re: #405 Obdicut

If Dearborn doesn't have this issue going on, we're okay. :D

416 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:28:16pm

re: #410 Charles

Anything you can hint at? ;)

417 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:29:17pm

From the director of the Toronto District School Board, quoted in full.

Director statement re Religious accommodation for Muslim prayer service at a TDSB school


Toronto, ON, Friday, July 8, 2011 — There has been a great deal written in the past week about the religious accommodation for Muslim prayers that takes place at Valley Park Middle School from November to May.

There are very many viewpoints that have been expressed concerning this subject. I wish to make the Toronto District School Board’s (TDSB) position on this issue clear.
While the TDSB is part of a secular public school system, like other school boards, we exist within a broader context of law and public policy that protects and defends human rights. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects freedom of religion. The Ontario Human Rights Code protects an individual’s freedom from discriminatory or harassing behaviour based on religion. The Toronto District School Board recognizes and is committed to the values of freedom of religion and freedom from discriminatory or harassing behaviour based on religion through our Equity Foundation Statement, Guidelines and Procedures for the Accommodation of Religious Requirements, Practices and Observances, the Human Rights Policy and Procedures, and the Safe Schools Policy.
The Toronto District School Board takes reasonable steps to provide accommodation to members of religious groups who state that the Board’s operations or requirements interfere with their ability to exercise their religious beliefs and practices. The Board balances its decision to accommodate on several factors such as undue hardship, including: the cost of accommodation to the Board; health and safety risks to the person requesting accommodation and to others; and the Board’s ability to fulfill its duties under Board policies and the Education Act.
Where religious accommodation is concerned, the law is quite clear: freedom of religion in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms supersedes the Education Act. As a public school board, we have a responsibility and an obligation to accommodate faith needs.
Here are some facts regarding the law:
1. Indoctrinating religious instruction is prohibited in public boards.
2. Non-indoctrinating instruction about religion is allowed.
3. Scriptural readings from a variety of religions and beliefs, and moments of silence, are permitted during opening or closing exercises.
One of our primary goals is always to maximize instructional time for our students. We do this entirely within the context of instruction rather than indoctrination in any religion. In this way, we strive to achieve the respectful separation of religious devotion and education within our public schools. That is our legal and moral duty.
In the case of Valley Park, the school is not teaching the “religious practice.” Rather it is accommodating for the religious and spiritual needs of the students like many other schools do around the country for a number of different faith communities. Providing this religious accommodation does not violate any Board policies since the service is not a Board or school activity.
There have been concerns expressed that the practice of Islam separates individuals by gender. We do not have the authority to tell faith groups how to pray. The division of the sexes which occurs during the service is a part of the Islamic faith. Students who participate in the prayer services do so voluntarily and with parental permission, and no one is obligated to participate.
We understand that this is a very sensitive issue for many, and that there will continue to be differing opinions among members of our communities. However, we believe it is the willingness to have courageous conversations like these that has made Canada the diverse yet cohesive society that comes together in Toronto District School Board’s classrooms every day.


[Link: www.tdsb.on.ca...]

418 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:29:41pm

re: #397 prononymous

I agree, they should do it outside school. What's the point you or DF are trying to make?

For me the outrage was prayer in public school during the school day. I LOVED going to public school after RC school - I really didn't want any more religion in my life and not having to deal with it at school was wonderful.

You'll have to ask DF about his point -of-view.

419 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:31:09pm

re: #389 ggt

There have been foreign soldiers who have gotten the MOH. One was Hispanic IIRC.

420 Jerk  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:31:14pm

This is a fantastic article. Glad you're getting some notice for it.

421 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:32:14pm

re: #414 CuriousLurker

Well, I'm not familiar with the laws in Canada, so I can't comment ion that part. But here is not Canada, and we obviously DO have laws about it. Yeah, if other prayers aren't allowed in schools, then Muslims can't be allowed either.

I have to wonder though, if D_F would be equally opposed to Christian prayer in schools. And what about federal holidays that are religious, like Christmas? Big can of worms there...

Christian prayers in schools are not allowed, on school time (out of deference to Muslims and others, among other reasons) and you say you know that, so I don't understand the question.

422 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:32:30pm

re: #406 blueraven

Right, so why is MS and DF conflating this with America?

Shariah, it be creeping!

Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Anders Brevik already know this!

423 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:33:29pm

re: #418 ggt

For me the outrage was prayer in public school during the school day. I LOVED going to public school after RC school - I really didn't want any more religion in my life and not having to deal with it at school was wonderful.

You'll have to ask DF about his point -of-view.

DF, as can be expected, has left the building.

424 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:33:42pm

re: #417 kirkspencer

What if religion requires 4 days of rest every week, as a hypothetical? Or wearing weapons? Or not having female teachers? I think a principled argument from freedom of religion is probably impossible. Freedom of religion cannot override secular principles.

425 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:33:53pm

re: #402 Naso Tang

I don't have a problem with anyone praying. I think the point made here was that the conservatism we see today in religion, and I don't mean only Islam, is stronger and less tolerant than it was less than a generation ago.

A better argument would be why that is so, Christian or Muslim.

I left the Middle East nearly twenty years ago now, but when I first went there in the 70's tolerance to non Muslims was very high (and I might add to homosexuals). By the 90's all that had changed. The fundamentalists wanted one change after another, and got them.

I think it is a cultural crisis that has only one fallback defense through religion to try to preserve what is seen as the good old days, just like Christian fundamentalists seem to yearn for.

The world is changing very fast. Many people can't keep up or don't want to--they find comfort in the myth of the good ole' days.

I don't know how it will all turn-out, but we can't just marginalize people who aren't tech savvy or who don't have the time to read all there is to read and learn to live in a global world.

It's a very big IDEA, this Brave New World. In the next generation, it will be far different than it was from my parents generation to mine.

426 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:33:53pm

Out to dinner. Later.

And DF, please take the wattage down.

427 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:34:30pm

re: #422 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Shariah, it be creeping!

Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Anders Brevik already know this!

If I had to choose between Shariah law and being friends with Spencer, Geller and Brevik, I'd choose Shariah law.

428 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:35:10pm

re: #424 Sergey Romanov

What if religion requires 4 days of rest every week, as a hypothetical? Or wearing weapons? Or not having female teachers? I think a principled argument from freedom of religion is probably impossible. Freedom of religion cannot override secular principles.

Freedom of religion should be allowed where it doesn't contradict those mutual secular values.

And the Sikh's handle the weapon thing pretty well.

As one Sikh scholar said, the virtue of religion is its flexibility.

429 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:35:15pm

re: #427 darthstar

If I had to choose between Shariah law and being friends with Spencer, Geller and Brevik, I'd choose Shariah law.

I don't know if I'd go that far, but certainly I wouldn't immediately jump to the aid of Spencer et al.

430 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:35:36pm

re: #418 ggt

For me the outrage was prayer in public school during the school day. I LOVED going to public school after RC school - I really didn't want any more religion in my life and not having to deal with it at school was wonderful.

You'll have to ask DF about his point -of-view.

I was never big on prayer...I always faked it in Catholic school when I was a kid because I really just couldn't buy the whole story.

431 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:35:48pm

re: #418 ggt

I really didn't want any more religion in my life and not having to deal with it at school was wonderful.

I can say that after 8 years of Catholic grammar school I was fed up and sort of a psychic wreck. I took a few decades to get over it.

432 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:36:26pm

re: #421 Naso Tang

Christian prayers in schools are not allowed, on school time (out of deference to Muslims and others, among other reasons) and you say you know that, so I don't understand the question.

They're still fighting about that in Texas.

State Attorney General Greg Abbott said he'll join an appeal of a federal judge's ruling that banned public prayer at Medina Valley High School's upcoming graduation ceremony.
[Link: www.cbn.com...]
433 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:37:19pm

re: #418 ggt

I agree and think that separation of church and state needs to be maintained (at least here, I have no idea about how it applies in Canada).

But I don't really see why DF cited it as a failure to assimilate. It should be expected that people of all religions would continue to pray to their deities even after assimilation into a new culture. Unless he was implying that assimilation meant conversion as well.

434 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:37:21pm

To summarize: The board heard discussion, talked with both their attorneys and the various governmental agencies, and said the practice is legal and stands. Some critical elements:

1. It is voluntary. Now I don't know about where you are, but down here near Chattanooga more than one school has voluntary Christian clubs and organizations that hold what are for all intents and purposes worship services. US law does not prohibit worship services or prayer in school. It prohibits REQUIRED worship services or prayer. Those who do not want to attend should not be forced to, either directly or by implication. (You don't have to participate but you have to stand and listen sort of stuff.)

2. According to the board and to a few other places I read, there are legal requirements for multiculturism, one aspect of which is religion, that schools must accommodate.

3. It is in Canada, not the US. If you are trying to use US law as your guide you are doing it wrong. If the Toronto School District Board is doing it wrong that will come out over the next few weeks. Given that they actually checked with their attorneys and the various government agencies that is unlikely, but it is still possible.

435 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:37:37pm

re: #406 blueraven

Right, so why is MS and DF conflating this with America? If it should happen here we need to deal with it, because no public school should have any prayer service at all.

Because MS is using the Picture as a very effective propaganda tool. Images produce emotion that is difficult to overcome even after reading the article attached to them.

To ANY AMERICAN, using a public school for prayer during the school day FOR ANY RELIGION should produce outrage. MS used the Muslim example because he is targeting a certain audience.

Frankly, it outraged me --then I read the article and surmised it was a set-up (propaganda).

We are dealing with emotions here, it takes time for the brain to sort it all out.

436 Ojoe  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:37:39pm

re: #424 Sergey Romanov

Freedom of religion cannot override secular principles.

In spades it cannot.

The criminal code trumps religion. Suttee is very illegal in the USA for instance.

437 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:37:43pm

re: #417 kirkspencer

I don't agree but that's their interpretation; their laws; and their country. That, in my opinion, is a slippery slope in public schools which can lead to further religious "accommodation" in other aspects of education and most particularly worrisome being in science class -- i.e. creationism, intelligent design, etc.

438 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:38:06pm

re: #428 Obdicut

As one Sikh scholar said, the virtue of religion is its flexibility.

Tell that to Evanpublicans.

439 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:38:09pm

re: #414 CuriousLurker

Well, I'm not familiar with the laws in Canada, so I can't comment ion that part. But here is not Canada, and we obviously DO have laws about it. Yeah, if other prayers aren't allowed in schools, then Muslims can't be allowed either.

I have to wonder though, if D_F would be equally opposed to Christian prayer in schools. And what about federal holidays that are religious, like Christmas? Big can of worms there...

Honestly? I don't think it's that big a can of worms. Imo, people just need to be forced to say they believe their vision of conservative Christianity should RULE, and everyone else must be a second class citizen.

It's straight up dhimmitude mentality, though in this country, between Black Codes and the formal end of segregation, states rights conservatives perfected it. It's not a mistake that today's states rights conservatives also fall for this "creeping shariah" bit promoted by Geller/Spencer/GoV, et al.

There's really no other way to describe them.

440 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:38:14pm

re: #432 jaunte

They're still fighting about that in Texas.

Somebody somewhere is always going to fight it.

441 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:38:45pm

re: #428 Obdicut

I would say "As a public school board, we have a responsibility and an obligation to accommodate faith needs." pretty much contradicts it. Public schools don't have to "accommodate faith needs". If in their free time students want to do something religious - good. That's the extent of it.

442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:39:09pm

re: #427 darthstar

If I had to choose between Shariah law and being friends with Spencer, Geller and Brevik, I'd choose Shariah law.

Lol! True.

But I would choose NOTA, or false dilemma. All of them can go jump in the pond. They all deserve each other.

443 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:39:14pm

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

444 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:39:24pm

re: #421 Naso Tang

Christian prayers in schools are not allowed, on school time (out of deference to Muslims and others, among other reasons) and you say you know that, so I don't understand the question.

It was rhetorical. Never mind.

445 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:39:31pm

re: #411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Kids can pray at public school at any time. They just can't have school officials lead the prayers.

I'm also against Muslim kids being excused to do ritual prayers as well as no headgear policies. I'm also against uniforms in public schools, but lost that battle years ago.

I"m sorry, I didn't want to be exposed to Rosarys when I transferred from RC school to public school. If people want to pray in private or quietly at their locker, fine.

Kids have a hard enough time focusing on school work. . . .

446 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:40:52pm

re: #443 oslogin

Any links to interviews? :)

447 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:40:57pm

re: #443 oslogin

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

I just want to say thank you for helping to keep us informed as the news broke yesterday. Much appreciated!

448 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:41:38pm

re: #423 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

DF, as can be expected, has left the building.

I expect he will think it through when he calms down.

Again, the visual effect of the Photograph is a very powerful propaganda tool. MS used it for a reason.

449 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:43:47pm

re: #443 oslogin

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

It's still great to have you for front-line information. Stay safe over there, and thank you for the awesome job you've done so far.

450 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:43:57pm

re: #443 oslogin

I need a translator for a map I found. What does this map say?

Map in question

451 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:44:21pm

re: #433 prononymous

I agree and think that separation of church and state needs to be maintained (at least here, I have no idea about how it applies in Canada).

But I don't really see why DF cited it as a failure to assimilate. It should be expected that people of all religions would continue to pray to their deities even after assimilation into a new culture. Unless he was implying that assimilation meant conversion as well.

I think the reference is to more specific commands. Sikhs are supposed to wear headgear and carry a knife. Muslims are supposed to pray 5 times a day at set times, regardless of class schedules, not to mention Fridays as Sundays.

Obviously that causes very visible conflicts in the west, if anyone insists on them. (would you let your restaurant chef take off to pray in the middle of lunch or dinner like they do in Saudi?).

I suspect most Muslims like the freedom to choose when they pray, instead of being noticed when they don't, but you will need to ask CL how that plays out in her life today.

452 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:45:58pm

re: #444 CuriousLurker

It was rhetorical. Never mind.

I think DF knew the answer too.

453 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:46:12pm

re: #448 ggt

I expect he will think it through when he calms down.

Again, the visual effect of the Photograph is a very powerful propaganda tool. MS used it for a reason.

He may or he may not think it through; that's on him. He didn't seem upset to me. But you're right, people are very easily propagandized and exploited by that sort of thing. Breivik is only one notorious example.

454 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:46:22pm

GoV engages pretzel logic overdrive:

His total lack of respect for human life is not, however, something he can have picked up from me, or from any of the other Islam-critical writers I know such as Robert Spencer or Bat Ye’or. Indeed, the lack of respect for human life is often one of the great shortcomings of Islamic culture that we have consistently pointed out.

455 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:47:14pm

re: #454 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GoV engages pretzel logic overdrive:

Right, because you guys absolutely have respect for the lives of Muslims.

Wait, what?

456 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:47:52pm

Anyone else notice all of the shootings that happened this weekend? Texas, Florida, California... at birthday parties? Fucking bizarre.

Too bad there aren't more guns...

457 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:47:53pm

re: #443 oslogin

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

Oyvind, good to see you -- did you see my note about releasing your book for Kindle?

458 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:48:31pm

re: #455 thedopefishlives

Right, because you guys absolutely have respect for the lives of Muslims.

Wait, what?

He said *human* lives!!!111

///need I?

459 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:48:41pm

re: #62 mp11

There is an ongoing discussion on whether killing young people, specifically members of leftist organizations is ever justifiable and a general consensus has formed that it actually is! (youll need to use google translator)

[Link: www.forum-voor-de-vrijheid.nl...]

I don't need Google Translate. I read Dutch. That stuff there is nasty, nasty, nasty stuff.

460 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:48:59pm

re: #441 Sergey Romanov

I can appreciate your position. To me, allowing kids to leave the room to go pray (for short periods of time) is no different than letting kids with anxiety disorders have some quiet time, or kids who are on a sports team take off early.

I am a lot more concerned about religious things being taught in science class. I would NOT be okay with kids being excused during class because they had to hear something that was offensive to their religion.

461 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:49:12pm

re: #433 prononymous

I agree and think that separation of church and state needs to be maintained (at least here, I have no idea about how it applies in Canada).

But I don't really see why DF cited it as a failure to assimilate. It should be expected that people of all religions would continue to pray to their deities even after assimilation into a new culture. Unless he was implying that assimilation meant conversion as well.

No, I don't think so. I really think DF is reacting to the visual effect of the photo in the article. As I've said before it is effective propaganda.

Both the Whacko Christians and Muslims have ways of bending logic to suit their needs.

After 9/11 we learned all kinds of new things about the Muslim faith that we weren't exposed to before. The Christian version is old hat. The fear is that they will use our goodwill (civil rights, democracy) to control us.

What is new seems the most dangerous . . . ..we are vulnerable to what we don't understand.

There are plenty of Whacko Christian sects that have carved little niches for themselves (The Sect in Texas that had their kids taken away comes to mind for me). If we have to live with them, then we have to live with all others.

Whackos of all persuasions scare the shit out of me. Just the idea of "one more" to deal with is overwhelming.

My husband would be ranting about it for days before he calmed down. Maybe it's a guy thing?

462 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:49:40pm

re: #458 Sergey Romanov

The scary thing is, that's exactly what their response probably would be. At the risk of Godwin'ing the thread, it's a turn of a phrase worthy of the Final Solution to the Muslim Problem.

463 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:49:46pm

re: #441 Sergey Romanov

I would say "As a public school board, we have a responsibility and an obligation to accommodate faith needs." pretty much contradicts it. Public schools don't have to "accommodate faith needs". If in their free time students want to do something religious - good. That's the extent of it.

But they do. For example, schools in NYC close for 2 days for Rosh Hashanah every year to accommodate the large number of Jewish kids would probably otherwise miss school on those days. PDF calendar for NYC schools

464 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:49:58pm

re: #451 Naso Tang

Ok, but how many of those students would have stayed and skipped prayers if it wasn't sponsored and they had no free time or place to do it?

465 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:50:42pm

re: #460 Obdicut

I guess there *is* a room for compromise - as long as religion, indeed, does not interfere with the teaching process, and as long as we try to stay quite up on that slippery slope.

466 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:50:52pm

re: #443 oslogin

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

links?

Glad to see you here.

467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:13pm

re: #443 oslogin

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

Hey oslogin - there was a q. earlier in the thread (start with #151) about the translation of "Christian fundamentalist", which showed up in the initial reports of Brevik's capture.

I do tend to wordsmith when it comes to rightwing Christianity, but can you say something about the preliminary reports?

I'd addressed this a bit yesterday, but it's important, because we now have a bunch of people believing he's some kind of Pat Robertson devotee. That's a totally wrong impression.

468 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:51:28pm

re: #459 oslogin

What forum is this? I've never heard of it.

A guy like that appeared on the TVTropes Forum he got flamed quickly.

469 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:08pm

re: #465 Sergey Romanov

I guess there *is* a room for compromise - as long as religion, indeed, does not interfere with the teaching process, and as long as we try to stay quite up on that slippery slope.

I agree. I find the cultural stuff a lot easier to deal with than attempts to influence the history and science classes. That's the real danger, to me.

And we are failing badly in that regard right now. Not because of Muslims. Because of conservative Christians.

470 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:34pm

re: #98 jaunte

Geller is still at work tagging anything conceivable as creeping sharia.


If you're going to work as a public taxi driver, you need to let people with alcohol and people with dogs, and people with whole roasted pigs wrapped in Saran wrap into the cab.

However, I see no way in which the passenger is deprived of his or her rights by the cab not having an ad for a strip club on it.

471 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:52:59pm

re: #103 recusancy

It's part of having taken sides with the wrong crowd at one point. Sen Byrd still has the albatross of the KKK around his neck even though he left and denounced them a half century ago.

And is dead.

472 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:53:04pm

re: #465 Sergey Romanov

I guess there *is* a room for compromise - as long as religion, indeed, does not interfere with the teaching process, and as long as we try to stay quite up on that slippery slope.

And other children don't feel peer pressure to join-in. . . . .

473 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:53:50pm

re: #463 CuriousLurker

I don't think the increasing Muslim Population in the US will cause any massive adjustments.

I'm still relatively new (>6 months), but our holidays don't seem to be all day affairs.

474 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:09pm

re: #450 ProLifeLiberal

I need a translator for a map I found. What does this map say?

Map in question

It's an overview of various government buildings in the area of the bomb going off (marked "1"). Dept. is short for departement, or ministry, and there are various ministries shown. The red circle shows how windows were blown out hundreds of meters away. I spoke with a friend who was at the intersecting Karl Johan street (main street of Oslo) when the bomb went off, and it was a very, very loud bang.

The (2) says that a man in police uniform has been shooting at Utøya, and that he has eventually been arrested, not much more. But it shows Utøya in relation to Oslo.

475 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:19pm

re: #115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah but a lot of the race-butthurt bullshit in the manifesto differs little from teabagger sentiment. E.g., Europe is socialist and thus weak, Europe is weak because they turned from xianity, Europe is full of f^gs and muslims and n*****s, Liberals/f^gs/atheists/Muslims/n*****s in the US are trying to turn the US into Europe...these are really really really old anti-commie, John Birch Society memes.

Looks like the butthurt jerk in Norway fell for a US export of bigotry. It won't be the first time, either.

Dunno. Europe has a long, ugly history of this sort of thing to draw on themselves.

476 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:54:45pm

re: #464 prononymous

Ok, but how many of those students would have stayed and skipped prayers if it wasn't sponsored and they had no free time or place to do it?

Not sure I follow the question. All of them would have to skip prayers in a US public school, and presumably be forgiven for doing so by the big guy.

Like the Catholics and penance, there is a provision for catching up if circumstances prevent a scheduled prayer. Might be hard on homework time, but where there is a will there is a way.

477 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:55:52pm

re: #474 oslogin

What ministries have suffered damage.

I get the impression that government operation is going to be reduced tomorrow becuase of the loss of office space.

478 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:56:46pm

re: #467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'd addressed this a bit yesterday, but it's important, because we now have a bunch of people believing he's some kind of Pat Robertson devotee. That's a totally wrong impression.

Yeah, well, that's a bit of the impression that I've been trying to correct in Norway, as well. People were picking up "christian" and "conservative" from his FB page, and mentioned that, and suddenly there were some rather odd analysises going on.

479 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:56:51pm

re: #142 BongCrodny

People were really touchy about her back then, weren't they?

Back in the day, on this blog, Sarah Palin was 'our Sarah', and any suggestion that she wasn't perfect led to massive unhappiness.

480 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:57:22pm

re: #451 Naso Tang

I suspect most Muslims like the freedom to choose when they pray, instead of being noticed when they don't, but you will need to ask CL how that plays out in her life today.

I think it's safe to say that most of us would prefer to pray at the designated times as it's considered important, however if one is traveling (and under certain other conditions), the prayers can be delayed.

Since the noon & afternoon prayers are the only ones that fall during school/work hours, rather than make a big fuss over it most of us just wait till we get home and make them up with the post-sunset & nighttime prayers.

481 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:57:35pm

re: #479 SanFranciscoZionist

Back in the day, on this blog, Sarah Palin was 'our Sarah', and any suggestion that she wasn't perfect led to massive unhappiness.

Back then, she seemed to actually be intelligent. Heck, she had me fooled for a while.

482 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:57:45pm

re: #459 oslogin

I don't need Google Translate. I read Dutch. That stuff there is nasty, nasty, nasty stuff.

Do you see any change coming in the monitoring and identifying of this kind of internet sewage, and not just in Norway?

483 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:57:49pm

re: #475 SanFranciscoZionist

Dunno. Europe has a long, ugly history of this sort of thing to draw on themselves.

They do. But if this jackass is a Spencer/Geller devotee, he's also got some teabagger ideals floating around in that pretty little noggin of his, along with fjordman and all the bigoted European-supremacist crap dating back at least to Luther. lol

484 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:58:02pm

re: #479 SanFranciscoZionist

Back in the day, on this blog, Sarah Palin was 'our Sarah', and any suggestion that she wasn't perfect led to massive unhappiness.

REally, I don't remember that.

I remember it being rather split. The guys liked her (well the bathing suit picture, the ones of her holding a shotgun).

I called it the "sexy librarian" phenom.

485 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:58:38pm

re: #469 Obdicut

I agree. I find the cultural stuff a lot easier to deal with than attempts to influence the history and science classes. That's the real danger, to me.

And we are failing badly in that regard right now. Not because of Muslims. Because of conservative Christians.

My idea for compromise would be in after school activities. Then, if they want to form Christian, Muslim, Judaic, or atheist groups they should be free to form groups and activities.

486 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 5:59:47pm

re: #482 Naso Tang

Do you see any change coming in the monitoring and identifying of this kind of internet sewage, and not just in Norway?

It's bound to happen. I've seen Belgian TV, and regular folks on the street are talking about how this could've happened there.

487 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:00:03pm

re: #478 oslogin

Yeah, well, that's a bit of the impression that I've been trying to correct in Norway, as well. People were picking up "christian" and "conservative" from his FB page, and mentioned that, and suddenly there were some rather odd analysises going on.

Agreed. People hear those words over here, and they take on a totally different meaning than in a European context. There's nothing remotely "fundamentalist" in him (people are really good at conflating that with "evangelical Republican-voting conservative") that I can see.

488 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:00:12pm

re: #477 ProLifeLiberal

Sorry if that was insensitive.

489 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:00:39pm

re: #478 oslogin

Yeah, well, that's a bit of the impression that I've been trying to correct in Norway, as well. People were picking up "christian" and "conservative" from his FB page, and mentioned that, and suddenly there were some rather odd analysises going on.

Some serious journalists here are analyzing the manifesto, and they are highlighting the Lind references & writings on cultural marxism, which date back to late 90's & Pat Buchanan brigade days. What I'm trying to figure out is whether the culture war part of that Frankfurt school conspiracy theory came to us from Europe in the 90's from the Eurofascists, or whether they picked it up from us. What's your opinion on it?

490 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:00:43pm

re: #485 Gus 802

My idea for compromise would be in after school activities. Then, if they want to form Christian, Muslim, Judaic, or atheist groups they should be free to form groups and activities.

People do that now, but not in interacting groups.

491 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:00:50pm

re: #485 Gus 802

My idea for compromise would be in after school activities. Then, if they want to form Christian, Muslim, Judaic, or atheist groups they should be free to form groups and activities.

Then it should be done at their house of worship.

Again, I have problems with these issues. The pressure to join-in is difficult to overcome. Kids who don't want to "practice their faith" out side of the family (where they probably don't have a choice) should be able to see public school as a respite.

I know I certainly appreciated it.

492 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:01:21pm

re: #484 ggt

REally, I don't remember that.

I remember it being rather split. The guys liked her (well the bathing suit picture, the ones of her holding a shotgun).

I called it the "sexy librarian" phenom.

Yeah, that old photoshop hooked a lot of dupes.

493 avanti  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:01:32pm

re: #126 SpaceJesus

i wonder who holds the record for most downdings in a single post. i must have been close.

Ah, the good old days when I was one of the few resident lefty, Commies. / I expected Charles to drop the hammer on me when I was in the minus few 100's thanks to TFK.

494 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:02:16pm

re: #487 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There are fundamentalists associated with the European fascists, SSPX and Cyriel Verschaeve come to mind, but they are much different that US fundamentalists.

495 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:04:20pm

re: #473 ProLifeLiberal

I don't think the increasing Muslim Population in the US will cause any massive adjustments.

I'm still relatively new (>6 months), but our holidays don't seem to be all day affairs.

Well there are only two to begin with, Eid ul-Fitr (post-Ramadan) & Eid ul-Adha (post-Hajj). Eid ul-Fitr celebrations can last up to 3-4 days depending on the country, but the holiday itself is just one day.

496 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:06:50pm

re: #207 laZardo

From BBC:

I hope he finishes his sentence prematurely. If you know what I mean.

They'll never put someone like that in gen pop, or whatever the Norwegian version is.

What I would prefer is that they also don't give him paper.

497 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:07:45pm

My kid has had a day long melt-down.

I am so glad I don't have to do 17 over again.

498 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:07:56pm

re: #491 ggt

Then it should be done at their house of worship.

Again, I have problems with these issues. The pressure to join-in is difficult to overcome. Kids who don't want to "practice their faith" out side of the family (where they probably don't have a choice) should be able to see public school as a respite.

I know I certainly appreciated it.

My cynical mode is kicking in: There is little point in talking of changing, in any dramatic way, how religions cooperate (tolerate) with each other that hasn't been tried for thousands of years already.

Let us face the fact that any groups that believe only they have the ear of the creator of the universe, and the others are dead wrong, can only go so far in that regard.

I mean take the example of Washington. God tells one side that taxes are the cause of all evil, and the atheists say no way./ What is to compromise about?

499 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:08:01pm

re: #491 ggt

Then it should be done at their house of worship.

Again, I have problems with these issues. The pressure to join-in is difficult to overcome. Kids who don't want to "practice their faith" out side of the family (where they probably don't have a choice) should be able to see public school as a respite.

I know I certainly appreciated it.

I suppose there could be that type of pressure. Oh well. I don't know.

500 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:08:55pm

I just found something on Wikinews under the opinions tab for the story on this massacre. Makes me sick

I did the Wiki provide IP address tracker thing.

The clown comes from South Africa.

501 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:09:07pm

re: #497 ggt

My kid has had a day long melt-down.

I am so glad I don't have to do 17 over again.

The heat has made everyone around here crazed. You take your chances not getting run over in the WalMart parking lot at the moment.

502 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:09:15pm

re: #212 Bulworth

I am shocked, shocked I say, to discover that this guy hated women.

//

Seriously, it's pretty amazing how similar the jihadists and the "counter-jihadists" are on many points, particularly the rights of women. That must be why they hate each other so much--they're very much alike.

Someone made a 'the workers control the means of reproduction' joke above...but it's one of the reasons that people like this are so averse to feminism. They fail to sell the idea that raising big families for the good of the state is a fun activity, so they start to get coercive.

Absolut Nazi.

503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:09:51pm

re: #489 Thanos

Some serious journalists here are analyzing the manifesto, and they are highlighting the Lind references & writings on cultural marxism, which date back to late 90's & Pat Buchanan brigade days. What I'm trying to figure out is whether the culture war part of that Frankfurt school conspiracy theory came to us from Europe in the 90's from the Eurofascists, or whether they picked it up from us. What's your opinion on it?

You didn't ask me, but I have a feeling there's a lot of butthurt feeling in Europe among their rwnj against the Frankfurt school, on their own. I'm guessing Breivik, EDL, etc. aren't big fans of Habermas, for example. /

It gets complicated by the fact that the Frankfurt school ended up in the USA, where they got a chance to promote their theories on grand scale. So it's probably a lot of both.

504 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:10:10pm

re: #385 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I read what you wrote.

The view is not unique to Breivik, Hitler, or any other European fascists.

Crankodoodle Muslims believe it. Cultural/politically conservative Christians in the US believe it. Self-identified "Jewish Nationalist" bigots like Aunt Milty bent over like fjordman believe it. Black nationalists, all 17 of them, believe in it. It's old-hat stuff, DF.

I know. I just wanted to explain out the loon's philosophy a bit.

I stepped away to let things cool down a bit.

505 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:10:19pm

re: #214 SpaceJesus

anybody else see this editorial in the jerusalem post?

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Fuck 'em.

506 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:10:33pm

re: #281 austin_blue

Amen, Brother!

Seriously. Buy someone a bottle of water tomorrow, if you can. Hope it cools down a bit soon.

507 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:10:40pm

re: #500 ProLifeLiberal

I just found something on Wikinews under the opinions tab for the story on this massacre. Makes me sick

I did the Wiki provide IP address tracker thing.

The clown comes from South Africa.

He's in my prayers also, usually accompanied by the words "burn in hell" and "soon".

508 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:11:04pm

re: #485 Gus 802

My idea for compromise would be in after school activities. Then, if they want to form Christian, Muslim, Judaic, or atheist groups they should be free to form groups and activities.

They already have that.

509 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:11:30pm

I'm out for the rest of the night. Laters.

510 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:12:39pm

re: #504 Dark_Falcon

I know. I just wanted to explain out the loon's philosophy a bit.

I stepped away to let things cool down a bit.

The loon's philosophy is no different from yours, as re: Arabphobia and anti-Muslim discrimination.

If you felt things getting hot in here that was due to your own statements, and no one else's.

511 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:12:44pm

re: #500 ProLifeLiberal

I just found something on Wikinews under the opinions tab for the story on this massacre. Makes me sick

I did the Wiki provide IP address tracker thing.

The clown comes from South Africa.

Let me guess: Afrikkaner Nationalist, right?

512 Randall Gross  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:13:02pm

re: #500 ProLifeLiberal

re: #503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Trying to figure out where the "Gramscian whore of the caliphate" far right meme really started.

513 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:13:56pm

re: #461 ggt

No, I don't think so. I really think DF is reacting to the visual effect of the photo in the article. As I've said before it is effective propaganda.

Both the Whacko Christians and Muslims have ways of bending logic to suit their needs.

After 9/11 we learned all kinds of new things about the Muslim faith that we weren't exposed to before. The Christian version is old hat. The fear is that they will use our goodwill (civil rights, democracy) to control us.

What is new seems the most dangerous . . ..we are vulnerable to what we don't understand.

There are plenty of Whacko Christian sects that have carved little niches for themselves (The Sect in Texas that had their kids taken away comes to mind for me). If we have to live with them, then we have to live with all others.

Whackos of all persuasions scare the shit out of me. Just the idea of "one more" to deal with is overwhelming.

My husband would be ranting about it for days before he calmed down. Maybe it's a guy thing?

Fair enough. But a headscarf and praying, while an indicator for certain religions, isn't necessarily an indicator of failure to assimilate. No more than wearing a cross and not working sundays is an indicator of failure to assimilate. And speaking to his broader point of multiculturalism as a failure I would suggest that incomplete assimilation within the first few generations isn't an indication of such failure. Full assimilation into a culture takes time and it certainly doesn't help that process if they are ostracized or never allowed entry in the first place. Ostracized groups are exactly the types that become insular, hard for us to penetrate and understand, and can become more easily radicalized.

re: #476 Naso Tang

Not sure I follow the question. All of them would have to skip prayers in a US public school, and presumably be forgiven for doing so by the big guy.

Like the Catholics and penance, there is a provision for catching up if circumstances prevent a scheduled prayer. Might be hard on homework time, but where there is a will there is a way.

Well it also depends on how important they consider those prayers. Most students probably don't want to make up classwork over something that they don't consider significant. But you are right, they could leave if it isn't something they could do on their own during a free period. I don't approve of a sponsored prayer time, but accommodating a religious necessity is fine. I don't see how it is any different just because they are Muslims.

514 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:14:22pm

re: #508 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They already have that.

Then everything's groovy.

515 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:14:33pm

re: #504 Dark_Falcon

I know. I just wanted to explain out the loon's philosophy a bit.

I stepped away to let things cool down a bit.

Is your whole antipathy to Arab immigration the whole go along to get along, status quo, fear of change thing again? You acknowledge that the same arguments were used against Jews, but don't condemn the arguments. You've said before that during the Revolutionary war you'd have been a Tory, so I'm just wondering if you even care about the integrity of the argument you're making or if it's all about your desire for consistency?

516 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:15:36pm

re: #512 Thanos

re: #503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Trying to figure out where the "Gramscian whore of the caliphate" far right meme really started.

With the anti-Iraq war protests having both a far-left and a Muslim component. That junction was extrapolated into a full-fledged alliance.

517 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:16:02pm

re: #512 Thanos

re: #503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Trying to figure out where the "Gramscian whore of the caliphate" far right meme really started.

Can't say about that phrase, specifically, but I surmise all their anti-Marxism has antisemitic roots.

518 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:16:25pm

re: #511 Dark_Falcon

He's using an IP address, so I can only narrow it down so far.

However, the name attached to the IP I found is definitely of Dutch descent.

519 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:17:11pm

I need some ice, cigarettes, snacks and a break. BBL

520 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:17:40pm

re: #235 ProLifeLiberal

And the comments are horrific too. One said that since the Youth Party Meeting has been critical of Israel, it deserved to happen.

Holy shit.

Anyone in my local political circles who breathes a word of that shit is going to get smacked upside the head.

521 SpaceJesus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:18:06pm

re: #493 avanti


Yeah, I thought for sure given lgf's conservative reputation (I came from either Kos or Somethingawful, don't remember which anymore) that I would be banned in about 5 minutes.

522 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:18:33pm

re: #515 goddamnedfrank

Is your whole antipathy to Arab immigration the whole go along to get along, status quo, fear of change thing again? You acknowledge that the same arguments were used against Jews, but don't condemn the arguments. You've said before that during the Revolutionary war you'd have been a Tory, so I'm just wondering if you even care about the integrity of the argument you're making or if it's all about your desire for consistency?

The consistency is Arab-hate, and more importantly, keeping around the rationale for legalized discrimination/dhimmitude.

523 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:19:03pm

re: #518 ProLifeLiberal

He's using an IP address, so I can only narrow it down so far.

However, the name attached to the IP I found is definitely of Dutch descent.

That's what I suspected. There are still some hard-core white nationalists down there, and most of them are of Afrikkaner origin.

524 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:19:16pm

re: #513 prononymous

I don't approve of a sponsored prayer time, but accommodating a religious necessity is fine. I don't see how it is any different just because they are Muslims.

I don't think you understand. There is no distinction between religious necessities. Prayer is only one of them and all are equally important, which is why none should be given exception in public schools.

That is why there are so many religious schools. They can go there if that is what is most important to them (without vouchers).

525 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:19:44pm

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

Well, multiculturalism is a failure. And it is a fact that its proponents will try to use this rampage to paint all opposition to it as tainted by this loon. So saying that:

is to me nothing more than a statement of fact.

I don't get it. What they're actually saying is: if you link this sort of behavior to the 'anti-jihadi' rhetoric flying around, you're missing the point completely--even though the killer himself linked it to that rhetoric, and it matches the rhetoric.

Where's the fact?

Not to mention the definition of 'multiculturalism' to many of these people is simply 'not forcing immigrants to eat ham sandwiches'.

526 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:19:55pm

re: #521 SpaceJesus

Yeah, I thought for sure given lgf's conservative reputation (I came from either Kos or Somethingawful, don't remember which anymore) that I would be banned in about 5 minutes.

I thought you came from Space Mary.

527 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:20:15pm

re: #511 Dark_Falcon

Let me guess: Afrikkaner Nationalist, right?

Afrikaner Nationalists learned everything they know from states rights conservative bigots in the US.

They didn't even implement their version of apartheid until ours was getting ready to die its last breath.

528 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:20:15pm

re: #251 Dark_Falcon

All that means is that I've looked at the policy and found it faulty.

What is the policy?

529 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:20:23pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

530 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:20:28pm

re: #512 Thanos

re: #503 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Trying to figure out where the "Gramscian whore of the caliphate" far right meme really started.

Someone who once had the title of "Lizard Operative". Parted ways with LGF a while back. Has own blog.

531 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:20:44pm

re: #521 SpaceJesus

Yeah, I thought for sure given lgf's conservative reputation (I came from either Kos or Somethingawful, don't remember which anymore) that I would be banned in about 5 minutes.

Whats the point? You would have been back in 3 days anyways.

532 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:20:47pm

re: #522 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The consistency is Arab-hate, and more importantly, keeping around the rationale for legalized discrimination/dhimmitude.

I'm not that sort of hater, and I'm not going to go into this again. It stresses me out on a night when I need to relax.

533 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:21:54pm

re: #525 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't get it. What they're actually saying is: if you link this sort of behavior to the 'anti-jihadi' rhetoric flying around, you're missing the point completely--even though the killer himself linked it to that rhetoric, and it matches the rhetoric.

Where's the fact?

Not to mention the definition of 'multiculturalism' to many of these people is simply 'not forcing immigrants to eat ham sandwiches'.

DF doesn't have a definition of so-called "multiculturalism".

I'd like to know what it is, myself, but he runs away when asked.

534 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:22:04pm

re: #521 SpaceJesus

Yeah, I thought for sure given lgf's conservative reputation (I came from either Kos or Somethingawful, don't remember which anymore) that I would be banned in about 5 minutes.

You took a few lumps..As did Avanti and a few others..
It was pretty funny.. You guys stayed true to yourselves...I like that...

535 Petero1818  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:22:46pm

re: #414 CuriousLurker

Well, I'm not familiar with the laws in Canada, so I can't comment ion that part. But here is not Canada, and we obviously DO have laws about it. Yeah, if other prayers aren't allowed in schools, then Muslims can't be allowed either.

I have to wonder though, if D_F would be equally opposed to Christian prayer in schools. And what about federal holidays that are religious, like Christmas? Big can of worms there...

Technically it is not legal in Canada. I am Canadian and live in Toronto and have followed this issue. The school is some 80% Muslim. Basically the principal was sick of seeing a large part of the student body peel out of school at lunch on Friday and not come back. It is a challenging issue.

THe main difference between this and the experience of Jews assimilation or not, is that Jews never made demands on the public system for accommodation. Ever. Jews were never used to being a majority, and were not a proselytizing religion. Therefore never had any ambition to be a majority, or want to emulate their past experience from wherever they came from.

Throughout the Western World, Muslims have indeed made demands on the public system, Look at the movement to ban pork form soup kitchens in France.
That fact and their birth rates, make the discussion of the impact on muslim immigration on multiculturalism a very live debate. They are difficult issues for sure.
I personally have no problem with Muslim immigration. I do however believe that we, just as Europe has now, will face tensions in society from muslim immigrants whose values may be inconsistent with our own as embodied in our Charter, and our laws. Their numbers, and the birth rates as well as it being a proselytizing religion, mean that the dangers are far different than those that were talked about when Jews were immigrating.

536 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:22:54pm

re: #527 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Afrikaner Nationalists learned everything they know from states rights conservative bigots in the US.

They didn't even implement their version of apartheid until ours was getting ready to die its last breath.

Not really true. Apartheid had its origins domestically within South Africa, though many of the emotions that drove it were the same.

537 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:22:56pm

re: #525 SanFranciscoZionist

Not to mention the definition of 'multiculturalism' to many of these people is simply 'not forcing immigrants to eat ham sandwiches'.

That's the problem that I have with the idea.

Who's definition are we depending upon?

538 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:23:37pm

re: #522 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The consistency is Arab-hate, and more importantly, keeping around the rationale for legalized discrimination/dhimmitude.

I know, but for D_F consistency is simply maintaining what he's used to. He's expressed before an inability to deal with change. It's easy (and tempting) to attack him over it, I vacillate between exhaustion, pity and anger myself, but at least he's honest about it and doesn't pretend to be something he's not.

539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:23:45pm

re: #534 HoosierHoops

Hoops! What's your temperature there? Got any grass?

540 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:24:19pm

re: #532 Dark_Falcon

I'm not that sort of hater, and I'm not going to go into this again. It stresses me out on a night when I need to relax.

Then you should have thought of that before making and defending dhimmitude statements.

541 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:24:37pm

It doesn't matter who ran the camp. It doesn't matter what Norway's politics are.

He hunted down and shot children.

Period. Full stop. End of discussion.

Anyone who even thinks that those reasons enter into the discussion has lost the right to even open their fucking mouths on the topic.

542 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:25:05pm

re: #539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hoops! What's your temperature there? Got any grass?

Wait! That came out wrong. How is the greenery doing in OK? Or is it already "brownery"?

543 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:25:07pm

re: #315 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

He's an anti-Arab bigot, who thinks "Arabs" are only good for deposing of our oil, which is currently being stored under their homes.

I think you do too much knee jerk simplification at times.

544 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:25:19pm

re: #533 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

DF doesn't have a definition of so-called "multiculturalism".

I'd like to know what it is, myself, but he runs away when asked.

It involves putting soy sauce on your Texmex.

545 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:25:24pm

re: #534 HoosierHoops

You took a few lumps..As did Avanti and a few others..
It was pretty funny.. You guys stayed true to yourselves...I like that...

I remember picking a fight or two with avanti, back in the day. To avanti - I'm sorry. We probably still won't see eye-to-eye, but I can at least man up and try to get along.

546 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:26:21pm

re: #539 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hoops! What's your temperature there? Got any grass?

It's horrible here...Something like 30 straight days of 100+ temps...
I hate the summer in Oklahoma

547 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:26:53pm

My internet is being a tard again.

The guy is like Poe's Law incarnate. His Comments are viciously anti-Gay, anti-Muslim, and anti-minority.

Many pictures I have seen of Prime Minister Stoltenberg have him with a 1,000 yard stare. He's going to have PTSD after this.

548 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:27:13pm

re: #541 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It doesn't matter who ran the camp. It doesn't matter what Norway's politics are.

He hunted down and shot children.

Period. Full stop. End of discussion.

Anyone who even thinks that those reasons enter into the discussion has lost the right to even open their fucking mouths on the topic.

Quite Concur.

549 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:27:18pm

re: #538 goddamnedfrank

I know, but for D_F consistency is simply maintaining what he's used to. He's expressed before an inability to deal with change. It's easy (and tempting) to attack him over it, I vacillate between exhaustion, pity and anger myself, but at least he's honest about it and doesn't pretend to be something he's not.

Yeah, it doesn't take long to figure out where he is coming from. I'm not giving him a pass on his cultural/political/moral laziness, but that's not an attack, either.

He made the statements. Like anyone else here, he gets to be accountable to statements made, without passes.

550 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:27:30pm

re: #267 Charles

"We are a love blog!"

"Comments closed until further notice."

Oh ha haha ha. Help, I can't stop laughing at that one!

The love blog is a little old place
Where we can get together
Love blog, baby
(A love blog, baby)
Love blog, baby, love blog
Love blog, baby, love blog

Sign says, 'Stay away fools'
'Cause love rules at the love blog
Well, it's set way back in the middle of a field
Just a funky old blog and it's kind of a slog...

551 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:28:17pm

re: #547 ProLifeLiberal

My internet is being a tard again.

The guy is like Poe's Law incarnate. His Comments are viciously anti-Gay, anti-Muslim, and anti-minority.

Many pictures I have seen of Prime Minister Stoltenberg have him with a 1,000 yard stare. He's going to have PTSD after this.

Which guy?

552 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:28:28pm

re: #543 Naso Tang

I think you do too much knee jerk simplification at times.

The post came from stuff DF said himself, about easy access to oil, and Arab immigration. It's not kneejerk, or a simplification.

553 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:28:39pm

re: #547 ProLifeLiberal

Many pictures I have seen of Prime Minister Stoltenberg have him with a 1,000 yard stare. He's going to have PTSD after this.

The picture that Charles posted in last night's Pamela Geller thread was haunting. The man must be feeling the weight of the world on his shoulders right now.

554 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:28:44pm

re: #546 HoosierHoops

This year is an anomaly. Wait until next year.

It'll heat back up to normal.

555 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:29:20pm

re: #280 goddamnedfrank

Breivik's been planning this shit for nine years as a goddamned marketing operation, but Charles's refusal to go along with the crowd is what made him finally do it?

I was joking yesterday about Pamela wearing Camelbak full of Bombay Saphire, but this is some seriously addled thinking.

It's meant, I think, as a flip way of further distancing responsibility for any part of this.

"Haha, you say he liked my writing, what a hoot--he was all mad when Charles went lefty, maybe THAT'S what did it! Huh? Ya think?"

556 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:29:21pm

It's cooled a bit since the storms, but we still have the humidity in my part of Chicagoland.

557 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:30:25pm

re: #544 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It involves putting soy sauce on your Texmex.

Well in that case I agree! Why, it's like making Christian children pray to Allah like they do in...France or wherever!

558 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:30:49pm

re: #555 SanFranciscoZionist

It's meant, I think, as a flip way of further distancing responsibility for any part of this.

"Haha, you say he liked my writing, what a hoot--he was all mad when Charles went lefty, maybe THAT'S what did it! Huh? Ya think?"

This guy made a serious decision sometime before he was 23 to NOT be part of the world at large, but to rage against it.

Intelligent and educated, he could have chosen a different path. . . . .

559 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:31:17pm

re: #541 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Great post.

560 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:31:44pm

re: #552 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The post came from stuff DF said himself, about easy access to oil, and Arab immigration. It's not kneejerk, or a simplification.

Yes you is, grasshopper.

561 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:32:07pm

re: #282 Naso Tang

I've been out and haven't read all this, but in the OP I couldn't help but stop on the bit about "Feminism".

WTF does Feminism (presumably meaning advancing women's rights) have to do with anti-Jihadism? Jihadism is also strongly against Feminism.

The more I read this stuff the more it seems identical to extreme Islamists chatter. They are just mirror images of each other.

Feminism has to do with 'anti-Jihadism' in this sense exactly what feminism had to do with Naziism--it is a deterrent.

If Europeans are to keep the upper hand demographically, and also maintain their 'cultural heritage' in the face of the ravening Islamic horde, then women must NOT be in a position to place any activity ahead of motherhood, and boys and men must not be weakened by feminine principles or ideas in society.

Hence, women need to be at home, havin' babies and bein' saintly, and praying for the men who go out to conquer, preserve and protect (and also, if the Nazis were any model, rape).

That's what.

562 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:32:45pm

re: #546 HoosierHoops

Hoosier? By the way... my avatar is my dog! Tell Winston that Rocky says "Hey!"

563 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:33:28pm

re: #283 Dark_Falcon

They almost have to lie. If they were to admit fault, then they would have rendered themselves politically irrelevant, since who would listen to someone whose ideas helped prime a physco for mass murder.

I'd listen, at least respectfully, to someone who at this moment could say "I'm still against jihad, but I am sobered by the idea that someone reading my work could take that as inspiration to kill innocents. I weep for the victims, and will take care to make my nonviolent beliefs ever clearer in my writings against Islamic radicalism."

564 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:17pm

re: #552 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You're reading things into my words that are not there. I want the Arab nations to produce more than just oil and I'm fine with the US investing in those nations and providing development aid. I want to help them, I'm not some South African asshole who wants to keep them in perpetual poverty. However, while I want to help the people there, I'm afraid I must say that I do not fully trust them. Back when Sicilians were immigrating to Chicago in large numbers, there were no large demonstrations in Sicily calling for attacks on America. The hate-America virus is strong in the Middle East, and that drives my concern more than anything.

565 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:25pm

re: #561 SanFranciscoZionist

Feminism has to do with 'anti-Jihadism' in this sense exactly what feminism had to do with Naziism--it is a deterrent.

If Europeans are to keep the upper hand demographically, and also maintain their 'cultural heritage' in the face of the ravening Islamic horde, then women must NOT be in a position to place any activity ahead of motherhood, and boys and men must not be weakened by feminine principles or ideas in society.

Hence, women need to be at home, havin' babies and bein' saintly, and praying for the men who go out to conquer, preserve and protect (and also, if the Nazis were any model, rape).

That's what.

Kinder, Küche, Kirche

566 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:30pm

re: #532 Dark_Falcon

I'm not that sort of hater,

You're the kind of hater who advocates immigration quotas based on ancestry and national origin. Don't say you're not, because you just said you are.

BTW, just a reminder: those are illegal, now. We're not changing them to suit your personal comfort levels.

567 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:34:56pm

re: #296 Thanos

Now she's follow up with an article on sharia taking over cabs ... Mohan Singh is complaining about strip club ads. The problem with sharia and Mohan Singh is that both his surname and given name are Sikh names, not Muslim. She is as dim as they come.

I'm seeing a lot of 'use' of Sikhs to slur Muslims. People write about honor killings or forced marriages, and link to articles interviewing victims with Sikh names, but their commentary is all about Islam, and how uniquely awful it is.

568 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:35:02pm

re: #560 Naso Tang

Yes you is, grasshopper.

Is I?

9_9

569 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:35:04pm

re: #556 ggt

It's cooled a bit since the storms, but we still have the humidity in my part of Chicagoland.

This is stupid...There isn't a day under like 102 in our future.. They say we may break the all time record of 50 straight days over 100 degrees..
I have a walk to the office from where I park...
I curse a lot...This effen sucks big time..I hate it.. Sucks! I curse all the way to the door under my breath

570 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:35:04pm

re: #561 SanFranciscoZionist

Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen eh? That's been around long long before anyone knew what a muselman was.

571 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:35:55pm

re: #551 Dark_Falcon

Mr. Afrikaner.

572 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:36:02pm

re: #567 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm seeing a lot of 'use' of Sikhs to slur Muslims. People write about honor killings or forced marriages, and link to articles interviewing victims with Sikh names, but their commentary is all about Islam, and how uniquely awful it is.

Sikhs also were targeted for killings by the bigots after 9/11.

573 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:36:20pm

re: #563 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd listen, at least respectfully, to someone who at this moment could say "I'm still against jihad, but I am sobered by the idea that someone reading my work could take that as inspiration to kill innocents. I weep for the victims, and will take care to make my nonviolent beliefs ever clearer in my writings against Islamic radicalism."

Most of those folks like Geller and Coulter don't really want to do that. They see that as making a concession and like Grover Norquist on taxes they see any concession as intolerable.

574 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:36:35pm

re: #570 Naso Tang

Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen eh? That's been around long long before anyone knew what a muselman was.

And living in poverty and dog tired all the time.

Much easier to control a poor and tired population. You can manipulation them with the promise of a "day off" or free bread.

575 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:36:43pm

re: #328 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hitler card. Rejected.

That idea is no different from the social conservative Christians in the United States who believe the exact same thing. The NOI and Black nationalists also believe the exact same thing.

The idea long predates stupid Hitler and is not unique to European facsists.

It is not, but three guesses where most of this guy's influence toward it came from.

576 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:36:54pm

re: #562 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hoosier? By the way... my avatar is my dog! Tell Winston that Rocky says "Hey!"

Dang..He is cute!

577 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:37:09pm

re: #547 ProLifeLiberal

My internet is being a tard again.

The guy is like Poe's Law incarnate. His Comments are viciously anti-Gay, anti-Muslim, and anti-minority.

Yep, it's a dumb socon bigot.

578 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:37:14pm

re: #410 Charles

Been exchanging emails with a reporter for NPR's NY affiliate today. Should be an interesting week.

Nice. I thought you might be able to provide a unique perspective on events that most of the MSM would probably be missing.
I'm glad someone had the sense to give you a call.

579 HAL2010  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:37:44pm

Damnit, I came here for a quick update on the few posts I've missed, and it's now after 03.35 here in Stockholm. THANKS!

In all seriousness, this place is great, I really enjoy the debates and the intelligence of the discussions - you don't find that in too many other places.

Anyway, rant and praise over, I am finally going to bed.

Have a great one, and I will try to post more and lurk less in the near future.

Sleep tight.

580 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:37:53pm

re: #576 HoosierHoops

Four and a half pounds of thunder, baby!

581 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:38:17pm

People on both sides of the aisle seem to think EVERYTHING is a zero-sum game.

We only see one-side of it depending on which administration is in power.

It's that kind of thinking that prevents any progress.

582 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:38:41pm

re: #569 HoosierHoops

This is stupid...There isn't a day under like 102 in our future.. They say we may break the all time record of 50 straight days over 100 degrees..
I have a walk to the office from where I park...
I curse a lot...This effen sucks big time..I hate it.. Sucks! I curse all the way to the door under my breath

79 was the high today in San Diego...... on the coast anyway.

583 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:38:43pm

re: #571 ProLifeLiberal

Mr. Afrikaner.

GGT, PLL wasn't calling me "Mr. Afrikaner". He was talking about this vile loon from South Africa he's tracked down. Please reverse your downding.

584 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:39:55pm

re: #360 prononymous

So assimilation means that Muslims have to stop praying to their deity?

I wish Christians would assimilate already. ///

The Toronto story is reasonably problematic, but I am prone to blame the school (and district and board) for having lost their goddamn minds as much as the actual Muslims involved.

585 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:40:02pm

re: #583 Dark_Falcon

GGT, PLL wasn't calling me "Mr. Afrikaner". He was talking about this vile loon from South Africa he's tracked down. Please reverse your downding.

ah! Thought it was odd.

I don't like name calling, regardless of who is involved.

Well, if a sarc tag is used, it's different.

:)

586 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:40:02pm

re: #575 SanFranciscoZionist

It is not, but three guesses where most of this guy's influence toward it came from.

Hard to tell in the internet age. Especially when he cribs Spencer and fjordman so much, at least in that stupid manifesto.

587 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:40:18pm

re: #561 SanFranciscoZionist

If Europeans are to keep the upper hand demographically, and also maintain their 'cultural heritage' in the face of the ravening Islamic horde, then women must NOT be in a position to place any activity ahead of motherhood, and boys and men must not be weakened by feminine principles or ideas in society.


There are a lot of people screaming about 'demographic winter' lately.

Though their [Population Research Institute] homepage makes the euphemistic claim that “every family should have the right to choose the timing and spacing of their children,” one of the featured actions for visitors is to sign the “Stop the Freedom of Choice Act” petition. This proves their real concern for families is that they act as reliable demographic factories.[Link: www.populationmedia.org...]
588 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:40:31pm

Oh hey, actual Canadian here. Mind if I jump in?

Key piece of information about this story. It takes place in Toronto.

This is important for two reasons. One, Toronto has an absolutely massive immigrant population, making it entirely possible that this school is majority muslim. And two, Toronto is home to the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

From the wiki link:

The Toronto Catholic District School Board (TCDSB) is the publicly-funded Catholic school board for Toronto, Ontario, Canada, headquartered in North York.[4] It is one of the two English boards of education in the City of Toronto, serving the former municipalities of Scarborough, North York, York, East York, Toronto and Etobicoke. With over 91,000 students, the TCDSB is one of the largest school boards in Canada.

Yup, Toronto has a massive, publicly funded religious school system. If you're Catholic. So the level of "religious consideration" given to Muslim students is NOTHING compared to an entire, separate school system. That Muslim taxes are funding. Along with Atheists, Jews, etc. The budget is something like a billion dollars (seriously, its listed on wikipedia).

But of course a government funded school board has to take any student who applies right?

Enrolment of non-Catholics
While Catholic high schools are funded by the provincial crown, making them open to any students who wish to attend, elementary schools do not have to enroll non-Catholic students. Many argue that the practice of fully funding separate schools exclusively for the Catholic faith is discriminatory to other religions (i.e.the United Nations has twice chastised the province for this policy). Supporters of the current Catholic education system point out that it has existed, in some form or another, since Confederation, and that the Constitution Act, 1867, enshrines the right to government-funded religious education to all Catholics. The opposition, however, argues that this is an appeal to tradition and point to other provinces in Canada which amended the constitution to abolish Catholic school funding.

Well thats too bad.

So when you see this kind of concession made to other religious groups, as tends to happen every few years, its usually to avoid a full blown shit storm in Toronto over the Catholic Schools. Personally I think its pretty gross, but they also tend to outperform their secular counterparts. Its damn tricky, and things like what the article outlined are part of a much larger, older debate in Canada over the nature of religious education in Canada

//Canada rant off.

589 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:40:42pm

re: #583 Dark_Falcon

GGT, PLL wasn't calling me "Mr. Afrikaner". He was talking about this vile loon from South Africa he's tracked down. Please reverse your downding.

You put that much stock in downdings? Really DF?

590 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:42:07pm

re: #588 McSpiff

Oh hey, actual Canadian here. Mind if I jump in?

Key piece of information about this story. It takes place in Toronto.

This is important for two reasons. One, Toronto has an absolutely massive immigrant population, making it entirely possible that this school is majority muslim. And two, Toronto is home to the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

From the wiki link:

Yup, Toronto has a massive, publicly funded religious school system. If you're Catholic. So the level of "religious consideration" given to Muslim students is NOTHING compared to an entire, separate school system. That Muslim taxes are funding. Along with Atheists, Jews, etc. The budget is something like a billion dollars (seriously, its listed on wikipedia).

But of course a government funded school board has to take any student who applies right?

Well thats too bad.

So when you see this kind of concession made to other religious groups, as tends to happen every few years, its usually to avoid a full blown shit storm in Toronto over the Catholic Schools. Personally I think its pretty gross, but they also tend to outperform their secular counterparts. Its damn tricky, and things like what the article outlined are part of a much larger, older debate in Canada over the nature of religious education in Canada

//Canada rant off.

WHOA!

591 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:42:14pm

re: #582 Mr Pancakes

79 was the high today in San Diego... on the coast anyway.

You may of well have said, "No, Mr. Bond! I expect you to die!"

You. Are. Evil.

592 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:43:06pm

re: #589 Mr Pancakes

You put that much stock in downdings? Really DF?

No, but I wanted GGT to not think ill of PLL when she shouldn't.

593 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:43:30pm

re: #405 Obdicut

I completely agree. But it seems like an anomaly to me. Dearborn, Michigan doesn't have such things going on, and it's got a massive Muslim population.

Yeah. This. The Toronto thing is anomalous, not a trend indicator, IMNSHO.

And it's being protested by parents in the district, and they're working on it.

594 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:43:47pm

re: #588 McSpiff

The hammer, she has been thrown down.

595 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:44:10pm

I'm just making a quick scroll of the comments but I'll jump in and defend Dark Falcon. There are plenty of reasons to take issue with "multiculturalism", depending on how you define it. There are extreme leftists who believe all cultures and societies are equally awesome and groovy no matter how brutal, archaic and backwards they may be. It's simply not true. These are usually the same folks that want to erase all national borders created by European colonialism and then it'll be all peace and unicorns. Code Pink and ANSWER come to mind off the top of my head. Lyndon Larouche too.

596 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:44:49pm

re: #414 CuriousLurker

Well, I'm not familiar with the laws in Canada, so I can't comment ion that part. But here is not Canada, and we obviously DO have laws about it. Yeah, if other prayers aren't allowed in schools, then Muslims can't be allowed either.

I have to wonder though, if D_F would be equally opposed to Christian prayer in schools. And what about federal holidays that are religious, like Christmas? Big can of worms there...

Some years ago, I was teaching at a middle school in Alameda. I still recall standing in the lobby, as the school 'Caroleers' from the band played "Silent Night".

The lead flute-player was an Afghani kid wearing a headscarf.

597 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:03pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Some years ago, I was teaching at a middle school in Alameda. I still recall standing in the lobby, as the school 'Caroleers' from the band played "Silent Night".

The lead flute-player was an Afghani kid wearing a headscarf.

I love Alameda...I lived on Bay Farm for about 6 months...Did I say I love Alameda? I like Park Street also

598 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:22pm

re: #421 Naso Tang

Christian prayers in schools are not allowed, on school time (out of deference to Muslims and others, among other reasons) and you say you know that, so I don't understand the question.

Christian prayers in school are totally allowed. If it is a Christian school, or if students wish to meet and pray together on their own time at school.

Not to mention the 'secular' school activities for Christian holidays.

And Muslims have no more to do with it than a dozen or two other groups who got sick of having Protestantism in the public schools.

599 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:30pm

re: #592 Dark_Falcon

I realized the name attached might pull something up on Google:

Ockert Van Schalkwyk

Unfortunately, there are alot of them running around.

600 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:32pm

re: #569 HoosierHoops

This is stupid...There isn't a day under like 102 in our future.. They say we may break the all time record of 50 straight days over 100 degrees..
I have a walk to the office from where I park...
I curse a lot...This effen sucks big time..I hate it.. Sucks! I curse all the way to the door under my breath

Aw, just remember these days next February.

Americans, we just complain, complain, complain . .

601 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:35pm

re: #594 thedopefishlives

The hammer, she has been thrown down.

Not trying to step on any toes, its just that anytime you see the words "religion", "school", "Toronto" it gets way more complicated than most people would assume.

602 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:37pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Some years ago, I was teaching at a middle school in Alameda. I still recall standing in the lobby, as the school 'Caroleers' from the band played "Silent Night".

The lead flute-player was an Afghani kid wearing a headscarf.

Obviously taqiyya.
/

603 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:51pm

re: #443 oslogin

Sorry for not being here today, guys. I've been running from interview to interview, and was flown to Oslo by the state broadcaster for a debate, so it's a been a busy day. That said, lots of information is coming out in English now, so who needs a Norwegian translator anyway.

Oh, gosh! You being here yesterday was greatly appreciated. And a local point of view is always helpful and interesting, even if no translator is needed!

604 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:47:59pm

re: #596 SanFranciscoZionist

Diversity ahoy!

605 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:48:04pm

re: #601 McSpiff

Not trying to step on any toes, its just that anytime you see the words "religion", "school", "Toronto" it gets way more complicated than most people would assume.

Oh, no, I understand. I was just saying, that was an awesome epic post that dealt with a lot of misconceptions concerning the situation.

606 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:48:31pm

re: #599 ProLifeLiberal

I realized the name attached might pull something up on Google:

Ockert Van Schalkwyk

Unfortunately, there are alot of them running around.

No way.

It's like "John Smith" or "Ali Mohommed"?

607 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:48:38pm

re: #574 ggt

And living in poverty and dog tired all the time.

Much easier to control a poor and tired population. You can manipulation them with the promise of a "day off" or free bread.

You make it sound like a grand conspiracy. It is just a simple individual feel good power thing for men worried about how big their dick is.

608 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:48:52pm

re: #595 Killgore Trout

Dark, however, is in favor of not allowing in any Arab immigrants.

That's an untenable, and unconstitutional, position.

609 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:14pm

re: #594 thedopefishlives

The hammer, she has been thrown down.

Well, the issue of Catholic education, both in the US and in Canada, was for a long time tied to certain group's fear of Catholic "popery". In Canada, this was also linked to the status of Quebec and French culture (which is/was traditionally Catholic (I used both words so people could pick the one they want)).

Full Disclosure: I attended a Catholic high school, one run by the Jesuits.

610 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:30pm

re: #564 Dark_Falcon

You're reading things into my words that are not there.

OTC, I'm reading exactly what you say. I'm not the only one, either.

I want the Arab nations to produce more than just oil and I'm fine with the US investing in those nations and providing development aid. I want to help them, I'm not some South African asshole who wants to keep them in perpetual poverty. However, while I want to help the people there, I'm afraid I must say that I do not fully trust them. Back when Sicilians were immigrating to Chicago in large numbers, there were no large demonstrations in Sicily calling for attacks on America. The hate-America virus is strong in the Middle East, and that drives my concern more than anything.

Concern trolling; ridiculous comment.

You've already said several times you want NO "Arabs" here, and you think Congress should reverse the Immigration Act of 1965, which overturned immigration quotas based on country of origin and other race-based criteria.

Not even "Arabs" who are Christians, displaced from wars we have waged on Iraq, are allowed here, I guess. /

BTW, you can leave the "South Africa" canard out of it -- you're not a minority white insisting white rule in an African country, you're a majoritarian bigot insisting on bigots-rule.

I'm talking specifically about Americans espousing anti-immigrant sentiment which dates back to the founding of the country. That includes you, so no excuses.

611 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:49:50pm

re: #607 Naso Tang

You make it sound like a grand conspiracy. It is just a simple individual feel good power thing for men worried about how big their dick is.

And that seems to be a global phenom, not necessarily a conspiracy, per se.

612 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:50:09pm

re: #606 ggt

Evidently, yes. There were 20+ on Facebook alone.

613 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:50:53pm

re: #473 ProLifeLiberal

I don't think the increasing Muslim Population in the US will cause any massive adjustments.

I'm still relatively new (>6 months), but our holidays don't seem to be all day affairs.

When I was teaching in Alameda, another Jewish teacher tried to get the school to keep the library open during lunchtime in Ramadan, so the kids who were fasting didn't have to sit in the cafeteria while everyone else was eating.

I supported it, but they said no. I thought it was a very low-key accommodation, and it was the staff that brought it up.

614 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:51:21pm

re: #610 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OTC, I'm reading exactly what you say. I'm not the only one, either.

Concern trolling; ridiculous comment.

You've already said several times you want NO "Arabs" here, and you think Congress should reverse the Immigration Act of 1965, which overturned immigration quotas based on country of origin and other race-based criteria.

Not even "Arabs" who are Christians, displaced from wars we have waged on Iraq, are allowed here, I guess. /

BTW, you can leave the "South Africa" canard out of it -- you're not a minority white insisting white rule in an African country, you're a majoritarian bigot insisting on bigots-rule.

I'm talking specifically about Americans espousing anti-immigrant sentiment which dates back to the founding of the country. That includes you, so no excuses.

I thought the past immigration policy chose people more by what they could contribute (education level etc). and it was changed to allow families to enter as a whole.--no?

615 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:51:28pm

re: #595 Killgore Trout

There are plenty of reasons to take issue with "multiculturalism", depending on how you define it.


One issue might become language. Should every language in North America have the same legal protections and requirements (restrictions on English usage) that French has in Quebec?

616 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:51:39pm

re: #609 Dark_Falcon

Well, the issue of Catholic education, both in the US and in Canada, was for a long time tied to certain group's fear of Catholic "popery". In Canada, this was also linked to the status of Quebec and French culture (which is/was traditionally Catholic (I used both words so people could pick the one they want)).

Full Disclosure: I attended a Catholic high school, one run by the Jesuits.

Absolutely. I'm not as familiar with the American system, but I know at one point even recently there were two Catholic girls schools in this province, one privately owned by the Church, the other privately owned by the Church but leased and run by the public school board. Figure that one out. It gets... weird. Lots of grand father clauses, etc.

617 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:53:22pm

re: #613 SanFranciscoZionist

I like what you did.

I am disappoint in the school board.

618 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:53:38pm

re: #595 Killgore Trout

I'm just making a quick scroll of the comments but I'll jump in and defend Dark Falcon. There are plenty of reasons to take issue with "multiculturalism", depending on how you define it. There are extreme leftists who believe all cultures and societies are equally awesome and groovy no matter how brutal, archaic and backwards they may be. It's simply not true. These are usually the same folks that want to erase all national borders created by European colonialism and then it'll be all peace and unicorns. Code Pink and ANSWER come to mind off the top of my head. Lyndon Larouche too.

But that sort of multiculturalism hasn't been tried so it would be hard to call it a failure. To me multiculturalism is about trying to to allow multiple cultures coexist peacefully in a pluralistic society. And there are plenty of good examples of that.

619 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:54:32pm

re: #602 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously taqiyya. Gemeinhardt.
/

620 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:54:35pm

re: #610 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OTC, I'm reading exactly what you say. I'm not the only one, either.

Concern trolling; ridiculous comment.

You've already said several times you want NO "Arabs" here, and you think Congress should reverse the Immigration Act of 1965, which overturned immigration quotas based on country of origin and other race-based criteria.

Not even "Arabs" who are Christians, displaced from wars we have waged on Iraq, are allowed here, I guess. /

BTW, you can leave the "South Africa" canard out of it -- you're not a minority white insisting white rule in an African country, you're a majoritarian bigot insisting on bigots-rule.

I'm talking specifically about Americans espousing anti-immigrant sentiment which dates back to the founding of the country. That includes you, so no excuses.

You use the term "bigot" a lot Crush...... you do realize we are all bigots against something don't you?

"A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs."

621 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:55:10pm

re: #595 Killgore Trout

I'm just making a quick scroll of the comments but I'll jump in and defend Dark Falcon. There are plenty of reasons to take issue with "multiculturalism", depending on how you define it. There are extreme leftists who believe all cultures and societies are equally awesome and groovy no matter how brutal, archaic and backwards they may be. It's simply not true. These are usually the same folks that want to erase all national borders created by European colonialism and then it'll be all peace and unicorns. Code Pink and ANSWER come to mind off the top of my head. Lyndon Larouche too.

Lyndon Larouche is not a leftist, he is a another fascist thug. Both right- and left-libertarians argue for open borders. The Libertarian Party platform itself calls for "unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders", within some general limits [Link: www.lp.org...] . The LP is not exactly leftist lol.

DF has not defined "multiculturalism", in fact no one has. But the only reason the subject came up was because he made an un-prompted proclamation that "multiculturalism", whatever the hell that is, has failed.

Good luck getting that definition, though. No one has been able to on the thread, to date.

622 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:55:21pm

re: #615 jaunte

One issue might become language. Should every language in North America have the same legal protections and requirements (restrictions on English usage) that French has in Quebec?

Technically the Quebec Language laws are unconstitutional in Canada as well. Its just that the Canadian Constitution allows for Federal or Provincial governments to over-rule the constitution. See the not withstanding clause.

Point being: Canada has some extremely weird politics. In some ways America is actually more homogeneous when it comes to this sort of stuff. Its like if you had let Alabama opt of the Civil Rights Act.

623 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:55:34pm

re: #598 SanFranciscoZionist

Christian prayers in school are totally allowed. If it is a Christian school, or if students wish to meet and pray together on their own time at school.

I thought I said that, or implied. The operative word was public schools.

Not to mention the 'secular' school activities for Christian holidays.

Again, out of school time, which is not to forget that for others it is so convenient that the main Christian holiday coincidentally coincides with the pagan ones.

And Muslims have no more to do with it than a dozen or two other groups who got sick of having Protestantism in the public schools.

Yes, that goes back what, 250 years?/

624 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:56:10pm

re: #622 McSpiff

Technically the Quebec Language laws are unconstitutional in Canada as well. Its just that the Canadian Constitution allows for Federal or Provincial governments to over-rule the constitution in certain limited ways. See the not withstanding clause.

Point being: Canada has some extremely weird politics. In some ways America is actually more homogeneous when it comes to this sort of stuff. Its like if you had let Alabama opt of the Civil Rights Act.

PIMF.

625 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:57:42pm

re: #570 Naso Tang

Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen eh? That's been around long long before anyone knew what a muselman was.

It was not ideological in the same sense prior to the, say, nineteenth century. There's a difference between a society with traditional gender roles and a society that rejects other developing trends to enforce 'traditional gender roles'.

626 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 6:58:36pm

re: #618 prononymous

But that sort of multiculturalism hasn't been tried so it would be hard to call it a failure. To me multiculturalism is about trying to to allow multiple cultures coexist peacefully in a pluralistic society. And there are plenty of good examples of that.

It is also equated with . . .oooh, what's the term? . . . .

moral relativity.

boy, haven't seen it in a while.

I don't think there is one definition of "multiculturism". Using it with someone who thinks differently than you do will result in alot of miscommunication.

627 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:03pm

re: #614 ggt

I thought the past immigration policy chose people more by what they could contribute (education level etc). and it was changed to allow families to enter as a whole.--no?

Yes and no - those definitions were framed based primarily on country of origin, ethnicity, ancestry and the like. They were solidified in 1924. Check out the links in this post [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

628 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:06pm

re: #621 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lyndon Larouche is not a leftist, he is a another fascist thug. Both right- and left-libertarians argue for open borders. The Libertarian Party platform itself calls for "unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders", within some general limits [Link: www.lp.org...] . The LP is not exactly leftist lol.

DF has not defined "multiculturalism", in fact no one has. But the only reason the subject came up was because he made an un-prompted proclamation that "multiculturalism", whatever the hell that is, has failed.

Good luck getting that definition, though. No one has been able to on the thread, to date.

no one has defined fascism either. . . .well, except George Orwell.

629 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:00:13pm

re: #588 McSpiff

Oh hey, actual Canadian here. Mind if I jump in?

Key piece of information about this story. It takes place in Toronto.

This is important for two reasons. One, Toronto has an absolutely massive immigrant population, making it entirely possible that this school is majority muslim. And two, Toronto is home to the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

From the wiki link:

Yup, Toronto has a massive, publicly funded religious school system. If you're Catholic. So the level of "religious consideration" given to Muslim students is NOTHING compared to an entire, separate school system. That Muslim taxes are funding. Along with Atheists, Jews, etc. The budget is something like a billion dollars (seriously, its listed on wikipedia).

But of course a government funded school board has to take any student who applies right?

Well thats too bad.

So when you see this kind of concession made to other religious groups, as tends to happen every few years, its usually to avoid a full blown shit storm in Toronto over the Catholic Schools. Personally I think its pretty gross, but they also tend to outperform their secular counterparts. Its damn tricky, and things like what the article outlined are part of a much larger, older debate in Canada over the nature of religious education in Canada

//Canada rant off.

Thank you for all that information--I've been trying to sort this story out for a while. Let me see if I understand--there's a state run, taxpayer funded Catholic school district, and another one that's secular?

630 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:01:26pm

re: #597 HoosierHoops

I love Alameda...I lived on Bay Farm for about 6 months...Did I say I love Alameda? I like Park Street also

Alameda is a nice town. The old houses are stunning.

631 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:01:38pm

Seriously, Google... wtf?

I mean, Whisky Tango Foxtrot, over.

[Link: www.google.com...]

This seems like something they'd post as an April Fool's day gag.

The purpose of Google Profiles is to enable you to manage your online identity. Today, nearly all Google Profiles are public. We believe that using Google Profiles to help people find and connect with you online is how the product is best used. Private profiles don’t allow this, so we have decided to require all profiles to be public.

Keep in mind that your full name is the only required information that will be displayed on your profile; you’ll be able to edit or remove any other information that you don’t want to share.

If you currently have a private profile but you do not wish to make your profile public, you can delete your profile. Or, you can simply do nothing. All private profiles will be deleted after July 31, 2011.

Fuck you, Google. You're going to end up forcing me to admit that Richard Stallman was right about everything.

632 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:01:59pm

re: #599 ProLifeLiberal

I realized the name attached might pull something up on Google:

Ockert Van Schalkwyk

Unfortunately, there are alot of them running around.

There are a lot of people named Ockert Van Schalkwyck?

Live and learn.

633 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:02:17pm

re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist

Alameda is a nice town. The old houses are stunning.

The Crew from the Enterprise went back in time to Alameda to steal a couple of humpback whales.

634 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:02:33pm

re: #631 negativ

Seriously, Google... wtf?

I mean, Whisky Tango Foxtrot, over.

[Link: www.google.com...]

This seems like something they'd post as an April Fool's day gag.

Fuck you, Google. You're going to end up forcing me to admit that Richard Stallman was right about everything.

Man... thank god for Yahoo.

635 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:02:52pm

re: #602 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously taqiyya.
/

We also had an observant Afghani kid on the volleyball team. The other teams kept hoping the scarf and long sleeves would slow her down. Didn't happen.

636 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:03:02pm

re: #626 ggt

It is also equated with . . .oooh, what's the term? . . .

moral relativity.

boy, haven't seen it in a while.

I don't think there is one definition of "multiculturism". Using it with someone who thinks differently than you do will result in alot of miscommunication.

Of course people will always have their own definitions for various words. But I don't really see what's wrong with using these:

Dictionary.com
mul·ti·cul·tur·al·ism
[muhl-tee-kuhl-cher-uh-liz-uhm, muhl-tahy-]
–noun
1.
the state or condition of being multicultural.
2.
the preservation of different cultures or cultural identities within a unified society, as a state or nation.

Wikipedia
Multiculturalism is the appreciation, acceptance or promotion of multiple cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities or nations.

That's about in line with how I normally use it and how I've always heard it used.

I need to eat, bbl.

637 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:03:36pm

re: #601 McSpiff

Not trying to step on any toes, its just that anytime you see the words "religion", "school", "Toronto" it gets way more complicated than most people would assume.

No, seriously, that's enormously helpful to know.

638 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:04:10pm

re: #613 SanFranciscoZionist

When I was teaching in Alameda, another Jewish teacher tried to get the school to keep the library open during lunchtime in Ramadan, so the kids who were fasting didn't have to sit in the cafeteria while everyone else was eating.

I supported it, but they said no. I thought it was a very low-key accommodation, and it was the staff that brought it up.

I think I said this before, If one can't "assimilate" without special concessions being granted, go to a religious school.

Do you seriously think one concession doesn't lead to asking for another one? This is not a matter of Sharia law crap, it is just a matter of doing what everyone else has done until you chose to live in this society.

Disclaimer: I am prone to Hitchens or Dawkings rants when this stuff comes up, downdings be damned.

639 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:07pm

re: #636 prononymous

Of course people will always have their own definitions for various words. But I don't really see what's wrong with using these:

Dictionary.com
mul·ti·cul·tur·al&midd ot;ism
[muhl-tee-kuhl-cher-uh-liz-uhm, muhl-tahy-]
–noun
1.
the state or condition of being multicultural.
2.
the preservation of different cultures or cultural identities within a unified society, as a state or nation.

Wikipedia
Multiculturalism is the appreciation, acceptance or promotion of multiple cultures, applied to the demographic make-up of a specific place, usually at the organizational level, e.g. schools, businesses, neighborhoods, cities or nations.

That's about in line with how I normally use it and how I've always heard it used.

I need to eat, bbl.

I think a lawyer could chew that apart in about 3 seconds.

I wonder if there is a legal definition.

I mean, preserving cultural identity at the organization level -- could erode the establishment clause, if argued so.

640 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:17pm

re: #625 SanFranciscoZionist

It was not ideological in the same sense prior to the, say, nineteenth century. There's a difference between a society with traditional gender roles and a society that rejects other developing trends to enforce 'traditional gender roles'.

Are you suggesting that there was not a religious basis for those "gender roles" back then?

641 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:25pm

re: #636 prononymous

This article from Stanford has a pretty good definition:

Multiculturalism is a body of thought in political philosophy about the proper way to respond to cultural and religious diversity. Mere toleration of group differences is said to fall short of treating members of minority groups as equal citizens; recognition and positive accommodation of group differences are required through “group-differentiated rights,” a term coined by Will Kymlicka (1995). Some group-differentiated rights are held by individual members of minority groups, as in the case of individuals who are granted exemptions from generally applicable laws in virtue of their religious beliefs or individuals who seek language accommodations in schools or in voting.
[Link: plato.stanford.edu...]
642 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:25pm

re: #615 jaunte

One issue might become language. Should every language in North America have the same legal protections and requirements (restrictions on English usage) that French has in Quebec?

No proponent of multiculturalism that I'm aware of has ever suggested that should be the case.

Although I WOULD be in favor of every sign, government document, etc. being available in a local Native American language. For one thing, it would provide income for the people who still know them.

643 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:05:57pm

re: #632 SanFranciscoZionist

There are a lot of people named Ockert Van Schalkwyck?

Live and learn.

And that's just the Philadelphia Vav Schalwycks.

644 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:06:27pm

re: #628 ggt

no one has defined fascism either. . . .well, except George Orwell.

Lol true.

Well, DF has been asked for a definition, a couple times now. No dice. Would not even have been an issue had he not brought it up.

645 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:06:40pm

re: #623 Naso Tang

I thought I said that, or implied. The operative word was public schools.

Again, out of school time, which is not to forget that for others it is so convenient that the main Christian holiday coincidentally coincides with the pagan ones.

Yes, that goes back what, 250 years?/

Christmas assemblies aren't 'out of school time', though, they're in school.

646 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:06:51pm

re: #638 Naso Tang

I think I said this before, If one can't "assimilate" without special concessions being granted, go to a religious school.

Do you seriously think one concession doesn't lead to asking for another one? This is not a matter of Sharia law crap, it is just a matter of doing what everyone else has done until you chose to live in this society.

Disclaimer: I am prone to Hitchens or Dawkings rants when this stuff comes up, downdings be damned.

I agree, the same argument has been made about teaching Spanish in Public Schools (ESL).

I don't know what the answer is. I do know that in schools that are overwhelmingly one ethincity or another, there should probably be concessions made IF THEY help the children and are considered temporary --for the current generation.

647 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:07:35pm

re: #633 ggt

The Crew from the Enterprise went back in time to Alameda to steal a couple of humpback whales.

Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home. One of the better Star Trek movies, although not nearly as good as II or VI. It lacked a villain like those played by Ricardo Montalban or Christopher Plumer.

648 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:07:42pm

re: #629 SanFranciscoZionist

Thank you for all that information--I've been trying to sort this story out for a while. Let me see if I understand--there's a state run, taxpayer funded Catholic school district, and another one that's secular?

Yes. Two totally separate school boards covering the same geographic area. One a traditional, secular school district (although I believe it may be the descendent of the old Protestant system, its completely secular now) and the Catholic school system. Both receive public funding. I'm not a resident of Toronto, but I've been told over the years that the Catholic system is superior.

From another wikipedia article

Although all four parties released a variety of detailed platform proposals, the campaign was dominated almost entirely by John Tory's promise to extend public funding to Ontario’s faith-based schools.[4]

In Ontario at present, the Catholic school system is fully funded in the same manner as public schools. However, other religious schools, such as Jewish, Muslim or Evangelical Christian schools, are not funded by the province. This discrepancy has been cited as discriminatory by both the Supreme Court of Canada and the United Nations Human Rights Committee, although to date the province has taken no action to change its existing school funding policies, on the grounds that Catholic school funding in the province is mandated by the Constitution of Canada.

649 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:08:09pm

re: #638 Naso Tang

Disclaimer: I am prone to Hitchens or Dawkings rants when this stuff comes up, downdings be damned.


Yes, I was tempted to bring up Dawkins earlier. He was bemoaning the mumber of school children refusing to accept evolutionary science in Britain. Muslim immigration has a substantial impact on smaller countries in Europe. Not all of it beneficial.

650 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:08:26pm

re: #640 Naso Tang

Are you suggesting that there was not a religious basis for those "gender roles" back then?

There was a practical reason for gender roles before contraception, electric washing machines, vacuums and dishwashing machines.

It made more sense for the man to plow the fields and the woman to stay with the kids and do the household tasks.

651 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:11:25pm

re: #641 jaunte

This article from Stanford has a pretty good definition:

Great link!

This one strikes a chord with me.

"3.5 Problem of vulnerable “internal minorities”

A final objection (and one that has received the most attention in recent scholarly debates about multiculturalism) argues that extending protections to minority groups may come at the price of reinforcing oppression of vulnerable members of those groups—what some have called the problem of “internal minorities” or “minorities within minorities” (Green 1994, Eisenberg and Spinner-Halev 2005). Multicultural theorists have focused on inequalities between groups in arguing for special protections for minority groups, but group-based protections can exacerbate inequalities within minority groups. This is because some ways of protecting minority groups from oppression by the majority may make it more likely that more powerful members of those groups are able to undermine the basic liberties and opportunities of vulnerable members. Vulnerable subgroups within minority groups include religious dissenters, sexual minorities, women, and children. A group's leaders may exaggerate the degree of consensus and solidarity within their group to present a united front to the wider society and strengthen their case for accommodation."

652 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:11:26pm

re: #646 ggt

I agree, the same argument has been made about teaching Spanish in Public Schools (ESL).

I don't know what the answer is. I do know that in schools that are overwhelmingly one ethincity or another, there should probably be concessions made IF THEY help the children and are considered temporary --for the current generation.

No, they help only to reinforce the divide, and that goes for the language too. I learned English at the age of 6. Total immersion and I think it took a few months at most. I have zero patience with language lazy peoples.

653 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:11:46pm

re: #639 ggt

I think a lawyer could chew that apart in about 3 seconds.

I wonder if there is a legal definition.

I mean, preserving cultural identity at the organization level -- could erode the establishment clause, if argued so.

DF claimed he's "looked at the policy and found it faulty."

Best of luck to anyone trying to figure out what "policy" he's talking about, be it here, Europe, or Timbuktu. I tried, but was met with the predictable crickets.

654 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:12:16pm

re: #650 ggt

There was a practical reason for gender roles before contraception, electric washing machines, vacuums and dishwashing machines.

It made more sense for the man to plow the fields and the woman to stay with the kids and do the household tasks.

Excuses excuses.

655 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:12:45pm

re: #650 ggt

There was a practical reason for gender roles before contraception, electric washing machines, vacuums and dishwashing machines.

It made more sense for the man to plow the fields and the woman to stay with the kids and do the household tasks.

There was a farmer in Carter Co. Ky, named Bill Carter. At least one season he pushed a plow, and his wife pulled it. We take a lot for granted.

656 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:13:16pm

re: #650 ggt

There was a practical reason for gender roles before contraception, electric washing machines, vacuums and dishwashing machines.

It made more sense for the man to plow the fields and the woman to stay with the kids and do the household tasks.

But seriously, the issue concerns more than a sometimes logical division of labor.

657 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:14:03pm

re: #655 Decatur Deb

There was a farmer in Carter Co. Ky, named Bill Carter. At least one season he pushed a plow, and his wife pulled it. We take a lot for granted.

Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

658 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:14:50pm

re: #649 Killgore Trout

Yes, I was tempted to bring up Dawkins earlier. He was bemoaning the mumber of school children refusing to accept evolutionary science in Britain. Muslim immigration has a substantial impact on smaller countries in Europe. Not all of it beneficial.

Thank you for your support, Killgore.

659 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:15:28pm

re: #638 Naso Tang

I think I said this before, If one can't "assimilate" without special concessions being granted, go to a religious school.

Do you seriously think one concession doesn't lead to asking for another one? This is not a matter of Sharia law crap, it is just a matter of doing what everyone else has done until you chose to live in this society.

Disclaimer: I am prone to Hitchens or Dawkings rants when this stuff comes up, downdings be damned.

I judge 'concessions' based on how disruptive they are to the community. The girls wearing scarves was no problem to anyone. Big shrug.

As for 'one concession leading to asking for another one', it didn't, not at all. The Afghani parents had exactly one need from the school, which was that their daughters be allowed to wear scarves and long sleeves and sweatpants under their gym clothes.

We'd been doing this for years. It worked fine. No one's toes or rights were being stepped on.

660 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:17:28pm

Ahmed Shihab-Eldin tweets:

Today an Ethiopian cab driver said to me, "Splitting, into north and south, or east and west, it doesn't work. Unity. That is whats needed.
661 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:17:52pm

re: #652 Naso Tang

No, they help only to reinforce the divide, and that goes for the language too. I learned English at the age of 6. Total immersion and I think it took a few months at most. I have zero patience with language lazy peoples.

Where I live, the public schools have to deal with immigrant children who may have had a teacher come to their village 2 days a week, some times.

Introducing them to the school system and the country in their own language is essential if they are to catch-up in simple math and science. Eventually they learn what they need to. There are still those who are born here, live in the neighborhood, watch Mexican TV and don't even HEAR English until they come to kindergarten. No joke.

Part of the reason the anti-immigration crowd get's all up in arms about crime is that without ESL, these kids don't have much chance to make it any other way. It's us, the taxpayers who have to come-up with the resources to educate these kids. Most schools don't have the resources to teach it for more than one or two grade levels.

I don't like it, but I don't want lose a generation of kids who could contribute positively to our society.

662 Petero1818  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:18:03pm

re: #588 McSpiff

Totally disagree. This has nothing to do with avoiding a shit storm over the Catholic school board. The 2 issues are totally separate. This was a one off from a school and not a decision made by a school board. And while I find it ridiculous, our last provincial election showed that there is no pending shit storm regarding the Catholic school board.
The fact is that this is a concession to one group and one group only. Orthodox Jews, have never made such a request. They set up their own parochial schools and fund them through their own communities.
This was a local issue and a local principal trying to deal with a problem of absenteeism amongst his school population on Fridays.

663 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:19:16pm

re: #656 Naso Tang

But seriously, the issue concerns more than a sometimes logical division of labor.

True, tradition turned into law. . . .

664 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:19:25pm

re: #660 jaunte

Ahmed Shihab-Eldin tweets:

No, what's needed is fines for spitting.

/Singapore: It's A Fine™ City.

665 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:28pm

re: #659 SanFranciscoZionist

What can I say?

I understand the sentiment and desire to accommodate, particularly for children who did not make up these stupid rules and uniforms that they have to wear mainly to show how they are not like everyone else (or that they ARE like everyone else back in the neighborhood) ; but trust me, there are plenty of more requests in the wings. Wait for it.

666 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:34pm

re: #664 laZardo

No, what's needed is fines for spitting.

/Singapore: It's A Fine™ City.

or splitting . . .

:)

667 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:20:50pm

re: #664 laZardo

No, what's needed is fines for spitting.

Baseball players ain't going to like that much.

668 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:21:48pm

re: #665 Naso Tang

What can I say?

I understand the sentiment and desire to accommodate, particularly for children who did not make up these stupid rules and uniforms that they have to wear mainly to show how they are not like everyone else (or that they ARE like everyone else back in the neighborhood) ; but trust me, there are plenty of more requests in the wings. Wait for it.

Slippery slope.

669 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:22:00pm

re: #661 ggt

Language doesn't have to be taught as a class to be learned. The solution is trivially simple.

670 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:22:36pm

Okay, it's getting late and I have stuff to do in preparation for Monday, so I'm just coming back for this one last comment.

re: #535 Petero1818

I personally have no problem with Muslim immigration. I do however believe that we, just as Europe has now, will face tensions in society from muslim immigrants whose values may be inconsistent with our own as embodied in our Charter, and our laws. Their numbers, and the birth rates as well as it being a proselytizing religion, mean that the dangers are far different than those that were talked about when Jews were immigrating.

You say you have no problem with Muslim immigration, but you sound awfully concerned about its "dangers".

Personally, I'm rather more worried about the proselytizing Christians vying to be the GOP presidential candidate at the moment as they're currently the ones talking about Biblical law in relation to the Constitution & governing the country. Their views are inconsistent with said Constitution, and I don't appreciate their attempts at historical revisionism. Still, like them or not, they are part of "US". (Pun intended.)

I don't keep tabs on everything that Muslims do in Canada & Europe, so I can't speak to what happens in soup kitchens in France. What I can say is that I don't want to live under a theocracy—not a Muslim one, or a Christian one, or a Jewish one, or a Hindu one, etc.

If I wanted to live under Sharia, it would be easy enough for me to emigrate to somewhere that I could. I have neither the time nor the energy to go to the trouble of out-breeding all the non-Muslims, supplanting the Constitution with the Qur'an, and "dhimmifying" all of you in pursuit of the New Global Caliphate™. //

As an American Muslim I expect fair treatment under under our laws, same as everyone else. That is all. Our government has a legislative branch to handle the process making of new laws, a judicial one to serve as a check in explaining & applying those laws, and an executive branch to steer the ship. The system is far from perfect, but it's the best out there (IMO) and I'll trust it (within reason) to keep the ship afloat and on course. I unhesitatingly say let the new immigrants keep coming from wherever—we'll work it out.

671 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:22:41pm

re: #664 laZardo

No, what's needed is fines for spitting.

Image: skoal_man.jpg

Auto-punishment.

672 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:23:46pm

re: #640 Naso Tang

Are you suggesting that there was not a religious basis for those "gender roles" back then?

No. But there was also more of a practical reason once upon a time.

673 Petero1818  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:11pm

re: #648 McSpiff

Yes. Two totally separate school boards covering the same geographic area. One a traditional, secular school district (although I believe it may be the descendent of the old Protestant system, its completely secular now) and the Catholic school system. Both receive public funding. I'm not a resident of Toronto, but I've been told over the years that the Catholic system is superior.

From another wikipedia article

Except Tory got crushed, because the Catholic school board issue was not resonating with the people in Ontario. He spent his entire budget on it, and most people didn't give a crap because it is an anachronistic part of our system that while unfair, quite frankly is inoffensive to most. When you pay your taxes in Ontario you check off taxes to go to public school board or catholic school board.

674 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:18pm

And I am NOT coming back again tonight no matter what, so please stop replying to me, people! Sheesh... ///

675 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:26pm

re: #659 SanFranciscoZionist

I judge 'concessions' based on how disruptive they are to the community. The girls wearing scarves was no problem to anyone. Big shrug.

As for 'one concession leading to asking for another one', it didn't, not at all. The Afghani parents had exactly one need from the school, which was that their daughters be allowed to wear scarves and long sleeves and sweatpants under their gym clothes.

We'd been doing this for years. It worked fine. No one's toes or rights were being stepped on.

A concession like that I have no problem with. But some practices identified with Islam, such as bad treatment of women, I have a major problem with. I use the word "identified" because I do think them integral to Islam, and so I think a compromise is possible.

676 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:27pm

re: #670 CuriousLurker

Personally, I'm rather more worried about the proselytizing Christians vying to be the GOP presidential candidate at the moment as they're currently the ones talking about Biblical law in relation to the Constitution & governing the country. Their views are inconsistent with said Constitution, and I don't appreciate their attempts at historical revisionism. Still, like them or not, they are part of "US".

That's worth repeating often.

677 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:24:56pm

re: #647 Dark_Falcon

Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home. One of the better Star Trek movies, although not nearly as good as II or VI. It lacked a villain like those played by Ricardo Montalban or Christopher Plumer.


Ricardo Montalban adds a level of gravitas to anything he does.... anything...

678 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:25:08pm

re: #648 McSpiff

Actually, in terms of multiculturalism and schooling some here might find this interesting...

I'm in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada.

For Public Schooling we have:

Under the City wide Halifax Regional Schoolboard:

- Regular, English Speaking k-12. For many years, French is a required course. Several hours a week French instruction.

- French Immersion. Available to any student regardless of background. Majority of instruction is in French, with English as a required course. Taught in the same buildings as option 1, but largely segregated from them.

Under the province wide Conseil scolaire acadien provincial (Francophone Schoolboard)

- Well, the same thing as immersion really but based on how francophone the parents are.

Again, its weird.

679 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:25:18pm

re: #671 jaunte

Image: skoal_man.jpg

Auto-punishment.

And I thought Ebert had it bad.

680 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:25:46pm

re: #665 Naso Tang

What can I say?

I understand the sentiment and desire to accommodate, particularly for children who did not make up these stupid rules and uniforms that they have to wear mainly to show how they are not like everyone else (or that they ARE like everyone else back in the neighborhood) ; but trust me, there are plenty of more requests in the wings. Wait for it.

My experience says otherwise, but sure, let's wait.

681 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:27:13pm

re: #677 jamesfirecat

Ricardo Montalban adds a level of gravitas to anything he does... anything...

added

He died, IIRC last year.

682 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:27:29pm

I think I have to go read about Multiverses in the Scientific American that just came. (Just think of all the gods that must be out there :)

I didn't get any downdings this time. Don't know if it's me or the crowd.

Goodnight.

683 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:39pm

re: #669 Naso Tang

Language doesn't have to be taught as a class to be learned. The solution is trivially simple.

Where and when to put the .'s and the ,'s does have to be taught in class.

684 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:49pm

re: #675 Dark_Falcon

A concession like that I have no problem with. But some practices identified with Islam, such as bad treatment of women, I have a major problem with. I use the word "identified" because I do not think them integral to Islam, and so I think a compromise is possible.

PIMF

685 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:28:59pm

re: #665 Naso Tang

What can I say?

I understand the sentiment and desire to accommodate, particularly for children who did not make up these stupid rules and uniforms that they have to wear mainly to show how they are not like everyone else (or that they ARE like everyone else back in the neighborhood) ; but trust me, there are plenty of more requests in the wings. Wait for it.

I like the fact that my daughter wears a uniform to school..... otherwise it would be a fashion show or gang colors.

686 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:29:30pm

re: #683 ggt

Where and when to put the .'s and the ,'s does have to be taught in class.

Caught me. Speak first write second.

687 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:29:55pm

re: #685 Mr Pancakes

I like the fact that my daughter wears a uniform to school... otherwise it would be a fashion show or gang colors.

Geez the dress code in the public high school around here is mind boggling to me. What colors, logos, little pictures that can't be worn is amazing to me.

Uniforms would be easier.

688 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:31:54pm

re: #674 CuriousLurker

And I am NOT coming back again tonight no matter what, so please stop replying to me, people! Sheesh... ///

Hello.

689 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:31:58pm

One of he kids in the neighborhood got sent home because of some t-shirt he was wearing--wrong color or something.

His Dad told them it was America and his kid could wear any shirt he wanted--and promptly enrolled him in the high school in the neighborhood where his ex-wife lived (boys mother). I wondered if he would have been sent home if he had been white.

Difference in demographics made all the difference.

690 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:32:30pm

re: #662 Petero1818

Totally disagree. This has nothing to do with avoiding a shit storm over the Catholic school board. The 2 issues are totally separate. This was a one off from a school and not a decision made by a school board. And while I find it ridiculous, our last provincial election showed that there is no pending shit storm regarding the Catholic school board.
The fact is that this is a concession to one group and one group only. Orthodox Jews, have never made such a request. They set up their own parochial schools and fund them through their own communities.
This was a local issue and a local principal trying to deal with a problem of absenteeism amongst his school population on Fridays.

Sure, it started out as a local issue in one school. Then the school board got involved. Ignore the elephant in the room if you want, but its awfully hard to bemoan special requests by Muslims when the Catholics get an entire schoolboard. Hell, they could pay the Iman to show up and it still wouldn't rival the Catholic system.

re: #673 Petero1818

Except Tory got crushed, because the Catholic school board issue was not resonating with the people in Ontario. He spent his entire budget on it, and most people didn't give a crap because it is an anachronistic part of our system that while unfair, quite frankly is inoffensive to most. When you pay your taxes in Ontario you check off taxes to go to public school board or catholic school board.

I don't think you realize how nuts this sounds to someone from outside of Ontario. Right, it didn't decide the election. It was still an issue. Its not normal to have your tax dollars go to a church.

691 Petero1818  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:33:34pm

re: #670 CuriousLurker

Okay, it's getting late and I have stuff to do in preparation for Monday, so I'm just coming back for this one last comment.

You say you have no problem with Muslim immigration, but you sound awfully concerned about its "dangers".

Personally, I'm rather more worried about the proselytizing Christians vying to be the GOP presidential candidate at the moment as they're currently the ones talking about Biblical law in relation to the Constitution & governing the country. Their views are inconsistent with said Constitution, and I don't appreciate their attempts at historical revisionism. Still, like them or not, they are part of "US". (Pun intended.)

I don't keep tabs on everything that Muslims do in Canada & Europe, so I can't speak to what happens in soup kitchens in France. What I can say is that I don't want to live under a theocracy—not a Muslim one, or a Christian one, or a Jewish one, or a Hindu one, etc.

If I wanted to live under Sharia, it would be easy enough for me to emigrate to somewhere that I could. I have neither the time nor the energy to go to the trouble of out-breeding all the non-Muslims, supplanting the Constitution with the Qur'an, and "dhimmifying" all of you in pursuit of the New Global Caliphate™. //

As an American Muslim I expect fair treatment under under our laws, same as everyone else. That is all. Our government has a legislative branch to handle the process making of new laws, a judicial one to serve as a check in explaining & applying those laws, and an executive branch to steer the ship. The system is far from perfect, but it's the best out there (IMO) and I'll trust it (within reason) to keep the ship afloat and on course. I unhesitatingly say let the new immigrants keep coming from wherever—we'll work it out.

I take no issue with anything you say. I stand by what I said. There are risks in accepting immigrants into society. Particularly when many of them have deeply held values that are inconsistent with secular western values. That is clearly the case with some muslim immigrants. I also strongly believe you are correct in the fear you have of the American Evangelical movement and I share those fears. I view these "dangers" in the same way. The only difference is one is here, and the others are immigrating now. That is not to say you keep them out, but I believe you cannot give in to accommodation within the secular public system, for anyone.

692 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:33:38pm

re: #689 ggt

One of he kids in the neighborhood got sent home because of some t-shirt he was wearing--wrong color or something.

His Dad told them it was America and his kid could wear any shirt he wanted--and promptly enrolled him in the high school in the neighborhood where his ex-wife lived (boys mother). I wondered if he would have been sent home if he had been white.

Difference in demographics made all the difference.

Honestly, here in Chicagoland it often is about what symbols gangs use. Schools often need to go into detail to keep gang pressures out. It's sick but its really not the fault of the schools.

693 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:33:46pm

re: #690 McSpiff

Sure, it started out as a local issue in one school. Then the school board got involved. Ignore the elephant in the room if you want, but its awfully hard to bemoan special requests by Muslims when the Catholics get an entire schoolboard. Hell, they could pay the Iman to show up and it still wouldn't rival the Catholic system.

re: #673 Petero1818

I don't think you realize how nuts this sounds to someone from outside of Ontario. Right, it didn't decide the election. It was still an issue. Its not normal to have your tax dollars go to a church.

NOt in the US, anyway. . . .

694 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:34:14pm

Due to 80% laziness and 20% unbridled terror, I'm not seeking this information out for myself, and am instead asking ye damned.

Has something resembling an agreement on the "debt ceiling" been reached yet, or are we waiting for Wall Street to shit itself inside-out tomorrow morning?

695 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:34:16pm

re: #687 ggt

Geez the dress code in the public high school around here is mind boggling to me. What colors, logos, little pictures that can't be worn is amazing to me.

Uniforms would be easier.


The (sort of reasonable) fear of gangs here in AL has required that our school cheerleaders (sort of unreasonably) not wear the school colors during classtime.

696 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:34:56pm

re: #695 Decatur Deb

The (sort of reasonable) fear of gangs here in AL has required that our school cheerleaders (sort of unreasonably) not wear the school colors during classtime.

LOL

697 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:36:45pm

re: #692 Dark_Falcon

At that point, just have a uniform.

Doesn't have to be fancy, just makes sure no gang symbols pop up.

698 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:36:58pm

re: #659 SanFranciscoZionist

I judge 'concessions' based on how disruptive they are to the community. The girls wearing scarves was no problem to anyone. Big shrug.

As for 'one concession leading to asking for another one', it didn't, not at all. The Afghani parents had exactly one need from the school, which was that their daughters be allowed to wear scarves and long sleeves and sweatpants under their gym clothes.

We'd been doing this for years. It worked fine. No one's toes or rights were being stepped on.

When I was growing up, it was the Pentacostal girls, the ones belonging to the branch that doesn't allow women to wear pants - those girls were allowed to wear skirts over their gym clothes. What you describe sounds exactly the same thing.

699 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:37:02pm

just put peanut butter on the puppy's nose.

teehee

700 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:37:50pm

re: #697 ProLifeLiberal

At that point, just have a uniform.

Doesn't have to be fancy, just makes sure no gang symbols pop up.

Agreed.

701 Petero1818  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:38:06pm

re: #690 McSpiff

Sure, it started out as a local issue in one school. Then the school board got involved. Ignore the elephant in the room if you want, but its awfully hard to bemoan special requests by Muslims when the Catholics get an entire schoolboard. Hell, they could pay the Iman to show up and it still wouldn't rival the Catholic system.

re: #673 Petero1818

I don't think you realize how nuts this sounds to someone from outside of Ontario. Right, it didn't decide the election. It was still an issue. Its not normal to have your tax dollars go to a church.

Oh I realize it, trust me. It is insane. But it is our legacy, and my point was merely that I don't think the decision is made with regard to the Catholic School Board Issue. I think most of Ontario does not care about the issue with respect to the Catholic School Board, and I suspect they do care about Muslims praying at a public school.

702 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:39:03pm

re: #698 reine.de.tout

When I was growing up, it was the Pentacostal girls, the ones belonging to the branch that doesn't allow women to wear pants - those girls were allowed to wear skirts over their gym clothes. What you describe sounds exactly the same thing.

OMG! Wear pants, wear skirts, this color, that color.

AMISH UNIFORMS FOR ALL!

There, it's settled.

703 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:39:36pm

re: #694 negativ

This is the last I've heard:

Today, Speaker John Boehner told the House GOP caucus that he is preparing a short-term bill that would raise the debt ceiling for about six months, despite Obama’s pledge to veto such a measure.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
704 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:40:04pm

re: #694 negativ

Due to 80% laziness and 20% unbridled terror, I'm not seeking this information out for myself, and am instead asking ye damned.

Has something resembling an agreement on the "debt ceiling" been reached yet, or are we waiting for Wall Street to shit itself inside-out tomorrow morning?

Not as of a few minutes ago. Asian markets are down about 1%.

705 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:40:40pm

re: #702 ggt

OMG! Wear pants, wear skirts, this color, that color.

AMISH UNIFORMS FOR ALL!

There, it's settled.

Hell, just get rid of gym class?

706 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:41:31pm

re: #705 reine.de.tout

Hell, just get rid of gym class?

No, that's the only opportunity some kids have to get an "A".

Sad, but true.

707 STCRUZ  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:41:45pm

re: #55 kirkspencer

It's absurd to compare and put into the same grouping an imam who issues a direct death fatwa on people with a monetary reward, and writers like Spencer or Geller, neither of whom have ever called for physical attacks on Muslims or any type of violence.

Where's your logic? What about there being millions of readers of all kinds of Anti-jihad blogs, or millions of readers of Mein Kampf, or the 1.5 billion Muslims who are not terrorists? What's next, censorship?

You may not agree with what Spencer is doing, but he is hardly responsible for the actions of another man.

708 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:41:56pm

re: #705 reine.de.tout

Hell, just get rid of gym class?

Although, I thought it was a waste myself.

709 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:42:06pm

re: #705 reine.de.tout

Considering obesity rates in the US, no.

710 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:42:58pm

re: #709 ProLifeLiberal

Considering obesity rates in the US, no.

You really think gym class has any impact on obesity rates?

I didn't break a sweat in gym class, ever.

711 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:43:35pm

My daughter's new school name is the "Cavilers"..... I get a chuckle every time I hear that.

712 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:44:51pm

re: #702 ggt

OMG! Wear pants, wear skirts, this color, that color.

AMISH UNIFORMS FOR ALL!

There, it's settled.

We were down with that:

Image: LoretoToner61.JPG

713 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:44:54pm

re: #710 ggt

Can't hurt either, though.

714 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:07pm

re: #707 STCRUZ

It's absurd to compare and put into the same grouping an imam who issues a direct death fatwa on people with a monetary reward, and writers like Spencer or Geller, neither of whom have ever called for physical attacks on Muslims or any type of violence.

Where's your logic? What about there being millions of readers of all kinds of Anti-jihad blogs, or millions of readers of Mein Kampf, or the 1.5 billion Muslims who are not terrorists? What's next, censorship?

You may not agree with what Spencer is doing, but he is hardly responsible for the actions of another man.

First comment after being registered for 20 days. I smell socks.

715 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:44pm

re: #712 Decatur Deb

We were down with that:

Image: LoretoToner61.JPG

no, no, no penguins allowed!

716 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:45:50pm

re: #702 ggt


AMISH UNIFORMS FOR ALL!


I have trouble with the mortise and tenon fasteners.

717 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:46:51pm

re: #716 jaunte

I have trouble with the mortise and tenon fasteners.

But one on could expell you, judge you, rank you or beat-u-up because you were wearing the wrong shaped button.

718 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:47:18pm

re: #707 STCRUZ

It's absurd to compare and put into the same grouping an imam who issues a direct death fatwa on people with a monetary reward, and writers like Spencer or Geller, neither of whom have ever called for physical attacks on Muslims or any type of violence.

Where's your logic? What about there being millions of readers of all kinds of Anti-jihad blogs, or millions of readers of Mein Kampf, or the 1.5 billion Muslims who are not terrorists? What's next, censorship?

You may not agree with what Spencer is doing, but he is hardly responsible for the actions of another man.

Robert Spencer doesn't bear direct blame for this, but he did fill the ideological pool in which this turdfish swam.

719 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:47:28pm

re: #713 ProLifeLiberal

Can't hurt either, though.

You've obviously never been in a girls locker room. I think some of the girls were scarred for life.

720 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:47:33pm

re: #710 ggt

You really think gym class has any impact on obesity rates?

I didn't break a sweat in gym class, ever.

I didn't either.
And looking at old photos - people were much slimmer in times when there was NO GYM CLASS in school -

The obesity rate in this country has a lot to do with:
1) People not eating the right foods because they take a vitamin pill everyday and so they think it's OK to have a steady diet of fast-food.
2) People serving themselves HUMONGOUS portions of food at home because that's the portion size they get in a restaurant and they think it's "normal".
3) People eating everything on their plate when what they've been served at a restaurant (or at home) is really enough for 2 or 3 or sometimes 4 meals.

721 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:48:38pm

re: #708 ggt

Although, I thought it was a waste myself.

Plus, those bloomer-style uniforms were terribly ugly and silly-looking.

722 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:49:05pm

re: #720 reine.de.tout

I didn't either.
And looking at old photos - people were much slimmer in times when there was NO GYM CLASS in school -

The obesity rate in this country has a lot to do with:
1) People not eating the right foods because they take a vitamin pill everyday and so they think it's OK to have a steady diet of fast-food.
2) People serving themselves HUMONGOUS portions of food at home because that's the portion size they get in a restaurant and they think it's "normal".
3) People eating everything on their plate when what they've been served at a restaurant (or at home) is really enough for 2 or 3 or sometimes 4 meals.

Ummmm so what's your point?
/

723 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:49:07pm

re: #720 reine.de.tout

I didn't either.
And looking at old photos - people were much slimmer in times when there was NO GYM CLASS in school -

The obesity rate in this country has a lot to do with:
1) People not eating the right foods because they take a vitamin pill everyday and so they think it's OK to have a steady diet of fast-food.
2) People serving themselves HUMONGOUS portions of food at home because that's the portion size they get in a restaurant and they think it's "normal".
3) People eating everything on their plate when what they've been served at a restaurant (or at home) is really enough for 2 or 3 or sometimes 4 meals.

sitting in front of the TV, playstation, computer . . ..

driving instead of walking.

People don't burn the calories they used to in everyday life. But they still eat them like they were working on the farm.

724 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:49:47pm

re: #722 Mr Pancakes

Ummm so what's your point?
/

hehe.
This:

re: #723 ggt

sitting in front of the TV, playstation, computer . . ..

driving instead of walking.

People don't burn the calories they used to in everyday life. But they still eat them like they were working on the farm.

725 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:49:54pm

re: #720 reine.de.tout

I didn't either.
And looking at old photos - people were much slimmer in times when there was NO GYM CLASS in school -

The obesity rate in this country has a lot to do with:
1) People not eating the right foods because they take a vitamin pill everyday and so they think it's OK to have a steady diet of fast-food.
2) People serving themselves HUMONGOUS portions of food at home because that's the portion size they get in a restaurant and they think it's "normal".
3) People eating everything on their plate when what they've been served at a restaurant (or at home) is really enough for 2 or 3 or sometimes 4 meals.

Automobiles. The Italians went from bicycling to middle-class auto ownership in a generation. They recognize the change.

726 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:52:18pm

re: #712 Decatur Deb

We were down with that:

Image: LoretoToner61.JPG

I can't decide whether to ask you to show us on the doll where he touched you, or to just post this, so I guess I'll do both.

727 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:52:34pm

Muslimerican Peter
RT by CuriousLurker

There were some hilarious debates about #coffee in 18th century Europe. Critics called it the "ugly Turkish enchantress." #blamethemuslims
728 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:36pm

re: #727 jaunte

Muslimerican Peter
RT by CuriousLurker

oooh, turkish coffee is like mud.

729 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:53:36pm

re: #725 Decatur Deb

Automobiles. The Italians went from bicycling to middle-class auto ownership in a generation. They recognize the change.

And (at least in the town where I live) - idiotic traffic engineering departments and zoning laws that make it impossible to build a neighborhood where you can walk to where you need to be.

I live a half-mile from the fitness center where I work out and a drugstore where I get my prescriptions filled.

I cannot walk to either of them, or cycle, because in order to do so, I would have to cross two major through-roads with a lot of impatient traffic, and no arrangements made with the signal light cycle for pedestrians to be able to cross the roads.

730 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:54:18pm

re: #728 ggt

oooh, turkish coffee is like mud.

ftfy

731 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:54:59pm

re: #730 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ftfy

No, there is a difference.

Solids at the bottom of turkish coffee.

732 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:55:11pm

re: #726 negativ

I can't decide whether to ask you to show us on the doll where he touched you, or to just post this, so I guess I'll do both.

Our teachers were the best people in the world, but we did freak the mother superior of their congregation when she inspected us from her homebase in Germany, 10 years or so after the war.

733 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:56:41pm

re: #554 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This year is an anomaly. Wait until next year.

It'll heat back up to normal.

Me liberal mum is glad the politicians have been broiling in DC over the weekend.

734 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:57:22pm

re: #733 prairiefire

Me liberal mum is glad the politicians have been broiling in DC over the weekend.

Wasn't it broiling in Philadelphia when they were working out the Declaration?

735 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:58:12pm

re: #728 ggt

oooh, turkish coffee is like mud.

But it will get you jacked!

736 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:58:31pm

re: #731 ggt

No, there is a difference.

Solids at the bottom of turkish coffee.

I was referring to the taste.

737 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 7:59:24pm

re: #736 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was referring to the taste.

big difference.

There isn't enough cream and sugar for turkish coffee, IMHO.

738 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:00:00pm

re: #735 prairiefire

But it will get you jacked!

I can do that with Espresso and it tastes much, much better.

739 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:07pm

re: #702 ggt

OMG! Wear pants, wear skirts, this color, that color.

AMISH UNIFORMS FOR ALL!

There, it's settled.

Nice.
Image: 2008_12_11HotAmishChick2.jpg

740 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:42pm

OMG!

LMAO

741 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:03:47pm

re: #734 ggt

Wasn't it broiling in Philadelphia when they were working out the Declaration?

yes, a horrendous heat wave

742 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:04:54pm

re: #739 Killgore Trout

We're a love blog too!

743 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:06:05pm

We're a love blog that doesn't need to close comments.

744 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:06:52pm

re: #742 jaunte

We're a love blog too!

No, we're a "tough room" blog, as this thread clearly demonstrates. You show up here, you'll only feel the love if you can hold your own. If you just spew talking points, you'll feel the clue-by-four.

745 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:07:41pm

Chiddy Bang: Heatwave

746 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:08pm

re: #743 Charles

We're a love blog that doesn't need to close comments.

Love

so exiciting and and new,

Come aboard . . .

747 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:35pm

re: #739 Killgore Trout

one of the truly great documentary films.

748 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:41pm

re: #746 ggt

Love

so exiciting and and new,

Come aboard . . .

Group hugs everyone.

749 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:43pm

re: #744 Dark_Falcon

Someone earlier said that Robert Spencer hadn't addressed the attack yet. Is that still true?

750 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:50pm

re: #739 Killgore Trout

Nice.
Image: 2008_12_11HotAmishChick2.jpg

It was a movie, Kilgore.

She's not really Amish.

:)

751 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:08:50pm

re: #675 Dark_Falcon

A concession like that I have no problem with. But some practices identified with Islam, such as bad treatment of women, I have a major problem with.

That's a bad rationale for wanting quotas based on ethnicity/ancestry/country of origin.

752 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:16pm

re: #750 ggt

It was a movie, Kilgore.

She's not really Amish.

:)

Rats! You've ruined everything!
/

753 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:19pm

re: #750 ggt

It was a movie, Kilgore.

She's not really Amish.

:)

YOU MEAN THE MOVIE LIED?

754 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:23pm

re: #731 ggt

No, there is a difference.

Solids at the bottom of turkish coffee.

I used to live in North London. My Cypriot neighbors served that under the title of GREEK coffee.

755 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:47pm

re: #734 ggt

Wasn't it broiling in Philadelphia when they were working out the Declaration?

It was, and the poor bastards had no air conditioning.

756 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:10:53pm

re: #751 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's a bad rationale for wanting quotas based on ethnicity/ancestry/country of origin.

I go with a percentage of those that are going to contribute --already have jobs lined-up or means to start their own and those that are going to tax our resources at first. 80/20.

And no, you can't bring your 2nd cousin twice removed just because he wants to come.

757 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:11:09pm

re: #754 SanFranciscoZionist

I am not surprised.

758 jvic  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:11:49pm

Apparently I just lost a week's work through imprudence. Right before backing up, I had to run one more job with a code which had repeatedly crashed my system. I missed the brawl in the comments above and must run off to salvage what I can.

However, I want to declare that, while I don't agree with DF in every particular, he makes sense to me. As Henry XVIII put it, I perceive that that man hath the right sow by the ear.

Maybe I can return to expand on this while the thread is still active.

759 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:11:57pm

re: #741 albusteve

yes, a horrendous heat wave

Maybe something good will come from this heat wave?

think positive . . . .????

maybe

It could happen.

760 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:12:03pm

re: #757 ProLifeLiberal

I am not surprised.

They also sold Greek Delight.

761 Lidane  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:12:28pm

re: #742 jaunte

We're a love blog too!

762 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:12:56pm

re: #753 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

YOU MEAN THE MOVIE LIED?

Well, yeah, they lied.

763 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:13:09pm

For the Fallout: NV fans, just for fun, I just armed Boone with the CZ57 Avenger, 2000 round of ammo and am about to pay Caesar's camp a visit.
I'll be using the FIDO from Old World Blues.

764 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:13:20pm

re: #755 SanFranciscoZionist

It was, and the poor bastards had no air conditioning.

I'll bet shit would get done in DC if we just turned off the A/C..

765 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:13:57pm

I had mango pudding last week at the Indian buffet. AND lentil fritters.

mmmmmmm, good!

766 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:14:08pm

re: #743 Charles

We're a love blog that doesn't need to close comments.

I'm eating vegetables, right now, right this very minute.

/tears of indescribable joy

767 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:14:11pm

re: #753 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

YOU MEAN THE MOVIE LIED?

But the barn was real.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

768 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:14:13pm

re: #764 HoosierHoops

I'll bet shit would get done in DC if we just turned off the A/C..

ooh, rotating title?

769 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:14:45pm

re: #763 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Record your shenanigans please. I really do want to see.

770 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:15:00pm

re: #767 Decatur Deb

But the barn was real.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Lies. It was only a model.

771 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:15:05pm

re: #746 ggt

Love

so exiciting and and new,

Come aboard . . .

WE'RE EXPECTING YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

772 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:15:26pm

re: #759 ggt

Maybe something good will come from this heat wave?

think positive . . .???

maybe

It could happen.

I'm not concerned about the debt ceiling...I thinks it's all posturing and it really irritates me because it's taking up way too much time and effort...it's more about ego than principle

773 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:15:45pm

re: #740 ggt

OMG!

LMAO

Somebody, anybody, watch this video

774 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:15:46pm

re: #761 Lidane

[Video]

My younger brothers did not appreciate me playing this at 11 before school!

775 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:16:22pm

re: #767 Decatur Deb

But the barn was real.

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

"David Cronenberg was originally asked to direct."

That would have been strange.

776 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:16:24pm

re: #760 SanFranciscoZionist

To the greeks:

Just because you change something's name, or modify it in a similar way, does not mean it does not exist. Turkey is there, bigger than you, (in my opinion) better than you.

777 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:16:52pm

re: #764 HoosierHoops

I'll bet shit would get done in DC if we just turned off the A/C..

not minutes ago a srorm blew over my place...temp from 89 to 69 in minutes...exactly like turning on the AC...what a rush

778 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:17:33pm

re: #770 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lies. It was only a model.

Nope. (My favorite Habitat Porn.)

"...snipwas offered the part in the film on the same day that he was offered to play a role in "Henry V" in Shakespeare in the Park in New York.

An actual barn was built as a result of the shooting of the barn-raising scene, but it was torn-down shortly afterwards.
Share this Hide options

The climax at the final scene was inspired in part by High Noon, in which an outnumbered ..."

779 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:17:33pm

re: #765 ggt

I had mango pudding last week at the Indian buffet. AND lentil fritters.

mmm, good!

naan bread, did I mention the naan bread. Hot, fresh,

mmmmmmm

780 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:17:40pm

re: #60 blueraven

It is just so hard for us to comprehend, we always think they must be insane or something.

BTW thank you for your excellent synopsis of his manifesto in the article comments and pages you posted yesterday. You, Charles, Olsonist(sp?) Gus, and several others that I would have to look up names, really have made LGF the top spot for the truth about this monster.

Thanks, but I don't do any of the heavy lifting around here. Really, it must have been someone else.

781 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:18:36pm

re: #766 negativ

I'm eating vegetables, right now, right this very minute.

/tears of indescribable joy

And I thought I was the only one I knew that actually ate my veggies.

782 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:18:56pm

re: #781 laZardo

And I thought I was the only one I knew that actually ate my veggies.

FBV and I eat ours.

783 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:14pm

re: #773 ggt

Didn't load past a black screen--slow connect, maybe.

784 jaunte  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:16pm

Earthquake in Japan:

TOKYO, July 25 (Xinhua) -- An earthquake measuring 6.2 on the Richter scale jolted Japan's northeastern Fukushima Prefecture and its vicinity on early Monday Morning, said the Japan Meteorological Agency.

The focus of the quake, which occurred at 03:51 a.m. local time was located some 40 km under the sea off Fukushima, said the agency.
[Link: news.xinhuanet.com...]

785 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:26pm

re: #773 ggt

Somebody, anybody, watch this video

OMG, I was just on a commuter train on Wed. Very funny.

786 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:36pm

re: #776 ProLifeLiberal

To the greeks:

Just because you change something's name, or modify it in a similar way, does not mean it does not exist. Turkey is there, bigger than you, (in my opinion) better than you.

Turkey has some serious social problems of its own, and Erdogen often seems like a tyrant in waiting. But despite that, Turkey does live within its means, and that does mean they're not up to their eyes in debt like Greece.

787 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:36pm

re: #777 albusteve

not minutes ago a srorm blew over my place...temp from 89 to 69 in minutes...exactly like turning on the AC...what a rush

The weather is miserable here..There is no relief in sight

788 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:19:42pm

re: #782 ggt

FBV and I eat ours.

I eat mine too with copious amounts of butter.....

789 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:20:48pm

re: #778 Decatur Deb

Nope. (My favorite Habitat Porn.)

"...snipwas offered the part in the film on the same day that he was offered to play a role in "Henry V" in Shakespeare in the Park in New York.

An actual barn was built as a result of the shooting of the barn-raising scene, but it was torn-down shortly afterwards.
Share this Hide options

The climax at the final scene was inspired in part by High Noon, in which an outnumbered ..."

LIES!

790 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:21:24pm

re: #788 Mr Pancakes

I eat mine too with copious amounts of butter...

I ate some dilly beans last week...maybe the week before

791 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:22:02pm

re: #743 Charles

We're a love blog that doesn't need to close comments.

Let it all hang out, baby.

792 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:22:05pm

re: #789 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LIES!

DAMN LIES!

793 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:22:36pm

re: #783 Decatur Deb

Didn't load past a black screen--slow connect, maybe.

sorry . . .

794 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:23:09pm

re: #790 albusteve

I ate some dilly beans last week...maybe the week before

I love dill...... always have some on hand. I'll have to do the dilly beans sometime.

795 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:23:39pm

re: #787 HoosierHoops

The weather is miserable here..There is no relief in sight

without the monsoon, I doubt anybody would live down here...it's an event we wait all season for....at 5-6000ft the sun is scorching hot

796 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:24:40pm

re: #795 albusteve

without the monsoon, I doubt anybody would live down here...it's an event we wait all season for...at 5-6000ft the sun is scorching hot

but, it's a dry heat . . .

797 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:25:00pm

re: #794 Mr Pancakes

I love dill... always have some on hand. I'll have to do the dilly beans sometime.

I chase them with vodka, it enhances the dilly

798 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:25:23pm

re: #786 Dark_Falcon

Also Greece gave a green light to Serbia in the 90's for their evil against the Bosnians and Albanians and allowed Greeks to go there and participate in the Genocides.

While the Turks did not like our action in Libya at first, they did not do that.

799 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:25:44pm

re: #793 ggt

sorry . . .

Got it now--cringing with the passengers.

800 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:25:45pm

Your High-Drama 80s Keyboards Clip of the Day:

801 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:26:01pm

re: #787 HoosierHoops

The weather is miserable here..There is no relief in sight

I lived in Joshua Tree Ca for years....... you just make do somehow.

802 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:27:06pm

re: #796 ggt

but, it's a dry heat . . .

so is a micro wave or laser...I've seen people simply smoulder then burst into flame because they went out without their sombrero

803 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:28:04pm

re: #801 Mr Pancakes

I lived in Joshua Tree Ca for years... you just make do somehow.

a thing you will forever have in common with the horned toad

804 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:28:10pm

...I just realized I've never been on LGF this "early" that many times before.

805 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:28:32pm

re: #800 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Your High-Drama 80s Keyboards Clip of the Day:

[Video]

I would have thought you would have gone a bit deeper than that.....

806 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:28:42pm

re: #795 albusteve

without the monsoon, I doubt anybody would live down here...it's an event we wait all season for...at 5-6000ft the sun is scorching hot

Since they moved me to Oklahoma I've been through a Blizzard, An Ice Storm, Tornado's, 80 mph hail storms and a million degree heat wave..
I mean really...What the hell is left? Locusts?

807 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:28:51pm

re: #804 laZardo

...I just realized I've never been on LGF this "early" that many times before.



Here ya go.

:P

808 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:29:03pm

re: #798 ProLifeLiberal

Also Greece gave a green light to Serbia in the 90's for their evil against the Bosnians and Albanians and allowed Greeks to go there and participate in the Genocides.

While the Turks did not like our action in Libya at first, they did not do that.

That I did not know. Do you have a link for that? I ask not to question your honesty, but rather so I may study these facts myself.

However, I must also tell you this thread is being blogstalked and a post like yours that talks about the wars of the former Yugoslavia from a accurate perspective (i.e. that the Serbs committed genocide) is likely to draw fixation from the Stalkers. Doesn't mean you shouldn't post it, but do be aware it may cause hate-spewing in your direction.

809 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:30:44pm

re: #806 HoosierHoops

Since they moved me to Oklahoma I've been through a Blizzard, An Ice Storm, Tornado's, 80 mph hail storms and a million degree heat wave..
I mean really...What the hell is left? Locusts?

Plagues.
Gamma ray bursts.
Supernovae.
Superlasers.
Asteroids.
Rogue planets.
Ant Overlords.
The Macarena.
Lions.
Tigers.
Possibly Bears.

810 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:31:41pm

re: #803 albusteve

a thing you will forever have in common with the horned toad

Used to catch them all the time...... very docile creatures. Would wake up and find a dozen or so turtles around the house in the morning too. Joshua Tree would have annual turtle races...... but I guess they've stopped that since there aren't many turtles around there anymore........ sad.

811 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:31:51pm

re: #805 Mr Pancakes

I would have thought you would have gone a bit deeper than that...

[Video]

Lol *every* Gary Numan song is high-drama 80s kb's.

812 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:31:53pm

re: #809 Varek Raith

Plagues.
Gamma ray bursts.
Supernovae.
Superlasers.
Asteroids.
Rogue planets.
Ant Overlords.
The Macarena.
Lions.
Tigers.
Possibly Bears.

There are only two things I take my hat off for. One is the national anthem. The other is the Macarena.

813 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:32:57pm

re: #809 Varek Raith

Plagues.
Gamma ray bursts.
Supernovae.
Superlasers.
Asteroids.
Rogue planets.
Ant Overlords.
The Macarena.
Lions.
Tigers.
Possibly Bears.

And the Galaxy Gun, and the Sun Crusher.

814 laZardo  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:32:59pm

re: #809 Varek Raith

Plagues.
Gamma ray bursts.
Supernovae.
Superlasers.
Asteroids.
Rogue planets.
Ant Overlords.
The Macarena.
Lions.
Tigers.
Possibly Bears.

And this.

815 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:33:10pm

re: #806 HoosierHoops

Since they moved me to Oklahoma I've been through a Blizzard, An Ice Storm, Tornado's, 80 mph hail storms and a million degree heat wave..
I mean really...What the hell is left? Locusts?

I warned you when you left Indy that you were gonna get hot....OK os on the belt that gets the extremes, but I doubt you'll get snowed in for days at a time...I like it up there, I like the people

816 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:33:14pm

re: #812 darthstar

There are only two things I take my hat off for. One is the national anthem. The other is the Macarena.

SMACK!

817 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:34:03pm

re: #812 darthstar

There are only two things I take my hat off for. One is the national anthem. The other is the Macarena.

Saying that makes me want to throw the other things on that list at you.
:P

818 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:34:11pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

However, I must also tell you this thread is being blogstalked and a post like yours that talks about the wars of the former Yugoslavia from a accurate perspective (i.e. that the Serbs committed genocide) is likely to draw fixation from the Stalkers. Doesn't mean you shouldn't post it, but do be aware it may cause hate-spewing in your direction.

That's an odd thing to say.

819 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:35:30pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

However, I must also tell you this thread is being blogstalked and a post like yours that talks about the wars of the former Yugoslavia from a accurate perspective (i.e. that the Serbs committed genocide) is likely to draw fixation from the Stalkers. Doesn't mean you shouldn't post it, but do be aware it may cause hate-spewing in your direction.

You seriously obsess over those clowns way too much.

820 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:35:48pm

re: #818 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's an odd thing to say.

Weirdly, it is quite true.

821 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:36:03pm

re: #815 albusteve

I warned you when you left Indy that you were gonna get hot...OK os on the belt that gets the extremes, but I doubt you'll get snowed in for days at a time...I like it up there, I like the people

I really like the people here..Complete surprise.. Living in a college town really rocks...

822 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:37:27pm

re: #819 goddamnedfrank

You seriously obsess over those clowns way too much.

Likely true.

823 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:38:09pm

re: #819 goddamnedfrank

You seriously obsess over those clowns way too much.

"If a deranged cyberstalker makes an insignificant comment on their own site and no one mentions it, does it have an impact?"

No.

824 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:40:06pm

re: #821 HoosierHoops

I really like the people here..Complete surprise.. Living in a college town really rocks...

we used to hang out in Ann Arbor all the time back in high school and after...then my boy went to UM...that town has so much sophistication, tempered with a major college...big time sports, arts, science research, entertainment...it's the greatest town of it's size in America....I suspect Norman is a close second....like that anyway

825 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:41:31pm

re: #823 publicityStunted

They don't stay on the reservation.

826 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:42:30pm

re: #817 Varek Raith

Saying that makes me want to throw the other things on that list at you.
:P

I've always wanted a supernova.

827 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:43:12pm

re: #823 publicityStunted

"If a deranged cyberstalker makes an insignificant comment on their own site and no one mentions it, does it have an impact?"

No.

It just seems an odd reason, after all the crap people say at LGF, on this thread even, to use to silence someone.

828 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:43:12pm

re: #822 Dark_Falcon

Likely true.

take them off your plate...
I'm not gonna blow my top again

829 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:43:31pm

re: #808 Dark_Falcon

As you wish:

A) The Greek Volunteer Force
-Present at Srebrenica, fighting under Ratko Mladic

B) Statement by Prime Minister Papandreou in late 1994

In December 1994, after official talks with Milošević in Athens, Papandreou reiterated that the positions of Greece and Serbia on the Bosnia issue were virtually identical.

C) Greek Interference in NATO operations:

According to University of Amsterdam professor 'C. Wiebes', the Hellenic National Intelligence Service (EYP) systematically sabotaged NATO operations in Bosnia in the mid-1990s, in an attempt to aid Bosnian Serb nationalists. In his report for the Dutch government, entitled Intelligence en de oorlog in Bosnie 1992-1995, Wiebes claims that EYP leaked classified NATO military plans (to which, as an allied intelligence service, it had access) to the Serb Bosnian leadership, and often to General Ratko Mladic himself, during the summer of 1995. Eventually, Wiebes states in the report, NATO allies ceased sharing NATO military plans with the Greek authorities.

D)And the entirety of Kosovo:


NATO's bombardment of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia caused a strong popular reaction in Greece, Prime Minister Costas Simitis sought a political solution to the Kosovo conflict. Greece refused to participate in the strikes against Yugoslavia.

Several polls were conducted, of which revealed that 99.5% of the Greek population were completely opposed to the bombing, with 85% believing Nato's motives were strategic and not humanitarian. 69% wanted Bill Clinton tried for war crimes, while 52% opposed the admittance of Kosovo Albanian refugees to Greece.

20 Greek judges of the supreme court (Council of State) found NATO guilty of war crimes. The Council of State officially declared NATO and Bill Clinton guilty of war crimes.

During a C-SPAN discussion in 2005 with General Wesley Allen Clark, the commander of NATO during the Kosovo War and Nato bombings, it was reported that several Greek non-governmental organizations were sending relief supplies in the middle of the bombings, which caused the bombing of certain targets more difficult, the intention of the organizations was to forestall the military action by sending humanitarian aid to the Kosovo Serb enclaves.

The Greeks are very Anti-American. I'll return the favor

830 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:43:36pm

re: #826 darthstar

I've always wanted a supernova.

Here you go.

831 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:43:53pm

re: #824 albusteve

UM - a bunch of Tempo driving freaks up there.
/

832 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:44:20pm

re: #825 Decatur Deb

They don't stay on the reservation.

Yeah, but so what? I've given more thought to combating static cling.

833 simoom  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:44:28pm

I haven't downloaded the Oslo Terrorist's manifesto and I don't plan to but I've seen this bit quoted in a couple of places (p.1266):

’God Bless America!

We are calling for the impeachment of ALL Senators and Representatives who have voted, or are planning to vote, to expand the control of government. Republican/Democrat/Independent... no matter. We determine their guilt or innocence based on their voting record.

Additionally, we are calling for President Barrack Obama’s Impeachment for actually saying he was a Marxist, as well as not being able to provide proof of American citizenship.

We are calling for all Conservative Members of The House of Representatives to bring all leftist voting members up for impeachment under the guise that they are voting in accordance with Marxists beliefs in order to expand government control over every facet of our lives. Because it is unlikely that Congress will impeach itself, it is our sole purpose to have these leftists labeled Socialist/Marxists so that their constituency can see them for what they truly are and fail to re-elect them in the future. Any damage done to this nation should be squarely placed on their shoulders and worn for life. These men and women are a disgrace to their offices, and should therefore be labeled and removed. We know it sounds old fashion, but folks... we can no longer afford to be lenient in the description of those that are harming America. Call a spade a spade.

So Far... AIM has Identified the following Senators: (AGAIN... We DO NOT determine association with Marxists beliefs according to party affiliation, only voting record. Additionally, this list is incomplete and growing. If you have someone you believe should be on it, please let us know. Currently we are looking for more Republicans that deserve the label “Marxist.”)

ALABAMA:
...

The part after "God Bless America!" seems to be ripped verbatim from this Facebook group:
AIM - Americans for the Impeachment of Marxists

Apparently, at the very least, Breivik was a fan of theirs.

834 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:44:30pm

re: #830 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Here you go.

Oh, that's a sexy car.

835 Gus  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:44:45pm

Mladic the Monster
Our failure to respond to the Serbian atrocities prolonged the slaughter.
By Christopher HitchensPosted Monday, May 30, 2011, at 12:48 PM ET

Srebrenica is one of the best-documented atrocities in modern history. We have everything, from real-time satellite surveillance (shamefully available to the United States even as the butchery was going on) to film and video taken by the perpetrators, including Mladic himself. The production of this material in court will, one hopes, wipe any potential grin from his face and destroy the propaganda image of the simple patriotic man at arms. Whatever our policy on monsters abroad may turn out to be, at least we should be able to recognize one when we see one.

I suppose it is possible that the arrest of Gen. Ratko Mladic is as undramatic and uncomplicated as it seems and that in recent years he had been off the active list and gradually became a mumbling old derelict with a rather nasty line in veterans' reminiscences. His demands would probably have been modest and few: the odd glass of slivovitz in company with a sympathetic priest (it's usually the Serbian Orthodox Church that operates the support and counseling network for burned-out or wanted war criminals) and an occasional hunting or skiing trip. Though there is something faintly satisfying about this clichéd outcome—the figure of energetic evil reduced to a husk of exhausted banality—there is also something repellent about it.

As a confused old pensioner or retiree, Mladic is in danger of arousing local sympathy in rather the same way John Demjanjuk did but of doing so within a few years of the original atrocities and not several decades. Moreover, Mladic was a director and organizer of the mass slaughters at Srebrenica and Zepa (as of the obscene bombardment of the open city of Sarajevo), and not a mere follower of orders. The new and allegedly reformist Serbian government bears some responsibility for this moment of moral nullity and confusion, since it seems to regard the arrest of Mladic and his political boss Radovan Karadzic as little more than an episode in the warming of Belgrade's relations with the European Union. You don't have to be a practicing Serbo-chauvinist to find something a bit trivial and sordid in that calculation. (And what if it doesn't prove possible to stretch the increasingly inelastic Eurozone to accommodate Serbia's pressing needs and add them to those of Greece and Ireland? A possible hostage to fortune here.)

Continue reading.

836 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:45:05pm

re: #824 albusteve

we used to hang out in Ann Arbor all the time back in high school and after...then my boy went to UM...that town has so much sophistication, tempered with a major college...big time sports, arts, science research, entertainment...it's the greatest town of it's size in America...I suspect Norman is a close second...like that anyway

Norman is awesome..We'll have 35,000 kids back in town in another month for the OU School year... I have my tickets for Ball State vs OU..
Remember 18 months ago I thought I was going to Singapore and learned to speak and write some Chinese.. I had to do the paperwork to bring Winston into the Country..
And here I am.. In Oklahoma

837 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:45:10pm

re: #763 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

For the Fallout: NV fans, just for fun, I just armed Boone with the CZ57 Avenger, 2000 round of ammo and am about to pay Caesar's camp a visit.
I'll be using the FIDO from Old World Blues.

Boone is an ASSHOLE, and tragic though it was, it was his own damned fault that his wife was sold into slavery by a hotel manager. How pathetic do you have to be to let the town spinster sell your wife and unborn child into slavery, right under your nose?

I'm lucky enough to have found a friend who goes by the name of Rose of Sharon Cassidy. She's profoundly damaged, but then again, so am I. So are we all. I am at once amused, impressed, and terrified by the precision with which she handles a shotgun. I've seen her take out radscorpions at 40+ meters, before I had even noticed them.

I intend to find the man who shot me. All I remember is that he wore a checkered coat.

So many blackout boozy campfire nights we've spent together, talking about the NRC and the Powder Gangers and the Vaults. Man oh man oh man, how did we go so wrong? Prometheus must be unspeakably disappointed ... unless this is what he had in mind all along.

838 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:46:18pm

re: #825 Decatur Deb

They don't stay on the reservation.

Death threats, cybervandalism, nic-jacking, and threats to "out" someone are legitimate issues to be alerted to. Anything else is playing into their hands and giving them exactly what they want.

839 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:46:40pm

re: #831 darthstar

UM - a bunch of Tempo driving freaks up there.
/

Tempo schmempo
A2 rocks

840 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:46:54pm

re: #806 HoosierHoops

Since they moved me to Oklahoma I've been through a Blizzard, An Ice Storm, Tornado's, 80 mph hail storms and a million degree heat wave..
I mean really...What the hell is left? Locusts?

Oh yeah, we get locust hoards in the Mid West.

841 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:46:58pm

re: #818 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's an odd thing to say.

Yes, it is. But I think its relevant. Those loons have certain fixation points and while I don't want to discourage people from posting things, I do think wise to let them know if they're going to draw fire from the Stalkers. Especially PLL, whom they'll call an "Islamic Supremacist" or some such vile thing like that there.

842 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:47:34pm

re: #829 ProLifeLiberal

As you wish:

A) The Greek Volunteer Force
-Present at Srebrenica, fighting under Ratko Mladic

B) Statement by Prime Minister Papandreou in late 1994

C) Greek Interference in NATO operations:

D)And the entirety of Kosovo:

The Greeks are very Anti-American. I'll return the favor

Awww, but that might hurt Robert Spencer's feelings! ///

843 Kragar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:49:57pm

re: #837 negativ

Boone is an ASSHOLE, and tragic though it was, it was his own damned fault that his wife was sold into slavery by a hotel manager. How pathetic do you have to be to let the town spinster sell your wife and unborn child into slavery, right under your nose?

I'm lucky enough to have found a friend who goes by the name of Rose of Sharon Cassidy. She's profoundly damaged, but then again, so am I. So are we all. I am at once amused, impressed, and terrified by the precision with which she handles a shotgun. I've seen her take out radscorpions at 40+ meters, before I had even noticed them.

I intend to find the man who shot me. All I remember is that he wore a checkered coat.

So many blackout boozy campfire nights we've spent together, talking about the NRC and the Powder Gangers and the Vaults. Man oh man oh man, how did we go so wrong? Prometheus must be unspeakably disappointed ... unless this is what he had in mind all along.

I keep Boone around for special occasions. The rest of the time, Veronica and I are getting into trouble together.

844 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:50:31pm

re: #838 publicityStunted

I've encountered mildly strange stuff close to home. If it were much of a problem I'd pursue it with Charles.

845 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:50:48pm

re: #809 Varek Raith

Plagues.
Gamma ray bursts.
Supernovae.
Superlasers.
Asteroids.
Rogue planets.
Ant Overlords.
The Macarena.
Lions.
Tigers.
Possibly Bears.

Not The Macarana? Say, it ain't so . . .

846 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:51:05pm

re: #829 ProLifeLiberal

Thank you for that. The "Greek Volunteer Guard should go down in history as the kin of the SS formations raised from occupied countries.

Note: Given that these "Volunteers" were involved in acts of genocide, Godwin's Law does not apply.

847 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:51:27pm

re: #836 HoosierHoops

Including Me!

re: #842 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My response to Spencer.

848 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:02pm

re: #841 Dark_Falcon

whom they'll call an "Islamic Supremacist" or some such vile thing like that there.

Words. They aren't exactly sticks or stones, and online they're even more meaningless - especially from the likes of stalkers, Geller defenders, bigots, and fools.

849 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:34pm

re: #845 ggt

Not The Macarana? Say, it ain't so . . .

Heyyy, Macarena!

850 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:52:35pm

re: #836 HoosierHoops

Norman is awesome..We'll have 35,000 kids back in town in another month for the OU School year... I have my tickets for Ball State vs OU..
Remember 18 months ago I thought I was going to Singapore and learned to speak and write some Chinese.. I had to do the paperwork to bring Winston into the Country..
And here I am.. In Oklahoma

yes I remember but OK came sooner than Singapore

851 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:53:09pm

re: #847 ProLifeLiberal

Including Me!

re: #842 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My response to Spencer.

I'd rather have photo where the cat pissed on Spencer's leg. But cats do that to claim territory, no cat would be dumb enough to claim that turd blossom.

852 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:04pm

re: #841 Dark_Falcon

Ehh, I've gotten worse.

Biden said something special back in the 90's (He was one of those who pushed in the Senate for action).

During the 1999 NATO attack on Slobodan Milosevic's Serbia, he appeared on Meet the Press (9 May 1999) and called for "a Japanese-German style occupation of that country, while his son publicly praised the Albanians' resolve in expelling the "degenerate thugs" from Kosovo".

He was angry at the Serbs, as you can tell.

853 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:05pm

re: #841 Dark_Falcon

Yes, it is. But I think its relevant. Those loons have certain fixation points and while I don't want to discourage people from posting things, I do think wise to let them know if they're going to draw fire from the Stalkers. Especially PLL, whom they'll call an "Islamic Supremacist" or some such vile thing like that there.

That's exactly how conformists keep other conformists in line, playing to what will the neighbors think mentality. Thankfully, Charles doesn't play that game.

854 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:15pm

re: #833 simoom

I haven't downloaded the Oslo Terrorist's manifesto and I don't plan to but I've seen this bit quoted in a couple of places (p.1266):

The part after "God Bless America!" seems to be ripped verbatim from this Facebook group:
AIM - Americans for the Impeachment of Marxists

Apparently, at the very least, Breivik was a fan of theirs.

WTF, anyone from another country telling us what to do with our government. Much less a psychopath terrorist murderer of children.

855 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:20pm

re: #806 HoosierHoops

Since they moved me to Oklahoma I've been through a Blizzard, An Ice Storm, Tornado's, 80 mph hail storms and a million degree heat wave..
I mean really...What the hell is left? Locusts?

We get naturally occurring plague, anthrax, West Nile virus, and jumping horny toad pelagic fever, too. Also, jackelopes.

856 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:54:47pm

re: #847 ProLifeLiberal

My response to Spencer.

Lol that is hilarious.

857 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:56:58pm

re: #855 austin_blue

We get naturally occurring plague, anthrax, West Nile virus, and jumping horny toad pelagic fever, too. Also, jackelopes.

Guess what..Austin got the United States Grand Prix.. I'll be hanging out in your town this year.. I Love F1

858 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:57:09pm

re: #781 laZardo

And I thought I was the only one I knew that actually ate my veggies.

You are.

WE ALL LIED - NOBODY HAS EVER EATEN THEIR VEGGIES EXCEPT YOU

859 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:58:08pm

re: #834 darthstar

Oh, that's a sexy car.

THIS is a sexy car.

or this.

860 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:58:51pm

re: #833 simoom

I saw the list on 1267, too (Charles may have quoted this too, iirc)

Large patriotic Facebook groups - pan-European groups:
- Take America Back (19k members)
- English Defence League (11k members)
- Ban Islam!! (3k members)
- Stop Islamisation, wake up Europe (3k members)
- Stop Islamisation of Europe (5k members)
- Stop Islamization of America (3k members)
- Contre l'islamisation de l'Europe / Against Islamisation of Europe (13k members)
- I Support Israel in the War Against Terrorism (72k members) this groups is full of Western
patriots (Euro-Americans), not particularly targeted at European nationalists though.
Geert Wilders (fan page – 5k members)
- Fan pages of every European right wing political party (100-200k members)
- Take America Back

Teabagger mentality.

861 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 8:59:12pm

re: #859 ggt

THIS is a sexy car.

or this.


I like Jags.

862 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:00:26pm

Amy Winehouse in 2005[Link: talkingpointsmemo.com...]

863 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:26pm

re: #857 HoosierHoops

Guess what..Austin got the United States Grand Prix.. I'll be hanging out in your town this year.. I Love F1

Yeah, and Texas is "only" giving Bernie the Douche $25 million/year for ten years as a ransom.

Give us a shout. We'll get some real Interior Meskin food. It's killer bee.

864 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:31pm

re: #855 austin_blue

We get naturally occurring plague, anthrax, West Nile virus, and jumping horny toad pelagic fever, too. Also, jackelopes.

I've seen the Boon and Crockett monster up in Sweetwater, Wyoming...80 pounds sitting on the end of the bar at Lickners Saloon, adore: #859 ggt

THIS is a sexy car.

or this.

rned to this day with Christmas tree lights

much rather own the Corvette

865 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:40pm

re: #859 ggt

THIS is a sexy car.

or this.

Mine (well,, not that specific one,, but same make/model/color)

[Link: vehicles.oodle.com...]

866 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:01:49pm

re: #862 prairiefire

Amy Winehouse in 2005[Link: talkingpointsmemo.com...]

Banner ad at TPM for that link was for the Betty Ford center.

867 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:02:45pm

re: #864 albusteve

#864 ought to be deleted...what a mess...

868 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:04:18pm

re: #863 austin_blue

Yeah, and Texas is "only" giving Bernie the Douche $25 million/year for ten years as a ransom.

Give us a shout. We'll get some real Interior Meskin food. It's killer bee.

Bernie screwed Indy.. But I love F1..So I'll be spending the weekend in Austin...

869 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:04:24pm

re: #861 darthstar

I like Jags.

commie

870 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:04:42pm

re: #862 prairiefire

Amy Winehouse in 2005[Link: talkingpointsmemo.com...]

That was fabulous.

871 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:05:16pm

And my internet decided to be special again.

872 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:05:52pm

re: #853 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's exactly how conformists keep other conformists in line, playing to what will the neighbors think mentality. Thankfully, Charles doesn't play that game.

It's not "keeping people in line". What it is is warning someone that assholes may fixate on them. I applaud PLL for knowing that and posting it. But I felt he should know how the assholes might react.

873 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:06:15pm

re: #867 albusteve

#864 ought to be deleted...what a mess...

It's okay...we all just figure you're drunk.

874 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:06:31pm

Kate Moss hologram by ALexander McQueen:

875 darthstar  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:07:44pm

Hey...it's after 9pm! I can go to bed now and not feel like an old fart for doing so.

Laters!

876 albusteve  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:08:52pm

re: #873 darthstar

It's okay...we all just figure you're drunk.

distracted...be polite

877 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:08:54pm

re: #867 albusteve

#864 ought to be deleted...what a mess...

Yeah, but your heart was in the right place. Bygones.

(Actually, a Boone & Crockett jackalope is hilarious! Is there a picture out there?)re: #784 jaunte

Earthquake in Japan:

After that extraordianary rupture, they will be having fives and sixes for a year until everything gets settled down. Rock at depth is plastic, but not so plastic that it immediately accommodates to the new normal.

Geology is fun! Whee!

878 Digital Display  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:09:10pm

Am I the only person that doesn't want to wake up Monday Morning and go to work? Can we just get rid of Mondays and nobody go to work till Tuesday? I hate Monday mornings...

879 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 24, 2011 9:09:21pm

re: #872 Dark_Falcon

It's not "keeping people in line". What it is is warning someone that assholes may fixate on them. I applaud PLL for knowing that and posting it. B