NYT: US ‘Counter-Jihad’ Bloggers Heavily Influenced Oslo Terrorist

‘This rhetoric is not cost-free’
World • Views: 49,757

In the New York Times, Scott Shane looks at the undeniable influence of people like Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller on the Oslo terrorist: Killings in Norway Spotlight Anti-Muslim Thought in U.S.

In the document he posted online, Anders Behring Breivik, who is accused of bombing government buildings and killing scores of young people at a Labor Party camp, showed that he had closely followed the acrimonious American debate over Islam.

His manifesto, which denounced Norwegian politicians as failing to defend the country from Islamic influence, quoted Robert Spencer, who operates the Jihad Watch Web site, 64 times, and cited other Western writers who shared his view that Muslim immigrants pose a grave danger to Western culture.

The “counter-jihad” keyboard warriors are shocked and outraged, of course, at the suggestion that the vicious bile and hatred they spew on a daily basis could have anything to do with this atrocity.

The revelations about Mr. Breivik’s American influences exploded on the blogs over the weekend, putting Mr. Spencer and other self-described “counterjihad” activists on the defensive, as their critics suggested that their portrayal of Islam as a threat to the West indirectly fostered the crimes in Norway.

Mr. Spencer wrote on his Web site, jihadwatch.org, that “the blame game” had begun, “as if killing a lot of children aids the defense against the global jihad and Islamic supremacism, or has anything remotely to do with anything we have ever advocated.” He did not mention Mr. Breivik’s voluminous quotations from his writings.

The Gates of Vienna, a blog that ordinarily keeps up a drumbeat of anti-Islamist news and commentary, closed its pages to comments Sunday “due to the unusual situation in which it has recently found itself.”

Its operator, who describes himself as a Virginia consultant and uses the pseudonym “Baron Bodissey,” wrote on the site Sunday that “at no time has any part of the Counterjihad advocated violence.”

And as usual, the most incoherent defense comes from hate group leader Pamela Geller:

Mr. Breivik frequently cited another blog, Atlas Shrugs, and recommended the Gates of Vienna among Web sites. Pamela Geller, an outspoken critic of Islam who runs Atlas Shrugs, wrote on her blog Sunday that any assertion that she or other antijihad writers bore any responsibility for Mr. Breivik’s actions was “ridiculous.”

“If anyone incited him to violence, it was Islamic supremacists,” she wrote.

As I wrote yesterday, the chain of responsibility in this case is much clearer than it was in the Gabrielle Giffords shooting. There’s no doubt whatsoever that Anders Behring Breivik was seriously influenced by these people, and they know it. Their guilty consciences are showing.

Jump to bottom

56 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 9:56:05am

Even if Brevik is found to have tattos of Spencer's and Geller's mouths on the palms of his hand, they will continue to deny any influence.

2 makeitstop  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 9:58:39am

I have no expectation that Geller or Spencer will stop their incitement - without it they are nothing.

It is heartening to see that they are being identified as the haters they are, though.

3 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:00:17am
As I wrote yesterday, the chain of responsibility in this case is much clearer than it was in the Gabrielle Giffords shooting.

This is exactly why I wrote "Stop Being Paranoid of SP". It got an ok response, especially given the climate at the time. But I do hope people now see the difference between actual incitement and wish-it-was incitement.

4 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:01:27am

re: #1 ralphieboy

Even if Brevik is found to have tattos of Spencer's and Geller's mouths on the palms of his hand, they will continue to deny any influence.

It's because our incitement laws are set with the bar so high. The bigots use it to their advantage.

5 avanti  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:02:31am

What if they had a mosque protest on the tenth anniversary of Sept 11 and only Pam showed up ? This tragedy should really cut down attendance IMHO.

6 kirkspencer  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:05:20am

As I just noted on the previous thread, almost everything that wasn't Breivik's original writing (aka almost the entire manifesto) is original source, copied, or referenced from JihadWatch. It's the cornerstone - the linch pin - of the movement.

7 RIRedinPA  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:05:36am

The irony of this is that Geller is the queen of guilt by association for any Muslim (the Imam of the NY mosque/center near ground zero comes to mind) where regardless of the degrees of separation, if there is the flimsiest of connections to fundamentalist Islam then you are as guilty as the perpetrators of terrorist acts themselves.

Now that the tables have been turned to some extent she cries foul.

8 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:06:26am

re: #4 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It's because our incitement laws are set with the bar so high. The bigots use it to their advantage.

They are a double-edged sword. They can be used to silence all forms of dissent. it is just important for people to see that there is a very clear and direct connection in this case and to see that the threat to them and their children is very real.

9 Gus  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:11:55am

re: #8 ralphieboy

They are a double-edged sword. They can be used to silence all forms of dissent. it is just important for people to see that there is a very clear and direct connection in this case and to see that the threat to them and their children is very real.

Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444 (1969), was a United States Supreme Court case based on the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action. In particular, it overruled Ohio's criminal syndicalism statute, because that statute broadly prohibited the mere advocacy of violence...

10 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:13:37am

re: #8 ralphieboy

They are a double-edged sword. They can be used to silence all forms of dissent. it is just important for people to see that there is a very clear and direct connection in this case and to see that the threat to them and their children is very real.

Yea, tbh I would not trade them for any country's speech laws. But dang, when the KKK can threaten "revengeance" the Jews, n-s and our supporters into the public square and that's not incitement, just dang.

11 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:14:23am

I found this remark by Spencer to be revealing:

SIOA and SIOE declare our sympathy for the victims and relatives of the victims of the heinous mass murders in Norway. We denounce the attacker and reiterate our dedication to the defense of free societies and opposition to all vigilantism and violence.

Throwing in the word 'vigilantism' implies Breivik is 'one who decides to stop crime or punish criminals independently of the law', when in fact he murdered innocents. (That's from Spencer's post titled "The blame game".)

I was going to point out the irony of his link to "The Center for Vigilant Freedom", but I discovered they have changed their name to the "International Civil Liberties Alliance". Ha!

I also noticed this:

sioe.wordpress.com is no longer available.

The authors have deleted this blog.

12 zora  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:15:45am

[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

“This rhetoric,” he added, “is not cost-free.”

One of the folks pointing out this free flowing exchange of Transatlantic racist bile is Charles Johnston over at Little Green Footballs. It is interesting to watch as he documents the links of wingnut hate rhetoric to these murders and his back and forth with dim-bulbs like Geller. It is fair that he pulls this duty as the killer’s manifesto contained a link to an old post of his in a footnote. And even though he decided to get off the wingnut crazy train a couple of years ago, his old posts give him plenty of reasons to take up this fight and the tools to leave a mark when he lands a punch. His rejection of wingnut magical thinking has made him a prime target of the rage of folks like Geller who are super pissed that anybody would notice the call to violence implicit in their body of work. As a deflection Geller pretends that Johnson’s minor link as one footnote among many is far worst than the killer’s specific praise for her work, and Spencer’s and their fellow merchants of hate. It’s not, but logic and honesty have never been wingnut virtues.

13 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:16:24am

re: #11 wrenchwench

Throwing in the word 'vigilantism' implies Breivik is 'one who decides to stop crime or punish criminals independently of the law', when in fact he murdered innocents. (That's from Spencer's post titled "The blame game".)

Well of course he was a vigilante. Only Muslims can be terrorists, don'tcha know. At least that's what Geller and Spencer keep saying.

14 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:18:10am

Well, I've reached the bottom of this and the previous thread and I have to do some dog/house duty.

bbiab.

15 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:18:19am

re: #13 Lidane

Well of course he was a vigilante. Only Muslims can be terrorists, don'tcha know. At least that's what Geller and Spencer keep saying.

Which means "His cause was just, just his methods sucked."

16 Mark Winter  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:19:12am

Geller & Co were as much fertilizers as the fertilizer actually used for the bombing.

17 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:21:04am

re: #15 wrenchwench

Which means "His cause was just, just his methods sucked."

EXACTLY. They're not pissed at him for attacking. They're just pissed at him for going after other Norwegians.

If he'd gone after a mosque, they wouldn't be outraged. They'd be cheering him on.

18 allegro  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:22:44am

re: #11 wrenchwench

I found this remark by Spencer to be revealing:

Throwing in the word 'vigilantism' implies Breivik is 'one who decides to stop crime or punish criminals independently of the law', when in fact he murdered innocents. (That's from Spencer's post titled "The blame game".)

I was going to point out the irony of his link to "The Center for Vigilant Freedom", but I discovered they have changed their name to the "International Civil Liberties Alliance". Ha!

I also noticed this:

Outstanding observation.

19 SpaceJesus  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:25:11am

In Jones v. Alfred H. Mayer Co, the Supremes held that Congress has the power to regulate private conduct under the 13th Amendment so long as that conduct is a "badge of incident" of slavery.

Was hate speech a badge or incident of slavery? You bet your ass. Slave holders used hate speech all the time to justify holding blacks in bondage, therefore it is clearly a badge and incident of slavery. We can constitutionally outlaw this filth, and we should.

20 Kragar  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:26:49am

Pam was trying to blame the whole thing on Charles last night:


The killer speaks about Charles Johnson obsessively and wrings his hands about Johnson's turn to the left. Could this perhaps have been the provocation? Could this have been what caused him to snap?
21 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:27:32am

Fjordy sez....

I’m a normal human being and did not particularly enjoy this. The second-most extreme thing I have done this weekend is watching an old movie, drinking Pinot noir red wine from New Zealand and reading a book about medieval history. This happens to be the most extreme thing I do on any average weekend.
22 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:28:21am

Will right wing blogs now stop linking them?
It's something to watch for over the next few weeks, will any disavow or disown them?

23 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:28:41am

Another item I found when I was rooting around this morning is this quotation from Baron Bodissey:

In 2007 it seemed that only the Danes were truly alert to the necessity for pushback against Islam. No other country seemed to come close to Denmark.

However, there have been major encouraging developments in the meantime. I’ll just list a few off the top of my head:

[...]

7. Fremskrittspartiet.The anti-immigration Progress Party in Norway has emerged as a real player and gained considerable public support. In the most recent elections, the decline of the traditional right and the strength of the communists prevented Fremskrittspartiet from gaining decisive influence, but it will definitely be a player in the future.

Here's the rest of the list, without the descriptions:

1. Geert Wilders and the PVV

2. The emergence of the English Defence League

3. Sverigedemokraterna

4. The Lega Nord

5. The SVP

6. Pro-Köln

8. Perussuomalaiset

9. The emergence of a popular French resistance

10. The burqa bans

That's from The Love Blog, on Wednesday, June 16, 2010.

I wasn't looking for that, I was just looking for a link to the CVF. The hate is lying around like sand in the desert.

24 Obdicut  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:28:58am

re: #21 Killgore Trout

Except for writing shittons of hate screeds about Muslims and the need to homogenize Europe, of course.

Or maybe he only does that during the weekdays.

25 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:29:21am

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pam was trying to blame the whole thing on Charles last night:

I love how Charles breaking with Geller and her merry band of "counter-jihadi" idiots is somehow to blame for this guy snapping, as opposed to years of exposure to fanatical anti-Muslim ranting.

Just how stupid is she?

26 ProMayaLiberal  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:29:27am

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #21 Killgore Trout

They are trying to spin their way out of this.

It won't work. And they at least partially know it considering that SIOE Blog is now down.

27 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:29:53am

re: #22 Thanos

Will right wing blogs now stop linking them?
It's something to watch for over the next few weeks, will any disavow or disown them?

Watch for lots of de-linking, name changing, and re-linking.

28 ProMayaLiberal  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:30:46am

re: #25 Lidane

She may be stupid, but this isn't. She's attempting to save herself.

At some point, I expect these clowns to start pointing the fingers at each other.

29 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:30:50am

re: #23 wrenchwench

That's from The Love Blog, on Wednesday, June 16, 2010.

I wasn't looking for that, I was just looking for a link to the CVF. The hate is lying around like sand in the desert.

Hates of Vienna.

30 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:31:47am

re: #27 wrenchwench

Watch for lots of de-linking, name changing, and re-linking.

And flat-out deleting.

31 Kragar  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:32:14am

Anti-Muslim Bloggers Say They Are The Real Victims of Norway Attacks


As we learn more about the right-wing terrorist in Norway whose deadly attacks left over ninety people dead, the anti-Muslim blog FrontPageMag led by conservative activist David Horowitz is arguing that the real victims of the attacks are…anti-Muslim bloggers.

Anders Behring Breivik routinely frequented popular anti-Muslim blogs and cited American and European anti-Muslim figures in his “manifesto” against progressives, minorities and “cultural Marxism.”

Mark Tapson of FrontPageMag claims that Breivik’s actions did great damage to the cause of “Christian conservatives and critics of Jihad,” insisting that the progressive movement can’t “contain its collective glee” about the shooter’s far-right views:

32 Bulworth  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:32:25am
Pam was trying to blame the whole thing on Charles last night:

[Gellar] The killer speaks about Charles Johnson obsessively and wrings his hands about Johnson's turn to the left. Could this perhaps have been the provocation? Could this have been what caused him to snap?

Well, that and the Islamofacististicmarxists. //

33 Gus  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:33:01am

re: #10 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yea, tbh I would not trade them for any country's speech laws. But dang, when the KKK can threaten "revengeance" the Jews, n-s and our supporters into the public square and that's not incitement, just dang.

US vs. Bill White. His conviction was overturned just this year on 1st Amendment grounds. See here and here.

Caveat here is that his rhetoric didn't lead to an actual crime of murder in this case. Now if one were to see Fjordman, Geller, Spencer, et al as being engaged in incitement that incitement could have only been interpreted as calling for violence against Muslims alone -- when in fact Breivik committed violence against non-Muslims.

It would seem as though Breivik would have had to commit violence against Muslims to have a case. You would then have to prove that the aforementioned bloggers incited violence against Muslims. They did not call for violence against non-Muslims as Breivik perpetrated in the end.

34 makeitstop  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:33:19am

re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Pam was trying to blame the whole thing on Charles last night:

Again with the red herring about 'snapping.'

This guy did not 'snap.' He meticulously planned every aspect of this atrocity.

He was not imbalanced. He was completely in control.

Geller remains a liar, and she's doubling down because people are noticing that she is driving this rage.

35 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:33:37am

chickens....home....roosting.

36 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:35:05am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anti-Muslim Bloggers Say They Are The Real Victims of Norway Attacks

Fuck those people sideways with a 2x4.

The victims of this attack are the people who died. It's the Norwegian people who are having to deal with this sort of hate and extremism in their midst. It's not a bunch of self-important bloggers safely ranting and inciting hatred of Muslims and immigrants from their cushy homes and apartments.

37 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:35:14am

There is no lre: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There is no "glee" at this fellow's anti-jihad views, just a very sober realization of what these people are about.

38 garhighway  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:36:21am

Afternoon, all.

Interesting, even NYT right-wing apologist Ross Douthat gets it:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Sample:

But it’s fair to call Breivik a right-winger. As Commentary Magazine editor John Podhoretz put it, the Norwegian killer is “exactly the kind of psychotic ideologue of the right so many in this country instantly assumed Jared Loughner, the schizophrenic who shot Rep. Gabrielle Giffords” to be. His compendium quotes repeatedly from conservative writers on both sides of the Atlantic, and it’s filled with attacks on familiar right-wing targets: Secularism and political correctness; the European Union and the sexual revolution; radical Islam and the academic left.

Indeed, stripped of their context, some of his critiques of multiculturalism and immigration resemble arguments that have been advanced, not just by Europe’s far-right parties, but by mainstream conservative leaders such as David Cameron in Britain, Angela Merkel in Germany and Nicolas Sarkozy in France.

39 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:36:55am

re: #34 makeitstop

This guy did not 'snap.' He meticulously planned every aspect of this atrocity.

But Charles Johnson kicked all the anti-Muslim bigots off his blog and broke with Geller and Spencer! Surely that caused this guy to snap years later!

///

40 Randall Gross  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:37:02am

re: #27 wrenchwench

Watch for lots of de-linking, name changing, and re-linking.

One can only hope, but we might be surprised. They might circle wagons or hope that it fades away. Remember that the real money and support comes mostly from groups that Paul Wayrich spun up.

41 SmithCommaJohn  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:40:31am
“If anyone incited him to violence, it was Islamic supremacists,” she wrote.

I've been seeing this line of "reasoning" elsewhere.

It just boils down to arguing that Muslims are to blame for this attack because they dared to exist.

42 Gus  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:41:46am

Here he is...

Image: x999.jpg

Norwegian Anders Behring Breivik, the man accused of a killing spree and bomb attack in Norway, sits in the rear of a vehicle as he is transported in a police convoy as he is leaving the courthouse in Oslo July 25, 2011. A judge ordered eight weeks detention on Monday for Breivik who has admitted a bombing and shooting massacre that killed about 90 people and who claimed in court to have two more groups of collaborators. Custody, in line with prosecutors' request, will allow them to investigate the case against Breivik, 32, an anti-Islamic zealot who has previously claimed sole responsibility for Friday's attacks. The custody can be extended.

43 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:42:07am

re: #38 garhighway

Afternoon, all.

Interesting, even NYT right-wing apologist Ross Douthat gets it:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Cue the right wing blogs calling Douthat a liberal RINO plant in 3...2...1...

44 S'latch  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:42:38am

The charge against Breivic of terrorist crimes is an offense that bears a maximum prison sentence of 21 years under Norwegian law, though it can be extended if the convict is deemed a threat to society.

45 Gus  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:42:41am

re: #42 Gus 802

Here he is...

Image: x999.jpg

Messed up the second link...

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

46 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:43:40am

re: #44 Lawrence Schmerel

The charge against Breivic of terrorist crimes is an offense that bears a maximum prison sentence of 21 years under Norwegian law, though it can be extended if the convict is deemed a threat to society.

Given the anger in Norway towards him, it might be extended just to prevent someone else from killing him. I can easily see him spending the rest of his life in jail.

47 S'latch  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:44:51am

re: #46 Lidane

I agree. Also, he would clearly be deemed a threat to society.

48 Lidane  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:46:07am

re: #47 Lawrence Schmerel

I agree. Also, he would clearly be deemed a threat to society.

Killing dozens of innocent kids at a summer camp tends to give that impression.

He's not getting out of prison. Ever. I don't care what the maximum sentence in Norway is.

49 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:47:08am

re: #33 Gus 802

US vs. Bill White. His conviction was overturned just this year on 1st Amendment grounds. See here and here.

I remember that weasel getting out and re-forming some stupid NSM88. I do agree with the ACLU on that one, but because of Brandenburg and the reason you state below.

Caveat here is that his rhetoric didn't lead to an actual crime of murder in this case. Now if one were to see Fjordman, Geller, Spencer, et al as being engaged in incitement that incitement could have only been interpreted as calling for violence against Muslims alone -- when in fact Breivik committed violence against non-Muslims.

It would seem as though Breivik would have had to commit violence against Muslims to have a case. You would then have to prove that the aforementioned bloggers incited violence against Muslims. They did not call for violence against non-Muslims as Breivik perpetrated in the end.

I agree, though for different reasons. I had said on Sat. that an incitement case against Geller/Spencer, etc would never, ever fly, not with our laws. So anyone thinking about it can just forget it.

The issue would be less of who the violence is directed towards and who got hurt, than whether there is an imminent threat. Imminent threat is impossible to prove with internet posts unless everybody at some bigot rally got a text and went out and hurt one of their targets, or something of the sort.

They have landed their asses in the sling for that, because they never learn...no you do NOT rule, no you can NOT treat anyone you please in any contemptible manner you wish.

Sux to be them, boohoo.

50 allegro  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 10:48:08am

re: #31 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anti-Muslim Bloggers Say They Are The Real Victims of Norway Attacks

Mark Tapson of FrontPageMag claims that Breivik’s actions did great damage to the cause of “Christian conservatives and critics of Jihad,” insisting that the progressive movement can’t “contain its collective glee” about the shooter’s far-right views:

Only fucktards with projection issues would see the response to this horror as "glee" and worry more about their reputations than the families of those whose CHILDREN were gunned down at summer camp.

51 Olsonist  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 11:00:13am

re: #3 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OhCrap, I just read your post about SP and incitement. Yes, you are right; she isn't going to get indicted for incitement nor is the excrable Geller. That's a legalistic fact.

But whether Geller and Palin bear responsibility is another issue altogether. Whether Geller can ever appear at CPAC again without an honorable Republican getting up in her face or whether she will just interview John Bolton for her website is important. Whether Fox News fires her is important.

But it won't happen. Does anyone hold the Right Wing responsible for Loughner? Not really. For McVeigh? No. The Right Wing will silently close its ranks. Cut to Sarah Palin.

52 wrenchwench  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 11:12:27am

David Horowitz:

The New York Times today has a wretched editorial masquerading as a news story on Robert Spencer and his alleged complicity in the Oslo massacres because his ideas are cited by the lunatic responsible.

[...]

The attack on Robert Spencer, a man of great courage and decency, is just one phase in the war against all those who speak out against Islamic terror and Islamic imperialism. The Times attack is but the latest and most repulsive salvo in this war.

Pushing the "Breivik is a lunatic" meme is necessary to the defense of Spencer.

53 Kragar  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 11:19:52am

re: #52 wrenchwench

David Horowitz:

Pushing the "Breivik is a lunatic" meme is necessary to the defense of Spencer.

All white guy terrorists are lunatics who just snapped.
a single Muslim terrorist is every Muslim on earth.

Get your memes straight.

54 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 11:20:45am

re: #51 Olsonist

OhCrap, I just read your post about SP and incitement. Yes, you are right; she isn't going to get indicted for incitement nor is the excrable Geller. That's a legalistic fact.

But whether Geller and Palin bear responsibility is another issue altogether. Whether Geller can ever appear at CPAC again without an honorable Republican getting up in her face or whether she will just interview John Bolton for her website is important. Whether Fox News fires her is important.

But it won't happen. Does anyone hold the Right Wing responsible for Loughner? Not really. For McVeigh? No. The Right Wing will silently close its ranks. Cut to Sarah Palin.

Difference is, there is a direct line that Breivik Race-Butthurt Bigot has drawn himself, from Spencer/Geller/Hates of Vienna to his actions. With Palin/Loughner, it's flimsy to non-existent. (And these days, it doesn't even matter anymore, since Palin is basically out of the news.)

Meanwhile -- you're right, outside the realm of abstract legalism -- mainstream rw conventional wisdom is already casting ABB as hapless victims of the gubbernminnt, no different from his own views and actions. They did the same with Palin, Loughner, etc, and they will do so with the next batch of bigots.

They've been pulling the same "poor me I'm a hapless government-oppressed states rights conservative" act for generations. Why would they stop, now?

55 yoshicastmaster  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 12:35:18pm

you prob know this but youre in slate: [Link: www.slate.com...]

back to bar studying... :-(

56 JEA62  Mon, Jul 25, 2011 12:49:14pm

That would imply they have consciences...


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