Jon Stewart: In the Name of the Fodder
The Fox News rapid response team
Humor • Views: 53,844
673 comments
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Dante41 Fri, Jul 29, 2011 10:59:15pm |
But all Muslims can still be held accountable for the actions of an extremist minority, right Fox? Good to hear.
| 3 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Jul 29, 2011 10:59:26pm |
If Fox News really wanted to shut down John Stewart, all they would have to do is close up shop and quit giving him and his writers such great comedic fodder.
| 5 |
Dante41 Fri, Jul 29, 2011 11:05:09pm |
...and the award for "Stating the Obvious" goes to...me.
| 6 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 29, 2011 11:07:20pm |
| 7 |
Digital Display Fri, Jul 29, 2011 11:10:11pm |
re: #6 Dark_Falcon
Yes, it was.
What's up? I love this compressed NFL free agency.. It's hard to keep up with who is going where.. They should do this every year...It's fast and furious
| 8 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 12:37:33am |
I looked through the names released thus far by Norway.
I am descended of a Johansen family in Norway. A Ronja Soettar Johansen is among the dead. In a country of just 5 million, this can be worrisome.
Also among the dead, 3 Muslims. And Samson with his pages is beginning to tick me off. He seems to be delighting in bashing Norway.
| 10 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 12:42:35am |
re: #2 Dante41
But all Muslims can still be held accountable for the actions of an extremist minority, right Fox? Good to hear.
Because we are individuals made in the image of the person who originated everything in the universe, we hate the ungodly, satanic, communist idea of group rights. Unless it's rights for our group.
Other people, like you know, Muslims and stuff, they've been eternally cursed by the Lord for their disbelief in His Son™! So how dare anyone suggest that group of people be afforded equal treatment, on par with us individuals! That's not fair!
| 11 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 12:44:36am |
re: #8 ProLifeLiberal
There is a second Johansen in there: Rolf Christopher Johansen Perreau.
I'm beginning to think my family may not have escaped this. Will be talking to Grandfather about this tomorrow.
And the tribute site to one of the victims has this link:
| 12 |
Digital Display Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:05:27am |
After about a month of being spun up by the debt debate...My brain hurts..And really it's the 2 minute warning..So stay tuned lizards
I may have reached this point...
| 13 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:07:27am |
re: #8 ProLifeLiberal
And continuing to look through, I'm noticing them come from all over Norway.
Also, 1 of the Muslims is from Turkey (close ally of Norway) and another is an Iraqi refugee. Two have last names from Muslim areas.
So this guy killed 4 Muslims. And Turkey is going to be massively pissed.
| 14 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:17:48am |
I see the LGF Geller posting was quoted at Hurry up Harry. Good.
| 15 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:22:14am |
There is an idiot commenter there, scroll down to "armaros":
[Link: hurryupharry.org...]
He quotes SB and Gus. What a moron.
| 16 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:25:54am |
re: #1 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Debbie Schussel is a hate filled bitch.
While I agree with the general sentiment, the b-word is inherently wrong, IMHO. It is used because she is a female.
| 17 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:29:54am |
re: #15 Sergey Romanov
There is an idiot commenter there, scroll down to "armaros":
[Link: hurryupharry.org...]
He quotes SB and Gus. What a moron.
His excuse is brilliant:
I don’t think Geller owes an explanation for this. It is logical to do this when large numbers of people are determined to attack you for the act of an evil coward terrorist madman.
| 18 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:33:48am |
re: #16 Sergey Romanov
While I agree with the general sentiment, the b-word is inherently wrong, IMHO. It is used because she is a female.
No, bitch is accurate, and not even strong enough a word for her.
Debbie Schlussel: Slain Norwegian Teens Were ‘Hateful, Privileged Brats’
| 19 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:34:42am |
re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, bitch is accurate, and not even strong enough a word for her.
Debbie Schlussel: Slain Norwegian Teens Were ‘Hateful, Privileged Brats’
It's sexist, Kragar.
| 20 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:39:09am |
re: #19 Sergey Romanov
It's sexist, Kragar.
Asshole, douchebag, and shithead just don't have the same ring though.
| 21 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:50:35am |
re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Asshole, douchebag, and shithead just don't have the same ring though.
I know, but maybe exactly because they don't have the added ... element.
How about: Shitstain on humanity? Debbie Goebbels?
| 22 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:54:21am |
re: #21 Sergey Romanov
I know, but maybe exactly because they don't have the added ... element.
How about: Shitstain on humanity? Debbie Goebbels?
We're all slaves to the dictates of the grammatical hegemony forced upon us. I'll stand by my original statement. I was forced to by the ruling elite. They made me do it.
| 24 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 1:57:01am |
| 25 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:02:43am |
The Taling POint (TM) is this:
Jesus forbids killing, therefore anyone committing mass murder in his name is not a True Christian (TM)
But Muhammad demands that his followers conquer and kill, therefore any Muslim who practices his religion quietly and peacefully is not a True Muslim (TM).
That should end all further argument as to who is a terrorist and who is a deranged loner nutbag.
/
| 26 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:02:59am |
Viva la multi-culti! Mehndi Party with Western women who appear to be—*gasp*—enjoying themselves, traitors that they are. (I couldn't embed it; you have to watch it on YouTube.)
*waves @ Sergey*
| 27 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:04:48am |
re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, bitch is accurate, and not even strong enough a word for her.
Debbie Schlussel: Slain Norwegian Teens Were ‘Hateful, Privileged Brats’
Well it IS insulting to female dogs in this case. /
| 28 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:06:36am |
re: #26 CuriousLurker
Viva la multi-culti! Mehndi Party with Western women who appear to be—*gasp*—enjoying themselves, traitors that they are. (I couldn't embed it; you have to watch it on YouTube.)
*waves @ Sergey*
OH NO! I ALMOST FELT MY ARYAN COOTIES LEAVING MY BODY UPON SEEING THIS ABOMINATION!
Very cool, CL.
| 30 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:07:42am |
| 31 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:08:47am |
re: #20 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Asshole, douchebag, and shithead just don't have the same ring though.
It doesn't have the same ring because she's female, though.
| 32 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:12:24am |
re: #21 Sergey Romanov
I know, but maybe exactly because they don't have the added ... element.
How about: Shitstain on humanity? Debbie Goebbels?
I once called her Sw&stika Girl on my blog. But I did stop doing it because it's just not right. No matter how far right off the cliff someone goes, it's wrong to put N#zi terminology on Jewish people, period. At least in my book.
So... dumb, stupid, ignorant conservative-supremacist, hair-on-fire bigot will suffice for me lol
| 33 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:13:05am |
There was one big error in calling him "fundamentalist", but he clearly identified himself with Christianity.
| 34 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:15:52am |
re: #33 ralphieboy
There was one big error in calling him "fundamentalist", but he clearly identified himself with Christianity.
I think "conservative Christian-supremacist" works. An LGF conservative downdinged me for it, but I don't care, because I think it's the most accurate without targeting the wrong people.
| 35 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:16:05am |
re: #32 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Nobody puts it on "Jewish people". And it's not wrong to put it on individuals who deserve it regardless of their ethnicity.
| 36 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:20:32am |
| 37 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:20:48am |
The other spin in it is that there are people who "delight" in seeing him branded a Christian.
Nobody is delighted in anything to do with this massacre, they are just feeling somewhat vindicated in their assertion that there can be a link between this sort of thinking and acts of depraved violence.
| 38 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:21:16am |
re: #35 Sergey Romanov
Nobody puts it on "Jewish people".
Not so.
And it's not wrong to put it on individuals who deserve it regardless of their ethnicity.
I disagree. Debbie Schlussel doesn't need to be compared to Goebbels, especially as the daughter of a Holocaust survivor. Goebbels is Goebbels.
Schlussel is Schlussel. She, Geller, Spencer, Hates of Vienna, and their minions are definitely fascists, though not Third Reich. They should be viewed in terms of American rwnj fascism, because that's their context, no matter how many times Debbie Schlussel trots out her father's memory.
She's just another dumb American conservative bigot.
Afaic, calling her "Goebbels" is on the same level as calling Israel "apartheid". Needless, and ahistorical.
| 39 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:21:27am |
re: #35 Sergey Romanov
Really, her article is so beyond the pale I don't know what to call her. Insulting the dead. Comparing them to inhuman, evil beings. Saying that they deserved to die and she feels no sympathy for them.
It's not a surprise, given that her response to Osama Bin Laden's death was to openly hope for the death of every Muslim man, woman, and child in the entire world.
Genocidal freak.
| 40 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:22:46am |
Advocating genocide does put one in the same ball park as the Nazis...
| 41 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:22:48am |
| 42 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:24:15am |
| 43 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:24:57am |
re: #38 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
No, calling her Goebbels is an insult. Those idiots who call Israel an apartheid pretend to be stating facts. No analogy whatsoever. So, yes, it is fine to call her Debbie Goebbels, or to call Kahane a Nazi, etc.
| 44 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:25:41am |
| 45 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:26:52am |
re: #42 000G
Expanding on that: There was no Jewish Liberation Army that collaborated with the Nazis. There was no Palestine Autonomy for collaborating Jews set up by the Nazis. And even though myriads of Soviet POWs died in German Stalags et al, the german genocide waged against the Jews was quite of a different nature than the overarching war of extermination against the Soviet Union as a whole…
| 46 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:27:25am |
re: #41 Sergey Romanov
Nobody here, obviously.
---
This argument is bogus anyway. Nazis killed millions of Russians. Does that mean no Russian can be compared to a Nazi, or called a neo-Nazi? Pfft.
There are self-identified Russian neo-Nazis, as well as Serbian neo-Nazis.
Even though their forebears were slaughtered by *acutal* Nazis. I think it's STUPID but I don't have a dog in that fight.
And as you suggest, I try going over there to celebrate Pascha, see what happens to my ass, anyway.
Schlussel is American rwnj. So is Spencer/Geller/Herman Cain and the rest of the anti-Muslim rabblerousers. We already have a LONG history of murderous, genocidal, eliminationist xenophobia here, that doesn't need comparing to any other xenophobic, hate-based bunch of bigots.
| 47 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:27:41am |
re: #45 000G
Sure, though none of that refutes my point.
| 48 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:28:31am |
re: #46 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Nobody says it _needs_ such a comparison. It is, however, a legitimate insult.
| 49 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:29:04am |
re: #47 Sergey Romanov
Sure, though none of that refutes my point.
Your point is predicated on the assumed premise that there is no meaningful difference between Russians and Jews in the context of WW2 and persecution by Germans. I challenge that point.
| 50 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:31:27am |
re: #43 Sergey Romanov
No, calling her Goebbels is an insult. Those idiots who call Israel an apartheid pretend to be stating facts. No analogy whatsoever. So, yes, it is fine to call her Debbie Goebbels, or to call Kahane a Nazi, etc.
Do it if you want, defend it if you want, I'm just telling you why I think the Godwin card is inaccurate and not right. To me it's the same -- draw on some heinous history to smear your opponents, facutal, insulting, or not.
Everything is a Holocaust, now.
Everybody one doesn't like is Hitler/Goebbels/Nazis/apartheid, now.
Everyone who does something extraordinary is Rosa Parks or MLK or on a freedom ride, now. No, I think not.
| 51 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:31:34am |
re: #49 000G
Um, no, my point is predicated on the premise that Nazis murdered millions of Russians and had genocidal plans for them (plan Ost), and yet there's nothing wrong with individual Nazi comparisons.
| 52 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:32:18am |
re: #49 000G
Further: You cannot be a Nazi and not in principle agree with genocide against Jews (although you might disagree on methods and degrees of harshness etc). But you can be a Nazi and disagree in principle with genocide against Russians. Nazism was essentially anti-semitic, only accidentally anti-slavic.
| 53 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:33:13am |
re: #52 000G
Nazis were not for wiping out the Slavs, just enslaving them.
Big difference there, eh?
| 54 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:33:19am |
re: #51 Sergey Romanov
Um, no, my point is predicated on the premise that Nazis murdered millions of Russians and had genocidal plans for them (plan Ost), and yet there's nothing wrong with individual Nazi comparisons.
Plan Ost was a strategical plan as part of WW2. The Holocaust was just a logical conclusion of things that already written down in the 25 points party program of 1920.
| 55 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:34:29am |
re: #50 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Sorry, that's exaggerating a bit, though I know what you're talking about. As an insult it works OK. Nobody proposes that in serious analysis (again, as purported by anti-Israel activists, for example) such comparisons should be used.
| 56 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:34:52am |
re: #53 ralphieboy
Nazis were not for wiping out the Slavs, just enslaving them.
Big difference there, eh?
No, just for wiping out most of them, and sending the rest over Urals.
| 57 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:35:32am |
re: #48 Sergey Romanov
Nobody says it _needs_ such a comparison. It is, however, a legitimate insult.
She's more on the level of Father Coughlin who is fading into obscurity because other loudmouths have eclipsed her.
But hey you're right, nobody knows who those are, so it won't have the desired impact. So let's just call her Goebbels and be done with it lol
| 58 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:36:16am |
re: #53 ralphieboy
AFAIK, the Nazi plan for the Soviets was to "only" wipe out two thirds of them (one by direct killings, one by extermination through slave labor, enslave another third). While that would have been much, much more than all of the Jews of Europe in absolute numbers, it's still relatively less than how many of the Jews they wanted wiped out (all of them).
| 59 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:37:12am |
| 60 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:37:23am |
re: #57 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Um, she's actually literally desiring the genocide of Muslims.
This isn't like somebody who's banning books being called a Nazi. She actually wants the US to kill every Muslim in the world.
This isn't a casual use of the Nazi analogy.
| 61 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:38:14am |
re: #59 ralphieboy
All balances out as one Jew counts for at least three Slavs.
/
The definitions for genocide are predicated on relative terms, not absolute numbers.
| 62 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:38:59am |
re: #60 Obdicut
She actually wants the US to kill every Muslim in the world.
Link, just for reference?
| 63 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:41:06am |
re: #54 000G
Plan Ost was a strategical plan as part of WW2. The Holocaust was just a logical conclusion of things that already written down in the 25 points party program of 1920.
Strictly speaking, that is not historically true. If not for WWII contingencies, the Holocaust as we know it might have been avoided (it still would have happened, just on another scale and against select groups, e.g. Soviet Jews) - the plans for deportations to the Soviet territory were quite literal at first, and the plans for extermination of all Jews (and not only the Soviet ones) crystallized between October and December of 1941.
Anyhow, I don't see the relevance of the differences you're trying to point out. I will be the first to say there were differences. The main point stays: the Nazis exterminated millions of Russians, many of them - just because they were Russians (cf. the Untermensch brochure as well as plan Ost). Russians were victims of Nazis, and to say that the difference between treatment of Russians and Jews by the Nazis somehow influences how individuals of each group may not be called is illogical.
| 64 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:42:11am |
re: #61 000G
The definitions for genocide are predicated on relative terms, not absolute numbers.
Since genocide does include "part of" clause, 2/3 is as much a genocide as 100%.
| 65 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:43:12am |
re: #55 Sergey Romanov
Sorry, that's exaggerating a bit, though I know what you're talking about. As an insult it works OK. Nobody proposes that in serious analysis (again, as purported by anti-Israel activists, for example) such comparisons should be used.
They work, to what end?
It's not exaggerating, especially since you do appear to understand why labeling her a "bitch" is out of bounds.
I happen to understand why calling her a bitch and goebbels are both on the same level. You don't have to agree with me, that's ok. Take it from someone routinely labeled (including on these pages) an "asshole", myself, lol. If they perceieved me as a heterosexual woman, we already know the epithet chain that would be employed.
None of them would work, btw.
| 66 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:44:35am |
re: #62 000G
Link, just for reference?
When Osama Bin Laden died, she said "One down, 1.8 billion to go."
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.
The full quote:
Rot In Hell, Osama Bin Laden. One down, 1.8 billion to go. . . many of ‘em inside U.S. borders, with the U.S. government at all levels kissing their asses
| 67 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:45:34am |
re: #65 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Bitch is predicated on her being a female.
Nazi is predicated on her being someone who advocates genocide.
Rather a large difference there.
| 68 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:45:36am |
re: #63 Sergey Romanov
Strictly speaking, that is not historically true. If not for WWII contingencies, the Holocaust as we know it might have been avoided (it still would have happened, just on another scale and against select groups, e.g. Soviet Jews) - the plans for deportations to the Soviet territory were quite literal at first, and the plans for extermination of all Jews (and not only the Soviet ones) crystallized between October and December of 1941.
How is it not historically true? The Party program of 1920 already said that no Jew could be a German. It's logical what follows from that. "If not for WWII contingencies, the Holocaust as we know it might have been avoided" is a Pat Buchanan argument.
Anyhow, I don't see the relevance of the differences you're trying to point out. I will be the first to say there were differences. The main point stays: the Nazis exterminated millions of Russians, many of them - just because they were Russians (cf. the Untermensch brochure as well as plan Ost). Russians were victims of Nazis, and to say that the difference between treatment of Russians and Jews by the Nazis somehow influences how individuals of each group may not be called is illogical.
The difference is that Nazis always wanted to get rid of all Jews within their sphere of influence, and they only wanted to get rid of most (not all) Russians when they decided on their strategies for Plan Barbarossa, and that remained a strategic element of their war efforts, unlike the Holocaust which was continuted to be perpetraed despite war efforts (often hindering them due to blocking transportation capacities, as you know).
| 69 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:46:53am |
re: #64 Sergey Romanov
Since genocide does include "part of" clause, 2/3 is as much a genocide as 100%.
It is also genocide. But the "as much" qualification does not make any sense.
| 70 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:46:58am |
Can we get back to debating AGW now? We are in a full Nazi-genocide tailspin mode here.
| 71 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:47:11am |
re: #66 Obdicut
When Osama Bin Laden died, she said "One down, 1.8 billion to go."
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.
The full quote:
I was hoping for something more explicit. Thanks, though.
| 72 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:47:24am |
re: #60 Obdicut
Um, she's actually literally desiring the genocide of Muslims.
This isn't like somebody who's banning books being called a Nazi. She actually wants the US to kill every Muslim in the world.
This isn't a casual use of the Nazi analogy.
I'm not defending any of Debbie Schlussel's views. Lol how counterintuitive would that be?
I'm only saying we have PLENTY of examples of genocidal behavior right here in the USA. We don't need to run to the Third Reich for scary names that conjure up certain emotions.
Because really, that's what the issue is about. Don't get on me for it, I was not the one scolding others for calling her a "bitch", but that's what launched the conversation.
If we should think twice about calling her a bitch, we should also think twice about wielding Nazi imagery against a Jew, since both really only serve emotional ends.
| 73 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:47:43am |
re: #71 000G
I was hoping for something more explicit. Thanks, though.
How is that not explicit, please?
| 74 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:48:05am |
re: #65 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
The difference is, you can call anyone a "Goebbels" in appropriate circumstances, and only a woman a "bitch". (Yeah, yeah, I know that the b-word is now often used jokingly between males, etc. - I mean as a true insult). Again, I will refer to the way many in Russia call "Nashi" youth movement as well as other associated Putinist groups - Putinjugend. And I'm on board with that. Because the way they behave is very reminiscent of Hitlerjugend. I don't care that they seem not to have killed anyone yet.
(By googling I see that people in the West are also not averse to this moniker.)
| 75 |
Digital Display Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:48:26am |
re: #66 Obdicut
When Osama Bin Laden died, she said "One down, 1.8 billion to go."
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.
The full quote:
Obdi..Up all night on Friday....I'm never up this early..And I'm practicing a Karaoke song
I'm ate up *wink*
| 76 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:49:26am |
re: #68 000G
I suggest you read something on the origin of the Final Solution before labeling historical facts "Pat Buchanan arguments".
| 77 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:49:33am |
re: #72 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I'm only saying we have PLENTY of examples of genocidal behavior right here in the USA. We don't need to run to the Third Reich for scary names that conjure up certain emotions.
Sure. You don't need to. So what?
If we should think twice about calling her a bitch, we should also think twice about wielding Nazi imagery against a Jew, since both really only serve emotional ends.
No, I'm sorry, that's not true. Nazi imagery calls to mind genocide, which is something she supports. Others may support genocide, but there's no one more famous for genocide than the Nazis.
I'm not calling her a Nazi, partially because it makes people start knee-jerk responding like this, but there is no comparison between why it's improper to call her a bitch.
| 78 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:49:44am |
re: #73 Obdicut
How is that not explicit, please?
The reader still has to draw his or her own conclusions. It's true that there are no other possible meaningful conclusions than that she wants all muslims killed (not neccessarily by the U.S., though, that could be left open). But she does not say it outright.
| 79 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:49:49am |
re: #67 Obdicut
Bitch is predicated on her being a female.
Nazi is predicated on her being someone who advocates genocide.
Rather a large difference there.
Andrew Jackson also advocated genocide and is much closer to home.
But it doesn't have the same emotional heft. I get it, I really do.
The same logic is what the crankodoodle left employs to smear Israel as "Apartheid", truth be damned about actual Apartheid.
| 80 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:50:23am |
re: #69 000G
It is also genocide. But the "as much" qualification does not make any sense.
It's either a genocide or it isn't.
| 81 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:50:27am |
re: #76 Sergey Romanov
I suggest you read something on the origin of the Final Solution before labeling historical facts "Pat Buchanan arguments".
Oh, I have.
| 82 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:50:53am |
re: #80 Sergey Romanov
It's either a genocide or it isn't.
That's a qualification. "As much" is a quantification.
| 83 |
CuriousLurker Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:51:13am |
re: #66 Obdicut
When Osama Bin Laden died, she said "One down, 1.8 billion to go."
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.
The full quote:
Wow, I hadn't heard about that one. Just Googled it and saw it for myself. Sounds pretty clear to me even though she tried to say that's not what she was saying.
| 84 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:51:40am |
re: #68 000G
How is it not historically true? The Party program of 1920 already said that no Jew could be a German. It's logical what follows from that. "If not for WWII contingencies, the Holocaust as we know it might have been avoided" is a Pat Buchanan argument.
Yes, it's logical what follows from that: They wanted no Jews to have German citizenship. That is completely consistent with exiling the German Jews as a labor force to the conquered Russian territories after killing those they deemed 'dangerous'.
| 85 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:52:38am |
re: #77 Obdicut
Sure. You don't need to. So what?
And others do.
And??
Others may support genocide, but there's no one more famous for genocide than the Nazis.
Well now you're making my argument for me. No one dispute the emotional significance of attaching the word "Nazi" to one's opponents.
The BDS movement tried it against Israel, and failed. So now they're on to Apartheid.
Maybe in another few years we can start calling Debbie Schlussel "Pieter Botha"...oh wait, not the same emotional significance.
Hm, gee, I give up. ///
| 86 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:52:55am |
re: #79 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Andrew Jackson also advocated genocide and is much closer to home.
But almost nobody knows that.
But it doesn't have the same emotional heft. I get it, I really do.
No, you don't. It's getting a little annoying that you're claiming I'm lying when talking to you. Why do you think that?
The same logic is what the crankodoodle left employs to smear Israel as "Apartheid", truth be damned about actual Apartheid.
Again, how so? Israel is not apartheid. That's why calling Israel apartheid is wrong. It's a completely inaccurate description.
| 87 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:53:33am |
re: #81 000G
Oh, I have.
They you wouldn't have labeled the historical fact that the Holocaust as we know it wasn't a necessary continuation of the Nazi policy as a "Pat Buchanan argument".
| 88 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:53:37am |
re: #85 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Well now you're making my argument for me. No one dispute the emotional significance of attaching the word "Nazi" to one's opponents.
Why do you keep calling it 'emotional' significance?
| 89 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:54:00am |
re: #84 Obdicut
Yes, it's logical what follows from that: They wanted no Jews to have German citizenship. That is completely consistent with exiling the German Jews as a labor force to the conquered Russian territories after killing those they deemed 'dangerous'.
I am not sure whether we actually disagree here: I am saying that the plans for deportation or extermination of all Jews within German reach were already inherent in Nazi essentials in 1920. They were not just brought about by logistical difficulties that have come up between 1939 and 1941.
Is this a functionalists versus intentionalists kind of squabble?
| 90 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:54:12am |
re: #82 000G
That's a qualification. "As much" is a quantification.
No, as much means it would have been just as a genocide as any others.
| 91 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:54:37am |
re: #89 000G
I am not sure whether we actually disagree here: I am saying that the plans for deportation or extermination of all Jews within German reach were already inherent in Nazi essentials in 1920.
And that's what Sergey is saying too. Which you labeled as Pat Buchanan level rhetoric. Why?
| 92 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:55:09am |
| 93 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:56:46am |
re: #92 000G
Uh, no. See #87.
So are you saying that the Holocaust as we know it was a _necessary_, rather than a probable consequence of the earlier Nazi policy? Name recent historians who agree with this view.
| 94 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:56:56am |
re: #90 Sergey Romanov
No, as much means it would have been just as a genocide as any others.
It can mean that but "as much" is also a quantifier and there were other choices of words available for simple semantical equivalence. Oh well…
| 95 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:57:33am |
re: #92 000G
Uh, no. See #87.
Yes. I see it. I think you're not actually understanding what Sergey is saying, and being extremely quick to amazingly offensively label what he's saying as equivalent to Pat Buchanan. Seriously, you're calling someone who spends his time fighting against holocaust denial a holocaust denier. Why?
| 96 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:57:37am |
re: #94 000G
A genocide is a genocide. I don't see why you're trying to split hairs here.
| 97 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:57:37am |
re: #86 Obdicut
But almost nobody knows that.
Oh, I understand the argument, don't get me wrong.
Tar her with the label everybody knows about. Even though 1- Anders Breivik took everything he knows from American fascists, 2- the US rightwing, including Debbie Schlussel, is exporting their particular brand of xenophobia, which is homegrown right here in the US.
No, you don't. It's getting a little annoying that you're claiming I'm lying when talking to you. Why do you think that?
I haven't made that claim. That's an invention on your part.
Again, how so? Israel is not apartheid. That's why calling Israel apartheid is wrong. It's a completely inaccurate description.
Calling Debbie Schlussel "Goebbels" or some other Nazi reference is also inaccurate. She's a homegrown American conservative rwnj bigot. They have a long, long history here.
| 98 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:59:18am |
re: #95 Obdicut
Seriously, you're calling someone who spends his time fighting against holocaust denial a holocaust denier. Why?
I am not calling Sergey a holocaust denier. Buchanan employed the argument that if Britain had not pushed Germany into WW2, the Holocaust would not have happened. Buchanan also denied the holocaust. It is obvious which Buchanan argument I was refering to in my analogy.
| 99 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 2:59:48am |
re: #96 Sergey Romanov
A genocide is a genocide. I don't see why you're trying to split hairs here.
Singularity of the Holocaust is not "splitting hairs".
| 100 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:00:32am |
re: #98 000G
Except that's not an argument I was making. So why did you bring Pat Buchanan?
| 101 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:00:43am |
re: #93 Sergey Romanov
So are you saying that the Holocaust as we know it was a _necessary_, rather than a probable consequence of the earlier Nazi policy? Name recent historians who agree with this view.
I am a rather strong intentionalist, you seem to be a rather strong functionalist. I don't think there's much agreement to be had here.
| 102 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:00:58am |
re: #88 Obdicut
Why do you keep calling it 'emotional' significance?
Because that's the only reason it's being used.
A more accurate description, our own murderous, smallpox blanket, reservation/segregation/American Legion/white nationalist bigots -- nobody knows about them. So hey, let's be lazy and use the next best thing, the Third Reich.
Why do you think the Gaza cranks use "apartheid" and call themselves on "Freedom rides"? If they didn't tap into some imagined emotional capital, no one would bother. Same with calling everything a Holocaust when it's not or Nazis when they're American rightwing xenophobes.
| 103 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:01:37am |
re: #100 Sergey Romanov
Except that's not an argument I was making. So why did you bring Pat Buchanan?
Buchanan's argument can be boiled down to: If not for WW2, there would have been no Holocaust as we know it. That's what you have said, at least as I read it.
| 104 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:02:19am |
re: #99 000G
Singularity of the Holocaust is not "splitting hairs".
No, but what _you_ are doing is splitting hairs. A genocide may be unique in its particulars, but in the end all genocides are just that - genocides.
| 105 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:03:22am |
re: #97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I haven't made that claim. That's an invention on your part.
No, it's not. When you say "But it doesn't have the same emotional heft. I get it, I really do.", you're implying that you get that I want to use the term, or am defending the use of the term, because of the emotional heft of it. That's not true. So please stop claiming it.
Calling Debbie Schlussel "Goebbels" or some other Nazi reference is also inaccurate. She's a homegrown American conservative rwnj bigot. They have a long, long history here.
But apartheid, when used against Israel, is meant to be literal. It's an actual accusation that Israel is apartheid. Debbie Goebbels, used against her, is obviously an analogy, and not literal.
| 106 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:03:47am |
re: #104 Sergey Romanov
No, but what _you_ are doing is splitting hairs. A genocide may be unique in its particulars, but in the end all genocides are just that - genocides.
All genocides are genocides. Yes, that's trivial and banal. That they are all "just" genocides "in the end" – no, I disagree. Misleading equivalence.
| 108 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:06:10am |
re: #105 Obdicut
But apartheid, when used against Israel, is meant to be literal. It's an actual accusation that Israel is apartheid. Debbie Goebbels, used against her, is obviously an analogy, and not literal.
Apartheid was a specific phenomenon in South African history to which Israel's policies are made out to be similar to. Goebbels was a specific phenomenon in German history that Schlussel might be made out to be similar to. They are both analogies.
| 109 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:06:11am |
re: #102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Because that's the only reason it's being used.
Why not listen to what I'm saying?
It's used because it has historical weight. If you say that someone is a Goebbels, it's not the emotional impact that's most important, to me, but the actual historical association. It means that person is a supporter of genocide.
Thank you for confirming that you are saying I'm lying when I say that it's not because of emotional impact that it's being used.
Can you explain why you said you weren't accusing me of lying, when you now repeat the assertion that I'm lying?
Or do you just think I'm confused, and actually like it for the emotional weight of it rather than the historical reference?
| 110 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:07:06am |
re: #109 Obdicut
It's used because it has historical weight. If you say that someone is a Goebbels, it's not the emotional impact that's most important, to me, but the actual historical association.
That's assuming that everybody has at least a somewhat accurate understanding of history.
| 111 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:07:23am |
re: #108 000G
Apartheid was a specific phenomenon in South African history to which Israel's policies are made out to be similar to.
No, apartheid is an actual policy. You can point to a society and say "that is apartheid at work" or "that is not apartheid".
It's not an analogy. It is an accusation of dual classes of citizenship based around ethnic lines.
| 112 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:08:47am |
re: #105 Obdicut
No, it's not. When you say "But it doesn't have the same emotional heft. I get it, I really do.", you're implying that you get that I want to use the term, or am defending the use of the term, because of the emotional heft of it. That's not true. So please stop claiming it.
But apartheid, when used against Israel, is meant to be literal. It's an actual accusation that Israel is apartheid. Debbie Goebbels, used against her, is obviously an analogy, and not literal.
Well, you're right. Neither are literal. Both analogies are false.
Debbie Goebbels, the term I called her once "Swastika Girl", those are false analogies.
There are better, more accurate ones. But those don't pull the same moral/ethical weight as Nazi ones. Right?
| 113 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:08:55am |
re: #110 000G
That's assuming that everybody has at least a somewhat accurate understanding of history.
As would using Jackson, or Coughlin, or anyone else.
Oh, and I missed this:
re: #78 000G
The reader still has to draw his or her own conclusions. It's true that there are no other possible meaningful conclusions than that she wants all muslims killed (not neccessarily by the U.S., though, that could be left open). But she does not say it outright.
So there's only one possible interpretation, but it's not explicit?
I don't follow. It clearly means she wants every Muslim in the world dead. It explicitly means that.
| 114 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:09:21am |
re: #111 Obdicut
No, apartheid is an actual policy. You can point to a society and say "that is apartheid at work" or "that is not apartheid".
It's not an analogy. It is an accusation of dual classes of citizenship based around ethnic lines.
Apartheid means first and foremost the specific racist policies installed in South Africa during a specific period in history. It does not mean first and foremost just those policies. The general policies are just called "racial segregation".
| 115 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:09:22am |
re: #101 000G
I am a rather strong intentionalist, you seem to be a rather strong functionalist. I don't think there's much agreement to be had here.
It's not a difference of opinion, sorry. Holocaust historiography has long ago passed the "f v. i" barrier as far as I'm concerned. The thesis and anti-thesis have resulted in a synthesis of recent works of the subject, such as Browning's, Longerich's and others'. It's an _evidence_ based approach. And the evidence shows that the plans for deportations - rather than wholesale extermination - were alive for some time even after 22.06.1941 and even after the full-scale genocide of the Soviet Jewry. There is nothing to support the notion that wholesale extermination was an omnipresent feature of the concrete Nazi policy in 1939, 1940, part of 1941. The documents show otherwise. At some point in late 1941 such plans did become the Nazi policy. That also means that if the circumstances were otherwise, it may not have happened, or it may have happened but very differently.
To even bring Buchanan into discussion is a joke, sorry.
| 116 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:09:30am |
re: #112 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Well, you're right. Neither are literal. Both analogies are false.
It's not meant as an analogy when used against Israel. It's meant literally.
| 117 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:10:12am |
re: #78 000G
So there's only one possible interpretation, but it's not explicit?
I don't follow. It clearly means she wants every Muslim in the world dead. It explicitly means that.
No: It neccessarily means that but only implicitly so.
| 118 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:11:11am |
re: #106 000G
All genocides are genocides. Yes, that's trivial and banal. That they are all "just" genocides "in the end" – no, I disagree. Misleading equivalence.
Sorry, the fact of the genocide overwhelms other factors. Nothing misleading about that. We may wrangle about what lead to what, but in the end masses of people have been murdered.
| 119 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:12:30am |
re: #115 Sergey Romanov
It's not a difference of opinion, sorry.
That's your opinion. I don't think there's any evidence for anything less than wholesame extermination (i.e. Madasgar plan) ever having been more than just toying around.
| 120 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:13:10am |
re: #118 Sergey Romanov
Sorry, the fact of the genocide overwhelms other factors.
That's your opinion, then.
Nothing misleading about that. We may wrangle about what lead to what, but in the end masses of people have been murdered.
Again: It's not about the numbers.
| 121 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:13:34am |
re: #117 000G
So you're willing to accuse Sergey of a Pat Buchanan style argument for rightly noting that the Germans didn't have an exterminationist policy towards Jews until later in the war-- a view that you then goddamn echo-- but you want to split semantic hairs about whether a necessary meaning is explicit?
I forget, are you not a native English speaker?
| 122 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:15:14am |
re: #119 000G
That's your opinion. I don't think there's any evidence for anything less than wholesame extermination (i.e. Madasgar plan) ever having been more than just toying around.
It's not just opinion. The plan of deportation as labor to the conquered Russian territories is historical fact, and, indeed, makes a lot of evil sense.
It is not a Pat Buchanan argument.
| 123 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:15:37am |
re: #83 CuriousLurker
Wow, I hadn't heard about that one. Just Googled it and saw it for myself. Sounds pretty clear to me even though she tried to say that's not what she was saying.
Typical bullying behavior: when you call them out on it, they try to wiggle out from under it, (and even delete incriminating parts of blog pages if need be)...
| 124 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:15:42am |
re: #119 000G
That's your opinion. I don't think there's any evidence for anything less than wholesame extermination (i.e. Madasgar plan) ever having been more than just toying around.
"That's your opinion" is not an argument, sorry. Madagascar plan was a real plan that would have resulted in massive deaths, but not wholesale extermination. You still have no historical support for your private notions about Nazi policy.
| 125 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:16:19am |
re: #121 Obdicut
So you're willing to accuse Sergey of a Pat Buchanan style argument for rightly noting that the Germans didn't have an exterminationist policy towards Jews until later in the war--
Of course there were no death camps in the 1920. But that does not mean that the extermination was only possible or likely back then, assuming the Nazis would have gotten into power eventually.
a view that you then goddamn echo--
I do not.
but you want to split semantic hairs about whether a necessary meaning is explicit?
Why are you getting upset about being corrected about this? Explicit does not mean neccessary. Something can be neccessary and implicit. Big deal.
| 126 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:16:22am |
re: #119 000G
By the way, the fact that the Nazis let some Jews leave-- after taking almost all their worldly goods, of course-- how does that fit into your comprehension?
| 127 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:16:39am |
tailspin
how 'bout that Global Warming. all a hoax, eh?
| 128 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:17:16am |
re: #120 000G
That's your opinion, then.
If you want to boil everything down to opinions, fine, just don't forget that yours are opinions too, so don't base arguments on those.
| 129 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:17:27am |
re: #124 Sergey Romanov
"That's your opinion" is not an argument, sorry. Madagascar plan was a real plan that would have resulted in massive deaths, but not wholesale extermination.
Madagascar plan was never a serious option for nazi policies, that's my point.
| 130 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:17:50am |
re: #109 Obdicut
Why not listen to what I'm saying?
It's used because it has historical weight. If you say that someone is a Goebbels, it's not the emotional impact that's most important, to me, but the actual historical association. It means that person is a supporter of genocide.
Thank you for confirming that you are saying I'm lying when I say that it's not because of emotional impact that it's being used.
Can you explain why you said you weren't accusing me of lying, when you now repeat the assertion that I'm lying?
Or do you just think I'm confused, and actually like it for the emotional weight of it rather than the historical reference?
I hear what you're saying, I just happen to disagree, and have a different opinion than you. You're not required to agree with my opinion.
We have many examples of genocide in our own history. From my own family history, read about Forsyth County, CA and the so-called Racial Cleansing of 1912, i.e. 100 years ago. The county is still overwhelmingly white, 100 years later.
They are not as glamorous as Nazi genocide. Neither are the cities and towns that got rid of their Asian/Asian-American populations over 100 years.
Anti-Israel dupes tried and still try smearing Israel as Zionazi, AshkenNAZI and all other manner of bullshit using the "nazi" moniker.
They call it a historical reference, too, does that make it a legit analogy, just because they're attached to it?
Since it didn't work, they've now moved on to the apartheid historical reference. Soon, it will be Jim Crow....thanks to Alice Walker and her Freedom Ride historical reference, it's already moving in that direction.
Doesn't make it so.
| 131 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:17:51am |
re: #125 000G
Of course there were no death camps in the 1920. But that does not mean that the extermination was only possible or likely back then, assuming the Nazis would have gotten into power eventually.
If the Germans were fully exterminationist then, then why did they let any Jews leave Germany?
Why are you getting upset about being corrected about this? Explicit does not mean neccessary. Something can be neccessary and implicit. Big deal.
Again: are you not a native English speaker? You seem to be using a grammar-literal meaning of the word explicit, and ignoring how it's actually used in speech.
| 132 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:19:04am |
re: #126 Obdicut
By the way, the fact that the Nazis let some Jews leave-- after taking almost all their worldly goods, of course-- how does that fit into your comprehension?
Corruption (called thusly from a Nazi POV). See also Vorzugsjuden or Austauschjuden, though.
| 133 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:19:10am |
re: #130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I'm sorry, I can't help you with the argument you're having with people who aren't me. I have no idea why you're bringing up people who smear Israel.
| 134 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:20:03am |
re: #132 000G
Corruption (called thusly from a Nazi POV). See also Vorzugsjuden or Austauschjuden, though.
So your claim is that there was an actual Nazi policy against letting any Jews leave, but corrupt officials let them go?
| 135 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:23:29am |
re: #134 Obdicut
So your claim is that there was an actual Nazi policy against letting any Jews leave, but corrupt officials let them go?
Things like the Helldorf-Spende were unofficial. But the Reichsfluchtsteuer was official policy. I guess you could argue that between 1939 and 1941 Nazis were tinkering with letting Jews leave.
| 136 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:24:11am |
re: #116 Obdicut
It's not meant as an analogy when used against Israel. It's meant literally.
Calling her a "bitch", is that literal or analogy, given that "bitch" as used today has nothing to do with the literal meaning of a pregnant canine? Sergey says it's out of bounds. I say, both are out of bounds. You don't have to agree or go by it.
The comparisons are objectionable because they are inherently false, not because somebody may or may not mean it "literally". Some people are using it as an analogy, people who have no clue what "apartheid" was, or -- back to our familiar topic -- that we have our own history of that here.
That's the sort of slippage that leads to worse analogies like Gaza flotillas = freedom rides, coming from people who definitely know better but are just clinging to whatever historical analogy will get their point across.
Sorry, there is no way around the emotional significance of choosing some symbols of evil over other lesser known or unglamorous ones.
| 137 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:24:56am |
re: #129 000G
Madagascar plan was never a serious option for nazi policies, that's my point.
But it was. You're misinformed on this point. See [Link: books.google.com...]
| 138 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:26:09am |
re: #137 Sergey Romanov
But it was. You're misinformed on this point. See [Link: books.google.com...]
I don't see anything there refuting my point. Care to point it out?
| 139 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:26:10am |
re: #136 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Sorry, there is no way around the emotional significance of choosing some symbols of evil over other lesser known or unglamorous ones.
Sure there is. By pointing out that using one that's well-known communicates the analogy more easily than using a lesser-known one.
I have no idea why you'd prefer to ignore this and instead assert that I really want to use the phrase for its emotional resonance.
| 140 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:29:12am |
re: #135 000G
Things like the Helldorf-Spende were unofficial. But the Reichsfluchtsteuer was official policy. I guess you could argue that between 1939 and 1941 Nazis were tinkering with letting Jews leave.
Thank you for conceding that you were wrong.
| 141 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:29:23am |
re: #137 Sergey Romanov
Like a spectacular meteor, the Madagascar Plan blazed across the sky of Nazi Jewish policy, only to butn out abruptly. It was no less real for its brief existence. There can be "no doubt that during this period both Rademacher and Eichmann tackled the plan in full earnest". More important, it was taken seriously by the Nazi leadership. To Frank's great relief and Greiser's diappointment, the impending deportations from the Warthegau to the Geenral Government were canceled. Frank in turn temporarily ordered the end of ghetto construction as pointless. These men were not carrying out an elaborate sham; they were making real decisions based on the Madagascar Plan as a real part of Nazi Jewish policy in the summer of 1940.
| 142 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:30:05am |
| 143 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:30:17am |
re: #138 000G
I don't see anything there refuting my point. Care to point it out?
Then perhaps you should read it...
| 144 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:31:25am |
re: #142 000G
I didn't.
If the Germans were "tinkering with letting Jews leave", then were they exterminationist from the very beginning?
| 145 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:31:39am |
re: #133 Obdicut
I'm sorry, I can't help you with the argument you're having with people who aren't me. I have no idea why you're bringing up people who smear Israel.
If I wanted your help, I would just ask for it.
To recap: before you entered the conversation, I was saying that there's no need to reference "nazis" to talk about what Schlussel is doing. My point has been, everything's hitler (Godwin) now, everything's a Holocaust, everybody's a nazi, now.
Sorry, but I find that lazy thinking, especially since we have our own longstanding history of xenophobia, manifest destiny, genocide, smallpox blankets, racial cleansings, alien land laws, immigration quotas, education quotas, the list goes on and on, rightchere.
It may be easier and more convenient to draw on nazis. But we don't have to.
Afaic, that's what Schlussel, Geller, Spencer, Lind, Weyrich, Beck, Dilling, Skousen, Benson and the rest of the CPAC/John Birch Society bigots are drawing on, not the nazis, not hitler or the rest.
You seem attached to those references, for whatever your reasons. Use them or don't, that's up to you.
I've only been saying why I don't use them, and don't need them. Why that's some major issue for you, I'll never know until you tell me.
| 146 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:31:47am |
re: #143 Sergey Romanov
Then perhaps you should read it...
I have read some about the plan, though not an interpretation of it as quoted by you, which I was asking for in the context of this debate. Thanks.
| 147 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:32:22am |
re: #144 Obdicut
If the Germans were "tinkering with letting Jews leave", then were they exterminationist from the very beginning?
How is one necessarily contradicting the other?
| 148 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:32:50am |
re: #145 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
To recap: before you entered the conversation, I was saying that there's no need to reference "nazis" to talk about what Schlussel is doing.
Entirely true. There's no need.
You seem attached to those references, for whatever your reasons. Use them or don't, that's up to you.
I guess you're not actually bothering to read my posts, since I haven't ever used the analogy and said that I wouldn't.
| 149 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:33:10am |
re: #147 000G
How is one necessarily contradicting the other?
Um, if you let Jews leave, you're not exterminating them, are you?
| 150 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:33:18am |
re: #146 000G
I have read some about the plan, though not an interpretation of it as quoted by you, which I was asking for in the context of this debate. Thanks.
How about this, read Browning's book (I can send you e-book), and then say what you find disagreeable in his conclusions?
| 151 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:33:51am |
re: #149 Obdicut
Um, if you let Jews leave, you're not exterminating them, are you?
You might do it later. Nazis weren't exactly isolationist.
| 152 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:34:21am |
re: #150 Sergey Romanov
How about this, read Browning's book (I can send you e-book), and then say what you find disagreeable in his conclusions?
Alright, sounds fair. Might take me a while, though.
| 153 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:35:32am |
re: #152 000G
Alright, sounds fair. Might take me a while, though.
OK. Shoot me an e-mail please, I will send it out in 2-3 days.
| 154 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:36:19am |
re: #153 Sergey Romanov
OK. Shoot me an e-mail please, I will send it out in 2-3 days.
(Otherwise I'll forget.)
| 155 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:36:36am |
re: #139 Obdicut
Sure there is. By pointing out that using one that's well-known communicates the analogy more easily than using a lesser-known one.
I have no idea why you'd prefer to ignore this and instead assert that I really want to use the phrase for its emotional resonance.
If it's anything I've asserved, several times, it's that it's up to you or anyone else how they use Nazi imagery based on their ease of use. I just think it's inappropriate to use Nazi smears against Jews but again, that's my choice. Using them against whomever is your or anyone else's option.
It's not personal at all, and never has been, despite your efforts to make it so. They're starting to look kind of desperate.
| 156 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:36:48am |
re: #151 000G
You might do it later. Nazis weren't exactly isolationist.
Well, there's obviously no point in continuing this discussion, if you're going to reject actual evidence of Nazis letting Jews leave and not exterminating them as indicative of nothing given that they could exterminate them later. Then any discussion of the Madagascar plan or deportation to the Russian territories doesn't matter, because you'll just say they were planning on exterminating them later.
You've begged the question, and there's nowhere to go.
| 157 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:37:27am |
re: #148 Obdicut
Entirely true. There's no need.
I guess you're not actually bothering to read my posts, since I haven't ever used the analogy and said that I wouldn't.
Then there's no need to be defensive against anything I've said.
| 158 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:38:29am |
re: #155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
If it's anything I've asserved, several times, it's that it's up to you or anyone else how they use Nazi imagery based on their ease of use. I just think it's inappropriate to use Nazi smears against Jews but again, that's my choice. Using them against whomever is your or anyone else's option.
It's not personal at all, and never has been, despite your efforts to make it so. They're starting to look kind of desperate.
It's more baffling that you appear not to be reading what I'm actually writing. I don't think it's personal. It's kind of the opposite; you're having some generic argument with me, and not reading what I'm actually saying, or paying attention to my actual opinions.
| 159 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:39:03am |
| 160 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:39:42am |
re: #157 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Then there's no need to be defensive against anything I've said.
Hee hee. Um, the same to you? I have no idea what you're talking about at this point.
| 161 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:40:19am |
re: #156 Obdicut
Well, there's obviously no point in continuing this discussion, if you're going to reject actual evidence of Nazis letting Jews leave and not exterminating them as indicative of nothing given that they could exterminate them later. Then any discussion of the Madagascar plan or deportation to the Russian territories doesn't matter, because you'll just say they were planning on exterminating them later.
You've begged the question, and there's nowhere to go.
Invasion of Britain, where many Jews fled to, was a real Nazi plan. Also remember the Jews of Tunisia.
| 162 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:41:24am |
re: #161 000G
Invasion of Britain, where many Jews fled to, was a real Nazi plan. Also remember the Jews of Tunisia.
So it was. However, my point is that what you're attempting to prove is that the Germans were exterminationist from the beginning. However, you're using it as an assumption, rather than something to be proved. There is no possible way to argue against that.
| 163 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:42:47am |
re: #162 Obdicut
However, you're using it as an assumption, rather than something to be proved.
I don't. Don't Popper me, dude.
| 164 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:44:58am |
re: #158 Obdicut
It's more baffling that you appear not to be reading what I'm actually writing. I don't think it's personal. It's kind of the opposite; you're having some generic argument with me, and not reading what I'm actually saying, or paying attention to my actual opinions.
I could easily say the exact same thing, that you're talking past me with some imagined adversary.
In fact, I could say this is hardly an argument at all, since you see me as accusing you of lying, arguing with you in someone else's stead, doing -- whatever -- when I've done no such things at all.
For whatever reasons, you've opted to take what I've said as a personal affront, yet you seem to think I'm the one who's confused. Why?
| 165 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:47:19am |
Enh, I'm out. Life calls.
| 166 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:47:42am |
re: #163 000G
I don't. Don't Popper me, dude.
What would you accept as evidence that the Nazis were not exterminationist from the beginning?
And what is your proof that they were?
| 167 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:50:08am |
re: #160 Obdicut
Hee hee. Um, the same to you? I have no idea what you're talking about at this point.
I do not doubt that at all. But I haven't said anything different now than when this conversation started what, an hour and a half ago? lol
| 168 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:51:55am |
Can we get back to debating AGW now or something less tedious and circular?
| 169 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:53:00am |
re: #168 ralphieboy
Can we get back to debating AGW now or something less tedious and circular?
Aww now where's the fun and controversy in that? /
| 171 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:56:28am |
Al was pretty cute in his day.
Did you see the Tipper/PMRC/Oprah clip downstairs? It = smh
| 173 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 3:58:37am |
re: #166 Obdicut
What would you accept as evidence that the Nazis were not exterminationist from the beginning?
And what is your proof that they were?
Notably, I would agree that the Holocaust was inherent in the Nazi writings since 1920 in the sense that it was a real possibility, based on what they wrote, and they would have, of course, been glad if every Jew just dropped dead. The only sense in which they weren't exterminationist from the beginning is the practical policy sense. The modern consensus is that they didn't even plan for the wholesale murder of the Soviet Jews on 22.6.41, only for decimation of the "Bolshevik element" among them (Commisar Order) - in the first days they were mostly shooting what they considered "adult males" (ca. 16-65 y.o.). But once you begin shooting, there's a problem of where to stop. So naturally enough, the policy radicalized into wholesale slaughter of Soviet Jews regardless of sex and age.
That, however, is not a "functionalist" perspective. The decisions from above played as much role as pressures from below. Some functionalists have argued that there was no "Fuehrer Order" as such, but as I said, the gap between functionalists and intentionalists has been more or less bridged since then. At times circumstances played role in shaping policy, but "Fuehrer's decision", as recorded by Goebbels and Frank, is also undeniable.
| 174 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:00:06am |
re: #170 ralphieboy
Making fun of Al Gore!
Apparently not as worried about dangerous sea level rises as he touts in his speeches, Former Vice President Al Gore and his wife Tipper have purchased a seaside villa in Montecito, California. The Nobel Laureate reported paid $8.8 million for the property.
Heh. Rising seas are coming to get him.
[Link: www.examiner.com...]
| 175 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:00:23am |
re: #164 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Hah, I had so much text there.
Okay. Let me replicate the only actually important bit:
What I'm saying is that the emotional weight actually gets in the way of the historical analogy, and that's why I don't use Nazi analogies at almost any point.
So, it's kind of the opposite of wanting to use it for the emotional weight. I'd like to use such analogies because of the historical weight, but I don't, because they lead to squabbles like this.
| 176 |
otoc Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:00:45am |
lol, I've been linking this Stewart vid since he made it in posts that seem to annoy my rightwing friends. Such insults to Stewart until they see the one where he wonders about Obama in the debt talks. Then it's OK to use Stewart as an example. Such duplicity. Both with Fox on the "don't make this about Jesus", and the right on only wanting to use Stewart when the purpose serves them ;p
I don't get my news from Jon, but I do enjoy his look at politics at both sides.
| 177 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:01:18am |
re: #173 Sergey Romanov
The modern consensus is that they didn't even plan for the wholesale murder of the Soviet Jews on 22.6.41, only for decimation of the "Bolshevik element" among them (Commisar Order) - in the first days they were mostly shooting what they considered "adult males" (ca. 16-65 y.o.).
Which, by the way, is reminiscent of Srebrenica. OH NOEZ! I made another Nazi comparison! Sue me.
| 178 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:05:40am |
re: #173 Sergey Romanov
Agreed. The end result of exterminationist policy was a probable outcome from the very beginning-- even beyond Jews, given the Nazis idea on racial purity. It's hard to imagine a Nazi Europe with any room for the Roma.
However, I think their great fondness for slave labor and lording it over the lesser races might well have led to that, instead, in the nightmare future where the Nazis win. Jews, Slavs, and other races not exterminated wholesale but enslaved as living symbols of Nazi ideological triumph.
Yerch. Makes me so sick to my stomach to think about.
| 179 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:13:12am |
re: #178 Obdicut
In fact, if we look at "microstudies", we see that there have been internal struggles between Nazi attritionists and Nazi annihilationists, the former basing their arguments on economic considerations, and the latter on ideology.
As for the Roma and Sinti, notably the Nazi policy differed in an important way from the treatment of the Jews. The Nazis fully acknowledged the "Aryan" roots of the Gypsies and at first they were trying to "reeducate" those of them they considered racially pure Zigeuner (IIRC Zigeuner "Mischlinge" were considered to be inferior - which was the opposite for the Jewish "Mischlinge"). It is after the failure they began mowing them down and sending them to concentration camps.
| 180 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:13:37am |
| 181 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:17:07am |
re: #175 Obdicut
Hah, I had so much text there.
Okay. Let me replicate the only actually important bit:
What I'm saying is that the emotional weight actually gets in the way of the historical analogy, and that's why I don't use Nazi analogies at almost any point.
So, it's kind of the opposite of wanting to use it for the emotional weight. I'd like to use such analogies because of the historical weight, but I don't, because they lead to squabbles like this.
But it's not a squabble at all.
I agree with you; like I said earlier, you're making my argument for me.
Don't get tripped up over the word "emotional". I used it for many reasons. You can agree with them, or not. Either way is fine with me.
Here is my position, again:
1) "bitch" is used against Debbie Schlussel in the same exact way, for emotional, not rational or historical reasons
1a) I wasn't the one who objected to it, even as a woman who gets that emotional response tossed at me all the dang time, especially given my views, and my manner. Anyway,
1b) If it's wrong to use that word against Debbie Schlussel, then why should we not consider the use of Godwin card against her as well?
2) Debbie Schlussel is not a product of Nazi hate. Her father is a victim of Nazi hate. Debbie Schlussel is bathed in American rightwing xenophobia and obviously her parent's experience. That American rightwing xenophobia has a long history here. She fits into it like hand in glove and seems to like it that way.
3) Godwin's law strikes a chord, perhaps an emotional chord, with us for a reason -- the reason is it's a form of logical fallacy. I hope some day in my glorious internet career to have an Oh Crap Law named for me, which calls attention to every time someone says "content of character" or "tired feet" or "freedom ride" in a thread.
Lazy historical reference. Argument lost. Thread over!
| 182 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:24:01am |
re: #180 Cannadian Club Akbar
D.A.R.E. resource officer charged in DUI crash pulling D.A.R.E. trailer.
Probably did it on a dare.
| 183 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:25:08am |
re: #175 Obdicut
Hah, I had so much text there.
Lol I know what you mean. I have done the same thing - almost run out my frickin character limit. Then hit some random key instead of the right key and whoops, that goes that post.
Internet. Who doesn't love the internet.
| 184 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:26:16am |
re: #183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol I know what you mean. I have done the same thing - almost run out my frickin character limit. Then hit some random key instead of the right key and whoops, that goes that post.
Internet. Who doesn't love the internet.
Shopping malls and the post office.
| 185 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:29:32am |
re: #181 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
1b) If it's wrong to use that word against Debbie Schlussel, then why should we not consider the use of Godwin card against her as well?
Because it's a historical reference that actually fits her position on genocide.
Godwin's law strikes a chord, perhaps an emotional chord, with us for a reason -- the reason is it's a form of logical fallacy.
It's not actually a form of logical fallacy. You know that, right?
| 186 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:31:23am |
re: #179 Sergey Romanov
I didn't know that about the Nazi attempts to re-educate the Roma. Is there any particularly good source that deals with that in detail? I'd be interested. (Don't know if you remember, but my wife is part Roma.)
| 187 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:32:23am |
re: #181 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
> If it's wrong to use that word against Debbie Schlussel, then why should we not consider the use of Godwin card against her as well?
Again, the cases are not analogous at all, IMHO. There are two issues: whether the Nazi references should be used at all (I fully understand those who say "no" and respect this position). And whether any groups should be excepted by default from such references if one does use them after all (this is where I will say a firm "no" since I don't find such a position coherent; I don't care about Debbie's ethnicity; I will call her what I call her regardless of whether she might be Jewish, Russian or Eskimo).
"Bitch", on the other hand, is an inherently sexist term, no matter how you apply it (although there are gradation, e.g. it's less serious when it's used jokingly). Same with "faggot" and some other words.
| 188 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:41:38am |
re: #185 Obdicut
Because it's a historical reference that actually fits her position on genocide.
There are more accurate ones. Personally, I'm not invested in using it, or attached to calling Debbie Schlussel a bitch or some nazi to score vindication points.
You suggested you aren't, either. I believe you, even though you keep proffering rebuttals like the one above.
It's not actually a form of logical fallacy. You know that, right?
The reason we laugh at Godwin's Law ("law") is because its subjects never win arguments by labeling others Nazis. Even if some abstract logical case can be made for it. It doesn't win arguments, mainly because Nazi references are ahistorical, and knee-jerk.
Yes, she's pro-genocide. The Nazis carried out genocide. The Indian Wars carried out genocide. We've got ethnic pogroms and xenophobia-based murder in our own history.
There are better (though not as emotionally appealing) historical metaphors; pick one.
| 190 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:46:16am |
re: #188 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
You suggested you aren't, either. I believe you, even though you keep proffering rebuttals like the one above.
I think it'd be great if we could use the historical analogy where it's appropriate without people immediately having an emotional reaction to it, but we can't, so I don't. I'm not sure how I can be clearer.
The reason we laugh at Godwin's Law ("law") is because its subjects never win arguments by labeling others Nazis.
But that has nothing to do with logical fallacies. In fact, claiming that someone's lost an argument because they've referenced the Nazis would be, in itself, a logical fallacy.
There are better (though not as emotionally appealing) historical metaphors; pick one.
On what grounds are they better? Using Andrew Jackson as a reference seems rather inferior, given how few people know that he advocated genocide and the fact that he's still celebrated as a hero of our country.
| 191 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:46:25am |
| 192 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:47:29am |
"When I die, I want to go peacefully like my Grandfather did, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car."
— Jack Handey
| 193 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:48:29am |
re: #186 Obdicut
I didn't know that about the Nazi attempts to re-educate the Roma. Is there any particularly good source that deals with that in detail? I'd be interested. (Don't know if you remember, but my wife is part Roma.)
I've never heard a peep about Nazi attempts to reeducate anyone, really.
[Link: fcit.coedu.usf.edu...]
[Link: www.holocaust-trc.org...]
[Link: fcit.coedu.usf.edu...]
| 194 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:49:17am |
And just to note, Godwin's law itself just observes that as an internet discussion continues, the likelihood of a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis approaches certainty. It doesn't actually say anything about winning or losing. That got added on later.
| 195 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:51:19am |
re: #187 Sergey Romanov
> If it's wrong to use that word against Debbie Schlussel, then why should we not consider the use of Godwin card against her as well?
Again, the cases are not analogous at all, IMHO. There are two issues: whether the Nazi references should be used at all (I fully understand those who say "no" and respect this position). And whether any groups should be excepted by default from such references if one does use them after all (this is where I will say a firm "no" since I don't find such a position coherent; I don't care about Debbie's ethnicity; I will call her what I call her regardless of whether she might be Jewish, Russian or Eskimo).
"Bitch", on the other hand, is an inherently sexist term, no matter how you apply it (although there are gradation, e.g. it's less serious when it's used jokingly). Same with "faggot" and some other words.
Ridiculous argument.
There are two issues: whether the Nazi references should be used at all (I fully understand those who say "no" and respect this position)
Then you should have no quibble with what I've been saying for two hours.
For the sake of argument, forget Ms. Schlussel's ethnicity, and what she relates on her blog about her family history. Pretend she's just another random Euro American Christian white bottle blond with a big shrieky mouth and a blog. Forget I said anything about the ethnicity she brought up in the essay in question.
Point remains: she's not a nazi any more than she is a "bitch". She's not drawing on Nazi history, she's an American rwnj conservative xenophobe, like the rest of the bigots who inspired Anders.
Why is saying so such a big freakin' deal?
| 196 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:53:57am |
re: #190 Obdicut
On what grounds are they better? Using Andrew Jackson as a reference seems rather inferior, given how few people know that he advocated genocide and the fact that he's still celebrated as a hero of our country.
9_9
That's my argument.
Why do you keep doing that, if you don't disagree?
If anyone else wants to use lazy historical references because they're more convenient, no one is stopping them.
I'm just saying why I'm not doing it.
You seem to agree on every other level, so what's the issue?
| 197 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:56:50am |
You call this a flamewar?!?!
Freaking newbs.
///
| 198 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:57:07am |
re: #196 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That's my argument.Why do you keep doing that, if you don't disagree?
How is that your argument? Weren't you saying that we should use sources 'closer to home'?
If anyone else wants to use lazy historical references because they're more convenient, no one is stopping them.
I'm just saying why I'm not doing it.
Why do you call them 'lazy'?
You seem to agree on every other level, so what's the issue?
My issues right now are the following:
1. You repeatedly think that those using the analogy want to do so because of the emotional impact. That may be true of some, but for others, it is obviously the historical weight of it, not the emotional one, that's being referenced.
2. You seem to think Godwin's law is a logical fallacy.
3. You think that referencing Nazis in order to communicate a reference to genocidal intentions is 'lazy'.
4. That weird thing you do with your ear.
| 199 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:57:37am |
Hitler was a dog-loving vegetarian repressed homosexual who liked Wagner operas.
This has nothing to do with the argument, I just like talking about Hitler.
| 200 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:57:42am |
re: #198 Obdicut
2. You seem to think Godwin's law is describes a logical fallacy.
| 201 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:58:18am |
re: #199 ralphieboy
This has nothing to do with the argument, I just like talking about Hitler.
Ah, you must work for the History Channel.
| 202 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 4:59:42am |
1) Talking aobut Hitler/Nazis gets attention.
2) Lotsa people will do anything to gain attention
ergo,
Hitler/Nazis are going to get mentioned an awful lot
| 203 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:00:33am |
re: #197 Varek Raith
You call this a flamewar?!?!
Freaking newbs.
///
There were volcanoes on the moon.
/
| 204 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:00:36am |
re: #194 Obdicut
And just to note, Godwin's law itself just observes that as an internet discussion continues, the likelihood of a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis approaches certainty. It doesn't actually say anything about winning or losing. That got added on later.
Going Godwin on Debbie Schlussel may feel good for a minute, but is that the goal?
| 205 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:01:38am |
re: #203 Cannadian Club Akbar
There were volcanoes on the moon.
/
Further proof against global warming. And why are they only on the dark side? No explanation for that.
| 206 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:01:49am |
re: #203 Cannadian Club Akbar
There were volcanoes on the moon.
/
Obviously a Jewish plot to take over the world.
Or was it a grass knoll?
| 207 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:02:26am |
re: #204 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Going Godwin on Debbie Schlussel may feel good for a minute, but is that the goal?
Do you really not get the whole 'It's not for emotional impact, it's a historical reference' thing? Or are you simply unable to believe that's possible?
| 208 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:05:59am |
re: #186 Obdicut
I didn't know that about the Nazi attempts to re-educate the Roma. Is there any particularly good source that deals with that in detail? I'd be interested. (Don't know if you remember, but my wife is part Roma.)
I was wrong about the re-education part, confused it with policy towards homosexuals. However, the rest of what I wrote (about differences in policy) is correct. Here's a detailed overview:
[Link: academos.ro...]
Note that some Sinti Gypsies were considered by Himmler in 1942 to be fit even for a special Wehrmacht unit. As to sources, one of the foremost researchers of the question is Michael Zimmermann.
| 209 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:06:01am |
re: #205 ralphieboy
Further proof against global warming. And why are they only on the dark side? No explanation for that.
Those so called 'Lunar Volcanoes' are clearly props built by Hollywood and the Freemasons.
| 210 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:07:26am |
re: #209 Varek Raith
Those so called 'Lunar Volcanoes' are clearly props built by Hollywood and the Freemasons.
So, we went to the moon to built prop volcanoes but we faked the moon landing. These people need to get on the same page. Really.
| 211 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:08:15am |
re: #210 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, we went to the moon to built prop volcanoes but we faked the moon landing. These people need to get on the same page. Really.
This should have been written in wingnut form. My bad.
| 212 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:08:20am |
re: #198 Obdicut
How is that your argument? Weren't you saying that we should use sources 'closer to home'?
Why do you call them 'lazy'?
My issues right now are the following:
1. You repeatedly think that those using the analogy want to do so because of the emotional impact. That may be true of some, but for others, it is obviously the historical weight of it, not the emotional one, that's being referenced.
Everyone calling the other a Nazi makes that claim, that the nazis did this and that and so does this person, so shut up.
Doesn't make it so.
Debbie Schlussel isn't a Nazi. I don't know why it's so important to label her as one. This is what tells me there is some kind of weird emotional blockage happening.
2. You seem to think Godwin's law is a logical fallacy.
The actual quote was, "is a form of logical fallacy".
So what?
3. You think that referencing Nazis in order to communicate a reference to genocidal intentions is 'lazy'.
Lazy, unnecessary, emotionally-based not logically-based, ahistorical, potentially knee-jerk, etc.
What's the problem?
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
4. That weird thing you do with your ear.
Uh-huh.
| 213 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:08:43am |
re: #210 Cannadian Club Akbar
So, we went to the moon to built prop volcanoes but we faked the moon landing. These people need to get on the same page. Really.
Hey, I just come up with a nonsensical premise.
It ain't my job to fill in the details.
:P
| 214 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:09:50am |
re: #213 Varek Raith
Hey, I just come up with a nonsensical premise.
It ain't my job to fill in the details.
:P
Every organization needs an "idea man". You're filling a vital role.
| 215 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:11:10am |
re: #195 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Ridiculous argument.
Excuse me?
Then you should have no quibble with what I've been saying for two hours.
I must confess I skipped your battle with Obdi.
For the sake of argument, forget Ms. Schlussel's ethnicity, and what she relates on her blog about her family history.
Which are indeed irrelevant to what other crap that she writes.
Point remains: she's not a nazi any more than she is a "bitch". She's not drawing on Nazi history, she's an American rwnj conservative xenophobe, like the rest of the bigots who inspired Anders.
Why is saying so such a big freakin' deal?
Again, I said I respect a position of someone who doesn't use Nazi analogies on principle.
| 216 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:11:59am |
re: #207 Obdicut
Do you really not get the whole 'It's not for emotional impact, it's a historical reference' thing? Or are you simply unable to believe that's possible?
I understand it all too well.
I don't agree with anyone's argument along those lines, including yours; in fact, I believe you when you say you don't wield the term against others in that way.
I am also suspect of this weird defense of doing so, coming from someone who, as I do, does not do it, yourself.
She's not a Nazi, she's a classic American xenophobic culturally conservative bigot.
| 217 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:12:20am |
Your sister is pretty hot but your mom does that thing with her tongue....
| 218 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:12:40am |
re: #215 Sergey Romanov
Again, I said I respect a position of someone who doesn't use Nazi analogies on principle.
Freaking grammar nazi.
/
| 219 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:12:45am |
re: #212 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Everyone calling the other a Nazi makes that claim, that the nazis did this and that and so does this person, so shut up.
Huh? Who's telling who to shut up, here?
Debbie Schlussel isn't a Nazi. I don't know why it's so important to label her as one. This is what tells me there is some kind of weird emotional blockage happening.
I don't find it at all important to label her as one. I do think it's important to note that she's advocating genocide in a way no less total than the Nazis did. Is that a problem for some reason?
The actual quote was, "is a form of logical fallacy".
So what?
Did you mean that those who use Godwin's law-- as you did-- are committing a logical fallacy? Or that it describes a logical fallacy on the part of those making the comparison to Nazis?
Lazy, unnecessary, emotionally-based not logically-based, ahistorical, potentially knee-jerk, etc.
What's the problem?
You haven't explained why it's lazy, or supported that contention at all.
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
Can you please point out where I ask you to convert your view?
| 220 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:13:35am |
re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar
Your sister is pretty hot but your mom does that thing with her tongue...
We talking about pick-up lines?
| 221 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:13:42am |
re: #217 Cannadian Club Akbar
Your sister is pretty hot but your mom does that thing with her tongue...
4chan is that-a-way >
/
| 222 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:13:42am |
| 223 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:13:53am |
re: #215 Sergey Romanov
Excuse me?
Lol did I stutter?
I must confess I skipped your battle with Obdi.
It's not a battle, it's just a disagreement.
Again, I said I respect a position of someone who doesn't use Nazi analogies on principle.
That makes three of us.
| 224 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:14:36am |
re: #216 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I understand it all too well.
If you understand it, why do you continue to insist that those using it are doing so for emotional impact?
She's not a Nazi, she's a classic American xenophobic culturally conservative bigot.
Who are, amazingly, quite similar to Nazis in many ways, especially when they advocate genocide.
| 225 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:15:10am |
re: #223 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol did I stutter?
No, I just find labeling an opponent's argument "ridiculous" without explaining why it is so to be bad style, is all.
| 227 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:17:12am |
Soup Nazi
| 228 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:18:34am |
re: #227 NJDhockeyfan
The Dude should have considered whether he was making a lazy historical reference here, I guess:
| 229 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:18:44am |
| 230 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:19:20am |
re: #227 NJDhockeyfan
Joking about Nazis? The horror.
| 231 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:19:38am |
re: #219 Obdicut
Huh? Who's telling who to shut up, here?
No one is telling anyone to shut up, relax. Don't be so eager to be offended.
I don't find it at all important to label her as one.
Neither do I. What's the problem?
Did you mean that those who use Godwin's law-- as you did-- are committing a logical fallacy? Or that it describes a logical fallacy on the part of those making the comparison to Nazis?
Godwin's Law isn't a law. It's a joke that points up lazy, reflexive, fallacious thinking that happens in emotionally-charged threads on the internet.
You haven't explained why it's lazy, or supported that contention at all.
I've explained this from the outset. But in your haste to say I'm accusing you of lying, or not understanding the conversation, or arguing with someone other than you, I guess you've missed it.
| 232 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:19:44am |
| 233 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:20:35am |
| 234 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:21:47am |
| 235 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:23:01am |
re: #225 Sergey Romanov
No, I just find labeling an opponent's argument "ridiculous" without explaining why it is so to be bad style, is all.
Just read through the post for the explanation. Everyone here has their own posting style. Can I help it if mine isn't exactly the same as yours?
| 236 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:23:17am |
Wanna get a nice hotel in Iran? Get arrested!
Minister Claims Iranian Prisons Are Like Hotels
Javad Shamghadari, the deputy chief of cinema at Iran’s Ministry of Culture, has said that contrary to reports, the conditions at Iranian prisons are actually very good.
ILNA cited Shamghadari saying: “I hope our journalist friends visit Evin Prison so they can see Evin is exactly like a hotel and in very good condition.”
Other Iranian officials have spoken up for Iranian prisons over the past two years. In the summer of 2009, when large numbers of protesters were being arrested all across the country, the head of prisons for Theran Province said: “Our cells are like hotel suites, and we have no solitary confinement.”
Around the same time, the head of Parliament’s Social Commission, Soleyman Jafarzadeh, said: “The Islamic Republic, unlike other countries, even respects the dignity of criminals,” adding that Iranian prisons are like hotels.
I wonder whats on their room service menu?
| 237 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:23:52am |
re: #231 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
No one is telling anyone to shut up, relax. Don't be so eager to be offended.
I'm not offended. I'm asking you, in this sentence of yours:
Everyone calling the other a Nazi makes that claim, that the nazis did this and that and so does this person, so shut up.
Who is being asked to shut up. I'm sorry, that sentence in particular really confused me. It seems to have little to do with what we're talking about. If you mean that people are asking Debbie Shussel to shut up, it's kind of true, though nobody's actually asking her directly, of course.
Godwin's Law isn't a law. It's a joke that points up lazy, reflexive, fallacious thinking that happens in emotionally-charged threads on the internet.
But it doesn't actually speak to whether the use was fallacious or not. That's my point. You seem to think that it implies a logical fallacy; it doesn't.
I guess you've missed it.
I think you've done a very poor job of explaining why it's lazy. You seem to be saying that using a more obscure reference that would be understood by fewer people would be superior-- such as to Andrew Jackson-- because it'd be more accurate. That still doesn't explain the 'lazy' part.
| 238 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:24:44am |
Chilling Video Captures Man's Cries For Help As He Is Tased And Beaten To Death
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]
Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old homeless man with schizophrenia, kept calling for his father as police beat and tased him repeatedly.But his father, a retired Orange County sheriff’s deputy, was not around.
It wasn't until after Thomas slipped into a coma and was hospitalized with multiple injures that his father saw him.
And by then, it was too late. Thomas never recovered. The 160-pound man died five days after his run-in with Fullerton police.
...with before and after pics. Not for those with a weak constitution.
LA Times version:
[Link: latimesblogs.latimes.com...]
| 239 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:24:49am |
re: #235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Just read through the post for the explanation. Everyone here has their own posting style. Can I help it if mine isn't exactly the same as yours?
Which reminds me:
You asked me this:
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
And I asked you if you could point out where I'd asked you to convert your view.
You never responded.
Are you able to point out where I've asked you to convert your view?
| 240 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:25:01am |
| 241 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:28:31am |
re: #224 Obdicut
If you understand it, why do you continue to insist that those using it are doing so for emotional impact?
Use of the word "emotional" makes you emo, but not everyone has that problem.
These are emotional topics. Debbie Schlussel wrote a very emotional post.
This happens on the internet. Were it strictly a matter of historical significance, one could just reference our own history.
Who are, amazingly, quite similar to Nazis in many ways, especially when they advocate genocide.
Xenophobe nutbag history in the US predates the Nazis by a longshot.
| 243 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:29:16am |
Kitty cat named after the Führer...
She is cute, cuddly and very affectionate. Sadly, there’s a downside.
She also bears an uncanny resemblance to Adolf Hitler.
This six-week-old puss has been named Kitler by staff at Wood Green Animal Shelter in Godmanchester, Cambridgeshire, who took her in after she was found abandoned at a roadside.
| 244 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:29:56am |
re: #235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Just read through the post for the explanation. Everyone here has their own posting style. Can I help it if mine isn't exactly the same as yours?
Again, I found disagreement and explanation of disagreement, but not an explanation of why the argument itself was ridiculous. Not that I want to hear it, I've become bored with this whole topic. If anything, this may become an argument against using the Nazi comparisons: you'll spend more time fighting it out with people who find them inappropriate. ;)
| 245 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:30:58am |
re: #241 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Use of the word "emotional" makes you emo, but not everyone has that problem.
No, it's just that you continue to ignore the actual point I'm making: the emotional impact is actually what interferes with its use as analogy, rather than being the point of it. For me, anyway, and, I suspect, for Sergey.
Xenophobe nutbag history in the US predates the Nazis by a longshot.
Yes, it does. Why is that relevant?
| 246 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:31:31am |
To make one last point, people should not assume that the comparison is always to the post-mass murder Nazis. I find Hamas to be Nazi-like, as in, 1930s Nazi-like. Again, sue me.
| 247 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:31:52am |
re: #244 Sergey Romanov
If anything, this may become an argument against using the Nazi comparisons: you'll spend more time fighting it out with people who find them inappropriate. ;)
Yeah, that's why I don't use them. People immediately begin to push back against it-- I think, based on what OhCrap is saying, on the assumption that it's being used as a cheap smear rather than an actual reference.
So it's really not worth it.
| 248 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:33:07am |
re: #246 Sergey Romanov
To make one last point, people should not assume that the comparison is always to the post-mass murder Nazis. I find Hamas to be Nazi-like, as in, 1930s Nazi-like. Again, sue me.
Yeah, I think that's part of it; people who study the Nazis don't think about them just as the end-state Nazis.
And yes, Hamas is very Nazi-like, especially in the way they came to power, and in the way they're capitalizing on already-existing racism/bigotry in their society.
| 249 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:33:08am |
re: #237 Obdicut
Who is being asked to shut up. I'm sorry, that sentence in particular really confused me.
Don't be confused. Try this: Everyone calling the other a Nazi makes that claim, that "the nazis did this and that and so does this person, so shut up."
I think you've done a very poor job of explaining why it's lazy.
Well, I think you're insistent on pretending not to understand why calling Debbie Schlussel "Goebbels" is bad form, on many levels, the main ones of which you yourself agree with. I think you are defending a position you yourself have said you don't even support.
Does that make it so?
Why are you doing that?
| 250 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:33:35am |
re: #246 Sergey Romanov
To make one last point, people should not assume that the comparison is always to the post-mass murder Nazis. I find Hamas to be Nazi-like, as in, 1930s Nazi-like. Again, sue me.
How about some tea?
Image: ck_hitler_lg.jpg
| 251 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:35:04am |
I have to go to Canton this week. I'll be wearing my seat belt and driving slightly under the speed limit:
Second Video Emerges Of Hot-Tempered Canton Police Officer
[Link: www.pixiq.com...]
Like the video that emerged earlier this month (second half of story), Harless can be heard threatening to kill the driver because of the gun that was found.Unlike the last video, it is not clear whether the driver had a concealed weapons permit.
But the one thing that is clear is that Harless has a very hot temper and does nothing to deescalate a potential violent situation.
Here is just a small sample of what Harless told the man he pulled over.
"Do not move a muscle or I will put you in the grave."
"I’ll shoot you in the face and I’ll go to sleep tonight."
| 252 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:35:37am |
| 253 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:36:41am |
re: #249 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Don't be confused. Try this: Everyone calling the other a Nazi makes that claim, that "the nazis did this and that and so does this person, so shut up."
Oh, you mean if you're personally, in an internet discussion, calling someone else who is actually there a Nazi, rather than what we're talking about, which is someone using a Nazi reference for Debbie Schussel, who isn't part of the discussion?
Well, I think you're insistent on pretending not to understand why calling Debbie Schlussel "Goebbels" is bad form, on many levels, the main ones of which you yourself agree with.
Well, thank you for honestly admitting that you are claiming I'm 'pretending'.
I think you are defending a position you yourself have said you don't even support.
I'm saying that the comparison of people who act like Nazis or hold positions like the Nazis to the Nazis would be useful, if people such as yourself didn't always associate such comparisons with their more illogical, cheaper, and emotional variety.
Why are you doing that?
Why am I doing what?
| 254 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:37:00am |
re: #244 Sergey Romanov
Again, I found disagreement and explanation of disagreement, but not an explanation of why the argument itself was ridiculous. Not that I want to hear it, I've become bored with this whole topic. If anything, this may become an argument against using the Nazi comparisons: you'll spend more time fighting it out with people who find them inappropriate. ;)
OTC, someone here who also finds it inappropriate is the one struggling the most.
So take it up with him.
It was originally a very small point, along the lines of why you don't think calling her a "bitch" is appropriate. Well, I don't think calling her Goebbels is appropriate, either, for multiple reasons.
Other people disagree with varying reasons/intensity. Big effing deal.
And yet, three hours later...
| 255 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:37:02am |
re: #252 Sergey Romanov
What r u, a Hitler fan? /
Yes.
Looks good on the floor.
Image: funny_hitler_rug.jpg
| 256 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:37:15am |
Let's pick someone else from history who committed genocide and use that instead of the "Nz" word.
There are many too choose from.
| 257 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:37:25am |
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:38:40am |
re: #251 RogueOne
Put a Smith and Wesson bumper sticker in your window, though.
| 259 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:38:49am |
| 260 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:39:01am |
re: #250 Varek Raith
How about some tea?
Image: ck_hitler_lg.jpg
zombie-hitler tea, the new nestea trial-brand.
| 261 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:39:08am |
re: #236 NJDhockeyfan
We should send Arizona Sherrif Joe Arpaio over there to straighten things out for them...
| 262 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:40:14am |
I love idiot douchebags that stop at every house on the block because they can't/won't read an address.
| 263 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:40:19am |
| 264 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:40:24am |
re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Too? Too?
Fuck.
Sounds like a hot new single.
"And coming in at #1 on the Billboard charts is "Too Too Fuck" by Fat Bastard and the Vegetarians. This one's smoking, folks!"
| 265 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:40:59am |
| 266 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:41:00am |
re: #261 ralphieboy
We should send Arizona Sherrif Joe Arpaio over there to straighten things out for them...
+1 for sending Sheriff Joe to an Iranian prison.
| 267 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:41:12am |
re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Let's pick someone else from history who committed genocide and use that instead of the "Nz" word.
There are many too choose from.
Idi Amin Dada!
| 268 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:41:29am |
re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Let's pick someone else from history who committed genocide and use that instead of the "Nz" word.
There are many too choose from.
Debbie is such a Mladic!
| 269 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:41:53am |
| 270 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:42:58am |
| 271 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:43:32am |
Hitler reacts to the news that Osama bin Laden was killed
| 273 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:45:14am |
| 274 |
Varek Raith Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:46:28am |
re: #273 Sergey Romanov
Too-too is Russian for choo-choo.
I don't know why I wrote that.
Image: memes-in-soviet-russia-do-soviet-russia-jokes-tell-you.jpg
| 277 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:49:38am |
Walt Disney Cartoon - Hitler's Children Education For Death
| 278 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:50:12am |
re: #268 Sergey Romanov
Debbie is such a Mladic!
Hey, you know what group Mladic's views remind me of?
/
| 279 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:50:50am |
re: #253 Obdicut
Oh, you mean if you're personally, in an internet discussion, calling someone else who is actually there a Nazi, rather than what we're talking about, which is someone using a Nazi reference for Debbie Schussel, who isn't part of the discussion?
Yeah, you don't understand at all. That didn't even make sense.
Well, thank you for honestly admitting that you are claiming I'm 'pretending'.
Last hour, I didn't. But the more you contradict yourself the more it appears you're just desperate to win some argument on the internet.
I'm saying that the comparison of people who act like Nazis or hold positions like the Nazis to the Nazis would be useful, if people such as yourself didn't always associate such comparisons with their more illogical, cheaper, and emotional variety.
You need to make up your mind.
We both agree against using Nazi analogies "at almost any point" (your #175). We've been doing this for 3 hours, now.
But now you are saying, "the comparison of people who act like Nazis or hold positions like the Nazis to the Nazis would be useful, if people such as yourself didn't always associate such comparisons with their more illogical, cheaper, and emotional variety."
So which is it?
| 280 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:50:52am |
| 281 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:51:30am |
| 282 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:53:03am |
| 283 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:54:14am |
| 284 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:54:33am |
| 285 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:54:46am |
| 286 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:54:49am |
re: #279 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, you don't understand at all. That didn't even make sense.
Why are you talking about people being told to shut up after having been compared to a Nazi, in a thread where no one has been told to shut up, and no one present in the thread has been compared to a Nazi?
Last hour, I didn't. But the more you contradict yourself the more it appears you're just desperate to win some argument on the internet.
Can you explain why this applies to me, but not to you?
We both agree against using Nazi analogies "at almost any point" (your #175). We've been doing this for 3 hours, now.
But now you are saying, "the comparison of people who act like Nazis or hold positions like the Nazis to the Nazis would be useful, if people such as yourself didn't always associate such comparisons with their more illogical, cheaper, and emotional variety."
So which is it?
It's both. I'm against using them because it leads to endless discussions like this with people who aren't willing to or capable of distinguishing between an ahistorical and emotional use of the Nazi analogy with one that has actual meaning and reason.
By the way, for the third time, you said this:
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
Can you or can you not point out where I required you to convert your view to be precisely in line with mine?
| 287 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:55:44am |
| 288 |
NJDhockeyfan Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:56:04am |
re: #282 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Ol' fd up classic...
[Video]
A classic? How about this one...
| 289 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 5:57:27am |
I'd like to coin a new internet law:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of some person in the thread adopting a stance that replicates that of the Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%).
| 290 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:03:52am |
In last night's music thread, b_sharp got me thinking of the Cowboy Junkies. What a great song this is...
| 291 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:05:21am |
| 292 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:05:42am |
re: #286 Obdicut
Why are you talking about people being told to shut up after having been compared to a Nazi, in a thread where no one has been told to shut up, and no one present in the thread has been compared to a Nazi?
Nobody has been told to shut up, so just relax.
Can you explain why this applies to me, but not to you?
I suppose because I acknowledge we agree on why not to call people Nazis. Or at least we did. Back when you said you don't, yourself.
Swell. Neither do I. You've shifted that view, though. I say it's in an effort to score a point, and at this point has nothing whatsoever to do with the topic from 3 hours ago.
It's both. I'm against using them because it leads to endless discussions like this with people who aren't willing to or capable of distinguishing between an ahistorical and emotional use of the Nazi analogy with one that has actual meaning and reason.
By the way, for the third time, you said this:
Can you or can you not point out where I required you to convert your view to be precisely in line with mine?
For the 17th time, we basically agree on this issue.
You're not going to get me to rationalize calling Debbie Schlussel or anyone like her "Goebbels" as a good idea. I have multiple, personal reasons for not doing so. You seem to yourself, but for the sake of this thread...agree with them, agree with only some of them, agree with none of them. It doesn't matter.
It's just not going to happen, whatever knots you twist yourself in, in this strange effort.
| 293 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:07:58am |
re: #291 Obdicut
I'm listening to Come Calling (his song) now..
| 294 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:08:24am |
re: #289 Obdicut
I'd like to coin a new internet law:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of some person in the thread adopting a stance that replicates that of the Nazis or Hitler approaches 1 (100%).
What's this new internet law based on?
Can you give an example?
| 295 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:09:29am |
What pisses me off is when my house was broken into, they stole my CD player with my Cowboy Junkies and 10,000 Maniacs CDs in it. Fuckers.
| 296 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:09:44am |
re: #288 NJDhockeyfan
Lol I remember watching that in syndication.
| 297 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:11:13am |
re: #290 Cannadian Club Akbar
In last night's music thread, b_sharp got me thinking of the Cowboy Junkies. What a great song this is...
[Video]
My favorite Cowboy song:
| 298 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:11:20am |
GOProud and Birchers ousted as CPAC co-sponsors (David Horowitz survives vote)
Long considered a fringe group, the John Birch Society’s sensationalist accusations (such as saying Dwight Eisenhower was a “dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist conspiracy“) once prompted William F. Buckley to effectively banish the group from the conservative movement.Various blocs of CPAC board members find both GOProud and the Birchers highly offensive — and for entirely different reasons.
| 299 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:11:39am |
re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar
What pisses me off is when my house was broken into, they stole my CD player with my Cowboy Junkies and 10,000 Maniacs CDs in it. Fuckers.
Someone did you a favor. You owe them a thank-you card.
| 300 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:15:44am |
There needs to be an IM feature added. I had to bite my tongue on the best insult because it would have offended everyone but the intended recipient. Hurts my feelings.
| 301 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:15:58am |
re: #292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Nobody has been told to shut up, so just relax.
I'm not concerned about whether or not anyone has been told to shut up. I'm asking why you brought up the concept, since it doesn't seem to apply here.
I suppose because I acknowledge we agree on why not to call people Nazis. Or at least we did. Back when you said you don't, yourself.
No, we don't. You think that we shouldn't do it for a panoply of reasons that I'm not sure I fully understand, but that include wanting to use analogies closer to home and thinking that the phrase is used as an emotional call-out. I think that we shouldn't in general because some people are incapable of distinguishing between the times when it's being used as a historical reference or an emotional attack. In that regard, I'm actually replicating Godwin's position.
For the 17th time, we basically agree on this issue.
No, we don't agree that I asked you to convert your view, as you claimed I did.
In the course of this thread, you've asked why I'm insisting you convert your view (despite no having done so), you've claimed that I'm lying-- sorry, 'pretending', implied I'm contradicting myself, called me defensive, told me to relax, etc. etc. This is kind of tiresome, and should not play a part in any actual argument.
The point I'm making is actually, as I said above, the same one that Godwin made: casual references and comparisons to Hitler and the Nazis are bad precisely because it takes away from the legitimacy of times when the comparison is apt, such as with Hamas, Mladic, or, indeed, Shussel's views on what should be done with Muslims.
However, I go a step further than Godwin, and say that because of people who are incapable, for whatever reason, of distinguishing those apt times from the inappropriate times, and who interpret every comparison as an inapt one, I avoid the analogies completely.
In this case, I'm defending the appropriateness of Sergey's analogy even when I wouldn't have used it myself (because it leads to these boring discussions), partially because I fully think that advocating the genocide of an entire group is quite Nazi-like and so the analogy is fine, and partially because Sergey is a noted anti-Holocaust Denier researcher, and it pains me to see people ignoring what he has to say on the subject by broad application of simplistic internet rules.
| 302 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:16:19am |
re: #299 RogueOne
Someone did you a favor. You owe them a thank-you card.
I was in a mellow mood. Otherwise it would have been my TOOL collection.
| 303 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:17:10am |
re: #300 RogueOne
There needs to be an IM feature added. I had to bite my tongue on the best insult because it would have offended everyone but the intended recipient. Hurts my feelings.
Chicken shit.
/
| 304 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:18:45am |
re: #294 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What's this new internet law based on?
Observation, as was Godwins. Given that it's stated as 'approaching 100%', Godwin's law was always tongue-in-cheek; it's an unprovable assertion. You do get that, right?
Can you give an example?
Just one example of someone on some thread on the internet holding a position that's similar to that of Hitler or the Nazis? Sure. Debbie Shussel's position that all Muslims should be killed, which is similar to Hitler's (final) position that all Jews should be killed.
That one was pretty easy, since it involved Debbie Shussel, though.
| 305 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:19:28am |
re: #303 Cannadian Club Akbar
Chicken shit.
/
I've learned that innocent sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect....and some people are sensitive. I'm learning to take their concerns and feelings into consideration when posting. I'm growing as a person and becoming a better member of our rainbow covered planet.
| 306 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:21:13am |
re: #305 RogueOne
I've learned that innocent sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect...and some people are sensitive. I'm learning to take their concerns and feelings into consideration when posting. I'm growing as a person and becoming a better member of our rainbow covered planet.
Ok. Can I get you a tampon?
/
| 307 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:21:46am |
re: #305 RogueOne
I've learned that innocent sarcasm is sometimes hard to detect...and some people are sensitive. I'm learning to take their concerns and feelings into consideration when posting. I'm growing as a person and becoming a better member of our rainbow covered planet.
Pussy.
| 308 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:22:33am |
| 309 |
wee fury Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:25:15am |
| 310 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:25:41am |
Heh. How about the Jorge Louis Borges version of Godwin's law?
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of some person in the thread referencing Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius approaches 1 (100%).
| 311 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:26:59am |
re: #310 Obdicut
Heh. How about the Jorge Louis Borges version of Godwin's law?
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of some person in the thread referencing Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius approaches 1 (100%).
You're too optimistic. ;)
| 312 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:28:22am |
re: #311 Sergey Romanov
You're too optimistic. ;)
Heh. It's just as true as Godwin's, just with a much shallower slope.
Maybe I should use the Library of Babel instead, to get the recursive point across.
| 313 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:28:48am |
BTW, Debbie updated that page:
Rot In Hell, Osama Bin Laden. One down, 1.8 billion to go. . . many of ‘em inside U.S. borders, with the U.S. government at all levels kissing their asses. [Despite #HAMAS terrorist co-conspirator CAIR Action Network's claims to the contrary, I never called for killing 1.8 billion Muslims. Try reading, liars. When 1.8 billion Muslims stop supporting HAMAS and Hezbollah and Islamic Jihad and the Muslim Brotherhood, etc., then we will have succeeded. But that won't happen.]
| 314 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:30:11am |
The witch hunt continues....
Issa launches investigation into Obama's new fuel economy standards
House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) launched an investigation Friday into a series of closed-door meetings between Obama administration officials and major automakers that resulted in beefed-up vehicle fuel economy standards.
...
n the letters, which were obtained by The Hill, Issa says the administration’s efforts to negotiate the fuel economy standards “raise serious concerns.” The new rules, which were announced Friday by President Obama, will also limit consumer choice, Issa says.“I am concerned about the agreements lack of transparency, the failure to conduct an open rulemaking process, as well as the potential for vehicle cost increases on consumers, and negative impact on American jobs,” the letters say.
...
The plan, Obama said, is “the single most important step we’ve ever taken as a nation to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.”
| 315 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:30:13am |
re: #313 Sergey Romanov
Heh. Because when someone dies, and someone says "one down, x to go", obviously they meant they hope X other people change their views.
That's leaving aside the demonstrably false claim that 1.8 billion Muslims support Hamas and Hezbollah, of course.
| 316 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:30:26am |
re: #313 Sergey Romanov
Yeah, we can't read. How Goebbelsian.
| 317 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:31:09am |
re: #314 Killgore Trout
Why isn't Issa concerned about how many pieces of legislation are actually written by lobbyists?
Hell, I bet he's submitted bills like that.
| 318 |
Kronocide Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:31:22am |
re: #212 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Debbie Schlussel isn't a Nazi. I don't know why it's so important to label her as one.
No, she's a fascist. She can't be a Nazi until Muslims are deported or murdered.
The last several days I've had Radiohead lyrics in my head specifically from all the ABB commentary on the blogs:
When I am king you will be first against the wall
Schlussel would never fire a rifle but would be writing OpEds justifying lining up xxxx against the wall.
We really are on the brink here. This is not a Godwin invocation.
| 319 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:34:11am |
This brings a question to my mind. They call themselves freedom fighters. I guess so, in the sense of "fighting the [i.e. against] freedom".
| 320 |
Kronocide Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:35:06am |
re: #315 Obdicut
Heh. Because when someone dies, and someone says "one down, x to go", obviously they meant they hope X other people change their views.
That's leaving aside the demonstrably false claim that 1.8 billion Muslims support Hamas and Hezbollah, of course.
OMFG.
Is there some contest going on to out nutter each other on the RW blogs? This is insane.
| 321 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:35:32am |
re: #301 Obdicut
I'm not concerned about whether or not anyone has been told to shut up. I'm asking why you brought up the concept, since it doesn't seem to apply here.
No, we don't. You think that we shouldn't do it for a panoply of reasons that I'm not sure I fully understand, but that include wanting to use analogies closer to home and thinking that the phrase is used as an emotional call-out. I think that we shouldn't in general because some people are incapable of distinguishing between the times when it's being used as a historical reference or an emotional attack. In that regard, I'm actually replicating Godwin's position.
So you are now a Godwin literalist? Lol!
No, we don't agree that I asked you to convert your view, as you claimed I did.
Wordsmithing. I didn't claim you asked me that.
You wondered why I'd suggest that was your goal, and I think it still holds true.
You're simply out to win some argument, even if it means contradicting your own stated position, or distorting mine.
In the course of this thread, you've asked why I'm insisting you convert your view
Lol I did not ask any such thing.
(cont'd)
| 323 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:37:33am |
re: #314 Killgore Trout
The witch hunt continues...
Issa launches investigation into Obama's new fuel economy standards
...
Yes. Because better fuel economy is BAD for Americans! We want people to spend more money at the pump! We want to stay HIGHLY dependent on OPEC!!11ty Free MARKET!!11ty
| 324 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:37:52am |
re: #321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
So you are now a Godwin literalist? Lol!
I don't know what you mean by a Godwin literalist. You were the one who brought up Godwin's law.
Lol I did not ask any such thing.
Here's what you said:
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
Why did you ask that of me, if you didn't think I was insisting you convert your view?
| 325 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:39:39am |
re: #317 Obdicut
Why isn't Issa concerned about how many pieces of legislation are actually written by lobbyists?
Hell, I bet he's submitted bills like that.
Of course he's just fishing for a reason to scuttle the agreement that would lower oil consumption to make the oil companies happy.
| 326 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:41:35am |
re: #304 Obdicut
Godwin's law was always tongue-in-cheek; it's an unprovable assertion. You do get that, right?
I said as much in #231, or did you miss it, in your hasty rush to score a point?
Just one example of someone on some thread on the internet holding a position that's similar to that of Hitler or the Nazis? Sure. Debbie Shussel's position that all Muslims should be killed, which is similar to Hitler's (final) position that all Jews should be killed.
That one was pretty easy, since it involved Debbie Shussel, though.
Here in the real world, there are plenty of them, it's true.
| 327 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:42:30am |
re: #321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
You're simply out to win some argument, even if it means contradicting your own stated position, or distorting mine.
By the way: Attempting to be psychic via TPC/IP is always a stupid idea. I fully believe you're attempting to represent your views honestly and forthrightly, though I have some problems with your style. Why on earth can't you accord me the same respect?
| 328 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:45:51am |
re: #326 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I said as much in #231, or did you miss it, in your hasty rush to score a point?
Well, then feel free to interpret my law in the same vein; I'm not sure why you'd ask me for proof for something unproveable.
The point I'm making about Godwin is that he's far closer to my side of the argument than yours. He was noting that casual analogies to the Nazis are in preponderance. He was not saying that legitimate comparisons to Nazis or their ideologies shouldn't be made.
Those who advocate genocide are Nazi-like. They may be more like other genocidal nutjobs, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they are Nazi-like.
| 329 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:49:44am |
re: #324 Obdicut
I don't know what you mean by a Godwin literalist. You were the one who brought up Godwin's law.
Yet, now you claim to "replicate" it, even as you acknowledge its tongue in cheek nature, something I did many moons ago?
Why did you ask that of me, if you didn't think I was insisting you convert your view?
Groan, we just went over this.
You're not going to get me to think calling DS "Goebbels" is appropriate or a good idea. I disagreed with Sergey's usage, but didn't attack him for it; yet you've chosen to go on the defensive, basing your reasoning on crap I didn't even say.
My views on why dropping Nazi references shouldn't be done just don't match up, precisely (thus the use of that term.) I don't have a problem reconciling that, but looks like you do.
| 330 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:49:58am |
re: #325 Killgore Trout
Of course he's just fishing for a reason to scuttle the agreement that would lower oil consumption to make the oil companies happy.
It's pathetic to argue that the oil industry is truly a free market. OPEC is a downright monopoly. American oil companies benefit from the government tit through tax incentives and tax breaks; assistance through the BLM, Department of Interior, etc.; defense spending to provide security for Gulf oil (i.e. OPEC); and so on. I would like to see how much tax money we spend in order to provide the oil that eventually powers our vehicles. I'm sure that it's in the billions. If it were a real free market gasoline would probably be around 10 to 12 dollars a gallon.
| 331 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:50:20am |
On a totally different topic, this is how foolish those who support austerity programs and cutting the amount we borrow are:
[Link: modeledbehavior.com...]
Now is one of the absolutely cheapest points in US history for the US to borrow money. It would make far more sense to borrow a shitton of money now and spend it on infrastructure improvements than to pay for those improvements over time with tax revenue.
| 332 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:52:34am |
re: #329 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yet, now you claim to "replicate" it, even as you acknowledge its tongue in cheek nature, something I did many moons ago?
Yes. It is also tongue-in-cheek in my replication. I would have thought that was obvious.
Groan, we just went over this.
No, we didn't. You haven't explained why you asked me, directly, this:
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
That very clearly implies that I hold the position that you must convert your view to be precisely in mine with yours.
If it doesn't, then explain how it doesn't.
| 333 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:53:20am |
re: #39 Obdicut
Really, her article is so beyond the pale I don't know what to call her. Insulting the dead. Comparing them to inhuman, evil beings. Saying that they deserved to die and she feels no sympathy for them.
It's not a surprise, given that her response to Osama Bin Laden's death was to openly hope for the death of every Muslim man, woman, and child in the entire world.
Genocidal freak.
Islam isn't race, so genocide does quite work. But she did call for the death of a religion and its adherents and that makes her filth.
| 334 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:53:39am |
re: #331 Obdicut
It would also make sense for the government to borrow money and spend it at an enormous clip because it's the velocity of money that's most important for getting out of a recession, and there's many programs-- like many of those that the GOP wants to cut-- that are the absolute best for that application, like food stamps, aid to single mothers, etc.
| 335 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:54:47am |
| 336 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:55:02am |
re: #333 Dark_Falcon
Islam isn't race, so genocide does quite work. But she did call for the death of a religion and its adherents and that makes her filth.
Yeah, I'm not sure what you'd call calling for the death of everyone of a specific religion. I guess it's a form of democide. However, the Nazis certainly would have treated a non-ethnically-Jewish person who practiced Judaism the same as they did an ethnic Jew, so I think that the term is broad enough to cover it in this usage.
| 337 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:55:10am |
re: #330 Gus 802
It's pathetic to argue that the oil industry is truly a free market. OPEC is a downright monopoly. American oil companies benefit from the government tit through tax incentives and tax breaks; assistance through the BLM, Department of Interior, etc.; defense spending to provide security for Gulf oil (i.e. OPEC); and so on. I would like to see how much tax money we spend in order to provide the oil that eventually powers our vehicles. I'm sure that it's in the billions. If it were a real free market gasoline would probably be around 10 to 12 dollars a gallon.
Also add in the cost of roads and highways which are a massive part of the public infrastructure required to drive said vehicles. Part of which is payed through fuel taxes payed by the consumer and not the oil companies. It's the people that are supporting this mode of transportation. Always have. The oil companies are basically a mooch in the general scheme of things and they have more money than God which they make through profits supported by "the people".
| 338 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:55:40am |
re: #333 Dark_Falcon
Islam isn't race, so genocide does quite work. But she did call for the death of a religion and its adherents and that makes her filth.
Look up the genocide def, DF.
| 339 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:55:44am |
re: #335 Sergey Romanov
I'm delaying running an errand returning a bunch of clothes. And going out into the heat of the outside. Yuch.
| 340 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:55:44am |
Anywho. I see I walked into a squabble.
Gobbles. Minister of poultry.
//
| 341 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:56:29am |
Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
| 342 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:56:31am |
| 343 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:56:51am |
re: #327 Obdicut
By the way: Attempting to be psychic via TPC/IP is always a stupid idea.
Shoving words in my mouth via browser and ISP ain't too bright, either.
I fully believe you're attempting to represent your views honestly and forthrightly, though I have some problems with your style. Why on earth can't you accord me the same respect?
You may not like my "style", "manner" or any of those things, and I disagree with some of your line of argument in this particular conversation. But I have not disrespected you. In fact, I'm disappointed to read a line like that from you.
You don't have to fully agree with my views, and that's fine with me.
It's just a disagreement on a point. They happen on the internet.
| 344 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:57:51am |
My neighbor, who wears coke-bottle glasses, is outside in shorts w/black socks and mowing his yard with a weed-eater. I'm going to have to move.
| 345 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:58:39am |
re: #314 Killgore Trout
The witch hunt continues...
Issa launches investigation into Obama's new fuel economy standards
Well, Justice handed Issa an opening with Operation Fast and Furious, and he's running with it. The fact that that operation was a fuck-up from the get go is causing Issa to look into other closed-door matters to see what can be dug up. This particular avenue, however, is unlikely to yield anything. At most he'll try to spin his findings into an "OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!1", but he shouldn't even do that. It'll just waste credibility he needs.
| 346 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:59:16am |
re: #343 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Shoving words in my mouth via browser and ISP ain't too bright, either.
But I haven't. You've refused to explain some words-- these, in particular:
Tell me why I must convert my view to be precisely in line with yours, even though no one's requiring that of you.
It is not my fault you said that.
But I have not disrespected you. In fact, I'm disappointed to read a line like that from you.
By claiming that I'm 'pretending' to hold a position I don't actually believe in, you're claiming I'm being dishonest. By claiming I'm only arguing to win an argument on the internet, you are definitely disrespecting me.
If you don't think those things are disrespectful-- implying dishonesty and pettiness-- then I don't really know what to say. If that's not disrespect to you than we have immensely different standards of behavior.
| 347 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:59:18am |
re: #336 Obdicut
Not any Judaism. I think they would spare practitioners of non-rabbinical forms. Karaites and such.
| 348 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 6:59:49am |
re: #344 RogueOne
My neighbor, who wears coke-bottle glasses, is outside in shorts w/black socks and mowing his yard with a weed-eater. I'm going to have to move.
Bubbles is about the only reliable member of that bunch of jackoffs.
| 349 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:00:26am |
re: #332 Obdicut
Yes. It is also tongue-in-cheek in my replication. I would have thought that was obvious.
No, it wasn't obvious, at all.
If it doesn't, then explain how it doesn't.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 350 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:00:31am |
re: #347 Sergey Romanov
Not any Judaism. I think they would spare practitioners of non-rabbinical forms. Karaites and such.
Yeah, but they'd try to kill Walter Sobchak, the bastards.
| 351 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:00:45am |
"At the same time, the Nazis had serious reservations towards the Karaites. SS Obergruppenfuhrer Gottlob Berger wrote on November 24, 1944:
Their Mosaic religion is unwelcome. However, on grounds of race, language and religious dogma... Discrimination against the Karaites is unacceptable, in consideration of their racial kinsmen [Berger was here referring to the Crimean Tatars]. However, so as not to infringe the unified anti-Jewish orientation of the nations led by Germany, it is suggested that this small group be given the opportunity of a separate existence (for example, as a closed construction or labor battalion)..."
| 353 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:02:03am |
Chart of the day: Debt Ceiling Increases by President
Image: omb-graph-on-debt-ceiling-use.jpg
| 354 |
darthstar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:03:12am |
I see we're all having fun with the internet's favorite topic, so I'll be on my way. I have the fun challenge of getting two medium sized dogs, a travel bag, and my wife's bicycle for her triathlon tomorrow into/onto the Smart Car today...and I have to go in there somewhere too. It should be interesting driving that thing with a bike rack on the back.
| 355 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:03:47am |
re: #349 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That's not an explanation, at all.
My views on why dropping Nazi references shouldn't be done just don't match up, precisely (thus the use of that term.) I don't have a problem reconciling that, but looks like you do.
Yes, you and I think differently. That's why we're having an argument. Why you think that means that I'm insisting that you convert your views, I have no idea.
You seem to be saying that because I'm arguing my point, I'm trying to force you to convert your views. I am trying to convince you-- and anyone else reading-- of the correctness of my argument. Is that what you mean?
| 356 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:04:12am |
re: #346 Obdicut
But I haven't.
You basically started out doing that, defending Sergey from offenses never committed.
You've refused to explain some words-- these, in particular:
9_9
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 357 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:04:30am |
re: #345 Dark_Falcon
Well, Justice handed Issa an opening with Operation Fast and Furious, and he's running with it. The fact that that operation was a fuck-up from the get go is causing Issa to look into other closed-door matters to see what can be dug up. This particular avenue, however, is unlikely to yield anything. At most he'll try to spin his findings into an "OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!1", but he shouldn't even do that. It'll just waste credibility he needs.
I have doubts about the Fast an Furious thing. The GOP is more concerned with discrediting the investigation because what we learned about gun trafficking.
| 358 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:05:38am |
re: #356 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
You basically started out doing that, defending Sergey from offenses never committed.
Can you demonstrate that, please? You mean where I said that this wasn't a casual use of the Nazi analogy?
| 359 |
darthstar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:07:10am |
re: #357 Killgore Trout
I have doubts about the Fast an Furious thing. The GOP is more concerned with discrediting the investigation because what we learned about gun trafficking.
And Issa has been dropping investigations lately because they "don't fit the narrative" (his last big investigation of Democratic corruption turned up no corrupt Democrats, but id did uncover a couple of corrupt Republicans and he had to hit the brakes fast)
| 360 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:07:55am |
What have I wrought! /
| 361 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:08:00am |
re: #357 Killgore Trout
I have doubts about the Fast an Furious thing. The GOP is more concerned with discrediting the investigation because what we learned about gun trafficking.
Pretty much. The GOP doesn't care if it worked. Or if it could work. All they want is to make the Obama administration look bad. It's all cynical partisan politics. During the Bush White House days we would have been calling Issa and the rest of the GOP "un-American" and "treasonous". They've essentially become the right wing version of Code Pink. While the Democrats actually learned right away to shun the Code Pinkers and Move On (for the most part) the GOP has actually embraced their reactionary base and see it as way towards victory in 2012.
So to repeat. The GOP doesn't care if it worked. Or if it could work. All they want is to make the Obama administration look bad. It's all cynical partisan politics.
| 362 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:08:18am |
re: #330 Gus 802
Do not forget that US oil companies regularly meet at the White House to plan our national energy strategy.
Because these talks are highly sensitive, they are also classified.
What do you call it when memebers of an industry meet in secret to plan stragety?
Starts with car- and ends with -tel...
| 363 |
darthstar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:10:45am |
Sorry...got distracted by non-hitler topic... Here's a good theme song for everyone though...enjoy.
| 365 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:11:22am |
re: #355 Obdicut
That's not an explanation, at all.
Yes, you and I think differently. That's why we're having an argument.
So what?
People on the internet think differently, have clashing styles, even agree on many points and differ on others.
b
f
d
Why you think that means that I'm insisting that you convert your views, I have no idea.
You seem to be saying that because I'm arguing my point, I'm trying to force you to convert your views. I am trying to convince you-- and anyone else reading-- of the correctness of my argument. Is that what you mean?
Don't bring "anyone else reading" into it -- your beef right now is with ME.
To reiterate: you're not capable of forcing me into anything. 5 hours of going round and round about virtually nothing should be your indicator.
Yes, you have a variant position from mine.
Big deal. Your arguments in this thread are not only a defense of a throwaway comment by another poster, they're also the vindication of Godwin's Law, lol an internet joke that's not even a law.
Are you going to quote that sentence again?
| 367 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:12:53am |
I would add another corollary: once Hitler/Nazis have been mentioned in comparison to anyone/thing, the possibility of the thread going off into a tedious tailspin also approaches 100%
| 368 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:14:06am |
re: #357 Killgore Trout
I have doubts about the Fast an Furious thing. The GOP is more concerned with discrediting the investigation because what we learned about gun trafficking.
Untrue. And that goes double since we've learned the FBI, on request from the ATF, cleared gun purchases by convicted felons. So the laws didn't work and the dealers sold the weapons because the ATF wanted the laws to fail and the dealers to sell them. And people got killed. Hell, the ATF didn't even tell Mexico's AG till one of his prosecutors was killed by a gun the ATF let get away. No, Killgore, investigating F&F is entirely legitimate.
| 369 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:15:33am |
re: #358 Obdicut
Can you demonstrate that, please? You mean where I said that this wasn't a casual use of the Nazi analogy?
Your full statement, #301:
"In this case, I'm defending the appropriateness of Sergey's analogy even when I wouldn't have used it myself (because it leads to these boring discussions), partially because I fully think that advocating the genocide of an entire group is quite Nazi-like and so the analogy is fine, and partially because Sergey is a noted anti-Holocaust Denier researcher, and it pains me to see people ignoring what he has to say on the subject by broad application of simplistic internet rules."
| 370 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:16:01am |
re: #362 ralphieboy
Do not forget that US oil companies regularly meet at the White House to plan our national energy strategy.
Because these talks are highly sensitive, they are also classified.
What do you call it when memebers of an industry meet in secret to plan stragety?
Starts with car- and ends with -tel...
The strategic oil reserves... If it were not for the inherent "collectivist" nature of American society the oil industry would be making less profits and hardly able to survive in a truly free market. There is no "free" in the free market of the oil industry. It simply does not exist. It's just another "Gordon Gekko" type propaganda created to make American's feel good or, once again, clueless. And this is not a conspiracy at all. It's how things work in the USA. Bahrain anyone?
| 371 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:16:46am |
Okay,,, it's 10:15 here ,, already hotter than hell,,, been outside for 2 hours now doing yardwork,, BUT
can't mow the backyard yet because the grass is still too wet from the dew,,, SO ,, I have to wait at least another hour which means it will be even FRAKKIN HOTTER
So ,,, your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to entertain me for that hour!!
/
| 372 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:17:56am |
re: #371 sattv4u2
Okay,,, it's 10:15 here ,, already hotter than hell,,, been outside for 2 hours now doing yardwork,, BUT
can't mow the backyard yet because the grass is still too wet from the dew,,, SO ,, I have to wait at least another hour which means it will be even FRAKKIN HOTTER
So ,,, your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to entertain me for that hour!!
/
You can try to sort out the argument Obdicut is having with OCSP.
| 373 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:18:55am |
re: #328 Obdicut
The point I'm making about Godwin is that he's far closer to my side of the argument than yours.
Godwin's Law is no law, it's a joke.
| 374 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:19:00am |
re: #371 sattv4u2
Okay,,, it's 10:15 here ,, already hotter than hell,,, been outside for 2 hours now doing yardwork,, BUT
can't mow the backyard yet because the grass is still too wet from the dew,,, SO ,, I have to wait at least another hour which means it will be even FRAKKIN HOTTER
So ,,, your mission, if you decide to accept it, is to entertain me for that hour!!
/
OK. Let's have a yardcare safety session:
When you're trimming the holly, don't let your left index finger get in front of the guard, slicing through the meat, but missing the bone.
| 375 |
kirkspencer Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:19:15am |
re: #354 darthstar
I see we're all having fun with the internet's favorite topic, so I'll be on my way. I have the fun challenge of getting two medium sized dogs, a travel bag, and my wife's bicycle for her triathlon tomorrow into/onto the Smart Car today...and I have to go in there somewhere too. It should be interesting driving that thing with a bike rack on the back.
Are you sure you shouldn't be putting a car rack on the bike for that combination?
| 376 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:20:19am |
re: #372 Dark_Falcon
You can try to sort out the argument Obdicut is having with OCSP.
Lets do the math
Saturday morning
+
I'm in a good mood
equals
I'LL PASS!!
| 377 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:20:24am |
re: #357 Killgore Trout
I have doubts about the Fast an Furious thing. The GOP is more concerned with discrediting the investigation because what we learned about gun trafficking.
They aided buyers and intentionally let thousands of illegal guns cross the border resulting in the deaths of a couple hundred people on both sides of the border. I think that should be enough to piss off people:
'Fast And Furious' Gun Trafficking Operation Slammed By ATF Agents
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
The operation was "a perfect storm of idiocy," Carlos Canino, a senior ATF agent in Mexico, said in the report. Other current and former ATF agents testified at the hearing that the operation violated basic agency protocols.
It was a plan put together by Mr. Dumb and Mr. Dumber and we need to know who those people were that thought this was brilliant so we can remove them before they come up with another great plan.
| 378 |
kirkspencer Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:20:27am |
re: #374 Decatur Deb
OK. Let's have a yardcare safety session:
When you're trimming the holly, don't let your left index finger get in front of the guard, slicing through the meat, but missing the bone.
Absolutely. If you're going to do it, do it right - get that bone. //
| 379 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:21:19am |
re: #378 kirkspencer
Absolutely. If you're going to do it, do it right - get that bone. //
roasts are always tasier with the bone in
| 380 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:21:25am |
re: #374 Decatur Deb
OK. Let's have a yardcare safety session:
When you're trimming the holly, don't let your left index finger get in front of the guard, slicing through the meat, but missing the bone.
NOW you tell me!!
Honey ,, cancel the call to 911 ,, Decatur told me what to do (albeit, too late!!)
| 381 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:21:43am |
re: #368 Dark_Falcon
Untrue. And that goes double since we've learned the FBI, on request from the ATF, cleared gun purchases by convicted felons. So the laws didn't work and the dealers sold the weapons because the ATF wanted the laws to fail and the dealers to sell them. And people got killed. Hell, the ATF didn't even tell Mexico's AG till one of his prosecutors was killed by a gun the ATF let get away. No, Killgore, investigating F&F is entirely legitimate.
I'm not sure if you have all the facts correct but the fact that both the ATF and FBI use similar techniques shows that it's probably a common procedure in these types of investigations. Sometimes they let the crime (drug sales, gun sales, whatever) happen to see where the trail leads. I haven't been following the story but last I checked it looked to me like the GOP just didn't like the investigations into the gun trade.
| 382 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:22:15am |
re: #377 RogueOne
They aided buyers and intentionally let thousands of illegal guns cross the border resulting in the deaths of a couple hundred people on both sides of the border. I think that should be enough to piss off people:
'Fast And Furious' Gun Trafficking Operation Slammed By ATF Agents
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]It was a plan put together by Mr. Dumb and Mr. Dumber and we need to know who those people were that thought this was brilliant so we can remove them before they come up with another great plan.
Guns don't kill people, Zetas kill people.
| 383 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:22:39am |
re: #373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Godwin's Law is no law, it's a joke.
No, it has value. The Nazi analogy is heavily overused and Godwin's Law is a way to limit it. The problem is that with the Norway massacre we're dealing with a Nazi-type fascist, and those who side with him in part (like Debbie Schussel [spits]) and also using thinking of a type Hitler would have approved of. So its not that Godwin's Law is a joke, it just is mostly inoperative in this particular case.
| 384 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:24:00am |
re: #372 Dark_Falcon
You can try to sort out the argument Obdicut is having with OCSP.
Oh, you should have been around for the "does Santa exist" thread a couple mornings ago.
A bit lighter than this one, though there was a concurrent one on the existence of God.
Today, it's Godwin's Law. I do love the internet.
| 385 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:24:07am |
re: #380 sattv4u2
NOW you tell me!!
Honey ,, cancel the call to 911 ,, Decatur told me what to do (albeit, too late!!)
Did the trimmer trick yesterday. Had the foresight to just marry a nurse.
| 386 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:25:06am |
re: #383 Dark_Falcon
The Nazi analogy is heavily overused and Godwin's Law is a way to limit it.
OTOH,,,, as a way to "win" the debate, even when Godwins law is used properly, some scream about it being used in that situation
(damn ,, did I just get sucked into this debate??)
| 387 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:25:55am |
re: #377 RogueOne
They aided buyers and intentionally let thousands of illegal guns cross the border resulting in the deaths of a couple hundred people on both sides of the border. I think that should be enough to piss off people:
'Fast And Furious' Gun Trafficking Operation Slammed By ATF Agents
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]It was a plan put together by Mr. Dumb and Mr. Dumber and we need to know who those people were that thought this was brilliant so we can remove them before they come up with another great plan.
Then do what Bush would have done. Claim that any public hearings would reveal information sensitive to the operation of existing intelligence activities during a time of war. Then, make everyone that's holding those hearing feel guilty by having surrogate pundits exclaim that those that support such hearings are treasonous and unpatriotic. We are at war damn it!
"//"
| 388 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:26:18am |
re: #385 Decatur Deb
Did the trimmer trick yesterday. Had the foresight to just marry a nurse.
Schmart!!!!
I was about to give up. Took me almost 15 minutes to get it started. I think I "primed" it one too many times,. either that, or it's due for a tune up
| 389 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:26:31am |
re: #386 sattv4u2
(damn ,, did I just get sucked into this debate??)
MWAHAHAHA! Ia ia Cthulhu fhtagn! *runs away crazy-eyed and laughing*
| 390 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:28:13am |
re: #383 Dark_Falcon
No, it has value. The Nazi analogy is heavily overused and Godwin's Law is a way to limit it. The problem is that with the Norway massacre we're dealing with a Nazi-type fascist, and those who side with him in part (like Debbie Schussel [spits]) and also using thinking of a type Hitler would have approved of. So its not that Godwin's Law is a joke, it just is mostly inoperative in this particular case.
My point has been it's not even just Hitler who had that mentality, it's people right here, right now.
I.e. the people --Spencer/Geller/Lind/various rwnj CTs -- Breivik is copy/pasting in the first place. If Ms. Schlussel's name isn't among them, it is now, with that last filthy screed of hers.
| 391 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:28:33am |
re: #381 Killgore Trout
I'm not sure if you have all the facts correct but the fact that both the ATF and FBI use similar techniques shows that it's probably a common procedure in these types of investigations. Sometimes they let the crime (drug sales, gun sales, whatever) happen to see where the trail leads. I haven't been following the story but last I checked it looked to me like the GOP just didn't like the investigations into the gun trade.
The problem is that they weren't trailing the guns. They sometimes followed them to a safehouse, but after that they disappeared till they showed up in Mexico. So all that was proven was that guns were being run into Mexico, which we already knew and which no one denied. The operation provided arms to the Zetas and utterly failed to uncover the network they use to move weapons. That rates a vigorous investigation.
| 392 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:28:43am |
re: #385 Decatur Deb
Did the trimmer trick yesterday. Had the foresight to just marry a nurse.
That guard is there for a reason....government regulation. See what good they are?//
| 393 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:29:50am |
I enjoyed the hitler joke part. Lets do that again.
| 394 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:30:14am |
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of Godwin being mentioned approaches 1 (100%).
| 395 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:32:18am |
Whoa. Wut? A Choctaw just flew by. Kind of low and off to the east. Heading towards San Jose.
| 396 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:32:31am |
| 397 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:33:05am |
re: #365 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
To reiterate: you're not capable of forcing me into anything. 5 hours of going round and round about virtually nothing should be your indicator.
I'm not trying to force you into anything, and I have no clue why you think I am. I have no clue why you think that implying that I'm being dishonest and petty isn't offensive, either. Or why you think that I don't know that Godwin's law is a joke-- albeit a joke with a strong point.
I've made my case perfectly well: Nazi analogies to people who act like Nazis or hold views like the Nazis are perfectly defensible. The reason not to make them is because people will, tiresomely, argue forever against using any Nazi analogies at all, and so the point of the analogy gets lost. You've provided a very thorough demonstration of that.
Next time we talk, try to avoid the frivolous accusations of defensiveness, pretense, and pettiness. It doesn't do anything to strengthen your position.
Now it's time for me to finally run those errands.
| 398 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:33:27am |
re: #395 Gus 802
Whoa. Wut? A Choctaw just flew by. Kind of low and off to the east. Heading towards San Jose.
You just blew their cover!!
/
| 399 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:33:49am |
re: #395 Gus 802
Whoa. Wut? A Choctaw just flew by. Kind of low and off to the east. Heading towards San Jose.
Quick, are there chemtrails? Close the windows.
| 400 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:34:45am |
re: #395 Gus 802
Whoa. Wut? A Choctaw just flew by. Kind of low and off to the east. Heading towards San Jose.
Maybe an airshow?
| 401 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:35:07am |
re: #399 Obdicut
Maybe they're searching for that B-29 carrying 2 A-bombs that crashed last night...
//
| 402 |
darthstar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:35:26am |
re: #373 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Godwin's Law is no law, it's a joke.
Quoted for truth. But even though "Godwin's Law" was penned as an internet joke, it's become as accepted in our vocabulary as Murphy's Law - also not an actual law.
| 403 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:35:33am |
I wonder if 1000 years from now Godwin will be thought of as Adolf's second name.
Like here this piktshe:
| 404 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:37:49am |
re: #391 Dark_Falcon
....after that they disappeared till they showed up in Mexico. So all that was proven was that guns were being run into Mexico, which we already knew and which no one denied.
I seem to recall about 2 years ago Fox and the wingnuts were outraged when the Mexican government was complaining about American guns fueling gang violence in Mexico.
Apr 2, 2009
Fox Report: Mexican guns not from US
| 405 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:38:04am |
re: #403 Sergey Romanov
I wonder if 1000 years from now Godwin will be thought of as Adolf's second name.
Like here this piktshe:
Damn you
I'm in the middle of a book about WW2
You just spoiled the ending!
/
| 406 |
ReamWorks SKG Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:38:36am |
Speaking of Christianity, Greetings from Rome!
Image: 5990221489_1dbbd6249e_b.jpg
We went to the Vatican today, but the Pope wasn't there. I guess he's busy writing his sermon for tomorrow. He has very nice stuff, and a great ceiling!
| 407 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:39:09am |
re: #406 reuven
Speaking of Christianity, Greetings from Rome!
Image: 5990221489_1dbbd6249e_b.jpg
We went to the Vatican today, but the Pope wasn't there. I guess he's busy writing his sermon for tomorrow. He has very nice stuff, and a great ceiling!
Super nice!
| 408 |
darthstar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:39:26am |
| 409 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:40:46am |
re: #404 Killgore Trout
I think there's a big difference between guns in Mexico being "sourced" from the US as opposed to guns in Mexico being "sourced" from the US gov't through some operation the justice dept tried
| 410 |
ReamWorks SKG Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:40:46am |
re: #408 darthstar
You slept with the Pope?
I think I'm too old for him. The Swiss Guards he uses must be between the ages of 18 and 21.
| 411 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:41:39am |
re: #406 reuven
Speaking of Christianity, Greetings from Rome!
Image: 5990221489_1dbbd6249e_b.jpg
We went to the Vatican today, but the Pope wasn't there. I guess he's busy writing his sermon for tomorrow. He has very nice stuff, and a great ceiling!
The hot chick sitting behind you, taking the picture
Did you get her number?
/
| 412 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:41:46am |
re: #400 Dark_Falcon
Maybe an airshow?
Yeah. Just flying by for no particular reason either. They have the Hiller Aviation Museum around here which is mostly a helicopter museum. They had their airshow a couple of week ago. When I first got here I saw a B-24 Liberator fly by. That's been about my limit of warbird viewings. Other than two other modern C-130s, on KC-135 heading NW, 3 Blackhawks heading south along the valley, and too many 737s (MD-80s, FedEx DC-10s, A330, A318/20s) on approach to count. Then there's the training flights that go by during the weekdays which are typically Cessnas. Also some fly bys on July 4th with a bunch of RVs and then there was the Amber Alert which was another helicopter airshow in itself.
| 413 |
ReamWorks SKG Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:41:54am |
He also has a nice Piazza.
| 414 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:43:18am |
re: #413 reuven
He also has a nice Piazza.
The hot chick in the white shorts walking to your right , carrying the kid
Did you get her number?
/
| 415 |
darthstar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:44:06am |
Okay, I've been looking for a way out of this thread and I think I've found it.
Catch you all later.
| 416 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:44:10am |
re: #397 Obdicut
I'm not trying to force you into anything, and I have no clue why you think I am. I have no clue why you think that implying that I'm being dishonest and petty isn't offensive, either. Or why you think that I don't know that Godwin's law is a joke-- albeit a joke with a strong point.
I've made my case perfectly well: Nazi analogies to people who act like Nazis or hold views like the Nazis are perfectly defensible. The reason not to make them is because people will, tiresomely, argue forever against using any Nazi analogies at all, and so the point of the analogy gets lost. You've provided a very thorough demonstration of that.
I see it differently. You have your own POV, I have mine; we don't see precisely eye to eye about calling Debbie Schlussel "Goebbels", and that's just the way the ball bounces.
Next time we talk, try to avoid the frivolous accusations of defensiveness, pretense, and pettiness. It doesn't do anything to strengthen your position.
But I'm not trying to win anything. That, I leave to the folks like yourself, who end up arguing against crap not even said, instead of reading what's been written over, and over, and over again.
So what is gained by traipsing off after some dismissive sentence?
Anybody can pull that old move.
| 417 |
ReamWorks SKG Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:44:28am |
The Colosseum Tour Guide said that the Colosseum was funded with the booty they acquired from looting the second temple, and it was built by slaves they captured in Israel. And then she mentioned that all the marble in the Vatican came from the Colosseum.
It's nice to hear them affirming this after all these years.
| 418 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:44:38am |
re: #414 sattv4u2
The hot chick in the white shorts walking to your right , carrying the kid
Did you get her number?
/
All you can think about are chicks' ... numbers! Yeah, numbers.
| 419 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:44:45am |
re: #404 Killgore Trout
I seem to recall about 2 years ago Fox and the wingnuts were outraged when the Mexican government was complaining about American guns fueling gang violence in Mexico.
Apr 2, 2009
Fox Report: Mexican guns not from US[Video]
The ATF recognized the obvious need of more large caliber weapons in Mexico and set up shop.....
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
The operation, known as “Fast and Furious,” began in 2009 when the bureau essentially began allowing low-level cartel members to buy guns at Arizona gun stores -- the plan was to track the guns and tail the buyers back to their leaders in Mexico.The plan didn't quite work out as expected. According to a report issued by a Republican congressional committee on Tuesday, more than 100 guns from the operation have turned up at crime scenes in Mexico or have been seized from people affiliated with the cartels, and the bureau has allegedly lost track of hundreds of others.
Their next excuse will be they were doing their best to spur the local economy.
| 420 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:45:29am |
re: #404 Killgore Trout
I seem to recall about 2 years ago Fox and the wingnuts were outraged when the Mexican government was complaining about American guns fueling gang violence in Mexico.
Apr 2, 2009
Fox Report: Mexican guns not from US[Video]
Most of the cartel guns aren't from the US. About 20% are, so guns from the US are a factor in the fighting but not the driving factor. And previously the administration had put about a talking point that the guns trafficked in from the US were 70% of the cartels guns. When an error of that magnitude is made, its not be paranoid to ask aloud why it was made.
| 421 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:46:11am |
re: #413 reuven
He also has a nice Piazza.
There's some dude standing in the way in all your pictures.
| 422 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:46:14am |
This moron thinks praying on the street should be illegal.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 423 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:46:49am |
re: #418 Sergey Romanov
All you can think about are chicks' ... numbers! Yeah, numbers.
first things first
| 424 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:47:28am |
re: #417 reuven
And then she mentioned that all the marble in the Vatican came from the Colosseum.
recycling program
| 425 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:47:37am |
re: #422 Obdicut
This moron thinks praying on the street should be illegal.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Only if it blocks traffic. They're probably better off praying on the sidewalk.
//
| 426 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:47:39am |
re: #416 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
But I'm not trying to win anything. That, I leave to the folks like yourself, who end up arguing against crap not even said, instead of reading what's been written over, and over, and over again.
Ah, I see. When you argue, you're not trying to win, but I am.
That's priceless.
So what is gained by traipsing off after some dismissive sentence?
Anybody can pull that old move.
They can also pull the move of coming back for another post after getting dressed. That one's a sick move!
You're a little too internet for me, I think.
| 427 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:47:56am |
re: #419 RogueOne
The ATF recognized the obvious need of more large caliber weapons in Mexico and set up shop...
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
Their next excuse will be they were doing their best to spur the local economy.
The ATF is spinning. They haven't a choice, really. Admitting "We fouled up and got a lot of people killed" isn't really an option if you want to keep your job.
| 428 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:48:20am |
re: #418 Sergey Romanov
All you can think about are chicks' ... numbers! Yeah, numbers.
Wonderboy: The man who would rather do math than have sex.
The man that would rather play guitar than have sex.
| 429 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:49:16am |
re: #427 Dark_Falcon
The idea that they got a lot of people killed is predicated on the idea that it's availability of guns that leads to murders, rather than the will to murder.
Which is, I thought, something that gun rights owners were vehemently against.
Do you think that those murdered would have not been murdered if those particular guns hadn't been available for purchase?
| 430 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:50:11am |
re: #422 Obdicut
This moron thinks praying on the street should be illegal.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the 1st Amendment. I wish they were fewer. We seem to be clue-batting them all the time and my arms get tired.
| 431 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:51:25am |
re: #422 Obdicut
This moron thinks praying on the street should be illegal.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
You know my position. It's OK as long as it doesn't interfere. Like this:
| 432 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:51:50am |
re: #406 reuven
Speaking of Christianity, Greetings from Rome!
Image: 5990221489_1dbbd6249e_b.jpg
We went to the Vatican today, but the Pope wasn't there. I guess he's busy writing his sermon for tomorrow. He has very nice stuff, and a great ceiling!
Sweet! Are you enjoying the food?
| 433 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:52:55am |
Pencils don't kill people
People WITH pencils kill people!!
[Link: www.boston.com...]
BAN THE TICONDEROGA #2
| 434 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:53:03am |
re: #429 Obdicut
The idea that they got a lot of people killed is predicated on the idea that it's availability of guns that leads to murders, rather than the will to murder.
Which is, I thought, something that gun rights owners were vehemently against.
Do you think that those murdered would have not been murdered if those particular guns hadn't been available for purchase?
Tough to say. Some would have died anyways, and some of the guns would have been trafficked anyways. But the ATF operation made things worse, and it failed to accomplish its mission.
| 435 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:53:10am |
re: #426 Obdicut
Ah, I see. When you argue, you're not trying to win, but I am.
That's priceless.
In this instance, yeah. Others, nah.
| 436 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:54:30am |
re: #431 Sergey Romanov
You know my position. It's OK as long as it doesn't interfere. Like this:
How would the "interfere"?
Looks like those stepping stones would make it easier to cross the street!!
///
| 437 |
ReamWorks SKG Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:55:06am |
We secretly squoze one off in here. Shhh!
Image: 5990827388_178bded1cc_b.jpg
That's the great ceiling I was talking about. (Warning! Nudity!)
| 438 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:55:21am |
re: #436 sattv4u2
Tsk, tsk. ;)
| 439 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:55:27am |
re: #434 Dark_Falcon
Tough to say. Some would have died anyways, and some of the guns would have been trafficked anyways. But the ATF operation made things worse, and it failed to accomplish its mission.
I'm not so sure it was a failure. It raised awareness that our gun laws are fueling gang violence in neighboring countries. It's a pretty serious problem. We don't want to be a destabilizing force in the Western Hemisphere.
| 440 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:56:00am |
re: #437 reuven
We secretly squoze one off in here. Shhh!
Image: 5990827388_178bded1cc_b.jpg
That's the great ceiling I was talking about. (Warning! Nudity!)
LIAR ,,, you have clothes on!!
(well,,, in the photo ,,, I don't know about right now!!!)
| 441 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:56:26am |
re: #437 reuven
We secretly squoze one off in here. Shhh!
Image: 5990827388_178bded1cc_b.jpg
That's the great ceiling I was talking about. (Warning! Nudity!)
Why did all those nude folks get up on the ceiling? ///
| 442 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:58:04am |
re: #430 Dark_Falcon
Another person who doesn't understand the meaning of the 1st Amendment. I wish they were fewer. We seem to be clue-batting them all the time and my arms get tired.
Anybody see Bryan Fischers' little smackdown of Herman Cain?
Poor Cain...last week it was Richard Land. Now it's Bryan [Link: www.politico.com...] (warning-hatemonger site.) If he's not careful, Bryan just might rescind that bestowal of the only authentic black man in the race, tsk tsk. e_e
| 443 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:58:07am |
| 444 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:58:20am |
re: #434 Dark_Falcon
Tough to say. Some would have died anyways, and some of the guns would have been trafficked anyways. But the ATF operation made things worse, and it failed to accomplish its mission.
They have a large string of indictments at the moment, which was part of the mission. And since it's tough to say, you can't actually make the claim that what the ATF did got a lot of people killed.
It is really hard to see an argument here that isn't that availability of guns leads to more gun violence.
| 445 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:58:53am |
| 446 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:59:05am |
Alright. Really doing my errands now. Blech. So freaking hot out there.
| 447 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:59:35am |
re: #445 Sergey Romanov
Nude and high. What could possibly go wrong?
flunk out of college??
oh ,, wait,,, I was,, and I didn't!!!
| 449 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 7:59:58am |
More related videos....
Aug 25, 2009
LIES about U S A Mexico Gun Trafficking
Apr 2, 2009
FNC - 83% of Mexican drug cartel guns could not be traced back to America
This is why the ATF and FBI launched their investigations. This is also why the wingnuts want to discredit the investigations.
| 450 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:00:18am |
| 451 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:01:07am |
| 452 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:01:33am |
re: #439 Killgore Trout
I'm not so sure it was a failure. It raised awareness that our gun laws are fueling gang violence in neighboring countries. It's a pretty serious problem. We don't want to be a destabilizing force in the Western Hemisphere.
Project Fast and Furious: We secretly switched our gun laws with decaffeinated folgers crystals...Hey Mexico, Lets see what happens!
It was a dumb idea that got people killed. We aren't talking a few dozen weapons they could keep track of, we're talking thousands of guns with no plan on how to track where they went until they turned up used in a crime scene.
| 453 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:01:53am |
re: #437 reuven
We secretly squoze one off in here. Shhh!
Image: 5990827388_178bded1cc_b.jpg
That's the great ceiling I was talking about. (Warning! Nudity!)
Interesting. I was there as a kid (maybe 8-9 years old) I remember it being bigger than that but I guess I was just smaller then.
| 454 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:01:56am |
re: #439 Killgore Trout
I'm not so sure it was a failure. It raised awareness that our gun laws are fueling gang violence in neighboring countries. It's a pretty serious problem. We don't want to be a destabilizing force in the Western Hemisphere.
Did you even read what I wrote?:
Issa found cases where the FBI let guns sales go through that the laws already on the books would have prevented. Said guns were only followed a short distance, and then allowed to slip away. They were not seen again by law enforcement till they turned up in cartel hands in Mexico.
Sorry about the bolding but I felt it needed to make a point. The operation let the laws fail and then proceeded to fail at its primary objective. That constitutes an utter failure, Killgore.
| 455 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:02:25am |
re: #451 Sergey Romanov
Now don't you go aping people who use cheap puns.
Why not
She's the gorilla my dreams!
| 456 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:02:56am |
The Supreme Court should totally strike Godwin's law down.
//
| 457 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:03:48am |
re: #442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Anybody see Bryan Fischers' little smackdown of Herman Cain?
Poor Cain...last week it was Richard Land. Now it's Bryan [Link: www.politico.com...] (warning-hatemonger site.) If he's not careful, Bryan just might rescind that bestowal of the only authentic black man in the race, tsk tsk. e_e
You linked to the same Politico story twice, I think.
| 458 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:03:59am |
re: #452 RogueOne
Project Fast and Furious: We secretly switched our gun laws with decaffeinated folgers crystals...Hey Mexico, Lets see what happens!
[Video]It was a dumb idea that got people killed. We aren't talking a few dozen weapons they could keep track of, we're talking thousands of guns with no plan on how to track where they went until they turned up used in a crime scene.
My theory is this. It isn't much of a theory but... Fast and Furious was a dumb idea. Let ATF figure out what the feck they did wrong and LET'S MOVE ON! I am sick and tired of watching those asshole on the Hill turn every little mistake perpetrated by the government in order to create political theater not for the benefit of the people but for the benefit of their party or themselves. It's bullshit. Enough already with the useless hearings in DC.
| 459 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:05:01am |
| 460 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:05:32am |
re: #458 Gus 802
Enough already with the useless hearings in DC.
You're going to put a lot of lawyers and TV "news" personalities out of work!!!
//(somewhat)
| 461 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:05:51am |
The reason for the gun traffic is simply that the cartels use the weapons to protect their core business: human and drug trafficking.
Until we reform our immigration and drug laws, we are fighting a hydra.
| 462 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:06:04am |
re: #454 Dark_Falcon
Did you even read what I wrote?:
Issa found cases where the FBI let guns sales go through that the laws already on the books would have prevented. Said guns were only followed a short distance, and then allowed to slip away. They were not seen again by law enforcement till they turned up in cartel hands in Mexico.
Sorry about the bolding but I felt it needed to make a point. The operation let the laws fail and then proceeded to fail at its primary objective. That constitutes an utter failure, Killgore.
Yes, I did read what you wrote, I just don't know how accurate your facts are. I don't think the Fast and Furious thing is a huge scandal so I haven't really spent a lot of time checking the claims. Worst case scenario is that is was a botched investigation. Nothing more.
| 463 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:06:28am |
re: #445 Sergey Romanov
Nude and high. What could possibly go wrong?
Been there. Not sure where I was or how I got there, but I've been there.
| 464 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:06:51am |
re: #461 ralphieboy
The reason for the gun traffic is simply that the cartels use the weapons to protect their core business: human and drug trafficking.
Until we reform our immigration and drug laws, we are fighting a hydra.
Very much agreed.
| 465 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:07:39am |
And enough already with this stupid Drug War. Enough! We've spent trillions over the years. People want to smoke pot. Legalize pot once and for all and treat it like any other commodity. The Feds have not moral basis for keeping it illegal and in the same class as heroin. Screw it. Heard enough already. And if we spent half as much we did in Afghanistan and Iraq on Mexico maybe Mexico wouldn't be as screwed up as it is.
| 466 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:10:07am |
and now for something really important:
Peyton Manning 'willing to take less' money
[Link: eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com...]
However, Manning told the Indianapolis Star on Friday that he's willing to take less money if it means the Colts can retain more players and remain aggressive in the open market."While I appreciate Jim Irsay offering to make me the highest-paid player, I told him I’d rather he save that money and keep whoever it is ... Joe Addai, Charlie Johnson, whoever that may be," Manning said, per the Indianapolis Star. "I'm willing to take less than they’ve offered if they are going to take that money to keep players we need to keep and go get other players.
"All I want is for them to have the cap and the cash to keep the players they want to keep and to sign other players."
| 467 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:11:24am |
re: #466 RogueOne
and now for something really important:
Peyton Manning 'willing to take less' money
[Link: eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com...]
Brady did the same thing a number of years ago
RESULT ,, , Super Bowl Champs
(and in the end, his next contract, the one he's under now,, was worth MEGA Moolah)
| 468 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:11:34am |
re: #466 RogueOne
"All I want is for them to have the cap and the cash to keep the players they want to keep and to sign other players."
You mean he suuports cap and trade?
| 469 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:11:50am |
And get rid of the ATF while we're at it. What the hell. Alcohol, tobacco and firearms? WTF The FBI should be handling this not another stupid bureaucracy. We already have the ATF, CIA, FBI, DEA, NSA, HS, SS, EIEIO. Consolidate.
| 470 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:13:32am |
re: #457 Dark_Falcon
You linked to the same Politico story twice, I think.
You're right, pimf.
| 471 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:14:00am |
re: #467 sattv4u2
Brady did the same thing a number of years ago
RESULT ,, , Super Bowl Champs
(and in the end, his next contract, the one he's under now,, was worth MEGA Moolah)
Yeah, the other big news:
Ochocinco has first practice with Brady, Patriots
[Link: www.cbssports.com...]
the cold war between with pats is still on despite the jeff saturday -bob kraft hug.
| 472 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:14:32am |
re: #456 Sergey Romanov
The Supreme Court should totally strike Godwin's law down.
//
Needs landmark decision.
| 473 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:14:35am |
re: #469 Gus 802
And get rid of the ATF while we're at it. What the hell. Alcohol, tobacco and firearms? WTF The FBI should be handling this not another stupid bureaucracy. We already have the ATF, CIA, FBI, DEA, NSA, HS, SS, EIEIO. Consolidate.
Can't recall the comedian, but he did a bit about WHY Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms were under the same office
he's talking on the phone to an ATF rep
"I was just wondering, what type of gun should I get if I prefer Vodka"
pause (as he "listens" to the rep)
"Well,,I smoke Marlboros, why do you ask?"
| 474 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:14:39am |
re: #469 Gus 802
And get rid of the ATF while we're at it. What the hell. Alcohol, tobacco and firearms? WTF The FBI should be handling this not another stupid bureaucracy. We already have the ATF, CIA, FBI, DEA, NSA, HS, SS, EIEIO. Consolidate.
The ATF should be code for the best 3 day festival ever.
| 475 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:14:43am |
The damn ATF should have died when prohibition died. It was created under the Volstead Act. It's a joke. Here we are in 2011 using some dumb department created in the 1920s. Move on. Modernize. Stop being a bunch of Federalist traditionalists.
| 476 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:15:34am |
re: #471 RogueOne
bad preview...."cold war with the pats"...
| 477 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:19:55am |
re: #476 RogueOne
bad preview..."cold war with the pats"...
It'll heat up the night of Dec 4th
Dec 04 IND @ NE Gillette Stadium 8:20 PM
| 478 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:22:46am |
re: #477 sattv4u2
It'll heat up the night of Dec 4th
Dec 04 IND @ NE Gillette Stadium 8:20 PM
December. I'm rooting for global warming.
| 479 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:24:42am |
re: #478 RogueOne
December. I'm rooting for global warming.
You should
iirc, Indy doesn't have a great record
A) outdoors
B) in December
C) in a northeast city
| 480 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:25:25am |
I'm waiting to see if yuppy neighbor fires up the power washer and blasts paint chips all over the place again. I talked to him about it last week but I expect him to do it again. Looks like he's going to make no attempt to clean up the chips.
| 481 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:26:27am |
re: #480 Killgore Trout
I'm waiting to see if yuppy neighbor fires up the power washer and blasts paint chips all over the place again. I talked to him about it last week but I expect him to do it again. Looks like he's going to make no attempt to clean up the chips.
So he's letting the chips fall where they may!?!?!
(damn, that was a cheapie!)
| 482 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:31:02am |
re: #481 sattv4u2
So he's letting the chips fall where they may!?!?!
(damn, that was a cheapie!)
Heh, I thought about urging him to clean them up. He has an 18 month old toddler. Kids and paint chips don't get along well. He either doesn't know or care, I'll leave it alone as long as he doesn't spray paint chips onto my vegetables again.
| 483 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:33:49am |
re: #482 Killgore Trout
Heh, I thought about urging him to clean them up. He has an 18 month old toddler. Kids and paint chips don't get along well. He either doesn't know or care, I'll leave it alone as long as he doesn't spray paint chips onto my vegetables again.
Cover your veggies with a big sheet of plastic (or something)
You can get cheap drop cloths at the dollar store
If nothing else, it will keep you from having to pick hundreds of individual chips out of your veggie/ flower beds
| 484 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:34:17am |
re: #482 Killgore Trout
Heh, I thought about urging him to clean them up. He has an 18 month old toddler. Kids and paint chips don't get along well. He either doesn't know or care, I'll leave it alone as long as he doesn't spray paint chips onto my vegetables again.
Maybe he's trying to fix that whole passing on his idiot genes thing....
| 485 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:35:32am |
re: #479 sattv4u2
You should
iirc, Indy doesn't have a great record
A) outdoors
B) in December
C) in a northeast city
I'll be shocked if Manning isn't co-owner/GM of the colts shortly after he decides to retire.
| 486 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:36:23am |
re: #483 sattv4u2
Cover your veggies with a big sheet of plastic (or something)
You can get cheap drop cloths at the dollar store
If nothing else, it will keep you from having to pick hundreds of individual chips out of your veggie/ flower beds
Yeah, I already have the row covers in place just in case but if he does it again I'll still have to go through and pick up the paint chips. I just don't want them contaminating the soil.
| 487 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:37:35am |
re: #474 RogueOne
The ATF should be code for the best 3 day festival ever.
Crap. Now I've depressed myself just thinking about this. All of it. I'm relapsing into Teabagger mode here.
| 488 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:38:01am |
re: #486 Killgore Trout
Yeah, I already have the row covers in place just in case but if he does it again I'll still have to go through and pick up the paint chips. I just don't want them contaminating the soil.
Thats why I suggested the covers/ tarps
Do you have a leaf blower? If not, borrow/rent one and once he's done just blow the chips over to his property
| 489 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:38:33am |
re: #466 RogueOne
and now for something really important:
Peyton Manning 'willing to take less' money
[Link: eye-on-football.blogs.cbssports.com...]
That man's a class act. Other players should take sportsmanship lessons from the Manning brothers.
| 490 |
RogueOne Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:39:50am |
re: #487 Gus 802
Crap. Now I've depressed myself just thinking about this. All of it. I'm relapsing into Teabagger mode here.
I'm trying to entice you with evil libertarian promises of cheap drugs, alcohol, cigarettes and guns.
| 491 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:40:44am |
re: #480 Killgore Trout
I'm waiting to see if Suppy neighbor fires up the power washer and blasts paint chips all over the place again. I talked to him about it last week but I expect him to do it again. Looks like he's going to make no attempt to clean up the chips.
Suppy:Stupid Urban Pusillanimous Polecat. It's my mother's turn of phrase.
BBL
| 492 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:43:03am |
K Kiddies
UPSIDE,, the backyard grass is probably dry enough for me to mow it now
DOPWNSIDE,,, unlike 3+ hours ago when I was out there doing other yardwork, it's now about 95 with 70% humidity!!
oh ,, joy!!
| 493 |
sattv4u2 Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:43:36am |
re: #492 sattv4u2
K Kiddies
UPSIDE,, the backyard grass is probably dry enough for me to mow it now
DO
PWNSIDE,,, unlike 3+ hours ago when I was out there doing other yardwork, it's now about 95 with 70% humidity!!oh ,, joy!!
| 494 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:43:37am |
re: #488 sattv4u2
Do you have a leaf blower? If not, borrow/rent one and once he's done just blow the chips over to his property
I have a huge shop vac that I used on the worst areas and just skimmed off the top inch or two of soil. I left the shop vac out in a very visible place hoping he'll get the hint and clean up the chips.
| 496 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:46:02am |
re: #494 Killgore Trout
I have a huge shop vac that I used on the worst areas and just skimmed off the top inch or two of soil. I left the shop vac out in a very visible place hoping he'll get the hint and clean up the chips.
You want my advice? Stop being nice. Start yelling. You already tried being nice. Either that or go out there with a rake while he's running that thing and start flinging those paint chips back into his yard while playing AC/DC on your stereo at 11.
| 497 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:47:08am |
re: #496 Gus 802
You want my advice? Stop being nice. Start yelling. You already tried being nice. Either that or go out there with a rake while he's running that thing and start flinging those paint chips back into his yard while playing
AC/DCrap music on your stereo at 11.
Make that rap music.
| 498 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:51:26am |
Speaking of money holes...
Iraq less safe than a year ago: US watchdog
Nearly a dozen civilians die violent deaths in Iraq every day
A top US adviser on Iraq has accused the US military of glossing over an upsurge in violence, just months before its troops are due to be withdrawn.
Iraq is more dangerous now than a year ago, said a report issued by the US Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, Stuart W Bowen Junior.
He said the killing of US soldiers and senior Iraqi figures, had risen, along with attacks in Baghdad .
The report contradicts usually upbeat assessments from the US military.
It comes as Washington is preparing to withdraw its remaining 47,000 troops from Iraq by the end of the year, despite fears that the Iraqi security forces might not be ready to take over fully....
| 499 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:53:13am |
re: #496 Gus 802
You want my advice? Stop being nice. Start yelling. You already tried being nice. Either that or go out there with a rake while he's running that thing and start flinging those paint chips back into his yard while playing AC/DC on your stereo at 11.
Nah, I've been working on being a better person over the past couple years. I'll kill him with kindness. The more dickish he becomes the nicer I'll be. If nothing else it makes be a happier person.
| 500 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:55:03am |
re: #499 Killgore Trout
Nah, I've been working on being a better person over the past couple years. I'll kill him with kindness. The more dickish he becomes the nicer I'll be. If nothing else it makes be a happier person.
OK. Whatever works for you.
| 501 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 8:56:35am |
If he leaves more paint chips on his property in an area that I have to worry about rain run off and soil contamination I'll just go over after he leaves for work and clean them up again. I did it last week and it took a couple hours but it's better that waiting for him to do it.
| 502 |
The Left Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:01:19am |
re: #487 Gus 802
Crap. Now I've depressed myself just thinking about this. All of it. I'm relapsing into Teabagger mode here.
Are you yelling at kids to get off your damn lawn yet? If you're not it's not too late. :-)
| 503 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:02:32am |
re: #502 iceweasel
Are you yelling at kids to get off your damn lawn yet? If you're not it's not too late. :-)
Not yet but I'm tempted. Most of the kids are still asleep alongside their boozer parents in Hooterville.
//
| 504 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:05:44am |
Burp...
Islamist militia 'shot Libya rebel Abdel Fattah Younes'
An Islamist militia was behind the killing of Libyan rebel commander Gen Abdel Fattah Younes, who was shot dead on Thursday, a rebel minister has said.
Ali Tarhouni said Gen Younes was killed by members of the Obaida Ibn Jarrah Brigade, a group linked to the rebels.
Gen Younes defected to the rebels in February after serving in the Libyan leadership since the 1969 coup which brought Col Muammar Gaddafi to power.
Meanwhile Nato says it bombed Libyan state TV transmitters overnight....
| 506 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:08:43am |
re: #502 iceweasel
Are you yelling at kids to get off your damn lawn yet? If you're not it's not too late. :-)
Heh. A little girl from down the street came by yesterday and started singing, spinning and flapping her arms. Her mother told me it's the yellow balloon dance (I have these yellow balloons around to scare the crows. As far as I can tell the lyrics were "Yellooowww Balloooon! The Yelloow Balloooon is here!" Very cute.
| 507 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:09:18am |
re: #15 Sergey Romanov
There is an idiot commenter there, scroll down to "armaros":
[Link: hurryupharry.org...]
He quotes SB and Gus. What a moron.
We had one of those. I didn't try looking at his old comments. I'm sure there are no surprises. From his comment at Harry's:
He is an obsessed stalker with no life and no blog left except for his cult mignons who praise him daily for his intellectual farts.
Mmm, cult mignons. Could be the new 'honco".
| 508 |
The Left Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:09:48am |
re: #506 Killgore Trout
Heh. A little girl from down the street came by yesterday and started singing, spinning and flapping her arms. Her mother told me it's the yellow balloon dance (I have these yellow balloons around to scare the crows. As far as I can tell the lyrics were "Yellooowww Ballooon! The Yelloow Ballooon is here!" Very cute.
That's too adorable!
| 511 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:18:46am |
Yeah. I get it. I know the way these butthurt mouth breathing anti-Jihadist bloggers think. They hope someday we have a dictatorship whereupon people like Charles, SB or me are unable to speak. Their vision is a right wing version of Hugo Chavez's Venezuela. Our reaction towards Geller could be seen as a "free market" reaction. She is in the public sphere not me. I am just a citizen responding to her lunacy as I am free to do in these United States. She can speak her lunacy and I can respond. If she doesn't expect criticism leveled against her than she can start her own dictatorship.
In the mean time. I'm reminded of something...
From Jeffrey Goldberg:
Pamela Geller's Followers Go Nuts (or Are Nuts, or Something)
By Jeffrey Goldberg
Jul 28 2011, 10:54 AM ET
Please, nutty people, leave my e-mail inbox alone! I've been flooded with mail from defenders of Pamela Geller, the shrieking bigot who thinks all Muslims are evil, that Muslims live under her bed, that Muslims short-sheeted her bed at summer camp, and so on. Here is one such letter:Pamela Geller is right, you want to see America and Israel destroyed. Why do you love Muslims so much? Are you a secret Muslim?
You got me! I am a secret Muslim. Well, not a secret one anymore. I'm actually known in Occupied Palestine as Abu Tsuris. I was a summer intern with Hamas (in the press office) and I'm hoping to get my M.A. in Shari'a from al-Azhar University, where I also play for the lacrosse team.
| 512 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:23:15am |
[Link: www.reuters.com...]
Police said Breivik was interrogated for 10 hours on Friday, verifying details from previous questioning and answering new questions.
"He explains himself well and is more than willing to talk about the events," police attorney Paal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby told a news conference on Saturday.
| 513 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:23:43am |
I just managed to walk around the entire Central Park Reservoir by mistake, instead of just walking by it on my way across the park.
I r smrt.
| 514 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:24:17am |
It's no surprise that these anti-social mental deformities also admire Milosevic, Mladic, Pinochet and Putin. Heck, they even admire Breivik's rhetoric.
| 515 |
funky chicken Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:24:19am |
Hey, I got an ad for a Koch Institute paid internship on the sidebar. Wow, an offer to help "increase liberty" or some nonsense. Hey, if creationists can sneak their way through doctorate programs in biological sciences, maybe some lizard could get on at the Koch lobbyist firm. I'm not sneaky enough though.
| 516 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:25:35am |
re: #513 Obdicut
I just managed to walk around the entire Central Park Reservoir by mistake, instead of just walking by it on my way across the park.
I r smrt.
The road less traveled etc. etc.
| 517 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:27:05am |
re: #501 Killgore Trout
If he leaves more paint chips on his property in an area that I have to worry about rain run off and soil contamination I'll just go over after he leaves for work and clean them up again. I did it last week and it took a couple hours but it's better that waiting for him to do it.
Before you get too inconvenienced, gather some chips and buy a lead test kit from a good hardware store. If the paint is fairly contemporary, it might not even have lead content.
| 518 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:27:46am |
re: #517 Decatur Deb
I think he already did several days ago.
| 519 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:28:32am |
re: #513 Obdicut
I just managed to walk around the entire Central Park Reservoir by mistake, instead of just walking by it on my way across the park.
I r smrt.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
| 520 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:30:12am |
re: #515 funky chicken
Hey, I got an ad for a Koch Institute paid internship on the sidebar. Wow, an offer to help "increase liberty" or some nonsense. Hey, if creationists can sneak their way through doctorate programs in biological sciences, maybe some lizard could get on at the Koch lobbyist firm. I'm not sneaky enough though.
I'd have to wear pantyhose. No can do.
| 521 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:30:42am |
re: #519 wrenchwench
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
You mean 3 lefties have as much worth as 1 rightie? TRAITOR!
//
| 523 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:32:31am |
Did Sully stop blogging at The Atlantic?
| 524 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:33:58am |
| 526 |
simoom Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:35:00am |
I was reading this summary of the current incarnation of the BBA:
[Link: fredbauerblog.blogspot.com...]
The “balanced budget amendment” (BBA) currently endorsed by many Congressional Republicans not only requires that the budget be balanced but also stipulates, among other things, that federal spending cannot go above 18% of GDP without a 2/3 majority vote in favor, that taxes cannot be increased without a 2/3 majority vote in favor, and that a vote of 3/5 of both branches of Congress will be required to raise the debt ceiling. A 2/3 vote can also allow the budget not to be balanced. War can allow many of these majority requirements to be waived---with the notable exception of taxes, which would still require a 2/3 majority to be increased.
I think this makes clear why Boehner's modified bill, where a debt ceiling increase hinges on a BBA being passed by congress, contains basically the most effective poison pill that can almost be imagined. The current RW-edit of the BBA would enshrine in the constitution great pressure to balance the budget at historically low spending levels while at the same time giving GOP tax policy preferences a massive advantage (66% of congressmen required to raise revenues) no matter how democratic elections shake out in the future. It also makes any future blackmail attempts using debt ceiling increases even harder to diffuse (60% required in both Houses).
There's also something profoundly undemocratic about a party only controlling a majority of one body of congress (while their opposition controls the other and the White House) and attempting to "leverage" the well-being of the country into amending the constitution when they don't have anywhere near the 2/3-votes needed in either body of Congress.
| 527 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:35:02am |
re: #517 Decatur Deb
Before you get too inconvenienced, gather some chips and buy a lead test kit from a good hardware store. If the paint is fairly contemporary, it might not even have lead content.
I tested for lead and they're negative. Still, even modern paint (I'd guess this stuff is about 20 years old) has xylene, acetone, and all kinds of nasty chemicals and carcinogens. Still not safe on vegetables or children. I'm sure all these yards have plenty of old paint chips and nasty chemicals in them all ready. I'm not terribly uptight about it but I do try to minimize soil contamination when I can.
| 528 |
funky chicken Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:36:06am |
re: #511 Gus 802
Sekrit Muslim worried about Islamists in Tahrir Square. How confusing:
[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]
| 529 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:36:25am |
| 530 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:36:33am |
| 531 |
recusancy Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:37:34am |
re: #530 Obdicut
Basically, it would turn the US into California's legislative system.
Awesome.
Exactly.
| 532 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:38:50am |
re: #528 funky chicken
Sekrit Muslim worried about Islamists in Tahrir Square. How confusing:
[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]
Yeah. Same here. Which is why I mentioned them in my #504. Yep. That's me. The sekrit Islamist. Uh huh.
| 533 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:40:06am |
re: #532 Gus 802
Yeah. Same here. Which is why I mentioned them in my #504. Yep. That's me. The sekrit Islamist. Uh huh.
Assalam aleikum, brother.
| 534 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:40:20am |
re: #527 Killgore Trout
I tested for lead and they're negative. Still, even modern paint (I'd guess this stuff is about 20 years old) has xylene, acetone, and all kinds of nasty chemicals and carcinogens. Still not safe on vegetables or children. I'm sure all these yards have plenty of old paint chips and nasty chemicals in them all ready. I'm not terribly uptight about it but I do try to minimize soil contamination when I can.
Used to work in a related field--paints can have The Nasty, but xylene, acetone, and any other volatiles should be long gone. They did their bit of damage when they gassed off the wet paint. I'll bend to any current industrial hygiene guy on this.
| 535 |
funky chicken Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:41:16am |
re: #527 Killgore Trout
Most of the toxic stuff in paint is volatile, so it would be gone by now. I agree that old paint waste isn't my chosen soil amendment, but don't worry too much about it.
| 537 |
funky chicken Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:42:34am |
re: #530 Obdicut
Basically, it would turn the US into California's legislative system.
Awesome.
And don't these guys spend an awful lot of time screaming about the destruction of CA by the legislature there?
| 538 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:43:26am |
re: #534 Decatur Deb
Used to work in a related field--paints can have The Nasty, but xylene, acetone, and any other volatiles should be long gone. They did their bit of damage when they gassed off the wet paint. I'll bend to any current industrial hygiene guy on this.
I use chemicals like xylene (xylol), mineral spirits, acetone fairly frequently when working on cellos and violins. I use gloves and am pretty careful with them but I'm sure I already have more than my fair share of exposure.
| 539 |
Obdicut Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:43:41am |
re: #537 funky chicken
And don't these guys spend an awful lot of time screaming about the destruction of CA by the legislature there?
And it's actually even worse, since it doesn't provide any protection against spending, just against raising the debt limit. They've managed to convince themselves that they're the same.
| 540 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:49:24am |
Little Green Footballs has evolved into irrelevance!!11ty Charles Johnson's OPINION MEANS NOTHING!!11ty
LOL Yeah right.
| 541 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:49:35am |
re: #538 Killgore Trout
I use chemicals like xylene (xylol), mineral spirits, acetone fairly frequently when working on cellos and violins. I use gloves and am pretty careful with them but I'm sure I already have more than my fair share of exposure.
Those you mention have fairly generous Threshold Limit Values--i.e. they are not proven to cause harm until you get a fairly good shot of them, mostly in your breathing air. A simple organic vapor half-mask respirator should cut the little you describe to a safe level. They have skin-drying characteristics, but nothing very chronic unless you get an unlikely bath in them. Prolonged high skin or esp. breathing exposures would be a central nervous system and liver risk. The MSDS is our friend, but only if you spend a lot of time learning the unique language and politics behind their development.
| 542 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:51:38am |
| 543 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:52:21am |
| 544 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:53:59am |
re: #542 Sergey Romanov
...
And have two parody accounts of Gus_802 on Twitter!!11ty
Charles JohnsonGus_802 is irrelevant!!11ty
| 545 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:54:56am |
I confess. Charles pays me 300 dollars a day to be here and comment.
//
| 546 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:55:11am |
re: #540 Gus 802
LOL Yeah right.
Its so meaningless that they hang on its every word, just so they can say how insignificant.
| 547 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:55:54am |
re: #545 Gus 802
I confess. Charles pays me 300 dollars a day to be here and comment.
//
Clearly at the low end of the Zionist Pay Scale.
| 548 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:56:37am |
re: #546 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Its so meaningless that they hang on its every word, just so they can say how insignificant.
Why we're so insignificant they keep track of when we ridicule the insignificance of our alleged insignificance!
//
| 549 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:57:50am |
re: #530 Obdicut
Basically, it would turn the US into California's legislative system.
Awesome.
I'm not really the expert on California law that I so often appear to be.
I'm going to guess it means at least one of a few things:
1) Extremely easy to pass law based on any crazy old whim - Louis Gohmert could pass his Time Travelling Terror Baby Containment Act by simply having a dream about it. Equally easy to repeal any existing law. Entire decades can be spent enacting, overturning, and re-enacting a traffic regulation if one is so inclined.
2) Damned near impossible to do anything at all. Declaring Congress to be in session for the day requires ratification by 4/5ths of the states, and the notarized signature of 94% of everyone over the age of 12 but under the age of 43 whose middle name is "Lee". Even harder to repeal laws.
3) either or both of the above in any combination, with the added requirement that all proceedings be conducted in Esperanto.
| 550 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:58:17am |
They R insignificant! Now! About Killgore_Trout's latest post on kale and frogs. We must address this at once! To the boiler ROOM!!11ty
| 551 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:58:30am |
re: #548 Gus 802
Why we're so insignificant they keep track of when we ridicule the insignificance of our alleged insignificance!
//
How can you argue with them? They have graphs.
| 552 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 9:59:14am |
re: #551 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
How can you argue with them? They have graphs.
They do! LOL It's a science!
Anyone see my funny hat?
//
| 553 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:00:38am |
| 554 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:01:14am |
re: #552 Gus 802
They do! LOL It's a science!
Anyone see my funny hat?
//
| 556 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:05:56am |
re: #548 Gus 802
Why we're so insignificant they keep track of when we ridicule the insignificance of our alleged insignificance!
//
| 557 |
kirkspencer Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:07:30am |
re: #530 Obdicut
Basically, it would turn the US into California's legislative system.
Awesome.
Worse.
18% of last year's GDP (not this year's, it has to use the preceding year) of ~14T would be ~2.5T. FY2011's expenditures are on track for ~3.8T.
So, whatcha gonna cut for that 1.3% difference?
| 558 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:07:54am |
re: #556 Sergey Romanov
[Video]
Tried to link to a time inside the clip, if it doesn't work, ignore.
| 559 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:09:06am |
re: #558 Sergey Romanov
Tried to link to a time inside the clip, if it doesn't work, ignore.
Was linking to 63:50.
| 560 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:09:43am |
re: #557 kirkspencer
Worse.
18% of last year's GDP (not this year's, it has to use the preceding year) of ~14T would be ~2.5T. FY2011's expenditures are on track for ~3.8T.
So, whatcha gonna cut for that 1.3
%T difference?
| 561 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:10:06am |
re: #559 Sergey Romanov
Was linking to 63:50.
Thanks. I'm on a limited connection here with only 5G a month so I can't watch videos. Otherwise it would vanish in a week.
| 562 |
kirkspencer Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:10:59am |
re: #557 kirkspencer
Worse.
18% of last year's GDP (not this year's, it has to use the preceding year) of ~14T would be ~2.5T. FY2011's expenditures are on track for ~3.8T.
So, whatcha gonna cut for that 1.3% difference?
ugh, forgot to explain the worst. That cut would cause a downturn in GDP, which would recurse for at least three years. It's basically a TABOR.
The best example of the problems of TABOR is what it did to Colorado over the past decade and a half.
| 564 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:16:56am |
re: #243 NJDhockeyfan
There are people who are really into kitlers. (These people are not helping by only photographing her with one forelimb raised, btw.)
It is hardly the cat's fault it looks like Hitler--it's Hitler's fault for having a stupid distinctive mustache and hairdo. Just consider that the cat looks like Charlie Chaplin instead, and someone adopt her already.
And change the name!
| 565 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:18:10am |
re: #541 Decatur Deb
Prolonged high skin or esp. breathing exposures would be a central nervous system and liver risk.
I heard the theory/old wives tale that the chemicals used in early oil paints is the reason why so many great painters were alcoholic. The alcohol counters the effects on the nervous system.
| 566 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:20:29am |
re: #550 Gus 802
Heh. They put up a thread yesterday about my decision to delay home improvement spending because of the debt ceiling debate dragging down the stock market. When I skimmed the comments last night even the stalkers admitted they were postponing big spending too. Outrage fail.
| 567 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:21:18am |
re: #347 Sergey Romanov
Not any Judaism. I think they would spare practitioners of non-rabbinical forms. Karaites and such.
In the case of the Karaites, I've been told, only because they believed they were not ethnic Jews--after consulting with the German rabbinate, who told them, "Oh, THEM? They're SO not ethnic Jews."
So I have been told, meaning I heard this once in a lecture, no references.
| 568 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:22:01am |
re: #565 Killgore Trout
I heard the theory/old wives tale that the chemicals used in early oil paints is the reason why so many great painters were alcoholic. The alcohol counters the effects on the nervous system.
Or being overly fond of Old Master could make you try to be an old master.
| 569 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:22:53am |
Speaking of frogs: It looks like most of the tads have grown legs and left the pond. There's a few late bloomers left but not many. I also noticed that some of the plants closest to the pond were getting overrun by aphids last week but now are completely bug free.
| 570 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:23:43am |
re: #424 sattv4u2
And then she mentioned that all the marble in the Vatican came from the Colosseum.
recycling program
Cracked.com informs us that the facing on the Pyramids was stripped during the Middle Ages,and used for building in Cairo.
| 571 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:23:49am |
re: #567 SanFranciscoZionist
In the case of the Karaites, I've been told, only because they believed they were not ethnic Jews--after consulting with the German rabbinate, who told them, "Oh, THEM? They're SO not ethnic Jews."
So I have been told, meaning I heard this once in a lecture, no references.
That goes without saying. Ethnic Jews would be murdered regardless of religion.
| 572 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:24:07am |
re: #566 Killgore Trout
Heh. They put up a thread yesterday about my decision to delay home improvement spending because of the debt ceiling debate dragging down the stock market. When I skimmed the comments last night even the stalkers admitted they were postponing big spending too. Outrage fail.
That sure takes a lot of commitment. I mean to create a thread about you based on your comment on delaying home improvements. They do this all the time though and it sure is sad pathetic. But you know what they're trying to say is "see KT is poor!" while "we're rich!". LOL Yeah, right.
| 574 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:26:33am |
re: #540 Gus 802
Little Green Footballs has evolved into irrelevance!!11ty Charles Johnson's OPINION MEANS NOTHING!!11ty
LOL Yeah right.
| 576 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:28:29am |
re: #564 SanFranciscoZionist
There are people who are really into kitlers. (These people are not helping by only photographing her with one forelimb raised, btw.)
It is hardly the cat's fault it looks like Hitler--it's Hitler's fault for having a stupid distinctive mustache and hairdo. Just consider that the cat looks like Charlie Chaplin instead, and someone adopt her already.
And change the name!
You are now manually trying to translate this speech into lolcat.
| 577 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:30:13am |
My ass hurts.
1 hour later...
BREAKING NEWS!!11ty GUS_802's ASS HURTS!!11ty
Hurdy hurr hurr a derpity derpy dooo!!11ty
DERP
| 578 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:31:55am |
re: #569 Killgore Trout
Speaking of frogs: It looks like most of the tads have grown legs and left the pond. There's a few late bloomers left but not many. I also noticed that some of the plants closest to the pond were getting overrun by aphids last week but now are completely bug free.
Frogs go in, aphids go out. You can't explain that.
| 579 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:32:16am |
My elderly, sharp-as-a-whip, and very, very leftist great-aunt has forwarded me one of those '28th Amendment, make Congress use the same health care as the rest of America' e-mails.
As God is my witness, I don't know what to do.
| 580 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:32:30am |
OT, but we now know why General Younis was killed a few days ago:
Finance Minister Ali Tarhouni, a prominent member of the NTC, said the suspect arrested in connection with the Younis assassination was a rebel militia leader whom the NTC had dispatched to arrest Younis and bring him back to Benghazi. Tarhouni said that the militia commander, whose name was not made public, claimed he was unable to stop his subordinates from shooting Younis and two of his aides instead of escorting them back to Benghazi as ordered. This account generally conformed to the claims of an eyewitness who made separate allegations earlier in the day, before Tarhouni spoke, blaming the attacks on members of the February 17th Martyrs' Brigade who allegedly claimed that Younis had their father killed several years earlier.
Unrelated revenge. Also, I think I heard somewhere is that this Martyr's Brigade is the Islamist portion of the rebels.
This could badly damage the Islamists in Libya.
| 582 |
Decatur Deb Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:34:48am |
re: #579 SanFranciscoZionist
My elderly, sharp-as-a-whip, and very, very leftist great-aunt has forwarded me one of those '28th Amendment, make Congress use the same health care as the rest of America' e-mails.
As God is my witness, I don't know what to do.
Single-payer punchline to follow---
| 583 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:35:41am |
re: #579 SanFranciscoZionist
My elderly, sharp-as-a-whip, and very, very leftist great-aunt has forwarded me one of those '28th Amendment, make Congress use the same health care as the rest of America' e-mails.
As God is my witness, I don't know what to do.
Send her to snopes?
| 584 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:35:46am |
Crazy Pam: Clarifying the Edit
Back in June 2007 I received an email from a disheartened reader in Norway who was bereft at the deterioration of the society and the lawlessness of life in Norway. It was a heartbreaking email, and I published it at the time: "Email from Norway."
After the massacre in Norway last week, I removed the following sentence from the email, as I found it insenstive and inappropriate: "We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast."
The sentence I edited is not an incitement to anything. It refers to self-defense, but I removed it in the light of recent horrific events in Norway. I thought it insensitive. Nothing more.
Everyone has a right to self-defense.
The idea that I am scrubbing my archives, or "evidence" as many liars are suggesting, is a blatant lie. I have changed nothing else. But that is irrelevant; destroying the counter jihad movement is paramount at this moment. Even more farfetched is the lie the lefties (and even the freepers) are advancing: that the email was written by Breivik. Insanity, folks.
Breivik did not write the letter. Many Norwegians see their country imploding. The email was not written by Breivik, and contrary to popular leftist belief, not every Norwegian is Anders Breivik.
The smear merchants and destroyers trying to tie me to Breivik are engaging in another fallacious attack on those of us who are fighting against supremacism, violence and evil.
This is orwellian propaganda.
| 585 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:36:17am |
re: #581 laZardo
I was asleep then. :P
After this, there will be a page today. However, it will only cover incidents and changes.
Zliten has not seen a change in a while.
The Islamists just shot themselves with a Rocket Launcher.
| 586 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:37:40am |
re: #584 Killgore Trout
Crazy Pam: Clarifying the Edit
Back in June 2007 I received an email from a disheartened reader in Norway who was bereft at the deterioration of the society and the lawlessness of life in Norway. It was a heartbreaking email, and I published it at the time: "Email from Norway."
After the massacre in Norway last week, I removed the following sentence from the email, as I found it insenstive and inappropriate: "We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast."
The sentence I edited is not an incitement to anything. It refers to self-defense, but I removed it in the light of recent horrific events in Norway. I thought it insensitive. Nothing more.
Everyone has a right to self-defense.
The idea that I am scrubbing my archives, or "evidence" as many liars are suggesting, is a blatant lie. I have changed nothing else. But that is irrelevant; destroying the counter jihad movement is paramount at this moment. Even more farfetched is the lie the lefties (and even the freepers) are advancing: that the email was written by Breivik. Insanity, folks.
Breivik did not write the letter. Many Norwegians see their country imploding. The email was not written by Breivik, and contrary to popular leftist belief, not every Norwegian is Anders Breivik.
The smear merchants and destroyers trying to tie me to Breivik are engaging in another fallacious attack on those of us who are fighting against supremacism, violence and evil.
This is orwellian propaganda.
Fixed.
| 587 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:37:57am |
Breivik did not write the letter. Many Norwegians see their country imploding. The email was not written by Breivik, and contrary to popular leftist belief, not every Norwegian is Anders Breivik.
Even more reason to give the information to the authorities. This person is paranoid, hateful and possibly heavily armed. The police need to investigate.
| 588 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:38:37am |
re: #584 Killgore Trout
The Whore of Babylon won't escape this one. LGF (among others) won't let her. Her explanation is transparently false.
Considering the events of the last week, I am pissed as hell at her.
| 589 |
prairiefire Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:39:17am |
re: #579 SanFranciscoZionist
Does it strike you as somewhat childish statement? Or an angry one?
| 590 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:39:22am |
| 591 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:40:34am |
re: #587 Killgore Trout
To Pam:
Actually, you little movement wasn't that popular in Norway, and was heavily shunned. Most people didn't see an issue. The Norwegians thought you were ignorant bigots.
They now see you as a bunch of genocidal fascists. This is a great improvement. For my side.
| 592 |
jaunte Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:41:58am |
re: #584 Killgore Trout
"I thought it insensitive. Nothing more."
'Making the truth less unpleasant' is one definition of Orwellian doublespeak.
| 593 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:42:26am |
re: #589 prairiefire
Does it strike you as somewhat childish statement? Or an angry one?
It's just a forwarded piece, and it's not as crazy-sounding as some of the ones in that genre--my MIL forwards the crazy ones, where Congress has special laws that they can't be prosecuted for sexual harassment, yadada.
If you're thinking Tante may be entering some form of dementia--I don't know, that's possible. Seems IMpossible, but she's an old lady...
| 594 |
prairiefire Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:44:41am |
re: #593 SanFranciscoZionist
I was just thinking that my very leftist mom has occasionally expressed more of a schoolyard "that'll teach 'em" reaction to the right. She can get quite emotional about it, as can I.
| 595 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:44:44am |
re: #585 ProLifeLiberal
I was asleep then. :P
After this, there will be a page today. However, it will only cover incidents and changes.
Zliten has not seen a change in a while.
The Islamists just shot themselves with a Rocket Launcher.
Nah, I think they're finally breaking out. Also my #510 links to a fresh page, should be on the Recent pages list.
| 596 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:44:47am |
re: #528 funky chicken
Sekrit Muslim worried about Islamists in Tahrir Square. How confusing:
[Link: www.theatlantic.com...]
It's actually very simple: Anyone who criticizes the "counter-Jihad" crowd must by definition be "pro-Jihad". Anything else would mean the CJs are wrong about something and their egos will not allow that possibility.
| 597 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:47:33am |
re: #584 Killgore Trout
Crazy Pam: Clarifying the Edit
"Self defense" is what that Geller follower john jay is claiming his anti-Muslim blog has been about all along.
an index of posts on self defense .... & original sources (at the posts) ....friends:
o.k., the secret is out. this is what this blog has always been about. this and only this.
my efforts have been to establish a coherent theory in support of the individual's right to exercise self defense against the aggressions and attacks of islam, and the jihad. this theory has been premised upon the philosophy serving as the bedrock of our organic documents, and upon the thoughts of antiquity, the very bedrock of our civilization.
| 599 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:50:02am |
Joseph Farah (one source of inspiration for Breivik on Biblical self-defense) in the same article called for his readers to stockpile weapons.
| 600 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:50:30am |
re: #595 laZardo
But you are coming from the stance that intervention is always wrong. This is an extreme position. In addition, considering the state of things in Libya right now, these Islamists will be seen as being a help to Qaddafi. Very bad thing for them.
Look at how Bosnia and Kosovo turned out. Not great, but they still exist.
Also, your position aids and abets genocide. Many times, the weaker side will not be able to fight back, and will end up dead.
| 601 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:51:04am |
re: #596 Dark_Falcon
It's actually very simple: Anyone who criticizes the "counter-Jihad" crowd must by definition be "pro-Jihad". Anything else would mean the CJs are wrong about something and their egos will not allow that possibility.
Simple conclusions for simple minds.
| 602 |
albusteve Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:51:48am |
all these weeks and not even one reasonable, honest plan for spending has come out of DC...not one that impresses me anyway...our community is disorganized to say the least...fake pols, fake plans, fake deadlines, fake crisis....it's all pretty discouraging but on the bright side, the political theater is first rate....BO can't sleep, Boehner stuck his neck out, Pelosi can't save the planet, Cantor is drooling in the shadows...on and on....heros and martyrs and evil people are being bought and sold....the Grand Game
| 603 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:51:57am |
re: #596 Dark_Falcon
It's actually very simple: Anyone who criticizes the "counter-Jihad" crowd must by definition be "pro-Jihad". Anything else would mean the CJs are wrong about something and their egos will not allow that possibility.
We should find a new name for them. "Anti-Jihad" lends them legitimacy. I'm anti-Jihad. And I think Pam's antics make it likelier for Islamic radicals to succeed.
| 605 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:54:21am |
All the so-called "counter-Jihad" movement (which it isn't) does is cry "Wolf!".
| 606 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:54:32am |
re: #603 Sergey Romanov
We should find a new name for them. "Anti-Jihad" lends them legitimacy. I'm anti-Jihad. And I think Pam's antics make it likelier for Islamic radicals to succeed.
That's one of the goals of the Jihadists. They want more Pam Gellers. They want more Spencers. They want more Breiviks. These people are virtually playing into the Islamists hand. They want to foster hatred of Muslims in the USA as we've seen with the anti-Mosque movements. The anti-Islamic movements in America bolster their arguments with Muslim Americans. And so on.
| 608 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:55:05am |
re: #598 Gus 802
Reid's dramatic killing the GOP's bill leads to the McConnell blockading Reid's bill. That's fairly normal partisan tit-for-tat.
| 609 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:55:48am |
re: #603 Sergey Romanov
We should find a new name for them. "Anti-Jihad" lends them legitimacy. I'm anti-Jihad. And I think Pam's antics make it likelier for Islamic radicals to succeed.
How about "Anti-Islam Paranoids"?
| 610 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:56:42am |
re: #600 ProLifeLiberal
But you are coming from the stance that intervention is always wrong. This is an extreme position. In addition, considering the state of things in Libya right now, these Islamists will be seen as being a help to Qaddafi. Very bad thing for them.
Look at how Bosnia and Kosovo turned out. Not great, but they still exist.
Also, your position aids and abets genocide. Many times, the weaker side will not be able to fight back, and will end up dead.
The Balkans ≠ MENA.
And often times the "weaker side" cannot fight back because we happen to actively sponsor the governments that keep them down e.g. Egypt. Our track record of the past since, well, 1953(!) has us sponsoring douchebags against douchebags in that region and breeding resentment in return. You'd think that we'd learned what that does after 60 years. (The only real exception, of course, is Israel.)
Maybe, what if, we could try NOT doing that?
| 611 |
albusteve Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:56:52am |
re: #607 HoosierHoops
[Video]
I care about results...all the rest is bullshit and I see no reason to get all shook up about any of it
| 612 |
simoom Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:57:29am |
Is anyone watching the house floor debate? They're going to vote on some proxy for the Reid bill (even though it's still being constantly modified in the Senate to woo more Republicans), under a special house rule where it would only pass with 2/3rd of the House voting for it (a standard under which even Boehner's-tea-party-sweetened bill wouldn't have passed).
Here's the cspan live feed:
[Link: www.c-span.org...]
The House will consider it under a special rule where a 2/3 majority is required for passage
| 613 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:58:40am |
re: #612 simoom
Is anyone watching the house floor debate? They're going to vote on some proxy for the Reid bill (even though it's still being constantly modified in the Senate to woo more Republicans), under a special house rule where it would only pass with 2/3rd of the House voting for it (a standard under which even Boehner's-tea-party-sweetened bill wouldn't have passed).
Here's the cspan live feed:
[Link: www.c-span.org...]
It's designed to flip Reid the bird.
| 614 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 10:59:03am |
re: #608 Dark_Falcon
Reid's dramatic killing the GOP's bill leads to the McConnell blockading Reid's bill. That's fairly normal partisan tit-for-tat.
True. We'll see how this plays out. But they better hurry up. Reid only needs to add 3 or more votes to his bill. He may have to amend his bill in order to get those votes. Scott Brown as you might have noticed did not sign that letter.
| 615 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:01:41am |
re: #610 laZardo
Issue with your theory:
Libya wasn't one of these nations we were propping up. Remember the 80's?
In some cases, attack is a valid option.
And the Balkans may have different Ethnic Groups, but many of the issues there are also in the Middle East.
| 616 |
simoom Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:02:01am |
re: #613 Dark_Falcon
It's designed to flip Reid the bird.
Sure, but I wonder if it actually means anything. Can you vote down a proxy bill that is different from whatever the final Senate product looks like, and have it apply to that final product when and if it passes the Senate? It seems if you could it would allow all sorts of interesting shenanigans.
| 617 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:02:50am |
re: #614 Gus 802
True. We'll see how this plays out. But they better hurry up. Reid only needs to add 3 or more votes to his bill. He may have to amend his bill in order to get those votes. Scott Brown as you might have noticed did not sign that letter.
It would need major changes to get people to drop away from a signed statement of opposition. And those up for reelection cannot support any Democratic bill right now or they'll get a vigorous primary challenge from the Tea Party.
| 618 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:03:21am |
Keep wasting time on meaningless bullshit. Thats the way to make sure shit gets done.
| 619 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:03:45am |
re: #615 ProLifeLiberal
Issue with your theory:
Libya wasn't one of these nations we were propping up. Remember the 80's?
How can I put it this way...we were propping up Saddam because he happened to be less of a douchebag than Khomeini. When Gaddafi gave up his WMDs, well, we treated him as such vis-a-vis Kim Jong-Il and, surprise, Saddam.
| 620 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:04:58am |
re: #617 Dark_Falcon
It would need major changes to get people to drop away from a signed statement of opposition. And those up for reelection cannot support any Democratic bill right now or they'll get a vigorous primary challenge from the Tea Party.
Well. They can either vote with minor changes on Reid's bill or be the cause of putting the USA in default. Seems like they have a choice here.
| 621 |
simoom Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:06:27am |
re: #617 Dark_Falcon
And those up for reelection cannot support any Democratic bill right now or they'll get a vigorous primary challenge from the Tea Party.
I really hope that isn't the case, though I suppose it would clearly illustrate the folly of tying hyper-partisan, core party policy debates (on an unprecedented, epic, multi-trillion dollar scale) to must-pass-for-the-sake-of-the-country legislation
| 622 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:07:03am |
re: #619 laZardo
True.
But how much did we give Libya? Next to nothing.
Your knee-jerk opposition to any sort of anti-genocide intervention is getting grating.
For heaven's sake, Sweden decided to attack!! We are on the right track if they do that.
| 623 |
Renaissance_Man Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:07:57am |
re: #620 Gus 802
Well. They can either vote with minor changes on Reid's bill or be the cause of putting the USA in default. Seems like they have a choice here.
Yes, it comes down to which is worse: precipitating the decline of the United States of America, the greatest nation of the last 200 years, or compromising with people you think are liberals. Unfortunately, I can guess which choice the cult hates more.
| 624 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:08:28am |
| 625 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:10:13am |
re: #623 Renaissance_Man
Yes, it comes down to which is worse: precipitating the decline of the United States of America, the greatest nation of the last 200 years, or compromising with people you think are liberals. Unfortunately, I can guess which choice the cult hates more.
There you go. Right now one could think what's worse? Going with Reid's bill or defaulting? I think the latter would be far worse even for the most devout conservative. Of course we're not dealing with conservatives in the traditional sense of the word anymore. Instead we're looking at a highly radicalized TPGOP.
| 626 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:10:58am |
re: #624 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Anti-Muslim works better. It's anti-individual v. anti-ideology (any religion is ideology which can be opposed) and so is better.
| 627 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:12:16am |
re: #622 ProLifeLiberal
True.
But how much did we give Libya? Next to nothing.
Your knee-jerk opposition to any sort of anti-genocide intervention is getting grating.
For heaven's sake, Sweden decided to attack!! We are on the right track if they do that.
Sweden wouldn't take part in it if they knew they weren't getting something out of it. Like a source of oil that wasn't from Russia, which I mentioned likes to use it as leverage.
I could concede that if the rationale is that an unstable state next to NATO would have threatening implications for future security, then it would be best to stabilize it. If Syria did move into the Turkish refugee camps, then Turkey has the right to defend itself. But regime change?
Haven't we proved over the last 60 years that it doesn't exactly work the way we want it to?
| 628 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:12:35am |
re: #620 Gus 802
Well. They can either vote with minor changes on Reid's bill or be the cause of putting the USA in default. Seems like they have a choice here.
Then they'll accept the default. They can't throw down with the Tea Party right now, as they'd just lose.
| 629 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:12:54am |
| 630 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:13:39am |
Guys--
I have a bunch of small files to e-mail to someone. What's the best method for doing this?
| 631 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:14:06am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
Winrar?
| 632 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:14:22am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
Guys--
I have a bunch of small files to e-mail to someone. What's the best method for doing this?
Use you computer.
/
| 633 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:14:31am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
Guys--
I have a bunch of small files to e-mail to someone. What's the best method for doing this?
Zip and put on a site like sendspace.com, then send them the link.
| 634 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:14:36am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
Guys--
I have a bunch of small files to e-mail to someone. What's the best method for doing this?
| 635 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:14:49am |
| 636 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:15:07am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
Guys--
I have a bunch of small files to e-mail to someone. What's the best method for doing this?
What seems to be the problem, officer? /
| 637 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:15:23am |
| 638 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:15:52am |
EDITING THE CLARIFIER
Back in June 2007 I received an email from a
disheartenedpsycho reader in Norway who wasbereft atdelusional about the deterioration of the society and the lawlessness of life in Norway. It was aheartbreakingthreatening email, and I published it at the time: "Email from Norway."After the massacre in Norway last week, I removed the following sentence from the email, as I found it
insenstive and inappropriateincriminating and inciting: "We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast."The sentence I edited is
notan incitement to anything. It refers to a paranoid's need for self-defense, but I removed it in the light of recent horrific events in Norway. I thought itinsensitivewould get me in trouble. Nothing more.Everyone has a right to threaten others in self-defense.
...etc.
| 639 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:16:57am |
@Petabites Petabites
19% of children in #Boehner district in poverty: [Link: halfinten.org...] via @BlueDuPage
| 640 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:17:29am |
OK--now, HOW do I zip it?
And if you tell me 'zip it good', I will cry.
| 641 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:18:21am |
re: #639 Gus 802
@Petabites Petabites
19% of children in #Boehner district in poverty: [Link: halfinten.org...] via @BlueDuPage
Means nothing, proves nothing.
| 642 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:18:44am |
I have no trouble with "anti-Jihad", I am not in favor of anyone imposing their religion on others by force. But to these people all Muslims are jihadists or jihad supporters.
| 643 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:19:16am |
re: #640 SanFranciscoZionist
OK--now, HOW do I zip it?
And if you tell me 'zip it good', I will cry.
In an Explorer window...
File > New > Compressed (zipped) folder
And then treat it like any other folder.
| 644 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:19:19am |
re: #640 SanFranciscoZionist
OK--now, HOW do I zip it?
And if you tell me 'zip it good', I will cry.
I suppose you use windows? I don't remember if it has built-in zip capabilities. You can google for WinZip, WinRar or 7z which are shareware programs. Download, install, run, ask if necessary.
| 645 |
Kragar Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:19:33am |
re: #630 SanFranciscoZionist
Guys--
I have a bunch of small files to e-mail to someone. What's the best method for doing this?
Zip them into a single archive, send that file
| 646 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:19:39am |
re: #643 laZardo
In an Explorer window...
File > New > Compressed (zipped) folder
And then treat it like any other folder.
Thanks.
| 647 |
AK-47% Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:19:41am |
re: #641 Dark_Falcon
Means nothing, proves nothing.
They probably all have refrigerators and microwaves...
/
| 648 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:20:11am |
re: #643 laZardo
In an Explorer window...
File > New > Compressed (zipped) folder
And then treat it like any other folder.
Ah, that must be it. As Lazardo says.
| 649 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:20:34am |
re: #641 Dark_Falcon
Means nothing, proves nothing.
Yeah. You're right. They probably have air conditioning.
//
| 650 |
Killgore Trout Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:20:48am |
| 651 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:21:08am |
re: #647 ralphieboy
They probably all have refrigerators and microwaves...
/
LOL See #649. Typed that before I saw yours.
| 652 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:21:13am |
I myself use only WinRar, so I have no idea if Windows has this feature or not ;)
| 653 |
wrenchwench Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:21:19am |
re: #641 Dark_Falcon
Means nothing, proves nothing.
It may not prove anything, but it certainly means something.
Have a heart.
| 654 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:21:50am |
re: #647 ralphieboy
They probably all have refrigerators and microwaves...
/
Actually, the great majority of them probably do.
| 655 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:22:19am |
re: #628 Dark_Falcon
Then they'll accept the default. They can't throw down with the Tea Party right now, as they'd just lose.
...
WE HAVE NOT CHOICE BUT TO DEFAULT NOW BECAUSE TEH DEMOCRATES MADE ME DO IT!!11ty
TEA PARTY!!11ty
| 656 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:22:47am |
re: #627 laZardo
Sweden is right next to the Oil Producer Norway. So there goes that idea.
| 657 |
goddamnedfrank Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:24:19am |
re: #641 Dark_Falcon
Means nothing, proves nothing.
It means that damn near 1 in 5 children living in his district live in poverty while he fights to lower taxes on the wealthiest few Americans. It proves that both his and your priorities are complete and utter garbage.
| 658 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:27:00am |
re: #657 goddamnedfrank
It means that damn near 1 in 5 children living in his district live in poverty while he fights to lower taxes on the wealthiest few Americans. It proves that both his and your priorities are complete and utter garbage.
...
YEAH BUT TEH BUSH TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH MAKE JOBS!!11ty
For BMW, De Beers, Rolls Royce, Grumman, Rolex...
| 659 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:28:32am |
I saw this pic in an ad here:
[Link: googleads.g.doubleclick.net...]
Is this a pie? Or some monster pizza?
| 660 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:30:01am |
re: #659 Sergey Romanov
I saw this pic in an ad here:
[Link: googleads.g.doubleclick.net...]
Is this a pie? Or some monster pizza?
Looks like a Pizza Cake™.
//
| 661 |
albusteve Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:30:09am |
re: #659 Sergey Romanov
I saw this pic in an ad here:
[Link: googleads.g.doubleclick.net...]
Is this a pie? Or some monster pizza?
quiche?....looks yummy
| 662 |
engineer cat Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:31:25am |
if higher taxes and more social services lead to economic decline, how come millionaires buy all their cars from germany, the uk, and italy - where unemployment has been lower than over here for the past few years - and we borrow most of the money to fund wars and run our government from communist china?
can some defender of the republican party answer this for me please?
| 663 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:31:53am |
| 664 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:32:07am |
| 665 |
blueraven Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:32:36am |
re: #608 Dark_Falcon
Reid's dramatic killing the GOP's bill leads to the McConnell blockading Reid's bill. That's fairly normal partisan tit-for-tat.
The Boehner bill, with its BBA, was ridiculous and I think you know it. McConnell refuses to even negotiate with Reid. People should really stop with the false equivalency.
There is a plan by the dems, with no increased revenue, spending cuts that the republicans demand and still they wont take this as a victory and stop putting the entire economy in peril.
They have ulterior motives; to try to harm the president as much as possible. Torpedoes be damned, full speed ahead.
| 666 |
blueraven Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:34:07am |
re: #613 Dark_Falcon
It's designed to flip Reid the bird.
It is petty and dangerous political posturing.
| 667 |
Gus Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:34:37am |
re: #665 blueraven
The Boehner bill, with its BBA, was ridiculous and I think you know it. McConnell refuses to even negotiate with Reid. People should really stop with the false equivalency.
There is a plan by the dems, with no increased revenue, spending cuts that the republicans demand and still they wont take this as a victory and stop putting the entire economy in peril.
They have ulterior motives; to try to harm the president as much as possible. Torpedoes be damned, full speed ahead.
"I want Obama to fail." Rush Limbaugh (and the rest of the right wing)
| 668 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:34:38am |
re: #656 ProLifeLiberal
Sweden is right next to the Oil Producer Norway. So there goes that idea.
Then perhaps they were obligated to as "members" of NATO. I hardly see how Libya would affect Sweden personally as compared to their obligations to a regional organization. The Mediterranean countries, more likely.
| 669 |
ProGunLiberal Sat, Jul 30, 2011 11:56:17am |
re: #668 laZardo
Sweden isn't part of NATO.
| 670 |
laZardo Sat, Jul 30, 2011 12:00:45pm |
re: #669 ProLifeLiberal
...then why the hell are they interested in Libya, and how does it directly affect them?
| 671 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Jul 30, 2011 12:07:18pm |
re: #670 laZardo
...then why the hell are they interested in Libya, and how does it directly affect them?
Because they can get oil from Libya. They'd rather get oil from there than from Russia, since Russia often uses its status as an energy supplier for leverage.
| 672 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Sat, Jul 30, 2011 12:24:45pm |
re: #166 Obdicut
What would you accept as evidence that the Nazis were not exterminationist from the beginning?
Some kind of Nazi proposition that a) let Jews off the hook and b) ensured that this was not just temporarily, most likely by another Nazi proposition that would guarantee that they respected the sovereignty of other nation states.
And what is your proof that they were?
This is rather complex, but the gist of my argument is that the Nazis defined themselves as essentially anti-jewish (not anti-slav, although a lot of Nazis were extremely eager to define Slavs as subhumans and draw the conclusions thereof). Coupled with their equally essential Lebensraum agenda, this leads no other conclusion.
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