Pamela Geller Attacks Victims of Oslo Terrorist

Geller agrees with Anders Behring Breivik
Wingnuts • Views: 62,634

After spending a few days mouthing the expected rote denunciations of Oslo terrorist Anders Behring Breivik, Pamela Geller was clearly chafing at the bit to get back to her usual fare, and today she did just that by attacking Breivik’s victims: SUMMER CAMP? ANTISEMITIC INDOCTRINATION TRAINING CENTER!!!!!! - Atlas Shrugs.

She agrees with Breivik’s assessment of the camp, wholeheartedly. According to Geller, the children at the camp were being indoctrinated with “a pro-Islamic agenda,” and the “jihad-loving media” are hiding it from true patriots like her.

She’s careful to mouth more platitudes about deploring any kind of violence — except “self defense” — but then makes the same argument Breivik made: that the camp was turning out enemies of Western civilization.

If you follow Geller’s argument to its sickening logical conclusion, it leads directly to Anders Behring Breivik.

GrotesqueThe day of the Norway shooting, I was blindsided by one of the survivor’s statements to the press immediately after the shooting (see above). It was so outside the box, I thought it was the kneejerk response of an anti-semite in shock. I didn’t blog on it because I thought it anecdotal, badly anecdotal. But the more that is revealed about that youth indoctrination center, the more grotesque the whole story becomes. Of course, the genocidal leftists will twist what I write here; I am not condoning the slaughter in Norway or anywhere. I abhor violence (except in regard to self defense). But the jihad-loving media never told us what antisemitic war games they were playing on that island. Utoya Island is a Communist/Socialist campground, and they clearly had a pro-Islamic agenda.

Only the malevolent media could use the euphemism summer camp and get away with it.

The slaughter was horrific. What these kids were being taught and instructed to do was a different kind of grotesque. There is no justification for Breivik’s actions whatsoever. There is also no justification for Norway’s antisemitism and demonization of Israel.

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1062 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 3:55:51pm

And she goes openly racist too, caption under a photo: "Note the faces which are more MIddle Eastern or mixed than pure Norwegian"

2 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 3:59:21pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

And she goes openly racist too, caption under a photo: "Note the faces which are more MIddle Eastern or mixed than pure Norwegian"

To be accurate, though, those aren't her words. They're from the anti-Muslim blog she's re-posting.

3 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 3:59:37pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

And she goes openly racist too, caption under a photo: "Note the faces which are more MIddle Eastern or mixed than pure Norwegian"

Does she know that as a Jew, she looks "Middle Eastern" too? Or is she under the impression that her white nationalist friends have accepted her as an honorary white person?

4 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:00:22pm

re: #2 Charles

To be accurate, though, those aren't her words. They're from the anti-Muslim blog she's re-posting.

Thanks! Correction: Pamela agrees with an openly racist posting.

5 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:00:37pm

re: #2 Charles

To be accurate, though, those aren't her words. They're from the anti-Muslim blog she's re-posting.

Ah, ok.

6 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:02:34pm

She's accomplishing a couple things with this post. She's strengthening her ideological ties to the killer. What's even worse is she turning the attacks into a Pro-Israel event. Israel has enough image problems in Europe and this certainly isn't going to help.

7 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:03:01pm

The definition of “self defense” keeps expanding.

"What these kids were being taught and instructed to do was a different kind of grotesque."


Therefore...

8 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:03:05pm
"I abhor violence (except in regard to self defense). But..."

And that ends the discussion, there are no buts

Either you condone the targeting of children, which she has now done, or you don't. She's the radical imam of the Counter-Jihad.

9 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:04:05pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

And relations between Israel and Norway have been frosty for decades.

I don't think I need to explain the Lillehammer Affair.

10 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:04:55pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

What's even worse is she turning the attacks into a Pro-Israel event.

Which is exactly what her counterparts in eliminationism like whatreallyhappened and others screaming "Christian Zionism!!!!" have been doing from the outset.

Sounds like she's listening to them.

11 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:05:29pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

That's exactly what CL has been writing about today in comments to one of the pages.

12 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:06:41pm

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

And she goes openly racist too, caption under a photo: "Note the faces which are more MIddle Eastern or mixed than pure Norwegian"

Like this one?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Juggs is one evil excuse for a human being. That beautiful 16-year old girl/woman, snuffed out by a right-wing fanatic, deserved to die?

Or any of the people in that series? Sorry, Pammy, but you need to go lick a dog's ass until it bleeds. You might find your humanity again in the process. You are so out of touch with the real world, at this point, that you are endorsing the actions of monsters wearing human meat suits.

13 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:07:48pm

There is something hopelessly funny about going to /b/ and reading 4chan's threads of praise for ABB.

14 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:08:48pm

re: #13 laZardo

What's funny?

15 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:08:55pm

re: #13 laZardo

There is something hopelessly funny about going to /b/ and reading 4chan's threads of praise for ABB.

"Funny" is one word. I prefer "appalling".

16 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:10:13pm

re: #12 austin_blue

Like this one?

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Juggs is one evil excuse for a human being. That beautiful 16-year old girl/woman, snuffed out by a right-wing fanatic, deserved to die?

Or any of the people in that series? Sorry, Pammy, but you need to go lick a dog's ass until it bleeds. You might find your humanity again in the process. You are so out of touch with the real world, at this point, that you are endorsing the actions of monsters wearing human meat suits.

I wonder if the black girl in that slideshow (#3) is the black girl in the photo Pam links to. The smile is the same.

17 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:10:17pm

re: #8 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And that ends the discussion, there are no buts

Either you condone the targeting of children, which she has now done, or you don't. She's the radical imam of the Counter-Jihad.

This was inevitable. Justify police brutality against minorities, justify killing abortion doctors, now justify killing innocent children for having the wrong political views. If you give these people an inch they will take it a mile. Eventually they will show themselves for the misanthropists and tribalists they are. They hate everyone who they don't see as being like them. Peak wingnut was a lie!

18 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:11:59pm

re: #3 moderatelyradicalliberal

Does she know that as a Jew, she looks "Middle Eastern" too? Or is she under the impression that her white nationalist friends have accepted her as an honorary white person?

My god! Cognitive dissonance form Juggs? That's...that's unpossible!

19 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:12:16pm

re: #16 Killgore Trout

I wonder if the black girl in that slideshow (#3) is the black girl in the photo Pam links to. The smile is the same.

2 different people.

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:12:35pm

To remind everyone of her recent excuse:

After the massacre in Norway last week, I removed the following sentence from the email, as I found it insenstive and inappropriate: "We are stockpiling and caching weapons, ammunition and equipment. This is going to happen fast."
21 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:12:40pm

re: #9 ProLifeLiberal

And relations between Israel and Norway have been frosty for decades.

I don't think I need to explain the Lillehammer Affair.

Please do explain it, for me. I'm not familiar.

22 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:12:52pm

I can't decide if she's worse than Schlussel or not.

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

23 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:13:06pm

I said it earlier but I'll say it again, I didn't think it was possible for Pam to get any more morally depraved but she just did it. The attacks on these victims has been terrible.

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:13:49pm

re: #22 000G

I can't decide if she's worse than Schlussel or not.

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

She just stooped down to Debbie's level.

25 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:14:14pm

We saw this same exact mentality from segregationist agitation a generation ago.

Ooo there's a nonwhite in that group! Race mixing is communism!!!!

They haven't even bothered to update the picket signs, they just dusted them off.

26 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:14:49pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

It was a botched assassination:
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

27 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:15:08pm

re: #22 000G

I can't decide if she's worse than Schlussel or not.

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

Wow, I think I have to give Debbie the "win"

As I wrote yesterday, while I condemn terrorism including Breivik’s actions, this is Alien v. Predator for me. I don’t feel sorry in the least for those who die while cheering on my destruction. That’s what those shot at this camp did. I shed no tears for them
28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:15:11pm

re: #25 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Charles had a post on this, consisting of a photo. Causes much butthurt in the wingnutosphere.

29 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:15:20pm

Please tell me this woman does not have children. No woman with a single maternal bone in her body could have this attitude. I refuse to believe it. All of those children were someone's baby. Please tell me she has no babies of her own. PLEASE!

30 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:15:41pm

The picture of those kids in a boat is a picture of the Socialist Youth. That's the youth-wing of the Socialist Left, and not the same as the Labour Youth.

Excellent research, there.

31 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:16:00pm

re: #6 Killgore Trout

She's accomplishing a couple things with this post. She's strengthening her ideological ties to the killer. What's even worse is she turning the attacks into a Pro-Israel event. Israel has enough image problems in Europe and this certainly isn't going to help.

Yeah, a couple of hate bloggers have tried to frame Breivik as a "zionist terrorist". Not helping, Pamela.

32 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:17:01pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Wow, I think I have to give Debbie the "win"

top shelf bigotry and paranoia....can't get anymore brazen in intent

33 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:17:04pm

re: #30 oslogin

The picture of those kids in a boat is a picture of the Socialist Youth. That's the youth-wing of the Socialist Left, and not the same as the Labour Youth.

Excellent research, there.

Heh, Nice catch. They are even hold up their own flag.

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:17:17pm

re: #30 oslogin

The picture of those kids in a boat is a picture of the Socialist Youth. That's the youth-wing of the Socialist Left, and not the same as the Labour Youth.

Excellent research, there.

Wow. Can you make a page on that? Misc. photos are floating around and as none of us are familiar with them...

35 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:17:18pm

re: #25 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

We saw this same exact mentality from segregationist agitation a generation ago.

Ooo there's a nonwhite in that group! Race mixing is communism!!!

They haven't even bothered to update the picket signs, they just dusted them off.

Damn good point. We saw the same thing with Obama during and after the '08 campaign from the gaspers. These people are just shitbags and Santorum.

36 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:18:04pm

re: #31 000G

Yeah, a couple of hate bloggers have tried to frame Breivik as a "zionist terrorist". Not helping, Pamela.

37 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:18:12pm

re: #31 000G

Yeah, a couple of hate bloggers have tried to frame Breivik as a "zionist terrorist". Not helping, Pamela.

Popular idea amongst certain troofers in Norway.

38 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:18:51pm

Variations on this theme are making the rounds. It appears to be the new narrative. From Barry Rubin, whose blog I have see links to with some regularity in the LGF Pages. Added emphasis is mine:

The Region: The Oslo Syndrome
By BARRY RUBIN
07/31/2011 23:57

Many Europeans will accept terrorism against Israelis or even Americans; very few will applaud terrorism against fellow Europeans.

One of the most sensitive aspects of the murderous terrorist attack in Norway by a right-wing gunman is this irony: The youth camp he attacked was engaged in what was essentially (though the campers didn’t see it that way, no doubt) a pro-terrorist program.

The camp, run by Norway’s left-wing party, was lobbying for breaking the blockade of the terrorist Hamas regime in the Gaza Strip, and for immediate recognition of a Palestinian state, without that entity needing to do anything that would prevent it from being used as a terrorist base against Israel. They were justifying forces that had committed terrorism against Israelis, killing thousands of people like themselves.

Even to mention this irony is dangerous, since it might be taken to imply that the victims “had it coming.” The victims never deserve to be murdered by terrorists, even victims who think other victims “had it coming.” This is in no way a justification of that horrendous terrorist act. It’s the exact opposite: a vital but forgotten lesson arising from it that can and should save lives.

Call it the Oslo Syndrome.

[...]

Nevertheless, many people gave him the idea that terrorism would change minds, and bring victory. They weren’t those whose blogs he quoted a few times in a 1,500-page manifesto, and who explicitly rejected violence. It was the successful terrorists and their Western enablers who gave him the tactic he implemented.

More at the Jerusalem Post...

So there's no justification for the attacks whatsoever, and no one is blaming the victims, but if it wasn't for the radical nationalist and/or Islamist terrorists and their Western enablers, then....?

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:18:52pm

re: #37 oslogin

Popular idea amongst certain troofers in Norway.

Here in Russia it's Masonic Terrorist.

40 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:19:00pm

re: #4 Sergey Romanov

Thanks! Correction: Pamela agrees with an openly racist posting.

And like any classic demagogue, she hides behind the words of others to say super-heinous shyt, yet backs the ideas 100%. Again, Cynthia McKlanny comes to mind.

41 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:19:01pm

At first I thought Glenn Beck's Nazi comment about the kids would surely be condemned by all sides. It seems the "supporters of Israel" have fully adopted it. What a disaster to paint this as Pro-Israel terrorism. Amazing stupidity.

42 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:19:25pm

re: #34 Sergey Romanov

Wow. Can you make a page on that? Misc. photos are floating around and as none of us are familiar with them...

Good idea.

43 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:19:59pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

In the 1970's after the Munich Massacre, the Israelis went around assassinating the Terrorists involved.

There wasn't a problem until they had a case of mistaken identity in Norway, and killed a Norwegian of Moroccan descent living in Lillehammer, instead of the terrorist. This happened on July 21, 1973.

This ticked off Norway, and while there was compensation from Israel, there wasn't an apology to the victims family, and Israel didn't take responsibility publicly.

And that is much of the reason Israel and Norway have Ice-Age Cold relations.

44 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:20:55pm

re: #34 Sergey Romanov

Wow. Can you make a page on that? Misc. photos are floating around and as none of us are familiar with them...

Don't really have the time now. But see the logo on their flag?
This is the Socialist Left Youth: [Link: www.su.no...]
This is the Labour Youth: [Link: auf.no...]

Not that their ideas on Israel are that far off from each other; they both have been calling for a boycott. As if it bloody matters.

45 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:20:55pm

re: #43 ProLifeLiberal

In the 1970's after the Munich Massacre, the Israelis went around assassinating the Terrorists involved.

There wasn't a problem until they had a case of mistaken identity in Norway, and killed a Norwegian of Moroccan descent living in Lillehammer, instead of the terrorist. This happened on July 21, 1973.

This ticked off Norway, and while there was compensation from Israel, there wasn't an apology to the victims family, and Israel didn't take responsibility publicly.

And that is much of the reason Israel and Norway have Ice-Age Cold relations.

Quite a problem with assassinations (as opposed to proper judicial procedure).

46 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:22:18pm

re: #30 oslogin

The picture of those kids in a boat is a picture of the Socialist Youth. That's the youth-wing of the Socialist Left, and not the same as the Labour Youth.

Excellent research, there.

Once the rwnj blogs find that out, that will give them another excuse to get out those old anti-busing, anti-lunch counter signage.

Image: 3915033457_0d36d4bc5d.jpg

47 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:22:36pm

re: #15 austin_blue

"Funny" is one word. I prefer "appalling".

That's what makes them so funny. It's revealing about what kind of people seriously espouse those views.

48 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:22:56pm

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

Here in Russia it's Masonic Terrorist.

Yeah, that one is much mentioned, too. With is Freemasonry regalia, he sort of made sure of that. I never thought I'd say this, but I really feel sorry for the Freemasons.

49 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:23:08pm

re: #47 laZardo

Basically, in TVTropes terms, it's crossing the line twice.

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:23:15pm

re: #44 oslogin

Maybe a silly question, but could SU have been present in the camp? That's basically the question - are the photos from the camp?

51 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:23:19pm

re: #23 HappyWarrior

I said it earlier but I'll say it again, I didn't think it was possible for Pam to get any more morally depraved but she just did it. The attacks on these victims has been terrible.

I am in complete agreement. This just enrages me. I would think that every normal human in New York who runs into Juggs on the street would p**** her in the nose. Hard.

52 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:24:00pm

re: #29 moderatelyradicalliberal

Please tell me this woman does not have children. No woman with a single maternal bone in her body could have this attitude. I refuse to believe it. All of those children were someone's baby. Please tell me she has no babies of her own. PLEASE!

I believe she has four daughters.

Unbelievable, eh?

53 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:24:25pm

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

Interesting question. The two of them (along with the Greens) are in coalition together.

54 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:24:40pm

I hate saying it but I have a pretty good feeling what the reaction would be if a bunch of liberal activists were killed by a white nationalist here in the US by some corners of the American right. We've already seen attempts to justify murder with Dr. Tiller in Kansas. This mindset really disturbs me- it's a mindset that think it's okay to harm someone physically because you don't like what they stand for. Shit, I despise modern conservatism but there is no way in hell I'd think that someone's ideology justifies cold blooded murder and Pam and her friends attempts to justify this anger me so much. The outright slander and libel of these kids has been awful to say the least.

55 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:24:41pm

re: #38 CuriousLurker

Variations on this theme are making the rounds. It appears to be the new narrative. From Barry Rubin, whose blog I have see links to with some regularity in the LGF Pages. Added emphasis is mine:

So there's no justification for the attacks whatsoever, and no one is blaming the victims, but if it wasn't for the radical nationalist and/or Islamist terrorists and their Western enablers, then...?

Damn, It's sad to see that in the Israeli press. I would think they'd have more sense to distance themselves from the pro-Israel aspect of the attack instead of embracing. The guy was an antisemite himself. This is all so glaringly stupid.

56 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:24:47pm

The "anti-Israeli indoctrination camp" meme is moving mighty fast. I spent yesterday chasing sources on one of the articles Geller cites, "The Sad Song of Norway: Its Antisemitic Refrain" by Daphne Ansom, and several of the sites she links to deploy it--though Geller's version (taken from a different antijihad site) is more severe.

It's a morbidly fascinating process. They've experimenting with ways to take this atrocity and re-frame it so they can keep hating Muslims and liberals. They've finally found their exploit--the camp was pro-Palestine--and they're going to wave it about like a badge.

They're inventing new exciting forms of kulaks and wreckers, and anybody who gets hurt by "their" side will suddenly fit that mould.

Never ceases to amaze me how the pattern fits regardless of the ascribed ideologu....

57 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:24:59pm

re: #52 wrenchwench

I believe she has four daughters.

Unbelievable, eh?

Oh, fuck.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:25:22pm

re: #48 oslogin

Yeah, that one is much mentioned, too. With is Freemasonry regalia, he sort of made sure of that. I never thought I'd say this, but I really feel sorry for the Freemasons.

Well, you know, here masonic is basically half-a-step from "Jewish" or "controlled by Jews". So not much different from "Zionist" in the end. Fascists are such fascists. And Pam doesn't help, as KT notes.

59 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:26:21pm

re: #37 oslogin

Popular idea amongst certain troofers in Norway.

That plus the masonic angle certainly gives a lot of red meat to certain like-minded people.

60 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:26:30pm

re: #50 Sergey Romanov

Maybe a silly question, but could SU have been present in the camp? That's basically the question - are the photos from the camp?

The Socialist Left and Labour are in government together, so it's not impossible that there were representatives from SU at Utøya. Haven't heard anything about it, though. They were going to have their summer camp from 26-31. July. At Utøya, too.

61 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:27:11pm

re: #45 Sergey Romanov

Quite a problem with assassinations (as opposed to proper judicial procedure).

That was not an option Israel was interested in. Many Europeans were pro-Palestinian and in any case the terrorists often used hijackings back then to free any of their number who were detained in Europe. Given that, plus the official opposition in Europe to capital punishment, Israel decided assassination was the way to go. For what its worth, i think they were right. The terrorists were scum who deserved to die.

62 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:27:16pm

re: #53 ProLifeLiberal

Interesting question. The two of them (along with the Greens) are in coalition together.

I'm in the Greens. We're tiny. The government is often spoken off as red-green, but the green comes from the Centre Party. Old Agrarian Party.

63 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:27:24pm

re: #49 ProLifeLiberal

Basically, in TVTropes terms, it's crossing the line twice.

TMIK.

/curse you tvtropes

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:28:01pm

re: #54 HappyWarrior

I hate saying it but I have a pretty good feeling what the reaction would be if a bunch of liberal activists were killed by a white nationalist here in the US by some corners of the American right. We've already seen attempts to justify murder with Dr. Tiller in Kansas.

I've said since 9/11 islamist bigots will NEVER attack my city.

There would be too much support in rwnj America for the attacks.

Same old eliminationists, different hats and facial hair, afaic.

This mindset really disturbs me- it's a mindset that think it's okay to harm someone physically because you don't like what they stand for.

They have a long, long, long history of it in the US, especially basing their presumptions of what someone stand for based on looks or perceived demographic. Lonnnnnnnng history.

65 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:28:16pm

re: #27 Killgore Trout

Wow, I think I have to give Debbie the "win"

Yup, that's a doozie. Evil, sociopathic, and pathetic all at the same time.

What kind of small little mind actually posts that? Those children had friends, family, people who loved them. Debbie turns them into meat.

Awful. Barbaric. Biblically Satanic.

66 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:28:30pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Damn, It's sad to see that in the Israeli press. I would think they'd have more sense to distance themselves from the pro-Israel aspect of the attack instead of embracing. The guy was an antisemite himself. This is all so glaringly stupid.

Barry Rubin. Enough said.

67 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:28:34pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

Damn, It's sad to see that in the Israeli press. I would think they'd have more sense to distance themselves from the pro-Israel aspect of the attack instead of embracing. The guy was an antisemite himself. This is all so glaringly stupid.

I think its just that some in Israel figure they'll never get a fair shake in Europe again anyway, so they've just decided to give Europe the finger.

68 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:29:54pm

re: #38 CuriousLurker

From Barry Rubin, whose blog I have see links to with some regularity in the LGF Pages.

Usually posted by EE and Eretz.

69 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:30:25pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

That was not an option Israel was interested in. Many Europeans were pro-Palestinian and in any case the terrorists often used hijackings back then to free any of their number who were detained in Europe. Given that, plus the official opposition in Europe to capital punishment, Israel decided assassination was the way to go. For what its worth, i think they were right. The terrorists were scum who deserved to die.

But what about the innocent guy? Really, people need to temper themselves to humanity. All humanity.

70 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:30:28pm

re: #51 austin_blue

I am in complete agreement. This just enrages me. I would think that every normal human in New York who runs into Juggs on the street would p*** her in the nose. Hard.

It's really gotten me angry. These were goddamn kids in the prime of their lives and goddamn Geller and her fascist friends are basically saying it's okay to murder people because you don't like their political views. And then as I said, they have the nerve to claim they are the real victims.

71 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:30:40pm

re: #64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I've said since 9/11 islamist bigots will NEVER attack my city.

There would be too much support in rwnj America for the attacks.

SF?

72 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:32:12pm

re: #69 Stanley Sea

But what about the innocent guy? Really, people need to temper themselves to humanity. All humanity.

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:32:18pm

re: #71 goddamnedfrank

SF?

Yep, right in the pocket.

74 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:32:44pm

re: #68 000G

Usually posted by EE and Eretz.

EE is no longer with us.

75 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:32:50pm

re: #62 oslogin

Here's an idea: One Color per party.

Center can be purple.

76 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:33:00pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But

e_e

77 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:33:46pm

re: #56 The Ghost of a Flea

Samson posted that on here.

78 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:34:18pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

I'm sorry, are you really saying the assassination of an innocent person was worthwhile because it showed terrorists Israel is not to be messed with?

79 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:35:21pm

re: #68 000G

Yeah, I don't remember who the last person was to link to his blog, but I know it wasn't that long ago.

80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:35:25pm

re: #78 Obdicut

I'm sorry, are you really saying the assassination of an innocent person was worthwhile because it showed terrorists Israel is not to be messed with?

Clichés about eggs and omlettes come to mind.

81 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:35:36pm

re: #78 Obdicut

I'm sorry, are you really saying the assassination of an innocent person was worthwhile because it showed terrorists Israel is not to be messed with?

my updingy isn't working. but upding.

immorality should not beget more immorality.

82 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:35:40pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

You should still own up to a mistake.

Though our country is one to take. I'm thinking of Iran Air 655 shootdown.

83 jvic  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:35:46pm

re: #69 Stanley Sea

But what about the innocent guy? Really, people need to temper themselves to humanity. All humanity.

Upding for good intentions, but that's not how most people react when they, correctly or not, perceive existential threats.

84 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:38:15pm

My internet connection keeps crapping out on me and the cable company can't come out till Tuesday, so I'm gonna stay pretty much in lurk mode till then. If I post something ad then don't respond, that'll be why.

85 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:38:31pm

re: #75 ProLifeLiberal

Here's an idea: One Color per party.

Center can be purple.

I'll let them know. Doubt they'll listen ;)

86 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:38:35pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

No offense DF but tell that to the guy's family that it was worth the cost. I am not anti Israel in the slightest but it's very easy for you to say that from a safe distance. What if you matched the description of a wanted terrorist and were killed?

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:39:41pm

re: #56 The Ghost of a Flea

They lie in several steps. First of all they equate anti-current-Israel-policy as antisemitic. Then they define pro-Palestinian as pro-Hamas. And voila - the camp was a camp of antisemitic pro-Hamasniks.

Except while I do hold it possible that some of the people there might have been motivated by antisemitic views (note the qualifiers), it does not follow from either anti-Israel-govt or pro-Palestinian descriptors alone. (Note that I don't say those views are not stupid or misguided; but stupid and misguided does not equal antisemitic).

88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:40:06pm

re: #83 jvic

Upding for good intentions, but that's not how most people react when they, correctly or not, perceive existential threats.

Usually true of state actors, always true of reactionary individuals. Not true, however, of nonviolent resistance for example.

Don't write it off as inconsequential: our country today would look quite different -- to the consternation of today's commie-baiters -- without it.

89 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:40:51pm

re: #78 Obdicut

I'm sorry, are you really saying the assassination of an innocent person was worthwhile because it showed terrorists Israel is not to be messed with?

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

90 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:41:01pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error.

Yes, apologies make everything better. If that was your your father would you have accepted an apology?

But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

It's interesting though how showing they're not to be messed with has spectacularly failed to keep people from messing with them.

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:41:17pm

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

That was not an option Israel was interested in. Many Europeans were pro-Palestinian and in any case the terrorists often used hijackings back then to free any of their number who were detained in Europe. Given that, plus the official opposition in Europe to capital punishment, Israel decided assassination was the way to go. For what its worth, i think they were right. The terrorists were scum who deserved to die.

Another problem with assassinations is that it's a two-edged sword. When somebody assassinates someone in states which themselves use assassinations, it would be interesting to hear the hypocritical complaints.

92 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:43:15pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

That's just weird.

93 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:43:47pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

What ratio of innocent to guilty death is worthwhile to you?


*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

Why do you insist on this odd terminology, which goes against all common usage and understanding of the term 'innocent person'?

94 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:43:57pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

That is a horrible way to dismiss a human life

95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:44:12pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

Worst
rationalization
ever

This is precisely the kind of mentality that ends up with blaming children for some conservative Christian-supremacist coming in and shooting them for an hour and a half.

96 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:44:37pm

re: #87 Sergey Romanov

They lie in several steps. First of all they equate anti-current-Israel-policy as antisemitic. Then they define pro-Palestinian as pro-Hamas. And voila - the camp was a camp of antisemitic pro-Hamasniks.

Except while I do hold it possible that some of the people there might have been motivated by antisemitic views (note the qualifiers), it does not follow from either anti-Israel-govt or pro-Palestinian descriptors alone. (Note that I don't say those views are not stupid or misguided; but stupid and misguided does not equal antisemitic).

You have to go further to the left than AUF to find pro-Hamas. Do they support a Palestinian state? Yes (and I agree). Are they very critical of Israel? Yes (and I agree with parts of their criticism, although I find other parts extremely one-eyed and misguided). Do they call for a boycott of Israel? Yes (and I wholeheartedly disagree).

Does any of that have any relevance whatsoever? No. Why do counterjihadist blogs suddenly bring it up? To blame the victims. How does that make them look? Like assholes.

97 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:45:20pm

re: #94 JasonA

That is a horrible way to dismiss a human life

Exactly. Collateral damage. Always justifiable. /

98 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:45:31pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

No offense DF but tell that to the guy's family that it was worth the cost. I am not anti Israel in the slightest but it's very easy for you to say that from a safe distance. What if you matched the description of a wanted terrorist and were killed?

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

99 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:45:49pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

This is the most heinous thing I have heard you say.

100 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:46:06pm

re: #87 Sergey Romanov

They lie in several steps. First of all they equate anti-current-Israel-policy as antisemitic. Then they define pro-Palestinian as pro-Hamas. And voila - the camp was a camp of antisemitic pro-Hamasniks.

Well put. More and more I've been using the terms elide and elision to describe this kind of purposeful blurring of concepts.

Except while I do hold it possible that some of the people there might have been motivated by antisemitic views (note the qualifiers), it does not follow from either anti-Israel-govt or pro-Palestinian descriptors alone. (Note that I don't say those views are not stupid or misguided; but stupid and misguided does not equal antisemitic).

Agreed.

I hate that the effectiveness of the elision-technique as propaganda is that the counter-claimant, if intellectually honest, has to spam qualifiers to straighten out what's actual versus overgeneralized. So you get a bold, certain statement countered by TL;DR.

101 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:46:15pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

Frankly, it does not look like the terrorists cared.

102 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:46:23pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Eh, conservatives...

103 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:47:06pm

re: #92 wrenchwench

That's just weird.

It's like an alternative version of original sin or something. Does a grown man with his full mental capabilities retain his innocence when he maintains his virginity?

104 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:47:25pm

re: #93 Obdicut

Why do you insist on this odd terminology, which goes against all common usage and understanding of the term 'innocent person'?

Couldn't tell you why. It just does not feel right. I even use it for myself.

But I won't use it again for this discussion, and I accept the legal definition as valid.

105 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:47:45pm

re: #96 oslogin

You have to go further to the left than AUF to find pro-Hamas. Do they support a Palestinian state? Yes (and I agree). Are they very critical of Israel? Yes (and I agree with parts of their criticism, although I find other parts extremely one-eyed and misguided). Do they call for a boycott of Israel? Yes (and I wholeheartedly disagree).

Does any of that have any relevance whatsoever? No. Why do counterjihadist blogs suddenly bring it up? To blame the victims. How does that make them look? Like assholes.

Like dumb eliminationist bigots.

So the non-Christian/wrong-kind-of-Christian cultural conservatives aboard this ship...just what do they believe throwing in with the Breiviks of the world will get them? /rhetorical q.

106 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:47:48pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

It wouldn't help anything. It would constitute a setback, as it did in the case we're talking about, ie: Mossad agents were prosecuted.

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:47:49pm

Why was there so much fuss about Litvinenko? I mean, it was just an assassination. ///

108 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:48:23pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

Absurd.

109 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:48:48pm

UGH. To be willing to die for the cause of: "cut(ting) the Islamists back"

You sound just like a religious terrorist Dark.

110 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:48:53pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

"Kill them all. For the Lord knows them that are His."
-Arnaud Amalric

Arnaud wasn't saying that they all deserved to die either, but he was similarly dismissive of the value and importance of innocence.

111 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:49:02pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

Couldn't tell you why. It just does not feel right. I even use it for myself.

But I won't use it again for this discussion, and I accept the legal definition as valid.

It's not the legal definition. It's just the common meaning of the phrase. To not use it does seem ostentatiously strange.

112 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:49:07pm

re: #103 000G

It's like an alternative version of original sin or something. Does a grown man with his full mental capabilities retain his innocence when he maintains his virginity?

Original sin was my first thought. I was going to ask him if he's Catholic, but decided it's none of my business and not relevant.

113 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:50:13pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

Couldn't tell you why. It just does not feel right. I even use it for myself.

Emotional response, not rational.

114 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:50:52pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

Congratulations on your jihadi mindset.

115 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:52:02pm

re: #111 Obdicut

It's not the legal definition. It's just the common meaning of the phrase. To not use it does seem ostentatiously strange.

True, it is.

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:53:12pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Congratulations on your jihadi mindset.

But the liberal muslim nazis are ruining the west. Something must be done. Nobody messes with us!///

117 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:53:17pm

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

Another problem with assassinations is that it's a two-edged sword. When somebody assassinates someone in states which themselves use assassinations, it would be interesting to hear the hypocritical complaints.

Funny you should mention it.

118 windsagio  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:53:48pm

no respect for original sin up in here

119 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:54:27pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Congratulations on your jihadi mindset.

That's going too far. There really are radical jihadis who would like to commit terrorist acts on the US and kill Americans. Many soldiers, police officers, etc. would happily die to prevent such an attack.

120 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:54:36pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Congratulations on your jihadi mindset.

How so? I am not saying I'm willing to kill innocent people*, what I said was that I myself would be willing to die if it would help defeat the enemy. That's not Jihadi thought.


*= I said I would use the normal definition of the term and meant it.

121 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:54:45pm

BTW, I'm not saying assassinations shouldn't ever be used. But only as the absolute extremely rare solution to an otherwise intractable problem, that will save lives from an *imminent* danger. Not for fucking revenge.

122 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:55:01pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

I didn't say anything about Islamists. Could be any kind of terrorist or criminal for that matter. Now, I don't know your parents obviously but I think yours or any would be pissed off to hell if a professional organization was sloppy and got their loved one killed and pissed off is putting it mildly. I understand why the Mossad did what they did after Black September but that man's death was a tragedy.

123 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:55:03pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

The problem with performing a cost/benefit ratio in this case is giving the potential benefit a much higher weighting than the definite cost. On top of that you are reducing a human life to a mere number so that the cost can be emotionally acceptable. I understand the military thought processes in this but I really don't agree with it. The potential benefit isn't based on an understanding of human nature but on a frequently wrong common sense evaluation and the cost doesn't take into consideration the cost to humans other than the victim.

This epitomizes the difference in thought processes between authoritarians and liberals towards other humans.

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:55:14pm

re: #117 laZardo

Funny you should mention it.

It's war.

125 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:56:15pm

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

Especially not when you're aiming at the wrong guy.

126 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:56:41pm

Not a single once of remorse. Not a single second of introspection. Instead, Pamela Geller digs deeper into her extremist reactionary pit of a mind. What a repulsive human being.

127 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:57:19pm

re: #91 Sergey Romanov

Another problem with assassinations is that it's a two-edged sword. When somebody assassinates someone in states which themselves use assassinations, it would be interesting to hear the hypocritical complaints.

Being hypocritical only matters in a debate, it isn't practical to worry about it when lives are at risk.

128 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:58:21pm

re: #126 Gus 802

Not a single once of remorse. Not a single second of introspection. Instead, Pamela Geller digs deeper into her extremist reactionary pit of a mind. What a repulsive human being.

Her empathy is broken. Has been for a long time. Maybe she never had any.

129 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:58:35pm

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

BTW, I'm not saying assassinations shouldn't ever be used. But only as the absolute extremely rare solution to an otherwise intractable problem, that will save lives from an *imminent* danger. Not for fucking revenge.

Strongly agreed. Hell though, didn't the Mossad capture Adolf Eichmann alive to see if they had the right guy? They were 99% sure from what I know about what happened in Buenos Aires but I am almost positive they took him alive because of some doubt. What's more is he got a trial and this was the architect of the Holocaust here with the blood of millions of innocent men, women, and children on his hands.

130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:58:52pm

re: #118 windsagio

no respect for original sin up in here

OS has to be one of the world's most anti-humanity, anti-childbirth ideologies, ever. That's why I find the eliminationist hate of liberals under the guise of "innocent life" being lost via abortion, so ironic.

Once you're born, you are guilty of the sin of having been born. Hey, once you're born, you are fair game unless you've had some of our magic water sprinkled on you.

131 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:59:19pm

I find it weird that now even the Palestinian terrorists of the 70s are getting lumped in with the modern day Islamist terrorists. Groups like the PFLP aren't exactly religious warriors.

132 Lidane  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:59:33pm

I said this downstairs and I'll say it again -- for someone who makes a big deal out of her Jewish heritage, Pam is sure quick to excuse genocide, like the one in Srebrenica, and to excuse the actions of a mass murderer because she "understands" his motives.

What. The. Fuck.

She's insane. Flat out. There's no buts, no understanding, no anything when it comes to these Norway attacks. If you have to make any kind of excuses for it, then fuck off.

133 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:59:43pm

re: #128 wrenchwench

Her empathy is broken. Has been for a long time. Maybe she never had any.

That to me is the sign of bad people. No empathy. We see it so often now.

134 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 4:59:45pm

re: #121 Sergey Romanov

BTW, I'm not saying assassinations shouldn't ever be used. But only as the absolute extremely rare solution to an otherwise intractable problem, that will save lives from an *imminent* danger. Not for fucking revenge.

I give the Israelis a bit of slack, they are in a tough spot. I don't mind the Nazi Hunters. Their assassination policy is a bit liberal but it does serve a purpose. Everyone on an Israeli hit list lives in pretty constant fear. I would guess that most of the targets deserve to be on the list.
Obama has adopted a pretty liberal assassination policy and I like it. Better than a room at Gitmo followed by a trial.

135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:01:12pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

How so? I am not saying I'm willing to kill innocent people*, what I said was that I myself would be willing to die if it would help defeat the enemy. That's not Jihadi thought.

*= I said I would use the normal definition of the term and meant it.

Too late - you've already revealed what you mean by "innocence".

Hey we're all guilty of something...so what if Israel happened to break the wrong egg that time.

He was guilty of something, so let's not make the grave error of calling a sentient human being "innocent".

Lol oh brother.

136 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:01:43pm

re: #122 HappyWarrior

I didn't say anything about Islamists. Could be any kind of terrorist or criminal for that matter. Now, I don't know your parents obviously but I think yours or any would be pissed off to hell if a professional organization was sloppy and got their loved one killed and pissed off is putting it mildly. I understand why the Mossad did what they did after Black September but that man's death was a tragedy.

That much I entirely agree with.

137 Lidane  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:01:50pm

re: #130 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

OS has to be one of the world's most anti-humanity, anti-childbirth ideologies, ever.

I have to agree. I despise the concept of original sin.

Also, the whole doctrine of original sin is sexist on its face. Because the Fall of Man was supposedly Eve's fault, being born of a woman means you've been stained with the sin of being born at all until you repent for it and get baptized.

It's bullshit. Always has been.

138 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:02:29pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

It's been long understood by science that deterrents seldom work, especially when the operator is completely invested in the action, as are terrorists. I doubt very much that what Israel did with the terrorists had any impact on their decision to not repeat the attack. I suspect that the probability of success was a much bigger factor.

139 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:02:46pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

That to me is the sign of bad people. No empathy. We see it so often now.

There are people who lack empathy who are not bad. They recognize their lack, and manage to behave as thought they have some. I'd like to know more about it, it fascinates me.

But people who don't even know what empathy is ... I don't think they can help being bad at times.

140 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:03:07pm

re: #135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Too late - you've already revealed what you mean by "innocence".

Hey we're all guilty of something...so what if Israel happened to break the wrong egg that time.

He was guilty of something, so let's not make the grave error of calling a sentient human being "innocent".

Lol oh brother.

That's not what I meant. Just because someone is guilty of something, does not mean they deserve to die. I'm not a Jacobin, thinking that all crimes should be capital ones.

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:03:08pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

That to me is the sign of bad people. No empathy. We see it so often now.

Yeah, it defines a sociopath. We've already got a rationale for explaining away the innocence of people who did nothing wrong...some of these rwnj have raised sociopathy to the level of a holy sacrament.

142 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:05:22pm

Also, I read the discussion here about the idea of a "memory whole" tool to track content changes on blogs and the like. I have some ideas on it, and if my life doesn't get too too crazy in the next couple weeks I should have something to let you wonderful folks play around with.

I may reach out to certain lizards first before releasing anything publicly, so if I cryptically ask you to contact me, that's probably what it's about. Probably.

143 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:05:31pm

re: #119 Obdicut

That's going too far. There really are radical jihadis who would like to commit terrorist acts on the US and kill Americans. Many soldiers, police officers, etc. would happily die to prevent such an attack.

Sure, but such an act wasn't the question, and wouldn't "cut the Islamists back." What you describe is simple self defense. In response to a question to how he would respond to the accidental killing of him or his father, D_F's response is to be okay with it if light of doing real damage to some nebulous Islamist foe. He's so defined by what he hates that dying or having a close family member die as an innocent victim doesn't even register as immediately wrong assuming that the brutality of the anti-Islamist pulling the trigger gains credibility. He's willing to die to advance the cause, which goes way beyond simply preventing an attack.

144 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:07:03pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

Dark, you're doing it again that disturbing thing where you thing principles are worth more than innocent people's lives....

145 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:07:25pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

Sure, but such an act wasn't the question, and wouldn't "cut the Islamists back." What you describe is simple self defense. In response to a question to how he would respond to the accidental killing of him or his father, D_F's response is to be okay with it if light of doing real damage to some nebulous Islamist foe. He's so defined by what he hates that dying or having a close family member die as an innocent victim doesn't even register as immediately wrong assuming that the brutality of the anti-Islamist pulling the trigger gains credibility. He's willing to die to advance the cause, which goes way beyond simply preventing an attack.

Happy Warrior's question was only directed towards how I would feel about me being the one dead, and that was all I answer. Please do not extend the point into places I did not go.

146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:08:06pm

re: #123 b_sharp

The problem with performing a cost/benefit ratio in this case is giving the potential benefit a much higher weighting than the definite cost. On top of that you are reducing a human life to a mere number so that the cost can be emotionally acceptable.

We do have a nasty history of that in the US....even went to war over whether people could keep doing it or not. Straight up sociopathy.

147 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:08:07pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

The problem with that kind of thinking is almost impossible to gauge to cause-effect of one action in altering the amorphous theatre of terrorism. Even Operation Wrath of God is a dubious success; Black September countered with letter bombs and assassinations of overseas Israelis, they also attacked the Saudi embassy in Khartoum. There's even Mossad agents who say the op had misplaced priorities.

The other thing to stop and consider is that bloody lessons are of dubious instructive value: really, the reaction to one is a black box that you eventually have to open. Start with the ur-example of Harpagus and Astyages and proceed forward....

148 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:09:26pm

I think if you're going to sanction executions, you better be damned sure you have the right person number one and number two be prepared to take the consequences and heat if you fuck up. I've read one too many stories about people being killed in SWAT raids because of things like mistaken addresses.

149 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:10:30pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

Couldn't tell you why. It just does not feel right. I even use it for myself.

But I won't use it again for this discussion, and I accept the legal definition as valid.

D_F, stand back and analyze the situation logically. Trading 1000 lives for 1 may be justifiable, but is trading 100 to 1, or 10 to 1, or even 2 to 1? What probability of reducing deaths is acceptable if the trade-off is 10 to 1; .8? .5? .2? How about 100 to 1 or, 2 to 1?

What is the value of a living human compared to a virtual human? There is no guarantee the operation would save even one life.

You need to be able to run these numbers before you can honestly say the operation was acceptable.

150 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:11:12pm

re: #128 wrenchwench

Her empathy is broken. Has been for a long time. Maybe she never had any.

It's one of the primary defining characteristics of psychopathy, along with grandiosity.

151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:12:05pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

That's not what I meant. Just because someone is guilty of something, does not mean they deserve to die. I'm not a Jacobin, thinking that all crimes should be capital ones.

Total goalpost shift. You were talking about why you won't use the term "innocent" for a grown man in full posession of his mental faculties, not "guilt".

152 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:12:08pm

re: #89 Dark_Falcon

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

*= I do not use the term "innocent person" to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something, though that does not mean said man deserved to die as he clearly did not.

but I'm the tactless one, because I'm saucy on the internet ;-)

153 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:12:27pm

re: #151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Total goalpost shift. You were talking about why you won't use the term "innocent" for a grown man in full posession of his mental faculties, not "guilt".

I have a headache in my internet

154 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:12:36pm

re: #152 WindUpBird

but I'm the tactless one, because I'm saucy on the internet ;-)

Damn furry.
/

155 McSpiff  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:13:30pm

re: #152 WindUpBird

but I'm the tactless one, because I'm saucy on the internet ;-)

Slow clap.gif

156 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:13:45pm

re: #114 goddamnedfrank

Congratulations on your jihadi mindset.

That's unfair. D_F was talking about his own death, not that of others.
Let's not pull the same shit Geller and FOX are known for.

157 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:15:07pm

re: #151 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Total goalpost shift. You were talking about why you won't use the term "innocent" for a grown man in full posession of his mental faculties, not "guilt".

Who's shifting? You posted something that struck me as you thought I meant "Because we're all guilty of something, we all deserve to die". I responded to what I took as your meaning. Your post is below:

re: #135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Too late - you've already revealed what you mean by "innocence".

Hey we're all guilty of something...so what if Israel happened to break the wrong egg that time.

He was guilty of something, so let's not make the grave error of calling a sentient human being "innocent".

Lol oh brother.

158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:15:16pm

re: #152 WindUpBird

but I'm the tactless one, because I'm saucy on the internet ;-)

Sauciness is not permitted.

It hurts people's delicate sensibilities. That's not allowed on the internet.

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:16:09pm

re: #140 Dark_Falcon

I myself also try to qualify statements about innocence. To provide a particular example to illustrate my hesitance: Demjanjuk. It just doesn't sit right with me to say "the court condemned Demjanjuk, an innocent man, to death". Because "Demjanjuk" and "innocent man" simply do not mix. He wasn't Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka, but he was a Wachmann in Sobibor. So it's "a man innocent of the particular crimes he has been accused of".

160 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:18:00pm

re: #47 laZardo

That's what makes them so funny. It's revealing about what kind of people seriously espouse those views.

Sorry, I can't laugh at dead kids, no matter who the idiot might be that posts it. It's not in me. It shouldn't be in you. It's just evil.

Sorry for being judgmental toward you, my fellow Lizard, but there are limits I can't see exceeded on a public board. This is one of them.

Peace.

161 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:18:09pm

re: #159 Sergey Romanov

I myself also try to qualify statements about innocence. To provide a particular example to illustrate my hesitance: Demjanjuk. It just doesn't sit right with me to say "the court condemned Demjanjuk, an innocent man, to death". Because "Demjanjuk" and "innocent man" simply do not mix. He wasn't Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka, but he was a Wachmann in Sobibor. So it's "a man innocent of the particular crimes he has been accused of".

Our Alabama ex-governor is in prison for one of the crimes he probably didn't commit.

162 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:18:32pm

re: #159 Sergey Romanov

I myself also try to qualify statements about innocence. To provide a particular example to illustrate my hesitance: Demjanjuk. It just doesn't sit right with me to say "the court condemned Demjanjuk, an innocent man, to death". Because "Demjanjuk" and "innocent man" simply do not mix. He wasn't Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka, but he was a Wachmann in Sobibor. So it's "a man innocent of the particular crimes he has been accused of".

That term I can accept entirely.

163 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:18:35pm

re: #156 b_sharp

That's unfair. D_F was talking about his own death, not that of others.
Let's not pull the same shit Geller and FOX are known for.

Actually it sounds like he is ok with the death of others, not necessarily only himself, when he said:

No, the campaign was worth it, even though someone who had not not been part of the plot* died. You can't dismiss an operation of that size just because of 1 civilian fatality. If that were done, we could never do drone strikes.

164 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:19:10pm

re: #160 austin_blue

Sorry, I can't laugh at dead kids, no matter who the idiot might be that posts it. It's not in me. It shouldn't be in you. It's just evil.

Sorry for being judgmental toward you, my fellow Lizard, but there are limits I can't see exceeded on a public board. This is one of them.

Peace.

Upding for politeness anyway.

165 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:21:12pm

re: #156 b_sharp

That's unfair. D_F was talking about his own death, not that of others.
Let's not pull the same shit Geller and FOX are known for.

Educate me. To be willing to die for a religious cause is jihadi, catholichi, baptisthi to me.

166 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:21:20pm

re: #77 ProLifeLiberal

Samson posted that on here.

And he was a "Transfer!" fanatic and an ethnic cleanser. He is also long gone. Good.

167 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:22:41pm

re: #155 McSpiff

Slow clap.gif

A company of hussars with the ladies tell jokes. Since all the jokes are old and all of them have already been heard a hundred times, for convenience they are assigned numbers, which are then just pronounced.

"Number 6". Everyone laughs.

"Number 17". Everyone laughs.

Rzhevsky: "Number 21".

Hussars are embarrassed. Odoyevsky reproaches Rzhevskij:

"Vulgarity in front of ladies!"

168 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:22:51pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Happy Warrior's question was only directed towards how I would feel about me being the one dead, and that was all I answer. Please do not extend the point into places I did not go.

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were responding to my re: #90. Would you care to respond to it now?

169 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:23:00pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

Who's shifting? You posted something that struck me as you thought I meant "Because we're all guilty of something, we all deserve to die". I responded to what I took as your meaning. Your post is below:

re: #135 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Next time, post from a position of reason, not emotion. Otherwise, you end up with heinous b.s. like this:

"I do not use the term 'innocent person' to describe a grown man in full possession of his mental faculties. The reason for this is I think we're all guilty of something [+ weak disclaimer about why he did not 'deserve' to die, in your opinion]"

At best, it's a really weird non-sequitur. At worst, it simply rationalizes the killing, regardless of your intent to do so or not.

Ah well, want omlettes, gotta break eggs. e_e

170 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:23:21pm

re: #163 prononymous

We all are, though. I support the bombing campaign of WWII even though it meant innocent people dying. Let's not pretend that in conflict innocents don't die and that that's not accepted. We can want to minimize it, but in order to make war you have to have innocents die.

However, I think a botched assassination is very different, given that the entire point of assassination is killing the right person.

171 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:23:28pm

re: #166 austin_blue

And he was a "Transfer!" fanatic and an ethnic cleanser. He is also long gone. Good.

You must be thinking of someone else.

172 Mocking Jay  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:23:34pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Educate me. To be willing to die for a religious cause is jihadi, catholichi, baptisthi to me.

Also, to be willing to let others die who haven't been given a choice...

173 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:24:24pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Educate me. To be willing to die for a religious cause is jihadi, catholichi, baptisthi to me.

Kinda Quakerhi, too.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

174 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:24:30pm

re: #161 Decatur Deb

Our Alabama ex-governor is in prison for one of the crimes he probably didn't commit.

In that same vein, the crook who beat David Duke for the governorship of Louisiana just got hitched:

Ex-Louisiana Gov. Edwin Edwards Marries Prison Pen Pal Less Than Half His Age

NEW ORLEANS -- Colorful former Gov. Edwin Edwards, who turns 84 next month, on Friday married a 32-year-old woman who befriended him during his federal prison sentence for bribery and extortion.

Edwards, a Democrat who served four terms as governor in the 1970s, `80s and `90s, did most of the talking after he and bride Trina Grimes Scott emerged from an elevator at the Monteleone Hotel in the French Quarter.

"People who don't know me don't know what a wonderful, pleasant, modest fellow I am," Edwards said when asked how a man his age managed to land a much-younger wife.

He also told reporters how Grimes, who started writing him letters while he was in prison, visited him there regularly on weekends and holidays in recent years.

"The prison was in love with her -- they used to watch her walk across the parking lot," Edwards said, laughing. "They made me the camp hero.

SNIP

He was last elected governor in 1991, when he faced former Ku Klux Klan wizard David Duke, who ran as a Republican. Business leaders feared Duke's election would be devastating for the state's convention business because of his extremist views.

Around New Orleans, bumper stickers began popping up on vehicles, stop signs and park benches that forever immortalized Louisiana's often stormy romance with Edwards. The stickers read, "Vote for the Crook: It's Important."

Edwards won in a landslide.

Yes it links to Fox, but its an AP story.

175 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:24:34pm

That's a big but.

176 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:25:01pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Educate me. To be willing to die for a religious cause is jihadi, catholichi, baptisthi to me.

One who opposes Jihadis is not necessarily doing so for religious reasons.

177 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:25:36pm

re: #158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Sauciness is not permitted.

It hurts people's delicate sensibilities. That's not allowed on the internet.

Not even a sweet white sauce?

178 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:25:51pm

On a "lighter" note is this video Hilarious, Insensitive, or hilariously insensitive?


Guess what game I've been playing all day...

179 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:25:55pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

Oh dear. You've gone Crusader/Holy Warrior on us?

Oh, dear. I am *so* disappointed in you, DF. Really. I never imagined that you would post something that naive.

180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:26:43pm

re: #178 jamesfirecat

I'm glad that I do not "get" the video.

181 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:26:46pm

re: #170 Obdicut

I could argue about this philosophy, but let's say I agree. As pointed out, it is still quite different to accept innocent casualties when taking out specific threat versus accepting casualties to prevent an amorphous possible future.

182 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:27:01pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Educate me. To be willing to die for a religious cause is jihadi, catholichi, baptisthi to me.

It's a martyr's mentality at the very least, an expressed willingness to be sacrificed in a way that will "cut back" the enemy.

183 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:27:34pm

re: #168 goddamnedfrank

Sorry, my mistake, I thought you were responding to my re: #90. Would you care to respond to it now?

If it was my father, I'd like to think that I could accept an apology in time. At the time, I'd be too grief stricken to be coherent. I'd probably need to be institutionalized for a few days till I settled down.

184 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:27:59pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

DF, the greatest sacrifice you can ever make is not dieing for a cause, but living for one.

185 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:28:18pm

re: #177 b_sharp

Not even a sweet white sauce?

Well, we can make an exception for a nice carbonara, I suppose.

186 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:28:59pm

re: #179 austin_blue

Oh dear. You've gone Crusader/Holy Warrior on us?

Oh, dear. I am *so* disappointed in you, DF. Really. I never imagined that you would post something that naive.

Total flouncer mentality.

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:29:48pm

re: #186 laZardo

Total flouncer mentality.

Oh come on.

188 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:30:21pm

re: #178 jamesfirecat

On a "lighter" note is this video Hilarious, Insensitive, or hilariously insensitive?

Guess what game I've been playing all day...

Dude, I'm trying to download the new Angry Birds Peace Treaty game to only realize it's just a video! LOL

189 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:30:38pm

And since we're talking about screw-ups:

Retired Military Translator's Home Reportedly Raided in DEA Mix-Up

A retired military translator who served in Iraq says he was treated like a criminal when agents from the DEA barreled into his Detroit home just after 2 a.m. Tuesday morning, MyFoxDetroit.com reported.

"As soon as I opened the door, somebody grabbed me and took me outside and put me on the grass," Ramsey Tossa said. “The first thing I thought was they were terrorists who want to kill me because I served in Iraq.”

Tossa and his family were asleep at the time. He woke up when he heard loud banging on the door. He was taken outside, had lasers trained on him and saw agents dragging his wife and daughters who were “half naked.”

190 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:31:26pm

re: #163 prononymous

Actually it sounds like he is ok with the death of others, not necessarily only himself, when he said:

That wasn't part of the question and answer though. D_F's attitude is one of a military hawk, something I have trouble understanding, although I suspect it's based on fear of others, something once useful in an evolutionary sense but maladaptive now.

191 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:31:45pm

g'night

192 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:31:52pm

re: #189 Dark_Falcon

Can't people read addresses or something?

193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:32:10pm

re: #189 Dark_Falcon

And since we're talking about screw-ups:

Retired Military Translator's Home Reportedly Raided in DEA Mix-Up

Eh, eggs/omlettes.

194 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:32:53pm

re: #165 Stanley Sea

Educate me. To be willing to die for a religious cause is jihadi, catholichi, baptisthi to me.

To answer you I'll ask a question - would you give your life for a parent or a child or a lover?

195 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:33:28pm

Obama to speak at 8:40 Eastern...

196 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:34:02pm

Guess it had to happen sometime soon. It's just so 'Pam'. Who else would attempt to blame murdered kids besides Ms Geller?

197 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:34:34pm

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

The naivete is becoming almost indistinguishable from the direct rhetoric.

198 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:34:58pm

So let me see if I got this right. If my sister gets shot and killed or blown up during a raid or attempted assassination of a terrorist leader and/or cell I should accept that fate and see her as dying for a cause? Seems like rather strained logic if that's what I'm seeing.

199 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:35:44pm

re: #190 b_sharp

Hey, just noticed the new avatar. Uh, cute!

200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:35:46pm

re: #190 b_sharp

That wasn't part of the question and answer though. D_F's attitude is one of a military hawk, something I have trouble understanding, although I suspect it's based on fear of others, something once useful in an evolutionary sense but maladaptive now.

I would say, more like based on irrational, illogical, clung-to beliefs about others.

201 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:35:51pm

re: #86 HappyWarrior

No offense DF but tell that to the guy's family that it was worth the cost. I am not anti Israel in the slightest but it's very easy for you to say that from a safe distance. What if you matched the description of a wanted terrorist and were killed?

Apparently, DF would gladly "be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back."

Sigh.

202 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:36:12pm

re: #194 b_sharp

To answer you I'll ask a question - would you give your life for a parent or a child or a lover?

Nope.

203 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:37:02pm

re: #198 Gus 802

If my brother died in a no-knock warrant, I would not accept it because I don't think no-knock warrants are good policy.

If he died as the result of a car crash caused by a high-speed chase, as an innocent bystander, I'd not accept it because I don't think high-speed chases are good policy.

If my brother died because he was a hostage and the government refused to negotiate with the terrorists holding him, or died during a raid to recover him, I'd accept that, because I support that policy.

204 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:38:15pm

That's as if a pilot dropped a 2000 pound JDAM on the wrong target killing 100 innocent civilians and noticing his mistake during the flight and going over the radio and saying "well, they died for a good cause anyway." It's like a bad John Wayne movie. Not even a John Wayne movie. More like something from Mad TV.

205 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:38:41pm

re: #188 Stanley Sea

Dude, I'm trying to download the new Angry Birds Peace Treaty game to only realize it's just a video! LOL

Did you download the eagle so you can collect feathers?

206 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:38:58pm

re: #194 b_sharp

To answer you I'll ask a question - would you give your life for a parent or a child or a lover?

For a child, sure. For my wife, only if she wouldn't know I did it, otherwise it'd destroy her. I mean, if someone was attacking her I'd try to save her, but if it was just me dying, her living, in some magical trade, she'd be devastated if I did so. With the very good logic that-- why couldn't she sacrifice herself for me? Where do I get the supremacy from?

207 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:39:01pm

"Do you feel lucky punk?"

BLAM!

"Oops!"

BLAM!

"Oops again."

"Well. They died for a good cause."

//

208 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:39:06pm

re: #196 eclectic infidel

Guess it had to happen sometime soon. It's just so 'Pam'. Who else would attempt to blame murdered kids besides Ms Geller?

People trying to rationalize the slaughter of settler famiiles in Israel?

209 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:39:58pm

re: #202 Stanley Sea

Nope.

Well, fuck, let me reiterate. If it was a life and death situ, like a raging river, I bet I wouldn't hesitate.

But if there was a conscious choice (which really is improbable) Probably not. Self preservation and all that. But define a conscious choice scenario for me, not a gut reaction life or death.

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:40:53pm

re: #205 b_sharp

Did you download the eagle so you can collect feathers?

Accidentally, but damn glad I did. (Paid 1.99 for it! I was like, wha?) but it got me through the hard levels I can now go back and conquer)

211 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:41:11pm

Obama says there is a deal!

212 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:41:57pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Obama says there is a deal!

Sure, but what does Allan West say/

213 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:42:04pm

re: #208 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

People trying to rationalize the slaughter of settler famiiles in Israel?

My comment was more in reference to the wing nut section of the blogosphere but yes, you are most correct.

214 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:42:05pm

re: #203 Obdicut

If my brother died in a no-knock warrant, I would not accept it because I don't think no-knock warrants are good policy.

But it shows that the DEA won't be messed with! //

^rationale for Daryl Gates LAPD battering ram

215 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:42:12pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Obama says there is a deal!

Last minute save. Odds were always in favor...

216 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:42:40pm

Glad something happened.

217 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:42:41pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Obama says there is a deal!

And the Tea Party's no doubt already gearing up to kill it.

218 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:42:56pm

re: #212 Decatur Deb

Sure, but what does Allan West say/

He's a slimy socialist!

219 wrenchwench  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:43:27pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

Glad something happened.

Good rotating title potential.

220 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:43:28pm

Hey all!

I accomplished something and then took a nap.

How has your day gone?

221 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:43:32pm

re: #195 Gus 802

Obama to speak at 8:40 Eastern...

oh golly!....better do my nails

222 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:43:33pm

re: #193 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Okay, I've seen so many colossal fuckups from the DEA that I think they need to be liquidated and terminated as an agency.

That'll save money.

223 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:44:04pm

re: #200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would say, more like based on irrational, illogical, clung-to beliefs about others.

That will definitely be part of it. I do tend to look at group actions in terms of the intersection of evolutionary ESS and social processes which I admit isn't terribly practical.

224 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:44:51pm

FIRE UP THE IMPEACHMENT PROCESS

225 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:44:58pm

The White House
POTUS: 2nd part "establishes a bipartisan committee of Congress to report back by Nov with a proposal to further reduce the deficit"
5 minutes ago

The White House
POTUS: 1st part of this agreement would cut about $1 trillion in spending over the next 10 years
5 minutes ago

The White House
POTUS: I want to announce that the leaders of both parties ... have reached an agreement that will reduce the deficit and avoid default
6 minutes ago

[Link: twitter.com...]

226 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:01pm

re: #217 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And the Tea Party's no doubt already gearing up to kill it.

I'm watching Fox, so I'll see what the initial reaction is from that quarter.

227 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:22pm

re: #203 Obdicut

If my brother died in a no-knock warrant, I would not accept it because I don't think no-knock warrants are good policy.

If he died as the result of a car crash caused by a high-speed chase, as an innocent bystander, I'd not accept it because I don't think high-speed chases are good policy.

If my brother died because he was a hostage and the government refused to negotiate with the terrorists holding him, or died during a raid to recover him, I'd accept that, because I support that policy.

Have to disagree. Side with Camus on this, myself:

I believe in justice, but I'll defend my mother before justice.

228 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:31pm

re: #204 Gus 802

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

229 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:50pm

huh, somebody hacked into Breivik's twitter account

230 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:52pm

re: #227 000G

Have to disagree. Side with Camus on this, myself:

Disagree with what portion?

231 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:54pm

re: #202 Stanley Sea

Nope.

I would. If I could save my grandkid's life by giving up my own I wouldn't hesitate.

My point was simply - there are many reasons for giving your life other than religion.

232 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:45:55pm

re: #213 eclectic infidel

My comment was more in reference to the wing nut section of the blogosphere but yes, you are most correct.

I know. Was taking it one further because they are just parroting what the Israel-hate blogs have been saying about ABB. First place I saw that "Boycott Israel" picture on Atlas Shrieks was on whatreallyhappened.com, the day of the bombing/shooting.

Although I'm kind of surprised...by my count it took anti-Israels 3 whole days to start screaming Mossad did it.

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:46:12pm

re: #229 000G

Linky?

234 allegro  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:46:13pm
Sen. Bernie Sanders issued the following statement today after he voted against a Senate deficit- reduction proposal:

"The Republicans have been absolutely determined to make certain that the rich and large corporations not contribute one penny for deficit reduction, and that all of the sacrifice comes from the middle class and working families in terms of cuts in Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, LIHEAP, community health centers, education, Head Start, nutrition, MILC, affordable housing and many other vitally important programs.

"I cannot support legislation like the Reid proposal which balances the budget on the backs of struggling Americans while not requiring one penny of sacrifice from the wealthiest people in our country. That is not only grotesquely immoral, it is bad economic policy."

Just not seeing this bill as something positive.

235 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:46:17pm

re: #225 Gus 802

The White House
POTUS: 2nd part "establishes a bipartisan committee of Congress to report back by Nov with a proposal to further reduce the deficit"
5 minutes ago

The White House
POTUS: 1st part of this agreement would cut about $1 trillion in spending over the next 10 years
5 minutes ago

The White House
POTUS: I want to announce that the leaders of both parties ... have reached an agreement that will reduce the deficit and avoid default
6 minutes ago

[Link: twitter.com...]

So, just a different flavor of the Boehner plan. Thank you, President Obama, for courageously dropping trou and grabbing your ankles like a real leader. *rolls eyes*

236 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:47:13pm

re: #221 albusteve

oh golly!...better do my nails

rotfl

237 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:47:42pm

WHAT?....no default?
all that angst and hysteria for nothing?

238 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:47:48pm

re: #203 Obdicut

If my brother died in a no-knock warrant, I would not accept it because I don't think no-knock warrants are good policy.

If he died as the result of a car crash caused by a high-speed chase, as an innocent bystander, I'd not accept it because I don't think high-speed chases are good policy.

If my brother died because he was a hostage and the government refused to negotiate with the terrorists holding him, or died during a raid to recover him, I'd accept that, because I support that policy.

I agree.
Further, the situation can not be viewed as a simple yes or no, there is a lot of complexity built in.

239 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:47:53pm

re: #229 000G

huh, somebody hacked into Breivik's twitter account

Was it News Corp?

/half kidding

240 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:48:21pm

re: #235 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm very conflicted on this, partially because if we do default, I'm fairly sure my clients wouldn't sign next years contracts. Do you think Obama should have held firm on raising taxes, even if it wound up in default?

The committee is almost certainly going to recommend tax increases, and most of the cuts aren't going to take effect until later, so this can all be rolled back, too.

241 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:48:29pm

re: #233 Sergey Romanov

Linky?

[Link: twitter.com...]

Image: 1312156091684.jpg

242 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:48:40pm

re: #237 albusteve

WHAT?...no default?
all that angst and hysteria for nothing?

Don't put on your party leg just yet, Steve.

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:48:44pm

So, I see nothing real was accomplished in D.C. while I wasn't paying attention.--???

244 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:49:09pm

re: #225 Gus 802

Did he use the word "bi-partisan" or "cooperation"...
/

245 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:49:16pm

re: #228 Sergey Romanov

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

FUBAR

Not in any way shape or form a good cause or a "good way to die."

Dead and gone for nothing. Zero. Zilch. Zip.

246 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:49:26pm

re: #230 Obdicut

Disagree with what portion?

The part where you seem to agree with your brother's death in order to be politically consistent.

247 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:49:42pm

re: #242 Obdicut

Don't put on your party leg just yet, Steve.

heh...I'm not into gloating....but I like the party leg angle, have to think about that

248 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:50:30pm

re: #235 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So, just a different flavor of the Boehner plan. Thank you, President Obama, for courageously dropping trou and grabbing your ankles like a real leader. *rolls eyes*

re: #237 albusteve

WHAT?...no default?
all that angst and hysteria for nothing?

Wait for the details--and the signing.

249 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:50:34pm

re: #210 Stanley Sea

Accidentally, but damn glad I did. (Paid 1.99 for it! I was like, wha?) but it got me through the hard levels I can now go back and conquer)

I can just about destroy all of the blocks and stuff without the eagle, but I always leave a few. It gets frustrating and addicting at the same time.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:51:09pm

If Steve is getting his nails done, then I want mine done too!

251 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:51:14pm

re: #246 000G

The part where you seem to agree with your brother's death in order to be politically consistent.

Huh. I'm not sure why you call it 'politically' consistent. I agree that it's good policy not to negotiate with terrorists. I also don't think negotiating would be any certainty of his survival, either.

Saying that I 'agree' with my brothers death is rather more pointed than I think you meant. You're not a native English speaker, right?

252 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:51:35pm

re: #240 Obdicut

I'm very conflicted on this, partially because if we do default, I'm fairly sure my clients wouldn't sign next years contracts. Do you think Obama should have held firm on raising taxes, even if it wound up in default?

The committee is almost certainly going to recommend tax increases, and most of the cuts aren't going to take effect until later, so this can all be rolled back, too.

He said he'd veto the Boehner plan if it landed on his desk. Now he's accepting a rewrite of it. Does the man's word have any value anymore?

253 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:52:49pm

re: #249 b_sharp

I can just about destroy all of the blocks and stuff without the eagle, but I always leave a few. It gets frustrating and addicting at the same time.

I was only playing the free version on google chrome, but after a hard days work I'm now 189 for 189 stars on Poached Eggs!

254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:53:00pm

re: #237 albusteve

WHAT?...no default?
all that angst and hysteria for nothing?

Didn't see that coming.
/

255 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:53:09pm

re: #252 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He said he'd veto the Boehner plan if it landed on his desk. Now he's accepting a rewrite of it. Does the man's word have any value anymore?

He cut the best deal he could. So did Boener.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:53:14pm

re: #252 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He said he'd veto the Boehner plan if it landed on his desk. Now he's accepting a rewrite of it. Does the man's word have any value anymore?

Well, if it's re-written, it wouldn't be Boehner 1.O. It would be Boehner 1.1 and therefore a different plan.

257 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:53:15pm

re: #252 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He said he'd veto the Boehner plan if it landed on his desk. Now he's accepting a rewrite of it. Does the man's word have any value anymore?

Are you saying it's identical to the Boehner plan? I'm not getting that impression. Especially since Boehner is withholding approval of it.

Do we know the details of the plan yet?

258 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:53:20pm

re: #201 austin_blue

Apparently, DF would gladly "be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back."

Yeah but have you ever heard of omlettes without eggs? //

259 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:54:23pm

if the American people were expecting a nice shiny, say, Honda Accord forget it...congress is going to dump a bashed up old Yugo on us and call themselves valiant hero's for pulling it out of the junkyard for us...just my guess

260 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:54:36pm

re: #251 Obdicut

Huh. I'm not sure why you call it 'politically' consistent. I agree that it's good policy not to negotiate with terrorists.

Policy is dictated by politics.

I also don't think negotiating would be any certainty of his survival, either.

So?

Saying that I 'agree' with my brothers death is rather more pointed than I think you meant.

Misread accepted as agreeing. My bad. Same difference, though.

261 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:55:02pm

WestWingReport West Wing Report
McConnell reassures - as the President will in a moment - that the U.S. government will not default on its debt; S&P futures up sharply
22 minutes ago

262 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:55:57pm

re: #203 Obdicut

If my brother died in a no-knock warrant, I would not accept it because I don't think no-knock warrants are good policy.

If he died as the result of a car crash caused by a high-speed chase, as an innocent bystander, I'd not accept it because I don't think high-speed chases are good policy.

If my brother died because he was a hostage and the government refused to negotiate with the terrorists holding him, or died during a raid to recover him, I'd accept that, because I support that policy.

What a 'bout a no-knock, no-warrant, but legal.

263 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:56:24pm

WestWingReport West Wing Report

Reid: "This agreement won't make every Democrat happy & it won't make every Republican happy.

McConnell: "Important moment for our country"

25 minutes ago

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:57:10pm

Another crap sammich, eh.

265 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:57:15pm

re: #263 Gus 802

WestWingReport West Wing Report

Reid: "This agreement won't make every Democrat happy & it won't make every Republican happy.

McConnell: "Important moment for our country"

25 minutes ago

lotta ass slapping coming up

266 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:57:20pm

re: #260 000G

Policy is dictated by politics.

Er, okay. Do you think I should for some reason not accept my brother's death even though I agree with the policy? Wouldn't that be rather wildly hypocritical?

So?

So it's not a clear choice between dead brother and alive brother.

267 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:57:22pm

I'll believe it when the Pres signs it.

268 allegro  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:57:37pm

re: #258 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah but have you ever heard of omlettes without eggs? //

Please stop talking about eggs. This morning I got up from my desk to get another cup of coffee and fix some scrambled eggs. I pulled everything out, filled my coffee mug and set it at the edge of the counter. Not quite on the counter enough though cuz it fell, hit the floor and coffee went everywhere. I swore, bent down to clean it up, smacked the egg carton with my elbow and the full carton hit the floor as well so I had a dozen broken eggs to clean up as well as a full mug of coffee.

It did not start my day out well. Never did get my damn breakfast.

269 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:58:19pm

re: #259 albusteve

if the American people were expecting a nice shiny, say, Honda Accord forget it...congress is going to dump a bashed up old Yugo on us and call themselves valiant hero's for pulling it out of the junkyard for us...just my guess

More like a old Nova.

270 blueraven  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:59:00pm

re: #174 Dark_Falcon

That is not in the same vein. People get married in prison all the time and it certainly is not equivalent to an innocent person serving time because of political enemies.

271 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:59:04pm

re: #266 Obdicut

Er, okay. Do you think I should for some reason not accept my brother's death even though I agree with the policy? Wouldn't that be rather wildly hypocritical?

Better a hypocrite with a brother alive than being consistent with a dead brother. In my humble opinion. Yours may differ.

So it's not a clear choice between dead brother and alive brother.

Survival is never certain.

272 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:59:08pm

I dunno if anyone else has noticed but FQ Kafir completely owns the Bottom 10 list. Has anyone ever done that before?

He did have one point that got me thinking.

Because businesses are taxed at the same rate.

This is wrong, in many ways.

But the way that it got me thinking is that the Right Wing (especially the Paulians and Libertarians) trot out a flat tax. Do they every trot out a flat tax for businesses?

273 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:59:16pm

re: #257 Obdicut

Are you saying it's identical to the Boehner plan? I'm not getting that impression. Especially since Boehner is withholding approval of it.

Do we know the details of the plan yet?

First impressions are just leaving me feeling a bit sour. Everything I'm hearing so far, from taking up a bipartisan commissions recommendations to the potential of tacking the BBA on (but not making its passage vital) reads like a rehash of Boehner's proposal. The devil will, as always, be in the details.

274 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:59:23pm

West Wing Report

Important to note if U.S. gets downgraded from AAA to AA - still a possibility - AA is still investment grade; still quite credit worthy
5 minutes ago

Big question tonight: getting this plan passed by the House & Senate. There is resistance in House from both Dems. & GOP
12 minutes ago

President cautions "We're not done yet," also thanks the American people for speaking up. Left briefing room, took no questions
16 minutes ago

275 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 5:59:47pm

re: #272 Olsonist

> Has anyone ever done that before?

Sure.

276 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:00:10pm

re: #272 Olsonist

I dunno if anyone else has noticed but FQ Kafir completely owns the Bottom 10 list. Has anyone ever done that before?

He did have one point that got me thinking.

This is wrong, in many ways.

But the way that it got me thinking is that the Right Wing (especially the Paulians and Libertarians) trot out a flat tax. Do they every trot out a flat tax for businesses?

I have I have..... waves arm proudly!

277 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:00:37pm

re: #271 000G

Better a hypocrite with a brother alive than being consistent with a dead brother. In my humble opinion. Yours may differ.

What on earth are you talking about? How do I have the choice between a live brother and a dead brother in that scenario?


Survival is never certain.

Yeah. Especially when someone is a hostage.

I honestly think that a raid on the terrorists would be the best chance of getting my brother out alive, and somehow you're making that out to me saying that that's me preferring my brother dead so as to be politically consistent. I'm not sure if you realize what an insanely monstrous thing you're accusing me of.

278 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:00:44pm

Did anyone seriously think anything good was going to come out of D.C. this weekend?

279 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:01:04pm

From CNN:

"The proposed $3 trillion deal, which still requires congressional approval, brought some immediate relief to global markets closely watching the situation play out and a nation filled with anger and frustration over partisan political wrangling that threatened further economic harm to an already struggling recovery.

However, there was no guarantee the plan will win enough support to pass both chambers of Congress.

Democratic and Republican leaders in both the House and Senate were briefing their caucuses about the agreement on Sunday night or Monday."

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

280 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:01:40pm

re: #270 blueraven

That is not in the same vein. People get married in prison all the time and it certainly is not equivalent to an innocent person serving time because of political enemies.

I just meant it in a light-hearted human interest story way. There was a partial match in that both were ex-governors who'd done time. And I had wanted to post that story for days. That's all it was.

281 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:01:50pm

re: #273 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

First impressions are just leaving me feeling a bit sour. Everything I'm hearing so far, from taking up a bipartisan commissions recommendations to the potential of tacking the BBA on (but not making its passage vital) reads like a rehash of Boehner's proposal. The devil will, as always, be in the details.

Not making the passage of the BBA vital is a huge difference.

282 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:01:54pm

re: #247 albusteve

heh...I'm not into gloating...but I like the party leg angle, have to think about that

One with rhinestones, one without.

283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:02:27pm

re: #268 allegro

Was in the grocery store this morning... found a few broken eggs in cartons. For some reason? Sorted a dozen broken eggs out of several cartons into one. Took the carton with the broken eggs to the manager of the dairy department.

Why did I do that? I have no idea. But, once I started, I couldn't stop until I had found all of them.

My OCD good deed of the day, I guess.

284 allegro  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:03:26pm

re: #283 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Was in the grocery store this morning... found a few broken eggs in cartons. For some reason? Sorted a dozen broken eggs out of several cartons into one. Took the carton with the broken eggs to the manager of the dairy department.

Why did I do that? I have no idea. But, once I started, I couldn't stop until I had found all of them.

My OCD good deed of the day, I guess.

That makes you a "good egg." ;)

285 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:04:05pm

Pam has just removed the "mudblood" caption!

But here's a copy: [Link: www.webcitation.org...]

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:05:37pm

re: #3 moderatelyradicalliberal

Does she know that as a Jew, she looks "Middle Eastern" too? Or is she under the impression that her white nationalist friends have accepted her as an honorary white person?

Yes.

287 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:06:04pm

re: #277 Obdicut

What on earth are you talking about? How do I have the choice between a live brother and a dead brother in that scenario?

The choice is in negotiation having the potential to save your brother (presuming you have any influence on the politics or policies involved – if you don't, then I don't see why your acceptance would matter at all). All your choices in the scenario have potential outcomes that you cannot determine.

Yeah. Especially when someone is a hostage.

I honestly think that a raid on the terrorists would be the best chance of getting my brother out alive, and somehow you're making that out to me saying that that's me preferring my brother dead so as to be politically consistent. I'm not sure if you realize what an insanely monstrous thing you're accusing me of.

I am not accusing you of anything. I am trying to understand why you would "accept" your brother's death as a result of policies you support. It seems to me that you said your acceptance of the death would be a result of your stance on the policies involved, in order to not appear to be a hypocrite.

288 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:06:06pm

re: #257 Obdicut

Are you saying it's identical to the Boehner plan? I'm not getting that impression. Especially since Boehner is withholding approval of it.

Do we know the details of the plan yet?

President Obama:

"Is this the deal I would have preferred? No," he said. "But this compromise does make a serious down payment on the deficit reduction we need."

289 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:06:36pm

re: #252 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

He said he'd veto the Boehner plan if it landed on his desk. Now he's accepting a rewrite of it. Does the man's word have any value anymore?

You didn't actually think Obama was going to veto anything did you? He was never going to be the one that sent us into default, he'd sign anything that the Senate Democrats are willing to pass to him.

290 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:06:49pm

From The Wall Street Journal Washington Wire Blog: 8:58 pm Obama: A Deal, But Not Done by Joseph B. White President Barack Obama, speaking from the White House as major Asian markets were opening, said congressional leaders agreed Sunday to a deal to cut the deficit and raise the federal debt ceiling, but he cautioned the struggle over U.S. fiscal policy isn’t over, either short term or long term.

In the short term, Mr. Obama and congressional leaders need to deliver votes to pass the proposal worked out in closed-door talks among White House officials and congressional leaders. A big uncertainty: Will enough House Republicans agree to vote for the package?

Long term, Mr. Obama made it clear in his remarks he’s not done fighting for his vision of how the U.S. should narrow its budget gap, which is a combination of raising taxes and cutting spending, including making what he described as modest changes to the big old-age entitlement programs. Republicans rejected tax increases throughout weeks of wrangling leading up to today. Democrats are equally adamant that Medicare and Social Security not be curtailed.

A special committee appointed by congressional leaders will weigh how best to trim $1.2 trillion in spending in a second phase of the process to cut a total of about $2.4 trillion overall.

“Everything will be on the table,” Mr. Obama said.

“I will continue to make the case..that a balanced approach is necessary to do the job,” Mr. Obama said.

“We are not done yet,” Mr. Obama said. “I urge members to do the right thing and support this deal with your vote.”

291 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:07:53pm

re: #30 oslogin

The picture of those kids in a boat is a picture of the Socialist Youth. That's the youth-wing of the Socialist Left, and not the same as the Labour Youth.

Excellent research, there.

By Pam, it doesn't matter. They were some kind of left-wing Norwegians, right?

///

292 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:07:54pm

re: #277 Obdicut

Yeah. Especially when someone is a hostage.

Hostage situations suck.... the Escondido Police shot my 22 year old sister in law in the back and killed her, as she was running away from the perp. Changed the whole family dynamic it did.

293 JJ42  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:08:03pm

There's a quote that goes something like this:

"If you’re not a liberal at 20 you have no heart, if not a conservative at 40 you have no brain"


The horrible truth is that most of the members of Labour Youth (AUF) are just kids, so being anti-Israel is in a way quite natural. (I was anti-Israel myself when I was about that age.)

The main thing here is that if there was any "indoctrination" going on on that camp, it was the other way around. Senior politicians (like Jonas Gahr Støre and Gro Harlem Brundtland) "indoctrinating" them in how to be politicians in the real world, (which for the most part means compromising, moderating their views, acting diplomatically etc.)
Political youth organizations are known to be more radical than their mother parties, and AUF is no exception. For instance, they (AUF) wants a boycott against Israel, while their mother party (which is also the ruling party) does not support this. At least one AUF-member also took part in the Gaza flotilla this summer. (She survived Utøya and was interviewed on CNN afterwards)

Bottom line: There was no "anti-Israel indoctrination" going on at the camp. Rather the other way around.

294 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:08:34pm

For those counting, not the Boehner or the Reid plan, but the McConnell plan. Yes, there are differences even though large chunks of each are similar.

McConnell's was the "the President takes the blame nine times" plan.

295 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:08:51pm

re: #281 Obdicut

Not making the passage of the BBA vital is a huge difference.

Thing about their BBA nonsense is, it shows just how non-serious the GOTP really is.

Lol like that's going to get 75% approval from the 50 states overnight..rotfl

296 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:09:14pm

re: #278 ggt

Did anyone seriously think anything good was going to come out of D.C. this weekend?

Not destroying the world economy was all I was hoping for.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:09:25pm

re: #293 JJ42

are just kids, so being anti-Israel is in a way quite natural.


Why?

298 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:09:25pm

re: #287 000G

The choice is in negotiation having the potential to save your brother (presuming you have any influence on the politics or policies involved – if you don't, then I don't see why your acceptance would matter at all). All your choices in the scenario have potential outcomes that you cannot determine.

Er, right. Any possible action-- negotatiation or fighting-- has the potential for a dead or live brother. I think a raid is the better policy.


I am not accusing you of anything. .

well, try not actually doing so.

I am trying to understand why you would "accept" your brother's death as a result of policies you support.

Then ask questions, rather than making assertions.

It seems to me that you said your acceptance of the death would be a result of your stance on the policies involved, in order to not appear to be a hypocrite

Um, no. It would be because I support the policy, and I'm not a hypocrite. It's not about appearance. That, right there, is where you're being amazingly offensive. Do you understand?

As in, if I happened to be in charge of the scene, I'd order a raid, not a negotiation, because I think it's the best policy, both in the short and long term.

what would you prefer, rather than me 'accepting' it? That I change my view on the policy?

299 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:09:32pm

re: #289 goddamnedfrank

You didn't actually think Obama was going to veto anything did you? He was never going to be the one that sent us into default, he'd sign anything that the Senate Democrats are willing to pass to him.

my take as well...nobody wanted to be hung with the default, especially a bunch of rookie punks in the house....talk is cheap, but what a sweet job being a US rep, eh?...smart money says they'd fold

300 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:09:43pm

re: #285 Sergey Romanov

Pam has just removed the "mudblood" caption!

But here's a copy: [Link: www.webcitation.org...]

Heh, poor dummy still hasn't learned.

301 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:09:57pm

re: #292 Mr Pancakes

Holy crap that sucks, dude. I"m so sorry.

302 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:10:45pm

re: #292 Mr Pancakes

I'm very sorry to hear that.

303 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:11:15pm

Well, the good thing about this is that ms. Geller will have no audience in Norway anymore. If anyone is stupid enough to link to anything she has written, someone will soon point out that post.

Hey, we might all be Socialists. But at least we're well-read Socialists.

304 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:11:54pm

re: #301 Obdicut

Holy crap that sucks, dude. I"m so sorry.

Thanks...... happened many years ago..... here's an old article I found.

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:12:17pm

The "Zombie Pam" picture creeps me right the fuck out.

306 tnguitarist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:12:21pm

Anyone been following Jeff Sharlet on twitter? The stuff Debbie Schlussel is saying about the Norway victims is disgusting.

307 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:12:38pm

re: #303 oslogin

Well, the good thing about this is that ms. Geller will have no audience in Norway anymore. If anyone is stupid enough to link to anything she has written, someone will soon point out that post.

Hey, we might all be Socialists. But at least we're well-read Socialists.

How many mentions of the concrete names from the "CJ"-wingnutosphere have there been in Norway media? Is Pam a household name, by any chance?

308 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:12:52pm

re: #304 Mr Pancakes

Wow. Coincidence: I knew Melvin Belli.

309 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:12:52pm

re: #305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The "Zombie Pam" picture creeps me right the fuck out.

BRAAAIIINNNSSSS

310 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:13:30pm

re: #293 JJ42

The horrible truth is that most of the members of Labour Youth (AUF) are just kids, so being anti-Israel is in a way quite natural. (I was anti-Israel myself when I was about that age.)

Not sure about that. I wasn't anti-Israel (though I grew up on the *actual* proto-"Christian Zionist" wing. My pro-Israel views today are 180˚opposite of that.)

So it all depends on when and where one grows up.

311 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:13:50pm

re: #306 tnguitarist

Anyone been following Jeff Sharlet on twitter? The stuff Debbie Schlussel is saying about the Norway victims is disgusting.

I started following him a few days ago. Good tweets.

312 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:14:40pm

re: #306 tnguitarist

Anyone been following Jeff Sharlet on twitter? The stuff Debbie Schlussel is saying about the Norway victims is disgusting.

Haven't been following him, but reading her.

That is one unhappy person.

313 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:15:06pm

re: #308 Obdicut

Wow. Coincidence: I knew Melvin Belli.

I met him and talked to him...... told him a joke and he laughed I remember.

314 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:15:06pm

re: #299 albusteve

my take as well...nobody wanted to be hung with the default, especially a bunch of rookie punks in the house...talk is cheap, but what a sweet job being a US rep, eh?...smart money says they'd fold

Yeah I don't know about that. The Tea Party Reps have a lot less to be beholden to and they're the true believers, either in denial about a default, minimizing the impact or actively looking forward to it. The business Republicans are scared appropriately shitless, but the Teahadis are just plum crazy.

315 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:15:10pm

re: #306 tnguitarist

Anyone been following Jeff Sharlet on twitter? The stuff Debbie Schlussel is saying about the Norway victims is disgusting.

Yeah. It's repulsive like Debbie Schlussel.

316 Øyvind Strømmen  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:15:11pm

re: #307 Sergey Romanov

How many mentions of the concrete names from the "CJ"-wingnutosphere have there been in Norway media? Is Pam a household name, by any chance?

She's been mentioned. Not as much as Fjordman and Gates of Vienna. But I see quite a few Norwegians have found their way to her blog, as well. And they're not too happy.

I think receive more attention after this one, though.

317 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:15:33pm

re: #298 Obdicut

Er, right. Any possible action-- negotatiation or fighting-- has the potential for a dead or live brother. I think a raid is the better policy.

I know you do. Doesn't mean that that would always be true in every case.

Um, no. It would be because I support the policy, and I'm not a hypocrite. It's not about appearance. That, right there, is where you're being amazingly offensive. Do you understand?

No, because the difference between appearing as a hypocrite and being a hypocrite doesn't seem significant to me when compared to live or dead brother.

what would you prefer, rather than me 'accepting' it? That I change my view on the policy?

In order to ask a question, which you seem to prefer: Why do you need to accept your brother's death when in other instances you would not? More specifically, why do you need to accept it because of your views on policy? Why is your desire of maintaining your status of not being a hypocrite in policy questions determining whether you accept your borther's death or not?

318 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:16:32pm

re: #313 Mr Pancakes

I met him and talked to him... told him a joke and he laughed I remember.

I hope he treated your family well. I know he worked his ass off on the case, because he was obsessive as hell. Could be a bit, ah, abrasive and callous, though.

319 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:17:05pm

re: #314 goddamnedfrank

Yeah I don't know about that. The Tea Party Reps have a lot less to be beholden to and they're the true believers, either in denial about a default, minimizing the impact or actively looking forward to it. The business Republicans are scared appropriately shitless, but the Teahadis are just plum crazy.

but non of that would mean a thing if they lose their job....re-election trumps everything

320 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:17:51pm

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

Why?



are just kids, so being anti-Israel is in a way quite natural.

I'm not so sure I agree with that.

Depends on the kid.

I certainly wasn't.

321 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:17:54pm

re: #131 McSpiff

I find it weird that now even the Palestinian terrorists of the 70s are getting lumped in with the modern day Islamist terrorists. Groups like the PFLP aren't exactly religious warriors.

It's impossible for the anti-Jihad crowd to accept the basically secular approach of early Palestinian terror groups, because it interferes with their 'Islam, and everyone adherent to it, has been exactly the same since the seventh century' routine. Hence, the idea that religious radicalism develops, changes, or moves around it unacceptable.

322 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:17:55pm

re: #318 Obdicut

I hope he treated your family well. I know he worked his ass off on the case, because he was obsessive as hell. Could be a bit, ah, abrasive and callous, though.

Makes for a good lawyer, though.

323 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:18:03pm

re: #316 oslogin

She's been mentioned. Not as much as Fjordman and Gates of Vienna. But I see quite a few Norwegians have found their way to her blog, as well. And they're not too happy.

I think receive more attention after this one, though.

Be sure to use this unexpurgated copy if you write about it ;) [Link: www.webcitation.org...]

324 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:18:38pm

re: #292 Mr Pancakes

Hostage situations suck... the Escondido Police shot my 22 year old sister in law in the back and killed her, as she was running away from the perp. Changed the whole family dynamic it did.

Holy shit Mr. IHOP. I think I remember this story.

325 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:18:43pm

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

Makes for a good lawyer, though.

no such thing

326 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:19:15pm

re: #320 ggt

I'm not so sure I agree with that.

Depends on the kid.

I certainly wasn't.

Please, don't quote in such a way that it appears as if I wrote that.

327 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:19:35pm

re: #317 000G

No, because the difference between appearing as a hypocrite and being a hypocrite doesn't seem significant to me when compared to live or dead brother.

Why do you keep talking about a dead or alive brother, when that wasn't the choice? At this point it looks like intention obfuscation.

Why do you need to accept your brother's death when in other instances you would not?

I don't need to. I'm saying I would.

More specifically, why do you need to accept it because of your views on policy?

Again, I don't 'need' to. Where did you get 'need' from? It appears to have been obtained rectally.

Why is your desire of maintaining your status of not being a hypocrite in policy questions determining whether you accept your borther's death or not?

It's not. That's not why I'd do it. I don't know how else to explain it to you. It's not to appear as anything, or to maintain anything. You're completely misreading this.

Again: What would you have me do, rather than accept it? Are you confused about the word 'accept' or something?

328 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:20:09pm

re: #303 oslogin

Well, the good thing about this is that ms. Geller will have no audience in Norway anymore. If anyone is stupid enough to link to anything she has written, someone will soon point out that post.

Hey, we might all be Socialists. But at least we're well-read Socialists.

Pam and the rwnj only know one flavor of Socialism --the kind that has concentration camps. They don't seem to get that every Western country, including the US, has implemented many socialist concepts into their economy.

329 kirkspencer  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:20:16pm

Boehner's in sell mode for the bill. He's got a powerpoint presentation of why it's a good deal for the House Republicans. PDF version of it is at [Link: www.speaker.gov...] .

Not the whole deal, mind you, just Boehner's selling points. Still, worth looking at (if your stomach can take it.)

330 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:20:21pm

re: #319 albusteve

but non of that would mean a thing if they lose their job...re-election trumps everything

Many of the Teahadi's aren't career politicians, this is their first gig and they were sent to destroy the "beast." Honey badger don't care, honey badger don't give a shit, it just takes what it wants.

331 elizajane  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:20:45pm

Coming in late here...
Just when you think it's really, really impossible for this woman to sink any lower, she surprises you again. It's beyond parody.

A horrible site called "Maggie's Notebook," cross-referenced to Geller's site on Memeorandum, contains further atrocious material and actually THANKS Breivik for exposing the evils of this Youth Camp. Some really creepy comments follow, including:
"I have had no sorrow for these Hitler Youth (To call them children is a lie. They were young adults who could very easily look up the truth and refused to do so.) The so-called “camp” was nothing more than a propaganda mill, so prevalent in anti-Semitism that the only thing that was missing was the replica of Auschwitz with the gas chambers and the huddled Jews being forced into them."

I won't dignify the site by linking to it. It made me want to throw up.

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:21:22pm

re: #196 eclectic infidel

Guess it had to happen sometime soon. It's just so 'Pam'. Who else would attempt to blame murdered kids besides Ms Geller?

Debbie Schlussel, and Glenn Beck...

333 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:21:23pm

re: #304 Mr Pancakes

Thanks... happened many years ago... here's an old article I found.

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

You know what's sad? That's not the story I'm thinking of. There was another. With the Escondido Police.

It was this one. They suck.

334 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:22:17pm

I think looking back at age 24 about how I was back in high school, I was probably naive about Israel not knowing the history and having not seen some of the vicious Anti-Semitic propaganda. I don't see criticism of Israel as being Anti-Semitic, shit no one should beyond criticism and I criticize my own country when I feel we're wrong. I of course do understand people who feel Israel is unfairly targeted by some of those on the left who totally ignore how backwards many of Israel's critics are on the issue of religious minorities, women, and gays/lesbians. Plus I hate how being a Zionist has been made out to be a bad thing. There's no reason why the Jewish people shouldn't enjoy the right to national sovereignty. I am not opposed to a Palestinian state either for that matter.

335 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:22:38pm

re: #323 Sergey Romanov

Be sure to use this unexpurgated copy if you write about it ;) [Link: www.webcitation.org...]

Charles. Might want to add this link [Link: www.webcitation.org...] to an update.

336 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:22:45pm

re: #328 ggt

Pam and the rwnj only know one flavor of Socialism --the kind that has concentration camps. They don't seem to get that every Western country, including the US, has implemented many socialist concepts into their economy.

Like liberal muslim kenyan nazi healthcare!

337 JJ42  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:23:00pm

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

Why? Because when you're at that age it's easy to see things a bit one-sided. Given the media coverage of Israel, I'm not surprised that a lot of young people view the conflict as sort of "poor, oppressed palestinians fighting a desperate battle against the racist apartheid state of Israel, backed by the imperialistic US of A".

338 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:23:36pm

re: #330 goddamnedfrank

Many of the Teahadi's aren't career politicians, this is their first gig and they were sent to destroy the "beast." Honey badger don't care, honey badger don't give a shit, it just takes what it wants.

maybe political martyrs?...all along I've had the notion that once they taste the dope, they'll want more, regardless of politics, principle, ideology...but I get your point

339 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:23:50pm

re: #318 Obdicut

I hope he treated your family well. I know he worked his ass off on the case, because he was obsessive as hell. Could be a bit, ah, abrasive and callous, though.

Actually he did, but through one of his associates ...... I remember his last name was Brown. He finally told us to settle which was the best option probably...... in death you don't get too much. If it's permanent disability you get a lot more. Belli's lawyer "Mr Brown" asked if his nephew could come down and write a story about my sister in law. We said sure.... he came down, we put him up, gave him a big advance. He hung around for a few months, we supplied him a bunch of memorabilia of hers and he took off, never to be seen again. My mother in law just said screw it.

340 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:23:56pm

re: #326 Sergey Romanov

Please, don't quote in such a way that it appears as if I wrote that.

Sorry, my bad.

341 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:23:59pm

re: #327 Obdicut

Why do you keep talking about a dead or alive brother, when that wasn't the choice?

If dead or alive brother is due to specific policy in question, then it is in part about choice as policies are results of choices.

I don't need to. I'm saying I would.

Again, I don't 'need' to. Where did you get 'need' from? It appears to have been obtained rectally.

It's obtained from reading [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It's not. That's not why I'd do it. I don't know how else to explain it to you. It's not to appear as anything, or to maintain anything. You're completely misreading this.

You seem to be saying here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and here: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] that your acceptance would be a neccessary result of your stance on policies and your not being a hypocrite.

Again: What would you have me do, rather than accept it?

Why would I have you do anything rather than what you would want to do?

342 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:24:36pm

re: #324 Stanley Sea

Holy shit Mr. IHOP. I think I remember this story.

If you were around in 83 you just might.

343 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:25:12pm

re: #340 ggt

Sorry, my bad.

No problem. You know how these things can easily be taken out of context.

344 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:25:52pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

345 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:25:55pm

re: #333 Stanley Sea

You know what's sad? That's not the story I'm thinking of. There was another. With the Escondido Police.

It was this one. They suck.

Yea that was recent...

346 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:25:56pm

re: #337 JJ42

Why? Because when you're at that age it's easy to see things a bit one-sided. Given the media coverage of Israel, I'm not surprised that a lot of young people view the conflict as sort of "poor, oppressed palestinians fighting a desperate battle against the racist apartheid state of Israel, backed by the imperialistic US of A".

Is this really so bad in Norway as some write?

347 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:26:03pm

Where the fuck are there Middle Easterners in this image?

I see mostly Europeans, one black woman, and what looks like one Indian guy. At least he looks Indian to me. Guy lying down in the white short. Foreground.

348 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:26:07pm

re: #343 Sergey Romanov

No problem. You know how these things can easily be taken out of context.

Just being internet challenged. put the line in the wrong spot.

349 JJ42  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:27:01pm

re: #303 oslogin

I've never read her blog. There are just too many words and too much stupid. I prefer straight to the point, without bad research and logical fallacies.

350 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:27:13pm

re: #341 000G

If dead or alive brother is due to specific policy in question, then it is in part about choice as policies are results of choices.

No. You have no idea if the brother would have remained alive if the other policy had been chosen. Why are you choosing to ignore that?


It's obtained from reading [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The word 'need' does not appear there, nor any synonym of it.

that your acceptance would be a neccessary result of your stance on policies and your not being a hypocrite.

Yes. Not in order to not be a hypocrite, and not to not appear as a hypocrite. Do you not understand the difference? This may be a language problem.

Why would I have you do anything rather than what you would want to do?

Jesus. You said you disagreed. So, what would you think I should do, rather than accept it?

351 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:27:20pm

re: #347 Gus 802

Where the fuck are there Middle Easterners in this image?

Everywhere. You just have to find them, like Waldo.

352 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:27:49pm

So, Steve, are we going together to the nail shop?

I wanna get my toes done too.

353 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:28:09pm

re: #347 Gus 802

And the other question is, why would it matter?

354 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:28:40pm

re: #347 Gus 802

Where the fuck are there Middle Easterners in this image?

I see mostly Europeans, one black woman, and what looks like one Indian guy. At least he looks Indian to me. Guy lying down in the white short. Foreground.

The boy in the front row, on our right, is Sikh, to judge by his head covering. Girl in the center could be Arab, or Jewish, or Italian, or Spanish, or Greek, or Armenian...

355 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:28:53pm

re: #272 Olsonist

I dunno if anyone else has noticed but FQ Kafir completely owns the Bottom 10 list. Has anyone ever done that before?

He did have one point that got me thinking.

This is wrong, in many ways.

But the way that it got me thinking is that the Right Wing (especially the Paulians and Libertarians) trot out a flat tax. Do they every trot out a flat tax for businesses?

I have to ask - why is the O in your avatar shaped like a toilet seat?

356 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:28:58pm

re: #320 ggt

I'm not so sure I agree with that.

Depends on the kid.

I certainly wasn't.

Depends on the time, place, and people. Post-war Pittsburgh Democrats were raised to be pro-(The Exodus Version of) Israel.

357 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:29:39pm

re: #329 kirkspencer

Boehner's in sell mode for the bill. He's got a powerpoint presentation of why it's a good deal for the House Republicans. PDF version of it is at [Link: www.speaker.gov...] .

Not the whole deal, mind you, just Boehner's selling points. Still, worth looking at (if your stomach can take it.)

Perhaps, if I bang my head really hard a dozen times against the wall, this will all start to make sense. Ugh.

358 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:29:59pm

re: #347 Gus 802

Where the fuck are there Middle Easterners in this image?

I see mostly Europeans, one black woman, and what looks like one Indian guy. At least he looks Indian to me. Guy lying down in the white short. Foreground.

The Indian guy is a Sikh.

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:30:03pm

re: #356 Decatur Deb

Depends on the time, place, and people. Post-war Pittsburgh Democrats were raised to be pro-(The Exodus Version of) Israel.

I don't remember learning anything outside of WWII context about the Jews and Israel. I wasn't into foreign policy when I was young. I didn't read the newspaper past the TV and Movie Listings. I had far more fun things on my mind. . . .

360 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:30:31pm

re: #353 jaunte

And the other question is, why would it matter?

Hmm.

At first they were "shocked" like everybody else - when they thought that white kids were shot. They even asked - why would he shoot his own, "does.not.compute.blah".

Now that they think that all of them were coloreds and anyway not purebloods, they can finally breathe easily - no empathy.

361 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:31:00pm

re: #354 SanFranciscoZionist

The boy in the front row, on our right, is Sikh, to judge by his head covering. Girl in the center could be Arab, or Jewish, or Italian, or Spanish, or Greek, or Armenian...

Really? He looks European to me and just wearing the head covering. Anyway. My other question would be, "how in the world could she see Middle Easterners in that image?" That's how twisted her little mind is. She's seeing things that aren't there.

362 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:31:39pm

re: #358 Killgore Trout

The Indian guy is a Sikh.

I meant the guy to the left of him.

363 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:31:41pm

re: #352 ggt

So, Steve, are we going together to the nail shop?

I wanna get my toes done too.

just a little bauble I give myself...but only when the president speaks...my toenails are already princess perfect

364 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:32:01pm

re: #359 ggt

I don't remember learning anything outside of WWII context about the Jews and Israel. I wasn't into foreign policy when I was young. I didn't read the newspaper past the TV and Movie Listings. I had far more fun things on my mind. . . .

Grew up in all-boy 'boarding' schools. We had time to read a lot.

365 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:32:20pm

re: #360 Sergey Romanov

Hmm.

At first they were "shocked" like everybody else - when they thought that white kids were shot. They even asked - why would he shoot his own, "does.not.compute.blah".

Now that they think that all of them were coloreds and anyway not purebloods, they can finally breathe easily - no empathy.

Because only colored-people can be librulls. (except Purple People--and they don't have personhood status yet).

366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:32:30pm

re: #334 HappyWarrior

Plus I hate how being a Zionist has been made out to be a bad thing. There's no reason why the Jewish people shouldn't enjoy the right to national sovereignty. I am not opposed to a Palestinian state either for that matter.

I just hate it that my Jewish friends have been made to feel like they must be in the closet on their own ideas about Israel. Totally unacceptable. This condition has to be dismantled.

367 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:32:32pm

re: #350 Obdicut

No. You have no idea if the brother would have remained alive if the other policy had been chosen. Why are you choosing to ignore that?

I am not ignoring it: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The word 'need' does not appear there, nor any synonym of it.

Oh, I thought you had made an argument in there about how your views on the policies leading up to (causing or not preventing) of your brother's death would determine your acceptance of your brother's death and that that argument was one involving neccessity rather than contingency. My bad.

Yes. Not in order to not be a hypocrite, and not to not appear as a hypocrite. Do you not understand the difference?

I understand the difference between being and appearance. But if hypocrisy has nothing to do with this, then why did you bring it up?

Jesus. You said you disagreed. So, what would you think I should do, rather than accept it?

My disagreement does not mean that you should do something differently.

368 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:32:49pm

re: #347 Gus 802

Where the fuck are there Middle Easterners in this image?

I see mostly Europeans, one black woman, and what looks like one Indian guy. At least he looks Indian to me. Guy lying down in the white short. Foreground.

You see, if you don't keep racially pure blood lines, the potential is that any of those people could be polluted, so you have to take drastic steps to make sure.
/

369 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:32:59pm

re: #364 Decatur Deb

Grew up in all-boy 'boarding' schools. We had time to read a lot.

ooh, sorry.

370 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:33:50pm

re: #368 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You see, if you don't keep racially pure blood lines, the potential is that any of those people could be polluted, so you have to take drastic steps to make sure.
/

You are right, I forgot about that.

People can get infected with non-pure ideas . . .

371 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:34:03pm

re: #347 Gus 802

Where the fuck are there Middle Easterners in this image?

I see mostly Europeans, one black woman, and what looks like one Indian guy. At least he looks Indian to me. Guy lying down in the white short. Foreground.

We all look alike to them, doesn't matter where we're from, doesn't matter who we actually are.

The dumb bigot mentality can't be made any starker than that.

372 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:34:04pm

One of Pam's commenters is in full Knights Templar mode.....

I find it highly amusing that the Norwegians like to play at being relevant, as if they are. The Jews and the Israeli people are under the protection of the Knights Templar, by no less an authority than Andrew Brevik. To be sure, they may not like it, but they are. To be a socialist is to be a crime against humanity, to act in furtherance of socialism is commit a crime against humanity. Those who live by the sword and attack others and act to destroy their own countries will suffer such in return.
....
I won't call Andrew Brevik a madman and I won't cry for the dead on Utoya Island, either, "for I have seen Him in the watch fires of 1,000 circling camps.


Pam, It's time to start turning your reader's information to the authorities, These are dangerous people.

373 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:34:22pm

re: #370 ggt

Creeping shariatis

374 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:00pm

re: #361 Gus 802

Really? He looks European to me and just wearing the head covering. Anyway. My other question would be, "how in the world could she see Middle Easterners in that image?" That's how twisted her little mind is. She's seeing things that aren't there.

Could be either, but I'm going to say Indian, just by his face--and either way, a kid wearing that is a Sikh, even if he's ethnic European, or mixed. The guy next to him, I agree, Indian.

And yes, almost everybody we haven't mentioned looks like a white kid from Minnesota, which is, I assume, what Norwegians look like.

375 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:09pm

At any time between the ages of 40 and death, does the brain just stop accepting pain signals from the knees.

I'm so tired of hurting.

376 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:13pm

re: #357 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Perhaps, if I bang my head really hard a dozen times against the wall, this will all start to make sense. Ugh.

it all makes perfect sense...step away from all the histrionics and you'll see for yourself...the only default is when the GOP obstructionists hit the bricks next election....can't have that

377 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:13pm

re: #360 Sergey Romanov

Hmm.

At first they were "shocked" like everybody else - when they thought that white kids were shot. They even asked - why would he shoot his own, "does.not.compute.blah".

Now that they think that all of them were coloreds and anyway not purebloods, they can finally breathe easily - no empathy.

Fucking sick. Acting just like the people they're spending their lives to hate. It's that vicious circle eh?

378 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:24pm

re: #366 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I just hate it that my Jewish friends have been made to feel like they must be in the closet on their own ideas about Israel. Totally unacceptable. This condition has to be dismantled.

What annoys me is when non Jewish people attack Jews who don't share their views on Israel as not being really Jewish. That's utter crap to me. It's why if I were Jewish, I'd be really annoyed with all these Christian fundamentalists who claim to speak for Israel. I still cringe thinking about what Robertson said about Ariel Sharon after he went in the hospital- God's judgment or some crap like that.

379 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:41pm

re: #372 Killgore Trout

Oh my. Imagine - Breivik single-handedly defends Israel from his prison cell! What an Aryan superman!

380 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:35:52pm

re: #362 Gus 802

I meant the guy to the left of him.

Ah, he's a tough call. Maybe Persian. Hard to tell.

381 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:36:03pm

re: #374 SanFranciscoZionist

Could be either, but I'm going to say Indian, just by his face--and either way, a kid wearing that is a Sikh, even if he's ethnic European, or mixed. The guy next to him, I agree, Indian.

And yes, almost everybody we haven't mentioned looks like a white kid from Minnesota, which is, I assume, what Norwegians look like.

Exactly. She's one of those idiots that confuse Sikh's with Muslim or Arabs.

382 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:36:15pm

re: #365 ggt

Because only colored-people can be librulls.

And any whites not in our preferred camp are n-lovers who must be punished and eliminated. /

(except Purple People--and they don't have personhood status yet).

Lol yeah well, neither do we in those circles.

383 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:36:48pm

re: #368 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You see, if you don't keep racially pure blood lines, the potential is that any of those people could be polluted, so you have to take drastic steps to make sure.
/

Stormfront Pamela Geller

384 JJ42  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:36:49pm

re: #310 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, guess you're right. Most of my family is anti-Israel. Some time after 9/11, I turned pro-USA/Israel. I prefer flawed democracies rather than totalitarian paradises.

385 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:36:55pm

re: #367 000G

I am not ignoring it

Yes., you are. When you say:

If dead or alive brother is due to specific policy in question, then it is in part about choice as policies are results of choices.

Then you are saying that my brother's death was due to the policy, rather than being a variable outcome no matter which policy was chosen.


I understand the difference between being and appearance. But if hypocrisy has nothing to do with this, then why did you bring it up?

Hypocrisy has to do with this. But it doesn't mean I'd think "Which of these paths would lead to hypocrisy?" and make my judgment on that. I mean that my reaction would be the non-hypocritical one because I'm not a hypocrite. It wouldn't be a decision, to accept it. It'd be a consequence of who I am, and my attributes.


My disagreement does not mean that you should do something differently.

Seriously, what is your native language? It would help me communicate with you. I'm asking you what you think that some person, in that scenario, should do if their brother was killed. You disagree on accepting it. So what should they do? What would you do?

Is all you're actually saying is that you think negotiating with terrorists is the better policy?

386 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:37:13pm

re: #380 Killgore Trout

Ah, he's a tough call. Maybe Persian. Hard to tell.

Exactly! It is hard to tell, so why even try?

In the end all we know is that he is a human being. Does anything other than that really matter?

387 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:37:32pm

Weigel can be pretty funny for a pundit:


daveweigel daveweigel

And On the Seventh Day, Moody's Rested.

388 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:37:54pm

re: #379 Sergey Romanov

Oh my. Imagine - Breivik single-handedly defends Israel from his prison cell! What an Aryan superman!

I have a couple short swords in the basement but I'm not sure I can defend myself without some chain mail. I'll chek with my local blacksmith Monday morning.
The Templars are coming!

389 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:38:38pm

re: #372 Killgore Trout

One of Pam's commenters is in full Knights Templar mode...


Pam, It's time to start turning your reader's information to the authorities, These are dangerous people.

all it lacks is the trumpets and drums....this guy is outside the box

390 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:38:55pm

re: #375 ggt

At any time between the ages of 40 and death, does the brain just stop accepting pain signals from the knees.

I'm so tired of hurting.

Talk some w/ albusteve about pain--he knowss the drill.

391 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:40:27pm

re: #386 ggt

Exactly! It is hard to tell, so why even try?

In the end all we know is that he is a human being. Does anything other than that really matter?

Anyone who can look at that picture of happy, smiling kids, and not feel gut-wrenched that they got shot, is fucking insane.

I have a friend who was in the Nazi Youth as a kid. Why? Because his parents told him it was the right thing to do and he loved them. Later he realized how monstrous Nazism was and was ashamed, though he'd only been a kid.

We didn't fight WWII against the Nazi youth. At no point did Americans massacre unarmed Nazi youth who were going camping. The analogy on its own is a foul, contemptible thing.

392 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:41:29pm

re: #327 Obdicut

Why do you keep talking about a dead or alive brother, when that wasn't the choice? At this point it looks like intention obfuscation.

I don't need to. I'm saying I would.

Again, I don't 'need' to. Where did you get 'need' from? It appears to have been obtained rectally.

It's not. That's not why I'd do it. I don't know how else to explain it to you. It's not to appear as anything, or to maintain anything. You're completely misreading this.

Again: What would you have me do, rather than accept it? Are you confused about the word 'accept' or something?

Explain to him that accept approve.

393 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:41:38pm

What is so ironic is that Pam and her ilk are doing exactly what they espouse to hate.

First, it is only This group that is maligned. Then, once This group is all gone, That group is noticed and scrutinized.

That group is eliminated. Then Other group is left in the spotlight and you know what happens to The Other group.

It goes on and one until the only pronoun left is Me.

394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:42:03pm

re: #378 HappyWarrior

What annoys me is when non Jewish people attack Jews who don't share their views on Israel as not being really Jewish. That's utter crap to me. It's why if I were Jewish, I'd be really annoyed with all these Christian fundamentalists who claim to speak for Israel. I still cringe thinking about what Robertson said about Ariel Sharon after he went in the hospital- God's judgment or some crap like that.

Robertson, Hagee, eventually all of them show their true colors. And they're actually an improvement over the others in the Christian-fundo conservative camp, usually lewrockwell.com types who believe Jews must be "condemned to wander" or some shyt, thus .il is against the will of The Lord™.

The entire lot of them needs to be raptured out of here, asap.

395 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:42:25pm

re: #371 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

We all look alike to them, doesn't matter where we're from, doesn't matter who we actually are.

The dumb bigot mentality can't be made any starker than that.

I think we can safely call Pamela Geller a racist. Not a simple bigot or part time Islamaphobe but a downright honest to goodness, certifiable, racist pig.

396 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:42:43pm

re: #391 Obdicut

Anyone who can look at that picture of happy, smiling kids, and not feel gut-wrenched that they got shot, is fucking insane.

I have a friend who was in the Nazi Youth as a kid. Why? Because his parents told him it was the right thing to do and he loved them. Later he realized how monstrous Nazism was and was ashamed, though he'd only been a kid.

We didn't fight WWII against the Nazi youth. At no point did Americans massacre unarmed Nazi youth who were going camping. The analogy on its own is a foul, contemptible thing.

It's really twisted. I mean, in an elementary way they are USING something horrible to justify their hatred. Acting like it's occuring again. It shames history. (we've talked about this before)

397 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:43:03pm

re: #395 Gus 802

I think we can safely call Pamela Geller a racist. Not a simple bigot or part time Islamaphobe but a downright honest to goodness, certifiable, racist pig.

OF course she is.

398 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:43:09pm

re: #391 Obdicut

And to forestall any pedantry-- I don't actually mean insane. I mean evil. Anyone who can look at that photo and not feel bad that so many of those kids are dead, but instead start analyzing it for clues as to their guilt on other issues, is evil.

399 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:43:42pm

re: #361 Gus 802

Really? He looks European to me and just wearing the head covering. Anyway. My other question would be, "how in the world could she see Middle Easterners in that image?" That's how twisted her little mind is. She's seeing things that aren't there.

There were a couple of victims who were Middle Eastern. Both were young women whose families came to Norway when they were younger. One was Turkish, the other an Iraqi Kurd. IIRC, the Kurdish gril's family came as refugees. Sad, that part.

The NY Times didn't have all the victims photos up yesterday, so there may have been more. Wait, it looks like there might be one more as they have some new photos up now.

400 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:43:54pm

re: #394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Robertson, Hagee, eventually all of them show their true colors. And they're actually an improvement over the others in the Christian-fundo conservative camp, usually lewrockwell.com types who believe Jews must be "condemned to wander" or some shyt, thus .il is against the will of The Lord™.

The entire lot of them needs to be raptured out of here, asap.

Sister Sarah who wears her Star of David proudly, occasionally.

401 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:44:37pm

re: #394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Robertson, Hagee, eventually all of them show their true colors. And they're actually an improvement over the others in the Christian-fundo conservative camp, usually lewrockwell.com types who believe Jews must be "condemned to wander" or some shyt, thus .il is against the will of The Lord™.

The entire lot of them needs to be raptured out of here, asap.

I don't know. Thinking you need to support Israel because its supposed to exist before the Second Coming and the End Times just doesn't strike me as the most solid foundation for a relationship.

402 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:44:56pm

re: #399 CuriousLurker

A cop friend of mine just had to tell a Somali refugee couple that their son had been shot and killed. He said it's the worst feeling in the world when you have to tell people who fled to this country to get away from violence that their child is dead from violence.

Norway provided a refuge for those kids, and Brevick took that away.

403 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:45:28pm

re: #385 Obdicut

Yes., you are. When you say:

Then you are saying that my brother's death was due to the policy, rather than being a variable outcome no matter which policy was chosen.

That's not ignoring it. Something can be the result of something else without it being neccessary so. Called contingent (note also my "in part").

I mean that my reaction would be the non-hypocritical one because I'm not a hypocrite. It wouldn't be a decision, to accept it. It'd be a consequence of who I am, and my attributes.

Okay, so you just are a non-hypocrite and your being a non-hypocrite doesn't have to anything with choices regarding consistency of your actions and words and all of that. It's just who you are. I'm impressed.

I'm asking you what you think that some person, in that scenario, should do if their brother was killed.

I don't have an answer to that. I am a very arrogant person, but I am not arrogant enough to make general prescriptions for other people on how to deal with the deaths of loved ones.

You disagree on accepting it.

I disagree on accepting it for reasons having to do with hypocrisy.

What would you do?

I don't know. I think any answer I could come up with would be pretentious. The abstractness of the thought experiment just doesn't live up to the emotional impact of the reality (which is of import).

404 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:45:31pm

re: #400 Stanley Sea

Sister Sarah who wears her Star of David proudly, occasionally.

Does she know what tshootzpa is?

405 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:45:59pm

So, did ABB have plastic surgery to look more Aryan or not?

If he did, it would give me an explanation for his pretty boy photo shoot.

406 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:46:18pm

re: #401 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I don't know. Thinking you need to support Israel because its supposed to exist before the Second Coming and the End Times just doesn't strike me as the most solid foundation for a relationship.

Pragmatically speaking, that's better than nothing.

407 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:46:41pm

re: #403 000G

I don't have an answer to that. I am a very arrogant person, but I am not arrogant enough to make general prescriptions for other people on how to deal with the deaths of loved ones.

Then why the fuck did you say you disagreed? How is that not a prescription?

408 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:46:50pm

re: #405 ggt

So, did ABB have plastic surgery to look more Aryan or not?

If he did, it would give me an explanation for his pretty boy photo shoot.

He looks like a board now.

409 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:46:59pm

re: #404 Sergey Romanov

Does she know what tshootzpa is?

It's choot-spa

410 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:00pm

re: #402 Obdicut

A cop friend of mine just had to tell a Somali refugee couple that their son had been shot and killed. He said it's the worst feeling in the world when you have to tell people who fled to this country to get away from violence that their child is dead from violence.

Norway provided a refuge for those kids, and Brevick took that away.

Yeah, it adds an extra degree of suckiness to the whole tragedy.

411 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:09pm

re: #408 Sergey Romanov

He looks like a board now.

Damn fingers. That's "boar".

412 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:18pm

re: #399 CuriousLurker

There were a couple of victims who were Middle Eastern. Both were young women whose families came to Norway when they were younger. One was Turkish, the other an Iraqi Kurd. IIRC, the Kurdish gril's family came as refugees. Sad, that part.

The NY Times didn't have all the victims photos up yesterday, so there may have been more. Wait, it looks like there might be one more as they have some new photos up now.

Most of them are younger than me. Have to say the whole story gave me real bad flashbacks back to the Virginia Tech Massacre. I wasn't there but tons of friends and some family who are Hokies. The attempts by Beck, Geller, and others to turn these people in the victims has been madness.

413 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:27pm

re: #399 CuriousLurker

There were a couple of victims who were Middle Eastern. Both were young women whose families came to Norway when they were younger. One was Turkish, the other an Iraqi Kurd. IIRC, the Kurdish gril's family came as refugees. Sad, that part.

The NY Times didn't have all the victims photos up yesterday, so there may have been more. Wait, it looks like there might be one more as they have some new photos up now.

Damn. That's hard to look at. Those poor kids. They didn't stand a chance.

414 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:27pm

re: #405 ggt

Most Norwegians really don't need Aryaning up.

415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:45pm

re: #360 Sergey Romanov

Hmm.

At first they were "shocked" like everybody else - when they thought that white kids were shot. They even asked - why would he shoot his own, "does.not.compute.blah".

Now that they think that all of them were coloreds and anyway not purebloods, they can finally breathe easily - no empathy.

Well, it's just more of their anti-n-lover mentality. Liberal whites are every bit as expendable as we are. Ask the Liuzzo family.

Cultural conservatives are quite vicious against perceived as race traitors. That's how they keep the conformists among them in line, by stoking handwringing about so-called "multiculturalism", race mixing, communism (same thing to them), busing, socialism, kenyans, muslims, etc.

416 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:46pm

re: #409 ggt

It's choot-spa

Sure, I went for phonetic transcription.

417 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:47:55pm

re: #399 CuriousLurker

There were a couple of victims who were Middle Eastern. Both were young women whose families came to Norway when they were younger. One was Turkish, the other an Iraqi Kurd. IIRC, the Kurdish gril's family came as refugees. Sad, that part.

The NY Times didn't have all the victims photos up yesterday, so there may have been more. Wait, it looks like there might be one more as they have some new photos up now.

The YOUTH, the youth lost. Tears. And fuck Pam et al, who have already classified these young people. They were the YOUTH. Who's brains are growing, who's definitions of what's life (and politics) was growing. Stopped in their tracks.

So damn sad.

418 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:48:44pm

re: #355 b_sharp

I have to ask - why is the O in your avatar shaped like a toilet seat?

VERY GOOD!!

We do call it a toilet seat. It's the class logo for the Olson 30, the sailboat I cut my teeth on and still one of my favorites. In a handicap race, if we beat another boat sometimes we'll say, you just got beat by a toilet seat. The font is Renfrew.

419 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:48:54pm

Is it just me or is Michelle Bachman looking more and more like a Stepford Wife?

421 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:49:21pm

re: #412 HappyWarrior

Most of them are younger than me. Have to say the whole story gave me real bad flashbacks back to the Virginia Tech Massacre. I wasn't there but tons of friends and some family who are Hokies. The attempts by Beck, Geller, and others to turn these people in to the bad guys has been maddening.
Sorry, just really angry about this whole thing and not thinking straight.

422 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:49:34pm

re: #420 Varek Raith

Norquist Claims "Concern" That Gov't Will Dictate Light Bulbs, Cars People Can Have, Is "Biggest Thing Holding Back" Economy

...
..
.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

It was funny until they showed how serious they meant it.

423 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:49:45pm

re: #404 Sergey Romanov

Does she know what tshootzpa is?

That's Sister Sarah's LIFE.

424 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:50:01pm

re: #407 Obdicut

Then why the fuck did you say you disagreed? How is that not a prescription?

There is a morally significant difference between saying "I am disagreeing with that, hence I shall not partake in it or emulate it or follow it" and saying "I am disagreeing with that, hence you or everybody in general should not etc.". The former is not a prescription.

425 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:50:10pm

re: #413 Gus 802

Damn. That's hard to look at. Those poor kids. They didn't stand a chance.

makes you want to light up the mother fucker doesn't it?

426 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:50:23pm

re: #416 Sergey Romanov

Sure, I went for phonetic transcription.

How do you phonetically spell the sound of clearing your throat?

427 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:50:40pm

re: #420 Varek Raith

Norquist Claims "Concern" That Gov't Will Dictate Light Bulbs, Cars People Can Have, Is "Biggest Thing Holding Back" Economy

...
..
.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

How this man is taken seriously in conservative circles, I'll never know. The one nice thing about Norquist is that he's not a crazy bigot about Muslims but he is so utterly stupid when it comes to government.

428 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:50:42pm

re: #375 ggt

At any time between the ages of 40 and death, does the brain just stop accepting pain signals from the knees.

I'm so tired of hurting.

Not so far. I'll be 56 in four weeks and my knees still hurt.

429 JJ42  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:50:43pm

re: #346 Sergey Romanov

Hard to say. From the media, I get the impression that there are quite a lot of Israel-haters in our country. That may be right, but I also think that the haters simply make a lot more noise than the supporters. It's like in that P.J O'Rourke quote:

"How come," I asked Andy, "whenever something upsets the Left, you see immediate marches and parades and rallies with signs already printed and rhyming slogans already composed, whereas whenever something upsets the Right, you see two members of the Young Americans for Freedom waving a six-inch American flag?"
"We have jobs," said Andy.


(Needless to say, this was written long before the Tea Parties)

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:51:48pm

re: #395 Gus 802

I think we can safely call Pamela Geller a racist. Not a simple bigot or part time Islamaphobe but a downright honest to goodness, certifiable, racist pig.

Oh, I'm not averse to that at all. She's been way beyond the garden variety rank-and-file rwnj internet bigot for years. But I would also say that at this point in her 15 minutes, that makes her a straight up demagogue, too.

431 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:51:56pm

re: #425 albusteve

makes you want to light up the mother fucker doesn't it?

Best case scenario would be to extradite Andres Breivik to Texas. Just a daydream of course.

432 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:52:03pm

re: #412 HappyWarrior

re: #413 Gus 802

re: #417 Stanley Sea

Yeah. *SIGH*

All those lives, all the promise, snuffed out in a heartbeat by pure hatred. Geller & the others who are trying to somehow blame these kids for their own murders are...I don't have the words right now.

433 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:52:09pm

re: #426 ggt

How do you phonetically spell the sound of clearing your throat?

It's чutzpah v. хutzpah. :P

434 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:52:15pm

re: #399 CuriousLurker

I can't imagine. Move your children to Norway from Iraq...

435 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:52:47pm

re: #415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh another DAMN.

436 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:52:53pm

re: #424 000G

There is a morally significant difference between saying "I am disagreeing with that, hence I shall not partake in it or emulate it or follow it"

Then again: are you saying you disagree in that you'd prefer a negotiation with the terrorists? In the end, is that all you're saying?

Why are you so reticent to talk about whether or not English is your first language? Obviously you've got an excellent command as English, but just as obviously you sometimes totally misinterpret nuances. I'm assuming that English isn't your first language because it seems the most reasonable explanation. It's not an attack.

437 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:52:59pm

re: #431 Gus 802

Best case scenario would be to extradite Andres Breivik to Texas. Just a daydream of course.

I can be there tomorrow

438 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:53:40pm

re: #392 b_sharp

Explain to him that accept approve.

That should be accept != approve.

439 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:54:15pm

re: #436 Obdicut

Nothing like fucking up my English while asking someone else if they're a native English speaker.

Whoo-hoo.

440 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:54:29pm

re: #272 Olsonist

I dunno if anyone else has noticed but FQ Kafir completely owns the Bottom 10 list. Has anyone ever done that before?

He did have one point that got me thinking.

This is wrong, in many ways.

But the way that it got me thinking is that the Right Wing (especially the Paulians and Libertarians) trot out a flat tax. Do they every trot out a flat tax for businesses?

Yes, it's been done before, but it's pretty rare.
Heh.

441 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:54:42pm

re: #427 HappyWarrior

How this man is taken seriously in conservative circles, I'll never know. The one nice thing about Norquist is that he's not a crazy bigot about Muslims but he is so utterly stupid when it comes to government.

Exactly.

This is how abysmally low the bar is set.

442 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:54:53pm

re: #426 ggt

How do you phonetically spell the sound of clearing your throat?

MMHHMMHGGGH

443 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:55:02pm

re: #432 CuriousLurker

All those lives, all the promise, snuffed out in a heartbeat by pure hatred. Geller & the others who are trying to somehow blame these kids for their own murders are...I don't have the words right now.

It's merely a warm-up, a "dress rehearsal" if you will, for how they're going to spin it when the same thing happens in the US.

444 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:55:12pm

re: #412 HappyWarrior

Most of them are younger than me. Have to say the whole story gave me real bad flashbacks back to the Virginia Tech Massacre. I wasn't there but tons of friends and some family who are Hokies. The attempts by Beck, Geller, and others to turn these people in the victims has been madness.

I'm sorry to hear you were affected by that. I'm sorry that ANYONE has to be affected by that.

445 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:55:29pm

re: #432 CuriousLurker

re: #413 Gus 802

re: #417 Stanley Sea

Yeah. *SIGH*

All those lives, all the promise, snuffed out in a heartbeat by pure hatred. Geller & the others who are trying to somehow blame these kids for their own murders are...I don't have the words right now.

It makes me miss the days pre-internet, when the fact that people out there harboured that much hate was never put right on display in my face in the comfort of my own home, and I didn't have to know about it.

446 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:55:48pm

re: #415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Cultural conservatives are quite vicious against perceived as race traitors.

Blah, pimf:

Cultural conservatives are quite vicious against perceived race traitors.

447 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:55:57pm

re: #427 HappyWarrior

Is Norquist the one with a Muslim wife who's demonized by the wingnuts?

LOL.

448 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:56:03pm

re: #436 Obdicut

Then again: are you saying you disagree in that you'd prefer a negotiation with the terrorists? In the end, is that all you're saying?

No, I simply disagree with the notion that there is any importance of my views on policies or being a hypocrite or not when it comes to my acceptance or non-acceptance of the death of a loved one, which seemed to be the argument you were making.

449 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:56:43pm

re: #440 Floral Giraffe

Yeah. It's rare. Usually preceding a flouncing pronouncement.

450 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:57:00pm

re: #443 publicityStunted

It's merely a warm-up, a "dress rehearsal" if you will, for how they're going to spin it when the same thing happens in the US.

Blockade, shift blame, claim victim-hood, spout conspiracy, rinse and repeat.

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:57:35pm

LOOK! THERE'S A MIDDLE-EASTERNER OR A MIXED CASE UNDER YOUR BED!

452 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:57:48pm

re: #450 Idle Drifter

Blockade, shift blame, claim victim-hood, spout conspiracy, rinse and repeat.

You forgot No True Scotsman and Godwin.

453 tnguitarist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:57:57pm

re: #432 CuriousLurker

Yeah. *SIGH*

All those lives, all the promise, snuffed out in a heartbeat by pure hatred. Geller & the others who are trying to somehow blame these kids for their own murders are...I don't have the words right now.

I don't know if this language has a word for that. Closest I can come is.....Monster.

454 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:58:24pm

re: #448 000G

No, I simply disagree with the notion that there is any importance of my views on policies or being a hypocrite or not when it comes to my acceptance or non-acceptance of the death of a loved one, which seemed to be the argument you were making.

It's not an argument, dude. Why the hell do you think I was making an argument?

And again: Why do you dodge the question about whether the English language is your first one? No one else here had a problem interpreting what I said. You did.

455 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:58:34pm

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

Next women and men will be playing tennis together and they'll call it "Mixed-Doubles". You know where that can lead . . .

/

456 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:58:39pm

hi Pam!....had enough yet?

457 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:58:39pm

re: #442 Stanley Sea

MMHHMMHGGGH

LOL!
Not, Ptui?

458 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:58:40pm

re: #447 Stanley Sea

Is Norquist the one with a Muslim wife who's demonized by the wingnuts?

LOL.

Yep, Gaffney thinks he's a Muslim Brotherhood operative. I wish I could write fiction better because I'd love to write a novella ala the Manchurian Candidate where in this case the radical counter Jihadist is actually the Jihadist.

459 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:58:49pm

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

Female, in her twenties and hot???

460 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:59:23pm

re: #443 publicityStunted

It's merely a warm-up, a "dress rehearsal" if you will, for how they're going to spin it when the same thing happens in the US.

I hope to God you're wrong and that it won't happen to anyone anywhere ever again, but I fear you're not. If it happens here...nope, not gonna go there.

461 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:59:27pm

re: #452 ggt

You forgot No True Scotsman and Godwin.

I thought I forgot something.

462 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:59:33pm

re: #443 publicityStunted

It's merely a warm-up, a "dress rehearsal" if you will, for how they're going to spin it when the same thing happens in the US.

Now we know what FOX and the blogosphere would have looked like if it had existed in 1995, after Oklahoma City.

463 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 6:59:33pm

re: #426 ggt

How do you phonetically spell the sound of clearing your throat?

Ahem.

464 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:00:02pm

re: #445 Renaissance_Man

It makes me miss the days pre-internet, when the fact that people out there harboured that much hate was never put right on display in my face in the comfort of my own home, and I didn't have to know about it.

QFT. It's making for less comfortable sleeping these days eh?

465 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:00:12pm

re: #459 Varek Raith

Female, in her twenties and hot???

Sexist and ageist, but not a racist, I'll give you that!

////sorry

466 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:00:30pm

re: #460 CuriousLurker

I hope to God you're wrong and that it won't happen to anyone anywhere ever again, but I fear you're not. If it happens here...nope, not gonna go there.

It almost did, last week. But the Gun Shop employee didn't feel good vibes coming from the white kid he sold stuff too. He called the cops.

467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:00:32pm

re: #445 Renaissance_Man

It makes me miss the days pre-internet, when the fact that people out there harboured that much hate was never put right on display in my face in the comfort of my own home, and I didn't have to know about it.

I feel differently. These internet militia-lite cranks, tea party obama-is-a-monkey supremacists, Breitbart, Geller, and their products like ABB, etc., they only make undeniable what their targets have been talking about for generations.

They have never been out of sight out of mind for us, they've been quite in our faces. At least it's making the news, again. :/

468 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:01:02pm

re: #467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Agreed. It's more visible, not more virulent.

469 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:01:12pm

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

And Bolsheviks in the bathroom.

470 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:01:25pm

re: #418 Olsonist

VERY GOOD!!

We do call it a toilet seat. It's the class logo for the Olson 30, the sailboat I cut my teeth on and still one of my favorites. In a handicap race, if we beat another boat sometimes we'll say, you just got beat by a toilet seat. The font is Renfrew.

You sail?

I'm jealous.

471 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:02:07pm

re: #469 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And Bolsheviks in the bathroom.

And Kulturmarxisten in your TV!

472 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:02:18pm

re: #458 HappyWarrior

Yep, Gaffney thinks he's a Muslim Brotherhood operative. I wish I could write fiction better because I'd love to write a novella ala the Manchurian Candidate where in this case the radical counter Jihadist is actually the Jihadist.

Circular firing squad these wingnuts are. Perfect novel. GET TO WORK

473 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:02:34pm

I said this before. Pam Geller gets into the RNC and CPAC next year. Reagan would have posted armed guards to keep her away. Boehner and Romney will roll out the red carpet.

474 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:02:54pm

re: #454 Obdicut

It's not an argument, dude. Why the hell do you think I was making an argument?

What you wrote down in #203 looked to have a logical form usually found in arguments, i.e. you seemed to want to make a point by way of a formal argument in reply to a post about strained logic. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there.

No one else here had a problem interpreting what I said. You did.

Correction: I am the only one who expressed opposition and you took that to be a result of an alleged problem of interpretation on my part.

475 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:03:25pm

re: #445 Renaissance_Man

It makes me miss the days pre-internet, when the fact that people out there harboured that much hate was never put right on display in my face in the comfort of my own home, and I didn't have to know about it.

The part that bothers me isn't so much know that they're out there it's know that it's now wayyy easier for them to communicate with each other and spread their hate around.

477 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:03:36pm

re: #444 CuriousLurker

I'm sorry to hear you were affected by that. I'm sorry that ANYONE has to be affected by that.

Thanks CL. I just remember one of the first things I did on facebook was to try to see how my close friends at Tech were. Thankfully they were okay but unfortunately that wasn't everyone's story. I keep on hoping that people will understand that raw hatred will get us nowhere in life. This guy who murdered these people was a coward pure and simple, and as I said after I heard about it on here that I really wished that Beck, Pam, and the otehrs would try to make the guy out to be a left winger. Yeah the dishonesty would have pissed me off I realized but at least they'd be condemning the guy but now their true colors have shown and they ain't pretty.

478 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:03:39pm

re: #463 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ahem.

a-hemmmmschpa?

479 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:04:29pm
480 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:06:00pm

re: #476 Stanley Sea

Fact sheet. I was excited.

481 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:06:25pm

re: #477 HappyWarrior

Thanks CL. I just remember one of the first things I did on facebook was to try to see how my close friends at Tech were. Thankfully they were okay but unfortunately that wasn't everyone's story. I keep on hoping that people will understand that raw hatred will get us nowhere in life.

QFT

This guy who murdered these people was a coward pure and simple, and as I said after I heard about it on here that I really wished that Beck, Pam, and the otehrs would try to make the guy out to be a left winger. Yeah the dishonesty would have pissed me off I realized but at least they'd be condemning the guy but now their true colors have shown and they ain't pretty.

True colors indeed. Apparently their hate had no boundaries. None. Whatsoever.

482 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:06:39pm

re: #439 Obdicut

Nothing like fucking up my English while asking someone else if they're a native English speaker.

Whoo-hoo.

It be funny.

I think we all need a bit of humour right about now.

483 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:07:50pm

How does another persons existence really affect one's personal life? If that person isn't living in your household, who the fuck cares what they do, or sleep with, or pray to or eat or whatever?

484 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:08:05pm

re: #466 ggt

It almost did, last week. But the Gun Shop employee didn't feel good vibes coming from the white kid he sold stuff too. He called the cops.

And a good thing he did.

485 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:08:34pm

re: #480 Stanley Sea

Fact sheet. I was excited.

More like, "Holy Gravel, I hope I get re-elected" sheet.

486 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:09:48pm

re: #474 000G

You were giving me the benefit of the doubt? What are you even talking about?

Nothing I wrote resembles a formal argument, and certainly not a prescriptive one. It was entirely about the way that I'd feel in certain circumstances. You misinterpreted it, and then much of the rest of what I'd said-- like claiming I said 'need' when I hadn't.

And for whatever reason, you cannot let this the fuck go, and understand that you've been constantly misinterpreting what I said. Along the way, you've accused me of some pretty monstrous shit.

Think about what went wrong here, dude.

487 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:09:53pm

re: #470 b_sharp

You sail?

I'm jealous.

I can simulate sailing for you.

① Put on a raincoat.
② Go to your shower and turn on the cold water and jump in.
③ Now, take out your wallet and tear up $100 bills and yell Starboard!.

488 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:10:29pm

re: #476 Stanley Sea

Welcome Wonks. Read it and report. Here's the White House Face sheet on the debt deal

Ugh, I hate to use this term, but the words in the URL feel so Orwellian to me. This deal is not a "victory", it's not a "compromise", and it's not "bi-partisan" (at least, in the sense of what that word should mean).

No tax/revenue increases at all, and the TPGOP already whining about so-called defense cuts that might or might not take place? Granted, there's no balanced budget amendment, but still - do you call it a "victory" if someone demands you chop off all four of your limbs, then "relents" and lets you chop off only two?

forgive me...I'm just bummed out by the bad guys always, always, winning.

489 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:10:56pm

re: #487 Olsonist

I can simulate sailing for you.

4-start cursing and say "props broken".

490 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:11:12pm

O HAI
I BILDED VIKTORI MOSK IN UR BATHROOM WILE U SLEPT

Image: fatwa1.jpg

491 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:11:30pm

re: #487 Olsonist

5. forget to duck, smash your head against the wall of the shower stall.

492 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:11:59pm

re: #458 HappyWarrior

Yep, Gaffney thinks he's a Muslim Brotherhood operative. I wish I could write fiction better because I'd love to write a novella ala the Manchurian Candidate where in this case the radical counter Jihadist is actually the Jihadist.

I'm waiting for the same meme to be applied to Herman Cain, now that he apologized for being an anti-shariah idiot.

493 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:12:06pm

re: #491 jaunte

5. forget to duck, smash your head against the wall of the shower stall.

good one!

494 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:12:17pm

Gotta go get ready for Monday. Take care, Lizards.

495 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:12:58pm

re: #491 jaunte

5. forget to duck, smash your head against the wall of the shower stall.

6-hold on to the shampoo bottle so it doesn't fall.

496 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:13:28pm

Evening Lizardim. So, the vast unhinged are still unhinged and the Teabaggers are set to proclaim victory on the budget debacle. Tell me again why I'm in a good mood?

497 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:13:56pm

re: #496 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim. So, the vast unhinged are still unhinged and the Teabaggers are set to proclaim victory on the budget debacle. Tell me again why I'm in a good mood?

Tomrrow's Monday?

:0

498 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:14:13pm

re: #492 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm waiting for the same meme to be applied to Herman Cain, now that he apologized for being an anti-shariah idiot.

lololol

Google first, THEN post, OC.

First link from ["herman cain" "muslim brotherhood"]:

Herman Cain Apologizes … to the Muslim Brotherhood

lmao

499 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:14:53pm

re: #497 ggt

Tomrrow's Monday?

:0

I said GOOD mood, blockhead. *WHACK!*

500 JJ42  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:14:59pm

re: #490 Sergey Romanov

O HAI
I BILDED VIKTORI MOSK IN UR BATHROOM WILE U SLEPT

Image: fatwa1.jpg

Heh

501 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:15:05pm

re: #488 publicityStunted

Ugh, I hate to use this term, but the words in the URL feel so Orwellian to me. This deal is not a "victory", it's not a "compromise", and it's not "bi-partisan" (at least, in the sense of what that word should mean).

No tax/revenue increases at all, and the TPGOP already whining about so-called defense cuts that might or might not take place? Granted, there's no balanced budget amendment, but still - do you call it a "victory" if someone demands you chop off all four of your limbs, then "relents" and lets you chop off only two?

forgive me...I'm just bummed out by the bad guys always, always, winning.

That's pretty good, Boehner's powerpoint slides state that the second half of the ceiling increase is reliant on either A) the commission's recommendations being passed or B) the BBA being submitted to the states for ratification. And, contrary to the president's assertion, Boehner's states that the commission's set-up means it's "virtually impossible" to increase taxes.

Obama got rolled.

502 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:15:26pm

re: #487 Olsonist

I can simulate sailing for you.

How did you do those marvelous number "bullet points"?

503 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:15:35pm

re: #496 thedopefishlives

You're Nikkei?
Shares Jump on US Deal, Nikkei Above 10,000

504 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:15:36pm

re: #451 Sergey Romanov

If Golshifteh Farahani wants to hang out under my bed, I can deal with that.

505 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:16:17pm

re: #487 Olsonist

I can simulate sailing for you.

While singing the theme song to "Gilligan's Island".
LOL!

506 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:16:26pm

re: #394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Robertson, Hagee, eventually all of them show their true colors. And they're actually an improvement over the others in the Christian-fundo conservative camp, usually lewrockwell.com types who believe Jews must be "condemned to wander" or some shyt, thus .il is against the will of The Lord™.

Hagee's little talk about Hitler being the "hawk" that God sent to direct the Jews back to Israel sticks in my head.

Extrapolate that statement into the future and Anti-Semitism--whereever, whenever--becomes goddidit. At very least, you've got believers that are secretly happy when Jews feel the need to go back to Israel.

507 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:16:39pm

re: #498 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

lololol

Google first, THEN post, OC.

First link from ["herman cain" "muslim brotherhood"]:

Herman Cain Apologizes … to the Muslim Brotherhood

lmao

Heh they're a self parody. Herman Cain is now officially a member of the Muslim conspiracy. These people probably think kabob shops are a set up to convert people to Islam.

508 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:16:47pm

re: #487 Olsonist

I can simulate sailing for you.

sailing is a lot of fun....owning the boat is not...I had a 29ft Hunter and unless it was on the water it was a constant pain in the ass....a good friend had a 52ft aluminum hulled sloop...a wicked cool boat but it was 90% of their life...sailing it around the world, but what a beast that thing was....good memories really

509 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:17:48pm

re: #495 ggt

7. PROFIT!

510 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:18:17pm

re: #496 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim. So, the vast unhinged are still unhinged and the Teabaggers are set to proclaim victory on the budget debacle. Tell me again why I'm in a good mood?

Drugs?

511 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:18:19pm

re: #509 laZardo

8. Buy Bronze!

512 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:18:19pm

re: #508 albusteve

One of my college professors has a sailboat that he kept in the Chesapeake. Every year, after the final exams were graded, he would fly out with his wife and they'd sail the East Coast over summer break. I always envied him the luxury, it sounded like such a cool way to spend the summer.

513 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:18:24pm

re: #502 ggt

How did you do those marvelous number "bullet points"?

On a Mac, Edit->Special Characters->Digits
On a PC, store.apple.com

514 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:18:41pm

re: #499 thedopefishlives

I said GOOD mood, blockhead. *WHACK!*

Just put it out there.

515 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:18:41pm

re: #504 negativ

If Golshifteh Farahani wants to hang out under my bed, I can deal with that.

Wouldn't you prefer for her to hang out ON the bed? I mean, for everyone's comfort?

516 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:19:05pm

re: #507 HappyWarrior

Heh they're a self parody. Herman Cain is now officially a member of the Muslim conspiracy. These people probably think kabob shops are a set up to convert people to Islam.

Hmph! Some only authentic black in the race he turned out to be. All stealth muslims look alike, anyway. What! I am NOT a racist. So *shut up*!

517 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:19:21pm

re: #515 SanFranciscoZionist

Seems more hospitable.

518 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:19:47pm

re: #515 SanFranciscoZionist

Wouldn't you prefer for her to hang out ON the bed? I mean, for everyone's comfort?

Four is a crowd. /

519 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:20:09pm

re: #513 Olsonist

I ♡ it!

520 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:21:43pm

re: #512 thedopefishlives

One of my college professors has a sailboat that he kept in the Chesapeake. Every year, after the final exams were graded, he would fly out with his wife and they'd sail the East Coast over summer break. I always envied him the luxury, it sounded like such a cool way to spend the summer.

living on a boat for weeks or months at a time is a totally different set of priorities...a ton of stuff to think about and plan for....if you like it it must be very exciting

521 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:21:56pm

re: #486 Obdicut

Nothing I wrote resembles a formal argument,

Yes, it does. Reread 203:

If my brother died in a no-knock warrant, I would not accept it because I don't think no-knock warrants are good policy.

If he died as the result of a car crash caused by a high-speed chase, as an innocent bystander, I'd not accept it because I don't think high-speed chases are good policy.

If my brother died because he was a hostage and the government refused to negotiate with the terrorists holding him, or died during a raid to recover him, I'd accept that, because I support that policy.

In each sentence you make an if-then-because connection in which a) "if" is a scenario in which your brother dies due to some policy, b) you accept your brother's death or not, and c) the particulars of b) (acceptance or non-acceptance) is explained by your particular stance on the policy in a). Seems like an argument to me.

and certainly not a prescriptive one.

I did not say it was prescriptive.

It was entirely about the way that I'd feel in certain circumstances.

Each time with your acceptance being predicated on what your stance on the involved policy was up until the event. Okay.

You misinterpreted it,

I don't think I did.

and then much of the rest of what I'd said-- like claiming I said 'need' when I hadn't.

I never claimed you had said "need".

Along the way, you've accused me of some pretty monstrous shit.

I don't think I accused you of anything monstrous (I reserve that term for actual bloodshed and such). I am merely trying to clarify some of the consequences of the thought experiment you proposed.

522 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:22:50pm

yay, f'd up quote tags.

oh well, gtg anyway.

523 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:22:51pm

re: #513 Olsonist

On a Mac, Edit->Special Characters->Digits

I'm old school: [Link: support.apple.com...]

524 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:23:16pm

Ah, there it is. Coldstone Cake Batter ice cream.

525 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:23:26pm

I'm really wondering how much a sheltered life Michelle Bachman has had to have lead to not know how to pronounce chutzpah.

I shocked because I didn't know there was such a rock in the Western World.

Really??

526 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:24:03pm

Forget the angels. What happens when an irresistible force bumps into an immovable stone?

527 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:24:25pm

re: #523 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'm old school: [Link: support.apple.com...]

oh, bookmarked,

Thank you

528 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:24:41pm

re: #526 Sergey Romanov

Forget the angels. What happens when an irresistible force bumps into an immovable stone?

Gravel

529 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:24:42pm

re: #526 Sergey Romanov

Forget the angels. What happens when an irresistible force bumps into an immovable stone?

Big bang

530 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:25:06pm

re: #526 Sergey Romanov

LGF thread.

531 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:25:15pm

re: #521 000G

I didn't propose a thought experiment.

Since you seem determined to pretend I've said things I haven't, and refuse to acknowledge that you've misinterpreted what I've said despite being shown where you have, I'm going to stop talking to you about this.

And yes, I do consider you to have accused me of nasty shit, and I'm not likely to forget that anytime soon.

532 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:26:00pm

re: #526 Sergey Romanov

Forget the angels. What happens when an irresistible force bumps into an immovable stone?

a current LGF sub thread

533 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:26:05pm

re: #525 ggt

Winterset, Iowa.

534 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:26:39pm

re: #533 jaunte

Or Waterloo, I forget.

535 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:27:45pm

re: #534 jaunte

Or Waterloo, I forget.

NO excuse, she must have gone thru law school and lived the rest of her life with blinders, and ear plugs.

536 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:28:01pm

re: #519 ggt

I ♡ it!

Why?

♠ ♣ ♥ ♦

537 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:29:18pm

re: #536 b_sharp

Why?

♠ ♣ ♥ ♦

It's just soo ✰✰✰✰✰!

538 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:29:31pm

re: #506 The Ghost of a Flea

Hagee's little talk about Hitler being the "hawk" that God sent to direct the Jews back to Israel sticks in my head.

Extrapolate that statement into the future and Anti-Semitism--whereever, whenever--becomes goddidit. At very least, you've got believers that are secretly happy when Jews feel the need to go back to Israel.

Yeah, better than overt supercessionism. But dang the slow pace of moving away from that. Eesh. In the end the goal is the same anyway...a desire for the violent deaths of adherents to every other religion but their preferred one.

539 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:29:36pm

re: #535 ggt

I think that's it.

540 justaminute  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:29:48pm

re: #476 Stanley Sea

Welcome Wonks. Read it and report. Here's the White House Face sheet on the debt deal

I've gone to take the temperature of my fellow Liberals. Liberal blogs and the general liberals are coming to the realization that any Democrat that votes for this bill needs a primary. Who do they think they are kidding? A cut to Medicare Providers just means the Medicare Provider cuts Medicare recipients. And the Medicare Provider cuts staff jobs. And sure the are going to cut the budget of the Military-Industrial complex vs. the safety net. That committee will be 3 hardcore leaning tea party Republicans and at least 1 Blue Dog on the Democratic side.

541 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:30:21pm

re: #537 ggt

It's just soo ✰✰✰✰✰!

Two byte chars are so much fun.

542 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:31:41pm

re: #541 b_sharp

Two byte chars are so much fun.

ASCII? I don't know what this about.

543 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:31:52pm

re: #540 justaminute

I've gone to take the temperature of my fellow Liberals. Liberal blogs and the general liberals are coming to the realization that any Democrat that votes for this bill needs a primary. Who do they think they are kidding? A cut to Medicare Providers just means the Medicare Provider cuts Medicare recipients. And the Medicare Provider cuts staff jobs. And sure the are going to cut the budget of the Military-Industrial complex vs. the safety net. That committee will be 3 hardcore leaning tea party Republicans and at least 1 Blue Dog on the Democratic side.

Hey now, why aren't you celebrating? We're avoiding a default! Sure, we're exchanging a gulp of hemlock for sipping arsenic, but hey, we got the Republicans to deal! Good times!

/// (No, I'm not bitter...)

544 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:32:06pm

re: #540 justaminute

I've gone to take the temperature of my fellow Liberals. Liberal blogs and the general liberals are coming to the realization that any Democrat that votes for this bill needs a primary.

?

Not the pragmatics.

545 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:33:34pm

re: #540 justaminute

I've gone to take the temperature of my fellow Liberals. Liberal blogs and the general liberals are coming to the realization that any Democrat that votes for this bill needs a primary. Who do they think they are kidding? A cut to Medicare Providers just means the Medicare Provider cuts Medicare recipients. And the Medicare Provider cuts staff jobs. And sure the are going to cut the budget of the Military-Industrial complex vs. the safety net. That committee will be 3 hardcore leaning tea party Republicans and at least 1 Blue Dog on the Democratic side.

Gonna have to read about the deal itself before I draw any conclusions. I am upset that the Republicans didn't seem to have compromised as much. Though, I am glad we avoided a default but I understand liberals' frustrations.

546 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:33:36pm

re: #535 ggt

NO excuse, she must have gone thru law school and lived the rest of her life with blinders, and ear plugs.

From what I know about the law school she went to, they hand out blinders on the first day of registration.

I still am dying to know, though: did she ever take classes from Anita Hill or not!

547 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:33:50pm

re: #542 Naso Tang

ASCII? I don't know what this about.

If you have Windoz, go to the character map and you'll see a pile of characters beyond the standard ASCII 256 char limit.

Ggt and me were just playing with them.

548 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:34:20pm

re: #543 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

We need to vote out the Tea Party types, and, hell, most Republicans in congress, when it comes down to it.

A rather large challenge, but the problems they pose in the legislative process really can't be just handwaved away or yelled at until they disappear.

549 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:35:02pm

re: #547 b_sharp

If you have Windoz, go to the character map and you'll see a pile of characters beyond the standard ASCII 256 char limit.

Ggt and me were just playing with them.

Actually, to be strict, the ASCII character set is limited to 128. Strict ASCII is 7 bits, the top bit is ignored.

550 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:35:23pm

re: #548 Obdicut

We need to vote out the Tea Party types, and, hell, most Republicans in congress, when it comes down to it.

A rather large challenge, but the problems they pose in the legislative process really can't be just handwaved away or yelled at until they disappear.

Yeah, until that happens, rolling over for them at every opportunity is not going to do anything to convince the country that getting rid of them is for the best.

551 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:35:41pm

re: #547 b_sharp

If you have Windoz, go to the character map and you'll see a pile of characters beyond the standard ASCII 256 char limit.

Ggt and me were just playing with them.

010101110110010101101100011011000010110000100000011101000110100001100001011101000010000001101001011100110010000001110011011100000110010101100011011010010110000101101100

552 justaminute  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:36:08pm

re: #544 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

?

Not the pragmatics.

I don't have a link but one of the last comments said the California Democratic Party has voted to Primary the President. And then everyone started suggesting names.

553 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:36:31pm

re: #549 thedopefishlives

Actually, to be strict, the ASCII character set is limited to 128. Strict ASCII is 7 bits, the top bit is ignored.

Memory coming back. That's 1 byte.

554 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:37:12pm

re: #549 thedopefishlives

Actually, to be strict, the ASCII character set is limited to 128. Strict ASCII is 7 bits, the top bit is ignored.

Yup, you're right. It's been quite a while since I've done any real coding.

555 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:37:54pm

re: #553 Naso Tang

Memory coming back. That's 1 byte.

Nope, 8 bits in a byte, just the top bit is ignored in the original ASCII charset. Makes for fun times when programming, because the default "character" data type can be either 7, 8, or 16 bits depending on what character set you're in.

556 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:37:54pm

ಠ_ಠ

557 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:38:13pm

re: #550 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, until that happens, rolling over for them at every opportunity is not going to do anything to convince the country that getting rid of them is for the best.

This was a rather long, drawn-out fight. I'm not sure saying that it was rolling over for them at every opportunity.

Seriously, if one party in the legislative process is both unwilling to compromise and willing to cause enormous damage to the country by holding up vital legislation, it's pretty effective blackmail. To not give into it, in this case actually engaging with default, has pretty dire consequences. So does the blackmail itself. But that's really not the fault of the Democrats. In the end, it's the American people who elected these gasbags, and we have to ask why the American people are so ill-informed.

558 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:38:18pm

I am really hoping they kept the Pell Grants. Makes no sense to deny kids the chance to stay in school and get an education. That idiot Rehberg who compared it to welfare is an elitist dick.

559 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:38:38pm

re: #552 justaminute

I don't have a link but one of the last comments said the California Democratic Party has voted to Primary the President. And then everyone started suggesting names.

Oh, that I seriously doubt. Lol I'd love to see that list of names, though.

Sounds like FDL shills from that New Progressive Alliance or thatOctober 2011 thing, or one of those.

560 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:39:11pm

re: #558 HappyWarrior

I am really hoping they kept the Pell Grants. Makes no sense to deny kids the chance to stay in school and get an education. That idiot Rehberg who compared it to welfare is an elitist dick.

They were thinking about cutting those?! They really are determined to make the US dead last in education, aren't they?

561 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:39:19pm

re: #553 Naso Tang

Memory coming back. That's 1 byte.

4 bits = nibble
8 bits = byte
2 bytes = word (16bit)
4 bytes = word (32bit)

I love the nibble.

562 Daniel Ballard  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:39:20pm

By this measure the market is unimpressed with the deal. The 60 day chart shows the increase in the gold price (Roughly $140) caused largely by this crisis. The day chart shows the $15 dip when the news broke.

Image: 60dayGold.gif

Image: gold.gif

563 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:40:44pm

re: #555 thedopefishlives

Yes. I thought it was 7 with the 8th ignored. I used to do this stuff, base 8, 16 and all. It's not only the knees that go.

564 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:40:46pm

re: #553 Naso Tang

Memory coming back. That's 1 byte.

How many bytes does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

565 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:40:49pm

re: #556 laZardo

ಠ_ಠ

r u sad panda?

566 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:40:52pm

re: #560 thedopefishlives

They were thinking about cutting those?! They really are determined to make the US dead last in education, aren't they?

Yeah, the Tea Party caucus at least did I believe. Not sure about Boehner but there definitely was a vocal element within the GOP caucus that wanted to give an enormous middle finger to the university students of this country. And conservatives wonder why students lean left.

567 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:40:54pm

re: #551 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

01010111011001010110110001101100001011000010000001 11010001101000011000010111010000100000011010010111 00110010000001110011011100000110010101100011011010 010110000101101100

01001001011100110110111000100111011101000010000001101001011101000010000001110100011010000110111101110101011001110110100000101110

568 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:41:02pm

re: #555 thedopefishlives

Nope, 8 bits in a byte, just the top bit is ignored in the original ASCII charset. Makes for fun times when programming, because the default "character" data type can be either 7, 8, or 16 bits depending on what character set you're in.

4 byts a dollar!

569 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:41:15pm

*runs into room*

Excellent article by Abraham Foxman of the ADL. He's calling people out, someone please Page this:

Norwegian attacks stem from a new ideological hate

*races back out door...*

570 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:41:54pm

re: #564 ggt

How many bytes does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

One.

571 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:42:02pm

re: #567 b_sharp

01001001011100110110111000100111011101000010000001 10100101110100001000000111010001101000011011110111 0101011001110110100000101110

Буря мглою небо кроет,
Вихри снежные крутя;
То, как зверь, она завоет,
То заплачет, как дитя,
То по кровле обветшалой
Вдруг соломой зашумит,
То, как путник запоздалый,
К нам в окошко застучит.

572 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:42:38pm

re: #565 Sergey Romanov

r u sad panda?

Applied for inventory-junkie work at Old Navy. But considering that I might be overqualified for that sort of job, and underqualified for the major-related career work, then it's possible.

ಥ_ಥ

573 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:42:43pm

re: #567 b_sharp

01001001011100110110111000100111011101000010000001 10100101110100001000000111010001101000011011110111 0101011001110110100000101110

0100100100100000011000110110010101110010011101000110000101101001011011100110110001111001001000000111010001101000011010010110111001101011001000000111001101101111

574 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:42:53pm

re: #563 Naso Tang

Yes. I thought it was 7 with the 8th ignored. I used to do this stuff, base 8, 16 and all. It's not only the knees that go.

The low-level world where you had to know all these details is all going away with the new 4th- and 5th-generation programming languages. By current programming standards, even I'm a dinosaur.

575 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:42:59pm

re: #569 CuriousLurker

*runs into room*

Excellent article by Abraham Foxman of the ADL. He's calling people out, someone please Page this:

Norwegian attacks stem from a new ideological hate

*races back out door...*

Did you shut the door?

576 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:43:20pm

re: #572 laZardo

Eh. Good luck.

577 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:43:45pm

I have to pay attention to the dogs. Cat Overlord says so.

bbiab

578 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:44:25pm

re: #571 Sergey Romanov

Буря мглою небо кроет,
Вихри снежны� x0435; крутя;
То, как зверь, она завоет,
То заплач� x0435;т, как дитя,
То по кровле обветш� x0430;лой
Вдруг соломо� x0439; зашуми� x0442;,
То, как путник запозд� x0430;лый,
К нам в окошко застуч� x0438;т.

Do you really expect me to decrypt this?

579 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:01pm

The thread is losing any kind of focus....

580 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:06pm

re: #557 Obdicut

This was a rather long, drawn-out fight. I'm not sure saying that it was rolling over for them at every opportunity.

Seriously, if one party in the legislative process is both unwilling to compromise and willing to cause enormous damage to the country by holding up vital legislation, it's pretty effective blackmail. To not give into it, in this case actually engaging with default, has pretty dire consequences. So does the blackmail itself. But that's really not the fault of the Democrats. In the end, it's the American people who elected these gasbags, and we have to ask why the American people are so ill-informed.

Ask away. In the mean time, the blackmailers just got everything but the kitchen sink. They got to stand for their "principles" and ours got shredded. As I said, we traded a quick death for a slow, drawn out one. One that the Tea Partiers are going to capitalize on next November. Why? Because the average American is an utter dumbass who now hears both parties screaming "We need 'reform'!"

581 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:12pm

Wow Foxman called out Spencer and Geller directly. I guess Pam is going to tell Mr. Foxman he's not a real Jew and that he doesn't care about fighting Anti-Semitism even though his organization has been infinitely more effective at fighting Anti-Semitism than Pam ever will be.

582 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:15pm

re: #571 Sergey Romanov

Буря мглою небо кроет,
Вихри снежны� x0435; крутя;
То, как зверь, она завоет,
То заплач� x0435;т, как дитя,
То по кровле обветш� x0430;лой
Вдруг соломо� x0439; зашуми� x0442;,
То, как путник запозд� x0430;лый,
К нам в окошко застуч� x0438;т.

Ah.... so the movie I watched last night must have been Russian. It had them funny letters.

583 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:18pm

re: #557 Obdicut

In the end, it's the American people who elected these gasbags, and we have to ask why the American people are so ill-informed.

Look at the current Bottom 10 sweep for your answer. The Koch-funded right-wing propaganda machine is the most effective in history. Like I said earlier, the bad guys won.

584 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:33pm

re: #569 CuriousLurker

*runs into room*

Excellent article by Abraham Foxman of the ADL. He's calling people out, someone please Page this:

Norwegian attacks stem from a new ideological hate

*races back out door...*

Thanks!

Got it done!

585 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:34pm

re: #569 CuriousLurker

A wonderful piece.

PS: I can finally forgive him for his old anti-mosque stance.

586 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:43pm

re: #569 CuriousLurker

*runs into room*

Excellent article by Abraham Foxman of the ADL. He's calling people out, someone please Page this:

Norwegian attacks stem from a new ideological hate

*races back out door...*

Doo doo doo dadoo, looking out my back door...

587 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:44pm

Obama is a pussy. A simpering, spineless pussy.

I have almost zero respect for the man right now. I won't just be holding my nose when I vote for him in 2012, i'll be gagging and trying to hold down my lunch.

588 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:45:57pm

re: #578 b_sharp

Do you really expect me to decrypt this?

But you can't!!1

//

589 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:46:03pm

re: #579 austin_blue

The thread is losing any kind of focus...

Welcome to the next level.

O_O

590 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:46:03pm

re: #525 ggt

I'm really wondering how much a sheltered life Michelle Bachman has had to have lead to not know how to pronounce chutzpah.

I shocked because I didn't know there was such a rock in the Western World.

Really??

She was UNDER it the whole time!

591 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:46:32pm

re: #574 thedopefishlives

The low-level world where you had to know all these details is all going away with the new 4th- and 5th-generation programming languages. By current programming standards, even I'm a dinosaur.

Yes, it's been that way quite a while though. But while reminiscing, did you ever do APL?

592 justaminute  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:46:38pm

re: #559 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, that I seriously doubt. Lol I'd love to see that list of names, though.

Sounds like FDL shills from that New Progressive Alliance or thatOctober 2011 thing, or one of those.

FDL did go to crazy town, but now people are spreading links to Jane Hamsher's article today. It calls for rejecting even the one's that we really like. Says that they come out and shout and shake their fist but cave in the end. Namely Bernie Sanders. They say the Repubs have been very successful in placing holds and filibusters but the Dems never do.

593 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:47:09pm

re: #591 Naso Tang

Yes, it's been that way quite a while though. But while reminiscing, did you ever do APL?

Before my time. *chuckle* My origins lie in the C/C++ world.

594 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:48:04pm

re: #587 Fozzie Bear

Obama is a pussy. A simpering, spineless pussy.

I have almost zero respect for the man right now. I won't just be holding my nose when I vote for him in 2012, i'll be gagging and trying to hold down my lunch.

"I won't sign the Boehner plan...unless I get an agreement on defense spending, then I'll sign it without a problem."

595 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:48:09pm

re: #581 HappyWarrior

Wow Foxman called out Spencer and Geller directly. I guess Pam is going to tell Mr. Foxman he's not a real Jew and that he doesn't care about fighting Anti-Semitism even though his organization has been infinitely more effective at fighting Anti-Semitism than Pam ever will be.

I think she already did in the past. She has a moniker for those - "Jewicidal".

596 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:48:38pm

re: #580 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ask away. In the mean time, the blackmailers just got everything but the kitchen sink. They got to stand for their "principles" and ours got shredded. As I said, we traded a quick death for a slow, drawn out one. One that the Tea Partiers are going to capitalize on next November. Why? Because the average American is an utter dumbass who now hears both parties screaming "We need 'reform'!"

I agree that the Democrats should be communicating their message better. But I reserve my anger for those who are actually capitalizing on the propaganda, supporting the propaganda, and outright constructing it.

What's done in this deal can be undone in future legislation. It's not a constitutional amendment.

597 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:48:49pm

☃ ☀
♡✍ on LGF

598 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:49:18pm

re: #573 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

01001001001000000110001101100101011100100111010001 10000101101001011011100110110001111001001000000111 01000110100001101001011011100110101100100000011100 1101101111

01001001001000000110010001101001011001000110111000100111011101000010000001100001011001000110010000100000011000010110111001111001001000000111001101100101011100000110000101110010011000010111010001100101011100100111001100101110001000000101011101101111011100100110010000100000011101110111001001100001011100000010000001100100011010010110010000101110

599 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:49:19pm

re: #587 Fozzie Bear

What would you have done?

600 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:49:44pm

re: #593 thedopefishlives

Before my time. *chuckle* My origins lie in the C/C++ world.

I won't ask you about Cobol, Algol and Fortran then, never mind assembler.

601 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:49:49pm
602 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:50:08pm

re: #596 Obdicut

I agree that the Democrats should be communicating their message better. But I reserve my anger for those who are actually capitalizing on the propaganda, supporting the propaganda, and outright constructing it.

What's done in this deal can be undone in future legislation. It's not a constitutional amendment.

Perhaps you missed the part that states that either the bipartisan commission, which is barred from touching taxes in any meaningful way, has its recommendations passed OR the BBA gets sent to the states for ratification before the second part of the debt ceiling increase can go through. So yeah, there is an amendment being talked about here.

603 justaminute  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:50:18pm

re: #587 Fozzie Bear

Obama is a pussy. A simpering, spineless pussy.

I have almost zero respect for the man right now. I won't just be holding my nose when I vote for him in 2012, i'll be gagging and trying to hold down my lunch.

That's why they say some primary threats to 'good' democrats and possibly Obama (which may never go through) will make him face us instead of the Tea Party.

604 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:50:38pm

re: #600 Naso Tang

I won't ask you about Cobol, Algol and Fortran then, never mind assembler.

I liked Basic.........

605 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:00pm

re: #600 Naso Tang

I won't ask you about Cobol, Algol and Fortran then, never mind assembler.

"I know karate, judo, jiujitsu (and many other scary words)".

/

606 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:20pm

Taxes will be raised. Cutting into the needed help for those wanting without the ones who have so much making a contribution. Ridiculous.

607 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:32pm

re: #604 Mr Pancakes

I liked Basic...

QuickBasic!

608 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:38pm

re: #598 b_sharp

01001001001000000110010001101001011001000110111000 10011101110100001000000110000101100100011001000010 00000110000101101110011110010010000001110011011001 01011100000110000101110010011000010111010001100101 01110010011100110010111000100000010101110110111101 11001001100100001000000111011101110010011000010111 00000010000001100100011010010110010000101110

0101100101100101011000010110100000101100001000000100100100100111011011010010000001110010011101010110111001101110011010010110111001100111001000000110100101101110011101000110111100100000011101000110100001100101001000000111001101100001011011010110010100100000011010010111001101110011011101010110010100101110

609 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:38pm

re: #600 Naso Tang

I won't ask you about Cobol, Algol and Fortran then, never mind assembler.

I learned all of those except for Algol, on my own initiative however. I've always had a facility for learning languages, and each one has its own unique niche.

610 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:38pm

re: #602 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm sorry, I thought that part had been taken out of the version that's under consideration, and I didn't know the commission was barred from considering taxes. Do you have a link to those portions of the plan?

So yeah, there is an amendment being talked about here.

Talked about is not the same thing as enacted. That BBA has no chance of being enacted.

611 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:53pm

re: #604 Mr Pancakes

I liked Basic...

That's like saying I can do cursive with my pencil.

612 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:51:57pm

re: #551 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You're so, binary!

613 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:52:52pm

4f 66 20 63 6f 75 72 73 65 2c 20 77 65 20 63 6f 75 6c 64 20 6a 75 73 74 20 74 61 6c 6b 20 69 6e 20 48 65 78 20 6c 69 6b 65 20 63 69 76 69 6c 69 7a 65 64 20 66 6f 6c 6b 73

614 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:53:12pm

re: #607 Sergey Romanov

QuickBasic!

I had TI99/4A's Extended Basic........ I loved noodling around with that back in the day.

615 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:53:14pm

re: #593 thedopefishlives

Before my time. *chuckle* My origins lie in the C/C++ world.

Same here, about 25 years ago.

616 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:53:47pm

re: #569 CuriousLurker

*runs into room*

Excellent article by Abraham Foxman of the ADL. He's calling people out, someone please Page this:

Norwegian attacks stem from a new ideological hate

"Left-wing “multiculturalist” sentiments tear down traditional European culture, they argue, allowing Muslim immigrants to replace it with “their own” culture and values. The result, they claim, will be the demographic, cultural and, eventually, political suicide of the West — unless action is taken to stop it."

Sounds familiar. Spencer/Geller/Gaffney/Buchanan and the rest of the cultural warrior bigots are duping a lot of people.

617 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:53:56pm

re: #587 Fozzie Bear

Obama is a pussy. A simpering, spineless pussy.

I have almost zero respect for the man right now. I won't just be holding my nose when I vote for him in 2012, i'll be gagging and trying to hold down my lunch.

the dems got as much as they could expect....BO could have taken his message to the public with more vigor, but I doubt it would have made a difference....it is what it is

618 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:54:02pm

re: #615 b_sharp

Same here, about 25 years ago.

Not a programmer, but fooled around in school... Borland C/C++ forever!

619 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:54:25pm

re: #611 Naso Tang

That's like saying I can do cursive with my pencil.

Well it wasn't my trade, it was more of an at home hobby.

620 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:54:27pm

re: #586 Killgore Trout

Doo doo doo dadoo, looking out my back door...

[Video]

I regret having but one upding to give!

621 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:54:31pm

re: #610 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I thought that part had been taken out of the version that's under consideration, and I didn't know the commission was barred from considering taxes. Do you have a link to those portions of the plan?

Talked about is not the same thing as enacted. That BBA has no chance of being enacted.

Kirkspencer's post up above had Boehner's points on the agreement.

622 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:54:40pm

re: #600 Naso Tang

I won't ask you about Cobol, Algol and Fortran then, never mind assembler.

COBOL, FORTRAN and Assembler were part of my degree.

623 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:55:30pm

re: #619 Mr Pancakes

Well it wasn't my trade, it was more of an at home hobby.

Just kidding. I used it a lot.

624 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:56:13pm

Oh, and C-- was also quite a cool little tool.

625 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:56:16pm

re: #621 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh. Yeah, I'm not going to take Boehner's interpretation as fact.

Look, I'm not saying shit isn't terrible, but what would you have done?

Would you have let us go into default?

626 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:57:20pm

re: #608 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

01011001011001010110000101101000001011000010000001 00100100100111011011010010000001110010011101010110 11100110111001101001011011100110011100100000011010 01011011100111010001101111001000000111010001101000 01100101001000000111001101100001011011010110010100 10000001101001011100110111001101110101011001010010 1110

010000100111010101110100001000000111100101101111011101010010000001110010011001010111000001100101011000010111010000100000011110010110111101110101011100100111001101100101011011000110011000101110

627 Achilles Tang  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:57:25pm

I'm out, to dream of programming I suppose, but APL was my favorite.

628 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:57:37pm

re: #614 Mr Pancakes

I had TI99/4A's Extended Basic... I loved noodling around with that back in the day.

Commodore 64 dork, here. I still have mine. Built-in MIDI outs and quantization, ftw!

629 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:57:52pm

re: #625 Obdicut

Oh. Yeah, I'm not going to take Boehner's interpretation as fact.

Look, I'm not saying shit isn't terrible, but what would you have done?

Would you have let us go into default?

I side with this assessment. This sort of "last minute save" was probably the most predictable result.

630 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:59:06pm

Inspired by SpaceJesus:

Image: 9164289.jpg

631 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:59:27pm

re: #625 Obdicut

Oh. Yeah, I'm not going to take Boehner's interpretation as fact.

Look, I'm not saying shit isn't terrible, but what would you have done?

Would you have let us go into default?

Yes, I sure as frak would have. I'd have played Clinton's gambit, letting the worst happen and then let the opposition explain to the public why they'd been dragging their heels for months. Why they had no problem in the past with passing clean debt ceiling bills, but suddenly demanded major budget cuts in a time of poor economic growth. I'd make them own the disaster.

Is that the only "good" thing that can be seen now? That we didn't go into default?

632 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 7:59:58pm

re: #629 laZardo

I side with this assessment. This sort of "last minute save" was probably the most predictable result.

Yeah although we're not in the clear until the vote's in and signed off on.

633 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:00:40pm

I looked at the names of the dead on Wikipedia:

7 of the kids are Muslim/Come from Muslim Majority Areas
1 is plausibly the same.

For those I can narrow down to country, we have 1 Turk, 1 Iraqi Kurd, and 1 Kosovar.

My worry about family is getting worse: There are 3 Johansens among the dead.

634 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:00:44pm

Holy cow does Firefox 5 suck. I never had such this kind of poor performance with previous Firefox releases. It stalls, stammers, crashes, and even makes the mouse stutter. What a bad release. I can't believe they made such a big deal about this release.

635 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:01:12pm

re: #628 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Commodore 64 dork, here. I still have mine. Built-in MIDI outs and quantization, ftw!

I found a TI994/A emutator on line.... now I can play with all the old games I paid mega bugs for, Munch Man, Parsec, you name it.... they even included Extended Basic....... the only problem is.... the old games were much better with a joystick.

636 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:01:41pm

Any Speccie fans here?

637 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:02:21pm

re: #630 Sergey Romanov

Use Ron Paul's face instead of the puppy, change colors to red-white-blue.

638 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:02:40pm

re: #631 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yes, I sure as frak would have. I'd have played Clinton's gambit, letting the worst happen and then let the opposition explain to the public why they'd been dragging their heels for months. Why they had no problem in the past with passing clean debt ceiling bills, but suddenly demanded major budget cuts in a time of poor economic growth. I'd make them own the disaster.

Is that the only "good" thing that can be seen now? That we didn't go into default?

oh fer fucks sake...for weeks you/people here have been in a epic dither that we would default...now that that isn't gonna happen you want more....congress is dysfunctional, why can't you understand that?...the public is far less apt to play blame games than you are...the end of the world has been delayed, rejoice

639 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:02:48pm

re: #637 laZardo

Use Ron Paul's face instead of the puppy, change colors to red-white-blue.

Good idea, you do it. //

640 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:03:19pm

re: #631 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yes, I sure as frak would have.

Okay then. I wouldn't have, because I think the consequences of default would have been terrible for the economy, and actually made it easier for the GOP to win elections. I think people would have blamed them for it, but if the final act is Obama vetoing a 'compromise' bill, I think he'd get a lot of the blame.

There's a lot of suffering that would come out of a default. Choosing between that and the suffering caused by this bill is a Hobson's choice, but at least that caused by this bill can be mitigated in future legislative action.

Why they had no problem in the past with passing clean debt ceiling bills, but suddenly demanded major budget cuts in a time of poor economic growth. I'd make them own the disaster.

The Democrats have been trying to do that. We can criticize how effectively they've done it, but they really have said those things.

I do think what they should have done is never discussed anything other than a clean deficit increase. As soon as negotiations with a blackmailer begin, you lose. However, this really, really was an unprecedented step on the part of the GOP in terms of being extremist maniacs.


Is that the only "good" thing that can be seen now? That we didn't go into default?

Yep.

641 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:03:22pm

re: #634 Gus 802

Holy cow does Firefox 5 suck. I never had such this kind of poor performance with previous Firefox releases. It stalls, stammers, crashes, and even makes the mouse stutter. What a bad release. I can't believe they made such a big deal about this release.

mine runs as smooth as a baby's butt

642 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:04:16pm

re: #641 albusteve

mine runs as smooth as a baby's butt

Talk to the hand girlfriend!

//

643 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:04:58pm

re: #613 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

4f 66 20 63 6f 75 72 73 65 2c 20 77 65 20 63 6f 75 6c 64 20 6a 75 73 74 20 74 61 6c 6b 20 69 6e 20 48 65 78 20 6c 69 6b 65 20 63 69 76 69 6c 69 7a 65 64 20 66 6f 6c 6b 73

57 65 20 63 6f 75 6c 64 20 62 75 74 20 74 68 65 6e 20 74 68 65 20 4f 63 74 61 6c 20 70 65 6f 70 6c 65 20 77 69 6c 6c 20 63 6f 6d 70 6c 61 69 6e 2e

644 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:07:06pm

re: #624 Sergey Romanov

Oh, and C-- was also quite a cool little tool.

Not familiar with C--, but I am trying to learn C#.

645 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:07:37pm

re: #643 b_sharp

57 65 20 63 6f 75 6c 64 20 62 75 74 20 74 68 65 6e 20 74 68 65 20 4f 63 74 61 6c 20 70 65 6f 70 6c 65 20 77 69 6c 6c 20 63 6f 6d 70 6c 61 69 6e 2e

2623313036333b2623313039303b2623313038363b202623313130313b2623313039303b2623313038363b202623313037343b2623313039393b202623313039303b2623313039313b2623313039303b202623313037363b2623313037373b2623313038333b2623313037323b2623313037373b2623313039303b2623313037373b3f

646 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:07:47pm

re: #372 Killgore Trout

One of Pam's commenters is in full Knights Templar mode...


Pam, It's time to start turning your reader's information to the authorities, These are dangerous people.

Transforming normal political differences into "crimes against humanity". That strips the words of all meaning and just leaves them as DERP!

647 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:07:49pm

re: #599 Obdicut

What would you have done?

I would have vetoed the bill, invoked the 14th amendment, and announced I wouldn't be running for a second term. Then I would have publicly shamed not only the GOP, but also my own party. I would challenge the people to nominate a candidate who could take a stand against those who are actively waging class warfare. I would call it class warfare, in those exact words, and I would call the current incarnation of the GOP what it is: a mirror image of the Taliban. I would apologize to the American people for failing them as a leader, and folding when I should have fought. Then I would spend the remainder of my term proposing legislation to undo the damage wrought by the GOP over the past decade, whether it had any chance of passing or not. I would explain to the American people that they will never get the government they need until they accept that they cannot have the largest military in the world while simultaneously having the lowest rates of taxation in the western world, that they are going to continue to suffer until they wake from their long stupor and force their government to make difficult choices they need to make. I would tell my pollsters to fuck off, publicly, and I would play Eisenhower's speech regarding the Military-Industrial complex as my final act, saying only that Eisenhower was absolutely correct.

Sometimes you have to take responsibility, and Obama has abjectly failed to do so. He is triangulating us all into the shitter, and it is disgusting.

648 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:07:59pm

re: #643 b_sharp

57 65 20 63 6f 75 6c 64 20 62 75 74 20 74 68 65 6e 20 74 68 65 20 4f 63 74 61 6c 20 70 65 6f 70 6c 65 20 77 69 6c 6c 20 63 6f 6d 70 6c 61 69 6e 2e

46 75 63 6b 69 6e 67 20 4f 63 74 61 6c 73 2c 20 77 69 74 68 20 74 68 65 69 72 20 77 65 65 20 62 65 61 64 79 20 65 79 65 73 2e 2e 2e

650 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:08:53pm

re: #638 albusteve

oh fer fucks sake...for weeks you/people here have been in a epic dither that we would default...now that that isn't gonna happen you want more...congress is dysfunctional, why can't you understand that?...the public is far less apt to play blame games than you are...the end of the world has been delayed, rejoice

Yeah, I got that line last December as well. "Hey, we got unemployment extended! And we'll just let the Bush Tax Cuts eclipse when they come back up in 2012. Why are you so bent out of shape?"

But hey, let us celebrate. We're set to beat the deadline, avoid default, and all we had to do was sell our souls. No great loss, right?

651 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:09:47pm

re: #647 Fozzie Bear

What if the Supreme Court rejected your interpretation of the 14th amendment? Where would that have left the country?

Then I would spend the remainder of my term proposing legislation to undo the damage wrought by the GOP over the past decade, whether it had any chance of passing or not.

Um, what good what that have done?


What chance of success would you say your strategy would have, overall?

652 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:10:03pm

re: #628 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Commodore 64 dork, here. I still have mine. Built-in MIDI outs and quantization, ftw!

We all had to start somewhere. I started with Atari 800XL. I still have an 600, 1200XL and an 512 ST.

653 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:10:10pm

re: #635 Mr Pancakes

I found a TI994/A emutator on line... now I can play with all the old games I paid mega bugs for, Munch Man, Parsec, you name it... they even included Extended Basic... the only problem is... the old games were much better with a joystick.

Yeah -- did we talk about this already -- I love it that 60 bucks gets you the patch catalog of the Fairlight CMI series for iPhone. I'd like to play around with that.

654 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:10:53pm

I used to write really, really long macros in Lotus 1-2-3.

I thought my fingers would never forget all those keystrokes. Now the only one I consistently use is @sum(A1+B1+C1+D1).

I make my own spreadsheet for finances and such.

655 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:11:02pm

re: #652 b_sharp

We all had to start somewhere. I started with Atari 800XL. I still have an 600, 1200XL and an 512 ST.

My dad had an old Atari 2600 that I would play. My first programming experience came on the Apple IIe's that my elementary school had in the library. Apple Basic was da bomb.

656 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:12:09pm

re: #650 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I got that line last December as well. "Hey, we got unemployment extended! And we'll just let the Bush Tax Cuts eclipse when they come back up in 2012. Why are you so bent out of shape?"

But hey, let us celebrate. We're set to beat the deadline, avoid default, and all we had to do was sell our souls. No great loss, right?

not to me....how and why your soul got sold is your problem....non, NON of this shit is as serious as you want it to be....constantly living in such a negative environment is not good for you

657 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:12:17pm

re: #636 Sergey Romanov

Any Speccie fans here?

Old coins?

658 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:12:28pm

re: #655 thedopefishlives

My dad had an old Atari 2600 that I would play. My first programming experience came on the Apple IIe's that my elementary school had in the library. Apple Basic was da bomb.

Anybody remember Archery? I think that was the last game I could ever play very well. lol

659 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:12:56pm

re: #658 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Anybody remember Archery? I think that was the last game I could ever play very well. lol

Words With Friends!

660 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:13:07pm

re: #657 b_sharp

Old coins?

I thought it was a potato pancake.

661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:13:32pm

re: #548 Obdicut

We need to vote out the Tea Party types, and, hell, most Republicans in congress, when it comes down to it.

A rather large challenge, but the problems they pose in the legislative process really can't be just handwaved away or yelled at until they disappear.

But you really want all Democrats? Of course you don't. I know you are smarter than that.

662 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:13:36pm

re: #657 b_sharp

Old coins?

zx

663 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:15:21pm

re: #637 laZardo

Image: Arpie.jpg

664 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:15:40pm

re: #647 Fozzie Bear

You'd be rendered irrelevant, in other words and you'd likely take a big chunk of the Democrats down with you.

665 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:15:49pm

re: #661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But you really want all Democrats? Of course you don't. I know you are smarter than that.

The current incarnation of the GOP has completely lost all right to govern. I'm sorry, but they have. This was a complete breaking point for me. They need to either get rid of their entire leadership, or I can't actually consider them an honest part of the American political process.

I don't want one party rule, but the GOP is not acting like a political party anymore. A new conservative party would be nice.

666 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:16:46pm

re: #657 b_sharp

Old coins?

This is what I thought of.

667 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:17:08pm

re: #661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But you really want all Democrats? Of course you don't. I know you are smarter than that.

I'll settle by rule for people who are all sane first.

Once we get that then we can work about having different political parties.

668 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:17:50pm

re: #665 Obdicut

Agreed. One party rule would be an epic disaster. Pretty soon? You'd be complaining about taxes.
/

669 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:18:06pm

re: #667 jamesfirecat

I'll settle by rule for people who are all sane first.

Once we get that then we can work about having different political parties.

legally or medically sane?

670 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:18:24pm

re: #668 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Agreed. One party rule would be an epic disaster. Pretty soon? You'd be complaining about taxes.
/

I already complain about taxes.

Taxes aren't high enough.

See?

671 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:18:31pm

Wait, it's Ramadan again?

Ramadan kareem, all of you who are celebrating.

(I would never have know, except Ishmael Khaldi just sent me holiday greetings--I mean, he sent everyone on Facebook holiday greetings--but you see what I mean.)

672 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:18:35pm

re: #651 Obdicut

What if the Supreme Court rejected your interpretation of the 14th amendment? Where would that have left the country?

Um, what good what that have done?

What chance of success would you say your strategy would have, overall?

I define success as getting the American people to stop voting against their own interests, by using and abusing the bully pulpit until my last day in office. I would challenge the American people to impeach as many members of congress as possible, and even aid in the effort. I would declare war on both parties. I would demand the formation of a centrist third party.

The American people are ready for such actions. They are fed up, and any champion for the cause would be welcomed. If somebody would say out loud what they already know to be true, that they are not represented in Washington, at all, then maybe there could some kind of change in the general zeitgeist.

I define success as being willing to face the possibility of political failure.

What good would it do? What if the supreme court disagrees?

We are already in a constitutional crisis. The government does not represent the people. Somebody needs to point that out. What better person to do so than a lame duck president with nothing to lose?

The president is a failure because he jumped out of the car the instant it became clear his opponents were playing chicken. If Obama wanted to change things, that's how to do it. Unfortunately, he is more concerned with getting a second term than he is in actual meaningful change. He is afraid of failing, and thus, he has no chance of success. He is a coward.

673 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:18:58pm

re: #656 albusteve

not to me...how and why your soul got sold is your problem...non, NON of this shit is as serious as you want it to be...constantly living in such a negative environment is not good for you

I live in a negative environment because I see absolutely nothing positive out of this outcome. It's a lose-lose situation for Democrats at this point, either abstaining from the "deal" and being seen as responsible for the default, or going with the "deal" and agreeing to inevitable cuts to the social safety net just to kick this can down the road a bit longer.

The Tea Party won, even if they don't think they did.

674 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:18:59pm

re: #667 jamesfirecat

I'll settle by rule for people who are all sane first.

Once we get that then we can work about having different political parties.

Well... ok but that means Dennis Kucinich has to go too.

675 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:19:27pm

re: #645 Sergey Romanov

2623313036333b2623313039303b2623313038363b20262331 3130313b2623313039303b2623313038363b20262331303734 3b2623313039393b202623313039303b2623313039313b2623 313039303b202623313037363b2623313037373b2623313038 333b2623313037323b2623313037373b2623313039303b2623 313037373b3f

Say what?

676 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:19:29pm

re: #667 jamesfirecat

I'll settle by rule for people who are all sane first.

Once we get that then we can work about having different political parties.

My mom, on the phone last night, "You know, I miss the kind of Republicans we used to have. They were the other guys, but they were, you know, normal. Even people like Goldwater seem so normal now--by comparison."

677 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:05pm

re: #670 Obdicut

I already complain about taxes.

heh, but I'd catch you on the other side of that one.

I wouldn't mind paying a five percent tax that went entirely toward deficit reduction; if everyone else paid in too.

But the fuckers'd find something else to do with it.

678 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:24pm

re: #674 Mr Pancakes

Well... ok but that means Dennis Kucinich has to go too.

///You can take him so long as I get his wife...

679 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:33pm

re: #665 Obdicut

I don't want one party rule, but the GOP is not acting like a political party anymore. A new conservative party would be nice.

qft

680 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:36pm

re: #672 Fozzie Bear

I define success as getting the American people to stop voting against their own interests, by using and abusing the bully pulpit until my last day in office. I would challenge the American people to impeach as many members of congress as possible, and even aid in the effort. I would declare war on both parties. I would demand the formation of a centrist third party.

The American people are ready for such actions. They are fed up, and any champion for the cause would be welcomed. If somebody would say out loud what they already know to be true, that they are not represented in Washington, at all, then maybe there could some kind of change in the general zeitgeist.

I define success as being willing to face the possibility of political failure.

What good would it do? What if the supreme court disagrees?

We are already in a constitutional crisis. The government does not represent the people. Somebody needs to point that out. What better person to do so than a lame duck president with nothing to lose?

The president is a failure because he jumped out of the car the instant it became clear his opponents were playing chicken. If Obama wanted to change things, that's how to do it. Unfortunately, he is more concerned with getting a second term than he is in actual meaningful change. He is afraid of failing, and thus, he has no chance of success. He is a coward.

Well, that would be nice. But we are such a diverse group that we have conflicting interests.

681 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:46pm

re: #675 b_sharp

Say what?

First step you know.
Second step is more or less obvious, but the quickest way is javascript:document.write("")
Third step you will know ;)

682 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:50pm

re: #674 Mr Pancakes

Well... ok but that means Dennis Kucinich has to go too.

If sacrifices have to be made...(shoves Dennis quickly under the bus).

I didn't do that!! I wasn't there!!

683 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:20:53pm

re: #661 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

But you really want all Democrats? Of course you don't. I know you are smarter than that.

I sure wouldn't. We have a representative government that legislates according to the will of the people. Ideally of course. No, many might not like what the Rand Paul's care to include in the debate he still represents the will of the people of the state of Kentucky that chose, voted, to send DC and reflect that will. The same is true with other Republicans as well as Democrats. From Rand Paul to Bernie Sanders who was chosen by the people of Vermont.

In the end, I can easily predict that neither those further towards the left or the right will be happy with the end result. The left will see cuts to cherished programs and the right will not see anything coming close to the end of the Federal government like the dismantling of the Department of Education, and so on. The final bill will be a compromise, or as close to one as possible, that reflects the current polar opposites of Republicans and Democrats. We have yet to even see what the final wording will be an people are already predicting doomsday scenarios.

684 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:27pm

It's a strange world where Nixon looks like a bleeding heart liberal. What this country honestly needs is a move to the left. I for some dumb reason thought that Obama's election could bring on a renaissance of liberal ideas but that didn't happen and it feels like the right has grown more reactionary. I know there are rational conservatives out there but they sure as hell aren't in Congress and if they are, they're too afraid of being labeled RINOs.

685 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:32pm

re: #678 jamesfirecat

///You can take him so long as I get his wife...

Really.... what was she thinking? Oh....... never mind.

686 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:40pm

re: #665 Obdicut

The current incarnation of the GOP has completely lost all right to govern. I'm sorry, but they have. This was a complete breaking point for me. They need to either get rid of their entire leadership, or I can't actually consider them an honest part of the American political process.

I don't want one party rule, but the GOP is not acting like a political party anymore. A new conservative party would be nice.

have to see how stuff plays out down the line...it will be interesting to see if Boehner takes a hit or comes out some hero...as for the TP elements, they may turn into friendly, bootlickers, who knows...I hope this thing does not fade away....this entire episode needs to be put in the public eye and heavily scrutinized....this garbage legislation and this reckless behavior needs to be dealt with

687 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:42pm

re: #663 jaunte

Image: Arpie.jpg

You forgot the goil foil hat!

688 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:42pm

re: #678 jamesfirecat

///You can take him so long as I get his wife...

How tall are you? I don't think she dates anyone who comes above her shoulder.

689 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:57pm

re: #674 Mr Pancakes

Well... ok but that means Dennis Kucinich has to go too.

That goes without saying. Let's find a jail with 535 inmates and do an even switch.

690 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:21:58pm

re: #687 ggt

Rush job!

691 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:22:25pm

re: #672 Fozzie Bear

Downding for the fantasy BS. You can't impeach members of Congress and the only one who'd be impeached if you went off like that would be you. You'd be thrown out on your ass then everyone from Fox News to The Nation would call you a loon.

692 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:22:30pm

re: #685 Mr Pancakes

Really... what was she thinking? Oh... never mind.

As far as I can tell, she adores him, and thinks he's a great man.

Which is not a bad foundation for a marriage, if you can get it.

693 jamesfirecat  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:23:12pm

re: #688 SanFranciscoZionist

How tall are you? I don't think she dates anyone who comes above her shoulder.

5'5.5 baby!

694 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:23:37pm

re: #688 SanFranciscoZionist

How tall are you? I don't think she dates anyone who comes above her shoulder.

You'd have to come pretty hard to...oh wait.

x:

695 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:23:47pm

re: #685 Mr Pancakes

Really... what was she thinking? Oh... never mind.

She certainly has an interesting resume.

696 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:23:51pm

re: #693 jamesfirecat

5'5.5 baby!

Don't forget that half!

697 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:24:08pm

re: #682 SanFranciscoZionist

If sacrifices have to be made...(shoves Dennis quickly under the bus).

I didn't do that!! I wasn't there!!

Hee hee.
We've got witnesses!

698 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:24:14pm

re: #665 Obdicut

The current incarnation of the GOP has completely lost all right to govern. I'm sorry, but they have. This was a complete breaking point for me. They need to either get rid of their entire leadership, or I can't actually consider them an honest part of the American political process.

I don't want one party rule, but the GOP is not acting like a political party anymore. A new conservative party would be nice.

Won't happen. The GOP may be going through a radical shift right now but the establishment Republicans still hold the upper hand in DC. Again, while we might not like what we hear from those further on the right such as Allen West, he still reflects the will of the people who chose to represent them. You know very well that this country is very conservative and sometime radically conservative -- when viewed from the metropolitan ideologies -- in this country.

699 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:24:20pm

re: #672 Fozzie Bear

I define success as getting the American people to stop voting against their own interests, by using and abusing the bully pulpit until my last day in office. I would challenge the American people to impeach as many members of congress as possible, and even aid in the effort. I would declare war on both parties. I would demand the formation of a centrist third party./blockquote>

Right. And what chance of success do you think that has?

The American people are ready for such actions. They are fed up, and any champion for the cause would be welcomed. If somebody would say out loud what they already know to be true, that they are not represented in Washington, at all, then maybe there could some kind of change in the general zeitgeist.

What makes you think, in particular, the American people are ready for such actions?

Why do you think any champion for 'the cause' would be welcomed? What cause is this?


I define success as being willing to face the possibility of political failure.

Well, I don't. Nor do most. I'm asking what chance of actually convincing the American public do you think you'd have?

What good would it do? What if the supreme court disagrees?

Yes. What would the actual fiscal consequences be. That's the part you're kind of avoiding in all this.

We are already in a constitutional crisis. The government does not represent the people. Somebody needs to point that out. What better person to do so than a lame duck president with nothing to lose?

Um, the problem is the government does elect the people. These Tea Party jackoffs were elected in (mostly) fair elections.


The president is a failure because he jumped out of the car the instant it became clear his opponents were playing chicken. If Obama wanted to change things, that's how to do it. Unfortunately, he is more concerned with getting a second term than he is in actual meaningful change. He is afraid of failing, and thus, he has no chance of success. He is a coward.
700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:24:24pm

re: #678 jamesfirecat

///You can take him so long as I get his wife...

DK has a hot wife?

701 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:24:42pm

re: #684 HappyWarrior

It's a strange world where Nixon looks like a bleeding heart liberal. What this country honestly needs is a move to the left. I for some dumb reason thought that Obama's election could bring on a renaissance of liberal ideas but that didn't happen and it feels like the right has grown more reactionary. I know there are rational conservatives out there but they sure as hell aren't in Congress and if they are, they're too afraid of being labeled RINOs.

If Richard Nixon was a bleeding heart liberal....... what was George McGovern?

702 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:24:59pm

re: #648 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

46 75 63 6b 69 6e 67 20 4f 63 74 61 6c 73 2c 20 77 69 74 68 20 74 68 65 69 72 20 77 65 65 20 62 65 61 64 79 20 65 79 65 73 2e 2e 2e

54 68 65 79 20 74 68 69 6e 6b 20 74 68 65 79 27 72 65 20 73 6f 20 64 61 6d 6e 20 73 70 65 63 69 61 6c 20 6e 6f 74 20 68 61 76 69 6e 67 20 74 6f 20 75 73 65 20 6c 65 74 74 65 72 73 2e

703 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:25:40pm

I trust the wisdom of President Obama and this compromise will be a good thing for this country in the long run. I support the president.

704 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:25:45pm

re: #692 SanFranciscoZionist

As far as I can tell, she adores him, and thinks he's a great man.

Which is not a bad foundation for a marriage, if you can get it.

Well, there is obviously another side to Dennis we don't get to see.

705 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:25:55pm

re: #700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DK has a hot wife?

Yes. Millions of men across America hate him for this. The rest are hoping he will explain how to do it.

706 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:07pm

re: #702 b_sharp

54 68 65 79 20 74 68 69 6e 6b 20 74 68 65 79 27 72 65 20 73 6f 20 64 61 6d 6e 20 73 70 65 63 69 61 6c 20 6e 6f 74 20 68 61 76 69 6e 67 20 74 6f 20 75 73 65 20 6c 65 74 74 65 72 73 2e

Suddenly I feel bad for not sending in enough box tops to get the decoder ring. ;___;

707 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:14pm

re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, it's Ramadan again?

Ramadan kareem, all of you who are celebrating.

(I would never have know, except Ishmael Khaldi just sent me holiday greetings--I mean, he sent everyone on Facebook holiday greetings--but you see what I mean.)

I wouldn't have known either except that various RW are complaining about it again.

708 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:21pm

re: #700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DK has a hot wife?

She's ok. She'll do.

709 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:22pm

re: #673 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I live in a negative environment because I see absolutely nothing positive out of this outcome. It's a lose-lose situation for Democrats at this point, either abstaining from the "deal" and being seen as responsible for the default, or going with the "deal" and agreeing to inevitable cuts to the social safety net just to kick this can down the road a bit longer.

The Tea Party won, even if they don't think they did.

I hate the feds, but I don't let it bother me after all these decades....this debt thing is just another ugly episode, a lot of unnecessary drama and crap for a bill, but it doesn't have to ruin your week or even day....I expected this so maybe your too idealistic

710 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:24pm

re: #703 Gus 802

WildWeazel: Debt ceiling cat is watching you negotiate

711 CuriousLurker  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:39pm

re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, it's Ramadan again?

Ramadan kareem, all of you who are celebrating.

(I would never have know, except Ishmael Khaldi just sent me holiday greetings--I mean, he sent everyone on Facebook holiday greetings--but you see what I mean.)

Yes, we start tomorrow here. Thanks!

712 HappyWarrior  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:44pm

re: #701 Mr Pancakes

If Richard Nixon was a bleeding heart liberal... what was George McGovern?

Ha, that's a good question. Seriously though if one looks at the stuff eh actually did and wanted to do, you'd feel like you're reading what Obama is accused of being by the TP.

713 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:44pm

re: #705 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Millions of men across America hate him for this. The rest are hoping he will explain how to do it.

You know what they say about the little guys. . . .

714 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:26:44pm

re: #705 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Millions of men across America hate him for this. The rest are hoping he will explain how to do it.

Come on you all.... she married him for his ears!

/

715 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:27:08pm

re: #698 Gus 802

You know very well that this country is very conservative and sometime radically conservative -- when viewed from the metropolitan ideologies -- in this country.

I really don't. I honestly think that the amount of propaganda over the past decades has had a huge effect on disinforming the American public o a large number of issues.

I know there's a large segment of the country that's radically, literally religiously conservative. But that's not the country as a whole.

Furthermore, the current GOP crap is not conservative in the least, if conservative means avoiding radical change and experimentation.

716 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:27:16pm

re: #700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DK has a hot wife?

Yes. Yes he does.

717 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:27:20pm

re: #707 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I wouldn't have known either except that various RW are complaining about it again.

It happens every year, so they may as well resign themselves to it.

Besides, what are they complaining about? They don't have to fast.

718 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:27:30pm

re: #713 ggt

Special alien powers.

719 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:27:38pm

re: #714 Mr Pancakes

Come on you all... she married him for his ears!

/

He's really a Ferengi?

720 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:28:07pm

re: #709 albusteve

I hate the feds, but I don't let it bother me after all these decades...this debt thing is just another ugly episode, a lot of unnecessary drama and crap for a bill, but it doesn't have to ruin your week or even day...I expected this so maybe your too idealistic

Cynically, I expected this to be the end, said as much the other day. But I didn't expect the final result to be this one-sided. Perhaps I am a bit idealistic still, but I try to be so because I'm too young to fully give in to the cynicism just yet.

721 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:28:44pm

re: #699 Obdicut

Well, if fucked up my tags.

My final question, Fozzie, was whether you think your attitude would change at all if your decisions had actual consequences; i.e., if you were actually president, and you could actually decide to veto everything and let the country default, would knowing that that decision actually would cause a lot of pain for others make you rethink your position at all, reconsider it in the least?

722 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:28:55pm

re: #705 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes. Millions of men across America hate him for this. The rest are hoping he will explain how to do it.

Star-fucking. As American as apple pie. Newt even gets laid.

723 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:29:00pm

re: #703 Gus 802

I trust the wisdom of President Obama and this compromise will be a good thing for this country in the long run. I support the president.

Would sir like a blindfold when facing the firing squad? A final cigarette, perhaps?

/

724 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:29:16pm

re: #711 CuriousLurker

Yes, we start tomorrow here. Thanks!

Chag sameach!(I don't know where Ish is. He's Israeli, but I think he's still in San Francisco...or London...diplomats. They move.)

725 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:29:27pm

re: #722 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Newt+Tiffany.

726 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:30:30pm

re: #703 Gus 802

I trust the wisdom of President Obama and this compromise will be a good thing for this country in the long run. I support the president.

what wisdom?...he's had practically nothing to do with any of it, it's way over his head....he's a PR guy and he didn't do that much good either...I really don't see BO in the picture

727 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:30:37pm

re: #722 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Star-fucking. As American as apple pie. Newt even gets laid.

Yeah, but it's KUCINICH.

Anyway, they seem happy. Wonkette likes to write about her appearances, and then add that her husband, who has some kind of job in Washington, was also there.

728 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:31:18pm

re: #724 SanFranciscoZionist

Chag sameach!

Is that pronounced the way I think it's pronounced?

729 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:31:27pm

re: #727 SanFranciscoZionist

She's an idealistic hippie (reading her Wiki) and he's a fucking whack-job. Match made in heaven.

730 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:31:42pm

Someone mentioned upthread something about the bully pulpit, and it made me wonder: How different would things have been if President Obama had owned the debate? I mean, literally owned it; every night, run a presser and explain how the Teabaggers were totally obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics.

731 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:32:18pm

re: #729 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LOL

732 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:32:26pm

I know that people like to have a leader, but I seriously think that a lot of our problems is having a single executive. Things get personal, a lot of atavism goes on.

733 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:32:40pm

re: #730 thedopefishlives

Someone mentioned upthread something about the bully pulpit, and it made me wonder: How different would things have been if President Obama had owned the debate? I mean, literally owned it; every night, run a presser and explain how the Teabaggers were totally obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics religious intolerance.

734 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:32:45pm

re: #728 laZardo

Is that pronounced the way I think it's pronounced?

Khag sameakh!

735 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:33:12pm

re: #715 Obdicut

I really don't. I honestly think that the amount of propaganda over the past decades has had a huge effect on disinforming the American public o a large number of issues.

I know there's a large segment of the country that's radically, literally religiously conservative. But that's not the country as a whole.

Furthermore, the current GOP crap is not conservative in the least, if conservative means avoiding radical change and experimentation.

the more tradition conservatism is officially dead

736 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:33:28pm

re: #734 Sergey Romanov

Khag sameakh!

Does any of that have the "throat clearing" sound or rolling "r's".

I have trouble with both.

737 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:33:49pm

re: #730 thedopefishlives

Someone mentioned upthread something about the bully pulpit, and it made me wonder: How different would things have been if President Obama had owned the debate? I mean, literally owned it; every night, run a presser and explain how the Teabaggers were totally obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics.

He ran so many pressers that there were articles written about how nobody was listening anymore because he was doing too many of them.

You can have as many pressers as you want, but if people don't tune in, it doesn't really matter.

He did very clearly state that the GOP was obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics, as well.

738 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:33:53pm

re: #735 albusteve

the more tradition conservatism is officially dead

Classical Liberalism too!

739 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:33:57pm

re: #736 ggt

Does any of that have the "throat clearing" sound or rolling "r's".

I have trouble with both.

No idea, really...

740 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:01pm

re: #715 Obdicut

I really don't. I honestly think that the amount of propaganda over the past decades has had a huge effect on disinforming the American public o a large number of issues.

I know there's a large segment of the country that's radically, literally religiously conservative. But that's not the country as a whole.

Furthermore, the current GOP crap is not conservative in the least, if conservative means avoiding radical change and experimentation.

Having seen this happen when Bush was in the White House -- and no not to this extreme degree -- I really am not that alarmed. The Tea Party is losing influence. They did not get everything they wanted with this compromise. Not eve close to what they wanted. Mitch McConnell instead became the lead voice from the opposite side of the aisle representing by and large establishment Republican ideas. No America is not radically conservative. But neither are most of the Republicans in congress. America is neither Jim DeMint or Bernie Sanders. America is in the middle.

741 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:08pm

re: #721 Obdicut

Well, if fucked up my tags.

My final question, Fozzie, was whether you think your attitude would change at all if your decisions had actual consequences; i.e., if you were actually president, and you could actually decide to veto everything and let the country default, would knowing that that decision actually would cause a lot of pain for others make you rethink your position at all, reconsider it in the least?

I think we are already fucked. We are being rolled around on the grill now, and we are just fighting over the positions furthest from the coals.

It's time to upend the whole grill. I no longer have any faith, at all, that the system as it currently exists can do anything other than continue to suck the poor and middle class dry. We are in a class war now, and the rich have won utterly.

742 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:30pm

re: #737 Obdicut

He ran so many pressers that there were articles written about how nobody was listening anymore because he was doing too many of them.

You can have as many pressers as you want, but if people don't tune in, it doesn't really matter.

He did very clearly state that the GOP was obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics, as well.

Exactly, in the end all people want to know is

1-how is this going to affect MY life.

743 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:45pm

re: #732 Obdicut

Buck gotta stop somewhere.

744 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:47pm

re: #741 Fozzie Bear

What does upending the whole grill mean, though?

745 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:53pm

re: #703 Gus 802

I trust the wisdom of President Obama and this compromise will be a good thing for this country in the long run. I support the president.

Stop being so reasonable!/ As usual, you lend a calm insight to a heated discussion.

746 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:34:58pm

re: #730 thedopefishlives

Someone mentioned upthread something about the bully pulpit, and it made me wonder: How different would things have been if President Obama had owned the debate? I mean, literally owned it; every night, run a presser and explain how the Teabaggers were totally obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics.

funny how many people are considering this....a few weeks ago you'd get hammered mentioning this very thing....LOL!

747 jvic  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:35:13pm

re: #682 SanFranciscoZionist

If sacrifices have to be made...(shoves Dennis quickly under the bus).

I didn't do that!! I wasn't there!!

In the spirit of quid pro quo bipartisanship, I'll toss in Eric Cantor plus (since Cantor has a leadership position and Kucinich does not) a Democratic Representative to be named later.

748 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:35:22pm

re: #737 Obdicut

He ran so many pressers that there were articles written about how nobody was listening anymore because he was doing too many of them.

You can have as many pressers as you want, but if people don't tune in, it doesn't really matter.

He did very clearly state that the GOP was obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics, as well.

Yep, he did. And the next day, the GOP and their media allies were out there, bitching that he was playing politics with the debt ceiling and that blaming them for his refusal to drop revenue enchancements was why there was no deal being made.

749 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:35:30pm

Still a shit sammich tho.

750 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:35:57pm

re: #745 prairiefire

Stop being so reasonable!/ As usual, you lend a calm insight to a heated discussion.

It's the (I) thing. ;)

751 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:36:08pm

re: #743 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Buck gotta stop somewhere.

No, it doesn't. At least when it comes to the finances of Countries. The rest of us--sure. They can just print more money, shift some columns around, change the definition of something --whatever.

And in the end, someone invades someone else and steals their shit.

752 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:36:42pm

re: #743 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Buck gotta stop somewhere.

Numerous presidents have shown that it doesn't, from Reagan's disavowal of Iran-Contra to Obama's shilly-shallying on gay marriage.

I think a consul-like system would be good, personally. Or distributed responsibilities in different areas.

this is just wanking, basically. No chance of it happening.

753 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:36:50pm

re: #741 Fozzie Bear

Hang in there, and do all any of us can do, which is VOTE. Well, and work to get out the vote. Really, the American people aren't totally stupid ( well, not all of them) and I do believe that we have the best, most Democratic system on the planet. So, all you can do, is try to make it work. we're there, trying too.

754 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:36:59pm

re: #744 Obdicut

What does upending the whole grill mean, though?

TTBO, I'm guessing.

755 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:36:59pm

re: #722 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Star-fucking. As American as apple pie. Newt even gets laid.

Yeah but it takes him two accounts at Tiffany's to do so.

756 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:37:24pm

re: #738 ggt

Classical Liberalism too!

maybe...and I fundamentally resist change (some people say I'm grumpy about it)....yeah, much has changed in a fairly short period of time

757 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:37:40pm

re: #752 Obdicut

Numerous presidents have shown that it doesn't, from Reagan's disavowal of Iran-Contra to Obama's shilly-shallying on gay marriage.

I think a consul-like system would be good, personally. Or distributed responsibilities in different areas.

this is just wanking, basically. No chance of it happening.

Then we could elect a tyrant for temporary periods when necessary (like FDR).

758 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:37:43pm

re: #749 Sergey Romanov

Still a shit sammich tho.

Yep, we're all going to have a take a bite.

Well, except the rich, because it'd be too horrible for them to be seen rubbing shoulders with the working class.

759 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:37:50pm

re: #755 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, wouldn't YOU take a Tiffany present or two to go there?
/sorta

760 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:37:54pm

re: #730 thedopefishlives

Someone mentioned upthread something about the bully pulpit, and it made me wonder: How different would things have been if President Obama had owned the debate? I mean, literally owned it; every night, run a presser and explain how the Teabaggers were totally obstructing progress in the name of petty partisan politics.

People would tune him out in short order. Presidential press conferences need to be rare in order to have punch. Otherwise, his using the same points night-after-night would bore people and the event wouldn't be covered live except on C-SPAN.

761 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:38:04pm

re: #744 Obdicut

What does upending the whole grill mean, though?

Purposely causing a constitutional crisis. Using the unitary executive, and not challenging the inevitable effort to impeach that would result. Falling on the sword, so to speak.

I would just direct the executive to continue paying the bills, per section 4 of the 14th, and veto the bill. That ought to do it.

762 b_sharp  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:38:13pm

Later gators.

763 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:39:01pm

re: #752 Obdicut

You're thinking a Politburo, comrade? Hmmm?

(One man Red Scare, you are.)
/

764 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:39:50pm

re: #759 Floral Giraffe

Well, wouldn't YOU take a Tiffany present or two to go there?
/sorta

I think it would take gold-plated latinum. Which explains the ears, doesn't it?

765 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:39:51pm

re: #741 Fozzie Bear

I think we are already fucked. We are being rolled around on the grill now, and we are just fighting over the positions furthest from the coals.

It's time to upend the whole grill. I no longer have any faith, at all, that the system as it currently exists can do anything other than continue to suck the poor and middle class dry. We are in a class war now, and the rich have won utterly.

I don't feel defeated...why do you?....don't lose track of the big picture...we're all in it together bro

766 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:39:52pm

re: #726 albusteve

what wisdom?...he's had practically nothing to do with any of it, it's way over his head...he's a PR guy and he didn't do that much good either...I really don't see BO in the picture

Newsflash. When I say the president that includes all of his staff and people working in the background. There's more to this than what you see. If you only see a "PR guy" that's because you're not looking deeper. But the president was indeed in the picture along with his staff. Do much good for what? To not get a compromise and let the Democrats fall under the control of those further to the left? He got the compromise together and that's all that counts. Game over, set, and almost a match. No amount of hysteria will change the reality of what we've seen take place.

767 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:40:05pm

re: #759 Floral Giraffe

Well, wouldn't YOU take a Tiffany present or two to go there?

Hell. It would be the foreplay.

768 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:40:09pm

re: #720 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Cynically, I expected this to be the end, said as much the other day. But I didn't expect the final result to be this one-sided. Perhaps I am a bit idealistic still, but I try to be so because I'm too young to fully give in to the cynicism just yet understand that the fight will never be won and never be lost, that the fight is permanent.

769 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:40:45pm

re: #753 Floral Giraffe

Hang in there, and do all any of us can do, which is VOTE. Well, and work to get out the vote. Really, the American people aren't totally stupid ( well, not all of them) and I do believe that we have the best, most Democratic system on the planet. So, all you can do, is try to make it work. we're there, trying too.

The bolded portion is just bullshit. I don't believe it for a second. Our system has abjectly failed to represent the people. It sucks, and it's time to force the system to purge itself by upending the apple cart, deliberately.

770 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:40:58pm

re: #761 Fozzie Bear

Purposely causing a constitutional crisis. Using the unitary executive, and not challenging the inevitable effort to impeach that would result. Falling on the sword, so to speak.

Er, and then what happens? How does that upend the grill?

I would just direct the executive to continue paying the bills, per section 4 of the 14th, and veto the bill. That ought to do it.

Again: how would that upend the grill? The most likely outcome, I think, is the rather-conservative court rules that you can't do that, the bonds you issued already are okay, but we're right back at default, with you out of office.

If they did accept it, of course, then great, that's over-- except I'm sure the enraged GOP would then block all legislation.


To me, upending the grill means changing our system of government, but what your'e suggesting comes nowhere close to it. It strikes me as what someone would do if they were president and most concerned with their own ethical standing. Not that there's anything wrong with that; I think that's a very defensible way to act.

771 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:41:35pm

re: #761 Fozzie Bear

That sounds more fun than it is. You'd be dragged through the mud by the media, then bounced out on your ass. Defeated and soon forgotten, your quest would end there.

772 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:42:07pm

re: #769 Fozzie Bear

The bolded portion is just bullshit. I don't believe it for a second. Our system has abjectly failed to represent the people. It sucks, and it's time to force the system to purge itself by upending the apple cart, deliberately.

How would anything you've suggested lead to a purge of the system?

773 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:42:49pm

re: #770 Obdicut

774 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:43:26pm

re: #769 Fozzie Bear

I do agree that we don't have the most democratic system on earth, though, mainly because we allow a lot of disenfranchisement in the name of protecting against the phantoms of voter fraud, and the amount of money we let into the system, which corrupts it heavily.

775 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:44:07pm

re: #773 Sergey Romanov

I found it really creepy when that angelic little girl sang La Marseilles at the Olympics (think it was olympics), because of the whole 'drench the fields in their tainted blood' bit.

776 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:44:39pm
777 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:45:33pm

re: #766 Gus 802

Newsflash. When I say the president that includes all of his staff and people working in the background. There's more to this than what you see. If you only see a "PR guy" that's because you're not looking deeper. But the president was indeed in the picture along with his staff. Do much good for what? To not get a compromise and let the Democrats fall under the control of those further to the left? He got the compromise together and that's all that counts. Game over, set, and almost a match. No amount of hysteria will change the reality of what we've seen take place.

you're saying the president has servants?....okay
yes, BO was in the picture, but mostly as a salesman and not real keen at that...he is in a mostly untenable position and can really do little to control events....this epic fraud was fought in the house without much regard for what the president was babbling about

778 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:45:49pm

Eh, while I'm willing to hold a picket sign and sign a petition, I draw a line at storming the Bastille.

779 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:46:00pm

re: #761 Fozzie Bear

Purposely causing a constitutional crisis. Using the unitary executive, and not challenging the inevitable effort to impeach that would result. Falling on the sword, so to speak.

I would just direct the executive to continue paying the bills, per section 4 of the 14th, and veto the bill. That ought to do it.

If Obama did that he would lose most of the independents come next year. I'm sorry but the president has to govern from the center and not from the offices of MoveOn. It's not going to happen. Americans, Including Republicans, Want Debt Compromise.

780 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:46:05pm

re: #772 Obdicut

How would anything you've suggested lead to a purge of the system?

I think Fozzie is posting out of anger. Not sure he's thinking clearly right now. He really seems on tilt.

781 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:46:26pm

re: #769 Fozzie Bear

The bolded portion is just bullshit. I don't believe it for a second. Our system has abjectly failed to represent the people. It sucks, and it's time to force the system to purge itself by upending the apple cart, deliberately.

Who does it better with what WE have?

782 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:46:44pm

re: #769 Fozzie Bear

The bolded portion is just bullshit. I don't believe it for a second. Our system has abjectly failed to represent the people. It sucks, and it's time to force the system to purge itself by upending the apple cart, deliberately.

I totally disagree (politely though) with you. What Democratic system do you consider to be better than the one the US has?

783 Decatur Deb  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:47:43pm

Been hanging around TP commenters. They're keening as much as celebrating because, like us, they don't quite see how this will play out in RL Washington.

It gets better--'Nite, all.

784 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:47:53pm

re: #774 Obdicut

I do agree that we don't have the most democratic system on earth, though, mainly because we allow a lot of disenfranchisement in the name of protecting against the phantoms of voter fraud, and the amount of money we let into the system, which corrupts it heavily.

strongly agree...way too much money and lobby influence

785 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:48:58pm

re: #782 Floral Giraffe

Anywhere that uses Condorcet voting would, I think produce a better result than what we have.

786 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:49:12pm

re: #783 Decatur Deb

Been hanging around TP commenters. They're keening as much as celebrating because, like us, they don't quite see how this will play out in RL Washington.

It gets better--'Nite, all.

Heh, there truly is balance in the universe. The TPers are just as pissed as I am.

787 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:49:37pm

governing/re-election on Capital Hill is a multi billion dollar business....that's wrong, these people may be celebrities but they are not gods

788 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:50:15pm

re: #785 Obdicut

How? In what way? I am not familiar with Condorcet voting...
Off to the Googles!

789 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:50:23pm

re: #782 Floral Giraffe

I'd take a parliamentary system. Governing party governs with a majority coalition. This Romanesque system we have of multiple vetos (President, Senate cloture, ... is a bad idea. Give the majority party the authority and hold them accountable in the election booth.

790 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:50:23pm

re: #786 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Heh, there truly is balance in the universe. The TPers are just as pissed as I am.

I really think the only solution is the education of the public. In that, I agree with Fozzie-- I just don't think angry shouty president would be able to achieve that.

I don't have an actual solution, though. Not one that can't be stymied by the insane GOP.

791 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:50:25pm

re: #782 Floral Giraffe

I totally disagree (politely though) with you. What Democratic system do you consider to be better than the one the US has?

Parliaments. Germany, Japan, Singapore, I could go on.

792 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:50:37pm

re: #786 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Heh, there truly is balance in the universe. The TPers are just as pissed as I am.

see, there you go
OOHHMMM

793 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:50:58pm

On another note, I just discovered that BevMo sells Yeni Raki.

794 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:51:02pm

re: #784 albusteve

strongly agree...way too much money and lobby influence

Well, yes and no. Lobbying is one of the only ways minority interests --social and corporate--have to be heard.

Yes, it can be another layer of corruption.

Special Interest Groups (AARP, etc) serve an important purpose and without their money (given by like minded people) -- individuals would never get their voices heard in D.C. There will ALWAYS be someone with money that lures the attention of policymakers.

795 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:51:16pm

re: #789 Olsonist

I'd take a parliamentary system. Governing party governs with a majority coalition. This Romanesque system we have of multiple vetos (President, Senate cloture, ... is a bad idea. Give the majority party the authority and hold them accountable in the election booth.

GMTA-ish.

Although there is still the possibility of - given 2010 - an Obama being no-confidenced and a Boehner effectively rubber-stamping everything that comes out of the legislature...

796 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:51:18pm

re: #779 Gus 802

If Obama did that he would lose most of the independents come next year. I'm sorry but the president has to govern from the center and not from the offices of MoveOn. It's not going to happen. Americans, Including Republicans, Want Debt Compromise.

Americans are, by and large, idiots. I don't say that with unkind intentions, and I don't mean to imply that this is a permanent condition. I just mean they have been so thoroughly duped that they have no fucking clue how they are being played, apart from maybe 20% of the population. The propaganda we are awash in is just too much for most people to resist. Most of us actually believe that Brawndo is better than water, so to speak.

For example, how many people in the US still believe that cutting taxes generates jobs? Far too many to allow for productive action.

797 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:51:47pm

re: #788 Floral Giraffe

How? In what way? I am not familiar with Condorcet voting...
Off to the Googles!

It will tend to producer moderates, since candidates who are not heavily disliked will tend to get more votes than those who are heavily favored by one bias or another. It also allows people to vote for whoever they truly want to win without worrying about their vote being wasted.

798 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:52:03pm

re: #785 Obdicut

Anywhere that uses Condorcet voting would, I think produce a better result than what we have.

as opposed to the electoral college?

799 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:52:08pm

re: #791 laZardo

But, forgive my ignorance, are Parliments really the voice and vote of the people?

800 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:52:39pm

re: #796 Fozzie Bear

Simply the percentage of the country that doesn't understand progressive taxation scares the shit out of me. It's not only basic, it's not abstract. We all undergo it every year. It's a very simple concept. How can everyone not get it?

801 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:10pm

re: #728 laZardo

Is that pronounced the way I think it's pronounced?

Well, Michele Bachmann would turn it in "tchag sameyatch", but actually both 'chs' are soft, back of the throat chets, as in "Bach" or "loch".

802 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:12pm

re: #777 albusteve

you're saying the president has servants?...okay
yes, BO was in the picture, but mostly as a salesman and not real keen at that...he is in a mostly untenable position and can really do little to control events...this epic fraud was fought in the house without much regard for what the president was babbling about

That's because the Republicans are the majority in the House. The White House and the Senate had to wait for the Republicans to come up something before they could proceed with the Senate. Everyone was showboating of course but none less than the other. Obama had been intent on cutting Federal programs for months now. Including putting Social Security on the table much to the consternation of Pelosi and Reid. Where have people been all of the years? President Obama is not a far left or even leftist president. Obama is a centrist.

803 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:15pm

re: #798 ggt

as opposed to the electoral college?

Well, you could technically elect electors through Condercet voting, but yeah, I'd get rid of the electoral college.

804 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:23pm

re: #796 Fozzie Bear

Americans have had the PRIVELEGE of not having to be politically active, and to a great extent, this has made us LAZY. Just my opinion.

805 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:32pm

re: #729 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She's an idealistic hippie (reading her Wiki) and he's a fucking whack-job. Match made in heaven.

For every shoe, God made a foot.

806 bratwurst  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:48pm

re: #799 Floral Giraffe

But, forgive my ignorance, are Parliments really the voice and vote of the people?

These Parliaments sure were!

807 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:56pm

re: #790 Obdicut

I really think the only solution is the education of the public. In that, I agree with Fozzie-- I just don't think angry shouty president would be able to achieve that.

I wish this could be put in 24 point blinking bold caps. No president would, including one looking like Obama.

The reference people often use is LBJ's so-called "bully pulpit" on the CRA of 1964. Wouldn't work in 2011, not after a generation of movement conservatism that's now expressing libertarian-lite economic polities.

808 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:53:57pm

re: #800 Obdicut

Simply the percentage of the country that doesn't understand progressive taxation scares the shit out of me. It's not only basic, it's not abstract. We all undergo it every year. It's a very simple concept. How can everyone not get it?

Well, Republicans do a pretty good job of lying to people about progressive taxation

809 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:54:24pm

re: #805 SanFranciscoZionist

For every shoe, God made a foot.

For every foot, God made an empty beer can.
Or, so I'm told...

810 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:54:27pm

re: #736 ggt

Does any of that have the "throat clearing" sound or rolling "r's".

I have trouble with both.

Throat clearing.

Hebrew doesn't actually roll r's, it swallows them down into the back of the throat.

811 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:54:37pm

re: #790 Obdicut

I really think the only solution is the education of the public. In that, I agree with Fozzie-- I just don't think angry shouty president would be able to achieve that.

I don't have an actual solution, though. Not one that can't be stymied by the insane GOP.

I'd settle for having more than 60% of eligible voters actually showing up at the polls. When American Idol gets more votes than the president, then we're in trouble as a nation.

812 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:54:38pm

re: #804 Floral Giraffe

Americans have had the PRIVELEGE of not having to be politically active, and to a great extent, this has made us LAZY. Just my opinion.

Oh, I also favor mandatory voting, rather than voluntary voting. I know it seems like an imposition, but I see it as the duty of a citizen. You can always vote for Nemo, Noman, or Nihil.

813 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:55:19pm

re: #799 Floral Giraffe

But, forgive my ignorance, are Parliments really the voice and vote of the people?

People vote for the party that they believe best represents their ideology, rather than the candidate. America already has a quasi-parliamentary system with the electoral college and the president-vice tandems.

814 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:55:46pm

re: #812 Obdicut

Yes, well jury doty is more mandatory than voting, and look where that is.
I do NOT see how you can mandate voting.
The ones who care will vote, the others won't.

815 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:56:18pm

re: #800 Obdicut

Simply the percentage of the country that doesn't understand progressive taxation scares the shit out of me. It's not only basic, it's not abstract. We all undergo it every year. It's a very simple concept. How can everyone not get it?

They are being told repeatedly by "experts" who are being paid very well not to allow them to understand.

I don't think most people are sufficiently cynical about exactly how low the corporate world is willing to go in order to maintain economic hegemony over labor.

They never read any Marx.

816 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:56:29pm

re: #794 ggt

Thing that cracked me up about the tea party dupes was how they ran around shrieking against "special interests" and "lobbyists", reading off of printouts sent to them by Dick Armey. Worst offender on the lobbyist -> politican -> lobbyist revolving door, ever.

817 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57:11pm

re: #775 Obdicut

I found it really creepy when that angelic little girl sang La Marseilles at the Olympics (think it was olympics), because of the whole 'drench the fields in their tainted blood' bit.

The lyrics are fairly disturbing, but to me it will always be the song that they belt out in Rick's bar, as the Nazis fume helplessly.

818 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57:34pm

re: #790 Obdicut

I really think the only solution is the education of the public. In that, I agree with Fozzie-- I just don't think angry shouty president would be able to achieve that.

I don't have an actual solution, though. Not one that can't be stymied by the insane GOP.

I think we have the best system of checks & balances and separation of powers that has yet to be devised.

State's Rights is a two-edged sword. A popular election would be beneficial in many ways, but I see the election by States as another layer in our Separation of Powers.

Yet there are always those working to "beat" the system. We just have to be adaptable and find a way to shore up the "system" against them. How to do it in the current situation??

Like you, Education is the only answer I have. Well, add Contraception to it.

819 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:57:41pm

re: #814 Floral Giraffe

Yes, well jury doty is more mandatory than voting, and look where that is.
I do NOT see how you can mandate voting.
The ones who care will vote, the others won't.

Well, penalties work well, but it's more a cultural thing. And I do think more people would take it seriously if they were made to vote, perversely.

820 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:58:05pm

re: #791 laZardo

Parliaments. Germany, Japan, Singapore, I could go on.

None of these countries has the diversity of population or geography.

821 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 8:59:50pm

re: #819 Obdicut

It's interesting to serve on jury duty. I wanted it to be a "trial of my peers" I really did. I wanted to be the juror that I would want at my trial. I tried to be fair, but found that the trail information, overwhelmed the defendants position, almost before the defendants story was told.

822 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:00:03pm

re: #820 ggt

None of these countries has the diversity of population or geography.

That's where federalism comes in. I'd call it "evolved decentralization" as it were to distinguish it from Ye Olde States' Rights.

823 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:00:12pm

re: #811 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'd settle for having more than 60% of eligible voters actually showing up at the polls. When American Idol gets more votes than the president, then we're in trouble as a nation.

It would be an equal comparison if anyone could vote for the Prez by texting on their phone (as many times as they wanted) without any voting requirements.

824 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:00:26pm

re: #819 Obdicut

I can imagine any mandatory voting proposal would get huge pushback from the people who are doing well under the current system.

825 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:00:56pm

re: #824 jaunte

And those, who for whatever reason, don't want to be bothered.

826 Right Handed Neutrino  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:01:44pm

Hey, remember that lovely comment about how the picture of the youth camp had "Middle Eastern" or "mixed" faces?

Not anymore you don't. It's been removed from Pamela Geller's post without any comment, like it never existed. Down the memory hole it goes.

827 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:01:45pm

Heh, it looks like the deal includes the really stupid "Let's pretend we didn't give obama this power and make him veto shit" proposal.

Because of the pending Tuesday deadline, Obama would have immediate authority to raise the debt ceiling by $400 billion, which will last through September, according to the White House document. For the other $500 billion of debt ceiling extension in the first stage, Congress can vote on resolutions of disapproval that, if passed, the president can then veto, the White House said.

I still think the GOP is wrong-headed on that one.

828 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:01:46pm

re: #817 SanFranciscoZionist

The lyrics are fairly disturbing, but to me it will always be the song that they belt out in Rick's bar, as the Nazis fume helplessly.

I really want to hear a French Black Metal cover.

829 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:01:48pm

thank god for football, hot rods and Pabst....I'm good to go

830 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:01:58pm

re: #804 Floral Giraffe

Americans have had the PRIVELEGE of not having to be politically active, and to a great extent, this has made us LAZY. Just my opinion.

Yeah, I think the idea of "hiring people to do that for us" has gone too far.

I don't even want to serve on the board of my Condo. Should contribute at least once, but I'd prefer to support those who do serve. Been on a small school board once, it was more than enough for one life-time.

When people come to my door asking for signatures for a change, I ask them if they are running for the board. 10/10 times they have said NO. I don't support their bitching.

831 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:02:22pm

re: #825 Floral Giraffe

There would be griping, like 'having to go to the DMV' griping, but the real enemies of that plan would be those that keep trying to reduce voter registration currently.

832 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:02:32pm

re: #829 albusteve

Pabst is an utterly crap beer.

833 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:02:49pm

re: #829 albusteve

thank god for football, hot rods and Pabst...I'm good to go

Sometimes, one has to just sit back and enjoy the simple things in life.

834 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:02:57pm

re: #829 albusteve

thank god for football, hot rods and Pabst...I'm good to go

Dude.... football. All is right with the world....... I was worried for awhile there.

835 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:03:20pm

re: #832 Obdicut

Pabst is an utterly crap beer.

then you get it

836 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:03:54pm

re: #810 SanFranciscoZionist

Throat clearing.

Hebrew doesn't actually roll r's, it swallows them down into the back of the throat.

Yeah, I don't get that. My nail tech (Vietnamese) says American's swallow their words.

I've got the throat clearing sound down, but that "r" thing is still a challenge. I HATE pronouncing words like a "Michelle Bachman". Nothing makes a person prove their ignorance more.

837 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:04:45pm

re: #822 laZardo

That's where federalism comes in. I'd call it "evolved decentralization" as it were to distinguish it from Ye Olde States' Rights.

That's a much better phrase. Even "decentralization" will do. "States rights" as a term and concept has been ruined by Confederate bigots, in both their previous and current incarnations.

838 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:04:51pm

re: #832 Obdicut

Pabst is an utterly crap beer.

Blame the hipsters.

839 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:05:15pm

re: #812 Obdicut

Oh, I also favor mandatory voting, rather than voluntary voting. I know it seems like an imposition, but I see it as the duty of a citizen. You can always vote for Nemo, Noman, or Nihil.

Mandatory voting, that would produce a whole new mega-industry of vote auctioning-buying or whatever.

It's bad enough as it is. I'd rather people who actually care enough to vote, vote.

840 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:05:25pm

re: #838 laZardo

Blame the hipsters.

How many hipsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

841 Olsonist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:06:07pm

It's an obscure number. You probably wouldn't know it.

842 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:06:11pm

re: #834 Mr Pancakes

Dude... football. All is right with the world... I was worried for awhile there.

I said from the very first day, there will be a full season, altho a lot of people did....way too much money to toss away, 400m a week I read...just like the default, a deal was gonna be made...money talks

843 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:06:38pm

re: #832 Obdicut

Pabst is an utterly crap beer.

Papst used to sell a beer called "Pabst Bock" around Christmas time......it was barely distinguishable from their regular can ...... that was some damn good beer. Haven't seen it for awhile.

844 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:07:00pm

re: #823 Mr Pancakes

It would be an equal comparison if anyone could vote for the Prez by texting on their phone (as many times as they wanted) without any voting requirements.

Like it's done in Chicago?

:)

845 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:07:03pm

re: #804 Floral Giraffe

Americans have had the PRIVELEGE of not having to be politically active, and to a great extent, this has made us LAZY. Just my opinion.

I think you're right, though I would say some Americans, anyway. Others haven't had the luxury.

846 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:07:39pm

re: #836 ggt

Yeah, I don't get that. My nail tech (Vietnamese) says American's swallow their words.

I've got the throat clearing sound down, but that "r" thing is still a challenge. I HATE pronouncing words like a "Michelle Bachman". Nothing makes a person prove their ignorance more.

Bachmann isn't merely ignorant. She's malignant. Nobody who sucks so deeply off the government teat should ever besmirch programs like welfare. so frequently and loudly.

I think people let her off far too easy when they call her crazy. She's not crazy, per se, she's a hypocritical, evil, c-word.

847 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:07:47pm

re: #829 albusteve

thank god for football, hot rods and Pabst...I'm good to go

Keep the populace fed and entertained . . .

848 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:07:56pm

re: #812 Obdicut

Oh, I also favor mandatory voting, rather than voluntary voting. I know it seems like an imposition, but I see it as the duty of a citizen. You can always vote for Nemo, Noman, or Nihil.

Mandatory voting? Really?

Assuming you're not joking, how would that be enforced?

849 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:08:01pm

re: #836 ggt

What I found a bit weird is that in English foreign names are never modified to conform to Eng. pronunciation if they're in Latin script. I mean, even if they're Vietnamese etc. In Russian or other languages we usually trascribe the words phonetically, that saves the trouble. But in English how does one pronounce e.g. Mladic - Mladich (as it should be pronounced), or Mladik? Would one pronounce Mattogno as is, or as it should be (Mattonyo)? Etc., etc.

850 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:08:47pm

re: #838 laZardo

Blame the hipsters.

I'll blame Hitler.

[Link: hipsterhitler.com...]

851 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:08:49pm

re: #839 ggt

Mandatory voting, that would produce a whole new mega-industry of vote auctioning-buying or whatever.

It's bad enough as it is. I'd rather people who actually care enough to vote, vote.

...you know what, now I really mean it when I say blame the hipsters.

852 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:08:57pm

re: #840 Olsonist

How many hipsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Hips have hands?

853 jvic  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:09:02pm

re: #821 Floral Giraffe

It's interesting to serve on jury duty. I wanted it to be a "trial of my peers" I really did. I wanted to be the juror that I would want at my trial. I tried to be fair, but found that the trail information, overwhelmed the defendants position, almost before the defendants story was told.

This is what happens when legislators blindly vote to give law enforcement anything it wants "the tools it needs".

I wonder if a citizen's "right to a lawyer" should include, in a means-tested sense, the right to some significant fraction of the resources that the government expends on a case.

854 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:09:47pm

re: #848 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Mandatory voting? Really?

Assuming you're not joking, how would that be enforced?

As in other countries with m.v.?

855 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:09:51pm

re: #848 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Mandatory voting? Really?

Assuming you're not joking, how would that be enforced?

vote or die...simple
like the Mob

856 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:09:52pm

re: #849 Sergey Romanov

What I found a bit weird is that in English foreign names are never modified to conform to Eng. pronunciation if they're in Latin script. I mean, even if they're Vietnamese etc. In Russian or other languages we usually trascribe the words phonetically, that saves the trouble. But in English how does one pronounce e.g. Mladic - Mladich (as it should be pronounced), or Mladik? Would one pronounce Mattogno as is, or as it should be (Mattonyo)? Etc., etc.

Since the spelling of ENGLISH words in English often leaves you guessing, we just leave foreign words and names as an exercise to the speaker--and an opportunity to make fun of them if they get it wrong.

857 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:10:01pm

re: #829 albusteve

thank god for football, hot rods and Pabst...I'm good to go

I lose zero sleep over all of this.

858 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:10:23pm

re: #846 Fozzie Bear

Bachmann isn't merely ignorant. She's malignant. Nobody who sucks so deeply off the government teat should ever besmirch programs like welfare. so frequently and loudly.

I think people let her off far too easy when they call her crazy. She's not crazy, per se, she's a hypocritical, evil, c-word.

Look at her eyes --she is brainwashed -deluded and going to implode if her faulty world-view is ever shattered.

859 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:10:32pm

re: #850 Sergey Romanov

LOL CLASSIC

Emos predate hipsters, of course.

860 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:10:38pm

re: #855 albusteve

vote or die...simple
like the Mob

Die and vote. Like in Chicago.

//

861 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:10:51pm

re: #849 Sergey Romanov

What I found a bit weird is that in English foreign names are never modified to conform to Eng. pronunciation if they're in Latin script. I mean, even if they're Vietnamese etc. In Russian or other languages we usually trascribe the words phonetically, that saves the trouble. But in English how does one pronounce e.g. Mladic - Mladich (as it should be pronounced), or Mladik? Would one pronounce Mattogno as is, or as it should be (Mattonyo)? Etc., etc.

Yeah, that's a tough one. One just has to kind of have some kind of general idea about pronunciation in other languages.

It avoids things like Katie Couric's name being pronounced "Katie Courich". (Although, I've seen it written that way.) And we don't pronounce it the proper French way, anyway, so... :/

862 Obdicut  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:11:22pm

re: #848 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Mandatory voting? Really?

Assuming you're not joking, how would that be enforced?

The same way mandatory most things are: fines if you don't. While obviously making it very easy for people to vote.

Australia has it. It's really not that insane an idea.

863 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:11:23pm

re: #860 Gus 802

Die and vote. Like in Chicago.

//

and often!
good one

864 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:11:24pm

re: #848 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Australia does it; $15 fine if you choose to sit out.

865 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:11:26pm

re: #853 jvic

This is what happens when legislators blindly vote to give law enforcement anything it wants "the tools it needs".

I wonder if a citizen's "right to a lawyer" should include, in a means-tested sense, the right to some significant fraction of the resources that the government expends on a case.

They are entitled to all the justice they can afford. That's real freedom, man.

866 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:12:25pm

re: #862 Obdicut

The same way mandatory most things are: fines if you don't. While obviously making it very easy for people to vote.

Australia has it. It's really not that insane an idea.

QFEmphasis

867 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:12:25pm

re: #815 Fozzie Bear

Spoken life a socialist.


Goodnight, all.

868 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:12:32pm

re: #856 SanFranciscoZionist

Since the spelling of ENGLISH words in English often leaves you guessing, we just leave foreign words and names as an exercise to the speaker--and an opportunity to make fun of them if they get it wrong.

Phone, knob, gnat is always fun for my Mexican friends. Did I mention Salmon?

869 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:13:09pm

re: #862 Obdicut

The same way mandatory most things are: fines if you don't. While obviously making it very easy for people to vote.

Australia has it. It's really not that insane an idea.

I'll drool onto a bib and cop an exemption 'when appropriate'....gotta work it baby

870 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:13:10pm

re: #867 Dark_Falcon

Spoken like a socialist.

Goodnight, all.

Geeze, PIMF

871 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:13:56pm

re: #864 jaunte

Australia does it; $15 fine if you choose to sit out.

Just what this country needs. More fines. I have an idea! If you don't vote you have to pay a $750 fee to the IRS.

//

872 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:14:22pm

re: #867 Dark_Falcon

Spoken life a socialist.

Goodnight, all.

Just don't ever get accused of a crime while having no financial resources, if you know what's good for you. I have seen what really good lawyers can do, and they sure as shit don't do it for free.

873 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:14:57pm

re: #849 Sergey Romanov

What I found a bit weird is that in English foreign names are never modified to conform to Eng. pronunciation if they're in Latin script. I mean, even if they're Vietnamese etc. In Russian or other languages we usually trascribe the words phonetically, that saves the trouble. But in English how does one pronounce e.g. Mladic - Mladich (as it should be pronounced), or Mladik? Would one pronounce Mattogno as is, or as it should be (Mattonyo)? Etc., etc.

I"m sure there is a rule for it. Don't ask me.

Most of us, excepting the severely dyslexic and Michelle Bachman, absorb the correct pronounciation from life. TV, whatever.

It doesn't help that families from different parts of the country pronounce their names differently even if it is spelled the same way.

There is one Hispanic name (can't remember now, of course) I never can get right. Syed is another one, Cy-Ed or Sy-eed, Say-eed. I've heard so many versions from the owner of the name's mouths, I give-up.

Welcome to America --always a learning experience.

874 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:14:57pm

re: #871 Gus 802

Just what this country needs. More fines. I have an idea! If you don't vote you have to pay a $750 fee to the IRS.

//

Don't think of it as a fine....... think of it as a .... um...... tax.

875 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:15:07pm

re: #871 Gus 802

Just what this country needs. More fines. I have an idea! If you don't vote you have to pay a $750 fee to the IRS.

//

forced behavior...I'd rather go down in flames

876 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:15:29pm

re: #815 Fozzie Bear

They are being told repeatedly by "experts" who are being paid very well not to allow them to understand.

I don't think most people are sufficiently cynical about exactly how low the corporate world is willing to go in order to maintain economic hegemony over labor.

They never read any Marx.

That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. If people want to understand there are means and ways for people to understand. The only reason people may not understand is because most people really don't care and would rather watch American Idol or Wheel of Fortune. I myself have never been influenced by these magical super secret experts.

877 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:15:30pm

re: #871 Gus 802

It would be legal to write in Pabst Blue Ribbon.

878 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:16:01pm

Pass the bong man!

//

879 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:16:47pm

re: #863 albusteve

and often!
good one

Early and often . . .

880 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:17:04pm

re: #878 Gus 802

Pass the bong man!

//

*toke* *toke* No, the Ryan Plan still doesn't make sense.

//

881 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:17:20pm

re: #878 Gus 802

Pass the bong man!

//

Fozzie is a bogart

882 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:17:26pm

re: #878 Gus 802

Pass the bong man!

//

883 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:17:32pm

re: #880 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*toke* *toke* No, the Ryan Plan still doesn't make sense.

//

Keep smoking

884 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:17:36pm

re: #864 jaunte

Australia does it; $15 fine if you choose to sit out.

$15 ????

That wouldn't motivate a whole lot of people. The cost to send the invoice isn't worth $15.

885 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:17:57pm

re: #832 Obdicut

Pabst is an utterly crap beer.

Now if they were to bring back Andeker instead. Gah, that was a great beer...

886 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:18:01pm

re: #846 Fozzie Bear

Bachmann isn't merely ignorant. She's malignant. Nobody who sucks so deeply off the government teat should ever besmirch programs like welfare. so frequently and loudly.

I think people let her off far too easy when they call her crazy. She's not crazy, per se, she's a hypocritical, evil, c-word.

She's another corrupt socon grifter, with zero ethics.

Just like all her hypocritical railing against welfare and government tells everything we need to know about her, so does her loud promotion of conservative Christian-supremacist morality.

887 jaunte  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:18:02pm

re: #884 ggt

Must be habit for them.

888 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:18:26pm

re: #874 Mr Pancakes

Don't think of it as a fine... think of it as a ... um... tax FEE.


sounds more benign!

889 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:18:56pm

I'll do it then....
Country Joe

890 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:19:16pm

re: #885 wlewisiii

Now if they were to bring back Andeker instead. Gah, that was a great beer...

Agreed.... Pabst gets a bad rap sometimes.

891 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:19:32pm

re: #884 ggt

$15 ???

That wouldn't motivate a whole lot of people. The cost to send the invoice isn't worth $15.

See. That's what I was driving at. This is America. We don't do low fines. It would have to be something really high. Maybe we should see what Hugo Chavez does in this matter.

//

892 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:19:40pm

re: #864 jaunte

Australia does it; $15 fine if you choose to sit out.

Yeah, Australia does a lot of things the US doesn't.

Plus we have a history of poll tax and literacy tests (vote suppression) here. People would balk at the idea.

893 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:19:41pm

re: #872 Fozzie Bear

Just don't ever get accused of a crime while having no financial resources, if you know what's good for you. I have seen what really good lawyers can do, and they sure as shit don't do it for free.

Welcome to American justice. Have a nice day.

894 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:19:47pm

re: #884 ggt

$15 ???

That wouldn't motivate a whole lot of people. The cost to send the invoice isn't worth $15.

psychological...smack em with guilt

895 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:20:02pm

re: #876 Gus 802

That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. If people want to understand there are means and ways for people to understand. The only reason people may not understand is because most people really don't care and would rather watch American Idol or Wheel of Fortune. I myself have never been influenced by these magical super secret experts.

With the internet, libraries etc. There is no excuse for not understanding.

The information is there --in audio if you are not a learn by reading kinda person. You can probably find lessons on Youtube from the Federal Government.

896 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:20:22pm

re: #876 Gus 802

That sounds like a conspiracy theory to me. If people want to understand there are means and ways for people to understand. The only reason people may not understand is because most people really don't care and would rather watch American Idol or Wheel of Fortune. I myself have never been influenced by these magical super secret experts.

It's not exactly a conspiracy, in the sense that it's actual secretive collusion. It's just that big financial players buy the best facts they can, and broadcast them as loudly as they can afford. The result is a crapload of people who believe in magical economic theories relying more on faith than reason.

For example, the widely-held idea that lower taxes always leads to lower unemployment. It's bullshit, but it doesn't matter, because it's truthy enough to fool a lot of voters into voting against their own interests.

897 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:20:28pm

re: #880 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*toke* *toke* No, the Ryan Plan still doesn't make sense.

//

'ere 'ave summore.

898 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:20:42pm

re: #883 Mr Pancakes

Keep smoking

899 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:21:27pm

re: #873 ggt

I"m sure there is a rule for it. Don't ask me.

Most of us, excepting the severely dyslexic and Michelle Bachman, absorb the correct pronounciation from life. TV, whatever.

It doesn't help that families from different parts of the country pronounce their names differently even if it is spelled the same way.

There is one Hispanic name (can't remember now, of course) I never can get right. Syed is another one, Cy-Ed or Sy-eed, Say-eed. I've heard so many versions from the owner of the name's mouths, I give-up.

Welcome to America --always a learning experience.

Actually the Poles have the same problem. They also don't use the phonetic transcriptions, so if they use some Latin-script name, and then incline it in a sentence, some chimera appears, like "Johna McCaina"

900 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:22:15pm

re: #881 albusteve

Fozzie is a bogart

Riddikulus, bogarts are a myth.

901 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:22:39pm

re: #862 Obdicut

The same way mandatory most things are: fines if you don't. While obviously making it very easy for people to vote.

Australia has it. It's really not that insane an idea.

I don't think it's an insane idea, I think it's an untenable idea.

902 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:22:57pm

re: #900 ggt

Riddikulus, bogarts are a myth.

Somewhere, Humphrey is crying!

903 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:23:31pm

re: #894 albusteve

psychological...smack em with guilt

oh yeah, that would work

/not

904 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:23:40pm

re: #898 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

[Video]

Great cover song....

Brad Nowell RIP

905 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:24:43pm

re: #896 Fozzie Bear

It's not exactly a conspiracy, in the sense that it's actual secretive collusion. It's just that big financial players buy the best facts they can, and broadcast them as loudly as they can afford. The result is a crapload of people who believe in magical economic theories relying more on faith than reason.

For example, the widely-held idea that lower taxes always leads to lower unemployment. It's bullshit, but it doesn't matter, because it's truthy enough to fool a lot of voters into voting against their own interests.

A crapload of people will always believe in bullshit. That's a fact of life. A crapload of people believe in homeopathy, ghosts, goblins, that vaccines cause autism, and so on. But they're still not the majority. While a crapload of people will take some magic pill that been diluted in 40,000 gallons of water thinking it will cure cancer the majority of the people will seek the help of a real doctor. And if we're going to say Fox News is doing this than you have to figure that only 2 million people tops watch Fox News. Which leaves a rather large majority that's not even influenced by Fox News.

Yesterday I did a quick test. Regarding atheism. So, I asked my sister, "have you ever heard of Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens?" Her answer was no. Most people never even heard of them. The overwhelming majority never heard of them. Most people never even heard of Michelle Bachmann. I guarantee you that if you go out tomorrow and ask "the man on the street" these question they'll have no answer. My point? It's a different world out there than one we perceive not only at LGF but in the world at large. Most people don't listen to these financial experts.

906 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:24:55pm

re: #902 sattv4u2

Somewhere, Humphrey is crying!

Humphrey is a Bogart. Not a bogart.

C the difference?

907 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:25:56pm

re: #906 ggt

Humphrey is a Bogart. Not a bogart.

C the difference?

Si, see?

908 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:26:19pm

And since we're harping on Americans being ignorant or something. The majority of Americans have supported cutting the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

909 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:26:53pm

re: #903 ggt

oh yeah, that would work

/not

right, fear of mutilation and death is the only way people will vote if it cuts into their prime time TV

910 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:27:37pm

re: #905 Gus 802

My point? It's a different world out there than one we perceive not only at LGF but in the world at large. Most people don't listen to these financial experts.

But that's just it - if "most people" are blank slates with no prior knowledge of an important issue, they're much easier to fool with a well-timed, well-funded propaganda blast (e.g. ads, slogans, etc right around election time)

911 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:28:03pm

re: #870 Dark_Falcon

re: #867 Dark_Falcon

Spoken like a socialist.

Goodnight, all.

Geeze, PIMF

Communist muslim race mixing multiculti tranzi socialist lightbulb losers! ///

lol

912 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:28:24pm

Do Republicans Hate Republics?

"These groups have repeatedly rejected deals that appear (to people like me) to have given them everything they have wanted, and more. The sticking point? At least without a balanced budget amendment, future Congresses might undo deals made in the present. But that is the essense of republican government -- trusting future generations to govern themselves as we today govern ourselves. Seeking restrictions on future generations, at least on issues of spending and generating revenue, is to reject a central premise of republicanism -- that experiment at each moment of a people governing itself as best it can."
913 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:28:28pm

re: #892 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, Australia does a lot of things the US doesn't.

Plus we have a history of poll tax and literacy tests (vote suppression) here. People would balk at the idea.

We got the secret ballot (actually called Australian Ballot here) [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

"Therefore, the first President of the United States elected completely under the Australian ballot was president Grover Cleveland in 1892."

914 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:28:56pm

re: #908 Gus 802

And since we're harping on Americans being ignorant or something. The majority of Americans have supported cutting the Bush tax cuts for the rich.

I think a large part of the problem is that people seem to want ONE answer that will work for all time. We have to change, follow cycles and adapt. Something that worked before may or may not work under present circumstances.

Economies are dynamic.

Most economic principles are so mind-boggling simple they even hurt my brain. Trusting this or that pundit, politician or economist is scary.

915 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:29:48pm

re: #909 albusteve

right, fear of mutilation and death is the only way people will vote if it cuts into their prime time TV

guilt get's a knee-jerk "fuck you" response in the world I know.

Except if it's giving money for charity.

916 albusteve  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:31:32pm

Dylan has pulled all his copyrighted stuff off you tube...
asshole

917 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:31:58pm

re: #916 albusteve

Dylan has pulled all his copyrighted stuff off you tube...
asshole

Get off my lawn!!!!!!

918 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:32:15pm

Just got caught up on the last season of Doctor Who and once again, Rory is fucking awesome.

919 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:33:50pm

re: #840 Olsonist

How many hipsters does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

So?????

How many does it take?

920 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:35:13pm

re: #918 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just got caught up on the last season of Doctor Who and once again, Rory is fucking awesome.

I've been hearing good things about the new show.

Might have to check-it-out.

Now that my kid has his driver's license, he won't be home hogging the TV and he'll have my car, so I won't have much else to do.

921 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:36:03pm

re: #910 publicityStunted

But that's just it - if "most people" are blank slates with no prior knowledge of an important issue, they're much easier to fool with a well-timed, well-funded propaganda blast (e.g. ads, slogans, etc right around election time)

But what's so different now than it was say 30 years ago. Remember looking for newspaper articles in a microfiche? Looking through miles and mile of microfilm for that one article. Many that were already months old. Or then browsing through the library directory using the Dewey Decimal system to locate a book and actually read through paragraphs of information before we found the exact information we were looking for. And people did this. I did that many times during my days as an environmentalist. Now it takes second to find what used to take hours or sometimes days and weeks. I used a piece of junk cheapo typewriter to write my congressmen. Those people are blank slates because they choose to be blank states. There will always be those blank state and there's not a single thing we can do about it. If people want to get motivated they'll get motivated on their own choosing. Until then, this is what we'll have.

922 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:36:51pm

re: #920 ggt

I've been hearing good things about the new show.

Might have to check-it-out.

Now that my kid has his driver's license, he won't be home hogging the TV and he'll have my car, so I won't have much else to do.

Speaking from experience you'd probably be better off with him hogging the TV.

923 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:37:31pm

Rory: I have a message and a question. A message from the Doctor, and a question from me: *Where* *is* *my* *wife*?
[the Cybermen stare at him, saying nothing]
Rory: Oh, don't give me those blank looks. The Twelfth Cyber Legion monitors this entire quadrant. You hear everything. So you tell me what I need to know. You tell me now, and I'll be on my way.
Cyber Leader: What is the Doctor's message?
[outside, the fleet begins exploding, startling the Cybermen]
Rory: Would you like me to repeat the question?

924 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:38:26pm

re: #922 Mr Pancakes

Speaking from experience you'd probably be better off with him hogging the TV.

Have you seen what teenage boys watch nowadays!?!?!

925 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:38:40pm

re: #921 Gus 802

But what's so different now than it was say 30 years ago.

Citizens United.

926 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:39:28pm

re: #921 Gus 802

Those people are blank slates because they choose to be blank states.

just in case anyone missed it

927 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:40:27pm

re: #924 sattv4u2

Have you seen what teenage boys watch nowadays!?!?!

As opposed to driving my car? It could be Debbie Does Dallas.... but then I don't have any teenaged boys anymore.

928 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:40:55pm

re: #924 sattv4u2

Have you seen what teenage boys watch nowadays!?!?!

929 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:41:41pm

re: #927 Mr Pancakes

As opposed to driving my car? It could be Debbie Does Dallas... but then I don't have any teenaged boys anymore.

Video Games.

930 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:41:52pm

re: #925 publicityStunted

Citizens United.

Perhaps. But the truth is that unions can also take advantage of the Citizens United decision. No commenting on the unions here mind you. But that's the truth. So can any corporation that one would consider liberal or leaning towards the Democratic Party. There are many liberal corporations out there. Citizens United can be applied in either direction. No?

931 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:42:46pm

re: #929 ggt

Video Games.

Are awesome. I'm considering indulging in some more a little later, just haven't decided which one yet.

932 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:42:46pm

re: #930 Gus 802

Generally speaking, corporations tend to have a lot more money (and thus leverage) than the unions.

933 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:42:48pm

re: #927 Mr Pancakes

As opposed to driving my car? It could be Debbie Does Dallas... but then I don't have any teenaged boys anymore.

I do

Thats why I never sold our "junker"!
/

934 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:43:48pm

re: #929 ggt

Video Games.

Got my daughter a Wii........ she hardly ever uses it except for Netflix. I can see what she watches on my computer though.... evil grin.

935 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:43:53pm

re: #932 laZardo

Generally speaking, corporations tend to have a lot more money (and thus leverage) than the unions.

OTOH ,,, unions have a lot more "voters", hence "leverage" of another type

936 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:44:00pm

"I do NOT need you to sprout off YOUR scripture/doctrine to me...I was blessed from the day I was born and I do NOT need u 2 tell me that! I am sick unto death of hearing it! Like a broken record over and over...convince yourself, I do NOT need it! God and I are just fine!.....I am human and as such I WILL rant...a little something called FREE WILL...try it sometime and your eyes just might REALLY open!....Later!"

From a friend on fb. gave permission to share it.

937 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:45:18pm

re: #929 ggt

Video Games.

And Pawn Stars.

938 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:45:25pm

re: #936 ggt

"I do NOT need you to sprout off YOUR scripture/doctrine to me...I was blessed from the day I was born and I do NOT need u 2 tell me that! I am sick unto death of hearing it! Like a broken record over and over...convince yourself, I do NOT need it! God and I are just fine!...I am human and as such I WILL rant...a little something called FREE WILL...try it sometime and your eyes just might REALLY open!...Later!"

From a friend on fb. gave permission to share it.

Saw a bumper sticker awhile back that I nodded to:

"I have no problem with God, it's his fan club I can't stand."

939 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:45:59pm

re: #938 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Saw a bumper sticker awhile back that I nodded to:

"I have no problem with God, it's his fan club I can't stand."

I used to have one that said
"Born right the 1st time"

940 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:46:03pm

re: #932 laZardo

Generally speaking, corporations tend to have a lot more money (and thus leverage) than the unions.

I don't know. Unions have been a rather formidable financial resource for the Democratic Party. Traditionally it's exceeded most interest groups. Right now Obama has more cash at hand than the GOP. He's set a record. And this is post Citizens United. Here are they heavy hitters from Opensecrets since 1989:

ActBlue $52,443,515
American Fedn of State, County & Municipal Employees $45,237,853
AT&T Inc $41,197,490
National Assn of Realtors $39,707,910
National Education Assn $36,310,095
Service Employees International Union $35,873,039
American Assn for Justice $33,980,771
Intl Brotherhood of Electrical Workers $33,475,254
Laborers Union $31,331,267
American Federation of Teachers $31,021,128

941 sattv4u2  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:47:00pm

BBL

I hate when work interferes with LGF time!

942 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:48:02pm

re: #940 Gus 802

Mobilization in the wake of Citizens United, perhaps. Maybe they didn't realize they had it in them.

Corporations could still match that easy though, e.g. AT&T Inc.

943 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:48:07pm

re: #932 laZardo

Generally speaking, corporations tend to have a lot more money (and thus leverage) than the unions.

And I would also add that that's always been true. Money talks. America is indeed a corporate nation. Wall Street was the biggest contributor to Obama as well as Hillary during the 2008 election cycle. Goldman Sachs being one of the largest.

944 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:48:31pm

re: #881 albusteve

Fozzie is a bogart

I always puff, puff, pass, like a gentleman.

...

Ok, maybe sometimes I camp a little, but it's only because I forgot what was in my hand.

945 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:48:33pm

Checked one of my usual messageboards, just to get an idea of where the Tea Partiers there stand on the "deal" agreed upon tonight. And, no surprise, they've begun gnashing their teeth and calling for it to be voted down. I feel better now.

946 Interesting Times  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:48:38pm

re: #930 Gus 802

Perhaps. But the truth is that unions can also take advantage of the Citizens United decision. No commenting on the unions here mind you. But that's the truth. So can any corporation that one would consider liberal or leaning towards the Democratic Party. There are many liberal corporations out there. Citizens United can be applied in either direction. No?

Koch Brothers revenue is $100 billion a year. Unions are being gutted all over the place. I don't see any liberal/progressive/middle-class-representing group that has 1/100th the power and $$$ of the corporatists who want to return America to the Gilded Age.

947 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:50:32pm
You know that moment we all look forward to at a wedding -- when the bride comes down the aisle and, for the first time, we get to see that beautiful white dress? How magical that moment always is.

Well, it's even more magical when there are two white dresses.

I experienced this for the first time when my niece, Tracy, married the love of her life, a woman also named Tracey (only hers has an "e"). At that moment, as I looked at their radiant faces, I remembered seeing Tracy, age 8, singing along to the record of Free to Be...You and Me. And I couldn't help but think, at last, Tracy is truly free.

Marlo Thomas

948 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:50:33pm

re: #941 sattv4u2

BBL

I hate when work interferes with LGF time!

Till later, comrade!

949 prairiefire  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:51:14pm

re: #944 Fozzie Bear

I always puff, puff, pass, like a gentleman.

...

Ok, maybe sometimes I camp a little, but it's only because I forgot what was in my hand.

Toker etiquette, charming, quaint and illicit all at the same time.

950 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:51:31pm

And now with video;

951 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:52:21pm

re: #949 prairiefire

Toker etiquette, charming, quaint and illicit all at the same time.

The biggest faux pax is subsituting some oregano and walking away with the original.

down-right rude.

952 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:53:11pm

re: #946 publicityStunted

Koch Brothers revenue is $100 billion a year. Unions are being gutted all over the place. I don't see any liberal/progressive/middle-class-representing group that has 1/100th the power and $$$ of the corporatists who want to return America to the Gilded Age.

Well then the only other alternative I can think of is that they have to find alternative. Evolve or die. I'm thinking of evolution here. Other than combating Citizens United in congress but that won't happen with this GOP congress. Yes, there is Koch but there's also Soros too no? Soros and Heinz? All is not lost as far as I can tell.

953 Lidane  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:54:08pm

re: #945 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Checked one of my usual messageboards, just to get an idea of where the Tea Partiers there stand on the "deal" agreed upon tonight. And, no surprise, they've begun gnashing their teeth and calling for it to be voted down. I feel better now.

If they hate it, that's a good sign.

Still, spending cuts without revenue increases is a bad idea. And I'm not particularly happy with what I've read so far. But I'll take bad ideas over a default, though.

954 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:55:10pm

re: #950 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And now with video;

[Video]

I'll see your bet and raise you a River Song:

955 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:56:42pm

re: #947 ggt

Now to get rid of DOMA.

956 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:57:45pm

re: #953 Lidane

If they hate it, that's a good sign.

Still, spending cuts without revenue increases is a bad idea. And I'm not particularly happy with what I've read so far. But I'll take bad ideas over a default, though.

At this point, the only consolation I can take is that the Tea Party will be as unhappy as I am. Who knows, perhaps they'll vote down the deal and willingly slit their own throats for all to see. Yeah, we'll default, but it'll mean the end of the GOP as we know it.

957 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:57:49pm

re: #952 Gus 802

You have to admit the playing field (unions vs. corporations) is more than a little bit uneven. Citizen's United cuts one way shallow, and the other to the bone.

Not only that, but really, should unions have the ability to spend infinite money to influence elections, leaving aside what corporations can do? I don't think anyone should be allowed to produce as much propaganda as they want supporting to influence elections without at least having to report publicly where the money came from and where it is spent.

It corrupts the process.

958 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 9:58:27pm

re: #952 Gus 802

Well then the only other alternative I can think of is that they have to find alternative. Evolve or die. I'm thinking of evolution here. Other than combating Citizens United in congress but that won't happen with this GOP congress. Yes, there is Koch but there's also Soros too no? Soros and Heinz? All is not lost as far as I can tell.

Oh. And add Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Warren Buffet.

959 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:00:19pm

re: #957 Fozzie Bear

You have to admit the playing field (unions vs. corporations) is more than a little bit uneven. Citizen's United cuts one way shallow, and the other to the bone.

Not only that, but really, should unions have the ability to spend infinite money to influence elections, leaving aside what corporations can do? I don't think anyone should be allowed to produce as much propaganda as they want supporting to influence elections without at least having to report publicly where the money came from and where it is spent.

It corrupts the process.

Maybe. But this is the rules that they're given. My only point is that the Democrats can also use Citizens United to their advantage. Until it's reversed through congress we'll have to live with it. I frankly think it should be "reversed".

960 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:01:10pm

re: #954 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'll see your bet and raise you a River Song:

[Video]

Spoilers

961 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:01:15pm

re: #958 Gus 802

Oh. And add Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Warren Buffet.

Relying on the magnanimous largess of individuals with heaps of formerly corporate cash isn't exactly a tenable proposition in the long haul.

C'mon, man, I feel like you are trying to make lemonade out of piss. (Forget lemons.)

962 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:01:45pm

re: #958 Gus 802

Oh. And add Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Warren Buffet.

I get a little pissed when the big money people are given public praise for giving large amounts to different causes THEY support. I would like to see a few of them write a check to the federal government--especially Warren Buffet who came out and said he could afford to pay more taxes.

WTF Warren, you don't have to get an invoice, go ahead and write the check. Start a fad.

963 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:01:55pm

re: #960 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Spoilers

A thousand apologies.

964 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:02:10pm

re: #959 Gus 802

Maybe. But this is the rules that they're given. My only point is that the Democrats can also use Citizens United to their advantage. Until it's reversed through congress we'll have to live with it. I frankly think it should be "reversed".

Fair enough. If you agree its bad precedent, there's no point preaching to the choir.

965 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:03:19pm

re: #963 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

A thousand apologies.

LOL, I was quoting River

966 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:03:21pm

re: #961 Fozzie Bear

Relying on the magnanimous largess of individuals with heaps of formerly corporate cash isn't exactly a tenable proposition in the long haul.

C'mon, man, I feel like you are trying to make lemonade out of piss. (Forget lemons.)

Come on what? Obama is looking really good for 2012. The Democrats still rule the Senate. DADT was reversed. We got a healthcare reform bill. DOMA is months from dying. Americans believe more and more that gays should be allowed to marry. Prop 8 is close to death in California. Jerry Brown is governor of California and Cuomo in New York. It's not the end of the world you know. Far from it.

967 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:04:20pm

re: #966 Gus 802

Come on what? Obama is looking really good for 2012. The Democrats still rule the Senate. DADT was reversed. We got a healthcare reform bill. DOMA is months from dying. Americans believe more and more that gays should be allowed to marry. Prop 8 is close to death in California. Jerry Brown is governor of California and Cuomo in New York. It's not the end of the world you know. Far from it.

Hope that doesn't sound too strong. The "Come on what?" part. :)

968 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:04:38pm

re: #965 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

LOL, I was quoting River

...

EXTERMINATE!

969 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:05:02pm

by Nov 2012, no one will remember the debt debacle of 2011. What they will remember is Planned Parenthood, DOMA and events yet to happen.

970 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:05:38pm

re: #966 Gus 802

Jerry "California Uber Alles" Brown? WE'RE DOOMED!

/

971 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:05:55pm

re: #967 Gus 802

Hope that doesn't sound too strong. The "Come on what?" part. :)

Meh, we're on the same side. I get you don't like it either, and are trying to be hopeful. I won't crap on that hope any more tonight.

972 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:06:55pm

re: #961 Fozzie Bear

Relying on the magnanimous largess of individuals with heaps of formerly corporate cash isn't exactly a tenable proposition in the long haul.

C'mon, man, I feel like you are trying to make lemonade out of piss. (Forget lemons.)

...to which I'd have to add, we're also relying on the people with all this cash not be liars. Or to present selfish ends as in the public interest.

973 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:07:09pm
974 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:09:12pm

re: #968 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

...

EXTERMINATE!

DELETE! DELETE!

975 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:10:23pm

re: #962 ggt

I get a little pissed when the big money people are given public praise for giving large amounts to different causes THEY support. I would like to see a few of them write a check to the federal government--especially Warren Buffet who came out and said he could afford to pay more taxes.

WTF Warren, you don't have to get an invoice, go ahead and write the check. Start a fad.

Warren can say all he wants, he knows he's never going to be taxed he way he should or in any way it would hurt. He could give money to the government like he does to private charity --but wait, then it wouldn't be a tax deduction . . .

976 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:12:36pm

re: #973 ggt

Humungus Fungus Amungus?

Imagine the foot cheese that would cause.

//

977 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:12:53pm

re: #970 laZardo

Jerry "California Uber Alles" Brown? WE'RE DOOMED!

/

They later did an updated version. "We've Got A Bigger Problem Now"

978 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:13:28pm

re: #898 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

guhh I still can't stand Sublime


smokin' music should be worthy of the leaf

979 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:14:05pm

re: #974 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

DELETE! DELETE!

"It's like Steven Hawking meets the speaking clock."

980 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:15:10pm

re: #958 Gus 802

Oh. And add Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Warren Buffet.

I trust Bill Gates (and Woz) a fuck of a lot more than I trust Steve Jobs, fuck Steve Jobs

981 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:15:59pm

re: #971 Fozzie Bear

Meh, we're on the same side. I get you don't like it either, and are trying to be hopeful. I won't crap on that hope any more tonight.

That's cool. You know. I can't begin to tell you how much being on the losing side used to depress me. I mean seriously depressed like when Reagan won. Or even when Republican Governor Kean won in New Jersey. Now? Governor Kean looks like a reasonable Republican to me. But I really would get seriously bummed out when my team lost. And as a lifelong Democrat -- short of two years -- that was quite often. That might be why I became an independent. It hurts less.

982 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:16:22pm

re: #980 WindUpBird

I trust Bill Gates (and Woz) a fuck of a lot more than I trust Steve Jobs, fuck Steve Jobs

Do you hate Steve Jobs?

//

983 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:19:19pm

re: #978 WindUpBird

Rickenbacher bass. Nice!

984 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:19:43pm

re: #980 WindUpBird

I trust Bill Gates (and Woz) a fuck of a lot more than I trust Steve Jobs, fuck Steve Jobs

i want to engage in hard fluffing with you for that

im sorry

985 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:20:15pm

re: #979 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

"It's like Steven Hawking meets the speaking clock."

Cyber Leader: You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?
Dalek Sec: We would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek! You are superior in only one respect.
Cyber Leader: What is that?
Dalek Sec: You are better at dying.

986 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:20:57pm

DJI futures are up +183.

987 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:22:48pm

re: #985 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cyber Leader: You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?
Dalek Sec: We would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek! You are superior in only one respect.
Cyber Leader: What is that?
Dalek Sec: You are better at dying.

Cyber Leader: Daleks be warned, you have declared war upon the Cybermen.
Dalek Sec: This is not war, this is pest control.

988 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:23:54pm

re: #987 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Cyber Leader: Daleks be warned, you have declared war upon the Cybermen.
Dalek Sec: This is not war, this is pest control.

Cyberman: Our technologies are compatible, though your design is less elegant.
Dalek Thay: Daleks have no concept of elegance!
Cyberman: This is obvious.

989 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:25:53pm

American Dream Movement?

Somehow, I missed this

990 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:26:10pm

re: #988 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cyberman: Our technologies are compatible, though your design is less elegant.
Dalek Thay: Daleks have no concept of elegance!
Cyberman: This is obvious.

Rose: (about the Genesis Ark) They said one touch from a time-traveller will wake it up.
The Doctor: Technology using the one thing Daleks can’t do. Touch. See, you’re inside your casing. Not feeling anything. Ever. From birth to death locked inside a cold metal cage. Completely alone. That explains your voice. No wonder you scream.

991 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:29:07pm

re: #990 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The Doctor: Technology using the one thing Daleks can’t do. Touch. See, you’re inside your casing. Not feeling anything. Ever. From birth to death locked inside a cold metal cage. Completely alone. That explains your voice. No wonder you scream. Climb stairs.

ftfy ;p

992 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:29:24pm

Looking at Bloomberg...

White House officials said the ultimate shape of the deal left them well-positioned to protect Obama’s priorities before the committee. While there is no automatic tax increase in the enforcement mechanism, half the automatic spending cuts would target defense programs popular among Republicans, and Democratic priorities such as Medicare and Social Security benefits and programs for the poor would be protected. The automatic spending cuts would be delayed to coincide with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts in 2013, giving the president greater leverage to press to include tax revenue in the committee’s recommendations.

“It is certainly possible that Obama is playing a long game that will be effective over time, that despite the lumps he is taking now he would be seen in retrospect as taking a reasonably steady and balanced course, keeping his head while people on all sides were losing theirs.” Galston said.

Long game folks. Don't underestimate Obama. I really think he knows what he's doing here.

993 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:31:20pm

re: #991 laZardo

ftfy ;p

They can fly.

994 austin_blue  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:32:12pm

I'm for the rack. Night Lizards. Sweet dreams!

995 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:34:23pm

I don't get math past 2 + 2 at all!

996 laZardo  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:40:34pm

Heading to bed before #1000. Nighty!

997 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:43:22pm

Watch out for the Gout.

It's been seen lurking in the woods behind your house. Some blame the POTUS, others think it is the water. Others say it's a myth created by the sekrit big pharma cabal.

998 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:45:01pm

Bile Beans may help with Gout. I say it's fascist propaganda.

999 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:45:38pm

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

1000 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:47:20pm

re: #998 ggt

Bile Beans may help with Gout. I say it's fascist propaganda.

You need an avatar ggt.

1001 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:50:09pm

re: #1000 Gus 802

You need an avatar ggt.

Maybe this one?

Image: tx0606-fig-0001-1-full.gif

1002 blueraven  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:50:46pm

re: #992 Gus 802

Looking at Bloomberg...

Long game folks. Don't underestimate Obama. I really think he knows what he's doing here.

Just go look at the far right blogs, Listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, et al...They are pissed and think a tax hike could happen and not enough real cuts are made. Then look at the far left blogs like FDL. Talking about a primary for Obama. All in all its probably a pretty centrist deal.

We need to wait and see the details before everyone freaks out. A primary challenge would insure a republican victory and is insane. They want the HCA repealed? A BBA (under a republican Senate that would happen) Now Harry Reid sets the terms of any BBA, which would die in the Senate.
Medicare destroyed as we know it rather than tweaked and strengthened? Primary Obama and these will pass.

The tea party would be even more out of control.

1003 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:54:02pm

re: #999 Gus 802

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remembered-
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.

1004 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:55:19pm

re: #1000 Gus 802

You need an avatar ggt.

I have the BEST avatar.

I see no reason to change.

1005 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:56:50pm

re: #1004 ggt

I have the BEST avatar.

I see no reason to change.

LIES
:P

1006 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:57:48pm

re: #1005 Varek Raith

LIES
:P

MAGNETS!

1007 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:58:14pm

re: #1006 ggt

MAGNETS!

How do they work?

1008 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:58:31pm
1009 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:58:44pm

re: #1004 ggt

No, mine's the best!
Love the word mine.
And well, my Zaraffa!
And the friends who helped me with the pic.
I'm a tech -tard!

1010 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:59:01pm

How do you delete bookmarks you don't want any more on mac?

double clicking to pull up a menu doesn't seem to work.

1011 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:59:19pm

re: #1008 Varek Raith

Image: How-do-they-work.gif

MAGIC!

1012 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:59:47pm

re: #1009 Floral Giraffe

No, mine's the best!
Love the word mine.
And well, my Zaraffa!
And the friends who helped me with the pic.
I'm a tech -tard!

LOL, I write MINE on things in the house I don't want anyone else to mess with. Even the dogs know the word. When they want what I am eating, I say MINE and they look down and leave the room.

1013 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 10:59:52pm

re: #1002 blueraven

Talking about a primary for Obama. All in all its probably a pretty centrist deal.

Well, yeah, of course it is. He ran as and has governed as a center-right politician. I don't get it when lefties feel "betrayed" by him any more than I get it when Faux squeals about his supposed "socialism". As a card-carrying socialist ( [Link: www.dsausa.org...] ), I'd be ecstatic if a real socialist showed up in the White House but it has never been and is pretty unlikely within my expected lifetime ;)

Hah, Let them squeal. I get to pick up my new toy tomorrow afternoon and that trumps them.

Good night all!

1014 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:00:11pm

re: #1009 Floral Giraffe

No, mine's the best!
Love the word mine.
And well, my Zaraffa!
And the friends who helped me with the pic.
I'm a tech -tard!

Image: tumblr_lardz22HSR1qc8aq9o1_400.jpg

1015 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:00:53pm

re: #1010 ggt

How do you delete bookmarks you don't want any more on mac?

double clicking to pull up a menu doesn't seem to work.

right click and choose delete?

1016 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:02:06pm

re: #1015 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

right click and choose delete?

on mac it is either single or double click. (I think)

1017 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:02:19pm

re: #1014 Varek Raith

Image: tumblr_lardz22HSR1qc8aq9o1_400.jpg

That was cool, didn't expect it at all.

1018 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:03:04pm

re: #1000 Gus 802

You need an avatar ggt.

Is that like saying "You need a hobby"?

1019 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:03:28pm

re: #1016 ggt

on mac it is either single or double click. (I think)

What kind of stone-age devil machine doesn't allow you to right click?

1020 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:03:51pm

re: #1002 blueraven

Just go look at the far right blogs, Listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, et al...They are pissed and think a tax hike could happen and not enough real cuts are made. Then look at the far left blogs like FDL. Talking about a primary for Obama. All in all its probably a pretty centrist deal.

We need to wait and see the details before everyone freaks out. A primary challenge would insure a republican victory and is insane. They want the HCA repealed? A BBA (under a republican Senate that would happen) Now Harry Reid sets the terms of any BBA, which would die in the Senate.
Medicare destroyed as we know it rather than tweaked and strengthened? Primary Obama and these will pass.

The tea party would be even more out of control.

The idea is just absurd. The people pushing it can't even come up with one name, let alone a name that will win the Dem nomination.

But we can expect the primary-obama types to really ramp up their "Obam is a Republican/Vote for [insert name of feckless loser here]!!!" wares in certain communities, especially Black ones. Those New Progressive Alliance dorks already tried, talk about a big shipment of fail [Link: newprogs.org...]

1021 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:04:53pm

re: #1002 blueraven

Just go look at the far right blogs, Listen to Hannity, Limbaugh, et al...They are pissed and think a tax hike could happen and not enough real cuts are made. Then look at the far left blogs like FDL. Talking about a primary for Obama. All in all its probably a pretty centrist deal.

We need to wait and see the details before everyone freaks out. A primary challenge would insure a republican victory and is insane. They want the HCA repealed? A BBA (under a republican Senate that would happen) Now Harry Reid sets the terms of any BBA, which would die in the Senate.
Medicare destroyed as we know it rather than tweaked and strengthened? Primary Obama and these will pass.

The tea party would be even more out of control.

Abandoning Obama now would be a grievous mistake. All that would be accomplished would be diluting the field and setting things up for a Republican victory as you suggest. Granted, I seriously doubt the crazies will get far but even Romney is a "Values Voter™". But if it's Democratic Party principles you're after then any idea of primarying him would mean full abandonment. It's a lose-lose proposition. A lot of people might be pissed off but going the Firebagger route will only lead to failure. The only choice is Team Obama if you want to keep any semblance of normalcy in this country and away from the Stepford Wives of American politics.

1022 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:04:58pm

re: #1019 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What kind of stone-age devil machine doesn't allow you to right click?

MacRage!

1023 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:05:00pm

I finally watched that movie, Very Bad Things.

Whoa.

1024 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:05:27pm

re: #1018 ggt

Is that like saying "You need a hobby"?

No. Not at all. Just thinkin'.

1025 blueraven  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:06:42pm

re: #1020 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The idea is just absurd. The people pushing it can't even come up with one name, let alone a name that will win the Dem nomination.

But we can expect the primary-obama types to really ramp up their "Obam is a Republican/Vote for [insert name of feckless loser here]!!!" wares in certain communities, especially Black ones. Those New Progressive Alliance dorks already tried, talk about a big shipment of fail [Link: newprogs.org...]

I am sure the Koch brothers would be glad to buy those guys a couple more buses.

1026 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:07:14pm

If anyone wants to primary Obama they should just admit to themselves that they want a Republican in the White House.

1027 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:07:40pm

re: #1023 eclectic infidel

I finally watched that movie, Very Bad Things.

Whoa.

You left a dead prostitute alone in the desert?

She's not alone...

1028 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:08:30pm

re: #1019 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What kind of stone-age devil machine doesn't allow you to right click?

If you're on a laptop with a trackpad, you can set the option to click with two fingers to get a double-click function.

Or, use control-click keyboard/trackpad combination.

1029 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:10:02pm

re: #1014 Varek Raith

Image: tumblr_lardz22HSR1qc8aq9o1_400.jpg

Favorited, that!
Head bonk in lust, to you!

1030 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:10:10pm

re: #1025 blueraven

I am sure the Koch brothers would be glad to buy those guys a couple more buses.

Lol fools and their money...

1031 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:10:10pm

re: #1028 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If you're on a laptop with a trackpad, you can set the option to click with two fingers to get a double-click function.

Or, use control-click keyboard/trackpad combination.

but how do I delete a bookmark I don't want anymore?

1032 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:11:14pm

re: #1031 ggt

but how do I delete a bookmark I don't want anymore?

With extreme prejudice?
*silly mode off, now*

1033 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:12:08pm

re: #1031 ggt

but how do I delete a bookmark I don't want anymore?

In Firefox, go Bookmarks / Show all Bookmarks

It will bring up your Library window. You can highlight the one you want and delete it with one of the above methods. Safari is similar.

1034 Targetpractice  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:12:53pm

re: #1026 Gus 802

If anyone wants to primary Obama they should just admit to themselves that they want a Republican in the White House.

What they should admit to themselves is they're no better than the Tea Partiers.

1035 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:13:52pm

re: #1026 Gus 802

If anyone wants to primary Obama they should just admit to themselves that they want a Republican in the White House.

Firebagger!
/

1036 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:14:45pm

re: #1026 Gus 802

If anyone wants to primary Obama they should just admit to themselves that they want a Republican in the White House.

I've read people so unhinged, they will tell you straight out that a Republican in the WH will hasten the decline of everything in the US and create the conditions for The Revolution™ or whatever, so it's just as well.

[Somebody send me better shills, please. These ones suck.]

1037 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:15:17pm

The DNC wouldn't even give a primary challenger a cent. Or hardly a cent. Obama, as I already mentioned, is already killing the GOP in money. Hillary would be the only potential candidate to primary Obama. But she still lost in 2008 and would likely lose in 2012. And I seriously doubt that Hillary would go up to bat for such a thing after being Secretary of State for so lone. She's tarnish her history and image. She's done well so far. Very well in fact. She's not going to oppose her boss after all of these years just to satisfy a few angry readers of Firedoglake. Not going to happen. Which would leave the field open to crazies like Dennis Kucinish or Mike Gravel again. And those candidates are the Ron Pauls of the Democratic Party. It's not going to happen.

1038 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:15:56pm

re: #1033 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

In Firefox, go Bookmarks / Show all Bookmarks

It will bring up your Library window. You can highlight the one you want and delete it with one of the above methods. Safari is similar.

muchas gracias!

1039 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:17:51pm

re: #1036 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Methinks they don't quite comprehend what they are asking for.

1040 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:18:11pm

re: #1036 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I've read people so unhinged, they will tell you straight out that a Republican in the WH will hasten the decline of everything in the US and create the conditions for The Revolution™ or whatever, so it's just as well.

[Somebody send me better shills, please. These ones suck.]

Wow. Right. A Republican in the White House will bring about a revolution. Just like it did when George W. Bush was president. Right. Oops. Didn't happen. He even had Darth Vader as VP and it didn't lead to a revolution.

1041 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:18:29pm

re: #1039 Fozzie Bear

Methinks they don't quite comprehend what they are asking for.

THE PERFECT PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE THAT DOES NOT EXIST!

1042 Kragar  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:19:57pm

re: #1041 Varek Raith

THE PERFECT PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE THAT DOES NOT EXIST!

Generic Republican would beat him anyways...

1043 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:20:55pm

re: #1042 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Generic Republican would beat him anyways...

Yeah, but he sure is boring.

1044 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:21:45pm

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Accuracy in terminology is not hair-splitting, especially in an age when "sexism" is now laughing at Sarah Palin's hairstyle, and "racism" is disagreement with Herman Cain's candidacy. Like the blanket use of "fundamentalist", hasty application of inaccurate terminology can also lead to microscopes turned on the wrong communities.

Well Put.

1045 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:23:20pm

re: #1042 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Generic Republican would beat him anyways...

It probably would. What I mean is that if you had a field with Obama, Kucinich and Palin then Palin would actually become competitive.

1046 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:24:31pm

re: #1041 Varek Raith

THE PERFECT PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE THAT DOES NOT EXIST!

I'd just like one imperfect and human actually progressive candidate. Instead, we get Obama.

Ugh.

Oh well, i'll vote for him again. I don't have to like like it, but it's better than Jesus McRapturepants.

1047 Gus  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:24:43pm

Anyway, it won't happen. Obama will not be primaried.

1048 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:24:53pm

re: #1039 Fozzie Bear

Methinks they don't quite comprehend what they are asking for.

Yeah, I only know one personally (online), this butthurt Hillary voter who's now become some kind of laptop revolutionary. Classic Baggerdog Lake, newly-minted Chris Hedges devotee. /eyeroll

I'm like, so you paypal'd your $5 to Barack Obama once, and now because he didn't kick high enough when he cakewalked, it's now time for a revolution.

Lol ho hum.

1049 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:26:53pm

re: #1044 ggt

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well Put.

Hey thanks!

1050 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:28:56pm

re: #1045 Gus 802

It probably would. What I mean is that if you had a field with Obama, Kucinich and Palin then Palin would actually become competitive.

I've been saying this for a year now. Obama's sharp tack to the right makes him vulnerable on his left flank. And that's not a good thing.

1051 blueraven  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:29:13pm

Overnight is up...time for me to hit it.

Goodnight y'all.

1052 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:30:59pm

re: #1036 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Brother in Law was here for the past week. He had the National Review magazine on Michelle Bachmann, and Sarah Palin's book, and I DIDN"T THROW HIM OR HIS BOOKS OUT OF THE HOUSE.
Hooray!

1053 Varek Raith  Sun, Jul 31, 2011 11:31:52pm

re: #1052 Floral Giraffe

Brother in Law was here for the past week. He had the National Review magazine on Michelle Bachmann, and Sarah Palin's book, and I DIDN"T THROW HIM OR HIS BOOKS OUT OF THE HOUSE.
Hooray!

Trollin' ya
/

1054 JRCMYP  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 8:45:47am

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

If it cut the terrorists back, I think my dad would accept what had happened. My mother would take it very badly. I myself would be happy to die if it had a good chance to cut the Islamists back.

I'm sure you've been roundly criticized for what you've said here. But let me just add my two cents. You come off as a spoiled American brat with very romantic views of war and right versus wrong. Of course, you may be a 40 year old truck driver named Larry and not a 19 year old boy from a small town. Shame on you, regardless.

1055 William of Orange  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 9:12:39am

I'm very much for free speech....

....but now I'm prepaired to draw a line somewhere. Some people should be protected against themselves and shut out from keyboards when hte blatter out the most horrific language on the internet. I'm Dutch, from the same country of Geert Wilders. But I know even he cannot stand by these words written on THAT blog....

1056 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 10:10:00am
1057 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 10:12:12am

re: #1056 Rocktheboat

Congrats on writing a multiply-self-contradictory paragraph, there.

It's important to find out Brevik's motivations but we definitely shouldn't look into whether he was motivated by Geller.

1058 ErikJ76  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 10:27:07am

I'm guessing LGF will get a couple of extra views from Norway since NRK (The Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation) has a piece on their front page about Geller's editing. (Translated version).

1059 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 10:32:33am

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

That was a screw-up and Israel should have apologized for the error. But even with that, the lives saved by making it clear to the terrorists that Israel is not to be messed with were worth the cost.

Because it had worked so well. When did that happen, 1973 was it? Everything has been loving spoonful since then? Yeah, backed them down real well.

1060 Rocktheboat  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 11:10:42am

re: #1057 Obdicut

You mean ''multiple.'' Try short words next time!

1061 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 11:46:06am

re: #1060 Rocktheboat

That's enough. Get off my website.

1062 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Aug 1, 2011 1:36:29pm

re: #531 Obdicut

I didn't propose a thought experiment.

Mkay. I think I explained well enough why I perceived it to have the form of a logical argument.

Since you seem determined to pretend I've said things I haven't, and refuse to acknowledge that you've misinterpreted what I've said despite being shown where you have, I'm going to stop talking to you about this.

I honestly don't think you have shown me any essential misinterpretation on my part. But suit yourself. We agree to disagree.

And yes, I do consider you to have accused me of nasty shit, and I'm not likely to forget that anytime soon.

Mkay. Might want to explain that part to me some time, then. I like to be aware of the nasty shit I allegedly have accused others of.


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