The Fascist Ideology of ‘Fjordman’

The extreme ideas that inspired Anders Behring Breivik
Opinion • Views: 45,299

The identity of Fjordman has been revealed. He revealed it himself, realising that media would sooner or later figure out who he is. Personally, I don’t find his identity all that interesting, but it is a good thing that we now know. Just yesterday, someone else was “exposed” as being Fjordman on wikipedia, and in journalist circles in Norway, there’s been several rumours.

Some of these rumours have been outright laughable, one of them pointing at a fellow who has battled conspiracy thinking for years. Others have been more plausible, at least pointing at people who share a considerable number of ideological ideas with Fjordman, people who have bought into the same kind of conspiracy thinking as him. The fact that Fjordman’s identity is now known will stop that rumour mill, and that’s all for the better.

What’s interesting about Fjordman, however, isn’t his identity, but his ideas; and I would recommend that journalists writing about them also take the time to check out some of his articles. Almost 40 of Fjordman’s essays have been included, in full, in the Norwegian terrorist Anders B. Breivik’s manifesto, and reading those essays will not merely give you an insight into Fjordman’s thinking, they will give an insight into the thinking who inspired the terrorist atrocities.

Gates of Vienna - one of the central blogs in the “counterjihad” universe - now writes:

Fjordman is the best of us. He is not just a brilliant scholar and a fine writer, but also the most decent, gentle, and humane person I have ever met. He is a man of utmost integrity, and it shines through in his dealings with others as well as in the millions of words he has written.

Ole Jørgen Anfindsen, who included an essay of Fjordman in his book “Selvmordsparadigmet”, seems to also think quite highly of Fjordman, but in the Norwegian radio program Dagsnytt 18 earlier today, he did note that the rhetorics of Fjordman is “too hard”. I’ve got a newsflash for Anfindsen: The main problem with Fjordman is not his rhetorics, but his ideas. And I will point to a few examples.

Let’s start with Fjordman’s essay “Native Revolt: A European declaration of independence”, one of the many included in the terrorist’s manifesto, which - incidentally - carries almost same name, but with “2083” added to it. Fjordman wrote this essay in 2007. It’s long - like most of his essays. It’s angry, too, like most of them. It’s an essay worth reading, if you want to get a glimpse of “the utmost integrity” of Fjordman. Let’s start with Fjordman’s opinion of the European Union:

Why is this pan-European EU dictatorship still functioning? Because seeing is believing. Most Europeans still don’t know that EU leaders are using their money without their consent to merge Europe with the Arab world because their media don’t tell them this.

Now, that’s actually a very good summary of Fjordman’s conspiracy thinking. The European Union, one of the largest democratic experiments in world history, is a dictatorship. Its leaders are allegedly using our money to “merge Europe with the Arab world”. And the media is in on the conspiracy, too, since it doesn’t tell us anything about it. But, to be sure, the conspiracy theory goes deeper than just that. On the news blog document.no (which is very critical of current immigration policies, and of Islam, but which does not belong in the “counterjihadist” category), both Fjordman and the terrorist Anders B. Breivik commented on the same post in November 2009, a post on the minaret ban in Switzerland, and on reactions to this. Below, you will find a translation into English. If you’re looking for the original Norwegian, you will find it in another recent post at my blog.

First, the terrorist:

This is only the beginning of a long-lasting campaign of psychological warfare against the Swiss [written with capital S in Norwegian, too, which is a break with grammatical rules suggesting a somewhat unhealthy reverence with national states]. The worst thing of it all, is that this is very effective, as we saw with Austria a few years back. The Swiss people will cave for the demonisation, like the Austrians and the Serbs before them. The fact that European and American mainstream media, 95% of the NGOs and 80% of the political parties are all controlled by cultural marxists is possibly the foremost reason for us having to suffer multiculturalism (cultural marxism) and islamisation for at least another 20-70 years.

[…]

20 years at the earliest is my bet (70 years at the max). So, change will come, it’s guaranteed, we will just have to be patient.

(Do note that the idea of “Cultural Marxism”, too, is lifted from Fjordman).

Then Fjordman:

My prediction is that the European Union will apart from the inside within 20 years, and that there is a full-scale civil war in at least one European country before this happens. Sooner or later common people will discover that the European Union and European leaders have already decided - behind the backs of the population - that a continued Muslim colonisation of our continent is to be given free reins. This is the largest betrayal throughout world history, and it is infathomable that our socalled critical press, including the largest newspaper VG, does not write a single word about it. The fact is that Western leaders are conducting demographic and judicial warfare against the white majority population in Western countries in order to break them down, all to the benefit of an authoritarian, post-democratic world order with themselves at the top.

Now, please note that this is not merely an anti-Islamic ideology. The ideology is anti-Western. Fjordman really believes that there’s a grand conspiracy which includes leading politicians and the media. Here he is 100% in agreement with Breivik, or - to be precise - Breivik is in 100% agreement with him. Now, of course Fjordman claims - both as Fjordman and as Peder Jensen - that he has never encouraged violence. Well, frankly, I don’t think you have to. If you’re saying that Jens Stoltenberg, for instance, is actually a worse traitor than Quisling, if you’re saying that Europe is being occupied and colonised, if you’re saying that politicians, journalists and academics - across the political scale - are willingly playing a part in this… if you’re saying all of this, politically motivated violence does not seem like an absurd idea; the step onto violence is not a very far one.

That said, in his “declaration”, Fjordman poses a number of demands. He does this, of course, on the behalf of “we”, “the European peoples”, a rather megalomaniac concept for an anonymous blogger from a small town in Western Norway to throw around. The demands include the dismantling of the European Union, trials against people having taken part in the alleged conspiracy and betrayal, a process of “de-Eurabification”, a halt in all Muslim immigration to Europe (regardless of cause), etc. And if these demands are not met, Fjordman writes - in 2007 - then “we”, “the European peoples”, must conclude:

If these demands are not fully implemented, if the European Union isn’t dismantled, Multiculturalism isn’t rejected and Muslim immigration isn’t stopped, we, the peoples of Europe, are left with no other choice than to conclude that our authorities have abandoned us, and that the taxes they collect are therefore unjust and that the laws that are passed without our consent are illegitimate. We will stop paying taxes and take the appropriate measures to protect our own security and ensure our national survival.

Now, of course, Fjordman never tells us what these “appropriate measures” actually are. But to pretend that the problem with this text is “rhetorics”, well, that’s rather poorly played by mr. Anfindsen, and this should be rather clear.

And it doesn’t stop there. Fjordman has written a large number of essays, covering a large number of topics. In one of them, “The Coming Crash”, he attacks the United States. It’s an interesting example of his writings, because of the overt racism in it. Once again, the problem is ideas, not merely rhetorics.

If the Soviet Union was the Evil Empire then the USA is the Diversity Empire, committed to spreading Multiculturalism and genetic Communism around the world, especially to white majority countries.

[…]

When I see how Nidal Hasan was treated by the US military I don’t think I want these people involved in my affairs. They would probably say that native Euros are Nazis who oppress the poor Muslims. Then they would bomb us and say it is for our own good, just like they did to the Serbs. The United States will not survive this century. It will be split into several countries according to ethnic, racial and perhaps even ideological lines. There is no such thing as a universal nation. People want to live with their own kind. The only ones who are not allowed to do so are whites, and they are starting to get tired of this double standard.

[…]

Self-preservation is a natural instinct for all living things down to plants and bacteria. It’s about time that whites reclaim the same right without apology. I am increasingly convinced that the developments we are witnessing are deliberate. The lies we are being served are virtually identical in every Western country. I’ve had some discussions about this with my friend Ohmyrus who thinks this is about a structural failure in our political system. I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but I also believe there is a planned long-term goal of breaking down all white majority nations to create a new global oligarchy. Anti-white ideologies are now taught in every Western university and were arguably elevated to national ideology in the USA with the election of Obama.

His friend Ohmyrus is, by the way, a Chinese blogger arguing the ills of democracy. Now, Fjordman says that he does not necessarily agree with that, but in his book “Defeating Eurabia” he approvingly quotes a British blogger who notes that “this is an existential war”, and “if this means that we need to suspend parliamentary democracy for the duration — so be it”.

Let me point to another essay by Fjordman, another one which Breivik decided to include in his cut-and-paste-manifesto. The essay is called “The Failure of Western Feminism”. In it Fjordman notes:

The truth is that any nation is always protected from external aggression by the men. The women can play a supporting role in this, but never more than that. For all the talk about ‘girl power’ and ‘women kicking ass’ which you see on movies these days, if the men of your ‘tribe’ are too weak or demoralised to protect you, you will be enslaved and crushed by the men from other ‘tribes’ before you can say ‘Vagina Monologues’. Which means that if you break down men’s masculinity, their willingness and ability to defend themselves and their families, you destroy the country. That’s exactly what Western women have done for the last forty years.

For several years, I have said that Fjordman is indeed a fascist. Now, this is a word which is often thrown about much too easily. I’ve heard enough people speak of the Norwegian PRogress Party (Fremskrittspartiet) as fascist, suggesting that they do not know much about the Progress Party, and that they know next to nothing about fascism. When I call Fjordman as fascist, however, I’m using a rather common scholarly definition, that of fascist scholar Roger Griffin:

[F]ascism is best defined as a revolutionary form of nationalism, one that sets out to be a political, social and ethical revolution, welding the ‘people’ into a dynamic national community under new elites infused with heroic values. The core myth that inspires this project is that only a populist, trans-class movement of purifying, cathartic national rebirth (palingenesis) can stem the tide of decadence.

Now, Fjordman is obviously a nationalist, and - lo! behold! - he does call for a native revolt. In his works, he describes a political revolution, which he sees as necessary, to ensure a national rebirth of sorts. He does speak of decadence as one of the root-causes of the European decay which plays a central role in his world-view, while of course focussing on Marxism - a rather wide category in his world - too. He does call for massive “ethical” and “social” changes too, amongst other things to ensure that (White) women have more babies. He seems willing to “suspend” parliamentary democracy. And on top of it all, he is obsessed with the idea of historical heroes, for instance Charles Martel and John III Sobieski. In his book, Fjordman writes:

The EU is systematically surrendering the continent to our worst enemies.

[…]

When an organization ignores the interests of its own people yet implements the interests of that people’s enemies, that organization has become an actively hostile entity run by a corrupt class of abject traitors. This is what the EU is today.

[…]

Those inhabiting the European continent are first and foremost Germans, Poles, Italians, Hungarians, Portuguese etc. ‘Europe’ has existed mainly to protect the continent against Islamic expansionism. Charles Martel created Europe in the modern sense when he defeated the Arab invasion in the seventh century, aided by people such as Pelayo, who started the Reconquista in the Iberian Peninsula, John Hunyadi and Lazar of Serbia who fought against the Turks in the Balkans and John III Sobieski, King of Poland, who beat the Ottomans during the 1683 Battle of Vienna. The EU is actively working to undo everything Charles Martel and these men achieved. This makes it the anti-European Union.

In short, Fjordman neatly fits the definition of “fascism”. He is a neo-fascist ideologist. To boot, he does not seem to have any problems - whatsoever - in cooperating with political groups whose roots are decidedly and glaringly obviously found in the post-WWII movement of European neo-fascism. And you know what they say: If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Notably, too, every single one of the ideas of Fjordman mentioned above are in one way or the other repeated by the terrorist Anders B. Breivik. Every single one. In spite of that, some people try to make rather daft excuses. One of them is Andrew Bostom, who writes:

An hysterical, morally cretinous press and blogosphere — Norwegian, other European, and American — […]continues to persist that he was Brevik’s ‘main inspiration,’ a charge akin to accusing the Beatles of ‘inspiring’ Charles Manson, or Jody Foster ‘inspiring’ John Hinckley.

News flash for Andrew G. Bostom: The Beatles did not peddle an ideology of hatred, and the lyrics of Helter Skelter do not really spell the recipe of “race war”, like they did for Charles Manson. Fjordman, on the other hand, did not write lyrics for a melody. For 6 years he has written a large number of blog posts peddling a world-view where leading politicians are guilty of treason and Europe is being occupied. And that makes sort of… well… a difference, don’t you think?

I do wonder, though, Mr. Bostom, would you make similar excuses for an Islamist blogger who had inspired an Islamist terrorist? You wouldn’t? Quelle surprise.

Jump to bottom

835 comments
1 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 1:56:37pm

Thank you, that's great research, and helpful for countering the apologists.

2 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:08:55pm
95% of the NGOs and 80% of the political parties

There he goes again with his weird pseudo-accurate percentage estimates.

3 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:13:03pm

A fellow Norwegian blogger (he's a socialist! boo!), points out another Fjordman text which is worth noting:

[Link: indregard.no...]

It's in Norwegian, but the Fjordman quote isn't. I'll add it here anyway:

This also implies that for the first time in centuries we are the underdogs. There are many historical examples, from the Persian invasions of ancient times to the Muslim invasions later, where Europeans have performed at our best when we have been the underdogs. Perhaps we can do the same once the Multicultural madness retreats. We need to make sure, though, that those who have championed the toxic ideas of Multiculturalism and mass immigration of alien tribes disappear with it. If that happens, we can give our descendants a fresh start and lay the foundations for a new Renaissance, where European civilization can flourish once more.

4 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:13:22pm
20 years at the earliest is my bet (70 years at the max).

Hm. Slightly more optimistic back than his later 2083 estimate. Trying to get the chronology of ideas right is hellish, I won't even try. But 2083 is slightly more pessimistic than the 200 years Fjordman aka Norwegian kafir spoke of in 2003 on LGF:

Yes, we will probably bleed because of too many muslim immigrants and our proximity to the Middle East, but we won't be destroyed. I think that goes for the West as a whole: We will bleed, but win. 200 years from now, Islam is but a vague memory of something bad in the past.

5 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:14:43pm

re: #3 oslogin

A fellow Norwegian blogger (he's a socialist! boo!), points out another Fjordman text which is worth noting:

[Link: indregard.no...]

It's in Norwegian, but the Fjordman quote isn't. I'll add it here anyway:

This also implies that for the first time in centuries we are the underdogs. There are many historical examples, from the Persian invasions of ancient times to the Muslim invasions later, where Europeans have performed at our best when we have been the underdogs. Perhaps we can do the same once the Multicultural madness retreats. We need to make sure, though, that those who have championed the toxic ideas of Multiculturalism and mass immigration of alien tribes disappear with it. If that happens, we can give our descendants a fresh start and lay the foundations for a new Renaissance, where European civilization can flourish once more.

Wow. I think this should go to proper authorities.

6 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:16:43pm

re: #3 oslogin

Have you dug through [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] yet? You have to specify date ranges in mont-to-month bases by clicking on the calendar symbol in order to find comments. 2003 to 2005 for Norwegian kafir, 2005 to 2007 for Fjordman.

7 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:19:25pm

re: #6 000G

2003 to 2005 for Norwegian kafir, 2005 to 2007 for Fjordman.

More specific: July 2003 to May 2005 for Norwegian kafir, May 2005 to October 2007 for Fjordman.

8 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:34:50pm

re: #7 000G

More specific: July 2003 to May 2005 for Norwegian kafir, May 2005 to October 2007 for Fjordman.

Haven't dug yet. Will dig.re: #2 000G

There he goes again with his weird pseudo-accurate percentage estimates.

That's Breivik.

9 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:35:04pm
If these demands are not fully implemented, if the European Union isn’t dismantled, Multiculturalism isn’t rejected and Muslim immigration isn’t stopped, we, the peoples of Europe, are left with no other choice than to conclude that our authorities have abandoned us, and that the taxes they collect are therefore unjust and that the laws that are passed without our consent are illegitimate. We will stop paying taxes and take the appropriate measures to protect our own security and ensure our national survival.

I've heard this bullshit (bullshit because it is uttered in the context of living as a free citizen in a democratic repulic) before: from Sovereign Citizens

10 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:36:45pm

re: #8 oslogin

That's Breivik.

Yeah, those pseudo-accurate percentage estimates are littered throughout the manifesto. Guy seemed to have thought of himself of having a supertight mathematical grip on reality fueled by sheer guesstimation or something.

11 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:41:41pm
I am increasingly convinced that the developments we are witnessing are deliberate. The lies we are being served are virtually identical in every Western country. I’ve had some discussions about this with my friend Ohmyrus who thinks this is about a structural failure in our political system. I don’t necessarily disagree with that, but I also believe there is a planned long-term goal of breaking down all white majority nations to create a new global oligarchy.

Typical "New World Order" paranoia.

12 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:45:03pm

re: #5 Sergey Romanov

Wow. I think this should go to proper authorities.

I have reason to believe some of these proper authorities actually read my blog ;).

13 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:48:36pm

re: #12 oslogin

Thanks for cross-posting.

14 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:48:36pm
in his book “Defeating Eurabia” he approvingly quotes a British blogger who notes that “this is an existential war”, and “if this means that we need to suspend parliamentary democracy for the duration — so be it”.

1. Why use Google Cache here instead of Webcitation?
2. It is worth pointing out that Fjordman lifted that quote directly from a comment at Jihad Watch: [Link: www.jihadwatch.org...] and it reads in whole:

DP111 | October 2, 2008 12:19 PM

Britain is under a threat, the likes of which it has never been under. If Napoleon or even Hitler, had conquered Britain, most of our British/Western culture, music, art etc would be unscathed. Islam on the other hand will wipe out everything. In the fullness of time, the very presence of Christianity- cathedrals, minsters, abbeys, will be demolished and razed to the ground (re: Bhumiyan Buddhas).

So grave is the threat to the existence, nay, the very soul of Britain, that it is not possible to rule out any policy to remove the Islam threat, just because it may harm some innocent person or group - racial, religious or secular, or ethnic, no matter how sacred. Besides, all of them can be compensated in some form at a later date, once the Islam threat has been removed. This is an existential war, and innocents will, and are being injured or killed.

If this means that we need to suspend parliamentary democracy for the duration - so be it. If it means suspending constitutional monarchy - so be it. If it means banning groups from the realm - so be it. All can be reversed once the danger is eliminated. Besides, there is precedent in British history for all the above.


3. That article from "Defeating Eurabia" also has some very interesting parts about LGF and defending teaming up with racists and fascists by Fjordman.

15 CuriousLurker  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:50:27pm

Excellent! Thank you again for sharing your research with us, oslogin.

16 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:50:46pm

re: #9 000G

Yes, most tribal supremacists, nativists, dominionists, and fascists espouse some form of "sovereign" blood and soil swill as justification for overruling the legal democratic government via the mechanism of local rights superseding all else: state, county, city, tribe, church enclave, etc.

It all folds back to the belief that ownership and rights to particular sections of earth belong to only some people by right of bloodline [as opposed to actual purchase, deed, or government grant/lease] It's an ancient feudal perspective that really fuels the dominionism and tribal supremacists, it's also why they idolize feudal tyrants and hanker after idealized nobility. They think that all tribes need to be separated into their own homelands/fiefdoms - if you dig back far enough you find that all of this really originated with descendants of deposed Royals and Royalists.

17 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:52:33pm
The truth is that any nation is always protected from external aggression by the men. The women can play a supporting role in this, but never more than that. For all the talk about “girl power” and “women kicking ass” which you see on movies these days, if the men of your “tribe” are too weak or demoralised to protect you, you will be enslaved and crushed by the men from other “tribes” before you can say “Vagina Monologues”. Which means that if you break down men’s masculinity, their willingness and ability to defend themselves and their families, you destroy the country. That’s exactly what Western women have done for the last forty years.

Jeeez, what a woman-hating crazy! Did he ever realize that women are serving in the US and Israeli military forces (mandatory in the latter)?

18 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:55:35pm

re: #16 Thanos

It all folds back to the belief that ownership and rights to particular sections of earth belong to only some people by right of bloodline [as opposed to actual purchase, deed, or government grant/lease] It's an ancient feudal perspective that really fuels the dominionism and tribal supremacists, it's also why they idolize feudal tyrants and hanker after idealized nobility. They think that all tribes need to be separated into their own homelands/fiefdoms - if you dig back far enough you find that all of this really originated with descendants of deposed Royals and Royalists.

Not 100 % convinced. A lot of NWO conspiracy crap (Alex Jones et al) that is very sympathetic to the sovereign citizen cause is very explicitly anti-feudalistic. But there is definitively a lot of overlap, especially where racism and religious supremacism is concerned.

19 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 2:57:35pm

re: #13 Charles

Thanks for cross-posting.

You're welcome; and it was our Russian friend who insisted ;).

20 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:00:07pm
News flash for Andrew G. Bostom: The Beatles did not peddle an ideology of hatred, and the lyrics of Helter Skelter do not really spell the recipe of “race war”, like they did for Charles Manson. Fjordman, on the other hand, did not write lyrics for a melody. For 6 years he has written a large number of blog posts peddling a world-view where leading politicians are guilty of treason and Europe is being occupied. And that makes sort of… well… a difference, don’t you think?

I do wonder, though, mr. Bostom, would you make similar excuses for an Islamist blogger who had inspired an Islamist terrorist? You wouldn’t? Quelle surprise.

Those last two paragraphs are very powerful, oslogin. And thank you also for repeatedly pointing out that it's not about the rhetoric so much as it is about the ideas. That's very important.

21 Randall Gross  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:00:33pm

re: #18 000G

It seems anarchic on surface but if you dig in and prod with these people you find they always want a strong man in charge. All of the White nationalist stink tanks want tribal homelands.

22 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:11:14pm

Andrew G. Bostom, together with Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer:
Image: geller_bostom_spencer_3.jpg

Lifted from here…

23 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:13:55pm

re: #22 000G

Andrew G. Bostom, together with Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] 11/08/05/geller_bostom_spencer_3.jpg

Lifted from here…

Huh, no idea why the link got garbled. Anyhow, the photo is originally from here. Note the date: October 19, 2007. The date the big meltdown over the neofascist-antijihadist connection started.

24 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:19:51pm

re: #14 000G

2. It is worth pointing out that Fjordman lifted that quote directly from a comment at Jihad Watch: [Link: www.jihadwatch.org...] and it reads in whole:

DP111 | October 2, 2008 12:19 PM

Britain is under a threat, the likes of which it has never been under. If Napoleon or even Hitler, had conquered Britain, most ...


We have one of those.

25 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:25:37pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

We have one of those.

Nice work!

Meanwhile, Fjordman is griping.

And I should go to bed.

26 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:27:15pm

re: #25 000G

We have one of those.

Nice work!

Meanwhile, Fjordman is griping.

And I should go to bed.

What a whiner! (Him, not you. Sleep well.)

27 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:27:36pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

We have one of those.

Well, look at that:

Technically it is not possible to deport a citizen. However when a nation and its culture is under threat, then all constutional freedoms, human rights laws etc , go out of the window. Under duress a nation can do anything. As Britain is a monarchy, then in the defence of the realm, just about anything can be done by the Crown. Anything.

28 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:28:25pm

Okay, night now.

29 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:30:27pm

re: #14 000G

1. Why use Google Cache here instead of Webcitation?

Laziness. Fixed it on my own site.

30 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:30:30pm

re: #19 oslogin

You're welcome; and it was our Russian friend who insisted ;).

Thanks to JJ42, I saw you on TV. You were preceded by Ole Jørgen Anfindsen. Maybe you saw it. Link.

31 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:33:03pm

re: #30 wrenchwench

Thanks to JJ42, I saw you on TV. You were preceded by Ole Jørgen Anfindsen. Maybe you saw it. Link.

Didn't see it yet, but I was sort of there ;)

32 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:33:48pm

re: #31 oslogin

Didn't see it yet, but I was sort of there ;)

You look kinda like one of my brothers. Before he trimmed his hair and beard real short.

33 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:37:10pm

re: #32 wrenchwench

You look kinda like one of my brothers. Before he trimmed his hair and beard real short.

I hope my wife does not meet him!

34 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 3:38:35pm

re: #33 oslogin

I hope my wife does not meet him!

LOL. He lives in Berlin. And has a wife too.

35 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 5:21:51pm

I'm tempted to try my new "promotion" code on this LGF Page and promote it into the first front page post not written by me. (Or my brother - he wrote a few posts very early on.)

It would make a good test page. Maybe I'll give it a shot over the weekend.

36 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 5:26:10pm

By the way, Oyvind - do you mind if I change the title to something more descriptive of the "fascism" point?

Also, if you want to show your real name on posts like this one, instead of "oslogin," go to your Account Settings page and enter your real name as the "screen name."

37 Øyvind Strømmen  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 5:46:29pm

re: #36 Charles

By the way, Oyvind - do you mind if I change the title to something more descriptive of the "fascism" point?

Also, if you want to show your real name on posts like this one, instead of "oslogin," go to your Account Settings page and enter your real name as the "screen name."

Change away.

38 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 5, 2011 5:47:17pm

re: #26 wrenchwench

Norway is going to be anti-right wing for a while.

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:12:40pm

This new thread, did somebody live here before? //

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:17:12pm

Group blog!

41 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:18:50pm

G'night all.

42 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:21:29pm

Waiting to see what happens if the thread disappears again.

Will I fall into an alternate dimension in which Stinky wears a goatee and lizards are tortured for typos?

43 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:24:08pm

re: #42 EmmmieG

Waiting to see what happens if the thread disappears again.

Will I fall into an alternate dimension in which Stinky wears a goatee and lizards are tortured for typos?

Are you sure Stinky doesn't have a goatee in this dimension?

44 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:24:47pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Are you sure Stinky doesn't have a goatee in this dimension?

Well...wait, I'm in the "bad" dimension already?

This explains a lot of things.

45 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:24:48pm

re: #17 000G

Jeeez, what a woman-hating crazy! Did he ever realize that women are serving in the US and Israeli military forces (mandatory in the latter)?

Doesn't matter. When the chips are down, the MEN will have to handle things--and if the men haven't been socialized to be SOBs who love the tribe above all, and are entirely uninfluenced by women, they won't make the cut.

How this differs from the views on gender relations espoused by the jihadis remains unclear at this hour.

46 Charleston Chew  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:25:44pm

If the Beatles had inspired Charles Manson the way Fjordman inspired Breivik, today Manson would only be remembered for his music.

47 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:26:46pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Are you sure Stinky doesn't have a goatee in this dimensionre: #44 EmmmieG

Well...wait, I'm in the "bad" dimension already?

This explains a lot of things.

?

I plead the FIFTH

48 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:28:40pm

re: #46 Charleston Chew

If the Beatles had inspired Charles Manson the way Fjordman inspired Breivik, today Manson would only be remembered for his music.

Helter Skelter....proof the Beatles invented heavy metal...factoid

49 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:29:20pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

?

I plead the FIFTH

[Video]

hurl

50 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:29:24pm

re: #43 wrenchwench

Are you sure Stinky doesn't have a goatee in this dimension?

Reading my thoughts again? Tsk, tsk./

51 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:30:24pm

re: #48 albusteve

Helter Skelter...proof the Beatles invented heavy metal...factoid

Yoko Ono

Proof the Beatles DID do drugs!!
//

52 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:31:38pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

Nice voice, but whiny girl in love songs annoy me.

Leave him already.

53 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:31:50pm

re: #51 sattv4u2

Yoko Ono

Proof the Beatles DID do drugs!!
//

who didn't?

54 sattv4u2  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:32:43pm

re: #52 EmmmieG

Nice voice, but whiny girl in love songs annoy me.

Leave him already
.

If for no other reason, him wearing that red velvet suit!!

55 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:36:41pm

re: #52 EmmmieG

Nice voice, but whiny girl in love songs annoy me.

Leave him already.

Palate cleanser?

56 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:38:21pm

Nice. This must be the new feature.

57 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:39:51pm

Man, this is some tricky code. Sorry for the false starts - this one will remain. I think I've debugged the ding updating now. Some of these many-to-many relationships I've designed in the DB are headache-inducing.

One limitation right now: authors can't edit their front page posts once they've been promoted, but I can if something really needs to be changed. Editing promoted Pages is next on the to-do list.

58 Peter_P3  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:41:24pm

re # 26

Where is the whining?

59 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:42:16pm

re: #58 Peter_P3

re # 26

Where is the whining?

in the text...where else?

60 Mark Winter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:42:56pm

"Most Europeans still don’t know that EU leaders are using their money without their consent to merge Europe with the Arab world because their media don’t tell them this."

This and related ideas seem to be borrowed from Bat Yeor, a nowadays rather silent 80yo lady living in Geneva.

It's of course completely nonsense. European leaders don't even want Turkey in the EU, and Morocco's request to be admitted was flatly refused decades ago.

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:43:52pm

re: #57 Charles

Excellent work.

62 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:43:52pm

re: #58 Peter_P3

re # 26

Where is the whining?

Right here:

I was never accused of doing anything criminal, obviously because I had nothing to do with the terror attacks and they know this. Yet without the slightest hint of proof of any lawbreaking, I was treated as a murder suspect.

To my total surprise I had to go to my flat, where for several hours half a dozen police officers went through all of my DVDs, searched through my old printed travel photographs from years back, searched through all of my (many) books, checked my kitchen equipment, went through all of my clothes, and confiscated a suitcase that contained nothing more than clothes and some books. They also confiscated several digital devices, including my camera and my laptop. It is quite clear that they wanted information about non-violent Islam-critical networks in Europe that they suspected might be contained in my PC, even though they denied this to me.

Please remember that the police and the Police Security Service (PST) apparently had no clue who I was until I literally knocked on their door of my own free will, even though I knew full well that I would have to give up my anonymity after doing so. I had very little information about Breivik since I have never met him, something which he himself has admitted, yet I still handed over what little information I had. I also answered their questions honestly, even though, technically speaking, I did not have to do so.

If you believe the mass media, the police were still not sure that I really was Fjordman until a couple of hours after I had turned up at the police station. As soon as they understood that this was indeed the case, they rushed through a quick decision to search my flat and confiscate my computer equipment immediately. They must have realized at this point that I had nothing at all to do with the terror attacks.

I personally suspect that this was mainly a political decision.

I was going to highlight some of it, but it's one big whine.

63 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:44:13pm

Heads up on the flight deck.

64 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:44:27pm

re: #55 wrenchwench

Palate cleanser?

[Video]

Oh my. Very nice.

65 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:46:34pm

re: #64 EmmmieG

Oh my. Very nice.

Charles posted it here a while back. That woman's late father was a hell of a singer, and there must be something on her mother's side too.

66 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:47:23pm

Fucking fascists, how do they work?
/unfortunately, we know all too well

67 Peter_P3  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:47:48pm

re: #59 albusteve

in the text...where else?

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

68 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:48:07pm
69 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:48:58pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

I don't think he was treated like a murder suspect. But he thinks so.

70 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:49:35pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

IIRC, he had regular correspondence with the terrorist prior his killing spree. So... tough shit for him.

71 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:49:49pm

re: #68 ProLifeLiberal

I just found this on BBC.

Any details?

There's a good PAGE on this.

72 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:50:17pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

not my call how he should be treated...my call is that he is a whining sissy...
I know he gets better treatment from LE than he would from me

73 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:50:21pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

Are you a fan of Fjordy?

74 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:50:29pm

LGF just became a group blog for the first time in its 10-year history.

Here's a toast to a new chapter in the convoluted saga of Little Green Footballs. (I just opened a bottle of Hillgate Rousanne that has an incredible velvety finish.)

75 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:50:36pm

OT: I just posted a page on solar blast headed to Earth. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

76 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:50:37pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

Peder Jensen is what you would call a person of interest. They were or are looking for a wider conspiracy. Breivik alluded to having had assistance and mentioned "cells" in his manifesto. Peder Jensen is a legitimate lead given the intensity of Breivik's fascination and attempted contact with Peder Jensen.

77 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:51:17pm

re: #74 Charles

LGF just became a group blog for the first time in its 10-year history.

Here's a toast to a new chapter in the convoluted saga of Little Green Footballs. (I just opened a bottle of Hillgate Rousanne that has an incredible velvety finish.)

BARTENDER!
Charles is buying!

78 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:51:42pm

re: #74 Charles

It gets better every day. Your coding is impressive.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:51:46pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

First, the only person saying he was 'treated as a murder suspect' is him. And it's not 'because he blogs about Islam'.

Did the police do anything illegal? I don't know Norwegian law.

Do you think the cops did anything wrong?

If he were in the same relation to a Muslim terrorist as he is to Breivik, would you consider the behavior of the police unusual or incorrect?

80 Peter_P3  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:52:16pm

re: #69 wrenchwench

I don't think he was treated like a murder suspect. But he thinks so.

Are you serious?

To my total surprise I had to go to my flat, where for several hours half a dozen police officers went through all of my DVDs, searched through my old printed travel photographs from years back, searched through all of my (many) books, checked my kitchen equipment, went through all of my clothes, and confiscated a suitcase that contained nothing more than clothes and some books. They also confiscated several digital devices, including my camera and my laptop.

Ok it is all in his head then. He is making it up!

81 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:52:44pm

re: #71 Stanley Sea

I just realized that his area directly appears in the Deathly Hallows.

82 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:52:47pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

First, the only person saying he was 'treated as a murder suspect' is him. And it's not 'because he blogs about Islam'.

Did the police do anything illegal? I don't know Norwegian law.

Do you think the cops did anything wrong?

If he were in the same relation to a Muslim terrorist as he is to Breivik, would you consider the behavior of the police unusual or incorrect?

HA!!

83 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:52:54pm

re: #76 Gus 802

Perfectly stated.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:53:27pm

re: #80 Peter_P3

Are you serious?

Ok it is all in his head then. He is making it up!

They searched his flat and took his computer. Does that strike you as inappropriate, given the situation?

85 Charleston Chew  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:54:14pm

re: #3 oslogin

A fellow Norwegian blogger (he's a socialist! boo!), points out another Fjordman text which is worth noting:

[Link: indregard.no...]

It's in Norwegian, but the Fjordman quote isn't. I'll add it here anyway:

This also implies that for the first time in centuries we are the underdogs. There are many historical examples, from the Persian invasions of ancient times to the Muslim invasions later, where Europeans have performed at our best when we have been the underdogs. Perhaps we can do the same once the Multicultural madness retreats. We need to make sure, though, that those who have championed the toxic ideas of Multiculturalism and mass immigration of alien tribes disappear with it. If that happens, we can give our descendants a fresh start and lay the foundations for a new Renaissance, where European civilization can flourish once more.

The reference to the Renaissance in this context got to me.

The Renaissance originated in Florence in great part as a result of the patronage of the wealthy Medici. They got that wealth from the textile trade.

Great cultures and great civilizations always come from trade - the opposite of what this xenophobe advocates. People trade out of necessity. They need materials and goods. They trade to make money. But in the process they also trade culture, ideas, customs, art, food, and religions. They great cultures of Europe originated from their convenient trade locations, either on water or on Eurasian land routes. The reason the Renaissance originated in Italy was in part because of its ability to trade with Europe, Africa, and Asia.

Great cultures come from vibrant multicultural port cities (or the land equivalent) full of foreigners (and venereal disease, but that's another topic.)

Just what was Norway's contribution to the Renaissance, anyway?

86 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:54:40pm

SPL:

"Can the fear-monger rightfully claim absolute innocence when the duly frightened person lashes out with violence?"
[Link: www.splcenter.org...]
87 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:54:44pm

re: #80 Peter_P3

Are you serious?

Ok it is all in his head then. He is making it up!

don't be stupid....he may be a material witness or even a conspirator....does he have something to hide?...is he on the side of justice?

88 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:54:49pm

Gates of Vienna has some similar rhetoric. The general idea is to claim that things are really bad, that the normal political process isn't working and cannot work, and that---

a silence descends---

[between the lines, the reader is left to draw the unstated but hard to miss conclusion, given the cockeyed premises, that it must and should come to civil war.]

89 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:56:12pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

Are you a fan of Fjordy?

A blast from the past.

245 Peter_P312/11/2010 7:11:27 pm PST


There has been a failed terrorist attack in Swedens Capital Stockholm. Apparently a guy blew himself up and a car exploded as well. Only casualty is the terrorist.

Terrorist attack in Stockholm. Perpatrator blames Lars Wilks (Swedish muhammed cartoonist who drew MO as a dog and Swedens involvement in Afghanistan [this was a link]

What do you guys make of this? Sweden lost its virginity tonite. Luckily no innocent lives were spilled. Is this the beginning of the end for Sweden as a PC nation? [emphasis added]

90 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:56:15pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

He admitted to having email contact with a terrorist who methodically murdered children on an island for ninety minutes, and quoted his writings extensively as inspiration for the act. He's a little whining piece of trash who's trying to cast himself as a victim of totalitarian repression, it's disgusting.

91 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:56:24pm

re: #80 Peter_P3

Are you serious?

Ok it is all in his head then. He is making it up!

Think of it as the Norwegian version of the Patriot Act. Would you object to having an Islamic blogger being treated this way if a terrorist had mentioned said blogger numerous times, and in a positive light, in his blog?

92 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:57:37pm

re: #71 Stanley Sea

If my reading is correct, then it means an immigrant community is rioting over police mistreatment. Is that roughly right?

93 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:58:58pm

re: #88 lostlakehiker

[between the lines, the reader is left to draw the unstated but hard to miss conclusion, given the cockeyed premises, that it must and should come to civil war.]

Clearly stated, in some Fjordman essays:

The Serbian-American writer Serge Trifkovic, author of the book Defeating Jihad, has stated that the ongoing failure by their entrusted leaders to demographically protect European and European-derived nations constitutes the greatest betrayal in history. I am tempted to agree with him. In the end, the traitors and fifth columnists we have in our media and academia must be removed from power and replaced with people who are loyal to us and our nations.[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]
94 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:59:44pm

re: #85 Charleston Chew

Not much. They were under either Denmark and Sweden at the time. Those countries had some scientific breakthroughs later.

Sweden and the Ottomans were allies though. Hell, Sweden and Turkey are still decently close, and Sweden was recently contracted with large order for naval vessels.

95 Peter_P3  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 5:59:55pm

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

First, the only person saying he was 'treated as a murder suspect' is him. And it's not 'because he blogs about Islam'.

Did the police do anything illegal? I don't know Norwegian law.

Do you think the cops did anything wrong?

If he were in the same relation to a Muslim terrorist as he is to Breivik, would you consider the behavior of the police unusual or incorrect?

I am not an expert on Norwegian law, and I dont know what legal measures the police picked up from court before or after the confiscations.

So I am not saying the police broke the law in this instance. It is a very special situation.

Regarding your last statement its a hypothetical question, but It would depend on the circumstances. The behaviour by the police against someone who himself contacts the police in this case is certainly, by scandinavian standards, very unusual. I just think it is unfair to call him a whiner - in this instance. Thats all.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:00:03pm

re: #91 Gus 802

Think of it as the Norwegian version of the Patriot Act. Would you object to having an Islamic blogger being treated this way if a terrorist had mentioned said blogger numerous times, and in a positive light, in his blog?

And claimed to be part of a wider conspiracy.

That's the thing.

Fjordman hasn't been charged with anything, but any judge is going to give the cops access to his papers. If there's nothing in there, presumably, he will get them back. If there's anything relating to Breivik, it will become evidence.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:00:42pm

re: #95 Peter_P3

I am not an expert on Norwegian law, and I dont know what legal measures the police picked up from court before or after the confiscations.

So I am not saying the police broke the law in this instance. It is a very special situation.

Regarding your last statement its a hypothetical question, but It would depend on the circumstances. The behaviour by the police against someone who himself contacts the police in this case is certainly, by scandinavian standards, very unusual. I just think it is unfair to call him a whiner - in this instance. Thats all.

I think he's a lot worse than a whiner.

98 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:01:48pm

re: #95 Peter_P3

I am not an expert on Norwegian law, and I dont know what legal measures the police picked up from court before or after the confiscations.

So I am not saying the police broke the law in this instance. It is a very special situation.

Regarding your last statement its a hypothetical question, but It would depend on the circumstances. The behaviour by the police against someone who himself contacts the police in this case is certainly, by scandinavian standards, very unusual. I just think it is unfair to call him a whiner - in this instance. Thats all.

What does it matter to you how we call this whiner?

99 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:01:55pm

re: #85 Charleston Chew

The reference to the Renaissance in this context got to me.

The Renaissance originated in Florence in great part as a result of the patronage of the wealthy Medici. They got that wealth from the textile trade.

Great cultures and great civilizations always come from trade - the opposite of what this xenophobe advocates. People trade out of necessity. They need materials and goods. They trade to make money. But in the process they also trade culture, ideas, customs, art, food, and religions. They great cultures of Europe originated from their convenient trade locations, either on water or on Eurasian land routes. The reason the Renaissance originated in Italy was in part because of its ability to trade with Europe, Africa, and Asia.

Great cultures come from vibrant multicultural port cities (or the land equivalent) full of foreigners (and venereal disease, but that's another topic.)

Just what was Norway's contribution to the Renaissance, anyway?

Nil, of course. But this is not to say that Norway has never contributed anything to the advance of civilization.

After the Renaissance triumphs of solving the general cubic, and not too long after, the general quartic, along the lines of the good old quadratic formula, we got stuck. Nobody could do the quintic. And why was that?

Enter Niels Henrik Abel. WikiBiography. Abel had to invent some radically new mathematics to show that there was no such thing as a method for quintics in the same spirit as what had been done with the others.

100 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:02:25pm

re: #95 Peter_P3

I just think it is unfair to call him a whiner - in this instance. Thats all.

I apologize for impugning the personality of a person you apparently have much sympathy for.

/tag denotes lack of seriousness on my part. I apologize again.

101 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:02:30pm

re: #95 Peter_P3

I just think it is unfair to call him a whiner - in this instance.

Yes. Fascist, xenophobic, hate-monger is far more fair, I think.

102 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:03:11pm

re: #95 Peter_P3

I am not an expert on Norwegian law, and I dont know what legal measures the police picked up from court before or after the confiscations.

So I am not saying the police broke the law in this instance. It is a very special situation.

Regarding your last statement its a hypothetical question, but It would depend on the circumstances. The behaviour by the police against someone who himself contacts the police in this case is certainly, by scandinavian standards, very unusual. I just think it is unfair to call him a whiner - in this instance. Thats all.

he's a main player in this thing and a hell of a lot of people are dead...he's complaining about his soire with the cops?....fuck him

103 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:04:12pm

re: #67 Peter_P3

You mean where he explains what happend with the police?

I don´t see why he shold be treated as a murder suspect, just because he blogs about Islam.

When a sizable amount of Fjordman's essays are used as inspiration and justification for ABB (as evidenced in his own lengthy, fascist tome) to blow stuff up and shoot, injure, and kill dozens of unarmed, innocent kids, not to mention having personal correspondence with ABB (IIRC), I'd say Fjordman has some moral, if not legal, culpability in all of this.

104 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:05:18pm

re: #87 albusteve

don't be stupid...he may be a material witness or even a conspirator...does he have something to hide?...is he on the side of justice?

The simplest and best reason to snatch his data is that the data may well provide clues as to how things went, and to whether or not there are in fact others.

That's reason enough, and the rest needn't be gone into. After the data have been examined thoroughly, there will be time to bring charges if that's appropriate, and to hold a dignified silence, if what has been learned didn't warrant any such charges.

105 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:05:36pm

OK, I can see the situation is well in hand. I'm going home so I can join in the celebration.

Later, lizards.

106 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:05:42pm

re: #74 Charles

LGF just became a group blog for the first time in its 10-year history.

Here's a toast to a new chapter in the convoluted saga of Little Green Footballs. (I just opened a bottle of Hillgate Rousanne that has an incredible velvety finish.)

Yeah, but is it good?

///

107 Charleston Chew  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:06:11pm

re: #99 lostlakehiker

Nil, of course. But this is not to say that Norway has never contributed anything to the advance of civilization.

After the Renaissance triumphs of solving the general cubic, and not too long after, the general quartic, along the lines of the good old quadratic formula, we got stuck. Nobody could do the quintic. And why was that?

Enter Niels Henrik Abel. WikiBiography. Abel had to invent some radically new mathematics to show that there was no such thing as a method for quintics in the same spirit as what had been done with the others.

Btw, I wasn't trying to dis Norway.

108 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:08:38pm

re: #101 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes. Fascist, xenophobic, hate-monger is far more fair, I think.

A self centered butt-munching pathetic bigoted mamzer with a ridiculous monkey sperm hairdo.

109 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:09:00pm

re: #80 Peter_P3

Are you serious?

Ok it is all in his head then. He is making it up!

Let me summarize this:

1. A mass murderer sets of a bomb in central Oslo, and then procedes to shoot and kill dozens of unarmed youth.
2. The mass murderer releases a manifesto, where large swaths of the manifesto is taken directly from Fjordman's essays. Fjordman is singled out as a source of inspiration, by the mass murderer himself.
3. The mass murderer and Fjordman has been in contact with eachother via email; a known fact to the police, although they have no way to know the extent of this contact
4. Fjordman has himself suggested to take "appropriate measures", in spite of never saying what these "appropriate measures" are.
5. The terrorist brags that he is a members of organisation and talks of other cells in several countries

And you think that the police should not have searched Fjordman's apartment, or that they should not be checking his electronic equipment? Really? That's your argument?

No, Fjordman wasn't treated like a murder suspect. He was treated as someone pointed at as the main ideological inspiration by a mass murderer killing dozens of people, someone who also had been in contact with the mass murderer.

Tell me, would you be as lenient with Fjordman if his name was... say... Ayman Muhammed al-Bokhari?

110 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:09:30pm

re: #80 Peter_P3

What's your game? You sure are expending a lot of energy trying to defend an execrable POS...

111 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:09:41pm

Imagine if you will. No doubt Peder Jensen support waterboarding, I mean torture. He also undoubtedly supports USA's Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA). And a number of other warrantless searches used to catch terrorist acts and or conspiracies to commit such acts. Here we have Peder Jensen being stated as the idol of the Norwegian terrorist Breivik and he's now complaining about how he was treated by Norwegian law enforcement. Welcome to the other side Jensen.

112 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:10:21pm

There you go. Peder Jensen is lucky he wasn't waterboarded. I say in jest.

113 wrenchwench  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:11:05pm

re: #109 oslogin

Very well in hand indeed!

/out again, for reals, I mean it...

114 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:11:47pm

re: #109 oslogin

Let me summarize this:

1. A mass murderer sets of a bomb in central Oslo, and then procedes to shoot and kill dozens of unarmed youth.
2. The mass murderer releases a manifesto, where large swaths of the manifesto is taken directly from Fjordman's essays. Fjordman is singled out as a source of inspiration, by the mass murderer himself.
3. The mass murderer and Fjordman has been in contact with eachother via email; a known fact to the police, although they have no way to know the extent of this contact
4. Fjordman has himself suggested to take "appropriate measures", in spite of never saying what these "appropriate measures" are.
5. The terrorist brags that he is a members of organisation and talks of other cells in several countries

And you think that the police should not have searched Fjordman's apartment, or that they should not be checking his electronic equipment? Really? That's your argument?

No, Fjordman wasn't treated like a murder suspect. He was treated as someone pointed at as the main ideological inspiration by a mass murderer killing dozens of people, someone who also had been in contact with the mass murderer.

Tell me, would you be as lenient with Fjordman if his name was... say... Ayman Muhammed al-Bokhari?

My guess is not just "No", but "Hell, no!"

115 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:12:12pm

re: #111 Gus 802

"The superbly insightful Fjordman"
strikes again.

116 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:19:13pm

Did the internet stop for a couple of minutes? :)

117 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:20:35pm

re: #116 Gus 802
I think it did. /

118 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:21:13pm

Sorry if I offended anyone earlier today.

119 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:21:38pm

re: #118 ProLifeLiberal

Actually sorry for being a bit of a douche.

120 engineer cat  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:22:36pm

People want to live with their own kind

well, i did move to the bay area to be with people as strange as i am...

121 Peter_P3  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:26:04pm
Are you a fan of Fjordy?

I probably know less about this guy than Charles does, so why these personal attacks? Charles used to be a fan/friend of him not so?

I haven´t remotely read all the Fjordman files, but he seems well articulated and pretty intelligent to me.

Do I agree with him? Some of what he writes seem reasonably founded in facts, other parts seem like ramblings to me.

A little like this blog actually ;-)

122 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:26:07pm

re: #109 oslogin

Great work on the OP, and thanks again for sticking with this thing and keeping us all informed.

Also, congratulations on being the very first Lizard to have their Page promoted to the front. My hat is off to you. Cheers!

123 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:27:59pm

re: #122 Slumbering Behemoth

Great work on the OP, and thanks again for sticking with this thing and keeping us all informed.

Also, congratulations on being the very first Lizard to have their Page promoted to the front. My hat is off to you. Cheers!

Many thanks.

124 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:28:06pm

re: #121 Peter_P3

Do I agree with him? Some of what he writes seem reasonably founded in facts, other parts seem like ramblings to me.

Such as?

Rotfl, this ought to be good.

125 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:28:25pm

re: #121 Peter_P3

I probably know less about this guy than Charles does, so why these personal attacks? Charles used to be a fan/friend of him not so?

I haven´t remotely read all the Fjordman files, but he seems well articulated and pretty intelligent to me.

Do I agree with him? Some of what he writes seem reasonably founded in facts, other parts seem like ramblings to me.

A little like this blog actually ;-)

you are simply not up to speed

126 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:30:16pm

re: #109 oslogin

Really glad you are a lizard.

127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:30:35pm

re: #109 oslogin

Tell me, would you be as lenient with Fjordman if his name was... say... Ayman Muhammed al-Bokhari?

[crickets..]

128 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:31:32pm

re: #121 Peter_P3

I probably know less about this guy than Charles does, so why these personal attacks? Charles used to be a fan/friend of him not so?

One of the last replies I ever posted to Fjordman, in 2007: LGF Comment

Believe me, Fjordman, I'm wondering tonight why I ever thought you had anything worthwhile to say. If the time comes when it "backfires" on me that I linked to your essays, I'll be happy to say "Mea culpa."

129 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:32:14pm

It's that day of the year.. I always since I have been here posted about the Football Hall of fame inductions and how inspiring the speeches are from the best of the best...
Shannon Sharp's talk about his life is inspiring.. When he stood over his grandma's casket and asked her If he had become the man she raised him to be and was she proud of him?
Tears flowed down my cheek.. This happens every year to me.. I am so proud of these men.

130 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:32:20pm

re: #120 engineer dog

well, i did move to the bay area to be with people as strange as i am...

Bet you were disappointed to find that underneath all the weird clothing, indie music, and pretense of non-conformity, us Bay Area folk are just as dull and banal people anywhere else.
/

131 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:32:34pm

re: #121 Peter_P3

Anything else you need to know?

132 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:34:01pm

re: #129 HoosierHoops

It's that day of the year.. I always since I have been here posted about the Football Hall of fame inductions and how inspiring the speeches are from the best of the best...
Shannon Sharp's talk about his life is inspiring.. When he stood over his grandma's casket and asked her If he had become the man she raised him to be and was she proud of him?
Tears flowed down my cheek.. This happens every year to me.. I am so proud of these men.

Mo fo. I missed it. How was Marshall?

Damn, and thanks.

133 Digital Display  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:34:47pm

re: #132 Stanley Sea

Mo fo. I missed it. How was Marshall?

Damn, and thanks.

Marshall is talking right now on ESPN

134 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:37:33pm

re: #133 HoosierHoops

away from tv. searching. no find. Only 'watch on espn'

I'll catch later I guess.

135 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:37:43pm

People like Anders Behring Breivik do not exist in a vacuum.

136 albusteve  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:38:28pm

re: #129 HoosierHoops

It's that day of the year.. I always since I have been here posted about the Football Hall of fame inductions and how inspiring the speeches are from the best of the best...
Shannon Sharp's talk about his life is inspiring.. When he stood over his grandma's casket and asked her If he had become the man she raised him to be and was she proud of him?
Tears flowed down my cheek.. This happens every year to me.. I am so proud of these men.

Hanburger and Dent....what can you say?
primo players....raises the annual question of who's not in

137 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:40:29pm

re: #135 Charles

People like Anders Behring Breivik do not exist in a vacuum.

To quote Fjordman's master thesis at the University in Oslo:
The Internet is not a magic vessel, and it does not exist in a political and cultural vacuum.

Somewhat... ironic.

138 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:40:51pm

Theres a riot in london, happening round by my old school.

Bad times.

139 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:41:48pm

re: #138 wozzablog
I just saw that on yahoo! This is very upsetting. :(

140 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:41:59pm

re: #74 Charles

LGF just became a group blog for the first time in its 10-year history.

Here's a toast to a new chapter in the convoluted saga of Little Green Footballs. (I just opened a bottle of Hillgate Rousanne that has an incredible velvety finish.)

Happy to be along for the ride! Thanks for a great blog, Charles.

141 Peter_P3  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:43:02pm

re: #135 Charles

People like Anders Behring Breivik do not exist in a vacuum.

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

142 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:44:11pm

Charles:

It says Ole Jørgen Anfindsen in my text now. The HTML there should have been rendered as an 'ø'. Might be some code that needs fixing ;)

143 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:45:20pm

re: #138 wozzablog

Theres a riot in london, happening round by my old school.

Bad times.

Sorry to hear it, wozza.

144 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:45:52pm

re: #141 Peter_P3

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

Are you going to answer my question on Ayman Muhammed al-Bokhari?

145 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:46:15pm

re: #139 PhillyPretzel

I just saw that on yahoo! This is very upsetting. :(

It's really upsetting for me because the guy who was shot (which has sparked all this) - while being a mate of an fb pal - was known to the police and under surveillance on suspision of going to kill his cousins murderer - this is not the guy you go to bat for as a rioting mob.

146 prairiefire  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:46:17pm

re: #141 Peter_P3

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

What terrorist exists in a vacuum?

147 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:46:32pm

re: #142 oslogin

Well, the HTML in my comment was shown fine of course. In the text it says oslash ;

148 Virginia Plain  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:46:39pm

Awesome, now this challenges me to write, and write something substantial. I've done blogging before, but it's gone by the wayside because I'm busy with school

149 Charles Johnson  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:47:23pm

re: #147 oslogin

Well, the HTML in my comment was shown fine of course. In the text it says oslash ;

You Europeans and your weird characters. If you reload it should be fixed now.

150 William of Orange  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:48:12pm

I'l grant it him that he's right about the European Union that it uses, and squanders, a lot of money. The second part of that sentence is totally nonsense, that the money is used to merge with Arab nations. Why the EU still periodically moves itself from Brussels to Strassbourg and vice versa is something that annoys me very. Wasted money. It's all about French pride....

151 Øyvind Strømmen  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:49:51pm

re: #149 Charles

You Europeans and your weird characters. If you reload it should be fixed now.

Hey! I'm not to blame for the literal - or lettergical, or whatever - poverty of the English language. You should have ø's, too, sir... or sør.

152 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:50:09pm

re: #141 Peter_P3

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

Come out and say what you really mean.

153 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:50:55pm

re: #141 Peter_P3

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

What part of "people like" do you not understand?

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:52:48pm

re: #141 Peter_P3

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

No terrorist emerges from a vacuum. Why would you imagine anyone here would think that?

Yes, that was a slightly loaded question. Your slip is showing.

155 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:54:27pm

re: #146 prairiefire

What terrorist exists in a vacuum?

Darth Vader.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:54:50pm

re: #151 oslogin

Hey! I'm not to blame for the literal - or lettergical, or whatever - poverty of the English language. You should have ø's, too, sir... or sør.

We have twenty-six letters and no accent marks at all! We force the Latin alphabet to do crap it never thought was possible! We use the same bizarre combinations of letters to spell four or five different sounds!

(English is language of great enthusiasm and little planning.)

157 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:55:02pm

HOOPS! I went into the house & caught Marshall's speech. 20 MINUTES AGO. I went to the bathroom & came out here to advise. He's still talking.

Is this the longest evah?

158 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:56:02pm

re: #141 Peter_P3

Amen to that.

But other terrorists do - right?

Are you mouth stuffing? 'cuz that looks like mouth stuffing. Putting words in other people's mouths is poor form, and frowned upon by most.

159 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:56:27pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist
::: rolls eyes ::: Yes the English language is a melting pot of almost every other language. /

160 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:58:17pm

re: #158 Slumbering Behemoth

Are you mouth stuffing? 'cuz that looks like mouth stuffing. Putting words in other people's mouths is poor form, and frowned upon by most.

Yeah. It's pretty much the ol' "how often do you beat your wife" question.

161 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 6:59:59pm

re: #160 Gus 802

Sooo... have you stopped masturbating with stolen cheese yet?

162 Killgore Trout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:01:14pm

re: #12 oslogin

I have reason to believe some of these proper authorities actually read my blog ;).

Nice!

163 Wozza Matter?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:02:37pm

G'night (again)

164 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:03:20pm

re: #161 Slumbering Behemoth

Comedic reference found here. There is no nudity or actual masturbation, just a reference to it, and some NSFW language.

165 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:05:48pm

Arsonist: it was "his duty to God..."

Steven William Turner, 29, was taken into custody shortly after a citizen called the Navajo County Sheriff's Office about 12:45 a.m. Thursday to report large fires burning on the east side of the lake, just south of the small community of Silver Lakes Estates.

Show Low's Fire and Police departments responded to the call. Firefighters quickly put out the fire and police held Turner for sheriff's deputies.

According to the Sheriff's Office, Turner said he started the fires because it was "his duty to God..." Police said biblical literature was found in the area.

At the time of the fires, the wind was blowing toward the northeast with gusts to 33 mph and Navajo County was under a red flag warning and fire restrictions.

166 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:06:42pm

re: #164 Slumbering Behemoth

Comedic reference found here. There is no nudity or actual masturbation, just a reference to it, and some NSFW language.

Praise Gravel. Can't watch videos. 5Gs per month an all that jazz. Plus now I have 12 days left and only 1.2GB left. D'oh!

167 MittDoesNotCompute  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:08:14pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

We have twenty-six letters and no accent marks at all! We force the Latin alphabet to do crap it never thought was possible! We use the same bizarre combinations of letters to spell four or five different sounds!

(English is language of great enthusiasm and little planning.)

English doesn't borrow from other languages, it follows them down dark alleys and rifles their pockets for loose words.

168 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:09:06pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Dang, I keep forgetting. No matter, you've likely seen it a hundred times before. It was Jon Lajoie's commercial for the awesome new product known as "Not Giving A Fuck".

169 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:09:20pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

For a sec I thought that was local. Uh, phew?

170 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:10:02pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

We have twenty-six letters and no accent marks at all! We force the Latin alphabet to do crap it never thought was possible! We use the same bizarre combinations of letters to spell four or five different sounds!

(English is language of great enthusiasm and little planning.)

I wound the dressing around my wound. Next time, I'll wind it inside, out of the wind.

171 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:10:34pm

re: #169 Stanley Sea

For a sec I thought that was local. Uh, phew?

Any where with a serious fire season needs to be careful.

172 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:11:58pm

re: #168 Slumbering Behemoth

Dang, I keep forgetting. No matter, you've likely seen it a hundred times before. It was Jon Lajoie's commercial for the awesome new product known as "Not Giving A Fuck".

Image: and-not-a-single-fuck-500x506.jpg

173 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:12:04pm
The core myth that inspires this project is that only a populist, trans-class movement of purifying, cathartic national rebirth (palingenesis) can stem the tide of decadence.

You see?!!1 We've got to make sArah Palin president or we're all DOOMED!!!111

174 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:14:08pm

re: #166 Gus 802

Praise Gravel. Can't watch videos. 5Gs per month an all that jazz. Plus now I have 12 days left and only 1.2GB left. D'oh!

OK, I've already forgotten. LOL, what is the providence of GRAVEL?

175 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:14:53pm

re: #172 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I give the lowest amount of fuck humanly possible.

176 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:15:01pm

re: #174 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.superpages.com...]

177 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:15:12pm

re: #172 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You used my favorite picture! ^_^

It's my computer background.

178 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:15:25pm

re: #174 Stanley Sea

Gravel is Providence. Divine Providence.

179 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:16:31pm

re: #174 Stanley Sea

OK, I've already forgotten. LOL, what is the providence of GRAVEL?

To spread the word of Gravel and rid the world of penguins.

//

180 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:18:15pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Arsonist: it was "his duty to God..."

Sounds like a lone-nut this time. Probably crazy.

181 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:19:27pm

re: #178 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought she meant the one in Rhode island.
Where the old world gravel hangs, heavy in the air.

182 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:19:50pm

re: #177 ProLifeLiberal

You used my favorite picture! ^_^

It's my computer background.

I've been using this.

Image: Space_Wolves_1.jpg

183 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:23:14pm

OT:

Bachmann, she who said she'd vote against raising the debt ceiling and that she didn't think it's be a problem, proclaims that she'd work a miracle within first quarter of her presidency:

Bachmann: Improving economy 'won't take that long'

NEWTON, Iowa (AP) — Michele Bachmann declared Friday "it won't take that long" for her to start turning the ailing economy around as president as she competed against other GOP presidential rivals to build support ahead of a key GOP straw poll in Iowa next week.

Four of Bachmann's opponents in the Aug. 13 straw poll in Ames — Tim Pawlenty, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Thad McCotter — later took turns bashing President Barack Obama's record at a Republican Party dinner at a high school in Tiffin and pitching themselves as best suited to defeat him.

Earlier in the day in Newton, Bachmann told reporters the economy would start to improve almost immediately after she becomes president because she would implement conservative economic policies to slash the nation's debt, stop tax increases and cut regulations.

"It won't take that long if we send signals to the marketplace," she said, standing by an earlier comment that the improvement would begin within the first quarter.

"Damn that Obama! He's not the messiah, I am!" *rolls eyes*

184 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:23:14pm

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've been using this.

Image: Space_Wolves_1.jpg

Mine's better.

186 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:24:10pm

re: #184 JasonA

Mine's better.

"The requested content cannot be loaded.
Please try again later."

Seems kind of boring.

187 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:24:40pm

re: #186 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"The requested content cannot be loaded.
Please try again later."

Seems kind of boring.

Hrm. Works for me.

Here:

[Link: www.funnyjunk.com...]

188 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:25:57pm

re: #183 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Bachmann, she who said she'd vote against raising the debt ceiling and that she didn't think it's be a problem, proclaims that she'd work a miracle within first quarter of her presidency:

Bachmann: Improving economy 'won't take that long'

"Damn that Obama! He's not the messiah, I am!" *rolls eyes*

She names conservative policy ideas, but remains economically illiterate. And we cannot afford another economic illiterate as president. We need Mitt Romney.

189 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:27:35pm

re: #184 JasonA

Mine's better.

Big Daddy is a robot, right?

190 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:28:06pm

re: #187 JasonA

Hrm. Works for me.

Here:

[Link: www.funnyjunk.com...]

Eh, I'm bioshocked out.

For me, the quote of the day was "FUCKING GOD DAMN BULLSHIT SPACE WOVES!"

My buddy was not a happy World Eater today.

191 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:28:31pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

She names conservative policy ideas, but remains economically illiterate. And we cannot afford another economic illiterate as president. We need Mitt Romney.

Unfortunately these days, people are voting for the myth rather than the person. I've seen polls that show Perry gaining a lot of ground, even though he hasn't officially stated whether or not he intends to run. This is another "Anybody But..." election, a vote based upon the incumbent's presidency rather than support of the opposition's candidate.

192 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:28:57pm

re: #189 Dark_Falcon

Big Daddy is a robot, right?

Nope. Just some poor soul who's been horribly twisted.

193 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:29:04pm

re: #183 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

OT:

Bachmann, she who said she'd vote against raising the debt ceiling and that she didn't think it's be a problem, proclaims that she'd work a miracle within first quarter of her presidency:

Bachmann: Improving economy 'won't take that long'

"Damn that Obama! He's not the messiah, I am!" *rolls eyes*

She is a miracle worker! She is, "Joan of Bachmann"!

She must have "president" confused with "emperor" or "dictator". Because that's what that would take. Well, I mean on the policy side alone that is.

194 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:29:43pm

I give so little of a fuck, it's like a Black Hole of Giving a Fuck

195 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:30:30pm

re: #189 Dark_Falcon

Big Daddy is a robot, right?

No, he's a member of the old school

196 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:30:55pm

Bachmann makes Palin seem... not really that bad.

197 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:31:33pm

re: #196 BigPapa

Bachmann makes Palin seem... not really that bad.

Bachmann makes Palin look like Spock.

//

198 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:31:36pm

re: #193 Gus 802

She is a miracle worker! She is, "Joan of Bachmann"!

She must have "president" confused with "emperor" or "dictator". Because that's what that would take. Well, I mean on the policy side alone that is.

Ayep. Seriously, Republicans seem to be living in this fantasy world where they're going to sweep the elections next year, take back control over all three houses, and rule by fiat. Democrats thought the same thing back in '08...

199 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:31:38pm

re: #196 BigPapa

Bachmann makes Palin seem... not really that bad.

Bachman is to Palin as Palin is to Romney

200 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:31:42pm

re: #183 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds


"It won't take that long if we send signals to the marketplace,"


"Like what, for example", would be the first question.

201 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:32:19pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

She names conservative policy ideas, but remains economically illiterate. And we cannot afford another economic illiterate as president. We need Mitt Romney.

The economic illiterates are those who pretend to have read the S&P's report while deliberately ignoring everything they said about the Republicans' steadfast refusal to raise revenues. Do you or don't you want to run the country like a business? What kind of successful business model precludes raising revenues?

202 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:32:43pm

re: #200 jaunte

"Like what, for example", would be the first question.

The classics, like a burning bush, voice from the heavens, etc

203 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:32:49pm

re: #199 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bachman is to Palin as Palin is to Romney

Is this going to be in the test?

//

204 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:33:19pm

re: #203 Gus 802

Is this going to be in the test?

//

This is the test.

205 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:35:20pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

We need Mitt Romney like we need Robert Bork back in our lives.

Fixed.

206 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:35:40pm

Bleh. Tired of that garlic smell.

207 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:36:13pm

re: #206 Gus 802

Bleh. Tired of that garlic smell.

Change your shirt then.

208 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:36:33pm

re: #200 jaunte

"Like what, for example", would be the first question.

Apparently, "signals to the marketplace" are code for "Giving the top 2% whatever they want in order to keep/grow their wealth." Thus, such "signals" include further tax cuts, doing away with regulations, giving them no-bid contracts, and so forth.

Of course, Bush sent many such "signals" in his presidency, and he was rewarded with the Great Recession.

209 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:37:07pm

re: #201 goddamnedfrank

The economic illiterates are those who pretend to have read the S&P's report while deliberately ignoring everything they said about the Republicans' steadfast refusal to raise revenues. Do you or don't you want to run the country like a business? What kind of successful business model precludes raising revenues?

You're not going there again, are you? I thought we'd already agreed on some revenue increases I'd accept. And I'll even add one more: I'm willing to look at the tax code. Let's see if there are revenue increasing changes that can be made that will not harm economic productivity. If such changes are doable, I will support them.

210 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:38:48pm

re: #185 goddamnedfrank

Goddamnedfrank, why do you hate Traditional American Values Lightbulbs?

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:42:02pm

re: #189 Dark_Falcon

Big Daddy is a robot, right?

Genetically altered human in an old timey diving suit. AKA "Mr. B", AKA "Mr. Bubbles". Charged with the protection of Little Sisters.

212 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:42:05pm

Personally, the one question I want to ask all the Republican candidates is "How do you intend to deal with Democrat filibusters?" Because if any of them are foolish enough to believe that they're going to be able to enact policy without any opposition, then they're delusional and thus unfit for office.

213 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:42:33pm

This one is for PLL:

The Secret Weapon In Libya

August 6, 2011: A key element in providing effective ground support for rebel fighters in Libya has been AWACS air control aircraft. Normally used to track friendly and enemy aircraft over a combat zone, AWACS has also proved useful as a radio relay, to quickly connect fighter-bombers over Libya with NATO headquarters in Italy and rebel headquarters in eastern Libya, to insure that the target being bombed is not a rebel unit.

Back in March, NATO decided to have an AWACS radar aircraft monitoring Libyan airspace 24/7. The AWACS can fly over international waters and still monitor air activity several hundred kilometers into Libya. This was crucial to maintain the no-fly zone established over the Libyan coastal area (where most of the population lives). AWACS can spot Libyan aircraft taking off, and call in fighters to deal with that problem before the Libyan warplanes can get very far. In addition, AWACS monitors friendly aircraft, to prevent collisions, and to help fighters reach tankers faster.

SNIP

214 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:44:10pm

re: #201 goddamnedfrank

The economic illiterates are those who pretend to have read the S&P's report while deliberately ignoring everything they said about the Republicans' steadfast refusal to raise revenues.

Not fair. I'm an economic illiterate, and I haven't done any of those things.

215 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:46:01pm

re: #209 Dark_Falcon

You're not going there again, are you? I thought we'd already agreed on some revenue increases I'd accept. And I'll even add one more: I'm willing to look at the tax code. Let's see if there are revenue increasing changes that can be made that will not harm economic productivity. If such changes are doable, I will support them.

But your party clearly won't, so they aren't "doable" and your qualified support is thus meaningless. The Republican intransigence is so absolute that S&P cited it in revising their model of economic forecasts to assume that your party won't allow the Bush tax cuts to expire as scheduled. McConnell just flat out admitted that your party held the economy hostage and plans to do it again. You support this shit by voting for it, and you make excuses for it every single day.

216 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:47:13pm

re: #201 goddamnedfrank

The economic illiterates are those who pretend to have read the S&P's report while deliberately ignoring everything they said about the Republicans' steadfast refusal to raise revenues. Do you or don't you want to run the country like a business? What kind of successful business model precludes raising revenues?

Running a country "like a business" is the dumbest idea to come out of Conservatopia since states rights economics. Oh, wait...

217 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:47:39pm

re: #201 goddamnedfrank

The economic illiterates are those who pretend to have read the S&P's report while deliberately ignoring everything they said about the Republicans' steadfast refusal to raise revenues. Do you or don't you want to run the country like a business? What kind of successful business model precludes raising revenues?

To all the use the 'run the company like a business' believers: if you weren't charging enough (taxes) you'd raise prices (taxes).

Unless you went to Limbaugh University.

218 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:47:46pm

re: #212 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, the one question I want to ask all the Republican candidates is "How do you intend to deal with Democrat filibusters?" Because if any of them are foolish enough to believe that they're going to be able to enact policy without any opposition, then they're delusional and thus unfit for office.

Simple, nuclear option. God help us if the Republicans ever regain the Senate because they'll just abolish the filibuster, end of story.

219 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:47:50pm

re: #212 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, the one question I want to ask all the Republican candidates is "How do you intend to deal with Democrat filibusters?" Because if any of them are foolish enough to believe that they're going to be able to enact policy without any opposition, then they're delusional and thus unfit for office.

That and lawsuits brought forth by states against the federal government.

220 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:48:14pm

re: #215 goddamnedfrank

But your party clearly won't, so they aren't "doable" and your qualified support is thus meaningless.

qft

221 Gus  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:49:16pm

re: #209 Dark_Falcon

You're not going there again, are you? I thought we'd already agreed on some revenue increases I'd accept. And I'll even add one more: I'm willing to look at the tax code. Let's see if there are revenue increasing changes that can be made that will not harm economic productivity. If such changes are doable, I will support them.

We already have tax cuts.

222 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:50:12pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

We have twenty-six letters and no accent marks at all! We force the Latin alphabet to do crap it never thought was possible! We use the same bizarre combinations of letters to spell four or five different sounds!

(English is language of great enthusiasm and little planning.)

English is a language that waits in a dark alley and mugs other languages for words and then spells them like an old saxon skald on acid.

223 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:50:26pm

re: #218 goddamnedfrank

Simple, nuclear option. God help us if the Republicans ever regain the Senate because they'll just abolish the filibuster, end of story.

The first instinct was to say that they'd never do that, because the old dogs would know that power is fleeting, that their majority won't last forever, and one day they'll be the ones fighting against a Democrat majority.

Then I remembered that tradition was that debt ceiling increases, while time for a short spat of political theatrics, was something done without second thought. So now, I'm almost convinced that the TPers would happily kill the filibuster without a second thought.

224 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:50:44pm

austinkleon:

Todd Snider tells a funny story about songwriting and songthieving:
225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:51:36pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

We need Mitt Romney.

Too bad Mitt Romney is busying himself with grandstanding on antigay politics.

Personally, I can't wait to see the rank and file GOTP dupes and bigots have to advocate for a candidate they utterly loathe. /Schadenfreude

226 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:52:36pm

Considering the colossal blunders that led to the Great Recession, suggesting that one "run government like a business" ought to be an offense punishable by flogging in the public square.

227 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:52:51pm

30 Seals. Their poor families.

228 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:52:52pm

re: #217 BigPapa

No, no, no. Clearly, the proper way to run a business is to cut expenses at all levels, and continue to do so until you have only one, very poorly made product to sell, or no product at all. Then, everyone prospers.

229 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:53:16pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

No, no, no. Clearly, the proper way to run a business is to cut expenses at all levels, and continue to do so until you have only one, very poorly made product to sell, or no product at all. Then, everyone prospers.

Hey, it worked for the Soviets...

///

230 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:53:20pm

re: #219 Gus 802

That and lawsuits brought forth by states against the federal government.

They're confederates. I can't think of a better term for these dorks.

231 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:53:23pm

re: #222 wlewisiii

English is a language that waits in a dark alley and mugs other languages for words and then spells them like an old saxon skald on acid.

Stupid French thought it could get the upper hand thanks to King William...

232 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:53:24pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

She names conservative policy ideas, but remains economically illiterate. And we cannot afford another economic illiterate as president. We need Mitt Romney.

Mittens - how many ways can I flip flop today?

(I swear there must be something in the Massachusetts water...)

233 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:54:42pm

re: #232 wlewisiii

(I swear there must be something in the Massachusetts water...)

Just don't ask the Kennedys about it.

234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:55:45pm

re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth

No, no, no. Clearly, the proper way to run a business is to cut expenses at all levels, and continue to do so until you have only one, very poorly made product to sell, or no product at all. Then, everyone prospers.

Or!

You could run the government like a business in a bubble!

That way, 6-7 people get to exercise their god-given creative entrepreneurial rights to artificially inflate prices and corner markets, and when the bubble bursts, they'll just move on to the next one in the next country where ever it is!

Anyone who doesn't like it is a socialist and very French and gay!

235 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:56:27pm

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, AWACS have been beyond invaluable with designating targets for the aggressive interventionists, and help with rebel intel.

I probably will try do Libya updates every Sunday now. Fact is, things are moving slower because of a)landmines and b)heat. The last one means that actual fighting and other such action is now limited to roughly 4 hours a day.

So things will move slowly until we get towards fall.

236 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:57:06pm

re: #232 wlewisiii

I don't even really care about the flip-flopping. A person who doesn't change their stance on some things from time to time is not learning, not growing.

Signing that damn pledge, on the other hand... t("t)

237 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:58:34pm

re: #218 goddamnedfrank

Simple, nuclear option. God help us if the Republicans ever regain the Senate because they'll just abolish the filibuster, end of story.

And how many liberals on this blog have advocated ending the filibuster since Obama became president? Quite a few. People only like the filibuster when its their part using it.

238 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:58:47pm

re: #236 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't even really care about the flip-flopping. A person who doesn't change their stance on some things from time to time is not learning, not growing.

Signing that damn pledge, on the other hand... t("t)

Besides, watching a politician run as fast as he can from his greatest achievement in governance makes me giggle every time I think of it.

teehee

239 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:58:52pm

re: #235 ProLifeLiberal

That probably explains why the De Gaulle is going back for basic maintenance now. Not as much need for strikes when the ground guys aren't moving.

240 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:59:40pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

We need to put it back that if you want to filibuster, you actually have to do stupid long speeches on the floor.

241 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:59:47pm

re: #234 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Anyone who doesn't like it is a socialist and very French and gay!

That's the only part I understood. I'm not lying when I say I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to economic issues.

"Checks come in, cash goes out. Never a break from the bills. You can't explain that".

242 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 7:59:52pm

re: #235 ProLifeLiberal

Yeah, AWACS have been beyond invaluable with designating targets for the aggressive interventionists, and help with rebel intel.

I probably will try do Libya updates every Sunday now. Fact is, things are moving slower because of a)landmines and b)heat. The last one means that actual fighting and other such action is now limited to roughly 4 hours a day.

So things will move slowly until we get towards fall.

Also for you:

China Threatens The ISI

August 6, 2011: Pakistan is getting more unwanted publicity about its counter-terrorism operations in Baluchistan (southwest Pakistan), where there is increasing violence by everyone. A growing number of Baluchi tribesmen are turning to violence, often in response to the arrest and murder, by the secret police (ISI, the military intelligence agencies) and military, of suspected tribal rebels. The ISI has increased its use of death squads against tribal rebels. The ISI agents kidnap anti-government Baluchis, apparently question them, and then kill them. Bodies are just dumped in remote areas, sometimes to be found. Meanwhile, the government is unable to stop the continuing violence between Sunni and Shia groups, which leave dozens dead or wounded each month.

If you read both Indian and Pakistani media, you will see numerous reports of Indian abuse of arrest and interrogation powers in Kashmir, and Pakistani abuse in Baluchistan (and throughout the tribal territories). Pakistan appears to be ahead in the number of abuse incidents, and has greater violence problems as a result. The monthly casualties from this sort of thing are 5-10 times higher in Pakistan, compared to India (which has six times as many people). The United States is more concerned about the Taliban sanctuary in Baluchistan, which Pakistan has long insisted did not exist. Not just the Taliban sanctuary, but the continuing war against tribal leaders who oppose the Taliban throughout the tribal territories. Many tribes want no part of the Taliban, but the army refuses to aid all of them.

The American CIA, in order to carry out its orders, has been increasingly at war with its Pakistani equivalent, the ISI. After bin Laden was killed in May, it became known that the CIA was running an intelligence operation (to confirm the presence of bin Laden) without informing the ISI (who probably would have warned bin Laden). Since then, the ISI and the Pakistani government have been at war with the CIA in Pakistan. It’s an undeclared war. Meanwhile, the ISI denies that it is working with al Qaeda, despite a growing pile of evidence to the contrary. The Pakistanis don’t want to go public with this feud, at least not any more than they already are. But the ISI is more openly working against the CIA, while the CIA UAV campaign against Islamic terrorists in the tribal territories continues, despite Pakistani objections. Now Pakistan has another problem, with China. The Chinese are demanding that Chinese Turkish ( Uighur) Islamic terrorists in Pakistan be killed or turned over to China. In this case, the U.S. and China are on the same side. But Pakistan does not want to hunt down the Uighurs, and the ISI chief recently went to China to plead his case. It’s unclear how this will play out.

SNIP

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:00:12pm
244 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:00:32pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

And how many liberals on this blog have advocated ending the filibuster since Obama became president? Quite a few. People only like the filibuster when its their part using it.

Democrats never had the stones to filibuster this many pieces of legislation though.

245 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:01:04pm

re: #222 wlewisiii

English is a language that waits in a dark alley and mugs other languages for words and then spells them like an old saxon skald on acid.

OK, what sounds better "the strait of Lake Erie" or Detroit.

246 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:01:41pm

re: #239 ProLifeLiberal

That probably explains why the De Gaulle is going back for basic maintenance now. Not as much need for strikes when the ground guys aren't moving.

True. Better to do the maintenance now, and have her ready when needed. If things heat up her aircraft can operate from land bases in Sicily.

247 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:02:09pm

re: #244 JasonA

Democrats never had the stones to filibuster this many pieces of legislation though.

My point still stands, though.

248 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:02:28pm

WHEN WAS THIS SITE TAKEN OVER BY NORWEGIANS

/

//applied to a thrift store, interviews next week. a bit of stuttering when talking to the hiring manager i gave the application to didn't help ;_;

249 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:03:33pm

re: #240 ProLifeLiberal

We need to put it back that if you want to filibuster, you actually have to do stupid long speeches on the floor.

Exactly. This two-track system bullshit needs to end. Being able to "filibuster" a bill while continuing on with other work has totally cheapened the concept.

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:03:58pm

re: #222 wlewisiii

English is a language that waits in a dark alley and mugs other languages for words and then spells them like an old saxon skald on acid.

Hope you don't mind, but I "favorited" that.

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:05:09pm

Øyvind Strømmen

Thank you for including a definition of fascism in your essay. It helps a great deal. As you pointed out, it is a much misused word.

252 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:05:23pm

Frum's getting weird. His top story is a guest post by a 21 year old Canadian who just graduated. Can't find a job in his field, so he had to find one bussing tables. And he bitches and moans about it. It ends with him celebrating leaving the job. Without having found a new one. Bizarre.

253 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:06:00pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

If China decides to break off in any big way from Pakistan, it will be beyond great for India.

The two nations that threaten it the most now at odds, combined with the fact that India has very good relations with the Central Asian states (and a base in one of them) puts India in a stronger position than either.

Also, while Russia is close to China, they are closer to India. They do so much cooperation on military tech its amazing. It's why I'm not worried about Russia. When it comes down to it, Russia breaks to India.

Also, the little matter of rampant fear and racism against Chinese in Russia.

254 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:06:46pm

re: #243 ggt

Okay, that shirt is awesome.

Back when I used to party, whenever any of the party people would ask me how many I've had, I'd always say "three".

Seeing I was clearly lit up "Only three"?

"Well, I only count up to my third. After that I stop giving a fuck, and stop counting".

255 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:07:33pm

re: #145 wozzablog

It's really upsetting for me because the guy who was shot (which has sparked all this) - while being a mate of an fb pal - was known to the police and under surveillance on suspision of going to kill his cousins murderer - this is not the guy you go to bat for as a rioting mob.

Rioting mobs are usually just waiting for a convenient excuse. We had a guy shot by police here in SF a couple weeks ago. He was a scumbag. A bunch of people went nuts anyway, because this triggered their feelings about police and the black community, not because they cared about this man.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:07:42pm

re: #254 Slumbering Behemoth

I don't party anymore either, but I thought the shirt was worth sharing.

257 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:08:11pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon

Considering that Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica are basically giant stationary aircraft carriers, the effect on operations should be close to bupkis.

258 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:08:36pm

re: #257 ProLifeLiberal

Considering that Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica are basically giant stationary aircraft carriers, the effect on operations should be close to bupkis.

The islands?

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:09:36pm

re: #188 Dark_Falcon

She names conservative policy ideas, but remains economically illiterate. And we cannot afford another economic illiterate as president. We need Mitt Romney.

I'm currently a big Christie fan, since he told the creeping shariah nuts to eff off.

260 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:10:58pm

re: #258 ggt

Yup.

I think we said something similar of Great Britain in World War II.

261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:11:19pm

re: #216 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Running a country "like a business" is the dumbest idea to come out of Conservatopia since states rights economics. Oh, wait...

I am a capitalist at heart. Even I know governments aren't supposed to turn a profit. That's why I don't work for non-profits. I just can't think any other way.

So, I totally understand the cognitive dissonance when it comes to the concept "run it like a business". That would be the only way I would be able to do it --and it wouldn't work.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:11:34pm

re: #240 ProLifeLiberal

We need to put it back that if you want to filibuster, you actually have to do stupid long speeches on the floor.

Remember the West Wing episode, where the guy filibusters?

263 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:11:42pm

re: #253 ProLifeLiberal

If China decides to break off in any big way from Pakistan, it will be beyond great for India.

The two nations that threaten it the most now at odds, combined with the fact that India has very good relations with the Central Asian states (and a base in one of them) puts India in a stronger position than either.

Also, while Russia is close to China, they are closer to India. They do so much cooperation on military tech its amazing. It's why I'm not worried about Russia. When it comes down to it, Russia breaks to India.

Also, the little matter of rampant fear and racism against Chinese in Russia.

Many Russians don't like the Chinese immigrants in Siberia. Or at least the men don't like them. The Chinese work harder, drink far less alcohol, and spend and save their money wisely. For that reason, some Russian women now would prefer a Chinese husband, And there are many drunks and losers in Russia who don't like such a public reminder that they are drunks and losers. Being racist and spreading conspiracy theories is easier than getting off the sauce, finding a decent job, and acting like the kind of man the a good woman wants.

264 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:12:36pm

re: #196 BigPapa

Bachmann makes Palin seem... not really that bad.

Maybe, that is her purpose.

265 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:12:39pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm currently a big Christie fan, since he told the creeping shariah nuts to eff off.

Christie is a good egg, that's a fact. He's a thoroughly sane person.

266 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:12:41pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

I haven't trusted the ISI before the war on terror started. However, they have done nothing but undermine everyone's effort in fighting the Taliban, et al, while providing training, material, and intelligence to terror cells. I thought for sure that India would've retaliated against Pakistan for the Mumbai terror attacks.

Should we pullout completely from Afghanistan I do hope our drone technology reaches a level that we can launch attacks from around the world or at least from Aircraft Carriers stationed within the Indian Ocean.

267 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:12:45pm

re: #256 ggt

I don't party anymore either, but I thought the shirt was worth sharing.

I'm gonna be forty pretty soon here. Can you imagine how pathetic I would look at some kegger-house party.

I mean sure, I could still out drink and out party all the twenty-somethings, but I'd look pretty pathetic doing it.

268 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:14:49pm

re: #267 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm gonna be forty pretty soon here. Can you imagine how pathetic I would look at some kegger-house party.

I mean sure, I could still out drink and out party all the twenty-somethings, but I'd look pretty pathetic doing it.

You see people our age out there and yes, they look stupid.

Always thankful it isn't me.

269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:15:28pm

re: #237 Dark_Falcon

And how many liberals on this blog have advocated ending the filibuster since Obama became president? Quite a few.

How many?

People only like the filibuster when its their part using it.

If the dumb, stupid socon bigots in the tea party congress want a filibuster, let them work for it.

270 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:15:34pm

re: #257 ProLifeLiberal

Considering that Sicily, Sardinia, and Corsica are basically giant stationary aircraft carriers

...which makes me think the war effort would be far more successful if said region could find a way to weaponize Casu Marzu.

271 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:16:08pm

re: #270 publicityStunted

...which makes me think the war effort would be far more successful if said region could find a way to weaponize Casu Marzu.

germ warfare is illegal.

272 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:16:35pm

re: #267 Slumbering Behemoth

Wear leather, grow your hair out, get a bunch of tattoos, and ride a Harley Davidson. I don't think people care too much about age at a biker rally.

273 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:16:49pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist
I found CL's page on Gov Christie. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:16:55pm

re: #270 publicityStunted

...which makes me think the war effort would be far more successful if said region could find a way to weaponize Casu Marzu.

Has to be the only cheese that is not suitable for vegetarians who eat dairy (like me)

275 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:17:07pm

re: #270 publicityStunted

When disturbed, the larvae can launch themselves for distances up to 15 centimetres (6 in). Some people clear the larvae from the cheese before consuming while others do not.

OH GOD WHAT

276 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:17:52pm

re: #266 Idle Drifter

I'm quite sure we can find some sort of deal we can work out with India or Bangladesh for Aircraft Carriers.

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Considering life in Russia, I can understand how Men act like that. Since the fall of the USSR, things have not gotten better for 70-80% of the populace. There's a reason we always talk about Oligarchy in Russia, you know. And China has proven a bad streak in recent years, with the South China Sea, Japan and Korea, and forcing Tajikstan to cede a good chunk of land to them.

277 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:18:09pm

re: #270 publicityStunted

...which makes me think the war effort would be far more successful if said region could find a way to weaponize Casu Marzu.

Using germ warfare makes the use of nuclear weapons legal even by allied forces.

278 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:18:40pm
279 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:19:31pm

re: #270 publicityStunted

Just drop it out of plane in 100+ pound bits, and your done.

I am NOT looking at the site. I don't want to puke.

280 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:19:35pm

re: #261 ggt

I am a capitalist at heart. Even I know governments aren't supposed to turn a profit. That's why I don't work for non-profits. I just can't think any other way.

So, I totally understand the cognitive dissonance when it comes to the concept "run it like a business". That would be the only way I would be able to do it --and it wouldn't work.

No it wouldn't.

We've had governor after governor come up with that mantra, "We need to run the state like a bidness!", and it's epic fail every time they try.

Why? It's very simple - government isn't a business. It's government. It's completely different, and the mind set must be different if government is to effectively perform the functions it's obligated to perform.

281 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:20:20pm

re: #280 reine.de.tout

No it wouldn't.

We've had governor after governor come up with that mantra, "We need to run the state like a bidness!", and it's epic fail every time they try.

Why? It's very simple - government isn't a business. It's government. It's completely different, and the mind set must be different if government is to effectively perform the functions it's obligated to perform.

Yeah, I can't compute that.

Therefore, I don't work in government.

282 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:20:59pm

re: #270 publicityStunted

So who gets to cut the cheese.

283 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:21:23pm

re: #282 Idle Drifter

So who gets to cut the cheese.

The Orks.

284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:21:57pm

re: #261 ggt

I am a capitalist at heart. Even I know governments aren't supposed to turn a profit. That's why I don't work for non-profits. I just can't think any other way.

So, I totally understand the cognitive dissonance when it comes to the concept "run it like a business". That would be the only way I would be able to do it --and it wouldn't work.

Capitalism isn't the problem, the problem is these delusional cons who have pie-in-the-sky ideas about capitalism. They treat the concept of "a business" and "markets" as if they are God, even though plenty of businesses come and go, succeed and fail.

Any dork who truly believes a government should be run this way needs to move to some stateless country like Afghanistan or some dictatorship where the country props up the business ventures of a couple rich families, since that seems to be their ideal.

285 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:24:06pm

re: #284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Capitalism isn't the problem, the problem is these delusional cons who have pie-in-the-sky ideas about capitalism. They treat the concept of "a business" and "markets" as if they are God, even though plenty of businesses come and go, succeed and fail.

Any dork who truly believes a government should be run this way needs to move to some stateless country like Afghanistan or some dictatorship where the country props up the business ventures of a couple rich families, since that seems to be their ideal.

I can't seem to get past the concept of "make money". Everything one does in business is with the end goal of "making money". Success or failure is defined by profit and loss.

Not-for-profits, including government, don't work that way.

I kinda freaks me out.

286 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:25:35pm

re: #276 ProLifeLiberal

I'm quite sure we can find some sort of deal we can work out with India or Bangladesh for Aircraft Carriers.

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Considering life in Russia, I can understand how Men act like that. Since the fall of the USSR, things have not gotten better for 70-80% of the populace. There's a reason we always talk about Oligarchy in Russia, you know. And China has proven a bad streak in recent years, with the South China Sea, Japan and Korea, and forcing Tajikstan to cede a good chunk of land to them.

I can understand how people can act like that too. Of course, to understand is not condone, but you already know that.

287 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:27:52pm

re: #268 ggt

You see people our age out there and yes, they look stupid.

Always thankful it isn't me.

A comedian was talking about being in his late 30's and still going to metal concerts. While going to one show he was stopped by security at the door, which pointed to his studded belt and chain wallet and said "Sir, I can't let you take those into the concert".

"Why, because they could be used as weapons"?

"No, sir. Because you're too old to be wearing that crap".

288 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:29:26pm

re: #285 ggt

I can't seem to get past the concept of "make money". Everything one does in business is with the end goal of "making money". Success or failure is defined by profit and loss.

Not-for-profits, including government, don't work that way.

I kinda freaks me out.

I've worked at and consulted for many nonprofits. The model is similar. The business is beholden to the owners/stockholders, a nonprofit is beholden to the donors, the government is beholden to the taxpayers.

289 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:30:29pm

re: #286 Dark_Falcon

True, but I see China in a very negative light.

BTW, India is buying Rafales for its Carriers, and Typhoons for Land Fighters, if the sources on Wikipedia are to be believed.

Can the F-35, and replace it with the Rafale, if necessary.

Which I don't think it is. We can do what the Russians did to the SU-27 to the F-15, F-16, and F-18: Update and customize models. I'm sure we can find a way with American Ingenuity to make these aircraft stealthier.

290 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:32:59pm

re: #272 Idle Drifter

Wear leather, grow your hair out, get a bunch of tattoos, and ride a Harley Davidson. I don't think people care too much about age at a biker rally.

Heh. I'm not much for that kind of scene.

291 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:34:41pm

Excuse me for being a little slow. It's been one of those days, little gray cells are just kicking in.

A Governor of a State in our country held a Prayer Revival of 30,000 Christians? During his active term?

If a Muslim or Pagan had done this, what would be the reaction?

How much did each of these people pay to get in?

292 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:34:53pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

True, but I see China in a very negative light.

BTW, India is buying Rafales for its Carriers, and Typhoons for Land Fighters, if the sources on Wikipedia are to be believed.

Can the F-35, and replace it with the Rafale, if necessary.

Which I don't think it is. We can do what the Russians did to the SU-27 to the F-15, F-16, and F-18: Update and customize models. I'm sure we can find a way with American Ingenuity to make these aircraft stealthier.

I'd like to try to save the F-35 first. I want to take a hard look at the program, to see if it can be brought to rights. If it can't, then it goes. But we're cutting too many weapons programs already. We need to get at least one new "big war" system into large-scale service, just to prove we can. I want that to be the F-35, if it can be done.

293 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:35:37pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

I'd like to try to save the F-35 first. I want to take a hard look at the program, to see if it can be brought to rights. If it can't, then it goes. But we're cutting too many weapons programs already. We need to get at least one new "big war" system into large-scale service, just to prove we can. I want that to be the F-35, if it can be done.

You guys start these conversations and my eyes glaze over like they do when Charles posts about computer stuff.

294 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:36:07pm

re: #291 ggt

How much did each of these people pay to get in?

Now that is a good question.

295 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:36:48pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

Now that is a good question.

And did he pass the collection plate as well?

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:37:36pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

Now that is a good question.

I think this is a major violation of the Establishment Clause. He is walking a fine line.

297 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:37:57pm

re: #293 ggt

You guys start these conversations and my eyes glaze over like they do when Charles posts about computer stuff.

Sorry, ggt. I do find military system very interesting, though. The fact that there are people here who share my interest is part of why I started posting here and part of why I've stayed.

298 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:38:07pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

We need to get at least one new "big war" system into large-scale service, just to prove we can.

Ridiculous mentality.

So some government contractor makes a big, butch set of killing machines. What is that supposed to prove?

299 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:38:18pm

re: #297 Dark_Falcon

Sorry, ggt. I do find military system very interesting, though. The fact that there are people here who share my interest is part of why I started posting here and part of why I've stayed.

No problem, just feel bad I can't join in.

300 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:38:25pm

re: #291 ggt


If a Muslim or Pagan had done this, what would be the reaction?

I don't know, but now I'm envisioning Rick Perry in robes, with antlers and greenery on his head, dancing.

Thanks a lot.

301 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:38:55pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

True, but I see China in a very negative light.

BTW, India is buying Rafales for its Carriers, and Typhoons for Land Fighters, if the sources on Wikipedia are to be believed.

Can the F-35, and replace it with the Rafale, if necessary.

Which I don't think it is. We can do what the Russians did to the SU-27 to the F-15, F-16, and F-18: Update and customize models. I'm sure we can find a way with American Ingenuity to make these aircraft stealthier.

Look up the Israeli F-15I and F-16I and the US F-18E, F, and G. We can update some of our fleet, however it'll be expensive either way. The F-35 program is running overdue and the Marines need a fighter to replace their aging fleet of AV-8Bs, F/A-18C/Ds, and EA-6Es. The F-35 has several features that the old fleets would need to be retro fitted. It's a tough sell either way.

302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:39:01pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know, but now I'm envisioning Rick Perry in robes, with antlers and greenery on his head, dancing.

Thanks a lot.

comic relief isn't a good thing?

303 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:39:39pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

True, but I see China in a very negative light.

BTW, India is buying Rafales for its Carriers, and Typhoons for Land Fighters, if the sources on Wikipedia are to be believed.

Can the F-35, and replace it with the Rafale, if necessary.

Which I don't think it is. We can do what the Russians did to the SU-27 to the F-15, F-16, and F-18: Update and customize models. I'm sure we can find a way with American Ingenuity to make these aircraft stealthier.



The Russians have moved on from that.

304 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:40:35pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

True, but I see China in a very negative light.

BTW, India is buying Rafales for its Carriers, and Typhoons for Land Fighters, if the sources on Wikipedia are to be believed.

Can the F-35, and replace it with the Rafale, if necessary.

Which I don't think it is. We can do what the Russians did to the SU-27 to the F-15, F-16, and F-18: Update and customize models. I'm sure we can find a way with American Ingenuity to make these aircraft stealthier.

That's pretty good, last I'd heard, India was buying MiG-29Ks for their carriers. Did that deal fall through?

305 jaunte  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:41:01pm

Offered on Ebay: Philp K. Dick's Bible
[Link: cgi.ebay.com...]

306 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:41:06pm

re: #294 Slumbering Behemoth

Now that is a good question.

It's supposed to be free admission. I'm very familiar with that set of Christianity -- were my parents alive they could have easily have been endorsees or invitees. But I want to know who is funding them.

Probably the same stealth Citizens United bunch of bigots donating to Perry but it's hard to tell at present.

307 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:41:10pm

re: #292 Dark_Falcon

At this point, I don't see an issue. I don't think we will be able to drive the costs down.

However, I did learn that the Rafale is a better Aircraft than I thought. The Super Hornet has more gun ammo, but that's it.

The Defense Bloat must be cut. For now, the best solution is talking to nations that are closs allies (France, UK, Sweden) about being able to get the rights to build their weapons here. We have to drive costs down from this massive height.

308 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:41:10pm

re: #296 ggt

I think this is a major violation of the Establishment Clause. He is walking a fine line.

Did he limit attendance to Christians?
I know the rally itself was heavily Christian-oriented.

My guess is that he has a bevy of attorneys and advisors who let him know exactly how far he could go. The whole thing was most unseemly at the very least. Just way over the top, and not appropriate. But he probably knew exactly what the limits are and made sure to stay in 'em.

309 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:41:12pm

re: #303 laZardo

So has the Chinese. J-20.

310 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:41:45pm

re: #289 ProLifeLiberal

True, but I see China in a very negative light.

BTW, India is buying Rafales for its Carriers, and Typhoons for Land Fighters, if the sources on Wikipedia are to be believed.

Can the F-35, and replace it with the Rafale, if necessary.

Which I don't think it is. We can do what the Russians did to the SU-27 to the F-15, F-16, and F-18: Update and customize models. I'm sure we can find a way with American Ingenuity to make these aircraft stealthier.

We could quite easily. That's the problem. They can't steal as much money from the taxpayers if they don't build new planes.

311 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:42:22pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know, but now I'm envisioning Rick Perry in robes, with antlers and greenery on his head, dancing.

Thanks a lot.

hehe.

312 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:42:40pm

re: #303 laZardo


The Russians have moved on from that.

I'm no more worried about that than I am about the Chinese 5th generation fighter. The Russian plane will be few and far between, built mostly for the elite squadrons, with the rest being composed of updated 4th and 4.5th generation fighters. While the Chinese plane will be a cheap knock-off that's basically last generation tech shoved into a shell that looks "modern."

313 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:43:44pm

re: #312 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

While the Chinese plane will be a cheap knock-off that's basically last generation tech shoved into a shell that looks "modern."

It worked for Korean cars. HEYOO~

///i'm sorry

314 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:44:10pm

re: #303 laZardo

To a point, but a massive number of parts on that things are interchangeable between the Su-27 Class and T-50.

You can see it in the cost, where it is half that of the F-35, and 1/4th that of the F-22.

Something is terribly wrong with procurement cost in this nation's military, and government overall.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:44:18pm

re: #308 reine.de.tout

Did he limit attendance to Christians?
I know the rally itself was heavily Christian-oriented.

My guess is that he has a bevy of attorneys and advisors who let him know exactly how far he could go. The whole thing was most unseemly at the very least. Just way over the top, and not appropriate. But he probably knew exactly what the limits are and made sure to stay in 'em.

I don't imagine that non-Christians couldn't get in, but it was clearly labeled as a Christian event.

Which would be fine, except, the Governor.

316 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:45:07pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

317 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:45:39pm

re: #312 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

An Indian Air General said something similar.

Of course, some utz said he's just jealous, because India is no longer dominant in air.

That's right. India passed us in that regard. I remember hearing of a joint exercise. They were better.

318 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:46:01pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't imagine that non-Christians couldn't get in, but it was clearly labeled as a Christian event.

Which would be fine, except, the Governor.

Agreed.
Was not the thing for him to be involved in.

319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:46:59pm

re: #308 reine.de.tout

Did he limit attendance to Christians?
I know the rally itself was heavily Christian-oriented.

They get around this by posting either creeds or other statements of belief. That way they can ensure that basically only their own echo chamber will want to show up. Only a certain subset of xians would want to be associated with these beliefs. [Link: theresponseusa.com...]

320 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:47:58pm

re: #319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They get around this by posting either creeds or other statements of belief. That way they can ensure that basically only their own echo chamber will want to show up. Only a certain subset of xians would want to be associated with these beliefs. [Link: theresponseusa.com...]

ah!

321 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:48:16pm

re: #314 ProLifeLiberal

To a point, but a massive number of parts on that things are interchangeable between the Su-27 Class and T-50.

You can see it in the cost, where it is half that of the F-35, and 1/4th that of the F-22.

Something is terribly wrong with procurement cost in this nation's military, and government overall.

Part of the problem is exemplified in the F-35, namely a reliance on sub-contracting to make a program "axe-proof." Companies now take entire systems or small parts and farm them out to companies spread across numerous Congressional districts, so that they can then claim that killing the main program will kill jobs in all those districts.

Problem comes when those sub-contractors can't meet deadlines or produce sub-standard parts, leading to problems on the assembly line as parts have to be waited on or worked on just to bring them up to spec. That leads to cost overruns, quality control issues, and ballooning weight as substitutions are made.

322 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:48:31pm

re: #312 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Forgot to mention. Russia is working with India on that plane. India will get a version with India-made tech. China has big disadvantage.

re: #313 laZardo

But the Korean car is still better than the Chinese car. Have you seen the Crash Tests for Chinese Cars? Good God.

323 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:48:31pm

re: #300 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know, but now I'm envisioning Rick Perry in robes, with antlers and greenery on his head, dancing.

Thanks a lot.

He does have the look of a B-movie villain, doesn't he?

324 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:50:27pm

re: #321 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

This needs to be stopped.

Now!

325 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:50:42pm

re: #319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They get around this by posting either creeds or other statements of belief. That way they can ensure that basically only their own echo chamber will want to show up. Only a certain subset of xians would want to be associated with these beliefs. [Link: theresponseusa.com...]

ah, yeah.

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:51:29pm

The Theocracy of Texas?

327 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:52:03pm

re: #318 reine.de.tout

Agreed.
Was not the thing for him to be involved in.

I know I saw something about this, but it's a bit convoluted.

Perry Prayer Event Faces New Criticism
By ERIK ECKHOLM

Gov. Rick Perry’s call for a “day of prayer and fasting on behalf of our troubled nation,” which has been criticized for being exclusively Christian, is open to people of any faith — “who will feel the love, grace and warmth of Jesus Christ in that assembly hall,” the event’s chief spokesman explained on Monday in a statement that provoked new charges that the event is intended to convert non-Christians.
[Link: thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com...]

328 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:52:49pm

After working with the AV-8B in the Marines and learning the cost of maintenance in time, material, and man hours I am all for its replacement. There's a reason we called them North Carolina Lawn Darts. Replacing the engine alone or to recover a dropped tool in the engine requires overhead cranes for the top fuselage and the engine. They are a pain to maintain, dangerous to fly, the gun on them was useless for the American version, short range, too slow, the IR signature screams shoot here, etc. I could go on for a couple pages.

329 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:53:05pm

re: #314 ProLifeLiberal

To a point, but a massive number of parts on that things are interchangeable between the Su-27 Class and T-50.

You can see it in the cost, where it is half that of the F-35, and 1/4th that of the F-22.

Something is terribly wrong with procurement cost in this nation's military, and government overall.

One thing that kills our weapons programs is that they're treated as jobs programs. It can be impossible to rationalize or streamline production, because jobs will be lost.

But even worse is contractors putting out low-ball bids to win the contract to build a system then jacking up the costs. It sends costs soaring, so we buy less units, thus driving the per-unit cost up and making the project a boondoggle.

What the F-35 needs is a BRAC (Base Realignment And Closure)-type process. A non-partisan committee will review all the evidence and make a decision, with a moderate bias towards getting the fighter into production. The way forward laid out by the committee then gets an up-or-down vote in both houses, to eliminate shenanigans. I see this as the best way forward.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:53:48pm

re: #327 marjoriemoon

I know I saw something about this, but it's a bit convoluted.

From your link:

“Gov. Perry has every right to practice his own faith, but he has no right to use his official position to try to convert others,” said Michael Keenan, president of People for the American Way

EXACTLY!

331 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:54:12pm

re: #321 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Part of the problem is exemplified in the F-35, namely a reliance on sub-contracting to make a program "axe-proof." Companies now take entire systems or small parts and farm them out to companies spread across numerous Congressional districts, so that they can then claim that killing the main program will kill jobs in all those districts.

Problem comes when those sub-contractors can't meet deadlines or produce sub-standard parts, leading to problems on the assembly line as parts have to be waited on or worked on just to bring them up to spec. That leads to cost overruns, quality control issues, and ballooning weight as substitutions are made.

Hence, the "complex" in military-industrial complex.

332 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:54:51pm

re: #330 ggt

From your link:

EXACTLY!

People for the American Way... are they the ones who does those feel-good commercials?

333 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:55:22pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

One thing that kills our weapons programs is that they're treated as jobs programs. It can be impossible to rationalize or streamline production, because jobs will be lost.

But even worse is contractors putting out low-ball bids to win the contract to build a system then jacking up the costs. It sends costs soaring, so we buy less units, thus driving the per-unit cost up and making the project a boondoggle.

What the F-35 needs is a BRAC (Base Realignment And Closure)-type process. A non-partisan committee will review all the evidence and make a decision, with a moderate bias towards getting the fighter into production. The way forward laid out by the committee then gets an up-or-down vote in both houses, to eliminate shenanigans. I see this as the best way forward.

I was in agreement up to the point of bias in favor of the project. If anything, the bias should be towards cutting it, with the objective of the committee being to find reasons not to do so. If they fail to do that, while in the process bringing down costs and pushing up delivery times, then the program automatically gets the axe.

334 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:55:29pm

Gov Perry using his official position to discriminate against other Texas and Americans?

Anti-homosexual, anti-nonchristians, anti-women

There are so many ways this is wrong, I can't begin to ennumerate.

335 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:55:48pm

re: #329 Dark_Falcon

Military Procurement /= Jobs Program. Not directed at you, directed at putzballs elsewhere.

i would argue that the stupidly increasing cost is actually a threat to our national security in some ways. Because we can't maintain what we have, or we have to compensate by getting less ammo.

336 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:55:56pm

re: #332 marjoriemoon

People for the American Way... are they the ones who does those feel-good commercials?

I can't keep all these "feel good" organizational names straight.

337 Idle Drifter  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:57:16pm

Good night, all.

338 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:58:08pm

re: #335 ProLifeLiberal

Military Procurement /= Jobs Program. Not directed at you, directed at putzballs elsewhere.

i would argue that the stupidly increasing cost is actually a threat to our national security in some ways. Because we can't maintain what we have, or we have to compensate by getting less ammo.

Or not waging wars that we have no business waging.

*HRRRMMMHRMM*

339 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:58:19pm

re: #309 Idle Drifter

So has the Chinese. J-20.

China will probably build more prototypes of that one, not to mention production numbers, than the Russians will build total, I'll bet.

340 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 8:59:56pm

re: #336 ggt

I can't keep all these "feel good" organizational names straight.

I think they are. I think that's the logo, but I could be mixing them up. They're against the rally.

[Link: www.pfaw.org...]

Seems like a liberal organization which is weird by the name.

341 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:00:16pm

re: #327 marjoriemoon

I know I saw something about this, but it's a bit convoluted.

Just all wrong for a politician to be doing.

342 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:00:47pm

re: #247 Dark_Falcon

My point still stands, though.

No it doesn't, you're comparing inconsequential unnamed bloggers to members of Congress. It's pure false equivalency, meaningless tripe. The last time the nuclear option was seriously threatened was by Republican Bill Frist in 2005.

343 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:01:03pm

re: #334 ggt

Gov Perry using his official position to discriminate against other Texas and Americans?

Anti-homosexual, anti-nonchristians, anti-women

There are so many ways this is wrong, I can't begin to ennumerate.

It's very innovative--a Texas political BBQ with no BBQ.

344 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:02:04pm

re: #341 reine.de.tout

Just all wrong for a politician to be doing.

What would have been interesting is an interfaith rally with a panel of all faiths discussing policy.

345 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:02:17pm

re: #343 Decatur Deb

It's very innovative--a Texas political BBQ with no BBQ.

Frankly, it scares the shit out of me.

The Queen of England, who is actually head of a church, doesn't even do such things.

346 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:02:46pm

re: #344 marjoriemoon

What would have been interesting is an interfaith rally with a panel of all faiths discussing policy.

Yeah, but that wouldn't have garnered him much in the way of political contributions.

347 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:03:19pm

re: #340 marjoriemoon

I think they are. I think that's the logo, but I could be mixing them up. They're against the rally.

[Link: www.pfaw.org...]

Seems like a liberal organization which is weird by the name.

This is the growth of Norman Lear's lib group--the creator of Archie Bunker. They've always been overtly Hollywood Progressive.

348 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:04:32pm

re: #346 ggt

Yeah, but that wouldn't have garnered him much in the way of political contributions.

Yea, the governor needn't be concerned for people who don't think like him.

SHOW ME DA MONEY!

349 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:04:46pm

re: #333 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I was in agreement up to the point of bias in favor of the project. If anything, the bias should be towards cutting it, with the objective of the committee being to find reasons not to do so. If they fail to do that, while in the process bringing down costs and pushing up delivery times, then the program automatically gets the axe.

The thing is we've sunk in so much money already, and like I said, I think getting a big-war system into service is important. But we can compromise and say 'no bias'. I can deal with that.

It's the commission outline that's truly important. Because no matter what, the F-35 program is a mess and fixing it will result in job losses. Thus we need a decision body that will focus on big picture, because in many cases Congress really can't. If their constituents shout, "They're tryin' to take ma' job away!" a Congressman has to try to intervene. If they were to support a job loss in their district, they'd be booted in the next election. Thus the BRAC-type commission.

350 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:05:29pm

re: #344 marjoriemoon

What would have been interesting is an interfaith rally with a panel of all faiths discussing policy.

YES.
That would have been interesting, and informative.

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:05:34pm

re: #348 marjoriemoon

Yea, the governor needn't be concerned for people who don't think like him.

SHOW ME DA MONEY!

I'm not at all convinced this was about G-d or the good of the Country. This was about votes and money.

352 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:06:35pm

re: #335 ProLifeLiberal

Military Procurement /= Jobs Program. Not directed at you, directed at putzballs elsewhere.

i would argue that the stupidly increasing cost is actually a threat to our national security in some ways. Because we can't maintain what we have, or we have to compensate by getting less ammo.

Quite Concur.

353 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:07:27pm

re: #345 ggt

Frankly, it scares the shit out of me.

The Queen of England, who is actually head of a church, doesn't even do such things.

Do you know how many anglicans it takes to change a light bulb?
One to get the ladder.
One to mix the martini's.
One to get together the 7 others on the memorial guild to reminisce about how much more beautiful the old light bulb was.

354 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:07:51pm

re: #338 laZardo

I agree on Iraq, and Afghanistan while worthwhile, was always hopeless, because of Pakistan's influence.

Libya though is quite okay though.

And beyond cheap. It would take decades, at the very least, to accrue a cost even remotely near Afghanistan as of now.

355 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:08:36pm

re: #347 Decatur Deb

This is the growth of Norman Lear's lib group--the creator of Archie Bunker. They've always been overtly Hollywood Progressive.

I did not know that!

I know Norman Lear. The God of sitcom. Archie (et al) was a staple in my home.

I'm not against those commercials, but you usually see them connected to a religion.

356 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:09:17pm

I have to go to bed.

Have a great evening all!

357 reine.de.tout  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:10:29pm

re: #347 Decatur Deb

This is the growth of Norman Lear's lib group--the creator of Archie Bunker. They've always been overtly Hollywood Progressive.

Here's what they said:

Texas Gov. Rick Perry today held The Response prayer rally, an event he organized with the the American Family Association, a group with a history of intolerance toward gays and lesbians, Muslims, Native Americans and progressives.

I was with 'em up until the very end, where they group in "progressives" with those other groups. Not the same thing. I had to laugh, actually.

The governor should not be associating with groups intolerant toward citizens of any faith, race, creed, etc etc - but IMO, by definition, a politician with a stated political philosophy is intolerant of other political philosophies. I mean, otherwise what would be the point?

358 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:11:14pm

re: #354 ProLifeLiberal

I agree on Iraq, and Afghanistan while worthwhile, was always hopeless, because of Pakistan's influence.

Libya though is quite okay though.

And beyond cheap. It would take decades, at the very least, to accrue a cost even remotely near Afghanistan as of now.

It's still in the same "war footing" though. A combination of less foreign presence (air-conditioning money going to projects instead) and less bureaucracy would mean more efficient technology development.

359 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:11:42pm

re: #354 ProLifeLiberal

To be more precise, in 4-5 months, this has cost about $700 million.

Afghanistan has cost over $700 Billion. A figure 1000 times higher.

For Libya to reach $700 billion, at current cost increase, it would take 416 years.

The US, as of this year, is 235 years old.

360 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:12:01pm

re: #350 reine.de.tout

YES.
That would have been interesting, and informative.

Not gonna happen from the states rights confederate contingent.

361 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:13:17pm

re: #347 Decatur Deb

This is the growth of Norman Lear's lib group--the creator of Archie Bunker. They've always been overtly Hollywood Progressive.

Around for about 30 years, iirc.

362 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:13:36pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Here's what they said:

I was with 'em up until the very end, where they group in "progressives" with those other groups. Not the same thing. I had to laugh, actually.

The governor should not be associating with groups intolerant toward citizens of any faith, race, creed, etc etc - but IMO, by definition, a politician with a stated political philosophy is intolerant of other political philosophies. I mean, otherwise what would be the point?

Also: All of those categories save the last are ones into which people are placed by means outside themselves (I believe they are placed into those categories by God, but I understand that others here do not (hence my phrasing)). Progressives have chosen to be progressives. Thus they are not the same type of thing.

363 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:13:46pm

re: #358 laZardo

And where is the air conditioning for Libya?

364 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:15:11pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Here's what they said:

I was with 'em up until the very end, where they group in "progressives" with those other groups. Not the same thing. I had to laugh, actually.

The governor should not be associating with groups intolerant toward citizens of any faith, race, creed, etc etc - but IMO, by definition, a politician with a stated political philosophy is intolerant of other political philosophies. I mean, otherwise what would be the point?

The AFA types see and deal with Progressive/Lib as a competing religion. Of course they think of Home Depot as a competing religion. Not a good use of religion.

365 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:15:31pm

re: #363 ProLifeLiberal

And where is the air conditioning for Libya?

That'll come after we "liberate" it.

366 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:15:47pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Here's what they said:

I was with 'em up until the very end, where they group in "progressives" with those other groups. Not the same thing. I had to laugh, actually.

The governor should not be associating with groups intolerant toward citizens of any faith, race, creed, etc etc - but IMO, by definition, a politician with a stated political philosophy is intolerant of other political philosophies. I mean, otherwise what would be the point?

That's true, although knowing the AFA, I think we're probably past 'progressives have lousy ideas about taxation' and straight through to 'progressives are plotting to destroy America and force your children to be gay for Moleman.'

367 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:17:05pm

re: #366 SanFranciscoZionist

gay for Moleman.'

welp

there goes my boehner

368 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:18:29pm

re: #334 ggt

Gov Perry using his official position to discriminate against other Texas and Americans?

Anti-homosexual, anti-nonchristians, anti-women

There are so many ways this is wrong, I can't begin to ennumerate.

Wrong, but rooted in confederate conservatism. It's only been a generation since it fell away from being the norm. Only thing new about this crowd is the multiracial/racial reconcilation aspect. That, they stole directly from the left.

They've been working on that angle for at least 30 years - I know, because I grew up a part of it.

369 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:19:18pm

re: #365 laZardo

Not everything is the same every-time. Kosovo and Bosnia have cost little, if anything.

There are a couple differences here from Afghanistan and Iraq-

1)Rebels requested strike aid to protect them. Later expanded to help topple that monster Qaddafi.

2)UN resolution was airtight on troops. NATO+Sweden would have to go to the UN for approval on expansion to ground troops.

370 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:20:00pm

re: #349 Dark_Falcon

The thing is we've sunk in so much money already, and like I said, I think getting a big-war system into service is important. But we can compromise and say 'no bias'. I can deal with that.

It's the commission outline that's truly important. Because no matter what, the F-35 program is a mess and fixing it will result in job losses. Thus we need a decision body that will focus on big picture, because in many cases Congress really can't. If their constituents shout, "They're tryin' to take ma' job away!" a Congressman has to try to intervene. If they were to support a job loss in their district, they'd be booted in the next election. Thus the BRAC-type commission.

We sank a great deal into the Crusader program, the Comanche program, the Future Combat Systems program...well, the list goes on and on. And each one, canceled simply because there was no way they were going to meet design objectives without a great deal more money and time sank into them.

We kept getting told that ending the F-22 program after the Cold War would be a mistake, because future wars would depend on such a high-tech plane. Now? It's a show piece, something that the Air Force ships around to airshows. The only way it's going to see war is if we sell it to Israel.

371 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:20:02pm

re: #332 marjoriemoon

People for the American Way... are they the ones who does those feel-good commercials?

Marj-

PFAW was co-founded by Norman Lear, who made a dollar or two off All in the Family" and its spin-offs. A nice Reformed Jewish American, he was appalled at the power of the New Christian Right in the mid-80s and helped form PFAW. It is an activist and outreach program for Libs, Progs, and Indies who think things have gone too far on the right. Most of the work is done by e-mail, collecting funds to fight against the outrageous outrage of the day and asking members to write to their Congress-critters to do something about the crazies.

372 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:22:02pm

re: #370 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Can we at least agree on the commission format? Because I think that shows promise.

373 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:23:58pm

re: #369 ProLifeLiberal

Not everything is the same every-time. Kosovo and Bosnia have cost little, if anything.

There's a reason that they called it balkanization. We took advantage of the post-Cold War instability to get our own "client states" to use against Russia (who still recognizes Kosovo as Serbian). It was nice that NATO shouldered the bill for that too.

As for the rebels, they didn't ask for our help.

374 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:24:02pm

re: #365 laZardo

Cool it with the hatin'. After the rebels win, then our contractors might bring some air conditioning for themselves or install some under contract. That's all that it'll be, and there's nothing wrong with that.

375 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:24:08pm

re: #362 Dark_Falcon

Also: All of those categories save the last are ones into which people are placed by means outside themselves (I believe they are placed into those categories by God, but I understand that others here do not (hence my phrasing)). Progressives have chosen to be progressives. Thus they are not the same type of thing.

Ridiculous social thinking, as usual. We all pay taxes; we are all peers. Whether anyone believes God made these arbitrary social categories and randomly puts people in them is irrelevant.

The socon bigots who are pRick Perry's constituents believe because they have made a choice to live as Christian confederates, that means their views are supposed to prevail and rule over the rest of us taxpayers.

I expect Perry to go far if/when he announces. This rally was a show of numbers.

376 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:24:44pm

re: #374 Dark_Falcon

Cool it with the hatin'. After the rebels win, then our contractors might bring some air conditioning for themselves or install some under contract. That's all that it'll be, and there's nothing wrong with that.

The oil to Europe will pay for that. Something has to provide France with the 30% of power that isn't nuclear.

377 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:24:46pm

re: #372 Dark_Falcon

Not in your conversation (debating with Lazardo again over Libya), but that would be reasonable.

378 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:25:13pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Here's what they said:

I was with 'em up until the very end, where they group in "progressives" with those other groups. Not the same thing. I had to laugh, actually.

The governor should not be associating with groups intolerant toward citizens of any faith, race, creed, etc etc - but IMO, by definition, a politician with a stated political philosophy is intolerant of other political philosophies. I mean, otherwise what would be the point?

Liberals have been getting a bit ansy lately to be called liberals. I don't really get that, but "progressive" seems to be the preferred name. IOW, I think PFAW was just being PC when using it.

And yes, it's a really weird action by a governor.

379 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:25:51pm

re: #350 reine.de.tout

YES.
That would have been interesting, and informative.

Without the shouting? The praise music? The Testimonials? The tightly coded attacks against all things secular?

What a snorefest!

I mean, who's gonna watch that? It's like CSPAN, for My Lord God Jesus' sake.

Need I?

380 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:26:01pm

re: #372 Dark_Falcon

Can we at least agree on the commission format? Because I think that shows promise.

I agree to it, but at the same time, I know BRAC only works when it levels its sights on something for which there's no serious support in Congress. The last round BRAC said that NAS Oceana remaining open was conditional on VA Beach getting it shit together and condemning property that sat within crash corridors around the base. The city told them, essentially, to go frak themselves and did nothing. NAS Oceana remains open to this day, because BRAC had no alternative.

381 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:26:02pm

re: #375 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ridiculous social thinking, as usual. We all pay taxes; we are all peers. Whether anyone believes God made these arbitrary social categories and randomly puts people in them is irrelevant.

The socon bigots who are pRick Perry's constituents believe because they have made a choice to live as Christian confederates, that means their views are supposed to prevail and rule over the rest of us taxpayers.

I expect Perry to go far if/when he announces. This rally was a show of numbers.

Without declaring, he has been pulling numbers essentially even with Romney on Intrade.

382 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:26:30pm

re: #349 Dark_Falcon

The thing is we've sunk in so much money already, and like I said, I think getting a big-war system into service is important.

In order to do what?

383 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:26:35pm

re: #373 laZardo

Whoops, video was from Russia Today. Looking for something less "sponsored."

384 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:26:36pm

re: #377 ProLifeLiberal

Not in your conversation (debating with Lazardo again over Libya), but that would be reasonable.

Thank you, PLL.

385 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:28:26pm

re: #373 laZardo

Again though, Serbia was on a killing spree against the Bosnians and then the Kosovars.

All three times, some asshole tried to wipe out a group he didn't like. Three times, we stopped it.

Your putting yourself out on a limb here. Remember the saying "Never Again"? I intend to hold on it.

386 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:28:45pm

re: #379 austin_blue

Without the shouting? The praise music? The Testimonials? The tightly coded attacks against all things secular?

What a snorefest!

I mean, who's gonna watch that? It's like CSPAN, for My Lord God Jesus' sake.

Need I?

Peace is such a boring concept, innit.

387 Decatur Deb  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:29:28pm

BBIAB

388 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:29:29pm

re: #380 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I agree to it, but at the same time, I know BRAC only works when it levels its sights on something for which there's no serious support in Congress. The last round BRAC said that NAS Oceana remaining open was conditional on VA Beach getting it shit together and condemning property that sat within crash corridors around the base. The city told them, essentially, to go frak themselves and did nothing. NAS Oceana remains open to this day, because BRAC had no alternative.

Well, I'm glad it stayed open because Naval Surface Warfare Center Dam Neck (which is co-located with Oceana) sends people to my company's conferences.

This is one of those narrow focuses that are a problem. I'm not entirely part of the solution in some of these things, so I feel it needed to engage in a bit of disclosure in the interests of honesty.

389 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:29:37pm

re: #383 laZardo

And RussiaToday is known for having more batshit conspiracy theories than Alex Jones.

390 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:29:58pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

Also for you:

China Threatens The ISI

SNIP

There is some controversy over China's claim that Pakistan is behind some recent violence in Western China.

AP article

BEIJING (AP) — Chinese Muslim militants have been to Taliban-controlled parts of neighboring Pakistan and Afghanistan, but there is scant evidence supporting Chinese government claims that they returned home to carry out recent terrorist attacks.

Overseas analysts and Uighur activists call the Chinese accusations a smoke screen to obscure the anger and hopelessness among Muslim ethnic Uighurs in the Xinjiang region they say are driving the violence.

Violence in Xinjiang poses a challenge to China's development plans in the resource-rich region, as well as Beijing's contention that its policies toward ethnic minorities are successful. By blaming outside forces it avoids having to acknowledge shortcomings in those policies.

Authorities have pledged to increase pressure further in the far-western region, ordering a sweeping security clampdown and vowing "no mercy" toward anyone accused of violence or separatism.

What happens when a nation has minority populations that face stiff competition from a majority group that knows the dominant language much better, that has more education and better jobs training, that's jobs hungry, and thus migrates into historically minority areas?

Some kind of trouble seems inevitable. China's majority Han population is, in its view, simply exercising its right to follow individual opportunity anywhere it can be found in China. The Uighurs may get squeezed out and marginalized by this trend, but that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Life is hard, and it's hard for the Han too.

Uighurs see things differently, of course. But what can they do? Armed resistance is hopeless. Competing with the Chinese by improving their own educational standing isn't likely to work either; the Chinese have stellar academic results not only in their Han homeland, but everywhere in the world where they find themselves a minority. Hunkering down and out-breeding the Han? That didn't work for the various "hill tribe" remnant populations scattered across southern China, which was once their domain.

That leaves appeals to the international community. Which have got the Tibetans exactly nowhere.

391 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:30:49pm

re: #378 marjoriemoon

Liberals have been getting a bit ansy lately to be called liberals. I don't really get that, but "progressive" seems to be the preferred name. IOW, I think PFAW was just being PC when using it.

And yes, it's a really weird action by a governor.

I don't think it's weird at all for someone who appeals to confederates and other Christian-supremacists.

Put it this way: for confederates and other Christian-supremacists, Reagan, Bush 1 and Shrubya were all disappointments, mainly because they didn't end Roe v Wade by fiat, and reinstall Christian-only, teacher-led prayer in school.

This crew will never give up looking for their political messiah who's gonna kill all the queers and the abortionists for them. They even tried that with Palin, and she took their money and left them high and dry (though I don't believe she's finished with them.)

They make themselves exploitable, and lo and behold, here come all manner of people to exploit them. It's never-ending, with them.

392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:31:33pm

re: #383 laZardo

Whoops, video was from Russia Today. Looking for something less "sponsored."

RT is....everywhere.

393 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:32:26pm

re: #370 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

We sank a great deal into the Crusader program, the Comanche program, the Future Combat Systems program...well, the list goes on and on. And each one, canceled simply because there was no way they were going to meet design objectives without a great deal more money and time sank into them.

We kept getting told that ending the F-22 program after the Cold War would be a mistake, because future wars would depend on such a high-tech plane. Now? It's a show piece, something that the Air Force ships around to airshows. The only way it's going to see war is if we sell it to Israel.

The Israelis don't want the F-22. It's a hanger queen. A classic example of when the tech hasn't matured but is slapped into a weapons system anyway. The problem is the anechoic coating that sheathes the fuselage. It's just dandy, unless there is any precipitation. Or ice. Or clouds. Or dust.

Since the airplanes' air superiority depends on its relative invisibility, no skin = just another 4th generation fighter. And there are plenty of those.

394 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:32:27pm

re: #389 ProLifeLiberal

And RussiaToday is known for having more batshit conspiracy theories than Alex Jones.

I can't stand them. Bunch of dorks.

395 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:34:55pm

re: #390 lostlakehiker

Eventually, China will collapse.

I won't say much if the Uyghurs, Tibetans and Mongols want revenge for 60+ years of mistreatment. The Han have treated them horrifically.

396 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:35:35pm

re: #393 austin_blue

I'm assuming that there are better materials today?

397 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:36:21pm

re: #385 ProLifeLiberal

It'd be nice if we blew Gaddafi up, but...

(also)

re: #385 ProLifeLiberal

Again though, Serbia was on a killing spree against the Bosnians and then the Kosovars.

All three times, some asshole tried to wipe out a group he didn't like. Three times, we stopped it.

Your putting yourself out on a limb here. Remember the saying "Never Again"? I intend to hold on it.

We got lucky that they didn't end up rebelling against NATO rule for much longer afterward. But as I also mentioned, the Balkans =/= MENA.

398 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:36:46pm

re: #388 Dark_Falcon

Well, I'm glad it stayed open because Naval Surface Warfare Center Dam Neck (which is co-located with Oceana) sends people to my company's conferences.

This is one of those narrow focuses that are a problem. I'm not entirely part of the solution in some of these things, so I feel it needed to engage in a bit of disclosure in the interests of honesty.

And that's part of the reason that the idea of a commission is great, in theory. In practice, as soon as such a commission was even proposed, aimed at deciding the ultimate fate of the F-35 program, you'd have an absolute ruckus in Congress. Every Congress critter whose reelection bid would be threatened by job losses in his district would be against the commission's creation. Not to mention the warhawks who'd be aghast at the idea of even suggesting the program being cancelled.

So yeah, I like the idea, but the political reality is it would never go anywhere.

399 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:37:13pm

re: #386 marjoriemoon

Peace is such a boring concept, innit.

People get juiced by conflict. I wish more people read books for their jollies rather than expecting the big glass teat to provide their lives with excitement.

But there ya go! We live in Lowest Common Denominator America, where Idiocracy is not Science Fiction, but appears to be a national obsession.

400 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:39:20pm

re: #395 ProLifeLiberal

Eventually, China will collapse.

I won't say much if the Uyghurs, Tibetans and Mongols want revenge for 60+ years of mistreatment. The Han have treated them horrifically.

Oh, I hope not. That would be horrendous for us and for the world. Better those people be subsumed than a major nuclear and economic power collapse.

Now if you mean you think China's one-party rule will collapse, then that I could support. But China collapsing as a nation would be a disaster of the first magnitude.

401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:40:24pm

Charisma magazine is the national pub of the Charismatic movement.

Re: the legality of the Response rally, Court Allows Rick Perry to Participate in Prayer Rally

After withstanding much persecution, Texas Gov. Rick Perry will be allowed to attend his scheduled prayer and fasting event next week. A federal judge on Thursday dismissed a group of atheists' lawsuit filed against Perry.

Comments are key. These are the types of Christian-shariah conservatives who thrive on bully/victim syndrome. If they're not allowed to force everyone else into being their dhimmis, they believe they are being "persecuted". 9_9

402 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:42:27pm

re: #396 ProLifeLiberal

I'm assuming that there are better materials today?

Nope. It's a pisser of a problem. There are materials that can do the job, but they have to be 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch thick. That creates significant weight/adhesive/boundary layer problems that affects the performance of the aircraft.

No viable solution is yet available.

403 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:43:06pm

re: #398 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And that's part of the reason that the idea of a commission is great, in theory. In practice, as soon as such a commission was even proposed, aimed at deciding the ultimate fate of the F-35 program, you'd have an absolute ruckus in Congress. Every Congress critter whose reelection bid would be threatened by job losses in his district would be against the commission's creation. Not to mention the warhawks who'd be aghast at the idea of even suggesting the program being cancelled.

So yeah, I like the idea, but the political reality is it would never go anywhere.

But then you just have a program stuck on stupid. So you have to put the choice to them: Agree to the commission or the program gets cut summarily. Thus they can either say they tried to save it or fail utterly.

404 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:43:41pm

re: #400 Dark_Falcon

If the world survived the collapse of the Communist Bloc, it would survive a collapse of China. The countries around it will help pick up the pieces, especially in the case of Tibet and Uyghurstan.

Supply issues with Metals (rare earth and otherwise) will become less (if my memory is correct), as Tibet will be independent. And Uranium gets a bit cheaper, as Uyghurstan is also independent.

405 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:44:28pm

re: #402 austin_blue

And we hit the technological wall for the time being.

406 What, me worry?  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:44:45pm

re: #401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Charisma magazine is the national pub of the Charismatic movement.

Re: the legality of the Response rally, Court Allows Rick Perry to Participate in Prayer Rally

Comments are key. These are the types of Christian-shariah conservatives who thrive on bully/victim syndrome. If they're not allowed to force everyone else into being their dhimmis, they believe they are being "persecuted". 9_9

Hmmm... They couldn't force Perry not to attend because that would be a violation of his religious expression.

What Perry did wasn't a legal violation, it was a moral one, IMO.

407 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:46:59pm

re: #403 Dark_Falcon

But then you just have a program stuck on stupid. So you have to put the choice to them: Agree to the commission or the program gets cut summarily. Thus they can either say they tried to save it or fail utterly.

They'll then proceed to work towards sabotaging the commission, such as getting those supportive of keeping the program "as-is" into the commission's ranks, getting "independent" reviews of the program that will show commission proposed changes will cost more or won't truly reduce costs, and ultimately scream that the program simply can't be delayed to make changes, as we need the F-35 "now."

And since putting the power to unilaterally kill the program into the commission's hands would be impossible, you can be sure the final recommendations will come up to a vote, which will go nowhere because nobody will want to be seen as supporting job losses.

408 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:47:35pm

re: #395 ProLifeLiberal

Eventually, China will collapse.

I won't say much if the Uyghurs, Tibetans and Mongols want revenge for 60+ years of mistreatment. The Han have treated them horrifically.

No nation has yet lasted forever, but China has endured. Their civilization has stood about as long as any, and right now they're moving smartly up in the world.

China has, in the last 40 years or so, gone from a third world nation to verging on first world. GDP has been doubling once every 8 years or so. The Party has managed to escape the trap of ruling over a centrally misplanned economy; it now allows a burgeoning more-or-less private sector.

Corruption is rife, the authorities treat everybody badly, Han or minority, and environmental problems are severe and getting worse. But this is not a recipe for collapse any time in this century.

China has never been stronger. Her cautious international policy is insurance against adventures that could rock the boat and derail her economic progress. She's diversified out of the dollar, and is buying up raw materials, mines, and so on all across Africa and in other places as well.

China's GDP will surpass that of the United States in this decade, most likely. They're already number two, ahead of Japan. There's no collapse in the tea leaves I'm reading.

409 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:48:23pm

re: #404 ProLifeLiberal

If the world survived the collapse of the Communist Bloc, it would survive a collapse of China. The countries around it will help pick up the pieces, especially in the case of Tibet and Uyghurstan.

Supply issues with Metals (rare earth and otherwise) will become less (if my memory is correct), as Tibet will be independent. And Uranium gets a bit cheaper, as Uyghurstan is also independent.

China is far more integrated into the world's economy than the USSR ever was, so I disagree with your assessment.

410 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:49:14pm

re: #408 lostlakehiker

There are protests going on over corruption and other issues near constantly now. Growth is beginning to slow, and they have a housing bubble that has to be seen to be believed.

411 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:50:28pm

re: #409 Dark_Falcon

I think other nations would pick up the slack. Those in Southeast Asia are behind China, and I don't think they would mind catching any outflow.

412 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:51:29pm

re: #410 ProLifeLiberal

There are protests going on over corruption and other issues near constantly now. Growth is beginning to slow, and they have a housing bubble that has to be seen to be believed.

These are real factors that augur trouble for China. But the U.S. didn't collapse as a result of the depression. There is a lot of ruin in a nation. I can see how China might face a period of depression, crop failures, widespread riots, and what not. But all that would only set them back a decade. They'd pull through.

413 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:51:38pm

re: #406 marjoriemoon

Hmmm... They couldn't force Perry not to attend because that would be a violation of his religious expression.

What Perry did wasn't a legal violation, it was a moral one, IMO.

I actually agree with the ruling, even knowing full well the same logic would never be applied to anyone but a Christian-shariah governor in a confederate state.

The GOTP allows bigots like Herman Cain to stand up and state outright he won't allow Muslims in his fantasy-world cabinet. None of them said anything against it.

When Cain relented (co-incidentally right after that other Christian-supremacist bigot shot up and killed 80 liberal children), Bryan Fischer got his panties in a wad. afa.net/Blogs/BlogPost.aspx?id=2147509610 (I broke the link on purpose.)

Lol this is the same dumb bigot who claimed Herman Cain was the only authentic black in the presidential race. Guess not, not no more /rotfl

Lol there is no end to Christian confederate hypocrisy, and infighting. Idiots.

414 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:55:14pm

re: #407 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Has to be tried, though. We can't keep trying to build weapons this way. It doesn't work and it makes us look feeble. Even if this mess can't be cleaned up, procurement needs to be reformed to prevent future failures.

415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:58:20pm

re: #381 Decatur Deb

Without declaring, he has been pulling numbers essentially even with Romney on Intrade.

After today's show, I think Jefferson Davis-Lite will announce after Labor Day, if not sooner. If that happens, people should be aware that he doesn't have the wrong-body-parts problem of Bachmann/Palin or Romney's wrong-religion problem.

The tea party dupes will fall for it, and so will the rest of the dumb frightened-of-their-own-shadows cons.

Anything he's done in TX won't matter, just like the last TX blowhole they fell all over themselves for. Plus ça change...

416 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 9:59:22pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

Has to be tried, though. We can't keep trying to build weapons this way. It doesn't work and it makes us look feeble. Even if this mess can't be cleaned up, procurement needs to be reformed to prevent future failures.

The first step is acknowledging that, when a program has gone on as long as the F-35, while failing to meet deadline after deadline, with an ever-increasing budgetary overrun, that pulling the plug is in the nation's best interest. We need large numbers of affordable, reliable aircraft, not a small number of maintenance hassles. The F-35's never going to succeed in replacing the F-16, certainly not on a 1:1 basis. And the Marines may be sold on it as a Harrier replacement, but the Navy was all but dragooned into the program from the word go.

417 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:00:12pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

It doesn't work and it makes us look feeble.

To whom?

Republicans have never cared how we "look" in the eyes of others, especially when we run around using up those big-war materials on countries that never attack us. Why feign concern about how we "look" now?

Lol!

418 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:01:23pm

re: #415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

After today's show, I think Jefferson Davis-Lite will announce after Labor Day, if not sooner. If that happens, people should be aware that he doesn't have the wrong-body-parts problem of Bachmann/Palin or Romney's wrong-religion problem.

The tea party dupes will fall for it, and so will the rest of the dumb frightened-of-their-own-shadows cons.

Anything he's done in TX won't matter, just like the last TX blowhole they fell all over themselves for. Plus ça change...

Like I said above, folks are going to vote for the myth, not the person. And the myth portrays Perry as some sort of Texas miracle man, a modern-day Midas whose touch turns everything around to gold. His supporters will play up the "facts" that show Texas as being some well-spring of all that America needs, glossing over the reality that the state is sinking into a quagmire of ignorance and corporate corruption.

419 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:01:41pm

Ok. OT, but for the gamers here, I just have to share.

People at another site were arguing about ballistic gelatin and it's usefulness.

This was presented as the final word on the subject...

Image: normal_n1121139748_74042_4382.jpg

420 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:03:06pm

re: #418 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I said above, folks are going to vote for the myth, not the person. And the myth portrays Perry as some sort of Texas miracle man, a modern-day Midas whose touch turns everything around to gold. His supporters will play up the "facts" that show Texas as being some well-spring of all that America needs, glossing over the reality that the state is sinking into a quagmire of ignorance and corporate corruption.

Conservative Republicans are very easily duped, manipulated, and exploited.

I expect Perry to do quite well in the coming years.

421 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:05:34pm

re: #420 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Conservative Republicans are very easily duped, manipulated, and exploited.

I expect Perry to do quite well in the coming years.

True enough. And while I'd like to believe that independents would see through all that, they're just as likely to support him simply out of disapproval of Obama. Reelection bids live and die through the economy, and the GOP may have succeeded in doing enough damage that economic malaise lasts through next November. What a historical irony, that the sort of economic disaster that put the first black man in the White House may ultimately remove him just as quickly from it.

422 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:05:54pm

re: #418 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Like I said above, folks are going to vote for the myth, not the person. And the myth portrays Perry as some sort of Texas miracle man, a modern-day Midas whose touch turns everything around to gold. His supporters will play up the "facts" that show Texas as being some well-spring of all that America needs, glossing over the reality that the state is sinking into a quagmire of ignorance and corporate corruption.

Isn't that EXACTLY what GWB ran on, though?

423 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:09:48pm

re: #422 SanFranciscoZionist

Isn't that EXACTLY what GWB ran on, though?

It's what all governors who want to be president do, play up their "success" at home and promise to replicate it on the national level.

424 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:13:56pm

re: #404 ProLifeLiberal

If the world survived the collapse of the Communist Bloc, it would survive a collapse of China. The countries around it will help pick up the pieces, especially in the case of Tibet and Uyghurstan.

Supply issues with Metals (rare earth and otherwise) will become less (if my memory is correct), as Tibet will be independent. And Uranium gets a bit cheaper, as Uyghurstan is also independent.

The problem with this concept is transportation. Prior to 1950, Tibet and western China had no transportation infrastructure. Since that time, all infrastructure has been built from west to east. Since Tibet and western China, whatever their resources, have no way of transporting their goods except through Han China, they are at the mercy of their oppressors.

In other words, unless they invent Star Trek transporter pods, whatever exports they have that can aid them in international trade are unavailable to international markets.

Checkmate.

425 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:14:15pm

re: #422 SanFranciscoZionist

Isn't that EXACTLY what GWB ran on, though?

These dupes will fall for anything.

re: #421 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What a historical irony, that the sort of economic disaster that put the first black man in the White House may ultimately remove him just as quickly from it.

I don't think it's all that ironic. AFAIC, these butthurt confederate conservatives have been sniffling about their supposed oppression since the Civil War, when the federal government mopped the floor with their butts.

100 years later, the Civil Rights movement and again the federal government handed their rear ends to them and disallowed their sharecropper economic policies to rule. They kicked into gear, and were in it for the long term. Now we are seeing the results of that work in Palin, Perry, the AFA (which has been around since the 70s) those religious/televangelist schools that churn out Bartons and Bachmanns, and now a whole slew of nonwhites such as Herman Cain who articulate those policies.

These dumb bigots are worse than the jilted lover who would rather shoot the ex in the head instead of the prospect of her going out with anyone else.

426 Alexzander  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:16:58pm

Evening everyone!

I think this is an excellent new chapter for LGF and I intend to write some in-depth pieces in the hope of getting something promoted.

427 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:17:04pm

re: #408 lostlakehiker

No nation has yet lasted forever, but China has endured. Their civilization has stood about as long as any, and right now they're moving smartly up in the world.

Longer than any other in history, IIRC. I'm not an expert on history, though.

428 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:17:34pm

re: #415 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

After today's show, I think Jefferson Davis-Lite will announce after Labor Day, if not sooner. If that happens, people should be aware that he doesn't have the wrong-body-parts problem of Bachmann/Palin or Romney's wrong-religion problem.

The tea party dupes will fall for it, and so will the rest of the dumb frightened-of-their-own-shadows cons.

Anything he's done in TX won't matter, just like the last TX blowhole they fell all over themselves for. Plus ça change...

Well, I'm on the record with all sorts of predictions about the nomination. Here goes with another one: Perry won't be the nominee. The reason is that the nation just isn't ready for another TX GOP gov. There will be a sense of been there done that how'd it go last time to Perry's bid.

And people won't be too articulate about it, but this sense of umm I dunno I got a bad feeling about it will be a cloud over his head. Republicans will sense that even if he were to win the nomination, he'd be dragged down by that in the general election.

And so he won't win the nomination.

429 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:17:54pm

re: #421 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I don't think it's all that ironic. AFAIC, these butthurt confederate conservatives have been sniffling about their supposed oppression since the Civil War, when the federal government mopped the floor with their butts.

100 years later, the Civil Rights movement and again the federal government handed their rear ends to them and disallowed their sharecropper economic policies to rule. They kicked into gear, and were in it for the long term. Now we are seeing the results of that work in Palin, Perry, the AFA (which has been around since the 70s) those religious/televangelist schools that churn out Bartons and Bachmanns, and now a whole slew of nonwhites such as Herman Cain who articulate those policies.

These dumb bigots are worse than the jilted lover who would rather shoot the ex in the head instead of the prospect of her going out with anyone else.

It's not the bigots I'm looking at, it's the unemployed, who are going to view his presidency as a "failure" due to inability to undo the Bush presidency in a single term. In some ways, I can't blame them, as the man promised "change," then spent his presidency trying to appease those adverse to change and failing miserably.

430 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:19:12pm

Damnit, should have previewed that one.

I'm going to get "PIMF" tattooed into my forehead.

431 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:20:52pm

re: #430 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Damnit, should have previewed that one.

I'm going to get "PIMF" tattooed into my forehead.

Might be more useful to just write it on the bezel of your monitor.

Just sayin'...

432 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:22:18pm

re: #424 austin_blue

You might be able to figure something out by going through India.

I wish the Han didn't have such a superiority complex.

It seems London is having a Paris Moment.

433 b_sharp  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:22:56pm

OT.

A while ago I promised Hoops I'd post some pics of my music equipment. I also promised OhCrap a couple of days ago.

If anyone is interested, the pics are on my server. Just click on my nic.

434 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:24:05pm

re: #432 ProLifeLiberal


I wish the Han didn't have such a superiority complex.

But how would he have won the Millenium Falcon otherwise?


What?


Oh.

///

435 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:24:15pm

re: #428 lostlakehiker

Well, I'm on the record with all sorts of predictions about the nomination. Here goes with another one: Perry won't be the nominee. The reason is that the nation just isn't ready for another TX GOP gov. There will be a sense of been there done that how'd it go last time to Perry's bid.

And people won't be too articulate about it, but this sense of umm I dunno I got a bad feeling about it will be a cloud over his head. Republicans will sense that even if he were to win the nomination, he'd be dragged down by that in the general election.

And so he won't win the nomination.

Well, I think if he runs it's quite possible. And if he doesn't, a VP nomination is even moreso.

I look at it this way: conservatives are so rife for exploitation right now, they lionize Saint Ronald on the one hand, but would label anyone with his policies a RINO in the other.

So imo ... dunno, it's all guesswork. I have no doubt, though, that current GOTP politicians will do everything they can to crash the economy just so they can win. They are that petty, and their constituents are that stupid, that they will fall for it. Again.

436 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:25:56pm

re: #432 ProLifeLiberal

You might be able to figure something out by going through India.

Over or through the Himalayas?

437 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:25:56pm

re: #424 austin_blue

The problem with this concept is transportation. Prior to 1950, Tibet and western China had no transportation infrastructure. Since that time, all infrastructure has been built from west to east. Since Tibet and western China, whatever their resources, have no way of transporting their goods except through Han China, they are at the mercy of their oppressors.

In other words, unless they invent Star Trek transporter pods, whatever exports they have that can aid them in international trade are unavailable to international markets.

Checkmate.

As to purely physical obstacles, Tibet is indeed walled in. But Western China has terrain that connects to the 'Stans, and thence to Russia. If, and it strikes me as a most unlikely if, but if Uighurs were to win Chinese assent to a degree of federalism, and if the Han now there [by now, the majority] were rounded up by the central government and forced to leave, ---but why go on? That won't happen.

OK---assume a dust bowl. Assume China's economy takes a dive and it's especially bad in the West. Maybe the Han would pack up and leave for literally greener pastures. They'd have relatives who could take them in, after all, back East.

Assume China, under the stress of bad times, grants autonomy of a sort. Railroads and pipelines could be built through the Stans. But what then? With prosperity would come new internal migration. Back to where we started.

438 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:27:04pm

re: #416 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The first step is acknowledging that, when a program has gone on as long as the F-35, while failing to meet deadline after deadline, with an ever-increasing budgetary overrun, that pulling the plug is in the nation's best interest. We need large numbers of affordable, reliable aircraft, not a small number of maintenance hassles. The F-35's never going to succeed in replacing the F-16, certainly not on a 1:1 basis. And the Marines may be sold on it as a Harrier replacement, but the Navy was all but dragooned into the program from the word go.

And the F-18 Super Hornet is still one hell of an airplane. The fact is that the last real fighter/attack aircraft that was usable by both the Navy and the Air Force was the F-4 Phantom, which was originally classified as the F-110 by the Air Force. That was an early 60's beast that my dad flew in Viet Nam. Originally developed as a navy bird, it was this country's primary multi-functional war bird (fighter/ground attack) from 1966 until around 1982.

439 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:27:29pm

re: #432 ProLifeLiberal


I wish the Han didn't have such a superiority complex.

Not going to happen. To be Han is, well, to be Han.

440 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:27:50pm

re: #437 lostlakehiker

Or, under the stress of bad times, we could start stockpiling bottle caps for currency.

/OBVIOUS GAME REFERENCE

441 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:28:32pm

re: #438 austin_blue

And the F-18 Super Hornet is still one hell of an airplane. The fact is that the last real fighter/attack aircraft that was usable by both the Navy and the Air Force was the F-4 Phantom, which was originally classified as the F-110 by the Air Force. That was an early 60's beast that my dad flew in Viet Nam. Originally developed as a navy bird, it was this country's primary multi-functional war bird (fighter/ground attack) from 1966 until around 1982.

Our primary ground attack aircraft is the A-10.

I AM PERFECTLY CONTENT WITH THAT. :D

442 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:29:49pm

re: #441 laZardo

Our primary ground attack aircraft is the A-10.

I AM PERFECTLY CONTENT WITH THAT. :D

The A-10 is the best plane that the Air Force never really wanted...

443 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:30:55pm

re: #432 ProLifeLiberal

You might be able to figure something out by going through India.

I wish the Han didn't have such a superiority complex.

It seems London is having a Paris Moment.

The dead man's name was "Mike Duggan", which is not stopping the morons on the news-site comment from ranting about Muslim immigrants.

444 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:31:36pm

re: #427 Slumbering Behemoth

Longer than any other in history, IIRC. I'm not an expert on history, though.

Well, yeah, if you don't count getting invaded, occupied, partitioned, and slaughtered on a regular basis in the past two centuries.

445 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:32:04pm

re: #417 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

To whom?

Republicans have never cared how we "look" in the eyes of others, especially when we run around using up those big-war materials on countries that never attack us. Why feign concern about how we "look" now?

Lol!

People who support military strength and want a strong nation care about that nation looking weak. Thus we need sound procurement reform. Hell, we might even be able to use the Tea Party to help drive. Lemons to lemonade and all..

446 lostlakehiker  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:32:22pm

re: #435 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, I think if he runs it's quite possible. And if he doesn't, a VP nomination is even moreso.

I look at it this way: conservatives are so rife for exploitation right now, they lionize Saint Ronald on the one hand, but would label anyone with his policies a RINO in the other.

So imo ... dunno, it's all guesswork. I have no doubt, though, that current GOTP politicians will do everything they can to crash the economy just so they can win. They are that petty, and their constituents are that stupid, that they will fall for it. Again.

I won't contradict you on his VP chances.

But you know, this talk of how stupid and benighted the other side is, and how for that reason elections don't work---isn't that the song Breivik was singing?

The public is not terminally stupid.

447 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:34:08pm

re: #443 SanFranciscoZionist

The dead man's name was "Mike Duggan", which is not stopping the morons on the news-site comment from ranting about Muslim immigrants.

The photos are terrifying. That double-decker on fire...creeps me the hell out.

448 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:34:14pm

re: #429 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's not the bigots I'm looking at, it's the unemployed, who are going to view his presidency as a "failure" due to inability to undo the Bush presidency in a single term. In some ways, I can't blame them, as the man promised "change," then spent his presidency trying to appease those adverse to change and failing miserably.

I think we can pretty much count on minority scapegoating in this and coming elections, especially given what the Obama administration has done re: gay rights. It's never removed from economic scapegoating...they're often one in the same. Hopefully 2012 will be different, but I seriously doubt it.

It works, especially on duped cons. Duped libs aren't that much better, in my view lol

In fact, in 2004, the crankodoodles like Counterpunch were the ones screaming it was lgbt's who lost it for Kerry. Supposedly, the moderates were all scared away when people stood up to antigay ballot measures. Could be the same as 2004, could be a different scapegoat this year, but I would be very surprised if the GOP didn't shield their own complicity in the screwed up economy with yapping about gays or muslims or anchor babies or anything else they've tried since "pals around with terrorists".

449 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:35:06pm

I used to live in North London. This feels entirely wrong.

450 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:35:52pm

re: #442 JasonA

The A-10 is the best plane that the Air Force never really wanted...

True that. The Air Force has never liked it. The Air Force likes "Golly Wilikers" fighters full of high-tech gear. But those aren't as useful for ground attack.

I wish a honest and less-biased defense review was possible.*

*: I know, I know: "Why don't you just wish for the Moon, DF? ROFL!"

451 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:36:04pm

re: #438 austin_blue

And the F-18 Super Hornet is still one hell of an airplane. The fact is that the last real fighter/attack aircraft that was usable by both the Navy and the Air Force was the F-4 Phantom, which was originally classified as the F-110 by the Air Force. That was an early 60's beast that my dad flew in Viet Nam. Originally developed as a navy bird, it was this country's primary multi-functional war bird (fighter/ground attack) from 1966 until around 1982.

Yeah, a Navy fighter repurposed into a fighter-bomber for the Air Force and Marines. Damned fine plane, though the whole "gunless fighter" idea was a blotch on it until the F-4E came into service.

Meanwhile, the first aircraft intended to fulfill two different service needs, namely an Air Force tactical bomber and a Navy long-range fighter, the F-111, was an utter disaster. Both services disagreed with the idea, but the Air Force ultimately got lead and got the aircraft they wanted. The Navy got shafted and, if not for Grumman with the F-14, would have had to soldier on with the F-4 for another two decades.

Guess which design heritage the F-35 takes after?

452 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:36:20pm

re: #445 Dark_Falcon

People who support military strength and want a strong nation care about that nation looking weak.

Maybe you do, but I support both and don't give a tinker's damn what others may or may not think.

That's just an excuse.

453 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:42:01pm

re: #435 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well, I think if he runs it's quite possible. And if he doesn't, a VP nomination is even moreso.

I look at it this way: conservatives are so rife for exploitation right now, they lionize Saint Ronald on the one hand, but would label anyone with his policies a RINO in the other.

So imo ... dunno, it's all guesswork. I have no doubt, though, that current GOTP politicians will do everything they can to crash the economy just so they can win. They are that petty, and their constituents are that stupid, that they will fall for it. Again.

You have never seen Perry on the stump. He's *brilliant*.

*If* he decides to run (I'm guessing on the next three weeks for his decision- it all depends on how the money lines up outside of Texas) that he will be a wonderment to Republican America. He has never flip-flopped since leaving the D's for the R's around 1989. He claims to be an Evangelical Christian. He will claim that he balanced the budget in Texas this year without tax increases. He has Pointy Boots and Great Hair.

Do *not* underestimate this man or his organization. It's a juggernaut.

He has never lost an election. Ever. Not even close.

455 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:43:53pm

re: #442 JasonA

The A-10 is the best plane that the Air Force never really wanted...

The A-10 is the greatest aircraft that the Air Corps Farce er, Force, has ever flown. But then again, I was a tanker, in Europe, in the early '80's. Only the A-10 could have saved my ass.

Gulf 1 proved it.

Gulf 2 re-enforced that.

The Zoomies will never forgive us ground pounders.

456 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:44:37pm

re: #446 lostlakehiker

But you know, this talk of how stupid and benighted the other side is, and how for that reason elections don't work---isn't that the song Breivik was singing?

The public is not terminally stupid.

You should tell that to Mitch McConnell (R - Derp), since he's the one who thinks

457 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:45:33pm

re: #447 SanFranciscoZionist

The photos are terrifying. That double-decker on fire...creeps me the hell out.

Bad stuff. Time to set a curfew and get people off the streets. You have to be firm with rioters.

458 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:45:36pm

re: #444 austin_blue

Well, yeah, if you don't count getting invaded, occupied, partitioned, and slaughtered on a regular basis in the past two centuries.

They still have a cultural history that goes back 4-5k years, don't they? Or am I wrong?

459 austin_blue  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:46:53pm

re: #451 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, a Navy fighter repurposed into a fighter-bomber for the Air Force and Marines. Damned fine plane, though the whole "gunless fighter" idea was a blotch on it until the F-4E came into service.

Meanwhile, the first aircraft intended to fulfill two different service needs, namely an Air Force tactical bomber and a Navy long-range fighter, the F-111, was an utter disaster. Both services disagreed with the idea, but the Air Force ultimately got lead and got the aircraft they wanted. The Navy got shafted and, if not for Grumman with the F-14, would have had to soldier on with the F-4 for another two decades.

Guess which design heritage the F-35 takes after?

Aardvark.

460 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:50:13pm

re: #450 Dark_Falcon

The A-10 is perfect if you need to absolutely, positively need to turn some schmuck on the ground into a pile of slag and shattered things.

461 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:51:43pm

re: #453 austin_blue

Do *not* underestimate this man or his organization. It's a juggernaut.

That's what I've been saying. And yeah, I'll be watching his footage from The Response rally, too.

I say, write off this overgrown prayer meeting if ya like. But that's a bad idea...every bit as bad as writing off Palin was the day after the 2008 election.

I've also been saying forever (decades), write off the tongue-talking Christian shariah-set if you like. But now we're dealing with Candidate Bachmann, Governor McDonnell, (fmr) TX Board of Ed member Dunbar, and a lot of others who, like myself, were raised to do exactly what the above are doing -- make the US into a country by and conservative Christian-supremacists only. Everyone else is to be a dhimmi.

462 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:52:52pm

re: #460 ProLifeLiberal

The A-10 is perfect if you need to absolutely, positively need to turn some schmuck on the ground into a pile of slag and shattered things.

The AC-130 is what you use if you want to stick around for seconds. :3

/i blame cod:mw

463 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:54:29pm

re: #462 laZardo

Or also makes sure anybody escaping is turned into Spare Limbs.

464 Targetpractice  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:54:47pm

re: #462 laZardo

The AC-130 is what you use if you want to stick around for seconds. :3

/i blame cod:mw

The Spooky's what you use if you want to reduce everything below it into red mist.

465 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:57:23pm

Is DA2 worth my time and 30 bucks, or do I just need to continue pining for Skyrim?

466 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 10:58:31pm

re: #456 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ah, pimf.

re: #446 lostlakehiker

I won't contradict you on his VP chances.

But you know, this talk of how stupid and benighted the other side is, and how for that reason elections don't work---isn't that the song Breivik was singing?

The public is not terminally stupid.

You should tell Mitch McConnell (R - Derp) about Breivik, since he's the one who thinks elections -- nothing works. His words.

I'm saying, yes, it's very easy to dupe a frightened, thought-stopped con. Just tell him someone he thinks is beneath him is coming for his little trinkets...they'll do anything you want. Tell them someone whose status they will never, ever attain doesn't want to pay taxes, they will do that person's bidding.

I also didn't say anything against the public...the GOTP constituency isn't the public, they are only part of it, and not even a majority of it.

I don't take voting lightly. I cannot afford to.

467 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:03:36pm

re: #466 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

it's very easy to dupe a frightened, thought-stopped con. Just tell him someone he thinks is beneath him is coming for his little trinkets...they'll do anything you want. Tell them someone whose status they will never, ever attain doesn't want to pay taxes, they will do that person's bidding.

You are now reading all of that in Michael Westin's voice.

468 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:04:10pm

re: #462 laZardo

The AC-130 is what you use if you want to stick around for seconds. :3

/i blame cod:mw

But the A-10 is the only one of those two you can use against a target with functional air defenses. Against even ZSU-23-4's the AC-130 would be blown out of the sky. The Spooky has great value, but it can't really be used if the targets can shoot back effectively.

469 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:04:29pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

But the A-10 is the only one of those two you can use against a target with functional air defenses. Against even ZSU-23-4's the AC-130 would be blown out of the sky. The Spooky has great value, but it can't really be used if the targets can shoot back effectively.

STOP RUINING THE MOMENT

/ :B

470 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:04:54pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

But the A-10 is the only one of those two you can use against a target with functional air defenses. Against even ZSU-23-4's the AC-130 would be blown out of the sky. The Spooky has great value, but it can't really be used if the targets can shoot back effectively.

Works wonders against Decepticons, though...

471 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:05:59pm

re: #467 laZardo

You are now reading all of that in Michael Westin's voice.

That paragraph does indeed sound very Burn Notice. It's exactly how Westin would think.

472 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:09:50pm

re: #467 laZardo

Lol had to look him up. Looks like I'm going to add that to my rentals list.

473 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:10:19pm

re: #470 JasonA

Works wonders against Decepticons, though...

Only because Michael Bay wouldn't know military reality if it hit him upside the head. He's in love with special effects and gadgets, which means he's perfect to work with the Air Force. He has the same blind spots and pathologies that they do.

474 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:11:35pm

re: #472 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol had to look him up. Looks like I'm going to add that to my rentals list.

You'll enjoy the show. And it's currently airing on USA, if you want to catch the current season.

475 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:11:57pm

re: #471 Dark_Falcon

That paragraph does indeed sound very Burn Notice. It's exactly how Westin would think.

Lol last I checked, the GOTP constituency has never thought so highly of me, either, tv shows be damned.

476 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:14:09pm

re: #472 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Best to start from the beginning to understand it all.

477 Mocking Jay  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:15:35pm

re: #476 laZardo

Best to start from the beginning to understand it all.

So far behind on that show it ain't even funny. Dexter too.

478 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:18:31pm

re: #474 Dark_Falcon

It's on a local network station here. Ash is in it, so yeah, I watch.

479 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:18:56pm

re: #473 Dark_Falcon

Only because Michael Bay wouldn't know military reality if it hit him upside the head. He's in love with special effects and gadgets, which means he's perfect to work with the Air Force. He has the same blind spots and pathologies that they do.

HAH! Too true.

And with that, good night!

480 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:19:24pm

Group says it hacked websites of U.S. law enforcement agencies

AntiSec said its cyber-attack affected agencies in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri and Mississippi. The group launched similar attacks against law enforcement in Arizona in June.

"A week after we defaced and destroyed the websites of over 70 law enforcement agencies, we are releasing a massive amount of confidential information that is sure to embarass, discredit and incriminate police officers across the US," AntiSec said in a statement posted on a file-sharing site where it has previously released stolen material.

481 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:19:52pm

re: #446 lostlakehiker

But you know, this talk of how stupid and benighted the other side is, and how for that reason elections don't work---isn't that the song Breivik was singing?

The song Breivik sings has been directly sampled from USA rwnj talking points.

Multiculturalism is evil and scary

Liberalism, women's rights, gay rights, anyone's rights are emasculating poor, put-upon conservative males who are no longer permitted to rule us with iron fists

Muslims are foreign influences looking to replace our laws with shariah laws. The president is one, oops Breivik didn't say that part

Unless conservative males and their admirers eliminate the above, the west is doomed

You won't find any of the above in anything I say. You do not have to look far to find it in rwnj blogs, newsletters, magazines, national platforms, campaign rhetoric, etc.

482 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:20:36pm

re: #476 laZardo

Best to start from the beginning to understand it all.

I will do that.

483 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:21:32pm

re: #480 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Group says it hacked websites of U.S. law enforcement agencies

Lol and this is any better than Uncle Rupert, how?

484 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:22:43pm

re: #474 Dark_Falcon

You'll enjoy the show. And it's currently airing on USA, if you want to catch the current season.

Ok, thanks. I bet my local video store has it. I'll check tomorrow.

485 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:23:26pm

re: #483 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol and this is any better than Uncle Rupert, how?

Rupie did it for profit.

They did it for the Lulz.

Image: lulzsec-lulz.jpg

486 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:23:42pm

re: #480 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri and Mississippi

Oh, they're gonna be squealing like pigs now.

487 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:24:07pm

re: #480 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This is getting embarrassing. It's like watching the cast of the 'Lil Rascals robbing banks and bragging about it on television, while the Keystone Kops are still trying to find their own dicks with both hands and a flashlight. At high noon.

488 Alexzander  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:24:57pm

re: #485 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rupie did it for profit.

They did it for the Lulz.

Image: lulzsec-lulz.jpg

It was an act of Anonymous which is different from Lulsec, although there is likely huge overlap in membership. And they collaborated on Antisec.

489 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:26:43pm

re: #488 Alexzander

It was an act of Anonymous which is different from Lulsec, although there is likely huge overlap in membership. And they collaborated on Antisec.

I thought it was the People's Front of Judea.

Or was it the Judean's Peoples Front?

490 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:29:55pm

re: #62 wrenchwench

Right here:

I was going to highlight some of it, but it's one big whine.

Great response to that on the Vlad Tepes Blog:

Janne Waage Berset says:
August 6, 2011 at 6:24 am

Seriously. You live in the world’s most prosporous countries, you got called in for questioning, had a lawyer present, was not subjected to violence, torture or mistreatment of any kind, you were released after having finished the interview and are now a free man, who by his own choice goes into hiding. The media has held a microphone to your face for days, this so called “censorship” you claim to have been subjected to can no longer be used as an argument. The world is listening, and we are willing to debate. But you are not interested in debate, just propaganda. It baffles me how you fail to see the democratic system in action. Your name, your writings, are the main inspiration for Breivik, the man who slaughtered so many of our children. How would you want a man with an arab surname in your positipon to be treated by the same system? You really do come across as spoiled, immature and unable to understand the democratic system. Your ideas and certainly how you view your treatment, speaks volumes on the damage your ideology would do to this nation. As the good and decent people of Norway now chant: Fjordman couldn’t take it like a man, he needs to change his name to Fjordboy

491 laZardo  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:31:51pm

Gonna attempt to sleep. Nighty.

492 Alexzander  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:32:26pm

re: #489 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I thought it was the People's Front of Judea.

Or was it the Judean's Peoples Front?

In this case I think they are a little different, philosophically (or at least in terms of self-perception).

Lulzsec was "grey hat" with respect to hacker philosophy. There was a mix of nihilism and vengence in their actions. Also a lot of carelessness. From what I heard, they ended their activity when other hackers threatened to out their identities because they were not representing the community helpfully.

Anonymous take themselves more seriously and believe they are actually engaged in plain old social activism, albeit on the digital front. I think both groups are probably composed of 16-23 year old white middle upper class males from "1st world" countries.

493 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:37:08pm

re: #490 000G

Great response to that on the Vlad Tepes Blog:

"How would you want a man with an arab surname in your positipon to be treated by the same system? You really do come across as spoiled, immature and unable to understand the democratic system. Your ideas and certainly how you view your treatment, speaks volumes on the damage your ideology would do to this nation. As the good and decent people of Norway now chant: Fjordman couldn’t take it like a man, he needs to change his name to Fjordboy"

494 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:37:57pm

re: #492 Alexzander

Can't wait to kick in my neighbor's door, start stealing all their private information, and when they look at me askance I can say "What?!? It's Social Activism, bitches"!!!

495 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:38:25pm

re: #484 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ok, thanks. I bet my local video store has it. I'll check tomorrow.

Enjoy. And while I'm not a Tea Party person, you still get points for that right-on Burn Notice-esque line you did tonight.

And now it's bedtime for me. Goodnight, all.

496 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:49:20pm

re: #493 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

My favorite clip. I hear it in my head so often these days.

497 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:52:44pm

re: #496 Slumbering Behemoth

My favorite clip. I hear it in my head so often these days.

[Video]

Keep this one handy as well

Image: cant-tell-if-stupid-or-trolling.jpg

498 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:54:21pm

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

English is language of great enthusiasm and little planning.

Polar opposite of Finnish.

499 Kragar  Sat, Aug 6, 2011 11:55:37pm

re: #498 000G

Polar opposite of Finnish.

Knew a Finnish guy who told me he learned English before Finnish

500 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:07:54am

OMG, you guys have to see this... Mind? Blown. Everything makes perfect sence now.

:sigh:

501 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:11:09am

re: #500 Slumbering Behemoth

OMG, you guys have to see this... Mind? Blown. Everything makes perfect sence now.

:sigh:

Image: cd83d169-c57c-4e79-a808-0b762928d807.jpg

502 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:14:33am

re: #501 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was looking at some of the Futurama clips on YT, and spotted that in the side bar. Watching it, your #497 came to mind.

503 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:22:29am

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm currently a big Christie fan, since he told the creeping shariah nuts to eff off.

The "counterjihadis" now hate him: [Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

504 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:23:41am
The practice of including hidden messages goes right back to the early mickey mouse goofy short animations. it stated [heh] decades ago, and nearly all of their movies contain subliminal references to adult words [wuh?] and even images.

I hate seeing images of adults depicted in film. Fucking Freemasons!

505 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:24:54am

re: #499 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Knew a Finnish guy who told me he learned English before Finnish

Hm. Don't know what to make of that.

Thing is, Finnish writing system has been invented comparitively late, in the 16th century. It's therefore highly consistent with spoken Finnish and avoids a lot of inconsistencies between sound and letters that exist in languages that developed their writing systems much earlier and then over history developed deviations.

506 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:27:01am

re: #505 000G

See also: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

507 Kewalo  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:35:58am

re: #378 marjoriemoon

Liberals have been getting a bit ansy lately to be called liberals. I don't really get that, but "progressive" seems to be the preferred name. IOW, I think PFAW was just being PC when using it.

I was having a little trouble and so I dropped by to see what was going on. I had no intention of posting anything, but I just can't be quiet about this.

I have been a liberal for over 40 years. And while you might not think so, it took a certain amount of courage to speak up and call oneself that just a few years ago. We were called every name in the book for years and while many liberals changed what they called themselves, many of us didn't, and I continued to stand up and said proudly...I am a Liberal. You may not get it, but for those of us who have remained liberal it's important to us... to me. This isn't just a whim. Liberals have done good work for years while the right has vilified them. And I remain a good, JFK Liberal.

John F. Kennedy
35th President
A Liberal Definition by John F. Kennedy:
[Link: www.liberalparty.org...]

Naturally, I got here so late I've probably missed getting this to you, but I feel better after posting it.

508 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:49:22am

re: #504 Slumbering Behemoth

Jebus. That one goes all the way down the rabbit hole, hits bottom, and starts digging. Even the crazy rabbits are saying "Oi! What the fuck are you doing, mate"?

Conspiracy theorists are an odd lot.

509 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:50:24am

re: #507 Kewalo

I was having a little trouble and so I dropped by to see what was going on. I had no intention of posting anything, but I just can't be quiet about this.

I have been a liberal for over 40 years. And while you might not think so, it took a certain amount of courage to speak up and call oneself that just a few years ago. We were called every name in the book for years and while many liberals changed what they called themselves, many of us didn't, and I continued to stand up and said proudly...I am a Liberal. You may not get it, but for those of us who have remained liberal it's important to us... to me. This isn't just a whim. Liberals have done good work for years while the right has vilified them. And I remain a good, JFK Liberal.

John F. Kennedy
35th President
A Liberal Definition by John F. Kennedy:
[Link: www.liberalparty.org...]

Naturally, I got here so late I've probably missed getting this to you, but I feel better after posting it.

the reason i like 'progressive' rather than 'liberal' is that there never has been a significant liberal party in the united states, and generally the definition of what 'liberal' policies would be were rather vague to most americans until ronald reagan spend years taking a big dump on the term and giving it a bad name

on the other hand, progressivism is a definite movement in american history with clearly defined policies. teddy roosevelt ran for president as the head of the progressive party in 1912. this means it's harder for the conservative lie machine to smear progressivism, not that they haven't tried

510 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:51:00am

re: #508 Slumbering Behemoth

Jebus. That one goes all the way down the rabbit hole, hits bottom, and starts digging. Even the crazy rabbits are saying "Oi! What the fuck are you doing, mate"?

Conspiracy theorists are an odd lot.

I see the fnord you had hidden there.

511 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:58:41am

re: #510 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That means you have been Illuminated. Congratulations, you're next up for guard duty at the Lloigor containment facility. Bring plenty of coffee, and at least two large sticks of chalk. And...

DON'T. FUCK. UP.

512 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:11:21am

re: #149 Charles

You Europeans and your weird characters. If you reload it should be fixed now.

While we are at it, why does LGF hate Russian letters?

Сирийские войска начали штурм мятежного города
Сирийские войска рано утром 7 августа начали наступление на город Дейр аз-Заур на северо-востоке страны. По данным правозащитных организаций, в операции по штурму города участвуют около 250 танков и бронированных машин. Какой-либо информации о погибших в столкновениях к настоящему моменту нет.

513 Kewalo  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:13:16am

re: #509 engineer dog

Doc? you have every right to call yourself anything you want. I don't have a problem with it. I just remember when we were trying to get the ERA passed and phyllis schlafly was on the stump against us, there wasn't a progressive in sight. And if I sound a little snarky, well, I apologize, but that's just how I feel. You might think that progressives were a definite movement, but I'm serious when I say, I never met one until the last 5 yrs.

But what the hell, if we can just all get together and get those MF's out of office I couldn't care less what you call yourself. But I remain a good liberal and after putting up with all the nastiness from the right for so many years, I guess I get to choose who I am too.

514 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:14:23am

re: #510 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I see the fnord you had hidden there.

Fnordman would be a good user id.

515 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:14:38am

re: #512 Sergey Romanov

I have a feeling some script somewhere splits Unicode in half after 13 1-byte characters...

516 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:16:19am

re: #512 Sergey Romanov

That's nothing but fnords. Lloigor lover!

517 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:17:35am

re: #513 Kewalo

Doc? you have every right to call yourself anything you want. I don't have a problem with it. I just remember when we were trying to get the ERA passed and phyllis schlafly was on the stump against us, there wasn't a progressive in sight. And if I sound a little snarky, well, I apologize, but that's just how I feel. You might think that progressives were a definite movement, but I'm serious when I say, I never met one until the last 5 yrs.

But what the hell, if we can just all get together and get those MF's out of office I couldn't care less what you call yourself. But I remain a good liberal and after putting up with all the nastiness from the right for so many years, I guess I get to choose who I am too.

oh, i had no intention of picking a fight or insulting you at all - sorry if it seemed that way

actually, i really think that there's any difference these days between people who call themselves liberals and those who call themselves progressives

we are all just the sane and compassionate people of the united states

518 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:17:52am

re: #516 Slumbering Behemoth

That's nothing but . Lloigor lover!

Nothing but what? You missed a word there?

519 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:19:40am

p.s., wicksterpedia article on the progressive movement

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

520 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:20:00am

re: #518 Sergey Romanov

Heh.

Forget I said anything.

521 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:20:40am

actually, i really think

pimf

i really don't think there's any difference

522 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:20:50am

What? Where am I? Who am I?

523 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:22:30am

re: #519 engineer dog

From that link:

"Many (but not all) Progressives supported prohibition..."

I hate you guys already.
/

524 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:24:57am

Glad that LGF has changed: [Link: www.metafilter.com...]

"Gem" from there:

If you read carefully what I'm saying, I am also advocating expelling a significant proportion of the Muslims who are already here. " - Fjordman

525 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:27:32am

re: #523 Slumbering Behemoth

From that link:

"Many (but not all) Progressives supported prohibition..."

I hate you guys already.
/

yes, there's no denying that prohibition was the low point of the progressive movement

the original progressives were condescending to working class people, as well

look, my point is not that i think i am teddy roosevelt and that i want to be like the progressives of 100 years ago, it's that ronald reagan dirtied the good name of liberalism, so calling ourselves progressives is a way of reclaiming the validity of opposing wingnuts, sociopathic morons, and christianists

i just find it easier to go under the name of progressive because it's harder for republicans to dump on

i repeat, i don't think there's any ideological difference implied by whatever us non-conservatives call ourselves these days

526 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:28:42am

re: #525 engineer dog

ok, i wouldn't have been so strident if i had taken note of the sarc tag

527 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:30:09am

re: #524 000G

Glad that LGF has changed: [Link: www.metafilter.com...]

"Gem" from there:

Upon reflection, it's better that I wasn't here much after the '04 election. From all appearances, this place went to hell in a handbasket before The Great Flouncing cleared out most of the riff-raff.

528 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:30:30am

re: #524 000G

Glad that LGF has changed: [Link: www.metafilter.com...]

"Gem" from there:

I should have quoted that in full:

"I've said many, many times already that this is a world war. That probably became inevitable the second we allowed Muslims to settle in our lands. The question is how bloody this war is going to be, and whether the West will survive.

If you read carefully what I'm saying, I am also advocating expelling a significant proportion of the Muslims who are already here. " - Fjordman

The LGF thread that comment is supposed to come from is apparently no longer live.

529 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:31:45am

re: #526 engineer dog

Respect the sarc tag. RESPECTIT!

530 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:33:28am

Fjordy approvingly quoting someone else:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

11 Fjordman Mon, Apr 10, 2006 7:25:46am replyquote

Good morning. There was a Pakistani ex-Muslim in the Netherlands years ago who wrote a book warning the "gullible" Dutch against the dangers posed by Muslim immigration.The book was banned as "racism" and "hate speech." If his book had been widely circulated and read, maybe Pim Fortuyn and The van Gogh would have been alive today. This book is forgotten by most people today, but it is one of the best cases I have seen against "hate speech" laws:

Banning speech - banning prophesy

in 1990. A man called Mohamed Rasul wrote a book called: "De ondergang van Nederlands - Het land van de naiëve dwazen" or "The coming downfall of the Netherlands - The nation of gullible fools". The author, a Pakistani called Mohammed Rasoel or Mohamed Rasul wrote a short book on the threat of Islam, the treat of importing millions of Muslims into a nation and a culture that had gone too soft to defend itself. The book was published in 1990.

Rasul prophesies: by taking the negative of Nazism as a blueprint of society, the gullible Dutch will eventually end up at the same station as the Jews. The Dutch are so scared of treating other like the Nazis treated Jews that they will be like the Jews themselves. Rasul was prooved right. He was attacked by Dutch journalists and academics for his stance on Islam and Muslims. He appeared in talk shows in disguise. The Anne Frank Foundation, whose directors were the high priest keeping the mysteries of the cult of Anne Frank, guardians of the taboo of the Holocaust sued Rasul in 1992. Rasul was convicted of "discriminating Muslims" of making "sweeping statements against Muslims". Rasul´s commentary:

"It proves that the general thrust of my book is correct, that Dutch society is changing and becoming less tolerant. Freedom of opinion is already being sacrificed. I don't blame this state attorney, he is a nice man but rather dumb and naïve like most Dutchmen. . . . Muslims are allowed to shout: kill Rushdie. . . . When Muslims say on TV that all Dutch women are whores, it is allowed. . . . It is ridiculous and scandalous that I have to justify myself in court for discrimination of Muslims."

531 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:38:42am

re: #530 Sergey Romanov

From the same blog Fjordy promoted:

[Link: www.islamineurope.net...]

Around the Western world constant propaganda hammers the idea in people's heads that
1. All white particularism is similar to German's s National-Socialism;
2. National-Socialism leads to Massacres of ethno-cultural outsiders, Jews etc.
3. These Massacres are the greatest crimes in the history of man.

In fact an entire civil religion and cult has been organised around the Holocaust. This is a major obstacle to those who propagate rights for White people. Modern culture provides people with buttons that can be pushed, whenever Rights of White people or misdeeds of non-whites come up in discussion.

532 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:40:06am

white particularism

what a peculiar phrase

533 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:40:13am

re: #528 000G

Gotta expand on this a bit. The reasoning is just so deliciously insane, like a logical casu marzu:

1. Islam versus the rest of the world is a world war, according to Fjordm. A

world war!

And he said it "many times", thus he really, really believes in it, or he is a very, very passionate propagandist. The first one would be scary on a Breivik level, the second one is just slightly less scary.

2. This supposed world war was inevitable (with the caveat "probably") "the second we allowed Muslims to settle in our lands". "We" = non-muslim natives, I presume. So the act of "allowing" people from other faiths to settle – not the settlement itself, mind you, but somehow making it legal – on land hitherto populated by people of non-muslim faith only made this alleged world war inevitable. Nevermind seperation of church and state and all of that.

3. So this "war" is now happening because of this allowing of muslim immigration, and I guess it can only be stopped by disallowing it, and the level of its future bloodiness can only be affected by a directly proportional number of deportations of muslims already living here. Where to? Fjordman won't say; his half-baked genocidal fantasies kinda remind me of Helen Thomas, though.

534 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:40:33am

Even better:

[Link: www.islamineurope.net...]

Snouck said...

JMaria:
It is interesting to realize that as in former Soviet Union, "mental illness" will be their precious weapon against people we oppose them. In fact nowadays a Belgian citizen has been questioned by Police because he has been "too interested" with Holocaust revisionism, he has been freed with the condition of going to the doctor to "heal his mental illness".

Snouck:
Bukovsky himself was indeed diagnosed as a mental case. Can you give me a source for that Belgian?

I think indeed that the people who deal with revisionism in a society are eccentrics. You have to be a person of VERY strong convictions to go against the grain. There is no clearly demarcated border between sanity and insanity.

I just downloaded and read David Irvings book on General Rommel (1978). I am a history buff especially Second World War. Irving is not Insane. His treatment of General Rommel is the best I read sofar.

He also, on the sides deals with the atrocities commited by the Nazis, were it is relevant for the history on Rommel.

So how can he be a denier if he deals with atrocities in a book on a different subject. Possibly he is just refrasing stuff on the Nazi war crimes and even THAT is criminalised.

Unfortunately it takes a huge amount of time to form a well-founded opinion on these matters.

*facepalm*

535 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:43:11am

re: #530 Sergey Romanov

Fjordy approvingly quoting someone else:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

A holocaust denier. Lovely. /

536 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:43:59am

re: #532 engineer dog

white particularism

what a peculiar phrase

The heartbreak of dandruff.

537 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:44:03am

in 1990. A man called Mohamed Rasul wrote a book called: "De ondergang van Nederlands - Het land van de naiëve dwazen" or "The coming downfall of the Netherlands - The nation of gullible fools". The author, a Pakistani called Mohammed Rasoel or Mohamed Rasul wrote a short book on the threat of Islam

coincidentally

The bandits' chieftain was flamboyant, black-bearded Mulai Ahmed er Raisuli, and he wanted to extort a heavy ransom from the Sultan of Morocco -- not to mention embarrass the sovereign by showing his powerlessness to protect foreign citizens.

This was more than a simple kidnapping in a distant land. For President Theodore Roosevelt, it was an opportunity to start waving his "big stick," sending battleships steaming toward the African coast to ensure Perdicaris' safe release.

It also gave Roosevelt the chance to issue one of his most blood-curdling proclamations, a statement that helped ensure his re-election while sending Americans wild with joy:

"Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!"

538 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:45:30am

re: #535 000G

I don't mean to imply that Fjordy is one, of course, but it's a dogs/fleas story.

539 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:46:26am

re: #531 Sergey Romanov

From the same blog Fjordy promoted:

Identical to Breivik's ramblings about "the holocaust religion":

My problem with holocaust denial however is the European cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elite’s refusal to acknowledge the Christian,
Hindu, Buddhist, Zoroastrian genocides by the hand of the Islamic Ummah.

Islam has systematically slaughtered more than 300 million people since its creation and this trend is continuing every year (see the continuation of
the Assyrian, Coptic, Maronite, Hindu genocides in the Middle East). The
politically correct elites of the EUSSR/USASSR are the true holocaust
deniers as they refuse to acknowledge current and historical Islamic atrocities.

Furthermore, while I oppose deniers of the Jewish holocaust I realise that
the “holocaust religion” is an extremely destructive force in Europe. Today,
European youths are systematically brainwashed and made into pacifist
eunuchs (school classes being bussed to former concentration camps and taught to reject their culture, pride etc.). Our elites, backed by the
EUSSR/USASSR cultural hegemony, are stripping away any sense of pride and honor from European youths in a deliberate scheme to feminise/pacify them in order to prevent future Nazi movements from emerging. The problem here is that we are left with little to none cultural defenses against any force which would want to conquer us.

This is why the Islamic Ummah have been taken advantage of our lack of cultural defenses and are currently colonising us, facilitated by our traitorous cultural Marxist/multiculturalist elites. The “holocaust religion” has grown into a destructive anti-European monster, which prevents nationalistic doctrines from emerging. And without nationalistic doctrines, Europe will wither and die, which we are seeing today. It’s quite ironic that Even Israel would appear to have become a victim of it. Needless to say, while I am a strong supporter of Israel and of all patriotic Jews I acknowledge that the anti-European holocaust religion must be deconstructed, and instead replaced with an anti-Islamic version. After all we are talking about a disproportion of 6 million killed Jews vs. 300 million massacred Jews/Christians/Hindus/Buddhists/Zoroastrians/Animists.

As of now, the “holocaust religion” is one of the major factors that are making Europe vulnerable and susceptible for Islamic conquest through demographical warfare.

540 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:47:28am

re: #536 Slumbering Behemoth

The heartbreak of dandruff.

for some reason that reminds me of the ads that i used to see in the buses in nyc:

"rosalind snitow, victima de hemorroides"

541 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:48:37am

I give up. After a long debate my wife, I realize there is no way to explain to a woman the difference between a bad movie and a terrible movie that is fun to watch.

542 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:49:17am

re: #538 Sergey Romanov

I don't mean to imply that Fjordy is one, of course, but it's a dogs/fleas story.

Yes, I got that. If you don't show enough sensibility to NOT approvingly quote texts that contain outright holocaust denial without distancing yourself from that, you need to practice more before making public statements.

543 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:50:39am

re: #541 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I give up. After a long debate my wife, I realize there is no way to explain to a woman the difference between a bad movie and a terrible movie that is fun to watch.

544 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:53:16am

The Love Blog quote du jour:

The Powers That Be want Fjordman out of the picture, and the killings in Norway provided a convenient pretext to take him down.

FEAR THE POWERS THAT BE!

545 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 1:55:11am

re: #543 000G

[Video]

546 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:00:48am

re: #545 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[Video]

547 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:02:13am

re: #541 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I give up. After a long debate my wife, I realize there is no way to explain to a woman the difference between a bad movie and a terrible movie that is fun to watch.

So sad, the inability to see the funny inherent in fail...

I was ready on day one to Shaymalan's "The Happening" based solely on this phenomenon. I was not disappointed.

548 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:03:33am

re: #545 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

re: #546 000G

You've seen nothing.

549 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:04:09am

re: #546 000G

[Video]

550 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:05:26am

re: #549 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[Video]

Hey! Hands off the classic! /

551 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:08:32am

re: #550 Sergey Romanov

Hey! Hands off the classic! /

Riddle me this? When did they go from Russian Santa and Buck Rogers costumes to Capt Jack and the Pirates of the Caribbean?

552 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:09:22am

re: #548 Sergey Romanov

re: #546 000G

You've seen nothing.

[Video]

Looks and sounds to me like every music video out of Germany I ever saw.

Needs more R. Stevie Moore:

553 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:11:35am

On the other hand, we now know the song that Tenacious D were singing about in "Tribute"

554 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:11:51am

re: #544 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Powers That Be...

- A cheese log (encrusted with shaved almonds, of course)
- A quarter can of motor oil with a dead spider floating in it
- Aunt Edna's old copy of "Atlas Shrugged", in which she scribbled crude, pornographic, stick figure images on every page

Never was there a more diabolical, more nefarious trio of powers aligned with the sole dedication of making the Super-Blogger Fjordman look like poodle-headed, pansy fascist.

555 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:13:06am

re: #554 Slumbering Behemoth

The Powers That Be...

- A cheese log (encrusted with shaved almonds, of course)
- A quarter can of motor oil with a dead spider floating in it
- Aunt Edna's old copy of "Atlas Shrugged", in which she scribbled crude, pornographic, stick figure images on every page

Never was there a more diabolical, more nefarious trio of powers aligned with the sole dedication of making the Super-Blogger Fjordman look like poodle-headed, pansy fascist.

Don't underestimate the Pentaverate!

556 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:14:43am

re: #552 000G

Looks and sounds to me like every music video out of Germany I ever saw.

Well, that guy turned out to be a rapist of underage girls. Why am I not surprised? Pedo smile?

Needs more R. Stevie Moore:

[Video]

Boooring. Something more lively - Takezhan from Kazakhstan:

557 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:20:24am

re: #555 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That character was the only good thing about that movie, IMO.

BTW, how many sides does a pyramid have?

558 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:20:30am

re: #513 Kewalo

Doc? you have every right to call yourself anything you want. I don't have a problem with it. I just remember when we were trying to get the ERA passed and phyllis schlafly was on the stump against us, there wasn't a progressive in sight. And if I sound a little snarky, well, I apologize, but that's just how I feel. You might think that progressives were a definite movement, but I'm serious when I say, I never met one until the last 5 yrs.

But what the hell, if we can just all get together and get those MF's out of office I couldn't care less what you call yourself. But I remain a good liberal and after putting up with all the nastiness from the right for so many years, I guess I get to choose who I am too.

I called myself "progressive" throughout the 90s until around a decade ago, when "liberals" started running from the label, for whatever their reasons. I did so, because "progressive" was supposed to be even more liberal than the liberals e_e.

I started referring to myself as "liberal" around that time, especially as Anybody-but-Bush and trootherism began to creep into so-called "progressive" politics. Today, I've broken pretty severely with the so-called "progressives" as they now seem to me to be ABB stragglers, disgruntled D-voting PUMAs and complainers of every stripe. I don't recognize any of these socalled progressives.

So "liberal" it is for the moment. If some RWNJ tries to smear me as a "progressive" or "liberal", I really just don't give a crud. I feel exactly the same about these "progressives" who label me Obama apologist, Zionist stooge, Republican-lite or other stupidity-based epithets.

Not that any fingerpointing namecaller would care, but my basic politics haven't changed all that much. Typically, those kinds of people have all manner of filthy epithets for us, anyway. So their attempts to make 4-letter words out of political definitions just reveals their lacking sense of self, joiner/conformist mentality and basic moral bankruptcy.

They can go eff off.

559 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:21:54am

re: #557 Slumbering Behemoth

That character was the only good thing about that movie, IMO.

BTW, how many sides does a pyramid have?

5.

front, back, left, right, bottom.

560 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:23:31am

Wife and I saw the cops out in force tonight, finally found out why;

Cop shot in head at stoplight

A San Diego police officer was shot in the head Saturday in an apparent unprovoked attack, officials said. A suspect died later following a shootout with police.

The San Diego Union-Tribune reported that the officer was wounded as he waited at a stoplight alongside a vehicle suspected of being involved in a shooting hours earlier.

KGTV reported that the officer had suffered a shotgun wound. The officer, whose name was not released, was in critical condition at Scripps Mercy Hospital.

561 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:23:58am

re: #559 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ah! You've earned the honor of a double shift. Bring more chalk.

562 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:24:47am

Pretty good, interesting article by Tabish Khair in The Hindu:

The germs of madness

Of course, multiculturalism has moved from being the panacea of the lazy politician to becoming the Devil for virulent ones all across Europe today. I never liked the first version of multiculturalism, as it appeared to be largely the result of political convenience. In the booming post-war decades when Europe needed cheap labour for reconstruction, multiculturalism was purloined from academia and repeated as a mantra by lazy politicians: It could be used to justify and manipulate cheap non-European labour as well as make over-spending European middle classes feel good about their excursions into ethnic garments and cuisine. More than that it seldom was — even in England and France.

Now, with the boom pricked and unemployment figures rising, suddenly a stripe of politicians from England to Germany and Holland have discovered that multiculturalism does not work. How convenient!

The problem is not just that multiculturalism could not work, for, it was never formulated with an honest desire to confront problems and advantages without eulogising or demonising other peoples. The problem is that this dismissal feeds into Rightist and racists assumptions about the supposed ‘ purity' of national cultures or ‘Europe'. Such assumptions are historically as untrue as the Islamist myth of religious purity and an Islamic golden age. It is such myths — not ‘multiculturalism' — that create a Breivik. ‘ Multiculturalism', however defective, was a necessary antidote to such genocidal myths of ‘purity'.

Europe's problem of subterranean xenophobia is different from that of the US: it is less individual and more structural. I admire the social welfare systems that distinguish European nations from the US, and yet this difference is at the heart of Europe's xenophobia. Given its colonial advantages of market and wealth, early insertion into industrialisation and capitalism as well as radical thinkers and movements (trade unions) on the one side and progressive conservatives and liberals on the other, European countries started moving towards social welfare states in the late 19th century and mostly achieved them around the mid-20th. This historic European compromise between Labour and Capitalists enabled European capital to move more or less freely but protected European workers, raising them effectively to the middle class in places like Scandinavia.

But it was based on a contradiction, because Capitalism is — even by liberal definition — based on the free movement of both capital and labour. And despite political rhetoric, international labour is far less free to move than global capital. In a globalising world, European states can protect the ‘social welfare' privileges of their citizens only by manipulating the exclusion of non-European workers who try to follow capital to better wages. While European wealth accrues from the relatively free movement of capital across borders, European welfares are seen as based on strong controls imposed on the movement of non-European labour.

Hence, the European right with its worries about ‘identity' and the European left with its worries about falling wages. Both basically do not want other workers — except a few who are highly educated and pay their way in after getting their home countries, like India, to subsidise their high education — from other ‘cultures' in Europe anymore. Unspoken xenophobia is the vampire that stalks the mansion of European social welfare prosperity. The US might be defective, but it has a more honest structure.

Don't agree with all of it. But share-worthy.

563 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:28:37am

re: #556 Sergey Romanov

Boooring. Something more lively - Takezhan from Kazakhstan:

[Link: youtu.be...]

Pft.

564 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:29:14am

re: #561 Slumbering Behemoth

Ah! You've earned the honor of a double shift. Bring more chalk.

What do I win when I reveal that the biggest conspiracy of all is the fact that no one on Earth thinks Conspiracy theorists are important enough to develop an elaborate conspiracy for?

565 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:31:54am

re: #563 000G

Pft.

[Video]

Meh.

566 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:35:28am

re: #556 Sergey Romanov

Boooring. Something more lively - Takezhan from Kazakhstan:

[Link: youtu.be...]

More a fan of Uighur, here:

567 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:37:53am

re: #564 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A prominent position in the forefront of the Immanentization.

568 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:38:11am

re: #566 000G

Good one.

569 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:39:08am

re: #566 000G

More a fan of Uighur, here:

[Video]

570 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:40:39am

re: #567 Slumbering Behemoth

A prominent position in the forefront of the Immanentization.

Sweet.

571 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:51:26am

re: #566 000G

Gawt damn! I have no intent to offend anyone's musical sensibilities, but that is metal as fuck! Add a Marshall stack and a distortion pedal, and you've got early Iron Maiden there. But more hardcore.

Thanks for sharing that.

572 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:56:59am

re: #544 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Love Blog quote du jour:

FEAR THE POWERS THAT BE!


Apropos "love blog": Blast from the past – guess who wrote the GoV takedown of Chris Christie referenced in 503? Fellow by the name of Dymphna. And in what seems to be one of her earliest posts on LGF she does what? Pimping a GoV article un-ironically titled "In Defense of Hatred".

What goes around comes around, I guess. And with that, I must leave.

573 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:58:04am

re: #572 000G

Apropos "love blog": Blast from the past – guess who wrote the GoV takedown of Chris Christie referenced in 503? Fellow by the name of Dymphna. And in what seems to be one of her earliest posts on LGF she does what? Pimping a GoV article un-ironically titled "In Defense of Hatred".

What goes around comes around, I guess. And with that, I must leave.

Heh, good find.

574 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:17:39am

zzzzz

575 researchok  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:18:20am

Morning, all

576 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:23:46am

Morning honcos.

577 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:29:00am

Good morning. Welcome to the "Fascist Ideology of 'Fjordman' thread". Please, feel like at home.
///

578 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:30:53am

re: #577 Sergey Romanov

Good morning. Welcome to the "Fascist Ideology of 'Fjordman' thread". Please, feel like at home.
///

Pants optional

579 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:31:50am
580 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:35:16am

re: #566 000G

Seriously, I've watched that vid several times now.

I hope the promoter took out insurance on that stage, 'cuz dude is tearing that bitch up. Very bad ass.

581 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:10:54am

Oh gee. Shiropayev/Lazarenko react to the Israeli 10th channel report on them (based on my research): [Link: nazdem.info...]

Quite laughable excuses there. Swastikas were just a part of Indo-European rituals, don't you know!

582 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:12:04am
sneaking back in…

re: #580 Slumbering Behemoth

Seriously, I've watched that vid several times now.

I hope the promoter took out insurance on that stage, 'cuz dude is tearing that bitch up. Very bad ass.

The performer's name is Abdurehim Heyit, just in case you want to go and find more from him.

sneaking back out…

584 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:19:01am

re: #583 Sergey Romanov

Totally NSFW.

585 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:20:29am

re: #584 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

oh

586 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:29:28am

re: #582 000G

Nice banjo but it sounds foreign. This is the U. S. of A damnit!:

587 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:30:11am

re: #583 Sergey Romanov

Totally NSFW.

Tea Bagger!

588 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:34:07am

Good Morning Honcos!!

589 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:39:36am

re: #588 rwdflynavy

Good Morning Honcos!!

That's a matter of opinion. I'm dumping a kidney stone w/ slow meds, and that's just the second-worst thing about the day. Might do an "Old Man Bitching About Medicine" thing on one of those new-fangled pages. I've got to get it into the proper political perspective when the drugs clear.

590 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:43:37am

re: #589 Decatur Deb

That's a matter of opinion. I'm dumping a kidney stone w/ slow meds, and that's just the second-worst thing about the day. Might do an "Old Man Bitching About Medicine" thing on one of those new-fangled pages. I've got to get it into the proper political perspective when the drugs clear.

An old boss of mine had stones. He didn't have insurance so the doctor gave him a script of hydrocodone, told him to go home, sit in a tub and drink Gatorade. The next time he got them he had insurance. Turns out IV's are the way to go. And while I've never had them, I know they suck. Best to ya....

591 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:43:48am

re: #589 Decatur Deb

That's a matter of opinion. I'm dumping a kidney stone w/ slow meds, and that's just the second-worst thing about the day. Might do an "Old Man Bitching About Medicine" thing on one of those new-fangled pages. I've got to get it into the proper political perspective when the drugs clear.

If you do make sure you go into excruciating detail. Also, an update on your bowel movement schedule would help put everything into perspective.

592 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:44:34am

re: #591 RogueOne

If you do make sure you go into excruciating detail. Also, an update on your bowel movement schedule would help put everything into perspective.

He poops at 5 and wakes up at 6.
/

593 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:45:36am

re: #592 Cannadian Club Akbar

He poops at 5 and wakes up at 6.
/

Right now I's settle for that. (Slipping into TMI-land.)

594 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:45:39am

re: #592 Cannadian Club Akbar

He poops at 5 and wakes up at 6.
/

Nothing turns an old man into a kid faster than a poop joke.

595 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:45:47am

re: #589 Decatur Deb

That's a matter of opinion. I'm dumping a kidney stone w/ slow meds, and that's just the second-worst thing about the day. Might do an "Old Man Bitching About Medicine" thing on one of those new-fangled pages. I've got to get it into the proper political perspective when the drugs clear.

Ouch! Getting Old isn't for sissies!

596 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:48:56am

re: #593 Decatur Deb

Right now I's settle for that. (Slipping into TMI-land.)

Maybe someday I'll tell the story about a friend of mine who OD'd on Ex lax right before going out to dinner. Heh.

597 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:49:25am

re: #595 rwdflynavy

Ouch! Getting Old isn't for sissies!

Right now there's a crazy old vet trying to do it in an alley somewhere, with nothing better than cheap booze. Pisses me off.

598 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:54:10am

re: #596 Cannadian Club Akbar

Maybe someday I'll tell the story about a friend of mine who OD'd on Ex lax right before going out to dinner. Heh.

I have one of those stories. It includes a lower GI test, a super suppository, a trip to the airport, and a hot nurse. Have you eaten breakfast yet?

599 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:54:15am

I don't know who started this, but I blame Darth.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

600 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:55:58am

re: #598 RogueOne

I have one of those stories. It includes a lower GI test, a super suppository, a trip to the airport, and a hot nurse. Have you eaten breakfast yet?

Oh, do tell. And type slowly when talking about the hot nurse.

601 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:57:38am

Cave Johnson quotes from Portal 2

Funny stuff even if you haven't played the game. The voice actor is J.K. Simmons.

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

602 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 4:57:43am

re: #599 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't know who started this, but I blame Darth.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

"...snip..
Giants first baseman Aubrey Huff was in the middle of the scrum and Phillies leadoff man Jimmy Rollins shoved San.."

Who the hell sent the Rugby intern to do a baseball story?

603 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:06:43am
604 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:12:49am

Time to go whimper for a while--BBL.

605 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:12:55am

Baseball, yuck.

606 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:16:40am

re: #586 RogueOne

Nice banjo but it sounds foreign. This is the U. S. of A damnit!:

[Video]

607 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:17:46am

re: #605 Sergey Romanov

Baseball, yuck.

If Fidel could have thrown a nice slider or change up, Cuba might not be communist. Just sayin'.:)

608 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:18:41am

re: #606 Sergey Romanov

[Video]

This is why terrorists hate us, our shitty culture is taking over the world. First it was KFC and McDonalds, and now banjos. We're asking for it.

609 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:19:01am

re: #607 Cannadian Club Akbar

If Fidel could have thrown a nice slider or change up, Cuba might not be communist. Just sayin'.:)

That's witch speak, stop it.

610 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:23:27am

re: #608 RogueOne

This is why terrorists hate us, our shitty culture is taking over the world. First it was KFC and McDonalds, and now banjos. We're asking for it.

The next terror target.
[Link: www.americanbanjomuseum.com...]

611 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:36:28am

re: #610 Cannadian Club Akbar

The next terror target.
[Link: www.americanbanjomuseum.com...]

For some reason one year my dad bought my mom a banjo for xmas. Mom grew up in Detroit during the Motown years. Worst gift ever.

612 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:42:26am

When serial killers post on Craig's List, this is what it looks like.
/
[Link: sarasota.craigslist.org...]

613 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:43:40am

re: #612 Cannadian Club Akbar

When serial killers post on Craig's List, this is what it looks like.
/
[Link: sarasota.craigslist.org...]

I used to have one we used as a hat/coat rack.

614 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:45:16am

re: #613 RogueOne

I used to have one we used as a hat/coat rack.

I had a styrofoam head used for wigs. I put it in the sunroof of my Baja Bug and drove around with it.

615 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:49:37am

Muslim radicals:

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

The film's set up sounds familiar enough – a meek Muslim student named Yusef joins a hardcore Islamic commune in upstate New York and becomes radicalised. But this time, "hardcore" refers to punk rock. This is a commune where one Muslim, Jahangir, sports a red mohawk and announces morning prayers with an electric guitar. Another member is gay and wears a skirt and makeup. The bands that congregate there have names such as Osama's Tunnel Diggers and Boxcutter Surprise. They drink beer and smoke pot, and among them is a spitfire feminist in a burqa – complete with a Dead Kennedys patch – who freely redacts chunks of the Qur'an with a marker pen. "That ayah advises men to beat their wives," she says, about a contested verse in the holy book. "So what do I need that for?"

616 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:52:20am

bbiab....

617 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 5:55:13am

re: #615 RogueOne

Dead Kennedys: Police Truck

618 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:21:16am

re: #617 RogueOne

No-sir-ree jack, we're just givin' tickets.

619 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:22:06am

A Russian goes to Chicago:

[Link: bit.ly...]

620 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:22:51am

Riots in the UK and I haven't seen Iceweasel in days....coincidence?

Tottenham Riot: The Police Seemed Helpless, Witnesses Say
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...]

This is now a punk thread:

Sex Pistols - Anarchy In The UK

621 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:30:00am

More from the HuffPo:

Jobs

622 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:37:24am

re: #621 RogueOne

More from the HuffPo:

Jobs

[Video]

Semantic satiation

Science!

623 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:44:52am

re: #534 Sergey Romanov

Even better:

*facepalm*

Eh. Irving was writing about Rommel for the normal reason that has made Rommel the most written-about WWII German general: Erwin Rommel did not serve of the Eastern Front. Rommel wasn't some nonpareil: Fritz von Manstein and Heinz Guderian were also superb tactically and even better that Rommel strategically. But, like any German leaders of large formations on the Eastern Front, they were also both war criminals. They enabled, and in von Manstein's case actively ordered, murders of civilians, mistreatment and murder of POWs, and genocide. Rommel is chosen for emulation because he does not bear the taint of the Eastern Front.

624 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:46:04am

re: #621 RogueOne

More from the HuffPo:

Jobs

[Video]

PIVOT!!!!

625 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:49:10am

re: #623 Dark_Falcon

Yeah. Also, Irving was more or less a worthy historian for some time. To bring up his earlier works in order to show that he is not a denier now is the worst demagoguery possible.

626 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:51:41am

re: #624 Cannadian Club Akbar

PIVOT!!!

[Link: 1.bp.blogspot.com...]

627 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:53:25am

re: #626 RogueOne

[Link: 1.bp.blogspot.com...]

I've had that look before. It means "ball going into the water or woods".
:)

628 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:54:44am

re: #625 Sergey Romanov

Yeah. Also, Irving was more or less a worthy historian for some time. To bring up his earlier works in order to show that he is not a denier now is the worst demagoguery possible.

Concur. It's like using a paper Frank Gaffney wrote in 2002 to argue that he hasn't been acting like a crazy person since 2008. No one's saying this person didn't have worthwhile things to say back then, but now they've become irretrievably tainted by the stench of conspiracy theories and lies.

629 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 6:55:57am

re: #623 Dark_Falcon

Eh. Irving was writing about Rommel for the normal reason that has made Rommel the most written-about WWII German general: Erwin Rommel did not serve on the Eastern Front. Rommel wasn't some nonpareil: Fritz von Manstein and Heinz Guderian were also superb tactically and even better that Rommel strategically. But, like any German leaders of large formations on the Eastern Front, they were also both war criminals. They enabled, and in von Manstein's case actively ordered, murders of civilians, mistreatment and murder of POWs, and genocide. Rommel is chosen for emulation because he does not bear the taint of the Eastern Front.

PIMF

630 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:04:42am

re: #627 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've had that look before. It means "ball going into the water or woods".
:)

Also means
"the group of old men behind us just hit me in the ass without yelling FORE"

631 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:06:32am

re: #630 sattv4u2

Also means
"the group of old men behind us just hit me in the ass without yelling FORE"

I had a friend who would tee off if the group in front of us took to long. Fuckin' douche. He's dead now.

632 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:06:51am

re: #621 RogueOne

More from the HuffPo:

Jobs

[Video]

Thank goodness he's taking it seriously!!!!

633 sattv4u2  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:08:02am

re: #631 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a friend who would tee off if the group in front of us took to long. Fuckin' douche. He's dead now.

I find that hard to beleive

NO,, not that he did that AND NO not because he's dead

Whats hard to believe is you had a friend!!

634 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:11:27am

re: #633 sattv4u2

I find that hard to beleive

NO,, not that he did that AND NO not because he's dead

Whats hard to believe is you had a friend!!

SMACK!

635 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:22:28am

Going out to get some breakfast.

636 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:27:16am

'Anonymous' Hacker Group Claims Attacks on U.S. Law Enforcement Websites
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]


LITTLE ROCK, Ark. – The group known as Anonymous said Saturday it hacked into some 70 mostly rural law enforcement websites in the United States, a data breach that at least one local police chief said leaked sensitive information about an ongoing investigation.
....
Tim Mayfield, a police chief in Gassville, Ark., told The Associated Press that some of the material posted online -- including pictures of teenage girls in their swimsuits -- was sent to him as part of an ongoing investigation. He declined to provide more details.

Huh?

637 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:30:06am

re: #636 RogueOne

'Anonymous' Hacker Group Claims Attacks on U.S. Law Enforcement Websites
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Huh?

I can believe this. I have some woman on woman porn sent to me in an ongoing investigation.
/

638 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 7:49:32am

bbiab...

639 otoc  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:02:04am

re: #1 Sergey Romanov

Thank you, that's great research, and helpful for countering the apologists.

+1

640 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:03:56am

re: #620 RogueOne

Riots in the UK and I haven't seen Iceweasel in days...coincidence?

Tottenham Riot: The Police Seemed Helpless, Witnesses Say
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...]

This is now a punk thread:

Sex Pistols - Anarchy In The UK

[Video]

Ahem.

641 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:11:33am

Crazy.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

642 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:17:41am

re: #16 Thanos

Yes, most tribal supremacists, nativists, dominionists, and fascists espouse some form of "sovereign" blood and soil swill as justification for overruling the legal democratic government via the mechanism of local rights superseding all else: state, county, city, tribe, church enclave, etc.

The view from inside of their heads, as satirically portrayed by Laibach:

643 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:19:57am

Ed Morrisey: Was the downgrade a rejection of ObamaCare?

Uh...no Dipshit. Healthcare reform actually reduces the deficit by about 1 trillion dollars over the next 20 years. Wingnuts are determined to avoid learning their lesson.

644 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:20:34am

re: #643 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey: Was the downgrade a rejection of ObamaCare?

Uh...no Dipshit. Healthcare reform actually reduces the deficit by about 1 trillion dollars over the next 20 years. Wingnuts are determined to avoid learning their lesson.

Personal Responsibility!

645 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:21:48am

re: #641 Varek Raith

Crazy.
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

He was wearing a safety harness, the wuss.

646 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:22:36am

re: #645 RogueOne

He was wearing a safety harness, the wuss.

Good thing, eh?
:P

647 RogueOne  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:23:42am

re: #646 Varek Raith

Good thing, eh?
:P

OSHA. He was looking at a stiff fine if he hadn't.

648 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:24:40am

re: #637 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can believe this. I have some woman on woman porn sent to me in an ongoing investigation.
/

This is FBI. We're taking over this case.

649 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:26:26am

re: #642 Jimmah

The view from inside of their heads, as satirically portrayed by Laibach:

[Video]

Leben
pam-pam pam pa-pam
Leben heisst Leben
pam-pam pam pa-pam

651 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:30:30am

re: #481 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The song Breivik sings has been directly sampled from USA rwnj talking points.

Multiculturalism is evil and scary

Liberalism, women's rights, gay rights, anyone's rights are emasculating poor, put-upon conservative males who are no longer permitted to rule us with iron fists

Muslims are foreign influences looking to replace our laws with shariah laws. The president is one, oops Breivik didn't say that part

Unless conservative males and their admirers eliminate the above, the west is doomed

You won't find any of the above in anything I say. You do not have to look far to find it in rwnj blogs, newsletters, magazines, national platforms, campaign rhetoric, etc.

Look deeper. I agree that Breivik picked up on those themes. They're wrong, and dangerous. But those themes are all RW instances of an underlying, basic theme. That basic theme is itself quite wrong, and quite dangerous.

The theme I was getting at was the notion that

the traditional means of redress do not suffice; that the other side has nefarious powers. That the other side has the ability to permanently deceive the masses, so that one's own side, while right and in possession of evidence that would convince any fair minded observer, cannot prevail in a political forum. And yet, for the good of all that is good and right, one's own side must prevail.

No. That's wrong.

Consider AGW. On this point, we agree, I assume. We also agree that the Republicans are, for the most part, deceived. [Some are deceivers.] But does that mean that elections must be set aside, and matters settled by "other means"?

The power of the lie is constrained. It cannot endure. Truth, of its nature, endures. If forgotten, it can be rediscovered. If ignored, it haunts the back of the mind. If punished, it goes viral, spreading by way of joke and innuendo. If its adherents be murdered, they are deemed martyrs.

IF you are right about deficit spending, taxes, etc., then you will win, by and by, within political channels.

652 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:34:34am

Speaking of Laibach, one of their best covers ever:

653 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:34:59am

re: #651 lostlakehiker

Consider AGW. On this point, we agree, I assume. We also agree that the Republicans are, for the most part, deceived. [Some are deceivers.] But does that mean that elections must be set aside, and matters settled by "other means"?

Will they take responsibility for the disaster that will follow for not acting on AGW? Or will they weasel away from it and blame the dems?

Gee, we see them blaming the dems for the downgrade of our credit...
Wonder what they'll say on AGW.

654 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:41:54am

re: #649 Sergey Romanov

Leben
pam-pam pam pa-pam
Leben heisst Leben
pam-pam pam pa-pam

Heh. This one is like a scene from a musical based on Fjordman's worldview:

"Ein Fleisch, ein Blut,
ein wahrer Glaube.
Ein Ruf, ein Traum,
ein starker Wille
Gibt mir ein Leitbild."

655 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:44:22am
656 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:44:28am

re: #650 Varek Raith

Fox's Huckabee Responds To Credit Downgrade: "Ask Donald Trump To Be Treasury Secretary"
Oh geez.

Sure. We should also have Vin Diesel run our military and have Alex Trebeck run the Department of Education.

657 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:44:36am

re: #654 Jimmah

Somebody should totally CGI Fjordy's puffy face onto the singer.

658 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:45:06am

re: #656 BigPapa

Sure. We should also have Vin Diesel run our military and have Alex Trebeck run the Department of Education.

What is, Lol?

659 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:46:05am

Kewl.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

660 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:46:42am

re: #659 Jimmah

Kewl.

[Link: www.wired.com...]

Neil deGrasse Tyson is awesome.

661 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:47:04am

re: #654 Jimmah

Always loved 3:23.

662 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:50:57am

Later gators.
:)

663 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:52:19am

Anyone here good with photoshop? I was going to post some frog pics this morning but they all came out too grainy. Is there a way to fix that with photoshop?

664 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:55:16am

Mornin' everyone...we had an okay day fishing yesterday. I took my brothers, their sons and my dad - and a couple of my brother's friends and sons. There were 12 of us in our party..25 people on the boat. Of the 18 fish large enough to keep, we caught 13 of them. My youngest nephew, 9 (that's his age not his name), had the first fish (five minutes in), the biggest fish (a 28 pound white sea bass five minutes after his first salmon) and the most fish (4). My oldest brother caught a nice 4 foot thresher shark, and one of the other kids landed a 14 pound halibut...aside from that, we stuck to the rules and only caught salmon.

And I landed two in the last hour or so of fishing...so I got my money's worth out of the day.

665 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:55:47am

re: #655 Varek Raith

The website of the world's first-ever web server
20 years old.

Great...now we're all going to go look and it'll crash.

666 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:57:15am

re: #664 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...we had an okay day fishing yesterday. I took my brothers, their sons and my dad - and a couple of my brother's friends and sons. There were 12 of us in our party..25 people on the boat. Of the 18 fish large enough to keep, we caught 13 of them. My youngest nephew, 9 (that's his age not his name), had the first fish (five minutes in), the biggest fish (a 28 pound white sea bass five minutes after his first salmon) and the most fish (4). My oldest brother caught a nice 4 foot thresher shark, and one of the other kids landed a 14 pound halibut...aside from that, we stuck to the rules and only caught salmon.

And I landed two in the last hour or so of fishing...so I got my money's worth out of the day.

Nice! I've taken a few charters before. They are worth the money.

667 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 8:59:25am

re: #663 Killgore Trout

There are probably better ways, but I would do a blur or unsharp mask on the picture (at full size) using a very small value and repeat until you get rid of as much of the graininess as you can without making the whole thing look too soft.

668 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:00:10am

re: #663 Killgore Trout

Upload 1...

669 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:01:48am

re: #667 Jimmah

There are probably better ways, but I would do a blur or unsharp mask on the picture (at full size) using a very small value and repeat until you get rid of as much of the graininess as you can without making the whole thing look too soft.

Yeah, that seems to be the best way. I'll try it a couple time and see what happens.

670 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:04:50am

re: #668 Sergey Romanov

Upload 1...

It might not be worth the effort. Shitty camera just doesn't take very good pics. I'll get a real camera someday.

671 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:05:05am

re: #666 Killgore Trout

Nice! I've taken a few charters before. They are worth the money.

My brother's buddy, who was on the boat with us, was complaining about paying for fishing (he came because it was my brother's b-day present) because he has his own boat in the harbor...so I also scored future fishing on a 28 foot Boston Whaler that's there year round...it's good to make new friends.

This was a larger boat though, and the crew of two was very nice about untangling lines (we had some noobs) on the boat who didn't follow instructions, didn't check their rig regularly and lost interest in fishing after a few hours. The captain, because we were landing everything we hooked, kept us out for another hour as he was shooting for 20 fish landed so he'd have bragging rights amongst the other party boats. We still had the most fish of any boat on the water though, by all radio calls.

672 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:06:22am

re: #660 Varek Raith

Neil deGrasse Tyson is awesome.

I think he's boss of the New York Planetarium at the NHM as well? Went there last summer - the show was mind-blowing. I was convinced that the whole room was spinning. At other times it felt lke we were shootng upwards into deep space. The illusion of movement and scale was way beyond anything I was expecting.

673 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:09:35am

re: #666 Killgore Trout

Nice! I've taken a few charters before. They are worth the money.

The beast! /

674 Aye Pod  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:28:11am

Dinner time! Later :)

675 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:32:23am
When Fjordman woke up that morning to discover that he was not only being associated with the killer, but had been identified as the killer, he was devastated. That’s when his nightmare began, and it hasn’t ended yet. To be initially identified as a mass murderer, and then later on as the inspiration for that murderer — how much greater suffering and injustice could a man endure?

New GoV.

676 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:33:10am

Tyson is a very good communicator, can't think of a better choice. Looking forward to a new Cosmos.

677 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:44:17am

BTW, I found a tip for those who can't edit their pages after they've been posted. For me the "save changes" button is hidden off screen and no amount of resizing windows allows access. If you hold down the Ctrl key and scroll out with your mouse wheel you can zoom out enough to get access to the save changes button. Very handy tip.

678 blueraven  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:44:53am

re: #675 Sergey Romanov

When Fjordman woke up that morning to discover that he was not only being associated with the killer, but had been identified as the killer, he was devastated. That’s when his nightmare began, and it hasn’t ended yet. To be initially identified as a mass murderer, and then later on as the inspiration for that murderer — how much greater suffering and injustice could a man endure?

How about the parents of the murdered victims? I think the suffering they must endure is much greater.

Fjordman, you are a whiney wuss. Own it you bastard.

679 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:44:56am

re: #675 Sergey Romanov

New GoV.

[Link: www.cs.utsa.edu...]

680 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:45:12am

Sunday Frogtography
A bit grainy but not much can be done about it I suppose.

681 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:46:11am

re: #679 000G

[Link: www.cs.utsa.edu...]

I got my Kafka confused.

"Somebody must have made a false accusation against Josef K., for he was arrested one morning without having done anything wrong."

682 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:48:21am

Pam and Spencer both posted a "Funny" video about how they're not responsible to the Norway killing. So tasteless I can't bring myself to watch it.

683 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:50:06am

Hey, wasn't Rick Perry's "Jesus Norris, Texas Savior" fest yesterday? Anyone know if it was a success?

684 Digital Display  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:53:17am

re: #683 darthstar

Hey, wasn't Rick Perry's "Jesus Norris, Texas Savior" fest yesterday? Anyone know if it was a success?

No rain yet

685 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:54:10am

re: #683 darthstar

Hey, wasn't Rick Perry's "Jesus Norris, Texas Savior" fest yesterday? Anyone know if it was a success?

Okay...just saw Charles posted a video yesterday...funny shit. I especially like the preacher reading his screed from an iPad and having to scroll every few words ... 21st century salvation - there's an app for that.

686 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 9:55:16am

re: #678 blueraven

How about the parents of the murdered victims? I think the suffering they must endure is much greater.

Fjordman, you are a whiney wuss. Own it you bastard.

I mean, they didn't even waterboard him. Aren't they all for torture?

687 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:02:13am

Buchanan never fails to exhibit his bigotry...after calling President Obama "BO-oy" and getting called on it by Al Sharpton (Buchanan tries to deflect saying he was using boxing terminology), Sharpton shows him the proper use of a boxing metaphor...and Buchanan, not wanting to hide his racism too much, also emphasizes saying the President was "whipped" by the Republicans.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

688 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:04:46am

re: #687 darthstar

Buchanan never fails to exhibit his bigotry...after calling President Obama "BO-oy" and getting called on it by Al Sharpton (Buchanan tries to deflect saying he was using boxing terminology), Sharpton shows him the proper use of a boxing metaphor...and Buchanan, not wanting to hide his racism too much, also emphasizes saying the President was "whipped" by the Republicans.

[Link: www.salon.com...]

This boy, he is just a slave to the Democrat establishment, so Republicans will just whip him and that will be that, but he can't go away from the Democrat plantation. Why u lookin at me.

689 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:06:56am

re: #684 HoosierHoops

No rain yet

Yes, but god's sending them rolling black-outs in an attempt to communicate the message, "UR DOIN IT WRONG!" Unfortunately, they're too busy shrieking at him to listen.

690 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:07:21am

Saw another dead cat on the road. That makes 4 I've seen this Summer. Barely remember seeing this many after 20 years in Denver. Do people brake for animals anymore or is this a local thing here in Santa Clara County, CA? Heck, I even braked for a squirrel coming back from the store just now.

691 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:08:25am

re: #690 Gus 802

Saw another dead cat on the road. That makes 4 I've seen this Summer. Barely remember seeing this many after 20 years in Denver. Do people brake for animals anymore or is this a local thing here in Santa Clara County, CA? Heck, I even braked for a squirrel coming back from the store just now.


Do you break for lawyers? Srs question. ///

692 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:09:27am

re: #505 000G

Hm. Don't know what to make of that.

Thing is, Finnish writing system has been invented comparitively late, in the 16th century. It's therefore highly consistent with spoken Finnish and avoids a lot of inconsistencies between sound and letters that exist in languages that developed their writing systems much earlier and then over history developed deviations.

Late adapters know what they're doing.

693 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:10:19am

Great the spinning wheel of AT&T again.

694 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:10:36am

re: #691 Sergey Romanov

Do you break for lawyers? Srs question. ///

Only when I'm driving underwater.

//

695 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:13:32am

re: #156 SanFranciscoZionist

We have twenty-six letters and no accent marks at all! We force the Latin alphabet to do crap it never thought was possible! We use the same bizarre combinations of letters to spell four or five different sounds!


Though if you think it through you'll see there are enough exceptions that it's not all that difficult...cough.

696 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:14:24am

re: #695 darthstar

Though if you think it through you'll see there are enough exceptions that it's not all that difficult...cough.

I ought to have thought of better example.

697 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:16:54am

Protests in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem about housing and food prices. Protests in Chile. Protests in Spain... Meanwhile back in United State of Apathy? Nothing as usual. Tel Aviv's numbered close to 250,000 according to the BBC News.

698 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:17:28am

re: #533 000G

So this "war" is now happening because of this allowing of muslim immigration, and I guess it can only be stopped by disallowing it, and the level of its future bloodiness can only be affected by a directly proportional number of deportations of muslims already living here. Where to? Fjordman won't say; his half-baked genocidal fantasies kinda remind me of Helen Thomas, though.

Same principal, roughly. The land belongs to some racial or ethnic group in perpetuity, and other people living there makes war perfectly logical and understandable, and there can be no end to it until they move their asses.

The Israeli/Palestinian situation is somewhat different in the sense that the Israelis have actually established a state, which Muslim immigrants to Europe have not, and don't seem to have any notion of doing, and also that the Israelis and Palestinians have a debate going on about who is actually indigenous to the region, but the core idea that there is some deep and primary tribal ownership of the land is essentially the same.

Of course, my opposite numbers would claim that Zionism enshrines the same belief, to which I would point out the presence of a substantial Arab minority with full civil rights who ain't going nowhere, to which they would point out Avigdor Lieberman, to which I would say that Avigdor Lieberman and Helen Thomas fully deserve one another, and should probably collaborate on a book.

699 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:17:57am

re: #695 darthstar

Though if you think it through you'll see there are enough exceptions that it's not all that difficult...cough.

Use Shavian already! *grumble grumble*

///

700 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:20:01am

re: #535 000G

A holocaust denier. Lovely. /

Not so much a denier, as someone who resents what he perceives as the limitations placed on Europeans by the Shoah. Now, if you talk like a Nazi, people will say, 'remember where that got us last time'?

In Fjordman's view, the Holocaust happened, but people should shut up about it and stop making people feel guilty when they try to create another one.

Different from denial. Despicable, but different.

Worse, maybe, since at least denial indicates that they'd feel bad about it if they admitted it happened.

701 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:20:02am

"Syrian tanks attack eastern city." Civilians are being slaughtered in Syria. Where's NATO? Where's the "Superman" military response from the West?

702 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:20:25am

re: #698 SanFranciscoZionist

Avigdor Lieberman and Helen Thomas fully deserve one another, and should probably collaborate on a book.

Meh, it's almost 2012, so they may as well cause that mega-black-hole already.

703 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:21:06am

re: #537 engineer dog

in 1990. A man called Mohamed Rasul wrote a book called: "De ondergang van Nederlands - Het land van de naiëve dwazen" or "The coming downfall of the Netherlands - The nation of gullible fools". The author, a Pakistani called Mohammed Rasoel or Mohamed Rasul wrote a short book on the threat of Islam

coincidentally

The bandits' chieftain was flamboyant, black-bearded Mulai Ahmed er Raisuli, and he wanted to extort a heavy ransom from the Sultan of Morocco -- not to mention embarrass the sovereign by showing his powerlessness to protect foreign citizens.

This was more than a simple kidnapping in a distant land. For President Theodore Roosevelt, it was an opportunity to start waving his "big stick," sending battleships steaming toward the African coast to ensure Perdicaris' safe release.

It also gave Roosevelt the chance to issue one of his most blood-curdling proclamations, a statement that helped ensure his re-election while sending Americans wild with joy:

"Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!"

I actually used to teach a kid named Mohammed Rasul. Must be a common name. (He didn't write books, or have a big beard, but then, he was eleven.)

704 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:24:33am

re: #610 Cannadian Club Akbar

The next terror target.
[Link: www.americanbanjomuseum.com...]

Oh, clear it out, and let them blow it up. What harm could it do?

//

705 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:25:04am

re: #701 Gus 802

"Syrian tanks attack eastern city." Civilians are being slaughtered in Syria. Where's NATO? Where's the "Superman" military response from the West?

Maybe I'm a little pessimistic after the credit downgrade but maybe our days as a superpower are nearing the end. Our banks crashed the global economy and Republicans are hell bent on making things worse. We are lucky enough to be involved in taking out Q'Daffy but I don't see us expanding our military interventions anytime soon.

706 darthstar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:25:17am

Okay...in the last twenty minutes we've had mention of bigots Pat Buchanan (my doing, sorry), Helen Thomas, Avigor Lieberman, Fjordman, and senseless killing in Syria...that's just too much happy talk for me in one morning. I'm off to take an internet break.

Play nice, everyone.

707 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:26:10am

re: #706 darthstar

Okay...in the last twenty minutes we've had mention of bigots Pat Buchanan (my doing, sorry), Helen Thomas, Avigor Lieberman, Fjordman, and senseless killing in Syria...that's just too much happy talk for me in one morning. I'm off to take an internet break.

Play nice, everyone.

When you return, we'll be talking about Teletubbies, to sadden it down a little.

708 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:29:25am

re: #706 darthstar

I'm going to big up a better topic:

For Computer Wonks-I'm thinking about building a computer after Graduation.

What do GIS programs need. Are they low maintanence, more like CAD, or like a video oriented computer, or will gaming comps do okay?

709 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:29:45am

re: #705 Killgore Trout

Maybe I'm a little pessimistic after the credit downgrade but maybe our days as a superpower are nearing the end. Our banks crashed the global economy and Republicans are hell bent on making things worse. We are lucky enough to be involved in taking out Q'Daffy but I don't see us expanding our military interventions anytime soon.

Yep. And you know how reluctant to support that lately. I still however see a need for it from time to time despite my recent and somewhat frequent complaining. However, it's not about me. The irony of this is while the right wing is practically cheering this downgrade they're forgetting that it will have a negative impact on defense spending and thus limiting our ability for engaging in foreign excursions.

Tomorrow's the big day. Is this the eve of Black Monday? Any word from the Asian markets yet?

710 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:29:49am

re: #707 Sergey Romanov

When you return, we'll be talking about Teletubbies, to sadden it down a little.

Teletubbies are gay and will burn in hell.
Next!
/

711 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:30:28am

re: #701 Gus 802

"Syrian tanks attack eastern city." Civilians are being slaughtered in Syria. Where's NATO? Where's the "Superman" military response from the West?

No oil = Who cares.
Sad, no?

712 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:30:39am

I'm really getting pissed at food establishments moving towards these floppy plastic utensils that CAN'T CUT SHIT! Really, how much are you saving, Mr. Diner-man?!?

713 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:30:43am

re: #710 Varek Raith

Teletubbies are gay and will burn in hell.
Next!
/

Only Tinky is gay, the rest are furries.

714 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:33:14am

re: #711 Varek Raith

No oil = Who cares.
Sad, no?

Yes. That's about the size of it. Syria only produces about 400,000 BBL per day. They have to import their oil. Yeah, people will say it's not about oil but it doesn't have to be oil either. It could be any other natural resource. The bottom line is this -- or at least the message we seem to be getting -- "there is no economic justification for intervening in Syria." The same happens over and over again in African nations. When people say "never again" they repeat it over and over with places like Syria, Darfur, etc.

715 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:33:48am

Antimatter belt around Earth discovered by Pamela craft

The find, described in Astrophysical Journal Letters, confirms theoretical work that predicted the Earth's magnetic field could trap antimatter.

The team says a small number of antiprotons lie between the Van Allen belts of trapped "normal" matter.

The researchers say there may be enough to implement a scheme using antimatter to fuel future spacecraft.

The antiprotons were spotted by the Pamela satellite (an acronym for Payload for Antimatter Matter Exploration and Light-nuclei Astrophysics) - launched in 2006 to study the nature of high-energy particles from the Sun and from beyond our Solar System - so-called cosmic rays.

716 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:35:20am

re: #712 JasonA

I'm really getting pissed at food establishments moving towards these floppy plastic utensils that CAN'T CUT SHIT! Really, how much are you saving, Mr. Diner-man?!?

Real men eat with their hands and a large Bowie knife.

//

717 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:36:11am

re: #716 Gus 802

Real men eat with their hands and a large Bowie knife.

//

Maybe he ordered pudding.
///

718 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:37:02am

re: #717 Cannadian Club Akbar

Maybe he ordered pudding.
///

Maybe he can get the Bowie knife with foldable spoon.

//

719 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:37:12am

re: #700 SanFranciscoZionist

Not so much a denier, as someone who resents what he perceives as the limitations placed on Europeans by the Shoah. Now, if you talk like a Nazi, people will say, 'remember where that got us last time'?

In Fjordman's view, the Holocaust happened, but people should shut up about it and stop making people feel guilty when they try to create another one.

Different from denial. Despicable, but different.

Worse, maybe, since at least denial indicates that they'd feel bad about it if they admitted it happened.

I don't know. If you write stuff like "the mysteries of the cult of Anne Frank", you are putting facts of history on the same level as religious myths, which does not have to be counted as outright denial, neccessarily, it could just be that you have a very special and lofty grip of reality. But then that goes for most deniers.

Remember, denial is not just about denying the totality of the event, but also poking holes into it, denying bits and pieces, making it relative and/or equal to a lot of other things that aren't as bad, etc.

But yeah, the moral paradoxon of genocide denial obviously consists of the denier knowing that genocide is genereally considered bad (and will, at least for the sake of the argument, affirm that position).

Really don't want to get into what this means for ethical theories like moral realism, though.

720 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:37:17am

re: #716 Gus 802

Real men eat with their hands and a large Bowie knife.

//

721 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:38:00am

re: #718 Gus 802

Maybe he can get the Bowie knife with foldable spoon.

//

Swiss Army Bowie Knoon?

722 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:38:27am

re: #718 Gus 802

Maybe he can get the Bowie knife with foldable spoon.

//

I think Bowie knifes should have bottle openers and nail files, and maybe a cheese knife blade. Call it le' Bowie de Swiss.

723 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:38:55am

re: #721 Cannadian Club Akbar

Swiss Army Bowie Knoon?

The Bowie Spork™

724 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:39:18am

oh hahaha

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

725 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:39:55am

Spork.
The final frontier.
These are the voyages of the star ship Dining Utensils...

//

726 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:41:31am

re: #724 Sergey Romanov

oh hahaha

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Oh brother. I won't even watch the video. Who is she comparing us to?

727 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:42:37am

re: #726 Gus 802

Oh brother. I won't even watch the video. Who is she comparing us to?

I am so not wasting 7 minutes of my life on that.

728 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:42:45am

re: #726 Gus 802

Oh brother. I won't even watch the video. Who is she comparing us to?

The unruly pro-Palestinian hate-mob, of course. Because it was all about I-P and not about trash in her recommended sites list.

729 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:42:46am

re: #709 Gus 802

Tomorrow's the big day. Is this the eve of Black Monday? Any word from the Asian markets yet?

I think everybody's expecting a drop in the global markets for Monday but most people seem to be saying it's not going to be huge.

730 blueraven  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:42:48am

re: #709 Gus 802

Yep. And you know how reluctant to support that lately. I still however see a need for it from time to time despite my recent and somewhat frequent complaining. However, it's not about me. The irony of this is while the right wing is practically cheering this downgrade they're forgetting that it will have a negative impact on defense spending and thus limiting our ability for engaging in foreign excursions.

Tomorrow's the big day. Is this the eve of Black Monday? Any word from the Asian markets yet?

Not the Asian markets but...

US credit drop rattles Tel Aviv Stock Exchange


Trading in the TASE was stopped during the morning due to the instability in indices.

"When the trading gets high or low we use what we call an ' English Opening,'" TASE spokeswoman Idit Yaaron told Xinhua, "and this happens if the trading gets higher or lower than 2.5 percent, the trading stops for two or three minutes and it's checked again. If the trading is still higher or lower than 2.5, then it stops again."

If, after this measure, trading goes up or down by five percent, Yaaron said, "the TASE stops the trading for 45 minutes for the investors to sit down and check their orders for errors," and consider further action.

The "last time we had an English Opening was 2008, when the Lehman Brothers collapsed," Yaaron said.

731 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:44:57am

re: #730 blueraven

Not the Asian markets but...

US credit drop rattles Tel Aviv Stock Exchange

Hm. Maybe this is the time to buy GOLD!

732 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:45:00am

re: #724 Sergey Romanov

oh hahaha

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

I don't get it. Why post a 2 year old video. I'm missing the point.

733 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:45:26am

re: #728 Sergey Romanov

The unruly pro-Palestinian hate-mob, of course. Because it was all about I-P and not about trash in her recommended sites list.

I know. I read most of it this morning. It wasn't about Israel or Palestine it was about here stupid linking to Jihadwatch and a couple of others. Of course she now tries to paint it like she was "attacked" because of the Israel/Palestine issue. Charles should probably delete that page of hers.

734 Mocking Jay  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:45:59am

Okay, Sullivan's feeling really religious today. Creeping me out a little...

735 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:46:51am

re: #732 Killgore Trout

I don't get it. Why post a 2 year old video. I'm missing the point.

Here - [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] - #278ff.

736 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:47:23am

We're a haters' den because we object to things like Image: bni_3.png

737 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:48:11am

re: #730 blueraven

Not the Asian markets but...

US credit drop rattles Tel Aviv Stock Exchange

Let's throw some gasoline on that fire...

S&P warns of a second downgrade

One day after lowering the nation’s platinum triple-A credit rating, Standard & Poor’s analysts warned Saturday that the U.S. government could face a second downgrade if the economy continues to struggle and the government fails to make the cuts outlined in the debt ceiling agreement.

Ughhh

738 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:50:53am

re: #735 Sergey Romanov

Here - [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] - #278ff.

Ah, ok

739 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:51:22am

re: #732 Killgore Trout

I don't get it. Why post a 2 year old video. I'm missing the point.

I think the poster sees themselves a defiant David (single dissenting voice, like the lone high school kid with the Isreali flag) against the Goliath (mob of unruly Palestinian symp protestors).

If/true=Face.Palm.

740 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:53:31am

re: #737 NJDhockeyfan

Let's throw some gasoline on that fire...

S&P warns of a second downgrade

Ughhh

Well, I think it's pretty clear that if Republicans hold the House after the next election we're pretty much fucked. I can understand the general finder pointing but they show no sign of correctly interpreting the consequences of their actions. They need to go, no two ways about it. I'm really furious about this.

741 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:54:11am

re: #732 Killgore Trout

I don't get it. Why post a 2 year old video. I'm missing the point.

The point is, she's a big supporter of Israel, and we're the screaming pro-Palestinian mob. Also, the point is, she doesn't care about bad links on her blog, she's above worrying about racism and bigotry and whatever, she just cares about Israel and her other laundry list of things she cares about soooooo much that she can't be bothered to worry about what blogs she links to might be saying.

Not an uncommon attitude in this area--both sides of the argument.

"Er, you do realize that the head of this lovely charity collecting shoes for poor Palestinian children to wear to school is on record as saying that all Israelis should be shot on sight?"

"STOP CHANGING THE SUBJECT!!! MONSTER!!!"

742 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:54:18am

re: #740 Killgore Trout

finder pointing = Finger pointing.

743 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:54:35am

Heh, she changed "Recommended sites" to "Links". Both JW and BNI still there.

744 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:54:58am

re: #739 BigPapa

I think the poster sees themselves a defiant David (single dissenting voice, like the lone high school kid with the Isreali flag) against the Goliath (mob of unruly Palestinian symp protestors).

If/true=Face.Palm.

Internet logic. "If people hate her linking to Jihadwatch they obviously support Hama, Hezbollah, and hate Israel."

745 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:55:46am

re: #724 Sergey Romanov

oh hahaha

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Image: 122waaambulance.jpg

746 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:56:31am

re: #740 Killgore Trout

Well, I think it's pretty clear that if Republicans hold the House after the next election we're pretty much fucked. I can understand the general finder pointing but they show no sign of correctly interpreting the consequences of their actions. They need to go, no two ways about it. I'm really furious about this.

I'm not going to blame just one party for this disaster. They all are responsible for it. I say vote them all out and start off fresh, Washington DC sucks.

747 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 10:57:18am

re: #746 NJDhockeyfan

I'm not going to blame just one party for this disaster. They all are responsible for it. I say vote them all out and start off fresh, Washington DC sucks.

This is entirely the fault of the TPGOP.
Sorry man, thems the breaks.

748 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:01:07am

re: #737 NJDhockeyfan

Let's throw some gasoline on that fire...

S&P warns of a second downgrade

One day after lowering the nation’s platinum triple-A credit rating, Standard & Poor’s analysts warned Saturday that the U.S. government could face a second downgrade if the economy continues to struggle and the government fails to make the cuts outlined in the debt ceiling agreement.

Ughhh

The S&P report specifically mentions the Republican refusal to raise revenues as a key reason for the reformulation of their model of future deficits. S&P now assumes in their numbers that the Bush tax cuts that are set to expire won't be allowed to, that the Republicans will find something else to hold hostage to ransom their continuation into the foreseeable future. Yet conservative publications seem to be deliberately avoiding any mention of this, all they ever mention are the necessity of cuts.

749 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:03:30am

re: #746 NJDhockeyfan

I'm not going to blame just one party for this disaster. They all are responsible for it. I say vote them all out and start off fresh, Washington DC sucks.

Tea Party's populist shortsighted rage takes point on this, although a pragmatic look could spread the blame around.

However, we voted for them in the first place. Voting out every member of the House is equalizing the blame between them all, and we have to deal with a new batch of rookies.

Which ironically is how we ended up with Tea Party infested freshmen in the first place. So I don't attest to the 'throw all the bums out' mindset, that's what got us into this mess and the new set of bums could potentially be worse.

750 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:05:55am

re: #746 NJDhockeyfan

I'm not going to blame just one party for this disaster. They all are responsible for it. I say vote them all out and start off fresh, Washington DC sucks.

Sorry but that's not true. The Republicans own this pure and simple. They are so dysfunctional they are damaging the country. They have no place in government. The Republicans cause the debt downgrade. S&P warned that they'd downgrade unless there was a 4 trillion dollar deal, which was Obama's grand comprimise. They knew this was going to happen and refused to do anything about it. They did this intentionally. That's a fact.

751 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:06:46am

re: #748 goddamnedfrank

The S&P report specifically mentions the Republican refusal to raise revenues as a key reason for the reformulation of their model of future deficits. S&P now assumes in their numbers that the Bush tax cuts that are set to expire won't be allowed to, that the Republicans will find something else to hold hostage to ransom their continuation into the foreseeable future. Yet conservative publications seem to be deliberately avoiding any mention of this, all they ever mention are the necessity of cuts.

Conservative memes are the the downgrade happened because the debt ceiling was raised and more debt has been taken on. That's the depth of their construct.

The reality is the SP report was an indictment of the Tea Party and to a lesser degree government policymakers as a whole.

752 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:09:49am

Every single fucking country with AAA credit rating has universal healthcare. Today's Republicans are working on destroying Medicare and Social Security. Fuck them.

753 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:11:37am

The Republican Party continues to exceed my worst prediction about how stupid and reckless they've become.

754 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:12:13am

Hangar queen.

@latimes Los Angeles Times
Malfunctions plague the U.S.' expensive fleet of F-22 Raptor fighter jets [Link: lat.ms...]

755 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:13:25am

I have no left doubt that they would have caused a default to protect tax breaks for millionaires. For a while I thought they'd back down, but not any longer. They would have destroyed the country over it for sure.

756 jaunte  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:13:40am

re: #752 Killgore Trout

Next up, the interstate highway system.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

757 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:13:56am

Ok, I'm ranting. Time to go fix breakfast.

758 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:14:21am

Conservatives, their memes are predictable
not very complex but shallow and believable
ignorance is faith, virtue redeemable

759 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:24:01am

re: #754 Gus 802

I saw this coming.

Just freaking retrofit the F-15. It can be made suitable.

760 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:24:05am

re: #758 BigPapa

Conservatives, their memes are predictable
not very complex but shallow and believable
ignorance is faith, virtue redeemable

Your post lacks punctuated equilibrium.

761 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:25:30am

re: #754 Gus 802

Hangar queen.

@latimes Los Angeles Times
Malfunctions plague the U.S.' expensive fleet of F-22 Raptor fighter jets [Link: lat.ms...]

Lets spend more money on equipment to expensive to risk in combat.

762 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:26:16am

re: #761 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lets spend more money on equipment to expensive to risk in combat.

Buy Chinese.

763 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:29:14am

re: #762 b_sharp

Get a defective version of what we have had for a while.

How about no?

764 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:29:33am

re: #761 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Lets spend more money on equipment to expensive to risk in combat.

Pathetic. I didn't want to believe it at first. But we wound up building a watch instead of a fighter jet. It's a great showcase fighter but it's doesn't cut the muster in the field. It's an overpriced hangar queen. The damn thing is like a watch.

765 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:32:00am

re: #764 Gus 802

Pathetic. I didn't want to believe it at first. But we wound up building a watch instead of a fighter jet. It's a great showcase fighter but it's doesn't cut the muster in the field. It's an overpriced hangar queen. The damn thing is like a watch.

F-22 $412 million per fighter
F-18E $55 million per fighter

766 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:32:58am

re: #764 Gus 802

Pathetic. I didn't want to believe it at first. But we wound up building a watch instead of a fighter jet. It's a great showcase fighter but it's doesn't cut the muster in the field. It's an overpriced hangar queen. The damn thing is like a watch.

Other countries will build Gen 5 fighter/bombers without the inherent problems of the F-22, and the US will be forced to re-think their Gen 5 or buy foreign.

767 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:34:39am

re: #763 ProLifeLiberal

Get a defective version of what we have had for a while.

How about no?

Do you believe the Chinese are incapable of producing quality?

768 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:34:45am

re: #765 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

F-22 $412 million per fighter
F-18E $55 million per fighter

Basically 7.5 to 1. So now imagine facing off 10 F-22s again 75 F-18Es. The latter would win. It's better go with lower tech and larger numbers. It's also cheaper in the long run due to lower maintenance costs.

769 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:35:19am

re: #764 Gus 802

Pathetic. I didn't want to believe it at first. But we wound up building a watch instead of a fighter jet. It's a great showcase fighter but it's doesn't cut the muster in the field. It's an overpriced hangar queen. The damn thing is like a watch.

Over-engineering at its finest.

770 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:36:16am

re: #769 Varek Raith

Over-engineering at its finest.

Think Tiger tank during WWII. Great tank. Always broken down.

771 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:37:12am

BBL

772 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:37:15am

re: #770 Gus 802

Think Tiger tank during WWII. Great tank. Always broken down.

Zumwalt. Awesome ship. Way too feature heavy and expensive.

773 Varek Raith  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:38:11am

re: #772 Varek Raith

Zumwalt. Awesome ship. Way too feature heavy and expensive.

3.3 billon dollars.
For a destroyer.
Shit, you're nearly one third of the way to building a new carrier.

774 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:40:26am

re: #772 Varek Raith

Zumwalt. Awesome ship. Way too feature heavy and expensive.

That is why the Navy is only buying 3. Also F-22 is cancelled with a small buy. F-35 continues to ratchet up in price by the minute. Helicopters continue to be a bargain (I am not at all biased).
//

775 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:42:58am

re: #774 rwdflynavy

That is why the Navy is only buying 3. Also F-22 is cancelled with a small buy. F-35 continues to ratchet up in price by the minute. Helicopters continue to be a bargain (I am not at all biased).
//

I got to work some with the folks working the DDG-1000 program. I started calling it the USS Spinal Tap. Every system on there is "It goes to 11, it's one more". 6 inch gun vs 5 inch, SQQ-90 vs. SQQ-89 etc...

776 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:44:07am

re: #775 rwdflynavy

I got to work some with the folks working the DDG-1000 program. I started calling it the USS Spinal Tap. Every system on there is "It goes to 11, it's one more". 6 inch gun vs 5 inch, SQQ-90 vs. SQQ-89 etc...

PRC-E8 vs PRC-E7
/

777 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:44:54am

re: #773 Varek Raith

3.3 billon dollars.
For a destroyer.
Shit, you're nearly one third of the way to building a new carrier.

you can build a very nice small third world country for that

778 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:45:51am

re: #777 engineer dog

you can build a very nice small third world country for that

The dirty little secret is that Olympia Snowe is forcing the Navy to buy the 3. What a waste of money. Being built in Maine...

779 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:45:54am

re: #774 rwdflynavy

That is why the Navy is only buying 3. Also F-22 is cancelled with a small buy. F-35 continues to ratchet up in price by the minute. Helicopters continue to be a bargain (I am not at all biased).
//

F-35 is another service headache in the making and it's not even in service yet. The V/STOL version is another watch. They should have stuck with an advanced Harrier. Plus, we lost most of the F-35 buyers by now. I remember when the Eurofighter was supposed to be the next big thing in Europe. That ended up being far too expensive as well. The all in one concept of the F-35 will be what kills it. And as far as air superiority for the F-35 I have serious doubts. I'm wondering if they shouldn't have gone with Boeing. Lockheed has gone over budget over and over again throughout the years.

780 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:46:58am

re: #777 engineer dog

you can build a very nice small third world country for that

You'll be glad we have it when the next naval battle surfaces!

//

781 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:47:48am

They'll wind up using it to chase pirates in wooden skiffs off the coast of Somalia.

782 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:48:35am

re: #779 Gus 802

F-35 is another service headache in the making and it's not even in service yet. The V/STOL version is another watch. They should have stuck with an advanced Harrier. Plus, we lost most of the F-35 buyers by now. I remember when the Eurofighter was supposed to be the next big thing in Europe. That ended up being far too expensive as well. The all in one concept of the F-35 will be what kills it. And as far as air superiority for the F-35 I have serious doubts. I'm wondering if they shouldn't have gone with Boeing. Lockheed has gone over budget over and over again throughout the years.

The only reason it hasn't been killed yet(IMHO) is that too many allies are in the contract to buy the F-35.

783 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:50:17am

Is this real?
[Link: twitpic.com...]

784 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:50:45am

re: #782 rwdflynavy

The only reason it hasn't been killed yet(IMHO) is that too many allies are in the contract to buy the F-35.

Including "allies" in congress. From both sides of the aisle.

785 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:51:22am

re: #783 Killgore Trout

Is this real?
[Link: twitpic.com...]

Omg, do not look directly at that.

786 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:52:02am

I still remember all the fun we had when Ospreys were falling out of the sky on a weekly basis. Support Battalion got tasked with sending MPs and computer techs over to the Air Station to secure their equipment and computers so none of the local officers and staff could wipe the records before NCIS got to them. Good times.

787 jaunte  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:52:26am

re: #785 Killgore Trout

I thought Jerry Lewis had retired.

788 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:52:32am

re: #785 Killgore Trout

Omg, do not look directly at that.

THE ABYSS! IT STARES BACK!

789 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:53:54am

re: #788 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THE ABYSS! IT STARES BACK!

I think it's real. The other time mag covers on the sidebar are legit.

790 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:56:03am

re: #783 Killgore Trout

Is this real?
[Link: twitpic.com...]

OMFG! She's mastered Teh StareGaze!

791 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:56:33am

CrAzY pAm: Obama killed the Navy seal team.....
Questions the Media Won't Ask, But Americans Must

Back in May, Defense Secretary Gates said that releasing information about the OBL raid threatened the safety of Navy SEALs and their families, making them targets for terrorists.

Why did the Obama administration leak and name this Seal Team? Was it payback?

Who is taking revenge? The ISI? The Taliban claimed they downed the helicopter with rocket fire while it was taking part in a raid on a house where insurgents were gathered in the province of Wardak late Friday. Who tipped them off? And who supplied the Taliban with state of the art surface to air armaments?

These are the questions that must be asked and answered by the Obama administration.

792 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:57:01am

re: #790 BigPapa

OMFG! She's mastered Teh StareGaze!

/Garth/Turn it off Man!! It's sucking my will to live!!!/Garth/

793 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:57:31am

re: #790 BigPapa

OMFG! She's mastered Teh StareGaze!

They photoshopped out her real eyes

794 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:57:43am

re: #791 Killgore Trout

CrAzY pAm: Obama killed the Navy seal team...
Questions the Media Won't Ask, But Americans Must

Just when you think she has hit rock bottom...

795 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:58:04am

re: #791 Killgore Trout

CrAzY pAm: Obama killed the Navy seal team...
Questions the Media Won't Ask, But Americans Must

Right. Because the Taliban firing on a helicopter is a rare event. "Obviously they were tipped off." What an idiot.

796 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:59:51am

re: #794 rwdflynavy

Just when you think she has hit rock bottom...

She's also pushing that Breivik is a result of the media censoring the Counter-Jihad.

797 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:00:08pm

re: #791 Killgore Trout

CrAzY pAm: Obama killed the Navy seal team...
Questions the Media Won't Ask, But Americans Must

Pam is one fucked-up paranoid bitch.

798 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:00:50pm

re: #785 Killgore Trout

Omg, do not look directly at that.

Too late ... it swallowed my soul.

799 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:02:01pm

re: #795 Gus 802

Right. Because the Taliban firing on a helicopter is a rare event. "Obviously they were tipped off." What an idiot.

Hey man, she's just asking questions. Leave Pamz a-looone!

800 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:02:09pm

re: #752 Killgore Trout

Every single fucking country with AAA credit rating has universal healthcare. Today's Republicans are working on destroying Medicare and Social Security. Fuck them.

Medicare and Social Security will both self destruct if not reformed. Obama has granted that something must be done, and suggested raising the retirement age.

The numbers simply don't work, not with tax rates and benefits as they stand. Now, does it destroy SS to nudge up the retirement age again?
Incrementally, yes. But consider this: what if we left the early retirement age where it is, and nudged up the full-benefits age? Those working in physically demanding occupations could continue to retire at the earlier age. Their situation would remain unchanged. Those working desk jobs would have to soldier on a bit further to snag full benefits.

Does it destroy SS to raise SS taxes? Again, incrementally, yes. If SS is meant to serve social justice, a loose term but it has its uses, then raising taxes on today's young, who make less than their forerunners, so as to fund a more generous retirement for those who in general have already done better, is no way to achieve social justice.

One way or another, there are going to be changes in SS benefits. Downward. The young simply cannot come up with the kinds of taxes that would be needed to balance the SS books in the teeth of the baby boomer wave of retirement. Not and stick with the current projected benefits. It's not the GOP, but reality, that dictates this.

As to Medicare, the fee schedules for care providers are out of touch with reality. The services of good doctors and nurses cost more than Medicare pays. In effect, Medicare levies a tax on them. The same demographic retirement and aging wave that poses a challenge to social security benefits will hit Medicare.

Doctors and nurses, and all the other health care workers, will have to work more, for less money, as more of their patients become Medicare eligible. Is this sustainable?

Economics tells us that talent goes where the wages are. The quality of people we have now in the medical profession reflects the current balance of earnings and workload and talent required to do the job right. Push that balance, and it will budge.

The quality of care will suffer, even if the system doesn't openly and dramatically crash.

801 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:02:16pm

re: #791 Killgore Trout

CrAzY pAm: Obama killed the Navy seal team...
Questions the Media Won't Ask, But Americans Must

Guess who else?

802 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:03:06pm

Heh, I see wingnuts are running with Joel Hayward story. I didn't know Hayward converted to Islam.

It's true that he was a denier in youth, and later recanted his views. Whether recantation was sincere - only he knows, but it was quite detailed (IIRC he acknowledged which arguments he got wrong and why).

I know other cases of deniers seeing light (the most major of them is, of course, Jean-Claude Pressac, who became a crucial Auschwitz researcher after abandoning denial). Unless he preaches HD (which I don't think he does) he should be left alone on this issue. In any case the phrase "who claims Nazi gas chambers..." is a lie, since he no longer claims it.

803 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:03:20pm

re: #797 SanFranciscoZionist

Pam is one fucked-up paranoid bitch.

You're too kind. ;)

804 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:03:36pm

re: #797 SanFranciscoZionist

Pam is one fucked-up paranoid bitch.

Yes Pam, you're on to him. The President personally called a Taliban unit in the middle of Afghanistan and put a hit on the unit that killed Osama. You caught him.
/

805 Kronocide  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:03:52pm

re: #795 Gus 802

Right. Because the Taliban firing on a helicopter is a rare event. "Obviously they were tipped off." What an idiot.

Do you think they were tipped of by the FUCKING LOUD ASS HELICOPTERY SOUND COMING UP THE CANYON?

806 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:04:03pm

re: #801 000G

Guess who else?

[Video]

Heh, of course.

807 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:04:17pm

re: #800 lostlakehiker

The numbers simply don't work, not with tax rates and benefits as they stand.

Then raise taxes, remove the SS salary cap entirely, problem solved.

808 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:04:46pm

re: #802 Sergey Romanov

Here's Hayward's letter to Ken McVay:

[Link: www.nizkor.org...]

809 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:05:00pm

re: #805 BigPapa

Do you think they were tipped of by the FUCKING LOUD ASS HELICOPTERY SOUND COMING UP THE CANYON?

"Look! Look! An 'elicopter!!"

"No, no, Hezmet! That is not the right one! Hold your fire!!"

810 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:05:29pm

re: #651 lostlakehiker

We also agree that the Republicans are, for the most part, deceived. [Some are deceivers.] But does that mean that elections must be set aside, and matters settled by "other means"?

Where are you getting that?

I'm not talking about "the masses", whatever that is, I'm talking about a specific subset of American conservatives. The same subset, BTW, buys into the same baloney peddled to Breivik and articulated by GOTP politicians and public figures.

811 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:05:44pm

re: #804 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes Pam, you're on to him. The President personally called a Taliban unit in the middle of Afghanistan and put a hit on the unit that killed Osama. You caught him.
/

Pamela Geller 007

She's a GWOT sleuth!!11ty

//

812 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:07:38pm

Ever notice how these people who claim the Government is capable of murdering its own citizens and soldiers fail to get stuffed in a trunk and fall off the face of the Earth or die in a tragic accident under mysterious circumstances?

813 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:10:16pm

re: #698 SanFranciscoZionist

to which I would say that Avigdor Lieberman and Helen Thomas fully deserve one another, and should probably collaborate on a book.

The Thomases and Liebermans depend on each other for their very identity.

814 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:10:49pm

"NAVY SEAL TEAM 6 DEATHS WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!11TY IS OBAMA BEHIND IT? DID OBAMA TIP OFF THE TALIBAN AND SUPPLY THEM WITH ADVANCED SURFACE TO AIR ARMAMENTS!!11TY PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW!11TY" -- PAMELA GELLER

And people wonder why we think she's an idiot.

815 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:11:41pm

re: #812 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ever notice how these people who claim the Government is capable of murdering its own citizens and soldiers fail to get stuffed in a trunk and fall off the face of the Earth or die in a tragic accident under mysterious circumstances?

We can dream.

//

816 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:13:20pm

re: #804 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes Pam, you're on to him. The President personally called a Taliban unit in the middle of Afghanistan and put a hit on the unit that killed Osama. You caught him.
/

After putting flour in his hair.

817 Gus  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:14:52pm

re: #816 SanFranciscoZionist

After putting flour in his hair.

If you're going, to San Francisco...
Be sure to wear, some flowers flour in your hair...

These people are nuts. Nucking futz.

818 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:15:19pm

re: #816 SanFranciscoZionist

After putting flour in his hair.

Flour? I thought he was using the corpse dust of veterans he had killed.
/

819 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:16:30pm

re: #653 Varek Raith

Will they take responsibility for the disaster that will follow for not acting on AGW? Or will they weasel away from it and blame the dems?

Gee, we see them blaming the dems for the downgrade of our credit...
Wonder what they'll say on AGW.

It's not what they'll say. It's what the public will conclude.

This bitch of a summer has one upside: it's been instructive. Like I was saying, truth endures. A pissing contest of anecdotes about how it snowed in October here, or hit a record low there, is a losing game when there are so many more extremes being recorded at the hot end. And if anyone should object that slinging anecdotes is not a good way to add up the evidence, well, there's a tidal wave of scientific evidence they just let in the door.

Cracks are showing in the GOP line. Huntsman has distanced himself from the know-nothings on this point. Christie has declined to parrot them.

Of course there will be GOP coal-and-oil-industry shills and genuinely baffled science-challenged types who insist that it's not happening, or if it is, it has nothing to do with us. There might even be a Dem representative from W. Va. or what have you who chimes in. But the world will move on. U.S. public opinion will move on.

But AGW isn't really purely a domestic political issue. Alone, the U.S. cannot save the world from it. We must have at a minimum two out of three other players on board: India, China, Europe. None of these are willing to make big sacrifices unless we're on board too.

And then there's the technological side. If only we could improve the stats for wind or solar by another factor of two, maybe four, the political issue would be moot. Everybody would adopt the new technology because it just paid better.

820 RadicalModerate  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:16:34pm

I see we have a meltdown in progress on the pages:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

821 Kragar  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:19:41pm

re: #820 RadicalModerate

I see we have a meltdown in progress on the pages:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Whiny bitch is whiny.

822 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:22:36pm

re: #800 lostlakehiker

Medicare and Social Security will both self destruct if not reformed. Obama has granted that something must be done, and suggested raising the retirement age.

The numbers simply don't work, not with tax rates and benefits as they stand. Now, does it destroy SS to nudge up the retirement age again?
Incrementally, yes. But consider this: what if we left the early retirement age where it is, and nudged up the full-benefits age? Those working in physically demanding occupations could continue to retire at the earlier age. Their situation would remain unchanged. Those working desk jobs would have to soldier on a bit further to snag full benefits.

Does it destroy SS to raise SS taxes? Again, incrementally, yes. If SS is meant to serve social justice, a loose term but it has its uses, then raising taxes on today's young, who make less than their forerunners, so as to fund a more generous retirement for those who in general have already done better, is no way to achieve social justice.

One way or another, there are going to be changes in SS benefits. Downward. The young simply cannot come up with the kinds of taxes that would be needed to balance the SS books in the teeth of the baby boomer wave of retirement. Not and stick with the current projected benefits. It's not the GOP, but reality, that dictates this.

As to Medicare, the fee schedules for care providers are out of touch with reality. The services of good doctors and nurses cost more than Medicare pays. In effect, Medicare levies a tax on them. The same demographic retirement and aging wave that poses a challenge to social security benefits will hit Medicare.

Doctors and nurses, and all the other health care workers, will have to work more, for less money, as more of their patients become Medicare eligible. Is this sustainable?

Economics tells us that talent goes where the wages are. The quality of people we have now in the medical profession reflects the current balance of earnings and workload and talent required to do the job right. Push that balance, and it will budge.

The quality of care will suffer, even if the system doesn't openly and dramatically crash.

first of all, don't lump social security and medicare together. they are very different programs with very different problems

the social security trustees currently predict that soon the fund will start taking in less than it pays out on a continuing basis(it has always made a profit until the past two years), and the fund will not be able to pay full benefits by 2036 or so. at that time they estimate that if nothing has been done by then, they will only be able to pay out about 75% of benefits

the social security trustees are the board legally charged with the management of social security, so i tend to believe what they say a lot more than the many pundits and columnists who sound off on the subject with vague, alarming, inaccurate pronouncement

many people estimate that social securities problems could be solved by increasing the current cap on social security contributions from $106,500 to, say, $150,000. this would mean that people making over $106,500 per year, as well as their employers, would have to pay at most another three and a half grand per year into the fund. i would be among those people and i think i could manage it

as for medicare, i know much less about it and it seems to be a much more difficlt problem. i will only say that it is well known that we pay more for less excellent overall health care than many other nations whose medical systems would be considered 'socialized medicine" in the context of the united states

of course, all other nations have more socialist medical financing systems than the united states

all of them

823 blueraven  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:40:17pm

re: #800 lostlakehiker

...

Economics tells us that talent goes where the wages are. The quality of people we have now in the medical profession reflects the current balance of earnings and workload and talent required to do the job right. Push that balance, and it will budge.

Does this apply to teachers? If so why are we trying to reduce their wages and benefits? Why is this appropriate for one segment and not another?

824 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:42:50pm

re: #820 RadicalModerate

I see we have a meltdown in progress on the pages:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Ah, whatever.

825 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 12:45:56pm

re: #823 blueraven

...

Does this apply to teachers? If so why are we trying to reduce their wages and benefits? Why is this appropriate for one segment and not another?

Assume a can opener!

826 Kewalo  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:23:29pm

re: #800 lostlakehiker

I can't believe you were able to fit so much crap about SS in one post. I'm not addressing medicare but SS. SS turned 75 yrs old last year. For all of those years it has been run efficiently and never missed a payment. They have admin costs of about 1-2%, which means that .97 cents goes back to the taxpayers. There is not one agency or company or corporation that has a track record like that.

In 1983, because of the baby boomers Reagan convened a committee to make sure that SS would remain viable. The committee raised the dedicated tax (fica) and since 1983 SS has taken in more money then it gave out. There is still a surplus and the administrators have said the fund is viable until about 2037. But of course we shouldn't wait until the last minute. You say this...

One way or another, there are going to be changes in SS benefits. Downward. The young simply cannot come up with the kinds of taxes that would be needed to balance the SS books in the teeth of the baby boomer wave of retirement. Not and stick with the current projected benefits. It's not the GOP, but reality, that dictates this.

And I can't help but wonder where you got this remarkable bit of BS. I know many believe that people didn't live as long in the beginning as they do now. Another little bit of BS.

Life Expectancy for Social Security
http://www.ssa.gov/history/lifeexpect.html

There are plenty of people trying to scare you about SS. These are usually people that are itching to privatize the fund. And wouldn't that have been a disaster when the recession hit?

SS is not broke and not broken, and whoever is telling you that it is...is trying to fool you.

Here is what Krugman has had to say.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/opinion/16krugman.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/opinion/16krugman.html
And from Robert Reich
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/budget-baloney-why-social_b_824331.html
You would be much better off is you would actually do some research on SS rather then just parrot something you've read somewhere.

827 Kewalo  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 2:25:27pm

re: #807 goddamnedfrank

Exactly! I was so pissed after I read his post I forgot to point that out.

828 Chayma  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:02:38pm

Is Fjordman the same person as Baron Bodissey?

I read somewhere here, that he was, but at Gates of Vienna he says it's Fjordman (Pedar Jensen) is someone else.

829 jaunte  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:04:08pm

re: #828 Chayma

The proprietor of Gate of Vienna is Ned May (aka Baron Bodissey).

830 jaunte  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:04:32pm

Gates, that is.

831 Chayma  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:08:33pm

Jaunte,

Presumabely, that is why Fjordman's English was better than most Norwegians, because Gates was editing it for him?

What is Ned May's story then? He's based in the USA isn't he? Where is this Jensen character hiding? I don't believe Norway police are through with him, nor would they let him leave the country.

832 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:17:55pm

re: #822 engineer dog

first of all, don't lump social security and medicare together. they are very different programs with very different problems

the social security trustees currently predict that soon the fund will start taking in less than it pays out on a continuing basis(it has always made a profit until the past two years), and the fund will not be able to pay full benefits by 2036 or so. at that time they estimate that if nothing has been done by then, they will only be able to pay out about 75% of benefits

the social security trustees are the board legally charged with the management of social security, so i tend to believe what they say a lot more than the many pundits and columnists who sound off on the subject with vague, alarming, inaccurate pronouncement

many people estimate that social securities problems could be solved by increasing the current cap on social security contributions from $106,500 to, say, $150,000. this would mean that people making over $106,500 per year, as well as their employers, would have to pay at most another three and a half grand per year into the fund. i would be among those people and i think i could manage it

as for medicare, i know much less about it and it seems to be a much more difficlt problem. i will only say that it is well known that we pay more for less excellent overall health care than many other nations whose medical systems would be considered 'socialized medicine" in the context of the united states

of course, all other nations have more socialist medical financing systems than the united states

all of them

Are you sure? I hadn't heard of Japan doing that. As to social security, if you raise the limit on what's taxable, to stay with the current law, don't you have to raise those folks' benefits down the road? If so, actuarially, you haven't solved anything.

If you raise the taxes, but leave benefits fixed, then all you've done is levied a tax on your cohort to pay benefits to mine. I don't think I deserve it. In fact, I know I don't. I don't see why I should run a handy profit on my own contributions to social security, at your expense.

I think benefits should be trimmed for those who stand to receive upper tier payouts. Trimmed so that they get their contributions back, adjusted for inflation, and maybe a little more, but not handsomely more. Trimmed enough that the current social security tax take can cover the outlays.

833 Kewalo  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:40:29pm

re: #832 lostlakehiker

You don't think you deserve what? I had my first job in the 50's and since the 80's have paid into SS (with my employers) over 10% of my income. At the same time there has been a cap on fica and if you were earning income over $100,000 you paid less percentage then I did. AND if you lived on capital gains you paid even less. Why don't you explain to me why someone who could buy or sell me, actually pays a smaller percentage the I have. Tell me what has been fair about that?

I have a feeling that you think of SS as a retirement fund. But it isn't...it's insurance. So, if something goes wrong you (and I) will have money to fall back on. I can tell you are young but that is no excuse for not getting the facts. A few years ago when Bush was pushing for privatization I made a point to learn as much as I could about SS and I think you should do that also.

You don't get your money back when you buy insurance and why you think that you should get your money back from SS really baffles me.

Obviously you are a Randian so I don't know why I'm bothering to try and educate you. But there is life beyond money and selfishness. Try it, you actually might like it.

834 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 3:51:24pm

re: #831 Chayma

Jaunte,

Presumabely, that is why Fjordman's English was better than most Norwegians, because Gates was editing it for him?

What is Ned May's story then? He's based in the USA isn't he? Where is this Jensen character hiding? I don't believe Norway police are through with him, nor would they let him leave the country.

He's already been questioned by Norwegian authorities - search Google for the name Peder Jensen, there are many articles about it.

835 Chayma  Sun, Aug 7, 2011 11:26:42pm

Jaunte thanks.

Charles,
I have done, but i've not seen anything about his current whereabouts. In any case, your site is one of the best for information on these Islamophobes. It was your post on Fjordman that started the meltdown on the internet on Fjordman.

Well done. Talk about blog power:)


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