Poll: GOP Hurt by Debt Ceiling Debacle

It’s not difficult to see where the responsibility lies
Politics • Views: 38,252

A new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey on the debt ceiling debacle shows that Republican attempts to dodge responsibility are not working: Democrats helped by debt debate, Republicans hurt according to poll.

And the Tea Party’s favorable ratings have hit an all-time low, as people remember their leaders’ insanely nihilistic rhetoric (i.e. calling for the US to default on loans).

Just 33 percent of Americans approve of the Republican Party, while 59 percent disapprove in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday. That’s a net negative 10-percentage-point shift from less than a month ago, when 41 percent of those surveyed by CNN said they had a favorable view of the GOP while 55 percent had an unfavorable one.

At the same time, Democrats’ numbers have improved slightly, with approval and disapproval each at 47 percent. In July, 45 percent approved and 49 percent disapproved, an net 4-point positive change.

The tea party movement fares slightly worse than the GOP and has its most dismal ratings since CNN began asking about the movement in polls in January 2010. Thirty-one percent said they see it favorably while 51 percent see it unfavorably. In July, those numbers were 37 percent and 47 percent, respectively.

Of those surveyed, just 41 percent say they think the House member in their district should be reelected�— the lowest ever�— while 49 percent said the member does not deserve another term. A year ago, 52 percent supported reelection of their representatives while 42 percent opposed it.

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224 comments
1 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:36:10am

But will they still vote for Generic Republican over Obama in 2012?

2 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:39:51am

re: #1 laZardo

But will they still vote for Generic Republican over Obama in 2012?

Generic is better than Evangelical.

3 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:41:29am

My guess is people saw the Democrats as being the rational ones in the debate and the Republicans as being irrational. Not surprised the TP has taken a dip in this. They came across as whiny babies in teh whole dbeate.

4 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:42:02am

Of course this was easily predictable and won't slow the Republicans down at all. They're going to ride this nonsense to the bitter end.

5 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:42:44am

I wish polls like this would take a look at how many want to vote across party lines /change party affiliation since I'm sure some of those "anti-establishment' votes were just standard "get rid of the Republican/Democrat bum and replace him with a good honest Democrat/Republican!"

6 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:44:32am

The GOP is basically going to bat for the top 2 percent earners of the country. That leaves the other 98 percent who probably have no interest in extending the top Bush tax cuts for said 2 percent. From that 98 percent is a small minority of pedestrian Tea Partiers who misidentify themselves with the 2 percent and may buy into the Bush tax cuts equals jobs meme. If they even work since a good majority of them seem to be retired persons (i.e. elderly). So I would ask the GOP how do they see this working out for them as a national party in the long haul? That is, how's the politics of Dick Armey and Eric Odem working out for you Senator McConnell and Rep. Boehner?

7 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:44:53am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Of course this was easily predictable and won't slow the Republicans down at all. They're going to ride this nonsense to the bitter end.

Yes, they are doubling down on the no compromise solution. I hope this strategy backfires big time. So far, it looks like the public "gets it".

They are tired of this crap and want something done. The time for playing games has long since passed.

8 elizajane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:45:39am

It's heartening to think that a majority of Americans are paying attention to what actually happens in Washington, rather than to how the Right spins it. Because the amount of effort that everybody from the WSJ editorial page to Rush Limbaugh is putting into pinning the downgrade, the stock market slump etc. onto Obama is quite extraordinary.

9 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:46:11am

re: #1 laZardo

But will they still vote for Generic Republican over Obama in 2012?


Poll: Will anti-Congress mood cause another 'wave' election?

And a majority of Americans, 51%, say President Obama doesn't deserve re-election; 47% say he does. Obama bests an unnamed Republican presidential candidate by 49%-45%, though he remains below the 50% threshold.


This poll just came out today. Not sure if it's a shift from previous polls.

10 The Yankee  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:46:18am

But the 59% that disapproved are not real americans

11 dragonfire1981  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:46:32am

The question is will all the people polled bother to vote next year? Make no mistake the GOP voters will be out in droves come election time and I am reasonably certain the Republicans are banking on a decrease in support for Obama (ie people who voted for him before won't do so again.

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:47:45am

Do people really pay attn? I how I would hope so.

13 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:48:11am

re: #10 The Yankee

But the 59% that disapproved are not real americans

...

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS ANOTHER DEMOCRAT PARTY AND SOROS DRIVEN POLL!!11TY THEY LIE!!11TY THIS IS YET ANOTHER ALINSKY TACTIC BEING PERPETRATED BY TEH COMMNUINISTIC LIBRULS!!11TY

14 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:48:51am

re: #11 dragonfire1981

The question is will all the people polled bother to vote next year? Make no mistake the GOP voters will be out in droves come election time and I am reasonably certain the Republicans are banking on a decrease in support for Obama (ie people who voted for him before won't do so again.

They are counting on more than a lack of support. They are actively making it harder for people likely Democrats to vote. They know high turnout favors the democrats.

15 albusteve  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:49:22am

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Of course this was easily predictable and won't slow the Republicans down at all. They're going to ride this nonsense to the bitter end.

the polls are a conspiracy
the polls lied

16 Jaerik  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:49:36am

Honestly my biggest worry is that the people who still approve of the Republicans and Tea Party are so nuts, their vote turnout is likely to be astronomical.

Meanwhile Obama's base is pretty disillusioned and might just stay home.

17 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:49:59am

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Poll: Will anti-Congress mood cause another 'wave' election?


This poll just came out today. Not sure if it's a shift from previous polls.

Obama beats Generic Republican? Who can save us now?

18 The Yankee  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:50:02am

re: #11 dragonfire1981

The question is will all the people polled bother to vote next year? Make no mistake the GOP voters will be out in droves come election time and I am reasonably certain the Republicans are banking on a decrease in support for Obama (ie people who voted for him before won't do so again.

If the opponent is Bachman, Perry or the pizza guy I can a sure you they will come out and vote.
The Ironic thing is if it is Pawlenty or Mitt the GOP won't come out and neither will the left.

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:50:32am

re: #16 Jaerik

Honestly my biggest worry is that the people who still approve of the Republicans and Tea Party are so nuts, their vote turnout is likely to be astronomical.

Meanwhile Obama's base is pretty disillusioned and might just stay home.

Then they deserve what's coming. Too bad there will be so much collateral damage...

20 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:50:47am

re: #17 jamesfirecat

Obama beats Generic Republican? Who can save us now?

I saw that this morning. On Newsmax no less. "Obama BEATS generic Republican." Made me laugh.

21 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:51:17am

WI results tonight will also be a good mood indicator.

22 albusteve  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:51:25am

re: #16 Jaerik

Honestly my biggest worry is that the people who still approve of the Republicans and Tea Party are so nuts, their vote turnout is likely to be astronomical.

Meanwhile Obama's base is pretty disillusioned and might just stay home.

when I suggested this very scenario I was told that big poll numbers favor democrats...whatever that's worth

23 jaunte  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:52:39am

re: #6 Gus 802

... how's the politics of Dick Armey and Eric Odem working out for you Senator McConnell and Rep. Boehner?


If you happen to be rich
And you find you are left by your voters,
Though you moan and you groan
Quite a lot, you can take it
On the chin, call a cab,
And begin to recover
On your fourteen-carat yacht.

24 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:53:40am

re: #16 Jaerik

Honestly my biggest worry is that the people who still approve of the Republicans and Tea Party are so nuts, their vote turnout is likely to be astronomical.

Meanwhile Obama's base is pretty disillusioned and might just stay home.

Then put that worried energy to use and get active.

25 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:53:57am

The Democrats have to invest in a "get out the vote" campaign for next year. It won't be cheap. But if they don't do so it may present a serious problem for them come November. This is especially true given that ACORN is largely out of the picture.

26 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:54:50am

re: #25 Gus 802

The Democrats have to invest in a "get out the vote" campaign for next year. It won't be cheap. But if they don't do so it may present a serious problem for them come November. This is especially true given that ACORN is largely out of the picture.

At least Obama won't have to worry about spending money on a Primary the way the Republicans all will....

27 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:55:47am

re: #26 jamesfirecat

At least Obama won't have to worry about spending money on a Primary the way the Republicans all will...

Good point. BTW, gosh, how those fucking "primary Obama" nuts annoy me.

28 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:57:00am

re: #16 Jaerik

Honestly my biggest worry is that the people who still approve of the Republicans and Tea Party are so nuts, their vote turnout is likely to be astronomical.

Meanwhile Obama's base is pretty disillusioned and might just stay home.

Once a republican candidate is named and the real race is on, they will get pumped. I wouldn't worry about that too much.

That said, it is incumbent on the democrats to work very hard to GOTV!!

29 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:57:12am

re: #27 Sergey Romanov

Good point. BTW, gosh, how those fucking "primary Obama" nuts annoy me.

That would be political suicide. Even if they could afford it which I doubt. No official Democratic Party organization would support such a move. The only other danger I could see would be another Ralph Nader in the field.

30 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:57:24am

re: #27 Sergey Romanov

Good point. BTW, gosh, how those fucking "primary Obama" nuts annoy me.

Has anyone ever made a halfway successful attempt to primary a sitting president? (Serious question)

31 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:58:37am

re: #30 jamesfirecat

Has anyone ever made a halfway successful attempt to primary a sitting president? (Serious question)


Reagan came close to doing so to Ford in '76 but that was kind of unique given that Ford is the only man never elected president or vice president. Kennedy didn't come close to Carter in 1980.

32 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:59:12am

re: #29 Gus 802

That would be political suicide. Even if they could afford it which I doubt. No official Democratic Party organization would support such a move. The only other danger I could see would be another Ralph Nader in the field.

Obama would swat any contender like a fly, but yeah, third-party run is dangerous.

33 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:59:12am

re: #30 jamesfirecat

Has anyone ever made a halfway successful attempt to primary a sitting president? (Serious question)

Carter/Kennedy

34 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:59:42am

re: #30 jamesfirecat

Has anyone ever made a halfway successful attempt to primary a sitting president? (Serious question)

Ted Kennedy and Teddy Roosevelt

Reagan primaried Ford

35 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 11:59:46am

re: #31 HappyWarrior

Reagan came close to doing so to Ford in '76 but that was kind of unique given that Ford is the only man never elected president or vice president. Kennedy didn't come close to Carter in 1980.

In the age of teabag, it wouldn't surprise me to see the next GOP president at least threatened to be primaried.

36 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:00:33pm

re: #35 Bulworth

In the age of teabag, it wouldn't surprise me to see the next GOP president at least threatened to be primaried.

Yeah no one is goign to be conservative enough.

37 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:00:47pm

Ed Morrisey think this is a big win for Wingnuts....
Gallup: Obama loses three points overnight, economic confidence plunges to 2-year low

How can anyone have confidence in an administration and a political party that refuses to acknowledge reality? If they’re still running with a “Happy Days Are Here Again” theme by next summer, the elections might be a bloodbath for Democrats.

38 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:01:39pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey think this is a big win for Wingnuts...
Gallup: Obama loses three points overnight, economic confidence plunges to 2-year low

And stupid Ed forgets that Republicans approval ratings are much lower than the Dems but it's fun to live in a fantasy world isn't it Ed? I like the pink elephants myself.

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:01:46pm

OK, this is just weird.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

40 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:02:55pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey think this is a big win for Wingnuts...
Gallup: Obama loses three points overnight, economic confidence plunges to 2-year low

" How can anyone have confidence in an administration and a political party that refuses to acknowledge reality? "

How indeed Ed.... how indeed?

41 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:03:06pm

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

OK, this is just weird.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Some hipsters do that here in Portland. It's pretty gross.

42 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:03:09pm

I think if I am not mistaken only a couple times has a sitting president been denied renomination. Franklin Pierce in 1856 and that's about it that comes to mind. I want to say Arthur was by James G. Blaine in 1884 but Arthur may have not even ran for renomination. Point is its rare.

43 Zathras  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:04:03pm

re: #35 Bulworth

In the age of teabag, it wouldn't surprise me to see the next GOP president at least threatened to be primaried.

Buchanan tried to primary Bush Sr. in '92. He wasn't very successful then. If it were held now, it would probably be a very different story.

44 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:04:28pm

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

OK, this is just weird.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

It dovetails nicely with the people who claim that owning appliances means you're not poor.

The prols will learn their place soon. //

45 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:04:31pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey think this is a big win for Wingnuts...
Gallup: Obama loses three points overnight, economic confidence plunges to 2-year low

How can anyone have confidence in an administration and a political party that refuses to acknowledge reality?

He's right. How can we trust Obama when he still lives in a reality where he thinks the GOP can be trusted as a sane negotiating partner? WE'RE DOOMED!

46 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:05:33pm

re: #43 Zathras

Buchanan tried to primary Bush Sr. in '92. He wasn't very successful then. If it were held now, it would probably be a very different story.

True. Scary, but true.

47 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:06:05pm

I forgot all about Buchanan vs Bush I in 1992. Pat won New Hampshire didn't he?

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:07:01pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Some hipsters do that here in Portland. It's pretty gross.

They should like go start a farm or something. /

49 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:07:14pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey think this is a big win for Wingnuts...
Gallup: Obama loses three points overnight, economic confidence plunges to 2-year low

Refuse to acknowledge reality? And in favor of what? A party that think the solution to America's economic problems is found only in tax cuts for the rich, prohibiting abortion and banning gay marriage? A party whose members refuse to acknowledge the realities of a global recession of which DC had little influence on? These guys think the USA lives in a vacuum. America has been also effected by global markets on a near daily basis.

50 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:07:29pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

I forgot all about Buchanan vs Bush I in 1992. Pat won New Hampshire didn't he?

While these primary challenges were unsuccessful, the primaried candidate went on to lose the general election (Carter, HW Bush).

51 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:08:00pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Some hipsters do that here in Portland. It's pretty gross.

That's probably hippies. Hipsters might do it ironically though.

52 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:08:40pm

re: #49 Gus 802

Refuse to acknowledge reality? And in favor of what? A party that think the solution to America's economic problems is found only in tax cuts for the rich, prohibiting abortion and banning gay marriage? A party whose members refuse to acknowledge the realities of a global recession of which DC had little influence on? These guys think the USA lives in a vacuum. America has been also effected by global markets on a near daily basis.

FORTRESS AMERICA!11!!

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:09:11pm

re: #51 recusancy

That's probably hippies. Hipsters might do it ironically though.

Hipsters hiptlers hippies ... get offa ma lawn! //

54 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:09:16pm

A party that voted against benefits for 9/11 first responders? A party that voted against health care reform? A party that voted against keeping jobs in America? A party that votes for the richest two percent of America? That party?

55 Olsonist  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:09:33pm

re: #16 Jaerik

Honestly my biggest worry is that the people who still approve of the Republicans and Tea Party are so nuts, their vote turnout is likely to be astronomical.

Meanwhile Obama's base is pretty disillusioned and might just stay home.

I'm not sure that Obama ever had a base, per se. What he had was a coalition of centrists and progressives. And yes, us progressives are mightily upset with him. Exactly what did we get?

Ending Don't Ask Don't Tell wasn't his accomplishment. It was passed by a lame duck Senate; he could have ended it with a signature.

Rahm Emmanuel and Geithner were not what we expected. Escalating Afghanistan and remaining in Iraq (we're still in Iraq) were not what we expected. Renewing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were not what we expected. Kowtowing to the Republicans was not what we expected.

It's awesome that he got OBL. No doubt there. But other than that, I have no reason to vote for Obama. He seems like a nice guy and a better version of Bush or perhaps Carter. After what I sense as at best indifference towards the workhorse part of the coalition that got him elected, I can't vote for the guy.

This disillusionment is his doing, not the Republicans. I like Republicans even less, especially this brain dead modern strain. But I can't vote for Obama.

56 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:11:38pm

re: #55 Olsonist

"It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!"

57 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:12:16pm

re: #56 Sergey Romanov

"It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!"

I think you mean Black Robed Shadow Cabal.

58 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:12:34pm

re: #55 Olsonist

Pathetic. You're part of the problem.

59 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:12:54pm

re: #52 Varek Raith

FORTRESS AMERICA!11!!

Euro crisis. The Yen. Now possibly inflation in China. Oil prices jumping on Middle East turmoil such as Egypt and further to the West in North Africa, Libya. Fiscal problems in Ireland, Portugal, and Greece all have a negative effect on our economy. All ignored by the right wing pundits. There only answer? A simplistic version of Reagan: tax cuts.

60 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:12:56pm

re: #55 Olsonist

I'm not sure that Obama ever had a base, per se. What he had was a coalition of centrists and progressives. And yes, us progressives are mightily upset with him. Exactly what did we get?

Ending Don't Ask Don't Tell wasn't his accomplishment. It was passed by a lame duck Senate; he could have ended it with a signature.

Rahm Emmanuel and Geithner were not what we expected. Escalating Afghanistan and remaining in Iraq (we're still in Iraq) were not what we expected. Renewing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were not what we expected. Kowtowing to the Republicans was not what we expected.

It's awesome that he got OBL. No doubt there. But other than that, I have no reason to vote for Obama. He seems like a nice guy and a better version of Bush or perhaps Carter. After what I sense as at best indifference towards the workhorse part of the coalition that got him elected, I can't vote for the guy.

This disillusionment is his doing, not the Republicans. I like Republicans even less, especially this brain dead modern strain. But I can't vote for Obama.

I think all this disillusionment comes from the fact that it's the legislature that actually makes the laws, the executive only enforces them. What happened in 2010 was primarily out of spite.

And it doesn't help that people don't exactly realize that they tend to get what they wished for.

61 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:13:00pm

re: #55 Olsonist

I'm not sure that Obama ever had a base, per se. What he had was a coalition of centrists and progressives. And yes, us progressives are mightily upset with him. Exactly what did we get?

Ending Don't Ask Don't Tell wasn't his accomplishment. It was passed by a lame duck Senate; he could have ended it with a signature.

Rahm Emmanuel and Geithner were not what we expected. Escalating Afghanistan and remaining in Iraq (we're still in Iraq) were not what we expected. Renewing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were not what we expected. Kowtowing to the Republicans was not what we expected.

It's awesome that he got OBL. No doubt there. But other than that, I have no reason to vote for Obama. He seems like a nice guy and a better version of Bush or perhaps Carter. After what I sense as at best indifference towards the workhorse part of the coalition that got him elected, I can't vote for the guy.

This disillusionment is his doing, not the Republicans. I like Republicans even less, especially this brain dead modern strain. But I can't vote for Obama.

Then dont cry if we get a republican like Perry.

62 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:13:37pm

re: #55 Olsonist

Good grief.
No offense, but you sound like a TPer with that purity nonsense.

63 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:15:23pm

re: #58 recusancy

Pathetic. You're part of the problem.

As we say, I'll tear out my eye to spite my mother-in-law - let her have an eyeless son-in-law.

64 lawhawk  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:15:30pm

The Fed speaks, the markets waiver. Oy.

Basically, the Fed is saying that they're not going to do anything to stimulate the markets or adjust rates.

In the statement, the Federal Reserve said that the risk of a downturn in the nation’s economy had increased, and that it was prepared to continue to hold short-term interest rates near zero through mid-2013 to support the faltering economy. But it included no new measures.

Dan Greenhaus, the chief global strategist for BTIG LLC, noted that the Fed acknowledged in its statement that risks of further deterioration have increased and that it specified how low rates would be and for how long. Altogether, Mr. Greenhaus said, “the implication is clearly that the Fed is moving to a more accommodative policy, albeit one that doesn’t do much to boost economic activity.”

Investors had been awaiting the meeting of the Fed’s policy board for any guidance or signals about the economy or the possibility of the Fed injecting any further monetary stimulus.

We're on our own.... Congress is already looking at the elections next year, the Fed is hunkering down, and the WH can only manage the bully pulpit.

65 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:15:32pm

re: #61 blueraven

Then dont cry if we get a republican like Perry.

Perry would make Bush seem like an atheist.

//

66 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:15:32pm

re: #55 Olsonist

I'm not sure that Obama ever had a base, per se. What he had was a coalition of centrists and progressives. And yes, us progressives are mightily upset with him. Exactly what did we get?

Ending Don't Ask Don't Tell wasn't his accomplishment. It was passed by a lame duck Senate; he could have ended it with a signature.

Rahm Emmanuel and Geithner were not what we expected. Escalating Afghanistan and remaining in Iraq (we're still in Iraq) were not what we expected. Renewing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were not what we expected. Kowtowing to the Republicans was not what we expected.

It's awesome that he got OBL. No doubt there. But other than that, I have no reason to vote for Obama. He seems like a nice guy and a better version of Bush or perhaps Carter. After what I sense as at best indifference towards the workhorse part of the coalition that got him elected, I can't vote for the guy.

This disillusionment is his doing, not the Republicans. I like Republicans even less, especially this brain dead modern strain. But I can't vote for Obama.

And oh yeah...Sure Obama could have ended DADT by executive order, and the next President could have reversed it. This way...it is law. Dont be stupid.

67 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:16:39pm
Basically, the Fed is saying that they're not going to do anything to stimulate the markets or adjust rates.

Shocking. //

The Fed no longer cares about one-half of its job description. The part about full employment.

68 jamesfirecat  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:16:56pm

re: #55 Olsonist

I'm not sure that Obama ever had a base, per se. What he had was a coalition of centrists and progressives. And yes, us progressives are mightily upset with him. Exactly what did we get?

Ending Don't Ask Don't Tell wasn't his accomplishment. It was passed by a lame duck Senate; he could have ended it with a signature.

Rahm Emmanuel and Geithner were not what we expected. Escalating Afghanistan and remaining in Iraq (we're still in Iraq) were not what we expected. Renewing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy were not what we expected. Kowtowing to the Republicans was not what we expected.

It's awesome that he got OBL. No doubt there. But other than that, I have no reason to vote for Obama. He seems like a nice guy and a better version of Bush or perhaps Carter. After what I sense as at best indifference towards the workhorse part of the coalition that got him elected, I can't vote for the guy.

This disillusionment is his doing, not the Republicans. I like Republicans even less, especially this brain dead modern strain. But I can't vote for Obama.

If you can admit that Obama is better than the alternative than why do you spite America by refusing to vote for the better Candidate?

69 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:17:24pm
70 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:17:33pm

re: #64 lawhawk

The Fed speaks, the markets waiver. Oy.

Basically, the Fed is saying that they're not going to do anything to stimulate the markets or adjust rates.

We're on our own... Congress is already looking at the elections next year, the Fed is hunkering down, and the WH can only manage the bully pulpit.

And that's why it should be abolished. The banks themselves can do a better job of managing our currency.

71 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:18:02pm

re: #62 Varek Raith

Good grief.
No offense, but you sound like a TPer with that purity nonsense.

Someone has a twitchy flamer finger.

"Must..meet...purity...standards..."

72 Atlas Fails  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:18:07pm

re: #24 recusancy

Then put that worried energy to use and get active.

Amen. President Obama is not candidate Obama, but that's okay. Do I wish he was more active on the marriage equality front? Definitely. Do I wish he would have pushed harder for a public option? You betcha. Was I disappointed he caved to the Tea Baggers' terrorist (cue outrage) debt ceiling tactics? Absolutely. Did I feel betrayed when he failed to close Gitmo or repeal the Patriot Act? A bit.

But I also believe he is one of the few power players in Washington who is genuinely trying to move this country in the right direction. He prevented a depression when he first came into office, an impressive feat that shouldn't be downplayed. He killed bin Laden while withdrawing from Iraq and finally starting an Afghanistan draw down. He's greatly improved our perception around the globe and has helped revive America's tattered image in Europe. Most importantly, he is not a Bagger. Plus, if he wins a second term, the GOP's shameful attempts to get him voted out (just ask McConnel) may die down a little and the Baggers might get so discouraged they just go away (please God!). That's why I plan on being a student volunteer for the Obama reelection campaign.

Sorry for the long-windedness :)

73 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:18:17pm

re: #64 lawhawk

The Fed speaks, the markets waiver. Oy.

Basically, the Fed is saying that they're not going to do anything to stimulate the markets or adjust rates.

We're on our own... Congress is already looking at the elections next year, the Fed is hunkering down, and the WH can only manage the bully pulpit.

Dow back up to +174

74 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:18:45pm

Those with a purity test need to get over their high ideals they have of themselves and others. Put the ego down, quit sniffing your own farts and join the real world.

75 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:19:41pm

re: #74 recusancy

Those with a purity test need to get over their high ideals they have of themselves and others. Put the ego down, quit sniffing your own farts and join the real world.

WHERE'S MY UNICORN?!?!
Oh, right.
I voted for McCain.
I got bamboozled!
:P

76 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:20:12pm

re: #72 Atlas Fails

That's why I plan on being a student volunteer for the Obama reelection campaign.

^-- Thank you!

77 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:20:31pm

re: #1 laZardo

But will they still vote for Generic Republican over Obama in 2012?

The Generic Republican

78 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:20:34pm

re: #72 Atlas Fails

In 2007 he said he would go into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden.

WELP.

79 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:21:02pm
I think all this disillusionment comes from the fact that it's the legislature that actually makes the laws, the executive only enforces them.

Despite all the RW yak yak about "czars" and Obama as dictator teabag rhetoric, Obama has behaved very much as you describe here. Obama has been remarkably "conservative" in this sense.

Where he did exercise more direct leadership was in pushing for a stimulus and in saving the auto companies. This latter action was, I think, pretty important, and considerably controversial to the nihilistic gasbags on the right, who, much as they wanted default and downgrade, wanted the auto companies to go bankrupt and fail.

80 Atlas Fails  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:21:07pm

Oh, and liberal protest voters can go fuck themselves, especially the ones that voted for Nader in 2000.

81 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:21:13pm

re: #78 laZardo

In 2007 he said he would go into Pakistan to kill Bin Laden.

WELP.

But George Bush killed him!
/

82 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:21:24pm

re: #75 Varek Raith

WHERE'S MY UNICORN?!?!
Oh, right.
I voted for McCain.
I got bamboozled!
:P

Then you also voted for Palin? It's OK. I won't point and laugh. Well, maybe just a little. MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

/////////

83 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:21:30pm
84 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:22:11pm

re: #82 Sergey Romanov

Then you also voted for Palin? It's OK. I won't point and laugh. Well, maybe just a little. MUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

///

I also voted for Bush's second term.
My first presidential election.
Oy.

85 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:22:49pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

I also voted for Bush's second term.
My first presidential election.
Oy.

oohhh.. that'll be a tough one to shake.

86 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:22:53pm

It's still very frustrating for me. People are looking for the government to have all of the magic answer while the private sector gets off the hook once again. People should be demanding more from the private sector instead of blaming Obama (or Bush) in these matters. The Meltdown of 2008 was largely the creation of the individual financial institutions themselves. This may have been avoided through better regulations but at the end of the day it wasn't the government that was "guilty" of causing this crisis. It was Bear Stearns, AIG, Goldman Sachs, and so on. We should demand more from the firms and our corporations. Just as much as we demand from our politicians.

87 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:23:32pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

I also voted for Bush's second term.
My first presidential election.
Oy.

It's O... well, no.

///

88 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:23:50pm

re: #84 Varek Raith

I also voted for Bush's second term.
My first presidential election.
Oy.

That's OK...the good thing is you will have many more chances to get it right. :)

89 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:24:05pm

I understand some of the disappointment with Obama but on the other hand, I think some people on the left were expecting a miracle worker or are ignoring the fact that many of the Congressional Republicans will not compromise with him at all. So, I see a little from both sides. Now that said he's better than any of the Republican alternatives running.

90 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:24:13pm

re: #85 recusancy

oohhh.. that'll be a tough one to shake.

Don't remind me.:)
I was all over the place trying to figure out my politics.
Now?
Liberal centrist Sith Lord?
Beats me!
:)

91 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:24:22pm

re: #47 HappyWarrior

I forgot all about Buchanan vs Bush I in 1992. Pat won New Hampshire didn't he?

He also got a prime speaking slot at the '92 RNC for his efforts, too.

I saw that speech. It turned me completely off to social conservatism for good.

92 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:24:55pm

re: #88 blueraven

I confess that I also voted for McCain in 2008.

i've mentioned it several times already but as my penance i feel i must admit it again. ;__;

93 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:09pm

re: #86 Gus 802

It's still very frustrating for me. People are looking for the government to have all of the magic answer while the private sector gets off the hook once again. People should be demanding more from the private sector instead of blaming Obama (or Bush) in these matters. The Meltdown of 2008 was largely the creation of the individual financial institutions themselves. This may have been avoided through better regulations but at the end of the day it wasn't the government that was "guilty" of causing this crisis. It was Bear Stearns, AIG, Goldman Sachs, and so on. We should demand more from the firms and our corporations. Just as much as we demand from our politicians.

This, excellent point.

94 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:10pm

re: #88 blueraven

That's OK...the good thing is you will have many more chances to get it right. :)

Well, until Obama decided to declare himself President for Life, using his youth army and Acorn to enforce his decrees. He's coming for our guns any day now.

Soon.

Very soon.
/

95 Bulworth  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:23pm

re: #91 Lidane

He also got a prime speaking slot at the '92 RNC for his efforts, too.

I saw that speech. It turned me completely off to social conservatism for good.

Even George Fockin Will was turned off by the GOP convention that year.

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:37pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Don't remind me.:)
I was all over the place trying to figure out my politics.
Now?
Liberal centrist Sith Lord?
Beats me!
:)

You squeeze them with the Force ... but lovingly.

97 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:42pm
98 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:45pm

"Don't look at me! I didn't do it. It's not my fault! The government let me do it!" -- Bear Stearns 2008

Bullshit!

99 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:25:47pm

re: #90 Varek Raith


Beats me!
:)

Challenge accepted.

/cracks knuckles

100 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:26:46pm

re: #67 Bulworth

Shocking. //

The Fed no longer cares about one-half of its job description. The part about full employment.

Sorry to have to say this, but that was and always has been a stupid job for a central bank.

101 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:26:58pm

re: #55 Olsonist

Exactly what did we get?

You got exactly what Obama promised.

Any progressive disillusionment is entirely your own goddamn fault. You didn't pay attention to what he actually said and how he campaigned. He was never a progressive firebrand. He's been a centrist/pragmatist since day one.

102 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:27:01pm

I voted for Obama, campaigned for Kerry, and supported Gore to the end in 2000. Guess I am something of a Dem partisan though I have independent leanings somewhat.

103 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:27:16pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, until Obama decided to declare himself President for Life, using his youth army and Acorn to enforce his decrees. He's coming for our guns any day now.

Soon.

Very soon.
/

104 albusteve  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:27:29pm

re: #98 Gus 802

"Don't look at me! I didn't do it. It's not my fault! The government let me do it!" -- Bear Stearns 2008

Bullshit!

who cares if your mortgage payment is 75% of your income....have a house!

105 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:28:13pm

re: #55 Olsonist

Escalating Afghanistan and remaining in Iraq (we're still in Iraq) were not what we expected.

The more I read your comment the more delusional it sounds. How did you not expect escalation in Afghanistan when he campaigned heavily on that fact. Were you actually listening to what he said?

106 albusteve  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:28:26pm

uh oh...somebody dissed BO...

107 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:28:31pm

re: #86 Gus 802

It's still very frustrating for me. People are looking for the government to have all of the magic answer while the private sector gets off the hook once again. People should be demanding more from the private sector instead of blaming Obama (or Bush) in these matters. The Meltdown of 2008 was largely the creation of the individual financial institutions themselves. This may have been avoided through better regulations but at the end of the day it wasn't the government that was "guilty" of causing this crisis. It was Bear Stearns, AIG, Goldman Sachs, and so on. We should demand more from the firms and our corporations. Just as much as we demand from our politicians.

There's no way to hold businesses accountable other than the shareholders - who don't care as they're making money. Government is needed to regulate. Business will exploit anything it can. There's no morality in it. You're asking for something that will never happen.

108 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:28:40pm

re: #104 albusteve

who cares if your mortgage payment is 75% of your income...have a house!

Exactly. Them too. The realtors. They didn't even give a crap as long as you signed on the dotted line. They got their commission and ran away from their own personal responsibility in causing this mess.

109 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:28:59pm

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

OK, this is just weird.

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Good thing the MSM is there to provide the valuable tips that my community needs. *barf*

110 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:29:17pm

re: #80 Atlas Fails

Oh, and liberal protest voters can go fuck themselves, especially the ones that voted for Nader in 2000.

What if I voted for Nader, but not as a "liberal protest voter"?

111 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:29:28pm

re: #106 albusteve

uh oh...somebody dissed BO...

It's not about dissing BO. Diss him all you want (rationally). It's about the stupid choices.

112 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:29:40pm
113 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:30:03pm

re: #107 recusancy

There's no way to hold businesses accountable other than the shareholders - who don't care as they're making money. Government is needed to regulate. Business will exploit anything it can. There's no morality in it. You're asking for something that will never happen.

Yeah. I'm a dreamer. But we can at least demand that government holds them accountable. However, I'd be going back to blaming government then. These people need to be in jail.

114 The Yankee  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:30:43pm

re: #80 Atlas Fails

Oh, and liberal protest voters can go fuck themselves, especially the ones that voted for Nader in 2000.

I would fuck my self but it is so hard, and difficult. How does one do that?

115 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:30:43pm

re: #112 Varek Raith

Polygamist leader Warren Jeffs sentenced to life in prison
Good riddance.

The title "polygamist leader" is a little too endearing IMHO. Should have read "Child fucker Warren Jeffs sentenced to life in prison".

Monster.

116 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:31:08pm

The fact of the matter is far as I'm concerned, the left partisans are just like the right ones- impossible to satisfy and have this idea that the there's a perfect liberal/conservative knight who will sweep in and save the day. On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear criticism of Obama from the left because I was and am sick tired of the bullshit meme that Democrats/liberals support the man no matter what. I'll probably still vote for him but I have my disagreements with him and you know what that's fine.

117 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:31:17pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

What if I voted for Nader, but not as a "liberal protest voter"?

Then you were a naive idealist.

118 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:31:39pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Yeah. I'm a dreamer. But we can at least demand that government holds them accountable. However, I'd be going back to blaming government then. These people need to be in jail.

Yes. The they aren't going to put themselves in jail. That's the governments job.

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:32:09pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

What if I voted for Nader, but not as a "liberal protest voter"?

As who then? ;)

120 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:32:14pm

re: #117 recusancy

Then you were a naive idealist.

More of a nihilist cynic, at that particular point, not that it makes any difference in terms of the result.

121 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:32:15pm

re: #114 The Yankee

I would fuck my self but it is so hard, and difficult. How does one do that?

Yoga

122 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:32:24pm

re: #118 recusancy

Yes. The they aren't going to put themselves in jail. That's the governments job.

Good one. :)

123 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:33:24pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

More of a nihilist cynic, at that particular point, not that it makes any difference in terms of the result.

Opposite side of the same coin.

124 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:33:35pm

re: #114 The Yankee

I would fuck my self but it is so hard, and difficult. How does one do that?

Miracles.

125 Atlas Fails  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:33:46pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

Hmm, tricky. I guess I can give you a pass, but only because I like your posts and hindsight's always 20/20. The rest of the Nader voters can eat a dick, along with some of the crybabies over at DKos and HuffPo who want to primary Obama with Kucinich or some other moonbat. Seriously, fuck them.

126 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:34:04pm

re: #123 recusancy

Opposite side of the same coin.

Indeed. I have morphed into a practical person since then. To some degree.

127 Amory Blaine  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:34:31pm
128 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:34:47pm

re: #106 albusteve

uh oh...somebody dissed BO...

No, somebody is delusional about what he promised. He said he would escalate Afghanistan. You can disagree with that move, but to say he didn't campaign on that, is to disregard the facts.

To cry that he didn't end DADT with executive order is just crazy. Much better to do it legislatively. And really...it is done, so that is just whining.

129 Spocomptonite  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:34:50pm

Nero played his lyre while Rome burned. What's an appropriate instrument/metaphor for Republicans while they watch the U.S. Economy burn?

130 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:35:16pm

re: #125 Atlas Fails

Hmm, tricky. I guess I can give you a pass, but only because I like your posts and hindsight's always 20/20. The rest of the Nader voters can eat a dick, along with some of the crybabies over at DKos and HuffPo who want to primary Obama with Kucinich or some other moonbat. Seriously, fuck them.

Are you a member of Team Fuck Yeah?

131 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:35:36pm

Waiting for Scot Stevenson to explain to me why the US has always been a two-faction political system.

132 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:35:44pm

re: #129 Spocomptonite

Nero played his lyre while Rome burned. What's an appropriate instrument/metaphor for Republicans while they watch the U.S. Economy burn?



How about a song by one of their own?

133 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:35:46pm

re: #116 HappyWarrior

The fact of the matter is far as I'm concerned, the left partisans are just like the right ones- impossible to satisfy and have this idea that the there's a perfect liberal/conservative knight who will sweep in and save the day. On the other hand, it's refreshing to hear criticism of Obama from the left because I was and am sick tired of the bullshit meme that Democrats/liberals support the man no matter what. I'll probably still vote for him but I have my disagreements with him and you know what that's fine.

I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised to learn that some people who voted for McCain in 2008 will vote for Obama in 2012. Mostly independents of course.

134 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:35:55pm

re: #129 Spocomptonite

Nero played his lyre while Rome burned. What's an appropriate instrument/metaphor for Republicans while they watch the U.S. Economy burn?

I think they are beating drums.

135 albusteve  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:36:12pm

re: #128 blueraven

No, somebody is delusional about what he promised. He said he would escalate Afghanistan. You can disagree with that move, but to say he didn't campaign on that, is to disregard the facts.

To cry that he didn't end DADT with executive order is just crazy. Much better to do it legislatively. And really...it is done, so that is just whining.

4/5 of the posts here are whining....but when you whine and moan all day about the GOP you get a pass...LOL!

136 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:36:35pm

re: #127 Amory Blaine

I like this one

Eh, somebody should make a pack for Heroes of Might and Magic with the Colbert castle. /

137 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:36:54pm

re: #124 laZardo

Miracles.

Fucking magnets.

138 Spocomptonite  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:37:03pm

re: #132 laZardo

Nice. Perfectly fitting, too.

139 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:37:41pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fucking magnets.

How did they get here?

140 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:37:44pm

re: #109 Amory Blaine

Oh noes the freegans again!

141 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:37:53pm

re: #129 Spocomptonite

Nero played his lyre while Rome burned. What's an appropriate instrument/metaphor for Republicans while they watch the U.S. Economy burn?

Accordian.

142 Olsonist  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:37:55pm

re: #105 blueraven

The more I read your comment the more delusional it sounds. How did you not expect escalation in Afghanistan when he campaigned heavily on that fact. Were you actually listening to what he said?

You might be right on that actually listening to what he said part. His vocal opposition to the Iraq invasion was on my mind.

[My brother just got back from Afghanistan.]

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:38:46pm

re: #142 Olsonist

That's 2002, man. (Yes, that matters.)

144 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:39:13pm

re: #142 Olsonist

You might be right on that actually listening to what he said part. His vocal opposition to the Iraq invasion was on my mind.

[My brother just got back from Afghanistan.]

He was not campaigning for president when he made that speech.

145 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:39:37pm

Crazy on the march...

McCain faces angry crowd at Gilbert town-hall meeting

Tea-party activists called McCain "out of touch" when the senator said he didn't know about United Nations "Agenda 21."One man described the initiative as a "takeover of the United States of America by taking over our farms."

"First, our firearms, then our farms," another man added.

Damn.

146 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:04pm

re: #127 Amory Blaine

I like this one

Obama's in serious trouble.

147 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:11pm

re: #135 albusteve

4/5 of the posts here are whining...but when you whine and moan all day about the GOP you get a pass...LOL!

Back at ya, sweetcakes.

148 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:17pm

_All_ politicians are liars. Those who don't understand that usually learn very fast. But there are liars and liars.

149 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:32pm

re: #142 Olsonist

I was adamantly and totally opposed to the Iraq invasion on every ground.

As soon as we commenced it, that became irrelevant, and instead I wanted us to commit enough manpower to actually get the job done. On this I differed from Obama. Obama still wanted us to draw down from Iraq; and he's doing just that. I'm not sure how that can be a point against him, except the speed at which we're doing it.

Politifact, which is generally rather harsh in their judgement, says this is a Promise Kept by Obama.

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

150 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:37pm

re: #144 wrenchwench

He was not campaigning for president when he made that speech.

He was campaigning for president in '02?

151 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:37pm

re: #145 makeitstop

Crazy on the march...

McCain faces angry crowd at Gilbert town-hall meeting

Damn.

TEHY CAME FUR UR GUNZ!

152 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:55pm

re: #145 makeitstop

Crazy on the march...

McCain faces angry crowd at Gilbert town-hall meeting

Damn.

That "Agenda 21" foolishness is infesting the Southwest at the moment. Thanks to the Tea Partiers.

153 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:40:57pm

New Pawlenty ad....

I don;t think the credit rating thing is going to be a winning issue for the republicans.

154 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:41:07pm

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Of course this was easily predictable and won't slow the Republicans down at all. They're going to ride this nonsense to the bitter end.

What's spookier: The TGOP not having an exit strategy to the agenda they committed to or the Dems compromising on whatever?

155 Atlas Fails  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:41:11pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

Are you a member of Team Fuck Yeah?

AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!

156 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:41:35pm

re: #148 Sergey Romanov

_All_ politicians are liars. Those who don't understand that usually learn very fast. But there are liars and liars.

Tsongas wasn't. He just dodged like a pro. Seriously, he was a terrible liar and so developed an alternative strategy, not out of ethics but simple practicality.

(Or did he?)/

157 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:41:47pm

re: #150 recusancy

He was campaigning for president in '02?

I told you the secret Islamosocialist conspiracy runs deep!

158 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:41:55pm

re: #133 Gus 802

I'm sure you wouldn't be surprised to learn that some people who voted for McCain in 2008 will vote for Obama in 2012. Mostly independents of course.

Yep. and that's how you win the elections all and all. I think many Indies have realized since Obama's election that he's not the far left winger he was made out to be.

159 albusteve  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:00pm

re: #145 makeitstop

Crazy on the march...

McCain faces angry crowd at Gilbert town-hall meeting

Damn.

when they come for rock and roll, I'll be revolting

160 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:01pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

That "Agenda 21" foolishness is infesting the Southwest at the moment. Thanks to the Tea Partiers.

WTF is Agenda 21? Is that like Forever 21 for the conspiracy nut crowd?

161 recusancy  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:02pm

If you can't understand the difference between opposing a stupid war before it starts and having to deal with it once it's already started then, well, I'm not quite sure what to say to help you out.

162 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:05pm

re: #156 Obdicut

(Or did he?)/

DUN DUN DUNNN

163 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:14pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

That "Agenda 21" foolishness is infesting the Southwest at the moment. Thanks to the Tea Partiers.

Unreal, just unreal. And it sounds like a good part of the crowd has swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

164 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:33pm

re: #152 wrenchwench

That "Agenda 21" foolishness is infesting the Southwest at the moment. Thanks to the Tea Partiers.

Had to look Agenda 21 up.
For Zod's sake!

165 Robert O.  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:41pm

Let's hope tonight will be repudiation of the GOP and all it stands for in Wisconsin.

166 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:42:54pm

re: #159 albusteve

when they come for rock and roll, I'll be revolting

I'll be shoulder to shoulder with you.

167 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:43:05pm

re: #160 Lidane

WTF is Agenda 21? Is that like Forever 21 for the conspiracy nut crowd?

[Link: www.un.org...]

168 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:43:32pm

re: #155 Atlas Fails

AMERICA!!!

[Video]

Nope. Try this one. Mostly a Twitter thing, as far as I know.

169 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:43:37pm

re: #154 000G

What's spookier: The TGOP not having an exit strategy to the agenda they committed to or the Dems compromising on whatever?

Looking back at it now the Dems had to give them whatever they wanted. The Republicans were more than ready to default. Some were even eager to default. They were very serious about killing the hostage. I thought it was bluster and posturing but they would have done it.

170 Spocomptonite  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:43:37pm

re: #145 makeitstop

Crazy on the march...

McCain faces angry crowd at Gilbert town-hall meeting

Damn.

Y'know, I'm fully aware of the sundry pitfalls of having an intelligence test in order to be able to vote, but at this point it seems like it would do more good than bad.

"awww, aren't you conspiracy theorists and economically ignorant Tea Party protestors cute? Now go play with your ball while the grownups govern shit."

171 blueraven  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:43:41pm

re: #142 Olsonist

You might be right on that actually listening to what he said part. His vocal opposition to the Iraq invasion was on my mind.

[My brother just got back from Afghanistan.]

Your family has felt this up close and personal. I am in awe of all those who serve and the sacrifice of them and their families.

I would like to see this ended as well.

172 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:43:43pm

re: #165 Robert O.

That reminds me, I have to send in my voter registration (even though it's for Washington State, not Wisconsin).

Also, there is no party registration for voters in this state.

173 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:44:02pm

re: #141 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Accordian.

The tuba seems to be a more inherently Republican-sounding instrument if you ask me. There might be, somewhere in the world, something as strange as a "tuba virtuoso", but I'm not aware of any.

Also:
Image: tuba_intrique.jpg

174 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:44:19pm

re: #145 makeitstop

Crazy on the march...

McCain faces angry crowd at Gilbert town-hall meeting

Damn.

This is McCain's price for pandering and getting renominated, on the other hand, a nut like J.D Hayworth in the Senate would probably be standign right there with the nutter butters.

175 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:44:31pm

re: #167 Varek Raith

[Link: www.un.org...]

Its a heartbeat away from a secular communist one world government run by people with excessive melanin.

177 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:45:14pm

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its a heartbeat away from a secular communist one world government run by people with excessive melanin.

NORTH AMERICAN UNION!!!111!

178 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:45:42pm

re: #160 Lidane

WTF is Agenda 21? Is that like Forever 21 for the conspiracy nut crowd?

[Link: www.google.com...]

179 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:45:45pm

re: #169 Killgore Trout

Looking back at it now the Dems had to give them whatever they wanted. The Republicans were more than ready to default. Some were even eager to default. They were very serious about killing the hostage. I thought it was bluster and posturing but they would have done it.

I think it's that a minority wanted to do it, and the majority is scared of them, ineffective at controlling them. It's not that others in the GOP are much better, but without the extremism they'd be willing to deal.

However, it's not just the Tea Party, it's not just a new thing. The extremists are Norquist, Armey, Paul, Bachmann. They've been around for a long, long time.

180 wrenchwench  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:46:07pm

Happy tweet of the day.

Susan M. Bryan
@susanmbryanNM Susan M. Bryan
All the markets in Bernalillo NM have their chile roasters outside and ready to go. You all know what that means. #greenchile #foodie

Soon the aroma of raosting green chiles will be wafting across New Mexico. Mmmm.

Off to the bank. (I told you I was becoming practical.)

181 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:46:20pm

re: #161 recusancy

If you can't understand the difference between opposing a stupid war before it starts and having to deal with it once it's already started then, well, I'm not quite sure what to say to help you out.

Yeah, this.

I was loudly, passionately against the Iraq war since I saw through Bush's obvious lies about it, and because fighting two wars at once was a goddamn stupid idea. Once it started, all that loud opposition became pointless. After the invasion, it's just been about trying to fix a country we broke by choice so we can get the hell out of there someday.

2002 Obama vs. 2008 Obama is a case study in the same thing, but on a larger scale.

182 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:46:38pm

re: #178 000G

[Link: www.google.com...]

Compare to: [Link: www.google.com...]

183 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:46:45pm

re: #176 Varek Raith

Fox News’ Megyn Kelly Gets It Right: ‘The United States Is In The Dark Ages When It Comes To Maternity Leave’

She pwnd Mike Gallagher

Silly Megyn doesn't she know that maternity leave was conceived by Karl Marx in a lab in Russia right after he declared Islam the world's only religion? Seriously though, surprising to see her get something right. Would love to see this guy Gallagher if he were in a woman's shoes. I bet he'd flip out.

184 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:47:55pm

re: #173 negativ

The tuba seems to be a more inherently Republican-sounding instrument if you ask me. There might be, somewhere in the world, something as strange as a "tuba virtuoso", but I'm not aware of any.

Also:
Image: tuba_intrique.jpg

I think we're overlooking the obvious choice here.

185 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:48:15pm
186 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:48:32pm

re: #176 Varek Raith

Fox News’ Megyn Kelly Gets It Right: ‘The United States Is In The Dark Ages When It Comes To Maternity Leave’

She pwnd Mike Gallagher

Pff, what a commie feminist pinko!
/

187 laZardo  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:49:03pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

You're welcome. :P

188 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:50:40pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

How To Prank A Neo-Nazi

Awesome, suck it Nazis.

189 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:50:44pm

re: #176 Varek Raith

Fox News’ Megyn Kelly Gets It Right: ‘The United States Is In The Dark Ages When It Comes To Maternity Leave’

RINO! Maternity leave is the tool of the devil! Women shouldn't have time to work. They should be at home pumping out a kid every nine months like the Duggars!

///

190 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:52:20pm

'Eureka' canceled, sixth season plans dropped
Screw you Scyfiwhateverthehellyourecallednow.

191 Henchman Ghazi-808  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:53:12pm

re: #4 Killgore Trout

Of course this was easily predictable and won't slow the Republicans down at all. They're going to ride this nonsense to the bitter end.

Like Major Kong riding the A bomb.

192 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:53:15pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

All the good ones get cancelled. Mostly. I can't believe they made only one year of The Good Guys. One of my favorite shows of all time. So freaking witty.

193 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:53:44pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

'Eureka' canceled, sixth season plans dropped
Screw you Scyfiwhateverthehellyourecallednow.

Maybe they can fill the time slot with another ghost hunter show? Maybe wrestling?

/fucking Scifi channel

194 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:53:55pm

re: #192 Obdicut

All the good ones get cancelled. Mostly. I can't believe they made only one year of The Good Guys. One of my favorite shows of all time. So freaking witty.

BRING BACK FARSCAPE!

195 makeitstop  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:53:58pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

'Eureka' canceled, sixth season plans dropped
Screw you Scyfiwhateverthehellyourecallednow.

That show really started getting silly the last couple of seasons. Too bad, it was real good for a while.

196 HappyWarrior  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:54:33pm

re: #192 Obdicut

All the good ones get cancelled. Mostly. I can't believe they made only one year of The Good Guys. One of my favorite shows of all time. So freaking witty.

I really liked the US version of Life on Mars which only lasted one a season. I usually don't get in to shows that you have to go from episode to episode since I have a low attention span but that was disappointing. Hoping Boardwalk Empire can be another Soprano's for HBO. I love that show.

197 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:55:26pm

re: #193 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Maybe they can fill the time slot with another ghost hunter show? Maybe wrestling?

/fucking Scifi channel

Paranormal Wrestling Tremors!

198 Killgore Trout  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:56:10pm

Dow +322

199 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:57:05pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Dow +322

Wow! coming to their senses.

200 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:58:22pm

re: #194 Varek Raith

BRING BACK FARSCAPE!

Farscape, Firefly, and let the MST3K guys loose on the Scifi orignal movie archives.

And show the reruns of the old classic series like you're supposed to, assholes.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 12:59:39pm

re: #200 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Farscape, Firefly, and let the MST3K guys loose on the Scifi orignal movie archives.

And show the reruns of the old classic series like you're supposed to, assholes.

OK, guys, I read good things about Farscape in wiki. What else would you recommend for torrenting?

202 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:01:10pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

'Eureka' canceled, sixth season plans dropped
Screw you Scyfiwhateverthehellyourecallednow.

Blargh. My boyfriend will not be happy about this.

203 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:03:16pm

re: #201 Sergey Romanov

OK, guys, I read good things about Farscape in wiki. What else would you recommend for torrenting?

The Prisoner (original series)
Hyperdrive
Red Dwarf
MST3k

204 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:05:18pm

re: #203 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thanks!

205 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:06:29pm

re: #201 Sergey Romanov

OK, guys, I read good things about Farscape in wiki. What else would you recommend for torrenting?

Lexx.

206 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:07:13pm

re: #204 Sergey Romanov

Thanks!

Love this shit.
:)

207 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:07:20pm

re: #205 Obdicut

Lexx.

Heh, an old fan here.

208 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:08:35pm

re: #206 Varek Raith

[Video]Love this shit.
:)

THEY TRIED TO KILL HIM WITH A FORKLIFT!

209 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:09:08pm

re: #208 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

THEY TRIED TO KILL HIM WITH A FORKLIFT!

HOT MERGING ACTION!

210 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:10:31pm

re: #207 Sergey Romanov

Heh, an old fan here.

It's so fucking weird, I love it. I love the hot chick who's chock full of evil worm DNA.

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:10:57pm

re: #210 Obdicut

It's so fucking weird, I love it. I love the hot chick who's chock full of evil worm DNA.

OK, your choice: Xev or Zev?

212 Political Atheist  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:12:30pm

re: #190 Varek Raith
Effing SyFy.
Should be Sigh Fy.
That innovative original show was tortured to death. I mean they did everything possible to kill it an inch at a time. I guess they need more time fro wrestling and eye popping movies like Frankenfish and Mansquito.

213 Varek Raith  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:12:47pm
214 Obdicut  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:13:08pm

re: #211 Sergey Romanov

OK, your choice: Xev or Zev?

100% Zev.

215 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:14:28pm

re: #214 Obdicut

100% Zev.

Xev here. Holy War!/

216 b_sharp  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:16:33pm

re: #211 Sergey Romanov

OK, your choice: Xev or Zev?

Yes.

217 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:16:56pm

re: #198 Killgore Trout

Dow +322

S&P is not happy.

//

218 Kragar  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:17:22pm

re: #211 Sergey Romanov

OK, your choice: Xev or Zev?

Zev

219 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:18:13pm

re: #218 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Zev

Yeah, you told me last year.

220 Olsonist  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:19:30pm

re: #171 blueraven

Your family has felt this up close and personal. I am in awe of all those who serve and the sacrifice of them and their families.

I would like to see this ended as well.

My brother was in Afghanistan on a defense contract. He worked there on a sealed base fixing drones. It was a well paid job. In fact, he'd been unemployed as an engineer for more than a year. It was between Afghanistan and unemployment.

Whereas we invaded Afghanistan to find and kill OBL, a task I wholeheartedly supported until Tora Bora, we are staying there now, 10 years later, largely because of defense contracts and to a lesser extent staving off the hit our national pride will take on leaving. If Obama had ended the wars in 2008, the recession would have been worse. That's the problem with war/defense based economies.

I'm reminded of THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF OLIGARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM, the book within a book in Orwell's 1984. Chapter 3, War is Peace:

... War, however, is no longer the desperate, annihilating struggle that it was in the early decades of the twentieth century. It is a warfare of limited aims between combatants who are unable to destroy one another, have no material cause for fighting and are not divided by any genuine ideological difference. This is not to say that either the conduct of war, or the prevailing attitude towards it, has become less bloodthirsty or more chivalrous. On the contrary, war hysteria is continuous and universal in all countries, and such acts as raping, looting, the slaughter of children, the reduction of whole populations to slavery, and reprisals against prisoners which extend even to boiling and burying alive, are looked upon as normal, and, when they are committed by one's own side and not by the enemy, meritorious. But in a physical sense war involves very small numbers of people, mostly highly-trained specialists, and causes comparatively few casualties. The fighting, when there is any, takes place on the vague frontiers whose whereabouts the average man can only guess at, or round the Floating Fortresses which guard strategic spots on the sea lanes. In the centres of civilization war means no more than a continuous shortage of consumption goods, and the occasional crash of a rocket bomb which may cause a few scores of deaths. War has in fact changed its character. More exactly, the reasons for which war is waged have changed in their order of importance. Motives which were already present to some small extent in the great wars of the early twentieth century have now become dominant and are consciously recognized and acted upon.

221 Gus  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 1:20:12pm

Hot. Shower time. Later.

222 Lidane  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 3:29:35pm

More of that Republican personal responsibility at work:

RNC Chair: It's all Obama's fault!

223 JEA62  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 5:01:53pm

Funny little diatribe at Ace of Spades; he acknowledges the poll might be correct. But he takes issue with it because it's a poll of adults.

224 moderatelyradicalliberal  Tue, Aug 9, 2011 5:27:38pm

re: #68 jamesfirecat

If you can admit that Obama is better than the alternative than why do you spite America by refusing to vote for the better Candidate?

WATB manic-progressives are negative and defeatist by nature. That's why nobody likes or listens to them except for other WATB manic-progressives. The fact that they think that they are Obama's base or even the base of the Democratic party is hilarious. If it were up to them Democrats would never win elections.


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