Michele Bachmann Repeatedly Petitioned Government for Stimulus, EPA, Other Funds

The profound cynicism of the Tea Party right
Politics • Views: 39,757

At the bottom of the Republican Party lies a profound cynicism — the type of cynicism that allows someone like Michele Bachmann to build a political career by denouncing the very same government services she eagerly seeks to exploit for herself: Michele Bachmann Repeatedly Sought Stimulus, EPA, Other Government Funds.

A Freedom of Information Act request filed by The Huffington Post with three separate federal agencies reveals that on at least 16 separate occasions, Bachmann petitioned the federal government for direct financial help or aid. A large chunk of those requests were for funds set aside through President Obama’s stimulus program, which Bachmann once labeled “fantasy economics.” Bachmann made two more of those requests to the Environmental Protection Agency, an institution that she has suggested she would eliminate if she were in the White House.

Taken as a whole, the letters underscore what Bachmann’s critics describe as a glaring distance between her campaign oratory and her actual conduct as a lawmaker. Combined with previous revelations that Bachmann personally relied on a federally subsidized home loan while her husband’s business benefited from Medicaid payments, it appears that one of the Tea Party’s most cherished members has demonstrated that the government does, in fact, play a constructive role — at least in her life and district.

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546 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:14:12am

Taken from the pages of Sarah Palin's I'll Rail Against Big Government But Take Taxpayers Money Simultaneously book.

2 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:17:08am

Michelle Bachman's campaign has been over for a long time. She's running to be head of the Tea Party. I wish her luck.

3 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:20:37am

Sexist!

/////

4 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:20:59am

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with the charges of hypocrisy when right-wing politicians lobby for this type of funding. As long as the money is being dished out, it seems fair that they should be able to benefit from it, even if they stand for eliminating it in the long term.

Having said that, it would be great if they were a bit more intellectually honest/open about the fact that they do currently benefit from it. Sadly, though, this message ("we currently benefit from federal funding but would be even better off under a low-tax/private funding model") is not going to fly in the soundbite culture of politics, which is why this state of simultaneous lobbying for and condemnation of government funding prevails.

5 KingKenrod  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:21:57am

Hey, Ron Paul is one of the biggest porkers in Congress. This is SOP for all politicians.

The people of Minnesota pay federal taxes and are on the hook for all the debts the Feds run up. She wouldn't be doing her job if she let that money go elsewhere.

What I'm saying is ... you work with the government you have, not the government you want.

6 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:22:25am

And I get the Bachmann for President ad on the side panel, with her blank eyed stare looking off to the right.

"Michelle, other side! We're over here!"

7 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:23:22am

"Cut, Cap, Balance"!!!!

8 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:23:31am

Hilariously, I'm seeing a Bachmann for President ad while I read this.

Also, the fact that she's a "small government for everyone else except me" conservative doesn't surprise me.

9 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:23:40am

re: #4 iossarian

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with the charges of hypocrisy when right-wing politicians lobby for this type of funding. As long as the money is being dished out, it seems fair that they should be able to benefit from it, even if they stand for eliminating it in the long term.

Having said that, it would be great if they were a bit more intellectually honest/open about the fact that they do currently benefit from it. Sadly, though, this message ("we currently benefit from federal funding but would be even better off under a low-tax/private funding model") is not going to fly in the soundbite culture of politics, which is why this state of simultaneous lobbying for and condemnation of government funding prevails.

Well there in lies my problem, people like Bachmann, Palin, and I see Ron Paul's now been mentioned too act like they're above that. I still feel Palin is the worst when ti comes to levy charges of socialism when she was governor of a state that actually pays people to live there. But she acts like she and her fellow Alaskans are these rugged individualists living independently of Washingotn yet they're as big receipents as the rest of the country if not more. You're right, it would be one thing if they were honest but they're not.

10 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:24:51am

This is all perfectly justifiable in the warped minds of teabaggers. You see, they see any tax that goes toward social programs or a social safety net as government theft and redistribution of wealth. Because they are forced to pay into this corrupt system, they see it as acceptable to use the services provided by their own "stolen" money. At least that's what the baggers say when I bring up Ayn Rand's government teat-sucking.

11 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:27:38am

IOKIYAR...

12 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:28:02am

re: #10 Atlas Fails

This is all perfectly justifiable in the warped minds of teabaggers. You see, they see any tax that goes toward social programs or a social safety net as government theft and redistribution of wealth. Because they are forced to pay into this corrupt system, they see it as acceptable to use the services provided by their own "stolen" money. At least that's what the baggers say when I bring up Ayn Rand's government teat-sucking.

I've seen that argument before. Meh so stupid.

13 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:28:26am

Andrew Breitbart is spewing the same old inane insults at me on Twitter again.

14 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:28:44am

re: #5 KingKenrod

Hey, Ron Paul is one of the biggest porkers in Congress. This is SOP for all politicians.

The people of Minnesota pay federal taxes and are on the hook for all the debts the Feds run up. She wouldn't be doing her job if she let that money go elsewhere.

What I'm saying is ... you work with the government you have, not the government you want.

Still makes her a hypocrite, IMHO.

15 garhighway  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:31:32am

re: #2 Iwouldprefernotto

Michelle Bachman's campaign has been over for a long time. She's running to be head of the Tea Party. I wish her luck.

I would respectfully disagree. I think she is completely serious about this, and think she has a decent shot at the nomination. She's attractive, she's articulate, and she sings a song that the GOP base absolutely loves. Her fellow GOP candidates are going to be very reluctant to wave her batshit crazy stuff at her, because most of that stuff sounds good to the GOP base and most of the candidates have enough of their own crazy shit that they won't want to cast the first stone.

If she can fundraise well enough, she will last deep into the season.

16 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:32:22am

re: #13 Charles

How old is he? Three? My kids do better than that. Epic. Fail.

17 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:33:15am

re: #13 Charles

Andrew Breitbart is spewing the same old inane insults at me on Twitter again.

Turncoat? Traitor? Poopy-head?

18 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:34:40am

re: #13 Charles

Andrew Breitbart is spewing the same old inane insults at me on Twitter again.

Poopy diaper head dum dum!

19 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:34:53am

re: #14 wrenchwench

Still makes her a hypocrite, IMHO.

I agree. I don't think anyone here truly begrudges her for helping out her constituents. After all, it's part of the job but my problem is with her getting herself in to office and others in to office while decrying "big government" yet going around and using that same government to get pork which no doubt is done to help her re-election chances. On the other hand, I wonder what good is it to elect someone to government who hates it anyhow? Sounds counterproductive to me but that's another story.

20 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:36:06am

re: #10 Atlas Fails

This is all perfectly justifiable in the warped minds of teabaggers. You see, they see any tax that goes toward social programs or a social safety net as government theft and redistribution of wealth. Because they are forced to pay into this corrupt system, they see it as acceptable to use the services provided by their own "stolen" money. At least that's what the baggers say when I bring up Ayn Rand's government teat-sucking.

And yet, people who dare to collect unemployment--their own money--are considered scum.

21 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:37:36am

re: #13 Charles

Andrew Breitbart is spewing the same old inane insults at me on Twitter again.

I'm surprised he has the time to tweet, what with all his time between editing misleading videos and being sued for libel, defamation, etc

22 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:37:39am

re: #20 SanFranciscoZionist

And yet, people who dare to collect unemployment--their own money--are considered scum.

And Pell Grants--welfare!

//

23 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:37:39am

Good day all. I am in my second hour with new glasses - progressive lenses. I can't tell whether I like them or not.

24 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:38:17am

re: #12 HappyWarrior

I've seen that argument before. Meh so stupid.

Some of these dumbasses who parrot Limbaugh and Co. about half the country not paying taxes don't pay income taxes themselves. They take his words at face value and are convinced there's an army of welfare queens who pay literally zero taxes on any level.

25 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:38:37am

re: #22 Bulworth

And Pell Grants--welfare!

//

Yeah, how dare kids get college education. Caste system baby!

26 Henchman Ghazi-808  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:38:53am

The Tea Party should hand out free bootstraps at every rally under the meme 'there's your government assistance!'

27 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:39:09am

re: #23 imp_62

Good day all. I am in my second hour with new glasses - progressive lenses. I can't tell whether I like them or not.

I hear Teddy Roosevelt and Woodrow Wilson both wore those as well.
/

28 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:39:11am

re: #23 imp_62

Good day all. I am in my second hour with new glasses - progressive lenses. I can't tell whether I like them or not.

Progressive lenses, commie lenses, whatever.
/

29 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:39:16am

re: #23 imp_62

Good day all. I am in my second hour with new glasses - progressive lenses. I can't tell whether I like them or not.

Those the ones where you look down to read, up to see at a distance?

30 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:39:38am

re: #24 Atlas Fails

Some of these dumbasses who parrot Limbaugh and Co. about half the country not paying taxes don't pay income taxes themselves. They take his words at face value and are convinced there's an army of welfare queens who pay literally zero taxes on any level.

Yep, they also that jackass's opinions on global warming like it's gospel even though Limbaugh has less of a science education then I do and I am a history major, English minor.

31 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:40:03am

re: #28 Cannadian Club Akbar

Progressive lenses, commie lenses, whatever.
/

Thank god you're here. I sent that beach ball over the plate an nobody swung.

32 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:40:31am

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Those the ones where you look down to read, up to see at a distance?

Yup. Taking some getting used to. No headache yet, so that's a good sign

33 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:40:31am

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Those the ones where you look down to read, up to see at a distance?

Bifocals are acceptable since Ben Franklin, famous social conservative and anti-socialist, invented them.
//

34 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:40:41am

re: #31 imp_62

Thank god you're here. I sent that beach ball over the plate an nobody swung.

It was too easy.
Far too easy.
;)

35 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:41:04am

re: #33 oaktree

Bifocals are acceptable since Ben Franklin, famous social conservative and anti-socialist, invented them.
//

And tireless slave liberator, like all the founding fathers.

36 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:41:04am

re: #13 Charles

Andrew Breitbart is spewing the same old inane insults at me on Twitter again.

If you wouldn't provoke him with your ponytail...

On the other hand, if you wanted to provoke him, try a braid. The tweets would fly.

37 darthstar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:42:03am

Michele Bachmann's a hypocrite? Nobody could have predicted a Republican running for president...

38 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:42:13am

re: #35 imp_62

And tireless slave liberator, like all the founding fathers.

Ha to be fair I believe Franklin did found a slavery abolition society. Of course that doesn't take away from Bachmann's moronic contention that the founders were why slavery was abolished.

39 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:42:27am

re: #36 wrenchwench

If you wouldn't provoke him with your ponytail...

On the other hand, if you wanted to provoke him, try a braid. The tweets would fly.

I know people who think LGF is full of libertarians.

40 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:42:56am

and libertines

41 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:43:22am

re: #39 imp_62

I know people who think LGF is full of libertarians.

Huh?

42 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:43:39am

re: #40 ralphieboy

and libertines

Especially libertines

43 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:43:52am

re: #40 ralphieboy

and libertines

and some librarians as well...

44 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:44:37am

re: #39 imp_62

I know people who think LGF is full of libertarians.

We have a few.

45 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:44:59am

re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Huh?

Really. Since we're on average not right wing conservatives, and not moon bats. we must be shoved into the third available pigeon hole: libertarians. Cuz lord knows there is no centre in this country anymore.

46 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:45:08am

re: #43 oaktree

and some librarians as well...

Hot librarians?
/

47 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:45:16am

re: #43 oaktree

and some librarians as well...

Not if the religious right has its way.

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:46:14am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

I agree. I don't think anyone here truly begrudges her for helping out her constituents. After all, it's part of the job but my problem is with her getting herself in to office and others in to office while decrying "big government" yet going around and using that same government to get pork which no doubt is done to help her re-election chances. On the other hand, I wonder what good is it to elect someone to government who hates it anyhow? Sounds counterproductive to me but that's another story.

Of course I don't blame her for helping her constituents through legal means that were designed for her to do so. That's her job.

But there's something cynical and sinister and ugly about pretending that government doesn't help anyone on the one hand, and then capably using its resources on the other to help your constituents

It's like a grown-up version of the college kid who flaunts their working-class cred while driving the new car their parents bought them.

49 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:46:54am

Lizard Librarianre: #46 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hot librarians?
/

50 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:48:00am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

it's being two-faced, plain and simple.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:48:05am

re: #35 imp_62

And tireless slave liberator, like all the founding fathers.

Well, Franklin at least had some abolition creds. So did poor ol' Sam Adams, who actually got given a slave as a wedding present, thereby infinitely complicating his broke, anti-slavery life.

52 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:48:16am

re: #44 wrenchwench

We have a few.

The beauty is we have a bit of everything here. But on average, I don't think we fall into the "libertarian" definition

53 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:48:36am

re: #39 imp_62

I know people who think LGF is full of libertarians.

Who's a librarian?

54 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:48:47am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course I don't blame her for helping her constituents through legal means that were designed for her to do so. That's her job.

But there's something cynical and sinister and ugly about pretending that government doesn't help anyone on the one hand, and then capably using its resources on the other to help your constituents

It's like a grown-up version of the college kid who flaunts their working-class cred while driving the new car their parents bought them.

Yep, pretty much. Less of a problem when the college kid does it because he's just some random poser asshat than when an elected or candidate whose decisions can have real world impact does though heh.

55 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:49:09am

re: #53 Alouette

Who's a librarian?

I Think CC Akhbar dated one, once.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:49:15am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Ha to be fair I believe Franklin did found a slavery abolition society. Of course that doesn't take away from Bachmann's moronic contention that the founders were why slavery was abolished.

Franklin went, in his long life, from trading in slaves in a small way, and owning a few himself, to founding an abolition society. An interesting man, and a man open to new ideas.

57 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:49:16am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, Franklin at least had some abolition creds. So did poor ol' Sam Adams, who actually got given a slave as a wedding present, thereby infinitely complicating his broke, anti-slavery life.

And you are a school teacher? Oh my.

58 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:49:24am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

Ha to be fair I believe Franklin did found a slavery abolition society. Of course that doesn't take away from Bachmann's moronic contention that the founders were why slavery was abolished.

Even the founding founders who were against slavery, allowed it to continue so that North and South could come together in 1 union. Why they didn't come up with a plan to buy out all of the slaveholders and end the practice is something that is a mystery to me. After the invention of the cotton gin (which greatly increased the profitibility of slaves) a decade after the Constititution was signed, abolishing slavery became that much more difficult.

In my mind, the founding fathers F-ed up on that one.

59 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:49:41am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

Of course I don't blame her for helping her constituents through legal means that were designed for her to do so. That's her job.

But there's something cynical and sinister and ugly about pretending that government doesn't help anyone on the one hand, and then capably using its resources on the other to help your constituents

It's like a grown-up version of the college kid who flaunts their working-class cred while driving the new car their parents bought them.

Remember the trust fund kiddies who played homeless years ago, in NYC, IIRC?

60 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:49:44am

re: #52 imp_62

The beauty is we have a bit of everything here. But on average, I don't think we fall into the "libertarian" definition

On average, certainly not.

61 leftynyc  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:50:09am

re: #9 HappyWarrior

Well there in lies my problem, people like Bachmann, Palin, and I see Ron Paul's now been mentioned too act like they're above that. I still feel Palin is the worst when ti comes to levy charges of socialism when she was governor of a state that actually pays people to live there. But she acts like she and her fellow Alaskans are these rugged individualists living independently of Washingotn yet they're as big receipents as the rest of the country if not more. You're right, it would be one thing if they were honest but they're not.

Alaska is the third highest recipient of federal dollars. The only ones who get more are New Mexico and Mississippi. I really can't help but notice that most of the states that receive more than they give are blood red states. Perhaps instead of calling NYers welfare queens, the parasites could just thank us for supporting them.

62 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:50:17am

re: #59 Cannadian Club Akbar

Remember the trust fund kiddies who played homeless years ago, in NYC, IIRC?

Was that the one who wrote "Nickel and Dimed"?

63 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:50:29am

Speaking of Andrew, please enjoy this gem of unintentional hilarity from one of his star columnists, Caroline Glick:

(after whining about the right being blamed for the Norway attacks) My revulsion at this bald attempt to use Breivik’s crime to attack freedom of speech propelled me to write my July 29 column, “Breivik and totalitarian democrats.”

That wooshing you hear is the sound of the irony flying right over her head.

64 leftynyc  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:50:34am

re: #61 leftynyc

Alaska is the third highest recipient of federal dollars. The only ones who get more are New Mexico and Mississippi. I really can't help but notice that most of the states that receive more than they give are blood red states. Perhaps instead of calling NYers welfare queens, the parasites could just thank us for supporting them.


Here's a link for the info:

[Link: www.ritholtz.com...]

65 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:50:42am

re: #58 Surabaya Stew

Even the founding founders who were against slavery, allowed it to continue so that North and South could come together in 1 union. Why they didn't come up with a plan to buy out all of the slaveholders and end the practice is something that is a mystery to me. After the invention of the cotton gin (which greatly increased the profitibility of slaves) a decade after the Constititution was signed, abolishing slavery became that much more difficult.

In my mind, the founding fathers F-ed up on that one.

I agree the founders fucked up on the issue. I have no problem saying that. They did great things but they weren't free of mistakes.

66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:51:12am

re: #62 Alouette

Was that the one who wrote "Nickel and Dimed"?

No idea. Just remember the story.

67 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:51:28am

re: #64 leftynyc

Here's a link for the info:

[Link: www.ritholtz.com...]

I've heard that before too. Funny that huh.

68 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:51:34am

re: #13 Charles

Andrew Breitbart is spewing the same old inane insults at me on Twitter again.

Living well is the best revenge.
Dorothy Parker

69 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:51:54am
70 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:52:37am

re: #56 SanFranciscoZionist

Franklin went, in his long life, from trading in slaves in a small way, and owning a few himself, to founding an abolition society. An interesting man, and a man open to new ideas.

Like all the founders a man of contradictions IMO. Not too many of the Founders are clear cut black and white kind of guys but then again you can say that about most people.

71 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:53:36am

re: #57 Alouette

And you are a school teacher? Oh my.

I'm trying to become an ex-schoolteacher, but I have been known to use 'ain't' in a sentence when students are falling asleep. They all wake up and scream at me then.

72 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:54:19am

re: #70 HappyWarrior

That's one reason I love to read about Thomas Jefferson. What a mess that guy was. Just a brilliant, hot mess (as the kids say.)

73 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:54:19am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Beck calls 912 groups Kids Indoctrination Camps 'Schools'

Yeah, but "indoctrination school" just has such a nicer ring to it than "indoctrination camp," no?

74 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:54:44am

re: #69 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Beck calls 912 groups Kids Indoctrination Camps 'Schools'


Funny, he decries the Norwegian Labor Party's youth camps and calls them Hitler Youth but his own 912 crap is just fine. Cognitive Dissidence much Glenn?

75 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:55:48am

re: #35 imp_62

And tireless slave liberator, like all the founding fathers.

But... I thought slavery was a joint project of slaves and owners, to the benefit of both. Doesn't one of her must-read books explain all that?

///

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:55:58am

re: #59 Cannadian Club Akbar

Remember the trust fund kiddies who played homeless years ago, in NYC, IIRC?

No, but I do recall when a few kids from a nearby synagogue decided to panhandle for a day to find out what being homeless was like. They were well-dress and groomed, laughing, and talking loudly about 'being homeless', which they clearly were not, and I didn't have a clue what they were doing, so I ignored them. They were in the spot that one of our genuine neighborhood panhandlers used, but he left them alone.

They spoke movingly at Shabbat services about how people walked right past them without making eye contact.

77 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:56:08am

re: #72 abbyadams

That's one reason I love to read about Thomas Jefferson. What a mess that guy was. Just a brilliant, hot mess (as the kids say.)

My favorite biography subjects are just that. Someone who you can't pidgeonhole one way or the other.

78 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:56:37am

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

No, but I do recall when a few kids from a nearby synagogue decided to panhandle for a day to find out what being homeless was like. They were well-dress and groomed, laughing, and talking loudly about 'being homeless', which they clearly were not, and I didn't have a clue what they were doing, so I ignored them. They were in the spot that one of our genuine neighborhood panhandlers used, but he left them alone.

They spoke movingly at Shabbat services about how people walked right past them without making eye contact.

Yeah, when people are thinking you're a dork, they do that.

79 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:57:40am

re: #62 Alouette

Was that the one who wrote "Nickel and Dimed"?

No, that's Barbara Ehrenreich. She didn't play homeless, just worked a variety of minimum-wage jobs.

The sequel was supposed to be about white-collar workers, and didn't work as well. Because her fake self couldn't get hired.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:57:42am

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

A couple friends and I considered living under separate bridges for a week and writing about the experience. Never did.

81 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 10:59:14am

re: #75 C1nnabar

But... I thought slavery was a joint project of slaves and owners, to the benefit of both. Doesn't one of her must-read books explain all that?

///

It's been proven that black folk were better off as slaves. More cohesive family units, two parent families, good, stead work...
//

82 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:00:14am

re: #74 HappyWarrior

Funny, he decries the Norwegian Labor Party's youth camps and calls them Hitler Youth but his own 912 crap is just fine. Cognitive Dissidence much Glenn?

IOKIYAARWNJ

83 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:00:59am

re: #23 imp_62

Good day all. I am in my second hour with new glasses - progressive lenses. I can't tell whether I like them or not.

They take a while to get used to, but once you do, I think you will like them. Give it a few days.

84 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:02:43am

re: #83 blueraven

They take a while to get used to, but once you do, I think you will like them. Give it a few days.

I find my head bobbing quite a bit more than usual. You are right, it will take a day or two.

85 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:02:45am

Not that Bachmann's a stranger to the "I've got mine, so frak off!" charge, considering the family farm managed by her father-in-law has received $250k in farm subsidies.

I don't think I've yet found one of those "small government" types that isn't utterly full of shit. Paul Ryan, he of the infamous "Path to Prosperity" Plan, has admitted that his family relied upon his deceased father's social security payments to get him through college. Meanwhile, St. Ron of Paul, the supposed orchestrator of the Tea Party movement, has been honest that he's got no problem with pork, so long as it goes to his constituents.

86 leftynyc  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:03:01am

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that's Barbara Ehrenreich. She didn't play homeless, just worked a variety of minimum-wage jobs.

The sequel was supposed to be about white-collar workers, and didn't work as well. Because her fake self couldn't get hired.

She was on Rachel's show either last night or Monday.

87 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:04:11am

re: #84 imp_62

I find my head bobbing quite a bit more than usual. You are right, it will take a day or two.

That's because you're drunk. Just sayin'.
/

88 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:04:46am

re: #87 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's because you're drunk. Just sayin'.
/

Either that or watching girls on trampolines.

89 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:04:56am

re: #79 SanFranciscoZionist

No, that's Barbara Ehrenreich. She didn't play homeless, just worked a variety of minimum-wage jobs.

The sequel was supposed to be about white-collar workers, and didn't work as well. Because her fake self couldn't get hired.

Yeah because, don't you like have to have a resume, and experience, and references, and education, and skills 'n' shit?

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:07:01am

re: #88 iossarian

Either that or watching girls on trampolines.

Or he's trying to score some apples.

91 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:07:43am

re: #87 Cannadian Club Akbar

That's because you're drunk. Just sayin'.
/

Not quite... But I do wonder whether drinking will balance the bobble. Then, is it deductible as a medical expense?

92 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:08:24am

re: #81 imp_62

It's been proven that black folk were better off as slaves. More cohesive family units, two parent families, good, stead work...
//

More cohesive family units (if you don't count the getting sold into different states stuff), two parent families (except that many states did not legalize slave marriages, and often Dad was miles away from the rest of the family), good steady work (I suppose that not being allowed to stop is steady).

I did notice while I was out at Mount Vernon that they described the slaves as having a diet of either salted fish or fish they caught and types of grains (eaten as cereal or bread I think) and produce from their gardens. I suppose that when you contrast that to General Washington's diet of red meat and lots of butter, they were the luckier ones. I doubt they saw it that way.

93 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:09:05am

re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar

Or he's trying to score some apples.

My next excuse: I wasn't checking out the chick on the trampoline, I was trying to get us some apples!

94 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:09:40am

re: #93 iossarian

My next excuse: I wasn't checking out the chick on the trampoline, I was trying to get us some apples!

Where is this magical land of chicks on trampolines CCA and you seem to inhabit???

95 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:10:21am

re: #91 imp_62

Not quite... But I do wonder whether drinking will balance the bobble. Then, is it deductible as a medical expense?

Make sure you use the generic equivalent.
Image: generic.jpg

96 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:10:27am

re: #94 imp_62

Where is this magical land of chicks on trampolines CCA and you seem to inhabit???

It exists entirely in my head. So much more convenient that way - no need to go outside or anything.

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:11:01am

re: #10 Atlas Fails

This is all perfectly justifiable in the warped minds of teabaggers. You see, they see any tax that goes toward social programs or a social safety net as government theft and redistribution of wealth. Because they are forced to pay into this corrupt system, they see it as acceptable to use the services provided by their own "stolen" money. At least that's what the baggers say when I bring up Ayn Rand's government teat-sucking.

They are national socialists.

That's not a godwin reference. They think of themselves and only themselves as the Americans, and the "nation" (and of course, the only people on earth who ever pay any taxes.) Revolving doors between government dollars and the grifters who exploit them do not bother them in the least.

Someone different from them, older, disabled, wrong color, wrong accent/last name/eye shape/etc. in any way getting $200/mo, well they ought to be grateful, not unlike the slaves. Hey, they got to keep those expensive ankle bracelets, what's the problem!

98 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:11:06am

blink-182 had a concert in Pittsburgh and I missed it? NOOOOOO!!!

99 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:11:20am

re: #95 Cannadian Club Akbar

Make sure you use the generic equivalent.
Image: generic.jpg

That's upscale.

Image: sprit_brasso.jpg

100 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:11:27am

re: #81 imp_62

It's been proven that black folk were better off as slaves. More cohesive family units, two parent families, good, stead work...
//

Getting the love of Jesus whipped into them on a regular basis...
///

101 3CPO  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:11:31am

re: #88 iossarian

Either that or watching girls on trampolines.

Bad memories... bad, bad memories. Let's just say it involved a bikini, a trampoline, and a family reunion.

102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:12:08am

Another socon grifter, who is also a hypocrite. Imagine my surprise.

103 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:12:19am

re: #101 3CPO

Bad memories... bad, bad memories. Let's just say it involved a bikini, a trampoline, and a family reunion.

I'll look forward to the pics.:)

104 shutdown  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:12:40am

re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll look forward to the pics.:)

Probably already on the internet...

105 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:12:55am

Reposted from the dead thread for relevance:

a project being backed by both Al Franken and Michelle Bachmann is getting panned. They want to get an exemption to the federal Wild and Scenic Act so that they can build a $700 million bridge between MN and WI. Problem is that they (and a few other bipartisan members of the WI and MN delegations) are the only ones who seem to think that it isn't a boondoggle. There are less costly options that aren't being considered, and by tying up so much money on this one project, thousands of other bridges in both states can't get needed attention.

The NYT points this out as a bit of hypocrisy on porkbarrel spending from Bachmann, but it's really an issue confronting all politicians when it comes to infrastructure spending.

This $700 million project would go to replace a bridge that is overcapacity and serves 18,000+ commuters daily.

There's lots of other projects that could benefit from that money in either of the states - hundreds of other bridges could be brought up to standard with that money, or this particular bridge could be replaced with an option that costs about half as much as this, and wouldn't require the kind of changes required to make this particular proposal happen.

106 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:13:02am

re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll look forward to the pics.:)

107 3CPO  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:13:45am

re: #85 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I don't think I've yet found one of those "small government" types that isn't utterly full of shit. Paul Ryan, he of the infamous "Path to Prosperity" Plan, has admitted that his family relied upon his deceased father's social security payments to get him through college. Meanwhile, St. Ron of Paul, the supposed orchestrator of the Tea Party movement, has been honest that he's got no problem with pork, so long as it goes to his constituents.

I don't know if he's "small government," but Buddy Roemer seems to be less hypocritical than the other contenders. (I admit I don't know anything more about him than what I saw during his interview with Stephen Colbert.)

108 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:13:46am

re: #98 Atlas Fails

Such a small thing that. /

109 3CPO  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:16:05am

re: #103 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll look forward to the pics.:)

Not at this family reunion. I don't think any of the hog farmers, corn farmers, or cattle truck drivers at this shindig owned anything as fancy as a camera, thank god. We did smoke some Swisher Sweets in the evening, though. It was a special occasion.

110 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:16:22am

re: #108 lawhawk

They may be cheesy, juvenile, and not all that talented, but their music brings back great memories of junior high for me!

111 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:18:22am

re: #77 HappyWarrior

American Sphinx is a great Jefferson Bio.

112 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:18:58am

re: #78 EmmmieG

Yeah, when people are thinking you're a dork, they do that.

To their credit, I think they really didn't understand what was wrong with their experiment. They meant really really well. I just think they should have been steered into helping in the kitchen at Project Open Hand or something.

113 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:20:48am

re: #111 abbyadams

American Sphinx is a great Jefferson Bio.


Yeah I've heard. Knew I should have gotten that while I was in Charlottesville. Ended up getting H.W Brands' Traitor To His Class in town instead which was a great read on FDR. Read one on Wilson written by a University of Wisconsin history professor that was pretty solid since I had more questions about Wilson and how I should feel about him overall than I had before. I mean obviously I hate the racism but I like the relative commitment to the sovereignty of nations that he made at Versailes too so go figure.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:21:07am

re: #89 Alouette

Yeah because, don't you like have to have a resume, and experience, and references, and education, and skills 'n' shit?

She had most of that faked up, but it's almost impossible to get a middle-management job cold. It was a rather boring book, as a result.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:21:40am

re: #94 imp_62

Where is this magical land of chicks on trampolines CCA and you seem to inhabit???

The Man Show ended with 'Girls on Trampolines'. Every time. It was their way of getting people to watch the credits.

116 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:22:49am

Jeremy Warner @ The Telegraph: Thanks to drift towards fiscal union, Britain is now more creditworthy than Germany

My take: It's not the drift towards the fiscal union, it's that the markets assume a future fiscal union would continue the irresponsible policies (the whole tier two category of assets is crap and needs to be abolished, deflation be damned) under the current decentralized ECB/NCB/ESCB system.

The EU sometimes reminds me eerily of the United States before their Constitution.

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard: euro is 'unsaveable'

Don't agree, but he's right at hinting that the differences in real rates of interest in different regions is a problem that's not been solved in the Eurozone; quite the contrary, the Euro has made it worse.

117 RIRedinPA  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:27:02am

Honestly now, you didn't actually expect her to understand what legislation she was told to rail against, do you?

118 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:29:26am

re: #117 RIRedinPA

Honestly now, you didn't actually expect her to understand what legislation she was told to rail against, do you?

I think she understands it just fine.

119 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:30:01am

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

The Man Show ended with 'Girls on Trampolines'. Every time. It was their way of getting people to watch the credits.

What credits?

120 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:30:58am
121 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:32:46am

re: #120 000G

Pointing out the obvious: An awful lot of things are trending upwards that could be used/abused as melee weapons.

122 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:32:58am

re: #120 000G

Movers and Shakers in Sports & Leisure on Amazon UK

The Rucanor has dropped in the ratings.

123 Jack Burton  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:36:41am

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Rucanor has dropped in the ratings.

I'd take the shovel over that any day.

124 Charleston Chew  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:37:46am

So basically, Bachmann is Captain Louis Renault in Casablanca:

125 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:39:34am

re: #124 Charleston Chew

So basically, Bachmann is Captain Louis Renault in Casablanca:

[Video]

Not by a long shot. Capt. Renault had a lot more class and some principles. Not to mention Claude Rains rules. How many people can steal scenes from Bogart that easily?

126 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:41:53am

This is a BS argument against Bachmann. It is the same argument used against wealthy liberal politicians that want to raise taxes but at the same time avoid paying as much personal income tax as possible under legal loopholes. They used to trot out Teddy Kennedy's tax returns once in a while to show this.

127 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:42:59am

Sheesh, the media is frustrating me today. MSNBC incessantly, "Even some Democrats are now talking about the President's lack of leadership [with respect to somehow passing new measures to repair the economy and the settle the volatile stock market]," and, "It would be a huge political mistake for the President to take his scheduled week and a half vacation family vacation."

There's a number of things wrong with the sentiments. First, if he did the thing they seem to want him to do, demand Congress back in session, it would be exactly the sort of impulsive / rash action that would likely freak out the markets even more, especially when all the partisan bomb throwers are back in front of the cameras, pissed-off at having their month-and-a-half vacation cut short. Second, it bizarrely takes all responsibility for legislative action off the back of the actual legislators who are busy golfing & sipping margaritas and instead somehow shifts the entire burden to the executive, who actually has no legislative power. In the same vein, they're also punishing the one person who's still in Washington working (well yesterday he spent the day at Dover, honoring the returning fallen SEALs & comforting their families), while once again removing all pressure from Congress.

128 Charleston Chew  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:43:29am

re: #126 Big Steve

This is a BS argument against Bachmann. It is the same argument used against wealthy liberal politicians that want to raise taxes but at the same time avoid paying as much personal income tax as possible under legal loopholes. They used to trot out Teddy Kennedy's tax returns once in a while to show this.

How does that make it bs?

129 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:43:44am

re: #123 ArchangelMichael

I'd take the shovel over that any day.

Got to stick with the classics

Silverline PC64 915mm Wrecking Bar

130 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:44:39am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to stick with the classics

Silverline PC64 915mm Wrecking Bar

I never knew you were Union.
/

131 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:45:10am

Republican tax hardliners on US debt super panelFor the first time ever I'm pessimistic about our future as a country. Nothing is going to be done about the debt.

132 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:45:52am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to stick with the classics

Silverline PC64 915mm Wrecking Bar

Perfect for prying open a locked shopfront.

133 Jack Burton  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:47:05am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to stick with the classics

Silverline PC64 915mm Wrecking Bar

Rated 5-star by Dr. G. Freeman I assume. Are there headcrab zombies in London now too?

134 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:47:31am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Republican tax hardliners on US debt super panelFor the first time ever I'm pessimistic about our future as a country. Nothing is going to be done about the debt.

So predictable. Pick a range of views across the Republican party? No fucking chance.

Have the Dems picked yet? I bet it's a bunch of blue dogs and one token lefty.

135 Charleston Chew  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:48:08am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got to stick with the classics

Silverline PC64 915mm Wrecking Bar

So when it comes to thuggery, you're a traditionalist.

I don't think I have enough back hair to own one of those. Also, my name's not Ox.

136 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:49:08am

re: #134 iossarian

Reid chose Baucus, Kerry and Murray

137 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:50:07am

re: #134 iossarian

Yes, Reid picked the Senate members yesterday:
Baucus, Kerry, Murray.

138 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:50:08am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Republican tax hardliners on US debt super panelFor the first time ever I'm pessimistic about our future as a country. Nothing is going to be done about the debt.

it just simply cannot be payed down with any effect until more, many more people get back to work...as for sweeping tax reform, it's almost a fantasy, just like a comprehensive energy program....those two issues seem to be way beyond what congress can accomplish....dysfunction junction

139 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:50:58am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Republican tax hardliners on US debt super panelFor the first time ever I'm pessimistic about our future as a country. Nothing is going to be done about the debt.

When's the deadline for the panel's recommendation? You can already start building up shorting positions with your broker for that day.

140 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:50:59am

re: #136 Dreggas

Reid chose Baucus, Kerry and Murray

A little more on that.
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

141 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:51:08am

re: #128 Charleston Chew

How does that make it bs?

So lets say you agree.....today.....that to get out of the debt crisis, we need to cut some spending AND raise taxes (something I agree with)....does that mean that you are being hypocritical if you don't send in an extra grand over what you have to pay when you file your return?

142 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:51:56am

re: #138 albusteve

it just simply cannot be payed down with any effect until more, many more people get back to work...as for sweeping tax reform, it's almost a fantasy, just like a comprehensive energy program...those two issues seem to be way beyond what congress can accomplish...dysfunction junction

Do both at once. Take all the unemployed people and hook them up as biological batteries! It worked for the machines running the Matrix!

143 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:52:14am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Republican tax hardliners on US debt super panelFor the first time ever I'm pessimistic about our future as a country. Nothing is going to be done about the debt.

Heh, the Reuters article includes quotes from three people: Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Speaker of the House John Boehner & a former Bush admin OMB director.

144 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:53:20am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Republican tax hardliners on US debt super panelFor the first time ever I'm pessimistic about our future as a country. Nothing is going to be done about the debt.

Wasn't Pat Toomey a chairman of the Club for Growth or am I thinking of another group that thinks any tax increase is the debil.

145 iossarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:53:34am

re: #137 lawhawk

Yes, Reid picked the Senate members yesterday:
Baucus, Kerry, Murray.

So: the Democrats will start from a position of balanced cuts and revenue increases.

The Republicans will absolutely rule out any possibility of revenue increase.

???

Downgrade.

146 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:53:48am

re: #134 iossarian

So predictable. Pick a range of views across the Republican party? No fucking chance.

Have the Dems picked yet? I bet it's a bunch of blue dogs and one token lefty.

Probably.

147 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:53:49am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Also, this should not be surprising, the republicans have made clear they are working for the super rich and will fuck everyone else over to keep them protected.

148 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:54:17am

re: #142 oaktree

Do both at once. Take all the unemployed people and hook them up as biological batteries! It worked for the machines running the Matrix!

like that hilarious old ESPN commercial....light and power go off at the offices, they all go down into the basement, open a closet door and there is Lance Armstrong, sitting on a bike sipping water....they grumble, he apologizes and gets back to peddling

149 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:55:03am

Heh.

150 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:55:14am

re: #127 simoom

Sheesh, the media is frustrating me today. MSNBC incessantly, "Even some Democrats are now talking about the President's lack of leadership [with respect to somehow passing new measures to repair the economy and the settle the volatile stock market]," and, "It would be a huge political mistake for the President to take his scheduled week and a half vacation family vacation."

There's a number of things wrong with the sentiments. First, if he did the thing they seem to want him to do, demand Congress back in session, it would be exactly the sort of impulsive / rash action that would likely freak out the markets even more, especially when all the partisan bomb throwers are back in front of the cameras, pissed-off at having their month-and-a-half vacation cut short. Second, it bizarrely takes all responsibility for legislative action off the back of the actual legislators who are busy golfing & sipping margaritas and instead somehow shifts the entire burden to the executive, who actually has no legislative power. In the same vein, they're also punishing the one person who's still in Washington working (well yesterday he spent the day at Dover, honoring the returning fallen SEALs & comforting their families), while once again removing all pressure from Congress.

PHOTO OP!!

151 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:55:25am

re: #138 albusteve

..as for sweeping tax reform, it's almost a fantasy, just like a comprehensive energy program...those two issues seem to be way beyond what congress can accomplish...

It was always unlikely, but not a total fantasy as all that was required was for either McConnell or Boehner to allow a single non-hardliner onto the committee (for example even someone like Sen. Coburn).

152 Charleston Chew  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:57:46am

re: #141 Big Steve

So lets say you agree...today...that to get out of the debt crisis, we need to cut some spending AND raise taxes (something I agree with)...does that mean that you are being hypocritical if you don't send in an extra grand over what you have to pay when you file your return?

Short answer: yes, it does make you a hypocrite.

I assume that Bachmann has professed opposition to "big government" all along, which would make her a hypocrite for taking the money.

153 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:58:28am

re: #151 simoom

It was always unlikely, but not a total fantasy as all that was required was for either McConnell or Boehner to allow a single non-hardliner onto the committee (for example even someone like Sen. Coburn).

this tax and energy problem is decades old....hardly a partisan problem all these years

154 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 11:59:39am

The backdrop on the debt panel is simple. If they can't agree about a plan of action to present to Congress for an up/down vote, there are automatic programmed cuts that will hit across a wide range of discretionary spending, plus DoD and to Medicaid provider that total $1.2 trillion over 10 years.

155 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:00:24pm

re: #150 blueraven

PHOTO OP!!

Actually, the media had exactly the opposite criticism this time:

[Link: www.google.com...]

The media were not allowed to cover the somber ceremony at Dover Air Force Base on Tuesday when the remains of 38 U.S. and Afghan troops killed in a weekend helicopter crash arrived and were honored by President Barack Obama, despite appeals from news organizations.

...

The Associated Press and some other news organizations protested that original decision, seeking clarification that the service members' families had been consulted in line with the military's policy, and also seeking access to the ceremony without showing the remains in transfer cases.

---

Initially, Pentagon officials said they had unilaterally prohibited media coverage in this case, because the badly damaged remains were mingled, making it impossible to individually identify each of the war dead at this point.

They later said that families were asked whether they would approve media coverage and some consented. But Pentagon officials argued that none of the families could give their individual permission for media coverage because the exact contents of each casket were unclear. In the end, 19 of the 30 U.S. families objected to media coverage, the Pentagon said.

156 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:02:30pm

re: #152 Charleston Chew

Short answer: yes, it does make you a hypocrite.

I assume that Bachmann has professed opposition to "big government" all along, which would make her a hypocrite for taking the money.

So let me see....if one takes a position in a political debate, your whole entire life's work must be totally consistent with the position for your argument to be valid?

157 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:05:08pm

re: #154 lawhawk

there are automatic programmed cuts that will hit across a wide range of discretionary spending, plus DoD and to Medicaid provider that total $1.2 trillion over 10 years.

I'd actually be pretty shocked if in that outcome, both sides didn't immediately pass something that mostly undid both cuts, as both industries have extremely powerful lobbies who are quite agitated at the moment.

158 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:05:46pm

re: #156 Big Steve


No, but we do expect a degree of intellectual and political honesty and consistency.

159 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:06:09pm

bbiab

160 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:06:57pm

"Who, me?"
-Michelle Bachmann

161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:08:53pm

re: #149 lawhawk

Heh.

Someone'll steal the Olympic torch...burn down the freaking stadium.

162 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:09:14pm

re: #141 Big Steve

So lets say you agree...today...that to get out of the debt crisis, we need to cut some spending AND raise taxes (something I agree with)...does that mean that you are being hypocritical if you don't send in an extra grand over what you have to pay when you file your return?

That is a ridiculous argument. People will pay what the tax code allows.
Why would they pay more when millionaires are using the loopholes to pay very little. Do you not get the concept of shared sacrifice?

163 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:10:16pm

New GOP Strategy Involves Reelecting Obama, Making His Life Even More Miserable

According to GOP sources, the decision to cede the 2012 election to Obama came after rank-and-file Republicans agreed that grinding the president down to nothing and pushing him to the brink of insanity was far more in line with the Republican Party's core principles than actually controlling the White House, making laws, or governing the country.

164 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:12:34pm

re: #157 simoom

But that's the problem with all these talks of cuts to programs years down the road. In a 10 year plan - everyone is gaming the CBO and other scorers to maximize savings and backload the major cuts, and limit the cuts (or reductions in increases as is much more typical). How do you achieve cuts is a game that politicians play. Say you have a program that costs $100 million a year in 2011. It's expected to go up to $105 million in 2012. Cut $2.5 million and you can claim you've cut, even as the program cost increases $2.5 million. Did you actually save anything with the cut?

Multiply that by the thousands of programs in the federal budget, and you see the problem emerge. You might be slowing the growth of the government and claiming to have cut programs, but the size of the budget keeps growing. It's just not growing nearly as fast as before.

That's at odds with the hardliners on the GOP who want to see that $100 million project slashed to $90 million - a real reduction that would be either $10 million if you consider the baseline $100 or $15 million if you look at what the program would have been had the increase gone ahead as noted.

165 darthstar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:16:47pm

Truck Nutz! Truck Nutz!


If you haven't seen this clip from last night's Conan, you really do have to watch it...they cut it off a bit early, but it had me in stitches.

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:18:18pm

This ad shows up:

[Link: googleads.g.doubleclick.net...]

Hey, it's the Skype girl. What's she done? /

167 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:19:20pm

GOP leaps into action fixing the economy (just kidding)
Homeland Security Chairman Seeks Probe into Administration-Sanctioned Bin Laden Movie (fox news top story)

168 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:19:46pm

re: #162 blueraven

That is a ridiculous argument. People will pay what the tax code allows.
Why would they pay more when millionaires are using the loopholes to pay very little. Do you not get the concept of shared sacrifice?

My inclusive income in 2010 was $249,000. I paid $74,343 in federal income taxes. I get the "concept." Trying a rational argument and not name calling.

169 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:22:24pm

re: #168 Big Steve

That's a lot of money to pay in taxes. Once I told a guy that I paid 16,000.00 dollars one year; He almost patted me on the head. He thought I was so damn precious.

170 darthstar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:23:23pm

You can't spell "porn" without Ron Paul.
[Link: twitter.com...]

171 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:26:04pm

re: #4 iossarian

To be honest, I'm not sure I agree with the charges of hypocrisy when right-wing politicians lobby for this type of funding. As long as the money is being dished out, it seems fair that they should be able to benefit from it, even if they stand for eliminating it in the long term.

Having said that, it would be great if they were a bit more intellectually honest/open about the fact that they do currently benefit from it. Sadly, though, this message ("we currently benefit from federal funding but would be even better off under a low-tax/private funding model") is not going to fly in the soundbite culture of politics, which is why this state of simultaneous lobbying for and condemnation of government funding prevails.

Bolded and Quoted for Truth.

172 allegro  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:26:11pm

re: #156 Big Steve

So let me see...if one takes a position in a political debate, your whole entire life's work must be totally consistent with the position for your argument to be valid?

Yes, unless an epiphany happens at some point to change your mind and you explain your change of heart. For example, using the Bachmann family acceptance of farming subsidies. If they think this is an evil government socialist program that they want to see abolished then they are indeed hypocritical for seeking out these payments themselves. Instead, they should happily follow their free-market beliefs.

Likewise if someone rails against unemployment benefits being extended since it just promotes laziness at tax-payer expense, I would expect that someone to not apply for that extension of benefits in accordance with his beliefs. Otherwise an accusation of hypocrisy fits.

173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:28:16pm

re: #172 allegro

If someone thinks taxes aren't high enough, but use a tax accountant?

174 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:29:40pm

re: #155 simoom

Actually, the media had exactly the opposite criticism this time:

[Link: www.google.com...]

---

Maybe the media didnt play it that way. And sensible people understand it for what it is. But certainly there are right wing nut jobs that do consider this as "show".

Witness these comments:

joefortruth 16 hours ago
Honestly it's a dishonor for him to honor our troops! It's all for show!

milmom1955 18 hours ago
He is a jer k for wanting to be present with photographers at a time that should be private time for the families!!!!! He has no right there! IF he had kept covert ops..COVERT...maybe these young men would not have died. Yes...that's what I said!! But he had to have his pic and name, vainly plastered all over the news, with as many details, for as long as he could milk it. Now we have dead heros! Thanks Mr. President!

bdelta 22 hours ago
We all know that Obama does not sincerely care for the US Military - he's shown it in the past. Shame, Shame on him for using this event for his own gain. The Good Lord sees all and Obama's day will come - just not soon enough for me. He's true to his form by attending these events now in an election period. Where was he on Veterans Day his first year, and Memorial day?? I for one have not forgotten that he didn't show - sent Biden the first time. Did BO go off to play golf or something? He couldn't begin to measure up to one of our soldiers!!!!!

Read more: [Link: politics.blogs.foxnews.com...]


and just for good measure, this:

balloonpilot 20 hours ago
With tears in my eyes, I welcome each of you home and wish you Godspeed. Thank you all for what you did for me, all of us.
I am so sorry you were greeted at Dover by a gawdam [bigoted word]. You deserve better


Read more: [Link: politics.blogs.foxnews.com...]

175 allegro  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:30:07pm

re: #173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If someone thinks taxes aren't high enough, but use a tax accountant?

It provides a job. Good thing. ;) But seriously, no I don't see that as hypocrisy since taxes are so freaking complicated that paying someone else to do them is sensible.

176 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:30:24pm

re: #124 Charleston Chew

So basically, Bachmann is Captain Louis Renault in Casablanca:

[Video]

No. Renault has been beaten down by the German victories over France (the movie takes place before the twin German disasters of Stalingrad and El Alamain). He is corrupt and self-interested in part because he cannot see the point of holding on to French ideals. A key point Renault's shooting the German major is his recovery of his will to fight for what he believes in. The end of the movie sees both Capt. Renault and Rick at least partially redeemed and rejoining the fight.

177 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:31:10pm

re: #173 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If someone thinks taxes aren't high enough, but use a tax accountant?

Depends.
If they use the accountant to make sure they didn't make mistakes on their returns, then no.
If they use the accountant to find as many deductibles and loopholes possible, then yes.
My 0.02 ducats.

178 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:31:27pm

re: #125 oaktree

Not by a long shot. Capt. Renault had a lot more class and some principles. Not to mention Claude Rains rules. How many people can steal scenes from Bogart that easily?

Renault is trying to survive a turbulent and disastrous time, and he never pretends to be a saint, or criticizes others for doing what they need to.

He's a better man than Bachmann, far as I'm cocerned.

I mean, he's an SOB, but a fairly decent one deep down.

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:33:06pm

re: #177 Varek Raith

I was thinking for reasons of the latter, not the former.

I know I bring that up frequently. But, to me, if someone want's taxes raised, I was always taught that change starts at home.

180 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:33:23pm

re: #174 blueraven

Did "balloon pilot" use the n-word? It got bleeped in posting.

181 Schadenfreude 'r' Us  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:36:55pm

re: #156 Big Steve

So let me see...if one takes a position in a political debate, your whole entire life's work must be totally consistent with the position for your argument to be valid?

If a murderer says that murder is wrong, that doesn't mean the argument is invalid.

The problem with answering "yes" is that you're yielding the field to the people without principles. (I say that if you always live up to your own ideals, you need to start wearing the halo or get some tougher principles.)

182 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:36:58pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

GOP leaps into action fixing the economy (just kidding)
Homeland Security Chairman Seeks Probe into Administration-Sanctioned Bin Laden Movie (fox news top story)

I like how Fox subtly makes the long-running practice of Pentagon / DoD / CIA / FBI sanctioning & advising & often even helping by providing access to locations, for film productions that touch on their domains, into something novel by declaring in their title: "Administration-Sanctioned." Technically true since they both are considered within the Administration, but it cleverly makes it sound political & nefarious when presented that way.

183 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:36:59pm

re: #126 Big Steve

This is a BS argument against Bachmann. It is the same argument used against wealthy liberal politicians that want to raise taxes but at the same time avoid paying as much personal income tax as possible under legal loopholes. They used to trot out Teddy Kennedy's tax returns once in a while to show this.

Kind of sort of. I acknowledge that we're mainly just bashing Bachmann here, but Teddy Kennedy said he and other wealthy people could afford to pay more, which is true. Bachmann said that these programs did not help people, which appears to be false.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:37:56pm

re: #141 Big Steve

So lets say you agree...today...that to get out of the debt crisis, we need to cut some spending AND raise taxes (something I agree with)...does that mean that you are being hypocritical if you don't send in an extra grand over what you have to pay when you file your return?

No. Taxation is systematic.

185 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:39:35pm

would be even better off under a low-tax/private funding model

this would leave one at the mercy of the charity and goodwill of people who generally have neither

listen, the declaration of independence says this:

that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

the founding fathers recognized that government is a useful tool for a nation to use to work together to secure a better life, so i would hesitate before deprecating its usefulness

186 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:50:20pm

re: #185 engineer dog

In the main, I agree with the low tax/private funding model. I don't like the idea of taking from one person in order to "secure a better life" for someone else. Government is best confined to a few functions that cannot be done privately.

Now, where I part ways with Congresswoman Bachmann is matters like the EPA. I have often had problems with how the EPA does things, but unlike her I do think its existence and overall mandate legitimate. Environmental protection is one of those functions that simply can't be done privately. Hence government must take an active role.

188 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:51:26pm

re: #154 lawhawk

The backdrop on the debt panel is simple. If they can't agree about a plan of action to present to Congress for an up/down vote, there are automatic programmed cuts that will hit across a wide range of discretionary spending, plus DoD and to Medicaid provider that total $1.2 trillion over 10 years.

Actually, it's either agreeing to cuts or passing the BBA out of Congress and on to the states for ratification. If the GOP succeeds in loading up the super committee's proposal with nothing but cuts, the DNC leadership may decide to bite the bullet and vote to pass the BBA, gambling on it failing to reach the 47 states necessary to go into effect.

189 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:55:46pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Michele Bachmann is worried about the Renaissance

Hunh. That's odd. 'Cause most of us worry about the Spanish Inquisition. You never know when to expect the Spanish Inquisition.

190 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:57:18pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Michele Bachmann is worried about the Renaissance

Oh, dear. Some shit you can't make up.

191 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:57:28pm

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

In the main, I agree with the low tax/private funding model. I don't like the idea of taking from one person in order to "secure a better life" for someone else. Government is best confined to a few functions that cannot be done privately.

Now, where I part ways with Congresswoman Bachmann is matters like the EPA. I have often had problems with how the EPA does things, but unlike her I do think its existence and overall mandate legitimate. Environmental protection is one of those functions that simply can't be done privately. Hence government must take an active role.

I don't like the idea of taking from one person in order to "secure a better life" for someone else

we all contribute to make a better life for all of us

in the old days, the entire village would get together to raise a barn or a house for the newcomer, or to help with bringing in the harvest, with no compensation other than a couple of shots of homemade whiskey, because they understood that humans live together in communities where they all help each other

these days the point of view is put forward that americans are all competing with each other in a zero-sum game where other people's problems don't affect them

this is a cold and lonely universe that i refuse to live in

192 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 12:58:33pm

re: #168 Big Steve

My inclusive income in 2010 was $249,000. I paid $74,343 in federal income taxes. I get the "concept." Trying a rational argument and not name calling.

I didnt call anybody names. I said the argument for voluntarily paying more than one has to under law is ridiculous. People will not do that and are not hypocrites if they advocate for more tax revenue.

I dont know what you mean by inclusive income. On tax forms we see adjustable income, (income adjusted after any gains and/or losses) taxable income (amount of income to be taxed after exemptions)...what is inclusive income?

193 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:00:09pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Michele Bachmann is worried about the Renaissance

Which is weird, because the Christianity she practices is a child of the Reformation, which grew out of the Renaissance.

You can't have one without the other.

194 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:00:25pm

re: #187 Killgore Trout

Michele Bachmann is worried about the Renaissance

/blank glassy eyed stare

195 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:01:18pm

re: #194 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

/blank glassy eyed stare

so, you're saying no change from your usual state!!

//

196 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:01:39pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Which is weird, because the Christianity she practices is a child of the Reformation, which grew out of the Renaissance.

You can't have one without the other.

THE BIBLE IS THE IMMUTABLE WORD OF GOD, PASSED DOWN TO BABY JESUS AND HASN'T CHANGED IN ALL 6000 YEARS THAT THE UNIVERSE HAS EXISTED!

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:02:21pm

re: #193 SanFranciscoZionist

Which is weird, because the Christianity she practices is a child of the Reformation, which grew out of the Renaissance.

You can't have one without the other.

I was kind of thinking this is odd thinking for a non-Catholic. The world of her ancestors before the Renaissance was very Catholic.

It also involved a large amount of spoiled food, disease, and, well, crap. Hygiene is a modern idea.

198 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:02:38pm

re: #191 engineer dog

I don't like the idea of taking from one person in order to "secure a better life" for someone else

we all contribute to make a better life for all of us

in the old days, the entire village would get together to raise a barn or a house for the newcomer, or to help with bringing in the harvest, with no compensation other than a couple of shots of homemade whiskey, because they understood that humans live together in communities where they all help each other

these days the point of view is put forward that americans are all competing with each other in a zero-sum game where other people's problems don't affect them

this is a cold and lonely universe that i refuse to live in

Replying to the bolded portion: Yes, but they were not mandated to come by government decree. Voluntary associations I have no problem with. What I don't like is the government deciding to tax Rich Bob in order to pay to have Poor Tom's barn raised.

199 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:03:32pm

re: #191 engineer dog

I don't like the idea of taking from one person in order to "secure a better life" for someone else

we all contribute to make a better life for all of us

in the old days, the entire village would get together to raise a barn or a house for the newcomer, or to help with bringing in the harvest, with no compensation other than a couple of shots of homemade whiskey, because they understood that humans live together in communities where they all help each other

these days the point of view is put forward that americans are all competing with each other in a zero-sum game where other people's problems don't affect them

this is a cold and lonely universe that i refuse to live in

Basically. I cannot have a good life, and also cannot be a good person, if my society is structured so that I prosper and my neighbor starves according to fortune's wheel. So we create societies with safety nets and social programs to avoid that as much as possible. Societies that don't do this are not much fun to live in, and rarely produce much that's worth while.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:04:31pm

re: #197 EmmmieG

I was kind of thinking this is odd thinking for a non-Catholic. The world of her ancestors before the Renaissance was very Catholic.

It also involved a large amount of spoiled food, disease, and, well, crap. Hygiene is a modern idea.

Although people washed more in the Middle Ages than in the later Renaissance.

201 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:05:30pm

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Replying to the bolded portion: Yes, but they were not mandated to come by government decree. Voluntary associations I have no problem with. What I don't like is the government deciding to tax Rich Bob in order to pay to have Poor Tom's barn raised.

So are you OK then with taking away from grandma, to give tax breaks to exxon?

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:06:00pm

re: #196 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

KJV IS THE IMMUTABLE WORD OF GOD, PASSED DOWN TO BABY JESUS AND HASN'T CHANGED IN ALL 6000 YEARS THAT THE UNIVERSE HAS EXISTED!

FTFY

203 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:06:50pm

DOW closes at -520.

204 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:07:17pm

re: #203 Gus 802

DOW closes at -520.

Fuck

205 wee fury  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:07:37pm

re: #203 Gus 802

DOW closes at -520.

It sure did.

206 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:08:21pm

re: #204 Killgore Trout

Fuck

Guess it was on France. They might be downgraded next or have already been downgraded. Hard figuring this out so far.

207 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:08:48pm

re: #203 Gus 802

DOW closes at -520.

beer cans have held at 10cents apiece

208 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:09:17pm

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Replying to the bolded portion: Yes, but they were not mandated to come by government decree. Voluntary associations I have no problem with. What I don't like is the government deciding to tax Rich Bob in order to pay to have Poor Tom's barn raised.

we live in a democracy - we are "the government". we all made the decision that we all need to contribute to the common good

contrary to popular belief, the american government is not a dictatorship imposed on us by evil aliens from the alpha centuri nebula

this is not some kind of pernicious innovation that contravenes centuries of practice in human society, you know. it's been done for thousands of years by all types of governments, and all other countries existing now have a more shared sacrifice model than we do

imagine that you are living in the fifteenth century. if you refuse to give your tithe - ten percent - to the church for the purpose, among other things, of the support of the poor, widows, and orphans, you'd have an angry bishop on your butt quoting jesus at you

209 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:09:22pm

re: #204 Killgore Trout

Fuck

Tried to tell you earlier

There will also be loses tomorrow and Friday, but not as steep

Unless something catastrophic happens over the weekend things will start to turn slowly upward as the bargain hunters will be out

210 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:09:26pm

Sacre bleu! France may be next on chopping block of countries who might see AAA credit ratings dropped. And why would they get dropped? Well, you see, they've bought up tons of debt from Italy and Greece.

That sent the markets tumbling anew.

211 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:09:39pm

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

Replying to the bolded portion: Yes, but they were not mandated to come by government decree.

Depends on where you were. I mean, most places came from feudalism, which is where capitalism really shines in comparison. In feudalism, you owned nothing, the lord took most of your stuff and left you with a portion. You had to give him labor because he commanded it. Labor was not something that could be sold, except by absolutely expert artisans, who were often compelled anyway; you couldn't just run off and blacksmith somewhere else, you'd be prevented from leaving.

So capitalism is a much better economic system than that.

However, in the communities that did and do practice communal labor, like the Amish, various African tribes, the Mondragon commune, kibbutzen, etc., you really are mandated to perform that labor. If you sit out barn-raising in Amish culture, you will eventually get shunned, kicked out, or otherwise rejected. If you refuse to work and contribute to the kibbutzen, you'll get thrown out too.

That sort of social government isn't possible over long distances. Republican democracy is supposed to replace that sort of communal government, where we all protect, and help, each other, because our communal well-being is tied up together.

So yes, taxes are a way for you to help out other people in your society as well as to provide for the common defense against common ills. Because we no longer live in small, close-knit societies. And if we don't help others, on a large scale, then the inevitable end, as shown by history, is mass unrest. If we let the disparity between rich and poor grow to wide, our culture will fragment, disappear, and something new will take its place.

Our Republic is a fragile thing. It has lasted a short time in the history of this world. It's worth perserving.

212 wee fury  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:09:44pm

re: #207 albusteve

beer cans have held at 10cents apiece

Buy Beer!

213 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:10:17pm

re: #204 Killgore Trout

Fuck

Cheer up. Fortunes were made.

214 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:11:15pm

re: #210 lawhawk

Sacre bleu! France may be next on chopping block of countries who might see AAA credit ratings dropped. And why would they get dropped? Well, you see, they've bought up tons of debt from Italy and Greece.

That sent the markets tumbling anew.

Yep. It's going global now. All the downgrading. Rough times ahead. Rougher than we've already been through already. Expect some serious austerity measures everywhere.

215 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:11:31pm

re: #210 lawhawk

Sacre bleu! France may be next on chopping block of countries who might see AAA credit ratings dropped. And why would they get dropped? Well, you see, they've bought up tons of debt from Italy and Greece.

That sent the markets tumbling anew.

Is the EU headed for a full fledged depression? I really don't have a read on what's likely to happen over there.

216 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:12:54pm

furthermore:

Replying to the bolded portion: Yes, but they were not mandated to come by government decree

they came because they understood that not only was helping other people was the right thing to do, but also that in helping other people, they helped themselves

so-called "free market advocates" need to learn that simple fact

217 lawhawk  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:13:26pm

With fewer places being considered AAA, investment houses have fewer places to stash funds as per their investment rules.

Insurance companies and banks had to shift out of US paper to other paper when S&P downgraded the US to AA+ from AAA, because they were required to hold only top-rated sovereign debt.

Now, the fear is that France is about to get downgraded, meaning that investors have one fewer place to put the money. So, these same brainiacs have to find somewhere else to stash the money before S&P downgrades France and that causes a ripple effect through the markets as everyone is trying to guess what will happen next.

218 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:13:38pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Yep. It's going global now. All the downgrading. Rough times ahead. Rougher than we've already been through already. Expect some serious austerity measures everywhere.

It's BEEN global

Greece (et al) were just the tip of the icebergs

Bailing them out when they mandated very little changes in how they do business was invariably going to come back to haunt the EU

219 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:14:15pm

congress is on 6 weeks of vacation....paid for by the voters

220 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:15:27pm

re: #219 albusteve

congress is on 6 weeks of vacation...paid for by the voters LOBBYISTS

ftfy,,, salary alone doesn't get them a beach house on Marthas Vineyard or on The Outer Banks of NC

221 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:15:43pm

re: #214 Gus 802

Yep. It's going global now. All the downgrading. Rough times ahead. Rougher than we've already been through already. Expect some serious austerity measures everywhere.*

*Not applicable to the Koch Brothers, Goldman Sachs CEO, hedge fund managers, and anyone else in a similar income bracket.

222 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:15:43pm

re: #218 sattv4u2

It's BEEN global

Greece (et al) were just the tip of the icebergs

Bailing them out when they mandated very little changes in how they do business was invariably going to come back to haunt the EU

What I said was the downgrading has gone global.

223 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:15:43pm

re: #219 albusteve

congress is on 6 weeks of vacation...paid for by the voters

Oh--so you're still holding on to hope.

224 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:16:58pm

re: #222 Gus 802

What I said was the downgrading has gone global.

K

225 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:17:09pm

re: #221 publicityStunted

*Not applicable to the Koch Brothers, Goldman Sachs CEO, hedge fund managers, and anyone else in a similar income bracket.

Oh yeah. Of course not. Those scum buckets will find a way to maintain their wealth. Even if the rest of the pions have to go to war for them so to speak. They'd be looking down at the riots from their penthouse apartments while eating caviar and sipping champagne.

226 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:17:17pm

re: #223 Decatur Deb

Oh--so you're still holding on to hope.

hope for what?

227 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:17:54pm

re: #226 albusteve

hope for what?

That we have 6 weeks to square away before they get back.

228 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:17:56pm

re: #226 albusteve

hope for what?

Change

229 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:18:46pm

re: #219 albusteve

congress is on 6 weeks of vacation...paid for by the voters

6 weeks? Crap. What a bunch of prima donnas. They're practically worthless anyway. All of them.

230 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:19:22pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

Renault is trying to survive a turbulent and disastrous time, and he never pretends to be a saint, or criticizes others for doing what they need to.

He's a better man than Bachmann, far as I'm cocerned.

I mean, he's an SOB, but a fairly decent one deep down.

He also has a sense of humor.

231 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:19:32pm

re: #227 Decatur Deb

That we have 6 weeks to square away before they get back.

I see no way that's gonna happen

232 Amory Blaine  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:19:54pm

Ayn Rand minions will be the first to tell you that it is perfectly acceptable to take government money as long as you don't lobby or vote for policies that provide that money.

This will roll right off of her but I appreciate the article.

233 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:20:01pm

How to get rid of tenants? SCORPIONS!

A REAL estate company was suspected of releasing several thousand scorpions into apartments at a residential complex in Shenzhen to force residents to move out in order to make way for a new construction project.

A resident surnamed Chen woke up early Monday morning and discovered a scorpion crawling on his body. Chen turned on the light and was astonished to see the bedroom full of scorpions, which have a poisonous sting, local news portal Southcn.com reported yesterday.

Chen woke up his family and together they captured several hundred scorpions in his apartment.

Chen later learned from his neighbor that the arachnids were discovered in all apartments on the street, the report said.

A man holding a bucket was seen walking out of the office of Shenzhen Luosha Engineering Development Co, a real estate firm that will build a new project at the complex. The man poured something from the bucket into apartment windows, a witness surnamed Li told the website. Li later found the street was crawling with scorpions, the report said.

Police and residents spent the whole night capturing nearly 50 kilograms of scorpions.

234 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:20:45pm

re: #219 albusteve

congress is on 6 weeks of vacation...paid for by the voters

They really do have to do that. They have to take large amounts of time to campaign and raise money. A congressman or senator in a major media market may well spend half of his waking time during break fundraising. The costs to run the needed TV and radio ads are that high.

235 I Am Kreniigh!  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:21:42pm

re: #53 Alouette

Who's a librarian?

raises hand

236 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:21:43pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How to get rid of tenants? SCORPIONS!

Just add chocolate

Problem Solved !!

[Link: www.mirabilis.ca...]

237 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:22:30pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How to get rid of tenants? SCORPIONS!

Well if the government is allowing the story to be reported, then that means some mid level people at the development company are likely in a lot of trouble. Not the top-level people with real clout, of course.

238 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:22:43pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

They really do have to do that. They have to take large amounts of time to campaign and raise money. A congressman or senator in a major media market may well spend half of his waking time during break fundraising. The costs to run the needed TV and radio ads are that high.

I got a hot tip from the kitchen for you

They spend " half of his waking time" in SESSION doing the same thing!

239 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:23:06pm

re: #235 Kreniigh

raises hand

Never volunteer, dogface.

240 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:23:55pm

Cripes...

@RevReinard Tom Reinard
Kentucky Gives Creationist Theme Park 75 Percent Tax Discount For The Next 30 Years [Link: t.co...] via @thinkprogress

241 Amory Blaine  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:24:03pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

They really do have to do that. They have to take large amounts of time to campaign and raise money. A congressman or senator in a major media market may well spend half of his waking time during break fundraising. The costs to run the needed TV and radio ads are that high.

Since the airwaves are ours (the peoples), the ads should be free. My opinion.

242 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:24:09pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How to get rid of tenants? SCORPIONS!

And if you don't have access to scorpions, these could achieve a similar result.

243 Gus  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:24:15pm

It's like the world went into reverse.

244 jaunte  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:25:44pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Arkbuilders Jobs Program.

245 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:25:47pm

re: #217 lawhawk

With fewer places being considered AAA, investment houses have fewer places to stash funds as per their investment rules.

Insurance companies and banks had to shift out of US paper to other paper when S&P downgraded the US to AA+ from AAA, because they were required to hold only top-rated sovereign debt.

Now, the fear is that France is about to get downgraded, meaning that investors have one fewer place to put the money. So, these same brainiacs have to find somewhere else to stash the money before S&P downgrades France and that causes a ripple effect through the markets as everyone is trying to guess what will happen next.

(Conspiracy)
So we need to find the AAA rated country that is paying off the rating agencies to downgrade everyone else so that they get all the mandated foreign investment money.

And you know that the ****** will be behind it!
(/Conspiracy)

246 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:26:02pm

re: #240 Gus 802

God: the Prime Job Creator. He created every job in the universe.

247 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:26:31pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Cripes...

@RevReinard Tom Reinard
Kentucky Gives Creationist Theme Park 75 Percent Tax Discount For The Next 30 Years [Link: t.co...] via @thinkprogress

I can see no possible negative repercussions because of that decision.

248 Amory Blaine  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:26:39pm

re: #246 ralphieboy

God: the Prime Job Creator. He created every job in the universe.

Well you could skip the interview anyways..

249 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:26:41pm

re: #238 sattv4u2

I got a hot tip from the kitchen for you

They spend " half of his waking time" in SESSION doing the same thing!

Very true. Running for office takes huge amounts of money in the US. And that means you need a wide donor base, unless you're rich enough to self-finance.

It also means that members of Congress often cannot acquire real expertise on the issues they vote on. They don't really have time to learn because their need for money is so great.

250 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:27:23pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Cripes...

@RevReinard Tom Reinard
Kentucky Gives Creationist Theme Park 75 Percent Tax Discount For The Next 30 Years [Link: t.co...] via @thinkprogress

whoa

251 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:28:11pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Cripes...

@RevReinard Tom Reinard
Kentucky Gives Creationist Theme Park 75 Percent Tax Discount For The Next 30 Years [Link: t.co...] via @thinkprogress

The Sky Daddy is a very good lobbyist.

252 Amory Blaine  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:28:17pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Cripes...

@RevReinard Tom Reinard
Kentucky Gives Creationist Theme Park 75 Percent Tax Discount For The Next 30 Years [Link: t.co...] via @thinkprogress

What about leaving that debt for our children!!!Think of the Children!!!

253 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:28:32pm

re: #242 publicityStunted

And if you don't have access to scorpions, these could achieve a similar result.

With mice, though, this is always an option.

254 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:29:23pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

They really do have to do that. They have to take large amounts of time to campaign and raise money. A congressman or senator in a major media market may well spend half of his waking time during break fundraising. The costs to run the needed TV and radio ads are that high.

Right there is a source or perhaps motivation that corrupts our system. Rather than try to regulate who can donate or how much. perhaps all we really have to do is regulate the length of the campaign. Say 60 days. 60 days in which a person can advertise their skills and experience. Not a thing before then. No paid ads on any media. That way it's not these huge media buys over months and months and months.

255 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:29:37pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

With mice, though, this is always an option.

With Supermouse on the way I suspect that cat futures might be a good investment.

256 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:30:36pm

re: #249 Dark_Falcon

Very true. Running for office takes huge amounts of money in the US. And that means you need a wide donor base, unless you're rich enough to self-finance.

It also means that members of Congress often cannot acquire real expertise on the issues they vote on. They don't really have time to learn because their need for money is so great.

And that, right there is the source of most of the problems in this country.

257 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:31:27pm

re: #254 Rightwingconspirator

Ah, like the good ole days

When Christmas decorations in stores weren't put out till the day after Thanksgiving, unlike now, during Labor Day weekend!!

258 simoom  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:31:49pm

[Link: thehill.com...]

The House Budget Committee estimates that three proposals being floated by the White House to stimulate job growth will increase the deficit by $250 billion over 10 years.

President Obama has set his sights on extending a temporary payroll tax holiday and extending unemployment insurance in order to get more money into the hands of consumers and stimulate demand. He is also backing a proposal to set up a national infrastructure bank to fund more projects as a means of adding construction jobs.

...

Chairman Paul Ryan’s (R-Wis.) Budget Committee argues against accepting the proposals because they would be costly.

It estimates that the payroll tax deduction would cost $112 billion, the insurance would cost $45 billion and the bank $23 billion over 10 years. Factoring in additional interest payments brings the cost to $250 billion.

Wait a min Chairman Ryan, I thought tax cuts always increase revenue..? ///

259 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:33:32pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

They really do have to do that. They have to take large amounts of time to campaign and raise money. A congressman or senator in a major media market may well spend half of his waking time during break fundraising. The costs to run the needed TV and radio ads are that high.

They raise funds, meet lobbyists, etc while in Washington too. They might meet with some donors while on vacation but they're mostly vacationing.

260 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:33:54pm

re: #254 Rightwingconspirator

Right there is a source or perhaps motivation that corrupts our system. Rather than try to regulate who can donate or how much. perhaps all we really have to do is regulate the length of the campaign. Say 60 days. 60 days in which a person can advertise their skills and experience. Not a thing before then. No paid ads on any media. That way it's not these huge media buys over months and months and months.

All that would do is limit the everyday person from contributing and exacerbate the problem. The fat cats can get the money in 60 days. Regular folks need to donate small amounts over time.

261 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:34:23pm

re: #256 blueraven

And that, right there is the source of most of the problems in this country.

Nothing to be done about it, though. A congressman has to bid against others who also want a share of the limited amount of ad time. The fact that so many orgs have a need for it makes costs high.

Moreover, not all the ads these days are on broadcast TV. Both Fox News and MSNBC carried campaign ads last year, and cable/sat networks do not use public airwaves.

262 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:34:41pm

re: #259 Killgore Trout

They raise funds, meet lobbyists, etc while in Washington too. They might meet with some donors while on vacation but they're mostly vacationing.

HAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Thnaks,,, I needed that

263 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:35:32pm

re: #232 Amory Blaine

Ayn Rand minions will be the first to tell you that it is perfectly acceptable to take government money as long as you don't lobby or vote for policies that provide that money.

This will roll right off of her but I appreciate the article.

Bleeding the beast! It's not that surprising that the same people who claim to be the most ardent patriots hate the government the most and openly equate it with the anti-Christ. What's amazing is that these malignant parasites can get away with it.

264 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:36:00pm

re: #233 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

How to get rid of tenants? SCORPIONS!

Some years ago, when the city of San Francisco was trying to get some sea lions out of the docks by Pier 39, they started playing tapes of orcas.

This worked, as I commented at the time, about as well as trying to get people out of a Manhattan high rise by playing lion noises at them. Sea lions are not dumb.

This sounds more effective.

265 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:36:22pm

re: #254 Rightwingconspirator

Right there is a source or perhaps motivation that corrupts our system. Rather than try to regulate who can donate or how much. perhaps all we really have to do is regulate the length of the campaign. Say 60 days. 60 days in which a person can advertise their skills and experience. Not a thing before then. No paid ads on any media. That way it's not these huge media buys over months and months and months.

I'd like that, but it likely wouldn't survive a 1st Amendment challenge.

re: #257 sattv4u2

Ah, like the good ole days

When Christmas decorations in stores weren't put out till the day after Thanksgiving, unlike now, during Labor Day weekend!!

That's one of my biggest pet peeves. Thankfully, a good thing about the recession is it seems to have pushed Christmas decorations back into October here in Chicagoland.

266 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:36:58pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Nothing to be done about it, though. A congressman has to bid against others who also want a share of the limited amount of ad time. The fact that so many orgs have a need for it makes costs high.

Moreover, not all the ads these days are on broadcast TV. Both Fox News and MSNBC carried campaign ads last year, and cable/sat networks do not use public airwaves.

Sure there are things that can be done. Campaign finance reform and laws to combat Citizens United.

267 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:37:32pm

Image: 610x.jpg

President Barack Obama makes a face as he talks with campaign volunteers as he has lunch at Ted's Bulletin in Washingotn, Wednesday, Aug. 10, 2011.


lol

268 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:37:34pm

re: #258 simoom

[Link: thehill.com...]

Wait a min Chairman Ryan, I thought tax cuts always increase revenue..? ///

That's cuts to taxes of the rich, silly, not workers.Payroll taxes are a pittance in comparison, so how could they increase revenue?

269 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:39:14pm

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

That's one of my biggest pet peeves. Thankfully, a good thing about the recession is it seems to have pushed Christmas decorations back into October here in Chicagoland.

Years and years ago I decided to not shop in places that had their decorations up before Thanksgiving
Once most everyone did, I amended it to Halloween
Again, most have them up by then, so another amendment was needed

ATTENTION RETAILERS,,, I WILL NOT SHOP AT YOUR STORE IF YOU HAVE YOUR CHRISTMAS DECORATIONS UP BEFORE FOURTH OF JULY!!

270 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:39:52pm

The most orange he's ever been....
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

271 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:43:58pm

re: #270 Killgore Trout

Knock it off, Killgore. Making fun of someone's skin tone like that is rather juvenile. It's been going on here for a while, but it's really getting kind of old. Focus on Boener's policy ideas, not his skin color.

272 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:44:05pm

re: #266 blueraven

Sure there are things that can be done. Campaign finance reform and laws to combat Citizens United.

Such as!?!?

And only them, or would they apply to any like org from either side??

273 BongCrodny  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:44:47pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Cripes...

@RevReinard Tom Reinard
Kentucky Gives Creationist Theme Park 75 Percent Tax Discount For The Next 30 Years [Link: t.co...] via @thinkprogress


It's all about the Abrahams.

274 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:45:48pm

re: #267 Killgore Trout

Image: 610x.jpg


lol

I'll bet that image will be used by folks like Drudge and Breitbart to mock Obama for many months to come. Which will be juvenile of them, too.

275 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:46:04pm

re: #273 BongCrodny

It's all about the Abrahams.

And the Issacs.

276 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:47:05pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon


In the interest of fairness ban balance, Newsweek should be required to put that phot on its next cover...

277 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:48:43pm

re: #271 Dark_Falcon

Knock it off, Killgore. Making fun of someone's skin tone like that is rather juvenile. It's been going on here for a while, but it's really getting kind of old. Focus on Boener's policy ideas, not his skin color.

Sorry for my insensitivity to Orange-Americans.

278 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:49:15pm

re: #266 blueraven

Sure there are things that can be done. Campaign finance reform and laws to combat Citizens United.

The bill the Dems advanced was one-sided, restricting corporations but not unions. Nor would it have had a real chance of surviving challenge. The Citizens United decision gut-shot the movement for campaign finance reform. One of its Senate champions (Russ Feingold) was also defeated in the last election and another (Joe Lieberman) is on his way out. Money will rule for the foreseeable future.

279 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:49:30pm

re: #274 Dark_Falcon

I'll bet that image will be used by folks like Drudge and Breitbart to mock Obama for many months to come. Which will be juvenile of them, too.

It's a funny picture.

280 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:49:53pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Sorry for my insensitivity to Orange-Americans.

He may actually have jaundice, or a form of it

(and no, not all jaundice comes from over drinking)

281 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:50:43pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Sorry for my insensitivity to Orange-Americans.

I believe the politically correct term is Pumpkin-American.

282 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:51:10pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

It's a funny picture.

I understand. But I don't like using "funny pictures" as a kind of political 'gotcha'. It makes everything about image and leaves no room for serious discussion.

283 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:51:24pm

I had just finished reading the Bachmann profile in the New Yorker, when I got an email for $0.99 domain registration. I was in a silly mood, so I decided to see if a variant of her Alma Mater's domain was available! It was, so $0.99 later, I'm now the proud owner of

[Link: www.analroberts.com...]
(Warning NFSW background image, gleaned from the wikimedea commons. I spent all of 5 minutes making a page.)

I'll "sit" on this domain for a while, but if she gets elected President, it may be a handy site to put a blog, or at least a rant or two.

284 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:51:33pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

Such as!?!?

And only them, or would they apply to any like org from either side??

What org? I am talking about the Supreme Court decision as a whole. Yes, any laws would apply across the board. That would be the whole point, for interest money not to have such a huge influence on elections/policy.

285 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:51:54pm

re: #281 Slumbering Behemoth

I believe the politically correct term is Pumpkin-American.

Don't denigrate cucurbitude.

286 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:52:08pm

re: #281 Slumbering Behemoth

I believe the politically correct term is Pumpkin-American.

Be careful, people are sensitive in here today. They might report you to Orange Sharpton.

287 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:52:21pm

re: #280 sattv4u2

He may actually have jaundice, or a form of it

(and no, not all jaundice comes from over drinking)

Unlikely.

I think it's self-induced (or applied), which would make it open to mockery, IMHO, but I shall refrain, since I'm not sure.

"Orange-Americans" is funny, though.

"Pumpkin-Americans" is even funnier.

288 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:52:38pm

re: #283 reuven

[Dark_Falcon glares at reuven in silent disapproval.]

289 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:53:35pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

Be careful, people are sensitive in here today. They might report you to Orange Sharpton.

And his posse of ninja Oompa-Loompas.

290 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:53:39pm

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

I understand. But I don't like using "funny pictures" as a kind of political 'gotcha'. It makes everything about image and leaves no room for serious discussion.

If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.
I don't think either picture was used here as a "political gotchya"

I enjoy candid "blooper" type photos of ANY public figure,, politicians,,, athletes,,,

Hell,, the NFL Network has HOURS of "Blooper" shows showing some of the best at their worst

AND IT'S FUNNY

291 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:53:52pm

Koch funded Tea Party event attracts 15 people

What happens when you hold a rally and no one shows up? On Tuesday, Americans For Prosperity found out.

The group, founded and funded by infamous GOP rainmakers Charles and David Koch, rolled into Jacksonville Tuesday, and only roughly 15 people showed up. Florida director Slade O'Brien said they had more than 200 registered to come, and the turnout was "shocking."

The Jacksonville event was held at Hemming Plaza, and it is the first of a six city "Running on Empty Tour." Tour organizers are pushing for increased domestic energy production, and highlight why they say President Barack Obama's policies have upped energy costs.

"We urge the president to let oil production begin again, to let national gas production begin, to let coal production begin," said Tim Phillips, the group's president.

Quick check of Koch Industries:

Products: Petroleum, Chemicals, Energy, Asphalt, Natural gas

Tea Party groups are whores.

292 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:54:15pm

re: #284 blueraven

What org? I am talking about the Supreme Court decision as a whole. Yes, any laws would apply across the board. That would be the whole point, for interest money not to have such a huge influence on elections/policy.

Just asking, seeing that you singled out the one

293 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:54:44pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

The bill the Dems advanced was one-sided, restricting corporations but not unions. Nor would it have had a real chance of surviving challenge. The Citizens United decision gut-shot the movement for campaign finance reform. One of its Senate champions (Russ Feingold) was also defeated in the last election and another (Joe Lieberman) is on his way out. Money will rule for the foreseeable future.

Until the proletariat rise up against it. Then it might be too late.

294 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:55:24pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No need to insult prostitutes. These people are far worse.

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:55:40pm

re: #286 Killgore Trout

Be careful, people are sensitive in here today. They might report you to Orange Sharpton.

George Hamilton?

296 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:55:45pm

BTW: The New Yorker article, and an interview with the author

[Link: www.npr.org...] (a SAFE FOR WORK link!)

reveals she's been on the public dole all her career!

297 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:56:29pm

re: #294 Obdicut

No need to insult prostitutes. These people are far worse.

You are correct. I've hung out with whores and they're a lot more honest and fun.

298 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:56:58pm
299 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:57:45pm

re: #287 wrenchwench

Unlikely.

I think it's self-induced (or applied), which would make it open to mockery, IMHO, but I shall refrain, since I'm not sure.

"Orange-Americans" is funny, though.

"Pumpkin-Americans" is even funnier.


I'm thinking that by now, if it were "self induced", some staff member would be in his ear with a "by the way John,,, as the face of the congress, you look ridiculous , AND,, people are talking"

300 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:57:47pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Koch funded Tea Party event attracts 15 people

Quick check of Koch Industries:

Products: Petroleum, Chemicals, Energy, Asphalt, Natural gas

Tea Party groups are whores.

I believe that's what AstroTurf is made from.

301 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:59:15pm

re: #298 Lidane

Crazy lady is crazy:

Bachmann: Obama Told Me The Affordable Care Act Eliminates Medicare

Isn't that a good thing for Michelle and her base? They've been wanting Medicare guttered from the minute LBJ said medi-care.

302 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:59:17pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

This is going to be a big strategy next year: we will see gasoline prices spike over the summer, peaking in late October/early November, acompanied by the naarative that Obama is responsible for high energy prices because he has not done enough to encourage domestic production.

303 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 1:59:31pm

re: #299 sattv4u2

I'm thinking that by now, if it were "self induced", some staff member would be in his ear with a "by the way John,,, as the face of the congress, you look ridiculous , AND,, people are talking"

His staff is secretly made up of Democrats.

304 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:00:06pm

re: #303 wrenchwench

His staff is secretly made up of Democrats Pumpkin People.

305 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:00:46pm

We're all going to Hell. At least we'll be in good company.

306 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:00:48pm

re: #303 wrenchwench

His staff is secretly made up of the cast of Jersey Shore.

Double fix

307 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:00:58pm

re: #303 wrenchwench

re: #304 sattv4u2

"he looks good to me,, what about you, George?"

[Link: www.daytonsbluff.org...]

308 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:01:05pm

re: #293 blueraven

Until the proletariat rise up against it. Then it might be too late.

Not going to happen here.

309 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:01:33pm

re: #301 HappyWarrior

Isn't that a good thing for Michelle and her base? They've been wanting Medicare guttered from the minute LBJ said medi-care.

You would think so, except that the Tea Party is made up of idiots who demand that the government get their hands off Medicare. Herp derp.

310 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:03:16pm

re: #292 sattv4u2

Just asking, seeing that you singled out the one

Well Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission was the big Supreme Court decision allowing even more money into campaigns. It applies to unions as well as corporations. I really dont know how else I could have phrased it, but whatever.

311 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:03:28pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Not going to happen here.

If it is going to happen here, Chicago will be among the first.

312 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:03:54pm

re: #309 Lidane

You would think so, except that the Tea Party is made up of idiots who demand that the government get their hands off Medicare. Herp derp.

Yeah, I know. Speaking of which, I was reading about how Craig T. Nelson the dude who played Coach on Coach was talking about how people need to be self reliant and stuff on Glenn Beck and he was talking about how he relied on food stamps and welfare and how "no one helped him out." I love stuff like that. Bellyache about the government and at the same time benefit from it.

313 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:05:28pm

re: #308 Dark_Falcon

Not going to happen here.

I wouldn't bet on it. People are getting wise to the fact that our tax code as well as our politicians are bought and paid for.

314 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:05:29pm

re: #310 blueraven

Well Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission was the big Supreme Court decision allowing even more money into campaigns. It applies to unions as well as corporations. I really dont know how else I could have phrased it, but whatever.

Your original post stated "laws to combat Citizens United."

NOT what the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission outcome was

Two different phrases

Thats why I asked, but whatever

315 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:05:36pm

meanwhile the Koreans are shooting at each other
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

316 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:06:01pm

re: #312 HappyWarrior

Bellyache about the government and at the same time benefit from it.

Sooo many people do that, from every walk of life and political inclination, that you would almost think it a job requirement.

317 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:06:29pm

re: #299 sattv4u2

I'm thinking that by now, if it were "self induced", some staff member would be in his ear with a "by the way John,,, as the face of the congress, you look ridiculous , AND,, people are talking"

I've seen a series of photos of him through the years from childhood--he just runs orange.

318 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:06:38pm

While 30,000 morons prayed for 7 hours about how God had abandoned them, 100,000 people wondered where the hell their Governor was:

Tens of thousands turn out for back-to-school help


A good seven miles from Gov. Rick Perry's much-anticipated prayer rally, an even larger crowd of Houstonians gathered in preparation for another sacred event: the first day of school.

Some families camped out for hours to gain admittance into Houston's first-ever, citywide back-to-school event at George R. Brown Convention Center, where free backpacks, school supplies, uniforms, haircut vouchers, immunizations and fresh produce were provided.

Others were turned away.

"It was getting beyond capacity," HISD spokesman Jason Spencer said. "If nothing else, it shows the need."

Maribel Martinez and her five children ages 8 to 13 arrived around 7 a.m. to receive backpacks stuffed with supplies including paper, pencils, a pencil sharpener, glue and a compact disc of songs. They also got uniform shirts.

"This is a help, given how the economy is," said Martinez, an East End homemaker whose husband works full-time.

Beatrice Jones, who has two children in the Spring school district, arrived about 10:15 a.m. with her daughter and niece, only to find the doors closed and a police officer announcing the event was over.

"They were supposed to have school supplies, but all we got was sweating and paid parking," Jones said.

School Superintendent Terry Grier posted a Twitter message Saturday morning that security personnel had estimated the crowd at 100,000. At about 10 a.m., officials made the call to close the doors.

Although planners didn't know how many people would attend, they expected to serve at least 25,000 children, officials said.

319 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:06:54pm

re: #317 Decatur Deb

I've seen a series of photos of him through the years from childhood--he just runs orange.

Maybe it's his "gang" colors!!

320 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:07:05pm

re: #315 albusteve

meanwhile the Koreans are shooting at each other
[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Must be a day ending in Y

321 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:07:29pm

re: #317 Decatur Deb

I've seen a series of photos of him through the years from childhood--he just runs orange.

Actually, thats why I asked if he may have a form of jaundice

322 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:07:29pm

re: #319 sattv4u2

Maybe it's his "gang" colors!!

He's German Catholic not Northern Irish Protestant :D.

323 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:08:28pm

re: #318 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

While 30,000 morons prayed for 7 hours about how God had abandoned them, 100,000 people wondered where the hell their Governor was:

Tens of thousands turn out for back-to-school help

Yeah if I were a Texan, I'd be pissed at this joker. Nothing against prayer personally hell I pray too but he needs to do his damn job. He wasn't elected as revivalist in chief, he was elected governor. Sad part is if he runs for president, he's gonna be an instant front runner.

324 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:09:29pm

Theodore Dalrymple on the UK Riots:

The ferocious criminality exhibited by an uncomfortably large section of the English population during the current riots has not surprised me in the least. I have been writing about it, in its slightly less acute manifestations, for the past 20 years. To have spotted it required no great perspicacity on my part; rather, it took a peculiar cowardly blindness, one regularly displayed by the British intelligentsia and political class, not to see it and not to realize its significance. There is nothing that an intellectual less likes to change than his mind, or a politician his policy.

Three men were run over and killed as they tried to protect their property in the very area of Birmingham in which I used to work, and through which I walked daily; the large town that I live near when I’m in England has also seen rioting. Only someone who never looked around him and never drew any conclusions from the faces and manner of the young men he saw would have been surprised.

The riots are the apotheosis of the welfare state and popular culture in their British form. A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts; and therefore it regards the fact that it does not receive that high standard, by comparison with the rest of society, as a sign of injustice. It believes itself deprived (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class), even though each member of it has received an education costing $80,000, toward which neither he nor—quite likely—any member of his family has made much of a contribution; indeed, he may well have lived his entire life at others’ expense, such that every mouthful of food he has ever eaten, every shirt he has ever worn, every television he has ever watched, has been provided by others. Even if he were to recognize this, he would not be grateful, for dependency does not promote gratitude. On the contrary, he would simply feel that the subventions were not sufficient to allow him to live as he would have liked.

325 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:09:42pm

re: #314 sattv4u2

Your original post stated "laws to combat Citizens United."

NOT what the Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission outcome was

Two different phrases

Thats why I asked, but whatever

Everybody here knows what Citizens United means.

326 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:09:49pm

re: #283 reuven

While part of me wants to castigate you for being rude, crude and juvenile for that, another part of me is laughing my ass off at the idea (though, since I'm at work right now, I can't open it up)...because it's rude, crude, and juvenile.

I'm torn...

327 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:10:28pm

re: #316 Slumbering Behemoth

Sooo many people do that, from every walk of life and political inclination, that you would almost think it a job requirement.

Yep for sure. Some of them even get elected because of it.

328 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:10:35pm

re: #323 HappyWarrior

Yeah if I were a Texan, I'd be pissed at this joker. Nothing against prayer personally hell I pray too but he needs to do his damn job. He wasn't elected as revivalist in chief, he was elected governor. Sad part is if he runs for president, he's gonna be an instant front runner.

If I hired somebody to do a job, and he came back and told me it was too hard, but he was going to have a long good pray about fixing it and putting it in God's hands, I'd fire the son of a bitch.

329 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:10:46pm

re: #325 blueraven

Everybody here knows what Citizens United means.

Sorry, I'm not "everyone here".
I asked for clarity, not clairvoyance

:)

330 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:11:13pm

re: #321 sattv4u2

Actually, thats why I asked if he may have a form of jaundice

The accompanying article backed off that--he seems a lot different in differing light.

331 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:11:22pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

George Hamilton?

Hasn't GH's skin turned to leather by now?

332 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:11:30pm

re: #322 HappyWarrior

He's German Catholic not Northern Irish Protestant :D.

Good use of religious alignments there. Well done!

333 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:11:59pm

re: #330 Decatur Deb

The accompanying article backed off that--he seems a lot different in differing light.

Don't we all!

334 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:12:23pm

re: #328 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If I hired somebody to do a job, and he came back and told me it was too hard, but he was going to have a long good pray about fixing it and putting it in God's hands, I'd fire the son of a bitch.

Yeah too bad the state of Texas just re-elected the sob. There's obviously a very good reason why Kay Bailey Hutchison challenged him in a primary. She's too conservative for me but she doesn't seem to be an incompetent boob.

335 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:12:39pm

re: #328 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If I hired somebody to do a job, and he came back and told me it was too hard, but he was going to have a long good pray about fixing it and putting it in God's hands, I'd fire the son of a bitch.

So would I. And I've been trying to fire Rick Perry as governor here in Texas for years. Unfortunately, this state has gone completely down the rabbit hole into deep red state fail. People here have bought into the GOP's bullshit wholesale.

336 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:12:40pm

re: #331 talon_262

Oh, sure. Start with the racial slurs. I thought you were better than that.
///

337 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:14:14pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

"...he may well have lived his entire life at others’ expense, such that every mouthful of food he has ever eaten, every shirt he has ever worn, every television he has ever watched, has been provided by others..."

Is he talking about the welfare class or the royal family? It is odd how one end of society is a twisted mirror of the other.

Another article in [Link: www.salon.com...] mentions how David Cameron was a memeber of an elite Oxford University club that was known for going out and trashing restaurants (at least they would later pay for the damages, all just good fun, you know...)

338 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:14:35pm

re: #327 HappyWarrior

Yep for sure. Some of them even get elected because of it.

Most of 'em still in High School. You know, the ones who know everything. I think they're called "teen-agers".

339 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:15:18pm

Afternoon Levity

Tony was 9 years old and was staying with his grandmother for a few days.
He'd been playing outside with the other kids, when he came into the house
and asked her, 'Grandma, what's that called when two people sleep in the
same bedroom and one is on top of the other?' She was a little taken aback,
but she decided to tell him the truth. 'Well, dear, it's called sexual intercourse.’
‘Oh,’ Little Tony said, 'OK,' and went back outside to play with the other kids.
A few minutes later he came back in and said angrily, 'Grandma, it isn't
called sexual intercourse. It's called Bunk Beds. And Jimmy's mom wants to talk to you.'

340 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:16:40pm

re: #334 HappyWarrior

Yeah too bad the state of Texas just re-elected the sob.

One of the few overtly political posts on my FB was bitching about Perry getting another term in office. I'm tired of looking at him.

341 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:17:03pm

re: #334 HappyWarrior

Yeah too bad the state of Texas just re-elected the sob. There's obviously a very good reason why Kay Bailey Hutchison challenged him in a primary. She's too conservative for me but she doesn't seem to be an incompetent boob.

She got stuck in DC due to the fight over Obama's health care bill. As a result, she couldn't campaign and Rick Perry was able to paint her as a "DC Insider". It was a BS generalization, but one that really could not be refuted effectively as long as she was in DC. Hutchison lost because she was too busy being a senator to run for governor.

342 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:17:35pm

re: #192 blueraven

I didnt call anybody names. I said the argument for voluntarily paying more than one has to under law is ridiculous. People will not do that and are not hypocrites if they advocate for more tax revenue.

I dont know what you mean by inclusive income. On tax forms we see adjustable income, (income adjusted after any gains and/or losses) taxable income (amount of income to be taxed after exemptions)...what is inclusive income?

I have ownership interest in two companies, so have inclusive income that I have to pay personal income tax on. Inclusive income includes some capital gains and losses that are on the balance sheet. If I pay the taxes as if income but don't take the dividend, it acts like tax deferred future income. Both companies lost money in 2009 so this actually reduced my income by quite a bit and reduced the tax burden. Lost money in 2009 because we (the other owners and I) elected to not have any layoffs.

343 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:18:25pm

I keep forgetting who Rick Perry is...it's so easy

344 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:18:56pm

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

She also lost because Rick Perry is a good ol' boy from Texas A&M. The good ol' boy network in this state, particularly in the GOP, runs deep.

345 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:19:11pm

re: #340 Lidane

One of the few overtly political posts on my FB was bitching about Perry getting another term in office. I'm tired of looking at him.

My view of Perry is that he's a hypocritical, lying, Bible-thumping SOB...wrong or not?

346 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:19:12pm
347 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:19:15pm

re: #343 albusteve

I keep forgetting who Rick Perry is...it's so easy

I keep not caring who he is

It's so easy!

348 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:00pm

re: #343 albusteve

I keep forgetting who Rick Perry is...it's so easy


If he declares his candidacy, it won't. He would walk away with the nomination and then things will really get hairy.

President Perry's National Day of Christian Prayer. Already has a ring to it, dunnit?

349 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:06pm

re: #345 talon_262

My view of Perry is that he's a hypocritical, lying, Bible-thumping SOB...wrong or not?

You're asking the choir and expect a different answer!?!?!

LOL

350 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:06pm

re: #341 Dark_Falcon

She got stuck in DC due to the fight over Obama's health care bill. As a result, she couldn't campaign and Rick Perry was able to paint her as a "DC Insider". It was a BS generalization, but one that really could not be refuted effectively as long as she was in DC. Hutchison lost because she was too busy being a senator to run for governor.

Yeah I know what happened. A shame. Not someone I would vote for but unlike Perry she seems to be at least be sensible.

351 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:17pm

re: #344 Lidane

She also lost because Rick Perry is a good ol' boy from Texas A&M. The good ol' boy network in this state, particularly in the GOP, runs deep.

Though George W. Bush does not like Perry, or so I've been told.

352 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:19pm

re: #345 talon_262

My view of Perry is that he's a hypocritical, lying, Bible-thumping SOB...wrong or not?

That's putting it mildly. He makes Mitt Romney look sincere in comparison.

353 blueraven  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:50pm

Quell surprise...all 6 republicans appointed to the "select" committee have signed the Grover Norquist no tax pledge.

354 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:20:51pm

re: #351 Dark_Falcon

Though George W. Bush does not like Perry, or so I've been told.

They hate each other.

355 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:21:02pm

re: #343 albusteve

I keep forgetting who Rick Perry is...it's so easy

He was the original singer for Journey.

Steve was just his stage name.

356 TedStriker  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:21:06pm

re: #349 sattv4u2

You're asking the choir and expect a different answer!?!?!

LOL

Just testing y'all ;-P

357 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:21:21pm

re: #346 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rage...taking...over...

Barton: beating kids with a rod should be legal because its in the Bible

ASSHOLE!


And just when you think David Barton couldn't be any more of an asshole, he advocates beating children. Is there any biblical verse that justifies breaking the noses of pompous gasbags?

358 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:22:32pm

re: #353 blueraven

Quell surprise...all 6 republicans appointed to the "select" committee have signed the Grover Norquist no tax pledge.

Dumbest pledge ever.
Never raising taxes?
No matter what?
Lunacy.

359 sattv4u2  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:22:39pm

re: #355 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He was the original singer for Journey.

[Video]Steve was just his stage name.

He also was in the cast of Freinds, again, using the stage name Matthew

[Link: celebrity-poker-player.blogspot.com...]

361 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:23:43pm

re: #357 HappyWarrior

And just when you think David Barton couldn't be any more of an asshole, he advocates beating children. Is there any biblical verse that justifies breaking the noses of pompous gasbags?

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them." Matthew 7:15-20

362 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:23:57pm

I think I remember hearing that H.W Bush and his wife endorsed Hutchison. W Bush stayed neutral since he's been pretty much apolitical since leaving office but I imagine he was rooting for Hutchison.

363 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:25:01pm

re: #358 Varek Raith

Dumbest pledge ever.
Never raising taxes?
No matter what?
Lunacy.

pledges are groovy again

364 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:25:20pm

re: #345 talon_262

My view of Perry is that he's a hypocritical, lying, Bible-thumping SOB...wrong or not?

Rick Perry.....ahhh....(disclaimer here, I worked on Bill White's campaign against Perry). Rick Perry is one of the most nasty smart politicians around. In that regard, he is a right side version of Bill Clinton. He knows how to run a campaign and IS NOT gaff prone. He is the MOST vindictive politician you will ever find. If you oppose Rick Perry anywhere down the line, he will not forgot. If you befriend him, as in give him money, he will do almost anything for you. Do not kid yourself one bit, if he is nominated, he will be formidable.

365 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:26:10pm

re: #358 Varek Raith

Dumbest pledge ever.
Never raising taxes?
No matter what?
Lunacy.


I think Grover makes an exception for wartime.

366 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:26:31pm

re: #365 ralphieboy

I think Grover makes an exception for wartime.

Like now???

367 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:26:51pm

re: #365 ralphieboy

I think Grover makes an exception for wartime.

You mean like now?

368 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:27:03pm

re: #364 Big Steve

Rick Perry...ahhh...(disclaimer here, I worked on Bill White's campaign against Perry). Rick Perry is one of the most nasty smart politicians around. In that regard, he is a right side version of Bill Clinton. He knows how to run a campaign and IS NOT gaff prone. He is the MOST vindictive politician you will ever find. If you oppose Rick Perry anywhere down the line, he will not forgot. If you befriend him, as in give him money, he will do almost anything for you. Do not kid yourself one bit, if he is nominated, he will be formidable.

no human can defeat BO...it's already been decided

369 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:27:49pm

re: #353 blueraven

Quell surprise...all 6 republicans appointed to the "select" committee have signed the Grover Norquist no tax pledge.

Those pledges are so stupid. I understand commitment to lower taxes as a philosophical value but to completely rule out any tax increases as the Norquist pledge requires is dogmatic and stupid.

371 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:28:36pm

re: #368 albusteve

no human can defeat BO...it's already been decided

Almost exactly 50-50 on Intrade.

372 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:29:43pm
373 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:30:01pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

I read that article. That poll was "Adult Americans" instead of "Registered Voters" or "Likely Voters". Thus I consider it to be highly suspect.

What would you rather it say? Cut all taxes for everybody and get rid of all the social safety nets?

374 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:31:30pm

re: #369 HappyWarrior

Those pledges are so stupid. I understand commitment to lower taxes as a philosophical value but to completely rule out any tax increases as the Norquist pledge requires is dogmatic and stupid.

worse yet, it's childish and makes the signees look like a bunch 3rd graders....join our groovy new club!....you get a sticker and the sekrit handjob...er handshake

375 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:32:07pm

re: #374 albusteve

worse yet, it's childish and makes the signees look like a bunch 3rd graders...join our groovy new club!...you get a sticker and the sekrit handjob...er handshake

Lol

376 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:32:30pm

re: #373 Lidane

What would you rather it say? Cut all taxes for everybody and get rid of all the social safety nets?

we need a Flash Mob Tax, pronto

377 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:33:35pm

BTW, reading the actual PDF of the poll results, the very first page says this:

Interviews with 1,008 adult Americans conducted by telephone by ORC International on August 5-7, 2011. The margin of sampling error for results based on the total sample is plus or minus 3 percentage points. The sample also includes 930
interviews among registered voters
(plus or minus 3 percentage
points).

The sample includes 808 interviews among landline respondents
and 200 interviews among cell phone respondents

If I'm reading that correctly, 930 out of the 1008 people they interviewed were registered to vote.

378 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:33:55pm

Farewell to Nancy Wake, "The White Mouse" of WWII

For the remainder of the war she was involved in ambushing German convoys and destroying bridges and railway lines. When 10 men in her camp refused to perform their water-carrying duties she persuaded them by emptying a bucket over each. She interrogated a woman spy and ordered her execution, but saved two girls she considered innocent.

She was also on a raid that destroyed the Gestapo’s headquarters in Montluçon, leaving 38 Germans dead. It was, she wrote later, “the most exciting sortie I ever made. I entered the building by the back door, raced up the stairs, opened the first door along the passage way, threw in my grenades and ran like hell.”

On her 32nd birthday — shortly after the liberation of Paris — her Maquis comrades paraded in her honour at the chateau they had appropriated for their headquarters. “When we were fighting we were fighting,” she said “When we weren’t we were having a jolly good time. I never was scared.”


(see also...)

When I first met her for the Herald at her Port Macquarie apartment in April 2000, I raised the subject of whether she would accept an honour from the Australian Government. "No," she said with a ferocity that shocked me. "The last time there was a suggestion of that I told the government they could stick their medals where the monkey stuck his nuts. The thing is, if they gave me a medal now, it wouldn't be given with love, so I don't want anything from them."

379 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:34:00pm

100deg in the shade in ABQ....again
no rain

380 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:34:28pm

re: #374 albusteve

worse yet, it's childish and makes the signees look like a bunch 3rd graders...join our groovy new club!...you get a sticker and the sekrit handjob...er handshake

Yep, that's a good point as well Steve.

381 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:34:32pm

re: #346 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, not quite! You're not supposed to strike your children (or students) on Tisha B'Av or the 9 days preceding it.

[Link: www.jewfaq.org...]

Traditional Jewish interpretation of the Hebrew Bible (and, after all, who else is qualified to interpret it?) says that

Similarly, it is clearly stated in Shulchan Oruch (245:10) that in extreme situations, if it is clear to the teacher after trying less extreme measures, that only corporal punishment will be effective, he is permitted to gently hit the child. How much more so should he be permitted to confiscate the student's objects! The student's possessions should be no worse than the student's body.

However, the Pischei Teshuva (245:4) and the Teshuvos Shvus Yaakov (vol. 3, ch. 140) both say that if a teacher were to hit the child any harder than he has to, and inflict injury, he is obligated to pay damages, like any person who assaults another.


see [Link: www.torah.org...]

In my 48 years of studying Torah, from a range of teachers across the religious spectrum, I have never heard that it's generally OK to hit a child. It's always highly qualified.

382 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:34:51pm

re: #373 Lidane

What would you rather it say? Cut all taxes for everybody and get rid of all the social safety nets?

I'd rather it would accept the restructuring of Medicare to make it solvent. But again, since its "All Adults" it isn't a good gauge of voter behavior, since it contains many people who won't be voting and hence don't matter politically.

383 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:36:11pm

re: #382 Dark_Falcon

I'd rather it would accept the restructuring of Medicare to make it solvent. But again, since its "All Adults" it isn't a good gauge of voter behavior, since it contains many people who won't be voting and hence don't matter politically.

Would you accept closing loopholes that allow some major corporations to have negative income taxes?

384 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:36:23pm

re: #377 Lidane

BTW, reading the actual PDF of the poll results, the very first page says this:

If I'm reading that correctly, 930 out of the 1008 people they interviewed were registered to vote.

That I had not seen. That does change things somewhat. Please forgive my #382, which was written before I had read your post.

385 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:36:34pm

re: #378 negativ

Farewell to Nancy Wake, "The White Mouse" of WWII


(see also...)

I just got done completing a video game loosely based off the life of Violette Szabo. Recently read an article about a couple of women retirees who played major roles in the OSS. Brave women. It was also hard not to think of my nana when I read about Nancy Wake since they were born the same year and I tried to imagine my Nana being an operative against the Nazis. She wasn't since she was raising my Dad's older siblings but it was fun to pretend.

386 Lidane  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:36:34pm

re: #382 Dark_Falcon

I'd rather it would accept the restructuring of Medicare to make it solvent. But again, since its "All Adults" it isn't a good gauge of voter behavior, since it contains many people who won't be voting and hence don't matter politically.

Except that nearly every respondent in that poll is registered to vote.

387 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:37:02pm

It's either "tax the rich" (from the left) or "no new taxes" from the right.

How about raising every bracket, from 15% to 35% by one percentage point? After all, we all got ourselves into this mess (well, I had nothing to do with it, but I'm being generous.) Shouldn't we all pay?

388 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:37:12pm

re: #383 Varek Raith

Would you accept closing loopholes that allow some major corporations to have negative income taxes?

In principal, yes. But we'd need to see what loopholes you're talking about.

389 Olsonist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:40:26pm

re: #388 Dark_Falcon

In principal, yes. But we'd need to see what loopholes you're talking about.

Conservatives are often big on flat taxes. Would you be in favor of a flat corporate tax?

390 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:40:50pm

re: #388 Dark_Falcon

I would love to know the combination of events that led to this nonsense.
Image: corporate_taxes.png

391 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:42:07pm

re: #346 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rage...taking...over...

Barton: beating kids with a rod should be legal because its in the Bible

ASSHOLE!

There are a number of things in the Bible that we may not want, as a society, to adopt.

Many of them are things BARTON doesn't want to adopt, so he should watch his ass.

392 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:42:19pm

re: #388 Dark_Falcon

Here are some things that can immediatly be done:
1. Undo "Obama's" 2% cut of the employee's portion of the SS tax. There's no need for this

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

2. Get rid of the Mortgage Interest Deduction. This is just plain silly.

3. Repeal the "Deadbeat Specuvestors Tax Relief Act" and make people pay income tax on forgiven mortgage debt. This was a trillion dollar handout!

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

4. Get rid of the tax _credit_ for sending your kids to summer camp

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

That should be a good start!

393 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:43:23pm

re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist

There are a number of things in the Bible that we may not want, as a society, to adopt.

Many of them are things BARTON doesn't want to adopt, so he should watch his ass.

I, personally, could care less about shellfish. I don't eat it.

I do like a nice cotton-poly blend, though.

394 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:43:28pm

re: #357 HappyWarrior

And just when you think David Barton couldn't be any more of an asshole, he advocates beating children. Is there any biblical verse that justifies breaking the noses of pompous gasbags?

I'm sure we can find something appropriate. PJ O'Rourke found all these verses about golf, so there must be something.

395 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:44:06pm

re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist

Many of them are things BARTON doesn't want to adopt, so he should watch his ass.

That should be easy, since that mother-fucker shows it every time he opens his stupid fucking pie hole!

396 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:44:16pm

re: #394 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm sure we can find something appropriate. PJ O'Rourke found all these verses about golf, so there must be something.

11th Commandment : Thou shalt not be a douche.

397 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:45:10pm

Considering yesterday's conversation, this tweet is interesting.

muskhalili mustafa khalili by wozzablog
sikh community showing solidarity with muslim community outside ashmere palace on dudley rd #birmingham #ukriots

398 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:45:24pm

re: #381 reuven

Well, not quite! You're not supposed to strike your children (or students) on Tisha B'Av or the 9 days preceding it.

[Link: www.jewfaq.org...]

Traditional Jewish interpretation of the Hebrew Bible (and, after all, who else is qualified to interpret it?) says that


see [Link: www.torah.org...]

In my 48 years of studying Torah, from a range of teachers across the religious spectrum, I have never heard that it's generally OK to hit a child. It's always highly qualified.

Yeah, but these guys are literalists, meaning that they only use their interpretation, and the verses that they like.

Talmud doesn't enter into it.

399 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:45:32pm

A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts

really?

if you believe this, please go and find one example of an "intellectual" or member of the "political class" telling people that they are entitled to a high standard of consumption irrespective of personal efforts

this has been yet another edition of Fun With Strawmen

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:46:38pm

re: #393 EmmmieG

I, personally, could care less about shellfish. I don't eat it.

I do like a nice cotton-poly blend, though.

Cotton-poly is OK. Wool and linen are the only specified forbidden blend.

I'm just thinking about Barton's reaction to a jubilee year.

401 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:46:58pm

re: #391 SanFranciscoZionist

There are a number of things in the Bible that we may not want, as a society, to adopt.

Many of them are things BARTON doesn't want to adopt, so he should watch his ass.

But they're in the Bible! They keep telling us you can't pick and choose what they pick and choose!

402 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:47:28pm

re: #393 EmmmieG

I, personally, could care less about shellfish. I don't eat it.

I do like a nice cotton-poly blend, though.

SINNER!

403 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:48:37pm

re: #400 SanFranciscoZionist

Cotton-poly is OK. Wool and linen are the only specified forbidden blend.

I'm just thinking about Barton's reaction to a jubilee year.

I'm in favor of jubilee years. We just have to announce it fifty years ahead. Springing it on people would, um...pretty much wreck the world economy.

(Mormons had a jubilee year in 1880. The church forgave a certain debt that some people owed for their trip out to Utah. I don't know if anything else happened. The church wasn't very wealthy in 1880.)

404 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:50:03pm

re: #401 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But they're in the Bible! They keep telling us you can't pick and choose what they pick and choose!

But they still do pick and choose.

And they aren't literalists, they're just part of a interpretive tradition that chooses to believe their interpretations are the plain meaning of the text.

And they annoy me.

From Slacktivist's comments: "If you believe that every word of the bible is to be taken literally, except for 'wine' and 'to seven churches in Asia', you just might be a premillenial dispensationalist."

405 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:50:19pm

re: #399 engineer dog

A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts

really?

if you believe this, please go and find one example of an "intellectual" or member of the "political class" telling people that they are entitled to a high standard of consumption irrespective of personal efforts

this has been yet another edition of Fun With Strawmen

Yes, really. Any time work requirements or benefit cuts are proposed, the left goes nuts. In the UK, they clearly do believe that people should be able to live without working.

406 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:50:44pm

I'm sitting here doing research on colonial recipes, and it's amazing the number of recipes that involve days, not hours.

Although I will admit I stop reading at the first mention of cabbage.

407 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:51:15pm

re: #382 Dark_Falcon

since it contains many people who won't be voting and hence don't matter politically.

oh?

408 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:53:01pm

re: #392 reuven

Here are some things that can immediatly be done:
1. Undo "Obama's" 2% cut of the employee's portion of the SS tax. There's no need for this

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

2. Get rid of the Mortgage Interest Deduction. This is just plain silly.

3. Repeal the "Deadbeat Specuvestors Tax Relief Act" and make people pay income tax on forgiven mortgage debt. This was a trillion dollar handout!

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

4. Get rid of the tax _credit_ for sending your kids to summer camp

[Link: www.irs.gov...]

That should be a good start!

Nice ideas but...
1) With jobs and employment lagging I don;t think it's a good time for that.
2) With the housing market in the shitter and forclosures swamping the market I think we need to encourage people to stay in their homes and make it easier for people who might be on the brink of foreclosing. A good idea for down the road but not now.
3) eh
4) not much savings
Reapealing the Bush tax cuts for top earners makes much more sense. They will hardly notice it. Maybe they'll turn down the thermastats on their heated olypic sized swimming pools but that's not much of a hardship. They can endure it.

409 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:53:09pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

Yes, really. Any time work requirements or benefit cuts are proposed, the left goes nuts. In the UK, they clearly do believe that people should be able to live without working.

Middles class wages have been stagnant for the past 30 years. Corporations profits have gone up dramatically. I thought people were supposed to be rewarded for their hard work of making said corporations so profitable.

410 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:54:16pm

Random question- what is "Workforce Housing"? I just looked at the Wiki quickly, and it appears to be for families who have jobs, decent incomes, but are priced out of the area that they work.

NOT low income housing of the public kind.

Is that right? A development next to my new house is supposedly include WF amongst office space.

411 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:54:25pm

re: #409 Varek Raith

Middles class wages have been stagnant for the past 30 years. Corporations profits have gone up dramatically. I thought people were supposed to be rewarded for their hard work of making said corporations so profitable.

Yes, but these people aren't working. So your argument does not track.

412 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:54:33pm

re: #408 Killgore Trout

Nice ideas but...
1) With jobs and employment lagging I don;t think it's a good time for that.
2) With the housing market in the shitter and forclosures swamping the market I think we need to encourage people to stay in their homes and make it easier for people who might be on the brink of foreclosing. A good idea for down the road but not now.
3) eh
4) not much savings
Reapealing the Bush tax cuts for top earners makes much more sense. They will hardly notice it. Maybe they'll turn down the thermastats on their heated olypic sized swimming pools but that's not much of a hardship. They can endure it.

I say shut down the Dept of Ed...not a very popular notion tho, but the downdings are soothing

413 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:54:54pm

re: #405 Dark_Falcon

Yes, really. Any time work requirements or benefit cuts are proposed, the left goes nuts. In the UK, they clearly do believe that people should be able to live without working.

find an actual quote

that justifies this:

A population thinks (because it has often been told so by intellectuals and the political class) that it is entitled to a high standard of consumption, irrespective of its personal efforts

you know, dark, the idea that there are people who are entitled to some standard of living without any effort on their part is not an item of progressive policy

414 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:55:53pm

re: #410 TampaKnight

Random question- what is "Workforce Housing"? I just looked at the Wiki quickly, and it appears to be for families who have jobs, decent incomes, but are priced out of the area that they work.

NOT low income housing of the public kind.

Is that right? A development next to my new house is supposedly include WF amongst office space.

In San Francisco we call that 'Affordably Priced Housing', but I think it's the same thing. And, yes, it's for working people who can't afford to live near where their work is needed.

415 Olsonist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:55:54pm

re: #412 albusteve

I say shut down the Dept of Ed...not a very popular notion tho, but the downdings are soothing

I say shut down the Dept of Steve...a very popular notion and the updings are nice

416 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:55:57pm

re: #408 Killgore Trout

Reapealing the Bush tax cuts for top earners makes much more sense. They will hardly notice it. Maybe they'll turn down the thermastats on their heated olypic sized swimming pools but that's not much of a hardship. They can endure it.

I'd rather see EVERYONE's taxes rise. We all need to feel like we're stakeholders.

417 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:56:05pm

re: #412 albusteve

I say shut down the Dept of Ed...not a very popular notion tho, but the downdings are soothing

Can the savings be used to bring back French and Home Ec at my daughter's school? Then I'm all for it.

418 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:56:48pm

re: #393 EmmmieG

I, personally, could care less about shellfish. I don't eat it.

I do like a nice cotton-poly blend, though.

Cotton-poly blends are kosher. So are cotton-wool and cotton-linen.

It's only woolen-linen blend that's not allowed. One reason is that Cain's sacrifice was flax and Abel's was wool.

419 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:56:50pm

re: #416 reuven

I'd rather see EVERYONE's taxes rise. We all need to feel like we're stakeholders.

Capital gains, first

420 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:57:15pm

re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist

In San Francisco we call that 'Affordably Priced Housing', but I think it's the same thing. And, yes, it's for working people who can't afford to live near where their work is needed.

Thanks. My neighbors are in an uproar, thinking it's low income housing, but I told them that it sounds much more like a program for working people with pretty good incomes who simply can't afford to live where they work.

My neighbors had images of the projects going up next door.

421 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:57:24pm

that people should be able to live without working

well, there are a number of people who are living off of capital gains or stock profits, when most of us are hard at work keeping the economy that makes that possible going

did you mean them?

422 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:57:28pm

re: #410 TampaKnight

Random question- what is "Workforce Housing"? I just looked at the Wiki quickly, and it appears to be for families who have jobs, decent incomes, but are priced out of the area that they work.

NOT low income housing of the public kind.

Is that right? A development next to my new house is supposedly include WF amongst office space.

That's pretty much it. I think it's a very good idea to make cities more livable. Americans waste enormous amounts of time and money commuting from the suburbs every day.

423 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:57:45pm

re: #415 Olsonist

I say shut down the Dept of Steve...a very popular notion and the updings are nice

LOL!

424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:57:52pm

re: #421 engineer dog

that people should be able to live without working

well, there are a number of people who are living off of capital gains or stock profits, when most of us are hard at work keeping the economy that makes that possible going

did you mean them?

ahahaha of course not!

425 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:58:16pm

re: #398 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, but these guys are literalists, meaning that they only use their interpretation, and the verses that they like.

Talmud doesn't enter into it.

If these guys are such literalists, why don't they wear tefillin on their heads and fringes on their garments?

They're really litteralists--shredding up G-D's words and tossing it in the gutter.

426 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:58:29pm

re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist

Exactly! Lawmakers keep house prices artificially propped up (by keeping interest rates artificially low, enacting laws to stop foreclosures, and things like the mortgage interest deduction.) If they raised interest rates, streamlined foreclosures, and got rid of the mortgage interest deduction, house prices would drop, and normal people would be able to afford housing without government support.

I have no idea why most people on the left and the right want to keep house prices propped up. (And yes, I'm a homeowner! I just believe in fairness and affordable housing.)

427 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:58:54pm

re: #416 reuven

I'd rather see EVERYONE's taxes rise. We all need to feel like we're stakeholders.

Eventually but now is not the time to raise taxes on the lower income brackets. The Bush tax cuts were meant to be temporary and won't last forever.

428 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 2:59:01pm

re: #418 Alouette

Cotton-poly blends are kosher. So are cotton-wool and cotton-linen.

It's only woolen-linen blend that's not allowed. One reason is that Cain's sacrifice was flax and Abel's was wool.

Well, wool itches and I think linen does too.

So, I'm good.

Bring back literal Biblical laws.

I think I owe someone a pair of turtledoves or something for the birth of my daughter 16 years ago.

(I will confess that there have been a couple of times the last year I might just have been willing to give you the daughter instead.)

429 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:00:14pm

re: #420 TampaKnight

Thanks. My neighbors are in an uproar, thinking it's low income housing, but I told them that it sounds much more like a program for working people with pretty good incomes who simply can't afford to live where they work.

My neighbors had images of the projects going up next door.

Never heard 'Workforce' before, but it sounds like the same thing.

They;ll calm down when they see the actual neighbors, I expect.

430 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:01:33pm

re: #414 SanFranciscoZionist

In San Francisco we call that 'Affordably Priced Housing', but I think it's the same thing. And, yes, it's for working people who can't afford to live near where their work is needed.

Bring back the Company Town.
//

431 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:01:50pm

re: #429 SanFranciscoZionist

Never heard 'Workforce' before, but it sounds like the same thing.

They;ll calm down when they see the actual neighbors, I expect.

We're in Florida, so everyone is touchy. Property values have been absolutely slaughtered.

432 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:02:19pm

re: #430 Alouette

Bring back the Company Town.
//


Work for me!
I'll pay you in Fun Bucks.

/

433 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:03:00pm

re: #428 EmmmieG

There are exactly 613 laws in the Hebrew Bible.

365 of these are "negative commandments". You can fulfill these by simply not doing anything!

For example, so far I have not violated this law:

Not to sell a beautiful woman, (taken captive in war) (Deut. 21:14) (negative).

As a nation, we can start with #5

Not to profane G-d's name (Lev. 22:32) (CCN155). See The Name of G-d.

and take his name off our money!

(There's a LOT of commentary on how these 613 mitzvot are to be observed. Please don't read this list and think that's what Jews do. It's only the tip of the iceburg.)

434 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:03:10pm

re: #429 SanFranciscoZionist

Never heard 'Workforce' before, but it sounds like the same thing.

They;ll calm down when they see the actual neighbors, I expect.

Dunno--they might be dirty and drive crappy pick-ups.

435 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:04:49pm

re: #432 Varek Raith

Can I take my compensation in Bun... never mind.

436 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:05:42pm

re: #431 TampaKnight

We're in Florida, so everyone is touchy. Property values have been absolutely slaughtered.

I got lucky and don't need to own property anymore....but I can sure empathize

437 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:08:08pm

re: #436 albusteve

They weren't slaughtered! They had been grossly inflated!

I have property in central Florida. Things are very bad there. There are boarded-up homes that have never been occupied. About 25% of the homes are empty. Many of them will never be sold. There's too much inventory. They'll have to be bulldozed.

438 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:09:12pm

re: #430 Alouette

Bring back the Company Town.
//

No one wants that. But in some cases the company owning the housing is the only way it can get workers who live nearby.

439 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:10:22pm

re: #438 Dark_Falcon

No one wants that. But in some cases the company owning the housing is the only way it can get workers who live nearby.

Even easier if they own the workers.

440 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:11:08pm

re: #438 Dark_Falcon

No one wants that. But in some cases the company owning the housing is the only way it can get workers who live nearby.

I, personally, am all for bringing back the company town if it's going to be like Hershey, Pennsylvania.

Maybe owning a chocolate company just makes you a nice person.

441 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:11:19pm

The cat just sat on the laptop, and now I cannot get back in--the keyboard doesn't work to type the password.

Thoughts about what he might have done?

442 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:11:25pm

re: #438 Dark_Falcon

No one wants that. But in some cases the company owning the housing is the only way it can get workers who live nearby.

One thing about living in the Detroit area--housing is cheap and most commutes are 30 minutes or less.

The downside is that I could never sell my house for enough to move anywhere else.

443 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:11:42pm

Well, I think I'm in the right place.

I was just on a Pages and thought I was on the front page.

dah.

How is everyone?

444 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:12:32pm

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

The cat just sat on the laptop, and now I cannot get back in--the keyboard doesn't work to type the password.

Thoughts about what he might have done?

Locked out the account

445 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:13:15pm

re: #437 reuven

They weren't slaughtered! They had been grossly inflated!

I have property in central Florida. Things are very bad there. There are boarded-up homes that have never been occupied. About 25% of the homes are empty. Many of them will never be sold. There's too much inventory. They'll have to be bulldozed.

what a crazy phenom...I never guessed it would come to this, as an advocate of less....sprawl, growth, development etc

446 Bubblehead II  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:13:51pm

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

Stuck Key perhaps.

447 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:13:58pm

Good News! We're saved!
Palin bus tour to roll into Iowa

448 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:14:24pm

re: #426 reuven

Exactly! Lawmakers keep house prices artificially propped up (by keeping interest rates artificially low, enacting laws to stop foreclosures, and things like the mortgage interest deduction.) If they raised interest rates, streamlined foreclosures, and got rid of the mortgage interest deduction, house prices would drop, and normal people would be able to afford housing without government support.

I have no idea why most people on the left and the right want to keep house prices propped up. (And yes, I'm a homeowner! I just believe in fairness and affordable housing.)

keeping houseing prices high means people won't be upside down in their mortgages. Too many people overpaid for their houses and still have the mortgage to pay-off.

449 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:15:02pm

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

The cat just sat on the laptop, and now I cannot get back in--the keyboard doesn't work to type the password.

Thoughts about what he might have done?

Better question--what did you do to offend your feline overlord?

450 McSpiff  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:15:15pm

re: #438 Dark_Falcon

No one wants that. But in some cases the company owning the housing is the only way it can get workers who live nearby.

See Churchill Falls, Canada.

Company owned town that supports one of the world's largest hydro stations. Workers don't pay rent, and the cost of food is subsidized down to what other workers pay at more accesible locations. I believe delivery from some department stores is also covered by the company.

Without nalcor owning the town, the hydrostation simply wouldn't be possible. Full stop.

451 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:15:40pm

re: #441 SanFranciscoZionist

The cat just sat on the laptop, and now I cannot get back in--the keyboard doesn't work to type the password.

Thoughts about what he might have done?

You obviously did something to provoke this reaction from your Cat Overlord. I'd repent and make an offering of herring as quickly as possible

452 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:16:03pm

OKm back in business,

This effing cat is not even my cat,m and yet it is lying eith its head and paws on my keyboard, and it doesn;'t matter how many times I pick him up and move him.

Ack.

453 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:16:12pm

re: #449 EmmmieG

Better question--what did you do to offend your feline overlord?

Existing?
/

454 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:16:51pm

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

OKm back in business,

This effing cat is not even my cat,m and yet it is lying eith its head and paws on my keyboard, and it doesn;'t matter how many times I pick him up and move him.

Ack.

Cayenne Pepper.

455 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:17:01pm

re: #451 ggt

You obviously did something to provoke this reaction from your Cat Overlord. I'd repent and make an offering of herring as quickly as possible

I wouldn't share my tuna sub earlier.

Also, I took the wrapping away from him when he began eating it.

I suck.

456 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:17:35pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't share my tuna sub earlier.

Also, I took the wrapping away from him when he began eating it.

I suck.

You are really walking on thin ice.

Just sayin . . .

457 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:17:42pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't share my tuna sub earlier.

Also, I took the wrapping away from him when he began eating it.

I suck.

You are an evil person.
/

458 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:17:58pm

re: #448 ggt

I overpaid for 100 shares of XOM. It's now worth 10% less than I paid. Should the Government help me out?

It's not healthy or rational for housing prices to rise faster than wage inflation. Why would you want to perpetuate that so some people can feel like they had a good return on their "investment?"

459 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:18:54pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't share my tuna sub earlier.

Also, I took the wrapping away from him when he began eating it.

I suck.

toss it out to go eat a lizard....you gotta ignore a cat as much as it ignores you...then you might have a decent relationship....unless you need to sleep with your declawed, lap cat

460 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:19:21pm

re: #457 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You are an evil person.
/

I'm not used to being the servant of a cat yet.

Luckily, his regular staff are coming back on Sunday.

The dogs, meanwhile, hate us. I mean, they love us because we bring food, but we washed themyesterday, and now they're traumatized.

461 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:19:37pm

re: #456 ggt

You are really walking on thin ice.

Just sayin . . .


Image: funny-pictures-evil-cat-creates-nightmares.jpg

462 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:19:57pm

re: #458 reuven

I overpaid for 100 shares of XOM. It's now worth 10% less than I paid. Should the Government help me out?

It's not healthy or rational for housing prices to rise faster than wage inflation. Why would you want to perpetuate that so some people can feel like they had a good return on their "investment?"

XOM has been one of my best performers. Even with this horrendous downturn, my positions are still on average up 8% and they pay a nice dividend.

463 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:20:25pm

re: #458 reuven

I overpaid for 100 shares of XOM. It's now worth 10% less than I paid. Should the Government help me out?

It's not healthy or rational for housing prices to rise faster than wage inflation. Why would you want to perpetuate that so some people can feel like they had a good return on their "investment?"

votes....every American deserves a house no matter what....an epic pandering scheme started by Clinton

464 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:20:56pm

re: #458 reuven

I overpaid for 100 shares of XOM. It's now worth 10% less than I paid. Should the Government help me out?

It's not healthy or rational for housing prices to rise faster than wage inflation. Why would you want to perpetuate that so some people can feel like they had a good return on their "investment?"

I was just commenting on why people want housing prices to go up. I wasn't making a judgement.

465 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:22:02pm

re: #462 TampaKnight

I bought a block on 5/19/2011. That's what's down!

466 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:22:51pm

re: #465 reuven

I bought a block on 5/19/2011. That's what's down!

Feel better- everything is down.

467 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:23:15pm

Wang Up, Wang Down

468 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:23:20pm

re: #447 Killgore Trout

Good News! We're saved!
Palin bus tour to roll into Iowa

Can we just set up a cage match between her and Bachmann? I'd be a big hit on pay-per-view.

469 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:23:29pm

re: #454 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cayenne Pepper.

Cats have been known to claw their own eyes out because of that stuff, so... use your own discretion.

470 Varek Raith  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:23:32pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't share my tuna sub earlier.

Also, I took the wrapping away from him when he began eating it.

I suck.

Image: funny-pictures-dante-kittehs.jpg

471 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:24:14pm

re: #463 albusteve

Clinton didn't start this. And all politicians are guilty! McCain said, during one of the debates in Florida that he wanted the government(!) to buy underwater mortgages from seniors!

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

472 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:24:26pm

re: #469 Slumbering Behemoth

Cats have been known to claw their own eyes out because of that stuff, so... use your own discretion.

Never heard of them doing that.

473 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:24:37pm

re: #460 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm not used to being the servant of a cat yet.

Luckily, his regular staff are coming back on Sunday.

The dogs, meanwhile, hate us. I mean, they love us because we bring food, but we washed themyesterday, and now they're traumatized.

Cats are great. Every human should be own by one!

474 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:25:07pm

re: #466 TampaKnight

Feel better- everything is down.

even the Beatles...
how can you laugh?

475 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:26:28pm

Can human society, as we know it, survive without an enemy?

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:26:37pm

re: #473 Dark_Falcon

Cats are great. Every human should be own by one!

It's funny. My husband and I are total dog people, but we;re paying a lot of attention to the cat we're sitting, because the dogs are whippets. Total airheads, are the dogs.

477 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:26:53pm

re: #466 TampaKnight

Actually, I did OK today!

FSMVX +6.74%
SLV +5.85%
IAU +3.55%
GLD +3.54%
FINPX +2.26%
FGOVX +0.64%
FSTFX +0.19%

478 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:27:25pm

re: #471 reuven

Clinton didn't start this. And all politicians are guilty! McCain said, during one of the debates in Florida that he wanted the government(!) to buy underwater mortgages from seniors!

[Link: articles.latimes.com...]

I blame Clinton for all kinds of stuff....I believe FM/FM were put together under his leadership...

479 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:27:56pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

It's funny. My husband and I are total dog people, but we;re paying a lot of attention to the cat we're sitting, because the dogs are whippets. Total airheads, are the dogs.

oh, can't whippets be cuddly tho?

I like cuddly.

480 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:28:01pm

re: #472 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know I read it somewhere on the interwebs. I still use it to keep cats out of the yard, though.

481 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:28:20pm

re: #480 Slumbering Behemoth

I know I read it somewhere on the interwebs. I still use it to keep cats out of the yard, though.

Then it must be true.

:)

482 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:29:03pm

re: #480 Slumbering Behemoth

I know I read it somewhere on the interwebs. I still use it to keep cats out of the yard, though.

They make a spray or liquid you can use to lace an area, not the powder.

483 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:31:22pm

re: #479 ggt

oh, can't whippets be cuddly tho?

I like cuddly.

They're neurotic, but sweet. They really want their real people back.

484 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:31:29pm

re: #480 Slumbering Behemoth

I know I read it somewhere on the interwebs. I still use it to keep cats out of the yard, though.

get a .22, use it

485 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:31:30pm

re: #482 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Mothballs work well too.

486 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:32:43pm

re: #484 albusteve

Can't discharge a firearm in an incorporated area. Now, if I lived in the country...

487 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:32:54pm

re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist

They're neurotic, but sweet. They really want their real people back.

I new an Italian Greyhound once--she could have powered 1/2 of Chicago with her anxiety. Very, Very sweet, but needed to be run and I mean RUN every day. Little shit could go FAST.

If she stood still she shook. The only time she wasn't shaking is if she was running or asleep.

488 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:33:03pm

re: #447 Killgore Trout

Good News! We're saved!
Palin bus tour to roll into Iowa

Oh lord. And Perry's expected to also try and draw attention to himself by announcing in South Carolina/A Southern Experience State on Saturday.

The GOP is just showbiz. They always were but now this is all they have, a bunch of bigot drama queenss trying to steal each other's thunder. Dumb, blowholes....their stupid constituents deserve every misery coming to them.

489 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:33:05pm

re: #483 SanFranciscoZionist

They're neurotic, but sweet. They really want their real people back.

I never saw any breed sail through the air to catch a Frisbee like a whippet....unreal how high and far they can leap

490 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:33:36pm

re: #484 albusteve

get a .22, use it

BLASPHEMER!

Repent, the Cat Overlord may be merciful.

491 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:33:44pm

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

Can't discharge a firearm in an incorporated area. Now, if I lived in the country...

make a silencer...
spit
spit

492 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:34:37pm

re: #455 SanFranciscoZionist

I wouldn't share my tuna sub earlier.

Also, I took the wrapping away from him when he began eating it.

I suck.

Image: funny-pictures-today-password-iz-back-rub.jpg

493 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:34:38pm

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

OKm back in business,

This effing cat is not even my cat,m and yet it is lying eith its head and paws on my keyboard, and it doesn;'t matter how many times I pick him up and move him.

Ack.

LOL.
Welcome to my world.

What's even more fun: When I'm trying to work with my stained glass, the cat thinks she needs to help me.
Image: photo_2_2.JPG

494 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:35:31pm

re: #491 albusteve

make a silencer...
spit
spit

That'll get you 10 years in federal prison.

495 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:36:28pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

That'll get you 10 years in federal prison.

AND the Cat Overlord will be waiting for you when you get out . . .

496 Kragar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:36:42pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

That'll get you 10 years in federal prison.

And no cats...

497 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:37:17pm

re: #496 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And no cats...

Only in your nightmares.

498 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:38:08pm

re: #494 Dark_Falcon

That'll get you 10 years in federal prison.

no it won't...getting caught will
a man has a right to defend his castle

499 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:38:59pm
500 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:39:50pm

re: #498 albusteve

no it won't...getting caught will
a man has a right to defend his castle

Cat Overlord has a top-notch attorney. I don't think you'd have a chance in court.

501 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:43:07pm
502 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:43:16pm

re: #500 ggt

My cat is very well behaved. Your cat must hate you for some reason.

Image: 732561274_d1145d17ba_b.jpg

(My cat, Betty)

503 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:43:33pm

My prediction to come out of this "Deficit Commission": top marginal rates return to 39.6%, the entire system is overhauled and rates are then lowered when deductions are removed. Defense spending is cut $100B beyond Obama's recommendation to $500B total. SS age is raised. A level of cuts and reforms are made in SS and Medicare.

Corporate tax rate is reduced to 25% with the "loopholes" removed.

504 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:44:05pm

Mkay. The "colonial" recipe book contains the following punch recipe:

5 gallons water
1/2 gallon molasses
1 quart vinegar
2 ounces ginger

Someone else be a doll and try this out for me, would you?

505 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:44:35pm
506 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:44:54pm

I'm predicting the next outrageous outrage - The President will not cancel his vacation, but will go on vacation despite the economy.

Remember folks: Y'all saw it here first.

507 sod  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:45:31pm

re: #505 ggt

Holy shit!

508 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:45:32pm

BBL

509 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:45:59pm

re: #504 EmmmieG

Mkay. The "colonial" recipe book contains the following punch recipe:

5 gallons water
1/2 gallon molasses
1 quart vinegar
2 ounces ginger

Someone else be a doll and try this out for me, would you?

What's "molasses"?

just kidding. And otherwise in answer to your question - no.

510 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:47:38pm

re: #507 sod

Holy shit!

"Jump out of helicopter --sure, whatever you want me to do, I'm there, right by your side!"

511 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:50:38pm

re: #509 reine.de.tout

What's "molasses"?

just kidding. And otherwise in answer to your question - no.

I don't understand the vinegar part of the recipe.

512 sod  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:51:06pm

re: #510 ggt

I love dogs and that pic definitely rocks.

513 Olsonist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:51:49pm

re: #503 TampaKnight

They already kicked the can down the road to a magic deficit commission, this after already having had a bipartisan deficit commission. Instead, nothing will happen since this super commission will be meeting during the year long silly season of the Presidential election cycle. Hey, they may even be meeting in front of TV cameras!

Stalemate. Again.

514 laZardo  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:53:09pm

re: #452 SanFranciscoZionist

OKm back in business,

This effing cat is not even my cat,m and yet it is lying eith its head and paws on my keyboard, and it doesn;'t matter how many times I pick him up and move him.

Ack.

:3

515 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:53:46pm

re: #512 sod

I love dogs and that pic definitely rocks.

I like the shoulder patch on #16 too!

516 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:53:51pm

This cookbook was written in 1907 and contains numerous racist thoughts as well as glowing, fawning descriptions of the high-born* Southern belles that supposedly contribute the recipes.

Except--did any woman in the Washington, Marshall, or Carroll family actually cook anything? I'm beginning to wonder whose recipes these were. I highly doubt that George Washington's granddaughter spent three days making pickled fruit or this thing called Chow Chow.

*As in, last names found in US history books

517 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:54:04pm

re: #513 Olsonist

They already kicked the can down the road to a magic deficit commission, this after already having had a bipartisan deficit commission. Instead, nothing will happen since this super commission will be meeting during the year long silly season of the Presidential election cycle. Hey, they may even be meeting in front of TV cameras!

Stalemate. Again.

congress couldn't find it's own ass with both hands

518 TampaKnight  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:54:35pm

re: #513 Olsonist

They already kicked the can down the road to a magic deficit commission, this after already having had a bipartisan deficit commission. Instead, nothing will happen since this super commission will be meeting during the year long silly season of the Presidential election cycle. Hey, they may even be meeting in front of TV cameras!

Stalemate. Again.

Not this time. The people, on both sides, are too pissed off and fed up with the government to allow them to go into stalemate.

And, if stalemate happens, then it sets off a series of absolutely mindless and dangerous set of defense cuts and Medicare cuts, and does absolutely nothing else.

519 compound idaho  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 3:56:56pm

re: #517 albusteve

congress couldn't find it's own ass with both hands

I don't know why. It is just above their shoulders.

520 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:01:21pm

re: #504 EmmmieG

Mkay. The "colonial" recipe book contains the following punch recipe:

5 gallons water
1/2 gallon molasses
1 quart vinegar
2 ounces ginger

Someone else be a doll and try this out for me, would you?

That's not punch, exactly, it's proto-Gatorade.

521 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:02:35pm

re: #516 EmmmieG

This cookbook was written in 1907 and contains numerous racist thoughts as well as glowing, fawning descriptions of the high-born* Southern belles that supposedly contribute the recipes.

Except--did any woman in the Washington, Marshall, or Carroll family actually cook anything? I'm beginning to wonder whose recipes these were. I highly doubt that George Washington's granddaughter spent three days making pickled fruit or this thing called Chow Chow.

*As in, last names found in US history books

They sat at their dining room tables telling their "servants" to follow the recipe exactly. Servants rolled their eyes and said "yes'um"

522 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:03:03pm

re: #520 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not punch, exactly, it's proto-Gatorade.

Well, I was thinking "nasty," but I guess I shouldn't read a book like this so soon after reading "The Help."

523 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:04:31pm

New GOP Strategy Involves Reelecting Obama, Making His Life Even More Miserable

WASHINGTON—Calling a GOP victory in the 2012 presidential election antithetical to the party platform, top Republicans revealed a new long-term political strategy Tuesday: reelecting Barack Obama and making his life even more of a living hell than it already is.

"For three years, the Republican Party has coalesced around the single goal of making President Obama's every waking moment sheer and utter torture," Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell told reporters. "But we can't continue to do that if he's not in office."

"If we are going to make the president a haggard shell of a human being by the time he leaves the White House, we need four more years of never compromising, four more years of miring every piece of legislation in unnecessary procedural muck, four more years of pretending we want to work with the president and then walking away from the table at the last second," McConnell added. "Four more years! Four more years! Obama 2012!"

524 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:05:46pm

anyone know a good site for learning Quickbooks 2011?

525 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:06:16pm

re: #511 ggt

I don't understand the vinegar part of the recipe.

Drinks with vinegar in them go back to the ancient Greeks, at least, and continued to be popular for a very long time.

526 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:07:00pm

re: #525 SanFranciscoZionist

Drinks with vinegar in them go back to the ancient Greeks, at least, and continued to be popular for a very long time.

to make bad water safe?

ewwww

527 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:07:55pm

re: #522 EmmmieG

Well, I was thinking "nasty," but I guess I shouldn't read a book like this so soon after reading "The Help."

I've tried things like this in their medieval form at various SCA events. It's actually not bad, just a flavor most modern people don't think of as going in a cold drink.

528 moderatelyradicalliberal  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:09:31pm

re: #364 Big Steve

Rick Perry...ahhh...(disclaimer here, I worked on Bill White's campaign against Perry). Rick Perry is one of the most nasty smart politicians around. In that regard, he is a right side version of Bill Clinton. He knows how to run a campaign and IS NOT gaff prone. He is the MOST vindictive politician you will ever find. If you oppose Rick Perry anywhere down the line, he will not forgot. If you befriend him, as in give him money, he will do almost anything for you. Do not kid yourself one bit, if he is nominated, he will be formidable.

I agree with you about Perry's meaness and that he's relatively smart, but he is no Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton learned how to appeal to moderates because he was a Southern Democrat, Rick Perry on the other hand has always have the luxury of running for governor of a blood red state. If Jesus ran for election in Texas as a Democrats most white Texas would stop being Christians. Perry has been hard right for a long time and I don't think he has the ability to move to the middle with a natural ease. He has the reverse problem that Mitt Romney has who can't make a convincing move to the tea party right enough to make the base of the GOP accept him. I could be wrong, but I don't think those videos of him calling for secession in front of a crown of teabaggers will make him popular any where above the Mason-Dixon Line.

529 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:10:00pm

re: #520 SanFranciscoZionist

That's not punch, exactly, it's proto-Gatorade.

I have a customer who makes his own sports beverage using molasses, powdered milk, and some salt in water. Sounds nutritious and disgusting.

530 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:10:41pm

re: #526 ggt

to make bad water safe?

ewww

Yes, and also for the citric acid--the ancient Mediterreanean vinegar was usually wine vinegars, and to restore electrolytes when working and swearing--and because, honestly, they liked the taste.

The vinegar offered to Christ on the cross was probably a drink made with verjuice.

531 Olsonist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:11:29pm

re: #518 TampaKnight

Not this time. The people, on both sides, are too pissed off and fed up with the government to allow them to go into stalemate.

I don't see that at all. Partisan divide, yes. Unified voice saying fix this now, no.
If anything, we are rewarding political bickering.

And, if stalemate happens, then it sets off a series of absolutely mindless and dangerous set of defense cuts and Medicare cuts, and does absolutely nothing else.

Nope. I hate to sound like a teabagger, but one Congress can never limit a future Congress without a Congressional amendment. So that series of absolutely mindless and dangerous defense cuts and Medicare cuts is just an empty promise to be filed with last year's New Year's resolutions.

532 darthstar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:11:53pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

The vinegar offered to Christ on the cross was probably a drink made with verjuice.

It comes in handy when you need to deglaze your savior for a sauce.

533 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:12:20pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and also for the citric acid--the ancient Mediterreanean vinegar was usually wine vinegars, and to restore electrolytes when working and swearing--and because, honestly, they liked the taste.

The vinegar offered to Christ on the cross was probably a drink made with verjuice.

I hate vinegar. I can't imagine anything tasting good with vinegar.

534 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:14:04pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and also for the citric acid--the ancient Mediterreanean vinegar was usually wine vinegars, and to restore electrolytes when working and swearing--and because, honestly, they liked the taste.

The vinegar offered to Christ on the cross was probably a drink made with verjuice.

pimf. Working and SWEATING.

535 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:14:13pm

re: #533 ggt

I hate vinegar. I can't imagine anything tasting good with vinegar.

Lettuce? Pasta?

536 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:14:14pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

and to restore electrolytes when working and swearing

That sure makes me thirsty!

537 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:15:22pm

re: #535 EmmmieG

Lettuce? Pasta?

NO, I choose the least acidic salad dressing and use them sparingly. The only vinegar I've had luck with on Pasta is Rice Vinegar.

538 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:16:04pm

re: #533 ggt

I hate vinegar. I can't imagine anything tasting good with vinegar.

Basalmic vinegar goes well with mozzarella, olive oil, tomato, and basil.

539 darthstar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:16:14pm

re: #533 ggt

I hate vinegar. I can't imagine anything tasting good with vinegar.

Kale salad...just a touch of white basalmic with the olive oil, lemon juice, salt & pepper...

540 darthstar  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:17:14pm

re: #534 SanFranciscoZionist

pimf. Working and SWEATING.

I'm usually swearing...even when I'm not fuckin' working.

541 albusteve  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:17:24pm

re: #531 Olsonist

I don't see that at all. Partisan divide, yes. Unified voice saying fix this now, no.
If anything, we are rewarding political bickering.

Nope. I hate to sound like a teabagger, but one Congress can never limit a future Congress without a Congressional amendment. So that series of absolutely mindless and dangerous defense cuts and Medicare cuts is just an empty promise to be filed with last year's New Year's resolutions.

of course...face time, sound bytes and style rule politics...it's an AmIdol thing where the pols round up support based on hairstyle or cool shoes and the voters love it...voters have little clue about actual issues but they sure dig Palins glasses

542 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:17:50pm

swearing and sweating go together.

543 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:18:34pm

Vinegar is good for cleaning!

544 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:20:23pm

re: #488 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh lord. And Perry's expected to also try and draw attention to himself by announcing in South Carolina/A Southern Experience State on Saturday.

The GOP is just showbiz. They always were but now this is all they have, a bunch of bigot drama queenss trying to steal each other's thunder. Dumb, blowholes...their stupid constituents deserve every misery coming to them.

Not all of us in Texas voted for Pointy Boots, but we still get to suffer.

Democracy!

545 compound idaho  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 4:27:58pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, and also for the citric acid--the ancient Mediterreanean vinegar was usually wine vinegars, and to restore electrolytes when working and swearing--and because, honestly, they liked the taste.

The vinegar offered to Christ on the cross was probably a drink made with verjuice.

Electrolytes?

Brondo! It has what the body craves.

546 reine.de.tout  Wed, Aug 10, 2011 5:17:14pm

re: #511 ggt

I don't understand the vinegar part of the recipe.

I didn't understand any of that recipe. Except maybe the water.


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