ADL Statement on ‘Pernicious’ Shariah Conspiracy Theories

Abe Foxman calls out the Bigot Brigade
Opinion • Views: 35,549

Here’s an excellent opinion piece by Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, calling on Americans to shout down the Sharia myth makers.

NEW YORK (JTA) — The threat of the infiltration of Sharia, or Islamic law, into the American court system is one of the more pernicious conspiracy theories to gain traction in our country in recent years. The notion that Islam is insidiously making inroads in the United States through the application of religious law is seeping into the mainstream, with even some presidential candidates voicing fears about the supposed threat of Sharia to our way of life and as many as 13 states considering or having already passed bills that would prohibit the application of Sharia law.

Louisiana and Tennessee were among the first to approve such measures. The bills were based on model legislation issued by the American Public Policy Alliance, an unabashedly anti-Muslim advocacy group that defends the legislation as seeking to “protect American citizens’ constitutional rights against the infiltration and incursion of foreign laws and foreign legal doctrines, especially Islamic Sharia Law.”

When the legislation was introduced in the Tennessee state Senate in early 2010, the bill defined Sharia as a “legal political military doctrine and system adhered to, or minimally advocated by, tens of millions of not hundreds of millions of its followers around the world.” In defense of the bill, state Sen. Bill Ketron said it “deals solely with a single part of Sharia that is strictly political in nature,” and “in no way inserts itself into the religious laws of Islam.”

The language was nearly identical to that of similar bills considered in other states, some of which were thinly disguised in terms of protecting against “the application of foreign law.”

All of this anti-Sharia activity has come despite the complete absence of evidence of the unconstitutional application of foreign or religious law in our judicial system. It has also come with a great deal of political handwringing — and myth making — about the threat of Sharia overtaking this country. This has led, in turn, to a false perception among a growing number of Americans that Sharia is a very real threat to our way of life and constitutional freedoms.

In fact, these legislative efforts are the proverbial solution in search of a problem. The separation of church and state embodied in U.S. and state constitutions prohibits our courts from applying or considering religious law in any way that would constitute government advancement of or entanglement with religious law.

But the anti-Sharia bills are more than a matter of unnecessary public policy. These measures are, at their core, predicated on prejudice and ignorance. They constitute a form of camouflaged bigotry that enables their proponents to advance an idea that finds fault with the Muslim faith and paints all Muslim Americans as foreigners and anti-American crusaders.

Read the whole thing.

Jump to bottom

278 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:25:49am

Foxman is really going after this hard. Good on him.

2 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:27:08am

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Foxman is really going after this hard. Good on him.

Yes. Too bad he wasn't as vocal on the whole Park51 thing.

3 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:29:31am

Sorry I was absent. I just got back from Salem, where we were protesting a pending law to make it legal to stone people who failed to pray while facing Mecca five times a day.

What's going on again?

//

4 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:30:22am

We still have the "Sharia law lady" here in Lubbock. She shows up at every city council meeting and uses her allotted 30 seconds to rail against the threat of Muslim infiltration. The council pointedly ignores her, then goes about its real business. This has been going on for months.

5 jaunte  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:31:03am
"complete absence of evidence of the unconstitutional application of foreign or religious law in our judicial system"


Despite reams of paranoid rabble-rousing.

6 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:31:16am

Pfff, just like the Jews who collaborated with Hitler.

///

7 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:31:48am

So if Christians can petition to stop Mosques from getting built, does that mean Agnostics and Atheists can petition to keep Churches from getting built?

8 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:32:11am

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So if Christians can petition to stop Mosques from getting built, does that mean Agnostics and Atheists can petition to keep Churches from getting built?

YOU'RE PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS, YOU'RE A SOVIET SPY!

9 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:32:27am

re: #5 jaunte

Despite reams of paranoid rabble-rousing.

WE NEED TO YELL LOUDER SO PEOPLE BELIEVE US!

10 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:33:04am

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Heathen! Witch! Burn 'em! /

11 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:33:11am

re: #2 000G

Yes. Too bad he wasn't as vocal on the whole Park51 thing.

Yep no doubt.

12 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:33:18am

re: #8 HappyWarrior

YOU'RE PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS, YOU'RE A SOVIET SPY!

The proud nation of Kragaristan is not communist.

13 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:33:52am

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So if Christians can petition to stop Mosques from getting built, does that mean Agnostics and Atheists can petition to keep Churches from getting built?

They can, but not with any likelihood of success.

14 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:34:08am

re: #10 lawhawk

Heathen! Witch! Burn 'em! /

WHERE?!

15 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:34:54am

Breaking news, Frank Gaffney accuses Foxman of being a seekrit Brother Muslimhood!

16 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:35:41am

re: #15 000G

Breaking news, Frank Gaffney accuses Foxman of being a seekrit Brother Muslimhood!

As I said yesterday, I can't wait for Frank to discover that he's in the Muslim Brotherhood. Oh it will be fun/.

17 Targetpractice  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:36:17am

And before the danger of "creeping sharia," it was the danger of communist infiltration. What next?

18 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:36:36am

Report from "Sharia Ground Zero" in Dearbornistan.

I have discovered not one, but TWO Israeli flags prominently displayed, one in front of Ford World Headquarters (yeah, that Ford, that was established by that old Protocols-loving Henry), and another one in front of SME (Society of Manufacturing Engineers) on Ford Road.

19 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:37:04am

re: #13 Shiplord Kirel

They can, but not with any likelihood of success.

That doesn't seem fair. They keep telling us its a local issue. Its like they're saying there should be one set of rules for them and another set for everyone else.

/snark engines set to max

20 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:37:07am

Breaking news, Pamela Geller accuses Foxman of being a Jewicidal Jew!

21 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:37:23am

re: #2 000G

Yes. Too bad he wasn't as vocal on the whole Park51 thing.

Yep, the loons won that battle. They successfully sold the public on the concept of a "victory mosque" and stoked fears with talk of the supposed "terrorist funding" the project had while too many of the sane folks either stayed on the defensive or watched from the sidelines.

22 Lidane  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:38:14am

How soon before the Shrieking Harpy says that the ADL are Muslim agents working to bring Sharia Law to the United States?

23 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:38:58am

re: #22 Lidane

How soon before the Shrieking Harpy says that the ADL are Muslim agents working to bring Sharia Law to the United States?

Give her time, I am sure she's been to the ABC store.

24 Neutral President  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:40:52am

re: #1 HappyWarrior

Foxman is really going after this hard. Good on him.

He needed to show this kind of backbone over "Teh Ground Zer0 MEGAMOSQUE!!1!11ty" rather than roll over to the same bigots pushing this creeping sharia bullshit.

25 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:42:31am

re: #21 Atlas Fails

Yep, the loons won that battle. They successfully sold the public on the concept of a "victory mosque" and stoked fears with talk of the supposed "terrorist funding" the project had while too many of the sane folks either stayed on the defensive or watched from the sidelines.

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

26 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:43:32am

re: #17 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And before the danger of "creeping sharia," it was the danger of communist infiltration. What next?

Life just isn't complete without a boogeyman of one sort or another under the bed.

Afternoon, Lizards!

27 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:44:09am

re: #22 Lidane

How soon before the Shrieking Harpy says that the ADL are Muslim agents working to bring Sharia Law to the United States?

She has her own category for "jewish traitors abetting the muslim enemy": "Jewicidal Jews", a term just as bigotted and hateful as "Israel-firster".

28 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:44:14am

Yes, good for Foxman and the ADL.

29 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:45:22am

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

Well, yes, Christians would get to build a church in the area.

30 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:46:40am

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

What?!? But I though Brevik wasn't a Christian! After all, know one who believes in Jesus would commit such an act.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:46:45am

re: #2 000G

Yes. Too bad he wasn't as vocal on the whole Park51 thing.

I suspect that may have been a learning experience for him. He didn't like the Park 51 idea for whatever reason, he found there were others opposing it, he allied with them--and then he realized "HOLY FUCKING SHIT, who are these people?"

That's my current theory for what may have happened.

32 Batman  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:46:51am

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

How true. Ask the native americans.

33 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:46:59am

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

So Rush agrees that if people don't want a Church to be built, they can say so.

34 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:47:04am

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

Am I a bad person for wanting someone to give Limbaugh a good ass kicking? I am sorry but I am sick of this guy using the airwaves to say nasty shit like this.

35 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:47:19am

re: #30 Atlas Fails

What?!? But I though Brevik wasn't a Christian! After all, know one who believes in Jesus would commit such an act.

No true Christian...

36 Tumulus11  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:49:00am
'The bills were based on model legislation issued by the American Public Policy Alliance, an unabashedly anti-Muslim advocacy group that defends the legislation as seeking to 'protect American citizens’ constitutional rights against the infiltration and incursion of foreign laws and foreign legal doctrines, especially Islamic Sharia Law.'


. This will put an end to those subversive Ishtar ceremonies at the White House. /

37 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:49:12am

re: #33 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So Rush agrees that if people don't want a Church to be built, they can say so.

His basic point is that under the hypothesis that Breivik was a Christian Terrorist (which he doesn't agree with, it's just a hypothesis, this is a rhetorical trick Limbaugh often uses to make Liberals' heads explode) and if Norway was like the US, then Breivik would get to build a church at the site of his slaughter, because, don't you see, the muslim terrorists get to build a mosque at Ground Zero.

38 laZardo  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:49:17am

re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So if Christians can petition to stop Mosques from getting built, does that mean Agnostics and Atheists can petition to keep Churches from getting built?

And Christians can petition to stop Starbucks for being built for the atheists.

///

39 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:49:20am

re: #17 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And before the danger of "creeping sharia," it was the danger of communist infiltration. What next?

Creeping scientism.

40 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:49:53am

re: #30 Atlas Fails

What?!? But I though Brevik wasn't a Christian! After all, no one who believes in Jesus would commit such an act.

41 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:50:15am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

I suspect that may have been a learning experience for him. He didn't like the Park 51 idea for whatever reason, he found there were others opposing it, he allied with them--and then he realized "HOLY FUCKING SHIT, who are these people?"

That's my current theory for what may have happened.

He found out, just in the nick of time, that the same people who are against Sharia, can be against halachah as well.

42 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:51:05am

re: #39 b_sharp

Creeping scientism.

Do wingnuts in the departments of cultural studies get to complain about infiltration by empiricists?

43 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:51:51am

I am sorry if I sounded like I condoned violence against Limbaugh there. Violence isn't the answer but man oh man I am just sick and tired of that bigoted asshole using tragedies like this to make cheap political points. I mean goddamn, 70 people died because of Brevik's actions. He's a murderer pure and simple and a terrorist.

44 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:52:24am

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

I think there's already a church, or at least a chapel, on the island. The Evangelical Lutheran church is the established state religion of Norway. Only 20% of Norwegians say religion occupies an important place in their lives, however, and there is complete freedom of worship.

45 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:52:42am

re: #15 000G

Breaking news, Frank Gaffney accuses Foxman of being a seekrit Brother Muslimhood!

I clicked that, honestly not knowing if Frank had said that about Abe or not.

Such are the times.

46 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:52:42am

re: #42 000G

Do wingnuts in the departments of cultural studies get to complain about infiltration by empiricists?

Yup.
And the nihilists get to petition against the materialists and pragmatists.

47 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:53:02am

re: #17 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And before the danger of "creeping sharia," it was the danger of communist infiltration. What next?

...

Creeping MILITANT! atheism is taking over America!!11ty

48 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:54:00am

re: #47 Gus 802

...

Obviously. There are even more atheists than Muslims. True story.

49 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:54:13am

re: #43 HappyWarrior

I don't think the sick thing for him to do was to make a point. The sick thing was that he basically said that the people who wanted to build Park51 were the same people who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11.

50 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:54:51am

re: #46 b_sharp

Yup.
And the nihilists get to petition against the materialists and pragmatists.

Feyerabend becomes the new Alinsky!

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:54:56am

Whenever you make a statement about another faith, you should be sure that you would be willing to make the same statement about your own faith.

For example, I have no problem saying that men in the FLDS church who have sex with underage girls should go to jail, because I would say the same thing about my own faith (or any other).

I would also say that Muslims should be allowed to practice their faith without harassment, because I would say the same thing about my own faith, or any other.

52 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:54:57am

re: #48 Shiplord Kirel

Obviously. There are even more atheists than Muslims. True story.

Yep. Read about it in World Net Daily.

//

53 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:54:58am

re: #48 Shiplord Kirel

Obviously. There are even more atheists than Muslims. True story.

First, you get your secular atheism, then you get your Islamic theocracy. Newt told me.

54 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:55:04am

re: #47 Gus 802

...

Evilution is teh Devil's tool

55 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:56:00am

re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

First, you get your secular atheism, then you get your Islamic theocracy. Newt told me.

As an atheist, let me just say that I would just loves me some Islamic theocracy.

//

56 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:56:03am

re: #48 Shiplord Kirel

Obviously. There are even more atheists than Muslims. True story.

Muslims have creeping sharia law, scientists have creeping laws of nature!

57 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:56:26am

re: #49 000G

I don't think the sick thing for him to do was to make a point. The sick thing was that he basically said that the people who wanted to build Park51 were the same people who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11.

Well, yes, that's why I think he deserves a good ass kicking. Imam Rauf, his wife, and their congregants had 0 to do with 9-11. It's just sick and maddening. It would be one thing if Rush didn't have so much influence but he has tons of it.

58 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:57:01am

re: #50 000G

Feyerabend becomes the new Alinsky!

Just wait until they notice the Existentialists and the Phenomenologists.

59 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:57:29am

re: #55 Gus 802

As an atheist, let me just say that I would just loves me some Islamic theocracy.

//

In bed.

60 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:57:58am

re: #59 b_sharp

In bed.

When you're hot you're hot.

//

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:58:23am

re: #37 000G

His basic point is that under the hypothesis that Breivik was a Christian Terrorist (which he doesn't agree with, it's just a hypothesis, this is a rhetorical trick Limbaugh often uses to make Liberals' heads explode) and if Norway was like the US, then Breivik would get to build a church at the site of his slaughter, because, don't you see, the muslim terrorists get to build a mosque at Ground Zero.

His analogy falls apart because in it all Muslims are one group, and Breivik is one group.

But Rush isn't interested in crafting a good argument. He's more in the Abuse department.

62 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:58:27am

re: #57 HappyWarrior

Sorry, in #43 you seemed to say the thing that angered you was Rush having used Breivik's murder spree to make a point. That didn't bother me. What bothered me was the specific point Rush was making, not that he was making a point.

63 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:59:02am

Foxman said, "If the hysteria over Sharia law continues to percolate through our political and social discourse, there is bound to be unintended consequences."

I say, you don't know whether they intended those consequences or not.

Also, "are", not "is".

64 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 11:59:23am

re: #60 Gus 802

When you're hot you're hot.

//

And when you're not, you're on a cooling trend for the past 15 years.

Shit, I crossed the streams again. I hate it when I do that.

65 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:00:04pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

His analogy falls apart because in it all Muslims are one group, and Breivik is one group.

But Rush isn't interested in crafting a good argument. He's more in the Abuse department.

Oh, you wanted an argument, that's the next office over.

66 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:00:14pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

Foxman said, "If the hysteria over Sharia law continues to percolate through our political and social discourse, there is bound to be unintended consequences."

I say, you don't know whether they intended those consequences or not.

Also, "are", not "is".

But what is is?

67 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:00:59pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

Foxman said, "If the hysteria over Sharia law continues to percolate through our political and social discourse, there is bound to be unintended consequences."

I say, you don't know whether they intended those consequences or not.

Also, "are", not "is".

The intended consequences are there. That being to create or further inflame a holy war of sorts. That's much of what's motivating the irrational talk from the anti-Islam pundits and politicians.

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:01:09pm

re: #49 000G

I don't think the sick thing for him to do was to make a point. The sick thing was that he basically said that the people who wanted to build Park51 were the same people who flew planes into the WTC on 9/11.

Yup. Because Muslims are one group.

Christians act autonomously.

Also, we hear Mohammed was a war leader.

You see?

///

69 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:01:22pm

re: #66 b_sharp

But what is is?

IS

70 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:01:35pm

re: #62 000G

Sorry, in #43 you seemed to say the thing that angered you was Rush having used Breivik's murder spree to make a point. That didn't bother me. What bothered me was the specific point Rush was making, not that he was making a point.

All good. Should have clarified that it was the cheap shot that bothered me. I hope he sleeps well at night knowing that Karma's gonna bite him in the ass one day.

71 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:01:43pm

Clinton's in the house?

//

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:02:24pm

re: #55 Gus 802

As an atheist, let me just say that I would just loves me some Islamic theocracy.

//

Well, when Muslim's pray, they do say "There is no God..."

SEE??!!!!

///

73 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:02:29pm

re: #71 Gus 802

Clinton's in the house?

//

HELL YEAH HE IS!

74 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:02:55pm

re: #73 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HELL YEAH HE IS!

[Video]

George?

75 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:03:49pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, when Muslim's pray, they do say "There is no God..."

SEE??!!!

///

Muslims. Not Muslim's. Coffee. I need more of it.

76 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:03:53pm

re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist

Yup. Because Muslims are one group.

Christians act autonomously.

Also, we hear Mohammed was a war leader.

You see?

///

Jesus was a rabble-rouser and community organizer who violently attacked independent entrepreneurs engaged in lawful commerce. Didn't he understand that capitalism and Christianity are one and the same?
-channeling David Barton

77 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:03:54pm

I firmly believe that Limbaugh and the others would have engaged in the same crap if discriminating against Jews and Catholics was more easy to get away with in this country.

78 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:04:03pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, when Muslim's pray, they do say "There is no God..."

SEE??!!!

///

One thing that should be taught in high school English classes. Beware the ellipses. They can have evil intent.

79 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:04:19pm

re: #59 b_sharp

In bed.

I had a girlfriend in Moscow named Galina Gaidarovna Fetkhetdinovna. Half Tatar. Told me that her surname means "The Triumph of Islam" in Tatar.

All I could say was "Jeeeeee-had, baby!"

80 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:05:22pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

His analogy falls apart because in it all Muslims are one group, and Breivik is one group.

But Rush isn't interested in crafting a good argument. He's more in the Abuse department.

Rush's underlying argument is basically that if his surface argument is valid, then you will have to concede either that a) Breivik was not a christian terrorist (so you reject the "Breivik was a christian terrorist" hypothesis I described above as being a true premise), or that b) the people behind Park51 are indistinct from the people behind 9/11.

Carefully ignoring to acknowledge that nobody stepped forward and accused all Christians of being terrorists.

81 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:05:32pm

re: #76 Shiplord Kirel

Jesus was a rabble-rouser and community organizer who violently attacked independent entrepreneurs engaged in lawful commerce. Didn't he understand that capitalism and Christianity are one and the same?
-channeling David Barton

I've got no problem with Jesus, but his fan club is a bunch of assholes.

82 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:06:25pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

I firmly believe that Limbaugh and the others would have engaged in the same crap if discriminating against Jews and Catholics was more easy to get away with in this country.

Oh, they're still willing to target Jews and others when they think they can get away with it.

83 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:07:06pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

All good. Should have clarified that it was the cheap shot that bothered me. I hope he sleeps well at night knowing that Karma's gonna bite him in the ass one day.

There is no karma. He will continue to make lots of money and one day die from a heart attack as a rich man who had a happy life.

84 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:07:42pm

re: #78 EmmmieG

One thing that should be taught in high school English classes. Beware the ellipses. They can have evil intent.

Is an ellipsis one dot or three dots?

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:08:21pm

re: #79 ralphieboy

I had a girlfriend in Moscow named Galina Gaidarovna Fetkhetdinovna. Half Tatar. Told me that her surname means "The Triumph of Islam" in Tatar.

All I could say was "Jeee-had, baby!"

Does anyone recall the scene in "Reds" where John Reed realizes that his beautiful speech about communism is actually being translated into a call for Jihad?

They're out in the 'stans somewhere, and the translator is going with what resonates locally.

86 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:08:28pm

re: #79 ralphieboy

I had a girlfriend in Moscow named Galina Gaidarovna Fetkhetdinovna. Half Tatar. Told me that her surname means "The Triumph of Islam" in Tatar.

All I could say was "Jeee-had, baby!"

Tasteless comment coming up.

You loved eating pussy tartar didn't you?

(somebody slap me for that one)

87 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:08:43pm

re: #83 000G

There is no karma. He will continue to make lots of money and one day die from a heart attack as a rich man who had a happy life.

Maybe one more divorce first...

88 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:09:33pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

I firmly believe that Limbaugh and the others would have engaged in the same crap if discriminating against Jews and Catholics was more easy to get away with in this country.

Remember that part in the movie Borat where he started singing "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and many people were happy to sing along with him? That sticks in my mind. Much of the old antisemitism is alive and well in this country.

89 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:10:05pm

re: #86 b_sharp

Tasteless comment coming up.

You loved eating pussy tartar didn't you?

(somebody slap me for that one)


Consider yourself slapped with a wet haddock.

But yes, she was a saucy one.

90 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:10:09pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, they're still willing to target Jews and others when they think they can get away with it.

Case in point:
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

91 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:10:12pm

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh, they're still willing to target Jews and others when they think they can get away with it.

I don't know. Can't imagine Rush targeting Jews or Catholics the way he does Muslims. Now, I have seen some slam the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church isn't as know nothing on immigration as they'd like. As for the Jewish people, I can see it with Alex Jones but I can't with Limbaugh since he likes paintign himself as this friend of the Jewish people.

92 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:10:48pm

re: #84 wrenchwench

Is an ellipsis one dot or three dots?

Well, checking on grammar girl, it would look like "..." is an ellipsis, where as multiples of those would be ellipses.

Of course, if you have dots all the way across your screen, the keyboard's stuck.

93 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:11:19pm

re: #90 000G

Case in point:
[Link: mediamatters.org...]
[Link: mediamatters.org...]

Yeah I guess you guys are right. My bad.

94 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:11:20pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

See 90.

95 laZardo  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:11:49pm

re: #88 Gus 802

96 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:11:54pm

re: #88 Gus 802

Remember that part in the movie Borat where he started singing "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and many people were happy to sing along with him? That sticks in my mind. Much of the old antisemitism is alive and well in this country.

Yeah you're right.

97 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:12:44pm

Yeah guys I guess I didn't give it much thought. Geller, Limbaugh, what a pathetic duo the both of them.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:12:45pm

re: #92 EmmmieG

Well, checking on grammar girl, it would look like "..." is an ellipsis, where as multiples of those would be ellipses.

Of course, if you have dots all the way across your screen, the keyboard's stuck.

Or the cat has sat down.

99 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:13:03pm

re: #92 EmmmieG

Of course, if you have dots all the way across your screen, the keyboard's stuck.

That is known as a Total Ellipse.

100 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:13:22pm

re: #86 b_sharp

Tasteless comment coming up.

You loved eating pussy tartar didn't you?

(somebody slap me for that one)

Another slap is coming. I'm still winding up in preparation.

101 laZardo  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:13:47pm

re: #99 ralphieboy

That is known as a Total Ellipse of the Heart.

/watch out, here it comes

102 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:14:10pm

re: #99 ralphieboy

That is known as a Total Ellipse.

The solution is to turn around, bright eyes.

103 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:14:36pm

re: #91 HappyWarrior

As for the Jewish people, I can see it with Alex Jones but I can't with Limbaugh since he likes paintign himself as this friend of the Jewish people.

Alex Jones' fans maybe, himself not so much (check out the comments on the YouTube pages for these vids):

But Jones has become more and more of an anti-zionist lately.

104 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:14:48pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

It's Slapsgiving! The slaps... they just keep on giving.

105 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:15:19pm

re: #88 Gus 802

Remember that part in the movie Borat where he started singing "Throw the Jew Down the Well" and many people were happy to sing along with him? That sticks in my mind. Much of the old antisemitism is alive and well in this country.

I remember that scene in the movie, but the people who were singing along were so falling-down drunk they had no freaking idea what they were singing. I'm sure there were plenty of outtakes with at least half sober people. At least I hope there were.

106 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:15:20pm

re: #102 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The solution is to turn around, bright eyes.


I can just feel my backlit hair being blown by unseen winds as shadows move ominously in the background...

107 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:15:27pm

re: #101 laZardo

/watch out, here it comes

Hey look... its Bonnie Tyler...OH SHIT! NINJAS!

108 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:15:34pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

Hey, ww: I ran across this last night and you immediately came to mind, so I saved it. ;)

109 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:15:42pm

I suddenly find myself unable to up or downding.

110 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:15:56pm

re: #103 000G

Alex Jones' fans maybe, himself not so much (check out the comments on the YouTube pages for these vids):

[Video]But Jones has become more and more of an anti-zionist lately.

I thought Jones was always anti Zionism. But yeah I've seen comments like those before. Pretty amazing how nasty people get with the whole anonymity of the internet thing.

111 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:16:08pm

re: #77 HappyWarrior

I firmly believe that Limbaugh and the others would have engaged in the same crap if discriminating against Jews and Catholics was more easy to get away with in this country.

Sadly, too many Catholics have joined the wingnutosphere. Galvanized by radical anti-abortion groups like Operation Rescue and "decency" blowhards like Brent Bozell, a vocal minority of Catholics are now almost indistinguishable from the zealots on the Evangelical right. They've even developed a persecution complex, evidenced by the so-called Catholic League (aka, Bill Donahue and the voices in his head.)

Don't get me wrong, most Catholics are pretty sensible and a majority voted for and still support Obama, but we've got some obnoxious religious right wannabes.

112 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:17:44pm

re: #111 Atlas Fails

You have Catholics who disagree with the Pope on contraception but agree with him on evolution.

And those who agree with him on contraception and disagree with him on evolution...

113 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:17:49pm

re: #111 Atlas Fails

Sadly, too many Catholics have joined the wingnutosphere. Galvanized by radical anti-abortion groups like Operation Rescue and "decency" blowhards like Brent Bozell, a vocal minority of Catholics are now almost indistinguishable from the zealots on the Evangelical right. They've even developed a persecution complex, evidenced by the so-called Catholic League (aka, Bill Donahue and the voices in his head.)

Don't get me wrong, most Catholics are pretty sensible and a majority voted for and still support Obama, but we've got some obnoxious religious right wannabes.

I know. Some of my neighbors growing up were those times you talk about. I haev no idea why they ally themselves with Evangelicals. These are the same people who said if one of our own got in the White House, he'd let the Pope rule. I am an extremely soft Catholic but anti Catholicism bothers me and I mean real Anti Catholicism not harmless fun that Bill Donohue gets boiled up over.

114 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:18:03pm

re: #111 Atlas Fails

Sadly, too many Catholics have joined the wingnutosphere. Galvanized by radical anti-abortion groups like Operation Rescue and "decency" blowhards like Brent Bozell, a vocal minority of Catholics are now almost indistinguishable from the zealots on the Evangelical right. They've even developed a persecution complex, evidenced by the so-called Catholic League (aka, Bill Donahue and the voices in his head.)

Don't get me wrong, most Catholics are pretty sensible and a majority voted for and still support Obama, but we've got some obnoxious religious right wannabes.

How is it the religious right is so terribly wrong?

115 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:18:07pm

re: #105 Alouette

I remember that scene in the movie, but the people who were singing along were so falling-down drunk they had no freaking idea what they were singing. I'm sure there were plenty of outtakes with at least half sober people. At least I hope there were.

Could be. But I'm rather cynical having heard what I heard over the years from living in South Jersey and up until now. It's out there and it's rather common.

116 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:19:28pm

re: #114 b_sharp

How is it the religious right is so terribly wrong?

I blame their reference material.

117 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:19:52pm

re: #108 CuriousLurker

Hey, ww: I ran across this last night and you immediately came to mind, so I saved it. ;)

What a cute little rodent!

...and you thought of me...hmmm...

118 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:20:29pm

re: #109 b_sharp

I suddenly find myself unable to up or downding.

Maybe I shouldn't have slapped you quite so hard...

119 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:21:02pm

re: #117 wrenchwench

What a cute little rodent!

...and you thought of me...hmmm...

What drug is that mouse on?

120 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:21:41pm

re: #118 wrenchwench

Maybe I shouldn't have slapped you quite so hard...

That's OK, I've been fixed.

121 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:21:56pm

re: #117 wrenchwench

What a cute little rodent!

...and you thought of me...hmmm...

LOL! About 5 seconds after I hit the post button I thought, "Hmm, I ownder if that sounds like she reminds me of a cute rodent??"

122 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:22:26pm

re: #119 b_sharp

What drug is that mouse on?

Should be on Claritin. That's a sneeze he's working up to.

123 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:22:27pm

re: #110 HappyWarrior

I thought Jones was always anti Zionism. But yeah I've seen comments like those before. Pretty amazing how nasty people get with the whole anonymity of the internet thing.

No, in his youth and early radio days he was somewhat pro-Israel actually – something the more rabid antisemites among the conspiracy nuts love to use against him:

He even acknowledges now that he was, but says that he has basically seen how evil the Israeli government is (he is very careful to always make it about governments) and how much the rest of the world has been guilt-tripped into letting them get away with their evil doings etc…

124 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:23:18pm

Oookay. I hadn't watched the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart in a while. That is one creepy video.

125 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:23:21pm

re: #123 000G

No, in his youth and early radio days he was somewhat pro-Israel actually – something the more rabid antisemites among the conspiracy nuts love to use against him:

[Video]He even acknowledges now that he was, but says that he has basically seen how evil the Israeli government is (he is very careful to always make it about governments) and how much the rest of the world has been guilt-tripped into letting them get away with their evil doings etc…

Shows what I know man. Interesting.

126 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:24:06pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

Oookay. I hadn't watched the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart in a while. That is one creepy video.

I liked the Dan Band's version in Old School. That was funny. That whole movie is my favorite Will Ferrell especially now that I've been to frat parties though not a frat brother myself.

127 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:24:06pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

Oookay. I hadn't watched the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart in a while. That is one creepy video.

No one ever believes me about the ninjas.

128 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:25:03pm

re: #116 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I blame their reference material.

I blame their gullibility.

129 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:25:10pm

Dow +489
Nice.

130 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:25:39pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Dow +489
Nice.

Like a hooker's underwear...

131 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:26:19pm

Oh, crud. I was going to buy stock this morning.

Oh well, I'll wait until tomorrow. It'll be down again.

132 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:26:22pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Dow +489
Nice.

Basically where it closed at on Tuesday.

Madness.

133 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:27:12pm

Corn poll
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
Bachman wins!
Ron Paul's jar is missing

134 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:29:32pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Corn poll
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
Bachman wins!
Ron Paul's jar is missing

Image: 128822372358287992.jpg

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:30:53pm

So, I look at the pictures from Nordstrom's "Print Mixing Made Easy" ad, and I think to myself, "Yes, if I were twenty, black, six feet tall, a size zero, wearing a buzz cut, and stunning, I might be able to wear a pink abstract floral blouse with a blue and purple pattern paired with a gold-brown animal print skirt and get away with it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get away with it, or even try it, in my actual condition. She looks beautiful, albeit weirdly dressed. I'm just going to look insane."

136 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:31:11pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Corn poll
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
Bachman wins!
Ron Paul's jar is missing

Heh, I bet Paulbots smuggled corn in to stuff the jar.

137 blueraven  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:31:34pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Dow +489
Nice.

But insane!!


Yesterday, fears over banks in France were driving much of the sell off. The Daily Fail seems to be part of the problem by printing an un-sourced rumor. Today they apologized.

An apology from the Daily Mail? How about firing someone? Much of the cause of yesterday's (Wednesday's) decline was a plunge in French banks.

Sunday's London Daily Mail said that French bank Societe Generale was in a "perilous" state and possibly on "the brink of disaster." They cited no sources.

SocGen's CEO was forced to go on our air yesterday with Bill Griffeth and Maria Bartiromo to deny that the company was going under. He was apoplectic.

The Daily Mail of London issued an apology to Societe Generale:

"We now accept that this was not true and we unreservedly apologise to Société Générale for any embarrassment caused," they said.

We have spoken before about the responsibility of the media to avoid outright rumormongering. The Daily Mail failed big time on this one.


[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

138 Neutral President  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:35:42pm

re: #111 Atlas Fails

Sadly, too many Catholics have joined the wingnutosphere. Galvanized by radical anti-abortion groups like Operation Rescue and "decency" blowhards like Brent Bozell, a vocal minority of Catholics are now almost indistinguishable from the zealots on the Evangelical right. They've even developed a persecution complex, evidenced by the so-called Catholic League (aka, Bill Donahue and the voices in his head.)

I've had direct experience with this. My ex-fiancee started as a lapsed catholic who was moderate on social issues except for abortion. Over a few years she went from that to being "almost indistinguishable from the zealots on the Evangelical right" on nearly every social and political issue and went to a church similar to SSPX. I tried to tell her those evangelical protestants that she's siding with will eventually turn on the Catholics when they are done with everyone else but she wouldn't hear it. This was one of the main reasons she is an "ex" now.

It was like going to bed with Terry Farrell and waking up with Randal Terry.

139 RadicalModerate  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:36:47pm

Well, the impossible (or at least, very highly improbable) finally happened today.

The stationary cool front stretching across the US actually made it to Dallas - and kept us below the 100 degree mark for the first time in 41 days - one day short of the all-time record.
Current temp is 87 degrees (and falling) with a northerly wind. No rain, but the cooler temperatures are welcome nonetheless.

It will be a short-lived respite, however, as the front is supposed to push back north later today and we will be back in the triple digits for the next 10+ days.

140 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:38:50pm

re: #139 RadicalModerate

Well, the impossible (or at least, very highly improbable) finally happened today.

The stationary cool front stretching across the US actually made it to Dallas - and kept us below the 100 degree mark for the first time in 41 days - one day short of the all-time record.
Current temp is 87 degrees (and falling) with a northerly wind. No rain, but the cooler temperatures are welcome nonetheless.

It will be a short-lived respite, however, as the front is supposed to push back north later today and we will be back in the triple digits for the next 10+ days.

Hmm. Trying to find some way to blame Radical Sekrit Muslims for this, and I can't see how it goes.

141 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:39:41pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

Oookay. I hadn't watched the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart in a while. That is one creepy video.

It has always been about the vampires.

142 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:41:14pm

re: #140 EmmmieG

Hmm. Trying to find some way to blame Radical Sekrit Muslims for this, and I can't see how it goes.

Easy:

[Link: www.google.com...]
[Link: www.google.com...]

143 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:41:41pm

+530

144 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:41:51pm

re: #137 blueraven

Even with the denials and the Daily Fail retraction, fact is that the French banks and institutions have significant exposure to Italian debt, so if the situation goes downhill there, it might be enough to bring low the French institutions - a cascade failure, which itself would lead to still more problems for those institutions that have French paper.

It's like a rabid dog chasing its own tail. The bad debt situations in places like Portugal, Ireland, Greece, and Spain gets bought up by solvent entities (countries, banks, investors), but when those situations go from bad to worse, all that paper gets downgraded as do those holding that paper, setting off another round of downgrades.

145 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:42:41pm

Man, googling for "muslims chemtrails" gives you really batshit insane results.

146 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:43:27pm

re: #145 000G

Man, googling for "muslims chemtrails" gives you really batshit insane results.

It's the falafel.
/

147 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:44:44pm

re: #137 blueraven

But insane!!

Yesterday, fears over banks in France were driving much of the sell off. The Daily Fail seems to be part of the problem by printing an un-sourced rumor. Today they apologized.


[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

Interesting, thanks, I hadn't seen that one yet. What a mess.

148 Neutral President  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:47:36pm

re: #145 000G

Man, googling for "muslims chemtrails" gives you really batshit insane results.

It makes me want to look up crap like "muslim illuminati" or "muslim nibiru 2012"

Probably wouldn't get any work done today if I managed to not have a breakdown from so much crazy at one time.

149 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:47:39pm

Shock over 'respectable' lives behind masks of UK rioters

Those passing through London's courtrooms on Tuesday and Wednesday -- some courts sat overnight to cope with the numbers -- have included a teaching assistant, a lifeguard, a postman, a chef, a charity worker, a millionaire's daughter and an 11-year-old boy, newspapers reported.


Nothing to do with poverty, oppression welfare, socialism, etc. Greedy stupid people, that is all.

150 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:48:50pm

re: #56 000G

Due to my age, my body has the creeping law of gravity.
/

151 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:49:14pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

I think the majority of them are going to be from the rougher and poorer areas. There certainly are some who just love to take advantage of chaos. A mob is an ugly thing.

152 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:53:59pm

re: #151 Obdicut

I think the majority of them are going to be from the rougher and poorer areas. There certainly are some who just love to take advantage of chaos. A mob is an ugly thing.

Unless it is a flash mob dancing. Then it can be a thing of joy and spontaneous beauty.

It's all about how you impact others.

153 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:58:01pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Shock over 'respectable' lives behind masks of UK rioters

Nothing to do with poverty, oppression welfare, socialism, etc. Greedy stupid people, that is all.

Opportunism at it's finest. Ugh.

The whole deal with the masks reminds me of internet trolls/stalkers. Makes me wonder which seemingly decent people I know might have a nasty Mr. Hyde that surfaces once they're sitting behind the safe anonymity of a keyboard.

154 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:58:36pm

Case in point: Catholic cozies up to teabaggers.

I love the pissed-off look Brent has in his columnist photo.

155 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 12:58:42pm

Hey, private prisons...what's the worst that could happen?

'Kids for cash' judge sentenced to 28 years for racketeering scheme

The federal indictment says the two judges accepted $2.8 million in kickbacks from the owner and builder of two privately-run juvenile detention facilities. In exchange, the judges agreed to close down the county’s own juvenile detention center, which would have competed with the new, privately-run facilities. In addition they guaranteed that juvenile offenders from their court would be directed to the privately-run facilities.

Mr. Conahan, pleaded guilty last year to a single count of racketeering and is awaiting sentencing.

In comments to the court, Ciavarella apologized to the community and to the children whose cases he had adjudicated. “I blame no one but myself for what happened,” he said, according to the Associated Press.

But the former judge rejected claims that he engaged in a "kids for cash" racketeering scheme.
He said prosecutors used the claim to sabotage his reputation prior to his trial. “Those three words made me the personification of evil,” he told the court, according to the Associated Press. “They made me toxic and caused a public uproar the likes of which this community has never seen.”

Ciavarella had a reputation as a no-nonsense jurist who would not hesitate to sentence young, first-time offenders to juvenile detention. He also gained a reputation as a judge prone to cut constitutional corners.

An investigation revealed that half of the children who appeared in his courtroom were not represented by a lawyer and were never advised of their right to counsel. Of those unrepresented children, up to 60 percent were ordered by Ciavarella to serve time at a detention facility.

156 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:00:57pm

re: #153 CuriousLurker

The whole deal with the masks reminds me of internet trolls/stalkers. Makes me wonder which seemingly decent people I know might have a nasty Mr. Hyde that surfaces once they're sitting behind the safe anonymity of a keyboard.

Image: internetdickwadsmall.jpg

157 Amory Blaine  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:01:37pm

Already do that. Kicked all my bigoted friends to the curb. It's been difficult and lonely to some degree but I can't take the stupid no more.

158 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:02:05pm

re: #156 publicityStunted

Image: internetdickwadsmall.jpg

LOL! Would that it weren't so true.

159 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:02:24pm

re: #153 CuriousLurker

I do see a sociological aspect at play with the riots that I haven't seen anyone bring up yet. We bombard young people with media images of "things" (merchandise, shoes, electronics, etc) and have raised a generation who thinks that these things are going to satisfy them and bring them happiness. It's a shallow and selfish consumerist mentality that is mostly to blame for the riots.

160 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:02:26pm

re: #124 EmmmieG

Oookay. I hadn't watched the video for Total Eclipse of the Heart in a while. That is one creepy video.

The mere thought of watching it scares me.

Jim Steinman wrote songs that seemed to last a year each.

161 TedStriker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:02:43pm

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

So, I look at the pictures from Nordstrom's "Print Mixing Made Easy" ad, and I think to myself, "Yes, if I were twenty, black, six feet tall, a size zero, wearing a buzz cut, and stunning, I might be able to wear a pink abstract floral blouse with a blue and purple pattern paired with a gold-brown animal print skirt and get away with it. But that doesn't mean I'm going to get away with it, or even try it, in my actual condition. She looks beautiful, albeit weirdly dressed. I'm just going to look insane."

Basically, if you were Grace Jones back in her prime...I could dig it ;-P

162 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:05:55pm

re: #158 CuriousLurker

LOL! Would that it weren't so true.

Actually, if websites that use Facebook commenting are any clue, the "anonymity" portion may no longer be - I was honestly flabbergasted when I first saw the kind of crap people posted, right alongside their real name and photo. So perhaps convenience + stupidity + audience is the better indicator :/

163 blueraven  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:07:40pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Interesting, thanks, I hadn't seen that one yet. What a mess.

I think the good news today, is that it was mostly driven by some positives from the US market, and not Europe so much. An unexpected drop in unemployment claims (a small drop, but under 400,000) also a lot of corporate buy backs.

Today was not nearly as volatile as the past few days.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:09:35pm

re: #149 Killgore Trout

Shock over 'respectable' lives behind masks of UK rioters


Nothing to do with poverty, oppression welfare, socialism, etc. Greedy stupid people, that is all.

Wait, I thought all the rioters were dead-eyed yoots from the underclass, who've never had a meal the state didn't pay for, and think they're entitled to more.

Wait, then I was told they were all people of color imitating the Intifada, and respresenting the destruction of Western Civ. through multiculturalism and jihad.

Now you tell me some of them are just regular assholes?

I'm confused.

165 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:09:46pm

re: #162 publicityStunted

Actually, if websites that use Facebook commenting are any clue, the "anonymity" portion may no longer be - I was honestly flabbergasted when I first saw the kind of crap people posted, right alongside their real name and photo. So perhaps convenience + stupidity + audience is the better indicator :/

Or perhaps young people lack judgment? I know a certain portion of my own judgment comes from having made poor decisions in the past and learning from it.

Only now, it's posted on facebook for the world to see and permanently recorded. Ouch.

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:11:59pm

re: #153 CuriousLurker

Opportunism at it's finest. Ugh.

The whole deal with the masks reminds me of internet trolls/stalkers. Makes me wonder which seemingly decent people I know might have a nasty Mr. Hyde that surfaces once they're sitting behind the safe anonymity of a keyboard.

A progression:

Image: 1227621277744.png
Image: 1256594659096.png
Image: 1256596283537.jpg

167 recusancy  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:14:09pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

Or perhaps young people lack judgment? I know a certain portion of my own judgment comes from having made poor decisions in the past and learning from it.

Only now, it's posted on facebook for the world to see and permanently recorded. Ouch.

Old people definitely don't seem to have any better judgment.

168 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:15:48pm

This video has been going around among cyclists. The hype was that the mayor of Vilnius, Lithuania, ran over a Mercedes that was parked in a bike lane with a tank. The reality was disappointing.

1.) That's not a tank.

2.) The mayor's "bicycle" has a motor on it.

169 darthstar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:16:06pm

Well, don't go to snopes to verify if the conspiracy theories are just theories... Got this email from my dad today:
SNOPES EXPOSED!!11ty!

Here is some information for those of you who think Snopes is an authority of computer web authority!!!

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what the fuck that is supposed to mean.


Most of us have gone to Snopes for verify information that we were not sure about. Now, come to find out, Snopes is not the paragon of truth we thought it was. I just eliminated them as a source of honesty and integrity. Please read and pass on to your email friends.

Snopes is heavily financed by George Soros, a huge financial supporter of Obama!


Most of you ignore snopes as it negates the very information you want to believe...
facepalm, faceplam, fecesplain, whatever...

170 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:17:56pm

re: #169 darthstar

Well, don't go to snopes to verify if the conspiracy theories are just theories... Got this email from my dad today:
SNOPES EXPOSED!!11ty!

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what the fuck that is supposed to mean.


Most of you ignore snopes as it negates the very information you want to believe...
facepalm, faceplam, fecesplain, whatever...

Next thing you tell me, its that the Onion isn't completely factual.

171 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:18:06pm

re: #169 darthstar

Well, don't go to snopes to verify if the conspiracy theories are just theories... Got this email from my dad today:
SNOPES EXPOSED!!11ty!

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what the fuck that is supposed to mean.


Most of you ignore snopes as it negates the very information you want to believe...
facepalm, faceplam, fecesplain, whatever...

So when you want the true truth, look for the email with all the Fw's on it.

172 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:18:50pm

re: #157 Amory Blaine

Already do that. Kicked all my bigoted friends to the curb. It's been difficult and lonely to some degree but I can't take the stupid no more.

"Start out, alone. All other solitary men will walk at your side, even though you do not see them. Each one will think he is alone, but together you will form a holy battalion, the battalion of the sacred, endless crusade. You do not know, my good friend, how all solitary men, without knowing one another, without looking into another's face, without knowing one another's names, march together and lend each other support. The others talk about one another, shake hands, exchange congratulations, praise each other and run each other down, gossip among themselves,
and then go off their seperate ways. And thus they flee the Sepulcher."

-- Miguel de Unamuno: Our Lord Don Quixote

173 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:20:04pm

re: #159 Killgore Trout

Agreed. And I think that leads people to think they are entitled to have certain (non-essential) things, regardless of whether they can afford them or not. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness becomes life, liberty and the pursuit of things. Sad becuase things will always leave you wanting more, and you can't take any of them with you.

Several years back a guy I knew died with a friend of his when they had a mishap landing a small plane and crashed. I'd been to his house before—it was very nice—and at his funeral, as they were putting him in the ground, all I could think about were all of his things. His "stuff" to channel George Carlin. Our possessions aren't even really ours, y'know? I mean we think they are, and we guard them jealously, but we're really just sort of borrowing them.

174 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:21:09pm

re: #162 publicityStunted

Actually, if websites that use Facebook commenting are any clue, the "anonymity" portion may no longer be - I was honestly flabbergasted when I first saw the kind of crap people posted, right alongside their real name and photo. So perhaps convenience + stupidity + audience is the better indicator :/

Heh, yeah, it's unbelievable what some people will post on FB. O_o

175 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:22:54pm

re: #174 CuriousLurker

Heh, yeah, it's unbelievable what some people will post on FB. O_o

[Link: failbook.failblog.org...]

176 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:25:23pm

re: #166 Sergey Romanov

re: #175 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Ha! Good ones.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:28:45pm

re: #169 darthstar

Well, don't go to snopes to verify if the conspiracy theories are just theories... Got this email from my dad today:
SNOPES EXPOSED!!11ty!

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what the fuck that is supposed to mean.


Most of you ignore snopes as it negates the very information you want to believe...
facepalm, faceplam, fecesplain, whatever...

Now, does Snopes have a page up to explain that they're not funded by Soros? Because that would be kinda meta.

178 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:31:31pm

re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, does Snopes have a page up to explain that they're not funded by Soros? Because that would be kinda meta.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

179 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:31:52pm

re: #169 darthstar

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

180 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:33:02pm

re: #178 Gus 802

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

And...

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

181 Interesting Times  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:36:02pm

re: #179 000G

re: #180 Gus 802

Snopes MediaMatters FactCheck Reality has a liberal bias.

182 lizardofid  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:36:06pm

re: #180 Gus 802

And...

[Link: www.factcheck.org...]

and
[Link: www.truthorfiction.com...]

183 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:39:22pm

Wingnut is a mental illness.

184 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:40:28pm

I'm leaving comments over at Chesler's piece at Arutz Sheva about the British riots.

Doubt it will do any good. I can hear the rebuttal now. "Sure, the ones they arrested were white and British. The cops had special orders not to offend any Muslims by arresting them for looting. Brian of London heard it from his auntie, and she told us."

185 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:40:39pm

re: #181 publicityStunted

re: #180 Gus 802

Snopes MediaMatters FactCheck Reality has a liberal bias.

Yep. Evolution and astronomy also have a liberal bias. These people have lost their minds.

186 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:41:59pm

re: #178 Gus 802

Snopes is biased about itself.

re: #180 Gus 802

Run by Obama-affiliated Annenberg Center.

re: #182 lizardofid

Doesn't offer facts.

There, I refuted you moonbats in 3 seconds.

187 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:43:27pm

In todays "you just can't make this shit up" category, I was just out running some errands and saw a nice new Chevy driving down the street. On the one side of the bumper was a MIA/POW sticker.

On the other was a Che' sticker.

*facepalm*

188 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:43:33pm

re: #186 Sergey Romanov

Snopes is biased about itself.

re: #180 Gus 802

Run by Obama-affiliated Annenberg Center.

re: #182 lizardofid

Doesn't offer facts.

There, I refuted you moonbats in 3 seconds.

Right. Trying to counter a conspiracy theory reminds me of trying to disprove a negative.

189 lizardofid  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:44:35pm

The E-mail that really makes you spew, is the one that reveals some imaginary, outrageous outrage, and has a "verified by snopes" complete with a link at the bottom. But anyone taking the time to follow the link, will see that it clearly states the opposite. sheesh

190 recusancy  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:45:04pm
191 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:48:55pm

You only provided "proof" that Barbara and David Mikkelson run Snopes and haven't provided proof that George Soros DOES NOT run Snopes. Therefore my theory that George Soros runs Snopes is still true!!11ty

Derp.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:50:56pm

re: #188 Gus 802

Right. Trying to counter a conspiracy theory reminds me of trying to disprove a negative.

It's frustrating, since the key thing about people like, say, Thaara's friends, seems to be that it's like Backwards Day at the research center. Any legitimate source is automatically suspect, since it's the official version, and only a fool would believe CNN, or a professor at MIT or something like that.

However, it's sensible, and indeed very intelligent, to believe ramblings on the Internet by people known only for posting ramblings on the Internet. You know they know the truth, from special secret sources, and are telling it to you, because they told you so.

193 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:51:21pm

re: #164 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, I thought all the rioters were dead-eyed yoots from the underclass, who've never had a meal the state didn't pay for, and think they're entitled to more.

Wait, then I was told they were all people of color imitating the Intifada, and respresenting the destruction of Western Civ. through multiculturalism and jihad.

Now you tell me some of them are just regular assholes?

I'm confused.

Bad sociology. The peelers have presented what is called a 'grab sample". Their backgrounds characterize only the slow inexperienced rioters.

194 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:52:03pm

re: #184 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm leaving comments over at Chesler's piece at Arutz Sheva about the British riots.

Doubt it will do any good. I can hear the rebuttal now. "Sure, the ones they arrested were white and British. The cops had special orders not to offend any Muslims by arresting them for looting. Brian of London heard it from his auntie, and she told us."

I just went over there and read her "Multiculturalism = Racism". What it seemed to boil down to is "it's the Muslim's fault":

Non-violent demonstrations (and there have been many in Europe, certainly in England), about college tuition, housing, and employment, do not look like this—although, ‘tis true, many European, allegedly pacifist political demonstrations have turned ugly in jihadist-like ways.

195 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:55:10pm

re: #194 CuriousLurker

I just went over there and read her "Multiculturalism = Racism". What it seemed to boil down to is "it's the Muslim's fault":

Most of what Chesler writes these days goes like that. That, and Obama of course got the presidency, because of white liberal guilt.

Creeps me the hell out.

196 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:55:29pm

re: #194 CuriousLurker

I just went over there and read her "Multiculturalism = Racism". What it seemed to boil down to is "it's the Muslim's fault":

Um, Muslims' not Muslim's. PIMF

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:55:39pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

It's frustrating, since the key thing about people like, say, Thaara's friends, seems to be that it's like Backwards Day at the research center. Any legitimate source is automatically suspect, since it's the official version, and only a fool would believe CNN, or a professor at MIT or something like that.

However, it's sensible, and indeed very intelligent, to believe ramblings on the Internet by people known only for posting ramblings on the Internet. You know they know the truth, from special secret sources, and are telling it to you, because they told you so.

so familiar

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:56:43pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

It's frustrating, since the key thing about people like, say, Thaara's friends, seems to be that it's like Backwards Day at the research center. Any legitimate source is automatically suspect, since it's the official version, and only a fool would believe CNN, or a professor at MIT or something like that.

However, it's sensible, and indeed very intelligent, to believe ramblings on the Internet by people known only for posting ramblings on the Internet. You know they know the truth, from special secret sources, and are telling it to you, because they told you so.

Also, you are never entirely clear what you actually believe, except that the official sources are lying to you. Everything is 'a theory'. And just as valid as any other theory anyone might have.

199 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:56:58pm

re: #195 SanFranciscoZionist

Most of what Chesler writes these days goes like that. That, and Obama of course got the presidency, because of white liberal guilt.

Creeps me the hell out.

Well, yeah—duh!—I mean he's a seekrit Muslim.

200 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 1:57:21pm

re: #193 Decatur Deb

Bad sociology. The peelers have presented what is called a 'grab sample". Their backgrounds characterize only the slow inexperienced rioters.

LOL!

The rest of the mob will now be stronger and faster because we hunted down the weak ones!!

201 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:00:39pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

It's frustrating, since the key thing about people like, say, Thaara's friends, seems to be that it's like Backwards Day at the research center. Any legitimate source is automatically suspect, since it's the official version, and only a fool would believe CNN, or a professor at MIT or something like that.

However, it's sensible, and indeed very intelligent, to believe ramblings on the Internet by people known only for posting ramblings on the Internet. You know they know the truth, from special secret sources, and are telling it to you, because they told you so.

Sort of like having a theory and then looking for evidence to support that theory. The theory remains static and unchanged in the person's mind. Evidence, news, or reports that counter the theory are filtered out and discarded. Only supporting evidence is retained. Astronaut and geological evidence are not included in the moon hoax ramblings. Instead it's a collection of disgruntled and unstable former NASA sub contractors, etc.

202 Atlas Fails  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:00:48pm

re: #165 EmmmieG

Or perhaps young people lack judgment? I know a certain portion of my own judgment comes from having made poor decisions in the past and learning from it.

Only now, it's posted on facebook for the world to see and permanently recorded. Ouch.

Two words: Tea. Baggers.

203 jaunte  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:01:09pm

re: #193 Decatur Deb

Bad sociology. The peelers have presented what is called a 'grab sample". Their backgrounds characterize only the slow inexperienced rioters.

The English Darwinist League?

204 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:02:14pm

re: #191 Gus 802

Derp.

I still want to know why News Corp. (and everyone who's ever worked for them or appeared on one of their shows) isn't considered that media arm of the MB and/or AQ when Prince Alwaleed owns 7% of thier shares....

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:07:14pm

[Link: www.radioaustralia.net.au...]

derpity derp derp

206 Neutral President  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:07:17pm

re: #204 CuriousLurker

I still want to know why News Corp. (and everyone who's ever worked for them or appeared on one of their shows) isn't considered that media arm of the MB and/or AQ when Prince Alwaleed owns 7% of thier shares...

Partisan Selective Memory syndrome created by an enlargment of the wingnut-moonbat center of the hippocampus.

207 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:09:38pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, you are never entirely clear what you actually believe, except that the official sources are lying to you. Everything is 'a theory'. And just as valid as any other theory anyone might have.

Step one for conspiracy theorists kooks: reject all authority. Especially traditional and/or government authorities. Media and journalism are authorities so reject those as well. Step two: create your own authority. This can be easily accomplished today with the creation of a website, blog, or internet radio program. Etc.re: #206 ArchangelMichael

Partisan Selective Memory syndrome created by an enlargment of the wingnut-moonbat center of the hippocampus.

Booze probably helps. Lots and lots of booze.

208 Achilles Tang  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:09:39pm

re: #204 CuriousLurker

I still want to know why News Corp. (and everyone who's ever worked for them or appeared on one of their shows) isn't considered that media arm of the MB and/or AQ when Prince Alwaleed owns 7% of thier shares...

For the same reason that all Muslims aren't MB or AQ, even though perhaps 7% of them are.

209 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:09:44pm

re: #206 ArchangelMichael

Partisan Selective Memory syndrome created by an enlargment of the wingnut-moonbat center of the hippocampus.

Heh, that seems to really widespread.

210 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:14:17pm

re: #209 CuriousLurker

Heh, that seems to really widespread.

The internet hasn't helped. Neither has cable television. Before that it had limited access on AM radio and the local library. The internet is a lot easier and allow for passive engagement in conspiracy exposure. Just sit there and search on a computer. Much the same like cable television. Reading at the library took some effort. And the AM radio exposure was limited to a few crazy conspiracy shows if they can even get that in their location.

211 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:14:25pm

re: #208 Naso Tang

For the same reason that all Muslims aren't MB or AQ, even though perhaps 7% of them are.

Not if you're a conspiracy theorist, which is what we're talking about.

Let's hope 7% aren't since that percentage of 1.5 billion is a really big number—somewhere around 100,000,000 I believe.

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:16:29pm

re: #207 Gus 802

It's actually much worse. Reject all authority they don't like. Cafeteria approach. Because e.g. for historical kooks science is an authority. Science as they see it, that is. Gas chambers are hoax - because SCIENCE!11

213 Achilles Tang  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:18:50pm

re: #211 CuriousLurker

Not if you're a conspiracy theorist, which is what we're talking about.

Let's hope 7% aren't since that percentage of 1.5 billion is a really big number—somewhere around 100,000,000 I believe.

I suspected you might have meant that as sarcasm, but my fingers beat me to the punch. As to 7%, I used it because you did, however since we are on the subject, polls have suggested that well over 7% are inclined to be sympathetic to the above, to varying degrees.

214 albusteve  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:18:54pm

Jackie O says LBJ did it

215 Neutral President  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:20:27pm

re: #214 albusteve

Jackie O says LBJ did it

216 Gus  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:21:59pm

BBL

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:22:36pm

I bumped into a German denier once on a forum I frequented, he was obsessed with CSI. Not the real stuff, mind you, the show. Oh, look at what CSI does! This should have been done at the camp sites! Why don't they do it on the gas chambers? Why why why don't they CSI the camps? What do they have to hide?

218 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:27:40pm

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

I bumped into a German denier once on a forum I frequented, he was obsessed with CSI. Not the real stuff, mind you, the show. Oh, look at what CSI does! This should have been done at the camp sites! Why don't they do it on the gas chambers? Why why why don't they CSI the camps? What do they have to hide?

CSI.
Sure, if the Holocaust happened a few years ago. You'd get tons of stuff.
But from 65ish years ago?
No.
CSI has made people dumb to forensics.

219 makeitstop  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:28:11pm

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

I bumped into a German denier once on a forum I frequented, he was obsessed with CSI. Not the real stuff, mind you, the show. Oh, look at what CSI does! This should have been done at the camp sites! Why don't they do it on the gas chambers? Why why why don't they CSI the camps? What do they have to hide?

Tell him David Caruso's people said he's not available.
/

220 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:30:59pm

re: #25 000G

I was particularly disgusted when I saw this the other day:

Rush: If Norway Was Like The U.S., Alleged Attacker Would Get To "Build A Church At The Site Of His Crime"

That line only makes sense if you assume that all Muslims are the same. But with Rush it's about throwing red meat to the audience, not making a point.

221 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:31:04pm

re: #213 Naso Tang

I suspected you might have meant that as sarcasm, but my fingers beat me to the punch. As to 7%, I used it because you did, however since we are on the subject, polls have suggested that well over 7% are inclined to be sympathetic to the above, to varying degrees.

Ah, I see, 7% of shares News Corp. stock became 7% of Muslims. As for the unnamed polls, I'm not sure why/if you expect me to address that.

222 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:34:17pm

re: #211 CuriousLurker

Not if you're a conspiracy theorist, which is what we're talking about.

Let's hope 7% aren't since that percentage of 1.5 billion is a really big number—somewhere around 100,000,000 I believe.

105000000.

223 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:35:38pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

CSI.
Sure, if the Holocaust happened a few years ago. You'd get tons of stuff.
But from 65ish years ago?
No.
CSI has made people dumb to forensics.

Legal experts have gone on record saying court cases have been lost because people expect the crap they see on CSI to happen in the court room, ignoring eyewitness testimony and other evidence.

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:36:26pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

wtf

226 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:38:13pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

Um, Muslims' not Muslim's. PIMF

Not unless there's a specific Muslim you really have it in for.

227 Idle Drifter  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:39:08pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

CSI.
Sure, if the Holocaust happened a few years ago. You'd get tons of stuff.
But from 65ish years ago?
No.
CSI has made people dumb to forensics.

This is why I watch cartoons. The voice acting better, the stories are interesting, and there's no way in hell it can be mistaken for the real thing.

228 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:39:18pm

re: #226 EmmmieG

Not unless there's a specific Muslim you really have it in for.

LOL, true that.

229 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:39:47pm

re: #225 Sergey Romanov

wtf

I've read that, too. On CNN, no less. Jurors say "Well, it didn't look anything like what I saw on TV." At which point I generally stop reading and go beat my head against the wall.

230 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:39:54pm

re: #225 Sergey Romanov

wtf

CSI effect

The CSI effect, also known as the CSI syndrome[1] and the CSI infection,[2] is any of several ways in which the exaggerated portrayal of forensic science on crime television shows such as CSI: Crime Scene Investigation influences public perception. The term most often refers to the belief that jurors have come to demand more forensic evidence in criminal trials, thereby raising the effective standard of proof for prosecutors. Although this belief is widely held among American legal professionals, several studies have shown that crime shows are unlikely to cause such an effect.

There are several other manifestations of the CSI effect. Greater public awareness of forensic science has also increased the demand for forensic evidence in police investigations, boosting workloads for crime laboratories. The number and popularity of forensic science programs at the university level have greatly increased worldwide, though some new programs have been criticized for inadequately preparing their students for real forensic work. It is possible that forensic science shows teach criminals how to conceal evidence of their crimes, thereby making it more difficult for investigators to solve cases.

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:41:28pm

re: #218 Varek Raith

CSI.
Sure, if the Holocaust happened a few years ago. You'd get tons of stuff.
But from 65ish years ago?
No.
CSI has made people dumb to forensics.

One has to wonder what he imagines they would find.

232 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:41:32pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

damn

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:42:06pm

re: #229 Dark_Falcon

f'n douches

234 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:42:21pm

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

One has to wonder what he imagines they would find.

Stuff he will ignore.
;)

235 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:42:22pm

re: #228 CuriousLurker

LOL, true that.

It's all his fault. Everything. He done it.

236 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:43:32pm

re: #227 Idle Drifter

This is why I watch cartoons. The voice acting better, the stories are interesting, and there's no way in hell it can be mistaken for the real thing.

When I lived near Seattle, a friend of mine drove his out-of-town guests by the Space Needle and told them that's where the Jetsons was filmed. Took waaay too long for the "Hey, wait a minute...." reaction.

237 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:44:48pm

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

One has to wonder what he imagines they would find.

After nearly 70 years...

238 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:46:15pm

re: #237 EmmmieG

After nearly 70 years...

Lots has been found and continues to be found (like excavations in Belzec and Sobibor). It's the insistence on the idiotic standard of proof and abuse of the word "forensic" that gets me.

239 albusteve  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:49:40pm

life begins anew tonight...
NFL preseason

240 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:49:47pm

Wait, the infamous thread has been restored?

241 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:50:13pm

The riots were caused by the liberals. They created the breakdown of the family, created a welfare state where entitlements are the rule of the day, killed absolute morals and replaced them with relativism, and are keeping the poor poor by helping them support their drug and alcohol habits. It isn't poverty that causes an increase in crime, it's the liberal breakdown of the social values championed for years by social conservatives. Liberals, and the grand experiment of the intelligentsia and elite, have been a pox on society for thirty years.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:50:17pm

Ah, I see Charles' comment. Nifty.

243 Kragar  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:50:29pm

re: #234 Varek Raith

Stuff he will ignore.
;)

Entire units consisting of thousands of Allied and Russian troops were in on the cover up...

244 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:52:18pm

re: #242 Sergey Romanov

Ah, I see Charles' comment. Nifty.

Which thread is this?

245 albusteve  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:53:04pm

re: #241 b_sharp

The riots were caused by the liberals. They created the breakdown of the family, created a welfare state where entitlements are the rule of the day, killed absolute morals and replaced them with relativism, and are keeping the poor poor by helping them support their drug and alcohol habits. It isn't poverty that causes an increase in crime, it's the liberal breakdown of the social values championed for years by social conservatives. Liberals, and the grand experiment of the intelligentsia and elite, have been a pox on society for thirty years.

about time somebody said it

246 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:55:27pm

re: #241 b_sharp

The riots were caused by the liberals. They created the breakdown of the family, created a welfare state where entitlements are the rule of the day, killed absolute morals and replaced them with relativism, and are keeping the poor poor by helping them support their drug and alcohol habits. It isn't poverty that causes an increase in crime, it's the liberal breakdown of the social values championed for years by social conservatives. Liberals, and the grand experiment of the intelligentsia and elite, have been a pox on society for thirty years.

BTW, this was an actual argument I heard today on the Charles Adler talk radio show.

I'm going to craft an email response tonight. Anyone want to chip in some ideas?

247 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:58:51pm
248 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 2:58:59pm

re: #246 b_sharp

BTW, this was an actual argument I heard today on the Charles Adler talk radio show.

I'm going to craft an email response tonight. Anyone want to chip in some ideas?

I'd have to say that he's right in the case of the UK. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this one.

249 albusteve  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:00:17pm

re: #246 b_sharp

BTW, this was an actual argument I heard today on the Charles Adler talk radio show.

I'm going to craft an email response tonight. Anyone want to chip in some ideas?

no

250 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:00:55pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

I'd have to say that he's right in the case of the UK. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this one.

251 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:01:22pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

I'd have to say that he's right in the case of the UK. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for this one.

And rightly so.

252 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:02:24pm

re: #246 b_sharp

BTW, this was an actual argument I heard today on the Charles Adler talk radio show.

I'm going to craft an email response tonight. Anyone want to chip in some ideas?

Why? Anybody who could believe this pablum isn't worthy of a response.

253 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:02:56pm

re: #246 b_sharp

BTW, this was an actual argument I heard today on the Charles Adler talk radio show.

I'm going to craft an email response tonight. Anyone want to chip in some ideas?

That particular argument, the way it's phrased, is crap.

I don't like the "blame game". I just don't. Most politicians and policy makers, liberal or conservative, genuinely have the best interests of their constituency at heart, even though it doesn't seem like it at times. Where they differ is how to get to the best outcome.

b-sharp, if you're still here, I'll expand this a bit more.

254 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:04:41pm

re: #253 reine.de.tout

That particular argument, the way it's phrased, is crap.

I don't like the "blame game". I just don't. Most politicians and policy makers, liberal or conservative, genuinely have the best interests of their constituency at heart, even though it doesn't seem like it at times. Where they differ is how to get to the best outcome.

b-sharp, if you're still here, I'll expand this a bit more.

Or I can send you a e-mail and spare myself the inevitable "but . . what about THIS??????" that I just don't feel like engaging in right now. I basically want to explain my position, answer reasonable questions, and then go about my business while you decide if you do or do not like my explanation.

255 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:05:19pm

> They created the breakdown of the family

How exactly?

> killed absolute morals

How can one kill something which doesn't exist?

> liberal breakdown of the social values championed for years by social conservatives

Social conservatives championed bare naked racism and bigotry for years. any breakdown of those values is to be welcomed. No other values were harmed in the process.

256 albusteve  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:05:44pm

re: #252 Sergey Romanov

Why? Anybody who could believe this pablum isn't worthy of a response.

crafting responses to radio talk show hosts is a legit hobby

257 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:07:00pm

re: #255 Sergey Romanov

> They created the breakdown of the family

How exactly?

> killed absolute morals

How can one kill something which doesn't exist?

> liberal breakdown of the social values championed for years by social conservatives

Social conservatives championed bare naked racism and bigotry for years. any breakdown of those values is to be welcomed. No other values were harmed in the process.

Exactly, these are just statements with no facts or information to back them up. This is the "blame game", and I detest it. Nobody with any sense whatsoever would really do things hoping for that sort of outcome.

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:07:21pm

+423.37

good

259 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:08:18pm

Well, if b-sharp comes back - I'm on the run, if you want me to say any more, shoot me an email, you have it, I think, or you can find it at the cookbook blog.

260 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:08:20pm

I am sick of the blame games too. You can't blame liberalism or conservatism for people acting like immature jackasses in this case. It's absurd. But hey it's easy to blame liberals because we have no morals *rolls eyes*. And some conservatives wonder why liberals get annoyed with them.

261 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:09:29pm

re: #260 HappyWarrior

I am sick of the blame games too. You can't blame liberalism or conservatism for people acting like immature jackasses in this case. It's absurd. But hey it's easy to blame liberals because we have no morals *rolls eyes*. And some conservatives wonder why liberals get annoyed with them.

Well, right.
And I've seen it go the other way as well, "YOU WANT ALL THE POOR PEOPLE TO DIIIEEEE!!".
No. And it's quite annoying to keep hearing that.

262 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:09:51pm

re: #257 reine.de.tout

Exactly, these are just statements with no facts or information to back them up. This is the "blame game", and I detest it. Nobody with any sense whatsoever would really do things hoping for that sort of outcome.

That's the problem I've had with most of these sweeping responses, both left and right, to the riots. People make these absolute statements, and I'm supposed to believe them because...

...well, actually, I'm supposed to believe the one that comes closest to my particular version of how the world runs, and ignore the fact that they're talking nothing but generalities and don't appear to have ever met anyone from the social group they're discussing.

263 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:09:58pm

re: #261 reine.de.tout

Well, right.
And I've seen it go the other way as well, "YOU WANT ALL THE POOR PEOPLE TO DIIIEEE!!".
No. And it's quite annoying to keep hearing that.

Yep both extremes suck terribly.

264 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:11:40pm

re: #255 Sergey Romanov

> They created the breakdown of the family

Both in the US and UK, the welfare polices promoted by the left devalued fathers and social polices undermined parental authority.

> killed absolute morals

How can one kill something which doesn't exist?

> liberal breakdown of the social values championed for years by social conservatives

Welfare undermined family, the resulting culture of entitlement helped undermine the value of hard work. Moreover, while the left was unequivocally right to fight racism, in many cases this lead to the formation of identity politics, which the left wrongly supported. Identity politics lead to cultural victimization and the 'cult on victimhood', which the right often joins as well these days.

My answers to two of those questions you asked are in the quote in place of yours. I couldn't answer the middle one and so left it alone.

265 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:11:46pm

Social conservatives were pro-slavery, then pro-segregation and they want to talk about "breakdown of values"! Sheesh.

266 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:12:35pm

I have to say I am tired of conservative talk show hosts and pundits acting like liberals either have no morals or don't teach their children morals. You don't have to be religious to believe in certain morals. I had a secular upbringing by my parents by and large. Note to conservative pundit jerks, they still taught me that stealing was wrong, that I should treat others as I'd want to be treated, or that violence is never the first answer but hey my parents were just a buncha evil secularists I guess because they never made me or my brothers do holy communion and could have easily gone without baptizing me. I am sorry but blaming liberalism for people's behavior is absolute crap. I am so tired of these self righteous conservative pundits who don't know shit about liberals and how they raise their kids.

267 TedStriker  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:13:05pm

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

I bumped into a German denier once on a forum I frequented, he was obsessed with CSI. Not the real stuff, mind you, the show. Oh, look at what CSI does! This should have been done at the camp sites! Why don't they do it on the gas chambers? Why why why don't they CSI the camps? What do they have to hide?

re: #218 Varek Raith

CSI.
Sure, if the Holocaust happened a few years ago. You'd get tons of stuff.
But from 65ish years ago?
No.
CSI has made people dumb to forensics.

re: #219 makeitstop

Tell him David Caruso's people said he's not available.
/

Image: 713833cf45ae.jpg

[Link: www.karolinagames.com...]

268 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:13:09pm

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

Social conservatives were pro-slavery, then pro-segregation and they want to talk about "breakdown of values"! Sheesh.

Yep, yep!

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:17:37pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

I don't see how welfare can undermine family. And the issue is not whether there were side effects of fighting the social conservative values, but that the breakdown of those evil values is just great.

270 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:20:32pm

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

Social conservatives were pro-slavery, then pro-segregation and they want to talk about "breakdown of values"! Sheesh.

In the south they were, but not everywhere. But these days, social conservatism is all closely linked to the south. More's the pity.

271 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:26:41pm

I am sorry but it's ridiculous to act like liberal values have undermined traditional values. Contrary to what many on the right believe about liberals, liberals aren't opposed to fathers, hell I wouldn't be the man I am if it wasn't for my Dad. However, we do feel that just because a parent is gay or single, that doesn't mean they can't be a good parent. I've seen gay and lesbian parents. My cousin is one of them and one of my youngest brother's good friends had parents that were too. And frankly on stuff like drug use, I'd rather have a father like my own that was open about his own experiences rather than a father who did use drugs while at the same time scarring his kids in to not using them. The other problem with social conservatism is that it's okay with ostracizing the outsider. Note it wasn't social liberals that were and are nasty to immigrants and others. I am sorry but I have no tolerance of conservatives who want to blame liberals for people's problems when they have their own.

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:29:54pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

In the south they were, but not everywhere. But these days, social conservatism is all closely linked to the south. More's the pity.

Show me a significant strain of social conservatism (and that is a relative term, of course, for the liberals of those days would be quite conservative by today's standards) who weren't ok with the pet conservative issues of the day, like slavery, segregation, sexual immorality, SSM etc.

(And say thanks I'm only asking about the US ;) The Russian social conservatives, whether the right-wing under Tsar or the left-wing under the Soviets weren't any better, and I'm sure we could go through other states and find all the same.)

273 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:30:35pm

re: #262 SanFranciscoZionist

That's the problem I've had with most of these sweeping responses, both left and right, to the riots. People make these absolute statements, and I'm supposed to believe them because...

...well, actually, I'm supposed to believe the one that comes closest to my particular version of how the world runs, and ignore the fact that they're talking nothing but generalities and don't appear to have ever met anyone from the social group they're discussing.

ding ding ding ding ding!

274 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:31:07pm

re: #271 HappyWarrior

... because if you cuff a would-be-stray father to the family he doesn't want, it would do so much good.

275 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:41:54pm

re: #274 Sergey Romanov

... because if you cuff a would-be-stray father to the family he doesn't want, it would do so much good.

Pretty much. Really the idea that liberals don't think fathers are important is nonsense. It's just that there are more than one ways to raise kids.

276 HappyWarrior  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 3:49:36pm

I think it should also be pointed out since Sergey brought up Civil Rights that it's thanks to moderates and liberals in both parties that we have Civil Rights. It was the social conservatives in both parties who insisted that giving equal rights to African Americans and others was akin to Communism. They were wrong and we are better off for it as a nation. I never thought we'd see a black president this early on in the 21st century and here we are not even a half century after LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 in to law and have on. Still work to be done but that's part of the journey.

277 A Sockpuppet's Sockpuppet  Thu, Aug 11, 2011 4:33:56pm

re: #265 Sergey Romanov

Social conservatives were pro-slavery, then pro-segregation and they want to talk about "breakdown of values"! Sheesh.

This is quite close to the response percolating in my head.

278 Flavia  Sun, Aug 14, 2011 12:58:08am

re: #169 darthstar

Well, don't go to snopes to verify if the conspiracy theories are just theories... Got this email from my dad today:
SNOPES EXPOSED!!11ty!

I'm sorry, but I don't even know what the fuck that is supposed to mean.


Most of you ignore snopes as it negates the very information you want to believe...
facepalm, faceplam, fecesplain, whatever...

Of course, I wrote directly to Snopes once, as I had several examples I, personally, knew of that contradicted something Snopes had written. I received a polite, curt "Thank you", but the article was never corrected. All I could think of is that they wanted to believe that the truth was just what they had written, & nothing else.

As always, you have to have more than one source of information with which to check the other.


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