Video: All 8 Republicans Would Walk Away from ‘10 to 1’ Deal

The Republican Party is badly broken
Politics • Views: 33,909

Of all the absurd and disturbing moments in last night’s Republican debate, this may have been the most revealing: when Bret Baier asked the candidates, “Say you had a deal, a real spending cuts deal, 10 to 1, as Byron said, spending cuts to tax increases. Who on this stage would walk away from that deal?”

And every single Republican raised their hand. You’ll never see a better illustration of the GOP’s nihilist obstructionism; unless they get absolutely everything they want, they’ll bring down the country in a blazing last stand. Sickening.

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213 comments

1 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:49:49am

Democracy can't work without compromise.

2 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:50:13am

re: #1 Obdicut

Who said they cared about democracy?

3 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:50:25am

I can see that none of these people can aptly be described as leaders. Seriously GOP get rid of the dogmatism on tax increases. It makes you look like children.

4 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:50:37am

How about 20 to 1? 50 to 1?

//

5 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:51:05am

Grover Norquist got a posse.

6 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:51:06am

Thanks to the GOP for further clarifying whose at fault for losing our AAA credit rating. Hopefully voters will continue to take notice.

7 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:51:48am

re: #4 Bulworth

How about 20 to 1? 50 to 1?

//

They would turn down 100 to one. These are fundamentalists.

8 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:53:13am

Spookier than the hands raised are the hands clapping.

9 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:53:26am

re: #1 Obdicut

Politics is the very art of compromise; and staking out an extreme position might sit well with the far fringe, but that wont play well in the general election or with independents who you need to win an election.

That clip essentially says these clowns (and I'm now considering every last one of them on that stage to be a clown) would refuse any compromise that gives them 90% of what they want.

It also means that Norquist has fully taken over the fiscal policy of the GOP and not in a good way.

That's not fiscal conservatism in the slightest as someone seeking fiscal responsibility would take that kind of a deal in a heartbeat. But the soundbite of accepting even a slightest hint of a tax hike is an anathema to the party candidates.

10 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:53:36am

re: #4 Bulworth

How about 20 to 1? 50 to 1?

//

They know that any mention of increasing taxes, no matter what the ratio (1000 to 1!) will immediately mean millions of Koch/CFG dollars painting them as wife-beating child-molesting allah-worshipping degenerates.

"No, Bob, I think increasing taxes is always wrong. Always."

11 Achilles Tang  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:54:01am

This is a religion, not politics or economics.

12 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:54:53am

Yes this isn't fiscal conservatism in the slightest. This is "I am afraid Groer Norquist won't talk to me if I raise taxes." Wusses the whole lot of them. If Democrats can cut social spending then Republicans need to realize that tax increases may sometimes be necessary.

13 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:55:04am

Pinching off taxation is their only hope of reducing government. All the other methods are too hard and complex.

14 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:55:11am

re: #9 lawhawk

And as you note, it's not just the tea party candidates. These fools have been in the GOP, and strongly influencing policy, for decades. Norquist, dick Armey, Steve Forbes, and all the idiotic 'flat tax' pushers are the root of this sort of ideological fervor.

15 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:56:09am

The entire Republican Party has turned into that group of "sovereign" nutcases you used to see holed up in some Idaho backwoods shack just waiting for someone to come bother them.

16 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:56:33am

The GOP is taking the George Carlin model of leadership to heart:

"Lead, follow, or get out of the way". You know what I do when I see that shirt; I obstruct. I stand right in the guy's path, force him to walk around me, he gets a little past me, I spin him around kick him in the nuts, rip off his shirt, wipe it on my ass, and shove it down his fucking throat.

17 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:57:04am

Pretty weird cut to where Bachmann wasn't at the podium for the resumption of the debate. I guess she used up her supply of "Unconstitutional!" remarks and needed to be rewound.

18 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:57:11am

re: #13 BigPapa

Pinching off taxation is their only hope of reducing government. All the other methods are too hard and complex.

Governing is hard...I KNOW, LETS HOLD A PRAYER RALLY!

19 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:57:49am

re: #15 RadicalModerate

The entire Republican Party has turned into that group of "sovereign" nutcases you used to see holed up in some Idaho backwoods shack just waiting for someone to come bother them.

Whatever happened to "We, the people"?

20 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:58:15am

Well that is how the communist ruling elite do it. No compromise, our way or no way. One party, total rule. And see how well that has worked out.

21 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:58:37am

2 questions for GOP candidates:

What government spending are you looking to cut funding for if not eliminate all together?

What government spending are you looking to include into the budget or increase funding to current existing programs and services?

Actually I could break these two down into simpler questions. But I like throwing a breaking ball every now and then.

22 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:58:43am

re: #18 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Governing is hard...I KNOW, LETS HOLD A PRAYER RALLY!

A Poem:

Rick Perry is
not a Mormon.
He has shiny hair,
Looks good in a suit,
White shining teeth,
Just like that other guy -
But he is
not a Mormon.

23 Lidane  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:58:48am

re: #11 Naso Tang

This is a religion, not politics or economics.

Welcome to the modern Republican party.

24 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 9:59:44am

Yes, the GOP are just like the communists! That's what I've been sayin.

25 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:00:56am

So short of Ron Paul how would these obvious hawks fund Homeland Security, the Pentagon, the prison-industrial complex, TSA, Patriot Act, and the endless collection of Federal law enforcement agencies? They're either in denial, ignorant or liars. I'm banking on the latter.

26 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:03:30am

re: #2 JasonA

Their latest line is that the founders "hated and feared" democracy because of Oliver Cromwell (or some such bullshit), and that we're really a "republic." Possibly their lamest semantic nonsense since the "Democrat party."

27 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:03:36am

Gus just beat me to it by bringing up the fact that other than Ron Paul the rest of these people are all hawks on defense. You can't expect to build up the defense budget while lowering revenues. Can we please stop believing that the Republicans understand the economy better than Democrats because these guys clearly don't.

28 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:03:42am

re: #25 Gus 802

So short of Ron Paul how would these obvious hawks fund Homeland Security, the Pentagon, the prison-industrial complex, TSA, Patriot Act, and the endless collection of Federal law enforcement agencies? They're either in denial, ignorant or liars. I'm banking on the latter.

Prison industry is well on its way to privatization.

TSA can also be spun off - used as a way for the airlines to collude on ticket prices ("surcharges" to pay for the private security service, which they will helpfully provide, and streamline by preventing "undesirables" from traveling at all).

Etc. etc.

29 Ericus58  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:03:48am

re: #9 lawhawk

Politics is the very art of compromise; and staking out an extreme position might sit well with the far fringe, but that wont play well in the general election or with independents who you need to win an election.

That clip essentially says these clowns (and I'm now considering every last one of them on that stage to be a clown) would refuse any compromise that gives them 90% of what they want.

It also means that Norquist has fully taken over the fiscal policy of the GOP and not in a good way.

That's not fiscal conservatism in the slightest as someone seeking fiscal responsibility would take that kind of a deal in a heartbeat. But the soundbite of accepting even a slightest hint of a tax hike is an anathema to the party candidates.

Bolded for emphasis.
Total Party Fail.

I warmly and knowingly embrace my Independence from them.

30 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:05:07am

re: #20 RayFerd

I think that the term you are looking for is "totalitarianism".

Hyper-nationalism, god and country are one and the same, more than just a slight hint of racial/ethnic purity, anyone who disagrees is an enemy of the state are tenets of the modern Republican Party.

31 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:06:12am
32 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:06:31am

re: #28 iossarian

Prison industry is well on its way to privatization.

TSA can also be spun off - used as a way for the airlines to collude on ticket prices ("surcharges" to pay for the private security service, which they will helpfully provide, and streamline by preventing "undesirables" from traveling at all).

Etc. etc.

Right. But even if privatized the prison system would need funding from the government since it can't become a for-profit business. The only other way I can see that working would be prison labor and using the profits from that labor to sustain a private prison. Are looking at becoming the next China? Would these Republican candidates support an intense and nation wide prison labor system?

33 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:06:40am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Gus just beat me to it by bringing up the fact that other than Ron Paul the rest of these people are all hawks on defense. You can't expect to build up the defense budget while lowering revenues. Can we please stop believing that the Republicans understand the economy better than Democrats because these guys clearly don't.

YUH HUH IF YOU TAKE AWAY TEH WELFARE QUEENS' CADILLACS!

/dammit, I need to learn to type in sans.

34 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:07:50am

re: #32 Gus 802

Right. But even if privatized the prison system would need funding from the government since it can't become a for-profit business. The only other way I can see that working would be prison labor and using the profits from that labor to sustain a private prison. Are looking at becoming the next China? Would these Republican candidates support an intense and nation wide prison labor system?

And if they won't work, there are other ways of dealing with such anti-american filth.

35 Ericus58  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:08:30am

I enjoyed seeing each one of them using their periphery vision watching who was raising their hands - it was like popcorn in the kettle.

Pop...pop...poppoppoppop!

36 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:08:45am

re: #33 Atlas Fails

YUH HUH IF YOU TAKE AWAY TEH WELFARE QUEENS' CADILLACS!

/dammit, I need to learn to type in sans.

[ wingnut ] Text here. [ /wingnut ]

No spaces in the code.

37 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:09:15am

S&P points directly to GOP who said no chance of default as reason for downgrade


Standard & Poors has a specific justification for downgrading the U.S. bond rating, and it's deadly for Republicans. It wasn't just that Congress showed itself to be reckless and dysfunctional, or that the GOP shows no sign of ever ending their anti-tax jihad. It's that for a period of weeks, some lawmakers (read: Republicans) were quite literally shrugging off the risks of blowing past the August 2 deadline, running out of borrowing authority, and missing payment obligations.

"[P]eople in the political arena were even talking about a potential default," said Joydeep Mukherji, senior directior at S&P. "That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable," he added. "This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns."

38 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:09:24am

re: #34 iossarian

And if they won't work, there are other ways of dealing with such anti-american filth.

Prison labor camps. Hmm, where have we seen that before?

39 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:10:05am

re: #38 Gus 802

Prison labor camps. Hmm, where have we seen that before?

Arizona...

40 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:10:25am

More on why I consider all of these poseurs to be clowns.

Consider Romney. He claims to be knowledgable about politics, policy, and taxes. He was a governor of a blue state - Mass. His dad was governor of a blue state - MI. He knows, or should know about compromise.

Yet, he goes along with the circus around him and doesn't recognize just how bad the optic looks - not in the primary, but in a general election. As that same question in a general debate, and both Obama and Romney (if he wins the nomination) would willingly take the deal - albeit with whatever caveats you want to put in.

Instead, he shows no spine by saying that a 90/10 split is a huge win, and good governance. Absolutism wins the day, and therefore he beclowns himself.

That and he's lying his ass off saying he wouldn't take that deal. Of the rest, I suspect one or two might not accept any deal at all, but even then, they might find that Congress (and the House) would be willing to take that deal and override whatever veto - if they really were sticking to the no-tax pledge - were threatened or forthcoming.

41 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:10:25am

Does this mean that the Navy will have to start making and selling luxury yachts and sailboats?

//

42 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:11:25am

re: #35 Ericus58

I enjoyed seeing each one of them using their periphery vision watching who was raising their hands - it was like popcorn in the kettle.

Pop...pop...poppoppoppop!

In a way, asking the contestants to raise their hands for approval was the closest thing to a gotcha question that evening. That kind of thing always goes down the same in quasi-public settings, no matter the ideological coloring. Anyone ever having cast a non-secret vote in a students' council knows…

43 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:13:24am

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now paged

44 allegro  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:14:13am

re: #32 Gus 802

Would these Republican candidates support an intense and nation wide prison labor system?

Oh yes. Without question.

45 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:14:47am

re: #30 RadicalModerate

I think that the term you are looking for is "totalitarianism".

Hyper-nationalism, god and country are one and the same, more than just a slight hint of racial/ethnic purity, anyone who disagrees is an enemy of the state are tenets of the modern Republican Party.

I stick by the modern manifestation (not the "as put on paper") communist regimes that are around the world. One party, no questions asked. Totalitarianism, to me, is the state in control of everything no matter who is in power. Communism in the modern world is a one party (all others are illegal) control of the state.

46 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:14:55am

re: #43 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Now paged

elizajane beat ya to it.

47 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:16:34am

Rick Perry would be able to get away with convincing his party that God told him to raise taxes 10 to 1 against spending cuts, it's in the Bible,isn#t it?

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:16:45am

re: #20 RayFerd

Well that is how the communist ruling elite do it. No compromise, our way or no way. One party, total rule. And see how well that has worked out.

I agree that North Korea is in bad condition these days, but what does that have to do with the GOP nomination?

49 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:16:59am

re: #40 lawhawk

More on why I consider all of these poseurs to be clowns.

Consider Romney. He claims to be knowledgable about politics, policy, and taxes. He was a governor of a blue state - Mass. His dad was governor of a blue state - MI. He knows, or should know about compromise.

Yet, he goes along with the circus around him and doesn't recognize just how bad the optic looks - not in the primary, but in a general election. As that same question in a general debate, and both Obama and Romney (if he wins the nomination) would willingly take the deal - albeit with whatever caveats you want to put in.

Instead, he shows no spine by saying that a 90/10 split is a huge win, and good governance. Absolutism wins the day, and therefore he beclowns himself.

That and he's lying his ass off saying he wouldn't take that deal. Of the rest, I suspect one or two might not accept any deal at all, but even then, they might find that Congress (and the House) would be willing to take that deal and override whatever veto - if they really were sticking to the no-tax pledge - were threatened or forthcoming.

But he signed a pledge!

(Thanks for the sans tip Gus:)

50 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:17:24am

re: #45 RayFerd

I stick by the modern manifestation (not the "as put on paper") communist regimes that are around the world. One party, no questions asked. Totalitarianism, to me, is the state in control of everything no matter who is in power. Communism in the modern world is a one party (all others are illegal) control of the state.

Conservatism in today's USA is a one party (all others are prevented from having any effectiveness) control of the state.

51 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:17:34am

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Gus just beat me to it by bringing up the fact that other than Ron Paul the rest of these people are all hawks on defense. You can't expect to build up the defense budget while lowering revenues. Can we please stop believing that the Republicans understand the economy better than Democrats because these guys clearly don't.

This isn't about understanding the economy, as much as it's about understanding what their voters want to hear.

52 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:18:57am

re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist

I agree that North Korea is in bad condition these days, but what does that have to do with the GOP nomination?

No compromise. Our parties way or no way. 100% of what we want or nothing.

53 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:19:04am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

This isn't about understanding the economy, as much as it's about understanding what their voters want to hear.

Bingo

Campaign rhetoric during primary season?
Why ,,, it's unprecedented!!!
/

54 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:19:15am

The problem with all the teabag candidates raising their hands was...I believe them. Whatever moderate instincts Romney might have had once are gone.

55 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:19:22am

re: #40 lawhawk


That and he's lying his ass off saying he wouldn't take that deal.

Of course he is. He knows he is. But he also knows he can't possibly say anything sensible and sane while he's competing with the True Believers. They'd use it to bury him.

56 Ericus58  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:19:35am

re: #41 Gus 802

Does this mean that the Navy will have to start making and selling luxury yachts and sailboats?

//

what?! I thought that Destroyer I served on with canvas stretched to an aluminum frame for a bed was pretty cool.... except I couldn't turn over once in it because the rack above me was too close for my shoulders to clear.
/

I watched some of the debate live and only lasted 10 minutes. They (and the sheeple crowd) wasted a bunch of good oxygen last night.

57 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:20:05am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

This isn't about understanding the economy, as much as it's about understanding what their voters want to hear.

True SFZ but how many times are we on the left told that conservatives and Republicans understand the economy better? They clearly do not. Though I do agree, it seems the Republican base is unwilling to accept that tax increases should be on the table in times like this.

58 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:20:41am

re: #53 sattv4u2

Bingo

Campaign rhetoric during primary season?
Why ,,, it's unprecedented!!!
/

The only problem is that this isn't mere rhetoric. Until recently I thought it was but the debt ceiling debate showed that they are serious. We lost our credit rating when it became clear that Republicans really believe this stuff.

59 Lidane  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:21:10am

re: #51 SanFranciscoZionist

This isn't about understanding the economy, as much as it's about understanding what their voters want to hear.

Keep yer gubmint hands off mah Medicare!
Defense cuts mean you hate America!
Build a border fence!
Deport all the Mexicans!

BUT DON'T RAISE MY TAXES!

60 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:22:06am

Let's see. Prison labor camps. No abortions. Submissive women. No gay marriage. Private military (Blackwater/XE). No pollution controls. Prison warehousing. Private police departments. National religion. Subscription based fire departments and EMTs. No public libraries. No evolution in science class. No public schools...

Sounds like something from the Twilight Zone.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:22:10am

re: #53 sattv4u2

Bingo

Campaign rhetoric during primary season?
Why ,,, it's unprecedented!!!
/

Unfortunately, it's looking less innocent now that we have the TPers in office who don't seem to understand that the rules change AFTER the election.

I know Romney gets that. I don't think Bachmann gets that.

62 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:22:45am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

The only problem is that this isn't mere rhetoric. Until recently I thought it was but the debt ceiling debate showed that they are serious. We lost our credit rating when it became clear that Republicans really believe this stuff.

No, we lost our credit rating when 'we' (both parties) decided that the well had no bottom to it
What transpired weeks ago was the bubble finally bursting

63 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:23:05am

re: #57 HappyWarrior

True SFZ but how many times are we on the left told that conservatives and Republicans understand the economy better? They clearly do not. Though I do agree, it seems the Republican base is unwilling to accept that tax increases should be on the table in times like this.

The problem is that the "conservative" view of the economy is closer to the naive understanding of it that many people have (which might be called the "household budget" view).

Even an introductory college-level economics course can leave you with the idea that taxes are always bad, if you're not paying close attention or the professor is lazy and doesn't emphasize the difference between surplus and utility, amongst other things.

64 Ericus58  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:23:32am

O/T
US Appeal Court Rules that Pres. Obama's Healthcare Law's Individual Mandate to Own Health Insurance Is Unconstitutional (story developing)

65 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:23:47am

re: #59 Lidane

Yeah I forget that all of them except Paul probably want to spend more money on border control. These things cost uh money. I stand by what I said. Despite what conservatives and Republicans claim about themselves, they don't understand the economy at all better than liberals and Democrats. Not calling liberals/Dems economic geniuses mind you but there seems to be a great disconnect in modern conservatism about how things work.

66 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:24:20am

re: #62 sattv4u2

No, we lost our credit rating when 'we' (both parties) decided that the well had no bottom to it
What transpired weeks ago was the bubble finally bursting

This is patently false. If both parties had agreed to a cuts/revenue plan, there would have been no downgrade, and the Democrats were clearly willing to compromise.

67 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:24:45am

Developing: Appeals court rules part of President Obama’s health care law unconstitutional

68 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:26:04am

re: #66 iossarian

This is patently false. If both parties had agreed to a cuts/revenue plan, there would have been no downgrade, and the Democrats were clearly willing to compromise.

There WAS a deal for just that, a compromised one

the next day, Obama wanted to increase the agreed upon "revenue" package

And,,,,, where is the budget? The last one he presented was voted down 97-0 in the Dem controlled senate!

69 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:26:22am

re: #67 lawhawk

Developing: Appeals court rules part of President Obama’s health care law unconstitutional

Which court (district?)

70 Lidane  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:26:27am

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Despite what conservatives and Republicans claim about themselves, they don't understand the economy at all better than liberals and Democrats. .

Given their track record of economic failure, including getting America's credit downgraded, the GOP wouldn't know sound fiscal policy if it bit them in the ass.

71 recusancy  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:26:43am

re: #62 sattv4u2

No, we lost our credit rating when 'we' (both parties) decided that the well had no bottom to it
What transpired weeks ago was the bubble finally bursting

Utter bs.

72 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:26:43am

I missed this segment, can anybody point it out?:

"Michelle Bachmann, even when given a second chance, seemed genuinely to believe that the federal debt ceiling applied to future spending, not bills and tax cuts the Congress had already voted to enact. Not sure which is worse: that she knows better and decided this was an applause line to push, or she really doesn't know the first thing about the Congressional budgeting process. I bet most Americans also think that holding down the debt ceiling is a forward-looking budgetary step -- ie, that it's like resolving to spend less next month. But they're still wrong. The real comparison is resolving not to pay a credit card bill when it shows up. For a national candidate not to understand this??? Seriously, this is like discovering that your doctor thinks that your trachea is attached to your spleen."

-- James Fallows, via Andrew Sullivan

h/t Bulworth

73 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:27:56am

re: #13 BigPapa

Pinching off taxation is their only hope of reducing government. All the other methods are too hard and complex.

It's a way to murder government without leaving fingerprints.

If you directly oppose government services and regulation, people will see that you're responsible for the bad consequences that follow. If you simple deny funding for services and regulation enforcement, you can effectively nullify them without ever admitting that was your intention.

74 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:27:57am

re: #63 iossarian

The problem is that the "conservative" view of the economy is closer to the naive understanding of it that many people have (which might be called the "household budget" view).

Even an introductory college-level economics course can leave you with the idea that taxes are always bad, if you're not paying close attention or the professor is lazy and doesn't emphasize the difference between surplus and utility, amongst other things.

I can't tell you how annoyed I get when candidates compare the government to a household or worse yet, a business. A business's main goal is to turn a profit. A government's main goal should be to serve it's people. This is obvious to anyone who spends more than 30 seconds thinking about the issue (so not the baggers).

75 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:28:32am

re: #68 sattv4u2

There WAS a deal for just that, a compromised one

the next day, Obama wanted to increase the agreed upon "revenue" package

And,,, where is the budget? The last one he presented was voted down 97-0 in the Dem controlled senate!

Clearly you misunderstand the meaning of "compromise". A "compromise" is something that both parties can agree to.

If you want to make the absurd claim that Democrats would't agree to any cuts, go ahead. I will respond with a picture of your "leaders" raising their hands in unity to reject the possibility of a 10-1 cuts to revenue deal, which I believe is available online.

76 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:29:14am

re: #60 Gus 802

Let's see. Prison labor camps. No abortions. Submissive women. No gay marriage. Private military (Blackwater/XE). No pollution controls. Prison warehousing. Private police departments. National religion. Subscription based fire departments and EMTs. No public libraries. No evolution in science class. No public schools...

Sounds like something from the Twilight Zone.

No, it's the Republic of Gilead.

77 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:30:21am

re: #64 Ericus58

O/T
US Appeal Court Rules that Pres. Obama's Healthcare Law's Individual Mandate to Own Health Insurance Is Unconstitutional (story developing)

wow:

WASHINGTON - An appeals court ruled on Friday that President Barack Obama's healthcare law requiring Americans to buy healthcare insurance or face a penalty was unconstitutional, a blow to the White House.

The Appeals Court for the 11th Circuit, based in Atlanta, found that Congress exceeded its authority by requiring Americans to buy coverage, but also ruled that the rest of the wide-ranging law could remain in effect.

The legality of the so-called individual mandate, a cornerstone of the healthcare law, is widely expected to be decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. The Obama administration has defended the provision as constitutional.

[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

78 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:31:34am

re: #69 sattv4u2

Which court (district?)

Federal court in Atlanta. It might just be one of those ruling that is easily overturned. The wingnuts are judge shopping for favorable rulings so I wouldn't be surprised if this gets thrown out.

79 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:31:40am

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Yeah I forget that all of them except Paul probably want to spend more money on border control.

I think Paul specifically said he would withdraw the troops from foreign countries so that they could "protect our borders and not those of foreign countries" or something like that.

80 Kronocide  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:33:00am

re: #62 sattv4u2

No, we lost our credit rating when 'we' (both parties) decided that the well had no bottom to it
What transpired weeks ago was the bubble finally bursting

No. The downgrade was caused by the petulant children acting recklessly, not because they borrowed more more $. You've bought a simplistic winger meme.

81 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:33:14am

re: #79 000G

I think Paul specifically said he would withdraw the troops from foreign countries so that they could "protect our borders and not those of foreign countries" or something like that.

My mistake for thinking that Paul wasn't a fanatic about immigration. So yeah my point stands, this stuff costs money. It's like they've convinced themselves that social services and security/defense are two totally different budgets who operate independent of each other.

82 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:33:31am

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Federal court in Atlanta. It might just be one of those ruling that is easily overturned. The wingnuts are judge shopping for favorable rulings so I wouldn't be surprised if this gets thrown out.

Well, not everybody that opposes the individual mandate is a wingnut. Fact is, we should have gotten a public option instead.

83 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:33:38am

re: #77 000G

wow:

[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

I know I'll sound totally uninformed, but what is the vague penalty one faces for not buying health insurance? If it's a fine, couldn't this problem have been avoided by making health insurance premiums a tax write-off?

84 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:33:47am

re: #75 iossarian

Clearly you misunderstand the meaning of "compromise". A "compromise" is something that both parties can agree to

I clearly stated there was an agreed deal (between Obama and Boehner)

The next day, Obama wanted to raise the amount agreed in 'revenue" enhancements by 400 billion (iirc, the agreed amount was 800 bil)

If you want to make the absurd claim that Democrats would't agree to any cuts, go ahead

Where did say or even intimate that "Democrats would't agree to any cuts"? Please attribute a point to me, one I never stated and then argue against that point!

85 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:34:44am

re: #78 Killgore Trout

Federal court in Atlanta. It might just be one of those ruling that is easily overturned. The wingnuts are judge shopping for favorable rulings so I wouldn't be surprised if this gets thrown out.

Thanks

So this is the one with the 20 (odd) states all filing together?

86 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:35:17am

re: #84 sattv4u2


Clearly you misunderstand the meaning of "compromise". A "compromise" is something that both parties can agree to

I clearly stated there was an agreed deal (between Obama and Boehner)

The next day, Obama wanted to raise the amount agreed in 'revenue" enhancements by 400 billion (iirc, the agreed amount was 800 bil)

If you want to make the absurd claim that Democrats would't agree to any cuts, go ahead

Where did say or even intimate that "Democrats would't agree to any cuts"? Please DON"T attribute a point to me, one I never stated and then argue against that point!

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:36:16am

Well, apparently the debate did have some effect on voters. I got an e-mail this morning titled IF YOU LOVE ISRAEL FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T VOTE FOR RON PAUL.

88 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:36:37am

There is of course a public option for healthcare in America. It's called prison.

[rimshot]

89 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:37:17am

re: #84 sattv4u2


Clearly you misunderstand the meaning of "compromise". A "compromise" is something that both parties can agree to

I clearly stated there was an agreed deal (between Obama and Boehner)

The next day, Obama wanted to raise the amount agreed in 'revenue" enhancements by 400 billion (iirc, the agreed amount was 800 bil)

If you want to make the absurd claim that Democrats would't agree to any cuts, go ahead

Where did say or even intimate that "Democrats would't agree to any cuts"? Please attribute a point to me, one I never stated and then argue against that point!

Obama =/= Democrats, for starters.

There's a pretty clear path for legislation. Congress makes a bill, President signs it.

Obama tried to work with Boehner because the Senate is entirely fucked up by the fact that a single Republican can prevent anything from passing, even if the Democratic majority in that chamber signed on to it.

The eventual bill was 98% percent favorable to Boehner, and everyone I know who identifies as a Democrat hates it. How is that a compromise?

90 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:37:59am

re: #19 000G

Whatever happened to "We, the people"?

They've rewritten the Constitution to read,

"Us, the Real Americans, in Order to Starve the Beast, insure domestic Theocracy, provide employment for defense industry lobbyists, oppose freeloaders on Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Jesus to ourselves and whoever pays us, do ordain and establish this Constitution for Real America versus Them (you know who they are)."

91 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:38:13am

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, apparently the debate did have some effect on voters. I got an e-mail this morning titled IF YOU LOVE ISRAEL FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T VOTE FOR RON PAUL.

If you love sanity, don't vote for Luap Nor.

92 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:38:19am

Rush on the debate: Every answer should have been "Get rid of Obama"

93 iceweasel  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:38:20am

re: #88 Gus 802

There is of course a public option for healthcare in America. It's called prison.

[rimshot]

Ha!

Then there's this....Man Turns to Crime for Prison Health Care

94 Spocomptonite  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:38:46am

re: #82 Gus 802

Well, not everybody that opposes the individual mandate is a wingnut. Fact is, we should have gotten a public option instead.

I'd prefer the public option to a mandate. And I hope that its the backup plan, if the mandate is ruled unconstitutional by the supreme court.

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:38:54am

re: #92 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush on the debate: Every answer should have been "Get rid of Obama"

I thought it kind of was.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:39:08am

re: #93 iceweasel

Ha!

Then there's this....Man Turns to Crime for Prison Health Care

Wasn't that the plot of an O Henry story?

97 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:39:17am

re: #92 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush on the debate: Every answer should have been "Get rid of Obama"

Paranoid racist buffoon.

98 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:39:41am

re: #93 iceweasel

Ha!

Then there's this....Man Turns to Crime for Prison Health Care

Yeah, I was thinking about him while I was typing. Of course the reality is that prison healthcare is a lot worse than advertised [by the Republicans].

99 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:40:39am

Ah well

The Chiropractor awaits

{snap}
{{crackle}}
{{{pop}}}

ahhhhh!!!!

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:42:05am

re: #98 Gus 802

Yeah, I was thinking about him while I was typing. Of course the reality is that prison healthcare is a lot worse than advertised [by the Republicans].

I know, or know of, a woman who was once FIRED from a dentist's job at San Quentin. Do you know how bad you have to be to get FIRED from a dentist's job at San Quentin? Me neither, but apparently pretty bad.

101 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:42:08am

re: #95 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought it kind of was.

No, they were supposed to specifically say the words "and we need to get rid of Obama" for every response.

102 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:42:15am

re: #83 Atlas Fails

I know I'll sound totally uninformed, but what is the vague penalty one faces for not buying health insurance? If it's a fine, couldn't this problem have been avoided by making health insurance premiums a tax write-off?

Never mind, I looked it up. It's a fine like I thought.

103 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:42:32am

re: #92 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rush on the debate: Every answer should have been "Get rid of Obama"

We don't need policy, just Nobama! You go Rush!

104 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:42:33am

re: #77 000G

Considering that the individual mandate is a major revenue point on the plan, this throws everything else into doubt. It's meant not only to persuade businesses and individuals to buy into the plan or face penalties.

These are set forth at IRC Sec. 5000A
The provision is as follows: impose an annual penalty of $95, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater, on individuals who do not secure insurance; this will rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016. This is an individual limit; families have a limit of $2,085. There are exemptions to the "fine" in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs.

Those penalties generate real revenues - as per the CBO and proponent budget forecasts.

I've always had an issue with how this was treated - it walks like a tax, looks like a tax, and really is a tax (heck, even the IRS is involved in collecting it), but the Administration claims it isn't.

105 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:43:05am

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, apparently the debate did have some effect on voters. I got an e-mail this morning titled IF YOU LOVE ISRAEL FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T VOTE FOR RON PAUL.

Everyone should have already known that without listening to the debate.

106 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:43:34am
107 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:43:38am

Damn,,,was looking at one of the local Atlanta TV station web sites seeing if there was anything about the Circuit Court ruling and came across this

Ten employees at an Atlanta-area company were hospitalized Friday after one of them opened a package containing a threatening note and a suspicious white powder that left that worker with a burning sensation and numbness in the hands, authorities said.

[Link: www.wsbtv.com...]

108 Kragar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:44:13am

re: #103 HappyWarrior

You go Rush!

No, further...keep going...just run till we tell you to stop...

109 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:45:11am

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer wonders if women should be in politics

Leftists are enslaved to drinking? "Liberal" doesn't exactly describe many alcoholics I know.

110 Spocomptonite  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:45:13am

Speaking of healthcare, I'm back from getting my appendix out and being pumped full of painkillers.

It relates to politics, because the iodine-like stuff they used on the area pre-surgery gives my skin the same tone as Boehner's.

111 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:45:44am

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer wonders if women should be in politics

Just a matter of time before he questions whether women should be able to vote or drive. Now on the former, I do remember Ann Coulter as well as a Republican local office seeker in Missouri saying they felt women should lose the right to vote because they didn't like women voter's overall more Democratic/liberal trends. I mean that's just great logic, let's tell people they can't vote because we don't like their politics. Oh and Fischer belongs in Saudi Arabia with his views on women.

112 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:46:13am

re: #109 Atlas Fails

Leftists are enslaved to drinking? "Liberal" doesn't exactly describe many alcoholics I know.

Shit, I misread "driving." Thought that seemed out of place. Proceed to mock, I deserve it.

113 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:46:36am

re: #104 lawhawk

Considering that the individual mandate is a major revenue point on the plan, this throws everything else into doubt. It's meant not only to persuade businesses and individuals to buy into the plan or face penalties.

These are set forth at IRC Sec. 5000A
The provision is as follows: impose an annual penalty of $95, or up to 1% of income, whichever is greater, on individuals who do not secure insurance; this will rise to $695, or 2.5% of income, by 2016. This is an individual limit; families have a limit of $2,085. There are exemptions to the "fine" in cases of financial hardship or religious beliefs.

Those penalties generate real revenues - as per the CBO and proponent budget forecasts.

I've always had an issue with how this was treated - it walks like a tax, looks like a tax, and really is a tax (heck, even the IRS is involved in collecting it), but the Administration claims it isn't.

I'd rather see them end the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Get out of AFPAK and stop wasting money there and in Iraq. I'd also like to see us stop preparing for the invasion of the Klingons and use that money for other things -- i.e. more butter instead of guns. Lots of other things we could be doing to save money like cutting down on US Aid particularly on military aid for every Tom, Dick, and Harry nation out there. But that ties in with preparing for the invasion of the Klingons (which I say sarcastically).

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:46:54am

re: #101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, they were supposed to specifically say the words "and we need to get rid of Obama" for every response.

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam?

115 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:48:04am

re: #110 Spocomptonite

Speaking of healthcare, I'm back from getting my appendix out and being pumped full of painkillers.

It relates to politics, because the iodine-like stuff they used on the area pre-surgery gives my skin the same tone as Boehner's.

Lol. In other news, for all you folks out there who like stories about homophobes being caught with rent boys, here's a story about a homophobe being caught with a rent boy:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

116 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:48:52am

re: #79 000G

I think Paul specifically said he would withdraw the troops from foreign countries so that they could "protect our borders and not those of foreign countries" or something like that.

So does this mean he'll mothball half the Navy so sailors can go walk the desert from California to Texas? ///

Luap Nor has unrealistic view of the US military missions around the world in total. His isolationism doesn't take into account our world interests or the power vacuum we'd leave behind would be filled by more ambitious countries. We have many disaster relief, peace keeping, anti-piracy, and humanitarian missions besides the two wars whose scope and mission are drawing down forces and will be the sole mission of Special Operational Forces and the CIA.

Plus most people don't join the military to walk their own borders in +110 F heat with no law enforcement experience. A huge operation drawing resources that would be better spent on training and reequipping current forces. An operation that would be better handled with ground sensors linked to high powered IR cameras with quick reaction teams rather than a bulky and expensive border fence full of holes.

117 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:48:54am

re: #32 Gus 802

Right. But even if privatized the prison system would need funding from the government since it can't become a for-profit business. The only other way I can see that working would be prison labor and using the profits from that labor to sustain a private prison. Are looking at becoming the next China? Would these Republican candidates support an intense and nation wide prison labor system?

Save oil by reimplementing galley slaves. See, solved two problems with one simple solution!
///

118 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:48:58am

BTW. That DARPA malfunction cost us 300,000,000 dollars. Gone. Poof!

119 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:49:54am

re: #82 Gus 802

Well, not everybody that opposes the individual mandate is a wingnut. Fact is, we should have gotten a public option instead.

Single payer.

120 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:50:09am

re: #109 Atlas Fails

Leftists are enslaved to drinking? "Liberal" doesn't exactly describe many alcoholics I know.

I don't think drinking is limited to any one particular political point of view. I know drunks of every political persuasion.

Geez, I gotta get some new friends.

121 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:50:57am

re: #113 Gus 802

I'd rather see them end the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Get out of AFPAK and stop wasting money there and in Iraq. I'd also like to see us stop preparing for the invasion of the Klingons and use that money for other things -- i.e. more butter instead of guns. Lots of other things we could be doing to save money like cutting down on US Aid particularly on military aid for every Tom, Dick, and Harry nation out there. But that ties in with preparing for the invasion of the Klingons (which I say sarcastically).

Besides, the Brigadier has already noticed that all alien menaces are immune to bullets.

;)

122 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:51:35am

re: #118 Gus 802

Why build one when you can build two at twice the price? /S.R. Hadden

123 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:51:41am

re: #115 iossarian

Lol. In other news, for all you folks out there who like stories about homophobes being caught with rent boys, here's a story about a homophobe being caught with a rent boy:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

I saw this on one of the pages. More family values huh. This stuff wouldn't be so annoying if these guys weren't demeaning gay people to get elected.

124 Spocomptonite  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:52:17am

re: #122 lawhawk

Why build one when you can build two at twice the price? /S.R. Hadden

That was a good movie

125 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:52:32am

Wait Fischer tried to make alcoholism in to a liberal illness. Hahahahhaahaha excuse me hahahha and besides everyone knows we're not drunks, we're potheads. Silly Bryan, Trix is for kids not stupid jackasses.

126 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:52:45am

re: #120 Charleston Chew

I don't think drinking is limited to any one particular political point of view. I know drunks of every political persuasion.

Geez, I gotta get some new friends.

Some druggies?
/

127 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:52:52am

re: #115 iossarian

Lol. In other news, for all you folks out there who like stories about homophobes being caught with rent boys, here's a story about a homophobe being caught with a rent boy:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Every time this happens, an angel gets its wings.

128 webevintage  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:54:35am

re: #62 sattv4u2

No, we lost our credit rating when 'we' (both parties) decided that the well had no bottom to it
What transpired weeks ago was the bubble finally bursting

Oh look, it's the Magical Balance Fairy....

129 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:55:29am

re: #115 iossarian

Lol. In other news, for all you folks out there who like stories about homophobes being caught with rent boys, here's a story about a homophobe being caught with a rent boy:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

So how long now before he finds Jesus and makes the rounds on the 700 Club and Hagee's spewfest?

130 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:55:30am

re: #128 webevintage

Oh look, it's the Magical Balance Fairy...

Seeing I mentioned "both parties", I would say so, and aptly

Thanks!!

131 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:55:37am

re: #115 iossarian

Lol. In other news, for all you folks out there who like stories about homophobes being caught with rent boys, here's a story about a homophobe being caught with a rent boy:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Those Wings Nuts sure do love their families as beards.

132 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:56:05am

re: #109 Atlas Fails

Leftists are enslaved to drinking? "Liberal" doesn't exactly describe many alcoholics I know.

Yeah. America and drinking. Sort of like that long tradition of leftists with their "still" and making and running moonshine. Every last one of 'em. Plus everybody knows that the Chicago mob were really a bunch of Communists.

//

133 iossarian  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:56:27am

re: #129 Atlas Fails

So how long now before he finds Jesus and makes the rounds on the 700 Club and Hagee's spewfest?

Maybe he can help shovel some more Medicaid money to the Bachmann family.

134 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:56:40am

re: #130 sattv4u2

Seeing I mentioned "both parties", I would say so, and aptly

Thanks!!

Comment comprehension fail.

135 3CPO  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:56:48am

Crap. I had a dinner party last night. If I had known about the debate, I would have recorded it.

What was the funniest part? I'm assuming there were no "Coke or Pepsi" questions.

136 iceweasel  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:57:09am

re: #132 Gus 802

Yeah. America and drinking. Sort of like that long tradition of leftists with their "still" and making and running moonshine. Every last one of 'em. Plus everybody knows that the Chicago mob were really a bunch of Communists.

//

Collectivism, Comrade!

137 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:57:21am

And nothing says LEFTIST!!11ty like Lynard Skynard, 38 Special and a big old bottle of Jack Daniels.

//

138 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:57:32am

re: #134 Atlas Fails

Comment comprehension fail.

Not at all,,,

But for you, next time I'll add a "/" so you'll know!

139 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:58:30am

re: #135 3CPO

Crap. I had a dinner party last night. If I had known about the debate, I would have recorded it.

What was the funniest part? I'm assuming there were no "Coke or Pepsi" questions.

Luap Nor was his usual self. Bachmann had a crazy staring contest with the viewers at home. I've still got chills from it.

140 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:58:52am

I find no comfort in this

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Casey Anthony must return to Orlando within two weeks to serve a year's probation for check fraud, a Florida judge ruled Friday.

141 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:58:52am

Yeah the Bacardi Company which fled Cuba due to Castro are a bunch of Marxists. Oh and I wonder how the Coors family feels about this one. The Coors family has for years advocated for conservative and Republican politics. I imagine they're shocked too that they're liberals in Bryan Fischer's book. What a lameass man.

142 nines09  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:59:14am

re: #13 BigPapa

Pinching off taxation is their only hope of reducing government. All the other methods are too hard and complex.

They just want to reduce what they don't like. Big government is fine as long as it's their big government.

143 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 10:59:56am

And other "leftists" like Joseph Coors, the Budweiser family, John McCain's wife. Booze is a leftist tradition.

//

144 iceweasel  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:00:12am

re: #142 nines09

They just want to reduce what they don't like. Big government is fine as long as it's their big government.

..but small enough to fit in your uterus!

145 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:01:07am

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Yeah the Bacardi Company which fled Cuba due to Castro are a bunch of Marxists. Oh and I wonder how the Coors family feels about this one. The Coors family has for years advocated for conservative and Republican politics. I imagine they're shocked too that they're liberals in Bryan Fischer's book. What a lameass man.

Don't forget the Monks and their concoctions and the proverbial Catholic priests and their red wine. Leftists I tells ya'! Every last one of 'em!

//

146 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:02:08am

Bryan Fischer: idiot.

147 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:02:18am

re: #138 sattv4u2

Not at all,,,

But for you, next time I'll add a "/" so you'll know!

It's hard to tell with righties anymore. Normally when someone calls the OBL raid an illegal assassination or starts a pro-life dick measuring contest, it can be assumed they're being sarcastic, but last night's debate proved otherwise.

148 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:02:36am

re: #145 Gus 802

Don't forget the Monks and their concoctions and the proverbial Catholic priests and their red wine. Leftists I tells ya'! Every last one of 'em!

//

((( I got a tip for you,,,,, it's not very good wine ,,, that's why everyone just takes a sip out of politeness to the host, and doesn't empty the chalice)

149 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:04:20am

re: #147 Atlas Fails

It's hard to tell with righties anymore. Normally when someone calls the OBL raid an illegal assassination or starts a pro-life dick measuring contest, it can be assumed they're being sarcastic, but last night's debate proved otherwise.

No problem. Chalk it up to you being here a short time

I'm not one that uses the "" often because most here know over the years and can tell without it!

150 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:04:39am

I mean it's hysterical more than anything that Fischer thinks drinking is a leftist thing. Were the founders radical leftists too, Bryan? I know that George Washington loved his brandy and Thomas Jefferson his wine.

151 Decatur Deb  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:04:47am

re: #148 sattv4u2

((( I got a tip for you,,, it's not very good wine ,,, that's why everyone just takes a sip out of politeness to the host, and doesn't empty the chalice)

We altar boys like to think of it as "gateway wine".

152 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:05:10am

re: #149 sattv4u2

No problem. Chalk it up to you being here a short time

I'm not one that uses the "" often because most here know ME FROM over the years and can tell without it!


geeez ,,, these pain pills really DO work!!

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:05:30am

Democrats Enjoy Slight Edge on 2012 Congressional Ballot

Gallup's first measure of the 2012 congressional elections shows Democrats leading Republicans, 51% to 44%, in registered voters' preferences for which party's candidate they would support in their district "if the elections for Congress were being held today."

Check out the trend over the past 6 months...
Image: mcaf4abaleymmsl13eq7aw.gif

154 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:05:57am

re: #149 sattv4u2

No problem. Chalk it up to you being here a short time

I'm not one that uses the "" often because most here know over the years and can tell without it!

Good to know you're not a wingnut, just an average misguided conservative :)

155 nines09  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:06:33am

re: #144 iceweasel

Small enough to be condensed into a single book. Want guess which one?

156 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:06:40am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

I mean it's hysterical more than anything that Fischer thinks drinking is a leftist thing. Were the founders radical leftists too, Bryan? I know that George Washington loved his brandy and Thomas Jefferson his wine.

I think that was amended from DRINKING to DRIVING

From the link

They (leftists) are enslaved to a driving, brooding passion to destroy, and the more attractive the conservative woman is, the more it feeds their blood lust. As captives to this dark, driving vitriol, they can't help themselves

157 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:06:48am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

I mean it's hysterical more than anything that Fischer thinks drinking is a leftist thing. Were the founders radical leftists too, Bryan? I know that George Washington loved his brandy and Thomas Jefferson his wine.

Yeah. All those Marines on leave getting drunker than a skunk. Those Army boys on a bender after their deployment comes to an end. Sailors on shore leave. See all those guys? Leftists they are!!

//

158 allegro  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:07:04am

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer wonders if women should be in politics

The danger to the woman here is that every time she punches back, which she must do, she hardens a little bit of her soul and sacrifices a little bit of her femininity. I'm not sure that's a good trade.

His problem sounds more like he's worried he'll have to stop punching women or HE will be getting punched back. Much better to keep women submissive and fearful.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:07:59am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

I mean it's hysterical more than anything that Fischer thinks drinking is a leftist thing. Were the founders radical leftists too, Bryan? I know that George Washington loved his brandy and Thomas Jefferson his wine.

Jefferson could be considered a radical leftist.

160 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:08:08am

re: #154 Atlas Fails

Good to know you're not a wingnut, just an average misguided conservative :)

I am? Wow,,, I did not know that "misguided conservatives" don't have a problem with gay marriage, abortion, and a myriad of other "progressive" issues!

(((just for you >>> \

161 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:08:33am

re: #156 sattv4u2

I think that was amended from DRINKING to DRIVING

From the link

They (leftists) are enslaved to a driving, brooding passion to destroy, and the more attractive the conservative woman is, the more it feeds their blood lust. As captives to this dark, driving vitriol, they can't help themselves

All I can say is, that's just weird. How does he come up with such perverted ideas? The only reason is because he's speaking from his own voice and his own thoughts. He's projecting.

162 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:09:18am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

I mean it's hysterical more than anything that Fischer thinks drinking is a leftist thing. Were the founders radical leftists too, Bryan? I know that George Washington loved his brandy and Thomas Jefferson his wine.

I think historical records of the founding fathers victory alone consumed an ass-load amount of alcohol. See #4.

163 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:09:34am

re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist

Jefferson could be considered a radical leftist.

Yeah David Barton's history books ignore him and I believe Barton's exact words were that John Knox or Calvin (forget whom) was more important to American history than Thomas Jefferson which is uh laughable for reasons I don't need to get into. At least Barton doesn't try to claim Jefferson as one of his own I guess which is at least honest though ignoring him is not.

164 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:10:39am

re: #156 sattv4u2

I think that was amended from DRINKING to DRIVING

From the link

They (leftists) are enslaved to a driving, brooding passion to destroy, and the more attractive the conservative woman is, the more it feeds their blood lust. As captives to this dark, driving vitriol, they can't help themselves

Yeah, I fucked that one up. Didn't get much sleep last night lol.

165 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:11:15am

re: #161 Gus 802

All I can say is, that's just weird. How does he come up with such perverted ideas? The only reason is because he's speaking from his own voice and his own thoughts. He's projecting.

I know

Me,, I take a consensus of the voices in my head

Problem is, one of them speaks Mandarin Chinese, another Hittite, and yet another just signs, and I have NO clue what any of them are saying!

166 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:11:38am

re: #157 Gus 802

Yeah. All those Marines on leave getting drunker than a skunk. Those Army boys on a bender after their deployment comes to an end. Sailors on shore leave. See all those guys? Leftists they are!!

//

They should have seen us pull into Phuket, Thailand back in 2002. I had a 3 day hangover and I was one of the more sober Marines.

167 Spocomptonite  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:11:39am

re: #160 sattv4u2

I am? Wow,,, I did not know that "misguided conservatives" don't have a problem with gay marriage, abortion, and a myriad of other "progressive" issues!

(((just for you >>>

I'd say that blaming both parties for the debt downgrade is a sure sign of misguidedness, regardless of your other positions.

168 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:12:03am

Yep. And we all know how hunky dory the right wing was to Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Geraldine Ferraro. Oh that's right. The right wingnuts didn't think they were "attractive" enough. You ever notice how the right wing is always bringing up the "attractiveness" of their female politicians? It's bizarre.

169 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:12:12am

re: #160 sattv4u2

I am? Wow,,, I did not know that "misguided conservatives" don't have a problem with gay marriage, abortion, and a myriad of other "progressive" issues!

(((just for you >>>

So you're a fiscal conservative/libertarian? I can live with that. At least you guys are consistent.

170 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:12:57am

re: #164 Atlas Fails

Yeah, I fucked that one up. Didn't get much sleep last night lol.

Yet you accuse ME of "comprehension fail"

Physician, Heal Thyself!!!

171 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:13:17am

re: #169 Atlas Fails

So you're a fiscal conservative/libertarian? I can live with that. At least you guys are consistent.

Not really

I'm a true Mutt

I'm all over the board

172 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:15:38am

re: #171 sattv4u2

Not really

I'm a true Mutt

I'm all over the board

Your text to link...

173 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:16:40am

re: #168 Gus 802

Yep. And we all know how hunky dory the right wing was to Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Geraldine Ferraro. Oh that's right. The right wingnuts didn't think they were "attractive" enough. You ever notice how the right wing is always bringing up the "attractiveness" of their female politicians? It's bizarre.

I remember Palin being referred to by conservatives as a VPILF and GILF but it was her liberal critics who criticized her policy, experience, and intelligence that were the misogynist ones. So, yeah I have noticed that. It is bizarre. I see conservatives and to another extent liberals convince themselves that only their women can be beautiful physically. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in politics.

174 Lidane  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:16:50am

re: #168 Gus 802

You ever notice how the right wing is always bringing up the "attractiveness" of their female politicians? It's bizarre.

Because they don't want female politicians. They want spokesmodels who just stand there and parrot the talking points.

175 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:17:58am

re: #172 Atlas Fails

Your text to link...

ugh,,,,, did I tell you I'm also "old"

Have any Stan Kenton, or Tommy Dorsey??
AND GET OFF MY LAWN

176 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:19:26am

re: #172 Atlas Fails

Your text to link...

To make up for that abomination from my middle school days...

177 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:19:57am

re: #175 sattv4u2

ugh,,, did I tell you I'm also "old"

Have any Stan Kenton, or Tommy Dorsey??
AND GET OFF MY LAWN

You're the last WWI veteran at LGF.

//

178 iceweasel  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:20:13am

re: #168 Gus 802

You ever notice how the right wing is always bringing up the "attractiveness" of their female politicians? It's bizarre.

Not at all. Women have only one metric for their value in the wingnut world, and that's it.

179 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:21:34am

re: #177 Gus 802

You're the last WWI veteran at LGF.

//

They wouldn't take me then

I was too old!

180 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:22:52am

re: #178 iceweasel

Not at all. Women have only one metric for their value in the wingnut world, and that's it.

Right. I'm sure you've seen their image collages. Right Wing News has the worst of it. The left side will have Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug, and on the right they'll have Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. Really immature stuff. They've also done hunks of the right wing blogs too.

181 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:24:01am

re: #180 Gus 802

Right. I'm sure you've seen their image collages. Right Wing News has the worst of it. The left side will have Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug, and on the right they'll have Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. Really immature stuff. They've also done hunks of the right wing blogs too.

Hunks on blogs? Everyone know there are no hot bloggers.

182 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:24:04am

re: #180 Gus 802

Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug,

Stop it

I'm getting hot!

183 Locker  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:24:14am

If you give a spoiled child whatever they want and allow them to hold up everyone else until they are satisfied it's a bomb waiting to go off. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

184 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:25:09am

re: #180 Gus 802

Right. I'm sure you've seen their image collages. Right Wing News has the worst of it. The left side will have Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug, and on the right they'll have Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. Really immature stuff. They've also done hunks of the right wing blogs too.

I was just about to mention that one. And honestly as a guy, I can't see at all what they find physically attractive about Ann Coulter, Malkin sure, they're both revolting politically but Malkin isn't too bad on the eyes. You know Democratic wise, I think Kirsten Gillbrand from New York is an attractive woman. I loved that she took a strong stand in favor of gay marriage too even though her home political base is more socially conservative upstate NY.

185 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:25:13am

re: #182 sattv4u2

Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug,

Stop it

I'm getting hot!

Hot.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:25:37am

re: #180 Gus 802

Right. I'm sure you've seen their image collages. Right Wing News has the worst of it. The left side will have Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug, and on the right they'll have Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. Really immature stuff. They've also done hunks of the right wing blogs too.

I wonder if some of that is anxiety over Hollywood lefties. "Look! We also have pretty people! We also have pretty people!"

187 iceweasel  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:25:52am

re: #183 Locker

Locker baby! S'up? Jimmah is playing Doom but says hi.

188 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:27:42am

re: #180 Gus 802

Right. I'm sure you've seen their image collages. Right Wing News has the worst of it. The left side will have Helen Thomas, Bella Abzug, and on the right they'll have Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter. Really immature stuff. They've also done hunks of the right wing blogs too.

Pamela Geller!

189 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:28:02am

re: #186 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if some of that is anxiety over Hollywood lefties. "Look! We also have pretty people! We also have pretty people!"

Probably so. I'm sure there's a chicken and egg thing that went on here too. They all need to cut it out. It's dumb, sophomoric, high school.

190 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:28:59am

re: #184 HappyWarrior

I was just about to mention that one. And honestly as a guy, I can't see at all what they find physically attractive about Ann Coulter, Malkin sure, they're both revolting politically but Malkin isn't too bad on the eyes. You know Democratic wise, I think Kirsten Gillbrand from New York is an attractive woman. I loved that she took a strong stand in favor of gay marriage too even though her home political base is more socially conservative upstate NY.

Ann Coulter is a transvestite. Isn't it obvious? "She" has a prominent Adam's apple, no boobs, and is totally TEH GHEY!
//

191 Idle Drifter  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:30:15am

re: #185 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hot.

Right back at you. Image: wiig%20bachmann%20stare.jpg

192 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:30:19am
193 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:30:36am

re: #190 Alouette

Ann Coulter is a transvestite. Isn't it obvious? "She" has a prominent Adam's apple, no boobs, and is totally TEH GHEY!
//

I hate that too. Calling Coulter a transvestite is dumb.

194 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:30:37am

re: #187 iceweasel

Locker baby! S'up? Jimmah is playing Doom but says hi.

The original Doom?

195 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:30:56am

re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar

Right Wing Hottie.

Yeah she's attractive to me, Coulter less so. As I said I ain't blind :).

196 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:31:25am

re: #191 Idle Drifter

Right back at you. Image: wiig%20bachmann%20stare.jpg

Yeah,,, but every so often, she closes her eyes

OTOH ,,, Helen can't close her face!!!!

:)

//

197 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:31:45am

re: #190 Alouette

Ann Coulter is a transvestite. Isn't it obvious? "She" has a prominent Adam's apple, no boobs, and is totally TEH GHEY!
//

Yeah that's lame too. Besides Coulter could be stunningly beautiful and you know what she'd still be overall an unattractive person for all the crap she says.

198 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:31:54am

re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar

Right Wing Hottie.

And she's married to Alan Colmes iirc

199 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:32:23am

re: #198 sattv4u2

And she's married to Alan Colmes iirc

YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!!!

200 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:33:10am

Really gotta scooot now

Chiropractor appt at 3:30, and I'm sure he would appreciate it if I showered 1st

201 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:33:19am

re: #194 Varek Raith

The original Doom?

DOS?

//

202 Atlas Fails  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:33:48am

Oh my good fucking grief. Now Coulter, Norquist, and Breitbart are RINOs in the eyes of Weird Nuts Daily.

203 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:34:17am

re: #198 sattv4u2

And she's married to Alan Colmes iirc

Her sister is.

204 subsailor68  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:34:26am

re: #198 sattv4u2

And she's married to Alan Colmes iirc

Hi sattv4u2.

Actually, I believe Colmes is married to her sister. Fun times at Thanksgiving dinner!

205 Gus  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:34:36am

re: #202 Atlas Fails

Oh my good fucking grief. Now Coulter, Norquist, and Breitbart are RINOs in the eyes of Weird Nuts Daily.

Let me guess. For teh ghey stuff?

206 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:36:25am

re: #204 subsailor68

Hi sattv4u2.

Actually, I believe Colmes is married to her sister. Fun times at Thanksgiving dinner!

Shit, look at James Carville and Mary Matalin. A Clinton loyalist and Cheney's former Chief of Staff. My old man met Carville at a catering function he worked on. Have to say, even though he's too tied to the Clintons politically for me, I like James Carville. Just seems like he'd be a fun guy to shoot the shit over a nice glass of bourbon. Plus he was in Old School and Wedding Crashers, that alone makes him cool in my book.

207 sattv4u2  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 11:37:18am

re: #203 Varek Raith

re: #204 subsailor68

Thanks guys

So is Image: s-MONICA-CROWLEY-large.jpg available!?!?!?

:)

208 SmithCommaJohn  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 12:05:38pm

Say what you like about Ron Paul, but I seriously think he's onto something with his idea to peg the U.S. dollar to the price of squirrel pelts.

209 Bulworth  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 2:23:24pm

I tend to assume that candidates in a debate know the questions ahead of time, but I'm starting to wonder whether they knew this question was coming. The response in unison is just so dumb, it had to be spontaneous. Right? Although I guess even if only reflective and not thought out, that in itself is revealing. In a bad way.

210 jhrhv  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 2:34:52pm

Jon Stewart is going to be editing the material from last night all weekend. Monday will probably be a side splitter. I can hardly wait.

211 Areopagitica  Fri, Aug 12, 2011 4:09:45pm

The new GOP pledge:

"I pledge alliegence to Good ole Grover and the Articles of Confederation.
And to this theocracy for which the tea sac-ers stand,
one nation, ruled by Jesus, liberty of contract;
with debt and idiocy for all."

I'm calling all these GOP duds "anti-constitutionalists."...bear with me, but originally we had the articles of confederation which created such a weak and paralyzed centralized government that the founders did an end run around it, called the convention in 1787, and drafted a more effective (sort of) structure of government.

Now Perry, Bachmann, and these other twits enslaved to Grover (not the Seaseme Street Grover), want to basically shrink the government to where it almost doesn't exist just like, in my opinion, the AOC had it. Therefore they are against a stronger central Hamiltonian, and possibly even a Jeffersonian government, and want to rewrite the constitution into a model more akin to it's ineffective predecessor.

Hey Michele Bachmann, Pawlenty, Sanitorium...you anti-constitutionalists you

212 funky chicken  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 8:14:45am

re: #88 Gus 802

There is of course a public option for healthcare in America. It's called prison.

[rimshot]

Don't forget the military. Of course you can't have any preexisting conditions and make it into the military, and they will send you to Afghanistan, but hey, you will get to see a doctor.

213 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Aug 13, 2011 8:24:38am

re: #211 Areopagitica

The new GOP pledge:

"I pledge alliegence to Good ole Grover and the Articles of Confederation.
And to this theocracy for which the tea sac-ers stand,
one nation, ruled by Jesus, liberty of contract;
with debt and idiocy for all."

I'm calling all these GOP duds "anti-constitutionalists."...bear with me, but originally we had the articles of confederation which created such a weak and paralyzed centralized government that the founders did an end run around it, called the convention in 1787, and drafted a more effective (sort of) structure of government.

Now Perry, Bachmann, and these other twits enslaved to Grover (not the Seaseme Street Grover), want to basically shrink the government to where it almost doesn't exist just like, in my opinion, the AOC had it. Therefore they are against a stronger central Hamiltonian, and possibly even a Jeffersonian government, and want to rewrite the constitution into a model more akin to it's ineffective predecessor.

Hey Michele Bachmann, Pawlenty, Sanitorium...you anti-constitutionalists you

It is worse than that, the current Tea Party is nothing short of total anarchism in a very thin disguise. Eliminate government oversight of business, the environment, education, and the financial markets. Cut taxes even further even though they are already at historic post war lows to further "starve the beast" and then eliminate all social spending because "we can't pay for it."

Say goodbye to medicare, medicaid, social security, aid to families with dependent children, workers compensation benefits, food stamps, etc, etc... They are literally advocating a "Every man for himself" form of non-government as the solution to this countries financial problems.

Gee and here I always thought that "Mad Max" was fiction and not a documentary.
/


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