Rick Perry: The Most Successful Creationist Governor in America

Perry wants your kids to be creationists too
Religion • Views: 34,371

(Credit: Gus 802.)At LGF we’ve been following the career of Texas Governor Rick Perry for years, often focusing on one of his “achievements” that has so far mostly eluded the mainstream media: Perry is undoubtedly the most determined, persistent, and outrageously overt creationist in the Republican Party, and arguably one of the most successful at getting creationist nonsense taught to everyone’s children in Texas public schools.

One of Perry’s most outrageous appointments in this regard was the man he personally chose — twice — to head the Texas State Board of Education: Don McLeroy, a dentist and strict Biblical creationist, who very aggressively promoted all brands of creationism. Call it “young Earth creationism,” “intelligent design,” whatever; McLeroy would mix it all up into a toxic anti-scientific stew, without regard for logic or internal consistency.

We’ve had a number of posts on McLeroy’s incredibly dishonest creationist agenda. It’s almost shocking that someone this unqualified was put in charge of the education of kids in Texas, but this is what happens when religious fanatics become Governors.

Here are some of our posts featuring Rick Perry’s chosen leader of education:

Collapse of a Texas Quote Mine

Texas Governor Perry Reappoints Creationist As Head of Education

The Creationist in Charge of Texas Education

Video: The Creationist in Charge of Education in Texas

Return of the Texas Taliban: Schoolbooks Are Anti-Christian

Once McLeroy was the head of the SBOE, of course, he made sure that other fundamentalists and creationists were also on the board, so that when it came time to vote for ignorance, ignorance would win.

And when Don McLeroy was finally voted out of office, what did Rick Perry do? You can probably already guess: he appointed another creationist.

Texas Gets Another Creationist School Board Leader

The extent of Perry’s promotion of extreme Christian theology goes far beyond his advocacy of creationism, of course. But any American citizen concerned about the state of science education should be horrified at the idea of this man becoming President.

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451 comments
1 Iwouldprefernotto  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 11:58:29am

I think he’s running for VP (Under Mitt). He’ll play the Sarah Palin role perfectly and Obama will be reelected. Perry will return in 2016. That’s my prediction and I’m sticking with it.

2 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 11:58:43am

and Texas ts just one state….I’m actually beginning to fear these people because the damage they can do is nearly unlimited…this shit gets entrenched and becomes ever more difficult to get rid of down the road…onward Christian soldiers

3 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:00:00pm

Go after this guy hard, Charles. We can’t afford a mistake like this smarmy punk becoming president.

4 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:00:43pm

Documented facts are the works of the Devil. Vote Perry because Jesus wants it.

5 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:02:11pm

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Documented facts are the works of the Devil. Vote Perry because Jesus wants it.

LOL. You better avoid thunderstorms for awhile. If I had to guess, I’d say Jesus would resent the association.

6 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:03:22pm

Texas is home to so many tech companies that these companies should be shouting to the rooftops that such an anti-science campaign will have nothing but detrimental effects to the long term competitive advantage that TX holds versus other places in the US or worldwide.

You can’t have a credible science curriculum if you’re pushing creationism into science classrooms and denying that the science of evolution is sound. These people are behind the Vatican, which also supports the science of evolution.

If you don’t have an educated populace that understands the critical concepts of science - how can you create the next generation of thinkers, scientists, researchers, and technologists who develop the new technologies that will drive the global marketplace.

No, what Perry is continuing to do is push a religious agenda into the science classroom where it does not belong. You want creationism in classrooms, put it in comparative religion classes where it belongs - not in a science classroom*.

*If you want to put it in a science classroom as a way of showing how creationism/ID isn’t a testable theory, isn’t science, and requires leaps of faith rather than sound scientific principle, I’m for that.

7 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:03:35pm

re: #5 Rightwingconspirator

LOL. You better avoid thunderstorms for awhile. If I had to guess, I’d say Jesus would resent the association.

Jesus: “Don’t look at me. I’m not with those assholes.”

8 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:05:58pm

Nice photoshop. good work Gus.

9 iossarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:06:26pm

re: #6 lawhawk

It’s a shame that the wealthy people pulling the strings in the GOP don’t give a shit for the long-term future of the country, and are quite happy to back a theocrat as long as he’s a tax-cutting theocrat.

10 Atlas Fails  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:06:33pm

People like Perry make me sad, because their literal interpretation of the Bible that makes it read like a dry history textbook (which it obviously isn’t) ignores what it truly is: a beautiful collection of poetry, parables, philosophical writings and, yes, some interesting perspective of historical events. It’s like reading the SparkNotes of Hamlet; yeah you know what happens, but you don’t experience it the way the author(s) intended.

11 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:07:02pm

re: #6 lawhawk

Texas is home to so many tech companies that these companies should be shouting to the rooftops that such an anti-science campaign will have nothing but detrimental effects to the long term competitive advantage that TX holds versus other places in the US or worldwide.

You can’t have a credible science curriculum if you’re pushing creationism into science classrooms and denying that the science of evolution is sound. These people are behind the Vatican, which also supports the science of evolution.

If you don’t have an educated populace that understands the critical concepts of science - how can you create the next generation of thinkers, scientists, researchers, and technologists who develop the new technologies that will drive the global marketplace.

No, what Perry is continuing to do is push a religious agenda into the science classroom where it does not belong. You want creationism in classrooms, put it in comparative religion classes where it belongs - not in a science classroom*.

*If you want to put it in a science classroom as a way of showing how creationism/ID isn’t a testable theory, isn’t science, and requires leaps of faith rather than sound scientific principle, I’m for that.

The next country that will dominate science will be China.

12 Gus  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:07:43pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Nice photoshop. good work Gus.

Thanks. Was just passing through right now and saw that. Trying to figure out a Wifi/Wireless problem on my end.

13 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:09:07pm

re: #12 Gus 802

Thanks. Was just passing through right now and saw that. Trying to figure out a Wifi/Wireless problem on my end.

You might have an antenna shoved too far up your end.

14 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:09:33pm

re: #11 b_sharp

The next country that will dominate science will be China.

Pfff, you’re just saying that because they stress things like math and sciences instead of the important things like prayers in school and teaching myths as valid scientific theory.

15 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:10:02pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

I think he’s running for VP (Under Mitt). He’ll play the Sarah Palin role perfectly and Obama will be reelected. Perry will return in 2016. That’s my prediction and I’m sticking with it.

Someone should tell them, because as I predicted they’ve already started to focus on attacking each other.

Specifically when it comes to Perry, Romney said that “having worked in the real economy is finally essential in the White House,” CNN reported.

…

“Take a look at his record when he was governor. Take a look at my record,” Perry responded, according to a New York Times reporter.

It’s just beginning, both men are running for the nomination or nothing else. When this is over there’ll be little but scorched earth left between them.

16 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:10:38pm

re: #6 lawhawk

Speaking of things having a detrimental long-term effect on Texas…

Approaching record drought, Texas water districts consider oil and gas industry use

In the midst of the second-worst drought in Texas history, towns across the state are going to extreme measures to cope, capping residential water use, and limiting the number of days households can water their lawns. Earlier this week, the West Texas town of Kemp ran out of water.
…
But oil and gas producers are injecting millions of gallons of freshwater into the ground at a time, with hydraulic fracturing jobs in every corner of the state
…
Even while downplaying risks of water contamination, industry officials have said the state’s water shortage could choke Texas’ growing natural gas industry, and some operators have begun preparing for tighter regulation of their water usage.

But with a patchwork of state agencies and local water conservation districts responsible for Texas’ water use — and state laws that exempt much of the oil and gas industry — it’s a mystery just how much water is being pumped into the ground for hydrofracking, or how the state could limit industry’s water use.

“Whiskey’s for drinkin’, water’s for fighting fracking”.

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:11:44pm

Perry is not vying for second spot, he sees Mitt as the ideal VP candidate. he has the message that the GOp and the Tea Party wants to spread: American exceptionalism, Family Values, low taxes and lax regulations and jobs. jobs, jobs.

This message loans itself to bullet points, sound bytes and 30-second spots.

Refuting his positions takes whole paragraphs of text or arguments that can be dasily interrupted and shut down with a standard talking point.

One he has managed to position himself as the Great White Hope (and I use the term most literally) of the GOP then nobody in the party will dare criticize him and even the MSM will handle him with kid gloves for fear of backlash.

18 Gus  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:13:45pm

re: #13 b_sharp

You might have an antenna shoved too far up your end.

If only it were that easy. ;) Anyway, gotta take care of some stuff. Later folks.

19 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:14:22pm

re: #8 Killgore Trout

Nice photoshop. good work Gus.

Just look at the size of that melon on top of those shoulders. How does he get through a doorway?

20 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:17:25pm

re: #17 ralphieboyRefuting his positions takes whole paragraphs of text or arguments that can be dasily interrupted and shut down with a standard talking point.


Class warfare!

21 leftynyc  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:19:07pm

Creationists on the board of education? I’m shaking my head at the stupidity of this. Please continue to post these stories - I have plenty of people who need to see them and just see him as an amiable conservative.

22 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:20:16pm

re: #17 ralphieboy

Perry is not vying for second spot, he sees Mitt as the ideal VP candidate. he has the message that the GOp and the Tea Party wants to spread: American exceptionalism, Family Values, low taxes and lax regulations and jobs. jobs, jobs.

This message loans itself to bullet points, sound bytes and 30-second spots.

Refuting his positions takes whole paragraphs of text or arguments that can be dasily interrupted and shut down with a standard talking point.

One he has managed to position himself as the Great White Hope (and I use the term most literally) of the GOP then nobody in the party will dare criticize him and even the MSM will handle him with kid gloves for fear of backlash.

The Great White Hope.

23 SpaceJesus  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:20:54pm

Haven’t we already seen this shit before? Wasn’t this called George W. Bush about a decade ago?

24 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:21:44pm

Why stop with Evolution? Lets apply their logic to all fields.

Image: CreationismBothTheories.gif

25 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:23:08pm

re: #21 leftynyc

Creationists on the board of education? I’m shaking my head at the stupidity of this. Please continue to post these stories - I have plenty of people who need to see them and just see him as an amiable conservative.

Here’s another handy link to Perry info from Texas Freedom Network:
[Link: www.tfn.org…]

26 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:23:26pm

re: #23 SpaceJesus

Haven’t we already seen this shit before? Wasn’t this called George W. Bush about a decade ago?

Texans have pointed out here that Perry = Bush with a mean streak.

As much as I disagreed with W, he never scared me as much as the prospect of Perry sitting in the Big Chair does.

27 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:24:14pm

re: #23 SpaceJesus

Haven’t we already seen this shit before? Wasn’t this called George W. Bush about a decade ago?

This guy is a lot worse than Bush in almost every measure.

28 SpaceJesus  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:24:24pm

re: #26 makeitstop

Mainstream German news is calling Perry exactly what he is in their headlines: “Die radikale kopie des George Bush”

29 Atlas Fails  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:25:06pm

re: #23 SpaceJesus

Haven’t we already seen this shit before? Wasn’t this called George W. Bush about a decade ago?

No matter how much they deny it, you will never convince me that the teabaggers are anything but rabid Bush supporters who are so ashamed of backing the worst president since Andrew Johnson that they’ve taken to dressing up like Paul Revere and hanging teabags from their three-cornered hats. (Note to teabaggers: this is not a good way to shake off embarrassment.)

30 Big Steve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:25:53pm

re: #6 lawhawk

Texas is home to so many tech companies that these companies should be shouting to the rooftops that such an anti-science campaign will have nothing but detrimental effects to the long term competitive advantage that TX holds versus other places in the US or worldwide.


So I have credibility here…..I actually worked on Bill White’s campaign against Perry. However I will say that there WAS sustained opposition to the SBOE science curriculum changes. Youngest son of Big Steve actually was invited to testify in front of the SBOE in that he had just won the overall Texas State Science fair a few months early and he gave a good speech and I was proud of him. Also keep in mind that not one of the religious right agenda items actually passed. So we can express concern about the process of the Texas SBOE but not the outcome.

31 SpaceJesus  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:26:09pm

re: #29 Atlas Fails

And they are all adamant that they are not fans of Bush and his policies…yet every one of them voted for him — twice.

32 leftynyc  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:26:09pm

re: #25 jaunte

Here’s another handy link to Perry info from Texas Freedom Network:
[Link: www.tfn.org…]


And now I have shivers running up my spine. Especially seeing the media slobber all over him.

33 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:26:17pm

Yeee Haw!

34 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:26:27pm

re: #16 publicityStunted

Speaking of things having a detrimental long-term effect on Texas…

Approaching record drought, Texas water districts consider oil and gas industry use

“Whiskey’s for drinkin’, water’s for fighting fracking”.

But I thought Rick Perry just had a giant prayer rally that was supposed to fix stuff like that.

35 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:27:00pm

re: #15 goddamnedfrank

It’s just beginning, both men are running for the nomination or nothing else. When this is over there’ll be little but scorched earth left between them.

Good. Let them destroy each other and expose each other’s weaknesses and failures. That makes opposition research easier for the Dems.

36 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:27:08pm

Perry Proposes Economically Impossible State Takeover Of Social Security

Perry: I’m for having a conversation with the country about how we find some solutions to have programs that are going to be sustainable. And I think having the states doing it is one of the ways. I’m not saying it’s the only way.
…
Legal Expert: A workable plan to allow states to opt out of Social Security would require draconian provisions, such as a mandate that everyone must retire in the same state that they worked and paid taxes in. Otherwise, workers who are too young to receive Social Security benefits would move to an opt-out state to avoid paying Social Security taxes — and then promptly move to a state with Social Security benefits the moment they became eligible. Eventually, the entire system would collapse under the weight of too many Social Security beneficiaries who had not paid into the system.

37 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:27:52pm

re: #34 Charles

But I thought Rick Perry just had a giant prayer rally that was supposed to fix stuff like that.

God answered their prayers.

He said no.

38 iossarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:27:59pm

re: #34 Charles

But I thought Rick Perry just had a giant prayer rally that was supposed to fix stuff like that.

Too many infidels left in America unfortunately. They’re disrupting the prayer-wave field.

Once they’re eliminated, only then will things improve.

39 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:28:14pm

re: #21 leftynyc

Creationists on the board of education? I’m shaking my head at the stupidity of this. Please continue to post these stories - I have plenty of people who need to see them and just see him as an amiable conservative.

Just look at the recent history of the Texas State Board of Education, then realize that Rick Perry wants that for your kids in your state, too.

40 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:28:20pm

What could possibly be wrong with Perry? He just wants a return to the idyllic days of mom cooking apple pie in the kitchen, short white picket fence, freshly painted suburban bungalow, affluent white neighbours and dad forever chasing Beaver.

41 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:28:56pm

re: #23 SpaceJesus

Haven’t we already seen this shit before? Wasn’t this called George W. Bush about a decade ago?

Except that Bush, unlike Perry, has a conscience.

Perry is Sarah Palin with actual political skill.

42 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:29:11pm

re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

God answered their prayers.

He said no.

Wouldn’t you?

The Southern Poverty Law Center has identified the American Family Association as a hate group on par with the nation’s most virulent anti-gay groups as well as the Ku Klux Klan and the Aryan Nations. Indeed, spokesmen for the AFA traffic in extreme anti-gay bigotry, promote discrimination and hate against Muslims and other non-Christians, and employ rhetoric that plays to racist stereotypes.

Click here for more about the organizers and endorsers of “The Response.” Some are so extreme that they have employed incendiary anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic rhetoric in the past, called the Statue of Liberty a “demonic idol,” claimed that Oprah Winfrey is a forerunner of the Antichrist and suggested that violent revolution is a reasonable option for Americans today.[Link: www.tfn.org…]

43 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:29:45pm

re: #39 Lidane

Just look at the recent history of the Texas State Board of Education, then realize that Rick Perry wants that for your kids in your state, too.

He’s also on record saying if you don’t like it, you can leave.

44 iossarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:32:02pm

I’m not sure where this “Bush meant well” thing is going. I mean, it’s possible to oppose Perry in the strongest terms while also recognizing that Bush was basically a conduit for corporations to get exactly what they wanted for eight years (and beyond thanks to his hugely ideological judiciary picks).

Bush meant well? We’re still screwed. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

45 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:32:08pm

re: #30 Big Steve

Also keep in mind that not one of the religious right agenda items actually passed. So we can express concern about the process of the Texas SBOE but not the outcome.

When the outcome includes a creationist heading the State Board of Education (and then another one), I reserve the right to express concern.

46 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:32:32pm

“It is a ridiculous notion to say you can’t legislate morality,” Perry said.
“I say you can’t not legislate morality.”

47 iossarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:32:59pm

re: #46 jaunte

“It is a ridiculous notion to say you can’t legislate morality,” Perry said.
“I say you can’t not legislate morality.”

Enlightenment values!

48 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:33:13pm

Is Rick Perry as Christian as he purports to be - The Atlantic.

How does Gov. Perry interpret the Bible? Even more to the point, I’d like to hear him explain how he arrived at his interpretations. If you’re running for president in a democratic country, it’s not enough to proclaim that the Bible says something is right or wrong. You must have reasoned positions. Catholics have been taught to inquire into God’s will by using our reason, examining nature, and listening to Church teaching — as well as by interpreting the Bible.

A last question for the governor: does he believe that God agrees with his reading of the Bible? I’m not saying he does believe this; I’m just wondering.

49 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:33:26pm

re: #23 SpaceJesus

Haven’t we already seen this shit before? Wasn’t this called George W. Bush about a decade ago?

I wasn’t fond of Bush during the 2000 campaign — voted for Gore, in fact. But Perry is much more of a religious fanatic and proselytizer than Bush ever was.

50 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:33:41pm

re: #47 iossarian

“It’s my way or the toll-road.”

51 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:34:38pm

re: #34 Charles

But I thought Rick Perry just had a giant prayer rally that was supposed to fix stuff like that.

It was broadcast on the wrong network - God was watching ESPN.

52 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:34:53pm

I am currently praying that the Texas legislature will pass a bill allowing tax credits for passive rainwater collection systems.

God helps those that put out barrels.

53 Big Steve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:35:01pm

So this is on the record here…..Rick Perry is one of the nastiest politician’s in the country. He is smart, takes no prisoners, and he is not gaff prone. He has been running for President the last two years. He already has a ready answer for every criticism that will come his way. He is a well trained politician. He is not naive in any way. If you cross him, he never forgets. If you think he is running for Vice President, forget about it….he is in it to win. He will be very formidable against President Obama if he gets the nomination. The only thing I can say is a weakness is he hates debating and is not good at it. If you want to see the real Rick Perry look at how he avoided debating Bill White two years ago.

54 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:35:19pm

re: #44 iossarian

Bush meant well? We’re still screwed. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

I’ll agree with that. They both suck.

That said, I didn’t vote for Bush. Didn’t vote for his daddy either. Sure as hell never voted for Perry. I will still go on record saying that Bush > Perry.

55 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:35:19pm

Big Dog weighs in:

“I got tickled by watching Governor Perry announce for governor, for president,” Clinton said — perhaps stumbling a bit in the wind-up of a joke. “He’s a good looking rascal.”

The former president elaborated: “And he’s saying ‘Oh, I’m going to Washington to make sure that the federal government stays as far away from you as possible — while I ride on Air Force One and that Marine One helicopter and go to Camp David and travel around the world and have a good time.’ I mean, this is crazy.”

The man knows a ‘rascal’ when he sees one.

56 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:36:12pm

re: #33 goddamnedfrank

Yeee Haw!

Rick Perry gun montage.

57 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:37:12pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

Rick Perry gun montage.

Political gun pr0n!

58 SpaceJesus  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:38:20pm

re: #49 Charles

Has this Perry guy always been that way, or is he exploiting something in popular culture that is a bit more recent? I only ask because I could see Bush doing the exact same thing right now had he not been our last president.

59 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:38:56pm

re: #52 EmmmieG

I am currently praying that the Texas legislature will pass a bill allowing tax credits for passive rainwater collection systems.

God helps those that put out barrels.

That would be cool - if it ever rained in Texas!

60 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:39:16pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

Why does that seem to be of the same kind as Russia’ Putin?

61 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:40:51pm

The Teahadis will have another reason to hate the UN now:

United Nations Affirms the Human Right to Blaspheme

62 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:41:22pm

re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Teahadis will have another reason to hate the UN now:

United Nations Affirms the Human Right to Blaspheme

Heresy!

63 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:41:44pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

Rick Perry gun montage.

He sure has a wide variety of penises.

64 Big Steve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:42:18pm

Rick Perry and that dangerous coyote…. [Link: www.chron.com…]

65 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:42:40pm

re: #58 SpaceJesus

Has this Perry guy always been that way, or is he exploiting something in popular culture that is a bit more recent?

Both. He’s been this way for ages, but he’s using the Tea Party idiots and fundamentalist nutjobs to his advantage by pandering to them.

I only ask because I could see Bush doing the exact same thing right now had he not been our last president.

Bush had one huge advantage that Perry never will — Daddy was POTUS first. He was able to play on that and on Clinton fatigue to get elected.

He’d do much the same now — use his connections to the GOP establishment along with raising just enough questions about Obama to get elected. He wouldn’t have to pander to the teabaggers to the same extent that the current GOP candidates have to .

67 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:44:25pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

I think he’s running for VP (Under Mitt). He’ll play the Sarah Palin role perfectly and Obama will be reelected. Perry will return in 2016. That’s my prediction and I’m sticking with it.

I doubt seriously whether Perry would ever condescend to be VP.

68 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:44:52pm

re: #65 Lidane

He wouldn’t have to pander to the teabaggers to the same extent that the current GOP candidates have to .

I agreed with you up to this sentence.

Everybody has to kiss the Tea Party’s ass at this point. It’s the price of doing business with the modern TGOP.

69 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:46:17pm

More about Perry (2002) from Paul Burka:

Bush had little interest in inside politics; he left that to his political consultant Karl Rove. Perry is his own Karl Rove. When another Republican primary battle loomed last fall, this one for the U.S. Senate between land commissioner David Dewhurst, who had previously announced for lieutenant governor and had already run TV spots, and attorney general John Cornyn, Perry intervened to talk Dewhurst out of the race. It’s not easy to get someone with a nine-digit fortune and a long-standing wish to run for the Senate to settle for lieutenant governor, but Perry played it low-key, staying in touch with Dewhurst, restating the case for running for lieutenant governor, reminding him of his commitment, all of which exploited his quarry’s tendency to put off decisions—until finally, so much time had elapsed that Dewhurst drifted into doing what Perry had wanted all along.

As good as Perry is at these machinations, there is more to being governor than acting as a high-level political consultant. Perry indicated so himself when he introduced Bush at the Capitol as a man of vision, of conviction, of heartfelt words. Unfortunately for Perry, each paean to Bush became an unintended pan of himself: Where is the Perry vision? Where is the conviction? Where are the heartfelt words? His first year as governor has not been a disaster; aside from some of the vetoes, he has done no harm. Rather, it has been a missed opportunity to establish and define himself as a politician. Sometimes it seems as if he is more interested, and more engaged, in leading the Republican party than in leading Texas.[Link: www.texasmonthly.com…]

70 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:47:33pm

re: #68 makeitstop

I agreed with you up to this sentence.

Everybody has to kiss the Tea Party’s ass at this point. It’s the price of doing business with the modern TGOP.

Bush would have so much of the Old Money establishment of the GOP on his side that he’d largely ignore the Tea Party, I think. He might make some rhetorical concessions to them, but the naked pandering we’re seeing from the GOP candidates? I don’t see it.

Bush was real big on that whole “uniter, not a divider” thing, and that’s anathema to the teabaggers.

71 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:48:35pm

re: #66 jaunte

Dear Yankee. Eight things you ought to know before you start writing stories about Rick Perry. You’re welcome. by Paul Burka

Yeah, this. Definitely a good read.

72 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:48:47pm

re: #58 SpaceJesus

For example: Bush Talks About Creationism and Evolution on Nightline in 2008 — he said the Bible is “probably not” literally true, and there is “scientific proof” for evolution.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:50:13pm

re: #65 Lidane

He’d do much the same now — use his connections to the GOP establishment along with raising just enough questions about Obama to get elected. He wouldn’t have to pander to the teabaggers to the same extent that the current GOP candidates have to .

He is the bridge between the GOP establishment and the TP, he can take advantage of both. ALl he need do now is position himself as front-runner.

74 allegro  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:50:21pm

re: #64 Big Steve

Rick Perry and that dangerous coyote… [Link: www.chron.com…]

“With all due respect to his manhood, 90-pound women in tennis shoes effectively scare 30-pound coyotes away with a sharp shout,” said group spokeswoman Wendy Keef­over-Ring in a news release. “We’re sending Governor Perry a plastic whistle so he can leave his gun at home.”

Heh. Quite right. Coyotes are not aggressive animals under these circumstances. A “boo!” is plenty to chase them off. Perry is an ass.

75 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:52:51pm

re: #74 allegro

Heh. Quite right. Coyotes are not aggressive animals under these circumstances. A “boo!” is plenty to chase them off. Perry is an ass.

Austin needs to import some wolfs to keep the coyotes at bay.

76 sod  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:56:38pm

Who better to create jobs than a creationist?

77 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:56:51pm

re: #73 ralphieboy

He is the bridge between the GOP establishment and the TP, he can take advantage of both. ALl he need do now is position himself as front-runner.

You’re talking about Perry. The part of my post you quoted is talking about Bush.

Perry might well be a bridge between the TP and the GOP establishment, but it’s to the GOP’s detriment. Bush would have been more of a candidate that actually reached out to independents and moderates. Perry won’t bother if he doesn’t have to.

78 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:58:35pm

re: #76 sod

Who better to create jobs than a creationist?

Anyone.

79 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 12:59:18pm

re: #78 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Anyone.

Darth Vader.

80 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:02:52pm

re: #79 b_sharp

Darth Vader.

The Death Star was vital to the Imperial Defense industry.

81 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:03:07pm

re: #77 Lidane

You’re talking about Perry. The part of my post you quoted is talking about Bush.

Perry might well be a bridge between the TP and the GOP establishment, but it’s to the GOP’s detriment. Bush would have been more of a candidate that actually reached out to independents and moderates. Perry won’t bother if he doesn’t have to.

The TP demands such total adherence to their dogma that it gives the most advantage to the one who has the least experience. Actual governance requires compromise, which is heresy to ‘baggers. This is why Bachmann, a mere congresscritter, beat Governor Pawlenty over the weekend, and why she may be able to beat Governor Perry.

The old truism about “executive experience” has drowned in the tea. It is dragging the old GOP down with it.

82 iossarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:04:02pm

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Death Star was vital to the Imperial Defense industry.

That’s no moon … it’s a red state jobs program!

83 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:05:42pm

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Death Star was vital to the Imperial Defense industry.

Especially since it got built and blown up twice. Heh.

84 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:07:48pm

re: #82 iossarian

That’s no moon … it’s a red state jobs program!

The Death Star’s original designation was the F-22

85 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:07:59pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

we are demanding too much consistency from both sides. if Perry can simply sell his image as that of everything the TP wants to promote: low taxes, weak regulation and “family values”, I am certain they will flock to him and forgive his sins and minor deviations from the True Path.

86 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:09:52pm

re: #6 lawhawk

Why would Tech companies do that? They pay no taxes in Texas and they can import all the low wage “tech workers” they want.

87 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:10:05pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

The old truism about “executive experience” has drowned in the tea. It is dragging the old GOP down with it.

Well, yes. Because “executive experience” requires working with people who disagree with you.

The teabaggers want a True Believer.

88 Big Steve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:10:40pm

I am not so sure that if the tea party had been round in 1999 Bush wouldn’t have been courting them as hard as the current crop. Remember that when Bush didn’t do well in the early primaries, he firewalled it by running hard to the right in S. Carolina

89 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:12:03pm

re: #80 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just think of all the workers who needed to work in the Death Star commissary, or the Kuat A shipyard, or Sienar Fleet Systems.

90 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:12:49pm

Belief in God does not preclude belief in evolution.
Belief in evolution does not preclude belief in God.
Do not trust those who insist otherwise.

91 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:14:20pm

re: #88 Big Steve

I am not so sure that if the tea party had been round in 1999 Bush wouldn’t have been courting them as hard as the current crop. Remember that when Bush didn’t do well in the early primaries, he firewalled it by running hard to the right in S. Carolina

Except that the Tea Party has its roots in Luap Nor’s ideas. Here in Texas, Luap Nor was persona non grata in the GOP. They tolerated him because he kept winning, but they considered him a crank and a kook. Bush wouldn’t have given his ideas any credence.

I think Bush would have just gone with the religious conservative bonafides, since Bush is an evangelical, born-again type. The teabagger stuff? Not so much. He’s from money. There’s no reason to pander to the teabaggers.

92 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:16:10pm

re: #89 lawhawk

Just think of all the workers who needed to work in the Death Star commissary, or the Kuat A shipyard, or Sienar Fleet Systems.

Meanwhile, those hippies over at Incom caved into the Unions.

93 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:17:09pm

re: #88 Big Steve

I am not so sure that if the tea party had been round in 1999 Bush wouldn’t have been courting them as hard as the current crop. Remember that when Bush didn’t do well in the early primaries, he firewalled it by running hard to the right in S. Carolina



What Bush did to McCain in the 2000 S. C. primary

94 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:17:14pm

re: #89 lawhawk


upding for “clerks” reference

95 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:18:04pm

re: #90 laZardo

“The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”
- Thomas Aquinas

96 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:18:12pm

re: #90 laZardo

Yes, I did apply wingnut tags to it, because I do believe that acceptance of evolution precludes religious belief in destroying the creation myths that form religion’s foundation.

97 Summer Seale  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:20:08pm

re: #72 Charles

For example: Bush Talks About Creationism and Evolution on Nightline in 2008 — he said the Bible is “probably not” literally true, and there is “scientific proof” for evolution.

In the end, Bush was not the fanatic that people accused him of being. I didn’t agree with many things about Bush, but I would rather have him heading the GOP today than the completely insane fanatics that are currently in the top of the ranks.

In fact, they regard Bush as a traitor to their cause because he never acted out on all of the insane crap that they wanted him to legislate for them.

I’d still vote for Obama, but at least we wouldn’t have raving lunatics on the other side of the aisle to contend with.

98 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:21:01pm

perry’s creationism extends to his creation of “facts” out of nothing

99 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:21:42pm

re: #72 Charles

For example: Bush Talks About Creationism and Evolution on Nightline in 2008 — he said the Bible is “probably not” literally true, and there is “scientific proof” for evolution.

How courageous of him to wait till his term is up.

100 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:22:34pm

re: #96 laZardo

Yes, I did apply wingnut tags to it, because I do believe that acceptance of evolution precludes religious belief in destroying the creation myths that form religion’s foundation.

I don’t agree. There are many scientists who are religious, but they simply don’t see the creation myths as literal truth.

Acceptance of evolution may preclude fundamentalist religious belief. But not all religious belief.

101 iossarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:22:57pm

OT: Tough justice for UK rioters and, er, receivers of shorts.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk…]

In Manchester, a mother of two, Ursula Nevin, was jailed for five months for receiving a pair of shorts given to her after they had been looted from a city centre store. In Brixton, south London, a 23-year-old student was jailed for six months for stealing £3.50 worth of water bottles from a supermarket.

Toughness! Justice! Smash the terror cells of shorts-receivers!

(Don’t mention the bankers.)

102 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:24:51pm

re: #96 laZardo

Yes, I did apply wingnut tags to it, because I do believe that acceptance of evolution precludes religious belief in destroying the creation myths that form religion’s foundation.

A literal interpretation of the Bible makes it impossible to accept Evolution. But even the Pope sees no inherent contradiction between Creation and Evolution.

103 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:27:38pm

re: #102 ralphieboy

Semantic gymnastics. They simply twist words that they pretty much made up in an age of bloodshed (and interpretations thereof) to suit today’s ostensibly less-bloody times. They’ve been doing it for their flock for literally millennia.

104 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:31:06pm

And by the way, I say that as an atheist myself. I just know for a fact that some excellent scientists, such as biologist Ken Miller, are able to reconcile their science with their religious beliefs. You may think they’re wrong, but it works for them.

105 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:32:47pm

I’m a devout agnostic. I accept their might indeed be a higher power of some sort, and that it doesn’t come down to have talks with humans about what its goals might be.

106 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:36:43pm

I’ve got a guy here who thinks Ron Paul isn’t crazy. I need links pointing to a variety of issues to blanket the spectrum.

107 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:37:34pm

re: #104 Charles

And by the way, I say that as an atheist myself. I just know for a fact that some excellent scientists, such as biologist Ken Miller, are able to reconcile their science with their religious beliefs. You may think they’re wrong, but it works for them.

IMHO, that’s the best, if not only, way for an atheist to judge someone’s religion, or for a believer of one sort to judge the beliefs of another. Which is why I get impatient when a believer of one stripe calls the beliefs of another “kooky”.

108 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:37:53pm

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

imp62’s links to debunking the Gold Standard myths

It’s actually a link to one article out of three parts. The rest are at the end of that article.

109 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:38:49pm

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Here’s one from Redstate on isolationism:

…the statement that the President of the United States is Constitutionally proscribed from committing US military forces to a Libyan intervention, absent a declaration of war, is simply wrong in all its particulars.[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]
110 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:39:57pm

Having come from the only country in the world where divorce is illegal and the local church de facto bans contraception in overcrowded cities, I’ve pretty much become a militant atheist. From fighting at what iceweasel called “the front lines,” as it were.

I’ll try to respect your beliefs when you meet me on the street, but when it comes to debates such as this regarding evolution etc. I will not show mercy.

111 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:44:58pm

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Here’s another:

“…the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation’s Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.”
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com…]
112 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:46:08pm

wow…stumbled into this and I’m floored
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com…]

Between 1929 and 1974, North Carolina sterilized more than 7,600 individuals in the name of “improving” the state’s human stock. By the time the program was halted, the majority of those neutered were young, black, poor women - like Riddick.

113 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:46:13pm

re: #104 Charles
Thankyou for pointing out that some scientists are people of faith.
As a man of faith myself, the more I learn about science like evolution and cosmology, the more interested I am in my own faith. It seems to me science take us to his footprints as it were. I’m perfectly happy to have a more current cosmology & evolutionary biology available to me than ancient texts.

114 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:46:23pm

re: #107 wrenchwench

IMHO, that’s the best, if not only, way for an atheist to judge someone’s religion, or for a believer of one sort to judge the beliefs of another. Which is why I get impatient when a believer of one stripe calls the beliefs of another “kooky”.

QFT. It beats the hell out of everyone standing around pointing fingers & sniping at each other.

115 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:49:29pm

re: #112 albusteve

wow…stumbled into this and I’m floored
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com…]

Between 1929 and 1974, North Carolina sterilized more than 7,600 individuals in the name of “improving” the state’s human stock. By the time the program was halted, the majority of those neutered were young, black, poor women - like Riddick.

1974. But everybody is supposed to be “post-racial” by now.

116 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:49:35pm

re: #114 CuriousLurker

QFT. It beats the hell out of everyone standing around pointing fingers & sniping at each other.

FIFTY CALIBER BABY

117 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:55:03pm

re: #103 laZardo

Semantic gymnastics. They simply twist words that they pretty much made up in an age of bloodshed (and interpretations thereof) to suit today’s ostensibly less-bloody times. They’ve been doing it for their flock for literally millennia.

A belief in evolution does not preclude a belief in Intelligent Design, or in Deism.

Many, including my wife, believe her God used evolution as the tool to create life.

The acceptance of evolution does preclude the literal belief in the creation myths as put forward by religious texts, but as soon as those myths are taken as allegory, the conflict is resolved.

118 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:58:42pm

re: #96 laZardo

Yes, I did apply wingnut tags to it, because I do believe that acceptance of evolution precludes religious belief in destroying the creation myths that form religion’s foundation.

Only if you’re absolutely convinced that the Biblical account of creation ‘forms religion’s foundation’ and that it must be interpreted as a literal sequence of events.

This is a belief that characterizes certain sorts of religious fundamentalists, and people who can’t deal with the idea that there are religious people who aren’t those certain sorts.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 1:59:45pm

re: #102 ralphieboy

A literal interpretation of the Bible makes it impossible to accept Evolution. But even the Pope sees no inherent contradiction between Creation and Evolution.

Thats because the Church does not interpret Genesis literally.

120 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:00:33pm

re: #117 b_sharp

The acceptance of evolution does preclude the literal belief in the creation myths as put forward by religious texts, but as soon as those myths are taken as allegory, the conflict is resolved.

But through debunking it’s not really belief anymore, especially now that it’s proven false.

121 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:00:46pm

re: #107 wrenchwench

IMHO, that’s the best, if not only, way for an atheist to judge someone’s religion, or for a believer of one sort to judge the beliefs of another. Which is why I get impatient when a believer of one stripe calls the beliefs of another “kooky”.

WW, I do find the belief in a supreme being who is above and beyond our shared physical reality more than a little bit questionable, but I’ve learned that people invest so much in their personal belief system that questioning their belief in a god is tantamount to questioning their honesty.

I would rather encourage them to question their own beliefs in light of today’s knowledge base.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:01:18pm

re: #103 laZardo

Semantic gymnastics. They simply twist words that they pretty much made up in an age of bloodshed (and interpretations thereof) to suit today’s ostensibly less-bloody times. They’ve been doing it for their flock for literally millennia.

Just because it isn’t something you want to hear doesn’t make it ‘semantic gymnastics’. And I don’t see why you’re so eager to give validity to the least scientifically compatible form of religious belief.

123 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:02:40pm

And he’s lost interest in talking about Ron “The most honest man in DC” Paul because he saw about the Bay of Pigs files that were being released.

/facepalm

124 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:05:54pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

Just because it isn’t something you want to hear doesn’t make it ‘semantic gymnastics’. And I don’t see why you’re so eager to give validity to the least scientifically compatible form of religious belief.

Because religious scripture was written primarily for the times they were written. Perhaps it was a lot more “valid” in that it kept those communities together against that great unknown.

In today’s shrinking world it is much more productive to go exploring that great unknown, but today’s religious (the Taliban and Taliban-equivalent) are convinced that it is trying to destroy them. People like Perry are willing to go a step further and try to convince everyone else of that.

125 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:06:15pm

re: #123 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And he’s lost interest in talking about Ron “The most honest man in DC” Paul because he saw about the Bay of Pigs files that were being released.

/facepalm

OPERATION NORTHWOOD!!!111ONEONE

126 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:07:08pm

re: #111 jaunte

Here’s another:

The attack on Christmas is an attack against exclusionism. It looks like Christian values are under attack simply because Christianity is the dominant religion in North America so any questioning of exclusionism is most likely to include Christian ideals.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:09:12pm

re: #124 laZardo

Because religious scripture was written primarily for the times they were written. Perhaps it was a lot more “valid” in that it kept those communities together against that great unknown.

In today’s shrinking world it is much more productive to go exploring that great unknown, but today’s religious (the Taliban and Taliban-equivalent) are convinced that it is trying to destroy them. People like Perry are willing to go a step further and try to convince everyone else of that.

We’re talking at cross purposes.

128 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:13:25pm

re: #112 albusteve

wow…stumbled into this and I’m floored
[Link: seattletimes.nwsource.com…]

Between 1929 and 1974, North Carolina sterilized more than 7,600 individuals in the name of “improving” the state’s human stock. By the time the program was halted, the majority of those neutered were young, black, poor women - like Riddick.

Doesn’t that just turn you inside out?

Contrary to the DI, ICR and other fundamentalist ‘think’ tanks, eugenics of this type was influenced not by evolution but by the common observations of livestock breeders long before Darwin codified the mechanics.

129 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:14:50pm

re: #120 laZardo

But through debunking it’s not really belief anymore, especially now that it’s proven false.

What has been proven false?

130 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:15:48pm

re: #129 b_sharp

What has been proven false?

The creation myths, proven false by evolution.

131 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:16:53pm

re: #130 laZardo

The creation myths, proven false by evolution.

Unless you just take them as metaphor or allegory, which a lot of religious people do.

132 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:18:03pm

re: #131 Obdicut

*Raises hand*

133 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:18:16pm

re: #130 laZardo

The creation myths, proven false by evolution.

Evolution does not deal with the origin of the planet.

134 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:18:20pm

re: #130 laZardo

The creation myths, proven false by evolution.

LIES!

The Elder Things plunged down from the starry night and established their cities in Antarctica, used the leavings of Ubbo-Sathla to create the first Shoggoths, and from their residue sprung earthly life.

You cannot dispute those established FACTS!

135 ProBosniaLiberal  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:18:25pm

Meanwhile in Libya:

ZeinakhodrAljaz Zeina Khodr

#Libya, #NATO bombarding targets between #zawiyah and #Tripoli, #Gaddafi, #TNC

Things continuing to go well with the Western Front.

136 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:18:37pm

re: #124 laZardo

Because religious scripture was written primarily for the times they were written. Perhaps it was a lot more “valid” in that it kept those communities together against that great unknown.

In today’s shrinking world it is much more productive to go exploring that great unknown, but today’s religious (the Taliban and Taliban-equivalent) are convinced that it is trying to destroy them. People like Perry are willing to go a step further and try to convince everyone else of that.

Religious people populate a very wide range of belief systems and resulting actions. Don’t place all religious people in the same boat.

My dislike of religion stems from its great power to manipulate large groups of people, and although I would like religion based on a being somehow above and beyond physical reality to disappear, I don’t feel the same about the people who believe.

137 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:18:40pm

re: #133 wrenchwench

Evolution does not deal with the origin of the planet.

Magnets.

138 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:19:31pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

We’re talking at cross purposes.

What does religion have to do with angry porpoises?

139 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:19:43pm

re: #131 Obdicut

Unless you just take them as metaphor or allegory, which a lot of religious people do.

Then they’re not (that) religious for believing them as such. Simple.

Again, scripture was written primarily for the respective age when it was written. It is how people interpreted it as close to that original age as possible that should be a gauge of how faithful they are to scripture. Hence, fundamentalism.

140 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:19:57pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Magnets.



Miracles every 1,000-10,000 years!

141 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:20:06pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Magnets.

Special magnets.

142 William of Orange  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:20:20pm

Say hello to the Rick-Perry-for-president bus.

Joining the Tour de Grift Express, the Buss de Bachmann, and all the other Republican buses burning up fuel on America’s highways this summer (don’t worry, it’s probably all biodiesel) is this sleek new model just unveiled by the Rick Perry campaign in Iowa. Grand!

The folks over at the Daily Kos totally predicted the Perry bus’s existence, though the end result does differ significantly from the Texascentric model they designed. Instead of featuring “the Constitution of the Confederate States of America or the 1861 Texas Declaration of Secession” on its sides, Perry’s campaign battleship goes for a no-frills look dominated by black (which suggests anarchy) and accented on its back end with red and blue. No parchment documents, no American flags, no Confederate flags, no Lone Star flags, no eagles—just bold, simple color. Oh, and two texty things: “Get America Working Again,” and “Perry/President.”

gotta love the folks at Jalopnik for such a colorful and vivid description of this gas guzzler.

143 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:20:38pm

re: #138 b_sharp

What does religion have to do with angry porpoises?

Dolphins hold the secret to life, the universe and everything.

/been a while since i read the series

144 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:21:18pm

re: #139 laZardo

Then they’re not (that) religious for believing them as such. Simple.

Why the hell not?

145 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:22:57pm

re: #139 laZardo

Then they’re not (that) religious for believing them as such. Simple.

Again, scripture was written primarily for the respective age when it was written. It is how people interpreted it as close to that original age as possible that should be a gauge of how faithful they are to scripture. Hence, fundamentalism.

So if religious people don’t believe in the part that you find unbelievable, they aren’t religious to you.

I think you’ve defined yourself into a corner.

146 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:25:08pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

It’s also a very Western view or religion. There are entire religions that don’t have sacred texts.

147 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:25:39pm

re: #130 laZardo

The creation myths, proven false by evolution.

‘Proven’ is a pretty loaded word and not something science really tries to deal with. There is mounting evidence that all creation stories are based in mythology and the evidence is strong enough everyone should accept it as valid, however, (there is always a however) many people already accept the creation stories as being non-literal. They believe God either set the Big Bang up knowing the end result, or manipulated DNA at essential times in order to end up with the current ecosystem.

Neither of those two rely on the creation myths so they aren’t disproved by any of the disciplines associated with evolution.

148 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:26:02pm

re: #144 Obdicut

Why the hell not?

Because they know it’s a myth and not something that actually happened? Why would people put their belief in something that has been proven a myth?

149 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:26:49pm

re: #147 b_sharp

They believe God either set the Big Bang up knowing the end result, or manipulated DNA at essential times in order to end up with the current ecosystem.

…but how do we know that actually happened either? Do they just assume it did?

150 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:27:04pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Magnets.

turtles!

151 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:27:26pm

re: #142 William of Orange

Say hello to the Rick-Perry-for-president bus.

gotta love the folks at Jalopnik for such a colorful and vivid description of this gas guzzler.

I figured it would be a plain tour bus, except jacked up with monster truck suspension & tires, and maybe a gun rack on the back.

152 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:28:00pm

re: #148 laZardo

Because they know it’s a myth and not something that actually happened? Why would people put their belief in something that has been proven a myth?

Well, it’s kind of odd that you don’t know this, but many religious people see the history of their religion as having been a time period where people believed the texts were literal, but then came to realize that they were metaphorical, inspired by ineffable God but not literally the words of such.

Therefore, the texts need interpretation, which is why there’s so many different sects of, for example, Catholicism.

153 zora  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:28:46pm

re: #148 laZardo

my religious faith is not contigent on believing that god literally made a man from dirt and breathed life into them at the beginning of existence. you don’t know what you are talking about.

154 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:28:59pm

A Christian Plot for Domination?

With Tim Pawlenty out of the presidential race, it is now fairly clear that the GOP candidate will either be Mitt Romney or someone who makes George W. Bush look like Tom Paine. Of the three most plausible candidates for the Republican nomination, two are deeply associated with a theocratic strain of Christian fundamentalism known as Dominionism. If you want to understand Michele Bachmann and Rick Perry, understanding Dominionism isn’t optional.

Put simply, Dominionism means that Christians have a God-given right to rule all earthly institutions. Originating among some of America’s most radical theocrats, it’s long had an influence on religious-right education and political organizing. But because it seems so outré, getting ordinary people to take it seriously can be difficult. Most writers, myself included, who explore it have been called paranoid. In a contemptuous 2006 First Things review of several books, including Kevin Phillips’ American Theocracy, and my own Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, conservative columnist Ross Douthat wrote, “the fear of theocracy has become a defining panic of the Bush era.”

155 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:29:06pm

re: #148 laZardo

Because they know it’s a myth and not something that actually happened? Why would people put their belief in something that has been proven a myth?

El Sleezo Patron: Hello, sailor, buy me a drink?
Kermit: Well, you see, I’m not a sailor, I’m a frog.
El Sleezo Patron: Oh, cut the small talk and buy me a drink.
Kermit: I don’t even know you.
El Sleezo Tough: Hey. Did you make a move with my girl?
Kermit: No, sir.
El Sleezo Patron: He did too. He touched me.
El Sleezo Tough: Ugh. Wash up, you’ll get warts.
Kermit: That’s a myth.
El Sleezo Tough: Yeah, but she’s my “myth”!
Kermit: No, no, myth, myth!
Myth: Yeth?

156 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:30:00pm

re: #150 engineer dog

turtles!

But only part of the way down.

/not a fundamentalist

157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:30:23pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Gosh. You’re defending Christians better than most Christians could, certainly better than I can.

Thanks.

158 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:31:47pm

re: #139 laZardo

Then they’re not (that) religious for believing them as such. Simple.

Again, scripture was written primarily for the respective age when it was written. It is how people interpreted it as close to that original age as possible that should be a gauge of how faithful they are to scripture. Hence, fundamentalism.

You are playing the ‘no true religious’ card based on your narrow experience. There are many literalists around, I’ve argued with hundreds of them at several forums/newsnet sites including talk.origins, and FreeRepublic, and if that’s all you run across I can understand your point of view. There are/were religious scientists, some of them biologists well versed in evolution, at those sites who argued just as hard as I did against the literalists.

159 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:31:52pm

re: #157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I’m an atheist, but not an anti-theist.

I only have a problem when people think they know definitely what God wants them to do, and brings it into the political sphere.

160 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:33:06pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Well, it’s kind of odd that you don’t know this, but many religious people see the history of their religion as having been a time period where people believed the texts were literal, but then came to realize that they were metaphorical, inspired by ineffable God but not literally the words of such.

Therefore, the texts need interpretation, which is why there’s so many different sects of, for example, Catholicism.

Some of which are more fundamental (in that they have not come to that realization) than others.

It still does not make them as religious as those fundamentalists.

161 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:33:57pm

Tech question
Has anyone here had to resort to a liquid cooling gadget for their PC? I’m getting overheat warnings on my I7, with fans maxed out.

162 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:34:49pm

re: #160 laZardo

Some of which are more fundamental (in that they have not come to that realization) than others.

It still does not make them as religious as those fundamentalists.

Do you believe that “more fundamentalist” is the same thing as “more religious”?

163 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:35:20pm

re: #162 wrenchwench

Do you believe that “more fundamentalist” is the same thing as “more religious”?

Yes.

164 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:35:40pm

re: #163 laZardo

Yes.

It’s a myth!

Gotcha!

165 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:36:05pm

re: #156 wrenchwench

But only part of the way down.

/not a fundamentalist

we are being punished for this plague of torto-revisionism!!!

166 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:37:02pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Tech question
Has anyone here had to resort to a liquid cooling gadget for their PC? I’m getting overheat warnings on my I7, with fans maxed out.

What kind of airflow do you have in the case? The only heat problems I’ve ever had were due to undiscovered dust bunnies clogging up the fan on my video card.

167 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:37:37pm

re: #160 laZardo


It still does not make them as religious as those fundamentalists.

You appear to be using a circular definition of ‘religious’.

And your obsession with text and myth really is very Western. Do you know about the religion of the Australian Aborigine?

168 blueraven  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:37:45pm

Dow closes up 213 points, completely erasing last weeks losses.

169 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:37:57pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Do you have a big, good heat sink?

170 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:38:20pm

re: #149 laZardo

…but how do we know that actually happened either? Do they just assume it did?

We don’t know it happened, nor do we know it didn’t happen, and it is a form of god of the gaps but it is a logical starting point for their faith. There is no need for a god to exist to explain the BB, the universe or our existence, but some people choose to believe in a greater power than themselves. My position now, and it has changed over time, is as long as religion is not used as justification for stupid and unethical actions, then religion can be left as a boon to many people in helping them cope with life.

171 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:39:03pm

re: #158 b_sharp

It’s not just the internet. As I mentioned, I practically lived among these kinds of people. Televangelists advertising on all forms of media, mass as a kid hearing priests condemn contraceptive users to hell, etc. Politicians ran on their endorsements and their “flock” block (lol rhyme) came out to ensure their seats.

That’s “religion” I grew up with, and seeing as how there are quite a few disturbing similarities between this behavior and the behavior of the ultra-religious in other countries (from ultra-Christian governors to the Ayatollahs) I really do not see a reason to accept otherwise.

172 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:39:26pm

re: #154 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

A Christian Plot for Domination?

Dominionism is some scary shit.

173 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:39:37pm

re: #167 Obdicut

You appear to be using a circular definition of ‘religious’.

And your obsession with text and myth really is very Western. Do you know about the religion of the Australian Aborigine?

The one with Dreamland?

174 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:40:58pm

re: #173 laZardo

The one with Dreamland?

Yes. And no texts whatsoever, and no conflict that they’ve ever felt, at all, with their myths of the creation of the world and science. They believe in duality in a very intense way.

175 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:41:08pm

re: #172 b_sharp

Dominionism is some scary shit.

Yes, it is. That’s the biggest component of my fear of a President Perry.

If he lands the White House, all those Seven Mountains dudes are gonna come looking for their due.

176 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:41:52pm

re: #160 laZardo

Some of which are more fundamental (in that they have not come to that realization) than others.

It still does not make them as religious as those fundamentalists.

They’re less authoritarian, they’re less rigid, but it’s a stretch to say they are less religious. You have a very narrow definition.

177 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:43:53pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Tech question
Has anyone here had to resort to a liquid cooling gadget for their PC? I’m getting overheat warnings on my I7, with fans maxed out.

I have a Phenom II X6 running at 10% overclock with no overheating problems. I do have 6 fans in my case, including one for my RAM.

Make sure you MoBo isn’t automatically overclocking the CPU on you.

178 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:44:01pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Tech question
Has anyone here had to resort to a liquid cooling gadget for their PC? I’m getting overheat warnings on my I7, with fans maxed out.

Do you have a high quality fan & heatsink attached to your CPU? Have you tried using a thermal adhesive like Arctic Silver between the CPU and heatsink?

179 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:44:11pm

re: #176 b_sharp

They’re less authoritarian, they’re less rigid, but it’s a stretch to say they are less religious. You have a very narrow definition.

Quakers have a religion that’s almost without text, experienced communally, but some Quaker communities are about as religious and you can get. They attempt to live their entire lives under the guidance of the inner divine inspiration they believe in.

180 dell*nix  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:44:17pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Not yet. I have to clean my heat sink and fans regularly due to dust and cigarette smoke problems.

How long has your heat sink been on the cpu? Could be the contact is poor due to old heat sink compound or a poor physical connection. Also air flow problems thru the case.

181 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:44:38pm

re: #175 makeitstop

Yes, it is. That’s the biggest component of my fear of a President Perry.

If he lands the White House, all those Seven Mountains dudes are gonna come looking for their due.

however, as always, if he gets into the white house all the religious and social stuff he talks about will be out the window and he’ll obediently be doing the bidding of the people who own him

182 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:44:48pm

re: #166 negativ

What kind of airflow do you have in the case? The only heat problems I’ve ever had were due to undiscovered dust bunnies clogging up the fan on my video card.

You have failed to train your bunnies well.

183 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:45:35pm

re: #168 blueraven

Dow closes up 213 points, completely erasing last weeks losses.

Good news but we’re still down about 1,000 points since the GOP cost us our AAA credit rating. I’m not sure if we’re going to get those points back so easily.

184 dell*nix  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:46:02pm

re: #2 albusteve

Forward to the past!!!

Bit late to the thread.

185 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:46:32pm

I think his Confederate apologia/secession crap is just as bothersome. Really though if the GOP nominates Perry for anything nationally, they need to stop claiming to be the party of Lincoln.

186 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:47:41pm

re: #179 Obdicut

Then at least we should be fortunate that they tend to keep to themselves.

187 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:48:11pm

re: #171 laZardo

It’s not just the internet. As I mentioned, I practically lived among these kinds of people. Televangelists advertising on all forms of media, mass as a kid hearing priests condemn contraceptive users to hell, etc. Politicians ran on their endorsements and their “flock” block (lol rhyme) came out to ensure their seats.

That’s “religion” I grew up with, and seeing as how there are quite a few disturbing similarities between this behavior and the behavior of the ultra-religious in other countries (from ultra-Christian governors to the Ayatollahs) I really do not see a reason to accept otherwise.

I do understand where your experience has informed your opinion, but what Obdi and I are saying is; there is a larger base of religious than what you have experienced. Fundamentalists need to have their asses kicked, and I really enjoy doing that, but I know quite a few religious people who are not fundies who do not need their asses kicked.

188 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:49:03pm

re: #186 laZardo

Then at least we should be fortunate that they tend to keep to themselves.

Please don’t use ‘we’, when you know damn well I don’t agree.

Do you understand that your view of religion seems meaninglessly skewed towards the textual?

189 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:49:07pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

I think his Confederate apologia/secession crap is just as bothersome. Really though if the GOP nominates Perry for anything nationally, they need to stop claiming to be the party of Lincoln.

They haven’t been able to claim the mantle of Lincoln in decades. They’re not even the Party of Reagan anymore, since Reagan couldn’t get elected dog catcher in today’s GOP.

Whatever they are now, it’s a party that has gone off the rails.

190 Decatur Deb  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:50:08pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

I think his Confederate apologia/secession crap is just as bothersome. Really though if the GOP nominates Perry for anything nationally, they need to stop claiming to be the party of Lincoln.

Then they’ll be the Party of Lincoln and Jefferson Davis. Big tent.

191 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:50:24pm

re: #178 CuriousLurker

Do you have a high quality fan & heatsink attached to your CPU? Have you tried using a thermal adhesive like Arctic Silver between the CPU and heatsink?

Going above and beyond stock fan and HS should only be necessary if the system is overclocked. The Intel HS and fan is quite good at removing heat.

192 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:50:40pm

re: #181 engineer dog

however, as always, if he gets into the white house all the religious and social stuff he talks about will be out the window and he’ll obediently be doing the bidding of the people who own him

Likely true. But even the fact that these theocrats would be welcomed at the Perry White House - and Perry would probably be happy to throw them a few bones - could be very harmful to the country.

I do not trust them, simply because to them I’m neither a good Christian nor a good American.

193 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:51:24pm

re: #187 b_sharp

I do understand where your experience has informed your opinion, but what Obdi and I are saying is; there is a larger base of religious than what you have experienced. Fundamentalists need to have their asses kicked, and I really enjoy doing that, but I know quite a few religious people who are not fundies who do not need their asses kicked.

Since we can only kick so much ass, needing the other foot to stand on and everything, these distinctions are important.

194 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:51:37pm

re: #188 Obdicut

Please don’t use ‘we’, when you know damn well I don’t agree.

Do you understand that your view of religion seems meaninglessly skewed towards the textual?

…and? The majority of the world’s religions - and perhaps all of the most influential - are formed around “the textual.”

195 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:51:46pm

re: #188 Obdicut

Please don’t use ‘we’, when you know damn well I don’t agree.

Do you understand that your view of religion seems meaninglessly skewed towards the textual?

When it should be skewed to the contextual.

196 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:51:50pm

I was reading this just before logging on to LGF this evening.

Is Rick Perry as Christian as he thinks he is?

197 dell*nix  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:51:52pm

re: #34 Charles

Texas on the Rocks by Daniel da Cruz

198 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:53:12pm

re: #194 laZardo

…and? The majority of the world’s religions - and perhaps all of the most influential - are formed around “the textual.”

No. They’re formed around texts, but your assertion that those who take the texts more metaphorically are therefore less religious is an arbitrary designation.

199 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:53:24pm

re: #189 Lidane

They haven’t been able to claim the mantle of Lincoln in decades. They’re not even the Party of Reagan anymore, since Reagan couldn’t get elected dog catcher in today’s GOP.

Whatever they are now, it’s a party that has gone off the rails.

No doubt about it. Agree about Reagan too.

200 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:53:50pm

re: #187 b_sharp

I do understand where your experience has informed your opinion, but what Obdi and I are saying is; there is a larger base of religious than what you have experienced. Fundamentalists need to have their asses kicked, and I really enjoy doing that, but I know quite a few religious people who are not fundies who do not need their asses kicked.

I try to limit my criticism to belief systems rather than believers. And I never intended the description of “less religious” in any sort of negative light.

Seeing the increasing influence of the fundies (among other such abuse) however, I am more inclined to drop the distinction between the things people believe and the people that believe them.

201 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:54:00pm

re: #190 Decatur Deb

Then they’ll be the Party of Lincoln and Jefferson Davis. Big tent.

Three rings!

202 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:57:01pm

WOW. Awkward moment. The game I’m working on just asked people on our FB what they had to look forward to for the rest of the summer. One woman’s answer was leaving her husband and getting a divorce.

If he didn’t know about it, he does now, especially if he’s on FB too. Heh.

203 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:57:34pm

re: #130 laZardo

The creation myths, proven false by evolution.


It is a problem with a lack of basic education: what science is and isn’t. And what religion is and isn’t.

Religion is about why the world was created. Science is about how.

Creationism is about not knowing the difference.

204 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:58:32pm

i tend to think that his smarmy pious act will be repulsive to most americans

205 jvic  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:59:07pm

re: #192 makeitstop

I do not trust them, simply because to them I’m neither a good Christian nor a good American.

I’m not sure they make the distinction. It may well be a package deal as far as they’re concerned.

206 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 2:59:09pm

re: #160 laZardo

Some of which are more fundamental (in that they have not come to that realization) than others.

It still does not make them as religious as those fundamentalists.

All of them share the common belief that they are right and all the others are wrong in some fundamental sense.

Saying that some are more or less “religious” than others is really an subjective observation from outside based on the degree to which their culture conflicts with one’s own.

207 zora  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:00:26pm

Extra Bonus Quote of the Day
“It this shirt has a few wrinkles in it, it’s not my wife’s fault.”

— Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R), quoted by ABC News Radio.

[Link: politicalwire.com…]

208 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:00:39pm

re: #200 laZardo

I try to limit my criticism to belief systems rather than believers. And I never intended the description of “less religious” in any sort of negative light.

Seeing the increasing influence of the fundies (among other such abuse) however, I am more inclined to drop the distinction between the things people believe and the people that believe them.

It’s very important that you know what their beliefs are before taking action.

209 dell*nix  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:02:35pm

re: #197 dell*nix

Forgot the paste part for Texas on the Rocks.

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

210 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:03:34pm

my prediction is that perry will not take off the way the gop wants him to - he’ll just consolidate the wingnut vote - and then they’ll pressure christie to get in, and when that doesn’t work, then they’ll really begin to panic and swiftboating will set in

my theory has always been that american presidential elections are not won, they’re lost. and the gop is losing

211 garhighway  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:03:41pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

I think he’s running for VP (Under Mitt). He’ll play the Sarah Palin role perfectly and Obama will be reelected. Perry will return in 2016. That’s my prediction and I’m sticking with it.

I respectfully disagree. He’s in it to win it. He has the coin and he has a decent right-wing narrative to work with. He seems less crazy than Bachmann but has more personality than Romney. (Of course, my coffee table has more personality than Romney.)

I think Romney wins, but he has to be worried about the kind of money Perry can raise.

212 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:04:03pm

re: #205 jvic

I’m not sure they make the distinction. It may well be a package deal as far as they’re concerned.

That’s even worse!

213 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:04:12pm

BBL. Time to go get the wife.

214 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:04:52pm

re: #213 b_sharp

BBL. Time to go get the wife.

could you get one for me while you’re at it?

215 garhighway  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:05:09pm

re: #210 engineer dog

my prediction is that perry will not take off the way the gop wants him to - he’ll just consolidate the wingnut vote - and then they’ll pressure christie to get in, and when that doesn’t work, then they’ll really begin to panic and swiftboating will set in

my theory has always been that american presidential elections are not won, they’re lost. and the gop is losing

The swiftboating happens regardless. The GOP is incapable of taking the high road. They have institutionalized gutter politics.

216 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:07:29pm

I’ve said it a couple times already here but I think despite the fact that Romney is considered more electable than Perry, Perry will use the fact he’s won three gubertorial elections to portray himself as a proven winner and more “electable” than Romney. Don’t forget that Perry’s more charismatic than Mitt too. Mitt’s sole argument seems to be “I’m the most electable” more than anything.

217 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:09:48pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I’ve said it a couple times already here but I think despite the fact that Romney is considered more electable than Perry, Perry will use the fact he’s won three gubertorial elections to portray himself as a proven winner and more “electable” than Romney. Don’t forget that Perry’s more charismatic than Mitt too. Mitt’s sole argument seems to be “I’m the most electable” more than anything.

Would it help if we started spelling it “Goobernatorial”? I’d be willing….

218 dell*nix  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:10:08pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I would like to see someone run who’s motto is “Not Batsh*t Insane”.

219 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:11:36pm

re: #218 dell*nix

I would too but none of these guys are looking for my vote anyhow. Still would be nice to have some voices of reason though. Romney’s considered that but he constantly panders to the batshit crazies.

220 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:12:46pm

Interesting interview:

Barry Lynn, Advocate For Church and State Separation, Discusses Rick Perry, Obama and Atheism

Barry Lynn, executive director for Americans United for Separation of Church and State, explains how both political parties use religious politicking, how black liberation theology will haunt Obama into 2012 and why God doesn’t endorse candidates.

Rick Perry officially entered the presidential race this weekend. And, not surprisingly, the Texas governor used the occasion to stress his religious beliefs.

“I [know] that not everyone values life like we do in America, or the rights that are endowed to every human being by a loving God,” he said, echoing the Evangelical stance he took at the prayer event he organized last week, ‘The Response.’

Reverend Barry Lynn, executive Americans United for Separation of Church and State, was one of the most vocal opponents of that rally. He recently chatted with me about why God didn’t pick Rick Perry to run, how black liberation theology will again be used as an insult in 2012, and why he’s not holding his breath for an atheist president. […]

Read the whole thing…

221 garhighway  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:14:11pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I’ve said it a couple times already here but I think despite the fact that Romney is considered more electable than Perry, Perry will use the fact he’s won three gubertorial elections to portray himself as a proven winner and more “electable” than Romney. Don’t forget that Perry’s more charismatic than Mitt too. Mitt’s sole argument seems to be “I’m the most electable” more than anything.

“Electable”, in the GOP primary process, is code for “I’m not crazy”. It is apparently impolite to come right out and say that any of the other candidates are nuts, so they need a code phrase to express the sentiment.

It’s like “law and order” only not so racist.

222 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:16:04pm

Heated discussion aside…

I got hired as a Free Samples Guy at a recently-renovated Safeway. Training on the 20th, working starts on the 26th.

223 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:17:47pm

re: #221 garhighway

“Electable”, in the GOP primary process, is code for “I’m not crazy”. It is apparently impolite to come right out and say that any of the other candidates are nuts, so they need a code phrase to express the sentiment.

Pretty much. Romney calling himself electable is his way of saying that he’s not as batshit insane as the others and won’t have the same baggage of crazy to defend, unlike Perry or Bachmann or anyone else.

224 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:18:27pm

re: #204 engineer dog

i tend to think that his smarmy pious act will be repulsive to most americans

I want to hope so…the great unknown question….how far can these people go?…there is much for a lot of Christians and others to dislike and distrust

225 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:18:56pm

Limbaugh: The Japanese Tsunami Is “Obama’s Fault” Because He “Promised To Lower The Sea Levels”
Stay classy, jackass.
Douche.

226 dell*nix  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:18:58pm

re: #219 HappyWarrior

Going to have to go ponder some Lazarus Long quotes. They just seem so appropriate at times these days.

227 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:19:55pm

Courtesy of The Austin Chronicle:

The Perry Trap

Lots of good stuff there. Worth a look, IMO.

228 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:20:28pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

Limbaugh: The Japanese Tsunami Is “Obama’s Fault” Because He “Promised To Lower The Sea Levels”
Stay classy, jackass.
Douche.

He can go fuck himself for all I care. He’s a classless asshole.

229 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:20:35pm

re: #219 HappyWarrior

I would too but none of these guys are looking for my vote anyhow. Still would be nice to have some voices of reason though. Romney’s considered that but he constantly panders to the batshit crazies.

in the gop, though, it always comes down to the same bullshit: tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, castration of regulatory industries, and restriction of the rights of people to recover money when they are injured by large companies are the only goals

since americans are focussed on creating jobs, they promise that all their cherished goals will create jobs. if we were under attack by
aliens, they’d be promising that deregulation is definitely the best way to beat the aliens

230 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:22:55pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

Limbaugh: The Japanese Tsunami Is “Obama’s Fault” Because He “Promised To Lower The Sea Levels”
Stay classy, jackass.
Douche.

He’s gotta be back on the hillbilly heroin. Making even less sense than usual.

231 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:24:10pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

Limbaugh: The Japanese Tsunami Is “Obama’s Fault” Because He “Promised To Lower The Sea Levels”
Stay classy, jackass.
Douche.

KOCH-SUCKER!

232 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:24:57pm

re: #230 makeitstop

He’s gotta be back on the hillbilly heroin. Making even less sense than usual.

Even if Obama magically ‘lowered sea levels to whatever normal is’ the tsunami would’ve been just as damaging.
Then again, I’m trying to apply logic to Rush.

233 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:25:05pm

re: #225 Varek Raith

Limbaugh: The Japanese Tsunami Is “Obama’s Fault” Because He “Promised To Lower The Sea Levels”
Stay classy, jackass.
Douche.

He has a side bet with Glenn Beck on who can say the most outrageously stupid thing without getting called on it on their sponsors/network.

234 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:26:05pm

re: #230 makeitstop

He’s gotta be back on the hillbilly heroin. Making even less sense than usual.

vicodin has nothing to do with making sense…it’s a lousy, ineffective direction to attack him from….jus sayin

235 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:27:45pm

Did Pakistan sell out America?

Washington (CNN) — The strategic partnership between the United States and Pakistan appears once again to be careening toward the brink of self-destruction. Reports that Pakistan may have given Chinese engineers direct access to the remnants of an American Black Hawk stealth helicopter left behind in the May raid on Osama bin Laden, are the latest in a series of blows to the relationship.
236 Lidane  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:28:02pm

re: #230 makeitstop

He’s gotta be back on the hillbilly heroin. Making even less sense than usual.

Nah. He’s just an asshole. Always has been.

237 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:29:02pm

re: #228 HappyWarrior

He can go fuck himself for all I care. He’s a classless asshole.

I was so happy the NFL owners squashed Limpdick’s owner application. I just wish they had been more public. Irsay (Colts) could not do it by himself. I suspect I know who 4-5 others were but will never know for sure.

238 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:29:06pm

re: #234 albusteve

vicodin has nothing to do with making sense…it’s a lousy, ineffective direction to attack him from…jus sayin

That guy just seems to bring out the cheap-shot artist in me.

239 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:29:32pm

re: #234 albusteve

vicodin has nothing to do with making sense…it’s a lousy, ineffective direction to attack him from…jus sayin

What about oxycodone and hydrocodone? That’s what he was being investigated for.

240 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:30:38pm

re: #238 makeitstop

That guy just seems to bring out the cheap-shot artist in me.

he’s definitely scroll material….he doesn’t even deserve mention imo

241 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:31:53pm

re: #239 wrenchwench

What about oxycodone and hydrocodone? That’s what he was being investigated for.

IIRC He had a cigar box full of Oxy..That a crazy amount of drugs

242 HappyWarrior  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:32:25pm

re: #237 Linden Arden

I was so happy the NFL owners squashed Limpdick’s owner application. I just wish they had been more public. Irsay (Colts) could not do it by himself. I suspect I know who 4-5 others were but will never know for sure.

I was too. The guy’s made a career race and gender baiting and then he finds out that actions in fact do have consequences, he got pissy.

243 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:34:02pm

re: #239 wrenchwench

What about oxycodone and hydrocodone? That’s what he was being investigated for.

Vicodin is hydrocodone laced with acetaminophen (tylenol)….oxcycodone without tylenol is Percocet

244 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:35:23pm

I did not know this about Mr. Limbaugh:

In 1992, Limbaugh published his first book, The Way Things Ought To Be, followed by See, I Told You So in 1993.[122] Both became number one on the New York Times Best Seller list, The Way Things Ought to Be remaining there for 24 weeks.[123] Limbaugh acknowledges in the text of the first book that he taped the book and it was transcribed and edited by Wall Street Journal writer John Fund. In the second book, Joseph Farah of WorldNetDaily is named as his collaborator.[124]
245 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:35:45pm

Tea Party lulz…

Tea Party official jokes on Facebook about killing Obamas

The chairwoman of the Sumter Tea Party is taking some heat after posting a joke on Facebook about killing the president and first lady.

Shery Lanford Smith posted the joke on her public profile Thursday afternoon, according to a screen-capture taken by the Sumter Item’s Nick McCormac. Smith removed the post after being asked about it.

In the joke, the Obamas’ helicopter pilot says to his co-pilot, “I could throw both of them out of the window and make 256 million people very happy!” Smith also posted, “If you’re one of [the] 256 million, pass it on,” implying she herself would be happy to see the Obamas killed.

The joke has been circulating for years in various forms which have included the names of multiple political figures. “It’s just a joke,” Smith told the Item when contacted about her post. “I had no idea it would be an issue.”

246 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:36:10pm

re: #243 albusteve

Vicodin is hydrocodone laced with acetaminophen (tylenol)…oxcycodone without tylenol is Percocet

Thank you. I didn’t know that.

247 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:37:43pm

Well, at least he’s not eating a corn dog….
Image: Ptw8H.jpg

248 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:38:14pm

re: #246 wrenchwench

Thank you. I didn’t know that.

it’s all about the same…both opiates and highly addictive, and can swiftly ruin your liver….permanently

249 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:38:46pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

Tea Party lulz…

Tea Party official jokes on Facebook about killing Obamas

Always fun to plug the president into the latest murder-fantasy joke.

JOKE! It’s a JOKE!!!1

250 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:38:55pm

re: #245 Killgore Trout

Tea Party lulz…

Tea Party official jokes on Facebook about killing Obamas

I saw that joke on Facebook a couple of weeks ago, only it had Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes talking about throwing things out of the plane.

251 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:39:09pm

re: #244 wrenchwench

The right-wing has become full-time liars since they realized years ago there is no consequence for such action.

Every time I hear that lying fuckstain Limbaugh he blames Barney Frank for the mortgage crisis despite not a shred of evidence for it.

252 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:39:19pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

Well, at least he’s not eating a corn dog…
Image: Ptw8H.jpg

sieg heil!

253 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:40:54pm

I think I’ll start calling Perry either ‘Greg Stillson’ or ‘The Walking Dude.’

254 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:42:16pm

re: #251 Linden Arden

The right-wing has become full-time liars since they realized years ago there is no consequence for such action.

Every time I hear that lying fuckstain Limbaugh he blames Barney Frank for the mortgage crisis despite not a shred of evidence for it.

Barney was highly protective of FM/FM and continuously claimed neither was in financial trouble…both Bush and McCain warned about dire situation they were approaching but it led to nothing….Frank and Schumer both should have been tossed to the mat over that fiasco….but they had their sweetheart deals too

255 jaunte  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:42:49pm

re: #253 makeitstop

He makes a good Lonesome Rhodes, too.

256 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:45:35pm

re: #255 jaunte

He makes a good Lonesome Rhodes, too.

Yeah, that would work, too.

257 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:47:22pm

re: #254 albusteve

Barney was highly protective of FM/FM and continuously claimed neither was in financial trouble…both Bush and McCain warned about dire situation they were approaching but it led to nothing…Frank and Schumer both should have been tossed to the mat over that fiasco…but they had their sweetheart deals too

Highly protective? In Tom DeLay’s House a Dem could barely get a meeting room much less filibuster (Senate only) legislation. B. Frank was a peon nothing in the House until 2007.

Bush killed HR 1461 - the Fannie Mae Reform Act after it PASSED the House citing the reduction of subprime loans.

Fact is, Bush protected Fannie Mae - not Barney Frank. You must have caught a few of Limpdick’s lies.

HR 1461 - I don’t forget.

258 garhighway  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:47:57pm

re: #254 albusteve

Barney was highly protective of FM/FM and continuously claimed neither was in financial trouble…both Bush and McCain warned about dire situation they were approaching but it led to nothing…Frank and Schumer both should have been tossed to the mat over that fiasco…but they had their sweetheart deals too

But Fannie and Freddie were the absolute least of the crisis. We nearly had our financial system melt down because a bunch of non-bank lenders (Countrywide, New Century, etc…) wrote a bunch of crap mortgages that were designed to implode if real estate values didn’t keep climbing. Add to that the investment bank alchemy of taking the B+ tranches of thsoe securitized loans and magically converting them into AAA (with the help/connivance of the rating agencies) and the next thing you know you have destroyed a trillion dollars of wealth.

Fannie and Freddie were five steps behind the whole time. They were late to the dance. But there are a bunch of people that need to make the credit crisis about the government because they can’t otherwise process the event. They are fools.

259 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:48:10pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Tech question
Has anyone here had to resort to a liquid cooling gadget for their PC? I’m getting overheat warnings on my I7, with fans maxed out.

I’m Liquid cooling my I7 2600k (@ 5GHZ) with the Corsair H70.

Nice and cool..

260 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:51:29pm

re: #258 garhighway

On the Friday before Lehman collapsed I bought 1000 shares of it. I thought like Bear it would get teamed up and saved.

$2000 whoosh! Well, so it goes.

261 garhighway  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:52:46pm

re: #260 Linden Arden

On the Friday before Lehman collapsed I bought 1000 shares of it. I thought like Bear it would get teamed up and saved.

$2000 whoosh! Well, so it goes.

Paulson really blew that call. He had no idea what a shitstorm letting Lehman fail was going to bring.

262 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:54:15pm

re: #257 Linden Arden

Highly protective? In Tom DeLay’s House a Dem could barely get a meeting room much less filibuster (Senate only) legislation. B. Frank was a peon nothing in the House until 2007.

Bush killed HR 1461 - the Fannie Mae Reform Act after it PASSED the House citing the reduction of subprime loans.

Fact is, Bush protected Fannie Mae - not Barney Frank. You must have caught a few of Limpdick’s lies.

HR 1461 - I don’t forget.

don’t listen to Rush…as for Bush killing 1461, why did he?

263 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:55:31pm

re: #262 albusteve

don’t listen to Rush…as for Bush killing 1461, why did he?

Rush is a band, so is Bush, so is Anthrax, so is Beck

264 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:56:42pm

re: #263 WindUpBird

Rush is a band, so is Bush, so is Anthrax, so is Beck

don’t forget the Dead Kennedy’s

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:56:45pm

re: #253 makeitstop

I think I’ll start calling Perry either ‘Greg Stillson’ or ‘The Walking Dude.’

stephen king win

266 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:58:33pm

re: #262 albusteve

don’t listen to Rush…as for Bush killing 1461, why did he?

Straight from the Office of the President

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov…]

He wanted to protect subprime loans. I know - that is 100% contrary to right wing myth.

Sorry to appear strong - I am in high finance by trade.

My other pet peeve is the “audit the Fed” bullshit from the LEFT and the Ron Paul crowd.

267 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 3:58:52pm

re: #264 albusteve

don’t forget the Dead Kennedy’s

ahahahah god dammit of course


I love me some DK, but I like the Jelvins (Jello Biafra + Melvins) even more:

Youtube Video

Dale Crover, a drummer that could eat planets, but he’s too busy playing

268 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:01:28pm

re: #185 HappyWarrior

I think his Confederate apologia/secession crap is just as bothersome. Really though if the GOP nominates Perry for anything nationally, they need to stop claiming to be the party of Lincoln.

I do enjoy telling them, quit shrieking PARTY OF LINCOLN!!! in my face while waving a Confederate flag, on your way to the Southern Evening Cotillion.

Try some other way to get me to mash the R button instead of the D one. /Schadenfreude

269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:02:12pm

re: #263 WindUpBird

Rush is a band, so is Bush, so is Anthrax, so is Beck

I love listening to Rush. And Beck.

270 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:02:58pm

Rush and Bubbles

Youtube Video
271 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:03:20pm

re: #269 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I love listening to Rush. And Beck.

What about Buckley?

272 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:03:56pm

re: #263 WindUpBird

Rush is a band, so is Bush, so is Anthrax, so is Beck

and Europe, and America, and Japan

273 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:04:27pm

re: #266 Linden Arden

Straight from the Office of the President

[Link: georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov…]

He wanted to protect subprime loans. I know - that is 100% contrary to right wing myth.

Sorry to appear strong - I am in high finance by trade.

My other pet peeve is the “audit the Fed” bullshit from the LEFT and the Ron Paul crowd.

thanks for that

274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:07:02pm

re: #270 Amory Blaine

That was awesome, omg.

275 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:07:34pm

re: #271 Linden Arden

What about Buckley?

Def

Youtube Video
276 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:08:38pm

re: #275 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I knew you would get the right Buckley!

277 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:09:46pm

re: #276 Linden Arden

I knew you would get the right Buckley!

I read where Elizabeth was really annoyed that the song was released. Can’t say I agree with her on that.

Christ, I love her.

278 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:11:58pm

re: #277 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Who is she? (you obviously know more about Buckley than I do).

We are talking Jeff Buckley, right?

279 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:12:00pm

re: #270 Amory Blaine

Rush and Bubbles

[Video]

Lifeson with the Telecaster FTW!

280 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:12:50pm

re: #279 makeitstop

Lifeson with the Telecaster FTW!

Noticed that…

281 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:13:48pm

re: #280 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Noticed that…

I’ve really come to love my Teles. How can the most no-frills guitar on the planet be one of the most versatile?

Leo was a badass.

282 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:14:27pm

re: #278 Linden Arden

Who is she? (you obviously know more about Buckley than I do).

We are talking Jeff Buckley, right?

That is Elizabeth Fraser, lead singer of Cocteau Twins.
[Link: 4ad.com…]

283 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:15:45pm

re: #281 makeitstop

I’ve really come to love my Teles. How can the most no-frills guitar on the planet be one of the most versatile?

Leo was a badass.

I test drove a used one of these today.

[Link: www.clavia.se…]

284 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:18:46pm

Wow - I just saw on Wiki that Buckley covered Van the Man’s ‘The Way Young Lovers Do’.

That is like trying to repaint “Guernica’.

285 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:23:02pm

re: #281 makeitstop

I’ve really come to love my Teles. How can the most no-frills guitar on the planet be one of the most versatile?

Leo was a badass.

I can’t bring myself to touch one because they are about the ugliest damned thing I’ve ever seen.

286 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:28:47pm

i want somebody to give me a fender rhodes

(actually, the damn amp would cost more than the keyboard…)

287 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:29:55pm

re: #285 negativ

I can’t bring myself to touch one because they are about the ugliest damned thing I’ve ever seen.

never heard that one before…
likely never will again either

288 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:32:58pm

re: #286 engineer dog

i want somebody to give me a fender rhodes

(actually, the damn amp would cost more than the keyboard…)

One of those would be nice. Careful of that repetitive stress, though. Can be a real lulu.

My BFF once found a KB in a box in the attic of a house she was renting. She calls me and says, want a(nother) keyboard? It’s old and in a box. I tell her I don’t have room for one more anything, but ask what kind, She says, hmm let’s see, oh the box says f-a-r-f-i-s-a on it.

Crap! Could’a had a free Farfisa.

289 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:34:45pm

DNC Chair Wasserman Schultz Booed & Heckled in Iowa

Youtube Video

“We need to come together and work together”
Heh

290 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:36:46pm

re: #236 Lidane

Nah. He’s just an asshole. Always has been.

I disagree.

An asshole is designed to keep shit in until it’s appropriate to get rid of it. Limbaugh lets shit spew randomly, usually when the fan is on full speed.

291 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:37:30pm

re: #290 b_sharp

I disagree.

An asshole is designed to keep shit in until it’s appropriate to get rid of it. Limbaugh lets shit spew randomly, usually when the fan is on full speed.

my, you really are behind

292 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:38:35pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

After what she has been through - a double mastectomy (IIRC) and harassment from West and still working like she does.

Assholes taking their cue from FNN.

293 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:39:47pm

re: #259 Amory Blaine

I’m Liquid cooling my I7 2600k (@ 5GHZ) with the Corsair H70.

Nice and cool..

You have it OC’d to 5000k?

Impressive.

294 Stan the Demanded Plan  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:42:18pm

Just popping in here, heard part of Perry’s speech in the car. DAMNIT, his voice sounds so much like W squared. oh shit.

295 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:42:24pm

I blame WUB for thisre: #291 albusteve

my, you really are behind

Better to be behind than bumming around

296 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:42:42pm

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Ugh. Conservobaggers, leftybaggers, who can tell the difference anymore.

297 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:42:46pm

re: #295 laZardo

WHOOPS

meant to link to this

298 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:43:28pm

re: #294 Stanley Sea

Just popping in here, heard part of Perry’s speech in the car. DAMNIT, his voice sounds so much like W squared. oh shit.

idiots love guys that talk like idiots :D

299 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:43:54pm

re: #296 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ugh. Conservobaggers, leftybaggers, who can tell the difference anymore.



That’s why I’ve taken to calling them victory crouches.

300 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:44:02pm

re: #291 albusteve

my, you really are behind

I just got back.

301 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:45:51pm

too many guitarists on LGF, not enough drummers :D

Youtube Video

feel that, Mark Zonder is lord

302 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:46:28pm

re: #300 b_sharp

I just got back.

it was a pun

303 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:48:23pm

re: #300 b_sharp

I just got back.

Baby got it.

304 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:49:07pm

re: #301 WindUpBird

too many guitarists on LGF, not enough drummers :D

[Video]feel that, Mark Zonder is lord

was that some highlight?…
I think your confused with the drum tech

305 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:49:12pm

re: #302 albusteve

it was a pun

But you don’t do puns.

Now my world has gone ass over tea kettle.

306 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:50:05pm

re: #305 b_sharp

But you don’t do puns.

Now my world has gone ass over tea kettle.

don’t do puns?….I invented them here

307 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:50:19pm

re: #301 WindUpBird

too many guitarists on LGF, not enough drummers :D

[Video]feel that, Mark Zonder is lord

Ooo I luv me some Fates Warning. I have Awaken the Guardian, with Steve Zimmerman on drums. John Arch

308 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:50:37pm

re: #301 WindUpBird

too many guitarists on LGF, not enough drummers :D

[Video]feel that, Mark Zonder is lord

At LGF like in real life.. It’s hard to find a drummer that can stay in the pocket.. Dang drummers.. Can’t keep a beat for a 3:35 song..They always..And I mean always speed up half way through the tune…

309 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:51:47pm

re: #303 laZardo

Baby got it.

Are you try to rib me?

310 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:54:28pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

At LGF like in real life.. It’s hard to find a drummer that can stay in the pocket.. Dang drummers.. Can’t keep a beat for a 3:35 song..They always..And I mean always speed up half way through the tune…

Not where I come from.

311 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:54:33pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

At LGF like in real life.. It’s hard to find a drummer that can stay in the pocket.. Dang drummers.. Can’t keep a beat for a 3:35 song..They always..And I mean always speed up half way through the tune…

most people are even more ignorant about drummers than guitar players…you need to be exceptionally good to tell a great drummer from the mediocre…neither Watts nor Keltner ever played a solo that I know of

312 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:55:36pm

re: #311 albusteve

most people are even more ignorant about drummers than guitar players…you need to be exceptionally good to tell a great drummer from the mediocre…neither Watts nor Keltner ever played a solo that I know of

could even say the same for bass players

313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:56:43pm

This series is fun.

Youtube Video
314 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:57:26pm

re: #307 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ooo I luv me some Fates Warning. I have Awaken the Guardian, with Steve Zimmerman on drums. John Arch

okay you’re now my favorite human :D

Youtube Video

though my favorite fates record is still Parallels because insane drums and massive hooks. SOMEWHERE I have/had a bootleg of the Perfect Symmetry tour with Ray Alder doing John Arch-era songs, which was weird, but still worked!

315 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 4:58:37pm

re: #296 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ugh. Conservobaggers, leftybaggers, who can tell the difference anymore.

Cue up some more good music.


Youtube Video

I like German Expressionism.

316 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:02:26pm

re: #310 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Not where I come from.

Where do you hail from? You know..I trashed drummers because of my experience.. I played in small time bands in High School and College..We had one great drummer in my life when I played in Blue Rhino in Napa.. A friend of mine who was really great told me he was stealing our drummer after listening to our tape.. I said no you are not.. He said yes I am.. And he took one of the best drummers I have ever heard from us..

317 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:02:40pm

re: #313 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

you heard the OSI records, right? Portnoy on the first two, and Gavin Harrison on the third, holy hell so good, I have a hard time listening to much DT anymore, but OMG OSI

318 Stan the Demanded Plan  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:03:01pm

Child’s Play

319 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:03:53pm

re: #312 albusteve

could even say the same for bass players

That’s a tougher comment to agree with. When listening to Geddy L, Jaco P, JPJ it only takes about 5 seconds to recognize their skill.

Drummers are much tougher unless they solo.

320 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:04:14pm

re: #308 HoosierHoops

At LGF like in real life.. It’s hard to find a drummer that can stay in the pocket.. Dang drummers.. Can’t keep a beat for a 3:35 song..They always..And I mean always speed up half way through the tune…

my friend the asshole-musician-know-it-all bass player would record my high school garage band at our rehearsals, and then take the cassette home and time it to a metronome to see if I could stay in the pocket, hahahah he was such a dick

(by the way, yes I did)

321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:07:26pm

re: #317 WindUpBird

I haven’t but I need to! I see on wiki Kevin Moore’s in there too. Ok yeah, I see what I’m going to be looking up later on.

322 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:07:52pm

re: #319 b_sharp

That’s a tougher comment to agree with. When listening to Geddy L, Jaco P, JPJ it only takes about 5 seconds to recognize their skill.

Drummers are much tougher unless they solo.

you know what to listen for….typical record buyers are clueless
to this day McCartney is still considered one of the very best….he’s no Jaco technically but man that cat could lay down a walking bass line like no other in his prime…Bill Wyman was very good…these re high profile examples

323 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:09:27pm

re: #316 HoosierHoops

Where do you hail from? You know..I trashed drummers because of my experience.. I played in small time bands in High School and College..We had one great drummer in my life when I played in Blue Rhino in Napa.. A friend of mine who was really great told me he was stealing our drummer after listening to our tape.. I said no you are not.. He said yes I am.. And he took one of the best drummers I have ever heard from us..

I’m from Southern CA, outside of LA.

All I can say is, do not fall in love with the drummer. Lol take my word on this one.

324 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:10:16pm

re: #322 albusteve

typical record buyers are clueless
to this day

lmao

325 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:10:28pm

re: #319 b_sharp

That’s a tougher comment to agree with. When listening to Geddy L, Jaco P, JPJ it only takes about 5 seconds to recognize their skill.

Drummers are much tougher unless they solo.

i think i’m beginning to get a better ear for it - are they adding accents that respond to and highlight the phrase or riff? are they throwing out the occasional sharp little fill? is the overall beat getting your ass offa the barstool and making you want to dance?

326 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:10:36pm

re: #321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I haven’t but I need to! I see on wiki Kevin Moore’s in there too. Ok yeah, I see what I’m going to be looking up later on.

ffff it’s a project so good it’s just not fair, it’s Jim Matheos of Fates and Kevin Moore as the core “band” and then friends show up and kick ass ( Malone from Cynic, Portnoy, etc)


Youtube Video
Youtube Video
327 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:11:16pm

re: #315 Linden Arden

Cue up some more good music.

[Link: youtu.be…]

I like German Expressionism.

It’s hard not to.

Is there anyone on earth like Tom Waits?

328 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:11:20pm

re: #316 HoosierHoops

Where do you hail from? You know..I trashed drummers because of my experience.. I played in small time bands in High School and College..We had one great drummer in my life when I played in Blue Rhino in Napa.. A friend of mine who was really great told me he was stealing our drummer after listening to our tape.. I said no you are not.. He said yes I am.. And he took one of the best drummers I have ever heard from us..

My brother had an incredible sense of timing. He never sped up or slowed down unless required by the song. At 13 - 14 he was in two adult jazz groups.

329 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:11:38pm

re: #325 engineer dog

i think i’m beginning to get a better ear for it - are they adding accents that respond to and highlight the phrase or riff? are they throwing out the occasional sharp little fill? is the overall beat getting your ass offa the barstool and making you want to dance?

aka, Mike Bordin of Faith No More, or Jean-Paul Gaster of Clutch

330 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:12:40pm

re: #320 WindUpBird

my friend the asshole-musician-know-it-all bass player would record my high school garage band at our rehearsals, and then take the cassette home and time it to a metronome to see if I could stay in the pocket, hahahah he was such a dick

(by the way, yes I did)

I played years ago and know the excitement of playing live stuff at parties and clubs makes the drummer speed up.. They can’t help it..If I was better than an average guitar player in my life I would be a pro…I just never had the licks like Charles.. I have posted tons of words here of my songs over the last couple of years..Cause that’s what I love about music.. The words..
The funny thing..Google has never found a match to my words because I am original with my words.. I love music.. It heals my soul

331 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:13:06pm

re: #325 engineer dog

i think i’m beginning to get a better ear for it - are they adding accents that respond to and highlight the phrase or riff? are they throwing out the occasional sharp little fill? is the overall beat getting your ass offa the barstool and making you want to dance?

back in the beginning the bass was little more than a melodic bass drum…times changed til the bass was the melody (McCartney) and evolved into a lead riff instrument ala Stanley Clarke

332 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:14:25pm

re: #326 WindUpBird

Yeah, this is seriously my kind of stuff. Love it.

333 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:14:45pm

re: #324 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

lmao

I think Steve is correct. Most buyers are high school students who are more interested in the meaning of the lyrics or in lyrics that are simple enough to sing along to.

334 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:15:41pm

re: #332 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, this is seriously my kind of stuff. Love it.

Three albums of this level of awesome, and they’re mixing the fourth now, and sending tantalizing little photos and videos of the process to their twitter feed :D

335 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:16:34pm

re: #318 Stanley Sea

Child’s Play

He has an attachment.

336 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:18:53pm

re: #325 engineer dog

i think i’m beginning to get a better ear for it - are they adding accents that respond to and highlight the phrase or riff? are they throwing out the occasional sharp little fill? is the overall beat getting your ass offa the barstool and making you want to dance?

Part of it is knowing when not to play a note. Another is knowing when to take control.

337 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:20:42pm

re: #333 b_sharp

I think Steve is correct. Most buyers are high school students who are more interested in the meaning of the lyrics or in lyrics that are simple enough to sing along to.

I was lmao at today’s music buyers buying records. I was in the Haight today and stopped in a couple vintage record shops I used to haunt when I was collecting. I’m just glad they’re still open. A lot of those shops closed up when they sold their inventories, or just put them all up on ebay.

338 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:21:39pm

re: #334 WindUpBird

Three albums of this level of awesome, and they’re mixing the fourth now, and sending tantalizing little photos and videos of the process to their twitter feed :D

always a good debate….who did a threefer?
the stuff of legend

339 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:22:14pm

re: #337 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I was lmao at today’s music buyers buying records. I was in the Haight today and stopped in a couple vintage record shops I used to haunt when I was collecting. I’m just glad they’re still open. A lot of those shops closed up when they sold their inventories, or just put them all up on ebay.

We still have Music Millenium, it’s probably staying alive because of all the in-store performances they host *_*

340 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:22:30pm

re: #331 albusteve

back in the beginning the bass was little more than a melodic bass drum…times changed til the bass was the melody (McCartney) and evolved into a lead riff instrument ala Stanley Clarke

Don’t forget Jamerson and Bootsy Collins. Jamerson was who early McCartney was imitating.

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:23:17pm

re: #340 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Don’t forget Jamerson and Bootsy Collins. Jamerson was who early McCartney was imitating.

Youtube Video
342 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:23:35pm

re: #337 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I love the City…I grew up in Napa Valley..So we always went there to check out the big city..The most beautiful City in the world

343 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:23:46pm

re: #336 b_sharp

Part of it is knowing when not to play a note. Another is knowing when to take control.

very profound….music is full of little dead spaces and managing them in the arrangement is not always easy…everybody wants to play every beat…when not to play can make the difference

344 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:24:22pm

re: #339 WindUpBird

We still have Music Millenium, it’s probably staying alive because of all the in-store performances they host *_*

Ever play there?

Our version of that is Amoeba, also in the Haight. Used to be a bowling alley. Now it’s a huge-ass CD/LP/DVD store.

345 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:25:38pm

re: #337 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I was lmao at today’s music buyers buying records. I was in the Haight today and stopped in a couple vintage record shops I used to haunt when I was collecting. I’m just glad they’re still open. A lot of those shops closed up when they sold their inventories, or just put them all up on ebay.

a lot a musicians I know still call it making a record…it’s a euphemism now

346 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:25:44pm

re: #341 WindUpBird

[Video]

Catfish recently passed. [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

347 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:25:52pm

re: #322 albusteve

you know what to listen for…typical record buyers are clueless
to this day McCartney is still considered one of the very best…he’s no Jaco technically but man that cat could lay down a walking bass line like no other in his prime…Bill Wyman was very good…these re high profile examples

John Entwistle was crucial to the sound of The Who giving a framework for both Keith and Townsend to work off of.

348 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:25:55pm

re: #344 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ever play there?

Our version of that is Amoeba, also in the Haight. Used to be a bowling alley. Now it’s a huge-ass CD/LP/DVD store.

good heavens I haven’t been in a band in like 12 years ;_;

I know of Amoeba, but I haven’t been *_*

349 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:28:17pm

re: #342 HoosierHoops

I love the City…I grew up in Napa Valley..So we always went there to check out the big city..The most beautiful City in the world

Some days, it really is breathtaking. Are you in IN?

350 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:28:44pm

re: #347 wlewisiii

John Entwistle was crucial to the sound of The Who giving a framework for both Keith and Townsend to work off of.

the classic rhythm section
Moon and Entwistle….they drive the bus

351 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:29:47pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

good heavens I haven’t been in a band in like 12 years ;_;

I know of Amoeba, but I haven’t been *_*

3 for me :/ But I really needed the break.

Too may exes in that band, oy. Sometimes that energy can work, but ftmp it’s just a big pain in the bohunkus for all involved.

352 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:29:57pm

re: #349 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Some days, it really is breathtaking. Are you in IN?

No they transfered me to Oklahoma.. I work by OU.. My office is in Silly Cone Valley.. I’ll be back home in a few years

353 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:30:49pm

re: #352 HoosierHoops

No they transfered me to Oklahoma.. I work by OU.. My office is in Silly Cone Valley.. I’ll be back home in a few years

the orchard across the road is now a strip mall

354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:31:51pm

re: #351 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

3 for me :/ But I really needed the break.

Too may exes in that band, oy. Sometimes that energy can work, but ftmp it’s just a big pain in the bohunkus for all involved.

my problem is I’m a dictator :D eventually I may put a recording project together, but the project will be me on all instruments because I become That Guy in a band, ordering everyone around :P

Right now I’m just trying to get my guitar skills up from suck to merely lame

355 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:31:58pm

re: #347 wlewisiii

John Entwistle was crucial to the sound of The Who giving a framework for both Keith and Townsend to work off of.

I think I posted this as a High-Drama 80s KBs Clip of the Day but why not…

Youtube Video
356 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:32:13pm

re: #348 WindUpBird

good heavens I haven’t been in a band in like 12 years ;_;

I know of Amoeba, but I haven’t been *_*

I haven’t been in a formal band for 30 years. I jam with my brother several times a year and we pass our music back and forth but nothing improves ability like being in an active band.

Well maybe woodshedding.

357 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:32:28pm

re: #301 WindUpBird

too many guitarists on LGF, not enough drummers :D

[Video]feel that, Mark Zonder is lord

The True Supernatural Lords of Drumming are Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham, and Vinnie Colaiuta.

So let it be written.

358 Atlas Fails  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:33:24pm

re: #272 laZardo

and Europe, and America, and Japan

I AM AMERICA!!!!

-Herman Cain

/inside joke for those who watched the Ames poll speeches

359 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:33:26pm

re: #356 b_sharp

I haven’t been in a formal band for 30 years. I jam with my brother several times a year and we pass our music back and forth but nothing improves ability like being in an active band.

Well maybe woodshedding.

I just been writing little things, recording them, filing them away, repeat…

360 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:33:42pm

re: #354 WindUpBird

my problem is I’m a dictator :D eventually I may put a recording project together, but the project will be me on all instruments because I become That Guy in a band, ordering everyone around :P

Right now I’m just trying to get my guitar skills up from suck to merely lame

LOL!
effort

361 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:34:00pm

re: #352 HoosierHoops

No they transfered me to Oklahoma.. I work by OU.. My office is in Silly Cone Valley.. I’ll be back home in a few years

Ah, Norman. I visited there a couple years ago. Was in a LDR with someone in Tulsa, daughter was at OU so we went to visit. I liked it a lot.

362 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:34:20pm

re: #356 b_sharp

I haven’t been in a formal band for 30 years. I jam with my brother several times a year and we pass our music back and forth but nothing improves ability like being in an active band.

Well maybe woodshedding.

try drugs
?

363 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:34:30pm

re: #357 negativ

The True Supernatural Lords of Drumming are Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham, and Vinnie Colaiuta.

So let it be written.

Not fair! :D

I’m saying, for my prog-metal background, he’s my personal deity, I have a shrine to him, burnt offerings, speaking in tongues, the whole bit

364 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:35:09pm

re: #354 WindUpBird

my problem is I’m a dictator :D eventually I may put a recording project together, but the project will be me on all instruments because I become That Guy in a band, ordering everyone around :P

Right now I’m just trying to get my guitar skills up from suck to merely lame

Oh man, guitar skills. Mine have been at “put her through a million effects and turn her down in the mix” for decades lol

365 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:35:15pm

re: #359 WindUpBird

I just been writing little things, recording them, filing them away, repeat…

I can develop music but lyrics, not so much.

366 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:35:16pm

re: #360 albusteve

LOL!
effort

it reeks of effort!

But at least my hands are doing what I want them to, kinda sorta

367 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:35:35pm

re: #357 negativ

The True Supernatural Lords of Drumming are Bill Bruford, Billy Cobham, and Vinnie Colaiuta.

So let it be written.

pretty good three guys right there….
I always try to get Jim Keltner some attention

368 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:35:50pm

re: #362 albusteve

try drugs
?

Too old.

369 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:35:59pm

re: #353 albusteve

the orchard across the road is now a strip mall

When I was in grade school.. Napa Valley was a sleepy farm area..
Then the Valley blew up…Everybody that was anybody moved there, even if it was just Robin Williams with a summer home..Wineries sprung up everywhere…The cost of living went through the roof…Napa has changed a lot.. I love her anyway

370 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:36:46pm

re: #364 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh man, guitar skills. Mine have been at “put her through a million effects and turn her down in the mix” for decades lol

I use it like a blunt object :D What goes here? Sabbath power chords go here!

371 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:37:09pm

re: #366 WindUpBird

it reeks of effort!

But at least my hands are doing what I want them to, kinda sorta

I disconnect my mind from my hands. It seems to work better.

372 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:37:15pm

re: #363 WindUpBird

Not fair! :D

I’m saying, for my prog-metal background, he’s my personal deity, I have a shrine to him, burnt offerings, speaking in tongues, the whole bit

Yeah, I know what you mean. I’m definitely a convent bride of Bruford.

373 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:37:28pm

re: #368 b_sharp

Too old.

Geritol’s technically a drug, isn’t it?

374 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:37:40pm

re: #365 b_sharp

I can develop music but lyrics, not so much.

Richards laid down the riffs, Jagger wrote the words….
mostly

375 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:38:15pm

re: #361 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ah, Norman. I visited there a couple years ago. Was in a LDR with someone in Tulsa, daughter was at OU so we went to visit. I liked it a lot.

I love Norman…Great college town…

376 laZardo  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:38:27pm

re: #373 negativ

Geritol’s technically a drug, isn’t it?

geritolizaheluvadrug.

/rick james

377 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:38:43pm

re: #373 negativ

Geritol’s technically a drug, isn’t it?

ROTFLMAO!

378 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:39:02pm

re: #370 WindUpBird

I use it like a blunt object :D What goes here? Sabbath power chords go here!

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, is that you?

379 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:39:16pm

re: #366 WindUpBird

it reeks of effort!

But at least my hands are doing what I want them to, kinda sorta

I have confidence in you….it’s not about being the greatest, it’s about the attempt…if you fail, I’ll still love you

380 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:39:29pm

re: #378 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, is that you?

I even look like him kinda *_*

381 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:39:37pm

re: #354 WindUpBird

my problem is I’m a dictator :D eventually I may put a recording project together, but the project will be me on all instruments because I become That Guy in a band, ordering everyone around :P

Right now I’m just trying to get my guitar skills up from suck to merely lame

Yeah see, I’m just the opposite. Never been a lead player or rock star type.

382 Linden Arden  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:40:09pm

I grew up in Athens, GA. Grad 1981.

Saw a lot.

Like Drive By Truckers most recently.

383 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:40:14pm

re: #379 albusteve

I have confidence in you…it’s not about being the greatest, it’s about the attempt…if you fail, I’ll still love you

thanks ^_^;;; My solution is to aim low! Power chords and too much distortion works for me

384 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:40:31pm

re: #354 WindUpBird

my problem is I’m a dictator :D eventually I may put a recording project together, but the project will be me on all instruments because I become That Guy in a band, ordering everyone around :P

Right now I’m just trying to get my guitar skills up from suck to merely lame

You just need a bunch of submissive personalities to play with.

It can be Wub and the Subs.

385 Kragar  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:40:36pm

re: #380 WindUpBird

I even look like him kinda *_*

Youtube Video
386 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:41:24pm

re: #367 albusteve

pretty good three guys right there…
I always try to get Jim Keltner some attention

Youtube Video

Hafta crank this one up a bit:

Youtube Video
387 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:41:31pm

re: #369 HoosierHoops

When I was in grade school.. Napa Valley was a sleepy farm area..
Then the Valley blew up…Everybody that was anybody moved there, even if it was just Robin Williams with a summer home..Wineries sprung up everywhere…The cost of living went through the roof…Napa has changed a lot.. I love her anyway

cool…I despise what money and churches and snobby newbies turned my little hometown village into…fuckers drove me away

388 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:41:49pm

re: #381 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah see, I’m just the opposite. Never been a lead player or rock star type.

I just have a Thing I Want To Hear, and I get pissed when i don’t hear it. :D

389 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:42:20pm

re: #384 Obdicut

You just need a bunch of submissive personalities to play with.

It can be Wub and the Subs.

oh heavens no :D


The worst was me and my brother in the same band, THE WORST, nothing but arguments

390 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:42:26pm

re: #383 WindUpBird

thanks ^_^;;; My solution is to aim low! Power chords and too much distortion works for me

Enough distortion and mistakes completely disappear.

391 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:42:35pm

re: #373 negativ

Geritol’s technically a drug, isn’t it?

only when uses intraveineously

392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:43:34pm

re: #370 WindUpBird

I use it like a blunt object :D What goes here? Sabbath power chords go here!

Yes! Love that. First band I was in, well secular band, was in high school. We did prog covers. Oh christ my parents had a shit fit when they figured it out. Lol!

393 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:43:35pm

re: #355 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I think I posted this as a High-Drama 80s KBs Clip of the Day but why not…

[Video]

Very good one, though I’ll admit I prefer this one.

Youtube Video
394 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:43:44pm

re: #383 WindUpBird

thanks ^_^;;; My solution is to aim low! Power chords and too much distortion works for me

get a bunch of pedals…presto!

395 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:44:26pm

re: #394 albusteve

get a bunch of pedals…presto!

Digital delay hides SO MANY SINS

396 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:44:53pm

re: #386 wrenchwench

[Video]

can always count on you…
the elders rock

397 Achilles Tang  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:45:06pm

re: #1 Iwouldprefernotto

Congrats. Karma 666.

Evil eye for you :)

398 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:45:18pm

re: #389 WindUpBird

oh heavens no :D

The worst was me and my brother in the same band, THE WORST, nothing but arguments

CAN”T YOU PLAY THE RIGHT F*%&ING NOTE?

399 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:45:26pm

re: #396 albusteve

can always count on you…
the elders rock

A comment from one of ‘em:

They shot some promo pix in San Francisco on this mini-tour for a drum endorsement. The photog asked Mr. Keltner if he wanted to take his sunglasses off for some of the photos. He dryly replied, “If I took my glasses off nobody would know that it was me.” Great guy - great drummer - a real pro.
400 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:45:36pm

re: #392 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yes! Love that. First band I was in, well secular band, was in high school. We did prog covers. Oh christ my parents had a shit fit when they figured it out. Lol!

my brother and I managed to do a talent show thing in high school where we did Motorhead covers, I still can’t believe they let us up there

401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:46:05pm

re: #393 wlewisiii

There’s that blond Telecaster again. Gets around.

402 Atlas Fails  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:46:29pm

From the Shrieking Harpy’s blog, file this one under “not understanding how things work”:

9/11 MESSAGE: NEW AL QAEDA LEADER CALLS ON “MUSLIM BROTHERS EVERYWHERE” FOR US ATTACKS

Another influential misunderstander of Islam. Does anyone else find it curious that the most devout and pious Muslims are all misunderstanding Islam in exactly the same way, reading the exact same words for over 1,400 years.

Image: idiot.jpg

403 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:47:02pm

re: #398 b_sharp

CAN”T YOU PLAY THE RIGHT F*%&ING NOTE?

I wish that was all it was! it was the Artistic Differences, he was a little more folk/new wave and I was a little more satanic death metal

He listens to a lot of Great Big Sea, and well, I listen to Yob, so…

Youtube Video
404 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:47:19pm

re: #169 Obdicut
re: #166 negativ
re: #177 b_sharp
re: #178 CuriousLurker
re: #180 dell*nix

Thanks to you folks for answering I got called away and missed the replies. Yes I have a big heat sink and the big CPU fan. And it’s really clean inside, no dust. As an experiment I removed the side of the tower and that reduced the temp about 5 degrees C. So more fans would help a little. The room temp was 80F, so I could cool the room more for editing/authoring.

But the heat really comes up fast when the 4 processors hit 95%+

So I think I’ll try water cooling. Can’t hurt to run cooler.

405 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:47:38pm

re: #394 albusteve

get a bunch of pedals…presto!

GT-6

406 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:47:44pm

re: #387 albusteve

cool…I despise what money and churches and snobby newbies turned my little hometown village into…fuckers drove me away

Well I’m not saying that Napa Valley had the most Snobs per square mile move in during the 80’s..You know..I’ve been to some great Valley parties acting like a local wine snob.. I’ve got stories Steve.. Hehe
How are you felling?.. I’ll never forget 8-13-2010…

407 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:48:07pm

re: #401 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There’s that blond Telecaster again. Gets around.

Always did prefer the sound of a telecaster, especially in rock.

408 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:48:16pm

re: #405 b_sharp

GT-6

hooray for Boss/Roland

409 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:49:09pm

re: #259 Amory Blaine

Thanks, I’ll try one. It seems that’s the best for running those processors so hard. I have a 45 minute video to export to WMV, and that will surely take a couple hours.

410 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:49:34pm

re: #404 Rightwingconspirator

re: #166 negativ
re: #177 b_sharp
re: #178 CuriousLurker
re: #180 dell*nix

Thanks to you folks for answering I got called away and missed the replies. Yes I have a big heat sink and the big CPU fan. And it’s really clean inside, no dust. As an experiment I removed the side of the tower and that reduced the temp about 5 degrees C. So more fans would help a little. The room temp was 80F, so I could cool the room more for editing/authoring.

But the heat really comes up fast when the 4 processors hit 95%+

So I think I’ll try water cooling. Can’t hurt to run cooler.

What temp is it getting to?

411 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:50:08pm

re: #393 wlewisiii

Nice one. I just love everything he does. I even loved White City, didn’t care how it got panned.

412 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:51:31pm

re: #406 HoosierHoops

Well I’m not saying that Napa Valley had the most Snobs per square mile move in during the 80’s..You know..I’ve been to some great Valley parties acting like a local wine snob.. I’ve got stories Steve.. Hehe
How are you felling?.. I’ll never forget 8-13-2010…

got my leg last Fri…
man, I’ve got work to do, but life is already FAR easier…
blue titanium…gotta figure out how to fix a ski boot to it

413 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:52:42pm

re: #408 WindUpBird

hooray for Boss/Roland

Here’s my other toy.

You can see the pickup on my Tak.

414 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:52:52pm

re: #408 WindUpBird

hooray for Boss/Roland

Ex in that band I was talking about still owes me a Blues Driver and a Chorus >:(

415 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:53:20pm

re: #412 albusteve

got my leg last Fri…
man, I’ve got work to do, but life is already FAR easier…
blue titanium…gotta figure out how to fix a ski boot to it

Good to hear bro.

416 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:53:34pm

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry Proposes Economically Impossible State Takeover Of Social Security

Why, that sounds suspiciously like what would happen if States opted out of everyone buying health care.

Haven’t I heard something about that recently?

417 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:54:43pm

re: #406 HoosierHoops

Well I’m not saying that Napa Valley had the most Snobs per square mile move in during the 80’s..You know..I’ve been to some great Valley parties acting like a local wine snob..

Ever go to any Industry Standard parties? Those were hilarious.

418 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:54:52pm

re: #413 b_sharp

Here’s my other toy.

You can see the pickup on my Tak.

GUITAR SYNTH!

my brother had an older Roland when we were in a band together, trying to remember the model number *_*

419 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:56:34pm

re: #415 b_sharp

Good to hear bro.

thanks…been a long haul but the road ahead is finally open

420 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:57:41pm

re: #419 albusteve

thanks…been a long haul but the road ahead is finally open

Off on your way hit the open road
There is magic at your fingers.

421 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:57:57pm

re: #413 b_sharp

Here’s my other toy.

You can see the pickup on my Tak.

GR-1, that’s what we had: Image: 1-030-030983-Roland-GR-1.jpg

sexy yellow!

422 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 5:58:06pm

re: #410 b_sharp

It hit 95C yesterday, so I shut down Adobe Encore and it cooled right down. I have it set to auto hibernate at that temperature.

423 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:00:37pm

re: #420 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Off on your way hit the open road
There is magic at your fingers.

travel is my intoxicant…it’s what I do
but the road of life is so harsh compared to the byways…
I’m not complaining

424 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:01:11pm

god dammit, now I gotta pick up the guitar and noodle, too much talk of it

425 HoosierHoops  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:03:25pm

re: #423 albusteve

travel is my intoxicant…it’s what I do
but the road of life is so harsh compared to the byways…
I’m not complaining

Why did you give me an opening for my heroes?

Youtube Video
426 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:04:11pm

re: #421 WindUpBird

GR-1, that’s what we had: Image: 1-030-030983-Roland-GR-1.jpg

sexy yellow!

Cool vintage.

427 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:06:43pm

re: #425 HoosierHoops

Why did you give me an opening for my heroes?

[Video]

there you have it exactly…I’m happiest on the road…houses and property and stuff is okay, but I like being lost in the Great Big

428 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:11:00pm

re: #75 b_sharp

Austin needs to import some wolfs to keep the coyotes at bay.

The biggest baddest wolf in town just announced for POTUS.

429 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:11:05pm

re: #426 b_sharp

Cool vintage.

I love that 80’s-riffic look to old electronic music toys from that era


see also, Ensoniq Mirage:[Link: www.syntaur.com…]

430 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:13:26pm

re: #283 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I test drove a used one of these today.

[Link: www.clavia.se…]

Now that looks useful!

I like the idea of the built-in distortion. A Leslie is nice, but it’s nicer if you can push it a little.

431 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:13:56pm

I must be doing something right or something wrong, but I pulled up Baba O’Reilly on Youtube and my 9 year old’s comment was “This song, again?”

432 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:15:12pm

re: #285 negativ

I can’t bring myself to touch one because they are about the ugliest damned thing I’ve ever seen.

Yeah, but they sure get the job done.

433 albusteve  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:16:57pm

re: #432 makeitstop

Yeah, but they sure get the job done.

the Telly was a masterpiece of design…a beautiful guitar

434 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:17:06pm

re: #432 makeitstop

Yeah, but they sure get the job done.

As the heaviest solid body they can also be used as a weapon.

435 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:19:15pm

re: #433 albusteve

the Telly was a masterpiece of design…a beautiful guitar

My second guitar was a Tele clone. My brother landed on it during a fight and broke the head off.

436 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:21:33pm

re: #409 Rightwingconspirator

The Corsair H50 gets good reviews also but I like the low profile pump of the H70. Plus the thicker radiator and additional fan don’t hurt either. Plus it comes with AS5 or other thermal paste preapplied. I can rock 5.2 GHZ on stock voltage but I save 10c by keeping it on 5.0 GHZ.

437 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:23:54pm

re: #436 Amory Blaine

The Corsair H50 gets good reviews also but I like the low profile pump of the H70. Plus the thicker radiator and additional fan don’t hurt either. Plus it comes with AS5 or other thermal paste preapplied. I can rock 5.2 GHZ on stock voltage but I save 10c by keeping it on 5.0 GHZ.

Corsair is a quality brand, I use their DDR3 RAM.

438 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:27:42pm

re: #272 laZardo

and Europe, and America, and Japan

And UK

Youtube Video

And Asia

Youtube Video
439 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:35:25pm

re: #430 makeitstop

Now that looks useful!

I like the idea of the built-in distortion. A Leslie is nice, but it’s nicer if you can push it a little.

This is my ideal Leslie…

Model 21 System, baby!

440 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:35:45pm

re: #438 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And UK

My favorite UK song. Holdworth’s solo on that song is still years ahead of its time.

441 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:36:09pm

re: #438 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

and Tangier

Youtube Video
442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 6:59:40pm

re: #441 WindUpBird

Ah yes, the poor man’s Whitesnake.

443 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 7:03:23pm

re: #442 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ah yes, the poor man’s Whitesnake.

I thought Whitesnake was the poor man’s Whitesnake! :)

444 lostlakehiker  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 8:12:02pm

re: #216 HappyWarrior

I’ve said it a couple times already here but I think despite the fact that Romney is considered more electable than Perry, Perry will use the fact he’s won three gubertorial elections to portray himself as a proven winner and more “electable” than Romney. Don’t forget that Perry’s more charismatic than Mitt too. Mitt’s sole argument seems to be “I’m the most electable” more than anything.

Perry can prove that he’ll carry Texas. So? Texas isn’t in doubt in any election that might possibly tip to the Republicans.

Were Romney to carry Massachusetts, though, that would be a swing.

From the point of view of trying to win the presidency, the GOP needs a more centrist candidate. Obama isn’t Carter. He cannot be relied upon to lose against any old Republican.

And, dare I say it? Perry isn’t even Bush, much less Reagan.

445 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 8:38:23pm

re: #443 makeitstop

I thought Whitesnake was the poor man’s Whitesnake! :)

Ha, I thought the same thing right after I wrote that.

446 BeenHereAwhile  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 8:43:10pm

re: #75 b_sharp

Austin needs to import some wolfs to keep the coyotes at bay.

No, wolves arn’t necessary to keep coyotes at bay.

Sheep and cattle ranchers know all you need is some burros. They will literally kick the sh*t out of coyotes.

If you ever drive by a pasture and see burros grazing among sheep or cattle; the burros are there to protect the other livestock.

447 BeenHereAwhile  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 9:02:06pm

re: #97 Summer

In the end, Bush was not the fanatic that people accused him of being. I didn’t agree with many things about Bush, but I would rather have him heading the GOP today than the completely insane fanatics that are currently in the top of the ranks.

In fact, they regard Bush as a traitor to their cause because he never acted out on all of the insane crap that they wanted him to legislate for them.

W. Bush allowed Cheney to high jack his presidency for the first 8 or years of his two terms in office. It wasn’t until the last two years or so that Cheney was relegated into a lesser role.

448 BeenHereAwhile  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 9:11:02pm

re: #102 ralphieboy

A literal interpretation of the Bible makes it impossible to accept Evolution. But even the Pope sees no inherent contradiction between Creation and Evolution.

I’m OK with someone who believes in a literal interpretation of the bible. If their beliefs are based upon a literal translation of the bible.

449 BeenHereAwhile  Mon, Aug 15, 2011 9:38:36pm

re: #161 Rightwingconspirator

Tech question
Has anyone here had to resort to a liquid cooling gadget for their PC? I’m getting overheat warnings on my I7, with fans maxed out.

We use a Corsair Hydro Cool 70 unit on our i7 data cruncher.
The case has enough fans to enable it to hover, but after installing the hydro cool; when the CPU is really honking, the processor temperature doesn’t rise above 45C.

450 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 2:57:30am

re: #203 ralphieboy

It is a problem with a lack of basic education: what science is and isn’t. And what religion is and isn’t.

Religion is about why the world was created. Science is about how.

Creationism is about not knowing the difference.

Not exactly true.

[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com…]
[Link: www.bigquestionsonline.com…]
[Link: plato.stanford.edu…]

451 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Aug 16, 2011 3:00:45am

re: #450 000G

Not exactly true.

[Link: blogs.discovermagazine.com…]
[Link: www.bigquestionsonline.com…]
[Link: plato.stanford.edu…]

Gruenbaum gets an autoupding.


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