Rick Perry: Scientists Are Lying About Climate Change to Make Money

The new general in the right wing’s total war on science
Wingnuts • Views: 28,020

It’s pathetic and sad (not to mention insane) that the default conservative position on the science of global warming is total denial of reality. But Texas Governor Rick Perry’s taking the right wing anti-science meme even farther.

Today in New Hampshire, Perry not only denied the existence of climate change, he also accused scientists of perpetrating a hoax to make money.

“A substantial number of scientists [have] manipulated data to keep the money rolling in,” New Hampshire Union Leader editorial page editor Drew Cline quoted Perry saying on the stump in a tweet.

Because we’ve all seen those fat cat climate scientists on their yachts, lighting cigars with $100 bills.

And in a classic case of moronic wingnut cognitive dissonance:

Before that, Cline quoted Perry saying, “I do believe the issue of global warming has been politicized.”

Ya think?

UPDATE at 8/17/11 10:37:30 am

Here’s video of Perry’s exact quote:

Youtube Video

Jump to bottom

265 comments
1 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:18:11am

Meanwhile, all those poor, downtrodden oil companies have been desperate to find the money to fund their own "studies" to "prove" that climate change is a "hoax." *rolls eyes*

2 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:20:00am

Lol that pic of him is a keeper. Should be juxtaposed with that one of the Shriekmonger.

3 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:20:36am

And the les frères Koch, BP and Exxon are all impoverishing themselves for Teh Troof!
//

4 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:23:03am

Scientists Are Lying About Climate Change to Make Money

perry is lying about scientists to get votes

5 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:23:13am

Meanwhile, in the real world...

There are dozens of credible atmospheric scientists in Texas at institutions like Rice, UT, and Texas A&M, and I can confidently say that none agree with Gov. Perry’s views on the science of climate change. This is a particularly unfortunate situation given the hellish drought that Texas is now experiencing, and which climate change is almost certainly making worse.

What, you mean Rick Perry's "Pray for rain" proclamation wasn't mega-super effective? 9_9

6 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:24:15am

re: #4 engineer dog

Scientists Are Lying About Climate Change to Make Money

perry is lying about scientists just about everything to get votes

FTFY

7 garhighway  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:24:24am

re: #1 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Meanwhile, all those poor, downtrodden oil companies have been desperate to find the money to fund their own "studies" to "prove" that climate change is a "hoax." *rolls eyes*

We're seeing the resurrection of the Tobacco Institute.

8 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:26:21am

re: #5 publicityStunted

Meanwhile, in the real world...

What, you mean Rick Perry's "Pray for rain" proclamation wasn't mega-super effective? 9_9

Sad thing is, I'm sure more than a few of his followers, watching as their lawns turn various shades of brown, their skies fill with smoke from one wildfire or another, and look forward to another week of dry weather, tell themselves "Hey, we've always had dry spells! This isn't anything to get worked up over!"

9 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:26:25am

Wow. Filthy rich scientists---class warfare, anyone? He's a regl'r Marxist, ain't he.

10 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:26:42am

re: #7 garhighway

We're seeing the resurrection of the Tobacco Institute.

The exact same people who tried to deny and cover up for Big Tobacco are now shilling for Big Energy.

11 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:27:15am

re: #2 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol that pic of him is a keeper. Should be juxtaposed with that one of the Shriekmonger.

Then there's this one.

The first comment with it at Flickr:

Speaking of hard to swallow, here's hoping America has an appropriate gag reflex regarding the regressive agenda of the entire GOP field. They are a batch of toxic corndogs.

Emphasis added, because lol.

12 Iwouldprefernotto  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:27:23am

I thought making money was a good thing?

13 Alexzander  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:28:45am

What kind of socialist anti-capitalist hellhole is this site?
//

14 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:29:31am

re: #12 Iwouldprefernotto

I thought making money was a good thing?

Yeah, but Perry is willing to lie for free, so he wants to put it out to bid.

15 Alexzander  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:31:06am

re: #14 wrenchwench

Yeah, but Perry is willing to lie for free, so he wants to put it out to bid.

Truthfulness, honesty and the pursuit of equality aren't measures of your spiritual status, its how big your bank account is!

16 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:31:21am

re: #12 Iwouldprefernotto

I thought making money was a good thing?

Only if in pursuit of Real American® activities Supply-Side Jesus approves of.

17 Alexzander  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:31:36am

What are the wingnut tags again?

18 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:32:46am

re: #12 Iwouldprefernotto

I thought making money was a good thing?

It is, so long as it doesn't endanger the money-making of the companies bankrolling Perry.

19 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:39:20am

re: #17 Alexzander

What are the wingnut tags again?

[ wingnut] [/wingnut], no spaces.

Nobody pays taxes but MEEEEEE!!!

That the one you mean? lol

20 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:39:33am

Just added video above...

21 Atlas Fails  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:41:35am

From Wikipedia:

Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.

22 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:41:46am

re: #20 Charles

Just added video above...

Is it me or is his Texas accent a little less pronounced today?

I guess he can dial it back depending upon where he's speaking.

23 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:43:51am

If you want to really know about Governor Perry look up Cameron Todd Whillingham. Whillingham was executed for having been convicted of starting a fire in his house that killed his own children. After conviction but before execution, information was brought forth that placed significant doubts on the original arson investigation. Governor Perry was aware of this counter evidence but still approved the execution. After Whillingham was executed. The Texas Forensic Science Commission investigated but two days before it could report Perry replaced the Commission Chair person which effectively delayed the investigation until after the 2010 election.

Also, if you are interested on an interesting viewpoint of Governor Perry, you might want to friend Bill White on Facebook. Bill ran against Perry in that 2010 Governorship race.

24 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:44:01am

re: #22 makeitstop

Is it me or is his Texas accent a little less pronounced today?

I guess he can dial it back depending upon where he's speaking.

Most people can. I can get a bit of a drawl sometimes, but I can also speak without any noticeable Texas affectations at all. About the only thing that really gives me away is dropping the word "y'all" in conversation.

25 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:45:16am

re: #23 Big Steve

If you want to really know about Governor Perry look up Cameron Todd Whillingham. Whillingham was executed for having been convicted of starting a fire in his house that killed his own children. After conviction but before execution, information was brought forth that placed significant doubts on the original arson investigation. Governor Perry was aware of this counter evidence but still approved the execution. After Whillingham was executed. The Texas Forensic Science Commission investigated but two days before it could report Perry replaced the Commission Chair person which effectively delayed the investigation until after the 2010 election.

Also, if you are interested on an interesting viewpoint of Governor Perry, you might want to friend Bill White on Facebook. Bill ran against Perry in that 2010 Governorship race.

Was it just that Perry wanted to show he was "tough on crime" or did he just not care?

26 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:45:42am

re: #5 publicityStunted

Meanwhile, in the real world...

What, you mean Rick Perry's "Pray for rain" proclamation wasn't mega-super effective? 9_9

begin{Perry emulation module}

That's because scientists at Texas universities are godless atheists who won't pray for rain.

Saying that the climate is changing and we're causing it amounts to treason.

end{Perry emulation module}

Seriously, what is this about praying for rain? It can't possibly avail. If the Bible is to be taken literally, then the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike. If it's not, or if it's just a book, then prayer isn't going to control the weather.

Perry's problem is that he's got to say something about the drought. We're getting hammered. There's nothing we can do, near term, but in the long run, we need to build more wind power etc.

Texas, small thanks to the current gov, does have a very respectable mass of wind power already installed. A regulatory climate that allows transmission lines to be built without too much red tape has helped. And then there's the physics of the thing. We do have wind.

Hell, we've even got windbags.

But they should stand in front of the turbines to blow their hot air, rather than try for president.

27 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:46:12am

re: #24 Lidane

Most people can. I can get a bit of a drawl sometimes, but I can also speak without any noticeable Texas affectations at all. About the only thing that really gives me away is dropping the word "y'all" in conversation.

I'm only mentioning it because he seemed to have it cranked full on in Iowa the other day. :)

28 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:47:26am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Was it just that Perry wanted to show he was "tough on crime" or did he just not care?

I see no substantive difference between the two.

If it was done for political expediency, it's obvious he didn't care.

29 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:47:56am

Christie Reportedly Mulling Bid

Jonathan Alter says that New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) is conducting focus groups in preparation for a possible Republican presidential bid in 2012.

[Link: politicalwire.com...]

30 albusteve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:48:16am

Perry is a textbook lunatic...I think he wants the presidency so bad that he will misjudge the voters and somehow self destruct...poof!

31 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:48:29am

re: #24 Lidane

Most people can. I can get a bit of a drawl sometimes, but I can also speak without any noticeable Texas affectations at all. About the only thing that really gives me away is dropping the word "y'all" in conversation.

I did a project a few years ago in Brazil. Our plant there sold directly to a lumber mill on adjacent property. The lumber mill had a manager from Texas. Our Brazilian plant manager, knowing I lived in Texas, asked me to teach him some "Texan" so he could appear friendly to his customer plant manager. I told him that the next time the Lumber mill manager asked him to do something, tell him you are "fixin to". A few weeks later I got an email from our plant manager saying he had done so and his lumber mill cohort laughed for five minutes.

32 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:48:43am

re: #29 zora

Christie Reportedly Mulling Bid

[Link: politicalwire.com...]

That should be interesting. And it would give Crazy Pam something to do because of Christie calling out the anti-Muslim freaks.

33 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:49:29am

re: #30 albusteve

Perry is a textbook lunatic...I think he wants the presidency so bad that he will misjudge the voters and somehow self destruct...poof!

I sure hope you're right. I could see it happening. I can also see lots of people falling for his b.s.

34 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:49:44am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Was it just that Perry wanted to show he was "tough on crime" or did he just not care?

The former is my guess.

35 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:49:47am

re: #29 zora

Christie Reportedly Mulling Bid

[Link: politicalwire.com...]

Every Republican above dogcatcher has got to be thinking, "I can beat all of these clowns."

36 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:50:46am

re: #29 zora

Christie Reportedly Mulling Bid

[Link: politicalwire.com...]

TPM says the Christie camp has denied this.

37 theheat  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:51:04am

Co-op huntin' overalls fixin' hardware, yonder clan reckon round-up diesel guzzled horse. Me if him simple tornado y'all if.


Perry Translation: "I do believe the issue of global warming has been politicized."


Throwed her good plumb horse had jiggly good hardware mule trailer preacher poor down foreclose. Pot come, landlord fell em than. Dumb beat over shootin' jehosephat tractor havin' spittin' stumped soap.


Perry translation: "A substantial number of scientists [have] manipulated data to keep the money rolling in."

Anymore, whenever one of these filthy lying chicken fried bible thumping idiots speaks, all I hear is Hillbilly Lorem Ipsum.

Curious Lurker found a good Yosemite Sam clip, also. Same difference.

38 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:51:30am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

[Link: www.salon.com...]

"It takes balls to execute an innocent man"
Did a questionable execution actually help Rick Perry's political career?

39 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:52:34am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Was it just that Perry wanted to show he was "tough on crime" or did he just not care?

Both. He didn't give a damn and it actually made his supporters cheer him on, because he "had the balls" to knowingly execute an innocent man.

That's the main contrast between him and Bush. When Bush was actually presented with potential evidence, like DNA, that might call an execution into question, he offered a reprieve to have the tests run. The tests showed that the person was still guilty, but at least Bush had the sense to take a step back and let the evidence be tested at all.

40 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:52:56am

I thought God approved of people making money?

Oh, you have to be the right sort of people. Got it.
/

41 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:53:12am

re: #36 makeitstop

the republicans are desperate to get someone viable in the race. even paul ryan.

42 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:53:35am

Anyone want to see a really creepy picture of Rick Perry? [Link: www.nationaljournal.com...]

43 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:53:47am

Given the extreme droughts in Texas for the past: killer droughts and record heat in 1996 and 1998 and the droughts in 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 with 2011 being the worst, one would expect Texans to be able to look out the window and understand that something is afoot. The drying of the south, central US has long been predicted and this is not a fluctuation in weather, but rather an obvious trend to all but the most delusional.

Let's look at the current temps for Texas at 8 degrees F above the baseline:

[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]

You can also look at precipitation levels as well.

Do you think this will affect crops and damage the economy of Texas?

Of course the effects are not just there. Over heated ground stresses water mains - as does the increased pressure from increased demand in overheated urban centers. The result on an aging infrastructure is collapse of the waterworks.

This is a MSM piece, but it makes a clear point that any child can understand. Old pipes under thermal stress and increased pressure break:

700 water main breaks in Houston — a day

[Link: today.msnbc.msn.com...]

Science will not be wished away by the fantasies of right wing prayer or denial.

In the near future, I shall make a page focusing on the damage that has already been done by climate change to the state of Texas. I will also touch on the effects of new insect migrations and other health issues as well as the inevitable rise of immigration from Mexico as their eco system crashes.

Perry could look out the window... So could all of his rabid supporters in Texas, but that would require being able to see the world as it is. Religious fanatics are not capable of that.

44 dragonfire1981  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:54:36am

Think about it folks. According to polls, Perry is practically a lock on the GOP ticket next year either as the Presidential nominee or as Mitt Romney's running mate.

45 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:54:58am

re: #37 theheat

Co-op huntin' overalls fixin' hardware, yonder clan reckon round-up diesel guzzled horse. Me if him simple tornado y'all if.


Throwed her good plumb horse had jiggly good hardware mule trailer preacher poor down foreclose. Pot come, landlord fell em than. Dumb beat over shootin' jehosephat tractor havin' spittin' stumped soap.

Haha

46 theheat  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:55:32am

re: #43 LudwigVanQuixote

Nice to see you, LVQ!

47 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:56:36am

Please somebody anybody demand proof on and scientist getting anything but normal grant or R&D money to deny any climate science. Is there even one? Nope.

Allegations made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Evidence about energy companies and politicians can be found here with the proof of money given.

And here.

And here.

And here.

48 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:57:04am

re: #46 theheat

Nice to see you, LVQ!

Nice to be here and thanks... but alas, just a drive by posting. I have to get back to the lab and finish a journal paper before COB. I will post more in the near future.

49 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:57:14am

re: #43 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ....where ya been?

50 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:57:31am

re: #47 Rightwingconspirator

Please somebody anybody demand proof on and scientist getting anything but normal grant or R&D money to deny any climate science. Is there even one? Nope.

Allegations made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Evidence about energy companies and politicians can be found here with the proof of money given.

And here.

And here.

And here.

Excellent post.

51 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:57:43am

re: #41 zora

the republicans are desperate to get someone viable in the race. even paul ryan.

Yeah, but even the ones they see as 'viable' are deeply flawed candidates. Christie would start grating on people's nerves before he even finished his announcement, and Paul Ryan would be Pawlenty II - the man is dead boring.

These guys only seem 'viable' because they're comparing them to the lunatic asylum that's already running.

52 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:57:53am

Ok, worktime. BBL.

53 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:58:14am

re: #49 Big Steve

LVQ...where ya been?

In a laboratory trying to help a graduate student make his optics work amongst other things.

54 Alexzander  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:58:51am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

In a laboratory trying to help a graduate student make his optics work amongst other things.

Are you a technician, prof or fellow grad student?

55 Four More Tears  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:58:52am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

In a laboratory trying to help a graduate student make his optics work amongst other things.

Heh. Helping the blind to see, so to speak?

56 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:58:58am

re: #42 Big Steve

Anyone want to see a really creepy picture of Rick Perry? [Link: www.nationaljournal.com...]

That shot of him in the uniform is missing something.
/not going Godwin today

57 garhighway  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:59:50am

re: #35 wrenchwench

Every Republican above dogcatcher has got to be thinking, "I can beat all of these clowns."

Absolutely right.

All over America, middleweight Republican politicians are waking up in the middle of the night, thinking "Why not ME? I'm smarter than THOSE clowns! I can do this!"

This is the time to be a GOP political consultant. Those guys are going to be in the chips from now until the herd thins out next spring.

58 Alexzander  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 10:59:51am

re: #55 JasonA

Heh. Helping the blind to see, so to speak?

He is the Chosen One!

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:00:37am

re: #54 Alexzander

I am a researcher in a research group.

60 SidewaysQuark  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:01:12am

Since it appears now that Bachmann and Perry will split the kook vote, Romney might come out on top....

61 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:01:28am

re: #56 makeitstop

That shot of him in the uniform is missing something.
/not going Godwin today

You mean the one of him in college? I have uncles and cousins who wore the same uniform. It's from the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M.

62 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:01:41am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

In a laboratory trying to help a graduate student make his optics work amongst other things.

Class IV lasers? :)

63 Gus  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:02:00am

Clearly Rick Perry, as a "stealth Jihadist", is siding with the Saudi Arabian petroleum interests and thus astroturfing for the Saudi oil companies against climate change science.

//

64 garhighway  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:02:18am

re: #47 Rightwingconspirator

Please somebody anybody demand proof on and scientist getting anything but normal grant or R&D money to deny any climate science. Is there even one? Nope.

Allegations made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

Evidence about energy companies and politicians can be found here with the proof of money given.

And here.

And here.

And here.

In Conspiracyland, the grant IS the money. According to the wingers, scientists cook their books so they can get another one of those huge NOAA grants.

65 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:02:29am

re: #39 Lidane

Both. He didn't give a damn and it actually made his supporters cheer him on, because he "had the balls" to knowingly execute an innocent man.

That's the main contrast between him and Bush. When Bush was actually presented with potential evidence, like DNA, that might call an execution into question, he offered a reprieve to have the tests run. The tests showed that the person was still guilty, but at least Bush had the sense to take a step back and let the evidence be tested at all.

I can't see any reason to cheer such a person. A deliberate execution of someone who did not commit the crime they are being executed for makes no sense. It doesn't achieve anything worthwhile.

66 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:02:34am

re: #61 Lidane

You mean the one of him in college? I have uncles and cousins who wore the same uniform. It's from the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M.

That's the one. Didn't mean to offend.

67 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:03:02am

re: #62 oaktree

Class IV lasers? :)

No... we use things that are a little bigger.

68 Big Steve  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:03:17am

re: #56 makeitstop

That shot of him in the uniform is missing something.
/not going Godwin today

Dude you are so going to get the Aggie Nation on your ass. That is the normal Texas A&M Cadet uniform and a lot of them do, as did Rick Perry, serve in the military.

69 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:03:59am

re: #68 Big Steve

Dude you are so going to get the Aggie Nation on your ass. That is the normal Texas A&M Cadet uniform and a lot of them do, as did Rick Perry, serve in the military.

Yeah, I realize this now. Apologies to Aggies here and everywhere.

70 allegro  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:04:14am

re: #24 Lidane

Most people can. I can get a bit of a drawl sometimes, but I can also speak without any noticeable Texas affectations at all. About the only thing that really gives me away is dropping the word "y'all" in conversation.

I was about to say the same thing, almost verbatim. LOL

Depending on who I'm talking to (or to whom I am speaking, to be grammatically correct) I can out-Texan the best of 'em, East Texas, West Texas, or North Texas dialect. I don't know how I ever expressed myself before the word "y'all" though.

71 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:04:24am

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

I can't see any reason to cheer such a person. A deliberate execution of someone who did not commit the crime they are being executed for makes no sense. It doesn't achieve anything worthwhile.

It does if you run under the belief that capital punishment is a "deterrent," that the thought that you might be executed is a way of scaring people away from crime.

72 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:04:45am

re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote

Thanks and good to see ya posting, even drive by.

73 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:05:04am

re: #66 makeitstop

That's the one. Didn't mean to offend.

Heh, no offense taken. I call the four years people spend at A&M four years of Republican Camp.

They take everything seriously, especially the Corps. There are even parts of the campus where you can't walk on the grass. And no, I'm not kidding.

74 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:06:03am

re: #61 Lidane

You mean the one of him in college? I have uncles and cousins who wore the same uniform. It's from the Corps of Cadets at Texas A&M.

It's from Animal House.

75 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:06:25am

LVQ are you still here?

76 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:06:45am

re: #71 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It does if you run under the belief that capital punishment is a "deterrent," that the thought that you might be executed is a way of scaring people away from crime.

But killing someone you know did not commit the crime sends the message you have no sense of justice and don't care about the truth. It's a lousy message to send, IMO.

77 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:08:20am

On the lighter side of our imminent global catastrophes, I got my State Food Worker's Card yesterday.

How yall?

78 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:09:07am

re: #75 publicityStunted

LVQ are you still here?

Leaving very shortly... I am sorry. One of my colleagues is out of the country. I promised him I would teach this graduate student some things, and keep him from hurting himself while my colleague was away... and I really have to get this journal paper finished.

79 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:09:55am

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

I can't see any reason to cheer such a person. A deliberate execution of someone who did not commit the crime they are being executed for makes no sense. It doesn't achieve anything worthwhile.

It proves he's tough on crime! Who needs evidence or to listen to appeals? What are you, some kinda commie librul?

///

80 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:10:29am

re: #54 Alexzander

re: #59 LudwigVanQuixote

Which is to say, pure research and no students at the moment.

81 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:10:52am

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

But killing someone you know did not commit the crime sends the message you have no sense of justice and don't care about the truth. It's a lousy message to send, IMO.

It a fair world, yes, you'd be right. But we live in a world where the court of public opinion charges, tries, and convicts faster than any hanging judge of the frontier days. The media prints all the gory details, alongside "expert" opinions, on the front page and sensationalizes the trial for months. If convicted, it gets front page coverage. If acquitted, it shows up on page A14.

82 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:11:53am

re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote

No problem but please check your email some time today - it's about the Canadian artist blacklisted by the Harper Government because of her pro-environment, anti-Tar Sands work - you might know people who can help her out

83 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:12:11am

re: #78 LudwigVanQuixote

Leaving very shortly... I am sorry. One of my colleagues is out of the country. I promised him I would teach this graduate student some things, and keep him from hurting himself while my colleague was away... and I really have to get this journal paper finished.

Well, good luck to you. Glad to see you here.

84 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:13:24am

re: #43 LudwigVanQuixote

Given the extreme droughts in Texas for the past: killer droughts and record heat in 1996 and 1998 and the droughts in 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011 with 2011 being the worst, one would expect Texans to be able to look out the window and understand that something is afoot. The drying of the south, central US has long been predicted and this is not a fluctuation in weather, but rather an obvious trend to all but the most delusional.

Let's look at the current temps for Texas at 8 degrees F above the baseline:

[Link: www.ncdc.noaa.gov...]

You can also look at precipitation levels as well.

Do you think this will affect crops and damage the economy of Texas?

Of course the effects are not just there. Over heated ground stresses water mains - as does the increased pressure from increased demand in overheated urban centers. The result on an aging infrastructure is collapse of the waterworks.

This is a MSM piece, but it makes a clear point that any child can understand. Old pipes under thermal stress and increased pressure break:

700 water main breaks in Houston — a day

[Link: today.msnbc.msn.com...]

Science will not be wished away by the fantasies of right wing prayer or denial.

In the near future, I shall make a page focusing on the damage that has already been done by climate change to the state of Texas. I will also touch on the effects of new insect migrations and other health issues as well as the inevitable rise of immigration from Mexico as their eco system crashes.

Perry could look out the window... So could all of his rabid supporters in Texas, but that would require being able to see the world as it is. Religious fanatics are not capable of that.

In Texas, it's not just the heating that makes the pipes break. Clay soils contract and crack when they dry out, and that is the biggest cause of broken water mains.

As to Mexico, the crash of their ecosystem has probably been a contributing factor to the crash of their social system. It's Mad Max down there, with thousands of drug-war killings every year.

85 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:13:26am

re: #82 publicityStunted

kk...

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

and thanks... I really have to run now.

86 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:13:30am

re: #81 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It a fair world, yes, you'd be right. But we live in a world where the court of public opinion charges, tries, and convicts faster than any hanging judge of the frontier days. The media prints all the gory details, alongside "expert" opinions, on the front page and sensationalizes the trial for months. If convicted, it gets front page coverage. If acquitted, it shows up on page A14.

Yeah, it sucks.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:13:33am

re: #38 zora

[Link: www.salon.com...]

"It takes balls to execute an innocent man"
Did a questionable execution actually help Rick Perry's political career?

That simply shuts my brain down.

88 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:14:32am

re: #84 lostlakehiker

In Texas, it's not just the heating that makes the pipes break. Clay soils contract and crack when they dry out, and that is the biggest cause of broken water mains.

Sooo... do you think that extra heat and lack of rain would make clay soils contract and dry out?

OK now I have to run for real.

89 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:18:04am

re: #64 garhighway

In Conspiracyland, the grant IS the money. According to the wingers, scientists cook their books so they can get another one of those huge NOAA grants.

That would be the same NOAA that is trustworthy enough to save many lives every heavy weather sequence. Who has no interest in a particular conclusion on AGW.
*sigh* (and a middle finger at Perry)

90 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:18:58am

re: #84 lostlakehiker

As to Mexico, the crash of their ecosystem has probably been a contributing factor to the crash of their social system. It's Mad Max down there, with thousands of drug-war killings every year.

Whut?

Their criminal justice system is to blame. Their ecosystem is relatively healthy. Unless you are referring to "lead poisoning", aka, "Plata o plomo".

91 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:18:58am

I stand by my assertion: You know who makes up stuff to get money? Fox News.

92 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:19:19am

re: #62 oaktree

Class IV lasers? :)

And I was joking about a little bigger... that should tell you something about one of my current projects.

93 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:20:56am

re: #92 LudwigVanQuixote

And I was joking about a little bigger... that should tell you something about one of my current projects.

Bigger than Class IV lasers?

94 abbyadams  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:22:53am

Adding, LVQ has addressed this topic more passionately and deftly than I ever could, but this kind of garbage makes me more angrier than anything. Maybe it's because it feeds into the tired old "elitist" meme, the one where only some of the people who live in the U.S. are "Real Americans." I have utter respect for anyone trained in any profession, whether they have a PhD, or a GED - or neither. If you work in your field for a long time, you are the expert - you know the ins and outs of the field, and that's true in astrophysics and custodial engineering (and I have been employed as the latter.)

95 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:23:09am

Sheesh, you people. Are the scientists all you can think about? Can you not feel Romney's pain? How can the Mittster keep up with this stream of gibberish from Perry? ///

96 garhighway  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:24:35am

re: #95 Bulworth

Sheesh, you people. Are the scientists all you can think about? Can you not feel Romney's pain? How can the Mittster keep up with this stream of gibberish from Perry? ///

Good point. Candidates are people, my friend.

97 jaunte  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:25:18am

re: #91 abbyadams

Today on Fox: Canadian armored bus outrage.

98 Charles Johnson  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:25:28am

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

99 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:27:25am

re: #98 Charles

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

A line from Aliens comes to mind:

"You know, Burke, I don't know which species is worse. You don't see them fucking each other over for a goddamn percentage. "

100 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:27:30am

re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote

Sooo... do you think that extra heat and lack of rain would make clay soils contract and dry out?

Heh.

101 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:28:12am

re: #96 garhighway

Good point. Candidates are people, my friend.

Romney was getting pretty close to being able to have the GOP nomination without having to say anything of substance or controversy at all. Now along comes the Crazy.

102 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:28:13am

OT: An imaginary conversation...

Callista: Newtie, I'm bored. Why can't we go on another vacation?

Newt: But honey, I'm running for president! That means I have to campaign.

Callista: But campaigning is boring! And there are always those gay people who get glitter all over my Versace. Can't we at least campaign somewhere nice?

Newt: Well, I guess it wouldn't hurt to stump in Hawaii. Nothing else is working...

Gingrich takes campaign to Democratic stronghold Hawaii

The man is beyond phoning it in at this point.

103 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:29:02am

Granted, thre are millions of dollars of research money at stake, and this might have an influence on sthe schientist...but there are billions or even trillions at stake in the energy industry, and that is the be-all and end-all of their thinking.

104 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:29:03am

re: #73 Lidane

Heh, no offense taken. I call the four years people spend at A&M four years of Republican Camp.

They take everything seriously, especially the Corps. There are even parts of the campus where you can't walk on the grass. And no, I'm not kidding.

The student union is "Memorial student union", after the many Aggies who gave their lives in service to their nation. There's a bit of grass that counts as part of that, and out of respect, people don't walk on it.

The scale of the sacrifice may be estimated by the list of Aggies who have earned the medal of honor:

U.S. Army 1st Lt. Eli Whiteley, Class of 1941, U.S. Marine Corps Sgt. William George Harrell, Class of 1943, U.S. Army Air Corps Maj. Horace S. Carswell, Jr., Class of 1938, U.S. Army Staff Sgt. George D. Keathley, Class of 1937, U.S. Army 1st Lt. Turney W. Leonard, Class of 1942, U.S. Army Air Corps 2nd Lt. Lloyd H. Hughes, Class of 1943, and U.S. Army 2nd Lt. Thomas W. Fowler, Class of 1943

Earning this requires courage in the face of such mortal danger that there is scant chance one will survive the deed, and sure enough, most medals of honor are awarded posthumously.

This doesn't mean that A&M is a climate denial university. The faculty know better and say so. ABC News report

Extract:

Dr. Andrew Dessler, a professor of atmospheric sciences at Texas A&M University, emailed TP Green, that while Gov. Perry may deny climate science:
[begin quote within quote]
There are dozens of credible atmospheric scientists in Texas at institutions like Rice, UT, and Texas A&M, and I can confidently say that none agree with Gov. Perry’s views on the science of climate change. This is a particularly unfortunate situation given the hellish drought that Texas is now experiencing, and which climate change is almost certainly making worse.[end quote within quote]
105 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:29:36am

re: #102 makeitstop

OT: An imaginary conversation...


Gingrich takes campaign to Democratic stronghold Hawaii

The man is beyond phoning it in at this point.

Maybe he's looking for that birth certificate....

//

106 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:29:50am

re: #104 lostlakehiker

I grew up in an Aggie family. I don't need the history lesson, thanks.

107 allegro  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:30:18am

re: #98 Charles

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

I see it as being

homicidally

reckless. They can kill themselves if they feel the need. I resent them taking the rest of us with them.

108 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:30:38am

re: #101 Bulworth

Romney was getting pretty close to being able to have the GOP nomination without having to say anything of substance or controversy at all. Now along comes the Crazy.

The only thing Mitt had to do was stand there and look less crazy than the rest of them. Now his plans are shot to hell.

109 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:30:58am

re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote

In Texas, it's not just the heating that makes the pipes break. Clay soils contract and crack when they dry out, and that is the biggest cause of broken water mains.

Sooo... do you think that extra heat and lack of rain would make clay soils contract and dry out?

OK now I have to run for real.

Of course. That's my point. But the heat itself wouldn't have the same potency in sandy soils.

110 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:32:29am

re: #103 ralphieboy

Granted, thre are millions of dollars of research money at stake, and this might have an influence on sthe schientist...but there are billions or even trillions at stake in the energy industry, and that is the be-all and end-all of their thinking.

And that's really what it is. Politicians who can only see the dollars coming into their campaigns from energy companies, with the note attached saying "Climate change is a hoax, cap & trade is bad for business." And they, in turn, scare voters by telling them that if they don't take climate change as a hoax, then it's gonna mean higher energy costs, which means more money out of their pockets. So join in believing it's all a hoax, if only to keep running you car on "cheap" dino juice and heating your home with "clean" natural gas. Because if God wanted the world to warm, he'd let us know ahead of time. *rollseyes*

111 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:33:00am

re: #105 Bulworth

Maybe he's looking for that birth certificate...

//

Yeah, probably meeting up with Trump's 'guy.'
/

112 Winny Spencer  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:33:28am

Pam is still not a fan:

Yes, Rick Perry is the 5th column candidate
(World Nut Daily)

113 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:33:37am

re: #98 Charles

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

Conservative white men don't give a shit.

114 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:33:42am

The amazing thing is, even with crazy Perry in the race, some conservatives are still not satisfied. Some of them still want NJ Blue Chris Christie to run or Paul Ryan.

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:34:04am

re: #98 Charles

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

With the lives of our children and the continued existence of America in a form we would recognize.

The avalanche has started... it is almost too late for the pebbles to vote. We have already pulled the trigger on much of the American South West and particularly Nevada. Nothing short of a miracle will prevent large regions of America from becoming completely unsustainable in coming decades. However, it is not too late to save the rest of the nation from a collapse, unless of course, the GOP types delay any meaningful action for another few decades. Few in America care at all about what this does to other nations... Perhaps because those people are poor and not here or not white is the issue, but the cause of the ignorance and callousness is less important than the deaths, wars, famines, droughts and plagues this will bring them.

In a very real sense, the GOP science denial machine from the GOP political crop, to Fox, to the Koch brothers behind it, are actively committing the largest mass murder in human history.

There are no words to express the magnitude of the crime.

116 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:34:45am

re: #98 Charles

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

God won't let anything happen to Earth, no need for pinko envyentorolism!!

117 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:35:12am

re: #110 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And the foolishness, the utter foolishness that even if AGW wasn't occurring, we'd still have a thousand and one reasons to get off oil, chief among them that it will run out. And until it runs out, countries that supply it will be economically advantaged. And that means a large number of states that hate the US.

118 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:35:26am

re: #114 Bulworth

The amazing thing is, even with crazy Perry in the race, some conservatives are still not satisfied. Some of them still want NJ Blue Chris Christie to run or Paul Ryan.

There's no one candidate who will make everybody happy, and the Tea Party's going to find that out as this goes on. The ideal candidate, who is everything to everyone, simply doesn't exist. And any candidate who tries to be one is doing more damage to his campaign than good.

119 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:35:37am

re: #112 Winny Spencer

Pam is still not a fan:

Yes, Rick Perry is the 5th column candidate
(World Nut Daily)

In the comments, "Hail, Hail Threedonia" replies: Fifth columnist? Where are the Cocoa Puff

120 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:35:48am

re: #114 Bulworth

The amazing thing is, even with crazy Perry in the race, some conservatives are still not satisfied. Some of them still want NJ Blue Chris Christie to run or Paul Ryan.

Christie would give the right wing fits because he had the gall to nominate a Muslim judge.

Also, watching Paul Ryan try to run would be hilarious. Just sayin'.

121 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:35:48am

re: #98 Charles

You know, the kind of crap you see Perry spouting is one of the biggest reasons why I had to make such a public break with the "conservative" movement. To spread this insidious lie that we don't need to be concerned about climate change really does border on criminal behavior at this point. We're in the last years of actually being able to do something about this critical issue, and the Republican Party is being suicidally reckless.

Considering that they actually have a strong chance at winning, I think it's best to already start preparing for the worst.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:36:22am

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

In the comments, "Hail, Hail Threedonia" replies: Fifth columnist? Where are the Cocoa Puffs?

PIMF

123 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:36:43am

re: #114 Bulworth

The amazing thing is, even with crazy Perry in the race, some conservatives are still not satisfied. Some of them still want NJ Blue Chris Christie to run or Paul Ryan.

They're looking down the road to the convention and general campaign, and they're starting to realize that their lineup is completely bush-league (no pun intended).

Any Republican who hasn't gone completely insane is looking at the current crop of wannabes and is feeling a knot in their stomach.

124 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:37:01am

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

Those who know the truth are indeed committing a crime, at least on a moral level. Those who are ignorant, well, they're speaking with authority while ignorant, which is also a pretty fucking assholic thing.

There's not really any good excuses left for the GOP on why they're ignorant and/or manipulative on the subject.

125 garhighway  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:37:28am

re: #101 Bulworth

Romney was getting pretty close to being able to have the GOP nomination without having to say anything of substance or controversy at all. Now along comes the Crazy.

Tactically, being the one sane guy in a field of crazies is a good place to be, even in this cycle. The crazies will chop each other up, competing ever more frenetically to out-crazy each other. Even if 2/3 of the GOP primary voters are crazy, that will give Mitt 1/3 of the vote in the early primaries and polls, and that gets him through the first few rounds.

But then some crazies drop out (if you aren't Perry or Ron Paul, it is hard to raise money if you're nuts) and there is less competition for the crazy 2/3 of the GOP primary electorate. That is when it gets interesting. By then, either some of the crazy voters have started to care about elect-ability and start leaning towards Mitt, or they still don't care and they pile on the remaining nutball candidates. If the latter happens, that's when Mitt bites it.

All of which explains why Mitt's worst nightmare is Chris Christie. He'd split the non-crazy vote.

126 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:37:36am

re: #118 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The ideal candidate, who is everything to everyone, simply doesn't exist.

Generic Republican!
/

127 Alexzander  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:38:27am

I just saw this comment on Reddit, in response to the fact that Rick Perry refused Cameron Todd Winllingham a stay of execution in 2004. Turned out Willingham was innocent.

"We want government out of people's lives!"*
*with the exceptions of the right to kill you, tell you what to do with your body, and who you can marry....and by "people" we mean corporations.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:38:54am

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

PIMF

Also, someone clearly pointed out to Pam that accusing the Aga Khan of being a terrorist is kind of stupid, because she's been forced to go from 'The Ismailis were the hashishiyya!!!!!!111!!' to finding connections between Aga Khan charities and the Syrian government, which sounds moderately less batshit.

129 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:39:20am

re: #117 Obdicut

And the foolishness, the utter foolishness that even if AGW wasn't occurring, we'd still have a thousand and one reasons to get off oil, chief among them that it will run out. And until it runs out, countries that supply it will be economically advantaged. And that means a large number of states that hate the US.

The loons have convinced themselves that America's sitting on more oil than anybody else, enough to stay self-sufficient indefinitely, which can be pumped on the cheap. How? They don't know, but they're sure that if we just put more money into Big Oil, it'll happen.

130 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:39:29am

re: #107 allegro

a sizable portion of the republican base think we are living in "the last days". these aren't the people we need making decisions for the future of our country.

131 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:40:09am

re: #129 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I've even seen the abiotic nonsense start cropping up more and more frequently, despite the complete lack of any evidence for the theory and it's highly suspect sources.

132 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:40:30am

re: #119 SanFranciscoZionist

In the comments, "Hail, Hail Threedonia" replies: Fifth columnist? Where are the Cocoa Puff

That one does indeed seem too much even for wingnuts. Well, if Perry running leads to Pam Geller finally being labeled as the nutcase she is then he'll have done one good thing, even if it was by accident.

133 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:40:48am

"Harry's Place" is inviting suggestions from whackos for a "solution" to the "Muslim Demographic threat" facing Europe. I hope that it's just "satire" but I don't know if the commenters over there are actually taking it seriously.

134 ProBosniaLiberal  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:40:57am

re: #128 SanFranciscoZionist

What is Aga Khan's attitude toward Syria?

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:41:11am

And poor Mansur Dhanani from Karachi University simply comments: Pamela hasn't got her facts right.

I find, with some interest, that the sane commenters at WND about equal the nuts.

136 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:42:09am

re: #133 Alouette

I hope that it's just "satire" but I don't know if the commenters over there are actually taking it seriously.

At this point, just assume the latter.

137 garhighway  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:43:12am

Wouldn't it be great fun if enough crazy GOP candidates stuck it out through the primary season and split up the primary results to the point where the convention would have to pick the candidate? Can you imagine? An actual, honest-to-God open convention? With THOSE candidates?

It would be epic.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:43:34am

re: #134 ProLifeLiberal

What is Aga Khan's attitude toward Syria?

No idea. According to Pam, who may or may not have a grain of salt here, his economic development NGO sank a lot of money some years ago into microfinance in Syria, with the permission of the government.

My guess would be that his attitude toward Syria is that he wants more Shia to make a living wage and be able to send their children to school.

139 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:44:55am

re: #131 Obdicut

I've even seen the abiotic nonsense start cropping up more and more frequently, despite the complete lack of any evidence for the theory and it's highly suspect sources.

The argument I'm seeing more and more is the whole "fracking will make old fields viable again!" You know, the idea that speeding up the pollution of our drinking water supply trying to scrape out the last dregs of oil from wells deemed "dry" year or even decades ago is the way forward for America.

Then, of course, there's the crazies who've bought into the hype and think the way forward is natural gas, even suggesting that the next big thing will be cars running on CNG.

140 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:46:00am

re: #133 Alouette

"Harry's Place" is inviting suggestions from whackos for a "solution" to the "Muslim Demographic threat" facing Europe. I hope that it's just "satire" but I don't know if the commenters over there are actually taking it seriously.

I still love their new headline graphic:

Image: photo.jpg

141 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:47:37am

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

No idea. According to Pam, who may or may not have a grain of salt here, his economic development NGO sank a lot of money some years ago into microfinance in Syria, with the permission of the government.

My guess would be that his attitude toward Syria is that he wants more Shia to make a living wage and be able to send their children to school.

It would be safe to assume that nobody can start any kind of venture there without "permission from the governmnet."

142 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:48:07am

re: #133 Alouette

"Harry's Place" is inviting suggestions from whackos for a "solution" to the "Muslim Demographic threat" facing Europe. I hope that it's just "satire" but I don't know if the commenters over there are actually taking it seriously.

By the way, I think it is a way to get the "there is a muslim problem" believers to admit that all prescriptions they could come up with as "solutions" are ludicrous at best and very ugly at worst. Reductio ad genocidam, if you will.

143 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:48:37am

re: #133 Alouette

The very first comment: "d) Ban Halal (and Kosher) slaughter." and "j) Make is a crime to indoctrinate a child into a religion.:"

Congrats, Alouette, you'd be a criminal!

144 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:48:59am

Obama eats ice cream. Outrage ensues....
Obama Treats Himself

145 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:49:44am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Can't wait for the Obama corn dog shot. Equal time!

146 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:51:03am

re: #143 Obdicut

The very first comment: "d) Ban Halal (and Kosher) slaughter." and "j) Make is a crime to indoctrinate a child into a religion.:"

Congrats, Alouette, you'd be a criminal!

The "Alouette" demographic threat is far more fearful than the Muslims.

147 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:51:05am

re: #135 SanFranciscoZionist

And poor Mansur Dhanani from Karachi University simply comments: Pamela hasn't got her facts right.

I find, with some interest, that the sane commenters at WND about equal the nuts.

Well, some of those commenting are still nuts, just not about this. It's like how Fred Phelps has an intense hate of almost everything in America, but still points out that the KKK's racism is a crock.

148 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:51:44am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Obama eats ice cream. Outrage ensues...
Obama Treats Himself

Man, they can't even let the guy enjoy the smallest of pleasures.

149 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:51:52am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Obama eats ice cream. Outrage ensues...
Obama Treats Himself

...what is it with politicians with their mouths wrapped around tasty things

/

150 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:52:20am

re: #145 000G

Can't wait for the Obama corn dog shot. Equal time!

Republicans : corn dogs :: Democrats : ice cream

/for all you that took the SATs

151 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:53:20am

re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote

In a laboratory trying to help a graduate student make his optics work amongst other things.

Great. I just got a mental image of you playing the part of Professor Jerry Hathaway to some poor Chris Knight.

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:53:29am

re: #145 000G

Can't wait for the Obama corn dog shot. Equal time!

Image: wpid-obama-eating-hotdog-2011-08-14-11-23.jpg

153 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:53:44am

re: #148 makeitstop

Man, they can't even let the guy enjoy the smallest of pleasures.

New GOP Strategy Involves Reelecting Obama, Making His Life Even More Miserable

154 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:57:10am

re: #144 Killgore Trout

how is eating ice cream going to create jobs?

156 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:58:40am

re: #154 zora

how is eating ice cream going to create jobs?

Increase ice cream sales!

Whereas eating a corn dog is not going to increase sales of corn or dogs.

157 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:59:04am

BBL

158 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:59:42am

re: #142 000G

By the way, I think it is a way to get the "there is a muslim problem" believers to admit that all prescriptions they could come up with as "solutions" are ludicrous at best and very ugly at worst. Reductio ad genocidam, if you will.

I think those guys posting over there are deadly serious, and the unbelievable crap they are willing to come up with just horrifies me.

I'm particularly interested in the guy who appears to be willing to essentially outlaw most forms of religious expression just to get the Muslims to go away--like they do in France, you know?

Also, the pathetic fool who insists that raising the age for brides brought from the old country to 25 will do the trick, 'because those girls would be considered old maids at home, and they're 16 years older than the Prophet's wife (we know which wife he's referring to, the only one they know about), knocks ten years off the reproductive life, blah blah.."

I checked Wiki for mean age of first marriage in various countries:

Pakistan: 26.3 for men, 21.6 for women.
Egypt: 25.9 for men, 24.2 for women.
Libya: 32.0 for men, 29.2 for women.
Iraq: 24.5 for men, 22.0 for women
Kuwait: 32.8 for men, 25.0 for women.

You can see how beautifully his plan would work, clearly.

159 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:59:43am

Slightly OT but in keeping with the topic of GOP, energy and delusional thinking

Michelle Bachmann Promises to Bring Gasoline Prices Down Below $2.00 per Gallon

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

160 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:00:25pm

re: #154 zora

how is eating ice cream going to create jobs?

Somebody's got to milk the cow. Someone else makes the ice cream. Another person makes the cone. Then someone scoops it.

See? Jobs!

///

161 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:00:39pm

re: #154 zora

how is eating ice cream going to create jobs?

There's going to be a huge detailing job on the interior of that bus.

Image: 1_DA---World_20110817114715203457-600x400.jpg

162 BongCrodny  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:01:05pm

re: #112 Winny Spencer

Pam is still not a fan:

Yes, Rick Perry is the 5th column candidate
(World Nut Daily)


To quote Dick Tracy:

"The enemy of my enemy is fucking nuts."

163 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:01:30pm

re: #154 zora

how is eating ice cream going to create jobs?

Obama is in the pocket of the Haagen-Dazs-Ben-&-Jerry's-Dairy-Queen megalobby. DURH.

164 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:02:14pm

re: #159 ralphieboy

Slightly OT but in keeping with the topic of GOP, energy and delusional thinking

Michelle Bachmann Promises to Bring Gasoline Prices Down Below $2.00 per Gallon

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

What's she going to do? Pray hard and hope that the oil companies lower their prices? LMAO.

165 Gus  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:02:23pm

re: #163 laZardo

Obama is in the pocket of the Haagen-Dazs-Ben-&-Jerry's-Dairy-Queen megalobby. DURH.

Big Ice Cream

166 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:03:14pm

re: #159 ralphieboy

Slightly OT but in keeping with the topic of GOP, energy and delusional thinking

Michelle Bachmann Promises to Bring Gasoline Prices Down Below $2.00 per Gallon

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

And with that statement, the Koch Brothers will be pouring their campaigh money into the coffers of Rick Perry.

167 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:03:21pm

OT, but funny...
XtraNormal video about SHTF rifle

168 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:03:27pm

re: #158 SanFranciscoZionist

I think those guys posting over there are deadly serious, and the unbelievable crap they are willing to come up with just horrifies me.

I'm particularly interested in the guy who appears to be willing to essentially outlaw most forms of religious expression just to get the Muslims to go away--like they do in France, you know?

Also, the pathetic fool who insists that raising the age for brides brought from the old country to 25 will do the trick, 'because those girls would be considered old maids at home, and they're 16 years older than the Prophet's wife (we know which wife he's referring to, the only one they know about), knocks ten years off the reproductive life, blah blah.."

I checked Wiki for mean age of first marriage in various countries:

Pakistan: 26.3 for men, 21.6 for women.
Egypt: 25.9 for men, 24.2 for women.
Libya: 32.0 for men, 29.2 for women.
Iraq: 24.5 for men, 22.0 for women
Kuwait: 32.8 for men, 25.0 for women.

You can see how beautifully his plan would work, clearly.

The person who posts as M*O*R*G*Y (so not H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N) is just a barrel o'fun on circumcision threads.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:04:33pm

re: #168 Alouette

The person who posts as M*O*R*G*Y (so not H*Y*M*A*N K*A*P*L*A*N) is just a barrel o'fun on circumcision threads.

He seems like a charming person.

/*/*/*/*/*/*

170 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:04:48pm

re: #166 RadicalModerate

And with that statement, the Koch Brothers will be pouring their campaigh money into the coffers of Rick Perry.

Pfft. As if they'd support a woman for POTUS.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:05:33pm

So who DOES Pam like for president? Has she expressed a preference?

172 makeitstop  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:05:38pm

re: #159 ralphieboy

Slightly OT but in keeping with the topic of GOP, energy and delusional thinking

Michelle Bachmann Promises to Bring Gasoline Prices Down Below $2.00 per Gallon

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

The woman is out of her freaking mind.

173 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:06:08pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

So who DOES Pam like for president? Has she expressed a preference?

Zombie McCarthy.

/

174 wrenchwench  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:06:32pm

re: #166 RadicalModerate

And with that statement, the Koch Brothers will be pouring their campaigh money into the coffers of Rick Perry.

Looks more like Romney:

Romney, who has continued fund-raising throughout the country as he campaigns, sent out an e-mail this week alerting supporters to three high-priced events on the Cape and Islands. Billionare Bill Koch, brother of conservative activists David and Charles Koch, is hosting an event at his Osterville home Aug. 14. Romney has an event in Nantucket on the same day.

Oh, wait. Brother to the conservative activists. This one must be just a money source.

175 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:06:41pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

she's panting for palin to enter the race.

176 BongCrodny  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:07:39pm

And now, a Rick Perry haiku:

Governor Perry
Boldly leads us to the past
With great looking hair.


Haikus just look better in italics,

177 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:07:45pm

re: #168 Alouette


Upding for Leo Rosten reference.

178 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:09:27pm

re: #152 Sergey Romanov

Image: wpid-obama-eating-hotdog-2011-08-14-11-23.jpg

Corn dog != hot dog.

By the way: [Link: blog.wfmu.org...]

179 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:09:29pm

Texas prairies thist
As godless science mongers
twist facts for money

180 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:09:30pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

So who DOES Pam like for president? Has she expressed a preference?

Palin. I'm not kidding, either. She posted this the other day:

UPDATE: Jews for Sarah covering it as well. I suspect Palin will get into the race at last not at once. And by the time she does, we will be panting for her. Oh, yes.

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:12:04pm

re: #178 000G

Corn dog != hot dog.

I know.

182 William of Orange  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:12:25pm

Please!! People!! You got to see this bit of Daily Show with Jon Stewart!

Watch him make fun at the platitudes politicians utter when on the road, in particular Rick Perry/Parry.

183 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:12:35pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

So who DOES Pam like for president? Has she expressed a preference?

John Bolton, no?

184 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:13:10pm

re: #181 Sergey Romanov

I know.

The corn weenie gods must be appeased!

Really, really!

185 HappyWarrior  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:13:15pm

I thought making money was a good thing. Oh and Perry, how much do you know about science?

186 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:13:31pm

re: #182 William of Orange

I remember Indecision 2004. I still can't believe he's been going for so long.

Then again, it's not like he's had a shortage of material. ;)

187 BongCrodny  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:14:03pm

re: #159 ralphieboy

Slightly OT but in keeping with the topic of GOP, energy and delusional thinking

Michelle Bachmann Promises to Bring Gasoline Prices Down Below $2.00 per Gallon

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

********

“The day that the president became president gasoline was $1.79 a gallon. Look at what it is today,” the Minnesota congresswoman said at a campaign event in Greenville, S.C. “Under President Bachmann, you will see gasoline come down below $2 a gallon again. That will happen.” The average national gas price is now $3.58 per gallon, according to AAA.

I note that Candidate Bachmann conveniently left out that the price of gas was over $4.00 per gallon six months before Obama took office.

The reason gas was $1.79 a gallon when Obama took office was because the economy was in freefall.

But "IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT" plays so much better to the base.

188 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:15:08pm

re: #186 laZardo

I remember Indecision 2004. I still can't believe he's been going for so long.

Then again, it's not like he's had a shortage of material. ;)

It's almost too easy for his writers: they just have to put up a live quote from someone and then cut to John Stewart with agape with a disbelieving expression...

189 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:15:23pm

Personally, my biggest worry this coming election season is not the GOP primaries, but rather the Congressional elections. A Perry/Romney or Romney/Perry ticket may fail to unseat Obama, but if Congress falls further to the Tea Party hordes, then all we can look forward to is another 4 years of total gridlock. At this point, I'm not sure this nation could go another 4 years without a functioning government without severe consequences.

190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:16:13pm
191 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:16:43pm

Tea Party Leaders Declare All Americans "Too Liberal" For Tea Party

cite widespread support for freedom of speech, right to quit job, immigration from other countries

"until americans give up their greedy desire to punish employers by exacting compulsory compensation for the work that they do for them, and give up on this destructive idea of equality of classes, this nation will remained mired in communistic ideas"

192 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:16:49pm

re: #188 ralphieboy

It's almost too easy for his writers: they just have to put up a live quote from someone and then cut to John Stewart with agape with a disbelieving expression...

LOL

And the Colbert Report is there to give the other writers jobs.

193 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:17:05pm

re: #133 Alouette

"Harry's Place" is inviting suggestions from whackos for a "solution" to the "Muslim Demographic threat" facing Europe. I hope that it's just "satire" but I don't know if the commenters over there are actually taking it seriously.

Lol, the "Eeerie" guy is trying to school you for being ignorant on antisemitism.

194 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:18:00pm

Rick Perry's "Pray for rain" proclamation

pray for brains instead

195 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:18:10pm

re: #187 BongCrodny

***


I note that Candidate Bachmann conveniently left out that the price of gas was over $4.00 per gallon six months before Obama took office.

The reason gas was $1.79 a gallon when Obama took office was because the economy was in freefall.

But "IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT" plays so much better to the base.


If I had money to invest, I would invest it in gasoline price futures: count on gas prices to go up massively over the summer of 2012, peaking at just over $4.00 in late October/early November.

And count on a standard ongoing talking point of how Obama is responsible because he is not doing enough to encourage domestic production and how the GOP will solve all that as soon as they get into power...

196 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:18:30pm

re: #194 engineer dog

Rick Perry's "Pray for rain" proclamation

pray for brains instead

What, is he trying to win over the zombie vote?

/

197 Winny Spencer  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:18:34pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

So who DOES Pam like for president? Has she expressed a preference?

John Bolton, I guess.

198 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:18:39pm

re: #190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is cool.

What disgusts me about Hollywood:

At every meeting I've ever been with with movie people, usually to discuss licensing rights, they've had a gofer in the room. Some bright, hardworking young girl or boy who they send out for the most trivial of errands. Like "I forget this back at my office, go get it" and indeed "Freshen my coffee".

I hate seeing people ordered around like that. It makes me grind my teeth. I'd much rather be the guy that offers to get my guests coffee than the guy who orders someone else to do it.

199 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:19:38pm

re: #159 ralphieboy

Slightly OT but in keeping with the topic of GOP, energy and delusional thinking

Michelle Bachmann Promises to Bring Gasoline Prices Down Below $2.00 per Gallon

[Link: www.newsmax.com...]

The obvious question that has to be asked: Exactly how does she propose to do this? There's only three possible ways (either alone, or in combination) to lower gasoline prices.

1. Huge increases in supply over demand. Not going to happen, at least any time in the near future, as OPEC, and other petroleum producers have a vested interest in keeping a tight rein on the supply side. Outside of some price war overseas, this situation will not change. "Drill baby drill" would have a miniscule effect on prices.

2. Major reduction in demand. The only way this happens is a significant ramp-up of alternative fuels (which wouldn't drive down prices significantly anyway), or replacing a LOT of gasoline-powered vehicles with electrics/hybrids. Given Bachmann's environmental policies, once again, not gonna happen.

3. Price controls. From a GOP member? Yeah. Right.

200 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:19:59pm

re: #190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is cool.

Heh. Chinese fawning over Chinese-American Ambassador for his down-to-earth, one-of-the-folks, egalitarian style. Neat-o.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:20:05pm

re: #193 000G

Lol, the "Eeerie" guy is trying to school you for being ignorant on antisemitism.

LOL. How eerie.

202 Winny Spencer  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:20:15pm

re: #198 Obdicut

Amen to that.

203 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:20:20pm

re: #187 BongCrodny

***


I note that Candidate Bachmann conveniently left out that the price of gas was over $4.00 per gallon six months before Obama took office.

The reason gas was $1.79 a gallon when Obama took office was because the economy was in freefall.

But "IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT" plays so much better to the base.

There you go again, citing facts.

//

204 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:21:05pm

re: #190 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is cool.

He's just prepared for our inevitable submission to the Chicoms! Where do you think the word "kowtowing" comes from!?

/totally calling it

205 Bulworth  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:22:40pm

re: #199 RadicalModerate

The obvious question that has to be asked: Exactly how does she propose to do this? There's only three possible ways (either alone, or in combination) to lower gasoline prices.

1. Huge increases in supply over demand. Not going to happen, at least any time in the near future, as OPEC, and other petroleum producers have a vested interest in keeping a tight rein on the supply side. Outside of some price war overseas, this situation will not change. "Drill baby drill" would have a miniscule effect on prices.

2. Major reduction in demand. The only way this happens is a significant ramp-up of alternative fuels (which wouldn't drive down prices significantly anyway), or replacing a LOT of gasoline-powered vehicles with electrics/hybrids. Given Bachmann's environmental policies, once again, not gonna happen.

3. Price controls. From a GOP member? Yeah. Right.

I assume we'll all be required to pray to the teaparty god. Or else invade Iran.

206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:22:52pm

re: #198 Obdicut

Why do you hate interns?

207 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:23:34pm

re: #204 laZardo

/totally calling it

Obama's dual-loyalty ambassador embarasses US with public display of commie attitudes

Drudge, maybe?

208 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:24:39pm

re: #205 Bulworth

I assume we'll all be required to pray to the teaparty god. Or else invade Iran.

We invade Iran, and expect gas prices to double. Saudi Arabia is VERY friendly with Iran, and would react rather negatively to any invasion.

209 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:25:11pm

re: #199 RadicalModerate

The obvious question that has to be asked: Exactly how does she propose to do this? There's only three possible ways (either alone, or in combination) to lower gasoline prices.

1. Huge increases in supply over demand. Not going to happen, at least any time in the near future, as OPEC, and other petroleum producers have a vested interest in keeping a tight rein on the supply side. Outside of some price war overseas, this situation will not change. "Drill baby drill" would have a miniscule effect on prices.

2. Major reduction in demand. The only way this happens is a significant ramp-up of alternative fuels (which wouldn't drive down prices significantly anyway), or replacing a LOT of gasoline-powered vehicles with electrics/hybrids. Given Bachmann's environmental policies, once again, not gonna happen.

3. Price controls. From a GOP member? Yeah. Right.

Or 4, which is probably what she's thinking, namely slashing or outright abolishing gasoline taxes on the federal level, as well as deregulation aimed at "cutting costs" for refiners. As well as doing away with the EPA, thus ending regulations aimed towards cutting back air pollution and requiring various additives to fuel blends.

Aka the "Slash & Burn" mentality.

210 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:25:54pm

re: #189 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, my biggest worry this coming election season is not the GOP primaries, but rather the Congressional elections. A Perry/Romney or Romney/Perry ticket may fail to unseat Obama, but if Congress falls further to the Tea Party hordes, then all we can look forward to is another 4 years of total gridlock. At this point, I'm not sure this nation could go another 4 years without a functioning government without severe consequences.

That's a big concern. Even if they hold the seats they have now it means further downgrades in our national credit rating, more threats about not raising the debt ceiling, more political and financial instability. Hopefully the voters will get enough of the wingnuts out of congress that we can get something done in this country but I'm not overly hopeful about our future these days.

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:26:42pm

re: #198 Obdicut

What disgusts me about Hollywood:

At every meeting I've ever been with with movie people, usually to discuss licensing rights, they've had a gofer in the room. Some bright, hardworking young girl or boy who they send out for the most trivial of errands. Like "I forget this back at my office, go get it" and indeed "Freshen my coffee".

I hate seeing people ordered around like that. It makes me grind my teeth. I'd much rather be the guy that offers to get my guests coffee than the guy who orders someone else to do it.

I once had a summer job where the visiting 'genius fundraiser' walked up to me out of the blue and without a 'Hi, I'm John the Genius', spit out a long, complicated Starbucks order for himself and his cronies. Literally just rattled it off, no, 'get a notepad, this is long', and then walked away from me. Didn't ask my name, didn't give his, didn't say please.

I suppose a college kid might have been impressed at how important he was. Me, I was thirty, and I had to be restrained by the office manager from giving him a piece of my mind.

212 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:28:41pm

re: #189 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, my biggest worry this coming election season is not the GOP primaries, but rather the Congressional elections. A Perry/Romney or Romney/Perry ticket may fail to unseat Obama, but if Congress falls further to the Tea Party hordes, then all we can look forward to is another 4 years of total gridlock. At this point, I'm not sure this nation could go another 4 years without a functioning government without severe consequences.

My biggest fear is that the teabaggers make gains in Congress AND a sleaze like Perry wins. The LAST thing we need is a Tea Party Congress with a Republican in the White House.

214 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:29:29pm

re: #209 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Or 4, which is probably what she's thinking, namely slashing or outright abolishing gasoline taxes on the federal level, as well as deregulation aimed at "cutting costs" for refiners. As well as doing away with the EPA, thus ending regulations aimed towards cutting back air pollution and requiring various additives to fuel blends.

Aka the "Slash & Burn" mentality.

Current gasoline taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon. State taxes are where the lion's share of taxes on gasoline come from - which is still only between 35-50 cents/gallon total. Fuel additives are a drop in the bucket (less than 3 cents/gallon) on gasoline prices.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

215 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:30:17pm

re: #212 Lidane

My biggest fear is that the teabaggers make gains in Congress AND a sleaze like Perry wins. The LAST thing we need is a Tea Party Congress with a Republican in the White House.

That happens, I'm defecting. I don't know where exactly yet, all I know is that I will not be around for when the ceiling comes crashing down. If the truly gullible of this nation think that putting all their eggs in the basket of the party who daily swears they intend to overturn the basket and stomp on the eggs, then they can deal with the consequences alone.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:31:38pm

re: #215 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

That happens, I'm defecting. I don't know where exactly yet, all I know is that I will not be around for when the ceiling comes crashing down. If the truly gullible of this nation think that putting all their eggs in the basket of the party who daily swears they intend to overturn the basket and stomp on the eggs, then they can deal with the consequences alone.

I don't think it's defecting if they'll let you just walk out the door.

218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:32:00pm

re: #216 SanFranciscoZionist

Now see? That's where you and I are different.

I only read comments here.

Comment threads are icky under news stories.

219 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:32:03pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

I once had a summer job where the visiting 'genius fundraiser' walked up to me out of the blue and without a 'Hi, I'm John the Genius', spit out a long, complicated Starbucks order for himself and his cronies. Literally just rattled it off, no, 'get a notepad, this is long', and then walked away from me. Didn't ask my name, didn't give his, didn't say please.

I suppose a college kid might have been impressed at how important he was. Me, I was thirty, and I had to be restrained by the office manager from giving him a piece of my mind.

I'm 38. If someone did that to me now, I'd just go off and do my own thing, ignore their demand entirely, then act confused when they ask about their coffee.

If you can't be bothered to talk to me or ask me nicely to do it for you, then fuck off. I don't care how important you are.

220 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:33:45pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #219 Lidane

Is that a sexist thing? Would those poobahs order males around in this particular rude way?

221 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:34:33pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

SFZ, "Okay sir. Here you go. Six Burger King Coffees and a bag of cream and sugar. Enjoy. One of the coffees is decaf and one of them has a little extra sumthin' sumthin' in it . I forgot to mark them. Well, with a pen anyway."

222 Interesting Times  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:34:53pm

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I only read comments here.

Comment threads are icky under news stories.

The best visual equivalent I've found so far is this:

...though still not quite as ugly.

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:34:59pm

re: #218 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now see? That's where you and I are different.

I only read comments here.

Comment threads are icky under news stories.

True.

Let's just say I doubt Byron York's motives in running this piece, though.

224 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:35:08pm

re: #214 RadicalModerate

Current gasoline taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon. State taxes are where the lion's share of taxes on gasoline come from - which is still only between 35-50 cents/gallon total. Fuel additives are a drop in the bucket (less than 3 cents/gallon) on gasoline prices.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

It's the "market signals" line of thinking, the one that says "If an utter loon in the White House sells the country to the market, the market will respond by turning America into a paradise." Namely that if a President Bachmann gutted federal taxes and regulation on gasoline, the market would foresee an easing in the restriction on supply and thus drive prices down.

That or she's expecting to spark off WWIII and hope we reduce enough of the rest of the world a burning cinder that they'll have no use for oil, and thus we'll be the only customers.

225 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:35:22pm

re: #219 Lidane

I tend to do the thing that they ask, as expertly as I can, the first time-- to see if the abrupt and self-important demands are matched with exceptional gratitude and recognition. It is rare, but my most fun boss ever was a guy who was an abrupt son of a bitch, including ordering me to work weekends, but was worth it for the scope of his vision and the gratitude he had for me going along with his stuff. Some of the biggest projects on earth have been headed by assholes who were hard to work for.

226 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:36:02pm

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

re: #219 Lidane

Is that a sexist thing? Would those poobahs order males around in this particular rude way?

In Hollywood it definitely isn't. Very equal opportunity browbeating of the young. It's quite Darwinian.

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:36:50pm

re: #226 Obdicut

In Hollywood it definitely isn't. Very equal opportunity browbeating of the young. It's quite Darwinian.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:37:49pm

re: #220 Sergey Romanov

re: #219 Lidane

Is that a sexist thing? Would those poobahs order males around in this particular rude way?

This guy, yes, probably. In fact, I think he might have gotten more of a charge out of being able to do it to another man. And I have had women pull similar shit on me.

I think anyone sitting in the receptionist's chair would have gotten about the same.

Nonprofits are awful for this sort of thing. I've found that in corporate offices, the grand poobah is making a lot of money, and is otherwise having his status reinforced. In nonprofit agencies, a lot of the time, the only way you can be reminded how important you are is to play dominance games.

229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:37:54pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

True.

Let's just say I doubt Byron York's motives in running this piece, though.

Now see? That's where you and I are different.

I don't know who Byron York is.

230 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:39:22pm

re: #222 publicityStunted

GAH!

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:40:05pm

re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now see? That's where you and I are different.

I don't know who Byron York is.

Politicial columnist for the Examiner.

I will say, however, that he actually fact-checks stuff, and such, as opposed to the lady who writes for the Examiner who managed to get all of wingnuttia up in arms one night because Los Zetas had taken Laredo.

232 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:41:09pm

re: #225 Obdicut

I tend to do the thing that they ask, as expertly as I can, the first time-- to see if the abrupt and self-important demands are matched with exceptional gratitude and recognition. It is rare, but my most fun boss ever was a guy who was an abrupt son of a bitch, including ordering me to work weekends, but was worth it for the scope of his vision and the gratitude he had for me going along with his stuff. Some of the biggest projects on earth have been headed by assholes who were hard to work for.

If you assign me a big project to do that you need done yesterday, I'll do it, just to prove I can. My first day in my internship, they put me in charge of a database of all the distribution contracts for the company AND had me doing a ridiculous amount of research for a different project. It's been a flurry of activity since.

Walk up to me and give me a long, complicated Starbucks order and I'm not going to go out of my way unless you ASK. Starbucks involves me leaving the office and spending my own money and time on you. I'm at least owed the courtesy of a conversation and being asked to do it first.

233 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:42:36pm

re: #232 Lidane

Oh, I totally think that you, or I, would be owed that. I was just saying I'd do it the first time for anyone, to see if there was any more to them. Not that I felt like they deserved it or it was in any way not a huge imposition on me.

I think part of this comes from having been a bartender, where you're very often serving people who are acting socially inappropriately. Heh.

234 RadicalModerate  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:42:55pm

re: #224 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's the "market signals" line of thinking, the one that says "If an utter loon in the White House sells the country to the market, the market will respond by turning America into a paradise." Namely that if a President Bachmann gutted federal taxes and regulation on gasoline, the market would foresee an easing in the restriction on supply and thus drive prices down.

Would this "paradise" occur during or after the absolute economic collapse that would be caused by her actions?

That or she's expecting to spark off WWIII and hope we reduce enough of the rest of the world a burning cinder that they'll have no use for oil, and thus we'll be the only customers.

Or better yet, when she and all of the other so-called true Christians are swept into heaven during the rapture (that will be happening ANY DAY NOW!!), there won't be nearly as many people driving cars.

235 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:43:14pm

re: #232 Lidane

spending my own money and time on you

Spending own money for transport or for Starbucks?

236 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:43:20pm

Deal with everyone in corporate America as though they're a loaded guy at at the bar with something to prove, that's my advice.

237 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:44:35pm

re: #236 Obdicut

Deal with everyone in corporate America as though they're a loaded guy at at the bar with something to prove, that's my advice.

Loaded as in money or loaded as in drunk?

238 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:45:16pm

re: #233 Obdicut

I think part of this comes from having been a bartender, where you're very often serving people who are acting socially inappropriately. Heh.

Heh. My boyfriend used to be a bartender. He would ignore anyone who whistled for his attention or called him "Boy" or otherwise acted like an asshole. He'd just tell them he wasn't a dog or a child and if they couldn't be bothered to treat him like an adult, they could wait.

He'd do it, too. He'd serve everyone else then go take a smoke break or something, just to reinforce the point.

239 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:46:06pm

re: #235 Sergey Romanov

Spending own money for transport or for Starbucks?

Either. Both. Gas costs money, and in that situation when you're ordered to get Starbucks, chances are the person doing the ordering isn't going to hand you a $20 to pay for any of it.

240 Political Atheist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:47:12pm

re: #117 Obdicut

One of the scary parts is it's not enough to get the modern world off coal and oil and gas. We also have to elevate the billions who burn wood, and dung and coal to clean heat and cooking. Billions of stove & campfires 24/7

241 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:47:15pm

re: #237 Cannadian Club Akbar

Loaded as in money or loaded as in drunk?

Drunk. I've seen some crazy shit go down in the office. People behaving like children.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:47:40pm

re: #239 Lidane

Wow.

243 laZardo  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:47:53pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Drunk. I've seen some crazy shit go down in the office. People behaving like children.

Steve Carell or Ricky Gervais version?

244 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:48:09pm

re: #243 laZardo

More IT Crowd.

245 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:48:42pm

re: #242 Sergey Romanov

Wow.

As in "that's fucked up".

246 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:50:08pm

Alright. I'm heading for a Quaker clam bake.

247 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:51:31pm

re: #245 Sergey Romanov

As in "that's fucked up".

Yep. Some people are jerks, especially to interns, gophers, and other low level employees.

I've been lucky in that the people I work with are pretty cool. Even the CEO is approachable. But I've had friends and classmates treated like packmules and as little more than slaves who should be grateful for the job. It sucks.

248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:52:46pm

re: #246 Obdicut

Alright. I'm heading for a Quaker clam bake.

Clams in Oatmeal?

249 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:53:34pm

re: #248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Clams in Oatmeal?

The clams are dehydrated.

250 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:54:55pm
Eeerie
17 August 2011, 8:39 pm

You know what this rubbish reminds me of? Arguing with Global Warming deniers. Because the conclusions are sooooo howwid, the premises can’t be real.

What a disgrace.

251 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:55:37pm

Oh. My. GOD. Greatest YouTube mash-up EVAR. Instant classic.

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:57:14pm

re: #239 Lidane

Either. Both. Gas costs money, and in that situation when you're ordered to get Starbucks, chances are the person doing the ordering isn't going to hand you a $20 to pay for any of it.

For AIDSWalk, I knew I'd get the money back. I was just unimpressed with his manners.

Especially from a fundraiser. Now, I KNOW this guy can be charming and socially appropriate if he needs to.

253 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:57:52pm

re: #251 Lidane

Oh. My. GOD. Greatest YouTube mash-up EVAR. Instant classic.

[Video]

AAAA! And my favorite song at that.

254 aagcobb  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 12:58:25pm

re: #199 RadicalModerate

The obvious question that has to be asked: Exactly how does she propose to do this? There's only three possible ways (either alone, or in combination) to lower gasoline prices.

1. Huge increases in supply over demand. Not going to happen, at least any time in the near future, as OPEC, and other petroleum producers have a vested interest in keeping a tight rein on the supply side. Outside of some price war overseas, this situation will not change. "Drill baby drill" would have a miniscule effect on prices.

2. Major reduction in demand. The only way this happens is a significant ramp-up of alternative fuels (which wouldn't drive down prices significantly anyway), or replacing a LOT of gasoline-powered vehicles with electrics/hybrids. Given Bachmann's environmental policies, once again, not gonna happen.

3. Price controls. From a GOP member? Yeah. Right.

Don't forget, a major reduction in demand can be caused by another massive economic downturn, the likely result of President Bachmann refusing to lift the debt limit and causing the US to default.

255 Achilles Tang  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:04:56pm

re: #57 garhighway


This is the time to be a GOP political consultant. Those guys are going to be in the chips from now until the herd thins out next spring.

I've been wondering about this. Who are these people who can drop everything for a political campaign? Are they paid enough to go fishing until the next cycle starts?

256 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:09:37pm

re: #255 Naso Tang

I've been wondering about this. Who are these people who can drop everything for a political campaign? Are they paid enough to go fishing until the next cycle starts?

If they're congress critters, gubners or senators, they can still do their jobs.
If they're rich and not in an elected office they can do whatever.
Or start a 501C or whatever.

257 Killgore Trout  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:13:14pm

Newt is taking his campaign seriously...
Gingrich Detours to Hawaii

Former Speaker Newt Gingrich's presidential campaign is taking a West Coast swing next week, including traveling to the not-so-consequential primary state of Hawaii for two events.

The Republican's public schedule shows two stops on the island of Maui -- a Saturday visit with local GOP activists and a Monday visit to a prep school in Makawao -- with no publicly scheduled events in between.

258 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:13:24pm

Ron Paul on Rick Perry copying Ron Paul with anti-Federal Reserve tough talk: “politically astute” (CNBC)

259 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:22:34pm
260 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:27:06pm

So what's the word? Are both Bachmann and Perry tied for first place on the crazy ticket?

261 Lidane  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 1:33:50pm

re: #259 000G

Jack Cafferty asks: Ron Paul only grown-up running for president in GOP?

If Luap Nor is considered the grown-up in the GOP field, the Republicans are in serious trouble.

262 zora  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 2:04:13pm

re: #261 Lidane

unless grown-up is a euphemism for really old guy, i don't get it.

263 Decatur Deb  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 2:25:12pm

re: #227 Sergey Romanov

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The Vietnam-era US Army had a very mild version of that, based on differing service obligations. RA (enlistee) and US (draftee) troops did 3 and 2 year terms. National Guard and Reserve enlistees did only 6 months active duty for training, then went home to sit out the duration. There was some effort to see they got a year's worth of shit duty during their stay.

264 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 4:34:09pm

re: #240 Rightwingconspirator

One of the scary parts is it's not enough to get the modern world off coal and oil and gas. We also have to elevate the billions who burn wood, and dung and coal to clean heat and cooking. Billions of stove & campfires 24/7

Actually, from the point of view of AGW, wood and dung burning are carbon neutral. With new-model, efficient ovens, wood and dung fires can cook reasonably cleanly, thoroughly enough that the food is cooked, and reasonably fast. Charcoal, assuming the forests are managed so there will be wood next year for charring, also works out to CO2 neutral.

Combined with solar photovoltaics and LED's so that people can have home lighting at night, and cell phones so they can have access to information, cheap and simple devices that screen out parasites from drinking water, and so on, you've got the makings of a sharp run-up in public health, lifespan, and educational level among the most isolated and poorest regions of the world.

By and by, we can do more. But first steps now save lives now, and there doesn't seem to be enough money now to go with the much more expensive project of first-world-izing everybody forthwith.

Think of it as economic first aid. Before the doctor can come, before the hospital can do its thing, there's still work to do. Ensure the airway, stop the bleeding, stabilize the spinal column.

These things make a huge difference.

265 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Aug 17, 2011 11:36:55pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

Missed you so much!
Glad to have you back.

We can all choose to contribute to the solution of the problem, but many of us are too lazy.
*smooch*


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