Obama Administration Suspends Many Illegal Immigrant Deportations

Fewer youths to be deported
US News • Views: 23,123

In a major step toward a more sane immigration policy, the Obama administration announced yesterday that deportation proceedings would be suspended for many illegal immigrants.

The new policy is expected to help thousands of illegal immigrants who came to the United States as young children, graduated from high school and want to go on to college or serve in the armed forces.

White House and immigration officials said they would exercise “prosecutorial discretion” to focus enforcement efforts on cases involving criminals and people who have flagrantly violated immigration laws.

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184 comments
1 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:12:54am

White House and immigration officials said they would exercise “prosecutorial discretion” to focus enforcement efforts on cases involving criminals and people who have flagrantly violated immigration laws.

Good. Those are resources much better spent, than on con feelgood measures like dragnets.

2 Kragar  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:13:11am

And the wingnut blogs begin saying he's a commie liberal pinko only doing this to buy votes before an election in 5..4..3..2..

3 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:14:09am

Republicans shouldn't respond much to this and should keep any response low-key. Part of the strategy of this sort of action is to get conservatives to yell about it then use that yelling to paint the GOP as racist. The GOP should resist the trap. Let folks like Lou Dobbs carry the can on this one and don't engage.

4 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:14:34am

It's about time.

The White House is interpreting “family” to include partners of lesbian, gay and bisexual people.

It's about time.

5 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:14:36am

We should play another drinking game on how the vast unhinged will respond to this one.

6 celticdragon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:15:26am

Michelle Bachman is going to have kittens over this.

7 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:15:50am

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Republicans shouldn't respond much to this and should keep any response low-key. Part of the strategy of this sort of action is to get conservatives to yell about it then use that yelling to paint the GOP as racist. The GOP should resist the trap. Let folks like Lou Dobbs carry the can on this one and don't engage.

That's some mighty powerful wishful thinking. There's no way that this will be ignored by the right.

8 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:17:11am

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Republicans shouldn't respond much to this and should keep any response low-key.

You're dreaming.

Part of the strategy of this sort of action is to get conservatives to yell about it then use that yelling to paint the GOP as racist. The GOP should resist the trap. Let folks like Lou Dobbs carry the can on this one and don't engage.

They have painted themselves. Stock up on paint remover if you want to help them.

9 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:17:16am

Has the freakout started yet, or all the nutbags out having lunch at the moment?
/

10 blueraven  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:18:31am

The President can play golf and protect terror babies, but he cant get back to Washington to fix the economy!!

11 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:18:59am

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Republicans shouldn't respond much to this and should keep any response low-key. Part of the strategy of this sort of action is to get conservatives to yell about it then use that yelling to paint the GOP as racist.

Who needs a "strategy" to get the GOP to wet the bed about immigrants, when the GOP does that all on their own?

The GOP should resist the trap. Let folks like Lou Dobbs carry the can on this one and don't engage.

lmao

12 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:20:38am

They'll be crying amnesty faster then you can say tax cuts.

13 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:22:20am

re: #10 blueraven

I had to LOL the other day when I saw that Fox News clip with the hosts whining about Obama not 'showing us a plan,' and Kaen Tumulty had to explain to the numbskulls that Congress wasn't currently in session, so any 'plan' would just sit there until they come back.

You have to explain everything to those dim bulbs at Fox.

14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:22:23am

re: #5 thedopefishlives

We should play another drinking game on how the vast unhinged will respond to this one.

One sip for every "I'm not a racist, but...!!!" You'll be passed out in no time.

15 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:23:15am

re: #9 makeitstop

Has the freakout started yet, or all the nutbags out having lunch at the moment?
/

They've been in full freakout since yesterday. For example, the freepers:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Hot Air:

[Link: hotair.com...]

16 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:23:25am

re: #5 thedopefishlives

We should play another drinking game on how the vast unhinged will respond to this one.

No thanks. I like having a functional liver.

17 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:24:13am

re: #7 Lidane

That's some mighty powerful wishful thinking. There's no way that this will be ignored by the right.

It can't be ignored, but the Republican party should keep its reaction low-key. Let some of the pundits and bloggers scream about it, but keep the big names, candiates and elected officials mostly quiet. A response must be made, but that response should be a rollout of an immigration plan which is not "enforcement only". Answer the president calmly and sensibly. Don't mount up and charge, you'll just charge into a political kill-zone. Fight smart and win.

18 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:24:45am

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

It can't be ignored, but the Republican party should keep its reaction low-key. Let some of the pundits and bloggers scream about it, but keep the big names, candiates and elected officials mostly quiet. A response must be made, but that response should be a rollout of an immigration plan which is not "enforcement only". Answer the president calmly and sensibly. Don't mount up and charge, you'll just charge into a political kill-zone. Fight smart and win.

Yeah. Good luck with that.

19 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:25:38am

re: #14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

One sip for every "I'm not a racist, but...!!!" You'll be passed out in no time.

I was thinking of using the phrase "border fence", myself.

20 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:25:51am

More bogus video from Breitbart....
Breitbart Site, Fox Nation Fall For Misquoted YouTube Hit On Sen. Lautenberg

the title of the Breitbart.tv post is "Sen Lautenberg: 'We Got to Eliminate the Rich.' "

Toward the end of the video, Lautenberg references Warren Buffett's recent statement that taxes should be raised on the wealthy. Lautenberg then says, "And it's a tough fight, but" -- and at this point, a graphic appears over the footage that says, "We got to Eliminate the rich."

If you listen carefully and ignore the text over the video, it's fairly easy to understand that what Lautenberg actually says is, "And it's a tough fight, but we've got to eliminate the waste, we've got to eliminate the fraudulent practice, the expanded things that have no value and the" -- and at this point, the video ends.

21 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:26:37am

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

It can't be ignored, but the Republican party should keep its reaction low-key. Let some of the pundits and bloggers scream about it, but keep the big names, candiates and elected officials mostly quiet. A response must be made, but that response should be a rollout of an immigration plan which is not "enforcement only". Answer the president calmly and sensibly. Don't mount up and charge, you'll just charge into a political kill-zone. Fight smart and win.

Dark - this is 100% pure bait, and I'm willing to bet that at the very least Bachmann (and maybe Perry) will find it irresistible.

Sometimes I think Obama does things like this just to drive the numbskulls crazy, and 9 times out of 10 they fall for it.

22 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:27:07am

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

It can't be ignored, but the Republican party should keep its reaction low-key.

Conservatives haven't had a low-key reaction on immigrantin since the Know Nothing party. What indicates to you they are capable of being low key in 2011? Rotfl!

23 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:27:22am

Obama is letting illegal criminals run through the streets!!!

Uh, no.
[Link: www.politifact.com...]

24 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:30:09am

re: #19 thedopefishlives

I was thinking of using the phrase "border fence", myself.

Border fence is good. "Anchor babies" could be another one.

How about three sips for "gut clarify the 14th Amendment"?

Haven't heard any of the dumb bigots parrot that stupid old line in a few months.

25 jaunte  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:31:07am

The NumbersUSA response:

"The Obama administration should enforce immigration laws, not look for ways to ignore them," said Rep. Lamar Smith (R., Texas), head of the House Judiciary Committee.

Illegal aliens living in the United States typically don't apply for work permits for fear of deportation, but under the new policy, they could apply for work permits if granted deferred action or parole and compete with 22 million Americans who can't find a full-time job.
[Link: www.numbersusa.com...]


I don't think the 22 million referenced are all are looking for a lower-wage job cleaning hotels and offices, busing tables, or picking crops.

26 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:31:26am

I'm really warming up to Huntsman....
Is He Even Trying? Huntsman Seems Determined To Alienate the GOP Base

After a tweet suggesting the "call me crazy" line had attracted "lots of new followers," Huntsman wrote, "I wonder if a tweet where I admit how much I like Captain Beefheart will make the followers skyrocket even more!" He then linked to a youtube video of "The Cap and his Magic Band playing their oh-so-conventional sound to a bunch of hip crowd members on a beach." It seems a curiously inapt metaphor for his campaign.

On Friday Huntsman tapped into the anti-Tea Party story of the day once again, by referencing the flame-out former Delaware Senate candidate, Christine O'Donnell. She, of course, had stormed off the set of a Piers Morgan interview on Wednesday night, after taking umbrage to Morgan's line of questioning.
Talking Points Memo on Facebook

Huntsman, flagging that he too would be appearing on the show, sent out a tweet reading: @PiersMorgan - Looking forward to being on Monday's show. Will try and have as much fun as @ChristineOD did"

27 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:31:38am

re: #21 makeitstop

Dark - this is 100% pure bait, and I'm willing to bet that at the very least Bachmann (and maybe Perry) will find it irresistible.

Sometimes I think Obama does things like this just to drive the numbskulls crazy, and 9 times out of 10 they fall for it.

I know, that's why I'm saying what I'm saying. Perry likely has to respond to this, being governor of Texas, but he should respond with a plan of his own. Something better keyed towards a solution than simply not enforcing the law. A trap like this can be turned on the person trying to spring it if you spot the trap early. Perry can use this to hit Obama effectively, and I hope he does.

28 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:32:22am

Captain Beefheart - Electricity

29 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:32:43am

More right-wing freakouts over this policy:

Gov. Jan Brewer -- [Link: www.politico.com...]

TownHall

Fox News -- [Link: mediamatters.org...]

MMD Newswire -- [Link: www.mmdnewswire.com...]

There are even calls for impeachment among the comments and freakouts.

30 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:33:49am

re: #21 makeitstop

Sometimes I think Obama does things like this just to drive the numbskulls crazy, and 9 times out of 10 they fall for it.

That's where their Christian Voucher Academy, Teabag U.-track education lands them, I guess. Dumb, stupid, miserable bigots. They deserve to be have their money ripped off by people as venal as Bachmann and Perry.

31 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:33:51am

re: #27 Dark_Falcon


[...]

Perry can use this to hit Obama effectively, and I hope he does.

Would you prefer President Perry to a second term of President Obama?

32 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:34:07am

ZOMG! Obama stopped enforcing the Constitution!

[Link: www.rightsidenews.com...]

33 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:35:26am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm really warming up to Huntsman...
Is He Even Trying? Huntsman Seems Determined To Alienate the GOP Base

Maybe he's like OCSP and enjoys riling up wingnuts.

/not a snipe at OCSP, BTW.

34 jaunte  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:35:58am

Perry Walks a Fine Line on Immigration in Texas


We have less systematic data about what the business leaders want (let alone what they actually do in the political arena). But political activities and public pronouncements on immigration-related issues suggest that the positions held by the business constituency in the Republican Party differ noticeably from the GOP rank and file.

Compare, for example, the support for comprehensive immigration reform on the legislative page on immigration at the website of the Texas Association of Business (TAB) with the Republican Party of Texas platform and statewide polling numbers. The GOP rank and file is evenly split on comprehensive reform if it includes a path to citizenship for any illegal immigrants.

One TAB proposal is to allow “hard-working, tax-paying undocumented workers to earn legal status.” In general, the TAB positions look for reform that avoids disruptions in the existing labor market and increases predictability for employers. That is a markedly different set of concerns than what is expressed in the Republican Party platform.

35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:36:23am

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

A trap like this can be turned on the person trying to spring it if you spot the trap early.

Paranoia will destroy ya.

It's just a policy announcement, not some "trap". Not everyone is out to get the poor little bedwetting GOP, frightened of the very planet they live on.

36 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:36:36am

re: #31 iossarian

Would you prefer President Perry to a second term of President Obama?

Quite possibly, yes. I could see myself voting for him, whereas I could not vote for Michelle Bachmann.

37 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:37:32am

re: #15 Lidane

They've been in full freakout since yesterday. For example, the freepers:

[Link: www.freerepublic.com...]

Hot Air:

[Link: hotair.com...]

Wading through the freeper posts, the most common point they were trying to assert was that all 300,000 of the non-deported undocumented immigrants would now be Obama voters.

Except for one small problem. They can't legally vote. Nor can the millions of immigrants legally here. Voting rights and privileges are extended only to CITIZENS of the United States of legal voting age and status.

One other thing I noticed. There's a LOT of support in that thread for neo-Nazi supporter Joe Arpaio, who as of yesterday announced that he's a birther as well.

38 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:37:40am

re: #35 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Paranoia will destroy ya.

It's just a policy announcement, not some "trap". Not everyone is out to get the poor little bedwetting GOP, frightened of the very planet they live on.

I'll draw my own conclusions, thank you very much. As you've pointed out, I don't need your validation.

39 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:37:43am

OT, but I just got a note from Amazon telling me the Spanish copy of the Qu'ran I'd put up for sale sold.

Creeping Sharia! :O

///

40 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:38:02am

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Maybe he's like OCSP and enjoys riling up wingnuts.

/not a snipe at OCSP, BTW.

It doesn't take much to rile up wingnuts. Usually, simply darkening their door makes them angry, and nervous.

Don't make me have to post pictures of how they react when we do.

41 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:38:07am

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

Quite possibly, yes. I could see myself voting for him, whereas I could not vote for Michelle Bachmann.

I can't bring myself to upding this statement due to its content, but I appreciate the honesty.

If you post something along the lines of "I like puppies", I'd be happy to upding that instead.

42 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:38:59am

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

I'll draw my own conclusions, thank you very much. As you've pointed out, I don't need your validation.

It's not a "trap", stop acting like a paranoiac.

43 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:39:07am

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Maybe he's like OCSP and enjoys riling up wingnuts.

/not a snipe at OCSP, BTW.

I think he's just hoping that by being the one candidate to stand up to the Tea Party he'll have some extra credibility next time.

44 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:39:56am

re: #39 Lidane

OT, but I just got a note from Amazon telling me the Spanish copy of the Qu'ran I'd put up for sale sold.

Creeping Sharia! :O

///

Shouldn't that be 'sharia arrastramiento'?

45 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:39:59am

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I know, that's why I'm saying what I'm saying. Perry likely has to respond to this, being governor of Texas, but he should respond with a plan of his own. Something better keyed towards a solution than simply not enforcing the law. A trap like this can be turned on the person trying to spring it if you spot the trap early. Perry can use this to hit Obama effectively, and I hope he does.

Perry already has a plan. Invade Mexico. Oops, at the same time, (last November) he also said this:

"How about Perryesque?" the governor said. "The fact of the matter is I'm not running for the presidency of the United States - don't want to be the president of the United States."
46 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:40:28am

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

Quite possibly, yes. I could see myself voting for him, whereas I could not vote for Michelle Bachmann.

So you've decided to give AGW, creationism, and being incredibly anti-woman a pass.

Why, exactly? What is so wrong with Obama you're willing to vote for Perry?

47 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:40:28am

re: #39 Lidane

OT, but I just got a note from Amazon telling me the Spanish copy of the Qu'ran I'd put up for sale sold.

Creeping Sharia! :O

///

I had a lovely leather copy I sold back about a year ago. Along with the Orthodox Study Bible, also leatherbound.

48 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:40:38am

re: #32 Lidane

ZOMG! Obama stopped enforcing the Constitution!

[Link: www.rightsidenews.com...]

Gee, didn't Reagan do that back in 1986 too, or am I mistaken?

49 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:41:15am

re: #43 Killgore Trout

I think he's just hoping that by being the one candidate to stand up to the Tea Party he'll have some extra credibility next time.

Then he should go all in, and dial back his anti-EPA dumbassery. But it is good to see someone at least approaching the moderate line on the GOP.

50 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:41:32am

re: #29 Lidane

More right-wing freakouts over this policy:

Gov. Jan Brewer -- [Link: www.politico.com...]

TownHall

Fox News -- [Link: mediamatters.org...]

MMD Newswire -- [Link: www.mmdnewswire.com...]

There are even calls for impeachment among the comments and freakouts.

I love that they're crying amnesty when it's the guy they worship Reagan who actually did amnesty. And by the way, I like this program, these people want to be Americans. And I've seen far too many people try to make these immigrants in to something less than human. It's terrible.

51 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:42:18am

re: #48 MrSilverDragon

Gee, didn't Reagan do that back in 1986 too, or am I mistaken?

Silly, everything bad Reagan did was because he was tricked by a witty leprechaun Tip O'Neill.

52 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:43:03am

re: #49 Obdicut

Then he should go all in, and dial back his anti-EPA dumbassery. But it is good to see someone at least approaching the moderate line on the GOP.

There's relatively sane, and then there's full-on sane.

No-one's expecting a GOP politician to go full-on sane. That's career suicide.

53 jaunte  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:43:46am

re: #29 Lidane

Among these people are the ones responsible for running that tv ad with the little blond-haired blue-eyed girl having a sad because she's doomed to pay off the Obama deficit.

54 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:44:48am

re: #43 Killgore Trout

I think he's just hoping that by being the one candidate to stand up to the Tea Party he'll have some extra credibility next time.

Doubtful. Conservatives love their conformists.

But without someone normal on their ticket, they can say hello to four more years of the Socialist Communist Hitler 57 States Mustard Arugula No-Birthcertificate Kenyan.

And I'll be very pleased to rub their noses in it, every minute.

55 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:44:58am

re: #46 Obdicut

So you've decided to give AGW, creationism, and being incredibly anti-woman a pass.

Why, exactly? What is so wrong with Obama you're willing to vote for Perry?

Don't forget his secessionist and Confederate apologist crap.

56 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:47:32am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

Don't forget his secessionist and Confederate apologist crap.

Oh right.

“When we came into the nation in 1845, we were a republic, we were a stand-alone nation, and one of the deals was, we can leave anytime we want. So we’re kind of thinking about that again.”

This is, of course, not fucking true.

57 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:48:43am

re: #25 jaunte

The NumbersUSA response:

It pisses me off that even the New York Times goes to Roy Beck for comment every time this topic comes up. Heck, why not Stormfront, while you're at it?

58 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:48:45am

re: #47 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I had a lovely leather copy I sold back about a year ago. Along with the Orthodox Study Bible, also leatherbound.

Pick up a leather-bound Hebrew Tanakh at the Zionist Mall and you'll have a full set. :)

59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:49:11am

re: #55 HappyWarrior

Don't forget his secessionist and Confederate apologist crap.

Another reason he will clean up among social conservatives and other dumb, stupid bigots.

That, and kissing up to Bob FAMiLY LEADER Slave Pledge Vander Plaats.

Can't forget the pron distribution, either. /Schadenfreude

60 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:49:20am

re: #32 Lidane

ZOMG! Obama stopped enforcing the Constitution!

[Link: www.rightsidenews.com...]

Good grief. I just went to their front page and they have an editorial supporting the EDL front and center. Not to mention linking to borderline white nationalist sites, and a couple articles on some upcoming "race war".

61 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:49:47am

re: #56 Obdicut

Oh right.

“When we came into the nation in 1845, we were a republic, we were a stand-alone nation, and one of the deals was, we can leave anytime we want. So we’re kind of thinking about that again.”

This is, of course, not fucking true.

Yeah, there was that little dustup between 1861-1865 that kind of dragged them kicking and screaming back into the Union.

62 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:50:25am

re: #56 Obdicut

Oh right.

“When we came into the nation in 1845, we were a republic, we were a stand-alone nation, and one of the deals was, we can leave anytime we want. So we’re kind of thinking about that again.”

This is, of course, not fucking true.

I believe they were annexed weren't they? It's typical though of people like Perry who think a civil war would be great fun. Of course, those shitheads forget that the civil war was one of the and perhaps the most tragic time in our history. We are better off as a nation for the South having lost and the institution of slavery lost with it. Of course, Mr. Perry and his allies probably disagree with that.

63 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:50:29am

re: #60 RadicalModerate

Good grief. I just went to their front page and they have an editorial supporting the EDL front and center. Not to mention linking to borderline white nationalist sites, and a couple articles on some upcoming "race war".

Oh, ew. I wouldn't have linked them if I'd known. I just did a Google News search for immigration and saw all the freakouts.

64 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:50:31am

Palin: Obama 'very tone deaf' with vacation

Washington (CNN) - While the White House is still working on the jobs proposal the President will put forth in early September, former Republican Vice Presidential nominee Sarah Palin has already drawn some conclusions.

Saying it will be based on his past record which she said has failed to spur growth, Palin called the upcoming plan a "third stimulus" program and said it will be counterproductive to the president's aims of creating jobs.

"Unfortunately he is of that mindset of incurring more debt will get us out of debt," Palin, a paid contributor to Fox News, said in an interview on that network on Thursday.

While administration officials have said there will be new spending proposed as part of his initiative next month, they said any of that additional cost will be offset by deficit reduction that is included in the plan put forth by the special congressional super committee.

On the president's vacation to the resort island of Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts beginning Thursday, Palin said Obama is "very, very tone deaf" for continuing with his vacation because of economic problems facing the country.

Asked if he should go, Palin responded "I wouldn't if I were he, especially to Martha's Vineyard," and added, "I think he will hear from enough Americans that he will come back early."

Projection, thy name is Palin!

65 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:51:14am

re: #61 Alouette

Yeah, there was that little dustup between 1861-1865 that kind of dragged them kicking and screaming back into the Union.

I really don't get people who not only pretend the South was defensible as a culture in the Civil War, but also that they won.

66 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:51:45am

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Palin: Obama 'very tone deaf' with vacation

Says the woman who hasn't held a job in two years. Pfft.

67 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:52:25am

re: #60 RadicalModerate

Good grief. I just went to their front page and they have an editorial supporting the EDL front and center. Not to mention linking to borderline white nationalist sites, and a couple articles on some upcoming "race war".

The also have this posted on their front page....
The Breivik Portfolio: The Chechen Connection
Jihadist!

68 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:52:36am

re: #59 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Another reason he will clean up among social conservatives and other dumb, stupid bigots.

That, and kissing up to Bob FAMiLY LEADER Slave Pledge Vander Plaats.

Can't forget the pron distribution, either. /Schadenfreude

That last isn't valid as it happened. Rick Perry was an investor in a chain of video stores that rented porn as a small part of their business. It's a nontroversy.

69 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:52:41am

re: #63 Lidane

Oh, ew. I wouldn't have linked them if I'd known. I just did a Google News search for immigration and saw all the freakouts.

After the first paragraph in that article where he pretty admits to being a birther, I pretty much figured the rest of the site had very little interest to me.

70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:53:38am

re: #58 Alouette

Pick up a leather-bound Hebrew Tanakh at the Zionist Mall and you'll have a full set. :)

I might just do that :)

71 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:54:29am

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Plus, "If I were he"???

You can't make up for "refudiate" by using hyper-correct nominatives!

72 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:54:30am

re: #69 MrSilverDragon

After the first paragraph in that article where he pretty admits to being a birther, I pretty much figured the rest of the site had very little interest to me.

pretty *much* admits.

Dangit, the coffee and/or drugs are wearing off.

73 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:54:45am

re: #65 Obdicut

I really don't get people who not only pretend the South was defensible as a culture in the Civil War, but also that they won.

I wish I could tell you. I'm Virginia born and raised and the fact that we celebrated Jackson and Lee with MLK always irked me. One of the great men of not just our nation's but our world's history and a couple of traitors. And there's no sugarcoating it honestly, Lee and Jackson both took an oath to the United States, and they broke it. They were traitors. Lee may have not been a war criminal like Nathan Bedford Forrest but he committed treason plain and simple. And before someone gives me oh he was just loyal to his state, I'll raise you George Thomas, fellow Virginian and loyal Union man.

74 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:55:53am

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

[...] that rented porn as a small part of their business. [...]

Small part. Hurr hurr.

75 allegro  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:56:25am

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

Quite possibly, yes. I could see myself voting for him, whereas I could not vote for Michelle Bachmann.

Where do you see their differences and in what way is Perry the better candidate?

76 recusancy  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:56:45am

re: #74 iossarian

Small part. Hurr hurr.

I always thought his cowboy swagger act was over compensating for something.

77 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:57:07am

Sarah just prefers being an armchair QB to having a real job. It's very easy to bitch about everything Obama does when you're a paid right wing shrill.

78 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:57:43am

re: #73 HappyWarrior

To be fair, though, no-one's suggesting that the French resistance fighters who rebelled against the Vichy government were anything other than loyal patriots.

The whole patriot/traitor thing is purely defined in terms of the winning side. This is of course not to say that people who supported the South's stance on slavery are not to be condemned on those grounds.

79 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:58:21am

re: #73 HappyWarrior
A lot of the reasoning behind the most draconian immigration laws is simply the adage "Well it's illegal ain't it? why should these people not be punished for violating the law?"

re: #73 HappyWarrior

YUnno, after the Civil War there was a General Amnesty for all those who acted out of good raith, or out of a misguided sense of loyalty to one's state over one's nation.

But when it comes to the immigration question, there is no room for amnesty...

80 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:58:33am

re: #77 HappyWarrior

Sarah just prefers being an armchair QB to having a real job. It's very easy to bitch about everything Obama does when you're a paid right wing shrill.

All the media attention, none of the work or accountability. It's a perfect gig for Caribou Barbie.

81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:58:33am

re: #62 HappyWarrior

I believe they were annexed weren't they? It's typical though of people like Perry who think a civil war would be great fun. Of course, those shitheads forget that the civil war was one of the and perhaps the most tragic time in our history. We are better off as a nation for the South having lost and the institution of slavery lost with it. Of course, Mr. Perry and his allies probably disagree with that.

There are a lot of stupid, seething confederates in the USA, still smarting over getting their asses handed to them by the federal government and the Civil Rights movement. Like they lined the sidewalks for Sarah Palin, Dick Armey and his Koch Brothers printouts, they will all be coming out of the woodwork to vote for Perry.

82 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 11:59:16am

re: #78 iossarian

But anyone who supported the South was, in fact, supporting that view of slavery. Even if they personally felt slavery was reprehensible but thought states should be allowed to do it, it doesn't matter.

Every secession declaration explicitly mentions slavery.

Every state seceded to preserve the institution of slavery.

83 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:00:02pm

re: #78 iossarian

To be fair, though, no-one's suggesting that the French resistance fighters who rebelled against the Vichy government were anything other than loyal patriots.

The whole patriot/traitor thing is purely defined in terms of the winning side. This is of course not to say that people who supported the South's stance on slavery are not to be condemned on those grounds.

True I guess. I just resent Lee being put on par with King in my state. I don't despise Lee to be honest with you. But the cause of the Confederate States of America, hell yes.

84 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:00:21pm

re: #82 Obdicut

Every state seceded to preserve the institution of slavery.

One of the reasons Texas seceded from Mexico was to preserve the institution of slavery

85 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:00:48pm

re: #71 iossarian

Plus, "If I were he"???

You can't make up for "refudiate" by using hyper-correct nominatives!

True. But you can upding that article to make up for the earlier post you couldn't upding.

86 KingKenrod  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:01:09pm

I don't have a problem with the policy, but it seems dumb to announce it like this - unless the goal is to publicize the decision for political advantage (to court hispanic voters). If law enforcement decides to spend more of its resources prosecuting violent crime instead of misdemeanors like shoplifting or speeding, you don't announce it. All you have to do is let the prosecutors know what the priorities are and let them manage their resources and caseloads.

Consider certain "soft crimes" like online gambling, importing prescription drugs from Canada, or minor possession. Everyone knows the government is turning a blind eye to these crimes, so you get more of it (although online gambling seems to be under the boot now).

87 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:01:24pm

re: #84 ralphieboy

Texas, the only state to secede twice to preserve slavery.

Way to go, Perry. Champion that.

88 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:01:44pm

re: #79 ralphieboy

A lot of the reasoning behind the most draconian immigration laws is simply the adage "Well it's illegal ain't it? why should these people not be punished for violating the law?"

re: #73 HappyWarrior

YUnno, after the Civil War there was a General Amnesty for all those who acted out of good raith, or out of a misguided sense of loyalty to one's state over one's nation.

But when it comes to the immigration question, there is no room for amnesty...

Funny that huh. Then again these are the same people who wave CSA flags while telling people who disagree with US foreign policy that tehy are unpatriotic. Somehow, I think they don't know and understand irony.

89 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:01:45pm

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

That last isn't valid as it happened. Rick Perry was an investor in a chain of video stores that rented porn as a small part of their business. It's a nontroversy.

If he's on the ticket, I fully expect you will dutifully cast your vote for the hypocrite sucking up to Slave Pledge Vander Plaats.

You've been asked why by others. I already know why.

90 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:04:40pm

re: #82 Obdicut

But anyone who supported the South was, in fact, supporting that view of slavery. Even if they personally felt slavery was reprehensible but thought states should be allowed to do it, it doesn't matter.

Every secession declaration explicitly mentions slavery.

Every state seceded to preserve the institution of slavery.

Declarations of Secession.

91 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:04:50pm

The West Memphis 3 have been freed.

JONESBORO, Ark. (AP) — Three men convicted of killing three 8-year-old Cub Scouts and dumping their bodies in an Arkansas ditch changed their pleas Friday, resolving a yearslong effort to win their freedom.

Under a plea bargain, Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley were being freed immediately. The boys' families were notified about the pact ahead of time but were not asked to approve it.

The defendants, known by their supporters as the West Memphis 3, agreed to a legal maneuver that lets them maintain their innocence while acknowledging prosecutors have enough evidence against them.

"I am innocent of these charges but I am entering an Alford guilty plea," Echols told the judge. Baldwin and Miskelley also reasserted their innocence.

"Although I am innocent, this plea is in my best interest," Misskelley said.

The three were credited with time served, and Echols is being freed from Arkansas' death row. They were placed on 10 years' probation and if they re-offend they could be sent back to prison for 21 years, Prosecutor Scott Ellington said.

The key to this is the tainted confession of Jesse Miskelley, who reportedly has an IQ of about 70, and was obviously manipulated, threatened, and trapped by unethical investigators. Another key is the state's reliance on an untrained quack as an "expert" witness on satanic ritual abuse, a red hot scare in the early 90s, especially in the Bible Belt.

92 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:08:32pm

re: #82 Obdicut

But anyone who supported the South was, in fact, supporting that view of slavery. Even if they personally felt slavery was reprehensible but thought states should be allowed to do it, it doesn't matter.

Every secession declaration explicitly mentions slavery.

Every state seceded to preserve the institution of slavery.

I agree with these points. I was only disagreeing with the idea that loyalty to a state rather than the union was something to be condemned in itself.

93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:08:51pm

re: #82 Obdicut

But anyone who supported the South was, in fact, supporting that view of slavery. Even if they personally felt slavery was reprehensible but thought states should be allowed to do it, it doesn't matter.

Every secession declaration explicitly mentions slavery.

Every state seceded to preserve the institution of slavery.

Texas's declaration tells us everything we need to know about confederates, then, and now.

[Link: sunsite.utk.edu...]

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government *all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights* [emphasis in the original]; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free [emphasis mine, where have we heard this before e_e], and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states.

By the secession of six of the slave-holding States, and the certainty that others will speedily do likewise, Texas has no alternative but to remain in an isolated connection with the North, or unite her destinies with the South.

94 Political Atheist  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:08:53pm

Kudos for getting after the criminal element first and foremost. The rest is a more administrative issue. Or perhaps cultural.

Yet, still nothing to seriously punish those who knowingly employ the illegal immigrant. Why are they off limits to every President and every immigration policy of the modern era? IMO-Craven convenience and payoffs via campaign money. Toothless enforcement.

Amnesty. Did we not do that already? Why yes we did. Is lather, rinse repeat good policy? I doubt it.

95 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:09:03pm

re: #92 iossarian

I agree with these points. I was only disagreeing with the idea that loyalty to a state rather than the union was something to be condemned in itself.

Yeah, that I don't care about. Just the whole slavery thing.

96 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:09:56pm

What I've brought up in the past to those who like to blame the war on "Lincoln's aggression" is that 9 of the 13 states of the CSA seceded before Lincoln officially became president. Oh and the secessionists fired on a fort that was US army property. The real tragedy of the war if you ask me is that most Confederates got to walk off scot free but Southern blacks were relegated to second class citizenship for a century.

97 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:10:49pm

re: #93 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Better link: [Link: sunsite.utk.edu...]

98 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:12:04pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

most Confederates got to walk off scot free

Scot free but greatly impoverished. Cotton production did not reach pre-war levels again until 1913...

99 albusteve  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:12:04pm

re: #94 Rightwingconspirator

Kudos for getting after the criminal element first and foremost. The rest is a more administrative issue. Or perhaps cultural.

Yet, still nothing to seriously punish those who knowingly employ the illegal immigrant. Why are they off limits to every President and every immigration policy of the modern era? IMO-Craven convenience and payoffs via campaign money. Toothless enforcement.

Amnesty. Did we not do that already? Why yes we did. Is lather, rinse repeat good policy? I doubt it.

it's all about votes and what they cost and who will pay for them...all of it

100 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:13:23pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

What I've brought up in the past to those who like to blame the war on "Lincoln's aggression" is that 9 of the 13 states of the CSA seceded before Lincoln officially became president. Oh and the secessionists fired on a fort that was US army property. The real tragedy of the war if you ask me is that most Confederates got to walk off scot free but Southern blacks were relegated to second class citizenship for a century.

A really effective Reconstruction would have required a far longer commitment than the North was willing to undertake. That kind of 'garrison and change' commitment is one that America really was not psychologically capable of undertaking prior to the end of World War II.

101 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:13:32pm

re: #98 ralphieboy

Scot free but greatly impoverished. Cotton production did not reach pre-war levels again until 1913...

And then it got outsourced to Egypt and India.

102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:17:52pm
103 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:17:55pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Republicans shouldn't respond much to this and should keep any response low-key. Part of the strategy of this sort of action is to get conservatives to yell about it then use that yelling to paint the GOP as racist. The GOP should resist the trap. Let folks like Lou Dobbs carry the can on this one and don't engage.

You make a false assumption about people wanting the GOP to look racist. I can assure you that the reason that people like me complain about it is becuase we don't like it and would be much happier if it weren't true. I don't enjoy hate and fear, that's why I'm not a conservative.

I have no desire to "paint" the GOP as racist, but they're like vinyl siding -- no painting necessary.

104 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:18:58pm

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

A really effective Reconstruction would have required a far longer commitment than the North was willing to undertake. That kind of 'garrison and change' commitment is one that America really was not psychologically capable of undertaking prior to the end of World War II.

Shoulda thought of that before basing entire regional economies on the ownership of people as part of god-given property rights...

105 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:19:31pm

re: #27 Dark_Falcon

I know, that's why I'm saying what I'm saying. Perry likely has to respond to this, being governor of Texas, but he should respond with a plan of his own. Something better keyed towards a solution than simply not enforcing the law. A trap like this can be turned on the person trying to spring it if you spot the trap early. Perry can use this to hit Obama effectively, and I hope he does.

You know, I'd love to see some rational and sane discussion from both parties. While this might be a political stunt of sorts, I think it's also a rational and effective response (you have to love/hate it when a politically oriented action also is an effective one). It's not congressional action, but congress has shown itself to be utterly dysfunctional WRT illegal immigration.

Sure, the Republicans could give a response that is more than 'build bigger walls and moats' or 'kick em all out'. But, besides huntsman, they won't. why not? because right now, the most extreme elements of the Republican party are in control. Until those elements lose their grip on the levers of power, Republican candidates will not be able to deviate from those lines and have any chance of getting the nomination.

106 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:19:56pm

re: #91 Shiplord Kirel

The West Memphis 3 have been freed.

The key to this is the tainted confession of Jesse Miskelley, who reportedly has an IQ of about 70, and was obviously manipulated, threatened, and trapped by unethical investigators. Another key is the state's reliance on an untrained quack as an "expert" witness on satanic ritual abuse, a red hot scare in the early 90s, especially in the Bible Belt.

Even after all of the misconduct by the prosecution in this case (including the deliberate suppression of DNA evidence that absolutely exonerated the three), they are still forced to enter a guilty plea to gain their freedom? Quite honestly, I'd like to see Governor Beebe grant a pardon to all three - but I have the feeling that isn't going to happen.

107 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:20:33pm

I think another interesting thing about the South that needs to be mentioned is that they were very much at least here in Virginia with the idea of disenfranchising the poor and less educated of all kinds. I saw a special lecture by a William and Mary professor on the very subject. Virginia for the longest time had the smallest number of eligible voters voting for the longest time. There also was a small populist movement called the Readjusters that attempted to go against this in the 1880's and for a time, they succeeded. Really interesting movement if you haven't heard of them. Their leader was a former Confederate general named William Mahone.

108 engineer cat  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:20:34pm

thousands of illegal immigrants who came to the United States as young children

we need to lower the capital gains tax and reduce regulation to free these immigrants so they can make a better choice of parents

109 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:20:37pm

re: #101 Alouette

And then it got outsourced to Egypt and India.

Well, the Boll Weevil then came along in the 1920's and crippled cotton growing in the South. It wasn't until the 1970's that anti-weevil measures finally cut weevils back enough to allow for clear zones where cotton can be grown.

110 blueraven  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:20:42pm

re: #86 KingKenrod

I don't have a problem with the policy, but it seems dumb to announce it like this - unless the goal is to publicize the decision for political advantage (to court hispanic voters). If law enforcement decides to spend more of its resources prosecuting violent crime instead of misdemeanors like shoplifting or speeding, you don't announce it. All you have to do is let the prosecutors know what the priorities are and let them manage their resources and caseloads.

Consider certain "soft crimes" like online gambling, importing prescription drugs from Canada, or minor possession. Everyone knows the government is turning a blind eye to these crimes, so you get more of it (although online gambling seems to be under the boot now).

Really? They shouldn't say anything about the new policy. What kind of outcry from the right do you suppose there would be if the Obama admin tried to downplay this?
Not only are they protecting illegals! but in SECRET!

111 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:21:13pm

re: #103 Charleston Chew

You make a false assumption about people wanting the GOP to look racist. I can assure you that the reason that people like me complain about it is becuase we don't like it and would be much happier if it weren't true. I don't enjoy hate and fear, that's why I'm not a conservative.

I have no desire to "paint" the GOP as racist, but they're like vinyl siding -- no painting necessary.

Heh. I just noticed the Facebook thingy on the right sidebar of Hot Air now features somebody with a Confederate flag avatar. Now why would a racist redneck want to follow a blog like Hot Air?
/rhetorical

112 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:21:25pm

re: #103 Charleston Chew

I have no desire to "paint" the GOP as racist, but they're like vinyl siding -- no painting necessary.

Seriously...why even go to the effort. The entire paranoid idea is laughable.

113 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:22:29pm

re: #106 RadicalModerate

Even after all of the misconduct by the prosecution in this case (including the deliberate suppression of DNA evidence that absolutely exonerated the three), they are still forced to enter a guilty plea to gain their freedom? Quite honestly, I'd like to see Governor Beebe grant a pardon to all three - but I have the feeling that isn't going to happen.

I'm confused. Did they or did they not commit the murders? If they are totally innocent, were there any other suspects? I realize it's a cold case but there must have been some crime scene evidence.

114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:23:34pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Heh. I just noticed the Facebook thingy on the right sidebar of Hot Air now features somebody with a Confederate flag avatar. Now why would a racist redneck want to follow a blog like Hot Air?
/rhetorical

Broad brush@!!!!!1

I am NOT a racist! My mother's favorite maid was BLACK!! So you stop saying that!!!

115 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:25:13pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

The real tragedy of the war if you ask me is that most Confederates got to walk off scot free but Southern blacks were relegated to second class citizenship for a century.

Yeah, and not just in the south, and not just blacks, either.

116 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:25:27pm

re: #113 Alouette

I'm confused. Did they or did they not commit the murders? If they are totally innocent, were there any other suspects? I realize it's a cold case but there must have been some crime scene evidence.

The reason they were given the opportunity to plea was due to the fact that a new trial had been granted to them due to all of the prosecutorial misconduct in the previous trial. The state still is maintaining their guilt, even after all of the evidence saying otherwise.

117 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:26:01pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

Heh. I just noticed the Facebook thingy on the right sidebar of Hot Air now features somebody with a Confederate flag avatar. Now why would a racist redneck want to follow a blog like Hot Air?
/rhetorical

I really love when stupid racists use Confederate flag avatars, and link back to my server. It's so much fun to pwn them.

(this was a site that my son created when he was 12 years old)

118 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:27:16pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

That reminds me - I was bicycling* around my college town** the other day when a pickup truck drove by containing four shirtless slightly-post-college-age brahs, one of them wearing a stetson.

The truck was adorned with two large confederate flags (mounted on flagpoles no less).

I couldn't tell whether they were involved in some kind of ironic stunt or not. It was actually quite confusing. Who flies the confederate flag in public?

* YES, YES, I AM A LIBERAL WEENIE.

** TAKE THAT AMERICA!

119 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:28:13pm

re: #113 Alouette

I'm confused. Did they or did they not commit the murders? If they are totally innocent, were there any other suspects? I realize it's a cold case but there must have been some crime scene evidence.

They did not commit the murders. The only evidence against them was Miskelley's confession and some bullshit from the satanic ritual abuse quack, specifically his interpretation of some occult symbols used by one of the other suspects. There have been other suspects over the years, most strongly the stepfather of one of the boys. The initial set of defense attorneys actually did a decent job, discrediting the confession, presenting alibi evidence (from school records) and impeaching the alleged expert's testimony. The judge and the yahoo jury ignored them.

120 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:29:14pm

re: #106 RadicalModerate

Even after all of the misconduct by the prosecution in this case (including the deliberate suppression of DNA evidence that absolutely exonerated the three), they are still forced to enter a guilty plea to gain their freedom? Quite honestly, I'd like to see Governor Beebe grant a pardon to all three - but I have the feeling that isn't going to happen.

The state may well still have enough evidence to warrant a retrial. In such a case, the defense lawyers likely would counsel their clients to take the plea deal. Most retrials end in reconviction, even in old cases. You do not want to be on trial before before any jury on charges of murdering Cub Scouts. The risks are too great to be run.

121 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:30:41pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

The state may well still have enough evidence to warrant a retrial. In such a case, the defense lawyers likely would counsel their clients to take the plea deal. Most retrials end in reconviction, even in old cases. You do not want to be on trial before before any jury on charges of murdering Cub Scouts. The risks are too great to be run.

The prosecutor has already said he won't re-try. He knows he has nothing.

122 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:30:42pm

re: #118 iossarian

That reminds me - I was bicycling* around my college town** the other day when a pickup truck drove by containing four shirtless slightly-post-college-age brahs, one of them wearing a stetson.

The truck was adorned with two large confederate flags (mounted on flagpoles no less).

I couldn't tell whether they were involved in some kind of ironic stunt or not. It was actually quite confusing. Who flies the confederate flag in public?

* YES, YES, I AM A LIBERAL WEENIE.

** TAKE THAT AMERICA!

In South Carolina and Mississippi, it's still flown over the state capitols.

123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:32:15pm

re: #118 iossarian

I couldn't tell whether they were involved in some kind of ironic stunt or not. It was actually quite confusing. Who flies the confederate flag in public?

I would say, satirists, or frightened bigots with something to prove.

124 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:32:56pm

re: #123 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would say, satirists, or frightened bigots with something to prove.

So soon after the intentional hit-and-run of the black man, too.

125 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:33:08pm

The only significant physical evidence in the West Memphis murders was some fibers on the binding used on one of the victims. It traced back to the stepfather of one of the victims.

126 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:34:50pm

re: #122 Dark_Falcon

In South Carolina and Mississippi, it's still flown over the state capitols.

In SC, I don't think so. IIRC they took it down and put it on the front lawn, instead, because of that evil scourge on western civilization called political correctness.

127 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:35:01pm

re: #113 Alouette

I'm confused. Did they or did they not commit the murders? If they are totally innocent, were there any other suspects? I realize it's a cold case but there must have been some crime scene evidence.

The entire case is a hot mess. The main evidence to convict is suspect. and DNA evidence tested in 2005 or so didn't implicate the WM3, and instead was consistent with the DNA of the stepfather and friend of the stepfather of one of the victims. But the DA is still convinced that the WM3 did it and the stepfather has never been considered a suspect.

So effectively, to end the entire mess, the WM3 agreed to the deal and get out of prison now, rather than having to wait months or years longer while everything winds through. I can't imagine what they've gone through in prison, so I really can't blame them for taking a deal that gets them out now. It must have been hell for them. After all, they were convicted of killing and mutiliating and possibly raping a kid. considering the lack of concern about prison rape, you can draw the conclusion what a convicted child killer and rapist would experience.

Yeah, I'd want out too.

128 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:38:44pm

re: #118 iossarian


I couldn't tell whether they were involved in some kind of ironic stunt or not. It was actually quite confusing. Who flies the confederate flag in public?

Given that I have seen in the Dallas area vehicles with Confederate regalia alongside Celtic crosses, you probably don't want to know the answer to your question.

129 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:40:13pm

re: #128 RadicalModerate

Given that I have seen in the Dallas area vehicles with Confederate regalia alongside Celtic crosses, you probably don't want to know the answer to your question.

Isn't the Celtic cross used by white supremacists often? I was told that- played a big role in why I decided to get something based off the Irish brigade's Civil War regimental banner as my first tattoo. Worked out great since the prominent harp looks cooler IMO.

130 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:44:14pm

re: #127 bloodstar

The entire case is a hot mess. The main evidence to convict is suspect. and DNA evidence tested in 2005 or so didn't implicate the WM3, and instead was consistent with the DNA of the stepfather and friend of the stepfather of one of the victims. But the DA is still convinced that the WM3 did it and the stepfather has never been considered a suspect.

So effectively, to end the entire mess, the WM3 agreed to the deal and get out of prison now, rather than having to wait months or years longer while everything winds through. I can't imagine what they've gone through in prison, so I really can't blame them for taking a deal that gets them out now. It must have been hell for them. After all, they were convicted of killing and mutiliating and possibly raping a kid. considering the lack of concern about prison rape, you can draw the conclusion what a convicted child killer and rapist would experience.

Yeah, I'd want out too.

These guys have stuck it out for 20 years, I'd say stick it out for a few more months, until the cases came up for review. Worst case scenario is they'd have to wait a few more months for retrials, which the state prosecutor's made clear he has no desire to do. No surprise considering that the situation now is a defense attorney's absolute dream.

Why do I say they should have stuck it out? Because now all three have plead guilty to murder charges (first or second) and so will have that haunting them the rest of their lives. They can claim innocence all they like, but those pleas are going to follow them everywhere.

131 RadicalModerate  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:44:17pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Isn't the Celtic cross used by white supremacists often? I was told that- played a big role in why I decided to get something based off the Irish brigade's Civil War regimental banner as my first tattoo. Worked out great since the prominent harp looks cooler IMO.

Yeah. It's one of the new favorite symbols that they're using (Stormfront actually uses it as their logo). Wearing that versus wearing a swastika in public generates a lot less backlash against them.

132 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:46:00pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Isn't the Celtic cross used by white supremacists often? I was told that- played a big role in why I decided to get something based off the Irish brigade's Civil War regimental banner as my first tattoo. Worked out great since the prominent harp looks cooler IMO.

That was a topic of much discussion here a few years ago. There was a lot of denial, but you are correct.

133 engineer cat  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:47:25pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Isn't the Celtic cross used by white supremacists often?

the ones that can manage to forget that the kkk has always been anti catholic and that the focus of anti-immigrant racism in the middle of the 19th century was aimed squarely at the irish, who "will never be able to assimilate to american culture like the protestant germans and scots immigrants"

134 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:48:08pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Isn't the Celtic cross used by white supremacists often? I was told that- played a big role in why I decided to get something based off the Irish brigade's Civil War regimental banner as my first tattoo. Worked out great since the prominent harp looks cooler IMO.

Having already ruined the swastika, they are out to taint yet another nice old sun symbol, yes. It's not going as smoothly, though, since Irish-Americans and others are fighting it tooth and claw. Because, screw these people.

In general, if you see the image with a long upright--more like a Latin cross with a circle, it's legit. The white supremacist types favor the more circular ones with the upright and the crossbar the same length. This is not universal.

135 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:53:31pm

re: #133 engineer dog

remember, these folks are not only anti-science, they are anti-history.

math is next on their list...

136 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:54:00pm

Thanks guys. Thought I had heard that somewhere. It's a shame. I've always liked the Celtic Cross. Have a small one that I bought in Ireland that's really pretty.

137 engineer cat  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:56:51pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

remember, these folks are not only anti-science, they are anti-history.

math is next on their list...

and they're also pro-magic, as in their tendancy to appropriate magical symbols from the past like the swastika, and their favorite magic spell that allows them to ignore events from the past that upset them: "revisionist history"

138 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:57:00pm

re: #133 engineer dog

the ones that can manage to forget that the kkk has always been anti catholic and that the focus of anti-immigrant racism in the middle of the 19th century was aimed squarely at the irish, who "will never be able to assimilate to american culture like the protestant germans and scots immigrants"

It is interesting. But the Celtic Cross is used by Scottish protestants as well since the Scots like the Irish are Catholic. All ended up for the best with my tat since I love it and it's very unique. Get compliments whenever I show it off.

140 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:59:18pm

re: #113 Alouette

I'm confused. Did they or did they not commit the murders? If they are totally innocent, were there any other suspects? I realize it's a cold case but there must have been some crime scene evidence.

From what I understand, crime scene evidence included a hair linked by DNA to the stepfather of one of the boys.

141 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 12:59:36pm

Okay, I just saw the Daily Show sketch about "class warfare." Can someone kindly tell me how it's class warfare and socialism for Warren Buffet suggest that the wealthy actually pay their taxes and that taxes should be at Clinton era levels but it's just fine for the pundits on Fox and other channels to demonize the poor and call them parasites and animals. Why is that okay? Sorry that angers me.

142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:02:13pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Okay, I just saw the Daily Show sketch about "class warfare." Can someone kindly tell me how it's class warfare and socialism for Warren Buffet suggest that the wealthy actually pay their taxes and that taxes should be at Clinton era levels but it's just fine for the pundits on Fox and other channels to demonize the poor and call them parasites and animals. Why is that okay? Sorry that angers me.

Buffet is a Soros plant!

Fox is fair and balanced!

143 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:04:23pm

re: #142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Haha, seriously, they call these people parasites and then whine about Obama and democrats "demonizing" people because of their wealth. As I said, the nerve of these assholes.

144 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:08:51pm

re: #139 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Perry has an awful lot of inconsistencies in his past, but if he can position himself as the GOP front-runner and Great White Hope (and not just in the metaphorical sense) then they will ignore or spin all these bumps in his record and concentrate on his core message: Low Taxes + Lax Regulation = Jobs, Jobs Jobs.

145 jaunte  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:10:32pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Stewart did a good job with that piece.

146 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:11:16pm

[Link: www.texastribune.org...]

Ok, this is a bit of pointless fun (Rick Perry caught on dashboard cam when his driver was dinged for doing 75 in a 55 zone).

HOWEVA.

The money quote comes at the end of the video. Perry "regrets" getting out of the car to talk to the police. "I would have probably got father down the road quicker if I had stayed in the car."

Not "I regret that we were speeding. It was reckless and dangerous."

Not "We have these rules for a reason and I should have known better."

No, he regrets trying to talk his way out of a ticket because it was not the expedient thing to do. He had a meeting to get to!

Yet more grist to the mill. Rules are for little people and the suspiciously brown.

147 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:11:58pm

re: #145 jaunte

Stewart did a good job with that piece.

Yes, he did. Got me pissed about the blatant double standards shown by Fox, people like Marco Rubio, and others though.

148 aagcobb  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:14:10pm

re: #144 ralphieboy

Perry has an awful lot of inconsistencies in his past, but if he can position himself as the GOP front-runner and Great White Hope (and not just in the metaphorical sense) then they will ignore or spin all these bumps in his record and concentrate on his core message: Low Taxes + Lax Regulation = Jobs, Jobs Jobs.

And if Perry is the nominee, the President will spend several hundred millions dollars reminding people that Gov. Perry thinks that Social Security and Medicare should be abolished.

149 Interesting Times  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:14:40pm

re: #141 HappyWarrior

Okay, I just saw the Daily Show sketch about "class warfare." Can someone kindly tell me how it's class warfare and socialism for Warren Buffet suggest that the wealthy actually pay their taxes and that taxes should be at Clinton era levels but it's just fine for the pundits on Fox and other channels to demonize the poor and call them parasites and animals. Why is that okay?

Because the right-wing blatherbots have the D4 strategy down to an art: Deny, Distort, Distract, Derail. And it's depressing how well it works :(

[pimp]
By the way, HappyWarrior is referring to the segment I paged earlier
[/pimp]

150 iossarian  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:16:08pm

Over and out. Great weekends all round!

151 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:22:31pm

re: #135 ralphieboy

remember, these folks are not only anti-science, they are anti-history.

math is next on their list...

Hell, Bachman wants to flat-out kill the Department of Education.

The only way they'll get votes from the next generation of voters is if they're all dirt-stupid, so they want to get that ball rolling ASAP.

152 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:25:32pm

re: #151 makeitstop

Hell, Bachman wants to flat-out kill the Department of Education.

The only way they'll get votes from the next generation of voters is if they're all dirt-stupid, so they want to get that ball rolling ASAP.

They think youth voters only vote liberal because they think we want freebies from the government or because we're naive social liberals. They're in for a nasty surprise.

153 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:27:36pm

re: #151 makeitstop

Hell, Bachman wants to flat-out kill the Department of Education.

The only way they'll get votes from the next generation of voters is if they're all dirt-stupid, so they want to get that ball rolling ASAP.

Is there a government agency or program that the GOP doesn't want to kill?

154 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:28:31pm

re: #153 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Is there a government agency or program that the GOP doesn't want to kill?

DOD

155 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:29:24pm

re: #153 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Is there a government agency or program that the GOP doesn't want to kill?

Defense. Everything else is fair game for destruction.

156 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:29:35pm

re: #154 Charleston Chew

DOD

Also, Congressional pensions and healthcare.

157 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:31:06pm

re: #155 Lidane

Defense. Everything else is fair game for destruction.

Don't let Crazy Uncle Ron hear you say that. He's liable to give you a 2 hour sermon on how much of the defense budget is not what the Founding Fathers intended.

158 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:31:54pm

re: #153 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Is there a government agency or program that the GOP doesn't want to kill?

People mentioned DoD but I'll throw in prisons. It's like these people think that those are on a totally different budget than social programs.

159 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:32:08pm

re: #157 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Don't let Crazy Uncle Ron hear you say that. He's liable to give you a 2 hour sermon on how much of the defense budget is not what the Founding Fathers intended.

I love how the national GOP is catering to his teabagger loons when just five years ago, even the Texas GOP treated Luap Nor as the crank he is.

Shows how far they've fallen as a party, IMO.

160 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:33:31pm

re: #158 HappyWarrior

People mentioned DoD but I'll throw in prisons.

I get the sense that a lot of Republicans would be happy to privatize the prison system if they could. More goodies for their big-ticket donors!

161 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:34:12pm

re: #159 Lidane

I love how the national GOP is catering to his teabagger loons when just five years ago, even the Texas GOP treated Luap Nor as the crank he is.

Shows how far they've fallen as a party, IMO.

I've said it before but I remember conservatives laughing at the Tea Party when Luap Nor started spreading it in 2006-7ish. And then this country went and elected Obama, and then they started like they gave a damn about deficits. Hint it wasn't Biden who said deficits don't matter. But let's ignore that and blame all our woes on Obama and liberals and make every Republican who fucks up in to a progressive.

162 Lidane  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:34:31pm

re: #160 makeitstop

I get the sense that a lot of Republicans would be happy to privatize the prison system if they could. More goodies for their big-ticket donors!

Some of them would go further and privatize the police, emergency services, and the courts. Because nothing could possibly go wrong there.

163 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:34:56pm

re: #152 HappyWarrior

They think youth voters only vote liberal because they think we want freebies from the government or because we're naive social liberals. They're in for a nasty surprise.

My experience is that the younger you are the less likely you are to collect government money even when eligible. Partly because you have fewer fiscal responsibilities, are in better health, and don't mind la vie bohème; partly because you're less responsible even when it comes to collecting money owed to you. Older people have both the discipline and desperation to wade through reams of paperwork when necessary.

164 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:36:23pm

re: #162 Lidane

Some of them would go further and privatize the police, emergency services, and the courts. Because nothing could possibly go wrong there.

Pretty much anything that has a union behind it, they feel should be privatized, and the unions rendered toothless or outright banned.

165 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:36:29pm

re: #163 Charleston Chew

My experience is that the younger you are the less likely you are to collect government money even when eligible. Partly because you have fewer fiscal responsibilities, are in better health, and don't mind la vie bohème; partly because you're less responsible even when it comes to collecting money owed to you. Older people have both the discipline and desperation to wade through reams of paperwork when necessary.

I think that sounds accurate. I actually do get some government assistance (SSI and a Nixon program no less) due to my Asperger's but I was reluctant to do that. I think some of that was pride tho.

166 Charleston Chew  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:38:18pm

re: #160 makeitstop

I get the sense that a lot of Republicans would be happy to privatize the prison system if they could. More goodies for their big-ticket donors!

They'd still want the government to pay for it. Same way they've "privatized" much of the military.

167 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:39:24pm

re: #166 Charleston Chew

They'd still want the government to pay for it. Same way they've "privatized" much of the military.

Yep, and as they've furthered the privatization of our military, the more waste and mismanagement of funds has become a problem.

168 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:40:28pm

Someone here on LGF put it nicely that they were getting fed up with Republican candidates referring to the government and suggesting that ti be ran like a business. I liked and agreed with that.

169 Targetpractice  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:47:26pm

re: #168 HappyWarrior

Someone here on LGF put it nicely that they were getting fed up with Republican candidates referring to the government and suggesting that ti be ran like a business. I liked and agreed with that.

I stand by what I said awhile:

Considering the colossal blunders that led to the Great Recession, suggesting that one "run government like a business" ought to be an offense punishable by flogging in the public square.

170 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:48:11pm

re: #168 HappyWarrior

Someone here on LGF put it nicely that they were getting fed up with Republican candidates referring to the government and suggesting that ti be ran like a business. I liked and agreed with that.

My problem with that whole line of reasoning is this - what kind of a verkakte business model would make every effort to not increase revenues?

'Running the government like a business' - they're doin' it wrong. If half these boneheads had to run a business, they'd be on the street within a year.

171 makeitstop  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:52:41pm

BTW, was this video posted here today?

The guy with the glasses is James Mahoney, Director of Public Policy for Bank of America. He just casually strolls by, shakes the Walking Dude's hand and says simply 'Bank of America - we'll help you out.'

172 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:52:59pm

re: #168 HappyWarrior

Someone here on LGF put it nicely that they were getting fed up with Republican candidates referring to the government and suggesting that ti be ran like a business. I liked and agreed with that.

That's probably me. What I'm fed up with is that Republicans never give me an answer as to what kind of business model precludes raising revenues? If Republicans wanted to actually run the government like a successful business that would be one thing, but in reality they just want to run it into the ground. Their rhetoric is pure distilled cognitive dissonance.

173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:55:35pm

re: #144 ralphieboy

Perry has an awful lot of inconsistencies in his past, but if he can position himself as the GOP front-runner and Great White Hope (and not just in the metaphorical sense) then they will ignore or spin all these bumps in his record and concentrate on his core message: Low Taxes + Lax Regulation = Jobs, Jobs Jobs.

All he has to do is position himself as "jobs for disgruntled confederates, only". He will. I have zero doubt about it, and how effective it will be on the GOP constituency.

174 lostlakehiker  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:56:47pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Republicans shouldn't respond much to this and should keep any response low-key. Part of the strategy of this sort of action is to get conservatives to yell about it then use that yelling to paint the GOP as racist. The GOP should resist the trap. Let folks like Lou Dobbs carry the can on this one and don't engage.

More. Republicans should welcome this move. While we don't want an influx of people who have little education, don't speak our language, and don't share our culture, the people who fit the criteria announced are not anything like that. They do speak our language, they do have an education, and so on. Although their papers do not say so, they are effectively Americans already.

Conservatives may not believe in trying to take care of everybody, unless they're particularly devout Christians and not given to thinking much about feasibility. But conservatives traditionally believe in taking care of our own. These people, papers or not, are ours. They are of us. We raised them. We trained them. And now they're ready, willing, and able to return the favor. Deporting them is nuts.

175 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:59:06pm

re: #172 goddamnedfrank

That's probably me. What I'm fed up with is that Republicans never give me an answer as to what kind of business model precludes raising revenues? If Republicans wanted to actually run the government like a successful business that would be one thing, but in reality they just want to run it into the ground. Their rhetoric is pure distilled cognitive dissonance.

It's also cognitive dissonance, in the sense that the dumb confederates expect government to be little more than a consultancy for corporations.

176 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 1:59:17pm

re: #172 goddamnedfrank

That's probably me. What I'm fed up with is that Republicans never give me an answer as to what kind of business model precludes raising revenues? If Republicans wanted to actually run the government like a successful business that would be one thing, but in reality they just want to run it into the ground. Their rhetoric is pure distilled cognitive dissonance.

Well whomever it was made a good point, and I agree with your point here too. It seems that the only Republican answer to social programs is cuts, cuts, and more cuts.

177 lostlakehiker  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:03:08pm

re: #146 iossarian

[Link: www.texastribune.org...]

Ok, this is a bit of pointless fun (Rick Perry caught on dashboard cam when his driver was dinged for doing 75 in a 55 zone).

HOWEVA.

The money quote comes at the end of the video. Perry "regrets" getting out of the car to talk to the police. "I would have probably got father down the road quicker if I had stayed in the car."

Not "I regret that we were speeding. It was reckless and dangerous."

Not "We have these rules for a reason and I should have known better."

No, he regrets trying to talk his way out of a ticket because it was not the expedient thing to do. He had a meeting to get to!

Yet more grist to the mill. Rules are for little people and the suspiciously brown.

And yet, Perry wasn't able to get out of it. Rules are for everybody, like it or not. And that's just how it should be.

178 wrenchwench  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:03:12pm

re: #174 lostlakehiker

More. Republicans should welcome this move. While we don't want an influx of people who have little education, don't speak our language, and don't share our culture, the people who fit the criteria announced are not anything like that. They do speak our language, they do have an education, and so on. Although their papers do not say so, they are effectively Americans already.

Conservatives may not believe in trying to take care of everybody, unless they're particularly devout Christians and not given to thinking much about feasibility. But conservatives traditionally believe in taking care of our own. These people, papers or not, are ours. They are of us. We raised them. We trained them. And now they're ready, willing, and able to return the favor. Deporting them is nuts.

Republicans say that if we let these people stay, it will cause another influx. Conservatives don't consider these people "our own". They say we are rewarding criminal behavior, even if it was the parents' behavior. You say sensible things, but you're fantasizing if you think there are many Republicans and conservatives who will agree with you.

179 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:05:17pm

re: #176 HappyWarrior

Well whomever it was made a good point, and I agree with your point here too. It seems that the only Republican answer to social programs is cuts, cuts, and more cuts.

Until it's THEIR Medicare scooter that's on the chopping block. Yet, the same people were screeched about death panels and communism on cue, whenever Dick Armey told them to.

Dumb confederates.

180 lostlakehiker  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:07:24pm

re: #118 iossarian

That reminds me - I was bicycling* around my college town** the other day when a pickup truck drove by containing four shirtless slightly-post-college-age brahs, one of them wearing a stetson.

The truck was adorned with two large confederate flags (mounted on flagpoles no less).

I couldn't tell whether they were involved in some kind of ironic stunt or not. It was actually quite confusing. Who flies the confederate flag in public?

* YES, YES, I AM A LIBERAL WEENIE.

** TAKE THAT AMERICA!

Ffft. Conservatives too can pedal around. Waste not (fuel), want not.

181 HappyWarrior  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:08:20pm

re: #179 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Until it's THEIR Medicare scooter that's on the chopping block. Yet, the same people were screeched about death panels and communism on cue, whenever Dick Armey told them to.

Dumb confederates.

Goverment hands off my medicare :D. Always brings a grin.

182 lostlakehiker  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:09:36pm

re: #178 wrenchwench

Republicans say that if we let these people stay, it will cause another influx. Conservatives don't consider these people "our own". They say we are rewarding criminal behavior, even if it was the parents' behavior. You say sensible things, but you're fantasizing if you think there are many Republicans and conservatives who will agree with you.

Well thanks I guess, but it's the best I can do. I think about things, come to conclusions, and communicate my ideas and reasons. After that, it rests in the hands of the audience. Ideas can take their own sweet time catching on, after all. Sow a seed, and the crop doesn't bang you on the nose shooting out of the soil.

183 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 2:13:04pm

re: #174 lostlakehiker

Conservatives may not believe in trying to take care of everybody, unless they're particularly devout Christians and not given to thinking much about feasibility. But conservatives traditionally believe in taking care of our own. These people, papers or not, are ours. They are of us. We raised them. We trained them. And now they're ready, willing, and able to return the favor.

I'd like to see any conservative campaign on these ideas. Unless they're "no borders" glibbercons, we probably won't, any time soon.

Deporting them is nuts.

That, it is. But the idea might make a few frightened bigots "feel" as if they have more opportunities in their miserable lives without so much competition. So I don't expect many con voters to hop aboard that bandwagon.

184 KingKenrod  Fri, Aug 19, 2011 8:34:05pm

re: #86 KingKenrod

I don't have a problem with the policy, but it seems dumb to announce it like this - unless the goal is to publicize the decision for political advantage (to court hispanic voters).

Yup (pats self on back):

Another group with whom Mr. Obama has experienced an alarmingly large decline are Hispanic voters — also about 10 points since the start of the year. Although the margins of error on subsamples of Hispanic voters can be especially high because of language barriers and other issues, that could complicate Mr. Obama’s efforts to win states like Colorado and Nevada.

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]


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