Michele Bachmann’s Views on ‘Christian Submission’ More Extreme Than Meets the Eye

Frank Schaeffer on the hard right evangelical movement that spawned a President candidate
Religion • Views: 26,854

Here’s a good piece by Frank Schaeffer, who has a former insider’s perspective on the extreme religious ideology followed by Michele and Marcus Bachmann: Are Michele Bachmann’s Views About ‘Christian Submission’ Even More Extreme Than She’s Letting On?

The issue of wifely submission is at the heart of the entire anti-feminist agenda that shaped Bachmann. I should know. As I describe in my book Sex, Mom and God, the current crop of religious right leaders — including Michele Bachamnn — got their ideas and inspiration from my family’s work, books and film series. As the New Yorker correctly noted about my late father and the movies I directed when I was his nepotistic sidekick:

[Bachmann and her husband] experienced a life-altering event: they watched a series of films by the evangelist and theologian Francis Schaeffer called “How Should We Then Live?” Schaeffer, who ran a mission in the Swiss Alps known as L’Abri (“the shelter”), opposed liberal trends in theology. One of the most influential evangelical thinkers of the nineteen-seventies and early eighties, he has been credited with getting a generation of Christians involved in politics. Schaeffer’s film series consists of ten episodes tracing the influence of Christianity on Western art and culture, from ancient Rome to Roe v. Wade… He repeatedly reminds viewers of the “inerrancy” of the Bible and the necessity of a Biblical world view. “There is only one real solution, and that’s right back where the early church was,” Schaeffer tells his audience. “The early church believed that only the Bible was the final authority. What these people really believed and what gave them their whole strength was in the truth of the Bible as the absolute infallible word of God.” …Francis Schaeffer instructed his followers and students at L’Abri that the Bible was not just a book but “the total truth.” He was a major contributor to the school of thought now known as Dominionism, which relies on Genesis 1:26, where man is urged to “have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”

Bachmann’s Reconstructionist Gurus

Besides my father, Bachmann signed on as a follower of other leading “Reconstructionists” teaching “dominion.” And out of that movement came the big family, home-school movement that included a push to restore “traditional” roles of women.

This is a subject I know something about because I was the person who discovered and promoted one of the leading anti-feminist leaders who teaches absolute submission of women to their husbands — and not in the “We respect each other” Bachmann-style whitewash.

In fact, the whole conservative evangelical movement Bachmann is part of is distinguished by its hatred of the feminist movement top to bottom.

In her hedging about what submission means to her, Bachmann has signaled with a wink and a nod to the Fox News crowd that she’ll have to soft-peddle some of her harsher views – at least as she’d theoretically apply them to other ordinary evangelical moms not running for president.

Also see

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42 comments
1 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:28:35pm

as long as it doesn't get as bad as the "christian mingle" commercials

2 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:29:04pm

The fact that people like Bachmann and Perry have such a large audience shows that this sort of fundamentalist behavior is the most accurate example of religious faith in America today, if not the rest of the world.

3 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:30:29pm

By running for president, Bachmann is going against these views. The bible says that women shouldn't ever have dominion over men in anything. According to Paul, women shouldn't be leaders of any kind if it means possible telling men what to do. It's not just about husbands, it's all men. These people are the ideological American Taliban.

4 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:31:30pm

the “inerrancy” of the Bible

except of course for where you get to ignore any part that doesn't suit your purposes

5 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:32:03pm

in the end, they will fail...the question becomes, how much damage between now and then

6 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:33:03pm

“Reconstructionists” teaching “dominion.”

sounds suspiciously like the "fuhrer principle"

7 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:33:15pm

I use to do this submission thing with one of my ex-GFs on the weekends. It is fun in small doses.

8 sagehen  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:34:10pm

re: #7 The Yankee

I use to do this submission thing with one of my ex-GFs on the weekends. It is fun in small doses.

Except for the part that Bachman isn't letting us have a safeword...

9 jc717  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:36:05pm

re: #7 The Yankee

I use to do this submission thing with one of my ex-GFs on the weekends. It is fun in small doses.

I somehow doubt that what the dominionists have in mind is 'safe, sane, and consensual' ;)

10 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:36:31pm

So how can she be President? Wouldn't that make her more powerful than her hubby? This hurts my head.

11 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:36:52pm

re: #7 The Yankee

I use to do this submission thing with one of my ex-GFs on the weekends. It is fun in small doses.

Do you think if we use the Safe Word, Bachmann will stop?

12 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:38:02pm

re: #10 LudwigVanQuixote

So how can she be President? Wouldn't that make her more powerful than her hubby? This hurts my head.

Not at all. She would be in charge, unless she and her husband disagreed about something, and then she would have to do what he said.

13 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:38:14pm

re: #11 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Do you think if we use the Safe Word, Bachmann will stop?

If her husband tells her to stop. She still has to submit to him.

14 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:39:20pm

re: #3 moderatelyradicalliberal

By running for president, Bachmann is going against these views. The bible says that women shouldn't ever have dominion over men in anything. According to Paul, women shouldn't be leaders of any kind if it means possible telling men what to do. It's not just about husbands, it's all men. These people are the ideological American Taliban.

The main thing is that the views are misapplied. Bachmann isn't part of the Quiverfull movement, or Reconstructionism, I don't care what Frank Schaeffer says.

Actual Reconstructionists can't stand Bachmann (or Evangelicalism, for that matter. They are two different groups.) Those would be people like lewrockwell.com where Reconstructionist leader Gary North has been posting for the past decade+, the Constitution Party, chalcedon.org, , American Vision, Vision Forum...all of which are strictly against women having any kind of authority over men. Gary North's father in law started Christian Reconstructionism as we know it.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

There is some overlap between the two, like Gary DeMar of American Vision, and Family Research Council (they sell his books). But Michele Bachmann isn't it.

Another really good article on "dominionism" is the one linked by MikeySDA, by Sarah Posner [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Posner has been talking about this stuff for years.

15 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:40:54pm

The ticket will read Michele but in reality anyone voting for her would be electing Marcus Bachmann.

16 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:44:55pm

I wonder what Ms Bachmann would say if a 20 year old told a 65 year old father how to vote in an upcoming election. She would probably have a fit.

17 dragonfire1981  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:51:19pm

Can you imagine if by some crazy chance the Republican ticket ends up being Perry/Bachmann?

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:52:47pm

re: #3 moderatelyradicalliberal

By running for president, Bachmann is going against these views. The bible says that women shouldn't ever have dominion over men in anything. According to Paul, women shouldn't be leaders of any kind if it means possible telling men what to do. It's not just about husbands, it's all men. These people are the ideological American Taliban.

Except that Bachmann IS running for president, and anyone who finds that ideologically problematic is going to have to make one of two choices: refudiate her on those grounds, or do the Bryan Fischer thing, and discover that sometimes, in extreme hours of need, God might appoint a woman to lead (see, Esther, Deborah, Judith, etc.).

So it will be interesting to see what they do, but they are not the voting majority. The voting majority will find the whole submission factor a little weird, hence, Bachmann is playing it down.

19 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:53:15pm

re: #7 The Yankee

I use to do this submission thing with one of my ex-GFs on the weekends. It is fun in small doses.

Careful, you'll get the Bunny over here again.

20 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:53:16pm

re: #17 dragonfire1981

Can you imagine if by some crazy chance the Republican ticket ends up being Perry/Bachmann?

GOP voters will vote for anybody. So, yeah I can imagine it.

They'll lose in a landslide, though. I can't see GOP brass allowing it, but who knows...they just might be that cynical.

21 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:54:42pm

re: #20 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

GOP voters will vote for anybody. So, yeah I can imagine it.

They'll lose in a landslide, though. I can't see GOP brass allowing it, but who knows...they just might be that cynical.

a landslide?....how many points is your landslide?

22 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:55:57pm

re: #17 dragonfire1981

Can you imagine if by some crazy chance the Republican ticket ends up being Perry/Bachmann?

at that rate they might end up running against romney/pataki as well as obama/biden

23 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:57:27pm

Tripoli has fallen.

24 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:58:13pm

Michele: "Honey, if I sign this bill, my poll numbers will go up and I'll get a place in history!"

Marcus: "That bill supports gay marriage, so I won't let you sign it. It's my decision, not yours."

Michele: "Yes, dear."

25 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:58:16pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

Except that Bachmann IS running for president, and anyone who finds that ideologically problematic is going to have to make one of two choices: refudiate her on those grounds, or do the Bryan Fischer thing, and discover that sometimes, in extreme hours of need, God might appoint a woman to lead (see, Esther, Deborah, Judith, etc.).

So it will be interesting to see what they do, but they are not the voting majority. The voting majority will find the whole submission factor a little weird, hence, Bachmann is playing it down.

I think more than weird. They will find it abhorrent. We have been fighting wars in a part of the world that pretty much has the kind of society in as far as women's rights are concerned that these people seem to want. Very few rights in the home or in society in general and most Americans think its repulsive. You don't have to be a radical feminist to believe that a woman has the right to argue with her husband or have leadership roles. Most Americans don't like this crap or understand why any woman in a free society would go long with it.

26 moderatelyradicalliberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:58:49pm

re: #23 austin_blue

Tripoli has fallen.

Game over!

27 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 1:59:56pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

Except that Bachmann IS running for president, and anyone who finds that ideologically problematic is going to have to make one of two choices: refudiate her on those grounds, or do the Bryan Fischer thing, and discover that sometimes, in extreme hours of need, God might appoint a woman to lead (see, Esther, Deborah, Judith, etc.).

And not even that was original. Gary DeMar - [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

So it will be interesting to see what they do, but they are not the voting majority. The voting majority will find the whole submission factor a little weird, hence, Bachmann is playing it down.

The GOP cannot win anything with only the 20%ers of the entire electorate, let alone 20% of their own party. I expect a major move to curtail voting rights and/or get the left to simply stay home. It's the only way they can win with only a bunch of extremists to choose from.

28 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:01:04pm

re: #21 albusteve

a landslide?...how many points is your landslide?

Do you think any party can win anything with 20% of the vote?

29 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:04:25pm

re: #28 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you think any party can win anything with 20% of the vote?

that's your answer?....I think there is a shitload of over the top hyperbole and predictions based on emotion that is all but useless...where does the 20% come from?

30 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:06:26pm

re: #28 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Do you think any party can win anything with 20% of the vote?

i'd say 27%, since that is roughly the percentage that gives the most fucked up answer to any political poll

31 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:08:54pm

re: #29 albusteve

that's your answer?...I think there is a shitload of over the top hyperbole and predictions based on emotion that is all but useless...where does the 20% come from?

I think that's accounting for the tea Party having an 80% unfavorable rating among the public. It really is insanity to run a campaign with such a hated group.

32 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:11:06pm

Gaddafi reported dead on Twitter...

33 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:11:25pm

re: #29 albusteve

that's your answer?...I think there is a shitload of over the top hyperbole and predictions based on emotion that is all but useless...where does the 20% come from?

"23%" is actually an old reference to Christian right voters, dating back to the 2000 GE (sometimes the stat is anywhere from 14-45%). But it's pretty constant. See: [Link: people-press.org...]

34 jaunte  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:12:03pm

@pourmecoffee: As Tripoli falls, CNN headline: "Casey Anthony's Car Destroyed."

35 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:12:35pm

re: #32 Charles

Gaddafi reported dead on Twitter...

probably best for everyone if true

36 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:13:12pm

re: #32 Charles

Gaddafi reported dead on Twitter...

Yeah, better wait for #confirmation.

37 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:15:01pm

re: #29 albusteve

I think there is a shitload of over the top hyperbole and predictions based on emotion that is all but useless

So do I, but that doesn't mean the GOP is going to let their ticket be 100% theocrat crazy as opposed to 50% theocrat crazy/50% normal. Unless they plan to run campaigns trying to get everyone else to stay home, they're going to have to keep the moderates and centrists 1- from doing the same and 2- preferably voting for them, not the incumbent.

Where you see hyperbole and emotion in that I'm not clear on.

38 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:18:24pm

re: #32 Charles

Gaddafi reported dead on Twitter...

If true I suspect his guards killed him before they surrendered. It's an easy way to save their own hides.

39 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:20:28pm

Al Arabiya: NTC confirms Mohammed Gaddafi has been captured #Libya

40 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:22:10pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Al Arabiya: NTC confirms Mohammed Gaddafi has been captured #Libya

Captured and not killed. Oh, this is gonna get interesting.

41 Seltzer123  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 7:15:21am

A related post from the blog "This Week in Christian Nationalism":

[Link: freethoughtblogs.com...]

42 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 23, 2011 1:33:59am

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