Tripoli Falls to Rebel Forces

The colonel meets his end
Middle East • Views: 30,258

Unconfirmed reports on Twitter from multiple sources say that Muammar Gaddafi has been shot dead in Tripoli, but other sources are reporting that he has fled to Algeria. There are also reports that Gaddafi’s son Saif al-Islam has been captured.

One thing’s clear — it’s the end of the Gaddafi regime.

UPDATE at 8/21/11 3:21:49 pm

Al Jazeera has a live video feed; Gaddafi has been ranting away, but with a definite edge of desperation in his voice. Sources now believe Gaddafi is not in Tripoli, and may have already left Libya.

UPDATE at 8/21/11 3:47:17 pm

Sky News also has a live feed.

Jump to bottom

426 comments
1 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:19:00pm

Getting rid of the dictator, in case NATO and the US haven't learned it by now, is always the easy part. This is gonna backfire for sure.

2 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:19:46pm

And come tomorrow, the Right will be assuring us that this is a bad thing.

3 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:23:35pm

re: #2 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And come tomorrow, the Right will be assuring us that this is a bad thing.

why does everything have to be a partisan affair?...you can't please everybody

4 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:23:40pm

re: #2 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And come tomorrow, the Right will be assuring us that this is a bad thing.

freeper thread on "Gadhafi falls"

More bad news. How much more can we take?

Carter’s foreign policy legacy was giving rise to the hate-filled terrorist state of Iran. It looks like Obama’s legacy will be giving rise to half a dozen more of them.

Wonderful. Now we can expect Libya to be attacking Israel as well. Nice going Obama.

5 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:25:09pm

re: #4 engineer dog

WHY DIDNT OBAMA NUKE THE REBELS???

6 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:25:47pm

re: #5 SpaceJesus

WHY DIDNT OBAMA NUKE THE REBELS???

Sekrit Muslim

7 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:26:40pm

Sky live stream: [Link: go.sky.com...]
Exceptional coverage.

8 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:27:17pm

When is NATO going to declare war on freep and how do I sign up for that

9 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:28:10pm

re: #2 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And come tomorrow, the Right will be assuring us that this is a bad thing.

I was about to say, "more like, within the hour" but engineer dog beat me to it.

10 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:29:16pm

Head of the NTC now confirming Saif has been captured...via aljazeera.

11 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:32:40pm

I've seen twitters saying Frizz-head is dead and some saying he's been captured.

12 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:33:44pm

welp, at least the city was taken with a lot less bloodshed than i would have guessed.

13 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:34:30pm

Hope the Amazon Guard didn't do something brave and stupid.

14 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:34:32pm

re: #1 laZardo

Getting rid of the dictator, in case NATO and the US haven't learned it by now, is always the easy part. This is gonna backfire for sure.

The Magna Carta, The Declaration of Independence, Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, etc there are several countries that came close to biting the big one after their bloody revolutions. Hitting the restart button on history has it's perils but the possible reward is a risk many are willing to take.

15 jc717  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:34:48pm

Someone interviewed on Sky News claims that the general in charge of defending Tripoli defected several hours ago, and this allowed the rebels to enter the city unopposed.

16 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:35:20pm

TV presenter waves gun, threatens to become martyr


A presenter on state-run al-Libiyah brandished a gun and declared that the channel’s staff are ready to become martyrs in defending the station from a rebel attack, The Telegraph reported. The footage was posted on a social media website and the video cannot be independently verified.

Waving a gun at the camera, the presenter said: “With this weapon, I either kill or die today, you will not take al-Libiyah channel. You won’t take Jamahiriyah channel, Shababiyah channel, Tripoli and all of Libya. “We are all armed here and even those without a weapon are willing to be a shield in order to protect their colleagues at this channel. We are willing to become martyrs.” daily times monitor.

See ya!

17 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:35:42pm

re: #6 eclectic infidel

Sekrit Muslim

...French Luo anticolonial hates the white culture 57 states arugula teleprompter...

18 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:36:06pm

So are we on 72 hour rule until we get a confirmation?

19 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:38:12pm

re: #14 Idle Drifter

The Magna Carta, The Declaration of Independence, Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, etc there are several countries that came close to biting the big one after their bloody revolutions. Hitting the restart button on history has it's perils but the possible reward is a risk many are willing to take.

Given the part of the world this campaign is taking place in, I highly doubt the risk is worth the reward.

20 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:40:02pm

re: #19 laZardo

Given the part of the world this campaign is taking place in, I highly doubt the risk is worth the reward.

No, these people dont deserve freedom. What???

21 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:40:43pm

re: #19 laZardo

Given the part of the world this campaign is taking place in, I highly doubt the risk is worth the reward.

Except we're not the ones taking the risk, the people of Libya are. Are we now in the position of telling them what risks they can and cannot take?

22 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:40:46pm

Sorry if this has been posted:Cease fire?
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

23 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:41:18pm

re: #21 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Except we're not the ones taking the risk, the people of Libya are. Are we now in the position of telling them what risks they can and cannot take?

Since we approved the no-fly zone? Yes.

24 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:41:54pm

re: #22 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sorry if this has been posted:Cease fire?
[Link: www.reuters.com...]

Ha!

25 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:42:23pm

re: #1 laZardo

Getting rid of the dictator, in case NATO and the US haven't learned it by now, is always the easy part. This is gonna backfire for sure.

No silver lining without a cloud. Something, surely, will go wrong. Revolutions are never pretty. But that is to miss the point. Good ***ing riddance! This is the man responsible for the Lockerbie outrage. For other such terrorist attacks. He is our enemy, and not content with killing us, when he found that to be inadvisable, he turned to killing his own. That's over now.

The future will branch out and more things will go wrong. They always do. But some things will go right, which they never do with a nutcase dictator in charge.

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:44:16pm

Ding dong the witch is dead. Which old witch? The wicked witch.

At least the last few months of fighting will have formed a clear leadership among the Libyans.

Now: To hope that this is a good thing, and not a bad thing.

27 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:45:04pm

re: #25 lostlakehiker

The future will branch out and more things will go wrong. They always do. But some things will go right, which they never do with a nutcase dictator in charge that we don't sponsor.

FTFY

28 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:45:08pm

re: #23 laZardo

Since we approved the no-fly zone? Yes.

Well, then why haven't we stopped them. Hell, if our biggest concern is stability, then we should have been there, protecting Gaddafi. Not helping these rebels oust him.

29 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:45:32pm

re: #26 EmmmieG

Ding dong the witch is dead. Which old witch? The wicked witch.

At least the last few months of fighting will have formed a clear leadership among the Libyans.

Now: To hope that this is a good thing, and not a bad thing.

What leadership?

30 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:46:06pm

re: #19 laZardo

Given the part of the world this campaign is taking place in, I highly doubt the risk is worth the reward.

OK, we had no real risk except aircraft and perhaps maybe some Spec.Ops. on the ground if they ever confirm it. There's always the long transitional phase and the instability involved.

31 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:46:13pm

re: #28 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, then why haven't we stopped them. Hell, if our biggest concern is stability, then we should have been there, protecting Gaddafi. Not helping these rebels oust him.

Stability under the rebels means Europe gets its oil with less stain on their conscience than getting oil from Gaddafi.

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:46:17pm

re: #29 laZardo

What leadership?

Oh dear.

33 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:46:52pm

Gaddafi is on

[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

34 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:47:59pm

I am not sure if Gaddafi was the first Michael Jackson impersonators or the one who inspired MJ. But that is something that we should remember him for.

35 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:48:34pm

re: #31 laZardo

Stability under the rebels means Europe gets its oil with less stain on their conscience than getting oil from Gaddafi.

The oil is Europe's concern, not ours. At any time, we could have stepped back and said we were not going to take part in NATO's operations. We're not taking the risk, the rebels are. We're not doing the fighting, the rebels are. We are assisting them, whether it be through air power, through arms, or through diplomatic recognition. But without the rebels, Gaddafi would still be sitting pretty.

36 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:48:53pm

re: #30 Idle Drifter

OK, we had no real risk except aircraft and perhaps maybe some Spec.Ops. on the ground if they ever confirm it. There's always the long transitional phase and the instability involved.

10 years in Afghanistan, 8 in Iraq. Stability!

37 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:49:38pm

re: #33 SpaceJesus

Gaddafi is on

[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

Heh. It's nice to hear the panic in his voice.

38 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:49:43pm

re: #36 laZardo

10 years in Afghanistan, 8 in Iraq. Stability!

I vote that this is Europe's stabilizing turn.

39 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:49:43pm

Gaddafi's ranting like a madman on AJ.

40 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:49:57pm

re: #36 laZardo

10 years in Afghanistan, 8 in Iraq. Stability!

So stability now trumps freedom and liberty? We care not for how oppressed people are, so long as the spice flows?

41 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:50:22pm

re: #36 laZardo

10 years in Afghanistan, 8 in Iraq. Stability!

Is there any reason we can't say, hey we kept him from slaughtering you, call us if you need anything, but we're going home.

42 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:50:29pm

re: #37 Killgore Trout

he is totally bananas atm

43 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:51:06pm

re: #40 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

So stability now trumps freedom and liberty? We care not for how oppressed people are, so long as the spice flows?

Pretty much. That's been the policy for the last 50 years. I shouldn't expect it to change much after this.

Look no further than Bahrain for an example.

44 Nervous Norvous  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:51:21pm

re: #42 SpaceJesus

he is totally bananas atm

I prefer the term apeshit, which is pretty much the same thing if you think about it.

45 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:51:27pm

re: #33 SpaceJesus

Gaddafi is on

[Link: english.aljazeera.net...]

It was alright, but I preferred it in the original German.

/

46 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:52:39pm

re: #36 laZardo

10 years in Afghanistan, 8 in Iraq. Stability!

Germany and Japan since 1945.
Cuba since 1898.
South Korea since 1950 and the war is technically still on.
Lesson: Results may vary.

47 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:53:59pm

re: #46 Idle Drifter

um, pretty sure none of those are anything like afghanistan

48 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:54:00pm

re: #1 laZardo

Getting rid of the dictator, in case NATO and the US haven't learned it by now, is always the easy part. This is gonna backfire for sure.

Truly bizarre that the terrorist supporting dictator, who Reagan tried to kill, is now viewed as a bulwark against terrorism by the Right.

49 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:54:07pm

re: #43 laZardo

Pretty much. That's been the policy for the last 50 years. I shouldn't expect it to change much after this.

Look no further than Bahrain for an example.

It's a policy that put the Shah in power, and we all know how well that turned out for us. As well as the policy that bankrolled Saddam, up until the Soviet Union fell and we suddenly cared about dictators gassing their own people.

50 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:54:15pm

re: #46 Idle Drifter

Germany and Japan since 1945.
Cuba since 1898.
South Korea since 1950 and the war is technically still on.
Lesson: Results may vary.

We've been bogged down in a quagmire since the Louisiana Purchase.

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:55:18pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

We've been bogged down in a quagmire since the Louisiana Purchase.

Wait...you're blaming Jefferson?

52 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:55:47pm

has there been any improvement in egypt, or has the dictator only been replaced by a faceless military junta?

53 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:56:09pm

re: #51 EmmmieG

Wait...you're blaming Jefferson?

Socialist Warmongering Tyrant!

54 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:56:10pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

We've been bogged down in a quagmire since the Louisiana Purchase.

re: #51 EmmmieG

Wait...you're blaming Jefferson?

Don't even get me started on Seward's Folly.

55 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:56:41pm

re: #49 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It's a policy that put the Shah in power, and we all know how well that turned out for us. As well as the policy that bankrolled Saddam, up until the Soviet Union fell and we suddenly cared about dictators gassing their own people.

We now prefer they use conventional ammunition instead.

56 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:57:18pm

re: #51 EmmmieG

Wait...you're blaming Jefferson?

The Louisiana Purchase was a blatant violation of the 10th Amendment!

57 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:57:38pm

re: #54 Decatur Deb

re: #51 EmmmieG

Don't even get me started on Seward's Folly.

when will our leaders wake up to the threat of our communist neighbor to the north??!11?

58 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:58:06pm

re: #52 engineer dog

has there been any improvement in egypt, or has the dictator only been replaced by a faceless military junta?

It's still good to churn your Jefe's periodically.

59 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:58:37pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

um, pretty sure none of those are anything like afghanistan

Or Iraq.

Or Libya.

Or Bahrain.

60 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:58:43pm

What about Hawaii? Anyone want to whine about Hawaii?

Ukeleles are clearly un-American.

61 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:58:46pm

re: #18 Idle Drifter

So are we on 72 hour rule until we get a confirmation?

Might not take that long. Things are moving *so* damn fast.

62 aagcobb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 2:59:56pm

re: #60 EmmmieG

What about Hawaii? Anyone want to whine about Hawaii?

Ukeleles are clearly un-American.

You mean the so-called birthplace of the seekrit mooslum usurper from Kenya?

63 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:00:56pm

re: #55 laZardo

We now prefer they use conventional ammunition instead.

Are you suggesting we do the fighting for the rebels? Or should we help the dictators in putting the rebellions down because we prefer the dictators being in power?

64 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:01:03pm
Saadi is now confirmed captured. 3 sons, Mohammad surrendered, Said and Saadi captured. held in secret location by FF
65 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:01:54pm

Gaddafi is saying that Al Qaeda is in charge of NATO at present

66 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:02:01pm

re: #62 aagcobb

You mean the so-called birthplace of the seekrit mooslum usurper from Kenya?

I prefer to think of the President as 'Kamehameha's Revenge'.

67 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:02:17pm

re: #63 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Are you suggesting we do the fighting for the rebels? Or should we help the dictators in putting the rebellions down because we prefer the dictators being in power?

That depends. Which will bring more 'stability?'

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:02:18pm

re: #65 SpaceJesus

Gaddafi is saying that Al Qaeda is in charge of NATO at present

Don't be silly. The Cloud Elders are in charge of NATO.

69 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:02:56pm

YES!!

Saadi and Saif al Islam Qaddafi have been captured, along with Muhammad Qaddafi, who surrendered.

I cannot tell you how happy I am!

70 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:03:08pm

re: #60 EmmmieG

What about Hawaii? Anyone want to whine about Hawaii?

Ukeleles are clearly un-American.

It's where Obama grew up, have at it!

71 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:03:36pm

re: #69 ProLifeLiberal

YES!!

Saadi and Saif al Islam Qaddafi have been captured, along with Muhammad Qaddafi, who surrendered.

I cannot tell you how happy I am!

The firing squad has already been prepared.

72 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:03:45pm

re: #69 ProLifeLiberal
I hope you are right.

73 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:04:08pm

re: #71 laZardo

Prepare for my the world's smallest violin.

74 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:04:44pm

re: #47 SpaceJesus

um, pretty sure none of those are anything like afghanistan

Yeah, we don't have the ultra high body count of military and civilian deaths of those wars. Had we won Vietnam we'd still be there too. I'm not under delusions, once we leave Afghanistan they'll revert to tribal warfare like they had since Alexander the Great. We'll continue to send men and material to the godforsaken place from time to time to deal with whatever assholes sticks his or their up long enough to think he can train terrorists and build a base of operations and possible launch worldwide terror campaigns. Iraq is salvageable as is Libya should those country's pull their act together otherwise we'll be sending in the drones. Unlike Iraq, Libya's citizenry acted on their own and then asked for help. So they have a chance to succeed.

75 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:04:46pm

re: #67 laZardo

That depends. Which will bring more 'stability?'

Stability's not my concern. It comes with time, as new governments come to power and their support from the people increases. If stability was the key concern, then we'd have never overthrown King George's rule.

76 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:05:22pm

::: trying to contact Issac Stern to play the violin for the event :::

77 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:05:23pm

re: #72 PhillyPretzel

Al Jazeera just confirmed the surrender of Muhammad al-Qaddafi:

AJELive AJELive
Al Jazeera has learnt that Gaddafi's eldest son Mohammed has surrendered - aje.me/jMZYMN #Libya #Tripoli #Gaddafi

78 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:06:35pm

To the Hague!

79 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:07:21pm

Muammar futures are going cheap on Intrade.

80 jaunte  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:08:12pm

re: #60 EmmmieG

What about Hawaii? Anyone want to whine about Hawaii?

Ukeleles are clearly un-American.

The World's Smallest Playable Ukulele

81 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:08:55pm

re: #77 ProLifeLiberal

Al Jazeera just confirmed the surrender of Muhammad al-Qaddafi:

Outstanding! Wish he done it sooner but this outstanding news!

82 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:10:04pm

Another piece of history seen in real time.

83 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:11:32pm

re: #81 Idle Drifter

He has an interesting history.

I will be here the rest of the night for developments.

84 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:12:20pm

CNN has this as breaking news!

85 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:13:30pm

re: #75 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Stability's not my concern. It comes with time, as new governments come to power and their support from the people increases. If stability was the key concern, then we'd have never overthrown King George's rule.

Or with force.

86 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:14:17pm

Gaddafi back on again

87 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:15:56pm

re: #81 Idle Drifter

Outstanding! Wish he done it sooner but this outstanding news!

That's the son, not Big Mo.

88 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:16:01pm

I can't wait for the walkthrough of his wardrobe closet. It's probably a whole wing of a mansion.

89 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:16:45pm

any word on his elite female guard? they still fighting it out?

90 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:16:50pm

Agents of imperialism!!! Drink!!

91 Political Atheist  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:17:00pm

re: #84 ProLifeLiberal

CNN has this as breaking news!

Kudos to you for staying on this, and with your pages. Nice work!!

92 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:17:09pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

Al Jazeera is showing video of people stepping on a poster of Gaddafi while airing the man himself's speech. Nice juxtaposition.

93 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:17:10pm

re: #88 Charles

I can't wait for the walkthrough of his wardrobe closet. It's probably a whole wing of a mansion.

1/4 of which are probably shoes.

94 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:17:46pm

Some of the twitter comments are hilarious...

Somewhere in Syria, a dictator just wet his bed... #Gaddafi

"Rats on acid" is what #Gaddafi called the revolutionaries. Who's trippin' now muthafuka? #Libya

I think I heard someone at the back of the crowd trying to organise a conga line. All he's getting is the Macarena. #Libya #Gaddafi

Has nobody yet seen George Galloway crying in a corner, nostalgically remembering #Gaddafi's strength, courage and indefatigability? #libya

I would like to add to Twitter rumors about #Gaddafi, and report he has been found in women's clothes singing showtunes from "Chicago".

95 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:17:48pm

re: #90 Cannadian Club Akbar
L'Chaim.

96 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:18:22pm

re: #85 laZardo

Or with force.

True enough. But I'd rather the force be used to create a government supported by the people, rather than used to prop up our favored strong man.

97 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:18:56pm

re: #93 laZardo

1/4 of which are probably shoes.

Half Imelda Marcos, half Liberace.

98 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:19:14pm

re: #94 NJDhockeyfan

The 2nd and 5th ones are awesome.

I'm saving those.

CNN confirms the capture of Saif al-Islam al-Qaddafi.

99 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:19:25pm

re: #87 austin_blue

That's the son, not Big Mo.

FFFFFFFuck.

100 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:19:40pm

hopefully assad is next, followed closely by the iranian tyrants

101 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:20:10pm

re: #96 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

True enough. But I'd rather the force be used to create a government supported by the people, rather than used to prop up our favored strong man.

More often than not, the kind of government "supported by the people" happen to go against our "interests."

102 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:20:22pm

re: #100 _RememberTonyC
That would be nice.

103 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:21:04pm

re: #100 _RememberTonyC

hopefully assad is next, followed closely by the iranian tyrants

Assad has probably shit his pants a few times already.

104 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:21:24pm

Libya was in equilibrium before the rebels took the opportunity given them by the events in Egypt. They and NATO have upset that equilibrium. The Libyan society will suffer in the disequilibrium as it seeks a new equilibrium, but a new equilibrium will eventually be reached.

This process is common throughout human history.

It's only been recently that western society has recognized interference in other societies has negative consequences for more that the upset society. I'm actually surprised NATO waited until the rebels asked for help.

It would be nice if eventually we avoided interfering unless specifically requested to do so.

105 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:21:31pm

re: #102 PhillyPretzel

That would be nice.

with nasrallah, et al in the "on deck" circle!

106 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:22:32pm
zaidbenjamin Zaid Benjamin
Breaking: Moustafa Abdel Jaleel is about to speek to Libyan People - my interview with Mahmoud Shamam NTC Spox #libya #Gaddafi #Tripoli
107 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:22:49pm

re: #101 laZardo

More often than not, the kind of government "supported by the people" happen to go against our "interests."

Are our interests the deciding factor in international events? How do we claim to believe in freedom, liberty, or democracy when we deny all three in the pursuit of our own enrichment?

108 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:23:31pm

There are some reports the Muammar has fled to Algeria.

109 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:23:36pm

Later all. Food is calling my name.

110 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:25:17pm

re: #98 ProLifeLiberal

The 2nd and 5th ones are awesome.

I'm saving those.

CNN confirms the capture of Saif al-Islam al-Qaddafi.

Here's another one...

#gaddafi if having his last ten minutes of Scarface moment. Turns out the world is not in fact his.

111 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:25:18pm

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

There are some reports the Muammar has fled to Algeria.

supposedly his recent phone call, ostensibly from tripoli was actually from a calling area in algeria

112 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:26:02pm

man, those gadaffi rugs are pretty strong

113 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:27:06pm

re: #109 Idle Drifter

Later all. Food is calling my name.

Do you keep them in the basement, Hannibal?

114 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:27:42pm

re: #107 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Are our interests the deciding factor in international events? How do we claim to believe in freedom, liberty, or democracy when we deny all three in the pursuit of our own enrichment?

Often times, yes. And as for how, well... that's just what we've been doing since 1946. This is no different.

115 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:27:48pm

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

There are some reports the Muammar has fled to Algeria.

Rat running from a sinking ship.

116 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:29:03pm

re: #115 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

We got an odd report:

dovenews Libyan
BREAKING! 2 S African planes are in #Tripoli airport.

117 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:30:09pm

re: #116 ProLifeLiberal

how'd they get through the no-fly zone?

118 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:30:20pm

re: #116 ProLifeLiberal

There is a great deal of speculation about the planes, but if Gaddafi is trying to leave it seems he left it a bit late...

119 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:30:20pm

re: #116 ProLifeLiberal

We got an odd report:

I just read the same thing.

two Mzantsi planes in Tripoli, #Gaddafi might become your neighbour @AJEnglish reporting

120 Off Colfax  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:30:25pm

re: #108 ProLifeLiberal

There are some reports the Muammar has fled to Algeria.

Same report also being featured on Fox News.

121 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:30:43pm

Hazzah! May the regime to come after him be far better for the people of Lybia and the world in general than the one that came before.

And once more to those who ask if we should get involved in foreign revolutions like this I ask, were they American ships off the shore at Yorktown?

122 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:31:08pm

re: #120 Off Colfax

Yes, I admit that I have flitted to that channel.

MSNBC still isn't covering it.

123 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:31:19pm

re: #4 engineer dog

freeper thread on "Gadhafi falls"

More bad news. How much more can we take?

Carter’s foreign policy legacy was giving rise to the hate-filled terrorist state of Iran. It looks like Obama’s legacy will be giving rise to half a dozen more of them.

Wonderful. Now we can expect Libya to be attacking Israel as well. Nice going Obama.

Traitors.

124 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:31:21pm
125 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:31:38pm

re: #121 jamesfirecat

Hazzah! May the regime to come after him be far better for the people of Lybia and the world in general than the one that came before.

And once more to those who ask if we should get involved in foreign revolutions like this I ask, were they American ships off the shore at Yorktown?

The French did it to spite the Brits. Empires vs empires.

126 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:31:57pm

re: #114 laZardo

Often times, yes. And as for how, well... that's just what we've been doing since 1946. This is no different.

Sorry, but it's that sort of thinking that has given rise to men like OBL and groups like Al-Q. People angry with the regimes we've supported, seeing us as the reason why they are oppressed and dirt poor.

127 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:32:01pm

Gaddafi tells Libyans to save Tripoli from rebels

"It is the obligation of all Libyans. It is a question of life or death," he said.

While he runs away.

128 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:33:02pm

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan
Spot oil: $82 a barrel

129 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:33:20pm

FMCNL FMC the Netherlands

Monitoring Libyan Airspace, but no sign of South African Air Force or Airliners heading Tripoli
130 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:33:33pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No, no-somewhere in there he mentions that he is there, among them, fighting (presumably in spirit...) Right.

131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:33:51pm

Dear Mr. Gaddafi:

There is an easy way out.

Pistol in the bureau.

Sincerely;

132 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:33:56pm

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

This is good news.

Oil Prices Should Fall With Gadhafi Overthrow

I could really use a bump in the stock market.

133 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:01pm

re: #101 laZardo

More often than not, the kind of government "supported by the people" happen to go against our "interests."

Tough.

134 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:02pm

re: #126 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Sorry, but it's that sort of thinking that has given rise to men like OBL and groups like Al-Q. People angry with the regimes we've supported, seeing us as the reason why they are oppressed and dirt poor.

Well, in a way we are. Duh.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:06pm

Is this really Mo's information minister?

LibyaInfoMinst Muhammed al-Sahaf
#gaddafi just called me from the airport, I shall be back shortly! Am not boarding plane to South Africa. We shall fight to the last man!

136 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:09pm

re: #124 NJDhockeyfan

This is good news.

Oil Prices Should Fall With Gadhafi Overthrow

That happens, then the Right's gonna blow a collective gasket. It would run totally counter to the "over-regulation + high taxes = high oil prices" mantra. And lower oil prices might actually help ease pressure on the economy, spurring some level of recovery.

Of course, that's rather wishful thinking at this point.

137 Off Colfax  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:35pm

re: #122 ProLifeLiberal

Nope. MSNBC is still doing their True Crime Porn block of Caught On Camera. And CNN flipped to the Future Disaster Porn of TS Irene getting ready to bitchslap Puerto Rico.

FOX now reporting the BBC has stated Qaddafi is in Algeria.

138 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:42pm

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

139 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:52pm

re: #131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dear Mr. Gaddafi:

There is an easy way out.

Pistol in the bureau.

Sincerely; Adolph H

FIFY

140 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:34:57pm

re: #130 calochortus

No, no-somewhere in there he mentions that he is there, among them, fighting (presumably in spirit...) Right.

"You guys go ahead...No, I'm right behind you...really."

141 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:35:08pm

re: #123 Sergey Romanov

In fairness to the Freepers, that is not the unanimous opinion. A quick skim of the comments showed far more diversity of opinion than is usual over there.

142 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:35:21pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

Yes

143 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:35:52pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

Q'Daffy

144 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:36:08pm

re: #138 The Yankee
All of them. Actually what ever you prefer.

145 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:36:19pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

We will find out when his tombstone is carved out.

146 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:36:37pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?


It's Mo or "The Colonel."

147 Off Colfax  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:36:49pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

There are so many different spellings, I don't think that even outside of Libya could tell you which one is correct. Just keep it phonetic and it'll be close enough for bobblehead work.

148 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:36:55pm

re: #137 Off Colfax

To be fair to CNN, a Tropical System smacking a chunk of the US is important.

All of us here remember Katrina, Rita, Wilma, and Ike.

Not to mention Charley, Frances, Ivan, and Jeanne.

149 TedStriker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:37:17pm

re: #127 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gaddafi tells Libyans to save Tripoli from rebels

While he runs away.

I can't help but think of the "Brave Sir Robin" bit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

150 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:37:17pm

re: #145 NJDhockeyfan

Not really, it will presumably be in Arabic.

151 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:37:20pm

I do prefer the Qaddafi since that is a key on my keyboard that I hardly get to use. My pinky needs the exercise.

152 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:37:23pm

@fieldproducer on twitter

"RT @SultanAlQassemi Breaking Al Arabiya: Libyan Embassy in Algeria announces its loyalty to the Libyan Revolutionaries"

153 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:38:02pm

re: #152 SpaceJesus

@fieldproducer on twitter

"RT @SultanAlQassemi Breaking Al Arabiya: Libyan Embassy in Algeria announces its loyalty to the Libyan Revolutionaries"

"Shit, new management!"

154 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:38:05pm

re: #152 SpaceJesus

Uh oh. Run away! Run away!

155 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:38:26pm

re: #149 talon_262

I can't help but think of the "Brave Sir Robin" bit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

[Video]

Perhaps if he runs away more, he can confuse the rebels.

156 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:38:30pm

Haha, I hope he fled to Algeria

157 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:38:38pm

re: #151 The Yankee

Good point, but with luck we won't need to be typing it at all soon.

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:39:42pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

159 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:39:55pm

re: #152 SpaceJesus

@fieldproducer on twitter

"RT @SultanAlQassemi Breaking Al Arabiya: Libyan Embassy in Algeria announces its loyalty to the Libyan Revolutionaries"

"Guys..open the doors...Guys, this isn't funny any more."

160 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:39:58pm

I see the nabobs of negativity are out...idealists are so easily disappointed

161 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:40:32pm

What we need is some massive random speculation to give future history some colour.

162 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:40:38pm

Just saw this:

2011feb17 Tweeting Tripoli
Congratulations everyone. Libya is finally free. August 21st 2011. And it's my son's 9th birthday today. Oh I could cry right now.

:')

Happy tears.

163 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:20pm

Film out of Libya is amazing.. Historic day

164 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:25pm

Wasn't Algeria where this entire over throw your local government thing all began?

165 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:35pm

re: #161 b_sharp

What we need is some massive random speculation to give future history some colour.

we have enough massive random speculation here now

166 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:35pm

I hope nothing bad happens to Daffy. But if something bad does happen, I hope the Pan Am bomber is sitting on his lap when it does.

167 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:43pm

re: #161 b_sharp

What we need is some massive random speculation to give future history some colour.

Qadaffi opens the Ark of the Covenant, rebels melt.

168 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:53pm

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

169 kirkspencer  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:41:55pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

You're dealing with trying to use the roman alphabet to phonetically spell something that is outside it's area of competence.

Same problem with Russian, any Chinese, Korean...

170 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:42:14pm

re: #164 The Yankee

Wasn't Algeria where this entire over throw your local government thing all began?

Tunisia.

171 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:42:19pm

re: #164 The Yankee

Nope, that was Tunisia.

Algeria's Government is still standing, and was supporting the Qaddafi Regime, with supplies and (allegedly) other things.

172 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:42:36pm

re: #167 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Qadaffi opens the Ark of the Covenant, rebels melt.

I like it.

Can we also throw in a sub?

173 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:42:40pm

re: #164 The Yankee

Wasn't Algeria where this entire over throw your local government thing all began?

Tunisia.

174 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:42:42pm

re: #168 laZardo

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

NATO will be heartbroken I'm sure

175 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:42:55pm

re: #125 laZardo

The French did it to spite the Brits. Empires vs empires.

Doesn't matter.

Even we didn't manage to win our revolution all on our own, why should we expect other nations to?

176 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:43:04pm

re: #169 kirkspencer

You're dealing with trying to use the roman alphabet to phonetically spell something that is outside it's area of competence.

Same problem with Russian, any Chinese, Korean...

Russian is not half bad in that regard.

177 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:43:07pm

re: #171 ProLifeLiberal

Nope, that was Tunisia.

Algeria's Government is still standing, and was supporting the Qaddafi Regime, with supplies and (allegedly) other things.


Still, doesn't look like it did them much good.

178 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:43:31pm

Earlier one reporter in Libya from Fox said the NTC had made sure all the gov't bureaucrats would remain in place for now. That should help in getting back to some kind of order.

179 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:43:35pm

re: #161 b_sharp

What we need is some massive random speculation to give future history some colour.

we could book some time on the stanford massive random speculation accumulator

180 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:01pm

re: #168 laZardo

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

Yes, it's better to let a murderous tyrant continue to perform genocide instead of helping get rid of the asshole.
//

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:02pm

re: #168 laZardo

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

What's wrong with regime change as a principle?

182 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:07pm

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

Russian is not half bad in that regard.

Ahh, what do you know...

183 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:12pm

re: #176 Sergey Romanov

Russian is not half bad in that regard.

Served the Tsar and Czarina well.

184 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:29pm

re: #172 b_sharp

I like it.

Can we also throw in a sub?

Does the Muslim Brotherhood's secret underwater base in the Mediterranean count?

185 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:36pm

Gaddafi might end up in Angola or Zimbabwe? (According to Al Jazeera) What a great pair of places to retire...

186 TedStriker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:44:39pm

re: #172 b_sharp

I like it.

Can we also throw in a sub?

And Karen Black in her Animal House/Raiders of the Lost Ark prime...

187 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:45:01pm

re: #181 Sergey Romanov

What's wrong with regime change as a principle?

Think of it as 'term limits'.

188 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:45:03pm

re: #177 Dark_Falcon

This could be a real quick example of backlash (I forget the actual term).

189 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:45:18pm

re: #168 laZardo

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

Too bad. It's a done deal. And it was done without a Western invasion. This is as if we really *did* support the Shia in Iraq after Desert Storm.

190 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:45:34pm

re: #179 engineer dog

we could book some time on the stanford massive random speculation accumulator

And wait for six month? I don't think we can wait that long. Damn social networks have wrecked well thought out speculation.

191 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:45:50pm

re: #168 laZardo

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

I don't think you can compare the two. The threat of Gaddafi's forces was imminent, we had to act. If NATO had not there would have been a massacre in Benghazi.

If you want a comparison to Iraq, use 1991 instead of 2003. Supporting the overthrow of Gaddafi is akin to what we should have done to Hussein back then.

192 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:46:18pm

re: #185 calochortus

Gaddafi might end up in Angola or Zimbabwe? (According to Al Jazeera) What a great pair of places to retire...

Thing is, if he does flee, it's with our consent. With the rebels all around him, while NATO controls the sea and air, any retreat into exile will have been because we allowed it.

193 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:46:37pm

re: #190 b_sharp

And wait for six month? I don't think we can wait that long. Damn social networks have wrecked well thought out speculation.

You ever notice how conspiracy theories nowadays don't seem as well thought out or as elaborate as they used to be?

I find that suspicious.

194 justaminute  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:46:38pm

My husband and other Iranian Americans don't think anything will change in Iran until Syria falls then they will put full force on the people to keep them in line. But they will be pretty alone in the region if Assad goes down.

We have friends and family departing Iran and returning home for their kids to go back to school. It will interesting what they have to say. My husband and I and another couple are supposed to go to Iran for Persian New Year in March. That will be interesting but so far everyone that has gone there over the Summer says nothing has changed or any crackdowns but they are mostly in Tehran and other large cities.

This has been an interesting time. My son is getting investigated for his top secret security clearance that mean the family is being investigated. So far they have talked to our employees at the restaurant. That was when we were out of town. We heard that they are coming for our neighbors next. I guess our friends are after that then us. Sounds interesting. I wonder if they come in March and we are gone to Iran what they will think? This is going to be fun. They knew since day one we had family there. My son has never kept that a secret and he has already be assigned.

195 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:46:42pm

re: #183 Decatur Deb

Served the Tsar and Czarina well.

"czar" is simply an incorrect spelling that was 'historicized'. Tsar is correct.

196 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:46:44pm

re: #168 laZardo

I never liked Gaddafi. But I cannot in good conscience give my support to the most blatant example of regime change since Saddam got kicked out.

BBL Lunch.

With Sadam /Iraq regime change came from outside as the nation was stable (despotic but stable) until we acted.

That is a HUGE difference for me and why I support Lybia but not Iraq.

197 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:47:24pm

re: #193 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You ever notice how conspiracy theories nowadays don't seem as well thought out or as elaborate as they used to be?

I find that suspicious.

Heh.

198 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:47:40pm

Sky News live feed is also good:

[Link: go.sky.com...]

199 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:47:54pm

re: #192 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thing is, if he does flee, it's with our consent. With the rebels all around him, while NATO controls the sea and air, any retreat into exile will have been because we allowed it.

it would be wrong to allow it...he's a Libyan and responsible to and for his people...if they want to kill him, fine with me

200 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:48:00pm

re: #178 blueraven

Earlier one reporter in Libya from Fox said the NTC had made sure all the gov't bureaucrats would remain in place for now. That should help in getting back to some kind of order.

Smart move. Trying to disband the government entirely only leads to chaos. Most parts of the bureaucracy weren't involved in atrocities, so leaving them in place is the smart play. But they should be subject to strong oversight from here on out to remove corruption.

201 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:48:43pm

Shit, my desktop broke. I got it back up, but it's on crutches.

I'm backing everything up and ordering a new one.

202 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:48:48pm

re: #192 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thing is, if he does flee, it's with our consent. With the rebels all around him, while NATO controls the sea and air, any retreat into exile will have been because we allowed it.

That is true.

The other thing that is striking is that he is apparently far more worried about his own skin than his sons'. What a great dad.

203 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:48:53pm

re: #185 calochortus

Mugabe and Gadaffi sounds like a reality show or sitcom in the making

204 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:49:00pm

re: #196 jamesfirecat

With Sadam /Iraq regime change came from outside as the nation was stable (despotic but stable) until we acted.

That is a HUGE difference for me and why I support Lybia but not Iraq.

We technically didn't invade Afghanistan during the Soviet war, but we still backed "our people" against their "regime."

205 b_sharp  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:49:02pm

BBL.

206 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:49:24pm

re: #181 Sergey Romanov

What's wrong with regime change as a principle?

I don't support the idea that America gets to huge who stays in power and who gets kicked out, it sets too many bad president. I liked it better when America didn't start wars, just finish them.

207 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:49:34pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Mugabe and Gadaffi sounds like a reality show or sitcom in the making

What a creepy show that would be.

208 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:49:40pm

re: #199 albusteve

it would be wrong to allow it...he's a Libyan and responsible to and for his people...if they want to kill him, fine with me

Agreed. Allowing him to flee into exile right now would negate a lot of the good will built up between us and the rebel leadership. If his fate is to be decided, it'd by the Libyan people, not by foreign leaders.

209 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:49:50pm

re: #201 Alouette
I hope you can backup everything you want to save.

210 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:50:08pm

re: #204 laZardo

We technically didn't invade Afghanistan during the Soviet war, but we still backed "our people" against their "regime."

what's wrong with that?

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:50:37pm

re: #183 Decatur Deb

PS: "tsarina" is not a Russian word at all, but rather a sort of a hideous hybrid. The word is "tsaritsa".

212 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:50:49pm

somebody in the square is waving a french flag

213 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:51:06pm

re: #202 calochortus

That is true.

The other thing that is striking is that he is apparently far more worried about his own skin than his sons'. What a great dad.

"Sorry kids, but daddy's gotta book. I'll send you a postcard!"

214 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:51:11pm

re: #210 albusteve

what's wrong with that?

Let's see...perpetuated the corruption of the ISI, built the foundation for Al-Q...

215 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:51:49pm

Ok so conflicts that Obama got us involved in are. Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, and Ethiopia. And of all of those we are apparently done with Pakistan (because I don't think they are going to let us drop any more bombs over there) and Libya? And we are still involved in Iraq and Afghanistan?

216 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:52:31pm

re: #211 Sergey Romanov

PS: "tsarina" is not a Russian word at all, but rather a sort of a hideous hybrid. The word is "tsaritsa".

next you're gonna tell me borsch is not a fast sports car

217 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:52:36pm

re: #212 SpaceJesus

and now a canadian one. what the hell

218 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:52:50pm

re: #206 jamesfirecat

Not an answer to my question tho. Is external regime change never necessary or at least desirable?

219 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:52:50pm
RT @GhadaYemen: AlJazeera reporter from South Africa, says either Angola or Zimbabwe might take #Gaddafi since SA is signatory to ICC #Libya

Angola or Zimbabwe will soon be accepted on the UN Human Rights Council.

220 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:53:15pm

YES!!!!!!

Sky says Qaddafi has been detained!!

221 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:53:49pm

re: #169 kirkspencer

You're dealing with trying to use the roman alphabet to phonetically spell something that is outside it's area of competence.

Same problem with Russian, any Chinese, Korean...

the arabic alphabet has two different letters for two different pronunciations of the sound we represent as 'k', and the same for the sound, not present in english but found in languages like hebrew and german, as in the word "chutzpah"

[Link: www.omniglot.com...]

also, keep in mind that even in hochdeutsch the sound spelled "-ch-" has two different pronunciations depending on context. and americans are not generally aware that they use two different pronunciations of the sound spelled as "-th-" - a 'voiced' version for the word "the", and an 'unvoiced' one for the word "theatre"

222 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:53:50pm

re: #220 ProLifeLiberal

I hope its true.

223 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:53:56pm

re: #206 jamesfirecat

I don't support the idea that America gets to huge who stays in power and who gets kicked out, it sets too many bad precedents. I liked it better when America didn't start wars, just finish them.

PIYF

224 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:54:39pm

WSJ Dispatch: [Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

225 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:55:22pm

re: #214 laZardo

Let's see...perpetuated the corruption of the ISI, built the foundation for Al-Q...

nothing ventured, nothing gained lad...everything does not turn out the way you plan, but inspiring freedom and personal liberty is a role we have taken and that's never a bad thing....the US provides opportunity

226 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:55:26pm

re: #217 SpaceJesus

and now a canadian one. what the hell


Canada expels Libya diplomats and freezes bank accounts

227 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:55:42pm

re: #212 SpaceJesus

somebody in the square is waving a french flag

They're surrendering?

///!

228 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:55:54pm
washingtonpost The Washington Post
Intel sources: Gaddafi’s family has been moving money, assets out of #Libya over past 5 days wapo.st/rhngts
229 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:56:15pm

re: #227 JasonA

They're surrendering?

///!

Bwahahahaha!

230 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:56:24pm

re: #218 Sergey Romanov

Not an answer to my question tho. Is external regime change never necessary or at least desirable?

I think that there are doubtlessly situations where external regime change are desirable... situations where its necessary... once again, yes for example I think in cases of state sponsored genocide that regime change is probably necessary or at least STRONGLY DESIRABLE.

That said... I think that there needs to be an external arbiter of when the tanks should roll out/planes should fly for the sake of overthrowing a regime in a foreign nation that is not actively hostile to any of its neighbors. I'm comfortable using the UN for that purpose at the moment because if nothing else it seems to err on the side of caution...

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:56:46pm

re: #227 JasonA

They're surrendering?

///!

And eating cheese!

232 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:57:43pm

re: #227 JasonA

They're surrendering?

///!

No no, you're thinking of the old French flag. You know, a white star on a white background.

No, surprisingly, the French actually had balls this time around. I've heard a lot of good things about their support of the no-fly zone and air strikes.

233 SpaceJesus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:57:43pm

Sky News chyron: "Reuters: ICC spokeswoman says has confirmation Gaddafi has been detained."


which one is this?

234 calochortus  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:57:56pm

Gaddafi says all the tribes are marching towards Tripoli. Apparently they want to participate in the celebration?

235 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:58:26pm

re: #230 jamesfirecat

I think that there are doubtlessly situations where external regime change are desirable... situations where its necessary... once again, yes for example I think in cases of state sponsored genocide that regime change is probably necessary or at least STRONGLY DESIRABLE.

That said... I think that there needs to be an external arbiter of when the tanks should roll out/planes should fly for the sake of overthrowing a regime in a foreign nation that is not actively hostile to any of its neighbors. I'm comfortable using the UN for that purpose at the moment because if nothing else it seems to err on the side of caution...

the UN?
bwahahaha....please, you're KILLING me

236 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:58:27pm

re: #232 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No no, you're thinking of the old French flag. You know, a white star on a white background.

No, surprisingly, the French actually had balls this time around. I've heard a lot of good things about their support of the no-fly zone and air strikes.

I know, I know. It was too good of an opening to pass up.

237 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:58:37pm

everytime i hear that the ghaddafi regime is crumbling i get the urge to eat a scone

238 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:58:38pm

re: #233 SpaceJesus

Sky News chyron: "Reuters: ICC spokeswoman says has confirmation Gaddafi has been detained."

which one is this?

Good question. If it's Mo, then his ass is grass. Either the Libyan people will execute him or he'll spend the rest of his life rotting in a cell as he awaits his trial with the ICC.

239 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:58:44pm

re: #233 SpaceJesus
check CNN front page.

240 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:59:37pm

re: #236 JasonA

I know, I know. It was too good of an opening to pass up.

Not to worry, it was my first temptation as well. But I feel that, in light of their recent actions, the French deserve a break...for now.

241 Stanghazi  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 3:59:42pm

Listened to Lu Lu (Lourdes Garcia Navarro) today on NPR. She is right there. Just got home, getting up to date.

242 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:00:11pm

re: #238 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

It'll take them 50 years to read off the charges alone.

243 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:00:48pm

It's going to be a bad day to be a black guy in Tripoli, I believe.

244 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:01:16pm

re: #242 ProLifeLiberal

It'll take them 50 years to read off the charges alone.

And another 50 for him to become lucid enough to enter a plea.

245 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:01:35pm

re: #240 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Not to worry, it was my first temptation as well. But I feel that, in light of their recent actions, the French deserve a break...for now.

To quote Carlin

"I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately."

246 Off Colfax  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:01:35pm

re: #238 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Good question. If it's Mo, then his ass is grass. Either the Libyan people will execute him or he'll spend the rest of his life rotting in a cell as he awaits his trial with the ICC.

Can't find a link yet, but I'm understanding that it is Ol' Mo. Further confirmations about Saif al-Islam al-Qaddafi coming through.

247 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:01:57pm

re: #230 jamesfirecat

I think that there are doubtlessly situations where external regime change are desirable... situations where its necessary... once again, yes for example I think in cases of state sponsored genocide that regime change is probably necessary or at least STRONGLY DESIRABLE.

That said... I think that there needs to be an external arbiter of when the tanks should roll out/planes should fly for the sake of overthrowing a regime in a foreign nation that is not actively hostile to any of its neighbors. I'm comfortable using the UN for that purpose at the moment because if nothing else it seems to err on the side of caution...

Agreed. Lazardo's statement as it was written is against regime change as such.

Also it doesn't seem as if NATO is acting outside of the boundaries of UN resolution.

PS: the word "genocide" is thrown around these days as a synonym to mass murder, which it isn't. Kaddafi wasn't about to commit genocide, he was about to massacre a lot of people, which is why his regime needed some huge change.

248 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:01:58pm

re: #233 SpaceJesus

Sky News chyron: "Reuters: ICC spokeswoman says has confirmation Gaddafi has been detained."

which one is this?

Good question.


Reuters reporting ICC spokesman confirming #Gaddafi has been detained, but it is not clear which #Gaddafi is being referenced.
249 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:02:35pm

And now I'm wondering what this means for Syria.

250 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:02:47pm

re: #248 NJDhockeyfan

Sky is saying Saif-al-Islam.

He'll get to the Hague.

251 Off Colfax  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:03:26pm

re: #249 JasonA

And now I'm wondering what this means for Syria.

It means that all the bombs slated for future Tripoli sorties could now be sent to the Eastern Med.

252 Kragar  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:04:04pm

re: #249 JasonA

And now I'm wondering what this means for Syria.

Syrian president dismisses calls for him to step down as 'worthless'

253 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:04:16pm

re: #250 ProLifeLiberal

I want Sky and BBC on Basic Cable.

Al Jazeera English would be cool too.

254 jamesfirecat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:04:39pm

re: #247 Sergey Romanov

Agreed. Lazardo's statement as it was written is against regime change as such.

Also it doesn't seem as if NATO is acting outside of the boundaries of UN resolution.

PS: the word "genocide" is thrown around these days as a synonym to mass murder, which it isn't. Kaddafi wasn't about to commit genocide, he was about to massacre a lot of people, which is why his regime needed some huge change.

NATO is another organization that I'm willing to stand by.

To put it better I don't have a problem with Regime change base on internal affairs of a nation so much as I have a problem with UNILATERAL regime change based on the internal affairs of a nation.

Does that make my position clearer?

255 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:04:45pm

re: #252 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Syrian president dismisses calls for him to step down as 'worthless'

he's dead already

256 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:05:45pm

re: #232 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No no, you're thinking of the old French flag. You know, a white star on a white background.

No, surprisingly, the French actually had balls this time around. I've heard a lot of good things about their support of the no-fly zone and air strikes.

When was the time they didn't ... in the last 50 years or so ;)

257 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:05:54pm

Green Square in Rebel Hands

258 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:06:39pm

re: #204 laZardo

We technically didn't invade Afghanistan during the Soviet war, but we still backed "our people" against their "regime."

The mistake we made in Afghanistan wasn't in helping to drive out the Soviets, but in refusing to spend even a thousandth as much in redevelopment aid afterwards.

259 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:06:44pm

re: #251 Off Colfax

It means that all the bombs slated for future Tripoli sorties could now be sent to the Eastern Med.

I need to be convinced that the Western World can do any more in this theater. I'm not saying my opinion is a no, but I'd like to really have the pros and cons laid out realistically.

260 Off Colfax  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:07:14pm

Tweets confirming capture of Saif al-Islam al-Qaddafi. Not capture of Moammar.

261 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:07:33pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

The mistake we made in Afghanistan wasn't in helping to drive out the Soviets, but in refusing to spend even a thousandth as much in redevelopment aid afterwards.

Ayep. We had plenty of money for the war, none for the aftermath.

262 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:07:47pm
Libyan woman dances with an AK47 celebrating the fall of #Gaddafi [Link: t.co...] #Tripoli
263 Obdicut  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:07:58pm

re: #256 Sergey Romanov

When was the time they didn't ... in the last 50 years or so ;)

I think it's a ironic that the historically incredibly-militaristic-and-highl-successful-at-it French have somehow developed a reputation for cowardice, based on the strategic idiocy of a few generals a couple of decades after they lost nearly an entire generation of men fighting a war.

264 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:08:38pm

Tripoli airport under rebel control, along with highways out of the city. If Mo was gonna flee, he'd have already done so.

265 Skandal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:09:11pm

Apparently, Reuters just issued a clarification on the ICC announcemnt - Saif detained. Dad still unaccounted for.

266 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:09:23pm

re: #232 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

No no, you're thinking of the old French flag. You know, a white star on a white background.

No, surprisingly, the French actually had balls this time around. I've heard a lot of good things about their support of the no-fly zone and air strikes.

Leadership makes all the difference. Nicholas Sarkozy has the strength of character needed to fight and he's brought that strength to the Libya campaign.

BBL

267 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:10:02pm

Sky news feed of the square is just insane

268 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:10:35pm

re: #258 goddamnedfrank

The mistake we made in Afghanistan wasn't in helping to drive out the Soviets, but in refusing to spend even a thousandth as much in redevelopment aid afterwards.

Well, Libya has oil so we'll have some interest this time, plus we learned a hard lesson in Afghanistan.

BBL for real.

269 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:10:43pm

re: #262 NJDhockeyfan

I hope she gets to keep it.

270 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:11:12pm

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it's a ironic that the historically incredibly-militaristic-and-highl-successful-at-it French have somehow developed a reputation for cowardice, based on the strategic idiocy of a few generals a couple of decades after they lost nearly an entire generation of men fighting a war.

And that Iraq thing... not lack of balls, just presence of brains ;)

271 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:12:13pm

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it's a ironic that the historically incredibly-militaristic-and-highl-successful-at-it French have somehow developed a reputation for cowardice, based on the strategic idiocy of a few generals a couple of decades after they lost nearly an entire generation of men fighting a war.

and then went right back to their colonialism and got clobbered in Viet Nam, not to mention their problems in Algeria...the French were way to full of themselves...slow on the uptake, but hardly cowards

272 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:12:21pm

Hi, everyone.

Heh, looks like the Libyans are gonna have themselves one hell of an extra-special Eid celebration when Ramadan ends in about a week.

273 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:12:37pm

re: #256 Sergey Romanov

When was the time they didn't ... in the last 50 years or so ;)

i know the french take a lot of crap, but remember that in WWI their male population aged 18-21 was just about wiped out as they held the line against the german advance for 4+ years

274 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:12:49pm
RT @mugumya: RT @BorowitzReport: #LIBYA: Gaddafi's Son Cancels Booking of Beyonce and Mariah Carey for Next Birthday Party #gaddafi #tripoli

Heh.

275 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:13:00pm

re: #272 CuriousLurker
Yes. It does.

276 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:13:20pm

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it's a ironic that the historically incredibly-militaristic-and-highl-successful-at-it French have somehow developed a reputation for cowardice, based on the strategic idiocy of a few generals a couple of decades after they lost nearly an entire generation of men fighting a war.

I don't think that bravery has ever been France's problem. In the loses to Algeria and in Vietnam and during WWII it seem to be more in being the first to face the modern day Guerilla war fare and the Blitz of the Nazis.

277 Sinistershade  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:13:38pm

re: #138 The Yankee

For the love of god is it Gaddafi or Qaddafi or Gadhafi?

Leo McGarry: [on the phone with the New York Times] 17 across. Yes, 17 across is wrong... You're spelling his name wrong... What's my name? My name doesn't matter. I am just an ordinary citizen who relies on the Times crossword for stimulation. And I'm telling you that I met the man twice. And I recommended a pre-emptive Exocet missile strike against his air force, so I think I know how...
C.J. Cregg: Leo.
Leo McGarry: They hang up on me every time.

278 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:14:03pm

re: #266 Dark_Falcon

Let's give props to Prime Minister Cameron of the United Kingdom, Prime Minister Rasmussen of Denmark, Prime Minister Stoltenberg of Norway, and Prime Minister Reinfeldt of Sweden for doing what they did.

And to Sweden's Political System. 66% of the People in Sweden wanted aggressive action. And 7 of the 8 parties agreed. They broke a 197 year long streak of no aggressive action.

They weren't in NATO and didn't have to do this.

279 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:15:00pm
Unconfirmed reports via #CNN state that Muammar Gaddafi has been captured fleeing towards Tunisia. #Libya
280 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:15:10pm

re: #273 engineer dog

i know the french take a lot of crap, but remember that in WWI their male population aged 18-21 was just about wiped out as they held the line against the german advance for 4+ years

Literal lack of balls, eh?

//sorry, i'm so atrcious

281 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:16:51pm

There was one guy on Sky TV a while ago; he was just screaming "Freedom, freedom, freedom!" over and over (in English). Choked me up. I can't feel cynical when I see stuff like that. Everyone wants & deserves freedom.

282 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:16:59pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

what an idiot

283 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:18:08pm

Uh oh...

RT @AJEnglish reporting 40 international journalists are "trapped" inside Rixos by armed #Gaddafi forces and out of fear of gunfire outside.”

284 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:18:49pm

re: #281 CuriousLurker

There was one guy on Sky TV a while ago; he was just screaming "Freedom, freedom, freedom!" over and over (in English). Choked me up. I can't feel cynical when I see stuff like that. Everyone wants & deserves freedom.

I do.

Then again it's probably harder for some than others.

285 TedStriker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:19:18pm

re: #271 albusteve

and then went right back to their colonialism and got clobbered in Viet Nam, not to mention their problems in Algeria...the French were way to full of themselves...slow on the uptake, but hardly cowards

re: #273 engineer dog

i know the french take a lot of crap, but remember that in WWI their male population aged 18-21 was just about wiped out as they held the line against the german advance for 4+ years

re: #276 The Yankee

I don't think that bravery has ever been France's problem. In the loses to Algeria and in Vietnam and during WWII it seem to be more in being the first to face the modern day Guerilla war fare and the Blitz of the Nazis.

I agree, the French, as a people, aren't and never really have had a yellow streak, just a chunk of their leadership in the interwar/early WWII years. We're talking about a country that started the Foreign Legion, the original bunch of badasses (trained and commanded by the French); I think that France's military has done a really good job with its part of the Libya situation.

286 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:20:26pm

re: #284 laZardo

I do.

Then again it's probably harder for some than others.

you dig repression

287 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:20:57pm

re: #283 NJDhockeyfan

Just get a call to the NTC for assistance, then get to cover in the middle of the building.

That should handle it.

288 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:21:11pm

re: #286 albusteve

you dig repression

No, he just realizes that a victory here in no way guarantees liberty.

289 TedStriker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:22:03pm

re: #288 JasonA

No, he just realizes that a victory here in no way guarantees liberty.

Like anything else in life, the Libyans gotta want it.

290 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:22:14pm

re: #286 albusteve

you dig repression

I don't dig repression.

Neither by Gaddafi against those disloyal to him, nor by the tribes that will no doubt be punishing those people loyal to him in the near future.

291 Renaissance_Man  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:23:35pm

re: #263 Obdicut

I think it's a ironic that the historically incredibly-militaristic-and-highl-successful-at-it French have somehow developed a reputation for cowardice, based on the strategic idiocy of a few generals a couple of decades after they lost nearly an entire generation of men fighting a war.

Successful conquests of Britain - France 1, Germany 0.
Decisive, historic defeats of Moslem invasions - France 1, Eastern Roman Empire 0.

Of course, that said, successful conquests of Russia - France 0, Germany 0.

...

Mongols 1.

292 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:23:40pm

I hope Bush and Blair are feeling like dicks right now.

293 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:23:41pm

Meanwhile...

ahmed Ahmed Al Omran
Syria TV: Tripoli did not fall yfrog.com/gzvacyxj #libya

Al-Asad is scared as shit.

294 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:24:31pm

re: #288 JasonA

No, he just realizes that a victory here in no way guarantees liberty.

profound...who did btw?

295 justaminute  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:24:42pm

I think we should just withdraw to our air craft carriers and take the position of watcher in the Middle East at the present time. Libya started with the British and France and led to NATO. This transition will be really messy and probably have many setbacks as these countries fashion their form of "freedom and Democracy."

The Syrian people are really paying a lot in their battle, but so did we. We didn't exactly do Freedom and Democracy perfectly and frankly we still don't. I think the Iranian people will overcome their government but it is their fight and it will be their accomplishment no matter how bad we want it to be tomarrow.

296 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:24:44pm

re: #291 Renaissance_Man

Successful Regime Changes in Past 10 years:

France 2 : US .5

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:24:49pm

re: #290 laZardo

I don't dig repression.

Neither by Gaddafi against those disloyal to him, nor by the tribes that will no doubt be punishing those people loyal to him in the near future.

If the rebels want to do good, first thing they should do is a moratorium on capital punishment.

298 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:24:53pm
Breaking Al Arabiya: International Criminal Court statement: We have confirmation that Gaddafi has been captured
299 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:25:50pm

re: #298 Killgore Trout

Again, which one?

We had confirmation of Saif-al-Islam earlier.

300 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:26:00pm

re: #290 laZardo

I don't dig repression.

Neither by Gaddafi against those disloyal to him, nor by the tribes that will no doubt be punishing those people loyal to him in the near future.

You have no better insight on what will happen with Libya's future than anyone else here. No doubt?

301 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:26:09pm

re: #298 Killgore Trout

That's Saif al_Islam, not Mo.

302 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:28:18pm

re: #294 albusteve

profound...who did btw?

I didn't say anyone did. Now tell me why his pessimism implies that he digs repression, please?

303 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:28:42pm

Their celebrations seem fairly exuberant.

I'm now intimately familiar with the sound of Automatic Rifle fire. :P

304 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:28:51pm

Mo's friends Cynthia McKinney & Louis Farrakhan have got to be sobbing by now.

305 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:28:56pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

It always gets me how these guys have decades to come up with an awesome Plan B, like some kind of ultra secret underground arch villain lair / LOST type super magnet hatch thingy island oasis home. Somehow they always plan on being in power forever and get caught panicking while making sandwiches. It's getting embarrassing, think ahead dictators of the world, come up with some retirement options.

306 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:29:01pm

re: #299 ProLifeLiberal

Again, which one?

We had confirmation of Saif-al-Islam earlier.

Ah, nice catch. I just assumed Mumar.

307 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:29:13pm

Tomorrow the hard, sobering work starts, but right at this moment I don't give a damn what happens tomorrow. The rebels fought hard, and now they and the Libyan people are feeling the joy of freedom for the first time in 42 years, so I'm celebrating right along with them.

308 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:30:54pm

re: #306 Killgore Trout

That's a bit of a issue when there are 8 living male Qaddafis. (One was killed earlier.)

309 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:30:59pm

al_Islam

for a second i thought i was reading code

310 The Yankee  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:31:07pm

re: #291 Renaissance_Man

Successful conquests of Britain - France 1, Germany 0.
Decisive, historic defeats of Moslem invasions - France 1, Eastern Roman Empire 0.

Of course, that said, successful conquests of Russia - France 0, Germany 0.

...

Mongols 1.

I got the feeling that those Mongols are up to something. I don't trust them....

311 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:31:11pm

re: #300 blueraven

You have no better insight on what will happen with Libya's future than anyone else here. No doubt?

After Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia, I can take a better educated guess about what'll happen than most.

312 Skandal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:31:29pm

Tweet:
Well, one things for sure. Gaddafi won't be able to sneak out of town disguised as a woman. We've seen all the outfits already.

A good site for live Libya-related streaming tweets: Blogs of War

313 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:33:16pm

LOL:

SusannePari RT @BorowitzReport: People of #Libya: We Americans hope you get a functioning democracy. And when you do, please tell us what it's like.

314 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:34:07pm

re: #313 ProLifeLiberal

LOL:

Heh.

315 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:34:33pm

re: #307 CuriousLurker

Tomorrow the hard, sobering work starts, but right at this moment I don't give a damn what happens tomorrow. The rebels fought hard, and now they and the Libyan people are feeling the joy of freedom for the first time in 42 years, so I'm celebrating right along with them.

Definitely. All these revolutions create uncertainty and there are reasons to be concerned about what happens next. But for now we have the overthrow of a dictator and terrorist and the people are free for the first time in 40 years. I'm pouring a glass of Ramadan Red Wine to toast them. I think I have some shisha around here somewhere.

316 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:35:57pm

The one clip I saw was the funniest things I've ever scene on the Internet..
2 kids with automatic rifles getting ready to fire in the sky when one guys gun jammed and he is working on it when all of a sudden this other kid comes on camera shouting and smiling and waving a flag.. The the one kids gun goes off right by his head..He spins around with a look on his face that said did you almost blow my effen head off?
Then his buddy started firing up in the air..This Nathan Lane character put his hands on his head and started spinning around screaming until he fled off camera sans flag..
It was probably the funniest thing I have ever seen..

317 Stanghazi  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:36:18pm

re: #313 ProLifeLiberal

LOL:

ha. Oh the days we are living!

318 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:36:38pm

re: #313 ProLifeLiberal

I know it's intended in good spirit and such, but these
'we don't have a func. dem." jokes are tiresome. Yes, you do.

319 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:37:29pm

And some numbnuts are trying to loot the Rixos Hotel.

Although that could be Journalists taking cool swag.

320 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:37:40pm
Uninstalling dictator #Gaddafi in progress ... ████████████████████░ Dictator uninstall 99.9% complete. #Libye #Kadhafi
321 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:37:46pm

re: #307 CuriousLurker
I am too very happy and I hope they make the correct decisions for what they want.

322 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:38:06pm

jelyot Jim Elyot
Can't wait to hear what Michelle Bachmann has to say about today's historic news from Liberia. #Libya

323 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:39:04pm

re: #322 Killgore Trout

Fantastic! Is guy a comedian?

324 engineer cat  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:39:29pm

re: #318 Sergey Romanov

I know it's intended in good spirit and such, but these
'we don't have a func. dem." jokes are tiresome. Yes, you do.

my high school history teacher used to say "the founding fathers carefully designed the government of the united states to be so inefficient that nobody can do any real harm"

325 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:40:08pm

re: #323 ProLifeLiberal

Fantastic! Is guy a comedian?

Nope, just a normal guy.

326 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:40:38pm

re: #315 Killgore Trout

Definitely. All these revolutions create uncertainty and there are reasons to be concerned about what happens next. But for now we have the overthrow of a dictator and terrorist and the people are free for the first time in 40 years. I'm pouring a glass of Ramadan Red Wine to toast them. I think I have some shisha around here somewhere.

Exactly.

Middle Eastern tyrants take note: You days are numbered, assholes. Lead (justly), follow, or get the hell out of the way.

327 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:41:18pm

re: #325 Killgore Trout

He deserves props for that.

From Libya:

dovenews Libyan™
BREAKING! The spokesperson of the Libyan Liberation Army said #Gaddafi is still in #Tripoli. Al AlArabiya

Trapped like the rat he is. I say 6 hours until caught or killed.

328 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:41:25pm

re: #324 engineer dog

my high school history teacher used to say "the founding fathers carefully designed the government of the united states to be so inefficient that nobody can do any real harm"

Wel, they failed. :-p

329 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:41:43pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

On this note:

Your next, Al-Asad!

330 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:42:21pm

re: #321 PhillyPretzel

I am too very happy and I hope they make the correct decisions for what they want.

Me too. It's gonna be a long tough road.

331 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:42:31pm

re: #249 JasonA

And now I'm wondering what this means for Syria.

Damn good question.

"As the UN ponderously turns it's massive stone head to gaze upon the Evil Dentist since Libya is a done deal..."

Zardoz!

332 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:43:17pm

re: #331 austin_blue

This will be an injection of energy.

333 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:44:54pm

re: #327 ProLifeLiberal

He deserves props for that.

From Libya:

Trapped like the rat he is. I say 6 hours until caught or killed.

Love nothing better than to awake tomorrow morning to the headline "Gaddafi Is An Ex-Dictator."

334 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:45:27pm

re: #272 CuriousLurker

Hi, everyone.

Heh, looks like the Libyans are gonna have themselves one hell of an extra-special Eid celebration when Ramadan ends in about a week.

And damn well deserved. Hey, CL. Hope you are well hydrated now!

335 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:46:30pm

re: #332 ProLifeLiberal

This will be an injection of energy.

Assad is committed to extreme violence...he will prevail until he's out of ammo

336 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:47:01pm

re: #333 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I can be a blood-thirsty at times.

I want to see Qaddafi hang from a lamppost.

And the people who Qaddafi tried to wipe out wiped him out. Congratulations to the Berbers!

337 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:47:38pm

re: #335 albusteve

Time for some ammo to "mysteriously" disappear.

338 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:47:52pm

re: #334 austin_blue

And damn well deserved. Hey, CL. Hope you are well hydrated now!

I'm getting ready to be—as a matter of fact, it's time to break the fast right now.

BBL! *races to kitchen for coffeepot & cigs*

339 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:48:17pm

re: #336 ProLifeLiberal

I can be a blood-thirsty at times.

I want to see Qaddafi hang from a lamppost.

And the people who Qaddafi tried to wipe out wiped him out. Congratulations to the Berbers!

Human rights!!!111

340 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:49:40pm

re: #311 laZardo

After Iraq, Afghanistan and Somalia, I can take a better educated guess about what'll happen than most.

Really? How bright you are. Yet you can't see that this is not Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia. It is a totally different situation.

341 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:49:55pm

re: #339 laZardo

This bastard is a click below Hitler in evil.

So I could give a damn about his human rights after he violated the rights of 1000's before.

342 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:50:32pm

re: #339 laZardo

Human rights!!!111

Well Libya was on the Human Rights Council at the UN. Mo's an expert on human rights.

343 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:50:59pm

re: #280 Sergey Romanov

Literal lack of balls, eh?

//sorry, i'm so atrcious

Sorta. The WW1 Yoot Generation in France (ages 17-37 in 1914) had 1/3 fatalities, 1/3 wounded, and 1/3 cooks.

Similar numbers in England, too.

A man lucky enough to survive intact and sane was real damn popular for 15 years.

344 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:51:42pm

re: #330 CuriousLurker

Me too. It's gonna be a long tough road.

Revolutions are not as instantaneous as they seem. It took us more than a hundred years to get it half right.

345 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:51:53pm

Still some bastards around in Tripoli.

13 ppl were killed in the last 1hr, Gaddafi mercenaries are using ambulances to shoot at civilians. #Tajoora

346 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:52:11pm

re: #337 ProLifeLiberal

Time for some ammo to "mysteriously" disappear.

yes, there are deniable, discreet ways the Syrians could be helped....Assad is killing them by the boatload...of all the rebels these last months I have to give the most credit to those folks...they are truly getting hammered but won't stop...time to drone the fucker, or if the Mossad has a plan, I'd go for that...diplomatic decorum means little when innocent people are being slaughtered

347 Decatur Deb  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:52:42pm

re: #333 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Love nothing better than to awake tomorrow morning to the headline "Gaddafi Is An Ex-Dictator."

Pining for the wadis.

348 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:53:08pm

re: #341 ProLifeLiberal

On emotional level, yeah. Mussolini's hanging corpse was cool. But we do live in an era of human rights, so if Q is caught, I hope there will be a fair trial.

349 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:53:18pm

re: #346 albusteve

Seal Team 6 sneaks out with ammo?

350 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:54:30pm

re: #348 Sergey Romanov

Algeria could be in trouble.

Benghazi must jubilant. Expect a baby boom in 9 months.

351 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:54:39pm

re: #348 Sergey Romanov

On emotional level, yeah. Mussolini's hanging corpse was cool. But we do live in an era of human rights, so if Q is caught, I hope there will be a fair trial.

If Mo surrenders and is taken alive, then I expect him to be put on trial, just as Saddam was. If he decides to go out fighting, as Saddam's sons did, then I expect the rebels to oblige. If he surrenders and they summarily execute him, then we can quibble on human rights violations.

352 steve_davis  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:54:41pm

re: #195 Sergey Romanov

"czar" is simply an incorrect spelling that was 'historicized'. Tsar is correct.

Well, Caesar, if you want to get all Indy-Europeany about things :-)

353 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:55:57pm

re: #349 ProLifeLiberal

Seal Team 6 sneaks out with ammo?

cut his supply lines to Iran...if Iran gets pissy, slap them...if the US and the west can do anything to help arrest this maniacal, suicidal repression in the ME, we should....come what may

354 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:55:59pm

re: #350 ProLifeLiberal
They are celebrating. [Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

355 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:58:07pm

re: #346 albusteve


I'm not above 671 grains of Diplomacy.

re: #349 ProLifeLiberal

I believe they won't be sneaking out ammo so much as blowing up enemy stores, training friendlies, and sneaking in much needed small arms and man portable heavies.

I noticed some of the Libyans on the news had some clean looking M-4s with optics.

356 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 4:58:15pm

re: #340 blueraven

Really? How bright you are. Yet you can't see that this is not Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia. It is a totally different situation.

It's not physically there. But it's us sponsoring a rather fractitious group of douchebags against the douchebag-in-charge.

Not much difference there now, is there?

357 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:00:00pm

re: #356 laZardo

And it's all so we can satisfy our "interests."

358 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:01:08pm

re: #357 laZardo

And it's all so we can satisfy our "interests."

you're clueless and narrowminded

359 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:01:14pm

re: #352 steve_davis

Well, Caesar, if you want to get all Indy-Europeany about things :-)

We were talking transcriptions, not etymologies.

360 albusteve  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:01:44pm

re: #355 Idle Drifter

I'm not above 671 grains of Diplomacy.

re: #349 ProLifeLiberal

I believe they won't be sneaking out ammo so much as blowing up enemy stores, training friendlies, and sneaking in much needed small arms and man portable heavies.

I noticed some of the Libyans on the news had some clean looking M-4s with optics.

CIA mercs?

361 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:02:08pm

re: #340 blueraven

Really? How bright you are. Yet you can't see that this is not Iraq, Afghanistan or Somalia. It is a totally different situation.

Agreed, homeboy. Afghanistan and Somalia were failed states, and Iraq had the triple threat of Sunni, Shia, and the Kurds.

Libya is a Sunni state with tribal conflicts, but it also has several advantages, including an intact oil, electrical, communication, and transportation infrastructure. They start from a higher level of modernity.

362 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:04:42pm

re: #352 steve_davis

Well, Caesar, if you want to get all Indy-Europeany about things :-)

Well, that's "Kaiser" in Germany.

363 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:04:59pm

re: #356 laZardo

It's not physically there. But it's us sponsoring a rather fractitious group of douchebags against the douchebag-in-charge.

Not much difference there now, is there?

You mean, like in WWII? Or are you an isolationist that-wise too?

364 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:05:10pm

re: #361 austin_blue

Libya is a Sunni state with tribal conflicts, but it also has several advantages, including an intact oil, electrical, communication, and transportation infrastructure. They start from a higher level of modernity.

So did the other "failed states."

365 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:05:26pm

re: #361 austin_blue

Homegirl...but were on the same page!

366 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:06:43pm

re: #363 Sergey Romanov

You mean, like in WWII? Or are you an isolationist that-wise too?

Okay, now that's borderline Godwin. The Allies weren't fractitious (save for the divide that would lead to the Cold War, but that was really just one).

367 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:07:11pm

re: #365 blueraven

Homegirl...but were on the same page!

we're...gah

368 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:07:55pm

re: #360 albusteve

CIA mercs?

Nope. French-supplied rifles. A *lot* of ex-Qaddafi troops were good troops. M-4s to the specialists, AKs for the masses. Same as ever.

369 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:08:20pm
dovenews Libyan
Gaddafi TV has been broadcasting from cars on the road for quite while. Libyan TV still showing prerecorded programs with bad signal

Hey NATO, there's one last airstrike for you.

370 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:11:33pm

re: #366 laZardo

Okay, now that's borderline Godwin.


You say it as if it was something bad.

The Allies weren't fractitious (save for the divide that would lead to the Cold War, but that was really just one).

Your response doesn't mae much sense. The West was helping Stalin to defeat Hitler, and moreover, it was worth it despite what we know about Stalin.

371 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:14:39pm

re: #360 albusteve

CIA mercs?

The Civil War has been raging in Libya long enough to get weapons in country from certain agencies. As for training, half the Libyan Army split with Rebels and most of the Libyans on TV were rag tag militia. I did notice some M-4s with optics in good condition among the Rebels. Where they got them or if they were trained by an agency may never be revealed.

Western weapons like the M-4, M-16, FN FAL, G3, etc tend to be status symbols in some conflicts as they can denote wealth and influence. AK-47s are great for arming an Army of ragtag fighters but even the fighters themselves have preferences. They could be better trained in weapons handling and want the longer range and accuracy of M-4 over an AK.

372 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:16:33pm

re: #364 laZardo

So did the other "failed states."

Afghanistan and Somalia? How old are you? Read history?

Energy use in metric tons of CO2/capita:

Japan 9.5
Libya- 9.3
Somalia- 0.1
Afghanistan-

373 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:18:15pm

re: #365 blueraven

Homegirl...but were on the same page!

Are you down south with Lidane and I?

374 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:19:12pm

re: #372 austin_blue

Afghanistan and Somalia? How old are you? Read history?

Energy use in metric tons of CO2/capita:

Japan 9.5
Libya- 9.3
Somalia- 0.1
Afghanistan-

Okay, so Libya was also an oil-producing state.

375 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:22:36pm

Parties and celebrations in London now too. Sounds like Expats.

376 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:24:20pm

re: #374 laZardo

Okay, so Libya was also an oil-producing state.

You miss the point. That is not what Libya produced, that was what they *burned* to maintain their economy.

Linkie:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

377 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:24:38pm

Just saw the Azamigh (Berber) Flag in Benghazi.

A good sign.

378 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:26:58pm

re: #376 austin_blue

Still. There's a reason NATO decided to take action in Libya, rather than in, say, Bahrain. And ultimately, it's not about the "human rights."

379 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:28:21pm

Huh, look at this;


dovenews Libyan
Mohammed Gaddafi "I am at home, I have been granted peace"

dovenews Libyan
Mohammed Gaddafi "The group have surrounded my house"

dovenews Libyan
Mohammed Gaddafi "I am sad that Libyan ppl were killing each other"

380 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:28:30pm

re: #373 austin_blue

Are you down south with Lidane and I?

I am out by the lake...north shore
Used to live south, my daughter is midtown.

381 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:29:02pm

re: #378 laZardo

And ultimately, it's not about the "human rights."

And you know this how?

382 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:29:37pm

re: #373 austin_blue

Are you down south with Lidane and I?

I got you beat by at least a 1000 miles. I'm really down south. Just sayin.

383 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:29:40pm

re: #381 Sergey Romanov

And you know this how?

From looking at the way the past NATO/US interventions ultimately turned out.

384 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:29:54pm

re: #380 blueraven

I am out by the lake...north shore
Used to live south, my daughter is midtown.

Lake Travis, I should clarify.

385 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:31:12pm

re: #383 laZardo

From looking at the way the past NATO/US interventions ultimately turned out.

Ok, then you don't know. Oh, and Serbia worked out pretty well from what I hear. Must be that famous Serbian oil.

386 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:31:31pm

re: #385 Sergey Romanov

Olive oil.

/

387 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:31:59pm

re: #385 Sergey Romanov

Ok, then you don't know. Oh, and Serbia worked out pretty well from what I hear. Must be that famous Serbian oil.

Why do you think it's called Balkanization?

388 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:32:51pm

re: #387 laZardo

Why do you think it's called Balkanization?

Ok, what's the price of tea in China these days?

389 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:33:16pm

Q'Daffy really fucked over his sons. He brought them back from nice safe lives in Europe to defend him and then threw them to the rebels at the last minute in a doomed attempt to save himself. Major Asshole.

390 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:34:15pm

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Although Saif-Al-Islam has been a dick too.

I do feel sorry for Muhammad al-Qaddafi.

391 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:34:19pm

re: #389 Killgore Trout

They're big boys responsible for themselves.

392 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:34:30pm
kurdishblogger kurdish blogger
I can't believe Aljazeera Arabic r brilliant it is so sad that Muhamad Gaddafi son started crying probably for safety of his children


A little late to think of that.

393 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:34:38pm

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Q'Daffy really fucked over his sons. He brought them back from nice safe lives in Europe to defend him and then threw them to the rebels at the last minute in a doomed attempt to save himself. Major Asshole.

And if fortune continues to smile upon the rebels, he'll be able to look forward to sitting next to his boys when they're all brought before the ICC.

394 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:36:03pm

Hunh. Searched on Libya on twitter.

Amnesty wants us to stop the bloodshed. By signing a petition.

395 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:36:39pm

re: #388 Sergey Romanov

You're missing the point and the question. NATO is sponsoring the conflict in Libya to protect its interests against its perceived rivals. It intervened in Kosovo to give it a lead up on Russia (which, like Serbia, still considers Kosovo as a "rogue province.") The massacres, while definitely Serbia's fault, definitely helped its case forward.

396 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:37:27pm

re: #392 Killgore Trout

Muhammad has not been the evil bastard that his father and brothers have been, so I feel differently.

397 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:38:41pm

re: #396 ProLifeLiberal

Muhammad al-Qaddafi has not been the evil bastard that his father and brothers have been, so I feel differently.

398 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:38:55pm

ericuman Oh no, CNN has deployed Wolf Blitzer.

399 blueraven  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:39:43pm

re: #398 JasonA

ericuman Oh no, CNN has deployed Wolf Blitzer.

Even MSNBC is on it. Finally!

400 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:39:57pm

re: #398 JasonA

ericuman Oh no, CNN has deployed Wolf Blitzer.

There's a situation so there's obvious need for the Situation Room.

401 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:39:59pm

re: #395 laZardo

You just take these claims out of your ass, probably under the guise of them being "obvious", yet I'm the one allegedly missing something.

402 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:40:11pm

re: #399 blueraven

They lost alot of points tonight.

403 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:41:38pm

re: #401 Sergey Romanov

You just take these claims out of your ass, probably under the guise of them being "obvious", yet I'm the one allegedly missing something.

I'm just saying that I really don't think the intervention is really as altruistic as it seems. And given what's happened in previous "interventions," I highly doubt this will turn out well.

404 laZardo  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:41:46pm

Fuck this, I'm going for a walk.

405 Killgore Trout  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:41:53pm
Call with Mohammed Gaddafi was interrupted amid shooting apparently. His voice was shivering. He said gunfire inside his house! #libya
406 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:42:39pm

re: #405 Killgore Trout

Reports in last few minutes say he is okay.

Hope that is true.

407 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:43:52pm

re: #399 blueraven

Even MSNBC is on it. Finally!

Better late than never I guess.

408 Targetpractice  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:45:06pm

re: #405 Killgore Trout

"They are coming to Tripoli! They are coming to stop the rebels! They are...what was that...OH SHI-"

409 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:46:31pm

re: #403 laZardo

I'm just saying that I really don't think the intervention is really as altruistic as it seems. And given what's happened in previous "interventions," I highly doubt this will turn out well.

You made this as clear as possible, so you're repeating yourself. You should also understand that it's but your opinion.

Note, I'm not claiming that NATO's actions are of necessity altruistic. I do consider it possible that noble intentions are among the primary factors in this campaign. If someone claims to know otherwise, I will try ask why they say so. Your attempts haven't been very coherent or convincing.

Have a nice walk.

410 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:46:36pm

Because how would we know what's going on without three 24-hour cable news networks covering the exact same thing at the same time?

411 jaunte  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:48:15pm

Andy Borowitz
#LIBYA: Rebels Leaving Jubilant Voicemails, Says Rupert Murdoch

412 Charles Johnson  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:49:01pm

If Gaddafi had accepted the reality and stepped down early on, he probably could have had a relatively comfortable retirement from the life of a dictator.

Instead, he went mad dog, and ensured that he's going to face war crimes charges.

Hopefully, this will be a lesson to the area's other despots.

413 Four More Tears  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:49:03pm

re: #411 jaunte

Andy Borowitz
#LIBYA: Rebels Leaving Jubilant Voicemails, Says Rupert Murdoch

I am so frigging pissed that I didn't think of that.

414 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:52:53pm

re: #378 laZardo

Still. There's a reason NATO decided to take action in Libya, rather than in, say, Bahrain. And ultimately, it's not about the "human rights."

Yeah, it's about feasibility, Libya was doable, Bahrain not so much. NATO is fairly pragmatic, their though process doesn't prioritize sisyphean impossibility.

415 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:53:04pm

re: #412 Charles

As much as I want Assad to stand trial for his crimes against humanity it'll take a lot more to remove him than Gadhafi. Assad has his country in an iron grip with support from Terran.

416 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:54:26pm

re: #412 Charles

Or worse

re: #415 Idle Drifter

I somehow think you mean Tehran. :P

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:54:44pm

re: #414 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, it's about feasibility, Libya was doable, Bahrain not so much. NATO is fairly pragmatic, their though process doesn't prioritize sisyphean impossibility.

Xactly. I always marvel at this sort of argument. "Why don't they bomb Syria whargharblgharwharbl!!!11"

418 Idle Drifter  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:56:30pm

re: #416 ProLifeLiberal

Or worse

re: #415 Idle Drifter

I somehow think you mean Tehran. :P

Preview Is My Friend. Yes, Tehran.

419 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 5:59:41pm

with all the mere talking and limp-wristed action Reagan and GW Bush ordered against Gaddafi and Bin Laden, it was a "Commie Pinko Liberal" Obama who actually did something about it.

I guess Commie Pinko Liberal Obama has balls that both God-fearing Reagan and GW Bush lacked. I can't really think of any other explanation. Bin Laden dead. And now Gaddafi either dead or on the run.

420 CuriousLurker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 6:00:22pm

re: #412 Charles

Reality has never been Qaddafi's strong suit.

I'd love nothing more than for the other despots to rethink their positions, but I'm afraid the only thing they'll take away from all this is a need to tighten their stranglehold on dissent. May their remaining days in power be few.

421 austin_blue  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 6:03:58pm

re: #378 laZardo

Still. There's a reason NATO decided to take action in Libya, rather than in, say, Bahrain. And ultimately, it's not about the "human rights."

Yes, there is. It was in NATO's purview. Bahraian was not.

422 lostlakehiker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 6:07:39pm

re: #164 The Yankee

Wasn't Algeria where this entire over throw your local government thing all began?

Tunisia.

423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 6:12:58pm

re: #389 Killgore Trout

Q'Daffy really fucked over his sons. He brought them back from nice safe lives in Europe to defend him and then threw them to the rebels at the last minute in a doomed attempt to save himself. Major Asshole.

Here son. Put on this dress and fancy hat for the ball. I'll be in Algeria.

424 TedStriker  Sun, Aug 21, 2011 7:10:38pm

re: #412 Charles

If Gaddafi had accepted the reality and stepped down early on, he probably could have had a relatively comfortable retirement from the life of a dictator.

Instead, he went mad dog, and ensured that he's going to face war crimes charges.

Hopefully, this will be a lesson to the area's other despots.

Or get the Mussolini treatment...

425 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Aug 22, 2011 3:14:50am

re: #387 laZardo

Why do you think it's called Balkanization?

Reminds me of Joseph Stromberg.

426 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 23, 2011 1:33:33am

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