Climate Change Denial Blogs in Fail Mode Again

Yet another scientific paper that doesn’t say what they think it says

EnvironmentAugust 2011 • Views: 29,375

Climate change denial websites immediately jumped all over a recent paper from the CERN CLOUD project, about the effects of cosmic rays on cloud formation.

I knew they had jumped, actually, before I even read “Watts Up With That” or any of the other blogs dedicated to discrediting climate science, because my email Inbox was suddenly full of gloating notes from anonymous right wingers, as it always is when one of these hysterical climate denial outrages happens. For example, on Friday someone used the fake email address “AGW@myass.com” and the subject “you’re a dipwad,” to send the URL of this article at the Register: CERN: ‘Climate models will need to be substantially revised’.

I didn’t write about this story immediately because 1) atmospheric aerosol nucleation isn’t really my specialty, and 2) I wanted to wait for the inevitable debunking of the overhyped denialists’ claims by a real scientist.

And here it is, with more than you ever wanted to know about the role played by ionization in nucleation: RealClimate: The CERN/CLOUD results are surprisingly interesting…

Aerosol nucleation experiments are not usually front page news, and the likely high public profile of this paper is only loosely related to the science that is actually being done. Rather, the excitement is based on the expectation that this work will provide some insight into the proposed cosmic ray/cloud/climate link that Svensmark (for instance) has claimed is the dominant driver of climate change (though note he is not an author on this paper, despite an earlier affiliation with the project). Indeed, the first justification for the CLOUD experiment was that: “The basic purpose of the CLOUD detector … is to conﬁrm, or otherwise, a direct link between cosmic rays and cloud formation by measuring droplet formation in a controlled test-beam environment”. It is eminently predictable that the published results will be wildly misconstrued by the contrarian blogosphere as actually proving this link. However, that would be quite wrong.

We were clear in the 2006 post that establishing a significant GCR/cloud/climate link would require the following steps (given that we have known that ionisation plays a role in nucleation for decades). One would need to demonstrate:

… that increased nucleation gives rise to increased numbers of (much larger) cloud condensation nuclei (CCN)

… and that even in the presence of other CCN, ionisation changes can make a noticeable difference to total CCN

… and even if there were more CCN, you would need to show that this actually changed cloud properties significantly,

… and that given that change in cloud properties, you would need to show that it had a significant effect on radiative forcing.

Of course, to show that cosmic rays were actually responsible for some part of the recent warming, you would need to show that there was actually a decreasing trend in cosmic rays over recent decades – which is tricky, because there hasn’t been (see the figure).

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111 comments

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:47:25pm

I'm an atmospheric aerosol nucleator from way back...you should have asked me.

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:47:59pm

re: #1 darthstar

I'm an atmospheric aerosol nucleator from way back...you should have asked me.

Atmospheric aerosol nucleation is another word for fart, right?

Kid A Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:52:23pm

Debunked!

Eventual Carrion Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:52:36pm

re: #2 darthstar

Atmospheric aerosol nucleation is another word for fart, right?

And if you don't do it correctly, it becomes a shart.

Cinnabar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:54:22pm

How many of the deniers will get through the second paragraph before giving up?

MrSilverDragon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:55:03pm

re: #5 C1nnabar

How many of the deniers will get through the second paragraph before giving up?

To wit, how many will even get through the first paragraph?

Henchman 25 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:55:14pm

re: #5 C1nnabar

How many of the deniers will get through the second paragraph before giving up?

Since when do the deniers read?

Political Atheist Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:57:29pm

So AGW deniers want to claim it's cosmic ray imapct on cloud formation that is the issue? Um, whatever. Gotta wonder if they ever reviewed this data...

The study, by experts at the DLR German Aerospace Centre, estimated that the net warming effect for the Earth of contrails and related cirrus clouds at any one time was 31 milliwatts per square metre, more than the warming effect of accumulated CO2 from aviation of 28 milliwatts.

b_sharp Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:58:09pm

Just like creationists, they believe one missing, malformed or hollow brick will bring down the entire edifice.

Just like evolution, the evidence for AGW/CC spans many disciplines that together make the wall rock solid.

Just like creationists, the denialists, in their inability to understand the conclusions of a paper, make up their own.

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:58:55pm

re: #5 C1nnabar

How many of the deniers will get thro--

GLOBAMA WARMING IS A MYTH

b_sharp Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:59:35pm

re: #6 MrSilverDragon

To wit, how many will even get through the first paragraph?

Three. However, they will be stopped by the first graph.

Henchman 25 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 1:59:58pm

re: #10 darthstar

LOL

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:01:14pm

re: #5 C1nnabar

How many of the deniers will get through the second paragraph before giving up?

Some will, but then they'll get the email from their denier site of choice containing a list of talking points (helpfully provided the subscriber's choice of English or Teabag) to help them quickly get started calling RealClimate

Bad Tricksy Scientists Lying to Grab Our Tax Dollars!!1

. Then they will be accused of being

bought and paid for by SOROS!!!11

Alexzander Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:13:14pm

God Help America.

Jack Burton Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:15:51pm

Fuckin' Magnets

Image: 1270824165022.jpg

b_sharp Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:17:25pm

I'm getting more pessimistic every day about any kind of substantial effort to curb AGW happening in my lifetime. I don't want to godwin this thread, but I'm afraid that in 50 years, my generation and the one following it will be remembered alongside 1930s Germany.

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:26:13pm

Gizmodo teeing off on the Republican Party's anti-science bug-eyed crazy: [Link: gizmodo.com...]

Talking Point Detective Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:27:11pm

It also should be noted that despite claims to the contrary made by "skeptics," climate scientists have not simply dismissed the CERN CLOUD study. Instead, at RC they have been consistent since a previous paper in 2006; the results are potentially interesting, but do not lead support overextrapolated conclusions about consequences to the reality of climate change.

RealClimate from 2006:

Svensmark’s paper itself is indeed of some interest. Aerosol processes are among the most uncertain, and most studied, aspects of climate and these experiments (they bombarded a clean mixture of water, SO2, O3 and air with high energy UV and saw small H2SO4 droplets form) might be useful in adding to that field. One could quibble with the use of the high-energy UV (which never penetrates to the lower troposphere), and the high concentrations of SO2 and O3, but by far the biggest problems lie in the study’s relevance to the real world atmospheric conditions.

RealClimate from 2011:

This paper is actually remarkably free of the over-the-top spin that has accompanied previous papers, and that bodes very well for making actual scientific progress on this topic.

[...]
This result will surely inspire some of their next experiments. All-in-all this is a treasure trove of results (and potential future results) for people tasked with trying to model or understand aerosol processes in the atmosphere.

[...]

In summary, this is a great example of doing science and making progress, even if it isn’t what they first thought they’d find.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:33:24pm

re: #16 b_sharp

I'm getting more pessimistic every day about any kind of substantial effort to curb AGW happening in my lifetime. I don't want to godwin this thread, but I'm afraid that in 50 years, my generation and the one following it will be remembered alongside 1930s Germany.

AGW is a disorganized PR mess....it never recovered from last years ambush...Copenhagen was dismal failure and I agree with your pessimism...I would not know where to start to get it back on track

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:35:22pm

Neptune is back in town...it's raining in ABQ....lightly

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:35:57pm

re: #20 albusteve

Neptune is back in town...it's raining in ABQ...lightly

Glad you finally got some rain.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:39:15pm

re: #1 darthstar

I'm an atmospheric aerosol nucleator from way back...you should have asked me.

heh,, back in my day, we called them Soda Jerks!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:39:54pm

Thank you Charles for posting this. I too was waiting for an inevitable post on the topic.

I would like to add some points not mentioned in your post.

1. Driving of cloud formation by cosmic rays has been a subject of discussion for some time. For those who are curious, cosmic rays are high energy (usually) extra solar particles that form a background. They are frequently the result of violent astronomical events. The vast bulk of them are protons accelerated to extremely high energies that have wandered here from across space. In any case, long before modern experimental particle physics techniques were employed to look at particles, a device called a cloud chamber was used. The physics here is essentially the same.

2. A cloud chamber works by having water vapor near the critical point of water and shooting high energy particles through it. The particles ionize water vapor and thes ionized molecules form nucleation centers for droplets to form.

3. For a long time, debate had raged as to how much of an effect cloud formation caused by this forcing could effect climate. Despite uncertainty in this effect, even the largest possible forcing caused by it, is already surpassed by the warming we are seeing as cuased by other drivers. As an example, say I don't know how much something weighs, and I have reason to believe it weighs 500 kg +/- 200 kg. That is a huge uncertainty granted. If I am adding that to something that weighs 10,000 kg, and looking for the total mass, the uncertanty in the smaller part matters much less. One look at the amount of warming we have and the availible energy budget shows very quickly that we have exceeded the gretest possible warming from this effect assuming that is was much greater than currently measured. 4. If there were more cosmic rays leading to more cloud cover, then the earth would cool because of an increased albedo. We are not seeing this.

5. If there were less cosmic rays, leading to less cloud formation, we would get warmer, but this would also produce more water vapor. This could have a warming effect, or it could end up being a wash in certain circumstances, because cosmic rays are not the only things that cause cloud formation. In any case, the point is moot because we are not seeing a marked drop in cosmic rays hitting the Earth.

6. The great importance of this research is that it will aid in weather forcasting. In terms of climate, it will actually end up putting yet another nail in the coffin of this line of climate denial.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:41:07pm

re: #22 sattv4u2

heh,, back in my day, we called them Soda Jerks!

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

no such thing as a chocolate soda anymore....maybe in the Soda Museum...I caught the tail end of that era, as I'm thinking you did too

Atlas Fails Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:43:51pm

This is the logical conclusion to decades of rhetoric demonizing scientists and intellectuals.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:45:53pm

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote

Science keeps pounding in the nails, yet the coffin never seems to be sealed. The denier side is not going to give up, they've got too much invested to quit. They'll have to be swept off the field to settle the matter (that sweeping should not be read to include any use of violence).

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:46:16pm

re: #24 albusteve

no such thing as a chocolate soda anymore...maybe in the Soda Museum...I caught the tail end of that era, as I'm thinking you did too

jelly doughnut soda

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:46:29pm

re: #24 albusteve

no such thing as a chocolate soda anymore...maybe in the Soda Museum...I caught the tail end of that era, as I'm thinking you did too

Ah, but you are wrong, kind sir

Can't recall the name of the place, but when we went to visit Auburn University with my son (one of the colleges he's applying too) in downtown Auburn there's an old fashioned apothecary complete with an old fashioned (and functioning) soda counter

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:47:14pm

re: #27 WindUpBird

jelly doughnut soda

those guys are a hoot...I hope they are making money

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:47:26pm

re: #27 WindUpBird

jelly doughnut soda

Add a couple of shots of vodka and then we'll talk!

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:48:05pm

re: #25 Atlas Fails

This is the logical conclusion to decades of rhetoric demonizing scientists and intellectuals.

I'm curious as to where the the GOP plot goes from here

do they get crazier and stay around? Do they implode and disappear? Do they win, because America is too stupid?

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:48:39pm

IN any case for a very very long time, denier types have consistently failed to read the articles they claim as proof. Again and again, when someone actually looks at teh science discussed, it says the opposite of what the anti-science people are saying. It has been noted on this blog many many times in teh past - and it will continue, that the denier sees one buzzword from the title of a paer that they think meshes with some talking point they have.

In the end, of course, the paper says the opposite of what they think it does. At this point a paper that actively challenged the main points of AGW is about as likely as a legitimate paper actively challenging evolution. This is not because of some vast scientific conspiracy to make republicans cry. This is because the big picture has so very many parts filled in that there is really only room for debate amongst the details. More importantly, the resolution of those details will not end up challenging the overall theory, because there is so much evidence for the overall theory from so very many different approaches, data sets and different lines of reasoning all leading to the same point.

Any "new theory" that would replace for AGW would have to explain everything we have already seen and documented - produce the same effects we already see, and expliain how somehow, CO2 was not doing everything we know it must do, but this other thing was.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:50:02pm

re: #28 sattv4u2

Ah, but you are wrong, kind sir

Can't recall the name of the place, but when we went to visit Auburn University with my son (one of the colleges he's applying too) in downtown Auburn there's an old fashioned apothecary complete with an old fashioned (and functioning) soda counter

of course, I was speaking in sentimental terms...as something becomes more obscure, somebody steps up with the next gen and does okay...I have not had a real chocolate soda in close to 50 years I'd guess

Mad Prophet Ludwig Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:50:42pm

re: #31 WindUpBird

I'm curious as to where the the GOP plot goes from here

do they get crazier and stay around? Do they implode and disappear? Do they win, because America is too stupid?

They delay meaningful action long enough that the situation deteriorates to a point that even a dumb hick Perry voter can't deny something is up. The only real question is when that point comes, and how much can still be saved afterwords.

Our generation will be the most hated in history by future generations.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:50:55pm

re: #31 WindUpBird

I'm curious as to where the the GOP plot goes from here

do they get crazier and stay around? Do they implode and disappear? Do they win, because America is too stupid?

me too...stay tuned, anything is possible so don't lay any bets

engineer cat Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:51:49pm

i suppose the opposite of the verb "to debunk" could be "to bunk"

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:52:09pm

re: #35 albusteve

me too...stay tuned, anything is possible so don't lay any bets

and of course, the optimist side of me would say it'll end up with Perry-or-Bachmann-whoever losing and the party gets its center back and ejects the TP-JBS types, but that's not looking as likely as it used to

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:52:38pm

re: #33 albusteve

of course, I was speaking in sentimental terms...as something becomes more obscure, somebody steps up with the next gen and does okay...I have not had a real chocolate soda in close to 50 years I'd guess

Found it (I believe)

Toomers Drugs, corner of South College and East Magnolia
[Link: www.toomersdrugs.com...]

Alexzander Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:53:35pm

Here ya go all y'all McCain voters:

Leaked wiki cable: John McCain pushed to arm Qadhafi

A leaked U.S. diplomatic cable shows that Arizona Republican Sen. John McCain promised to help Libyan dictator Muammar Qadhafi obtain U.S. military hardware in 2009.
The cable, released by the open information group WikiLeaks, reveals the pledge came at meeting that was attended by other prominent members of Congress, including Sens. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.).

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:55:31pm

re: #38 sattv4u2

Found it (I believe)

Toomers Drugs, corner of South College and East Magnolia
[Link: www.toomersdrugs.com...]

oh noez!...I've been working my ass trying to get back into shape...ice cream is a major vice for me....DON'T POST THAT STUFF!

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:56:03pm

re: #36 engineer dog

i suppose the opposite of the verb "to debunk" could be "to bunk"

To Bunk
Be Bunked
Be A Bunkee

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:57:34pm

half my sun room behind me is drenched, rain blowing thru the slider and windows....plants, furniture, brick floor...I love it...sorta indoor/outdoor at the bunkhouse

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:58:43pm

re: #40 albusteve

oh noez!...I've been working my ass trying to get back into shape...ice cream is a major vice for me...DON'T POST THAT STUFF!

It was Goooooooooddddd!!!

Had a late lunch there the day we arrived (opted for the Hot Fudge Brownie dessert,, son had the Banana Split)
Did our own tour of the campus. Went back there that night and we ALL had the Ice Cream Soda
Did the official campus tour the next day. Went BACK to Toomers for another late lunch with Ice Cream Sodas to go!

Varek Raith Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:59:14pm

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Aug 29, 2011 2:59:34pm

Another day, another denier claim debunked.
What makes them tick?

_{Well, aside from Exxon $$$}

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:00:04pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

How dare you, sir!

engineer cat Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:00:44pm

re: #41 sattv4u2

To Bunk
Be Bunked
Be A Bunkee

bunking the marks - a buncha suckerbunkers

Varek Raith Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:00:59pm

re: #46 Sergey Romanov

How dare you, sir!

*Adjusts monocle*
Hmm, quite.

sattv4u2 Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:01:59pm

re: #47 engineer dog

bunking the marks - a buncha suckerbunkers

Depends on whom I'm bunking wif!

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:02:00pm

re: #45 Sergey Romanov

Another day, another denier claim debunked.
What makes them tick?

_{Well, aside from Exxon $$$}

they don't read that stuff, neither do I...it's faith based and I have faith in the science...debunking is futile, gotta go around them

Alexzander Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:02:10pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

I saw that live today and I knew someone would upload it. Too funny.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:03:07pm

re: #37 WindUpBird

and of course, the optimist side of me would say it'll end up with Perry-or-Bachmann-whoever losing and the party gets its center back and ejects the TP-JBS types, but that's not looking as likely as it used to

They didn't learn the lesson with Palin on the ticket, and this crop is even crazier than she is. Losing just enhances their siege/victimized/poor us mentality. I don't see any way out of it anytime soon for the GOP.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:03:51pm

re: #51 Alexzander

I saw that live today and I knew someone would upload it. Too funny.

we have the smartest POTUS in the history of humans now...like, yawn

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:04:59pm

re: #48 Varek Raith

*Adjusts monocle*
Hmm, quite.

_{_{_{Psst. Your moustache... It's become unglued.}}}

Varek Raith Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:05:00pm

Hah!
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

Varek Raith Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:06:01pm

re: #54 Sergey Romanov

_{_{_{Psst. Your moustache... It's become unglued.}}}

Oh, my, how embarrassing.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:06:05pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

The fact that she's blond makes the quote even more priceless.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:06:07pm

re: #52 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They didn't learn the lesson with Palin on the ticket, and this crop is even crazier than she is. Losing just enhances their siege/victimized/poor us mentality. I don't see any way out of it anytime soon for the GOP.

and when they are finally defeated at the polls, we should all do a conga line....
God has spoken!
God rejects yooouuu!

HappyWarrior Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:07:01pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

Journalism today grumble. Yes, Megyn, it should. Would you want a medical school failure operating on you? I've seen it put here and elsewhere that the American people seem to value elitism as it pertains to athletics but disdain when it comes to things like intelligence.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:08:08pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

It does, especially to those who despise education, and resent those of us who have one.

But wtf kind of idiotic question is that, anyway? Stupid Fox News Victory Mosque...their audience is so effin ignorant.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:08:24pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

Journalism today grumble. Yes, Megyn, it should. Would you want a medical school failure operating on you? I've seen it put here and elsewhere that the American people seem to value elitism as it pertains to athletics but disdain when it comes to things like intelligence.

DEREK JETER FOR PRESIDENT!....
vote soon and vote often

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:09:28pm

re: #57 Dark_Falcon

The fact that she's blond makes the quote even more priceless.

I thought she's another Fox bottle blonde.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:10:10pm

re: #61 albusteve

DEREK JETER FOR PRESIDENT!...
vote soon and vote often

I'd vote for him! He's even prettier than Palin and Obama combined!

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:11:04pm

re: #63 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I'd vote for him! He's even prettier than Palin and Obama combined!

a Kalamazoo homey...my home town
terrific guy

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:11:21pm

re: #62 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I thought she's another Fox bottle blonde.

I think she's a natural blonde, but I'm not sure. They seem to only have ladies with blonde or black hair. I wish they'd get a redhead for variety.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:15:27pm

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

I think she's a natural blonde, but I'm not sure. They seem to only have ladies with blonde or black hair. I wish they'd get a redhead for variety.

why?...what's important about that?...oh yeah, AmIdol and all that

wrenchwench Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:18:12pm

re: #66 albusteve

why?...what's important about that?...oh yeah, AmIdol and all that

What? They're all on Midol???!?

You sexist pig!!1!!

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:19:58pm

re: #66 albusteve

why?...what's important about that?...oh yeah, AmIdol and all that

Steve - could you explain the Amidol reference? Not to DF above but in general?

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:22:05pm

re: #67 wrenchwench

What? They're all on Midol???!?

You sexist pig!!1!!

re: #68 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Steve - could you explain the Amidol reference? Not to DF above but in general?

politics as represented by the American Idol show...style over substance
good hair
nice shoes
blithering idiot
cha cha cha

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:22:43pm

re: #67 wrenchwench

What? They're all on Midol???!?

You sexist pig!!1!!

I was going to offer you a chop, then changed my mind

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:23:42pm

re: #69 albusteve

Ah. Thx.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:26:15pm

I have a new lifestyle....
gotta run to the market, where did I put my leg?

wrenchwench Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:26:26pm

It's not Downward Dog, it must be Downward Cat.

Youtube Video

engineer cat Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:26:44pm

and here i thought american idol was a show where innocent lambs were sacrificed to appease a collection of supernaturally powerful beings wearing frightening grimaces

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:27:13pm

re: #72 albusteve

I have a new lifestyle...
gotta run to the market, where did I put my leg?

Oh, just shut up and hop along now.

Killgore Trout Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:28:32pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

I skimmed that earlier and didn't really take it seriously. I don't think Perry is particularly stupid. Conservatives are really drawn to simplicity so his simple ideas and statements are a plus for him. Also since Republicans are really into fundamentalism these days it makes it easy for politicians to learn the dogma, lingo, have the right buzzwords, etc. Fundamentalism is the great equalizer: even though Palin's genuinely dumb her ideas are just as good as Perry's because they're quoting the same scripture. Intelligence becomes irrelevant.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:29:07pm

re: #75 darthstar

Oh, just shut up and hop along now.

last year after the chop...I posted that I had a new job at the IHOP....nobody got it...you guys are so...whatever

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:29:30pm

re: #72 albusteve

I have a new lifestyle...
gotta run to the market, where did I put my leg?

Are you running these days?

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:30:03pm

re: #78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Are you running these days?

only from the IRS....I'm getting winded tho

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:32:15pm

re: #77 albusteve

last year after the chop...I posted that I had a new job at the IHOP...nobody got it...you guys are so...whatever

You got a job at the International House of Prayer?

(Sorry, given current events, couldn't be avoided!)

lostlakehiker Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:33:05pm

re: #19 albusteve

AGW is a disorganized PR mess...it never recovered from last years ambush...Copenhagen was dismal failure and I agree with your pessimism...I would not know where to start to get it back on track

Winning in the political arena would be, and I trust will be, vastly easier if/when we get that next increment of technological improvements to green energy.

At some point, we may even cross the tipping point where coal simply loses out, on a straight dollars and cents basis, to wind. Or solar. But we don't absolutely have to have that. If the cost differential goes to coal, but only modestly, politics can make up the difference. As things now stand, convincing people that they should bite the bullet and pay twice, or four times, what they now pay for electricity, is a hard sell.

Denial sites that front for fossil fuel companies and softly whisper to the voting public that the science isn't settled yada yada have an easy task convincing voters. Bad news is never welcome.

So while working away at the politics is a duty, and it just might work, working away at the engineering is a good idea whether the politics can be managed or not, and it's necessary if the political process simply won't get us there.

The hard way to do this is to fail on both fronts. Then, reality will bite us so hard that the pain cannot be masked, and then, the hard sell will be for the denial ringleaders to explain why they thought it was a good idea to sacrifice what will then be today's generation, for the convenience of what is now today's generation.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:33:08pm

re: #79 albusteve

only from the IRS...I'm getting winded tho

Time for a Mary Mary tune (NSFAtheists)

Youtube Video

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:33:40pm

re: #78 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

actually I'm a very long way from that...learning to walk first and it's not easy...I have an unusual situation and use of my cool titanium leg gizmo can be very painful if I even slightly over do it...I went exactly a year on one leg...bad news, but thanks for asking...I'm fine, my spirit is strong and I work out everyday for a few hours...I think that might kill me tho

lostlakehiker Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:33:52pm

re: #72 albusteve

I have a new lifestyle...
gotta run to the market, where did I put my leg?

It's right by the hair of your shinny shin shin.

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:35:15pm

re: #66 albusteve

why?...what's important about that?...oh yeah, AmIdol and all that

I was just being silly.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:35:31pm

re: #80 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

You got a job at the International House of Prayer?

(Sorry, given current events, couldn't be avoided!)

I had a prayer a couple of years ago...broke down my guns and gave the bolts away...it was bad

Kronocide Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:36:24pm

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:36:35pm

re: #83 albusteve

Wow...it's been over a year already? Good luck with the new parts.

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:36:47pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

I was just being silly.

I know

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:38:46pm

re: #87 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

Banana.

I rest my case.

/really

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:39:06pm

re: #88 darthstar

Wow...it's been over a year already? Good luck with the new parts.

yeah...it all wizzed by pretty fast...I was so stoned for most of it I only recall the worst misery

Gus Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:39:25pm

OT Racist scumbag alert!

@thinkprogress ThinkProgress
Limbaugh: Colin Powell will vote for Obama again because "melanin is thicker than water." [Link: t.co...]

Kronocide Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:40:29pm

re: #90 Sergey Romanov

Banana.

I rest my case.

/really

Dude... banana + peanut butter = heaven. I just figured that out.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:40:44pm

re: #87 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

Link doesn't work, but is it about that genius, Pastor Mike?

Dark_Falcon Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:41:05pm

re: #92 Gus 802

OT Racist scumbag alert!

@thinkprogress ThinkProgress
Limbaugh: Colin Powell will vote for Obama again because "melanin is thicker than water." [Link: t.co...]

"Dog bites man." Rush spewing racism isn't alert worthy anymore, its just what he does. It's sick and ugly, but sadly normal.

BBL

Shiplord Kirel Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:41:42pm

re: #44 Varek Raith

Fox's Megyn Kelly On Presidential Elections: "Does It Matter -- Should It Matter -- If Somebody Is Dumb?"
Uh, yes.
Yes it should.

Idiocracy is here, led by the Marching Morons at Fox News.

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:41:59pm

re: #87 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

Heh...I like this one too. Mythbusters on whether God exists...

Youtube Video

wrenchwench Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:42:47pm

re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Link doesn't work, but is it about that genius, Pastor Mike?

Holy shit. And I mean that literally.

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:43:09pm

re: #92 Gus 802

OT Racist scumbag alert!

@thinkprogress ThinkProgress
Limbaugh: Colin Powell will vote for Obama again because "melanin is thicker than water." [Link: t.co...]

Hm, for someone in the party that supposedly prizes thinking for oneself, he sure has dumped on Colin Powell for doing exactly that.

100

Kronocide Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:43:36pm

re: #87 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

There, that should work.

101

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:43:59pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

Holy shit. And I mean that literally.

This, from the limited-government people. e_e

102

Gus Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:44:46pm

re: #99 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hm, for someone in the party that supposedly prizes thinking for oneself, he sure has dumped on Colin Powell for doing exactly that.

Republicans don't even know the meaning of the words liberty and independence. Rush Limbaugh is of course the defacto leader of the Republican Party.

103

Kronocide Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:45:04pm

re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Link doesn't work, but is it about that genius, Pastor Mike?

Yep, looks like the same guy. Dawkins and Hitchens are my pastors so I'm in the trouble!

104

darthstar Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:45:46pm

re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Link doesn't work, but is it about that genius, Pastor Mike?

Okay...where do I sign up?

105

Atlas Fails Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:46:33pm

re: #83 albusteve

actually I'm a very long way from that...learning to walk first and it's not easy...I have an unusual situation and use of my cool titanium leg gizmo can be very painful if I even slightly over do it...I went exactly a year on one leg...bad news, but thanks for asking...I'm fine, my spirit is strong and I work out everyday for a few hours...I think that might kill me tho

Good luck on your continued recovery!

106

Gus Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:46:44pm

re: #100 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

There, that should work.

Just another ignorant redneck drinking the "Jesus Juice."

107

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:46:48pm

base 1, we have an anomaly....
single male holed up in a residence called Ft Willow...refuses to register, refuses dialog...he seems to be yelling...come get some!...instructions, do we take him out?

108

albusteve Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:47:38pm

re: #105 Atlas Fails

Good luck on your continued recovery!

thanks

109

Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Aug 29, 2011 3:48:37pm

re: #100 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

There, that should work.

Well, I'm a rather militant atheist (of the atheistic agnostic sort, if you will), and I don't care for this news - it's just something some Phelps type wrote in an obscure blog. Now, if Fischer picks it up...

110

b_sharp Mon, Aug 29, 2011 4:24:18pm

re: #100 BigPapa

Christian wants atheist registry

I guess so they can mail us DVD's on how peanut butter proves evolution is false. LOL

There, that should work.

Well, that made my day.

111

Atlas Fails Mon, Aug 29, 2011 4:24:34pm

re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Link doesn't work, but is it about that genius, Pastor Mike?

Wow, that guy's site is treasure trove of batshit insanity. He hates atheists and Catholics, neither of which is surprising, but he seems to really have it in for Seventh Day Adventists, for some strange reason. And he probably votes...

Spy Mode Auto

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