Fox Poll: Rick Perry’s Taking Off

Michele Bachmann inconsolable
Politics • Views: 28,488

The latest Fox News poll contains bad news for Romney, Bachmann, and Palin.

Rick Perry has the religious right solidly on his side, more than any GOP candidate in a long time.

Perry receives the support of 26 percent of GOP primary voters in the new poll. That’s up from 13 percent in early August and enough to edge out Romney as frontrunner. Currently Romney captures 18 percent, down from 21 percent (August 7-9).

No other candidate garners double-digit support.

Palin receives 8 percent and Texas Rep. Ron Paul comes in at 7 percent. Minnesota Rep. Michele Bachmann captures the backing of 4 percent, down from a high of 11 percent in late June. Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and businessman Herman Cain also garner 4 percent each. Another 4 percent support former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, even though he has said he is not running and his name wasn’t included in the question.

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808 comments
1 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 5:51:59pm

Taking off?

When he reaches 50', pull out the pea shooters and bring him back down to earth.

2 Jaerik  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 5:53:40pm

Organized religion wants power. Organized religion invokes tribalism. Tribalism compels voters into hands of cynical, powerful people. Powerful people then work to deliver more power into the hands of religion.

It's a neat little symbiotic relationship.

3 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 5:55:13pm

wingnut crack taking effect, delusions of omnipotence and grandeur soon to become more and more obvious

4 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 5:57:13pm

re: #2 Jaerik

Organized religion wants power. Organized religion invokes tribalism. Tribalism compels voters into hands of cynical, powerful people. Powerful people then work to deliver more power into the hands of religion.

It's a neat little symbiotic relationship.

It's called a positive feedback* loop. The rest of us have to take part in a negative feedback loop.

*Something tells me 'feedbag' might be appropriate.

5 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 5:57:42pm

So DF (assuming you're on) I trust if Gov Goodhair wins you're an Obama man come November?

6 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 5:59:15pm

re: #5 jamesfirecat

So DF (assuming you're on) I trust if Gov Goodhair wins you're an Obama man come November?

Stop teasing the man.

7 dragonfire1981  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:00:12pm

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

8 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:00:17pm

re: #6 b_sharp

Stop teasing the man.

You have to hit rock bottom before you can start climbing back up, it'll be good for him.

9 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:02:30pm

Ring, ring, ring....
"Hello"?
"Hello, my name is CCA and I'm conducting Rick Perry a poll for Fox news".
"Hello? What did you say besides the fact you're conducting a poll"?
"Rick Perry I was just wondering who you will be voting for Rick Perry in the 2012 elections for PresidentRick Perry"?
"I'm not quite understanding you. Why do you keep saying Rick Perry"?
"Ma'am or sir, Rick Perry I'm looking for your honest opinion on who you will vote for Rick Perry in the 2012 Presidential Rick Perry election"?
"RON PAUL!!!"
"Thank you Rick Perry for taking part in out Presidential Rick Perry poll".

10 bratwurst  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:03:00pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

I am serious as a heart attack about that unfortunate but real possibility.

11 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:03:04pm

re: #8 jamesfirecat

You have to hit rock bottom before you can start climbing back up, it'll be good for him.

Unless you're a geologist, or bipolar - both occupations where rock bottom gets hit repeatedly.

12 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:03:35pm

"...since jumping into the 2012 GOP nomination race on Saturday, Mr. Perry has tempered his Social Security views. His communications director, Ray Sullivan, said Thursday that he had "never heard" the governor suggest the program was unconstitutional."

Earless Ray.

13 blueraven  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:04:46pm

re: #8 jamesfirecat

You have to hit rock bottom before you can start climbing back up, it'll be good for him.

Really James, DF is entitled to vote for whomever he wishes without your superior attitude. Rock Bottom?

I despise Perry and will talk to anyone to point out how awful he is, but attack Perry, not DF.

14 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:05:30pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

I think the litmus test will be how well he debates..I've never heard him..
If he is good he very well could be the GOP nominee..I don't know the man but he sure took the oxygen out of the building..We'll see how good he is next week.. Then He'll be judged on how well he can go against Obama in a debate..

15 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:06:16pm

re: #13 blueraven

Really James, DF is entitled to vote for whomever he wishes without your superior attitude. Rock Bottom?

I despise Perry and will talk to anyone to point out how awful he is, but attack Perry, not DF.

The intent of my analogy was to suggest that with Rick Perry's nomination the GOP will be hitting rock bottom not DF.

I'm sorry I didn't intend to insult anyone.

16 blueraven  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:08:28pm

re: #15 jamesfirecat

The intent of my analogy was to suggest that with Rick Perry's nomination the GOP will be hitting rock bottom not DF.

I'm sorry I didn't intend to insult anyone.

Well you said "him"..."it will be good for him". If I misunderstood, then you have my apology as well.

17 aagcobb  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:09:16pm

re: #14 HoosierHoops

I think the litmus test will be how well he debates..I've never heard him..
If he is good he very well could be the GOP nominee..I don't know the man but he sure took the oxygen out of the building..We'll see how good he is next week.. Then He'll be judged on how well he can go against Obama in a debate..

The problem is that there is no real alternative. Romney simply doesn't show any ability to connect with voters, and his faith and Romneycare are albatrosses around his neck. The rest of the GOP field is a joke. If Perry doesn't stumble, I don't know who can stop him from taking the nomination.

18 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:10:34pm

re: #17 aagcobb

Spot on cobb

19 jamesfirecat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:11:23pm

re: #16 blueraven

Well you said "him"..."it will be good for him". If I misunderstood, then you have my apology as well.

To rephrase the meaning of what I was going for *AHEM*

The GOP needs to hit rock bottom before it can start getting better.

Seeing it hit rock bottom will be good for Dark since only once the GOP bottoms out and realizes the tea party crazies alone can't get them elected will have a chance to kick them to the curb and start appealing to sane people again.


That spells it out about as clearly as I can sorry for the miscomunication.

20 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:15:34pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

He will end up being the nominee. And, to be honest, I think it's a better than 50/50 that he wins the Presidency.

21 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:15:47pm

Anyone else as bored as I am?

22 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:18:17pm

re: #20 Renaissance_Man

He will end up being the nominee. And, to be honest, I think it's a better than 50/50 that he wins the Presidency.

No odds till I hear him debate.. Then trust me..I'll be putting some kind of odds down...

23 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:20:31pm

re: #22 HoosierHoops

No odds till I hear him debate.. Then trust me..I'll be putting some kind of odds down...

I think what he says in debates only matter to voters that care about what candidates say. Most voters know only what media tells them candidates say.

24 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:20:47pm

re: #21 b_sharp

Anyone else as bored as I am?

Colts and Bengals are tied up in the 4th quarter...

25 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:21:00pm

I don't know if you saw this page I posted

How Rick Perry Got Rich

Back in 1993, there was a piece of ground that computer billionaire Michael Dell needed to connect his new house near Austin to city water mains. Dell neglected to appreciate the land’s importance. But Perry did discern it. He bought the land for less than $120,000 – then sold it to Dell two years later for a $343,000 profit. Uncanny. True, some detractors have wondered whether the sale was entirely on the level...

I'm sure the Texans here have more input, but damn. And it's from David Frum.

26 BishopX  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:21:52pm

He's the Bright shiny new thing. Of course he's going to do well. The convention is still 11 months away. Peaking now isn't going to be good for him.

27 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:22:23pm

It's going to be funny watching Perry try to go to the center now that his book is out.

Perry/Whozit 2012 "He Didn't Mean It that Way"

28 b_sharp  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:22:51pm

re: #24 HoosierHoops

Colts and Bengals are tied up in the 4th quarter...

20 Quatloos on the Colts.

29 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:24:20pm

re: #17 aagcobb

The problem is that there is no real alternative. Romney simply doesn't show any ability to connect with voters, and his faith and Romneycare are albatrosses around his neck. The rest of the GOP field is a joke. If Perry doesn't stumble, I don't know who can stop him from taking the nomination.

My money's on Sister Sarah trying to take Perry's oxygen from the room, with the help of the baffled media at her beck & call.

It's going to be crazee.

30 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:26:19pm

re: #26 BishopX

He's the Bright shiny new thing. Of course he's going to do well. The convention is still 11 months away. Peaking now isn't going to be good for him.

In America..In Politics..All things are possible..
Remember Back to the Future? The Professor asked who was President in the future...
Ronald Reagan
THE ACTOR?! HA HA

31 darthstar  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:27:02pm

re: #29 Stanley Sea

My money's on Sister Sarah trying to take Perry's oxygen from the room, with the help of the baffled media at her beck & call.

It's going to be crazee.

CNN invited the grifter to their debate

32 Iwouldprefernotto  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:29:44pm

Prediction: Perry loses to Obama. It will look like a race until the debates.

33 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:30:39pm

re: #32 Iwouldprefernotto

Perry's people will delay debating as long as possible.

34 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:32:12pm

re: #31 darthstar

CNN invited the grifter to their debate

And she chickened out I'm sure. Did you read about the kerfluffle she's having with the teabaggers in Iowa and her show/not show at their event? (If Christine O'Donnell's there, no show. Christine was subsequently scrapped) But of course, it's still not clear if the pageant will go on.

35 aagcobb  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:34:57pm

re: #29 Stanley Sea

My money's on Sister Sarah trying to take Perry's oxygen from the room, with the help of the baffled media at her beck & call.

It's going to be crazee.

I don't believe she's going to run. Its too big a commitment for her.

36 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:36:20pm

i wouldn't count anybody out or even venture predictions this early and in such a difficult economic time, but if perry becomes president it will be despite a stumbling and off key early rollout

37 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:37:48pm

re: #33 jaunte

Perry's people will delay debating as long as possible.

I don't think so.. Perry has opened up right off the bat and he was a yeller at A&M.. Anything can happen in a debate...
We've had lines in debates that changed everything
there you go again
..or You sir are no JFK..
To Bush looking at his watch while Clinton was talking about the economy
I never put down odds till after the debates..It is everything

38 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:40:56pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

I'd wait to see him in the debates. Perry has managed to avoid doing a lot of debating in his 10 years as governor. If he's a good debater I'd say he's got the nomination. And no matter what he will pull at least 45% of the vote no matter how crazy or pig ignorant he is.

39 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:41:56pm

Former campaign manager for Gore is GOP front-runner.

40 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:42:41pm

Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, and Frank Gaffney must be inconsolable now that the "stealth-Jidhadist" Rick Perry has taken a big lead.

41 Coracle  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:43:03pm

I can't see moderates and independents voting for Perry. Not with his religious views.

42 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:44:32pm

re: #37 HoosierHoops

I would have liked to have seen him debate Bill White.

"His handlers do not want him to have to speak without a script," White said.

43 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:45:19pm

Like I said before, it's a race now between Perry and Romney over who gets which spot on the final ticket. The rest of the pack will likely fade out in coming months and be done away with come the first round of primaries.

44 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:46:42pm

re: #32 Iwouldprefernotto

Prediction: Perry loses to Obama. It will look like a race until the debates.

That's what happened in 2008.

45 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:47:53pm

re: #41 Coracle

I can't see moderates and independents voting for Perry. Not with his religious views.

The only way the GOP has a real chance of winning next November is to turn this election into a referendum on Obama. They have to convince voters that it's not a matter of voting in favor of Perry, but against Obama and his "record" as the GOP interprets it. It's going to be about minimizing Perry's negatives and maximizing Obama's.

46 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:49:40pm

re: #38 moderatelyradicalliberal

I'd wait to see him in the debates. Perry has managed to avoid doing a lot of debating in his 10 years as governor. If he's a good debater I'd say he's got the nomination. And no matter what he will pull at least 45% of the vote no matter how crazy or pig ignorant he is.

I agree..
But I think It's really important that we concentrate on the dumbness and simpleminded of Rick Perry's policies for goverance for America
I don't agree with most of them..
But.. He is not a Dumb man...From what I have read he was an Officer and fighter pilot...His Military record is stellar.. 99.99% of people can't even get considered for flight school.. So he isn't dumb..It's not like this is Sarah Palin.. It's his policies that must be rebuffed...

47 Coracle  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:50:39pm

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I agree. And it's going to be a close one. But I don't think any Rep at this juncture can win.

48 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:51:19pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

To rephrase the meaning of what I was going for *AHEM*

The GOP needs to hit rock bottom before it can start getting better.

Seeing it hit rock bottom will be good for Dark since only once the GOP bottoms out and realizes the tea party crazies alone can't get them elected will have a chance to kick them to the curb and start appealing to sane people again.

That spells it out about as clearly as I can sorry for the miscomunication.

Once the GOP hits bottom? Good Lord what is the bottom? I'm beginning to think they don't have one. I thought GWB was the bottom and then they had Palin and then the birthers and then the TPers and then Bachmann. Now they've got Perry and we're back to GWB minus GWB's good qualities. Peak Wingnut Theory was a lie.

[Link: www.balloon-juice.com...]

49 recusancy  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:52:32pm

re: #5 jamesfirecat

So DF (assuming you're on) I trust if Gov Goodhair wins you're an Obama man come November?

I thought he was pulling for Gov Goodhair? It's Perry he doesn't like.

50 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:54:13pm

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The only way the GOP has a real chance of winning next November is to turn this election into a referendum on Obama. They have to convince voters that it's not a matter of voting in favor of Perry, but against Obama and his "record" as the GOP interprets it. It's going to be about minimizing Perry's negatives and maximizing Obama's.

I believe that was Walter Mondale and John Kerry's strategy. Incumbent President's don't have that hard a time making their opponents unacceptable and there is a lot of unacceptable about Perry even before you get to GWB deja vu.

51 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:55:36pm

re: #47 Coracle

I agree. And it's going to be a close one. But I don't think any Rep at this juncture can win.

Again, it's about making out Obama as the second-coming of Carter, as being a "failure" upon whom all the problems of America right now can be pinned. And it's likewise about continuing to pound home that the stimulus was a "failure" and that Obamacare is "bad" for America. Every one of his successes has been either marginalized or repainted as something that would make Orwell shiver in fright.

Sadly, I think Perry might be the best guy for the job. His proposals scare the ever-loving shit out of me, but when it comes to selling snake oil, he's a genius.

52 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:58:14pm

re: #51 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Again, it's about making out Obama as the second-coming of Carter, as being a "failure" upon whom all the problems of America right now can be pinned. And it's likewise about continuing to pound home that the stimulus was a "failure" and that Obamacare is "bad" for America. Every one of his successes has been either marginalized or repainted as something that would make Orwell shiver in fright.

Sadly, I think Perry might be the best guy for the job. His proposals scare the ever-loving shit out of me, but when it comes to selling snake oil, he's a genius.

Remember the way Ed Harris played John Glenn in "The Right Stuff"? Especially the part where he first speaks to the public? That's the kind of routine that Rick Perry will pull during the campaign and the debates.

53 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:59:12pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

To rephrase the meaning of what I was going for *AHEM*

The GOP needs to hit rock bottom before it can start getting better.

Seeing it hit rock bottom will be good for Dark since only once the GOP bottoms out and realizes the tea party crazies alone can't get them elected will have a chance to kick them to the curb and start appealing to sane people again.

That spells it out about as clearly as I can sorry for the miscomunication.

That's just a matter of time, insured by demographics. The TP may help the gop win in the very short run. But a protest movement built on white cultural resentment can't last long in a nation where the majority of babies born now are non-white. There's a reason blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Asians, gays, and many women don't find an organization that wants to return to the 1950s (or 1770s, "let's go back to the days of the founders!") in the least bit attractive.

54 freetoken  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 6:59:23pm

re: #45 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

The only way the GOP has a real chance of winning next November is to turn this election into a referendum on Obama.

I think the only way Obama loses in 2012 is if we are slipping back into a recession and unemployment goes up between now and then.

If that happens, then any petty demagogue with pretty hair and a slick tongue will be able to make a race of it.

55 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:02:17pm

Colts Score..1 minute left!
I'm fainting..We looked like crap all night..Colts have issues right now..
*fall to knees*
Dear baby Jesus.. Please heal Peyton Manning tonight.. Let him rise up out of the AFC South and Slay thy enemies..
Heal our Defense and keep our knees Strong..
Deliver our Division and smite the Texans..
In your name we pray..
Amen

56 freetoken  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:03:20pm

Carson Kressley Almost Paired With Male Partner On "DWTS"

Former "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" star Carson Kressley will dance with professional Anna Trebunskaya, but a "Dancing with the Stars" producer has revealed that they once considered pairing him with another man.

"We thought about it," "DWTS" executive producer Conrad Green told E! Online.

[...]

Rick Perry would not have approved.

57 recusancy  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:05:19pm

re: #56 freetoken

Carson Kressley Almost Paired With Male Partner On "DWTS"

Rick Perry would not have approved.

They should have. It would have been a big cultural step.

58 CarleeCork  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:05:21pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

As a Texan I must concur. If elected he will finish this country off.

Be afraid, very afraid. He's Bush times 100.

59 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:06:35pm

re: #54 freetoken

I think the only way Obama loses in 2012 is if we are slipping back into a recession and unemployment goes up between now and then.

If that happens, then any petty demagogue with pretty hair and a slick tongue will be able to make a race of it.

I wish I was as optimistic as you guys. Historically presidents don't often get reelected when the economy sucks. And there's little hope of a major recovery between now and late 2012...this is, after all, the worst recession by far since the Great Depression. I think a lot of voters who are suffering economically will just say, "Well, Obama had his chance and things haven't gotten much better, so I'll give the other guy a chance, even if he's a little extreme." That's not a particularly intelligent way of looking at it, but our electorate isn't necessarily all that bright.

60 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:08:12pm

re: #51 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Again, it's about making out Obama as the second-coming of Carter, as being a "failure" upon whom all the problems of America right now can be pinned. And it's likewise about continuing to pound home that the stimulus was a "failure" and that Obamacare is "bad" for America. Every one of his successes has been either marginalized or repainted as something that would make Orwell shiver in fright.

Sadly, I think Perry might be the best guy for the job. His proposals scare the ever-loving shit out of me, but when it comes to selling snake oil, he's a genius.

Before you call Perry a genius you must consider the market he's been selling in, namely Texas. A deep, deep red state, that no Democrat has a won a statewide election in for 20 years. Perry selling his bullshit in Texas would be a lot like selling bananas to monkeys. He hasn't had to work all that damn hard. If Jesus came down and ran for governor of Texas as a Democrat, most white Texans would renounce Christianity and still vote for the Republican. That's how red Texas is. He's never had to give a speech before the AARP after calling SS and Medicare unconstitutional ponzi schemes. He's never had to campaign in northern and Midwestern states after calling for Texas to secede and he's never had to speak before Jewish groups after his no Jews invited prayer rally. Perry has no experience with these audiences and I don't think he's ready at all. And as far as debating goes, he really hasn't had any practice with that either. Obama will eat his ass alive. Especially when he reminds Perry of how it was partially Obama's stimulus package that allowed Texas to "close" the 27 billion budget shortfall that occurred on Perry's watch and that Texas has the highest rate of uninsured children in the country. Also on Perry's watch.

61 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:10:28pm

Perry: Defund Texas Arts, Historical Commissions

The nearly 60-year-old Texas Historical Commission is the 200-worker agency that installs and maintains nearly 12,000 historical markers statewide and administers federal and state preservation statutes. It’s a key player in the work to rebuild the arson-damaged Governor’s Mansion and, notably, disagreed with a plan backed by first lady Anita Perry to build an addition onto the Governor’s Mansion (the addition was later scaled back).
......
The agency also oversees archaeological projects like the excavation and restoration of the Belle, a ship that sank in 1686 in Matagorda Bay. The ship was part of a failed expedition by French explorer La Salle, and the Historical Commission has called it one of the most important shipwrecks ever discovered in North America.
[Link: www.texastribune.org...]

63 CarleeCork  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:11:50pm

re: #60 moderatelyradicalliberal
You misunderestimate him.

64 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:12:45pm

re: #59 palomino

I wish I was as optimistic as you guys. Historically presidents don't often get reelected when the economy sucks. And there's little hope of a major recovery between now and late 2012...this is, after all, the worst recession by far since the Great Depression. I think a lot of voters who are suffering economically will just say, "Well, Obama had his chance and things haven't gotten much better, so I'll give the other guy a chance, even if he's a little extreme." That's not a particularly intelligent way of looking at it, but our electorate isn't necessarily all that bright.

I would add something to that. President's don't often get reelected when the economy sucks and they are personally disliked and they have an intra-party challenge and a strong opponent. So far all of these things are not true for Obama. If you look at history, you find most if not all of those things happened to presidents that lost reelection. Obama has a fight coming, but so does the GOP.

65 freetoken  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:13:01pm

re: #61 jaunte

We don't need no stinkin' Arkyollogy!

66 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:13:31pm

re: #54 freetoken

I think the only way Obama loses in 2012 is if we are slipping back into a recession and unemployment goes up between now and then.

If that happens, then any petty demagogue with pretty hair and a slick tongue will be able to make a race of it.

Yes, it will be all about the economy. (My seat-of-the-pants guess: the economic pessimism is overdone but the risk is real.)

Perry strikes me as somebody who talks free markets and practices crony capitalism. Meh. The real concern is his religious extremism.

His people will try to keep the focus on the economy and, except for the artful use of dog whistles, distract from the religious kookery. It's important that they not get away with it.

67 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:13:56pm

re: #60 moderatelyradicalliberal

Before you call Perry a genius you must consider the market he's been selling in, namely Texas. A deep, deep red state, that no Democrat has a won a statewide election in for 20 years. Perry selling his bullshit in Texas would be a lot like selling bananas to monkeys. He hasn't had to work all that damn hard. If Jesus came down and ran for governor of Texas as a Democrat, most white Texans would renounce Christianity and still vote for the Republican. That's how red Texas is. He's never had to give a speech before the AARP after calling SS and Medicare unconstitutional ponzi schemes. He's never had to campaign in northern and Midwestern states after calling for Texas to secede and he's never had to speak before Jewish groups after his no Jews invited prayer rally. Perry has no experience with these audiences and I don't think he's ready at all. And as far as debating goes, he really hasn't had any practice with that either. Obama will eat his ass alive. Especially when he reminds Perry of how it was partially Obama's stimulus package that allowed Texas to "close" the 27 billion budget shortfall that occurred on Perry's watch and that Texas has the highest rate of uninsured children in the country. Also on Perry's watch.

If we were talking the Obama of '08, the charismatic stallion who ran circles around McCain, I'd have your level of confidence. But the reality is we've got the Obama of '11, who right now has the albatross that is a piss-poor recovery hung around his neck. Right now, the American people are so desperate for somebody who can create jobs, that Perry's flaws could very well be ruled as inconsequential. All he has to do is hold up the job growth in Texas and declare it "proof" that his formula works. The devil may be in the details, but nobody's gonna be interested in the details, not so long as they can't be compressed into 10-second soundbytes.

Which do you think will sell easier to Average Joe Sixpack: A Perry ad showing "job growth" in Texas since he's been in office, or a long report on page A14 of the local paper showing how the "miracle" is so much horseshit?

68 recusancy  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:15:41pm

U.S. Is Set to Sue a Dozen Big Banks Over Mortgages

69 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:15:59pm

re: #60 moderatelyradicalliberal

Before you call Perry a genius you must consider the market he's been selling in, namely Texas. A deep, deep red state, that no Democrat has a won a statewide election in for 20 years. Perry selling his bullshit in Texas would be a lot like selling bananas to monkeys. He hasn't had to work all that damn hard. If Jesus came down and ran for governor of Texas as a Democrat, most white Texans would renounce Christianity and still vote for the Republican. That's how red Texas is. He's never had to give a speech before the AARP after calling SS and Medicare unconstitutional ponzi schemes. He's never had to campaign in northern and Midwestern states after calling for Texas to secede and he's never had to speak before Jewish groups after his no Jews invited prayer rally. Perry has no experience with these audiences and I don't think he's ready at all. And as far as debating goes, he really hasn't had any practice with that either. Obama will eat his ass alive. Especially when he reminds Perry of how it was partially Obama's stimulus package that allowed Texas to "close" the 27 billion budget shortfall that occurred on Perry's watch and that Texas has the highest rate of uninsured children in the country. Also on Perry's watch.

It really doesn't matter how many Jewish groups Perry speak to. They will by and large vote for the Democratic candidate, Obama. The independent voters won't think much of uninsured children in Texas because of Perry. "Not think" in that they might have concerns but the final reasoning for them will be economy. People will vote with their wallets in the end. Life long Democrats will vote for Obama. The key for both Obama and Perry [if he wins] will be attracting the independent voters. In the case of Obama he will have to rebuild his case for why they should vote for him and use many of the issues you point out.

70 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:16:40pm

re: #68 recusancy

U.S. Is Set to Sue a Dozen Big Banks Over Mortgages

Yeah, unfortunately, they're two years too late. They should have been kicking ass and taking names when those same banks were sucking up TARP funds gladly.

71 recusancy  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:17:25pm

re: #70 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, unfortunately, they're two years too late. They should have been kicking ass and taking names when those same banks were sucking up TARP funds gladly.

Always the pessimist. Better late then never.

72 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:20:41pm

Texas raids fund for poor to keep taxes low

Texas utility customers pay a little extra on their bills that is supposed to go into a fund to help the poor cover their own utility payments. But in a year of record heat, less than half the fund is being paid out, forcing people to do without air conditioning in triple-digit temperatures.

CBS reports that the Texas legislature has repeatedly approved raiding the fund in order to balance its budget without raising taxes.

It's another Texas Miracle!

73 recusancy  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:21:46pm

re: #72 jaunte

Texas raids fund for poor to keep taxes low

It's another Texas Miracle!

Supply side econ!

74 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:23:45pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If we were talking the Obama of '08, the charismatic stallion who ran circles around McCain, I'd have your level of confidence. But the reality is we've got the Obama of '11, who right now has the albatross that is a piss-poor recovery hung around his neck. Right now, the American people are so desperate for somebody who can create jobs, that Perry's flaws could very well be ruled as inconsequential. All he has to do is hold up the job growth in Texas and declare it "proof" that his formula works. The devil may be in the details, but nobody's gonna be interested in the details, not so long as they can't be compressed into 10-second soundbytes.

Which do you think will sell easier to Average Joe Sixpack: A Perry ad showing "job growth" in Texas since he's been in office, or a long report on page A14 of the local paper showing how the "miracle" is so much horseshit?

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm tired of the notion that Average Joe Sixpack determines elections. If they did, we'd be discussing the reelection prospects of McCain/Palin. The fact is the people who have suffered the most in this lousy economy and who always suffer the most in lousy economies are going to vote for Obama. And the people who vote the most often won't take kindly to campaign ads about SS and Medicare being unconstitutional. There goes Florida.

Look, Rick Perry is my governor, I know him as well as any other politician in America and I'm not scared of him. Not at all.

75 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:24:27pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

If we were talking the Obama of '08, the charismatic stallion who ran circles around McCain, I'd have your level of confidence. But the reality is we've got the Obama of '11, who right now has the albatross that is a piss-poor recovery hung around his neck. Right now, the American people are so desperate for somebody who can create jobs, that Perry's flaws could very well be ruled as inconsequential. All he has to do is hold up the job growth in Texas and declare it "proof" that his formula works. The devil may be in the details, but nobody's gonna be interested in the details, not so long as they can't be compressed into 10-second soundbytes.

Which do you think will sell easier to Average Joe Sixpack: A Perry ad showing "job growth" in Texas since he's been in office, or a long report on page A14 of the local paper showing how the "miracle" is so much horseshit?

One of the stark realities is that a lot of people have already made up their minds. Then it would be a matter of convincing them to vote for Obama again. Something akin to "four more years". The only way out of this would be to run a fear campaign built upon the what ifs regarding a Perry presidency. Independents won't care about creationism, birth certificates, climate change, etc. It will be about the economy, the economy, the economy.

76 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:26:54pm

i just don't feel perry getting close to winning yet in my gut

carter you could tell could never put it across from the bully pulpit, and george senior wasn't a political killer either, especially when faced with a natural like clinton

obama, on the other hand, does have political skills and a good presence, and perry somehow doesn't seem to me to fit the bill for a leader of a conservative rebellion that could win the center like reagan did

reagan was smoooooth, perry ain't

77 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:27:06pm

re: #74 moderatelyradicalliberal

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm tired of the notion that Average Joe Sixpack determines elections. If they did, we'd be discussing the reelection prospects of McCain/Palin. The fact is the people who have suffered the most in this lousy economy and who always suffer the most in lousy economies are going to vote for Obama. And the people who vote the most often won't take kindly to campaign ads about SS and Medicare being unconstitutional. There goes Florida.

Look, Rick Perry is my governor, I know him as well as any other politician in America and I'm not scared of him. Not at all.

But Perry's rhetoric about Social Security isn't targeting seniors already on Social Security. He's trying to attract a younger voter with this. Even if there were concerns from seniors many of them are easily beguiled with jingoistic patriotism which Perry is good at. IOW, all Perry has to do is wrap himself around the American flag and all their worries are gone as they harken back to their younger days of the "greatest generation."

78 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:27:07pm

re: #75 Gus 802

Perry attracted business to Texas from other states using subsidies; it's a game that won't scale up to the whole nation.

79 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:28:14pm

re: #67 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

the Obama of '11, who right now has the albatross that is a piss-poor recovery hung around his neck.

with the economy in the shape that it's in, he should be polling in the 20s, not hovering around 40%

80 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:28:55pm

re: #78 jaunte

Perry attracted business to Texas from other states using subsidies; it's a game that won't scale up to the whole nation.

Yes. But that's if you can get the nations attention. Not with a 60 second campaign spot which is put on mute by most households. People don't watch the news. Some do but the majority of Americans don't watch news, read the newspapers, or read online news sources. Most Americans are watching football, True Blood, Glee, etc. If they are talking politics it's usually around the water cooler.

81 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:30:16pm

re: #75 Gus 802

One of the stark realities is that a lot of people have already made up their minds. Then it would be a matter of convincing them to vote for Obama again. Something akin to "four more years". The only way out of this would be to run a fear campaign built upon the what ifs regarding a Perry presidency. Independents won't care about creationism, birth certificates, climate change, etc. It will be about the economy, the economy, the economy.

You say that as if that hasn't worked before. Reagan did it to Mondale and Bush did it to Kerry. As far as independents are concerned, they may not care about these issues, but Democrats sure do. Perry will energize Democrats, even the one's who are disappointed in Obama. I know I don't want President Invasive Vaginal Sonogram. Obama could also remind those independents that the last time they didn't care about those things they got GWB and how good was he for the economy?

82 freetoken  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:30:50pm

re: #78 jaunte

Are you denying that Rick Perry is Best Governor We’ve Ever Had?

84 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:32:27pm

re: #82 freetoken

I'm sure Rick Scarborough thinks Mike Huckabee's band really rocks, too.

85 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:32:33pm

re: #79 engineer dog

with the economy in the shape that it's in, he should be polling in the 20s, not hovering around 40%

That's because contrary to what the MSM would have you believe, his base is solid. They ain't going nowhere. If Perry comes across as enough of a GWB clone, he'll get enough independent back too.

86 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:33:21pm

re: #59 palomino

I wish I was as optimistic as you guys. Historically presidents don't often get reelected when the economy sucks. And there's little hope of a major recovery between now and late 2012...this is, after all, the worst recession by far since the Great Depression. I think a lot of voters who are suffering economically will just say, "Well, Obama had his chance and things haven't gotten much better, so I'll give the other guy a chance, even if he's a little extreme." That's not a particularly intelligent way of looking at it, but our electorate isn't necessarily all that bright.

The thing is, Obama is no Jimmy Carter or GHWB, and no one on the R side is Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton. Pointy Boots has the shit to take the R nom, but in the general, he will scare the fuck out of the I's.

The thing is, the rest of the Rs are going to try to portray him as Too Conservative, which is hilarious because, except for Huntsman (to a small degree), they have all been galloping to the far right.

He's got 'em by the short rabbits (an actual subtitle I saw in a Hong Kong hop'n'chop movie).

87 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:33:34pm

re: #81 moderatelyradicalliberal

You say that as if that hasn't worked before. Reagan did it to Mondale and Bush did it to Kerry. As far as independents are concerned, they may not care about these issues, but Democrats sure do. Perry will energize Democrats, even the one's who are disappointed in Obama. I know I don't want President Invasive Vaginal Sonogram. Obama could also remind those independents that the last time they didn't care about those things they got GWB and how good was he for the economy?

No. I say that because I've seen the Democrats reject this strategy before. Note the two examples you have given. It was what Reagan did to Mondale. It was what Bush did to Kerry. The Democrats have to be willing then to adopt what has traditionally been a Republican strategy and one built around fear. If they choose to take the "high road" then it won't happen. They have to be willing to do this. I'm sure they will anyway and it won't be directly from the White House but from PACs and non-profit organizations. But they have to play hard and fast and be willing to go for the jugular.

88 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:33:36pm

re: #82 freetoken

Are you denying that Rick Perry is Best Governor We’ve Ever Had?

Has Texas had such a fantastic track record that that's a ridiculous claim?

89 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:33:59pm

re: #74 moderatelyradicalliberal

You'll have to forgive me, but I'm tired of the notion that Average Joe Sixpack determines elections. If they did, we'd be discussing the reelection prospects of McCain/Palin. The fact is the people who have suffered the most in this lousy economy and who always suffer the most in lousy economies are going to vote for Obama. And the people who vote the most often won't take kindly to campaign ads about SS and Medicare being unconstitutional. There goes Florida.

Look, Rick Perry is my governor, I know him as well as any other politician in America and I'm not scared of him. Not at all.

Perry will likely take the same track with Medicare and Social Security as Ryan did, as most Republican have been in recent years: "We're not going to throw people off them right now, we're just going to 'reform' them for future generations."

Obama's already on record as being in agreement with the idea of reform, and that's all that's going to matter. When he takes issue with Perry over both, the response will be "Well, haven't you already said they need 'reform'?" Followed by whatever numbers they need to show that the programs simply can't be kept as-is and not fall apart in the next few years/decades.

90 BishopX  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:35:47pm

The other thing to realize is that the last time an incumbent lost it was a 3rd party candidate that killed him. An incumbent hasn't lost in 32 years.

91 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:36:02pm

re: #87 Gus 802

No. I say that because I've seen the Democrats reject this strategy before. Note the two examples you have given. It was Reagan did to Mondale. It was Bush did to Kerry. The Democrats have to be willing then to adopt what has traditionally been a Republican strategy and one built around fear. If they choose to take the "high road" then it won't happen. They have to be willing to do this. I'm sure they will anyway and it won't be directly from the White House but from PACs and non-profit organizations. But they have to play hard and fast and be willing to go for the jugular.

Agreed. Obama has to be willing to get down and dirty, to wallow in the mud if need be, in order to show the worst of Perry and his ideology. If he keeps doing as he's done, trying to play the "adult" in the fight and abstain from such tactics, then Perry's gonna run over him like a steamroller.

92 Renaissance_Man  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:37:01pm

re: #54 freetoken

I think the only way Obama loses in 2012 is if we are slipping back into a recession and unemployment goes up between now and then.

If that happens, then any petty demagogue with pretty hair and a slick tongue will be able to make a race of it.

Well, that's not necessarily true. Even if the economy continues to recover slowly, and unemployment stays about where it is now, he can still easily lose. Because it's not about what is actually happening in reality.

Voters will know what is 'common knowledge'. And that's determined entirely by the media, which is led around by the nose by the cult media. All it takes is for it to become 'common knowledge' that the economy is disastrous and America is in terrible shape, regardless of what is happening in reality. 'We're broke.' 'We can't afford health care.' While the cult media continues to dominate the national consciousness by linking negative emotion to Obama and, soon enough, positive emotion to the GOP nominee, this election can be easily won by Republicans.

93 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:37:34pm

re: #77 Gus 802

But Perry's rhetoric about Social Security isn't targeting seniors already on Social Security. He's trying to attract a younger voter with this. Even if there were concerns from seniors many of them are easily beguiled with jingoistic patriotism which Perry is good at. IOW, all Perry has to do is wrap himself around the American flag and all their worries are gone as they harken back to their younger days of the "greatest generation."

So was Paul Ryan and his plan totally bombed despite all of the stroking from the media. Americans didn't like it. Older Americans didn't like it. They didn't buy that it wouldn't affect them. And they aren't that damn selfish. Elderly people want their children and grandchildren to have the same benefits as them if not more. That tends to be how people fell about their kids and grandkids. My grandma wants me to have SS and Medicare too. And any possible attraction to younger voters will be over shadowed by his awful social views. Young people aren't voting for a Bible -thumping theocrat.

94 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:37:43pm

Quinao and beans seems a natural pairing possibly improved with the addition of squash. I was called in to mediate a marijuana dispute since I'm the "crazy plant guy". Young Hipster accused Old Dog Walker of growing male plants that would cause everyone's pot to go to seed. It took an hour or so of googling but I ruled that Old Dog Walker's White Widow won't cause Young Hipster's purple skunk go seed. I hope I'm right and I'll die happy if I never have to listen to the Grateful Dead again.

95 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:38:12pm

re: #86 austin_blue

Hi Blue..We had a big fire down the road..how are you doing down there?
This evening the sky was orange...And the air smelled of 18 sq. miles of Cedar trees burnt to the ground..Big time smoke here a few hours ago

96 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:38:40pm

re: #88 JasonA

Texas has had an edge in jobs and unemployment since 1970, part of a long-term trend that has more to do with demographic trends (people moving to the South), the growth of the tech-based businesses in central Texas, and the price of energy (which when it rises, usually benefits the economy of the state). Perry and the other governors in office while this happened didn't have much to do with it.

97 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:42:00pm

re: #90 BishopX

The other thing to realize is that the last time an incumbent lost it was a 3rd party candidate that killed him. An incumbent hasn't lost in 32 years.

This. Incumbents seem to need 4 things to lose: a bad economy or foreign policy debacle, low personal approval ratings, an intra-party challenge and a strong opponent/third party candidate that steals from his previous constituencies. So far Barack Obama has only one of these things being true.

98 Idle Drifter  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:42:15pm

Crazy that I'm reading this post and watching the Gay Republican episode of American Dad. Weird.

99 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:42:39pm

re: #93 moderatelyradicalliberal

So was Paul Ryan and his plan totally bombed despite all of the stroking from the media. Americans didn't like it. Older Americans didn't like it. They didn't buy that it wouldn't affect them. And they aren't that damn selfish. Elderly people want their children and grandchildren to have the same benefits as them if not more. That tends to be how people fell about their kids and grandkids. My grandma wants me to have SS and Medicare too. And any possible attraction to younger voters will be over shadowed by his awful social views. Young people aren't voting for a Bible -thumping theocrat.

Perry can easily turn around and say that Obama put Social Security and Medicare on the table during the debt ceiling negotiations. Or as is typical during these campaigns Perry will use this rhetoric during the primary season in order to rally the base and garner votes; then turn around an offer a more moderate opinion when he goes head to head with Obama.

Young people are not voting for a Bible thumping theocrat. But I would add that young people are still not voting for anyone and in large numbers. The youth gap in voting is a large one even with Democrats.

100 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:45:01pm

re: #87 Gus 802

No. I say that because I've seen the Democrats reject this strategy before. Note the two examples you have given. It was what Reagan did to Mondale. It was what Bush did to Kerry. The Democrats have to be willing then to adopt what has traditionally been a Republican strategy and one built around fear. If they choose to take the "high road" then it won't happen. They have to be willing to do this. I'm sure they will anyway and it won't be directly from the White House but from PACs and non-profit organizations. But they have to play hard and fast and be willing to go for the jugular.

Now on this you have a point. Obama doesn't seem to like going negative, he seems to prefer a slow, but sure self-implosion of his opponents. This has actually worked out quite well for him, but this time he will have to give that implosion an assist. You are correct about that.

101 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:46:02pm

Speaking of Florida, don't forget this. They just elected Rick Scott for governor and Marc Rubio for the Senate.

102 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:46:20pm

From TFN, retweeted just now by by RevReinard:

Gov. Perry was asked to quell the creationism debate at the #SBOE. Perry responded by appointing creationist McLeroy

Who knew evolutionary science had such an ardent defender in former (and infamous) Texas Republican gubernatorial candidate Clayton Williams?:

“If Texas enters into a debate on the teaching of fundamental religious beliefs in public schools, it will tarnish our strong academic reputation, set our ability to attract top science and engineering talent to Texas back decades and severely impact our reputation as a national and global leader in energy, space, medicine and other high tech fields… Governor, this is a very important issue for Texas. I urge you to quell this issue quietly, firmly and permanently.”

103 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:46:44pm

Sanity break:

The amazing combo of RJD2 and Bill Shannon.

Youtube Video
104 elizajane  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:47:06pm

re: #101 Gus 802

Speaking of Florida, don't forget this. They just elected Rick Scott for governor and Marc Rubio for the Senate.

True, but Scott is no longer flavor of the moment in FL. To put it mildly. Last I looked, his favorables were somewhere far south of Obama's.

105 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:47:33pm

re: #95 HoosierHoops

Hi Blue..We had a big fire down the road..how are you doing down there?
This evening the sky was orange...And the air smelled of 18 sq. miles of Cedar trees burnt to the ground..Big time smoke here a few hours ago

Well we've had 22,000 fires (!) since last October, and one tonight at the intersection of US 290 and 183 on the east side of town. I'd like to say it's bone dry, but bones actually contain much more moisture than our soils, right now. Last 70 days, .05" of rain.

We had a goddam compost pile spontaneously combust this week!

106 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:49:57pm

re: #104 elizajane

True, but Scott is no longer flavor of the moment in FL. To put it mildly. Last I looked, his favorables were somewhere far south of Obama's.

Right. Well, we'll see. 2012 is not going to be easy. This is going to be one crazy election year. I expect to see the worst of the worst as far as negative campaigning is concerned. Alongside record amounts of campaign spending. Hang on to your hat.

107 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:51:03pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Right. Well, we'll see. 2012 is not going to be easy. This is going to be one crazy election year. I expect to see the worst of the worst as far as negative campaigning is concerned. Alongside record amounts of campaign spending. Hang on to your hat.

November 6th, 2012, is going to one nerve-wracking night.

108 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:51:44pm

re: #99 Gus 802

Perry can easily turn around and say that Obama put Social Security and Medicare on the table during the debt ceiling negotiations. Or as is typical during these campaigns Perry will use this rhetoric during the primary season in order to rally the base and garner votes; then turn around an offer a more moderate opinion when he goes head to head with Obama.

Young people are not voting for a Bible thumping theocrat. But I would add that young people are still not voting for anyone and in large numbers. The youth gap in voting is a large one even with Democrats.

If you don't go into details this could be a problem, but there are no details. We have no idea what Obama was willing to do and neither does Perry. The Ryan plan has details and Perry's attitude about SS and Medicare are pretty damn clear as well. Technically Obama has already cut costs and made Medicare cheaper. There are ways to cut costs that don't cut benefits. Changes, like negotiating for drugs, don't cut benefits. I just don't see Perry being able to get away with "see the President thinks SS is a ponzi scheme too".

109 Digital Display  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:53:09pm

re: #105 austin_blue

Well we've had 22,000 fires (!) since last October, and one tonight at the intersection of US 290 and 183 on the east side of town. I'd like to say it's bone dry, but bones actually contain much more moisture than our soils, right now. Last 70 days, .05" of rain.

We had a goddam compost pile spontaneously combust this week!

It's stupid hot...Our states are burning up.. Looks like we might get a break next week.. I'm effen over it..My Company sends me down South and it is the hottest summer of all time? I am so over this...
/

110 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:54:59pm

re: #108 moderatelyradicalliberal

If you don't go into details this could be a problem, but there are no details. We have no idea what Obama was willing to do and neither does Perry. The Ryan plan has details and Perry's attitude about SS and Medicare are pretty damn clear as well. Technically Obama has already cut costs and made Medicare cheaper. There are ways to cut costs that don't cut benefits. Changes, like negotiating for drugs, don't cut benefits. I just don't see Perry being able to get away with "see the President thinks SS is a ponzi scheme too".

What Obama has to do is get out there and start making the case for his policies in a manner that doesn't sound like a professor lecturing students. One example would be going out there and saying "If your tax dollars are paying for the drugs, don't you want to get the best deal you can? So why isn't the government negotiating for a better deal? That's got to change and I intend to change it."

111 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:55:32pm

re: #101 Gus 802

Speaking of Florida, don't forget this. They just elected Rick Scott for governor and Marc Rubio for the Senate.

Don't forget that Rubio won in a three-way race with a very, very weak Democratic opponent and Rick Scott's approval rating is now below 30% less than a year into his term. I'd love to see Rick Perry campaigning with Lord Voldermort in Florida. Democrats could run cute ads about them being two peas in a pod.

112 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:55:42pm

re: #5 jamesfirecat

So DF (assuming you're on) I trust if Gov Goodhair wins you're an Obama man come November?

I actually was not on when you asked, James. All I will say on that point right now is: If Perry is the nominee, I am not sure what I will do.

113 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:57:13pm

re: #108 moderatelyradicalliberal

If you don't go into details this could be a problem, but there are no details. We have no idea what Obama was willing to do and neither does Perry. The Ryan plan has details and Perry's attitude about SS and Medicare are pretty damn clear as well. Technically Obama has already cut costs and made Medicare cheaper. There are ways to cut costs that don't cut benefits. Changes, like negotiating for drugs, don't cut benefits. I just don't see Perry being able to get away with "see the President thinks SS is a ponzi scheme too".

No. I don't either. I'm on Obama's side this time around. Have been since day one after he was inaugurated. I believe that the American people should reelect him and give him another 4 years to finish his job. Perry is just a reactionary from my estimation. Perry has a ton of political baggage that the Obama camp can use against him.

It's funny you know because I grew up thinking that criticizing Social Security was tantamount to political suicide. My how times have changed.

114 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:58:07pm

re: #111 moderatelyradicalliberal

Don't forget that Rubio won in a three-way race with a very, very weak Democratic opponent and Rick Scott's approval rating is now below 30% less than a year into his term. I'd love to see Rick Perry campaigning with Lord Voldermort in Florida. Democrats could run cute ads about them being two peas in a pod.

And that's one angle that Obama could pound Perry on, namely being little different than the other Tea Party governors out there right now, whose approval ratings are somewhere south of Hell. If Walker ends up being subject to a recall vote this coming year, even better.

115 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 7:59:30pm

re: #110 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

What Obama has to do is get out there and start making the case for his policies in a manner that doesn't sound like a professor lecturing students. One example would be going out there and saying "If your tax dollars are paying for the drugs, don't you want to get the best deal you can? So why isn't the government negotiating for a better deal? That's got to change and I intend to change it."

Agreed. The truth is Obama didn't really have to run an ideological campaign in 2008. It was him as a person vs McCain/Palin and Bush. He'll have to make an ideological case now. He has to remind Americans that this will be a choice and not just a referendum. They either want to go into the future with Republican/TP ideas and policies or Democratic/progressive policies.

116 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:02:01pm

re: #113 Gus 802

They used to call it the third rail.

117 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:02:10pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

I actually was not on when you asked, James. All I will say on that point right now is: If Perry is the nominee, I am not sure what I will do.

I'm genuinely sorry you would be in that position. I'd feel the same way if somehow Dennis Kucinich was the Democratic nominee.

118 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:02:11pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

I actually was not on when you asked, James. All I will say on that point right now is: If Perry is the nominee, I am not sure what I will do.

What if it were Scott Brown or Chris Christie? I know a lot of people still don't like them for various reasons. Wouldn't it be nice if the Republican Party had them as front runners this time around? Heck even Romney. But Rick Perry? Gadzooks.

119 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:04:34pm

re: #114 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And that's one angle that Obama could pound Perry on, namely being little different than the other Tea Party governors out there right now, whose approval ratings are somewhere south of Hell. If Walker ends up being subject to a recall vote this coming year, even better.

SB5 is on the ballot in November 2012. This is bad news for the GOP and very good news for Obama. I don't know who the GOP nominee will be, but I would not want to campaign with the TP/GOP governors in FL, OH, WI, MI or PA if I were them.

120 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:05:05pm

re: #115 moderatelyradicalliberal

Agreed. The truth is Obama didn't really have to run an ideological campaign in 2008. It was him as a person vs McCain/Palin and Bush. He'll have to make an ideological case now. He has to remind Americans that this will be a choice and not just a referendum. They either want to go into the future with Republican/TP ideas and policies or Democratic/progressive policies.

Yep. And a big part of doing that is shedding the "adult" image that he's cultivated these last couple years. Perry's not going to pull punches, so neither should Obama. He has to get down in people's face, grab them by the chin, and go "I'm not going to say I've done the best job, but I'm ten times better than what you'll get with Perry. Here's why..."

121 prairiefire  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:06:30pm

re: #106 Gus 802

Right. Well, we'll see. 2012 is not going to be easy. This is going to be one crazy election year. I expect to see the worst of the worst as far as negative campaigning is concerned. Alongside record amounts of campaign spending. Hang on to your hat.

I'm going to have to visit my RW mom in law the summer of 2012. With the new weight limits, how will I pack enough books to fend off her need to do battle? I think I will need to buy a Nook.

122 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:07:16pm

re: #2 Jaerik

Organized religion wants power. Organized religion invokes tribalism. Tribalism compels voters into hands of cynical, powerful people. Powerful people then work to deliver more power into the hands of religion.

It's a neat little symbiotic relationship.

You may be surprised to find out how entrenched that power is in "our" bureaucracy and has been for some time.

If you approach a government entity and your scientifically validated program does not fit their fundamentalist criteria or outcome ... don't expect a return phone call.

123 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:07:28pm

re: #111 moderatelyradicalliberal

Don't forget that Rubio won in a three-way race with a very, very weak Democratic opponent and Rick Scott's approval rating is now below 30% less than a year into his term. I'd love to see Rick Perry campaigning with Lord Voldermort in Florida. Democrats could run cute ads about them being two peas in a pod.

Yes, but Rubio knows this and has been working hard and effectively to maintain a political coalition behind him in Florida. And his successful outreach to Caribbean Latinos gives him the potential to broaden the GOP's base of support in Florida. Marco Rubio is a genuinely competent Senator, and his instincts are good. He may be in the Senate for a very long time.

124 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:09:19pm

re: #109 HoosierHoops

It's stupid hot...Our states are burning up.. Looks like we might get a break next week.. I'm effen over it..My Company sends me down South and it is the hottest summer of all time? I am so over this...
/

Now, now. The 75 degree Christmas day will bring Holiday Cheer.

But yeah, you got thrown into an inferno this year. 2009 was really bad, too. Last year (El Nino) was mild, with just a few days over 100 and lots of rain. But this year is, literally, off the charts. July and August were the two hottest months of record keeping in Austin history. Which is consistent with climate models. More extremes of all kinds of heavy weather.

We will end this drought with floods, just like we always do. In 2009, we had almost a year's worth of rain in the last four months.

125 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:10:52pm

re: #120 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yep. And a big part of doing that is shedding the "adult" image that he's cultivated these last couple years. Perry's not going to pull punches, so neither should Obama. He has to get down in people's face, grab them by the chin, and go "I'm not going to say I've done the best job, but I'm ten times better than what you'll get with Perry. Here's why..."

One thing Obama has lacked is a real foil during his presidency. He couldn't really go after TPers or Birthers because in the end they are American citizens and he's their president whether they like it or not. Presidents can't be at war with their citizens. And even the GOP leadership aren't up to scratch like Gingrich was for Clinton. Once there is an actual nominee, Obama will have a direct target to hit over and over again and it will seem like he's taking shots at a peer even if they aren't worthy of holding his jock. I hope he does. There's got to be some anger there over being called a Kenyan, Muslim, socialist usurper who wasn't even born in the US and treated like one too.

126 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:11:06pm

re: #124 austin_blue

20" possible in the gulf states soon.

127 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:11:56pm

Senator Marco Rubio Makes PSYCHO Talk!

Youtube Video
128 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:12:52pm

re: #119 moderatelyradicalliberal

SB5 is on the ballot in November 2012. This is bad news for the GOP and very good news for Obama. I don't know who the GOP nominee will be, but I would not want to campaign with the TP/GOP governors in FL, OH, WI, MI or PA if I were them.

And that's one of the things that gives me hope about next year, that the GOP at the state level is becoming toxic, which Perry will have to find a means to get around. He can't just avoid these states, but he'll have to find a way to put distance between himself and these governors. It's going to be a balancing act that, as you say, he may simply not be prepared for.

129 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:14:48pm

re: #118 Gus 802

What if it were Scott Brown or Chris Christie? I know a lot of people still don't like them for various reasons. Wouldn't it be nice if the Republican Party had them as front runners this time around? Heck even Romney. But Rick Perry? Gadzooks.

I would not want Scott Brown as a Republican presidential nominee. He's still well to the left of me, and even more so compared to the party base at large. He has a valuable role to play, helping to keep the GOP's flag planted in New England and potentially acting as a sheet anchor to prevent too much rightward drift. Still, I see him as a regional, not national candidate.

Chris Christie is someone I'd really like to see run for President someday. He's a fierce budget hawk who sets firm goals and knows how to attain them. He's also not a SoCon. Lastly, Christie, like Rick Perry, is an effective political infighter. He can act as what Richard Nixon called a "nut-cutter", clubbing down wingnut dissidents in order to keep the party sanely oriented.

130 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:15:31pm

re: #126 Bobibutu

20" possible in the gulf states soon.

Sadly for us, happily for Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, it looks to be pointed to the central gulf coast. Good for them. They absolutely need it. It might even put out that inaccessible marsh fire in NO East.

131 im_gumby_damnit  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:17:39pm

The guy scares me. Has the look of a televangelist and about the same religious views.

132 Obdicut  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:18:58pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

Chris Christie is indeed a socon, unless the meaning of the phrase has changed so wildly that thinking it's okay to teach creationism in public schools is not a socon position.

And again: left and right are fictitious measures. They don't have real meaning. When you say Scott Brown is to the left of you, you're not actually saying anything.

133 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:18:58pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Rubio knows this and has been working hard and effectively to maintain a political coalition behind him in Florida. And his successful outreach to Caribbean Latinos gives him the potential to broaden the GOP's base of support in Florida. Marco Rubio is a genuinely competent Senator, and his instincts are good. He may be in the Senate for a very long time.

I wasn't really knocking Rubio, This was left from an earlier argument about Florida's voting pattern in 2010 and what it means for 2012. For what it's worth I think Rubio could possible die at a ripe old age as Florida's Senator. The only problem he will have is if immigration comes up in Congress and he is perceived by Latinos in Florida to be on the wrong side and Debbie Wasserman-Shultz decides to run for the Senate the same year. I would however caution about Rubio's popularity with non-Cuban Latinos extending to the GOP as a whole. Most Latinos that were elected statewide in 2010 still managed to lose the Latino vote by 2:1 at the same time. The Latino vote saved Harry Reid's butt in Nevada as well.

134 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:19:36pm

re: #130 austin_blue

State Climatologist: “It’s Likely Much of Texas Will Still Be in Severe Drought” Next August, With Worse Water Shortages

Human-caused climate change is starting to take us outside the bounds of the recorded weather extremes. And the Texas State Climatologist warned it is likely to get worse:

"I’ve started telling anyone who’s interested that it’s likely that much of Texas will still be in severe drought this time next summer, with water supply implications even worse than those we are now experiencing."

Or, as this sign seen in Austin puts it...

135 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:21:39pm

re: #134 publicityStunted

State Climatologist: “It’s Likely Much of Texas Will Still Be in Severe Drought” Next August, With Worse Water Shortages

Or, as this sign seen in Austin puts it...

I'm a native born Texan and I don't recall it being this hot for this long before. Maybe before I was born, but not since. I guess God ignored Rick Perry when he prayed for rain.

136 Artist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:21:50pm

re: #134 publicityStunted

IT'S A MYTH!! FREE MARKETS WILL SOLVE IT!!11ty

137 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:22:34pm

re: #130 austin_blue

With all the poo pooing over Irene - my associates in Connecticut and NY just got power back today and many are still without - I hope Obama stays out in front on these.

138 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:22:57pm

re: #134 publicityStunted

State Climatologist: “It’s Likely Much of Texas Will Still Be in Severe Drought” Next August, With Worse Water Shortages

Or, as this sign seen in Austin puts it...

Who needs climatologists when we have Rick Perry to pray away the rain? Seriously how unbelievably sad is it that Perry seems to think prayer is a better policy than actually doing something about the drought. Note I am not knocking prayer but Perry seems to think that prayer is policy and that's shit.

139 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:23:22pm

re: #136 SteelPH

No, no, no. According the Rick Perry, prayer will solve everything. But so far praying away the heat has been about as effective as praying away the gay. Maybe he's not praying hard enough?

//

140 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:23:36pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

successful outreach to Caribbean Latinos

Hey, I heard there are blacks in the tea party too!

Desperate, wishful thinking, based on stereotypical views.

141 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:23:51pm

re: #132 Obdicut

Chris Christie is indeed a socon, unless the meaning of the phrase has changed so wildly that thinking it's okay to teach creationism in public schools is not a socon position.

And again: left and right are fictitious measures. They don't have real meaning. When you say Scott Brown is to the left of you, you're not actually saying anything.

Speaking of teaching creationism in public schools, I see that Rabbi Shmuley Boteach must have seen the success of 'Liberal Fascism' in muddying previously understood political definitions, and is starting to publicize his forthcoming book The Church of Evolution.

Does Questioning Evolution Make You Anti-Science?

142 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:24:03pm

re: #138 HappyWarrior

Who needs climatologists when we have Rick Perry to pray away the rain? Seriously how unbelievably sad is it that Perry seems to think prayer is a better policy than actually doing something about the drought. Note I am not knocking prayer but Perry seems to think that prayer is policy and that's shit.

Well, when you think the government can do nothing right that really only leaves you with one authority to petition...

143 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:24:13pm

Evening all!

How is it tonite?

144 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:24:59pm

re: #142 JasonA

Well, when you think the government can do nothing right that really only leaves you with one authority to petition...

True that. How sad is it that this man is both a three term governor and legitimate presidential contender when his state ranks very low in many important categories.

145 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:25:18pm

re: #141 jaunte

Speaking of teaching creationism in public schools, I see that Rabbi Shmuley Boteach must have seen the success of 'Liberal Fascism' in muddying previously understood political definitions, and is starting to publicize his forthcoming book The Church of Evolution.

Does Questioning Evolution Make You Anti-Science?

He hung out with Michael Jackson for a while. Once again reminding me of how utterly strange MJ was.

146 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:25:28pm

re: #139 moderatelyradicalliberal

No, no, no. According the Rick Perry, prayer will solve everything. But so far praying away the heat has been about as effective as praying away the gay. Maybe he's not praying hard enough?

Needs moar animal sacrifices. And if that doesn't work, try virgins.

147 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:26:08pm

Bleh. Marco Rubio is another wingnut theocon. Florida can keep him.

Rubio, a Cuban-American, made a comparison to the strategy employed by the Communist Party in Cuba where schools encouraged children to turn in parents who criticized Fidel Castro.

“Of course, I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro,” he quickly added, while noting that undermining the family and the church were key means the Communist Party used to gain control in Cuba.

“In order to impose their totalitarian regime, they destroyed the family; they destroyed the faith links that existed in that society,” he said.

Although the evolution issue is “obviously” on a “much smaller scale,” both matters are related to the “fundamental question of who is in charge of the upbringing of children. Is it parents or is it the government? I believe it’s parents. And we should do nothing in government that undermines that relationship.

“And there are parents that passionately believe in this and they should be given the opportunity to teach that to their children without someone undoing it,” Rubio said.

Seriously?

148 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:26:29pm

re: #142 JasonA

Well, when you think the government can do nothing right that really only leaves you with one authority to petition...

How about we do the Bucky Fuller solution - put them all in orbit in a space capsule with no comm link to earth - full benefits.

149 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:26:51pm

re: #146 publicityStunted

Don't believe their press. I'll bet they're just as scarce down there as they are in the rest of this sinful country...

150 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:27:09pm

re: #128 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And that's one of the things that gives me hope about next year, that the GOP at the state level is becoming toxic, which Perry will have to find a means to get around. He can't just avoid these states, but he'll have to find a way to put distance between himself and these governors. It's going to be a balancing act that, as you say, he may simply not be prepared for.

I have a feeling the Rick Perry that presents himself on the National Stage at the Debates with Obama will be a totally different man than we know.

I think he has the ability to morph. People now don't seem to understand what a "Chrisitan" candidate he is.

151 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:27:40pm

re: #128 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And that's one of the things that gives me hope about next year, that the GOP at the state level is becoming toxic, which Perry will have to find a means to get around. He can't just avoid these states, but he'll have to find a way to put distance between himself and these governors. It's going to be a balancing act that, as you say, he may simply not be prepared for.

He can't get around it. He's Ground Zero. Texas will enter the 2013 Legislative Session, which will set the budget for the 2014/2015 fiscal years ("We do it every other year, when villages all over Texas send their idiots to Austin."- Molly Ivins) with a budget shortfall of around $8-11 billion to make up for the 2013 budget before they even begin to address the $25 billion shortfall for the 2014/2015 cycle.

He was very successful in engineering the 2012/2013 cycle to hide the structural problems in the Texas finance system. Hence his run for the WH as a Governor who has "balanced a budget without tax increases" and with a "$6 billion rainy day fund". It's all smoke and mirrors. We are in terrible shape for the next Session.

152 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:27:44pm

re: #138 HappyWarrior

Who needs climatologists when we have Rick Perry to pray away the rain? Seriously how unbelievably sad is it that Perry seems to think prayer is a better policy than actually doing something about the drought. Note I am not knocking prayer but Perry seems to think that prayer is policy and that's shit.

I think that's generally how theocrats operate. Rugged individualism and believing the Lord will provide really don't match. Kinda like worshiping Jesus and Ayn Rand.

153 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:27:57pm

re: #150 ggt

I have a feeling the Rick Perry that presents himself on the National Stage at the Debates with Obama will be a totally different man than we know.

I think he has the ability to morph. People now don't seem to understand what a "Chrisitan" candidate he is.

I'm kinda looking forward to seeing him on the stage with the other Republicans next week.

154 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:28:35pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Bleh. Marco Rubio is another wingnut theocon. Florida can keep him.

Seriously?

Typical Republican elected official who is willfully ignorant of science.Rubio's an idiot if he really thinks that teaching evolution is anywhere near what goes on in totalitarian dictatorships.

155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:28:56pm

re: #141 jaunte

Speaking of teaching creationism in public schools, I see that Rabbi Shmuley Boteach must have seen the success of 'Liberal Fascism' in muddying previously understood political definitions, and is starting to publicize his forthcoming book The Church of Evolution.

Does Questioning Evolution Make You Anti-Science?

Rabbi Shmuley is kind of an interesting dude. I agree with about 2% of what he says, but his gig at HP kind of signaled to me what HP actually was, which is not "progressive" (whatever the hell "progressive" is), at all.

156 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:29:19pm

re: #146 publicityStunted

Perhaps Perry could pass a law for invasive hymen checks. I mean we couldn't just that the alleged virgins word for it.

157 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:29:47pm

re: #152 moderatelyradicalliberal

I think that's generally how theocrats operate. Rugged individualism and believing the Lord will provide really don't match. Kinda like worshiping Jesus and Ayn Rand.

You've just summed up the modern GOP in five words.

158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:29:55pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Bleh. Marco Rubio is another wingnut theocon. Florida can keep him.

"“Of course, I’m not equating the evolution people with Fidel Castro,” he quickly added, "

Republicans lie about everything.

Can't be trusted.

159 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:30:04pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Bleh. Marco Rubio is another wingnut theocon. Florida can keep him.

Seriously?

Parents, in this country, who feel that gubernet is trying to counteract what they are teaching their children really need to reexamine what they are teaching.

Secondly, they need to have more confidence in their children. Instead of trying to brainwash them (as they feel the gubernet is doing), they could let them learn and make-up their own minds.

160 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:30:55pm

re: #158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Republicans lie about everything.

Can't be trusted.

And democrats are truthful? Can be trusted?

161 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:30:57pm

To leech on to evolution, I don't understand what about that offends people like Rubio and others so much. There are plenty of theists who think the theory is legitimate and not a threat to their faith. What about the idea that organisms adapt to their surroundings offends them so much? Either they don't understand the science or they choose to spread lies about evolution and evolution believers for votes. Either way it's pathetic and why rabid social conservatives in many ways have a lot of ideological growing up to do.

162 freetoken  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:30:57pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Bleh. Marco Rubio is another wingnut theocon. Florida can keep him.

Seriously?

Yes, he's probably serious about it, given his own fundamentalist beliefs.

It's an easy argument to refute. To whit, his whole premise is that if parents believe something then it is ok to teach it to their children. All one has to do is pick any of the millions of strange and dangerous beliefs and practices in which parents engage, and then ask Rubio if that makes it ok to teach it to children.

Fundamentalist's political "arguments", when they try to disguise their theocratic underpinnings, tend to run towards the "postmodern" (if I may be allowed to use that label) view that a belief is valid in itself and thus "true".

It's wacky, it's especially wacky when religious fundamentalists dress up their arguments in folly.

163 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:31:04pm

re: #155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't accept his claim that David Berlinski 'tore large holes' in the theory of evolution during a debate with Richard Dawkins.

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:31:14pm

re: #156 moderatelyradicalliberal

Perhaps Perry could pass a law for invasive hymen checks. I mean we couldn't just that the alleged virgins word for it.

There are born-again virgins.

ROTFLAMO

165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:31:27pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

I would not want Scott Brown as a Republican presidential nominee. He's still well to the left of me, and even more so compared to the party base at large. He has a valuable role to play, helping to keep the GOP's flag planted in New England and potentially acting as a sheet anchor to prevent too much rightward drift. Still, I see him as a regional, not national candidate.

Chris Christie is someone I'd really like to see run for President someday. He's a fierce budget hawk who sets firm goals and knows how to attain them. He's also not a SoCon. Lastly, Christie, like Rick Perry, is an effective political infighter. He can act as what Richard Nixon called a "nut-cutter", clubbing down wingnut dissidents in order to keep the party sanely oriented.

100% delusional post.

166 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:31:34pm

re: #158 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Republicans lie about everything.

Can't be trusted.

All politicians lie.

167 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:31:57pm

re: #160 Bobibutu

And democrats are truthful? Can be trusted?

Comparatively speaking, yes.

They can, Mr. MBF.

168 docproto48  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:32:29pm

I just checked my passport, Queensland sounds good

169 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:33:26pm

re: #134 publicityStunted

State Climatologist: “It’s Likely Much of Texas Will Still Be in Severe Drought” Next August, With Worse Water Shortages

Or, as this sign seen in Austin puts it...

The upper Colorado River basin serves moderately sized cities like Midland, Big Spring, San Angelo, and Odessa. Right now, that basin is at 9% of reservoir capacity. If La Nina comes back strong this fall/winter (>60% chance) those west Texas towns will be facing the unthinkable- trucking in water just for potable use.

Deodorant sales will skyrocket...

170 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:33:30pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

To leech on to evolution, I don't understand what about that offends people like Rubio and others so much. There are plenty of theists who think the theory is legitimate and not a threat to their faith. What about the idea that organisms adapt to their surroundings offends them so much? Either they don't understand the science or they choose to spread lies about evolution and evolution believers for votes. Either way it's pathetic and why rabid social conservatives in many ways have a lot of ideological growing up to do.

Because they think that somehow in teaching Evolution there are coded subliminal mini mind-rays that remove the ability to be brainwashed by extreme religious views. The Pat Robertson's of the world are worried about their bank accounts.

171 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:33:40pm

re: #166 ggt

All politicians lie.

It's a question of degree. Only Republicans are lying about things that can literally destroy civilization (i.e. AGW)

172 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:33:47pm

For many ways it all goes back to evolution for me. When I first became truly politically interested as an 8th grade student back in 2000 during hte presidential election that year, I had seen the play version of Inherit the Wind. The character of Henry Drummond who was a representation of the lawyer, Clarence Darrow appealed to me more than that of Matthew Brady, WIlliam Jennings Bryan. The thought that they would punish John Scopes for teaching a scientific theory was and still is astonishing to me.

173 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:34:11pm

re: #166 ggt

All politicians lie.

Broad brush!!!!

Not faaaairrrr!!!!

174 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:34:35pm

re: #141 jaunte

Speaking of teaching creationism in public schools, I see that Rabbi Shmuley Boteach must have seen the success of 'Liberal Fascism' in muddying previously understood political definitions, and is starting to publicize his forthcoming book The Church of Evolution.

Does Questioning Evolution Make You Anti-Science?

Yes. Yes it does.

175 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:34:43pm

re: #170 ggt

Because they think that somehow in teaching Evolution there are coded subliminal min-rays that remove the ability to be brainwashed by extreme religious views. The Pat Robertson's of the world are worried about their bank accounts.

True, it just has always amazed me I guess for all their warts the Catholic Church's higher ups accept evolution while other Christians see it not just as wrong but even demonic. Not all other Christians of course.

176 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:35:41pm

re: #175 HappyWarrior

True, it just has always amazed me I guess for all their warts the Catholic Church's higher ups accept evolution while other Christians see it not just as wrong but even demonic.

Those who are secure in their faith don't feel it threatened by Science.

177 freetoken  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:36:26pm

re: #174 austin_blue

Yes. Yes it does.

Yeah, it was an easy question. The Rabbi confuses, intentionally, what a scientist does when questioning an existing theory and what politicians and the current GOP candidates do when they "question" Evolution.

Unfortunately English words are often quite overloaded with meanings, and to question is a verb with several uses.

178 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:36:41pm

re: #150 ggt

I have a feeling the Rick Perry that presents himself on the National Stage at the Debates with Obama will be a totally different man than we know.

I think he has the ability to morph. People now don't seem to understand what a "Chrisitan" candidate he is.

Dude. He hasn't morphed in over 10 years. Perry doesn't know how to be anything other than a far right, socon, swaggering Texas Republican. He's not doing some weird bizarro impression of GWB. That is him. I met him at an event he held during his releection bid at a coffee shop in the building I worked in. I watched him politic for 2 hours out of curiosity. He does not morph. What you are seeing is what you will see. He is exactly what you think he is and he will never be anything else convincingly. He's either a true believer or he's been in character for so long he can't play another role. He's Palin with a penis.

179 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:36:45pm

Even the Catholics have their share of crazies.

A few Catholics still insist Galileo was wrong.

180 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:36:53pm

re: #171 publicityStunted

It's a question of degree. Only Republicans are lying about things that can literally destroy civilization (i.e. AGW)

Hey!

The Lord is coming back soon, anyway!!! You tree-loving dirty hippies are just plotting to get the gumment to take MY MUNNY!!!

181 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:36:53pm

re: #176 ggt

Those who are secure in their faith don't feel it threatened by Science.

That is true.

182 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:37:24pm

re: #177 freetoken

He's obviously smart enough to understand the distinction, and that makes him dishonest.

183 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:38:30pm

re: #178 moderatelyradicalliberal

Dude. He hasn't morphed in over 10 years. Perry doesn't know how to be anything other than a far right, socon, swaggering Texas Republican. He's not doing some weird bizarro impression of GWB. That is him. I met him at an event he held during his releection bid at a coffee shop in the building I worked in. I watched him politic for 2 hours out of curiosity. He does not morph. What you are seeing is what you will see. He is exactly what you think he is and he will never be anything else convincingly. He's either a true believer or he's been in character for so long he can't play another role. He's Palin with a penis.

Then he will not win in 2012.

184 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:39:43pm

re: #174 austin_blue

Yes. Yes it does.

Republicans don't even care their entire party is the anti-science party.

Interesting, since freaks like the Kochs, oil interests, etc. depend on actual science to money-grub. Doesn't take much to rile up the conservative hayseeds with god-talk, though.

185 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:40:13pm

re: #183 ggt

Then he will not win in 2012.

I keep telling you guys, I'm not scared of Perry. Not.At.All.

186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:40:29pm

re: #183 ggt

Then he will not win in 2012.

They still don't have anyone who can beat Obama, including Perry. Everyone is too alienating to moderates.

187 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:40:32pm

re: #172 HappyWarrior

For many ways it all goes back to evolution for me. When I first became truly politically interested as an 8th grade student back in 2000 during hte presidential election that year, I had seen the play version of Inherit the Wind. The character of Henry Drummond who was a representation of the lawyer, Clarence Darrow appealed to me more than that of Matthew Brady, WIlliam Jennings Bryan. The thought that they would punish John Scopes for teaching a scientific theory was and still is astonishing to me.

Spencer Tracy had that effect on Katharine Hepburn too!

188 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:42:24pm

re: #185 moderatelyradicalliberal

I keep telling you guys, I'm not scared of Perry. Not.At.All.

We've seen worse than Perry. WAY worse. Same for this crop of teabagging bigots, running around with Obama-is-a-monkey pickets.

WAY worse than them.

189 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:42:32pm

re: #185 moderatelyradicalliberal

I keep telling you guys, I'm not scared of Perry. Not.At.All.

But I'm scared of the attention span and critical thinking skills of all too many American voters :(

190 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:42:37pm

re: #183 ggt

Then he will not win in 2012.

I happen to think it's 50/50 as I went through above. I would also add that this country is also 50 percent Bible thumper. Half of Americans are creationists.

191 im_gumby_damnit  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:43:46pm

re: #186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They still don't have anyone who can beat Obama, including Perry. Everyone is too alienating to moderates.

This has to be the worst crop of Republican candidates I've seen in my lifetime.

192 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:44:55pm

There is almost nothing better than nose kisses!

193 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:45:24pm

re: #64 moderatelyradicalliberal

I would add something to that. President's don't often get reelected when the economy sucks and they are personally disliked and they have an intra-party challenge and a strong opponent. So far all of these things are not true for Obama. If you look at history, you find most if not all of those things happened to presidents that lost reelection. Obama has a fight coming, but so does the GOP.

Good point...Obama will be in a stronger position if he doesn't have to deal with a Ted Kennedy like Carter did. Or a Pat Buchanan like Bush Sr. did. And he still has over a year to get the Dem base back on his side.

194 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:46:04pm

re: #190 Gus 802

I happen to think it's 50/50 as I went through above. I would also add that this country is also 50 percent Bible thumper. Half of Americans are creationists.

I'm not so sure about that, personally. I don't trust polls.

195 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:46:46pm

According to this poll 48 percent of Americans believe in ghosts. Compared to 45 percent who don't.

196 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:47:26pm

I think Obama will need to focus on debunking all the GOP rhetoric about the economy. It is the only leg they are standing on at this point.

It's the Economy.

197 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:47:31pm

re: #190 Gus 802

I happen to think it's 50/50 as I went through above. I would also add that this country is also 50 percent Bible thumper. Half of Americans are creationists.

I don't think it's quite 50%. 40-45, maybe, and even then there are elements of them, like the rwnj Paulinoids and Constitution Party/Alex Jones types who hate the Rs and won't vote for them. Especially with a female politician on the ticket. Yet others, like the Jehovah's Witness and Church of God types are apolitical on principle.

I don't think the Rs can win an election against a socialist / with these candidates. Kidding aside, they are going to have to move way to the center to unseat the incumbent.

198 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:47:40pm

re: #194 ggt

I'm not so sure about that, personally. I don't trust polls.

Well. If we can't trust polls then we can't trust the topic of this thread now can we?

199 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:48:18pm

re: #195 Gus 802

According to this poll 48 percent of Americans believe in ghosts.

..and I look like I've seen one when I contemplate poll results like this.

200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:48:30pm

re: #191 im_gumby_damnit

This has to be the worst crop of Republican candidates I've seen in my lifetime.

Lol you should have seen the first one I voted for.

201 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:48:32pm

re: #198 Gus 802

Well. If we can't trust polls then we can't trust the topic of this thread now can we?

He is taking off in the polls with the GOP base.

That is a whole lot different than taking off in the polls with the entire electorate.

202 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:48:52pm

re: #195 Gus 802

...there's a ghost, under my bed
and there's a little green spook in my head...

203 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:49:01pm

re: #197 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think it's quite 50%. 40-45, maybe, and even then there are elements of them, like the rwnj Paulinoids and Constitution Party/Alex Jones types who hate the Rs and won't vote for them. Especially with a female politician on the ticket. Yet others, like the Jehovah's Witness and Church of God types are apolitical on principle.

I don't think the Rs can win an election against a socialist / with these candidates. Kidding aside, they are going to have to move way to the center to unseat the incumbent.

That's why I think Perry will say all this shit now to win the Republican nomination. Then he will go towards the center in the general election. Being the slippery lizard that he is.

204 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:49:01pm

re: #199 publicityStunted

..and I look like I've seen one when I contemplate poll results like this.

Kind of like your pic?

205 im_gumby_damnit  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:49:40pm

re: #200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol you should have seen the first one I voted for.

No way.

206 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:50:30pm

re: #203 Gus 802

That's why I think Perry will say all this shit now to win the Republican nomination. Then he will go towards the center in the general election. Being the slippery lizard that he is.

The day after Perry wins the nomination Obama should take out an hour of prime time on all the stations, sit down in a nice comfy chair, and just read excerpts from Perry's book. Especially the part that mentions Social Security.

207 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:50:52pm

re: #171 publicityStunted

It's a question of degree. Only Republicans are lying about things that can literally destroy civilization (i.e. AGW)

There are those who will argue that a wrecked economy will destroy civilization. We are globally connected now in a way we never were before.

It's all relative to what voters are inclined to think is important, on election day.

208 Interesting Times  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:51:31pm

re: #204 JasonA

Kind of like your pic?

Heh. That's actually a homage to Jon Stewart's segments about the media's attention span :)

209 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:52:03pm

re: #137 Bobibutu

With all the poo pooing over Irene - my associates in Connecticut and NY just got power back today and many are still without - I hope Obama stays out in front on these.

The flack over Irene was odd, wasn't it? The problem with hurricanes is that it often doesn't matter how big they are when they hit, but how big they were *before* they hit. Like I posted the other night before Irene came onshore, unless it's a Cat 4 or 5, it's always the water, not the wind. Irene had a huge amount of water entrained in it's core and bands. Katrina hit New Orleans as a Cat 3, but carried a Cat 5 storm surge. Ike hit Galveston as a Cat 2 but put a Cat 4 20' storm surge over the High Island peninsula.

I think the negative coverage of the effects of the storm, which were not really accurate (it was as nasty as a honey badger), were part of a greater effort to discount scientists by certain media (Faux News and the other usual suspects).

210 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:52:14pm

Just had a thought. ;)
What, exactly, would a R president do to 'fix' the economy?

211 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:52:29pm

re: #203 Gus 802

That's why I think Perry will say all this shit now to win the Republican nomination. Then he will go towards the center in the general election. Being the slippery lizard that he is.

I tried to say that in my #178.

You said it so much better.

He reminds me of Tommy Lee Jones in MIB. I keep expecting him to unzip his human suit and reveal the alien underneath.

212 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:52:34pm

re: #206 JasonA

Up next: "He Didn't Mean It" week, on Fox.

213 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:52:41pm

re: #193 palomino

Good point...Obama will be in a stronger position if he doesn't have to deal with a Ted Kennedy like Carter did. Or a Pat Buchanan like Bush Sr. did. And he still has over a year to get the Dem base back on his side.

I don't agree, in the sense that the people making a lot of noise about being The Dem Base, aren't. Many are just followers of Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald, who isn't even a leftist, and are somehow deluded Cynthia McKlanny or Elizabeth Warren is going to primary Obama.

Not the sharpest tools in the shed.

214 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:53:02pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

Just had a thought. ;)
What, exactly, would a R president do to 'fix' the economy?

lower taxes on corporations, the rich and cut all entitlement spending.

215 Hal_10000  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:53:24pm

I think it tells you all you need to know abou the GOP field that the latest flavor of the month keeps rocketing up he polls. Trump, then Bachmann, now Perry. It'll be Zombie Coolidge next.

216 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:53:43pm

re: #214 ggt

lower taxes on corporations, the rich and cut all entitlement spending.

Isn't that what we did under Bush?
Gee, seems like it doesn't work.
;)

217 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:53:55pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

Deregulate corporate citizens,
re-regulate regular citizens.

218 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:54:45pm

re: #216 Varek Raith

Isn't that what we did under Bush?
Gee, seems like it doesn't work.
;)

Like socialism, it wasn't ever implemeted properly.

/

219 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:55:35pm

re: #214 ggt

lower taxes on corporations, the rich and cut all entitlement spending.

And you know what will happen? Then the corporations will just make even larger profits. I'm talking Fortune 500 here of course and not small corporation. The Republicans won't be able to do jack with their proposal. Tax cuts aren't creating jobs now and never will. There's a far larger systemic problem at play here. We're also dealing with a global economic crisis completely out of our reach and one we in fact share such as deficit spending.

220 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:55:41pm

re: #215 Hal_10000

I think it tells you all you need to know abou the GOP field that the latest flavor of the month keeps rocketing up he polls. Trump, then Bachmann, now Perry. It'll be Zombie Coolidge next.

Zombie Coolidge before Zombie Reagan. Did word leak out that Reagan actually had shared goals with Mikhail Gorbachev?

221 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:56:40pm

re: #86 austin_blue

The thing is, Obama is no Jimmy Carter or GHWB, and no one on the R side is Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton. Pointy Boots has the shit to take the R nom, but in the general, he will scare the fuck out of the I's.

The thing is, the rest of the Rs are going to try to portray him as Too Conservative, which is hilarious because, except for Huntsman (to a small degree), they have all been galloping to the far right.

He's got 'em by the short rabbits (an actual subtitle I saw in a Hong Kong hop'n'chop movie).

Seems to me that the nod is now Perry's to lose. The conservative base is excited by him in a way they never could be for Romney or even the lady with bug eyes. So, unless he screws up big time, he'll be their candidate.

Normally such a candidacy would be a joke. But these aren't normal times even by the standards of the last decade. The economy blows so badly I fully expect a lot of voters will just mindlessly vote "not Obama." And Perry will probably put someone like Rubio on his ticket to help win a swing state and at least mitigate the GOP's hemorraghing among Hispanic voters.

Much of it will depend on whether Perry has the rhetorical skill to distance himself somewhat from the extreme views of his book. No doubt Perry's an extremist, much farther to the right than Obama is left. (Among other Perry gems: no direct election of senators, elimination of SS/Medicare due to unconstitutionality, raising taxes on the bottom 50% to preserve tax cuts on the top 2%--a total absurdity since the bottom 50% controls a whopping 2% of the nation's wealth, how the hell are they supposed to pay?) If Obama can paint Perry as the extremist he is, then he can win. But this economy just leads to a malaise among independents a little more each day, so I'm getting a bit pessimistic.

222 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:56:45pm

re: #203 Gus 802

That's why I think Perry will say all this shit now to win the Republican nomination. Then he will go towards the center in the general election. Being the slippery lizard that he is.

Yeah, I could see that, too...another one who simply cannot be trusted.

The wildcard is still Palin...who the h. knows what she's going to do, but if she does try to run, oh boy the GOP/RNC is going to be hating life....not because she's a real threat but because she's just a big pain in the bohunku$ and more trouble to them than $he'$ worth.

It's Labor Day weekend...who knows who else might try and throw their hat in the ring. For the R's sake they better hope someone halfway normal does, b/c cat's out of the bag on Slick Rick.

223 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:57:16pm

American released from GKQ man's prison. After 5 months, he's not looking too good.

224 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:57:30pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

Just had a thought. ;)
What, exactly, would a R president do to 'fix' the economy?

Whatever they do won't work. They'll never get rid of the EPA or other regulations. Won't happen. And even if they did that it ironically wouldn't even fix the economy.

225 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:57:43pm

re: #219 Gus 802

And you know what will happen? Then the corporations will just make even larger profits. I'm talking Fortune 500 here of course and not small corporation. The Republicans won't be able to do jack with their proposal. Tax cuts aren't creating jobs now and never will. There's a far larger systemic problem at play here. We're also dealing with a global economic crisis completely out of our reach and one we in fact share such as deficit spending.

No, I was just answering the question.

What would Republican's do to fix the economy.

226 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:58:00pm

re: #179 ggt

Even the Catholics have their share of crazies.

A few Catholics still insist Galileo was wrong.

Opus Dei. Feh.

227 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:58:14pm

re: #220 HappyWarrior

Zombie Coolidge before Zombie Reagan. Did word leak out that Reagan actually had shared goals with Mikhail Gorbachev?

Some people may have found out that he equalized the capital gains and income tax rates with the Tax Reform Act of 1986...

228 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:58:53pm

re: #140 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Hey, I heard there are blacks in the tea party too!

Desperate, wishful thinking, based on stereotypical views.

While MRL is quite right about Rubio's outreach not necessarily translating to the rest of the party, that outreach is still real. Dismiss it at your own folly.

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 8:59:59pm

I keep hearing how Obama is defying the constition to implement Marxism in this country by issuing an untold number of Executive Orders.

WTF?

Don't Executive Orders expire?

230 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:01:12pm

re: #165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

GAZE

231 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:01:32pm

re: #229 ggt

I keep hearing how Obama is defying the constition to implement Marxism in this country by issuing an untold number of Executive Orders.

WTF?

Don't Executive Orders expire?

In Soviet America Executive Orders expire you!

232 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:01:45pm

re: #189 publicityStunted

But I'm scared of the attention span and critical thinking skills of all too many American voters :(

50% of them don't believe in evolution. 60% of them don't believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change.

What's to worry?

233 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:01:50pm

How did Rubio do among non Cuban Hispanics last year out of sheer curiousity? Everytime I hear about a GOP candidate doing well with Hispanics, it's either that he or she did well the Cubans or growing Evangelical community within the Latino community which Bush did particularly well with in 2004 though his numbers with Latino Catholics were not too much different from the historical record. Not knocking Rubio per say here but I wonder how much clout he actually has with Latinos since Latinos are a diverse voting much with varied concerns.

234 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:02:03pm

re: #209 austin_blue

Yeah ... if a guy was outside your house yelling threats at you - would you call 911 or wait till he broke in and caused mayhem?

235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:02:09pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

While MRL is quite right about Rubio's outreach not necessarily translating to the rest of the party, that outreach is still real. Dismiss it at your own folly.

Having actually been a nonwhite con, I'm far more familiar with the reality of Republican tokenist outreach than anyone here. That's why I say your thinking is wishful.

236 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:03:07pm

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

GAZE

Feeling's not mutual.

237 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:03:45pm

re: #213 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't agree, in the sense that the people making a lot of noise about being The Dem Base, aren't. Many are just followers of Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald, who isn't even a leftist, and are somehow deluded Cynthia McKlanny or Elizabeth Warren is going to primary Obama.

Not the sharpest tools in the shed.

It may be cynical, but Obama's strategy is basically "what other choice do they have?" when it comes to the liberal base. By the time they've heard a year of insane Perryisms, the base should be sufficiently motivated to keep him out of office. (At least this is Obama's thinking now.) Unless Obama caves far more than he already has, I don't see anyone who can mount a credible primary challenge. Warren wants the MA Senate seat, McKinney would be laughed off the stage immediately. By comparison, TK and even Pat Buchanan were heavyweights.

238 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:05:45pm

re: #235 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Having actually been a nonwhite con, I'm far more familiar with the reality of Republican tokenist outreach than anyone here. That's why I say your thinking is wishful.

Really! Wow - please enlighten us.

239 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:05:52pm

Great Stuff in the Pages

If you didn't see it, Krager posted what the Dominionists would do.

240 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:07:25pm

I think that Perry's ties with the Uganda wanna-make-homosexuality-a-capital-offense Christians might be his Swift-Boat moment.

241 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:07:25pm

re: #233 HappyWarrior

How did Rubio do among non Cuban Hispanics last year out of sheer curiousity? Everytime I hear about a GOP candidate doing well with Hispanics, it's either that he or she did well the Cubans or growing Evangelical community within the Latino community which Bush did particularly well with in 2004 though his numbers with Latino Catholics were not too much different from the historical record. Not knocking Rubio per say here but I wonder how much clout he actually has with Latinos since Latinos are a diverse voting much with varied concerns.

It's just tokenistic thinking. Prop up somebody with a certain last name, add a Horatio Alger spin to their life narrative, and think we're stupid enough as they are, to flock to it.

This is how stupid they think we are.

And Rubio needs to watch his back with the Republicans anyway, since he spoke out against the AZ immigrant scapegoating law. All of those nonwhite cons skate on thin ice.

242 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:07:44pm

re: #233 HappyWarrior

Some analysis on that here:

Cuban-Americans, the most powerful Hispanic constituency in Florida, have been voting reliably Republican since the 1960s. Even though they’re now outnumbered by more-moderate non-Cubans, they still turn out disproportionately on Election Day. Moreover, they, along with Puerto Ricans, the second-largest Hispanic group in the state, don’t face the same immigration woes as, say, Mexicans in California. Cubans can qualify for residency a year after arriving in the United States, and Puerto Ricans are born American citizens. “We don’t have even a fraction of the challenges on the immigration front as folks in the border states,” says Tony Calatayud, the Cuban-American chairman of Conservadores, a new Miami-based organization that supports conservative candidates, including Rubio. “That’s why Marco stands his ground [on immigration matters] and is really not affected by the backlash of Hispanic groups.”
[Link: hispanic.cc...]

243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:07:56pm

re: #238 Bobibutu

Really! Wow - please enlighten us.

Just keep reading my posts.

244 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:08:54pm

re: #243 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Just keep reading my posts.

With baited breath.

245 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:09:21pm

re: #234 Bobibutu

Yeah ... if a guy was outside your house yelling threats at you - would you call 911 or wait till he broke in and caused mayhem?

Yet as soon as a major weather calamity hits a third-world country they are on and on about how great our early detection systems are and that it could never happen here.

246 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:09:38pm

re: #225 ggt

No, I was just answering the question.

What would Republican's do to fix the economy.

I was answering it too.re: #232 austin_blue

50% of them don't believe in evolution. 60% of them don't believe in Anthropogenic Climate Change.

What's to worry?

I'm pretty sure that more than 60 percent still can't point to either Iraq or Afghanistan on a map.

247 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:11:18pm

re: #246 Gus 802

I was answering it too.re: #232 austin_blue

I'm pretty sure that more than 60 percent still can't point to either Iraq or Afghanistan on a map.

Image: 80033_americasview.jpg

248 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:12:14pm

re: #242 jaunte

Some analysis on that here:

True. Rubio also did well among Dominicans (who are a greater portion of Latinos in Florida than elsewhere). Among Mexicans, he did make that much of an improvement. But Mexicans are a much smaller part of the Latino population in Florida than in Arizona or Texas. So Rubio is well positioned to keep and maintain the coalition he needs to maintain.

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:12:18pm

re: #246 Gus 802

I was answering it too.re: #232 austin_blue

I'm pretty sure that more than 60 percent still can't point to either Iraq or Afghanistan on a map.

That I would believe.

Since the only thing on TV now a days is reality ghost hunting shows, you may be right.

There was a time when people were really interested in the somewhat intelligent shows on Discover and such. Back when Cable Channels were a novelty.

Now those shows have given way to crap. Since, most voters don't read Smithsonian or actually listen to NPR . . . .they can't their attention spans won't allow for it.

250 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:12:25pm

When you go out shopping tomorrow go ahead and try this on a few people. Ask them what they think about Rick Perry. Then listen to the responses. "I was never a big fan of his music." Or something. Mostly a lot of vacant looks.

251 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:12:33pm

re: #242 jaunte

Some analysis on that here:

Thanks, interesting find. The statistic I found most interesting was that only 16% of Hispanics are foreign born. That surprised me given that it's a border state. Now I am not too shocked given that there are many families in New Mexico that have been there since New Mexico was part of Mexico and before that Spain. The El Salvdorian American vote is a factor that I think will be discussed in the DC suburbs in the years to come much like the Cuban in Florida or hte Mexican in California/Texas.

252 docproto48  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:12:49pm

Unfortunately fundamentalist christianity controls people by guilt and fear. The flock becomes afraid to rock the boat because they are being told they will burn in hell forever if they do. This crop of wingnuts are being able to turn that same fear into closed minded political control.
Since I don't know yet how to add links to notes I recommend the following by Jefferson: Both extolling the virtues of openmindedness:

1 Letter to Peter Carr
2 The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom

The latter opens: "Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burdens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness,"

253 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:13:16pm

re: #237 palomino

It may be cynical, but Obama's strategy is basically "what other choice do they have?" when it comes to the liberal base. By the time they've heard a year of insane Perryisms, the base should be sufficiently motivated to keep him out of office. (At least this is Obama's thinking now.) Unless Obama caves far more than he already has, I don't see anyone who can mount a credible primary challenge. Warren wants the MA Senate seat, McKinney would be laughed off the stage immediately. By comparison, TK and even Pat Buchanan were heavyweights.

Oh I know. It's just stupid. Another form of wishful thinking, but by people who think winning is a four letter word.

254 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:14:53pm

re: #245 ggt

Yet as soon as a major weather calamity hits a third-world country they are on and on about how great our early detection systems are and that it could never happen here.

Yet our military had contingency plans in place for Irene long before any directive from above. - I am hard core military - not political use and misuse of - just military in its appropriate context.

255 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:15:09pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

True. Rubio also did well among Dominicans (who are a greater portion of Latinos in Florida than elsewhere). Among Mexicans, he did make that much of an improvement. But Mexicans are a much smaller part of the Latino population in Florida than in Arizona or Texas. So Rubio is well positioned to keep and maintain the coalition he needs to maintain.

Lol in Florida.

And only in a world where people are willing tokens. That's not the real world, it's a rarified conservative one.

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:17:04pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

Don't kid yourselves guys, there's a real chance this guy could be the next President.

I hate to say it but its true.

Oh, I don't doubt it. Bachmann, Palin, all that jazz, no chance. This guy, if he can get the nomination, will be a contendah.

257 docproto48  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:17:21pm

re: #210 Varek Raith

Just had a thought. ;)
What, exactly, would a R president do to 'fix' the economy?

Institute slave labor:
Anyone with less than $1billion would be a slave

258 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:18:40pm

re: #244 Bobibutu

With baited breath.

I recommend you exhale soon. It's not forthcoming on demand.

259 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:19:57pm

re: #244 Bobibutu

With baited breath.

Oh, she'll bait you alright. The trick is not falling for it.

260 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:20:04pm

re: #254 Bobibutu

Yet our military had contingency plans in place for Irene long before any directive from above. - I am hard core military - not political use and misuse of - just military in its appropriate context.

And we sent the USS Mercy? to Thailand to help them. We don't need to de-salinate any water for ourselves.

Nice we have the resources for both.

261 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:20:14pm

re: #258 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I recommend you exhale soon. It's not forthcoming on demand.

Obviously. ;-)

262 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:20:48pm

re: #206 JasonA

The day after Perry wins the nomination Obama should take out an hour of prime time on all the stations, sit down in a nice comfy chair, and just read excerpts from Perry's book. Especially the part that mentions Social Security.

Oh that is an awesome idea. I love it!

263 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:20:59pm

Well, look what I just found:

AJELive
Spanish Prime Minister says international community should intervene in #Syria like it did in #Libya [Link: aje.me...]

I'm hoping it comes to pass.

To use an analogy, maybe as France was Libya, Spain will be to Syria (I hope).

264 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:21:05pm

re: #261 Bobibutu

Obviously. ;-)

No one has to jump when you snap.

265 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:22:06pm

re: #221 palomino

Seems to me that the nod is now Perry's to lose. The conservative base is excited by him in a way they never could be for Romney or even the lady with bug eyes. So, unless he screws up big time, he'll be their candidate.

Normally such a candidacy would be a joke. But these aren't normal times even by the standards of the last decade. The economy blows so badly I fully expect a lot of voters will just mindlessly vote "not Obama." And Perry will probably put someone like Rubio on his ticket to help win a swing state and at least mitigate the GOP's hemorraghing among Hispanic voters.

Much of it will depend on whether Perry has the rhetorical skill to distance himself somewhat from the extreme views of his book. No doubt Perry's an extremist, much farther to the right than Obama is left. (Among other Perry gems: no direct election of senators, elimination of SS/Medicare due to unconstitutionality, raising taxes on the bottom 50% to preserve tax cuts on the top 2%--a total absurdity since the bottom 50% controls a whopping 2% of the nation's wealth, how the hell are they supposed to pay?) If Obama can paint Perry as the extremist he is, then he can win. But this economy just leads to a malaise among independents a little more each day, so I'm getting a bit pessimistic.

Perry really isn't running for the Presidency. He's running for the nom. That's obvious.

What he transforms himself into after winning the nom is the question.

My belief is that this will be a tough Texas Two-step to appeal to the I's after a brutal R campaign.

Let's face it, the R money people are dead scared of the Tea Party. They know that Perry can raise huge sums from people that can go into the various PACs that are now "people".

They want a candidate that will be soft on regulatory oversight and corporate taxes, but they have lost control of the R base. Molto nervoso.

266 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:22:22pm

re: #263 ProLifeLiberal

Now, the Syrian Opposition must form some sort of cohesive, semi-legitimate opposition government. Like Libya's NTC.

In fact, a near clone of the NTC would do it.

267 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:22:37pm

Better than Perry's coyote story:

Alligator tries to drag 90-year-old woman into a Florida canal

Dwain Daniels, who was driving by, stopped to help the woman, Ferraro said, and pulled her out of the water away from the alligator. But that didn't stop the huge reptile, which tried to come out of the water three times.

Daniels shot the alligator between the eyes with a .22 Magnum rifle, according to the incident report from the wildlife commission, and it retreated into the water.

268 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:23:00pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

True. Rubio also did well among Dominicans (who are a greater portion of Latinos in Florida than elsewhere). Among Mexicans, he did make that much of an improvement. But Mexicans are a much smaller part of the Latino population in Florida than in Arizona or Texas. So Rubio is well positioned to keep and maintain the coalition he needs to maintain.

But on the larger question of "the Hispanic vote", the GOP is only making things worse for themselves. Mexican-Americans are by far the largest Hispanic group and the gop's nativism has alienated them for the foreseeable future. Cuban-Americans have always been an isolated exception. And a party that continues to emphasize a return to a mythical past (when Hispanics were second class citizens) isn't on its way to gaining any ground. Rove knew that this was dangerous for the gop because of the quickly growing Hispanic population, and the fact they are disproportionately young. Both Harry Reid and Obama illustrate the power of the Hispanic vote as it moves towards being overwhelmingly Democrat.

269 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:23:37pm

re: #263 ProLifeLiberal

Well, look what I just found:

I'm hoping it comes to pass.

To use an analogy, maybe as France was Libya, Spain will be to Syria (I hope).

It's a nice sentiment, but Spain has both a weaker military and weaker national position compared to France. France is basically sound as a nation at this time, while Spain has very serious economic problems.

I'm not faulting you, I'm just noting.

270 CarleeCork  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:23:39pm

re: #250 Gus 802

When you go out shopping tomorrow go ahead and try this on a few people. Ask them what they think about Rick Perry. Then listen to the responses. "I was never a big fan of his music." Or something. Mostly a lot of vacant looks.

Here in Texas you would hear how fabulous he is.

Fabulous is some code word here.

271 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:24:07pm

re: #230 Dark_Falcon

GAZE

Oh, stop that. This site has grown up. Engage in conversation.

272 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:24:23pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

I actually was not on when you asked, James. All I will say on that point right now is: If Perry is the nominee, I am not sure what I will do.

I'd rather not think about that scenario, especially since the campaigns will likely deploy the rhetorical equivalents of chemical WMDs.

I might just vote against the last toxic partisanship I read before going to the polls.

273 BeenHereAwhile  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:25:21pm

re: #200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol you should have seen the first one I voted for.

I hereby nominate you for the "leap away from faith award."

274 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:26:35pm

re: #262 moderatelyradicalliberal

Oh that is an awesome idea. I love it!

Actually, I think it works better if Morgan Freeman reads it.

275 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:27:02pm

re: #265 austin_blue

What he transforms himself into after winning the nom is the question.

My belief is that this will be a tough Texas Two-step to appeal to the I's after a brutal R campaign.

I can def. see him trying that, but do you think he can actually appeal to them? He must have some way, b/c as you so often note, he's done it in TX for years. Q. is, on a national scale...and then against an incumbent. I don't think he can without a normal person also on the ticket.

276 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:27:04pm

re: #200 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol you should have seen the first one I voted for.

You voted for Pat Robertson?

277 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:27:22pm

re: #260 ggt

And we sent the USS Mercy? to Thailand to help them. We don't need to de-salinate any water for ourselves.

Nice we have the resources for both.

The mil are slaves to the Prez and politicians. But ... resources that are awesome in peacetime activities. Now even former mil groups have formed to take care of biz with their talents and training - wherever it may be. - guys and gals are in Vermont as we post - volunteers all.

278 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:27:29pm

re: #268 palomino

But on the larger question of "the Hispanic vote", the GOP is only making things worse for themselves. Mexican-Americans are by far the largest Hispanic group and the gop's nativism has alienated them for the foreseeable future. Cuban-Americans have always been an isolated exception. And a party that continues to emphasize a return to a mythical past (when Hispanics were second class citizens) isn't on its way to gaining any ground. Rove knew that this was dangerous for the gop because of the quickly growing Hispanic population, and the fact they are disproportionately young. Both Harry Reid and Obama illustrate the power of the Hispanic vote as it moves towards being overwhelmingly Democrat.

The thing is that being a socon wouldn't hurt too muchl among Mexicans. What the GOP needs is a social conservative who is not anti-immigrant (they can still be anti-illegal immigration). Someone who can make the case that alienating Mexicans is politically deadly.

279 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:27:54pm

re: #268 palomino

But on the larger question of "the Hispanic vote", the GOP is only making things worse for themselves. Mexican-Americans are by far the largest Hispanic group and the gop's nativism has alienated them for the foreseeable future. Cuban-Americans have always been an isolated exception. And a party that continues to emphasize a return to a mythical past (when Hispanics were second class citizens) isn't on its way to gaining any ground. Rove knew that this was dangerous for the gop because of the quickly growing Hispanic population, and the fact they are disproportionately young. Both Harry Reid and Obama illustrate the power of the Hispanic vote as it moves towards being overwhelmingly Democrat.

Yes. The Cuban vote in Florida is totally different from the Hispanic vote in the rest of the country. Damn good point.

280 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:28:27pm

re: #264 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No one has to jump when you snap.

not expected - you took that as a "snap"?

281 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:29:16pm

re: #271 austin_blue

Oh, stop that. This site has grown up. Engage in conversation.

She called my post "100% delusional". That isn't conversation, and GAZE is one of the nicer things I could have said.

282 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:29:27pm

re: #273 BeenHereAwhile

I hereby nominate you for the "leap away from faith award."

Heh well, I'm in excellent company. If you want a great story like that check out Frank Schaeffer. That's the grandest of scales.

Or, Oral Robert's grandson. This is a very brave young man. I hope he has good security detail!

Youtube Video
283 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:31:05pm

re: #276 Gus 802

You voted for Pat Robertson?

I did, yes. Me and my father, both.

284 EB71  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:32:36pm

There will be no real economic recovery before the 2012 election. There may be another recession (assuming the first one ended), or worse. People will be voting their perception of who is likely to lead the economy to improvement. The Republicans do not need a great candidate to win the 2012 election, just one that is acceptable. Does Rick Perry meet that threshold for the average independent? As long as the party in opposition has a disciplined 41+ votes in the Senate, a President's pre-election writings have little bearing on what he/she can achieve in office, in contrast to what he/she believes or might want to achieve. Since politics is the art of the possible, nothing too far to the left or too far to the right is going to be enacted into law as long as we have divided government. Checks and balances work. The Founding Fathers really did know what they were doing.

285 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:32:56pm

re: #280 Bobibutu

not expected - you took that as a "snap"?

Repeating: it's just not forthcoming on demand. I hope you don't have a problem with that.

286 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:33:00pm

Teachers being extorted for part of their salaries by drug gangs in Mexico.

I don't know why, with everything else that has happened in my lifetime, I don't freakin' believe this.

287 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:33:13pm

re: #275 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I can def. see him trying that, but do you think he can actually appeal to them? He must have some way, b/c as you so often note, he's done it in TX for years. Q. is, on a national scale...and then against an incumbent. I don't think he can without a normal person also on the ticket.

There's the rub!

288 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:33:43pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

France or Britain being lead interventionists in Syria would be....awkward.

Anyone else we can think of who would be able take that role? Turkey, perhaps?

Honestly, I hope that Libya puts fire in the belly of NATO. Now, all we need is the Syrian Opposition to develop leadership.

289 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:33:52pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

Yes, but Rubio knows this and has been working hard and effectively to maintain a political coalition behind him in Florida. And his successful outreach to Caribbean Latinos gives him the potential to broaden the GOP's base of support in Florida. Marco Rubio is a genuinely competent Senator, and his instincts are good. He may be in the Senate for a very long time.

The Cubans already vote Republican.

290 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:34:15pm

re: #267 jaunte

Better than Perry's coyote story:

Alligator tries to drag 90-year-old woman into a Florida canal

Glad he had the rifle!

291 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:34:31pm

re: #282 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Now, Oral's operation I can comment on as having direct experience back in the early 60s at his HQ in Tulsa and have done so before on LGF.

292 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:34:45pm

re: #268 palomino

But on the larger question of "the Hispanic vote", the GOP is only making things worse for themselves. Mexican-Americans are by far the largest Hispanic group and the gop's nativism has alienated them for the foreseeable future. Cuban-Americans have always been an isolated exception. And a party that continues to emphasize a return to a mythical past (when Hispanics were second class citizens) isn't on its way to gaining any ground. Rove knew that this was dangerous for the gop because of the quickly growing Hispanic population, and the fact they are disproportionately young. Both Harry Reid and Obama illustrate the power of the Hispanic vote as it moves towards being overwhelmingly Democrat.

My county is 31% hispanic. I don't see Perry winning it.

293 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:35:20pm

re: #281 Dark_Falcon

She called my post "100% delusional". That isn't conversation, and GAZE is one of the nicer things I could have said.

The correct response would have been "Why do you say that?"

Nicely, nicely, DF.

It's a kinder, gentler, LGF.

294 palomino  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:36:10pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

The thing is that being a socon wouldn't hurt too muchl among Mexicans. What the GOP needs is a social conservative who is not anti-immigrant (they can still be anti-illegal immigration). Someone who can make the case that alienating Mexicans is politically deadly.

Bush and Rove tried to make that case back in 2006. But the nativist streak in the party won out, and immigration reform disappeared from the Bush agenda. The idea that most Hispanics are socons may be erroneous. In California, Hispanics support gay marriage even more than whites, and far more than blacks.

Bottom line: when your party engages in rhetoric that longs for the past, people who were second class citizens during that mythic past will be turned off. And there are also economic issues; Hispanics aren't too hip to the rhetoric of eliminating SS/Medicare/Medicaid and getting rid of healthcare won't fly well with them either. Indeed, Hispanics are the strongest supporters of single payer health care. Fears of "statism" and creeping socialism seem to work well with middle age and older whites, but not most minorities.

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:36:31pm

re: #155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Rabbi Shmuley is kind of an interesting dude. I agree with about 2% of what he says, but his gig at HP kind of signaled to me what HP actually was, which is not "progressive" (whatever the hell "progressive" is), at all.

Shmuley Boteach did what?

Oh, that fucking little weasel bigot.

I have no time nor patience for him any more.

296 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:37:32pm

re: #179 ggt

Even the Catholics have their share of crazies.

A few Catholics still insist Galileo was wrong.

I'd change that to a few Catholics NOW insist Galileo was wrong.

This is a newfangled thing.

297 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:37:34pm

re: #274 JasonA

Actually, I think it works better if Morgan Freeman reads it.

No Samual L. Jackson. He's great at narration.

Go the Fuck to Sleep

Youtube Video
298 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:37:39pm

re: #293 austin_blue

The correct response would have been "Why do you say that?"

Nicely, nicely, DF.

It's a kinder, gentler, LGF.

DF was being nice. Engaging in such conversation would have caused the thread to deteriorate.

299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:38:09pm

re: #278 Dark_Falcon

The thing is that being a socon wouldn't hurt too muchl among Mexicans.

This is just more wishful, delusional thinking. Mexicans don't vote here.

Conservative Republicans have been trying to appeal to us on the basis of our soconnism, that is, when they're not scapegoating us for the state of entire economies, falls of cities, moral debasement through mass dissemination of what they claim is our cultural pathologies, etc.

Having been part of it, I know their methods, quite well.

Hasn't worked for them very well, since none of them know any of us, anyway.

300 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:38:16pm

re: #297 moderatelyradicalliberal

No Samual L. Jackson. He's great at narration.

Go the Fuck to Sleep

[Video]

I was thinking the same thing!

LOL

301 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:38:39pm

re: #288 ProLifeLiberal

France or Britain being lead interventionists in Syria would be...awkward.

Anyone else we can think of who would be able take that role? Turkey, perhaps?

Honestly, I hope that Libya puts fire in the belly of NATO. Now, all we need is the Syrian Opposition to develop leadership.

The other problem is that Russia still has a naval base in Syria and Iran keeps Syria as a client. A prolonged struggle inside Syria would also pull Iraq away from the US (Iraqi Shiites do not want the Sunni majority in Syria to take power). Given the potential mess, I'm not sure if its in our best interests to take direct action. In fact, we might win credit within Iraq if we ruled direct action by NATO out. I'm not giving a recommendation that we do that, but I think its something to consider.

302 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:39:08pm

re: #291 Bobibutu

Now, Oral's operation I can comment on as having direct experience back in the early 60s at his HQ in Tulsa and have done so before on LGF.

I have a bit of x-degrees of separation from that set, myself. OREA?

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:40:24pm

re: #267 jaunte

Better than Perry's coyote story:

Alligator tries to drag 90-year-old woman into a Florida canal

Now, you see, THIS guy with a gun I'm impressed with!!

304 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:40:36pm

re: #296 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd change that to a few Catholics NOW insist Galileo was wrong.

This is a newfangled thing.

Utterly mind-boggling.

Some are still angry about Vatican II.

305 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:40:38pm

re: #294 palomino

Bush and Rove tried to make that case back in 2006. But the nativist streak in the party won out, and immigration reform disappeared from the Bush agenda. The idea that most Hispanics are socons may be erroneous. In California, Hispanics support gay marriage even more than whites, and far more than blacks.

Bottom line: when your party engages in rhetoric that longs for the past, people who were second class citizens during that mythic past will be turned off. And there are also economic issues; Hispanics aren't too hip to the rhetoric of eliminating SS/Medicare/Medicaid and getting rid of healthcare won't fly well with them either. Indeed, Hispanics are the strongest supporters of single payer health care. Fears of "statism" and creeping socialism seem to work well with middle age and older whites, but not most minorities.

This is it. The problem is the rational voices on immigration in the Republican Party lost out to the crazies. Remember when Jan Brewer said that illegals were going around beheading people and I remember a Republican candidate for Congress making dereagdory remarks about the Spanish language tool. If the Republicans were what they are now on immigration when the Cubans first started emigrating in large waves following Castro's ascendancy then I think they wouldn't have adapted the Republican Party the way they did. It's the same thing with Southeast Asians who adopted the Republican Party because people like former President Ford saw their hopes and dreams. Illegal immigration is a problem, yes but we need to stop scapegoating these people and stop dehumanizing htem which is something I see far too many rabidly anti illegal candidates too most of whom are Republicans. Also didn't John McCain recently make a crazy statement blaming illegals for wildfires even though a ranger said that was complete nonsense. The GOP needs to stop it with the fear of the other nonsense. I've seen it too much here in local Virginia politics.

306 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:41:59pm

re: #305 HappyWarrior

This is it. The problem is the rational voices on immigration in the Republican Party lost out to the crazies. Remember when Jan Brewer said that illegals were going around beheading people and I remember a Republican candidate for Congress making dereagdory remarks about the Spanish language tool. If the Republicans were what they are now on immigration when the Cubans first started emigrating in large waves following Castro's ascendancy then I think they wouldn't have adapted the Republican Party the way they did. It's the same thing with Southeast Asians who adopted the Republican Party because people like former President Ford saw their hopes and dreams. Illegal immigration is a problem, yes but we need to stop scapegoating these people and stop dehumanizing htem which is something I see far too many rabidly anti illegal candidates too most of whom are Republicans.

Bush II had the right idea with Guest Worker Passes. He was the only one that seemed to grasp the reality of the situation. Everyone else was arguing about border rights . . . .

Too bad he didn't have what it took to get it implemented.

This is a human rights issue, IMHO. More than it is an economic or security issue.

307 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:42:12pm

re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, I don't doubt it. Bachmann, Palin, all that jazz, no chance. This guy, if he can get the nomination, will be a contendah.

Please read his book! Here in Tejas, we call it F'ed Up!

That's really what it's all about. 70 years of Socialism. He's a bug.

308 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:42:54pm

re: #300 ggt

I was thinking the same thing!

LOL

Funny comment on Youtube

Next in the series of adult children's books: "Stop Shitting yourself and use the toilet," "Tie Your Own Damn Shoe," and "Say 'Are we there yet' again. Say 'Are we there yet,' I dare you, I double dare you motherfucker, say 'Are we there yet' one more Goddamn time!

309 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:43:26pm

re: #301 Dark_Falcon

Also 3 NATO countries are unable to participate in such an action

Norway was forced to pull out of Aggressive Actions of August 1st. They were running down on ammo.

Denmark and the United Kingdom are also running low.

Any NATO intervention in Syria would rely on unusual suspects. Like Turkey, Poland, Canada, and the Central European Nations.

310 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:43:40pm

re: #283 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I did, yes. Me and my father, both.

That's cool. We all have our different way-points in life. Guess I'm expressing the obvious. I finished going through my Republican stage in 2008. Having voted for Bush/Cheney in 2004 and McCain/Palin in 2008. In 1980 I voted for Ted Kennedy in the primary (who won in NJ) and then Carter in the general. After election day I proceeded to be very pissed off about the results.

311 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:44:12pm

re: #298 ggt

DF was being nice. Engaging in such conversation would have caused the thread to deteriorate.

Maybe.

312 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:44:30pm

re: #304 ggt

Utterly mind-boggling.

Some are still angry about Vatican II.

I'm reading a novel set in 77 AD. The protagonist is visiting the library at Alexandria, and asks an astronomy professor he's talking to if he goes with the geocentric or heliocentric system.

The professor tells him he's a sun man. That wasn't a guess, although the science wasn't entirely settled yet, they were doing it by the math.

This was nearly two thousand years ago.

We've been to space, since.

"Traditionalist" Catholics aren't.

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:45:08pm

re: #311 austin_blue

Maybe.

I'm pretty sure.

314 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:45:53pm

Evangelicals vet Gov. Rick Perry at Texas retreat
The Republican presidential hopeful discusses his faith and pledges to pursue Christian conservatives' antiabortion and anti-gay-marriage agenda.

By Tom Hamburger and Matea Gold, Washington Bureau

September 2, 2011
Reporting from Washington—

On a remote ranch more than 70 miles west of Austin, Texas, top evangelical leaders from around the country assembled last weekend for a private two-day retreat.

It wasn't a religious revival that drew the group of 200, which included luminaries of the Christian right; it was the chance to hear the personal testimony of one man: Rick Perry.

Inside an air-conditioned tent, the Texas governor and Republican presidential contender was grilled about his beliefs and his record in extraordinarily frank sessions. He responded by describing his relationship with Jesus and pledging to pursue the antiabortion and anti-gay-marriage agenda championed by the evangelical right, according to multiple participants...

315 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:47:17pm

re: #309 ProLifeLiberal

I do wonder if there is a way to make NATO be seen as better than we are right now in the Arab World if anyone gets my drift.

316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:47:27pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm reading a novel set in 77 AD. The protagonist is visiting the library at Alexandria, and asks an astronomy professor he's talking to if he goes with the geocentric or heliocentric system.

The professor tells him he's a sun man. That wasn't a guess, although the science wasn't entirely settled yet, they were doing it by the math.

This was nearly two thousand years ago.

We've been to space, since.

"Traditionalist" Catholics aren't.

What's the novel?

317 moderatelyradicalliberal  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:47:57pm

Good night all!

318 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:48:06pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

Chris Christie is someone I'd really like to see run for President someday.

HA ha, Governor Harkonen will never become President.

319 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:48:41pm

re: #293 austin_blue

The correct response would have been "Why do you say that?"

Nicely, nicely, DF.

It's a kinder, gentler, LGF.

I've tried nice with her and it got me nowhere. She's made it clear she doesn't respect my political views, so when when she expresses that lack of respect in comments, I give those comments the backhand. I'm not in mood to take bullshit right now.

320 Mocking Jay  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:48:55pm

re: #318 goddamnedfrank

HA ha, Governor Harkonen will never become President.

Ouch. Harsh, man.

321 BeenHereAwhile  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:49:00pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

True. Rubio also did well among Dominicans (who are a greater portion of Latinos in Florida than elsewhere). Among Mexicans, he did make that much of an improvement. But Mexicans are a much smaller part of the Latino population in Florida than in Arizona or Texas. So Rubio is well positioned to keep and maintain the coalition he needs to maintain.

Perhaps I am mis-reading what you wrote, but are you saying that there are more Dominican Hispanics voting in Florida, than Cuban or Puerto Rican?

322 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:49:00pm

re: #318 goddamnedfrank

HA ha, Governor Harkonen will never become President.

That's Baron, punk!

323 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:49:09pm

Monster puppy kissed me on the nose again.

He get's to live in the house another day.

324 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:49:23pm

re: #302 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I have a bit of x-degrees of separation from that set, myself.

I, on the other hand, and my associates, installed and maintained all of their data processing equipment. He was a "client" and treated as such. The inner workings of his establishment and fund raising effort using state of the art computer systems and data processing to gain his objectives were on the leading edge of marketing. He was a genius in attracting money.

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:49:30pm

re: #316 ggt

What's the novel?

"Alexandria", by Lindsay Davis. It's part of a series of mysteries starring one Marcus Didius Falco and his family.

326 wheat-dogg  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:49:41pm

re: #19 jamesfirecat

To rephrase the meaning of what I was going for *AHEM*

The GOP needs to hit rock bottom before it can start getting better.

So, in other words, the GOP is like an alcoholic or a drug user, who has to wake up in some dark alley with puke and pee all over his clothes before he realizes he should get some help?

Sounds about right.

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:50:23pm

re: #325 SanFranciscoZionist

"Alexandria", by Lindsay Davis. It's part of a series of mysteries starring one Marcus Didius Falco and his family.

I read the Silver Pigs. If I ever get thru Claudius the God, I might go back to Lindsay Davis. I have the Grass Crown in ppbk. I want to finish it first. It wasn't available on audio.

328 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:51:02pm

re: #304 ggt

Utterly mind-boggling.

Some are still angry about Vatican II.

Fish sticks, tuna casserole, and canned salmon cakes on every third Friday? Way to celebrate God!.

I still remember the Latin masses of my yoot.

Dominus vobiscum, followed by God's phone number:

Et cum spiritu tuo.

329 jaunte  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:51:09pm

re: #314 Gus 802

Participants were asked not to disclose details or take photographs or audio recordings of the proceedings

"We're proud to be here, and yet unaccountable to outsiders."

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:51:46pm

re: #329 jaunte

"We're proud to be here, and yet unaccountable to outsiders."

WE DEMAND TRANSPARANCY.

Hypocrites.

331 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:52:23pm

re: #328 austin_blue

Fish sticks, tuna casserole, and canned salmon cakes on every third Friday? Way to celebrate God!.

I still remember the Latin masses of my yoot.

Dominus vobiscum, followed by God's phone number:

Et cum spiritu tuo.

Giving up Candy for Lent was the deal-breaker for me.

332 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:53:39pm

re: #309 ProLifeLiberal

Also 3 NATO countries are unable to participate in such an action

Norway was forced to pull out of Aggressive Actions of August 1st. They were running down on ammo.

Denmark and the United Kingdom are also running low.

Any NATO intervention in Syria would rely on unusual suspects. Like Turkey, Poland, Canada, and the Central European Nations.

The UK can make more ammo if needed, so they'll get by. But I'm not sure such an intervention would be wise. I'd rather push at Assad with measures short of actual military attacks. Given our need to maintain our relationship with Iraq, I have to question whether any direct action would be in our interest.

333 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:55:59pm

re: #321 BeenHereAwhile

Perhaps I am mis-reading what you wrote, but are you saying that there are more Dominican Hispanics voting in Florida, than Cuban or Puerto Rican?

No, I am not saying that. I was only saying that in Florida Dominicans make up a larger portion of the Latino population than they (Dominicans) do in other states with a large Latino population. In those other states, Mexicans are a larger section of the Latino population than they are in Florida.

334 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:56:12pm

re: #310 Gus 802

That's cool. We all have our different way-points in life. Guess I'm expressing the obvious. I finished going through my Republican stage in 2008. Having voted for Bush/Cheney in 2004 and McCain/Palin in 2008. In 1980 I voted for Ted Kennedy in the primary (who won in NJ) and then Carter in the general. After election day I proceeded to be very pissed off about the results.

Ah so you know from exp what I've been trying to tell people regarding this "primary Obama" nonsense. I often ask, so, when has that ever worked? Like..EVER.

But yeah, I can relate to Charles' spot with the rwnj because I have been there and know the concentric, endless depths of their viciousness.

335 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:56:17pm

re: #313 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm pretty sure.

I'll concede the point in fairness to the women on the board who have a much greater feel of the gestalt, here.

We are guys. We are full of testosterone. Which *way* too many times causes us to post absolute WJWW%@#$%^&*SDFGHJK bullshit.

Pulls forelock.

336 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:56:38pm

re: #211 ggt

I tried to say that in my #178.

You said it so much better.

He reminds me of Tommy Lee Jones in MIB. I keep expecting him to unzip his human suit and reveal the alien underneath.

Umm, don't you mean Vincent D'Onofrio's character (Edgar, the giant bug in the human "suit")?

;-P

337 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:57:24pm

re: #328 austin_blue

Fish sticks, tuna casserole, and canned salmon cakes on every third Friday? Way to celebrate God!.

I still remember the Latin masses of my yoot.

Dominus vobiscum, followed by God's phone number:

Et cum spiritu tuo.

I had a carne asada taco in Mexico on a Friday during lent with the boss's daughter. When we went back to work, someone pointed out that she had eaten beef during lent, and her face turned flush. She turned to me and said we just sinned. I said "Whaa? I'm not Catholic".

338 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 9:58:54pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

I've tried nice with her and it got me nowhere. She's made it clear she doesn't respect my political views, so when when she expresses that lack of respect in comments, I give those comments the backhand. I'm not in mood to take bullshit right now.

Well put, well said. I hope that we are good, my friend?

339 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:03:04pm

Crush......... I need a keyboard video.

Thanks for the Greg Lake the other day.

340 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:04:06pm

re: #318 goddamnedfrank

HA ha, Governor Harkonen will never become President.

Upding for the Dune reference, you clever boots.

341 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:04:22pm

re: #337 Mr Pancakes

I had a carne asada taco in Mexico on a Friday during lent with the boss's daughter. When we went back to work, someone pointed out that she had eaten beef during lent, and her face turned flush. She turned to me and said we just sinned. I said "Whaa? I'm not Catholic".

Yeah. I tell ya'. Having a carne asada during lent ought to be worth 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of burning in hell.

//

342 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:05:06pm

re: #336 talon_262

Umm, don't you mean Vincent D'Onofrio's character (Edgar, the giant bug in the human "suit")?

;-P

Yeah, well, you get the idea.

343 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:05:29pm

re: #341 Gus 802

Yeah. I tell ya'. Having a carne asada during lent ought to be worth 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of burning in hell.

//

Venial sin. Purgatory.

Oh, wait...

344 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:05:47pm

re: #341 Gus 802

Yeah. I tell ya'. Having a carne asada during lent ought to be worth 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of burning in hell.

//

Well we'll see..... I make sure my consumed meat is extra bloody during lent.

345 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:06:04pm

re: #343 austin_blue

Venial sin. Purgatory.

Oh, wait...

I thought they got rid of that?

//

346 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:07:53pm

re: #345 Gus 802

I thought they got rid of that?

//

I'm leasing it.

347 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:08:00pm

re: #341 Gus 802

Yeah. I tell ya'. Having a carne asada during lent ought to be worth 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years of burning in hell.

Such a deal on plenary indulgences I have for you.

Stock up while the supply lasts!

348 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:08:25pm

re: #346 Varek Raith

I'm leasing it.

As long as you are paying taxes on it.

349 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:08:47pm

Night people.

350 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:10:34pm

re: #345 Gus 802

I thought they got rid of that?

//

Hence the "Oh, wait.."

Where do little punishments go now?

351 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:11:06pm

re: #350 austin_blue

Hence the "Oh, wait.."

Where do little punishments go now?

To Congress?

/

352 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:11:15pm

re: #350 austin_blue

Hence the "Oh, wait.."

Where do little punishments go now?

Wasn't Purgatory a waiting room?

353 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:12:13pm

Midnight! I just turned into a large orange squash.

Night, all. Sweet scaly dreams.

354 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:12:41pm

re: #353 austin_blue

Midnight! I just turned into a large orange squash.

Night, all. Sweet scaly dreams.

Becareful, someone might make a pie out of you!

355 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:13:18pm

re: #354 ggt

Becareful, someone might make a pie out of you!

Mmm, pumpkin pie *drools*

356 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:13:38pm

I need coffee.
Hey, someone here go get me some.
:)

357 austin_blue  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:13:57pm

re: #347 jvic

Such a deal on plenary indulgences I have for you.

Stock up while the supply lasts!

Couldn't resist.

Too jewish!

Really, goodnight.

358 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:14:47pm

re: #324 Bobibutu

I, on the other hand, and my associates, installed and maintained all of their data processing equipment. He was a "client" and treated as such. The inner workings of his establishment and fund raising effort using state of the art computer systems and data processing to gain his objectives were on the leading edge of marketing. He was a genius in attracting money.

That, he was. I don't dislike Oral. I just can't stand his followers and hey, feeling's mutual.

One of the points I make often is that people can learn a lot from Pentecostals and Charismatics use of technology. Even given the anti-science/evolution bit, they've always been that way. People also don't know about or understand the City of Faith, either...another interesting story. Anyway, the embrace of technology is why I'm still in tech, today.

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:14:49pm

re: #356 Varek Raith

I need coffee.
Hey, someone here go get me some.
:)

Only for you, Varek.

360 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:15:03pm

re: #355 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Mmm, pumpkin pie *drools*

I make them from scratch after Halloween...... my daughter loves that. No sense in letting the Jack-o-lanterns go to waste.

361 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:15:11pm

re: #347 jvic

Such a deal on plenary indulgences I have for you.

Stock up while the supply lasts!

But can I get them wholesale?

362 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:16:21pm

Hey. If I wind up in hell for being an atheist I'm going to complain to the management there. Seems rather excessive spending eternity being burned and tortured to death for that. I'm flexible and I'm sure we could work something out.

//

363 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:17:04pm

re: #360 Mr Pancakes

I make them from scratch after Halloween... my daughter loves that. No sense in letting the Jack-o-lanterns go to waste.

True. We roasted the seeds last year and they came out pretty tasty.

364 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:17:27pm

re: #362 Gus 802

Hey. If I wind up in hell for being an atheist I'm going to complain to the management there. Seems rather excessive spending eternity being burned and tortured to death for that. I'm flexible and I'm sure we could work something out.

//

Ummmm..... you could be a believer and still burn in hell.

365 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:17:43pm

re: #359 ggt

Only for you, Varek.

Awesome.

366 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:18:10pm

re: #362 Gus 802

Hey. If I wind up in hell for being an atheist I'm going to complain to the management there. Seems rather excessive spending eternity being burned and tortured to death for that. I'm flexible and I'm sure we could work something out.

//

Geez man, keep it down! You're gonna get us both in trouble with the Prince of Darkness!

//

367 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:18:39pm

re: #362 Gus 802

Hey. If I wind up in hell for being an atheist I'm going to complain to the management there. Seems rather excessive spending eternity being burned and tortured to death for that. I'm flexible and I'm sure we could work something out.

//

No.
See, we go the the part of hell where our only punishment in "knowing the absence of God".
Basically, like we feel anyways.
:)

368 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:19:22pm

re: #366 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Geez man, keep it down! You're gonna get us both in trouble with the Prince of Darkness!

//

You called?

369 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:19:39pm

re: #368 Varek Raith

You called?

Ozzy?

370 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:19:55pm

Drunken Sailer - Irish Rovers

Youtube Video
371 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:20:51pm

Hurry up coffee maker!
Instant my ass.
:P

372 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:21:29pm

re: #361 ggt

But can I get them wholesale?

Of course. Holy wholesale.

373 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:21:53pm

re: #368 Varek Raith

You called?

Barney? Barney the Dinosaur, is that you?

/

374 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:22:48pm

re: #371 Varek Raith

Hurry up coffee maker!
Instant my ass.
:P

Instant coffee is some brown granules that you stir in hot water.

375 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:22:53pm

re: #345 Gus 802

I thought they got rid of that?

//

No.
It's limbo that's now in limbo, so to speak.

376 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:23:18pm
Youtube Video
377 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:23:44pm

re: #376 Varek Raith

[Video]

Isn't that, like, a paradox???

Bugger, messed up the post.
:/

378 Bob Dillon  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:23:45pm

re: #358 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Gotta agree with you. I am retired but still a techie.

379 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:24:50pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

Bugger, messed up the post.
:/

you sure did!
I don't know how you got all those italics and the video and etc. so screwed up.
Never seen the likes of it.

380 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:25:31pm

re: #379 reine.de.tout

you sure did!
I don't know how you got all those italics and the video and etc. so screwed up.
Never seen the likes of it.

That's just how special I am!

381 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:26:07pm

re: #358 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That, he was. I don't dislike Oral. I just can't stand his followers and hey, feeling's mutual.

One of the points I make often is that people can learn a lot from Pentecostals and Charismatics use of technology. Even given the anti-science/evolution bit, they've always been that way. People also don't know about or understand the City of Faith, either...another interesting story. Anyway, the embrace of technology is why I'm still in tech, today.

I'm a big fan of oral myself.

382 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:26:27pm

re: #380 Varek Raith

That's just how special I am!

Fixed it.
I like the edit feature.

383 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:27:01pm

re: #375 reine.de.tout

No.
It's limbo that's now in limbo, so to speak.

Take 2!
Action!

Isn't that a paradox???

384 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:27:48pm

re: #376 Varek Raith

[Video]

Awesome song BTW.

385 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:28:50pm

re: #374 Mr Pancakes

Instant coffee is some brown granules that you stir in hot water.

HERETIC!

386 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:29:19pm

re: #385 ggt

HERETIC!

I've only been told.

387 BeenHereAwhile  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:29:22pm

re: #282 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Heh well, I'm in excellent company. If you want a great story like that check out Frank Schaeffer. That's the grandest of scales.

Or, Oral Robert's grandson. This is a very brave young man. I hope he has good security detail!

[Video]

I read Schaeffer's blog, (think his father would have fit right in with the Nicene Counsel).

As for Oral Roberts or Billy Graham, who were not the first contemporary bunkshooters to take the stage, I wish their offspring well.

388 reine.de.tout  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:30:05pm

re: #382 Varek Raith

Fixed it.
I like the edit feature.

Crap.
I liked the screw-up. Had character.

389 Kragar  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:32:06pm

re: #385 ggt

HERETIC!

WHERE?!

390 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:33:22pm

Coffee Time With Cockatiel


Video version is funny

391 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:33:42pm

re: #389 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

WHERE?!

Right HERE, in River City!

392 Gus  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:33:55pm

Waltzing Mathilda

Youtube Video

The Pogues

393 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:34:00pm

re: #366 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Geez man, keep it down! You're gonna get us both in trouble with the Prince of Darkness!

//

When I was little kid, I took things very literally. "How can you borrow money, or a cup of sugar? You're gonna use that, not bring it back. That's not borrowing".

Anyway, I once found myself around these churchy types, and they're carrying on about 'The Man Upstairs' and 'The Man Downstairs'.

"You don't want to mess with 'The Man Upstairs', he'll put the hurt on you". Lots of very sincere nods and agreements in the group.

"Oh, but you don't want to mess with 'The Man Downstairs' either, he'll ruin your life." More of the same sincere nods.

And I was sitting there thinking "Geez, what kind of fucked up apartment building do these people live in"?

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:35:05pm

re: #390 Varek Raith

Coffee Time With Cockatiel

Video version is funny

too funny!

395 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:35:29pm

re: #391 ggt

Right HERE, in River City!

With a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for pool.

396 Kragar  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:36:01pm

re: #391 ggt

Right HERE, in River City!

Better call for Exterminatus, just to be sure...

397 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:37:23pm

Image: funny-car-photos-longest-light-ever-red-stop-impatient-fire.jpg

398 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:38:24pm

re: #391 ggt

Right HERE, in River City!

Heresy? Not for long.

In a backwater like River City, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

399 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:41:19pm

re: #398 jvic

Heresy? Not for long.

In a backwater like River City, no one expects the Spanish Inquisition.

With a capital H which doesn't rhyme with P . . oh wait.

400 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:43:31pm

re: #381 Mr Pancakes

I'm a big fan of oral myself.

FWIU, you are not alone in that (!)

401 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:43:54pm

re: #286 ggt

Teachers being extorted for part of their salaries by drug gangs in Mexico.

I don't know why, with everything else that has happened in my lifetime, I don't freakin' believe this.

I'm still kinda freakin' over this.

Teachers?

402 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:46:36pm

re: #401 ggt

I'm still kinda freakin' over this.

Teachers?

Mexico is broken........ I'm sure it's not just teachers.

403 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:47:02pm

re: #390 Varek Raith

Coffee Time With Cockatiel

Video version is funny

My mom had one of those. Mean little cuss, but he loved my mom. She'd stick her index finger out, and he'd duck down his head for scratchies. He loved that. Anyone else that stuck their finger out, well, he'd still duck down his head, but only long enough for your finger to get close. Then he'd swivel his noggin and bite ya.

You also couldn't keep a clean mirror in his cage. He'd spit on it until the reflection was completely obscured, because "Fuck that bird in the other cage, I don't want to look at him".

404 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:49:19pm

re: #403 Slumbering Behemoth

My mom had one of those. Mean little cuss, but he loved my mom. She'd stick her index finger out, and he'd duck down his head for scratchies. He loved that. Anyone else that stuck their finger out, well, he'd still duck down his head, but only long enough for your finger to get close. Then he'd swivel his noggin and bite ya.

You also couldn't keep a clean mirror in his cage. He'd spit on it until the reflection was completely obscured, because "Fuck that bird in the other cage, I don't want to look at him".

Yep...... that would be about time to try fried Cockatiel in Buffalo wing sauce.

405 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:49:28pm

re: #403 Slumbering Behemoth

My mom had one of those. Mean little cuss, but he loved my mom. She'd stick her index finger out, and he'd duck down his head for scratchies. He loved that. Anyone else that stuck their finger out, well, he'd still duck down his head, but only long enough for your finger to get close. Then he'd swivel his noggin and bite ya.

You also couldn't keep a clean mirror in his cage. He'd spit on it until the reflection was completely obscured, because "Fuck that bird in the other cage, I don't want to look at him".

Monster Puppy will look at himself in the mirror for a long time. He started by getting up close and trying to sniff out the other puppy. Now he get's comfortable and just watches to see what that other puppy is going to do.

406 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:50:25pm

Cow.
Image: funny-car-photos-animal-transport-size-s-cow-tiny-storage.jpg

407 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:51:20pm

re: #401 ggt

I'm still kinda freakin' over this.

Teachers?

re: #402 Mr Pancakes

Mexico is broken... I'm sure it's not just teachers.

As a no-nonsense secure-the-borders conservative, I am chagrined--no, I am ashamed--to acknowledge that the US bears considerable responsibility for Mexico's condition.

408 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:51:21pm

There's the weather, of course, when it's in season.

No trouble around here.

Well, we'll have to create some.

409 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:52:21pm

re: #407 jvic

re: #402 Mr Pancakes

As a no-nonsense secure-the-borders conservative, I am chagrined--no, I am ashamed--to acknowledge that the US bears considerable responsibility for Mexico's condition.

Oh absolutely..... we are their cash cow.

410 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:54:01pm

re: #409 Mr Pancakes

Oh absolutely... we are their cash cow.

Not any more.

411 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:54:24pm

re: #410 ggt

Not any more.

How so?

412 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:54:38pm

re: #404 Mr Pancakes

Yep... that would be about time to try fried Cockatiel in Buffalo wing sauce.

Nah, that was the fun part. New person comes over... "Mom, show 'em how your bird loves to be scratched behind the head". :Mom demonstrates:

And when she leaves the room I say "What a lovable little guy. Go ahead, give him a scratch".

413 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:55:23pm

re: #411 Mr Pancakes

How so?

Well, if they are going after their own teachers . . . .

414 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:56:00pm

re: #408 ggt

There's the weather, of course, when it's in season.

No trouble around here.

Well, we'll have to create some.

Boy, I think this must be the GOP playbook.

I haven't watched that scene in quite a while.

415 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:59:12pm

re: #413 ggt

Well, if they are going after their own teachers . . .

It's only because they are emboldened. Drug smuggling to the US gives them that....... shake downs are just a show of power.

416 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 10:59:43pm

Good Night Ladies!

Have a great morning!

417 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:01:14pm

re: #415 Mr Pancakes

It's only because they are emboldened. Drug smuggling to the US gives them that... shake downs are just a show of power.

Actually, I think there was a newsblurb about illegal immigration being down because there isn't the work here there once was. Either that or American's are finally so tired of being out-of-work they are doing the jobs they wouldn't before.

Too tired to google it, sorry.

Night all!

418 jvic  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:02:19pm

re: #413 ggt

Well, if they are going after their own teachers . . .

The cartels are diversifying. They might survive even if the Drug War ceased today.

Here's a conspiracy theory: how many American officials have received credible threats not to end the Drug War?

419 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:03:55pm

re: #418 jvic

The cartels are diversifying. They might survive even if the Drug War ceased today.

Here's a conspiracy theory: how many American officials have received credible threats not to end the Drug War?

When will I learn not to hit the "new comments" button?

I've often thought there was too much money involved for someone in government not to be complicit with the drug trade, but I'm not ready to buy into any theory without hard evidence.

NIGHT ALL!

420 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:08:21pm

re: #419 ggt

When will I learn not to hit the "new comments" button?

I've often thought there was too much money involved for someone in government not to be complicit with the drug trade, but I'm not ready to buy into any theory without hard evidence.

NIGHT ALL!

If that's the case, and somebody on our side was found to be complicit in the Mexico drug trade ...... it would be bigger than Wieners' wiener.

421 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:13:16pm

re: #420 Mr Pancakes

There doesn't even have to be complicity on our (DEA) side to see that fighting a "Drug War" means job security for many people.

422 Mr Pancakes  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:20:24pm

re: #421 Slumbering Behemoth

There doesn't even have to be complicity on our (DEA) side to see that fighting a "Drug War" means job security for many people.

We catch a bad guy once in a while. I probably see it more often being so close to the border.

423 boxhead  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:41:12pm

Great.... just what we need. A significant percentage of USA Citizens willing to elect an anti science President.... sheesh...

424 Kragar  Thu, Sep 1, 2011 11:55:09pm

Someone needs to stop George Lucas before he strikes again:

Nooo! George Lucas Makes More Changes to Original Trilogy

425 laZardo  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:02:50am

re: #418 jvic

The cartels are diversifying. They might survive even if the Drug War ceased today.

Here's a conspiracy theory: how many American officials have received credible threats not to end the Drug War?

They'll survive even if we "legalize it." The Mafia survived Prohibition.

426 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:08:39am

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

I've tried nice with her and it got me nowhere. She's made it clear she doesn't respect my political views, so when when she expresses that lack of respect in comments, I give those comments the backhand. I'm not in mood to take bullshit right now.

e_e just caught this bedwetting.

Fyi, i'm never in the mood to take bshit, including certain of your "political views", particularly of the sort that deny Arabs entrance tio the US or assign disporportionate weight to the same crime committed by a Black as a white.

That sort of thing discredits any "Views" you have on Republicans and Latinos and disqualifies you as a rational thinker about what counts as successful socalled "Outreach". Lol please, you are in no position to backhand me or anyone else on the topic.

You're totally off your rocker if you believe views based in stupid white nationalist stereotypes are supposed to command any kind of respect. How counterintuitive can you get, and don't offer up that asenine excuse you're just being honest. I'm also just being honest. Butch up and take it.

427 yoshicastmaster  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:35:25am

Great. Rick Perry. Because I want to live in a theocracy.

428 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:37:06am

I'm Rick Perry, beotch!

429 AK-47%  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:51:57am

He has a simple, sound-byte and bullet-point-friendly message that people can relate to:

cut taxes, abolish regulations, create jobs

The sort of message that is well couched in a 30-second TV spot with swelling music and a pan shot of amber waves of grain under a glowing sunset against a backdrop of purple mountains' majesty.

One can shoot all kinds of holes in this argument, but that requires arguments that take up entire sentences, if not paragraphs and nobody has the interest or the attention span to follow them any more.

All Perry needs to do is to win a couple of primaries and establish himself as the official Front Runner and Great White Hope (and not just in the figurative sense) against Obama.

430 freetoken  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:00:13am
MP3 Audio
431 freetoken  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:46:08am
MP3 Audio
432 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:03:59am

Morning Honcos.

433 researchok  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:19:30am

Morning, all

434 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:47:34am

If you haven't seen this video, it is effing graphic. I PRAY this guy does some prison time. And if he ends up with a felony, he will lose his job because he works at a hospital. Can't pass the background check with a violent felony. FAIL!!!
NSFW

Youtube Video
435 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:48:24am

re: #434 Cannadian Club Akbar

Story.
[Link: www.examiner.com...]

436 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 2:51:52am

re: #434 Cannadian Club Akbar

Redneck games can hurt. Looks like they all learned valuable lessons.

437 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:14:48am

"It's time for the bully pulpit of the White House to bring the gangsters in, put them around the table and let them know that if they don't come up with loan modifications and keep people in their homes that they've worked so hard for, we're going to tax them out of business," Waters said at a Congressional Black Caucus event in Los Angeles.
[Link: www.businessinsider.com...]

Tax banks out of business? Look, first tax the coal companies out of business, THEN we can move on to the banks.
//

438 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:23:29am

How come I never heard of this song?

Youtube Video

Brilliant.

439 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:23:42am

Speaking of banks:

Infrastructure bank could be part of jobs package
[Link: www.google.com...]

Supporters, which range from the Chamber of Commerce to the AFL-CIO, say pension funds, private equity funds and sovereign wealth funds have hundreds of billions of dollars ready to be invested in low-risk infrastructure projects.

440 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:23:45am

What is the over/under on the percentage of people who will think Apollo 18 is based on facts?

441 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:34:31am

SAN DIEGO — Investigators have ruled that a woman who was found hanging naked from a second-floor balcony at a historic California mansion with her wrists and ankles bound committed suicide, the woman's sister said Thursday.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I posted this story when it first happened. It is possible to commit suicide with your wrist bound behind you. But it seems like a bunch of work. I'd probably just take a nap instead.

442 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:37:59am

re: #439 RogueOne

That's a great idea, actually.

443 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:38:39am

re: #441 Cannadian Club Akbar

It does seem like a lot of work to go through to off yourself. IIRC, wasn't there an incident where the boyfriends son ended up on the hospital a few days earlier? Did they decide there was a connection between the two incidents or not?

444 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:39:59am

re: #442 Obdicut

That's a great idea, actually.

Possibly, it does have a lot of support. Mort Zuckerman said he suggested it to the Obama administration 2 years ago.

445 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:40:12am

re: #443 RogueOne

It does seem like a lot of work to go through to off yourself. IIRC, wasn't there an incident where the boyfriends son ended up on the hospital a few days earlier? Did they decide there was a connection between the two incidents or not?

I think the kid fell down a flight of stairs a day or two before. And IIRC, he died the day after the girl.

446 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:41:10am

re: #445 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't remember reading about him dying. I read the initial story the day the woman killed herself and nothing since your post.

447 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:44:39am

re: #446 RogueOne

I don't remember reading about him dying. I read the initial story the day the woman killed herself and nothing since your post.

Rebecca Zahau, 32, was found dead July 13 at the mansion in suburban Coronado, two days after a 6-year-old boy under her care was seriously injured in a fall down the stairs. Max Shacknai later died.
...

Investigators will also announce their findings on the boy's death Friday. They initially said they believed the fall was an accident.

448 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:53:51am

That cop who got caught having sex with a woman on the hood of a car won't be charged. The only thing I can think is there were no actual witnesses.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

449 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:55:59am

gadhafi: Surrender is for girls.


[Link: hosted.ap.org...]

The rebels have been hunting for Gadhafi since he was forced into hiding after they swept into Tripoli on Aug. 20 and gained control of most of the capital in subsequent days of fierce fighting.

"We won't surrender again; we are not women. We will keep fighting," Gadhafi said in a blustery tone in the audio statement, broadcast by Syrian-based Al-Rai TV. His voice was recognizable, and Al-Rai has previously broadcast statements by Gadhafi and his sons.

450 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:56:45am

re: #448 Cannadian Club Akbar

That cop who got caught having sex with a woman on the hood of a car won't be charged. The only thing I can think is there were no actual witnesses.
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Married or not, having sex in public is against the law. Release the video!

451 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:59:12am

re: #450 RogueOne

Married or not, having sex in public is against the law. Release the video!

I'm betting she already has offers from Vivid. Not that I know who or what Vivid is....

452 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:59:17am

Photo from Tripoli:

Image: 448648.png

453 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 3:59:59am

re: #451 Cannadian Club Akbar

On the sidebar there's a story that I'm too afraid to read. Do it for me:

Sinead O'Connor reveals sexual frustration on Web
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

454 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:00:08am

re: #450 RogueOne

Married or not, having sex in public is against the law. Release the video!

For $9.99 on any of the sites that sell X rated videos

(not that I would know anything about those sites)

455 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:02:35am

re: #453 RogueOne

On the sidebar there's a story that I'm too afraid to read. Do it for me:

Sinead O'Connor reveals sexual frustration on Web
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

The singer has four children by four partners and has been married 3 times, most recently to her long-time collaborator Steve Cooney in July 2010.

This one is a head scratcher.

456 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:07:36am

Heh,,,, Lefty is a Right

Golf great Phil Mickelson (nickname Lefty) was at Fenway Park throwing out the 1st pitch righthanded

[Link: www.boston.com...]

457 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:07:51am

BBL

458 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:24:06am

The finance ministry postponed implementing the measure until September to avoid impacting businesses during the peak tourist season. It has also exempted cafés and bars at tourist resorts offering all-inclusive packages from paying the extra VAT – a move that has upset hospitality operators on the Greek islands.
...
Evangelos Venizelos, the finance minister, said this week he planned to reverse the increase when an overhaul of the country’s tax administration, backed by the EU and IMF, was completed next year.

[Link: www.ft.com...]

I'll call bullshit. You aren't getting that genie back in the bottle.

459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:30:22am

re: #448 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I was younger (no, not yesterday... longer than that) a girl and I did just that. I didn't notice until the next day we put a big dent in the hood of my car (which I loved).

460 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:32:33am

Kelo Aftermath — The Final Indignity
[Link: gideonstrumpet.info...]

As regular readers of this blog know, the redevelopment project that gave rise to the wretched U.S. Supreme Court decision in Kelo v. New London, never came about. In spite of the city’s boasting about the quality of its plans, nothing was ever built on the Fort Trumbull site from which the city displaced an entire unoffending, well maintained lower middle-class neighborhood. Though the formal taking took place in 2000 and the U.S. Supreme Court gave its approval to it in 2005, the city’s project has been a failure, with 91 acres of waterfront property sitting there empty and overgrown by weeds.

Now, we learn from the local newspaper, The Day, that following the hurricane Irene, the city has designated the Fort Trumbull redevelopment site as a place to dump vegetation debris.
.....
Connecticut taxpayers have thus been soaked tens of millions of dollars, not just for nothing, but for making things worse — for transforming a nice local neighborhood into a dump.

461 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:42:17am

re: #460 RogueOne

Lowes built a store here and rather than using imminent domain, just went in to a black neighborhood and offered folks about three times their property value. It wasn't an old neighborhood; houses were built cheaply in the seventies and most were in disrepair.

They had the entire place cleared out in a month. People were dancing in the streets as they moved...

462 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:42:31am

re: #460 RogueOne

Kelo Aftermath — The Final Indignity
[Link: gideonstrumpet.info...]

But that was only a one time thing. *cough*
[Link: www.northcountrygazette.org...]

I'd get the money into some kind of trust first.
[Link: www.palmbeachpost.com...]

463 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:43:00am

There is so much stupid in this story it literally (///) hurts my feelings:

Frustrations Rise for Those Still Without Power
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

With Hurricane Irene's floodwaters receding across much of the East Coast, homeowners are mucking out their basements and dragging soggy furniture to the curb. But frustrations are rising as the wait for power drags on, with an estimated 895,000 homes and businesses still without electricity.
.....
In Rhode Island, a state senator is calling for an investigation, and a Massachusetts lawmaker plans to file legislation next week that would require utilities to rebate customers two days of service for every one day they are without power.
....
Politicians have been inundated with complaints from people who say it is taking too long. Rhode Island state Sen. John J. Tassoni Jr. on Thursday called on the state Public Utilities Commission to investigate National Grid.

"It is getting near to a week since the storm passed through our area and many Rhode Islanders are still without electricity," he said. "I think we need to ask the company some very pointed questions about its preparation for storms and the speed of its response to them."

464 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:47:15am

re: #463 RogueOne

There is so much stupid in this story it literally (///) hurts my feelings:

Frustrations Rise for Those Still Without Power
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Don't blame us!!
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

465 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:48:26am

re: #461 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lowes built a store here and rather than using imminent domain, just went in to a black neighborhood and offered folks about three times their property value. It wasn't an old neighborhood; houses were built cheaply in the seventies and most were in disrepair.

They had the entire place cleared out in a month. People were dancing in the streets as they moved...

If the state was taking the land for public use...I might no have liked it but they have that right and sometimes it's necessary. When the state forces people out of their homes to give the land to a private company? I find that outrageous.

466 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:50:04am

re: #463 RogueOne

There is so much stupid in this story it literally (///) hurts my feelings:

Frustrations Rise for Those Still Without Power
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Now is the time to replace the grid!

467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:50:33am

re: #463 RogueOne

There is so much stupid in this story it literally (///) hurts my feelings:

Frustrations Rise for Those Still Without Power
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

Impossible! Those kinds of feelings do not have pain sensors!!

Seriously though, what is up with our infrastructure? This is getting seriously bad.

468 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:54:18am

re: #464 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't blame us!!
[Link: www.baynews9.com...]

Every second the power is off it's costing them a lot of money on top of the repair bill. I understand people (customers) complaining but for elected officials to act like there's some sort of conspiracy going on that needs to be investigated ramps up the stupid factor. I live in town and I lose power for days at a time on a regular basis during winter. 3 years ago I went for a week (5 days) without because of an ice storm. We get hit with ice storms much more frequently than the East coast gets hit with hurricanes. Suck it up people.

469 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:55:53am

The NBC reporter on Morning Joe just said the power companies have had to hire security to protect their workers. Wow. I haven't read that anywhere.

470 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:56:15am

re: #468 RogueOne

Even elected officials need a boogeyman.

471 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:58:55am

re: #469 RogueOne

The NBC reporter on Morning Joe just said the power companies have had to hire security to protect their workers. Wow. I haven't read that anywhere.

From my link:
Most are linemen who will do the repair work, but also there are around 30 support personnel from engineers, to even security guards who will be making the trip.
Being proactive, I guess.

472 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:59:08am

re: #467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They're packed in tight and they got hit by a hurricane, It's going to take awhile to get it sorted out. The next time it happens hopefully people will remember and prepare just a little better. Or, like someone suggested the other day, move next to a mormon.

473 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:01:16am

re: #471 Cannadian Club Akbar

From my link:
Most are linemen who will do the repair work, but also there are around 30 support personnel from engineers, to even security guards who will be making the trip.
Being proactive, I guess.

Was that a suggestion that maybe I should have read your earlier post? I can take a hint.

474 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:03:30am

re: #473 RogueOne

Was that a suggestion that maybe I should have read your earlier post? I can take a hint.

If I was without power and I saw workers in the area, I'd be making them lunch and thanking them. But then again, I'm not a douche.

475 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:04:09am

re: #474 Cannadian Club Akbar

.....I'm not a douche.

That's not what I've been hearing

476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:09:49am

Oh, fuck. 7.1 Earthquake near Alaska. Tsunami warning.

Next? Locusts.

477 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:10:38am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, fuck. 7.1 Earthquake near Alaska. Tsunami warning.

Next? Locusts.

Can locust survive in Alaska?
/

478 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:11:48am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, fuck. 7.1 Earthquake near Alaska. Tsunami warning.

Next? Locusts.

The Pacific tsunami warning centre said it did not see a threat of a widespread destructive tsunami from the quake, which was centred south-east of Atka, Alaska.

479 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:12:24am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, fuck. 7.1 Earthquake near Alaska. Tsunami warning.

Next? Locusts.

G-D is angry at the Palins.
//

480 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:12:34am

re: #466 Alouette

Now is the time to replace the grid!

I know of a start-up in Indy that is working on a proposal. When Lilly laid off a bunch of their engineers earlier this year a lot of them ended up working on it. Who knows if anything will ever come of it.

481 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:15:04am

re: #476 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, fuck. 7.1 Earthquake near Alaska. Tsunami warning.

Next? Locusts.

I didn't realize Alaska legalized same-sex marriage.

482 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:15:34am

re: #480 RogueOne

I know of a start-up in Indy that is working on a proposal. When Lilly laid off a bunch of their engineers earlier this year a lot of them ended up working on it. Who knows if anything will ever come of it.

You know that they will keep using the antiquated, 100-year-old grid and just keep patching it up after every storm, instead of working on a parallel smart grid that can withstand multiple cascading failures (like the blackout that brought down everything from Detroit to Toronto in 2003)

483 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:17:14am

re: #482 Alouette

You know that they will keep using the antiquated, 100-year-old grid and just keep patching it up after every storm, instead of working on a parallel smart grid that can withstand multiple cascading failures (like the blackout that brought down everything from Detroit to Toronto in 2003)

Gotta Have Faith!

Youtube Video
484 S'latch  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:17:40am

I have no doubt Rick Perry would be infinitely more nauseating as President than he is as Governor of Texas. The scary fact is that because Barack Obama is so vulnerable, Rick Perry would have a chance (small) of defeating him in the general election. The only question is whether Rick Perry would sufficiently frighten and repel independents to cause them to not vote for him.

I would love to see the GOP disappoint those Republicans who view Rick Perry favorably. I wonder whether Romney would pick up most of the supporters of Palin, Paul, Giuliani, and Cain when they drop out.

485 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:17:46am

re: #482 Alouette

You know that they will keep using the antiquated, 100-year-old grid and just keep patching it up after every storm, instead of working on a parallel smart grid that can withstand multiple cascading failures (like the blackout that brought down everything from Detroit to Toronto in 2003)

Saw an episode of "Tough Fixes" were they were replacing lines with updated ones. Slow, slow, process.

486 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:18:23am

re: #485 Cannadian Club Akbar

Saw an episode of "Tough Fixes" were they were replacing lines with updated ones. Slow, slow, process.

Around here they're working on moving them all underground.

487 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:19:16am

re: #486 RogueOne

Around here they're working on moving them all underground.

I was talking about a grid line fix, not a local utility.

488 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:19:17am

re: #485 Cannadian Club Akbar

Saw an episode of "Tough Fixes" were they were replacing lines with updated ones. Slow, slow, process.

Perhaps if they put large poles into the ground and strung wires from one to the next. That would put the wires out of the reach of water.

489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:21:41am

By the way, yesterday I saw that some leaves are starting to change. God bless you, Autumn.

490 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:22:01am

re: #489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

By the way, yesterday I saw that some leaves are starting to change. God bless you, Autumn.

I hate fall. The season of death.

491 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:22:37am

re: #490 RogueOne

I hate fall. The season of death.

Good. Die motherfucker.
/

492 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:22:47am

re: #490 RogueOne

I hate fall. The season of death.

Winter sports: Drinking, suicide.
/

493 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:28:05am

I ordered a switch for my friend the other day for his generator. Cost $2. Handling $5. Freight. $1.92.

494 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:30:08am

re: #493 Cannadian Club Akbar

What do you think the Jags are going to do this year? I say they're ordinary. 8-8.

495 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:32:44am

re: #494 RogueOne

What do you think the Jags are going to do this year? I say they're ordinary. 8-8.

I'm a Bucs fan. And honestly I don't pay much attention to the Fins or Jags.

496 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:33:41am

re: #495 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'm a Bucs fan. And honestly I don't pay much attention to the Fins or Jags.

I thought you were a football fan....poseur.

497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:35:46am

re: #496 RogueOne

I thought you were a football fan...poseur.

This could be the year that Detroit becomes somebody. I'm a Dallas fan and all, but Detroit could use something good as well as NOLA needed it a few years ago.

498 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:37:12am

re: #496 RogueOne

I thought you were a football fan...poseur.

Well, I could mention that QB Josh Freeman is 6'6" 250LBS and had 25TD's vs 6 picks last year, but I won't.

499 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:38:04am

re: #497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That would be nice. My mom and brother are huge Detroit fans. One thanksgiving Mom got so pissed at the game she threw the tv down the stairs of our apartment.

500 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:41:33am

DUI death in a golf cart:

Indy woman faces charges in golf cart death
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

BLOOMINGTON, Ind. -- An Indianapolis woman is facing tougher charges in a golf cart crash following the death of one of her passengers.

The Herald-Times reports ([Link: bit.ly...] ) prosecutors recently boosted 31-year-old Keri M. Preston's charges from Class D felonies to Class C felonies that would carry stiffer prison sentences if she's convicted.

The charges were elevated after 34-year-old Travis Lyles died July 16, six days after suffering a head injury when Preston crashed a golf cart carrying three passengers as she drove down a steep hill at a southern Indiana campground.

501 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:41:38am

Evil will always triumph over Good because Good is dumb.
- Dark Helmet.

502 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:42:34am

Alrighty. I'm going for a walk while it's cool out. bbiab.

503 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:43:05am

Wow. New jobs report.

August: Zero. First time since 1945.

504 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:43:59am

Economy Gains No Jobs in August, Rate Holds at 9.1%
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

505 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:44:45am

re: #503 RogueOne

*thud*

506 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:00:10am

Cute baby picture of the day.

507 bratwurst  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:01:23am

re: #504 RogueOne

Economy Gains No Jobs in August, Rate Holds at 9.1%
[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

How can the rate hold steady without a single job created? NOT ONE PERSON entered the work force?!?

508 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:02:27am

re: #507 bratwurst

How can the rate hold steady without a single job created? NOT ONE PERSON entered the work force?!?

For every worker who entered the workforce, another one left.

509 leftynyc  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:04:43am

re: #33 jaunte

Perry's people will delay debating as long as possible.

I'm not sure appearing to be a coward is the image he's looking for.

510 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:10:26am

FTA:

Among the more disturbing numbers: the amount of people "marginally attached to the labor force" rose to 2.6 million from 2.4 million. These are workers not included in the unemployment count because they had not sought work in the past four weeks but have looked in the past year.

It also says Part-time worker number jumped from 8.4 to 8.8 million. I wonder if that's because part-time work has been added or if full-time work has been downgraded.

511 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:15:23am

re: #510 RogueOne

FTA:


It also says Part-time worker number jumped from 8.4 to 8.8 million. I wonder if that's because part-time work has been added or if full-time work has been downgraded.

Corporations have discovered that it is cheaper for them to hire two part-time workers to do the job of one full-timer, because they don't have to give benefits to part-timers.

512 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:15:49am

re: #338 austin_blue

Well put, well said. I hope that we are good, my friend?

We're good.

513 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:23:21am

re: #509 leftynyc

I'm not sure appearing to be a coward is the image he's looking for.

No, no... you've got it all wrong. He's very manly for avoiding the press. But he's courageous enough that he'll probably do a 1-hour exclusive with Sean Hannity and answer such tough questions as:

"Governor Rick Perry, you're a Great American. But some say you don't love America enough to be President. How do you respond to these vicious attacks?"

514 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:34:25am

re: #511 Alouette

Corporations have discovered that it is cheaper for them to hire two part-time workers to do the job of one full-timer, because they don't have to give benefits to part-timers.

I'm curious though if the jump in part-timers is very bad news or decent news. Looking at the rest of the report, including the downgrading of the June numbers, I'm betting it's very bad news but I'm looking for a silver lining here!

515 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:37:52am

re: #514 RogueOne

I'm curious though if the jump in part-timers is very bad news or decent news. Looking at the rest of the report, including the downgrading of the June numbers, I'm betting it's very bad news but I'm looking for a silver lining here!

There's some good news:

Private payrolls actually created 17,000 jobs, but was offset by continued shrinkage in government. The number of people unemployed remained unchanged at 14 million.

So the private sector is growing, though very slowly. But the government payrolls are being shrunk, as part of the needing cuts in government spending.

516 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:45:42am

re: #515 Dark_Falcon

There's some good news:

So the private sector is growing, though very slowly. But the government payrolls are being shrunk, as part of the needing cuts in government spending.

Q: How can we reduce unemployment and put people back to work?
A: Fire 500,000 people who work in government jobs.

Image: Cd0AJ.gif

517 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:49:26am

re: #516 negativ

Q: How can we reduce unemployment and put people back to work?
A: Fire 500,000 people who work in government jobs.

Those government employees cannot be afforded now. The money just isn't there, and trying to get it will only further mire us in debt. Government has to keep within its means right now. Short term, that will likely hamper recovery. But in the long run it will put the federal government and the various state and local governments making the cuts back on a path to solvency.

518 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:52:26am

re: #514 RogueOne

I'm curious though if the jump in part-timers is very bad news or decent news. Looking at the rest of the report, including the downgrading of the June numbers, I'm betting it's very bad news but I'm looking for a silver lining here!

Also from the article you linked to:

"Jobs creation remains weak, because temporary tax cuts, stimulus spending, large federal deficits, expensive and ineffective business regulations, and increased health care mandates and costs do not address structural problems holding back dynamic growth and jobs creation-the huge trade deficit and dysfunctional energy policies," Peter Morici, economist at the University of Maryland, said in an analysis.

That does not seem to paint a very good picture of the president's efforts, does it?

519 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:54:51am

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

The money just isn't there,

How u figure?

Government has to keep within its means right now.

Why right now as opposed to 30 years of deficits and raised debt ceilings?

Short term, that will likely hamper recovery. But in the long run it will put the federal government and the various state and local governments making the cuts back on a path to solvency.

Sorry but this is just a string of clichés.

520 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:55:47am

re: #518 Dark_Falcon

This puts some added pressure on the speech next thursday.

521 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:56:39am

re: #518 Dark_Falcon

Also from the article you linked to:


That does not seem to paint a very good picture of the president's efforts, does it?

Yes, since he is not out single-handedly helping every single unemployed American with *personal* attention in preparing resumes, finding appropriate job opportunities, lining up job interviews, and finding enough income to keep themselves and their families financially solvent. Besides, I forgot about his constitutional role in making all legislation regarding government spending... oh wait Congress is reserved that right. The House specifically if I recall.
//

522 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:56:57am

re: #516 negativ

Q: How can we reduce unemployment and put people back to work?
A: Fire 500,000 people who work in government jobs.

Hm. I could not find that 500,000 number in the report. Has anyone noticed the jobs offered by AT&T & Amazon?

I'd say we should reject the AT&T as inadequate (25,000 jobs and we can talk) and accept Amazons deal in Ca. 7000 hires would provide some revenue. And that is a two year tax break. AT&T is a way bigger deal. A near permanent near monopoly.

523 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:58:11am

Dow takes a plunge -223

524 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 6:59:02am

re: #522 Rightwingconspirator

Hm. I could not find that 500,000 number in the report. Has anyone noticed the jobs offered by AT&T & Amazon?

I'd say we should reject the AT&T as inadequate (25,000 jobs and we can talk) and accept Amazons deal in Ca. 7000 hires would provide some revenue. And that is a two year tax break. AT&T is a way bigger deal. A near permanent near monopoly.

Howz 'bout 11,000 jobs?
[Link: money.cnn.com...]

525 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:00:55am

re: #517 Dark_Falcon

Those government employees cannot be afforded now. The money just isn't there, and trying to get it will only further mire us in debt. Government has to keep within its means right now. Short term, that will likely hamper recovery. But in the long run it will put the federal government and the various state and local governments making the cuts back on a path to solvency.

But whatever you do, don't raise taxes on the gazillionaires!
//

526 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:01:00am

re: #518 Dark_Falcon

That does not seem to paint a very good picture of the president's efforts, does it?

This is an interesting experiment, since I'm old enough remember rw blather about jobs and presidents from the Pleistocene era of not even a decade ago. /

How many people saying this are conservatives?Note the date range and who was president during yet another economic "slump".

527 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:01:14am

re: #522 Rightwingconspirator

Amazon is still adding jobs in IN.

528 Daniel Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:02:41am

BBL red line time

529 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:03:51am
"Jobs creation remains weak, because temporary tax cuts, stimulus spending, large federal deficits, expensive and ineffective business regulations, and increased health care mandates and costs do not address structural problems holding back dynamic growth and jobs creation-the huge trade deficit and dysfunctional energy policies," Peter Morici, economist at the University of Maryland, said in an analysis.

I read this six times and I still have no freaking idea what he is saying. It's just a bunch of word salad.

530 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:04:23am

City Journal has done something that I don't think was wise. In its current issue, the magazine published an article by Kay S. Hymowitz called "Why the Gender Gap won't go away. Ever.". I know that many hear will disagree with such an article, but my point is not the article itself so please don't downding me before you finish reading this.

Several other sites have linked to this article and City Journal has linked back to the posts or articles on those site that made the link. That was all fine till today, when I looked and found that the latest site to link to the article was that site run by Robert Stacy McCain. True to form, but RS McCain and his followers indulge in a great deal of bilge and DERPing in the post and comments. City Journal should not be linking to that racist asshole and his ilk. It will only tarnish a good public policy magazine with the foul tar of racism.

531 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:07:22am

re: #522 Rightwingconspirator

Hm. I could not find that 500,000 number in the report.

That's because I made it up in order to take a smart-ass (or dumb-ass, if you prefer) jab at the current popular notion that the solution to all economic woes is to throw government employees out of work, as though their subsequently unpaid bills and defaulted loans somehow benefit the economy rather than fuck it up even further.

532 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:07:35am

re: #522 Rightwingconspirator

Hm. I could not find that 500,000 number in the report. Has anyone noticed the jobs offered by AT&T & Amazon?

I'd say we should reject the AT&T as inadequate (25,000 jobs and we can talk) and accept Amazons deal in Ca. 7000 hires would provide some revenue. And that is a two year tax break. AT&T is a way bigger deal. A near permanent near monopoly.

I don't think that merger should be approved, period. It's bad for the cell phone industry and bad for consumers. Having four national providers fosters innovation and effective competition in a way that having effectively two (if this merger goes through, Sprint is effectively finished) will not.

533 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:08:16am

re: #523 Killgore Trout

Dow takes a plunge -223

Meh. Did they just discover America? They really needed yet another report to realize that things suck out here? Seriously. It's almost meaningless at this point. The DOW will go up and down. They do not create jobs nor wealth for America. It is only one of many indicators that respond to the real world.

534 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:08:42am

re: #529 Alouette

I read this six times and I still have no freaking idea what he is saying. It's just a bunch of word salad.

Nothing has worked because they haven't addressed the underlying problems, the trade deficit and dysfunctional energy policies. I'm not sure I agree with his view of the underlying issues but the first part is obviously true.

535 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:09:51am

re: #530 Dark_Falcon

City Journal should not be linking to that racist asshole and his ilk. It will only tarnish a good public policy magazine with the foul tar of racism.

e_e Well write them a strong letter of protest, then.

City Journal is not a "good public policy magazine". It's the organ, yes I said it, of the Manhattan Institute. You know, the people rather infamous for The Bell Curve. So, like so many other cons, they discredited themselves regarding stupid "race", long ago.

There's no point in trying to distance them from what they are; they're quite transparent.

536 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:10:25am

re: #534 RogueOne

Nothing has worked because they haven't addressed the underlying problems, the trade deficit and dysfunctional energy policies. I'm not sure I agree with his view of the underlying issues but the first part is obviously true.

"Nothing has worked" OK, I'll accept that part as true.

"Nothing has worked because (and this part makes no sense)

537 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:12:06am

re: #531 negativ

That's because I made it up in order to take a smart-ass (or dumb-ass, if you prefer) jab at the current popular notion that the solution to all economic woes is to throw government employees out of work, as though their subsequently unpaid bills and defaulted loans somehow benefit the economy rather than fuck it up even further.

The flip-side to that argument is "the way to cut unemployment is to have the federal government hire them all". We just increased the deficit by $4T over the last few years, we have to do something. The state jobs we're seeing lost now should have been gone 2 years ago. Instead all we did was delay the inevitable.

No way we could have seen that coming I guess./

538 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:12:37am

U.S. said ready to sue big banks over mortgages

A federal U.S. agency is ready to sue more than a dozen major banks, arguing that they misrepresented the quality of mortgage securities they put together and sold in the run-up to the bursting of the housing bubble, according to a published report.

The New York Times reported Friday that the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees mortgage firms Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, is expected to file the lawsuits in federal court Friday or Tuesday. The agency is expected to seek billions in compensation.

539 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:13:15am

re: #536 Alouette

"Nothing has worked" OK, I'll accept that part as true.

"Nothing has worked because (and this part makes no sense)

They're certainly factors but I'd like to see how he's going to argue they are the main drivers because I'm not seeing it.

540 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:15:16am

re: #522 Rightwingconspirator

The Amazon-CA deal would provide an immediate revenue boost for CA, which will help the state's budget situation and ends the standoff over the affiliate nexus issue on sales tax collection.

The sales tax law change was effective immediately upon its passage/signature by the governor, which is highly unusual and put a tremendous burden on out-of-state retailers to comply with reporting and collecting requirements. It's why such laws are usually enacted with effective dates months down the road to give the tax departments and businesses time to comply. That was a huge blunder with the way the law was drafted.

This potential deal would create jobs in state and would lead to sales tax collection on internet sales in 2014 - and yet some Democrats in CA are calling this a ploy? Sorry, but that doesn't wash either. If they think CA is getting a bad deal even though Amazon is going to bring 7,000 jobs to the state, doing nothing and blocking the deal would be far worse. Right now, they're not getting the revenue and they're not getting the jobs.

This gives them both, but they have to wait for the sales tax revenue to kick in. Further negotiations would probably move up the effective date to mid 2012 or early 2013, and Amazon can still work towards a national solution in the meantime.

Amazon's hoping for the feds to step in and enact a national law on Internet transactions, but like everything else tax-policy related, there's no consensus on what should be done and the no-tax crowd isn't going to approve of tax hikes, even at the state level (although the state legislatures are looking for revenue anywhere they can find it, which is why they're looking to net transactions in the first place).

541 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:16:34am

re: #535 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

e_e Well write them a strong letter of protest, then.

City Journal is not a "good public policy magazine". It's the organ, yes I said it, of the Manhattan Institute. You know, the people rather infamous for The Bell Curve. So, like so many other cons, they discredited themselves regarding stupid "race", long ago.

There's no point in trying to distance them from what they are; they're quite transparent.

City Journal also over emphasized blame for the mortgage meltdown on CRA.

542 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:16:55am

re: #529 Alouette

I read this six times and I still have no freaking idea what he is saying. It's just a bunch of word salad.

It's confederate-been-2-college-speak for

The Feddddz are burning down Tara!!!

543 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:20:52am

re: #533 Gus 802

Correctamundo!

The DJIA is something of a mirror of the economic conditions on Main Street. Things are sucking on Main Street, and that affects the earnings/potential profits of the 30 companies that comprise the DJIA.

The S&P 500 and Russell 3000 are broader indices of how the country is faring, and they're all showing that things are hurting.

Every bit of news and rumor sends the markets spinning off on one direction or another, but the general trend has been bad - jobs aren't to be had, states are cutting back because revenues aren't where they need to be (while improving from their post-crash lows, are still far below the revenue highs pre-crash) and businesses are still leery of the rocky economic conditions (credit markets tight, sovereign debt crises in Europe and ongoing issues here, etc.)

544 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:23:16am

re: #541 BigPapa

City Journal also over emphasized blame for the mortgage meltdown on CRA.

They're infamous for their scapegoat attitude. One of the main dissemenators of socon scapegoating under the guise of economic policy. I can't think of one policy issue on which they're not full of crap.

545 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:25:42am

Oh, Grow Up

The contemptuous reaction from the House speaker, John Boehner, to the president’s request to address a joint session next Wednesday — the day Congress returns from its summer recess — was appalling. No matter how he feels about Mr. Obama personally or politically, there can be no excuse for his lack of respect for the office, to which he is second in the line of succession. And it was distressing to watch President Obama fail, once again, to stand up to an opposition that won’t brook the smallest compromise.

What made this even more appalling is that the president will be speaking on the country’s most pressing problem — the need to create jobs and stave off another destructive recession.

Mr. Obama’s request should have been routine. And The Times on Thursday quoted a White House official as saying it was: Obama aides consulted Boehner aides and then sent a formal request for a joint session on Wednesday. But Mr. Boehner said the date wasn’t convenient, a rebuff of the chief executive that the Senate historian’s office said seemed unprecedented.

Read it.

546 steve_davis  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:29:22am

re: #19 jamesfirecat

To rephrase the meaning of what I was going for *AHEM*

The GOP needs to hit rock bottom before it can start getting better.

Seeing it hit rock bottom will be good for Dark since only once the GOP bottoms out and realizes the tea party crazies alone can't get them elected will have a chance to kick them to the curb and start appealing to sane people again.

That spells it out about as clearly as I can sorry for the miscomunication.

Have you been on TalkingPointsMemo or RawStory recently? It's not the teaparty crazies I'd be worried about. The ultra-left in this country has decided that Obama is to the right of Nixon. Rick Perry could easily pull enough votes in thanks to 20-something stay-at-homes that we could have yet another Texas buffoon in the White House. Just when I think Americans can't collectively do anything more stupid than Bush, they'll do something like this.... and completely redeem themselves :-(

547 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:33:04am

re: #545 Gus 802

Oh, Grow Up

Read it.

There is also the fact that such addresses are normally scheduled at least a month in advance, in order to allow for all the logistical and security coordination that needs to be done. The president dropped a huge mess into the Speaker's hands in asking this.

As for the date, John Boener had to work to get it moved, whatever the precedent. The GOP presidential debate at the Reagan library had been scheduled for months and could not have been moved without a massive disruption. So to accede to the president's original request would essentially have been for Speaker Boener to bend over and say "Thank you, Sir! May I have another?!" It would have been to let Obama walk all over the GOP. The White House is the place that needs to grow up. They should have remembered that debate was set before sending the request.

548 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:34:09am

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

There is also the fact that such addresses are normally scheduled at least a month in advance, in order to allow for all the logistical and security coordination that needs to be done. The president dropped a huge mess into the Speaker's hands in asking this.

As for the date, John Boener had to work to get it moved, whatever the precedent. The GOP presidential debate at the Reagan library had been scheduled for months and could not have been moved without a massive disruption. So to accede to the president's original request would essentially have been for Speaker Boener to bend over and say "Thank you, Sir! May I have another?!" It would have been to let Obama walk all over the GOP. The White House is the place that needs to grow up. They should have remembered that debate was set before sending the request.

Right. Sure. Uh huh.

549 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:35:16am

BTW, everyone remembers the problems with the FAA being unable to collect tax on air travel because of a spat over curtailing the rural airport program and extending the provisions? Well, the authorization is once again set to expire and there's little movement on getting a deal done.

Oh, and the federal gas tax is set to expire at the end of the month, and that's where the real money is - $52 billion, which goes for infrastructure projects nationally (and hundreds of thousands of jobs; 128k jobs in Texas alone).

These laws need to be reauthorized, but Republicans are looking to force cuts even though these are critical spending priorities.

550 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:37:00am

re: #546 steve_davis

re: #544 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Have you been on TalkingPointsMemo or RawStory recently? It's not the teaparty crazies I'd be worried about. The ultra-left in this country has decided that Obama is to the right of Nixon. Rick Perry could easily pull enough votes in thanks to 20-something stay-at-homes that we could have yet another Texas buffoon in the White House. Just when I think Americans can't collectively do anything more stupid than Bush, they'll do something like this... and completely redeem themselves :-(

Well, tbh, I'm not "worried", so to speak, about either crowd. First, it's still really early in the season. Second, I have no doubts that the GOTP/RNC brass have their sights on riling up the leftwing hayseeds -- typically disaffected quasi-PUMAs anyway -- to try and get them to stay home. It's an old strategy of the rightwing, since they've been disallowed from legalized vote suppression.

1980:

Youtube Video

But since you asked and if you're interested, you should check out my blog's Pandering, Tea Party on the Left or Crankodoodles tags for more on what I think of the lwnj falling for this. (I do have plenty to say about it, I just don't do it much on LGF.)

551 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:39:55am

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

Tempest/teapot is all Republicans have left, because they are completely out of ideas.

552 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:41:37am

re: #551 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Tempest/teapot is all Republicans have left, because they are completely out of ideas.

...

Who the hell does Obama think he is? The president?

553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:45:20am

re: #552 Gus 802

Who the hell does Obama think he is? The president?

.

Well!

That John Boehner sure did put that arrogant uppity him back in his place!! That'll show them him a thing or two!!!

554 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:46:25am

re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

.

Hurr, hurr! Derpity, derp a do!

555 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:47:12am

re: #552 Gus 802

re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Interesting tidbit in this Politco article:

At 11:55 a.m. Wednesday, the White House tweeted the news about the joint session. “And then Rush Limbaugh beat Boehner up,” the source said.

The conservative talk show personality was in his familiar state of high dudgeon. “This is a pure campaign speech and to give it the imprimatur of a speech before a joint session of Congress, there’s no way, he doesn’t deserve that,” Limbaugh said. “Boehner’s got to say no. Now, whether he will, I have no clue.”

Was there ever any doubt? Limbaugh is the only person to whom Boehner can't say "no".

556 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:48:38am

re: #555 publicityStunted

re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Interesting tidbit in this Politco article:

Was there ever any doubt? The only person Boehner can't say "no" to is Limbaugh.

Very reminiscent of the Republican congressman from Georgia, Phil Gingrey who rightfully told Rush to stop being an armchair quarterback and then later appeared on Rush's show to "apologize" for "misspeaking." It'd be hilarious if it weren't pathetic.

557 darthstar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:49:06am

Mornin' everyone...September...and as if on schedule the fog rolled back yesterday and this morning I can see down the coast beyond the Ritz Carlton. I like sunny mornings...especially because my wife loves them.

559 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:49:46am

re: #554 Gus 802

Hurr, hurr! Derpity, derp a do!

Haha, reminds me of some classic Lena:

Derpa derpa do derpa do doo

Youtube Video
560 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:50:08am

re: #552 Gus 802

re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Very funny. Boener's not a racist, and his actions were not unreasonable. Precedent in this case is not an absolute bar on doing something different if the situation warrants. Getting Obama to reschedule is not a big matter.

561 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:51:38am

re: #558 Killgore Trout

Breitbart Blogger Attacks Obama For Installing Iconic Rockwell Painting In White House

Ruby Bridges is like Mohemmed Alta WTF? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people?

562 blueraven  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:52:19am

re: #547 Dark_Falcon

There is also the fact that such addresses are normally scheduled at least a month in advance, in order to allow for all the logistical and security coordination that needs to be done. The president dropped a huge mess into the Speaker's hands in asking this.

As for the date, John Boener had to work to get it moved, whatever the precedent. The GOP presidential debate at the Reagan library had been scheduled for months and could not have been moved without a massive disruption. So to accede to the president's original request would essentially have been for Speaker Boener to bend over and say "Thank you, Sir! May I have another?!" It would have been to let Obama walk all over the GOP. The White House is the place that needs to grow up. They should have remembered that debate was set before sending the request.

And the GOP should stop worrying about what Rush Limbaugh will say about them. They are playing a dangerous game here. The economic situation is dire, and a big part of that is their brinksmanship over the debt ceiling. Not only did it lead to our credit downgrade, but a downgrade in confidence that our government can solve problems.

563 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:53:28am

re: #561 HappyWarrior

Ruby Bridges is like Mohemmed Alta WTF? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people?

Conservatives just can't seem to help themselves. Their instincts are turning them into a White Rights movement.

564 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:54:08am

They're like a bunch of school kids when it comes to Limbaugh. You don't want to get on Rush the bully's bad side. Why, he may say you're not a real conservative which in right wing circles is like being called gay in Middle School. Seriously they need to grow a pair and tell that asshole to shove it but they won't because they're too afraid of him and his influence.

565 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:54:47am

re: #560 Dark_Falcon

re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Very funny. Boener's not a racist,

No one has given Bohener that coveted badge of honor, and that was a parody of Rush Limbaugh followers, anyway. So just relax.

and his actions were not unreasonable. Precedent in this case is not an absolute bar on doing something different if the situation warrants. Getting Obama to reschedule is not a big matter.

Tempest/teapot. By this time next week no one will remember this, anyway.

566 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:56:04am

re: #558 Killgore Trout

Breitbart Blogger Attacks Obama For Installing Iconic Rockwell Painting In White House

The Derpularity Is Near.

567 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:56:42am

re: #558 Killgore Trout

Breitbart Blogger Attacks Obama For Installing Iconic Rockwell Painting In White House

That is some serious fucked-up shit. Did you page it?

568 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:56:46am

re: #563 Killgore Trout

Conservatives just can't seem to help themselves. Their instincts are turning them into a White Rights movement.

It's really pathetic. Sometimes you think you've seen it all and then this stuff happens. Of course, I was shocked at the amount of badmouthing Thurgood Marshall I saw at Elena Kagan's confirmation hearing. I mean really one of the better justices of the past 50 years and the lawyer who helped end legal segreggation public schools being made out to be some anti American far leftist.

569 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:56:55am

re: #558 Killgore Trout

Breitbart Blogger Attacks Obama For Installing Iconic Rockwell Painting In White House

DeAngelis's objections are indeed insanely paranoid. She's not "asking questions" about Obama, she has already made up her mind.

570 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 7:58:06am

re: #563 Killgore Trout

Conservatives just can't seem to help themselves. Their instincts are turning them into a White Rights movement.

On some other forum I called a bigot a bigot. One minion complained that 'people who cry racism are the real racists.' I responded by asking for an explanation of that statement. Still waiting.

571 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:01:33am

re: #561 HappyWarrior

Ruby Bridges is like Mohemmed Alta WTF? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with these people?

Hmph, give them time. Eventually, these dumb bigots will have mopped themselves into such a tight corner that they'll have to say they believe outright nonwhites being able to sit whereever the hell we want on a bus is terrorism.

They already spent two generations calling it communism, socialism, race-mixing, big gobbermint overreach, failed social engineering (lol as if Jim Crow wasn't among the biggest social engineering failure in the history of social engineering failures) blah blah.

They're just getting warmed up. I expect them to go full-blown Breivik Manifesto, definitely by Super Tuesday 2012.

572 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:02:19am

Does DeAngelis realize that Norman Rockwell was a white man? Sheesh when are these assholes going to get that anything that points out that whites did discriminate against blacks racially is not an attack on all whites? I am not offended at all by the painting or pointing out the past. By the way, the National Gallery had an excellent Rockwell exhibit that I went to last winter with my parents and kid brother. Loved it.
Image: 009_575-013norman-rockwell-going-and-coming-posters.jpg
This is my favorite Rockwell painting by the way. Apolitical unlike the one the president chose but the father in it really reminds me of my Dad right down to the floppy hat.

573 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:02:32am

re: #567 Alouette

That is some serious fucked-up shit. Did you page it?

Nope, I have my hands full this morning preparing for a phone call in a couple hours.

574 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:02:49am

Bad day for the stock market, bad day for jobs numbers...

Wall Street tumbles after grim August jobs report

U.S. stock prices plunged Friday after the government said the economy added no net jobs last month and the unemployment rate was unchanged at 9.1 percent.

The Dow Jones industrial average was lately down over 200 points.
The August jobs report was the weakest in almost a year. It reflects fears that the economy might slip back into recession.

Zero jobs in August? This news sucks.

575 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:02:49am

Columnist: Registering Poor To Vote 'Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals'

Conservative columnist Matthew Vadum is just going to come right out and say it: registering the poor to vote is un-American and "like handing out burglary tools to criminals."

"It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country -- which is precisely why Barack Obama zealously supports registering welfare recipients to vote," Vadum, the author of a book published by World Net Daily that attacks the now-defunct community organizing group ACORN, writes in a column for the American Thinker.

576 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:05:16am

re: #558 Killgore Trout

Oh FFS.

It's an iconic piece of American art and one that depicts an ugly chapter in history and how the federal government moved to correct generations of wrong-doing against African Americans. Rockwell captured that imagery perfectly, and now Breitbart's hacks are complaining that this isn't a proper piece of art to grace the WH is just ridiculous. In fact, it shows that the power of the federal government to end segregation - a good thing. But that's antithetical to the states-rights crowd who still can't get over the fact that there's a black guy in the Oval Office.

Then, to compare it to Mohammad Atta is the height of stupidity.

577 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:05:17am

re: #575 JasonA

Columnist: Registering Poor To Vote 'Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals'

This is a continued attack by right wing pundits on those who have different voting patterns than they do. They do it to students too because we have the nerve to lean left as a group so some of them like Coulter have suggested disenfranchising 18-21 year olds.

578 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:05:33am

re: #575 JasonA

Columnist: Registering Poor To Vote 'Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals'

God it's so depressing. Why should the poor have a say in how society is run?

579 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:06:13am

Execution Chronicles - The unique story of Mark Stroman and Rais Bhuiyan.

This is linked to Kickstarter, a funding site for creative projects. The film maker met his goal to finish the film and I'm very interested to see it. If I get some more work coming in I may flip him a $20 or $50 to get the DVD.

580 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:07:40am

re: #560 Dark_Falcon

re: #553 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Very funny. Boener's not a racist,

He must feel very lonely in his political party of choice then.

581 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:07:47am

re: #564 HappyWarrior

They're like a bunch of school kids when it comes to Limbaugh. You don't want to get on Rush the bully's bad side. Why, he may say you're not a real conservative which in right wing circles is like being called gay in Middle School. Seriously they need to grow a pair and tell that asshole to shove it but they won't because they're too afraid of him and his influence.

Bunch of conformists, who have found a national mouthpiece to air their endless gripes. I never like seeing people exploited by demagogues, not even the people who think I'm supposed to be their dhimmi.

582 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:10:00am

re: #575 JasonA

Columnist: Registering Poor To Vote 'Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals'

Damn. What a piece of shit scum bag. Are they for real? This asshole writes for the American Spectator.

What racism? WTF.

583 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:11:16am

re: #576 lawhawk

In fact, it shows that the power of the federal government to end segregation - a good thing. But that's antithetical to the states-rights crowd who still can't get over the fact that there's a black guy in the Oval Office.

They never got over the SCOTUS reversing itself on Jim Crow to begin with.

Them, two generations ago:

[Link: www.citizenscouncils.com...]

They didn't even bother to get a new design department for those dumb pickets of theirs. 9_9

584 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:12:00am

re: #569 Dark_Falcon

DeAngelis's objections are indeed insanely paranoid. She's not "asking questions" about Obama, she has already made up her mind.

Yep, she's a conservative.

585 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:12:13am

8 in 10 think we're in a recession...

If enough people think that this is the case, we might as well have a self-fulfilling prophesy. The drumbeat of bad economic news overwhelms good news - such as that car sales were up (but even car sales volume doesn't quite tell you about the health of the auto industry b/c it is a separate metric from profits per vehicle, a true measure of health - if automakers keep ramping up incentives, then they're losing money in the process to just clear cars off the lot for the new model year).

586 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:12:29am

We're going to hear a pundit or politician call for the return of poll taxes or literacy tests one of these days if we haven't yet.

587 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:12:32am

re: #572 HappyWarrior

Apolitical unlike the one the president chose but the father in it really reminds me of my Dad right down to the floppy hat.

It may be a political painting, but it is primarily a historical painting. That the first black president had it hung in the White House seems immensely just.

588 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:13:46am

re: #587 BigPapa

It may be a political painting, but it is primarily a historical painting. That the first black president had it hung in the White House seems immensely just.

Yep no doubt about it. I love Rockwell's work. Gives a lot of adage to the old saying about pictures meaning a thousand words.

589 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:14:51am

re: #582 Gus 802

Damn. What a piece of shit scum bag. Are they for real? This asshole writes for the American Spectator.

What racism? WTF.

Why stop there? You can only vote if you own a business. You can only vote if you own property.

You can only vote if you aren't a fucktard. But that means Mr Vadum al Teahadi would not be able to vote.

590 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:14:54am

re: #572 HappyWarrior

Does DeAngelis realize that Norman Rockwell was a white man?

n*****-lover!!!!

Norman Rockwell *spits* ... Why can't we have pictures of George Lincoln Rockwell in our White House!!!!

Dumb confederates.

591 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:16:11am

Folks. The evidence is in.

592 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:17:45am

re: #586 HappyWarrior

We're going to hear a pundit or politician call for the return of poll taxes or literacy tests one of these days if we haven't yet.

The GOTP already knows they cannot win anything without massive suppression and outright cheating, not with this crop of whackodoodles running for president. They are just out of ideas.

593 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:19:12am

re: #591 Gus 802

Folks. The evidence is in.

4 out of 5 dentist really do recommend Trident?
///

594 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:19:42am

re: #583 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They never got over the SCOTUS reversing itself on Jim Crow to begin with.

Them, two generations ago:

[Link: www.citizenscouncils.com...]

They didn't even bother to get a new design department for those dumb pickets of theirs. 9_9

That website is chilling. I recognize so many arguments Fox/Limbaugh/etc use now.

Speaking of which, a few weeks ago, you posted a picture of an old newspaper article that compared the civil rights movement to "Hitler's Big Lie" - do you still have that?

595 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:19:47am

It has gone beyond the states rights strategy. This is the new Southern Strategy. Perhaps even bolder than those we saw during the days of Lee Atwater. However, much of it remains the same:

You start out in 1954 by saying, "n*****, n*****, n*****." By 1968 you can't say "n*****" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "n*****, n*****.

596 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:19:55am

re: #589 BigPapa

Why stop there? You can only vote if you own a business. You can only vote if you own property.

You can only vote if you aren't a fucktard. But that means Mr Vadum al Teahadi would not be able to vote.

Judson Philips (Tea Party Nation screech machine) has already tried to float this idea. If so many cons weren't so manipulatable on social issues, I'd have just ignored him. But, alas.

597 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:20:17am

I love how some of my fellow white Americans can't deal with being reminded that our ancestors did some really bad things.

598 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:21:28am

re: #584 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yep, she's a conservative.

I'm a conservative, and I'm not paranoid like that. Both my father and my best friend are conservative and they're not paranoid like that. Ramesh Ponneu and Jonah Goldberg of National Review are conservatives, and they don't subscribe to that kind of racial paranoia either.

599 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:22:57am

I have an idea for the Republican Party. Since they're having a hard time getting permission from rock stars to play their songs during the campaign season I suggest they just go right ahead an play Johnny Rebel songs. It's a perfect fit.

600 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:23:13am

re: #598 Dark_Falcon

I'm a conservative, and I'm not paranoid like that. Both my father and my best friend are conservative and they're not paranoid like that. Ramesh Ponneu and Jonah Goldberg of National Review are conservatives, and they don't subscribe to that kind of racial paranoia either.

Johan Goldberg is an asshole and, yes, a racist.

[Link: www.groupnewsblog.net...]

It's time to start re-evaluating your conservative icons, DF.

601 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:23:19am

re: #598 Dark_Falcon

I'm a conservative, and I'm not paranoid like that. Both my father and my best friend are conservative and they're not paranoid like that. Ramesh Ponneu and Jonah Goldberg of National Review are conservatives, and they don't subscribe to that kind of racial paranoia either.

Much easier to paint with a broad brush!

602 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:25:48am

re: #594 publicityStunted

That website is chilling. I recognize so many arguments Fox/Limbaugh/etc use now.

Speaking of which, a few weeks ago, you posted a picture of an old newspaper article that compared the civil rights movement to "Hitler's Big Lie" - do you still have that?

I do - that was also from an issue of The Citizens Council - March 1956

Image: Picture2-3.png

This is the same group defended -- totally out of the blue -- by Haley Barbour (R - Boss Hogg) a few months back.

In case no one is familiar, they have been going by the name Council of Conservative Citizens for the past 20 years or so. Their website is no picnic at the lake either, cofcc.org - link broken on purpose so LGF doesn't show up in their referrers.

603 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:26:33am

re: #600 iossarian

Johan Goldberg is an asshole and, yes, a racist.

[Link: www.groupnewsblog.net...]

It's time to start re-evaluating your conservative icons, DF.

Or more recently:

Rich: I liked your column today. But you only struck a glancing blow at my biggest peeve about the whole anti-science thing: Why does the Left get to pick which issues are the benchmarks for “science”? Why can’t the measure of being pro-science be the question of heritability of intelligence?

A dog whistle if there ever was one. The old "Bell Curve" strategy.

604 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:27:54am

re: #603 Gus 802

Or more recently:

A dog whistle if there ever was one. The old "Bell Curve" strategy.

So now we're down to Ramesh Ponnuru, who opposes affirmative action.

Because, you know, Asian Americans are doing just fine without it.

605 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:29:00am

re: #600 iossarian

Johan Goldberg is an asshole and, yes, a racist.

[Link: www.groupnewsblog.net...]

It's time to start re-evaluating your conservative icons, DF.

He's also the same intellectually dishonest guy who likes to blame the left for the Nazis even though the German left by and large united against Hitler. I mean if German leftists are voted for Paul von Hindenberg to prevent Hitler from getting elected chancellor, what does that tell you about Hitler? And it's true that the Nazis had members that took the "socialist" part of national socialism seriously but they mostly were either purged or conformed to the party.

606 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:29:44am

re: #604 iossarian

So now we're down to Ramesh Ponnuru, who opposes affirmative action.

Because, you know, Asian Americans are doing just fine without it.

Yep. And don't forget that the racist right wingers also use affirmative action as way to insult the president. That he got to where he is ONLY because of affirmative action. Yet another big dog whistle. It's not even a dog whistle at this point. It's a damn bullhorn.

607 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:30:53am

re: #602 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I do - that was also from an issue of The Citizens Council - March 1956

Image: Picture2-3.png

This is the same group defended -- totally out of the blue -- by Haley Barbour (R - Boss Hogg) a few months back.

Thank you! I was naive enough to believe this whole "librul facism libruls hitler durr hurr" was something relatively new, courtesy of the aforementioned doughy pantload Jonah Goldberg. Amazing to see how old the sleazy rightwing propaganda tactics really are - Godwin's Law, being broken since 1956 at least!

608 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:31:52am

re: #598 Dark_Falcon

I'm a conservative, and I'm not paranoid like that. Both my father and my best friend are conservative and they're not paranoid like that. Ramesh Ponneu and Jonah Goldberg of National Review are conservatives, and they don't subscribe to that kind of racial paranoia either.

9_9 I didn't say anything about you or those other random conservative names you're dropping..

And yet, just a couple days ago you were trying to remove the foot from your mouth after expressing exactly that: irrational racial paranoia. So, I could have, if I'd wanted to. But the post had nothing to do with you.

Fact: she is a conservative. She's not a liberal, a progressive, a blathertarian, an anarchist, a communist, she is a conservative with conservative fans on a conservative site. This is a simple fact.

609 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:32:52am

re: #606 Gus 802

Yep. And don't forget that the racist right wingers also use affirmative action as way to insult the president. That he got to where he is ONLY because of affirmative action. Yet another big dog whistle. It's not even a dog whistle at this point. It's a damn bullhorn.

You only need to tune in to Rush on any given day to hear that. Or better yet, don't...

610 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:34:17am

Yesterday's example from Hot Air:

Consider their fondness for parading lists of signatories from the science community who swear on a stack of Bibles (whoops! Make that a copy of Darwin) that, for example, humans have the capacity to effect major planetary change. If a list of signatories is the measure of an argument’s validity, then why do Democrats choose to ignore this list of names appended to a statement that posits 25 general conclusions about nature of human intellgience, one of which follows?

The bell curve for whites is centered roughly around IQ 100; the bell curve for American blacks roughly around 85; and those for different subgroups of Hispanics roughly midway between those for whites and blacks. The evidence is less definitive for exactly where above IQ 100 the bell curves for Jews and Asians are centered.

These findings are troublesome for a political party that would choose to coddle one of its most loyal voter blocs rather than expose them to the truth. They are also a tough pill to swallow for blacks, who have been reassured repeatedly that their below-average test scores are the product of years of systematic oppression or cultural bias in the test, not some inborn limitation.

Howard Portnay said this over at Hot Air. The owner of Hot Air is Salem Communications. We go over to Rick Perry assembles top California donors for campaign and we find:

They include: Edward Atsinger, chief executive of Salem Communications a Christian-oriented broadcasting company; Jay Hoffman, a Reagan administration veteran and international consultant...

611 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:34:39am

So our two "non-racist" conservatives turn out to be:

A) a racist after all

B) someone who opposes any government effort to redress the massive imbalance between whites and non-whites in the US

In the case of B, he can't be a racist, because he happens to belong to that part of the non-white population that hasn't historically been ground into the dirt!

612 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:34:40am

re: #603 Gus 802

Or more recently:

A dog whistle if there ever was one. The old "Bell Curve" strategy.

See also...

Transparent as the day is long.

613 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:35:20am

And of course the previous owner of Hot Air was Michelle Malkin who still wants to open up internment concentration camps for Muslims in America.

614 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:36:56am

re: #613 Gus 802

And of course the previous owner of Hot Air was Michelle Malkin who still wants to open up internment concentration camps for Muslims in America.

Wasn't one of her big things when she said FDR was justified for interning the Japanese Americans? I mean really if there was a point against FDR's record, that was it.

615 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:37:43am

I remember when Mehlman was RNC Chair, he did an interview with someone and said that the Southern Strategy was a wrong thing to have done. Limbaugh went ballistic on him as I recall it.

616 Lidane  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:38:34am

re: #603 Gus 802

Or more recently:

A dog whistle if there ever was one. The old "Bell Curve" strategy.

He actually used the racist bullshit about intelligence being inherited. WTF.

I knew the Doughy Pantload was an intellectual lightweight and an asshole, especially for the whole "Nazis were liberals" idiocy, but geez. Throwing in racism as well?

617 jaunte  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:39:54am

re: #610 Gus 802

Consider their fondness for parading lists of signatories from the science community who swear on a stack of Bibles (whoops! Make that a copy of Darwin) that, for example, humans have the capacity to effect major planetary change.

Piling one dumbness on top of another.

618 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:40:47am

I have to get going. I'm trying to get my return to work coordinated. Right now it looks like I'll finally be able to return to work on Tuesday. But that isn't certain, given the need to work out some matters.

I'll know more this afternoon. Wish me luck.

619 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:40:57am

re: #617 jaunte

Piling one dumbness on top of another.

The right wing stupidity is snowballing at this point. It's growth is exponential.

620 Lidane  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:41:44am

re: #615 HappyWarrior

I remember when Mehlman was RNC Chair, he did an interview with someone and said that the Southern Strategy was a wrong thing to have done. Limbaugh went ballistic on him as I recall it.

Of course Limbaugh went ballistic. He knows the current GOP in the south.

The racist, Dixiecrat South of the Jim Crow era that openly and sometimes violently opposed the civil rights movement = the modern GOP base in the South. They're the exact same people. The Southern Strategy is what it takes to keep those people voting for anyone with an (R) after their name.

621 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:43:01am

re: #614 HappyWarrior

Wasn't one of her big things when she said FDR was justified for interning the Japanese Americans? I mean really if there was a point against FDR's record, that was it.

And irony of ironies, Chief Justice Earl Warren, too, in his stint as AG of California.

The JBS was ready to lynch him in the 60s because of the Brown vs Board of Education reversal of federally-sanctioned Jim Crow.

(Back to the conversation about Ruby Bridges. There is one good thing coming from this episode...at least now more than just Us™ know that name, now, even as she's now again been made into a target of irrational conservative race rage. It should have been a household one for the past 60 years.)

622 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:45:05am

Good Morning all!

OCrap --when do you sleep?

623 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:45:31am

The point is that the Left considers itself the undisputed champion of “science,” but there are scads of issues where they take un-scientific points of view.

Nice try.

Don't believe in the Bell Curve? You're unscientific. But all that evolution stuff, tis unimportant.

624 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:46:45am

re: #618 Dark_Falcon

I have to get going. I'm trying to get my return to work coordinated. Right now it looks like I'll finally be able to return to work on Tuesday. But that isn't certain, given the need to work out some matters.

I'll know more this afternoon. Wish me luck.

Luck!

625 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:48:15am

re: #621 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

And irony of ironies, Chief Justice Earl Warren, too, in his stint as AG of California.

The JBS was ready to lynch him in the 60s because of the Brown vs Board of Education reversal of federally-sanctioned Jim Crow.

(Back to the conversation about Ruby Bridges. There is one good thing coming from this episode...at least now more than just Us™ know that name, now, even as she's now again been made into a target of irrational conservative race rage. It should have been a household one for the past 60 years.)

John Birch Society at Texas GOP Convention

626 jaunte  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:48:29am

re: #623 BigPapa

No evolutionist has observed ("vertical") evolution, therefore it's a religion!"

627 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:48:57am

re: #610 Gus 802

Yesterday's example from Hot Air:

"...why do Democrats choose to ignore this list of names appended to a statement that posits 25 general conclusions about nature of human intellgience, one of which follows?"

Nothing like pontificating on human intelligence while demonstrating you don't have enough to figure out how to use a spellchecker 9_9

628 leftynyc  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:49:09am

re: #137 Bobibutu

With all the poo pooing over Irene - my associates in Connecticut and NY just got power back today and many are still without - I hope Obama stays out in front on these.

My sister (Westchester County, NY) and a co-worker (Westport, CT) are still without power.

629 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:50:07am

re: #566 BigPapa

The Derpularity Is Near.

Insert Blazing Saddles reference.

630 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:50:50am

re: #629 negativ

Insert Blazing Saddles reference.

A flatulence reference?

I don't know how to do that on the internet.

631 leftynyc  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:52:15am

re: #147 Gus 802

Bleh. Marco Rubio is another wingnut theocon. Florida can keep him.


Seriously?

They can teach whatever nonsense they wish in a private school When it comes to my tax dollars, I want hard science not young earth fantasy.

632 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:52:31am

re: #598 Dark_Falcon

I'm a conservative, and I'm not paranoid like that. Both my father and my best friend are conservative and they're not paranoid like that. Ramesh Ponneu and Jonah Goldberg of National Review are conservatives, and they don't subscribe to that kind of racial paranoia either.

DF, the term "conservative" as you and I know it, no longer applies. We are Classical Liberals if there is a term that applies.

Sane "conservatives", IMHO, have to accept the fact that the word no longer applies to them and just start saying "I am a moderate".

633 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:52:37am

re: #611 iossarian

In the case of B, he can't be a racist, because he happens to belong to that part of the non-white population that hasn't historically been ground into the dirt!

And hey let's just be frank. Ponnuru's family likely would never have even been allowed in from the 20s-60s, thanks to the Immigration Act of 1924. Leading up to it, a guy named Bhagat Singh Thind had already tried to play the "but I'm from India so I'm an Aryan" card, but the SCOTUS smacked that idea right down.

So, if they weren't ground into the dirt it was because at one point, they weren't even allowed to disembark on shore.

634 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:53:10am

re: #575 JasonA

Columnist: Registering Poor To Vote 'Like Handing Out Burglary Tools To Criminals'

Thank you for giving me something more outrageous than DeAngelis to be outraged over.

Shit.

635 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:53:25am

Found it. There was some Lizard here, ernie1241, that argued tooth and nail claiming that the John Birch Society was/is not a racist organization. See here:

The John Birch Society roots of Glenn Beck's obsession with George Soros

636 Lidane  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:54:31am

re: #632 ggt

Sane "conservatives", IMHO, have to accept the fact that the word no longer applies to them and just start saying "I am a moderate".

Seriously. The modern "conservative" movement has nothing in common with actual conservatism.

637 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:55:03am

re: #603 Gus 802

Or more recently:

A dog whistle if there ever was one. The old "Bell Curve" strategy.

Wingnuts love to point out how the AGW debate has been "politicized" (though they politicize it in the first place). Yet they're unwilling to extend this to some other areas. From what I've seen, the IQ/race debate is one of the truly politicized/ideologized debates. You have some researchers arguing for a larger degree of genetic determinism in explaining the IQ gap, and when we look at the political history of those folks (like Rushton and Lynn), we go "Stop right there, could these folks have an agenda?". On the other hand, it is also clear that these folks are politically disadvantaged, since their research leads to results that are hard to swallow politically, if they were true.

On the other hand, it would be also naive to argue that their opponents have no agenda or biases of their own. Stephen Jay Gould has been caught misinterpreting studies in his Mismeasure of Man, and folks like Lewontin and Kamin are pretty vocal about their left-wing politics.

And all of these folks, from "far right" to "far left", and of course "the golden middle", publish in peer reviewed journals. There seems to be a genuine scientific(-cum-political) controversy here, so standing for one side in this "debate" hardly qualifies one as pro- or anti-science.

638 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:55:18am

re: #618 Dark_Falcon

I have to get going. I'm trying to get my return to work coordinated. Right now it looks like I'll finally be able to return to work on Tuesday. But that isn't certain, given the need to work out some matters.

I'll know more this afternoon. Wish me luck.

Good luck!

639 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:55:31am

re: #593 Cannadian Club Akbar

4 out of 5 dentist really do recommend Trident?
///

My dentist is actually that 1 out of 5. According to him (appropriately named "Dr. Spikes", fer realz) any toothpaste is just as good as any other kind, with the caveat that you probably shouldn't buy it if it's made in China.

640 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:55:55am

re: #639 negativ

My dentist is actually that 1 out of 5. According to him (appropriately named "Dr. Spikes", fer realz) any toothpaste is just as good as any other kind, with the caveat that you probably shouldn't buy it if it's made in China.

It it only works if you actually use it.

641 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:56:37am

Really, titling that post 'the anti science smear' is pretty childish. It's not a smear to say the GOP is anti science, it's pretty much a fact. It's akin to saying 'those who cry about racism are the real racists.'

Teenage level antagonism with a sheen of intellectualism. If you smear the GOP by saying they are anti science.... you smeared them. You bad person, you smearer you. Plus, 'the left' is just as anti sciency, see?

642 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:56:42am

re: #639 negativ

My dentist is actually that 1 out of 5. According to him (appropriately named "Dr. Spikes", fer realz) any toothpaste is just as good as any other kind, with the caveat that you probably shouldn't buy it if it's made in China.

Does your dentist hate the Mom who discovered the teeth whitening trick?
//

643 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:57:30am

re: #642 Alouette

Does your dentist hate the Mom who discovered the teeth whitening trick?
//

Was that you, Alouette?

644 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:57:36am

Conservative strategy at its finest.

1) Identify exploitable people (in this case, black slaves rounded up in Africa)
2) Exploit them (for several generations)
3) Violently oppose any attempts to prevent said exploitation
4) When said exploitation is finally outlawed, use resulting legacy of disadvantage to advance pseudo-scientific support for heinous economic/social policies

Have I missed anything?

645 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:58:10am

re: #644 iossarian

Conservative strategy at its finest.

1) Identify exploitable people (in this case, black slaves rounded up in Africa)
2) Exploit them (for several generations)
3) Violently oppose any attempts to prevent said exploitation
4) When said exploitation is finally outlawed, use resulting legacy of disadvantage to advance pseudo-scientific support for heinous economic/social policies

Have I missed anything?

5) Dig heels in at any mention of change, on principle.

646 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:58:15am

re: #625 Gus 802

Lol hooray for access to stock photos, and Photoshop!

Now people know why I NEVER let my picture taken by people I don't trust, with my knowledge. Who knows what kind of propaganda game it ends up being some pawn in (yes, it's happened) LOL

647 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:58:30am

re: #644 iossarian

Conservative strategy at its finest.

1) Identify exploitable people (in this case, black slaves rounded up in Africa)
2) Exploit them (for several generations)
3) Violently oppose any attempts to prevent said exploitation
4) When said exploitation is finally outlawed, use resulting legacy of disadvantage to advance pseudo-scientific support for heinous economic/social policies

Have I missed anything?

5) Accuse people trying to end said exploitation of being the real racists/exploiters.

648 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:58:41am

re: #645 ggt

5) Dig heels in at any mention of change, on principle.

6.) Claim any mention of the past exploitation is an attack on you.

649 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 8:59:46am

re: #643 ggt

Was that you, Alouette?

I hate that Mom too.

(actually the "Mom" doesn't even exist. All these "trick" ads are scams)

650 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:00:58am

re: #649 Alouette

I hate that Mom too.

(actually the "Mom" doesn't even exist. All these "trick" ads are scams)

It's gotten to the point that if you have anything BUT perfect teeth, you might as well have fleas.

651 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:01:27am

BBLIAT

(if at all)

652 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:02:03am

re: #648 HappyWarrior

6.) Claim any mention of the past exploitation is an attack on you.

7) Act like you're the victim when the descendents discuss it from their own point of view, without consulting you for guidance, first.

653 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:02:40am

re: #652 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

7) Act like you're the victim when the descendents discuss it from their own point of view, without consulting you for guidance, first.

Forced change is perceived as suppression.

654 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:03:12am

re: #646 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol hooray for access to stock photos, and Photoshop!

Now people know why I NEVER let my picture taken by people I don't trust, with my knowledge. Who knows what kind of propaganda game it ends up being some pawn in (yes, it's happened) LOL

Just in case you missed it. Charles debated right wing tool Conn Carroll and the topic of the JBS being invited to CPAC came up. Right on schedule Carroll defends (or blows off) the re-inclusion of the JBS into mainstream conservatism.

655 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:04:00am

re: #654 Gus 802

Just in case you missed it. Charles debated right wing tool Conn Carroll and the topic of the JBS being invited to CPAC came up. Right on schedule Carroll defends (or blows off) the re-inclusion of the JBS into mainstream conservatism.

I remember all that.

656 Kronocide  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:04:36am

I think it's deplorable that our Coloured only count as 3/5ths of a vote. Our Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves. It should be 4/5ths.

657 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:04:56am

re: #650 ggt

It's gotten to the point that if you have anything BUT perfect teeth, you might as well have fleas.

First it was the "white teeth" ads spammed everywhere, then last year it was the "tiny belly trick" and now the scammers are spamming "Mom's wrinkle trick." The exact same wording in all the ads! All offshore scams of course.

You can block them in Firefox but there is no way to get rid of them in IE.

658 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:05:01am

re: #653 ggt

Forced change is perceived as supression.

That's always the perception, when the dhimmis refuse to be dhimmis anymore.

659 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:05:46am

re: #635 Gus 802

Found it. There was some Lizard here, ernie1241, that argued tooth and nail claiming that the John Birch Society was/is not a racist organization. See here:

The John Birch Society roots of Glenn Beck's obsession with George Soros

What a bizarre thread that was. And what a bizarre character Ernie is.

Nobody is more aware of the arguments used for describing the JBS as "racist" than I am. I reject those arguments for the same reason I reject the Birch Society's description or innuendos about prominent Americans whom they libel as Communist or Communist sympathizer or Communist agent or Communist dupe.

It is certainly accurate to state that the official JBS position about our civil rights movement and its leaders is often factually false. It is also accurate to state that the JBS maliciously libeled many good, decent, and patriotic Americans who fought segregation and Jim Crow. I devote considerable space in chapter 6 of my JBS report (link below) to discussing this matter.

JBS ON CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT

I know how easy it is for us to make derogatory assumptions about the motives of our political opponents and to present them in the worst possible light. But it simply is not true that the JBS, as an organization, is "racist".

660 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:09:13am

What a perfect statement. (from the link at the Pages)

But in reality, Martin Luther King made the very point Khalidi is so adamantly opposed to. He wrote

"Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel, and never mind saying it, as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality."

661 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:09:42am

re: #659 wrenchwench

I remember that. Seemed he was thinking of himself as a stickler for accuracy (NTTIAWWT), and a nuanced researcher. He had half of a point in that JBS was "formally" non-racist. His point would be better made if he qualified it each time with "it still turned out to be a breeding ground for racists and neo-Nazis".

662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:09:44am

JBS = Lol in aeternum

Dumb confederates.

663 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:12:01am

re: #657 Alouette

First it was the "white teeth" ads spammed everywhere, then last year it was the "tiny belly trick" and now the scammers are spamming "Mom's wrinkle trick." The exact same wording in all the ads! All offshore scams of course.

You can block them in Firefox but there is no way to get rid of them in IE.

HALITOSIS!

The Horror.

LOL

664 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:13:10am

re: #657 Alouette

First it was the "white teeth" ads spammed everywhere, then last year it was the "tiny belly trick" and now the scammers are spamming "Mom's wrinkle trick." The exact same wording in all the ads! All offshore scams of course.

You can block them in Firefox but there is no way to get rid of them in IE.

How do you block them on Firefox?

665 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:14:46am

re: #663 ggt

HALITOSIS!

The Horror.

LOL

First World Problems.

666 Someone Please Beam Me Up!  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:14:58am

Well, you learn something every day.... Did you know Rick Perry is a closet liberal?

[Link: blogs.berkeley.edu...]

667 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:15:01am

re: #664 ggt

How do you block them on Firefox?

Adblock Plus.

668 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:16:10am

re: #661 Sergey Romanov

I remember that. Seemed he was thinking of himself as a stickler for accuracy (NTTIAWWT), and a nuanced researcher. He had half of a point in that JBS was "formally" non-racist. His point would be better made if he qualified it each time with "it still turned out to be a breeding ground for racists and neo-Nazis".

He's still at it.

MY RESEARCH - rev. 08/19/11

Keeps him off the streets, I guess.

669 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:16:33am

re: #665 Alouette

First World Problems.

Interesting. My wife mentioned that phrase last night, the first time I'd ever heard it.

Where'd it come from? I'm always kinda fascinated when a meme pops up like that.

670 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:16:34am

re: #662 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

JBS = Lol in aeternum

Dumb confederates.

Yep. The JBS was hiding their racism behind the cloak of anti-Communism. Their arguments were that the civil rights movements was a Communist conspiracy. Many of their members worked hand in hand with the White Citizens Councils throughout the south in opposing civil rights.

671 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:18:30am

re: #669 makeitstop

Interesting. My wife mentioned that phrase last night, the first time I'd ever heard it.

Where'd it come from? I'm always kinda fascinated when a meme pops up like that.

First World Problems

672 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:19:13am

Image: birchers.jpg

673 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:19:31am

re: #654 Gus 802

Just in case you missed it. Charles debated right wing tool Conn Carroll and the topic of the JBS being invited to CPAC came up. Right on schedule Carroll defends (or blows off) the re-inclusion of the JBS into mainstream conservatism.

To be honest, I don't really see what all the hubbub about them and CPAC is.

They were/are predecessors of Alex Jones and paleoconservatism, but it's the same personnel - Luap Nor, Buchanan, Taki, The American Conservative, antiwar.com, lewrockwell, all those knuckle-draggers.

There are enough cons who agree with the old, race-baiting, commie-baiting JBS to have justified it; in fact I'm kind of surprised they're no longer sponsors.

674 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:19:45am

re: #671 Alouette

First World Problems

Hm. Shows you how much I pay attention. :)

675 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:20:09am

re: #672 Gus 802

Image: birchers.jpg

Some people here would respond favorably to at least one of the slogans. ;)

676 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:20:36am

re: #674 makeitstop

Hm. Shows you how much I pay attention. :)

Alouette is always on the cutting-edge.

677 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:21:29am

re: #673 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

To be honest, I don't really see what all the hubbub about them and CPAC is.

They were/are predecessors of Alex Jones and paleoconservatism, but it's the same personnel - Luap Nor, Buchanan, Taki, The American Conservative, antiwar.com, lewrockwell, all those knuckle-draggers.

There are enough cons who agree with the old, race-baiting, commie-baiting JBS to have justified it; in fact I'm kind of surprised they're no longer sponsors.

We were trying to be optimistic with CPAC and conservatives in general at the time. But yes, in retrospect, JBS and CPAC are a perfect fit.

678 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:21:53am

re: #674 makeitstop

Hm. Shows you how much I pay attention. :)

I have just been informed by my teenager that I am hopelessly behind the times for only knowing about this today.

679 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:22:29am

Being a stickler for accuracy myself, I'm damn annoyed by all the outlets who say "Breivik quoted this or that x times", when actually most of that quoting (incl. quoting of LGF) was done by Fjordman.

680 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:22:53am

JBS - 1970s

The society was organized into local chapters during this period. Ernest Brosang, a New Jersey regional coordinator, claimed that it was virtually impossible for opponents of the society to penetrate its policy-making levels, thereby protecting it from "anti-American" takeover attempts. Its activities included the distribution of literature critical of civil rights legislation, warnings over the influence of the United Nations, and the release of petitions to impeach U.S. Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren. To spread their message, members held showings of documentary films and operated initiatives such as "Let Freedom Ring", a nation-wide network of recorded telephone messages.

681 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:24:12am

re: #680 Gus 802

To spread their message, members held showings of documentary films and operated initiatives such as "Let Freedom Ring", a nation-wide network of recorded telephone messages.

Wait, what? JBS invented phone-spam robocalls?

682 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:24:38am

re: #679 Sergey Romanov

Being a stickler for accuracy myself, I'm damn annoyed by all the outlets who say "Breivik quoted this or that x times", when actually most of that quoting (incl. quoting of LGF) was done by Fjordman.

The Fear, Inc Report did that. It was useful in that it showed how often Breivek referenced one fearmongers over another, but the actual number of times was kinda pointless, IMHO.

683 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:25:00am

re: #681 Alouette

Wait, what? JBS invented phone-spam robocalls?

That would have been something new. They couldn't have done it.

684 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:26:19am

re: #683 ggt

That would have been something new. They couldn't have done it.

Oh, no they probably had a bunch of 1-900 numbers "Call this number for an inspirational message" that wasn't phone pr0n.

685 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:27:22am

re: #684 Alouette

Oh, no they probably had a bunch of 1-900 numbers "Call this number for an inspirational message" that wasn't phone pr0n.

I wouldn't be suprised if they own most of the pr0n 1-900's, actually.

Money is money

686 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:27:37am

Good Morning Everyone out there in Lizardia, Hows it going? Now that I've just spent the last hour wearing out one of our furry overlords I can now take a break and jump in until she decides to play again.
So. Whats up?

687 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:27:38am

re: #682 ggt

The Fear, Inc Report did that. It was useful in that it showed how often Breivek referenced one fearmongers over another, but the actual number of times was kinda pointless, IMHO.

Yeah, I noticed. They spared LGF the embarrassment, though they still think it's a right-leaning blog. Politics... ;)

I do think it is relevant whether Breivik cited someone directly (like he did in his document.no comments), or whether he inserted whole chunks of text by someone quoting people. This removes (or adds) a degree of responsibility. It's no compliment being quoted/mentioned by Fjordman either, but he is a pitiful, if malicious, ideologue, not the murderer.

688 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:29:10am

re: #678 EmmmieG

I have just been informed by my teenager that I am hopelessly behind the times for only knowing about this today.

That makes two of us, then!

That's what I get for concentrating on other things. It's easy for me to fall behind.

689 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:29:26am

re: #670 Gus 802

Yep. The JBS was hiding their racism behind the cloak of anti-Communism. Their arguments were that the civil rights movements was a Communist conspiracy. Many of their members worked hand in hand with the White Citizens Councils throughout the south in opposing civil rights.

JBS ideas and rhetoric is all over this:

Image: racemixing_communism.jpg

Image: kingcommunisthighlander-782355.jpg

Image: jfk2.jpg

690 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:30:02am

"Let's do some communism right now, baby! Oh yeah!"

///

692 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:30:55am

re: #690 Sergey Romanov

"Let's do some communism right now, baby! Oh yeah!"

///

Inbreeding is a bad thing.

;0

693 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:32:12am

re: #691 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Evangelicals explain natural disasters are due to sin and immorality

I'm not clicking that.

I want to have a good day.

You know, the whole karma thing (which is basically, IMHO, what they mean when they talk about such things) tends to work in one's personal life, but translating it to the sun, the stars and the tides --not so much.

694 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:34:54am

re: #693 ggt

I'm not clicking that.

I want to have a good day.

You know, the whole karma thing (which is basically, IMHO, what they mean when they talk about such things) tends to work in one's personal life, but translating it to the sun, the stars and the tides --not so much.

Well, here is one of the best bits anyway.

Christians, they are not subject to these disasters and can, in fact, take authority over the weather "if we know what to do"

Christians are MAGICAL!

695 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:36:09am
5.) Bolshevik Watch’s Robert Spencer wrote on Human Events that the report’s authors are assisting Bolsheviks because “Fear, Inc.”, “ignores Jewish Bolshevik activity altogether, portraying Jews as victims and demonizing all who stand in the way of the anti-Gentile and unjust agenda of Jewish Bolshevism, whether advanced by violent or nonviolent means. It thus reveals itself to be just another tool of those same Bolsheviks.”

/

696 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:36:27am

re: #694 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is one of the best bits anyway.

Christians are MAGICAL!

Well damn. So does this mean I can avoid the swimming classes?

//

697 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:37:11am

re: #694 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is one of the best bits anyway.

Christians are MAGICAL!

Wait, they can take "authority" over the weather? Isn't that usurping G-d's job? Are they trying to surpass G-d?

Magic, is blasphemy. But I guess chanting prayers is different that chanting incantations.

698 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:37:49am

re: #694 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, here is one of the best bits anyway.

Christians are MAGICAL!

Why are they so against the Harry Potter books, then?

699 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:38:20am

re: #696 Gus 802

Well damn. So does this mean I can avoid the swimming classes?

//

Yes, but you still have to brush your teeth!

700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:38:34am

re: #698 Alouette

Who is? Harry Potter book's are much better than the "Left Behind" tripe.

701 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:39:19am

re: #700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who is? Harry Potter book's are much better than the "Left Behind" tripe.

What's worse? "Left Behind" series or "Twilight" series?

702 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:39:41am

re: #700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who is? Harry Potter book's are much better than the "Left Behind" tripe.

"Christians" burned Harry Potter books.

All those first editions with pristine dust covers . . . .

The bibliophile bookseller in me mourned for weeks.

703 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:39:47am

re: #698 Alouette

Why are they so against the Harry Potter books, then?

They hate well written material.

704 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:39:55am

re: #701 Alouette

What's worse? "Left Behind" series or "Twilight" series?

Flip a coin.

705 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:40:24am

re: #703 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They hate well written material.

So why do they hate the "Twilight" books?

706 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:40:53am

re: #701 Alouette

What's worse? "Left Behind" series or "Twilight" series?

Thats like comparing Uwe Boll to Ed Wood.

707 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:41:09am

re: #705 Alouette

So why do they hate the "Twilight" books?

Vampires and unmarried, underage sex.

708 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:41:18am

re: #703 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Because they got kids reading and interested in books - which in turn spurs learning, which in turn leads to questioning authority. /but not by much...

709 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:41:24am

re: #705 Alouette

So why do they hate the "Twilight" books?

Hatred of Twilight is a natural reaction.

710 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:42:34am

re: #709 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hatred of Twilight is a natural universal reaction.

ftfy

711 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:43:46am

re: #698 Alouette

Why are they so against the Harry Potter books, then?

Yeah, I'd like to know that one myself! In the books and the movies they celebrate Christmas! Hugely! Right down to the 30 or 40' tree! And I would dearly like to know who it was that decided they have the right to tell everyone else how to worship, when to worship and who to revile when this country was founded on the basic principle of for the people, by the people and of the people? I think delusion is setting in and I wish they'd stop! Just stop! What part of "Separation of Church and State" do they not get? Ugh! Sorry, my soap box gets in the way some times and I feel the need to vent.

712 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:44:50am

re: #709 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Crappy books; even crappier movies that literally suck the life out of the vampire mythos.

Memo to Ed Cullen: Just bite her already.. Put her, and the rest of us, out of our collective misery.

713 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:45:18am

I've said it before. I've never read the Potter books but Rowling is awesome for getting more people in my generation into reading than anyone else. I've finally gotten into fiction the past couple years too after years of reading non-fiction only. That played a big role in declaring my English minor.

714 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:46:03am

re: #711 Dragon_Lady

Yeah, I'd like to know that one myself! In the books and the movies they celebrate Christmas! Hugely! Right down to the 30 or 40' tree! And I would dearly like to know who it was that decided they have the right to tell everyone else how to worship, when to worship and who to revile when this country was founded on the basic principle of for the people, by the people and of the people? I think delusion is setting in and I wish they'd stop! Just stop! What part of "Separation of Church and State" do they not get? Ugh! Sorry, my soap box gets in the way some times and I feel the need to vent.

At one point, I ran across a Christian article in favor of the Harry Potter series. A Christian Father decided to read the series because his kids asked him why he wouldn't allow them to read them when he didn't know what was in them. He was, IMHO, a thoughtful Christian.

Anyway, he read them and LOVED them. Then wrote about how silly it was to ban them. He went thru point-by-point about how JP Rowling dealt with divination etc.

It was quite refreshing.

715 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:46:10am

re: #707 ggt

Vampires and unmarried, underage sex.

Gay vampires and whiny, clingy emotionally handicapped psycho chicks.

716 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:46:10am

re: #712 lawhawk

Never seen/read. Is it like the "Scream" of the vampire lore?

717 Mocking Jay  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:47:16am

re: #715 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Gay sparkly vampires.

718 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:47:40am

re: #712 lawhawk

Crappy books; even crappier movies that literally suck the life out of the vampire mythos.

Memo to Ed Cullen: Just bite her already.. Put her, and the rest of us, out of our collective misery.

Interview with a Vampire with Tom Cruise (nutcase) was really a well done movie, IMHO.

The closing scene was perfect.

719 Alexzander  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:48:00am

Stephen King's take on Twilight vs Harry Potter:

Image: stephen-king-quote-harry-potter-vs-twilight.jpg

720 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:48:30am

This is the big news with environmentalists today:

Obama Smog Decision Will Leave In Place ‘Legally Indefensible’ Environmental Standard

President Obama pulled the plug Friday on a long-delayed environmental regulation that would have further limited industrial smog emissions, leaving in place an ozone standard that EPA administrator Lisa Jackson recently described as "legally indefensible."

The proposed limits have been under assault by congressional Republicans and the business community for months. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) recently called it "possibly the most harmful of all the currently anticipated Obama Administration regulations."

Obama's decision comes the same day new employment figures show the economy created zero net jobs in August.

What was the regulation, and what does it mean now that it's been scotched? In short, it means Bush-era smog standards, declared inadequate by government science advisers, will likely remain in effect until mid-decade if not longer.

Continues.

So. According to Republicans this will lead to job creation no?

721 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:48:57am

re: #702 ggt

"Christians" burned Harry Potter books.

All those first editions with pristine dust covers . . .

The bibliophile bookseller in me mourned for weeks.

There are so many better books to burn... (I looking at you Sarah Palin.)

722 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:49:26am

re: #719 Alexzander

I've quoted that here.

723 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:49:34am

re: #716 Sergey Romanov

Scream was witty and imaginative in comparison. Wes Craven understands the material and worked the camp and humor into the horror genre - using the rules of horror to his advantage.

Meyer took the vampire mythos and substituted her own oddities but centered everything around a petulant and unlikeable girl who spends the entire series moping around while she's got two guys pining for her attentions.

I can envision ways that they could have gotten a much better book/movie series out of the base material, but with everything focusing on bella, it can't help but suck.

724 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:50:51am

re: #723 lawhawk

Scream was witty and imaginative in comparison. Wes Craven understands the material and worked the camp and humor into the horror genre - using the rules of horror to his advantage.

Meyer took the vampire mythos and substituted her own oddities but centered everything around a petulant and unlikeable girl who spends the entire series moping around while she's got two guys pining for her attentions.

I can envision ways that they could have gotten a much better book/movie series out of the base material, but with everything focusing on bella, it can't help but suck.

tween girls and their moms loved it.

So glad I don't have a daughter.

725 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:52:15am
Conservative columnist Matthew Vadum is just going to come right out and say it: registering the poor to vote is un-American and "like handing out burglary tools to criminals."

"It is profoundly antisocial and un-American to empower the nonproductive segments of the population to destroy the country -- which is precisely why Barack Obama zealously supports registering welfare recipients to vote," Vadum, the author of a book published by World Net Daily that attacks the now-defunct community organizing group ACORN, writes in a column for the American Thinker.

"Encouraging those who burden society to participate in elections isn't about helping the poor," Vadum writes. "It's about helping the poor to help themselves to others' money. It's about raw so-called social justice. It's about moving America ever farther away from the small-government ideals of the Founding Fathers."

The dead horse known as ACORN continues to be beaten.

726 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:52:19am

re: #718 ggt

Good movie overall, but I didn't think Cruise was right for Lestat. The other casting was spot on though (including a very young and precocious Kirsten Dunst)

727 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:52:30am

re: #721 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There are so many better books to burn... (I looking at you Sarah Palin.)

Go to any used book store and look at the 20 million copies they have of Bridges of Madison County and you get a good idea of what is out there that can be burned without anyone every noticing.

The Harry Potter books are kept upfront by the register. If they are first editions, they are kept behind the register.

728 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:53:41am

re: #726 lawhawk

Good movie overall, but I didn't think Cruise was right for Lestat. The other casting was spot on though (including a very young and precocious Kirsten Dunst)

The scene I linked didn't have the Rolling Stones music behind it, I couldn't find a youtube that did have it.

729 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:53:52am

re: #712 lawhawk

Crappy books; even crappier movies that literally suck the life out of the vampire mythos.

Memo to Ed Cullen: Just bite her already.. Put her, and the rest of us, out of our collective misery.

I refuse to read the books or watch the movies.

Brian Lumley's Wamphyri would gut Edward and use his husk as meat for a flier.

730 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:54:09am

Dems to Obama: Stop Compromising with GOP

The Associated Press is reporting that Democrats are tiring of President Obama's concessions to the GOP on matters large (tax cut for the wealthy) and small (timing of jobs talk). President Obama has yielded to House Speaker John Boehner in a string of concessions that have unnerved Democrats and emboldened Republicans. A chorus of Democratic voices is now demanding that the president abandon his attempts at being a compromiser and instead lay out an ideological vision that distinguishes him from Republicans and becomes a template for his re-election.

Obama must create a clear contrast between what he wants and what the Republicans want, Simon Rosenberg, president of the liberal-leaning think tank NDN, wrote this week. “If the president is to win the election next year, he will have to first win the economic debate with the Republicans, something, to date, he has not done.”

Democratic strategist James Carville was even sharper, decrying the spectacle of the president being forced to change the day of his address to a joint session of Congress after Boehner took issue with Obama’s initial request.

“The last thing that the White House needed was to appear to cave in to the speaker, and that’s what happened,” he said Thursday on ABC.

Continues.

731 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:55:02am

re: #714 ggt

At one point, I ran across a Christian article in favor of the Harry Potter series. A Christian Father decided to read the series because his kids asked him why he wouldn't allow them to read them when he didn't know what was in them. He was, IMHO, a thoughtful Christian.

Anyway, he read them and LOVED them. Then wrote about how silly it was to ban them. He went thru point-by-point about how JP Rowling dealt with divination etc.

It was quite refreshing.

Yeah, there are reasonable Christians out there. The problem is the majority of the ones getting all the attention are the extremists whom are doing all the squeaking like rusty wheels and they are the ones getting all the media grease! I'm getting real sick of hearing from them (Ms. Bachman chiefly among them) and I would love it if they'd all just bury themselves in their bible studies and leave the running of the country to those who have no religious agendas and want whats good for the rest of us!

732 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:55:07am

re: #728 ggt

The scene you linked cuts out just before the music swells and it goes to the credits, but it's actually the Stones' Sympathy for the Devil covered by Guns and Roses.

733 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:55:11am

re: #724 ggt

tween girls and their moms loved it.

So glad I don't have a daughter.

I'm so glad I've got my kids hooked on 40k instead.

734 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:55:25am

re: #730 Gus 802

I don't like the way it looks either, but hopefully, in the end, Obama will be perceived as a pragmatist more than he is perceived as being weak.

735 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:55:48am

re: #720 Gus 802

This is the big news with environmentalists today:

Obama Smog Decision Will Leave In Place ‘Legally Indefensible’ Environmental Standard

So. According to Republicans this will lead to job creation no?

not nearly so big as Harry Potter....not a single comment

736 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:56:16am

re: #735 albusteve

not nearly so big as Harry Potter...not a single comment

Hey, what about MEEEEEEE?

737 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:57:31am

re: #730 Gus 802

Dems to Obama: Stop Compromising with GOP

Bipartisanship!

738 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:58:09am

Oh, and btw, I am looking forward to the Dragon Tattoo trilogy as remade by Fincher coming to theaters starting this fall. The books were not bad, but they grew somewhat predictable. Still, lots of funky material to work with and it's darker than a lot of other stuff out there.

And with Academy Award Winner™ Trent Reznor doing the music, I'll pay to see it on that basis alone (and the Mrs. loves the books, so there's that too).

739 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:58:15am

re: #734 ggt

I don't like the way it looks either, but hopefully, in the end, Obama will be perceived as a pragmatist more than he is perceived as being weak.

I think Obama should have told Boehner to go feck himself this week. Not using those words of course. But Obama continues to compromise with the Republicans and he gets zero credit from Republicans. For instance today's announcement regarding ozone regulation will be met with complete silence from the right wing. You would think they would applaud this move. Not likely. Instead it is being met with consternation from the environmentalist left. I use the word "left" freely here.

740 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:58:27am

re: #730 Gus 802

Dems to Obama: Stop Compromising with GOP

It's a mess but I'm not sure if there's much he can do. The Republicans are uncompromising. They were willing to throw away our AAA credit rating and default on the debt to keep the deficit busting tax breaks for the rich. They are willing to drive over the cliff and take the country with them. I don't think there's much room for comprimise.

741 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:58:35am

My son attends an all-boys Benedictine High School. His first English Lit assignment this year was to read a novel under one of three categories.

1-Banned Books
2-Historical Novel
3-One from the List in the school library.

I voted for Banned Books, but he chose an Historical Novel he already read.

Typical teenage boy.

742 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:59:03am

Dude! Free weed lying on San Jose street snatched up by bystanders

It was a pot head's dream: Free marijuana lying on the street for the taking, without a cop in sight.

San Jose police say a truck illegally carrying marijuana crashed and ended up on its side near Oakridge Mall early Wednesday, sending large bags of pot throughout the intersection as the frightened driver ran away.

Several motorists and pedestrians who happened to be passing through the area ran out and grabbed most of the marijuana bags and took off before police arrived.

Officers eventually collected the remaining bags of weed left at the scene and also found a loaded handgun inside the white truck. They're still looking for the driver and all the people who snatched up the loose bags of pot and don't have any suspect descriptions.

743 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:59:39am

re: #735 albusteve

not nearly so big as Harry Potter...not a single comment

That's OK. I noticed the Harry Potter convo already and expected it to continue. ;)

744 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:00:08am

re: #742 NJDhockeyfan

Dude! Free weed lying on San Jose street snatched up by bystanders

Good luck with recovering the "lost" bags of pot snatched by bystanders.

ROTFLAMO

745 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:00:26am

My youngest daughter loves the "Twilight" books. But since she is a grown-up and has a job and her own apartment, I really can't complain about her choice of reading/viewing material.

746 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:01:15am

re: #725 makeitstop

The dead horse known as ACORN continues to be beaten.

And the Cloward/Piven drum is still being beaten.

People like Vadum only support the idea of democracy if they can control who participates. If "unproductive people" begin to participate, Vadum would rather have a totalitarian state.

I wonder how many of those "unproductive people" mow his lawn and wash his dishes, cut his hair, do his laundry....

747 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:01:18am

re: #745 Alouette

My youngest daughter loves the "Twilight" books. But since she is a grown-up and has a job and her own apartment, I really can't complain about her choice of reading/viewing material.

Sigh! As long as she is reading . . . .

748 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:01:54am

re: #744 ggt

Good luck with recovering the "lost" bags of pot snatched by bystanders.

ROTFLAMO

There's going to be a lot of red eyed cops in the coming weeks.

//

749 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:02:03am

re: #743 Gus 802

That's OK. I noticed the Harry Potter convo already and expected it to continue. ;)

I'll just say just this....it's another very hard body blow and BO can only endure so many of them...the nightmare of a GOP presidency looms larger every day...ho hum, he's undefeatable right?

750 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:02:06am

I gotta go be productive.

Have a great day all!

751 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:02:25am

re: #745 Alouette

My youngest daughter loves the "Twilight" books. But since she is a grown-up and has a job and her own apartment, I really can't complain about her choice of reading/viewing material.

Some parents would try... You're a good Mom!

752 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:02:31am

re: #740 Killgore Trout

It's a mess but I'm not sure if there's much he can do. The Republicans are uncompromising. They were willing to throw away our AAA credit rating and default on the debt to keep the deficit busting tax breaks for the rich. They are willing to drive over the cliff and take the country with them. I don't think there's much room for comprimise.

Both sides have been bickering for years and getting mostly nothing accomplished. Until a leader emerges to get the GOP and the Dems to sit down and make some deals this will continue go on.

753 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:03:15am

re: #747 ggt

Sigh! As long as she is reading . . .

She better be! I bought her a Kindle for her birthday!

754 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:03:45am

re: #752 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides have been bickering for years and getting mostly nothing accomplished. Until a leader emerges to get the GOP and the Dems to sit down and make some deals this will continue go on.

another reason I'm seeing permanent 8% unemployment....that old notion again

755 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:03:46am

re: #749 albusteve

I'll just say just this...it's another very hard body blow and BO can only endure so many of them...the nightmare of a GOP presidency looms larger every day...ho hum, he's undefeatable right?

I don't know. I think this sort of move is appealing to independents. Anyone who considers himself or herself a liberal and stays home on election day because of this isn't thinking clearly. One ozone pollution regulation decision doesn't make the man, Obama.

756 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:05:29am

re: #750 ggt

I gotta go be productive.

Have a great day all!

It is now day #4 since my work PC was upgraded to Windows 7, and they have not installed the most critical software application that I need to perform my day to day job!

Project deadlines have not changed.

757 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:05:37am

Speaking of Vampires...

758 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:06:02am

re: #755 Gus 802

I don't know. I think this sort of move is appealing to independents. Anyone who considers himself or herself a liberal and stay home on election day because of this isn't thinking clearly. One ozone pollution regulation decision doesn't make the man, Obama.

there are a ton of regs coming down the pike...it's up to the voters to decide if these billions are necessary at this point in time....apparently BO thinks not and wants to stay ahead of them

759 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:06:10am

re: #752 NJDhockeyfan

Both sides have been bickering for years and getting mostly nothing accomplished. Until a leader emerges to get the GOP and the Dems to sit down and make some deals this will continue go on.

Lol ponies.

760 RadicalModerate  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:06:57am

And now, another tidbit from Rick Perry's libertarian paradise:

Pay-to-ride leads to traffic headaches at Keller ISD

KELLER - Parents already know they will run into a traffic headache when they pick up or drop off their kids every afternoon at Timberview Middle School in Keller.

"It has been a nightmare," said parent Shea Evans.

The backup has been so bad that some parents gave up driving into campus after their daily wait in line reached the 20 minute mark.

"We literally park on the other side and he walks to us," said parent William Dorsett. "It can be 20 to 30 minutes easily."

The congestion comes after the district eliminated its free bus service to save money. It then implemented a pay-per-ride program. The cost is $370 for the first child each year. The fee drops for an additional child from the same family.

Only 3,000 kids have registered for the program this year, compared to more than 7,000 students who took the bus last school year.

This is a public school, and even though the city has enough in tax revenues to fund the school buses, they have decided to start charging students almost $400/year for transportation to school.

762 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:08:48am

re: #753 Alouette

She better be! I bought her a Kindle for her birthday!

I hope you gave her a gift card to go along with it! I have over 50 books on my i pad and at $7.99 + for each one it really adds up!

763 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:09:10am

re: #758 albusteve

there are a ton of regs coming down the pike...it's up to the voters to decide if these billions are necessary at this point in time...apparently BO thinks not and wants to stay ahead of them

Then you admire Obama for taking this route? It shows a large streak of pragmatism and centrism.

764 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:11:01am

re: #762 Dragon_Lady

I hope you gave her a gift card to go along with it! I have over 50 books on my i pad and at $7.99 + for each one it really adds up!

I can buy paperbacks at Target for less than that.

765 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:13:19am

re: #764 Alouette

I can buy paperbacks at Target for less than that.

Some of them, but new releases can be as much as $18.99, some are free. it averages out and its addictive!

766 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:14:37am

re: #763 Gus 802

Then you admire Obama for taking this route? It shows a large streak of pragmatism and centrism.

I think he has to make this move..but as with his jobs upcoming speech, it leaves a lot of people wondering about the timing...it sure appears to be a campaign move...and as for the speech, people (like me) will ask, why didn't he press these issues two years ago....he's playing defense and that's not at all good

767 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:15:42am

re: #761 Alouette

Jerusalem Post columnist goes all "No True Scotsman"

Hmm, so the 9/11 hijackers weren't Muslims after all, according to the author's logic.

/

768 _RememberTonyC  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:19:41am

Note to the GOP, especially the primary voters: very few independent voters in the northeast will vote for Perry. If you want to lose the 2012 election, nominate Perry, Bachmann, or Paul. If you want a chance to win, you will need to hold your collective noses and nominate someone a bit more moderate who has the ability to get northeast independent voters to cast their ballots for a Republican. If that is not possible, say hello to the second Obama administration ... Even though the economy is in the type of shape that is not good news for an incumbent POTUS.

769 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:20:18am

re: #763 Gus 802

I just don't know enough about it. I had heard about this and have heard arguments from both sides.

This is going to be the crux of new Environmental Standards. They are always going to be dreadfully expensive, hard to implement and very uncomfortable for who ever's in office.

770 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:22:43am

The Crazy Right is running the 'Obama's gonna take our guns' play again - only this time with guitars.

Bob Barr says 'booga-booga' to Gibson owners.

I have to LOL at the guitar players who are actually falling for it.

771 allegro  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:25:20am

re: #746 wrenchwench

And the Cloward/Piven drum is still being beaten.

People like Vadum only support the idea of democracy if they can control who participates. If "unproductive people" begin to participate, Vadum would rather have a totalitarian state.

I wonder how many of those "unproductive people" mow his lawn and wash his dishes, cut his hair, do his laundry...

Pee in his beer... for being a condescending ass.

772 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:27:37am

Perry is leading in the polls due to his economic record. Religion is not playing as big a part as you think it is. Maybe you should talk to more conservatives. Unemployment and a dismal GDP is what the 2012 election will be about and Obama's economic team hasn't a clue what to do.

773 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:29:01am

re: #772 Dewd

Perry is leading in the polls due to his economic record. Religion is not playing as big a part as you think it is. Maybe you should talk to more conservatives. Unemployment and a dismal GDP is what the 2012 election will be about and Obama's economic team hasn't a clue what to do.

His economic record is shit when you look at it. The Texas Miracle is a load of bull.

774 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31:37am

Okay, let's look at California or any other blue state and see where the bull is and how much.

775 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:33:39am

re: #774 Dewd

So is that you admitting that the Texas miracle is bullshit? You spouted your talking point, so now you're just on to your next one?

776 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:33:46am

re: #774 Dewd

Okay, let's look at California or any other blue state and see where the bull is and how much.

No one from CA is running and touting their economic record.

777 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:34:24am

re: #775 Obdicut

So is that you admitting that the Texas miracle is bullshit? You spouted your talking point, so now you're just on to your next one?

You noticed that as well?

778 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:37:50am

The Texas economy (and several other red states) is running circles around most blue states. How is that bull it's a fact.

779 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:40:46am

re: #778 Dewd

The Texas economy (and several other red states) is running circles around most blue states. How is that bull it's a fact.


Since you asked so nicely

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) has built the early stages of his presidential campaign on his state’s ability to create jobs during the last two years of his governorship. The “Texas Miracle,” Perry often says, is responsible for 40 percent of the net new jobs created in America since June 2009. The “Miracle” is no miracle at all — Texas has the nation’s worst job creation record when adjusted for labor force growth — but Republican voters have lapped up the message, pushing Perry to a double-digit lead in early primary polls.

But at a time when federal, state, and local governments continue to shed jobs — more than 500,000 since President Obama took office in 2009 — a bulk of the job creation in Texas has come in the public sector. While Perry espouses small government rhetoric, the “Texas Miracle” created state and local government jobs at a faster rate than any state in the nation, according to 2010 Census data released Tuesday:

Census data showed Texas also boosted employment. The Lone Star state had the biggest percentage increase in state workers, 5.9 percent, from 2009 to 2010. That represented a gain of 17,800 full-time jobs.

Local governments in Texas also added the most part-time jobs of all cities, counties and towns, 24,731.

780 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:41:52am

re: #778 Dewd

The Texas economy (and several other red states) is running circles around most blue states. How is that bull it's a fact.

e_e proof by repeated assertion.

781 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:44:50am

Ah, but my friend, you forgot to mention all the businesses that have relocated or started up there, not to mention the private sector jobs that followed.

782 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:48:44am

re: #781 Dewd

Ah, but my friend, you forgot to mention all the businesses that have relocated or started up there, not to mention the private sector jobs that followed.

Due to tax breaks, not to hire new employees.

Perry’s ‘Pay-to-Play’ Job-Incentive Funds Miss Targets in Texas

Rick Perry touts Texas as home to more new jobs in the past decade than any other state. Yet the taxpayer-funded programs he has used to lure employers and finance expansion often fail to meet employment goals, according to officials and activists.

While basing his bid for the Republican presidential nomination on limited government, the governor, 61, oversees state job-stimulating funds that have provided almost $633 million to companies including retailers Cabela’s Inc. (CAB) and Home Depot Inc. (HD) and agribusinesses such as Tyson Foods Inc. (TSN) A Perry spokeswoman says the recipients have created almost 58,400 new jobs. A watchdog group says two-thirds missed their targets.

Democrats including Jim Dunnam, a former state representative from Waco, also knock Perry for using the funds to reward contributors and for delivering taxpayer money to businesses as schools and health care are shortchanged. Some Republicans have faulted the programs for inadequate disclosure and not reporting on jobs actually created.

“It’s legal plunder,” said state Representative David Simpson, a Longview Republican backed by Tea Party activists.

“You can’t avoid the appearance of impropriety when you take money from everyone and you give it to a select few,” said the first-term lawmaker. He opposes using tax money for business and said he voted against the school funding deal Perry signed.

783 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:54:51am

economics 101 - a company is in business to make profits not to hire employees. Once profits are up (sometimes due to tax breaks) a company can expand and hire more people or sometimes just pay their existing employees more, or both.

784 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:56:13am

re: #783 Dewd

economics 101 - a company is in business to make profits not to hire employees. Once profits are up (sometimes due to tax breaks) a company can expand and hire more people or sometimes just pay their existing employees more, or both.

Civics 101 - A government should not be concerned with a company's profit margin at the expense of the public good.

785 BeenHereAwhile  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:57:33am

re: #740 Killgore Trout

It's a mess but I'm not sure if there's much he can do. The Republicans are uncompromising. They were willing to throw away our AAA credit rating and default on the debt to keep the deficit busting tax breaks for the rich. They are willing to drive over the cliff and take the country with them. I don't think there's much room for comprimise.

President Obama should call a Joint Session of the House & Senate, and screen "Blazing Saddles."

786 Coracle  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:57:43am

re: #783 Dewd

economics 101 - a company is in business to make profits not to hire employees. Once profits are up (sometimes due to tax breaks) a company can expand and hire more people or sometimes just pay their existing employees more, or both.

So a tax break for business is actually an incentive not to hire more workers, but rather increase profits. Yes, I see.

787 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:00:52am

re: #786 Coracle

So a tax break for business is actually an incentive not to hire more workers, but rather increase profits. Yes, I see.

Especially when one of the steps directly in Perry's plan was they were supposed to hire new workers. That was written into the plan, that to qualify for the funds, they had to hire new workers. There is no proof they did so, but they still got the money.

So how does this equate to a good record for Perry again?

788 Coracle  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:02:35am

re: #787 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think it blows a hole in the hull of '(even more) tax breaks create (some) jobs'.

789 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:03:33am

re: #783 Dewd

economics 101 - a company is in business to make profits not to hire employees. Once profits are up (sometimes due to tax breaks) a company can expand and hire more people or sometimes just pay their existing employees more, or both.

=
Or a company can simply pass the profits onto their owners/shareholders to accumulate and ask for more corporate hand-outs. No requirement to use the breaks to do more hiring, is there?

790 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:05:23am

The public good is greatly enhanced when the private sector is thriving. It has never worked the other way around. A profitable, successful business is not evil, it is what a business is supposed to do. Unlike the public sector, the private sector must produce results in order to survive. Oh, and passing the profits onto their owners/shareholders is called reinvesting in your company and is not evil either.

791 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:05:23am

re: #789 oaktree

=
Or a company can simply pass the profits onto their owners/shareholders to accumulate and ask for more corporate hand-outs. No requirement to use the breaks to do more hiring, is there?

Actually, if you look at the plan, they were required to hire new employees, but fell short of the numbers they were required to hire.

792 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:06:50am

re: #790 Dewd

Oh, and passing the profits onto their owners/shareholders is called reinvesting in your company and is not evil either.

You fail econ 101 I'm afraid. Shareholder payouts are in fact the opposite of reinvestment.

793 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:08:34am

re: #790 Dewd

The public good is greatly enhanced when the private sector is thriving. It has never worked the other way around. A profitable, successful business is not evil, it is what a business is supposed to do. Unlike the public sector, the private sector must produce results in order to survive. Oh, and passing the profits onto their owners/shareholders is called reinvesting in your company and is not evil either.

I see you missed mentioning a responsible, well regulated private sector, held to standards of conduct and ethics.

Any enterprise can be profitable and successful in and of itself. How it does so is the question.

794 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:09:24am

re: #761 Alouette

Jerusalem Post columnist goes all "No True Scotsman"

Shmuley Boteach wrote a piece that troubled me a great deal, also about the Kletzky murder. This is challenging people's world views, and not all of them are handling it well.

795 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:10:33am

re: #767 Sergey Romanov

Hmm, so the 9/11 hijackers weren't Muslims after all, according to the author's logic.

/

Nonononono, THEY were, because the Koran MANDATES this kind of thing.

///Been a couple rounds with this argument.

796 Dewd  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:10:50am

When shareholder payouts increase, that stock becomes more valuable and when more stock is purchased that is in fact an investment in the company.

797 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:11:15am

re: #790 Dewd

The public good is greatly enhanced when the private sector is thriving. It has never worked the other way around. A profitable, successful business is not evil, it is what a business is supposed to do. Unlike the public sector, the private sector must produce results in order to survive. Oh, and passing the profits onto their owners/shareholders is called reinvesting in your company and is not evil either.

But they should be doing all this on their own dime, not at the expense of the taxpayers.

798 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:13:46am

re: #774 Dewd

Okay, let's look at California or any other blue state and see where the bull is and how much.

'Blue state'--remind me how our economy did under a Republican governor for years--not that I am blaming Schwartzenegger--or does voting blue in the nationals automatically blow the economy?

799 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:14:47am

re: #783 Dewd

economics 101 - a company is in business to make profits not to hire employees. Once profits are up (sometimes due to tax breaks) a company can expand and hire more people or sometimes just pay their existing employees more, or both.

'Jobless recovery'

800 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:14:51am

re: #796 Dewd

When shareholder payouts increase, that stock becomes more valuable and when more stock is purchased that is in fact an investment in the company.

"More stock is purchased." From whom? Existing shareholders? Or by share dilution? The stock price going up does not in itself provide any further resources to a company.

I don't think you have a very firm grasp of corporate financial strategy.

If your company has money in the bank, it can do several things.

It can buy more equipment, upgrade existing facilities, spend on R&D etc. This is conventionally called "reinvestment".

It can also pay dividends to shareholders. This is conventionally not called "reinvestment", because it isn't.

It can do other things (e.g., sit on the cash, which is what companies seem to be doing at the moment).

801 Coracle  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:07am

re: #800 iossarian

Don't forget "hire more workers". Most companies have (been forgetting) this last year.

802 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:17am

re: #790 Dewd

The public good is greatly enhanced when the private sector is thriving. It has never worked the other way around. A profitable, successful business is not evil, it is what a business is supposed to do. Unlike the public sector, the private sector must produce results in order to survive. Oh, and passing the profits onto their owners/shareholders is called reinvesting in your company and is not evil either.

Somehow, I think you missed the latest talking points. A private company that can't survive without government dollars is not by any means "profitable" or "successful." If it was producing results, then it would not need the government helping it make payroll. And it most certainly wouldn't be funneling those gov't dollars into shareholders pockets.

803 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:50am

re: #790 Dewd

The public good is greatly enhanced when the private sector is thriving. It has never worked the other way around. A profitable, successful business is not evil, it is what a business is supposed to do. Unlike the public sector, the private sector must produce results in order to survive.

^There is nothing but clichés in this post.

Oh, and passing the profits onto their owners/shareholders is called reinvesting in your company and is not evil either.

lmao

804 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:19:09am

re: #803 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

^There is nothing but clichés in this post.

lmao

Just knocking down the imaginary straw men one by one.

805 jaunte  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:39:36am

Perry's technique of bribing businesses from other states to move to Texas cannot scale up to the national level. Are we going to lower wages to match Mexico or China and call that success?

806 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:42:00am

re: #805 jaunte

Perry's technique of bribing businesses from other states to move to Texas cannot scale up to the national level. Are we going to lower wages to match Mexico or China and call that success?

That's Bachmann's plan apparently.

Republican presidential candidate Michele Bachmann said Friday she wouldn't rule out changes to the federal minimum wage as a way to lower the cost of doing business and lure corporations back to the United States.

807 Aye Pod  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 5:03:54pm

re: #165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

100% delusional post.

Yep. The delusional post in question containesd this:

"Lastly, Christie, like Rick Perry, is an effective political infighter. He can act as what Richard Nixon called a "nut-cutter", clubbing down wingnut dissidents in order to keep the party sanely oriented.
"
You got 6 downdingas for saying that the above was delusional. WTF? Is it 2005 all over again here?

LOL.

808 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31:01pm

re: #807 Jimmah

Yep. The delusional post in question containesd this:

"Lastly, Christie, like Rick Perry, is an effective political infighter. He can act as what Richard Nixon called a "nut-cutter", clubbing down wingnut dissidents in order to keep the party sanely oriented.
"
You got 6 downdingas for saying that the above was delusional. WTF? Is it 2005 all over again here?

LOL.

Eh, those butthurts can downding to their heart's content, afaic. I could post red letters from the King James Bible in every thread, some of them would still downding out of pure involuntary reaction.


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