Obama Cancels New EPA Smog Standards

Cough

A disappointing move from President Obama, as he lets big corporations get away with poisoning our air for at least two more years: Obama pulls back proposed smog standards, in victory for business.

President Obama abruptly pulled back proposed new national smog standards Friday morning, overruling the Environmental Protection Agency’s efforts to compel states and communities nationwide to reduce local air pollution in the coming years or face federal penalties.

The move represented a win for the business community, which had lobbied to postpone new restrictions on ground-level ozone—known as smog—until 2013 in light of the current economic downturn. It also raised questions about the fate of several other controversial air quality regulations EPA is preparing to finalize this year.

In a statement, Obama praised EPA administrator Lisa P. Jackson’s effort to improve the nation’s air quality, but said he had asked her to withdraw the draft standards since they were scheduled to be reconsidered two years from now anyway.

“Work is already underway to update a 2006 review of the science that will result in the reconsideration of the ozone standard in 2013,” Obama said. “Ultimately, I did not support asking state and local governments to begin implementing a new standard that will soon be reconsidered.”

This means that Bush administration ozone standards declared “legally indefensible” will remain in place until 2013:

In January 2010, Jackson announced that she would set the standard somewhere between 60 and 70 parts per billion. Last month Jackson testified before the Senate that the Bush ozone standards-which will now remain in place for at least a few years “were not legally defensible given the scientific evidence in the record” of the current rulemaking.

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310 comments

1 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:19:01am

Ok, call me stupid but I don't get how he can do that! We need those standards! As an Asthmatic let me tell you sometimes my lungs get tight just walking out the door. I have to have an air purifier on in our place at all times or it would be miserable living here in L.A.

2 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:19:11am

more repercussion of 35 years of no comprehensive energy plan....a huge, epic failure

3 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:20:52am

re: #1 Dragon_Lady

Ok, call me stupid but I don't get how he can do that! We need those standards!

Don't be socialist. Everyone knows this is how you create jobs.

4 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:21:10am

Once again, President Obama has proven his Republican Party critics and the business community wrong. The right wing will no doubt complain that it's only for two years and "will only lead to continuing uncertainty in the business community." While Obama takes this temporary road the Republicans would like to see a permanent end to these proposed regulation. The primary task for Obama is to right this economy. Once we are out of this recession we can proceed with implementing these regulations. I applaud the president for making this decision.

5 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:23:29am

re: #4 Gus 802

Once again, President Obama has proven his Republican Party critics and the business community wrong. The right wing will no doubt complain that it's only for two years and "will only lead to continuing uncertainty in the business community." While Obama takes this temporary road the Republicans would like to see a permanent end to these proposed regulation. The primary task for Obama is to right this economy. Once we are out of this recession we can proceed with implementing these regulations. I applaud the president for making this decision.

agreed....the economy is actually dead at this point...zero growth, time to circle the wagons and bust out of this nightmare....right now nobody cares about particulates in the air

6 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:23:32am

re: #3 publicityStunted

Truly amazing pics. I had heard that China was bad, but WOW! Nice link!

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:24:11am

Not enough. We have to get rid of the EPA altogether and let people decide for themselves whether or not to breathe the air that is available to them. That is true freedom of choice.

8 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:24:50am

re: #3 publicityStunted

For doctors specializing in asthma? I mean, I know a bunch asthma docs, and they're nice people, but most of them already HAVE jobs...

9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:25:25am

re: #4 Gus 802

There is never going to be a good time.

10 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:25:29am

re: #5 albusteve

agreed...the economy is actually dead at this point...zero growth, time to circle the wagons and bust out of this nightmare...right now nobody cares about particulates in the air

Really? Hmm. I guess those of us with lung problem don't mean much any more. Guess I'd better go buy a gas mask. //
Thanks Mr. Obama!

11 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:25:35am

re: #7 ralphieboy

Pretty much.

12 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:26:04am

This temporary delay will turn permanent. All Boehner will have to do is cry and stomp his feet and Obama will rip it up.

13 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:27:04am

re: #10 Dragon_Lady

Really? Hmm. I guess those of us with lung problem don't mean much any more. Guess I'd better go buy a gas mask. //
Thanks Mr. Obama!

Yeah. "Thanks Mr. Obama!" I'm sure that Rick Perry will be a better alternative when it comes to clean air.

14 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:27:44am

re: #13 Gus 802

Yeah. "Thanks Mr. Obama!" I'm sure that Rick Perry will be a better alternative when it comes to clean air.

20 years from now:

"Air! You had air?"

15 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:28:34am

re: #14 Alouette

20 years from now:

"Air! You had air?"

"Grandpa! Tell me about oxygen and the EPA."

//

16 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:28:43am

re: #4 Gus 802

The primary task for Obama is to right this economy. Once we are out of this recession we can proceed with implementing these regulations. I applaud the president for making this decision.

Debunking the GOP’s Dirty Air Hit List: Polluting the Air and Poisoning Our Kids Doesn’t Help the Economy or Create Jobs

For every year that these twelve clean air safeguards are blocked by Rep. Cantor and his House GOP colleagues, the harmful consequences would be:

* Up to 38,600 additional premature deaths;
* Over 19,000 more heart attacks;
* Over 205,000 additional asthma attacks;
* Over 4 million more days when Americans will miss work or school due to the health hazards of air pollution; and
* The elimination of Clean Air Act authority to reduce dangerous heat-trapping air pollution from the biggest industrial polluters.
...
Both reports, and EPA’s own findings, repeatedly stress the enormous monetized benefits from the rule. These enormous health benefits will have a concrete impact on our economy through avoided hospital and doctor visits, fewer missed days of work, and healthier citizens breathing cleaner air. Taken together, these standards have a combined annual benefit of up to $420 billion every year.

17 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:29:06am

re: #9 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is never going to be a good time.

Yep. When the economy turns around the excuse will be "we are in a fledgling recovery and any controls or regulations will hurt the precious. Lets table it until 2020 when we can come up with another excuse."

18 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:30:17am

Obviously, clean air is less important for this country than billionaires not losing another dollar.

19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:30:43am

re: #14 Alouette

We may as well start building "Mega Maid".

20 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:30:59am

re: #13 Gus 802

Yeah. "Thanks Mr. Obama!" I'm sure that Rick Perry will be a better alternative when it comes to clean air.

Fraid I'm not up on Mr. Perry, that's RWC's department. I hate politics and try to ignore it as much as possible. I get too angry when I start listening to them prattle on. Let me guess hes a religious right winger?

21 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31:01am

I just read an opinion piece about this recently:

EPA jumps the gun with job-killing rules
Agency’s new blow to air-quality standard comes two years early
[Link: www.washingtontimes.com...]

Twice this year, President Obama asked federal agencies to review regulations to ensure that they are not interfering with efforts to rebuild the U.S. economy. In January, he signed an executive order directing agencies to use the “least burdensome tools” that take “into account benefits and cost” and “[promote] economic growth … and job creation.”

Either the Environmental Protection Agency didn’t get the memo or it was lost under the growing stack of regulations the agency is advancing at record speed.

Last week, the EPA said it would soon release updated ozone regulations that are going to kill jobs and impose substantial costs on the U.S. economy - at least $90 billion, by its own estimates, and $1 trillion annually between 2020 and 2030 according to industry estimates.

The important part:

n 1997, the Clinton administration set an eight-hour ozone standard of 84 parts per billion. By 2004, there were still 474 counties that had not achieved that goal. Today, just 242 counties aren’t meeting the standard. In 2008, the Bush administration set an even stricter standard that lowered the ozone level to 75 parts per billion. Small businesses are still in the process of implementing technologies to comply with that ruling. Yet the EPA now wants to ratchet down emissions to between 60 and 70 parts per billion.

At those points, the number of nonattainment counties - places with ozone levels that exceed the “‘acceptable” amount - would increase from 242 to between 515 and 650, depending on where the new bar is set.

22 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31:05am

re: #13 Gus 802

Yeah. "Thanks Mr. Obama!" I'm sure that Rick Perry will be a better alternative when it comes to clean air.

outlaw tobacco if lungs are so important

23 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31:09am

re: #19 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We may as well start building "Mega Maid".

No no, that sucks.

24 darthstar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:31:56am

Best moderate black Republican president ever.

I still like Obama, but for fuck's sake, if he wanted the GOP to run the country, he should have said "You betcha" at the debates against McCain.

25 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:32:54am

re: #24 darthstar

Best moderate black Republican president ever.

I still like Obama, but for fuck's sake, if he wanted the GOP to run the country, he should have said "You betcha" at the debates against McCain.

And the Firebaggers applauded!

//

26 Obdicut  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:32:55am

Disappointing. I hope he got something for this.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:33:32am

re: #23 Alouette

Hand me my can of "Perrie-Air".

28 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:33:37am

re: #22 albusteve

outlaw tobacco if lungs are so important

Oh, I'm all for that one! Cigarette smoke is the quickest way to send me hunting for my inhaler! Not to mention all the emphysema and lung cancer that could be avoided!

29 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:33:46am

re: #26 Obdicut

Disappointing. I hope he got something for this.

Lol.

30 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:33:55am

re: #22 albusteve

outlaw tobacco if lungs are so important

..and legalize reefer!

31 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:34:17am

It's disappointing.

32 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:34:26am

re: #26 Obdicut

Disappointing. I hope he got something for this.

Image: bwahaha.jpg

re: #21 RogueOne

Seriously? The Moonie Times? 9_9

33 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:34:43am

re: #21 RogueOne

Right, the Washington Times, a paper run by people with connections to white supremacists. No agenda there.

Also in today's Washington Times: an attack on Martin Luther King, Jr.

KUHNER: Martin Luther King Jr.'s mixed legacy - Washington Times

34 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:35:34am

the reality is that if BO does not get re-elected, then non of the regs will probably not be implement for who knows how long....you gotta break a few eggs

35 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:35:36am

re: #33 Charles

Right, the Washington Times, a paper run by people with connections to white supremacists. No agenda there.

Also in today's Washington Times: an attack on Martin Luther King, Jr.

KUHNER: Martin Luther King Jr.'s mixed legacy - Washington Times

Unfriggingbelievable but not a shock.

36 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:36:20am

re: #26 Obdicut

Disappointing. I hope he got something for this.

Yeah. A kick in the balls.

37 Caoimhe  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:36:45am

re: #20 Dragon_Lady

I hate politics and try to ignore it as much as possible.

And your plan for ignoring politics is to ... read LGF? You may want to rethink this strategy.

Meanwhile, people who are portraying this as Obama choosing to make our air less healthy are showing their ignorance. This is Obama doing th right thing by trying to fix it, and failing in the face of opposition that can't be overcome -- not Obama just wantonly throwing it away. The bad guys are, as always, the GOP and big business, not President Obama.

38 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:37:01am

And to back up my statement: Top Washington Times Editor's Wife Confirms Racism Allegations:

The second most powerful editor at The Washington Times is a white supremacist racist who says blacks are "born genetically 15 to 20 IQ points lower than a white person" and that abortion is necessary "to keep the black and minority population down in this country." His wife, Marian, confirmed this, on the record, in an interview with reporter Max Blumenthal for the Oct. 9 issue of The Nation magazine.

Francis B. Coombs Jr., the managing editor of The Washington Times, a major media ally of the Bush administration, is described by multiple newsroom sources in Blumenthal's piece as an unreconstructed "racial nationalist" and a hater of blacks and Jews.

Following Blumenthal's cover story in The Nation (posted Sept. 20 on the magazine's Web site), Coombs wrote a letter denouncing the supposed "mendacity" of the piece and categorically labeled its serious allegations as false without explanation.

The serious problem with Coombs' line of defense is that his wife, Marian Kester Coombs, confirmed his racist white supremacist worldview in her own on-the-record interview with Blumenthal.

Fran Coombs attacked Blumenthal for his story's "smear" of Marian, saying it was "beneath contempt." Yet the only reason Blumenthal described Marian Coombs' white supremacist activities in detail was because they confirmed her husband's own racist views.

Marian Coombs is a close friend of Jared Taylor, notorious white supremacist and founder of the neo-eugenicist group, American Renaissance. She admitted in her Nation interview that she attended American Renaissance conferences to meet with her old friend, Nick Griffin, leader of the neo-fascist whites-only British National Party (BNP).

Marian Coombs has written frequently for Occidental Quarterly, an openly white supremacist and anti-Semitic publication. In one article, she wrote the United States had become a "den of iniquity" because it allowed too many minority immigrants. In another piece, she criticized interracial marriage, stating: "white men should 'run, not walk' to wed 'racially conscious' white women and avoid being outbred by non-whites."

On American Renaissance's Web site, she posted this comment in 2001: "Whites do not like crowded societies, and Americans would not have to live in crowds if our government kept out Third-World invaders."

39 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:37:04am

re: #28 Dragon_Lady

Oh, I'm all for that one! Cigarette smoke is the quickest way to send me hunting for my inhaler! Not to mention all the emphysema and lung cancer that could be avoided!

Cigarettes suck, and smokers blow.

40 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:37:14am

I think we need to factcheck what Obama's really proposing here. Anyone have a link to Obama's actual proposal?

41 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:37:51am

re: #34 albusteve

the reality is that if BO does not get re-elected, then non of the regs will probably not be implement for who knows how long...you gotta break a few eggs

Honestly, at this point I am pretty much beyond caring.

The GOP can prevent anything they want from happening with a Senate minority.

The Dems, in desperation to get anything done at all, are now Nixon-era Republicans.

Boehner gets 98% of what he wants in the debt ceiling negotiation, and then the zero jobs that ensue are all Obama's fault.

People are stupid, the USA is going to become a feudal state, and lots of children will be born into shitty lives.

And there's fuck all anyone can do about it.

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:38:10am

re: #26 Obdicut

I'm starting to get the feeling we're going to hear a "I choose not to run" speech. I think he's giving up.

Not saying that as someone who leans right; I'm saying it as an observer.

43 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:38:51am

re: #41 iossarian

And there's fuck all anyone can do about it.

Not true, the billionaires can always arrange to give themselves more money.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:38:53am

re: #38 Charles

Friends of RSM?

45 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:39:18am

re: #40 Gus 802

I think we need to factcheck what Obama's really proposing here. Anyone have a link to Obama's actual proposal?

Statement by the President on the Ozone National Ambient Air Quality Standards | The White House

Over the last two and half years, my administration, under the leadership of EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson, has taken some of the strongest actions since the enactment of the Clean Air Act four decades ago to protect our environment and the health of our families from air pollution. From reducing mercury and other toxic air pollution from outdated power plants to doubling the fuel efficiency of our cars and trucks, the historic steps we’ve taken will save tens of thousands of lives each year, remove over a billion tons of pollution from our air, and produce hundreds of billions of dollars in benefits for the American people.
 
At the same time, I have continued to underscore the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and regulatory uncertainty, particularly as our economy continues to recover. With that in mind, and after careful consideration, I have requested that Administrator Jackson withdraw the draft Ozone National Ambient Air Quality Standards at this time. Work is already underway to update a 2006 review of the science that will result in the reconsideration of the ozone standard in 2013. Ultimately, I did not support asking state and local governments to begin implementing a new standard that will soon be reconsidered.

I want to be clear: my commitment and the commitment of my administration to protecting public health and the environment is unwavering. I will continue to stand with the hardworking men and women at the EPA as they strive every day to hold polluters accountable and protect our families from harmful pollution. And my administration will continue to vigorously oppose efforts to weaken EPA’s authority under the Clean Air Act or dismantle the progress we have made.

46 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:39:49am

re: #44 Sergey Romanov

Friends of RSM?

Yes. This is why RSM got a job at that paper.

47 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:40:02am

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm starting to get the feeling we're going to hear a "I choose not to run" speech. I think he's giving up.

Not saying that as someone who leans right; I'm saying it as an observer.

I've suggested that very thing....but I'm an idiot, now there are two of us

48 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:40:29am

re: #13 Gus 802

Yeah. "Thanks Mr. Obama!" I'm sure that Rick Perry will be a better alternative when it comes to clean air.

Or Romney. Corporations are people and need to exhale too!

49 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:40:58am

re: #39 Alouette

Don't make me go all Godwin on you.
/

50 I Am Kreniigh!  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:41:04am

Dope-a-dope.

52 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:41:20am

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

The overthrow of Gaddafi has brought together strange allies, but few stranger than Abdulhakim Belhaj, the military commander of all rebel military forces in Tripoli, and Nato. An Islamist whom Gaddafi tried to have the US list as a terrorist, Mr Belhaj says he was tortured by CIA agents after being arrested in the Far East in 2004 and later handed over by them to Colonel Gaddafi for further torture and imprisonment in Libya.

53 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:41:29am

re: #33 Charles

Right, the Washington Times, a paper run by people with connections to white supremacists. No agenda there.

Also in today's Washington Times: an attack on Martin Luther King, Jr.

KUHNER: Martin Luther King Jr.'s mixed legacy - Washington Times

I'm not sure what that has to do with the EPA rules and I did say it was an opinion piece like his MLK piece you linked. The parts I highlighted are pretty much factual and I stayed away from the opinion portions. The standard isn't dropping below what Bush set it at 2 years ago, 75PPM which is lower than it was in '97. The president isn't rolling back anything, he's just declining to let the EPA implement a new standard early.

54 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:42:01am

re: #47 albusteve

I've suggested that very thing...but I'm an idiot, now there are two of us

Idiots untie!

55 allegro  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:42:01am

re: #37 Caoimhe

And your plan for ignoring politics is to ... read LGF? You may want to rethink this strategy.

Meanwhile, people who are portraying this as Obama choosing to make our air less healthy are showing their ignorance. This is Obama doing th right thing by trying to fix it, and failing in the face of opposition that can't be overcome -- not Obama just wantonly throwing it away. The bad guys are, as always, the GOP and big business, not President Obama.

How is Obama "trying to fix it"? By kicking it down the road again?

In a statement, Obama praised EPA administrator Lisa P. Jackson’s effort to improve the nation’s air quality, but said he had asked her to withdraw the draft standards since they were scheduled to be reconsidered two years from now anyway.

It appears that, at best, Obama is disappointingly complicit using the same talking RW points that I would have hoped he would oppose for everyone's sake. It's getting more and more difficult for me to defend this president.

56 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:42:06am

re: #50 Kreniigh

Dope-a-dope.

So do you think the Dems should primary Obama because of this?

57 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:42:20am

re: #52 Sergey Romanov

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

But Kucnich is a traitor for suggesting that Gaddafi's opponents might have had ties to terrorism.

/

58 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:43:12am

re: #41 iossarian

And there's fuck all anyone can do about it.

Do you know how to register voters? Are there unregistered people where you live? There's always something to be done.

59 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:43:34am

re: #56 Gus 802

So do you think the Dems should primary Obama because of this?

I think "dems" should buy themselves as much heroin as they can, inject it, and watch porn while they die (female dems can choose another viewing option if they prefer).

60 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:43:40am

re: #57 iossarian

But Kucnich is a traitor for suggesting that Gaddafi's opponents might have had ties to terrorism.

/

Ties to terrorism? Just because he was (allegedly) tortured by CIA doesn't make him a terrorist. (It does say something about CIA.)

61 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:44:40am

re: #56 Gus 802

So do you think the Dems should primary Obama because of this?

There seems to be a push for Hillary to run against him. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?

62 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:44:45am

re: #33 Charles

Right, the Washington Times, a paper run by people with connections to white supremacists. No agenda there.

Also in today's Washington Times: an attack on Martin Luther King, Jr.

KUHNER: Martin Luther King Jr.'s mixed legacy - Washington Times

"Moreover, King was a radical leftist. He promoted socialism, pacifism and the appeasement of totalitarian communism. "

JBS lives.

63 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:45:30am

re: #37 Caoimhe

And your plan for ignoring politics is to ... read LGF? You may want to rethink this strategy.

Meanwhile, people who are portraying this as Obama choosing to make our air less healthy are showing their ignorance. This is Obama doing th right thing by trying to fix it, and failing in the face of opposition that can't be overcome -- not Obama just wantonly throwing it away. The bad guys are, as always, the GOP and big business, not President Obama.

Yeah. I know. Ignoring politics is silly and down right un-American, but somehow screaming at the T.V. when the politicians are yakking upsets RWC and raises my blood pressure to an unhealthy level.
Not one of them can ever do anything or say anything that helps me feel like they know what they're doing. Mr Obama, GOP, Democrat, whatever they're political affiliation is, are all included in that statement. Sorry.

64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:45:47am

re: #53 RogueOne

I'm not sure what that has to do with the EPA rules and I did say it was an opinion piece like his MLK piece you linked.

I believe the point was, find a better source - that one discredits itself.

65 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:45:51am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

There seems to be a push for Hillary to run against him. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?

Yeah. It sure would be "interesting".

66 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:46:26am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

There seems to be a push for Hillary to run against him. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?

Yes, very interesting. Two neo-liberals vying to be the next ineffectual "negotiator" between a powerless moderate Democratic majority and a lunatic Republican proto-junta.

67 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:46:36am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

There seems to be a push for Hillary to run against him. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?

You've been hanging out at Hillaryis44 a little too much.

68 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:47:21am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

There seems to be a push for Hillary to run against him.

A push from where/whom?

69 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:47:35am

re: #67 recusancy

You've been hanging out at Hillaryis44 a little too much.

Rodriguez is one of the douchiest douches out there.

71 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:48:01am

Obviously, keeping Obama in the White House would be insufficient. We must elect him some help in Congress.

72 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:48:33am

re: #60 Sergey Romanov

Ties to terrorism? Just because he was (allegedly) tortured by CIA doesn't make him a terrorist. (It does say something about CIA.)

The CIA tortures people who aren't terrorists?

I don't know how I can fit this breathtaking new piece of information into my otherwise coherent worldview.

73 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:48:57am

re: #64 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I believe the point was, find a better source - that one discredits itself.

how?...what was not factual?

74 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:49:13am

re: #71 wrenchwench

Obviously, keeping Obama in the White House would be insufficient. We must elect him some help in Congress.

Good luck getting past 59 senate seats.

75 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:49:21am

re: #72 iossarian

The alternative is that he lies about this. If so, then he is not such a good ally, now, is he? /

76 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:49:33am

re: #66 iossarian

Yes, very interesting. Two neo-liberals vying to be the next ineffectual "negotiator" between a powerless moderate Democratic majority and a lunatic Republican proto-junta.

It always helps things when the the left throws in the towel at the drop of a hat. --I'm looking at you.

77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:50:02am

Evil will always triumph over Good because Good is dumb.
- Dark Helmet.

78 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:50:08am

re: #74 iossarian

Good luck getting past 59 senate seats.

OK, elect him some help in the Senate, too.

You didn't answer my questions.

79 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:50:09am

re: #67 recusancy

You've been hanging out at Hillaryis44 a little too much.

Never been there or even heard about it.

It's all over the blogs & news websites lately.

From RCP:

Carney Grilled Over Potential Hillary Primary Challenge: "You'll Have To Ask Her"

80 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:50:47am

re: #71 wrenchwench

Obviously, keeping Obama in the White House would be insufficient. We must elect him some help in Congress.

Seems the principled left would rather shoot heroine and give up. When the going gets tough, quit. That'll show em!

81 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:51:01am

re: #77 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Evil will always triumph over Good because Good is dumb.
- Dark Helmet.

I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU FELL FOR THAT, MAN!

82 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:51:35am

re: #37 Caoimhe

And your plan for ignoring politics is to ... read LGF? You may want to rethink this strategy.

Meanwhile, people who are portraying this as Obama choosing to make our air less healthy are showing their ignorance. This is Obama doing th right thing by trying to fix it, and failing in the face of opposition that can't be overcome -- not Obama just wantonly throwing it away. The bad guys are, as always, the GOP and big business, not President Obama.

Besides, reading LGF helps me understand whats going on out there and focus on whats important, like other PEOPLE! and their opinions, not just the politicians and their inflated egos or opinions.
And I like the people here, for the most part.

83 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:51:38am

re: #76 recusancy

It always helps things when the the left throws in the towel at the drop of a hat. --I'm looking at you.

To call this "the drop of a hat" is to exhibit willful ignorance concerning the trajectory that the US has taken over the past 30 years.

But you're right, of course, and I will continue to fight despite the odds.

84 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:52:16am

re: #79 NJDhockeyfan

Never been there or even heard about it.

It's all over the blogs & news websites lately.

From RCP:

Carney Grilled Over Potential Hillary Primary Challenge: "You'll Have To Ask Her"

Did you see who asked Carney that question. A woldnutdaily reporter. Good try tho. I'll tell them you're doing your best.

85 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:52:42am

re: #68 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A push from where/whom?

The PUMA contingent. Man, can those people hold a grudge.

86 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:53:33am

re: #85 makeitstop

The PUMA contingent. Man, can those people hold a grudge.

A lot of them make up the disaffected progs. But I don't see much of a push, just a lot of grumbling.

87 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:53:35am

re: #68 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A push from where/whom?

Where else! Firedoglake. ;)

//

88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:55:30am

re: #73 albusteve

how?...what was not factual?

The Moonie Times could print opeds telling us the sky is blue; they're still full of crap. Point: there are better sources that talk about the blueness of the sky, why not use them?

89 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:55:47am

re: #87 Gus 802

Where else! Firedoglake. ;)

//

AKA the Left's Grover Norquist proxy.

I never trusted Hamsher, not from the first day she started that blog.

90 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:56:11am

re: #61 NJDhockeyfan

There seems to be a push for Hillary to run against him. Wouldn't that be interesting to see?

Much as I love Hillary, we can't afford it.

Up the hill. Over the hill. Through the hill. Around the hill. KEEP GOING!!!

91 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:56:18am

Unlike Matthew Vadum, I believe everybody should be registered to vote, and that working on election day turnout is one of the most powerful political actions there is.

If you have never gone door-to-door for something you believe in, you have not exhausted your options.

92 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:56:30am

BO was the best and the brightest, smartest guy ever, the new lion, the hope and change guy, a slam dunk and look what it's gotten him....Clinton is no fool

93 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:56:59am

What people really need to ask is, who are the people voting Republican, and why?

There are some on this very blog.

The only sane voting strategy at this point is to support the candidate who combines electability with the furthest-left political outlook possible.

94 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:57:29am

re: #88 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The Moonie Times could print opeds telling us the sky is blue; they're still full of crap. Point: there are better sources that talk about the blueness of the sky, why not use them?

the facts were correct....doesn't matter if they come from Mad Magazine

95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:58:57am

re: #94 albusteve

the facts were correct...doesn't matter if they come from Mad Magazine

Truther mentality.

96 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:59:20am

I can't think of a primary challenger that came from within the president's administration. Outsiders, yes like Kennedy in 1980 and Buchanan in 1992 but within. I understand disappointment with Obama but I sincerely believe he's better than the alternatives. It's just too bad that there's a lot of ignorance out there.

97 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:59:42am

re: #95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Truther mentality.

really?...why attack me?
pretty weak

98 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 10:59:43am

Oops, gotta go. Cat overlord wants to play again. Later Lizards! Keep Smiling!

99 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:00:09am

Trying to OCR that letter. Here's the first page.

ADMINISTRATOR OFFICE OF INFORMATION AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS
Dear Administrator Jackson:
EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGET WASHINGTON, D.C. 20503
September 2, 2011

On July 11, 2011, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) submitted a draft final rule, "Reconsideration of the 2008 Ozone Primary and Secondary National Ambient Air Quality Standards," for review by the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) under Executive Orders 13563 and 12866. The President has instructed me to return this rule to you for reconsideration. He has made it clear that he does not support finalizing the rule at this time.

OIRA shares EPA's strong and continued commitment to using its regulatory authorities, including the Clean Air Act (the Act), to protect public health and welfare. Over the last two and a half years, EPA has issued a significant number of rules to provide such protection, We also recognize that the relevant provisions of the Clean Air Act forbid EPA to consider costs in deciding on the stringency of national ambient air quality standards, both primary and secondary.

Nonetheless, we believe that the draft final rule warrants your reconsideration. We emphasize three related points:

1. Under the Act, finalizing a new standard now is not mandatory and could produce needless uncertainty. The Act explicitly sets out a five-year cycle for review of national ambient air quality standards. The current cycle began in 2008, and EPA will be compelled to revisit the most recent standards again in 2013. The new scientific work related to those forthcoming standards has already started (see point 2 below). A key sentence of Executive Order 13563 states that our regulatory system "must promote predictability and reduce uncertainty." In this light, issuing a final rule in late 2011 would be problematic in view of the fact that a new assessment, and potentially new standards, will be developed in the relatively near future.

2. The draft reconsideration necessarily depends on the most recent recommendations of the Clean Air Scientific Advisory Committee (CASAC), which in turn rely on a review of the scientific literature as of 2006. Executive Order 13563 explicitly states that our regulatory system "must be based on the best available science," As you are aware, work has already begun on a new and forthcoming scientific review, "based on the best available science." We urge you to reconsider whether to issue a final rule in late 2011, based on evidence that is no longer the most current, when a new scientific assessment is already underway.

3. Under your leadership, EPA has taken a series of strong and unprecedented steps to protect public health by reducing harmful air pollution in general and ozone in particular. For example, EPA and the Department of Transportation recently finalized the first joint rule reducing air pollution (including ozone) from heavy-duty...

100 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:00:44am

re: #97 albusteve

really?...why attack me?
pretty weak

That's not a personal attack. That's an analogy for engaging in the fruitless enterprise of defending the Washington Times.

101 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:00:54am

re: #20 Dragon_Lady

Fraid I'm not up on Mr. Perry, that's RWC's department. I hate politics and try to ignore it as much as possible. I get too angry when I start listening to them prattle on. Let me guess hes a religious right winger?

Yes that is the Dominionist, the kind Reagan broke away from as too extreme. Oh, the other is Bachmann. Facing that, some actually have the nerve to express shock that a couple others are Mormons.

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:00:55am

re: #86 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

A lot of them make up the disaffected progs. But I don't see much of a push, just a lot of grumbling.

No one who wants Hillary Clinton to be president is particularly progressive.

I say this as someone who wanted Hillary Clinton to be president.

103 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:01:09am

re: #90 SanFranciscoZionist

Much as I love Hillary, we can't afford it.

Up the hill. Over the hill. Through the hill. Around the hill. KEEP GOING!!!

I'm sure there are people seriously suggesting it but I don't think anyone serious is suggesting it.

104 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:01:18am

re: #91 wrenchwench

Unlike Matthew Vadum, I believe everybody should be registered to vote, and that working on election day turnout is one of the most powerful political actions there is.

If you have never gone door-to-door for something you believe in, you have not exhausted your options.

Yup. That's what the jihad against "voter fraud" is all about. Disenfranchisement. Between him and the gov of Maine the right has been pretty honest about their intentions.

105 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:01:31am

re: #16 publicityStunted

Combined benefit of $420 billion annually. Hey, that could pay for health care reform right there...

BTW, as much as Jackson claims that the 75ppb limit was "legally indefensible", it was still an improvement over the limit set during the Clinton Administration at 80 ppb. It's just not as much as some had wanted, when they demanded somewhere in the range of 60-70 ppb.

[Link: www.epa.gov...]

I think this is another instance of compromise and taking some improvement over no improvement at all (re: the Bush change).

This particular regulation imposing a more stringent ozone level would have come up for review in 2 years time, and there was a likelihood that it would have been rescinded or rolled back close to the Bush level (75 ppb), so rather than fight against a Republican controlled House, Obama's hedging that he'll have a more amenable makeup in the House in 2 years' time. He's likely to be proven right on this tact.

106 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:02:08am

The troll downstairs is beginning to damage my calm.

107 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:02:24am

Observation. The right wingers are going to rub this in the left's face.

108 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:03:31am

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

No one who wants Hillary Clinton to be president is particularly progressive.

I say this as someone who wanted Hillary Clinton to be president.

I would have been fine with either her or Barack Obama, didn't matter. I do get a good belly laugh at those who seem to think the iron-my-shirt rwnj wouldn't have been just as virulent and seething against her as Obama. Or yeah, that her policies would be any more so-called "progressive" /eyeroll

Absurd.

109 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:03:58am

re: #107 Gus 802

Observation. The right wingers are going to rub this in the left's face.

Where's your messiah now?!

110 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:03:59am

re: #107 Gus 802

Observation. The right wingers are going to rub this in the left's face.

We can either give them the response they want and be defensive and whiney and snipe our own side or shrug it off and move on to productive activities.

111 wrenchwench  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:04:59am

re: #110 recusancy

We can either give them the response they want and be defensive and whiney and snipe our own side or shrug it off and move on to productive activities.

Keep it up. I gotta go fix a bike.

112 recusancy  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:05:28am

re: #111 wrenchwench

Keep it up. I gotta go fix a bike.

So you can go canvas right?! :)

113 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:05:34am

re: #108 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

We would have seen a substitution of anti-feminist tripe for the racist tripe coming from the right wing had Hillary won instead of Obama (although the current right wing is playing both - especially with its anti-women agenda re: abortion).

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:05:53am

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The troll downstairs is beginning to damage my calm.

Where is it, and what is it talking about?

115 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:06:04am

re: #108 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I would have been fine with either her or Barack Obama, didn't matter. I do get a good belly laugh at those who seem to think the iron-my-shirt rwnj wouldn't have been just as virulent and seething against her as Obama. Or yeah, that her policies would be any more so-called "progressive" /eyeroll

Absurd.

To be fair, I think pre-election it was a plausible argument that Obama's "progressive ceiling" was higher than Hillary's. (Not saying that you had to agree, just that it was plausible.)

With hindsight, though, you are exactly right.

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:06:45am

re: #96 HappyWarrior

I can't think of a primary challenger that came from within the president's administration. Outsiders, yes like Kennedy in 1980 and Buchanan in 1992 but within. I understand disappointment with Obama but I sincerely believe he's better than the alternatives. It's just too bad that there's a lot of ignorance out there.

Obama won't be primaried, that's a rw fantasy and a prog delusion.

My favorite game with them is, ok, give me a name. Sept 3 2012 is the DNC...you have one year, just give me one name. They don't even have a viable name, much less someone who could actually get a nomination over Obama.

117 laZardo  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:07:27am

Morning folks. Day off from job, so I get to relax and bask in my misery before forcing that smile back onto my face.

How y'all?

118 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:08:14am

re: #110 recusancy

We can either give them the response they want and be defensive and whiney and snipe our own side or shrug it off and move on to productive activities.

I agree - let them. It's not like they have any ideas of their own, so who gives a damn how much they despise the left.

119 Amory Blaine  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:08:16am

re: #109 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

howz dat hopesy changey thing werking fer youzzz??

120 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:08:37am

re: #117 laZardo

Morning folks. Day off from job, so I get to relax and bask in my misery before forcing that smile back onto my face.

How y'all?

Are you here (as in the US) for good now?

121 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:09:15am

re: #118 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I agree - let them. It's not like they have any ideas of their own, so who gives a damn how much they despise the left.

You know you could argue that he's doing the right thing here. It's not a very difficult argument to make.

122 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:09:40am

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist

Where is it, and what is it talking about?

Perry's economic record and how awesome it is.

123 allegro  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:09:44am

re: #93 iossarian

What people really need to ask is, who are the people voting Republican, and why?

There are some on this very blog.

I asked that very question of one very recently. The response? *crickets*

124 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:12:31am

Gotta run. I wish I could spend more time here. It's been crazy busy lately.

Have a great weekend!

125 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:13:08am

BTW....one of my daughters made yellow belt in karate last night.

Woohoo!

126 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:13:18am

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The troll downstairs is beginning to damage my calm.

What a little douchball. I'm sorry I went back down there. Had to come back up here for air.

127 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:13:26am

re: #121 RogueOne

You know you could argue that he's doing the right thing here. It's not a very difficult argument to make.

Yeah, you're right. But I'm not interested in defending Obama. Especially not to people with some mental issue that has them beside themselves with outrage over every time he sneezes. Fool's errand; let 'em go think whatever.

128 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:13:38am

re: #122 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Perry's economic record and how awesome it is.

Doesn't know economics but definitely got an "A" in Parroting Talking Points 101.

129 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:15:21am

re: #128 oaktree

Doesn't know economics but definitely got an "A" in Parroting Talking Points 101.

Its nice when they go straight by the playbook.

130 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:12am

OK I OCR'd that letter. Here it is for your review:

Letter from OIRA Admin. Cass Sunstein to EPA Admin. Lisa Jackson: Ozone Standards

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:34am

re: #125 NJDhockeyfan

BTW...one of my daughters made yellow belt in karate last night.

Woohoo!

Mazal tov! Good work!

132 Olsonist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:47am

re: #71 wrenchwench

Obviously, keeping Obama in the White House would be insufficient. We must elect him some help in Congress.

re: #80 recusancy

Seems the principled left would rather shoot heroine and give up. When the going gets tough, quit. That'll show em!

We did. 2006 was a lot of hard work by Progressives. Defeating Pombo out here in CA wasn't easy and definitely wasn't on the Centrist agenda. Obama was elected with a strong majority in both the Senate and the House and he squandered it.

Yeah, it's important to elect him some help. It's also important that he do something with it.

That said, his canceling EPA smog standards was not a veto or signing legislation. This was Obama acting alone.

133 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:16:53am

re: #129 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Its nice when they go straight by the playbook.

The measure of a successful sports team is that, even when you know what they're going to do, you still can't stop them.

Applies to trolls also.

134 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:17:21am

re: #125 NJDhockeyfan

BTW...one of my daughters made yellow belt in karate last night.

Woohoo!

My daughter maintained her 4.0 average at Columbia grad school for the summer term.

But your daughter could still kick her ass.

135 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:17:35am

re: #125 NJDhockeyfan

What did she think of the test?

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:18:11am

re: #126 Alouette

What a little douchball. I'm sorry I went back down there. Had to come back up here for air.

Eh, it's just doing standard talking points. "Red state good. Blue state bad. The government's business is to create a healthy bidness environment, but the bidness has no responsibility to create jobs in response. California is broke, so that proves my point."

137 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:18:14am

re: #134 Alouette

My daughter maintained her 4.0 average at Columbia grad school for the summer term.

But your daughter could still kick her ass.

LOL!

The bully at school learned the hard way last year how good she is.

138 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:18:53am

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere? Because the guy who's doing the job he should be doing isn't worth a damn. I didn't vote for the guy and I'm beginning to consider demanding a refund.

139 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:19:09am

re: #135 Rightwingconspirator

What did she think of the test?

She didn't get one. The instructor gave three of them yellow belts when he felt they were ready to move on to the next level.

140 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:19:42am

Gotta run!

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:20:42am

I'm still so mad about the person on Breitbart's site, and the Rockwell painting, I could spit.

142 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:20:48am

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere? Because the guy who's doing the job he should be doing isn't worth a damn. I didn't vote for the guy and I'm beginning to consider demanding a refund.

Don't look at me I voted for McCain.

//

143 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:22:19am

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere? Because the guy who's doing the job he should be doing isn't worth a damn. I didn't vote for the guy and I'm beginning to consider demanding a refund.

Too late! The Obama-bashing-from-the-left window closed five minutes ago.

Now I'm back to "fight the bastards" mode.

144 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:22:20am

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still so mad about the person on Breitbart's site, and the Rockwell painting, I could spit.

Spit twice, for the fuckwarts who spoiled the IPO performance in London.

145 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:22:40am

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere?

I have. I've gotten pretty much what I've expected from my vote, which was a vote for a DLC-style centrist purple states Dem. Didn't have a problem casting that vote in 08 and will gladly do it again in 12.

I have gotten the feeling from the primary-obama types, though, they're the ones who actually bought into this nutbaggery that he's a "socialist" trying to "change this country". Lol, please.

146 RogueOne  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:23:16am

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere? Because the guy who's doing the job he should be doing isn't worth a damn. I didn't vote for the guy and I'm beginning to consider demanding a refund.

Somehow I'm ending up the person defending the president here...weird.//

This was the right move. The job numbers this morning (ZERO!), the downward revisions of the GDP and previous monthly job reports, all point to the possibility of another recession coming. Now is not the time to be forcing the states to spend a bunch of money and close down power plants (costing jobs) when these rules legally have to be reviewed again in '13. The air is not going to be any dirtier tomorrow than it was last week and it's cleaner than it was just 3 years ago.

147 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:24:02am

re: #145 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I have. I've gotten pretty much what I've expected from my vote, which was a vote for a DLC-style centrist purple states Dem. Didn't have a problem casting that vote in 08 and will gladly do it again in 12.

I have gotten the feeling from the primary-obama types, though, they're the ones who actually bought into this nutbaggery that he's a "socialist" trying to "change this country". Lol, please.

I'm not calling on the man to be a socialist, I'm not calling on him to be a moonbat. I'm just calling on him to grow a spine, show us that charisma that carried him so far back in '08. Give me a reason to vote for him, rather than against the GOP.

148 albusteve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:24:25am

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere? Because the guy who's doing the job he should be doing isn't worth a damn. I didn't vote for the guy and I'm beginning to consider demanding a refund.

that BO went for the whole pot with health care, instead of dealing with the problem in increments and the jury is till out on that...then straight to the noStimulus and dumped $800b into that fiasco....I actually prefer the 2011 BO

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:25:09am

re: #144 Alouette

Spit twice, for the fuckwarts who spoiled the IPO performance in London.

Oh, I think that backfired on them.

150 Coracle  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:25:41am

re: #146 RogueOne

Somehow I'm ending up the person defending the president here...weird.//

This was the right move. The job numbers this morning (ZERO!), the downward revisions of the GDP and previous monthly job reports, all point to the possibility of another recession coming. Now is not the time to be forcing the states to spend a bunch of money and close down power plants (costing jobs) when these rules legally have to be reviewed again in '13. The air is not going to be any dirtier tomorrow than it was last week and it's cleaner than it was just 3 years ago.

On the first part, there's hope for you yet.

On the second, I agree in general, though these regs would likely not have done much of any closing of plants, they would have raised energy cost a handful of percent over the next 5 or so years as more controls were put in (not to mention being fought in the courts). And during that time, the regs would be revisited _again_. So, better to wait.

151 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:26:21am

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still so mad about the person on Breitbart's site, and the Rockwell painting, I could spit.

The worst part was when she compared it to Mohammad Alta. Yeah a little girl who just wanted to get treated as a fellow human being by her peers is exactly the same as the man who led the plan to murder thousands of Americans. I wonder how people with that kind of madness get published in the first place.

152 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:27:47am

re: #146 RogueOne

Somehow I'm ending up the person defending the president here...weird.//

This was the right move. The job numbers this morning (ZERO!), the downward revisions of the GDP and previous monthly job reports, all point to the possibility of another recession coming. Now is not the time to be forcing the states to spend a bunch of money and close down power plants (costing jobs) when these rules legally have to be reviewed again in '13. The air is not going to be any dirtier tomorrow than it was last week and it's cleaner than it was just 3 years ago.

I can agree with that, my problem is the general theme that we need to put things off "until better days." I'd like to see something, set in stone, that says this isn't just the first step to doing away with these regs.

153 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:27:54am

Q'Daffy retakes Libyan capital by moving it

We are ready for a long, drawn-out war," said Syrian television Al-Rai's broadcast of a message from a man purported to be Gadhafi.

He said he has moved the Libyan capital to his native Sirte, where anti-Gadhafi forces were waiting on the outskirts for orders to attack.

Genius!

154 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:28:49am

Posted this Tripoli photo on the prev. thread, but it bears repeating. There's literally nothing that won't be blamed on Jews:

Image: 448648.png

155 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:28:51am

re: #147 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm not calling on the man to be a socialist, I'm not calling on him to be a moonbat. I'm just calling on him to grow a spine, show us that charisma that carried him so far back in '08. Give me a reason to vote for him, rather than against the GOP.

[Link: whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com...]

156 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:29:28am

re: #141 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still so mad about the person on Breitbart's site, and the Rockwell painting, I could spit.

There's something distinctly un-American about not liking Norman Rockwell.

Pinko commies over there, that's what.

157 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:29:40am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Q'Daffy retakes Libyan capital by moving it

Genius!

Oh goodie, it's the "Line of Death" all over again.

"That was my capital yesterday! This is my capital today!"

158 Coracle  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:30:35am

re: #157 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Oh goodie, it's the "Line of Death" all over again.

"That was my capitol yesterday! This is my capitol today!"

I imagine the capitol will be moving six feet down soon enough.

159 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:31:21am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Q'Daffy retakes Libyan capital by moving it

Genius!

"We are gathering our strength in one town, while our enemies are forced to spread out throughout the rest of the country!"

160 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:31:23am

re: #155 Gus 802

[Link: whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com...]

I'm not gonna pull a wingnut and claim he hasn't accomplished anything. My gripe is with his not making an effort to get this stuff out there to public. Instead, the stimulus has been labeled by the press as "failed," the ACA has been boiled down to "death panels" and the individual mandate, and items like DADT were lost in the pre-Christmas rush.

161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:31:41am

re: #147 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm not calling on the man to be a socialist, I'm not calling on him to be a moonbat. I'm just calling on him to grow a spine, show us that charisma that carried him so far back in '08. Give me a reason to vote for him, rather than against the GOP.

No, that part of the post wasn't against you, sorry if you took it that way. Dunno, for me, it reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton, who dealt with similar malaise. I mean, from my pov, I voted Bill and got an adulthood of DADT, which just recently got undone last month. I also did not believe the promise to abolish it, since that's how we ended up with DADT in the first place.

I do think that whether Obama or Hillary were the nominee that won, we'd be seeing the same vile, petulant behavior from the rightwing, just with different vocabulary words. The first woman, whoever it is, will have to deal with the same crud, even if it's one of theirs.

162 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:31:48am

re: #158 Coracle

I imagine the capitol will be moving six feet down soon enough.

From your lips to God's ears.

163 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:35:26am

re: #160 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm not gonna pull a wingnut and claim he hasn't accomplished anything. My gripe is with his not making an effort to get this stuff out there to public. Instead, the stimulus has been labeled by the press as "failed," the ACA has been boiled down to "death panels" and the individual mandate, and items like DADT were lost in the pre-Christmas rush.

I agree and have stated as such in the past. I've also stated my beef with the septuagenarian Democratic leadership on the Hill with regards to the ever muted Reid and Pelosi.

164 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:36:10am

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

Speaking of creating a good business environment, NYS has decided to clawback millions of dollars in job incentives to companies that failed to keep up their side of the bargain.

These companies got millions of dollars in order to remain in Lower Manhattan or to expand job opportunities in Lower Manhattan, and instead took the money and thought they could relocate elsewhere.

Sorry, but Tax and Finance got on their case, and they've had to cough up monies that were given.

This is a far more prudent method of dealing with tax incentives - but I don't think they go quite far enough. There should be penalties in addition to clawback if these companies don't meet the incentive requirements.

165 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:36:22am

re: #163 Gus 802

I agree and have stated as such in the past. I've also stated my beef with the septuagenarian Democratic leadership on the Hill with regards to the ever muted Reid and Pelosi.

...damnit, get out of my head!

//

166 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:37:55am

I promised Zedushka on our anniversary that I would make "little pies" to commemorate little blueberry tarts that we had on our honeymoon.

I will post "Pie Day!" pictures of the finished results, but instead of just blueberries I think I will use a cheesecake filling and then a topping of mixed berries and kiwi.

167 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:38:58am

re: #146 RogueOne

It can potentially lead to job creation since shutdowns require specialized jobs - mitigating environmental hazards, etc., plus it spurs new construction of power plants or installation of scrubbers.

It's not as clear cut as saying that the regs would be a job killer. If you're working at one of the dirty coal power plants, yeah, you might see your job get cut, but if you're someone who installs high tech scrubbers, you might see more business as companies comply.

168 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:39:24am

re: #159 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"We are gathering our strength in one town, while our enemies are forced to spread out throughout the rest of the country!"

He needs to hire Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf.

169 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:39:45am

re: #165 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

...damnit, get out of my head!

//

I think a butterfly pushes more air than when Reid speaks. And Pelosi sounds like she's doing a Thurston Howell imitation when she speaks. Time for them to go. The Democrats need some younger firebrands on the Hill. ;)

170 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:40:32am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

He wont surrender ... again... Again? When did he surrender the first time?

But he'd rather see the country burn than give up the ghost of remaining the dictator in charge.

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:41:00am
172 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:41:24am

re: #169 Gus 802

I think a butterfly pushes more air than when Reid speaks. And Pelosi sounds like she doing a Thurston Howell imitation when she speaks. Time for them to go. The Democrats need some younger firebrands on the Hill. ;)

Indeed they do. Which is what so disappointed me about Weiner's actions. He had the opportunity to be a major force in the party, but blew it all away. Oy.

173 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:41:30am

re: #59 iossarian

I think "dems" should buy themselves as much heroin as they can, inject it, and watch porn while they die (female dems can choose another viewing option if they prefer).

hahahahahahahaha

174 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:42:20am

re: #173 WindUpBird

hahahahahahahaha

I thought it was funny. That was the idea no?

175 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:43:16am

re: #174 Gus 802

I thought it was funny. That was the idea no?

It was. Sometimes you just have to laugh.

176 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:43:18am

re: #161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

No, that part of the post wasn't against you, sorry if you took it that way. Dunno, for me, it reminds me a lot of Bill Clinton, who dealt with similar malaise. I mean, from my pov, I voted Bill and got an adulthood of DADT, which just recently got undone last month. I also did not believe the promise to abolish it, since that's how we ended up with DADT in the first place.

I do think that whether Obama or Hillary were the nominee that won, we'd be seeing the same vile, petulant behavior from the rightwing, just with different vocabulary words. The first woman, whoever it is, will have to deal with the same crud, even if it's one of theirs.

yeah, I don't believe for a second this would be any different with Hillary, the haterade has been steeping on HRC for over a decade

177 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:43:44am

re: #171 EmmmieG

How can you be against Norman Rockwell?

Heh nice. Mine as I pointed out on the big thread is still "Coming and Going (outing)."

178 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:43:48am

re: #174 Gus 802

I thought it was funny. That was the idea no?

I'm stealing it for later

179 jaunte  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:44:11am

Smog standards canceled; job outlook for respiratory therapists improves.

Much faster than average growth is projected for respiratory therapists. Job opportunities should be very good.

Employment change. Employment of respiratory therapists is expected to grow by 21 percent from 2008 to 2018, much faster than the average for all occupations. The increasing demand will come from substantial growth in the middle-aged and elderly population—a development that will heighten the incidence of cardiopulmonary disease. Growth in demand also will result from the expanding role of respiratory therapists in case management, disease prevention, emergency care, and the early detection of pulmonary disorders.

Older Americans suffer most from respiratory ailments and cardiopulmonary diseases, such as pneumonia, chronic bronchitis, emphysema, and heart disease. As the number of older persons increases, the need for respiratory therapists is expected to increase as well. In addition, advances in inhalable medications and in the treatment of lung transplant patients, heart attack and accident victims, and premature infants—many of whom depend on a ventilator during part of their treatment—will increase the demand for the services of respiratory care practitioners.[Link: www.bls.gov...]

180 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:44:26am

re: #176 WindUpBird

yeah, I don't believe for a second this would be any different with Hillary, the haterade has been steeping on HRC for over a decade

Two full ones next year. Decades this is of rabid Clinton hate.

181 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:44:47am

re: #171 EmmmieG

Rockwell was a virtuoso's virtuoso with his drawing and painting skills, in my line of work, he's pretty much a supernatural entity

182 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:45:29am

re: #171 EmmmieG

How can you be against Norman Rockwell?

Rockwell rocks!

183 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:45:51am

re: #181 WindUpBird

Rockwell was a virtuoso's virtuoso with his drawing and painting skills, in my line of work, he's pretty much a supernatural entity

Not to mention arrangement, and everything serving the intent of the image.

184 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:46:30am

The great thing Rockwell does is paint stories and fill the imagination of the viewer. I like him the same way I do a great storyteller or songwriter.

185 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:47:00am

re: #177 HappyWarrior

Heh nice. Mine as I pointed out on the big thread is still "Coming and Going (outing)."

I love the Grandma in the back that doesn't change.

186 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:47:40am

re: #181 WindUpBird

Rockwell was a virtuoso's virtuoso with his drawing and painting skills, in my line of work, he's pretty much a supernatural entity

Hey. Thought of you when I saw this...

[Link: www.wacom.com...]

187 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:47:50am

re: #181 WindUpBird

Rockwell was a virtuoso's virtuoso with his drawing and painting skills, in my line of work, he's pretty much a supernatural entity

I love the way he takes your heart, twists it into any shape he pleases, and hands it back to you.

188 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:48:49am

re: #183 iossarian

Not to mention arrangement, and everything serving the intent of the image.

yeah, composition is key, especially when he gets tricky: Image: 61003.jpg

189 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:49:11am

The 'Obama is gonna take your guitars' hype just keeps on comin'...

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

Henry J took his case to Glenn Beck yesterday. Lots of 'jack-booted thug' talk on the guitar forums today.

Gullible knuckleheads.

190 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:49:44am

re: #171 EmmmieG

How can you be against Norman [Link: www.art.com...]

Anything's possible when one has drunk the Wingnut Koolaid™.

191 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:49:46am

re: #182 Alouette

The Norman Rockwell Museum.
Museum officials meeting with President Obama and the painting in question:

During the afternoon meeting, the President showed his guests an original copy of The Emancipation Proclamation signed by President Abraham Lincoln, hanging in the Oval Office over a bronze bust of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. In the same room, the group viewed Rockwell’s original painting of the Statue of Liberty, painted for the July 6, 1946 cover of The Saturday Evening Post, and donated to the White House in 1994 by film director Steven Spielberg, who also serves on the Museum’s Board of Trustees.

The Problem We All Live With will be on view at the White House through October 31, hanging right outside of the Oval Office, and adjacent to another series of original Rockwells on display: 1943′s So You Want to See the President. “We did,” says Norton Moffatt. “It’s an experience I will always remember.”

192 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:49:57am

re: #151 HappyWarrior

The worst part was when she compared it to Mohammad Alta. Yeah a little girl who just wanted to get treated as a fellow human being by her peers is exactly the same as the man who led the plan to murder thousands of Americans. I wonder how people with that kind of madness get published in the first place.

It is the same to them. Breivik/zero sum gamt/dhimmitude mentality - government is by and for us, and us only. If the government no longer lets us impose our 2-tiered society on others, we're being discriminated against. Poor us!

It's just like the racist democrat party telling the Republican MLK he can't do whatever he wants whenever he wants to to whoever he pleases...oh wait..

193 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:50:30am

re: #186 Gus 802

Hey. Thought of you when I saw this...

[Link: www.wacom.com...]

The Inkling! Already planning on buying one

Sometimes, it's nice to take the art to a bar to work on, and now I can vectorize linework over pints

Thanks Wacom! Helping me imbibe!

194 Killgore Trout  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:51:24am

re: #189 makeitstop

The 'Obama is gonna take your guitars' hype just keeps on comin'...

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

Henry J took his case to Glenn Beck yesterday. Lots of 'jack-booted thug' talk on the guitar forums today.

Gullible knuckleheads.

Yeah, I finally looked into that yesterday. Gibson has been in trouble for years for knowingly imported illegally harvested timber.

195 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:51:37am

re: #171 EmmmieG

How can you be against Norman Rockwell?

If they thought they could get away with putting Mother Theresa in their n*****-lover category, they would rail against her, too.

196 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:51:47am

re: #189 makeitstop

The 'Obama is gonna take your guitars' hype just keeps on comin'...

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

Henry J took his case to Glenn Beck yesterday. Lots of 'jack-booted thug' talk on the guitar forums today.

Gullible knuckleheads.

I'm pretty sure the touring-out-of-the-country-with-a-vintage-guitar demographic isn't going to turn the tide in an election :D

197 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:52:12am

re: #190 Gus 802

Anything's possible when one has drunk the Wingnut Koolaid™.

Apparently, but damn, it's ROCKWELL.

198 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:52:31am

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, but damn, it's ROCKWELL.

It's like hating apple pie. Only worse.

199 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:24am

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, but damn, it's ROCKWELL.

No one is safe from the Wingnut scourge. We've seen this already with Helen Keller and others. Glenn Beck started this trend. OK. It was probably the John Birch Society.

200 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:32am

re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist

Apparently, but damn, it's ROCKWELL.

That's me too, he's THE American Illustrator, he defines the genre, it's like wingnuts saying that apple pie is a socialist plot :D


basically, we get to sit on the bleachers and observe how easily it is to bend weak minds, here! ON THE INTERNET

201 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:47am

re: #198 EmmmieG

It's like hating apple pie. Only worse.

jinx :-(

202 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:51am

re: #176 WindUpBird

yeah, I don't believe for a second this would be any different with Hillary, the haterade has been steeping on HRC for over a decade

Lol make it two. They've never forgiven her for wearing pants and not making enough cookies.

203 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:59am

re: #198 EmmmieG

It's like hating apple pie. Only worse.

It's downright un-American!

204 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:59am

re: #185 EmmmieG

I love the Grandma in the back that doesn't change.

Yep, that's my favorite part too and the father is wearing a floppy hat so he reminds me of my Dad. I always like to picture they went to the shore but that's the fun of Rockwell, everyone can come up with their own conclusions. His fun ones are just as powerful as his more political ones like the one discussed here as well as the famous Four Freedoms poster. For some reason, I always imagined an old time actor like Henry Fonda for the freedom of speech one. PRobably because I saw him in 12 Angry Men and know he was a bigtime liberal in his life.

205 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:53:59am

My dad was an artist. Obviously not on the same level as Rockwell, but he was an admirer of Rockwell and loved the concept of "paintings that tell a story."

Here's one of his sports paintings that "tell a story."

206 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:54:31am

re: #203 Gus 802

It's downright un-American!

Its like letting poor people vote!

207 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:54:37am

re: #199 Gus 802

No one is safe from the Wingnut scourge. We've seen this already with Helen Keller and others. Glenn Beck started this trend. OK. It was probably the John Birch Society.

What have we learned? That you can't get rid of the JBS, because there will always be JBS types in America, even in 2011

208 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:54:44am

re: #196 WindUpBird

I'm pretty sure the touring-out-of-the-country-with-a-vintage-guitar demographic isn't going to turn the tide in an election :D

The guys I know that are touring out of the country have been leaving the good stuff in the locker since 9/11. They take guitars that won't break their heart if the neck gets snapped instead.

But boy oh boy, Henry J is really spinning the crap out of this. All of a sudden all my 'non-political' guitar playing friends are ready to fix bayonets and man the barricades.

Fucking craziness.

209 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:55:05am

re: #202 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Lol make it two. They've never forgiven her for wearing pants and not making enough cookies.

Gahhh it's funny because it's true

210 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:55:10am

re: #189 makeitstop

The 'Obama is gonna take your guitars' hype just keeps on comin'...

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

Henry J took his case to Glenn Beck yesterday. Lots of 'jack-booted thug' talk on the guitar forums today.

Gullible knuckleheads.

Yeah, I heard that at work yesterday from a customer. He asked us, out loud, if we knew how much of a "police state" we lived in, before beginning his lament about Gibson. I just rolled my eyes and went back to work, because when you start your argument that way, it's already obvious that you're not interested in anything but agreement from the other party.

211 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:55:39am

re: #196 WindUpBird

I'm pretty sure the touring-out-of-the-country-with-a-vintage-guitar demographic isn't going to turn the tide in an election :D

I would pit that crowd against the "furry-art-creating-in-bars" gang any day.

212 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:55:49am

re: #205 Alouette

My dad was an artist. Obviously not on the same level as Rockwell, but he was an admirer of Rockwell and loved the concept of "paintings that tell a story."

Here's one of his sports paintings that "tell a story."

paintings that tell stories! ^_^;

213 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:57:11am

re: #210 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I heard that at work yesterday from a customer. He asked us, out loud, if we knew how much of a "police state" we lived in, before beginning his lament about Gibson. I just rolled my eyes and went back to work, because when you start your argument that way, it's already obvious that you're not interested in anything but agreement from the other party.

Next they'll tell us that OUR AMERICAN CHEVROLET CAMAROS, AN AMERICAN INSTITUTION OF AMERICA THAT JESUS ONCE DROVE....ARE BEING REGULATED BY THE GOVERNMENT

214 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:57:45am

re: #212 WindUpBird

paintings that tell stories! ^_^;

What do you think of the new jeans-and-boots Superman?

215 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:57:58am

I liked Rockwell's baseball ones that he did. There's a very prominent one called the rookie that I like.
Image: File:Norman_Rockwell_-_The_Rookie.jpg
Speaking of baseball, I've actually used that as the setting for the first short story I'm writing. The climax is actually inspired by a real life incident.

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:58:20am

re: #211 iossarian

I would pit that crowd against the "furry-art-creating-in-bars" gang any day.

I'll have you know we fill ENTIRE HOTEL SUITES :D

217 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:58:29am

re: #189 makeitstop

The 'Obama is gonna take your guitars' hype just keeps on comin'...

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

Henry J took his case to Glenn Beck yesterday. Lots of 'jack-booted thug' talk on the guitar forums today.

Gullible knuckleheads.

The Gibson Les Paul model will be renamed the Ron Paul model, the Gibson SG will from now on stand for "Secessionist Governor" model, and the Humbucker pickups will be renamed the "Global Warming is Humbug-er" pickups.

218 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:59:21am

re: #210 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I heard that at work yesterday from a customer. He asked us, out loud, if we knew how much of a "police state" we lived in, before beginning his lament about Gibson. I just rolled my eyes and went back to work, because when you start your argument that way, it's already obvious that you're not interested in anything but agreement from the other party.

I've tried explaining to some of them that the Feds would have to drop everything else and focus exclusively on guitar-confiscating duties, but they all seem to think that Obama will donate unlimited manpower and resources to come and take away their Les Pauls.

It's the whole 'taking your guns' thing redux.

219 Targetpractice  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 11:59:56am

re: #213 WindUpBird

Next they'll tell us that OUR AMERICAN CHEVROLET CAMAROS, AN AMERICAN INSTITUTION OF AMERICA THAT JESUS ONCE DROVE...ARE BEING REGULATED BY THE GOVERNMENT

Yeah, nothing ever amuses me as much as people who suddenly run into obscure regs they knew nothing about, get irate, and start realizing all the regs they've made do with day after day are suddenly a sign of "big government"!

220 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:00:28pm

re: #217 ralphieboy

The Gibson Les Paul model will be renamed the Ron Paul model, the Gibson SG will from now on stand for "Secessionist Governor" model, and the Humbucker pickups will be renamed the "Global Warming is Humbug-er" pickups.

I'm SO stealing that.

221 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:00:55pm

re: #220 makeitstop

I'm SO stealing that.

Just credit it...

222 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:00:56pm

re: #214 Alouette

What do you think of the new jeans-and-boots Superman?

KILL IT WITH KRYPTONIAN FIRE!

223 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:01:17pm

re: #214 Alouette

What do you think of the new jeans-and-boots Superman?

i'm a bad person to ask, because I never was a DC fan, never cared about Batman (besides Frank Miller) or Superman (I liked Superman 2 because ZOD), but if they're trying to angle the brand so that it's relevant to a different demo, hey, whatever, I guess it's a good move, and superhero books always need to stir up controversy every so often

Ask me about the New Mutants or Sandman (Vertigo is DC, but also not DC) or the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, those I can wax annoying on ^^

224 iossarian  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:02:06pm

OK, comrades, I'm out of here. Things to clear up before the long weekend.

Remember, it's not "boss day" or "shareholder day".

It's kick-back-and-enjoy-the-fruits-of-your-LABOR day.

Peace.

225 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:02:29pm

re: #218 makeitstop

re: #219 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

re: #213 WindUpBird

All of it's confederate talk, afaic.

226 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:03:03pm

re: #222 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

KILL IT WITH KRYPTONIAN FIRE!

My favorite DC character is "Batzarro"

227 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:05:26pm

Just another thought:

They should do a remake of "The Hebrew Hammer" and pit HH against "Foreskin Man." Andy Dick, who played Damien Santa in the original HH, can be Miles Hastwick. I don't know who should be HH, as long as it's not Adam Sandler.

228 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:05:59pm

re: #224 iossarian

OK, comrades, I'm out of here. Things to clear up before the long weekend.

Remember, it's not "boss day" or "shareholder day".

It's kick-back-and-enjoy-the-fruits-of-your-LABOR day.

Peace.

Or as Glen Beck would be quick to point out to all of us, labor UNION day!

DUN-DUN-DUNNNNN!

229 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:06:16pm

re: #214 Alouette

What do you think of the new jeans-and-boots Superman?

Well,, he DID live on a farm

[Link: smallville.wikia.com...]

230 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:06:58pm

re: #226 WindUpBird

My favorite DC character is "Batzarro"

I liked "Batmanuel".

231 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:08:05pm

re: #227 Alouette

Just another thought:

They should do a remake of "The Hebrew Hammer" and pit HH against "Foreskin Man." Andy Dick, who played Damien Santa in the original HH, can be Miles Hastwick. I don't know who should be HH, as long as it's not Adam Sandler.

Which means it will be Adam Sandler.

232 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:08:22pm

re: #230 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I liked "Batmanuel".

hahahah YEAH

The Tick cartoon and Venture Bros, JP wrote both

233 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:08:30pm

re: #214 Alouette

What do you think of the new jeans-and-boots Superman?

That's supposed to be Superman when hes a teenager and just starting to figure out his potential. It's more realistic that he wouldn't have a specially made suit when he's just getting started.

234 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:08:31pm

re: #217 ralphieboy

The Gibson Les Paul model will be renamed the Ron Paul model, the Gibson SG will from now on stand for "Secessionist Governor" model, and the Humbucker pickups will be renamed the "Global Warming is Humbug-er" pickups.

...

FREEBIRD!!11ty

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:08:47pm

re: #231 EmmmieG

Which means it will be Adam Sandler.

Lewis Black

236 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:09:57pm

re: #189 makeitstop

The 'Obama is gonna take your guitars' hype just keeps on comin'...

How to Turn Guitarists Into Tea Partiers: Take Their Gibsons Away

Henry J took his case to Glenn Beck yesterday. Lots of 'jack-booted thug' talk on the guitar forums today.

Gullible knuckleheads.

If you really want to drive them insane, assert matter-of-factly that there is no real difference between maple, rosewood, and ebony for fretboards.

237 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:10:31pm

So. Does this mean the wingnuts are going to boycott Labor [Union] Day weekend and work through the whole weekend and holday?

//

238 jamesfirecat  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:12:07pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

Lewis Black

Jon Stewart.

239 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:12:09pm

Don Cheadle is...

CAPTAIN PLANET!!!

240 Jack Burton  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:12:18pm

re: #237 Gus 802

So. Does this mean the wingnuts are going to boycott Labor [Union] Day weekend and work through the whole weekend and holday?

//

Labor Day in the US isn't on May Day like those Goddamned Communist Heathens, so it's different.

241 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:13:20pm

re: #237 Gus 802

So. Does this mean the wingnuts are going to boycott Labor [Union] Day weekend and work through the whole weekend and holday?

//

Not a wingnut (I don't think) ((some here would disagree))

BUT

I'm working Sunday morning from midnight tlll noon, go back in Sunday night at 10 p.m. and don't finish till (at least) noon Monday!!

((someone save me a hot dog from their BBQ please))

242 Big Steve  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:13:37pm

re: #233 ArchangelMichael

well then superman when he is older..... [Link: www.smbc-comics.com...]

243 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:14:12pm

re: #235 WindUpBird

Lewis Black

Eli Roth!

244 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:16:59pm

re: #231 EmmmieG

Which means it will be Adam Sandler.

Adam Sandler is not my favorite actor by a long stretch, but he has a knack for creating overtly Jewish roles that go beyond the set Hollywood stereotypes. "Eight Crazy Nights" and God help us all, "Don't Mess WIth The Zohan" are things other, er, artists, couldn't have made happen.

245 Virginia Plain  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:17:07pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don Cheadle is...

CAPTAIN PLANET!!!

[Video]

LMAO. Don't mess with the green and blue man, or he'll turn you into a tree.

246 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:17:29pm

Since when does Hollywood care about accuracy? The Hebrew Hammer will be played by Chris Hemsworth or Jake Gyllenhaal because the studio heads think that they can "open" a movie.

247 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:20:07pm

re: #246 EmmmieG

Since when does Hollywood care about accuracy? The Hebrew Hammer will be played by Chris Hemsworth or Jake Gyllenhaal because the studio heads think that they can "open" a movie.

Boy, you hit the nail on the head with that one! ;-)

248 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:20:52pm

re: #245 Virginia Plain

LMAO. Don't mess with the green and blue man, or he'll turn you into a tree.

HUMAN TREE!

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:21:27pm

re: #246 EmmmieG

Since when does Hollywood care about accuracy? The Hebrew Hammer will be played by Chris Hemsworth or Jake Gyllenhaal because the studio heads think that they can "open" a movie.

David Krumholtz? I'd like to see him do something besides genius geek.

250 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:21:52pm

re: #244 SanFranciscoZionist

Adam Sandler is not my favorite actor by a long stretch, but he has a knack for creating overtly Jewish roles that go beyond the set Hollywood stereotypes. "Eight Crazy Nights" and God help us all, "Don't Mess WIth The Zohan" are things other, er, artists, couldn't have made happen.

Zohan was Teh Suck.

251 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:22:49pm

re: #249 SanFranciscoZionist

David Krumholtz? I'd like to see him do something besides genius geek.

Me too, but he does it so well! I love Numbers... one of my favorites ever!

252 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:22:59pm

re: #250 Alouette

Zohan was Teh Suck.

I did like the running gag with the hummus.

253 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:24:15pm

re: #252 SanFranciscoZionist

I did like the running gag with the hummus.

"Tribe" hummus paid for product placement. Their hummus SUCKS. Sabra rocks!

254 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:24:16pm

3,000 Pair of Panties Found Along Ohio Highway

[Link: www.kspr.com...]

ummm,,,, eeerrrrr

255 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:25:00pm

BREAKING NEWS!

Bavaria: Fugitive German cow Yvonne gives herself up

A cow called Yvonne who made headlines in Germany has given herself up after three months on the run.

Yvonne escaped from a farm in Bavaria, just before she would have been sent for slaughter. Efforts to recapture her failed and she roamed free in forests.

But after finally turning up again on Thursday, the future is looking bright for the daring six-year-old dairy cow.

Moooooo!

256 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:25:38pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

3,000 Pair of Panties Found Along Ohio Highway

[Link: www.kspr.com...]

ummm,,, eeerrr

Only you Dude, only you!

257 Kragar  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:26:04pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

3,000 Pair of Panties Found Along Ohio Highway

[Link: www.kspr.com...]

ummm,,, eeerrr

That will teach me to announce an appearance ahead of time.

258 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:26:24pm

re: #255 Gus 802

BREAKING NEWS!

Bavaria: Fugitive German cow Yvonne gives herself up

Mooo!

Wow ,, she was on the LAMb for a long time

She must have turned CHICKEN, turning herself in like that

I wonder if she'll have to PONY up money for the fine

259 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:26:27pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

3,000 Pair of Panties Found Along Ohio Highway

[Link: www.kspr.com...]

ummm,,, eeerrr

Why do they call them a pair if it's only one?

//

260 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:27:05pm

re: #255 Gus 802

BREAKING NEWS!

Bavaria: Fugitive German cow Yvonne gives herself up

Mooo!

Roam free with the buffalo, or die!

261 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:27:06pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

3,000 Pair of Panties Found Along Ohio Highway

[Link: www.kspr.com...]

ummm,,, eeerrr

Led Zeppelin tour bus left the windows open?

262 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:27:12pm

re: #256 Dragon_Lady

Only you Dude, only you!

HEY ,, they're not MINE

Although,, , if you want, I can go door to door trying to find whose they are!!!

263 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:28:41pm

re: #260 Alouette

Roam free with the buffalo, or die!

[Video]

Funny stuff.

264 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:28:43pm

re: #262 sattv4u2

HEY ,, they're not MINE

Although,, , if you want, I can go door to door trying to find whose they are!!!

And love every minute of it I'm sure! ;-P

265 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:28:44pm

re: #255 Gus 802

BREAKING NEWS!

Bavaria: Fugitive German cow Yvonne gives herself up

Mooo!

Somewhere, there's a joke having to do with escaping from a German death factory, but I can't quite find it.

266 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:31:16pm

North Branch Girl, 5, Suffers Bat Bite At Wal-Mart

[Link: minnesota.cbslocal.com...]

The bat flew down the pizza aisle, flew back at us, flew down and landed on her, attacking her and bit her leg,” said Holly.

heh,,, the Wal Marts near me only have bats in the sporting good section!!

267 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:31:24pm

re: #240 ArchangelMichael

Labor Day used to be a meaningful holiday until those secular liberals took it away from the honest American worker and turned it into just another 3-day weekend celebrating hedonism and debachery.

268 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:31:31pm

re: #254 sattv4u2

3,000 Pair of Panties Found Along Ohio Highway

[Link: www.kspr.com...]

ummm,,, eeerrr

Kinda reminds me of one of those so called artist exhibits you see out in the middle of fields, or parks, or malls. Kinda... ya know?

269 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:31:48pm

re: #255 Gus 802

BREAKING NEWS!

Bavaria: Fugitive German cow Yvonne gives herself up

Mooo!

Do we want to let Yvonne have babies? She sounds smart, and I'm not sure we want to raise the average IQs of cows worldwide.

We could end up with Planet of the Cows, and that would be...just no.

270 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:33:01pm

re: #268 Dragon_Lady

Kinda reminds me of one of those so called artist exhibits you see out in the middle of fields, or parks, or malls. Kinda... ya know?

No

Can you give me directions to said field/park/mall

And more important, what is the contributing artist going to "show" next !?!?!

////

271 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:33:15pm

re: #239 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don Cheadle as War Machine (and doesn't Terrance Howard feel left out of not being able to wear the suit).

272 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:33:17pm

re: #266 sattv4u2

North Branch Girl, 5, Suffers Bat Bite At Wal-Mart

[Link: minnesota.cbslocal.com...]

The bat flew down the pizza aisle, flew back at us, flew down and landed on her, attacking her and bit her leg,” said Holly.

heh,,, the Wal Marts near me only have bats in the sporting good section!!

How soon until the "Bats of Walmart" video hits the intertubes?

273 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:33:18pm

re: #269 EmmmieG

Do we want to let Yvonne have babies? She sounds smart, and I'm not sure we want to raise the average IQs of cows worldwide.

We could end up with Planet of the Cows, and that would be...just no.

Her new home...

[Link: www.gut-aiderbichl.com...]

274 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:33:34pm

re: #266 sattv4u2

heh,,, the Wal Marts near me only have bats in the sporting good section!!

There's definitely a 'People of Wal-Mart' joke in there somewhere.

275 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:34:35pm

re: #272 oaktree

How soon until the "Bats of Walmart" video hits the intertubes?

Funny you should ask

[Link: www.engadget.com...]

276 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:35:09pm

I am so horrible. My sister just "liked" fasting and prayer for our 18 yr old daughter who desperatly needs a kidney, and my first thought was that she needs a spellchecker, too.

I will now go and do penance. (It's not my niece that needs a kidney. My sister was an English major.)

277 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:36:43pm

re: #259 Gus 802

Why do they call them a pair if it's only one?

//

Check out an issue of Vogue or Elle sometime. They constantly refer to the latest "Givenchy pant" or "the Prada shoe for September", and "the Jacob Jingelheimer sock" and "the Dieter Rumpelforeskin glove" and other nonsense. I'm sure there's a "Beatrix Pretentia panty" out there somewhere.

278 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:37:11pm

re: #275 sattv4u2

Funny you should ask

[Link: www.engadget.com...]

I like the explanation that it was Dracula's third cousin twice removed who emigrated to the Ozarks in 1850. He was just looking for the blood aisle and got confused...

279 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:39:14pm

Woman's breast implant explodes during paintball
[Link: www.latimes.com...]

A British woman's breast implant reportedly exploded after she was hit in the chest by a paintball, which can travel at 190 mph.

UK Paintball has now adjusted its policies accordingly. "We respectfully ask that any ladies with surgical breast implants notify our team at the time of booking," according to a statement on its website. "You will be given special information on the dangers of paintballing with enhanced boobs and asked to sign a disclaimer."

Just wait, it gets better: "You will also be issued with extra padding to protect your implants while paintballing," the statement says.

280 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:39:17pm

Sorry if this has already been posted about:

There is quite a dust-up taking place in response to an editor resigning for having allowed a paper by Roy Spencer to be published.

[Link: www.mdpi.com...]

Taking Responsibility on Publishing the Controversial Paper “On the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balance” by Spencer and Braswell, Remote Sens. 2011, 3(8), 1603-1613

Peer-reviewed journals are a pillar of modern science. Their aim is to achieve highest scientific standards by carrying out a rigorous peer review that is, as a minimum requirement, supposed to be able to identify fundamental methodological errors or false claims. Unfortunately, as many climate researchers and engaged observers of the climate change debate pointed out in various internet discussion fora, the paper by Spencer and Braswell [1] that was recently published in Remote Sensing is most likely problematic in both aspects and should therefore not have been published.

After having become aware of the situation, and studying the various pro and contra arguments, I agree with the critics of the paper. Therefore, I would like to take the responsibility for this editorial decision and, as a result, step down as Editor-in-Chief of the journal Remote Sensing.

With this step I would also like to personally protest against how the authors and like-minded climate sceptics have much exaggerated the paper’s conclusions in public statements, e.g., in a press release of The University of Alabama in Huntsville from 27 July 2011 [2], the main author’s personal homepage [3], the story “New NASA data blow gaping hole in global warming alarmism” published by Forbes [4], and the story “Does NASA data show global warming lost in space?” published by Fox News [5], to name just a few. Unfortunately, their campaign apparently was very successful as witnessed by the over 56,000 downloads of the full paper within only one month after its publication. But trying to refute all scientific insights into the global warming phenomenon just based on the comparison of one particular observational satellite data set with model predictions is strictly impossible. Aside from ignoring all the other observational data sets (such as the rapidly shrinking sea ice extent and changes in the flora and fauna) and contrasting theoretical studies, such a simple conclusion simply cannot be drawn considering the complexity of the involved models and satellite measurements.

The political views of the authors and the thematic goal of their study did, of course, alone not disqualify the paper from entering the review process in the journal Remote Sensing. As I stated in my editorial at the launch of this new open access journal [6] one of the premier goals of remote sensing as a discipline is to better understand physical and biological processes on our planet Earth. The use of satellite data to check the functionality of all sorts of geophysical models is therefore a very important part of our work. But it should not be done in isolation by the remote sensing scientists. Interdisciplinary cooperation with modelers is required in order to develop a joint understanding of where and why models deviate from satellite data. Only through this close cooperation the complex aspects involved in the satellite retrievals and the modeling processes can be properly taken into account.

282 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:41:25pm

re: #280 Talking Point Detective

Hmm, I can't even try to read that post until my new bifocals come in! I'll have to wait on that one I'm afraid... :-(

283 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:43:34pm

re: #279 sattv4u2

"You will also be issued with extra padding to protect your implants while paintballing,"

Isn't that redundant!?!?

//

284 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:46:41pm

re: #282 Dragon_Lady

Hmm, I can't even try to read that post until my new bifocals come in! I'll have to wait on that one I'm afraid... :-(

Here's a summary. A leading "skeptic" climate scientist - one of those promoted by "skeptics" as proof that there is valid scientific controversy about AGW - published a paper.

Subsequent to it being published, there was much questioning about the paper - both because of fairly apparent political influences on the part of the author, but also because ”fundamental methodological errors” and “false claims.”

The editor of the journal, in response to the subsequent analysis of the paper, resigned because of his failure to conduct his duties thoroughly (by virtue of publishing the paper).

Hope that helps.

285 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:46:56pm

re: #243 Alouette

Eli Roth!

I love me some Eli Roth, that guy kicks ass

THANKSGIVING

286 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:49:25pm

re: #285 WindUpBird

I love me some Eli Roth, that guy kicks ass

THANKSGIVING

Didn't recognize the name

Just looked at his credits
[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Still don't recognize him!

287 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:49:38pm

re: #284 Talking Point Detective

Here's a summary. A leading "skeptic" climate scientist - one of those promoted by "skeptics" as proof that there is valid scientific controversy about AGW - published a paper.

Subsequent to it being published, there was much questioning about the paper - both because of fairly apparent political influences on the part of the author, but also because ”fundamental methodological errors” and “false claims.”

The editor of the journal, in response to the subsequent analysis of the paper, resigned because of his failure to conduct his duties thoroughly (by virtue of publishing the paper).

Hope that helps.

Yup, that helps a lot! Thank you for the synopsis!
Can't wait for the new eyes. I'm so tired of trying to read small stuff by shoving my nose so close to the object! It looks silly as heck, not to mention I have to get close to things I'd rather not be that close too...

288 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:50:48pm

re: #287 Dragon_Lady

Yup, that helps a lot! Thank you for the synopsis!
Can't wait for the new eyes. I'm so tired of trying to read small stuff by shoving my nose so close to the object! It looks silly as heck, not to mention I have to get close to things I'd rather not be that close too...

ESPECIALLY when someone says READ MY LIPS!!

289 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:51:41pm

re: #147 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm not calling on the man to be a socialist, I'm not calling on him to be a moonbat. I'm just calling on him to grow a spine, show us that charisma that carried him so far back in '08. Give me a reason to vote for him, rather than against the GOP.

Reasons are reasons. Spine and charisma in the eyes of the dedicated left might equate to intransigent dreamer in the eyes of swing voters. If you think he's right, and doing something, on key issues, then you have to cut him some slack on secondary issues. He cannot do anything about the key issues come 2014 if he loses the 2012 election.

290 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:52:12pm

I probably not as upset about this as I should be.

So we wait a while to implement new standards. How do our current standards compare to China?

Aren't we still leading the world--as far as major powers are concerned?

291 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:52:43pm
292 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:55:14pm

re: #291 Gus 802

Same animal sanctuary.

Winter auf Gut Aiderbichl am 16.12.2010

[Video]

All I can say about that is that I want snow, and lots of it, for many consecutive months, starting right..... now.

293 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:55:37pm

re: #291 Gus 802

Same animal sanctuary.

Winter auf Gut Aiderbichl am 16.12.2010

[Video]

Do you think the horses get to choose the music they're frollicking too??

294 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:56:53pm

re: #291 Gus 802

Same animal sanctuary.

Winter auf Gut Aiderbichl am 16.12.2010

[Video]

Ruh roh ,,, theres a pigeon

There goes the neighborhood!

295 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:57:14pm

re: #293 sattv4u2

Do you think the horses get to choose the music they're frollicking too??

THose look like Irish Draught Horses in the beginning. I used to ride one for lessons.

Black Labrador of horses.

296 Gus  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:57:27pm

re: #293 sattv4u2

Do you think the horses get to choose the music they're frollicking too??

Yeah, it's a little goofy on the music end but I still got choked up.

297 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:57:32pm

re: #288 sattv4u2

ESPECIALLY when someone says READ MY LIPS!!

Well, I was thinking more along the line of my cat overlords bum... Some how she got hold of one of my rubber hair bands and chewed it in half then swallowed it. She started acting like she had a hairball stuck but I couldn't quite tell what it was cause it was so thin. Sooo, consequently I had to take my glasses off and bend a little closer to her bum than is mentally comfortable for me to see what the heck it was wishing vehemently the whole time for my new glasses. Not one of my finer moments, may I add. As it turned out I took her to the vet to see if it could be taken out safely. She's fine btw.

298 lostlakehiker  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:57:43pm

re: #280 Talking Point Detective

Sorry if this has already been posted about:

There is quite a dust-up taking place in response to an editor resigning for having allowed a paper by Roy Spencer to be published.

[Link: www.mdpi.com...]

This is pretty important, and not already well known in this forum I think. Thanks for the update. The paper can't possibly have been both correct, and correctly interpreted among the crowing crowd of denialists. Nice to know it was just flat wrong.

There are bound to be a few genuine, honest, good scientists doing work that undermines this or that proposed stone in the scientific wall that is AGW. There ought to be. Every theory ought to be challenged as severely as the evidence will permit. When Saints are ordained, it falls someone's lot to be the devil's advocate, and argue against the proposed elevation.

Spencer, no surprise, is not one of that bunch.

His attack on AGW science has been repulsed, and there stands the science like a Stone Wall. :-;

299 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:58:12pm

re: #296 Gus 802

Yeah, it's a little goofy on the music end but I still got choked up.

I liked the four pigs at the end

Reminds, me,,, I have to hit the store and get some bacon!

300 sattv4u2  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 12:58:44pm

re: #295 ggt

THose look like Irish Draught Horses in the beginning. I used to ride one for lessons.

Black Labrador of horses.

Have them pour me a Sam Adams Boston Lager please

301 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:00:11pm

re: #287 Dragon_Lady

Yup, that helps a lot! Thank you for the synopsis!
Can't wait for the new eyes. I'm so tired of trying to read small stuff by shoving my nose so close to the object! It looks silly as heck, not to mention I have to get close to things I'd rather not be that close too...

This is actually a pretty big deal. Spencer is one of the three most heralded "skeptic" scientists.

Of course, the "skeptics" will not allow themselves to be deterred by this public discrediting of one of their mainstays. But for those in the scientific community paying attention to the debate, this is a big deal.

302 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:02:28pm

re: #301 Talking Point Detective

This is actually a pretty big deal. Spencer is one of the three most heralded "skeptic" scientists.

Of course, the "skeptics" will not allow themselves to be deterred by this public discrediting of one of their mainstays. But for those in the scientific community paying attention to the debate, this is a big deal.

BIG SCIENCE is out to get them for blowing the whistle on the plot to get more of our tax dollars to study a fraudulent boondoggle!!11!

303 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:02:56pm

re: #300 sattv4u2

Have them pour me a Sam Adams Boston Lager please

I think opossable thumbs are required for that. Although I'm sure if horse wanted beer, he'd find a way to drink it without thumbs.

304 Talking Point Detective  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:05:00pm

re: #302 oaktree

BIG SCIENCE is out to get them for blowing the whistle on the plot to get more of our tax dollars to study a fraudulent boondoggle!!11!

How'd you guess?

They've programmed macros so they don't have to type that out everytime one of their "theories debunking AGW" are blown up.

305 Donna Ballard  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:09:38pm

re: #301 Talking Point Detective

This is actually a pretty big deal. Spencer is one of the three most heralded "skeptic" scientists.

Of course, the "skeptics" will not allow themselves to be deterred by this public discrediting of one of their mainstays. But for those in the scientific community paying attention to the debate, this is a big deal.

Yeah I get that. Honestly I can see both sides of the thing, the crying wolf too often thing verses the sky if falling scenario. Just don't quite know what I can do to help with either side of it besides recycling, and trying to keep our carbon foot print as small as possible.
I do appreciate your synopsis though, the more info the better I always say...

306 blueraven  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:12:13pm

re: #138 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I gotta ask, has anybody seen the '08 Obama anywhere? Because the guy who's doing the job he should be doing isn't worth a damn. I didn't vote for the guy and I'm beginning to consider demanding a refund.

The guy you voted for in '08 has been met with the toughest economy since the 1930s and FDR. The guy you voted in '08 for has been met with the most ridiculous know nothing congress since Truman...both at the same time.
The immediate concern is to get the economy going and he is not getting much help.

307 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:16:24pm

re: #306 blueraven

The guy you voted for in '08 has been met with the toughest economy since the 1930s and FDR. The guy you voted in '08 for has been met with the most ridiculous know nothing congress since Truman...both at the same time.
The immediate concern is to get the economy going and he is not getting much help.

That guy was mostly a projection of what everyone wanted him to be. The real Obama got into office and learned a bit of reality.

I'm, personally, rather glad he has not turned-out to be the 'rock-star marxist' people thought he was. He is the regular American husband/father/politican we all expect in a POTUS. Frankly, with what he has had to deal with, I'm not disappointed in him.

308 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 1:22:50pm

re: #293 sattv4u2

Do you think the horses get to choose the music they're frollicking too??

I'm sure they did.

Image: 3756194565_67b8e911ba.jpg

309 prairiefire  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 4:30:03pm

re: #24 darthstar

Best moderate black Republican president ever.

I still like Obama, but for fuck's sake, if he wanted the GOP to run the country, he should have said "You betcha" at the debates against McCain.

Heh.

310 CarleeCork  Fri, Sep 2, 2011 9:31:56pm

re: #22 albusteve

outlaw tobacco if lungs are so important

Fuck you. Smoking is a choice, breathing is not.


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Russia’s Putin Visits Syria Airbase and Orders Start of Pullout Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered the partial withdrawal of Russian troops from Syria, during an unannounced visit there on Monday. Mr Putin was met by Syrian President Bashar Assad as he arrived at the Russian Hmeimim air base, ...
Thanos
2 days, 5 hours ago
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Orkestra Obsolete Play Blue Monday Using 1930s Instruments - BBC Arts More information: bbc.in New Order's Blue Monday was released on 7 March 1983, and its cutting-edge electronic groove changed pop music forever. But what would it have sounded like if it had been made 50 years earlier? In a ...
Thanos
3 days, 2 hours ago
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Tune-Yards - ABC 123 (Official Video) 'ABC 123' by Tune-Yards. New album 'I can feel you creep into my private life' is released January 19th 2018: smarturl.it Director: Dear Mr QuistgaardProducer: Abi Atkinson, LS ProductionsCommissioner: Gabe Spierer, Beggars GroupExec Producer: Saskia Whinney, SomesuchDOP: Deepa KeshvalaEditor: ...
Thanos
3 days, 2 hours ago
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Funding Restrictions Have Made Gun Violence Researchers Get Creative A study published Thursday concludes that a subsequent increase in gun exposure led to more accidental firearm deaths than otherwise would have occurred in the months after the school shooting. "It was the spike [in sales] itself that sort ...
Thanos
3 days, 4 hours ago
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Recycling Chaos in U.S. As China Bans ‘Foreign Waste’ Like many Portland residents, Satish and Arlene Palshikar are serious recyclers. Their house is coated with recycled bluish-white paint. They recycle their rainwater, compost their food waste and carefully separate the paper and plastic they toss out. But recently, ...
Thanos
3 days, 5 hours ago
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Trump Jerusalem Move: Tear Gas at Lebanon US Embassy Protest There have been violent clashes near the US embassy in Lebanon, in the latest protest against President Donald Trump's decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Security forces fired tear gas and water cannon to force back ...
Thanos
3 days, 5 hours ago
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Trump Says He and Trudeau Disagree on Trade Deficit. U.S. Stats Seem to Be on the PM’s SideHair Furor just can't seem to catch a break these days....Despite Trump's insistence the U.S. has a trade deficit with Canada, statistics from the website of the office of the U.S. Trade Representative -- the office handling NAFTA negotiations -- ...
The Major
3 days, 11 hours ago
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Blondie - Doom or Destiny (Official Video)Blondie performing "Doom or Destiny" from the new album "Pollinator".Out Now: blondie.lnk.to Follow Blondiefacebook.cominstagram.com@BlondieOfficial vevo.ly
Thanos
4 days, 13 hours ago
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Beth Hart & Joe Bonamassa - Black Coffee (Official Music Video) Official video for Black Coffee from the new Beth Hart & Joe Bonamassa album Black Coffee. Pre-order: smarturl.it BLACK COFFEE is available to pre-order on CD and vinyl. The limited CD box includes 2 coasters, a postcard and an ...
Thanos
4 days, 13 hours ago
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Sparks - ‘This Town Ain’t Big Enough for Both of Us’ (Live at WFUV) wfuv.org • Follow @wfuv: ow.ly Sparks (allsparks.com) performs "This Town Ain't Big Enough For Both of Us" live in Studio A. Recorded 10.12.17. Host: Darren DeVivoAudio: Jim O'HaraCameras: Dan Tuozzoli, Kristal Ho, Monica Fafaul, Alexandra Brennan and Liz CarrEditor: ...
Thanos
4 days, 14 hours ago
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